Marriage Is Just Plain Tedious

The above clip is from the movie “Slaughterhouse Five” and to quickly surmise this comical excerpt: the protagonist’s wife goes ape-shit when she finds out her husband’s plane, on way to a convention, crash lands. She frantically gets in her car and ends up killing herself while en route to the hospital. This film is a classic, so if  you get the chance I’d recommend seeing it. In the movie the wife is a chubby, and in a few different scenes she insists to her husband that she is going to lose weight but never does. But this is not to diss this woman entirely, because she genuinely loved her man. But as sweet as this woman demonstrated to be, she was simply your garden variety bag of hormones, and became completely unglued in a crisis situation.

Alright, the video is an absurd example, however, in the final analysis I contend that even under the best of circumstances, and with women who have the best of intentions, marriage is a raw deal for men.

Now I have to be honest and say that I have never been married so I cannot speak as an expert on this whereas the opinions of men who are or have been married are more qualified then mine. But I can say I have been in enough long term relationships to know that I would never want to to take that jump. One popular like-minded thinker, Fred Reed weighs in on this topic in his essay  “To Marry, Or Not? That’s Easy“. He’s happily married to a Mexicana and lives in Guadalajara so his criticisms about marriage apply in America and the Western World. And as a result of having some years on all of us, he offers good wisdom:

The question is simply, “Why marry?” As a young man full of dangerous steroids, your answer will probably be, “Ah, because her hair is like corn silk under an August moon; her lips are as rubies and her teeth, pearls; and her smile would make a dead man cry.” This amounts to, “I’m horny,” with elaborations. It is as it ought to be. The race continues because maidens are glorious, and striplings both desperate and unwise. (…) Note, incidentally, that by the time October rolls around, corn silk is shriveled and brown (…) soon she will look like a fireplug with cellulite. Once the packaging deteriorates, there had better be something to get you through the next thirty years. Usually there isn’t.

Reed’s remarks represent an already accepted truism. For any of you over age 35 you need only think of some super cutie you knew from high school or college. Can you picture her now? Good. Now go do a search for her on facebook; she’s probably married and if she posted a current photo of herself enjoy staring at the train wreck that some poor bastard got stuck with. I never envy slaves husbands. In fact the word ‘husband’ is synonymous with that scene from another movie titled “Full Metal Jacket ” where the company was standing around a couple of deceased fellow soldiers, and one guy looks at the dead and says “Better you than me!” You really have to be willing to commit the suicide sacrifice. The decision to marry has to be well thought out, and you must be prepared for what awaits you. Maybe it might be worth it, but most likely it will not be.

The problem for marriage goes beyond seeing your wife turn into a 400 lb. gastropod. Reed goes on:

Women are more eager than men to enter marriage, and more eager to leave it — with the kids, the house, and the child support. It won’t be amicable, not after seven years. You will be astonished at how ruthless she will be, how well she knows the law, and how utterly hostile to divorcing fathers the law is. (…..) You don’t understand how bad the divorce courts are. You probably don’t know what “imputed income” is. You think that “joint custody” means “joint custody.” Think again. Quite possibly you will have to support her while she moves with your kids to Fukuoka with an Air Force colonel she met in a meat bar. (…) In short, marriage often means turning twenty-five years of your life into smoking wreckage. Yes, happy marriages exist (I personally know of one) and there are the somnolent marriages of habitual contentment or, perhaps, of quiet resignation. But the odds aren’t good.

I would replace “you will have to support her while she moves with your kids to Fukuoka with an Air Force colonel she met in a meat bar” with: “you will have to support her while she and her new boyfriend, a coke dealing piece-of-shit ex-con live it up in your house” which is more accurate to the current zeitgeist.

Perhaps I am being too negative, but to me it seems to be obvious that there is nothing that will drain a man quicker of his finances, emotion, and life force then playing the role of human D-Cell battery to a female. It is your right to ask “What do I get out of all of this?”, and please do ask yourself this question and weigh all the pros and all the cons. It is also wise to realize that people, times and circumstances can and do change. It’s the human condition. And like many of us who have our eyes open we have seen waay too many unions fail to never question that marriage is extremely high risk.

The Wikipedia article about Reed describes his writings as “…articles speak of a yearning for a simpler time when America was a free country and urge the reader to forgo the pursuit of money and comforts in favor of a cultured life of the mind” which in my opinion, is what we as men should be shooting for as a replacement for marriage. No doubt it is easier said then done. As much as we desire a good woman by our side, that is becoming more difficult with each passing day when one sees what is happening to women world wide not just through culture, but through contemporary mainstream technologies as well.

For female companionship, do so in a very superficial way. Take care with your interactions with women. For starters, pay close attention at the laws where you live. In most places in the USA co-habitation with a woman is considered De facto marriage. When you guys break up (“when” not “if”—it ain’t going to last forever), all the financial ass raping sentences that would apply for the guy who did it legal will apply to you should you and her share the same address. And literally it could easily mean just your and her name on the same mailbox even though the two of you never actually lived under same roof.

Short term relations work best. When to leave is easy: as soon as she brings up the notion of either marriage or moving in together then it’s time to bail. If you do not, then the sound byte along the lines of “This relationship is not progressing” BS will slowly repeat and repeat and start getting worse and worse, like Chinese water torture.  As difficult as it may be for some, a man is still better off alone then to be stuck with a nagging shrew or with financial alimony / palimony servitude.

As far as marriage is concerned the USA is an empty shell of was once a great country, whose women are beyond repair.  What’s that popular joke about marriage that I heard? Oh yes: instead of getting married you could simply find some fat bitch you hate and buy her a house because that, at the end of the day, is what you will end up with.

I also understand too that for many of the readers here on this forum an article such as this is simply beating a dead horse in the ground, but as long as there are men marching off to the gallows of matrimony, we need to continue to repeat the painfully obvious.

Read Next: I Fell In Love And Got Married 

80 thoughts on “Marriage Is Just Plain Tedious”

  1. Perhaps, but for the sake of passing on my genes, it has to be done. At the very least I could teach my kids to spite feminists while the SWPLs can feel superior and claim they won’t have any kids because the Earth is overpopulated, or some such bullshit.

    1. Easy – have a kid without marriage, and without fear of losing custody. It’s relatively cheap, also. Even a full-time nanny costs a lot less than divorce theft.
      Quoting another comment from RoK:
      It’s easy to have a child without a mother in the picture to steal custody. Do in-vitro fertilization with your sperm and an egg donor mother, but
      with a separate surrogate mother.
      That way, neither the surrogate nor the egg donor have parental rights.
      Even IVF fees are a lot cheaper than the combination of:
      1. alimony post-marriage,
      2. community property or “equitable distribution”, handing over 50% of income during the marriage, and
      3. excessive child support beyond actual upbringing costs (going toward
      the mother’s beauty treatments for her new lover, post-separation).
      Here’s a 2008
      article from a magazine about gay men bypassing women.

      Ignore the gay part and it still applies.
      “Most gay men opt for an IVF procedure using an egg from a donor placed in the body of a different woman, who carries the embryo to term.
      This is called gestational surrogacy and is favored because in some states it gives the carrier no legal rights to the child she gives birth to.
      Melissa Brisman, a New Jersey lawyer who specializes in reproductive law, says
      it can cost between $60,000 and $150,000 to create a baby through IVF. The parents pay the gestational carrier’s medical bills. The fee
      paid to the carrier is often around $20,000; for carrying twins it can be $3,000 to $5,000 higher. The egg donor typically gets around $8,000 (although it can be less).”

  2. I was out for a walk on a recent evening and saw one of happiest couples I can remember. The guy was in his 40s, gray hair, fit, well dressed. The woman was late 20s, model looks, blonde, slim, elegantly dressed. What I observed was a man who was probably well-established and successful in his career and a woman who knew how lucky she was to have him. The ~15-year age gap likely made them a much better fit for each other than being closer to the same age.
    I’m not giving up on marriage, but if I do make the leap it’ll be outside of the U.S. to avoid the atrocious divorce laws and to a woman 10+ years my junior, after I’ve made my mark in my profession. Seeing the guy described above has given me a new perspective on what’s possible as men grow older. There’s no rush to get married or find an LTR before you’re 35. By that time you can make much more mature and informed decisions about why you wan’t to commit the rest of your life to one woman. By then (assuming you’re constantly building yourself up) you’ll be wealthier, wiser, more experienced and ultimately more desirable to the best women out there.

    1. QUOTE NICK: “I was out for a walk on a recent evening and saw one of happiest couples I can remember. The guy was in his 40s, gray hair, fit, well dressed. The woman was late 20s, model looks, blonde, slim, elegantly dressed. What I observed was a man who was probably well-established and successful in his career and a woman who knew how lucky she was to have him. The ~15-year age gap likely made them a much better fit for each other than being closer to the same age”
      That sounds like a sweet deal, but probably extremely rare in the states, assuming you witnessed the couple in the U.S.A. And I’ll bet the guy probably has to deal with shaming tactics, or simply being snubbed by jealous women and men of what he has. But I agree too that there is no telling the future, and what could come to pass should the romance wear off.

      1. “And I’ll bet the guy probably has to deal with shaming tactics, or simply being snubbed by jealous women and men of what he has. ”
        chances are pretty good that the older guy can handle the haters. if you were that guy, would you give a shit about being snubbed by jealous women and men?

      1. And when that happens, in order to avoid draconian divorce or palimony ass rape, a man will have to go to the utter shittiest of third world countries where laws simply are not enforced because the country is shit poor and shit corrupted, pure hell on earth.

        1. In the case of 99+% of all laws, them not being enforced is an unqualified positive. Honestly, it’s probably more like 100%.

  3. There are always gonna be men who flush their lives and fortunes away to avoid being left without a woman. You just don’t have to be that man.
    There are always gonna be men whose brains get so wrapped up in the fairytale of “the one” that they’ll become slaves. I read in “The Predatory Female” that the nature of man is servitude to a woman and we see how this plays itself out. It’s what happens when the little head tells the big head what to do. More men are gonna fall through the hole because they can’t really help themselves. The dick IS the brain and the brain that’s up there is just shit.

    1. Just think of every woman over 18 who actively engages you, as a former cock carouseler, if you are not a “Big Man on Campus”. Chances are, you aren’t …
      so you can avoid being tied to someone who … picks you last.

  4. QUOTE: “For any of you over age 35 you need only think of some super cutie you knew from high school or college. Can you picture her now? Good. Now go do a search for her on facebook; she’s probably married and if she posted a current photo of herself enjoy staring at the train wreck that some poor bastard got stuck with.”
    It’s true that the major advances in consumer technology benefit women, and to a much lesser extent men, but the above is a good example of how any man can use the social media to get a glimpse of the landmine he was lucky enough not to step on. Before facebook, when I would think of the skanks in high school days I had mad crushes on but they were too precious to give me the time of day, I would still think of them as I last saw them in their prime. Now after f’ing around with FB I did do a search for these same women, and sure enough I couldn’t believe my eyes. Apparently modern day technology is proving Mr. Reed to be correct!

    1. More than a few of us have gotten flirty emails from said hotties, acting like they didn’t treat you like mopwater in high school.

    2. Haha. That is so true. I still remember this girl that used to sit next to me in 12th grade. She would let me to touch her thighs and put my hand around her waist during class)
      Now she is really fat. And she still wear tight jeans, you know. Not a very pleasant view. I saw her pics on Facebook the other day.

    3. Heartiste and Rollo put it well:

      Thank you Mark Zuckerberg for creating the single greatest time-comparative engine men have ever known.

      Looking at old photos of exes was always a dreamy nostalgia trip, because men have rarely had access to newer, updated photos of exes or high school and college crushes: you left a girl or she left you, and that was that. You never saw her again, unless you really went out of your way. So your memories remained untainted by fresher biosystem information.

      There could be no more powerful way to inculcate to a man new to the game the first principle that women are largely interchangeable in the dating market than by handing him the keys to Facebook and the dangerous secrets locked within. The female aging process of past lovers compressed into seconds will shatter the hardest pedestals and deflate the headiest romantic idealism.

      1. QUOTE: “Heartiste and Rollo put it well:”
        They sure as hell did, and for once it is good to see technology for the betterment of men for providing into just what happens to “cupcake” after several years down the road. Somehow men already know this fact, but the facebook time warp keeps in most vividly in our brains.

    4. But the very same goes for men. I had a crush in high school on a guy who happened to be the hottest guy in school. Everyone liked him and he never gave me the time of the day. Ten years passed, 30 years have passed, and the guy is fugly. Fat, bald and old. He did not age well. When I saw him, I could only thank God and ask myself what I was thinking when I liked him. On the other hand, I have aged gracefully, I take care of my figure and my skin, never smoke, never drink, never stay up late. I think he felt bad when he saw me.And the irony is that while I am married, he has remained single for 20+ years. His only marriage did not last. Who would think he was so hot and nothing remains but a vague memory of what he once was.

  5. Just read a beta times article about how singles have traditionally gotten screwed with higher travel prices, because theses hotels and cruise ships price their accommodations for couples. This has been the case for decades. Now the article says that practice is coming to an end because of the rising rate of unmarried people.
    “According to figures released last year by the Census Bureau, there were
    102 million unmarried people 18 and older in America in 2011 — more than
    44 percent of adult residents. That’s up from 92 million in 2006, which
    was 42 percent of residents 18 and older. It won’t be long before half
    of the country is unmarried.”
    I think guys are definitely starting to get the message.

  6. Marriage went downhill when Uncle Sam decided to get involved and sided everything to the woman.
    Now that’s not to say men still didn’t the a raw deal…but at least the deal beforehand was you were able to rule your wife. Which to me is a fine tradeoff to giving up every other woman…if the one you are with respects and follows you. I certainly wouldn’t allow her to do things that lead to her self destruction like eating all the junk food in sight.

    1. “Marriage went downhill when Uncle Sam decided to get involved…”
      Replace marriage with everything.

  7. I would file marriage under “it is just sometimes OK”. If you are a man of the right age and correct personality then it can be better then single. If you are a man of the wrong age and/or wrong personality it wil not suit you well. There are tons of pitfalls that have been hashed out endlessly – divorce rape, sex drying up, etc. There are a few advantages still – lower overall cost of living, some services performed, stability, lower taxes (for now, and retirement can work out a little better). An alpha man in his mid to late 30’s who marries a younger woman in her late 20’s who is looking to get off the cock carousel but would still like some alpha traits is probably going to do just fine. A beta in his 20’s marrying a bitch that has the constant allure of the cock carousel she never got to ride, well, prepare for divorce rape in 5-7 years if not sooner.
    If you are worried about the one vagina for the rest of your life, do not. You will have an affair on average at least every five years until your sixties. And, if you are an alpha and keep it discreet, she will most likely not divorce you if she finds out. In fact, it will probably improve your sex life for awhile because she will know the reason you did it is because she didn’t spread ’em enough. Most married men I know have at least 2-3 affairs in a long term marriage. It’s the business trip. The secretary. The “guys” road trip. Heck some will just get a hooker to remind them what other pussy is like. The thing is it will happen. It always has. Married women usually just put up with it even though that is not said in polite company nor do women make it known that they will in the end put up with it.
    Here is how my advice usually breaks down:
    20’s beta – hell no unless you want to learn how much divorce rape sucks. Spend your 20’s learning game, engaging in self improvement, and hitting the gym.
    20’s alpha – why? spend your 20’s dating multiple women.
    30’s beta – if you are younger looking same as 20’s beta. If you are bald and still have not learned game might want to think about trying marriage now or never. Try to learn game first of course.
    30’s alpha – wait until your game and looks start to fade. Keep your hook ups with an eye to an LTR that might transition into marriage. Shoot for 28-30 age range.
    40’s alpha or beta – if you have never married give it some thought. Aim for the youngest/best looking woman you can attract.
    Never married – try it once. Get a pre-nup (not like it will matter much though)
    Married once – if you were that 20’s beta that got married young and divorced leave it as an open option. If you are older 30’s or 40’s bachelorhood is for you.
    Married twice – forget about it at any age. If it didn’t work once or twice it is not going to work a third time.

    1. no way should be looking at girls age 28-30 for marriage. Gross.
      The more cocks she’s had the less she can bond to yours.

      1. You have to deal with reality. No 37 year old guy, with the usual qualifications and exceptions, is going to find a hot 21 year old bride. The reason why you shoot for that age range is because they are not satisfied long term by the cock carousel and are looking to get off. In swoops the right Alpha, that is if you are looking for a wife, and she will make as good of a one an American woman can. If you want a chick with a low cock count then you better get religious, and super religious at that, or ugly. Even the most modest girl is going to have 2-3 cocks from college and another 2-3 from her early to mid 20’s.

        1. Ugly girls have a body part in common with pretty girls, that men want for coitus.
          To believe they must exert themselves to gain cock is stupid in the extreme.

  8. If you want to get married, do it right. Hide the bulk of your assets from the get-go. If she gets fidgety, take out the biggest home-equity loan you can get and *go Kerouac on everyone’s ass* If you have kids, find a trusted brother-in-arms back home who can receive and disperse money directly to them periodically.

  9. The only thing I still can not get here is:
    why the hell do you guys think that foreign women are more stupid than American ones?Why,oh why?Do you honestly think that a russian woman who took a decision to travel overseas with some beta from internet can’t figure out how to consult a lawyer?Or go online and read one of those “russian women abroad forums” (they are full of legal advices on how to get what you want)?Or a brazilian chick would not figure out how to talk to that 45 years old,2 times divorced BMW driving hairdresser from her town back in Brazil?

    1. Who said they were “more stupid?”
      The general thought is that they have a different value system and see men as men (as women did in the old days), not “the enemy” as feminists and the media have trained women to do since 1970.
      If anything, these women are smarter, since they instinctively know how to make a life that doesn’t leave wreckage and damaged children behind.

  10. Instead of articles constantly bashing marriage, it would be nice to see more constructive articles in the manoshpere about how to pick a proper wife and protect yourself legally if you do decide to get married. The fact is, the situation is not near as bad as it is made out. Only about 40% of first marriages end in divorce — meaning that most people who get married do stay married for life. Of those 40% that end in divorce — not all are the wife’s fault. Yes, most are, but a sizeable minority of these divorces are caused by men who refuse to live up to their vows and who cheat on their wives.
    And, of those 40% of first marriages that end in divorce, most of these divorces could have been avoided if guys would properly screen their wives — no girls from broken homes, no girls with mental disorders, etc. So, if you weed out women who are, on the surface, clearly not marriage material, you can cut your chance of divorce down to about 25% or less — meaning 3 to 1 odds that your marriage lasts a lifetime.
    This idea of men getting raped in divorce court is also overblown. Does it happen? Yes. But, it is pretty rare. About 90% of divorces settle out of court, meaning that both parties accept a compromise they can live with. So, in summary, if you screen out the candidates who are clearly not marriage-worthy, you’ve got less than a 2.5% chance of getting raped in divorce court (25% x <10%). Not a bad risk considering the tangible benefits of a marriage if done right — companionship, two incomes,tax breaks, someone to help raise your children, home-cooked meals, clean and ironed laundry, etc.

    1. “protect yourself legally if you do decide to get married” This is an oxymoron. When a man gets married, his future is in the hands of his wife. She could either stay married to him for the rest of his life or she can decide to take some of his money, his house, his car(s) or his kids (and not allow him to see them.)
      How do you know this divorce rape “rarely” happens? Tons of men on the internet complain about it (I’m assuming there are many that have been married.) If you judge by what you see in real life which is men telling you they’re just fine (when they’re not,) you’re missing out on a lot.
      The fact that a woman can rape a man in divorce court if she wants should be enough but if you wanna go down that road, why not?

      1. Exactly. The whole damned system in the western world is stacked up against men as TQR stated, only the dumbest of the dumb are the ones still wanting to makr a go at it.

    2. Dude, respectfully, you truly are missing the boat. No amount of ‘screening’ can protect you when she decides to move on and be rid of you. The US is no longer a sane country and it is continuing to get worse. I used to think like you, but now no longer. But go ahead and take the plunge, do it. And I can’t wait to hear your posts after you receive your third degree reality burns.

    3. I wish I could agree with you, but the evidence I’ve seen makes me disagree. Too many women change and opt out, leaving men holding the bag.
      What you have to understand is that women are herd creatures more than men. So if your wife has friends who are divorcing, she’ll go that route. If suddenly a bunch of TV shows and movies come out “celebrating” divorced women, expect problems. If a book like “How Stella Got Her Groove Back” or “Eat Pray Love” comes out, also expect this to be an influence. (This is the same thing that causes all the women in the office to have babies at the same time. Ever see that happen? I have.)
      Maybe you can find some hippie chick or ’50s wife devoted to her man and kids and totally oblivious to her friends’ attitudes or medialand. If you can, more power to you. Let us all know where these women are hiding.

    4. Do you actually know any married people? As in, close enough that they’ll actually talk about their problems with you? They’re miserable, particularly the men. I know happily married women. I don’t know any happily married men (including the husbands of the few happy women I do know).
      There are lots of reasons. Some wives blew up and got disgustingly fat. Some turned out to be insane and were successfully hiding it for the two years it took to get the ring. Some stopped having sex more than once a month or so (or less). Some randomly got hormonal as they got a little older and turned crazy.
      Every one of these guys is someone whose relationship I used to envy. I saw them during the early stages of their relationships and they were totally in love. They had exactly what every man wants. And then it all went to shit.
      Now I talk to them and it’s like looking at a train wreck. That girl who used to be the love of their life is torturing them with insane demands, creating drama for no reason, generally being a disgusting slug, and refusing to have sex. And of course, they all have kids, so the guys are stuck for at least another decade or so in a life they completely hate.
      You talk about how “only” 40% of marriages end in divorce. Well, ok – but what’s it like for the guys who stick it out for the kids, for religious reasons, to keep their parents happy, or just because they’re too much of a pussy to pull the plug? My friends are all college educated guys with good careers making at least six figures. They’re not players and not douchebags, they’re exactly the kind of people sane women should be crawling across broken glass to get married to.
      If marriage is so great, why isn’t a single one of them happy? These are a bunch of relatively smart guys who all thought they’d succeeded in screening out the bad apples to find good, decent, sane women. I thought so, too. If none of those guys can do it, how can anyone else?

      1. I know a married Muslim guy who hates his marriage, and he works high up in a British multinational here in Asia.
        Dream on if you think Islam will stop feminism.
        According to Yusuf Estes, “In Islam, all men are responsible for all women”.
        Man up and marry them sluts!

  11. One thing to keep in mind is that, for masculism to survive and thrive, men will eventually have to settle down, get married, and have children they can teach masculine values to. Marriage is not about the woman as much as it is about the children.
    The way to avoid divorce is basically the same as the way to get laid: Do not ever take the wife for granted, and always be gaming the wife.

    1. “The way to avoid divorce is basically the same as the way to get laid: Do not ever take the wife for granted, and always be gaming the wife.”
      I’m afraid your horribly mistaken.
      1. The way to get laid is exactly the opposite of what you state – that namely, you should take the girl for granted. Carry an abundance mentality, and treat every woman as expendable.
      2. There’s no such thing as “gaming your wife,” because game is predicated on having power over a woman and displaying elements of power to attract women. As soon as you get married, you lose all your power.
      Thus there is no gaming your wife, only appeasing her.

      1. What Samseau said, plus I would like to add that “gaming” only works momentarily so it’s successful for getting laid, but gaming is not viable for long term relationships.

      2. Game and hypergamy never end, married or single. Whether you choose to play the game is irrelevant. The laws of nature exist and can be used to supercede the laws of man.

        1. “The laws of nature exist and can be used to supercede the laws of man.”
          Haha. Tell that to the feminist judge at your divorce proceedings.

        2. I think it’s a legitimate question whether a man can take the Red Pill and be married. I contend that a man can; look, for example, at the MarriedManSexLife page.

        3. I don’t need to. I filed no-contest and my wife agreed to my decision. Lost nothing. My wife listens to what I say and respects and follows me because I’ve used game throughout our marriage.
          However my advice to all men is to avoid the hassle. My experience was a happy one but in general I think marriage is a raw deal for men. Plus most men are betas and don’t have the frame that I have – that’s why they give in to women and “the law.” Nevertheless for those who are married, remember, Game never ends.

        4. I’ll second that – game never ends. I got married in my late 20’s, it lasted 3 years. Where’d I fuck up? I quit the game.
          End result: Out of court settlement, I got our rental property, she got the main house, went our separate ways, even stayed friends for a couple years afterwards.
          Will I get married again? I’m 35 now, and still think I’ll do it again. Just not to another ‘murican.

  12. This post brings tears to my eyes in memories of the bad decisions I’ve made in my life.
    Having children who love and respect you and in whom you can point to with pride -“That’s my son!” or “That’s my daughter!” – makes the stress and strains and disappointments of marriage worth it in the end.
    But you, young man, have to make it happen. Find a good woman who will partner with you in family formation and maintenance. Yes, they are getting harder to find but marginal cases can be improved under your leadership. Women are the weaker sex – weaker physically but weaker morally and intellectually. That means you, Big Strong Man can mold her and discipline her and make her a better woman.
    So boys, get your asses out there are make good families. You’ll be glad you did.

    1. “Having children who love and respect you and in whom you can point to
      with pride -“That’s my son!” or “That’s my daughter!” – makes the stress
      and strains and disappointments of marriage worth it in the end.”
      This is more to do with your own ego than with kids.
      “So boys, get your asses out there are make good families. You’ll be glad you did.”
      Not if you get ass-launched out of them, you won’t.

      1. So Ace, it’s somehow wrong to be proud of the next generation of humans that you had a hand in creating and nurturing? What’s your alternative – perpetual adolescence? Is your papa proud of you?
        The Chinese have a phrase for men who don’t reproduce – “Empty Sticks.”
        Are you more scared of failing in marriage than in being an empty stick?
        I know this is a bitch site where we voice our manly complaints but real men take action and don’t take consul of their fears. Yes, the laws are stacked against us and yes society seems intent on making even more child-like women from which to choose our partners. If you get screwed along the way, take your lumps and move on.
        Choose your life.

        1. QUOTE WHITEHALL: “real men take action and don’t take consul of their fears. Yes, the laws are stacked against us and yes society seems intent on making even more child-like women from which to choose our partners. If you get screwed along the way, take your lumps and move on.”
          Either you’re a feminist troll or a total shit-for-brains, or both.

        2. QUOTE WHITEHALL: “real men take action and don’t take consul of their fears. Yes, the laws are stacked against us and yes society seems intent on making even more child-like women from which to choose our partners. If you get screwed along the way, take your lumps and move on.”
          Either you’re a feminist troll or a total shit-for-brains, or both.

        3. No, man. He’s no shit-for-brains. Guys like Whitehall merely see you as bovine breeding stock. They want you to reproduce– no matter what the cost to yourself– to ensure social continuity and secure their own comfortable retirements. Call it what it is: pure self-interest in it’s most evil, infantile, unmanly form.
          If you, say, get completely railroaded in divorce court, lose access to your kids, live out a hardscrabble twenty five years of penury, then die prematurely from stress-related illness… who cares? Not Whitehall.
          “Next!” Moo! [*splat*]

        4. “its”
          It just occurred to me how ironic the name Whitehall is. “Knock up those sluts for Queen and Country, gents!”

        5. “So Ace, it’s somehow wrong to be proud of the next generation of humans
          that you had a hand in creating and nurturing? What’s your alternative –
          perpetual adolescence?”
          Having been married and having had it been a total failure, I’d say YES, endless adolescence is a good alternative. One of the reasons I got married was I felt the need to “grow up.” There was no need to feel this way, in retrospect.
          I worked hard and now I get to live the way I want. The problem is that I’m not 24-25 anymore. I should have valued that time and dated all the 19-year-olds that liked me instead of “growing up.” I would urge everyone here to hold onto those years. I’m now too old to just waltz into a convenience store and pick up the teenage girl working behind the counter.
          Don’t mistake this for an anti-career diatribe. It’s not. I did well in my career — well enough to call the shots now. It was attempting to deal with an American woman within in realm of marriage that caused the problems in my life. There is no reason any responsible guy with a career should throw his best years away…not to mention a bunch of money he earned.
          As for having kids, well, I never felt that urge and I’d guess most guys today don’t. Had I gone that route, I’d be writing from the poor house or debtor’s prison.

  13. I think that marriage is a bad deal for most men. However, if you want kids, marriage is probably a necessity since you are still on the hook for child support if you knock up a chick but don’t marry her, so might as well get married and raise your kids in your own home.
    If you don’t want kids, though, marriage makes absolutely no sense since you can get all the benefits (in fact, more since you have variety) with short-term relationships or long-term relationships without marriage.

  14. Get married outside of the US to a foreign wife. You will have a much greater chance of meeting a feminine women who’ll be a willing partner in life to raise your kids with.
    Cross cultural relationships are harder, but worth it compared to the choice of marring some nasty warhog in training.

    1. You will have a much greater chance of meeting a feminine women who’ll be a willing partner in life to raise your kids with, since you will get paid more than the locals as you are a Westerner and hence become more attractive than the local guys. Of course, all bets are off if you lose your job to cutbacks and are deported ’cause you don’t have a reason to be in the country anymore.
      Fixed that for you, no charge.

    2. As soon as they learn the language of English and get around English speaking Western women, they learn the language of modern feminism.
      The “marry foreign” idea is no longer safe.

  15. Maybe it might be better for the few of us not to go on such an anti-marriage crusade. Maybe it is in OUR interest if many of them do marry. Just like it may be in OUR interest if every man doesn’t adopt Game.
    Roosh’s post on RooshV “The Destructive Merger of Dating Choice & American Culture” got me thinking.
    And I haven’t come up with an answer yet. He speaks about how Facebook, Smart Phones, Social Media, Female web “news” have created a perfect storm of choosiness and choice addiction. And he made specific reference to Game and approaching as he had in the past. And he remarks on the positive social things that restrain them and how they are disappearing.
    I’ll give an analogy. I support religion wholeheartedly. But personally, I think it’s a load of crap and an adult version of Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Be good and get presents. Be bad and you get punished. And “he” can see you to know if you are good or bad. And here is list of stuff that is good and another that is bad. Don’t question either one. But for a form of getting people to not break in my house and steal my stuff or kill me for the 20 dollars I might have in my pocket, it works for me. And if I causes “trust” to be common because you can trust that most people are moral, then it has a value. It works very well for me if the majority of people are moral even if I find the reason that they are moral to be absolutely ridiculous.
    So perhaps there are benefits to “us” if a good number of people marry. Men work harder and society functions better. Maybe single women would be a little better behaved, at least at some point, if they thought a good percentage of men would submit to marriage and they believed there was something to be gained other than dinner or a fuck for tonight.
    I had been of the mind that it would be better if no women married and all were sluts, then the pool of fuckables would be higher. And as men aged they wouldn’t be driven into marriage because at every age in a man’s life, there would be available women for him to fuck. Twenty years ago, at 25 there tons of girls to play with, and 30 still a lot, but at 40, looking at what a 40 year old guy could get to date him, there were far fewer. So today there are tons of 33 year old women without husbands, live-ins, or anything more than casual relationships for a 40 year old man.
    But now I am not so sure and I am mulling it around in my mind as to whether an absolute end to marriage is a good or bad thing for most Red Pill men.
    Here is an example. The stock market hit new records today. The main reason is that stocks go up mostly because of 401K accounts. You sign up once a year. Most people do not change the dispersal. And money goes into accounts, clunk, clunk, clunk, and the stocks slowly rise in price. You can’t really sell them. You can’t touch the money without a big tax penalty. Then some point other retail investors say “Hey stocks are high again” and then jump in. And the 401K people are usually married people. You have to have worked somewhere for at least 6 months to join. You have to have that kind of job. You have to be in an income situation to where you can afford to give up 9% of your income. This has an overall benefit to all even if only psychologically.
    The list of things like this is long. Cable. Insurance. Mortgages. With married people buying them, adding scale and reducing costs of providers, it is cheaper for all. Once people get divorced, they chunk that shit because it becomes a luxury they can’t afford.
    And look at game. Shit that worked even 2 years ago, is outmoded, and women are hip to it and are looking for it. Approaches are getting out of hand. There is a vital question as to whether Night Game is fucked and most men should concentrate on Day Game. And even then women will get screechy defensive over any man that approaches ever. So it might have been better if Game had stayed a little less public because we weren’t trying to convert everyone.
    So maybe if fools want to be fools, we should just let them instead of preaching from every soapbox.

    1. A couple of things I would like to add as well to Minter’s reply. He is correct when he said now that females are hip to “game” and I remember one lone writer on game back in the 1990s predicted that the awareness of game would hit critical mass and become mainstream known. Then came along that VHJ1 reality show. But nobody could predict what will eventually come once “game” is out in the open. One might argue that it all could just implode on itself; in addition where women assume every audible syllable that comes out of a man’s mouth is manipulating rhetoric, and likewise, every sound a female eeks or any mannerisms or body behavior is perceived by men as pure manipulation on her part. To the point where all dysfunctional interactions between the sexes are now equally cancelled out, thus leaving only room for straightforward dealings, possible.

      1. I remember one lone writer on game back in the 1990s predicted that the awareness of game would hit critical mass and become mainstream known.
        That lone writer on game was also harassed by mainstream game gurus …
        and pointed out that the most compliance you could get from women was through your utility for them and money you showed.
        He knew back then, that women only valued men they had previously rejected when anyone else they knew would have charged them a price they did not want to pay.

        1. That lone writer was more or less ostracized. He was an eccentric no doubt, but brilliant. He had a more honest insight to how things were between the sexes. Guys like Ross Jeffries with speed seduction theory was interesting, but Jeffries refused to accepted the fact that American females were fucked in the head about. The lone writer I recall had wrote some very astute things that turned light bulbs on for me.

  16. If you want to have nightmares, audit a Family Law class at a local Law School. The cases from your textbook will keep you up all night with terrors. The lectures from the professor will have you cowering under your desk and occasionally fainting.

  17. Even if just 50% of marriages end in divorce, you have to remember that many people who stay married stay married “just for the kids”. When the kids leave for college, it’s time to divorce. Sounds like one the worst tortures to me, to live through a marriage like that. And many of you here dream of marrying a sweet Asian doll. Let me tell you, as soon as Asian girls tie the knot, they turn into bitches. Maybe you’ll find a truly nice girl. Maybe. But isn’t that the same kind of odds you have in America?

  18. I understand why you’re saying what you’re saying, but this is a lot of ignorance on display. What you say as far as appearance is correct, but if you’re married, you’ll find there are things that matter more as you age. You’re definitely not factoring in what your life as a player is likely to be at age 50+. You won’t score like you did and basically will grow old alone with no one to care for you. Even if you decide to bail out of player life late, only the most damage women will be available to you (older, divorced, set in they’re ways). I’ve seen this up close, as my neighbor was a stud player for years. He bailed on the life into a marriage with a woman who kept her appearance good through late 30’s and 40s. Previously divorced, she is completely set in her ways and he has no leverage in the relationship. None. He appears very sad now. I love the guy and feel bad for him, but it does validate my choice to commit to marriage in my late 20s. To me, his mistake was trying to have his cake and eat it too. Be a player for life, or get married, but don’t go for the brass ring of marriage, you have to earn that and commit to it relatively early. Player life and solid marriage are mutually exclusive.
    That said, married life has a lot of downs. It has a lot of ups. Ups you don’t see and don’t value from the platform of a player. And, you can always live vicariously through the other players and get plenty of mileage out of that.
    It’s not an easy decision either way and there are costs for both choices.

  19. The problem about this is where does it leave our boys? If you pump and dump enough one of those girls will get pregnant and if you don’t take the responsibility to raise the son you are just helping to create more and more beta males. Instead marry the girl but make it absolutely clear you are the alpha. You will take care of yourself physically and she will too. Divorce is an option that’s not even considered.

  20. A woman who doesn’t love a man quite as much as he loves her will have his loyalty the way a woman who loves more never will. As long as she doesn’t put on weight doesn’t take all his money, to many men, that’s love enough.

    Divorced after 16 years and now the courts made me a ATM machine for her and a part time babysitter for my kid.
    If I knew now what I knew then I would have never in a million years gotten married and definitely do not have kids.
    If you do marry makesure she makes more than you and do and she does not want to be a stay at home mom or the courts will rape you for the next 18 to 22 years.
    Federal government matches every dollar the state can get for child support with 80 cents. So the more men they can get on the hook the more the states get and can do whatever they want. It is a multi-billion dollar scam and the sad part is the kids and mainly fathers are the ones who are losing.
    Here is a nightmare scenario for you to think about before having kids.
    You marry and have 2 kids and then 5 years into the marriage your wife scrrws your best friend and then divorces you and get child support of 35% of you pre tax salary and also you pay insurance and maybe alimony.
    After all the pain wears off you finally start dating again and fall in love and get married and have a child with her and then a year later she leaves you and gets the kid and 25% of you salary. So now you have 3 kids you see ever other weekend and you are trying to live off 40% of you salary, pre tax.
    If the wife looses her job the state welfare system will step in and help her. If you get laid off the state will step in and put you in prison where you will get a$$ raped. While you are in prison the State will freeze your retirement pension and give it to your ex wives. So you will get out of prison totally broke with a gapping a$$ and good luck finding a job with a record so now back to prison where you will finally find a cell mate to rape that a$$ once again.

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