How The Gender Script Was Flipped

There are a host of factors contributing to the perpetuation of blue pill mentalities. One of these is the pervasive myth regarding a gendered divide in the desire to commit. The myth goes something like this:

“Young women are looking for love. Men are dogs.”


This is a myth that seems widely accepted in mainstream society. Stories discussing any difficulties faced by females in the mating game usually seek to blame men first and foremost. Media regularly plays up the myth of the male as the uncommitted predator or the rowdy oaf without as much interest in romantic pairings as his female counterparts. Society has said that men are dogs, and many have accepted this.

The reality, of course, is quite a different story. Red Pill takers will have been quicker to realize this, but the past few years have finally started to see the mainstream media itself unearth this reality:

A new portrait of single Americans, drawn from a major new survey, suggests the attitudes and behaviors of today’s singles are quite unlike their counterparts just a few decades ago. Data show men are quicker to fall in love and more likely than women to want children: 54% of men say they have experienced love at first sight, compared with 44% of women; among singles without children under 18, more men (24%) than women (15%) say they want children.

And, across every age group, women want more independence than men in their relationships: 77% of women say having their personal space is “very important,” vs. 58% for men; 78% of women say the same about having their own interests and hobbies (vs. 64% for men). And 35% of women (vs. 23% of men) say regular nights out with the guys/girls are important.

Sara Barrett, 34, of Washington, says she and her women friends — both single and married — do talk about maintaining their individuality to make sure they don’t get “totally lost in their relationships.”

“The independence is really, really important to us,” she says, noting that the “girls’ night out” for a handful of friends is usually once a week.

“With some friends, it’s been an issue. They dated a guy who was clingier than they wanted.”

“I think men are more needy for a relationship than women,” says June Ashley, who married at 17 and was divorced after nine years. She remarried and was widowed after seven years.

Sherri Langburt of New York, founder of, a lifestyle website for singles, says she has noticed the changes in what men and women ask the site’s panel of experts.

“Men are writing us more about the emotional relationships than women. Women are writing us about the one-night stands,” Langburt says. “Women are (asking) if it’s OK — ‘Can I have a one-night stand?’ Men are writing, ‘I’m single and I’m lonely and want to find love and can’t admit it to anyone.’”

Romantic love is increasingly a notion bought into by young men first and foremost. Like Rollo Tomassi said, men are the true romantics. Despite the presence of pervasive myths that put romanticism in an almost exclusively female realm, the reality is that young men are falling in love faster and harder than young women are today.


What does all of this mean for your typical young guy in the modern dating scene? Basilransom, a young man who frequents Roosh’s forum and other destinations in the manosphere, summed up the reality perfectly in a comment over at Dalrock’s a while back:

When girls are attracted to me, they are often quick to peg me as a cheeky asshole, or whatever. And if I do anything to intimate I’m interested in anything more than sex, their disappointment is visceral, if subtle.

Women are extremely turned off by men who want any sort of relationship before they do. It’s the surest sign of being a loser in their eyes. Even for “good girls.” They strongly believe that quality men need to be pinned down and snared into a relationship. I don’t think young attractive women want exclusive LTRs with studs, at least initially.

Also, girls are so used to socializing in mixed groups that dates freak them out. The slightest prospect of a relationship and thus a loss of independence scares them. I’ve had many girls tell me they feel weird talking on the phone to a man. They live in perpetual fear of ‘awkwardness,’ and will do their best to avoid situations that might give rise to it. Intimacy prior to sex is impossible for them.

Maybe, after several bouts of sex, she will desire slightly more. She will ask that you stop banging other girls.

I would ask girls out on dates in college – not because I wanted to make them my girlfriend, but because I wanted to bang them. Because it made getting sex easier than if I had done the usual “let’s meet up together with our friends drunk Friday night” which is a logistical nightmare. And these dates would often consist of just a glass of wine in my room – not that I promised it’d be anything more. You couldn’t have a clearer way of saying “I just want to bang you,” but I could feel girls seeing me as less of a man for not trying to do what every other cool guy does, which is to haphazardly try to bang her drunk one night.

In short, the advice for young men is simple: DO LESS.

I’ve offered precisely that piece of advice before, and it remains true now. Independence is very important to young women today. The larger and more visible the investment you make in any girl, the greater a threat you will appear to her independence. The young, modern woman is increasingly likely to value that independence much more than she values your company, which means that you will be on the outs if you threaten it.

The script has flipped: young men are increasingly becoming the ones chasing commitment from women, and it is now the girls who are batting them away.


These realities must be internalized by young men when it comes to the young women they are pursuing:

1. They don’t want a provider (don’t act like one).

2. They don’t want your commitment (unless they’ve already offered you theirs, don’t give it to them).

3. They don’t want traditional dating (don’t give it to them).

4. Most of them aren’t all that excited about the idea of having a family or anything serious like that (make sure she doesn’t think that you are, especially early on).

This is where the importance of self-improvement as a focus for young men becomes abundantly clear. In a world where more commitment-oriented men are looked down upon, the man who has invested more heavily in himself is at a distinct advantage. As Basil noted above, you do not want to be the guy who pines for a relationship before the girl he is interested in does. When you have poured all of your effort into improving yourself financially, physically and spiritually, you will not have the time or the inclination to be that guy. You will be too busy working, exercising, learning and traveling to bother with that.


This, in turn, plays into another very important observation Basil made above: girls believe that quality men must be chased and pinned down. This means that if a girl ever did decide to compromise her independence to any degree for the sake of a man, it would be for what she would consider a “quality male”. Who is that quality male?

In all likelihood, he is a man who has interests of his own (e.g., business, exercise, travel, etc), invests heavily in them and probably doesn’t appear all that concerned about relationships. Neediness is a foreign concept to him.

In other words, he is the man who embodies the goals of any male looking into self-improvement. Women who generally value their independence very highly and shy away from commitment are likely to commit to… a man who values his independence very highly and might be inclined to shy away from or pay little mind to the idea of commitment. As you would expect from a reality so closely in line with classic theories of female hypergamy, only a small minority of men fit this bill. Your goal should be to become one of them.


These truths are difficult for a lot of men to accept. Many were raised to be precisely the man women now seek to distance themselves from. They were raised with images of more ‘traditional’ relationships in their heads (fueled in part by Disney and the rest of Hollywood), and told to get in touch with their feelings and be more open to expressing them. Many grow up and are shocked to learn that behaviors they considered ordinary and par for the romantic course now mark them as “clingy” and low value.

Difficult as it may be, change has come and these new realities are here to stay. Women want their independence. To this end, they are looking for an increasingly more independent, self-assured man. Become that man and give them what they want—nothing more, and nothing less. Adapt or die.

Read Next: Men Love Commitment

118 thoughts on “How The Gender Script Was Flipped”

    1. Roosh had a great post a while back ( I can’t find It) that basically compared and contrasted what would happen if your parents were meeting today instead of back in their times, and the conclusion was that they would fare the same as any relationship or commitment-minded man today.

      1. If you took society today…and transported it to the time through a Delorian to our parents or grandparents generation.
        Marty McFly’s mom would be doing 20-100 Biffs…and his dad would be playing video games and jerking off to pr0n. Basically we’d all fade away from the picture.
        As it goes today our kids are fading away.

        1. What is the solution if you want the same thing that your parents or grandparents had? I’m not a big fan of Marriage 2.0 and the threat of divorce rape constantly hanging over your head. But what I have increasingly found is that there is an extreme shortage of relationship-quality girls. Even if they wanted to be with you, you discover they aren’t qualified for anything more than casual bangs. I thought church girls were an answer for awhile, but I discovered that the only difference between church girls and secular girls is that church girls are in the pews on Sunday morning.

        2. Men as a whole should stop causally banging girls. Why do you think male commitment has been devalued…because what females bring to the table is still being devalued? We see each other as objects.
          Women have been given all the power because of a few warm orifices. The choice is either some short term pleasure that doesn’t lead to anything…or sacrifice at first that brings something worthwhile.

        3. Sadly, church women are not the answer, as you discovered. I recently overheard two church girls discussing the virtues of riding the carousel at work. They didn’t know I was listening but promptly ended the conversation once they knew I heard them.
          The older I get, the more I realize women just need to be used and then disposed of. They have no nobility, no sense of honor like men do.

        4. back in the day the woman supported the man to provide for her, so she could support him….
          there is no other way……
          women today are no longer supportive… they try to take from the man…… they’ll mock the man before fixing his hair or adjusting his tie…. they whine and nag instead of letting him get out there, and return with bounty to share…… and they’d rather shutdown on their husbands than give them good sex and make them feel like a stud……
          being more masculine, having game, banging chicks, staying single are cures to the symptom, but the disease is women that are not supportive…..
          it’s no good if the person in the supportive role tries to take charge….. if that happened on a ship…. first mate, tries to take over from the captain… it’s called mutiny……
          there may be ways to build a lifestyle in a relationship without mutiny, but it’s not easy, because women are blasted all day long with shite from the media, false role models, false needs and a false idea of what their lives should be.
          some people would call it the antichrist…… i’m not religious, but i get their point….

        5. the disease is women that are not supportive. nailed it. even in a working environment, the female doctors would rather bitch each other out for status than actually care about the patient.

        6. Great one, Earl. Someone should write a movie with that premise. “Back to the Past” or something.

        7. Just a follow up. Marty’s mom initially wanted Marty because he was different (and sympathy for him getting hit by a car). George was a loser until he decked Biff and even then he was a loser that eventually became somewhat cool after adopting the alpha traits.

  1. And then there are the voices that some men are listening to…
    Tons of girls are sweating the new Great Gatsby
    movie and it’s incredibly ironic because in the end Gatsby was soft and had a
    stalker-like obsession with Daisy. (Gatsby’s character is an incredible
    combination of super alpha and desperate beta that acted in such a manner that
    parts were uncomfortable to watch) These girls are now saying things like
    “every girl wishes a guy loved her the way Gatsby loved Daisy” and
    it’s unbelievably funny considering the fact that the slightest bit of interest
    from a man causes these same girls to label him a desperate loser and dismiss
    him completely. What they really mean is simple – they wish a filthy rich,
    handsome man would show some interest in them. It’s a new age fairy tale and these girls are living in a fantasy land – if only in their minds.

    1. If you look at Gatsby, Twilight and 50 Shades Of Grey through the eyes of a woman, the common link is purely narcissism: they’re fantasies of being the type of woman to generate fawning, desperate obsession from a high-status, powerful alpha male.
      There’s a reason why Twilight and 50 Shades resonated with the Post-Wall Moms. If they actually read Gatsby, it’ll probably just confuse them that Daisy isn’t the narrator.

      1. It’s actually quite similar to a lot of fiction aimed at young boys: having sex with an extremely sexually attractive woman.

  2. You forgot to mention that one very important undercurrent driving men to seek relationships is their dicks. This should be at the top of the list. Once the young guy realizes this, everything else falls into place.
    Because, really, if younger guys didn’t walk around with hard-ons most of the time, think of how much energy and focus they could have for improving their lives. Women are secondary or tertiary, and should always be so.

    1. so many roid heads and kids without fathers due to hypergamy and the sexual revolution. not enough working men to maintain civilization.

    2. that’s not entirely true, a woman completes a man, like an electron complete a proton….. a proton needs an electron in orbit…. otherwise it’s just a useless free radicle….. it’s a tricky balance to maintain a good partner and a career…. but the real man does both…. the single guy is just a floater….

      1. No, not a floater, a free radical. A Reactive Oxygen Species. A high energy particle that can be harnessed to do a lot of werk, or else react explosively to wreck some shit. Sentience, intellect, and will give us that choice.

    3. I am alway reminded of the quote about women “If we didn’t want to fuck them, we’d have nothing to do with them.”

  3. So men have become women and women have become men. The only way to fix it is men becoming men again.
    Works for me. Because women don’t really want independence…and they also don’t want a male that is dependent on them.

    1. Basically if we could purge society of it’s massive Oedipus complex…we’d do a lot of good.
      I can’t tell you how many husbands were fawning over their wives on Mother’s day. She’s not your mother.

    2. Not quite, I think; it’s more that women have become sluts and men have become weak with the resulting despondency.
      And what these women mean by “independence” is jumping on a new cock every 3 days with interludes of pining over a genuine alpha who won’t give her the time of day. That type of “independence” they do want. Badly. Until they hit the wall, after which point they wonder what happened to all the good men.

  4. even allegedly awakened enlightened authors like this seem to miss the most fundamental truths about nature.
    It does not matter what the women want or prefer. It has always been irrelevant. It’s always a competition among men. Men are the superior species, men have subjugated nature and written the human experience, and women, like most things in nature, always bow to the strong in awe and complete surrender.
    Defeat your fellow men, outcompete and outclass your sex, and assuming you are healthy and alive, you will get anything you want in this world. Even the stupidest, bitchiest most psychotic woman has to fuck someone… Be the better man, in anything, and you will have an unlimited supply of all things throwing themselves at your, be it wealth, or horny girls.

    1. Why do you hate men? So, men have to be like gladiators just to gain female approval?
      Stop buying into female/social manipulation.

      1. Agreed. While there is a kernel of truth to what he’s saying, the rewards are getting less and less. Fifty years ago you just had to be a decent, accomplished guy to win over teh wimminz. Now you have to be a superstar, millionaire, playboy to have that sort of pull – and even then you’re liable to be facing a divorce after 7 years.
        I can nab pussy easily, but at 31 I’m sick of the bad attitude that comes along with it. And I’m sure as hell not going to sell my soul to the finance industry so that I can afford the materialist crap that most of these women demand, on top of game.

        1. I think the “bad attitude” may be more suited to some of us than others. Most of my own negative attitude towards women comes from the psychopaths I’ve dated and like a wolverine a la Red Dawn, my hatred keeps me warm. If it is like you say, as I’m only 28, and one does grow tired of it… then perhaps the game will change. But as it stands, I have no plans for long term commitment, marriage, or children. I have no patience for any of it. I imagine that even if I did find one of these magically pure unicorn women I would likely be bored in under six months and out the door.

        2. defeat and be defeated, it’s the purpose of life, and through it everyone becomes stronger. Just do it outside the oppressive limitations of the pathetically fallen anglo saxon society and culture, so you might catch the next train to greatness instead of being buried in the debris of the fallen American empire and all its corrupt influences…

        3. No, we want civilization back. The whole purpose of bending women to fill the needs of the family is to create a future.
          Playing into female sexuality is to play into the nihilistic destruction of society. I have to laugh because the same men who do this are the type when it collapses will probably find themselves getting their heads saw off by some psychotic 14 year old alpha male.

        4. Ha, Themistocles: great expression and right on the mark.
          I especially like pseudonyms — if you must have them — with some real meaning behind them.

  5. USA Today is a feminist jokerag.
    1. They don’t want a provider
    Right now.
    2. They don’t want your commitment
    Right now.
    3. They don’t want traditional dating
    Right now.
    4. Most of them aren’t all that excited about the idea of having a family or anything serious like that
    Right now.
    They have been sold a lie that it all lasts forever.
    But wait until they broach the age of 30 and that is the script that gets flipped. By then their male peers have wised up and are not eager to play along with the new paradigm, especially when there are plenty of younger gals acting out the aforementioned plot. Sad situation, really.

    1. Quite right.
      What Athlone has described is really the mindset of women when they are in the salad days of their late teens thru late 20s. They are then at the height of their desirability and male investment of any sort implies some corresponding obligation on the part of the female (obligations that would preclude her maximizing her value in the open sexual marketplace) so she disdains it.
      But The Wall precipitates a decline in her value and it is at this time (usually beginning around 30) she becomes more concerned with male investment, as she is progressively less able to attract it from the most desirable men.
      The Wall cometh and it is a cruel master. We as men must never underestimate its profound impact on female behavior.

        1. some women just live in denial after 30, or drop out completely. The lie of a high smv after 30 continues to be propagated to the next generation, who dont learn from these women. it’ll never end unless something extreme happens in society.

        1. Yes, be we don’t have to indulge it. Men in their 30s who have acquired some measure of prosperity and Game can use their power position in the SMP to bang younger/hotter/tighter and leave the older broads largely shut out of the market (for the most desirable men).
          They can hamster all they want…at home alone or with less desirable men.

        2. if you want to go long term, i think the trick is to pick one out, that’s tolerable…. and show her the wall…. let her dangle a bit…. and make her see the abyss….
          the concept of the man rescuing the woman from the precipice is more real than we thought…
          a woman loses her looks but it gets replaced with her children, her husband and her family…. that is a woman’s crowning achievement in her old age….
          a man just goes on building his tower higher and higher and that is his crowning achievement in his old age… whether that’s with a woman or not is irrelevant….

      1. “The Wall cometh and it is a cruel master. We as men must never underestimate its profound impact on female behavior.”
        Great quote! I learned this the hard way as my ex-wife turned 40.

    2. Not true at all. This is a common misconception.
      Women nowadays are fully able to spend 20s and even 30s finding themselves and still find plenty of suckers to marry.
      Script doesn’t get flipped in men’s favor. Women start wanting different things.

      1. All the more reason for men to find other ways of fulfilling themselves. Spending energy on fixing the system is futile. Time to find another paradigm where we men call the shots.

        1. Expatriating is a great idea.
          I’m going to go through all I’ve been through AND what I’ve seen my buddies go through and still settle for an Anglobitch? Hell no!
          I refuse to settle for second-rate merchandise. I don’t want these women when the tables turn and they’ve hit the wall or suffered one too many pump-and-dumps. I don’t need their pasty ass. I got by without them in my 20s by dating ethnic women. It’s too late to turn back now.
          There are too many women at peak SMV in other countries who are superior to Anglo women in virtually every important measure to even consider it.

        2. you miss the point, it’s about your value as a man, nothing to do with the women….

        3. To me, expatriating is realizing my value as a man.
          If I didn’t realize my value as a man, I’d stay here and keep putting up with the shit this society dishes out.

      2. Yes, though “suckers” is the operative, and apt, word. As is well known in these parts, a woman’s number of prior sexual partners increases the chances of divorce exponentially, so their “finding themselves” phase puts the viability of those marriages very much in doubt.
        A “former” carousel-rider wed to a guy who embodies everything she disdained and rejected in her 20’s? About as unstable a concoction as you’ll find. No wonder so many people are depressed.

      3. By the time today’s 20 year old carousel rider turns 25, the manosphere will have gone mainstream. The womyn will be begging for commitment but will find none.
        The Catocalypse will not just be televised; it will be tweeted and Farcebooked and Instagrammed (and moviefied?). This calls for some popcorn.

    3. oh they’ll learn when they hit their 30s but by then we won’t want anything with them..

    4. Yes! Moreover, said young men have also been sold a lie. They believe their raw sexuality is bad and repress it meanwhile exaggerating the more affectionate side of their impulses. Nothing wakes you up from this illusion better than giving-in to your baser instincts. The definition of “common” love becomes very different to you and you become acutely aware of the compromise it represents along with its child like aims and demands.

    5. Script wasn’t “flipped.” The barriers to freeform hypergamy were removed and crashed the market.
      Women’s peak sexual market value was, is, and always will be ages 15-25. Roughly speaking. A man’s, 30-40. There are dozens of ways the natural sexual supply and demand can roil a civilization, so we regulated the market — just like they shut down the circuit breakers at the NYSE when there’s a frenzy.
      We are living what happens in a world without circuit breakers. Unprotected girls making stupid choices and screwing up their lives in their teens/early 20s. Short-sighted men seeking sexual revenge for being ignored in their pre-peak years (30s) by female peers. Vicious cycle feeds on itself, and there is a run on the blue chips of both sexes.
      No possibility of long term investment. Only pump and dumps (in both the original and adopted meanings of the term). Lots of getting rich quick, lots of widespread misery.
      The solution is to corner the market like barons and use monopoly power to establish new standards.

      1. and just like in stocks and commodities to do that you must be absolutely ruthless and have loads of money… it’s my sentiment as well though… but you need min. 8 figure networth…. otherwise you’re up against too much competition…. money might not buy you love, but it will get you a harem of 5-10 women, at your beck and call night and day…. hugh hefner had the correct model…..

      2. “Short-sighted men seeking sexual revenge for being ignored in their pre-peak years (30s) by female peers”
        And why shouldn’t these men be angry?
        They’re getting ignored and working hard so that they don’t have to suffer later in life, great. The problem comes with certain people suddenly taking interested in them and feeling like said men OWE them a lifestyle.
        That’s something to be angry about more than anything.

    6. Ive seen this repeated a lot, but its just not true. If this was the case, then there would be a reasonable case for optimism going forward. But the fact is, beta males have been following the same trajectory for decades now, and theres no evidence of change whatsoever. When they hit their 30’s, and start coming into their own, higher quality women than theyre used to start paying them attention. But instead of enjoying their new-found position of strength in the SMV, the first “hot” woman to show interest him in his lifetime, he marries. It doesnt matter that shes in her 30’s and at the tail end of her physical peak. Shes “the one.” And when shes bored with playing house, she ejects from the marriage so she can go EPLing. But shes often times also a single mother, so that makes her heroic on top of everything. Its only when the betas have their children, homes, and lifesavings ripped from them that they realize the error of their ways. Thats when they become MRA’s, thinking they can warn other men. But if that was possible, why did they end up where they did in the first place? Its not like they werent warned about marriage and modern women. If beta males could objectively analyze the behavior of women they were sleeping with, they wouldnt be betas. Instead, they always believe their situation is unique. “Shes different.” Betas will never learn until they go through the bitter experience for themselves. Consequently, women of every generation who are more than just cute will always have a soft landing spot waiting for them when they get kicked off the carousel.

      1. What you are saying isn’t wrong, so far as it goes.
        But you are assuming that past performance is a good indicator of future returns, and there is some reason to believe that this will not the be case. The women of the most recent generation may find it rather more difficult to parachute out of the SMP and into the bank accounts of a waiting beta sucker. Dalrock has written extensively on this:
        Even if beta males are eager to be scammed by carousel riders, the former sluts are likely to find that there are many fewer men who qualify as beta providers than in previous generations. Many more of these women are going to be without chairs.
        It’s going to get interesting.

        1. the women in uk wont care. theyre making us broke and them going broke wont make them want a provider. they have the nanny state and welfare for that.

        2. Did someone say “parachute”? I simply must write an essay about skydiving. Now that’s balls.

        3. Exactly, as always my uk friend, geography, logistics and economies plays a role in these things

      2. Great comment. I think this is one of the delusions of the manosphere – that women hit 30 and bam! they’re sexually irrelevant. It’s just one of those memes that are repeated over and over, with some link to a Daily Mail article where some chick whines about the players in her past that now ignore her. If these chicks want to get married to a decent man, I’d bet they still very much have that option.
        It’s sort of like a poor man seeing a rich niggard, and the poor man convinces himself God is going to smite him for his stingy ways, because of karma or something. It may console him, but it doesn’t mean it’s true. Guys saying it desperately want it to be true, to make the world fair in some cosmic sense, but hoping doesn’t make it so.
        The current feminist yenta du jour, Sheryl Sandberg, married a multimillionaire of the same age when she was 35 or so.

        1. The “decent men”, though, aren’t as plentiful as they once were, and the evidence behind that is far from an anecdote.

        2. It depends on the woman, some age rather nicely and Sherly Sandberg seems to have been one of those ones.
          But what norbit says is true. Sandberg might have been able to hitch up because she was attractive and well-off, but not everyone has the same fortune.

        3. Good points made Emanuel and I agree. The other factor is that there are fuckloads of love starved, emotionally needy men who will rescue anything, and I mean anything just to have a woman in his life. It could be an old fat gastropod with cookie crumbs in her mustache; it won’t matter. And he thinks that she will treat him well and stick by him which of course she won’t. But most men today have no dignity or self esteem this. Either way, and on multiple levels, females will always have some kind of parachute to protect them.

  6. And this is where many women feel “cheated”. Why?
    Because once they finally feel ready for something more with a guy, that guy has never evolved, or wishes to evolve past just banging her and nothing more.

  7. Women get off on mental masturbation and validation via attention whoring. Today’s smartphones and social media didn’t change human females, it simply gave them the means to demonstrate to men what we really are to them i.e. bank account and useful piece of shit. And yeah one of the most chilling epiphanies is to learn that it is men who are the romantic ones while women play the role of parasite.

    1. DOH !… why is this a surprise…. For centuries men painted their lovers, wrote poems, songs, literature and sang romantic love songs….. as soon as women stepped into the arts, it was “Can You Keep up Baby Boy” & “I Don’t Want No Scrubs.”
      Name one romantic poem or Song Written by a Woman… where is the female Shakespeare, Dickens or even the Female version of the Rolling Stones or Led Zeppelin….?
      Bitches never sang love songs, they just broke hearts….

      1. “Bitches never sang love songs, they just broke hearts….”
        And then sang songs about broken hearts.

      2. Lauryn Hill – Nothing Even Matters
        Alicia Keys – If I Ain’t Got You
        but who knows maybe the songs were written by guys

  8. I always enjoy reading the comments on Hymowitz’s article. The men are making their thoughts known, yet women continue to ignore the elephant in the room…
    They ignore their own lack of self reflection, and their primary role in the destruction of relationships and marriage.

  9. “Many were raised to be precisely the man women now seek to distance themselves from. They were raised with images of more ‘traditional’ relationships in their heads (fueled in part by Disney and the rest of Hollywood), and told to get in touch with their feelings and be more open to expressing them. Many grow up and are shocked to learn that behaviors they considered ordinary and par for the romantic course now mark them as “clingy” and low value.”
    I don’t think there is anything intrinsically wrong if this is how you are wired as a man. I know it’s how I am naturally wired. Having said that, the author is absolutely correct that in the modern dating scene it is a self-defeating strategy for any kind of romantic success, whether you want to rack up notches or get into a long-term relationship. It is a dating strategy that is more appropriate to 1953 than 2013.
    The problem is two-fold: there is a paucity of relationship-quality women out there if a relationship is what you want, so even if you find a strategy that gets a woman interested in you for something more than casual sex you wouldn’t want to keep her around. And like the author said, presenting yourself as relationship and commitment-minded is a turnoff.
    The fact of the matter is that if a woman wants to get married or be in a LTR, she will be married or in a LTR. Honestly once a woman gets past a certain age and remains a bachelorette, it’s because she essentially doesn’t want a commitment. Maybe she is overtly conscious of that or maybe it’s a subconscious desire, but if she wants to be married or otherwise paired up, she’ll find a way.

  10. “As for My people, a babe is their master, And women rule over them.” -Isaiah
    This isn’t exactly new knowledge that we’re uncovering. We are merely repeating history.
    Is it any wonder women were vilified in the Bronze Age texts that become the basis for the Big Three religions?
    We are living in a modern-day dystopia when you analyze the situation thoroughly. Things simply cannot continue the way they are. We are watching a slow but colossal collapse of our civilization day by day.
    If you step back, you can see the situation in Western Civilization is quite toxic, especially with respect to long-term survival. I wouldn’t be surprised if Caucasians went totally extinct as a people within the next 100 years unless something changes in a fundamental way. Sound crazy? Just look at some demographics. Caucasians have gone from 30-40% of the world population in 1900 to perhaps around 15% today to perhaps 2% by 2100 if present trends continue.
    Isn’t it also easy to play the devil’s advocate and see why Islamists hate Western culture? They simply don’t want to see their daughters behaving like one of the sluts in our society, puking on themselves in a nightclub in between sessions of having their skirt flipped up over their face by a stranger.

    1. there are some bad things… sure… but if you look at the level of organisation and technology, it all comes from the northern european brain that had to have it’s shit together to survive the winters…..
      go to some tropical countries and find the shit for brains attitudes, the incredible level of bureaucracy, the filth, the bad organisation, the mindless obstructive purpose that most people have to make their own miserable existence a little more important by getting in your way….
      i’d rather have my daughter puking her guts out in a shiny nightclub in new york and gagging on one night stands, than living in some filthy hovel in Iran or Yemen, physiologically bound and gagged by hippocrasy…

      1. I was by no means defending Islam or praising the Middle East. I was saying that I understand one of the reasons why they hate our society.
        It’s really easy to see that we may have technology and some level of organization BUT we also have women that are running out of control, and Western people are dying out as a result.
        Your daughter may enjoy herself in the shiny nightclub, and you may not care what she does, but that lifestyle leads many to have nobody to carry on their family name and genetic line.
        If our male ancestors could see what our society has turned into, I’m sure they’d be rather contemptuous of the situation, too.

      2. I was by no means defending Islam or praising the Middle East. I was saying that I understand one of the reasons why they hate our society.
        It’s really easy to see that we may have technology and some level of organization BUT we also have women that are running out of control, and Western people are dying out as a result.
        Your daughter may enjoy herself in the shiny nightclub, and you may not care what she does, but that lifestyle leads many to have nobody to carry on their family name and genetic line.
        If our male ancestors could see what our society has turned into, I’m sure they’d be rather contemptuous of the situation, too.

      3. Let’s get real. Written language, large-scale empires, bronze weapons, iron weapons, city architecture, chariots, monotheistic religion etc. were all developed in the region from around modern day Turkey and Syria south to the Levant, Fertile Crescent, i.e. Iraq, Persia, and Egypt. Northern Europe has led civilization for the last five centuries at least, but before that it was Southern Europe, and before that it was the Middle East. Enjoy your cold winters.

        1. yeah and fat lot of good it did them….
          have you visited those parts of the world lately ?
          last time i went to Cairo it looked like an open sewer ….
          Syria… a proverbial paradise, and Iraq… i’ve got my visa application pending… such great opportunities there…..

        2. History runs in cycles. 800-1000 years ago, there wasn’t much doubt about the relative positions of the Muslim and the Northern European worlds. Northern Europe was a relative backwater when stood next to lands in the Middle East and East Asia. The Europeans themselves were well aware of this, their forays to the new world serving in large part as a response to these realities.
          Fast forward to the present and the evidence on the ground would have you denying that such a past ever existed. Northern Europeans and their descendants hold an apparently indomitable global lead, and the rest of the world is either playing catch up (China) or languishing somewhat (Middle East, Africa, etc).
          Even within Europe things ave changed greatly.
          Northern Europe was, from a civilized perspective, a total backwater for most of world history prior to the rise of the great Mediterranean states. If you were in Europe and you wanted to find written languages, strong centralized states, and any sort of advanced technology, you generally had to be close to the Mediterranean. These things arrived elsewhere in Europe only as a result of diffusion from the great ancient civilizations in Southern Europe.
          Fast forward to the present and what do you see? Europe’s most advanced nations are in Scandinavia. Its greatest economic power is Germany. Arguably its greatest modern empire was founded by the inhabitants of the British Isles, whose descendants include other undisputed leaders in global advancements (The USA, Canada, Australia). Western Europe’s biggest basketcases are the region’s former great leaders and sources of advancement: Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece.
          Things change. Who knows what the future will bring.

  11. This is also because the most attractive, sex-oriented males are too busy managing their harem to give any attention to one individual woman, so the men who do have a “girlfriend” are likely to be more “clingy.” Whereas the most attractive, sex-oriented men had more limited options before the sexual market free-for-all.

  12. You forgot about the biggest reason women don’t like clingons: They are juggling multiple men and clingons interfere.
    Does a hooker like if her client hangs on after the deed is done? No, time is money, she has to freshen up and get ready for the next one.
    And stop thinking women like “Independence”. You are erroneously projecting male way of thinking on to them. Women don’t think like that. They want the most they can get, with or without independence.

  13. Sounds like men have low testosterone and haven’t been taught how to be men (obviously)

    1. Sounds like? Maybe. I could say sounds like women have higher then normal testosterone. But it really does not matter how manly you are. The current law structure will negate all of that.
      And the south (sort of) has more white knight manginas per sq mi then anywhere else. However, you encounter more wholesome down to earth women that tend to be more traditional. Some of the coolest chicks I dated were small town girls. And since women don’t venture far from the nest if they could help it, you are what’s there. They settle for their environment, you just happen to be in it.

      1. They might but men in general have lower testosterone levels then they did 50 years ago.
        They are white knights as long as the woman behaves herself

  14. So summary = women are not the enemy, they’re just setting higher standards… mainly because they are sexually liberated thanks to birth control, DNA testing and a shift in social perceptions.
    where it all falls apart is when she gets broody and wants kids…. squeeze out a couple and suddenly all her independence has gone and she goes from high flying blue chip career to stressed, bored, lonely, tired, stay home mom, 30lbs overweight, working 20 hour days to tend to the kids and breast feed the new one…. all while in the throws of post natal depression, with low endocrine functions and various other post pregnancy health issues.
    not a pretty picture….. before any male goes there, he should visit one of the local farms during calving season….
    can anyone say MOO ?

  15. The dating and relationship scene in the U.S. has basically turned into a sad version of the movie “500 Days of Summer.”

  16. men have always been the romantics. we have always been the ones willing to give everything for our wives, children, and loved ones in general. we put a great emotional investment in the people in our lives.
    women on the other hand have ALWAYS put their wants and needs above any emotional connection. she can love a man, but will leave him without thought if he becomes homeless.
    this is why there have been social pressures and safeguards in the past to prevent women from walking away after the man has invested everything he had in his family. these safequards are no longer there and so we have what we have today: high divorce rate and women controlling the world of courting, dating and inter gender relations.
    it is this control they now have that has flipped the script. but the romanticism was always us.
    you cant abandon what makes you a man, even if that is in part romanticism. but to offer anything you have to someone who is going to abuse it is not in the nature of men either. acknowledge that you are emotional, but do not offer that up easily. force people to earn it. that is higher value.

    1. yes, absolutely right…. HOWEVER… it’s very easy for a woman to run a good long con…. it’s also highly likely that even the most romantic family orientated woman will be flipped, if not by media and BS, then by some angry repressed girlfriend that gets into her head…..
      women after kids are also quite tired, stressed, lonely, not in such great shape or health any longer, and prone to become depressed, moody and troublesome…..

  17. Women pick men just as useless as they are. They lap it up from the media that they should be ‘independent’, even though they really are not, and then they try to emulate/seek out to live these stereotypes. There is no point being a financially sound man any more.
    This is social engineering at its finest, to disempower the masses, and its worked. Most men these days have become dependent on government and less independent.
    Women are supposed to be financial and social commodities now, not really mothers or wives. This is what the media promotes. So unless you are top of the alphas or you luck out, keeping one of the rare quality girls out there will be very difficult. I just remember someone once saying something along the lines of seeing increasingly vigorous activity that goes nowhere before a society collapses.

    1. If getting laid is absolutely the most important thing in an American man’s life, then the most effective way to achieve that is to become a scum of the earth. But most of us aspire to more with our lives; which is good, but we need to keep in mind that the accomplishments that we are proud of and that impress other men will bore women.

      1. If getting laid is the most important thing in a man’s life, he’s gonna be disappointed.
        And that’s whether he actually he does or not. On one hand, he may see all these other men gettign stuck with kids they didn’t want and on the other, he may get around to realizing it’s not a big deal and that the female body is nothing to behold ESPECIALLY when a lot of these women’s clothes come off.

    2. a very clever social virus has been sown…
      HOWEVER ! : it goes against the very nature of a woman…. women are suggestive and passive…. therefore….. reverse engineering and destroying this virus should be quite quick and easy….
      it’s a question of a few good men, to set about showing the women they’ve been lied to… after that the women will do the rest…. they won’t be able to keep their mouths shut….

  18. Christ who wants a western piece of shit skank anyway,this article is out of touch. Most men dont want a piece of shit western skank anyway!

    1. Finally, someone who gets it! 🙂
      WHY would you want an Anglobitch when the world is running over with superior females in virtually every corner of the globe?!
      Anglobitch – Risk: HIGH, Return on Investment: LOW
      Other Women – Risk: LOW, Return on Investment: HIGH
      It’s a simple cost-benefit analysis.

  19. Thing is, if women in the West were still outwardly emotionally needy and didn’t confuse femininity with weakness (they will always be needy, on the inside)…like they used to be before 3rd wave feminism; then Men would still be hesitant to commit, and be more distant (which makes them moist)…we could respect each other easier via living up to our hardwired biological roles.

    1. what happens to women in my experience is the hard exterior (fake) gives way to demanding neediness…. (dreadful) and or depression, anxiety, ill health etc. It has to because lack of balance on the front end of the equation is balanced out on the back end…..
      whereas, what used to happen was soft exterior (real) gave way to passively accepting and serving (real), which resulted in good men providing for her needs = everyone happy.
      she supports him to provide for her so she can support him….
      it’s interesting reading all these forums, because slowly we are all figuring out the mathematics of the equation here, and thus ought to be able to reverse engineer the damage that’s been done….
      it’s also interesting to see the difference between knowing something is wrong, but acting subconsciously which usually leads to anger and frustration, verses, knowing something is wrong and rationalising it and then changing behavior to massage the problem.

  20. This is just the symptom of the same disease that have caused other “enchanced” movements around the world since 68 and well before that.
    Sure the solution presented could get you some women, but what if you instead start to become a man, not playing by the rules presented in a game that is rigged to make you feel like a loser or at best a living sex-doll for women? What if you set the rules of your life, to become what you are instead of what the leader’s of the western world want you to become?
    You do realise that there is much bigger things going on than the rise of feminism and the sexual”liberated” society that needs to be fixed? We do need to get rid of the men in power of the western world. The financial in short, because they are not only a threat to the natural state of men, but also of freedom, the people of European ancestry aswell as the other people in other way. But more importantly they don’t care about the world, the nature and it’s inhabitants as their power, their system is everything. Ask yourself if it’s good that IMF has a former member as president in Greece? Is it okay that London has Cameras in every corner and you’re suspicius if you look after them as a civilian?
    1984/Brave New World, the two most scariest and relevant books you can read if you want to grasp a little bit of what could awaits us if we focus on the wrong things.

  21. Totally spot on with this post. I don’t believe in monogamy and its funny to discuss it. When I tell men, they can’t believe that women would ever go for it. However, when I talk to women about it, almost all of them accept and understand it.
    Points 1-4, every man should read them.

  22. Totally spot on with this post. I don’t believe in monogamy and its funny to discuss it. When I tell men, they can’t believe that women would ever go for it. However, when I talk to women about it, almost all of them accept and understand it.
    Points 1-4, every man should read them.

  23. From what movie is the clip above, the one below “Young women are looking for love. Men are dogs”?

    1. I think it is actually from Gossip Girl (Chuck Bass), but I’m not 100%.

  24. TLDR: Women have become broken, lets fix ourselves so we can fuck these shitty creatures.
    And you guys call yourself ‘red piled’? You look for acceptance in women alone, you mold yourself to what they want?

  25. My last two “relationships” began with women who explicitly asked for NSA. Neither was girlfriend material since I can’t pull the 7 and 8 caliber women like in my 20s and 30s. Fine, I liked hanging with these women and fucking them. One of them asked to keep our tryst a secret in the circles in which we met. Towards the end of both relationships, the same pattern emerged: these women got hooked, got hornier, showed desperation. One took our break-up well, the other became hostile (although she has trolled me on FB.) The key is acquiring the right attitude but not becoming a jerk. It’s essential for pulling women.

  26. De-Industrialization of the west gave birth to both the Welfare State and Feminism.
    Outside the home, the man worked in brutally harsh conditions which built character, comraderie amongst peers, and physique that is simply not found today.
    Inside the home, the man was the supreme bread winner and would come home to a feminine, lovely wife that did not need to work to help pay the mortgage. Her duties were being the spiritual guide to her kids while her husband was away.
    Welfare and divorce were unthinkable.
    Fast forward half a century:
    High paying manufacturing has been replaced by entry level service jobs. Families and marriage are extinct, many times replaced by welfare to compensate the absentee parent.
    The corporate environment favors cut throat activity instead of inspiring brotherhood. Women are more detail oriented over men, favoring them over men in hiring new office temps.
    Economic forces combined with political correctness shifted the favor towards women.
    The way to overcome this?
    1] Drop out of mainstream society [which many men are now doing].
    2] Aim to get into the 1%. It is the only class that has resisted the forces that destroyed the middle class in America. Most 1%ers don’t get divorced. Most 1%ers don’t need political correctness. And when they’re under attack, no class bonds together nearly as well as the 1%. Having power in this country makes you immune to a lot of social problems.
    Either way, go forth and do good things Gents.

  27. nonsense. this , as always, only applies to the U.S anyway.
    lastly, I will add that the advice is fucking ridiculous. Saying, in order to get women, we have to effectively be the 1% of men who are rich, successful and again, so rich and successful that they do not require a relationship, as they have having so much fun with their money and so busy with their success.
    It’s like saying, in order to obtain a nice car, my advice is to be rich enough to buy one
    Fuck off.

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