Never Fully Give A Woman Your Loyalty

I’m fortunate in that women feel comfortable around me. I would think the roots of this lay in the results of typical indoctrination from our well-meaning mothers: to be polite and gentlemanly to all women. On some level, we are drawn to this because we subconsciously cast all women in the mould of our mothers, who we feel a biologically-based connection to.

The latitude of lifestyle choices now available to women, however, is diametrically opposed to the “correct” way for a man to live his life, and what is available to him. For many reasons, we must resist our temptation to treat women with deference and respect simply because of their sex.

The West

Men in typical Western reverse-discrimination societies need to grow up and take responsibility for their outcomes by gaming the system. Why? Because the vast majority of women are doing exactly that; playing this absurd game of life using every shortcut and advantage available to them.

I’ve met with a number of women who have shared with me their history of dating and sexual experiences, and what I’ve learned is nothing less than groundbreaking for an uneducated man who still frames women in the same way as his mother. Barring those who have a certain pathological desire for foolish and idealistic circumstances, the typical western mentality woman is simply…

 …doing as she pleases.

wild 2

You Meet A Girl

You think “she seems nice.” You exchange a few messages, arrange a time to meet. You think “she seems different.” Everything seems to be going well. You meet, chat, pay the bill, and go home with a warm fuzzy feeling. You repeat with minor variations, in order to demonstrate your value to her as a mating partner. You feel like you’re falling in love, but it’s probably just infatuation, as she tricks you in various subtle ways into thinking she’s high-value.

She meets you. She immediately sizes you up; an instant classification based on your demeanor but skewed by how she’s feeling today. She’s been on plenty of dates and had plenty of guys over the years, so whatever you say or do is going to slot you into another classification. She knows how this game works and that’s what your predecessors have jumped through all kinds of hoops to get her to open her golden gates. Because of them, she knows game better than you.

The Media’s Role

Because men want pussy, the majority of men are quick to accept mainly gay and feminist-driven, media enhanced ideas about what the “modern male” should be like, because they think this will get them some action. These cultural forces control the message because they are the most predominant demographics in the fashion industry, which in turn influences the entertainment and marketing industries, of which any media must embrace should it wish to be consumed by the popular masses. Popular culture produces offshoots of counter-culture, some of which goes beyond the niche and develops enough to be considered cool or trendy.

As an example, a popular story thread in romantic comedies these days is the put-upon woman who leaves her steady boyfriend and he has to win her back. He’ll jump through a number of hoops and eventually get the girl, whereupon we’re all meant to believe in the notions of “the good guy always wins in the end” and “love always prevails.”

But what about the other narrative running through this film? 99% of the time, we see very little insight into the girl’s experience of the situation; we are simply presented with her, followed by the “new man” poking his head around the door upon the “good guy’s” initial attempts to get his woman back. Who is he? Did she know him before? Was he a colleague? How long had this sexual tension been bubbling beneath the surface, and has she already been sleeping with him?

Is she a trustworthy person? If she jumps into bed with another guy at the first sign of problems in the relationship, is she relationship material? What’s the “good guy’s” mental state?  Does he have such low self-esteem he pursues this type of woman, despite her flagrant and rapid indiscretions?  Why aren’t these issues explored?

Because mankind (via popular media) likes to believe in the female’s role in the relationship essentially being rooted in the mother role—she is the nurturing, caring and beautiful provider of warmth, love, and acceptance that all men should desire to benefit from.


The Mother Figure

We grow up as men accustomed to this idea, as time and again it is impressed and reinforced in us, as in line with femininity. We are encouraged to walk into the world with honorable intentions as new men, looking for our partner. It may well be that you find someone also in the same mentality as you (but derived from female fairy tale romanticism) and become very happy. But it’s more likely they will be nothing like you’ve associated women to be in your mind. In my past life as Jaded, I would’ve been devastated upon realizing the angel I had built up in my head was nothing more than a generic imbecile. Now, I treat it as an eventuality.

Real Life Example

Once upon a time as Jaded, I was invited up to a lake for the day by a girl I’d been dating. She drove, so I was at her mercy. After making a fairly innocuous joke after she aggressively bit a cherry I fed her, I jokingly said I wouldn’t be putting anything else near her lips any time soon. From nowhere, an outburst of emotional reasons why she just wanted to be friends commenced.

After a period of feeling angry with myself for being dragged up to the middle of nowhere to hear this, I proposed leaving as I wanted to get this episode over with. On the drive home I decided to probe a little more into her situation. It turns out she’d fucked her ex-boyfriend two weeks prior, and also had a regular fuckbuddy she’d been seeing since dating me (about a month).

Apparently, she stops seeing this fuckbuddy when something becomes “serious.” I enquired further; what is the decisive factor of something becoming serious?  Her answer was that either you have a conversation where you both agree it’s serious, or the now-commonplace answer of “when she feels it’s serious.”

This is, of course, utter bullshit because it’s completely subjective. In a moment of beta rage at not getting the girl, I proposed based on her logic it could be possible, even if things had worked out between us, she could be sleeping with her ex (who she clearly still had feelings for), the lover, and myself, if she felt like doing that. Barely concealing her satisfaction, she agreed.

The Overall Principle

And that principle right there my friends, is the simple reason why I will never change my mentality towards women. They compartmentalize men. They are capable of incredible deceit and self-delusion, an incredibly dangerous combination when a person believes their actions are just. What’s the incentive to be the boyfriend, when you can get what you want as the fuckbuddy?

There are some exceptions, and these rarities are like gold to a prospector—exceptional to find. But the bottom line is; women have gone off the rails. Most of Western Europe is secular, their moral basis comes from peer pressure, itself derived from what media has normalized. As such, the further the boundaries are pushed, the more becomes accepted in the eyes of the many. We end up where people do as they wish, which is precisely what women are doing after twenty years of reverse discrimination and political correctness. The only remaining legitimate target is the heterosexual male.

My advice to you as a fellow man? Disregard everything you learned about how to conduct yourself in dating, and do as you wish. Disregard that you are dating someone else. Do as you please and with as many people as you wish, for an undefined amount of time. Don’t disclose any information about your circumstance and, if pressed to do so, be brazen about it. Yes, you are still sleeping with other women. Yes, you will continue to do so. If they don’t want to see you again because of this, then leave. Have an abundance mentality where pussy is available everywhere and is no longer a bargaining chip for any type of relationship.

Act as they, with no obligation or duty. Let them prove to you what they bring to your life.

Read Next: The Word “Heroic” Has Very Little Meaning In Modern Times

298 thoughts on “Never Fully Give A Woman Your Loyalty”

  1. “She meets you. She immediately sizes you up; an instant classification based on your demeanor but skewed by how she’s feeling today. ”
    That’s rather good
    Cohesive societies are based upon the social capital of ‘trust’. However there are unfortunately times when trust should be withdrawn, in whole or part. This is such a time. Whether its permanent or provisional is another question.

    1. the “… by how she’s feeling today” part is what is plain silly but the hard reality to swallow. Two similar encounters with the same girl can seem completely different as if you’re dealing with a different animal each time.
      I suppose the ones who are most congruent are either worth consideration, or simply have an attraction to you that may be worth pursuing. It’s up to us to maintain why that attraction exists and what it stems from.

      1. “how she’s feeling today” needs to be her problem as much as possible, through being non-reactive and the one who gives the cues rather than takes them from her. Not easy to achieve

  2. You think “she seems nice.” You exchange a few messages, arrange a time to meet. You think “she seems different.”
    “I’m not like other girls.”
    –99% of girls
    Women are ruled by the Id even more than we are. Don’t believe me? Listen to how your ex-g/f completely re-writes history. Whatever best serves what “works best” for her now. It’s naked self-interest. Stalin would be proud.
    So what to do? You’re going to get a steady diet of shit tests until you break that filly, son–then you’ll still get shit tests, but they will be less about “Is he alpha enough to give my pussy to?” and more about “Is he still dominant?”
    I see so many thirsty guys acting as if the girl they’re talking to is going to be The Last Girl They Will Ever Talk To, Ever. Not a winning strategy. Draw her in, make her chase you, and then mix in some dread. Dread Game keeps her under your thumb. She always has to fear that she’s going to lose you if she doesn’t measure up.
    Her: “Are you seeing other girls?”
    Beta Answer: “You’re the only girl for me, poopsie!”
    Result: The Vagina Tingle Generator shuts down.
    Dread Answer: (looks at her dismissively) “I see other girls everywhere.”
    Why does that work? Remember how women think: everything gets over-analyzed down to the subatomic level. That’s what makes the Dread Answer work, b/c there’s a tiny bit of her that’s thinking, “Oh, fuck! What if he means it?”
    No human relationship is exactly 50/50. You have two options: Rule or Be Ruled. Choose wisely.
    End Transmission,

      1. No offense but you got that exactly backwards.
        Betas hunt women. Women hunt Alphas.

        1. Nope. He got it right. Alphas hunt women. Women hunt and kill betas. If an alpha is captured by a woman her goal is to make him a beta. If she succeeds there goes another slaughtered beta. They want a provider not a guy looking to spread the wealth.

        2. Women fall my lap and throw pussy at me in the streets. Not sure what that makes me but you mention the word “provider”.
          A provider is an alpha by definition. Provision of resources is a man’s role.

        3. No, this is false on both counts. Dating and marriage advice books tell women to allow betas to “hunt” them. Betas make better husbands than alphas, and women know this. That’s why “nice men” are considered superior to “mean men.”

        4. No, this is false on both counts. Dating and marriage advice books tell women to allow betas to “hunt” them. Betas make better husbands than alphas, and women know this. That’s why “nice men” are considered superior to “mean men.”

        5. You don’t understand, they get fucked by alphas their entire life then settle down with beta providers after their hot years are over. They may or may not even fuck alphas on the side or already have kids from a previous alpha that left her.

        6. Dobson, I’m a 22-year old virgin and I’ve never “fucked an alpha,” nor do I intend to engage in any form of premarital sex until I get married. Your views are really offensive and not at all based in reality. I’m getting married at age 24 to a nice, fellow virgin, Indian boy from a similar socioethnic background; I expect we’ll have a wonderful life together.
          Besides, if you marry ethnically Asian-American girls instead of American girls, you may find that our “hot years” last well until our 50s. You shouldn’t be choosing women based on their age or on their supposed “hotness,” you should be choosing based on immutable characteristics like personality, virtue, and character. If you pick a girl for her looks and view her like a depreciating asset, she will view you as a walking wallet, cash cow. Do yourself a favor and grow out of your “Shallow Hal,” racist mindset.

        7. If you reference a dating advice book your comment should not even be taken into consideration. Women have this appeal to what others think in forms of media and text, and it does not show any real input of the individual. Every girlfriend I have ever had has told me that other people say this, or i read this, and it doesnt tell me how she feels.

        8. Well, here we are, 3 years later. How’d that whole no sex before marriage, 6-7 figure salary and marriage at 24 years old to a fellow virgin work out for you?

        9. I’m still a virgin, I continue to do well financially, and I’m getting an arranged marriage to a great guy in 5 months.

    1. Well said. I’d even take it a step further and say that the main difference between Alpha and Beta is the latter’s eagerness to grant a woman his approval. An Alpha understands that approval is valued currency to women and as such, his approval is earned. A Beta’s approval is more similar to ‘Monopoly ‘money as they pretty much let bitches start the game with it.

    2. “Women are ruled by the Id even more than we are. Don’t believe me?
      Listen to how your ex-g/f completely re-writes history. Whatever best
      serves what “works best” for her now. It’s naked self-interest. Stalin
      would be proud.”
      It took me far too long to realize this. In a relationship almost all men just want to know the truth. A woman will make her own truth.

    3. So true,
      You should see what a female boss will say about you once you leave.
      Wow. Truth and integrity are for the in group.

    4. You’re so bitter, and you really need help. You shouldn’t need to play games to win over girls. Perhaps you act like this because you lost your virginity and are now damaged goods?

      1. Actually, I’m not bitter, I’m joyful. Let me break it down for you: I just got back from an extended long weekend in Europe over Columbus Day with a professional dancer and a swimsuit model. They are both “high quality” women based on the standard you enunciated in your reply to Bee Dubya. Of course, they both have a significant advantage over you in that they know how to please a man.
        I had lunch with a former girlfriend of mine while I was there and she brought a friend along. The friend was going to leave to meet her boyfriend, but she seemed to stick around, all the while her phone was blowing up–until she shut it off. When we met up a few days later, the boyfriend had been downgraded to “a guy she’d gone out with once”, natch. The ex told me that her friend was afraid she “wasn’t good enough for me”, although she’s a sweet girl. So not only do I have the dancer and the model, but my former girlfriend still holds me in high enough regard that she’s pimping her friend to me.
        Meanwhile, back in the U.S. of A, I am successful in both law and business–I’m a self-made millionaire, thanks–have the admiration and company of beautiful young women, work that I love that I don’t have to do every day, and I front my own band, and am a guest performer in two others.
        In other words, Life is Sweet.
        I just swing by here in my free time to Drop Some Knowledge on the young men–as I’ve posted here, before, All The Young Men Are My Sons–to keep them from *becoming* bitter and discouraged from all the bullshit, anti-male messages in the media, in academia, etc., which I regard as the biggest danger to young men, so I do what I can to advise them to stay positive, and stay focused on the future, and self-improvement in the face of a left-wing culture that wants to keep them down and deny their masculinity. Think of me as the Escaped Slave who returns to the Plantation bringing News of Freedom! (Hat Tip: Bill Maher)
        Oh, and I don’t play games with girls, other than flirting, of course; I am an extroverted man with a dominant personality, so simply tell them what I expect from them, giving them some structure–I’m not cruel; I’m Firm–and also *exactly* what I’m going to do to them, in no uncertain terms, and then I watch them shiver as the oyster hits the floor….
        You, OTOH, needs some help. For a surgeon-in-training–and let’s face it; you’re trying to be somebody; I already *am* somebody–you should know better than to try to diagnose people over the internet. You are also halfway past your “sell-by” date for finding a husband, and that’s not going to improve as you age, and are pressed for time in residency, etc. So you’re going to be faced with a choice: become a career troll, or find some guy who will marry you and have kids.
        From a societal perspective, it’s better if you become a career troll and thus society’s investment in educating you as a surgeon will not have been wasted. Why wasted? Because if you have kids, you’re not likely to return to full-time work, or work at all, which means that the money spent to educate you in medicine likely wasn’t well spent. So if you want to have kids, you might consider choosing a more family-friendly profession, but hey, that’s your business. Just don’t come crying to me when it doesn’t work out.
        Best of luck to you…you’re going to need it,

    5. You’re so bitter, and you really need help. You shouldn’t need to play games to win over girls. Perhaps you act like this because you lost your virginity and are now damaged goods?

      1. Their women and society are foreshadowing the demise of all of Western culture. No fathers, nanny state, rampant promiscuity, etc. Black women dont even pretend to be cute and innocent so the men see them for what they are. Rappers call women bitches and hoes and they love them for it. They get their red pill education at a very early age.

        1. Don’t forget rampant obesity. Don’t forget males who only seek to be extreme alphas (celebs, athletes). Why do they do that? Because being a regular guy in Af-Am culture is hopeless and pointless. White culture is getting that way. Who hasn’t shaken their head in pity at the dutiful stooge down the street who works his life away just to hand all his money over to a 190 pound beast? When the normal life seems tragic, your culture is in a state of rapid deterioration. One thing that Af-Am culture has is steady sponsorship from a wealthier culture right next door (suburban America). When white America goes this route there will be no culture next door to sponsor their leisurely decay.

        2. It’s incredible what feminism has done to that community. It’s also incredible that the white community has been too stupid not to figure it out.

      2. Partially. However, there are also parts that talk about making it rain on women, or that they will by them anything they want. Which is very Beta.

  3. Im a 48 year old guy and I have to say a couple of things:
    1) Im in the midst of an amazing life – i routinely date women in their mid 20’s and always have a great time with my life – I do whatever I want whenever i want.
    2) Never under any circumstances chase a girl – if she runs out – let her go. Once you chase, the relational dynamic will change forever. No need to be stoic about it, but simply be relaxed. Oh she will come back -if not, so what – you will be tossing new ass anyway.
    3) The greatest power you can have in a relationship is indifference.
    4) The maximum timeframe for a relationship is 3-6 years depending on how you get along with her. Women work overtime to try to get you to commit. After this timeframe, there is too many demands- dont concede, there is another woman will to do heavy lifting for you out there.
    5) Do not marry under any circumstances – its a shitty contract. I have little respect for men that do it.
    6) ALWAYS KEEP YOUR OWN RESIDENCE – even if you move in with someone – have a condo or townhouse you rent out. Better yet, have her move in with you and PAY RENT. Even though i make 4 times what my current gf makes, she pays rent. A girlfriend wants to move in so bad, they will do whatever to get there – set up the CONTRACT at that time – they will still be happy.
    7) When things look like they are going bad in a relationship, dont worry about the relationship, think about the next piece of ass you are going to be hanging out with and banging. You will be doing new things, meeting new people and going new places. Its in the nature of men to explore. People are always so surprised how indifferent i am after breakups – actually, married women typically bang me after breakups – they fucking swarm.

    1. Bloody good advice.
      Not sure about 6 though, as it can be difficult to remove her if everything goes wrong or maybe she gets pregnant. I know the rental contract would help, but I think you would be better renting out the place you own and then renting something together. That way you can always walk away and you still have total control over your own place.
      I found that the key is that you make the time you spend with any girl a fantastic time and be clear that as soon as it’s no longer fantastic, it’s no problem, but you’ll stop doing it. So she is clear in her mind that these fantastic times continue while they keep being fantastic. ie. as soon as she complicates things, causes an argument or tries to control you it will be over.
      This combined with the fact that you can both do as you please while you’re apart, and it puts immense pressure on her to keep the good times rolling, not get jealous/interrogate you/cause aggro and she also has to compete with other unknown women.
      Funnily enough, when I have done this they seem to like you more than ever because your time with them is so much more exciting, entertaining and treasured than with anyone else they are hanging around with.
      When they try and get serious or commit you, you totally honestly say you understand, but as that’s how they feel and you can’t give them what they want you are willing to stop seeing each other.
      They never take this option, they prefer to keep the old arrangement in the hope you’ll end up changing your mind yourself. So it’s a win win.
      But as you say in point 2) and 3), the power is in being totally honest to yourself that you will walk away and not chase.

      1. I disagree – i get rent from her, but I own the place myself – i have my own mortgages – one at a townhouse and the other at a loft. When single, i live in the loft downtown and hang out there and rent out the townhouse. When in a relationship she moves in with me and i collect rent from her, while simultaneously renting out the loft.
        There are two things that come out of this, one – when in a relationship the girlfriends fear the loft – they remember it as i was dating them and other women when we met. For this alone, it puts relational power on my side. As things devolve, or i get shit tested – i mention – “yea if it doesnt work out i guess I will have to move back to the loft”. It drives them nuts and they fall into line. Its a brilliant strategy.

        1. Hate to say this but most states have a term of residence, and if anyone stays beyond that you have to formally evict them, which can take forever (up to 6 months) and cost a fortune if the person knows how to contest every step. Look up state laws on this. And to add further insult, they don’t have to pay you while this is going on. You could sidestep this with a restraining order, but that is even MORE BIASED towards women than divorce court.
          So imaage having an enemy in your home that refuses to leave, and you can’t get them out. It’s like that.
          And by accepting a payment arrangement, that would be subletting…and most landlords are against it for the reason above. On top of that that instantly makes them a resident. I suppose you can make the renewal on a weekly basis to make eviction easier if it gets ugly.
          I had to learn this the hard way. So if you just happen to rent to a girl that is smart and aware about all of this, things can get messy quickly. I’m happy if this saves even one person from dealing with this nightmare of a situation.

        2. When breaking up with someone, treat it like a firing, not an end of a relationship. The recourse you describe would come from emotion. Turn off the relational valve – offer nothing emotionally even when the complaining, crying and negotiations go on and on – go Putin – they will leave within a day or tow, hoping you eventually chase them. Ive never had a problem. Make them worry about the next girl that will love you – let them know that is what you are looking for in life. Women are unbelievably competitive with each other and if they dont know the competition, let them wonder – they will wonder the worst..

        3. Take it from a lawyer, he’s absolutely right. You’d better be familiar with your state and local laws in this area before getting into this kind of rental relationship. You could be royally f’d.

      2. This is what I do with my “gf”. She knows I don’t care about her being with me. The important thing is, you really shouldn’t care! Sometimes when she’s upset and she threatens to go, I just laugh and wish her all good luck. Often I don’t have time for her because of my study, and then you notice the thing women do when you do have an evening for yourself, they try to hijack that spare time. But I stopped giving in to that. Sick of the useless tv-evenings and her everlasting cuddling. Now I occasionally let her make dinner for me, and maybe visit a museum together. The sex is great, but I should be honest and find some new chick (or more) because this got boring. I never could have a relationship, and she knows it. Probably thinks she can change me and hoping I get a good job when I graduate in 2 years. Once you convince her that her pussy don’t give her special powers, she will work much harder for you, that’s for sure.

      1. There are approximately 3.5 billion women in the world, and you can somehow conclude that all are the same. Something went seriously wrong with your brain.

    2. I’ve learned through hard nox, that how the relationship begins determines much of how it ends. Insisting on respect in the beginning, and booting girls incapable of respect goes a long way to harmony in the relationship. Well done sir.

    3. You, Sir, are a champion among men. I agree with what you wrote wholeheartedly. I have found the same in my 40 years.
      1. Most women find a man that is “Captain of his own Destiny” infinitely attractive. As a rule,Doing what makes you happy will always appeal to women. It shows leadership and a grasp of your own needs. When women see this quality in a man, they equate it to being able to care for their needs as well. That certainly doesn’t mean, we have to take those needs on as our own, but having the capacity increases the attraction from women.
      2. I agree that being on the chase all the time will cause a girl to lose attraction about as quick as anything else. However, I would caveat that to a small degree. Occasionally chasing her when she doesn’t expect it, then returning to a studied indifference is like viagra for women. The interjection of caring with the indifference drives women crazy.
      3. Agreed, but with the understanding that indifference is similar to but not actually callous disregard.
      4. Yeah, after the first few years, people get used to the expectations for a relationship, then women often start raising the bar. When the bar is higher than you care for, limbo right under it and then under another one.
      5. DO NOT MARRY. I have been married and divorced. Everyone wants a marriage to last forever, but it’s a bad bet. Unless kids are a part of a MAN’s plan, then there is no reason to financially protect these “Strong independent women.” They want equality, give it to them. And most men that have went through a divorce, only then realize it’s not a marriage certificate, it’s a contract. That contract is basically designed for women and kids, not for men. Marriage was originally only for the upper class (which it is headed back to that place again). It was foisted on the middle and lower classes as a means to keep (at least financially) men from abandoning women with their kids. However birth control has mitigated that need.
      6. Yes, always keep your own place. I have made that mistake too. Not having a place to fall back to is tactically a disadvantage. If you live with her and the relationship ends, you have multiple issues to sort in a short amount of time. If you have your own place, then the other issues are easier to deal with. Maslow’s hierarchy of needs is nevermore relevant than when under stress. Your shelter and transportation are essential to keep in your control.
      7. Keeping an eye on the long game is a good way to not be too upset if a relationship ends.
      8. While I have never thought about resource extraction from women, I guess turn about is fair play in this regard.
      9. Agreed, Feminism might have ruined marriage and family, but it has made life a hedonists paradise.
      Thank you for giving me hope that the future is filled with awesome for us guys hitting 40 and above.

      1. Not sure about being a “champion”, but if you feel so, great – I do have a 14 year old son and there is a way to have kids, yet still navigate life on YOUR terms. I agree with your softer perspective on things and relationships and intimacy can be very rewarding, but much like employment, and other business ventures its a daily contract.
        I was a bit brazen because i think the young men are looking on this board are looking for basic rules of “engagement” rather than honing their skills. It seems that they view success as getting sex – that is really just the start.
        Also, I included number nine because if these young guys are willing to have sex with cougars i wouldnt give the time of day to, they SHOULD be remunerated for it – in one way or another. Cougars are driven by ego, young guys SHOULD exploit it.
        Oh, im grooming my son like a gladiator to make it in the next generation.

        1. Not every 20 something on this site is strictly out for sex. I think that misses the main point ROK tries to make. Being master of my own destiny appeals to me far greater than getting a girl to open her legs. They’ll be doing plenty of that in 20 years when I am a badass. It sounds to me like you’re about where I’d like to be by then, son included.

    4. What you fail to realize is that by thinking like this, you’re only going to attract low-quality women. You’re also weeding yourself out of the genetic pool, which I consider a good thing. Get some therapy, bud.

      1. I have two kids. Genetics are trickier than simply a mother and father anyway, genes are taken from not only the mother and father, but from older siblings too. The elusive Y chromosome will turn up in a mother that never had male offspring. The source is said to be from self aborted children or actual abortions, but who knows? It could be from previous lovers, if so, boy oh boy – things will change.
        Low quality women? Hmm.. Speech Pathology (MS) currently, Hospital Executive (2 kids with her), Anesthesiologist for 3 years, Sole inheritor to 4 steel mills (who wanted my DNA), Successful Interior Designer, Lawyer (also wanted my DNA), Environmental Scientist (wanted my DNA). So, I have no shortage of “quality women”. Throw in the beauticians, waitresses, etc.. But never more than a week or two before those were over.
        The issue is that I am following the parameters set forth by the Feminist Initiative. Women asked to be measured by utility for the purpose of equality, well, you are being measured by utility on all fronts. Get used to it, I would say. Oh – forget protection from men, soon enough a womans pain/suffering/assault will be left with a collective… meh….
        Hebrew name promoting Feminism? Its so stereotypical, I would guess that “Misha” is a fake account….
        Oh, I went to a therapist once with the Anesthesiologist at her request as we were separating – we still didnt stay together…

        1. I’m Indian-American, and my name is shorthand for a longer, Hindu name.
          The issue is that your jaded, utilitarian views on women is going to alter how your children will view 50% of humanity. Women will value you for your money (if you have any), instead of your personality, because you only value them for their appearance.
          As someone going to medical school to become a surgeon, I take issue with defining women by their professions. I prefer to consider women (and men!) “high quality” if they’re genuinely good people with genuinely good motivations. If the women you dated were so high quality, why didn’t any result in marriage? I define relationships as successful if they result in monogamous marital unions. You aren’t with them, so they clearly must not be all that high quality…
          Family systems therapy is only effective when the man WANTS to keep the marriage together. Divorce should never be an option if marriages/relationships are to last.
          What you (and most men in the manopshere) fail to realize is that a lot of young men and women read these blogs in their first year of college and start becoming brainwashed by this messed-up ideology. It’s important to present both sides of an issue, instead of blaming women for all of society’s problems. 50 years ago, you wouldn’t have been able to pump and dump so many women had it not been for first and third wave feminism.
          Finally, I’m not a first or third wave feminist, I’m just a girl looking for insight into the male mindset and a nice husband. Thankfully, I already met a nice boy who I hope to marry one day.

        2. It sounds like you are doing very well and perhaps an attitude like yours would create a more stable society, but unfortunately its not being adopted – nor do i see this attitude coming to the forefront soon. Forums like these do not create opinion, but rather reflect it IMHO. Im glad you found someone, and hope that you can provide the commitment you describe in a relationship. There has been a lot of male shaming in the western hemisphere that I have seen in my time on this planet, and if a new culture can bring some reflection and mutual consideration, I would see it as a positive. Best of luck! Until the, it will be evaluation of utility. PS. In the west, 70% of divorces are initiated by women, with the top 2 reasons being boredom and that they would do well financially.
          I firmly believe most women do not like relationships that go on more than 3-6 years. If the solution is marriage, you are on the wrong forum – you need to take women to task that are “divorce crazed”. If men have the opportunity to project a long term relationship without being foolish for doing so, they will. Afterall, we did in the past, and society respected men for doing so. Now, the protector and provider trope is kinda a fool by society. So, the smart play is dont play.

        3. *Among couples in which both people have college degrees, the wife initiates the divorce ~90% of the time. How are those for odds?

        4. What you (and most men in the manopshere) fail to realize is that a lot of young men and women read these blogs in their first year of college and start becoming brainwashed by this messed-up ideology.
          Young men often find their way to “red pill” sites because of the “messed up” ideology they’re being force-fed in Academia, in which “Equality!” means “F>M”. It is my hope that such young men can be put on the path to self-betterment whilst avoiding the bitterness that often accompanies being told that you’re an Evil Penis Carrier who is Responsible for All The Troubles in the World..
          Women got the society that they thought they wanted, and they’ve never been unhappier….
          À bientôt,

        5. Well, you have to examine both sides. If the husband cheated and the family doesn’t have children, he deserves divorce.

        6. I’m going to be making between six to seven figures as a trauma/plastic surgeon, so I stand no benefit by ripping my family apart by divorcing my future husband.
          The sad truth is that if you really feel like this, you must have had extremely bad luck with women. I have brothers, and I understand how guys think: marriage is a gamble for everyone. However, the risk of getting married is worth it with the right person who will have your back through thick and thin. If you go into marriage thinking it will fail, it probably will, because your pattern of thinking becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.
          I don’t know where you read that women don’t like 3+ year long relationships. Maybe your sample size of women you’ve dated is skewed in that direction, but I think most women want to marry (and stay married to!) their first love, forever and ever. I can’t think of any of my friends who want a short-term relationship that doesn’t result in a lifelong union of soul, mind, body, and trust.
          Rest assured that most women in my generation truly sympathize with men. Men do sometimes get screwed over by histrionic, borderline sluts who bleed them dry in no-fault divorce states. That said, if men are careful to choose good, non-materialistic girls, this won’t happen. Marry a nice girl, don’t marry a golddigger!

        7. If you’re marrying a low-quality woman who cheats on you emotionally, financially or physically, then OF COURSE it’s a bad contract. However, if you marry the right person, it’s a wonderful thing.
          You guys need to read more romance novels and start believing in true love!

        8. Twice you mentioned your studies, and once you excoriated me for mentioning “quality women” under the umbrella of being learned. It brought a chuckle if nothing else. You seem to think that if I place my bets better at the female roulette wheel, then maybe I will have success. I say – dont gamble against the house when the game is rigged against you. 70% of divorces are initiated by women and with both spouses having college degrees, it jumps to 90% initiated by women. As divorce can have devastating effects on men, since society blames them for the divorce – I again say the smart play is dont play. If you were at the table with half your lives savings, would you place the bet? For love? Fleeting love?
          I do appreciate and respect that you are trying to mend / heal the relational dynamic by coming to this site, to learn a bit about men and our complaints, but I also submit the following for your consideration. The providence of maintaining relationships is now with women and in the US they are failing miserably. They are insistent that they want relationships and marriage, yet they are the first to throw them out the door. I think a little self reflection and honesty from the female collective would be appropriate for this before any thinking man would re-consider such an enterprise.
          The second is the level of cheating by married women – without a question it is on the rise. Im 48 and I have seen it in my lifetime. I saw a article where respondents were asked about infidelity in marriage where men responded that about 25% did so, where as about 12% of the women did. The second phase was telling – the surveyors asked again if the participants would be available for a lie detector test in the next phase and the women changed their answers to the tune of 24% cheated. The answers from the men stayed the same. You can argue why but the bottom line is there are a lot of lies to self and others from these women regarding their commitment to relationships if not simply being truthful.
          Again, I appreciate your efforts in coming to a site like this and trying to make headway, but the battlefield is not here. You need to go and address these issues with women, not men.
          Also, if you want more healthy relational dynamics in the future, you should contest the loss of due process in campus courts. This does not affect me, as my college years are long over, but they will affect my son and again, my advice to him will be disengage – the female collective has decided that his presumption of innocence and due process is moot to their perceived comfortable space – so it is not worth it. When on campus, the women should be treated with the same terseness as a colleague at work. Friendly but not familiar and under no circumstances romantic – Its simply not worth it. It seem that the female collective wants men to fear women, so be it – its a smart play to stay away from them. Date a waitress or beautician off campus, then get on with your life once you finish your studies. Women have eschewed chivalry and it no longer exists. Now they accept legislated sexual tyranny, the next to go will be protection. Like the above, when you wonder where all the “misogyny” is coming from – realize its not misogyny, but the female collective is being measured on its utility and utility only. Again, do not blame men for this, for it is the female collective negotiating gender relationships with laws.
          I do wish you luck and hope that you remember these conversations when you reach years 3-6 of your relationship. The pang in your stomach and the stir in you psyche – I told you so ;-). Best of luck in your residency as it can be daunting and consuming of your life and time. Warmest regards and thanks for listening.

        9. well written. off topic: your commentaries are being retro-deleted. if not done by yourself, you might want to change your pass/mail.

    5. What do you suggest for a dude who wants to have children?
      You say do not marry under any circumstances. I do not intend on taking myself out of the gene-pool in exchange for constantly chasing an insatiable high.
      You think children out of wedlock is better? Or?

      1. Having kids is the only reason I see for getting hitched, but better if you live abroad. In fact marry a girl who doesn’t speak English and learn to like whatever kind of food they have wherever she’s from.
        If you live in the States (or other place where the deck is stacked against you), live somewhere that pre-nups are enforceable. That said, child-support is what it is, and your wife may well be awarded cash and prizes for abandoning you. That’s why you need to keep $500K in cash in a safe-deposit box somewhere under a corporate name.
        Not that I’ve thought this through or anything. 😉
        À bientôt,

        1. Any ideas are welcome thanks.
          Its not that I’m unwilling to pay for my own children… I am…
          I’d just like for them to grow up in a decent home. Guess I’ll have to figure that out over time. Statistics simply show that kids from two parent households fare better on average than kids who grow up in broken homes or alone… I’m not a naked mole rat… I’d actually like to raise my children.

        2. “I’d actually like to raise my children.”
          Right, but that may not be up to you. A woman I used to know would say that “Marriage is about love; divorce is about business”, and she could not have been more right. Think long and hard about marriage, my friend–it’s not just that divorce is a great way for all parties to destroy themselves financially, but if you have kids, you’re likely, as a man, to be the non-custodial parent, and you will therefore be more likely to lose control of your kids.
          This is of course, only a possibility. My folks were married for 60+ years and *really* loved each other. Don’t see that much, nowadays. Choose wisely.
          À bientôt,

      2. Without a question, children out of wedlock is a bad idea. However, your time on this planet is finite. For me, i waited until my early thirties, then dated and had two children with a woman who was at my similar socio-economic status. For the first 8 years, I was on the standard plan of every other weekend and paid child support. It worked for me and since she mad so much money herself, my outlay was nominal at best. Now we are at 50/50 split time with my townhouse less than a mile from her place (I maintain my loft downtown). Child support is non-existent and we have a great time with my kids and my current girlfriend who really is awesome about helping out and is establishing a great relationship with them.
        How did I navigate not getting married? Read my response to Misha below – i flat out dont believe in it and the laws need to be changed. The decision for children was mutual and when surveying 30 year olds looks for health, brains, athleticism and looks. I got involved with a woman from Texas who was a bit difficult, but i was not in that relationship for love, but rather for children. We were not married, so i would still go out with the boys and such. Did is lead her on that we maybe some day? IDK….. She was very unhappy for about 6 years, but I did not negotiate with her at all, never argued and if our conversations got beyond business – I would simply hang up.
        Another guy I know went out of the country – he sends money and visits his child every once in a while. For me, being a man to your children really starts around 10 years old. That is when we went 50/50.

    6. Can someone answer me this because I’m really confused by this part of your comment and the replies to it, why get in a relationship at all if this is your stance? There are plenty of women out there who are up for casual sex, so why bother with all the mindgames? Is this all part of the fun or what? I just don’t get why you would bother with all that extra effort when you can just go pick up another woman from the bar or a no-strings-attached dating site, plus you haven’t considered at all that you could have kids until the day you die (not that you obviously want to) but that her body clock is ticking and she has a very small time frame. Wasting her time by implying the relationship is going somewhere now could completely ruin her life and her family’s life, how is that fair?

      1. I would respond, but with only 2 comments, i think you are a fake account – so i dont want to waste my time.

  4. Emotional manipulation is a woman’s evolutionary survival mechanism, without it she’s fucked. The same God that endowed man with logic and reason endowed woman with psychological/emotional manipulation

    1. We should make sure that any attempt at manipulation ends up being counter-productive. Call them out on it! No matter how beautiful they are.
      ‘Nature programmed them to be like that’ is a poor excuse.

      1. I agree, nature equipped men to be brutally violent and ruthless to survive thousands of years ago but we evolved past that to form societies. Women act the way they do because they get away with it.
        Women are very malleable though. They are weak and any suggestion from a man will cause them to change their actions. Asshole game is beneficial for everybody.

      2. Its for regulations on negative female behaviour as it is with negative male behaviour. A woman who ends up abusing her ability to manipulate shall be punished as a man is punished for unprovoked physical violence and murder.

    2. This same God played a cruel trick upon his original creation being man by giving him woman. It is true that women possess superior emotionally manipulative skills than men on average, whether it be biological or divinely instituted it is ignoble and disgusting. I can see why women prefer the company of men even those men who are betas or homosexuals over the company of other women. They know ‘bitches ain’t shit’ because they know themselves. Woman is man’s test in life and a woman’s test may be her own civilisational destructive nature.
      Only the smartest and most thorough men know how to react to woman’s emotionally manipulative ways. All the ‘I love you babys’, ‘together forevers’, ‘I’ll die for yous’, doesn’t mean shit to them, they know in their souls if a better deal came, they’re out like lightening. Men have subconsciously known this for six millennia of recorded history and had put social mechanisms in place to mitigate this destructive female impulse, however the box has been opened and you can either go out and get mowed down or hunker down in the trenches arming yourself to the teeth.

  5. Women ALWAYS do as they please. It’s time for men to do the same. If there is one lesson men should learn, this is it. Women lie, cheat, manipulate, shame, ridicule, compose false histories, feign illness, destroy relationships and whatever else they need to do to get their way. My mother does it, my wife, my daughter, my sister, they all do. And they all brag about what dumbasses their husbands are for taking their shit and falling for their lies. They are treachous. No loyalty, no honor among women.

    1. That is the part that gets me the most… they literally mock their friends and husbands for taking them seriously. As though men were just supposed to know that they deep down don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves.
      We’ve had decades of feminist narrative shoved down men’s throats about how pure and loving and vulnerable women are, and then when we give them the huge breaks they’re asking for they shit on everything… it makes no sense… but that is just women it seems.
      My mom has told me fucked up stories about the women in her office. How they cheat on their husbands with other married men (and then get upset when those married men don’t leave their wives), how they mock their husbands, and just how they focus on the most mundane pointless bullshit.
      I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… Men as a group absolutely have to find a new way of connecting with each other, finding happiness, and finding companionship amongst other men… The entire society tells men to get a wife and kids and he basically ends up isolating himself from everything that he used to enjoy… and in many cases the wife and kids are taken away from him anyways. Men simply need some kind of new masonic temple or something… In our secular times men need to congregate and form music groups, artistic groups, craftsmanship groups, volunteer groups, whatever the fuck… The ‘every man for himself mentality’ is exactly what the women want… when the economy collapses they’re gonna have an orgy watching the men kill each other for what is left.

      1. Great point. My daughter is 32, upper middle class, with a good private school education, and a wonderful, conservative, clean cut husband who is a geniune nice guy, a good provider and excellent father to their young girl. And she has total disdain for him. She constantly ridicules him, mocks him, runs him down to mama, lies about him, while she goes out with her girlfriends on the weekend trying to hook up with tatted and pierced thugs behind his back. She’s told me ALL her girlfriends screw around on their stupid husbands, as she calls them, and most all her girlfriends have secretly had abortions. He adores her, brings her flowers, writes beautiful cards, and does all the romantic things women say they like. And she rewards him by hooking up with tatted thugs at the local bar while he’s busting his ass to give her the good life. That’s real America in 2014.

        1. I’m 27 and I’ve pretty much resigned from engaging in that kind of traditional marriage lifestyle…
          I’m weighing out my options. One possibility is shooting for early retirement, paying back my parents for all the shit they’ve done for me, and living abroad. The other is to start a family that is a little bit more culturally isolated and still has some traditional values.
          When you finally see and accept how the system operates you pretty much have to decide if you’re willing to be taken advantage of in order to get certain benefits and comforts… or if you’re willing to abandon ship.
          This is what I hear when I hear modern marriage: working my ass off for a wife that doesn’t appreciate jack shit that I do, that goes clubbing to have sex with posers that don’t give a fuck about her, that is hypocritical enough to freak out if I flirt with a half-decent looking woman, that could explode my life… take half my shit… and go on vacation while I end up financially ruined… This simply does not compute with me.

        2. I didn’t wise up and take the red pill until I was in my late 30s or early 40s. By then it was pretty much to late for me. But based on my experience with women, and my friends and peers experience, I’m 100% against getting married. Even if you think you’ve found the right woman, the system is so biased against men that it’s not worth the risk. You can lose your career, your wealth, and even your life if you marry the wrong one. You young guys on here that took the red pill when you were young are so fortunate. If I’d known all this in my 20s, my life would be so different.

        3. It doesn’t compute with anyone who has a sane & balanced mind. American society and the women who reside in it are fucking nuts. Everything is backwards.

        4. Wow, I have a similar situation with my 21 year old sister dating a 40 year old drug dealer. Repulsive.
          I lost all love and admiration for her. Would much rather see her with a clean cut beta.
          In a sane world, we would be able to discipline these women and force them into obedience.

        5. I see the same thing with my 20 year old cousin…
          She used to be this happy sweet girl and now I can see the contempt in her eyes for normal dudes (her and her friends routinely drink and party at male stripper joints and go to their after-parties… no exaggeration)… I’ve tried to play the older cousin to help her out with school when I can and I honestly feel like she sees more as a beta-orbiter than a family member… Its fucked up… I’m not gonna game my own cousin to have a relationship with her… wtf is that?
          Not to mention her younger brother has become an utter shut-in. Her and her friends mock him for being bad with the ladies… I told her to her face once in frustration “Well… instead of ganging up on him and treating him like he’s a loser (btw he’s fucking normal not mentally challenged or anything) why don’t you girls help the poor kid… or just be nice to him?”. I saw her look down in a moment of shame and regret but then her and her friends just continued on… and since then my relationship with her has stalled… Family life is being affected by this just as much as the dating market is… The whole thing is fucking sad…

        6. Its third wave feminism, which coined the term sex positivity, which says the female should have unlimited sexual freedom regardless of impact on others. Your daughter is a cunt, sorry. Blame american culture?

        7. 2014 female logic:
          Man who actually truly cares and loves her = stupid beta
          Man who just wants her for her body for a couple minutes = cool, hot Alpha
          It sounds like self-loathing to me. Its like they know they suck so they know youre stupid for taking them seriously.

        8. You should game her. Constant biting criticism with no anger and a wry smile goes a long way. Oh congrats on fucking that dude..he looks like he doesnt have too many stds. Do you girls always foam at the mouth like that? Its good practice.

        9. Do you ever call your daughter out when she puts her husband down? Do you call out your wife for allowing her to put him down? Just curious, sounds like you tried to be a good dad, but it didnt work out.
          OT, but theres a new show on bravo tv about singles dating- a 34 yr old woman(successful dr) lied, turns out shes 42, and she was pissed about how men reacted to this. she also froze her eggs, which is pragmatic given her advanced age, but a huge turnoff…

        10. Exactly… How could they respect a guy who would love such a dumb slut as themselves? That’s why they love guys who don’t give a fuck about them… and then if they manage to secure some investment out of him they think he’s an idiot once again.
          Round and round the carousel goes… I wonder how this is going to end.

        11. There was someone else who said something similar about their daughter as well. This makes me sick thinking what my sisters will be doing once their grown up.
          Edit: It was dr.Orange

        12. And it was someone who rightly said (I think it was AV8R) that its not the fact that women are such low quality that we hate them… its really their rampant egos and lack of compassion for the people affected by their actions that is so despicable…

        13. Yeah that’s the plan… He is pre-20s… dunno if he could handle swallowing the RedPill yet tbh… but I’ll definitely try and help guide him along.

        14. It must be a miserable existence to despise anyone that likes you, its probably some kind of cognitive disorder.
          I would imagine it doesnt end well when you despise happiness. These women should be left to chase degenerates and have degenerate babies. The resources of good men should be used to make life better for other good men; leave the sluts and thugs to ruin each other.

        15. Because both sides are in a state of 100% projection. Men are romantic, loyal and susceptible to oneitis so they project that on to women, assuming that it is what women are. Women are selfish, animalistic, shallow and disloyal so that project that on to men. “Men are dogs” while 75% of divorces are initiated by females and another 20% are simply mutual.

        16. It’s also a mechanism that keeps feminism stoked. “Men are bad…except for men who are good…Oh, but good men aren’t really men, therefore all men are bad.” Feminism, in whichever myriad form, keeps firing on all cylinders and the promise of feminism endures; women get to think what they want in any situation regardless of anything (my definition of feminism).

        17. You wouldn’t believe how cheaply you can live in other countries. If you have $1000 coming in from say a rental, that is like executive pay in most 3rd world countries. Most men will never know how truly rich they are or how much of a king they could have felt like.

        18. Education is always a long slow process, how much would your life have been changed if you at least had the red pill ideas in the back of your head even if you hadn’t learned to agree with them yet?

        19. Ok so women think that if a guy goes out of his way to do things for them, they think that hes a desperate chumb begging for her validation or sex, not because he really cares for her well-being . That makes sense.

        20. The red pill is most important when considering marriage and kids … if you didn’t get it, but still avoided kids and a wife, kudos.
          I don’t feel bad for some 17 year old who can’t get laid … more concerned about guys having their wealth destroyed by domestic commitments.

        21. It’s a shame. And….I’m sure your daughter plays the “victim” roll very well.
          Her husband needs to stop the bus and tell her to GTFO…that would straighten her out. Most women just stand there with their mouth open.
          Guys need to step it up and start blowing off some of these bitches.

        22. My little cousin was an absolute sweetheart when I left her neighborhood (at 11) and moved away. We grew up together from birth. As a youngster, she was super-sensitive (genuine) and had exactly the temperament a girl should have (subtle, jovial, sweet etc.) and then instead of marrying up a decent guy and having a good life (which I had hoped she would), she turned into a slut (at 14). When I came back with my parents (at 14) she had already degenerated. Eventually after a while, I just stopped talking to her. The little cousin who was like a sister to me is dead, and the slut thats taken over is all thats left. Her dad (my uncle) was always forceful and ruled over her growing up but something must of happened somehwere along the lines to transform her. Dont know, dont care.

        23. Reminds me of how my exgf is engaged to a 45yo possible child molestor. Its ridiculous but at least the beta in me died.

        24. Fuck yea man…. that’s what I’m saying… Save enough to survive off Google dividends in some less complicated country.
          While you’re there you can start an online business, learn to code, make love to beautiful women, warm up near the fire… Beats the fuck out of Starbucks.

        25. As dismal as that all seems Clark, I think you’ve got your reality specs on…do not remove them. I’m one of the many who’ve been financially & emotionally hobbled for being foolish enough to believe that marriage vows would be honored. I now work my ass off to give a large portion of my income to ingrates.

        26. Some form of societal collapse is how this ends…I think that is becoming increasingly apparent to many, whether they say so or not.

        27. I’m not sure we’ll make it to mid-century as an intact culture after reading these reports. I’ve cut interaction with females to the barest minimum for more than a decade…sounds like conditions are really going off the rails. ‘…all we have to do to collapse society is keep giving in to women’s demands & keep minimalizing masculinity…’ in other words continue what we’ve been doing for the past 45 years.

        28. It’s the incredible ‘actress’ skills that get to most of us…that & the projection upon them of our own fantasies/desires.

        29. If he is 16 or younger, don’t show him a thing. If he is seventeen or older, maybe eighteen is a firm age, have him read the manipulated man. Then graduate him to asking strangers, preferably women, what is their view on honesty in a relationship, especially in regards to rejecting the opposite sex or terminating a relationship. Tell him to pay special attention to the sadistic gleam that women have when they ditch “a loser”. Might be good to do this with him. Can sit him down for a Q/A later. I don’t know the kid but it is a cross between bursting his bubble and keeping him non suicidal.

        30. Oh yea, she plays the victim. Says her husband doesn’t meet her needs and all that bullshit. I tell her she is suppose to be supportive of him as the bread winner and head of house. Her mother and grandmother filled her head with this feminist nonsense and it’s destroying her life and marriage. But you can’t tell these women anything. They know it all. As Aaron Clarey says, just enjoy the decline.

        31. Yea I definitely call her out, but y’all know how it is. I’m fighting a losing battle. Her mama and grandma were her greatest influences, and they hate men. She grew up watching Oprah and Dr Phil and all that nonsense. It’s sad. Once the culture gets a hold of these women, it’s hold to reach them anymore. I’m trying to give her husband the red pill and wise him up, but he’s young and still trying to figure things out. I say these things to warn young men not to even engage these women. They’re a lost cause.

        32. Unfortunately yes. I gave her a good raising, a good stable home, a private school education, religious training, paid for her college and tried to instill good values in her. But between the women in the family running down men, Oprah and Dr Phil, college brainwashing, the culture, etc, it’s a losing battle. I posted this just to warn young men not to even engage these women, even if you think you have a good one. American women hate our guts. Why waste your life trying to please a woman who has contempt for you. Stay single, find your mission in life, have hobbies and do things you enjoy. Woman are a waste of time, energy and money.

        33. Down south, I constantly hear women refer to their husbands as stupid. My stupid husband did this, my stupid husband did that, etc. You’re right. If you take them seriously or buy their shit, they have utter contempt for you. The main thing young men need to learn about women, is they have no honor, no loyalty. The only person they truly care about is themselves.

        34. Screw that shit, give him the red pill
          I go to the gym and wake up every kid I meet from 14 and up
          I use the same old routine, buddy up with them, talk about chicks and then bring on the “ever notice how chicks fucking disappear after you buy them drinks in a club” or some story that they experienced and can relate to and slowly work my way in inch by inch (you really have to dose it randomly with a mix of semi serious jokes)
          I make them realize they will be the 24yo losers with a 2001 rustomobox civic if they keep chasing women and pussy begging
          I tell them never spend a dime on women, work out, save money, build themselves financially and never trust or take women seriously
          I woke up my own cousin when he was 13 when he was having “girl” troubles. Today at 21, he is top of his class, paid off 2008 top shape BMW and zero debt and he is only flourishing from there
          His parents(my uncle specifically) thank me every day for shaping him into a man at a early age

        35. so you were there. then when did she stop giving you what you wanted? when was it that you noticed, that you kept giving but she stopped answering in kind?
          i’m not saying the outcome would have been different, i’m saying i want to know, if you can remember when or how that tide turned. if at all possible.
          perhaps my own frustration projected: one sister genuinely adored my dad, turned passive aggressive but at least not a slut (though now past the wall and lost), one sister a rapid feminist now wifed to simp beta, one sister a literal cat keeping spinster. i want to know, how to avoid my father’s outcome, should i end up where you were.

        36. I noticed she started to change around 14. Up till then she was really a sweet kid. By 17 she had totally changed into a narcissistic, selfish, man using, man hating ingrate. How did this happen? I really believe her greatest influence was Oprah and her man hating grandma. She was always quoting Oprah’s feminist crap, and her grandma was always running down men and showing disrespect to her husband. And of course the culture, the computer and the smart phone have pretty much taken the place of the parent. I only say this to warn you young men not to even think about getting with these women and ruining your lives. They are no worth it.

        37. Yeah, I wish i had know all this years ago before wsting time, money, energy, and years on long term relationships that I thought would be my last relationship. I am so much happier now that I am playing the same game women play.

        38. Dude..been there, get an Asian wife. I did that and she’s pretty cool (as far as women go). A lot more traditional and family oriented, divorce and screwing around is like the worst possible trangression in her culture. We need to get back to that.

        39. So you’re from the west but you booked it to the philippines to marry and have kids?
          Your assets are still in the west and relatively safe?
          This sounds proper dude… you’re inspiring me.

        40. Basically I left the west at 23 in search of something better.
          I didn’t want a mortgage till I was 70 and a bitch maoning and complaining even if i provided the world for her (product of divorced parents and watched this drama unfold before my eyes).
          I headed off to Indonesia and have been here since, for 7 years. I am now married to a Filipina girl, and we are moving there next year, where I’ve agreed to buy a house and provide in exchange for marriage, family and love. One thing i like about it is the expectations on both sides are’s seen as a contract and that’s exactly what it is although i have no doubt she has genuine affection and care for me.
          ALL my assets are in the UK or Australia (where i work month on month off offshore). All i stand to lose is a house which has to be bought in her name, but since divorce doesnt exist in The Philippines and society would shame her into submission for even thinking about leaving me or her kids, it wont happen. Not to mention the fact that if you meet a decent woman here and you’re a provider she will generally worship you, since there is ZERO social security of government entitlement, having a good man who puts food on the table is like winning a lottery ticket.
          Believe me, there’s better out there pal. Don’t give up, but even out here always keep your eyes wide open – marriage is a deal to procreate, nothing more or less.

        41. Hey thanks for the response man that is a fucking awesome story 🙂
          You should seriously consider writing an RoK article on your experience and taking life by the balls.
          A lot of us RoK dudes are considering this sort of thing but we’re not quite sure about this decision… Its easy to question oneself and think one is just making problems up… thing is it will be already too late once the water is boiling. An article from someone with your experience would be great food for thought around here.
          I am lucky enough to have great parents and I’m grateful for that… but I really do feel like I’m watching the culture around me gradually coming apart at the seams… It really is starting to seem like things are not making sense around here anymore (financially, socially, culturally, spiritually).
          So yeah man. Really consider it. And thanks again. Cheers.

        42. I’ve submitted one and let’s see what happens.
          In the meantime while we wait and see if it gets playtime, if you like you can check out my own site. It’s
          I’ve written a lot on there about my move out to Asia and some other semi-useful stuff for guys. Thanks for encouraging me to write that article, it’s been a long time brewing in the back of my mind and seeing your comment inspired me to hash it out and submit.

        43. You are not safe.
          I used to be under the same illusion as you are.
          She can come to the U.S., pick a state, any state, stay there for 3-6 months (depending on the residency requirement of that state) and sue you for divorce in the U.S.
          She does not need to be a legal resident of the U.S.
          Remember, many tourist visas allow a foreigner to stay here for 6 months.
          This is from a legal opinion I got. Not my own opinion.
          A lawyer I know took the woman’s side in a divorce exactly like this situation.
          You can only hope she may not be capable or knowledgeable enough to do it

        44. I had an older cousin like that. She was like a sister to me. Then she became a sloot and I tired of her dramas. We’re not even in touch now.

        45. Abandon ship. I did, about 20 years ago. I live in an Asian country, I will never again live in America and will never again date an American woman. They are the coldest, hardest, cruelest creatures on the planet. Hemingway said it long ago and he was right. Basically, they hate us and since they are our enemies, we should treat them as such. American women are nothing but cobras. White men, indeed all men, need to band together and promote our own cause. Women have no respect for nice guys and will only respect us when we treat them the way Bloods, Crips, Mongols, Hell’s Angels and other thugs do. They are programmed to respect thugs and warriors, not nice guys.

        46. So true. Young men need to be informed, but no publishing company will publish a book that tells the truth about just how predatory, mean-spirited, selfish, cold and cruel American women are. Never happen, because it is politically incorrect and America is no longer a society that values freedom of speech. It is a new socialist dictatorship that is rapidly becoming a sinking ship, a society falling apart. Get out. I did.

        47. Wonderful story. You are helping men free themselves from slavery to outdated romantic illusions about women. Good work!

        48. You don’t suppose the American woman has rebelled against the while male tranny do you? The white male double standards? Young boys/men just want to have sex and then move onto the next (getting experience as they say) … that is love, a loyal beta, a good guy (using someone for your pleasure)? Hmmmm amazing you can’t see that when you use something it eventually puts up walls and eventually tries to reverse the situation. How many men on here had sex with x number of girls just to be having sex? Do you not suppose that all those x girls hearts were shattered and now they are broken? SO look around, how many girls have been used and discarded and now will no longer allow themselves to be used without first using another? Sex for the sake of wanting for no other means than pleasure and building “experience” has consequences which we see today where no one trust no one. Sex involves giving of our most valuable self and many men see that as no big deal, sex is just sex. However, now as women see it as no big deal it is a problem? How many men of the past and current feel justified in having an affair? It is just what men do. Now men are getting hurt and it is somehow or another a big deal? It is just what women do. Surely you can see how people (especially women) have evolved to protect themselves against the male double standard? Have there been strip clubs for women? Have there been prostitutes for women? How many women have been raped and it viewed as no big deal … as that is what women are for? Classical male entitlement that women finally have decided enough is enough. If you want to be pissed be pissed off at men who decided they needed so much “easy” no strings attached sex. Men brought the “no loyalty model” to the Western World … guess they didn’t realize what consequences it would eventually have. Guess men don’t like being used either do they? Women went to work because they had to … men wanted sex without strings … you got it … the strings can be easily snipped. Do you even have some inkling what women have put up with (this type of behavior that disgust you so) for how many years? I watched my Dad chase pussy while my Mom stayed loyal … we all despise my Dad. So, I get you disgust … are you equally disgusted with the men that you see behaving as such or is it just the women that disgust you … in other words the golden double standard?
          I am now in my 50s … I trust no man. My goal is to enjoy their company but I always have walls up … men just want to have sex with me, I fell preyed upon. All conversations leds to sex, balls, and penis … so how can I not think that is all a man wants? Men think they are being funny and cute with talk about sex, balls and penis … same men who believe themselves to be good guys. I can trust no man. Since I can trust no man why would I be loyal to a man? A man that is always looking for easy sex or sex opportunities? Isn’t this what grieves the men on this site? Substitute man for woman. Men have treated women like this and now women treat men like this. We all started out with wishing to find love only to be used and thrown away like trash as people stomp through life pursuing their “rights”. I ended up at 20 having to have an abortion because the man that “loved” me … we had been together for 4 years … wasn’t ready for what sex produced. Do you know how many women have “loved” a man to then have to deal with the incredible difficult task of murdering an unborn child because the person who professed to love her walked out on her? Did all this free sex create what we are all dealing with now? I will never trust a man again … if sex is available he will be tempted and many times engage then lie to me and tell me how loyal and faithful he is. Men rag on here about getting married then divorced and losing things … what do you think women have lost since the beginning of time when their male companion was unfaithful (embarrassment, loss of self esteem, risk of losing home for their children, etc.) … is there discussion amongst your red pill group on actually holding men accountable for being a good man? Or is it always the women’s fault that a man is bad? If so surely you have to realize women aren’t going to eat that BS. Who held my 20 year old boyfriend accountable for not being present when WE got pregnant … I heard men telling him to RUN, enjoy his freedom, etc. That is the good guy example?
          Maybe it is time for the fourth wave of sexual revolution. Call men sluts, cunts, whores … shame them for their sexual identity as men have for all of time shamed women (which is no longer working … women now take pride in having conquest the same as men and it is disgusting men the same as it used to disgust women when men gloated as such). So how do we make this a better place? What do we tell our daughters and our sons? Does only one gender get to have it their “way”? How should we treat each other? I read on her a girl at 14 having sex with a boy is a slut … what is he? Surely you men on here aren’t so stupid to see that double standard is no longer going to work. I’d like to eat chocolate cake all day and stay slim but only a moron knows that doesn’t work.
          Or is all the bitching on here just men who can’t get laid and are pissed off at women for not bedding them? You now I’ve dated a lot and I still won’t have sex with a DA who has no class (you know the ones who start talking sex, ball, penis at diner)

      2. “I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… Men as a group absolutely
        have to find a new way of connecting with each other, finding happiness,
        and finding companionship amongst other men… The entire society
        tells men to get a wife and kids and he basically ends up isolating
        himself from everything that he used to enjoy… and in many cases the
        wife and kids are taken away from him anyways. Men simply need some kind
        of new masonic temple or something… In our secular times men need to
        congregate and form music groups, artistic groups, craftsmanship groups,
        volunteer groups, whatever the fuck… The ‘every man for himself
        mentality’ is exactly what the women want… when the economy collapses
        they’re gonna have an orgy watching the men kill each other for what is
        I totally agree that we men need to depend on, help, encourage and in general be there for each other. Modern PC left wing society is chewing us up and the results aren’t pretty. As for the last part when TSHTF women will find themselves at the mercy of the third world savages the PC elites have unleashed en masse in the advanced nations. Real and dependable masculinity has been beaten and shamed out of us. Hey you “ladies” out there. Want to know what your future will be like? Read about what happened to the German women after WWII. Read about what is happening to Scandinavian women at the hands of Muslim immigrants now. Learn about the life of women in godforsaken nations all around the world. You have emasculated western man and the day is likely to come when you will wail out in fear and terror for us to come and save you. Only this time we may not be able to.

        1. Yeah I really think this is the smartest course of action for RedPill men… form groups as you complete your mission of attaining self-reliance… Find RedPillers in your area and start developing bonds of loyalty, humour, and tactical outings. This is Jack Donovan’s idea and it really stuck out to me as an actionable path.
          Your corporate boss isn’t gonna give a fuck about you… your gf isn’t gonna give a fuck about you if you fall onto hard times… you need allies out there and practice in coordinating with each other… you need time together to discover each others’ strengths and weaknesses.
          For a lot of young men traditional family is out… form groups with male allies… its not like the world is any more fair to them than to you… there is a reason Fight Club was such a popular movie… I think on some level we all want to join Fight Club in some form or another… beats the hell out of Starbucks.

        2. ” when the economy collapses
          they’re gonna have an orgy watching the men kill each other for what is
          If the economy implodes like that, women are going to be sorry. When the gloves come off and there are no more rules, they will be fair game for the masses.

      3. Yeah you see this in other cultures..the boys going out to have a laugh, but its kind of been lost in several feminized cultures.

      4. Male spaces have been destroyed by feminists. Men need to build new male spaces, but even the new ones keep getting shut down by feminists. So men either need to get together low key like in garages or basements, or need to get loud and fight for a male space.

    2. Thank God all of us guys are banding together to discuss this topic. Until a woman enters your life she is a woman. When she has the opportunity to apply influence, she is a terrorist. Treat her as such and DO NOT NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS.

      1. Agree. Always watch her actions and ignore her words (they are meaningless). Women use words to manipulate or shame a man.
        Walk away when needed.

    3. Agree. It’s time for that gravy train to come to an end. I know many women find me “disgusting” when I tell it to them (like it is). I don’t sugar coat things and I damn sure won’t cater to a woman.
      I love using the “well, you wanted equality” line. Women only love equality when it suites them.
      Fuck it, you pick up that bag and carry it. Welcome to 2014.

    1. And if you did (marry), oddly enough, her only loyalty would be to your bank account as well. Point taken.

  6. In relation to the meeeedia and popular culture (?) that fuking show Sex and the Shitty has a fuking lot to answer for….. “Sex and the Shitty lifestyle” and all that bullshit. Mr. fuking Big…. was it the size of his cock? When I hear a woman describe a man as her Mr. Big I just know she’s more than a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Needles to say it was a queer that came up with that hideous, vacant, kunty TV show. And you still hear wimmin bang on about it…..fuks…..

  7. This piece makes a very important point that every man should understand.
    The West is now entirely a secular society and culture. There is no higher moral standard. No doctrine, religious or otherwise, that stands above, apart from, and unmoved by the forces of secularism.
    There are many virtues to a secular society. However, the West has taken this to an extreme, believing that it is the job of government and laws to beat down and destroy any belief system that stands above or apart from it. In this worldview, no religious or other moral system is allowed to exist without explicit authority given it by government. The “progressives” of the West have seen something they like in China and adopted it for the West.
    Hence, you have things like Obamacare superseding and obliterating people’s religious beliefs. If you think abortion is morally wrong, well fuck you! You have to pay for it anyway. There are a million examples like that now.
    You can’t do anything about it. What you do need to do is RECOGNIZE reality. Since there is no other moral system than secular culture, all norms of behavior and beliefs are now defined by secular media, cultures, and government (which is run by know-it-all bitches and their White Knights). Women go with the flow, and the flow is exactly what you see in media. “Empowered” means fuck whoever you want. “Equality” means, “we are free to be bitches.” And so on. The are now celebrated for doing the exact opposite of what is good for them.
    For a man, this ultimately means you cannot trust a woman in the West. You might fool yourself into thinking you have love, but you will sure enough find that you are wrong. The first few times you think you have found love, and then love selflessly (as men often do), you will end up devastated.
    As you walk through the West, if you are dealing with reality, you are viewing women as options for short term pussy and nothing more. PUA is an odd obsession to me, but they have a point. If you want pussy, you should approach it like going to the Apple Store. You look around, approach what you want, ask for what you want. If the price is too high, or its just not for sale, just move on to the next item. Don’t give it a moments of remorse. No woman in the West is worth remorse.
    This is harsh stuff. But to get some joy out of this life you must deal with reality, not fantasy. If you grew up in a fairly normal environment, your mother loved you. But no other woman in the West will ever love you. They have been instructed not to love you, to use you, and to pursue their own desires. They are incapable of love even if they wanted to love. The only love a Western woman is capable of is narcissistic self-love.
    I’m sorry this is reality. It hurts to come to this realization. But you must. If you do not, your life will be ruined. I’ve been there, done that. And learned my lesson. If I want to feel a woman’s love, I go to another country where woman are still capable of genuine love.

    1. I’ve learned my lesson too after two marriages. I so wish this wasn’t true, but this is the world we live in. Western women are a joke and completely unfit for marriage. Hell, if I travel to other countries I’ll still be wary of marriage. She’s got some provin’ to do if she wants this high value male.

    1. Its 100% learned – when you throw off societal construction, you become alpha and also feared.

      1. I don’t think so. In the real world there are chiefs and indians.
        Not everyone can be a chief.

        1. Agreed, but the question was is it learned or not. The Indians are learned to be beta – the chiefs asserted their Alpha. The guy born on a desert island will be alpha and tough to deal with once interlopers come in. Alpha is an internal reflection of self.

        2. Laws of protection essentially have allowed beta men to lie cheat and steal their way into alpha positions. “The Real World” has changed. The same laws protecting women now support lesser men than what was once considered alpha. There are chiefs over alphas who do not belong in their indian roles because they’re unwilling to stoop to the level of the neo-alpha. Just like on occasion a woman is truly a good catch in the west, so goes an alpha who wasn’t acting like a little bitch to get there. PCism, liberalism, feminism, have all ushered in a new era that we are all dealing with now which wasn’t here in the past.

    2. It is natural in any group of males for all males to attempt to be dominant and masculine, but ultimately the other males will give preference to the most dominant alpha male. This is how humans have evolved.
      What is unnatural (and taught by modern culture) is for some males to value the status of beta and purposefully act that way, rather than striving to be alpha and masculine.

      1. Another unnatural thing is how quickly the voices of Gen Y have altered. I know it’s been discussed before but the octaves of men and women are doing a neat swap. Women are in a state of flat growling, even asking for the ketchup with this, “I am strong. I will not be denied,” inflection in their voice. The millenial men are started to coo like young mothers talking to a newborn. I can’t even be around it.

    3. Read the Manipulated Man by Esther Vilar. The Polygamous Sex is another good read too. I would like to believe the majority of the behavior is learned and later reinforced by an opinion that it is innate to not question whether you were lied to by all the women you’ve ever met.

        1. Will check it out man, cover looks awesome . I’m currently reading Nicomachean ethics, tough read for sure .

    4. I think testosterone makes men less empathetic. Thats where alot of natural players come from.

  8. “Act as they, with no obligation or duty. Let them prove to you what they bring to your life.”
    This principle should be repeated at the end of every article here at ROK. Brilliant.

  9. I could not agree more with this article. So much Red Pill here that it should be required reading for every male 15 and up.

  10. In a real society based upon a masculine hierarchy the rank order would be based on respect, loyalty, and courage. In other words we would have alphas who were virtuous, whereby other men deferred to their superiority. These men would have earned their status via performance (war, industry, or cultural achievements) … this status would give them access to the most attractive young women.
    Today, the natural alpha archetype has been destroyed. He was once the most sexually successful, but also the Guardian of pussy. He would marry his daughters to the right men.
    Modernity is an inverted hierarchy where the alpha thug and omega smart ass are the sexual victors because there is no virtuous alpha there to kick their ass when they transgress. The natural alphas of modernity are either apathetic or culturally suppressed. Natural alphas should be excluding thugs, omegas, and degenerates from mating, along with slut shaming loose women.

    1. There are far too many sociopathic, fake “alphas” skewing society. For some reason which I can’t put a finger on, we have a society where the virtuous man finishes last.

    1. No sympathy for any of the guys I saw doing this. How the fuck do you commit to some chick who didn’t put you first?

  11. The do as you please advice really cannot be overstated in it’s importance. An interesting thing to note is how badly women will tend to view this mindset in men, I have heard it said we hate in others most what we dislike in ourselves. Then again, maybe women are just too solipsistic to even know that they behave in much the same way.
    For some time now my stock answer when explaining my behaviour to women has been ”just imagine I am as selfish as you, and it will all make sense”.

  12. This is too true in so many lives of Western men. We were raised by fathers and mothers to treat women as sweet, kind, selfless and above all infallible. If they cry it’s because of you. If they seem despondent, it’s the world closing in. If they fly into anger, somewhere there is a man responsible. It’s like Jack Nicholson’s character aptly put it:
    Helen: “What do you think about when you see a woman?”
    Jack: “I think of a man, then I take away reason and accountability.”
    I have yet to adopt this mindset completely. My inner-nice guy, fostered by 2 decades of upbringing, still rears his head in situations that should bring out the callous asshole.
    Case in point: I recently arranged a date with a young lady who showed significant interest in yours truly. We set up a time and I picked the place, a nice little pub in Santa Monica. Very hip and trendy, but not quite an LA douche gastropub ala Venice.
    I show up 10mins early (because early=on time, on time=late, right?) and save us a nice quiet table. I text her and give her ideas where to park and tell her where I’m seated. She says, “Ok great. On my way…running a little behind schedule though. Sorry!”
    I look at this and frown thinking, “Is she going to be late to our first date? That’s weird because yesterday she sounded like she was excited and could hardly wait…”
    15mins later I get a text: “I’m 5 mins away”
    20mins later I get a text: “Parking”
    25mins later I get a text: “Walking over”
    28mins later she struts in, putting on her best flustered ‘just got off a crowded plane’ face. “Hey there. Well this place is super cute, right?”
    Guys, I’m not kidding. I stood up from the table and gave her the 3rd degree, index finger pointing out and everything. “How dare you show up here nearly 30mins without ‘I’m incredibly sorry’ being the first words out of your mouth?! The hostess has turned away 4 couples in the last 25mins while looking at me and the empty seat in front of me. But the first thing on your mind is how cute the place is? You know what….it does’t matter. I honestly just stayed here to tell you off because i’m sure I’m not the first guy that had to go through this crap. But I’d like to be the first to tell you it takes one selfish scatterbrain to show up nearly a half hour late to a first date. I’d have more respect if you’d just stood me up. Good luck with the rest of your life.”
    The look on her face of shame & anger was priceless. Shame, because I was 100% right and she knew it and anger, because her shame was now on public display.
    As I walked out, I’m nearly positive I saw a guy at the bar nodding to himself.
    Lesson learned: Don’t hang out to tell a chick off. If she’s more than 5mins later without an excuse, don’t reply to texts or calls. Just walk out. Or better yet strike up a conversation with the nearest female in the place so when she does walk in, you can say you’re occupied. Be loyal to yourself, let her earn it.

      1. I’ve made the adjustment.
        5mins late = text “Walking in 5”,
        10mins late text = text “G’bye”

    1. Seems harsh. I have male friends who do that all the time. Flaking is different from lateness.
      I once had a date roll her eyes at me in front of her friends (twice) … So I walked out and told her to call her daddy for a ride home.

      1. Doesn’t seem harsh to me. She’s trying to set the frame of the relationship from the get go. You have to put that shit down quick or you’re operating in her frame.

    2. thats kinda cool but not something to be done on every 1st date; at least 70% of women will show up late on the 1st date just cause they are hair brained – if they’re doing that shit after you’ve fucked them, then u r in trouble lol.

  13. ‘Act as they, with no obligation or duty. Let them prove to you what they bring to your life.’
    I like the second sentence here but not the first. The solution isn’t for men to lower themselves to the standards and behaviors of women. This is especially true because all the powers and institutions of American society will line up against you. So will most other ‘men’. Yes, you can reflect bad female behavior back to them, but you will be judged (and punished) by the feminist culture under standards completely different from those applied to females. Don’t follow women in their selfishness, deceits, and malevolence.
    It is FAR better for a man simply to remove himself from females and from their culture, starving the Beast. This goes triple in the area of personal relationships. Playing the boyfriend/girlfriend game is playing the Feminine Imperative game. Relationships for males are ONLY healthy in context of lifelong, biblical marriages (which are almost impossible in modern Amerika). Aside from that, having ‘relationships’ with females in the U.S. is asking for a beatdown, which eventually you will get. Yes, you can lower yourself to their non-standards and Be A Scumbag too. And then you aren’t a man anymore. You’re a copycat woman.
    A good article. Sad, of course, but reality-based, and properly warns your brothers. Thanks.

    1. I read that as being within the context of male/female relationships. Of course we need to act with obligation and duty to our family and friends. But women are not deserving of obligation and duty in a sexual atmosphere.

      1. Right. I was addressing sexual relationships — like the OP.
        He uses the word ‘loyalty’ which is something I reserve for God and his servants, and sometimes animals … and which should never be part of relationships based on sex, emotion, etc.
        Loyalty is something a man should offer VERY rarely, as you will be expected to back it up.

    1. I have a deep admiration for every red pill writer and commenter here at ROK.. I also would like to say that we as a group should play the game exactly the way it should be played and never give into the creature known as a Woman..”Find em, fuck em and forget em”..Timeless quote.

  14. Don’t explicitly lie (unless 100% necessary) but let women come to whatever conclusion they want to regarding the status of your relationship (not LTR) with them. Always appear to be ever so slightly out of reach. Women love this on a subconscious level. The key is 90% alpha, 10% beta. The more alpha you are, the larger the margin of beta error, so to speak. Get at least 2 women in your team.
    Display the alpha at the beginning to lure them in, then sprinkle a bit of beta here and there to keep them in the position where they’re emotionally invested, probably want to tie you down, but know that it will be a hard task. This makes them easier to deal with, and they put out effort to prove that they’re worthy of being the only girl you sleep with. It’s like a horse being prodded on by an apple being dangled from a stick in front of it. Every step the horse takes, it thinks it can get the apple but it just can’t quite reach it. They should also suspect that you talk to other women, but don’t explicitly confirm this unless pressed. This way, you get regular sex plus side benefits like cooked meals. I call these women pseudo-girlfriends. Never get complacent, though. At any time, one or all of your pseudo-gfs may decide they’re gonna push for official status, at which point you’ll have to take a hard-line stance, resulting in either her accepting reality or leaving. Always have a replacement on standby.
    To borrow from Fitzgerald, let women believe in the orgastic future. It eludes them but that’s no matter— because they think that one day soon they will achieve their goal, which is to tie down an alpha. Sell women hopes and dreams, and they will chase for months, even years.

  15. 99% of females are not worth any mans loyalty. If she works like a slave for your loyalty and by showing hers, perhaps you might be willing to reward her like a king. Perhaps not. Whichever course of action you choose, best that you be wise about it.

  16. Gentlemen, gentlemen! We’re all well aware that women are weaker both physically and mentally so it is OUR job to keep them in line! It is the white knights, manboobs, beta orbiters, etc, who are our greatest enemy, NOT women! Women were wired to be weak! Do you blame a zebra for being striped?!
    We have so much INFORMATION on all our manosphere sites but not enough IDEAS AND SOLUTIONS for what to do about this sickness that is plaguing western society. Here is my contribution:
    VolCel Season a.k.a. the Anti-Mating Season
    Women will wonder why the men who have been chasing them have just suddenly stopped taking an interest in the only thing about them that matters. Because we are busy empowering ourselves, and not empowering them. You hear me, white knights, manginas, and beta orbiters!? I’m talking to you with all your facebook fealty and asskissery.
    Let’s make it a whole 3 months of no-fap/no-chase to regain a clear perspective amidst the chaos that is the society collapsing all around us.
    What will this accomplish? A transfer of wealth. Your time and energy back into you, not into her. Why? Because beta orbiters, white knights, and manginas have LOW SMV, so this will INCREASE IT…….IMMEDIATELY. It will give you a FRESH perspective about how WEAK you were so that with your new power you can finally see that it is the WOMEN who are naturally weak, NOT you, you pathetic DLVing soul-sellers. MEN ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE EQUALLY AS WEAK AS WOMEN. REGAIN YOUR STRENGTH YOU PATHETIC MASTURBATION MONKEYS.
    Get off your asses you keyboard warriors. Summon the fucking conviction to discipline yourselves and take back the greatest resource men are entitled to.
    What is your idea/contribution?

    1. ”Do you blame a zebra for being striped?!”
      No, but I hate the mosquito for biting me.

      1. Irrelevant. We need ideas, Maelstrom. All these beta orbiters and manginas are lacking confidence. Men are BORN stronger and therefore should ALWAYS HAVE more confidence than any woman he approaches simply because he KNOWS he is stronger.

        1. Ideas? Am I to take it then that you subscribe to the ludicrous proposal that there is anything to be done about the current dire state of affairs?
          Look, it isn’t about strength, it’s about power, women have it, men don’t. That I am physically stronger than a woman is irrelevant since I am unable to leverage that strength to my advantage. Men already killed off all the predators and dealt with all the natural threats that menaced both us and women. In the new environment we’ve created our greater physical ability doesn’t really mean anything, whereas women’s greater sexual power is as potent as it ever was. That is the root cause of the power imbalance and there is nothing to be done about it. The market price is the market price is the market price, and currently women can extort more or less whatever they want out of us. With necessity taken care of by the ambient comfort of civilization, the new barriers on entry that women set for pussy is ability to play stupid head games and provide frivolous entertainments. Unless the environment changes, aggregate human behaviour will not change.

        2. “Look, it isn’t about strength, it’s about power, women have it, men don’t.”
          Wrong. Men have power, they just choose to squander it recklessly. Women are fickle and live for the moment, like children. Men are emotionally stable. That is power. Handling shit tests, flaking, etc, is proof in the pudding to all the men who have succeeded when using their power to push past these petty obstacles and get the girl. Some of us men here need to voluntarily go 90 days without orgasm to remind ourselves that we are emotionally stable enough not to supplicate the whims of fickleness through orbiting and white knighting. Other than your victim mentality, what do you bring to the table to solve the orbiter/white knight problem?

        3. We’re fucked because the number of betas, omegas, and thug alphas greatly out number us real men. The women want our money and resources … if they can’t get it marriage they will through government.
          This is a democracy.
          I don’t care how tight your game is, how much money you make, or how good you look and how smart you are. You still have to pay 50 percent of what you make to the government and live with retards that eat fructose diets.
          The ship is sinking and we’re all on it.
          I’m not in despair, I just think the collective environment is about ready to explode. I have plans to protect myself.
          The rest of society is fuck ed economically, socially, and politically.

        4. I don’t deny a coming collapse, i don’t. But I’m no defeatist. We can make, perhaps, a soft landing, cut our losses, minimize the damage. MGTOW is but one solution. Volcel is but another. Americans, since the history of Americans, have been resilient. My central point is that we have the power to DO SOMETHING, ANYTHING AT ALL. What are some other practical ideas? Huh? Just let the orbiters and white knights drag us down when it’s their responsibility to stop being AS WEAK AS WOMEN!?!? You enjoy hammering out essays that accomplish the spreading of anger? Or would you rather hammer out essays that inspire action? Come on, men!
          Okay, fine. I’ll contribute further. They say geniuses have a million shitty ideas and become a genius for only one breakthrough. I’m not trying to be a genius, I’m just trying to create some actionable intelligence. Here’s ANOTHER idea:
          Heartiste agrees that men have no need for female friends. Let’s wipe the friendzone off the face of the earth. How? Simple. Don’t be friends with women. Zero. Be ASSOCIATES with women. ONLY. Not that friendly favor-doing chump, with, what Rollo Tomassi calls “obligated compliance,” where she feels like she’s forced to treat you nicely because you did her a favor or were nice to her. That will effectively eliminate your DLVing, and her repugnance toward you for feeling like she owes you something.
          How to be an associate? Well, friendship is a form of commitment, it demonstrates beta behavior right off the bat. Association demonstrates NO commitment, not even in conversation. Be minimalist in your interactions with her. Period. Just enough to make her realize that you see male-female friendship as an institution just as obsolete as marriage. (If you see marriage that way, that is.)

        5. Power is the ability to inflict harm on others, if I have power over you, it means I am able to manifest effects that you find undesirable or harmful, be that physical pain, financial destitution or whatever. Women simply have a far greater ability to inflict physical, financial and emotional damage on men than vice versa, most of this is by proxy through state agents but the effect is the same.
          As for solving the problem, there will be no solving. There will be rebuilding once the edifice of civilization comes crashing down. Individuals can come up with solutions for themselves, aggregate human behaviour is what it is and until the environment changes people will continue to behave the same way.

        6. This is not about women’s power. This is about men’s innate superior self-control and self-mastery, which is powerful, and the cure to orbiting/white knighting, which us men all have inside us. We know that the problem currently is women. Why? Because they are fueled by the pathetic men. Why? Because pathetic men have forgotten the best of themselves, even if they only have very little to offer. They should focus on it.
          Spare us the apocalypse scenarios and your caving in to the elitist agenda to destroy the family unit by bankrolling the feminist movement to produce more beta slave workers. We’re all well aware that history has shown us that rulers needed to come up with a way to incentivize the non-breeders into doing work by offering them regular sex in exchange for lifelong service by creating the institution of marriage.
          Offer us a personal solution.
          Even if it only makes a difference in 10 readers’ lives. Fuck knows “As for solving the problem, there will be no solving” solves something for 0 people.
          Here’s another idea:
          Lead by example.
          Even if it means taking them by the hand and walking them through it.
          Help pathetic men remember their strengths. Teach your supplicating beta friends, cousins, and brothers some of the best of your tricks that you know they have enough self-mastery to attempt.
          Maybe it means some self psych-up speech prior to an approach. Maybe it means leading 90 days of no-fap with a close support group of trusted friends. Maybe it means giving a speech to a group of your high school cousins who are bummed out because they think their future is ruined because they suck with women at that age and they feel they have no way to change their situation; provide them with preventive medicine. Maybe it means cutting ties with negative influences (scummy alpha types) although you know that if you party with them you party with hot poosy; and tell your beta friends that you could do without that influence, despite the possible rewards, because you don’t condone scummy drugged-out behavior and they might follow your lead.
          Any other ideas?

        7. I do this with flight attendants at work now. They’re my acquaintances, no way in hell are they actual friends where I do them favors & shit. Fuck that. No friends strategy works. I have different girls (engaged & married) giving me “fuck me” eyes almost every trip. I’m tempted to go for it & fuck them but there’s the HR thing, and I don’t want to be the cause of a broken home either.

        8. Hell, we need a brainstorming session.
          Nevermind these serial rants that qualify as posts in the legacy that is the manosphere. We need nothing but ideas, ideas, and more ideas. Game, MGTOW and volcel are all we’ve got? Really?
          The manosphere deserves better because men deserve better. We’re letting each other down, men. That’s what the elite want, divisiveness at every step. Men vs. women, men vs. men, politican vs. politics, bla bla vs bla, etc, etc, so we all just look the other way while they carry out their agendas unnoticed. Don’t give in to their distractions.
          Look at the comments, too much divisiveness. No more unnecessary man vs. man. No more misinterpreting survival of the fittest as social Darwinistic gospel when really it was Herbert Spencer’s idea to push a political agenda and Darwin was actually trained as a priest.
          Examine the facts. History repeats itself only because we choose not to wisen up and learn from our mistakes. The great philosophers knew the true nature of women and men. There’s nothing new going on here.
          But there can be.
          If we just flood ourselves with some productive ideas. Be a fountainhead of ideas. All it takes is one.
          Here’s another:
          Create a fake facebook page of a hot girl. “If you want to take down the system, you have to get in the system to take it down from within.” Make THOUSANDS of friends with orbiters/white knights. Play the part of a hot girl insomuch that you appear as one. But act the part of a DREAM GIRL who actually DOESN”T attention whore, but instead DOES gently convert her orbiters into real men, one post at a time.
          For example:
          Hot Girl Post: Had a great day today! I hope the weather will be nice for tomorrow so I can enjoy it too!
          Orbiter 1 Reply: That’s awesome! You deserve a great day tomorrow too!
          Hot Girl Reply: Honestly, I didn’t do anything to deserve a great day, but thanks!
          Or perhaps a quicker unplugging:
          Hot Girl Post: Wow, check out this pic of me and my friends at a charity fundraiser!
          Orbiter 1: You’e so hot!
          Orbiter 2: You’re beautiful!
          Orbiter 3, etc: Woweee!!!
          Hot Girl Reply: Ummmmm, no gentlemen, I’m not advertising my looks, I’m trying to raise awareness for this charity. Only insecure women advertise their looks.
          Any ideas?

        9. That’s a start.
          But other than raising awareness, how can we raise the bar? How can we raise our value and our standards?
          Beta orbiters and white knights have LOW value and standards as evidenced by their incessant DLVs. MGTOW raises value because it somewhat demands women to chase. Learning game raises value because it increases men’s SMV.
          Volcel raises the bar, our standards AND our value because it raises our value by strengthening our discipline, a trait women find sexy when they witness it firsthand. It raises our standards because after all those days of feeling great, we don’t want to throw away that feeling on just any regular 5, 6, or 7. It raises the bar because it then demands that women chase us as they see we aren’t chasing them (or orbiters aren’t orbiting anymore, niceguys aren’t trying obligated compliance anymore.)
          Volcel also raises our value because it strengthens our REPUTATION. We know from Robert Greene’s 48 Laws of Power that our reputation should be guarded with our life, and what kind of HB 7+, 8, 9 or 10 wants to be associated with a white knight/orbiter who’s known for being pathetic?
          If a beta orbiter has reputation for orbiting, breaking the habit for an extended period of time will demonstrate they’re putting themselves on the right track. The continuance of volcel only increases their value in the eyes of the HB noticing it, since it is a longer-term move, and thus creates a very strong propinquity. That new reputation brought to the table is very arousing and attractive to any woman, no matter what their SMV, but with volcel, you won’t be wasting time with anything less than 7+.
          A beta orbiter’s value rankings will change. Those that they thought were HB 9s will be HB 7s. This in effect will only strengthen a beta orbiter’s resolve, and, at the same time, teach the chunky spoiled entitled princesses that he used to orbit that they need to change the chunky, spoiled, and entitled part. Women will pick up on their new discernability and, as they volcel leads by example, the woman will follow by taking better care of themselves too.
          MGTOW relates to reputation insofar that it smacks of hopelessness. Volcel might be perceived that way too, but with volcel, that perception is COMPLETELY off. Like being a champion fighter, going to a sparring class where you’re the small, unknown new guy and everyone laughs at you before they’ve even seen you fight, but you’re laughing at them because you’ve beat men twice their size, speed, and strength.
          That’s the power of volcel.

        10. Sorry dude, male vs male competition is not unnecessary, it is an intrinsic part of the human condition. Competition within species is every bit as fundamental to life as competition between species. Similarly, the antagonism between the sexes is just a fundamental aspect of life, humanity is not a member of the very small group of species where the sexes are complimentary partners. The enmity between men and women is just a manifestation of our incompatible reproductive strategies.
          This is all biology, there is no changing it.

        11. Like many, you have a misunderstanding of the history of evolutionary biology to parrot the obsolete propaganda that it begun as and never fully came to explain the entire truth about human origins.
          History aside, geopolitical population management by the elites is nothing new. I believe it was Plato who spoke about how to keep the non-breeders motivated to serve their masters by offering the lifelong promise of sex for their service via the institution of marriage.
          Geopolitics aside, sure, competition is useful. But when it gets out of hand like it has today, we reach a tipping point. Even Henry Kissinger recently published a book called “World Order” to address how out of hand this issue is lately.
          “The enmity between men and women is just a manifestation of our incompatible reproductive strategies.”
          Now there, you have a real point.
          To take it further, Daniel Reid in his book “The Tao of Health, Sex, and Longevity” argues that this is because of the simple fact that men are spent after sex, while women can go on indefinitely, as if they are forever unsatisfied because they have no mechanism to make them feel exhausted after a single orgasm. THAT is the fundamental enmity. THAT knowledge is the reason for all male sexual frustration. THAT is the root cause of the battle of the sexes. THAT is the ONLY truth that makes men and women alike think that women are the more valuable, prized gender.
          It is a fallacy.
          That author goes on to say what I have practiced in a few of my LTRs:
          Retaining your seed is the cure to that cancerous belief. That way, men are EQUALS in the bedroom. That way, men can be BETTER than their woman in the bedroom. That way, the ONLY POWER that women are born with is therefore EQUALIZED, and, if you’re disciplined enough, REDUCED so that you can outperform her. As long as you have the discipline to not blow your load for a temporary short-term gain every single time, and you make a habit out of it, you will have no more enmity between the sexes and not only the battles from all the symptoms of that fundamental difference will be over, but the war in the bedroom will be, as well.

        12. What on earth are you babbling about? When I said incompatible reproductive strategies I meant just that REPRODUCTIVE strategies, not sexual habits. Men want to spread their seed as far and wide as possible, or failing that (or possibly in addition to that) invest in a few offspring to ensure their survival. Women want to get the best genetic material for their children and secure paternal investment in those children. Since most women are able to attract a higher value mate for sex than one they can secure for a long term pair bond, they have an evolutionary incentive to try and get the best of both from different men; the classic alpha fucks and beta bucks.
          The strategies are incompatible. Men don’t want to invest in other men’s offspring, and women don’t want to be left raising children alone with no paternal investment. Conflict arises when each sex tries to follow their reproductive strategy optimally, men by fucking and chucking women, and women by committing paternity fraud.

        13. We all understand that.
          But I believe that is a symptom of the simple disparity between the very nature of sex itself for men and women—the most primitive interaction between men and women—which templates all the other interactions, whether consciously or subconsciously. Especially the reproductive strategies.
          Yes, men want to spread their seed as much as possible. Yes, women have a dual agenda. But if average men were able to fuck their women like workhorses and women were drained of their wetness from so much hot sex, then women would have no choice but to redefine what an alpha male truly is, and thus, redefine her entire reproductive strategy.
          “Alpha” may be thrown around a bit too loosely nowadays.
          Consider this. The rulers of the past had THOUSANDS in their harems. These things still exist today, like Saudi Arabian princes, for example. Compared to these men, everyone else on the planet is beta. These are the templates for systems like male Hollywood actors and other male celebrities who have the true potential to bed thousands in their lifetimes.
          Stop and think about what that means.
          To put it in perspective, those types of men are the only true alphas on this planet. The ones with real notch counts. (Heh, makes me tip my hat to Roosh for his commitment to emulate such a template through pure grit.) Why? Because that’s the way it’s always been. The system is being reproduced under the guise of celebrity. That’s a hallmark of science, reproducibility, so it fits an evolutionary pattern. Therefore, those men are the only true alphas that roam the planet.
          Everyone else that we loosely label alpha is merely above-average beta.
          All women worship celebrities. All of them have a template in their mind of what they’re looking for in a husband by the time they’re 18, and it has nothing to do with the betas around them, it has everything to do with the true alphas that see them as one of the possible thousands, just as these HB10 girls grew up knowing that they have the potential to bed thousands of men.
          If you, as a man or woman, have the potential to bed thousands, that is the only way you are an alpha. Everyone else has to come up with reproductive strategies to struggle to get what they want because there aren’t partners at their beck and call. Everyone else has to rationalize away the pain that some people have MILLIONS of people who want them, so they come up with alpha fux/beta bux for the women and pump and dump for the men.
          It’s a matter of math. Always has been, always will be.
          But how to service all those millions that want you if you’re a man? Through some serious sexual discipline. How to service them all if you’re a woman? Just let it happen!
          Only a true alpha male can service all his options.

    2. Stop caring about getting pussy for starters. Women know that’s where their power is. Just don’t care & watch the hamster rev up.

      1. For starters, sure.
        For the next step, it’s not about raising awareness, it’s about raising the bar.
        I mean listen, this site is not some sort of fictional form of entertainment. These issues are real. Therefore they demand real action.
        I think perhaps one of the best ideas I can offer is for all of us to come up with ideas.
        What do posts accomplish? Spreading awareness, mainly.
        What do the comments accomplish? Venting, comparing notes, bickering, etc.
        What do ideas accomplish?
        I say we all just post NOTHING BUT IDEAS.
        “Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people.” – Eleanor Roosevelt
        We’ve discussed these women exhaustively on the manosphere. We’ve discussed the events and actions they engage in exhaustively on the manosphere.
        Here’s another idea:
        Let’s stop being all talk and no walk.
        Let’s be the opposite.
        You can’t talk a mangina orbiter into red pill in a matter of hours. It takes either time or some shock therapy. So invite a mangina friend over to hang out with you and your girlfriend for some shock therapy. Have her reveal what alphaness of yours lured her devotion to you in detail. Let her yap for hours. Fuck knows if you were the one telling the story it wouldn’t sink in, but since she’s telling it, and with excitement, it’ll go straight to his lizard brain and move his emotions to prompt him into action with his future attempts.
        Any ideas?

        1. By realizing that women playing the “do my bidding or you get no pussy” card is a power play instituted by feminism as a mechanism to control men. Once men realize this, women know that man will want to flip the script on their asses. Men, high value men who actually contribute something to society are in demand and women know it & will compete for it. Men just have to retrain themselves to be a prize worth competing for.

        2. Volcel. The most challenging choice of learning game, going MGTOW or attempting volcel, all of the ideas that the manosphere has concocted so far. Without challenge, how can we improve? Plain and simple. I say volcel is the practice opposite of suicide because you keep your life-giving qualities inside you, you don’t practice any life-taking. At least try it for 90 days. You’ll get a whole new perspective about how they should be the ones chasing you.
          Frankly, from my experiences, I think it works like pheromones, where they can sense your masculine essence oozing out of you. Not just because you will carry yourself differently, not just because testosterone levels go to 147% of the baseline after 7 days and stay that high (, not just because all the other LIFE-CREATING chemicals in your body STAY there and don’t get wasted in the efforts of white knighting/orbiting, not just because you’ll see that after all those days you don’t want to just waste it on any old regular 5, 6 or 7 pussy and thus increases your value and they can perceive your new belief of yourself and your SMV, but mainly because YOU’LL FEEL GREAT ALL THE DAMN TIME. DO IT FOR YOU. THEN THE WOMEN WILL FOLLOW.

        3. That’s why volcel IS the flipping of the script. You don’t have to be a pillar of society to have high SMV. Discipline is power and women can smell that on you. There are things we have no control over and things we do. Of the things we have control over, the easiest things within our control are OURSELVES. Demonstrating that control is POWER. It is the highest form of DHV because it is the ONLY thing we have direct control over at all times. Women LOVE to see us exercising that power.
          Like how they say life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it. You have the power to control your reactions. Exercising that power is within everyone’s ability. The orbiters/white knighters need that power the most.

        4. Make it ONE of the highlights of your life. YOU are the highlight of your life so you should invest in yourself. Women will follow.
          What is discipline? Discipline comes from the word “disciple.” A disciple is a follower. So someone with discipline is a follower. A follower of what? A follower of their own plan. They follow their plan and women LOVE LOVE LOVE, DRIP DRIP DRIP, GUSH GUSH GUSH with excitement when they see that following in action. THEN THEY FOLLOW THAT.

        5. Brother, read the abstract:
          1) One must ejaculate, that is what starts the cycle
          2) Then, one must abstain for 7 days
          3) The testosterone levels will skyrocket.
          4) Go to 1).

        6. Other studies show that testosterone stays that high, for, if I remember correctly, 90 days. Then you need to learn about ojas/jing

  17. ” immediately sizes you up; an instant classification based on your demeanor”
    Hate to be the one to break the news to you…..
    EVERYONE DOES THIS. Not just the women you meet.

  18. I need some advice. What’s the most red pill way to deal with any woman who plays the victim? Who always points the finger at me for some petty, moronic reason? Ignore her? Kill her with silence? Argue back and defend yourself? What?

    1. “Argue back and defend yourself?”
      Don’t argue. State your mind. Say what needs to happen to satisfy you. Then go about your business.
      Don’t argue. It’s ok if you disagree. You need to learn it’s ok to disagree. You don’t need her agreement.

  19. Alpha fucks beta bucks. It’s all they do and it will never change. It comes down to women dropping their panties for the bad boys and making us work for something they gave away to some other dude that we don’t like or respect. Only problem is that when men figure this scam out women get hurt badly. . Out comes the shaming because the supply of beta Simps dwindles to next to nothing and these whores with thug spawn from multiple violent felons now live in poverty with their kids lives being wrecked. . Let me break it down. If someone is shaming you to do something. They think you are a fool, they shame because they can’t or won’t pay you. These women are giving beta men a take it or leave it offer. Grow a set of balls and leave it.

    1. A lot of our dad’s were beta bucks, don’t think mommy was a virgin on wedding night! This trend began after the sexual liberation of the 60s.
      The supply of betas is dwindling for one reason … economics, not awareness.
      I’m sorry, but any young man who wants children should expect virginity or close to it, nothing less. I’m not against whores, I’m again whores having children. And what sort of fucking idiot marries a woman who has had more than two or three dicks in her?

      1. Good comment. I’ll remember this next time I get heckled about still being single and why I haven’t found a “nice” girl yet.

      2. Idk man I’d love to believe you but I don’t think there’s any shortage of beta simps correct me if I’m wrong.

      3. The thing is if you should expect a virgin or close to it you have to rely on what the woman says – and they lie, constantly

    2. “It comes down to women dropping their panties for the bad boys and making us work for something they gave away to some other dude that we don’t like or respect.”
      Thats really the bottom line… Its one thing to fuck a girl that gave it up to some loser who disrespected you, but to dedicate your life’s work to her??? Men will do it… but they’ll hate themselves deep down.

  20. Women have no loyalty or honor. This issue has been repeated over the ages – written by several people throughout history. We would be wise to follow that message and learn from the past.

  21. I know people on this site hate rap but honestly Chris Brown was right when he mad this song

    1. thats red pill for teenagers; heres more mature red pill music
      “Gentleman” by Afgan Whigs:

  22. I shudder at my prior (15 years ago) Blue Pill days, because I made every mistake and missed every red flag when dating (and eventually marrying one), because despite all my savvy in just about every other area of my life, I thought womyn were the last, best, most decent thing…Mom told me. But why should I have listened to my mother? She was a psychotic, passive/aggressive Valley of the Dolls, pre-Baby Boom, cum-feminist whack job that slowly over the years flattened my father out to the doormat that he is today, at 74 years of age. She hated my brother and me, and only made me think, as I grew up and entered the dating scene that maybe SOME woman will love me or who I am? I found that woman, and she destroyed my life (nearly) and took my child. NEVER EVER RELY ON OR TRUST ANY WOMAN. PERIOD. You’re safer with ISIS than your average white American female.

    1. Brother, I shudder at my blue days too. Be glad yours numbered merely 15 years. My days numbered many more.
      Now channel all that emotion and energy into a good life.

  23. This is why I constantly and deliberately bring up Gwenhwyfar (Guinevere).
    It’s rather unfortunate in hindsight I learned this the hard way, especially when my own mother did this to me. Now, she’s paying the price, as even my own sisters are bailing out of her life.

  24. The thing is even as the fuckbuddy you are not really getting what you want, at least not fully. I just dumped an fbuddy because she reveled in using men and I felt like a dildo. Part of the joy in being with a woman is having her give herself to you emotionally – as stated in the article women are now compartmentalizing men into many separate roles to best optimize their hypergamy.
    Maybe it was never possible to fully have a woman, but it certainly is virtually impossible these days.

  25. “There are some exceptions…”
    No. No there are not exceptions. There are only women who have other factors that make it appear like they are exceptions. All of them act this way because all have sinned. Saying otherwise would be like a Christian saying “Well some don’t sin but most do”. It’s nonsense.
    This statement really bugs me. It is put into each and every article as a catch all for men who really really really know that their girl is “different’ when she isn’t. Your girl is *not* different. Cupcake *is* a whore. Your girl *is a whore* because that is the way women are. She may not be whoring *right now* but that isn’t because she isn’t or doesn’t want to it is because she can’t, or would be beaten to pulp or killed if she did, or she would lose financial security, or she would risk/sacrifice something she doesn’t want to risk. Any girl given the opportunity will do this and act poorly. The problem we have in the West is that we have given women license and incentives to behave badly assuming that only men can be evil. The only way to fix it is to bring back negative consequences, serious repercussions, and negative societal, legal, and spiritual feedback. Otherwise get used to women acting like whores because deep down that is what they are. People are evil and have evil natures and there is no exception to this. That’s life.

    1. ‘No. No there are not exceptions. There are only women who have other factors that make it appear
      like they are exceptions. All of them act this way because all have
      sinned. Saying otherwise would be like a Christian saying “Well some
      don’t sin but most do”. It’s nonsense.’
      i respectfully disagree, the mythical NAWALT do exist, you can find 1 NAWALT out of 1 million women, literally. so, since the odds is 1 against 1 million, it is at best an idiocy to go with the mindset of “i’ll give her the benefit of doubt that she might be aNAWALT” when you meet a new woman.

    2. Idk that all women are “whores” it is more just that they always have multiple options – and they can’t really help it; men pursue them. If you are with an attractive woman you can pretty much count on at least 10 other men being in the picture in some manner (orbiters, legit backup options, maybe even her future husband). She probably isn’t having sex with all of them (maybe even none of them!) but they are there lurking like shadows and there is no way around it. A good ebook that gives insight to this is The Key Logger (The Key Tracker???); it shows how even when a woman is madly in love with a man they still can’t help but weigh their options and always have a backup plan. Adopting this sexual strategy yourself is the best thing you can do to counteract the female advantage of always being pursued.

      1. “She probably isn’t having sex with all of them (maybe even none of them!)”
        Well, not *yet*.
        “…even when a woman is madly in love with a man they still can’t help but weigh their options and always have a backup plan.”
        Yep. Even if they are madly in love with a guy, what if that guy gets run over by a truck? That’s the way their little lizard brains work. It’s a survival strategy.

  26. I wanted to try and answer Wexler’s call for useful applicable ideas, or at least share some thoughts in the hope they trigger useful thoughts in other readers.
    What to do? My life philosophy says that it always must start with the self. It’s not the external world, but our reactions to it that matter, and that’s what we should control.
    I then suddenly remembered reading about Buddhism’s four noble truths. Here they are, in simple terms:
    1. Life is full of suffering.
    2. Suffering comes from our thirst, cravings and attachments.
    3. To be free of this suffering, one must become aware of the true nature of things.
    4. Follow the eight fold path of exploration and discipline, which touch upon all aspects of one’s life.
    I pondered those concepts for some time, then it hit me: They are a brilliant condensation of Red Pill awareness. Here’s why.
    We can definitely agree with truth #1. What does truth #2 tell us? Here it is rephrased into manosphere speak: “Don’t be a thirsty, dependent Beta!”
    Sounds familiar?
    Truth #3 hits us even deeper. “You must be aware of the true nature of things.” Isn’t that exactly what we seek here? Uncovering the true nature of women, humanity, society and ourselves? Note that the ‘awareness’ part is crucial. Buddhism goes on to say that trying to stop the suffering by sheer act of will – by denying yourself the things you are attached to – will NOT help you, cos the mechanism by which the suffering is caused will still be there.
    In other words, the more you fight something, the more it will control you.
    On the other hand, we must seek awareness of the true nature of things, and become at peace with it and accept it. Then the attachment will start to melt away.
    I think the core truth which we must assimilate down to our bones is this:
    Nothing and no-one outside of ourselves can ever make us happy.
    And that’s the mistake of every man who’s been hurt by relationships with women. They didn’t see the true nature of the women they were with, and mistakenly believed or hoped that the woman in question could ‘make’ them happy. They thought the women were trustworthy, unchanging. The noble truths point out that nothing in life is like that.
    There’s more however. The part about the futility of trying to become free by self denial without the awareness part is also extremely important. This makes me think that going MGTOW out of bitterness and hurt feelings is not a cure. The thing you deny yourself still controls you. By opposing it, you still dwell on it. So the path to freedom is to know the true nature of things (of women in this case) accept it for what it is, not expect anything different from them, and not getting ATTACHED to them.
    This means that you can indeed have relationships with women if you want to, but with the wisdom of awareness, you see them for what they are, don’t expect them to ‘make’ you happy, and are ready to walk away without any attachment. Then you become impossible to be hurt and impossible to control. True freedom.
    Just think about what power that would give a man. A man who cannot be hurt, who’s not dependent on anything, who cannot be black mailed with anything, is a man who’s impossible to control. He becomes a terrifying entity. That’s why society tries to mould and brainwash every man into being a dependent slave.
    Ponder on this important concept, gentlemen.
    Finally, truth #4 speaks of an eight fold path that which touches upon every aspect of one’s life. My knowledge is very superficial and I don’t know yet what the eight fold means, but it does sound like Red Pill 101 once again. Everything you do in life must embody the core truths you believe in – that of seeing the true nature of things and not getting attached to anything outside of yourself.
    I hope my babbling can be of use 🙂 Comments and critique are more than welcome.

    1. Thanks for your contribution, Phantom. You contribution is rajas of you and speaks of sattvic topics. I just submitted an article putting the volcel concept all together. If it’s not accepted, I’ll just post it on some future articles for all to see. I’ve been volcel for over a year and my goal is to do one more so my perspective is VERY different. I think yes, desire is the root of all suffering, and orbiters/white knights DLVing all over the place just embody that in the most pathetic part of men because they are the weakest.
      Personally, I think one of the best things we can do is what I suggested above, where a few of us create fake facebook profiles as HB9s and 10s, befriend thousands of orbiters/white knights, and slowly but surely “man up” the weak men one at a time posing as a hot girl who doesn’t act like the stereotypical consumer zombie attention whore.
      Fuck knows so few of us have what it takes to attempt true volcel for a prolonged period of time. Took me 7 years of practicing self-mastery to finally go strong for over an entire year so far.

      1. The path you’ve chosen seems to be that of ‘sex transmutation’ (channeling sexual energy into endevours other than sex itself). It’s certainly an old ascetic tradition, and it has been talked about even outside of ascetic / spiritual philosophy. Napoleon Hill dedicated a chapter to it in ‘Think and grow rich’ as a means to help focus on your higher goals and not waste energy looking for sex.
        I admit that my path is different right now. My sex drive is still very high, and I have a regular lover who keeps me satisfied basically on demand with a minimum of hassle. So that works for me right now. But sex transmutation might be a better or a necessary path eventually for all I know, so I’m definitely interested in hearing about your experience with it too. A man can never know too much 🙂
        Another thing I forgot to comment on was the study you linked to, on how frequent ejaculation can weaken the hormones (or that testosterone seems to spike after at least 7 days without ejaculation). This reminded of old tantric traditions that are supposed to teach a man how to be multi orgasmic by separating orgams from ejaculation. In other words, it should be possible to have regular sex and enjoy orgams while still deciding how often you ejaculate, thus preserving more of your energy. Maybe that’s something that modern men should learn to rediscover as well.

        1. “But sex transmutation might be a better or a necessary path eventually for all I know, so I’m definitely interested in hearing about your experience with it too. ”
          Read my post below where I answer breaking free’s comment. In an LTR, your partner will thank you to high heaven for being multi-orgasmic, because you can make her cum DOZENS of times when you go at it for SIX HOURS. So with that, you can still sublime the energy into whatever you wish, as long as you keep it in. You should try to teach yourself to make it happen. It’ll be such a tease at first, but you’ll get the hang of it. She’ll be more than glad to cooperate to make it that much easier. Your sex life will SKYROCKET, in addition to your relationship satisfaction. I’m just recommending what I’ve done which can work for any man.
          I submitted an article highlighting more benefits of volcel so keep an eye out these next couple weeks. If it doesn’t get published I’ll resubmit it next week and if it still doesn’t get published I’ll just post it as a comment in some of the articles.

      1. You were born with the power. Take it one step at a time. When you get the urge, just sit back and wait it out. Or just put that energy into something creative.
        The way my experience has shown me, if you aren’t in control of yourself, then something else definitely is.
        At all times.
        It’s just a matter of not being lazy by giving over your consciousness to something else, whether it be porn, a counterproductive emotion, or even physical pain. Meditation helps tremendously. Self-taught is the best. Then once you have the hang of it, seek out a teacher.

  27. Oh, in case you still have any illusions about the nature of women, here’s a reminder:

  28. I have to say this, I realized in 7th grade that women like to be treated like shit. For a kid raised to be a gentleman, it was a revelation that came to be while standing in a lunch line with a girl I was in love with, and who broke my heart…she WANTED to be treated with disdain. I’m 56, now, and I still see it, everyday. Yet, I’m married to a woman who doesn’t play the game, anymore. She tried. It’s Beautiful Woman Syndrome, they all suffer from it!

  29. If I ever start feeling NAWALT thoughts creep in I read through tinderfessions. It cures those notions up real quick!
    “I did it, your parents are going to do it. Break the cycle Morty, rise above, focus on science.” -Rick Sanchez

  30. The only issue with the author’s argument, which I certainly sympathize with, is that is a a bit of a two wrongs argument. Also, it suggests doing what women do – punish future women for the wrongs of past women, with whom the future woman has nothing to do with.
    My approach would be different. Expect fully and total loyalty from your woman and make sure she is aware of this. Minor dis-loyalties are punished harshly and major disloyalty means she is banished. Do not get involved with poor quality women. Too many men form their opinion based on sluts they meet at the bar. Not only that, because they think this particular slut is “different” they get hoodwinked and had. Learn to judge women from the second you meet them.
    Your woman should know that you are in charge and that you will punish her severely for any mistakes. She should always be slightly in fear and in awe of you. In this way, she will gladly submit to your authority.

  31. I just simply don’t give a fuck. I’m over it, I found a nice lady and am taking a chance on her , but if some day she turns out to be a lying cheating rat like 90% of them have become, I’ll just laugh my ass off, and move on.
    In order to be let down you have to have exectations. When it comes to women I have none. Simple.

  32. “They compartmentalize men.” Oh, how right you are. As long as they can tell themselves “it just happened” etc. they will do anything – even the non-westerners.

  33. I feel sorry for a lot of you :/ And also glad I don’t know you lol Women are crazy bitches I for sure am but I put up with my other halves’ shit because he puts up with mine.This whole website screams ‘Lonely Hearts Club’ its like watching little boys pick on a girl they like lol No wonder all of you are saying this shit its cause ye simply are not good people and these women are seeing that in you and running for their lives.Its sleazy men like you who end up fiddling kiddies in their spare time cause they can’t find a good woman,no shit hahahahaha 🙂

  34. I’m a 35 year old woman who is just out of an 8 year relationship. People keep telling me I need to get back into the dating game, and I’m not feeling it…. like… AT ALL. I couldn’t put my finger on why exactly but reading the stuff on this website I’ve realized that many (but not all) of us ladies are indeed completely fucked up. I’m guilty of some of the (minor) stuff you mention here and I know it too damn well. I really don’t want to be a douchebag, I want to be an amazing woman. This website feels like home. I want to learn. Thank you for what you are doing. Calling people on their bullshit is the only way things get solved in this world. (it’s also happens to be what starts wars…. but I digress) Thanks again.

  35. I’m intriqued and disappointed to stumble upon this site and the comments it contains. My husband (33) and I (28) have collectively created a relationship based on the essence of teamwork, honesty, and mutual respect. We both contribute to our combined future, and support and encourage each other. Consequently we have thrived and experienced an incredible life together (11 years so far).
    We’re often concerned by the inequity and lack of consideration other couples show for each other – this is especially true for those people we care for such as friends and families. Rather than going into your next relationships with your guard up, perhaps walk into it with kindness, honesty and respect, and the expectation that you and your partner will both contribute. Sure, you could be hurt, but in my humble opinion it’s the only approach that can work for the long term. Btw, is splitting the bill early on really a terrible thing? The reaction could prevent alot of hassle! Firm but fair fellas!

  36. You have problems with women because the only ones you consider are histrionic sluts. If you dated truly nice girls who are early-20s virgins, like me, for example, you wouldn’t find yourself in this kind of situation. Perhaps you need to start looking at personality and virtue instead of just looks, because the attention whores you seem to be attracting are the true problem.
    See here:

  37. You have problems with women because the only ones you consider are histrionic sluts. If you dated truly nice girls who are early-20s virgins, like me, for example, you wouldn’t find yourself in this kind of situation. Perhaps you need to start looking at personality and virtue instead of just looks, because the attention whores you seem to be attracting are the true problem.
    See here:

  38. I’d just like to point out that not everyone is untrustworthy! I’m sorry that you’ve had such bad experiences, and yes you should always be careful when putting your heart on the line, because there are so many people that won’t be suitable, but there is hope! I love my boyfriend and will be loyal to him as long as he continues to show me the same loyalty, which he does. I am grateful and I know what a rare gem of a man I have found and I feel so lucky every day. So basically, I just mean that it is possible to find someone who is worthy of your trust, we are two examples. If it doesn’t work out, then at least you’ll always have the memories of true love and be grateful for the time that you had with them.
    P.S. As a society we have such a messed up view of men and women, gender and gender roles, but let that be a point aside, and take a critical stance on it, don’t let it dictate how you live your own life. You can hate it and resent it, all that is wrong with how we view the sexes, and you can try to make a change if you want, but it would be a terrible thing to let it colour your own view of men or women (like has happened to thee author of this article).

  39. Wow. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who believes this; good luck ever getting a decent woman. Theres a reason every post on here is about how all the women they date are bad; its because the good ones AVOID DICKS LIKE YOU.


  41. “Because men want pussy, the majority of men are quick to accept mainly gay and feminist-driven, media enhanced ideas about what the “modern male” should be like, because they think this will get them some action.”
    This is literally the most retarded sentence. Ideas of masculinity are often just for gaining approval from other men. And trying to strive for equality between the sexes and ending homophobia is not a media enhanced idea of the modern male. Besides the modern male idea is probably far better than the animalistic idea this website promotes of men being animals who just want to fuck, be alpha, fight, and pretend that makes them manly. I just read the plethora of dumb articles on this website on why men need to be alpha, how women should be submissive, how men can’t have emotions, etc. Do you really think views of this website are healthy for society as a whole?

  42. I would get some therapy- you obviously keep picking women not suited/interested, and you cannot have a good relationship with someone on that basis. This might be more to do with them- in which case, you have poor judgement, or to do with you- you might act in a way that makes them uncomfortable and feel like you are not worth committing to, which a shrink could also help you with. ‘Women’ as a monolithic group, are most certainly not all devious, and setting yourself up as the well-meaning martyr suggests that your demonisation of them is much more about you. Being personally psychologically healthy is the only way to have a happy meaningful long term relationship, and you are evidently not……

  43. So, as a woman wanting to understand men’s perspectives, what does a modern man want from a woman in a romantic relationship or marriage? I am asking for ideals here. What’s the expectation or hope?

  44. Nowhere in nature do females compete with females for a mate. Everywhere in nature females get their choice of males, they are picky by nature. Wouldnt you be picky about who you mate with? Its funny how resentful you are of females. Loser. :p

  45. I think you’re generalising and limiting women to the scope of your personal experience, and that could be a sign that you’re still jaded.

  46. What if she only sleep with this guy? Being loyal to him.. take a good care of herself.. improving her career.. isn’t it good enough for the guy to stick around longer and do the same. Having multiple partners in one time could be so demanding and emotionally wrecking.

  47. Someone here is clearly still wearing their little autistic, narcissistic, meninist fedora and pouting about their poor judgement. If you’re out for “pussy” or at least expect to hookup soon after you start dating just so you don’t have to chase tail all the time, women CAN sense this and all the sane ones that really are worth sharing your time with will stay as far away from you as they can. It’s all about vibes, and if you’re giving off douchebag vibes you’re going to get douchebag girls. It’s as simple as that.

  48. The traditional woman in Western countries is a thing of the past, and just because a woman is nice to you, is attracted to you, flirts with you, does not mean she is in love with you, she just sees you as a potential sex partner. Once she gets what she wants she will ignore you and move on with her life, leaving you alone in the cold. A lot of guys confuse a woman’s friendliness with them falling in love with them, modern women are fair weather friends, they are only around in good times, when things go bad, they run away. I actually prefer the the more openly bitchy and nasty women to the nicer and friendlier girls because at least they are more honest and you know not to waste your time with them. The nice ones will lead you on and give you all the signals. You will shower them with affection and gifts, probably get some intimacy for a while, then it will all go away, and then they will leave you, and you will have nothing.

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