4 Reasons To Be A Lifelong Renter

As a lifelong renter, I’ve never been interested in the idea of owning a house. This became increasingly prescient in the wake of the 2008 recession and many people shackled to depreciated houses they could no longer afford in neighborhoods slowly becoming ghost towns as jobs and people left the area.

All that doom and gloom aside, what’s the big deal with owning a house? The “American Dream” of having a job that would sustain you long enough to make something worthwhile like a 30-year mortgage is long dead for Millennials and other generations.

I think it has less to do with “saving money for a down payment” and more some of these reasons for perpetually renting instead of owning.

1. Location flexibility

rnt3

I have yet to land that “dream job” that will keep me in dollars for decades, AND I’ve yet to find that special someone that would make having a house ideal in the first place. Why own a house when it’s just you?

On top of this, more than likely you’re at an age where you’re hopping from job to job. You’re working at jobs a few years at a time, developing that crucial “experience” that those big jobs seem to be after. You can’t hop and bop across the land if you are tied down to a house.

What if you find yourself in a neighborhood that’s beginning to get a little sketchy? As a renter you can just move! You’re not locked in to a neighborhood that’s slowly turning in to trash heap. That’s your landlord’s problem now.

2. Making it a home

There this persistent myth that if you rent a place you can’t paint it or work on it to suit your needs and make it a home, this is patently false. Sure, you might run in to a landlord or two that doesn’t care for that kind of business. However, the obligation is on you to find a landlord that only cares if you pay the rent, keep the place in order, and keep quiet.

If you fulfill these requirements, a landlord is much more likely to allow you paint your room some other color than “institution white,” change crummy fixtures, and replace that beige carpet that only Jesus Christ himself could step on and still get his whole deposit back.

3. Maneuverability

rnt1

Say you lose your job or find yourself with a little less money than when you first started renting your place. Conversely, what if you get a promotion or a raise and now have much more money? You can now adjust your living space as well!

If you’re the kind of man who’s never home, perhaps rent a tiny place that you essentially use as an HQ and find somewhere else to bed your conquests if she finds your place a little “utilitarian” for her tastes.

Perhaps you’re the kind of man who wants a yard to host parties and perhaps toss a ball around in. If so, renting is a perfect answer. You can have your yard, which you can mow at your leisure, and you still don’t have to own a house.

With the onset of excess fundage, perhaps invest in a bigger pad and add all the accouterments that a man of your flush money lifestyle would demand. The sky is the limit when it comes to the maneuverability of renting.

If you were to lose your job and still own a house, what are you to do? Wait for the bank to foreclose on you, furthering ruining your life? And even then, you still have to pack all your shit and move to a smaller place anyway. Renting allows you to sail the seas of uncertainty with pride.

4. If it’s broke…the landlord fixes it

rn2

Quick quiz for the homeowners reading: What’s the size of the filter for your HVAC unit? What year was your house built? What’s the square footage of your home? What kind of plumbing does your house contain? What’s the age of the various appliances in your house?

For a renter the answer to that quick quiz is: who cares! It’s not their problem…well, if you have renters insurance (which you should) you need to know the square footage and date the place was built, but other than that…nothing else is your problem. Total freedom.

I’ve long tested the ability of any garbage disposal in the places I’ve rented. For the most part, I’ve found that I can dispose of quite of bit of garbage. Sometimes, though, I miscalculate and the disposal needs to be fixed. No problem, I just call the landlord and they deal with it.

Clogged showers, gas leak, HVAC filters, and in one instance, a refrigerator I didn’t care for was replaced with something more to my liking. This kind of nonsense is nigh impossible for a homeowner.

A homeowner has to prioritize the importance of things as they come to need addressing. They are stuck with the lone notion of hiring a professional to deal with any problems that may arise from owning a home; a renter is not. At the very least, the renter has to deal with the hassle of having a stranger all up in their place while things are getting fixed. Nevertheless, if there’s a worst-case scenario the landlord is typically obligated to pay for a hotel stay.

Renting isn’t necessarily for everyone, and depending on the place you live or station in life, your mileage may vary. Who’s to say that in a few years you won’t get the hankering for a little home owning? Renting a place is the perfect training for the time when you’re ready to shackle yourself to a place for 30 years, with your dream job, trophy wife and 2.5 kids.

Read More: 7 Reasons Why Buying A House Is A Terrible Idea

338 thoughts on “4 Reasons To Be A Lifelong Renter”

  1. All very good points if you are a young, single man. I however, have found my dream woman, have my children, and have my dream job. A home, among other things, promotes stability which is good for all of us.

    1. Same here. However, I think I am slowly opening her up to the possibility of us selling the house and buying one of those big RV’s for us to live in. The prospect of living wherever we want, whenever we want without a UHaul being involved is very tempting. Would we actually do it? If I have a 100% telecommuter job, why not?

      1. The great thing about this country is the freedom to do what you want. The great thing about being a man (or a king) is to do what you think is best for you and your family. Obviously, I can’t tell you what you should do because I don’t know your situation. Whatever you do, there are consequences, be they good consequences, or bad consequences, you live with the choices you make. Make the best choice for you and your family and good luck to you.

        1. “The great thing about this country is the freedom to do what you want. ”
          You can’t possibly be speaking of the United Soviet States Of America, are you?

        2. I am. A country where for breakfast, I can have cereal from Michigan; orange juice from Florida; bananas from Costa Rica, and coffee from Columbia. I did nothing to grow these things, I did nothing to transport these things. All I did was drive to a grocery store that is less than two miles from my home. And how much did I pay for all this? Probably a couple dollars.
          I was in the Soviet Union in 1987, before the fall, and you could not do what I just described. It is true that I could buy limited things in the Soviet Union in 1987, and those things were cheaper, but they were also a whole lot crappier.

        3. All due respect, then for you it’s all about having a great variety of choices for breakfast? So you can enjoy your Wheaties while you look out the window and watch SWAT haul away your neighbor for most likely a crime he didn’t commit?
          I still try to understand men such yourselves that live under the delusion that America is a free nation, when it no longer is. Sure there are vastly worse places elsewhere on the planet, but really my point is that America has been slowly moving towards tyranny for quite some time. And the States is the leader of the free world which makes America the most important country for that reason. Aside from less personal freedoms one has in the USA, if one simply takes a look at just having one’s own business there is over-regulation in practically all industries kills small businesses from the get go, let alone the litgiously-entitled system that oversees everything. What type of business are you in? I’m not trying to be overly-inquisitive so you need not tell me. But a key factor with you could most likely be that it was probably easier to start your enterprise 16 years ago then today.
          I’m not trying to diss you, because if you managed to create an island for yourself, then I salute you.
          But have you read these ROK articles:

          35 Things Wrong With America


          And

          How American Men Are Being Institutionally Oppressed

        4. What I am saying is anyone who compares the United States to Soviet Russia has obviously never been to Soviet Russia . . . or to Cuba, or to North Korea.
          The United States has a lot of problems. You highlighted two of them, the over militarization of the police and the over regulation of private business. If I had read the 2 articles by Roosh, I don’t remember. Roosh is right, awareness of the problem is the first step. But I don’t need someone to tell me what the problems in this country are. What we need are answers, and men with courage to change what those problems are. Roosh fights his battles, and I support him, but I don’t want to be like him.
          These problems did not occur overnight, and the answers will not occur quickly either. For example, I have children, and I am doing my best to raise my children in a way that will separate them from the trappings of what Roosh describes. I have friends who are trying to do the same thing. I know politically who it is I support, and I support those who recognize the Constitution isn’t just the law of the land, but it’s purpose is to curtail governmental power.
          Finally, even with over regulation, you can start your own business. It might not be easy, but who said life was easy? There is always room for the best at whatever it is you do.

        5. Fair enough answer, Lance; you make valid points. I just can’t trust the system anymore. And regarding supporting politicians who respect the Constitution, the politicians are now the bitches of the elite 1% and it is this elite class telling the politicians what to do.
          Raising children in Femerika? Extremely difficult to do these days without the degenerate “progressiveness” of today having some kind of influence. I hope you are at least homeschooling your kids. And bear in mind that the State has the authority to take them away from you for whatever reason. And yet America is a free country?
          Always looking over my back looking out for police who want to mug me (via municipally mandated laws and regulations designed strictly to extort money for the system) or always having to be concerned if the female you have mutual consentual sex with will cry rape afterwards. Looking around and constantly being reminded of one’s third class citizenry simply for being male. No decent affordable pragmatic healthcare (I dont believe in government healthcare but fuck all if the private sector has not come up with a viable solution) having to stare at blue haired fatties or O-ring bitches and tattoos (women are prettier in europe and south america) If you had to start from scratch today- no job, no wife ltr girlfriend by your side, no kids, wouldnt you not want to consider expatriation?

        6. I’m new here but have been following Return Of Kings for some time, finally I have to step in and join the conversations. Dunno really if America really is feee anymore. Morison made good points, and I think he won this debate.

        7. Again for men who have already succesfully managed to settle in they have their perspective, but starting out in life, I would at least investigate other cultures besides wasteland usa.

        8. Its not about winning a debate, but rather about pointing out the elephant in the room to those who are ignoring it.

        9. From what I saw from Lance was that he was trying to correct what I see common in many return of king followers. Hyperbole statements that seem to be made inside an idealistic vacuum. He wasn’t trying to correct an opinion, but add perceptive. We got a long way to go before America become unrecognizable.

        1. Perhaps, but the beauty of my situation is if I sold my house today, I would be completely debt free. If we cruised the USA for a while and decided this wasn’t the lifestyle for us, we could easily settle back down and probably with a nice bit of cash saved up.

        2. Good luck. There are men who do just what you said. Cruising the USA will definitely change you. What it will change you into, no one knows. But the open road, with whatever experiences you encounter . . . good luck.

        3. How so? I see many advantages of RV’s if you want stay in the USA but wish to travel for a while.

        4. True, but i’m assuming we’re not talking about a rockstar-lever tourbus, but like … a winnebago.

      2. I did something similar years ago. The boss sold his business and as part of the deal (I was a VP) I got a sizable bonus and six months severance (new management brought on all their own new people). I took the opportunity to live on the open road. I put my stuff into storage and figured between the bonus and severance and not paying rent I could last for a year easy without touching my savings.
        I started by heading across the country in the North during Summer then as the Fall hit I made my way gradually South. I would just stop wherever I felt like it. I camped some, rented rooms for a week, and stayed with friends. I even worked some odd jobs in restaurant kitchens, an IT consultant for a small business, and waited tables. There was something redeeming about working a mindless job where I had absolutely no investment, emotionally or otherwise, in it. I probably netted $1000 in cash a month from these odd jobs.
        Fourteen months later I ended my adventure in Key West after working as a bartender there during the busy season for about a month. I was contemplating heading to the US Virgin Islands or Puerto Rico when a friend called to tell me about a business opportunity. I decided I should take the gig and get back into the professional life rather then stay a nomad.
        The only “regret” I have from a year on the road was I lost contact with some business associates and friends back home. (A few even though I was dead).
        It was fun. The lifestyle isn’t for everyone and isn’t sustainable in the long term. But, it was an experience I will never forget.

    2. I love renting at the moment, but if I found a woman that I felt I could spend the rest of my life with, and by definition that would mean having a load of kids, I’d buy as big a place as I could reasonably afford, preferably with plenty of land.
      Congratulations to you for achieving those things in your life, most of us are still searching!

      1. Thank you. I like Return of Kings, but I do not think “women” are the enemy, (although I do appreciate that I am a Generation X and not a Millennial so there may be differences). “Feminist thought,” especially, 3rd generation “feminist thought” is most clearly the enemy.
        I got married when I was 28 and we bought our first house together at the same time. My life is better because of my wife and I hope my wife’s life is better because of me. Together, the two of us can do things that individually, neither one of us could do.
        I do think I am “lucky” but I’ve also made some good decisions in my life that were the product of hard work and knowing who to trust and who not to trust.

        1. Good for you – I’m a cynic whenever it comes to the dating world but I still hold out some hope that I’ll meet someone who improves my life and vice-versa.
          I’ve not given up on the idea of marriage and a life partner, I’ve just become a hell of a lot more cautious.

        2. “someone who improves my life and vice-versa”
          Nobody can do that for you. Only you can.

        3. Yes and no. A good wife will do things to make your life easier, which in turn improves your life.

      2. Buying a house is, in my opinion, a very bad idea. First of all, the idea that you will make money or otherwise accrue wealth, is a myth. A house is a depreciating asset, just a like a car. The only difference is that the price of a car goes continually down whereas a house price is volatile because of inflation.
        Even if you could consider a house an investment it would be a very bad one because it is highly illiquid and would represent almost the entirety of your investment portfolio. All you eggs in one basket?
        Aside from the appalling risk to reward ratio, you have to consider the actions of external agencies, i.e. your wife and the divorce court, when the judge effectively hands your house to her.
        Lastly, as suggested by the author, if you need to move, you face a nightmare getting rid of that house.
        Flexibility is key in todays world.

        1. I’m a single man and plan on being so (mgtow). Could buying an apartment be a more solid choice, though?

        2. That would be worse. You are then at the mercy of the freeholder and if they are structural problems with the building it could be very difficult for you to do anything about it.

        3. Anyone making less than 200k/year and single should be renting except possibly in rural areas in the Southeast and flyover country..

        4. So you pay rent forever Bob. My mortgage is paid off on two properties so I no longer have to pay rent or a mortgage. Meanwhile you have to pay rent forever – in the UK rents are going up at 8% a year.
          I really think that as a general rule buying is the best option. Often the cost of buying is cheaper than renting on a monthly basis, and then the loan repayments end altogether. So even without houses going up in value it makes sense.
          If house prices go up then you will have even more assets behind you. This asset can then be used any way you like.
          If you need to be flexible you can either sell your house or rent to someone who will in effect be paying the mortgage for you.
          Also if you rent quite often you get moved on every year or so and also have to pay agency fees.
          That’s my opinion.

        5. Home ownership can be a huge pain in the ass. But there is an intangible aspect to ownership that many people value – and more importantly once my house is paid off, in a bout 3 years I will NEVER have to pay rent again, in addition to retaining the value of my home.
          On top of that I bought in a semi-rural area thats being developed significantly so equity is exploding at the moment – if I sell the house in 3 years I could see a 70 or 80k profit. Being crushed under a mortgage you can’t afford is a stupid idea but that doesn’t mean owning property is a dumn idea. Just my two cents bob.

        6. Complete rubbish. House prices rise inexorably over a long period.. According to Economics website Prime Economics, since 1993, national house prices have risen from an average of £62,333 to £247,000 – so, an increase of around 400%
          There is very few investments that will give you such a return.
          in the last 15 years, house prices have risen in London more than anywhere else – with the average Londoner paying over £300,000 for a house in 2012 compared to just over £70,000 in 1993 – that is more than a 420% rise
          The average 20 year compound interest mortgage, at 5% interest, means you pay back about 1.5 times what you borrow, or twice on an interst only mortgage. Check for yourself here
          http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/mortgagecalculator.php
          If you had paid 70k for a house on a 15 year mortgage at 5%, as in the example above, you would have paid back £110,000 and now possess without debt a house worth £300,000.
          As for the rest of your post, its completely irrelevant. You can own no house and a sucessful business, and any vindictive ex partner can take that off you, house or no house. And if that bother you, make her sign a Pre-Nup agreement.
          Im 61, ive paid my mortgage off. I now live free in a house I own, wheras you will still be paying rent at my age. This means I can (and have ) retired, since my outgoings are not even one third of what they were paying a mortgage, and I can live off the private pension I built up working.
          Plus, i can pass this house to my kids, or i can draw out the equity, say £50,000 and spend it on what i like. You can do niether.
          And, to tackle another point,over the last five years renting has become more expensive than paying a mortgage –
          http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-2424504/How-costs-buying-renting-home-compare.html

        7. Your politeness shames me.
          You have aptly demonstrated what we call in the investment industry “money illusion”. In other words, you have mistaken the nominal return (400%) for a real return. You need to adjust this for inflation. Five years ago, I calculated the real return for residential housing and it was negative. Possibly this has changed recently but long term it does not give me confidence.
          Think about this: if housing gets you a easy 400% return why do people bother with stocks and bonds? If something sounds too good to be true…
          Suppose I have no house and no successful business. What does my ex take off me now? Or say my business is “virtual” (i.e. consultant)? Nothing to take except income and I can just leave the country.
          I can live “free” in a house too. I buy an annuity with the savings from renting that covers my rent. Job done.
          The remainder of my savings I can pass to my kids, which I’m sure they would prefer rather than having to go through the costly process of selling your mouldy old home so they can divvy it up. Sorted.

        8. People often make the mistake of comparing the mortgage payment to the rent payment. This leaves out a major cost of home ownership, which is maintenance and depreciation. Yes a house depreciates. So no you will not have to pay rent but you will continuously pay these other things. And depending on where you live there could be property taxes.
          Also, that 80k profit may not be profit. It might just be inflation.

        9. That would be some serous inflation in a 3 year time period! Maintenance absolutely, depreciation not so much. If you bought in after the housing bust in a good area with low property taxes thats experiencing development (as I did) your really gonna do fine. I’ll be 30 or 31 when my house is paid off. Where others are making rent payments I’ll be able to invest that money. Maintenance/upkeep will be a relatively small thing, and not to mention that quality of the home. 🙂

        10. Or a really unlikely profit! Why don’t you tell me the percentage “profit” or increase in house price, whichever it is? Note you didn’t tell me the start of your investment time horizon just when it ended.

        11. but why volunteer to pay rent forever when you can opt to pay a mortgage for 20-25 years and then never pay rent or a mortgage again?

        12. your comments on this article prove you have no idea – maybe it’s a london thing – but tell me Bob
          1. Since when have you rented.
          2. What is your current rent.
          3. If you bought the place you live in how much would a 25 year mortgage set you back each month.
          Then I can calculate if you’re right or wrong.

        13. Admittedly, it’s speculative. But purchase price at around $280,000 and likely being valued around $350,000 or so after 5+ years. Note – there is extensive development in the area and the price of homes have been skyrocketing since around 2009. It’s entirely possible that it won’t be quite that high, and incidentally I don’t plan on moving but the point is – I will certainly not be getting hurt financially

        14. I think what Bob and the author are posting are just a different way of doing things. Not necessarily right or wrong, there are pros and cons of each method.
          For some people flexibility is pretty key, and not worrying about repairs or the location can be beneficial. Yes owning a property outright can be great, as it gives a roof over your head that is guaranteed, stability and no rental inspection / price hikes.
          From Bob’s perspective is that properties can also be a massive liability.
          It becomes a massive cost that is paid off over 30 years, and the monthly amount can fluctuate depending on interest levels in the era. In Australia people will pay off nearly double and sometimes triple the cost of their home i.e. $450 000 may actually cost 1 million to pay off. In 30 years you have a home worth either 800k (lost money) or 1.2m (gained 200k), but it has not advanced your situation in the world significantly, and their are taxes and maintenance costs.
          The flip side is revenue streams. You can rent amazing places for a p/w amount that is much cheaper than owning the property, which would be comparable to owning somewhere not very nice. So the goal is more around “how do I pay my expenses?”. And instead of owning a house outright, another option is to own income generating assets e.g. a modest goal to earn $40k p.a. off assets and passive income activities will then cover your basic life expenses for fairly decent living, then anything above and beyond this is disposable income. In theory this means if you were to own a house and pay 3k per month, you could rent a place for 2k per month and invest the 1k in assets. After 30 years you could / should have anywhere from 1 – 3 million in assets (assuming growth and reinvestment). These assets then pay for your lifestyle as income comes in. So you do not have a house, but that ok, you always have money from dividends etc. And if you want to go to South of France or Spain for 6 months of the yr, your house does not help (unless you rent it out), in scenario 2, just terminate the lease and now that money goes into renting a place in a holiday destination.
          Not right or wrong, just strokes for folks.

        15. That would be about a 25% return over five years or 4.5% per year. Not too crazy but you would have to adjust that for inflation. The thing is, it is inflation (i.e. money printing) probably accounts for most if not all of that gain because much of the money creation in the banking industry is funneled into mortgage. You could gain though, through the difference in house price inflation and consumer price inflation as HPI tends to be higher, for the reasons I mentioned. But only if you sell the house without buying another, otherwise you will simply net out.

        16. I have no idea.
          I have worked in real estate for 15 years, I lend money for a living and I have numerous academic and professional qualifications from extremely reputable institutions.
          But I have no idea.

        17. quite often the people with all the qualifications have no idea… please give me a comparison of someone who has rented in West Kensington since 1994 and someone who purchased on a 20 year mortgage and so finished paying their mortgage last year. Do this on a 3 bed flat or house. Then you’ll see I am 100% right.

        18. Actually here is a typical example (see bottom), and if you could go back to 1994 the price may well have been £350,000. Your advice means that you would have lost out on a £2 million gain through price increases.
          Ok an overly simple price comparison A £350,000 mortgage will cost roughly £1500 a month. Current rents on 4 bed houses in West Kensington approx £4000-£5000 a month.
          Not only would you have missed out on the £2m price increase, where as the buyer would be at the end of their mortgage period and have maybe 30-40 years of no mortgage payments at all, you would be paying £4-£5k rent for the rest of your life.
          Bob…you’re clever but on this you’re misguided.
          45 Caithness Road, London, Greater London W14 0JD
          £2,300,000Terraced, Freehold10 Jul 2013 4 bedrooms
          £885,000Terraced, Freehold02 Jun 2006
          £786,600 Terraced, Freehold25 May 2004
          £720,000Terraced, Freehold16 Dec 2002

        19. Would you like me also to cherry pick some examples showing massive losses? I can also throw in a few apples and oranges.
          Where is the adjustment for inflation in your analysis?

        20. That’s what someone with no qualifications would say. They don’t give these things out for free in Christmas Crackers you know.
          I’ve done that analysis before and found you were wrong. That’s why I don’t buy. Did you include maintenance and capex costs in your analysis or will little fairies do this for free after you paid off you mortgage? What about insurance and taxes? What about market returns on the money you saved between owning costs and renting costs?

        21. Like I made a clear -a simple example. Actually with a four bedroom house you would even build in the fact that you could rent out three bedrooms if you chose. I didn’t include that either, and rent from three bedrooms would easily cover the mortgage.
          I know you’re not stupid, but on this you are plain wrong. I have picked London because that’s where you live. It’s a well known fact that in the Uk during the last 30 odd years it’s the buyers of property that have done so well.

        22. I am not saying you are wrong with the examples you made but you are cherry picking. Not everyone can afford to buy a house in London and not everyone wants to.
          Yes rent might cover the mortgage but it isn’t free money. It requires work and you have to figure that in, along with contractual obligations, new expenses (insurance, legal costs, etc.), hassle factor, regulatory obligations, personal liability. I have observed people who buy to let and they work bloody hard. Frankly, I’d rather relax on the weekends.

        23. OK OK.But almost across the entire UK, buying has been the right decision over the last 25 years instead of renting. OK, the price rises in London have been extraordinary, but they have also risen by many times all over the country. The first house I bought went up in value by a factor of x4 in about 10 years and that was 100 miles from London.
          Even with level house prices, maintenance etc buying is usually the better option. You get to a point where there is no longer any mortgage and remember rents can go up forever. Do you think you will be paying the same rent in 10 or 20 years as today?

        24. You are right and should have written the article.
          Yes, in the last 30 years buying has been an OK investment (particularly in London and NYC metropolitan) vs. renting as asset prices have risen due to: (i) falling interest rates (both nominal and QE reduced forward expectations); and (ii) expectations that house prices will rise in future making current prices higher.
          This is the wrong way of looking at it.
          Long-term real return of housing is 0% after accounting for inflation, costs and taxes. Over the last 30 years it has been positive but not life-changing. What is life changing is borrowing at 95%-100% LTV, getting that 1-2% return on assets on 100% of the asset to your name. If you do that and don’t go broke, or suffer from financial inflexibility in-between paying the mortgage down to a sensible 50%-60%, then you have won.
          Here is an interesting data set:
          http://www.pragcap.com/understanding-your-real-real-returns/

        25. Don’t forget inflation. Rent will go up and so will salaries, other things being equal.
          You do recall the house price crash of 2008/9? House prices do not always go up but when they do, most of it is price inflation. Price inflation by the way, is not money in your pocket since all prices generally rise.
          Consider something else. You will always pay home ownership costs as I will always pay rent. I do expect that rent will be higher than your costs sans mortgage. However, do not forget the opportunity cost of that deposit. I can take my deposit and invest it. Over time, the income from my investment can offset the difference between my rent and your costs. Not only that, I can buy an annuity with inflation linked income that will cover my rent. Essentially, I will rent for free. Job done.

        26. Thanks Miles, I was feeling like a lone voice in the wilderness for a while here. People pay me for my expertise in this area but apparently I have no idea.
          I have a colleague who is a Ph’D in economics and has written books on the subject but people still think he is full of shit.
          Emotion is highly resistant to logic it seems.

        27. I haven’t yet bought an annuity because I haven’t accumulated enough funds. I am in the savings stage.
          I doubt most renters have done that because most people are unsophisticated investors. But the same applies to homeowners. Most homeowners have no idea how inflation affects the price of their home, or that when calculating gain they need to include maintenance costs, capex costs and depreciation. So really, they haven’t a clue whether they are making money or not.
          They just naively take “price now” less “price then” and call it a gain.
          In economical terms, it is impossible to make a gain from your house unless the land it sits on goes up in value, or you do extensive works that people are willing to pay extra for, which cannot be guaranteed. The reason for this is that fundamentally, the value of an asset is the Present Value of its Future Cash-flows. A house has negative cash flows and thus its theoretical value is negative. This means that a house is a consumption good not an investment good.

        28. Bob..your argument has fallen apart.
          Your theories are theories and plans and schemes while….at the same time you must know others from your generation who have actually taken action and made a pile of cash through buying.
          You say you haven’t accumulated enough funds…if you had purchased a property and then sold it today – would that have given you more or less funds than you hold???

        29. How is it different from you waiting 25 years to pay off your mortgage so that you can live rent free and pay maintenance, insurance, taxes for the rest of your life? In my case, I won’t have any of that.
          The future price of your house is not guaranteed. You might say it is “theoretical”. My savings are protected against inflation. The value of your house is not. It could crash at any moment and there is no guarantee it will come back. There are people in the Spain for example who lost everything when the value of their property went to zero and never came back. There are worse stories in Dubai. And there are housing estates dotted around England where the developers are desperate to sell (that’s what the latest Government Help-to-Buy Scheme is about).
          So to answer your question, if I had bought a property (you didn’t say when, that matters) in the past and sold it today would I have more or less money than today? Absolutely no idea. Your question is too vague.

        30. For that high priced London house you get to have neighbors living next to you paid by your taxes that are willing to behead UK soldiers in broad daylight.

        31. bob…its ok to admit youre wrong. If you are 30-50 and living in the Uk – london area especially – you have missed out big time by not buying once you got a decent job.

        32. I live in Arizona. No, I’m not looking for pity. My rent was $1800/mo 2007-2012. My house payment has been roughly the same since. My house as appreciated 30% or 85K USD in 2.5 years with inflation stagnant. That’s easy math. One size does not fit all. The only saving grace to the first year rent was $100/day per diem.

        33. Agreed, or buy a house in an area that hasn’t appreciated as much. But like Chris says, your leaving out the cost of rent when looking at market gains. In my situation, I’m up $85K on paper, but would be down $54K if renting.

        34. What makes you think I’m leaving out the cost of rent? I’ve been talking about nothing else? How could one compare the costs of renting versus the costs of home ownership with out considering the costs of renting? That’s a bizarre statement.

        35. Inflation is never stagnant. How has your house appreciated? Did you add extra bricks? Is your house paying you money? Or has the land value increased? If the answer to all the last three questions is no, that’s inflation.
          If you can gain from the relative changes in inflation (house price inflation vs the inflation in your local consumer market) then that’s a good thing but in practice this is very difficult.
          Basically, your appreciation is just a paper gain, meaningless unless you can realise it.

        36. Chris don’t be a clown. People pay me for my expertise in real estate. If you think I am wrong it is down to your lack of understanding.
          Your lack of understanding is readily apparent to me. You don’t understand the basic principles of investment, including risk/return ratios, liquidity issues, how inflation affects your return. You don’t understand HPI and how you need to factor that into your gain calculation. You aptly demonstrate “money illusion”, which is how we refer to naive investors who fail to fully incorporate inflation into return calculations. You even think you will live cost free in a house after you’ve paid the mortgage, blithely drawing a line through maintenance costs, depreciation and capex.
          Your argument fundamentally boils down to House Price today less House Price Yesterday = Gain.
          Housing investment is not exempt from the basic principles of investment. You think that it is. As such, you are in conflict with centuries of accumulated financial wisdom, determined by the best minds on the topic. But I am wrong, all of them are wrong, simply because you bought and sold a house once.
          An intelligent man recognises expertise when he sees it. A wise man pays attention to a recognised expert. Are you an intelligent and wise man Chris?

        37. You still fail to give figures and facts. I know all about the terms you refer to but gave a simplified ‘back of envelope’ example to make my point.
          Following your logic, no one who has invested in property in the last 30-40 years should be successful. the opposite is true. Far and away those who have invested in property have done very well – in fact ever since the war. Millions of people have made wise decisions buying their homes and property.
          Property inflation has far outstripped general inflation. So much so that it more than covers the costs of maintenance and repairs. Generally property has not suffered from depreciation like many other assets.
          Also owning property gives the average person lots of advantages and flexibility. Firstly it’s quite easy to understand when compared to stocks and shares and other complex investments. 2. It’s flexible. It can be lived in, rented, lived in and partially rented, sold for cash or used by family.
          I am intelligent and wise, and so are you. But you can be a very successful and clever estate agent or real estate expert without necessarily having invested successfully yourself in the market.
          That’s my last post on the topic otherwise anyone reading this will get very bored.

        38. I never said no one could be successful in real estate. I am successful in real estate. My clients are people who have made 100s of millions from it. But they don’t do it the way you outline and neither do I.
          Figures and facts are nice but theory and principle is more important.

        39. Speaking of principles – property does not suffer from depreciation? You better tell the accountants this revelation so that they can stop calculating it.
          I won’t deny that you can gain from relative inflation rates but you can only realize this if you sell your house and… rent. I do know someone who successfully did this but this requires very good market timing which most people do not have.
          Further on inflation. You are assuming that the current inflationary regime in housing will continue into infinity. We know that it will not for three reasons. 1) House prices crash and recover. This is when the inflationary increase is temporarily halted by the authorities but then resumed. We saw this in London. 2) House prices crash and do not recover. This is because economic reality supersedes anything the authorities can do with inflation. This is because for example developers built houses in places that nobody wants to live. We see this in parts of England, Spain, the US and Dubai. People lose everything and I mean everything in these situations. 3) The currency collapses, which is what ultimately happens at the end of every inflationary regime.
          Inflation leads to wealth destruction. This is where you end up with less than you started with. Some years ago (in Property Week I believe) some economists published a report showing that economic losses were made in the real estate industry by the experts!. In other words the industry as a whole was poorer at the end of the cycle than at the beginning.
          How to make money from real estate? Follow basic investment principles, and include a diversified real estate portfolio at about 2-3% of your total investment portfolio. 100% invested in real estate? Not wise.

        40. 1. Inflation id not running at 420% over ffifteen years, and nothing like thta.
          2. People do, they are called ‘Property Speculators’ , but they go for short term gains then dump the property.
          3. There a difference in living ‘free’ and living in a house that you own. I can do what i like in this house, including extend it, and knock it about.You cant. I put a conservatory on the back 15 years ago and a porch on the front. I also put a wood burner in , and relaid all the floos with laminate. I doubt even the friendliest landlord is gonna do that for you.
          4. Your savings as losing value as we speak, due to the appallingly low interest rates. and in a monetary collapse, your paper money is worth nothing, look at Greece. If you want to preserve your wealth to pass it on then gold, silver or property is the only way. Take a leaf from the richest 0.3% who own 40% of the property, business, gold and silver in the world.

        41. 1. Inflation is not running at 420% over fifteen years, and nothing like that. Over a lifetime, property always outstrips inflation.
          2. People do, they are called ‘Property Speculators’ , but they go for short term gains then dump the property.
          3. There a difference in living ‘free’ and living in a house that you own. I can do what i like in this house, including extend it, and knock it about.You cant. I put a conservatory on the back 15 years ago and a porch on the front. I also put a wood burner in , and relaid all the floors with laminate. I doubt even the friendliest landlord is gonna do that for you.
          4. Your savings as losing value as we speak, due to the appallingly low interest rates. and in a monetary collapse, your paper money is worth nothing, look at Greece. If you want to preserve your wealth to pass it on then gold, silver or property is the only way. Take a leaf from the richest 0.3% who own 40% of the property, business, gold and silver in the world.

        42. 1.Absolutist statements are usually incorrect
          2. Yes the greater fool theory of investing. Is this what you do?
          3. Incorrect. You need to ask the landlord (local council) for planning permission. Your renting landlord will do pretty much what you like, if you pay for it and it improves the value. And no house is “free”, even when the mortgage is paid off.
          4. You have no idea what my savings are doing. What makes you think I have not put my savings into accounts that provide inflation protection? How do you know that I do not already own gold? And property is not a good inflation hedge, in my opinion.

        43. 1. Nope its true. Do some research.
          2. nope, but others do, and make a fortune at it. Most of them. When was the last time you saw a Property Speculator biking to his council house?
          4. I doubt any landlord will improve your rented home, at vast cost, without inventing a way to get his money back, ie jacking up your rent subtsbtially. More dead money you never get back, but he does., Thats cos he owns the house and you dont.
          5.You can have as much paper currency in ‘inflation protected’ accounts as you like. In a currency crash, when the currency goes to zero, as all fiat currencies in history have, it becomes worthless, period. Gold , Silver, jewels, food, water, fuel, ammunition, guns , spades, property. The only things worth owning in a currency crash

        44. 1. What precisely is the hypothesis you want me to investigate here? Its not clear from your statement.
          2. Economic profits were negative in the real estate industry at the end of the last cycle (ending around 2008 or so). This meant that wealth was destroyed rather than produced and most investors lost money. We are coming to the end of the subsequent cycle. Confident?
          3. Note, that I said, “if you pay for it”. Anyway, if you are really keen for an substantial improvement in your living conditions when renting, you can just move. Job done.
          4. Again, who said anything about paper currency? Are you sure the value of your property won’t crash like it did 7 years ago? If I was going to buy a house I would do it in a property crash and get the house at its true value (maybe buy it in cash). Meanwhile, the value of your equity in your home could be completely destroyed if you bought your home at the top of the market.

        45. Own a home for say 40yrs. maintenance of 40yrs and you only come out in a I broke even life, if lucky.

        46. Don’t forget to take the interest off the home loan of that 85k you think you made. The best part of owning a home is if you have a family that’s it.

        47. Correct. 85K appreciation (thanks to Fed money printing) +57K ‘rent savings’ minus 19K in taxes. Everyone’s situation is different. I looked at houses in St. Albens when working for a company in Central London. If I was there I would be renting.

        48. Your constant harping about inflation means you don’t understand what drives the demand for more money in an economy besides sheer population growth. It is also the exponential nature of the future interest obligation associated with bank credit money. In the UK, due to the collapsing of your currency as a meaningful reserve currency, currency stability has been maintained via home mortgages.
          Over 90% of all new british pounds are from commercial banks and carry a future interest obligation.
          It is a unique game, but your country is on the verge of civil war. Your numbers in some computer may one day not be as valuable as a cottage on the isle of man.

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    4. Well done. That’s what I’m currently slowly but surely working towards. The goal for the woman and I is to eventually have some land with chickens, goats, hunting dogs and a small passel of children under foot.

      1. Passel bruh?
        passel
        ˈpas(ə)l/
        noun
        USinformal
        noun: passel; plural noun: passels
        a large group of people or things.”a passel of journalists”

      2. Good luck. As I said earlier, “feminism is the enemy.” Give a man a noble dream, and the freedom to pursue that dream, then the world (and most importantly, his family) will be a better place. The “problem” with your dream is some fool is going to complain about chicken shit and goat shit. That’s not freedom. Personally, I hope you get to do what you want on your land.

      3. Until the state, such as Colorado, orders you off your own property telling you you can’t camp or live off the grid.
        Local govt is far worse than the Feds. They covet power over the smallest details of one’s life and business with their ridiculous ordinances. St George Utah banned (where do they get the authority to ban anything?) anyone from renting out rooms like Air Bnb.

      1. Living the dream brother. It’s hardly an extravagant dream. A home, two kids, 16 years of marriage, and I own my own business. My kids go to private school, we belong to a country club, and we have two time shares. You can call me a liar if you choose. But I know my life and you don’t.

        1. “Living the dream brother. It’s hardly an extravagant dream. A home, two kids, 16 years of marriage, and I own my own business. My kids go to private school, we belong to a country club, and we have two time shares..”
          Good for you. But you are ‘living the dream’ because you got lucky. I think most guys here would definitely want to have their own business, a good wife by ones’s side and a place to call home. I repeat, you got lucky. Don’t come in here and imply (which you are doing) on how easy it is to have such a life. Take an objective look at the world of today.

        2. I admitted somewhere in here that I was lucky. But let me leave you with some quotes that I like: “The more I practice, the luckier I get.” The other one I like is “it took me 20 years to become an overnight success.” The final quote is “Show me who you read, and I will tell you who you are.”
          You tell me to take an objective look at the world. I have, and I have created my world in it. I would tell you to take an objective look at the man in the mirror.

      1. Do you want ROK to be a mere echo chamber? (Oh Roosh, you are so wise and wonderful, I will do whatever you say). Or can Roosh and his writers withstand critical scrutiny? (I believe they can and they welcome it, even relish it).
        My only point is that every man has a season to his life, be it teenager, young adult, middle age, senior/retired, super senior. As a young adult, renting is absolutely the way to go. How long are you going to be a young adult? You are going to get older. Are you really going to be a 45 year old man going to the club and renting a studio apartment? What will give your life meaning and success? As a middle age man, I know what it’s like to be a young adult. A young adult can only read about what it is like to be a middle age man.
        What you need to do (meaning all men), is balance the needs to “live for today” while at the same time “preparing for the future.” I have no idea how you (individually) will balance those two needs. You will make choices, and those choices will have consequences. Is this article good advice? The answer is, it depends upon how old you are and what season of your life you are in.

        1. You make a good point here, Lance. Everyone has heard the expression ‘stay young at heart’ but how does that apply when a man hits 45? I’m not fool enough to dress like a hipster faggot even though I still have a slender young and fit physique. Yet I cannot relate to male friends my age with their pot belly and their married life. All my friends who are married have a horrible life, and nothing saddens me more then visiting them with their saggy titted, chewed up and barfed disgusting wives.
          I’m still able to get with chicks under 30 but I also know I’m on borrowed time. That said, however I will never settle down, nor settle for spending time with some old bag niether. This has everything to do with all the shit I’ve been through growing up in femerika and seeing the bullshit behavior from my female siblings as well as women in general as I was growing up in the States. Everytime I see an older woman who is all ‘nice’ I am fully aware what a cunt she was when she was in her 20’s. It’s this res3ntment that gas given my resolve to never waste one’s timw with a female past her prime. I am aware that this means being literally alone for the remainder of my duration of my life. I’m not saying it is going to be pleasant, that, and I’m not looking forward to growing old. Growing old is a disease, like leprisy that robs a man of his strength and his dignity. Unless they can develop a means od reversing the aging process in 10 years time, I plan at some point to call it quits and terminate my life. Sounds extreme? This could be the norm for men some day soon.

        2. I bet you and I agree that life is made up of choices. I have no idea who you are, or what you like, I don’t know anything about the choices you have made in your life and the experiences which have shaped those choices. Because I don’t know these things, it would be foolish of me to tell you how you should live your life.
          My own life? I couldn’t be happier. At 45, I have to exercise regularly and eat healthy in order to keep lead in my pencil. My dream in life is to celebrate my 60th wedding anniversary, surrounded by my children, grand children and maybe even great grandchildren. Between my wedding day and 60th anniversary, what kind of experiences have I had? What are my joys and sorrows, what kind of purpose and legacy did I leaver behind?
          We all have things in common, and we all have our differences. Make the choices you think are best for you and then live with the consequences of those choices. What I like about ROK is when men discuss things that are important.

        3. “My dream in life is to celebrate my 60th wedding anniversary, surrounded by my children, grand children and maybe even great grandchildren”
          And that’s the way it should be.
          I’ve spent the majority of my life working and traveling the World over. Main thing that motivated this was me being put off by the decline of American women, much like Roosh. I was kind of chasing after utopia and was discovering how westernization was contaminating western and eastern europe as well as south america, or perhaps I had some extreme the-grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side syndrome. I have still enjoyed some great experiences, but i can also respect what you have made for yourself despite the current state of affairs.

    5. And Obama can dump Somali muslims next door to you via section 8 & his new fair housing law.

    6. And if shit goes sideways with your marriage, your wife and kids will still have a great home to live in… you, not so much.

  2. Good article overall. My personal goal is to eventually put 100% on my first home.
    Of course, that requires a housing crash first, which is coming considering that nobody has really learned the lessons of 2008.

    1. House crashes are irrelevant to people with managable mortgage who don’t intend moving

      1. This. If you can put 20% down and get a fixed 30 yr mortgage that’s comparable to what you’d pay monthly renting, then the market is irrevelent unless you are looking to sell.

        1. Deflation, liberal neighbours invading your neighbourhood, unforeseen capital repairs, lack of portfolio diversification, reduction of optionality and inability to leave the country as things get more and more out of hand (and yes this will happen)

      2. Actually, I’m just done with debt. I’d rather loan money to banks via checking and saving accounts than take out loans from them.

  3. As a renter for six years and currently researching buying a small apartment, I would have agreed a couple of years ago because up to that point I have had cool landlords who, among other things, returned the deposit in full overlooking small damage here and there and never showed up without having arranged a meeting. Then I ran into one of the biggest assholes I have met who would even dig around the freezer, was extremely aggressive for no reason, and whenever something needed to get fixed he would arrange it in such a way that it would be easier for me to do it myself. And he kept 3/4 of the deposit when I was finally fed up and left. Owning is about safety and sanity and you should own at least one property of your own even if you travel for work and have to rent temporarily.

    1. What jurisdiction is this? The landlord cannot walk away with most of your deposit without good reason in the UK.

      1. Well, I don’t live in the UK and what happens with the deposit after year one is up to the landlord. Contracts where I live generally favor the landlord. Renting was supposed to be the lesser of two evils since the real estate market is insane, but it still leaves the situation of someone you don’t know having a key to where you live, I wasn’t as creeped out by him as much as I was be his sister in law who lived nearby. Just like any other contractual obligation, the person on the other side might turn out to be a whacko. I had to move one other time because of room mates drinking and stealing and so on, and I decided that I’ll be looking into buying my own place after uni, even if it’s a small one. Sometimes the human factor outweighs makes all the difference, I am willing to pay for privacy and sanity.

        1. You didn’t mention the jurisdiction. In the UK you are protected by a contact and the landlord cannot enter your home without written permission. Also, the deposit is held in escrow and cannot be released without your express consent or a judge’s court order.
          I would never recommend living with roommates. Bound to be trouble. If you can’t afford your own place, live with your parents until you can.

      2. Where can landlords do this? Try anywhere and everywhere!
        They will fabricate damages and recently added “cleaning fees” upon move out even if the place is left spic and span clean.

  4. I actually live in an RV which in my case is a step above renting apartments. I only pay the rent for the spot, I don’t pay utilities, because I don’t pay electricity, my kitchen appliances are all electric so I don’t need gas, I have access to a washing machine and dryer, the park is quiet. In fact, it is not your stereotypical white trash RV park. The neighbors are quiet and courteous. Oh, and the RV is mine. In fact, I am trying to gift me a new one for Xmas. Good option for a single guy, not much for a family.

  5. It’s wrong that renters don’t have to worry about things. Costs will be passed onto to you in higher rent. It won’t be immediate, but you will see it. My own personal example is that there was a vote in my town to raise the property taxes to pay for some SJW stuff. Undoubtedly, occupants in my building voted for it. Time passes and now I see flyers in the elevator bitterly complaining about increased rent without any corresponding added value to the building. No shit. You’re paying the property tax you voted for.

  6. Like the author, I have 0 interest in buying a house unless it was overseas.
    I love the flexibility of getting up leaving on whim if I chose to. if something does goes wrong the LL sends some one to fix, not me.Not worrying about HOA’s, maintenance cutting grass or any other of BS that I don’t want to do anyway. Of course with anything there are downside to renting but I think there are far more benfits to renting than not renting. Well at least as a single man, no kids and never married

  7. I agree with all your points regarding precarious employment and liabilities.
    As a single male in his mid 20’s, I managed to find an older home (1983 & very outdated) in the suburbs with additional bedrooms. If you have the money, why not buy within your means and become the landlord? I have 2 tenants who pay nearly 95% of my mortgage (68% factoring in property taxes, utilities and home insurance). Both are rarely home, so 5 days a week it feels like nobody lives in the house except for me. Millennials are obsessed with overpriced 200 sqft condos in a concrete jungle in the middle of the downtown core. They have no basic DIY skills for updating older homes or pride in making something their own.
    Get a place near a highway, especially one finished with a basement apartment and rent out the basement for as long as you can. Extra money for minimal working hours is a non-starter.

    1. You are correct. I am glad a young man has the foresight to see this. It may be a bit of a struggle at first, but it will payoff big time, when the house is fully paid for and the rent you receive is profit.

      1. Thanks.
        In the long run, we should always see our home as a “home” first and not just an investment. In the long-term, I plan on having tenants for as long as I can and accumulate as much added wealth with as little effort.
        Would I have a girlfriend living with me and 2 tenants at the same time? Probably not. It would be a mutually exclusive scenario. The exception being if I had a basement apartment with a private entrance, which is what a lot of people are doing in my parents neighbourhood.
        At my current rate, I hope to have my home paid off in 10-12 years instead of 25 years.

        1. Investments have positive cash flow. You may think you are making money from the increases in price but that is an illusion.

      2. That’s a high risk/low return strategy. You are better off renting, saving the difference between that and the costs of buying a house and using the accumulated amount to buy a annuity at retirement, and use the income to pay your rent whereever you are.

    2. Agreed. My wife and I bought a cheap house in the older part of our town. Nice and quiet area, house is from the 70’s, but is in pretty good condition, and the surrounding area is growing fast. We paid 129K for it and the price has jumped to 160K within just 4-5 years. If I didn’t have 3 small kids in the house, I’d look into renting the back area of the house; a finished garage space.

      1. I did a lot of research on Kijiji to see the going-rate in my area. At first I was hoping to break even, but after reality settles in, I was content to have on average 68-70% of my monthly costs (mortgage, taxes, insurance, utilities) covered by my tenants. My primary objective was to find a place I could live financially comfortably without having tenants. Having them on board just makes living even easier.
        Better yet, you can write off all these expenses & interest on your mortgage and hopefully dwindle your additional taxes down to a chew-able amount.
        I could never live in a condo. I’m absolutely disgusted by the idea of having to pay maintenance fees for stuff I can do myself whether it be landscaping or snowshovelling. And guess what? Maintenance fees never go down, unless you’ve cracked the code to the matrix of course. I consider them to be a “lost investment”.
        When I was browsing, I saw an incredible 1 bedroom/den condo in the downtown for only 178k. But guess what? Maintenance fees were 700$/month! Who in their right mind would waste that kind of money?

    3. That is pretty much what I did, but with new construction. Bought a townhouse in my early 20’s and rented out 2 of the rooms for the next 10 years.
      Most of my mortgage+taxes was paid for. Took depreciation and expensed upgrades and expenses. Profits went into a SEP IRA.
      Take the gifts the tax code gives you…

  8. Third option. Buy a boat.
    All the benefits of renting and owning and few to none of the downsides:
    You own your home. You don’t have to pay rent or work 30 years to pay for it.
    You have seaside view for a fraction of the cost compared to an apartment with a view to the next building.
    If you don’t like your neighbors you can just move, instantly, anywhere coastal in the world.
    Cheap to free travel, anywhere, and stay for as long as you want for free.
    No landlords, no property taxes.
    Yearly upkeep and insurance etc. cost less than rent for a two room apartment.

    1. Unfortunately as this becomes more popular the Coastal and Berthing authorities are looking for some of the tax pie and charging people living on boats more and more for berthing. It is still less than apartment maintenance fees but they’re creeping up. Definitely find out the law as regards river/harbour berthing. In my country you have to move the boat every 2 days in some areas to avoid fines.

  9. As a person who likes my privacy and peace, apartments aren’t for me. Perhaps I just always get stuck beside the asshole neighbors but I just can’t ever seem to have a quiet area.
    I rented an apartment during my grad studies and I swear it sounded like my neighbor would bounce a basketball against our connecting wall for 15-20 minutes at a time, all hours of the day or night. I was seriously tempted to glue his bike lock shut in retaliation.

    1. I’m misophonic myself, so I requested a more private place when I placed my Craigslist ad. Praise God, the exact type of apartment I was looking for in the exact area I wanted it.

  10. If anyone here has been thinking about purchasing a home, wait a little longer. The present housing bubble will pop in the next few years. You will be able to “steal” the house.

        1. Its bigger bubble than 2008. US has never experienced such an extended period (7 years and counting) of near zero interest rates before. Its not normal. People are buying properties, flipping them with new paint and carpet after one year and making fast cash. That’s a bubble. Ultra low interest rates are like crack cocaine for the economy.

    1. again, location dependent. I made a whole long post about agreeing with renting in New York City….however, that was for living purposes.
      From a strictly investment standpoint, the safest and most lucrative investment in the world with the highest ROI is real estate in manhattan.
      If you buy a apartment right now for 1m (and there are plenty of nice and liveable apartments in the 900k-1.2m range), you with, barring the Mayan Apocalypse (which is, if I am not mistaken, when Danny Trejo smashes the world like a pinata and Selma Hyek’s tits go flying everywhere), have a 5 times minimum return on investment by the time a 20 year mortgage is over at which point you can take that money and move to some place in north Carolina and live by your own rules for the rest of your life.
      This isn’t feasible for me because I can never live anywhere other than NYC. Hell, I can’t even live in the outer Burroughs.

      1. I agree with you. A million dollar mortgage is beyond most peoples reach though. I would start off in an area that has homes in the 100k-300k range.

        1. Depends. Many professionals in NYC, if they focus on it as a goal, will earn enough.
          The 20% down is the hard part. Coming up with 200k cash isn’t the easiest thing in the world. But if you find a place with a decent abatement, reasonable common charges etc etc then, even after taxes, so long as you qualify for a good interest rate, you will pay about the same or even less in your monthly mortgage than the rent on a comparable apartment.
          I made my decision to continue renting recently, but it is one that gets revisited time and again.
          I can get a Condo which is nicer than my current apartment and pay slightly less every month if I just come up with the nut on the front end which, if you are prudent with money, work hard, etc won’t be hard for most professional positions in Manhattan. Not to say it is easy, it would require a lot of up front suffering. If I planned to have a child one day I would do it. The suffering now would ensure he had a much easier life than I did based solely on the value of that condo. But I have no desire to procreate or couple so, at my age, the idea of investing a couple of years of monk like living in order to get an investment which won’t pay off until I retire doesn’t make any sense to me seeing as how I never plan to leave the city.

        2. Also, from a strictly investment view point I do not trust the value, bubble or no, of any non new york city real estate.

        3. You are doing well for yourself. Better than most. If you can afford it, great, you could make a lot of profit. Hope it works out for you.

        4. I do alright. There is a lot of money to be made in new york city. Also, the cost of living is through the roof. I think, at the end of the day, it pretty much averages out. I may make 60% more than someone doing my same job in, say, Charlotte, but I also pay 60% more for food at the store, for drinks (20 dollar cocktails!) and even more than that for housing.
          Not saying I don’t do well, I do. But no better, I believe, than most people who work hard and apply themselves and get a little bit lucky.

        5. Banks are not looking at how much the principal of the mortgage is. They focus on how much you can afford to pay monthly. $1 million mortgage paid back in 40 years has a smaller monthly payment than 15 years.

  11. I agree absolutely whole heatedly with this article and could probably think of another 4 reasons off the top of my head before my morning coffee.
    I will say that there is a caveat. While I am by no means a young man any more, I am single, have no children, wife, etc. etc. My home is my fortress of solitude. Further, I live in Manhattan. Because of this I have access to anything I want. I have no need for a vehicle (though now and then I will buy a motorcycle at the beginning of the summer and sell it at the end and someone is selling a mint condition VW Karman Ghia that looks like an old DB5 which I might by for fun but a vehicle isn’t NECESSARY)
    Washing machine and dryer? I am not a woman or mike chang…I have them pick up and deliver. If I live for 3 years in an apartment i won’t hit all the bars and restaurants in walking distance from my apartment. I can actually manage to have an ongoing relationship with 3 women in walking distance and never run into them. Need a pool table? Why? Billiards hall 3 blocks away open till 4 am. Grocery shopping? Well I can do fresh direct, but I would rather walk to whole foods, give them stroller brigade a thrill, pick out my groceries and have paco deliver them.
    If I was in any other part of the country I would want a house that I could make my own and set up so I wouldn’t ever have to leave. However, a 2 bedroom 1.5 bath with a full kitchen in NYC at 800 square feet, along with the amenities that the city offers, is more than enough.
    I don’t need to own. The landlord can’t kick me out. I have a lease and renters rights here. As long as I pay my rent, if he wants me out he has to buy me out — and seeing as I live in a low rise building in a growing area on NYC — that will eventually happen…
    Larger point is. Renting is absolutely the best choice in NYC for anyone that isn’t so rich that money is some abstract conceptual green toilet paper that you just give to people when you want something for some reason.
    However, elsewhere…..I could not imagine not having a house with a garage that I can make a grown up pleasure palace.

  12. I would buy a house/apartment under one circumstance:
    Having the cash to pay for it. No bank, no creditor, no bullshit.
    Otherwise renting cheap is the only smart way to go.

    1. Really? Have you been paying attention to interest rates? Under 5% is dirt cheap. After 15 years of paying rent, what do you have to show for it? After 15 years paying a mortgage you have a house.

        1. Depends on what you can afford. Most people are not hipster net millionaires. Mortgages are the banks encroaching on your time in this life. 15, 20 year mortgage….the only thing is you can sell the house and move on…. maybe you actually make some dough…..I’m veering more towards renting if I was to do it all over again….

        2. It can be done. I am blue collar, born with a wooden spoon in my mouth. I am looking to sell my current house soon. Next house will be my third, I have been upgrading each time with the equity from the previous one.

        3. Well done. And I’m not being sarcastic, I mean it. Even though I didn’t get too stung I live in country where property prices were halved about 7 years ago with the crash and are only recovering now. Those 7 years are gone for most people. They are back where they started. Funny thing is it’s happening all over again. Rents going through the roof, etc. You can probably guess but I’m not telling…. just be careful and do you homework…. don’t believe the hype…

        4. Thank you. I did get hit with the 2008 crash. Not too badly though. This time I did my homework. I am going to sell before the next bubble pops, then buy after prices drop.

        5. It will be all over the news. Like last time. Also keep an eye on housing prices. You will know when it happens.

        6. When it’s all over the news it will be too late to sell at peak price.

        7. Yes, I meant that that would be the time to buy. I can’t nail down exactly when it will happen, but it should be in the next few years. That’s why I will be selling next year. Then I will rent until prices drop.

      1. What if I don’t wanna work a boring job for 15 years just to pay off my bank loan?
        I love my freedom and independence.

        1. If freedom to roam the earth is important to you, then I guess ownership is not for you. Maybe to rent it out as investment? The rent could pay for most of your mortgage. Then maybe have a paid for house to retire in.

        2. If you work for someone, you are their bitch. If you own your own business, you are the customers bitch. If you live in a country, you are the governments bitch. There is no escape, might as well make some cash!

        3. Regrettably they aren’t. Unless you’re keeping your life’s savings in a briefcase under your bed, then we’ll always be ‘the banks bitch’.
          The bank uses your savings to invest, and only passes on a small amount back to you while profiting the rest. Essentially our life savings are dwindling away in value as inflation surpasses the rate of returns.

        4. The little bit of money an average person has on his bank account is peanuts to a bank. Loans and mortgages are a whole different league. Deposits don’t make a bank powerful, people’s debts do.

        5. Exactly. That’s why banks no longer provide the same incentives to save like they did decades ago. Why encourage people to save when you have easy access to cheap credit that you can loan them with interest?
          Makes sense, but it is probably not sustainable.

    2. The banks money is the cheapest money you will ever have access to.. Debt is not a bad thing if you know how to use it correctly.
      Put the banks cheap money to work for you. If they give it to you at 5% and you can make it return 15%, that is a 10% margin..

        1. If you want higher returns right now, buy rentals in the south, or remote from any big coastal city.
          You will see sizable increases in returns from depreciation over the period of which you are taking depreciation as offsetting “profits from rent cashflow with “loses” from “physical degredation”. Thus you could be in the situation where you pay no taxes on the rent received in excess of your actual costs. Depending on your tax situation this could be a sizeable gain for you because you are able to take the “loss” over multiple years rather than a single year and shield more money than a 1 time charge ever could.
          Say for example you have a total of $3,000 of positive cashflow for a year after all expenses are paid. If you have a $90k property and are writing off $3,000 a year as depreciation, then you have zero tax liability (check with your accountant for your situation). If for example you were in a 15% tax bracket on that income, congrats you just saw a 15% gain on your return. Had you not claimed that depreciation you would not have held that gain, though the IRS would have concluded you had taken the gain come time to sell the property.
          While you would have a different tax basis should you sell the property, this resets if you replace it with a new rental property.

        2. I’ve gotten fucked for the last 7 years on buying 2 investment rentals in the south. One I have finally struggled to turn profitable. Meanwhile, the other is bleeding me dry.
          Returns from depreciation are not real profits. They do help reduce my income tax burden, and one of the best features of investing in real estate is that I paid zero income tax (legally) this year due to depreciation and other paper deductions.
          I do think that investment real estate can be a good deal if you pay cash. Then it basically turns a lump sum into a cash free annuity that funds your lifestyle. But if borrowing money, making that bank nut every month can be extremely difficult, and if things take a nose dive, you have 100% of the risk, even though you put up a minority of the purchase price.

        3. Yep, a property being empty hurts, and thats why you have to figure it in to the price of the rental itself.
          As for not being real profits, from an accounting standpoint that is true. From a practical standpoint, you have cash in hand that would not be there otherwise if you had an actual cost associated. I guess its a matter of perspective.

        4. Keep in mind you must recapture your depreciation when you sell the property. It’s a tax deferment.

  13. Dude… land-lord. I’m not a serf. I’ll have my house paid off in about 36 months and then for the rest of my life it’s MY property. It’s a huge sacrifice initially but completely worth it. If I wish to live somewhere else and cheap in the future I can rent my home and be semi-retired.

    1. You mean, for the rest of your life it’s yours and the governments property, instead of yours, the governments, and the banks.

      1. Once you own it the banks can fuck off and not bother you. You will have to pay your annual taxes to the local council and stuff but you will own that house and be naked all day.

      2. Well nobody is immune from government overreach these days. Not naive enough to believe that. But fortunately I live in a pretty red county with low property taxes etc.

        1. You will soon be integrated with Obama section 8 and Mid East “refugees” which will bring big changes and costs to your area.
          Happening now in Minn, Maine, and Idaho
          Refugeeresettlement.com

  14. Completely disagree with this article. Renting is a waste of money. You’re paying someone else’s mortgage. In my city rent is just and if not more expensive than a mortgage payment/month. Land lord is gaining equity while you are throwing your money away. Money is so cheap now whats wrong with having a 40 year mortgage. The money you make in equity on your house should now be re-invested making 8-10% a year. Simple economics.

    1. “Money is so cheap now”.. As I said before. There is a reason the money is so cheap now. Ever asked the question why?

      1. The question “why” I think is irrelevant. As long as you are not naive about the situation and make sound investment you can take advantage of our current economical state. I understand nothing is a guarantee but I have access to more money and have almost zero debt (if i go liquid I will be in the green), 40 years ago when rates where 25% that’s when people needed to save money and pay off mortgages etc. and could not afford to go into to debt. With some calculated risk and some balls money can make money now a days.

  15. I bought this house I’m in 7 years ago and within a month of buying it, I knew, owning a home is not for me. It’s a cash hog and really nothing but a ball and chain. In most cases, it’s a shitty investment to buy, I don’t care what anyone says. Add up the taxes and all of the costs of the home and you aren’t getting much out of it at all. Equity that’s it. I’m trying to dump this thing now. It’s a ball and chain worse than any angry bitchy cottage cheese legged cunt….well maybe not that bad.

    1. whats wrong with equity? On my 2nd house now. Over 100k in equity plus the 100k I already paid off my mortgage. In almost 6 years in and I can walk away with about 200k. My friends who are renting can’t say that. And there’s is no way after taxes and home ownership cost I am in the hole.

    2. A house you live in isn’t an investment unless you are renting out rooms.
      Depending on your financial situation, you may have come out ahead due to interest and tax deductions from using it as your residence, and if you were able to rent and depreciate it, you should come out way ahead.

  16. #1 – Never buy an asset to primarily pursue a capital gain. You cannot predict the market, do not even try.
    #2 – Any asset that you buy, you buy it as a *long term* investment that generates cashflow.
    #3 – If it flies, fucks or floats. Lease it don’t buy it… You do not want to be sinking working capital into something that is a) not going to generate revenue, & b) you are eventually going to want/need to sell, trade or upgrade.
    #4 – Risk always balances reward, those quick capital gains made via speculation are easy come and twice as easy to go.
    #5 – There is no quick and easy way to the top, it’s a combination of hard work and innovation (business) or time and planning (investment).
    The nature of markets is that they cycle, always have and always will. When they bust you do not want to be the chump who is leveraged up to their eyeballs and *needing* to sell. You want to be the guy who is liquid and can offer the chump cents in the dollar for his speculative “investments”.. Leasing keeps you liquid, it reserves your working capital exclusively for the purchase of revenue generating assets. The larger the quantity and more diverse the revenue generating assets you have, the less reliant on any income you become.

      1. They are low for a reason. If you do what everybody else is doing, you will end just like everybody else.

    1. Unless you live in a tent at a state park, you are either paying a bank, paying rent, or own a structure to live in. In all cases capital is tied up.

  17. You could always get yourself a decent truck and a nice travel trailer. It’s considered a house by IRS standard so interest on the mortgage of the trailer is tax deductible. It’s mobile and you own it.

    1. For real even well paid employees at tech firms like google are living in vans. They eat in the company cafeteria, shower at the company gym. I could do that for about a year but then I’d go crazy.

      1. It would pay for itself in a couple of years from the money you save from renting. Then when you want to upgrade, you can trade it in.
        Granted you will need to find a campground for long term rent for a spot with water/electric/sewer hook ups. Use UPS store with mail boxes for your mail. Mobile service for internet. You would save that fuck you money or money for a house paid in full real quick.

        1. They park in the company parking lot. Take mail at the office. Use the company gym to shit, shower, and shave. Get internet on their smart phone. The van is only for sleeping 6 hours a day. They bank like 90% of their pay check after taxes. These aren’t homeless people living under the bridge. Tech workers with real jobs. Paying off student loans. Don’t want random room mates off craigs list. Its a rational decision by educated people. With hook up culture they can get laid at her place once a month.

  18. Real estate markets are local and behave differently. If you’re in high cost market like NYC or London, you’re single, in your 20s and 30s, its logical to rent. But you can buy your own home on the outskirts of a mid-size city in america for a steal sometimes. Usually assets you accumulate before marriage are out of reach from your spouse. So if you buy that condo before you get married, she probably cant take it away from you.

  19. One can pay rent to a landlord, and pay a security deposit to justify fucking the place up. Or, one can pay rent in the form of taxes, to deal with renters who own nothing. Everyone rents. “Home owners” aint fooling anyone but themselves.

  20. Finally, an article on ROK that is worth discussing.
    The truth of the matter is, neither renting or buying property are worthy options, especially to the millenial generation.
    In regards to buying property, I can tell you from first hand experience that the reality of owning property is an absolute nightmare. From having to payback the mortgage/loan (including any fluctuations with interest rates that may potentially occur) that you used to buy the property, to having to ensure that all the housing association costs are payed, insurance is paid along with all the insane property taxes, in reality, there is no freedom attached towards having freehold property.
    Furthermore, if you own rental property, it is a constant stress having to ensure that the property has reliable tenants that will pay you on time and not trash your property. In essence, it will be your responsibility to pay on time for any property you buy and own, irrespective of whatever circumstance you find yourself in such as job layoff etc. You are in a nutshell, grounded for the long run.
    In regards to renting property, this is an absolute disaster in the long run. The current rate of market rent is outrageous and especially in cities such as San Francisco and Los Angeles. It is an unfortunate precedent that has been set and will be taken advantage of by greedy landlords. A 1 bedroom apartment that is the size of a cupboard will cost around $3000 per month in a big metropolitian city. Ridiculous and pathetic. In addition to the insane rental costs, landlords will also include clauses in your contract that will hold you liable to pay for any rent which is owed by your roomate, who has decided to leave. It is getting worse over time for the rental market and this is how I honestly feel at this point.
    I would rather give all of my hard earned savings to charities around the world and die of starvation and homelessness, than to give a cent of it to some scumbag, greedy landlord, who is laughing his way to the bank. Seriously, I discussed this issue a while back on another article in ROK (http://www.returnofkings.com/54902/8-things-you-can-do-to-live-a-good-life-for-cheap) and at the current rate, if you want to save money, you are honestly better off living in your car and getting a gym membership. I would rather have a bank account with money, than to go broke for the basic necessities such as a roof and shower. Last time I checked, a car and a gym, also provided me with this.

    1. Fully agree with this, and I have been severely scorched by rental property as well–the quality of the tenants and the general public is so low, and the laws are stacked against landlords. In many European countries, it is common for families to live together until marriage. I think this is in most ways an excellent plan. I have seen it in Latin American communities as well, where the families will typically live in houses next to each other (mom, brother, uncle, all on the same street). It saves money, strengthens social bonds, would absolutely improve the quality of behavior in women (and men), and is less resource intensive.
      Yes landlords can be greedy and heartless, but that’s because they are getting shafted on the other end by horrible tenants. Not a defense, just a logical explanation. If landlords treat people well, they are not rewarded. If they are too ‘nice’ they are taken advantage of and stolen from. However, the cost of living in a multi-unit apartment dwelling is considerably less than a detached home of the same size, and often utility costs are much lower (I have friends who hardly ever turn on their heat because the adjacent units seem heat into theirs).
      I do almost all my showering at my gym. Water and sewer is expensive here, and I can save more than the cost of my gym membership simply by showering there. I wish I could live in a small garage apartment at my parents place, and even offered to build one on their property, but they declined. So I bought a house much larger than I need with a yard to maintain. It’s not all bad–I love having a garden and privacy, but overall it’s a system designed to enrichen bankers, real estate agents, utility companies, etc. at the expense of family values.

      1. My buddy’s parents went 70k in the hole because the tenants of their rental property completely trashed the place and left.
        This investment that they thought would help them retire ended up fucking them over in the end. Sad.

        1. i was more talking about pushing the self-detruct button of western civilization, which is practically the same thing as fraternizing with immigrants yeah.

        2. do people do background checks on potential renters in canada? i think they do that in the US. important question for me, since i’m a first-time homeowner now, and i might be headed overseas long term again. logically i’ll want to rent the place out, but avoid what happened to your friends’ parents. i’ve heard of similar things happening here.

        3. I’ve never been a landlord so I don’t know the answer to that.
          I think they never expected people to have such low standards as the people that lived in the apartment. I’ve lived with disgusting people as a renter and I have to say some people really do have no standards.

        4. my grandparents rented out a house once, and the renters bored holes in the floor and walls. big holes, and not for any discernible purpose. it just seemed like they did it for the hell of it. that’s the kind of thing that worries me.

      2. Dont’t forget to include the home improvement industry, the largest collective brainwashing machine in the country. It started years ago with Bob Vila and this old house on PBS which has become nothing more than subsidized product placement.
        Add HGTV and its phoney glamorized house flipping and remodeling programs that fueled the disastrous housing boom and bust 10 years ago. Add the ever annoying corporate giants Home Depot and Lowes.
        Watch these programs and you too will convince yourself you must tear down some walls and add all stainless commercial grade appliances to your kitchen where you cook once a week.

        1. What’s funny is how ‘faddy’ most of these things are. All appliances are mostly made of steel, but they act as if a stainless steel appliance is something special–the only thing they did is polish the exterior into a shiny semi-reflective surface and charge premium prices for it. And stone or ceramic surfaces have been around for ages. But now they can charge premiums for “granite” countertops as if they are something special. The last renovation job I did on a rental property, the builder threw in free granite countertops because they really didn’t cost much more than the basic version we agreed on. I have heard the next trend is bright white appliances, and have already seen super expensive white refrigerators. Of course in the 60s and 70s all refrigerators looked like this. Just like fashion, all this stuff moves in cycles. If you think about it, stainless steel looks pretty plain and utilitarian and soviet to me. Whatever, I don’t plan on replacing anything in my house unless it breaks.

    2. “The truth of the matter is, neither renting or buying property are worthy options, especially to the millenial generation.”
      This is just part of the grand scheme of artificial poverty. In my part of the world, population is declining, real estate is booming, quality of construction is crap and prices have doubled in the past 15 years. Economy 101 straight in to the trash bin and nothing but net. Utilities and consumer goods follow the trend, too. Nobody is moving out of their parents, If you are 25 and can pay for your own clothes and *gasp* even have a car, you are ahead of the curve. It’s so exciting to be of the ‘working poor’ , your work is rewarded enough to survive to work another day.

      1. Nice post from you and Truth.
        Here in the tri-state area(NY/Conn/NJ):
        -almost half of adults 22-30 still live at home(NJ)
        -evicting someone on section8 housing? good luck. I have read numerous stories of trashed apartments once they finally are evicted(even better luck evicting a single mom, last time I read, it took an avg of 18 months to do so)
        -huge, and I mean HUGE, water main break in Queens, NY(outer borough of NYC); developer recently received a fine in the amount of $1500 for breaking ground w/o a permit. Shortly thereafter, the workers ruptured the water main, causing hundreds of thousands in damages
        The system is entirely corrupted at this point.

  21. This article is pretty hilarious, but I guess there are a lot of people with short term time orientations.

  22. I’ve been renting for 5 years – I rent a really nice apartment that’s a 10 minute walk to my job and a 10 minute walk to the center of the city where all the shops/bars are. I don’t need to own a car and I walk everywhere. I sublet the car parking space in my apartment for $100 a month and the apartment is really well insulated so I have no heating bills. Cheap living. I don’t need anything bigger.
    I’m 31, and by living this way (I enjoy life but don’t waste money) I have saved up $200,000. I am tempted to buy a house at some point, but they are so overpriced where I am. The reason why most people put their money into a house is that they don’t know what else to do with their money, and governments can and do destroy currency values over time.
    I think there’s a lot of truth in the idea of never living in a bigger place that you need to live in. Saves so much money and time.

      1. To put it in context, my rent is £575 a month. I sublet the car parking for £70 a month, so that’s £505 I’m paying. As a renter I pay no building maintenance fees, no council tax, no flat maintenance, which I estimate come to about £175 a month at least.
        To buy an apartment like the one I’m in would cost at least £120,000, probably more. And even if I owned it outright, I’d still have all the monthly outgoings that I don’t have at the moment. And if I get bad neighbors or the area in general goes downhill (as it seems to be), it’s harder to escape.

        1. Presumably most of those fees are covered by your rent, unless the landlord is renting for a loss and hoping for capital appreciation.

        2. My landlord bought my flat for £145,000. So with my rent, minus their costs, I’d say they’re making about 3% per year, if that. The flat is currently worth less than what they paid for it.
          I’m very grateful to my landlord as they’re providing a wonderful service for me, and I look after the place and pay my rent on time. Long may it continue.

        3. In the long term probably but in the short/medium term rents typically will take whatever the market bears – which may provide massive or minimal profit.

        1. Yes, Im sure the “Home owners” rent is passed on to the tenant. Whats not passed on is the zoning commision, fire chief, and DEP’s attention. Securit deposit doesnt cover the DEPs fines for the tenant dumping oil and antifreeze on your property then reporting you for it. What does the renter lose when the town claims “your” land under emminent domain? A wonderful landlord?

        2. Yes, but over the long haul they balance each other out. More people will rent places or build places to rent if rents are high enough to cover capital cost, expenses, plus some gain on investment. In the short run – landlords take what they can get – which could be a loss or a massive profit.

        3. In my opinion they do not. I ran the numbers on it, and if you rent you can make a positive return. If you purchase a house, you will most likely make a loss over the long term. Look up Robert Shiller: he found that the long term return for real estate is zero. Return on the market? About 8%. I think that tells you where to put your money.

        4. Long term return for owning real estate is zero because of all of the buying and selling most people do. Most single people buy a condo or townhome. Closing cost on front – 3.5%. Get married -sell place for small SFH – closing cost on back 7%. Closing cost on front – 3.5%. Have a kid or two – upgrade – closing cost on back 7% of purchase price – closing cost on front 3.5%. Get that mid level exec job – repeat. Get higher level exec job – repeat again. Possibly move for job..etc.
          That is a separate analysis from the market of renting which is where people invest in existing homes/apartments or build new ones with the explicit purpose of renting to tenants. The people buying properties FOR rentals aren’t typically doing this (selling repeatedly) and do tend to make mid teens to low 20s cash on cash returns. That is the market I’m referring to where over the long run property taxes are effectively paid by renters (but not in the short term). Why? Simple – there will be almost no new development geared towards renters (condos/townhomes/small family homes) until the total nut covers ALL expenses and estimated future expenses.
          Once the place is built? Market may return more or less than you expect, though.

        5. I understand but most people I know who are in the buy-to-let market are making sub-zero returns. Granted that is anecdotal but it fits within the implications of Shiller’s research. These people rationalise it by thinking “well when this is paid off I will own these properties free and clear”. Sure but what will your return be? Probably zero at best.
          Lets not forget that letting houses is a lot of hard work. This is an opportunity cost that needs to be factored in. Furthermore, if you are investing in buy-to-let the chances are that you have a really poorly diversified portfolio (everything in real estate). This goes against basic investment principles. Better just to invest your money in real estate fund at about 2-3% of your overall portfolio.
          Have you included inflation in your analysis of returns?

        6. Agree with first half and yes I adjust for inflation just like all my returns.
          My Personal POV.
          Single guy = 90-95% = renter
          Just married = 65-75% = renter
          1-2 kids = 50% renter
          3+ kids = 10-25% renter
          Since I believe most guys should be single, most guys should be renters.

    1. Only problem you end up with never buying bigger than you currently need is if you need to buy bigger (get married, 1 kid, 3 kids, etc), you end up paying closing cost – which is 10-12% of the price in total – multiple times. Renting is definitely the way for single men 90% of the time.

      1. Excellent point – my plan is that if I do ever ‘settle down’, the house I buy will be the first and last house I ever buy, so that the various vultures involved only get my money once.

  23. I’ve been on both sides of this-I own and I’ve rented. I must say renting is far more relaxing, if you have a good landlord of course. My current landlord is great-never bothers me and takes care of issues very quickly. Homeownership turned out to be a pain. I bought right before the crash in 2008 unfortunately and took a bath. I still own it since I’d get screwed trying to sell it and am renting it out. I’d love to dump it and just continue renting a place for a while. Buying a home was another lame bill of goods we are sold as kids by our oh so wise elders in my opinion.

  24. Owning a home vs renting one? Own. You make a profit on most sales. You have equity. You end up getting all your rent money back when you move. If you have to you can rent it out.

    1. FYI The rule of thumb before the current recession was that you needed at least 5 years in a home to break even (expenses related to selling, realtor commissions, etc.). That could be even longer in today’s economy.

      1. On a 30yr fixed mortgage. If you make the money go 15. The money you’ll save in interest alone. Plus it’s a market and you just need to know what’s hot and what’s coming.

      2. If your not in a rush to get out,.for sale by owner typically cuts the overall buyers commission cost to 2.5 to 3%. Vs full service brokerage of 5 to 6%.
        The only downside is the mean time for sale increases by around 30 days.

  25. I know people who work in the industry and they tell me almost all home buyers are married couples, and the wife is the real decision maker in the process. The man is just along for the ride, as the woman cries on tour about all the homes they can’t afford.

  26. The natives in western countries buy-to-rent to make some easy money and thus inflate the bubble. Then the government imports immigrants to fill the rented houses and to stop the bubble from bursting. The the natives cry: Stop the immigration – they are taking our jobs and fucking our women!

  27. One of the many falsities of the “Life Script” is the notion that things like homeownership and marriage somehow equal maturity. One of my friends is stuck in an underwater mortgage, and he and his wife recently announced the end of their relationship on Facebook; thankfully she’s Australian, she has no intention of using the monolith that is the Western justice system to take him to the cleaners. Things like plumbing or roofing issues alone can cost tens of thousands of dollars.

    1. “One of the many falsities of the “Life Script” is the notion that things like homeownership and marriage somehow equal maturity.”
      This cannot be overstated.
      Situations like marriage and homeownership serve to reveal, rather than define, maturity.
      My grandfather said that marriage was the ‘greatest character-building experience’ a man could have. I imagine that homeownership probably ranks up there too (I currently rent).

  28. My mother built a house in Czech and then moved to Germany. My grandmother took care of that house for some 30 years. My mother does not want it anymore and I refuse to take it out of guilt. My granny worked her ass off on that, alone, without family, without a man. It breaks my fucking heart.
    Mommy always wanted to live with me in a house until we grow old. Stupid bitch. I hate the idea of settling down. Maybe because of that, maybe because I am a man. Who knows. Who cares. I love the idea of being able to switch locations overnight, theoretically.
    That is also why I got rid of most of my stuff. I used to love my stuff, as it was the only thing I had as a substitute for my sick mother’s non-existent love. These days, I see it as the dude in American Beauty said it: It is just stuff.
    No more sentimental attachment to stuff. Will I lose it? So what, I can buy new stuff. Did I have good memories with it? So what, it is in the past. Stuff does not reciprocate your love. It is just a bunch of unimportant bullshit.
    Police took away my computers and all my projects and photographs. I raged for a day or two and now I kinda refuse to be angry about it. I will take freedom over the slavery that comes from fearing for my stuff. My stuff is not a hostage.

    1. Should have left the kids alone, Senior Arrow! Now you’re having to use your library computers to get on ROK

        1. I meant Senor (Spanish) not senior citizen. I got my answer as to why your computers were confiscated by the police.

        1. I joke but this really happened to someone. The police took his computer, got him fired from his job and ruined his life.

      1. My former boss accused me of having deleted and stolen his stupid database. The ironic thing is that the police did not even care to verify that the crime actually happened. Now the police spends 2-3 weeks of work to backup all my terabytes of data. I swear, if there was no law, I would murder him for his cowardice, but as it is, I prefer to just not think of it.

        1. Careful what you say online as it can be used against you. You’re not gonna get done for murder but if the case gets before a jury then it’s just another file in your case that’ll make you look bad.

      1. Thanks, but I you may have misinterpreted the sentence due to poor phrasing. What I meant to say was: I would not want to live in that house out of guilt. I do not want to let them put that obligation on me.
        Otherwise, I tend to agree. Thing is, I do like to act on guilt if I really think it is justified. But being guilt-tripped by a mentally ill bitch like my mother, I too tend to prefer to oversteps some lines instead of buckling.

        1. Let bygones be bygones and start fresh mate! Old ways don’t open new doors.

        2. If it does more harm than good then it is not worth it. It’s like running with a backpack, the weight might help with building the leg muscle tone but if you need to go fast, one must drop the weight to achieve his objective more easily.
          On the other hand,maybe you cannot let go because it’s part of your persona. I’ve got thoughts which keep me up at night and I should let it go but that reminder helps me remember where I’ve been,

        3. Yeah, I do understand. I am a fatherless motherfucker, too, so there is a big rebel in me who just wants to shout ‘Fuck you!’ when any official monkey thinks he can have his way with me.
          In the long run, I may want to let go of it. Probably once I bring up the courage to direct the anger at my dad. Who knows.
          I think I know what you mean about the persona. It really feels like I would not even be myself if I actually lost it. Then again, maybe it is not necessary. Maybe I just need to integrate it better, so that I can use it more purposefully.

        4. Damn that’s yo moms yo!
          Ha ha, if the house is in your name, sell it and invest the money.

    2. only a man without nothing inside needs his stuff…I reckon you’ve so much molten anger in you that there’s not much room for bullshit.

      1. A man without nothing inside, how prosaic.
        Yeah, there is a lot of anger. But also compassion. They are often in conflict, it is weird. On one hand, I am rageful, on the other hand I understand that every person who hurts me does have their reasons. I do not believe in evil on a theological or moral level, but I will acknowledge that for some shit that happens to you, there just seems to be no better word.

        1. Prosaic, that’s the bread and butter of our great world. You know it. You see it everyday, but, one day my son, guess what, you’ll wake up and you’ll realize you’re just the same. But for now, your anger keeps you safe and immune from this awful fact of life, just like I was at your age, but you’ll mature, sort yourself out and mellow, find peace of mind and start worrying about what nights you put the bins out on.
          For now, you’re pure, your anger is almost divine, enjoy the energy it gives you, it burns you to the core and makes you a man to be reckoned with, no bullshit, no half-measures…but you’ll learn to go gently into that good night that awaits us all when we hitch the women who becomes the wife, who becomes the bitch, that we end up leaving, but hey, that’s the vicious cycle of life.

        2. Damn, I love those lines. Like talking to the grandpa I never had. Thank you.
          I was called prosaic today. Thought I would pass the favor. Besides, your prose is not empty bullshit, so I like it.

        3. A certain type of anger is cathartic and vital . I’m glad, despite the bullshit I had around your age to have had this type of anger running through my veins. I’ve never entirely lost it. Obviously, I don’t often display it openly, but, internally, its energies have always kept me good throughout my life. It’s the same energy that’s been a part of my integrity, that’s to me a central part of a man’s masculinity. So, never loss it , let it be, and people will respect you.

    3. “My mother built a house in Czech and then moved to Germany. My grandmother took care of that house for some 30 years. My mother does not want it anymore”
      I’m sure the house will be appropriated by the government and given to some ISIS refugees.

      1. Actually, my ma and granny rented it out to some people who promised to buy it eventually, for a ridiculously low rate. The renters renovated the whole house by now, but have not bought it. I am next to certain that, by now, there is some kind of law that would prohibit my family from kicking them out.
        Luckily, it is none of my business.

  29. Yeah, yeah….those poor people “shackled” to their “deprecated” houses in California…..made 100s of thousands on the market rise recently.. Idiot, don’t talk about what you know nothing about…If you’re stupid about buying and selling choices, stay a renter, there’s no fix for stupid.

    1. I watched people “buy” 500k houses who should have never even qualified for a mortgage in ’05-’07. Market crashed, I came in and mortgaged a property in 2009 for 122k. Just closed on the sale last week for 208k. The housing market has become nothing more than a speculators game.

  30. This depends on location, location, location. If you live in high rent, high home cost area, you’re better off buying into it. This locks in your monthly costs. Otherwise, you’re in the mercy of your landlord who will easily increase rent. Over 10 years, you’re sitting pretty while the renters will likely move or deal with ever increasing rental costs. The caveats still remain true. Don’t sell for at least 5 years.

  31. Home ownership is no longer valued or rewarded in this day of ZIRP (Zero Interest Rate Policy) and financial liquidity. Back in the 60s, paying off your home meant something, real freedom, and it was a goal most people set for themselves. These days, with the prime interest rate at 3.25% the difference between owning or mortgaging a home is minimal. And therefore the difference between owning and renting is minimal.
    This pisses me off, because I set up an aggressive plan to have my housing costs paid off in my 30s, and while once I achieve that, I will certainly be much freer financially, with only a property tax bill, maintenance, and utilities to pay, I feel most of my efforts were wasted, and if I had diverted my savings toward another area, I would have been happier and better rewarded.
    Savers, investors, and hard workers are punished; not rewarded, in this economy, and you can now add homeowners to the list. Renters (not that there’s anything inherently wrong in renting–it is simply more of a short time horizon outlook), spenders, and the underperforming are rewarded. I am close to achieving financial independence, so I will continue along that path; however, if I were starting out from scratch, renting is definitely the way to go, and I would enjoy the freedom and flexibility of location it provides.

    1. It is incorrect to look at homeownership as merely interest rates. Rents are increasing at higher than inflation due to low homeownership and lack of housing construction. This squeezes out the renters. Housing prices have also increased in prices due to lower interest rates. If you’re already a homeowner, this helps me because I refinanced to 3.25% from 6.5%. I pay less in mortgage interest and my housing costs relative to my income has decreased. So where is my money going, other places that are getting more expensive like health care insurance, taxes (income, property, sales). So if you’re a renter, you’re squeezed down even worse.
      “the difference between owning and renting is minimal”
      No, the difference is paying $1200 monthly mortgage and property tax for 30 years for a 3 bedroom house in a good area versus paying $1600 monthly rent that’s increasing 5 to 8% every year for a 2 bedroom apartment in a worse area.
      It seems like you did the right thing, but you regret it.

      1. I would say that rents are increasing at higher than inflation (meaning CPI) due to money printing (which actually *is* inflation) and artificially lowered interest rates. Low homeownership? I think we are still subsidizing too many people to own homes. Lack of housing construction? There is still too much supply of lots and new homes in inventory.

        1. That’s insurgent talk. You are supposed to think “prices are going up!” with a big retarded grin on your face like the rest of the fucktard sheep out there and not know about all this money printing and inflation stuff. Shame on you! Don’t you know that inflation is magic?

        2. If you know it is happening, then why are you asking people to deal with high rents. Low mortgage rates means the homeowner is getting subsidized rents plus subsidized income taxes too. A double benefit. So the renter gets shafted, but the homeowner gets awarded.

        3. The homeowner gets rewarded until the house price bubble bursts again. Sometimes this is temporary, other times, permanent.

        4. Rents are increasing because of the decrease of desirable and safe areas to live from the influx of criminals and illegals. It’s the dismal tide. No escape. Obama is bringing section 8 to any and all neighborhoods in the country along with the so called refugees.

  32. You have to be a real ninja on this renting thing.
    For example, for $400 a month I have a room I rent in a house that overlooks the water. It’s on the end of a 40 acre property. The owner is some old guy I hardly ever see who bought the place in the 70s. $400 a month, all included, even wireless internet.
    My advice is for people to look for deals like this. My previous place was an oddball studio that had…. an attached 2 car garage? Yes it did! And for the year I was there, I restored a car of mine, catching up on 8 years worth of work I needed to do (mainly repairing of the frame and rebuilding the suspension). The landlady wanted to renovate the entire house (it was the bottom floor of a house) so I could not renew. That place was in the middle of town with everything walking distance and roughly 700 a month.
    My point is this: DO NOT just go an get a “real apartment” where you are going to get fleeced just as you would if you had a mortgage. The :”system” is all about fleecing everybody. So the “normal” way is of that system and you will be fleeced.
    Go out and be smart about this and look for those little nooks and crannies of sweet deals and minor compromises. When my marriage fell apart I had a place in Seattle for 425 a month, a room in a house (easily found via Craigslist) and it had roomates who were politically on board too. During the 18 months I was there, I paid off nearly 10 grand in credit card debt from my failed marriage and still ate and drank well. Then having paid off the debt went and found an apartment for 700 a month with mountain views and covered parking.
    Some places I lived had leases, more often other places I did not.
    See that’s the rub: you can’t be an autist on this, you can’t be afraid to feel people out, talk to people, read between the lines, etc. You have to be able to weed out drama queens and nutjobs, be able to read them even at a distance and look around and see the signs.
    I’m at the point where I networked it enough that I can get a new place in a week if I wanted and via people I already know. I have moved 11 times in the last 8 years, and I have 2 cars and roughly a “trucks worth” of tools and equipment. I don’t need to be living out of a bag of clothes and a laptop like those millenials who pride themselves on how much crap they own in Second Life but don’t have more than 3 pairs of pants and not even one screwdriver or hammer or even a frying pan, nor do I have a house full of needless junk or “5 of everything” like a packrat babyboomer.
    Everything that is important to me is either self-mobile or will fit in my pickup truck. Again, you do not need to be Mr. Ownsnothing, but you can’t take on furniture (I have only one desk, nothing else) and you have to learn not to become a collection point for “shit you don’t need”.

    1. Local government is quickly moving to ban these types of living arrangements. They harass property owners and threaten them with massive fines and code violations citing obscure and vague zoning regs.

  33. My only issue with this article has to do with the title. Often times these articles are written by younger people who don’t really have perspective or a couple decades experience but they’re speaking to people who’s situation is vastly different.
    “Reasons to be a life long renter” written by someone that isn’t established in their career or has any stability doesn’t make sense. I’m sure Chad didn’t mean to be preachy so I’m not holding it against him. For someone in his position he may spot on.
    I rented for around 10 years. Renting sucks. I own my house, I own a hangar at an airport and I own the plane I have in it. I’m not rich and had to work hard for what I have but not having to answer to some guy while paying for his retirement (rental property) sits a lot better to me. Whatever premium I have to pay for that I consider a luxury that’s worth whatever it costs.
    I too watched housing costs fluctuate wildly but I never cared because I never relied on the value of my house to live on. I bought it, I paid for it and what it’s worth doesn’t matter because I’m not going anywhere.
    I’ve never seen “what might happen” as a reason to sit idle on the sidelines. I bought, I did what it took to hold on to what I have and attain more.

    1. If you get decent deal on a rent controlled apartment in a city like new york, you’ll never give it up until you die. The amount you’d pay on HOA fees and real estate taxes for a condo of similar size isn’t that different from paying rent. After 10 years, your rent is way under market rate.

      1. Rent controlled apartments are no longer a thing. That is unless you are currently living in one and the building just doesn’t go condo to kick you out.

      2. Good point. I’d never live in a place with an HOA though. I’m happy to commute to stay out of the city. I’m on the West Coast though.

    2. “Reasons to be a life long renter”
      Written by someone who hasn’t lived long enough to use the term “life long”.

  34. I’m an architect and I do multifamily complexes and a lot of dense, urban residential buildings, so I’m quite in tune with the market. My industry is exploding right now, a lot of people are renting by choice because either they like the urban Life style, apartment living is fairly affordable, and you get a LOT with it. Even many gen x’ers are living in dense condos or apartments. It’s really nice as a young guy to be able to move to different areas at my will. Just moved to uptown Dallas, there are hard 9’s everywhere. And many times I see roosh’s writings coming true before my eyes. Its wonderful to feel like you understand society in a deeper way than most because you’ve been informed of it.

  35. I was of this mindset for many years, agree with the above points, and enjoyed my time as a renter. I don’t regret it all. But let me point out some bad points to renting and good for owning that would be appealing to someone that is on the fence and doesn’t care about tax write-offs or building equity.
    1. Your mortgage payment stays the same with a fixed rate mortgage whereas your rent payment can, and many times does, increase annually. Even if property taxes don’t increase and the landlord is no longer paying a mortgage
    2. Your landlord and you may have different lifestyles. If your landlord was a type that just liked to sit around and drink, and you are active, workout and like to hunt, shoot and reload your own ammo, a rift can begin to develop, even if you’ve known each other for years. If you march to the beat of a different drummer, it might be better for you to be the rule-maker.
    3. Your lease can be non-renewed at any time. Picture this, you’ve been in your place a few years, rent is reasonable and not increasing, you like the place, pay on time every month, take care of the place and plan to stay awhile. Then when you hand your landlord the August rent check you get the bombshell laid on you that you need to be out by the end of the year. Not planning on looking for other housing? Now you are.

    1. Had number 3 happen to me after a LL promised to not try to sell the place while I was living there. I even had him put this term into the lease and he still sold it in violation of the lease. His response was “well sue me”. I did. I won. After hassle and filing fees I netted probably around $1,000. It was just enough to cover the movers.
      Both renting and owning are hassles each with their own unique problems. Choose to do whatever fits your lifestyle.

      1. One thousand bux? It would have cost more in time alone to bother going through with it. But I guess a victory is still sweet. Good stuff!

        1. Yeah it was a pain. I had to go through the motions of filing a complaint, filing a response to a motion to dismiss, then finally negotiating with his insurance company. Sometimes though you need to persist in order to prove your point. Plus since I had already spent the grand on movers I used it to cover a vacation. Bonus.

  36. Given the economy of today, I prefer the flexibility in renting. Had I bought something after the 2008 crash, which I contemplated, I would have been totally screwed. My job moved from the city center to the way out suburbs around 2010 because the boss wanted cheaper rent. Had I banked on it being in the same location I would have to endure a 1+ hour commute each way. Because I rented I was able to just move when my lease as up and only had to do the commute for a few months.

  37. Read, “The Housing Trap” for more well thought out critiques of home ownership.
    Sometimes it is a win, sometimes it isn’t. Do the math and see which it’s right for you.

  38. I get the idea of being flexible with location, it has a place, But I can divest property faster than an apartment contract can be cancelled, without losing my ass in most cases if I have been there for 2 years or more.
    Owning property…land, house or condo etc.. if your smart and don’t get caught up in having the best of everything or the most premium address, will build equity and provide self managed rent control.
    As the article mentions, a thirty year mortgage is a joke, real ownership will take years. But every payment is cash in your pocket.
    With rates under 4%, it’s an excellent savings tool that you can sleep in. If you live in a costal city, appreciation is upwards of 6%. That’s leveraged capital, meaning all the value of the house increases, while the portion that interest is paid on shrinks every month. At somepoint you can decide to own, have no rent and hopefully get of the work treadmill.

  39. I own 3 properties. The one I rent out for 1600, the other one for 1900 and the house I live in has two roommates living with me, who pay me 850 per month combined. That’s 4350 dollars that strangers are putting into my pocket every single month, and I do nothing, but nothing, for it. 4350 dollars per month is 52,200 dollars per year. Over 30 years of renting out my places, that will be 1,566,000 dollars, which strangers will have put into my pocket by the time I retire, and that’s merely in today’s dollars (not even corrected for inflation). In addition, by that time, the houses will be mine outright, so all rent will go straight into my pockets.
    Corrected with a conservative 2% inflation per year, the house that is now renting for 1600 per month will rent for 2898 dollars per month in 30 years from now. The one that’s renting for 1900 per month will rent for 3441 dollars per month. The total amount of rent that I will collect, corrected for inflation, if I do nothing and leave everything the same will be in excess of 2.5 million, and that’s in only the next 30 years time. What are you talking about, “renting is smart”? You wanna stay mobile? I am mobile, my houses are rented out and the house I live in has roommates, I can go wherever I want, and my houses will be fine. You don’t know the first thing about real estate.
    Sorry man, but I think ROK could use a few writers with a little life experience; writers who use logic instead of emotion.

    1. Good point Barwin, that’s why I plan to do, let suckers pay for my mortgage and hopefully pocket a bit of spare change from my job. Where I live in London, you would be a madman to buy a house and pay for it from your own pocket. And here’s another trick popular with London landlords: split some of the rooms and make more of them. A double can be made into two smaller ones and relatively easy with some plasterboard and a thing brick wall.
      A small room would get you £450-£550 a month which works out to £900 (average for the two rooms) whereas a double room costs around £6-700. Worth it.
      I will try to get my folks to get a mortgage for me and rent it out to pay for it. They paid their own mortgage and and there is no way I’ll be approved one from the bank.
      When the house is half paid I would probably save enough to pay up to 75% of it and then have an easy ride for the rest of my life.

    2. The author should have covered investments and whatnot. I own 2 large, expensive flats and live pretty low rent, personally don’t need anything more than a prison cell, that’s just me, but I like partying, drugs, good food now and again, we all have priorities. When my (divorced)parents die, which i’m not counting on i’ll have another 2. At some point people don’t really need more money or property. I could buy another 2 right now, but I can’t even think of ways to spend the extra income, would rather focus on my business and family to be honest so I have something to occupy my time.
      The author really should have specified this advice was for young guys who will travel or haven’t found themselves yet, presumably with a small or fixed income from a 9-5, guys who are looking at getting into a lot of debt for a single small property they will probably be living in, god forbid with a woman. But yeah can totally see where you are coming from, and the author is being way too absolute, maybe is lacking some experience. That said, a lot of people would say screw the 2.5 Million, especially If they can’t have it there right now, stacked. No point boasting about finances, if you aren’t making that money hand over fist. Fuck 30 years, life is now. Also there are principles, round here rents and prices are high because people can get big mortgages and buy to rent, at some point I just think fuck the usurers and the greed, propping up the Ponzi scheme and making life harder for the working man etc. that’s just not me.

      1. I disagree about the 2.5 million. If you ask any person in the world: “I’d like to give you 2.5 million right now.”, everybody would say yes. If you ask any person in the world: “I’d like to give you 2.5 million but I’m going to spread it out over 30 years.”, everybody would still say yes. I agree that there’s no point in boasting about money if you’re not making lots of money fast, but I wasn’t boasting, I was just pointing out that the writer is pretty ignorant. I also agree that the image of a wealthy person in the U.S. is a stereotype of the billionaire who’s making it rain in the club after coming out of his private jet in his expensive suit, but that’s just an illusion, mostly created by Hollywood and by music videos where rappers who are relatively low wealth hire a model agency and a ferrari for less than 10 grand, make a video and now the world thinks they have hundreds of millions.
        I live in Canada, and according to Statistics Canada, the vast majority of millionaires are simply people who are smart with their money and who live below their means, like you say you do, and like me, just investing wisely, having some rental properties… Anyway, but you’re totally right about the usurers and the Ponzi schemes by the banks. I also don’t want to support their interest-charging-game. That’s why I live completely debt-free, and I accumulate gold bullion and properties. With the exception of mortgages. I don’t mind those as much. They are debt too, but they’re not consumer debt because properties are leveraged against them. If you can no longer pay the mortgage, just sell the property and you’re done.

  40. Better yet… Buy a slightly used, A class, 40′ long RV.
    Mobility.
    No need to pack when moving or going for road trip vacation.
    No landlord.
    No property tax.
    No rent (although dump fee for sewage)
    Can be sold.

    1. You do have annual registration fee. In California, you pay a car tax and you need to smog it every 2 years.

  41. Women need houses. In a divorce she is getting it and he has to pay for it. That is what is behind the idea that the “American Dream” is to own a home.

  42. Maybe the extreme communists were right on this point. No private property means you owe nobody anything. It’s your place until you die, then it goes to the next deserving citizen. I’d have not problem with this. At the moment in free market economies it’s worse in that you pay for something you’ll never own until 60. Who cares about owing anything, when you only need a place to live.

  43. I think that it depends on where you live, just to apply to a rental here you have to pay a fee that is non refundable. I am 32 and single. I have bought an apartment I could afford in 2009 for 170,000.00. Not including the renovations I did to mine, they are selling for a little over 200,000.00 currently. I am still paying less to my mortgage and maintenance fee monthly than people that are renting out the same size unit. If I loose my job for some reason I can sell that quickly( again for the area I live in, and reap the difference in appreciation) and move on. There’s really not to many men that I meet that own, always kind of wondered, but maybe it is for reasons that this article outlined, which do make sense. On the filp side I can fix my own things no problem, but everything is somewhat new from 2009. You should see the women’s faces that I have brought home once they figure out I own my place. It’s almost like they don’t believe me for some reason.

    1. Don’t let them believe you. They shouldn’t know you own your own place. Then her decision to be with you is not driven by $$$.

      1. Yes J. Hue you are right, I do not try to persuade them. I don’t really even bring it up to them because it’s really none for their business. If they do ask I will give them the answer. If they don’t believe me I leave it at that. Usually once they get to my place that is one of the first questions out of their mouths unfortunately. I even had one women say, ” You’re just saying that to try to impress me” after she was the one that asked about it in the first place. Yeah, she wasn’t there too long after. Bitche$

        1. Never give them a straight answer. You take the mystery out of it. She actually enjoys finding things out about you that didn’t come directly from you. She’ll probe on and on and on. The mysterious you are, the more she wonders and thinks about YOU. If you tell her everything she asks, the game would be over with you. She’ll next you.

  44. In this society, you don’t own anything. The bank does. All the blah blah blah is just that. Pure bullshit.

  45. The house is for your wife and keeping up with the Jones’s, even your kids don’t even benefit that much in the long run. Meanwhile you are being outbred and outmanoeuvred by Dude 2 who has his wife in a burka, living 3 generations and 10 people to a house.
    The top rated comment in the thread is a dude who owns his business and has a wife and kids, props for that, it is a noble goal, but he’s a member of a country club and has 2 timeshares?? just strikes me as a bit lame and the opposite of virility. The West was at it’s height when Whites were living more like dude 2.
    There is an element of feminized softness about the White picket fence. That’s the American WOMANs dream. Guys should just always be doing things, Manly things, being productive, being strong, learning/teaching, producing, creating art, rearing a virile next generation, community leadership etc. Sadly that society is disappearing.
    That said, that is a preferable situation to bleeding money on rent. Renting is a viable option, but you have to be sensible about where, the reasons and what circumstances to do it. The right place, price and reasons. Travelling or experiencing the Roosh lifestyle as a single man is one good reason. I own 2 large expensive flats, and rent a small studio for myself. Would rather have the cash than a big place to live personally. Worth looking at owning only as an income generating investent. Buying to rent props up the banking Ponzi schemes, inflates rents and prices, and hurts the working man, so bear that in mind if you have morals/a soul.

    1. Except for the slight contradiction at the end, this is a top comment and should be pinned.

  46. I was lucky enough to inherit a house with no debt on it. If that didn’t happen, I would have continued renting (maybe for the rest of my life). I am very happy about not making banking thieves richer.

  47. This article saved my life.
    When I’m rich, I will make a hefty donation to this site as well as to Mr. Chad Hargrove.

  48. Depends, if you can get a beta male and his overworked ‘liberated’ wife to pay a high rent then you can travel the world while they pay you.
    But he is right that the whole ‘American Dream’ of home ownership is a blue pill concept. Why do you think the government gives you a mortgage interest tax break? The government wants you a slave to the bank, your job and them.

  49. I’ve never owned, but it seems like it’s the mortgage that makes it not ideal. No one has ever given me a satisfactory explanation as to why mortgages are a good thing. If one can own outright, though, with no debt, it seems the extra responsibility could be worth it.

  50. So I read pretty far back, I didn’t see anyone mention the idea of owning land and building on it? Anyone have experience with this, is it just flat out a bad idea?
    I, personally, don’t want to be a life long renter, but I also never want to have a mortgage. I figured the best compromise would be to purchase outright an acre or 2 of good land in a good location and have a small one story – with a basement – built on the land. If I buy smart and find good contractors maybe it costs me what? 100k? 150k? The house will be built to last and to be added to over time, if needed.
    I could then use what I have built as my base home while I travel, if I pick a really smart location and build it really well I can rent it out as a vacation spot for people looking to go into the “country” while I snorkel in Costa Rica.
    I would have to do much more research, but I am curious as to your thoughts.

  51. It depends on a lot. With my suburban homestead lifestyle, I need permanence for my fruit trees, chickens and garden. So I could never be a renter. I also own rental property-one small townhome-and bad tenants can be a headache unless you know how to find good tenants.Lots of people simply do not know how to live in a home.
    I recommend the Mormon church for finding good tenants.
    I am not a Mormon, but I when a tenant moves out, I always ask them if they can recommend me someone from their church. I offer a word of mouth recommendation discount. I used to go to more public agencies, but after having the interior destroyed in my townhome several times, I quit putting out ads or going to rental agencies. I now look for tenants among LDS folk.
    LDS folks are less likely to live like cockroaches and scum. Take care of stuff much better than average.A couple of times when my tenants could not pay because of some medical bills, I noticed that the LDS church even cut a check for them. (But I will say that the Mormons are also more likely to pay their rent.
    I do not agree with their theology, but the LDS sure does teach a power code of ethics that make Mormons higher caliber folks than most.
    If you are an unwilling landlord like myself because you had a hard time sellng your property, I recommend renting to Mormons.

  52. Nothing is stable or secure today, so not being location dependent is important. Seriously. 70 years ago buying a house was the thing to do, but until we remove the socialists from the government we will be at there whim. A nice neighborhood with appreciating property values can turn to shit overnight when a low income housing project is mandated. If one takes a look at Germany, their native born citizenry are being forced to get out of their own homes for ISIS refugees. That shit could easily come to the USA. Let’s factor in Agenda 21, that in it of itself is a whole other concern.
    No. There is simply too much ugly shit going on where individual freedoms and property rights are being ignored, world wide. Nobody knows what’s looming on the horizon and it can’t be good. This means being flexible geographically.

    1. >A nice neighborhood with appreciating property values can turn to shit overnight when a low income housing project is mandated.
      That’s why you need to buy property in “blue” voting districts.
      Pay attention to where these projects and refugee camps get set up; they’re being dropped down in conservative voting areas.
      The increase in crime and the drop in property values drives out white, conservative voters and turns areas into “party of Gibs” tickets in very short order.
      Liberals are literally using the Dindu Tribes as weapons for political power.

  53. Rent is dead money, lost forever to you. You never get rent back, therefore that wealth is lost to you and your kids, and transferred to another family. Mortgage payments you , or your kids, always get back, in the end, when you sell the house. That wealth, the product of your labours, remains in your family, end enriches your kids or grandkids. Its a no brainer. why woudl you want to give your wealth away to a stranger any more than you have to?

    1. “why woudl you want to give your wealth away to a stranger any more than you have to?”
      Which is exactly why I paid off the mortgage as fast as I could. free money to a bank makes no sense at all if it can be prevented. I saved over 100K in interest.

      1. Bank Interest, and the Fractional Reserve Banking Scam, the most successful scam in history, having stolen the wealth of the people for 100 years, to the tune of about at least $600 trillion

        1. Yet at the same time, people are wealthier than they have been at any point in history… (but are the trade offs worth it)

    2. What’s the difference between paying rent to some landlord or interest to the banks? At least the landlord doesn’t reach into my pocket for a bailout because of his stupid decisions.

      1. Because when you pay rent to the landlord you are buying him a house. When you pay interest to the bank you are buying yourself a house. In the first instance you get nothing in the longer term, in the second you acquire a stake in a valuable, sellable asset and potentially get a return back.

        1. If I’m renting then I have plenty of extra cash each year to plow into a much more diverse and stable array of assets that can be as mobile and as liquid as I want. This is in place of home equity (which may or may not appear for many homeowners) and without the burden of annual property taxes to the government and the constant maintenance of a house.

      2. Someone is always getting a house at the end, either the buyer or the bank. As a renter, it’s never you. You get nothing… just keep paying.

        1. “You get nothing.”
          No, you get a roof over your head.
          You are renting that roof and you naturally need to pay a landlord for this service. How is this throwing money down the drain? Throwing money away is paying for a service and obtaining nothing in exchange

        2. Re-read and note the key word “end”.
          You get a roof over your head either way but when renting, you get nothing in the “end”.
          The “end” could be any time by the way, but let’s go with the end of a contract, amount of money paid or duration of time for ease of definition.

  54. It should be specified that, Renting is the best option for where you personally reside at any given time, especially if you are a single man, or couple. If you own a place, it should be to rent. Unless you are filthy rich, with a massive income from somewhere, owned properties(and assets in general) should be for generating income. Not for keeping up with jones’ and paying out of pocket from a 9-5, wage slave, cubicle job.

  55. Agreed. I rent here in the UK…city center for obvious reasons of course. The Brits are obsessed with owning property…unlike others in continental Europe. Think the cultural attitude goes back to feudal land barons, especially as so many are ‘buying to rent’.

  56. I bought my house in 2000, and re-fi’d twice, the second time in August of 2003. By March of 2010, I had the note paid off in full. A mortgage does not have to be stretched out over 30 years if there is a way to pay it off sooner. Now all I worry about is property tax and insurance.

  57. Renting also doesn’t typically include a lot of buying and exit closing costs while buying/selling will typically take 10-12% in total. Many people underestimate the value in moving flexibility and also the random expensive repair costs of owning.
    I currently own – two dogs, wife, and a cheap mortgage and my prior 3 homes are all rentals currently. I had planned on renting but got a great deal when I moved for a new job earlier this year and renting was around $500/month more than owning or around $700/month after adjusting for taxes. Plus work paid for closing costs and to move me.

  58. Lack of flexibility, lack of options, beholden to the money-changers. And you never really “own” your home do you? It’s not like property taxes stop once the mortgage is paid off. Why would I tie up the vast majority of my financial wealth in one highly illiquid asset? Not buying a home is as good an idea as not getting married these days.

  59. I do not own a house, I even do not want to have one. However, I have my own apartment in a building with 11 units that I own, that’s an investment paid by the other tenants and I have my place “for free”.

  60. This article is one of the worst ROK pieces in a while. “Be a life-long renter”, what utter shit advice. The biggest/most obvious reason to opt for ownership instead of renting is that owners actually “have” something. Renters have nothing at the end of the day.
    Also, in case you haven’t noticed, rents have been going up across the board. Why pay $900-$1500 a month to have nothing? That’s the definition of flushing money down the drain. With a house, any money you put into it “stays” there, you don’t really “lose” anything. When you make payments on a house, or even just put in money for improvements, that money doesn’t really go anywhere. It’s still under your control, just not in a “liquid” form.
    As a final note, with the economy being what it is, it’s not hard to pick up a cheap foreclosure in the $30-$70k range. Obviously some of these will need some work/repairs, but you can find 3 bed/2 baths at quite affordable prices and 1 bed/1 bath at even cheaper prices.
    Ask me how I know…. I recently snatched up an ugly house in the $30k range using some of my savings. Guess what my monthly payment comes out to (property tax)?? A whopping $40 a month. Thanks to being a “homeowner”, I will now be able to pocket that additional $900-$1500 to save, invest, use for travel, or whatever else I want.
    Show me a renter that only needs to pay $40/month, you won’t find one.
    Renting = poverty
    Ownership = wealth
    EDIT: This is written from an American / United States perspective, I’m not sure how the housing situation is in other countries.

    1. A mortgage is just renting money from the bank, and under far fewer rights than a tenant in an apartment complex has.

      1. I beg to differ. While I don’t have a mortgage myself, I know some people who defaulted on their loans years ago and are still in their houses.
        The foreclosure process can be rather slow depending on what location you are in. The most extreme example I know of is a guy who defaulted on his loan in 2006 and is still in his house. A little knowledge of court procedure goes a LONG way for stalling and delaying the whole thing.
        Now, compare a person who is foreclosed on with a person who misses a rent payment. The first person may be able to squeeze a few years of “free” living out of his situation, the second person is out on the street in 1-2 months flat.

    2. While my friends deal with mortgages that are still way underwater seven years after the financial crisis (bleeding them dry) I rent and have more money in my savings and retirement accounts than they could dream of. If they lose their jobs they’re ruined. If I lose mine I’ll take a year off and not break a sweat. Buying can be a good investment, but it’s not for everyone. It’s like saying everyone should go to college, no exceptions.

      1. That’s odd, most of the renters I know are flat broke or have no savings. The average person would save more money owning as opposed to renting, that’s all I’m saying.
        A common assumption in the manosphere is that “home ownership” AUTOMATICALLY means a $300-$500k McMansion type house. In reality most people fall under the $100-$300k category.
        Math doesn’t lie, some cheaper houses can be had for as little as $500/month. Compare that to $900-$1500 for a decent apartment and it’s a no-brainer.
        As an added benefit, even if SHTF, you generally have a few years until the bank/lawyers get around to you. Even more time if you are educated in the applicable laws. On the other hand, you miss a “rent” payment and you’ll be out on your ass in 1-2 months.

        1. People who are piss poor with their finances will always be broke, renting or buying. Owning a home isn’t always a better option, that’s all I’m saying. I’m surprised at the militant objections to that premise in the comments section.

  61. Owning at least one house/appartment in decent location (and conservative state) should be a must for every man.
    Then you can decide to live in or rent.

  62. I have owned 4 homes since i was 26 yr old. I am 49 now and have had my current home for 12 years. I made money on the homes I owned before. This last home, I owe what I paid for it 12 years ago. I won’t buy another home. I’m stuck. I agree with all of these popints!

  63. This is only good advice for a small sliver of the population. Blanket advice for a nuanced topic. Not good .

  64. I’ve found the best compromise to be a leasehold (NOT tenancy) agreement. This way you can negotiate the contract terms with your landlord so that you get the right balance between security of tenure vs freedom to up sticks and move if you so choose while in return the landlord gets the right balance of security of income (i.e. he knows he will be guaranteed rent payments from you for x years before he needs to start worrying about gaps between tenants) vs freedom to replace you with a more profitable tenant should the opportunity arise. My current leasehold agreement is 3 years with automatic renewal unless either party wished to terminate the agreement, which would require 3 months’ notice. I also negotiated wide freedoms to modify the building to meet my requirements (within reason – drilling a hole to hang a picture is fine; knocking that wall through to create a large room from 2 small rooms isn’t) in return for responsibility to make minor repairs and maintenance myself. I actually see the ‘responsibility’ part as a freedom in itself too – who the hell wants to have to wait weeks if not months for the landlord to get around to sending one of his guys round to fix a leaking tap when 90% of the time you can do it yourself in 15 minutes with about £1 worth of parts (a couple of washers and maybe some PTFE tape)?

  65. You got several things mixed up. Rents are going through the ROOF since no one can afford a home these days and banks are a bunch of tight asses. 2. You do not need to own a big home and your future woman / family should not enter into the decision to own one or not own one either. Beware though many a woman will try to hook up with you if you do own your own chunk of real estate. You own a home to call home and ride the real estate wave as dirt always appreciates. Its just people got carried away with home prices, flipping deals like it was no tomorrow and hence blew a huge bubble in the tulip, I mean housing market. It might take a while but home prices will edge back up over time owning your own home does not mean you cannot rent it out if your situation changes. Many fortunes have been made in real estate.

  66. Now is a pretty good time to invest in the US. Usually when everyone else tells you its a bad idea, its a good idea. As Buffett says, be fearful when others are greedy, and be greedy when others are fearful.

  67. I would not even consider a house unless I was married, financially secure and in a country where I could afford to buy or build one without involving a mortgage death pact.
    Aside from that yeah renting is much better

  68. Good article.
    I am beginning to think there is a need for housing that fall somewhere between modern and micro. The appeal of micro housing is financial and minimalistic. I would much rather spend the money on land than a house. Yet I want to keep my housing cost low as possible.
    We have seen a few similar ideas with container housing, modular building, trailer homes (as seen in article) and modern micro housing in progressive places like amsterdam…
    I think if there was a new stream of thought bred into the housing market that afforded young people / families with houses under 100k that still allowed you to live comfortably.. the young generations would eat it up.
    does anyone agree or have links to relevant information?

  69. Not everyone wants to or should be a lifelong nomad. Many humans prefer to be grounded. Many also prefer to actually have some wealth. Why pay rent every month to someone else, when you can pay mortgage every month and eventually own a house?

  70. Losers who cant buy will find million excuses to rent.Eternal story.
    Like losers who cant get women will find excuses why going to a third world shithole to have sex is “neomasculinity” lol

  71. This is a poorly written article that does not make its case. The most important point to consider in deciding between renting vs. buying is financial.
    You can find good information and analysis on that on the Internet. I’ll skip to the conclusion that most good financial advisers will bring you to. It only makes sense financially to buy a house if you can do so with left-over cash after you have funded your after tax and pre-tax savings and invested those properly, after you have paid off all your debt, and after you have established at least 6 months of emergency money. The long and short of that is that, from a financial standpoint, you should buy a much more modest house than you could “afford” using a mortgage.
    Let’s face it – A man buys a big house in order to attract or keep a woman. He is following his natural instinct to provide her with a nest. That is a primal contract.
    But western anti-civilization has broken down that contract and turned it into a potential weapon against any man that enters into it. Yes, some men get lucky. At least half will get financially raped, however. Half of the remaining half will be miserable, living their life with an ungrateful woman, and tied to a mortgage and a house he can’t escape. So the odds are not in your favor.
    Forget about providing a nest for a woman to have children for you. Take care of yourself. Provide a nest for yourself. Once you start thinking in that manner you will find that meeting your needs and desires is something far different from the “American Dream” you were sold.

  72. The author of this post is either a young guy who went straight from the dorm room to his first rented apartment or an old fool who doesn’t understand the concept of building equity.
    Yes, buying real estate has its risks – you should never go into it with the idea that you will make a profit, only that you can recover some of what you would have spent on rent anyway. When it comes to renting, you will **never** get back any of the money you spent on rent – not one cent.
    Sure, you can blow a load of money buying a McMansion in some neighborhood that goes tits up with the next banking crunch. More realistically, if you buy something that is rentable (like a 1br condo), you can still rent it out while you live elsewhere and let someone else keep paying your mortgage (or most of it, anyway). This isn’t a black and white question – renting makes sense for some people in certain situations. But long term, you are throwing your money down the toilet by being a life long renter. Your call.

  73. If you rent you are still paying mortgage… that is paying off your landlord’s mortgage. If you can afford to buy, then buy. I don’t see any long term collapse in real estate prices when the population never ceases to grow. Property in any major American city is about as sure a long-term bet as you can get with little downside other than flexibility.

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