Is Bedding And Keeping Virgins The Key To Successful Relationships With Women?

Dating a virgin of legal age may give the best opportunities for securing long-term, satisfying relationships. Many, many men, and certainly not just those familiar with Return Of Kings, deplore the state of modern, slutty “femininity.” But what are you doing to both avoid the emotionally and/or physically diseased female population and find the better women? This is the question you need to be asking yourself every day you seek, spend time, or cultivate a connection with women you might bed.

Regardless of whether you’ve already bedded zero virgins or twenty, you should still be chasing them, if you have not already taken one as a girlfriend, fiancé or wife. Your priority should be to find a woman who has either had no sexual partners or very few. This can be a relative thing, depending on the woman’s age (four partners for a 25-year-old is most often better than three for a 20-year-old).

What my relationships with virgins have taught me

Though it has been easier to find regular sexual relationships with girls who have had a few sexual partners, these relationships often lasting years, my longest serious romantic relationships have been with virgins or near-virgins.

These women shared three characteristics:

1. They paid for their share of things. They knew I had traveled and still traveled extensively. They knew I had a penchant for jetting off somewhere for months at a time, eating out at restaurants (I deplore cooking), and new clothes, all of which pointed to the ability to pay for them (the girls) as well. All this said, they did not even try to manipulate the situation in their favor. Of course, I would have dumped them if they had, but the fact they did not is a trait too rare found in today’s women.

2. In many cases they put themselves into debt or sacrificed very heavily to do things with me. If we planned a trip, whether in Europe, Australia or elsewhere, I made it clear I would pay only half. Anything lent to them would have to paid back with inflation. The same went for any living arrangements we had. There was one exception to this, where I offered to pay two-thirds for my girlfriend at the time when she was working as a shop assistant (I consider it a mistake that I did this, but the one third was still a lot harder for her to get than the two-thirds was for me). With these girls, I was always paid back, even if we had broken up before all the funds were returned.

3. They went out of their way to help me, in the way men should be able to expect. Lunches were made when necessary, dinners were prepared, and they performed serendipitous acts like gift-giving, other surprises, and generally helping me day-to-day. Everything in life is transactional, remember, but the best things feel the least transactional. This was the case, in large part, with these girls.

The general profile of virgins in contemporary times

The virgins you seek are more likely to be:

  • Younger, in their mid to late teens and early twenties. Attractive girls can certainly be older virgins, but your prospects greatly diminish after 22 and even 20. You may as well presume any decent-looking girl who has already hit 18 is not a virgin. You will be right most of the time.
  • Religious or previously impacted on by a religious code or religious-style morality. Do not be put off by this if you are not a religious person yourself. Plenty of girls have abandoned the formality of religious practice whilst not deciding to whore themselves out to the world. Lapsed or ex-Mormons I have known from Brigham Young University in Hawaii are an excellent example of these girls. After leaving their church days behind them, they were somewhat “slow” in moving onto sex.
  • Politically conservative or nationalist. Again, do not count on this. It should be tattooed on your brain that women vote leftwing in greater proportions than men.

It is up to you to locate the places where these women are more likely to be. More factors can be at play, either hindering or enhancing your search for virgins or near-virgins. If you live in a university city, your options will be better. If you live in an oil rig town, they will be harder. Be aware of and act with an appreciation of your social environment, but do not be controled by it.

Act before time runs out

You only have a limited amount of time on Earth. As you get older, unless you have somehow accumulated the fame, body or material resources that will attract the quite young and other women more likely to be virgins, your window for finding a purer girl to marry, mix your seed, and have children with will diminish.

So act now. A regressive modern culture will not permit you as many good women to choose from as you would like, so it is your responsibility to find them in a very competitive sexual marketplace. And find them you must, as before too long either other men will have them or they will not be worth your desire once they become whores.

Read More: Most Female Leaders Are Only Successful Because Of Their Male Relatives

436 thoughts on “Is Bedding And Keeping Virgins The Key To Successful Relationships With Women?”

  1. I’m sure virginity plays a big part in it… (I’ve never been with a virgin, I wouldn’t know).
    From my experience, all my best relationships (read: girls that were kinder, sweeter, more caring, more loyal) came from girls who said I was the first person they’d really loved.
    With great power comes great responsibility.

  2. Great article, although I’d only sleep with a virgin on our wedding night. If it was just a typical sex encounter, I’d feel like a prick for doing so.

      1. I’m sure he intended to sleep with her on their wedding night without marrying her, thanks for the good advice.

    1. Yeah I agree, fucking a virgin before you are married is you ruining some other man’s virgin.

      1. I totally agree, most guys won’t look at it that way in the heat of the moment, hence all the sluts out there, but in principle you are very much correct.

      2. That’s exactly why I always dumped the virgins when I encountered them. Exception making my first GF.

      3. You are blaming us as if these were cars we crashed and ignoring the girls’ agency and accountability. The only guys who should be guilted for deflowering virgins are rapists. She already had ruined scruples to be drawn to that sort of man and to treat sex so loosely if it mattered to her so much.

        1. Encourage the women around you to keep their virginity sacred for their husband. Women need direction and if they don’t have a man in their life giving it to them they will get it from the media and society and end up just another dumpster slut.

  3. In a nutshell:
    1. Virginity makes a better woman.
    2. Men should learn game and deflower as many virgins as possible
    3. Complain about low quality of modern women.
    If men want to live in a better society they should actively reject fornication, not support it.

    1. I personally wouldn’t go “deflowering” virgins, even in my hedonistic youth.
      Never seemed right.

      1. I was friends/sometime lovers with a predatory siren in highschool who told me she had lost count of how many guys she had seduced, de-virginized, and then swiftly dumped on their faces leaving a breathtaking swath of misery and destruction in her wake. The motive: pay the misery forward.
        A couple years ago I was trying to get with this hot black chic who made out with me just to spite another guy, and she refused to fuck me but then at a debauched house party I was at, she devirginized this shy 17 year old dude and then the next day dumped him on his face leaving him miserable as fuck.
        One of my younger friends lost his virginity to this blonde bombshell, and the following day she fucked one of his best friends, and by the end of the week had fucked 2 more dudes in their social circle, stirring up jealousy, hatred, and heartache.
        Another friend of mine who had been best friends with this guy since kindergarten, was seduced by this siren who his best friend was still in love with, and she destroyed their 20 year friendship for a time but thankfully they got over it. But between then, she yanked my chain and seduced me too and now he wont jam music with me anymore even though she dumped me for him!
        So, don’t feel too guilty, women love emotionally destroying young dudes who are still idealistic about love, and women love coming between men and destroying their friendships like some kind of sociopathic trophy.

        1. Low post count, high wisdom. Another great post Bollockser.

        2. That sucks but it’s not the same thing as a guy taking a girl’s v-card. Guys don’t lose SMV by losing their v-card, if anything they gain more SMV.

        3. True, to quote a comment I read on here once:
          > Sexual experience enriches men and impoverishes women

        4. It’s divide and conquer of men. Unkept and wild women naturally do that. The true nature of women has always been so. Societies invented things like burkas and feet binding to keep women in check. Also negro tribes would stretch saucers in their lips to keep their irritating yappers from flapping.
          NOW take it up a notch and observe the married families, women in resedential neighborhoods who go to another level of divide and conquer. Notice how men in neighborhoods rarely congregate and socialize amongst themselves these days. Their WOMEN drive a wedge between the men and their own neighbors. A woman has free licence now to start a conflict or a war at will if she doesn’t get her way, with a reserve claim constantly running on the estate. She can make a call and file no fault if she doesn’t get what she wants.
          The divorce rape industry (DRI) is worse than a band of bolsheviks running the country. If ever a group should be purged, it would be them. With assurance of mutual financial ruin, a woman dictates who she approves of within her neighborhod. If her hubby associates with red pill or other men who plot to deny her access to the DRI apparatus, she starts a war or conflict out of the blue. ‘Bitch control’ it’s called. I once struck up a red pill convo with a neighbor couple and commented how this one dumb bitch had a new car again. Her hubby kept caving into her whims evern though she was a sorry female who couldn’t reproduce or cook. They adopted and the bitch couldn’t tit feed still but got new cars like a goddamn princess? The couple I chatted with got antsy when the girl started tugging on the guy to leave and not ever talk to me again. I wasn’t finished though and wanted to give him some pointers on controlling a nag who won’t let the man lead. What’ll she do, call out the DRI on me? Sheeit.
          The bottom line, we all need to control our women better. The teen sluts you talk of should have been married off at puberty to 30 some year old LANDOWNERS and qualified voters. Try and sue me for saying that but the truth is that’s the way it was in colonial times.
          Today men practically have to meet in secret with all the wild women running about who try to divide and conquer men.

        5. True but the real dirty secret of male sexuality is how romantic we are when no ones looking. I’m sure some guys just don’t care, but many men would still much rather their first time means something with someone who actually likes them.
          Plus how, for young guys, I can see the realization that the woman who slept with them didn’t even really find them attractive or think they were worth a second time can be a punch right in the insecurity.

        6. The problem is that the men have gotten weak and they love being slaves. It’s what a low nutrition diet and hence low testosterone results in.

        7. Women seem to be able to takeover a man’s social and family networks to the point he can become dependent upon her. This is in part a matter of the greater time women have, their natures to instinctively map relationships. It probably in an era of stable marriages might even be of service to a busy man and his family. Its purpose is social climbing as well as the retention of family and friendship networks.
          However it can and often goes too far.
          A case in point is the private men’s club. Clubs where men enjoy each others friendship without the distraction of female beauty or the censorious nature of some women which limits the range of discussion. Men can talk on men’s interests without being diverted by female interests.
          The men’s club ensures a man is not tempted if he is married. It exercises a man social skills and let’s him hatch plans, business ideas, fantasies.
          Women hate them. They can’t access a male network and climb it. They can’t make the man emotionally dependant on her.
          I value female company but at times it is important to get away from it.
          The Prose Edda, of Norse religion, advises men to walk paths to other men lest they grow over.

        8. This is why I cling to virginity, I am a bad judge of character and would get my heart broken like those guys and would feel hollow fucking girls in one night stands. I have the foresight to see that while it would be awesome for a day it wojld suck for the next week or month or year.

    2. That’s what pisses me off about this. You don’t get to pick and choose what degeneracy to reject just so you can have a little bit of fun for yourself. Makes you no better than an SJW.

    3. There does seem to exist a schism in game. Different genetic strategies that manifest and compete. Have you ever seen Stefan Molyneux’s video about r/K selection? I’ve seen a few autistic rants about r/K selection, and how the scientific community has tried to trash it with dreaded peer review. When I first heard about it, I came to a lot of immediate conclusions, about life and my own life. But he did an honest, very thorough and insightful take on it, and it really made sense.
      How it relates to game and self improvement, I think is something we’ll have to form accordingly and patiently. But the schism you perceive does absolutely exist, I think.

      1. r/k has a fundamental problem with it. It assumes quantity isn’t quality, but this isn’t true. I would think it’s interesting to note that species with lots of offspring are typically smaller and require less time for offspring to grow. Whales and Humans have fewer offspring (K), Cats and dogs have more (S, the middle group), and Spiders and Ants have thousands. It goes in an almost perfect correlation.

        1. Based on everything I’ve heard of r/K, I’ve heard the complete opposite. But he theory has been sort of phased out since the 90’s by the scientific establishment. Not PC enough.

        2. “I’ve heard the complete opposite” Such as?
          “But he theory has been sort of phased out since the 90’s by the scientific establishment.” The basic ideas haven’t been phased out, but the more detailed mathematics of it and such have been. It wasn’t intended to be this rule of absolution thing anyways, it was mainly just a heuristic tool.
          “Not PC enough.” How? It wasn’t controversial at all, it just wasn’t super accurate.
          I don’t see the point of the PUA/Manosphere obession with r/K. It’s a species reproduction strategy, not a mating strategy. It has very little relevance to the discussion on human sexuality and manospherism. Humans are most definitely on the K side of the spectrum, females only produce one and fairly rarely 2 babies, and they have no power to choose if they want to do r or K selection. I don’t understand what point they are trying to make by bringing it up.
          “and how the scientific community has tried to trash it with dreaded peer review.” Peer review is the process whereby studies are scrutinized (not necessarily in a negative way)by fellow scientists before and immediately after the release of a study. It wasn’t killed by peer review, it was killed by future studies.

        3. I wasn’t trying to be a dick in my reply to you. I’ve just literally never heard that quaintly/quality point not being presupposed, especially when I hear some autist trying to be abstract and rationalize r/K while explaining his perception of it. Never in conversation or anything (including the video I mentioned in the first comment I left) was your point not presupposed either. Never in a scientific paper have I heard that as an assumption, either because it was irrelevant to, or central to the study in premise. In that, assumption has no rightful place in any legitimate paper on any issue, and is not a problem with the theory, which was also a point I was trying to make. I just try to be succinct and fail at it often.
          I call bullshit on it not being controversial. Controversy did and continues to arise from its potential to create inconvenient debates about behavior as it relates to genetics in humans. Differential K theory developed by Jean Phillipe Rushton was the beginning of the scientific avalanche of r/K theory. Once that started to make waves, the wrong kinds of waves, r/K theory was enveloped into the life history theory. As you said, since then very, very little has been published in relation to r/K theory. And this is especially true for aspects of behavior and genetics because of Rushton. But to be fair, those who saw similar patterns after him and published papers on it didn’t help. Basically, it was perceived as racist af.
          In that, I maintain that r/K was stabbed and shot multiple times, then murdered with a blowtorch by peer review. I saw it happen, I have pics of it on my buddies phone. Peer review operates like a scientific oligarchy, like the Catholic church did in the Inquisition. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
          With respect, I think its up to the manosphere to do what it pleases with r/K, or any scientific theory or philosophy, or historical understanding, etc… Its why a lot of us find this corner of the web interesting. You separate reproduction strategy with mating strategy and it really does confuse me. I know we all had trouble accepting some of the truths we found in this corner of the web. That whole “red pill” phase.To me, it was genetic strategy and its totality. Genetic strategy is life itself, and applies to every single dimension of culture and human participation. It is inseparable from any aspect of life, as I perceive it.
          But to some people it makes no sense and that’s cool too. Whatever helps you become a better man, right?

        4. lol
          I’m sorry. I guess I spend too much time on the internet, and so my expectations on humanity are starting to become primitively low. lol

        5. “Controversy did and continues to arise from its potential to create inconvenient debates about behavior as it relates to genetics in humans. Differential K theory developed by Jean Phillipe Rushton” But how? K selection is inherent to humans. Women (generally) don’t ever have more than 2 babies at most. Rushton’s application of r/K wasn’t really correct. Neither r or K are superior to each other, they are both simply strategies to get particular results. On the other hand, people in undeveloped countries aren’t using r, they are simply failing to use or lack access to family planning. Like I said, the inherent biological futures of humans make it so that they must use K selection, you simply cannot achieve a birth rate anywhere near that of r selection.
          “You separate reproduction strategy with mating strategy and it really does confuse me.” When I say reproductive strategy, I basically mean species wide. So in a species with reproductive strategy of r selection, females have a multitude of offspring per pregnancy (think mice, rats, etc.). K strategy would be like Humans, having only 1 or a few offspring per birth. A female rat can’t just decide it’s going to go use K-selection as it’s strategy, r-selection is inherent to it’s biology, and visa versa for humans.

        6. Now we are starting to see where we were failing in terms of communication.
          Yeah, apes (including us), wolves, whales are a product of /K selection, we agree. Its how we perform in the bigger picture, and how we optimally compete. But if you apply r/K theory to our species, with all of the available data, you do see that some are more aligned with one strategy than another, despite our strategy as apes being unchangeable. Only if you assume that our species is exempt from possessing some of the r/ selection traits in practice on a scale is this perspective absurd. But that assumption is absurd. Some species have traits of both r/K, many in the reptile family for instance, though I’m not saying we or our immediate evolutionary ancestors were a product of r/ selection.
          I’m saying that some of the realities of the theory were perceived as ambiguous or misconstrued for the sake of it being inconvenient.
          Its only if you subscribe to the prevailing moral system, which forces you to perceive the metanarrative of the species being in complete unison, with universal morality and the same wants and desires, the same capacities even, and some being privileged and all the others being unfortunate or even oppressed, as a reality. I don’t, because its impossible. Some cultures clearly have higher average IQ, weaker fertility rates, lower mortality rates and lower infant mortality rates. Sexual maturity, for instance, in developed nations boys attain puberty much later than boys in the 3rd world. This has been widely observed. And some cultures experience the opposite on such spectrums, in terms of intelligence, fertility rates, infant mortality rates and mortality rates as a whole, comparatively.
          I don’t think what we call underdeveloped countries simply fail at family planning. Its much more complex than that, and I’m not taking a sociological route on the issue. I’m sure its largely epigenetics, or at least epigenetic to an extent, and geographical realities, but our differences with them and all differences are quite a matter of genetic strategy, I think. You can juxtapose r/K selection theory against very current statistical realities and find undeniable correlations. In that, there are too many patterns, for me at least, to deny that r/K theory has potential for practical application in terms of understanding the species as a whole. But I respect your position of thinking it has no application to that sort of thing and I understand your perspective.
          As how it applies to game and self improvement, I am not sure. I’ve had some really cool conversations about it, and some really, really lame ones. I heard one guy from the UK say that “nice guys” are inherently /K selection and bad boy man sluts are inherently r/ selection, and that women desire r/ selection because most or all women are predisposed to want r/ selected men. If those are the PUA types and ideas you’re used to hearing, I totally understand the lack of credibility you give to pseudo scientists in the manosphere/PUA who try to use r/K theory to explain things. But I’m using it for other stuff muahahahahaha. (That’s my sinister laugh).

        7. Humans are a K species compared to other organisms on the planet… but there is also a r/K spectrum within humans. Colder climate “shelter/resource builders” are K-type. Warmer climates “shelter/resource competitors” are r-type.

        8. That isn’t true. Humans have started having less children because child mortality rates have dropped. Societies with lower child mortality have lower birth rates. It has nothing to do with climate. For example Brazil (more industrialized) has a lower birth rate than Mongolia (less industrialized). South Korea has a lower birth rate than North Korea. Cold climates don’t not make you a “builder” and warm climates don’t make you a a “competitor”.

        9. “Some species have traits of both r/K, many in the reptile family for instance, though I’m not saying we or our immediate evolutionary ancestors were a product of r/ selection. ” This is called S-selection. And that is for animals like dogs or cats.
          “Its only if you subscribe to the prevailing moral system, which forces you to perceive the metanarrative of the species being in complete unison, with universal morality and the same wants and desires, the same capacities even, and some being privileged and all the others being unfortunate or even oppressed, as a reality.” What are you trying to say?
          “Some cultures clearly have higher average IQ, weaker fertility rates, lower mortality rates and lower infant mortality rates.” And with the exception of fertility and perhaps casually IQ, this is all due to cultural or environment factors.
          “I don’t think what we call underdeveloped countries simply fail at family planning.” Muslims don’t, they really do intend on S(ish) selection. But besides them, every other group of people in the Undeveloped world are just failing to plan families.
          “I heard one guy from the UK say that “nice guys” are inherently /K selection and bad boy man sluts are inherently r/ selection” Bullshit. “bad boys” aren’t necessarily having any more children than any “betas” in fact, they are typically the people who intend on NOT having children.
          “and that women desire r/ selection because most or all women are predisposed to want r/ selected men.” How? I don’t get what they that person is trying to say with that? They like men who have other partners? In fact, I don’t seem to be able to get a list or explanation from PUA’s of what women want at all. It seems to me that they mostly just talk out of their asses, because their is no biological or evolutionary reason why women would like that as a trait in men…

        10. Dear god, Dude, I specifically mentioned that story about the PUA from the UK to explain why I could understand your perspective in r/K theory not being applicable to game. That particular claim he was trying to establish makes no god damn sense, and that was the point. However, I think r/K is applicable to game, and to a lot of things at least in an abstract sense. That was the premise of the Molyneux video I recommended in my original comment, except Molyneux used it to explain why political debate is essentially pointless, and wasn’t talking about game at all.
          I have never heard of S selection until you said it, was that one of your original points about dogs? I don’t think humans or our immediate ancestors were anything other than /K selection. Not in the broader spectrum of things and at least as long as we’ve been apes has this been different. Plus, that was nothing anywhere near to what I was implying, and you do that sort of thing quite often.
          My point was that culture is a product of genetic strategy, and not separate from genetic strategy in the slightest. And that, epigenetics do apply to this (in terms of puberty, genetic strategy, maybe even to a small extent IQ). They fail at family planning because of culture, which is a result of genetic strategy. What else creates culture? What else explains the anomaly of human creativity? That entire mini-rant about metanarrative was my point that people believe culture and intelligence and all of these things are quite separate from genetic strategy, as a result of this universalist, corrupted form of humanism that is prevailing. Its prevailing because its easier to sell, and people want to believe these things, that we’re all the same in such a cultivated sense. But its so obviously impossible.
          Not that I’m giving credence to that UK PUA I mentioned, but I thought this should be explained to you since you mentioned it. Bad boys not necessarily having more children is irrelevant to the reality of the situation. I think its fairly obvious that women prefer masculine, sexually potent men, and a lot of “bad boys” simply fall within this metric. Birth control, safer abortion practices and scientific changes are a reality of modern civilization, so much so that it skewers the natural metrics of genetic strategy. Pregnancy, infection from termination and diseases that are going to make her literally rot away, are no where near as much of a concern to modern women. People, but more so women in particular can take risks that they previously couldn’t imagine. And trust me when I say, the vast majority are taking full advantage of these changes.
          How long have you been reading stuff in the manosphere? I’ve not read much from PUA’s, but I read Roosh and one other on occasion. Have you ever heard of Roissy/Chateau Heartiste? He is better educated, older and wiser than I am on the issues of biomechanics, genetic strategy (and how it relates to game) and game as a whole. He can help you solve the bad boy dilemma that confuses you. He had one blog article titled: Chicks dig jerks: the science. Or something like that. Give that a read.

        11. I know it was bwhitz you were responding to, but I found this remarkable. You think environmental factors over the last 100k years are irrelevant in an evolutionary sense, and that humans, as an entire species, have less children because child mortality rates have dropped? This shit your mind allows you to skip over is kind of amazing Andrew.

        12. “have less children because child mortality rates have dropped?” That is one of the largest reasons, but yes. Evolution and environment factors have nothing to do with it. It’s still very easy to have children.
          “This shit your mind allows you to skip over is kind of amazing Andrew.” Well maybe then you should explain what you actually disagree about this, because currently you are just doing a Reductio ad absurdum.

        13. Ok, breaking out the Latin now I see. I’ll start being a cunt and quote specific points of dispute too. If that’s how you’re gonna be.
          “That is one of the largest reasons, but yes.” You think that in the United States over the course of the 20th century, for instance, women stopped having children at the replacement rate, simply because less infants die? Not primarily all of the changes to social metrics, the pill, contraception, wage stagnation, post industrialism, etc.?
          “Well maybe then you should explain what you actually disagree about this, because currently you are just doing a Reductio ad absurdum.” Because your arguments are absurd. I thought you might see that your entire response to him validates his perception of less developed countries taking on a more prone r/ selected genetic strategy, and that manifests in different ways.
          “Humans have started having less children because child mortality rates have dropped. Societies with lower child mortality have lower birth rates. It has nothing to do with climate. For example Brazil (more industrialized) has a lower birth rate than Mongolia (less industrialized). South Korea has a lower birth rate than North Korea.” I didn’t want to use societies after the industrial revolution as examples, because modern aspects as a result of the industrial revolution and post industrialism skewer the reality of genetic strategy. But despite that, you sort of validated his response. Societies that are less developed take on a more r/ selected route, because there is little that can be invested in the children and there is little chance all of them will survive to adulthood. Look at some of the highest fertility rates for example, Somalia, Mali, Niger and compared to say Uruguay or Canada. If you do, tthey do practice more a more r/ selected route of genetic strategy. Its quite obvious. They even compete for the most basic of resources in places that extreme.
          “Evolution and environment factors have nothing to do with it.” These are realities that never cease to be applicable, and I’m legitimately surprised you took that route.
          Did you check out Chateau Heartiste yet? What did you think?

        14. “That was the premise of the Molyneux video I recommended in my original comment, except Molyneux used it to explain why political debate is essentially pointless, and wasn’t talking about game at all.” I have previously attempted to watch some of his videos, and all I can say is I will watch his videos as soon as he can get to the fucking point. I mean really, he takes like an hour and a half to say things other people can explain in 5 minutes.
          “I have never heard of S selection until you said it” I found it in a study somewhere, I can’t seem to find it again. But, yes it’s basically just animals with a middle path, this graph describes it pretty well: http://www.bio.miami.edu/tom/courses/bil160/bil160goods/16_survivorship.gif
          “And that, epigenetics do apply to this (in terms of puberty, genetic strategy, maybe even to a small extent IQ). They fail at family planning because of culture, which is a result of genetic strategy.” This is a reasonable point. But I must inquire, would it be possible to bring people outside of western culture into western culture?
          “I think its fairly obvious that women prefer masculine, sexually potent men” But what IS masculine? Generally aren’t all men sexually potent?
          “How long have you been reading stuff in the manosphere?” Not sure exactly, maybe a year?
          “I’ve not read much from PUA’s, but I read Roosh and one other on occasion.” I only really read Roosh though ROK, and his articles are more philosophical than PUA (at this point).
          “Have you ever heard of Roissy/Chateau Heartiste?” Yes but I haven’t read him. After you suggested him here I decided to and he seems to have quite a lot of interesting ideas and arguments.
          “He had one blog article titled: Chicks dig jerks: the science. Or something like that.” He actually has several article on that and I read them all. The one thing I still don’t understand is what he means by a jerk/bad boy. Does he mean actual trouble makers? Does he mean a tough personality? I’ll email him and ask him probably.

        15. “women stopped having children at the replacement rate, simply because less infants die?” Not simply, but it is certainly a contributing factor.
          “Not primarily all of the changes to social metrics, the pill, contraception, wage stagnation, post industrialism, etc.?” I honestly think the birth control pill is overblown in it’s effect. There was already access to birth control before birth control pills. In fact, more effect birth control than the birth control pill before it was put on the market.
          “But despite that, you sort of validated his response. Look at some of the highest fertility rates for example, Somalia, Mali, Niger and compared to say Uruguay or Canada.” I was using crappy writing to in my response. I mean the builders vs competitors isn’t true and that humans choosing to have more or less children has too do with industrial level, not climate. I contrasted the temperate nations of North and South Korea, and then the tropical industrialized nation of Brazil to the cold industrialized nation of Mongolia as examples of this climate dichotomy not being true. I can agree though, that less industrial countries do practice less of a K strategy than industrial. But it is due to industrialization, not the reverse.
          “‘Evolution and environment factors have nothing to do with it.’ These are realities that never cease to be applicable, and I’m legitimately surprised you took that route.” Well I will split the two up and explain why they are wrong. Genetic: Do women Congoid and Asiatic descent have a higher chance of starting pregnancy? No. Do they have more children during pregnancy each? No. Okay, so I don’t see how in any way they are genetically predisposed to having more children. So now onto environment: You tell me this one, is their anything inherent to the environment of these countries that cause higher premature death rates? Or is it just lack of development?
          “Did you check out Chateau Heartiste yet? What did you think?” Yes I did. You can see what I thought in my other response.

        16. As for why some have more children (Your Congoid/Asiatic example), I do continue to think evolution and genetics apply. Not fertility in the sense of child production capacity in a physical sense, (sounds kind of weird to say it like that, but yeah) but a psychological one. That may not seem entirely reasonable initially, but with the premise of genetic strategy applied as a metric, it starts to make more sense.
          Genetic strategy takes the form of a psychological profile mostly, I think, and is passed trough genetic predisposition as well as inherited culture. I know I said earlier that culture is a product of genetic strategy, and I stand by that conclusion still. I maintain that these things are quite connected, genetic strategy being the systemic root, and the cycle has no true beginning, but is perpetuated with each birth and maturation process contained to a collective, according to its genetic strategy. Much like antisocial disorder (psychopathy, sociopathy) for instance, which is treatable in some cases and even reversible, and it quite often has a heredity basis. Some researches note that some cultures and societies display anti-social behavior far more than others, with impulsive and criminal actions, moral decay, murder, sexual perversity, abuses of power, etc… all being fairly standard. This is not a roll of the genetic dice as I perceive it, but a highly interconnected process.
          How could a culture with poor scientific, medical, economical and educational standards (and potential) come to the conclusion that twice the child replacement rate as an average is an acceptable standard? I don’t think it is merely poor family planning, but a remarkably complex psychological barrier set up between one’s capacity to rationalize behavior and the most accordingly viable genetic strategy to metrics set a very long time ago by perceivable necessity or desire or conflict, whatever the cause(s). These rationalizations come in many forms to the individual and the collective, but supposing sanity, these thoughts have similar foundations. Religious code, honor systems, social norms, expectations, love, etc etc… all serving as these foundations of rationalization, for the purpose of masquerading desires more primal and subconscious, which stem from the root of survival and continuation by means of genetic strategy.
          I hope that sums it up.
          As for if any more r/ selected person or culture can be more like western culture, which is seemingly more /K selected, or integrate with us, yeah, I definitely think so. I’m not sure to what extent and I wasn’t trying to say that they should be. I think that, in any collective, when one is an outsider, or a smaller collective trying to merge, there should be a will to integrate and adopt, no matter the perceivable conflictions. I wasn’t trying to say some people are more r/, some more /K, and they are essentially different species. On a cultural level, fairly incompatible, as they have totally different ends and means, different destinies, I think.
          What is masculine? There are many broad ideas of it. I don’t know what Roosh and QC have as an idea of what it means to be masculine which I can sum up simplistically. They are attempting to form a new philosophy, which takes time. If you are asking me, if I had to sum my perception simplistically, I would say a man should have robust physical health, an actualized psyche (logical capacity, philosophic, scientific and artistic pursuits), a sense of culture and humor, self sufficiency, martial prowess and most importantly virtuous principles. This is a complex and almost impossible standard, but it is a good standard to strive for, I’ve found.
          Connotation is something that simple people have an easy time with, and you seem like you have a good head on your shoulders. So forming a concept of masculinity, defined by your perception may be a necessary undertaking. I read a lot of Shakespeare and classical western works and philosophy when I was cultivating my sense of masculinity. Once you learn how to tap into your sexuality life becomes a lot more beautiful of a thing, I think.
          I agree on Stef. Abstract thought is something he prefers, so, he dwells a lot on things. I’m glad to see you took an interest in CH. He is very interactive with readers, so you may get a decent reply on that particular question. In my opinion, all women aren’t going to desire bad boys, weather they are literal trouble makers or not, but many are. You would be amazed at the amount of women that are attracted to psychopaths, killers and really morally revolting men. Those aren’t the types of women I’ve really ever been interested in, even back when I was more of a jerk on a consistent basis. Oddly enough, that was before I ever learned about game as a concept. I wanted to attract the right kind of women, not just physically attractive women.
          This reply is getting absurdly long, so I’ll stop here.

        17. About 6000 years ago, memes starting to surpass genes as the operative factor in human evolution. Thus, there can be causation from that which does not directly correspond to a physical entity, to that which is a physical entity.

    4. Hear hear!!
      I’m as guilty as anybody here: if you’ve slept with virgins and aren’t married to any of them, you’re a significant part of the problem.

      1. I’ve never slept with virgins. I wish I could find one. I’d try to lock’her down at all costs. Once they’ve had a few dicks though, you’re just another one in the pile, and probably not even her favorite. Why should a guy give a fuck about anything other than his nut by that point?

        1. Visit China. I went during the Olympics and found many great ladies. All turned out to be virgins who wanted to be married and make their man happy. The cultures need some time to mesh but I have been with two ladies who were virgins on our wedding nights (still with both, just not legal for one) and have enjoyed a jet set life of travel, fun, love and two wives who want to please me with great cooking, loving and happiness. The westernized ladies of China want equality in the marriage. The traditional ladies (virgins) want a happy marriage. And it is still common to find 30 year old virgins in China.

    5. It has to be women who reject fornication. If 9 out of 10 men all wait until marriage to have sex, the 10th man will still be able to keep up with the demand for sex from women. The reverse isn’t true.

      1. Read the example of the guy who found a 21-year-old unicorn below. Had he decided to do the trashy thing and get rid of her, she would’ve turned into a feminist slut and possibly single mother.
        And men don’t have responsibility? This site is all about teaching men to regain the power they have been brainwashed into saying they shouldn’t wield. If they don’t act civilized then they are rogues.
        Women by nature like to be seductive and desirable. Whether they will do so in a nurturing and civilized manner is up to the kinds of men who pursue them.

        1. Can’t disagree with this. For me it’s more about taking what you can because there’s no solution. But if there were, I’d be right there with you.

    6. I agree. Ideally, a man should find one woman to be with, and if she’s great, be happy with her.
      It is ridiculous to expect women to be virgin, but allow the guy to fuck 100 women. Read about that drummer guy in one of the posts above me. Dude totally does NOT deserve the luck he got with that chick.

      1. I disagree. Are there a lot of scumbags who get tail left and right? Sure, but show me a male virgin alpha who has the frame and experience to mold a young female virgin in our turbulent times and I’ll show you my third testicle.

        1. I…actually have a friend like this. He actually is the mythical virgin alpha male, or was until he got married. Sure I don’t know for certain, yada yada yada, but he was doing so out of genuine religious conviction so in those circumstances it is possible, His marriage was also semi arranged so there is that.
          All I’m saying is it is possible, but you just about have to be in the right subculture for it.

        2. Don’t get me wrong, that whole situation was still crazy rare, and your point basically still stands.

      2. >>It is ridiculous to expect women to be virgin, but allow the guy to fuck 100 women.
        A key that can open any lock is a master key. A lock that can be opened by any key is a worthless lock.

        1. It doesn’t matter who can open that lock. What matters is 100 keys now don’t have a lock. The lock analogy is for low IQ’s shags…

        2. Except locks and keys are totally different things, men and women are both people, so aren’t anywhere as different as locks and keys.

        3. The analogy holds. It’s economics: A key is a low-investment economic model, a lock is a high investment economic model. The freedoms and values of the two extend from there. As with humans.

        4. I don’t know… I think the majority of both men and women who have multiple relationships are somehow unstable, or have some kind of personality issues.
          That’s what I’ve seen to be true so far in my 35 years of life anyway.

        5. I agree with you on the instability thing. Jumping around to dozens of partners is at best an unsavory character flaw, and at worst a psychotic desire to be a disease vector.
          But men are still making a low-cost investment into these unstable relationships, while women make a high-cost one. There’s plenty of places where this is reversed (war, for instance), but in this particular case, the “master key” is still a guy who successfully trades his own low-cost risk for many high-investment women, while the “useless lock” is a girl who trades her own high-cost risk for many low-investment men.

      3. It wasnt luck. He had the social status and game to catch her and I just happened to give him a strong shot of reality and get through to him that this one was a keeper and it might be time to hang up the playboy rockstar lifestyle and lock her down. Theyre both better off.

    7. If a woman has not the strength of character to require a ring and a date before her deflowering she’s still going to be a carousel rider.
      An no, men rejecting fornication does not make a better society. Men only choosing to marry virgins and requiring femininity from their women makes for a better society.
      Never prevent women from falling into their own sins. That’s white knighting.
      If one chooses to keep her virginity while not cock teasing you, that’s one that might be worth the time to get to know.

      1. “Never prevent women from falling into their own sins. That’s white knighting.” Okay I have a question. Why do women need to be virgins and men can’t? Think about it…
        You can’t eat your cake and eat it, either choose a sloot or stay a virgin.

        1. Men and women are fundamentally different, men don’t even have a hymen for fucks sake. You sound a lot like a SJW right now. If you’re a man you can have casual sex without ruining any virgins, just fuck sluts and then marry a virgin.

        2. “men don’t even have a hymen for fucks sake.” Hymens? So. Fucking. What? Hymens break all the time before sex (mainly from physical trauma) and plenty of women are born without them.
          “You sound a lot like a SJW right now.” Ohh, poor funboy was triggered by reality. Go fuck yourself retard, ROK is for people who can handle philosophical scrutiny.
          “If you’re a man you can have casual sex without ruining any virgins, just fuck sluts and then marry a virgin.” All women are born virgins dipshit. How do so many people in this comment section have such bad abstract cognition skills. And btw dipshit, there isn’t an excess of women for men!

        3. And what if that virgin doesn’t want a promiscuous man?? What if she wants someone who shares her values?

    8. 1 contravienes with 2. If you’re trying to have better women out there, why the fuck would you deflower ,,as many virgins as possible” ? The fuck is wrong with you ?

  4. I met my wife when she was 19, I was 22. She had only one sexual encounter prior. True to the article, she paid for most of half of all we did and worked her way through college. Being a woman, I still had to run game too. She’d get uppity as any. Almost 20 years and 4 kids later, all’s well.

  5. We men, sold our civilization in exchange of easy sluts (only for some of us) during our twenties. Shame on us.

    1. True, true. Men always control the situation, even when we walk away from our responsibilities. We get what we deserve.

      1. I find your “men are always to blame” philosophy…lacking.

        1. What man alive today gave women voting rights?
          You may be able to rightly claim men of the past failed, but then it was only a *very small handful*, but casting blame today is silly. I wouldn’t vote for any kind of emancipation or legal empowerment for a woman if you paid me.
          Last, women occupy positions of power now. Men are not the only culprits.

        2. I see your point. My comment is about taking responsibility for our relationships, how we can be smarter, steadier, but not exclusively so. I’m not much a woe-is-me type so I don’t think much how others are obstructions to my success. It’s hard to be lapidary. Thanks for the comment.

        3. Fuck off.
          There, now we’ve shared deep and meaningful thoughts with each other.

    2. But it was never men’s responsibility to protect the chastity of women who are not their relatives. The people who really sold out were their parents. When is the last time a parent has burned a single calorie trying to prevent their daughter from following her hormones so that she could be a virgin for her husband? 1950?

      1. Um, today? Have a daughter, instilling chastity as a father.

        1. Just noting that there are exceptions. Some of us still exist out here.

        2. GoJ, if we were to plot fathers on a scale from least chastity instilling to most chastity instilling of their daughters, most western males would be in the bottom quadrant, then probably the latin community slightly higher, blacks as a demographic wouldn’t even be on the scale, East Asian fathers would probably be somewhere around the middle, then there’d be you fairly up there, just under the giant dark cloud that is the entire Islamic community.

      2. Good point. If I remember correctly in the Song of Solomon the brothers of Solomons intended said something along the lines of if she’s a “wall” we’ll honor her and if she’s a “door” we’ll guard her. So the nature of women was pretty well known millennia ago and the solution was making sure the daughters in your family got the best deal possible and what that would take.

      3. “But it was never men’s responsibility to protect the chastity of women who are not their relatives.” Yes it was. Do you know what happens in a real patriarchy when you defile a woman? You have two options 1) Marry her or option 2) Get lynched.

        1. That doesn’t contradict my point at all. In shotgun weddings, the girl’s FATHER is holding the shotgun. Nowadays fathers don’t even try to prevent their daughters from being a slut when they are still in high school, still under the father’s roof. And then they scratch their heads and say, “those guys aren’t being gentlemen” when their daughter is 25, unmarried, and has had 30 different penises inside her.

        2. The point I was trying to make is that men can’t have pre-marital sex either. A woman always starts out virgin, and so under a real patriarchy men WILL NOT be having premarital sex.
          “Nowadays fathers don’t even try to prevent their daughters from being a slut when they are still in high school” Maybe because this current generations parents themselves were slutty. Both the men and women.
          “And then they scratch their heads and say, ‘those guys aren’t being gentlemen’ when their daughter is 25, unmarried, and has had 30 different penises inside her.” Holy shit. Thirty is a very high count. I mean the average is 8 sexual partners for millennials.

        3. The saddest thing is watching parents surrendering in advance, fitting their daughters with diaphragms in their early teens. To not even try.

        4. *facepalm* I don’t know how many times I have to point out there aren’t enough women to be prostitutes.

        5. Maybe not in the West, but there are in Southeast Asia, because a lot of the men are fags. Also why do you care if every single man gets his virgin? It is a competition isn’t it? How would things even work out so cleanly? You know a million things can go wrong in a relationship right? The only way to ensure every man got his virgin would be Sharia law

        6. “Maybe not in the West, but there are in Southeast Asia, because a lot of the men are fags.” And a lot of women are lesbians.
          “Also why do you care if every single man gets his virgin?” Because saying you are entitled to something but other people aren’t is called being a spoiled shithead. Up until now I was assuming you guys weren’t that – but I coincided that I was wrong.
          “It is a competition isn’t it? How would things even work out so cleanly? You know a million things can go wrong in a relationship right? The only way to ensure every man got his virgin would be Sharia law” Not every man has to get a virgin. I am just saying that spoiled idiots here on ROK who fÜck slÜts shouldn’t feel entitled to a virgin bride. If you feel your partner NEEDS to be virgin then you shouldn’t hold a double standard.

        7. I think men and women are fundamentally different and men can still have sex before marriage and then marry a virgin, heck I even know people who have.
          Some girls are going to be sluts no matter what, even if they start out a virgin, so as long as you don’t destroy any virgin brides during your quest for experience, everything is going to be fine. All throughout history, many males have died off in war or doing dangerous jobs, so it shouldn’t matter that you take away some guys ability to reproduce, if you can marry a virgin then go ahead. Just sitting around wanting one won’t do solve anything.
          I could get on a plane to Southeast Asia right now and find several virgins willing to marry me within 2 weeks, and anyone could probably do the same in Eastern Europe, or anywhere that’s not the western world.

        8. Again, it’s not spoiled to take away someone else’s chance at a virgin, unless you’re pumping and dumping a virgin girl, courtship is often a competition.
          Are you gonna feel bad because you got to marry your wife who was a virgin instead of the other guys that liked her? Might as well give her away then.

        9. “Again, it’s not spoiled to take away someone else’s chance at a virgin, unless you’re pumping and dumping a virgin girl, courtship is often a competition.” I am not really addressing these people. I am addressing the people who say “I WOULD NEVER TAKE A NON-VIRGIN AS A WIFE!”. I am not really in disagreement with you…

        10. Have you thought about the STDs they could catch though?
          No decent girl wants a guy who has slept with 20 prostitutes who may or may not have an STD.

        11. Yeah because those countries are usually poor, and the type of women who want to marry random foreign guys they barely know are almost ALWAYS poor themselves, and just looking for money.

      4. Honor killings in the US by immigrant parents. How about that as a clear and present danger to all females seeking to give themselves away early and often?

        1. I think it’s shitty to go out of your way to immigrate and subject your hormonal teenage daughter to our promiscuous culture and then kill her for assimilating into it.

        2. True. I will relate a middle case, which occurred in San Jose, CA a few years back. Korean parents, immigrants, were trying to prevent their sixteen year old daughter from has been called here ‘slutting’. Mother beat her bottom with a bamboo cane, left marks, and was delated (paid informer, as all CPS are). Arrested, tried, and convicted of child abuse, given a three year (suspended) sentence. Mother fainted in court when she heard this – unbelievable to her she was found criminal for attempting to control her daughter’s degenerate behavior. Do we propose these parents return to Korea?

        3. My user name is ironic. And I just said that it’s not cool to honor kill your daughter for merely assimilating into the culture that you brought her into. Do you disagree? You think that honor killings are good? That’s a strange opinion coming from an official Disqus moderator. I’m offended.

        4. No, but immigrants should consider the culture that their children will grow up in when deciding whether to immigrate or not. Count the cost. Is it really worth it to move to America so you can open up a convenient store in a Black neighborhood (just assuming since they are Koreans in San Jose) if it means that your daughter will be a slut like every other American girl?
          That case brings up an interesting aspect of our slut culture- the legal aspect of it. The state will use force to prevent you from trying to prevent your daughter from ruining herself.

  6. One of my 2 best friends is a badass drummer, good looking, charismatic, and he’s deservedly laid close to 100 chics living the rockstar life. Then a few years back he started seeing a girl who was a 21 year old virgin with zero tattoos and she is lean, feminine, kind, gentle, and sweet and she was homeschooled and rather shy and socially inexperienced. I gave him a man-to-man speech and told him he better lock her down because he’s never going to find a girl like that again and he can mould her into the person he wants her to be for her own good rather than let fakebook and fat tattooed whores corrupt her. He heeded my advice, gave up fucking random vapid party sluts and now has a happy healthy relationship with a true “unicorn”. I just wish I had met her first 🙂

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      1. Non-virgin related; another of my friends who’s a badass guitarist and good looking and “mysterious” but pretty shy, his nickname is “The Silent Assassin”, had a buxom babe who was totally into him, one of his sister’s friends, but he just wouldnt man up and take the first step. I was like, are you out of your effing mind, this chic wants YOU all you have to do as ask her out for a drink or whatever, how often does a woman make the first move, you dont have to put hardly any effort into this and she’s YOURS. Fast forward 3 years and theyre basically married, the guy wont even hang out with his bros or jamming buddies anymore cuz he’s “busy with his old lady”. He’ll play a gig and then immediately leave afterword like he’s punching a timeclock. Since I’m the one who kicked him in the arse and pushed him through the door, I’m a tad bit miffed that my motivational assistance backfired and now he’s gone AWOL. Bros before hoes man WTF??

    1. Double bless you for that. I know it may not be a popular opinion, but I don’t think monogamy for men with a decent woman gets nearly enough respect. Past a certain point wouldn’t you be happier with just one woman who loves and values you?

      1. I would have been happy with one woman ages ago. I didn’t even know vaginas differed in size until my 2nd relationship.

      2. One women whom really treats you with respect, cooks all your meals, keeps your home clean, pops out your kids and raises them and does her best to make your days easier. Hell yes! One of those is worth all the vapid sluts in the world. A women like that could really deserve a man’s monogamy.

        1. What would you do to ensure you remain sexually attracted and fully satisfied by her? Or would you simply sacrifice this for her love and devotion?

        2. Good men are not fickle, we just started playing women’s games because we had little choice. Good men would give body parts for a real wholesome woman.

        3. IDK. Live the raucous life, encourage women to sleep with you, use them and roll to the next – and THEN find the unsullied girl to fulfill your dreams.
          What about all the girls you used to get there, who are now used and used up? No feels for them?
          Karma.

        4. Women have been encouraged by many forces – not the least of which are the sexual desires of men – to leave their virginal protection and sacrifice it for “sexual liberation,” (which instantly turns them into sluts from which they never recover – the likes of which this blog amply documents.)
          As some protection, women use games to keep us at bay, but really, it would’ve been best if both had remained virgins till marriage.
          Goose and gander, right?

        5. Exactly, I waited in vain until my twenties. I gave my first real kiss, and first everything to one woman. I gave up waiting and gave in to a virgin reaper who destroyed my inner self without conscience. It took me about a decade to recover to where I am today. I loved her with everything that I was. She was my reason for any drive that I had. Now I live for me. I am finally in a relationship where I feel like the person I love is in love with me also.

        6. Totally true. What you read here and on other sites about the MRM is a reaction against Female Game, fostered and encouraged by SJW’s and the media. Most guys love kids, they want loving stable relationships. Only we can’t get them from most American women, who’re brainwashed and operate at the level of 3 year olds.

        7. Women want sex MORE than most men. They’re obsessed by it. And the whole bullshit is about them pretending they don’t, and it’s we men who’re the bad guys.

        8. Don’t ever, ever think you can have a relationship with a virgin after you’ve de-flowered her. Not gonna work. Two major personality changers for women are losing their hymen, and getting the ring on their finger. Up to those two points, they’re all game and confused and you have no idea who the real person is.

        9. I am not going to say that those events are not life changing to females but many people through the centuries apparently did have relationships with virgins that led to marriages and lasted even afterward. I do realize that society has royally fucked that scenario up for most. But to say it is not possible is an error I would think. The issue is that new wave feminism has made females interested in exploring sex more than they used to be interested maybe. Women were more interested in their long term benefits at one time and were taught to be better women. We can blame all of our female issues to date on men who had weak minds who fell victim to female trickery.

        10. Dude, it’s not a question of “Do they like sex?” Of course they do!
          It’s the reality of what happens when they give away that asset for free outside of a martial commitment.
          It turns everyone into a libertine unable to maintain normal relationships because both are too damaged.
          And it’s really bad. Try to deeply consider that the next time you go on a date.

        11. What if that “unsullied” girl left you for a richer, better looking, less promiscuous man?
          Now THAT would be karma.

    2. I call possible bs here. I’m not trying to put you on the spot, but rather I have a very difficult time believing there are any virgins left in Femerica. Fuck man, I read where girls as early as age 11 are earning their cigarette money by giving hand jobs in the shopping mall parking lot.

      1. A purple pill so called ,,friend” of mine would say ,,you’re too pesimistic, man”. And guess what, he’s actually right ( not the he understands why he’s right ). We’re looking in all of the wrong places for potential wives.

      2. I can tell from personal experience that there are. However they’re hard to find because they don’t get out much. They’re acutely aware that they don’t fit in with the mainstream and in many cases have experienced ridicule for it. In my wife’s case the people working for her would mock her for being a “lesbian” because they literally could not comprehend any other reason why she wasnt sleeping around.

        1. I’ve been in that position, I lie at my current job because the last place I worked people thought something was wrong with me or that I didn’t realize I was a lesbian. I’m glad I left, because one of these women was married yet going into the men’s restroom with their “office boyfriends.”

        2. Virgins past the age of 18 or so don’t fit in. And, being herd animals, women get “eccentric” as they get older and not laid. By the time a women is in her late 20s and still a virgin, she’s got a ton of mental problems that’ll make your life a nightmare. I’ve seen it happen several times.

      3. There’s a huge game women play about pretending to be virgins. And it’s big in that they set the man up for huge takes. And if you do find a real virgin, she’s not worth trying a relationship with. See my post above: Losing the virginity is one of the major personality flipper for women. Even they don’t know who they really are untill they lose it, and then, depending on her age, you end up with a total, manipulative psycho boning every man she can behind your back.

        1. “Losing the virginity is one of the major personality flipper for women. Even they don’t know who they really are untill they lose it, and then, depending on her age, you end up with a total, manipulative psycho boning every man she can behind your back”
          Eventually she’ll want to fuck, but your scenario is definitely plausable. Still, one best try having a long term relationship with a virgin then some God-less cum bucket whose gong has been stretch all the way back to Toledo.

        1. Because even though the act they participate in is ‘sex’ for both, the way the parties are in it, what they do and how they are affected by it is two completely different things. (say like: imagine an act of feeding a child, both participating in the same act, but both in completely different way)
          Being penetrated, had, f*cked, acted upon, stuffed, have all of one’s feels and responses coming from and caused by what the other does to me, inside me, which means being sort of ruled, to submit, give control, etc – all this affects the women to the very essence of her being and creates lasting bond of submission and belonging to the guy. Does not work like that the other way around.

        2. You do realise your points have absolutely no scientific backing? That is a bunch of fluffy bullshit that you just came up with.

        3. Dismissing someones point in this way (“bullshit”?) is not a honest discussion and it’s actually rude.
          If you for some reason want or need to deny reality, try yourself bring some scientific backing for your claims (demanding substantially different to be the same, probably because ‘equality’ ) and against my point, refrain from being disrespectful cunt, calling what the other says ‘bullshit’, and then we can talk.
          And, if you ever had sex and are a woman, use some introspection/memory and I guess you will confirm what I was saying.

        4. So calling me disrespectful cunt isn’t rude? Hah! Are you a woman? Because if you aren’t, then your points are pretty secondary, seeing as you wouldn’t even know and understand personally a woman’s perspective of sex, and how it somehow differs in a lesser way to a man’s sexual desire. You cannot make some idiotic (yes, idiotic) statement that women should be virgins when he does not have to be. Fair is fair. If a man wants a virgin so badly, then he should be one too.

        5. Regarding the rudeness – you reap what you sow, dear. What ever made you think you can talk like that to any person? Do you usually do that in your very first exchange with a stranger, who politely answers your question? (You apparently do, which would make you exactly what I said)
          Why? Didn’t your parents teach you civilized manners?
          When her (any) sexual experience negatively affects her bonding capacity and stability of relationship/marriage with subsequent partner, which is not by far that strongly the case with men, yes women should be virgins, while men don’t have to be, (they can be, of course, and you can go for one if that is what you want, but women often feel male virginity as turn off and marker of low status).
          /See eg the infamous Jay Teachman study, Premarital Sex, Premarital Cohabitation, and the Risk of Subsequent Marital Dissolution Among Women, Journal of Marriage and Family, 65, 2003./
          It’s not about fairness, but complementarity. Men should be strong, stable, masculine, protectors and providers, women don’t have to be that.
          You probably wouldn’t want weak, unstable coward for a partner (while certain, quite big, level of mental instability being typically feminine feature, and being coward is a category you even don’t activate in your mind when thinking about women, so you, woman, are typically not what you expect from male partner) , and many (if given the explicit choice, virgin x non-virgin, all the rest being more or less the same, then I dare to say that no man would) men simply wouldn’t want a woman already banged by other man/men to comit to and build life with, regardless of those men’s prior sexual experience, because she was affected by other man/men too deep, too much.
          It’s very different thing to penetrate and be penetrated, fuck and get fucked, when it comes to the depth of the experience, psychological, emotional consequences, and how you perceive the other with that experience.
          The neurochemical bonding happens in women also in different way than in men.
          I’m a man, but I know what I’m talking about. I wouldn’t dare to make any points otherwise. Have you ever had sex Jessica? (to be sure that YOU know what we are talking about).
          If yes, how do you feel about your first? Still somehow hooked to him somewhere deep inside, right?

    3. Sadly even virgins are not immune from “women’s madness”. I have had two. Both were completely mad in completely different ways.

    4. I am disgusted by a ” unicorn ” who opts for rockstar drummer, so this curbs my jealousy a bit. I will take a plainface who hates party music and wants to play vidya with me instead.

      1. That’s gotta be not true. Odds are she slept around more than average. Giving it up to a rock n’ roll guy is NOT the typical virgin game.

  7. Ideally a virgin. But an acceptable and altogether more realistic scenario is you marry a girl who has had and slept with another bloke – but he was a weiner who is massively inferior to you in every way.
    Even finding that is tough today though.
    Tomorrow’s young men will be lucky to find a girl who’s not been gangfucked by the local ice hockey team

    1. Alas, even the young farm girls from Thailand like my wife’s nieces have been corrupted by the ever-growing western influence.

    2. You are right; if I had it in me I might actually weep for my young sons for this reason alone. Only being half-facetious here.

    3. Interestingly, the average number of sexual partners per person has done down. It peaked with the baby boomers at an unholy 11 sexual partners, and it has dropped to 8 with millennials.

  8. I am confused by a few of the concepts brought up in this article. Perhaps you could clarify. As I understand it from previous articles generally young, feminine and domestically inclined females are preferred over career oriented ones. Such women are often found under the leadership of their fathers. Expected to live at home until they are married. Theoretically to the alpha male who will keep her in line as her father did before him. In return for her fertility, submission and nurturing he will provide for her financially and children for her womb. How is such a woman to afford jet setting vacations unless she is successful in her own career? Is it really a good thing to encourage a potential mate to go into debt on a whim? How are you showing her that you are worthy of her maidenhead when you expect her to pay her own way and provide you with domestic services in exchange for nothing?

    1. It’s because the “manosphere” as represented on ROK has a split personality when it comes to women. They want men to have their cake and eat it too by having sex with many women, including virgins, supposedly to increase their masculinity, while also railing against the loss of traditional sexual mores.
      Of course, I say this not to condemn ROK, but because I want to see it continue to move in a better direction.

      1. ROK is slowly morphing from pure game to something better. Now that red pill thought is popular, it is easier to introduce better ideas of relationships, masculine responsibility and marriage to an erstwhile inaccessible demographic. The topic needed to be brought up and the author broached the subject as good as any.

        1. ROK has already achieved the status of encyclopaedia for men.
          I agree with you the site has matured over time, and represents something of far greater significance than simply young guys trying to get laid.
          I’m looking forward to Roosh’s upcoming book.

      2. I don’t know if it is a “split personality” per se just that this site and the manosphere doesn’t operate with a single mind the way feminist sites do.
        A lot of different types of people with a lot of different opinions and a mutual respect for one another come here, write articles here and comment here.
        I have met people on this site who are 100% different from me in pretty much every way. What we do share in common is the belief that we should have the freedom to chose our own path as men and a healthy respect for the choices of others. This is how a healthy, intelligent and functional community operates not on talking points and lack of thought.
        So yes, it can look like it is a split personality but really that is in correct. You are comparing apples to oranges. If you look at any particular authors articles you will see that an author like Aurelius Moner and an author like Donovan Sharp both represent this community and are about as different as can be.

        1. Men are individualists, women are collectivists. That’s the source of her comment, though she doesn’t know it.

      3. Not true.
        Women control dating. Men only react. Women have lead us into “hookup culture” and sluttiness. We can only react and adapt. This site would be hypocritical if we lived with traditional mores. We don’t.

        1. Men gave up the keys of media and culture to women and a small ring of rogue, lawless alpha males by their own omission. All movements of import are ultimately led by men. However slutty they become, women are always searching for men to dominate them. Today they overwhelmingly choose barbarians to be dominated by and use tamed betas as convenient pawns when real work needs to be done.

      4. Hypocrisy works when you’re at war. As long as the Culture War continues, we must continue to be hypocrites out of self-preservation.

        1. You don’t need to by a hypocrite to self persevere, if women can wait until marriage, a man can. Having a lack of self control is not a masculine trait.

    2. Such girls often live at home, but not always. They may have a nice career, or well on their way in college, but that doesn’t mean they are career-oriented. Many will give up the career when an opportunity for a good home-maker role presents itself.
      I know multiple virgin girls who are ready to contribute financially, yet are nurturing and ready to take traditional roles. An example the author gave was lapsed Mormon girls at BYU. The question is how traditional you are willing to be yourself, in order to build a successful relationship.

      1. “The question is how traditional you are willing to be yourself, in order to build a successful relationship.”
        Spot on.

    3. I think the point wasn’t actually saying don’t pay, it was too see how they act about money and how they react to you not paying (at first). The point being, women who blush or get annoyed that you didn’t offer to pay are more selfish and have an I, me, mine personality, which isn’t necessarily the kind of person who waits until marriage…

  9. Being a virgin doesn’t necessarily make her a unicorn. One virgin I was first with was a Filipina who knew she was sexy but became insanely jealous and possessive to the point where she was annoying. I was glad when she tried to shit test me with another suitor. I told her “You better take him, I’m going overseas again and you know what that means, baby!” Her new boyfriend then called me up pissed off because he got sloppy seconds and a yawn from me about it. I told him “Look, at first I thought no hard feelings but since you’re giving me that tough guy shit, just remember, every time you kiss her that’s what my dick tastes like!”
    Then there was that chick in Hong Kong that I didn’t know was a virgin until I banged her who tried to guilt trip me into marriage for “taking my virginity!” Back to the airport, hurry!
    Another virgin admitted to me that I was first because she wanted me to break her in for her fiancé she forgot to tell me about lol!
    Have fun men but remember, be careful out there!

    1. Another virgin admitted to me that I was first because she wanted me to
      break her in for her fiancé she forgot to tell me about lol!

      You can’t help but be disgusted, at first, when you discover the true nature of women. Shit still makes me wince sometimes.

      1. Even the slowest among men will know if she was from her vagina, from the sheets that look like a Manson murder occurred on them, to her soaking I n a hot tub for the next several days, but she will never forget you for being the first to show her the wonderful world of cock. I admit that was 20 years ago and it is much harder for young men today even if they travel to an impoverished Third World country.

        1. That’s the only reason I would even consider marrying a non-virgin. I don’t know if I can put up with all that blood.

  10. Family breakdown is at the center of modern degeneracy. If you’re just slutting around with the few virgins left instead of picking one for life (if they have the moral integrity to remain virgins in the modern world, they have the moral integrity to be wives), you’re part of the problem.

    1. The (perceived) alpha guys who deflower most of the virgins in high school and women’s early 20’s could generally give a fuck less about wifing them up or allowing them to keep their chastity intact. At the age when many females are still virgins or extremely low notch count, the guys that would actually wife up a virgin lay are the guys who simply are not getting laid, period. One of life’s paradoxes in action.

      1. Don’t send your daughter to school to be deflowered by thugs.
        Don’t send your children to school anyway. It’s an anti learning stupidly creating leftist indoctrination centre.

        1. Implying we could actually control this. Your woman could get tired of babysitting and break up with you and take the kid and throw her in school. Only widows are safe… And even then you would get singled out as an unfit/perverse parent for not sending them.

      2. In contrast to blaming the alphas perhaps we should recognize they are doing us a favor by weeding out the females lacking scruples from thevirgin pool. Unless of course it is rape

    2. This is what needs to be said alot to us men. We harangue women all the time for their terrible choices but we need also be just as hard if not harder on ourselves.
      I work in a popular bar and since I have broken up with my last girl about a year ago I’ve been pretty strong on not messing with the sluts in the bar. Lately though I had been thinking I needed to get back in the mix. This post serves as a reminder that I’m doing the right thing and I need to continue doing this.
      I suppose I need to find women that don’t live the urban life in the city so much. It is hard for both sexes but as men we are stronger and we must labor to have the future that we want and not succumb to the vices of our present day and continue to bring degeneracy on ourselves and our future children.

      1. It all comes down to this: the purpose of sex is as much about creating a family as it is about bringing men and women together. Remove either one from the equation, and you’re stuck with either modern degeneracy (the former) or Protestant/Puritan prudery (the latter).

    3. Exactly, this guy is a fucking douche bag. He is going around emotionally damaging good girls. I hope his fucking dick fucking snaps the next time he goes to fuck a virgin.
      I remember one time i was with a chick she had not had very many partners at all maybe 2 not sure exactly. even when she was wet I had to hold her still so as to not push her up the bed when I penetrated her. I have never had a virgin, hell I couldn’t imagine trying to fit this in a virgin lol. But I have always wanted to try. I waited around till my early twenties then gave up the hunt. I really hope all these stupid fuckers like him die a horrible death you know what they are doing there should be a fucking license for lol. no more than one virgin per man per life lol

      1. Stop blaming the guys. These “good girls” were never good and were emotionally damaged to begin with. That is why they had fucked up standards in choosing guys who would treat them a certain way. They rejected betas out of callous cruelty and you want to sympathize because they got treated callously in turn by the alphas they worshipped? They made their beds.

        1. Thank you. Part of the Red Pill is not taking what women say or represent at face value. No way did a lot of these guys who think they banged virgins really do so. They just got played. Women will pretend to be virgins as part of their game. And it’s usually to take you for as much of your life/money as they can.

        2. Some…sure, but the hymen don’t lie. Plus a lot of it is in knowing the girl. There are ALWAYS tells if you know why to look for.

        1. Why am I the one with a problem? I just told a true story from my earlier life, while judging virgin reapers, for being so self conscious and insecure about their penis they cannot sustain a relationship for very long.

      2. Those virgins, if they really were virgins, fucked the guy. If they were supposedly “saving themselves” why did they jump into bed. I call b.s. on any guy who says he just went out and scored a virgin who was older than 20.

    4. I have deflowered two women in my long life. One is my current wife. The other was when I was a teenager. Most of you would be hating on me for converting a “good” girl into a slut. Most would say I am part of the problem with women because of this action. BS. You need to take off the rose colored glasses. Women are mostly sluts. Deflowering a virgin does not make her a slut; she was a slut all the time, just without the opportunity to lose the V card.
      Let me tell you all about this “good” girl whose V card I punched in my teen years. She had been an on again off again girlfriend for a few years (no sex). Then one day she called me up and made no bones about wanting me to sex her up. It wasn’t a lot of fun; she felt pain and cried. So why did she do it? Because she had tried to seduce Chad and he said he didn’t fuck virgins. So, after that one night she dumped me (again), and was able to go fuck Chad.
      BTW, she remained a slut all of her life. Over the years she has shown up and fucked me many, many times; mostly when she wanted to cheat on her present lover or husband. She used me to get pregnant with her first child after her first divorce, then told me she didn’t want any man having any say over her or her son. She has been pretty much available on call for the past 40 years or more. I finally pulled the plug and broke off all communication with her. On the few occasions where I have to associate with her (due to our son) she spews nonstop hatred, because I shut off the tap, and have 100% rejected her.

  11. I suppose the corollary of this article is, a woman who’s ridden the carousel and had hoardes of thirsty men worshipping at her feet, is going to give any one man exactly zero value. Wifing up such a woman will end in the divorce court, guaranteed.

    1. No, more like it’s stop deflowering virgins and turning them into the women you despise.

  12. There are more awesome unicorns out there than people on ROK realize.
    They are just all with their high school or early college boyfriends.
    If a woman has been attractive for 10 years and hasn’t made anything work, it’s definitely a tell.

    1. Not all of us marry our high school sweethearts or even had one who didn’t evolve into a crazy bitch before being a sweetheart.

      1. Define “crazy bitch”. So many people had partners who they claim were Douches or bitches, but what do they actually mean by this?

    2. Yes, if you want to marry a virgin, find a girl under 20 and don’t have sex until marriage… It’s pretty simple. Men who virgins though honestly shouldn’t try to marry virgins. They are no better than hypergamist women, and they are taking away virgins from men who actually bothered to try to marry to a virgin from the get go.

        1. How is it more complicated? Oh yeah, that lots of dipsticks feel the need to defile women and then act clueless when they can’t find a “marriage quality” woman…

        2. I’m sure you’re swimming in 18 year old virgins bud…
          It’s quite obvious that you don’t have much dating experience. Just look at virginity statistics. It’s quite complicated to find a virgin, especially one without some sort of baggage.
          For the record, most “dipsticks” don’t defile virgins. If virgins have the self restraint to remain virgins, they usually don’t give it up that easily. Us dipsticks are slaying regular sloots.

        3. “Just look at virginity statistics.” The average age for a woman to loose her virginity is 18. This means at 50% of women are still going to be virgins even at that age.
          “Us dipsticks are slaying regular sloots.” Regular sloot were at one time virgins, and if society didn’t push them to be sloot, they would still be virgins. Obviously it wasn’t the nice, smart, geeky guy who took away regular sloots virginity…

        4. It’s actually 17.4 according to NBC news, but close enough.
          You have to take into account the attractiveness of the women. Above average looking women will have more temptation to lose it earlier.
          You’ll probably disagree with me, but a girl who loses her virginity to a serious boyfriend is not a sloot. There is a middle ground between “sloot” and “virgin”

        5. “You’ll probably disagree with me, but a girl who loses her virginity to a serious boyfriend is not a sloot.” I can agree with that. But I was just using sloot as meaning someone who ins’t a virgin because this article is about marrying virgin…
          Too be honest I think it would be a much more realistic goal for most people to aim for less sexual partners and to find a partner with that same condition. Trying to find and then lock down a virgin in this era is just not practical for 90% of the population…

        6. “Trying to find and then lock down a virgin in this era is just not practical for 90% of the population…”
          Wasn’t this my original point???

  13. The problem is the title. If you’re bedding virgins PLURAL then you’re no better than the slutty woman.

      1. Judging by previous statements of yours above, you seem to think that to date means sleeping with her. Add to that you think “serious relationship” gives you an alibi to deflower them and move on.
        “All but three”, huh? Wow, is that what real men do? I’m sure you’d be the first stone thrower on a serially monogamous woman. She only slept with ten guys and was in serious relationships with all of them!

        1. Some chicks put out on dates and some don’t and I respect that. Understanding and controlling the pathology of women is a losing battle. You want to lecture me on the double standard between men and women next? I feel remorse over the three but explain that to my 18 year old self when its game time.

        2. Okay I have a question. It is best practice for males, for their marriages, and for the children that women wait until marriage to have sex. So mathematically, how can males have heterosexual sex before marriage and not “de-virgin” their future brides?

        3. Because they want it to go like this:
          Women choose if you want to be a slut or a wife. If you are a slut you cannot have any standards and you have to have sex with everybody for free. If you are a wife you can only have sex with one man. Also him cheating on you? A-okay. It’s only physical!

        4. It’s not that black and white. The way men act is what causes whorish behavior. For one thing, we spoil women into thinking life is about their satisfaction, this combined with the fact that men are always wanting and trying to get sex or too loose their virginity or that the number of sexual partners is your self worth is what causes that behavior, not some inherent trait inside their psyche.

        5. You have one huge fucking problem with that: There isn’t an excess of men over women. Learn some basic statistics before you start making statistical claims.

        6. Actually, I believe that consistently, there are 105 baby boys born for 100 baby girls. Extrapolate that to the entire human population and there is a huge discrepancy in absolute numbers.

        7. Yes. Women can be celibate too. Also, celibacy for priests only applies if your culture is catholic.

        8. Yes. Not a single Catholic country started this crap. 100% of this SJW madness comes from the anglosphere.

      2. Because every virgin you have sex with is a virgin that someone else can’t have as a virgin at marriage…

  14. This is a prime example of why the location and time of day for picking up chicks is so important. Are you going to find virgins at the club or at the library? During the day or late at night? I also find its about what type of women you attract. If you have a high SMV or are a specimen you are going to attract lots of women yet they may all be carousel riders. Being proactive and going up to and talking to women is the best way to find virgins. I’ve had 4 women throw their virginity at me since it bothered them that they hadn’t fucked anybody and were 19. I accepted 3 of them cause one was too ugly. I repel carousel riders naturally but have to protect myself from clingy women.

  15. More importantly it needs to be mentioned that only virgin women are fit for marriage, no hymen no diamond. That being said it is a waste of time to date any girl you know aren’t going to marry. So don’t waste your time in a serious relationship with any girl who isn’t a virgin.
    You wouldn’t eat a sandwich someone else had already stuck their dick in, why would you date a living breathing person that had someone’s cock in them.
    Do you have higher standards for your sandwiches than you do for your life partners? Think about it.

    1. How do you know if you are going to marry her if you don’t date her? This ain’t India or some Disney movie.

      1. I’m not suggesting only dating your wife, I’m saying not to waste time dating someone you ALREADY know you wont marry.

        1. “Dating” usually sucks for men anyway, once you’ve gotten enough experience with women. Banging the same broad simply gets boring after a while and since most women are pretty vapid and uninteresting in general, I get burnt out on hearing the same stories/complaints after a while.

        1. The second Ace Ventura movie seemed to have a clue.

    2. What I also think a lot of people don’t understand: If you want to have a virgin bride, don’t try to have sex with girls before marriage. There isn’t an infinite supply of women that men can have sex with and then still have virgin brides…

      1. Yes, they are/were. They are/were called prostitutes.
        The old ways were an equilibrium.

        1. So if 5% of women are prostitutes, what do we do with 5% of men? Do we just have them live miserable, sad, and lonely lives?

        2. The excess men used to be sent off to die in armed conflict, effectively. Or just go the degenerate gay route, perhaps.

        3. That is morally wrong. How about males just hold their dicks for a second and wait until marriage. If it is not only expected but NECESSARY that women hold off until marriage, then men can hold off. Failure to do so just shows that man to have a lack of self restraint.

        4. And those prostitutes also spread a bunch of diseases, which is part of the reason why people died so soon back then

      2. Problem is you don’t know her resistance level. You may not try and date her for a year only to have her lose it to some random guy she met at the bar. Especially if she came from a sheltered life.

    3. How would you feel if that “good” virgin girl your after dumped you cuz your not a virgin?
      What if she said “I wouldn’t eat a sandwich that’s been up someone elses vagina, so why should I let a penis inside me that has?”

  16. My first real relationship was with a virgin. But I’m glad I pre-ruined her because that bitch was fucked in the head. So many red flags, if only I’d known then what I know now. (eating disorder, was incapable of doing any household chores, phd student who desperately wanted to be a medical doctor afterwards, workaholic incapable of slowing down for a moment, cheapskate who was always trying to skimp on paying for anything, no self-esteem at all) If I wasn’t young and foolish about women and she wasnt a solid 8.5 bordering on 9 I would have dropped her like a sack of potatoes within the first few dates. So just because she’s a virgin, doesn’t mean she’s a unicorn.

    1. A 8.5-9 virgin PhD student? Which age was she? Which place?
      It sounds unbelievable.

      1. 21 – Melbourne, Australia. Was fat in highschool, lost the weight when she was 18-19, started school really early due to her birthday. And her crippling self esteem issues, shyness, etc led to her only having 1 boyfriend before me who she dumped after a month. She looked like a slightly taller Audrey Hepburn with strawberry blonde hair.

        1. Yeah you never would have known it looking at her, talk about the story of the ugly duckling. You know if the ugly duckling had turned into a psychocunt.

  17. Virginity is constantly derided, it’s treated as a shackle, to be removed at first opportunity. Unfortunately what these women, and to a lesser extent men, don’t know is what they remove is actually denying them is maximizing their future happiness, their ability to pair bond and respect from their future husband. The last being key.
    If a woman cannot respect herself enough to keep her legs closed, a man cannot respect her. The trust he had in her to remain faithful diminishes with each subsequent partner, as she cannot see the value or importance of physical intimacy.
    If a woman cannot respect herself enough to keep her legs closed, her children cannot respect her as a mother. What child wants a harlot for a mother. She brings shame upon them.
    Lastly, we have reached the threshold. Now, a majority of women are promiscuous, leaving little chance of reform. As a society we consider sluts empowered and virtuous women enslaved by the patriarchy. So the big question is how do we break this cognitive dissonance and 1984 style doublespeak? If I have a daughter, I will instill the virtues of chastity. Yes, I will teach her that sex is a weapon, but only the withholding of it. If I have a son, I would teach him to be never accept second best, I would also tell him to find a wife young, mold her early and not to have double standards.
    This current generation is lost and I suspect future generations will be even moreso, so do you part in your own families.

    1. Interestingly, promiscuity has actually declined since the baby boomers. The average baby boomer had 11 sexual partners, Gen X had an average of 10, and Gen Y has an average of 8. Hopefully this trend continues.

      1. It’s probably due to the cultural shift towards social retardation, combined with the obesity epidemic, why people dont fuck like back in the good ol’ days.

        1. Yeah whatever… Typical “the new generation isn’t like mine” bullshit. Or maybe it’s just that your generation is a bunch of whores…

  18. There is a similar dynamic to women who haven’t had a real alpha. Not the same obviously, applies to small town chicks mostly I suspect. If you are the man that makes her an alpha widow she will do anything in the world for you, go to lengths of depravity you cannot imagine, and when you leave go ape shit bonkers over you, for years after you’ve last seen her. Kinda like a virgin only without the guilt.

  19. People who have fewer sexual partners than average have better marriages than people who have more sexual partners. People who wait until marriage are even happier. Even if waiting isn’t a realistic goal, having less sexual partners should be.

      1. No this applies to men too. Anyways, besides that, it’s best practice for men to not I guess you would say “defile” future brides if they want a good marriage. It’s just mathematically sound that men should wait until marriage too…

        1. There’s no evidence that a male’s number of sex partners prior to marriage affects divorce rate in any way whatsoever. You’re wrong / or perhaps just expressing a private opinion that isn’t relevant to the rest of us.

        2. The more partners he has, the higher chance he has children out of wedlock. It’s good to avoid the fuckboys for potential LTR.

        3. It doesn’t connect with divorce rates, but it effects satisfaction with marriage. The reason it doesn’t effect divorce is due to the fact that men just don’t start no fault divorces. Period. Any anecdote you can give me is a statistical fluke…

        4. I just no fault divorced my wife of 10 years. The sole reason is she’s 39 years old and leaving her fertile years. I want a new, teenage wife.
          Anyway, if statistics have nothing to do with it then you’re just expressing an opinion. My understanding, however, is that girls prefer a sexually experienced, mature man.

        5. Spot on. Hypergamy is the key. If women were not looking for the alpha jerkboy during teen years, we would not be talking about this right now.

        6. I don’t envy a guy who wants to “steal” a milennial woman, at least an American 18 year old. Most of them are sleeping with Instagram and Tinder and their IPhone.

        7. Did you marry her with that game plan in mind 10 years ago or did she not age as “gracefully” as you had hoped?

        8. Honestly, I was conflicted marrying a woman who was 9 years older than me. I was 19 and she was 28. She was still hot and fertile, but I was painfully aware that someday I’d look at her and realize, “I could do better than this.” I didn’t know what to do. Turn down a willing babe because of a future problem?! I did what most 19 year olds would do, I suppose. That is, I forgot the future and fucked the babe.
          Yet now – 10 years later – that day I feared has arrived. She’s actually aged quite well, but she’s leaving her fertile years and my eyes have begun turning to younger girls instead. It’s time to move on.
          It was a good marriage. 2 beautiful daughters. It’s been a good divorce, too. We’re still, literally, best friends, and we work together for the benefit of ourselves and our daughters.
          I think MGTOW guys who paint divorce so negatively are wrong. The reason women rip their balls off is because they’re Beta losers. It’s as simple as that. For me, divorce is wonderful. I’m tucking all this experience under my belt and setting off to India to land a teenage Desi bride knowing I won’t fail. What could be better?!

  20. Why should a virgin be inclined to pay an equal share of things? I honestly don’t get that. Can somebody explain the reasoning there? Virgins are typically higher value girls and I’d be happy to pay for everything.
    Also, I can’t find any pictures of David Garrett Brown through Google. If anybody knows where a pic of this guy is then please link me to it here. Thanks.

    1. The point is they aren’t out to do stuff for themselves in the relationship. Women who need chivalry are typically spoiled, and feel like men need to work to make them happy and feel good.

      1. Men DO need to work to impress their female, otherwise why should she choose him as a mate when she has so many higher investing mate options? This is even more true for a typically higher value girl such as a virgin.

        1. Well men can do chivalry, but the point was as a test, how feel about you paying? Women who expect it are selfish… But yes, it in a traditional society, good if men pay.
          On to whether it is actually proper in a modern society, I just want to point out a few things: 1) Unlike 50 years ago, women have jobs, and get payed just as much as men. 2) Why do men have “impress women”? Women expect so much more than men from a relationship. They want men who “are good in bed”, who have money, who “respect them”, who are good looking, who are smart without being nerdy, who isn’t a “creep”, who will listen to them, who are willing to do lots for them, etc. They want “prince charming”. I don’t know if you are a man or woman, but think about all the things you want in a woman. Is it nearly as much as women expect from you? So why is this and why would you think this is good? 3) Most women aren’t virgin, so why both pay for any of them?

        2. Are you saying my expectations or men’s expectations are too low? I never stated what I want in a partner…

        3. I was reading your comment in which you were discussing how much more women expects in a man then men expects in a woman.
          You can expect those things out of a woman, don’t limit yourself.

        4. I never said men couldn’t ask for these things. I am saying that women want someone who doesn’t exist. There is a reason why men have much much higher satisfaction in relationships than women. It’s that men understand that they aren’t perfect and women get someone perfect, women don’t have that understanding of the world…

        5. I can assure you, statistically speaking, that the women who are genuinely interested in forming a long-term relationship with you will NEVER have an equal or higher income than you, so it’s a moot point. Pay the bill or lose the girl. Your choice.

        6. None of those expectations are unrealistic. A man can be smart and not spend his entire day playing League of Legends, a woman can be smart and not spend her entire day fawning over Harry Potter fan fiction while decking herself in WoW apparel. It’s easy not be a ‘creep’, that generally comes with respecting personal space and not making lewd comments. Anyone can be good in bed if they educate themselves, male or female. Money often doesn’t mean being insanely wealthy or even middle class, it just means providing enough to pay your bills and a few extras which can be achieved with even a minimum wage job. Looking good is merely taking care of oneself. In a relationship, listening and doing favors is expected, or should be, for both sides.
          The truth is many people can have all this in a partner and it never be enough because they are unhappy with themselves.
          Most those women already had those things in a partner, they were too blind to acknowledge it.

        7. That women exclusively prefer men of higher wealth and status than themselves is well documented. Google it, lazy ass. It’s accepted as fact in evolutionary psychology.
          The answer to point #2 is the above fact – if men don’t strive to impress her then he won’t land a high value girl.

        8. “None of those expectations are unrealistic. A man can be smart and not spend his entire day playing League of Legends…” No, it isn’t just that. It’s that women have a whole list of things they feel they NEED in a spouse. Sure a few men meet all these things BUT THE VAST MAJORITY DON’T!
          “It’s easy not be a ‘creep’, that generally comes with respecting personal space and not making lewd comments.” When I say creep, I mean males have to be outgoing and very exiting.
          “Anyone can be good in bed if they educate themselves, male or female.” What do you mean by “educate”?
          “Looking good is merely taking care of oneself.” By “taking care of yourself” you mean being muscular. Most men don’t want to spend their whole day in the gym. This is what I am talking about. Women want men to bend over backwards to be their prince charming.
          “The truth is many people can have all this in a partner and it never be enough because they are unhappy with themselves.” This problem is much much higher in women than in men. And it is not because they “aren’t happy with themselves” it’s because they are spoiled and selfish.
          “Most those women already had those things in a partner, they were too blind to acknowledge it.” They had most of those things in a guy who they could have taken as a partner, but they rejected him because he didn’t have that last thing, which usually is that they aren’t extroverted/aren’t masculine enough enough…

        9. “That women exclusively prefer men of higher wealth and status than themselves is well documented.” No shit. But that doesn’t mean they don’t make as much money. Feminists wanted to have jobs and wanted equal pay, and so now they have shitty relationships.
          “The answer to point #2 is the above fact – if men don’t strive to impress her then he won’t land a high value girl.” NO – FUCKING – SHIT! I asked WHY! Why is it that it is like that? It’s because society spoils girls who grow up to be rotten women…

        10. Oh… the answer as to why this is how things are is because humans have evolved to be this way. It’s written in our DNA, man. If you’d like to learn more then research evolutionary psychology and sexual selection. That will answer all your questions.

        11. I’ve mentioned a double standard in shyness before. If a woman is shy, she will be approached still by outgoing men who may interpret her shyness as even a challenge or easy prey. Shy men do not get this effect. The extroverted women will not be interested emotionally in the shy man due to a difference in how a man should according to society act (approaching first), and the shy women will never approach the shy men nor will shy men approach the shy woman.
          By taking care of yourself, I mean aspire not to weigh 400 pounds, shower, brush the teeth, use breath mints after drinking, keep that beard and hair trimmed and styled, wash those dirty shoes, and wear clothes that at least fit and look fashionable. It doesn’t mean having the body of Adonis. You wouldn’t want your lady looking like a fat hag, would you? At the same time, you likely don’t expect Aphrodite.
          It is because they are unhappy. A selfish person is extremely unhappy and no matter how much they are given, they will still want more.
          As far as spoiled, this might go into social class. A women from a middle class family may not want to go with a lower class man, yes… it is about their comfort in their lifestyle. Have you ever heard something along the lines of, “only the poor get to marry for love”? Some divorces do happen for this reason. She’s happy until she realizes what it’s like living in comparative poverty. Many of the prettiest women come from wealth because beauty is money in America.
          By expecting more, those men may not have ended up in a divorce as perhaps they would have seen the woman as unworthy to begin with.
          A pretty face can be a dangerous thing.

        12. By educate… I mean read starting with anatomy and use your brain to decipher the lies. For example, don’t follow advice to blow air in the vagina during oral sex because introducing air internally into the body is a bad idea. Bad ideas will stand out. The internet has a wealth of tips you can learn from without having to actually learn through sex. Change positions up, look for reactions, switch things up, smell good. Read about sex. Make sure she’s wet before you start or keep lubricant on hand. (Condoms are usually lubricated, but cheap brands may not be as lubricated.) Don’t take advice from porn. Never take advice from porn, don’t try out that sideways sex angle you saw in porn or some other weird position. If she lays like a mannequin, demand she put in more effort.

    2. Virgins are probably naturally more inclined to pay their fair share because they havent been psychologically corrupted into absolute rampant attention mongering, narcissism, and entitlement by hordes of worshipful suitors, orbiters, sycophants, alphas, betas, scumbags, etc. A virgin is more likely to pay her own way because she is more likely to still have fairness and empathy and view relationships as a partnership rather than a free handout or a power struggle. Once a woman has taken it to heart that she can get whatever she wants right now, it’s easy to conclude that merely granting pussy access is her fair half of the equation and everything else is the man’s responsibility.

      1. You’re underestimating the power of her instinctive biology. A virgin is, whether she knows it or not, on a quest to find the highest investing mate she can possibly land to take care of her during the burden of childbearing she’s evolved to negotiate.
        D. G. Brown is frankly ignorant and he’s giving advice unsupported by modern science that won’t help you form a meaningful relationship with a virgin. I’m beginning to doubt that he’s speaking from experience, which is why I want to see a photo of him.

        1. In the teenage years the idea of fairy-tale romance dominates a woman who wants a relationship, or at least they claim so. Otherwise they will be a “free spirit” and climb aboard the carousel and do as their instinctive biology compels them to do. Girls late teens to early 20s are far sweeter than those in their mid-20s. Ironically as a woman ages and her beauty declines and she accumulates more baggage, higher notch count, kids by multiple guys, her expectations INCREASE, which I find laughable and preposterous.

        2. Their instinctive biology pushes girls to pair-bond as a primary reproduction strategy. They only become promiscuous as a secondary reproduction strategy after environmental factors spoil Plan A.

        3. It’s established that women invariably become promiscuous unless pair bonded early but the point of contention is that women are more apt to be equal partners when young and uncorrupted, then grow to have far greater demands as their SMV decreases and they give less and have less to offer.

        4. If 16 year old girls are attracted to 20-25 year old men – as they are – then how can they be expected to be equal financial contributors on such dates, anyway? Man, THINK about it, will you? Girls are attracted to inequality. The things you guys are saying don’t add up.

        5. But 16 girls legally can’t date 25 year old men you stoop… Oh yeah, 40+ guy who wants to go after teens. Expect a visit from the Federal Bureau of Investigation…

        6. Age of consent varies in different countries. I’m from New Zealand. Check the age of consent for there.
          Anyway, I was talking about evolved behavior that predates laws. Girls are biologically attracted to older men.

        7. No they’re not. Why are you posting bullshit? Women prefer men at least a few years older than them. Go do some research.

        8. Women are naturally attracted to wealth and status (thus typically older men) as much as they are handsomeness. So what? Is there something wrong with a woman being attracted to a man who’s a competent provider? No.

        9. I’m not interested in arguing it. Females are naturally attracted to males who are at least a few years older than them. This is a well-documented fact. If you don’t realize it then you’re frankly an idiot. You ought to research it more

        10. “You ought to research it more” I have. In fact, I cited a study, you have yet to cite any studies backing your position.

        11. There’s an entire chapter on Female Mate Preferences in the book Evolutionary Perspectives on Human Sexual Psychology and Behavior. I’ve read it twice. It cites dozens of university studies and statistics. I don’t know how to put it clearer: What you’re claiming is divorced from modern science and biological reality beyond any doubt. I recommend you read that book.
          The stupidity of your argument can be highlighted by asking the following question: What would’ve been the evolutionary fate of girls living in ancestral populations who possessed the attraction you describe? That is, how would 12-15 year old girls just entering their reproductive years have fared if, instead of being attracted to competent men aged several years older than themselves, they were attracted to boys the same age as themselves?
          The answer to the question is simple – early teen boys are incompetent fathers, so the girls who mated with them would’ve been at a reproductive disadvantage compared to girls who sought out older, more competent mates and thus they would’ve been out-reproduced by girls who prefer older mates.
          Therefore, it is reasonable to hypothesize that natural selection selected in favor of girls who desired older men and that this attraction has become an evolved adaptation, and indeed modern statistics that I’ve seen back this hypothesis up and it has become an integral part of Sexual Selection Theory.
          What you are suggesting, hypothetically, it is flawed because you’re asking me to believe that natural selection favored girls who, through attraction to equal-aged mates, put themselves at a reproductive disadvantage. Can you explain why I should be inclined to believe such blatant bullshit?

        12. “so the girls who mated with them would’ve been at a reproductive disadvantage compared to girls who sought out older, more competent mates” I am saying they are going after this “competentness”, not the actual age. Also you ignore the fact that early humans would live in small tribal communities, who the parents were would be somewhat irrelevant.
          ” indeed modern statistics that I’ve seen back this hypothesis” You claim to have mounds of evidence backing your claim, yet you fail to provide any hyperlinks to these studies.
          At no point did I ever say they always like men of a certain age group. Females are much less inclined to care about age and looks than males.

        13. Females are highly particular about age and looks, it’s just that they also have to factor in resources used for child rearing ( which eliminates adolescent males as optimal mates).
          Now you’re contradicting yourself, actually. How could females have evolved a preference for high resources and status males without the associated evolution of prejudice against adolescent males who are invariably low on resources and status?! Your theory has more holes than swiss cheese.
          I recommended a book for you to read:
          Evolutionary Perspectives on Human Sexual Psychology and Behavior
          It’s not my job to do anything other than point you in the right direction when you plainly aren’t putting me on my back foot with your flawed hypotheses.

        14. Your idea of who the parents were being irrelevant is also bullshit. Why would people invest heavily in the tribe’s random bastards? What would’ve been the evolutionary fate of people who DID invest indiscriminately between their own children and the tribe’s random bastards? Don’t fathers want to invest heaviest in their own children? And when starvation or violence breaks out isn’t the mother an child’s best hope a dominant husband/father of her child (and not an adolescent whelp)?
          In primitive life a girl’s choice of mate was by far MORE important than it is today, not less.
          You are, again, failing to explain why girls today are attracted to resources and status if these things were unimportant to their evolutionary ancestors. You’re just full of shit.
          How old are you, anyway?

        15. “Why would people invest heavily in the tribe’s random bastards?” They wouldn’t invest in random children – because none of the children were “random”. Human nomadic tribes are generally in groups of a few dozen to a few hundred, you would know everyone in the group.
          “What would’ve been the evolutionary fate of people who DID invest indiscriminately between their own children and the tribe’s random bastards?” Well in a nomadic tribal setting, it meant that females could work together to raise children, and thus allowed males to dedicate more time towards food production. It’s a pretty efficient system.
          “Don’t fathers want to invest heaviest in their own children?” These small groups were fairly egalitarian. As I said early, they were small enough that everyone could work for and together with everyone.
          “In primitive life a girl’s choice of mate was by far MORE important than it is today, not less.” No, it was less. Humans are naturally polygamous. There is usually a high ratio of females to males because males die prematurely more often.
          “You are, again, failing to explain why girls today are attracted to resources and status if these things were unimportant to their evolutionary ancestors.” They were important. I am saying they are attracted to these things, not age. A loser 40 year old have worse odds at getting a girl than say, a 25 year old with his life straightened out.
          “How old are you, anyway?” Old enough know not to give away personally information.

        16. “How could females have evolved a preference for high resources and status males without the associated evolution of prejudice against adolescent males who are invariably low on resources and status?!” Because resources and age don’t correlate 100%. A poor 50 year old is not going to have as good of odds as a wealthy 30 year old.

        17. I’m not talking about 50 year olds and 30 year olds. I’m talking teenage girls choosing between same age boys and men that as are about 5 – 20 years older than them. And since older men are stronger and better hunters or such, the added age DOES correlate to added resources and status. Teenage boys have low status, and they’re also shit fighters compared to older men so they have low dominance. Teenage boys were shit providers and protectors and they still are.

        18. You’re female, aren’t you?
          Look, what you’re suggesting is not plausible. There’s no group raising. That’s fantasy. Yes, a girl’s bastard would be cared for by her brothers and father and uncles, but those men would donate most of their resources to their own children first, and in times of starvation or warfare these children with incompetent or non existent fathers would be the first to die.
          Why do men prefer to invest primarily in their own children and not the underfed runts their sisters birthed after fucking a 12 year old boy? Simple. Men who invested heaviest in their own children out-reproduced men who did otherwise for obvious reasons and thus this has become an evolved adaption.
          Again, you’re saying stuff that’s a scientific impossibility just to suit your feminist ideology. You need to study real subjects, like evolutionary psychology.
          There’s also no reason to believe early humans and their predecessors were egalitarian. Again, that’s made up. The facts suggest pair-bonding is the primarily preferred reproduction strategy. Teenage girls possess enhanced pair-bonding drives, and men possess much sexual jealousy and mate retention tactics. These are evolved behaviors, and they wouldn’t have evolved unless our evolutionary ancestors were encouraging these traits through their own behaviors that led to successful reproduction, duh. It suggests that concepts such as marriage are probably older than homo sapiens sapiens.
          You also misunderstand female attraction. I never said a girl would prefer an older man if he was a loser. Girls are attracted to physical looks, high status (including dominance), and wealth in whatever form the combination of these 3 take. For a 12 – 15 year old virgin girl choosing a mate to begin her first relationship, the ideal mate might be a guy who looks like and is the same age as Alexander Ludwig, yeah, so long as he’s a good hunter and holds respect in the tribe. Wouldn’t you agree?

        19. “You’re female, aren’t you?” Nope.
          “Look, what you’re suggesting is not plausible.” You seem to not understand how pack species work. Humans are a pack species, and if the pack fails to work together and starts breaking up, everyone would die.
          “Again, you’re saying stuff that’s a scientific impossibility just to suit your feminist ideology.” What have I stated thus so far that is feminist?
          “There’s also no reason to believe early humans and their predecessors were egalitarian.” Egalitarian means quite a few things. What do you mean by egalitarian?
          “The facts suggest pair-bonding is the primarily preferred reproduction strategy.” Nope. There aren’t enough males to do pair-bonding in pre-civilization groups.
          “I never said a girl would prefer an older man if he was a loser. Girls are attracted to physical looks, high status (including dominance), and wealth in whatever form the combination of these 3 take. For a 12 – 15 year old virgin girl choosing a mate to begin her first relationship, the ideal mate might be a guy who looks like and is the same age as Alexander Ludwig, yeah, so long as he’s a good hunter and holds respect in the tribe. Wouldn’t you agree?” Yes I would…

        20. Group selection is a fairly failed theory. I’m done talking to you. You obviously have no desire to learn.
          And men can pair-bond with multiple females, duh. We’re a polygynous species.
          I highly recommend you read: Evolutionary Perspectives On Human Sexual Psychology And Behavior
          Bye

    3. Because relationships are transactions exchanging sex for money and security, and if a virgin isn’t putting out or paying an equal share, there is no transaction and therefore no relationship.

        1. Not really. If two people aren’t doing something for each other, there is no relationship and no trust. Even a virgin cannot marry a man she doesn’t trust.

        2. Trust does not come from money or sex. Trust is believing another will not bring harm, that they will not deceive, that they will not betray.
          Your thinking may lead to eventual pain. Perhaps not, but likely so. No money nor any amount of sex is indicative that they will not hurt, betray, or deceive you.

        3. Any stranger off the street isn’t likely to deceive, betray, or hurt you, but that doesn’t mean you have a relationship with them. Relationships are extended mutual exchanges, and if there is an asymmetry early on the relationship is unlikely to stabilize because one party feels they are owed something.

      1. But if she gets pregnant then she has years of mandatory child rearing ahead. Don’t you think it’s possible she’s evolved to compensate for this by limiting access to her fertility to committed, high investing males? The sort of exchange you’re speaking of is Beta slut fantasy

        1. Still, all relationships are transactional. So if a woman wants a relationship before sex, she has to do other things. What you’re missing is that the man is also investing in the relationship, either by providing security (alphas) or resources (betas).

        2. Yes, she should contribute in other ways, such as cleaning your house, taking care of your children, being loyal, and sucking your cock.

        3. >taking care of your children
          >sucking your cock
          why would a virgin do either of those things before marriage?

        4. For many, many years, Women were required to pay a dowry to marry. A famous tale of Saint Nicholas illustrates this in which he sneaks in the night and gives dowry to three sisters upon hearing their sadness that their parents could not afford it, rendering them unsuitable for marriage. The mentality behind the dowry is sure to remain in this age in some.
          The dowry was a payment for a man to court the woman in marriage, virginity was not seen as the grand prize, but a requirement. Divorce laws and ownership of property was way different. The idea was that by giving a dowry, it was insurance in the event of death or divorce in the instance it was allowed. The same monetary value of the dowry was expected to be given to the woman, the man lost nothing he was not given in the first place.
          Now there is no dowry, but women are still given valuable property in the event of a divorce. By not paying to court, the man does not take a risk in courting. If they marry and divorce, the woman still gets her sum. If you pay to court them and they divorce you, you have spent money courting them and money in the event of divorce.
          Women use to pay to marry.

        5. You’re not the kind of guy who thinks ahead, hey?
          Look, I’m 29 years old, Caucasian, and have money. In 2 months I’m going to India to seek out a teenage bride – a Desi girl, hopefully a virgin, and she’ll certainly have no income because of her age. I’m willing to invest so highly in her because I think ahead and I know I’ll get her preggers within months and she’ll be a great wife.
          This is what men have to do if they want to land a virgin and have a rewarding marriage. Yours and D. G. Brown’s comments on equality in a relationship with a virgin – or any female, really – are fucking ridiculous. You’ll never find what it takes to land a proper babe with that attitude.

        6. Security? From what? Do you live in a 3rd world country or something? Oh wait, probably the US of A…

    4. My thoughts exactly, sees to me a traditionally-minded girl would scarcely even think to pay her own way. That strikes me more as something a masculine, power-suit wearing, ambition-driven, likely older and more “experienced” career woman would do, and then expect you to let her run the show in bed as “repayment”.

  21. Women are damned if you do and damned if you don’t. You’re frigid if you don’t put out and a slut if you do.
    Since we have learned that there is no pleasing…we make the decision ourselves. Because you won’t like it in the end anyways.

    1. Men just call you “frigid” to get you to put out. These men are just after sex and don’t have your best interests at heart. If you engage in promiscuous sex then that’s indeed your choice, but you’re reducing the chances of landing an Alpha husband – a true catch to make other girls jealous – with every additional partner you take.

        1. You can avoid promiscuous sex and put your efforts toward landing a partner you truly care for. You can have countless one night stands or only experience sex with people that you truly care about, leaving no feelings of regret whether the relationship ends badly or not. Is that better?
          You likely don’t want men who will call you ‘frigid’ or ‘slut’ to your face either way.

        2. Yeah, I don’t care about making other girls jealous either. I’d rather have a sweet, funny guy who thinks I’m awesome than an @$$hole who thinks he can impress me by insulting me and demanding to be waited on. And looks-wise I’d rather be with Jack Black than Channing Tatum.

    2. Rationalization for being a slut: 8/10.
      Well done cupcake.

    3. No, frigidity is when you are repelled by sex, not when you have enough self-restraint to hold off until marriage. The distinction is obvious, since a frigid woman will either hate whoever she’s with, or have no sex drive. Your logic only holds if a woman lacks any self-control.

      1. I think they are referring to when someone has sex before marriage. I think, I’m not 100% sure.

        1. Right, declining sex in that situation is not frigidity. But maintaining a relationship with a man, not having sex with him, and doing nothing for him would be ‘frigidity,’ or more accurately exploitation. Women like Poola must believe that they have nothing to offer other than sex.

      2. Why is it the woman must have the self-restraint? Why not the man? And is it any wonder if you always practice self-restraint, that when the time comes, you really don’t want sex anyways.

        1. It’s in the woman’s interest much more than in the mans, that’s just nature.
          Men have endless supply of seeds, women have a limited number of eggs and a much higher investment to the outcome of sex by nature/biology.
          It’s maybe not ‘fair’ but then nature rarely is. Women should have self restraint out of self interest/preservation.

        2. Because women are the gatekeepers of sex. A man can’t have (legitimate) sex without a consenting woman. He can try all the live long day, but if the woman has self control and says no, then no sex occurs. A woman on the other hand can have sex anytime simply by walking into a bar and saying “Hey, somebody want to have sex with me”.
          This is your role. Accept it, embrace it, and move forward. If men didn’t constantly pursue women for sex, even if it usually ends up as a futile pursuit, the species would vanish overnight. You are the pursued, so you determine if sex is to happen or not. Deal. With. It.

        3. That still doesn’t excuse men for being mansloots. Women wouldn’t be able to walk into a bar and do that if it wasn’t for men.

        4. Women should practice self-restraint because women benefit from sexual self-restraint, while men do not.
          And if you feel the need to decide when sex occurs and lead the interaction, I can tell you from personal experience that that is a turn-off. Be the woman and let the man lead, even if it’s going too slowly for you. Men can’t be men if women aren’t women.

    4. Marry at 18? let the young single guys do what they want, marry before or at 20 years of age and live happily ever after having as much sex with your husband as possible…
      Not damned at all, unless you really just want to be a slut and then make off with a good provider in the end when you are older and used up…..then rationalize excuses for it all.

  22. This article hits close to home, because after a few years of dating “wild” girls I’m looking to find one that has a low cock count and would make a good long-term partner. The number of cocks a girl’s had inside her is directly proportional to how easy it’ll be to get her into bed. This is fine for flings or ONS, but the more giving she is of her sexuality the more drama and bullshit you have to put up with. It’s like nature’s way of saying sluttiness isn’t good. Meanwhile, more virtuous girls tend to have an innocence and nurturing way about them. Most girls lose this by college, but those who tend to keep the innocent glow about them are more than likely virgins or have only been with a few guys.

  23. I would agree, my ex-wife was a virgin. We married when she had just turned 18 and I was 27. She was IDEAL…conservative, Christian, wanted nothing more than to be a wife and Mom to a good man and have a bunch of kids and stay home and she was incredibly sweet with a great sense of humor also. On our first night I took her to pound town and de-virginized her, as it should be. We did everything right at first. It was very idyllic and fairy-taleish for awhile.
    Then some things changed right after our first son was born and she got post-partem pretty bad and became this monster for awhile, clingy most of the time and totally unaccepting when I wanted to just be off for a bit fishing with my best friend.
    It didn’t help things that I couldn’t shake off my beta-boi ways throughout much of our 12 year marriage, and it was ultimately that which ended it. I gave in too much and let her run things and never put my foot down. One time I did when she threatened to leave years before she actually did so,and I suddenly found all this righteous anger and my new no-shit taking attitude rattled something loose in her and she happily stayed. I was too weak to maintain that though.
    I know this for sure — had she NOT been a young virgin when we married, it would have ended much sooner, and before we had our second son.

    1. Good story to share, no amount of other factors can fix how women respond naturally to frame. Too bad it ended, but it sounds like you learned the most important thing there is to know about women. They demand a certain level of domination to retain the right dynamic and balance in a relationship regardless of other factors.
      The other thing that pops to my mind is now you have the chance to have a second go at it, or just play it chill, which will you do?

    1. I’m a virgin 32-year-old. Still get mistaken for late teens, hand to heart, wonder sometimes if there is something to the idea that promiscuity ages a woman?

  24. “my room mate Lori Is getting paid on the internet $98/hr”…..!ti827ur

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  25. This is so irritating. I’m a virgin at in my mid-twenties. I was ingrained in me to wait until marriage because I have a religious family, but I’m not currently a believer. Also, the fact that most men hit on me with the subtlety of a mac truck puts me off. A lot of guys want to put their hands on you before they even know your last name. I don’t care for that, and I’m not going to be another number.
    But on the other hand, you have society/friends saying there’s something wrong with with you for not bedding everyone or having a million boyfriends. Or guys think that that you’re not interested in sex because you’re not easy, which isn’t at all true. Men don’t understand that you have to trust them first.
    My concern is finding a guy who is willing to wait for a virgin. I feel like that is the true unicorn.

    1. Well be careful… Most of the guys down in this comment section are cognitively retarded and can’t understand the idea that both partners should wait…

      1. Yes, there are many who believe the master key, shitty lock analogy.
        There are 40 apartments in my complex, the master key works for 38 of them. The other two can only be opened with one key respective to each lock.
        A master key cannot open every lock, some locks only have one key and therefore some keys only have one lock.

        1. Key – Dick; Lock – Pussy. A master key can open MOST locks, ie a high quality alpha dick can get all the pussy he wants. however there will still be some locks which only one key can open. Problem is those ‘locks’ are getting rarer and rarer.

        2. Which is why I advocate that the master key should be forced to only use 1 lock rather than go spoil dozens of marriages.

        3. A rigid conservative and relgious society is a prerequisite for this to work. In our current society it is just not a viable strategy for men. If you’re going to have any chance of preventing your hypothetical virgin bride from getting swallowed up by feminism and other nonsense. You are going to need rock solid frame, dominance and highly attuned game. Men as a whole simply cannot develop those traits while remaining virgins.

      2. In pre feminist times, many followed the pattern of both being virgins and there was a large class of simple families who were productive but the males were very beta. The men were honest and hardworking yet they were often blindly servile to the state. They knew their place and were rarely leaders and more likely followers.
        The ruling elite ‘leader’ class on the other hand was and always has been rather a playboy club. In colonial times the elites were very promiscuous to the point where they became eaten up by syphylis and wore wigs to cover the hair loss, except for Ben Franklin. Ben’s hair was his own and he somehow skated the syph epidemic amongst the elites or he could sense or smell a low life ho to avoid. He was the alpha of Europe who bedded many women every time he visited France. He spread his seed broadly, always having a line of fawning high class women waiting for him whenever he travelled abroad. In secret illuminati history it is said that the US actually had three presidents or ‘leaders’ before Washington. Franklin was one.

        1. “In colonial times the elites were very promiscuous to the point where they became eaten up by syphylis and wore wigs to cover the hair loss” Umm… Why do I think this is bullshit? Oh yeah, maybe because you know, 50 odd year old men loose hair from you know, being 50 year old men? Syphilis doesn’t just effect hair, you were FUCKED (pun intended) if you got Syphilis back then.
          “In secret illuminati history it is said that the US actually had three presidents or ‘leaders’ before Washington. ” Oh my god. I am going to cry because of how much bullshit is in this statement!

        2. Just as a defense here, give or take every ruling class throughout most of human history has been extremely promiscuous and typically engaged in all sorts of weird ritualistic perverted sex acts. Every person I’ve asked who could be qualified to describe that has said it was true.

        3. What do you mean by the ruling glass? The aristocracy? The court?
          “typically engaged in all sorts of weird ritualistic perverted sex acts. Every person I’ve asked who could be qualified to describe that has said it was true.” Oh, so by qualified you mean conspiritards…

    2. Nonsense. Your problem is finding a ‘quality’ man who is willing to wait, in fact insists on it once he knows you’re untouched by any other man and spends enough time with you to determine if you’re the quality future mother of his children he’s looking for. I admit these men are very rare, but if you’re going to find one… he’ll be red-pill.

    3. The real question is, how long do you expect him to wait? The liberal modern whore over extends the courtship period via serial monogamy, jumping in the bed of one boyfriend to the next. The traditional modern whore over extends the courtship period via virginity extortion and guilt tripping, “if you love me you will wait……10 years while I get my masters and phd”.

    4. I’m naturally a very romantic type. My experience with dating in about 50/50 times now has been that if I don’t hook up with the girl on the first date, it never happens. I’ve had people who I really liked waited 2+ years for, was always there, much closer to than just a friend etc etc, and in every one of those cases nothing ever happened.
      Conversely, some of the girls I still hook up with have said they never expected to have sex with me, and if that hadn’t been the tone of our relationship from the start it would have never happened.
      So at this point I have way more than enough really cool close female friends (ie. they are happy to cuddle naked with me, sometimes make out, go on lots of trips together, have my back, but just “don’t want to date/have sex”) whom I’ve done a lot to earn that level of love and trust with.
      Because of that, at this point, I’ve basically accepted my previous way of life was a bit retarded, and when I see random girls, if we don’t hook up at the start, I normally just drop them and move on, and I wish I had of not been naive about how things worked for the last 10 years of my life.
      I actually hate that things work that way because I’m an natural romantic, but Western culture has programmed girls to just totally sexually reject guys who try to be friends first, and I now make the friendship after we fucked.

      1. This is so true. If you dont fuck them immediately, you’ll never fuck them at all. Ive been trying to get this through to some of my guy friends who still do the pathetic “I wanna get to know you first” routine with women. Fuck that. Have sex as soon as you can get it, and you’ll “get to know her” the more time you spend with her.
        Furthermore, the girls Ive foolishly taken on “dates” up front are the only ones who won’t put out. Conversely the girls I spend zero money on, have all fucked me right away. So I have a rule, I will not spend a god damned dime on a woman until AFTER sex. Which works out fine because if you don’t spoil a woman they will respect you and put out right away.
        Going on “Dates” is really for established couples who want to have a nice time out together. If you wanna get used and then dropped, spend money on a woman up front. She will view you as pathetic and trying to buy sex from her.
        My female cousin even admitted to me that guys who are willing to wine and dine her up front are the guys she is most likely to use for a nice fancy meal and then tell them to fuck off without giving them any action.

    5. They do exist. I courted my now wife for about a year before we got engaged, and we were engaged for 6 months before the wedding.
      We did kiss and make out a few times but that was the extent before we had our certificate in hand.
      But you might want to look for guys who are a few years older, guys calm down a lot with age.
      Also, you have to understand that it helps if you are very clear in what you look for. My wife told me from the beginning she is only interested if I am serious about getting married. She said that very early on, I think the same day or the next from when we told eachother that we were interested in that way.
      I was ready and that’s what I wanted too, so it only made it better.

      1. I think that being clear about what you’re looking for is key. You have to make sure the guy understands that the reason you aren’t jumping into bed with him right away isn’t because you aren’t attracted to him, but because you have made a commitment to yourself (and your God, possibly) to wait for whatever you are waiting for, marriage for example. If he wants a virgin bride he’ll be happy to have found you, if he doesn’t then you wouldn’t have worked out together anyway.

        1. Absolutely, being open about what one wants and why things happen is the most important thing in this.
          I would add that there are many ways a girl can show she is attracted to a man besides agreeing to have sex with him. I never had doubts about that when I was courting, and dating and later engaged to my wife.
          In a traditional setting there are also many other reinforcing factors being introduced to the family, attending events together, but also simpler things like little gifts, letters, messages etc.
          Trust is very important to build early, and deciding upon and keeping boundaries as well.

      2. I’ve spent time with a lot of super slutty girls who have told me with the guy they married they made him work super hard for sex so he’d think she was all pure, and when I’m around them even after being married, they still act like a complete ho who’s looking for more dick.

        1. I’m sure dupes exist in all categories of things in the world. If you can’t tell the difference I think you must not have been with many girls or just be plain stupid.
          I’ve met and fucked some of the Christian crowd fake virgins, and one was really a whopper, she got a buddy of mine to eat her out on a porch in the suburbs on a dare. Backporch but corner lot.
          Anyway, if you’re implying I’m the dupe, I’m quite happy to tell you that’s absolutely impossible for an interminable list of reasons.
          Foremost of them being she would lose everything we have together, I don’t live in the US and don’t have to worry about that nonsense.

    6. I was virgin until mid 20’s. My husband has been my only partner and I’m very happy I waited. I’m not very religious and there was no pressure to choose like this. Just my introverted and romantic nature.
      This comments are quite funny. There are a lot of virgins in their 20’s, they just don’t advertise it. Introverts rarely trust strangers, so one night stands are out. We don’t go out much, so if we are in a female- dominated industry or education, we don’t even meet men. And we make good settling down partners, as we prefer safety and avoid relationship dramas that some more social people enjoy.

  26. “Your priority should be to find a woman who has either had no sexual partners or very few. This can be a relative thing, depending on the woman’s age (four partners for a 25-year-old is oftentimes better than three for a 20-year-old).”
    Is there a ROK calculator for different age groups? What’s the consensus for 18-24, 25-29, 30-34 and 35+ ?

        1. It’s a very basic principle. Less partners is better, younger is better. The Ideal is late teens and zero. These numbers are expressly for marriageability. If a woman is already out of this scale, but she’s hot and willing you’re not ruining anything for anyone by putting another notch on her bedpost.

  27. Congratulations to him. What you just relayed was one of the coolest stories I have read about a real person in a long time. Sounds like your friend deserves to have such a girl and hope that their situation works out for sure. More likely than not, it just may!

  28. Everyone here is so polite and civilized! Even when we disagree, we don’t turn whiny and bitchy like our libtard counterparts.
    I’ve been a fan of this site since it started.
    I can’t really relate to this (thank God). Finding a virgin is easy when you’re part of the orthodox jewish community. Yes, even if one is a beta male who had never even spoken to a girl before meeting ones wife. The shaming culture is strong with us.

  29. No one can make you feel fulfilled as a person or complete you if you aren’t already complete in yourself. Only you can do that. That’s what i realized. Also a secure person will be a less insecure partner.
    What i noticed is some men think a needy insecure girl will make for a girl who won’t leave you but that is bullshit. And toxic. Be with someone because they want you, not because they feel they need or can’t do better/can’t be appreciated elsewhere.
    Relationships are wonderful and can add enrichment to your life though. It’s also nice to have a companion and someone to express your love to mutually. The craving for companionship and the feeling of needing to love and to be loved is a powerful driving force.
    Marriage is not an end goal for life’s fulfillment, but of course they will tell you females need to get married as a end goal in life or else she won’t be happy. A nice trick to add pressure to females into feeling like they need a relationship with a man to be complete in herself.
    But there is wisdom in traditional ways though. Most of the time i think it is ideal a female to get married. Hormones and our biological wiring will cause us to desire a family. And a stable family needs stable parents.
    Having multiple sexual partners does not give females any benefit. For girls: I would not recommend sleeping with a man who does not commit to you or who doesn’t prove his loyalty and dedication to you. Do you want to remember your first as the guy who only was with you because of your looks/sexuality or the guy who broke your heart because a relationship wasn’t something he was committed to? I know a lot of girls always remember their ex or get feelings for their first even after being in a new relationship years later. Most of the men who promote casual sex are degenerates. And most men who actually pursue relationships with multiple virgins are also degenerates.
    Sex for a girl is also a very powerful way of bonding. Orgasms release bonding chemicals which females are very affected by. That’s why some girls have emotional turmoil when having multiple sexual partners, it affects them emotionally in a negative way especially when those relations end in disaster. Girls: ONLY HAVE SEX WITH A GUY WHO IS WORTH IT. They do affect you emotionally. Whether you admit it or not.
    Also don’t let society or your peers to pressure you or feel obligated to be like everyone else.
    Here is something my dad once told me: “You can always be like them whenever you want, but they can’t ever be like you again.”
    The sex saturated culture also makes sex look like something every young person should indulge in casually for fun, as if it has zero repercussions on someone’s emotional state if feelings get involved. And they even complain about “catching feelings” as an inconvenience.

  30. If another man’s or even boy’s dick has been in that hole, you’ve got to be joking if you try to introduce her as your ‘wife’. ”WIFE”?? Are you kidding? Other DICKS have been in there. Donkey dicks, gorilla dicks, PIG dicks . . ”oink oink”. Keep her around and do as you will with her but please don’t call her ‘wife’. That’s an insult to the both of you. Have her serve cake, fine, but please keep the integrity of our English language. If she’s your ‘prison’ wife, then call her ‘bitch’. If she’s your ‘cuck’ wife, then have her call you the ‘bitch’. But a true blue ‘WIFE’, please let’s preserve the dignity of the word and let’s hold in esteem the purity of the title.

    1. How can a woman call a man who’s had his dick in other VAGINAS a husband?? They could be pig vaginas, dog vaginas, donkey vaginas… lets hold in esteem the purity of the title

  31. I’m very fortunate because my bride is a virgin girl. We’re both christians raised on christian households, and having beem from a family of generations of christians my experience proved that most girls from Protestant Churchs in my country (such as Presbiterians, Lutherans or Baptists) are virgins.
    Of course I don’t know their personal life, but as far as I can judge most of them might be virgins. Anyway by that I mean the girls who are from christian households since born or very little age. Girls who converted late are not in this standard.
    My father is a preacher, he commonly makes personal advice for the members of our church, and most of them are couples. For one way or another I often ended up discovering the personal secrets of the members of my church. Two types of couples went to my house to get advice: those who had marital problems, and those who were trying to help a couple of friends who had marital problems. From what I could tell while living with my parents, the most successful were those couples where the woman, or both, were married virgins.
    Even my father often explained to these couples that chastity before marriage was important in order to keep the purity of mind of the couple in marriage (of course under the Christian dogmas both men and women should keep chastity until marriage).

    1. Still men and women are different. The man is the ultimate ‘head’ and that must be preached for the serman to be complete and without anything ‘deleted’ or taken away. The whole truth and word. Women and men being different though, translates to the woman must be KEPT pure and the man as leader must keep himself. ”Do not cast thy seed into the fire” man. That means an asshole, an animal and God forbid an animal’s asshole! Don’t cast ye dick in woman’s pussy lest her pussy controls you. Learn to thoroughly control a woman first before you penetrate her and lay with her. Then you have many fold more options and a greater edge in choosing your woman. I also believe if you can control two woman and they be virgins and be your loyal wives, then so be it. Amen.

    2. Though there is a difference between someone who has truly lived in Christianity their whole life and someone who simply claims to be a Christian.

  32. Hell yeah, this is the right stuff!
    All the points are true for me.
    I married the one I liked the demeanor etc of best, and haven’t regretted it.
    The one thing I would point out is they usually don’t put out until the wedding night obviously, but it’s worth the wait. For me it took a bit longer than a year in total but we were engaged about 6 months, the other part was more courtship.
    And as she is healthy and unspoiled it took less than 2 months from wedding night to growing baby bump ;-).

  33. It’s also very important to understand that once you take the decision of locking down a virgin and making a family you absolutely have to clean-up your act. Get rid of all of your deadly habits or they will be part of your family as well. Knew a guy who was a drunken fool, got married to a lovely girl, alcohol became a part of their life with fights etc etc, then again, a guy who enjoyed a little too much poon, got married only to cheat on his wife every ocasion he had, guess what, wife found out and divorced his ass. I am all for the manly virtues but before demanding more from life we need to clean-up our act and be deserving of what we will conquer and demand, otherwise we only conquer to squander.

    1. Very good point and true, all guys looking to do this should clean their act up. That said its still something one should do when getting married regardless of ones wives notch count. Getting married is starting your own family, of which you as the man are the both the leader and figurehead, and should act accordingly.

  34. Had a 25 year old virgin a couple years ago that I deflowered and let walk away. Still kicking myself in the ass to this day.

    1. As you should. I got a few virgins but declined as I wasn’t going to wife them up.
      To me it’s time to pull the ejection seat handle when some random starts stammering that she isn’t experienced. Bail! Bail!
      The one I did, was on the wedding night with my wife.
      I don’t have issues with random banging notched chicks but I do honestly and firmly think that virgins are for marriage and motherhood, not just a few moments of fun and busting a nut.
      I don’t think of them in any way the same actually, I treat them as different species. A girl who kept herself pure does truly deserve and warrant serious commitment from a man. If you ain’t giving that, you should also not be taking away her only valuable asset.

      1. That sounds very honorable, as does JohnnnTheSecond’s post below. Amazing, all it takes is talk of virgins and the “he-man woman-haters” go all gentlemanly. Maybe the whole “screw women (literally and figuratively)” attitude is just a response to the modern woman’s sluttiness, could it be?

        1. I think so. I’m inclined to think that men have a very strong protective instinct toward parties we see as worthy of it. I’m also thinking a lot of the negative attitude comes as a response to the ruined state as seen by men, in so many women these days. It’s not per se sluttiness but the whole attitude towards sex, relationships and men that is off putting often.
          I think many men who are not consciously aware of the societal effects of this kind of behavior and attitude still do know on some deep level how destructive it is, and this brings stronger backlash against the symbols of this, mostly feminism, SJWS and to some degree women in general.

        2. I would agree, your typical slut is just like they were 50 years ago, not worth your time outside of the sack. Now, 70-80% are sluts. The fewer chaste women are well worth your time and effort, although harder to come by. I am hoping the pendulum swings back by the time my kids get to be in their teens.

  35. Virgins can be whores as well. The fact that her hymen is intact does not mean his other orifices are…..I knew a girl some time ago, technically speaking she was a virgin, but her skills giving blowjobs were even better than those of a professional hooker.
    Did she learned that eating ice cream? I dont think so…

    1. Keep in mind though that using the hymen is unreliable, it can break from bicycle accidents, falls, etc. and many women don’t even have them present anyways. It wont even necessarily break the first time either…

  36. I don’t think people are ready for this quite yet. It can be dangerous information in the wrong hands. I’ve already seen what can happen when people think they mean well go out, get Asian wives, give birth to children who grow up with mental problems. They wanted children, feminine wife, family values that come w/ Asian culture, but the end result was disaster. It also gave way to sexpats and sex tourists. They used that information to corrode the culture and the people in those countries.
    So I say, before you sick the manosphere/RP’ers on unsuspecting virgins (serious marriage minded ones deserve the world) you need to create a culture of quality high-class men who are deserving of a quality wife.
    Let me also remind you that there are guys that have wrecked virgins in these foreign countries based on a poor understanding of customs, values, tradition, etc. It’s not a question of *if* it’ll happen, but rather what can we do to learn from it as it’s already happened.

    1. So what exactly to you constitutes a quality high class man if I may ask?
      I’m with you on this in general, but I should add that all Asian/European marriages I know of personally seem to be working fine.
      I’m married to an Asian girl myself.
      I have posted several times on some of the ‘Asian girls are best’ type articles here what I think is the most important in order for things to work out.
      Like learning, respecting and to some degree following aspects of their culture and customs etc, getting to know the family, and other things about LTR game that are different from westerners.

      1. Not being morally bankrupt? Possessing admirable family values (to practice and pass down), being a sufficient provider for the family, staying away from questionable behavior, etc. It should be quite obvious what women want in a good husband. I remember one British white girl that married an Asian guy, I asked her what drew her to him, and she said three short but powerful words. He wasn’t degenerate.

        1. To me there is a simpler kind of way. It does include being generally speaking decent and a good provider etc, but before you get engaged sit her down for a couple of hours and tell her honestly what you have done in your life that you most remember, and why, and let her ask questions. I mean both the good and the bad, and let her choose to be with you or not.
          That’s kind of what I tried to do but some things about my background my now wife simply doesn’t want to know about.
          She will find out anyway if you marry her, so hiding stuff isn’t a good way to go.
          If she then chooses to still stay with you, you should be good.

        2. Eh, that applies more so to people who has had checkered pasts. That wouldn’t really apply to someone like me as I haven’t done anything questionable towards anybody. Are there things that I have to share? Sure. That I’m not proud of? Sure. But it either survives or doesn’t survive the relationship. If someone doesn’t accept that I went through depression and did not do well under economic hardship then so be it.

        3. What she meant was he goes to work at 6am comes back at 6pm and hands over his above average but still moderately sized paycheck he’s been slaving so hard for…..
          Women have a funny way of redefining the meaning of words based on what they want or percieve as useful to themselves. In this case “He wasn’t degenerate” could simply be her way of saying “he’s a good Beta”, “He’s pays for shit and isn’t attractive to other women so isn’t a flight risk”, etc which it’s not really in any mans interest to actually be, and which may make him reliable and useful to a woman, but not truly attractive or respect worthy.
          I take it if a non-degenerate provider for kids was what she really wanted all along, that she was also a virgin at the time of Marriage, at which time she was no older than 19 years old….otherwise it’s very likely that she has simply defined “non-degenerate” as what she percieves to be useful to her now that she wants to marry and have kids.

  37. This of course doesn’t work mathematically. If you keep fucking virgins they cease to be virgins and perhaps become jaded, cynical and skeptical. In that sense the pick up artist who wants only to fuck virgins is a social hypocrit and socially destructive.
    Answer me that riddle.

    1. A PUA who does virgins ONS should be taken behind the shed and shot IMO.
      That seems to jive with the opinions of the rest on here, did you not read any comments before posting?

    2. Glad to know I am not the only who figured this out immediately…
      Men should either go down the traditionalist route and stay virgin until marriage (with a virgin bride) or if they do the PUA shouldn’t expect a virgin bride. You can’t keep your cake and still eat it…

  38. I believe this goal is almost impossible to meet unfortunately. The feminine imperative has almost completely engulfed every layer of society and its organisation. The best potential long term girlfriend I ever had came completely from outside the western culture. I was just too young, dumb and still blue pill to see it.

    1. Friend did that years ago with a then 20-year-old bride and he’s very happy he did. Be advised that you need serious cash. Her parents and other family members lost damn near everything to a typhoon. Topside, he has a loyal hard-working wife about half his age and smart and cute children. Age hasn’t been a friend to her looks, but age is never a woman’s friend and she’s gained only a little weight since their marriage.

  39. Become the sort of person you want to marry. If you want to be a player, there are plenty of bar hags out there. However, if they are reasonably good looking and still a virgin, you can bet they have strong moral convictions, and would expect the same from you. David’s suggestion of going after religious girls and get them to leave their church is not wise. If a girl is willing to flake off their religion, they will be more likely to drop their morals in other aspects of a long term relationship. Typically, someone who turns away from religion will become less moral than someone who never has known religion.
    I became a Mormon when I was 23 in college, in a community where about 1/10 are Mormon. I took 3 different girls in a row that were Mormon, only to find out on the date. I came to the conclusion that there was something attracting me to that sort of girl. They were more honest and traditional, and I wanted that. After some serious introspection and finding God in my life, I decided to take the step. A few years later, I married a woman who was a virgin right up to our wedding night. We now have six kids, attend church every Sunday, and have a happy, traditional marriage.

  40. Last girl that told me she was a virgin gave me an STD. You need to polygraph these hoes, because anything that comes out of their mouth is a lie…

  41. Ive noticed that hot girls who have a longterm boyfriend from the age of 16 never get that bitchy attitude from all the guys chasing her during her peak hotness.

  42. Sick of looking at these disgusting advertisements on every pucking page. Do people actually click on this garbage ?

  43. Some of y’all in here are talking like chicks. If a bitch is causing problems man the fuck up and knock her bitch ass the fuck out.
    She starting some shit with your family bitch smack her ass. And tell her to fucking make dinner and be prepared to fucking suck some dick later. I have been reading a lot of this shit lately, because i believe in the movement. but holy fucking shit, fuck all this empowering women bullshit she can control your life and entrap you. smack that bitch if you need to. And i swear to god if one of you comes back and says you are scared of your woman physically and your not physically impaired

  44. Some truth to this. My wife was a virgin when I met her – as was her sister. Seriously – I got to listen to my wife explain to her sister how birth control really worked before the sister’s wedding night… at age *28*. 28 year old women who don’t know how BC works and are screwing around end up pregnant pretty much100% of the time. She did have a boyfriend or two before, but things never went pass kissing apparently.
    And yes – both my wife and her sister were brought up in a religious family. They didn’t like to talk about their status with people because after a certain point, you are looked at weird, if past 23 you haven’t had sex before. What they were taught was to look for long term relationship success indicators – and that behaviors associated with players were seen as “low value”. They were on team “looking for a husband” not “not looking for a good time tonight”.
    That said, marrying a virgin isn’t a guarantee of anything. You still need game, you still need good relationship skills. Athol Kg
    1. Keep your job and career on track. Most women aren’t gold diggers, but they are least silver or copper diggers.
    2. Fix things around the house without her nagging you.
    3. Lead and make decisions
    4. Have patience and detachment with her and your own emotions. Or in game terms “frame”.
    5. Have a happy, positive attitude.
    List can go on – but LTRs are hard work.

    1. Very good, and true.
      My wife was also looking for a husband and very upfront about it, which suited me fine as I was ready for it. So we quite soon also exchanged the relevant information about ourselves to make sure we are a match.
      The important points for a man are his profession, how stable it is, his income, and habits/hobbies. To some degree education but it’s more income/profession if you are established. For the woman it’s past history, family, education and manners basically.
      Past history for a man is only relevant in terms of profession. For a woman it is important for a number of reasons which will be obvious to most.
      To me the west for the most part is not serious enough about marriage. People are simply too selfish and make up this bullshit about it being about passionate love lol. It’s about children.
      I think the 5 points are the core of what should ensure a marriage works well.
      I don’t equate cohabitation with marriage, in most ways other than yeah you live in the same house with your girlfriend.
      I have done both and there is a fuckton difference between them for me at least.

  45. Convert to Islam LOL, most of our women are long haired attractive virgins. I was a virgin when I was married. You convert to the religion, you can marry the women without any trouble and the local mosque can help you out. LOL. Most Muslim women are virgins because their mosque didn’t get cuckservative and the leaders didn’t cuckify the mosque to fit into a regressive SJW world.
    Other alternative, pair churches up with mosques, find how mosques, orthodox churches are still red pill that haven’t changed and survived the passage of time, and rebuild and red-pill the church so that you have many marriage material young women. If you haven’t noticed, most criticisms of Islam is how it’s not blue pill, and that its’ too red pill for cucks to handle – why can’t you rebuild Christianity so that the left hates on them but you retain your youth and happy families?

    1. Islam might be a viable alternative if it didn’t have such a totalitarian bent. To me it’s not a religion, it’s a religiosociopolitical ideology, and I have discussed this with Muslims I know and most agree or avoid addressing this issue.
      To me it is not that simple, I saw a woman, European convert in hijab at the beer isle in the supermarket this evening actually. Just funny anecdote.
      It seems to me that the biggest issue for non Muslims with Islam is that a Muslim basically must protect another self professed Muslim from non Muslims. Which in practice is in action and material aiding terrorists and criminals sometimes.
      I know a lot of secular Muslims, but they occasionally still hang out with guys who are or associate with bad guys.

      1. You know being drunk is a sin in Islam, drunk between prayers, but not one beer. The religion is practiced in an authoritarian way much the same as Orthodox Judaism and Christianity are practiced in the harsh climate of the Middle East. Soft people don’t survive there. Muslims went soft in the Baghdad Caliphite and Ummayid Calphite, got invaded by barbarians. Ever since they learned their lesson not to have SJWs and gay orgies and drunk parties. In Europe, Muslims are much harsher and stricter as a reaction progressives and SJWs.
        West European, poor you, you got all the rejects of the Muslim world. West European Muslims are so fundamentalist, and the secular ones are meh. If you are going to find normal Muslims, they are in Eastern Europe, around practicing Christians and pretty chill. Muslims in an SJW left society with no mainstream right wing – the children of the immigrants are pretty nuts. Why? They leave the moderate Islam of their parents to become an SJW. Of course being a progressive SJW doesn’t work and they compare their miserable lives to their parents … but no longer have a relationship with their parents or mosque from all the rebelling and fighting. So they look to the internet and gravitate
        I am a Sufi myself, I have Wahabi friends, some respectful conservative red pill atheist friends, Christians, Hindus, etc. but like European second generation Muslims are too much so I stay away from them. They don’t follow the book, they just want to be gangster.
        War is tough, lived through it, learned why we need the strong discipline. Islam also gives women more responsibility and rights – so the downside is housewives and soliders get the same punishment but when a woman works as a nurse in battle – the Prophet Mohammed dictated equal pay for equal work. So when spoils of war were divided, female nurses and male and the occasional female soldier all got an equal share. Like in Western Europe you don’t have Islam, just radical Islamism – Ukraine has a nice Muslim community, but their Christian community is just as lovely.
        Basically Cucks can’t have nice things, can’t have multiculturalism, beautiful women and fast cars – it all goes wrong for cucks. You guys need to really bring back the old school church. I recommend Greek not Roman Catholic or Christian Orthodox. Roman Catholic has a pagan modification to mix politics with religion, which always leads to some cuck reformation or secularism or some cuck move. Politics is politics, religion is religion, mixing the the two is too much power in one hand and leads to corruption. In Canada, Muslims tend to hang out with Poles, Ukrainians, Hindus, etc.
        Secular Muslim girls rebel against religion so their notch count is higher than secular white girls.
        The socio political ideaology has worked quite well, since the fall of Baghdad people learned their Sodom and Gomorra lesson, and society managed to survive through war and peace and you have happy and healthy families, communities who can fight as opposed to SJWs. Sometimes when living next to SJWs they get overzealous about faith, saying maybe more is better than less and I’m like nah, that’s like adding a tail to a human, why, Prophet Mohammed once said everything is good in moderation.
        The result is the Gulf countries didn’t have the refugee flood Europe had and they screen their refugees, don’t forget include ones from Yemen too. I haven’t heard of refugees raping women on the streets in Muslim countries. Unlike Europe Muslim countries have to provide for their own security, while Europe depends on Southern Baptist Christians from the US for it’s security. So when you depend on yourself for your safety of your family and don’t have America’s nukes to protect you and America is fickle with you, and rely on yourself, you don’t have the luxury to be open like Western Europe. You need discipline to survive.
        Religious people aren’t scholars, their job is to put bread on their families’ table, not answer the questions of a hipster philosopher. For that you have to go to a scholar or philosopher.
        Western European second generation Muslims are even infamous in Saudi for their extreme views. I think to see normal Muslims, maybe get out of Western Europe, visit Ukraine or the Middle East. I judge a tree by its fruits; the ones who look happier than SJWs are the normal ones.

        1. Long way to not actually answering my question.
          I’m curious, if you are Sufi, how to you get along with wahabists? I’m genuinely curious.
          Thing is very few things have captured me as much as Sufi thinking.

        2. Sufis are considered “heretics” by most wahabis..and even sunnis…pity – it’s most transcendetal branch of Islam…but, having saints and dancing for the Glory of God seems not to go well with the rest of fun-loving crowd…))

        3. Yay! My girl Maria is back!
          I love Sufi philosophy…some of my favorite books are the writings of Idries Shah. Amazing writer.
          As for church, I have been hanging out with some nice Liberian Pentecostals…Very refreshing outlook. The wife of the Deacon gets up there and SCREAMS at the women “Ladies you must help your husbands be strong…he is the man of the house! You must build strong families for the future!” — very refreshing.

        4. I actually get most of my support from Saudi, the war in Yemen really changed their perspective. My family is Sunni, but I have a lot of Salafi friends. They do have an issue with me that I am a bit too red pilled and need to chill sometimes.

        5. War. The wahabists got attacked by Iran … then they realized it’s us or ISIS & Houthis are a creation of Iran and now Iran bought off Alqaeyda and the Taliban. Basically my people are armed and not attacking Saudi and we have a mutal enemy Iran who is attacking us and also have a problem with cucks in the west abandoning us for terrorists and dictators. Prior to the war in Yemen, we were enemies. Now Saudi realized who their friends were all along.

    2. That’s probably the first time the words “Convert to Islam LOL” have ever been strung together.
      Quick question though, if I convert to Islam I can’t drink; what will I do to unwind from the stress of being married? 🙂

      1. first of all you are not supposed to be drunk during prayers, so some interpretations say a beer is okay. The culture handles other way to release stress, beauty, art, music, dance, cooking, telling jokes, romance, all sorts of things. There are lots of creative ways of unwinding. My husband isn’t stressed out. But you shouldn’t join any radical European form of Islam – too many youth instead of joining skinheads in their reaction to SJWs make up extreme fake versions of the religion – so stay away from the western European Muslims and the rest are fine. I am saying this as an Arab.
        In western Europe – people see SJWs, almost no right wing and go crazy, either become an insane SJW and assimilate, or do that, hate it and then search for far right answers. Go visit Jordan and you’ll find a lovely wife and be very happy.

        1. Ha ha I’m not religious, nor do I want to get married. I was mostly making a joke. I do like to drink though 🙂

    3. I would become a Sufi, they seem a very well balanced bunch…I would love a nice Muslim wife…the search continues. 😉

  46. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1993/04/dan-quayle-was-right/307015/?version=meter+at+4&module=meter-Links&pgtype=Blogs&contentId=&mediaId=&referrer=http%3A%2F%2Ftwentysomethingmarriage.org%2Fthe-great-crossover-the-why%2F&priority=true&action=click&contentCollection=meter-links-click
    Long link and even longer article but it has some extremely interesting data points split in a way that are very useful.
    For example in 1990 only 31% of first marriages with children would at some point end up divorced.
    This right here is very important. So the divorce rate when applied to first marriage of both partners and one where there was no prior cohabitation would be sub 10% most likely.
    Also, if you want children I would assume you also care about their future, and unless you want to triple the chances of teen suicide, criminal behavior, drug dependence, teen pregnancy etc in your child. Marry first, then start family. This modern bullshit is proven to not work. Children born to anything other than stable married parents do worse. No argumentation or feelz can change that fact.

  47. Just know that, as with anything in life, there might very well be a trade-off. My wife was a thirty year old virgin when I met her, and remains a fervent nationalist, at least when it comes to her own eastern European country. Nonetheless, after a rather long courtship, it quickly became clear that she managed to remain intact, not necessarily because of some drive to preserve a sense of purity, but because she almost entirely lacks a sexual appetite (she is a college professor). The best of companions, but . . .

  48. >Dating a virgin of legal age
    This is why men marry pillows. If you want to pursue a fantasy it may as well be a fantasy you are aware is fiction.
    I think 99% of women have lost their virginity before attaining legal age. They give it up to a bunch of guys who don’t respect the law and then protect them.
    In the case where you have a protective parent who keeps her home at all times to prevent this, it will instead be a family member who fucks them instead.

    1. They are out there, you just need to know where to look, and how to look. Couple pointers:
      1) Become a man with integrity, become committed to your church, volunteer and stop any vices.
      2) Many churches have extracurricular activities and programs. Attend them and be proactive in good causes. Good women are within those programs.
      3) Dating is a different ballgame, sex is off the table. Because it is off the table, first dates are easy to get. If you have the reputation of being a decent guy, girls will accept the invite. To them, it is an enjoyable evening with no commitment. Take lots of girls out, make the dates cheap (no more than $20), otherwise you will end up broke within a year. Keep the dates light and public (mini-golf, dancing, zoos, board games with friends, museums, etc). Even if you are taking a certain girl out repeatedly, continue asking other girls out on dates, their jealousy and competition will keep them interested. If you go beta and zero in on one girl, she will lose interest. I did many double dates with a friend of mine. One thing, make sure they know these are dates, not hanging out. It is very, very easy to be friend zoned. To do this, the traditional dating etiquette is necessary. Dress up, and ask her to dress up for the date.
      4) Later on in the relationship. If she wants to go to second or third base, don’t. Tell her that you are waiting for marriage. Do that, and she will be yours. She will admire the self restraint. I almost lost my fiance because we made out in swim suits even though she wanted it. She was scared she would offend God if we continued that path.

      1. “I almost lost my fiance because we made out in swim suits even though she wanted it.”
        HAHAHAHAHA

        1. True story. We went swimming at this reservoir and we got into it a little heavy. She almost called it off later on on the way home. Because of circumstances, we couldn’t marry for awhile and she wanted to take a break to avoid having sex. She was probably doing a little emotional manipulation like girls do, but we remained celibate until our wedding night. Anymore, she is fairly wild in bed, (5-7) times per week, although it took a couple years to get her that way. I got a keeper, she is the traditional wife who cooks, cleans, takes care of the kids, etc. We couldn’t be happier.

        2. Mormon, yeah? There are some treasures in the gene pool of conservative Utah, if you can avoid the frumpy clothes and awkward manners.

  49. A self-respecting man should try to find one of the few good women there are out there, rather than just complain about the sluttiness of females in our society in general. This is a very important point that this article makes — thank you!
    Nothing wrong in playing around with the cheap girls for cheap pleasure if you are so inclined, but if you hunt for sluts then what you will catch is… sluts. Obviously, you won’t find a good future wife and mother of your children in a bar after midnight.

  50. Here’s one anecdote against virgins (or maybe virgins who are 8 to 9/10): this 25 year-old smokeshow (a 9?) at 16 yrs old and a virgin hooked up with a 22 yr old guy via church and ends up having kid. Is now a horrible, despicable mother who’s virtually abandoned her kid for fame and I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s horrible in bed.
    XXX.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3523013/Model-girlfriend-One-Direction-s-Niall-Horan-abandoned-7-year-old-son-pursue-Hollywood-fame-fortune-claims-ex-husband.html

  51. hmmm… I thought the virgin was for the long term. If you’re running through more than your fair share, you’re just doing to these girls what others have done before. You’re turning them into skanks because you’ve opened their sexuality and haven’t turned them into your wife. (Think they’ll be content with monastic life after you’ve turned them on?)
    Not impressed. Very piggish attitude.

  52. Why is it that when men start talking virgins, the Red Pill and all the sense it’s given us goes right out the window? It’s like when you hold your checkbook up to a girls nose gets her dazed and wet. Same thing.
    If a girl truly, really, honestly is a virgin past 20 – And remember, a lot of girls will SAY they’re virgins, and let you de-flower them, but they set it up so you screw them during their period and pretend they lost their hymen.- she’s socially disenfranchised and running with the Kook Crowd. So when you de-flower her, you end up with a psycho who gamed you into a relationship so as to use you for all you’re worth.

  53. I’m thoroughly intrigued by this site, only discovering it yesterday. I am lapping up alot of the articles and seriously enjoying reading comments about what men actually feel about women. It’s a serious eye opener.
    Bravo!
    You will be surprised that us ‘sistas’ believe ourselves to be the victims especially when it comes to relationships. Alot of this ‘slutty’ behaviour you believe belongs to most women is our way, I believe, of protecting ourselves from being hurt by your treatment of us. That is all. We want to be tough so you can’t see how sensitive we really are. We’re all little girls wanting our ‘daddy’. That’s what I assume. I’ve never had bad experiences with men and slept around so I wouldn’t actually know, but I’m going on experiences from fellow females.
    I also agree that western women are all being brainwashed on a daily basis. It didn’t help that girls in my class ( I went to an all girls secondary school) at 11 years old were reading magazines about the best sex positions and by 15 alot of them had dropped out of school to have babies.( I grew up in the UK where the teenage birthrate is the highest in western Europe).
    As a mom, 25 years later, I have to listen to the french education minister ( currently a woman! I live in France now) tell parents that gender doesn’t really exist and listen to t.v adverts selling sanitary towels tell girls that they too can act like boys ( images of a female goalkeeper playing football). Christine and the Queens, a popular french singer has a song called ‘It’ to illustrate this. Seriously, you have to feel sorry for us, but by the general atmosphere on this site I assume 99% of the readers don’t.
    It is currently difficult to sense amongst men today a general aversion to the feminism that is being forced in our faces everywhere. There are no general surveys, no daytime talk shows where men are asked’ ‘What do you think?’ so the average woman knows nothing of frustrations shared by RoK readers.
    Bells started a ringing in my own personal life
    when I went back to work after my third child started school. I had some difficult months with my husband. He wasn’t very pleasant to me. A year later I gave up work and now I homeschool. He isn’t the same man now as he was then! He has made it very clear that home is for me and work for him.
    I feel very fulfilled as a wife and mother since deciding to stay at home. Some female readers may not take me seriously when I say this but you had better believe it!
    I watched the 1970s version of The Stepford Wives a couple of years ago. This is a very important film. I think the feminist slant is obvious but I applaud its deeper themes. The female protaganist is actually happier at the end of the film, even if she is a robot! Male readers may be interested in a website http://www.stepfordwives.org. There is a growing female anti- feminist movement.
    I was once one of those virgins you mentioned in this article. On one of my first dates with my then-boyfriend -now husband, ( I met him as a tourist in Paris, 14 years ago. He was a waiter with a nice face, good manners, funny, didn’t have a lot of money but he had a cute puppy that he bought after splitting up with his ex of 7 years after she dumped him for someone else. A few months down the line I was soon to find out that he was a Bad Boy and understood why his ex left. He tried to dump me so he could be a Bad Boy without being hastled about it. I wouldn’t let him. The rest is history), I was embarrased when he asked about previous boyfriends. He’d lost his cherry at the tender age of 12 I later learnt. I had nothing to report and I felt uncomfortable. I had previously read that men preferred girls with ‘experience’. To learn this is all a big lie will be devasting to many women across the world with western attitudes. Anyway, my future hubby waited a year and a half before I gave it up, after a huge fight. We married 6 months later.
    I asked him recently if he ever told his friends that I was a virgin when we met. ‘Oh yes’, he replied,’ And none of them believed me.’

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