Should Men Strive To Become An “Alpha Provider”?

Most of you already know what’s in store for a “beta provider,” a man who wifes up a slut without understanding the true nature of women. By seeing her as virtuous and honest, he sets himself up for being controlled in a miserable marriage that ends in a divorce, leaving him financially destitute and unable to maintain custody of his children. Any man under the age of 40 who marries a woman today with a promiscuous background has no excuse for such a mistake because there have been ample warnings on the internet for well over a decade. With ROK having been in the news multiple times, a man has certainly been exposed to our ideas more than once.

By refusing to take on the beta provider role, it may seem that the only option left for a man is to be an “alpha male,” a leave-’em-and-forget-’em stud who maintains large harems of women that please him on demand thanks to his hard frame and aloof attitude. His knowledge of the true nature of woman, however, causes him to develop a visceral opposition to marriage, and it’s assumed that an alpha male stays in the game indefinitely.

But there’s a problem. What if you’re an alpha male who wants to create a family, not from loneliness or needing a woman, but to be a father in the traditional ways of the past? You would have a steady income where you can maintain a patriarchal household with a submissive wife who mostly stays at home and understands your leadership role and the parental involvement necessary for raising your children. Is it possible for this “alpha provider” to succeed in the modern world?

The term alpha provider was first used by Donovan Sharpe in January 2015:

He brings home enough bacon to provide his woman the kind of lifestyle that gives her validation and comfort, as well as providing for their offspring. Keeping himself in optimal physical condition assures his woman of good, masculine genes making her willing to bear as many of his children as he wishes.

The fabled Alpha Provider is the captain of his ship and has the genuine respect and adoration of both his woman and his children. He does not tolerate foolishness in his household and is quick to punish such shenanigans. But he is equally bountiful whereas he rewards his woman for the nurturing of his brood, her sexual loyalty, and the upkeep of his domicile and property. Though it took him quite a while, his patience and red pill wisdom allowed him to successfully find a woman worthy to be his first mate.

A man such as this is the object of every female’s desire and they seldom hide it, often openly flirting with him even in the presence of his woman. This is precisely what keeps her motivated to stay fit and feminine while keeping him sexually satiated and his domain in pristine condition.

It’s certain that you have descended from alpha providers of the past. They were masculine and strong enough to defend the home (or cave) against mortal threats while providing the food and shelter that allowed your bloodline to continue. It’s only now that the idea of a firm male leader within a home is considered “misogynist” and part of rape culture.

You may hate the idea of children today, but tomorrow will come


When I was in my late 20’s and early 30’s, I never considered having children, but now that I’m in my late 30’s, the prospect doesn’t seem so bad, and I envision myself as being a good father who could teach my future sons and daughters important wisdom and truths of the world that allow them to live in harmony according to their individual natures. The alpha provider role may be a good fit for me, but is there any space for it to exist in society today? What will happen to a man who wants to follow patriarchal ideas of old when feminist laws are in place to sabotage his attempt?

I already have a firm idea of what type of woman would complement me if I take on an alpha provider role. In 7 Things I Require In The Future Mother Of My Child, I listed the following traits:

1. She must be between 18-25 years old
2. She must have less than three prior sexual partners
3. Her physical attractiveness should hover around the 7 range
4. Her skin tone should be within two shades of myself
5. She must be feminine
6. She must want to be a traditional stay-at-home mother
7. She must believe in a god

But now I must create another list for the location that I could potentially reproduce with such a girl. To begin doing so, I have to consider the following:

1. What is the divorce rate of the country I want to have children in?
2. What are the divorce and custody laws like?
3. What have been the experiences of foreign men who have married there?
4. What is the country’s birth rate and receptiveness to family formation? How do people view the nuclear family?
5. Does the country have values that are multicultural and atheist or traditional and spiritual?
6. Will there be degenerate cultural forces that try to ruin the stability and happiness of my family?

There are many countries that we know have feminine women, particularly in South America, Eastern Europe, and Southeast Asia, but just because a country has pretty women doesn’t mean it’s automatically great for something more than casual relationships, especially when many countries I’ve been to wholeheartedly support women in the workforce, delayed motherhood, and easy divorce.

We have the knowledge on where to find pretty women, but now it’s time to examine exactly where a man who strives to be an alpha provider can create his own castle without government interference or cultural oppression. From the looks of it, it won’t be in the Western nations that we were born in.

This article was originally published on Roosh V.

Read Next: Western Men Are Becoming Evolutionary Dead-Ends

406 thoughts on “Should Men Strive To Become An “Alpha Provider”?”

  1. If you want kids, by all means have them, but unless you really can maintain an “alpha provider” frame and have the fortitude and mindset to do so, you will in all likelihood be a single dad before it is all said and done. This is true at least in the Anglosphere. It might not be as ideal for your kids that this is their fate, but it is the reality for most guys and as long as you are THE strong guiding presence in your kid(s)’s life/lives (don’t count on their mom for this, obviously), in all likelihood your offspring will turn out just fine and you can still be a modern patriarch of sorts.

  2. I am a married dude and I think my wife fulfills much of this as she is from Poland. I come here to read about game. Sadly, because I was divorce raped in my last marriage and am forced to pay child support my current family and I live paycheck to paycheck with a little savings-and I am a professional! Had I not married my first wife-who is a basket case-I would NOT be in this position. Men, be VERY VERY careful who you choose and PAY ATTENTION to red flags. If something she says sounds weird or odd (like ” my first husband raped me”) then STAY AWAY….if she is divorced, avoid like the plague….

    1. i would add that if she shows the slightest sign of disloyalty, even flirting with other guys, drop her. there are plenty of other women out there. next her and work on becoming the kind of man who inspires fierce loyalty in women. it’s really your only option, otherwise you will suffer immensely. i speak from personal experience.

      1. I’ve always shown my wife that I would have no problem nexting her. Even if she’s now pregnant, heh.

        1. I first read that as “no problem texting her” and I thought “Well no shit, why would she doubt your ability to do that??” Heh.

        2. I like to keep mine on her toes and I will tap out angry threats with a pencil on the kitchen table in Morse code. It’s the only way to be sure.

        3. Heh, I just make my own meals and if she asks where hers is, I simply point to the fridge. Also, hitting the gym with the same frequency before getting married makes her paranoid.

        4. Heh, I’ve misread a few others from time to time as well. Gotta love conditioning with words.

        5. Just remember the ninja method of walking:
          All the weight on the back foot, step forward landing on the ball of the foot, and slowly transfer your weight to the front foot. Rinse and repeat.
          I can actually walk pretty smoothly like this now.

        6. OH MY GOD ! Are you the guy who re-stashes the coffee machine ??

        7. Jokes aside, Roosh has a point to this article. We need to make families and breed!

        8. Think I would be as well. Heh, crazy to think my mother wanted 6 herself but the doctor talked her out of it.

        9. Whoah dude don’t be mean to us, I need step by step instructions like those which come with IKEA furniture. Last time I got stuck in the ceiling fan and I now know that is not the way to make children.

        10. I text mine and tell her I’m going to duct tape her mouth shut and lock her in the closet for a day or two when I get home.

        11. You young fellers need to get busy, mine are grown and were red pill indoctrinated before there was red pill because I taught them to be normal……..well, half ass normal anyway.

        12. I would normally shut up but here I go :
          Seeing is how my country has been infiltrated and all of it’s institutions detracted, serving the common citizen has become their main target of destruction.
          This leaves citizens extremely poor and subject to form of violence that exists in my country.
          Being dragged into court when you have no money.
          Being harassed by clans of gipsies protected by State infiltrators.
          Before I even dare to contemplate a family I better get my shit together.
          1. Become financially resilient.
          2. Become aware of God’s laws – in order to educate my family and to construct borders.
          3. Become a walking weapon in case anyone dares touch my family.
          4. Become aware of the Laws and Penal Code to use against motherfuckers with money.
          5. Find like-minded men.
          ALL of the above are extremely hard to do…

        13. My sentiments exactly. You’ve got to chuck them a bone from time to time. It is getting harder in my forties to pull the lunge leaps off though, and she may end up running off with a more alpha ninja.

        14. Yeah, she puts up a fight sometimes when I put her in there.

    2. That sucks man. I had a friend in school whos father had to pay his ex-wife child support, but the father had custody of the kids. How in the hell does that make sense? Even worse, his father made big money which meant she made big money. Between child support and alimony, he was shoveling 6 figures a year into her bank account.

      1. We used to call that “alimony” and in states where it no longer exists they back door it through “child support”. I think that in the case you mention, it was strictly a loot-n-payoff-alimony thing mislabled so as to not cross legal lines. Just a hunch.

        1. Random question: did you teach your son to ride a motorcycle and if so when did you get him started? I want to buy my nephew a little 50cc to start out on.

        2. Teaching him now actually. We talked when he was 16 and agreed that he needed a few years of car driving experience before hitting the highways with a motorcycle. He just started riding a Scooter to get used to the feel of going 55mph on only two wheels, next we move to gear shifting on a real motorcycle. Also sending him to the DOT class we have in Ohio that’s actually a very good motorcycle instructional class.

        3. Oh hell no. We’re going to do some scouting out in farm country, you can usually find a 650 parked at the end of a driveway with “For Sale” on it for a few hundred bucks that is in good working order, most of the time. His first bike will be a beater, not my prized bike.

        4. Yeah I was hoping to find an old dirt bike at the end of a driveway when I was up in New Hampshire a few weeks ago for vacation. Something to fuck around on in the woods but I had no such luck. Then I was going to rent a Harley but they guy at the dealership was a complete jackass so I couldn’t ride for the whole week. And I missed out on some good roads up there. Good luck with your son, he’s got a great teacher.

        5. I’ve never done this myself on a mc but I think there’s something genetic with these type of ‘air sports’ folks.

          The one guy crashes on his nuts. I heard a bull riding champ being interviewed who had a girly high pitched voice. He looked tough but maybe lost a nut. The two wheel skills you gotta learn young I think on a bike. You get the feel and balance like this kid:

          That kid is damn good. Me I got my skill as a kid doing wheelies and ramps but never crazy flips. I couldn’t even do cartwheels or tumble. That was girly. A mc has speed which I learned a few things the hard way though on my first mc. My advice is to learn to master stuff on a little bike or mc before getting anything fast. If you ever lose your bike at highway speed, landing is the most important thing to know. They always told me to push yourself off the handlebars and shoot yourself up and off the bike. Never get your leg pinned under. Get away from the tumbling bike and land on your ass while sliding feet first down the road. Slide to a stop feet first if you can. Never go cartwheeling down the road. You need leather on your back and ass to slide right. Flip flops and shorts won’t do and will leave you raw. Real leather only. You probably know this Jefferson but I’m just putting it out for anyone, land on your ass!!

        6. Interesting that you went with car first. My siblings and I are going the moped route before getting our own cars – not too fast, but teaches you situational awareness like nothing else.

      2. So you’re saying he was paying both child support and alimony even though he had legal custody?
        Sounds like he had a terrible lawyer.

        1. Yep he was paying out the ass. The man was a millionaire so I doubt he had a bad lawyer. She came from nothing and is still nothing, he is still quite wealthy.

      3. I got custody of my kids and kept the house, but I also paid child support despite the ex offering to forego it. (She also didn’t get alimony, but did take part of my military retirement). Sun Tzu, know your enemy. She was never a greedy person and didn’t change into one during the divorce. My kids still needed mom in their life and she was doing things alienating them/pushing them away. Not having money to do things with them would have been another excuse. Anyway, I knew if I provided CS she would feel obligated to spend it on the kids, its just how she is, wouldn’t want folks thinking she’s one of those women who spend CS on themselves. Anyway, it enabled her to go shopping with them, bring dinner to them once a week, go places with them, take care of some school expenses for them, gifts for b-days and christmas. I think it helped my kids have a better relationship than otherwise would have been possible.

        1. You sound like a stand up guy, my father was dealt the same hand. I don’t understand parents that do not put their children and their needs first. That’s why I’m glad I don’t have kids; I’m way too selfish.

        2. I don’t understand it either. Kind of tough in some ways as it’s reactive to what my ex has done vice pro-active. She knew me as well– Sun Tzu again- and knew she could count on me not to be a barrier to her kids. But my kids’ friends are jealous a bit since she and I can be in the same room together (She brings dinner the night I teach a class at church, I’m not willing to leave my house more than that just for her to be alone with the kids.) while their parents won’t. We go to their graduations/events/bday and holiday dinners and don’t have a problem sitting in the same area- less drama for the kids and minimize impact issues between mom and dad on their lives. Tough part is, women that understand and support your relationship with your kids with someone else to that level are few and far between. And I’m not going to prioritize someone I’ve known for just a few months over my kids. Which probably puts me down at some epsilon/gamma/theta rating or something…
          If you understand putting your kids needs first, you’re not that selfish. Just not ready yet for that level of commitment/responsibility since you intend to fulfill the role well.

    3. If she says “my first husband”, avoid her like the plague, barring an extreme circumstance like she’s a moral/feminine woman who lost her husband in a war or something.

    4. Why on earth did you get married a second time?? Surely you should’ve learned your lesson after your divorce….

      1. Any second goes are definitely going to involve a pre-nup for me. Went through a mediator for our divorce and did much better than most men. (Mediator admitted we freaked him out a bit with how calm and methodical we were about it- he’d never seen that before). I won’t chance that happening a second time.

        1. A second passport is better than a pre-nup in my opinion. Also, don’t own any investment that you can’t easily hide or move.

    5. I don’t think it is because she is from Poland. I have met some seriously fucked up Polish women. In any case, well done.
      Btw, with respect to Roosh’s list. I would forget the “shades” part. There aren’t enough decent women around to worry about that. Also, the age is irrelevant as long as she is of child-bearing age. I once met an 18 year old girl who had had 20 partners. Another 30 year old woman had only had 2 or 3 partners.
      Besides, every woman will age. Today’s 25 year old is tomorrow’s 45 year old. Don’t worry about it.
      Also, don’t worry about her being exceptionally pretty. Just pick a healthy girl with a face that doesn’t offend you. Why? Refer to what I wrote about her age. She will eventually be ugly anyway.
      And if you really, really, need some hot young pussy… well… there’s places you can go for that.

    6. Always good to keep the upper hand like working in another country or working under the table say in construction.

    7. Putting women on a mental leash held in a firm strong grip is in fact a sign of masculinity that women will feel and enjoy as it makes them feel more feminine. Think of that next time feminists try to shame you about it being cowardly and insecure

  3. Most likely you will need to be independently wealthy. There is an inverse correlation between a country’s prosperity and traditional values.
    Italy can be a decent middle ground for financial success and patriarchal values.

    1. my italian ex-girlfriend was quite the conservative, traditional girl. feminine, loved to cook and clean for me, and she wanted to be a homemaker. not quite a virgin, but within the ROK-approved notch count range. i didn’t end up marrying her for other reasons, but i think she could have been decent wife material. i got the impression that she was an exception though. she used to criticize both italian and american women for their extreme feminism, and it seems like other italian chicks i’ve known have been quite the SJWs, many of them literal communists.

        1. there were a few things. one, as much as i love italy, italians tend to be pretty dramatic and emotional. she was no exception, and it got smothering after a while. also, she started slacking off on her workouts and eating more junk food. petite, cute girl, but i didn’t like the way that was going. looking back, i probably could have reigned all of that in if i had been more alpha, but this was all pre-red pill.

    2. Really?
      I was there a couple of years ago before I got married and it was pretty slutty. Maybe the rural villages are the place to be, kind of like American small towns.
      I also have friends who live there now, and they say that the Muslim influx is visible. That’s a personal deal-breaker.

      1. I can’t speak for the sexual habits of Italians, but I know they take masculinity much more seriously and females are generally looked at differently.
        The South is much different than the North. The south still has 3rd world culture.
        I’d say Italy has held up best out of the European countries regarding the Muslim problem.

  4. The more recent talks about this in the Manoshere seem to have been triggered by that pathetic Prager U video. As Aaron Clarey mentioned in one of his recent vlogs, Prager has been divorced twice. I suspect his endorsement of marriage is less about Tradconism than it is a matter of Misery Loves Company. I’m a Tradcon, but I don’t harbor any delusions about living in a political and social climate akin to the days when “Leave It To Beaver” was still on television.
    Just buy a dog, Roosh.

  5. It’s the next step for me. The other week my wife brought home two pre-conception books – books on how to make sure your egg and sperm are the best they can be. Still at least a year away even by her timeline, but damn that girl wants to be a mom bad.

    1. Heh, good luck. I’ve only been married since March and the kid is already 3-4 months along. They have a habit of sneaking up on you.

  6. Alpha provider – you’ll serious game, not to mention cash. The top 2% of males

    1. It can be done. You are right though.

      1. Yeah, but he’s a soft, weak little man. She was a known carpet muncher I believe, before they were married. He made a very, very bad choice that was easily preventable.

        1. Yes, you are correct.
          But my point is even stars have troubles with divorce rape. Just remember Robin Williams, who killed himself because of the divorce.

        2. I would rather go out like Phil Hartman than spend years in court and watch my savings dwindle to nothing.

        3. Right. I just find those kind of people naturally weak, so their money and fame won’t help them. But then I consider that Clint Eastwood also divorced so, eh, you’re right.

        4. Might as well go like Jimi Hendrix.
          Still better than the torture poor Williams went through.

        5. I’d prefer the Paul McCartney solution as long as I remained wise enough to then not get hitched a second…and third…time to gold diggers. I guess he’s an old fogey though and wanted company. Paid a hell of a lot of money when he could have instead just bought a dog.

        6. I have to think that in my advanced years dog would beat woman.

        7. He should have stayed for the threesome action….. rusty trombone as he’s getting blown…… it is to be savoured…… but not get married….. no…..

        8. Me too. I suspect that the death of his first wife, whom he was clearly devoted to (and she to him from what I’ve heard) really fucked him up mentally.

        9. I would imagine his last wife would have sucked the chrome off a ball hitch….. made his head spin….. mixing dirty sex with love is a dangerous combination……

        10. also, he might feel the weight of guilt for all the praise that has been heaped on him due to his participation in what is, at best, a mediocre pop band with fair to midland musical ability and harmonies.

        11. You’d think more of them would be like Renner. Apparently his lawyer was good enough to have an iron-clad pre-nup.

        12. The problem with pre-nups is they CAN be thrown out any second at divorce.
          And even, in the lucky case you convince a judge to enforce the pre-nup, the money it will cost to hire a goo lawyer to write it for you and defend it at divorce is ridiculously high for a normal man.

      2. Johnny Depp has never been to this website otherwise he would have known better than to marry her. She’s a bisexual, that’s a big red flag. She’s hot though, so you bang her and move on. You don’t marry girls like that.

      3. The money is what done him in. If he was much less wealthy he would need “game” and would have sniffed out the crazy chick as a no go for a wife

  7. Becoming an alpha provider is more appealing the older I get. If I don’t have a son my family name dies with me, and that is starting to cross my mind more often than it did in the past. We’re planning on having a child within the next 2-4 years; with my luck it’ll be a girl.

    1. Heh, I know the feeling. In my years bouncing from bed to bed the law of averages says I should have knocked up at least one woman in that time. Haven’t received a letter of summons so I’m guessing it didn’t happen but I get married earlier this year and within the month I knock her up.

      1. When I was in my 20’s, I’d cream pie just about any woman with a pulse. I’m extremely lucky I don’t have dozens of bastards.

        1. Probably some other schmuck is raising your kid and doesn’t know it. Or, he knows it and thinks it’s noble to adopting the kid(s).

        2. Heh, I knew a chick in the army who had a thing for me. Up until she was knocked up she wasn’t bad looking. She inquired about what I thought about dating single moms and let’s just say she’s still a single mother over a decade later.

  8. Interesting question, and one that I’ve been considering myself. I married a foreign girl and brought her here to live in a small town. But even there, the degeneracy seeps in.
    I’m currently at a loss in terms of where to relocate that values traditional families and also offers a standard of living close to what I have now.

    1. Maybe Utah? Mormonism is ludicrous, but seems fairly effective at trying to keep women in check.

      1. Amish too (the “Old Order” kind, not the modernist kind). Although I’m not entirely certain if they accept new members, and you’d have to really be down with churning your own butter.

      2. Haha, well. Maybe. I hope that’s not the only option, though. I dated a Mormon chick once and learned more than I cared to about that particular brand of crazy.

  9. Here in lies the conundrum: if you wait until you are older (and are from the United States) the more difficult it will be for you to fit in a more traditional society. The stricter code will be difficult for you to follow, and you will always be seen as an outsider, and likely you will speak the language with a thick accent. However, trying to raise children in a traditional sense in your own land today is damn near impossible, with the media saturating your child with messages of depravity, CPS just waiting to snatch your child if so much as scold them for stealing, and a litany of other ills. What is the answer? Neither flight will work, nor will the status quo, only the hardest route of them all…

      1. The fat dude might have a recessive ginger gene. Of course, passing that on to all four children would still be unlikely…

        1. Plus, his wife there seems to have red hair.

        2. They are so my weakness. The nice thing though is that most red heads just aren’t very attractive. But when they are they hit it out of the ballpark in my view.

  10. I think the best option for men who want children is 50/50 co-parenting. Leaving the west is just a pie in the sky idea for most men. And who the hell wants to give up all these creature comforts anyway. Our fore-fathers built this place for us, so damn it, we shouldn’t be the ones to leave.
    Co-parenting is where pua, mgtow, and mra need to unite. We only need one state to pass a 50/50 shared custody law. Then men can fuck around till 40 and next find some baby desparate career chick to push out a kid or two. Once the custody arrangements are settled, men can go back to fucking around.
    Marriage is dead and dying Roosh, face the inevitable.

    1. ” We only need one state to pass a 50/50 shared custody law. ”
      Except it will never happen because women are greedy and don’t want 50%, they want 99% of your money and never let you see the kid.
      And as long as they have the right to vote it will stay like that. Females now are so privileged by the state that 50/50 custody is unappealing to them.
      ” Once the custody arrangements are settled, men can go back to fucking around. ”
      And this arrangements will be thrown out just as quickly at divorce as precedent shows. The state will then force you to pay alimony, want it or not. And whatever it said about joint custody will be thrown out of window.
      Women never learn. We need a collapse for things to change.

      1. It definitely won’t happen if we don’t try. Hell even feminist capitol sweden i think believe in 50/50 custody.
        And your comment about divorce is irrelevant, since there wouldn’t be a marriage to begin with.

        1. Feminists will still find a way to fuck with us.
          Cooperating with the system is no solution. Feminists hate men and want us to suffer. The elites are all on board with the depopulation agenda.
          No escape. Only crashing this plane with no survivors.

        2. If we cant get one law passed in our favor, then we arent the men we claim and deserve to be fucked with.

        3. ” If we cant get one law passed in our favor, then we arent the men we claim and deserve to be fucked with. ”
          No, what it means is we live under the ridiculousy that is universal democracy, where women are a bit more than 50% and a big part of men are manginas.
          We don’t need to change a law. We must smash the system that gives power to women and manginas.
          Authoritarian patriarchy now and forever !

        4. i happen to like civiluzation, thank you very much. Leaving like the taliban, just so i can get subjigated pussy, is a bad trade if you ask me.

        5. What the hell are you talking about ?
          It is under feminist anarcho-tyranny that we have good men going to prison for not paying ridiculous alimony. Meanwhile rapefugees get free handouts and are allowed to rape.
          Authoritarian patriarchy is civilization. It is feminism that is bringing Sharia law to the West.
          This would not have happened under Charlemagne.

      2. my wife is an extremely devout catholic. she believes that god gives her one and only one marriage, feminism is satan’s work, and that she’d better make this marriage work. i suppose there might be other conditions under which a man could be reasonably safe getting married, i just can’t quite think of them off the top of my head.

    2. Single parent households are deficient, regardless of which sex gets them. A single father *will* do a better job, clearly, but studies are pretty clear that both parents living together and raising kids produces well rounded normal kids, as opposed to kids with…issues.

      1. Not single parent, co-parent. Your way only works for a few men, most men arent alpha enough and never will be. 50/50 custody laws give most men a chance to have kids with both parents involved, but no alimony or child support to rob them.

        1. The key is “in the same house” is what I’m saying.

        2. Dont let the petfect be the enemy of the good.
          Your way us lost to most of us, time to find another way.

        3. I think we’d have more success building men up to be that “rare alpha” you mention. See my entry post on this thread. It can be done.
          Feminism is so entrenched right now that getting any kind of equity law in place would be nigh impossible, although I will say that I’m not entirely pessimistic about it. If Hillary goes down in flames I suspect it will get a lot easier to rally around such a legal effort. If she gets into office though, we’re toast.

        4. We disagree on making men alpha. I think we mostly are who we are. We can wear the armor for a while, but it eventually gets too heavy.
          If a real effort was made, i think we could pass 50/50 custody regardless of Hillary. The trick is marketing. Feminism already helps a little by claiming that matetnal roles are forced on women. So, lets unforce it.

        5. There is no such thing as a static personality. You are who you make yourself. You may have certain quirks or whatever that remain constant, but there’s no need to accept your lot and personality in life as a given that is unchangeable.

        6. Also, florida came close to getting 50/50, but that asshole tradcon mangina Rick Scott betrayed us.

        7. Literally the defeatist mindset of a woman. You can change and alter yourself in any way that you want. That ‘default’ personality of yours has been conditioned into you, as such it can be conditioned out.

        8. so what you are saying is that the feminists and sjw are right, everything is just a social construct.

    3. I will not have kids with a baby desperate career chick. Recipe for autism.

  11. I think that the influence of culture is given too much weight. It does influence, yes, but somehow I’ve managed to marry a traditional woman who was raised here in the States, traditionally, have two kids, and remain basically a “natural” despite all of it. Son is now an adult and as alpha as they get, daughter is feminine, anti-feminist, pretty, cooks well and is very pleasant company. All while surrounded by this “culture”. The son was born in the mid 90’s and the daughter in 2000. These are not kids raised from the 1970’s in other words, the culture was becoming rapidly toxic by the 1990’s.
    And yet, success.
    It does take some luck, no question, but it can be done. The trick is to cut out the bad influences in the formative years and teach the kid(s) to make choices that are good, that they think that they are making “on their own”. Teach them core principles and then they will usually make good decisions (minus, you know, kids being dumb every now and then, but that happens throughout human history and is a known quantity).
    In parting I’ll also note that there are more than two options, that is, single man “alpha” or beta provider (or alpha provider, maybe just “provider” for short). Marry, have kids and when the wife slows down in time, make arrangements like men used to make on the side, way back in the Olden Days. My grandfather did it and lived a long, good life, nobody even knew about his two or three side girlfriends until after my grandmother died (including her, he kept things quiet and respectful).

    1. There are unicorns out there that don’t go in for the bullshit feminazi tropes of the independent, strong woman…. so sick of that shite……
      I have a begrudging admiration for the Muzzies….they keep their women in check and don’t go in for any of the liberal degeneracy…..

      1. Strong, independent, “let me share my daring Far Leftist oh so original political opinions with you”, flaking, demanding, etc. Yep, it’s all there now. But there are exceptions, depending on where and HOW she was raised. Hard part is knowing when she’s the exception and not just whispering a beautiful lie in your ear.
        I know a young lady of 23 who is one of the most laid back, easy to get along with, feminine and genuinely pretty women I’ve ever met. They’re out there. She’s a needle in a haystack though.

        1. I’ve been hearing a lot of “I’m not a feminist!” as of late. I think it’s the new Hivemind Meme to throw men off, since it appears that men apparently are starting to screen feminists out. Doesn’t mean that they aren’t feminists of course.

        2. One key I found was seeing how she acted around family and how she handles her liquor. There’s a reason why the Far East views two different people as either sober or drunk.

        3. I’ve noted that as well. Just get a few drinks in her, sit back, watch and enjoy the fireworks.

        4. I’ve really got to get those screenshots out there huh.

        5. Yea the way a woman holds her booze is a dead giveaway…..I see so many of them now getting so fucked up on alcohol. One date I was on a while back I’m sitting beside the woman talking to another person. A few drinks had been had. I turned back to talk to her and thought she was gone. But no, she was stretched out on the ground…..

        6. The abundance mentality is a good one. I like the “optional” mentality. If most marriages end in divorce, and divorce is presumed worse than never married, then she would need to be in the top tier of women to even be considered for something that could lead to marriage since I would otherwise be better off alone/with casual flings.

        7. Indeed. Sitting back and watching them while they consume glass after glass is quite telling. One started an argument on the second date while at a bar, while another didn’t know when to quit after nine shots of liquor. Both became pump and dumps at that point.

        8. I just dumped an eight-month girlfriend due to alcohol as a pointer to more future problems.

    2. I think a good trick to keep the marriage together is just to identify as a woman, that way it will discourage divorce rape since she knows the judge can’t be biased towards her. Cause you know brave and stunning…. equality.

      1. That always makes me wonder about Lesbians divorcing. How can the judge figure out how to give all the money to the woman?

        1. Me too. Somehow I think gay divorce had its own rules that are way better for everyone than regular divorce. But we can be sure if one thing the Lawyers come out on top.

        2. I think most gays are pretty fucking violent in their personal lives. They’re an angry, sad lot of human beings.

        3. It’s like someone said about the shooter in Florida that he was a “self hating homosexual”. I thought to myself aren’t they all self hating homosexuals????

        4. Probably whichever one the judge wants to sleep with most lol. Seriously I think most divorce judges are bitter angry lesbians.

        5. Lol. Although I kinda think they made that up since they needed a non leftist scapegoat so it had to be the homophobe that went on a shooting spree not the Muslim

        6. Totally the opposite of the noble homosexual displayed on every TV show. I had the distinct misfortune of being an uber driver in sf for a couple months, they are vile and disgusting.

        7. Yes, agreed. The stories of violence I’ve heard about going on with homosexuals of both sexes are revolting.

        8. And the old line that if you don’t like homosexuals you are a closet homo. Em no I just don’t think sticking your cock up another mans shite pipe is equal to the heterosexual act. The flamboyancy which is now so tiresome. I don’t wish them bad I just wish they would go away……..

        9. “Homophobia”-which is a totally made up faux-psychology word, is a natural reflex to sodomy that is ingrained in everyone. That’s why they push for government schools to indoctrinate it out of kids at a young age

        10. Yeah, agreed. I hate that word. It’s their Silencing Code Word. Fuck that.
          I don’t hate horses, for example, but I have no interest in them fucking, about hearing about them fucking, about seeing them ridden in parades that promote horse fucking, etc. It’s just not something I care to see, which has nothing at all to do with fearing horses, which I don’t.

        11. A good comparaison I often use is alcoholics.
          Alcoholics hurt themselves, engage in repugnant behaviors I strongly disagree with, but I don’t hate them.
          And I don’t want to be forced to have alcoholic friends, to encourage my non-existent sons to become like them and to see alcoholics parades paid with my money (although that could be fun to watch).

        12. Yeah, a parade of drunks would be pretty amusing.

        13. Dude sick stuff, lots of drugs, this one gay “couple” talked about their friend ran a stable of runways kids out of his home how his other friend would love them.

        14. I used to be like most everyone else, which is pretty libertarian about the whole thing I think. But after seeing what that lifestyle really is has converted me to the old ways of thinking about it.

        15. Kind of the same. I don’t want to make any laws outlawing the practice, but I have went from “Well, they’re just normal people too” to understanding that they are really, really fucked up individuals that I really don’t think I’m capable of getting along with as any kind of “friend”.

        16. Phobia is a fear. We’re not afraid of gays.
          So if we are repulsed by the ugly, fat feminists at slut walks, do we have adipose-phobia?

        17. A close friend of mind is a judge that will be making this decision any day now. He’s been dreading the first gay divorce. There’s basically no precedent. Any day now, the first one will happen. Although I imagine there’s huge social pressure from the gay community not to be the first one to fuck it up.

        18. I’ve heard that there are all kinds of divorces going on now, but I have no further information. Will be interested to see what is set as precedent too.

        19. Ya in hindsight I wish I had done something cool like punched them in the face. But I’d probably still be in prison for that.

        20. Gay marriages here only started a few months ago when the supreme court forced them. Hey GoJ, considering your interest in linguistics, can you shine a light on the background of the entymology of “cis”? I think it’s a really stupid thing to call normal people “cisgendered” but can’t think of any other uses of this prefix off the top of my head. The internet says it is a latin term for “on the near side of” like I am “Cis-appalachain mountains”.
          There is a chemistry related definition, which they appear to have gotten backwards:

    3. I’m currently in my fourth long-term relationship. The current one and one other were great–both traditional girls with good attitudes. The other two were awful and, after much grief, helped me learn lessons to become a better man. Out of the four, only two of the women had good relationships with their fathers (I bet you can guess which two). I’m curious if you’ve noticed the same pattern?
      Every woman I’ve ever known with either no relationship or a rocky relationship with her father is a basket case, and every guy who dates/marries her looks dead inside. This includes women I haven’t dated. My brother has been married twice. The first wife, a total whack job, no longer speaks to her father. His second wife is very close with hers.
      Despite what the media says, I’m fairly certain that fathers serve an important role in their daughters’ lives, and single mothers are not the mega bad asses people think they are (but we already knew that, of course).

      1. There have been some studies done about father/daughter relationships and the way it can impact her development, emotional and mental. They really emphasized the importance of dad in daughter’s life.

        1. Nb
          The point that stuck out for me is how if the father roughouses with his daughter from and at a young age (birth -5yo), the result is greater intelligence. I dont remember the rationale behind that. But a part of me wonders if it is vecause she knows her limits physically in comparison to her father, plus the safety angle, feeling safe and secure also benefitting intelligence in the long term.

      2. My wife’s father was very, very authoritarian. But, also loving. He’d demand (whatever) and the kids or wife would run fetch it, but then on Christmas he’d set up a beautiful old school electric train set and play gently with the grandchildren, or he’d make it a point to take care of any annoyances of “mama” once they’d bitched and griped at each other enough. It’s strange how womens’ minds work, as basically this is me.

    4. Ghost, no disrespect, but what you did is no longer possible in today’s America. You’d have to be insane to marry an American woman in this day and age.

      1. What I did was only done a few years ago. This defeatism of yours is a cancer man. YOU can do anything you wish, the world is your oyster, don’t be a victim.

        1. Considering your son is about my age, you must have married around the same time as my parents, so I’m assuming early 90s or around that time. The culture and sexual marketplace is totally different than it was even ten years ago. If I ever do get married it will not be to an American woman. Either way, I’m inclined to agree with Morrison. Maybe having a family isn’t the best idea right now. There’s serious shit brewing.

        2. Hey, GOJ has a sweet traditional daughter around your age. You might wanna check her out. Sorry, I mean, wife her up! Just try to ask him to set you up with her! lol

    1. That’s always a valid choice. How old are you, if you don’t mind my asking?

      1. 21. I know I know. “You will change your mind when you are older” etc. I’ve heard that more than enough. haha.
        It’s not because I don’t like kids. I like kids and I love babies. There’s nothing more cure than the teethless smile of a baby.
        But I also know what it’s like to care for a baby/kid for a week alone. And this week fucked me up. Changing diapers, sleepless nights, always worrying if something happens to him/her.
        Also if you look at this fucked up decade, you are gonna think twice before you get a kid. And it is getting worse and worse.
        I can’t predict the future, someday maybe I will actually get second thoughts, but for now I can surely say that I dont want kids.
        I’m also not a fan of long-term-relationships but once in a while, some “beta-thoughts” come in my mind and I tell myself, that it could work probably.
        But once I’m actually in a LTR, I want to get out asap.
        I think it would be the same with kids, but I would not want to leave a kid without a father. And at the same time I don’t want to sacrifice my own happiness.
        Oh also my parents are traditional and want me to have kids and marry 100%. That’s even more fucked up. Already thinking how I’m gonna bypass that. But luckily I have enough time to think about it. Maybe I pay a doctor 1k€ so he gives me a fake file saying I’m impotent.
        Yeah it’s fucked up. Need a beer now.

        1. At 21 I couldn’t have successfully navigated taking care of a baby for an hour, let alone a week. 21 year old men traditionally were out earning a hard living, or in war, not sitting at home wasting their talents trying to raise a baby which is supposed to be the wife’s roll (raising a baby, not the child after 4 though when it becomes your job). Meaning, you sound like you have the makings of a father already, but just aren’t ready to commit your life to it. Which is cool.

        2. I’m saving money right now and will probably move into a new apartment next year. I will get myself a doberman puppy.
          Let’s see how that goes.

        3. Sounds like a plan only the Doberman puppy. Just remember that a Doberman is bred to be your personal bodyguard. They take some training. If you’re willing to put in the time it is very rewarding and will be a certain pussy puller when you go for a walk in the park…… call him Bruce……

        4. Sure man. I am researching everything for it for a year already. I will probably get one in 1 year – 2 years.

        5. Dog in an apartment = epic fucking fail. Filthy and no room for an animal, hallmark trait of dumb, poor people.

        6. Nope it isnt. A dog just needs a place to sleep and chill. If you go out with him daily more than 2+ hours and exercise with him it is perfectly fine.
          I know, most americans are shocked by the fact that having a huge garden isn’t worth shit for a dog.

        7. yes it is a lot of work, but I get a great sense of satisfaction from watching it grow from a sapling to a larger, greener plant.

        8. Tell that to your neighbor, who listens to him yap all day. Enjoy it crawling all over your furniture etc. People and their live in, useless dogs are nasty.

        9. Only undisciplined dogs do that. A properly trained dog that you raise from a pup to consider you the Alpha Male (in a non-ROK sense, although kind of like it in a way) behaves properly.

        10. Clearly you have no idea about dogs, and probably have never seen how a good trained dog behaves.
          If you let a untrained dog 8 hours alone, of course he goes full retard.

        11. In reality it really isn’t different than how you would deal with a woman, except, I hope, the whole sex part. I consider the same attitudes, confidence and take charge thing that I do with women to be primary traits needed to bring a dog or horse to heel as well.

        12. a doberman in an apartment ? thought this kind of dog should be in a garden for moving running etc. by the way, we should open a thread for people who want to own a dog

        13. Realize that a dog will anchor you at home. Makes going home with a woman from the bar tough when you have to let your dog out to pee at night.

        14. I can remember telling people when I was as young as 13 that I never wanted kids and that’s all they told me. “You’ll change your mind when you’re older. You’ll see!” As I approach 28, the only thing that’s changed are the reasons why I don’t want kids.
          I went the dog route as well. While I love him to death, there’s honestly times I wish I didn’t have him.

        15. why not adding one ou two bitches, too (i meant women in bikini, not female dogs) ?

        16. I’m an Online Marketer, basically I have nearly unlimited free time. That won’t be a problem.

        17. Women have not such a big priority to me. They come and go. Making enough money with my passion to buy a ferrari and raise and live with an awesome dog is way more important for me.

        18. get an italian cane corso- they are descended from Roman dogs of war…would like nice in a Ferrari

        19. Just like a guy with an AR-15, your doberman is your little novelty item trying to fill some void. You’ll never use it for it’s designed purpose, being an apartment dweller with nothing worth guarding-yet still you buy it. Behaved, full size dogs usually carry out some form of work rather than eating, shitting & and getting pampered by their weirdo owner.

        20. Dogs are an expensive, dirty and time consuming little hobby. Im all for them if you hunt or have a house with family to guard, but think Americans are getting a little disgusting lately with their over attachment to worthless, untrained dogs of their own. I can think of hundreds more useful things to do than dicking off with Fido at all odd moments of free time when you live in town. Dont even get me started on the pricks everywhere who now think their mutt is equal to a Guide Dog for the Blind, and take it into any store they please. Big difference there.

        21. Imagine going to share a bed with a date who also shares her bed with a dog, bish please.

        22. No, but I would laugh heartily if semi autos were banned and enjoy the hissy fits thrown by gun nuts. I think if only bolt actions, revolvers, and black powder were sold, youd see real quick which guys are actually shooters and hunters vs toy collectors. I cant stand posers….shot a sweet Sako .243 over the weekend though I might say. Granted our 2nd Amendment meant otherwise, but this country is already so far gone from our original ideals it is a moot point. Gun hobbyists are some of the most neurotic/paranoid people youll meet-the type building zombie apocalypse type shit while living hand to mouth.

        23. I actually have a large collection of firearms and enjoy them immensely, including many semi-autos (StG-58 being my favorite) and even a Tommygun. I know about the heavily overweight “shooter” types who think that an AR with 456 different accessories is TactiCool, but that doesn’t mean that most AR/semi-auto owners fall in that camp. My neighbor is a corporate jet pilot, but has several AR’s that he uses for target shooting.

        24. Im also anti bro-truck- lifted, enormous, domestics trucks that dont excel in any one area performance wise. Often due to the meshing of the owner’s aftermarket, shit parts clashing with what the auto engineers designed in exchange for salary. Buy or design something with a purpose in mind, not just as a novelty to have. Kinda like dig fewer holes and mine them deeper…spread yourself too widely and your pursuits will go nowhere.

        25. Never was one for the F250/350, except for farm work.

        26. That’s cool, but doesnt change my viewpoint. Why do semi-autos need to be available to the retard American public? As shown over the past couple of decades, we are a society no longer responsible enough for them. You can still target shoot, hunt and defend your home with pump actions, bolts and revolvers. The semi auto thing is a luxury not necessary for the public.

        27. Because liberty, that’s why. Why I own anything is my business and my business alone. You don’t enjoy the privilege of being able to determine what is necessary for me to own or not own.
          Crime rates are down drastically, btw.

        28. Lol you think we still live in that type of America. Those days are long gone, along with privacy. Im just tired of idiots going on shooting sprees with their semi autos and driving up ammo prices repeatedly. Even reloading components.

        29. And mass shootings are up like never before, so that argument goes nowhere.

        30. Spare me. It goes everywhere. Crime is drastically down, starting from the 1990’s forward when concealed carry was introduced across the lands.
          You come here, snarl at people you don’t know, you come out against anything even remotely masculine and do the typical feminist type shaming of men liking guns and trucks, you seem to think that the 2nd is about hunting, and you make anti-gun arguments just to be snide while pretending to be pro gun because of your dang diggity bolt action and black powder stuff. You might be on the wrong sight “bro”. The point of being an asshole to others for kicks is lost on me.
          Don’t bother answering, I’m done feeding this troll.

        31. Sorry if buying something because you need it, building something to accomplish a task, and preserving resources for useful tasks is lost on you. I get tired on men acting like 6 year old boys with their trucks and guns, like GI Joe and Hot Wheels. You lost your argument, then resorted to calling me a feminist or troll. Wise men dont piss away their resources on pissant possessions, like safes of guns and apartment doggies. You seem to have lots in common with women who clutter up a house with bullshit.

        32. Id say it was built for hauling heavy loads. So when you lift it to try to make it off road like a jeep or piss money on attempting to speed it up like a corvette, by my rational youre a mongoloid because it will do none of these things well. In addition, you take away from it’s designed purpose, while paying for those mods. That’s feminist thinking?

    2. dependent (child), to independent (young adult), to interdependent (father), to independent (empty nester), to dependent (geriatric)…..that’s the natural order of things. Your time will come.

    1. The sense of pride you get after raising a young man with a bright future and good head on his shoulders is immense. It’s kind of a long view take on happiness/contentment.

    2. I am with you. You will get a whole bunch of father-son shit. From what I can tell there are exactly zero things that fatherhood has on being a misanthropic shut in living by yourself.

      1. I have a ready made, honest man who has my back and that in and of itself is a rare thing nowadays. Throw in the amazing memories of hunting, fishing, sports, teaching him to drive a stick shift, his first noises as a man, etc. and it’s really quite fulfilling.

        1. I know a man like that too… and that’s me ! All these amazing memories with myself are really quit fulfilling too.

        2. It’s kind of like faith. If you don’t have it, it simply doesn’t computer, but the moment you get it, you know from toes to nose that you have it. I had no idea about it at all entering into it, now I do.

        3. Think of it as the successful feeling you get in creating something. Same thing, on a very long scale. I’m me, but I still feel a sense of deep accomplishment having added two high quality human beings into the world.

        4. I respect that, really, but I like the idea of perfectioning myself rather than a clone of myself. And, that will sound weird, but I’m quite fond of the idea of going out of this world unnoticed, like a ninja.

        5. Funny, that is exactly how I want to go out of this world. I once told someone that if people really cared about me they would be no where near me when I die. I want to be alone with my thoughts and not catering to someone else fuckery.

        6. I did that when I was younger, even had a spiffy “Project” name I gave it (seriously). Got where I wanted to, am able to put self improvement on autopilot and figured “Hey, time for a son”.

        7. The truth is I swore before God not to know women until France is a Monarchy by Divine Right and rules the world.

        8. I swore to never know them. Fuck, I barely remember there names and I already hate them. I will save knowing them for their husbands. I just want to bone them 🙂

        9. Agreed. It is a huge step of faith to have kids, the satisfaction you get out of having progeny is difficult to explain. I come home from work and have six kids climb on me wanting to roughhouse or throw a ball in the back yard is great. My wife is getting dinner going so I give her a kiss and ask how her day went. Then I proceed to goof off with the kids until dinner is ready. I will spend on hour or so with chores or repairs as necessary, help put the kids to bed, and spend quality time with the wife. Good times.

        10. 6 young-ins?? Holy cow man, here’s a big old salute of respect for you!

        11. You kind of sound like a French noble Libertin from the 50s (1750s).

        12. I have found that once you get past 4 or so, they entertain, teach each other and help take care of each other. It isn’t as hard as you would think.

        13. that, my friend, is the finest compliment I’ve ever been paid.

        14. I’d suspect that the constant activity and noise would get to me over time, but hey, who knows? I know that with two, by the time they reached high school, we didn’t have a free weekend at all, at least until they started driving. Very busy time.

        15. I’m getting new troops ready for our next skirmish.
          That makes me curious, what kind of training would you give troops as a Frenchman? I’m thinking that sprinting and courses on the advanced uses of bleach on flags would be included, but am drawing a blank otherwise.

        16. One or a dozen, they take all your time. Traveling does get harder though. We are very strict about bedtime. 9 pm sharp, more for our own sanity than anything.

        17. Heh, that was cruel. He knows I’m just playing though.

        18. We use our own napoleonian system, you know, the one every modern army in the world adopted because it amazingly kicked asses.
          It’s funny you said that because you’re talking to a future French infantry officer or nco.
          Just successfully passed the entrance exams !

        19. Actually, congratulations on that, good sir.

        20. Some people wonder why the French plant trees in rows along all of their roadways, but I know why. The Germans like to march in shade.
          *rim shot*
          I actually adore France, and have had nothing but wonderful times when I visit there. I just like pulling Monsieur’s chain a bit, heh.

        21. Going to a restaurant is hell on the wallet with 3 kids 10 and older. 3 or more is fun. I have 3

        22. One day we will have a friendly drunken bar fight after you told one of these awful jokes. You’ll probably win though, cause you’re twice my size from what I’ve read. I will aim for the liver.

        23. Shrewd maneuver. Keep in mind that I have a liver of steel though. Much to the dismay of my physician.
          As a half Scot I find a decent bar fight to be no end of fun, as long as nobody takes it seriously, heh. Just good clean fun.

        24. Maximilian de Robespierre is one of my Heroes ! His birthday was recently.

        25. Other than taking the wife out on a date, we haven’t been to a restaurant in years. If on the road, we will stop by a grocery store and eat in a park. If anything else, I don’t like being a nuisance to other patrons.

        26. Lol, whut?? I thought you’d find the comparison to a French nobleman flattering! heh

        27. Yes, you’re right. Although now I feel unconfortable with the idea of fighting a man wearing a skirt.

        28. That’s understandable. Don’t worry though, you can always, you know, run away. Heh.

        29. Du Guesclin used to do that against the English.
          Pretend to run away, in order to wrongfoot them, then fall back on them.
          Worked well.

        30. I could do that so long as everyone was behaved. When Socrates was sentenced to die, he drank his hemlock and had some friends hanging out with him. Plato was there, Crito was there, they had a few slaves, probably some olives. Socrates was sitting around just laying some truths down, talking about a river and, probably, the joys of sodomy. Anyway, one of his buddies, a guy named Appolodorus, starts fucking crying. Socrates, in what might be the coolest move ever, surrounded by his buddies, turns to Appolodorus and says “i sent the women away for this very purpose, to stop their creating such a scene. I have heard that one should die in silence. so please be quiet and keep control of yourselves”

        31. That is a total boss answer.
          Rather like Highlander

          Quiet! He’s a highlander, by God! The last sound he
          hears shouldn’t be that of a wailing woman!

        32. like my friend Ollie would say “lets out and have a good spar…will get the blood flowing”

        33. I am going to side with the Frenchmen here. He looks like a bit of a fancy boy, but I feel he has a house hold guard and at least he isn’t wearing a skirt. The scot looks like the poster boy for our modern restroom conundrum

        34. Such a good answer.
          Socrates had a pretty good death imo and when his buddy cried he fucking shamed him for being a puss.
          Socrates: Going out like a boss.

        35. Many a Roman made the same mistake you made, and did not live to regret it. Because, well, they didn’t live. Heh Hadrians wall wasn’t to keep us away from Romans, it was to keep Romans alerted that crossing that line meant venturing into very, very scary territory inhabited by giant savage men with kilts and monstrous swords who would chop them into little bits and cut them into many pieces and hang them out to dry with the wolves.

        36. Actually, yeah. They come from the Vikings actually. Though as a normal fashion thing for Scots, right, the breacan and filleadh mhòr didn’t show up until the 16 century.
          You’re right though, I was just painting a picture that I wanted to include a kilt. The city boy making fun of Scottish kilts makes me smile, heh.

        37. What was worse was that in the 112 A.D. the Scots wore plaid pants. How fucking bizarre is that? It’s no wonder that golf was invented there.

        38. Right…I know….yer bruce mcjenner of the clan mcjenner and you will use whichever restroom you wish

        39. Nah. I dig it. Chicks dig me wearing it. Not a living man says anything to my face when I’m wearing it. It’s all cool. Heh.
          Seriously, women go ape shit when I (or other half way decent looking men) wear kilts. Lots of programming from decades of romance novels I guess.

        40. It was about a hundred years, give or take.

        41. thank you. I was wondering if someone was going to properly respond.

        42. You’ll never know the feeling, Think your fancy city boy dandy clothes turns heads? You don’t know the half of it. Heh.
          Seriously, it has to come from romance novels, women been going nearly insane over this thing since I’ve been a teenager, what, back in the Civil War I think.

        43. Started by a French King failing to have a son and his English nephew using the dynastic laws to proclame himself King of France, then it moved to a dispute about lands that the English had in France near Bordeaux.
          Also, we supported the Scotts (you’re welcome Goj) and that pissed off the English.

        44. yeah, I know..just wanted someone to say “about 100 years”

        45. For a brief period of time, some would say around a hundred years, we were well provisioned in wine and cheese.
          Actually the Auld Alliance was a pretty cool thing. Any chance a Scot could take to piss off an Englishman, he took. How my parents lasted long enough together to produce me is anybody’s guess.

  12. Financially, it is difficult. Even as a civil engineer, my kids complain that we don’t have the acreage, toys, or square footage as some other families. But, on the flip side, we don’t have the drama that comes with divorce, juggling daycare, or eating frozen dinners either. I commend anyone who is able to be the sole provider and enable his wife to stay at home to raise a nuclear family, not only for themselves, but for the value they add to society.

  13. If wife is not viable. Have a child the way fags do. Use a surrogate. Be a single dad and marry a woman. It is the child custody that is the key.
    Eastern Europe and the Ukraine might be a good spot to move to. One thing we need to do is have discussions as we have for pulling pussy that involve good to high paying gigs in those countries. Even self employment type opportunities.

  14. For all of you thinking that they can leave this world on your own quietly – think again. Old age has its own ways! You’ll be crying for someone close to hold your hand when you’re bedridden with a crippling disease.
    God wants us to survive and multiply (in that order), so any healthy young man today who chooses not to become a father is nothing but MGTOW. Genetic dead end.
    The excuse that women are today toxic is true to a certain degree. Men don’t shy away from a challenge. I meet lots of good girls every day. Choose well and make sure you lead, then you’ll have a successful family.
    We need more white babies, come on, chop, chop!

    1. fuck that noise. God wants more white babies…tell him to make them himself.
      Fuck the nation and fuck the race.
      This is my life and I do not feel beholden to any group. I pay my taxes, do my job and what time and resources are left over are mine to do with as I please.
      For those of you who feel that having a child is a good use of those time and resources…great….I hope they enjoy them. But don’t put your shit ass burden on my life. I am too busy enjoying myself and being fucking awesome.

      1. Write that down and come back to me in 10 years (assuming, you’re in your 30s now).

        1. He’s not. He’s closer to my age.

        2. He’s in denial then or severely distracted by the noise of the big city.

        3. believe it or not, not everyone shares your beliefs. Some people think they are the asinine delusions of a weak man who wants to lean on something to make himself larger. I for one have no problem with people who find value and satisfaction in family. I don’t find that, but I can appreciate it in others.
          Your moronic diatribes about saving the race are just incredibly backwards and stupid. Why is it always morons who want to save the race by procreating?

        4. It’s ok man. We can ask the resident ninja to make a fresh brew of coffee and we talk about it.

        5. he made me coffee once and I told him it was really excellent. He responded thusly:
          I don’t need you to tell me how fucking good my coffee is, okay? I’m the one who buys it. I know how good it is. When Bonnie goes shopping she buys SHIT. I buy the gourmet expensive stuff because when I drink it I want to taste it. But you know what’s on my mind right now? It AIN’T the coffee in my kitchen, it’s the dead nigger in my garage.
          Which seemed odd because there wasn’t a dead nigger in his garage at the time.

        6. And I’m certain he was waving his Katana threatheningly while saying all of that.

        7. I know I’m just making conversation with some guys on a neomasculine website, but when some of them turn out to be fucking ninjas, it really motivates me to take back MMA training again.

        8. I think my reputation is slightly inflated. Everyone knows I train in various martial arts, so they automatically assume I can climb walls, kill people with a flick of the wrist, and disappear in a puff of smoke…not saying that I can’t do all those things mind you….

        9. don’t be so modest. We all know of your work in the temple

        10. That one is with the blue cheese. From my knowledge ninjas are lactose intolerant. They only eat sushi and drink coffee…FRESH COFFEE !

        11. I wouldn’t exactly call it killing people with a flick of the wrist. Maybe pre-people.

    2. Curious, isn’t your first paragraph the same thought that feminists use when they do the “You’re going to grow old and die lonely!” shaming thing?

      1. yes and there’s nothing wring with shaming. People have always done it. It’s how the moral codes emerged.
        If you do not encourage and shame your children should they choose not to multiply you’d be doing a bad job as a parent. Same with other people.

        1. I’m not stating that shaming is wrong. I’m noting that you’re using the same logic that feminists have taught women to use in order to get a guy to “man up!” and marry a whore “gladly”.

        2. Also, one with an intact family and siblings.
          People raised by single mothers are damaged and so are most only children. It’s not a natural environment to grow up in and leads to personality issues.

      2. “You’re going to grow old and die lonely!” shaming thing?”
        ^THIS with 1000 upvotes.
        If I only had a nickel for every time that solypsistic bullshit was thrown my way.
        Chances are a vast majority of people will die under circumstances where they are literally the only person in the room. And while I love kids and would love to meet a woman I trust enough to reproduce with and raise them, I’m not going to go to my grave bitter and dwelling on it if I never do. In fact is, the only woman I’ve ever met that would qualify in my mind, ironically couldn’t have kids and is terminally ill. While those aren’t the best circumstances, it sure beats having kids with the WRONG woman who could so easily ruin my life. And while that maybe the only time in my life that I can consider “love”, I’m good with myself enough to not live an unfulfilled life because I don’t find it again or fulfill my “genetic destiny” with a sub-par woman that is way too par for the course nowadays.
        As a man that is married and has kids, your understanding in this regard is greatly appreciated.

        1. It’s the women that worry about growing old alone. Not men, so women think men would feel the same way they do.

    3. You meet lots of good girls every day? Come on man, how superficial an argument can you make, lol. You don’t have any idea if they’re good girls or not.

  15. I am a married guy with 2 sons and one daughter. I met her 3 days after she turned 18, I was 24 at the time. She comes from a traditional background, has a good relationship with her family and is truly happy filling the wife/mother role in our household.
    I come home to a fully cooked meal every day, have sex as much as I want to, and she truly aims to please me at all times. She respects my role as the leader/provider, and I never once let my family down.
    I fix shit when its broken, I slap her on the ass when I walk by. I teach my sons how to be traditional men, and treat my daughter as a lady. They all know that the man leading them in life is there to do exactly what a man should, and all know that I demand respect more than “love”

    1. Bravo.
      Women have been propagandized that ‘submission is wrong and evil!’. What the trick is though, and that they don’t realize, is that yes, the woman submits to the husband however the husband, as provider and leader, submits his interest to the greater whole of the entire family. She’s getting the easier end of the deal. Feminists have totally mind fucked an entire three generations of women, royally.

        1. Raise’em right as a father is the only solution I know. The few women I know who are adults, who are peaches, already came pre-wired to not accept the feminist conditioning. They enjoy being women naturally.
          Also, if they’re on the fence with feminism, explaining it like I just did can in fact make them pause and think.

        2. I’ve seen my dad struggle with that conundrum for decades. I don’t know if there are any easy answers. Historically however, I think it takes a shock to the system. The roaring 20’s seen the flappers (feminists) and immorality. Divorce was on the rise, along with drug use. Then we had the Depression, divorce rates fell. World War 2 came, and men were needed and in short supply. Men became valued again, and traditional roles came back (for a time).

        3. I agree that one generally must be raised correctly by her parents, at least when speaking of women. I have seen men go from complete virgins to man-whores, and to a lesser extent they can also go the other way, but women are less easily changed.
          This may sound depressing, since one would need to throw out basically the entire Millennial generation, but one generation, in the grand scheme of history, is nothing. Start building it now, and by the time I’m ready to settle down, we should have an entire generation of submissive, loyal, virginal 18 year olds 🙂

      1. real biblical stuff. something like wives submit to your husband for the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church…..but later they get the payment with husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy blah blah blha
        Say what you want, those creepy old perverts knew how to run a marriage.

      2. Hehe some women do get it. My wife happens to be one.
        When I’m trying to work out the timing of when money comes in VS when big bills like taxes are due etc, she merrily doesn’t give two shits and usually seems to do something not useful on purpose. Like games on her mobile etc.
        Her responsibility is home, kids, and well, dinner.
        But she categorically refuses to play any major part in big purchase decisions like sofa/bed/etc. She just says if she doesn’t like something but that’s it.
        But that’s fine with me, I don’t mind deciding stuff. Funnier is when it has come up with colleagues where their reaction was one of horror. Married men, reacting in horror to being the one to pick a bed, saying the natural way is for both to choose and do the family stuff as equals blabla.
        I’m serious.
        Women on the other hand never reacted badly and usually flirt with me more or less.

      3. Plus women love submitting. They are much more comfortable having a man take responsibility for difficult decisions than do it themselves.

  16. How in the hell would anyone want to consider provider game in a country of worthless piece-of-crap females? Honestly Roosh, I think (respectfully) you are being a bit unrealistic.
    “You may hate the idea of children today, but tomorrow will come”
    Tomorrow = war. Seriously, I’m not sure I want to bring a child inro the world knowing my son or daughter will be facing major conflict, quite possibly WWIII.

    1. If you never give birth to them, you are not even giving them the possibility of being around after it.
      Besides, if you know your shit and have brains, having a family is wholly realistic.
      Guess how I know ;-).
      But my wife is “an import” from a very family oriented patriarchal society and culture. Nowadays air travel is cheap, you have the Internet, Skype, email, you name it.
      But you should be careful in your choice as a wife is not a cheap not easy to settle investment.

      1. “If you never give birth to them, you are not even giving them the possibility of being around after it”
        You have a valid point. But I think it might be too late. The majority of whites that I know either do not have children or are having 1 child, which is below the rate of sustainability (2-3 kids).

  17. My husband is the provider and I quit my job to raise our kids. Now my youngest is starting school in the fall and I am going back to work. The job is scheduled so that I can get the kids after school and still parent, clean, etc. I’m not doing it to try to stop him from being the provider or head of house, that’s his position. I’m doing it to save for our retirement and fund family vacations. So men that provide for their families… Keep up the good work, some of us treasure it.
    (I lurk and rarely comment – I know this is a male dominated space, so feel free to delete my input…I’m not trying to disrespect your site)

    1. good luck. the world is going to hell in a handbasket- hopefully you and yours arent in the first batch

      1. Thanks for the well wishes. It IS a crazy time to be alive, I’m doing all that I can to be a supportive wife and raise smart children.

        1. No you ain’t, buddy. You’re right there holding the fort with the rest of us.

        2. Ha, you don’t want to hand me a gun. The absolute best case scenario is that I wouldn’t hurt anyone with it.
          I simply will not fight the war for civilization. I plan to drink and fuck my way through it and if I am alive when it is done I will figure out a way to prosper under the auspices of the winners.

        3. The war for civilization is long lost.
          It’s the war for the ruins of civilization we’ll be fighting. Protecting the old Cathedrals and Castles that our ancesters left us and that we do not deserve. That and saucisson.

        4. I am on side tyler durden on this one:
          I wanted to breathe smoke. I wanted to burn the Louvre. I’d do the Elgin Marbles with a sledgehammer and wipe my ass with the Mona Lisa. This is my world, now. This is my world, my world, and those ancient people are dead.
          Well, not really, I just want to be fabulously wealthy so I can enjoy all that shit while the peasants pretend they matter and fight the wars. Barring that….Durden.

        5. I admire your apathy, however, the government says you don’t need a gun. That tells me you most definitely need a gun, at least to keep the zombies at bay when they get tired of assaulting and eating each other for heap TVs at Walmart at come after ya for food.

        6. I’ll give you 3 sluts if you defend the fort.
          No, make that a harem, a chest of golden dinars, and a team of ninjas to avenge your random frustrations.

        7. that sounds all well and good but do you currently earn close to 6.000-8.000 dollars on monthly basis doing an online job? If I am looking to work basic computer-based jobs for 2-5 hours a day from my home can I make valuable payment in the same time….Can I try this work?

      1. Not trolling! If I’m offended by an article I don’t comment and instead tell my husband about it. He rolls his eyes and asks me why I click on an article I know will make me mad… Which, is a very good point lol

        1. Well, he was raised by a pretty alpha guy and is definitely the head of house…. He doesn’t read internet articles (unless he missed an NBA/NFL game and needs stats) so his entire red/blue pill understanding would be based off of The Matrix. If I had to categorize him, I’d say he’s a natural red, although his love and respect of me MIGHT make some call him more of a “purple”.
          He’s my King and I’m blessed to have found him.

        2. I don’t think loving and respecting your spouse is necessarily “blue”. It’s when it reaches a level that takes him out of the position of leadership that it becomes a problem. Sounds like he’s doing it right though. Best wishes to your family.

        3. Not really. The fact that he knows she’s reading ROK and is pissing her off and she drags him into her bitching makes him a blue pill beta chump.

        4. I don’t bitch, I have too much respect for my husband…but clearly we won’t see eye to eye; therefore, best wishes to you and your loved ones.

    2. Thank you for your feedback.
      Keep up the good job.
      Your efforts are more than appreciated, most of us still search for a woman of your portrayed position.
      Make more children.

      1. Thank you. We’ve made a lovely boy and girl and I think we are done… Kids are expensive and the world is making it harder and harder to raise good kids. But I appreciate the sentiment! Take care.

      2. keep up the good job, P.S., live love laugh and breaking the no speaking to women rule…
        What is this John? Conan wouldn’t say this, bunch of slack jawed phaggots around here, Kratom made me into a god damn Sexual tyrannosaurus!

      1. Thank you sir. I follow your posts and find your love for your family very endearing.

    3. Think seriously if going back to work is worth it. The most important work you can do is within the walls of your home. An earlier retirement and fancy vacations are nice, but so is having the time to teach your children and not be exhausted and annoyed at their presence. The time they are at home is short, don’t waste it.

      1. Thank you for your input- my husband and I have talked it over and he is all for it; I wouldn’t do it otherwise. If it becomes too much and I am exhausted and crabby, I’m sure he will let me know, and I can quit! Truthfully, taking care of the house and dog isn’t a lot of work and I think I would be wasting my days online or watching tv if I wasn’t working. (The kids are napping now and my work is done, which is why I have time to read and comment!)

        1. hope for you your kids are in a private school, or their mind may end up poisoned with the liberal madness of our society.

        2. Two, actually. But I am the youngest by a decade, and, from my reading experience on this site, both would be considered “beyond the wall” despite their beauty.

    4. If I was your husband I wouldn’t let you come to post here with a sexy avatar, let alone going out to work with other men.
      Other than that, well done and now go back to the kitchen!

      1. Oops! Sorry, the kitchen is clean and the kids are napping… My avatar isn’t MEANT to look sexy, and my husband has full access to my phone and comments… But now that you mention it, I SHOULD go make the marinade for the meat that I’m cooking for dinner 🙂

        1. Amanda – you do look good in your avatar and you know it. Know this too. When you go back to work, chances are you will have a male boss.
          If you spend serveral hours a day working for a man who is not your husband it WILL weaken the link between the two of you. You can only have one master, you know.
          If you would work in my company I am 90% sure I would fuck you within less than a year. You may say this wont happen but i know chances are it will. Even if you think now otherwise. This is how nature works.
          If you want to do the best for your family you may want to consider working from home instead. Or get another baby. Or do both.

        2. Maldek, I’m no proponent of false modesty and certainly didn’t mean to imply I thought I looked bad in my picture, merely that it wasn’t meant to look “sexy”, just pretty.
          I appreciate your advice that I’m sure comes from a desire to protect the family unit. If you believe that there would be a 90% chance of sleeping with me, I’m guessing you’re going off of experience… That sounds about right as 90% of people seem to lack integrity or the ability to be faithful. My husband and I were together many years before children and I worked outside the home. I believe in overcoming any base “nature” that would compel me to betray my marriage.
          As I stated before, my husband is fully approving of my new job and of me returning to it; I wouldn’t dishonor him by doing something so major without his blessing.
          Thank you again for taking the time to give your advice and best wishes.

        3. You sound very reasonable. It looks like your relationship is in good condition and you understand your role as wife and mother better than most.
          Now go and have great sex with your guy, the world needs a lot more of your kind!

    5. Family Vacations?…If you are lucky your husband will treat you to one.
      …next you’ll want a bigger house and new car
      Take the Kids to the Park now and again as part of your motherly role….otherwise they should just be studying, learning skills etc.
      Your husband can decide if you need to go on holiday and fund it himself.

  18. Even alphas get cheated on with western women. She might even cheat with a wimpy beta because she was bored or you were too stern with her about any subject.

    1. western ALL WOMEN. Thinking EE or Asian girls are different is just utopian.

      1. awalt it is true.
        That sweet EE woman will be a fat American slob iwthin 6 months of you losing frame and not making sure she is scared to death of you.
        Sanislav has absolutely no fucking problem with turning around an busting his mouthy wife in the teeth. The fact that she knows this to be true is why he doesn’t have to. As soon as she sees how soft you are….get ready boy because you just got yourself an American who is going to bitch about you in 5 languages.

        1. Sham–MOOOOOOOO!
          Two birds, one stone.

        2. Hahaha, that’s why you employ isolation tactics. No mingling with the locals and keep her ass mostly at home.
          And yep she has to be scared of you. Actually I am inclined to say it’s best if people in general are at least a bit intimidated by you.

        3. I’m more like a gentleman at a buffet. I will take just a little bite and then move on

        4. I take the serving plate with me to the toilet, pour the contents into my underwear, then proceed to the kitchen, steal the recipe and set he rest if any on fire, and then flee the country.
          Only mine…. *rubbing hands*

        5. Ha. Funny thing…keeping with the analog…my favorite part of the meal is when I look back at the station I was at and someone else is there dining

        6. Hehe I’d do that, but I’d hog the dish long enough to know it makes you quesy and needing to go to the toilet… Then I’d step back and watch em pick the plate as it was already out for a good while in room temp 😉 ..

        7. Servicemen are the biggest beta chumps in the world. Their wives ALWAYS cheat. Like, the day after they’re deployed.

        8. During my time in the military, I don’t think that I saw a guy who got married while he was in, whose wife didn’t ‘blimp out’ following the birth of their first kid.
          (Gotta admit, though — those Filipinas know how to cook! Pancit, fried rice, lumpia…delicious!!!)

  19. Yesterday I saw a movie that could horrify the Devil himself: “Grandma”….with Lily Tomlin in the main role.
    First, I laughed…in utter disbelief that such an obnoxious scenario got produced without the label: Rated G – for “GROTESQUE”.
    As the movie went on…and the grandguignol of debasement proceeded…I realized ( when the only decent manly man in the movie was called “an ogre”) that that piece of sub-infernal visual faeces is actually a realistic depiction of….EVERYTHING which this site dislikes!! ))) So much so…that it could even be used for diagnostic or educational purposes….as in “to diagnose an idiot”…and as in “to educate a novice”. ))))
    It was as if Deva Roosh Himself descended from ROK, and took upon himself to write a scenario of a moving, contemporary, poignant dram….no, actutally it deserves a new name of the genre….like Socio-Gore…..or, Decline-Porn….))))
    EVERY female (and “female”…don`t ask) in the movie was scoring “Black Death” status (11) on the social malaise scala, going from “confused frown” (1) to “facial MRSA infection” (10). )))
    Needless to say that ANYONE giving ANYTHING (A breath mint! A subway token!…1 Cent! ANYTHING!) to such creatures, as depicted in the movie….deserves a century or two of body therapy and deep cleansing , under supervision and in the company of our very own SPA Grandmaster Marechal Gilles the Rais… :))
    SUPPORTING such pus-infested bearers of XX chromosomes would equal the crime of Grand Treason Of Masculinity, punishable by wearing a barbed-wire corset and culotte for all Eternity…)))
    Don`t pay for it, but see it …and feel free to thank me when you vomit. :)))))

    1. Lily Tomlin always was an arrogant feminist harpy — even back in the late 60’s when she was on “Rowan & Martin’s Laugh-In”.
      Only the Leftist Hollywood of today would make a film starring that misandric feminist POS. I hope that film bombs so badly, she’ll be ‘persona non grata’ in Hollywood for the rest of her life.

        1. P.s. (…not that so many years of life remain for that vile piece of souffrage gristle…)))

    1. A good man ALWAYS has options. Even when older. A woman doesn`t. Sorry. )))
      And if he is ready to give her the best years of man`s life….she better be up to reciprocating him. (i.e. under 24…..being older, I am even more strict, you see?…:))

    2. I see we’ve triggered the feminist trolls again. That’s how easy it is, men: all it takes is one assertion of traditional values. Their amydgalas simply cannot take it.

    3. And it’s also a major contributor to divorce! Spouses who are more than a few years apart in age are at a significantly higher likelihood to end their relationships after the first year.
      (Also contributing to the likelihood of divorce is when one or both of the spouses never completed an advanced education, and when one or both of the partners has been married before. So, anyone who wishes to have a happy, successful marriage should marry someone within five years of their own age; should have attained a university degree/should marry someone with a university degree; and not date divorced men or women.)

      1. Surveys show 98% of all statistics quoted by trolls on Internet sites are false.

        1. Really? I bet we’d all love to see your “surveys”. My guess would be you are exhibiting that deal that guilty people do, wherein they attribute bad behavior to others, when in fact it is they doing the bad behavior… in this case, it’s your lying and trolling that you attribute to others.
          It’s OK though, hardly anyone visits this site, so hardly anyone’ll see what you did there ツ

  20. A certain amount of analysis is understandable, but at some point all of us just have to take the plunge with someone and hope for the best. Prenuptial agreement is a must for protection.

    1. Just get a girl who doesn’t speak English and is too stupid learn. It’s safer than a prenup.

  21. A mother of a stack of kids with the same guy is very attractive to us, even if she is a 6. She displays the qualities of lovin the D, loyalty, motherly affection, and can likely burn in the kitchen. That’s why we fantasize about MILFs and shame single moms, big difference.

  22. OMG IVE BEEN TRIGGERED, I can’t believe you posted a picture of that man holding a cigarette in his mouth within 16.9 miles of that kid, THE HORROR of second hand smoke! Call 911!

  23. there is no such thing as an “alpha provider”. This guy is delusional beta with female tendencies.

    1. Yeah, all of our fathers and grandfathers were beta schlubs. That’s what makes you alpha now.

  24. I think Men should seriously strive at peacefully collapsing this system/economy first.
    Real money/banks, No USURY, real free markets/capitalism,
    real water, real food, real Culture, the release of all patented shelved free energy devices/plans AND full disclosure.
    Get all the power hungry homicidal maniacs out of positions of power first,
    in politics, controlled media, academia, especially soft sciences and dismantle the UN.
    Get rid of the military industrial complex.
    Without these bare minimum changes, it’s just gonna be the same old shit for another 5000 years and we can go on and on about how Alpha we are.
    We are birthed slaves with a number that corresponds to the stock exchange, your birth certificate is used by your government to borrow money against you as a depreciating asset and then they lend it to you and you pay interest on that.
    It is surprisingly easy to do……they are going to do it violently anyway.

    1. ^This. The solution is surprisingly simple: Don’t breed. Look at the mess Japan is in, because of this. As Japan goes, so goes the US.

  25. Well, well good article. Let me give you some feedback from the real life, been doing this for over a decade.
    A few years ago, when you had this moment of clarity regarding flags, I did mention the importance of children, if you remember. Now you understand, thats good.
    First lets look at your 7 points:
    1. She must be between 18-25 years old
    -> That is a GOOOOOD Idea.
    2. She must have less than three prior sexual partners
    -> Does not matter. This is vastly overhyped. Dont fall into this trap. What matters is that you are her last sexual partner. To ensure this she has to orgasm when you fuck her every fucking time. More than once. Half fucked women are bad, but half fucked wifes and mothers are something you do not want around you. Fuck her frequently (2 times/week minimum, when she is in the first half of her cycle a lot more than that) and make sure it good. nuf said.
    3. Her physical attractiveness should hover around the 7 range
    -> Thats a goood idea. But truth be told, the hotter the better. If you want to fuck her 20 years down the road, it helps if she is hot at the beginning. If she is a 6-7 at 45 thats an honorable goal. You will thank me later.
    4. Her skin tone should be within two shades of myself
    -> Take a white woman.
    5. She must be feminine
    -> It helps if she is. But if she is not you can mold her into it. If you are the leader of your domain, she will follow. She is the water, you are the mold. Never forget that.
    6. She must want to be a traditional stay-at-home mother
    -> Yes. After a year of relationship and after living together for at least 6 months. What women “want” prior to that is horseshit and you shouldnt listen. What she does counts more.
    7. She must believe in a god
    -> She will believe in whatever you believe. If you want to become satanist she will be your altar. If you want to join the church of scientology she will be your partner.
    Now to the next wall of text. Location. A VERY good idea. I did relocate to south america in 2009 if that gives you a general idea. But lets look at your points 1 by 1:
    1. What is the divorce rate of the country I want to have children in?
    -> Lower is better. But more important is the seize of the local goverments club. You will understand this later if you do not now.
    2. What are the divorce and custody laws like?
    -> More important than the laws is the option to bend the laws in your favor if need arises. Corruption comes to mind. You are the one with the money, remember?
    3. What have been the experiences of foreign men who have married there?
    -> Forget it. They are mostly stupid guys who make all sorts of stupid mistakes. Pick a mentor instead. A person who lives the life you would like to have. Listen to what he says and mimic what worked for him.
    4. What is the country’s birth rate and receptiveness to family formation? How do people view the nuclear family?
    -> Thats a good one. An old country like germany or japan for example is not the same as a country with an average age of 26. The later is better.
    5. Does the country have values that are multicultural and atheist or traditional and spiritual?
    -> Forget it. Values of others matter little. What about your mission in life?
    6. Will there be degenerate cultural forces that try to ruin the stability and happiness of my family?
    -> There ***ALLLLLLWAYS**** are. Better ask “how can i protect the stability and happiness AND THE PHYSICAL SAFETY of my family. Hint: Walls and guns work!
    One last item you did not mention. But you should. NEVER promise your future wife and mother of your children sexual monogamy. If you marry her and she can stay at home to raise her children you are providing her with a good life. If you also fuck her well it is possible she will want more sex than you. If you are 20 this may sound strange but wait until you are above 40 and you will understand. Nevertheless the day will come, WILL come with 100% certainty mind you, that you want to fuck another girl. When this day comes, you MUST be able to do so, without fear, with the secure realization that she will not go crazy in case she finds you.
    You do NOT ask her persmission to fuck other women, you make it clear before you have the first child (thats also before marriage!) that you will fuck other women from time to time. Thats not a question, you state a fact. Only if she is ok with that, you will children/marry her. Later you simply keep it quiet and do what alpha men do, whenever you lust for it. If you fuck her 4000 times over 20 years and thats all you want, even better. But if not, you know you can do it. Thats VERY important.

    1. Women with too many prior sexual partners lack the ability to pair-bond, man. This is a fact.
      Now, you may indeed be able to keep her chaste and married for however long you want. However, she still won’t properly pair-bond with you because her underlying biology has already committed her to a short-term mating strategy.
      It vastly reduces the quality of your relationship because the threads that sew her into the tapestry of it are too fragile and cannot support great emotional depth nor withstand rigorous trial.
      A girl’s prior sexual history is the most significant influence on your relationship quality.

      1. That’s why my wife is older than that range but had one short relationship prior to me, and she still lived with her parents until we got married.
        To me that is the single most important factor of all.

    2. Most of your “wisdom” is pretty divorced from reality, actually. Have you ever even been in a long-term relationship?

      1. Hey Bo Peep if you do a little google search you will notice that I do write about the topic since 2007/8. It is quite possible Donovan wrote about it in 2015 but I did so at least 5 years sooner.
        ” many prior sexual partners lack the ability to pair-bond, man. This is a fact.”
        -> Show me the facts. As long as we are not talking about 3x digits this is the least item to consider.
        Often I hear this from men who are weak or are afraid as an excuse why they can not get their relationships to work. Dont do that.
        It realy is 95% about you. Your inner strength and your true frame. Not the clown or actor frame you put up when you go to the club. Your true inner frame, who you are and how you live. The women are the water – you are the mold. For a thrill of the hunt man like Roosh, this can be quite the challenge.
        To answer your question above: Yes i do have 3 children and know my wife for more than 20 years. I do walk my talk. It does indeed work. Not only for me. Others have done the same. You could too, with some work.

        1. The facts. Have you seen those statistics that show how the more prior sex partners a woman has then the more chance of divorce? That’s a common one not hard to find on Google.
          I’ve seen more stats in evolutionary psychology books, though. They show that not only are virgin brides less likely to be involved in a divorce, but virgin brides also report things like a happier marriage, better sex life, more orgasms, more children – all this stuff is related to pair-bonding.
          I’m 10 years married with 2 daughters, by the way. My wife has been 100% chaste to me, but the truth is our marriage is pretty shit. It’s like she’s not THERE, not bonded at heart, not committed in her soul. No prizes for guessing why.
          Honestly, I’ve lost interest in her because of it. I’m throwing in the towel soon and leaving in search of a virgin bride in India. I know what I’m talking about from both evolutionary psychology and personal experience, and a girl’s prior sexual history is my primary concern this time round.
          I’m not a Beta, man. I’m tall, lean, and handsome with abs like oak, and I’m only 29, but importantly I’m fucking smart. You should listen to me. I take this so seriously that I’ll turn down a 10 if she’s a slut in favor of a skinny 6 if she’s a virgin. It does matter and it WILL affect the rest of your life.

        2. It’s good to hear you’ve got experience, though. Too many guys here rate their baseless opinions too highly. Gods, it irritates me when people talk about things they know nothing about!

        3. You sound like a reasonable person and you came to the right place. If you can swallow your pride for a moment and are willing to accept advice, you might be able to gain something here.
          First: thank you for providing data when I asked for it. Most people do not do that, they are too lazy or cowardly. That speaks for you.
          Now a few basics: Alpha has very little to do with your body. Only 1/7 of your alphadom comes from it. For women it is 90% NOT for us men. Beta on these boards does refer to men who are somewhat weak in their actions and often think or behave like women do.
          Now your data and claim: There is a well known example involving aliens and firemen. Aliens observe earth and find that whenever there is a fire, firemen can be found near it. So they conclude that by killing all firemen on earth, they will help humans get rid of those pesky fires.
          Often it is not what it seems at first glance. A virgin bride is a good thing, I have fucked virgin in my life and I have had sex with women who had over 20 other men, at times a LOT more than that.
          One thing that is true is, that the first 1-2 sex partners have a special place womens hearts. So do the first 1-2 men who were able to give her multiple orgasms or let her come from penetration alone.
          These are perks you get when you get a vergin or nearly vergin bride. BUT here is the key, this perk is not something that lasts for a long time. It may help a relationship to last a few months or a year longer than it would have lasted without it.
          Now to your situation: First you did marry very young. This is good for women but not-so-great for men. I do advice men to work on their life mission first, get some money and life experience and then marry between 30-35.
          But here we are and you do have 2 daughters. Leaving your wife will have consequences for your kids and your relationship with your kids. Maybe it would be worth considering all options first.
          If you are interested in some advice i will give it for free to a fellow rok reader. You can email me: [email protected]
          The most important question I always ask when doing counseling is this: (I understand you will not answer these here in public but for fellow readers it might be an item of interest WHERE to look first when they have problems in their marriage)
          How often did you have sex with your wife in the last 3 months?
          If it was 2 times a week or more on average your relationship is, at its core, ok. I am 99% certain we can fix it.
          If it was 1/week at least your relationship has seen better times and we need to do something about it. Still I am 70% confident we can fix it if you are willing to do some changes.
          If it was 1/month you are at the brink of divorce. Even with radical changes it might be too late. If there are no children i would advice to consider a new partner. If there are children (like in your case) there is maybe a 20% chance this can be fixed.
          If it was less than once a month your relationship is over. You have crossed the point of no return and should consult a lawyer at your earliest convenience. Make preparations (hide money now, you will need it later) for the worst and in 6 months from now you may be ready to make your move.
          These rules DO apply in the vast majority of cases. Drastic exceptions (like illness) would alter it but things like “little children, stress at work, busy scedule” do NOT.

        4. I consider an Alpha to be the man who a woman most desires. So he has to check 3 boxes to win this: Good looking (a great body is major here), resources/wealth, and dominance/status (muscly men often win here again because they dominate their social scene.
          What you’re failing to understand is humans have multiple reproduction strategies. They’re basically divided into short- and long-term mating.
          Men can switch between the two without any problems (i. e. be married but use whores on the weekend). This is because natural selection has favored opportunistic men who do all they can to maximize the number of sex partners they obtain because sex = babies and reproductive success for men.
          Women are different. In evolutionary ancestral populations, a single sexual encounter can result in pregnancy and this can affect a woman for the rest of her life. Because of this, women have evolved to take their reproduction strategies much more seriously and they CANNOT just switch between short- and long-term like men can. Also, you have to realize that the long-term mating strategy is the primary desirable strategy for a woman. Women only begin the short-term strategy after they assess it’s their only viable reproductive option (and this is inevitably accompanied by an unconscious perception of her low mate value because, unconsciously, she’s aware of her inability to attract a long-term mate).
          So, once a woman starts slutting around, you need to consider how and why her biology is reacting to this. We haven’t evolved to compensate for contraception yet, so unconsciously her biology is saying, “You’re getting pregnant, girl. You’ve got no long-term mate, so get resources from these men. Get money. Get everything you can.” It’s simply an appalling strategy for a woman to be in, and the problem is that she becomes COMMITTED to it. She’s got no choice but to commit to her strategy, because babies and the burden of motherhood should be following and she’s evolved to handle that.
          I’m simply not convinced that once a woman gives up on long-term mating strategy due to relationship failures in her teens and begins short-term she can ever come back. She’s locked in for life. She can TRY to go long-term, but there will always be a shallowness in it from the scar of her youth where it unconsciously clicked that she was a low value mate.
          About my wife: We’ve not had sex in 3 years since she was pregnant with our youngest! LOL How’s that measure?!
          Something you probably didn’t expect, though: She’s 8 and a half years older than me. I’m 29, she’s 38.
          She was hot and fertile when I first met her 10 years ago and I just thought “so what if she’s older than me?!” and I fucked her senseless. But those hot and fertile years are in their twilight now, whereas I’ve just hit my prime. By all the laws of Alphaness, it’s time to move on.
          I don’t need to lawyer up, though, because I’m not a MGTOW. Only MGTOW men get divorce raped. She’s agreed to all my terms and that’s that. It’s done and settled without a single blink. Our girls will be shared evenly between us and we’ll taken care of.
          My plan now is to, later this year, go on a trip to India and seek out an impoverished but super hot teenage Desi girl. I like my chances. Given the age of consent from my home country of New Zealand is quite low, I’m able to seek out a fairly young bride, and I imagine she’ll be a virgin or close enough. It won’t be hard.

        5. This is a great discussion indeed.
          “It’s simply an appalling strategy for a woman to be in”
          -> Yes it is. But i do disaggree in one thing. You are familiar with K-selection and R-selection I assume.
          Women are kinda fixed in there reproductive strategy at a very young age. And it is a race thing. Blacks for example favor many fathers strategy much more than say asians or caucasians (white).
          A women who had multiple partners in the past is perfectly able to go long-term if you are her best option AND you do have children together. Wise men did calculate one child every 3-5 years is what a fertile woman needs.
          If she has less than that she will consider her partner as “sterile” and he will loose value in her eyes making her more open to get some fresh sperm on the side. All women of all races have this basic program.
          About your wife: I am sorry but there is no way to fix that. Good sex is the basic most important foundation any relationship is built on. You are a young man and you are near your SMV peak, you do deserve better.
          Young is indeed better but indians wouldnt be my first choice. But if thats what you lust for, by all means i wish you the best of luck.
          An interesting question to ask yourself so you can avoid the same shit happening again. And i do say this with deep respect. You are educated and more grown on the subject than most. But nevertheless I think there is a good chance the same sexless marriage might happen again if the cause for this is not found and fixed.
          3 years without sex does not happen out of the blue. Her age is NOT the problem. I am a few years older than you and my wife is over 45. Her sex drive between 35 and 45 has increased (!) and that is not unnormal for women.
          It is nature and logic. If you have a 30% chance to get preg from 1 fuck you can afford to go slow. If your chance is down to 2% however you better fuck a lot, if you get the general idea. Post menopause, this may be a different story but that happens for most women at 50+ and does not apply to your woman from 35-38.
          Now that we can exclude the age as a reason, the real reason why this happened must be elsewhere. So what happened?

        6. Look, I am agreeing that a woman can switch from short-term mating strategy to long-term and do reasonably well, but I’m just pointing out that her prior promiscuity puts her at a disadvantage when instinctively blending into her new life-style and there will be a lot of manual relationship maintenance required to cope with this fact, and this can be tiresome and is best avoided from the beginning by selecting a virgin bride where possible.
          What’s wrong with Indians? I like the mocha skin, and the Hindu garb of traditional girls is very attractive. Also, English is commonly spoken in India and I figured that will be beneficial when negotiating with the girl’s family to marry her and remove her from the country (because she’ll be very young if I’m any part psychic, so having good communication will help reassure them of her safety).
          I actually have a more ambitious plan, though. After I get an Indian bride, I’m going to Beijing, China, to look for a second bride, a Chinese one. I’m determined to forge a polygynous marriage.
          I plan to write books on it, actually. I’ll write guides to finding SE Asian brides, plus tips on polygyny thrown in. I’ve lived in SE Asia for 10 years already, so I’m pretty well equipped to write such stuff so long as I can get the source experience to base it on. I’ll photograph the entire quest and use the photos for the book.
          So I’m curious what country would be better? I figured India and China because both countries culturally place a low value on their daughters, so impoverished girls without education are basically trained from birth to hone in like mosquitoes on men like me because they’ve got few other opportunities to look forwards to.
          I stopped having sex with my wife because she was pregnant. After the baby came out we just never re-started. I’ve tried to initiate sex a few times and she’s been unresponsive. She complains that we don’t use contraception and says she doesn’t want to get pregnant again. I’ve lost attraction to her because of her age, so I don’t push her. If she was younger I’d definitely force her, so I don’t think I’ll have the same problem with my next wife/s because I won’t accept their refusals.
          Also, she doesn’t like the fact that I fuck her ass virtually every time we have sex. I suppose I’m guilty of being a bit selfish in bed, you know. I have a feeling that younger wives will be more tolerable of a sexually selfish man. That’s a real problem with older women – the seniority reversal causes problems with her submitting to her man as a dominant leader. I’m looking forwards to younger wives because of this – because I want to treat them like Barbie dolls like a relationship is meant to be.

        7. Ha who had thought that, we do have a lot of things in common it seems. Your plans and goals all sound reasonable and this could work out well.
          Follow through with your plans and you should do fine. Martial arts (even though my style is WT Kung FU what is more brutal self-defense than sport) is very important for boys and getting a bruise here and there helps them not becoming a gay-loving leftist liberal whimp.
          Also I like your take on non-monogamy. The fact that you didnt have sex with your wife because you lost attraction is by far the best reason not to have sex as a man.
          I will be looking forward reading your book.

        8. I’ll advertise my book through RoK if I can, so you should hear about it here.

    3. I think you’re vastly over valuing your experience there.
      How is seeking a less damaged partner a trap? How is it even related to orgasm frequency? For me and most likely others it’s about standards(if I don’t slut around I expect the same from her) and the fact that more partners degenerates a womans mentality.
      Hotter generally means more attitude problems. Also has nothing to do with how she’ll look at 45, that’s more lifestyle and self maintenance than how hot she is at 20.
      Have you seen the white chicks lately?
      That’s easy if shes a submissive bitch, but with all the you go girlism it takes more effort than simple bossing her around. But yes, lead and they generally follow.
      Actions mean more than words. Give her an option to take the easy road (stay at home mum) and she’ll be crazy not to take it.
      Much the same as 5, if her family has strong cultural and religious ties you can’t ‘mold’ her away from that. Obviously being the same religion helps immensely, but good luck doing that with the less common denominations.
      I don’t want to be one of those ‘the world’s changed grandpa’ people, but that’s how it is from a mid 20’s perspective. In saying that though I agree the only thing we can do is lead. Everyone wants to be led, be that leader and people will follow. The only problem is that women gonna be women.

      1. 2 “How is seeking a less damaged partner a trap?”
        Because I often hear it as an excuse for lack of success instead of confronting the problem. Often the problem is low passive value, lack of game etc. Many are are quick to point a finger at “slutty women” or “leftist goverments” thats easier than work hard and improve yourself and that exactly is the trap.
        3 “how hot she is at 20.” Are you a troll? How many women who are 4s with 20 will end up 6s with 45+? It is hard enough for a woman to be a 6 with 45 when she started out as a 7/8/9/10 at her prime.
        5 If a woman is not willilng to submit to her man, there is no point in marriage or children. Low end FB at best.
        6 exactly and we do not want a crazy mother of our children, do we?
        7 Much the same as 5. If the woman is more loyal to her parents/brothers/cousins than she is to you, she is not really yours. Chances are you are the beta into the clan or her alpha dad/grandpa.
        If her family is like that, you will have to seperate her from them. This may require some strength. Dont expect her alpha dad to let her go freely. Let the war horns shout. No joke, you will be his arch enemy.
        “The only problem is that women gonna be women.” Not a problem at all. The more masculine you are, the more feminin your woman will become.

        1. >2
          Yes a lot of people bitch about sluts and whores instead of doing something about it (implying we can make them unfuck those dicks, heh), but implying it’s a trap to have standards and that we need to accept sluts and whores and need to man up, is bullshit.
          Don’t be facetious, I was talking about 6-7’s in relation to 9’s-10’s.
          Yeah, true.
          Why the fuck would you intentionally try destroy a family? Creating drama for the sake of drama is hardly alpha.
          You aren’t going to turn a dyke into a feminine woman, you will make an already feminine woman more feminine though.
          And all this means nothing if shes sucking dick when you’re at work, inb4 “but you need to be more alpha and she wont”.

        2. “Because I often hear it as an excuse for lack of success instead of confronting the problem. … Many are are quick to point a finger at “slutty women” …”
          That’s not what’s happening here, though. Many guys just don’t want sluts, and for good reasons that are backed by both psychology/biology and statistics, as I pointed out before.
          “7 Much the same as 5. If the woman is more loyal to her parents/brothers/cousins than she is to you, she is not really yours.”
          I agree here. My advice is to separate the girl from her family after marriage – just live somewhere else. Once you’ve got her isolated she basically just becomes yours in every way. This is multiplied if you get a SE Asian bride who barely speaks English and take her out of her country – that’s my plan for my next bride.
          I’ve just got no patience for compromise anymore, and why should I? I give these impoverished Asian girls the opportunity of a lifetime – a marriage with a relatively wealthy, sexy young white man who’ll take them on a honeymoon to Beijing and let them live in the West afterwards. I pay for the whole damn thing, so it’s only reasonable to expect that be repaid with unparalleled commitment.

        3. There is one last thing. It is one and a half thing in fact.
          Your children will be mixed race white/asian and that is a horrible (as in lowest value) mixture for a male.
          If we put this aside (even if its more important than you think now) I do sense a general problem in the form of lack of understanding how women work.
          You will *NEVER* let me repeat *NEVER* experience true
          gratitude from a woman. Any women, no matter if vergin or african or asian. You can pay her sick mothers med bill for example. You saved her mothers life. She will love you for it. Her entire family will love you. You are the hero, you provide them poor chinese guys with access to modern health care they otherwise would not have. You are AWESOME.
          You will get tons of sex. She will do everything to please you.
          A few years pass. She is now in the US and every other guy can provide the same. You are no longer something special. Dont expect your good deeds of the past to count a dim. If she gets a better offer, she will leave you. What happened in the past may count for a man (bros before hoes, you hear me) but it is a non-issue for women.
          The most solid foundation is when she knows her life and the life of her children will be worse without you. Then she will be loyal and take good care of you.
          The second best foundation is if she fears you. She understands you can smash her face when she betrayes you and she knows you have the guts to do so without as much as a blink.
          If you build on “mutual love” or “gratitude” you have lost. The more options a woman has (read: hot, young and fertile) the more important this becomes.
          Best and last advice for you:
          Dont be naive, be an asshole instead.
          With these words i wish you all the best for your future life. Good luck!

        4. I’m a former Muay Thai fighter, man, and I might get back into it next year. I’ll be teaching my sons how to KO any man in 1 punch, okay. They will be Alpha males and everybody will know it. Their mongrel race won’t matter.
          As for the second point: I don’t use contraception. Not ever. What does this mean? It means that when I finally settle in the West with any woman, she will have several children and be pregnant with an eighth and, besides being utterly reliant on me, no other decent man will want her because of all those kids. There’s absolutely no way a wife like that could or would even think about betraying her man.
          Plus, I doubt I’ll teach them proper English, so they’ll never be able to communicate with anybody else, anyway. LOL I think Thai will be our relationship language!
          Plus, although I don’t hit women, yeah, they’d be afraid to cross me for other reasons.
          So save the divorce-rape counseling for MGTOW boys. It’s not something I’ll ever need to deal with.

      2. “Have you seen the white chicks lately?”
        Fucking LOL!
        Yeah, man. With the rare exception I encounter a Christian girl, I just pretend white chicks don’t exist. I look at them with the same disinterest I look at a man.
        On the occasion a white chick talks to me, I immediately turn the conversation to feminism and abortion and tell her how foul I think they are. If – by some miracle – she’s still talking to me after that Hell-sent shit-test then yeah, I might finally notice her.
        Good points you’re bringing up anyway, man.

  26. No reason to want kids. Sure, you’d be a great dad, but so would other people. The fewer people the better. Your genes aren’t essential for the future. Enjoy your life.

  27. Witches will crucify us for being so selective. So what? Can’t we have high-standards too? A family and breed isn’t something you do with the random Joe next to you? It’s like buying property! Outweigh pro’s ‘n cons.. and actually afford do calculate the risks from each possible angle. I’d say don’t marry unless you can either profit hugely from it (inheritance, citizenship of a country that can benefit you in the long run) or if only there is virtually zero risk of losing everything you achieved.

  28. Point 4 (traits a girl must have) doesn’t matter to me as I love exotic girls and point 7 is obviously totally irrelevant to me.

  29. I have wanted this article for so long…
    I have also wanted to know for a similar amount of time- is it possible to become an alpha provider in the above manner without first being a typical a “leave-’em-and-forget-’em stud “ Alpha male (I.e. redpill, masculine, good leader, patriarch, despises feminism, understands the true nature of women et al.)?
    Though I was the ultimate mangina as of two years ago, and I don’t deny it (mine was the uncannily, embarrassingly stereotypical story of the lovestruck teenager who worshipped at the feet of his high school crush who in reality was a slag), I have nonetheless since coming to university become significantly more masculine and far more redpill, RoK was a huge part of this for which I’m thankful, even though I don’t agree with everything that is written here nor totally subscribe to every tenet of its philosophy. At this stage if I wanted to I could fuck my way around with abandon, and indeed have had many opportunities to do so, which I have refused on account of my Christian faith. I know many of you were thinking as you read that part that I’m just a beta-mangina making excuses for my lack of success with women, and to an extent you’re right, at least you would have been until recently- I still have some very beta habits and tendencies that need to be overcome and I won’t make any grand claims to alphadom at this time, but I’m no mangina; I’ve overcome and rejected the odious pussy worshipper I used to be. Still no matter how much more redpill and neomasculinist I become nor how much more masculine I strive to be, I will not betray my God by taking advantage of the pussy that is on offer to me until I am married, after which I shall seek to be the ultimate alpha provider. My question then is this: Does my continued, now-voluntary celibacy, notwithstanding the fact that it was involuntary in the past, disqualify me from one day being an alpha provider?
    And give me a brutally honest answer, I have no respect for mollycoddlers, no matter how much I disagree with them, nor how much they would soften the blow.
    Do excuse the long, testimonial post, but I really needed to get that off my chest.

    1. Mormon women. There’s your solution. Mormon women will appreciate your spiritual convictions. They seek alpha providers. They are very beautiful (have you been to Utah?). Many still marry young and most want children, even many, while assuming traditional roles as homemakers while honoring fidelity and following a strict religious set of guidelines for health and sexual purity. Mormon women!! I know because I am one and live among them and we are the ultimate wives! Abstain from promiscuity? Check. Avoid drugs and alcohol? Check. Marrying as a virgin is the rule not the exception? Check. America’s best homemakers, child bearers and cooks in one woman? Check. Most inclined to seek a life of homemaking and while wanting to be adored and cherished like any woman, values marriage and fidelity as the goal of all goals? Checkkkkk. We are the hidden treasure. Modern America’s flawed, feminist mentality mocks Mormons but it’s your loss!

      1. Agreed, with one caveat, if you are going that direction, you have to jump in with both feet, or not at all.
        I joined the church at 23. The first year, I was looked at as the new guy, or that I was just doing it for the girls. Of the girls that I was able to date then, most eventually dropped out of the church or were more flakey. Their conviction wasn’t there. When I switched schools, things were better. I could get dates from higher quality girls, but most would question why I hadn’t served a mission. Then, at 26 I served a mission and returned at 28. At that point, I could get anyone I wanted. Within a year, I married one of the girls you described.
        I’ve seen guys go to church for the girls. When their interest in the church wanes, so does the girls’ interest in them. Even if they do manage to fake it and marry some high quality girl, it won’t last. An unequally yoked marriage in the gospel is doomed for failure.

      2. Did I mention I don’t plan on marrying outside my religion? Of course if I could successfully lead one of you away from the heretical cult of Mormonism then it would be a win-win situation all-round, but as I live in the UK I highly doubt that such an opportunity will present itself.
        The Lord will provide.

        1. Kudos for not marrying outside your religion. That only works for Christians in name only. Best of luck to you.

        2. People that attend church only on Christmas and Easter, if that. They don’t take their religion seriously. Kind of like RINO’s are Republicans in name only.

        3. Indeed, we call them “Nominalists” within Evangelical circles. So just to clarify, do you mean inter-faith marriages only work in the case of nominalists? You have my thanks!

    2. I’m in a boat not so different from yourself. It is my firm belief that you can indeed be an alpha provider without first being someone who uses and discards women for their own pleasure.
      But I have the same issue of I haven’t seen the other side of it, I can only see things from my own perspective. I have lurked on Return Of Kings for quite some time and of all the accounts I’ve read of people who have seen the other side of the issue they seem to not be impressed with the player lifestyle. In fact some go so far as to say it has a deleterious effect on the ability to bond with a potential mate.
      In the end I think we all have to make our own choices about what kind of person we want to be and what kind of path we wish to tread. Many times this past will not be easy and it may not be well worn but that makes it no less worth walking.

      1. I hear ya. I mean ultimately the opinions of others, including RoK users, has no defining effect on me, but that doesn’t mean I don’t value the views of those who actually believe that men should be masculine and women should be feminine, unlike the toxic, feminist-corrupted world in which we live.

    3. “disqualify me from one day being an alpha provider?”
      Yes to some degree. It is a weakness.
      A male vergin is the same as a female with high notch count.
      Your value as a man goes up, the more pussy you slay while the value of a female goes down the more dick she sucked.
      Both can be fixed with time. You can get your experience inside your marriage while a former slut can become a decent mother and wife.
      It can be done but it is easier if the woman has a notch count below 10 and the man a notch count above ~5 but certainly above 0.
      What makes matters worse is the fact that any good relationship STARTS with sex. Its the core foundation everything else is built on. If you marry first, how the hell do you know if she is even on the same wave as you when it comes to sex?
      What i do advice young men is to focus on career and life mission first but slay pussy on the side. With around 30 you are near your SMV peak and you have enough experience in life so you know what to look for in women when you pick your future wife and mother of your children.
      Your god is not going to help you if you fuck up your life by making the wrong choices and go blind into the minefield that is modern day marriage.

      1. The first few paras seem straight, but I could not disagree more with what you said about sex being the start and core of a relationship. And “on the same wave”? What the heck does that even mean? I constantly hear vague terms like that (“sexual compatibility” is another) but am yet to be given an adequate (or indeed, detailed) definition of what they entail.
        I said “The Lord will provide” not “The Lord’s Providence exonerates me from having to actually put the effort in to learn game, find a good woman, and enact redpill wisdom in order to survive said minefield”

        1. “I could not disagree more with what you said about sex being the start and core of a relationship.”
          Marcus you lack the experience to disagree. It is true, everything else is a nice extra. No sex = no relationship, friendship maybe but nothing that counts in the only market that rules them all. The sexual marketplace.
          “What the heck does that even mean?”
          It can mean a lot of things. Like the woman likes the same type of sex you do. Like rough sex with a dominant male. Or she like sex about as often as you do. If she like to fuck every other week but you would like to have sex 3/week the two of you will not be happy and the relationship has very little chance to survive. Or she like to experiment with toys or anal or oral or bondage but you only want to do vanilla sex (like missionary position) in the dark etc. It means a lot.
          People who have plenty of sexual encounter will find out after a little while what they do like and what not. Then they match long term with a parnter who has about the same needs or wants. Makes sense, does it not?
          The Lord does provide you with opportunity. If you use it or not is up to you. Some things can be learned from books, other things must be trained by practise. Game needs a lot of practise and so does sex. You will never master something by not-doing it.
          If you are a róokie and you enter the minefield of modern day marriage your chances are not good. Even masters struggle frequently but at least they have a chance.

        2. I’m going to both agree and not agree here. I do think a man need to be experienced, but not necessarily with his wife to be.
          I’m married and we didn’t have sex before we were married. I know what I want and that’s how we roll. I don’t frankly care what she likes really, it’s not up to her.
          The reason a man should have experience is the confidence that it gives.

  30. It’s almost to the point where you are better off finding a specimen, reproducing with her, then just leave and send in the child support checks. At least that way you will avoid attachment to your marital assets, since there was no marriage to destroy in the first place. You may even be able to get visitation rights this way, even though that’s a shitty way to raise a family.
    Fact is marriage is a heads I win, tails you lose arrangement – a one sided transaction in the west. It’s no no wonder guys are avoiding it like the plague. Even a well drafted and executed prenuptial agreement runs the risk of being tossed out by some pissed off post-wall femicunt judge. Tread carefully, gents.

  31. Good luck with that. Most people need two sources of income just to make rent, that goes for professional work too.

  32. You’ll have to change your citizenship to that country that still have a strong patriarchy to evade the western laws that will confine and strip you away though. Women regardless of origin have had a taste of Americanization/Westernization and with your influences they will actually adopt your traits and try to act like you.

  33. I kinda lean against it. A woman should know that she’s living on the man’s largesse, but at the same time that she in no way deserves/earned it. It’s part of the manly virtues of charity and love. But also keeping in mind that you’re working on those things because of the Red Pill, you gotta remember that you’re earning more than you need because of the lifestyle you want and are building. So the girl is only along for the ride, and can pay her way as much as possible.

  34. “She must have less than 3 prior sexual partners”
    You mean less than one. Don’t buy used goods

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