This matrix was conceived and refined through social fire after 18 months of debate with my local Return Of Kings brothers, wife and friends. It is a simple method for understanding what type of man you are and thus your social standing. None have disagreed with its underlying premise.
Female judgement is unkind and unrelenting. Identification of both personal flaws and the deficiencies of those around you is critical to your success with women. These unpleasant truths derived from honest introspection should impel you towards self-improvement. Readers should note the advice provided is inherently biased towards marriage. If you are a PUA, this matrix is still useful for self-appraisal.
Respect is key
Everybody knows men and women are judged by different standards. Women judge men on one criteria alone. Respect. Can she respect you or not? A woman will determine this within the first few minutes of meeting you. Disrespect entails being regarded as an insurance policy, an understudy to the preferred man, or as a continuous line of emotional and financial credit.
Next, you must decide if you respect women to determine your position. Respect for women involves truly caring about their wellbeing. Do not be fooled! Respect does not equate to female idealization. Instead, men who raise their daughters and mold their wives into virtuous women, forsaking feminist harlotry, uphold the ultimate respect for women. Desiring the degradation and downfall of all females is the ultimate disrespect.
The visual representation of these concepts enables personalities to be mapped. There are two extremes on the horizontal axis, respected by women and disrespected by women. The vertical axis contains respects women and disrespects women. The resulting quadrants represent the four main archetypes: (1) white knight, (2) loser, (3) player/PUA and (4) husband material.
So where do you stand? The rationale for each archetype is outlined below. Remember, your current position is not fixed and movement between categories can occur through conscious effort.
The masculinity matrix. Forget Myers Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) testing, this will get you further in life.
1. White knights (respects women, disrespected by women)
The primary goal of the white knight is to please women in the hope of getting into their pants. A commonly employed but fruitless tactic is being overly permissive. Women capitalize upon this ‘nice guy’ attitude. You are described by women as nice, sweet, cute but never sexy, hot or manly. Women identify white knights as boys or worse still, girlfriends. Men see them as manginas, male feminists or beta orbiters.
The world has lied to us. Being an attentive sympathetic ear or emotional tampon will never garner respect from women. You serve instead as a pseudo girlfriend or call bitch. This deception is promulgated by movies, TV and beta orbiter songs. The storyline where the hot girl finally realizes the beta’s worth after she’s had her ‘fill’ of bad boys has no basis in reality. This only occurs after she has no further options. Disrespect leads to immediate rejection as a potential sexual partner.
White knights: she says she is talking to her mother, but she is really laughing at you with one of her lovers.
This upper-left quadrant is a trap for many young men. Fortunately, there is great potential for positive change. To overcome this disability, I offer the following advice;
Be a benevolent dictator: Be loving but in charge. Decide on the small things, such as where to eat and what she can wear. This includes defining the relationship early and common goals. The following applies to long term relationships. Quickly resolve differences in outlook since future problems don’t disappear. You decide if and when you want kids, how many, what you both value and wish to focus on (lifestyle, God, family, work and money). Stick to your principles and be uncompromising!
Become the best version of yourself: Girls want guys they can esteem privately and publicly. Having a good job and financial security is great, but not everything. Confidence and other intangible characteristics are of higher value. No girl wants to show off a passive, emotional, skinny man-boy (who doesn’t lift), regardless of wealth or profession. Don’t sacrifice your individual character to suit her demands. Become the best version of yourself and she will want you more.
Be direct: Always be direct about what you want physically and emotionally. Girls want you to lead. If you fail, you will be taken for a ride (and not a sexy one).
Set boundaries: Have relationship rules. Make actual, literal rules. Punish bad bitch behavior accordingly. All girls will ‘shit test’ you to gauge your boundaries. Be firm and resolute. If she doesn’t have daddy issues, be like a loving yet stern father and she will respect you. If she disrespects herself, she will feel undeserving of love and will reject you. In that scenario, act like a bad boy with a heart of gold. Accomplish this and your future capability as a father will be undoubted. Exploit her father figure issues if your goal is casual dating. She searches for love and will attempt to please you to obtain it. If seeking a husband, she will evaluate if you are fit to be the father.
Do not fear: Girls sense fear. They see it as weakness. Girls want a protector, both physically and intellectually and a provider who is resilient in stressful times. They are relieved they can rely on you rather than their ‘careers’.
Do not be lukewarm: God did not call men to be lukewarm. Choose a side and accept both the resulting animosity and praise. You are probably a fence sitter or doing something wrong if people don’t hate you. Be on fire ideologically, romantically and physically. Tone down that personal filter. Don’t see life as the mitigation of risks, but decide what is worth risking.
White knights: Pack up your crap, you need to move out of this quadrant.
Losers (disrespects women, disrespected by women)
The bottom-left quadrant is a devastating category to be in; a hole from which few escape. These men are typically here by default. They include the nauseating stereotypical ’30 year old basement dwelling virgins’. They are intellectually blunted, physically weak and immature (think the herbivore men of Japan). They disrespect people in general and certainly do not deserve respect. They are characterized by their sheer enjoyment in seeing women (and to a lesser extent men) suffer. They brood in hatred, much like Elliot Rodgers. He felt the world owed him so he killed several women because they ‘deprived him of sex’.
Elliot Rodgers, right before he went his own way.
It is my belief this group has polluted the MGTOW and MRA movements. Their misguided hatred stems from an external locus of control, placing blame on others rather than themselves, where it truly lies. It is the few from this group that casts a spectre of weakness upon the MRA and MGTOW movements. My advice is simple;
You are your own enemy: Instead of blaming the world for your problems, take a look in the mirror. After which, follow all advice previously mentioned. I won’t hold my breath.
Losers: Unless you get off that couch you are not going anywhere.
Players and pick up artists (disrespects women, respected by women)
Players understand how to gain a woman’s respect. A good physique, confidence and smooth execution of game yields results. Why are women drawn to these attributes? Women are psychologically split, the most common being the virgin/whore complex. They long to be protected and cherished like a virgin but treated like a whore in the bedroom. This fracture is widened further through psychological issues stemming from childhood, such as abandonment or mistreatment from a father figure. The previous quadrants are unable to satisfy both sides.
Women want to be Ariana Grande, Britney Spears or Madonna, depending on which era they were teenagers. These female ‘artists’ began with an initial virginal phase which progressed into overt harlotry. An example is Taylor Swift’s gradual metamorphosis from princess to a mentally borderline slut. White knights are able to satisfy her virginal side by treating her like a princess. PUA’s are also able to satisfy this superficially through offering alpha male protection. Her inner whore then emerges through various psychological PUA techniques. The white knight is too nice to be able to bang her in accordance with her self abusive desires, leaving her slut side unsatisfied.
The inner female psyche is split into virginal princess and slut components. Crazy connects the two.
Players/PUA’s do not or cannot respect women. Some may legitimately hate women. This may be due to longstanding experience in witnessing and taking advantage of their debauchery, eroding trust in them.
Knowing this, players have no compunction in using women. Although respected by women, they take advantage of women who cannot respect themselves enough to keep their legs shut. My advice is this;
There is more to life: At some point you will need something more fulfilling than banging gullible/broken girls. You might be content with your current lifestyle, but this desire may creep up upon you later. Luckily, you have 80% of what it takes to manage a wife and family. You possess confidence, power and leadership, which take time and effort to develop. Men, like women, also have a peak. Women peak in their early 20’s but men peak in their mid 30’s. Don’t waste your opportunity and fall off the proverbial cliff.
I haven’t personally experienced this transition, having left the white knight quadrant myself. However, I’ve been given sound advice by those who have. Ensure you keep your head, act slowly and cautiously when you make this change. The overwhelming euphoria associated with growing past banging dirty whores places you in danger of jumping head on into the first relationship. Resist this urge and keep your game, but play for keeps.
Act early: Find a young woman and STAMP out her inner feminist. Deprogram her from years of propaganda and lead her into becoming a virtuous, self-respecting mother and wife. Young women today avoid marriage, being seduced by false independence from a ‘career’, TV apartment lifestyle and rampant consumerism. This continues until they hit a watershed at 30-35. Young women are malleable up until approximately 25. Any older and they’re almost destined for the reject pile due to ingrained feminist ideologies.
Players will encounter less resistance transitioning to husband material.
Husband material (respects women, respected by women)
These men are leaders in their own right and command respect within their family and also the community. This archetype is also identified as the alpha provider role. This is the ultimate version of the man all husbands and fathers should strive to become.
Understand that being married doesn’t make everyone automatic husband material. PUA’s are superficially dissimilar to husband material, but not much separates the two. Both groups are respected by women and understand game, but each apply it to different ends. Those looking to be a husband use it to find and maintain a virtuous partner compared to short term physical gains. Articles on ROK offer seemingly contradictory advice, endorsing banging stupid sluts while simultaneously condemning promiscuous women. This is because ROK caters to men from both of the right quadrants.
This role requires reflection and self-improvement. The transition will be easier for PUA’s to achieve, being already respected by women. White knights will find it excruciatingly difficult to overcome potentially decades of feminist brainwashing. It will feel unnatural to place a woman into submission, but it is central to their success as future fathers and husbands.
Not naturally occurring, but man made. Men naturally lean towards White knight-dom or the PUA/player state.
Respect, respect, respect
Honestly appraise your own position. Personally, I spent too much time deteriorating in white knight territory. Transitioning to the top right quadrant took years of introspection and self-motivation. I advocate for men becoming the alpha provider, but being in any right quadrant improves all aspects of life, from your career to success with women. Whichever path of self-improvement you take, don’t languish in any left quadrant. Be seen as a man, be respected as a man and be the leader that women need.
MGTOW’s = Losers.
Lol
We should address this much more.
Can somebody translate this into English for the reading audience please?
it could be deliberate or just typed on the phone. If the former it’s bizarre
It’s probably due to the Kratom ban. The withdrawals can negatively impact cognitive function.
>multi millionaire losers
kek
Good graphic. I’d agree the loser has to pass thorough Player to become genuine Husband Material. At least for a short time, without become a psychopath preferably.
Although this is how women have created the rules
re. graphics, I wonder what program was used – Microsoft Visio, if that still exists?
Visio a safe bet. Or just a table in Word with the lines hidden
I wouldn’t have much trying to do that in Word but maybe – if you’re skilled with it
Excel would be a good bet as well.
I would have no idea how to even begin doing that in Excel
It’s tedious but rather simple. His chart above is mainly lines and arrows (found in the shapes dropdown) and text boxes. Once finished, you can group it all together so it acts as one item instead of it’s many, smaller pieces.
I’m a bit of an Excel nerd from back when I was an analyst.
Anyway, we digress
Well what else are we gonna do on a Friday with Kratom now banned?
you really shouldn’t know how to do that
I find it excellent that you excel at Excel.
It being banned just makes me want it more. Forbidden fruit
I’m concerned about the nature of your comment. Is Visio becoming less popular or otherwise in danger of going away? Or is it more that you just haven’t had a reason to use it in, say, ten years?
yeah, pretty much the latter. I haven’t of it’s existence since about 2010
Ah. I use it with some regularity, and don’t want to have to replace it. Not that I actually like it, but the current alternatives are either insufficient for my task or have an even worse interface than Visio.
There’s more dymamic process modelling software out there now
Think more interface modeling with some lightweight 2D structural modeling blended in.
UML creators fit the bill. Should be some for free online
Good spot. Visio is awesome. Been a fan since 2003.
Great article. Much cold hard truth here. I made a quick tour through all four quadrants and, thankfully, ultimately landed in the top right. Like many men I started in the top left quadrant. Luckily (in hindsight) I got screwed early by a manipulative and emotionally damaged young woman. That led to a brief sojourn in the “Loser” quadrant. Fortunately, I was able to extricate myself from that and end up in the bottom right quadrant for a time ultimately landing in the top right.
Good observation on Taylor Swift – she’s definitely lost the sweet persona she had when she started. My preteen girls were watching one of her latest videos and, not having paid much attention to Swift’s devolution, I assumed it would be relatively harmless pop culture pablum (my approach with the girls being a fine line of not cutting off pop culture completely but trying to raise them with detached awareness). It was a far cry from Swift’s “Love Storey” days. While certainly not as debased as the deranged Miley Cyrus, Swift has definitely moved towards her on the spectrum. I think the money, stardom, fame and pop culture trash tempted and corrupted her.
Taylor is a serial dater who cant stand to be single…red fucking flag. Literally all of her music is very personal from her own self centered point of view, yet she never shows any amount of looking at things from someone else’s perspective. Its all about her spoiled, egotistical self.
There is a reason every high value guy she dates ends up leaving her and choosing to be with equally hot regular girls.
I’ve noticed that too. If you listen to her music closely, it all has the same message: “I want it to be all about me.”
Ive met 2 or 3 guys in the last year who work at hotels/airports who had to carry her bags or cart her shit around. All 3 of these men, who work at completely different places, said she was a “stuck up cunt in every way”. “She had a horrible attitude, zero generosity, didnt tip.” And these are men that in their line of work, tend to carry bags for all types of celebrities and athletes.
Doesn’t surprise me in the least. Her songs revolve around her being the princess in the story. This tell a lot about how she views herself in real life. She thinks she’s the princess and we should all be kissing her feet and grateful for the opportunity.
It makes sense now why so many women resonate with her and the equally as detestable Beyoncé.
Not shocked at all. Girls like her usually have rumors around them. And they are usually true. Those un thought of servers tell the tale. I have never heard a good word about Swift. All while the far less loved Paris Hilton has a long and great reputation as a very nice person. From those same severs.
Beyonce is a race baiting clown and another one of those fake feminists who claims to have made it big on her own, yet the reality is she came from a strong traditional family.
Her pro black panther anti police bs is really sad.
http://secure51.com
Dude she is professional beard . Almost all dude she dated are gays. Jake Gynehall, Harry Styles, Joe Jonas, Taylor Lautner.That Kennedy kid and now Tom hiddleston. They are other closet celebrities whose name I don’t even remember right now
One of them seemed a bit unset about it. I think he might be strait
Good observation. they leave her not for a hotter girl, but one that is more normal. And the one who stuck around ended up dumped for a higher stationed guy
Yeah, i saw a bs interview with her last dude. Dude ditched her and was saying there was just no attraction. In other words, she didnt put out. At some point im guessing he woke up and said “i have bus loads of hot bitches waiting get banged, why stay with this careerist woman who just wants to compete with me”.
I read an interview with her. She stated firmly than she would never settle down until after she was in her thirties. Why would you invest that much time into a girl who has a rep for serial monogamy? The most you would give her is few months of your life. Assuming she is good in bed. Or just for bragging rights
Nah, these female pop stars(and male?) get used as cum dumpsters by Execs doing the most depraved sexual acts stay in Showbiz. Their real lives seep into their media alter-egos. E.g. Linsay Lohan, Paris Hilton, Britney Spears.
I think I would try and find them someone else. Swift is on the slut track now
Good advice. You’re right. I find it tough navigating the pop culture sewer with my girls when I myself tend to disengage from it. The “aware but detached” approach to pop culture can be hard to instil when you’re bombarded with countless new forms of shit daily (and screwed up peers that lap it up). The last Taylor Swift video I saw was “Love Storey” and, though a form of princess-infused garbage in its own right, it struck me as relatively harmless. Her new stuff not so much.
The princess stuff is not so harmless. It breeds entitlement. But then I did not think that way when raising my daughter. Fortunately our chruch had more effect on her than pop culture. I found talking with her about these things helped a lot. She tore up more than one professor at school. Am proud of her
My wife’s cousin and her husband are starting the Disney Princess fantasy with their daughter. Their daughter looks like a mini-me clone of my wife’s cousin, who is unbearably beautiful. The result will be a hot, entitled, snarky bitch, as I think we all know. I’ve tried to bust that thing in its steps when I’m around them, asking when they’re going to trade her off to the local land baron in order to secure closer political ties with him. I get glares….from her husband. Turns out she (my wife’s cousin) isn’t really participating, just kind of going along. A lot of the “little princess” thing, I think, comes from dads in general. Maybe I’m wrong though.
You’re not wrong
You can only hope the little girl just does not have a personality that fits in with being a princess
Both of my nieces went through the disney princess/barbie phase. I just couldn’t count how many Barbie outfits and accessories (castles, houses, airplanes etc.) were scattered around the house. They eventually grew out of it when they started passing out of their little girl phase. I guess it depends on the parents and their guidance. Both nieces are turning into fine, young women.
T.S never as a sweet girl in the first place !!! She is an 8 year old little girl stuck in the body of a pop star. She is a professional dater and uses men like disposable plates. Anybody who dates her is on a fools errand.
Yep spot on. Like most, I started as a White Knight but I think that gets programmed into you very early on. My progression to Top Right necessarily had to go via the PUA. It was the only way I was able to see women for they really were (TRP wasn’t so accessible when I was young). I suspect that all men disrespect women at some stage, not because of the nature of women, but because it is so disappointing to find out they don’t live up to feminism’s standards and lies. Once I realised women weren’t what they claimed to be, but were fine they were they naturally are, I moved into the top right quadrant.
This article is why RoK is good.
Interesting concept. I think ultimately all men should start a family especially the men on this site. There will never be a patriarchy unless red pill men start having large families. That’s why I believe being a player should only be a phase which you grow out of.
This is quite clever, and at least at first glance seems to make a lot of sense
Now that kratoms gone were all doomed to the loser quadrant….
Not gone. Just not legal to obtain it.
It is now in the same class as cocaine. Might as well use coke instead
Nothing like using some coke to deal with the Kratom withdrawal:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/HJUt_x0gwug/maxresdefault.jpg
They need to remake Scarface again, only this time instead of cocaine replace it with Kratom.
Not so lonely anymore….
It’s a shame that i’ve been thrown into the same camp as the ‘loser’, simply because i’m not suited for relationships and don’t find any value in fucking sluts.
Such is the case when simplifying a subject. As long as you’re not a woman-hating loser who’s bitter at the world, I wouldn’t worry too much about falling in that particular quadrant. Sounds like you really don’t fall into any of those 4 quandrants really.
True, i wish all people the best and to strive for the ‘husband material’, this is good for society, it’s just not for me personally. I dislike the entitled MGTOW cultist just as much as anyone here.
I think an essential element behind the meaning and value of the chart is interaction with women on some level. It doesn’t attempt to address any other quality of a man other than how they relate to women and how women view them. If you are not in such a position, it’s simply inapplicable. It doesn’t place you in any category at all.
Yes, I would say this is accurate.
That makes sense. Even though i’ve taken a different path in life, i still try to contribute to the cause, and i don’t blame anyone but myself for my current position.
Except where women place a man changes depending on the data they have. It’s amusing to watch.
Monks are cool but rare. He couldn’t write “the 20 different type” of guys and stay within a word limit
Also, don’t let others throw you into the camp. You can be in the ‘player’ space without being in a relationship or fucking sluts. Lift, focus on your mission, improve yourself, live your life. If you want women, they will be there for you to entertain yourself with. If you don’t want that, keep on doing your thing.
I know a guy exactly like this. He spends all his time doing what he wants to do, and he is one of the happiest, most sane and most laid back guys in the world. He works out, enriches himself, builds his business, and enjoys all the material fruits of his labors. He has tons of friends, male and female, and he has people over to his boat to party all the time. I’ve seen him have to literally peel a skank off of himself at the end of the night.
He has no time in his life for either husband-hunters or one-night-stands. He has made the determination that women of either kind just aren’t worth the hassle or the risk. That’s just his personal choice. I completely respect that dude. He isn’t really a ‘player’ but he is completely in the ‘player’ space. And he for damn sure isn’t a loser.
Sounds like a quality bloke.
Seems like he’s in a spot where many desire to be!
Nope. you’re a ROK reader. it gives us the clue that you’re not in this quadrant.
This site seems to enjoy mocking their readers… yet here we are.
don’t care if I fuck sluts but there are certainly a TON of ugly woman out there. I may not deserve a 10 but some of the cattle I see at bars etc make me want to vomit.
“Husband material (respects women, respected by women)”
Wrong. Simply wrong.
The term ‘husband’ is synonymous with ‘useful idiot’ and ‘slave’. Zero respects given by women to any man who is a ‘husband’.
Care to explain your reasoning?
50% of men in the U.S. can explain. Many of them probably don’t feel too respected by their former wives.
I believe the intent of this article was to represent the idealized husband. An idealized husband is respected by his wife and in turn, returns that respect.
It is actually only 40 something but I understand
I can’t quite square this with the explanation in the article:
Understand that being married doesn’t make everyone automatic husband material.
The reasoning is easy, how else would a guy be viewed by women if he enters into an agreement with one where he incurs more risk (child support, alimony, etc.) than she does (no-fault divorce, infidelity, etc.)?
There’s also the fact that once a guy does that, he loses any sense of true freedom or independence. Want to move to the other side of the world for a better job? She doesn’t want to because her book club is too much fun.
Want to start a new business? Can’t, because she wants a steady income stream for her “goodies”.
Want to spend time with your friends? Nope, if she hates your friends (she usually does), you’ll never see them again.
For most guys, marriage is equivalent to getting locked up for life, with no chance of parole.
You’re describing a ‘White Knight’ or a ‘Loser’ that is married, not a person in the ‘Husband-Material’ space on the chart. The negative things you are describing are the things the article’s author suggests can be avoided by moving out of the Loser and White Knight spaces and into the Husband-Material space.
I agree the ‘Husband-Material’ label is problematic. That phrase is most often used by a post-wall, aged slut looking to slap the dried-out remains of her fuck flaps on some beta male and ‘settle’ for him are her personal slave for the next 4 or 5 years, until she’s ready to divorce rape him and live out her cougar fantasies on her alimony.
Hell, even ‘husband’ has become a cucked term.
Maybe ‘Lord and Master’ would be a better term for this space on the chart.
Perhaps subtitles would help clear up some confusion. I read Husband Material and instantly thought of the positive example. Many here obviously have not.
Husband: Lord of the Castle. Protector and Provider.
+1 for Lord & Master
Add “Consumer of Kratom” to that title
That’s implied.
king or patriarch would fit as well
1 Peter 3:6
“Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord…”
He had a bad marriage. he let her run over him and she left him anyway. He now hangs with guys who all did the same thing.
“Care to explain your reasoning?”
If you have to ask such a question you wouldn’t be able to undetstand the answer if it was explained to you.
Cute cop out response. I ask because my personal experience would suggest otherwise. Been married for over 7 years and have 3 kids and the only way it’s worked that long is a healthy mutual respect so your comment that it’s all wrong is, well, all wrong.
Dude – I’m genuinely happy for you – but you got very very lucky. Open your eyes – don’t take the position “I won the lottery and so can any other guy” – it’s BS.
typical leftist arguing tactic. can’t explain glib nonsensical statement, transfers responsibility to other person.
I’m not saying that at all. I did land a pretty darn good wife. I’m merely asking for your reasoning on why you think it’s completely wrong for a successful marriage to be based on mutual respect.
“. I’m merely asking for your reasoning on why you think it’s completely wrong for a successful marriage to be based on mutual respect”
I agree with that assertion, but
My argument is that marriage today can’t work because today’s females are garbage.
All I can say is: good luck.
‘husband material’ is not synonymous with husband. It indicates an ability to be one, it does not indicate actually choosing to be one.
The delusional mojo is going strong here…
No, he’s right.
you’re comment doesn’t even make sense.
when saying husband material, it’s more about an archetype than the litteral little husband (he could have said “man whose the woman he chose will follow, respect and grow old with him)
there’s two extrem type of husbands btw, i would call them for example
the weak husband (the worst)
the beloved patriarch (the best)
“when saying husband material, it’s more about an archetype than the…”
No it’s not.
that’s why we have to put another label on it.
no word “husband”, no word “marriage”, we get it
Actually, you’re wrong. A tried and true tactic of some player types is to buy a ring and wear it as a “wedding band”. There are a sizable number of women who find the idea of being a Jezebel “hot”.
And it’s up to the individual husband. A husband in control of his family who is the head of the house is always respected. A pastel shirt wearing beer bellied office soft “guy” that the wife bosses around, on the other hand, not so much.
I’ll (safely) bet that you come from a long line of husbands. You may want to rethink your finger pointing.
“Actually, you’re wrong. A tried and true tactic of some player types is to buy a ring and wear it as a “wedding band”. There are a sizable number of women who find the idea of being a Jezebel “hot”.”
But that has nothing to do with what the article discuses with regards to the author’s reference to husband. The motivation of a jezebel to sleep with a married guy has nothing to do with him being some great guy because he is a husband, but instead she is simply trying to upstage the wife of said married man by fucking him – it’s a power trip for her when she can sway a married man away from his wife. She could care less about him as a man.
Similarly in the past I’ve been to restaurants with my girlfriend where the waiteresses would openly flirt with me in front of her. Then just to investigate reality a bit further, I would come back another time – alone – only to see the same waitress act very indifferent to me, and some even play the boyfriend card when I asked any of them out.
Originally retrieved from this ROK article reviewing the book “Manipulated Man” by Esther Vilar http://www.returnofkings.com/42941/the-manipulated-man-a-holy-bible-of-red-pill-wisdom
“women will publicly praise a married man in front of her friends and family while secretly she’ll give herself to a violent asshole who gives her the kind of mental and physical abuse she desires. Today’s women are broken, yet they are spreading their legs and shitting out the bastard kids of losers who do nothing for society”
Final verdict: in the eyes of today’s western female – husband = chump.
Once upon a time, (if you had your shit together) life just pulled you to the right top. Hell at one time all but the losers married. It was just a matter of who got the hot ones and who understood the jokes about sex ending at marriage. We all married. A guy who learned a bit about what woman were really like. We banged a few bad girls before we married. And your wife never stopped giving you sex. A wife knew her man was only loyal by choice.
And sometimes a man makes a bad choice without good reason and gets caught. A good woman will likely not forgive you if you are playing with a girl who is 20 years younger than her, hot and you did her for a year. “Oops, I got drunk” is not going to work. There went the house and a pretty good woman. Replaced by and apartment and a 28 year old slut. A slut who went after my son and banged his 20 year old girlfriend. That (thinking with your dick) is the way you go from husband material, stop off a few weeks at self pitting loser, and back to player.
Life is an education.
Stay away from crazy sluts, even if they are hot.
Guys da woman are such sluts now, if you cant get laid you are not trying very hard.
You know it really was better, when they all wanted a family and daddy might kill you if you messed with his daughter.
Good article. I like the above quote the most. I admonish the exact same thing in nearly the exact same words. Especially the hard to accept reality for most that if you are not being hated by some people you’re definitely doing something wrong. Woe to you when all men speak well of you.
Ah, okay. Like Colin Kaepernick?
Please let me fit in one of these categories ! I always try really hard to fit in anti-conformists categories.
Excellent. “This includes defining the relationship early and common goals.” This quote alone is worth it’s weight in gold. Be a man from the beginning. You’re setting the frame for the rest of the relationship.
One problem: Women often don’t respect their husbands.
I hate to blame the guy. But if you bow down to someone, you will not be respected by them.
As my sister says, gotta give her credit,
“If you lay down and make noises like a rug, people will walk on you.”
I’m not sure husband material is the ideal category for the masculinity matrix, I get why it exists, but I think it’s off-center.
Because you give up so much when you get married, and because society expects you to, with no consideration for how it affects you, I think “husband material” falls into the same category as white knights.
If anything, the final category should be for the guys who deal with their lives first and then deal with women once that’s all set.
That’s what I do with the one I’m seeing right now. I made it clear from the beginning that I got shit to do and once that’s done, then I’ll pencil her in. It’s worked so far.
Yes but you do not count. Your way ends with you, it is the way of cultural extinction. Real extinction if you do not at least leave bastards behind. But even bastards cut into what is yours and yours alone
That brings up an interesting question: are you so desperate to have kids, that you’d risk having them with a woman who will disrespect you, or risk having them when you’re not fully set up in life?
Would you build a house on an unstable foundation? Would you execute a clean and jerk without knowing the proper form and technique?
Why would I pick a bad woman? You use far more care in picking a wife than just getting laid. As to am I desperate. That is a silly question. We are talking about doing what is natural and normal. That is like asking if I am desperate to drink water. No I am not never have been. There is lots of water out there
‘desperate’ is a failed attempt to manipulate the conversation…let’s keep working on that word choice.
I call it how I see it.
We can be selective with the women we choose. However, to circle back to my previous point, that depends on us being able to act in spite of our circumstances as opposed to letting our circumstances define how we act.
Self control, do we lead our lives or do we let life lead us? I have done both and do not lie to myself about what I did when things go bad. Or when they are good
I agree with the former, which is why I have issues with the “husband-material” thing.
The thought of “husband-material” makes me cringe, maybe because I’m cynical by nature.
Do you do that out fear of bad things being done to you? “She will fuck you and take it all”
“…with no consideration as to your feelings…” that’s funny, i did not see a quadrant labeled ‘faggot’ in the matrix?
I don’t think creating a category solely around you is worth any amount of substantive time.
That said, feelings probably isn’t the right word, even though society still uses that metric. Swap it out with “how it affects us” and you’ll get my point.
you set me up, it was destiny
Destiny can be a cruel mistress, that much is true.
Just because someone is in ‘husband material’, doesn’t mean they have to get married. You don’t have to get sucked into the old paradigm of the institution which has substantially changed to remove any benefits/assurances to the male for participating in it.
So I’m a loser then because I disrespect women ?
A French loser.
I lose with panache.
Plenty of practice, eh? Heh.
Can’t win them all. Our boys alone stopped Mali from becoming an Islamic shithole, by the way. While your army has been transgendering itself to death.
Touche.
I like these little sparring sessions of ours, Masonic ninja.
Don’t forget demon-possessed.
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/polandball/images/d/de/France.gif
…. and if you wait a bit, someone will be around to point out you’re also Literally Hitler…
does a white Knight respect women simply by saying so? I think not. white Knights are worse than puas in that regard because a pua wouldn’t tell a girl “I love you” then regret it immensely later after the bang and feel trapped with the girl. a white Knight is tricked into believing the romantic lie and uses it to seduce a woman who, after he sleeps with her, loses all the esteem she once had. white Knights “worship” women, not respect them.
White knights are a lot like women trapped in a man’s body. They are very emotional and manipulative, putting on an act to get what they want.
that’s why woman use them like emotional tampons and treat them like their girlfriends. even worse are girls who have no girlfriends only white Knight orbitors.
Being used as an emotional tampon is one of the few things that really gets under my skin. As soon as I realize someone is trying to use me as such, I walk away. If not, I feel my blood pressure rising and I know things won’t end well.
You are right in so far as them not being the good guys they say they are. They worship woman with the goal of getting laid. They fail and cry that woman want bad boys not them. They can not see that the “bad boys” are honest men and they are not.
The chart rings true but it applies more to the younger men. I’m off the chart now as I don’t give nor seek respect by women. I can live with or without them, can live with or without sex. In my family I call all the shots. My wife likes this way anyway although sometime she rebels. But I do not care if she respects me or not. I do not care if she walks away. If she cheats I would simply kick her out. If she (the state behind her) takes me to the cleaners I’ll start from scratch and still make it. I’ve done it before.
Women are unaccomplished men. They are half-men. After having arrived at this conclusion I no longer measure myself according to their response towards me as it would be to measure a half-built house to a beautiful palace.
I have a daughter and so far she’s good. But very soon she will discover her sexual powers over men, she will find out that they will do things for her solely for being a girl and her intellectual and physical development will stall. That’s why I say they are unaccomplished men.
“My wife likes this way anyway although sometime she rebels. But I do not care if she respects me or not.”
Yes… insisting and leading your life to gain respect from women is also a trap.
Just don’t give a shit. It takes time and age, but if you can make it into your 30s still single, the aura and illusion of pussy starts to fade very quickly. Not your desire for it, just a new and wiser understanding of what pussy actually is.
But that is assuming you have a pair of balls to begin with.
Love the analysis of Taylor Swift.
And yet a certain group of men will continue to view Taylor Swift as a “princess,” despite reality showing otherwise.
Regarding her, there are some conspiracy theories about how she is bat shit crazy and may hide some serious shit under the guise of a cute blonde.
Conspiracy theories?
My friend, you’re on a red-pill site. You should know better.
AWALT.
Haha, not enough likes! But that is how I operate, I consider myself a conspirologist, researching various conspiracy theories for finding potential grains of truth in them, while I am not being paranoid or live in the basement as the definition “profoundly” suggest.
Why is taylor swift even in a manosphere site? That is so gay. Is this ROK or re-runs of the TV show Glee? They are using faggot Milo to debate feminists for them, and they are talking about if Taylor Swift is a nice girl? You can’t get more gay than that. Does ROK want to be the nazi faggot brand of game?
Because it’s noting that she tried to give off the aura of princess but turned out to be the slut we all knew she was going to be regardless of what white knights and others thought. It’s an apt thing to note.
Nobody is “using faggot Milo”, he’s doing what he does on his own, with no input from “us”. He makes good arguments and points (sometimes, when he isn’t just trolling for attention). I don’t believe in invalidating good points due to who said them.
That’s so gay. Next on ROK a debate about Dancing With the Stars and how snarky that judge was. Just put the revolver in your mouth, spin the chamber, get it over with.
fuck off
Ahhh butt hurt nazi faggot doesn’t want to hear anybody bash his mascots. I’ll apologize to taylor swift and milo. Is that better now?
uh wut?
yeah, that’s totally what I meant. I love Milo and Taylor Swift you asshole! Don’t you ever talk shit about them again! (/sarc)
Either fuck or get fucked.
Your going to die someday and hopefully, your memory and impact you left (Hopefully) will be left behind.
They will either have conversations or flash words about you
(Oh yeah I remember him. He was crazy……..Anyway, you ready for season 2 of “Narcos”?)
Women are here to be fucked and we are here to reproduce. Its a empty house and the rest of the bullshit is the furniture inside
You either do or don’t.
Women will get fucked by you or not fucked by you. Its whatever.
Dick needs pussy and pussy needs dick. Pick a side you want to be on.
A fan or a player. Either way death is coming. Do you before the lights go out
Taylor Swift’s lyrics are getting darker and darker
As is her soul.
Kind of like my coffee- cold, bitter and dark.
Not to mention her ‘sshole…
LOL
A true philosopher. Aristotel rank.
Sadly, over the last couple years I’ve realized I’m in the loser camp. Zero respect from women. The reason? Excess body fat and low desire to chase money/toys. In other words, I’m not viewed as either AF or BB. I’m tall/smart/witty and have 3 degrees…but it doesn’t mean anything. Women are all about what you can show them now. Looking back at the years, I’m really a failed sigma. I never made women my priority, but didn’t succeed in my pursuits. So to all the guys saying, just focus on your dreams and the women will show up…not so much.
But how many women do you game? I’m guessing from your post, zero!
And your body fat excuse is just that. Likelyhood is you’re using it as an excuse against not facing up to potential failure
Hiding from the world is the one thing that guarantees to put you in the bottom left
Dude, do you even lift? Just adding a small exercise regiment to your day can do wonders. Walking 30mins, doing light weights at home, anything can help. Stop making excuses and do something about it.
“…and low desire to chase money/toys.”
Life is short– find a desire to chase something. Anything. What is on your bucket list? What have you always wanted to try? Music, motorcycles, dancing, SCUBA, quilting, travel- what? Some day you’ll be looking in a mirror wondering where your life went and it will be too late to do anything about it.
Show me someone who has never failed at anything, and I’ll show you someone who has never tried everything they wanted to do. I’ve won, I’ve lost, I’ve lived and I’m not done yet. I will fail again, I will win again. IWNFD.
Self reflection is always important for a man. But its more useful to identify the female’s life trajectory and calibrate your interactions with her accordingly. In american culture which phase of her life, disney princess, girl gone wild, husband search for beta provider, cougar, cat lady. Women “respect” different men for different reasons. This article feels like it was written by a religious conservative or a woman.
it could be a topic for a new ROK article
The vast majority of you white guys fall into a sad, sad venn diagram of “Loser” and “Husband Material.” Loser Husbands. You have the means to take care of yourself and someone else, but your women stomp your shit out with ruthless efficiency. If there was a Z-axis in this chart, it would have to be labeled ‘self-respect,’ with most of you squarely on the negative side.
Cool story, Bro
I wondering if he’s been perma-banned from Heartiste. He used to spend his time there throwing out “Muh dick” arguments 24/7.
He sounds cool as fuck. I wonder if he could email me an autograph
wonder no more, I’ve never commented on a Heartiste post.
I am cool. And no, I won’t.
Sure Thwack, sure.
How cool? Fonz level cool?
Fonz? That reference helps confirm my suspicion that this site is a bunch of 50-something, sandals-and-socks-wearing, dad bod/dad jean, polo shirt and sun visor sporting, low-T count sallow-skinned sons of bitches.
And very cool.
Projection
Reflection.
Ejection
are we casting spells at each other? you might have the upper hand on me here, with your studies in wizardry or whatever else lonely white guys do in their free time.
They screw your momma
Whoa, easy on the language, you’re creeping into PG-13 territory.
You’re terrible at this.
Agreed white culture is inherently beta male culture or feminism could not be so prevalent. Males believing if they try harder as male feminists they can get more access to sex.
Tru dat. I’m a proud white man, but I agree with this statement.
White Power!
Yeah! Inventing cuckoldry!
I believe I indicated white pride.
“This matrix was conceived and refined through social fire after 18 months of debate with my local Return Of Kings brothers”
excellent article, but i didn’t see any debate about this matrix’s creation in the comments in ROK. i would have been glad to participate in such works
Thanks for the comments.
Despite the international meetup controversy, we managed to form a group in my city. These are the ‘bros’ I’m referring to.
ah ok
don’t hesitate to share with us, if you need external advices or contributions for future works.
No problem. I’ll have to create a forum account first. I’m not too keen in discussing it in disqus.
I had a something come up recently and I thought this would be a good place to ask for some insight.
At my gym there is a really cute petite blonde that has been a member for a few years. She eventually went and got her certification to become a personal trainer and the gym owner hired her on. She’s gotten into great shape, added close to 12lbs of muscle, and has a pretty active client base. She was always rather flirty with people (including myself) and just seem genuinely nice for the most part.
However I found out she filed for divorce from her husband of 4 years (A former marine and now computer programmer), and is moving to Houston to work at a really upscale facility. Like where upper class clients work out.
While she was telling me all of this my spider senses were going off big time. Like something wasn’t quite right about her story. The divorce was her decision and she basically blamed her husband for not being supportive of her new business, being boring, and just not all that interesting. There are no signs of emotional or physically abuse as she always seems rather happy and personable. I had asked her if she had dated a lot before she got married to him, but she said no. Dating was never her strength.
I was considering asking her out for drinks myself before she moved, but something in my gut got me a red flag. How do you all feel about this?
Sounds reasonable for potential hook up but not for LTR. Flags all over that one
blamed her husband for not being supportive of her new business, being boring, and just not all that interesting.
Translation: He was a loyal and steady provider who placed higher value on responsibility than on YOLO!(tm), and made her unhaaaaaaaaappppy because he didn’t support her “career” of hanging around high-T musclebound men all day.
…. he drew a line, I crossed it. He said good riddance.
That’s the feeling I was getting too. I would love to ask him about it, but seeing that he never worked out there with her, I’ve never had a chance to get to know him. Also seeing how the divorce was her decision I bet the poor dude never saw it coming.
I was friends with her on facebook for a bit and saw that they had a pretty big and expensive wedding, took numerous trips throughout the year (The Caribbean, Belize, etc), had a big house, multiple cars, etc. Things you would think would make any woman happy. But the nonchalant attitude she had about the whole thing (didn’t even mention if they tried marriage counseling or therapy to fix the marriage) really rubbed me the wrong way. Now she’s gone back and deleted every single image of them together. So anyone checking her facebook page now wouldn’t even know she had been married! One of my friends that works there even mentioned how she was just running away from her problems and not facing them. That and what she told me really showed me a lot about her personality.
She got in shape and realized she can “cash up” by ditching the loser ex-marine/programmer for a guy in finance/banking by status seeking/signalling in the elite circles. Or you could just call her a whore, whichever is easier. Pass no matter HOW hot she thinks (or you feel) she is.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t another guy already involved. Someone that made up her mind that she could be doing better. Actually lost all the respect I had for her. Shame too as she was a big cheerleader for me when I first started lifting.
Go with your gut…..And ask yourself,has she “éarned” your respect’ or just got your attention?
My advice to those in the pua/player quadrant: there is more to life. And there is only one way left – up.
Vaya Con Dios as they say. Find God.
Funny thing is, whether you care or not, he has already found you.
Here’s the funny thing about that. Finding religion won’t help you find better quality women. There’s no difference between women inside/outside the church these days. But there are other reasons to be religious.
you seem to have missed the point. 1) I don’t advocate religion or the establishment of a structured man made religion. I believe in the relationship between God and Man. Seeking out God is not an exercise in going to a church and praying 5 hours a day and yelling at people
. Living your life for a greater purpose is for God. All the self improvement advice given on this site can be for the glory of God.
2) If the purpose of establishing a spiritual connection to God is only for finding “religious girls” than your motive was flawed to begin with
Why are you on PUA site talking about religion? Are you omega male in monk mode?
Some of the topics are not PUA related and men have other interests besides fucking.
You must be new here. This is NOT a Pua site. This is a red pill manosohere site with certain sections dedicated to game. Are you a omega male in fake alpha mode?
I only played white knight one time in my life. I was driving down a busy street in Dallas, Texas, and I saw a hot redhead out of gas on the side of the road. I whipped my truck over and took her to a gas station. I bought a gas can, and a gallon of gas, and took her back to her car and put the gas into her tank and prepared to drive away. She said she owed me, and she wouldn’t feel right unless she paid me back in kind. Yes – I banged her that night. As luck would have it (or fate, better put), when we were driving back to my building after she had paid for my drinks, food, etc., she tensed up. I asked her what was wrong and she said nothing, don’t worry about it. The next morning, she was acting weird again. So I pressed her about it. She said her boyfriend lived in the very same building where I lived, downstairs, and we had walked past his room the night before, while going up to my room on the third floor. I never saw her again, solely because of that, but it was a really weird coincidence, to be sure. Even when you get laid, playing the white knight is a really bad percentage play…
That was bullshit story she gave you about boyfriend living in the same building because she didn’t like the sex. You believed it because that’s how white knights roll.
Ouch, man. Actually, the guy in question was a world-class pool player. I heard balls clicking in his room, every time I walked past his door. She took me to one of the billiard parlors he owned, for drinks and food. She called me for about three months afterwards. But yeah, you’re probably right.
Judging by his story, she got awkward first as they were entering his building and BEFORE they banged. Ease up on the bro antics and improve your reading comprehension.
I used to stop and help people from time to time. Although I’ve stopped helping most women. Anyway back when I still stopped for women there was a fairly busty brunette in business attire (on a saturday) in the median trying to flag someone down. I swung around, parked on a side street, walked over and she was out of gas. I took her to a gas station and On the way there she wouldn’t even have a normal conversation. Ok fine. Once at the station I parked and let her get her own gas can and gas. I took her back to her car. She hugged me. I later found a five dollar bill in the center console I don’t think I put there and normally wouldn’t have folding money in the car. That’s the one most like yours, but had the same general vibe I’ve gotten.
Most women I stopped to help gave me a very distinct vibe of disrespect. Which is why I stopped doing it unless they were like 70 plus years old. I try to be a decent person and that vibe of disrespect from younger women really annoyed me. I’ll still stop and help a man with a car that’s clearly broken when I am out biking or walking. Men will either appreciate the help or say they’ve got it handled.
Need more of these articles. Society has become what it is because of a lack of top-right men, bringing them back will destroy feminism.
Husband material should be renamed Alpha Provider.
Loser should incorporate beta cucks who happen to be married.
why not ? but saying alpha will raise the old debate “not all people are alpha but can fall in this quadrant”.
Alpha – born, or evolved to become
ok, i approve
Beta cucks are white knights
“All girls will ‘shit test’ you to gauge your boundaries. Be firm and resolute.”
This is related with fear. Many men, fear, that if they say no to a women, antagonize her, talk crap to her, that they will be denied and treated as shit. This is so untrue. In fact, its the opposite: if a men stands up to a women, she will like him better.
Just got out past Saturday with this hot girl. We went to a bar that had a pool dance thing. At least 7 times she pointed to the pole in order to make me go there, always saying that she wanted to me to “go crazy”. I said no, every single time.
Then the drunk guys that were making those clown lame figures on the pole, got their ears smashed by the bouncer. I turn to her and said: “you have to gain some common sense”. The night got in overdrive past that. Conclusion? Frame, is pivotal to gain respect.
” if a men stands up to a women, she will like him better.”
true, and i add only if he is a high value male with cues.
the others would be ditched and scorned
“Frame, is pivotal to gain respect.”
exactly
Indeed. But there was something funny when we departed. She adopted the “Fig Leaf” position. She was either shy, or knew i could try to fuck her right there and then. Anyway, it proved my value and the fact that i made a impression on her. The worst thing a men can do to a women is…well, nothing at all.
I’ve been saying ‘no’ to women for a very long time, since I was in my late teens. IME the common response is to go find a guy who will say ‘yes’.
That makes sense, but only if they see you as a friend and want someone who can validate every single stupid thing she does. A “yes” man is a week men in the female “reasoning”.
Absolutely right. It’s all about frame and like baser animals, women can sense when you lack such or about to break it. Also, never, ever, ever apologise for anything provided you are maintaining frame and being a self-respecting man who treats others with the requisite level of respect/courtesy in the spirit of mutual reciprocity.
“being a self-respecting man who treats others with the requisite level of respect/courtesy in the spirit of mutual reciprocity.”
This is also very important. Frame and standing strong is not about insulting other people namely women. Its all about being a source of security and power. God only knows, how women love power.
Precisely. You have to project that power so people respect you and are drawn to you.
I think all… and I do mean ALL… advice to men on ROK… if I had to sum it up and give the single most POTENT and concentrated red pill of Game and masculinity and the nature of the female to my 16 year old self many moons ago… would be this.
No.
Learn to use this word when you interact with women, and use it a lot.
It does not matter how many times you say yes… as long as you CAN say no at any time and MEAN it… when you utter it… it’s like Zeus lighting to a woman.
I confirmed it this week talking to a woman friend of mine a few years older than me (and tried for her younger sister but we simply would not be compatible in the end). She asked of I was still single (it has been at least 2 or more years since we last talked) and of course I said yes.
Then I told her why I believe I am single. I asked this married woman of 4 children (who almost divorced her husband she revealed to me). I said it was because I am a man who has no problem uttering the single most hated two letter word a woman can ever hear come out of a man’s mouth.
I gave her one chance to guess what it is.
She said “No” with only a second or two’s hesitation.
A woman’s RESPECT for you equals your ability to say NO and mean it, walk away and never look back kind of mean it.
We live in a “yes” culture in relation to women. (the media, Hollywood, the economy…) Its truly the pussy on a pedestal thing, elevated to nauseating levels of low self worth for many men. If i said yes, like all the other monkeys in the bar, i would have lost my dignity and self worth…And for what??? To make her laugh and “please” her for a few seconds???
We have to differentiate ourselves from the rest of the losers, from the hundreds of Facebook likes, from the orbiters that are there to say yes to their every will. Like is said…her reaction was only better after that situation.
Until I learnt basic fundamentals of game at 18 I was a white knight. After years of self development and improved interactions with women I’ve punched through into the husband material…. My girlfriend’s been trying to lock me down since day one, but only after 3 years am I starting to entertain the thought. That and I’m being actively chased by single mum’s and the occasional cute early 20’s lass at work.
There is a dark side to me, that will slide back into white knight betadom if I don’t consistently work at improving myself and maintaining frame in my relationship. It helps having been through a crazy ex, and the shit tests she threw at me constantly. I’ve learnt from that and now I don’t even give them the time of day. That and I make sure her most attractive best friend adores me.
Be prepared to walk away at any point in the relationship and know that you will get over it, and you will be a success. This attitude is key!!!
who has seen this fiasco? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGcc3LyANtA
The fiasco is MTV. It is the Goddess channel now, as is so much of western mainstream culture. We are now living in a post feminist (i.e. equality mantra) culture. It is now the time of the goddess… WORSHIP ME!!!!
After my few posts, I can certainly say that I am wholly on the left side. I’m working to be on the right as husband material because in this society, we need children who are raised properly, especially to counteract the left training that school has forced us (we millennials, I’m 19) into. I’m at an intersection between Loser and White Knight, but you know what they say, first step is: Identifying there’s a problem. Now, I’m gonna go and solve it.
Interesting idea here, the chart and the parameters set work well for me.
I can see myself as a centrist leaning loser based on the respect/disrespect values and that position is actually consistent with the descriptions which would fit me as well.
Someone who is not respected by women, but they can tell I won’t put them on a pedestal so they don’t disrespect me either. And I certainly don’t have respect towards them in general, but I don’t have much disrespect either.
I’d fall into player territory if I were more thirsty and put effort into getting women, maybe even leap to husband material if my attitude wasn’t so negative in general.
Interesting stuff. It’s scary how predictable we are… lol
This article is very good because it provides a plan and a long term strategy and breaks it down in the bigger picture .
Curious to see if someone will read this and what kind of discussion I can start. I have to admit I have not read the article, but only because these categories to me seem completely irrelevant. How is that? Well, from my perspective, they are all categories WOMEN place men into. These are all roles WOMEN seek to stereotype men so they can slot them in to “the plan”… HER plan, not yours.
I am curious to know if their are any ROK readers striving to put themselves into the only category women can’t define, and are most afraid of if they were to actually meet one.
A Man… capital M.
I’m interested in people’s views as well.
read it
Just gave it a quick read. It is actually a very good piece.
Perhaps it is just my age (early 40s), but when I look back on my life and what I have learned about becoming a Man, capital M, is this.
The second… the very second… you stop caring a single atomic shit about what category a woman puts you into, you become a Man, capital M.
YOU… define who you are, not the woman. Men who are trying to figure out if they are in the disrespect or respect half of the above quadrant are still trying to MOLD themselves to what a WOMAN wants.
There are a lot of guys out there who live at home with mommy playing playstation who get laid. It all comes down to how YOU view yourself.
As Bruce Lee said… the mind is everything. Your thoughts become who you are.
If YOU have respect for yourself, and demand/command it from others, then it will not matter which quadrant some chick decides to place you in because YOU DON’T CARE what she thinks of you.
From the chart above… for where I am right now… I think women see me as a potential husband who has (sadly) a loser career/financial position who could be a player (and seems to act like one) but has no history of fucking random girls and instead only seems to go for the ones he likes who is respectful toward women, but knows one can never truly respect them as equal to a man.
If you become a Man, capital M, many women won’t know where to place you in THEIR matrix (the above article) and many will, as one cute as a button young Serbian woman told me…
“You don’t play the game Maximus… you make your own rules and that scares a girl.”
Meridius whats the deal with your “capital M” – this makes no sense.
A man is the result of age + life experience + strength.
Sometimes a boy becomes a man at age 15. More often (in the west frequently) we have man-children who are well past 20 but still boys.
Boys who are older than 18 are losers, white knights, manginas, lower to mid betas and quite often players.
A grown man, both in body and mind, will most often be husband material or alpha. In the old days no father would have given his girl to a male who was not a man. No way.
A sure sign of beeing a grown man is his view on women, sex, marriage and most importantly children.
The boy is afraid his girl might get pregnant, because he does not have the resources or strength of mind to build a familiy on his own. He is weak and relies on others (often his parents or the socialist goverment) in many key areas of his life.
The grown man does embrace children and will pick a fertile woman who is proud to have his offspring. He has reached many of his goals in life and is now ready to plan for his future. This is known as the alpha provider but realy is just an ordinary grown man. A tiny minority in these days sadly.
This article is good because it makes you look at the bigger picture plus it provides a strategy to get better. Because it is very important to know how women or society perceives you . In turn it’s important to see how men perceive women because let’s be real both sexes objectify the other that’s part of life.
30%f your audience is MGTOW “losers” but you think its appropriate to mock them?
Where do you get 30% stat? I try to be agnostic on the issue, I figure every man is going to age out eventually. But MGTOW do seem to be the cry babies of the manosphere.
MGTOW:
95% omega males
4.9% soon-to-be better men in the making. Difference? They may be omega now but they are improving and most will reach beta status sooner or later. Beta is not as bad as PUA make it look. Betas are the majority of men and they do get laid.
0.1% true monks who have found tranquility and indeed are after greater enlightenment. Difference to the 95% omegas who pretend to be monks? The 0.1% know they can stop beeing a monk any time they want and will be greater beta or even alpha if they do.
You think 70% of the people who read these game articles in their 20”s and 30’s who presumably are not married are the top tier of men? Are you being serious?
Hmmm… Amusing grid. I fit nowhere on it. Where a woman puts me (if we limit it to this grid) changes over time depending on our interactions and what she tries to get out of me or what she learns about me. I generally don’t end up in the ‘player’ quadrant because I still respect women as sentient beings, but my refusal to be a white knight or yield to them because they are women gets some unusual reactions.
Fuck that. Just be. Be yourself and forget everything you’re told about “doing this” or “doing that.” I don’t care about women. Therefore, I get women. Easy.
I was husband, now am player. Will not EVUH return to husband.
In my opinion, all man should want to become Alfa Providers.
I know some guys who spent most of their lifes being PUAs, the most notorious one being my neighbor, who has more than 100 years old.
He advised me: “it is better to marry a good woman early, to build your house
through your sweat, to have kids before the age of 30, and see they grow and to see your grandchildren, than spend your life jumping from bed to bed, from woman to woman. In the end, this path only leads to loneliness, which you will try to hide, mainly of yourself, because you will be too arrogant to admit your own hollowness. My biggest regret was not having married earlier, fortunately I lived very long, enough to see my grandchildren.”
Rihanna is the perfect example of good girl gone bad. And i think all pop stars need to go through this stage at some moment! (Ariana grande, Demi Lovato, Rihanna, Beyoncé). Because the show business controls women worldwide through their singers!
Drake falls in the White Knight category with all his mr nice guy lyrics. That’s the reason he is rich because of his “emotional songs”.
Well I was top left and tried to become bottom right but ended up bottom left, however I am close to (0,0) so there may be hope.
A player is all i want to become since girls aren’t worth shit, except to be fucked by an Alpha cock!
Is it just me or does that Elliott Roger guy scream “GAY!”?
I have been -100% red pill now for 3 years and like a recovering alcoholic -dam proud of it.
I love this article. Perfectly describes my own life story and the life story of a lot of guys I know or have known of.
Like a lot of you, I was a white-knight faggot throughout my teens and into my mid 20’s. I’d been brainwashed by the recurring plot of oh-so-many movies: Nice guy meets girl, nice guy is girls’ “friend”, girl realises she actually likes nice guy “friend” better than cocky prick she’s in LTR with/ banging, nice guy wins girl at last.
It took a lot of drunken nights of despair, a brief period seeing a shrink to deal with the anxiety, some serious introspection and the decision one NYE, at the age of 25 that “whatever it takes, I’m done with this. I’ll do whatever it takes to get where I want to be instead of going on being frustrated like this”- but fuck it’s been worth it.
I started to “get it” around the age of 28, I think. In the few years since then I’ve cared more and more about my expectations and self-respect and less with anybody who disrespects me- or having people dislike me for not being a faggot and deferring to them. Right now there is a girl I’ve been chatting to on the regular who makes me feel like no other since my very first crush back in Highschool. She initiates conversation with me more than I do with her, and since I met her I’ve never hesitated in being completely up-front with my thoughts or intentions regarding her. 5 or 6 years ago, I couldn’t handle the thought of it going balls-up from here somehow. But now? I know that even if that does happen, I’ll be on to the next one soon enough. I have something I didn’t possess until quite recently and that’s the confidence and belief in abundance. She is not a special snowflake and there are PLENTY of other girls out there if she disappears into the sunset. I’m not worrying “What’s going to happen to me from here?” as opposed to weighing up “What do I want to happen in this relationship from here?”
I loved this article because as I read it, I constantly thought of my own journey thus far and it reassured me that while I’m definitely haven’t “arrived” in full, like a mountain climber I sat down a moment to look back at how far I’ve climbed and appreciate the view I never saw in the bad old days. Thanks again.
You do not chat; you set up action dates or she will flake on you. count on it. You will only get it as red pill when you realize that a woman does not have the emotional capacity for anything but Hypergamy. They will all make you “feel like no other”; because they are woman and have the sextual goods you want. Its a pill that sooner or later you will need to swallow.
Indeed. Seeing her this coming weekend when I come back from interstate, if all goes to plan. “Stringing them out” is doomed to fail otherwise, I agree. And neither have I pulled up stumps everywhere else in the meantime for the sake of this girl. I still have my radar switched on, keeping tuned in for other girls to start something with.
sounds like you get it.. If she flakes on you than you know that your talking too much and likely poisoned the well.. 2 strikes and that’s it for her.
ROK: pussy worshipping white knights.
according to this, i am a loser. in trying to be the “player” i have ended up being the loser. I am not on the couch though. So I will look at myself in an attempt to change my lifestyle. Good read. Spot on with it all.
Another article working off gender generalizations?
Respect is earned….Especially to self respect………And that comes from the Deeds and Character of yourself and those observed in others…………..,irrespective of gender.
Your idea of respect may not be the same as woman’s – then what do you do?
Even from one women to another,Respect and expectations vary.
Each individual you encounter you have to,for lack of a better word, “Filter”….The truth from the hype,the BS.
Women shit test to see your true character,would you not think men need to ‘test’ as well?
Could not agree more.
It took me decades (I’m now approaching my mid-40’s) to realize that there is no such thing as a “safe space” or “safe area” in your life where you can simultaneously be liked by everyone while actively pursuing and achieving the goals you want to. Someone, somewhere is going to dislike you or just outright hate you for any number of reasons so you might as well be hated for being the a rea person who is actively pursuing your dreams and goals on your own terms.
RIP Supreme Gentleman. But he did make some good points.
Great article. As a woman, I am very grateful that finally someone put an organized matrix of how we think. Spot on. Good work.
No. Not really – this article isn’t about Woman. Error #1 – it always is with woman when its not; thats feminist. Second, this article is suspect – at best in categorizing behavior. A male can’t just “jump’ into a category one day after reading an article without understanding the basics of what women respond to. That is why a most men go though various categories. Feminist clapping is of no value.
Lores starts blamming others because they are jhudged way too wrongly by people. Simple as that. thare are no reason as i can see that they are these too much despised and hated. It is kind clear that hate creates more hate… so much rejection that sometimes may be absuvem is the perfect source for that hate of them. Thir situationis far more complex to overcome than what is advised here. the fact is, sociaties are not prepared to treat that men live seriously. for me it is veryu clear that they cannot take other seriously because they are not take serious, they are not respected so they cannot really respect anyone, including women.
Excellent primer – ought to be taught to every young man as required reading, but of course it will not be. May already be considered hate speech by the free speech police.
Best article I’ve read yet on RoK.
Making oneself into the Husband Material zone rewards a man to no end and helps strengthen our civilization.
Now, go find a good woman, and make sons that will be strong men and daughters that will be good mothers.
Defining yourself purely in terms of how much respect you have for women (assuming we’re even allowed to desimplify this to a non-binary continuum) and how much (if) they respect you (without considering alternate definitions of respect and diversity of opinion among women, incidentally): hard to imagine a more completely pussy-whipped framework for self-actualization. Do you even believe in the concept of male self-worth in the absence of its effect on or judgement by women? Imho, this is cute on the surface but a huge, steaming load of offensive misandric clap-trap underneath.
(edited for typo)
I mean, seriously? “None have disagreed with its underlying premise…. Female judgement… should impel you towards self-improvement.” F*c k off.
edited to add: How about including respect for SELF (or even for other men, or for humanity in general, or for how other men see you)? Nah, none of that’s important. Good god.
Sorry for the harsh tone, I just find it disrespectful to be told to define my value purely in terms of women. It’s stuff like this that gives me the impression ROK aims to shift from being a religion of worshipping sex (bang) to a religion of worshipping marriage / monogamous relationships. Neither one has anything to do with inherent value as a human being. If you like sex, nothing wrong with tips on how to get it. If you want monogamous committment, fine too. But don’t be trying to tell people you need X from women in order to be a better person. That’s poison.
Preferring multiple and/or temporary sex partners over marriage or a divorce & remarriage cycle doesn’t mean you disrespect women nor that the partners you choose are neccessarily low quality.
I liked this piece, though I think “husband material” needs to be replaced as feminist-type women want “losers” as husbands-slaves, and they are certainly not respected by women.
“Punish bad bitch behavior
accordingly.”
I am a firm believer of corporal punishments that should be introduced very early in the relationship, in any relationship.
There is a fifth segment in that matrix, one that spans Player & Husband Material – the successful, player husband, or The King. One who manages their life, keeping positive control over all elements, who’s mastered management of their emotions to allow the right ones to flourish when appropriate, and calculate what persona will be most fruitful in each situation. Nitsche’s Übermensch is a worthy King.
An accomplished executive, with a busy international schedule, I’ve built this into a very well balanced set of spheres. After over 20 years of marriage, my dutiful, loving wife has learned to never question my activity when travelling, and the neat, graying beard & Saville Row suits draw the attention of women most everywhere. They aren’t attracted by the money, but by the power that the King exudes, the clear evidence that the world has acknowledged your prowess and rewarded your efforts with a life that they ache to be a part of, even if only periodically. The women that are privileged to feel him banging them senseless run the gamut – college girls after their professors, divorcees with no patience for losers, aspiring preppies, models who know how good they look rubbing their leg against you in the Dubai Buddah Bar, total whores looking for their next notch. You appear, at first, unattainable, making you a prize for those. Never, NEVER, go for an attached woman; she or her idiot risk fucking with your balance. Your notch cannot, ever, displace your wife. Be very, very clear about that from the start, as the wife has taken years of shaping to get her where you want.
At home, that wife that adores him – a mother and homemaker so grateful that such a man would still cherish her. The King is sincere in his respect for that, ensuring that she truly values her position and has learned from him how irresponsible those “professional” women are. She has been shaped by her King to be faithful, and to know that her purpose in life is to find domestic ways to entertain herself while keeping herself, and the home, prepared to service the needs & wants of her King. She derives no greater thrill than when he compliments her choice of draperies, or the creativity she’s expressing in the kitchen. She is a quality woman, and is made complete by having a man who values that.
According to the Vox Day system:
White knight = Gamma
Loser = Omega
Player = Alpha/Sigma
Husband = Beta
I think there is a 4th arrow coming off of the husband material to other chart that should lead to MGTOW. It runs parallel to loser, but it is not the same. I suppose it is somewhere between loser and player.
I have always been husband material.
But I am looking to be more of a player before settling. I find it extremely hard. Any advice? Something that does not involve rotting your soul.
I can’t really help you with the PUA lifestyle, it never really appealed to me. Perhaps some ROK members that have lived the lifestyle could help.
A word of caution however, the age of your prospective wives will increase in time. That is, the longer you play the field, the harder it will be for you to obtain a virtuous young wife. In highschool, I hardly knew any girls that were slatterns. When they hit 18, the inverse was true. It gets increasingly harder past this point to find a decent wife. Yes, you will have lots of choice, but not good ones. It depends on how much baggage you are willing to put up with (or control). Just as decent guys get married young, decent girls do as well.
While I don’t really advocate the PUA lifestyle, I believe in autonomy, so if you go ahead with it try not to do it for long.
This matrix is only relative to male relationships with females.