This is it. You’ve done it. You’ve plucked up the courage. Perhaps you’ve even followed the ‘3 second’ rule and gone up to her as soon as you spotted her. Whatever. You’ve made a direct approach. You’ve said ‘Hi, I think you’re kinda cute, I’m Troy.’ You’ve got over the very first hurdle that 95% of other guys wouldn’t even contemplate attempting. So here you are, standing in front of her. Now what?
If you break down approach anxiety, if you really analyse its constituent parts then it becomes apparent that it’s not actually the approach itself that guys are scared of. Of, to be more accurate, if we are scared of the approach it is because of our uncertainty around what comes immediately afterwards. After all, we know what we’re going to say when we open our mouths. It’s not too difficult to decide on a line, memorise it and then go and deliver it.
(Okay, I get that some guys are hyper-shy and find even that difficult, but you know what I mean. In principle we can all decide to say a particular thing then open our mouths and say it).
What guys are most intimidated about when they approach is what happens directly afterwards. We’ve delivered our perfect line in all it’s glory. If things stopped here, if all you had to do was walk up and say ‘Hey, you’re cute’ for her to say ‘Cool, let’s go have sex’ then no man would have any problem doing it and all game writing would be unnecessary. But it’s not like that. The trouble is, you went and spoke to a sentient human being. A stranger you know nothing about. And the ways in which she could conceivably react to you are in theory infinite.
That’s what makes approaching scary and exhilarating. We have no real idea what’s going to happen before we do it. The girl could be a complete loon. She could start shouting the place down, call the cops, throw a pint of water over your head, anything. On a more prosaic level, (and more realistically) she might rebuff your advance, say something cruel about you, laugh, or simply ignore you.
These things are unpalatable for most men because of our egos. We don’t like the idea of being seen to be shunned by a woman in public. However, if you are to become proficient at meeting and attracting women then you need to become resilient.
The most likely thing to happen when you cold-approach a girl you don’t know, in particular if you do a direct approach where you lay your cards on the table and tell her you like her straight-off, is that she will be somewhat skeptical, perhaps even cold, for the first couple of minutes of the conversation. It is here that you need a strategy. The worst thing you can do is simply walk off. Too many men give up too early and lose out on opportunities that could have paid off. No: what you need to do in a situation such as this is to plow.
‘Plowing’ is an old-school term dating back to Mystery method which describes the process of pushing through what might be an initially awkward interaction. If you do it proficiently then what often happens is that the girl will eventually loosen up and become friendly, chatty and generally open to you.
On Friday I approached a cute girl in a restaurant. She was sitting at a table alone, but right next to her were her two friends. Effectively it was three-set then. To add a little additional social pressure I asked my friend to film the encounter on my iPhone for me.
I decided to go direct. Going indirect in a restaurant in my view stretches believability a little too much (‘Hey, I couldn’t help notice you have the linguine. What sauce have they given you with that?’). I opted for a high-cheese strategy, basically satirising chodey romantic comedy films.
‘Hi guys,’ I said, addressing all three girls. ‘I’m sorry to intrude like this while you’re eating but I had to come over because I’ve just fallen madly in love with your friend.’
This was divisive. The girl I liked blushed and laughed and put a hand to her mouth. The two friends looked distinctly unimpressed and smiled weakly.
‘But I’m in a restaurant. I’m eating,’ said the girl.
Now, having had time to compose herself and no doubt to observe the demeanor of her friends, she was looking at me challengingly, as though I had committed some social faux pas. Which technically of course I had.
It’s Plow Or Die
In a moment such as this it really is plow or die. I’d already made an unusually flamboyant social gesture. Now the girl was testing me in front of her friends (and the other diners) to see what I was made of.
Put on the spot it might have been tempting to have backed down. ‘I’m sorry. Well, have a lovely dinner. It was nice to meet you.’ But had I done that I would have achieved precisely nothing.
Instead, I used another old-school game technique. I agreed and amplified.
‘Yes. It was incredibly rude of me. I don’t know what’s come over me. I’m not normally like this. You know us British men [the girls were Russian]. We tend to be very formal and afraid of our emotions. But when I saw you sitting there something in the universe paused, just for a moment. It was as though the planets stopped moving. As though all of the birds in the trees stopped singing, just for a second. As though all traffic stopped, all conversations, all the fish in the sea. And I knew at this moment that it was real love, love that could not be contained by the normal petty, empty social conventions that exist to hold us back, to tether us, to prevent us from expressing our true feelings . . . ‘
Etc. etc. etc.
I continued with this bullshit for a minute or so, until the girl started laughing and even her friends were cracking smiles. Of course, it’s all in the delivery, and with mocking eyes I made it clear that it was all ironic. It worked.
‘I’m a lucky girl,’ my target said. The ice had been broken. I pulled up the chair in front of her and we began talking normally. Now there was no resistance from her or the friends, who chatted amongst themselves. After ten minutes or so I left with her phone number.
How To Plow
The above is an example of a very particular form of game that I sometimes use—fake romanticism. If you haven’t done it yourself it’s worth a try—it’s a lot of fun. But the key thing I want you to take away about plowing is that it doesn’t really matter too much what you say, you just need to keep talking.
The most important thing about the speech I made in the restaurant wasn’t its content, but the fact that I made it at all. Let’s think about the subcommunications for a second. For one, I wasn’t intimidated by either the girls’ slightly frosty reception of me, or of the wider social situation. Two, I was able to talk fluently and at some length (even though what I was saying was bullshit). Three, I was humourous. Four, I had balls. Five [bonus point on content] I was socially savvy enough to parody stereotypical romantic conventions. In other words, just by continuing to talk I was able to raise my value in the eyes of this girl.
I am not recommending that you too should use ‘fake romanticism’ if it doesn’t suit you. I am recommending that you plow when you approach a girl that you like and she is standoffish. If you can just keep talking for a minute or so without her having to say anything then you will be surprised how likely she is to warm to you.
Want to find out more about how to get great at game? Check out Troy’s book The 7 Laws of Seduction and follow him on Twitter and at realtroyfrancis.com
Read More: The One Girl You Absolutely Must Approach Every Day
215 thoughts on “How To Get Through The First Two Critical Minutes Of Talking To A Hot Girl”
I find it easier talking to hot girls as they are usually either more receptive to what I say, more submissive or just plain stupid.
Whoever finds it hard thinks too much with his dick.
They are nicer. seem so anyway…
every other negative trait arrives at some point with all of them
I find it harder lol
My coworker is a true 8.5. She does fitness competitions and really takes care of herself. She is bat shit crazy but she says that very few guys even try to approach her. She is even pretty friendly, until you really know her. There is no way they’d know she is cray by looking at her so one must conclude that they are just scared.
How crazy is crazy in this case?
my new line is what I am calling “chicken bone” crazy as one of the girls I was seeing and had kind of a very strange relationship with for longer than I normally would not only made a voodoo doll of me with hair she stole from my brush but buried chicken bones outside my apartment and put some kind of Romanian gypsy curse on me.
My bar for “crazy” is set pretty damn high.
And ever since, you have to admit, you’ve not been able to successfully grow lettuce.
it’s true. No lettuce whatsoever.
I once had a girl literally miss school just to get fucked by me. She also had enormous amounts of religious guilt surrounding sex that made her basically insane.
That being said, that sex was amazing.
(It was a Polish Catholic school girl with the most amazing ass I’ve ever seen.)
I see much potential in you young dark one. I could train you and make you more powerful….lol
Catholic girls are a fun lot.
as zappa says “there’s nothing like a catholic girl at the CYO when she’s learning to blooooowwwwwwww”
Ha. I got your crazy. Lived with this girl in California who was hands-down the best fuck I ever had by miles and miles. She started saying things to me like, “Do you know what I’d do to you if I found out you were fucking another woman?” I shook my head, no. “I’d pour hot coffee on your back while you were sleeping and break it with a baseball bat.” I just laughed it off.
She started getting crazier and crazier. I’d come home after being out all night with friends and I’d find her sitting in the dark on the couch in the living room, wearing my clothing. Dress shirt, pants – even a necktie sometimes. One day I’d had enough and I bailed in a hurry and moved back to my hometown in the Midwest…
A couple of months later she calls me up (I was staying with friends, have no clue how she got the number). After a minute or two of chit-chat, she says, “I’m glad you left because I was getting ready to hurt you…bad…real bad.” She kept trying to find me 10 years after I left her.
There’s crazy…and then there’s fucking bat-shit murderously crazy…she was a nice bunch of girls. I’ll give her that much. (Turns out she put an ex-boyfriend in the hospital after breaking his back with a baseball bat; and she put her own son in the hospital after beating him within an inch of his life. Happy hunting. Be careful out there. And sweet dreams…)
Lol. Please do.
But @lolknee:disqus ‘s relationship with the Chinese has never been better!
Everybody loves Doctor Yu Rong!
Koreans actually….Kim Chi possibly?
Do Chinese-Americans have to pee in their own Coke?
bloody ‘ell Bob! thats some terrifying sh*t!
Very few beautiful, young women are normal. Imagine being worshipped wherever you go. That is their reality.
Actually they are far more normal and boring than you’d ever believe. Vapid and empty mostly, but easy to lead with some clever banter and open masculine confidence.
I get what you’re saying. I’m really just adding that they are, at best, mediocre personalities more often than not.
they are used to orbiters following them
They are empty inside more often than not, however.
A little less empty when I have my way
Word! It’s kinda ‘easy’ if u are a top 20% guy, if not, u r kinda screwed
it takes a seasoned eye to see the crazy sometime.
Yes. One has to be able to identify if the woman is female.
If the libtards have their way, that will be quite the challenge.
I’ve always adored the phrase, “You can just smell crazy on that one.”
Don’t believe what women say. She gets approached more in a week than a “hawt” guy gets approached in a good year. She might not like the guys that do approach her because her standards are insanely high, but she’s getting approached plenty.
Yeah, just like if you ask her about the number of guys she’s fucked… there are some guys she fucked that “didn’t count” so they don’t go into her number. If a guy approaches her who isn’t close enough to her SMV, then that doesn’t count as a guy approaching her… usually she’ll classify it as a creeper stalking her or something.
37! Try not to suck any dick on the way through the parking up.
One of my favorite movie scenes.
I had a girl volunteer to tell me her notch count because apparently she thought it was a small number. When she told me I responded with, “Holy Shit! That many?”. She cried for an hour then I added another notch and kicked her out of my house.
What movie is that from? It sounds hilarious
As has been said on other articles, guys who are too chickenshit to talk to the 8+ types will never really ever know how almost lonely they are. Yeah, every guy in the room stares at her, but nobody walks up and says “Hi” and the few that try usually implode in nervousness.
I have the, “I don’t give a fuck” attitude with the 8+ crowd. If I score, great, if not, fine. Funny thing is, the less I care, the more I score.
One of my very good female friends/former roommate is a straight up 9. Gorgeous girl. Learned she was batshit fucking crazy when sharing an apartment with her. Real eye opening experience. She was never lacking male attention.
These days not even a 4 is lacking simp attention
” There is no way they’d know she is cray by looking at her so one must conclude that they are just scared”
The other possibility is that all guys who are red pilled know that the haughtiness of a female is in direct proportion to her looks. So these guys may not necessarily be scared, but rather, they take one look at her, and they may think to themselves: “some where, some place, there is some guy sick of this cunt’s shit….. I’ll pass “
Oh I don’t think so at all. It can happen, but the most arrogant girls I find are the 5-7 range, who have overinflated egos from social media and guys approaching them thinking that they “have a chance because she’s not out of my league”.
It’s easier to get in with a girl who’s a 9/10 than a girl who’s a 6 or 7 out of 10.
In fact, it’s often surprisingly easy- thing is, so many guys cancel themselves out of the hottest ones and assume she has Chad Thundercock hitting her up 24/7…
It’s been my experience in the field that the super hot chicks know they’re hot and are super stuck up.
Not at all on this end. There are some yes, but generally guys are too chickenshit to talk to them. I waltz up and talk and they’re almost openly grateful looking.
Same here. Most hot girls stick out because of the female obesity epidemic and they act extremely stuck up
I gotta go where you are, man!
I’ve been saying the same thing for years. Lots of fatties out there thinking they’re tens.
This is my experience. I still approach, but they are fucking “can I help you?” bitches.
It’s the in between girls that develop that level of haughtiness. In between because she can look good or not depending on anything from the light to your personal preferences. The widely varying male response confuses them, so most either over or under estimate their appeal. If you’re genuinely beautiful you know it before you’ve left junior high. You know the card you’ve been dealt. Most assume that card is so powerful they won’t need another – and there are your empty headed 9s. Come to find out, beauty is not the skeleton key men assume, or woman hope, it to be.
Super hot chicks know they’re hot, and walk around with their noses at a 45 degree angle and the cuntish attitude, case closed.
I think most people who think otherwise primarily wish it was so, so it’s mostly confirmation bias. I see the 45 degree angle nose on a daily basis. It’s crazy that even the ones in their late 20s walk with that air of superiority even tho they are so close to the wall physically and biologically
“I think most people who think otherwise primarily wish it was so, ”
Yup – and infortunately one occasionally reads this false narrative even at ROK.
A woman’s demeanor towards a given man is determined by how she perceives his SMV. Cast iron truth. No exceptions. The 5-7 range may be snotty in general but melt for the right guy, just like the 8-10’s. I’ve seen it way too often to think that there’s any exception to the rule.
“A woman’s demeanor towards a given man is determined by how she perceives his SMV”
I hear ya but your remark does not contradict mine. A guy will do well with a 9+ hottie if he has a SMV that fits her resource criteria : drugs, money, fame, etc.
I’ve reached this point. Women who know their SMV here in Socal are incredibly ruthless gold-digging, spoiled brats. I’ve got some super beautiful notches and ex-girlfriends, but the drama is not worth the horrible sex they put out anyway.
So I usually pass on the girls with 5 pounds of make-up and move in on the girl-next-door types, unless there’s nobody else to talk with.
” There is no way they’d know she is cray by looking at her so one must conclude that they are just scared”
Nervious to ask ’em out maybe
She probably doesn’t count indirect approaches, or one where a guy doesn’t give her a compliment. Even a guy holding open a door and smiling is a sort of pre-approach. I sure don’t hold the door open for fatties… they may think I like them.
Thank you troy for a non depressing article .
Totally agree with the plow method and It’s something I use but didn’t know it had that term. My only modification is that….
“it doesn’t really matter too much what you say, you just need to keep talking”
I don’t necessarily believe its “me” who needs to keep talking but at least one of us keeps talking. I usually ask questions to keep her talking so I don’t say anything stupid and mess it up.
Troy is 100% right here: just keep talking. Excellent advice.
I expect he is going to get some shit for his “fake romanticism” though. Those guys who characterize all PUAs as basically being dancing clowns to entertain women, or who think all Game techniques are just ways of pedestalizing women.
Fake Romanticism is a good technique, and like Troy said, it can be a lot of fun. If you do it the right way, you can make her laugh, which is always good, but you can also subtlety start sexualizing the interaction, and even use it as a lead in to some kino.
But you have to have rock solid frame. You have to maintain a dominance and independence.
It is really tempting for guys new to Game to use Fake Romanticism because it seems easy and women often respond to it. The problem is, especially for recovering betas, it can be all too easy to slide from Fake Romanticism right into her frame and fall into beta orbit.
Too often betas will use Fake Romanticism as a way to say what they really actually feel, and just kind of cover it up by being grandiose and excessive about it. The girl will be able to sense the clingy beta desperate for the “love at first sight” myth to come true, and it will turn her as dry as the desert.
As odd as it may seem, you have to communicate (through nonverbal means) to her that, although you are saying all this mushy shit, you don’t really mean any of it, you are really just trying to get into her pants. You don’t really feel anything for her, other than passing lust. She’ll actually have more respect for that than a beta trying to hide his gushing in Fake Romanticism.
dafuq is that? lol
The man behind the Mystery Method. LOL!
I am not googling that based on current information
Erik von Markovik AKA Mystery:
yeah, uh, wow….just fucking wow
I’m pretty sure the stereotype of the clown PUA came from him.
that makes sense. I have long derided PUA “community” as being pretty fucking moronic so it would serve right that this was the acorn that that tree came from
I did. Here’s a fairly mind-numbing read.
Basically the first popularized pick up artist in American culture. His game was predicated on standing out and disparaging the biddies during the interaction.
I can’t remember a time when I was in a place where if that guy didn’t show up he wouldn’t have been politely escorted to the door and asked ever to return.
I got two sentences porcer. I can’t. I just can’t.
I wouldn’t think his methodology would work well either. Some of his concepts like not being complimentary to women I agree with. Dressing to appear excessively unique I would never do.
The whole thing just strikes me as insane and desperate. He is Canadian though. I tell people I don’t have any good game tips and I don’t. The only thing I can say is to be successful, fit, handsome, aggressive, confident to the point of flaw, funny, smart and have a name that arrives in a room a half an hour before you get there…..in essence, be me.
looks like he picks up little boys
Hey kneeman this is kind of off topic but do you have any music that you would like to recommend for someone who doesn’t really listen to music.this question goes to you as well ghost. I need some good music because a lot of this modern stuff is crap
Music, of course, depends on taste but I will be glad to tell you what I like. If it isn’t your taste that’s alright, but even so you will find it is red pilled as hell. I listen to, mostly, old blues. That is my go to. Bo Didly, Elmore James, Robert Johnson, T-Bone Walker, Sonny Boy Williamson, Lightning Hopkins, Lonnie Johnson, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker. If you like that stuff let me know and I will tell you some of the more esoteric stuff I listen to.
When I am not listening to blues I like to listen to folk and country folk like The Jim Kweskin Jug Band or John Prine, Charlie Daniels, Bob Dylan or Waylon Jennings.
When it comes to Rock music I like the Rolling Stones insofar as they are a “modern” take on the blues music I like. I also listen to Jazz like Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, Charlie Parker, Sonny Rollins and Dizzy Gillespie.
I like classical music and chamber music at times…Stravinsky, Beethoven, Bach, Mozart and even Mahler. I can listen to really good Cello players play just about anything and really enjoy it.
I am also a huge opera fan. My favorite opera is Fidelio by Beethoven but if you are just starting out on opera I think La Boehme, Fiagaro, Barber of Seville and Pagliacci are all good places to start.
You’ve got me really wanting to get some Conway Twitty into my iTunes. Dang it. Spending way too much on music lately.
on your iTunes? what are you 200. Christ, plunk down the 8 bucks a month for a Spotify premium account and leave your phones hard drive empty
Not going to happen, because my iPhone hooks to my bike speakers via bluetooth and it just works out so well.
Plus I’m one of those kind who actually likes to own his own art/music/books/etc. Knowing what I do about IT, trusting “the cloud” in the long haul is rather….inadvisable.
Not sure why Bluetooth would be an issue here. My headphones are Bluetooth and they work perfectly with my Spotify. Plus, for a measily 8 dollars a month I have access to pretty much all the music in the world with a very friendly interface. To each their own of course, but I am a big fan of designing playlists. I have different length and tempo playlists I make for different gym workouts, home cooking playlists, even special playlist just for my Christmas cooking, obviously date playlists and all the strt. Its really easy and super fun to organize if you are into that kind of stuff.
Look, it’s streaming right? I’m not going to waste my data limit for streaming music while out on the road. I ride a lot dude, you know that. The solution you’re suggesting is exactly the opposite of what fulfills my needs with my music. If I were just sitting at home, ok. But I’m on the road, a lot, and wasting my data usage to hear some songs while traveling 1300 miles is not my idea of a frugal use of data.
If you say “get an unlimited plan”, no, because they compensate for it by bandwidth throttling once you reach a certain point, and then I’m stuck “buffering” after a couple of days on the road.
What I use now is perfect for what I need, I can shop iTunes from my phone if I absolutely have to get a new song when out and about, and I’m wasting literally zero data.
In any event, I still want to pick up some Conway Twitty.
I don’t know about that…my coverage is good and work pays my phone bill….if the streaming is a money coster then yeah, I can see it. I haven’t paid a cell phone bill since about 2005. If it is a cost/use of amount of coverage or whatnot problem I get it.
That said, streaming service here is great. I am never buffering it comes in as if I have it saved on my phone,very cool. I have heard of bandwidth throttle. I don’t think I deal with that because of the corporate plan I am on. My phone internet speed is absurd and I often will watch movies, tv and always stream music on it as if I am on my home wifi.
If you are really wanting to pick up music and don’t want tot use a steaming service I would suggest bit torrenting. Before I got into Spotify I did that quite a lot and still grab movies that way….I already have all the books….just get a bit torrent client (I use utorrent and it is pretty easy but I bet the guys here would tell you where it stands in relation to competitors) and hit up sites like pirate bay or h33t. Free content = win!
Eh, but see, we come back to the whole “I like to pay good artists for good work” thing I have going on. If something is old, ok, I don’t mind the bit torrent. But the little good stuff being produced today I want to help encourage. Amon Amarth, those hairy vikings, deserve every penny I paid them and then some.
Yeah, if work paid for my phone, sure on spotify. But alas…it is not the case. Also, when you get out to Wyoming, the words “no bars” has real, literal meaning, and I’m not talking about places to go and drink.
yeah, I wouldn’t pay them to show up and play…even if I did like them.
“when you get out to Wyoming”
Bite your tongue. If I was ever in Wyoming my first and only stop would be wherever they sold rope long and sturdy enough to hang myself with.
Look up digitaldreamdoor.com just a bunch of music lists, but it may pique your interest.
cool. I tend to actually like the process of making them, but it can never hurt to have some pre-fab!
Dude, we’re talking about my iphone here, not yours. I know you won’t leave your ten block radius. I however enjoy traveling to beautiful places on my motorcycle.
Paying for things I like created by the efforts of people who do a good job doesn’t bother me in the least. If people stopped paying good artists, then good art goes away.
You should def check to see if there is some kind of nominal fee if you want to get your unlimited service to the next level where they don’t throttle the bandwidth especially if you are going to be traveling from just west of nowhere directly to the middle of it. As for my radius….while it is far more than 10 blocks, I do see what you are saying…there is lots of room in Azerbaijan, Siberia, sub-Saharan Africa and Jupiter too…just like the Midwest and just as relevant
What you recommend.. music wise ghost
There was a method to his madness. The outrageous hats and fuzzy boas were meant to show betas/omegas how to elicit shit tests. Their response to shit test, if solid, would then create attraction. That’s a big success for men who would otherwise not ever be attractive. It’s a confidence trick, in a sense.
The irony is that Mystery himself didn’t need the props. He could’ve gotten by on his verbal games alone. Great conversationalist.
I’m getting really into the harder type metal as of late. But Conway Twitty and some classic country stuff is great as well.
While I recognize his pioneering in this arena, I still have trouble ever really believing that he was a “thing” at one time.
reading the article and seeing he was on MTV I wonder how much of his “success” had to do with his methods and how much of it had to do with having a camera crew. I have always believed that an MTV camera crew could follow a bum around and women would be all over him
All I know about the guy is from this thread, but I would agree, the guy looks like a fruit.
He was a fruit. He basically pioneered peacocking, aka, dressing like a loon and acting like a dancing monkey. On the other hand, he also brought forth some really valid concepts that work. The problem is, he was inconsistent and as we know now, there’s more to game than dancing monkey game. He’s married to a 6 and is in tow behind her and his baby on the sidewalks now.
Glad I was done with dating before the gaming theory came out. Competition was low, women still had a traditional mindset.
He seems to have become a thing on this page. I like to think my contempt for especially hot women comes through in subtext without the open disdain dis-PUAs like him employ.
The best way to “communicate” with a woman is to either get her giggling, or get her talking about herself, which is, by the way, her favorite topic in the entire world. An excellent communicator in real life (not an orator on the stage) is almost always perceived as such because he can keep another person rambling on about herself while interjecting with humor and with leading questions. It hardly takes an real skill at all once you figure out how to do it. So nut up, have some well polished stories and jokes, and learn how to lead a woman back to her favorite topic with well placed acknowledgements and questions, learn to plow through regardless of how you “feel”, and you’re on the golden path.
An excellent summary of the article!
If there’s one lesson that I took from The Princess Bride, it was how to sum up properly.
Except if you approach a psychologist. In which case they’ll want to hear about you so they can fuck you up later. Its why I always ask what they’re studying or studied as part of the opening salvo. Gets them to talk abut themselves and helps me know what I’m dealing with.
In most cases psychologists are not worth it at all.
Oh, I’d have so much fun with that. I’d take agree and amplify to all new heights. If she walks away and doesn’t believe that I’m Charles Manson’s and Patty Hearst’s love child, I will have failed.
And that’d be the perfect approach to a psychologist. I have no doubt you’d be succesful.
At first, I thought you were confusing the word “psychologist” with the word “psychopath.” But then I thought about it, and I realized that I was wrong, and “psychologist” was the right word.
Care to expand on that? How do they fuck you up later? I’m genuinely interested, maybe an experience if you want to share
Amen! Most girls are SO happy to talk about themselves. Once they do, add a few patronizing joking comments and they will spend the rest of the night trying to prove themselves to you.
I have had it backfire on occasion. Always with the woman who has zero personality development who has spent her entire life coasting solely on her good looks. She’d never had incentive to learn anything, do anything, read anything, experience anything, because life was handed to her on a platter by an army of men. Further, since guys would generally be too afraid to talk to her in person, she wouldn’t have a sense of humor either. I’d spend a few minutes trying to get her to talk and only get “nothing” and “my job is” and “I don’t have any hobbies” and once it became clear that she was dead soul, I’d give her a “Hey, nice talking to you, I have some friends I have to say hello to, take’er easy” and walk away. Hate that kind of girl. If you have nothing to offer but looks and are drop dead boring, next.
ya, time to “next” them
I always took that as they are trying to be purposely boring so you lose interest and move on. Short, one word answers, no return questions, etc. I could be wrong.
I went on a date once and asked the girl “what would you do with two days off work”? She couldn’t answer. I was dumbfounded. The date ended soon after.
I know the feeling man. It seems like the number of girls like that is increasing
Well yeah, I normally take it as that, but I had one girl circle back and actually counter-approach me once I blew her off, which struck me as really odd.
I don’t mean the kind where it’s sort of a snitty, bored answer. I mean more the you can see that behind her eyes lay a vacant soul type of thing. The snitty bored are easy to read.
You can sometimes gauge by her body language if she’s putting up a shield to test you. You can sense she digs you, but don’t want to show it.
I’d admit, I have had that before. I met this girl at the county fair with her friends. She was in college, living with her parents. She invites me over for a movie and stuff. I go over, and she is quiet, and I end up helping her little brother in math most the evening. Finally I take off. I try to contact her two more times then figure she has no interest so I blow her off. About a month later, I ran into one of her friends. She asks me why I just dropped contact. Apparently, she really liked me, but was just dead inside. Either way, not something I would want to pursue.
I usually give those girls about 45 minutes to perk up. Otherwise, I’m outta there.
This is why sometime too much beauty in a women can actually hinder her value as a women..she has had guys trying to fuck her since she was 14, with the internet, she has guys from all around literally willing to do anything for her so why bother having a personality, having grace, character etc..She can be a cunt and still have 1000’s of guys at any moment trying to fuck her
A really beautiful girl with character and humility is actually a godsend
Could be, but when time is money its really not worth messing around with girls that play those games
What’s really funny is that this type of woman would later say that “you” have weak conversation!
yeah, that was way back when I was still in my early 20’s and thirsty
” so you lose interest and move on. Short, one word answers”
I think you are correct. Generally speaking, any twat is more than happy to ramble on about herself. But if the female is giving short one word answers, she simply is not interested in talking. This has happened to me a few times – and I immediately move on.
When I find a woman with that shitty attitude where they think they’re perfect, I like pick out a physical flaw they have and point it out to them. It makes them a little more self conscious and grounds them even if it’s just temporary.
Neg game is essential sometimes…serve it up!
I’ve always assumed that as well, and just cut my losses and moved on.
I’m not the quickest fella, and it took me until my mid-20s to figure that out.
I have to be honest. I think that its the ugly fat chicks that have the worst attitude. Really beautiful girls tend to be quite nice because most guys are afraid to approach them.
Its very offputting. I cut the conversation short immediately.
Women shouldn’t have any hobbies besides cooking. Hobbies are for men. One of the things I hate the most about Western women is that they have so many fucking hobbies. The more stupid hobbies they have , the less time and energy they have for a partner and potentially a family.
I’ve been rejected harshly by one one girl that looked good. The others were kinds like “I’m sorry but I can’t”.
But you’re right about fat girls having horrible attitudes. The funny things is I don’t even try to ask whales out and yet they’re walking around like Kylie Jenner!! It’s almost comical.
True but then the game switches to having enough stamina to listen to a woman talk about herself endlessly. And she’s under the impression that you like it. There’s a governor on that gas pedal — when they get too long-winded I tactfully bail out. By prattling on, they just flunked my own subtle shit test to see if they could possibly give a curious crap about the man standing before them. A girl has to reciprocate and be genuine about it, or we’re done.
” An excellent communicator in real life (not an orator on the stage) is
almost always perceived as such because he can keep another person
rambling on about herself while interjecting with humor and with leading
Pay attention guys, GOJ is dropping some good game
between the article itself and this comment i think you cracked the code here… the reason people tend to clam up initially when you approach them is they know they love taking about themselves…. all you have to do is warm the plate a little and the rest will follow…. once you get someone, man or woman to relax and open up a little and start talking about themselves, they literally do all the hard work for you and the hardest job you have to do is stay attentive to all their chatter…..
If you get her talking about herself make sure you add in some touching and sexual type comments so that you don’t get friend zoned. You don’t want to be the emotional tampon for her to vent.
Oh absolutely. You don’t do the caring friend thing. Keep it sexual and touch by all means.
Most women just are not worth any effort. Being a man means being alone…and preferring it that way.
You’re free to be a celibate hermit. Your father apparently didn’t hold your belief either.
Every time I hear a man say “most women just are not worth any effort” it let’s me know that man is a loser making excuses for why he can’t pull women.
I have a girlfriend.
C’mon… Who doesn’t like to speak about himself/herself? This rule applies comfortably on anybody.
“get her talking about herself, which is, by the way, her favorite topic in the entire world. ”
This goes back to the late 1990s when game was starting to get more refined.
The only time a female wants to know more about any guy speaking with her is when he has something she wants e.g.: cocaine, or a bit part for her in a major movie he is casting.
I think women know about this. I read an article on Jezebel yeah I know I do it to keep myself informed and aware of the threat feminism poses. Anyways they all agreed to ignore men that keep asking them questions or trying to make women talk about themselves. Instead they insisted on men talking about the men themselves about work life job car life goals etc etc. If he doesn’t have much to talk about himself then he is a loser and should be blocked or ignored for good.
I usually break the rule of hanging out with women as friends. But I do I make it clear that I won’t fall for their bullshit. I just ignore their shittest and ignore all their flirtatious bullshit which 90%of the time isn’t real they just do that for some reason even to people they aren’t interested.
Guy: My name’s Steve, and you are…
Guy: Nice to meet you, Jane. Are you here with friends, or…
Girl: Yes, I’m here with friends.
Guy: Funny, so am I. Let me introduce you to them (pulls stack of bills out of pocket). This is Franklin ($100 bill), Grant ($50 bill) and Hamilton ($20 bill)…guys, this is Jane…Jane, the guys…
(Try that one out a couple of times…you’re welcome.)
Is that customer game?
That’s “find a slut” game, yes.
Guaranteed to work as long as you don’t burn a hole in your pocket.
Guy: Your hotness is burning a hole in my pocket. I’d better take you home and introduce you to the rest of my friends before I spontaneously combust…taxi!
Smooth Bob. Smooth.
It’s all bullshit. They love bullshit. They are bullshit…
Indeed to the third power.
Spontaneous Cuban combustion
Pretty fucking good stuff there, Mr. Smith!
Grazie, good sir…
The girl on the top of this article is a pornstar by the name of Anjelica. She has licked Rocco Siffedri’s ass.
“I’m here with Lincoln, Washington and Roosevelt,” may not be as effective
Last winter I tossed a $100 (all I had at the time) on the bar to pay for my beer and I saw/felt two sixes immediately start gravitating toward me. I made eye contact with one and the way she looked back, I immediately knew I could take her home if I wanted but then the 8 I was with showed up from the bathroom and they vanished. The hungry looks they gave was as if I had tossed a kilo of pure cocaine on the bar.
We had a SERIOUS laugh over the whole thing.
That’s when you look her over carefully, look down at your money, look her over again, put all of your bills except for a single twenty back into your wallet and wave the remaining twenty at her with a wink and a nod.
They love that cash, don’t they. They worship at its altar…
So you’re banging hot girls for $170, Uncle Bob???
Jeebus…where are you living??? In S.E.A with PJC? (MIA BTW…) Here in NYC, $170 will get you a hand job at the rub & tug joint…
Would this routine double as a test of the “bimbo-ness” of the gal, since Andrew Jackson is on the $20?
Guy: Are you taking app-lick-cations?
Girl: Huh? For what…
Guy: To be your underwear. I’m feeling kind of crotchety and I need a good job with great benefits as well as plenty of room for solid growth and upward mobility…
please tell me this worked….
Never tried that one. I’m just freestylin’ here, homie…
o if I were singler, and drunker…..I would definately roll that one out.
I think it would work. Depends on the delivery. And the class of female at which you aim it…
If it fails, send it to the author of the article about the game that didn’t work.
Very good article, and very sound advice. Knowing how to talk and how to get them to talk is key.
Not to be negative, but at this point in life, I end up doing a cost-benefit analysis instinctively on the spot regarding “how much joy will a few bangs with this chick bring into my life versus the time investment in her, the shit-testing, her babyish emotional meltdown bullshit (inevitable at some point), etc.” For you guys here who have a lot of experience and still want to “plow ahead”, more power to you, but truly, caveat emptor.
Exactly, which is why I switched to P4P. I get exactly what I want (pussy, tits, ass slapping, maybe some passionate kissing) and none of what I don’t want at a predetermined price I can easily afford. Plus, the effort / time / energy put into it is negligible. Furthermore, it always feels so damn alpha, particularly when a gal asks too much for access to her pussy and I just laugh in her face and stare her down with an incredulous look…
“Exactly, which is why I switched to P4P…”
Hello Mr. Collins.
I believe we have had this discussion in previous posts.
At least you have had the luxury of “switching”.
I have never experienced the pleasure of attaining a female for free. Started with p4p at 20 (virgin before) and have been at it for 31 years. Yes, I bang very hot girls. And yes, I don’t have to come home to a nagging land whale. But…there is the loneliness and depression. In my 20s and early 30s I really did not feel it. From mid 30s to mid 40s it progressively got worse. And now, at 51, it is a like a 300 lb weight that I carry around all the time. As I stated in a comment above, it is far better than being a porn addicted omega chronic masturbater. But it is still far from optimal.
Well, I’m sorry to hear that, gent. I’ve had many GFs in my life — banged my first gal at 16, but didn’t experiment with P4P until I was 44 or so, or about 4+ years ago. Married once, lived with 3 other women at various times.
As such, I can tell you definitively, the trade off with “civilian” (non-pro) women simply isn’t worth it. Yes, the first 2-4 months is often fun and exhilarating in terms of sex, companionship and living within a conventional society-accepted relationship. But after that time frame, it’s ALL down hill, and it often degrades very quickly. Serial dating (nothing beyond 6 months) is a potential compromise to mitigate loneliness, but expensive and exhausting.
Couple of suggestions for loneliness / depression:
1) Get a dog
2) Get a platonic roommate
3) Bond more with single male friends
4) Coach a sports team
5) Develop more hobbies
6) Join car / bike / boat club
7) Write about your experiences and purge your negative emotions
8) Expand P4P to include entire vacation — go to Thailand for 2-3 weeks and have a mini-relationship there, for example. Have her spend the nights and be a tour guide.
9) Explore hypnotherapy treatments
10) Spend more time with extended family
Just my 2 cents…
” But…there is the loneliness and depression. In my 20s and early 30s I really did not feel it. From mid 30s to mid 40s it progressively got worse. And now, at 51, it is a like a 300 lb weight that I carry around all the time”
I hear ya – but really part of being a true man is the ability to be alone – seriously. Starting from when men were boys, we are psychologically manipulated for our entire lives into the scam that being alone is a horrible thing, and that having a female in his life is what its all about; and that is just plain nonsense. And I should add that I sure as hell do not care about porn, don’t care to watch it despite that I don’t have some [SARCASM] ‘sweet cup cake’ [/SARCASM] living with me.
It’s proper to enjoy life without the need of a live-in female in one’s life.
a man tolerates much torture over fear of loneliness…
“I hear ya – but really part of being a true man is the ability to be alone – seriously.”
Sure Mr. M, and I agree.
But there are limits.
I have been alone for all my 51 years.
And when I say I am depressed, I do not mean I am a medicated whale sitting on the couch. Despite what I consider to be a miserable life, I still get up every day at 5:20 AM. I still do my pushups, dips, and ab work 4x a week. I still take my vitamins and I still go to work every day.
“It’s proper to enjoy life without the need of a live-in female in one’s life.”
Sure again. And I was okay with that till my mid forties. How old are you? I just want what many (perhaps not a majority, but many) other guys have. I will never get it because I am not willing to settle for 2s, 3s, and 4s, which is what I would get if not paying for it.
“Sure again. And I was okay with that till my mid forties. How old are you? ”
I’m actually in my late 40s.
There was a time when I felt as you do now. And ironically I felt this way during my twenties – which is typically a time on a man’s life when he is most emotionally independent.
And over the years I had many girlfriends – and got to know the true nature of women, and I can tell you that one is better off alone than being with some beast who could care less if he lives or dies – and yes they (women) are all like that.
It sucks, I know.
Men who are married are not necessarily happier – especially today. Don’t kid yourself.
Is it really so bad that you are alone? What is it exactly is it that having a female in your life do for you?
“Is it really so bad that you are alone? ”
– Well, it’s better than being stuck with a nagging land whale, that’s for certain. But it would be great to be able to have a nice, young, thin, pretty girlfriend to take on vacations, go to shows, dinner, etc..
“What is it exactly is it that having a female in your life do for you?”
– Steady sex every without spending big time $$$ every month.
– Cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc..
– Someone who gives a damn about me.
– Someone who is on my side no matter what.
I realize that is rare, especially here in the US. 90% of females are un-bangable. Fat, ugly, or too old. Perhaps what I want – a young, thin, pretty girl in her 20s, is unrealistic for me. But I still want it nonetheless. I feel that I was cheated in life.
“- Steady sex every without spending big time $$$ every month.
– Cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc..
– Someone who gives a damn about me.
– Someone who is on my side no matter what”
Me too. But these women simply do not exist anymore (if they ever did in the past)
” I feel that I was cheated in life”
You were not cheated, but highly mis-informed your whole life (as we all were) on the true nature of women. They are what they are, and their flaws as humam beings have been documented as far back as biblical times.
“Just my 2 cents…”
All good possibilities, good sir!
“… but at this point in life, I end up doing a cost-benefit analysis instinctively on the spot regarding “how much joy will a few bangs with this chick bring into my life versus the time investment in her, the shit-testing, her babyish emotional meltdown bullshit (inevitable at some point), etc.””
At some point after a man has had enough pussy – it hits critical mass and the orgasm high no longer has the impact it did when one was in his twenties, which is the point in most mens’ lives where the almighty stink-box was the primary thing getting him out of bed in the morning.
That first girl has some really long … intestines.
I love a nice long intestines.
my friend says she’s a porno star
My friend agrees.
That’s an interesting angle.
The level of “swayback” in the pic at the top is a thing to behold.
Not bragging here, not by a long shot.
A legit 21 y.o. 9+ “new” escort I was with tonight was practically begging me to be my sugar baby.
To all you “Alphas” and PUAs who have girls throw themselves at you,
God bless you! I mean that sincerely. I envy that.
But to all you Omega, MGTOW introverts out there…get your heads out of the porn and the video games, use your intellect to make loads of cash, and bang hot 9s & 10s like there is no tomorrow! Sure, not as good as getting it for free, but beats the hell out of whacking off to porn!
Take my word for it!
I don’t understand your point here….of course she wants to be your sugarbaby. She realized you have money and are willing to spend it on her.
That is my point, CJ.
Some of us can NEVER be what Troy is, no matter how hard we try. My message is for guys who might think they can never bang hot girls. “Omega introverts” like myself.
If you can afford it, try it out for a few months! “Hire” her as domestic help… with sexy uniform!!
You’ve made a good impression then. For all but the extremely damaged few, having a safe, cool to be around benefactor is world’s better than escorting. You should consider the offer, Slim
BTW, one of the ads I am getting on this article has a picture of Amanda Seyfried. Man I would like to bang her. 30+ or not, I would still love to bang her. She is absolutely my type.
This is the most true thing I have read on this site. A friend said exactly this about 5 years ago, and I could hardly believe it would ever be successful, He told me the plan before we approached, and I pretty much had no choice but to follow his lead, as it was 2 to 2 and he practiced his own advice. It did end up working out ( he said to talk for a full 5 minutes before giving up ), and I have occasionally had the mental presence to practice that advice in the years that followed.
Why is the opening picture for this article an anorexic chick?
For this site is a true safe haven for all people, free of body shaming and skinnybitching.
You lard-loving cuck.
You’re describing a safe space. As such, you’re in the wrong place.
Try your local college, or the nearest HR department. You’ll fit in better there.
Concept of irony is lost on you, huh 🙂
If you’ve ever seen an actual real anorexic woman in the mid to late stages of the imabalance, you’d know immediately that a) that girl is nowhere in it and b) you are fit-thin shaming her appearance.
Nice job. For a moment there you almost had me.
More seriously, if I were seeing the gal in person, maybe I’d be enthused. Seeing her via the computer’s display, apathy abounds.
“Working theory” is that it is a natural, biological response. Biology tells us that a woman who has intentionally rendered herself scrawny is a woman who has severely reduced her fitness for reproduction, thus the male subconscious find her less appealing.
There are more liberated guys out there who can “subvert” the biological imperative, but I’m beholden to biology.
My loss is your gain, I suppose. That said, most of the stock photos of women used here have more universal appeal.
Women are no longer owned.
Women can live as men.
“…socially savvy enough to parody stereotypical romantic conventions.”
Rarely used, but IMO it works like a charm, just about every time. It lets them know you’ve had some sot of meaningful experience, and learned, and know the difference between reality and bullshit. Plow on…
STOP CALLING THEM HOT.
One of the reasons you have trouble talking to these women is that you think of them as “hot.” Start thinking of all attractive women as, “okay,” or “cute.” Pedistalizing them makes you ineffective.
When you don’t give a shit about the outcome you will quit pissing your pants over them and you’ll actually be able to maintain frame long enough to bed them.
Remember, WOMEN TO FUCK as much as you do. She is hoping you will man up and talk her into the sack.
All the coy bullshit is so they can satisfy the societal norm of superficial modesty they feel is required and so they can go class/work the next day without wondering if they are a slut.
The worst is buddies circulating tinder or instgram phone pics of “hot” women. “Look how hot this girl is on my phone” has got to be the saddest representation of manhood.
Son…. that’s just a well angled photo and she can’t see you looking at her.
At the climbing festival I was at a couple weekends ago the event photographer (an 8) was seriously eye-fucking me all day. I guess she was into older guys (I’m 41, she looked maybe 30). I ignored her except for the occasional wry smile when I caught her checking me out.
Around the fire that night I handed her my sheet music to hold as I played songs and sang. I hardly said two words to her.
During a break she word vomited how cold her tent was with her two-person sleeping bag all to herself. I kinda felt sorry for her at how hard she was trying. She was the only non-climber at the event and everyone had pretty much ignored her. She mostly hid behind her camera all day.
I actually ended up bedding a different girl that night because the camera chick seemed so needy that it set off my crazy senses, even though she was an eight and the one I bedded was maybe a 7.5.
Higher status women still often have trouble meeting guys. Always be approaching.
Great artcle, Troy (as they all are). You can use the plow method in other ways: when she wants to talk about you as a couple, or her feelings, you just plow her again, giving her more orgasms. She can’t talk if she’s worn out.
This. Exactly right. I have done the same thing in a similar context with Russian girls! Just keep talking. Don’t worry about the bullshit that comes out. They aren’t listening anyway. Of course, be careful with Russian girls. I kept plowing until the ugly one (its always the ugly ones) basically told me to fuck off. That totally killed the mood and elicited a rather unpleasant response from me.
I just got me a Realdoll. Pricey, cost me close to 8k, but I pound a hot, tight 10 every night now. Was well worth it.
I hate women’s personalities , it’s not even worth reading articles over anymore. most men , who actually are trying to self-improve and not impress shithead materialists, should not worry about how to plow thru a woman’s bullshit. there r some good women out there but it aint worth fightin thru hell 2 get 2 maybe ONE OR TWO SOMEWHERE. just work hard and the right chick will find u
what’s the point there?
save yourself being a buffon and rent an escort 100% sex guaranteed, save your time, not another “maybe” number in your phone list to work on wining and dining, you have time to go out with friends with empty nuts, or going back to your hobbies.
Today being in a relationships, even with a russian cute lady, means you have to pay, lose your freedom, listening to bullshits, abide to their rule, no interest in your life, no other pussy to score, end of freedom, chitty chatty with nosense friends who got her in the process, stupid sunday at the local mall and the list goes on.. are you in?
If that cute russian lady means a lot for you, as a wife example given you better remember where you live, in Pussyland! where you will be slave of her vagina for the rest of your life!!
case in point, if you are Troy, then do it, but since we are all DIFFERENT from Troy, the results may vary, so you want to have sex without problems? stop being a buffon or simulate someone you are not and keep it real, to have sex better to rent an escort!! and if you have a lot of money, women will be happy to be with you in any case, maybe this is the reason why Troy sells books?
Ancient wise people used to say: Homo sine pecunia, imago castitatis. they where right folks! damned right!
Remember, once you like to a girl, she will made everythings easy for you to score her! otherwise you’ll be the next beta male to use.
p.s.: foreign women are worth a fuck, not your life, and usually they will become more dangerous than the locals, plus their beauty will lure an army of starving joe’s ready to give a try to have the pleasure to fuck her, given female hypergamy, good luck to keep a stable relationship in pussyla-la-land!!
MN gals and Swedes are notorious for having blank, cold, unfriendly
personalities. You are constantly asking 20 questions and if you are not
asking they think you are ignoring them. Mentally exhausting but it is what it is. This was a
HUGE problem I had with my EX WIFE.
I just got me a Realdoll. Pricey, cost me close to 8k, but I pound a hot, tight 10 every night now. Was well worth it.