College once was an institution for educating society’s best and brightest to their highest potential. Later, a degree came to be seen as a guaranteed ticket to the middle class. During the 1990s, promoting higher education for the masses became a big effort. That social experiment demonstrated that not just any degree is worthwhile.
Low ROI majors
There are many articles online about degrees with the lowest return on investment. From “30 Worst Paying College Majors For 2013“, here are the ten least profitable, and their starting salaries:
- Athletic training: $34,800
- Culinary arts $34,800
- Theology: $34,000
- Special education: $33,800
- Animal science: $33,600
- Social work: $33,000
- Broadcast journalism: $32,700
- Exercise science: $32,600
- Elementary education: $32,200
- Child & family studies: $30,300
Many of the above salaries will increase during mid-career, but some less so. Why get deeply indebted for a degree that gets only fifteen bucks an hour, taking years to improve? Further, traditional housewives always have been experts at both culinary arts and child/family studies, even illiterate Bronze Age peasants.
Low opportunity majors
For many “soft studies” degrees, there’s a very limited market for new graduates. Career paths for an art history Ph.D. are:
- Museum curator
- Art history professor
- Fivebucks Coffee
How many unfilled job openings at museums requiring Ph.D. knowledge are there? New York City is the Mecca of the American art scene (though say what you will about today’s recent quality). The Big Apple has a few dozen art museums, but in a city of 8.5 million, that’s not quite a gold mine. At the big ones like MoMA and Guggenheim, competition for high-ranking positions must be pretty fierce.
The academic track is competitive too, especially in obscure subjects with questionable social value (like art history) or none (see below). Also, qualified candidates can forget about becoming professors in many faculty departments if they don’t hold the “correct” political views—or at least fake it until tenure.
What can a feminist do fresh out of college? Career paths for a women’s studies Ph.D. are:
- Professional activist
- Women’s studies professor
- Human resources
- Fivebucks Coffee
How many feminists does a nation really need to prosper and flourish? Putting it more seriously, professional activism is a dodgy business plan.
Not every Tumblrina can successfully monetize her attitude into a full-time career. The market is already saturated beyond economic viability with feminists (likewise SJWs and White guilt engineers) living on donations. As for foundations, the big-name agitators get rich, but the apparatchiks would do better working productive careers. Finally, why do would-be professional activists need college educations, since having an opinion is all that’s necessary?
Job statistics are rather thin for women’s studies grads, unlike their waistlines. Payscale indicates the most common job is administrative assistant, seven respondents earning an average of $14.81/hour. (A secretary with an attitude—what’s there not to love?) The five respondents who became community outreach coordinators—whatever that means—did somewhat better, at $16.56/hour.
Leftist underwater basket weaving degrees
Other bullshit degrees include gender studies, GLBT studies, fat studies, among several worthless victimology “studies”. Sociology offers the entire cultural Marxism buffet, but no practical value. (Engineering, medicine, and computing provide useful jobs, but how does learning sociology benefit society? For that matter, can’t you get a thorough education in fat studies by working in a fast food joint?) These “disciplines” are what Harold Bloom called the School of Resentment, a legacy of the Frankfurt School. Academia needs more honest people like Bloom, and fewer postmodernists, critical theory eggheads, and other leftist drips.
Can someone get a middling salary without massive college debt? Garbage collectors earn an average $15.25/hour—better than those feminist secretaries! That doesn’t count extra gravy from overtime. Also, garbage men aren’t stuck with student loans (unless their career plans went awry). Moreover, hauling off trash isn’t a dream job, but this 90% male occupation is certainly necessary to society.
I tried to find stats on gender studies graduates. Apparently there’s no such category, but Payscale’s search engine popped up three janitorial listings (another low-end but necessary job). What’s a gender studies program even about, anyway? The University of Indiana helpfully clarifies this:
The Program promotes a critical, feminist, and cross-cultural understanding of structural inequalities in a local and global context from historical and contemporary perspectives. Students explore the intersections of gender, sexuality, social class, nationality, ethnicity, race, religion, age, and ability. The Program seeks to understand and address how the contributions and experiences of women and other marginalized groups are devalued. Therefore, the Gender Studies Program is active in facilitating and supporting a variety of activities and events concerned with social justice.
Why is getting degree in cultural Marxism worth going into debt? How is it more important than being a truck driver or a welder?
Students need real career counseling
Choosing worthless majors means huge debts will haunt graduates for years. Congress changed the law to please the banksters (they make hefty “campaign contributions”), so student loans can’t be discharged through normal bankruptcy proceedings. Therefore, the debt millstone keeps accumulating interest, potentially following some graduates to the grave. The colleges and their bloated administrations get filthy rich from this arrangement, and especially the banksters. They’re failing their alumni, but why would they want to fix this?
For the students, buyer beware. Some might laugh at a “Generation Snowflake” kid for believing a $120K salary would result from a doctorate dissertation about institutionalized oppression of Muslim Elvis impersonators, or intersectional perspectives on lesbian ninjas. These naïve, Blue Pilled youths let themselves get scammed, but those selling them empty dreams are the most blameworthy.
Although they seldom have much experience with work, budgeting, or managing debt, students entering college make a life-changing decision, for better or for worse. They need a cost/benefit analysis for an informed choice. Cigarettes have warning labels, because cancer and COPD are kind of a drag. In that spirit, students need warnings about the financial risks they’re incurring.
Prior to enrollment, colleges should have freshmen review information about outcomes for their chosen majors. (If there’s insufficient data for statistical relevance, an aggregate of similar colleges will do.) That should include information from surveys of recent graduates, tracking annual outcomes through at least five years, concerning items like these:
- Annual income
- Job situation (unemployed, part time, full time)
- How long it took to find work
- What types of businesses hired them
- Their actual job descriptions
- Their living situation
Students should also be told the following up front:
- Average completed degree cost
- Projected monthly student loan payments
- Projected interest added by payoff
- How long it will take to pay, given anticipated income and living expenses
Before committing to a major, students would get a realistic financial forecast. If a four year leftist propaganda degree probably means living in Mom’s basement, flipping burgers part time, and $80K (before interest) in student loans, they might choose a real major instead.
Now take action
Imagine fewer kids becoming brainwashed SJWs. Imagine women’s studies departments as empty as the Harvey Weinstein Charm School. Let’s do this. Write your politicians—if even 10% of you request mandated disclosures necessary for an informed career choice, it could get some serious discussion in Congress at the very least.
Leftist professors now on the gravy train will howl with rage, but that’s their problem.
Read More: Female Executive With Music Degree Oversees Largest Computer Hack In World History
105 thoughts on “Bullshit Degrees Are Scamming College Students”
hand rubbing intensifies
Just think, with all those student loans to pay off, and all those useless feminist degrees that secure you low paying positions at best, these women won’t even be able to afford cats. They are going to die truly alone.
They may end up hunting and eating cats or at least learn to appreciate the flavor and texture of Meow Mix.
I think one of the lesser known issues of why student loan debt is on the rise and graduates are making lower wages is because of the foreign work visa program like the OPT, H1b and L1. A lot of American graduates in STEM fields are finding that either no company wants to hire them, or if they do get hired, it comes at lower wages. Companies love foreign workers because foreign workers, especially from India, will happily work for cheaper wages and longer hours as long as the company rewards them with a green card one day. Visa programs have single-handedly destroyed jobs for new grads, and lowered wages.
I wouldn’t say single handedly destroyed, but big contributor. A lot of stem type work just doesn’t happen here in the US. Add to that, there is real work needing to be done that doesn’t need a stem degree (plumbing, electrician, mechanic, machinist, systems engineering, tech support, etc…) or even a degree at all.
One obvious fix would be to end the student loan program as it stands now and treat those loans like any other. Remove government guarantees. Tuition will fall like a stone just by removing the artificial props. Sure, some will get hurt by this – the college presidents, sjw track professors, construction firms. You wouldn’t believe the amount of new construction going on at the big colleges, all because they have dumpsters full of cash they need to spend to maintain the illusion of “non profit.” Large segments of modern society have been granted the status of winners simply because of patronage at the highest levels of government.
The nose knows….
Culinary arts usually offered a free training or for less then a grand you can get certified.
Not that I know of. I’ve spent a ton to learn how to cook during the years.
It’s Indiana University, NOT the University of Indiana.
Who cares? Liberal craphole no matter what the name.
Indiana University had a chapter for Trad Youth. Trad youth used to teach these SJW’s a lesson every time they marched in libtard Btown. IU even created a sodom dorm while Frats are getting kicked out of their houses in the university. The last year was all anti Trump bs by these professors. The only good professors their were the foreigners from Europe and I was in a STEM business major. IU has a lot of cute girls and the best party scene so, I can’t complain much. I just have a feeling all of this is going to change soon to the worse. However, I’ll tell anyone who wants to join IU do not go to any university at all. Most of what I learned in class could be learned in Udemy courses.
I agree with you in terms of university. The only issue with not getting a degree is that the entry level job market is so competitive, especially down in the land of Oz that it’s seen as a requirement.
And that’s if you picked a wanted field such as Business or STEM. There a huge amounts of Law graduates or heck even Enginners that cannot even find entry level work because we keep importing qualified people with years of experience. The university bubble is a pretty good scam, sadly society seems it as a victory when it’s really our worse nightmare.
I can’t help but recognize when people gratuitously laud ‘STEM’ degrees that they themselves do not have one. These people say things like ‘basket-weaving.’ STEM degrees are just as worthless as liberal arts. Something like 3/4 of STEM grads are in a field outside of their degree. The white collar class is being affected by H1B1 just as much as any other, so that is not an incentive either. The only surefire way to land a professional career is finding a blue collar job that offers a free education with the adjacent community college to move up into the white collar sector of that corporation. A business will not invest those free resources unless there was a substantial R.O.I.
STEM degrees seem irrelevant because right now, you Americans do not have an economy which is dependent so much on manufacturing as it is on services. But your President Trump is doing his bit to remedy the problem. Here, in India, the four core engineering branches, particularly civil engineering and chemical engineering are in huge demand. Civil engineering is not much talked about, but it is pretty much required because of the infrastructure building frenzy going on. The same goes for chemical engineering, only that the focus is now shifting from fuels to polymers, if we talk about the biggest piece of the pie. Actually, the field which is upcoming and will be booming for quite some time will be environmental engineering, which comes under both civil and chemical. The trick is to identify which of the four core engineering branches you are most compatible with and get into at least a diploma program, if not a degree. And believe me, education in the US is still far more flexible than it is in India.
STEM + clearance= good pay and opportunities.
You’re probably going to need to have citizenship for higher clearances like TS/SCI.
Only if you want to do meaningless bullshit systems engineering or maybe software. If you’re an engineer that likes doing actual engineering, anything above a basic Secret won’t open many doors. And Secret is so common there’s no real economic advantage.
STEM will soon turn to dog shit with imposed gender/diversity quotas. Thanks leftists !
At Penn State, you had to be gay, or pretend to be gay, to keep a job teaching art. I had a professor who was “gay” that always hung around with a “lesbian” and chuckled when he mentioned being gay, which was not very often.
Lots of openings for programmers here in NY.
Contract or Full time. Good rates too.
Yes, the H1B situation is bad. But American kids can still do well in the field. Especially if they have a good work ethic, can speak well and know how to act around important users like head traders and investment bankers — the H1Bs cannot do this, for the most part.
STEM are becoming irrelevant all around the western world as we become less and less industrialized and, in my case, fall deep into socialism and into financial crisis.
I’m Indian, and my dad’s elder sister lives in Houston. Her two daughters are both crazy SJW’s who vote Democrat (particularly Hillary Clinton). While they’re still not as bad as the average Indian-American girl in the US, they still believe a whole lot of rubbish, particularly about education. They have degrees in useless subjects like a BA in French and Political Science, and actually think that it’s proof that they have been ‘educated’.
The traditional career path seems to have disappeared unless you’re in finance, medicine, or trades. I hear mixed things about law, and tech is being taken over completely by “progressives”.
In my experience it’s all about hussling and networking now.
I wanted to go to law school because I hate cops and the USSA’s criminal “justice” system but I had a self-defense incident resulting in charges of attempted murder, aggravated assault, resisting arrest, and recklessly endangering the lives of others because I was assaulted by and pistol whipped some asshole and his cop brother. It cost me everything I owned to stay out of prison. I plea-bargained for reckless endangerment, got probation, and moved out of the USSA ASAP. Fuck that high-tax, SJW shithole. High pay, low taxes and lots of pussy teaching English in Taiwan
Also got an MA in TESL here for about six thousand bucks.
You are correct. It is about hustling and what kind of network you fall into. The major does not matter. The sociology major and engineering major can end up in the same financial zone because a sociology major can still come out of college and take some IT certifications and if they are a true hustler and networker they can end up doing as well as the engineering major.
Dont tell me about it.
I’ve got to tell you, the fluff degrees are a real scam. Even at the most prestigious universities, the majority of the degrees are fluff. I went a prestigious university which I won’t name, but its perennially ranked in the top ten in the nation. Many Art History, Women’s Studies, and African American Studies majors went to law school. If the law school was in the top ten nationally, they usually ended up fine. But those that didn’t go to a first tier law school were not served well by their fluff degree, except that the ones with trust funds only needed the degree for social status. I was a computer science major. I am retiring next year. For the past 20 years I have had a six figure annual income. But even for me, the opportunities have thinned out. This is partly due to my age, but mainly due to the fact that over 80 percent of all computer programming, systems analysis, and software development jobs in the United States, go to Asian Indians on the H-1B Visa. This is a fact that most Americans who are not in the Information Technology field, are remarkably ignorant about. Even those who have heard of the controversy surrounding the H-1B visa are remarkably ignorant about it, because they get their information from a media that is in collusion with the corporations that benefit from using this visa. The same thing or worse, is happening to people with engineering degrees, even if that degree is from MIT or Stanford. So what’s a person to do ? I don’t know. I’m lucky that I’m on the back end of my career, and I have sufficient savings and investment property to no longer need a job. But I will tell you this; the American elite has made the decision that 5 mediocre people from schools in shithouse countries like India and China, are worth more than one American graduate of MIT or Stanford. And what India and China both have is an infinite supply mediocre people.
I confirm what you’re saying. It’s a total disaster that will take many generations to fix. The market is flooded with third world guys who got their diploma from a kellogs corn flakes box. The level of mediocrity is stunning, it’s a fact but the greedy fucks who run the corporations only care about cutting costs to increase their own bonuses. These guys are for the most part white westerners executive don’t understand squat about IT.
white westerner babyboomers……
JEG&IIC Syndrome in action !!
Diversity !!?? Err.. wait.. wait !! Satya Nadella & Sundar Pichai are CEO’s of Microsoft & Google because of “diversity”, and because they work for less pay than a “local …” !!
Ajay Bhatt pioneered USB standard because of “diversity”, and because He works for less pay than a “local …” !!
Shiva Ayyadurai pioneered the Email because of “diversity”, and because He works for cheap/low pay than a “local …”
Disney replaced majority of their lazy, demanding, qualified (!?), sincere (!?) and expert (!?) “locals” with some dumbers from some where; Who are Capable enough to do the SAME work, in the SAME office location but for less pay than the “locals” !!
Indeed, JEG&IIC Syndrome in action !!
*Jealousy, Enviousness, GRUDGE & Inherent Inferiority Complex !!
If you are so superior, why do you flee your wonderful country to come here?
All your roads are mud pits, because y’all can fly like Superman, eh?
Truth is, you and your ilk are parasites sucking a superior system dry.
So just go home with your B’S.
Most Americans are ignorant about the H1B scam because 1) tech nerds make a big deal about how cerebral and esoteric their field is, like it’s hieroglyphology, and 2) most of the people who got forced out for H1B visas in the 90s and 00s, like good little whores, took a large payout and signed their NDAs.
Pop culture and perception took over the rest.
In Taiwan I can live on working twelve hours per week. Anything more is bank or partying.
American smokes here are less than two bucks a pack. That’s like free food.
Medical care is dirt-cheap in Taiwan. I recently got surgery for a hernia. It cost less than a new alternator for my car.
No open container laws. I can sit on the corner drinking a bottle of Jack Daniels with no problems.
Seven percent income tax! Imagine that.
What city are you living in? I lived in Tainan and Kaohsiung for a few years in the late 90’s, early Aughts. Yes, 15 hours a week can definitely pay for a modest lifestyle. I was also able to save up money enough to take a couple lengthy backpacking trips through the Far East. But all in all, you’re really not making much compared to even a mid-level job in the States. Yeah, the cost of living is not as much in Taiwan, but you’ll also be hard pressed to ever pay off a real estate purchase given Taiwan’s current housing prices. In other words, you’ll be stuck living off the land for the rest of your life. And what happens to health care when you decide to retire and need it the most?
As stupid as it might sound, a degree in fortune telling could be a very profitable business. Some Gypsies have become incredibly rich. Perhaps it’s time to put our pride on the side and learn from them.
1) It is free
2) It requires basic skills
3) You can make lots of money
4) You pay no taxes
5) There are always plenty of idiots out there
6) You are your own boss
7) You can even conquer the hearts and pockets of fat/unattractive/disgusting/hateful feminists
Let’s start our own university degree in Fortune Telling for Strong and Independent Women
you could be a vegan/yoga coach too.
Good one! A little far out there, but it kinda makes sense.
This shit already exists. It’s called astrology. And emancipated vagina-life-support-systems have been “majoring” in it for decades.
I enjoy visiting this website: https://www.biddytarot.com/btp109-learning-about-lenormand/
And then there’s this field of art: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tarotcreator/the-mini-venetian-tarot-cards-deck
I was paid 50 000 annually as a high school teacher in Scandinavia. Teacher salaries really suck in the US.
Not always William.
Depends on the area and “tenure”.
I have a cousin (an ultra liberal hag) who teaches in a near ghetto area of the same county in which I live. And the kids she “teaches” are just about un-teachable. She is more like a high paid babysitter.
She makes $110K/year.
For working perhaps 6 hours a day 180 days/year.
Not to mention the benefits and pension she will receive. And they wonder why the US is in so much debt.
Yes, America is a huge country, both geographically and population-wise so I would expect massive variation, but the vast majority of public school teachers are in fact paid low salaries, although roughly 30 000 seems incredibly low.
100 000+ sounds like a lot for “teaching” our (((future))) but good for that person.
I would prefer if all schools were private.
Or home schools.
Government schooling is a failure and a gross waste of money. At least here in the US.
Fools and borrowed UNEARNED money are far quickly parted than just fools and their earned money.
Weep not for the gullible because you cannot teach wisdom to a fool with no personal frame of reference for the lessons they do not yet know they will learn, and they will refuse to assimilate even if they knew. until personal pain and frustration is added to the equation, the lesson will not be learned, nor the wisdom heeded anyway. if a fool follows the easiest path of least resistance to a perceived goal, little will they realize its a downward spiral into a hell that they will either inhabit or have to struggle to climb out of, one act requires acceptance that they f**ked up and wish to repair of fix their situation (IE the PAIN they must endure to crawl out of the hell they created, a WILLFUL act), the other requires them to do nothing but blame others and remain in the hell.
A sucker is born every minute and I will not cry over idiots.
One nephew got a “liberal arts” degree from a mediocre college. Worked for daddy for some time, then got training as a massage therapist. I would be very embarrassed to tell peeps that was my profession, but that’s just me. That is now what he does, and he’s married with 2 kids.
His sister (my niece) went to a good private college, only to get a degree in philosophy. After working in a low-level job in the (((entertainment industry))) she got through her boyfriend, she now works as a projectionist at a movie theater in NYC.
Not exactly setting the world on fire, those two. I achieved more with no degree, though I admit I tried the college thing, after a couple of years knew it wasn’t for me, and joined the military. After that, went on to success in blue collar/manual labor fields. Have always been able to support my family without wife working.
You can dis their professions for being a little weird but at least that’s an honest living.
Oh, I agree. I’m just pointing out that these smart kids got stupid degrees, and now at ages 30 and 32 I’m thinking they will never advance very far or make much money. Waste of smarts and ability.
I wasn’t that smart but took some risks and was always motivated, so achieved some things (even by their age) that I’m proud of.
Just hope my massage therapist nephew doesn’t resort to giving “happy endings” to some of his higher-end clients (in LA) to make the big bucks.
While a STEM degree is a bit overrated and is no guarantee of success, a STEM major certainly gets a lot more respect from employers than some liberal arts fluff major. With a STEM degree, you’ve proven that you have the chops to learn difficult subjects. While I never got a job directly related to my engineering degree, I did get my first real job related to my minor and it paid pretty well. A degree also gets you past the HR screeners, as the absence of a degree is a resume’s quickest path to the recycle bin.
It’s a shame that too many kids actually believe the “follow your passion” bullshit and end up massively in debt with a worthless degree. Passion is important, but so is being practical and developing skills that employers value enough to pay handsomely for.
Here’s an interesting interview with an economics professor who lays out all the reasons school is at least 80% wasteful–not just college but all school. It’s strange hearing this coming from a fat-and-happy professor but he sounds smart and maybe he gets credit for being honest. https://degreeornotdegree.com/is-80-of-school-a-waste-dr-bryan-caplan-makes-the-case-against-education/
the 80/20 theory theory applies to a staggering amount of things in life.
It depends on where you live. My daughter got a teaching degree and started at just over 50K a year to teach elementary school. Add to that frequent days off for holidays, at least two plus weeks at Christmas and all summer off, she has it pretty good. And, the cost of living in this area a still pretty low.
I agree though that the others are pretty useless.
A ‘STEM’ degree will land you a $10 lab tech job at best, whose ‘careers’ are basically government programs for useless studies funded by taxpayers, no differently than welfare parasites. That’s why those ‘scientists’ go on those marches begging for funding.
Those girly sciences of ‘STEM’ like biology or chemistry are basically just relearning the high school overhead slide projection, only this time you’re paying for it. Unless you’re a Third Worlder, where a first world education is invaluable and allows you to become a princeling because Third World educations do not translate or qualify in the First World.
The last date I went on was some disaster whore bitter at the world, particularly men, and I knew immediately that she was one of those overachievers from high school that got a full ride to some storied university down South, expecting to be rewarded…and sure enough I saw that she was one of those biathletes that also received awards for a perfect GPA or something…and what did it all amount to, despite all that Affirmative Action and accolades? -Working as a mall cop, aggressively hitting on guys like me who are entirely unapproachable in public with headphones on.
So if you must go to college it should be based on pursuing a career:
1. That you not dislike – you don’t need to love it, but you’re spending 1/3 of your day there so find something durable.
2. You are good enough at – it should not be something that is ‘your dream’ or helping you ‘find yourself’ like women do, but allows you not be outcompeted.
3. You must decide the range of income you hope to make – some fields you will barely make a middle-class lifestyle, while others will help you become upper class, but the work is fierce and is not just a ‘job’ but a way of life (like a surgeon). Then you might end up stuck with an income you are not satisfied with and must start all over in another field.
Plus, it’s not what you know, but who you know.
Also, just do yourself a favor and pay off your student loans today. All it does is accumulate interest. A few months ago I got so sick of it hanging over my head that I called up the federal student loan racket and told them to stop my monthly deduction and just wired them about $13,000 to finish it off. It would have taken another 5 years and another $5,000. Just empty your bank account today and be done with the Ponzi Scheme forever.
I agree with your post but I don’t see why chemistry and biology are “girly” subjects.
Not girls ‘subjects’ but girly degrees. Look at the statistics on the graduates…overwhelmingly female. That should tell you something, considering that women can’t do anything. I recently discovered that the stereotypical hot but dumb chick I grew up with (who was always very friendly and Mexican) is now a lab tech at an Ivy League school researching bumble bees. I’m not saying that latent intelligence is not possible. I’m just saying it’s suspicious because even those with perfect GPAs from my region could not get into prestigious colleges for undergrad degrees.
Sounds like the “hot but dumb chick” got herself an OK job. Not brain surgeon wages, but OK.
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at the raw ignorance of your comment’s first two paragraphs. My brother got his girly doctorate degree in Pharmacy and has done VERY well for himself and his family. He vacations abroad at least twice a year to expensive first-world countries and has enjoyed a lifestyle that 90% of Americans would envy. I guess my bro didn’t get the memo that his degree was only good for a $10 lab tech job and that his career was a horrible choice.
Considering that my brother and I are the grandsons of a Kansas sharecropper and we had (at best) lower middle-class childhoods, we (especially him) have done pretty well overall.
Higher education isn’t always the golden ticket to success, as it depends greatly on the quality and type of degree (an Associate degree is nothing more than a glorified high school diploma and a Masters degree in history is almost useless outside of academia) as well as the individual’s work ethic and ambition. Not everybody is cut out for college and I get that. To be so utterly dismissive of the value of higher education and how it can help lift many (but certainly not all) people to a better quality of life speaks volumes about one’s own ignorance and bitterness.
I did exaggerate a bit, but you ‘basket-weaving’ degree ‘sages’ pretend that your exception-to-the-rule personal anecdotes nullifies everything. How old is your brother? When did he attend college? What country? You cannot just go into pharmacy with a chemistry or biology degree, which is what I was getting at. Good try at pathologizing me. Your rebuttal reminds me of a white knight bachelor touting the benefits of marriage, while shaming MGTOW. I call them hopeful virgins.
*Ah, I see you said sharecropper. You must be a Baby Boomer. That explains EVERYTHING. ‘Well, in my day…’
Sorry pal, but different dynamics are at play in the Current Year that your anachronistic mentality cannot conceptualize no matter how well it is presented to you.
I’m fully aware that an anecdote is just a single data point and proves nothing. But at the same time, blanket statements (especially when thick with hyperbole) are even less useful. Just because one person fails despite a degree in X doesn’t mean everybody with that same degree is guaranteed to fail. A degree merely improves the probability of success, it doesn’t guarantee it. There’s a lot of variables at play in what makes a person a success or failure and I only touched upon two of them (work ethic, ambition).
As for my brother, he is certainly a Boomer. Got his Pharmacy degree at a prestigious California university in the late 80’s and retired last year. I’m 15 years younger than him, and am very much a Gen X’er. Maybe my rebuttal did smack of white knight behavior, but I make no apologies for defending my bro’s choice of career and its results.
But you do raise a good point. The economic climate has certainly changed in the past 30 years. Would my bro be as successful if he graduated in 2018? Probably not. With the influx of H1Bs pulling wages down and HR’s emphasis on diversity hiring, he would certainly be facing a more competitive job environment.
Thanks for the ‘anachronistic mentality’ crack. Now get off my lawn, kid! (shakes Commodore 64 game controller angrily).
Of course there is frustration, but that’s not my point. College is not just useless these days for MOST people, it holds NEGATIVE value. It is NOW a Ponzi Scheme being advertised like vocational training for anything you want, when MOST of what it teaches are outdated skills. I will use my own personal anecdotes and state that I do not know a single person I went to school with that is using his STEM degrees aside from the lab tech or sales thing…and these weren’t dumb guys either, but people from professional dynasties. Is everybody I know just unlucky and underachieving? Maybe. But I cannot help but notice a pattern that defies logic. What is the point of accumulating debt and thinking you are going to hit the jackpot to pay it off? It’s like indentured-serivtude. Technological innovation is also eroding the need for this type of education. This ‘rite-of-passage’ business model of university does not make sense anymore. Why do you need to waste 4 years of your life and mortgage-worth of debt to get a ‘well-rounded’ medieval education that does not even guarantee usefulness? There will be another way eventually.
In my blue-pill days I had an FWB relationship with a single mother who was studying psychology. I mean, what the hell could a 28 year old waitress single mother possibly do with a bachelor’s in psych? I mean, in theory she could have gone on for the doctorate but what are the odds of a working single mother being able to do that? I knew a childless woman from a wealthy family who barely made it through that gauntlet.
Also, can anyone explain the appeal of online degrees to me? Paying -more- money to listen to pre-recorded lectures seems completely insane to me. You’re also cutting out networking and campus life, which are half the point of college.
Online degrees are fine for post-graduate degrees, after you’ve already gone through the inanities of undergrad life. Or if you’re pursuing a bachelor’s degree as an older student with a life who doesn’t need 4 years of hookups and binge drinking.
I knew some people who had Masters Degrees in psychology. They were working as orderlies in the local mental hospital and subject to all kinds of nasty violence perpetrated by the patients. Don’t bother with psychology unless you want to go all the way and get your doctorate.
You should remove Pepe the frog from the last picture. You don’t want people thinking RoK is an alt.right hangout. Otherwise some good points.
Hate to break it to you, but it is Alt-Right now, just like the rest of the manosphere.
As I understood, Pepe has become kind of a psychological op. He’s meant to make the media/liberals look foolish since “normies’ will think they sound completely insane when they try to claim he’s a hate symbol. “What the hell are they talking about? It’s a frog for fuck’s sakes.” In the same way that conservatives/Evangelicals sounded like pearl-clutching killjoys when they complained about Dungeons and Dragons, Marilyn Manson, Pokemon, et al.
The difference is that D&D was just a game for nerds, Marilyn Manson was just Alice Cooper without the talent or sense of humor, and Pokémon is just a kids game. Pepe, on the other hand, has become a hate symbol, or at least a symbol of the fascist right, but in a surreptitious, under the radar way. More “normies” (Lord forgive me for using this word) are aware of that, nowdays.
Difference is that Marylin Manson is merely Alice Cooper without talent or a sense of humor, Dungeons and Dragons is a nerds game and Pokémon is a kids game. OTOH, Pepe really is a symbol of the extreme fascist right (that’s why his creator disowned him). “Normies” know this, and that’s why he should not be used.
Remember that Bridge that collapsed in florida a couple of days ago: http://sandrarose.com/2018/03/diversity-fail-women-engineering-team-behind-collapse-miami-pedestrian-bridge/
Find out the jobs/trades with most demand & consider those. CDL, hvac, whatever. Chances are very slim youll get outed for a mystery meat tranny due to virtue signaling at a blue collar trade. After youve learned the ropes, apply those skills to create your own company.
while this is a good article, its unintentional message is that you should only be doing this for money. that’s a monkey-in-a-suit mentality.
if you love something and want to do it for a living, then do it. if you love theology and are fine to make $35k a year, fine. my problem isn’t with that. my problem is when they bitch about “deserving” more money that there’s insufficient demand for.
*doing THINGS (not ‘this’) for money
The thing about degrees such as Art History, Anthropology, or Philosophy is that they are often pursued by sons and daughters of the wealthy and elite. In other words, young adults who simply decide to pursue degrees in these fields (purely for the sake of enjoyment and interest), alongside the fact that they wouldn’t have to worry about job prospects based on their specialized subject or major in university. Having come from a privileged background myself, a lot of my friends growing up have gone to attend university not for the sake of gaining a degree for employability, but for the sole purpose of the ‘social’ experience.
I’m not saying that these subjects should be exclusive to the wealthy or elite, but that a huge problem over the years have been students pursuing these degrees with false hopes only to land themselves in an insurmountable amount of debt. One potential solution is to encourage people in a position wherein they must be prudent with their finances to read and study these subjects as a hobby while specializing for a trade or degree with higher employer value. I think the biggest problem is that we constantly reinforce this false message to young teenagers that just going to university is enough to guarantee financial success, when in reality most kids who are less academically inclined would be better off in trade if their goal in life is simply to sustain financial security.
Overall, I think it’s nonsense to claim with absolute certainty that subjects such as history, literature, and philosophy have no use in society. I believe that the application of these subjects to society is less direct than say science, thus people easily overlook the indispensable nature of these subjects. Of course, the simple truth is that while you could try to be the next Plato or Shakespeare or Aristotle, what are the odds of getting yourself there? You’d have to be a certain kind of genius to make such a profound impact with the sort of knowledge or skills you’d acquire from a B.A.
I went all the way in anthropology–a PhD from a top Ivy League. Taught for several years after, got tenured, promotion, etc. I was taught by classical anthropologists of a different era, when the knowledge gained during the degree actually meant something. Western Civ was exploring the far corners of the world, the last undiscovered country, meeting and coming to terms with the different peoples who lived there. One professor I had was a grand old man who sounded like James Earl Jones, told stories about getting drunk and fighting off crazed ax-wielding villagers with his revolver, getting strafed by biplanes, bitten by snakes and sucking out the venom, trading goods for food…all for the sake of knowledge. He used statistical analyses, charts, graphs, quantitative and qualitative data, all in all a rigorous assessment to build his case and expose it to the critique of peers.
Nowadays, anthropology is a shadow of its former self. It is all about writing about their experiences taking it up the ass and calling this “reflexive anthropology,” blue haired harpies into S&M talking about oppression in their everyday lives, and descriptions of the lives of sex workers in Bangkok. It’s about “researchers” studying internet chat rooms where communities of pedophiles hang out. What a crock of shit it’s become.
I eventually rejected this career path entirely as I simply could not relate at all anymore. Took up a second career in a much more masculine, hands-on field I’ve always had an inclination toward. Though it has taken some time in my mid 40’s to get established at it, the journey has been worthwhile so far. I would not go back to teaching, and spreading such lies, if I was offered a full professor position endowed by the Ford Foundation.
I’m not concerning about that. Here in Europe the education is universal and free, the way it should be, plus you can get scholarships and grants, for investing yourself in education.
Meh. I get the OP’s point and it’s a good one, but I stopped taking the article seriously when it put down education as a low-paying degree (it may be the study included low-paying part-time toddler /day-care home-based schools, for example). It’s one of the highest starting pay in the US and the world when you factor in longevity, benefits, etc. especially so in e.g. Florida where a starting teacher in 2014 made $40K plus full health, dental etc. over 9 months–plus NO income tax, small home tax, etc. Show some research ability…like you were supposed to have honed in College.
As a major Philosophy sharpens your ability to organize and think and unsurprisingly is the highest paying major–but bimodal, an interesting degree like art that attracts many dilettantes or folks who use its insights to better their general education. Thus many take it, like art, as a ‘hobby’ degree or a second major to add to their first, but those who ‘professional track’ who have talent/IQ to take it seriously (can’t do DiffyQ and Linear Algebra/ORSA or handle complex proofs? That’s what’s expected in Intro Philosophy IF you’re ‘professional’ track…) rule the GRE’s, tend to have an additional 2-3 majors (history, engineering, management/military science are common), and go on to be multi-millionaires, top physicians and attorneys, or boffo scholars, scientists, and educators.
There is a whole ‘nother discussion that college degrees are not about becoming rich or glorified skills school but being a scientific or community servant.
If you know where you’re going any degree is good if you use it to better your abilities. If you don’t know, college can be a pricey place to discover you don’t know, but there’re many free and low-cost/by exam colleges in the US.
You mentioned a very important point: “If you know where you’re going any degree is good if you use it to better your abilities.”
Maybe some young adults know what they want out of life, but you have a common issue where kids in university lack a minimum degree of self-aware necessary to take advantage of whatever resources are given to them. Certain kids may feel the pressure to get that degree even without a sense of self or desire. I don’t blame kids nowadays for doing so. When parents are adamant that a piece of paper from an elite institution is the golden ticket to success, whether it’d be financial success or the type of success where you create a profound impact on some sort of academic community, how can we expect kids to take a step back and think for a moment what they want for themselves when society has established such a formulaic, discrete pathway for the general population? We can tell kids to find out who they are and not care about what other people think, but that’s just easier said than done.
I’m not sure about this whole idea of STEM degree = $$$$, therefore we must assume that people are being set up for failure. Not to say I’m disregarding the data that concludes STEM majors are more likely to earn higher salaries than arts majors, but this information matters if you want to make money. Do most people want to make loads of money? Probably, but believe it or not there are people who have goals in life that are beyond building up a net worth to reach the 1%.
I agree. There are a LOT of ways to make sufficient money in western countries. A degree is possibly one way, if the person is good enough in the field, but probably no guarantee. I think the STEM drive is more in reaction to a perceived need for more engineering types from a domestic background rather than relying on importing them all from China.
Yeah. Just look at that bridge in Florida.
My last foreman was a really smart guy who had a degree in chemistry or chemical engineering, and a minor in biology. That got him some crappy job in Indiana doing uninspiring lab work and testing, and no big bucks.
He went into the blue collar world as a manager and is happy
Although my own story may be antiquated, I was raised by parents and grandparents who lived through the depression and WWII. Which meant you worked hard for anything more than your family could provide. But you learned and appreciated the valve of those things because of work.
I did a couple of tours for Uncle Sammy during the shit economy downturn during ’70’s and came away with enough experience, gumption and a family to support, (Motivation.) that dovetails quite nicely with the construction industry. Having gone from $9k to $90k over my career history is what dreams are made of. Especially if you have a true passion for what you do.
But years ago I learned these things to be a success at anything.
1. Be smart enough and never stop learning- ever. The more you learn the more you will earn. Any schmo can swing a hammer. I’ll pay you more if you use your head.
2. Work with and for good people. If they suck dump ’em.
3. Don’t rely on luck, cause it’ll run out. Practice risk management, not risk avoidance.
4. Hustle. 90% of success is showing up. The remainder should be set aside to convince the boss why he should bother to keep your ass around.
5. Your self value means nothing if you don’t bring any to the bottom line. It’s nothing personal, it’s just business.
6. Find yourself on your own time. Not when you’re on the clock. (And put that fucking cell phone away!)
7. Have a positive attitude and out think the competition. Time is money.
8. Be an adult. If you can’t cope, arrive on time, meet or exceed expectations I don’t care. You’re wasting the chance and trust I gave you.
9. Be productive. The World has its quota of parasites.
10. Make a budget and discipline yourself to live within it- always. Debt is slavery.
Take it from any cat over 50 who doesn’t have any college or his head up his ass.
exactly what i was taught and raised to be.
If you’re not five minutes early, you’re late.
Again, another well articulated and realistic article from Beau Albrecht. Excellent points, Ray. Like you, I too was raised by Depression Era/WWII parents with the same set of values. I supplement my day job by teaching in a welding program as an adjunct in the evenings at a local CC. Dealing with numerous industrial accounts in my day job, and teaching in the evenings in a 9 month vocational welding program, I’m amazed at the need for skilled welders, machinists, millwrights, multi-craft maintenance mechanics, electricians, plumbers, pipe fitters, boilermakers, iron workers, etc. I once wrote an article for this site on the need for skilled welders, and it was met with quite the hostility with many of the younger readers. IMO, anyone who goes into tens of thousands of dollars of insurmountable debt for a worthless piece of paper from a leftist/misandrist university has been duped, or is at the very least, highly delusional. A life of banal, low paying, or minimum wage jobs is what many will have to face. Caveat emptor.
“Write your politicians”
Also regularly check Department of Education listings at regulations.gov to see if they have any items open for public submissions, with terms-of-reference around which you could draft a response addressing our concerns.
Mike Rowe says that trade schools are a more practical choice. Though not necessarily a path to riches, proficiency in a useful and marketable skill of one’s choosing can mean a modest and reliable, steady income, and, in case one’s degree proves mostly fruitless in the workplace, a backup plan B and very little student loan debt after graduation. A few years ago my friend J (single, late 50’s, no kids) attended truck driving school, and since then has never been unemployed longer than two or three days, tops. The school also halved his tuition because he chose to begin classes during Labor Day weekend. He drives long distance, full time, and his average yearly salary is over $55K. Second example – two of my friends have their nursing degrees, and their skills are currently in such demand in the workplace that they’ve been pretty much able to pick and choose who they wanted to work for. Though they both graduated with debt, they were able to pay it off because they’re never not able to find well-paying work in their chosen professions. Just saying.
Degrees in nursing are awesome for getting good pay and having good pick of jobs and locations. But that work takes a special sort of person.
Problem is, a lot of decent paying jobs require a piece of paper to say you paid the toll or had your indocrintation camp attendance.
Trades aren’t all they’re cracked up to be. Working like a dog into your twighlight years and praying your back or knees don’t give out isn’t living the dream. Sure the money is respectable and the jobs are there at the moment if you’re good due to supply/demand. But if men start leaving white collar jobs in droves and take up trades it will become cut throat and low pay. Not to mention we will essentially be surrendering to the HR wet dream and be the low-pay manual labor underclass carrying and empowering our adversaries whilst they sit in their air conditioned offices in mostly superfluous roles managing us.
Managers are first to be hung during a revolution. Viva la revelucion! A bas l’etat!
Well, there’s not much fear of men, especially this current generation of men, leaving white collar jobs, or even service jobs and hit-and-miss freelance jobs, to infuse and flood the trades, especially if one reads the many negative commentaries on this site about trades and blue collar workers, or visits with today’s average high school counselor and/or helicopter parent. I’ll agree with your statement that certain trades, especially building trades, take their physical toll on men as they age, but I submit that trades such as machinists can work well into their 70s, if health and physical stamina allow. Several men in my family continued working as machinists well into their 70s, including my late father.
Solid points. That being said, why begin the article with information regarding ROI for higher education from 5 years ago? It automatically looks like you did not put forth the effort to find new or relevant information… a simple Google search for 2017-2018 would have brought you the current listings of low paying jobs with bachelors degrees. Granted the jobs are still relatively the same. However, the cost of education has changed since then as well as the cost of living. I completely agree that the schools should provide the additional data for potential students. Just because a school boasts a high graduation rate and the graduates have a form of employment after graduation has little to do with life after graduation. Talking to people in the field is really the only way to discover the information yourself. The schools will tell you anything to get you to enroll.
Do the research into the schools and areas of education you wish to persue. Inflate the current cost of living with the potential of a repayment of student loan in the area you are most likely to become employed at the entry level pay and see if its worth it on top of any other loans or obligations you have.
Learning a trade will help you earn an income but, will limit your scope of practice. If you choose to move on from that profession you start back at square one, any and all certificates and licenses you hold become meaningless.
Teaching can be a worthwhile profession. The issue becomes that some people utilize it as a fall back career, thinking that the work is easy. I was recently at a bbq talking with a teacher who said pretty much this. I have a few teaching friends, and they seem to always voice complaints about the slack they have to pull for others. It’s a shame, it’s a noble and crucially important career.
Heh. Theology is a low ROI major? Any atheist could have told you that.
Yet other writers on this site tell you that Christian theology has magical powers to save Western civilization. The market, which finds and transmits the consensus of millions of people, says otherwise.
I’m pretty damn confident in saying that the people writing these articles all have different opinions and lines of thought. It’s up to you to decide what you feel is right and what you feel is wrong. Even on a website that doesn’t fill itself up with SJW shite, you still can’t believe everything you read, you still have to use critical thinking.
Good Article. I’m just hoping that I can dodge all of the SJW bullshit, and all of the identity politics when I go there. Just a query, have they contaminated the Computer Science degree with feminist crap? Or is it just about SJW free!
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My twin sister was diagnosed with COPD few years ago. She was on a trial for some months. It turned out that the drug she was given was not a placebo, but the real thing and it was working. Then they pulled the plug on it saying it was not viable! So. they got her on another trial, that trial also was cancelled after a while. 2017 I ordered COPD herbal remedy from Best Health Herbal Centre online and they shipped it to me. i only used the COPD herbal remedy for 5 weeks, all my symptoms disappeared, i stopped wearing oxygen and my family doctor confirmed am COPD free now.
I like the idea of this thread – informed consent before getting fucked with a worthless degree and non-dischargeable debt. There are two road blocks:
1) The universities themselves – they are in the business of selling degrees and will resist any impingement on this revenue stream.
2) Parental ego. The parents would much rather brag about their stupid rudderless and unemployed kid with the worthless degree and mountains of debt than their son the truck driver.
I say let them continue studying worthless degrees. It will only provide us smart guys with the real jobs in the real world, where we can make a contribution and show our kids what the right path to success looks like.
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