150 thoughts on “The Myth Of The Happy Married Life”

1. The Idea that a hoe (wife) is gonna reward you with sex when you conform to her bossy needs in the house makes me sick of any married man.

   1. @ THIRDWORLDMAN
      That is only true of the beta cucks out there……marriage or no marriage. If you maintain SMV, even in marriage, she will see how other women act towards you and won’t pull that bs.

      1. Isn’t maintaining SMV (assuming that’s really a thing and just not something Roosh made up) kind of like playing a fish even after you’ve landed it? Kind of takes all the fun out of it, doesn’t it?

         1. Exactly, so the choice offered here either toiling all your life in jobs and then getting cucked or divorced rape by bitches or toiling all your life gaming the bitch you married hoping she wont cuck you or divorce rape you. The MGTOWs have a point there bros.

      2. ^^^^^
         THIS!

      3. I honest to almighty God don’t know why more of the family law cabal and their minions don’t end up on the sharp end of jousting poles. We haven’t had enough of them yet? Family/clan formation is natural and tribal, encoded in our DNA and is a natural right for members of our species to follow our genetic programme. An outside force hindering family formation would just as well throw the subjects in stables if unchallenged. It’s a game of dominance. Jacking with the sexual order of the species is akin to desocializing a child (socalizing as in communicative development, not the political lobbying definition). Like throwing a kid into a corner permanantly to stunt their social and communicative development. If humans form families then so be it. The detractors hell bent on regulating the family and dismembering it can get the hell out of the way. Our DNA when properly expressed has survival mechanisms to thwart enemies. Let your DNA fly and joust the naysayers to family/clan formation. Instinctively react to hostile anti family figures in your path. Why? Because they are anti-YOU!! When on earth are western men going to stop getting processed by the anti family court bitch system. Every day in the anti family bitchcourts men and their families are like meat animals being thrown into a hot dog grinding machine being rendered down, dismembered and destroyed. Equate the anti family bitchcourt system to a meatgrinder. Don’t hand me a summons to appear at some grinding machine court. I ain’t going in there and neither are my wives or kids. Is this YOU? Are YOU going to be that sheep or goat or mule or meatcow?
         
         I say FIGHT the bastards. FIGHT the machine. That could be a hot dog plant but I think they’re rendering those critters down for dog food maybe or high end shampoo/conditioner products. Maybe soap products. What do you think?

         1. ‘Family/clan formation is natural and tribal, encoded in our DNA and is a natural right for members of our species to follow our genetic programme. ‘
            No it is not.
            The direct, clear, irrefutable evidence demonstrates the opposite.
            I say this as a Christian, and therefore I would LOVE this not to be true, however, here is the evidence I refer to……
            1) Genetic data demonstrates that throughout human history every 1 man has reproduced for every 7 or 8 women.
            Think it through.
            It’s a slow burner and refutes almost everything you thought you knew about ‘civilisation’.
            One thing is for sure, the concept of female sexual monogomy is NOT factual; but instead ‘aspirational’.
            2) The world you live in.
            ‘Family clan formation’ is clearly not occuring.
            If it’s ‘encoded in our DNA’, then whyt are so many milllions of women, the women who control reproduction, voting throughout their lives to fund a Welfare State that destroys this ‘family clan formation’?
            If it was as natural as breathing (ie somehow ‘encoded’), then the transparently obvious consequences of their political actions/votes; would cause them to stop.
            The opposite is happening.
            Despite the destruction of the Real Family, women ALL OVER THE WORLD without exception, vote for bigger government to replace Fathers and Husbands.
            These are disturbing facts, but facts none the less.
            Regards, MCGOO

         2. ps.
            In the late Neolithic era, lasting for between 800 and 1500 years, the sexual reproduction imbalance was 27 women for every 1 man.
            Interesting, isn’t it?

         3. @Windmills:
            The 27 number is high. Possibly after a period of war and with liquidated males, a chieftan may impregnate 27 females but this 27 number could not hold constant but rather cyclical depending on political climate and turmoil.
            In today’s male regulated/female deregulated west, things have gone beyond cuckery. A typical low tier woman is a whore and gets impregnated by a mix of sperm from multiple males. The seed mix is like the dubious source milk contained in a milk tanker truck where many hundred dairy cows are extracted milk along with blood and urine. It all homogenizes out.
            Still the natural number for male sires/female mothers is not a one size fits all number. Aboriginals in Pacifica with I believe the H haplogroup are very primitive and matriarchal. In a village one big fat den mother is the clan matriarch and she keeps all property. She wears a toothed necklace as she stirs a cookpotpot of human bones and tripe while she snaps her fingers at the smaller worker male pets. She too opens her legs as consolation favor to whatever pet male is in the vicinity when she gets the itch for it. Thousands of years of this and the dominant creative male traits are dead and gone!!!

         4. @MCGOO edit: my bad on H haplogroup. I meant K2b1 and C1b2a

      4. YouTube m’en lise Brad Pitt ?

      5. Keeping oneself in shape physically (exercise, eat well, balanced work-life time, etc) and mentally (game, frame, Amused Mastery, etc) is critical married or not married. You are doing this for yourself, men, as men should pride themselves in their physical and menatl fitness. ❗ Dread Game when wife (or LTR or whatever you are banging) is a must. I cannot stress this enough. Dread is critical, but also game. Do not frustrated your wife, by being weak, by allowing her to dictate terms of the relationship, or by trying to placate her. Be the man. Be charming and friendly to her, but only return 2/3 of whatever she gives you. Read Commandment V on this: https://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/
         There is this system called “Taken In Hand” for marriage and non-platonic relationships. This is basically a non-Christian version of traditional Christian marriage. The man wears the pants in the relationship, the woman goes along, and it works fine. The man acts like a man and the woman as a woman. There are boatloads of women sharing their experiences, asking questions, etc… check the site (even if outdate, due to owner lack of site maintenance). But the info is there, plain and simple: http://www.TakenInHand.com
         No one, man or woman, can accept a spouse that becomes obese, lazy, and disgusting over time. My woman aged in our time together, but gracefully. I made it clear before we got hitched that I would stay in physical shape, would be loyal, and demanded the same.
         My marriage worked out fine. We stayed together and worked towards our goals through thick and thin. But again, despite my overwhelmingly positive martial experience, I do NOT recommend it anymore in 2018 America. The laws are totally against you and the women have declined in quality to an extent that they are not worth the risks involved anymore.
         Think about it: if you let yourself go, especially in your hygiene and appearance, married or not married, your quality of life will go to s#it. Same with your woman. The whole expectancy of some men and women that after marriage they can turn into unwashed blobs is preposterous! 🙄

         1. “Think about it: if you let yourself go, especially in your hygiene and appearance, married or not married, your quality of life will go to s#it.”
            Interesting idea but WRONG.
            In the west when my wife was tired of me she accused me of being dirty and smelly (one of many personal accusations).
            In Asia when my wife (and/or gf) thought I was dirty they took me in the shower room, showered every part of my body, dried me, massaged me on the bed then banged me.
            Absolutely no reason for a woman to make accusations about stuff she can fix.

   2. I would say you have 50/50 chances. know why ?
      cause if she felt entitled to have more, she probably file for divorce.
      OR she will conform, which is a rare skill required by a man to obtained.

   3. I see your point here. It’s a risky business. Many married couples focus on hedonistic pursuits; bigger house, money in the bank and an Audi in the driveway. They should be focusing on family instead. Being a bread winner is a large part of being a husband and a father, but so is being a fair minded leader and emotional support head of the family. Be the man and you will be treated like the man. Be the money slave and you will be treated as such.
      It’s not enough to work hard and make money, chicks can do that. A man runs his shit and climbs the ladder of life, not just business. A rising tide raises all ships. Your wife and kids will learn from you and respect you, or if your just a workaholic who holds money over their heads, they will resent you.

      1. Jim
         thats an absolute great story and for the most part its just a dream ! most of the divorces are initiated by the women for very silly reasons.
         emotionally unavailable ( she dont like you anymore…), cheating ( even if you’re the MAN ) or she became too much obnoxious …etc.
         EVEN when you’re doing your best.
         i see it in many people lives….the entitlement of hoes are simply unbearable and will change after some years to reach dead end.
         Damn, I believe in relationships IF i want one. but marriage ? please…. its never good for the man in today society.

         1. That’s because those women never were family-oriented and wife material, NEVER. Neither before they got married nor afterwards. They didn’t become someone’s wives because they wanted a family, a lineage, to raise children, make memories with their husbands and grow old watching their kids become adults and make their own way in life. Those women got married because they wanted to tick a box, they were at the age they were supposed to be someone’s Mrs., they wanted someone to take care of them, they were tired of bar hopping and riding the carousel, they wanted a schmuck to ‘save’ them, or they just needed a sugar daddy. The majority of divorces are initiated by THESE women, not by those who got married because they wanted a marriage/family (as opposed to a wedding day). Ever wondered how come women from patriarchal societies, let’s say from Muslim countries, remain married to their husbands even after moving to Western countries AND getting Western citizenship, with all of the applicable advantages (accepted divorce, benefits, schooling for kids regardless of income/marital status, access to the labor market etc.) included? Because they were raised to put their families’ needs above their own individual ones, i.e. I’d rather stay married to the husband who no longer gives me ‘gina tingles than have my kids grow up without a father. This is 90% the mentality in EE, where I come from. Yes it’d dwindling but it’s nowhere close to the 0.1% of the one in Western countries.

         2. Again, I do see your point. Marriage is NOT for everyone, man or woman. It’s a risk, as is any other endeavor like the stock market, starting a small business, or driving a car. Yet we still invest, look for opportunities and drive to work. The old saying goes “nothing risked, nothing gained”. We can sit life out in our safe little spaces or we can blaze the life we WANT with all the inherent risk . That perfect life is different for everyone. I happen to enjoy supporting and raising my family more than anything else. It gets tough and miserable sometimes but you just stick it out and the sun breaks through eventually.
            I think maturity has something to do with it. I joined the US Army shortly after 9/11 and volunteered for a recon platoon. I had a great job at the time on the verge of 6 figures. I wanted the excitement and the adventure I knew I could get with the world situation. All I can say is that after 6 years of constant deployment in dangerous places, I’m content to read my daughter bed time stories every night and share a bottle of wine with my wife.

         3. TWM,
            Jim is living in western la la land. As a husband it doesn’t matter what you do or how you behave, because all the choices are hers and she makes all her choices based on her trivial feelings of the day (and the feelings of her friends).

         4. Hoplite,
            Women from Muslim countries remain married to their Muslim husbands because they have little or no options. Going for divorce as a Muslim woman is saying goodbye to your community and family. No Muslim would speak to that woman again (including her mom, dad and siblings).

         5. Both Jim and ThirdWorld make excellent points:
            The issue here is overwhelmingly a LEGAL problem, not so much marriage itself. Pair bonding is a natural NEED for human beings. We can TRAIN ourselves to become cynical about it and compartmentalize the need for pair bonding, but sooner or later, it will manifest itself.
            I do NOT recommend getting married anymore, even if, as a Christian, it pains me to say this. The negative legal ramifications and the blatant abuse and bias by our corrupt Family Law Courts, has made marriage a terrible idea.
            The problem for men like myself, who actually WANT to have children and leave a legacy that makes a difference (quality kids), is that my ONLY option (besides marriage) would be to have kids with an LTR, non-live in girlfriend (in my State, we have common law marriage, so NO WAY she can move in). This presents a whole set of problems, of course. Marrying her is a terrible legal risk, even worse then being sued for child support, because if the woman wants to leave anyway, if married then she will get Alimony and 50% of my shit (even if I get a Prenup, it can be dismissed by a bitchy FemiNazi judge on a whim).
            This situation of having a child with an LTR (who also wants a kid) sucks for our child, of course. It would be infinitely better for child to grow up in the same home with both parents. God, I fu#king hate the criminal, divorce, and child custody laws in this country. 😡 But that does not seem to be an option anymore. Also, there is problem of low quality of American women across the board…..
            The other problems in the OP article can be managed and are not nearly as bad as the author states, IF you can find a decent woman (very hard, but not impossible).
            The real serious problem here is LEGAL, a FemiNazi court system set to destroy men. It is criminal system read to imprison men for false female accusations, family courts ready to divorce rape men and then steals their kid(s) and income.
            *sigh*

      2. There’s a problem with all that, Jim
         It’s called The Law.
         Under current (and future) law in the West, it is not up to a man to be ‘The Man’.
         That can ONLY happen if his wife decides to let it happen.
         See the contradiction.
         The moment she changes her mind, everything changes.
         If he doesn’t like it, the marriage is over.
         Your advice does not apply to Western men anymore, sadly.

         1. You are 100% right Windmills
            I think Cuck Jim’s emasculation is affecting his judgement.
            “…I’m content to read my daughter bed time stories every night and share a bottle of wine with my wife….”
            Obviously Jim lives in a State where a MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE must be produced before you can purchase a bottle of wine….or read a bed time story to your kid.
            Then he goes and uses shaming language:
            “I think maturity has something to do with it….”
            A Married guy that uses shaming language towards single guys is a DEAD GIVE AWAY that envy is involved.
            There is NOTHING that he can do that a single guy can’t.
            NO MAN should EVER get married to a Woman that has a net-worth lower than his…..

         2. windmills you might have missed the point.
            Let me explain:
            “You can not be “The man” as long as you bow to the law.”
            By simply respecting the law, you make yourself 2nd class, lower value than the one who wrote the law. This is one (of many) reasons why convicts are so popular with women.
            The king does not respect the law he MAKES the law and this law his women (plural) will happily follow. To this man they will be loyal and give their lifes.
            A marriage works best when husband and lawmaker are one and the same.
            For those christian readers:
            The nun marries Jesus, biggest alpha who could cheat death himself.
            If you want to be “The man” you have to go the full distance.
            Doing so while living in a socialistic country from the US to the EU and back…well my friend, this will be kinda difficult.
            You will be a tax payer with little more rights than a slave, do you reallllly expect any women to respect someone like that?
            Think about it. Long and hard.

         3. April 8, 2018
            Maldek
            You post rather contradicts itself.
            I won’t trudge through an explanation as to why, because that is self evident.
            ps
            I left the West and now live in a traditional, male ordered society.
            All western nations are anti-Christian.

   4. But we want optimal civilization – so enter both patriarchy and polygamy lite. ‘Lite’ meaning you take no more women than you can support. If you can’t afford shoes for them all, that’s too many sisterwives. Three is a magic number and many optimal sex positions come naturally and domestic household function and kid rearing is optimized with two pussies, four titties and four hands on deck at home while daddy is out in the world slaying and making bank.
      Spreading your seed far and wide on the other hand despoils many virgins and detracts from domestic formation. Patriarch must capture his virgin(s) young and clean for optimal long term loyalty and service.
      Sure a loosey goosey mother of 5+ becomes very sloppy. If the patriarch has the wherewithal, he therefore deserves the right to pan for a sisterwife as soon as the primary breeder wife is in need of extra hands domestically. Down time is reduced to zero for the man with the magic number 3 arrangement. Down time is when the man has to totally drop his empire building activites to run and take the breeder woman to the hospital or to run home and answer to some frivolous manufactured bullshit. It’s daddy full steam 100% in the world and homecoming he enters swinging his rod like Arnold Palmer and the cycle continues – civilization is always on the build and on the rise when the man’s constructive activities are unhindered since they operate on an inertia cycle. YU NEVER want to disrupt a man’s inertia cycle like a light switch. That’s called bitch matriarchy and is what taxes civilization the most.
      Plus a wylie alpha spreading seed far and wide without concern for the ecosystem of civilization is like a wild crapping dog in the house. There’s a perfect sweet spot balance somewhere between rogue free thinking and acting alpha and the constitution and order of total patriarchy that works the best.

      1. Marrying a virgin you can really mold her to your desired spec!

      2. Damn youve thought this through. Any good resources out there on this arrangement?

   5. Of course. Family law is written to deter any effective response to women’s negative behavior and reward women for manipulating, using, and divorcing men.

      1. Exactly.
         That’s why SITES LIKE THIS EVEN EXIST !!!!!!!!!!!
         Sheeeesh.

   6. The underlying issue that has made Marriage 2.0 (the current fraud the FemiNazis have turned marriage into all over the West) is LEGAL, not so many any of the other issues.
      Because the divorce laws are so anti-man, the wife can use the THREAT of divorce to punish her man or control him. That makes the man’s position in the marriage weaker and makes the wife less attracted to him. It is a vicious cycle.
      The other legal issue is women can file a false criminal accusation against a man, anytime, on a whim. They often do this to intimidate their man/husband, and if married, use that to force man out of their shared home, which means she is almost guaranteed the house in the divorce. 😡 She can also allege the husband has sexually abused the children, to be certain of full child custody.
      And I am not even going into #MeToo-type hysteria, where a woman can even accuse her husband of spousal rape. Even TRump’s first wife Ivanna accused him of marital rape during divorce, to gain financial leverage. She later admitted it was BS during the 2016 Primary.
      Think of this abusive and unfair criminal and family legal system as a WEAPON for women to use against men.
      You go from husband to “hostage negotiator”, where husband is both one of hostages and a negotiator, always trying to keep the main hostage (the marriage) alive from the wife, who threatens to kill it anytime, and then turn the gun on the unarmed negotiator (the husband).
      It is insanity.
      I was married 12 years, was never a hostage negotiator, but I know MANY guys, some younger and others older then me who live in constant fear of wife filing for divorce. They are real life hostage negotiators. Their lives suck, needless to say. >_<

2. This is marriage as it is today, and what happened to me.

   View post on imgur.com

   1. 3. No, I never got tired of banging the same woman (for 30 years), I loved her.
      4. Sure, she got older and less attractive, but I didn’t care about that.
      In the end she behaved EXACTLY as the cartoon specified, banged the gardener, divorce raped me, didn’t EVER let me see our four children again. I was forced to leave the country with the small amount of assets I managed to grab and run.
      But I’m still the same dope I was before, married again to a woman half my age, more children. But this time my new wife has no claim on my remaining assets as I didn’t marry in the west, and I don’t live in the west. Only a complete idiot would marry a woman in the west under the current ‘asset asset seizure’ laws.

      1. I’m sorry for what happened to you.
         cause you accepted her request and you putted the ball in her field. so she felt entitled to runs you over. remember : if you give woman an inch she will take a mile.
         hope you learned your lesson mate.

         1. @ ThirdWorldMan,
            A cricket metaphor. When talking about marriage. The Indian in you is strong.

         2. asdasda
            Actually i was quoting Patrice O’neal…and I’m far away from Indians lol

      2. where did you move to that the government isn’t on a mission to destroy you?

         1. SEA

      3. This article makes the man sound like the bad actor. What must be underscored is the myth of ‘women are wonderful’ narrative because they are less monogamous than men (outside of the top-20 percent alpha aristocracy). WOMEN want the man to remain fuckable long after the vows and still be pursuing other women (or at least have the option of doing so through sheer hamster-wheel maintenance) to keep her ‘love’ trained on the correct target of a desirous man, as per SMV…because she WILL jump on the hypergamy train and board the cock-carousel, as the law/society incentivizes…or let herself become unfuckable as leverage.
         The urge to womanize lessens in most men when he finds a woman because the secondary characteristics of male attraction kick in. Monogamy is absolutely natural for 80 percent of the population – explosive birthrates in Amish and Mormon communities prove this. Even the Germanic ‘barbarians’ were more monogamous than the Christians as they were sacking Rome. A woman was once a man’s property – and men (white men at least) maintain and protect property as long as it yields fruit/value and won’t be infringed on (Magna Carta).
         But matrimony, as it stands now, is antithetical to monogamy/progeny, ironically, because women have captured the institution via Cultural Marxism, and have monopolized sexuality/birthrates, which have collapsed as a result, like everything else women rule over. What must happen is marriage must become a temporary contract like it was in Leninist Russia (That’s right, even the early Soviet Union was not as bad as the degenerate West with marriage: no debtor’s prison, alimony, ‘marital rape’ etc.). It must have opt-out provisions and sunset clauses that are centered around a woman’s fertility and the offspring’s independence because siring/rearing children is the only reason for marriage, and certainly has increasing returns if you have a family business. A woman must sign away her fertility to a man just as the man has wholly commoditized himself as an indentured-servant in this unnatural bigamist union of marriage (man + women + state).
         So as it stands now, out-of-wedlock children with a part-time girlfriend serves the same purpose as marriage, only it circumvents the inevitable pitfalls of government marriage that penalize the man with rental fees. At least child support would be a temporary investment to continuing your bloodline like family property overseas or rental property you visit a few times a year to maintain. A ‘blended’ family is an abomination, but has become the modus operandi of the ‘liberated’ woman in order to diversify her assets/cash flow. Never ‘save’ yourself for marriage because it is bound to end prematurely. You must maintain the skill of womanizing to maintain your SMV.

      4. John Dodds:
         I am glad you at least managed to escape before it was too late. I worked as Paralegal 6 years and when I met men who were going through a divorce, they seemed like wounded deer, begging the hunter for a final killshot to end their pain. The pain in their eyes was undeniable and obvious. They were in hell.
         I totally agree with you, after 12 years, I never got tired of my (now) late wife. She kept herself in prime shape for me, something I demanded and I also stayed in shape. I loved her, even if I married knowing I was a solid 8 and she was a 7 in appearance. She had numerous qualities that pushed her into 9 overall territory in quality.
         When a woman of QUALITY ages, she ages and retains a special beauty within her. Yes, go ahead, call me a Beta for saying this. 🙄 But it is true. We stayed together and overcame a lot of stuff in our lives and grew together. How many women do you know that would stay faithful and with you through thick and thin this day and age??? The first sign of trouble, most entitled, spoiled, Feminist women would pull the ripcord and bail.
         This is why modern marriage does not work. The lawyers and FemiNazis worked together to create a system where it is easy to married, easy to file for divorce, the woman and the lawyers profit massively from the divorce. The man gets screwed almost 100% of the time. It is an Indenture Servitude system, utilizing the Siberia-deportation threat (Kolkhoz-style) top enforce a corrupt Alimony and Child Support money-transfers that make the Soviet Union seem compassionate and fair. The lawyers instigate fights between couples (during and post divorce) and rake in tons of cash in attorney fees and costs. -_-
         I mentioned this before, but I was married 12 years (widowed now) and I made immeasurable progress having a supporting, and quality Christian wife (we got married age 23 and her notch count was 4). A wife like my late wife can help a man make incredible progress. She worked FT for a few years while I attended school FT and later she continued to work FT while I worked PT and school PT at night. We made great progress and honestly, I was truly happy. Would still be with her if I had it my way, but I have no say on the matter.
         The one difference with my late wife was that we both came from a generation that enjoyed dating and forming relationships in high school and college. We both came “flyover America”, from middle class families. Both raised southern Christian. The problem today would be finding a woman like that again.
         But even worse… if I found such a woman again, would I marry her? Nah…. 99.9999999% chance I would NOT marry her, regardless. The risk is just too great. I am going on 36 now, when I married back then I was 23. I am wiser and a little older… and I no longer believe in Marriage 2,0 in FemiNazi America. The risk-benefit calculation is obvious a “never marry” is the only answer.
         (Again, this pains me to say it as a Christian, but I am too logical to marry again. That is the effect of being a rational thinker… or red pilled man. Marrying this day and age is financial and freedom suicide.)

         1. “The one difference with my late wife”
            And that’s the difference between your marriage and my marriage. If mine had died after 12 years, my marriage would have been perfect. (She was a Christian virgin age 21, and I married her age 23, 30 years later cheating/lying/stealing). Times have changed and marriages rarely last, too many people WANT marriages to fail, so they always will if both partners live long enough..

         2. John, I wonder if you have something there. Maybe the “marriage for life” situation was created in early Biblical times for people living much shorter lifespans, with each generation loving shorter and shorter lives, until the advent of modern medicine and widespread use of sanitation in late 19th Century.
            If I had it my way, she would still be here, we would be starting a f,ally with kids now, just after age 35-37. I know that seems late for some, but I needed the time to become someone. We are middle class and I was not handed cash or a trust fund, so I needed time to build up my life. She wanted kids badly, but agreed to delay it, on my behest. I, on the other hand, did NOT trust… I used spermicidal lubricants and always condoms halfway through it. I never risked it… but she never trapped me and the few accidents we had, she took Plan “B” (which every man should have on hand at all times in his home!!!)!
            Why did yours just decide to cheat after 30 years married? Mid-life crisis? Read “Eat Pray Love”?
            See my wife KNEW she had a good deal marrying me, in the sense that she she knew if I wanted, I could have screwed around… I never did. She got that, so she worked hard to be THAT wife… stayed in shape, faithful, helped me build me up.
            The problem for me now is I am going on 36 and no kids. The house, the cool car, the cat, the comforts of life I have (not rich, but I live very well). But now I am single.
            I am really trying to figure out if I should even try to have a kid anymore or just date here and there and keep living for myself. ❓ Honestly, I do not know.
            I do NOT want to marry again because of the divorce rape situation. I am red pulled in that sense (actually, I have always been a realist-optimist, but you can call that red-pill, I guess).
            Then my only viable choices would be having a kid with an LTR girlfriend. I would have to move back to FL, because I moved to Colorado for Law School, but this is a “common law marriage” State, and no way I can have a live-in girlfriend here.
            For sometime after I became widowed, I thought “no kids now, just gonna ride this out and have fun”. But then my cousin (whom is very close to me), just had a son and he is happier then ever before. I never thought my cousin would either marry or have a kid and he married her after impregnating her, and he has never been happier with his son.
            That left me in doubt…. are kids REALLY all that is cracked up to be?? I mean, I do not wanna be one of these guys who is on his deathbed and regret not having a child to carry on my legacy.
            At the same time, is all the work and the headache of having to do it with an LTR-type woman a good idea???
            I trust Manosphere men more then I trust even my local church friends, because they want me to re-marry and they seem to have an endless supply of single women they know from somewhere in the 28-38 age range, that seems ready to marry. Of course, WHY did they not marry until now?? 🙄
            I am pretty happy being single now, I guess after 12 years, I can use the break and hook-up with some girls, which I have…. but now what?? Marriage is not in the cards, I worked too damn hard to marry some woman and have her take 1/2 my s#it. That would be an insult to my late wife’s sacrifices too.
            If you have any suggestions on the having a kid thing, I am all ears. I am trying to come to terms of the possibility of having a kid with an non-live in LTR girl, risk the child support nightmare, OR not having a kid at all.
            And then… how is that fair to my own kid to raise it between parents separate homes…?
            *sigh* :-/

         3. “Why did yours just decide to cheat after 30 years married? Mid-life crisis? Read “Eat Pray Love”?”
            I suspect menopause which permanently changes many women’s personalities (and never for the better). But I’ll never really know, she claimed she had cheated all our married life and none of the four children were biologically mine. Who can tell?

         4. As for the answer,
            My answer was to move to SEA, marry a Thai lady half my age, and have another son (now 6 years old). She has no rights to any of my money or assets (not that I have much left) with no alimony or child maintenance if we divorce. Been married to her nearly 10 years now.

         5. @ ChristianCool, Weatherford guard to your comment to John Dodds down below you talk about the happiness of having kids and you see that in your cousin with his son but I’m going to tell you something as a parent and a father to two kids as well. you can’t go into having kids with a half-ass notion or a half ass attitude because I don’t most guarantees that your kids will end up turning out like shit. you either have to be 100% the focus of your life or don’t do it. at the time that my ex-wife realize she was pregnant with my first child I made a conscious decision between being the non-existent dad sperm donor or 100% committed father. for me I chose the one hundred percent committed father and haven’t stopped being that person but it was a choice it was a very conscious choice and once I decided that I was going to set my feet on that path I stuck with it and never quit. you have to have a very big spot in your heart with a lot of love to give if you really want to have kids and be successful with them. my 2 cents FWIW. the came first before ALL others , even my ex wife, which she resented our entire marriage.

         6. John Dodds (JD):
            I do not buy the menopause argument. Menopause (and monthly periods and hormonal imbalances) sure do play a part, but it is not really that significant to be a cheater and destroy a marriage and family (with kids, worst of all).
            I think it is all an excuse that women use. I think we, as men, always seem to excuse female behavior. We as men take responsibilities unto ourselves, even when it is NOT our fault.
            We men have learned that women (and out FemiNazi society) raised men to “men up” and take responsibility for crap we are not at fault for. Thank God, most men now have the Red Pill knowledge and have stopped doing this. (I have never accepted blame for stuff, as I am a strong ESTP personality and I am overly rational and I am naturally inclined to “buck the system”).
            Why would your ex- claim she cheated during whole married life, other then to inflict pain? Sounds like retaliation (or an attempt to further emasculate and hurt you). Women are EXTREMELY vengeful and spiteful creatures. A DNA test can reveal whether the kids are yours or not. 😉 Not that it matters or that you should care, because it sounds like you have a whole new much better life in SEA. 😉
            I am glad you “escaped” to SEA. One strategy laywers I work with often tell their clients is to avoid being served with Court Summons (lawsuit or motion to appear before court). If you can dodge service of process (as required by US Constituiton), you can avoid a lot of problems. During a divorce or child support determination hearing (a “bench trial”, where the Emperor in Black Robes a/k/a/ the Family Law Judge makes deicision), you have to be served to appear in court. Dodge service and you can delay or almost completely avoid a lot of problems. 😀
            I am glad the Prenups in SEA work so well. That is NOT the case here in USA for sure. Do not get me wrong: if a man is hell bend on getting married in USA today (because of religion or because you are a foolish man), then YES, get a Prenup done by a divorce law specialist, for Christ’s sake!!! The Prenup is not foolproof, it only limits SOME of your losses in future divorce, but it CAN help you, even if just negotiating a settlement of the divorce with your soon-to-be ex-wife.
            (I am writing a “legal survival guide” for RoK which will hopefully be out next week, since I am swamped with tax filing deadlines this week!).
            Finally… the only reason to marry in 2018 Amerika/Western world is because of strong religious beliefs OR because the woman is rich and you are broke-ass. But how often does that happen, right?!? 🙄 LOL
            Ps. I am sorry for what happened to you. I am GLAD you out outta Dodge before she ruined your life completely…. women can be so damn evil… 🙄

         7. Neal ( @Deplorable Neil Jensen ):
            I appreciate ANY insight about having kids, thank you. 🙂 I am someone who just decides things in life with reason and logic, not with emotion. I do not go into half-cocked either, unless it a street race late at night in deserted roads. 😀 making logical planned decisions is why I managed to be married to a woman 12 year and not have kids with her…. I worked it out with her that logically, I wanted her to be stay-at-home mom (she wanted that too) and I would then work as attorney and could afford do it. Having a mom at home is best for kids. So we delayed it. Then she passed away and I do not have kids, but I have the set-up financially to have a kid if I wanted to now, right away.
            Trust me, I am not going to just knock up some woman (I am not even dating nay woman exclusively right now). I am gonna plan this out. This is why I am trying to figure out what to do about that one aspect of my life.
            I am someone who loves success. I would NOT ever have a child if I did not think I could raise them to be successful and happy, to hopefully have them surpass me someday (otherwise, what is the point?). I would refuse to be a sperm donor parent. I would evebn try to pay her for an abortion, since that is a real thing in America today. 🙁 I do not like abortions as a general matter, but to me, it would be hell on earth knowing I have a child that will grow up to be loser beta (or a whore daughter) because the mother of the child was crap and I could not be a part of the child’s life. :-/
            But now, I am going on 36 and being widowed, I have a brand new life that I can decide on, but at the same time, I also have a limited window to either have a child at some point in next 3-5 years or not at all. I do not want to go past 40-42 to have a kid, because I think it would be a lot more stress the older I get….. My problem is: Marriage 2.0.
            So Neil, were you married when she got pregnant??? Or did you marry your now ex- AFTER she got preggo?
            My problem is: I do NOT want to get married again!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The risk is too damn great for me, legally speaking. I grew up a middle class guy, Conservative Christian, father was military, and I lived for 6 years abroad. Our life was never “handed to me on a silver platter”. I am not some rich “trust fund kid” and the middle class life I have today was a result of hard work. My late wife and I worked HARD for what I have now and I have a great stable life today. Just having a cool convertible helps me nail at least 1 new girl a week… why would I risk losing my car for some woman, who can divorce and steal my stuff on the drop of a hat?? 😡
            But my problem is: Can I successfully have a kid with an LTR woman, even if I were to “commit to her”, but never marry??? I can move back to Florida, so I am out of this “common law marriage trap” State I am in now (only here for school)… but is this “have a kid with my LTR ” doable?? I do NOT wanna get married again. Too much financial risk and very very low rewards/benefits.
            (Side note: Short of sponsoring a foreign woman’s Green Card, I cannot see any logical or reasonable justification to marry. My Christian faith tells me to marry, BUT what we have here is Indenture Servitude, not marriage. It is designed to make men into slaves, not the heads of the household as Christian tradition requires, as wife uses divorce threat as a weapon!!!! ❗ God is probably shaking His head at this farce we have today in Western world, Marriage 2.0. I am NOT gonna marry again, I do not care what people say, that I am not a Christian, whatever… I know how I am.).
            My question remains: Can I raise a kid(s), if I am willing to fund the costs of the child(ren), care and even love my LTR woman, and raise successful child(ren) that way?? The LTR could live with me back home in FL, so no common law situation/scam. Anyone here in RoK Forum done that?? Any advice?? ❓ Or raising a successful child requires I marry child’s mother???
            Thanks for any advice.

   2. In the end, Tyrone Ahmed Mantlebaum is not to be seen inside the house or anywhere near it. Naturally.

3. Marriage in evoltutionary terms is as much a male adaptation as a female. A secure marriage ensures greater paternal certainty. With birth control the way it is you could bang hundreds of girls hundreds of times and never have a child. That’s not supported by evolution.

   1. commitment has clearly evolved into Europeans and you can go on about the behaviours such as mate guarding which suggest that but with Africans I would suggest they did not evolve that way. They have very large testes signalling competing sperm as is shown across all primates and therefore that they abandon children is just their natural genetic behaviour. Asians are the most genetically monogamous.

4. i thought he was going to be Devil’s Advocate against marriage but all he did was lay out the logical points as to why marriage is stupid to start with, it’s an unnatural forced State on the mail to be loyal and faithful to a woman who will never succumb to her biological hypergamy and then on top of that will ridicule you and attempt to criminalize you if you do not heed the unnatural demand to curb your natural biological instincts but when you play Devil’s Advocate you have to do it using ill logic and not logical consequences.

   1. UGH, that post I did look like hell (done from a phone).
      I thought he was going to be Devil’s Advocate against marriage but all he did was lay out the logical points as to why marriage is stupid to start with.
      It’s an unnatural forced state on the MALE to be loyal and faithful to a woman who WILL succumb to her natural biological hypergamy and then on top of that will ridicule you and attempt to criminalize you if you do not heed the unnatural demand to curb your natural biological instincts.
      When you play Devil’s Advocate you have to do it using ill logic and not logical consequences. The author did a shitty job playing the devils advocate, unless he is a SJW feminist.

      1. Deplorable,
         Not sure what your point is.
         The top articles that turned-up when searching “marriage” on RoK leaned pro-marriage. I argued the alternative position. Seems you agreed with the points I made.

5. As a married man I have no problem telling other people marriage is not for everybody. Marriage is for one big reason as a man, that is to have a family. If you never plan on having kids do not get married, having a perpetual room mate will for sure end with you both hating each other.

   1. I just had a friend who doesn’t want to have kids and he just got married….fucking retard.

      1. women know the divorce-rape deal so they will push you into marriage and then screw you over because of it. They understand both sides of the coin. Expect her to have pushed the man into it.

6. Sex with your wife (i.e. the same woman) will never get boring if you practice a little abstinence and don’t let the magic wear off within a couple years (or even months!) by always having sex.
   Yes, her attractiveness will diminish. Just don’t be a superficial prick.
   Just make sure you’re married to a woman who is committed to raising a healthy family.

   1. No, in my generation it is not wise to get married AT ALL. With the way the laws are, and with the family court system, marriage is a shit deal.

      1. Marriage can still be done and divorce rates amongst whites might be 40% and if you are a good man ie not cheating and have enough options and wisdom to pick wisely (ie check her parents have a good marriage as a women from divorced parents has like 60% greater divorce percentage) then you can, I am guessing, drop that down to like 20%.
         Some statistics on cohabitation suggest they break down like 90% in 2 years (I am not 100% sure i remember that exactly that statistic but it was fucking high)
         so you massively reduce your chances of breaking when married.
         In terms of unfair asset splits yes that is real and that is the problem.A women who is unemployed during the marriage is called a homemaker and gets special treatment for that but a man without a job is called a lazy no good and also gets a different kind of special treatment for that also. We know that women win 89% of custody battles with full custody in the USA and 96% of alimony. I divorced a rich woman and my lawyer said that had I been a woman in this situation I would expect a huge amount. That is just the way of the world sadly but still I think the equation for marriage makes sense for many men, but for the rich men marrying a poor women then no it doesn’t.

         1. Men have like a devils bargain where marriage is the only way you can be involved in raising your children since women own custody rights.
            We moved from traditional societies with mens and womens roles and advantages and we lost all of our roles and advantages around work and women kept their rights around the family on lock and have actually now more rights around the family than 100 years ago.
            Men have a raw deal in society and outside of the left controlled media we all know that. Many of us are forced to stay in marriages we don’t want just so we can be involved daily with our children as the courts are run to give everything to women.

         2. At James…you can live with a woman, fuck her, breed her, and all the other stuff WITHOUT MARRYING her. As the old saying goes, “the woman you divorce is not the woman you married”. If a woman is truly a good woman than she will show that to you by understanding the current situation and not demand that you marry her…if she leaves you just because you won’t sign your life away to her in a contract that BENEFITS ONLY HER than she was not worth marrying in the first place. Marriage without male authority is STUPID AND POINTLESS.

         3. Wes:
            That is NOT an ideal situation to live with a woman (demanding on your State laws – even countries like Brazil have common law marriage!!). be very careful here. In Leftist shitholes like Minnesota, even a live-in girlfriend can take control and have total possession of YOUR HOUSE, even if not married by failing a Domestic Violence charge against you with local cops. I know a guy here from Minnesota, he fled the State because his live-in cunt filed false DV charges against him and even though cops did NOT believe her, they forced him out of the home and she got an injunction (restraining order) against HIM. He had to have police do a stand-by with police for him to get his clothes from his own house (he was not even allowed to take his laptop or personal cell phone!!!!). 😡 He had to hire lawyer to get woman out, and took 4 months. After that hell was over, he sold house and fled to Florida.
            It is even worse to have kids with an LTR that cannot live in the same house as you, because of common law marriage scams (be careful, there are many States and countries that have “sneaky common law marriage” scams, such as Colorado)!!!! In Colorado, you can live together 1 day, and if she can produce 2+ witnesses saying you two introduce yourself as “husband and wife”, you are legally married!
            To me, the biggest problem I am having with having kids with a non-live-in LTR is that the kid will be bouncing from house to house, never having a man and woman living together, which is most beneficial for the child. 🙁
            It is a crap situation and I KNOW this because I am CURRENTLY trying to figure this out. I want to have a kid(s) and do not want to get married again (I am widower after 12 years married). This is NOT a good situation at all. But I am determined NOT to marry again, so I am beginning to lean towards risking child support if I cannot work it out with LTR girl and our child. *sigh*
            This is NOT an ideal situation, I can tell you this. Yes, if I have a kid with an LTR (live-in or not living-in together), she can sue me for child support. That limits the damage from a divorce, BUT some States are now increasing child support costs to the point, giving her 1/2 on a marriage will seem like a “good deal”. 😡
            James: You are totally right, this situation of marriage/non-married parenthood is a dance with the devil.
            This article is probably the best in describing the quandary we men find ourselves in:
            https://illimitablemen.com/2016/01/22/the-choice/
            Worth reading! The decision we men have to make is a hard one. It sucks to live in a FemiNazi shithole legal system country for sure.

7. Most men who get burned by a marriage are either betas or just go about doing it in the wrong way.
   1. Only get married if you desire children. If you do not want children don’t get married. End of disccusion
   2. Wait until your 30’s and you are established professionally and financially. Before even contemplating marriage have your finances and assets arrange properly, with some in cash or e-currency that is hard to trace.
   3. Only seek out women who are financially stable with controllable (or no debt) that have a solid job history of real employment. That young lass at the cosmetic counter might look like a nice one nice romp but if you marry her then six months in she will announce one day, probably without asking you, that she quit her job and is now a stay at home mom (even if there are no kids).
   4. Never marry a needy woman. To test her, before you contemplate marriage, find any reason to work or go out of state for a month. Tell her you have to or will lose your job etc. Then stay in minimal contact with her (sporadic emails, phone calls a few times a week, etc) See how she reacts. If she goes all crazy and possessive leave. If she is chill or even gets clingy when you return then you probably have a keeper. Point is you need to marry a woman that won’t become part of your life but will be there in your life.
   5. Get a pre-nup. In most states you can protect most of your pre-marital assets and avoid alimony with a properly worded, executed agreement.
   6. Keep the wedding a small, casual affair. If she gets a big wedding with all the female attention on her for a year plus then she is going to start getting the idea marriage is going to be the same deal.
   7. After you get married wake up the next morning and just start living your life like nothing ever happened. For men who complain “oh it changes after the ceremony” you know what really happened they let it change. You will have to make some accommodations like visiting her boring family once or twice a year and she will get used to the fact two nights a week you go out with the guys after work. But, make it clear that you are not her “live-in clown” to provide endless entertainment. She has her own life to live and let her do that.
   8. Infidelity. I don’t know why guys get all big on this one. Chances are, if you are married to your wife for most of your life, you will cheat on her three times the amount of times she does so. It is not the act of cheating, unless she is trying to cuck you, but more so if she is mate shopping. Women also KNOW that once they start losing their looks around 40 their man IS going to get a wondering eye. They hate it but know it is bound to happen. And if you do take some liberties, wrap that shit up, and don’t form any emotional connections. Also, don’t leave any evidence. Women know what you are up to and will tolerate it to a certain extent, but if you come home smelling like you just walked out of a brothel or the Jones down the street see you get a little to close to a younger woman that is where they start line drawing. Keep it classy, keep it out of town, and keep expenditures invisible. Don’t put random hotel rooms or questionable meals on a shared credit card. Pay in cash or with a pre-paid debit card. Just don’t make it obvious and he is already doing the same thing if she is slipping. And if you catch her don’t demand a divorce. Give her a good reaming and she will behave probably for the better part of a year. And if she catches you just say “it is done…mistakes were made…we will not have to speak about this again” then shut your pie hole. It might take her a few days to a few weeks to “forget” but unless you constantly bring it up she will do so.
   9. There are actually benefits to having a wife, believe it or not. A two income household is much more stable then a single income one. If you lose your job chances are you can float on her salary at least in the short term while you find permanent work instead of being forced to get the next available shitty job out there. Also women tend to keep their health longer then men do and once you get older having someone in the house to care for you certainly beats having to pay a third world “nurse” to show up a few times a day or go live with your Brother across the country. You will also probably drink/smoke less which is fine in your 20’s and 30’s, but once you hit your 40’s is harder to bounce back from on a Monday morning.
   That all said, marriage is not like it was back in the “golden days” when the man was king of his house. But, if you plan and execute it right the institution can still be a net positive on your life.

   1. Jeff, I think you’re spot on about an aging wife’s tolerance for infidelity, along with safe strategies. It’s a matter of not sticking it in her face or flaunting it. If she is never disgraced in public about it she will tolerate it (See Mr. Mafioso). Notice so many public figures whose wives only divorce them when the issue goes public. They knew it was happening all along but it only became intolerable when they were publicly humiliated.

   2. @Jeff…you can literally do ALL OF THAT STUFF without marriage. Marriage is just a contract that states this: “This woman now owns you” the end. “Chances are, if you are married to your wife for most of your life, you will cheat on her three times the amount of times she does so” That is total horseshit, get out of here with your dumbass made up bullshit. If you catch her “Give her a good reaming and she will behave probably for the better part of a year” ya, so that you can go to jail and get raped in the ass while she takes everything you own. Remember that Mexican guy who filmed his wife cheating and is now going to jail for 15 years? Dear god, you are fucking dumb Jeff? Go back to jerking off your other trad-con friends. BTW, they are even attacking pre-nups these days , and it also won’t let you get away with not giving the woman tons of cash every month in child support…so there is no reason to marry in the first place.

      1. Thanks for the intellectual schooling…going to go back to “jerking it”. Man rarely in life do you meet a genus like Wes the Great, I’m going to take tomorrow of work too and keep on jerking it. We should make that Wes guy a sage or something…

      2. Wes, you are completely fucking angry in every post you make, whether I happen to agree with it or not. Have a Fresca or get laid or something.

   3. Cognitive dissonance and denial of reality is strong in you. maybe in your parallel world what you say flies, but it categorically wrong in the current societal situation.90% wrong in outcome and 99% wrong concerning divorce court…But hey, knock yourself out with your comfortable fiction you built for yourself, just don’t sell it as a real product. Any man who falls for your pie in the sky vision deserves what he gets, and it won’t be a pleasant or good outcome.

   4. There’s another benefit: marriage visas, and eventual citizenship.
      If you’re both from the same country, this isn’t important. But if you want to bring your foreign girl to live in your country, or if you wish to solidify your legal standing in your foreign girl’s country, then a paper marriage is usually essential.
      In fact, that’s probably the only good reason for a legal marriage. Almost everything else can be done by mutual agreement.

      1. Anonymous:
         Yes, if you are importing a wife into USA, you will HAVE TO marry her. If you have an LTR that is illegally in USA (i.e. assume almost all Latin Americans and most SE Asians are illegally in USA) and she is at risk for Removal, you may have to marry her.
         Unless she is a professional and you can get her an H-1B visa, and then a Labor Certification, she will NOT be able to stay in (not even visit) the USA if you do not marry her.
         She can stay in USA illegally, BUT if she moves in with you, then she can screw you over by falsely criminally accusing you and then filing for her own Green Card using VAWA (a corrupt ShitLib law called “Violence Against Women Act” – also known as the “I falsely accused stupid live-in American man and then sue him for money” Act).
         Marrying outside USA, in HER country is often a horrific idea. Horrific. She can divorce you in HER country, where courts will be favorable to HER, then she can try to “domesticate a foreign divorce decree” in your State, which is the foreign equivalent of a “gool ole” American divorce rape. Big risk.
         This is a complicated area of the law, so check with USA attorney and an attorney in her own country.
         One scam I used to see all the time is HOT foreign girls that came to work in hotels or souvenir shops in seasonal places (i.e. Martha’s Vineyard, Destin, FL, etc) and get impregnated by an American (even a middle class one will do). Then she leaves to go back to her country (or if she likes, she can wait to birth child in US soil and get free healthcare under Medicaid and welfare and then leave). Then once in her country, she will get a court order for a DNA test. If you refuse, a local court in HER country will issue a “record of foreign birth” document for the child with YOUR name on it!!!!! ❗ Then she hires a Joe-Schmoe Family lawyer in USA, file request with your State’s Child Support office and let the State collect cash for her!!! 😮
         At that point, she can have the State put the cash they coerce out of you into an account and issue her one of these “prepaid Visa” type debit cards, which she can shop in her country at her leisure. You will be surprised how much $500 USD a month can buy her and her kid in Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, and etc.
         You never see your kid, but you get to pay for it.
         I almost did this at a ski resort back in 2003 and would have probably ruined my life. There was this smoking hot Polish housekeeper girl there and we fucked insanely like wild animals for days and I ran out of condoms one night and she said “cum inside, I am on the pill”. I DOUBT IT you cunning Polaska!
         My dick almost burst with desperation, as everything closes early in these small CO ski towns and I was desperate to fuck and did not have a condom. Desperate!! This was before Plan B pill was out…. I was on the Vitamin “S” back then and my test levels were insanely high, I could not sleep all night, no matter how many times I fapped. It was horrible. :-/
         But looking back, I am glad I did not cum in that girl. Man, what a huge bullet I dodged! 🙂
         Bottom line: Do NOT impregnate a foreign girls while in USA, especially if she is planning go back to her country. Do NOT marry outside USA unless you have solid legal advice from USA-side and foreign side!!!!
         YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

   5. Jeff, you are a foolish and delusional man.
      2. Wait to have all your assets in order so she can pop a couple of kids and take it all from you ……… why?
      3. They all quit their jobs, or cease seeking promotion, that’s the way they play you.
      5. Prenups are worthless, they are all easily broken.
      8. It’s the women who cheat, and if you try to stop them, divorce and house loss.
      9. Capable men don’t lose their jobs, her working just gives her more opportunity to cheat.
      Marriage in the west is worthless, just don’t do it, unless you’re unemployable and living on SS.

   6. Jeff:
      I agree with a lot of what you said, BUT…. you are talking about a financial merger with the wife. While that may be beneficial for a short while, SHE will tire of that arrangement much faster then you think.
      A wise man beyond his years once told me” you marry in your 20s, it is a marriage. You marry in your 30s, it is a merger”.
      The problem with that is that marry in your 30s as a financial arrangement is that your chance of divorce will be even higher. If you and she has resources, a divorce will EASILY surpass $100k in attorneys fees. Easily. The lawyers will instigate all sorts of fights and at $350/h, it will reach $50k – $60k in a matter of months. The fighting can continue well after final order of divorce is entered. I have seen divorce cases between “professional couples” reach $150k between both sides.
      Does that seem cheap to you?? -_-
      A Prenup CAN help, and men should get one anyway, BUT it is a false sense of security in so many ways. It can be dismissed as “unfair”, “unconscionable”, or “improperly executed” by Judge Rosie O’Donnell if she ate a bad breakfast burrito that morning. If you moved between States, the prenup may not be valid anymore, so keep that in mind as well.
      Finally, you are forgetting your live-in woman has a powerful wildcard up her sleeve: a false criminal accusation. It can be “marital rape” (this crime exists!), domestic violence, or “emotional abuse”. Try disproving any of these in Court. Yes, DIS-proving it (presumption of innocence is silly theory in female-male “he said, she said” cases). Most Beta Jurors still follow the Feminist “believe anything a woman says because women do not lie about this stuff”, so you will have to DIS-prove what she said.
      No matter what, the second your live-in GF or wife files a criminal report, you are enjoined from returning to YOUR house. Prenup or not, the false criminal accusation surpasses that. Research “VAWA” and “Duluth model of policing”. Oh, say goodbye to your guns too, even if charges are dismissed.
      Each day, I seem to be leaning more and more towards having a kid with a non-live-in LTR….. sucks, but I do not see any other way right now. She can even stay over many days a week, as long as she does not get her address change into my place, does not change her driver’s license address, and has a legal residence of her own. If she gets “legal resident” status in your house, wife, LTR, baby mamma… whatever she is… you, the man, are screwed. One criminal complaint or a divorce and you are gonna lose that house and most of what is inside. That is how this game is rigged.
      I love my country (USA), but I fuc#ing hate the divorce, criminal, and family laws in this country. I really do. 😡
      (Maybe I need to write an Article for RoK on my experiences dealing with criminal, immigration, and civil law over the years??)

8. Marry a woman who is smart and earns money like you do. That way you’re not working like a slave just to barely support her and your kids, and then she has skin in the game. My wife actually makes more than I do and I like it because I don’t feel like I have all the skin in the game. Also don’t have separate bank accounts and either plan on having kids or don’t bother marrying.

   1. Plus if her income is higher then yours that means you become eligible for alimony and a low child support payment if she ever wants to leave. Women knowing that money will come out of their pocket (which they HATE) keeps them acting umm…orderly.

      1. That is not true about eligibility for alimony. I divorced a women who was top earning lawyer, went to Harvard law school and was on the faculty there for a while. I did not get hardly anything. Don’t fool yourself that a court will give you shit. The woman gets custody by virtue of being a female and then once she gets the children the question is how much of your shit she gets from you.
         Her false allegations are told as though butter wouldn’t melt in her mouth. They will make a big difference. She seems to get believed with her incredulous allegations. Don’t think she will not make them because she will make them.

         1. Best scenario is you pay nothing. 96% of alimony payments are from men. Women are surely not earning less that many more cases? I know guys who have been left homeless by divorce courts after their chronically lazy wives pretended to be home makers and then faked abuse allegations.

         2. I could not even believe how stacked against me the courts were and after escaping without loss. I should have been made wealthy had it been the other way around. I have seen how stacked the courts are. These cases are exercises in gender redistribution of shit and nothing else. I will be very unlikely to ever marry again even if she is rich. Richer women rarely marry anyway because women these days are often marrying because of divorce-rape options so when they are dried up they do not bother.

         3. You married and divorced a lawyer…..DUH. Of course it didn’t work in your situation.

         4. Yes it was an error but at least she got none of my shit where had she been a housewife I would have been cleaned out so even though the system was unfair at least I did didn’t lose anything.

      2. Jeff:
         You can only get Alimony from a higher earning wife IF you live in a very Progressive (leftist) State in America. I know NY and NJ are doing “Alimony for men”, MA has flirted with it, and CA will only do Alimony for men if the man comes out as gay during marriage OR wife is insanely rich.
         The only feasible way a man can get Alimony is if he has no job for more then 2-3 years, and then go see a Therapist BEFORE divorce filings. The man tells the Therapist/psychologist that he is depressed and unable to work. She can later be subpoenaed to testify in you Divorce about your “inability to work”. But that will be a lot of planning to make it happen, not have a job for years, etc.
         As a man, you should NEVER expect fair treatment from divorce proceedings. You should not expect the 14th Amendment’s “equal protection” will apply to you, because the Family courts are designed, created, and controlled by forces set up to destroy and punish men. It is a way for women to control the man, and if man upsets her too much, she divorce rapes him. Get it?
         It sucks, but I am being real here, from a legal prospective (Paralegal for 6 years and 1st year Law Student). I cannot give you leave advice, but you catch my drift.

   2. You’re leaving something out of your ‘storybook’ ending and you know it. What is the equilibrium here? Age, weight, beauty (or lack thereof), mileage? There is some MAJOR tradeoff that provided you with such leverage in the ‘modern’ marriage. My guess is your marriage to her is her second go-around… at least. If she is a ‘working girl,’ that means she is overweight guaranteed. If she makes good money, that means she is established, which takes TIME…something that is invaluable to women. Am I getting closer? Either way, you trad-cons run out of real estate in the bridge to nowhere you’re selling the moment you start to shill for the continuation matriarchy. And no, ‘love’ is not a valid answer, pal.

   3. I don’t know many women that respect men that earn less than them.

9. You can play Hugh Hefner if you are Hugh Hefner. Bachelor lifestyle and the banging that goes with it is nice if you have enough resources.. many guys won’t. The majority of us are won’t become millionaires.
   Bachelor life do have a cost : sexual solitud aka, frustration. Growing up, your bed “candidates” set will get smaller as fewer women would be interested in having a relationship with a 55 years old engineer with “normal” resources.

   1. Even Hef married and had a child. Good thing, too, as his daughter took the helm of the Playboy ship right before her dad was about to run it aground.

   2. This seems to be how Roosh has been feeling of late!

   3. randomguy,
      Not in your home country, but in the 3rd world women in their 20s and early 30s will be fighting each other to move in with you. I doubt if I’ve been in bed alone for more than 30 nights for the ten years I’ve been out here and they’ve all been 7+.

      1. John Dodds, that implies living in a 3rd world country with the income of your home country ( not a local salary ), in this case, a retired person or an expat in a very high paid field ( foreign contract ) will have success.
         again, it’s about having a huge gap or resources.

10. Been married for 38 years. Had great sex for probably 18 or 19 of those years. Wife is traditional-values girl, and I really like doing things with her. Lately, banging her isn’t on the list, but that’s because of a serious physical injury I sustained that put my T-level in the sub-basement.
    One HAS to be alpha in the marriage, and still take precautions against getting divorce-raped. She gets pregnant? Make damned sure she doesn’t go to an OB who thinks her putting on 50 lbs (22 kg) of pregnancy weight is ‘normal’; much of that won’t come off and she’ll be less attractive after.
    One thing to keep it interesting – do ‘date nights’ where you meet up at a bar or club or something, and you go through the ‘meet, eye contact, seduce’ game, but do it differently each time. Demonstrate that you’re still alpha, and if other girl display interest, flirt. It really ratchets up her interest because she see you’re still a catch and other girls are interested. Best married sex I’ve had is when other girls display interest in me and wife sees it.
    IMHO, the best thing would be to have one or more mistresses on the side; in this, I think the West’s concept of pure monogamy for the man is flawed. Competition for your attention will keep a woman in line. But divorce rape is still a possibility, and the courts are so stacked in her favor that I can’t honestly tell any younger man to get married anymore. If I were in their shoes, I wouldn’t.

11. They also often don’t keep up with you. When I was married, after a few years, my career started to take off, and I started to make serious money, which meant spending time with a different kind of people — smarter, more ambitious, with more money, and more demanding. My now-ex-wife could not handle that. It intimidated the shit out of her, which helped end the marriage. It’s one thing to hang around with the people you grew up with, it’s a whole different ball game when your new friends are Silicon Valley executives with degrees from Stanford who are also triathletes. The bar is a lot higher, and when the wife can’t keep up, that’s that. I have seen many men who are seriously high achievers saddled with wives who are kind of an embarrassment. Outcome — either suck it up, or goodbye marriage.

12. 50% of marriages fail, and 2 out of 3 divorces are initiated by the woman.
    What sane man would start a business that has a 50 50 chance of failing, after which someone else get to keep half of your stuff?

    1. Assuming 2 of 3 divorces are initiated by women, how many of those are because the man did some stupid, immature, loser shit that caused the woman to throw in the towel–not just because the woman decides she’s bored or succumbs to “hypergamy”, whatever the hell that is?

       1. Google lesbian “divorce” rates and you will see that they are 2.5 times higher than gay divorce rates in some countries. They are far far higher in literally every single country. I think that really is strong evidence that women are not that great as partners.

          1. “Gay” men are naturally promiscuous. What a normal married couple would consider infidelity is accepted SOP in the buttdart community.

       2. Found the (((matriarch)))

          1. Yup. I’m some fat, matzo ball slinging (((Yiddische))) mamma with her hair in a bun. Just like Kyle’s mom on South Park.

13. And on another episode the ROK-ers would complain that the white race was dying out.
    Go figure…
    The lack of any ideological consistency is the reason why this site is also dying.

    1. If it is dying it is because the enemy have banned all monetization! They could take a full-time staff if they could monetize the traffic properly.

14. It’s encouraging to see that those of us who are married are still reasonably happy, and aren’t overwhelmed by the vast majority of negative comments. I felt that ROK’s was based upon a public venue to “build the better man”. Not some Little Rascals “He-Man Woman Haters Club”.
    21th Century women, by and large, may not be anyone’s idea of perfection. But the vast majority of younger guys are no prize, either. I see beautiful girls everywhere attached to these seemingly immature dickbags dressed like 11-year olds, overweight, loud, course and under employed. What I see is girls who “settle” because that’s all they have to choose from.
    But a monogamous relationship isn’t 50 / 50. It’s 100 / 100. It ain’t perfect, it’s a dance you learn as you go, provides you both with an intimate helpmate that helps civilize and ground the male instincts to formulate and perpetuate civilized societies- and helps you live longer. (To raise better men.) And kids? Unless you’ve ever had your own child look up, smile and giggle, your life and all those other personal “victories” are meaningless.
    Many of Adam’s points above are quite correct, and I salute him for them. And, yes, someone needs to be “the Man” in the relationship at all times. Any cat worth his weight understands this. And can she be insane at times? Of course. But remember she’s snuggling up to some pudgy, inconsiderate hairy ass every night, you best cut that woman some slack. That legend in your own mind will grow old and saggy someday, too.
    Oh, sure, you can play the field- but not forever. If you’ll excuse the analogy, a dude can screw a new woman every night over a life time. Yet a truly righteous, balanced and grounded guy can keep the same woman satisfied for their life times. And have kids, grandkids, and reasonably sane golden years where you can cut loose, rediscover yourselves and not die alone and bitter.
    My dad put it best when my own mother was going through menopause and making everyone crazy. He says, “Ya know, when I met your mother we were kids. It was crazy and new and exciting and we had each other. And then jobs come along, and bills come along, and kids come along and life comes along. But bills get easier, life settles in, kids grow up and move away. And then it’s just me and her again. And although you’re not the same people at the end of that trip, all you can pray for is that you still like each other.”
    It’s never easy, but if it was, what would be the point of putting an effort into something so rare and precious unless you loved that woman madly? And she did for you?

    1. Your dad’s story is the death of an old lifestyle. My moms been divorced 3 times, and accused everybody of bullshit abuse. My sister even cheated on her husband. And this was a christian family from ohio.
       It’s over

       1. David:
          Incentives matter, that is why women lie routinely and are even advised by lawyers to do so. The woman gets MASSIVE benefits by laying during a divorce proceeding. She gets the house by lying and falsely accusing the man of abusing the kids or falsely making DV allegations against the man.
          When we took Family Law I, they had stats and in some States, almost 50% of divorces claim some sort of criminal behavior by husband (whether or not true).
          Cheating on your spouse means NOTHING under “no fault” divorce laws. Why do you think these laws spread like wildfire? CA Gov Reagan signed the nation’s first “no fault divorce” into law because he (foolishly) thought it would weaken the power of Lawyers lobby and would lessen cost of divorce. But the FemiNazis and lawyers simply re-made every part of Family Law courts to benefit women only. They stacked courts with leftist judges that always favor the woman. They created public narratives that “women get cheated” during divorce using Oprah and her cohorts.
          The “no fault divorce” system is so perverse, it is almost designed to mentally damage men. Imagine you get cucked, your wife physically abuses her own kids, she is an alcoholic, and then she accuses you of malfeasance and you lose your primary home, 1/2 your cash assets, 1/2 retirement, 1/2 everything. The men now live under threat of jail and fear of living because he has to pay insanely high child support. It is designed to make the men go crazy.
          The system is NOW set-up now in a way, that marriage has become an untenable proposition for men. Short of marrying a woman who is rich or makes insane amounts of cash, or marrying a foreigner for legalization for her, it is a fool’s errand. It is a one-sided contract enforced by a judge with the mindset of Hillary Clinton or Rosie O’Donnell. It is crazy, man.

15. Listen to all these married idiots write a hundred page thesis on what it takes to not get divorce raped trying to rationalize them being cucked. Men can do all the same things you do without being married, including buying a home have kids etc. Why mix family with assets unless it’s on your own terms?

    1. You are right Nick. You can do all of this without marriage and you should.
       The main reason to marry is when you have been with the woman for many years and you have kids (plural) with her and now you feel it is time to give her some comfort and security BECAUSE SHE HAS EARNED IT.
       Not upfront; thats stupid.

16. Oh man this article is so depressing cause it is true. What to do?
    Only get these type of brutal-truth articles on ROK …

17. Point 1 – if left to our instincts we would fuck multiple women and spread our seed. Monogamy = woman wins, man loses.
    This is a site for men to fight back against cultural marxism and the emasculation of men right? It would make no sense then to fuck multiple women leaving Fatherless kids all over the place. Fatherless boys especially have higher cortisol levels and lower testosterone levels than kids who live with their Father. If you want to raise a strong son you need to give him every advantage. This is probably a big reason for the fall in average testosterone levels for men each generation.
    Then there’s the fact that most women are gullible as fuck. They’re so easily influenced by our feminist mainstream culture and especially I notice in girls my age all of the gender-neutral nonsense. If you leave they’ll more than likely raise your son to be a soyboy. If you want to instill your values into your sons especially you have to be there.
    Point 2 – you might feel played
    Maybe, that depends on whether you’re a good match with your wife. What you’re describing here tends to happen more to “beta” males. When a woman marries a guy she’s not as sexually attracted to as she would an “alpha”, of course she’s marrying for the stability that a dependable nice guy can offer. She’s having sex in exhange for resources, not because she enjoys it with him. Of course once she has him hooked the sex will drop, she isn’t really that attracted to him. However, if you’re not a beta weakling and your dick game is strong, this isn’t gonna happen.
    Point 3 – you’ll get bored of banging the same girl
    That might be true. I had decent success before settling down 5 years ago and I haven’t reached that point yet, but we’ll see. However, as I described in point 1 this idea that we’re supposed to bang as many girls as possible and spread our genes doesn’t really make much sense especially today.
    There’s also the idea of r/K selection. r-selected animals breed like rabbits (rabbits are r-selected). They breed with mulitiple partners, put minimal input into their offspring usually because they don’t need to. They’re usually herbivores, the children mature quickly and they can find food anywhere, so they don’t need to teach their children anything. They tend to be less intelligent and they tend to be prey animals.
    Then we have K-selected animals like wolves. They aren’t strictly monogamous but they do often form lifelong pair bonds. They have to learn how to hunt and survive, they take longer to mature, their food is scarce, they’re more intelligent, they’re predators.
    When you look at humans you’ll see the same pattern. Which would you prefer your offspring to be? Predator or prey?
    I know that many including you yoursef might say “well I divorced and my kids did fine”. Statistically they’re exceptions to the rule.
    Point 4 – her sexual attractiveness diminishes
    That’s obviously true. There’s a lot more to it than just fucking though, as I mentioned above.

18. As a landlord, I need renters. I encourage everyone to stay single. Trust me, you will be much happier if you do not pool resources with anyone, that broad is going to steal everything from you. And supporting kids takes a lot of money, too. At most, live in an apartment with your girlfriend. I encourage you to rent your whole life. Oh, and please work a fairly well paying job, but make sure to have just an OK credit rating. Wouldn’t want you to get any thoughts of home ownership. No one needs attachments nowadays!
    HAHAHAHAHA

    1. Vader, renting forever is a terrible idea if you want to build equity and leave inheritance for your kids. Real Estate prices tend to grow, even if slowly, over the years. land becomes more valuable, etc. You also miss on mortgage interest deduction on your income taxes and you miss on “Homestead Protection”.
       Ever notice how OJ Simpson still has an expensive mansion in FL, despite having millions in civil court judgments against him from Nicole and Ron’s families?? That is because, in “Homestead Protection” states (FL, WY, TX…), your primary residence is 100% protected against civil court judgments against you. 🙂 The only ways to lose the property in a “Homestead protection” State is NOT to pay income taxes (IRS), or not paying property taxes for 3+ years, or a mechanics liens (not paying contractor who does work for you).
       But if a scumbag and his lawyer sue you, and your primary residence (owned home, cannot be rental) is in FL, for example, they can attach a lien to deed (which means, you cannot sell without paying them), BUT as long as you live there, it is protected from the court judgment. They cannot take your home.
       Just a thought. 😉

19. Married 24 years and you raise some good points… you must be very young. First, yes we all want to bang all the hot chicks when we’re single but “spreading our footprint”? No man wants a bunch of kids that aren’t his nor does he want some other person, even mom, raising his without him. Second, your sex/fun life will be what you lead it to be. I rarely have sex less than 3 X per week. It is ALWAYS good because she has me mapped out to perfection. Blow her mind and she’ll blow you. Also, attitude. If you do chores because you want your wife to have sex with you, she will dry up like the Sahara. If you do chores because you’re the man and it needs to get done, you will drown in her wetness. Third, Yes, you will think of banging other women, but you’re a man and, as such, not irrational. You know the grass isn’t greener. Bored? You must not be very good at sex;) Lastly, yes she will age and she will lose some of her tightness. If you married her young, led her to be a good wife and mother and continue to bang her likes it’s both of yours last time… her value will be far greater to you than what’s between any woman’s legs.

20. The ONLY reason to get married is if you want children. It doesn’t benefit you but it does benefit your kids. Marriage is your sacrifice not to the woman but your children and legacy.

21. We could fix this if we stopped focusing on individual hedonism (game) and focused all of our efforts, together, to take this over and set it right. If that were done, they would not have the legal and cultural template enabling their bad behavior. Under a good system, you can divorce (if it’s allowed), but not divorce rape.

    1. bullshit you can’t fix this societal problem because there’s absolutely no incentive that is greater than the ones that they already have to continue the same relationshit choices that they make now, because they’re completely 100 percent rewarded for it all across the board, regardless of the damage they do to their families, all to satisfy their feelings and desires. the only way to fix it is to completely overhaul societal values, and that categorically is not going to happen. women will never sacrifice the money incentives that they have right now in order to break a marriage then to keep a marriage.

    2. False choice. You can work to fix the marriage laws and understand female psychology (game) at the same time.

    3. JJ:
       This has been my point for sometime now. https://fabiusmaximus.com is actually doing a workshop discussion where we discuss SOLUTIONS, not just state the problems.
       The problem is that we men, are naturally individualistic. That is a good thing, except when we need to organize and fight against a system created to destroy and enslaves us!
       Women, they are all marching single line, forming columns and firing all at the same direction, in coordination and agreement at men. Men, we often form “circular firing squad” on fellow men who are simply trying to help other men is unhelpful and unproductive.
       We need to create a list of coherent, realistic, and comprehensive proposals that we all can rally behind. These need to be turned into legislative initiatives and men need to create mailing lists that we can activate and unleash on Tweeter, letters/calls/e-mails to Congress (or State Legislators), and others to promote legislative changes.
       We must also craft our message NOT to seem confrontational against our TRUE enemy, western FemiNazism, because our spineless Paul Ryan-types are scaredy cats and pathetic Betas. You need to serve our demands to them in clean, simple, non-confrontational ways, so we can achieve success.
       The ends are too important to want to be radical about it. If nicely fails, we can up the ante, but we need to be smart about this.
       For example:
       *All straight masculine males in Western countries (100% of us, no doubt) can agree that divorce rape is huge problem. It is destroying marriage as institution and destabilizing families and hurting kids and men, primarily.
       *We organize a push using online methods, to activate tens of thousands of men to contact our legislators at same time, creating a Tsunami of pressure to effect some legislative change. The NRA and GOA (Gun Owners of America) have done this successfully with postcards sent to members (easy to send out) and through action calls that set off phone calls and e-mails to their legislators.
       *There is no need to go out on streets and march. We need to work COVERTLY, pushing legislation we want and working with one or two sympathetic legislators quietly. It is easier to pass pro-men legislation quietly then with media alerting the left of our moves with a street march. 🙂
       *We craft legislation that SOUNDS GOOD. Obamacare (the hell our health insurance system has become) is called “Affordable Care Act”. Why would anyone want to repeal something “affordable”. Word games work!
       *So in regards to divorce rape, we push for the “Marriage Restoration Act” or “Keeping Families Together Act” . Why would anyone oppose that? 😉
       *The legislation must be plain and simple, direct, and address a core problem. It could be restricting “discretion” of Family Courts. It could be making it unlawful for a divorce court to award more then 50% of jointly owned property to a spouse. It could be making Prenups impossible to dismiss by Judge. It could be ending “no fault divorce”, so the spouse at fault (cheats, steals, abuses kids with evidence, etc) lose big on divorce. That is how it used to be before no-fault divorce hell!
       This is not rocket science and we masculine men can do this too! We see how the Left has used Tweeter to do boycotts and even ruin lives of men online with false rape accusations.
       But iot would require we men discuss SOLUTIONS and not simply state problems.
       How about we set-up a RoK article called “Masculine Solutions” (or maybe “Men of Action”) and we do it in 3 parts:
       Part 1: Men state grievances they want fixed from our legal system only (things that can be fixed legislatively);
       Part 2: Men state solutions/proposals to problems from Part 1;
       Part 3: We create a comprehensive list of actual legislation to effect the changes we want and need in our country?
       Thoughts???
       Chris

22. My friend and colleague (in CBP) is a hard charging veteran, great dad to two kids under 5, good looking – all round awesome dude who stayed in shape.
    Together with his wife for 12 years. Totally in love with her.
    We got deployed and she emails him saying she isn’t “feeling it”. A woman with kids aged 2 and 5..
    Standard story.. 35, she has gone back to work, has divorced gfs (misery loves company), is “talking to some guy – BUT not done anything yet” (yeah sureee)
    Before he can process, or have a conversation with her, she is making exit plans of living with her divorced gf. He consequently and sadly lost frame. Broke down. Cemented if not expedited process.
    Family in ruins. Financial destruction. All for her “feelings”.
    At 35.. she might get a couple years on the carousel before her wtf introspective moment at what she has done to a family and damn legend of a guy.
    Dude asked her about having her kids growing up only knowing a broken family. She all but shrugged her shoulders.
    ——–
    Even as a divorced rape guy myself, I was somewhat amazed at what they had together. Till the house of cards came down.
    Gave my man the essential red pill books, blogs to read (hesitantly – as you know how that can go) which he took better than expected. At least I know he wont hang himself as he sees the pattern and light at end of tunnel.
    Aside from the nihilistic, narcissistic, short term goal focused nature of women of all ages.. We, my friends; live in times where the paradigm has shifted. Where societally, emotionally, financially and judicially you are playing russian roulette.
    Win – you have kids and a form of nuclear family stability
    Lose – your life goes up in flame$, your kids have to deal with consequences and the woman will never have the introspection to even say: I f’d up.
    Life is all choices. Choose wisely.

    1. 20 years after my parents’ custody battle, my mom is still making up horrible lies of abuse from my dad and me (lol) that never happned. My sisters don’t speak to eachother or any of us. No one speaks to my mom. It’s just me and my dad. So he lost 2 daughters, his house, half of all his assets and money because she wanted to show everyone she was boss.

       1. David,
          Ten years after my divorce the former wife is still telling anyone that will listen horrible lies of abuse from #metoo. It’s a game divorced women never tire of. Your dad is lucky you remained loyal to him, my three worthless sons nixed me in an instant. I got the same deal as your dad.

23. We can argue about this all day. Our lord and savior Neil Strauss (aka Style) wrote a second book called The Truth: An uncomfortable book about relationships. He broke up with his famous gf and went back to the player life to the extreme including harems and open relationships. He concluded monogamy doesn’t work (for men), that more girls=more problems, but ultimately, THERE IS NOTHING BETTER THAN MARRIAGE.
    He did a nice short-video on it for Business Insider.

24. This “spread the seed” is overrated. It is true but people always deny other tactics.
    Animal’s babies can walk, run, communite with mom after they leave the womb. Human babies can suck, breath, cry and shit. Thats all. No movement, no immunesystem but a lot of shit. Mom needs to give a lot of milk, she needs help. Thats where man comes in and protect his of springs future. He provides. If men did not provided for women, humans would not exist. Hypergamy is her imperative and providing is part of hypergamy. But not providing will extint you so providing for children is your imperative too.
    You accept polygamy but turn a blind eye to: love, cuteness of babies to man(fatherhood), beta instincts, jealousness, mate guarding etc. They are in us too like polygamy. They are not as perfect as polygamy but they work too if plan A fails.
    “Marriage”(staying with women and looking after kids for some time) is not unnatural. It may not last untill death but it is a human instinct.
    Those wolf who did not share food with each other in north died but those who do team work survived. At this example you can see not being selfish can boost your evolutionary succes too.
    Best deal between genders: you provide, she wont cheat. Man’s adultery wont hurt her.
    Best deal in society: you provide, boht of you dont cheat. Banning man’s adultery decreases wife’s cheat even more.
    Comclusion: dont be 1 dimemtional. Polygamy and hypergams are not only tactics.

    1. SOME mammal babies (most of which are hooved animals) can walk, run, communite [sic] with mom after they leave the womb. All the rest are pretty damned helpless, some even more so than baby humans (carnivores, most rodents, rabbits, marsupials etc.). All of them have immune systems or they wouldn’t last a week. But you don’t explain what this “hypergamy” business is. You see that word tossed around a lot on RoK, but it’s hardly ever explained.

       1. Hypergamy is a woman seeking the highest value men possible to give herself a comfortable/secure life, while providing her children with best genes and chances for success and survival.
          It is basically a female survival mechanism. BEFORE marriage, hypergamy is OK. The problem is that women continue the Hypermaous process AFTER marriage. Marriage used to be the cutoff point, where women had to choose her best mate possible and settle down and have kids with him, and be the end of it. Now married women want to monkey-branch from married man to other men, using their Hypermaous instinct. That is the problem.
          Crash course on Hypergamy: https://therationalmale.com/2014/08/07/open-hypergamy/
          Hope this helps! 🙂

25. Men never settle down, men submit.

26. Your wholesale rejection of marriage and obsession with sex as the highest good in life is a sure sign of degeneracy. You’re the product of the very same hedonistic society that has corrupted our women. You’re just the flip side of the coin. Yes, you degenerate playboys are just as much part of the problem. All you will ever produce are bastards, though most likely you won’t ever have any offspring. And you think you’re alpha, LOL.
    If all you want in life is get laid as much as possible, by all means fuck around with those Western bitches you’re always whining about. But leave marriage out of it. True men who want to defend and revive the patriarchy, take back our nations and culture, should be fighting the subversion of marriage and women. Real men seek to conquer their vices and natural urges rather than to be enslaved by them. Love, self-sacrifice and loyalty to a woman are somehow beta now. I’m sure your ancestors would LOL and look at you as a wanker.
    You are doing nothing but furthering the subversion of Western society with your pathetic arguments against the very bedrock of civilization. A slave to the matriarchy is what you are – worshiping the Holy Vagina in saecula saeculorum, amen.
    Take your bullshit anti-marriage propaganda elsewhere.

    1. Gold Rush,
       “You are doing nothing but furthering the subversion of Western society with your pathetic arguments against the very bedrock of civilization.”
       It’s already gone, clinging onto a system that doesn’t work won’t help anyone.
       Marriage and Christianity has finished western civilization as we knew it.
       Under Sharia Law, and in other places outside the western world, where women get noting from divorce (No child custody and no asset transfer) …… none of them get divorced. What a surprise.

       1. Yeah, so Abdool can beat his old lady like a drum, tire of her, say “I divorce you” 3 times, she’s left with nothing, and then he runs off and marries young hot Fatima scot free. Not saying the current situation in the West is good (it’s not), but that hardly seems the right answer either. Unless your a Muzzie yourself, then it’s the cat’s ass.

          1. Abdool doesn’t divorce his wife though, he just adds another. Divorce is very rare with Muslims.

    2. Marriage has been subverted. It happened about 45 years ago.
       You don’t fight the subversion by joining it. You have to transform it.
       Marriage is only holy if the rules and customs governing it in practice are holy.
       They are not. And a men’s cite should tell men this basic truth.

    3. Gold Rush, I agree with you to an extent. I am Christian and I care deeply about Western society as a whole.
       I am also going on 36 years old and I am widower and I would love to get married again and have kids, but I CANNOT re-marry. I am trying to figure out having kids without marrying.
       The risk of a marriage today is simply too great FOR THE MAN. The woman is fully protected. The woman can simply divorce rape me at anytime, even with a Prenuptial Agreement. I would become her slave even if she cheats, if she becomes an alcoholic and drug addict, even if she abuses our kids. The laws are designed this way, to hurt and enslave men.
       In Law School, we had this Professor who said “in America today, men have all the duties and obligations and women have all the rights and privileges”. He is 100% right!
       I simply cannot re-marry for this reason. Divorce Rape of men is a real thing. Men are avoiding marriage for a very real and valid reason (not because they are lazy; they are not being treated fairly). It is a terrible legal deal for a man in Western world. The man ALWAYS LOSES in divorce court, always lose in child custody battles, and always go to jail if woman falsely accuses him of a crime for purpose of stealing his residence.
       
       Not only that, the women you will get are going to be so used up, it is like you are marrying a prostitute who has been banged by hundreds of different men. There is not much value left in a woman after about 25-30 age range that has ridden the cock carousel for so many years.
       https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/11/24/more-grim-news-for-carousellers-hoping-to-jump-at-the-last-minute/
       This is the problem. To save marriage in Western world and end the current degeneracy, we must:
       1) Fix marriage and divorce laws, end abuse of men in family court (divorce/child support/custody) and criminal courts;
       2) Change the culture, so women will marry men in their prime (18-24 years old), to limit cock carousel riding.
       Otherwise, the men bare all the risks and get none of the benefits/protections from marriage. As a Christian, I agree, marriage is important. But what we have now is Marriage 2.0, a fraud, far from Biblical marriage.
       This is why we have movements like Red Pill, MRA (Men’s Rights Activists), and MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way). It is for a valid reason. Men in America are treated like 3rd class citizens; husbands and fathers are Indenture servants of the wife and the courts.
       That is why I refuse to get married again. I refuse to be held hostage by a woman. Period.

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    1. Neat. I’m going to sign him up for all the spam in the world.

       1. Yeah I was just thinking this sounds like a guy that needs a lot of free stuff. A LOT OF FREE TRIPS TO CANCUN IF ONLY YOU WILL TAKE THIS AMAZON SURVEY. Thanks, man.

28. In the biological sense, you are not an alpha until you have exclusive, or near-exclusive breeding rights with nearly all the female in your inner circle.
    Note that this says breeding, not mutual masturbation. It’s not sex until DNA has been exchanged and offspring have been born. You can fuck 10,000 women every minute of every day up and down the walls to the tune of “We are the Champions” and “Blaze of Glory” and you are not a true alpha until you’ve bred. You can have 20,000 orgasms a second until your penile glans looks like Hamburger Hill with ketchup and you are not an alpha.
    You can walk around with your 52″ pecs out, staring other males down, pushing them out of the way, laughing at soy boys, laughing at chicks trying to fly airplanes, laughing at the size of the 90″ trout you caught, laughing, laughing, until your dick falls off due to Russian radioactives left in your drink, and you are not an alpha the way God intended.
    That fat dude with 6 kids who makes 10k a year and lives in a trailer has just outbred you, and at least in the sense that biologists have determined wolves work, he is the alpha. At least, the adults next generation will be enjoying his genes just as Walmart will be enjoying the fruits of their wages.
    Good luck, it’s a brutal and unforgiving world out there blokes.

    1. i laughed hard at your post. the irony of your example is awesome and 100 percent true. well said.

    2. If you’re breeding litters to work at Walmart and the like then you and your kin are basically being farmed like an animal.

29. Most men just really want to pass on their genes. And they simply cannot spread their resources too thin here and there. Hence, rabbit hole it is.
    Some other men think they have bigger purpose in life, so rather spend too much time and energy too much on complicated things (wimmin IS complication). They settle with one is already too many.
    The rest, please conquer the wimmins. We don’t mind, just leave one or two for us will you…

30. I could write a similar article on the pain of the discipline, and how discipline is boring, tiring, and painful.

31. “Man’s evolutionary imperative—his natural default—is to spread his genetic footprint far and wide by way of fucking as many women as possible during his lifetime. I don’t know about y’all, but that seems like a pretty great default to me, so why rock that boat?”
    I understand that this article is about FEELINGS and physical “satisfaction” that comes from fucking many women, not actually conceiving children for many women (and supporting your families financially and emotionally) and passing your genes, but I still comment.
    “Harem life” which ROK describes about is a barren harem. The many women you casually fuck are usually on pill or use some other form of contraception. And even though she would not, she probably does abortion, if she gets pregnant.
    So even though this kind of life style satisfies your biological urges on (lizard) brain level, you are not actually spreading your genetic footprint far and wide by way. You are actually a biological dead-end, because you devote your time for sex, which does not create future generations. Stable family life within a marriage blessed with enough children keeps society going. Bastards grown without a father create an unstable society, because father is an important figure for his children in many ways.
    The writer of the article is of course a father already, and has spreaded his seed, but my comment is about hedoinistic life in general level.
    By the way, probably many Ultra-Orthodox or Orthodox Jewish men are also bored with fucking just one woman/wife (not to speak about monogamous Muslims [if I remember right, about 95 % of Muslim men have only one wife] or Christian men), but they choose the continuity of their families/lineages/tribes over selfish hedoinism. Their main goal(s) in life are not about how fun they have, but instead of what can they do to people around them. It’s more about self-sacrifice and serving others than your own fun. It’s about continuity of your own people, not the continuity of your own pleasure. The greatest pleasure comes often from helping other people.

32. I will tell you what kills that biological need to spread your genetic foot more than marriage. It’s called child support to multiple baby mommas. Don’t believe me? Ask Terrell Owens and Allen Iverson how that worked for them!

33. All good points. This is why marriage used to offer men concessions:
    – authority over wife
    – security (no frivorce allowed)
    – expectation of young virgin bride
    Now, it’s her family at her discretion. Of course it’s a shit deal for men.

34. Windmillsofhismind, you mentioned that “throughout human history every 1 man has reproduced for every 7 or 8 women” and also “In the late Neolithic era […] the sexual reproduction imbalance was 27 women for every 1 man”.
    That’s very interesting…do you have any scientific data for those claims? Any sources?

35. I figure poetry would not be appreciated at Return of Kings here. But after scrolling through these comments, it brought to mind a poem from a different age. Which only makes me wonder what the poet’s wife might have thought of it.
    A HAPPY MAN
    When these graven lines you see,
    Traveler, do not pity me;
    Though I be among the dead,
    Let no mournful word be said.
    Children that I leave behind,
    And their children, all were kind;
    Near to them and to my wife,
    I was happy all my life.
    My three sons I married right,
    And their sons I rocked at night;
    Death nor sorrow never brought
    Cause for one unhappy thought.
    Now, and no need of tears,
    Here they leave me, full of years,–
    Leave me to my quiet rest
    In the region of the blest.
    -Edwin Arlington Robinson

    1. A few days after posting this, it occurred to me to Bing the author. Robinson was never married. And authored “Richard Cory”, his most well known poem. Which I was familiar with, but failed to connect to this poem.
       It seems his true love was judged too old for him, or him too young, who married his older, charismatic brother. Which went badly, as Robinson knew it would. Since he knew his brother better than his bride did; as an alcoholic ne’er-do-well. But the poet did find happiness with a long term mistress, or girlfriend.
       All of which is slightly embarrassing to me, since I took “The Happy Man” straight all these years.

36. It’s quite entertaining to see so many sexually frustrated men here. Seriously, if you guys are so concerned about how the Vagina stretches to pop out another crying bundle of a mortal coil, then bang a hoe or anyone who don’t give a damn. This planet is overpopulated enough and of course with more humans then less “value” each individual has…

    1. Johan,
       I’d like to think there would be some white people around in the future, all the ‘overpopulation’ is non-white. Having less white children won’t fix anything.

       1. “This planet is overpopulated enough and of course with more humans then less “value” each individual has…”
          I’m literally paraphrasing the late and grate Issac Asimov here for all who think I’m just making stuff up.

37. In terms of relative difficulty- being SUCCESSFULLY married is much harder than tricking dumb sluts into fucking you (which, honestly, is easy as shit).
    And being married where SHE controls things as described in the article is a FAILURE.
    To even remotely consider a marriage successful means the husband is clearly/unquestionably in charge. Not in a psycho way but in a “I’m not gonna put up with her shit, and she knows it” way.
    The wife isn’t going to “reward” hubby with sex for capitulating to her bossy demands. Of course. She will reward him with freaky shit when he rejects her “demands” and exerts the genuine strength that sends a quiver through her nether regions.
    Sadly what I just described is less than 1% of marriages in the U.S. today.

38. Marriage serves the patriarchy; it gives men control and ownership over a woman, and ensures that the children she’s having are her partner’s (or at least you’d hope so). Perhaps biologically monogamy isn’t suited to males, but culturally it serves its purpose.

    1. Control and ownership in many cultures/countries but IF you have a decent job and net worth in AMERICA, NAH! Did Tiger Woods have domain over his wife or was he cutting a check for $100 million for FIVE years of marriage?
       Divorce screws the American man across all demographics.

39. Society has progressed, there’s no need to spread your seed ‘far and wide’ because the likelihood of your children’s survival is greater and almost even guaranteed. At this point it’s a case of ensuring they grow up to be decent human beings, which is a task in this decaying society.

40. Sounds like mgtow. i got nothing against mgtow’s that dont shame other men for wanting to have sex and/or get married.

41. Example A – Tristan Thompson, multimillionaire NBA player
    Bangs a Kardashian, knocks her up.
    Caught on camera last week 3,000 miles away, with THREE woman, at a night club. Said women, touching his junk. pulling his head into their bosoms, he grabbing his junk “saying get ready to smash”,
    Flies to. L.A.to see his new seedling be born by Khloe,
    Last, report that he’s got another gal, named Tania, who has been seen a Cavs game in town and other cities like Boston Reportedly, he’s been tapping that keg for 9 months i.e. around the same time the Kardashian is giving up her womb to his junk.
    A man living the manly-comingling life to which we all should be so free and sexing!

42. well I am married female for almost ten years and I love LOVE having sex. We have two children and it doesn’t stop me from trying to do role play, sex in the closet, on the kitchen sink. I enjoy working out in the gym and I always have when I was dating my husband at the time. After I gave birth to my first child I was back to 118 pounds after hard work in the gym. It took my 4 months but I was determined. My hair is long to my ass and I wear heals even chasing after my kids.
    And if my pussy was loose, which Is not…they have surgery for that stuff. It’s a quick fix.
    So marriage is not a fail, just pick a woman who was raise by good parents with good moral spiritual life. My dad gave me great advice growing up.
    Anyways, I have seen old people who never had children and it’s sad. Imagine holidays being by yourself, or being on a hospital room all alone. It may not happen now but time catches up, can’t fight time.

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