How To Game Indian Girls In India

What do you do if you work for a multi-national and you get sent to India on a work assignment? Do you just forget about game entirely and be celibate the whole time? Or rather do you work through whatever external difficulties may exist in India?

Below I’ll be sharing a few logistics and experiences of how to game Indian girls in India. But first, let me share briefly a few words about the psychological make-up of most Indian women that I have understood from direct experience so far.

Psychological Make Up And Attitude Of Average Indian Woman

All Indian girls have a massive ego and huge attitude, as Matt Forney already covered for the Americanized versions. Why is this, even though most of them are fat and ugly, you ask? Because there are 30 million more men in India than there are women. It’s literally a massive fucking sausage fest. When I’m out in the nightlife districts, I generally see on average one girl walking with three to four men with her. I

t’s absolutely shameless how pathetic a lot of Indian men are because they’ve been trained from birth by their mothers to worship women and consider women as goddesses. All the feminist propaganda you hear about in India is nothing but a bunch of bullshit.

But this is where “foreigner game” can come into play. A lot of Indian women are sick of Indian men, and the fact that you are a foreigner makes you automatically exotic in their eyes, especially if you’re a white foreigner from America or Europe. Remember, it’s every Indian girl’s dark fantasy to be sexually dominated by a white guy.


Types Of Indian Women To Approach

This part is vital. You’ll only want to approach young Indian women who are dressed very fashionably, because this signals the possibility that they are “modern” and aren’t stuck in an 18th century mindset. Otherwise if you approach women dressed in churidars (the colorful loose pants) or even worse, sarees, you’ll be wasting your time.

A Word About Indian Men

While I’ve met a lot of very polite, educated, and intelligent Indian men, the fact remains is that the majority of Indian men are massive cockblocks and have a tremendous “little man syndrome” towards foreign, non-Indian men. You can never truly trust them. Therefore, forget about having an Indian wingman unless you meet one of the extremely rare Indian men who are true alphas.

Street Game

I myself was shocked and pleasantly surprised to discover that street game works in India, although only in larger cities like Mumbai or Delhi. It works best if you’re a white male. Street game works best if you act like a helpless lost tourist and ask a girl for help finding the Metro station or a taxi. Then you very casually tell her “Thanks for your help, let me get your number so that if there’s any problem I can call you for help” and hand her your phone with the Add Contact screen already open.

This method works generally 40 to 50 percent of the time, and depends heavily on your vibes. You have to actually act like a lost tourist because if she thinks you are approaching her with the intention of seducing her it lessens the impact.

Deepika Padukone Hot photos (2)

Social Circle Game

This is probably the easiest and best method to meet upper-class Indian women. The rate of success with social circle game is far higher than street game also. India is still very much a socially stratified country and the only Indian women that will even be open to dating western men are upper class, educated, and rich. And you can generally only access those women through their social circles. Become a good social networker and learn how to build good connections and friendships with the upper class elements of Indian society.

Online Dating Sites

Using online dating sites like OKCupid and POF works wonders in India because you’ll find Indian women who are generally open to the concept of dating and especially dating western men. It’s hilarious to go through Tinder and just mass right swipe Indian women and see
who bites.

Western Women Living or Visiting India

After dealing with a few Indian girls, you may have a newfound appreciation for western women. Yes, western women play games but they are very easy to game as compared to the psychologically complex Indian women. In places like Goa or the tourist district of large cities you’ll find plenty of western women who you can meet. I personally have not chosen this option, though, because I see the conquering of Indian women as a challenge.


Pace, Speed, and Setting of Gaming Indian Women

With Indian women things move much more slowly, like everything else in India. While there are rare girls who are actually free-spirited and will have one night stands, the vast majority of Indian women are very sexually repressed. It’s less about trying to seduce them and more about trying to create an intense emotional connection with them, after which you can gradually turn up the intensity

Basically it’s much more psychological than physical, and while that sucks, it also presents many interesting opportunities to learn how to deal with very complex female psychological mindsets. By constantly remembering the maxim “Game is just trolling women,” I’m able to tolerate this. You also can never show any kind of emotional attachment or dependence with Indian women unless you are consciously running beta-male game on them, which will be effective because she’ll be able to sense your emotional detachment from her.

The trap that most Indian women will try to snare you in is to get you even slightly emotionally attached to them and believe me, Indian women are masters at this. If you can pass that shit test, then seducing her and having sex with her will be relatively easy by comparison.

I found an Indian alpha mentor, probably the only Indian male I’ve ever met in my life who I would describe as “alpha” and he told me “As soon as an Indian woman realizes she can’t have you, she will chase after you like a crazy person.” I’ll try to break down an overall chronological strategy for gaming Indian women below, based on these points:

1. Get her number, and chat with her through text or WhatsApp

2. Work on building a low level intensity emotional connection during the next week

3. Ask her to meet you and then stand her up an hour before, saying something like “Work came up” or something like that. Do this at least 3 times, flaking on her.

4. Finally make a meeting with her, something very casual like walk around her college campus or some nature park, just chatting casually and building rapport

5. Now keep texting her and build a medium level intensity emotional connection, and start adding in light sexual remarks

6. Make another date with her and build up the emotional connection to a high intensity level. Unfortunately all you’ll be able to do is kiss her. Lame, I know.

7. Now that she is emotionally dependent on you, you threaten to cut it off with her. At this point, if you’ve primed her enough, you’ll be able to have sex with her (or take her virginity away). Now you’ve got her in your harem and if you’ve been using this same strategy on multiple Indian women simultaneously it won’t take a lot of time to have a harem of five or more in your rotation.


Concluding Words

So why would anyone want to go to this much trouble just to have sex with Indian women? As I said before, if you’re stuck in India, there’s not a whole lot else you can do besides treat this as a pastime or recreational activity.

Now if you’re a nice guy, you might say “Well that’s cruel! Making some poor Indian girl emotionally dependent on you and then taking her virginity away.” Don’t be fooled, gentlemen. Indian women are not the innocent little angels they present themselves to be. I used to think white women were bad, but now I think white women are angels compared to Indian women.

Ultimately, the first rule is to never make the mistake of ending up in India. The second rule is that if you do make the mistake of ending up in India, try to remain positive and not get dragged down by the negativity of the country. And the third rule is to spend your free time gaming Indian women because it is a fun way to pass the time.

Read More: 5 Reasons Why You Should Not Date Indian Girls

319 thoughts on “How To Game Indian Girls In India”

  1. As someone who has been to India on many occasions I strongly advice not to pursue Indian women at all as they are all physically repulsive and mentally retarded at the same time.
    Once I had a rare occasion to almost bang an attractive [rare, really rare] Indian but her sari photos on facebook were so ingrained in my mind I just couldn’t.

    1. Sorry to hear that you had no luck with woman in India and got blown out all the time. But don’t mislead people, there are many, many gorgeous, approachable women there.

        1. now your comment is way more misleading man. Either you got really lucky or you are trolling

      1. I’m a Westernised Indian. Married to a half-Indian, half-Cypriot. Every time I travel to India, I’m shocked at the utter dearth of quality of there.
        Last time we were there, my brother actually noticed how his standards were dropping and he was checking out girls he’d look right past in Toronto.
        I love my family and all that there. But why any Westerner would bother dating in India is beyond me. I’d rather be celibate for the time there.

        1. Cities. London and Birmingham. Careful of Birmingham though. They have instituted Shari’a Law.

        2. Really? I remember hearing David Cameron saying that Birmingham was completely safe.

        3. How much power do muslims actually have there? Around the world we hear at lot of different claims, but it just ends up devolving into Left/Right propaganda war. What’s the truth on the ground?

        4. Lol! There was a big thing last month when a Fox news anchor claimed Birmingham was Shari’a. It’s not true.

        5. don’t confuse Pakistanis with Indians… a bit like mixing up Arabs with Israelis….

        6. Mate I was joking… Reference here:
          Btw I grew up with Pakistanis and Indians. The differences are not as great as you suggest. They are essentially the same people. The British Empire partitioned Pakistan out of India. The primary difference between Pakistanis and Indians is religion, geography and dress.
          That said, generally, my preference is for Pakistani women (of which there are a ton in Birmingham). Muslim aside they seem to be more up for relationships outside of their religion, the women seem to be more stylish and they tend to be physically more attractive, IMO.
          It is because of my close relationship with Pakistanis you will often see my impassioned arguments with commenters on this blog about Muslims (of which people want to place all 2bn in the same boat). A Muslim from Pakistan is very different to a Muslim from Saudi Arabia.

    2. I disagree with your generalization of Indian women (though the culture certainly isn’t what it used to be – it was better). But what was wrong with the sari?

  2. This advice is really helpful for people living in India. In my class there was literally one guy getting it from four to five different girls, all because he was patient, like your post advocates.
    The girls are pretty sexually repressed but once you’ve put in your two weeks of rapport ( after ascertaining she likes you from obvious signals ) and start dread game, you can pretty much do what you like.
    One major plus point is that if you lift, work on interesting hobbies and approach regularly, you are better than 99% of men here.

    1. Two weeks of rapport? Give me a fucking break. 2 days tops. If she aint banging I ain’t hanging.

      1. Ain’t happening in India bro. Took me almost two years to boil down standard game to an equation that applied to Indian girls.

        1. I’m rearing to go. Its full psychological game here. You have to take care even to keep it a secret. It is a wasteland man.

  3. Firstly, the vast majority of Indian girls look nothing like the girl in the above picture (Priyanka Chopra) or any other Bollywood actresses.
    Secondly, the vast majority of Indian girls (particularly) in the Mumbai area, are now becoming Westernised. They are now also choosing to have graffiti, sorry I mean tattoos, on their body and drinking like pigs and vomiting on the streets. That is the truth behind the lifestyle of modern Indian women. And yes, they also carry around smartphones and replicate the same lifestyle of the degenerate celebrity world.
    But what makes them even worse, is that they have a severe case of inferiority complex. They worship caucasians like a God. This goes to show you that a lot of Indian girls do not have any self respect or integrity in regards to their own customs, culture and traditional values.

    1. not quite like a god, but they admire their appearance see them as short term fun. They look down on white people for being overtly sexual and not have morals or culture. They just lust for them.
      ya the quality of the girls in the city aint great either. And their actress aint all that. Not just vomit but piss and shit. But all in all not that many women go out just those rich cunts

  4. Before continuing to read the rest of the article let me address what you said in the second sentence:
    I’d rather be celibate.
    Indian women are fucking hairy and disgusting and they lie far too much. Indian men can’t even handle them because of how much they cheat.
    I want better quality in women
    Gonna finish reading the article now

    1. better quality….latin america eastern europe and east asia have been popualr for a reason. Hell russian girls get trafficed into india for either legit marriage or prositituion where they make more and charge more then the local women

  5. This is stupid and needs to come with a warning label. You do not game women in India if you have not even got it remotely right with western women. This is like putting desperate men into a minefield. You are dealing with a culture you do not understand. Even Indian guys hardly understand it. Ridiculous article.

    1. Some of the ‘international playboy’ advice on ROK feels like it was written by a tourist passing through.

      1. And I still don’t buy into the EE or Asian girl stereotype the website endorses. Sure, they look better than American women, but not all of them necessarily make good wives or LTR material.

        1. You’re taking the ideas of the site to the extreme. No, not all Asian women would make good mothers. Not all women of any culture are inherently good. They’re just better on average. On average, east Asian women are the most loyal women on earth. They’re the least likely to give birth out of wedlock or file for a divorce. They probably also have the lowest infidelity rates.
          As for Eastern Europeans I am really unsure. I imagine that even if they wouldn’t necessarily make better wives, they’re still much more conversational and much more enjoyable people to be around. I know 2 ukrainian women from school who you could talk about red pill topics with and they wouldn’t want to lynch you at all.. they’d just share their opinion. One of those girls even told me how she has to censor herself so much because Americans get offended to easily. She IS a little bit red pill!
          Latin American are often forgetton about. But those women are the most attractive. Tan skin, wide hips, huge tits, yet many have thin waists. Their accents and language is also a lot more sexy than anywhere else in the world. They know how to please a man. But as far as making good wives, I’m cynical. You’d want to put a LOT of effort into making sure you’re getting a quality woman. As sexy as they are, they have enormous street smarts and will manipulate you like crazy if you’re not careful.

    2. Not so fast. The whole concept of game is questionable, but what works in one place may fail disastrously in another. The kind of guys who might be laying in the top 10% in the west might not get anything in India.

    1. Shit! Do you mean not all authors have the same opinion on every subject? Fuck me stone the crows!

  6. “Remember, it’s every Indian girl’s dark fantasy to be sexually dominated by a white guy.”
    I went to NC State University, where Indians were the largest minority, so I had many Indian friends. Indian girls ONLY date Indian guys. They do not fantasize about white guys. I’m not sure where this fallacy came from.
    Also, Indian girls look nothing like the Bollywood actresses you see on TV. Those actresses are the top 5%. Indian girls in general are very unattractive.

    1. “Indian girls ONLY date Indian guys”
      I disagree. Where I once lived, all the indian girls married caucasians.

        1. Toronto Canada.
          I know an Indian girl married to a rich Spaniard friend of mine. And I’ve had Indian girls become obsessed with me before (girls I never dated). I see a lot of minority groups stick together here but Indian chicks love the white-devil.

        2. What’s funny is I grew up around an huge Indian population where the Indian women loved the BBC and I’m not talking about Downton Abbey.
          Moral of the story:
          Women switch teams.

        3. For some reason I feel like a lot of PUA come out of Toronto because the dating scene is so fucked up there. I’m pretty sure that’s where Mystery was from, and at least a few others..

    2. I agree. I did a school project with two other Indian girls and now they only text me when they want help with homework or help translating something. Plus even though they’re mildly attractive I don’t think they shower or shave their legs much. But either way, Indians tend to act condescending towards every other race.
      I have much more luck with Chinese girls, even though most Chinese girls aren’t very receptive at first and you have to break them out of their cultural shell.

  7. Every culture has a section of slum like women and every culture has a section of women who are good eating fish. If your hope is to just bang these women, are we really concerned with anything more than the P going into the V and the quickest way to get that done? I don’t care about the culture of women, they are all inferior to us anyways.

  8. I can confirm most of this. I am trying to escape from this place myself. Although, your social standing has a lot to do with your gaming. I don’t know why, but cars are a very big deal here. If you have a car and take them on long rides, show them some of that elusive bad boy charm, they will be eating out of your hand in no time. Most Indians are socially repressed and if you can show them the way to sexual freedom, they will gladly follow. Of course, this has to be done very subtly. I can speak of this in a broader fashion if it interests anyone.
    On a side note, one of the Hindu gods Krishna has tales where he kept a harem of over 1000 wives and is considered a master seducer.

  9. Can someone write an article about the best places in the world? Places with beautiful landscapes with an opportunity to seduce, to charm, rather than game women. Call me an idealist but I still prefer to think such places exist.

    1. ” . . . to seduce, to charm, rather than game women.”
      Such a place exists only in your thoughts, because such a distinction exists only in your thougts.

        1. Even if your cup is only 1/10 full, if it is full of sewage ladling it to the brim with the purest water only serves to fill it with sewage.
          There is no existential quandary involved, only the simple difference between knowledge and ignorance, as the only distinction between “charming” a woman and “gaming” a woman is whether or not you know what a woman finds charming.

    2. What’s the difference between seducing charm and game? They’re basically the same thing

      1. It’s like the difference between, may I say, art and science. Gaming, we imagine as a series of steps. Sort of like solving an equation. Seduction, I believe, is more abstract, like painting. In a nutshell, I would say you are more involved in a seduction and you get satisfactorily compensated for it.

        1. “Seduction, I believe, is more abstract, like painting.”
          Show me a painter who has not practiced technique and I will show you some crappy paintings.

        2. You’re kinda arguing the example rather than the point. I think the example makes the point clear. Game is where you come up with a preconceived plan, test it, and evaluate the results whereas seducing should just come naturally and feel good. Obviously there’s going to be some gray area here.

        3. “Game is where you come up with a preconceived plan . . .”
          That is a preconception.
          ” . . . seducing should just come naturally . . .”
          In other words; artless. My point exactly.
          What is actually being wished for here isn’t seduction, it’s romance.

    3. “Places with beautiful landscapes with an opportunity to seduce, to charm, rather than game women.”
      A place where the impact of a thoughtful compliment is worth at least a fraction as much as a neg.
      Not sure if that exists but hey its an idea.

      1. As american that’s one of the things one of things I’ve noticed. If I compliment an american women she rolls her eyes, or her face is just blank. When I compliment a foreign woman she pauses and looks at me slowly and carefully and says thank you in a cute accent. I honestly don’t know how to compliment an american female. I’ve given up trying.

        1. I agree with you that foreign girls are more receptive to good men.
          IMO with westernized girls you have to put more effort into making them jealous of other chicks, dread game, appearing cooler than them blablabla, etc.
          Not until they start hitting the wall do they realize the true value of a good man… But by then they can’t muster up any real attraction for him… Or anyone except the most cartoonish person… Western chicks play men like they play the stock-market, they buy high and sell low and end up fucking themselves over.

    4. Anywhere that isn’t the west is better than anywhere in the west… with some obvious exceptions like Iran..

    1. Idiotic rituals like female infanticide. Most couples used to prefer a male child to a female child. Although mostly dead throughout, this custom is still practised in some very backward regions of this country.

        1. I have adapted to their psychology and have a five plate rotation going on. But even so, you can’t imagine how much effort I’m applying to get out of this country. I like it, it’s my home. But there is a very skewed ratio of effort v/s return. Both in gaming and monetary wise.

      1. It comes from a rather valid cultural reason. In India (and China), sons are FORCED to care for their aging parents under penalty of fines or jail. Daughters have no duty to their parents. There is also no retirement plan for the vast majority other than their children. If you had the choice to raise a son or daughter in that scenario, would you not choose the former as well? If daughters had the same duty to care for aging parents, the preference for boys would drop be even with the preference for girls, just like in western countries.
        Now consider this. In every country in the world, women outlive men. In china and india, women outlive men by 3 and 4 years respectively ( Since they require more care in old age due to a longer old age, who do you suppose would have the most to lose from having excess daughters?

        1. in the case of india, the daughters and daughter in law care for the parents, its the dowry thing that is the issue.
          Sons are prefered since hell make money,protect you and less likely to get hurt out their in the world. Duaghters are a headache to raise espically when they rebel and are more vulernable

  10. Just buy yourself a hooker while you’re stuck there for work and forget doing all this bullshit. It’s quick and easier and there’s no ulterior motive from either of you.

    1. According to Havocscope an adult prostitute in Calcutta is $1…. Definitely easier, cheaper & more efficient to just bang hookers.

  11. Indian girls like white men because white worship is rampant in India. The skin whitening industry makes big money over there. It has to do with the Brits conquering India. So if you are white you will indeed clean up well.
    Black people however are looked down upon as criminals so if you are a black person and want to get with an Indian you will have to find one in the UK or US where they have grew up in a more race friendly culture.
    Caste also plays a huge role. In India the high caste Hindus have lighter skin and the color of the skin is what determined your place in society hence the darkest were seen as low castes or worse outcasts entirely.
    While Indians will act like these caste issues no longer exist it is actually well ingrained in their society and in fact has even entered into the lives of Indian Muslims and Christians who follow their own version of the caste system despite their respective religions disagreeing with such a concept.
    Anyway I am American Pakistani and Indian girls tend to throw themselves at Pakistanis generally on the same scale that they do white boys. However this is because Pakistanis are made out to be the quintessential bad guys or boogeymen by their media on a near non-stop basis and we all know how much women love them a thug lol.

    1. Every Indian at my college was a Patel. One of my good indian friends dated this indian girl for 4 years through college, and wanted to marry her after college. Even though they both had the same last name, she was of a lower caste so his parents were against him marrying her. He just let her go and broke up with her lol

      1. Lol thats the gist of it. The funny thing is the parents of the chick would probably have the same concerns with their daughter marrying into the higher caste. Think of it, they wouldn’t want their daughter marrying into a family that would treat her like dirt so they would probably ask her to stick to her caste.

    2. It has to do with the Brits conquering India. So if you are white you will indeed clean up well. … In India the high caste Hindus have lighter skin and the color of the skin is what determined your place in society hence the darkest were seen as low castes or worse outcasts entirely.

      Was it this way before the Brits?

      1. No, it was not. Some of the most revered figures in Indian mythology, like Krishna, Rama, and Arjuna, were specifically described as being very dark-skinned.

      2. It has always existed but not on the scale it is today, when the British came along they only exasperated these preexisting divisions based on their “divide and rule” doctrine.
        The High caste Hindus, known as Brahmins were originally either invaders or migrants (depends on who you ask) from Central Asia/Iran who upon entering South Asia became the dominant ruling class or caste as they call it in India. They were known as the Aryans and were Caucasian so naturally lighter compared to the darker skinned natives. As time passed and they began mixing with the natives they could no longer claim greater ethnic superiority and so eventually the term Aryan entered Sanskrit as not an ethnic classification but a classification of nobility. However despite mixing they were still lighter skinned and so it became a way to distinguish their caste. By practicing strict caste based marriages they were able to prevent the further dilution of their bloodline. That is why even today Brahmins in India are much lighter skinned than the majority of other Indians.
        A fun fact is that Aryan still holds ethnic meaning in Iran but in Pakistan and India if you say Aryan it just means a “noble”.

        1. You are an idiot. The Aryan Invasion theory you refer to has been disproved countless times as a myth, often with scientific evidence and such techniques. However, it’s often to the convenience of idiots in the West to still think of an outdated theory as the gospel truth.
          Secondly, not all Brahmins are light skinned. I was born in a Brahmin family yet I am dark skinned. I know several that are dark skinned as well, so it’s only the idiots like you who imagine that all Brahmins are lighter skinned. My female cousins on the other hand are quite light skinned, so it’s mostly a mix and not as homogeneous as you think it is. While the Indians do prefer light skin over dark skin, it’s not the ugly pink hue that the Scottish or Irish White have, they mostly aspire to have the light skinned look that Latinas or Persians have. Not the ugly pink blotchy skin that most Americans have.

        2. I acknowledged it was either an invasion or migration, like I said it depends on who you ask. You clearly did not read my whole post before replying in a typical emotionally charged fashion. Since you started off by calling me an idiot I did not bother to read beyond the first two sentences of your post.

    3. everything but the clean up part.
      they want to ge gore to be fair like a latina or persian not udjar which means to be pale like a scotsman. ANd this is with girls or homo/metro men.

  12. it’s every Indian girl’s dark fantasy to be sexually dominated by a white guy.

    Got to love those absolutist statements!

  13. Its pretty hard to pinpoint the overarching ideology of ROK, at least in terms of logical consistency.
    On the one hand the Indian girls are preferred if they act westernized, since they are easier to game. More conservative oriented women will simply not be as receptive to game, since they do not sell their pussy as cheaply.
    On the other hand westernized women have become to slutty, bitchy and entitled.
    So it seems like the the globetrotting fornicators have a problem. Their hump and dump behaviour is reinforcing the culture they are trying to escape from. They complain about the degeneracy of western culture, which is understandable.
    But then they set out on a quest to amass sheer numbers of “notch counts” and “flags”, spreading the whoring degeneracy which they in principle oppose.
    Women are supposed to save themselves for marriage, but if they come across a charming gamer they are assumed to drop their nickers. And then follows the moral outrage and hypocricy about women whoring around on the “cock caroussel”.
    Where is the logic to this form of thinking?

    1. You’re not the first one being puzzled by the ideological inconsistency of this site. I stopped wondering long ago.

        1. Also, even if they did want the nice guy, they could have it. The conversative oriented woman – on the other hand – is dying…And it’s not because of a small group of globe-trotting fornicating males.

      1. There’s no inconsistency. You, Jannik, and the 84 other people that upvoted his comment are all making an assumption that has no grounding in reality. This quote right here sums up the false idea:
        “Their hump and dump behaviour is reinforcing the culture they are trying to escape from. ”
        Jannik is automatically assuming that the hump and dump behaviour of guys is the cause of the behaviour of women. When in reality, the behaviour of women – made possible by the weak and pathetic forefathers that allowed it to devolve to this – is the cause of the hump and dump behaviour.
        Assuming that a small sub-culture of PUAs and men who have the gaming ability to bed scores of women is somehow reinforcing or encouraging western women’s bad behaviour is ridiculous. What’s reinforcing western women’s bad behaviour is the 99.9% of men who don’t read sites like this.
        There’s nothing wrong with wishing for one thing, but accepting that the current reality doesn’t allow for it, and making the best of the situation. It’s the perfect blend of idealism and pragmatism.

        1. No I am not assuming that this is the sole cause. I admit fully that the causes are deep rooted, and predate the gaming culture.
          But this is also a numbers game, and if many western men start to practice the backpacking pump and dump culture this will have real social consequences.
          An example would be the sex industry in a place like Thailand, which has turned the place into a decadent brothel.
          What is astounding are all the cosmopolitan PUAs who deny responsibility of their actions. Even if you ignore the macro scale consequences of the PUA lifestyle, on a personal level it is based on quite dubious ethics.
          If the pathetic fathers that you mention were to man up, they would kick out the PUA gamer, identifying him as the manipulator that he is. And rightly so. Who in the world would want their daughter to sleep with a sleeze ball like him?
          PUAs most definetely dont qualify as marriage material. So they really have no business complaining about the lack of appropriate women.
          “There’s nothing wrong with wishing for one thing, but accepting that the current reality doesn’t allow for it, and making the best of the situation. It’s the perfect blend of idealism and pragmatism.”
          I call bullshit on this explanation. It really deep down is just a rationalization for going on a fuck spree in foreign countries.
          In all countries, even western ones, there is still a segment of women who are quite conservative and who dont fuck around like the bar skanks. But offcourse you wont find them in various clubs late at night.
          Contrary to what you state it is possible, you just dont want it that much. At least be honest about it.

        2. What is astounding are all the cosmopolitan PUAs who deny responsibility of their actions.

          This is contradictory. PUAs accept responsibility for their actions. But they are not responsible for the actions of women who choose to sleep with them. You seem to be suggesting that a PUA is responsible for the degeneracy of other people (RE women). He is not.
          How fathers feel about it is immaterial. Besides which, no father wants his daughter to sleep with any man outside of marriage.

        3. He didn’t say that “hump-and-dump” is the cause, it says: “it is reinforcing the culture they are trying to escape from”.
          His point is that this behaviour is not adaptive (as gamers claim), it is self-destructive and I agree.

        4. I really don’t think you need to worry. How many PUAs are there operating on this scale? Not enough to be a major factor on the “degeneracy of the West”.

        5. When speaking of actions I am referring to the fact that PUAs are promoting a culture of ONS. Putting a high prize on corrupting virgins.
          PUAs are certainly responsible for promoting this kind of degeneracy. They could choose not to, promoting a totally different kind of lifstyle. Why are you making excuses for them?
          PUAs and their followers are responsible for their actions concerning game. Its a two way street. Women are responsible for their actions, but so are PUAs when they try to game women.
          Its not just women doing the choosing, PUAs are just as responsible.
          And I beg to differ, what the father thinks is very important as the head of household. He would naturally want his daughter to hook up with a man of quality

        6. I’m not sure what excuses I am making. You or I can promote what we like but it is the responsibility of the individual to decide whether to in turn imitate those actions. That said, ONSs have been around for decades and they pre-date the PUA culture.
          As for degeneracy. Is multiple ONSs degenerate behavior? I couldn’t say. I will say that I do not enjoy them and prefer to have a certain depth to my relations with women. That said, if a man wants to fuck his way through scores of generally less than average women, have at it I say.
          These guys are a mere handful of the men out there and frankly, they pose too small a group for us to seriously concern ourselves with.

        7. This depends if women have agency or not. That is, if they can be held responsible for their actions – if they are rational beings.
          One view holds that women are emotional creatures who conform to whatever their environment happens to be at the moment. I’m still making up my mind on this issue, just throwing it out there.

        8. This is an important point. Even if we agree that women have agency, the PUAs still exert a great deal of agency. In fact they are encouraging the behaviour that they despise.

        9. Yes personally I think ONS are a form of degeneracy. This implies people are being promiscous and screwing around instead of forming families.
          It is not behaviour which is adaptive or sustainable for society at large.
          As people get older they usually change preferences toward more long term based relations. This still does not change the fact that young women should not sleep around with multiple men before they settle down.
          At present the cosmopolitan PUAs are having a very limited impact on the destination countries. Mail brides and prostitutes are a much larger fraction. But they really are part of the same larger industry.
          As far as I know the PUA culture has had an impact on the domestic culture in the US. There is however not a great chance of the PUA travelling lifestyle becoming popular, since it requires both Money and spare time to sustain in the long run.
          But the fact remains that the gamers are acting hypocritically. The average PUA probably doesnt care much about either feminism or the maintanence of the purity of women. They care for the notch counts, and this is pretty much it.
          So why insist on becoming morally outraged? It just comes across as fake. Far better to just be honest and admit that its exclusively about getting the pussy.

        10. If you live in Iraq, will you demand a lovely suburban home and a comfy SUV, or will you carry an AK and drive an armor plated hummer… ?
          PUA just makes the best of a bad situation…. that’s all… it is not moral or immoral it is ‘amoral’…. it sees things for how they are… women want to be validated with ONS, they seek easy sex but are impossible / not worth the time of day for an LTR…. what’s a man to do….? fuck them anyway, or jerk off in his momma’s basement…. few options available in between….
          Carrying an AK and driving an amor plated SUV in Iraq is not reinforcing the insurgents, it’s just sensible practice….

        11. No it is not amoral. This is a lame excuse for dodging the consequences of your actions. No external force is making you seek out multiple ONS for your own sexual gratification. You still have choice and agency.
          Who ever made up the idea that women are only interested in ONS? I dont see the evidence anywhere.
          On average women are interested in relationships of a longer duration compared to men. This is what all the science documents, and it also makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint.

        12. I think it’s very hard to find an attractive woman who is down to earth and enjoyable to be around combo in the west… but I don’t get upset about it anymore. Having poor quality women is a byproduct of the problem, not the root of western degeneracy. Western women behave the way they do because they are a product of their environment. If you think about it, only about 2% of men would be considered “red pill” by this site’s manifesto. American men are only marginally, if at all, better than American women on average.

        13. I’m actually pretty content without even hitting on western women at all right now. Why exhaust yourself being a PUA? Why do a dance for these women? Once you’ve seen how much greener the grass is on the other side, there’s no going back. The manosphere internet niche actually saved me from going crazy.. without it I’d probably still be in the same state of frustration.
          We really need to start demanding better behavior from western women, but the only way to do that is to not give them attention

        14. Yes. That is the point. They encourage the behaviour they despise. It is a huge issue about how women are treated.

    2. It is the nature of man to spread his seed and seek ownership of the women he impregnates. It is evolutionary logic. The organism has as its objective the longevity of its genes. The best way to do this, is for the male to maintain exclusive mating rights with the maximum number of females. This provides protection from genes being lost when the mother dies in child birth or when infant mortality occurs.
      Today, this is less of a concern but the drive remains. But I think you will find that generally, it is a relatively small number of females satisfying a relatively larger number of males. However, the number of males who have a significant notch count is low and so as such, it does not require a large number of females to satisfy the dominant males. Furthermore, females unconsciously select for dominant males and will pass up average males and sleep with a dominant male when the opportunity arises. Females will often go a very long time without a sex partner.
      In this way, it is possible for a man to simultaneously pursue a high notch count and a woman with an extremely low notch count.

      1. Yes this is the nature of men. But the gamers are not advocating ownership. Especially the sex touring ones who go abroad. They are in it for short term relationships or ONS. This is not consistent with the monopolization of females.
        Perhaps its a smaller number of females satisfying a larger share of males. I am not to sure about this. As far as I know the younger generation of females in the western World have had a fair amount of sexpartners, and the median seems also to be quite high. So it does not seem like a few outliers are skeewing the numbers upwards.
        Yes it is probably a fairly small number of men who have high notch Counts. And this site is probably trying to appeal to the men with low notch Counts, the frustrated guys who are loosing out.
        But this type of article is really not trying to encourage these frustrated men stuck in western countries to seek marriage material abroad, but instead trying to sell a sex adventure in foreign countries with exotic women.
        It really does not seem to make much sense when you do the numbers. The gamers are trying to sell an idea to large swaths of men that will only reinforce the degeneracy.
        If every man follows this advice, or even just a fair share of them, they will ruin the countries they start “hunting” in. Its illogical short term thinking at its finest.

        1. A lot of what you are saying is true but you have two broad sets of writers and readers. Gamers and those who are merely tired of Western women. Not only that, not every gamer is out for a high notch count. I game but I prefer quality to quantity. Also, I usually have girlfriends for years at a time. As such, in gaming terms my notch count is low.
          Others are all about quantity. I think this camp is small because this requires a serious amount of work for a small reward in my opinion.
          Also, consider sex travel requires significant investment in money and time. Few of us have the resources to do this frequently.
          Last, it is not gaming that causes the ruination of a nation. It is feminism born of socialism.
          Btw check the stats on sex partners. You will find the numbers consistently low.

        2. Yes gaming for high notch count requires alot of Investment, especially if travelling.
          I have read Rooshs blog for some time now, and even he is complaining about some former “good” countries being ruined due to the heightened competition from other players. Which in turn changes the mentality of the local women, usually for the worse. So yes feminism is having a detrimental effect, but so is gaming. Or at least the phenomena of large quantities of men travelling to a destination with the aim of getting a quick lay.
          So it seems like it is not something thought up in theory. Rooshs lifestyle and his advice is acting in a counterproductive way. Its really just another version of “the tragedy of the commons”.
          My personal notch count is fairly low. It was quite high in my early to mid twenties, since I went clubbing alot. But for the last 10 years or so it has been very low, since i have had a few long term relationships, and not very much apart from that. I guess this is normal when you age.
          I dont consider myself a gamer, although I possibly unconciously have used some of the techniques from time to time. I think much of the literature on the subject is interesting, although I filter alot of it out, when it directly contradicts my personal experiences.
          I dont think the stats are low for average sexual partners in western countries.
          Somewhere between 10-20 partners per women in western countries is quite high in my opinion. And women in western countries consistently have a higher amount of partners compared to developing countries.

        3. I would avoid Wiki as a source but that said, when I reviewed it, it did not seem to support your assertion. In 2007, an average of 7 partners for American men and 4 for American women. Generally, I find across sources the average stats are quite low. The conclusion I draw is that promiscuous behaviour is practiced amongst a relatively small number of people. Anecdotally, most people I know (at work for example) are married and married before 30. If they cheat on their partners it is rarely. Furthermore, most people seem to have LTRS, during which time they have very few other partners.
          Also consider, when a woman has a child she is unlikely to be interested (and will not likely be of interest to men) in running around bars and clubs looking for a shag.
          The point is, there is plenty of scope to “play the field” and find yourself a woman with a low notch count.

        4. Well its pretty hard to find accurate and unbiased data on this issue. And there is also som heterogenity at Work. Both internally within countries and between countries.
          It is true that some surveys report a low number of partners for women, like and average in the 5 partners per life range. But most of these report that a third or fourth of women have 15+ partners or so.
          This is offcourse a minority, but in no way a tiny minority. Thats quite a fraction, and these women are probably the ones frequenting the Club scene regularly.
          This article claims that women from New Zealand have an average of more than 20 partners in their life time. With several West European countries not to far behind.

          Apart from that I think it is correct that past a certain age people start forming LTR more exclusively, especially when they start having children..
          And it seems like a arge fraction of society have few sexual partners in their lifetime

    3. This is what I like about ROK, it allows inconsistency among opinions of the various writers, a more realistic approach, like relationships with women: full of contradictions and illogic.

      1. I have to disagree here. I think the sort of thinking i described in my earlier comment is quiet pervasive. I havent really come across that many articles discussing marriage and long term mating strategies.
        Either its MGTOWs trying to get away from women, or its the PUA wannabe gamers giving advice on how to pump and dump.
        A fair amount of articles deal with “how to game women in country X”. And several articles I have read condemn slutty behaviour on the one hand, but then start giving advice on how to game women for short term pleasure.
        Some of the authors must deal with cognitive dissonance when thinking their articles through. Or perhaps they simply dont care, and are just interested in writing entertaining pop culture articles.
        But then it really makes me question how serious this site really is.

        1. I haven’t really come across that many articles discussing marriage and long term mating strategies.

          Because there aren’t any and for a good reason (marriage under the current laws and zeitgeist is extremely risky) but otherwise I agree whole-heartedly.
          Honestly, I think what we view as cognitive dissonance is actually RoK attempting to two
          the cater to two entirely different, yet equally disenfranchised, audiences at once:
          The egocentric (not a bad thing) MGTOW disciples as well as the gynocentric (a very bad thing) PUA crowd.
          However, this isn’t really possible as the two are complete polar opposites. I recall Roosh voicing his distain for MGTOWs on a Matt Forney post a while back which speaks volumes.

        2. With regard to your long term mating strategies you have to admit neither PUAs nor MGTOWs advocate it.
          You shouldn’t expect that here.
          Where the MGTOWs and PUAs do see eye to eye is that women aren’t worth relationships – modern women at any rate.

        3. And you can sit there and wonder how serious the site is as if its something you can just dismiss but obviously what is expounded on the site resonates with a particularly large amount of men so much so that the site gets a large amount of support. Obviously its serious enough to warrant that.

        4. Sure the popularity of the site is due to the fact that it tries to address some very serious problems in western society.
          I am just not convinced that the sort of advice given is healthy in the long run, even apart from the contradictions.
          Is the purpose generating sound advice, or just creating click bait with the aim of attracting moral outrage and potential new readers?
          As time passes by I am much in doubt.

        5. There’s not much in the world that can be given as advice that wouldn’t at some point in the future if its followed resolutely by the majority wouldn’t lead to its opposite being manifested.
          In other words, if you tell men that women are special and more important than men it leads to what this site calls pedestalization and a society of women who are entitled and think they are better that men the adverse effects of which we are all too familiar with today.
          I largely ignore PUA advice because its largely redundant and ive not much need for it anymore. For a young man with no social skills in “courting” women this advice may be useful – this site has helped him.
          The way I see it this site offers at the very least at least some parity for men in a society that actively tries to demotivate them whether directly or indirectly – you may not see it this way but a lot of men here do.
          The advice may turn out to be harmful in the long run just as communism as an ideology and capitalism now as we are witnessing more or less.
          The site does offer at least a “male space” where men can come to rant and/or exchange ideas about issues without being policed by political correctness.
          Its not perfect but it helps

        6. “…perhaps they simply dont care, and are just interested in writing entertaining pop culture articles…”
          Pretty sure that´s the problem here.

        7. Yes this is my fear. I really want to think the best of this site, but it is increasingly becoming difficult.

        8. Well yes it does offer a male space which is free from PC, and it does get alot of exchanging of ideas going. This is solely positive.
          And I also think alot of the self help articles are sound advice, but even here there is also a lot of unscientific anectodal garbage.
          As I see it its all about striking a balance, and creating and adopting sustainable strategies for the long run.
          PUA and MGTOW are however not balanced and sustainable strategies. They are extreme ideologies which are not conducive to building stable Communities. This is my problem with them.

        9. I think MGTOW can have different meanings to differed people, I’d say I follow it’s lifestyle but I’m not a celibate who has given up contact with women. To me MGTOW means not pedestrianizing pussy, not letting women control your life or happiness, not getting married or moving in with a woman an focusing on yourself not females. Sure that may not change the toxic culture we live in but it doesn’t help it either.

    4. It is a mix of PUA’s and MGTOW’s. Hence all of the contradictory
      articles on here.
      “Their hump and dump behaviour is reinforcing the culture they are trying to escape from. ”
      I once wrote an entire long comment about that very thing were i recommended men not pump and dump women because that the leads to degeneracy and their response was that i was trying to “blame men for women’s behavior”. They reinforce the very problems they bitch about. They use women’s degenerate behavior to justify their own. Pure insanity. Not an ounce of personal responsibility from them. There is no getting through these people.

      1. Yes that is true. But the MGTOW articles are easier to identify, and deal mostly with independence. A movement by the way, which I think is seriously on the wrong track. But this is another seperate issue.
        Neither the MGTOW nor the PUAs deal with long term relationships or how to build community. This is all fine, since the ideologies do not really deal with these aspects, or simply dont care.
        My problem is with the gamers and their hypocricy. Condemming slut behaviour on the one hand, but then on the other hand devising strategies for upping the notch count. It simply makes little sense.
        Especially when these contradictory beliefs are held in the same article.

        1. It is only a matter of time before ROK’s inconsistency is used against it. I liked this site better way back when it is promoting patriarchy and traditional sexual roles.

        2. That must have been before I started reading on this site. But again, I have only read articles on this site for a year or so.
          So I must have missed the better times.
          But I am at least satisfied by knowing that I am not the only one having a hard time coming to terms with the glaring contradictions.
          And I am also starting to seriously question the effects on men practicing gaming as a lifestyle. Some of the long term effects must surely act as a form of psychological poison.
          This is addition to all the scammers and con men in the PUA industry selling useless advice.
          When you visit ROK you really need to put on your BS alert.

        3. Similar to the dichotomy between women’s outlooks on alphas and betas. They want to fuck the alphas, but know they are a bad bet to marry. Similarly, many of the women I know who married massive betas, despise their husbands and wish they had typical alpha traits.
          Same for us. The women we would like to marry, we would condemn them for any slutty behavior. Likewise, the girls we would like to fuck, we condemn them for being prudes.
          Its only by being aware of our own double standards, can we embrace them to accept what we are/do. This is the element that eludes most women and betas. Perhaps the standard 3rd wave feminist is aware of her hypocrisy ?

        4. Many things are psychological poison. 99% of the mainstream media for a start, as well as the education systems of most western countries.

        5. I see 3 movements, if we use that term. The PUA crowd, MGTOW, and the traditional conservative types.
          I am personally part of the last group, I don’t care about sex merely for its own sake. As I see it, the PUA people and the sluts and feminists all belong to the same crowd. They reinforce and enable eachothers behavior.
          On the other hand, while the appeal of MGTOW is obvious, it is an evolutionary dead end as a permanent lifestyle.
          We need to reproduce or we will die out. But the fact is that our women are, in essence, brain damaged beyond all repair. Family life is possible, but it will take generations before it becomes preferable again. If we are ever to repair the damage we have inflicted on ourselves then we must return to the traditional lifestyle, where men lead and women follow. The alternative is extinction.

        6. Sure they are. But ROK claims its a remedy to this poison. And I am not to sure about that.

        7. Sure its the slut and madonna complex at Work. But a rational male really needs to look beyond. And be far more honest about this.
          The backpacking man-whoring lifestyle is not for everyone. If to many men engage in this sort of lifestyle it will simply enhance the degeneracy further.
          They need to be more honest about this aspect. The cosmopolitan PUAs are only looking for sluts abroad. And their slut complaining is therefore quite pointless.

        8. Gamers go abroad because it’s “being from America” that gets them laid not so the Game. This is especially true in Eastern Europe.
          They hate western sluts as they can’t usually have them.

        9. Yes. I agree. I am also part of the conservative camp.
          PUAs are really a sort of strong reaction to feminists. They might as well jump on the bandwagon of cultural decline and make sure they get their rewards. Its individualism taken to the extreme. Every man for himself in the quest for pussy paradise.
          The MGTOW movement is an inversion of feminism. Playing on the same sort of victimology. Making out women to be evil and created with the sole purpose of tricking and deceiving men. Just like feminists who claim they can do without men. MGTOWs claim they can get by without women. As you state it is an evolutionary dead end, and will even further the destruction of society if taken to its logical conclusion.
          Both ideologies are quite nihilistic and short sighted.
          Traditionalism is the only long term solution. Only problem is how to get there. Even political action directed at this goal is very difficult at the present moment, since progressive ideology is so dominant and pervasive.

        10. Brilliantly articulated, well done! Agree 100%!
          PUAs and feminist are indeed made for each other. The latest interview where Roosh was interviewed by an outspoken feminist springs to mind. They were both flirting with each other while they were pretending they were in fact enemies.
          I’d go further saying, that the PUA movement is driven by the same forces that finance feminism.

        11. Perhaps. But then it is really just a rationalization. And this really says alot about Game. But then again I never bought into what it was cracked up to be.

        12. FYI. Most MGTOWs I know tried the conservative path or are burnt out PUAs. I personally did the marriage thing. My ex-wife was quite attractive, but in the end, she nearly destroyed me. The saving grace was not having any children with her.
          Many of the RoK crowd are young and very, very naive. They still think that having a family and children is a viable proposition, if only they use “game” on their wives. This philosophy is nothing short of deluded.
          Once your lovely, submissive wife is sick of her lot, all she needs to do is call the police and they will cuff you and throw you in prison. Game may buy you a few more years of marriage and seeing your kids, but in the end, it will only delay the inevitable.
          We’re circling the drain. Face the fact that traditionalism is dead and enjoy the decline. And don’t waste your time trying to pick up Indian girls – they’re ugly and they stink.

        13. I’ve read all your replies and would like to thank for raising these issues so well. It’s been something that’s been bothering me and I even got banned few times for expressing it.
          Your style of writing is far more moderate so you won’t propably get banned but who knows.

        14. Well you are most certainly welcome Ivan. And thats a really nice compliment since english is not even my first language.
          I really hope I will avoid getting banned, and I am disappointed by the fact that ROK would consider banning some one for expressing their opinion on such a vital matter.
          I need to look into the Roosh exchange with the feminist. Is it on his site or on YT?

        15. If men lead in a way that is mutually beneficial (to the partners in marriage for example) then there is no problem in that. The issue is that we have men who are as narcissistic and self-absorbed as the women they denigrate. Therein lies, at least one of, the problems.

        16. Many seem to think MGTOW is a permanent condition. They are simply boycotting a bad product. If the product improves, the men will return.

        17. Thanks for the link. I will probably watch it at a later time, since it looks like a pretty long video.
          In all fairness, its not surprising that a woman, even a feminist, would be attracted to a person like Roosh. He is after all an “alpha badboy”, so naturally women will become attracted.
          But I probably need to study it in detail to fully understand your point, but a causal glance reveals that their exchange was some what flirty.

        18. I hope you are right. Only problem is that when the customers return it will be to late for many of them.

        19. this.
          feminists and RoK are made for each other. they mirror each others behavior and try to justify it by whining „but they started first“. They are build upon the same premises.
          Making your own morals dependent of the morals of others is the epitome slave-morality in the nietzschean sense. It’s reaction instead of action. A strong person doesn’t care what others do, they stick to their own virtues.
          The psycho-analytical term for this is projection. Projection is also characteristic for anti-Semites and conspiracy theorists which might explain why there are so many of those in the comment section.

        20. If Roosh was an “Alpha Badboy”, he wouldn’t have gotten into the PUA thing at all. There would have been no need to.

        21. Alphas are often made, they are rarely born this way. He may have been a dorky nerd in his early twenties, but 10-15 years later he has transformed himself radically.

        22. Hey, don’t balk at the Betas that learned alpha game… I have a lot more respect for them than for ‘natural alphas’

        23. Personally I don’t really care if a woman is a slut. If I can get good sex, I don’t give a shit. I’m definitely not the conservative type. It’s live and let live for me just as long as my rights are not being infringed.

        24. I don’t think so. I’ve openly disagreed with some articles here and even dissed a few guys yet I still have my account.

        25. “feminists and RoK are made for each other.”
          the joker/batman dichotomy of the sexual marketplace, if you will.

        26. The failure comes from the type of woman. The only real solution, and I’ve been saying this all along, is to ditch the West entirely and get traditional women from highly religious countries, and *fucking live there for the rest of your life*. The West and everything it taints is beyond saving. As PUAs, we should be mindful and moral: screw a bunch of sluts and leave them wherever the society is fucked; be faithful to a wife wherever society has a chance. If we take that forbidden fruit of fucking the shit out of lots of traditional women, we poison the well for future generations, and our own sons won’t have anywhere to go (to escape cultural decline). We basically need to take the positive values we have from Western culture, get traditional Eastern women, and indoctrinate them and our children into those values. The West is going down, but we can salvage the important things, like freedom, rationality, and Christianity, and plant seeds in Eastern countries.

        27. Thank God I was born Alpha. Wait… if you have to say you are Alpha are you really Alpha? What a conundrum.

        28. I’ve read the way you talk about women – we might actually share a lot in common. I like the way you don’t hate them. It’s actually quite amazing how many of them don’t buy into this feminist shit. Pity we can’t discuss this over several pints.

        29. Oddly enough, I used to work as a consultant to large corporations. I dealt with a woman who organised mentor programs for senior managers. I asked her – are leaders born or can you make anyone a leader? her reply? ‘ Leaders are born leaders, some you can train to be a little like good leaders, or natural leaders, and most of them are wasting their time trying to become leaders, because they weren’t born as leaders.’
          You were born an alpha – you are an alpha – Game is just trying to pretend you’re an alpha.

        30. Well keep in mind that the contributors to this site are not philosophers and scientists (generally). They are just relatively clever guys giving their opinion and they don’t all agree on everything.
          You may not benefit from gaming advice but others might. There is also significantly useful advice on other topics being provided here. I think you worry a little too much about it.

        31. I don’t think PUA is a reaction to feminists at all. It is simply a pastime. Some guys like to shag a lot of women. They don’t think that deeply about it.

        32. Perhaps not for the majority who buy into it.
          But if you read a certain segment of PUAs like Roosh and his followers, anti-feminism is a pretty big deal.

        33. Well sure I could just say fuck it and just not care. Just think of it as cheap entertainment.
          But this would some how go against the general philosophy of this site. Its functon is to act like a safe Space for men free from the poisoning culture of PC. This in addition to advice given for self improvement.
          Thats all good. But then there is also alot of “ironic” advice given, like “how to bang in country X”. And this just confuses the issue. Some articles are clearly of a more serious nature than others.
          This is an editorial choice which I dont agree with. Does ROK want to be serious or just be another postmodern hipster site generating traffic? You need to make a choice.
          Perhaps I am to serious, who knows. The feedback I have received on various comments, especially pertaining to this article, suggests otherwise. There seem to be many ROK readers who agree with me more or less.
          And yes alot of the writers on this site are just smart guys givng anecdotally informed advice. And this is a problem, this forces you to double check all the advice and remain quite sceptical, wasting lots of time in the process. Might as well read a serious source in the first place instead.
          You might not be a philosopher or scientist by training, but you still need to check for logical consistency. This is really just basic stuff.

        34. Well Jannik, you are a pretty intelligent and articulate man and I think this is a good forum for competing ideas. Perhaps they will accept an article from you proposing different ideas (which I will then disagree with in the comments section 🙂 ).

        35. Well thank you Bob. I do enjoy our exchange of ideas and conversation, even the occasional banter and trolling on your part. 🙂
          The thought has crossed my mind that maybe I am just not on the right site. But I think its better to stay in a place and try to come up with constructive criticism instead of running away.
          I just hate the idea of all the young guys flokking to this site and being mislead by weird ideas or information which is very inaccurate.
          Time to think about ideas for articles…

        36. You are most certainly on the right site. Your initial comment echoed my thoughts, but much more articulate than I could have done it. Please, stick around.

        37. Mate I love women and I forgive all their sins. There is no place in my heart for hate. Do I hate my mother, my sister and my niece? Impossible. What I think is that they are imperfect creatures as are we and we should proceed accordingly.
          Maybe we can PM somehow and arrange those pints…

        38. Thanks I appreciate that.
          This is my hunch as well. That a significant amount of readers fail to see the consistency in the underlying PUA ideology.
          I just wish there was more quality control in the article outlet. The quality is very mixed , and is pretty much scattered all over the place theme wise. Only unifying element seems to be that it is male-centric and un PC.
          To avoid this place turning into a male version of Jezebel the edito(s) need to step in a select a bit more harshly. Just some of the advice gven on weigth training/fitness recently was quite controversial, and not something I could recognize from the fitness articles I read on more pro sites.
          I would prefer a higher academic standard in the writing, and perhaps a bit less cocky entertaining tone in the articles. Many of the articles are well written. On the other hand, many of them sadly lack substance.
          If these recommendations were to be implemented, it would probably scare of some readers. But so what. Appealing to the lowest common denominator was never the purpose of this site. Integrity is much more important in the long run.

        39. This is a far more sane stance towards women. Far removed from the hypocrisy of the PUAs or the hatred that MGTOWs espouse.
          “imperfect creatures”. I like that expression.

        40. As a guy that learned game only as a way to maintain relationships and manipulate the occasional woman placed in responsibility over me (never had a problem getting laid) I hurt my own feelings 🙂

        41. “On the other hand, while the appeal of MGTOW is obvious, it is an evolutionary dead end as a permanent lifestyle.”
          This is true in the “Big Picture” way of looking at things… the only problem being that barely any humans live in “The Big Picture” but rather in “The Small Picture” that is their own personal lives.
          All around the internet, you can see people pining for the public to “wake up” and “do what’s best.” Thinking everyone’s altruistic spirit will overcome all their other desires.
          What delusional thinking. Humans, like all other living organisms on this earth, are naturally selfish first and foremost.
          Why has MGTOW and the PUA-sphere taken off so much in the past few years? Because they both offer personal solutions for men’s lives.
          Why have tradcons lost so much ground over the past decades? Because our culture has over-run the idea of being good for religious reasons (Many anthropologists surmise that religion is the only thing powerful enough to overcome natural selfishness… ie. only the selfishness of not wanting to burn in hell is enough to motivate unselfish behaviour.)
          The truth is that most people – if not all people – are selfish first and foremost… yet our Christian-based society still extolls the virtues of not being selfish (in order to selfishly gain acceptance into the kingdom of heaven).
          The other thing we all do, after basic survival, is live for our own joy. Even philosophically, this was the end conclusion that Tolstoy reached. When you give “altruistically” you are still doing so for selfish reasons – ie. to make yourself feel good, or to reinforce your own self-perception of you being a good person… in other words, for selfish reasons.
          But now, we are supposed to sacrifice the better part of our joyous lives for “evolution?”
          WTF does evolution mean in sexual reproduction, anyway? (Not to mention it’s still only a THEORY) That is what you should live for? So some sperm monkey 10,000 years from now bears your DNA? That’s SOME happiness alright, but it ain’t one I’m really gonna be too concerned about during my short 80yrs on this planet.
          People yack about “the big picture” all the time, without realizing the only way the big picture even occurs is because of millions and billions of “small pictures” making up the mosaic.
          If you want to motivate people to “change society,” you have to start with individual improvement, rather than societal improvement – because people are naturally selfish.
          Show me how to get off minimum wage and make $100,000/yr starting up a business that will change MY life, and I will listen.
          Tell me that I SHOULD start up a business so that the USA will continue to prosper and dominate, and I will yawn… and then yawn some more.
          Same goes for social mores and social structures. Show me a woman-type worth marrying, that benefits my personal life, and I will be interested in marrying her.
          Yapping about “evolutionary dead ends” for my 10,000 year down-the-road great grandchildren if I don’t “man up and marry one of them sluts” hits me very low on the priorities list in what personally benefits my life.

        42. No matter how hard you try to defend the traditional gender roles but the fact is they are not going to return anytime in future.

        43. We really dont know.
          If you study the historical record you wil notice that gender roles were very different in the western world less than 50 years ago. The gender roles might not return exactly to what they were 50 years ago in the future.
          But it is far from obvious that current gender roles will remain the same in the future.

        44. MGTOW is not meant to be a permanent lifestyle. Its just a necessary evil at this point to stop the dead end of western civilization. MGTOWs is necessary due to a combination of Laws, social norms and biology. It is unavoidable. Pretending that mankind has a chance with the state of those three factors will surely bring about our demise. Go read up on the mouse utopia experiment. And why should men singularly care about the long term needs of mankind. Let Obama, the government and the feminists who vote them in worry about that. The only thing we can do is to react to these factors.

        45. I disagree. The ONLY way to force western women to become more attractive is to boycott them and not give them any attention. Once you’ve seen how green it is on the other side, there is simply NO GOING BACK. You will never look at western women the same again. The quality is so much better, on average, that you’ll do anything you have to to go back for more.
          That is not to say that foreign women are all perfect and western women are all bad. I hate when I read someone on here saying something like “oh those girls in Colombia!! All they want is a green card!” or “I married a Ukrainian girl and she left me and took my money!” Likewise, if a good western woman happens to land on my footstep one day, I’m not going to dismiss her just on the account that she’s American. I know there’s still some good women out there.
          So it isn’t THAT black and white. There’s going to be some of these women with very perverse and malice intentions. But on average it is still so much better to go foreign. It just takes a little common sense and experience to filter out the bad ones.

        46. It’s really just being in a better and healthier social culture that makes men happier abroad. The U.S. is the most materialistic, consumerist, depressed, dumbed-down, and obese nation on the planet. People are trapped in the corporate rat race and always in a hurry and never have time for quality conversation or to say hi to a stranger.
          Foreign women are a product of this healthier social culture.

        47. I’ve been on this site for about 2 years and I agree with you that there is no consistent red-pill philosophy other than acknowledging the glaring sexual differences between men and women… that feminists seem to ignore…
          Other than that you’ve got articles on how to attract women, how to lift weights, employment, sports, history, psychology, the sky is falling… whatever… And each individual author and commenter comes with their own life experience and personal background.
          I read RoK for the smattering of ideas and I try to make sense of it myself. Occasionally I come across an article or comment that really speaks to me and gives me something new to think about.
          I see what you’re saying about the PUA vs. traditionalism issue. I think a lot of the wiser guys can be trusted with this but some of the younger more impressionable guys might be just totally confused. Something to note is that the world has changed quite a bit from when Roosh wrote his first book Bang. Cellphone culture was only beginning… Now women practically control the whole media and world by showing off their asses. Also I agree with EnglishBob that PUAs are not the root cause of the breakdown of traditionalism and virtue. But if everyone became a PUA that wouldn’t work either.

        48. What are you exactly comparing, American vs. non- US women? Or western vs. non-western? Western women, and I am referring to the different European women, are different in many ways compared to women in the US. The western and non-western dichotomy is much to simplified and masks a great deal of variation within these categories.
          Though you are correct that many non-western women on average are more traditional compared to western women, cross cultural marriages create many problems as well.
          I personally come from a small Scandinavian country, and have had the opportunity to look at the marriage data. The divorce rate is significantly higher among mixed couples, especially if one party is of non-European ancestry. This is not surprising, since communal ties are much weaker between the families. In addition cultural differences will start to Express themselves more clearly, once the economics of family and household start to dominate the relationship.
          I therefore do not remain convinced that foreign is on average better. Rather its just different. Its a trade-off between different sorts of problems Associated with western or non western relationships.

        49. Yes offcourse PUAs are not the root cause of the breakdown. They are not much more than a fringe movement really.
          What they are however is a symptom of the decadence of society. They are actively spreading the degeneracy further. And also spreading ideas of mysogyny under the guise of realism. Women just like men remain imperfect creatures. This should be the main message. One needs to strike an adequate balance here. All to often ROK goes way overboard painting women as ugly monsters. This portrayel is simply out of touch with reality, and not the least bit constructive.
          This is why I cant really take them seriously as any sort of rolemodel. They are part of the problem, and I dont think they are having a positive effect on the people visiting these sites. If a large share of guys were to become PUAs, a “tragedy of the commons” situation would arise, undermining the lifestyle in the process.
          The PUAs deep down dont believe a situation like this would arise however. Because they dont believe that anyone can become a PUA. Game is only part of the equation, no doubt a useful Tool, but it doesnt cover all important aspects that make an Alpha type man.
          Status, Money, looks and to some degree also age, are hugely important to.
          The PUA gaming lifestyle is only made for a select few. Its an elite lifestyle at its core. In my experience the PUAs are not being very honest about this aspect when they are trying to sell thousands of books premised on the idea that anyone can become a gamer.
          They are selling Young guys a pipe dream, and in many instances also giving out quite bad or contradictory advice.
          In addition, much of it is not based on solid science. I might as well look into the scientific literature on social psychology instead.
          I suppose this is unavoidable when a PUA literature fad arises, and many scammers start looking for business opportunities. The problem is that this Development has poisoned the field. The more solid advice is simply drowned out among the noise.
          Roosh is perhaps one of the most honest among the bunch. His storytelling is fairly credible, and his writing style engaging.
          But I would never advise any young guy in his twenties to take up this sort of lifestyle. When you practice this sort of lifestyle for many years you become a rootless existence, with a Cold and superficial approach to women. I view it as quite a destructive lifestyle.
          Then again I never read his books as some sort of advice. I read it for pure entertainment, and perhaps a curiosity for cross-cultural differences. And this should perhaps be the main advice given: dont take this sort of literature to seriously. It is a business after all.

        50. I dated girls long before I discovered the “red pill.”
          A lot of what these game-practitioners are saying is not totally wrong in my opinion. When you deal with women and see what they like and what they don’t like it becomes obvious that a lot of this PUA material rings true. I also think that a lot of what the PUAs are spreading however is what used to be considered common sense.
          The feminization of the west actually does seem like a real issue from my point of view. Especially these consistent subtle changes to the laws and freedoms (i.e., “Yes Means Yes”). Divorce court is for example far more insidious than Roosh’s brand of Self-Help, even if Roosh is turning a profit.
          I see your point and I acknowledge it. When you go too far the other way and cease to see women as human beings it is like the pot calling the kettle black. Even Roosh laments occasionally that he is getting burnt out from his lifestyle. I certainly don’t feel the need to “get notches” as the sole motivating force of my life… That is absurd…
          I think some of the more lucid authors on this site understand that and some have even commented on it. Honestly I think a lot of the more lucid work of RoK came out more than a year ago.
          My position is that marriage has simply become way too risky. Until I am in a financial/social/economic position to avoid the blunders of modern marriage, I don’t really see the option other than to date women casually and focus on myself.
          In my late 20s I’m folding my cards and waiting for the right time to place my bets. If you’ve got suggestions on the right way to go about things I’m all ears, but as far as I can tell dealing with women in the traditional way is actually becoming more and more risky.

        51. I can’t say I know much about women of western or northern europe.. although I did spend an entire week in London and did not see one attractive woman. It was worse than the U.S. But that’s just London so I don’t know.
          I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I find it hard to believe that guys who are marrying East Asian women are getting divorced more often than marrying domestic women… but again, I’m not even really thinking about LTR much these days. The number one cause of divorce is marriage. All I know is that foreign women are much more enjoyable to talk to and spend time with (if they know a little English)..

        52. Fair enough. English girls are not known for being very attractive, so your eyes are probably not lying to you.
          On the continent things are different. The point is that there is a lot of variation in both looks and attitudes in western women.
          The cross cultural differences are very real indeed, and I would be surprised if the stats are different in other western nations regarding marriage and divorce.
          Gamers often gloss over this fact in their quest for pussy paradise.
          One just has to be prepared for a load of cultural baggage when getting involved with foreign non-western women for LTR.
          This includes norms regarding privacy, sexual roles, extended family involvement, child upbringing and probably many other issues.
          Think of it as practicing “diversity” in the private sphere. In the public or in the collective realm diversity doesnt work out that well. Why should it be any different in the private realm?

        53. Dear ROK,
          Complete Vague info.
          First of all, the pics of women posted here are Bollywood actress, yeah
          right, “that ridiculous boy meets girl, falls in love, goes to epic extent
          to get her, not failing to mention the heroic stupid B.S he does to get her and
          end in a whole fucking big family, beta lifestyle”.
          Yep, that’s India for you, millions of men and women mirror these shit in
          real life – name it businessman, IT slaves, BPO dudes, any 9-5 working schmuck!
          fancy this shit, no wonder Bollywood churns out huge revenue for so called Actors
          n actress who mirror Hollywood star lifestyles.
          Now, coming back to topic, Indian women (Lets leave out the non-classy,
          salwar khameez wearing, traditional, fatties, and the 85% out). The rest, 2% of
          hot 18-24 horny women flood clubs n bars, do weed, get drunk and want to sleep
          with that Alpha cocks whether white or black or India, the rest 8% are 30+
          pushing 40 something MILF’s, divorced, single mom looking for a nice white
          young beta American to date, n pull him into LTR’s – she has steady supply of cocks
          to pick n choose from 98% of the beta-men out in the bars and clubs. Yeah and
          then the remaining 5% ugly bitches who frequent bars, mostly pro feminist,
          advocating shit, and calling the rest of the sexually active and free women
          sluts and polluting the club culture with loud laughing, bad mouthing and Adam
          teasing, iphone fetish, rich spoiled daddy issue girls.
          Btw that’s just a refresher, India mirror’s NY or Calif. by all means, US
          catches a cold, India would sneeze. Women here are wired the same, just that
          they are programmed to meet, shit test, betadize and LTR men without the
          hard-work of being in shape, playing good game, having least amount of sex,
          (yes refraining from sex is how she will break u down) n then owning your ass
          for a lifetime. things don’t work out she will call u a creep, spoil ur social
          life, flood the social media, abt misogynist, patriarchy, and how
          you advocate it, and turn the entire 98% of beta worshippers to cock block
          you. Play tight game, escalate for same night sex, more the chance u get her,
          the lesser she knows u.
          Good luck my white brethren.
          I’m just hitting on that, turns me on, respects me and yields to me whether
          Indian or foreigner ;)! Seen lot of wasted pushing 40’s white women hang out
          with successfully keepers at least 10 yrs younger to them. Indian needy men are
          attracting these retired pussy for reliving their Hollywood lives;) No
          Offences, my 2 cents! Cheers!
          P.s: leave the street game out, if u’r lucky to nail some 20’s
          something virgin, n she falls in love with you, expect her full family at your
          hotel door step for justice, leave alone rape n cheating charge sheet filed
          against you in the local police. You don’t want to become a head-lines in the
          beasty news crazy feminist run Media horseshit.

        54. That traditionalism you’re deriding still obviously exists on a massive scale and seems to be pretty important, structurally, for a healthy society.
          And I think you’re wrong about Indian girls – at least the ones in India. Unhygenic students who emigrate to the States to study do not speak for the entire demographic. But, they aren’t worth it anyways, because of the sick modern culture.

        55. But patriarchy and traditional sex roles has been played out, it’s so boring.

        56. So…in other words, breed out the greatness of the Europeans? You really are drinking the Kool Aid.

      2. What you say here is bollocks. There is a natural drive here for men to spread their seed. You also exaggerate women’s “degenerate behaviour”. Very few of them actually display the behaviour you suggest.
        Furthermore, it could be said that pumping and dumping actually punishes promiscuous behaviour since women generally hate being used.
        What leads to degenerate behaviour by women is the support of feminism by male feminists like you.
        You need to stop with your self-hate.

        1. Short answer: Yes. Slightly longer answer: The Brits are more histrionic than most westerners.

        2. What? That you are a moron of the 1st fucking order? Either that or you are the worst troll ever. You’re welcome. =)

        3. I agree here. I don’t knock on women for wanting to have sex with guys. A healthy woman in her fertile years should have a sex drive. Any guy who says otherwise has never felt a girl’s pussy through her yoga pants while making out and felt it soaked. It’s soaked because she’s fucking horny! Yup, women have a sex drive too! I have tried dating really conservative women, some of which whom were also very attractive, but the problem is that they are really no better than sluts. Most of them would probably NEVER get on her knees and give you a blowjob even if you were married. What guy wants that? A blowjob free marriage just so you can say you married a virgin?
          No way. A lot of these guys think they want a pure virginal bride but in reality it would not fill their own emotional void and they would still be just as unhappy and miserable. I just want a girl who’s classy enough not to shout “OMG Derek Jeter! I’d so fuck him!” at the bar.. and dress modestly in public. A lady in the streets and a freak in the sheets baby!

    5. Its not contradictory. Traditional indian culture is caste society closed to outsiders. If an indian female is not westernized to some degree, you’re not getting in.

      1. So I am not “getting in” if an indian female is either traditional of westernized. What exactly is your point?

        1. I don’t see the inconsistency. The OP wrote:
          ‘You’ll only want to approach young Indian women who are dressed very fashionably, because this signals the possibility that they are “modern” and aren’t stuck in an 18th century mindset.’
          What that means is if she’s traditional, she’s socializing according to family traditions. You don’t have a chance. Stop wasting time. If she’s more westernized she’s more receptive to playing around with non-indian guys sometimes.

        2. The inconsistency is not due to women being easier or harder caused by them being more or less traditional or westernized.
          This is not my point. My point is all the PUA gamers complaining about slutty behaviour in western countries, but then travelling to foreign countries encouraging women to act slutty in their presence.

        3. A traditional hindu female isn’t easier or harder to game. She’s off limits. Doesn’t matter if you convert to hindu, you’re still not going to be in her family’s caste. The only option as non-indian male is to find indian females open to western culture influences. There are different degrees of that westernization, depending on the individual female and her amount of exposure to the west. Its up to you as a male to have the social intelligence to determine which types you want to game. If you don’t want to fish in that pond with that bait, stay home.

        4. Well I do agree with that point, and this is my problem with article.
          I am personally not interested in going to India to game women. This is not my point
          But some PUAs are interested, and what they are seeking is naturally westernized indian women. But then they complain about the destructive westernization of foreign countries.
          Its the hypocrisy I am hinting at.
          India is just an example. Might aswell have inserted any other non-western country.

        5. People can read the exact same thing and interpret it differently. I didn’t find anything about traveling to india for the purpose of gaming women. Men travel now for all kinds of reasons. Maybe your company sends you there for a few months or a few years to solve a problem. Maybe you’re going there for adventure travel. You still have human needs that don’t get left behind when you get your passport stamped. Western males find asian females an alternative to the feminist bitch face, and obesity epidemic they left at home. I don’t see any inconsistencies in that, whether asian females go see an american movie once a month or not doesn’t make them american.

        6. You got to be kidding me. The title says “How To Game Indian Girls In India”. This is all about gaming Indian girls.
          Perhaps you are not interested in this aspect, but this does not imply that there isnt a message associated with the article.
          I acknowledge that there are many reasons for going to India. But if one wants to game in India, one should not complain about these women being cheap skanks. The point is not to encourage the behaviour which you despise.

        7. Read your own previous comments. You are the one trapped in your own thought logic about “going to India to game women”. People go to India for other reasons other than getting laid. But once a person leaves their own country they have no obligation to embrace celibacy. I don’t see anyone encouraging anything, except how to read the nuances of a different culture. Women who are easy to lay are already like that for their own reasons, whether she fucks a foreigner or a local guy. Sounds like you haven’t got that awareness yet. There’s no contradiction, except in your own mind.

        8. You are aware that Roosh, the person who established this site, is the author of numerous travel guides titled “Bang country X”?
          The featured articles are very much inspired by these books.
          I am sure people travel to many different destinations, for many differenr reasons, including India. But if a gaming guide isnt encouragement, I dont know what is.
          Women are not necessarily easy to game before the gamer arrives. In some places, like several muslim countries, most of the women are off limits. In other places the women are just very young, and just as gullible as young beta males travelling abroad for the first time. They have limited sexual experience and some of them are even virgins before the foreign gamer comes along. Hence the reason why they are highly prized by gamers.
          “Sounds like you haven’t got that awareness yet.”
          Yeah sure.
          Several years ago I actually fucked a virgin while travelling abroad. In hindsight I gamed her really good. Although it was great sex, its not something I am particularly proud of today.
          And that was before the concept of game was developed by the PUA industry.

    6. The logic is completely utilitarian, just like women who slut it around with “bad boys” and then magically “change taste” for betas who will finance the life style they are used to without putting as much sexual eagerness as they once did with bad boys
      Men Were sold this blue pill BS about women being angels, which isn’t true. However, most men on this site, whether PUA or MGTOW or Conservative would only marry a “nice girl” (virgin or low N-count) If they wanted to raise family and children. In the meanwhile, they’re merely “retaliating” against the alpha-bucks-beta-bucks Strategy (or were always hedonistic and not anti-feminist, but to be a true player and well-rounded man that attractd women, it’s better tomunderstand the whole picture rather than focusing merely on gambits for attraction). This may indeed “spread degeneracy”, but it’s a way of weeding out the good ones from the bad ones too. If that means social decline is guaranteed, then so be it, that’s why some at RoK embrace the motto “enjoy the decline”. If we can’t get our nice girl we were allegedly promised by society, then we might as well enjoy ourselves somehow.
      As for the conservative or libertarian message of some of RoK’s articles, I think it is consistent with its anti-feminist attitudes; we either endorse personal responsibility (no more free lunch for women and any other marxist “class”), or we endorse patriarchal culture because it ensured that men (and women) got what they needed to be happier than in today’s west.
      I don’t think it is contradictory at all. I think it is perfectly consistent if you understand red-pill “philosophy”.

      1. Alpha-bucks-beta-bucks strategy is not something new. It’s been found that throughout the human history, 80% of women have reproduced compared to almost half of that for men.
        Women’s evolutionary role is exactly that -ensuring the health of the species. Women choose the alpha men for reproduction because we carry better genes. The betas’ evolutionary role is to help raise the offspring. Some scientist explain homosexuality following this line of thinking – they allow for better, more masculine genes to reproduce.
        Patriarchy and misogyny have been the tools men have invented to deal with this “paradox” and perhaps one of the reasons why the world population has grown up so rapidly. Too many beta men have been given the chance to to breed, which is perhaps the reason why there are too many short, fat and sick people around.

        1. Patriarchy was “invented” by men, or rather, it naturally arose as a consequence of the difference between men and women. As for alpha-bucks-beta-bucks, it is true that it has always existed; the objection here at RoK is that pop culture portrays women as incapable of applying such strategies while condemning men and singling men out as the only ones capable of such deception, when all the social ills that have been brought thanks in great part to feminism and other spawns of cultural marxism prove it’s the opposite. So, if we’re going to acknowledge the hypergamy strategy as ethical, which the law system does as a matter of fact in the west, then, for the sake of the “fairness” that feminazis claim to fight for, then funds should be diverted towards developing a pill for men, legalizing polygamy, stop shaming men for having multiple partners and all masculine desires. In the end, feminist proponents will only undermine the “equality” they’re so hard trying to promote; many men will have (legally or illegally) multiple children with multiple different women, and even more men will die lonely. No woman will ever get the commitment she desires. This could only be maintained through the taxes paid by betas that favor single moms, and the few alphas that got to father said children. This is why you either “enjoy the decline” and become as close as possible to an alpha through self-improvement, or fight to end the matriarchy, or for “equality” via MRA, or go MGTOW (or a combo of all of these).

        2. What an alpha was in the past compared to what an alpha is today are two different things. Plus now days you have women having sex with alphas but reproducing with betas due to birth control an wanting a beta provider.

        3. lol patriarchy was ‘invented’ by men like ant hills were invented by ants. it’s the natural order of things. well, except when you have 24/7 mainstream media shouting “grrl power!” and “rape!”. then all bets are off.
          show me a successful, long lasting matriarchy. you can’t. and the more women are put in positions of power in the u.s., the more society will fray at the seams. watch for it.

        4. They are not two different things. Alpha man is confident, strong and assertive. Alpha men are not likely to stay around looking for kids for too long. It’s always been like that.

        5. The character traits of what an alpha is never change but being a the head of the family an supporting them was what alphas did back in the day, guys back then didn’t act alpha they just were. Being masculine was the norm wasn’t even questioned or something you had to fake. Now days what is considered alpha is different. Roosh did an article on it once but I forgot the name of it.

        6. This Society can only last for so long…The gov’t and media desperately trying to find structure.. our citizens coming on with all types of “behavior problems” and “anxieties”… Maybe we should’ve kept our “patriarchs” ho ho ho

      2. I think your explanation makes sense. But then PUAs should not complain about the pervasive sluttiness in society. They come across as hypocrites when they do it
        The “enjoy the decline” motto sadly says alot about this ideology. Its an active attempt at furthering the destruction of society.
        And the whoring around lifestyle really acts like a rationalization for the percieved anti-male injustices in modern society.
        You are probably right, the ideology is deep down utilitarian. Or more correctly a version of hedonistically oriented individualism. Its all about personal satisfaction of preferences, and less about cultural critique. Its another version of liberalism at its core, when you strip away all the anti-feminist anger.
        Now I fully understand why so many men are angry at feminists and have an aversion towards the reigning ideology of society.
        But PUA is not constructive in the long run, and it will just further the cultural poisoning of society.
        I really dont understand what the PUA endgame is either. What do they expect will happen when society has become fully toxic, rendering their bags of tricks and gimmicks obsolete?
        Or do they really care deep down?

        1. I have actually wondered exactly that, but I’m at a point where I’m really jaded. I don’t think there’s anyone worth settling down for in the parts of the world where life is worth living. The women that just may have that live in parts of the world that I have zero interest in moving to or have lifestyles that I’d have to adopt, like more religious than I am by several orders of magnitude, which I refuse to do. I feel resignated to living the single life meeting women online, through singles groups, social networks and a few cold approaches, but ultimately refusing to settle because I don’t view any of them With an ounce of worth as far as marriage or permanent commitment goes, let alone raising children. It is also a bit depressing because it may mean no offspring for me, and I’m in the dilemma of getting a vasectomy or being forced to pay child support for unwanted children. This is my experience, if it’s worth for explaining my complete understanding and agreement with the ideology. Basically, I’m enjoying the decline because I feel I have no other choice. I don’t feel like I’m ruining women because I’m not responsible for their choices, and the only women whose virginity I took happened way before I took the red-pill and in relationships that were long-term (so I personally don’t feel like I’m ruining the world more than it has been for a while, I’m merely “scavenging” from a place that can’t be improved; feel free to disagree)

        2. They care about the pussy notches, thats it.
          The cultural critique is not well thought out, and comes across as a lame attempt at morally justifying their lifestyle.

    7. You sir, are a pioneer in critical thinking. You are wright, but not all articles here are focused on banging sluts, take Quintus Qurtious’s articles and many others which give you a taste for the filosopher’s stone and the Michellangello Buonarotti’s touch of God in them. But concerning for a large rest you are wright, unfortunately for ROK.
      Cheers and way to go for the critical !

      1. Well thank you, and cheers to you to.
        But I am pretty sure I am less of a pioneer, and was just putting into words what many other readers are thinking.
        And yes you are offcourse right that there are many other articles worth reading focusing on other aspects of self improvement and culture.
        I was just focusing on the achilles heel of this site.

    8. It’s an umbrella site of anti-feminists, or self-aware males. That manifests itself in multiple and branching ways.

    9. It’s just one article. Given the context, there is not much else you can do in India unless you want to marry one of these ‘saree’ hoes.

    10. The author clearly points out that Indian women “are not angels.” Thus, he’s paying a higher price for a cheap product. The same quality product he can attain in the west but for a cheaper price.
      Take it from a dude who despises what the western world has become but comes from a place very similar to what the author described.
      + 90% of indian women are gross looking. IDK what’s the thing with this page and ‘exotic’ women. Philippine chicks… god damn it dudes. I get the traditional values but damn, their teeth are always jacked.

      1. My critique does not depend on indian women being “angels”. Women are not angels in any place on this planet.
        My only point is that PUAs should not complain about the transitioning into sluttyness in various countries in the developing World, when they themselves are spreading this sort of lifestyle themselves.
        If they want to screw around that is their choice. But they should not be hypocrites about it.

      2. jacked teeth are easy to fix with braces in comparison to the problems a western woman has

    11. I think it’s because if a man still has hopes of being married he wants a girl that isn’t just going sleep with a guy who throws some good game at her. So in a way bringing the pump am dump behavior to another country is testing the waters, kind of like a male shit test I guess. Plus a lot of players don’t care about culture being degenerate or finding a good woman they just wanna have a good time. That’s the best way I can rationalize it.

      1. The gamers are falsely lead to believe that they can just have a good time but once they reach a certain age, they will crave to start a family and have children. It’s inevitable. The eternal bachelors are a very rare breed.
        I see signs in the latest Roosh’s post that he’s already burnt out by his playboy lifestyle but his male hamster will not allow him to follow his heart.

        1. I don’t disagree with you but I’d say the majority of family men I know arn’t actually happy either. I’ve decided I don’t wanna have kids a while back so I guess I’m running the gauntlet an hoping those feelings don’t change when I’m older.

    12. This is true, when you have too many hunters or really effienct hunters(espically with game getting more mainstream). We are gonna ruin society if we dont adapt.
      Game should only be used on cultures that are open to sex,westernized or slutty non virgins.
      I really dont like the idea of pumpin and dumpin chaste conservative girls.
      Otherwise we ruin the pot of good women, why do you think men in india or turkey or korea among others, cockblock players especially western foreign players. We are just some virus thatll ruin their future brides or they wont marry and the country could suffer in the long term and wind up like us.
      Game needs to be done responsbily. We shouldnt game virgins or those from conservative nations. Last thing we want is create more of the thing we hate. Its a some what crab bucket mindset that we cant have good women and so we ruin someone elses. When I game I avoid those good girls, I want them to be “innocent”. because a jaded women is a damaged women and theyll influence other women.
      If shes non virgin and/or from a culture that has no hang ups on sex then I say go for it. Those are our mondern day brothels. And if we choose to marry then we adjust accordingly and find a good venue like argentina maybe?

      1. Yes exactly.
        I fully understand why the guys in these less corrupted countries are aggressively cockblocking. Its is not just reducible to more competition or fear of outsiders. There is more to this. They know that sex turists are cultural poison, screwing up gender relations further, and creating a climate of hedonism and manipulation.
        Just look at a country like Thailand, which has virtually turned into a whorehouse.
        I am not to sure about the moral of pumping and dumping western corrupted women exclusively. I understand that a man has sexual urges, and I understand that its increasingly difficult to find material suited to LTR. But I still think that this should be the chosen path.
        Still trying to go traditional, not necessarily marrying, as this is some what dangerous under the present cimcumstances. But forming stable long term relationships is part of life. You loose out on a lot of things in life if you only focus on short term pump and dump.

        1. ya it should be encouraged if a girl has her hymen instead of shamin her even western minded ones. its possible in those non western countries since the westernized ones are a minority and females have heard mentality.
          if i meet a good foreign girl thats been westernized i try to crush by sayin the worst of ours n the best of theres kinda like a leftist.

        1. yes but rember he was deflowering western girls eager to lose it like a teenage boy. too bad as a culture we think as selfish individuals instead of as a strict cultral group like korea or turkey. too many selfish hedonists will ruin the culture. may as well take the v card cuz someone else will take it not protect and praise her for it

        2. sadly, but I feel we are only encouraging this behaviour when scavenge for whats left in this sexual wasteland and thus making it worse. I think shame is the way to go but also praising them if they can keep it,since women are egotistic like that. They totally want a trophy for everything.
          I can see why back in our masculine days, we put a standard of women being chaste if they want to be wives while we just played in the brothels for those that dont want to.

        3. It sounds like a whole lot of hypocrisy to me.
          But it is more or less as I suspected. Virgins are highly prized in the PUA community.
          And Roosh and several others have no moral qualms about actively corrupting virgins, making them their sex dolls in the process.
          PUAs seem to be nothing more than egomaniacs, who just dont give a damn about the consequences of their actions.
          All the slut shaming and cultural critique rings very hollow when your own lifestyle is diametrically opposed to the norms you endorse.

        4. Yes I agree .
          But what Roosh is advocating is not praise of the virgin.
          He is actively giving advice on how to game and corrupt virgins for his own satisfaction.
          There will in every society always be a subset of whores and prostitutes. The objective however is to keep this segment to a minimum. And this is regrettably not what I see PUAs endorsing.
          PUAs are a problem just like feminists. Perhaps not as big a problem as feminists, as they are far less numerous. But still a problem nevertheless.

        5. Indeed. The irony is that they say their behaviour is a response to women’s promiscuity. They copy what women do and yet they claim they are alphas and virtuous.

        6. totally agree. if want to change this. we have to mate guard the females we know and shame anyone that wants to pump n dump a virgin. if hes pursing aveelationship thats fine.
          we are like lil scavangers that are kinda pyshin the buttons of dying society. if there was any testosrerone left in our society guys kike us would get jumped for gunning these good girls.
          but western virgins im kinda on the fence with however since our cultre is quickly tryin to make them into whores.
          think roosh at the time was thinkin short term. now that its gotten bigger now students can become masters. a gentlemens agreement of puas has to be made on whos gamable

        7. Yes I think he is perhaps beginning to have second thoughts. I am of a similar age as him, so I know the thought patterns change when you start getting older. He is perhaps less psycho in his pursuit of pussy at the age of 35, compared to age 25. Maybe his thirst is starting to become quenched. Who knows.
          There is really no good reason for deflowering a virgin . That is unless you plan on taking it furher it in a LTR.
          A gentlemans agreement sounds noble. A better solution would however be for guys to make LTR a priority. This means changing the mind set, so you always view the target girl you are gaming as a potential partner. This is my own mindset. Mini or long term relationships are always more fulfilling, at least in my experience. And I have thought this way since I was a wee lad of 20 years old.
          The lifestyle that Roosh and his likeminded PUAs have devloped is just insane in my opinion. To be frank, he comes across as being slightly psycho in the way he talks about the various women he has met. Cold, detached and cynical.
          I thought for myself if his behaviour or lifestyle is anything I woud like to emulate. And after giving it some thought I have concluded that he really isnt that great of a rolemodel. After all, would you like your daughter, niece or other close family to get involved wih this kind of guy? Any one with a conscience or with moral integrity would clearly answer in the negative.

        8. very good points. I think the only reason I have this value is due to my conservative up bringing then rebeled to be western and “free” then went back and inadvertantly found roosh. The cynical and detached, I dont mind since its good not to get hurt or needy….until its offical with the girl. Her emotions should move faster then yours.
          But yes gaming needs to be disciplined we cant be vultures all around. We should be like turkish men. We game hard for those sluts, but be gentlemen with the good girls. And we fill our brothers in on misconduct on their women are with,so they dont fool men. The more we do this the more theyll think about their actions and once again feel shame….like a normal person would not like a psycho.

    13. Guys in the manosphere are torn between two incompatible impulses. On the one hand there is the drive to repair our broken civilization and set society back on a sane and sustainable path. On the other hand, many men often despair that this is possible and so resolve simply to make the most of a terrible situation. If I have to live in the last days of a dying, degenerate civilization, I might as well grab my share of the fun before the party ends, so the logic goes anyway.
      If I had to say which of these drives was the strongest, I would say it was the latter. The former mostly takes the form of just wistful reminiscence, there isn’t really much behind it. I know in my own life I can occasionally summon up some semblance of determination to hold some line or other. Maybe it’s calling out a woman for her slutty behaviour, maybe it’s explaining to a friend that breaking your sworn word is actually not at all acceptable. Maybe it’s something as simple as protesting the expletive laden, vulgar strings of profanity that pass for everyday speech. Whatever it is, I am not foolish enough to imagine that these spurts of resolve suffice even to make my little corner of the world more civilized in any real or consistent sense. It’s done out of exasperation more than anything, the surrounding culture is just so sick that trying to be anything else feels like trying to construct a sandcastle in the middle of a sandstorm.
      When guys talk about ending the current cultural cesspool I think they’re mostly just blowing off steam, nobody really thinks it will happen. Until the rotten edifice collapses it’s best to just lose yourself in whatever pleasures you can.

      1. I think this is a pretty solid explanation. And I think you laid out well the dilemma most ROK inspired guys are stuck in.
        As another insightful reader explained to me, it can be summed up in the following way: “Enjoy the decline”.
        Personally I am not convinced that western civilzation is on the verge of collapse. Rather it seems to me we are on a downward spiral, but it might take a very long time before a radical transformation might take place. Ultimately we dont really know what the time frame is.
        For this reason the maxim of “spread the decay” just comes across as destructive. When a well has been poisoned, any sane person would not ad further poison. It would just make the situation worse.
        Even if society were to break down soon, it would take far longer to bring the house in order, cleaning up after PUAs, feminists, fat apologists, and many other types of degenerates.
        And this is my main problem with the PUAs, they ultimately deny that their lifestyle will have any real effect on society. They claim that they are just reacting to the present circumstances, and that their agency will have minimal effect on society.
        But offcourse the truth is that its all a numbers game. There is a strong quantitive side to this problem. As long as there are only few practicing PUAs around, it wont matter much. Once this norm spreads and hordes of wannbe players start to get active, critical mass will be reached and this will start to have real effects on society.
        This is why a practicing traditionalist can never be a PUA. You need to lead by example, and this is not what I see selfprofessed PUAs doing when they slutshame on the one hand, but then seek to game highly prized virgins on the other hand.

        1. It is entirely possible you are correct about the timeframe. Rome spent the better part of 300 years collapsing, still, even if the collapse is further off than I implied, in my mind that only strengthens my case.
          It is preferable, in my opinion, to hasten an inevitable collapse than to drag it out. If it happens sooner rather than later, there will still be a few people left alive who actually remember how to run a functioning civilization and what it looks like. To use your analogy of the poisoned well, if you knew there was poison in the well which was slowly degrading the quality of each successive generation, such that, without anybody really noticing it, in 200 years the village would be gone, would you not rather introduce a far faster acting poison which would draw everybody’s attention to the situation by causing immediate painful symptoms. It seems the problems would be far more likely to get fixed that way. Immediate pain is swiftly addressed, slow decay is tolerated until the eventual consequences are far more severe.
          There is also the fact that you seem to have a great deal more hope than me or others. I know a great deal more about the march of human history than most people and as far as I am aware there is not a single historical example of a human society genuinely reversing a decline. Sure, sometimes there are small reversals when a Constantine or a Napoleon comes along, but once those men are gone the underlying forces and the sheer law of averages responsible for the trajectory of their civilizations reassert themselves.
          If you have religious convictions that compel you to live a certain way as a matter of absolute principle then that is one thing, for the rest of us though, attempting to be an island of virtue amid an ocean of degeneracy is just pissing into the wind, there is no benefit to it whatsoever. You’re going to be covered in the slime anyway. Whether or not you comport yourself like a degenerate, you still have to live in a world where it’s normal for any other guy to try and bang your wife if given the slightest chance. You still have to accept that your attempts at responsible parenting will be undermined at every turn by the surrounding culture extolling the virtues of drugs, pornography, and casual sex to your children, and that against the sheer might of these forces, there is a good chance you will fail. Creating anything you care about so much that seeing it defiled by the ocean of slime we call a society will cause you immense pain is simple foolishness, be that a lifelong marriage, children, or whatever.

        2. Thanks for the thorough reply.
          The logic of “worse is better” is in my opinion not self evident. Sometimes worse is just worse.
          I will be frank with you. I am politically a nationalist, and I wish for the various different European peoples to revert to completely different regimes. Based on nationalist and traditionalist principles.
          Even if a complete collapse is eminent, it is very uncertain what will follow in the aftermath.
          Muslim fanatics, in addition to marxist radicals will be vying for dominance. After a collapse different factions will compete for power, and not all of them will be sympathetic to a traditionalist European cause.
          The party which succeeds with their power grab may just institute a regime that is far worse. We really dont know. This is why I am a bit more cautious about wishing for a collapse.
          A few years ago I looked into the Works of Oswald Spengler. And he came to similar conclusions as you. The problem is that we dont know in any metaphysical sense at what point society is located at present. The usual Developments of macrocultures are normally described in hindsight. It seems as if we are living through a phase of decaying empire at the moment, but we really cant know for sure.
          For this reason I believe that World history is very indeterministic. The fall of the Berlin Wall caught everybody by surprise, as did the red revolution and the breakout of WW1.
          Another problem is the damaging effect of the loss of religious faith.
          Humans cannot collectively survive without religion or ersatz religion. Progressivism is really just secularized christianity at its core, and it was natural that it came to occupy the spiritual void left by the critique of christianity.
          I am therefore only optimistic as far as Europeans are able to reclaim their faith in traditional religion, either christianity or pagan ancestral worship. I am not to sure that it necessarily has to be christianity.
          This is a very compex topic which will only make us stray further from the topic at hand if I start delving into it . But suffice it to say that I am quit convinced that many of the cultural marxist symptoms which are on full display at the moment are caused by an erosion of traditional religion. It is deep down a spiritual crisis the West is facing.
          Until this problem is fixed, all other proposed solutions will be futile or temporary.

        3. You mentioned the Muslim problem, surely on that note at least you would concede that it’s better to have this out now rather than later? The longer it takes before some major crisis forces a resolution to that question, the worse the underlying demographics will be (from a European perspective). If things just keep limping along as they are now, it won’t be long before Muslims actually outnumber natives in a fair number of European countries. At that point any question of revival or reversal is simply dead in the water.
          I would also say that, while it’s true we can’t know ‘for sure’ that we’re at the sharp end of a civilizational decline, that is only in the same sense that we can’t know ‘for sure’ that we aren’t in the matrix right now. No reasonable person could look at the obvious and terrible decline across all areas of our civilization, from industry to civility and not conclude that we’re in an advanced state of decay. As such, it only makes sense to proceed as though that is indeed the case.
          I agree completely that the collapse of Christianity following the Great War is really at the heart of most of this. I don’t see a solution to that unfortunately, modern science has rendered the Atheist case too strong. I suppose we can only wait and see what happens on that score.

        4. I think you are missing a few important points….
          firstly: many men out there are inept and unable to even engage in conversation or successfully date or get laid….. especially with today’s western women being so bitchy and liberated… (and men having been so guilted and pounded about their evil masculine ways) – even those like myself that were good with girls, after a few years in an LTR needed an urgent refresher to deal with online dating, smart phones and new aggressive attitudes from girls…
          second: PUA is about so much more than banging women… it’s about self esteem, self improvement, social skills – most of what PUA teaches is little more than old salesman techniques from the 60s and 70s…
          third: women are very tricky, false rape claims, ‘accidental’ pregnancies, cheating, flaking etc. and PUA helps a man to deal with these things… it seems it was the men who were more monogamous than the women, and thus losing ‘the one’ can break a man’s heart and ruin his life quite easily…. PUA helps over come that in these slutty times…
          forth: most women are whores, even if they appear to be good girl virgins, deep down and in this modern liberated times, they are by and large open to bi-sexuality, group sex and sleeping around…. they are vicious, cold and heartless when it comes to ending relationships, easily hopping on to the next prospect….
          firth: women control many managerial and ‘gateway’ positions and women operate on a sexual and bitchy level (read: unprofessional / favoritism) in almost everything they do… need the last seat on that plane, need your driver’s license renewed, need a hand filing some court document.. it’s all women and knowing how to disable their bitch shields, flirt and dominate them as a masculine man can be very handy….
          being able to get a girl into bed, is simply a field test of social skills that are about far more than getting loads of pussy….
          what you are failing to see is that PUA is about survival as a social human being, way before it’s about changing the world or building relationships…. if a man breaks his heart on his college sweet heart that had a bi-sexual gang bang and dumped him, if he can’t even get laid by the time he’s 25, if men are struggling with women in general, how the hell can they even think about LTRs ?
          Alot of the PUA thing is bravado and manspeak…. there is a lot of macho BS in there…. but there is also a mechanism to meet women, engage with them, have good sex with them and get over them when they flake, cheat or cause drama…
          I guarantee you that if the best player in the world went out and gamed women without sleeping with them, until he found ‘the one’, he’s still need every ounce of PUA skill to hold her in an LTR and most likely she’ll end up dumping him, flaking or turn out to be not such a good catch, leaving the man to get over her and find a replacement….
          just because a solider learns how to shoot, doesn’t make him a psychopathic murder that’s going to cause the next war… it just makes him able to survive in dangerous circumstances…
          this article is useful if I end up in India…. it’s useful, because no one these days can date a girl for 3 months with no sex, paying all her drinks, dinners and entertainment, without coming out the end feeling like a total chump….. girls no longer respect this attitude……. the nice guy comes in last.

        5. Yes I agree. That the negative effects caused by mass immigration of muslims/africans are better dealt with by overdosing on immigration in the short run. On this particular issue we are in full agreement.
          And looking at the political landscape in europe, it seems like a good portion of the electorate is experiencing a wake up call at present.
          And it is also true that all the signs are pointing at a great cultural decline in the West.
          Thats all good. This does however not entail that one should encourage degenerate behaviour.
          Before the SHTF, it is far more sane to get together with like minded people and build community. I would encourage every healthy young man to seek the company of healthy non-obese females with the right values. I am not saying that this is easy. It might take alot of time and will most likely be associated with a fair amount of frustration.
          But this is preferable compared to going full retard on all sorts of despicable acts of debauchery. If you cultivate an environment of mindless hedonism and nihilism, it will take a toll on you. If this lifestyle is carried on for to long it will ultimately tranform you in a very fundamental way.
          Knowing right from wrong will only become harder once you have immersed yourself into the depths of degeneracy.
          So ultimately it is far better to personally strive for what you wish society to become. I dont see the PUAs acting as rolemodels for society. Quite on the contrary.
          They are degading society further with the spread of their poisonous venom of a lifestyle.
          They should therefore be rejected and exposed for what they truly stand for.

        6. This is an interesting comment which deserves a thorough reply.
          I will reply point by point to the issues you raise.
          1) Yes this is a valid point. And I see much use in devising techniques for meeting women and breaking the ice. But I really dont see any point in portraying women as conniving and decieving monsters, created with the sole purpose of destroying men. Women are neither born as skanks or angels, but instead as imperfect creatures, just like men. The systematic demonization and degradation that follows in certain parts of the PUA community is simply not constructive in the long run.
          2) This is in general an admirable goal. And it is very perceptice of you to recognise the parallels to Classic salesmanship
          The problem is that these techniques are not only devised for gaming women. They are also devised with the aim of gaming male beta customers.
          Some of the PUA literature has BS content. Usually its some good stuff mixed with the bad. Making for a very uneven product.
          Many of these beta guys are wasting their time with the bulk of incoherent advice. Especially since much of the literature is not based on well founded science, but on pop-psychology.
          3) Yes but PUA are really an inversion of the bitchy tendencies developed. Lots of men, especially PUA inspired types, are acting like assholes themselves. Furthering the cultural degradation. This escalation of conflict between the sexes will become counterproductive in the long run.
          4) I think this is mostly wrong. True there is a certain segment of women acting in the described manner. But there is still a substantial fraction of women who have few sex partners throughout their lives. And this statistic is backed up by numerous surveys conducted in the last decade or so.
          Besides a counter culture of anti-feminism among women is on the rise, So it is not all doom and gloom.
          5) Yes I think this is a good thing learning to see through female manipulation. But often female behavour is not devised with the sole aim of manipulating men. And men also display favoritism, this is not a strictly female issue.
          “I guarantee you that if the best player in the world went out and gamed women without sleeping with them, until he found ‘the one’, he’s still need every ounce of PUA skill to hold her in an LTR and most likely she’ll end up dumping him, flaking or turn out to be not such a good catch, leaving the man to get over her and find a replacement….”
          Yes he will still need to develop social skills finetuned to female behavour. If we call it PUA or something else is immaterial. In former times men learned these skills either by themselves, through watching peers, or by learning from a mentor. It all worked out fine most of the time.
          Unfortunately the pro PUA authors are overcomplicating the issue when they start selling questionable advice. Its a business. It is therefore not in their interest to sell a simple product which goes straight to the heart of the matter.
          You dont need stacks of PUA books to tell you how to game women. Perhaps one core book, which is based on solid evolutionary science, is enough.The rest is trial and error from working in the field.
          Besides, I really dont like the way the PUAs are selling their product as a “game”. The male/female interaction is more than a game. Just like any other type of human interaction.
          Portraying people as mere ponds in a game strikes me as overly cynical. and is not conducive to building LTR with other people in general.
          “just because a solider learns how to shoot, doesn’t make him a psychopathic murder that’s going to cause the next war… it just makes him able to survive in dangerous circumstances…”
          Funny you should mention this. The behavoiur of the pro PUAs strikes me as bordering on the psychopathic. They are at least extremely focused on the satisfation of their own needs and wants. With very little regard for the consequences of their actions. They at least qualify as superficial egomaniacs who quickly tire of the company of others.
          They are not rolemodels to emulate, and I would for sure not want to be around these types of individuals for an extended amount of time. And I would neither want my daughter(if I had one), to be anywhere near these manipulative PUA types.

    14. Fuck a slut and marry a good girl
      It’s the male equivalent of alpha fux beta bux
      Some guys might be able to pull it off, but overall it’s not a great scheme for society at large

      1. Yes I think you are correct. A rational male, fully “red pill” , needs to analyze further. Look beyond the double standard and expose the hypocrisy. Ultimately seeking knowledge, whatever the consequences might be.
        I thought this was what ROK was all about to begin with. But this suddenly doesnt seem to be as important when pussy is dangling at the end of the stick. It all starts to look like an inversion of feminism, where opportunity based on gender overrides all other concerns.
        And as you state the collective consequences of this kind of behaviour are quit negative. Fully poisoning gender relations further and degrading society to a new low. PUA lifestyle just comes across as very destructive.

      1. Perhaps its not an ideology. But I have several examples of these contradicting opinions being held by the same person.

    15. Yeah that is something to ponder.
      I just encourage all women to be whores. Sure I may not bang, but someone will. I just hope that the dude in question looks out at the night sky and thanks the random stranger who planted the seed of whoredom in that girls ear.
      I say let women be sluts. Let’s be real. Fair is fair right? However, I still value a “good” girl more than a whore. So let the hoebags spread their legs for a as little as a nice accent. Who cares? Rack em up on your search for some girl who is actually worth it to be with.

    16. I never understood the moral outrage over western women riding the cock carousel. I understand the hypocrisy you point out and it is a fair point. If western women were ‘traditional’ virgins who are expected to stay chaste until marriage, there would be no such thing as PUA or game. It is indeed the sexual freedom women have experienced with the advent of second and subsequent waves of feminism that allows the gamers to go out a pick these women up. Also, it is to be noted that having sex with virgins is really bad. They don’t know how to give blow jobs, they lay there like dead fishes, and they are generally unimaginative requiring constant directions. I’d pick an experienced women over a virgin any day for the sexual experience she brings as well as to squelch the cognitive dissonance caused by the contrary ideas of gaming and the desire for all women to be virgins.
      Lastly, having traveled in parts of the Middle East and South Asia, I have concluded that sexual repression that includes gender separation and suppressing female sexual expression causes more societal problems than the more liberal sexual mores of the West. To be sure, both paradigms have their associated problems but, in my opinion, sexual repression causes societies to advance at a much lower rate than liberal sexual policies.

      1. This is spot on. The very reason why PUAs can uphold their lifestyle, and most of them want to uphold this lifestyle, is that the western world has been liberalized and has experienced feminism.
        Some PUAs and gamers will then go on to claim that they are only practicing a second best lifestyle. If society was traditional, then they would settle down instead.
        But we all know this is a lie. Few of them will really want to commit. And if they commit its often at a stage when they have reached middleage.
        The bottom line is that Gamers are parasitical on the liberal system. They are the types who fully enjoy the system. They only want superficial change. Like women dressing more stylish or more feminine. They dont want the system to change fundamentally, as this would imply an end to their lifestyle.

  14. Nice photos of chicks that you really don’t meet on the street, club and so forth in India. Indian girls or chicks are almost like the Western ones, so you have to be alpha to score. Nothing really new under the sun.

  15. … I used to think white women were bad, but now I think white women are angels compared to Indian women…
    True that.

  16. Wasn’t there an article on this website that said Indian women were butt ugly hairy monsters?

  17. My limited experience with indian women in america is they are most class conscious of asian cultures, but they learn not to express it openly. The few beautiful indian women i’ve seen are attached to indian men who are hotel owners, etc. Maybe social dynamics are different in india where you can stand out in the crowd as foreigner.

    1. If they are now, they will be soon. Is there a group of people on this planet that age less gracefully?

  18. PUA is risky business in India. You haven’t mentioned the chances of the guy getting beat in public if he said something Indian women considered to be ‘lewd’.

  19. #1 – – After potty training a male is essentially done with his mother. Not that you don’t owe her the world for her mothering at the time, but MILK SOURS HORRIFICALLY as we all know. Always love your mother still for being your mother.
    Now this goes to all the male kids out there that can navigate on their own and make their own PB&J sandwich: If your mom plays you guys against your father, still love your mom but USE YOUR IMMAGINATION and topple the straying bitch. Her service and loyalty must be for the father and patriarch. You are all little soldiers for the patriarchy. ATTEN-HUTT. Dad is the master and architect of your family. Women will stray with the blowing of the winds and changing of the climates which is why they may at some time need a firm (and loving) KAA-BOOOT.

  20. If you’re white, tall, have muscle, dress decently, look decent facially, and you’re not awkward socially, you’ll have no problem with most Indian women. Or most women, for that matter.
    I was spinning a Bangladeshi girl for a short while, have to say, despite what most people say, she wasn’t hairy at all! Though she was born in the UK.

    1. ya the western borns are waaaaaay better looking, but they up keep the hair every 2 weeks and if she dont shell pack more then you…trust me

    1. I’d fuck her.
      Then I’d let her sleep in handcuffs on the floor and ditch the hotel without paying.

  21. Game an indian woman so she can sue you and throw you in jail for supposedly making promises of marriage and not going through? And your prize? At best some sex with a girl from the third least attractive group of people on the planet.

      1. 1) Native American/inuit, and 2) black. Sure you can find decent examples in any group, but these three have the bell curve shifted too far to the ugly side of the graph.

        1. I disagree bro. In my opinion, east Asian females are by far the least attractive females on the planet. I don’t say that to be a dick, but physically, I cannot remember ever seeing a East Asian female that I thought was a 9 or a 10. I would take a Indian women or a Black chick waaay before I would waste my time with a Japanese or a Korean. Black African females (and those that have descended from them in the west) have probably the best hip to waist ratios of all women. If black African females look after themselves, live a clean life, and stay away from certain elements, they usually look pretty fuckin hot. And Black chicks age VERY well.
          Indian chicks in the west tend to be very sexy as well. In fact I prefer them over White women if I am being honest. I live in Australia, (Born and raised on the Southside of Chicago) and I see Alot of White Auzzie dudes with Indian females. (visa versa as well, but the women is usually Indian in such pairings).

        2. black females don’t have the best hip to waist ratios.. Latin American women do, and they’re mostly made up of Native American and Spanish, with a small minority off them of African ancestry.

  22. We should collect all of these columns (this one, Forney’s, and didactsreach’s just below, and others if they exist) and release a “Don’t Bang India” e-book.

  23. well, at least this article doesn’t take itself as seriously as the one on gaming women at cons.

      1. This is clearly a rural place, which is why they all have a flat-packed hairstyle. About half are over 35 too…
        Many of the young ones would look good with Western hairstyles, makeup, and fitness standards….
        This photo is no more representative than a photo of 19th century Western women would be.

  24. If you go traveling else where, make friends with Indian tourists. The most offers I get from tourists and non-tourists to visit them at their home countries are from Indian men many of whom I hardly know but I give them time of day for a short while and they want to be friends like forever. And since they are already traveling most of them are upper to middle-upper class.
    So while Indian men are beta, that can be a good thing, as they often treat you well. This also means automatically get into their circles if you ever do get to India. Just keep contact with them once every full moon so they remember who you are lol.

  25. A self professed self hating cultural marxist trying to fight the man by trying to lay asian chics because white american chics are subhuman robots…. Ok. This author needs to move on over to Jezebel and proudly embrace his SJW calling.

  26. John Doe, I always liked your posts and comments and Ive always thought you had the biggest indian fetish, so It does say alot that you dont put them on a really high pedestal, but an ordinary guy or indian would be far more critical then you would be.
    So heres my take bit by bit.
    p1:yes this is true when shes out and about,theres always a bunch of guys like 10 over for an average 5-6/10 girl(here in the west shed be a 4).Even though yes the indian girls in the west are much hotter then the motherland ones. But those that get sick of indian men are the westernized ones that you know fuck around behind closed doors…alot thats why she wants the novelty. Otherwise to take a note from roosh when he was in Turkey, being a foreginer demonstrates lower value. Even if you are native to the region, the second you switch to english or mention it,you drop in value. Its a concept that happens not only in india and turkey but all through middle east and south asia.
    P2:yes the westernized dressed girls showing more skin are the only ones you can game,these are usually the rich upper class girls with all the cool gadgets.
    P3:well like turkey(which is known for violent even deadly cockblocks despite being the most westernized musllim nation), indians do cockblock hard on anyone,even other indians, and theyll be harder on foreigers, since theres a gendar imbalance in a sexually conservative society. The competition is hard enough without the foreigners and indian women are hypergamous as fuck despite the gendar gap. Groom kidnapping is an issue there.
    But of course the local feminst,sweep that under the rug.
    P4:But be very careful when you game, being assaulted by a 100 knights isnt unsual. THis one being the worst example and he was probably an actual lost tourist.
    P4:yes its all social circle and online game there which will lead you to those same americanized western dressed upper class ones. And yes it shouldnt be a shock either that guys save up and make a trip to goa to chase american,russian and isreali girls. Due to quality and easiness. Goa is like their phillipines to the typical indian even though it aint.
    Traditional girls are sexually disciplined,the westernized ones are “repressed”. That game advice very solid, Ive heard of this and its alot of work. But the harem thing would be too difficult though. Havin 4 here in the west is a headache and a fulltime job to up keep. There I can only imagine how hard it would be there. Honestly your Indian alpha friend would be shocked how often he will get laid(better quality too) if he put 25% of his game here or elsewhere. Honestly if he can game there he can game anywhere….well except middle east.
    CON: totally you dont want to be there period. You are better off getting an indian girl here in the west then there. They are better looking here but their craziness is more familar, fob indian girls got a whole other kinda crazy. And yes you basically said why irts pedalize white women over indian women, kinda how black men appreciate white women since black girls can be really bad. They just seem more low maintence then them.
    ps dont belilve that hymen bs, if shes marriage minded shed stay away. Thanx for your imput Doe.

  27. I haven’t been to India but I’ve met lots of Indian women here in Amercia. So let’s get one thing straight: if you’re kinky, this is the ethnicity you filter OUT in your dating site searches. “50 Shades of Grey’ ain’t happenin’ here. The lore we all grew up with is “Wow, these chicks must be hot, they have an ancient book on sex.” But the reality is: the book “Kama Sutra”was created because no one over there has any idea what hot sex is or what they fuck they are doing in the sack… and they need a book to try to show them! Having sex with the “The Wall Street Journal” is hotter. if you find an Indian woman who’s hot in the sack, she was probably trained in the American jizz biz. And we all know how rare it is to see Indian bitches in porno. I hope this clears it up. Toss off if stuck over there or save your juice for SE Asia and hop a plane.

  28. Next on RoK: How to find the very few untouched, pristine places on earth and build a mega mall

      1. I quite frankly am a bit repulsed by traditional indian women.
        My point is, in theory, here’s a country with values that majority of us here are looking for in women, and this article on the other hand saying, let’s go game those cunts.
        What’s it gonna be?

  29. I have given Indians a bad rap in the past for being difficult, but I have seen the light and now appreciate Indians. They are my favorite non-white ethnicity now.
    The fact is that Indians seem to be psychologically most similar to whites, and they actually want to be a real part of whatever country they immigrate to. Indians in America are smart, but not super obsessed with status, or so it seems.
    And Indian girls are corny as all get out, but hey, at least they try to laugh a little. So let’s all drink a beer to the Indians.

      1. Life still sucks for most Indian men in the West though. The media absolutely portrays them as sons of Satan, and I have never had a single Western female showing interest in me although I am fairly assimilated to the Western values. Only thing I lack being the inability to look Indian, and I guess that’s a deal breaker to most Western women. I don’t want my children to grow up in the poisonous racially charged atmosphere of the West.

        1. I know tons of Indian guys who are with hot white chicks (although they are guys born in the West). Don’t attribute to race what should be attributed to the wrong things that India teaches men (betatude, neediness, and poor fitness).
          Many famous Western celebs either married or had very long relationships with Indian men much less famous than them.
          Elizabeth Hurley
          Christina Hendricks
          Gwen Stefani
          Fran Drescher
          Sarah McLachlan
          Kelly Williams (TV Actress).
          I’d say given the very small number of Indian men in the West, that is a pretty impressive turnout.
          It is pretty clear that a lot of white women want to get with an *attractive* Indian guy, except that too few Indian guys meet the bare minimum. That does not make white women racist. They are willing to meet an Indian guy more than half-way, but Indian guys can’t clear the minimum standard.

  30. you attract what you put out. if you spend your life manipulating people you’ll be on the receiving end of that also (even though we all like to think we are to smart to get suckered or played). if you are up front and honest about wanting to get laid minus the manipulation, guess what: you can still get laid! i know, such a weird concept right?

  31. Ugh. The only girls I’m attracted to less than Indian chicks are Black girls.
    Sorry, me so raciss.
    As far as sex appeal goes, I prefer my own race – white. I don’t think this is racist actually, but pretty normal behaviour. I think it’s somewhat deviant to have a fetish for races not your own. Wouldn’t you call a labrador retriever wanting to breed with another labrador “normal,” but it’s wanting to breed with pomeranians or poodles to be “deviant?” I would.
    But hey, if you’re an Indian man, go for it. You guys obviously need to breed some more little Indians.

  32. I lived in India twice, a fascinating country. But it is hard sometimes to have fun.
    The first thing to accept is there are some girls who simply are immune from game – well they will feel the same deep biological thrills as western women of course, the same tingles but their families, religion, brothers, friends and upbringing etc will all put a hard limit on how far they will go. A huge number of Indian women are virgins on their wedding night. They had boyfriends, they dated, they kissed a few guys and they loved leading men on but they ultimately said no to every man.
    The key is to not let this dishearten you. There are some women from westernised families, perhaps with a relatively absent wealthy father who have been brainwashed by feminism into thinking promiscuity is empowering etc. Most Indian women are unspoilt by feminism.
    A couple of points – you can tell much more easily by her age what her character is like. If she is a virgin at 20 then the likelihood is she is staying that way until her wedding night. By contrast if she is a non-virgin by that age she is up for being used for fun. It’s not like in the west where you can persuade them to give it up.
    Bizarrely I had most success with Hindu girls. Avoid Moslems. And, generally avoid Christian girls. Every Indian man will tell you the Catholic girls in Bombay are easy; it simply isn’t true. They dress more western, travel more and have boyfriends but the Catholic Church there really goes hard on keeping virginity. I got to know many Catholic girls, dated a few and only slept with one who had already had a few lovers. Others were really into me but wouldn’t do anything more than kiss. If you’re just wanting fun look elsewhere.
    Nightclubs are actually a good place to meet so long as you stand out by being white – if she is drunk then get her number and get to know her over the coming weeks. Many Indians love night clubs so again there will be the long-term virgins but I met some girls there who were hot and I got to enjoy later on. Patience is the key there.
    You were right on one thing – tell them they can’t have you and they chase and chase. It’s confusing though as then most will say… after weeks of chasing you hard…. no more than kissing before marriage. It’s a strange situation and one that doesn’t happen with western girls – if a western girl showed the desire an Indian girl does you could fuck her that night, with the Indian it all depends on her lifestyle and culture. I might also add that western women there are often very easy, I slept with more western women there than Indian women, many are glad just to get away from being pestered on the street.
    One final note, please refer to Bombay as Bombay. “Mumbai” is the name in Marathi. A fascist group took control of the city in the 1990s and have since then tried to intimidate and censor those who use the correct English name. It is nothing to do with colonialism, Bombay is a name just as old as Mumbai and both are correct in their own languages. It, to any literate English speaker, sounds so jarring when someone says “Mumbai” when speaking English. And worse still it is to allow fascists to control something so important as our language.
    Bombay – specifically not “Mumbai” (which connotes religious purity and Hindu nationalism) – is the place we all loved and is the only place in India any good for alpha men. It by Indian standards a center of religious pluralism, open, tolerant and diverse (in the non-politically correct sense of the word) filled with culture, film-making, old cafes (many gone sadly now) and just the kind of place the religious extremists sought to destroy and they started with the name.
    Ultimately, I consider India one of the last good places to find a wife who will be a virgin. You will get far more easy sex almost anywhere else in the world.

  33. Beware, of all the women I have encountered, Indian women age the worst! So if you choose this road, wrap it up or else pay dearly!

  34. Okay so ROK has taught me about “Buffet game,” now I’m learning about “Foreigner game.”

  35. Do you guys actually meet people or just sit in your basements and repeat stereotypes? Holy fuck go out and get laid for once its not that fucking hard

  36. Ultimately, the first rule is to never make the mistake of ending up in India.
    That would be a good opening line to a movie. I can picture Ewan Macgregor (trainspotting version) dong a short monologue and then saying this, and then the music kicks in.

  37. Indians don’t blindly pursue
    sexual repressed attitudes – they believe in the integrity of family
    (ideally, and among other things). And Indian clothings tends to work well in terms of the maintenence (easy hand washing and sun drying). Classic Indian clothing was really nice, unlike the shitty color assortments and designs common today.

  38. Excellent points Jannik.
    I have to say the logical inconsistencies are now very apparent. Approaching it from a different angle , the author explicitly mentions that the only demographic that foreigners can target in the middle and upper class women who are more worldly. From my experience this is correct.
    He then goes on to say they are sick of Indian men and points out that are 30 million more men than women in India. This is where everything breaks down , the women in these upper class circles have access to upper class men who are more worldly and presumably in the author’s own words “very polite, educated, and intelligent”. These women would obviously prefer high quality men from their own community and with the lopsided ratio , they have their pick of the men who ‘get it’. The leftover men from this demographic are the ones hooking up with Western women because it is clear that whichever way you look at the statistics or anything there are more Indian men dating outside their race than Indian Women.
    The other demographic which is more traditional and wears ‘sarees’ are the ones who are not open to dating foreigners and tend to marry at a very early age the traditional Indian men. It really breaks down at every point and ROK has now become extremely poor.
    He seemed to completely lose all credibility when he said there is nothing to do in India for recreational activity. This is the country home to the Himalayas and currently some of the best non-commercial ski sites as well as having the best diving sites in the Indian ocean still unspoiled by tourism.

  39. “it’s every Indian girl’s dark fantasy to be sexually dominated by a white guy” I don’t agree with this.Indian girls only date Indian guy.They prefer Indian guy over other races.
    “white women are angels compared to Indian women”I don’t think so.Indian girls are much more beautiful than any white girl even average looking Indian girl and it is not that easy to sleep with a Indian girl (or take her virginity away). You may possibly ended with jail.(END OF YOUR JOURNEY).

  40. Stereotypically, women are the same everywhere. One will experience exactly the same rates of success or failure, short of finding new circles, as anywhere else because… get this, no matter where you go, you’re still the same.

  41. What u smoking dude…u really seem to have been cheesed off by an Indian Girl…else, u wouldn’t have stoopped so low to Fabricate such pathetic fiction. If u r looking for Whores…u surely came to d wrong place. Respect is something which u surely erred to confuse with subordination…can’t blame u, Culture is what u dnt seem to have much back home. So b it, dnt Blame others for ur Cultural deficiencies.

  42. As an Indian, I can say that this article makes sense. Being beta in India is a cruel curse. Its the women who control most relationships. A girl with above average looks will be considered a Goddess by 90% of the men.

  43. site providing complete false logic about INDIAN’s . i wud rate you complete useless if i’m a rater.

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