Like tens of millions of others, I am a big fan of HBO’s “Game of Thrones”. I love the acting, I think the political intrigue is fascinating, and I find the fantasy world in which it takes place to be incredibly enthralling. As someone who has spent a lot of time reading and analyzing manosphere philosophy, however, there is another aspect of Game of Thrones that pulls me in: its accurate depiction of red pill realities.
A warning to some: there are major spoilers coming if you’ve not reached at least the ninth episode of the current season of Game of Thrones on HBO. If you are still waiting to see Episode 9, haven’t read the books and don’t want to be spoiled, stop reading now.
Last week saw the depiction of arguably the most emotionally charged scene in all of Martin’s series (and, possibly, on all of TV): the Red Wedding. Robb Stark, “King in the North” and eldest son of Eddard Stark (former Lord of Winterfell), was slaughtered mercilessly alongside his bannermen, his mother, and his pregnant fiancé. This is done at the behest of the powerful and vengeful old Lord Walder Frey, whose daughter Robb Stark had promised to marry earlier in the series. Robb went back on this promise, and Frey went ahead with his revenge.
Before I continue, let me note where I stand sentimentally here: I like the Starks. I think that they actually are “good”, “honourable” and possessing of many admirable traits. I also, however, believe that this is precisely their problem. The Starks provide a valuable illustration of a red pill reality crucial to anyone seeking true self-improvement in an often immoral world: “the right thing” is not always “the necessary thing”. Sometimes, one must put aside old notions of what is “right” or “moral” in order to do what is necessary.
There are several examples within Game of Thrones that show Starks failing to understand this and paying horrible prices as a result. In the midst of the death of King Robert Baratheon, Ned Stark found himself at a crucial juncture: he had the opportunity to use Robert’s children (who he has now discovered are actually the illegitimate products of incest, not of the King) to make peace with his enemies and secure the Iron Throne as well as his family’s wellbeing.
Ned Stark received good advice calling for him to do just this, but chose to ignore it in order to do “the right thing”, the “honourable” thing. He backed the “rightful” claim of another Baratheon, the King’s brother Stannis, to the throne, helping to fuel more conflict and instability while putting himself in great danger. Instead of seizing the Queen and her illegitimate children of incest, he took the time to meet her face to face, let her know that he was aware of everything, and threaten to tell the King all about it.
This had the potential to destroy her family and keep her eldest son off of the throne. Despite that, Ned actually expected her to give up and go away quietly—instead, he merely ensured his eventual imprisonment and murder at the hands of her sociopathic spawn.
Robb Stark is very much his father’s son: consistently giving preference to the “right” over the “necessary”. Rob wanted to do the right thing and trust Theon Greyjoy, who he figured was like a brother. This was somewhat understandable in a moral sense (he grew up with Theon), but foolish in a practical one. Theon was a Greyjoy and the Greyjoys had a bone to pick with the Starks, one that Theon was bound to try and resolve himself at some point if given the chance. Robb, anxious to do the sentimentally good thing for someone he grew up with, ignored these realities, even though he was advised not to do so.
Robb also proved himself easily led astray by notions of love, the downfall of many an “honourable” man. As I mentioned earlier, Robb had made a vow to marry the daughter of the powerful Lord Walder Frey in order to form an alliance that could have proven invaluable. He went back on this promise in order to marry a girl he was “in love” with, Talisa Maegyr. Walder Frey was not pleased—he thought he’d successfully pawned a young daughter off and made her a Queen. Now he had nothing, and he made sure the Starks paid for that.
You may be compelled to ask why it is that Robb did what he did. He probably could have still had Talisa on the side as a mistress following his marriage. Talisa may have understood (prettier women have put up with more from less powerful men), and Robb could have kept his alliance intact and preserved a shot at winning the war. He maybe even could have come to care for Roslin as a wife, the same way Ned and Catelyn’s love grew over time. After all, it can’t be too hard to warm to a woman who looks like this:
But Robb, we must remember, is the son of Ned Stark and possibly the most like him of all the Stark boys. Like most “honourable” men, he wanted to marry for “real love”, even if it meant shunning duty. He was also probably morally opposed to the idea of having a woman he loved as a side piece, even if that was necessary (and quite commonly done by men of his stature) to maintain a crucial alliance. Instead he put himself and his entire clan closer to extinction in the name of “love”. It sounds honourable and romantic, but it was stupid, and it got him killed. Had Robb been able to put the romantic BS aside, he could have survived and left House Stark in a much better position than it is. He let his “honourable”, “romantic” feelings for a pretty woman control and, ultimately, destroy him.
A crucial part of the process associated with digesting the red pill is the acknowledgement of the need to put to bed many of the idealistic moral notions you once held sacred or dear, replacing them with more practical, necessary understandings of the world. For many of us that means accepting hard truths like “nice guys finish last”, even though we’d been taught for most of our lives that being “nice” is the best shot at attaining lasting love with a quality woman. We cannot grow and witness true improvement in ourselves without developing the ability to see and accept these realities, even if they don’t fit in with the moral compasses we were handed.
The two male leaders of House Stark provide us with a potent example of what could happen to those who fail to make this transition. Both men grew into influential, powerful leaders, ascending to positions in which success necessitated the ability to operate according to the laws of reality, not just morality. Both men failed to adapt to this, and both men paid the ultimate price. They stuck rigidly to old notions of “honour”, and died with them.
None of the men reading this are kings and none of us will likely ever face the threat of beheading or violent matrimonial betrayal. Like the Starks, however, all of us can derive value from an ability to prioritize “the necessary” over “the right”.
At the end of the day, Robb’s downfall can be boiled down to mistakes we see destroy many men in real life: he found a pretty girl, he became overwhelmed with “honourable” notions of chivalry and romance, he let these notions cloud his judgment and, finally, he was destroyed by them. The ability to look at things with a slightly more cynical and realistic eye in order to avoid such detachment from reality can be invaluable. It might not be needed to avoid the threat of a “Red Wedding”, but it could certainly help you avoid a lifetime of financial, social, and romantic frustration.
Read Next: Who Is The Biggest Alpha Male On Game Of Thrones?
Whewwww, you almost make me want to watch TV.
Great post.
Great post!
“mistakes we see destroy many men in real life: he found a pretty girl, he became overwhelmed with “honourable” notions of chivalry and romance, he let these notions cloud his judgment and, finally, he was destroyed by them. The ability to look at things with a slightly more cynical and realistic eye in order to avoid such detachment from reality can be invaluable… it could certainly help you avoid a lifetime of financial, social, and romantic frustration.”
An absolutely brilliant paragraph. Immense wisdom in there. Keep up the awesome writing!
If you think the HBO series is good, you should read the books…
Great post! Especially the point about Robb valuing nobility and honour yet not keeping his bloody promise to Lord Frey.
Its amazing to compare this article to one written by a feminist: http://prospect.org/article/how-patriarchy-screwed-starks
One blames the patriarchy for Stark’s death. The other blames Stark himself.
oh god no
it doesnt matter if a man survives, it matters if his children survive. Robb brought his pregnant wife into the power if a man with every reason to hate her (and her offspring) because Robb was an idiot, not because he was noble. Darwin’s Law – idiots die and their families with them.
Never watched this show – it all looks a bit gay. I assume if you like LOTR and the Hobbit you’ll like this? Just a wild guess.
But, as an outsider (to the show) this obsession comes across as pretty much as gay as people’s obsession with mobile phones (which I fucking hate btw).
Not trolling, just wondering, what’s the big fucking deal with this show?
It takes place in a fantasy world similar to LoTR but with a little less magic. However it focuses a lot more on competing political and military powers and the games they play. And it’s massive in scale.
Oh, cheers. Yeah, I’d definitely hate it.
Are you some sort of wanker? What is gay about feuding nobility, war, politics, plots, and massacres? There aren’t any fucking elves or dwarves in game of thrones. Give it a chance.
the wanker comment made me laugh.
well if you described the show without watching it, it would sound very nerdy, instead of a living embodiment of machievelli’s the prince and the rise and fall of the roman empire which it plainly is
It actually bears incredible likeness to the War of the Roses.
Starks = Yorks
Lannister = Lancaster
The Wall = Hadrian’s Wall
Westeros = British Isles.
I am fairly confident I read somewhere that this similarity was precisely the author’s (George R. R. Martin) intention. He modeled much of the story on that conflict. I have also read that the Red Wedding itself was inspired by a real life event known as “The Black Dinner”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Douglas#Black_Dinner
Funny how in today’s world marrying for love is seen as honorable while betrothal is not. As good as Game of Thrones is, it has still been soiled by today’s western sensibilities. If Robb were as honorable as the author wanted us to believe he would have married the Frey girl, as Ned Stark did.
Exactly. Being honorable means being true to your word. Ned married his older brother’s fiance when he died. He didnt marry Catelyn for love, but to honor his father’s word.
Robb should have married Frey’s ugly daughter and kept mistresses on the side, like all highborn do. He would then be able to use Frey’s men to take Casterly Rock, then sue for peace with the Lannisters and live out his days as the King of the North. Possibly even bide his time allowing everyone else to weaken themselves fighting over the Iron Throne, then jumping in and taking it for himself. But he threw everything away for a woman.
And we even found out the Frey girl wasn’t ugly after all, so Robb really would have had the whole package.
Great post.
Morality must be balanced with necessity and self-interest. Whether something is “mean” or “bigoted” is not, and should be the most important factor in anything. Effectiveness and pragmatism should always come first.
Feminism and other forms of western thought make the grave error of putting moral niceness above all things, leading to visions of unrealistic utopianism and a culture of persecution against anyone who points it out.
Well, but then there is Tywin Lannister, whose heartless power politics put his grandson on the thrown, but whose own children hate him. Theon Greyjoy, who does what is “necessary” in betraying the Starks, sacking Winterfell, and killing many innocents, only to wind up on a torturer’s rack. Jaimie Lannister, who throws a small boy out a window to hide his secrets among other crimes and is perhaps the most hated man in Westeros, becoming a prisoner, a hunted fugitive, and a cripple. Joffrey Lannister, who is almost killed in the streets by his own subjects.
Meanwhile the Starks have a family bound together by love, and many bonds of friendship with their followers. Robb rallied an army in part because of his family’s reputation for honor. The Stark name is so honored in the North that even with the family in ruin, Sansa and Arya have power and value just because their last name is Stark.
It’s good to have an understanding of realpolitik, and to be strategic about things, but let’s not go overboard.
Right, moral virtues need to be weighed against realpolitik. But we should all remember that reality is harsh and competitive, and people who ignore these things in favor world views based on empathy and feelings are not being realistic.
“Meanwhile the Starks have a family bound together by love”
You mean they had a family bound by love. The others you mentioned are still alive.
jon, arya, bran, rickon, sansa, only 3 dead
personally i am fan of the meat swilling, back slapping, no marriage taking alpha Brynden Blackfish Tully.
Perfect blend of honourable asshole.
Davos is classic noble traditionalist, unable to work with modern society
Tyrion, pre shae would probably be called a tyler durden esque pua
Jorah mormont is classic beta weakling, tying with sam fatwell tarly
Daario is good looks/poetry game
Jaime lannister season 1 was alpha season 3 was, just confusing
theon= dickless
theon’s sister= noble dyke
ramsay= gone off the alpha scale into psychosis and madness
roose= probably sigma, uninterested with women only in power
tywin ditto
And Ned knew he’s putting himself in danger. But he had his principles (honor) to do what’s he thought was right, including trying to spare the queen and her children but back Stannis – even though he knew it would be much harder to pull off than just going along and playing the game. It’s an arguable position vs the usual machiavellian pro-game stance , but it’s not stupid or illogical.
Robb on the other hand, was rather too much alpha. There was no “marriage strike” in the middle ages so he did the alpha thing of doing what he wants instead of what he’s supposed too. Also, don’t forget, he didn’t exactly have a lot of options when he went back to Freys, so it’s not that he’s that stupid but rather he gambled and lost.
“You wear your honor like a suit of armor, Stark. You think it keeps you safe, but all it does is weigh you down and make it hard for you to move.” —Petyr Baelish
Good analysis. The Starks’ honour has led them to extreme political naivete while the Lannisters’ extreme self-interest has them currently winning the game of thrones. However, for the Tyrells so far seem to be shrewd operatos but without the amorality that characterizes the Lannisters.
Don’t offer your throat to your sworn enemy and expect mercy.
Both Ned and Robb were killed in the enemy’s “house”.
Mixing honor WITH stupidity is bad recipe.
¨Morality has no other scientifically demonstrable function other than to keep intact the genetic material¨ – E. O. Wilson (progenitor of Sociobiology)
The Starks should have been closer to Stannis Baratheon from the beginning…
He is not just the legitemate heir but the best candidate for bringing peace and order for the realm. They made no decision when split between Renly and Stannis occured- the Starks always behave honorably : WHY NOT HERE ? This made them suspicious to Stannis and he wanted to see Robb dead (he cursed them with the help of that hot priestess bitch Melisandre). They two armies would have been unstoppable for the Lannisters and the Freys and Boltons would have thought twice about treason. Stannis is also one of my favourite characters : He is just some badass (beeing a formidable warrior at Blackwater and showing great courage, having an endurance and sense of duty, uneffected to hedonism, very spartan). His commitment to Melisandre on the other side, makes him less Alpha. But I don’t think that he is following her because he is charmed by her, he is just following to see where the prophesy is going (beeing the Avatar of R’hllor has many advantages)
Ned Stark supported Stannis’s claim for what little it meant..
Robb arguably couldn’t support Stannis as Stannis would never settle for the northmen forming their own seperate kingdom (THE KING IN THE NORTH! etc)
I dont agree Athlone. You are just inflecting your own concepts of game and honor onto the show. It’s also obvious you haven’t read the books. The show can stand alone, but you lose the context of Martin’s real story.
First of all, Ned Stark did lose his head in part because of his adherence to his code of honor. He didnt have to make an inquisition into the true parentage of Robert’s “children”. He didnt have to refuse Robert’s command to have Daenerys killed. He didnt have to confront Cersei or insist on the ascension of Stannis. But then, if he didnt do those things, he wouldnt be Ned Stark. Ned Stark was largely loved by the North and even some southern Lords, and through a series of “honorable” decisions and the treachery of others, executed impulsively at the command of a sociopath.
Robb, on the other hand, did not possess the degree of classical “honor” his father Ned had. If you read the books you’ll see Robb won many of his battles through ambushes and guerrilla tactics. His greatest mistake was rebuffing the Freys for Talisa (who in the books is Jeyne Westerling). But this had nothing to do with honor. Robb married Jeyne because he LOVED Jeyne. He wanted Jeyne, not an arbitrary Frey girl. Impulsive, yes. A youthful lack of foresight and control that ultimately cost him and his mother, not to mention countless Stark men, their lives. Rob’s mistake was this lack of foresight and the impulse of his love with Jeyne Westerling, but that is the tragedy of Robb. He was bolder and more headstrong than Ned. He was gifted in war, King in the North. But Robb (in the books) was a 16 year old boy.
I don’t think you were listening to what he’s saying.
In the George RR Martin’s book Robb didn’t love Jeyne Westerling. He married her because he felt it was an honorable thing to do after taking her virginity.
This was changed in HBO adaptation so now he’s not doing honorable thing but pursuing his love.
“His greatest mistake was rebuffing the Freys for Talisa (who in the books is Jeyne Westerling).”
I’m not sure that these two characters can be considered the same. Talisa is clearly based on Jeyne and plays a similar role, but her story and background is different enough to preclude any argument that assumes her to be interchangeable with Jeyne. Talisa is similar to Jeyne, but she isn’t Jeyne.
As for the role of “honor” in his decision, I think we’ll just need to agree to disagree here. I think that Robb’s feelings and idealization of romantic love have quite a bit to do with his sense of honour, and are quite common in supposedly “honourable” men.
To each their own interpretation, I suppose.
I guess that’s the great thing about his stories is that there is more than one way to interpret the character’s decisions. I was always under the impression that Talisa and Jeyne were analogs, but that could be debated. In any case they are a great study on (a)morality.
I guess that’s the great thing about his stories is that there is more than one way to interpret the character’s decisions. I was always under the impression that Talisa and Jeyne were analogs, but that could be debated. In any case they are a great study on (a)morality.
McGinnis is my favorite writer on ROK. No homo
Honorable thing for Robb to do would’ve been to honor his vow and go with the arranged political marriage, like his father did. Marrying a random foreigner was just selfish above anything, he was just thinking selfishly there.
Something you usually can get away with in the modern world, thankfully.
Yep, I was scrolling down to post the exact same thing when I read this. Honor would have necessitated keeping his promise to marry one of Freys girls and looking after the best interests of his family and subjects. NOT giving in to romantic and selfish flights of fancy.
Marrying to forge political alliances is what is expected of royalty, and to ignore this is abdication of his duty.
The elephant in the room of the author’s argument is that Robb was
dishonourable in ignoring his obligation to his wife-to-be; his sentimentality and impulsiveness overcoming his duty is what killed him.
Ned Stark died because he trusted. It wasn’t his commitment to a code, per se, that
killed him; his code got him respect and trust. What killed him was
that he assumed- though he was warned, though all evidence pointed to
the dishonourability of those he was trusting- that his enemies played
by his rules, too. A person can be mostly honourable and accurately
assess his enemy, too. The author is reading the wrong moral.
The series isn’t over and several Starks are still alive. Wouldn’t be surprised at the end of it all, they end up on the throne. Throughout history the greedy and ruthless win battles but rarely win the war. However, Robb is dead because he made a stupid choice to marry the girl. ‘Love’ is often the downfall of principled men.
an otherwise ambitious project corrupted and hugely depreciated by injections of utterly false modern ideas, especially of female empowerment and to a lesser extent of racism.
Every female character wields immense influence over men, is headstrong, extremely defiant and commands only the highest level of dignity and respect in every situation.
Men who cross women are summarily executed, assassinated, brutally decapitated, or at best arrowed to near comatose state even if they are legendary warriors and starring cast members, while even minor female characters are so holy and mighty that the producers can’t bring them to have so much as a nose bleed unless it’s the season finale or some other grand spectacle.
The real weirdness is no one even seems to notice this type of artificial misrepresentation of the human experience anymore and many would even fervently argue this show is as savage and as hardcore as it gets !!!
Shows like this make me wonder how has the western world gone so bat shit psychotic as to impose this masochistic role to its men while elevating women to a laughably pretentious goddess like status.
Exactly. Watch the credits and you’ll notice at least half of the higher-ups are women.
Character failings of the major female characters from the book are nerfed (Cercei was banging her cousin and at least 2 members of the kingsguard by this point, for example, and it was at her urging that Jaimie pushed Bran) and minor females are buffed (Shae, Yggritte, Brienne) or fabricated (Talisa, Roz).
Major male characters are portrayed as weak, whiny, and whipped…..Jaimie, Jon, Tyrion.
Typical mainstream TV drivel. The books are great, of course.
Tyrion? What show are you watching?
“Character failings of the major female characters from the book are nerfed … and minor females are buffed”
That’s as succinct a nutshell statement of the problem as I’ve seen. The same pattern is visible in pretty much everything that comes out of Hollywood, and where applicable, the news media. I do think it’s less bad, at least in terms of disparity with the book, in this show than in many others; most other shows/movies do a lot more “buffing” than GoT. Look at shows like “Under the Dome”, or to go way back, the Jurassic Park movie.
“and it was at her urging that Jaimie pushed Bran” have you really read the books?
Exactly. Watch the credits and you’ll notice at least half of the higher-ups are women.
Character failings of the major female characters from the book are nerfed (Cercei was banging her cousin and at least 2 members of the kingsguard by this point, for example, and it was at her urging that Jaimie pushed Bran) and minor females are buffed (Shae, Yggritte, Brienne) or fabricated (Talisa, Roz).
Major male characters are portrayed as weak, whiny, and whipped…..Jaimie, Jon, Tyrion.
Typical mainstream TV drivel. The books are great, of course.
I’m sorry, no.
Sansa Stark. Not headstrong at all. You may not like that she’s a more sympathetic character in the Show than in the books, but you can’t fault the actor for making the character better than she is in the books. She still does all the petty spoiled stupid things, she just suffers injustices that are out of proportion to her ‘crimes’.
In fact most of the women in this series are not empowered. Major characters who happen to be women are…but this is because they are major characters. There are no “Goddesses”, though there are plenty of women who think of themselves as such.
I just…there is no historical anticedent to this series. It is fantasy, and in case you don’t follow this genre, women are often empowered characters here. Why? Because women’s history in actually reality sucks.
The men in this series are not victims nor are they weak, they wield tremendous power but they also, because they are human, have flaws and weaknesses. The women aren’t spared this reality, evert character in this epic are forced to face the consequences of their actions, and sometimes the consequences of actions that they had no direct part in. Regularly women have been raped, abused debased and sold as property. Some of these women have found power in this dynamic but they are few. The fact that you are somehow offended by this says much more about you than it does about the series.
And keep in mind, it is written by a man, and that man is heavily involved in the production of the show.
“Sansa Stark” oh what a poor girl, they haven’t even fucked her while male characters routinely get castrated or decapitated for merely making a sexual innuendo (in the latter case)…
very fair and realistic treatment indeed, such is the insanity of the masochistic indoctrination you’ve been infected with dear commentator…
Honor – if you have to put an utilitarian value on everything – can also prevent a lot of harm.
Allow me to remember this fine assembly that life is a lot more complex than a NOVEL.
Trying to take lessons for life from a novel (a rather nice one, in my opinion) is as bad as the silly girls and women that are brainwashed with soap operas, with the results that we all know.
Who knows if this series want to do the same, in some devious way?
I will keep my honor and strive to do what I believe is right. And keep my eyes and hears tuned at the same time.
Honor – if you have to put an utilitarian value on everything – can also prevent a lot of harm.
Allow me to remember this fine assembly that life is a lot more complex than a NOVEL.
Trying to take lessons for life from a novel (a rather nice one, in my opinion) is as bad as the silly girls and women that are brainwashed with soap operas, with the results that we all know.
Who knows if this series want to do the same, in some devious way?
I will keep my honor and strive to do what I believe is right. And keep my eyes and hears tuned at the same time.
For any book readers… Euron Greyjoy is the most alpha character from the series amirite?
You omitted another two critical errors by Robb Stark. He beheaded an ally (Karstark) which lost him half of his army!! And this came about because he let his mother release jamie Lannister which ultimately not only lost him a bargaining chip, but also the Karstarks.
First of all, I agree with your observation of the storyline – the Starks could have been in the power seat – first through Ned (who in my opinion, was completely naive in “who his world really worked”). I know the storyline had to go in this direction, but in reality – he should have stayed in the North and ruled his lands. The Rob was completely wrong and once again in my opinion, showed a lack of Honor – but not upholding his word and commitments. As I read the books, I thought, “what an idiot” Ultimately he was not ready to be thrust in the position and failed his family and all the people that relied on him.
But Robb, we must remember, is the son of Ned Stark and possibly the most like him of all the Stark boys. Sorry but I have to disagree I see any ressemblance between Ned and Robb, Ned would have put his love aside and even his honour to protect his family and his country He called himself a traitor nowing that he was going to dye for his children I think that Robb should have married the Frey girl and his choice to marry Talisa was egoistic He knew the consequences and unfortunately he weakened his family by this…
An Jon Snow is the one who ressemble Ned the most Sorry for my english Im french 🙂
More information has surfaced on the Red Wedding, as the series has progressed since your post, Athlone.
It wasn’t *just* Frey being determined to get revenge when Robb reneged on his word about a marriage. Frey was most definitely a realist, and wouldn’t have been stupid enough to risk the wrath of the northerners, and loss of what little respect he had left among potential allies over a matter like that.
It gets revealed that the Lannisters paid Frey off to betray Robb. That was Frey’s key incentive to go ahead with the massacre. He could only risk antagonizing the whole of the north by committing a betrayal on house guests, and on a still-popular figure, if he had the funds to mount a defense, and had been promised a position in the alliance against the northerners.
It was an example of Lannister Realpolitik vs. Stark bush-league politics.
Whether House Stark has won or House Lannister has won depends upon the interpretation of winning.
If by winning one means being in power, House Lannister seem to have the upper hand currently.
But if by winning one means continuation of genetic material, House Lannister seem to be doing as badly as House Stark.
Just as Ned and Rob Stark have died, Tywin Lannister and Joffrey have also died. Tyrion is a outcaste from his family and Jaime is a cripple. Cersei is paranoid, Tommen’s safety is under threat and Myrcella’s safety is contingent upon Martell’s mercy.
From the socio-economic point of view, Jaime cannot legally marry and Tyrion cannot come back to Westeros. Hence, the direct branch of Tywin Lannister is legally dead. On the other hand, the direct branch of Ned is still alive.
Overall, I think House Stark is better placed.
“People work together when it suits them.
They’re loyal when it suits them.
They love each other when it suits them.
And they kill each other when it suits them.”
— Orell the Warg