Before Dr. Warren Farrell became one of the key figures of the Men’s Rights Movement, he was the only male board member of NOW (National Organization of Women), and a male feminist. When NOW chapters came out in support of universal custody for women in every divorce case, Farrell left the movement, saying they were anti-father and that, “I do not agree with choices for women when they eliminate choices for men.”
When Farrell began writing about men’s issues, he went from appearing on the Phil Donahue Show and Oprah to being called a “rape-apologist” by the feminists he used to support, and having his speaking engagement shut down by protests.
Warren Farrell has always said his work is about getting the genders to understand one another, communicate well, and live in a way that benefits men and women equally. His seminars frequently featured “role-reversal” exercises, in which men and women had to “walk a mile in the others shoes.” Men took on a women’s role, and women took on a man’s role, to give men and women greater compassion and understanding of the others experience.
The feminists LOVED him for the role reversal experiments he did with men, and HATED him for the role reversal experiments he did with women. After hearing both, it’s not hard to see why.
Role Reversal For Men
To understand the female experience, Warren had men participate in a beauty contest. Male contestants had to present themselves shirtless, and have women vote on who was the most attractive. The men were judged entirely on their physical appearance. (You can watch footage of one of these events here.)
At first, the men loved the attention. However, as men began to get voted off for being less attractive than other contestants, the men became self-conscious. They felt hurt and rejected when they were voted off. The men began to compare themselves to others and wonder, “Am I attractive enough?”
I don’t know a single woman who hasn’t wondered at some point, “Am I pretty enough?” Most women love the attention their beauty gets, and are also deeply insecure about their looks. After the experiment, the men had a greater understanding of the insecurity women experience around their body.
Role Reversal For Women
To understand the male experience, Warren had the women ask men out on a traditional dinner date. Women had to call the man, plan the evening, and initiate every step of the date. The men were told to be entirely passive, putting the burden of the evening on the woman. It was up to the women to risk rejection for any physical or sexual contact she wanted, with the men passively accepting or rejecting the women’s advances.
Many of the women said they were unable to listen to what the man was saying because they were so worried about getting rejected. Instead of connecting with men, the women found themselves constantly thinking “How do I get this guy not to say no?”
Every time I’ve told that anecdote to another man, he’s burst out laughing in recognition. Just as most women worry about their looks, most men worry about getting rejected. In Farrell’s words, men “take 150 risks of rejection from first eye contact with a woman until intercourse.” By taking the leading role, women were better able to understand the risks men take when approaching women.
The Results
While the men were willing to do the beauty contest – after all, the male experience involves constantly facing rejection – most of feminists, even after watching the men go through the beauty contest, walked out when it came time to participate in the role-reversal date. Warren’s “role-reversal dates” became one of the final straws that lead to his departure from NOW, and feminism as a whole.
Since Farrell began his exercises, the traditional dinner date has become anachronistic. Most couples now meet through hookup culture. However, men still are still expected to make the majority of sexual advances, with women signalling interest passively and waiting for men to approach them.
What Farrell’s work suggests is that men are not “scared of rejection” as some women like to suggest, as much as that their social role that requires facing constant rejection, and women would be equally if not more scared of rejection if placed in similiar circumstances.
Double Standards
While women’s issues with body image are constantly explored in mass media, very little has been written about men’s issues with rejection that isn’t demeaning or shaming.
Women are told that they are beautiful no matter what their body type is, and men are called creepy for even asking the question “How do I get a girl to have sex with me?” Telling a woman she doesn’t meet your physical standards is considered misogynistic, but if a women dislikes a man’s approach she is entitled to publicly mock him for seeking to connect with her.
Outside the manosphere, the only group that treat’s men’s fear of rejection with anything resembling empathy is the pick up industry. It’s not surprising given the amount of rejection men face, many pick-up products are marketed with bogus claims like “Never get rejected again!” or “Lines so powerful she can’t say no!” These claims mirror the marketing of the billion dollar industries targeting women’s insecurities with claims like “Lose 30 pounds in 5 days!” or “Look ten years younger!”
In recent years, feminists have tried to shame men for their physical preferences. Saying men should accept a woman regardless of her weight, is as absurd as saying women should accept a man regardless of his sexual advances.
Can you imagine if mass media treated men’s rejection issues the way they treated women’s body issues? Men would campaign for “creep-acceptance,” and be proud of their weak game. Rejecting a man’s approach would be considered “shallow,” when men bothered to approach at all. Some lone website for heterosexual feminine women would hold “creep-shaming week” in response to the poorly-dressed awkward losers men were transforming into.
Seeking Understanding
If women expect men to understand their struggles with weight and body image, they should also seek to understand men’s issues with rejection and game.
Most women who criticize men’s pick-up tactics have never tried to approach a stranger, win their trust, and ask them out. Women are less likely to shame men’s attempts to improve their success with women, after experiencing the male role.
Role-reversal can fun. In his book Why Men Are The Way They Are, Warren Farrell talks about going on “role-reversal dates” with women he knows where they exaggerate traditional roles – complete with her bringing flowers and him fighting “very hard against anything overtly sexual on our ‘first date.’” He says the experience is usually “hilarious” and “an amazing turn-on.”
The intention isn’t to give up roles, but simply to understand the others experience better. I love the role I have, I love women who enjoy playing the feminine role, and I wouldn’t want to change either. While a woman might sympathize with a man’s challenges with rejection, she is still going to chose the most confident and appealing partner, the same way a man who understands women’s body issues still prefers the most attractive women.
The way men feel towards ugly women is the way women feel towards men who give them “creepy” approaches. When women understand and care about men, they naturally improve their appearance, the same way men who understand and care about women naturally become more confident and less creepy.
Compassion Means Self-Improvement
Rather than lowering our standards, and promoting something as absurd as fat or creep acceptance, understanding means become the most attractive version of ourselves.
While Warren Farrell suggests men and women might be able to look past such things and solely at their partners capacity for love, unless biology changes, most men are going to continue to prefer attractive women, and most women are going to continue to prefer bold men.
Thankfully, both our weight and game are things we can change. I’ve personally transformed myself in both areas, and much of the writing on this site is about how men can improve both their game and their body.
Understanding is a two-way street. Ladies, if you’d like help dropping weight, I’d be glad to share what’s worked for me. After you’ve worked on your body, you can work on your understanding and compassion by planning an amazing date for us. Pick me up at eight. Bring flowers.
Read More: 5 Reasons To Date A Man With Cancer
Outstanding
Other role reversals I would like to see.
1. Woman proposing for marriage
2. Women paying child support and/or alimony while the husband is exempt
3. Female ‘pick up artists’
4. Women leading and picking up the bills of any date.
5. Women initiating sex every-time.
6. Women sole providing for a family, whether its through a 9-5 grind or building a business
If these role-reversals were enforced by the law/police. Feminism would cease to exist in a week.
On #3; The success of a Female pick up artist would be based primarily on her attractiveness divided by her standards of men; a five or a six could easily knock up a 100 notches over a wild year or less just by nature of being a women. The reason it’s an achievement for a guy is because he’s had to prove himself 100 times.
Female pickup artist?
An average girl could get herself fucked by walking up to any guy in any bar and saying – “will you fuck me”. Where’s the *artistry* in that?
a) Girl fucked by multiple Men = Shameful Slut.
b) Man fucks multiple chicks = Masterful Stud.
Reason… (a) is Easy (b) is Hard.
That is a good distillation. One is easy, the other is hard.
I had a very very cute 17ish blonde walk up to me in Vegas at The Boulder Casino near the food area and tell me she just broke up with her boyfriend and wanted to get laid. She was surrounded by 3 other 17ish girls who were various shades of fat/ugly. I was 21 and with a wingman looking for girls. I wondered where the cops were hiding, or if she had AIDS, or if they were going to sacrifice me to Satan in a hotel room, or have their boyfriends rob us at the first turn of a dark corner. I totally dismissed her and was really creeped out. But I’ve always wondered…
What would happen is that the top 1% of men per women’s SMV standards would be hit on by multiple female PUAs almost constantly and the rest of us would be left alone. If it difficult for a women to get laid because she will never allow herself to get laid in a way that in her eyes lowers her status. Sluts are selective percentage-wise, it’s just that it only takes a few in absolute numbers to debase a women for commitment value. There already is artistry in being a slut. They dress that way for the alphas because on the rare occassion that they see one, they want to be the one he picks. It’s the 99% of men they treat with contempt and offense like they should be able to dress however and not be treated like a piece of meat. She is a piece of meat only for rare alpha if she can entice him. The cock carousel is made of elite men per female hypergamy, which is an antiquated standard, but instincts are instincts.
(b) is not hard if a man is naturally attractive and does not come off as a mental case.
(b) is not hard if a man is not particularly choosy.
(a) is hard if the woman is not particularly attractive AND she is somewhat choosy.
The reason for the double standard as far as I am concerned is that men have to “pay” for their promiscuity, while women don’t have to.
You turned it down because it was too good to be true because it was so unusual. If anything that proves the point being made.
So we take an average looking guy and an average looking girl to a club.
For every girl the guy gets to agree to let him fuck her, I give you $100 and for every guy the girl gets to agree to fuck her, you give me $100.
Sound fair?
“The reason for the double standard is that men have to “pay” for their promiscuity, while women don’t”
It not a double standard – It’s just two quarters of the ancient sexual dynamic equation:
a) Girl fucked by multiple Men = Shameful Slut.
b) Man fucks multiple chicks = Masterful Stud.
c) Girl who hasn’t been fucked = Admirable virgin.
d) Man who hasn’t fucked = Shameful loser.
For obvious reasons bitter women find it convenient to ignore (c) and (d)
HARD LIKE MY COCK!!!!!!
I find it convenient that you ignore your latent homosexuality. You like the cock. Admit it. Especially mine.
Remember last night? You’re such a stud 😉
“I find it convenient that you ignore your latent homosexuality. You like the cock. Admit it”
LoL Funny how feminists (and their deluded male enablers) always claim to support homosexual men while wasting no opportunity of using it to shame and insult Straight Men.
Must take one hell of a hamster too pull that shit off.
One of the oddest pairings in the history of American politics is the alliance of male homosexual progressives and feminists. As any straight guy will tell you, most women have nothing but disdain for homosexual men: “What, are you… gay… or something?”
An unholy alliance if ever there was one.
Nothing unites like a common enemy, I guess.
Why are you so ashamed? We had so much fun last night, remember? We drank Shiraz under the stars and watched your favorite Audrey Hepburn movies. Then you pounded my tight ass all night long to the soothing melodies of Clay Aiken.
btw, if you want your hamster back just gimme a call, sugar! between you and me (hehe) he likes you better 😉
xoxoxoxo <3
17 is legal in Nevada.
Her friends dared her to do that. Had you agreed she would not have gone through with it. Kids these days….
“What would happen is that the top 1% of men per women’s SMV standards
would be hit on by multiple female PUAs almost constantly and the rest
of us would be left alone.”
Pretty much. That’s why I’m confused by the suggestion. But I disagree it would be the top 1% because those men are completely inaccessible to the public. It would be the top 20% of the best looking men any given area had to offer. They wouldn’t be 10s, they’d be 7’s, 8’s and maybe a few 9’s if they existed in said areas.
Oh but those men would not agree to date women 5 and below so why would your average American woman risk the rejection?
Therefore its completely ridiculous to expect average women to approach above average looking guys.
“An average girl could get herself fucked by walking up to any guy in any
bar and saying – “will you fuck me”. Where’s the fucking *artistry* in
that?”
There is none. Nor is that what the average girl wants.
First, men of quality with options are not going to run off with a strange, desperate woman who possibly has 3 STDs for all they know.
Second, the only men that would jump on a chance to sleep with a strange, desperate, possibly crazy and STD ridden average-looking woman are all of the above themselves (with the only possible exception being maybe they don’t have STDs).
What your average girl wants is the flirtation, the sexual tension, the build up, the romance, the dating, the relationship and the multi-orgasmic lovemaking with a QUALITY male – all spread out over time.
For sexual release she will get a million times more pleasure from masturbating than having a one night stand with a stranger.
Statistics show that casual hook ups do not result in orgasms for women. So if she’s horny and its an orgasm she craves, a woman will get that through mastubation, not anonymous casual sex.
I think the issue here may be that high quality men and average quality women have the same standards (high), while perhaps average quality men have much lower standards than either of those two. Or maybe average guys are being confused with below average guy. I find people tend to over rate their attractiveness levels sometimes.
I’ve had the same too good to be true fears. Some times things really are too good.
Way to prove my theory; they sponge up this homo-promotion crap because they like having men around that don’t hit on them, and even they recognize that homosexuality is perverted-but they’ll never say it.
You are making the common female mistake of thinking every discussion is about “what women want”.
Now here this : WE DON’T CARE
I would have done the same thing. Everything you mentioned (cops hiding somewhere, does she have AIDS, is she setting me up to be mugged, etc.) went through my own mind.
If it seems too good to be true, it usually is.
A female player is a woman who can get lots of free stuff without providing anything in return.
A girl who has never had sex can be seen as an admirable virgin, but there’s an expiration date on that label. A thirty-year-old woman who has never had sex isn’t an “admirable virgin” anymore, she’s a loser.
Don’t mess with anything under 18. They will find something and stick it to you.
@TJ.
OK, but there is a very big difference between a “Female Player” and “Female Pickup Artist”.
If men would just wrap their heads around the fact that women desire sex and men and stop ‘giving it away’ and adopting the same standard women did the entire paradigm would change.
No, women LOVE gay men.they They can let their hair down around them and talk about their real selves/views in a way they can’t around straight men and in a way that gives them a lot more pleasure then doing so to their straight female friends. It is only when their straight male friends don’t behave in the classic way they expect they feel free to use homosexuality as an insult (the same way in fact they don’t mind telling men to ‘man up’ and ‘stop being a girl’ when they don’t behave the way they want e.g. give up their seat, pay for dinner, walk them home, carry the bag, etc)
sorry but british side rant i’ve been wanting to say for years:
They have one female pickup artist. her name is Kezia and her greatest pick up is her male trainers and the many poor sap beta sycophants that join her cause.
look at her early videos and you’ll see she is a thick as shit ex stripper that Richard ‘gambler’ la ruina [beta male that managed to successfully hide his betaness long enough to work on his looks and indirect game to get a decent business up and running and a string of incredibly hot russian exes] hired as a trainer to make his business better [hot = sellable, marketable]. She as women are wont to do, broke free and makes a living wasting beta schlubs in the UK money and making them think she can teach men how to pull quality women. outsources all to her trainers who are idiots as well.
in my opinion its one thing to have the vestiges of this pua industry about [a lot of us got into red pill/old roissy/roosh/inmalafide/rok via pickup/seduction101 initially etc], i cant hate the oldies, they got me looking at the world differently.
but its quite another to have a ageing former fittie who can’t put two words together in a sentence without sounding like a complete div, sucking and leaching vulnerable idiots money because they think proximity to hot women immediately equals to learning how to game and affect one’s style to attract a greyhound [solid 9hot girl usually eastern european that would be of an attractive DNA pull to a man] to use krauser parlance
rant over. i fucking hate when women try to use the manosphere, to further their own ends.
its like that quote malcolm X said in response to the white liberal co-ed girl that said to him “What can i do?”
“nothing.”
Check out female pick up artist and current motivational speaker/EFT guru “Erika Awakening” – she once dated PUA Entropy of the blog “Post Masculine”. She named her blog “Post Feminine” after he rejected her. She has videos on Youtube and is easy to find on google.
Then there’s the new age chick who Ross Jeffries brought on board with her “healing touch” with videos of her “healing the sexual energy” of guys on a massage table without touching them. These claimed to have had orgasms without touch. She’s the disciple and promoter of some Black guy (of course) who’s Tantric methods are going to transform the world. Can’t remember her name but when it comes to me I’ll post the vids.
Then there’s the man who made the most money off of game, PUA guru David DeAngelo (Eben Pagan) and his bisexual wife (they have an open marriage) who is now a “relationship coach”. You can watch her videos online too but their wedding video is the funniest. You should hear their vows!
erika awakening is a level 1 retard. i once had her on my fb, she became whiny as shit and i subsequently deleted her.
yup new age sexual bullshit check
to be fair, i dont blame the guys, because they are just cashing in, but they really do themselves and their so called principals a disservice when they invite idiots along just because they’re side banging them on the downlow
Spot on. It’s like the difference between a compulsive shopaholic (slut sleeping with lots of men who approach her), and a master salesman (man who is able to seduce many women). Which one takes more skill? (question is rethorical).
Challenge accepted. I routinely do #4 and initiate sex half the time. As for the elusive #3, I will report back with my experiences of picking up women with my Alpha male.
Guest, if you are a woman, the point of our comments was that it’s not a challenge for any woman to get laid. It’s more a matter of standards, and how much you want to get laid versus your steadfastness for an ‘ideal’ guy who meets your checklist.
On #2 HAHAHA..this is hilarious…
No women will ever risk her finances (if she has more) with a man, no one.
Not true kirk! As a rather broke student who kinda has a thing for carrier women I can tell you, that women actually give a fuck what youre income is, as long as youre stick to the “commandments of poon”. There is not point like “have money” in it.
You make no sense, your grammar is horrible.
Of course all women care about your income. That’s not what I meant to say..
Still, not true. Not that simple.
They also care about ambition and potential income. I was supported for over two years by my girlfriend who studied and worked at the same time, while I was trying to put together my own business. I literally brought tiny little scraps to our household during that time, if I was able to bring anything.
“Still, not true. Not that simple.
They also care about ambition and potential income.”
Did I write in Chinese?
Potential, Ambition is all MONEY MATTERS
But potential and ambition are not cash or “income”, as you stated.
They may help you to generate money and wealth with time and hard work, but it is not given. How could she know that my business was going to take off? How many small businesses also go bankrupt during the first two, three years? Can’t the life of an entrepreneur be awfully unstable financially? Yet still kept supporting us. If money and cash was all that mattered, why would she do that?
It’s the potential and ambition they see that that matter as virtues, not only the income, money, cash, whatever you call it.
7. Women having no say in whether their unborn child they are carrying lives or dies.
Good point. If you read the Roe V Wade decision it is not about the inviolate womb, it is based on the premise that a) a woman should not be forced into what is basically indentured servitude and b) if a woman is not emotionally of financially ready for a child she should not be forced to have and care for one. Some of the examples they provide are if a woman is in school and not ready to end her education and settle down, if she has a career she wants to see through, if she has no emotional commitment to the biological father, etc. Note that those exact justifications do not apply to a man; while he cannot be forced into indentured servitude to carry a child for 9 months, he can be forced into indentured servitude for 20 years. He can be forced to give up his schooling, his vocations, his career, and/or any other choices available to him if they conflict with his primary involuntary servitude of providing financially for the child for the better and best part of his adult life.
Other role reversals I would like to see:
1. You proposing to suck my big black cock instead of begging every time
2. You paying to fuck my tight black ass and/or bringing me a fucking beer
3. Watching you take it HARD from gay black “pick up artists”
4. Shut the fuck up. You pay. Every fucking time.
5. For once *I* get to choose the gay porn
6. Get yo black ass back on the plantation and pick my fucking cotton. I ain’t providing shit for your lazy ass.
If these role-reversals were enforced by the law/police, you’d be getting whipped every fucking day. And you’d love every fucking minute of it.
SAY MY NAME BITCH!
7.) send a woman out to a straight club – dressed as a guy and with a strap on… to pick up a chick take her home and bang her…. she will lose her tiny mind…
Good post, Psquare!
Girl Writes What made some very good points by simply rephrasing statements from politicians etc and changing the words, ‘women/female’ for ‘man/male’. The below examples have been changed.
E.g., Barak O’ Bama, “A man can do anything a woman can with one hand tied behind his back”
I will NEVER get bored of the feminism bashing on here. Feminists are the biggest enemy of male freedom in the 21st Century due to their infiltration into the upper echelons of society and their success in the enactment of laws which criminalise male sexuality (out of the 750,000 registered sex offenders in the USA how many are men? How many couldn’t afford a ‘fair’ trial so had to accept bargain pleas? How many teenage girls (Katie Hunt doesn’t even have to register as a sex offender FFS) have had a slap on the wrist for something a boy would have been summarily (as in a bargain plea) convicted for?
Feminists are a joke, but their success and influence is very real, sexually (apart from child abuse which is blamed primarily at men anyway) there is very little a woman can do which she will face legal sanction for, including making false rape allegations. How many men are malicious enough to want a girl to go to prison for rape and/or become a registered sex offender just because they got drunk and regretted having sex with her?
Challenge accepted. I routinely do #4 and initiate sex half the time. As
for the elusive #3, I will report back with my experiences of picking
up women with my very own Alpha male.
Good points. That’s exactly what Feminism is today…picking certain inequalities (against women) only.
You never hear them argue about unfair court systems, signing up for the service, paying for dates (split bill at best), paying any support, or taking any kind of risks (those things are just fine).
Sure, women have their own money and women can make their own money (they’d just rather spend your money and save their money – sucker). They are very traditional in that way.
Feminist are only interested in pointing out issues that are deemed unfair to them. Issues like: men getting paid more than women…you know..that stuff (lol).
It cannot be stated often enough: Women DO NOT WANT to be treated equally, but it should be every man’s duty to do so.
It should be every mans duty to treat women equally? Do you mean equal as in the Feminist idea of equal where there are equal outcomes regardless of effort or ability, but only in situations when its desirable and where they dont already hold an advantage? Or actual real equality, where women are expected to fix their own cars and toilets, they only get jobs in which they can meet a mans standard of performance, and they pay for their own birth control?
The latter. Basically, any area where she wants special treatment, tell her “no way” because women are strong and independent.
I can get behind that.
I’ve got a role reversing exercise for them: cutting open an ABS sewer pipe to feed in a new drain, only to find your tenant’s fresh turd smiling at you. So where are all the female plumbers? Thought so.
Until men STOP being such pathetic betas and STOP supporting women? Women’s fascism will continue. Clearly, most men WANT to be treated like slaves.
Can you really blame the women for treating such pathetic men with contempt? They are cowardly betas and do not deserve respect.
Not only that, but their shit does indeed stink. 😀
Countless times I have plunged my hands into something as innocent as mud only for a girl to say “OMG so gross.”
Several of the girls I also the ones who say “I want to be a doctor!”
Here is how to stop feminism.
STOP SUPPORTING WOMEN.
Do not marry women. Do not date them. At most, fuck and chuck them.
And if you really want to go hardcore? Go MGTOW and drop out of society and go on welfare. Let the big strong independent women pay taxes and support men on welfare.
What man would voluntarily become dependent on the state just to prove a point to women?
I think the point is not to prove a point to women (never gonna happen), but to stop being a slave.
stop being a slave, by becoming a slave to the state? huh?
The two points are indeed, not mutually exclusive.
You miss something big: slaves work, welfare recipients don’t.
this fucking total loser ‘guest’ above, that’s who What a useless fucktard.
Everybody on welfare who is able bodied should be killed immediately for the sake of economic improvement.
I don’t buy into the only-women-are-insecure-about-looks paradigm. Even back in the 70’s, men were aware that women treated more handsome men better. What HAS changed since the 70’s is that women are openly nasty to unattractive men hitting on them while in the past society would look down upon such cruel behavior. Sexual harassment laws solidified the policy: If men “punched above their weight”, they could lose their job.
Feminism was never about actual equality since equality “for” one group is simply self-interest. It’s like me hiring a lawyer to enure the law protects me fairly. The lawyer doesn’t seek to protect my opponent in the courtroom fairly.
So since the 70’s, attitudes of modern women were that they should be openly as shallow as men about looks, want breadwinners, preferential treatment in law as victims, and use children to justify support. This leaves few men able to offer them everything they want and unable to accept responsibility for the mess, they take it out on men.
Radical feminism reminds me of the Chicago fast food workers demanding $15/hr. They weren’t requesting an increase in minimum wage; they just wanted their industry to pay more. What about the people who work in the grocery store? Should Chicago still pay them minimum while fast food wages double?
For one, that’s simply tribalism in action. Take care of your own.
Second, if wages in one sector of an industry rise, others will have to rise to keep up.
That’s why wages are higher across the board in states that have a strong union presence than in states without them, even for non-union workers.
Of course not. The grocery store workers will just quit and go work at the fast food joints. What then would the grocery stores do to replace the workers? Raise the grocery store workers starting wages. Basic economics of labor supply and demand..
Not really. Fast food jobs are very much a minority of lower paying jobs. Basic supply and demand models would indicate that fast food employers would only employ people worth making $15/hr. Remember, demand has influence on reducing cost and supply has influence on raising cost.
If we look at your approach, then wouldn’t white men be receiving full ride scholarships because white women are? I don’t see that as what is actually happening.
awesome article. now i’m waiting for the chorus of boos from bitches who only equate ‘gender equality’ with ‘prefferential treatment for women’.
Strange thing with this, the more a woman shows interest, the less a man wants her. Women know this, that’s why they freaked.
“…the more a woman shows interest, the less a man wants her *for a serious relationship*.”
Fixed that for ya.
There is a difference between ‘showing interest’ and acting desperate. If a woman wouldn’t show interest (give the green light) we wouldn’t approach in the first place. Everything presented to you with too much fervour – at initial stages – will be perceived as low quality. Same, by the way, goes for women. As guy obviously trying to sell himself is uninteresting/annoying to a female.
Everything other than how many facebook “likes” her instagram selfie got is uninteresting/ annoying to a female.
That should read: “Strange thing with this, the more a[n average or below-average] woman shows [propensity for creepy entitled stalker behavior], the less [the apex alpha stud that’s out of her league she’s creaming for] wants [to deal with] her [bullshit].
Fixed!
Warren Farrell courted by feminists as long as he was useful to them. As soon as he starts to stand up for what he believes in, he is discarded by them. I’m sure this sounds familiar to some men out there.
Contrived phrases like ‘being a real man’ etc are used by women to shame men into acting in ways that benefit women. Game is required to maintain a balance, which actually challenges women to the extent they generally require.
The trivialised word ‘rape’ is bandied about all over the place by women who’ve never even come near to the experience (speak to real rape victims & see how differently they speak about rape), affecting men subconsciously to even fear expressing their attraction to women somehow.
But yet male afflictions, such as the fear of rejection or how they deal with self-esteem issues aren’t even ‘brushed under the carpet’ – they’re simply not acknowledged at all by anyone. And we wonder why male suicide is higher than it’s ever been.
Thank you for introducing me to the work of Warren Farrell.
When a bird inevitably utters the old reliable “be a man” reply to her, “what the fuck does that mean?”. Watch her squirm looking for an answer. Most times she will reply that it means doing whatever her hamster brain wanted you to do in the first place. Call her on her shit behaviour and she’ll soon learn you’re not a push over. If she doesn’t time to say bye bye.
To the Modern Woman, the phrase “be a man” means “be my tool”.
And “tool” (in this sense) means “something that is used and then discarded when it is no longer useful”.
every time I do the role reversal exercise I feel like a chump asking a tart out…
From an alien perspective this is what we look like:
1) Male works 40+ hours to make a living like a slave
2) Male asks female out
3) Male makes the plans, pays for it all with his blood, sweat and time
4) Male hopes to get access to female vaginal hole for 15-30 mins
5) Female opens her legs for male for 15-30 mins to access her hole that will always be there and can be given away for FREE
This whole thing is insane, it’s like paying for OXYGEN.
Worst part is that 90% of the time the sex wasn’t worth the time/chase/hassle and the man has to repeat the process with another female
That ‘hole’ is by no means free as the woman risks pregnancy while the man risks nothing. Of course our modern world has changed the game a bit but still we can’t just ignore our biological instincts.
Not with 11 forms of birth control including abortion. It’s fairly “free”. Considering what men traditionally go through.
Abortion is one of the most traumatic experiences I’ve witnessed friends go through, and in a long term way. It’s scary to see someone who seems to brush it off as an easy solution.
To hear the feminists describe it, abortion is no more ‘traumatic’ than having an ingrown toenail removed. After all, (according to them) you’re just having some extraneous tissue taken out of your body.
And since they’re women, feminists NEVER lie, do they?
Show me, actual examples, not your vague recollections, where someone describes abortion like that. If any individual has ever described the process of having an abortion in those terms, they are an anomaly. There may be arguments about the “start of life” but those are part of a completely different conversation, and directed towards keeping abortion legal. The process from the few people I’ve known who’ve gone through it was anything but benign, emotionally.
Also, who says women never lie? Women are human beings, just like men. Humans lie sometimes – all humans. It’s not a gender thing, it’s a human thing, much like everything ultimately is if only people weren’t too stupid to see that.
I’m a doctor, so spare me the nonsense of “traumatic experiences” as it relates to abortion. Abortion is a choice, and it quite often used in lieu of early contraception. The choice may be difficult, but it’s still a choice.
Unlike, say, chemotherapy treatments or surgical debulking of tumors or the spinal cord injuries; none of which are choices and all of which fit the bill of a “traumatic experience”.
You conflating true traumatic experiences that patients go through with what amounts to a belated contraceptive choice is what’s absurdly scary.
Who says women never lie? As it relates to sexual assault and rape quite a few people, including people who head publicly funded centers and testify to just that –
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/posters-say-some-women-lie-about-sexual-assault-1.1355900?cmp=rss
Needless to say, it’s a feminist organization. Publicly funded, of course.
“There may be arguments about the “start of life” but those are part of a completely different conversation”
Uh, no they’re not. They’re about abortion. One can’t, on the one hand, argue that abortion is this horribly traumatic experience that no woman should have to go through, and then, on the other hand, argue that it’s really no big deal because the process only involves a non-sentient ball of tissue so shut up conservatives (who are arguing exactly the first point).
It smacks of hypocrisy.
And once again, the entire process is a choice that a woman can make unilaterally as a belated contraception. It’s not even close to what actual patients go through for diseases from which they didn’t choose to suffer. Spare us the hackneyed feminist mantra “we women are victims even though we made the choices that made us unhappy so society’s fault!!!” routine — it’s getting insanely old.
“Of course our modern world has changed the game a bit but still we can’t just ignore our biological instincts.”
Yes, but you appear to be reducing the effect of the modern world to “a bit”. It hasn’t changed the game “a bit”; it’s flipped it on its head. Women can now have sex with any dumbass they want (and get cultural cover from the academic thinkers in the land), birth his children if she wants (or not), and expect to have all of those choices subsidized by the cadre of men who pay taxes that subsequently payout to said women via government spending. That’s unprecedented in human history.
Still a ‘bit’ as most women just have sex with the most attractive/powerful men. In other words women are still pickier when choosing partners (because they have more to lose/are taking the greater risk). If anything men must work even harder and do more if they want women to have their children now a days seeing as women can just get abortions if they don’t want the child.
Actually, women merely now don’t view providers as being attractive. If you go to poorer countries, that’s simply not the case. The idea of “power” has switched away from providers.
We’ve effectively created a system where imbecile men are rewarded because we carte blanche have given women virtually every sexual right without the concomitant responsibility associated with those rights. As a result, women are free to bang psychopaths and short term lovers. So yes, men don’t have to “work hard” to be a provider per se, but they have to “work hard” to act like imbeciles to get sex.
Well that’s what I’m saying women just go for the actual ‘alpha’ instead of the ‘beta provider’ so yes the ‘hole’ is still of higher value.
“That ‘hole’ is by no means free as the woman risks pregnancy while the man risks nothing.”
Joker. So unwanted pregnancy is a risk for women but not for men.
yes, men only risk something because of our modern societies’ laws however on a biological/instinctual level they do not risk much this why a man will generally have sex with any woman willing while women are far pickier.
A hole is a hole.
We don’t have ATM slots attached to our bodies.
Yes but women are taking a higher risks when it comes to sex so it it only natural that they would be the pickier sex an thus demand more. This is true for almost all mammals especially those closely related to humans.
No cost for her? Refer to above comments about a woman’s sexual history as qualifying her as “not mate worthy” or whatever weird terminology is used for that idea, at a relatively low number of sexual partners. At least be fair and acknowledge a cost that is one that you can recognize as valid (though, there are many others I suspect you’d quickly dismiss as frivolous because they rely on different values than your own, this doesn’t mean they aren’t valid, it just means you don’t understand why they are valid). From an alien’s perspective, I’d say that you’d sound like a whiney entitled brat who assumes that women don’t (as a rule) do the 40 hr work week, and that buying a meal entitles you to use her body. Why don’t you make women split the bill if it bothers you so much?
Really solid article that even a level-headed feminist (oxymoron) would have to agree with were they really about equality.
The funny thing is, I feel like we all grow up hearing about how fantastic women are at empathizing. But that it’s something men need to be taught to do (ostensibly by a woman). But the truth is, women seem to be very limited when it comes to empathizing with men. All they know is how men are “supposed” to feel.
Whether it’s solipsism or stubbornness I do not know, but most women really seem to have never given any thought whatsoever to what the male experience is like.
It’s solipsism with just a hint of War Brides syndrome.
http://therationalmale.com/2013/11/13/empathy/
How about a role reversal exercise where an all female platoon goes for a simple drive in a neighborhood like Ramadi, Iraq? The goal is simple, come back in one piece. Women don’t really believe in equality. They are cherry picking the parts they like and avoiding the dirty and dangerous jobs men do every day to keep society functioning.
Welcome to Bataan/Hamburger Hill/Ramadi.
As I am ever the chivalrous gentleman; ladies first.
Affirmative Action would warrant several thousand years of women only forces sponging up bullets with their faces while men chill at home of in the medical tents.
TJ nailed it.
beeing a soldier by your own choice – the professional beta…
I can recall getting into an internet argument about true equality with a particularly strident feminist who blasted me with “Men and Women will never be equal until a man gives birth!”
Since that ain’t happening because biology, it becomes pretty obvious that if they believe equality to be impossible, then they clearly have a different goal in mind, such as supremacy.
“Men and Women will never be equal until a man gives birth!”
One of the interesting things about argument by violent emotion is that its proponents never even realize that they’ve just shot their own position in the head.
Well said.
Great article! Thanks for writing this.
OT
Gentlemen,
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in civilisation, it expects what never was and never will be.”
Thomas Jefferson.
“No people will tamely surrender their liberties, not can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and virtue is present. On the contrary, when people are universally ignorant, and debauched in their manners, they will sink under their own weight without the aid of foreign invaders.”
Samuel Adams
“The only good is knowledge, the only evil is ignorance.”
Socrates
“Willful ingorance in the presence of knowledge is the measure of a bad person”
Mark Passio.
Now. How many men here know “Legislation is not law and you can rescind your consent to be governed by any legislation”?
That is the truth and yet, in the presence of this truth 99.7%+ of men in the west will willfully choose ignorance, meaning, refusal to accept that which is true.
You will not prove legislation is law and you will not prove it must be obeyed. You will, instead, deny that legislation is not law defaulting you to the position that legislation is law.
If you offer any words at all it will be “but if I do not obey the legislation the guvmint will hurt me” which is an expression of FEAR. And FEAR is the result of ignorance.
You men would do very well to watch this seminar. It is 8 hours long. If you expect to gain knowledge from 5 minute clips or articles you can read in 5 minutes? You expect what never was and never will be. Knowledge and learning takes time. If you accept that you have “a short attention span” then you will have such and your ability to take in knowledge will be severely limited.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7xIUXQgvE0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnr3hLbASTo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgtwzMntKFc
Thankyou Sir! some were unknown to me.
You are welcome.
“That is the truth and yet, in the presence of this truth 99.7%+ of men
in the west will willfully choose ignorance, meaning, refusal to accept
that which is true.”
Sometimes I have the feeling that the majority of men cannot handle the truth. So they live in a semi-real dreamworld and try to avoid any pain, hardship, responsibility, risk at all.
I have no respect for them. I quickly loosed my respect for my friends who acted this way after taking the red pill. I just cannot stand watching year after year as they atrophy and waste their time in this world. I give them advice if they ask me, but 99,9% time they just ignore what I say and carry on doing what they were doing before.
“Sometimes I have the feeling that the majority of men cannot handle the truth. So they live in a semi-real dreamworld and try to avoid any pain, hardship, responsibility, risk at all. I have no respect for them.”
Pretty much my experience too. My best man has two sons. I pointed out to him that he is letting his sons down by not being willing to step up to my level. He unlinked me on linkedin for saying that to him. How sad a reflection is that on him?
His two sons live in the US….feminist hell hole where they could be falsely accused of rape any day…and where they will will almost certainly be raped in divorce…..and their own father, my best man, is not willing to say one word in their defense. Sad, sad, sad.
The Role-Reversal Exercise for Women:
1. Invent Something.
(Excuses for slutting don’t count)
Here is a chainsaw…. cut down a tree without it crashing onto the house….
What about Spanx? Lol.
Useful to whom? Falsely advertising a toned body, then peeling away the sweaty layer of overengineered spandex to reveal a festering Dunham-esque mass of cellulite is not exactly what I’d call “useful.” Useful bonerkiller, maybe.
Yikes. Brutal. We usually drop that nuke when there are absolutely, positively no other options of winning… and we win arguments 99% of the time.
Women have invented:
* Apgar tests (testing baby’s health when they’re born)
* Circular Saw
* Dishwasher
* Electric water heater
* Life Raft
* Medical Syringes
* Windshield wipers
The list could go on, but those are everyday items that we all use.
Oh yeah, women also invented beer, which is what I understand to be a manliness staple.
Even this pathetically little list isn’t true.
*Medical Syringe: Charles Prayaz 1853
* Life Raft: Ancient
* Circular Saw: Samuel Miller England 1777
* Electric Heater: Thomas Edison 1883.
PS. The dish washer has proved to be a step backwards for humanity.
“Men would campaign for “creep-acceptance,” and be proud of their weak game.”
That’s hilarious and truthful. That would be the ultimate troll move to use feminist tactics against themselves.
I’ve heard of this Warren guy before. Finally he realizes that feminism doesn’t care about men. But from what I see he’s been promoting feminist ideas for dozens of years and corrupting the minds of thousands of people, then only when feminism is starting to fail he changes camp. He’s been a massive supporter of these ideologies and he’s been an important activist that created the problem, yet I see no apology on his part. Seems to me like he’s just like the other opportunists who caved in to feminism to get pussy in return.
For the last twenty years, Warren Farrell has been one of the founding members of the MRA. From what I can tell, he became interested in feminism because he deeply cares about people, and was told that this was what you had to believe and practice if you respected women.
Remember the Toronto protest video? That was his talk. If we was an opportunist, he’d have stayed with feminism. What he’s doing now is costing him money to act on principle.
Well if feminists still hate him and they’re trying to shut him down, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.
Or maybe he was naive and stupid. Some men really do value justice and fairness. It’s not always about female validation.
There’s a PUA that goes by “Mehow” that has been giving “girl game” advice.
Seems somewhat appropriate, since he strikes me as a big ol’ pooftah.
runsonmagic,
if you dated eastern european women you would find out that women understand men perfectly well. They just do not want to be nice people to us. That’s all.
They actually do not care about us and do not care about our feelings. Most men simply can not face the truth that women do not care about men like men care about women. Not even my fav#1 really cares about me. She cared about what I might provide.
I covered this in my first book three years ago.
Let me make this clear to all you young men who read this. And any RoK writer can quote me on this.
“Women do not care about men, they care about what the man provides, the man, himself, is irrelevant.”
http://www.mensbusinessassociation.com/Forums/tabid/752/forumid/84/threadid/836/scope/posts/Default.aspx
Gentlemen. Women understand men perfectly well. They understand you better than you understand yourself. And they use that understanding to lie to you and manipulate you to get what they want. They don’t care about you at all.
I think it is safe to say that in my life I have never met a woman who actually cares about the man she claims to love at all. Not even one. Not even my mother.
That is really sad, not even your mother? There are many people with good relationships with their parents who would say otherwise.
Offspring and “the man she claims to love” are different relationships.
The famous words, “Come back with your shield, or on it,” were spoken by a mother to her son.
“That is really sad, not even your mother?”
My mother wanted grand children and she had three sons. I was her third try and was supposed to be a girl in her eyes. So with three boys and wanting grand children? She had to lie to us about the nature of women to have a chance of getting her grand children.
And by the way? I (allegedly) had a daughter. Josephine Marguerite Nolan. Facebook below. Mum was delighted and converted my old bedroom to “the princess room” and really went over the top with Josie when she was a baby.
When my (alleged) son Joshua came along she did not pay him much attention at all…when I pointed this out to her she commented “I already had three boys” so Joshua did not get a lot of attention from my mother.
This is just how women are. I do not make my mother wrong for this any more than you would make a dog wrong for barking. It is what they do. Women don’t care about men. They care about what men provide. Period.
The world would be a better place if women just admitted this rather than to go on with all their lies. It is the lying that I object to because my mother told me “honesty is the best policy”. Sadly, women do not hold their daughters to the same standard. Look at Jennifers perjury. You don’t see ANY woman saying she would be held accountable for perjury.
https://www.facebook.com/josie.nolan.16?fref=ts&ref=br_tf
Peter that is dissapointing, I am taking Russian lessons for the explicit purpose to travel to Russia/Ukraine and get on some of those bitches. Are they really that bad? I heard they were better… What is your experience with them?
Hi Steven,
perhaps you misunderstand me…I re-read the comment and it does come across harsh. Eastern European women are wonderful and I enjoy their company very much. I have sung the praises of these women so much even one of my russian woman friends criticised me! LOL!! My experiences have been excellent. My favs#1/3 have been the experiences of a lifetime. Much nicer than when I was married for 18 years. I am both very pleased and very sad to have had those experiences because I sincerely doubt I will ever meet another woman like those two ever again.
The ones I have dated (which is not an exorbitant number by the way so it is just my experience) have been honest to a fault and have treated me very well. But they are very clear that it is not me they are after, it is what I can provide for them that they are after. And that is perfectly ok by me. I know it sounds “harsh” but would you rather a woman be honest with you or would you rather her deceive you?
My fav#1 was quite open that she did not love me but she would marry me if I agreed to have children and pay for her and her children. Whereas a western woman will profess loudly and often how much they love you only to screw you over in divorce. Which would you prefer? I prefer the woman who is honest. Ok? My wife professed how much she “loved” me for 23 years and yet lied about me under oath to steal from me. That is what you can expect from ALL western women. With western women you have to ASSUME they do not love you and want to steal from you in divorce because 99.9%+ of them support women doing that, ok?
My fav#1 even told me to my face that if she agreed to marry me on the basis of no more children and she later changed her mind she would cuckold me. She said to my face “if you do not want to pay for any baby a woman has by any man you must not marry that woman.”
That is brutally honest. And that is what you will get from the best of them. Sure, some of them are still going to be deceivers. But a good proportion of them will be very honest. When I meet women now I put all this on the table inside the first few minutes of meeting and if she is not prepared to accept that I know what women are really like I end the conversation quickly. I will note that by the standards of most men here I do not meet that many women. Some of my favs have been quite shortlived. It is not like I am out on any regular basis trying to date women. That is just not me.
Most of the women I meet are perfectly happy to admit that for them they are looking for a husband to provide for them and their children and that “love” is optional. And by they way? Now that she has given up more babies my fav#1 actually admitted that she would have married me for support for more babies but will not be with me without that because without the babies she would prefer to actually be in love with the man she marries, and that is not me.
So your time is well invested. You are much more likely to me a woman like my fav#1 in eastern europe than you are in the west….easily 100 times more likely. I wish you luck.
In case you missed this.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2540568/Single-mother-24-LIED-raped-ex-boyfriend-cover-shame-sordid-kitchen-threesome-two-men-just-met-pub.html
Yep..I saw earlier reports of that….the verdict is news to me. Thank you.
Women love the feeling you provide for them.
But not you.
My ex stated it clearly: “I just love how you make me feel”.
Actually, women quite honest sometimes, you just have to learn to listen.
Very true. But it’s human nature and it goes both ways. My regular girls also says she feels great when she’s with me. Obviously she keeps coming back because I give her a good time. Likewise, I keep seeing her because she’s fun to be with and gives me mind blowing sex. If we didn’t give each other those feelings, we wouldn’t have much reason to see each other.
The world has its own cold, hard logic and only cares about what value you represent and provide. Accept it and embrace it.
“Obviously she keeps coming back because I give her a good time.”
Nope..she keeps coming back because she is lining you up to pay for her and HER babies.
Maybe her instincts prod her that way .. I’m not gonna let it happen though. The moment she demands things I made clear I will not give, she’s gonna hit the bricks 😉
I don’t think they understand men all that well. It’s not because doing so is all that difficult, it’s just that they’re not very smart. Remember when you were a child. Was it very easy for you to understand that others were people too and put yourself in their shoes? Probably not because children are egocentric. Women are the same way, which is why you treating them like fully grown adults is a mistake. It also means that women themselves won’t comprehend their shortcomings because they lack the full male cognitive experience.
“I don’t think they understand men all that well. It’s not because doing so is all that difficult, it’s just that they’re not very smart.”
Men are not very complicated.
Awesome article. Yet again even more evidence of the double standard the western man is subjected to.
Once you see women as overgrown children who need to be controlled by the only adult in the room (men) then you cease to be frightened by their rejection. It’s only men who put females on a pedestal and treat them as equals that live in terror of a woman’s judgement.
In other words, being a man means changing your mindset to a master and commander of woman. This feels so forbidden and wrong to most men that they’ll never experience the social freedom that comes with being a dominant and unapologetic man.
Good insight. Hope to see more of your comments here bro.
True, true.
Woman: The Most Responsible Teenager In The House
http://no-maam.blogspot.hu/2012/06/woman-most-responsible-teenager-in.html
Are women afraid of rejection? The chance of any decent looking girl being rejected is so slim, that I don’t see why they would be. For every guy that rejects her, there are probably 100 thirsty guys who would jump through hoops just for the opportunity.
100? An attractive woman has enough beta males willing to sever limbs and fortunes just to be near them that you could repave all of new york with bloods and guts instead of steel and concrete.
Nah — you do it with the guy the girl wants to have a committed relationship with i.e. the one in which she has some investment in not losing. She’ll fold like a lawn chair with all of the fear of rejection.
that guy who rejected her has both higher actual value and perceived value than 80% of those other guys.
Words that liberals use to beat Alphas down:
rape
misogynist
Holocaust
Nazi
bigot
racist
homophobic
Beat the liberals to the punch, next time you identify a liberal who wants to insult you say “What’s next, are you going to call me a naziwhowantstokill6millionjewsandrapeannefrank ?”
( Nazi-who-wants-to-kill-6million-jews-and-rape-anne-frank) (I think that pretty much covers everything on your list)
The trick is to spit it out a one long word, it steals the wind from their sails, so to speak.
The look on his face alone is worth it.
Yes. lol funny thing is this dumb femmy bitch even called one of my black friends a nazi
Now that’s a dumb move.
God, the ignorance of these bitches boils my blood sometimes. And they have have the right to vote, that is what frightening.
…Holocaust?
yes. Whenever we say something against the evils of Israel or the Jewish bankers, they like to say “my grandpa/grandma/aunt/uncle was killed in the Holocaust and you are a nazi prick who just hates jews because they are different.”
I don’t. I say you’re a Nazi prick who just hates Jews because they are bankers. Antisemitism is mostly anti-capitalism.
Oh, really?
Marx: Jew
Lenin: Jew
Trotsky: Jew
Albert Kahn: Jew
Chomsky: Jew
Alinsky: Jew
Funded by
Rothschild: Jew
Goldman: Jew
Sachs: Jew
Yes, really.
That Jews are *also* often anti-capitalist doesn’t contradict that. In fact there is the very related phenomenon of the self-hating Jew.
Read Marx’s “On the Jewish Question” to know what I mean.
Best way to beat this, AGREE and AMPLIFY
soo you say MRA > Alpha+
Follow me into a dragon pit and watch me slay. My sharp Excalibur forged in far away Don’tgiveashit land obliterates libtards and feminazies alike.
nice article, there is a great lecture with Dr. Warren Farrel on youtube. (it pops out at the side if you watch the link in this article)
Hmm maybe women find men who try to learn ‘game’ creepy because it’s inauthentic kinda like fake boobs at the end of the day all of that stuff is false advertising and everyone just wants the real deal. Anyways this was definitely a good read.
There isn’t anything substantial that women find “creepy” aside from “dude she’s not attracted to”. Ala the SNL skit, if Tom Brady or Brad Pitt ran “game” and were explicit about doing so, quite a few women “creeped out” by “game” would be undressing as they spoke.
And yet men can get just as creeped out by creepy guys as women can.
If you can’t, you might be a creepy guy.
Women don’t really find guys learning game creepy.
Women use the word “creepy” to shame Men into acting in ways beneficial to them.
Women’s prime dating strategy is to keep Men as honest as possible, while using every underhanded trick in the book themselves.
That’s why women’s favourite dating advice to Men is “just be yourself” – While they are wearing an inch of make up, false hair extensions, 6 inch heels, push-up bras, body shaping underwear and any other trick to con you with.
Any time a chick pulls that “you’re creepy” crap, just reply – “Really, you’re the one in the mask”
“Women use the word “creepy” to shame Men into acting in ways beneficial to them.”
Certainly, which doesn’t alter my point in the least.
I’ve got to admit you’re right. Genuinely creepy guys–not just a man a woman doesn’t find attractive–do creep me out. By creepy guys, I’m talking about the guys who are super desperate and are major suck-ups to women. Learn some self-respect dammit! Pussy isn’t the end all be all.
Not really. Men don’t walk around calling other guys “creepy” in my experience, and the connotation of the word is primarily on males. It’s tantamount to the word “slut” — yes, men can be “sluts” as its putatively defined, but it’s certainly not remotely the same connotation as when it’s applied to women.
Regardless, that doesn’t invalidate the point that what women primarily mean by “creepy” is “dude she’s not attracted to”.
Again, Tom Brady or Brad Pitt could be executing the EXACT ACTION that’s being called “creepy” and it’d be considered “attractive” (or, at the least, neutral).
As a guy, you’re taking your cue on whether the man you find “creepy” from the woman’s response, not your own. And a woman effectively defines her response of “creepiness” based on whether she finds said man attractive or not.
This explains everything:
My point exactly, if a woman isn’t attracted to you putting on fake game won’t do anything because its not the game that attracts her but the genuine “alpha-ness/confidence/sexual attarctiveness” of the man. Thus, the fake game comes off as desperate.
Uh, “alpha-ness/confidence” IS game. It’s just that fame and/or power allow for more leeway in how much you need to learn game. But even a non famous, non conventionally attractive man can be insanely more attractive if he were more “alpha” and “confident”, all other things held equal.
On the other hand, “Sexual attractiveness” is an effect OF game.
Not really, the reality dictates that some men will become more powerful then others, also some men will be more attractive then others. For these men this is not an act or a ‘game’ it is just who they are and so they will attract more women. Just as any woman can get plastic surgery but a naturally attractive woman will always be more appealing to men, a natural ‘alpha’ will be more appealing to women. Not to say that gaining confidence won’t help the average man (just as looking presentable and having a ‘feminine’ personality will help the average woman) but at the end of the day not all men (or women) can be number one.
I think you’re again confusing cause and effect. Yes, there are outlier men like Tom Brady, but no, that doesn’t mean that “game” doesn’t work.
For men, simple controllable personality changes have a far more outsized effect on their sexual attraction to women than the reverse.
I never said that ‘game’ can’t work but a Brad Pitt will still attract more women without game then average joe with all the tricks in the book. Also I still think people prefer what’s genuine I mean it’s one thing to gain confidence quite another to put on a complete false personality and I can’t imagine anyone feeling good about themselves if they think this is necessary to finding a mate.
Well yes, obviously there are some people that are born more attractive than others at baseline.
But no, the average joe CAN become as hot as Brad Pitt through attainable (though absurdly unlikely means) — he can become famous or attain an insane amount of wealth. However, he can start to veer in the direction of Brad Pitt’s hotness incrementally by using game maneuvers.
As an aside, finding and keeping a mate if you’re a man in this misandric family law laden society requires the careful study of game. Plenty of divorces can be avoided by using the methods advocated here and in other places (see Dalrock’s blog — a man who uses game and who is married).
Whatever I’m tired of arguing if you think some pickup lines and pseudo confidence can make the guy who checks me out the bagel shop as attractive as Brad Pitt then keep believing. As far as I’m concerned most pick up artist end up with somewhat slutty girls or they are playing naive girls. Neither situation ends in a meaningful relationship and the guys can never be true to themselves which I think would suck but to each his own I guess.
You’re not exactly arguing with me — you just keep insisting that I’m suggesting that “game” itself to an average joe leads to him being Brad Pitt. It’s a strawman. No one is saying that.
Teaching a man to have self-confidence, and to lead with lines that are interesting upon approaching women for whom he’s fearful of rejection isn’t a bad thing.
I never said self confidence was bad I also said that it definitely helps. But that game can be a turnoff to some women because it can come off as in genuine. At the end of the day I think it is better to stay true to yourself and find a person who appreciates that. A genuine good woman will want a genuine good guy. Being cynical and making assumptions about women may get you laid at the bar but may also ward off actually good women and leave you emotionally unsatisfied. In other words don’t be fake but do have confidence.
Actually I think that quite a few “genuine good” women won’t respond to “genuine” guys if they act “genuine” to begin with. That’s literally the ENTIRE crux of the problem. If women were to respond always positively with guys that walked up to them and said “I’m nice and genuine and like you, want to go out and build a relationship with me?” there’d literally be no need for “game”. “Being yourself” WOULD be game. But unfortunately, as most “genuine” guys know, what builds legit long-term relationships with women is NOT what builds initial short term attraction. PLENTY of good genuine girls don’t give those guys the time of day in real life.
That’s where “game” comes in — the lines, the different stances, the adoption of an alpha persona initially gets “genuine” men who otherwise would have been blown out by these “genuine-seeking” women a chance to develop attraction with those women. It overcomes that initial attraction block that virtually every woman instinctively puts up to weed out betas. That later can lead to comfort and relationship-y “genuine” stuff that said man is better suited at because now that he’s proven his attraction capability to her, she’s willing to let him be himself without penalty.
Show me a women who is not fake, than I might consider being honest.
Many women aren’t fake perhaps you attract fake women because you have fake game? After all like attracts like. If not, try to meet women at other places besides the usual bar/club or online scene this may help. And try being genuine because any woman who is genuine and honest will seek the same in a mate.
I was just on a jitney bus coming back to Jersey from New York City. Some drunk guy at the back of the bus tried to kick it a blonde 8. She went to the front of the bus to tell the driver. As soon as we leave the tunnel, the driver pulls over just outside of it kicks the dude out. The Port Authority Police come over and arrest the man. The bus ends up getting detained for half an hour while the police get statements from the driver and the blonde.
Everybody on the bus starts hating on the blonde, “you should have kicked his ass,” “why didn’t you go to another seat?”, “I have an appointment to make” “She doesn’t know how to handle men.” Most of these comments came from other women and some were said directly to the blonde. No one complained about the drunk man. They complained only about the blonde and the driver for his white knighting, since he stopped the bus and called the cops instead of kicking the drunk out at the next bus stop that’s 3 minutes away.
Other notes: I was two rows in front of the blonde. I didn’t hear what happened between them, so the dude wasn’t that loud or rowdy. I only felt the blonde shoving her way past me to get to the driver. In front of the blonde was an older black woman with a Jamaican accent who started ripping on the blonde after the cops pulled her out for questioning. She said “that bleach is messing with her head!” Outside there were like ten cops and three squad cars. Most of them doing nothing but standing around trying appear like they were.
Thanks Runsonmagic, I’ve haven’t heard of this guy before this article, but I can assure you this; the next lecture he has within driving distance – I’m There.
Best argument against fat acceptance I’ve ever seen. A smart MRA, hmmm. Interesting.
LMAO!!!!!!!! Men have absolutely no reason to try and understand how life is for women. “if you want to understand women, take away all logic and reasoning”- Jack Nicholson. Being overly sensitive to women is part of beta training and has NOTHING to do with being a man or Alpha. Men are predators, women are prey. Predators don’t care how the prey feels. The prey can never truly know what its like to be a predator. Predators hunt, and successful ones eat. Let the laws of nature rule!!
” Men are predators, women are prey”
Go sit in your local divorce court for a few hours and see who the predators are.
To be a successful hunter, first you must study your prey.
women are insane and predictable. they are easy to control and manipulate…if you always remain calm and control the situation.
Remaining calm and controlling the situation are the key points. If you’re in divorce court, you’ve already lost control because you got married.
Good point sir! Lol
Women did not evolve to value integrity, honesty, courage or honour. This does not make them insane but it does make them dangerous.
Every women no matter what costume she uses (classy, hipster, emo, nerd, jock, hippies, artsy etc..) will always be drawn to a real strong male.
That’s the reason why all women would f*** Clooney.
TRUTH!!!
Warren Farrell has become one of my surrogate father/male role-models (since my own father was a sad useless beta, also raised by a single mother, who didn’t teach me shit about being a man).
Another mandatory read by him is “The Myth of Male Power”, which will knock any feminist screaming “Male Privilege!!” right on their fat ass.
There’s a complete audiobook on YT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Raufh8fP8
LOL! Who’s that short little blonde creep to Mystery’s left in that photo?!?!
Anyway, I read Farrell’s 70’s era research on incest and he did make a few statements of “it sounds like its not so bad” and that’s what has freaked people out about him all these years, not just Feminists. Its online for all to read if you’re interested.
If he would come out an unequivocally denounce the bizarre statements he made in that book then I think a lot would be forgiven. Why hasn’t he done that? Its been decades already but every time he makes an appearance that research is trouted out so he’s had plenty of opportunity.
Well, what do you mean by incest first of all? Let’s assume parent-child and brother-sister sexual relationships count as incest, what else would you include as incest? Cousins, second cousins, uncle-niece, aunt-nephew, etc. It’s not even clear to begin with what constitutes incest and whether all of these types of sexual relationships are bad or not.
The most likely reason he doesn’t retract his statements is because he doesn’t think they’re wrong. People have different opinions about things. His opinions don’t mean he’s deluded or a sick freak. He just doesn’t think incest is that bad. Neither do I.
“If women expect men to understand their struggles with weight and
body image, they should also seek to understand men’s issues with
rejection and game.”
Fair enough.
“The way men feel towards ugly women is the way women feel towards men
who give them “creepy” approaches.”
Well here’s the problem with expecting women to approach. They will only approach attractive looking men, but what if those men don’t find them attractive? Why would a woman want to face rejection by an attractive man because he feels like she feels around an unattractive creep?
If you say, “she should approach men who are not good looking then” – well why would any woman want to do that? What if the not good-looking guy says yes and then she’s stuck going out on a date with an unattractive guy?
He should’ve had the women go first. What did Farrell expect to happen if he let the men do their part first? Of course they’ll walk out because of Briffault’s Law.
This is probably one of the best articles I’ve ever read on this site. Hopefully someday these ideas will be more mainstream
Another interesting thing in today’s world is that once intercourse was reached for a man, he knew he had the girl. Today it means shit.
But in contrast once a woman was of healthy weight and of decent look the man was satisfied and the woman was successful in being mate-able. Today that also means shit. (Articles like 5reasons to date a woman with an eating disorder are evidence).
This is something I did not know about Farrell. There was a looong article about him in a Salon (?) out of all places that basically portrayed feminists and mainstream media as a pack of hyenas. I also didn’t know he was with NOW. Good stuff
Sometimes this site puts out articles of such high quality it blows my mind. This was one of those articles. Thanks for your work.
When you get to my age you will realize that 80% of the time you spent in any pursuit involving women was wasted. Even the sex. Be interested in yourself first. Cultivate yourself.
Even as a girl I totally agree with this. I’m glad this was brought to my attention because it’s something I wouldn’t have thought about otherwise(:
awesome post. i like the game too. god I feel so good to be a man.
a man is can always work on his approach and thus rejection is less personal but a lot of times even if a girl is fit she is ugly and there is nothing she can do about it, so in that case rejection takes a much more heavy blow. That’s why it is cruel to casually rate woman and compare them to eachother. I’m not saying to totally disregard physical attraction, because that’s just unscientific, but men need to be more empathetic towards girls who lack aesthetics due to unlucky genes that they cannot help. Just be nice, dammit. That’s all. It’s ok to reject a girl but don’t be frickin cruel about it. Be understanding of the fact that almost all of our worth as women revolves around our level of beauty, something which we can’t always help, while yours just revolves on you guys working on your approach a little? come on now.
Why do they say ” Saying men should accept a woman regardless of her weight, is as absurd
as saying women she ould accept a man regardless of his sexual advances.”? In fact it is as absurd as saying she should accept a man despite HIS weight, height or finances. Men deal with physical rejection every day. The shaming is not just about weight; God HELP the man who dates younger women. I have female friends who yell at men they don’t know who are on dates with younger women, or the women telling them ‘you are the kind of woman who makes life hard on me”. If a couple has a male friend who shows up with a younger female girlfriend, invariably everyone is happy BUT the woman. The guy is happy because his friend has a new gf, the gf is happy because she has a new bf, the woman is pissed because his gf is younger. Why? Because she has “friends who can’t get dates with guys like him because he dates younger women”.. It is the first question women ask “How old is HE? How old is SHE?”. Heck Millionaire Matchmaker has enshrined the concept; the matchmaker ONLY chooses men who are multi-millionaires and introduces them as such at the meet-and-greet “Women meet my millionaires!”. Not meet the men, meet the millionaires. Then a gaggle of female hairr-stylists, school teachers and other middle-class paycheck to paycheck women vie to land the millionaire so they can live the lifestyle the could never have achieved on their own, i.e. the classic male/female paradigm. When the MEN adhere to the paradigm and choose the youngest/prettiest they are castigated by the matchmaker for being shallow and sexist. Why would a man worth $25 Million need to pay a woman $25,000 to introduce him to a 45 year old hair stylist who wants to quit her job and live the good life?
This article is good but doens’t even TOUCH on the double-standards of dating.
Interesting, Woman will defend to the death Homosexual behavior, But straight Men are considered creepy by the Man haters.
Creep thing is the mark of a cunt. Celebrate it and reject her letting her know “creepy” is chick talk for cunt.
This article writer’s logic is undeniable, which is why most females (if not all) will not understand it.
Sounds like a non sequitur right? Not when you consider that females do not operate on logic, but rather emotion.
To a typical female it’s not about statistics or even facts that matter, it’s how she FEELS about an issue that determines whether you are right or wrong.
How then dear reader, can you hope to emerge victorious in an argument against a female, when she has already disqualified your argument by virtue of her solipsistic emo-instinctual tendencies before it even begins?
For God’s sake, they can’t even understand something as logically simple as” lift your own damn toilet seat!” lol
Creep Shaming Week? It’s called “any given day” in the Angloshpere.
There are ugly women that can’t simply lose weight to improve their appearance. And fat women aren’t really ugly if they can lose weight and become attractive. In these discussions it’s “women” who are talked about (attractive women, where we are dismissed) or “ugly” women who can do something to change their appearance. Perhaps say “fat women,” instead of ugly women, or women who can do something to improve upon their appearance. I’m not saying you have to find us attractive. Just take us into consideration and acknowledge us. A lot of ugly women would be thankful for that.
“The way men feel towards ugly women is the way women feel towards men who give them “creepy” approaches”
The difference is that men can help these approaches to women while some women can’t help their appearance. But I can be understanding toward a man who is nervous around women. Again, I’m not saying you have to find us attractive. But perhaps you try not to find us repulsive.
ya me personally, I’ve always hated, detested, despised, loathed the gender role that guys have to make the first move, approach and talk to first, overall, be the initiator, never liked how it was one-sided