Several days ago I read with interest a story about a law school graduate who had sued her former school, the Thomas Jefferson School of Law in San Diego, California. The case made it all the way to trial, but the plaintiff, Anna Alaburda, was unsuccessful. The case is interesting for a number of reasons.
The essence of the plaintiff’s claim against the school was that the school had engaged in deceptive business practices, fraud, and negligent misrepresentation when it came to stating the employment figures of graduates. “But for” these “misrepresentations,” the plaintiff claimed, she would not have borrowed in excess of $100,000 to attend the school.
Alaburda claimed that she had at least in part based her decision to attend the school on statistics published in the 2004 edition of US News and World Report. Those figures claimed that 80% of the school’s graduates had found jobs within nine months after graduation. Those figures were arguably misleading, in that they included all types of jobs, rather than law-related jobs.
There have been cases similar to this one in other parts of the country, but it is very rare for them to go all the way to trial. In this case, the jury ruled 9-3 against Alaburda. They were obviously not convinced by her arguments.
Initial rulings in the case seemed to favor Alaburda. The judge presiding over the case allowed the case to proceed to trial, and even noted in previous rulings that the school’s employment figures which included all types of jobs were “meaningless in the context of a legal education.” However, the school was able to counter by showing that it reported its employment data “correctly” in that it comported with the method required by the American Bar Association and US News.
Indeed, the real statistics are hardly impressive. In 2014, graduates of Thomas Jefferson getting jobs that required passage of the bar exam was closer to 66%. Last year, the school reported that only 31% of its graduates found a job that required passage of the bar exam. Another 27% were still looking for jobs, and the status of the remainder was unknown.
The market for legal jobs has been depressed for years, but is starting to climb back slowly. Lack of employment opportunities is a real problem, not an imaginary one. One law school, the Brooklyn Law School, recently took the unprecedented step of actually offering graduates a refund if they were unable to find a job.
So it all depends on how the statistics are reported. It is revealing that law schools now have to reveal “true” statistics: that is, they have to disclose the figures for people who are actually getting legal jobs, without including people working as Starbucks baristas. The method of reporting has changed since Alaburda was in school, and this may be a tacit admission that she (and other similar cases around the country) had a valid point.
What went wrong for Alaburda at trial? One can only speculate, but in this writer’s opinion, she was facing an uphill battle from the beginning.
Educational institutions before the Great Recession, like the big banks, had been engaged in—to use the term delicately—selective reporting and cherry-picking when it came to public disclosure. Institutions took full advantage of the lax reporting rules. No one really cared because the whole system was awash in money.
But then the economy tanked, and things began to get grim. Any law school reporting its “real” numbers would look awful, so they all continued to do the bare minimum that the rules required. Was this ethical? Probably not, but the courts are not prepared to hold higher education accountable.
Alaburda herself, it must be said, was not much of a sympathetic figure, at least to this writer. During the litigation, it was revealed that she actually turned down a $60,000 per year offer from a Southern California law firm because they would not pay her bar dues (only a few hundred per year) and required a month of travel.
When I graduated from law school in 1998, I took a job as a rural prosecuting attorney that paid only $30,000 per year. No one gave me any jobs; I had to find them on my own, and had to move far away from home to get it. I supplemented my income by doing military reserve duty. I was single, had no dependents, no school loans, and was used to living an austere lifestyle.
And I wanted to learn how to do jury trials, rather than be one of those paper-shuffling office lawyers who couldn’t try a case if their life depended on it. Even then, I only did this job for one year. After that, I formed my own firm, and have been rolling forward ever since. For me it is a satisfying and rewarding career. I love trying cases, meeting with clients, solving problems, and advocating for people. But like any career, it is not for everyone.
The student loan problem is a real one, make no mistake. There is a justified sense of betrayal among graduates. This case was an interesting one because it did draw attention to a problem that has not yet been solved. I myself am currently litigating the bankruptcy dischargeability of a married couple (high school teachers) with over $260,000 in student loans, who have no hope of ever paying it off. The situation is grotesque, but until Congress addresses these problems in a coherent way, they will continue.
In the meantime, every person must do his or her own due diligence. The only person who cares about you, is you. Are there too many lawyers? Yes. Are there too many law schools? Yes. Do institutions skew things their way when they can? Yes.
But in my opinion, Alaburda did not have the go-getter attitude she should have had. She was not hustling, not being proactive, not being aggressive. I would never have sit around looking for a job for years. I would have done something, anything to get moving. Even if I had to go do something else, I would have done it. Who cares? What matters is survival.
She let opportunities pass her by. She failed to appreciate that no one out there is going to “give” her anything. Her failure to find a job was due more to her lackadaisical attitude, rather than the “deception” of the school. As bitter as the truth may be, no graduate is “owed” anything. I believe the jury also saw it this way, which is why the verdict went against her.
Read More: How To Cook A Steak
If you wanna pass any bs you can think of, ya gotta do it through women. Once women accept it, the rest of society follows along.
A well written article. I appreciate you filling in the details. It paints an important picture, and that is of the sense of entitlement assumed by some of those getting an education (in this case, the expectation of moving into a high paying field, and a lack of willingness to start at a more humble level).
I can’t see how she could show damages, at any rate. What was the intent of her suit?
Yeah I remember being extremely dissappointed when I completed my first degree program (before my later additional education) and struggling to find applicable work. I had to keep pursuing something marketable.
I don’t like an institution selling a “pipe dream”, but job availability is really up to the current market and economy, as any man who has put his nose to the grind has discovered.
I’m grateful for my education. Nobody helped me aside from subsidized loans, but I will never forget people in college with no concern for what they’d actually do for a living once they got the piece of paper; just floating along, assuming things would be good for them just as they’d always been. Then one day they have to make it in the real world…
Good comment.
I’m kind of sympathetic less for legal or moral reasons and more because I hate the educational complex in America.
I’m kidding; but only a little.
Most schools tell you functioning lies to induce you to get into massive debt for the product. You have to do due diligence, but…
In her case though no. $60k a year? What new grad turns that down in this economy?
exactly. I’m sure that angered the jury.
Maybe the defense attorney made sure that most of jury made less than that so they would have no pity for her.
It’s part of the millennial mindset, it’s either the jackpot or nothing.
I kind of wonder how much of the “millennial mindset” is propaganda though. I mean sure, these people exist, but I’m a millennial and I know most of my compatriots don’t think that way at all.
At the risk of “whining”, “millennials don’t want to work” is a boomer excuse for climbing the ladder and kicking it away. The economy is so damned hamstrung right now that the raw level of opportunity just isn’t what it was and all the positive thinking and hard work in the world can’t change that. There’s no excuse AT ALL for not trying, but I think millennials are taking a rap as a group they don’t fully deserve.
“Read more: how to cook a steak”
Only in ROK.
I got a good chuckle out of that too.
Why?
according to the article, steaks need to be fried in a pan.
She turned away a 60,000 dollar a year job. Her school did not lie. She was given a job, she chose to reject the job offer. Those figures would have easily allowed her to pay off that student loan.
If a food company can tell me that my breakfast cereal will lower my chances of heart disease, I certainly see no problem with a school promising that 6 out of 10 graduates will find jobs in a limited time frame. Besides, education always stand out on a resume compared to resumes of the uneducated.
She went into that court room hoping that the fact she was actually offered a career would not be brought back up. If I handled the case and found out this information, I would certainly reject the claim.
When people wish to work these careers, they must realize it sometimes take fees and sacrifice to work… In this case, that sacrifice was a month of travel and yearly dues that one should expect to pay.
We cannot go on debt and then demand others be responsible for our financial decisions.
Yes, I agree.
Looks like she can now add those court costs to her debts. I can just see this attorney yelling at her attorney “you double-crossed me, you’re all a bunch of crooks!”
Watch she’ll sue her attorney for false representation.
Nobody held a gun to their head. Fuck no.
I wish I could up vote this seven times
Should students be able to sue their schools if they can’t get a job?
Interesting question. I agree with Quintus’s article, there is no excuse for not being able to hustle and do whatever it takes to get a job. This is especially true for our entitled, narcissistic, homosexual/transsexual/degenerate admiring, special snowflake, speech restricting, authoritarian shit-fuck millennials. BUT, the reason we have entitled, narcissistic, homosexual/transsexual/degenerate admiring, special snowflake, speech restricting, authoritarian shit-fuck millennials is largely due to ACADEMIA! And so, its no fucking surprise that we have students making dumb-fuck career decisions because they’re NOT being taught anything practical. But they are being taught about lesbians feminism and to hate whitey. The media adds to this as well, apropos to lawyers, there is no shortage of miss empowered independent female ball buster dramas on tv designed specifically to encourage women to become lawyers, because at one point in the past lawyers were highly paid and prestigious.
Overall, I think students should sue and we should encourage them. Why? Answer: anything we can do to destroy establishment academia…we should be supporting. This is a welcomed development, because it demonstrates the failure of academia.
yep. and it will hasten the shit-fuck genetic dead-end millenials departure out of the gene pool.
Academia plays a small role in it. Movies and shows play a bigger role in it
Interesting article QC. My thoughts would be that unless you are 100% guaranteed a specific job, and then fsil to get said job, you have a case. But anyone (within reason) can go and get a qualification which theoretically sets them up for employment. But life doesnt work like that. You might be incredibly qualified, but have written the shittest CV an employer has seen.
My personal opinion is that too many people strongly believe the world owes them something. Sorry- it doesnt. There are no guarantees.
However interesting point re. misrepresentation of statistics. But surely that is so commonplace across every industry/debate ever that noone believes statistics any more?
I’m really not sure. Even though she had a pretty weak case, it is interesting that law schools quietly changed their reporting methods for stats. They used to be able to slop in every bullshit job their grads got.
Reminds me of the whole game that Wall Street and the big banks were playing with the regulators before 2008. Fudging the numbers or giving misleading numbers was the standard practice. But they could argue that they were not violating the letter of law (despite violating the spirit of the law).
Did the school offered those statistics for that given year prior to her enrollment. Basically the only data available at that time?
If the statistics are not what they are today, it may have been valid back then?
1. Someone with an interest in law, of all people, should know that statements like “80% of gradutates get a job” should be examined. This is basic stuff.
2. What are her grades like? Maybe she graduated with a shit GPA and no respectable law firm wants to hire her for that reason.
3. It’s your responsiblity to research the job market before you start a 100,000$ degree. Should gender studies graduates be able to sue their schools because they can’t find a job? Wait, actually they should. That’s a great way to run gender studies department out of buisiness.
In short, that sounds to me like she has a serious case of female entitlement.
Tits! Give her free stuff!
Did someone say tits? Hold on, let me pull out some free stuff!
I know exactly what kind of free stuff you are proposing to pull out.
That’s what Bernie’s campaign boils down to.
When they say 80% they really mean ANY job I guess, including flipping burgers and digging ditches.
Her body language is saying “take this”
The East Indian in the picture took her job!
1.) If you have an interest in law then you should know that if a school knowingly published false or misleading employment statistics, then they are absolutely at fault, irrespective of whether or not doing your own research is a good idea. They lie to get your loan money and then say “not our problem” when students end up life-fucked as a result of their lies. This girl appears to be a bad example since she allegedly turned down legal employment but thousands of others aren’t so lucky. These toilet schools should be shut down.
then they are absolutely at fault, irrespective of whether or not doing your own research is a good idea.
I think the point of this decision, and of other cases that didn’t even get this far is that legally speaking, and that is the only sense in which “absolutely at fault” makes any sense, the school is not at fault.
That’s true only if you think the courts are some infallible ultimate authority. I’m able to use my own mind to evaluate the facts. Most people who are familiar with the industry are appalled by these toilet schools and the scum who profit from the gullibility of the half-educated. If a private business lied this atrociously and their deceit cost thousands of consumers this kind of debt, they would have already been sued out of existence. But people are catching on to the con game (look at law school enrollments over the past 5 years) and it’s only a matter of time until the courts catch up.
“Gender Studies” has Lesbian written all over it. If a resume with that on it came accross my desk it would go right in the trash. Not discrimination. . . I owe to my employer to keep trouble makers and problem people out of the organization. Same with “African American Studies.” Both of those degrees have “misfit and disgruntlement” written all over them.
She graduated from a 4th tier law school. People who attend 4th tier law schools have limited job prospects even if they have stellar gpa’s.
I’m not a lawyer and I know this. How does a prospective law student not manage to find this out?
If we allow lawsuits from potential students who were deprived of a law school education because of their inability to not fall for marketing hype, then yes, she should be able to sue as well.
Entitled scrunt. After I graduated law school (T3 baby), I literally traveled to the ends of the Earth to find a job. Like, I worked for a year in a place off the road system where you had to fly into (yes, it was awesome). Now I got a cush job where those lazy slags call me your honor. Get off your ass Alaburda.
Finishes Law Skill. “I know, I’m going to use my new super lawyer powers to play the system!” I bet this bitch will live one of those patronizing lives where she is looking for every little thing to sue someone about.
America- we have 5% of the world’s population but 50% of the world’s lawyers. We need to start exporting lawyers, like a reverse H1B visa-type program. Send em to Sri Lanka already.
These lawyers wouldn’t survive there. The local folks there would just laugh at their faces because the people outside the US don’t have that entitled mentality.
Sweden, then?
If you’re going to use your law skillz to play the system, do it for something worthwhile – like becoming a church so you can do peyote.
Or she becomes a politician
It depends on the potential for job growth. Colleges/universities give out too many degrees in fields with limited potential for growth, like education, for example. In my view this is wrong, but that doesn’t stop them from making money off it.
On a side note, what happened to the Return Of Kings podcast?
I still do podcasts over at my own site.
I dont feel sorry for this woman. The job market for lawyers hit the wall around 96 or 97. How do I know this? Im not even a lawyer. I just stumbled across a few blogs which pointed this out. Why wouldnt you do the research on your job prospects in the future before signing on the dotted line for those grad school loans?
This statement is false. The corporate legal market was at its strongest in the 2000s right up until the 2008 crash.
Everyone needs something fixed, all those people doing the fixing need a supervisor with field experience and there is a severe lack of both in the world right now. I smelled the lie about college when I was in high school. Was a draftsman apprentice and apprenticed carpenter.
evidently, she still made enough money to buy a lot of food.
6.4/10 WB
Having advertised the fact, she may well sue you if you fail to make good on the offer
I actually quite like these less polemical articles: they help focus attention on the actual issues. A good rant is great fun, but it rarely advances the debate
I did not know she passed the 60k job. Still though, I wanted her to win so that the school would be held responsible for their twisted truths.
Even if it was 80% Legal jobs that still doesn’t make it 100%.
No, students should not be able to sue schools instead they should make better choices and not lay blame on “sahsaaytey”, which is quite feminine and exactly the behavior we as a Red Pill community wish to diverge from.
This isn’t to say your better choice will always pay off, but when you evaluate your options critically ie cost-benefit analysis you proceed knowing full well, should this fail this is the depth of the slump I’ll be in.
They give you an education. It’s the graduate’s job to figure out how to use it in the real world.
She had a chance to make a living as a lawyer and screwed it up. She has no pity from me, she made her choices and must deal with the consequences. Her case does have some merit to trend we see in Higher Education. The Education Establishment has created in the notion to get ahead in life, one must have college degree. A degree that was suppose to advantage has become a albatross upon the necks of many adults to uncertainty future with posterity.
Many of those people who did not take red pill, have the belief if they follow the rules, they should be reward for being obedient. This is what is taught to young by our supposed ‘wise’ elders. As soon be leave the safety of academia, the real world break illusion we are told. In sense, this modern day impiety in action. Student are not being sharped and hone to become producers of society, but source that dies slowly by the parasites of the world. We told lies and punished when we follow the rules. For some of us, we take bitter red pill and understand there is greater game being played among us. Others will wallow in despair.
Towgunner77 said in his comment, Academia has been selling a pipe dream and it will not stop. Parasite don’t stop until its host is dead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c5ntRwfKD38
Never heard of a school saying they guarantee a job. Only ‘help’. Unless you get a promise in writing you have no case. Guaranteed outcomes are for socialists. And then you get guaranteed mediocrity for everyone.
YES we should. That being said, when I was teaching ESL in Korea, the only place that would hire me, I drove my kids hard, regrettably hard at times, and made sure they did the material so well that you would feel compelled to pay them. The kids responded well.
You had good kids. Brats elsewhere are starting to get entitled as hell; adults too. Even in other parts of Asia. The rot is spreading.
95% of kids are good. it’s the adults that make them bad or allow them to be bad. I loved my kids. Through time and effort on both our parts I saw them as human beings and not children in the negative context. They earned my respect and they carried out tasks when I asked them to and learned to make proper adjustments when they shit the bed.
I had difficulty with kids who were used to other teachers and floating along in class. Kids who never had a teacher before me didn’t have any preconceived notions of how class should go, they shut up and adapted quicker. Others take a few more months.
Seeing other teachers is always damning. pretty much everyone out there is a tourist teacher as in they spout information and let everyone move along. I saw a couple middle school high school and university teachers and they were as bad as I remember and actually worse because I now know what I’m doing in class. Adults are particularly thin skinned and make hella excuses. Make no mistake about it, if I taught kids I’d give them a better work ethic than most adults because I’ve done it before and I only noticed it in retrospect. My students get the material because I ram it in their consciousness. It’s unpleasant and painful at first, as is everything, but once they catch on they all get it. I shit you not 6 year old kids get it. They grow more mature, they analyze shit better, they dont on others for answers, they don’t say sorry and they aren’t emotionally manipulated because I don’t do that shit and give them some exercises on the side to deal with others.
I could talk all day about kids, I ought to start my own consultation or write a book or do a video series. What I do is the cure to ADD , depression, bullying and bad parenting. The only problem is its aggressive and that scares most Union teachers or people who “care” about kids. Fuck that, I make them strong and competent.
She actually received a job offer. $60,000 per year. NEXT!
This is as silly as a woman expecting a hot stud with a six pack and 6 figure salary because of her golden pussy. LOL!
This is the future thanks to the weak spawn that are “growing” and the new ones being born. At 30 I look around at those under 40 and have pretty much lost faith in humanity’s continuance. The future belongs to the machines. Seems the singularity is approaching. Machines don’t need to become smarter than humans. People are getting f—ing “stupider” (dumber). A culling will happen.
I think she’s just entitled as fuck. She seems like the kind of girl that would join the military for all of the benefits, but then when they tell her she’s about to be deployed, she goes and gets herself knocked up.
WNB.
“Alaburda herself, it must be said, was not much of a sympathetic figure, at least to this writer. During the litigation, it was revealed that she actually turned down a $60,000 per year offer from a Southern California law firm because they would not pay her bar dues (only a few hundred per year) and required a month of travel.”
This. Just another entitled feminist. Intern doctors in Malaysia get only 9K per annum and are legally forbidden from supplementing their income except through non medical means. We still survive though. Don’t know what the judge was thinking but the case should have been thrown out early.
In this case, I have no sympathy for her. Although I do think they education industry is a pyramid scheme overall.
Part of the problem is that we don’t follow the English Rule of fees – loser pays. That would go a long way to curbing some of this shit.
Some jurisdictions do. Where I am at, loser pays a percentage of the fees. Also, if an settlement offer is made and you still go to trial and get less than the settlement offer, you pay. It works really well at cutting down needless lawsuits.
Oh yeah, an offer of judgment (maybe called something else in your jurisdiction, but I have used it in the federal practice) is very useful. But I think this rule should be expanded – why just a percentage? Why not make them pay the whole thing if they lose?
I realize that cases are sometimes close, but it seems to me that the possibility that you would not only lose, but then have to pay the other side’s entire fees may not only encourage early settlement, but may also cut down on a lot of the frivolous discovery and motions practice bullshit I see.
How is the situation in Malaysia when it comes to taxes on what you purchase? I pay 75-80% of my monthly income in tax. I call non-income taxes indirect income tax, since they tax a lot of things that every human being needs every month, such as food, energy, gasoline and whatnot. My suspicion is that life is much less expensive outside the west, even if wages are much lower.
Income tax isn’t so high – but there is the Goods and Services Tax of 6 % and prices here most of the time don’t show elasticity – a lot of people I know here hold multiple jobs just to keep the mortgage in order.
Our goods and services tax is 25% =P.
Tough man…. I feel for you. Sun Tzu’s words on government arrogance being directly proportionate to tax and army sizes are playing in my mind now as I type this…
Western governments hates western people. Also, that tax is just one thing, then they add all kinds of taxes on production and things that then drive prices up. My own country Sweden used to be concentrated on neutrality and had a conscript defense, they have now changed that to intervening everywhere and having a large standing army etc.
no, I don’t think students should sue schools. you’re promised an education, not a job. so it’s not false or misleading advertising. you having an education is just one of many factors that goes into whether an employer would hire you.
You’re right. Education can improve your odds of getting a good job. That’s all.
Suing the University is just playing the victim card and not taking any accountability for making a poor life decision. The University may say this or that, but what she should’ve done was spoke to the alumni to get the real scoop on the degree from the University. Not the alumni sponsored by the University, but alumni not having ties with the school.
yea man, I don’t know who told her to go thru with that bs lawsuit. one thing I’ve noticed about ppl who really land high paying jobs after college are people who usually interned with a company or companies while they were still in school. or they join fraternities that connect them with other members of said fraternities in high ranking positions. some ppl forget that you have to use college or college will use you.
Thing is, you don’t need some bullshit degree from Harvard or Yale. Just get a degree from a decent place at a decent price (no loans, just get a job), and make connections along the way. The world isn’t fully about hard work. It’s about connections. (And luck of thr draw). But sadly children today have no clue.
Sad but true. Meritocracy is just a pipe dream nowadays.
Quintius, excellent job illustrating both sides of the equation here. This woman is not deserving of much sympathy. But our educational system is creating a financial time bomb the way it is currently structured. We all are going to be paying the cost if incentives are not properly aligned.
The law school market is useful as a case study of the problems of the entire system is facing. I recall seeing that law schools (GW) are actively using the income-based repayment strategies in their marketing materials – encouraging students to use it as a strategy! This is insane. Income based repayment means if you can’t make the actual payment, you pay 10% of your salary for a certain period (I think it’s 25 years?) and then the balance is “forgiven”. I HATE the word ‘forgiven’ because just means the entire tab, which has been accruing interest this whole time, is now paid by the US Taxpayer. Yes, you will forced to pay Little Lindy’s $200K student debt she racked up for a Gender Studies PhD between tuition, living expenses, and accrued interest after only making 10% payments on her $30K salary for 20 years.
The current system is incentivizing this. It is creating a time bomb in 25 years time when these loans start being forgiven. Your comparison to the 2008 banking crisis is almost perfect in terms of the bad incentives, deceptive marketing, and federal guaranteed money inflating a trillion-dollar bubble. And don’t forget the massive campaign contributions that that universities and for-profit education companies make. I hope that Trump eventually comes up with a true reform plan as the other candidates on both sides will probably make the problem worse, not better, due to the massive influence of the educational lobby.
She got an offer for $60000! And she didn’t have to get pooped on by Arab sheikhs. Mind you, it was in SoCal, which I believe it’s expensive. Yet, she could have gotten herself a roomie to help out. This one actually reminds me of the pathetic Yelp employee who got fired for trying to shame her boss because she was apparently starving, subsisting on rice, and behind on her San Francisco place, even though her Instagram pics of delicious food says otherwise.
Update. Turns out, ANOTHER Yelp employee has been fired and has penned her own letter to the CEO himself. Apparently she claims she’s a single mother who was not allowed to take care of her son or her boyfriend who was in the ICU.
http://nymag.com/following/2016/03/yelp-employee-jaymee-senigaglia-open-letter.html
There’s always someone in the ICU dying. Just remember, they can only die once.
Mr James Bond would disagree with you sir. Apparently, you only live twice.
That’s ma’am.
I’d be surprised if there wasn’t someone in any ICU dying.
Law school grad suing their former law school? Wasn’t this the basis of one paradoxical question?
BTW, what ever happened to Roosh’s lawsuit?
There will be an update at some point.
In some cases, students should be able to sue because college has essentially become a business. You have to pay thousands of dollars to attend to hope to get a good paying job and if you don’t, you’re still stuck with the debt and the college has made off like a bandit. It’s no reason education should be as expensive as it is. Furthermore, many jobs that in the past could be learned on the job now require you to have a college degree, even if you know how to do the job.
I’m no conspiracy theorist, but I do think there’s more to that story than it seems.
Unfortunately, the woman in this article is a bad example to create a precedent case. I just hope it doesn’t mean that real change in higher education doesn’t suffer because of it.
“Alaburda did not have the go-getter attitude she should have had”
This applies to just about every woman I know. Women are not “wired” for business, they are wired for comfort and easy-living. Their mentality is frequently “work enough to pay bills” or buy a new purse/ pair of shoes or whatever other consumerist bullshit they fall for.
Some basic google research would have given her more in-depth information about real employment prospects.
Barring admittance to a top 10 law school, most people should think long and hard about enrolling in the first place.
I bet as a law school graduate she thought she would go after rapists and racists right out of the gate. That, and maybe have an affair or two a la Scandal or Goodwife. That easy. As an old Mexican song would say, this chick just hatched out of the egg, and already she wanted to go fight the rooster.
Pat Condell nails it with the bullshit being offered at universities these days.
No. Choices are made by students to major in Lesbian Dance Theory and after graduation making lattes as a career. However if the Colleges are guaranteeing a job………false advertising.
It would be better, however, to get the Government out of the Student Loan business. Tuition would drop overnight.
Nope they shouldn’t be allowed to sue, most disgruntled college graduates are upset because they had their heads buried in the sand worrying about artificial social issues or indulging in hedonism rather than studying for a career that has a chance in today’s economy and saving up for some kind of independent life.
megaman energy tank avatar! fuck yeah!
The employers will certainly be beating on her door now.
So will graduate schools! Heh
If she hadn’t turned down that job, she might have won. Then again, the whole trial could have been a resume builder for her.
We will probably see much more of this in the near future. More and more women are going to college and getting useless degrees. Sooner or later, the white knights will begin to award the “poor, misguided” ladies with cash and prizes.
Black knights like me will do it because we hate the college system as it is more than female privilege.
The same thing permeates education. Women with liberal arts degrees who feel that a plethora of six figure, full-time tenured teaching postion should be waiting for them upon graduation. When they find out they will have to be a frequnt flyer, working several part time gigs, the histrionics ensue.
Women Studies major is the most useless
Future lawyercunt goes to third-tier, freeway adjacent diplomamill and the world does not immediately lick her boots. Shocking.
Just wait until she realizes her JD doesn’t make her “hot” and that her post-wall, debt-laden careerist ambitions are more likely to have her knee deep in cat litter than playing part-time lawyer wifey of some baller betabucks in La Jolla. And she looks like she’s gonna puff up any minute now. Definitely a fat chick trying to get out. tick tock tick tock.
Maybe Sheryl lean-in-alpha-fux-beta-bux Sandberg will offer her a job. Seems like a good fit.
Plus, from wicki: According to the law professor blog The Faculty Lounge, 28.8% of the Class of 2012 was employed in full-time, long-term positions requiring bar admission, ranking 192nd out of 197 law schools.
Too much group think on colleges these days. Bad for your brain. Don’t waste your money. Just get a university library card for a hundred bucks. It looks just like a student ID with your picture. Then you’re in. Weight rooms, showers, library couches are a good place to sleep sitting up with your sunglasses on. Student union is good place for game.
PS: I see Alaburda as very litiguous. She wants everything her way and can’t wait to try her knuckles suing someone. She’d sue her own mother, not out of spite or vanity, but because that’s what that decrepid scorpion does. She’s a bug and nothing more, an insectoid, legged sack of pus with organs and a cellulitic exoskeleton, and her legal prowess is her stinger. That’s all she is.
Especially if you’re still able to pull off looking like a traditional college student
Looking like a student these days is easy. You can find all the clothes you need lying around. Clothes are ready to pick growing on trees. These students look like they just returned from the goodwill bin.
http://i.f1g.fr/media/ext/1900×1900/madame.lefigaro.fr/sites/default/files/img/2014/11/deep-springs-college.jpg
^ Exactly. t-shirt, hoodie, jeans, runners, how hard is it to put that ensemble together.
I empathize with you young guys, Things were so much easier when I graduated from college in 1981. I was an unmotivated student who was only interested in girls and beer. I studied as little as possible and graduated with an unimpressive 2.4 GPA. Still, I had three job offers before graduation. I was a Hospitality Management major which was an easier field to get into but today, I’m not sure I could get a job being such a slacker. Back then, all you needed was a degree.
NAFTA and the other free trade bills started the decline. Many of the good jobs are gone. Ross Perot sounded the alarm but not enough people listened. When I was young it was considered immoral to fire Americans and send their jobs overseas. Globalism will be the death of America yet.
Ross Perot, in his business sense at least, was a 1992 version of Donald Trump.
I just started uni (a non-garbage career path though) and whenever I try to get numbers while waiting for class I usually ask the bitch what course she’s taking.
It’s almost always something such as “diversity in the workplace” or “conflict resolution”.
The future does not bode well.
A lot of people are bashing the girl for being irresponsible, but the fact is that many law schools DO lie to applicants. They SHOULD be sued.
I’ll bash her for complaining she couldn’t get a legal job when in fact she turned down a $60K/yr job with a law firm.
Its actually too bad that all women dont do this. A big problem with feminism is the proponents of that idea are shameless liars. They tell women a fantasy that the woman can do all the same things as men, and at the same time do the things women need done, and be happy, all with ease.
Nobody holds anyone accountable to speaking the truth.
What if feminist studies departments were held accountable for the BS they sell women? What if a 40 yo woman who could no longer have children could hold the gamma faggot responsinle for manipulating her into taking a worthless desk job onstead of marrying young and having children?
OK that is not practical, but one can start holding the larger institutions accountable for selling a Disneyesque fantasy to women that life is some theme park
Whatever her reasons, she did the right thing.
Next up, Gender studies major sues government for not being appointed to be the democratic party’s next presidential nominee.
Here’s the link …. hahaha not yet, but it will probably take less than two years until we’ll have a case like that.
On a (un)happier note, if “the Bitch” wins in November, there might be plenty of jobs opening up on university kangaroo courts for lazy, feminist law school grads.
this bitch just wanted the name value of the school, and of being a lawyer so she could up her SMV. i mean, they all do, but yeah… this is the real reason shes suing
A friend of mine did a crazy thing by setting up his own legal practice even though he never made it as a partner in any major law firm. He spent hours, days, weeks and months hustling and chasing any kind of cases available forgoing sleep and food at times. Fast forward 3-4 years later, he has a small but thriving legal practice. All because he was willing to hustle and work for it.
That’s not the only person I know. A guy in his mid 40s I know decided to go to law school and he graduated and passed the bar close to his 50th birthday. Even though he had to work in a small law firm under a much younger boss, he loves it and is willing to make the sacrifices for it.
So yeah, while its true that there are too many law graduates and not enough law positions around, I believe that if you are willing to hustle and bust your balls for it, you can make it.
Did he live in the back of an Asian nail salon?
Unrelated :
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It would be cheaper for Americans students to travel, work and study abroad if they want affordable higher education. I know nothing is free and nothing should be in this world but to pay $100,000 for 3 years of education is like having to pay $230 for 6 eggs and a bottle of milk. This is like extortion and you will be slaves to your debtors for the rest of your life. In my country we pay no more than $1200 for a year (even for masters). This is not socialist but pragmatic because when we start working we have no debt and can contribute directly to the economy.
The fact of the matter is that even for public universities, education has simply become another business and is made worse because of the free to low cost government money injected into this system.
Universities also take money off the top of any local, state, and federal grants for research for ‘administration’ costs.
Even some STEM fields don’t pay that well starting out and don’t really improve that much down the line.
Higher Education Is Morally and Financially Bankrupt
March 31, 2016
A system that piles debt on students in exchange for a marginal or even zero-return on their investment is morally and financially bankrupt.
http://www.oftwominds.com/blogmar16/bankrupt-higher-education3-16.html
Maybe Ms. Alaburda should have done a Gender Studies degree.. then she’d really have something to bitch about. She clearly has that self-indulgent, the-world-owes-me-a-living visage down, if her file photo is anything to go by.
She has no Employment Game. This is especially acute among younger people. The problem is passivity and expecting someone to offer you a job or respond to your application through their phony careers portal. You have to identify influential men in your industry and sell yourself towards a job.
My own son did this last year when he graduated with a technical associate’s degree, which granted makes him more employable than most law school grads. But there was not work to be had in our town so he relocated and commenced an active search by contacting men in his field directly to inquire about work opportunities. Within a couple months he found relevant work while his classmates were getting nothing.
Also last year I wrote the book on how to do it. As a promotion you can get a free unabridged copy today on Amazon. I just made the promotion link so if it’s not active yet it should be within 24 hours : http://amzn.to/1SxSF2P
Typical sissified / entitled behavior of the current generation. Prior generations would take responsibility, get creative, and find a way.
Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!
How could she make any case if what she is claiming is shown to not be true? Not only should this be dismissed, she should have to pay her school’s legal costs in defending this frivolous case.
I have to say that for non-med students, that’s “impressive.”
“I myself am currently litigating the bankruptcy dischargeability of a married couple (high school teachers) with over $260,000 in student loans, who have no hope of ever paying it off.’
I raised my kids to be realists. My eldest daughter wanted to be a teacher but researched their pay. She lived at home with me for her 4 yr degree +2 yr credentialing program at a state school (as child of a disabled vet her tuition was waived) even though she had the grades to be accepted to prestige schools, and worked part time. When she got her teaching credential, she had no school debt, money in the bank, and just one year left on the loan for a car she bought new. Got a job teaching high school this year, her own apartment, and listens to other teachers complaining about the debt they’re under. She was just informed she’s being picked up for next year which will give her tenure.
man, it’s a shit job though.
Some folks really like it though. She’s one of them, like any job it has its ups and downs– but overall she says she can’t think of anything she’d rather do. Nice thing is, she can take a couple of years off with kids and then go back, which is what my sister did.
I think QC needs to consider when she applied to law school – before the housing crunch and other factors really caused the worm to turn and the golden era of law school scamming was still in full swing. They lied about the stats, jacked tuition through the roof knowing full well the students would take enormous loans, and paid themselves off the backs of the students who did not make it – which for Thomas Jefferson has always been a large percentage of each graduating class.
If this were a tech school for welders or plumbers, they would be sued out of existence. Yet because the courts are by their nature staffed by (often older) judges who obviously had successful careers, they have difficulty imagining anything could be so wrong with their precious and noble institution.
Even now, when QC says: “The market for legal jobs has been depressed for years, but is starting to climb back slowly.” That’s true – sort of. It may be climbing a bit in terms of numbers, but what kinds of law jobs? Starting BigLaw salaries have been frozen for almost ten years now – and those are the highest paying law jobs for which no TJ graduate will ever qualify. It will never be back to “normal” as the normal of even ten years ago is gone for good.
Law is not the same profession as demand changed permanently both by client awareness (big corporations are not willing to pay an associate $400 per hour to do Google searches anymore), as well as computer software catching up – you just don’t need rooms full of newly minted attorneys to do discovery work nowadays. The machines are here and they have eliminated a lot of future law jobs, but the schools still refuse to recognize that and hope to keep the show rolling along while they come up with ridiculous terms like “JD Advantage” to describe jobs for their graduates which in reality do not require JD degrees. MBE scores continue to decline, the Deans are starting to blame the bar exam, and the admissions committees are scraping the bottom of the applicant pool barrel to provide enough debt donkeys to pay salaries for the staff. So no, they have not learned and there will be future cases – especially against dumps like TJ. Hopefully the next plaintiff is better situated than she was.
When I first read the article headline I thought this was going to be a frivolous case, but I definitely think it had merit except for the crucial bit of evidence in relation to the fact that she knocked back a $60k job in a law firm. The statistics used by the education institution are definitely deceptive given that the place specializes in just one field – law. Potential students don’t want to pay to graduate to become bar tenders, salesmen, taxi drivers, or admin clerks, so including anything other than bar exam jobs is BS, and absolutely the institution is using deceptive marketing because the real 2015 figure would be embarrassing.
Some people think that those struggling with low paying jobs just didn’t try hard enough to make the effort and if they go to university and study hard (and take out big loans) that they would be on easy street, but its not quite as simple as that as the economy has changed. If all of McDonald’s workers went off to university to study and become lawyers, accountants, engineers, there are just not the extra million good paying jobs there for them upon graduation. One of my friends dad’s was an accountant and I remember him saying how he would go to job interviews back then 70s/80s for great paying jobs and there would only be him and a couple of other applicants. Those days are gone. With graduation figures I guess its a case of caveat emptor, and its not this judges role to set the laws on educational marketing, but the govt should tighten the guidelines on them. As you say, hopefully the next plaintiff has a more solid case.
The moment I saw the picture of the plaintiff, I knew this case had no merit. Sorry, but I can spot slut face from a mile away. An overweight simp with a sense of entitlement that was obviously missed during fat shaming week bears very little weight with me.
What about ALL THE GROWN UP PEOPLE WHO TOOK RESPONSIBILITY AND PAID OFF THEIR LOANS WITHOUT WHINING ABOUT IT?
This is known as Self-Responsibility. A.k.a. being a adult.
It’s about getting a piece of paper that says you’re ‘learned’. The learning part is up to you. The actual learning you do on your own.
I’m referring to the millions of people who came before this one, who went to school, earned degrees, paid for it— and made the rest of their lives work/or not, despite the conditions at the time.
Jury made the right decision: ” … it was revealed that she actually turned down a $60,000 per year offer from a Southern California law firm because they would not pay her bar dues (only a few hundred per year) and required a month of travel.”
She was not employed in the legal profession by her own choice. You start at the bottom, there are certain things you are expected to do – like travel. Given the current job market, they made her a fair offer. Someone was willing to give her a start/chance– she chose to turn it down.
My alma mater posts job stats as % employed AND % employed in field relating to their degree.
You wouldn’t be surprised that STEM fields have nearly matching numbers in those two categories. You also wouldn’t be surprised that popular feminist majors (women’s studies, et al) have the least matching numbers.
Or, as the women’s studies major asks the STEM graduate: “Whip or no whip” at Starschmucks.
Early ambulance chaser syndrome…
Classic – I made choices but I’m not responsible for them!!
The East Indian in the picture took her job 😉
Ive known a few strippers with degrees in communication. .and yes, that is a degree in direct line to their education.
I agree with the jury in this case because she was offered 60k and turned it down. You know, you do need EXPERIENCE to get paid.
Really good article.
This is the real thing, right here:
“During the litigation, it was revealed that she actually turned down
a $60,000 per year offer from a Southern California law firm because
they would not pay her bar dues (only a few hundred per year) and
required a month of travel.”
She would have had a job as an attorney, if she hadn’t turned it down. That’s pretty much all you need for her claim to be invalid. Had the school stated that 80% of their graduates get jobs where they’re allowed to ride the Company Unicorn back and forth to work and eat bon-bons all day for six figures, then she’d be able to complain. But that was a job offer that reflects normal employment for a recent law-school grad, and she didn’t want it. So it’s on her.
You are currently representing married teachers who owe $260,000? Holy cow. I am happy that even while lolly gagging, dropping classes and spending my tuition loan refunds I escaped with $40,000 in debt for a Master’s in Accountancy. I figured with the terrible pathway I took, having my starting salary be 150% of my loans isn’t bad. Granted I worked Full-time as well selling Retro Jordans to imbeciles, oh well made me the awaken man I am today.
Colleges should be able to give you a dollar value for any degree they offer…at American University, one of the country’s top liberal dirtbag colleges, I asked, “what’s your degree worth?” at the required interview of the financial aid office…you could hear the crickets…universities are the worst rip-off in America, now. When I went to school, we could confront the socialist-marxist-maoist-femminists and tell them to “fuck-off.” Now, they throw you in jail. Seriously, we should let the world collapse, and just take the opportunity to knock them all off.
Sallie Mae distorts the college degree market value by lending to students receiving worthless degrees in the same manner that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac distort the housing market by lending to individuals who can’t afford a house.
The guarantee in income regardless of outcome allows the colleges to annually raise their tuition fully knowing that Sallie Mae will make the payment. In many ways, college education is a massive bubble ready to burst. STEM or bust.
Very good read. I would not have sued the school I went to. Its like biting the hand that feeds you to some extent.
Why would anyone draw attention to themselves and admit that couldn’t find a job and act like it’s the universities fault? If anything, she will have a harder time finding work because of the press surrounding this lawsuit.
“Due Diligence”. . . Exactly! And if you haven’t passed the bar, you’re not a lawyer. What was this snowflake expecting? Today’s college kids expect things to be handed to them and everything to meet their unrealistic expectations. And note: Of course colleges promise that so-and-so degree will get you a job making X dollars a year. But keep in mind that industries and corporations look at markets and do all they can to deflate wages and eliminate positions. So you go into college for a marketable degree, and when you’re finished in 4 or 6 years, those jobs are already gone. It’s up to you to go to college for something YOU can make something out of, and not rely on the economy to just up and provide something for you. Entitlement attitude all the way with these new kids.
The financial elite, er, government, has no interest in solving the problem anytime soon, believe me.
I myself am currently litigating the bankruptcy dischargeability of a married couple (high school teachers) with over $260,000 in student loans, who have no hope of ever paying it off.
Anybody who goes to college and enrolls in a major program without doing throrough research on the employment prospects that program will afford them is an idiot who probably didn’t have any business going to college to begin with.
Let’s not kid ourselves. They tell you when you take out those loans what you’re going to be paying in payments every month under the various repayment intervals.
If you’re too stupid to look up the kind of salary you’re going to get in you chosen field of employment – after having ascertained what the likelihood is that you’ll actually work in that field – and then figure out what kind of burden repayment is going to be, then you’re not just an idiot, you’re a recklessly irresponsible idiot.
You probably didn’t have any business going to college, and the idea that you now work educating young people in high schools is not real encouraging.
Almost no child thinks about the future, and school careers advice is a joke.
If your parents don’t steer you into a profitable course of education, you’re up shit creek. Most people chose their degree course when they are age 17 this is by no means an adult making a decision so I can’t blame them, I can blame their parents, and their school.
Is there any other situation where a 17 year old child is allowed to take on $100,000+ loan?
It sounds like the law school did very well; it taught her how to act like a typical lawyer.
And this is the problem of people believing so hard onto so called facts and statistics, stop putting your life to the”faith” of established facts and make your goddamn own through experiences and your experimentation