10 Signs Of Men Who Have The Loser Mentality

Over the years I’ve known a few friends (and, sadly, family) who at some point I began to see in a different light—these were men very close to me who eventually revealed themselves to always make bad decisions, avoid personal change and self improvement, fail with women (or get with terribly low-tier ones), and periodically need my help to get themselves out of a hole they had dug for themselves.

At the very least it was slightly annoying, but after bailing them out numerous times I become angry and frustrated with the lack of personal responsibility. I came to understand that these are broken men.

What I now call the “loser mentality” is not reserved for extreme cases like drug addicts, felons, and so forth.  Sometimes otherwise nice, decent people are actually living a “loser” life; not everyone is necessarily “bad” but sadly are still a net negative and will drain us of money, motivation, time, and more if we don’t make the hard choice to walk away from them.

There appear to be common traits among these types which serve as telling indicators of those who your good intentions are wasted on.  Allow me to present several here.

1. Their Lives Often Start With Paths That Are Difficult To Recover From

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Sometimes your choices are costly in the long run. Even more costly is never trying to move ahead and escape.

One of my closest friends married young and had several children with a woman despite being in a low income bracket at the time, and still works up to two low-paying part time jobs, spending his best years struggling instead of advancing & growing.  My brother, to my dismay, had several children by several different women.  Another friend of mine became somewhat of an alcoholic and dropped out of the community college we were attending many years ago, despite my encouragement in staying.

In all cases, the theme was the same: these mistakes, along with a failure to pursue the opportunity for a better life (and the possibility of recovering one day) cemented their fate: a life of having to rely on others, never being able to “dig out of the hole” financially, and never enjoying the things in life that the rest of us do.

Reflecting on this common theme I see the same in others: their lives often started down a very hard road, and yet they never seem willing to make the short-term sacrifices (despite opportunities to do so) that would ensure long-term improvement and allow them to break out before it’s too late

2. They Make the Same Mistakes Over and Over

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It’s often pointless to discuss the obvious with those who live as “losers.” I understand, very humbly, that we all make poor decisions from time to time; what is critical is whether we learn and grow from this or foolishly disregard the consequences again and repeat our stupid decisions.

My own version of Einstein’s statement regarding insanity is this: “Doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results is the definition of stupidity.” Those with the loser mentality will quit jobs for trivial reasons, give up free education, wreck their vehicles (and lose them), get arrested over and over, and impregnate women again and again.  And yet seem very passive about the consequences and how far away from happiness and success they place themselves.  It’s amazing, and infuriating, to see.

3. They Accept Money And Pity But Never Solid Advice

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Some people seem to always be this away. As if it were simply bad luck.

This is one of single greatest truths regarding these types that I’ve ever learned. Every time these people came back to me, there was always some urgent emergency and they needed money badly.  I helped how I could, and was supportive of course with kind words and enthusiasm, but I came to see something happen every time.

I spent much time sharing personal advice about how to improve their lives and yet, not once was any of my advice taken. NEVER.

Funny, all the Facebook comments and prayers and positive comments and sympathy seem to be welcome and responded to, but never anything truly meaningful is done about it. Honest, intelligent, and sincere advice is a waste of time on those with the loser mentality.  Save it for men who deserve it.  I’ll never make that mistake again.

4.  They Don’t Really Want To Change

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This is what it pretty much amounts to. So much for your great & insightful advice

From #3 above, there’s a general underlying problem: men who live a sad, low-tier life often do so by choice.  We have more opportunity in the West than many areas of the world.  And yet, so many seem content to live miserable lives, severely restricted from what is right in front of them and all the possibilities that exist.  How is this possible?

There is an underlying lack of a desire to change.  Seeing some of my best friends constantly move backwards in life began to show how they avoided seizing the opportunities that others, and fate, provided them. Given an opportunity to move to a better location?  Set up with a job interview at a better place?  Encouraged to apply for a grant and attend a trade school?  Dress better, get in shape? NO.

When you’re a loser, and think as a loser does, you always have some excuse or “reason” to avoid anything that requires stepping outside your comfort zone or moving forward.  They don’t want to change, and that’s that!

5. They Place The Blame Elsewhere

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Life does hold random fate. However, a wise man betters his odds, not blame them for failure.

It never fails, and unfortunately I’ve had to witness a family member doing this: rarely, if at all, admitting, “Yeah, I messed up.”

Conveniently blaming bad luck, bad timing, or just being completely oblivious to the consequences of poor choices is a trait you’ll find repeatedly with these types.  I’ve even heard “The man is trying to keep me down.”

6. They Often Need To Be Bailed Out Of Bad Situations

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One of the most significant characteristics of a loser is their need to be bailed out of bad situations, often in a very sudden manner.

Their lack of foresight and low income means they rarely have any emergency funds to withdraw from a bank, and then you’re left with the chore of sending them money via Moneygram or something similar for whatever situation they’ve found themselves in.  More often than not their problem is due to poor planning or not living within their means.  You’re extremely fortunate if they repay you, which is another topic unto itself.  Other times they’re in jail again and need to be bailed out when no one else is willing to do so any longer.

I recall helping one of my friends years ago in his “emergency situation” when he claimed to desperately need cash for gas to travel to work and buy food.  I urgently rushed to send the money via Western Union.  Do you think I was ever repaid?  Could I ever ask the same from him?  I think you already know the answers.

7.  They’re Slightly Dysfunctional – Behavior That At Times Is Awkward or Irrational

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Odd behavior = clues to problems.

A pivotal moment when my eyes became open was when I once suggested to one friend that perhaps rather than working 2 poorly paying part-time jobs he could start with a decent full-time job, enjoy more free time, and then later move to an even better/higher-paying full time job.  His quality of life at the time was very low, working above-average hours per week at a trivial pay rate.

Similarly, with a family member and also a friend with a below-average life I suggested going to school part-time for a skilled trade or an Associate’s Degree, which would open doors fairly easily to greatly improve their income and give them the opportunity to live in better places where their skills would be in demand.

In all cases I was met by awkward, bizzare silence and even a strange behavior in which they seemed to act as if I hadn’t said a word.  And at times their behavior in social situations showed they are not well-equipped to interact with others as expected of men their (adult) age.  It’s a very odd thing to see.

When you innately have problems and live in a world where you retreat into your shell like a turtle, you are living a dysfunctional and counter-productive life.

Witnessing one talk about women (some of which were productive, attractive, respectful) as if they even had a remote shot a such a woman showed me they had a skewed outlook and were unrealistic in their perception at times.  They have almost nothing, and yet at times have the desire to have women who are attracted to men who are more successful.

8.  Their Choices Are Often Enabled by Others

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After witnessing many situations both different and similar to those I’m recalling here, another pattern emerges:  Losers continually rely on the help of others, always anticipating that someone will bail them out, thereby enabling their behavior time and time again.

Sadly, it’s both distressing to be called upon to help someone you once respected, knowing full well this is a result of their poor decisions yet again, and the stress and annoyance of it is a drag on you internally.

The difference is that we must understand that men with the loser mentality subconciously expect someone to bail them out every time.  It becomes learned behavior…they’re never forced to struggle and resort to find a solution themselves.

Despite your best intentions, continually bailing out losers won’t help them in the long run – they’ll just get by until it happens again the next time.  It’s time to say “no.”

9.  They Live Day-to-Day, And Don’t Think About the Long-Term

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When a relative of mine died almost 10 years ago, I received a small amount of money.  I reflected back on how my father had little to no money during his retirement age years and had little to get by on.  I decided to make the right decision and start a retirement account back then, which now is considerably larger.

I watched time and time again as my old friends and acquaintances would come into large tax refunds, a bit of interitance, or so forth.  Inevitably, the money would be gone very quickly, often into a car or petty things, rather than planning for the future and being concerned about how they’d get by later.

It never fails:  those who live paycheck-to-paycheck never truly live below their means (in which case they could begin to get ahead) or give serious thought to how they’ll survive emergencies.

10.  If You Ever Need Their Help, Prepare to Be Disappointed

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I’ll never forget how it felt to need help in an emergency from someone I loaned money to multiple times in the past, along with many other forms of help, only to be denied.  It was an extremely angering feeling in the middle of a stressful situation.

On a trip a few years ago to a latin country, I later discovered that my debit card became lost or stolen between Miami and a rural area overseas (we traveled from the capital to her parent’s 2nd home).  It was an emergency situation as I had very limited cash and no means to access my bank account overseas (although I should have prepared better).  I was stressed, in a difficult situation, and it was a rare time I really needed someone’s help.

I called back to the USA to someone in my family and told them how I needed maybe $300 or $400, etc. to hold me over until I returned.  What did you think I heard?  “Ain’t got no money, man.”  And the same from his wife at the time “Naw, ain’t got no money.”  Not, “I don’t have the money, but I can get it here or from so-and-so”, or “Let me ask xxx if they could help me out”, or even “Don’t worry I’ll get an emergency loan to get you by.” After so many times I helped this was my reward:  nothing.

By the grace of God, my father who was living off of social security, was able to send me a bit of money until I got home.

Never expect help when you really need it from those who have the loser mentality.  These broke-ass losers are living day-to-day worrying about themselves and losers cannot be counted on.  Ever.

In Conclusion

Of all my regrets in life, one of my greatest was all the money I lost and the naive, foolish concern and effort I wasted on those who honestly have little to show for their lives.  It was particularly sad because these were often guys I once enjoyed the company of and was close to, and had good memories with.  As time went on I saw their lives turn into sad melodramas and I realized they are a drain on our resources and motivation.

Being burned the one time in my life that I really needed help from one was an especially unforgettable lesson.

I no longer foolishly give time, money, or advice to those I know who I recognize as being of the “loser mentality”: going nowhere in life, disregarding advice, and never trying to better themselves.

Take my advice:  Learn to separate losers from men who genuinely deserve your resources and concern.  Walk away from those who have the characteristics I shared here and would affect your life negatively.

343 thoughts on “10 Signs Of Men Who Have The Loser Mentality”

    1. I believe Judge Judy has a similar expression she uses sometimes, lol. Something about hitching your ride to star vs. to a loser.

  1. Great list. Seriously. I thought of 7 of these after reading the title, but before reading the article … and you smashed them home plus 3 more
    One of my oldest pals is a fucking loser. Hate to say this, but after 20 years I’ve ditched him permanently. Cheerio son. I hope you pull yourself together, but get the fuck out my sight
    He sponges off people, ignores tonnes of great advice, abuses charity, is a complete sell out beta fuck around pussy. Plus he’d sooner have one last beer than save someone he cares about from dying of hunger given the choice
    Sad, but many are beyond help

    1. You’re so right. The one guy I wrote about (dropped out of communit college, and became a bit of an alcoholic) I had a strong sense I had to get away from.
      I say in back in those days that I was really giving 100% into my education and he was making excuses and being pathetic. I knew it would bring me down if I stayed.
      It was a tough decision because he was a good friend long ago but just like you said, you have to cut them out.

    2. Maybe it’s time you told him about the guy on your profile picture.
      He might have a thing or two to say about motivation.

  2. There’s a good 80% of things that happen in our lives that we genuinely can’t control.
    The other 20, in addition to our everyday attitude is completely up to us.

  3. A good list. Though I caution about the last. Intention counts. People who will say they are there for you when it is easy but as soon as an effort is necessary they are useless as a 5th leg on a chair? Yeah, you are right. But there are some people who will honestly tell you “do not look to me for help and I will not look to you for help” and that can be the basis of an honest and lasting friendship

    1. I can see what you’re saying. If it were an understanding, sure I can see that.
      In the case when I really needed help, and had been counted on so many times in the past to provide it to others, it was implied I was at least owed that, yet I got nothing.
      And not even a halfway-decent excuse why. Just an absence of willingness to help me out.

      1. People can be dicks. This is why I take the Shakespearean “neither a lender nor borrower be” to the extreme. I refuse to either help others or accept help come what may.

        1. I do believe in helping others, but I’ve learned we cannot blindly help others, because (in my personal experience) that’s very often simply enabling them.
          I’ve come to see that it’s important to try to distinguish between the two types. The honest people who deserve help seem to be rare.
          I’ve hear others say how they’ve regretted helping others when they later discovered they were conned or their help was foolishly wasted. It’s a deterrent to those who can actually help others, and leaves a bad taste in the mouth forever.
          I accept that at some point I’ll need some help (like in #10) but I’ll definitely try my hardest to ever be in a position to put my fate inadvertently in the hands of a loser.

        2. I often help others… however I use my aid as a strict radar of where they fall into my companion category. Those who pay me back in money or some other form of assistance are upgraded to my inner circle. It really does pay to know who has your back and who does not. Knowing that I can, if needed (I rarely need it and do my best too fend for myself) ask for help and get it, is gold to me. Having real friends and family and friends who are family is worth more then many material treasures out there.
          Now to be fair. I am only 30 and am perhaps in for a very rude awakening concerning this philosophy. I have taken a loss with quite a few people but have also had my ass saved a few times with others. I am much more cautious in how I invest my resources into others as I age. Yet once again, knowing who I can rely on and who I cannot when shit hits the fan is worth the potential loss… At least for me it is!

        3. I don’t think it is youth or foolishness. I think you are a decent guy. In the end I think it Is just important to not expect more than you give. I will never accept help nor give it. I think that is fair. The problem is people who take and promise and then fail

        4. Awwwwwww… you think I’m a decent guy? Geesh Lolknee, you have me blushing over here!!! But seriously… I feel you and think that your position is fair. I have come close myself to a ‘every man for himself’ strategy. Especially when I get screwed. Yet I am a big believer of the round table outlook. I want a group of real players at my table where our game is each other’s best interests and that when required, we are willing to go to war as one. I’m a wolf pack type of guy. Even though I am mostly a hermit and believe that mastering oneself is the best contribution you can make for your pack. How does that Rudyard Kipling poem go from Jungle Book?
          ‘NOW this is the Law of the Jungle — as old and as true as the sky;
          And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the Wolf that shall break it must die.
          As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk the Law runneth forward and back —
          For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.’

      2. This reminds me if a common scenario.
        “My battery is dead. Can ya take 30 seconds and gimme a jump? I have cables?”
        “Nah…sorry. I’m in a hurry.”

    2. I’m inclined to disagree a bit. These days I care about results – intentions don’t always mean much to me now.
      I’m growing impatient as I get a bit older

      1. If I know that someone might not have the means themselves, because of how bad their personal choices are, it’s infuriating but I can deal with the reality.
        A pathetic lack of effort to try to pull together some resources somewhere, somehow, from someone, to help a good person in an emergency is fucking horrendous.
        I too having gotten older and seen more things have become far less tolerant of excuses and look at the bottom line and fundamental truths much more easily now.

  4. 0. Stay away, far, far, far away as possible from these losers. Loser behavior is TOXIC and will infect you like any contageous physical ailment if you hang out too long.

    1. Absolutely. The loser mentality is a non-acheiver one, and you’d be in the company of those who stagnate in life and would rather make excuses than enjoy quality life can offer.
      They will drain your energy, as Mike Cernovich phrases it.
      You can almost feel the terrible sensation of failure in the air when you’re around them.
      In my case I also didn’t want to end up doing time because of getting caught in the wrong time/wrong place because of bad habits some had.

      1. My problem with good intentions is that they don’t cost anything. Like apologies, unless they really lead to change of behaviours/actions they fuck right off

        1. Totally. All the good intentions and kind words mean nothing. Willingness to take action (or not) = reality.
          Look not at what people say, but what they do

      2. As a bail bondsman, I am around losers all the fucking time. And it is contagious. In fact I am gradually working my way out of that business into somethong different BECAUSE of these fucking people.
        There are times where I really have to fight myself from mentally acclimating to their frame of thinking. And as I get older and these people become more plentiful, it’s getting harder and harder to fight off the parasitic drain these people take on my “life force”.
        They are literal life drainers and it is killing me. I have to get out before it rubs off on me to the point of inertia.

        1. I know a few guys who work in state corrections (prisons) and it’s the same. You are watching the dregs of society day-in, day out for years and it really changes your perception how you look at people.

      3. In my case I also didn’t want to end up doing time because of getting caught in the wrong time/wrong place because of bad habits some had.

        That’s the thing that scares me most as a dad. I don’t want my kids hanging out with the the wrong crowd exactly for that reason.

        1. I’ve tried to impress upon my kids the ability to identify losers and the need to stay away from them, lest the loser will drag them down too.

  5. One of my best buddies is a loser, and it’s true, you can’t ask him for help. I once asked if he could help me move using his van. Knowing that’s he’s a broke loser, I offered to pay him for his help, plus gas, tolls, and lunch. NOPE. He’s an aspiring rock star – at 37 years old – and that’s his rock n’ roll van for amps and drums, not a moving van. This whole list sums him up well.

        1. Sounds like fat chicks who want a Calvin Klein underwear model boyfriend.
          Seems too ridiculous but these people exist.

    1. When a “friend” with a van who needs the money and ain’t doing anything else with his time won’t help you move, that is beyond loser, that is selfish and self centered and rather hostile, man. Very fuct up. He is not a friend by any definition. It’s one thing to be unambitious and disorganized and imprudent, but, you’re describing a true narcissist and maybe a sociopath. I’ve encountered people like this in my life and it would usually take me a while to figure out something wasn’t right, probably because I’m stupid.

    2. Such men need to be put in a sink of swim situation where they either stop being a loser by improving themselves and their situations or they die. No other way.

    3. I knew a guy like that, but he is two years older. Most people in his position would have got the memo 15 years ago that a career in music was no longer worth pursuing, but no, he had to keep insisting.
      Last I heard he was still at it, trying to book gigs in dive bars. Sad as fuck really.

  6. #11: the loser will always give the impression that he’s busy, because losers don’t like being called out as losers.
    My loser buddy has no job, no wife or gf, no kids… but he’ll tell you all about how, oh man, he’s been SO SUPER BUSY lately, he hasn’t had a moment to relax! He worked on his van, and cleaned up around the house, recorded some music and blah blah blah… everything except work at a full-time job. Anyway, that’s why he’s too tired to hep you.

    1. In this day and age of unlimited “economy boosting” unemployment effectively serving as the ole “guaranteed minimum income”, coupled with the dearth of jobs, I can almost understand some 37 year old dude succumbing to sloth.
      Though maybe there is some hope as someone who doesn’t want to be seen as a loser still has some pride left. It might also be a good sign that they’re not a sociopath as AFAIK those folks can’t fathom that the universe does not revolve around them (eg: Hillary, Toxic Ted Cruz).

  7. One of my favorite poems was written by William S Burroughs in his late 70’s. It is called Words of Advice For Young People. There is some very solid advice here.
    People often ask me if I have any words of advice for young people.
    Well here are a few simple admonitions for young and old.
    Never intefere in a boy-and-girl fight.
    Beware of whores who say they don’t want money.
    The hell they don’t.
    What they mean is they want more money. Much more.
    If you’re doing business with a religious son-of-a-bitch,
    Get it in writing.
    His word isn’t worth shit.
    Not with the good lord telling him how to fuck you on the deal.
    Avoid fuck-ups.
    We all know the type.
    Anything they have anything to do with,
    No matter how good it sounds,
    Turns into a disaster.
    Do not offer sympathy to the mentally ill.
    Tell them firmly:
    I am not paid to listen to this drivel.
    You are a terminal boob.
    Now some of you may encounter the Devil’s Bargain,
    If you get that far.
    Any old soul is worth saving,
    At least to a priest,
    But not every soul is worth buying.
    So you can take the offer as a compliment.
    He tries the easy ones first.
    You know like money,
    All the money there is.
    But who wants to be the richest guy in some cemetary?
    Money won’t buy.
    Not much left to spend it on, eh gramps?
    Getting too old to cut the mustard.
    Well time hits the hardest blows.
    Especially below the belt.
    How’s a young body grab you?
    Like three card monte, like pea under the shell,
    Now you see it, now you don’t.
    Haven’t you forgotten something, gramps?
    In order to feel something,
    You’ve got to be there.
    You have to be eighteen.
    You’re not eighteen.
    You are seventy-eight.
    Old fool sold his soul for a strap-on.
    Well they always try the easiest ones first.
    How about an honorable bargain?
    You always wanted to be a doctor,
    Well now’s your chance.
    Why don’t you become a great healer
    And benefit humanity?
    What’s wrong with that?
    Just about everything.
    Just about everything.
    There are no honorable bargains
    Involving exchange
    Of qualitative merchandise
    Like souls
    For quantitative merchandise
    Like time and money.
    So piss off Satan
    And don’t take me for dumber than I look.
    An old junk pusher told me –
    Watch whose money you pick up.

    1. All I know about this guy is he had a major smack habit and was a father figure for uncle Al…
      Wouldn’t that make him a “loser”?

      1. Those two things were true. He was also a homosexual and he shot his wife to death in mexico and claimed he was playing william tell and got off for a fine. None of that matters to me. The man is dead. The body of work is here and it is very good.

        1. Yep. The main things i remember about him is what ue said about religious people and god fucking you.
          And how he killed his wife.

        2. As I understand it his rich family stepped in and bribed his way out of the murder or manslaughter charge.
          I’d abandoned WSB along with most of the heroes of my youth. Interesting poem though, seemed relevant to me, I read it a few times.

        3. Looking at his background, it seems that he should’ve been doing his writing from the loony bin.
          How did he dodge military service in WW2 on claims of being a nutjob but then avoid being locked in the asylum?

        4. Ah, he was another crazy hippie with a trust fund?
          That would explain how he was able to get out of the US Military in WW2 by claiming he was crazy without suffering any repercussions for it.

        5. His grandfather invented the calculator….he had a significant trust fund and what was, at the time, an influential name. That said, I have an ability to seerste the man from the art and even if I didn’t I’ve always had a soft spot for old uncle bill

        6. Yes. His grandfather invented the adding machine. I wouldn’t call him a childhood hero but I recognize his talent

        7. Burroughs was so big around the 80’s. I said youth, but that’s stretching it (well, I was stretching it).
          There’s a The Fall song Dead Beat Descendant I always thought was about the Beats, pop culture, the hipness of negativity:
          “Here’s a dance that is pure hell
          Enter at your peril
          Take five dead beat steps
          Do a stroll
          Act like you just got out of jail
          You must be repellant
          Dance dead beat descendant”

        8. yes, there was a Beat Generation resurgence I seem to recall. However, even when that was going on I still thought Kerouac was a two -bit hack.

    2. Pretty solid advice, if a bit on the cynical side.
      I wish someone had given him some Advice for Middle-Aged Poets: make a rhyme (at least) every other line.
      I really don’t understand poetry that doesn’t rhyme, it makes about as much sense to me as the Haiku, a construct that doesn’t jibe with the English language, does.

      1. Leave the rhyming to doctor Seuss. Free verse, at his time, was just as important as rhyme was to Poe.

        1. I’d rather leave the rhyming to real poets than Seuss as he was far from the rhyme meister, as evidenced by his name.
          “Free Verse” poetry reminds me of the recent ROK article about modern classical music being dead as free verse poets, like the modern “composers”, are merely going against convention for the sake of doing so.
          I also can’t help but suspect that these types mock convention because adhering to it would be too difficult for them.

        2. right, but that article was totally ignorant bullshit (despite me actually liking the author). At the end of the day if there is something you like better than something you don’t hey that is fantastic. But trying to make the claim that the thing you like is in some ways better than the thing you don’t based on reasons having totally to do with your taste is one of the reasons that artists have always needed to be a protected class.

        3. If there were a greater or equal degree of difficulty/complexity to “Free Verse” vs other forms of poetry that I consider proper then I could respect its workmanship equally.
          For an example of that, while I think that the Haiku in English is a flawed concept as English isn’t a “syllabic” language, I put more stock in their workmanship than in “free verse” as haiku poets have to put in the effort to formulate a way to express their thoughts according to convention.
          “Rhyme or Reason”: poetry in its construction ought to have one or the other.
          Side note: After the (extremely ironic) Jackson Pollock fiasco, and the modern PC definition of the term, I can’t say I support artists being a “protected class” in any modern sense.
          Perhaps the patronage system of yore could work, that produced far more spectacular, skillful and satisfying works than are churned out today.

        4. There is much more that goes into it than you would imagine. Jackson Pollock fiasco has absolutely nothing to do with the absolute genius expressed in his work. There is, and always has been, much more crap churned out than anything else. Time will figure out what was worthwhile.
          I get that you enjoy a certain type of structure in your art and that is great. But don’t conflate that with thinking that the other stuff isn’t amazing. It just isn’t to your liking.

        5. A structure that I don’t like? I can begrudgingly respect that.
          No structure at all in a work (eg: Pollock, “Free Verse”)? It is impossible to respect structure in a work when it is absent.
          “Free Verse” isn’t poetry, it’s prose. I can judge/respect the ideas contained in that prose but I can’t claim that it is poetry any more than I can claim that Bruce Jenner is a woman.

          What is the real “genius” of Jackson Pollock? The man was funded and propped up by the US Government in a (supremely ironic) effort to combat the diametrically-opposed style of Soviet art.
          As such, I’ve equated accounts of his genius with claims of Clinton/0bama’s prowess in fixing the US economy: people parroting propaganda.

        6. I can’t explain genius to you. I can tell you that things you don’t understand aren’t always bad and Pollacs involvement with the CIA was significantly less than their involvement with him. You don’t have to believe me but that man did things that were legitamayley brilliant and actually important

        7. There’s a difference between “not understanding” and “understanding there’s nothing there to understand”.
          I’ve seen modern-day hippies get “moved” by some work and use it as inspiration to create Pollack-style paintings. From what I’ve seen, there’s not a dime’s worth of difference between the Pollacks made by these hippies or Jackson himself.
          I won’t dispute that Pollack did things that were brilliant or important but from what I can tell his brilliance and importance has nothing to do with his actual artwork per se.

        8. I’m sorry man. We disagree here big time. I’m not one to say you really ought to like this or that though. There is a lot of good things out there and if you like some of it to the exclusion of others then that is absolutely fine by me. However, from what you said here I see a childlike and really juvenile understanding of art and poetry if there is any understanding at all. You are speaking from a place of absolute ignorance and trying to say that despite the learned opinions of literally every single person who is in any way serious or educTed about these things that the stuff you don’t like is total junk and, I say this with all sincerity, you are absolutely and non negotiable wrong.
          That said, I am sure there are plenty of other things to chat about where we can speak much easier. But this has become like trying to explain to a child why vegetables are good for them.

        9. trying to say that despite the learned opinions of literally every
          single person who is in any way serious or educTed about these things
          that the stuff you don’t like is total junk

          That amounts to “it’s smart because people who are said to be smart say it is smart.” That’s not much of an argument at all.
          I believe that sort of argument is better known as an “appeal to authority”, and I can think of several reasons why such [educated] folk would disingenuously make such claims.
          BTW, for a while now whether or not I’ve liked the art in question has been immaterial.

          But this has become like trying to explain to a child why vegetables are good for them.

          If that were the case then specific, factual reasoning for your case, however abstracted, could be made.
          So far, that hasn’t happened.

        10. Sokurov is one of the greatest visual film directors of the last 50 years and he thinks most modern art (i.e.from the 20th century onwards) is fucking garbage. Is he ignorant too?
          Some people just prefer the ’roundness’ of more classical forms.
          I like Pollock though, and Rothko, but I understand why many don’t, and I still wouldn’t take either of them over the likes of Goya or Vermeer.

        11. What one prefers and what is good is the point. If Sokurov enjoys certain art over other art than that is fine. If he thinks modern art is garbage than he is without taste and absolutely ignorant.

  8. 11. When you talk about a sucessful person, the loser finds one trait of the person that he finds to be poor and holds that against the person.
    Ex: Joe was a killer salesmen. He sold 20 houses in a month.
    Loser: Yeah, he just caught the housing boom. Hes a douche.
    Losers see others sucess as a reminder of their own personal failures. They always try to find something stupid to rationalize away their own lack of sucess.

    1. I had not seen that very frequently, but good point, I do recall that a few times now that you mention it.
      Projection + trying to cut down others who make it in life.

    2. What the loser in this scenario doesn’t see is that a winner becomes a winner by making circumstances chime with such fertile surroundings.

    3. Losers within family are pros at this passive aggressive type of shit. Bashes other family members, puts down wife etc. Avoid toxic cop outs like this.

    4. Yes, the envious “friends/family”, these fuckers are nice to your face but shit on you behind your back, especially if you are successful at anything. Massive jealousy if you have a nice car, or a nice house or are banging top pussy. They don’t realize the amount of work you put in to make those successes happen. Fuck em.

      1. Yeah, I was once jealous of guys who had a head start in life, and was a little negative towards them. I was clearly jealous and a bit insecure due to bitterness about myself.
        Nowadays I give a thumbs up and “good job, man, good for you” to guys who are doing ok, are cool, are with a cute woman, etc.
        Much better.

        1. Yep, I used to do the same when I was a young buck and did not know any better. I give a thumbs up now and want to know what steps they took. Always wanting to improve.

        2. If a person got it on their own fair and square I don’t care. Even they inherited fair and square obtained wealth.
          However my attitude changes for the worse when someone has used government force to get where they are. Taken my productivity and applied to their riches. Even worse when they were already rich or wealthy and then demanded I and millions of others be taxed for their new ventures. So i have ire for politicians, crony capitalists, TBTF bankers, etc.
          Some say that makes me a loser because I should just the play the game as it is. I couldn’t look myself in the mirror if I did that. If I had car company because the right campaign donations got me a half a billion dollars to play with I would feel the whole thing was tainted.

        3. Every system profits someone in some way and disadvantages others. There are many factors in life that an individual just has no influence over. Growing up with shitty parents, poverty, bad location, shitty friends, whatever. I think there’s at least a little hypocrisy in your values. But that’s okay, of course. Who isn’t a little hypocritical at times.

        4. Hypocrisy? Huh? It’s very simple, did you get rich by having the government threaten people with violence or not? I’m not talking shitty parents or friends or any such crap. I am talking did you have legislation passed to get yourself a crony contract? Did you use your friends in government to take people’s homes so you could redevelop the area? Did you get into political office and then structure the law for your own personal profit? The standard of judgement is did you apply the government’s monopoly on legal violence for your personal gain or not?

        5. Why do you focus on the word ‘government’ so much? Government is basically just people with power. If a businessman uses his power to do the same thing another does with government, I don’t see much of a difference. Sure, you can say ‘he did it by himself’. Then again, you can’t. He still had to convince other people to do it.
          What about mafia? Do you see a moral difference between government and mafia? I don’t.
          If you try to leave out the word ‘government’ and abstract your concept further into, say, concrete actions that humans can do, where does it get you?

        6. Government is the monopoly on legal violence. When you say someone does something with government that is exactly the same as doing it with a gun in your hand pointed at the person you’re taking from. It is not voluntary exchange. A legitimate business is based on voluntary exchange. Nobody forces you to buy an iPhone. Steve Jobs, good for him.
          There is no moral difference between government and mafia. They are the same thing. Criminal. To prove your case of hypocrisy you need to show where I considered criminal actions legitimate. That will be difficult because I did not. I was pointing out that using the state results in ill-gotten wealth because it is through violence, like a mafia protection racket.
          Many people have a delusion that it is not criminal when it is done through the state. It is and is every bit as illegitimate as if were done with hired thugs. You express this delusion by considering power based on voluntary decisions and power of the state the same thing. Elon Musk with PayPal? Great, good for him. Elon Musk with Tesla Motors? Crony capitalist thief.
          The businessman actually has no power. He’s a servant to his customers. Fickle customers. That’s why businesses get in bed with the state. The state has actual power from the monopoly on legal violence. The legitimate businessman has no real power. His customers can walk away or go to a competitor in an instant. His employees can start their own companies or go work for someone else. Government is needed to provide power to him. To limit choices.

        7. Men that are winners are our role models. Let’s share trade secrets and learn from good examples.

        8. Exactly. I could act like a bitch and cut down successful guys or befriend them and learn from them.
          I’ll take the 2nd option. It seems like today most boys or men do the opposite: they insult and cut down more successful men. Painfully obvious insecurity and jealousy, I’d say.

        9. “Many people have a delusion that it is not criminal when it is done through the state. It is and is every bit as illegitimate as if were done with hired thugs”
          No, I fully agree with you there. But I’d go farther and say that the words ‘criminal’ and ‘illegitimate’ don’t really have inherent meaning, as they are conformity ideas enforced through the state in the first place. To say something is ‘criminal’, to me, lacks power to convince.
          If we abstract the whole thing down to ‘somebody takes something from you with threat of violence’, that makes it more … real. But then, surely we can both think of ‘legitimate’ ways of taking something from someone with force. For example, when someone has debts, doesn’t pay taxes, or otherwise breaks social norms.
          So what I meant to say was that the lines may be a bit blurry outside of extreme cases like the ones you described.

        10. So you don’t believe in natural law? If another person is in your way, just murder him because these are fuzzy constructs without inherent meaning? Well then, if that’s the case let me go get a gun. I’ll install some James Bond style machine guns on my cars. Great for traffic. If violence is acceptable then why shouldn’t I start using it personally?
          We weren’t discussing debt repayments or social norms in this branch. We are discussing how people became rich. In most cases regular people can’t enforce debts with force personally and the government certainly won’t do it for us. Of course government enforces taxes with violence though, that’s its cut of the action, just like the mafia would it eventually sends thugs if payment isn’t received.
          Violence is very a clear line I draw with no hypocrisy. You’re either using it to enrich yourself or you’re not. Furthermore if people in mass decided tomorrow that violence was acceptable there wouldn’t be a damn thing government could do to stop it. That’s another illusion. Order is maintained because almost everyone benefits from it, not because father government will punish us.

        11. I am not quite sure about natural law. What I would say is that we have instincts which follow certain observable laws, so to speak.
          My comment was not an attempt to social-constructivize the concept of violence. In fact, I wanted to make it even clearer what it is about. Something does not upset us because it is ‘criminal’. It upsets us because our instincts are (natural or not) telling us that something is fishy.

        12. Elon Musk already started and sold a successful company before that. He also escaped South Africa via his mother’s Canadian citizenship to get the outside chance to attend college in America because he knew it was the best. He’s since invested almost his entire fortune in other ventures he truly believes in, risking bankruptcy at least twice to keep SpaceX going. Elon is far more intelligent and capable than perhaps an entire hemisphere of other men and you’re pissed off because our government wanted to promote electric vehicles? The US gov has paid many times more farm subsidies for fucking corn (that it doesn’t even need) than the EV industry has recieved to this point. And if he can corner the market, including reinventing the power grid in the process, America will be able to post another win in tech.

        13. I respected him until he decided on crony capitalism. His risk taking with his money is his business. If he had risked his paypal fortune without taking from taxpayers and savers then I would still respect him.
          But but look over there someone is worse is not acceptable. That’s simply relativism. Say someone gets hammered, completely drunk, BAC of 0.20, drives off and kills one person. Should he be able to say well the POTUS oversees a drone program that has killed hundreds of innocent people so he should be excused?
          Don’t get me started on the corn lobby. The corn lobby doesn’t make a good example here because it’s not one guy to point to, but a diffuse group of related corporate and political interests. ADM is at or close to the top of that. Would it make you happy if I looked up the name of the CEO of ADM and used his name and nobody knew who I was talking about?
          Good ideas are not an excuse either. All those corn subsidies were good ideas from someone too. Good ideas are opinions and like assholes everyone has one. I have good ideas frequently. Should I be able to steal a portion of every american’s income to fund them? Or is that only for “winners”? Once you’re a “winner” and have the right friends then you get to steal from others and have your fan base excuse it? What if someone were never a winner in marketplace and instead always operated some sort of political con to wealth? What about a hybrid? In Illinois we have Mike Madigan. He created a property tax system that drives business to his law firm. He makes millions. That’s just the start of it.
          Those here who think that this sort of thing is fine is well in principle agreement with the feminists. They are playing with the same principles of whatever social manipulation works. Whatever can be gotten through political means. By siding with the political means that means the productive man is almost always to be the loser. Because that’s what they are all making a claim on, what the producers create.

        14. Clearly what is happening in Illinois is a cottage industry and that should be illegal. It’s a false equivalency to compare him to Musk. My point on the corn subsidies is to say Big Gov has a history of wasting money with good intentions. I’m not with socialism but some exceptions can be made to jump start a potentially great industry. I don’t believe Musk has gambled that money though I do believe he’s guilty of outkicking his coverage at times. In a culture where independence and people with vision are slowly being phased out in favor of groupthink, it’s nice to see an intelligent person swinging for the fences. If he didn’t exist those incentives would have still been available but to someone far less deserving I’m sure. I also do not give a shit to look up your examples as you clearly have some built up hatred about the main topic and want it to spin in all directions. To the point of the article you seem to be whining a lot about someone with opportunities and success. If you have these great ideas, I want you to hit it hard. Don’t give up bc Big Gov didn’t give you tax credits. Your disdain for government seems rooted in some naive idea that it’s supposed to be perfect instead of the flawed form it takes (from being ran by career politicians).

        15. “if people in mass decided tomorrow that violence was acceptable there wouldn’t be a damn thing government could do to stop it.”
          With modern weaponry, I’m not so sure about that. There is a reason why governments in the developed world don’t get overthrown like they used to in the past. Kings would get overthrown if the people were dissatisfied enough, but in the modern first world, that doesn’t really happen anymore.
          Is this partly because people are better off economically and become complacent? Sure. But it is mainly because of modern weaponry. Even in countries where people aren’t doing so well economically (like Greece), I doubt there’s much the citizens could do to revolt against their government.
          I understand that in the US, people are armed, but I’m not sure it’s enough to overcome the government power and modern weaponry. If it got to a civil war, do you not think government would nuke the rebel-held areas if they had no other choice?

        16. Musk is every bit as crony capitalist as the corn industry, the big banks, the defense industry, etc. He’s like so many that make it. They decide then to use the government connections to feed on taxes. To get special deals. Then hide behind things being “good ideas” and have apologists argue for them.
          Musk is every bit a part of pushing the groupthink. You have to be on board with the group think to get the political money.
          If I am loser for refusing to use government to steal from my neighbors for my personal success, then I’m a loser. At least I can honestly say I didn’t steal. If winners are people who steal, then I don’t want to be a winner. I’m not a thief. There’s no other spin or direction. It’s simple, don’t be a thief, don’t use violence. My line is simple and clearly stated. You’re the one bringing in other directions by trying to excuse Musk because there are other people who are worse or it’s just the way things are and all the other usual excuses his fan base makes for his choices. Choices his billions mean he didn’t have to make. All I did was shoot down your arguments of degree for the nonsense they are.
          It’s not a question of flaws. It’s a question of basic morality and question of intellectual consistency. A question of principle. If you’re going to excuse it as flaws, as opportunities, as playing the game as it is, then you can’t complain about the feminists, the SJWs, the community organizers, the bushes, the clintons, Obama, the Jesse Jacksons, the Al Sharptons, welfare receiving immigrants, and all the rest that this site rails about. Because all those people are doing is becoming personally and group successful at the expense of others by using the system as it is. The wealthy so-called elite set up the incentives and they follow them. The politicians set things up and they follow them. If you excuse Musk for that reason you must also excuse all the rest who play the game as it is. Complaining about them and then defending Musk is intellectually inconsistent.

        17. I was addressing violence in general, not revolution here. If people in mass decided they could do violence against their neighbors government couldn’t stop it. Even the military on the street could not stop it. They can’t even effectively stop a riot. People aren’t criminal as a rule because it’s not mutually beneficial not because government will punish them. A very small percentage of the population is criminal and threat of punishment doesn’t stop them.
          Government couldn’t stop mass revolution either. People are controlled mentally and emotionally by government. They are conditioned from the time they are children. That’s how it works. If the population has to be controlled by force it can’t be controlled.
          If the mental hold broke and people just decided not to obey any more, government would quickly not be able to do much. All it can do is try to isolate people here and there. It can’t stop a mass of people who refuse to obey unless it murders them. But when it does that it loses the mental hold on even more people as a result.
          So as long as government can keep the manipulation going, keep fear up by jailing or murdering a few resistors here and there it can maintain power but once millions decide to stand up it’s only a matter of time before it falls.

        18. Since no one wanted to pay through the nose to buy his shitty car, he got his gangster friends to force you to pay for other people to buy his shitty car.

        19. DISCLAIMER: The following is purely an intellectual thought experiment, and should not in any way be taken as a call to violence. I am proud to be an American and I oppose any and all violence against the American people or the American government.
          .
          .
          .
          So then why did it used to be far more common for governments to be overthrown? Do you really think something like the American Revolution could have happened if the British had had nukes and modern weaponry? I don’t think so.
          In the old days prior to the Industrial Revolution, kings would be overthrown if the population got tired of them and enough people organized against the king. That is essentially what happened during the American Revolution but was also very common in Europe.
          Do you really think that the reason it isn’t common anymore is because of some kind of “mental hold” that modern governments have over their people that was somehow absent in ancient kingdoms? If anything, people in ancient kingdoms felt more loyalty towards their government, not less. The reason it is so much harder (virtually impossible) for a dissatisfied population to overthrow its own government is because of the weaponry that governments have.
          The only way to overthrow the government would be to get the military to turn against them, but in that case you end up with a military dictatorship.

        20. Well if the entire military turned against its own government, then obviously they would win (absent foreign intervention), but in that case you end up with a military dictatorship.

        21. The first modern innovation was Prussian schooling. This was followed by the scientific management of people. Slavery advanced considerably in the 20th century.
          Slavery through violence is very expensive and as you point out has a high risk of slave revolts. New systems are simply much more efficient with lower risks.
          In the ancient world people knew they were slaves and knew who their owners were. Today few people even realize they are slaves and fewer yet can even identify their owners. Maybe a few of their owner’s minions and usually no more than a handful of the ownership class.
          You can’t rebel against what you don’t know. People are misguided to their neighbors as being their oppressors. It’s the republicans’ fault. It’s the democrats’ fault. That’s part of the perfection of the system.
          Anyway this would be a long discussion…. this summary is as good as any:

        22. I’m familiar with Stefan Molyneux but I hadn’t seen that video yet.
          I agree with everything you said. My argument is that modern technology (including, but not limited to, modern weaponry) makes this slavery possible.
          Prussian schooling developed as a response to the Industrial Revolution, because they wanted to train children how to be good factory and corporation workers from an early age. I already went over how modern weaponry makes it basically impossible for people to revolt, which incentivizes government to disregard the will of the people (since they know they basically can’t be overthrown).
          Obviously, it’s to the elites’ advantage to keep themselves hidden, and for the public not to know who really runs things. I believe that is due to modern technology, and also democracy. Modern technology allows for private communication from a distance. This means that wealthy donors, for example, can communicate with politicians without having the public know that they’re communicating. It is also due to democracy, because if we had monarchy, we would know who is in charge and who will be in charge in the future. There are no campaigns or political donations or anything like that. Also, monarchs have less of an incentive to be corrupt, but I won’t go into that now, it would be too long.

        23. It’s not just Molyneux it was just the handiest to me at this moment. I’ve seen the same put forth by others and of course it was just confirmation and additional information to what I had already surmised.
          Prussian schooling and all which has developed from it does far more than make good factory workers and such. It is designed to break the spirit for learning and more. To make dependents, to make people who cannot revolt. Sheep revolting against mutton as the famous quote goes.
          Modern weaponry assumes a military willing to kill its own people or the importation of foreign military. If it is military force that is required to hold a people back from revolution the system’s design has failed.
          People refuse to believe the politicians are controlled. They think their vote matters. They thing that by voting they can fix things. That’s what (in part) keeps revolution from happening. People have outlets of spinning a hamster wheel. Distractions of professional sports and more. They are kept living paycheck to paycheck so they can’t pay attention to things. They are misdirected. So much goes into keeping people imprisoned in their mind that it is indeed the greatest tool for keeping power.
          Ever try to discuss freedom, actual freedom with regular people? They are afraid of it. What about the roads? Their neighbors will murder them. On and on with conditioned responses that have no relationship to observable reality.
          If the owners have to physically bring the weapons out they’ve already lost. Once the mind is lost and all that’s left is physical violence it’s only a matter of time before collapse. Military victory subduing the population crumbles eventually.
          How have the US military’s adventures in foreign occupation gone? All that might and they couldn’t win. It would be no different domestically once people’s minds were lost.

        24. I’m sure our military would kill its own people (those who they deem as “rebels”) if the alternative was to be overthrown. Even if a large portion of the population rose up, the US government would not just fold and give up. If anything, they might offer to make certain concessions or to pay the rebels off in exchange for their surrender (like they recently tried to do in Colombia with the communist rebels), but if the rebels persisted, the US government 100% would kill them and bomb their strongholds rather than allowing themselves to be overthrown.
          As far as recent US military operations in the Middle East, we did win in Iraq and Afghanistan. We overthrew Saddam Hussein pretty easily and we temporarily overthrew the Taliban in Afghanistan. If there were certain failures, it was because of the rules of engagement imposed by our government (namely under Obama). The same is true for the Vietnam War. During Vietnam, our military was given very specific rules of engagement regarding combat when civilians were present, and being careful not to cross the border into neighboring countries. The North Vietnamese fighters were not bound by the same rules, which is a big reason why we lost. The same is true for current operations in the Middle East. If we wanted to, absent foreign intervention, we could conquer pretty much any country we wanted in the Middle East. Just the fact that we have nukes and they don’t means we have the capacity to conquer them if we really wanted.
          Lots of people know the politicians are controlled. In every democratic country, you hear people bitching about how corrupt the leaders are. The thing is, as long as 50% of the population is willing to vote for you, you stay in power. If Clinton, for example, can get enough uninformed people to vote for her, there’s nothing the rest of the population can do about it. Democracy devolves into mob rule.
          When the Americans revolted against Britain in the 18th century, what Britain had done to provoke the Americans was far less than what globalists have done to us recently. Back then, we went to war over far less than what is being done to us today. One reason for that is because people today are more complacent, but I would say the main reason is because in today’s world, revolting is not even an option. Unless you can literally get a majority of the population to revolt with you, you will get crushed. And even with a literal majority, you can still potentially get nuked if the government gets pissed off enough. The best you can hope for is to get the government to make concessions. Also, anyone today who tries to revolt knows he is risking a lengthy prison sentence.

        25. Victory was redefined to declare victory. The occupation didn’t achieve anything. Once violence has to be used on that level to control a population, even if successful, the government has already lost. It’s just a matter of time before it packs its bags and leaves if overseas or packs it in domestically.
          Rules of engagement? You mean not killing everyone and turning it into a glass parking lot. Because that’s the only way once mental control of a population fails. There’s no other way but to kill everyone that’s not on their side. That’s why commie revolutions are so murderous. They take power by force and they have to keep killing and killing and killing and killing those they cannot win over mentally to stay in power. Hitler had consent to rule. People believed him. People believed in Stalin and yet Stalin still had to kill millions to stay in power.
          You can conquer the land, but you can’t win after that with violence. Violence just creates fear, it doesn’t create a self policing society that believes. If your tool is just violence you have to keep killing non-believers. Non-believers infect the population with the wrong thoughts. Violence based rule keeps killing until there is no one left to kill or until it fails.
          People believe in globalism. They’ve been slowly conditioned to. This is a century and half long project now. People believe the lies. They believe the elements of agenda 21 and much more are good things. They don’t fight because their minds are controlled. They are complacent for the reasons I put forth earlier. Distraction, diversion, misinformation, conditioning, and the rest.
          If they weren’t ruling through the mind why is it they are so damn’d determined to get a hold of the children at younger and younger ages? Why are they trying to break families so people have one loyalty to the state?
          Violence is a primitive, costly, and inefficient method of human farming.
          How did the eastern block maintain power? People who knew better didn’t know who the true believers were that would turn them in. Mental control. The fear wasn’t the military it was their informant co-workers and neighbors. The ones who believed the government bullshit hook line and sinker. I have little fear of the cops or military showing up at my door in the coming years if people around me still believe in some degree of freedom of speech. But if they lose that belief and think they should turn in those who don’t parrot official narratives then I am dead man walking.
          When the wall fell it fell was because everyone stopped pretending to believe at once. No amount of military or informants could stop it.
          Sure, I don’t think fedgov will go peacefully. It probably will nuke domestic cities or other horrors to try and hold power. But once it’s down that road it’s just a matter of time before collapse. It’s got to keep people believing. Why do you think it pushes voting so much? It’s got to keep people invested in the illusions. Keep them believing.
          They can only pick off people one by one. When a city of a couple million don’t obey there’s nothing it can do short of mass killings and once those start they have to keep going until either everyone is dead or the government collapses. It’s a battle of minds. Minds keep things this way. If the mass changes its mind it ends.

        26. Yeah, OBVIOUSLY it is more efficient to run a government where the people aren’t violent and willingly submit to your rule.
          But on the off chance that the people do revolt, the government isn’t just going to give up and go away, like you claim. They very well may make some important concessions, but they’re not just gonna give up and let someone new take power. It just ain’t gonna happen. They would nuke their own people before they just surrender.

        27. Fedgov is especially violent, but some governments have just packed it in when they lost the illusion of legitimacy. When they lost people’s minds. The soviet union and most of the eastern bloc just shut down when people didn’t believe any more.

        28. i agree……i watched the government prop up farmers for years (i grew up in farm country) and now that things are a little better, the arrogant bastards would have you believe the did it on their own…….and the government is still mailing them checks

        29. Ayn Rand said something along the lines of (paraphrasing) “it’s a mark of an evil man to be offended at another man’s success.” It’s one of the things I always think of when I hear leftists claim that her work is devoid of any value.

        30. I just point out in company they are distancing themselves from success and befriending failure. Makes them look really stupid for attacking me.

        31. Before the age of technology. Which makes suppressing such behavior infinitely easier. People used to have private conversations where no one could hear. Now they do it online, and if deemed dangerous enough, mysterious ‘suicides’ will follow.

        32. We could also argue that technology makes it easier. Private sector tech evolves far quicker than anything the government can make. Hell, we will soon be at the point where anyone can make a gun at home. The government will not be able to keep up.

        33. You can already print an AR with a commercial 3D printer, it’s on YouTube.
          Just need to ‘legally’ buy ammo.

        34. If we’re talking about fighting the army, sure. But the army will not turn on the government; many of them keep their family on the base.

        35. OK so we’re back to the beginning. Many times in history the army has turned on the rulers. Their family being on the base is an advantage right?

        36. Suppose could buy a reloading kit and make your own, which allows you to make something a bit more exotic than over the counter merchandise.

        37. It is not, it is a hostage situation. The US started as the regular army turning on the colonists and irregular militias forming their own army to combat it. If we want the world to change, we’re going to have to fight our own battles; the enemy has entrenched its power too much for it to go down any other way.

        38. Not so sure. A lot of Eastern European regimes collapsed without a shot being fired 25 years ago.
          I think it is hard to predict exactly how a revolution will go down. Might be bloody, might not be.

      2. Ugh you’re right about family. I’ve had to “wall off” people who should be close family for this very reason.

      3. Jealousy for top pussy is especially annoying. These guys pay the price for being out of shape beta chumps, while I pay the costs to be the boss. They speak and act from jealousy but never tasted a drop of success from doing their own work to make pussy happen.

      4. And there’s something extremely rewarding about having little support from those you expect it and you still weather the storm, plow forward and rise like a champ.

      5. I’m a glass artist and recently a panel of mine was on the cover of a national glass magazine. I know about 100 glass artists, most of whom I’ll assume saw that cover.
        2 emailed me congrats.
        OTOH, I love to give a “nice job” when I see one. Don’t get that.

    5. When you talk about a sucessful person, the loser finds one trait of the person that he finds to be poor and holds that against the person.

      Reminds me of the kind of troll who keeps seeking reasons not to vote Trump…
      “He isn’t perfect”
      “He has serious shortcomings”
      “He once grabbed a pussy and I don’t like that”

      1. “Hes only wealthy cause his dad gave him a million dollar loan”.
        Id say he did well with that million. Most lotto winners are broke in less than 10 years.

        1. Not forgetting the old “he’s been bankrupt twenty times” schtick.
          Yeah, like no entrepreneur ever went broke, ever.
          I guess instead he should have just taken paychecks from corrupt Middle Eastern governments, and dodged bankrupcy that way, instead of having the balls to go out into the world and make something for himself.

        2. His daddy got him 100 million in bank loans secured so he could ride the late 20th century exponential growth bonanza.
          I’m sure pointing that out just makes me a bitter “loser”.
          Ive had multiple solid business ideas and inventions but no help whatsoever because I don’t suck cock.
          You guys have a cartoonishly American outlook.

        3. My daddy was a CPA who hired me to work for him in his tax practice and taught me the business and now that he’s dead I’m carrying on. I wouldn’t be where I am without him but I still had to get up early in the morning and pass the tests and do the work and suffer the stress of doing the job.

        4. Ideas without ambition are meaningless. You have a “lazy cunt” outlook on life.
          To succeed you’ll need to drop it and pick up your work boots.

        5. Everyone has had “multiple solid business ideas”. That means fuck all. You are definitely a bitter loser. But at least you already know that. Admitting it is the first step towards a better life!

        6. Reminds me of the tale of JP Morgan’s childhood, where his father dumped a million dollars down in front of him, had him pick it up and said “Now you know what it feels like, learn to earn it yourself”.

        7. Virginia militia?
          Their namesake state is dominated by DC neocons and ultra-leftist globalist democrats, many of whom are gun-grabbers.
          Maybe they should spend more time cleaning up their “own house” rather than ragging on The Donald?
          …Trump paid these “debts” with his ultra-liberal daughter and second-born son.

        8. “Ive had multiple solid business ideas and inventions but no help whatsoever because I don’t suck cock.”
          Have you put together a business plan and made your pitch in front of an Investment bank?

        9. Most people have stupid ideas…like your parents holding off on the abortion.
          I’m not a loser, just not wealthy – and I understand the system is indeed rigged.

        10. Yes, that guy gets in the face of these goons and officials, armed…He’s kind of tone deaf and a bull in a china shop, but he has heart and balls. He’s probably going to get himself shot.

        11. parasitic do nothings always get their kike panties in a wad when called on it. You’re a spiritual baby boomer…lol

        12. Nope, you’re making shit up. I work hard and smart, but have enough honesty to see that rent seeking cunts and parasites have taken over. 62 people own half the wealth of the planet. If you don’t see that it’s a rigged game, and are still getting high off your “bootstrap” farts, I can’t help you.

      2. I’m neutral on Trump. Trump has played the game as it is. He’s used the government, used politics, artificially low interest rates, etc to enrich himself sometimes at the expense of people who had no say in the matter. So that’s the bad, but he, unlike others who will offer various stock platitudes and pretend the system is fair will say point blank and honestly that he did what the system required and the system is bad. He’s also made the right enemies over the last year or so, so there’s that. Goes a fair way to mitigate the ire.

        1. Clinton often criticizes Trump for his evil business deeds. But businessmen are supposed to look after their profits, politicians to look after the common good. I think Trump talks good talk as a politician, but will he walk the walk? We don’t know, but we do know Clinton is mostly after her own good.

        2. Trump’s evil business deeds were done by paying off people like HRC and he has stated so openly. I don’t like him because he did them, but being honest about how crooked the system is and saying that the contributions he made were to get things done or protect himself has a bit of a canceling effect in his present situation.

    6. I posted on this a long time ago. Doesn’t mater who it is, people will hate either openly or behind your back if your more successful, jacked etc.. than they are. The end result is having to meet new peers as we progress.

    7. “Loser: Yeah, he just caught the housing boom. Hes a douche.” << I’ve only been called a douche once to my face in this lifetime. It was by a snarky bitch, part of a social group I was trying to land one of her hot friends.
      My response: “You’re God damned right I’m a douche, a douche cleans rotten cunt, like this cunt of a society we live in.” – the whole group stood there stunned. I banged the girl 6 days later.

    8. It may be a biased observation but I’ve noticed leftists in general explain any success of others away in this fashion, especially if it’s business or finance related.

      1. Luck plays a big role in life, there is no escaping it. A lot of people are successful because they know the right people and/or are great at hustling and self promotion, but they are not necessarily more talented or skilled than many others who could hold things down just as well if not better if they were given the same opportunity.
        The fact is that most people die in the class they are born in. Sure you can work your way up, but that is much harder to do in today’s world than it was 40 years ago.
        The reason people (not just leftists) get bitter and indignant is because not only do we live in a world of increasingly centralized wealth, but it is also a time when individuals can get rich and/or successful by bringing nothing of real value to the table. E.g Kardashians etc. Where would they be if they didn’t from money and had the right connections?
        We don’t have to bring down successful people by pointing this out, but successful people often lack humility about their achievements, and often these achievements are questionable.
        My father made some money in the 70s and 80s. He was a hard worker but not the sharpest knife in the drawer. He was definitely lucky to get in before the big corporations colonized his industry and wiped out most small traders. He would have been worth a lot more if he got out early enough, if he didn’t have that heroic individualist mentality that some have on here.

    9. Well said. Usually that trait you are referring to is “lucky”. He’s lucky, that’s why he’s successful. Those degrees, professional certifications and good job just fell out of the sky and into his lap.
      I want to punch people in the face when they say that I am lucky. There are few commentators on this site who have the loser mentality and this is one of their lines of attack.
      Before lending money to any loser always remember: no good deed goes unpunished.

      1. “All luck, He’s just the right man at the right place at the right time.”
        Key word here is hes the “right man”. All the luck in the world does no good if you dont take advantage of it. There is nothing wrong with getting lucky and catching a break for once in life. Instead of complaining out of jealously, people should spend more time trying to put themselves in position to catch a break in life.
        Losers tend to lose because they dont believe in themselves and they sit on the sidelines in life. They never seek self improvement, sucessful friends, mentors, and the things that increase one’s odds to “get lucky”.

    10. Getting rid of those types of people is the absolute best thing I’ve ever done in my life. It was a success on its own.
      The old adage “You’re the average of the five people you spend the most time with” is very true.
      All I did two years ago was dropping loser friends and acquaintances that only spewed negativity towards whatever I was doing. Everything else fell into place. I wasn’t even trying to change specific things, but my mindset, however, did change completely.
      Fast forward to now and I’m in the best shape of my life and have found ways to make money on the side (which would have never happened before when all my ideas got shut down by losers).
      Surround yourself with positive people even if your worldviews differ and see yourself become another man. Mindset is everything.

    11. Truth right here. Every loser I’ve ever met pretended to care about purity or whatever (failing to hold themselves to the same standards) always was trying to ignore cold, hard results. They always painted an ugly picture.

  9. 99 times out of a hundred that you loan someone tools or money, you end up begging for your own shit back at a late date. Then you end up with only half paid back, nothing, or mangled tools. Never fails.

    1. doesn’t mean you should never do it .. but always with eyes open. similar to the rule about stock market gambling.. never anything you can’t afford to lose.

      1. Id go more along the lines of never do it. If an adult is shit broke, they can go title loan their car or give plasma, not my problem. If their mommy and daddy or sissy etc wont loan them the money-the writing is on the wall, either their own family doesnt trust them or they come from a long pedigree of broke motherfuckers…possibly both. So why would they resort to begging a friend for money or pay you back ? It’s a con.

    2. I refuse to be a lender of money. If someone is an adult he can borrow money the adult way… credit cards or a bank loan. And if he doesn’t qualify for that, that’s on him to remedy that situation.

      1. Only way Id lend money any longer is if they give me heavily discounted collateral that I can flip when they flake out. However, that’s also why this world has pawn shops, someone has to make a buck at the expense of losers.

  10. “It was particularly sad because these were often guys I once enjoyed the company of and was close to, and had good memories with. As time went on I saw their lives turn into sad melodramas and I realized they are a drain on our resources and motivation”.
    Red pill gold, this.
    Even more so than game articles.
    If there’s any youngsters reading – Digest this damn hard. This WILL happen

    1. I hope I can get one guy to avoid what I dealt with.
      I hope especially that no one is ever in a position like I was (outside the USA, and wasn’t going to be able to get money) and discover the hard way that someone – even family – would leave me out to dry despite all the times I helped them out of a jam.
      I’ll never forget that feeling for the rest of my life. It sucks.

    2. And for Pete’s, and your own, sake cut those losers completely out of your life. Especially if they are family. I occassionally hear about the ones I tossed years ago through mutual acquiantances and their circumstances have not changed a bit.

    1. They do not truly appreciate what they are given
      They are not willing to change
      They are broken
      …I’d add these too.

  11. These 10 points describe to perfection almost every woman I have ever known…so in a nutshell, loser men behave exactly like women. What a shock.

    1. There are definitely some parallels.
      When I was writing this I realized that in all cases each guy I knew was pretty blue-pill, too.

      1. I actually skimmed through the 10 points first, and thought the article was describing women. Heh. Then I backtracked and read the whole thing…startling, the similarities between the two factions.

        1. Interesting! But now that you mention it, you’re right. I started that train of thought while I was writing but was trying to keep it strictly about male compadres etc.

        2. “The Traits of Orbiters and the Women They Orbit” (alternate title, few changes necessary in the body of the article)…”10 Characteristics of Women That Make Them Toxic”…your article applies to a wide spectrum of individuals. I like the distillation process your demonstrated with your 10 points. Very nice. Shows a lot of thought behind the words…

        3. Thank you. I do appreciate feedback, both positive or negative.
          I’m still extremely angry (and a bit insulted) about #10. It was in the middle of confronting my then-girlfriend about her secret life I discovered that my debit card went missing, so it was a hell of a trip.
          Next time I will have a back up plan.
          It really makes you think hard about who would really try to help you if you were in a serious jam.

    2. Women turn men into emotional (rather than physical) losers if they are not good enough to handle the shit tests. These people are literally begging to be put in their place.

  12. Many years ago I had an acquaintance who was looking for work, intelligent guy just seemed to have a run of bad luck. I extended him an opportunity at my company with a close to 6 figure starting income. It went well for awhile, but within a year he had allowed all his old vices to bring himself down. He blew his entire paycheck on booze/drugs, started missing work/being late etc., ended up in prison and of course losing his job. He seemed to have lots of potential, again he was pretty intelligent, but he just could not shake his old vices. With all that new income he totally lost control of himself.

    1. If a person can count their true friends on more than two or three fingers, I think they are delusional. I think our friends help us maintain the illusion of our own grandeur, while we exchange energy (because everything is energy, in the end, our thoughts, our furniture, our buddy Joe down the street). And usually, that energy exchange is lopsided, in one direction or the other…

      1. Well not sure what you mean exactly. Maybe I could have worded it better, this guy lost his job prior to ending up there, so I suppose for him prison was the last straw.

    2. I apologize for the cryptic snarkiness of my comment. I’ve known people who blow their paychecks, miss work, etc, but don’t quite end up in prison. It’s like the difference between crashing your car in a series of fender benders versus driving it over a cliff and exploding into flames. I’ve definitely got nothing against you or your comment, which was most excellent and helpful and very much advances the discussion.

      1. No worries man, no offense was taken. I just wasn’t sure what you meant initially is all. Oddly enough I had another acquaintance who did the cliff thing, well almost. He was pretty drunk, drove off one of those super high off ramps, which killed him before paramedics arrived. That one was more sad as he was as red pill as it gets, just drank too much too often.

        1. I’m sorry to hear about that. Isn’t it interesting that some people get way with being walking disasters and manage to survive while others make less drastic mistakes and suffer catastrophe? Just goes to show you can’t be too careful. I mean, that sounds like it could have happened to a lot of us at some point in our lives.

        2. Yeah, that reminds me of an old saying… We start out in life with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience, the trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.

        3. Yeah, they say that about flying. However, I abide by the three bag theory.
          Call the third bag-training/knowledge/preparation.
          You do control that, you can do research, you can learn from others mistakes and close calls-“Hangar flying” bs sessions with other more experienced pilots, reading NTSB reports in the case of flying. Talking to divorced guys, reading blogs, considering folks who’ve done the help ’em when they’re down thing.
          Knowledge is a wonderful thing and helps you make your own luck.

        4. What a useful analogy, a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. A wise young person would assume that his bag of luck is not something he should rely upon except in emergencies.

        5. What you describe, to me is the same as experience. But the semantics don’t matter I think as it seems we’re both after the same result.

        6. I’ve dipped into my luck bag more often than not in my younger years. Looking back at some of the stunts I’ve pulled, I’m amazed that I’m still alive LOL

        7. No. Knowledge is different than experience. Knowing your system is different than having the experience of a failure.
          Example. Small commuter airplane has a generator failure at night, PIC elects to continue (it’s a short ~30 minute flight). Over-rides co-pilots recommendations to turn back, and to secure non-essential electrical systems like cabin lighting. PIC says he doesn’t want to stress passengers. They’ll just monitor the battery and if voltage starts to drop or lights start dimming they’ll secures stuff. He’s in a way trusting to luck during this experience that he’s handling. Bad move, because this experience killed him and everybody on the plane. If he had lived through it, experience would have taught him something I learned by reading the report.
          -NiCd batteries, like those in his plane have a very steep discharge cliff. They’re selected specifically because they hold voltage well ensuring instruments like gyros function properly, right up until the battery drops steeply/dies. From the time the PIC stated, “look it’s just now starting to drop and we’re almost on approach…” to impact was a couple of minutes. Power to all the electrically powered instruments/lighting were lost at the same time.
          Luck didn’t work to get the PIC through the experience. Which then would have been useful for future incidents. But a bit of knowledge would have been better than luck when faced with the experience.
          You can’t control luck. You can’t control/rush experience. But you can control knowledge. Which gives you an edge while experience is building and luck is running out…

        8. I’m a pilot and I get what your saying. To me knowledge is also experience. Maybe the analogy would be better to use the word wisdom rather than experience. We are both the same minded in our efforts in achieving our goals of gaining and utilizing knowledge/experience/wisdom rather than blindly relying on luck.
          Cheers

        9. We’re more in agreement than disagreement.
          My perspective is emphasizing to student pilots that preparations go a long way to preventing ‘bad luck’.
          As they say, there are no new mishaps, just the same mishaps with different people. I get frustrated with students who won’t learn from other folks bad experiences- the information is out there.

        10. Unfortunately, those days are mostly past, I was an instructor pilot in the military but not around flying much anymore. Other things paid far better and I had 3 college bound kids.
          A multi-engine ATP going unused, a crime against humanity!
          Fly safe.

  13. Do not bother helping out a loser. They will not appreciate it and will blame you fully if things turn south.
    By trying to help a loser, you also drown in their pity. Something they could pull it off themselves like a Man but they decide to wallow in misery and sorrow. They will also backstab you and passive aggressively plot shit behind your back.
    They get what is coming to them. They will often learn their lesson the hard way.

  14. Hey Getitgling – very insightful article. Off topic question, how long have you been on ROK (reading, commentating,etc)? I noticed you popped up during the War on our meet ups. Is that about the time you started on ROK?

    1. Hi there. I believe I had been reading starting in 2013, and posted a few things in 2014.
      What a very interesting time 2015 was!

  15. to be counted among my Friends requires two components: intent and ability.
    a person not capable (a cumulative effect of his his/her own choices, past & present) of being a friend might be a pet/project, I might feel fondness for. not a friend, on whom i can rely.
    no wishful thinking. allow people to show you who they are.

  16. I had a friend who ended up needing a place to stay for the winter, so I let him stay with me, free. I ended up losing my car keys on a trip and needed a ride from the airport. It was about 80 miles. His truck wouldn’t make it, he said. He couldn’t bring me a spare set of keys. I ended up having to rent a car. I tossed him out soon thereafter,

    1. I hope literally kicked him as you tossed him out. I’d be outraged. If you can’t even get a ride from the airport, that’s fucking ridiculous.
      I’ve done it a few times for others even in the wee hours of the morning.

  17. Admittedly, im bad with money, but every other area of my life is in good order. I have a bachelor’s degree and a well paying job. Finance is a huge part of life though so I need to get it in order. My brother too hasmall reproduced with multiple women also to my dismay. He refuses to take opportunities at all much less with any appreciation.

    1. Get out a notebook, calculator and pen. This is an Old School method..
      Tabulate your monly income minus all monthly expenses.
      Take what’s over divide by days in the month. This is your Per Diem max spending allowance.
      When you don’t use it up it carries over so can be used the next day.
      Accumulate it for weekends but don’t go over budget.
      Don’t buy on impulse save up for signifgant purchases. Don’t waste it on tarts for example.
      In your notebook keep track and guranteed at the end of the first month you’ll be at ballanced budget but more likely have a surplus.
      Allocate this to savings, investment,or if you still have it debt like student loans.
      Month after month keep track of your income minus expenses. Set regular finnacial goals and meet them.
      Following tis method I killed $26,000 in student loan debt in 18 months and still partied hard and had a good life..
      Also bought my first rental property this way borrowing $16,000 and paying back in less than a year.
      Simple system, not different than ancient times I’m sure..

      1. I’ve done some of these, plus some more, say, old school methods, like filling up coffee cans with spare change.

  18. #9 is always interesting to me. I have known men and women like this. It is entertaining to watch to say the least. My x wife could live hour to hour. Tomorrow was a 100 years in her mind.

  19. I realized years ago that giving people money hurts them.
    Yes, you heard that right. Giving people money hurts them.
    Why?
    Because when you give money you reward, enable and prolong their foolish behavior. You also create dependency. I guarantee you they will burn through the money and wind up in the exact same position again.
    I’ve found that the only way people will change behavior is if they hit rock bottom and MUST change their behavior.
    Now my go-to response when asked for money is “I don’t do that.” End of discussion.

    1. the only problem is some never find a bottom and end up homeless or something similar. I have a similar response as you though; i don’t do that or don’t have any cash laying around. The big thing is never ever ever let them move in with you. Then your asking for a beating. My brother let her daughters “boyfriend” move in. Wo. big mistake. Cops, drugs, theft, ..you name it. … I would let my daughter die in the street before bringing that into my house.

      1. “the only problem is some never find a bottom and end up homeless or something similar.”
        Not my problem.
        Not your problem either, unless you want to assume responsibility for their self-created problems and screw up your own life.

      1. That’s how I dealt with a certain fella who owed me $50. Even though I needed the money bad I told him to keep it and forget the debt, but I told him to never speak to me again.

    2. I loaned a friend money to make her mortgage. She gave me a check to cash in the future. Then I missed the small window of opportunity to cash it when the funds were actually available. Finally she went bankrupt and I got nothing.

    3. There is no “rock bottom” nowadays, the government has seen to that.
      …if only SotH Paul “Ryno” had lived up to all of the fearmongering claims the left made about him working day and night to “cut your social safety net”.

    4. Ayn Rand was basically saying the same thing. Rewarding morons for their stupidity just makes society worse.

    5. This is why in spite of my nominally being conservative or libertarian on most issues, I feel that industries like payday lending and other types of rackets that prey on poor people should not have legal standing.
      Yes I know some poor would resort to borrowing money illegally, but all these industries do is trap poor people in a prison of debt from which they can never escape. And sometimes, hearing the word “NO” will give an incentive for a poor person to get his own finances in better order, instead of relying on the “quick fix” of predatory loans.

  20. I’ve said this before on these boards, and I’ll say it again.
    Don’t help people.
    That’s right. Don’t help people.
    I’ve found that people NEVER appreciate your help. At best it’s just an utter waste of time. Here’s one story among many that helped me to realize this truth.
    A guy from my grad school found me on the alum database. He was applying for a job in my old team at a company I had just left. I agreed to meet him because hey, it’s good to help ppl right? I didn’t expect anything. I gave him valuable insights on how to get the job — what the manager liked to hear, how to answer questions, etc. He got the job. Then he sent me an email about how grateful he was, thank you so much blah blah.
    A few years later I needed a simple, cost-free favor from him. I contacted him multiple times through multiple channels. No response.
    We are all conditioned by society to follow “The Golden Rule” and just help random people unconditionally. At best it’s a waste of time. At worst it will hinder you from achieving your own goals. Nine out of ten times (minimum), people will exploit you then forget you. This is something I would never say in public. We all must pretend to follow the Golden Rule.
    The reality is my time is better spent helping myself and taking care of my business, my wife and children. I don’t bother replying to randoms contacting me for “advice” anymore.
    I’m not saying never help anyone in any circumstances. By all means help people who deserve it — those who have helped you, your close family and friends.
    Read Robert Greene’s “48 Laws of Power.” It’s a goddman bible for stuff like this.

    1. A related idea applies in the workplace. Never spend your time helping others with their projects unless you absolutely can’t get out of it.
      Helping colleagues with their projects doesn’t help you at all. They achieve their project, shine in front of management and you get nothing. Your projects are not done because you were spending time helping others with their projects.
      Note 1: You must never refuse to help. Agree to help, then half-ass or delay with an excuse. Do not give someone the opening to accuse you of “not being a team player.”
      Note 2: Always help your boss and those higher than you.
      I found in the corporate world that all that matters is big achievements for which you get the credit with management. Get others to help you, then take all the credit. No one ever got a big raise or promotion because he helped others so much.
      Also – make sure you have a good relationship with your boss. Make him look good. You could generate millions for the company but if your boss doesn’t like you you’ll never get anywhere.
      I wish it weren’t like this, but reality is the way it is not the way we wish it to be. Just what I’ve observed from 25 years of working. A big part of the reason I went into business for myself was because I was sick of the corporate bullshit.

      1. When asked to help, a good excuse is you have to run it by your boss. Then your boss can prioritize and will know you did this work.

    2. I’d rather look at this by thinking:
      “Don’t expect to be repaid for helping people.”
      I don’t mind doing “cheap” things to help people in need. I.e., someone needs a few bucks for gas every now and then, or a bite to eat, and I have extra cash to spare, ok, that’s fine… I am not going to miss it. But I’m not expecting anything back for it either.

  21. Many (most?) americans in this day and age don’t only live at their means but well above them. That’s how the prices for houses get bid up. There aren’t a lot of people who really can afford them at these prices but there are loans so up go the bids with no concern about anything but making the monthly nut today. It’s an intentionally conditioned state. The state of the consumer.

    1. Excess mortgage.Leased car(s).
      Extravagant vacations
      Always havomg latest iPhone.
      These things usually go along with…
      a zero bank balance!

      1. There’s a jpg meme thing that’s been done several times over. Just a street scene and then bubbles over each person with their net worth and what’s putting them in the hole. The richest guy is the homeless beggar with a net worth of $2.50.
        Cheap credit has distorted society in so many ways. There’s likely an entire study of hypergamy and credit. How credit use distorts social signaling etc.

  22. Whew! By this list I am not a loser. Although re: #2, I try not to make the same mistake more than 30 or 40 times :-/

  23. I had this with my cousin lately. He does the same fucking mistakes again and again. And after I told him to stop seeing that filthy bitch he has children with he says:”you are right” What happens 2 weeks later? They are back together. Some people never learn from their mistakes – Real stupidity.

  24. The really advanced loser, highly skilled at being a loser/parasite and nothing else, will also have the ability to feign “turning their life around” multiple times so that the enablers/suckers will again and again and again stupidly come to their rescue.

    1. If you realize you are one, you’re a step above these types: at least you half self introspection.
      And you can do something about it.

  25. Learnt the hard way about these sorts of people especially the last point they disappeared has soon as they had to help.

  26. “1. Their Lives Often Start With Paths That Are Difficult To Recover From”
    You bring up early marriage as an example of this. That’s short-sighted. Those bad paths start out much earlier. Why did they make such a bad decision in the first place? They were already fucked up much earlier. The paths that they started walking down that are difficult to recover from likely started between age 1 and 3. They had no choice over that.
    You say ‘not willing to make short term sacrifices’. Well, it’s not always that easy.
    But you bring up good points that are all true. Certainly I can find myself in this article in many aspects, less in others. I did use to ask for advice without following it. Here’s why: I felt an obligation to listen to other people’s advice, while I really didn’t care, because the goal I thought I needed to achieve to be happy was never the real problem. Social pressure can be a beast for weak people and instead of fixing their brokenness, they end up trying to keep up with those who are not handicapped in the same ways. It’s a losing battle. One can force oneself to fight through it for a while, but in the end, one’s demons catch up with one.
    Anyhow, I always wish there was a little more compassion for fucked up people, but I also see how it can be frustrating to deal with it.

        1. Well as you said… no one is forced to get married young, or have kids out of wedlock, or engage in other bad behaviors. They are all choices.

        2. That’s true of course. But those are really stupid choices and people wouldn’t make them if they weren’t emotionally damaged, which happened much earlier.

        3. True… not having effective parents really is an unfair disadvantage, as youngsters don’t know that what they’re doing will fuck them up later in life.

    1. I should have made the distinction that is important and gives more context to my point: they married women of poor character or who were damaged goods. They were far less likely to bring out the best in the men in question, and almost inevitably the relationship ended leaving a broken family, child support, lots of drama, etc.
      You say ‘not willing to make short term sacrifices’. Well, it’s not always that easy.” Maybe not “easy”, but it is often the critical turning point taken or not taken.
      In every case, including my own brother, that lack of taking a step in the right direction means never coming out of a paycheck-to-paycheck life, as well as continuing to be in a environent, and around others, which have a very low bar for expectations in life.
      I don’t recall knowing anyone who couldn’t have decided they wanted to make short-term sacrifices and improve their life dramatically. There’s always an excuse and a lack of even trying to see if it’s possible.
      With the opportunities and resources we have here, there’s no real excuse.

      1. There’s a lot of good stuff in the red pill/manosphere. It tends to be a bit physicalistic, materialistic, though.
        From the outside, we see a person and think ‘theres nothing stopping this person’.
        But we can’t see inside a person. We don’t see their emotional wounds, for instance.
        If we saw a person with a broken hip who’s bleeding out of his ass, we wouldn’t tell him to go train for the marathon. We would tell him to let the wound heal and then go train for the marathon.
        Emotional wounds are invisible, which is why we tend to disregard them. But they can be as crippling as broken bones. And those emotional cripples have had people ridicule them for it for so long that they started making up faux excuses about their inaction. Because nobody took them seriously when they said ‘I just cant. The pain is killing me.’

        1. Yeah, I can totally follow that. I don’t want to gloss over things, because with whatever “sense” I have now that allows me to pick up clues that people are dysfunctional (I use the term “broken”), I know there are underlying causes.
          However, when the following factors are at play:
          – They are of adult age, and nothing holding them down from making better choices
          – They complain about their circumstances yet repeatedly reap the consequences of their poor choices
          …and most importantly:
          – They receive valid constructive criticism about what they should do to improve their situation(s), yet ignore/make excuses for/disregard this wisdom
          With those factors I feel confident in accepting that they are “losers” because they have the option to change and choose not too.
          I had made plenty of poor choices in my life, but I at some point did what I had to in order to improve myself. I had a bad childhood also, but I realized it came down to decisions and a willingness to improve.
          I tried many times to encourage the best in the friends I knew and that I wrote about here, and it was a waste of time.

        2. The thing is, people are not always honest about what they really want. They are full of shit and full of fear. What can appear like a ‘bad situation that needs fixing’ to an observer may be exactly who and where they need to be at that time. Sometimes they just say ‘I want to change’, because they don’t feel confident enough saying ‘I want my life to be exactly what it is right now’. And that goes beyond ‘people have different values and personalities’. It touches upon the fact that we go through phases.
          Hey, I have a nice idea that is kinda congruent with your article. I want to make the point that you can not really do anything to help someone. I want to point out the thoughts and belief systems that automatically block out helpful advice, to make it understandable.
          You are on point with your article. But everything you miss is everything you would need to understand that they are exactly the only thing they can be at that time. This is no hokey-pokey anyway, it’s quite rational, I think. Now I dont disagree with how you feel about those people or any of the points you make. But I think that if you took the time to see past what they are saying and to look at who they really are, you would find that there are good reasons for them being exactly who they are.
          I think it’s with women like that too. We men tend to focus too much on what they say and then we conclude ‘eh, they are all inconsistent and bullshitters’. But I think that if you look past the words, you can easily see who that girl is and what she wants and what she’s about. That can include her being a bloodsucker and asshole, of course, but it can also include having compassion with that bloodsucker, because it is a bloodsucker for a reason.

  27. A relevant article.
    ‘Why do 70 percent of lottery winners end up bankrupt?’
    http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2016/01/why_do_70_percent_of_lottery_w.html
    From the article:
    The biggest problem, several finance advisers agreed, is that lottery winners give away too much money to family and friends.
    “Once family and friends learn of the windfall, they have expectations of what they should be entitled to, and many of these expectations are not rational,” said Charles Conrad, senior financial planner with Szarka Financial in North Olmsted. “It can be very difficult to say no.”

    1. Every time I hear this kind of story I always wish I could be a test case for it. 🙂
      But if I won the lottery, I’d collect anonymously and not even tell my wife until the debts were paid off and the remainder of the cash was safely invested away.

      1. From the Rotten Library:
        It’s great to be rich, but fame is a bitch. So your primary mission is to claim the money without divulging your identity or having a mental breakdown. Here’s how to do it:
        Don’t tell anyone. The single most important rule for maintaining sanity after winning the lottery is: Do everything you can to keep your precious anonymity intact. Of course that means keeping your goddamned mouth shut. Don’t share the news with your friends, neighbors, coworkers, or family. Resist even the urge to tell your spouse or significant other, at least for the time being. Otherwise you will have forever blown your one chance at being anonymous. You can always spill the beans later, after all the excitement has died down.
        Don’t sign the ticket. After you write your name on that ticket, you might as well call up and announce the news to your local TV stations and newspapers. Remember that the state lottery commission will publicize the identity of every claimant. Toss the ticket into a clean Ziploc bag (to avoid spills, etc.) and temporarily stash it someplace away from excessive heat, sunlight, pets, children, roommates, coworkers, etc. Make sure it’s someplace safe that you won’t forget.
        Act casual. Maintain your normal routine. Continue to attend work, school, church, social functions, etc. Whatever’s typical for you. When people ask you what’s up, refer to rule number one.
        Make a few photocopies. At your earliest opportunity, take a trip to a 24-hour Kinko’s around 2am when nobody’s around and make six copies of the ticket, both front and back. Use one of the self-serve machines and take any and all bad copies with you (i.e. leave none in the trash). And before you leave, doublecheck to make sure you didn’t leave the original in the machine.
        Rent a safe-deposit box. Contact your bank and see if they have any vacant safe deposit boxes, tell them you’re going on a trip and need to store some documents for a few months. Make a point of asking them how much it costs, even though you couldn’t care less. You’re trying to keep up appearances. When you go down to the bank in person to open your box, you will probably need some ID and your bank card. Bring the ticket, along with some other (fake) papers. Don’t show them the ticket, obviously. Loose lips sink ships. Stash the ticket in the box and put the box key on your keyring. Don’t lose the key.
        Open a blind trust. Hire a tax attorney. Once you’re a client, the lawyer is legally bound to maintain your confidentiality. Tell them you want to open a blind trust in order to claim the lottery prize as an anonymous trustee. Provide three photocopies of your ticket. All contact with the lottery commission will be made through your lawyer.
        Contact a financial planner. Rich people don’t tend to stay that way without a little planning. If you have the choice between annual payments and a single large payout, you should consider the big jackpot. It’s less money total, but it’s probably about the same as the annuity if you take the lump sum and invest it in interest-bearing savings bonds. However, the single large payout may incur a higher tax rate. Ask your tax experts.
        Tie up any financial loose ends. No reason to procrastinate now. Pay all those traffic fines and parking tickets. Catch up on alimony or child support payments. Settle any debts. Instruct your financial planner to scrub those black marks off your credit score, but don’t cancel your credit cards — that’ll screw up your rating. And don’t think it won’t matter anymore. It matters.
        Draft or update your last will and testament. If there were ever a time for estate planning, it’s now. Be sure to remember us by including The Rotten Codicil in your will.
        Move away. And not just out of town. We’re talking out of state, possibly out of the country. You can’t expect to keep a lid on your secret forever; information wants to be free. Maybe buy a modest house with a good alarm system in a gated community with a private security force. That ought to minimize the solicitors at your door. Also be sure to get an unlisted phone number.

        1. Great advice. Seems obvious to me but apparently some people don’t understand it.
          I heard you suddenly have “friends” come out of the woodwork once you come into large amounts of money.

        2. Depending on your state, you may not be able to claim anonymously.
          – Consider setting up a corporation vice a trust
          – If it’s a huge pot and you’re going to give a large chunk, better taxwise to have them as co-winners and have the lottery provide the check directly to them vice coming via you.
          – For a large pot, consider multiple financial planners. Odds of 4 guys all embezzling/stealing are less than 1. Several celebrities have been bankrupted or lost a lot of money when their financial folks embezzled money from them.

      2. Depends on your state, some will not allow you to claim anonymously. Some even require you to allow your picture to be taken and used in promotions. (My state prohibits this. They will release your name and where the ticket was purchased, but you have to agree to the release of any additional personal information).
        Consider buying a ‘shelf corporation’ and buying any real property under the corporation’s name. Cars, real estate etc. Harder for folks looking for you to find you since your name doesn’t appear on the title. Most of the sites on the web offering personal information are just folks who consolidate available public records– like real estate. You can also set up investment accounts under it, buy it in a state with no corporate income tax….

    2. I heard a few stories over the years about how some local family, back when I lived in my hometown, blew through the money they came into.
      A once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to be made the most of, and yet they blow through the money. Amazingly moronic.

  28. I always hate that Einstein quote, because he did over and over what had once given him success, and it failed. God does not play dice games he famously said, and physics passed him by.

    1. It never made sense to me regarding “insanity” since insanity has no rhyme or reason.
      It always seemed to me the quote should have been about stupidity, because that’s precisely how stupid people often behave (same mistakes over and over).

  29. ROK needs a proof reader dagnammit! This is just irritating to read even if there are good points.
    Heck, I’ll do it for 5$ per article just to not have to get irritated every time.
    Bad word choices, wrong form, incoherent editing are Literally Hitler!

    1. Whoah, relax. It’s not that bad. My fault for not having written it in a text editor (rather than the WordPress text entry box, which seems to make it more prone to mistakes) so I’ll check it more closely next time.

      1. Call me a pedant but I honestly do find it irritating. But it’s not just this article, it’s every article on the site as of late.
        And in my opinion ROK should have a proof reader who fixes spelling/form/edit issues prior to publication, at least for the things which are not hot trending topics.
        I’m quite sure I’m not the only one who gets irritated or annoyed.
        A text editor/word processor would fix some but not all of the issues, I personally double check every email I send, almost every comment I make etc.
        It comes off as careless to me, like having your tshirt on inside out when speaking to a crowd or something like that.
        Good topic otherwise btw. One thing puzzles me, who’s the ‘her’ referred to in point 10? Seems like an edit issue or something, like you wrote more but cut it out before publishing.

        1. I understand your points. I don’t like to be sloppy. I checked it perhaps 3 times, and caught a few things before it was published, but unfortunately some seem to have slipped by.
          Using a text editor like Word would definitely be beneficial. The WordPress entry editor doesn’t have the same proofing features, and makes it harder to view it all since you have to scroll instead of having a page layout.
          The “her” is my ex-girlfriend who played a huge role in my red-pill entrance. Being that we are limited in article word count, it kind of makes me think “KEEP IT SHORT” and perhaps I leave out information. I’ll bear that in mind next time.
          Also, moderators change some text, titles, and more before it’s published. The main pic for my article is not what I chose! I will have to find out why.

    2. One thing that I’ve noticed both here at ROK and elsewhere is the use of gender-neutral language, which really irritates me because it’s a concession to feminist ideology. An example of gender-neutral language is to say “If anyone asks for me, tell them I’m not here”, rather than the grammatically-correct form, which is “If anyone asks for me, tell him I’m not here.” The word “anyone ” is singular. Yes, you could say, in this example, “… tell him or her I’m not here”, but that’s awkward to say; therefore just say “him” and let it be understood that it could refer to either a man or a woman, in this case. I’m sure that the pervasive politically-correct mutilation of the English language is unintentional and due to habit caused by a lifetime of being surrounded by such speech, but we red-pilled men really need to make a conscious effort to avoid this feminist Newspeak. I know that I have to watch my own speech all the time because otherwise I occasionally slip in that regard. Let’s all try to talk like men from before the 1960s.

  30. Regarding point #3
    Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
    Prov 23:9 Do not speak to fools, for they will scorn your prudent words
    Regarding point #4
    Prov 26:11 As a dog returns to his own vomit, So a fool repeats his folly.

  31. I had a friend that fit this quite well. he was a very good friend, always great for conversation, hanging out, etc. Stood at my wedding. There were red flags however:
    1. With just 4 more classes to go, he dropped out of community college so he could ‘date more’ because he had an unhealthy addiction to women. A community college associates degree isnt much, but its much better than having nothing at all. I tried my best to discourage him from dropping out because he was very passionate about the field he was studying and could have led to a career.
    2. He believes in “The Secret”. If you dont know what it is, look it up and try not to laugh the entire time. He became very offended when we were discussing “The Secret” and I very bluntly said that nothing good in life will come without hard work and wise choices. You cannot ‘think’ success into your life. It doesnt work that way.
    3. Besides ‘The Secret’, he had told me about other magical ways of thinking that have no basis in logic. Ways of thinking that wise, successful people would scoff at.
    4. He was addicted to women and sex for quite awhile. He spent long hours in strip clubs pissing away a lot of his hard earned money and dated women who were pretty but complete losers with no direction or brains. The kind of women trying to coast through life on their looks and could in reality bring nothing to relationships because of their shallowness and severe mental problems. But he got laid, so in his mind thats what mattered.
    5. He met his wife off the internet (which I have no problems with, its 2016 after all), but he failed to call her on her red flags. The relationship started with little trust for eachother as they kept lying to and cheating on eachother. She has severe mental problems and after she got put on a cocktail of meds, she gained 60lbs and lost her sex drive. He was upset because she no longer looked like his favorite porn star. He and his wife constantly put eachother through the emotional ringer and the marraige is horrible.
    6. After he got married, his addiction went from women to pills. He quickly became a skittle head and his decent into drug addiction got pretty bad. His health and physical appearance faded, he didn’t buy new clothes anymore, and he had a classic pill junkie behavior set. Several of our mutual friends tried to get me talk to him about it, but knowing him the best, I knew he had to suffer the consequences of his choices for him to learn anything, and that could take a couple years to play out.
    Now we are in our mid 30’s. Luckily, he and his wife opted out of having children. Their marriage is horrible, they are always on the verge of divorce, and he is woefully underemployed working at an electronics store as a clerk. I dont make much but I make literally twice as much as him. Oh yes….hes back in college taking classes to work in IT, because he doesnt realize that those stupid IT college commercials that get played on the radio are a little deceptive with all the claims they make of doubling your income in one year.

    1. Damn, that’s a mess. A classic story, though.
      Regarding #2, self-improvement books I’ve read in which one uses affirmations and the author describes how they believe at some point the universe (for lack of better understanding) provides an opportunity, still assumes hard work and putting in the effort will be needed, not handed to us for free.

      1. ‘Think and Grow Rich’ and ‘The Success System That Never Fails’ are both excellent on both these counts. They preach getting your mentality and mindset correct- but also on developing the habits and attitudes you need in order for your dreams to manifest.

        1. Scott Adams has a very good book also as recommended by Mike Cernovich.
          “How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big.” Just finished it last weekend. I’ll check out those you mentioned.

    2. Your friend also seems like the type who would fall for pyramid schemes and MLM scams like Amway or Primerica looking to make a quick buck.

  32. You are talking about the kind of people who can barely understand a calendar. The kind of people who can’t make any change in their lives because they’ll require a favor from you first. You’ll have to give them a ride across town. Or loan them money for the bus. Or whatever. It will never occur to them to find a way … figure it out … suck it up and deal …
    If you want to keep them in your life, set some boundaries. If they don’t respect them, they’re gone.

    1. True. I got tired of money going down a hole but most annoying was trying to make the effort to encourage them to change, and the bizarre way they responded (obviously not wanting to improve).
      Eventually I realized there was no net positive to having them in my life. It is a shame, but that’s life.

  33. I see most of you are slaves to mammon and define succes with money and pussy. Real alpha is not bound to the world or the things in it, you see, as spiritual beings we are created in gods eternal image. To the extent one strives to obtain mammons currency, to the same extent one can be bought and manipulated by the owners of that currency. This one goes deep – maybe your currency is say to be popular and shine, how do you react when somebody is more popular in front of you and steals your shine? Jelousy, bitterness is born.
    Its all about the currency man.
    Polish the mirror and destroy the false idols in your hearts (people with cash and nice clothes) realize that in this world u Deserve NADA – you either take or are given stuff. Dont make it sound like you deserved anything for being so good or disciplined (even the traits /experieces that enabled that, you recieved). Or If u do, also tell the mongoloid he deserved being retarded and ugly and pussyless.
    Seek first the kingdom of God and all the other things will be given unto you also. Amen? Amen.

  34. It’s astonishing to me when people reject solid advice. I have learned some hard lessons in life and made my share of mistakes, but one thing I never did, reject good advice. I have seen this countless times. I give someone advice and they deflate like a balloon. Because, “oh fuck, that means I have to change and grow and… ugh that’s gonna take some focus, hard work and discipline. Why can’t I just stay the way I am, bitch and moan and hopefully someone will throw me a bone.” Some advice is simple, some take work and some require thought.
    Simple one from my high school freshman football coach, “when you hang out with shit, you stink.” Still using it til this day.

  35. Suggestion to all readers: Make a “T” list. – on the left side people who are not of value to your life, or have you hooked and blinded. This can include family members, the buddy who “acts” alpha but just puts people down to seem cool in front of the world, Kling-on sluts, depressing cyclical auto-bots // on the right side, people who you work well with, are good to their word, have helped you and you have helped, who make you feel good when good feelings are deserved. —- THEN, immediately, as soon as your list is complete, start abruptly cutting time, concern, and efforts to the suppressors on the left, and at your leisure or with intent, spend a bit more time getting involved with those on the right.
    Make the list short, no more than 6-10 people on both sides combined. I can promise you, you will see your life improve dramatically within 6-8 months. I’ve done this 2, going on 3 times in my life, and the first time I did it, the opportunities I turned away, were better than most people could hope for occurring at my age.

  36. Oh, and Roy Rogers is riding tonight
    Returning to our silver screens
    Comic book characters never grow old
    Evergreen heroes whose stories were told…

  37. “Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.” Matthew 7:6

    1. Another good one for the losers is; they project. Cannot accept criticism. Project project project. They cope with hardships using defense mechanisms and they never grow. Successful people accept criticism even if they don’t like the source.

  38. About that excuse pointed out in sign no. 5 about “The Man is keeping me down”. I’d counter that the Man is (trying) to keep everybody down, but some people still manage to stand tall.
    A lot of immigrants I know went through way worse stuff that any of those losers did or probably ever will, they worked hard for what they had, they faced prejudice and discrimination and still managed to live a decent life. They didn’t come here expecting any handouts.
    Most Westerners are like spoiled children. When you look at people who started out in life with way less than what we have and still managed to be successful, the welfare bums and other assorted losers have no excuse.

    1. Exactly. The first time I traveled overseas it really changed my attitude about being an American. I knew I couldn’t make excuses any more.

    1. I think you’re actually on to something. Liberalism and social justice pushes and “victimhood” mentality, which when I think about it is basically the same!
      The “it’s not my fault!” life.

      1. The “no matter how bad my choices are, there will always be a governement there to take money from hard-working people and give it to me, especially if I’m a single mom” life.

  39. There’s a time and place for charity; but as a rule, never spend time, money, or energy on someone who can’t do anything for you.

  40. none of this factors in circumstance…..if i told you just how many nasty evil things people have done to set me back you wouldn’t believe me..i own everything i have bought with cash, my house my car..my stuff.. i’ve always had my shit together but seeing my situation you’d pre-judge and figure me irresponsible..add severe stress into the mix..
    ..over time i realized..it has a lot to do with being really good looking and being intelligent and talented..i guess i’m a threat to people without trying… and peoples insecurities being launched at me in full force..try dealing with that everywhere you go on a daily basis….
    the worst part is i’m a very friendly humble person, and would do anything to help my friends which i dont have..

    1. I understand that in life setbacks do happen. Trust me, I have not had such an easy life.
      And I understand at times that it feels that way.
      Howver, despite circumstances, we are men, and we eventually have to face the path we want to take: to take control (within the limits of what we can do) of our circumstances or simply allow the wind to carry us where it will, so to speak.
      Knowing that people who started with far less than me, or faced even harder circumstances and succeeded despite them, tells me that ultimately the responsibility lies on my own shoulders.

  41. When I see a beautiful upper tier gal with a guy, the couple is tempting to chat up. Do I try to find fault with the guy? . . well not really. Beautiful women like all others will eventually shrivel up like raisins. He’s enjoying her in her prime. Good for him.
    The challenge is to work the convo to see if he intends to dog out some offspring from her pedigree ass. Fat baconator women are out there re-foresting the western landscape as best their slow greasy asses can perform . . but the hoardes keep pounding across the borders.
    So where does that leave the hot piece of ass walking around with some guy like a collected trophy? A trophy is something that sits and collects dust. A top tier hot bitch mustn’t forget she has a higher purpose than enjoying her youth. The decades will accure and striving to maintain her doll-like collagen and keeping her wrinkles and liver spots from claiming her topology like an encroaching swamp will consume her. THERE’S HIGHER PURPOSE than that ya know?
    I’m Mcgoo and I say beautiful women become DOUBLE hot and beautiful when they tap those heels to the beat of duty and tribe. That’s right . . .
    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/20/1408534365861_wps_17_Breastfeeding.jpg
    YEEAH shoring another one up for the west. Keep those MAMS-a-JAMMIN’. . Trump 2016.

    1. Damn, McGoo, that pic you shared sums up perfectly the ultimate purpose behind everything we do! She is the perfect wife and mother!

  42. “They have almost nothing, and yet at times have the desire to have women who are attracted to men who are more successful.”
    -> Once upon a time a guy told m: “If only i could find my dream girl, all would be good because she would take care of me”. …I almost fell off my bar chair.
    “losers cannot be counted on. Ever.”
    -> Not true. You can count on them 100% of the time. They will not help you but instead rofl that you dumbass who angered them over and over again with your smartass advice…..is now in deep shit, where they always wanted to see you in the first place. Dont be surprised if they fuck your girlfriend the moment you turn your back too. Or steal from you. Or badmouth you. Or or or – in short if you are a man with options, these are not your friends – these are your mortal enemies. The sooner you get this under your skull the better.

      1. The moment I finally realized that I was being used, I took the initiative to educate and make people learn how to do for themselves. This is the only way that I could move up, and achieve financial sovereignty.

        1. Yes, and attempting to give people the opportunity to help themselves (rather than rely on you to bail them out) also serves as an extremely efficient test to see if they really want to fix themselves or want everything for free.
          If they’re true losers, they’ll hee and haw about why they can’t do make changes or learn to do something with themselves.

        2. All you have to do is make a deal with them, in exchange for a couple of women, and you will quickly find out whether or not, they are real losers. Because winners are people with a lot of desperation in them.

  43. The opening section that regards the rough start aspect of loserdom is well-put. People get the heart knocked out of him. “What you are is lowly”, as the song goes…. The author may find the extensive studies on self-regulation (canonical experiment, google “the marsh mellow test”) to be useful. I find it explains the common node of those who inexplicably cannot succeed. It is this. That man does not say no to himself. (This would even apply in socializing because much of socializing is self-restraint, which can mean restraining the impulse to sit mute like a flower pot.) The long term follow up studies on self-regulation showed significant differences in outcomes between those who say no and those who ignore it. As a fellow who is back on track after a very long time off the circuit, I can say as a recovering “loser” that the whole lifestyle is cloistered by one’s own head’s fantasies of what life is and how things are unfolding. It’s untrue, and, sadly, the only cure for a loser is an aggressive coach or father figure, one who turns the screws and does what a real father ought to have done (or do, in the case of emergent set-backs for his son). Life can be confusing and traumatizing, so I can’t say that we are looking to blame anyone for misfortune. As the saying goes, however, part of being a man is “manning up” in the face of adversity, which is another way to say, rising above and overcoming the condemnation to lose forevermore.

    1. I think you make a lot of good points. I’m not without a great deal of mistakes that I’ve made, but definitely I had to say to myself, “This isn’t working. I need to change” or “I can’t succeed unless I’m willing to do what it takes.”
      I heard it said how you can look at people and even though many years go by, they’re basically the same and in the same place they were years ago. So true, and very sad.

  44. This is probably one of the top ten “must read” articles for young men who peruse this site. These lessons/warning signs will save you a lot of grief – learn them early!

    1. Definitely I would hope it would save some guys a lot of grief, money, and wasted concern.
      And not least of all to not have to go through expecting assistance from a “friend” in an emergency who turns out to be one of the types I wrote about.
      We have to teach young men the realities of people they’ll interact with in the real world, and that some supposed allies/friends/family will only serve to bring them down and are best avoided.

  45. This election season has given us many new clues. for instance, men who say things like…
    “I really do not like Trump, but I will vote for him because Hillary is more detestable.”
    Hyper resistance to red pills is a recognized disorder. If left untreated it leads to effeminate behavior or castration, and a secret longing for a femdom mistress.

    1. “I really do not like Trump, but I will vote for him because Hillary is more detestable.”
      All right, young man, please explain to the class why someone who says something so perfectly rational is a “loser.”
      And take off that dopey MAGA cap while you’re at it. Seriously this whole “you’re not a manly man unless you suck Trump’s cock” meme is really out of hand.

      1. because it is loser mentality.
        the only reason anyone believes they do not like Trump, is because they have imbibed lefty and Neocon propaganda about the man.
        they could not refute his polices or rhetoric, they tried and failed
        so the smeared him instead
        it is not as if we have not seen this emotional manipulation before
        that it would work with women, particularly those infected with feminism, is not surprising
        that any man would buy it is pathetic

  46. The topic of this article is one that I was glad to see. Information about “looser” types, or those with personality disorders, is not widely known as patterns of behaviors that can be spotted and avoided if one knows what to look for. How to recognize someone who has a personality disorder, a.k.a. a ‘looser’, is not taught in schools. It should be. Everyone needs to know about these types and the patterns of their behaviors in order to avoid them and the inevitable destruction they bring to any person with whom they interact. Selfishness, irresponsibility, a sense of entitlement, no regard for the rights or feelings of others, and no remorse for their actions. They suck the resources of everyone around them and never give anything in return. It is always someone else’s fault and you should feel sorry for them. It seems like the number of these types is growing steadily among the general population. It is as if a virus has been unleashed that destroys the conscience of those susceptible to it. How to recover from this virus
    and emerge with a sense of personal responsibility is unknown.

    1. Excellent comment. Honestly, one should not even get near someone they suspect to be “off.” Just associating with them opens the door to them latching on (or attempting, anyway) and try to start their sh*t with you, too.
      I agree that there appear to be more and more young people with personality/emotional problems. Not surprising considering how many homes & families are in disarray, along with a lack of healthy structure and guidance in their lives.

  47. While some guys like myself make stupid choices in life early on, perseverance can overcome these mistakes.
    Yes, it takes longer, sometimes much longer, to catch up than someone who didn’t make the poor decisions but once you start making better decisions they build momentum and even though it took me well into my 40s to recover I live a life now that I only dreamed of before.
    Never give up! It’s the struggles and how you handle them that make you a man.

  48. Yup I learned early on not to help out anyone with giving or loaning them money
    somehow when I needed help they are “broke”.

    1. VERY true. It is pathetic and enraging to see how quickly the excuses come when you ask them for a bit of help.

  49. A real loser wouldn’t have “slightly” dysfunctional behaviour but rather would tend to have dysfunctional behaviour in general. A loser generally has poor relationships with other people and would tend to treat people in a bad manner. Apart from showing a geniune lack of concern and interest for other people, they will treat people inappropriately e.g. talk rudely, use foul language, make demands when they need something e.g. “You got $2 dollars?”, and intrude in personal spaces etc. More extreme losers will be the ones that bully and harass people, whether it is physical or psychological. They may justify their actions or admit they want to change and don’t follow up with it.

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