We get a lot of hate from the fairer sex, particularly feminists. On the surface, this seems a little odd. After all, what exactly are we trying to do here?
We’re hoping to facilitate the improvement of men by giving them a forum to share and to acquire knowledge about how to improve themselves socially, economically, and romantically. We try to give men new ways to improve their style, their finances, their health, their physique and, above all, their ability to appeal to women.
Sounds great, no? We’re helping to create wealthier, healthier, better looking, more attractive men. Isn’t that what women want-more polished, appealing, high quality guys? Why, then, do so many women express a seemingly inherent and irrational hostility to many sites like this?
They do this because the very act of teaching someone to better approach women is considered “creepy,” regardless of the results.
Women want effortless attraction. They want a guy who is very attractive to them without any evidence that he’s putting much effort into being that way. They very much value the romanticism of the “it just happened” kind of meeting, the idea that the guy was just there being himself and he was just right and he just happened to want her.
This is why media designed to appeal to women doesn’t feature male leads who seem to consciously plan to meet the female characters. Romance/adult novels (read: chick porn) feature extremely attractive men who, more often than not, are just kind of there. There is no attempt to show the development of these men into the very attractive specimens they become, or the mistakes they make in growing and getting there. They just are.
The “Disney Princess” movie model also reads this way, and does much to shape the perception of young women as they grow. The Prince does not game the Princess—he’s just there, he’s naturally charming, and he wants her. She has no idea how he became a prince or what he goes through to keep that title and maintain his authority, and that stuff rarely features in the story. He’s just there, he’s perfect for her the way he is and he can’t help but be drawn in by her. The End.
In female fantasy, the ideal male just is. She could care less about the effort it takes for that man to become what he is, as long as he just is.
The fact that many guys put in an effort to build that attraction and become that better man kills the ideal of organic attraction that most women want to maintain. The fact that something like “game” exists at all is even more damaging because it implies that there are some concrete formulas and methods that produce better results than others, killing the notion of “magical love” that they’d much prefer to cling to.
In the end, this all comes down to feelings. Women “feel” uncomfortable with inorganic models of sexual attraction. Game promotes an inorganic model of attraction by telling them that there is a formula that can increase a man’s appeal and that a woman can be drawn more reliably with practice and perfection of this formula. Therefore, game makes women feel uncomfortable.
“Creepy” is the catch-all label used by women for that which makes them feel uncomfortable. Hence, game is creepy.
Women also do not like the idea of losing control. Girls want the ability to choose winners and losers in the sexual marketplace—this uncontested place in the mating game’s driver’s seat is, in their mind, their natural prerogative and right.
When those winners (alpha males and guys who are just generally successful with women) and losers (dudes who don’t see much sexual success) start gathering on sites likes this in numbers and begin discussing and actually codifying how to do things, they begin to undermine that power women would like to keep.
It also becomes harder to tell which guys fit the “effortless attraction” model they idealize and spend most of their youth dreaming about and which guys merely look the part after a lot of effort. Girls would, generally, prefer to be able to make this distinction themselves, separating the more organic “naturals” from the others who had to work at it or are merely putting on a well practiced cover for weaknesses in their game that girls would otherwise readily see.
With “game” and the advice offered on sites like these that encourage male improvement, men take some of this ability and choice away from them.
To men, this may not seem like a bad thing since men are merely trying to give women more of what they want. That seems only logical to us.
The problem is that women do not want men making this decision and taking things out of their hands. This is a threat to the feminine imperative and a challenge to the romanticized organic model I described above, so women subconsciously shy away from it.
The feminine imperative calls for control over the direction of the sexual marketplace, and male cooperation and focused effort to improve their standing in said marketplace does nothing to help this aim. That merely shows the female hand and facilitates the rise of the more inorganic sexual marketplace females do not really want.
The standard response, therefore, is to shame those who participate in those discussions. The term “creepy” is a good way to do that, and it fits since the whole idea makes women uncomfortable as well (creepy = “I don’t like the feeling he/it gives me”). This also makes rational discussion with female opponents (feminists especially) very difficult.
Of course, this feminine imperative creates a dilemma for men who try to abide by it. If they put in effort and that effort is seen, that’s creepy. If they don’t put in effort and they’re not naturals (very few men are), they are still creepy. Lose-lose.
This isn’t a good place for men to be, but women generally don’t care. They simply can’t, and we’ll be wasting our time expecting them to do so.
Don’t Miss: Effortless Attraction
Creep and creepy are so overused nowadays guys don’t give a shit about being called that anymore. We’re desensitized now.
A girl tried telling my friend one time that she thought I was creepy when she first met me. He laughed in her face when she tried to explain what I did and told her that it was EXACTLY what he had just done. Women are dumb, and thanks to facebook everyone is a creep.
The most common definition of creep : Guy i don’t like did X.
@william, perfect succinct dead on definition of creepy
All it means is a guy they didn’t find attractive enough said or did anything. That’s it, that’s all.
A con-woman’s #1 fear is getting conned herself.
Fear = creepy
Excellent points and well-written. It’s indeed threatening. It’s true: the mere act of wanting to learn game reveals that one must not have possessed it naturally in the first place, that it isn’t innate.
Now carrying this one step further… if game isn’t or wasn’t innate, then it means all those good qualities that game appears to signal (leadership of men, protector of loved ones, etc.) are not enduring. Those qualities are not in one’s DNA. If a woman were sleep with you as a result of your “learned” game, all those positive qualities wouldn’t be genetically passed along. Hence, her fear of learned, i.e., creepy type of game.
Not naturally possessing game but instead learning it consciously (creepily), is viewed by women in the same way that school administers might view cheating on an exam: Yea, you might have technically received an “A” on that exam, but it’s not a “true” A. You don’t truly know the material.
You make a good point on why females would prefer natural game over learned game – the same positive qualities would be more likely to be passed on to her offspring.
An even better analogy to that argument: a guy with learned game is similar to a women who was born ugly, but has had such great plastic surgery and facial reconstruction that she looks like a natural beauty. Even if the procedures turned out so well you can’t tell that anything was every done, as soon as you have children, the man will find out. Clearly, a man would prefer a woman with true natural beauty that will get passed on through his bloodline.
However, I’d argue that it’s more beneficial to possess (and pass on to your offspring) the drive and motivation to better yourself and achieve greatness than it is to be a natural at aspects like leadership and charisma. With that motivation to get shit done and the guts to confront your fears, you have the ability to accomplish much more than just a few adjustments to your personality or outlook on life.
So once again, if women were logical about this situation they wouldn’t be “creeped out” by guys who learn game and work to better themselves.
Your comment brought this to mind.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223718/Chinese-man-sues-wife-ugly-court-AGREES–awarding-120-000.html#axzz2KEorp7jx
If you can learn game, learn business and be successful then you have drive and drive will carry where talent can’t. Drive is adaptive, talent is specific. Drive is just as important as talent. Ask any of the thousands almost-made-pro ahtletes who were once great young talens, but now only have the stories to tell. Adaptability to change is the essence of Darwinistic success.
Women’s primary biological concern is to screen good catches from bad. So much is at stake for her evolutionarily in mate choice. Game screws this screening process up and is a tremendous biological threat to her.
I’d argue that most men naturally possess what is considered game…but society beats it out of them in order to continue the feminine imperative.
What constitutes “good game” is situational. In most of history, and geography, what passes for “good game” in our current dystopia, would lead to ostracizion or to getting killed. Facility with approaching every woman in sight, with at best thinly camouflaged sexual intent, simply isn’t a trait selected for in cultures with staying power. And neither is being a tall talking blowhard. Yet both traits are highly correlated with good game today.
Looking at things over a more realistic time period, I’d guess what is good game, is that which is practiced by Afghan tribesmen, whatever that is. Seemingly a combination of keeping ones head low and don’t be a threat or burden, and ruthlessly and unquestionably killing all those that don’t follow that advice; or some such.
I agree. I think though that the represion of natural alpha comes from women in your family. My mother resented my fathers dominance. Between her and my older sister they tried to train me to be a good boy and serve their needs. We are a broken family.
I can totally see that.
When I was growing up there was a lot of shit I was told or that was implied or I was led to believe, that come to find out… were really off the mark.
I believe in women’s right as far as politics go… and i don’t think a woman (or anyone, really) should have the gov’t in her personal business. That being said, feminism has been massively skewed and it fucked things up. Not just for you guys.
No. That’s like saying because a child learns to walk, or learns to read, he won’t be able to have offspring who can walk or read either.
Uh…?! Not really…. What the…?! That’s not a good analogy.
Learning limits or pace is a trait for an individual and will have an affect on their offspring. Being able to read is just a small by product of that trait.
“Game” is an exaggeration, or an untrue characteristic.
So as a intellectual analogy. If a person portrayed themselves as being clever perhaps from having qualifications, but had really struggled to achieve it. They would not necessarily have clever kids.
The struggle in itself is an achievement, and one the kids could likely possess, but is that nature or necessity…?
You nailed the point!
I was thinking the same while reading the article.
In the very end the reason why women want an “alpha male” is to get top class genes to pass to their progeny!
Learning game allows men to present themselves as alpha even when they do not posses “alpha genes”, hence women needs to shame the men that learned seduction in order to screen the real alphas for the “fake” ones…
Re-quoted from the top of Obsidian’s blog this morning:
“Anyone who can conceive, can be deceived.”
– David Buss
Kind of applies to this post here too.
[For those who don’t know David Buss, he’s one of the most respected evolutionary psychologists, now teaching at the University of Texas. He studies game in its academic terms.]
This one reason why game is hardest and least effective when you’re first starting: That’s when the effort is most apparent.
I want to add that not only do they lose their power in the marketplace because we are “tricking” them, by making zeroes look like heroes…
But also, this whole thing makes it more difficult for them to trick US!
Men are the real romantics, and when we peek behind the curtain and see what’s really there, it becomes harder for them to pull our heartstrings, manipulate, and otherwise extract resources. Of course they have to try to shame it/stop it.
No need to expect that they would understand about men teaching men how to be better men. Single moms don’t have a damned clue about teaching MEN, and don’t even realize that there is a process a boy must go through to grow up right. Maybe because they never got the process girls need from older women to help them grow up right. It’s like they have no conception about older generations teaching the younger generations simple wisdoms and strength of character.
because they’ve never seen it.
MEN know.
It also messes with snowflake theory. She can’t convince herself as easily that she’s the wise and precious princess when she’s just been suckered by a “system”. Not only that, it’s a system that even dweeby guys can learn.
The proud protector of her friends in the club is actually just another category: the Mother Hen. Her supposedly unique speech on why she doesn’t just feel it is an acronym: LJBF. Her requests that she subconsciously simultaneously hopes you pass and hopes you fail is a shit-test, a quantifiable demonstration of a pattern followed by EVERY female. Slut-defense. Last-minute resistance. All these phenomena that she think are unique to her specialness and priviledge are actually just patterns. The more she learns about game, the less she feels like a snowflake and the more she thinks of herself as a rat in a maze.
On some level, surrendering this sense of specialness to some dude who every chick ignored in high school has gotta hurt.
This is brilliant.
I think you hit the nail on the head. one of the biggest aspects of learning game is experience. experience means interacting with, dating, and fucking a large quantity of women. this quantity of women and experience allows you to assess value much more critically than a guy who is innately gifted with good genetics and traditional good looks. women want the perfect guy, but they don’t want him to know he’s perfect, or that she is imperfect. they don’t want to be compared to the 50, 100, or even 1000’s of other women the guy has had, because they don’t like how they will measure up. it makes them insecure, because they know they can be replaced; and an experienced man knows just how easily she can be replaced, and whether or not the next one will likely be better, worse, or the same. they want high quality men, but they don’t want to put any work into themselves to be worthy of a high quality man. they want a man who is completely clueless and inexperienced, so he will always think she is a goddess, when she is really nothing special.
Game wouldn’t necessarily need to be taught…if men weren’t brainwashed by feminist media and schools in the first place.
Most guys know naturally what women respond to…but you grow up in a culture of single motherdome, rom-coms, getting in touch with your female side, and your local feminist hag opining in the newspaper about how to get women and suddenly you have no clue what works.
You think in the early 1900s guys needed to consciously know that being a confident leader is what women wanted. Nope…they were just that way to begin with.
Go to Google images and do a search for Civil War generals. You will see a collection of the most alpha looking dudes ever: the steely stare, the body language, the arrogant sense of honor. It’s all there. Game is just rediscovering what previous centuries knew.
^ this
I need to get Sherman’s look down.
In some eras, even the relative betas were REAL MEN. Wimps were a rare and routinely mocked aberration.
True: Everything I needed to know about the world I learned in Kindergartern, and then it was beaten and shamed out of me by my clueless mother, male-hating media, stupid college feminists and passage-aggresive bitch former-girlfriends The 1990s really sucked, guys. I didn’t discover the game and the Red Pill until 2005.
Perceptive and intelligent article.
On balance, game has much more positives than negatives. The positives are:
1. Game gives men a plan of action, a code of conduct, and a sort-of “mission statement” in an era where male role models and rituals are constantly undermined and demeaned. Game helps empower men and give them the confidence to approach, seduce, and close the deal. Of course, there’s no master code that will unlock every woman, but game provides a true insight into gender differences and female psychology.
2. Game helps turn the tables and counteract the feminist claptrap spewed out constantly by the media. It is deeply subversive to the established femino-centric order.
3. Game can actually be viewed as a self-help movement. It helps men dress better, act better, think better, and interact better. It’s the finishing school that previous eras used to have…it is the “Knights Book of Chivalry” for the modern, alienated age.
4. Game has positive spinoff effects in a man’s job, intellectual development, and travel life.
The negative of game, as I’ve noticed over the years, is:
1. Game can cause men to overvalue women, and waste a lot of time chasing females who, in the final analysis, are not worth the effort.
But when all is said and done, game exists and has become popularized because it is called for by the tenor of the times. It would not exist if it were not necessary. As the author notes, the main reason why feminists hate sites like this is because they undermine the established false orthodoxy.
Well said sir!
Feminist ideas are everywhere nowadays… (Jezebel as one example).. And I can’t STAND it. So it’s always refreshing to come on here or Roosh V. I always look forward to reading Rooshs posts and other mens articles on here. Thanks men for being who you are!
You can thank us by taking up the cause to overturn fucked laws that’re not only detrimental to men but civilization itself. In the mean time piss off, no one like a suck up.
Not sucking up, just showing my appreciation for what you men are doing. Simply put.
Uncalled for.
Thank you Ashley. It’s good to read that from a woman.
In Western society you’re idolized for being weak and the victim. The stronger and more powerful you grow, the more hate you receive.
This is very true
Not idolized but certainly loved more.
True power and independence is always hard won and it is not given to those who are not willing to fight for it. Feminism is a method of subjugating men who agree(as well as those that do not agree) to it’s ideology. This is a great article, because it points out the fact that it is always better to do what YOU want to do to improve yourself, things that women will kick and scream at you for doing and the result is that they love you for doing so because they can’t control you, they can’t keep you from increasing your value and understanding. This is how they are threatened. And how they relish a man who is threatening. You can’t help but take their feelings with a grain of salt they’re feelings change all the time. So who cares?
Brilliant analysis.
The way to break it down is by considering it in terms of “Mating Strategy” as part of a greater “Reproductive Strategy”.
After all, women have been fighting for Reproductive Rights. A right is a freedom which we are able to exercise, within the limits imposed by our society and culture. With Reproductive Rights and Reproductive Freedom comes . . . the right and freedom to plot a Reproductive Strategy.
Now, if your Reproductive Strategy includes not having babies, then it devolves into a simple Mating Strategy, and you chase poon to your heart’s content. Remaining childless with no intention of marriage — why should you? — is a perfectly reasonable goal of a Reproductive Strategy for a dude (or a chick, for that matter). In which case Game serves you as the device by which you are pursuing your Mating Strategy.
If your Reproductive Strategy involves having children with a well-selected and thoroughly-vetted female which you can develop a level of trust and sustainable attraction to sufficient to invest in said female, then Game serves as the means by which you can institute your exclusionary criteria. Your Mating Strategy, therefore, is dependent upon that ultimate goal of stable fatherhood. But the process leading up to that selection strongly resembles the usual dating/hookup process that a man using the non-Reproductive Strategy does. Game allows you, through observation, discussion and experience, to separate the unacceptably slutty from the potential future mother of your children.
Therefore Game is ideal for men to study regardless of their individual Reproductive/Mating Strategy . . . which is why, as Mr. McGinnis rightly points out, feminist hate it and women find it creepy. Game is a mating strategy . . . but so is True Love. The difference is one of approach, not destination. And when you can’t tell the Alphas from the Betas from the Deltas from the Sigmas (Gammas, Omegas and Lamdas tend to stick out) in a crowded bar, that removes the ability for them to easily select and sort the potential suitors.
And they HATE that. If you look like a billionaire, by goddess, you should BE a billionaire! If you act all mysterious about where you live with a cocky grin, then you should be concealing your mansion from her, not your crappy studio apartment. If you’re wearing great shoes and act like you’re a movie star, you’d better not be a waiter whose uncle owns a consignment shop!
(A dedicated PUA friend of mine, who is actually looking for a wife now, made it a practice for years not to reveal ANY personal information about himself to a woman until he saw her tits. That provided the dual pleasure of making ambitious climbers squirm and raising a huge amount of intrigue. He’d spin the hamster wheel until it broke. He got turned down a lot . . . but he saw a lot of tits, too.)
I go on about this at length in this post: http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/2012/10/game-is-mating-strategy-so-is-twu-wuv.html, and cover it elsewhere on the blog, too. But the essential take-away here should be that Game is the art and science of giving women exactly what they want (but not what they say they want) . . . good and hard.
So go give it to them, Gentlemen.
+1
Girl #1 – hottest girl I’ve seen on this blog yet. Good work.
Another reason that women hate game is that it robs them of their plan B option, should they not be able to marry the man of their dreams (and few women are). Sure, she wants to marry Mr. Big, Prince Charming, the guy all the other girls want too. But if she can’t get him for whatever reason, she can always find a “nice guy” at 28 who’s been stuck in the sexual desert since puberty and will feel lucky as hell for a chance to finally get some action from a non-obese woman, and he’ll even incur the risks of marriage 2.0 to get it.
But when those “nice guys” figure out how to get laid without having to wife up former carousel riders, then that plan B falls apart. Women want the best of both worlds — the sexual adventures with the frat boys in their prime, and the nice guy husband to give her the Cinderella wedding when she’s done with the frat boys. But if all the “nice guys” become like the frat boys, and are able to sate their sexual appetites… then who’s going to wife her up once she’s decided that she’s had enough pony rides?
There was an article I read a few years ago, maybe in Harper’s or The Atlantic Monthly, on men who finally, successfully,wore-down the girl of thier dreams and “got them.” They just “hung in there” for YEARS until she finally got off her cock carousel, or divorced, or was dumped, or developed some std disease (I kid you not) and then these Betas swooped in and claimed her. It was amazing. It reminded me of an episode in the mid 1990s on Oprah, where she had these beautiful women on her show who were HIV positve, open about it, and still had men begging to be in relationships with them. Educated yet emotionally beaten men who were too happy just to be in a relationship with a woman, they didn’t even care that she had AIDS and could infect them. Sadly, back then I was a beta as well, and I was partially sympathetic.
A quote from one of my favorite dance partners regarding the protagonist of the quasi-autobiographical tale
She remarked “This woman thinks only with what is between her legs!”
The problem critics have with this site is that it points out how many women do. None the feral females want to believe that remark applies to them.
Must have misplaced a quote or close tag. The book I intended to reference is “Kiss and Tango” (Marina Palmer, 2005). The link above goes there.
Women want to be able to filter men without having to deal with “fake confidence” or a beta in camoflauge.
Their fear is rooted in giving away their eggs to a fasle alpha. Wasting their reproductive chance at securing high value genes.
Not unlike themselves wearing make-up, high-heels, etc,… to fool men into thinking they are more attractive than they really are.
You may be right in all of the above, but you’re forgetting that the main reason why some women might hate the whole game situation is the hate towards women that it comes from, and the hate it reveals, just because all women are treated the same, i.e. as mean, manipulative whores. Also because game, as anything, depends on who’s using it, and some guys seem to misunderstand and misuse a lot of its concepts.
I don’t know why you’d choose not to see that, I don’t think women in general have an issue with anyone, man or woman, trying to be a better person, and make it in whatever they choose to.
I disagree. Game does not assume that all women are mean, manipulative whores — far from it. In fact, Game allows a man to help distinguish between the mean, manipulative whores and the decent women who might be worthy of further consideration.
Game arises not out of a place of hate, but out of a place of cynicism and pragmatism. Oh, there’s plenty of frustration fueling it, too, but the idea that Game is an expression of hate is misguided and incorrect. The goal of the Red Pill is not to be a dickhead to every woman you meet, the goal is to use the observable realities of the sexual marketplace to further your mating strategy.
Game is power, no doubt. It takes power away from women, because it relies on their reflexive responses to verbal and non-verbal cues. It uses the realities of the female social matrix and the insecurities of women and exploits them for a specific end. It gives men awareness of female psychological vulnerabilities and the tools to use them as leverage in the course of seduction.
More or less the same way a tight sweater, short skirt, and heels do for women.
And that is, indeed, why women in general and feminists in particular dislike Game. It isn’t because it comes from a place of hate. It’s because it’s empowering men at the expense of women’s control of the sexual equation, it’s muddying the waters of the marketplace, and it’s denying the fundamental female paradigm that even die-hard feminists can’t abandon: true love.
I agree, and your answer gives me hope.
Just to clarify, I was talking about some of the men who use game, whose hate is evident (which in my opinion comes from fear of rejection), that’s why I mentioned that like anything it can be misunderstoof and misused in the wrong hands. Everything in life needs a bit of brain too, and unfortunately not everyone comes with it.
I’m sorry but I didn’t understand your take on true love, if you don’t mind explaining it a bit more. You’re denying there can be true love?
Here’s my take on True Love.
http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/2012/10/game-is-mating-strategy-so-is-twu-wuv.html
And this is what Happily Ever After looks like:
http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-real-happily-ever-after.html
Many men have every reason to hate women. And yes, it is partly a fear of rejection — that’s a PRIMAL male fear. Dismissing it lightly is like trying to dismiss a woman’s concern about her appearance. Men who discover Game may indeed learn it and use it to pump-and-dump one gullible woman after another . . . and that’s Okay.
You see, there are no “wrong hands”. As long as issues of consent are observed religiously, there’s no reason at all why a dude shouldn’t Game his way into every pair of panties in the room, if he’s capable. And every woman who successfully falls for his Game reveals herself. As does every woman who resists successfully. Sure, he leaves a trail of emotionally battered, confused, and self-doubting women behind him who “fell” for his Game and were found unworthy, but is that any less heinous than a pretty woman who leaves a trail of rejected suitors behind her?
Game is a powerful tool for men. It’s like having superpowers. I’m not going to make a moral judgement about how the men who learn it use it, any more than Gloria Steinem would insist that women only use their boobs for Good. It’s an effective tool to promote a male mating strategy, and it’s also a tool of masculine empowerment.
Very well-written comment Ian. Consider writing some ROK articles if you haven’t already.
“(which in my opinion comes from fear of rejection)”
Projection. It is clear you are worried that you and your sisters will be found wanting by better, game-aware men.
Instead of trying to dictate mens’ thoughts and feelings, focus on improving yourself. Be the best woman you can be.
@F-LTD: I’m not trying to dictate anything, and it’s common knoweldge that some men might have a fear of rejection. Ian even called it primal.
And of course I have it too, the only difference is I’m not trying to mask it by gaming people, I’d say it’s kind of evident and I’ve learned to live with it! I guess some people are more sensitive than others, if you don’t have it all I got to say is I envy you, I’m sure it works out better for you!
Yeah I remember when I first started reading Psychology, “Projection” was my first smartass response I’d use on anyone that said anything that annoyed me.
“manipulative whores”
Can you find any better word to describe women in our society? There are a few born-again Christians, a few reactionary conservatives, a few Muslims, and a mass of modern 18-29 year old women who love to fuck guys just for the fun of it. “Whore” is too generous, at least whores demand a little money.
You’ve perfectly captured the social stigma’s surrounding game, but of course, none of it is true.
Kinda reminds me of the hysteria Americans had towards weed a decade ago.
@Ian: Sure, he leaves a trail of emotionally battered, confused, and self-doubting women behind him who “fell” for his Game and were found unworthy.
To me it’s sad that you’d see that as a “sure, why not?” situation. I wouldn’t call these women “unworthy” maybe too sensitive or clueless.
So I got to disagree on that. But I have to admit that the post on HAE was really moving.
This was a terrific piece, thank you.
It’s easy for some men to get angry at women because of their failures in logic.
What men fail to do is try to see it from the female standpoint. (This also predictably results in game mistakes.) This piece laid it out perfectly.
I would only add that when it’s the WOMAN who’s setting out on her imperative, she also doesn’t want to think of it as deliberate. I.e., she didn’t go out to meet guys or get banged. She went out to have fun and things just happened. Etc.
Read The Great Gatsby.
ultimately, Gatsby comes off as try hard/creepy b/c he has done through all the trials and tribulations to achieve Daisy….ultimately she goes with Tom, the man of inherited wealthy, physicality, and a serial philanderer.
Athlone – an extremely well put and penetrating analysis. One for the book of wisdom.
haters gonna hate
back in my parents day the thought of a boy walkin by your place wasnt creepy in fact girls would get excited that”ooo he like me”…now naything u do is creepy
even the thought of planning to make an approach happen was considered cute not creepy(think some bollywood films)
Very insightful, thank you Athlone.
Eventually, you will come to realize that what women want, is the complete removal of all men from the planet and the warehousing of sperm. When this becomes clear, so too will the required male response.
Yeah, but when the power goes out, who’s gonna go underground during the storm and get it running again?
There are no feminists when the storm hits. Watch New England this weekend and see how many “we don’t need men” editorials are written when they’re under two feet of snow.
Someone ought do a study tracking now anti-male editorials disappear when reports of natural disasters start up.
Co-sign 100% Most cogent and thought-provoking column on ROK.
What Adam in the first comment.
Creepy=she’s not attracted to you.
I’m a woman. I wouldn’t call it creepy but I’d call it delusional. I’ve seen comments referring to game as a superior way to understand women. To conquer women by having sex with them. The younger and prettier the better. Which those aren’t quotes, but that’s the overall theme I’m understanding here.
I get that it feels that way when they fall for your game and you’ve had sex with them.
It’s absolutely delusional to think that’s any sign of understanding women, conquering her, or anything remotely close to the fantasy achievement in your head.
So you fucked an idiot. You fucked a hot drunk idiot. Sooo.. that’s it? Allll of this- is for that?!
That’s something else!
She’ll eventually learn the lesson taught here (hopefully by the time she’s 25… some girls are quicker than others) she will figure it out and decide to have enough self respect to stop fucking dudes while she’s wasted. Or stop fucking dudes she doesn’t really know that well. She’ll be on her way. Great. Ok.
So then what about you guys? You keep playing your game. One girl after another. But you’re gonna get old. The game will eventually become a habit. You’ll hit a point where not one woman who will give your old ass the time of day is dumb enough to fall for this, and you don’t have enough money for the young girls you used to pull every weekend “back in the day”… and if you do have enough money, then hey! that’s awesome for you.
It’s not creepy. It’s just sad.
The chicks you guys pull with game are just a few more shitty guys away from wising up. What are all of you going to do when that happens and you’re too old to pull this stuff?
I wish I could have written this comment myself. This is exactly how it is. And it’s especially sad for all those kids around 20 years old who have never been in a relationship: it seems like they will never expect to be in one, or expect to be screwed over and cheated if they ever get in one, or just give up altogether even before they have experienced for themselves what it can be like when it’s good.
I appreciate all the knowledge that game can provide to both men and women about relationships, but people should be really careful about how they apply it all in real life. What if you miss out on a good girl just because you expect her to be cheating or manipulative? On the other hand if any of you guys are not interested in any sort of connection with a woman and are just interested in having as much sex as possible till you reach an age when it stops, then yes I guess this is the way to go.
And last, I have to mention the differences in character, personality and sensitivity that might exist between guys reading about game and guys writing about game. Maybe in some things the first are better or different, and more able to form relationships by having better intentions and more hopeful expectations. Maybe something that doesn’t work for guys writing about game will work for you, or the opposite. Or maybe you’re too different in too many aspects to expect to live an identical life and have the same results.
Other than that I personally appreciate and enjoy all the sites related to game, as long as they don’t create a mass of angry, depressed, hopeless and lonely people.
Just one word Theodora…projection.
Please don’t project your intentions and points of view into us.
I don’t see how websites like this that help improve your life lead to depressed people…
A lot of projection in your post, or basically as we say in the UK, what a load of bollocks.
“And it’s especially sad for all those kids around 20 years old who have never been in a relationship: it seems like they will never expect to be in one, or expect to be screwed over and cheated if they ever get in one, or just give up altogether even before they have experienced for themselves what it can be like when it’s good.”
Thank feminism for that. We’re just responding to it. And yeah, girls can expect to get pumped-and-dumped if they aren’t educated on the SMP. But then that’s what feminism is championing. Face it, most of these girls wont get husbands anyway, so it just helps set the precedent for their long line of lackluster serially monogamous relationships before they hit the Wall and realize that they aren’t likely to EVER find a man willing to commit to them. These tough, smart, strong and independent women don’t need men, remember?
So they don’t get them. They get pumped-and-dumped. If they wise up fast enough, they might get out before they’re too damaged, but mostly they just rationalize their poor decisions, “follow their hearts”, and do it all over again.
“What if you miss out on a good girl just because you expect her to be cheating or manipulative?”
We don’t expect that, Game just prepares us for the likely eventuality. Men who practice Game tend to have higher mating standards than the AFCs, so the “good girl” you are referring to probably just didn’t meet his selection criteria. It’s not a moral judgement, it’s just how it is. “He’s just not that into you”, and all.
“On the other hand if any of you guys are not interested in any sort of connection with a woman and are just interested in having as much sex as possible till you reach an age when it stops, then yes I guess this is the way to go.”
Precisely. Feminism has made “any sort of connection with a woman” a dangerous prospect for any man, and marriage is the worst of the potential dangers. For most men, it’s just a better deal to learn Game and have as much sex as possible than risking the coin flip that is American marriage. When feminism took the honor out of being a husband, it also took the incentive.
I don’t know how this reply thing works, but this goes out to Ian:
I hear you and I see your point. I’m not from the States and if that’s the way it is with feminism and women there, then yes I guess there’s no alternative–which I can only describe as sad, no matter whose fault it might be.
That’s why I think everytime I try to comment on something in any of these sites people start attacking and missing the point. I haven’t experienced what you’re talking about in this intensity, and any comments I make are not to take sides but to try and understand. But I seem to not be able to, because I come from a different background, or at least not able to make my point come across without hitting on some feminist stereotype that you guys might already have. So I’ll just leave it at that and wish us all good luck!
Women are the gatekeepers of sex. If it were for your hypocrite arguments and self-righteous tone, anyone would think the guys attempting to be better are dragging the women to their apartments and gangbanging them.
P.S. If most women were not sick and perverted (even more than the guys you are depicting as pathetic) , books like 50 Shades of Masochism wouldn’t be a sales success. Enjoy your delusions…
It’s 2013. (i almost put 2012!lol. dammit.)
Dude… women are not the gatekeepers of sex anymore!
And could seem to have a self-righteous tone… it was meant to be a defensive tone. Tone doesn’t translate well over the internet. =/
And I fail to see how my writing is hypocritical.
I don’t understand what’s so hard about asking a WOMAN how to be better. Wouldn’t that make more sense? I don’t mean these girls you’re trying to fuck of course. Lol. I mean like.. a female in your life who is honest with you and cares about you… go ask ’em what the deal is!
That’s a ridiculous statement. Women are and always have been the gatekeepers of sex. I would argue that in 2013 this is even more true than it has ever been, at least in Western nations where female sexual self-determination has become a societal right and expectation and male transgressions (no matter how minor) of it increasingly less tolerated.
It’s 2013. (i almost put 2012!lol. dammit.)
Dude… women are not the gatekeepers of sex anymore!
So, what’s rape again?
Hamster exploding in 3..2…1…
Of course they are. Women are the gatekeepers of sex…it’s just that are not only gatekeepers when it comes to sex.
Why is it so hard to understand this?
You’re living in a dream world, you women never wise up. You think you do, but then someone comes along and ‘games’ you.
Lol! If I was living in a dream world, I’d be in friggin costa rica or some shit. Not stuck inside with nothing better to do than THIS! =)
By all means, allow me to rebut:
“It’s absolutely delusional to think that’s any sign of understanding women, conquering her, or anything remotely close to the fantasy achievement in your head. So you fucked an idiot. You fucked a hot drunk idiot. Sooo.. that’s it? Allll of this- is for that?! That’s something else!”
Well, since Game is about fucking women — and understanding them enough to get to that point — then yes, I’d call it an unqualified success. Now consider how much time, energy and effort women go through to make themselves attractive WITHOUT any real goal but self-esteem – they aren’t even trying to get laid. I’ve seen my single female contemporaries spend hours and hours browsing magazines and websites for beauty tips, and they haven’t had sex in years. Sooo . . .that’s it? At least Game gets you laid. Cosmetics just make you poor.
“So then what about you guys? You keep playing your game. One girl after another. But you’re gonna get old. The game will eventually become a habit. You’ll hit a point where not one woman who will give your old ass the time of day is dumb enough to fall for this, and you don’t have enough money for the young girls you used to pull every weekend “back in the day”… and if you do have enough money, then hey! that’s awesome for you.”
Actually, you’re projecting. The fact of the matter is that men tend to get more sexually attractive (their Sex Rank goes up) with age regardless of other factors, while the reverse is true for women. Men don’t stop getting calls until they are in their 70s. Why? Because while the 25 year olds may not be subject to your Game, at 55 a dude can pull a 35-40 year old woman with barely an effort. Women are attracted to older men.
And then there is Married Game. Once you decide to leave the Puerarchy and get married, assuming you’ve managed to find and vet a worthy wife, then you can transfer all of those hard-won Game skills to your permanent relationship. See Married Man Sex Life Primer for details.
“The chicks you guys pull with game are just a few more shitty guys away from wising up. What are all of you going to do when that happens and you’re too old to pull this stuff?”
Hit on their younger sisters.
mista ian.
So in one writing you talk about game being used solely to fuck girls. Then you talk about marriage. whoa. mind-blown.
i’m gonna have to check that article.
I get there’s going to be a lot of back an forth but really… I don’t think it’s unreasonable for me to think that having a hate for women at the core of your motivation to get with a woman, not the best thing that ever were to happen on earth. Is that unfounded, to you?
Your conception of “game” is too narrow and in many ways wildly inaccurate.
There are many who claim to “practice” game that do indeed have hatred of women at their core. There are also many who believe in “game” who claim that game is best practiced only once one has let any anger go, and that an angry man can never truly master “game”. I fall into the latter camp, as do any others here.
“Game” is not some sort of monolithic ideology. It does not require hatred to be practiced, and many would argue that said hatred inhibits that practice. It will all depend on who you talk to.
Hmmm, this is sad…because it’s typical.
Before puberty, when boys tend to stick to boys and girls tend to do their own thing as well, something begins to change: girls begin to develop big breasts, wider hips, curves in some cases etc. Boys begin to produce a lot more testosterone. All of a sudden, the guys who thought you had cooties, can’t stop staring at you. Before that, most boys would much rather play with games or toys than even sit next to you in a classroom, and before that most girls would rather play dress-up and and watch cartoons and movies about finding their prince charming.
You know what’s ironic, girls, even after they become women never change, they’re childhood things just evolve: dressing up, becomes shopping. Looking for prince charming evolves into standards that men aught to meet in order for you to be in relationships with them. All these things are considered to be adult-like behavior when it comes to “relationships.” I mean shouldn’t a woman want a man of her dreams (regardless of how more realistic they become due to cynicism that develops over time)? Shouldn’t a woman want to look good, put on makeup, dress up and have matching shoes? Shouldn’t women have shiny things that make them feel good? These are all the same things that a 5 yr old girl feels as well. Yet this fits into what women call maturity.
And yet, with boys, once testosterone kicks in, at first, all they want is to grab your ass. Then they want to french kiss you and grab your boobies. This evolves into wanting to grab your hair, and spank you in the ass while hitting it from the back. Yet, in the minds of women, men wanting to do this immature? Why? If a man isn’t interested in a relationship (i.e. trying to make a woman happy by being close as he can possibly be to her idea of prince charming) then he’s sad and childish. Because, as always, women think their POV on life, which is based entirely on their feelings and instinct is the only truth. And yet that is the truth, that is the biggest lie for anyone who has any testosterone in their body.
The truth my lady, is that like many women, you look at men through vain colored glasses. You look at them and judge them based off of what you would do if you were a woman in a man’s body, and yet you lack no understanding of the essence of manliness. It’s like you trying to relate to a pet, as though it was a human being.
You’re projecting.
None of that is true as it pertains to me. Sorry!
@Holly
Care to expand, tell us about yourself. What were you like as a girl, compared to what you are today.
Well, I suppose most people don’t reaaallly want to know how the illusionist saws the lady in half or makes someone disappear.
We all beg to be shown the secret, but end up disappointed. ROK is just a look at the slow, grinding wheels that machine men into better product.
Or, the “making of sausage”, no pun intended. Women don’t want to see the sausage being made, they just want the final product to pop into their mouths.
“…they just want the final product to pop into their mouths.”
I see what you did there. Well-played, sir, well played indeed. What with the research that jizz is an antidepressant, this makes perfect sense.
Game makes women happy too, see, haters?
Ladies, get with men who have game (you will, whether you know it or not), and you’ll be happier, for a whole load of reasons. Haha!
As far as seeing how sausage is made… That would depend on the ingredients my friend.
Wait… What? You completely missed the point as to why women don’t like sites like these. They don’t like it because:
1. Men here openly discuss the fact that fat, ugly, feminists (and non-feminists) should be deemed unfuckable. This is a problem for most of them because it would mean that they’ll have to resort to vibrators and fingers to get off.
2. Men here openly call women they don’t like sluts and bitches and whores. Naturally all (or nearly all) women wouldn’t like this. Fair enough, though, I don’t like it when they call all men they don’t like rapists and pigs.
3. Men here openly break down the female psyche on how they manipulate betas. If we know their snares, we won’t get suckered by them… and this is a threat to women as they’ll have to come up with new “game” themselves.
4. Men here openly dissuade other men from getting married and having children. There’s no need to analyse why women would find this wave abhorrent.
4. Men here openly dissuade other men from getting married and having children. There’s no need to analyse why women would find this wave abhorrent.
Hamster is as hamster does. Those of us who have been destroyed by female infidelity and/or “I’m not haaaaaaaappy” and/or “I need to find myself” are giving the right advice to the young ‘uns.
Shut the fuck up until you’ve experienced the destruction of your family and the theft of your life’s work, aided and abetted by the feminista-friendly legal system, for no other reason that you were a blue-piller.
quick question!
According to “game”… Does the man pay on the first few dates?
If it’s a coffee.
So first date of coffee, a “game” guy will pay for.
Any date after that I’m assuming… they’ll expect to go dutch, not tell the girl that they expect to go dutch, resent her if she doesn’t take out her cash, still pay the whole bill and, in turn, feel even more resentful towards her.. in turn, trying harder at the game so he can get her in the sack and mess with her head. Then come on here and bitch about her, brag about what he did, and everyone’s like *yeeeah!*
is that about right or no?
There is no such things as a “game guy”. There are many different views across the internet with regards to game and how it should be practiced, and these in turn vary depending on where you are in the world.
Some men advocate never paying for any date. Some argue that you should always cover it. Some make both arguments, but apply them in different places. Some also feel comfortable paying and never come close to the resentfulness you seem to take as a given here. Some don’t like paying, but really don’t care all that much if they’re attracted to the girl and are willing to overlook it and continue talking to her.
You’re about as far off as you could be.
No. By, “If it’s a coffee,” I mean the “player” doesn’t invest too much time or cash for pussy. For instance, only a chump would go to a 5 star restaurant and order lobster and champagne for a first date. Why? Because to her he looks like he’s trying to buy sex – hence might only get a pity fuck at best. More likely he’ll be strung along for as many dates as it’ll take till his wallet’s bled dry (if he’s met the wrong type of woman).
I qualify women based on how much they like me for being me; not how much I earn, or what car I drive. If they stick around without loads of money being spent on them then they are worth spending money on, if that makes any sense.
As for, going Dutch, I don’t care what anyone here says, that’s just fucking cheap. At least split the bill.
women want a natural alpha (for reproduction), not a dude who’s learned how to fake being an alpha.
game used to be just that, a game. playing a woman into thinking you’re something you’re not so you can fuck her. but now, as this site is doing, its evolved into the actual making of men into something alpha.
women should be totally supportive of sites like this one promoting better men. that women are not is perhaps the most important question for the Western world today.
There’s the delusion again.
I’ve yet to see anything resembling the actual making of men in a substantial, genuine sense.
So far it’s all fake to get women in the sack while taking pride in making her feel like shit.
That’s as manly as growing a beard and getting tattoos. That shit doesn’t make you a man.
Everyone hates being rejected and everyone deals with it in different ways. Yes even the 18-24 year old 10’s have to deal with rejection and are afraid of it.
It’s a strange thing to read about all of this advice to elude rejection, but the actions advised are rejection-worthy.
Toughen up. Go through rejection without blaming anyone. Not even yourself.
Find that balance between chasing a woman who’s truly worth it, but having enough self respect to not be taken advantage of.
Find a way to treat a women nicely without getting all pissed that she’s not on your dick in appreciation. That’s not how real life works. For anyone.
It’s like friend-zone complaints. They let it be known that they being taken advantage of and not putting up any sort of boundaries to stop it… That’s your responsibility, guys. Not hers.
Keywords: boundaries. self respect. take responsibility. stop blaming.
As much as I’m reading the guys on here claim that any woman who looks good and doesn’t want to fuck them is a manipulative whore bitch who’s full of herself NEVER ONCE thinks that maybe she doesn’t want to fuck them because she just doesn’t like ’em? and she can tell your trying to pull game? Not once has that come up as a possibility? Delusional.
As long as hate and resentment fuels your game, you’re gonna be the loser, even if you fuck her.
You need to read more, though I suspect your mind is made up.
I don’t know who you’re reading, but most of us really don’t take pride in “making her feel like shit”. This is about our own improvement, not about womens’ feelings.
This is why we so often ignore female advice-it has no real application.
Most of us here have been through quite a lot of rejection, much more so than your typical attractive female has been. Most of us have been through a stage where that disparity in rejection, combined with the fact that we were rejected in and of itself, bothered us greatly and made us very bitter.
Most of us have already gone beyond that stage, and many of us have quit blaming women for what happened to us. In fact, many of us realized how unattractive our behavior was when the rejection occured, and understand now why those women would not have been interested in us. Many of us then decided to start learning how to improve on the things that made us unattractive.
In the end, this led many of us to sites like these.
You clearly do not understand us, nor do you understand the male perspective in this discussion in general. We’ve already toughened up, and we regularly advise one another to do the same. That is what sites like this and Roosh’s forum are for-you’ve offered no advice that can be applicable to us.
We are not “Nice Guys (TM)”. Cut the fuckery and quit trying to paint us with that brush.
Most of us understand that being nice to a woman does not entitle us to sex. Man of us learned that lesson perhaps a decade ago. If we didn’t understand that, sites like this wouldn’t exist.
That is why sites like these exist. If there were no understanding of the fact that many men are not finding success with women simply because they just aren’t attractive, we wouldn’t bother creating spaces to talk to men about how to become more attractive (better conversation, better date ideas, better, physique, etc, etc).
We’re well ahead of you.
@Holly
Wow, look at you being all motherly; telling boys to disregard what they want and desire, because if they don’t they’ll end up being losers (Substitute mother for church and loser for sinner and you can kind of see what you’re doing). And what exactly is a loser: according to you someone who has resentment and hatred. Resentment and hatred are emotions, they are not actions, and it is the action of sex that men are concerned about and why they are here. They do not come here to improve their emotional well-being, unless of course it leads to the action of sex, as all the fellas can and will attest to, if you act in a non-passive aggressive kind of way.
If men were interested in how to be in relationships, or finding women with self-respect and dignity, or how to make a woman happy (on her own terms), there are several resources: a mother, a female friend, magazines etc. There is a never-ending list of media dedicated to women expressing their wants and desires and speaking of them as though this is all life is about. But when a dude just wants to talk about f*cking and how he can do more of it, he’s likely to come to a place like this.
Now here is the difference between men and women when it comes to sex and relationships: men always have theories about women, and if they’re wrong, they lose and they have to develop a new theory or end up with nothing: game is simply a theory. However, with women, even thought they have theories as to what a good man is, or what manhood is all about, or what love is all about, or what a good relationship is all about, when those theories don’t work out, they say that it’s because men didn’t live up to them.
If game is wrong, then there is nothing to fear except a bunch of hateful men who gather together online to hate on women and bask in the glory of misogyny. But if you believe like many feminists, that a man’s emotion is the same as his actions, then by all means be the mother you are and try to guide these men towards the path of beta righteousness. Good luck to you, and may the good hamster lord be with you.
troll’s gonna troll
Wow. Just wanted to say that you killed it in this article. Very well done.
Athlone- I read your comments and I think I understand what you’re trying to bring to my attention here.
Each man is an individual who have their own unique way of processing the information provided on this, and other, game sites. Each individual man commenting on here has their own way of putting the processed advice into practice.
If i understood you correctly, you’re saying my assumption that utilizing the game techniques can only be motivated by a hate for women is way off the mark because not every guy who uses the game holds that as their motivation.
To lump every guy who reads this advice, and follows it in their own way, into a category of “misogynistic woman hater” (or anything insulting like that) is unfair, completely wrong, and generally… ignorant. Am I understanding that correctly?
Yes.
Athlone… What you are talking about is something completely different than what is otherwise brought across in these comment areas. You keep saying “us” and “we”…. If you really read the comments, all are fueled by the resentment of women, not the bettering of themselves or their situation. What you are bringing across to me is the exact and perfect opposite of the sentiments by nearly every other male commenter on here.
That’s in black and white. Right there. Read them yourself. What you are telling me, and what my comments are pertaining to, are two COMPLETELY different things. See what I’m saying?
And no- my mind is not made up. I understand doing things a certain way to protect yourself from crazy bitches… or from getting hurt by someone you barely know.. these things are important.
I want you to understand that my comments are to the commenters who are expressing what I have described.
Don’t you find the whole idea of coming to a board devoted to discussions by and for the opposite sex, and telling them what they should and shouldn’t do, and how they should process their emotions, just a little bit…
hypocritical? abusive? presumptive?
Why are there a bunch of chicks here?
Why don’t you girls go run and play?
– females infiltrate and subvert from the inside, it is their way
– they can’t get enough alpha attention in the real world, so they clitdiddle manosphere blogs
Yep.
And pro football, suddenly.
Holy motherfucker…
I wish Roosh just banned females from posting on this site. The comments section on every fucking article here is getting ruined by just one or two women. On this article it’s Holly and her inability to understand basic concepts. On the Indian article posted a few days ago it’s “Renee” or “Bharatiya Nari” spewing bullshit…
ya that savita person or whatever the account is…..bitches be crazy
I’ve never been called a creep.
Hey Athlone, who’s the chick in the very first pic with the black dress on? She’s gorgeous. Great article by the way, I’ve been reading most of your other works and I gotta give you props man. you’re the shit, and definitely the best writer on here. All of your columns are well-organized, well-articulated, thought-provoking, and I really enjoy reading them. I sent a bunch of my buddies the link to your columns and they say the same thing.
Thanks.
I’m sorry to say that I don’t have a name for you. She was just a hot chick I saw on some random tumblr, and her look seemed to fit the mood of the post so I threw it in. I’ve got no further details, unfortunately.
Feminism has always been about 2 things:
1. Sexual license for women to decide which men are most attractive and which women men are allowed to find attractive so that
2. The women of step 1 when they become old and loose, have a good chance of destroying the attraction between the men they ignored in step 1 and younger women that both challenge their ability to find a slave to pay for all their bad choices previously and in the future.
Game is the equivalent of the male pill, it sounds threatening and scary to the feminine imperative, I guess in the end it’s about control and no one wants to cede control.
Its not the articles themselves here that are creepy and offend women, but its mainly the comments section where any and everyone is allowed to come in and blabber their woman-hate all over the place.
Also ridiculous notions that women who sleep with you on the first date in the US are “feminist sluts” while women who sleep with you on the first day in foreign countries are “high quality feminine women” and if they don’t sleep with you then well they were “ruined by America’s global feminist agenda”.
And then you have comments like this one where the logistics of keeping a woman prisoner in your home is neatly worked out;
“The Philippines has no divorce. It is against the law. If you marry a Filipina in the USA then get the marriage registered in the Philippines, she can not legally divorce you in the Philippines. The rule is that the American husband can divorce the Filipina wife int he US and the Philippines will recognize the divorce. However, if the wife divorces the American husband i the US, the Philippines will not recognize the divorce, and as far as the Philippine national registry of marriages is concerned the woman is still married. The result is if she divorces you here she can not get remarried there.”
I’m all for men, especially American men who happen to be overweight and unattractive in general, getting fit and halfway decent looking with something to talk about besides video games. That’s all great and the more you can help them the better and more eye candy is it for me. But the comments section is just wacky.
Don’t worry, comments like the following ensure this blog will remain creepy despite any and all attempts by its bloggers to present so-called “relevant socio-cultural commentary”…
Mark Minter, “What you hear is cheap ass jealousy masquerading as feminism where any data that could remotely be skewed is used to say “Hah.: Deep down inside,
girlfriend knows the score that I am bigger, faster, stronger, smarter,
meaner, and fucking better than her. When I was 25 I was even prettier
than her when we laid side by side naked. At 57 I much prettier than my
scuzzy counterpart of the same age. My dick is prettier than that sea
anemone ugly clam she has for a vagina and it stinks less, and all of
this bugs the fuck out of her. ”
Ozzo’s reply, “Beat them to death with dildos and leave their disgusting bodies hung in the market square! “
Men are meant to be dominate and women are meant to kneel. Don’t play their game, make them play yours.
Really well said Athlone. Like what you said about Disney princes being just the way they are – never really looking at how they actually got there. They are expected to just be that way.
In regards to why it shouldn’t be strange for men to learn how to be more attractive, this is exactly what I was raising in my interview with the HuffPost Live. It just makes so little sense to rational sense that people would be upset by this.
http://3rdmilleniummen.wordpress.com/2013/04/03/huffpost-live-interview-done/
You will never know what women like, want, or think until you BECOME a woman. Moron.
Using Disney princess tales is a little biased since the same qualities apply to both genders. The heroine is almost always graceful & flawless to begin with, regardless of their story arc, same as the hero. In any case, the biggest reason I’ve always had to avoid men who ‘game’ would be the same fear as men have about beauty tricks – a facade wears off. It’s a concern in the same vein as finding out your partner inclines toward domestic abuse. If you can’t see their bad qualities now, they’ll come out in time. This is natural selection.
Likewise, approaching a relationship the way you would a job (changing behavior to please boss/potential date) might land you the same degree of happiness. I can’t imagine being unable to talk about stuff I’m passionate about with someone I’m supposed to be in love with. Assuming it’s a relationship you’re after, dissatisfaction and resentment will build up between naturally incompatible people who just wear attractive masks.
However, studies show that fit parents can pass better genes to their offspring, even in a family that’s traditionally obese. Habits promoting confidence, if they’re permanent and not just to gain a brief fling, will probably also be passed on to children. That’s just how evolution works, and every person regardless of gender should strive toward self-improvement for their entire lives.
If this advice is taken for self-improvement, instead of a direction that funnels a group of people into generics, good for you. It’s like religion – it’s best kept personal. Used to judge others, like believing “women are dumb” or “all women use men” is simply hateful behavior; it’ll cost you the girl who’s smart enough not to play games at all. I try to see all people as individuals rather than genders, and have found myself living a much happier life! It’s simply my hope to share that view.
As a woman, I actually find the content on this website super interesting. I really enjoy the articles, I think most women would too, if they bothered to give it a chance, since we’re naturally interested in all things social. It actually makes me sad that I’ve never seen a decent pua in action, because I really want to observe how one would apply what you write about.
Alright, who is gonna be first to write an article on the irrelevancy of feminist social engineering?
Girls do the exact same thing (e.g. the following books: Why Men Love Bitches, Why Men Marry Bitches, and He’s Just Not That Into You).
Great post, Athlone, I’m guessing you’re a Rational Male reader as well?
i think its more of the dont wait for yes but rape isnt real kind of stuff thats on here and the difinition of rape is causing an unpleasant feeling of fear or unease
Idiot. The definition of rape is sexual penetration without consent. This site says again and again that if she says no, you stop. That doesn’t mean you are obliged to not attempt to gain her consent again by making her feel comfortable once more.
“Don’t wait for yes” is a hell of a better piece of advice than “Get affirmative consent to every fucking thing you do before you do it.” Any man religiously following that ridiculous, puritanical brain fart is guaranteed to stay a virgin. Men don’t need to learn to ask for yes, women need to learn how the fuck to say no and mean it.
Another interesting angle that I don’t see touched upon here is that top quality women just “are”. Men are interested in beautiful women largely for being exactly as they were born. It is for this reason that so many fewer women strive to better themselves, especially the most beautiful ones. Most men do not improve themselves either, but they do in greater numbers because no one will ever care about them if they don’t.
Because no one requires anything of women, few learn any appreciation for hard work. These women expect men to be the same way, not realizing that men are judged by merit, and that merit is hard, requires sustained, continual effort and no shortage of failure.
The manosphere has a message of self improvement. However, the predominant feminist/SJW message is that they deserve to be loved and cherished just the way they are, without effort. The whole body-positive, inner-beauty message has been internalized by many beta males who will settle for a woman who is over-weight, selfish, uncompromising and any number of previously undesirable traits.
Sure, they are settling for that because they don’t want to improve themselves, or are afraid they would fail. They want to “be accepted as they are” too, so they accept women like this.
The terrible irony is that most of these women do not accept them as they are, but nag and henpeck them out of passive-aggressive resentment for not having improved themselves.
Some refer to women as “dream killers”.
This is a really good analysis of the observed – seemingly counter-intuitive – phenomenon of women discouraging masculine self-improvement. Ironically, a desire to please women prevents many men from ever pleasing a woman. And, arguably, this why women should never have any power: they don’t want it; they don’t know what to do with it; and everything goes sideways when they apply it.
No, what creeps women out most is the use of “game” as a way to treat women (and men!) like they’re machines, with premade, hardwired rules, immutably different for the two sexes, that they can’t help but follow. Now, there’s some truth to that. We do follow rules, rules that create inevitable differences between the sexes, and those rules are written into our genes by evolution.
But that doesn’t mean we aren’t all the same, too. Under the skin, the hair and voices and genitalia, we’re all human. We all are capable of laughing and crying, of getting scared of the same things. We can all feel shame and anger and sadness, we can all love – and I’m not talking about just romantic love here, of which sexual attraction is an undeniable part, but the deep sense of mutual trust and deep respect, affection and understanding and selflessness, which is a vastly bigger part of romantic love, and makes up the most of every other close, important bond humans are capable of making. It happens between any two or more individuals, young or old, male or female: between parent and child, sibling and sibling, relatives and friends, and, yes, lovers, too, ideally speaking. It’s not a burden to be carried upon men only; it’s to be shared equally by women, too.
The thing is, we are all first and foremost humans, behind the genetics which tell men to spread their seed as widely as possible, which insist that women find a partner who is truly devoted to her and will protect her and her children in their most vulnerable of times. Those things are because we are animals, because we have a driving need to reproduce and renew each generation, to keep our species from the brink of extinction. But as humans, we have an extra layer added to the chaos: we can think. And as such, we think about the future, and we worry about the future. Let’s face it – life is scary. As humans, part of having a life partner is having someone to face that yawning chasm of darkness before us, to be there to comfort us when we are afraid, that we might comfort them, when they have need of it, in their turn, that we have someone with whom we may share in both good times and bad: not just someone to have sex with, but a friend. A lover is ideally someone who respects you: who is unafraid to point out when you make mistakes, who makes you want to be better, yet who also loves you enough to stick with you when you act out, too, and to swallow their pride and admit their wrongs when they have made a mistake and hurt you inadvertently in return.
The whole culture of ‘game’ and PUAs disrespects that humanistic identity and returns to our more animal roots, viewing romance and love as simply an opportunity to ‘bed as many beautiful women as possible,’ to get past the tricky mind games they play and the immaturity that is supposedly hardwired into their behavior. And don’t get me wrong – I have seen plenty of nasty behavior from women in my time. But men have their sins too, in their own separate behaviorisms. Love, therefore, is not so much a matter of trying to ‘game the system,’ but it is rather learning to cope with and see past the idiosyncrasies of each individual partner, whether their roots lie in basic evolution or simply in their own personal habits and quirks. It’s honest and unbiased and trusting, because that is the magic of love – two people giving each other the keys to their own most vulnerable parts, both literally and figuratively, yet trusting each other enough that they know they won’t exploit those vulnerabilities, but instead protect them through kindness and caring and, well, love.
I’m not saying every article on this site is a vicious, cunning, cold-hearted PUA how-to that ought to be burned in the seventh circle of hell. But there are a few I’ve read that are horrifying enough that I hope they’re jokes, just as I’ve encountered hopeless drivel on feminist sites, and trans sites, and LGBT sites, and every other forum you can imagine. It’s these articles, I would conjecture, that do tend to make women denounce this site as ‘creepy.’
That’s nice honey.
Sydney