“Fine” dining seems to be a huge industry these days, especially in major cities. It’s associated with culture, class, and sophistication. But is it all that it’s cracked it to be? I am not a big fan of fine dining at all, to put it mildly, for these three reasons…
1. It’s Overpriced
When you go to an “upscale” restaurant, you never get what you pay for. I don’t care how “amazing” any given dish you order is. Unless it’s sprinkled with actual diamonds or gold dust, it should never cost more than $35. This has nothing to do with being cheap or generous, rich or poor. When you don’t get the value for the money you spend, you can’t help but feel like you have been taken advantage of, even if that was voluntary on your part.
Whenever I have to go to one of those restaurants where I end up spending $80 – $100 or more per person, I can’t help but start thinking about the starving children and Africa and how much they would be hating me for such necessary and overrated indulgence. I know that it’s beyond cliche to say something like this, and if I really cared about those children in Africa, I would probably be there now saving lives along with Red Cross, Unicef and alike, but I feel that there is something morally wrong with paying as much as some of those “fine” restaurants charge for food that’s usually not that great anyway. I am sure that you noticed that the vast majority of upscale restaurants have one quality in common – they are overrated and consistently fail to woo you with either their food or their service.
2. It’s Extremely Unhealthy
I am not sure at all which one is more unhealthy – a cheeseburger at McDonald’s, that has been getting so much bad rap, or a heavy pasta dish at an Italian restaurants or a typical entree at a French restaurant full of all kinds of greasy ingredients. I can’t imagine how deep fried spaghetti with tons of sauces and cream at a typical French or Italian restaurant is any healthier than bread with some average quality meat, cheese and vegetables in between. If you look at a menu of a high-end restaurant that attracts all those business people and compare it to the far more simple and less “sophisticated” menu of your local crepe cafe, you will find the latter to be so much healthier and so much more nutritious.
3. It Prevents An Intimate Connection On Dates
Going out to a high end restaurant for a date is one of the typical mistakes that guys make. Some guys do this to impress the girl they are going out with, but dining in a formal atmosphere where you are spaced far from your date will hardly be helpful to developing a romantic connection, even when the two people seem to like each other.
Some guys think that they can make up with expensive food for what they are lacking in personality and sense of humor, or what the girl they are out with is lacking in the same departments. However, going out on a date to an expensive dinner will only postpone the inevitable decline of that interaction. If there is nothing there between the two of you, there is no wine bottle or exotic dessert in the world that will make your connection any better. The fact that expensive restaurants are notorious beta male magnets doesn’t help the romantic cause either.
I love eating as much as anyone else. Dining is a huge industry involving art and science. However, we should not make more out of it than it is, and we should remember that fine dining is by far not the best investment – literally, or into our health, or into our romantic interactions.
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And my beta friends still wonder why my rule has always been “no dinner before we’re banging.”
I really don’t think the author has ever been to a truly great restaurant. Yes, if you’re paying 35 for an entree at Ruby Tuesday’s or some shit, you’re an idiot, but if you scout your restaurants out beforehand, you should get solid value for your dollar.
…man, fuck that. If you’re closing a client, treating yourself like a king, or hunting high-end ass, a “rez at Dorsia” is fine.
If you just want “food”, fine dining is bullshit.
I live in NYC so there are plenty of fine dining options which will not break the bank as well as plenty of more frugal options. There are any number of tapas bars where a bottle of decent wine and 6 different tapas plates will still be under $100
I agree with this article. Upscale dining is the last thing you want to do when getting the 1st and 2nd bang from a chick.
The food portions are too fucking small for the large price your paying. I’m aware that the chef is using top quality ingredients to prepare my food, but damn they charge a lot for a little bit of food.
A man has a better chance of banging a chick if its at his place and he’s serving box macaroni and tequila shots.
CHURCH
If you’ve ever gone to proper fine dining you do realise it’s going to be an 8 course meal. That’s why portions are small. Common misconception.
I go to fine dining places alone like a boss.
I like your style, man.
Fine dining is for foodies and betas.
“Foodie” is POF and OKCupid speak for “girl fattie”
Well yes, the prime demographic for Food Network.
Sorry, but I totally disagree with the opinion of the author.
Fine dining is for people who appreciate cooking as an art form. I would never take a woman on a first date to a place that serves multiple-course meals. Maybe a LTR if she appreciates trying different types of food like I do. There’s nothing wrong with trying the occasional fine dining place just like there is nothing wrong with taking a vacation and pampering yourself in a luxurious hotel. Fine dining is all about the experience. Also I don’t consider expensive Italian and French restaurants to be fine dining. Places that serve multiple courses or provide a tasting menu showcasing the chef’s talents are what I would consider fine dining.
Eating with style is one thing, a date is a different thing.
the problem with fine dining in the US is other than price and ambiance, it is not fine dining….
some of these so called amazing Italian restaurants in places like Vegas and California would have your average native from Rome or Milano laughing in your face.
the point of good Italian food is to enhance one or two good flavors, but in the US it’s the opposite ,linguini with chicken and prawn and avocado and basil and garlic and onions and rosemary, and sesame seeds and cashew nuts in a cream tomato and mushroom, and bacon sauce….. sounds impresive
but this is not fine dining, this is what the pigs eat from the slop buckets in Rome
Don’t you sound snobby? WTH is fine dining? wth is the fine dining “Experience”? Can someone give me a rational answer to this?
I live in Atlanta and we have a large variety of restaurants ranging from 5-star gems to ethic, authentic places which have great food. Fine dining has it’s place, but if you are playing the field and dating, you will quickly find that you are going to spend some serious coin in the pursuit of pussy.
I have a “short-list” of go-to places where I can eat with a date for $30 (no alcohol). Some of the best food is Vietnamese Tex-Mex, Korean or other Asian fare (which emphasizes vegetables over meat and potatoes). At some point, if you are using the “3 dates to a bang” equation, you are going to have fork out some coin, “Can’t play if you can pay”. The question here is whether or not you look like a penny pinching A-hole, or you can dazzle them with some new culinary experiences which do not cost you a mortgage.
It’s not beta to take a women to dinner. It is beta to spend money foolishly on them for no reason at all! Save the expensive dinners for special occasions and/or for that LTR woman that is worth the investment. Every thing else, economize!
Take that bitch to MJQ, or bar hop in Virginia Highlands and hit that shit on the first night. If she gives you anal, reward her with a trip to Lobster Bar.
Good post…I agree with your points…taking a date to a fine dining restaurant is indicative of a lack of game…any Man who is thinking about impressing a woman has already lost his dominant frame. In addition to that, I find that I would be distracted by what’s going on in the restaurant than focus on my date…I think it’s much wiser, strategic, and romantic to have a chick over at your place so the two of you can cook something up together or just go to a “medium” priced restaurant…
real upscale dining is good. but its also expensive.
what they try to pass off as “fine dining” in this country it cheap chain restaurant bullshit with everything overpriced. put a few fancy nick nacks on the table, make the waiter wear a bowtie, put some lettuce or whatever under your steak and jack up the price by 30 bucks. thats not fine dining. thats called being a schlub and getting ripped off.
only fat bitches that watch food channel all day, panzy boys who dont know how to fuck and fat working class married men who can sense that their marriages (and lives) are about to be over and are in a last ditch effort to (unsuccessfully) get their fat wives to stay go to places like this.
i reserve real nice dining for very special occaisions only (my own birthday) and cook and grub like a motherfucker the rest of the time.
Here is something I do (depending on the hottness of the chick)
Take her to a nice place happy hour, you get the ambiance and great food but at 75% off
winning!
Or better yet just invite her to your place and make some food!
…And even if you *do* manage a conversation, you’ll be constantly interrupted mid-sentence by the server barging in to ask inane questions about how you like the appetizer that arrived ten seconds earlier, the wine you haven’t even tasted yet, the main course the first bite of which you’ve just shoved in your mouth, the napkins, the salt and pepper, the charger, the floral arrangement, the candle, the carpet, etc. etc. etc. Needy and rude.
It’s been a long time since I had decent service at any restaurant. Definitely not worth what you pay for the privilege.
…the annoying manager going from table to table asking “how is everything?”.
The god-awful loud music. Always the chorus of screaming black chicks, or worse, a plaintive ballad by a 14-year old white chick, followed by “Kenny Rogers” or some whiny progressive rock.
I have been telling my friends for years wasting money at a restaurant on a first date is always a losing proposition. Take her to a lounge or bar get her wasted and make your move.
Truly fine dining is fantastic. The trick is weeding out the pretenders. One tell-tale sign: a busy restaurant with a ton of smoking hot young women in it will be coasting on atmosphere and light on food quality.
I take them to a very cool local dive. I then proceed to split a sandwich or wrap. I have them sit on the same side of the booth as I do.
The small meal makes them open for dessert. Nothing like a mouthful of chocolate to push a girl’s buttons. Careful with the negs, though:
“I’m gonna race that cake to your inner thighs…”
I’ll leave you with two more for your list:
4. You’re often dining among swine (and this is not necessarily the clièntele).
5. What you’re eating may be slightly fictional, and even worse than you think.
That hugely thick slab of Wagyu beef you’re eating at Chez Pretentious? That did not come that way from the cow. Google “Transglutaminase meat glue” and watch a few videos. ABC Australia’s exposé will likely put you off your oversold dinner.
Pull a Ford Fairlane — toss a burger and a shake down that chick’s throat.
Don’t let her say she’d like a “meatless kiss” — you know how it is with those fussy eaters. Give her the bonus play!
6. Pretentious Staff
Dining is the last opportunity for the LTR beta to get a dopemine hit from tasty food.
Agreed, especially on point #3. Guys, any dates you go on have to be at venues where you are physically next to your date. This is critical to initiating contact, flirting, literal “push-pulling”. I scout out date venues beforehand and know where there are places with bench seating vs. opposite-side tables. Restaurants that seat you opposite one another should be”NEXT’ed”!
I totally disagree…Im 35 and shagged a hot 20 year old after I took her out to a fancy hotel bar and hotel room in Vancouver BC…fine dining/hotles/etc…is the way into a young woman’s womanhood, if you’re older
R.Don Steele recommended this in his “How to Date Young Women for Men Over 35”. Essentially you are providing her experiences that young men cannot. Food usually is crap but it’s the “ambiance” that is doing the work for you.
Once again, its knowing the right tool for the job. If a rez at Dorsia is going to seal the deal, do it.
But if you’re taking some broad to a high end dinner because you think she’s “worth it” or you want to impress her, stand by for disappointment.
Exactly, The high end dining reinforces the fact you are a man of means.
If you are not?
Don’t do it.
Well said. Besides, there’s not a big difference in quality between places with $10-20 entrees and those with $20-40 entrees. Or should I say the proof is in the pudding. Most people fool themselves into thinking the food will be that much better only because of the price. I don’t care who’s serving it – delicious and healthy food is delicious and healthy food and most of us can spot shit when we see/taste it.
My ex-wife was on the same page as I was and in fact we’d split an entree, since in America they’re big enough to feed a cow.
And definitely never, ever take a woman you’re dating to a restaurant. If you’ve already banged her, a $3 taco from a truck is fine. Dinner dates are for LTRs and married couples people!
Personally I’ll take an authentic ethnic spot, even (especially) if it’s a hole-in-the-wall place, over fine restaurants every time…you still get awesome food in a more laid-back atmosphere with a lot of character for way less money. Quality high-class places are definitely a great experience but they’re best saved for special events.
Never take a woman to “dinner” until after you have established a relationship. Going out to a restaurant on first date is guaranteed disaster. Same for the movie house, where you are likely to get trapped in a Denzel Washington epic while your opportunities with her dwindle to nothing as her ass gets sore in the crappy seat. Not sure why the dinner-movie outing is prescribed activity for prospective suitors but be forewarned it’s going to end badly. Sandwich at the park or food truck tops, then split on a high note as you are Important Man.
Now as for fine cuisine, just had this discussion yesterday with my wife, as featured in “A Man Wants a Wife, Not a Co-Worker”. On a recent “Anthony Bordaine” he goes to Koreatown in LA, and one of the locals takes him to the most popular restaurant in Koreatown : Sizzler. Not much difference between Sizzler at ~$20/plate and a lot of upscale dives charging 3 times that but no increase in quality, not to mention the wait staff expecting $30 tips and acting like their slophouse is such a refined experience.
The whole thing is difficult for me as my wife is a talented chef and going to any restaurant in this country is a huge letdown compared to her cooking. Generally I just suffer through it as she just wants a break from the kitchen now and then. Yesterday she made “flaky biscuits” from scratch after having seen it on a “Bobby Flay” and studying biscuit recipes for hours. We could not find decent buttermilk at the store so they were not perfect “flaky” and she nearly tossed them out.
Street and restaurant food in her country of Vietnam is excellent though. The whole culture revolves around cooking and eating. On youtube search “Dac San Viet” (“special food Vietnamese”) for a dose of their fantastic food delights.
Sorry to make it All About Elmer. Not trying to sound like a dating guru but you gotta watch out for getting roped into scenarios where you lose control, such as dinner/movie or loud bar. Also if her friends are involved things can go badly. Seldom had a situation where her friends did not have a visceral hatred of me.
If dinner and movies are out, what’s left in turns of “first date” spots? I don’t think you can get every chick to go out to the bar with you on a first date. Or can you?
I’ve fine dined once : “Here sir this exquisite bla bla bla bla precious thing”. It was a small I don’t know what with I don’t know what into it, downed it in one bite, didn’t feel anything special. It’s a thing for girls.
Reason #4. It is a weird loser fetish. A nerdy one, nowadays.
Look at these dorks, eating their dessert right off the table, and soo pleased with themselves:
At 6:40 you can see that 4 out of 6 parties at the table are filming the entire thing. SWPL behavior.
I think one of the new phones can film something like this while filming your reactions in a little box in the main picture.
One of the commenters on the youtube video said: One of the blueberries was out of place. Ruined the whole thing for me.
Robin Williams used to have a bit about sushi. He said it was a joke the Japanese are playing on us. When the get back in the kitchen they say:
Ha ha. they ate the raw fish. Let’s see if they’ll drink the hot wine.
That is what this is like.
I’d rather have a Caravaggio for dinner than a Jackson Pollack. Does anyone else find all the clinking and fussiness irritating? Its “nifty”, but far too precious for my tastes.
I’ve never understood steak houses. For 1/3 of the price I can make a better tasting steak at home (charcoal rules). Plus they always have the worst, most boring sides – potato and overcooked veges – how amazing!. Complete waste of time and money.
Pho joints are good for dates – intimate, often new for most girls and cheap as hell.
Besides it’s all Central American food anyway. Don’t get it? Look who’s prepping and cooking that sit.
If you go to a nice restaurant on a date, ask her if she would like to sit at the bar so you can get that intimate feeling and easily initiate physical contact.
First, second, or even third dates, never take her to anything more expensive than say a Chipolte Grill or a Starbucks.
I always preferred to bang my girl/wife earlier in the evening before we went to dinner. Much more hornier and much more energy than after a big meal and a bunch of drinks later in the evening.
Are you related to Robert Ringer, author of the famed “Looking Out for #1” books?
No, but I read Getting What You Want many years ago.
One can apply this same stupid logic to
Like with all things, you got to weed out the pretenders. Most of these places run on hot air. The best spots are usually ethnic, or simple and non-pretentious. I live in east Sacramento, where all the old money is at. (found a great deal on a simple studio, clean part of town, cops work for you not against you, etc.) I’m amazed at all the people dropping $20 for a fried chicken breasts and watery (ne, pureed) mashed potatoes. But the menu is a combination of French and obscure English words!!! (Instead of saying carrot they’ll use the varietal or hybrid name, HAHAHA) Being a foodie and amateur chef I’ve found the best spots are rarely on the best side of town. That includes grocers.
Bullshit it’s just as unhealthy. If they use butter, cream and lard and serve foie gras, cured hams and a greasy piece of duck or plate of mussels, with a good cheese platter for dessert and a good bottle of wine at a French restaurant, good, I’d eat there! That’s real food mother fucker! Better than a “crepe” made of bleached flour fried in rancid vegetable oil and topped with crappy cheese or whatever, a cheap beer or diet fizzy to go with.
I agree though about restaurants in general. Cooking at home, I can eat healthier, more delicious, more creative food than at a restaurant, and not have to share the place with a bunch of other wine and diners. It might not be as fancy but a date will surely appreciate the effort more than simply fronting up the cash to go out. Well, depends on your date I suppose…
At some point (at least with food) the quality of the food and drink is not going to go up, and you’re paying for luxury or other things such as the atmosphere, a house specialty, amenities provided with your visit, a kitchen staff lead by a chef, live music, etc.
I would not disparage people choosing these things if they want and can afford them, but sometimes there is some snobbery caused by people wanting to be superior to others..
However, snobbery is a two way street, and people who can’t afford or don’t want fine dining have their own set of pretensions.
I don’t think the author has had enough experience with fine dining. Besides if you’re going to fine dining it’s not going to cost $100. More like $180. I’ve eaten at Le Gavroche (2 Michelin stars) in London on multiple occasions and it is without doubt the best food and service I’ve ever experienced. The places the author has been to are probably scams and dressed up to look like fine dining. Watch Michel Roux Jnr prepare his dishes on youtube. You will get an idea of the craft these artists create.
It should never cost more than $35? Do some research on just how expensive fine dine restaurants are to run, the cost of produce is only the tip of iceberg. If you are eating in a restaurant with an amazing view then maybe think about factoring in the price of rent into your meal. Should I continue?
Seriously though, it is the pretense associated with food that kills me. You’re eventually going to pee and poo out the metabolic waste that was once this supposed “artistry”. Stop acting like you’re doing anything more than looking for a hit of dopamine you unfortunately legal junkie.
Totally agree with the poster that said there’s no energy for sex after food. The salt alone makes me want to crawl out of my skin and never eat again, just to spite my body for bloating.
And WHY do we have to hold our forks the way we do? UGH! It’s so dainty and gay.
not only that if i go out i want my plate full not two peas with a drizzle of sause around it