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What Is Game? (ROK Mailbag)

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Some navel gazing

Dopeman writes:

Could you please define a definition of Game? What is Game really? A system, a structure, strategy or maybe an ideology?

This is an interesting question. I believe the definition of game both varies from person to person and is particular to an individual. Since we all come from different backgrounds, starting points, and have different goals it is hard to define is as an absolute thing.

For me, game is initially a skill that you learn that eventually becomes second nature to you. It’s also partly a realization that things are not what you thought they were, and that you must adjust yourself to the actual realities of the world.

It’s knowing when to react, and when to be nonreactive. For example, if she starts accusing you of something you grab and kiss her to shut her up (reactive), and conversely if she mentions she had a threesome you casually ask her to pass the salt (nonreactive). it’s also realizing that you can get away with a lot more than you think. You know when to touch, how to touch, where to touch. It’s a tool that eviscerates the idea that “I’ll never have sex again” because you can, and will, have sex rather often.

Think of it as learning to drive a manual transmission. At first, you can barely move the car. You are terrified. You keep stalling every few minutes. Slowly you learn how to drive straight lines, but struggle to fully grasp it as you have difficulty up hills and with parking and other tasks. Eventually you get better and can do a full drive without fucking up. Then you actually become good at it – you downshift going into corners because you can. You start from a stop on 2nd gear as opposed to first, because you know the clutch so well you can time it just right as opposed to a beginner who could never do that. Once in a blue moon you will still stall out, but overall it has become second nature to you. That even when you get back into an automatic transmission, you still rest your hand on the gear knob because that’s just what you are used to.

If you apply that analogy to game, at first you are terrible with interactions with females. You are terrified to approach. When you do, you stall out and the conversations go nowhere. Eventually you learn how to engage girls and get numbers, but can’t fully close. Then you become good at it – get some bangs in. You start pushing yourself by doing things you wouldn’t have done in the beginning. You get to a point where you are advanced, skipping steps. You still fuck up here and there (stall), but eventually when you meet a girl you just start gaming her without realizing it. It becomes a part of who you are, instead of an idea of concept you are trying to use.

– Law Dogger

Game is a set of social skills that permit you to become sexually intimate with women. But who gives a shit what the definition of game is? What is this, Aristotle’s “Categories”? You already know what it is. As Theolonius Monk once said when asked to define jazz: If you got to ask what it is, you’ll never get to know.

-Quintus Curtius

Pissed-in pool

Cody writes:

“I’m back together with an estranged gf of 11 years…you think I should ride with her? I’m quite certain she rode the carosel in those years… I honestly don’t give a fuck about her and her shit though, but sometimes I do feel like she’s the one who got away…

First off, you state in the same sentence that you don’t give a fuck about this girl yet she is the one that got away. So currently you yourself have no idea what you think of her. Second, without providing more detail there is no way for me to give a viable answer. What makes her “the one who got away?” More importantly, it is hard to believe nobody in 11 years has tickled your fancy in the same way. Read up on oneitis, sounds like what we have going on here.

– Law Dogger

Generally, these things do not work out well. If you broke up with her, there’s usually a good reason why you did so in the first place. Hanging around with her will prevent you from finding better girls. Be honest. You’re with her now because it’s a sure thing and you want the sex. You’re looking for a comfort blanket. That’s not a good plan.

– Quintus Curtius

She’s just not that into you

James writes:

Scenario: I am at a small piano bar in NYC on a Saturday night. I spot an attractive girl (mid 20s) sitting (alone, believe it or not) at the bar with a glass of wine. I take a seat next to her, open her. I quickly determine English is not her native language. I ask her where she’s from – she turns out to be Albanian. Moved to NYC a few months ago, staying with her cousin. She is a bit shy at first but warms up to me in time. Laughing, touching my arm, etc. Unsolicited, she ask if I have “a facebook.” She hands me her phone. I add her. I ask for her number but she says she doesn’t know it (wtf?) and asks me to put mine in her phone (of course this is a bad idea, always get the girl’s number, don’t give her yours). She orders another glass of wine, we continue chatting. Again, she is being quite warm and friendly throughout, touching, etc. 11:30 rolls around, she receives a phone call, goes outside to take it. Says it is her cousin and that she has to head home, has things to do in the morning tomorrow (doubtful). I invite her back to my place for wine, she declines politely. “Message me sometime, show me new place” she says. She hugs me and kisses my cheek.

Messaged her 3 days later asking if she was free to meet up that evening. Read, no response. Has not unfriended me.

Question: In most circumstances, I would just attribute this to the girl being polite/feeling something in the moment and then changing her mind later. I find it odd that she asked me to add her on Facebook though, before I even asked for her contact info, and continues to be my “friend” on there despite not responding to my message. Also, I would appreciate any info you have regarding Albanian girls in general. I do not recall you writing extensively about them, though you may some articles somewhere that I’m unaware of.

Any insight would be appreciated.

P.S. I do not have anything incriminating on my Facebook. Very sparse, about a dozen photos, a few funny/sarcastic status updates. Nothing that I would imagine would turn a girl off or on. Just basic stuff.

See the heading above. To quote Roosh from Brazil Compendium, “If a girl asks for your Facebook, the interaction will soon be over.” This isn’t just true in South America. She found you interesting enough to talk to and perhaps milk for a drink or two, but it is clear that even before your messaged her she had no interest in seeing you again. Congratulations, you just upped her friend (read: orbiter) count on social media.

Starting from the bottom

Bruce writes:

While being an avid reader of ROK, I am still socially inept. Would a Dale Carnegie course be a step in the right direction? Not sure about the science (genetics, introvert, shy) behind it, but I’m pretty sure it’s a habit that can be broken. It’s even more frustrating having the tools with no experience on how to use them. There are three types of men on ROK (plus outliers).
1) Established players/ man who gets play
2) Men who can socialize but still can’t get laid.
3) Men who can’t socialize………….. . . . . . . .
I know you just have to “do it”, but that puts the GAME on hard mode for man #3. Where do I start?

Paying to take a course may help, but I honestly think it’s a lousy first step. I used to have some serious problems with anxiety, so I would suggest you first read that article and perhaps apply a few of those strategies. Ineptness and shyness are two distinct problems, though both can be managed by getting reps in. In the Beige Phillip podcast, Dante Nero has a strategy he calls “laying the five bricks,” which basically amounts to making a certain fixed number of mini-approaches during the day. In a case where you’re simply trying to defeat shyness, these don’t even have to be with good looking women.

So, you need to get off the internet and strike up a conversation with anyone about anything, and do that three times every day. Like a shirt a guy’s wearing? Tell him it’s sharp, and ask where he got it. Think the coffee girl made your drink extra tasty? Let her know and ask what she did differently. Talk to everyone, and ask lots of questions. See how people react to you—you’ll notice that people are generally friendly and understanding when you’re asking about their life. Also, keep a log of what you did and how people reacted. This will help you notice patterns in the interactions.

You’ll probably feel like you bombed the first 100 interactions, but I guarantee that after a month of doing this you’ll feel more comfortable about transitioning those interactions to women in a pickup setting. We all have different baseline appetites for social stimulation, but blaming your genetics is a cop-out. This is a solvable problem, but you are the only person who can change your fortunes. Do it or don’t. And write back and let us know how it goes.

-Black Knight

That’s it for this week. If you would like a question answered by the ROK staff, send it via email or the anonymous form.

Read More: Do You Love Game?

92 thoughts on “What Is Game? (ROK Mailbag)”

  1. Game: adjective, noun, verb
    Selling a system($) of failed pickup artist dogma by dudes who play a good wordy game and act tough without earning social proof (or requisite distinction) in order to fool low value females into spreading their legs, without concern about their emotions, or treating them with basic goodness.
    Women who have self worth don’t fall for these shenanigans and tom foolery.
    Pushed by people obviously lacking in
    character, morals, class, and/or money.
    Believed by gullible kids who don’t have father figures in a world of feminist communism.
    See roosh’s book about Denmark (and not getting laid in Canada as well)…

    1. Average omega degenerate male like yourself who will never get laid:
      “Game doesn’t work because women want equality,respect and nice guys who care about their feellllliiiings. Not big meanies like you guys!!!!!!!”
      Yawn. You’re pathetic.

      2. I must have natural “game”.
        I have never needed a book to learn how to get laid, or pick up women.
        That, and I date women whose families own land that in monetary value exceeds every PUA posting here put together (times 10 lol).
        Sure, I don’t bang every woman who offers me sex. Or any of them (and I get offers from sluts daily).
        But me natural “don’t care about banging skanks” game.
        I stopped banging hoes in high school.
        Some of us find greener pastures.
        I like the finer things in life. Golf. Aviation. Surfing.
        Good food. Good wine. High class chicks.
        I am reminded of Rufus Sewell’s quote from ‘a knights tale”.
        Adhemar: You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
        Sure hollywood spun it into a rags to riches happy ending to fool the lower classes into thinking they can get a “10”.
        I am the PUA’s kryptonite.

        2. Now tell us the one about how you have a smoking hot wife or about how your watch costs more than our cars.

        3. I’m not married, and cannot tell the difference between a 10k and 60k rolex.
          Try again.

      1. “Game doesn’t have to be dishonesty. You can learn pick up without being a fuck. ”
        “Game” IS dishonesty. It is faking what you are. You either have it or you don’t.
        “Silly little mindedness you’re rockin’.”
        Disagreeing with you doesn’t prove I am “little mindedness”.
        Just proves you cannot handle the debate so you attack me personally.
        Its called “ad hominem”.

        3. Dude, you make up your own definitions and facts and base your “arguments” around your asserted yet unproven baller lifestyle. Go home.

        4. There you go again with the personal attacks.
          Its not my fault you cannot comprehend basic logic.
          Every time you attack me personally you disprove your assertion, and prove me correct.
          And you don’t realize you are doing it! Lol!
          I would surmise you have basic reading comprehension problems.

        7. I’ve always felt comfortable around girls and they’ve been attracted to me (from a young age). Learning about game just gave me more facets to shine with. Does that make my stance any more clear?

        8. I agree.
          In 3rd grade I kissed a girl, and the teacher took us on a “date” to the movies.
          I haven’t ever seen that before, or since.
          However, I have a friend who was a manwhore in high school and screwed chicks left and right.
          His wife recently left him cause he is a douche, and his new wife looks like a girl power idiot.
          This guy has money and game, but even that won’t help you if you are a douche.
          I honestly think his problems with women are…..karmic.
          He probably won’t have kids with his new wife.
          Funny how life works.

        9. Yeah I like to be a decent human being as well as having sex with beautiful women. I’m no pua but they’ve taught me a lot. Game is playful and both parties should enjoy it; ladies have their tricks and such too. To write off what we all have been sharing with each other for years because you think it’s some fantastical act seems silly to me at best. Sure, you have your shiny charlatans but I’d hope you don’t lump everyone in that group to avoid your own cognitive dissonance.

  2. What is game?
    Baby don’t hurt me
    Don’t hurt me
    No more..
    (Sorry. Couldn’t help it)

  3. Game is a praxeology (system of methods and practices) based on the direct observation of male/female intersexual relations, designed to maximize a particular man’s sexual and reproductive goals through intensive personal development, adept understanding of human social dynamics, and mastery of a socially dominant presentation.

  4. For “Starting at the bottom”.
    The points given were solid. The distinction between shyness and ineptness is sound. Almost everyone has some degree of shyness… but if you’re very shy and that is the problem, go join a public speaking course. The point is that it is a zero stress environment that gets you used to speaking to a crowd and making a point… gives you the chance to tweak the way you speak… and everyone supports each other no matter what.

    1. “Sarah wants us to pay back all the women who lost money because vagina.”
      By assigning them to be cannon fodder or labouring in the coal mines.
      Black lung, the new equalist black.

    2. I’ll give ’em what they deserve for coming up with something so stupid. A fat sack of deeznutz.

    3. Sarah Silverjew was never funny.
      She is there to show the goyim how awesome the master kosher race is.

        1. If I could go back in time, and have a 5 minute chat with uncle Adolph and uncle Lee, the world would be a better place for us goys.

        3. I have seen zero physical evidence of that.
          And I have been to Dachau.
          The US is a zionist pawn.
          That I can prove.

        4. There was no extermination policy for Jews in those camps; in fact German commanders caught abusing them received the death penalty. 250,000 Jews died in the camps at the end of the war due to starvation and disease due to the supply lines being bombed by the allies.
          In fact, 6 million Germans were genocided during and after the war. 1.7 million of them by Eisenhower (a half-jew) himself:
          http://rense.com/general46/germ.htm

        5. Actually, the american jews and stupid goyim bombed the supply line to the camps, the people got sick and starved.
          Then the hollywood jews went in, filmed the carnage, and blamed ze Germans.
          So the allies caused those deaths!
          And then lied about it.
          I cannot think of anything more evil than that.

        6. You two Nazi apologists should go eat a fucking gun. Fascists are the worst kind of scum in the history of the world. I could give two rats asses about the Jews and their constant parade of victimhood, but Fascists are the bottom of the barrel. Period.

        7. I think the 3 of us should break bread sometime and realize we are likely on the same page in regards to the Js…

        11. Italians. “Nazi” is short for “national socialist”. El Duce never had a problem with the Jews.

      2. Lol I agree there. To quote Sarah Silverman “I would kill Jesus again if I had the chance… i would do it in a heartbeat”.then she strongly Petitions for all abortions and staunchly feminist. She is good looking however. But hates the goyim.

    4. She also led a recent SNL skit proclaiming “the whites’ reign is coming to an end”. She keeps the agenda quite well. And to think I was once a fan of Jimmy Kimmel…

      2. She used to talk about how his balls smelled. He didn’t like it but she did it anyway. If he actually had balls he should’ve started discussing her… Lol. I don’t know why, but I don’t feel like typing what I was going to.

      2. Of course they did….it doesn’t fit into their narrative. They don’t want to upset the new money pile (women).

    6. Sarah, what a pretty name for a true asshole. Less comedian than smart-assed media spokesbitch for a certain demographic of pretentious, absorbed assholes. She thinks her assholery is OK cause she’s got all the right opinions. Opinions really are like assholes.

      1. Men get paid more when men work more and men will always work more and harder, doing more dangerous, dirty work. What is really new under the Sun? Well, modern technology, the hard work of war and innovation and construction has produced new innovations thus making life more comfortable for the female and her “house work” entailing putting dishes and clothes in machines that wash them and she’s shown her gratitude!! A fat, entitled cunt watching Oprah-style u-grrrrl ego-stroke programs telling her she has the hardest job in the world and deserves MORE. MORE. Her grandchildren or great grandchildren will pay.

        1. I was teaching a grade 12 course in economics and the topic of wage determinants came up. I confronted the class with the fact that women – on average – earn significantly less than men and asked them if they thought that was fair? They took the bait.
          .
          So then we go through the chapter in the textbook – which was no political screed with an agenda or anything – and every single point the book made obviously showed that men should, on average, make more money.

        2. Good job. A male teacher and teaching “hateFacts”. Good luck to you brother. …
          Btw, I’m sure you know this, so I’m just saying it, but never be alone in a room with a female student. Protect yourself and know the “powers that be” don’t have your back. You have to find this amusing to see some dude online telling you this but… god, the horror stories I’ve read about online and heard about in real life! You are in a gynocentric society in a completely female dominated work environment surrounded by teenage girls that are already filled with feminist lies. I assume female teachers are in agreement with most feminist assertions and myths.

    8. What these women forget is that not only do they get paid “78%” of what a man earns, they also get a minimum of 50% of the man’s salary, along with child support and in many cases, a free house. Keeping it simple though, your cock and balls entitles you to ahem, maximum 78% of the net salary you and your woman earn and until the woman decides otherwise, the right to abode in the home you paid for and access to your kids.
      Once woman get paid 100% of your salary, you will then be entitled to maximum 67% of the net salary. Welcome to the fair and free modern society.

    9. Maybe she could convince other women to “pay it back”. It’s usually another woman waiting in the wings to steal a job or move up in the company (for less pay) – not a man and not the “corporation”.
      I don’t blame another guy for being a better negotiator or taking less money for the position. I just did a shitty job at negotiating the contract.
      This is another example of women not taking responsibility and finding more shit to blame on men.

  7. Applied charisma. That definition is not original to me, but I’ve always thought it was the best.

  8. Game is also a transitional thing. I’m now in my early 40’s and in a state of change.
    Years ago I had my own business, had an awesome fit body and was graced with good looks. I had no problems having LTRs or ONSs with models, actresses and the like. This lasted until age 35. Fast forward 7 years and my company went broke, I had to settle for a dead end job that barely lets me pay the bills. Also, looks started fading and a chronic injury prevents me from hitting the gym with decent weights.
    Now the joke is on me. I can no longer go for 9’s and 10’s as I used to (unless I really get lucky, which happens once or twice a year) and I get friendzoned, disrispected and played by women regularly. I realized I need game.
    At the same time, right after hitting 40, I swallowed the bitter red pill and discovered other men that think like me in this and other sites (because in my country 99% of men still beleive in Disney’s tales). Thank god I speak English.
    Now I’m on my way to acquiring my personal style in game, because it’s a do or die situation for me now.
    I know there’s not really a point in my post, but I just wanted to share.

      1. A spinal disc herniation. Followed by some other ones like two shoulder tendinitis.
        Take care.

        1. Disc herniation can get better. Shoulder tendinitis too. Eccentrically load the shoulders. Break up your routine between rehab exercises and a controlled program. If you have a redicuopathy they too can get better. In the end stacking on weight makes it harder to get better. Even of u have to only paddle board in a pool do it.

        3. I have had three of those. Don’t despair. You don’t need weights (I can’t do them either). Look up a couple of books on bodyweight training (Brooks Kubik has one, also Naked Warrior by Pavel). Second, the most important thing is your nutrition. Here’s what NOT to eat: grains, legumes, sugar, alcohol, anything processed. Hard at first but you will get there in the end. One step at a time. I lost 20 lbs and went from 20% to 10% bodyfat. I am also stronger that I was when I lifted weights.
          You can do it.

        4. Thank you, englishbob. This is really good advice and I will look into. it. My brother does something like that and he’s really doing well. Too bad we don’t talk to each other anymore!

        5. +1 on the disk injury getting better. I’ve got two ruptured disks in my lumbar spine that pinched the nerve root to my left leg. I had to work hard and smart to make it manageable…but I did.
          I still take pain meds occasionally, but I can function and am back to my athletic self.
          I disagree with not lifting weights however, as you have to truly strengthen those stabilizing muscles. You just have to work up to it.
          I started a blog about my experience with this injury and should have my protocol up in a week or so. I write about the psychological shit and side effects that come with an injury like this.
          http://Www.thefireandtheforge.wordpress.com

        6. What I mean with weight is that if u have a disc issue and you put on weight( fat) it compresses the discs more. And makes it harder to lose weight. It starts a terrible cycle.

    1. I would have trouble believing that but then I lived with my old roommate. Super nice dude and a super talented musician, but couldn’t get tail at all. It blew my mind.
      It’s tough to remember, but 10-12 years ago I was like that until I got some self-confidence and then realized that scoring was pretty easy (and I’m in no way a player). It wasn’t until these past couple years that I found “game” and the writers who were putting into words what I knew to work. Some dudes just struggle.

    2. There’s no reason to be scared bro. You just need to realize that not everyone is the same socially. I mean, of course game will be easier for someone that is nautrally loose-lipped. Jimi Hendrix was VERY socially awkward, which is why he was always ‘medicated’ during his shows. If it wasn’t for his Rockstar game, I dout he would have gotten any tang. Same with Keanu Reeves.

  10. I sense this is something that must be said about Game as a concept – somewhat of an unwritten rule:
    If a man centers it solely on the pursuit of pussy, ultimately it will FAIL – regardless of the number of notches achieved.
    On the other hand, if one centers it on self-improvement in ALL areas of life, to make oneself the best man one can be, balance and fulfillment can be achieved – and better interactions with better women as a side-effect of that.
    Do not misunderstand it. Life in general can get frustrating at times, sure. It can be disheartening. And even downright fucking unbearable. I have been through it; in many senses I am still far from where I want to be. But anger, stagnation and loss of belief isn’t an option to life.

    1. Amen.
      Now if some of these mouth breathing PUA’s understood this we could get somewhere.

      1. Most PUA’s just want the easy access to pussy at whatever cost. Even if it is at their own cost. Hence they would rather become dark triads than get their own shit together.
        Does it get them pussy? Yes.
        Is it worth sacrificing integrity for it? No.

  11. To James – When the chick handed me her phone I would’ve called myself to get her number.

    1. after reading his take on it I don’t think it would have mattered, the only save he could have made would have been rejecting facebook, and getting her number (establishing dominance). once he accepted though she would have ignored him just like on FB.

      1. I would’ve skipped the facebook and gone right for the number. It would’ve flipped the script and let her know I didn’t want stupid friend status. Maintaining frame and showing dominance = win, I might’ve still been in the red but I wouldn’t be in the friendzone either. Walking away with nothing is a more favorable outcome then getting hosed to feed her lame ass attention whoring.

        1. Agreed, in fact when I think about it almost anything you do when you interact with a woman (positively not negatively) feeds their attention whoring so the mindset he needed was feeding her ego on HIS terms. sure he might go up and talk to her, but if he sealed the deal he got more out than she did.

    1. Roosh, you’re such a courteous blog host, if you see this, maybe consider making fat-shaming week an event that occurs with a greater frequency. The dire situation that the Western world currently faces, merits this sort of dramatic action.

    2. So funny when the female is the one getting rejected haha. What bugs me is there are still some sucka ass simps on that article defending her rather than calling her out on her BS.

      1. Seriously, after just a quick glance of that comment thread, it seemed as if not one person was calling out the elephant in the room. If a man is even slightly out of shape, his pussy intake will be dramatically impacted in both quality and quantity.

        1. Only mention of her weight I saw was from a white knight complaining about the negative comments on her weight. Typical.

        2. “If a man is even slightly out of shape…” Not just out of shape, but also a couple inches too short. I have no sympathy for fat women when women judge men on things that are completely beyond their control.

    3. “Most of the time I’d rather watch Hulu in bed with my highly-intelligent cat . . .”
      . . . and Sara Lee.
      Well, at least the cat is intelligent.
      ” . . . perhaps I have way bigger fish to fry . . .”
      Cetaceans aren’t fish. What a maroon.

  13. The Albanian girl was a miss. Maybe she’ll hit next time.
    The gf estranged for 11 years – there’s no way she’ll be the same. If it was regular pattern sex with her 11 yrs ago, then wipe any expectations of her now living up to being anything more than a ‘fun hole’ to fuck. After 11 yrs on the loose, that puss has rolled in the mud and had it out with beasts and creatures both GREAT AND SMALL amen. She’s probably tasted her own gender too. If she can be a friend AT THE LEAST, then have her back like a dikey but chummy friend. Tell her that you’ve redefined her now as your main wing dyke. What I mean is this: Take her to clubs and have her wing girls for you. She could zone in on the bi third wheel to add, but don’t commit yourself to her exclusively. Keep the camp open. Never commit exclusively to any used woman. She’s mud that needs re-molded and you are a sculptor. Neither are YOU god, nor do you worship your own sculptures.
    Just trying to lay down some patriarchal frame work. Too many guys throw their dick into the hat and it turns out to be a bottomless pussy. I’m as pro polygamy as I am anti government.

  14. To Bruce: I have no Game. As a teenager I was terrible with women. While never becoming a Casanova there were three things that smoothed things out with women, and even with men – ie. business dealings and the like.
    .
    First was that I joined the army reserve. There comes a point where you will be thrown into a position of leadership and authority and you can either fuck it up or learn from it. Once you become comfortable dressing down an incompetent guy twice your size, chit chatting with women becomes easier.
    .
    Second was that I joined a rock band. Performing requires you to get over your inhibitions. Plus, it attracts chicks.
    .
    Third, and more directly on point with your suggestion about Dale Carnegie: I joined the debate team in university. You learn to think on your feet, apply critical thinking, and even bullshit to an audience. If you are not currently attending, who cares? Go to your local college or university and tell them you want in. You won’t be able to debate competitively, but in my experience, debaters will welcome you to attend their meetings and in-house training sessions and informal debates among their own members.

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