Girls

The Death Of Night Game

147 Comments

This podcast explores the decline of nightlife (bars and clubs) from 2001 to 2017. I first establish a baseline of the absurdly low level of game you needed in the past to succeed compared to what you need now, followed by an analysis of 15 observations that show how we have objectively suffered a decline. I close out the podcast by discussing how to solve the problems posed by a declining nightlife to still maintain a healthy sex life, which include being industrious and open-minded to alternate forms of game.

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147 thoughts on “The Death Of Night Game”

  1. This was a great podcast. I much prefer day game over night game for the same reasons. The girls guard is down if you meet her where she works or in the store.

  2. For those getting traction with night game, what adjustments have you made to your game? Answers would be different by age, male in his early 20s wouldn’t know what game was like for male in his late 30s.

    1. Go to different places. Hopefully you live in a big city. I live half way between Boston and nyc. Guys get stuck going to the same 2 or 3 bars.

      1. Does mid-size city in america like boston provide enough critical mass to generate fission? Do you end up in a pub like the TV show Cheers, more males than females, with females playing their phone half the time.

  3. @Roosh, thanks for the podcast. The observations & analysis are straightforward and practical.
    Night game ? No more ! Not worth of my time and given the risk involved.

      1. Good question, It’s actually more than the costs ! @Kraa! clearly “expanded” the “risks” !

  4. I heard the podcast last week. Good observations. Nightgame =
    – entree fees or standing in line to be allowed entrance or not by some doorguy who has the IQ of a fruitfly.
    – expensive drinks.. or alcohol at all (don’t wanna pay for neither alcohol or sugary drinks)
    – loud noise.
    – a lot of competition.
    – girls on their guard.
    Not a place to find an easy lay, let alone find quality women or even a longtime partner. It should be made clear to women that going out to a club is for whores. Because: it is. Imho. I stopped doing it at 25. And there is nothing to miss about the social akwardness (standing in a club pretending you have a good time) and the points above.

    1. I chuckled at the podcast because none of this was new to an old timer such as myself from the 80’s. Did you ever see A Night at the Roxbury or the SNL parody of the club scene? It’s not a scene for whores, so to speak, but usually cock teasers who get off the free drinks and attention. One aging woman even told me that after she hit her wall (not that she was honest enough about what she was doing to put it in those terms), she’d go singles nights in order to get male attention because she was such a low value asset, that men wouldn’t even approach her during happy hour.

      1. I know a woman like that. In her fifties. Living alone, whoring for attention at my gym. No man touches her with a 10 ft pole. You could bang her the same night if you wanted. If she behaved like an adult woman she would certainly have a man. Probably be married. No man wants a cocktease, no man wants a spinster.

        1. Hehehe. In a discussion on prostitution recently, someone told me that no father wants a daughter whose a prostitute. I was thinking that a prostitute is probably better than many spinsters I dated because they seemed to have serious hangups on sex.
          Unlike the cock carousel we hear about here were women are the monday appointment of the local alpha bad boy, I commonly encountered career women who largely were nuns up until their early 30’s and then wanted to marry and have kids before their clock ran out. But being so out of practice in emotionally relating to men other than an office environment, it was like dating an android out of a scifi movie.
          I think you’re wrong about “no man” wanting them. I’m sure there was a line of blue pill men who would want them, but these women’s frigidness due to years of lack of sexual consummation from men was a tall order to overcome. They pulled out a lot of shit tests that would crash a blue pill approach. I could have overcome it but by then, I didn’t need to.
          Of course, that was back in the 90’s when things were a lot different. Most women didn’t have blue hair, covered with tats, or piercings in their face.

      1. Haha! So please educate me!
        FYI, to Roosh: The Trump International Hotel bar, which is quite luxurious, has a happy hour for full glasses of wine for 5 bucks.

        1. i think you would find it hard to find a beer for under $8 in a bar here, ive paid $11 for a jack and coke at pubs that arent even very good. i think $9 for a shot + your mixer is pretty standard in Australia these days. bottle shop, most 6 packs are $20 give or take, doesnt matter if thats imported or what.
          Cigarettes, which i think should be illegal anyway, cheapest pack is probably $16 all the way upto about $60 for a rolling tobacco or pack of a generic econo-brand 50’s.

        2. Alcohol is usually expensive in the states as well and the money maker for most places which is why I rarely order drinks when I’m out. The price I listed for Trump Hotel was for “happy hour.” Do they have that down under? It’s pretty standard for most places.
          I think the way the bars/restaurants make money is that they assume that most men can’t “close the deal” before 7PM so they’ll make tons of money from the hardcore “alky” crowd that drinks like a fish outside of happy hour. In addition, happy hour prices usually only apply at the bar so couples at tables (the man, hehe) pay full price.
          Regarding cigs. I hate ’em and I don’t buy them for my friends because I don’t like contributing to them killing themselves but I could pick up 3 cartons fully legal for flying into the states from Poland or Ukraine (especially Ukraine), Marlboro, for about $4 a carton. I totally made smokers’ days if I gave them as gifts but I don’t do it. I just don’t like seeing them puff up these nasty things.

        3. yea there are happy hours, a beer if probably $5 i doubt they would discount spirits though, which i prefer. I hardly go out anymore anyway, between finding people to go out with and keeping my weight under control, i try to drink as little as possible.
          You should buy/recommend your friends a copy of Allen Carrs easy way to stop smoking. It helped me get that shit under control and the change in thinking about nicotine it gives someone is pretty important to understand i think. But they probably wouldnt read it anyway, ive given it to a few people, i slap them over the head with it everytime i see them, but they dont read it.

      2. I’m European. Never paid more than 5 euro’s for glass of coke but I’ve heard of 16 euro cokes. Don’t know why anyone would pay so much for a glass of water with some sugar in it, but they do.

  5. Since about 1998, the club scene dramatically declined. Back late 90s, early 2000s, the club scene was like a white college scene with some decent females. There was actually a chance you could meet a girl that was a professional and came from a decent background. What changed:
    1. The welfare generation was coming of age around then. The black population that was popping out gang bangin welfare kids in the 80s grew into a huge population of teens and early 20s black welfare products. Overnight, I remember the fun club scene that resembled something out of LA turned into a gang bangin rap video. More and more black “youth” were showing up at clubs, chasing the white girls out and of course shooting started happening. From then on, the club scene just turned into a hip hop drive by shooting scene.
    2. Professional white girls started only going out on weeknights for happy hours at bars in trendier areas. No more dance clubs. If you wanted the possibility of meeting a white professional girl from a decent background, your best bet anymore is to go out on a Thursday evening to a happy hour at some sushi trendy martini place.
    3. The internet dating taboo was lifted. The same girls that were calling men losers for using dating sites to try and meet someone are now using dating sites themselves in lieu of bars.
    I’m a much older man now, and still go out once in a while. I look young than my actual age and I’m in decent shape, so a girl might think I’m a little younger until she probably starts talking to me. But a couple of weeks I went out and some 20 something year old chic asked me to dance. Grinded with her for a bit on the dance floor. And I got to “small talk chat” with some hot looking group of females as well. It’s all tittly-winks, nothing that would result in phone numbers or dates. But all of the females seem to come from low rent backgrounds today that one would find in either country bar/clubs or other types of dance clubs.
    On a good night, I might get to dance or chat with a young girl briefly. Even if they are hot looking, they always seem low-rent types. And they tend to act like it’s a dating site. They’ll small talk back and forth even if they are the ones to initiate conversation or dancing, but if you act interested or pursue them for something more, they back off and disappear. So a couple weeks ago when I danced with the girl and when I chatted with the group of hot girls, I just acted like I didn’t give a fuck and didn’t pursue anything. Just kept to myself and walk around the club. If a girl wants something more, she’ll get really chatty with ya and she’ll let ya know it.

    2. This: “And they tend to act like its a dating site”
      The real world and that alt-universe where women are all empowered 10’s ordering from the sushi menu of men, have nearly merged.
      The low-investment / high expectation dynamic that plagues dating sites has crept into real life. Looking at the (d)evolution of dating sites, we can see where this is going and its not good. e.g. Too many unattractive guys liking you on Tinder? try Bumble! The swipe rules; women are hitting the bar in the Skinner box for their ego pellets while starving themselves of anything actually nutritious.
      Top your point, is getting increasingly difficult to find women who are not so far in that they can still be led out with tight game. Not just game, but there is the matter of the escalating emotional pull that is required to wake them from their sleepwalking.
      It is akin to getting the casual heroin addict to put down the needle and take a jog with you. And then there’s the problem as you mention: declining quality. So it just isn’t worth the energy.
      The night scene and club-like venues amplify the problems but the social-cultural decay has permeated everything at this point. There are no drug-free zones. My ghey yoga studio used to be a great little spot for some low-key day-game. No more. Class ends and within 30 seconds they have all flocked to their phones like goldfish after the flakes.
      Some interesting “studies” coming out re: smartphone use and erosion of social cohesion, empathy levels, quality of social interaction, anxiety, and on. We can’t underestimate the impact of this kind of technological intervention on human relations.
      And people wonder why 1/4 women are on mental health meds. I swear, if I have to deal with one more pill-popping anorgasmic emotional vampire…

      1. haha like goldfish after the flakes! Man, while I am not properly in the game at the moment, the way this “social decay” is headed makes me wonder in 5 years if I’ll have to join the amish or move somewhere that’s a few decades behind..

  6. GhostRider made some good observations. The night scene is lame. Regular bars at night on the weekends dont seem as fluid as they used to be either. The dating sites have also corrupted women to making a 6-7 feel like they are a 9-10 on the value scale.

  9. The smart guys who aren’t already getting laid on Friday and Saturday nights working out and making money. Invest in yourself and eventually you will never have to play the Nightclub Casino again.

    1. You make it sound like anyone can just start a business and make money (Kiyosaki fan?). It is increasingly tough to find something truly original that won’t flop on you.

      1. Well dropping $15 a pop for drinks, staying out til 3 or 4 in the morning and waking up the next day with a hangover just for a shot at some mediocre looking club skank certainly isn’t a recipe for success.
        If people truest enjoy going out to clubs, go for it, all the power to them. However, I feel like going through this ritual just to have a shot at getting laid is redundant.

        2. Yes, the late nights and alchohol doesn’t make for concentration in the daylight hours to build up your empire nor give you a firm, toned body.

  10. I’ m sure that you can easily find some grandpa able to explain to you that nighlife was so much better way back to Woodstock. Free sex, no condoms needed, bad girls with very good education, good dope…

  11. Decent night game can still be found at some college bars. There are a few here in the SEC that still attract dimes and potential LTRs.

  12. Most guys can’t pull of night game, but some can. Most girls are out with each other in packs-you can get numbers, but pulling one back to your place on the same night is tough. If you want to use nightlife as part of your game, line up the girls beforehand.

    1. Great comment. I think I have never pulled out strictly from night game. And when I did, it was always in conjunction with previous texting game or social circle.

      1. Tight night game is when you fuck a stranger girl just outside the club in summer time.

        1. Only a success if she doesn’t know your name, phone number, address, place of business, or license plate number.

      2. Many, many years ago I successfully pulled from a dance club (back then we actually called them discos). I was so shit faced drunk that I couldn’t remember anything about it, but I woke up (fully clothed, but in my bed) with her number on a napkin in my pocket. I decided nothing ventured nothing gained, and called her up. she was a red hot double D brunette with a waist you could your hands around and have your finger tips touch. One thing led to another and she eventually became my fist ex-wife. BTW, she was a 100% feminist bitch. But I was young and dumb and full of cum, so I couldn’t see that until way too late. since then I have known down in my soul that failing to pick up a woman at a dance club is way better than succeeding.

    2. I have not been to a nightclub in a few years, it seemed to had already died back in the early 2000s. If you can give the whole pack the tingles then its fairly easy to pull your choice away, or at least it used to be. Having an attractive girl come with you as bait used to work well also. It’s amazing how women are wired, I used to get blatantly approached when I was still married and out with the wife, drove her nuts but also made her wet for me more. Weird creatures they are. As an experiment, wear a wedding band out sometime and notice how much more you get approached, or rather they don’t put up the bitch shield, but still want some action lol.

  13. The music they play at these venues is so terrible you pretty much have to get near blackout drunk just to stand being inside them.
    The person who invents trendy noise cancellation headphones with a two way radio built in them will be a millionaire.

      1. I often thought about this as well and how Americans tend to be loud talkers compared to Europeans. Americans tend to yell across a table to get above the ambient noise of others doing so while Europeans sit closer to each other and lean in and whisper. Going from a bar in Poland to one in the states is like going from a Chuck E Cheeses to a French restaurant.

        1. Roosh, if you have the time, you have to watch this classic Soviet film about a young soldier who largely does this via the Soviet railway system:
          http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066351/
          “Sem nevest efreytora Zbrueva”
          In the very least, it’s a great opening line for you to chat up Russian girls into classic cinema. 🙂

  15. “another part of your personality comes out” at clubs. This is true. The old clubs had an atmosphere that you could find no where else, not on the street, the bus, work, and a workaday stiff or rambler who avoided clubs would pretty much remain who they were. Club pursuit builds personality that you didn’t know you had. In a club, you concoct yourself as needed and you find the personality you have is what you create.
    I forget who told me clubs were where you go to “get pussy”. Given that, I was thus presented with a problem or goal to solve. The booze helped somewhat and boy oh boy did I tap into the personality part of my brain. I once did a round in the club saying “are you here alone or with a group of people?” When the girl answered, I’d interrupt them mid sentence with me saying to them “I swear I have to switch around my personality so much in here, it’s like I am MY OWN GROUP OF PEOPLE.” I got giggles and one girl inhaled her drink but was stalking me afterwards unbeknownst to me. Outside she appeared and pinned me against the wall and began kissing me and reaching into my pants saying “you are fucking crazy”. It’s funny because she was a psychology major.
    One thing that slipped my mind back then was being aware of the forces and deciding motives that drove the women to go to the clubs that is lacking today. It wasn’t the chicken wings. The smokingest women just seemed to gravitate to the clubs. To me, I took for granted they’d always be there and looking tops. They didn’t come for the pool tables or to play darts, no I believed sincerely that they were there to get fucked simple, and me believing that notion helped me alot to read their minds somewhat.
    Today there’s no effort on the part of women to clean up, dress up and go out smelling good when they’re fat and indoors and tooling with hook up apps. It’s so much simpler for a lazy women to go online and have the garbage man come by and bring them some blunts for a doggie fuck in a filthy smelly apartment.

  16. Best clubs to get laid are in Vegas. Clubs in your regular hometown are really not worth going to, but in Vegas, girls go to get loose and find some dick that they’ll never see from again after the weekend.

      2. Which clubs did you go to? Vegas clubs are full of women, at least the ones I went to. I always went to XS or Marque mainly.

        1. Last six times in recent years was for two work seminars and four bachelor parties it was Tao x 2, Marquee x 2, Hakassan, and Surrender. I usually stay at the Hard Rock because it’s fairly cheap and still decent with easy access to the strip. I’ve pulled a decent tourist Brazilian girl from Hakassan and a solid blonde local from Marquee. My night game is pretty damn good (day/internet game is non-existent). The ratios are always noticeably terrible. The pool parties are sausagefests too.

        2. Tao is a horrible club. Way too small inside and overly packed like a sardine can…. although I also did pull a cute Brazilian tourist back to my room from there 😎
          I guess it matters what time of the year you go to Vegas. I always went Labor Day and Memorial Day weekends.

        3. Dont sleep on club Ommia in vegas. Ive always was able to grind on black, asian, and white women in that club. XS always has ton of good lookers. Also Drais nightclub is decent as well. Ive went at end of april and mid-july. Memorial weekend might have to check that out gotta be more live on holiday weekends. Anybody trying to check out vegas memorial weekend lmk cause I may go. Ill buy u a drink if u a rok reader too lol

        4. How is Marquee? Ive only been too Hakkasun out of those but I heard decent things about Marquee

  17. In my experience night life is like being a hunter. There are good hunting grounds and shtty hunting grounds. You have to always be moving to find new venues to hunt. In the last few years I’ve had this experience of going to bars/clubs/lounges and the ratios are great. After a few weeks the word is out and it becomes a sausagefest every night. I constantly look for new places opening, reopening. Never get comfortable going to the same damn club/bar

  18. LMAO Your original night game approach. THAT WAS TIME TOO!
    About your point on kisses: Im the same way. If you lock lips it was a successful night.

  19. As much as we love to ridicule m2f trannies here you’ve got to admit that there was never a better place or time to be born a girl and a worse place and time to be an average man. If I had to reincarnate but got to choose I’d definitely choose to be a female.

    1. But what remains is: women leech of men. They did when marriage was the only way to get pussy for him and to have security for her. And nowadays women have the state as husband, who provides them with financial and physical security, paid for by men. But then without the reciprocity of respect and sex. Indeed: we lose. But nature doesn’t agree with this. Look at Japan, look at Germany and a whole lot of other countries. Welfare states will collapse since their labor force is shrinking. Because marriage isn’t an advantage anymore. Thus they import low IQ folk who will never pay taxes.

      1. I think the shrinking labour market is exacerbated by two things: Cheap labour force from the 3rd world and automation. I’m not sure how low IQ folk can avoid paying taxes though and those are witheld at the source in my country. you never get to collect your gross wage, only net.

        1. How they can avoid paying taxes? Welfare. More than half (a lot more actually) of them are on state support.

    2. “you’ve got to admit that there was never a better place or time to be born a girl and a worse place and time to be an average man”
      Thats correct. But I would stay male anyway

    3. I just had a daughter and I was a bit relieved that she wouldn’t face the same battles I did but at the same time, who knows what’s going to happen in 20 years time?
      If you’ve ever seen Back to the Future, they predicted we’d have hoverboards by now. i don’t consider smart phones to be much of an improvement. During the 80’s, we had USENET. 🙂
      But we are on the verge of a major cultural shift as several chickens come home to roost, as the idiom goes, and times may very well be different in 2 decades similar to how the 70’s and 80’s were so much different from each other as Marty McFly observed.

      1. BTTF also predicted that we’d have time travelling DeLoreans in the 80s. Oh well…

    4. I don’t know…….a woman has 15-20 years of attention. They are taught that they are special princesses. Once the 20 years is up, they are either in a house of cats, or married to some guy that is physically unable to make them happy. A beta will serve his master, but that won’t make her happy. A woman needs to respect her man. An alpha could be respectable to her, but as long as she believes the feminist lie, she won’t be happy being in constant competition with a guy who won’t take any of her shit.

        1. Excellent diagram. I drawn this out for my twelve year old son about a month ago to tell him not to get worked up about social problems in school

      3. I believe it’s actually closer to 35-40 years of attention because of extreme thirst and hypergamy. It is better in my book than the life of an underdog beta who has had zero attention his entire life.

    5. You may feel that way sometimes, just remember that women get it worse in the long term.

  20. Valid points but Daytime is even worse than NG, no alcohol to loosen them up, no music, no dim lights, they are too self conscious and on guard during the day, resting bitch faces comes standard, earpods in their ears, noses buried in iphones, fb, tinder, you name it…if DG is truly better than NG then we are royaly fckd.
    I remember back in late 90s and early 200s chicks used to go out to get picked up, exchange numbers, make out, get laid.. Now its all power trips, actin smart and tough in clubs, Tindering and facebooking while out on fri or sat night. Ratios are horrible now, 70% 30% m f is normal, yes there are guys who can still do well in such harsh environments but man, you really have to have solid game and looks to do it consistently and you are not competing with other dudes at the bar like in the good old days, now you compete with tens of good looking dudes she matched on tinder that day, and every girl that goes clubbing and bars has fb and tinder account.
    I was on a tinder date not long ago and this bird said how ridiculously easy is to get a date for a girl, she actually stopped goin out because her needs are met on tinder and fb.
    I can see clubs and bars becoming obsolete in near future , those who can hook up online will stop going out, that is all women and top tier guys will be too busy meeting their matches while clubs will become asian style joints, loud music, alcohol, hookers and horny guys.
    Uber destroyed taxi industry, tinder destroyed nightclubs

    1. Like with real estate, perhaps the market will adjust and it will require a FED bailout to keep it going. Explanation: Real estate can sometimes appear to go up forever until the exuberance (as the FED chairman put it) goes out and then things drop down to the bottom unless the whole society invests to keep the “too big to fail” institutions from crashing except in this case, there is no black hole full of money around to do so.
      Sure, a “cute” woman can match up to a 100 guys on tinder but the top 10 she’s interested in probably are hooking up with at least another 10 women themselves that beat her. She’ll be pump and dumped. This is nothing new: similar things happened back about 20 years ago when internet dating came out with similar ratios and the women became frustrated that their higher expectations weren’t met and simply dropped out. But now… where can they drop out to?
      In the meantime, a lot of chickens are coming home to roost so to speak. Back in the 90’s, a career women who decides to just drop out of match.com and become a single mother by choice might have been able to afford it but how many millennial women now can afford to pay off their student loans, a massive mortgage AND childcare all on their own? And with social media, there’s not too much hiding for them except in the case of absence: A woman bragging on facebook she became a single mother by choice then drops off of facebook. Women are very keen about such departures and will sense that there’s a disturbance in the force, so to speak.
      Finally, here’s a snippet of old timer wisdom: Most women can enjoy sex just as much as men, but most of them feel guilt about it. If you suddenly had the choice of a woman to bang a dozen hot members of the opposite sex and they dumped you later, you’d be quite happy with it but most women who ride the cock carousel think of themselves as “exploited” even if the guys are supermodels. And the alpha males also have a hard time in that even if they do easily get a 100 lays with the effort we make to pick up a loaf of bread at the supermarket, there’s the 1/100 chick out there who goes “bunny boiling” on them and takes them down. I chuckled over Dawson Stone’s post that he paid for a hotel room for a girl who was disappointed in a sexual encounter simple to avoid her cutting him up in the middle of the night.

      1. You sound old. Millennial chicks feel no sense of guilt about sex, and they are ok with the idea of sharing top tier males. The internet is known for disruptive technologies that completely up-end the old way of doing things. Smartphones with tinder (social media apps) are game changers. Its not cyclical like interest rates.

        1. I AM old. Not super old but old by millennial standards. 🙂
          I’m glad I didn’t come of age in this decade, but just as not all 1960’s women were hippies (most were largely mainstream like the secretarial pool of MadMen), I can’t really say what the typical bourgeoisie millennial woman is like and I’d like your opinion.
          We’re all familiar with the blue haired harpies that went to the women’s march but even so, are they are minority of millennial women or representative? Are most of them tatted up and covered with face piercings? Are many of them going “ghetto”, so to speak, and sharing top tier “baby daddies”?
          What’s neat for us old timers is I recognize how time flies. 8 years seems like an eternity to a millennial but for me, it’s just a set of tires from costco. 🙂 So a millennial woman goes from graduating college to middle age spinsterhood in the blink of an eye. Are they happy with their years of being alpha male notches?
          As an aside about the women’s march, it’s amusing to me that this goes against the narrative of that march where women were enraged that Trump said that his alpha male status entitled him to grabbing “p*ssy” because so many women desired him. Wouldn’t liberated women be comfortable with a man such as him being plain and honest about reality?

        2. Feminism isn’t about equality anymore, if it ever was, its about female primacy. Female sexuality is celebrated, male sexuality is shamed.

        3. Old timer observation: It (seeming) was back in the 70’s when the feminist movement was pushing for the ERA. The ERA ultimately failed meaning that the game didn’t work: Phylas Schlafly, a true hero, put feminism on the spot by arguing that if the ERA passed, women would have been subject to military conscription. Of course, the feminists secretly wanted a constitutional amendment for goodies such as “equal pay for equal work” (quotas for women, higher pay for fewer hours for career women, etc) but couldn’t say so. It was a bluff that worked.
          So to put on a position PR spin, for a brief time there were career women like Mary Tyler Moore who offered to pay for dinner, let their men carry purses, and happily had househusbands. Most didn’t want to walk the walk so they played a very special game called the “fake offer” that’s largely only in the US of A: They’d go out on a date and offer to pay half even if they liked the guy. If he accepted, she’d dump him but not tell him why. I was honestly puzzled by this for about a half dozen dates or so until I realized they were playing a mean game with me. I wouldn’t do that to another human being which really caused me to lose a lot of respect for them. If I offer to pay for dinner, mate, I don’t hold it against you for doing so. It’s Man Code 101.
          So these women pretended to support equality but really didn’t and then after the ERA barfed, the “fake offer” continued much like a vestigial organ, like an appendix. American women (at least in my era) continued to do it even if they didn’t understand why.
          But the rest of the time, feminism was always about a goodie grab encouraged by chivalrous white knights and marxist/crony capitalist types. Most if I buy them a beer (not on a date) will even admit it to me. Those that can’t admit it are like spoiled children in a continuous temper tantrum: They learn that screaming gets daddy to buy them things so they learn to continually put on a hissy fit until they don’t know why they’re angry but always are. And yes, I’ve seen parents who actually did this and it messed the daughters up. Badly.

        4. The best question is: who bought all those books “50 shades of grey”?
          I can tell you, men didn’t, yet millions upon millions were sold. In the US alone. The women who complain about Trump probably did buy them. And then they cry when he said “grab m by the pussy”. Having double standards is normal for women.
          It’s a good question to ask any female who criticizes men for being sexual of dominant; “did you read Fsog? If you did, shut it”.

        5. Feminism’s goal is to not only shame, but also restrict it. With consent-laws. Any presence of masculinity has to be criticized. You know what ‘man-spreading’ is? To me it’s just rude to take up a lot of space, feminists call it an aggressive act.

    2. As resistant as I am to online stuff sometimes one just has to be pragmatic if it needs to happen.

    3. Day Game works for university students where you are surrounded all day long by single females close to you in age and near 50/50 ratio. Day Game is also good if you have some job that puts you in circulation with single females. But that’s not me so relying on Day Game would be stoopid, like hoping to bump into by accident one non-ugly female a month.

      1. Day game at Universities depends entirely on the size of the school you go to. If it’s a large public university than you can get away with approaching every now and again without getting a bad reputation. At a smaller private university you will quickly gain “creeper status” after relatively few approaches, especially if you’re a beginner. Shaking that reputation off later will also prove to be nearly impossible ruining your chances of picking up girls through social circle. Better off going to a another University where nobody knows you if you want to cold approach during the day in all honesty.

  21. I suppose there are still a few places in the US where you can get decent women by nightgame – particularly in college bars in cities with many female students from elsewhere, from diverse backgrounds.. (cities like Miami, Atlanta and Boston come to mind.)
    However, for the rest of the Western world, nightgame has been dead since the early 2000s. Economic recession, overcrowding and the rise of dating websites finished nightgame off.
    I saved the money, traveled abroad and found decent women elsewhere.

  22. A short post where I lay down a bit of knowledge and then walk away.
    Go to a country-western music club where live country bands play. The ratio of women to men normally is skewed heavily in favor of men (meaning, a whole lot of women), and most of the women are feminine and pleasant and decent looking, as opposed to the catty “stylish” bitches in city clubs who won’t give you the time of day and only wish to dance in herds with “girlfriends”.
    That is all.
    *drops mic, walks off stage*

    1. Agreed. Another venue often unused are more traditional dance clubs and classes that teach samba, foxtrot, etc. Usually filled with cougars but a lot of lovely young women as well that outnumber the men 4:1!!! In the very least, you’ll pick up dance moves to better impress women in other venues.

      1. Very good observation. I’ve heard a lot of good things about single men who go to classes to learn to dance traditional “hot” dances like you mention.

        1. Unless you are trying something funky like the Tango, Salsa or Polka, it is pretty much all the same. I will just do the standard country swing and follow the beat.

      2. Most white men don’t want to dance, really. If all you do it for is pussy, you are cheating yourself.

    2. Curious on the skill set needed to do that. My wife and I go country swing dancing often, but we were engaged prior to taking that class. Never tried it as a single guy. I see some of the guys that don’t know what they are doing, and it isn’t flattering. Others will sit on the sidelines and try to look cool, but you can tell they are not enjoying themselves.

      1. Not sure that you need a skill set to walk into a CW club. Heh.
        Dancing though, yeah.

      2. I learned to dance when I was younger and I didn’t fret about not looking cool because usually the women were hungry for dance partners and were happy to let me practice with them.

        1. I am making sure my kids learn enough to feel comfortable on the dance floor. Definitely a useful tool once they get into their teen years.

    3. Shhhhhhh. Don’t give up untapped resources full of Daisy Duke booty shorts and cowgirl hats. And when a slow song comes on, there are inevitably several cute girls frowning because they don’t have a dance partner. Go be her partner.

      1. We’ve had them come and go in my area. The current “big deal” place is chock full of really, really, really hot girls Friday and Saturday nights after about 8pm. At a minimum, a 70%/30% ratio in your favor, and of the 30% males there, if you’re wearing a cowboy hat, you’re probably one of 2 people in the joint doing so (most “country boys” wear ball caps now for some reason). Let me tell you what, a muscular, tall, nice looking guy in a cowboy had can pass his phone around without saying a word and have twenty numbers in five minutes in these kind of places.

        1. I’ve seen a few guys still trying to do the curved-bill-fishhook thing. They’re also the ones who drink Natty Light straight from the pitcher, so that helps the ratio some more since they voluntarily remove themselves from the game. Wearing a cowboy hat always works. Put on a nice pair of matching boots and you won’t be lonely.

        2. Boots, boot cut jeans, and either a nice well fitting t-shirt OR a classy button down shirt. You can also get the “t-shirt under a button down that’s unbuttoned” thing to work sometimes, but that look has never interested me. It helps to roll up on a motorcycle too, heh (I made a hat holder that fits my bike, where I put my hat since it’s difficult to keep on at 65mph).

        3. That’s some outstanding advice right there. You can also go to a Goth club; no need to look Goth, it’s preferable to wear biker garb. When they play “Closer” by Nine Inch Nails (and they certainly will), you just walk out on the dance floor and find a woman you’d like to fuck for the evening. When the chorus comes around (“I want to fuck you like an animal, I want to feel you from the inside”) you look her right in the eyes and mouth the words to her. I added about twenty notches to my bedpost over the years doing that simple singalong, and it has yet to fail.

    4. Yes have found a few of those in Germany, would say more rock than country western but still a different scene to the mainstream.

  23. Nightclubs = a sweaty place full of drunk people and super loud crap music. I think I can do without it now.

    1. I never understood the appeal to the loudness. But then, I am an old fart. GET OFF MY LAWN!

        1. I like background music, but I still like to be able to carry on a conversation without yelling in peoples’ ears.

    2. The classic 90s night clubs are long gone and never coming back. It was easy to get pussy in those places, but even back then it was all about looks; the music was always too loud to talk to women. That’s why you gotta lift. Lifting got you chicks back in the day and it will get them for you now. Commit to the iron and you will never have to approach women; they will come running to offer themselves to you

  24. Although times have changed, Roosh touches on a lot of immutable truths that he believes are recent. In general, 30 years ago, club girls tended to also be snotty and spoiled, even cruel and spiteful. I’m surprised he found a good “ladies night” venue in Poland because Polish businesses tend to run a tight ship. Ladies night is usually a ripoff whereby for every woman they give a free drink to, they need two sausages to buy drinks at full price.
    I discovered within a half year that the club scene wasn’t for me. Even if I got laid, the amount of clown game I would have to put on just didn’t make it worth it. That sounds like sacrilege to some here that I would rather go home and tug myself than deal with a night with a vapid princess and even worse, feed her ego making her worse for the next guy. Roosh talks about how there’s little honor anymore in the club scene, but this is due to the whole club scene itself being one pussy begging festival. I personally paid it forward several times: I blew off potential lays to teach them a lesson and the shock value made it worth it. Try it yourself: Toss a fish back in the water every 5th time or so if for no other reason but to remind yourself that you don’t need them.
    Women have been getting less charming over the years not only due to game, but women in the workplace itself. The office doesn’t make most people more charming and in the past, women usually put in an effort to support their family via helping to cook, clean, comfort relatives and even read a book.
    So here’s the good news and bad news: The clubs have sucked and largely always have (for those of us alive). The decline is in the culture overall.

    1. Well said. It really won’t be until enough men treat women like they deserve to be treated that they will swallow their pride. A huge problem is the carousel for women is 15-35, while their opportunity for marriage is only 18-25. Many women simply miss the boat and not realize it. At 30, they see their mistake, but by then the damage is done. They go from snotty and prideful to desperate and bitter. “If you don’t take me at my worst, you don’t deserve me at my best” they say. Problem is, the convict with the neck tattoos took you at your best. You don’t have anything to offer now.
      21 and 22 were my clubbing years, about a year and a half. Not for me. Snotty sleazebags with nothing to offer. As thirsty as I was back then, I would not stoop to making a jackass out of myself to pick up some STD from these absolute worthless princesses. I suppose my thirst led me to an entirely different direction. I chose the religious route and got out of that scene.

      1. One mistake I made 30 years ago that I now retract is thinking that women would wise up. Some are and have but the fact is that most are even less conscious than the blue pill beta males. I’ll try this analogy regarding the biological clock tickers.
        When I was young, sometimes I blew off homework and classes and then tried to cram in studies two days before. It usually didn’t work, but I at least made an effort and understood my personal responsibility in slacking off and that I’d need to make it up. In theory, most 30 something women did have something to offer. If they could just keep their mouth shut about their sordid sexual past, SMILE, and perhaps just engage in some basic pleasantries such as out of a book on charm (perhaps the book “how to make friends and influence people”), and lower their standards just a bit, they’d land a whale.
        My wife’s friends from Eastern Europe including a widower are largely not afflicted with this problem. They put up a pleasant profile photo online, a reasonable bio, and sorted through a hundred emails or so and dated professional men who treated them decently. In other words, they did 1/10th the level of “game” us men are used to. American women in their prime become so amazingly lazy and entitled, however, that their social skills atrophy kind of like some astronaut up in space for a year. Even so, I chuckled at how my wife’s 43 year old friend complained that American professional men didn’t buy her lavish presents on dates even as in Ukraine and Russia, the men rarely have the resources to engage in such nonsense unless they have money for multiple mistresses. But these women learned to suck it up (“man up”) and compromise.
        As Roosh points out, there is some wisdom I should have exercised which included that if I was remaining the states, to “suck it up” and accept some of the sh*t that women engage in until you get laid because they CAN. It’s like a bad boss I had whereby if I had quit, it would have harmed my future employment chances. So I ate a big sh*t sandwich for 4 months. But afterwards… I was able to tell him off. It was quite satisfactory. Just as women really need to start developing some basic adult skills such as delayed gratification (which they are capable of!), we have to accept this as well. The problem is so many men get beaten down into “clown game” that they forget to turn the tables when it’s time.
        If I had a son, I would have advised him that the second he gets nookie, the tables are turned. If she leaves in disgust, what has the man lost? Whether you bang a chick 1 time, or a hundred, their notch is on your bedpost. (This is something I will advise my daughter about.) Adults who want a long term relationship know to not treat others like **** thinking karma won’t come back to harm them. As men, we know that sure, we can get away with being an a-hole most of the time but in that 1/100 event, some guy may decide to just say “eff it” and then where are you? I’m proud to say I’m that eff it kind of guy who managed to usually, with little loss to myself, told off people (men and women both) who thought they could be jerks and not get called out on it.
        Looking back, I could have eaten the *** with an American woman, paid for a dinner date and laughed at her jokes, didn’t overly offend her (but kept her on edge to pass her shit test that I’m not a wimp) and perhaps bagged a professional woman with a 6 figure income hopefully who managed to save money. My relative did a similar feat but he never got his balls back. But by the time I figured out this balancing act, I could marry foreign women and at that point, why bother? 🙂

        1. I suppose you could say I did similar, other than physically traveling, I traveled spiritually and transformed myself to what the “good girl” would want. Pity how the ‘goody goodies’ lag behind socially during the teens and early 20’s. Most guys give the sluts the attention, so women follow suit to get attention. It takes a rare women to see past that and hold out until the time is right. Any girl can make herself available for sex at any time when they are young. I don’t think they realize how big of a life decision they are making when they decide to slut around for the first time.

        2. “Most guys give the sluts the attention, so women follow suit to get attention.”
          I’ve heard that argument before and I don’t know if I understand what it means. Can you elaborate?
          For men, “attention” from women means that they’ll express an interest in us or go out with us and not give us a hard time. For women, “attention” means men asking them out and paying for dates. In the old days, it meant men not only asking women out, but also “wifing them up” and proposing. For old school women, “slutting” carried a negative connotation but many spoiled women in the 70’s and 80’s equated “sluts” with women being adult and forthright with men. This was the start of poisoned relations between men and women. If a woman asked out out for an old fashioned date because she liked you and you knew was just being honest and forthright, would you think of that as being a ‘slut?”
          Women ironically redefined slut as “easy” in that a woman who treated a man with honesty and even respect was a “slut” even if she never had sex with him while a woman sleeping around but getting men to buy her stuff and provide clown game attention was being “old fashioned”. It’s hilarious, isn’t it, how insane that sounds? But around the 70’s or so as the sexual revolution took off and women engaged in longer stints of bachelorettehood, this became the norm rather than the exception for single women.
          Note that many women even in the states are not messed up because they’re invisible. A majority of women marry in their early 20’s or so, don’t get divorced, and we never hear about them because they’re not on the dating scene (obviously) and the leftovers out there, the misfit toys, are what’s left.
          That’s not to say I regret waiting until 35 to marry and settle down. I know men who blue pilled in their early 20s and wifed up the first woman they laid, effectively, and now they’re divorced. That’s not the end of the world, but I’m happy with my tough maturation to my early 30’s that made me into a good provider and husband.

        3. To me, slut means sexually promiscuous. A girl that has many dates with many guys is not a slut as long as she keeps her undies on. Through high school and early 20’s (before marriage is considered), a girl who is sexually active gets more attention from guys who want the short term action. Not much sense for a guy to go through the hassle of pursuing some chaste girl if marriage is not on their radar screen.
          After finding religion, I still played the field. I took many girls out on dates and did my best to keep my planner booked. I just kept sex out of the picture.
          http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_R-WhB9g9eYk/TJDSr8V_ShI/AAAAAAAAAOg/VmMGTymAVcI/s1600/teachman

        4. “the fact is that most (women) are even less conscious than the blue pill beta males”
          Why wouldn’t they be? All the lies they are being told are supposedly in their favor.
          I really think the feminist lie is hurting women more than men. Women are coddled for 20 years, become prideful and spoiled. Then what? They are useless afterwords. They become resentful and unwanted. Guys, on the other hand, are challenged to magnify their skills during those 20 years. When the tables are turned and it is guys who have the higher SMV, they are at the same time have an appreciation of what it is like to be rejected. Guys have a much better recipe to be happier later in life.

        5. It’s sort of like a watered down version of the Hunger Games (or a better film, Battle Royale 🙂
          Nearly all the blue pill SJW’s I know (at least the version back in the 80’s and 90’s. I called them kiss ass pussies) got treated terribly by women. When women would praise the men on the forums for being such a good men and how much better they were than neanderthals such as me, I asked the women plain out: “So, will one of you sleep with one of these white knights then?” [Crickets chirping]
          I never had a stellar high SMV despite doing reasonably well at trying to improve it. I got up to a 6 and from there, marketed the best I could. Us men don’t expect to get “rich” from our SMV but a woman reasonably could. I find it amusing when we talk about hypergamy on this forum when western women tend to make terrible decisions: They get divorced for no reason (and cause all kinds of strife in their lives even with a good divorce settlement), they sleep with bad boys, etc.

        6. I disagree. A woman who dates a lot, and rinses men for free dinners, is a slut, even if she is a virgin. Back in the day a woman that dated a man she was not interested in marrying (not saying she was hell bent on it, but at least interested) was acknowledges to be a user, and avoided be decent society.

        7. Another reason you shouldn’t buy dinner for a first or second date. Users use. You will be able to tell fairly quickly.

        8. I dropped out of the scene decades ago when I was totally finished with American women (that was after the death of my second wife). I am now happily married for the past about 9 years to a Filipina that was a total virgin at 23, when we met (and up to the wedding night). She let me know just a week or two before our wedding that I was the first “boy” she had ever kissed. I was 52 at the time. She is a small village girl, 1,200 people where she grew up. Strict religious upbringing from a strongly patriarchal culture. Two years of 100% chaperoned dating. Tradition becomes tradition because it is what works.
          BTW, she had never set foot in a dance club in her life until I took her to one in Manila. Never worn high heels either.

        9. I remember you telling me this story. Kudos.
          Yeah, you need to find the right dating pool. You chose to travel, I chose religion.

  25. I listened about a week ago on public transport. Am also in my late 30s, was not gaming much in 2001 but was thoroughly into it for a few years from 2007 roughly.
    Anyway Roosh are right, if you are not naturally boisterous, the scene is maybe not for you especially in 2017. That is amazing in Washington DC six times a woman felt there was something sexist saying one prefers long hair. No, I have had the good fortune of not yet living anywhere quite as fucked up as America.
    Good point about nurturing a few niche bars in different cities, strange that one can work it in just a few isolated bars. Have also experienced something how one particular venue just never worked for me.
    Berlin parties too late for someone in their late 30s. Prefer a place where there’s people sipping cocktails in stylish little places by 8 – 10pm on a Friday or Saturday and dancing by 11, extracting round midnight. Have found a few niches around, nothing to really write home about though.
    It’s sad with the night game, I wonder who if anyone has gained? Are the clubs making more money, are women happier for it or is it basically a lose on all sides. It means clubs are now more like gambling joints or strip bars, places that are basically traps.

    1. Lots of club spaces have disappeared over the last few years in the mid-size american cities. The change to coffee shops, light food service, sports pubs with betas watching sports on TV and eating french fries.

  26. I’ve noticed this too. Ten years ago, it was still possible for me to get a coffee date. But now, it’s nearly impossible. You’re also much more likely to get in trouble for hitting on women if you’re gamma or omega, which is one big reason I did all I could to leave that status.
    I suspect the biggest impediment is that women have been brainwashed much more by feminism to be much more distrustful of men than they used to be. And this is by no means limited to blue-haired SJWs either.
    Roosh’s point about the ratio in clubs is interesting, and I suspect feminist distrust of men also leads girls to avoid clubs when they didn’t before, and to go out in tight, walled-off hen groups of two to four when they do. (And yes, obesity and deliberate ugliness among women is a huge problem.)
    Yet women are still getting boyfriends, and from my observation, relationships are far more endogamous, i.e., within their own social or professional circles: sorority girls only date frat bros, girls studying in one field will only date their co-students, and so forth. And conservative Protestants or Mormons exclude outsiders unless they convert. If you’re an outsider with no social or professional circle that has available women (and I myself am in that situation), it’s now much, much harder for you. I think Steve Sailer has even noted how this “assortative mating” has vastly increased over the years as society becomes more insular and distrustful.
    One exception where I apparently differ with Roosh: I’ve gotten away with quite a lot of political incorrectness, even with leftist girls, if they’re attracted to me. Not sure how or why I can do it but Roosh can’t. I also still get eye-contact, and even smiles.

    1. Look to China what happens when there is a shortage of women. Men commit more suicide, they have simply nothing to live for. No pride, not wanting to make excess money but rather spending it on themselves (like in Japan where having a Family is a thing for men that want to work themselves to death). I guess that if you want to see a real rape-culture, just have a surplus of young men who are denied sex with even the most mediocre women. Ever seen how ducks rape a female duck? When there’s chaos, turning the switch is easy for most men. Look at Germany ’45. The Russians, probably all normal fathers and sons, turned berserk on the German women.

    2. “One exception where I apparently differ with Roosh: I’ve gotten away with quite a lot of political incorrectness, even with leftist girls, if they’re attracted to me.”
      Do you have a fair complexion? I look like a terrorist so that may have something to do with it. But in Eastern Europe, I don’t have problems saying politically incorrect things.

      1. Maybe it’s DC, which I could easily imagine is particularly pozzed. Small-town Trump-supporting America by contrast doesn’t appear to be much worse than Eastern Europe any more.

      2. The beard probably doesn’t help matters much, given popular perceptions in the States. Heh.

  27. In the USA MEN SHARE THE WOMEN since women have so many options. If you want something more solid I am afraid it’s time to ship out and not look back.

    2. Laugh riot. Next time you should actually have visited the U.S. first before throwing out baseless claims.

      1. Lived most of my life here with months in eastern europe at a time. BASELESS? It is a factual observation through many, many friends. Look at modern cheating statistics and how fast women end up finding another man. Look at the girls that jumped from friend to friend in your own social network. If you want a wife and kids I am just suggesting go somewhere else where men are not so thirsty to walk all over each other and the women are scarce.

    5. He probably has more luck in the daytime, wearing a suit and a premium watch, holding a suitcate. This guy isn’t the most attractive around. Also that hair looks ratty. I understand why women act like that. He’s the equivalent of a 40 yo woman with a muffin-top and a face with thick makeup.

  29. There is a solution to all of these problems, go to a live music event, or a bar where they have a band.
    I find this to be optimal conditions to isolate a girl and extract without constant interruption from her circle of friends as they are usually distracted by the entertainment on show.
    Hanging by the bar at a venue like this gives you a conveyor belt of options lining up all night, hard to miss the target but it does happen. Keep giving yourself chances and eventually the stars will align if your a practiced solo sarger like me.

  31. I can identify with point 13. Since getting back from Asia (international game) where the babes are HB8+, I have a hard time taking shit or hearing weak shit from average broad just to get in their panties…Oh to see the shores of paradise and then get back in the dry dry desert …. How to cope with that ?

  32. Consider your inability to control for your age difference during your period of “observation.” While I’m sure the scene has changed over time, as men age, our ability to fit into the scene, declines dramatically. Night game is a young man’s environment limited almost exclusively to one-off encounters. A more mature man understands the value of day game, and the improved returns gleaned from those endeavors.

  33. In regards to being called out on a joke…Not the end of the world but how self-centered and dismissive is that? After being forced by a hostile matriarchal western culture to perform as a dancing clown, so as to foster a minimal pseudo connection to facilitate sex with her, she’s not happy with the performance! As for white knight bar staff, doormen and other orbiters feeding off intoxicated and damaged slut scraps while cock blocking males that represent everything they wish they had the balls to be, fuck them! They are like rabid dogs circling the last scarps of meat.
    Recently I was thinking about picking up some bouncer work both for extra cash but I know what its like out there. There’s no way I’m spending my nights rescuing self-entitled morally bankrupt narcissistic bitches from the consequences of their own actions, and I’m certainly not going to spend any time drinking with them. Night Game is over in the western culture. Period. A dying social convention to facilitate mating that has now been transformed into an attention whoring catwalk for party loving women.

  34. I’m happily married now, but I was running night game back in 2004-2007 with solid success. Enjoyed this episode of the podcast, but I was wondering about some of the deep cuts discussed here. I don’t know about the Roy-cee-verse (not sure how this is spelled), but I would be curious to read some of the collected knowledge from those days.
    Trust me, if you are still single, or newly married, you’re still going to want to run a maintenance-level amount of certain aspects of game with your wife in order to remain the leader in your home and maintain her respect and interest.
    Thanks for sharing your experience and wisdom, Roosh.

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