The image above is from the new about-to-be-rebuilt Greek Orthodox church on Ground Zero in New York. The outside of the building is designed to light up at night. That and the blandness of the interior are reflective on the sterility of modern Christianity, and the fact that the Orthodox allowed a Spanish Catholic to design it is revealing on the secularist mindset of the Eastern Orthodox Church today.
Yes, the Christian sect that red pill man-crush Vladimir Putin strong-arms for has built that hideous work of compromise. All forms of Christianity today have gone from teaching doctrine to teaching doubt. Even Eastern Orthodoxy—often thought of as the most beautiful and hardline sect of Christianity—panders to whatever ideology of the day is in fashion, which in turn trickles down into its aesthetics.
I promised I’d write on this again, so here we are. The church on your street-corner likely teaches all sorts of sensationalist doctrine designed to retain a high quantity of members instead of a high quality. And as a result, we see that church membership is sinking. The young generation no longer feels like they can trust the authority of religious institutions and often leaves to find alternative spiritualities.
What happened to the young that made them so distrustful of everything they knew growing up? Here are a few lessons you were taught in church that will make you grow up to be a miserable person.
“Loving Yourself Means Thinking Highly Of Yourself”
I used to have a close Christian mentor. He often told me, “One sin I struggle a lot with is low self-esteem.” Today I put my hand on my forehead when I think about that. This push for self-esteem at any cost is what has made my generation all fat and worthless. We want to blame the public schools for it, but the churches are almost as bad.
For those of you who grew up in American Christianity, recall VeggieTales’s “God loves you because you are unique” ethic at the end of every episode.
The theological and semantic errors in that are for another forum. Suffice it to say that Christians—exactly like liberal secularists—keep on and on about “love” but define it however it best fits their current purposes. Christianity wants to see itself as the center of the community, so they willingly adopt the ethics and definitions of the public schools. True, Jesus commanded to love yourself. But that doesn’t mean to think you’re a winner no matter how much you screw up your life.
A radiant offender in this is the ever-popular church league franchise Upward Basketball, often a bulwark of the local community. There is no tournament after the season, and they often don’t keep score or call fouls. But every kid walks away with a trophy and a Bible, giving them a weird feeling of accomplishment while knowing that they either didn’t accomplish anything if their team was bad or that they should have been allowed to accomplish more if their team was good.
Then the kid grows up to think his bachelor’s degree in creative writing is an accomplishment while knowing that he would never pass engineering. If anything, you’d think the draconian view of man’s depravity in Christianity would lead one to preach self-loathing.
“Just Love Others”
This is closely related to the above. Jesus said that all morality can be summed up by this command. However, the Bible never defines “love.” Yes, there’s 1 Corinthians 13, but that only describes it. People of all ideological sects greatly abuse and misuse this term. For those of you playing along at home, I myself would define Christian love as “being as God is,” but that’s just a working definition.
This is not a benign misunderstanding either. Misguided love always becomes toxic love. Plenty of people do harmful things to each other out of a sincere concern for their well-being. Many feminists—often the quieter ones—want what is in the best interest for other women, but that does not negate how destructive their lifestyle is.
“God Has Called Everyone To A Specific Career”
This is just bizarre, but it is very common in a lot of veins of Christianity. Many people really think that God has a career planned out for you and that it is your responsibility to discern what it is. So, for example, when you are born, God decides you should be a fireman. But if you become a police officer instead, then supposedly you just haven’t listened to his guidance.
And some people think they know God’s calling but fail to achieve it no matter how hard they try. You can see how many young people would quickly grow disenfranchised with the religion. The stronger one’s faith, the more broken it is when it shatters.
I was recently gaming a high school senior who was convinced that God wanted her to become a surgeon because “He has placed this desire in my heart.” She wouldn’t listen no matter how I tried to tell her that was a bad idea. So I had to dismiss her.
Now not only is she about to fail at a miserable career—likely before it even starts—but she also missed out on a potential soulmate. Which ties back into my point above about toxic love, since I’m sure her parents encouraged her to piss away her best years in grad school.
“Saving Sex For Marriage Is Really Important”
The problem is not so much with the ethic itself of waiting until marriage as it is that churches do nothing to create a context for this. Waiting until marriage would be easy if people got married at 15 or even 18. And they are right that you should generally have stable finances before getting married.
So if they wanted kids to wait until marriage, you’d think they’d give the incentive by encouraging kids to marry younger. And to do that, they’d push for men to go to trade school and for women to avoid careers. But our parents all think their kids are above average in intelligence with a special vocation from God. Having a blue collar kid is embarrassing, no matter how much evidence is shown that it is a better choice for financial and work satisfaction.
So today Christians push everyone to get a four-year degree, which often turns into a six-and-a-half year degree. And then there’s a grad degree, maybe. Add that to other toxic ideas taken from Hollywood and feminism that encourage emotional immaturity. So the kid is in his mid-twenties searching around for that ever-elusive good Christian girl. And of course Christians are often horrified by game theory, so Joe Good Christian Boy doesn’t stand a chance.
Likewise, Christian girls wait the same amount of time only to find that none of the guys at church are able to turn them on. The Christian guy is taught that he should date a girl for at least two years before deciding if they should get engaged, so every year that passes, he watches his youthful sexual energy slip away. The Christian male has his own biological clock.
If the Christian 14-year-old boy is looking at being maybe 25 at the earliest if he’s lucky before he has sex for the first time, then of course he’s likely saying, “No fucking way.” And if he knows he is an extreme beta (as I did), he realizes that it will be even longer. Christian girls have much the same line of thought, and hypergamy is rampant in both sexes. Add to that an implicit taboo on interacting at length with the opposite sex.
So the young Christian man or woman either fornicates and stays in church as a hypocrite, or they apostate altogether to do what they are naturally inclined to do, or they repress their most basic human urges on the hope that one day God will drop a spouse onto their doorstep. Either way, the young Christian man or woman feels generally betrayed and abandoned by church and God.
For the record, I’ve found that the Christian men wait until marriage much more often than the Christian women, despite what they told us about how it is harder for men to abstain.
Most Christian parents do not love their children. What they are concerned about is their pride. It is cruel and torturous to give their children a lifestyle and identity without a context in which to express it.
The simple solution to Christian premarital sex is to encourage boys to go to vocational school and girls to be domestic. That would also solve most of the emotional maturity issues. But the Christians won’t do that because they want to fit in with the fashions of the world. Which is really the biggest reason to quit going to church.
Read More: The Most Sincere Autobiography Ever Written
I don’t agree with God supposedly not calling people to specific careers or jobs. Consider the teaching in 1 Corinthians 12. This sets for the idea that people are indeed given different gifts and talents, and that they have different but equally important jobs as the collective body of Christ.
As for discernment, that’s a whole different animal. I personally feel that I’m in the career that God called me to be in, but other people might not be able to discern if they are in their proper career.
But the overall theme of this article is 100% true. American Christianity by and large is a joke, and most churches don’t preach the unfiltered truths in Scripture because they value their 501c3 status or keeping the pews full more than making disciples of Christ.
The big problem is the embrace of the term “career,” a word unheard of until a few decades ago. It embodies a view that work should itself be an ends in achieving happiness (which I distinguish from pleasure) in life, rather than just a means for provision, and an enabling tool for the bits of life that fulfill us.
It’s this absurd idea that most people will find death bed value from work itself. This has also been the driving force behind fooling women into believing that having a “career” will make them happy. Men stop pursuing work in the way that they did, because most of them were never fool enough to expect that kind of value from toil.
The vast majority of men and women will find value in life from things like family, community and other pursuits outside of their daily toil. We have decided to tell a generation that the opposite was true, hence this obsession with “a calling” be it in a secular or religious context. For most people, work is work, not a calling, just a means to an ends. But that’s ok! Just don’t expect something from it, that it can’t provide, and adjust life choices accordingly.
“It’s this absurd idea that most people will find death bed value from work itself. ”
I’ve had recent issues with this line of thought myself.
If something is a calling, you are obliged to adhere and accept. If it is simply a means to an end, its a completely different ballgame.
Especially in Protestant circles, hard work is emphasized as what helps build character and honors God.
What the hell is the point of working 60+ work weeks and dying a little after retirement age on your death bed – assuming you get that far – when you can’t take any of that money with you?
Time is by far our most important resource and we are constantly encouraged to “utilize” it through “hard-work” and a career.
No wonder so many people are so unsastified, depressed, unhappy, and so un-fufilled.
I’m sure many careers can be had with the skills you are naturally inclined to excel at. Some catrees will fit your set and most will not.
I think you’re over-emphasizing the “secularization” in the Orthodox Church. Those kinds of modern churches are a very, very small minority. The theology is remaining the same way it has for 2000 years. The fact that there’s a huge backlash even against some Orthodox churches using an organ in worship is evidence of the fact that the “secularized” ones are the exception to the rule. I also think that this church looks pretty stupid. I prefer the colorful interior with paintings adorning the walls and ceiling and a true iconostasis, not whatever thing they have there. At any rate, the Orthodox Church is by far the least secularized out of the major branches. They certainly aren’t going to ordain women to the priesthood anytime soon (the reason for this being that since a man and his wife are one, the priest’s wife is serving as a Presbytera/Matushka, but not in a teaching role). Point is, there are bad apples in every bunch. The Orthodox Church as a whole is still not budging.
The only reason the Orthodox Church hasn’t followed the path of the West, is that unlike the West, the OC hasn’t found it necessary to evangelize. It just keeps to itself, in its ethnic enclaves. It doesn’t reach the world. That, and the Iron Curtain helped to insulate it for a number of decades.
You’re right. The Orthodox Church used to be the best at evangelism, they preserved the original culture while still bringing Christianity (that’s why we have Bulgarian Orthodox, Russian, etc). On the other hand, the West “evangelized” by coming in and razing the original culture to the ground, replacing it with their own Roman/Germanic/Celtic hybrid.
Orthodoxy, although it is growing relatively quickly in the US, could be a full-on Third Great Awakening if they would just get rid of the damned immigrant mindset. There’s nothing more appalling to me as a convert than the people who use the Church as an “ethnic club.” It’s not unheard of for some visitors to be greeted with an “Are you Greek? No? Then why are you here?”
The other big issue is that many of the churches continue to have services at least partly in Greek or Russian or Arabic or whatever language, when the tradition of the Church has always been to hold it in the vernacular. Yes, I agree that modern English really isn’t a very pretty language, but substance over form is more important. If people can’t even understand the liturgy, how do we expect people to work towards their salvation?
To comment on that, I tried to integrate into a Greek Orthodox Church and had the same issues. They weren’t that blatant with the discrimination, but that’s just how it was. It was a smaller church and they really didn’t have a very good process to get converts on board. So I stopped going.
But then I visited an Antiochian Church per a friend’s recommendation and it was night and day. I was greeted instantly and met the Father the first day. A lot of those churches are filled with converts so they knew what it was like to be in my shoes.
Anyway, cool to see some other posters here are into Orthodoxy.
“The only reason the Orthodox Church hasn’t followed the path of the
West, is that unlike the West, the OC hasn’t found it necessary to
evangelize. It just keeps to itself, in its ethnic enclaves”
Orthodox converted the natives of Alaska, etc. We’ve converted African pagans tribes in the 20th/21st century. And we do it while leaving as much of the original culture intact as possible (only the religion changes). We don’t make them learn our language, etc. When Alaska was sold to America, they attempted to make good Americans out of the (now) Orthodox natives by eradicating their language, converting them to Protestantism, and changing all other parts of their culture to conform with “being good Americans.”
That’s because they were no longer part of an Orthodox society (Russia). They were part of a Protestant society. The error here was the purchase of land and attempted incorporation of a population into a different society. It was never going to work, and ought not have been attempted.
American “Christianity” is by far the biggest joke of an religion i have ever encountered in my entire life.
This one of the better articles ever written on this site. Well done.
On Christian Love: This is something that so few people understand anymore. Augustine was as clear as could be in On the Trinity (a brilliant work for many reasons). Self-Love is love of that part of the self which was made in the image of god (the soul).
If man is made in the image of God he ought to love himself for that connection (self love is love of god) and, by extension, love all other people for the same.
You wrote ” Yes, the Christian sect that red pill man-crush Vladimir Putin strong-arms for has built that hideous work of compromise”.
Putin is russian-orthodox, the church is built by the greek-orthodox church. The russian branch split from the greek branch in 1448. While they seem pretty similar, there are differences and it would be like saying, that roman-catholics and anglicans are the same…
Uh, you’re mistaken. Russian Orthodox and Greek Orthodox theology is identical. The only difference is the pastries they serve at their festivals.
I didn’t say that their theology is not the same, but there are differences in their hierarchy and, most importantly, russian-orthodoxs claim Moscow as the “Third Rome”, the legitimate successor to Constantinople.They also canonize their own martyrs, one notable case being the last tsar and his family. I don’t think that the greek-orthodox church recognizes them as saints.
There is absolutely no hostility between the two, though. They still consider each other the one, holy, Catholic, Apostolic church. The differences are marginal. I go to an OCA parish, which is in the Russian tradition and we have nothing but love for our Greek brethren.
Very well written article that I think covers a lot of the problems with the modern Western church. Instead of influencing the culture it has let the culture influence it and not for the better.
The article mentions the creative-writing person knowing they wouldn’t cut it in engineering.
My experience has been that nearly everyone thinks they are capable of being an engineer. I’ve found this to be especially true of women. A woman picks up her easy-as-hell sociology degree all the while telling herself that she’s every bit as capable as those getting a degree in chemical or electrical engineering.
I think this ties into the self esteem ideas that the article mentions, along with the constant put-down of male engineers as being nerds. Who wouldn’t automatically credit themselves as being every bit as good as a nerd?
Realistically, if we did education correctly in the developed world, there’s no reason whatsoever that young men could not apprentice their way into a PhD… i.e., earning a living/family-supporting wage while learning and earning credentials.
Our whole timeline for raising people into adults is so thoroughly f-ed up in the developed world, that sometimes it’s hard not to think that some of the problems we blame feminism for actually spring from something else.
My ideal timeline is this:
1) When you hit 15, you’re old enough to drink, work, pay taxes, and get married. If you’re not mature enough by then, too bad, learn as you go. That’s no different than how any other current adult learns things, but they’re not wasting their youth doing it, a young man is wasting his youth in high school.
2) Encourage women to marry YOUNG, between 16 and 20, and then when they’re 25 the kids are old enough that she can go get that degree if she wants to, and not impact the raising of children while doing so. Meanwhile, her husband is getting big promotions now and has significant credentials working for him.
3) By the time a married couple hits 30-35, their kids are now adults themselves, which means the married couple now has a full two decades before they are 50-55 to save up for retirement with no children slowing their savings down. That’s HUGE.
4) By the time the married couple hits 55, they’re nearly great-grandparents, and they can probably have a f-ing kickass retirement because they had so many years without children and with significant earnings power to save up.
And all this, if we abolish the bullshit state babysitting services that our public school systems are, and instead actually expose kids to learning enough so that they can earn their own way at 15.
Agree completely. In addition, women marrying young and having kids young is HEALTHY for them. My wife got pregnant when she was 17, popped the kid out when she was 18. Her pregnancy was extremely easy in her own words. No morning sickness, no throwing up, she was 8 months pregnant and able to jump on the bed! Birth was easy and labor was one of the smoothest deliveries our midwife had ever experienced… Daughter had zero health problems as a result. I’ll bet anything most of these perks were the result of my wife being young and giving birth when her body is most fertile and ready. Yet, they don’t teach that even in churches… because women need to go to college first and get a career (and this is according to the church!)
What’s more, since she gave birth young, the scarring on her body is much much much less of a health and beauty problem. Younger bodies simply recover better and faster.
Exactly, but you wouldn’t know this from the way the church never talks about it. After all, you shouldn’t want your wife to be physically beautiful and attractive… because beauty is fleeting… blah blah blah. It’s all about inner beauty and spiritual beauty. Hell, at this point is there even a difference between feminism and the modern church?
Worse still.. One has to wonder if feminism isn’t a direct result of anger over the lost years between 16 and 20. Women probably instinctively know they’ve just wasted their best years, and that any and all solutions to satisfy both elements of their hypergamy at this point will be self-destructive… so they might as well join the worlds biggest whiner group.
Convieniently evading the “Song of Songs” which is essentially an X-rated book of erotic love in marriage celebrating male and female physical beauty.
if the birth is done the way Micheal odent says to do it there wont be ANY scarring
That’s because “Songs of Songs” is really a metaphor about the love Christ/Jesus/God has towards the church. No really, that is the argument I am presented with when I bring up your point. They go through mental hoops so big I could drive my car through… just to get around the fact that the Bible actually talks about sex and sexual desire.
You mean the euphemism for playing with breasts in one of the verses is what Jesus does to the church?
That spiritualization bullshit made me lol.
As a Christian with a serious vendetta against the “knee-jerk Gnosticism” that has made God and the Bible much more sex-negative than they really are, I agree completely.
The fourth point in the article raises good points. God designed men to be the more aggressive of the genders, and since a man will typically hit his “prime” in his teens, it would stand to reason that earlier marriage would be better. The problem is, as most of us here already know, Western marriage is a deathtrap for most men. I’ve been largely asexual for all of my adult life, which gives me immunity to women and marriage, but I honestly can’t even congratulate my Facebook friends when they announce an engagement. They may as well be announcing that they’re having a triple bypass.
But you see, that is part of the feminist ideal in the age of consent law. It doesn’t matter if you have an excellent job, a home, good prospects and a large bank account. If she is not at least 18 (in America) then you are a creepy loser who should be looking for a “Real” woman. The entire concept is based around the knowledge that 16-20 are the most fertile years, and therefore the biggest competition to the 30+ carousel-riders. Can’t have that threatening their chance at the beta bux.
Connecticut and mass have aoc at 16.
Paedos you are considered if you go below the 18 year age of consent.
The age of consent in the UK is 16. This paedophilia stuff is as ludicrous as the the race denial and the gender construct zealots.
It was invented originally by the social purity trad-feminists of the 19th century:
http://gem.greenwood.com/wse/wsePrint.jsp?id=id614
Ultimately its women restricting the market to raise their own SMV via the equivalent of a sexual trade union. Or in other words like a business lobbying the government to punish customers that patronize rival businesses.
Excellent proposal!
I think other economic factors do play a role as well.
When women say “Where have all the good men gone!?”
What they are really saying is “Where are all the men who have higher social status and make more money than me!?”
Sorry babe, affirmative action. That great husband you wanted went back to college to boost his resume.
Japan for example doesn’t have a bitchy feminist/SJW movement like in North America but the men are still checking out, and for similar reasons. The cost-benefit analysis just does not add up. The women make as much money as the men, but the women are responsible for 75%+ of the domestic spending? Throw in the fact that they have the most advanced sex-technology and sex-commodification in the world and there you have it.
I think you’re saying, I should go long on the U.S. sex industry. Very much agreed.
If you start a Cuddlecafe for BBWs and haggard career women you’ll become a millionaire.
On a more serious note though… Yes… I think VR is gonna go huge in the next few years…
Ooh, can we VR an alpha cuddle somehow? I think such an invention is a guaranteed mealticket for life.
Hahaha… That is actually quite doable…
You might like this btw… Jerry is in a simulation where he isn’t a total failure and its the best day of his whole life lol.
I am not to sure about this. Its an interesting thought experiment though.
I think 15-20 is just to Young to get married. At least for a guy.
And I dont think 15 is adulthood. 15 year olds are in many ways still children. They are not mentally and physically fully developed by any stretch. Watching a 15 year old get drunk should be a lesson in immaturity.
In former times it was not unusual for women to marry in their late teens and early twenties, but males were usually older. And the reason was that families required visdom and emotional stability, in addition to stable finances.
You dont get this with 15-20 year old guys with raging hormones. Something like 25+ for the guy would be more ideal.
I am not implying that you dont have valid points. The education/worklife/Family interaction is seriously flawed in the developed World. But your solution is just to extreme, neglegting the judgemental capacity of average teenagers and people in their early twenties.
Yes, but you’re judging what I wrote from the perspective of someone who has only ever seen a culture where you can’t drink until you’re 21. You have to abandon the ideas you’ve been raised with to see what is possible.
I will note, that I did not say that men *should* marry at 15, only that they should be *adults* who are *allowed* to marry at 15.
Well actually I am not american, so I havent been raised with the 21 year old alcohol consumption law.
I have been born and raised in Scandinavia for most of my early life. Here laws on alcohol consumption are quite lax. Thats both good and bad I guess. There is no great taboo on teenagers drinking alcohol, but they in general dont handle it well. And they quickly get out of control with their behaviour. It also breeds dysfunctional behaviour. Sluttyness, drunkenness and a general mild unpleasentness in this particular demographic.
So I am not informed from preconceived ideas, but mainly from practical experience. In addition, science does not confirm the notion that 15-20 year olds can function as reasonable adults.
When laws are passed they function as behavioral signals. Often times incentives, economic or otherwise, are built into the Laws.
When you pass a law that allows 15 year olds to marry, you are signalling to the general public that its morally permissable to marry at this age.
You really cant backtrack as a politician, and say that you really dont want people to marry at this age, even though you passed a law allowing it. As always, you get more of what you incentivise.
This type of law will result in more failed and premature marriages, with single mommery and welfare queens as the inevitable result.
This misses the point. Politicians shouldn’t be telling people how to live their lives in the first place.
All law making is telling people how to live their lives. The only question is where and how you draw the line.
Either you have laws and civilization, or you have anarchy.
That’s very binary thinking, which is fine if that’s the way you want to go. But you’re taking that binary thinking, which works fine for laws against murder, theft, fraud, etc… and applying them to the decisions people make about their lives. Can you not see the wholly intrusive and intellectually offensive difference in application?
If nothing else changed other than the lowering of the marriage age………..sure we would rightfully expect more failed marriages and divorced women with children, with welfare, etc.
That’s why the fix must be comprehensive. It used to be that the transition to full adulthood began earlier, but that didn’t mean that it happened all at once. The young man/woman might be allowed to marry, but there was still a network of authority over him/her which informed their decisions and restricted their behaviors, for some time going forward, despite the “freedom” to marry and have sex. The transition was gradual and guarded.
The notion of two people getting married, then removing themselves from the influence/authority of family, community and church, is a very new one.
Exactly… in prior centuries it was not uncommon for the married couple to essentially still be attached to one or the other parent’s social-economic structure until they were standing on their own. The point is to allow for optimal conditions for women to have babies while they are young, so that the rest of their lives are not completely screwed because they waited too long to have them.
Society, through government or not, chooses to balance liberty and order. What other people do or do not do, impacts everyone else. We don’t live in isolation. Even in the Protestant Christian Anglo-Saxon world, there were restraints laid down by society, sometimes through the law, which restricted behavior. Liberty could never be absolute. For a society to avoid anarchy, you must be held responsible for the consequences of your own actions, and if you could not or would not be held responsible, you would see a commensurate restriction upon your behavior. At the same time, you still had affirmative obligations you were expected to fulfill. To the extent restrictions would be put in place, society chooses whether law is the proper/necessary vehicle, or whether the same object can be best achieved by way of religion, cultural influence or social pressure. Freedom can never mean, I can do whatever….no consequences, no restrictions, no obligations. That’s not freedom, that’s not sustainable.
What’s more, people don’t come out the womb believing this to be necessary; we’re naturally selfish. That understanding must be inculcated. In order to foster arrangements which help foster this understanding among the young, society chooses to channel human behavior in ways that promote it. Hence, the societal interest in monogamous heterosexual marriage. This is largely achieved by restricting human behavior.
So, yes, we through our elected representatives should be telling people how they can live. We must.
lol… you’re a dyed-in-the-wool statist. I don’t think you even realize how, in that comment you just made, you subtly moved from talking about laws that are meant to enact justice on those who deliberately infringe on the freedom of others, to laws that proactively restrict free people from doing things that have no direct impact on anyone save themselves.
No, I’m a conservative, not a classical liberal. As such, I believe that people are naturally selfish, that they are naturally unequal, and that these characteristics are forever fixed in our being. All of my views are seen through, and reflect these truths.
The chief error of classical liberalism (one which it shares with both Modern and Radical liberalism) is that it has a much higher view of human nature than recorded human experience (or holy scripture) affords. It takes for granted, that MOST people are good and generally behave well. Sure, some people are bad, and we need a legal system to deal with them, but most people are fine, if we just leave them alone. This is a grand illusion, one which can only be maintained in a genuinely conservative culture. But as the culture, faith and social institutions deteriorate, the real selfish nature of humanity becomes apparent.
Remember Burke spoke of “ordered liberty,” not just “liberty.” We as a country, and I suspect you individually, have forgotten about the order bit. That’s why all those so-called conservatives (pretty much all conservatives are really libertarians/classical liberals) only ever talk about is Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Money! Money! Money! Sure, our Anglo-Saxon culture and Protestant Christian faith, allowed for us a greater degree of liberty, risking less order, than other societies had. But that still rested upon a certain base level of order present in society. That’s now largely evaporated, yet they’re still making a political case for a population that’s now long dead.
Liberty and the Free Market are all well and good, but they are useless and ultimately lost, if order is not maintained. That requires checking the selfishness of humanity, which people on the Right don’t even realize anymore, is in need of being restricted.
In every society, selfishness is checked, and order maintained by some combination of religion, culture, social institutions and law. Different societies come up with different answers, balancing liberty and order, as suits their circumstances and experiences. But all, traditionally, utilized some combination of the the four to check the worst of human nature, and the channel the best into a socially beneficial direction.
What we have been witnessing in the West over the past 125 or so years (antecedents go back to the Enlightenment) is the slow repeal of faith, culture, social pressure and law from human behavior. The result is the predicable chaos that follows from unhindered liberty, without consequence, limitation or obligation, the root of which the inherent selfishness of human nature.
All of this combined with the idiotic idealistic belief in human equality, has lead to the slow death of our civilization.
We don’t live in a vacuum. What you choose to do, or not do, affects others in a multitude of ways, seen and unseen.
The very use of Mises’ term “statism” (or as he had it “etatism”, showing its French origination), frames the issue as those for or those against the use of government. This is a false dichotomy.
The Left’s belief in government is as transformational force for our march into the Glorious Progressive Future. To the Right, it’s merely a tool to maintain order. The classical liberal, is truly a liberal, and of the Left, because he shares the Socialist’s errant views on human nature and human equality, and foolishly thinks with them, that what has been, will forever be.
No its not binary thinking.
You need family policies and family law no matter what. The level of government involvement however is open for debate.
And why are you setting a marriage cut off point at 15 years of age? Why not go all in and let people marry at birth?
Do you even know how many laws regulate modern societies? Lots of other areas need regulation apart from criminal law.
This is a very good point. Former societies, even America pre sixties, was far less atomized. Communities and extended families were probably much stronger and stable. Transition to adulthood was also more gradual. If marriage age was to be lowered, the whole culture would need to change.
I still think 15 is to low. 18 is more reasonable, but individuals at this age would still be in need of a lot of guidance.
The problem is fundamentally a breakdown of local communities.
This overall is a really great commment.
You truly understand the inherent problems with libertarianisms, and that it ultimately is just another version of liberalism.
Yes I think this is correct. The culture would need to change if marriage laws were to be loosened.
15 years of age is still to young in my opinion though , but I understand the general flavor of your overall argument.
I don’t believe people especially women should just be able to divorce when they feel like it. It should be forbidden in most cases. The exceptions being female infidelity or serious violence. Not the odd slap in the face (I don’t see what the big deal is with the occasional slap of a hysterical, nagging brat) but serious and repeated violence.
“The problem is fundamentally a breakdown of local communities.”
Thanks to government schools
But how can one make an action in relation to others that does not infringe upon them in some way? This is the major paradox that limits a pure classical liberal line of thought, and fully misrepresenting your opponent as a hardcore statist is no different than a leftist painting their opponents as sexist or racist. Do not become the monster you hate and lose yourself to ideology.
15 is too young and so is 16 maybe 17 or 18 the age where anyone can watch a rated R film.
Not too young for a girl in my opinion. The male should be ten years older, at least.
Exactly. And while the guys are building their careers and waiting to become old enough to marry, they can get it on with cougars, skanks, and hookers (of which there will always be a certain percentage in any society).
Remember, in primitive stone age type societies 15 year olds are trained and ready to act as adults, and expected to do so for the good of the tribe.
We modern people insist on keeping people as children for as long as possible, and then expecting them to become fully functional adults on their 18th birthday. Even as recently as my grandparents generation boys were taught to work, and girls were taught to keep house, no slacking allowed. Our current young people act like children because they have been taught since birth to act that way, especially the girls.
The height of stupidity and unfairness is the idea that at 18 your are mature enough to get a drivers license, buy a gun, be drafted, buy cigarettes, get married, enter into a legal contract and be tried, convicted, and executed as an adult, but you are not mature enough to drink a beer.
We can thank christians and femminists for this.
Yes. But these 15 year olds were part of a tribe. They had support from their elders, both moral and financial guidance. In fact economic risks were probably smaller, since risks were pooled in a community based economy. The comparison between stone age societies and modern ones are therefore not straight forward. The environment was simply much different.
Modern day 15 year olds are not part of tribes. In fact they are encouraged to become atomized individuals practically from the onset of puberty. Communities are much more scattered today, if not broken down. Its true that young people are coddled until their early twenties or so. But once they leave the nest they are pretty much on their own. And they are forced to make far more decisions on their own hand. And this is meant litterally. Single households are today quite common. This makes a solid upbringing even more important, since community support is diminished compared to former times.
I agree with the stupidity in your example. Part of it stems from the democratic process in itself. Since Laws are passed as compromises at many different points in time. The bodies of law are therefore not ideologically coherent. Law makers primarily have to make sure that they are logically coherent, that no contradictions are present.
But its true, if you look at the overall Picture, there is not much consistency in the specific rights, prohibitions and obligations of 18 year olds.
Drinking that early will make you develop less mentally.
Do you think it is feasible for young men to earn at 15 develop his skills as provider and protector as well as develop leadership skills to lead the household and marry a woman younger than 15? Who only trains for the household?
Since responsibility for women is not as heavy as the man I consider the above feasible. Do you think the scenario I presented as feasible or not?
What I think is that there is too much variation and untapped intellectually capacity in our youth that is completely wasted by having no expectations placed on us other than attendance at a subsidized child-prison like U.S. High Schools. Individuals should be free to excel or slack off as they desire, without the intrusion of the state telling everyone that they *must* follow a lowest-common-demoninator path under pain of imprisonment or death.
Homeschool. Have them ace the SATs and go to college by 12 (you’ll need the homeschooling parent to drive and take them to their classes). Graduate with STEM degree by 15/16. They can start supervised “courting” (not dating) around 16. By 18 they can have a Masters or been apprenticed in a trade. The girls hopefully are ready to be married off just as they turn 18. The young men can wait until 19-21 and still marry a (ideally homeschooled) virgin girl around 1-4 years younger, a girl who he probably starting courting when he was 15-18. If you’re not a Christian homeschooler and socializing with the other families in your parish and surrounding parishes, or if you and your children waste the prime marriage years, they aren’t likely to find an ideal spouse after 23 or so. You snooze, you lose.
The problem with homeschooling is that it gives only one point of view, usually that of the parents religion.
This creates religious bigots, social ineptness, emotional problems, behavioral problems, anti social thinking, one sided religious only education etc.
Your overall plan is actually quite good, but the children need to exposed to the fact that there is something out there besides the church and religion.
Home schooled kids need to be in a public school at least part time to socialize them with normal people, locking them in a cage and shoving a bible in their face all day long is child abuse.
Learning how to network and socialize with normal people in the real world will be of far greater benefit to them than so called better education in a home school.
We have enough religious tyrants i our government already, trying to trample on the constitutional rights of non believers, we cannot afford to raise another generation of them.
I know you not agree with me, but remember, I grew up in a fundamentalist christian environment, I know exactly what I am talking about, I went through it.
I’m of the view that sending kids to state schools will raise a bunch of kids that subscribe to a different kind of bigotry. Now if you subscribe to the same kind of bigotry that the schools teach then everything is good.
However if your bigotry is at odds with those of the schools then conflict is sure to ensue. Would you rather your kids subscribe to your kind of bigotry or someone elses?
That works. But I disagree with 16-20 marriage age. At least 17 or 18 maybe.
Eh, self-deception is probably one of the biggest mistakes WE ALL MAKE!
Like the writers “soul mate.” She wanted to be a surgeon, but he claims she WILL find it unappealing. And lost her soul mate, him, in the process?
Also, he talks about Christianity, but then follows it with “I was gaming this wannabe surgeon” who just totally does not get how much of a catch I am for following her dreams, and God obviously wanted her to suck my cock for a living. As if, feminist with a cock. LOL
Yeah, Christ sure did want you to follow yor heart’s desire, gaming chicks, that he killed himself, and raised himself from the dead so you could break, quite literally, every single paraphrase, and command His Father gives?
Yeah, I’m sure pastors and priests all over the country are going to stop what they are doing and take your advice. LOL
Which leads me to this comment.
The reality my friend is that women are not just a part of the work force, but a permanent part. Even if they all begged us to take “headship” and dominate them with spanking while they cook us three square meals a day, dropping one off at the office for lunch, and sucking us off while they do it. Only to repeat all the way through the night. To start all over again the next morning. LOL
Yeah, good luck with that. You will tire of her no matter how hot, and full of character your personal cum bucket is.
You are trying to get people to disregard centuries of progress, and fit into your little slice of heaven? Based on what? How you like things to be?
I’m telling ya, life is like Jiu Jiutzu. Not Tae Kwan Do!
There is no textbook perfect way of handling everyone, and every situation. Every person is different, man or woman, with their own unique skill set. If you want to be head of the household, and listen to your teeny/tweeny future bride boor you to friggin death about the latest boy band, be my guest.
I’m not saying that a woman should not be a virgin. But if you read proverbs 31, since you mega players here are quoting the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth, I got news for ya. Proverbs 31. King Lemuel’s mother, I think, told him the type of women he should get. I’m here to tell you, that woman is one who works.
Be thankful that the woman you do eventually settle down with, if ever, can earn a pay check.
I damn well am! Mine makes a six figure salary!
You friggin think, that I am going to listen to her tell me that she wants to “Go discover herself” and send me back to back breaking work, on top of a soul crushing main job, just to support the modern woman’s “needs?” While she spends us into oblivion, and coffee dates with her other worthless friends at McDees while the kids are at day care. And I have to pay for that, while she gets all the fun? Hell no.
Bish better get a job! She can wait for the banging and sucking for the weekends, because my ever growing old arse needs a break too! I dated a true nympho once. Didn’t like it. She could never be satisfied. Dang it, I nailed that chick with some of the best performances I ever had. Ten friggin minutes later, she’s waking me up wanting more. I thought I was a nympho before that.
People need to live man. Anything more than guidelines, they can’t follow. We can’t follow. The whole point of Christianity was the cross. The God of the Blood sacrifice, needed to appease His sense of justice. But rather then send everyone to burn in sulfur and brimstone, he temporarily killed a portion of Himself instead. Essentially, acknowledging that his favorite creation could never make it on it’s own.
No point in being too rigid. Humans can’t keep up. Most will not follow this path. They can’t, they are not wired for it. But woman should marry younger, and enjoy it better. And most will likely marry older, more established men. It is biology, Divine.
I agree we don’t need the state involvement. But families need to have more control over their memebers. That will definitely put a damper on a player’s day.
If you think all the wise elders, male and female, of a family are going to be persuaded by smooth language, LOL. Good luck with that.
But, at least we won’t have a lot of the problems we have today. And make no mistake, all of us would get shamed too.
A society like that could place the scarlett letter on me any day. I would gladly pull the Chris Farley routine of a van, down by the river.
But this people don’t want to hear it. Too much sex, and debt to get involved in. For tomorrow, we most likely do die.
Many are hoping God does not exist. They would hate to answer for EVERYTHING. Hard to impress the Inventor of matter, when He knows all (supposedly), and wants to see simple character strength. I doubt He would find much.
Excellent article as usual. I’m a regular church-goer and I see each and every one of these constantly. A buddy of mine… 23 years old, decent job with decent money, recently broke up with his girlfriend. Problem was that he kept asking her to get married and she would delay and hesitate because… reasons (mostly her dad told her to wait). Here was a guy who made enough to start a family and the parents were telling the girl to delay for god knows what. Hell, she even cried when they kissed because kissing is a sin, after all. He was telling me how he just wants sex and hates that he has to wait so long… something he was afraid to tell anyone else in the church. The church would crucify him if they knew about this normal, male desire… which brings me to my next point.
Modern churches pander to females and feminists constantly. The church is constantly spouting “man up” messages. Yet, these messages say nothing about self-improvement (self-improvement after all is prideful and that is a sin), how to be a better man, how to navigate intergender relations. All they do is tell us guys how crappy we are and how we could be so much better if we were just nice to women. And yet, I still haven’t heard a single “woman-up” message given to the ladies.
The modern church is a beta-making machine. And the church wonders why girls go for guys outside the church and why Christian guys are so unsuccessful with girls.
You are so correct. “One sin I struggle with is low self esteem” Yeah? Well Fuck You! Want to know the sin I struggle with? I have been married 15 years with 2 young children and I want to fuck some young college co-ed who has daddy issues. There are so many problems with the church and the biggest problem is the lies we tell each other rather than be honest with the sins we are struggling with. Church is supposed to be for broken people, not perfect people. The true church kicks out “perfect people” a/k/a pharisees.
And yet, if you went to anyone in the modern church with your sin… they would crucify you and tell you just how horrible of a husband you are for even having those thoughts… biology notwithstanding. Isolate and condemn, but not help.
Then they wonder why guys don’t come to the church with their problems and leave…. If you condemn guys for being guys and having normal, male desires (isn’t that something feminists do?) they will leave
I am blessed that in my church there were two guys who started a group for men a year ago. We just meet, talk about issues were dealing with, discuss whatever we want and then go do something fun like a hike or snowshoe. The group has really grown and the positive effect it has had on each one of us, myself included , had been great. There is no judgements cast and the openness has been refreshing
Sounds good and keep an eye open. You’ll probably have some woman wanting to join your group soon enough and if you don’t let her she’ll cry discrimination.
Men only spaces are not only for men – according to women (lol).
Haha….And I thought I was the only one who was in the same boat and struggled with the same temptation
10 to 1 the girl in the story from paragraph one is getting double and triple teamed, washing her face with multiple semen samples and has an asshole without enough elasticity for her farts to make noise before she marries her one true love.
That is because the church has become infiltrated with the Spirit of the Whore, true Spirit of Jezebel. Feminism! A whore is not a whore because she has sex. A whore is a women who hates men, and uses her body as a tool to destroy and extract funds from them. A whore is a whore first because of her hatred of men. This Spirit has infiltrated our culture, and the Church is no exception.
Exactly my church and other churches out there teaches that kissing is a sin and that cuddling with your girlfriend is a sin. That’s the reason why Christian guys are labeled as beta and Christian girls wind up with bad boys
You should probably point that out to them next time….just to see the reaction on their faces.
“so…if I’m hearing you correctly: John needs to refrain from kissing and cuddling because it’s a sin but Katey over there can be a whore all she wants…is that the message?”.
Take a pic and post it here….classic shit.
I’ve submitted an article about christian dating here at ROK
“The modern church is a beta-making machine. And the church wonders why girls go for guys outside the church and why Christian guys are so unsuccessful with girls.”
I attended a private Christian high school, and let me tell you, many of the girls punched their V-cards before graduation–and those cards were not typically being punched by the male students. This, this and THIS all day. I felt like the teachers were constantly trying to strip the guys of their sexuality, convincing them that their desire was inherently sinful. It disgusted me.
Of course…it lines up with the rest of society. Hold man accountable and responsible while letting women off with a pass. You can’t reprimand or correct a woman, either, because they would be considered “sexist”.
The fucking hamster runs wild….everywhere.
In Whitemanistan ruled by yours truly this would not be a problem. Virginity would be encouraged in the female populous. They would be taught how to be a good wife and mother (no need to fill their pretty little heads with algebra and geography) until the age of 15 where their education would be complete and they would then be required to marry. Their future husband’s should be about eight to ten years older. The men would not be required to stay virgins until that age of course, so I would import good looking girls (sterilized) from poor countries to work strictly as prostitutes.
No need to import them, (per my comment above) there will always be a certain percentage of cougars, hookers and generally loose women in any population. Probably around 5-10%. Enough to keep the single guys happy but not enough to upset the overall social structure of marriage and child-raising.
“Modern churches pander to females and feminists constantly. The church is constantly spouting “man up” messages.”
Agree…that is much of the problem with churches and society, today. They all have the same messages: men need to man up and woman are free (to do whatever). I agree with men needing to do their part (as men) and it’s up to other men to set them straight. But, the special snowflakes (women) are only receiving the “you’re free to do whatever message” since birth.
A good message from the church (and hell, from society) would be a “woman up” message: do your part, stop complaining all of the fucking time and tone down the inner whore a little.
There is no “balance” for women any longer; no one is allowed to reprimand them. They are free to totally fuck up with no one telling them otherwise. When a person does chime in with a little wisdom, they are struck down (verbally) for being a sexist, a misogynist, etc… I, personally, don’t mind being the messenger because it’s something they desperately need in today’s society.
Everyone walks around telling women they are so god damn special all of the time. They need a wake up call.
A side note: another reason why we don’t have true equality, today. Men need to man up but women are allowed to “run and play”….no responsibility required, snowflakes.
When it comes to Christianity and God: Either, there really was a man named Jesus from Nazareth who claimed to be the Son of God, was executed by the local government, and then three days later came back to his friends and said “see, I really am the Son of God.” Or the whole story is a fairy tale like Santa and the Tooth Fairy. Everything else is bullshit. The death of Christianity came when Christians and Republicans became synonymous. God is not a Republican.
God is his own team. You either are on his side or not.
Thanks for clearing that all up for us, now we can all go home and sleep because Lance figured the whole thing out. If Christians are synonymous with Republicans does that mean Jews are synonymous with Democrats? That certainly would explain Obama’s disproportionate appointments of Jews to various positions of power.
Oh look, there went my point, right over your head.
I don’t see how Christianity died when Republicans and Christians became synonymous. Both parties use houses of worship to reach out to people and play on peoples religious values to get them to vote for their candidate. I believe Christianity in the US has been devastated by liberals, feminists, and homosexuals who have infiltrated many of the mainline Protestant faiths not to mention the infiltration of Catholic faith as well by these interlopers. It really bothers the hell out me when I see the rainbow flag in front of a church. It’s pretty common here in VT. They want you to think the message is all are welcome but the real message is we (the fags) have taken over.
A man named Jesus, from Nazareth, went around Galilee 2,000 years ago saying he was the Son of God. This man wasn’t that much different than say, David Koresh, who also claimed he was the son of god. Like David Koresh, both men were killed by their respective governments. What makes Jesus different than David Koresh is that the followers of Jesus, before they died, all said, “Look, this man Jesus who died/was crucified, came back to life and walked among us for forty days.” None of David Koresh’s followers said the same thing. So the question is, are these followers of Jesus crazy? lying? Why would they lie? They all went to their death beds saying Jesus was alive.
The evidence of Jesus’ life and death and subsequent resurrection is overwhelming. To deny the life, death and subsequent resurrection is akin to saying “I don’t believe Cesar Augustus ever lived and his story is a complete fabrication.” For Christians today, to focus on such mundane things as the rights of homosexuals to marry is to completely miss the point of who and what Jesus is. If I were a more talented writer, I could come up with a comparable simile, but I can’t.
Those who want to say Jesus supports my political position in 21st century America, gives those who oppose that particular position, and therefore Jesus, a handy punching bag that makes the opposition look like the intellectually elite. These views include something along the line of “God being born of a virgin and walking among mere mortals is a common myth that included ancient Greek and Egyptian gods. I don’t believe in Jesus anymore than I believe in Zeus.” And unless you study past the common talking points of the pundits on Fox News, you don’t know how to counter these “intellectual” arguments, and the Christian allows Christ to be mocked without an adequate rebuttal.
As a fellow Vermonter I’ve noticed the same thing, it’s such sacrilege.
I like your point that christians focus on the mundane things, instead of spreading love and the gospel like jesus told them to do.
I am a conservative, but I can see that republican style christians are what is wrong. The Pharisees have taken over the church.
Correct, the religious reich is just as destructive as the marxist left, but much more subtle.
Your article is just “Here’s a problem with Branch 127” and “Oh look! What a terrible idea they follow over at Branch 16.” Christianity has thousands of divisions, of course some will preach bad ideology…that’s why they had to split off from the Catholic church.
So if they wanted kids to wait until marriage, you’d think they’d give the incentive by encouraging kids to marry younger.
100% this. I have two daughters under 13, and I actively encourage them to wait until marriage, but not to wait long for marriage.
My brother is not talking to his daughter because she married a (rather wealthy) boy at 17 (He is 22, finished business college, and is working for his father’s company). My brother is a typical SJW and is upset at her because he wanted her to go to (liberal arts) college and ‘establish her career’ before marriage, she wanted to get married because she wanted to have sex and children.
I am currently giving her the support her father should have.
Good on you! Well done.
“For the record, I’ve found that the Christian men wait until marriage much more often than the Christian women, despite what they told us about how it is harder for men to abstain.”
This is a tremendous insight. The reason for this is that male sexuality is proactive while female sexuality is reactive. For a male Christian to not wait until marriage, he most likely has to consciously decide to have sex. The sin must be planned and premeditated.
Females do not have to face this moral dilemma. They can simply be “swept away” by the moment. By the time they have to think about if it is right or wrong to follow through with a particular sexual encounter, they will most likely be heavily aroused.
For this reason, the loss of virginity is more likely to be a crime of passion for a girl while it is a premeditated sin for a boy. This makes it much more likely that a Christian male will be able to save their virginity for marriage especially when you consider how much more difficult it is for a man to get laid in general.
That last bit is one of the big reasons for the disparity. It’s simply easier for a young woman to have sex, than it is for a young man. Doesn’t mean that if presented with the opportunity, that young men would be any more righteous in behavior than their sisters.
First, as a commentor mentioned on an earlier article, the use of the term virgin in the Bible was never used in reference to a male, only in reference to women. So “losing your virginity” should never have been applied to young men by the Church. A male has either has had sex or hasn’t.
Good point. I don’t think there is enough shaming or reprimanding going on today (against the female) and that’s why it happens or it is accepted as a “crime of passion”.
This “no accountability” bullshit is the same reason we have the bullshit “rape culture” going on (same song, second verse)…it’s no responsibility at it’s finest.
Start shaming these women in church and two things will happen: they’ll stop being sluts or they’ll stop attending. Until then, you have a lot of whores sitting in church on Sunday “acting” like virgins.
Point out the whores, pin a sign on them or a sticker. Show everyone “hey, the whores are right here”…and she’ll have to take responsibility (and be accountable) for it.
Show everyone “hey, the whores are right here”.
That will definitely attract a whole new crowd of guys to church.
This sums up my experience in the church to a tee.
Thank you for another insightful article.
Is the Greek Orthodoxy so influential so they get to build a church on such prime location? The church inside looks hideous.
Very good article, btw.
Great indictment. The church in the West today has one foot in Scripture and the other in the ” world”. This has led to a weird schizophrenic hybrid of emotional spirituality. On the one hand the Bible is acknowledged and some of its truths taught while the remainder of the time one is encouraged to be led by” your gut feelings “and “promptings of the spirit”. Is it any wonder ,with such an emphasis on the emotional, that most of the pews are filled by women on Sunday. There is not a lot of concrete substance there. There needs to be a return to Scripture as the infallible Word of God and to hell with the emotional gibberish. Without this the church in the West will cease to be the salt and light it is called to be. A remnant will remain though but it will be just that a remnant.
”On the one hand the Bible is acknowledged and some of its truths taught while the remainder of the time one is encouraged to be led by” your gut feelings “and “promptings of the spirit”.
The “promptings of the spirit” never contradict scripture. Otherwise its just your own selfish self talking.
Couldn’t agree more
I’m Catholic, and women pretty much run the Catholic Church in America in every position that doesn’t explicitly require Holy Orders. Even then, if you’re hospitalized, it’s just as likely a little old lady will bring you the Eucharist as a priest. My pastor occasionally delegates the homily to a lay woman. Priests know which side their bread is buttered on, so most American Catholic priests are as beta and milquetoast as the local Evangelical pastor at the megachurch (there are honorable exceptions of course, such as Raymond Cardinal Burke.)
I stay Catholic because I believe Catholicism is true. I have to admit though, if a non-Catholic friend expressed interest in converting, I’d have to search long and hard for a parish that wouldn’t turn him off with its feminist buffoonery.
one of the reasons I like the mormons is that they have not compromised quite as much.
I once had a Mormon boss, he was a nice guy, but the biggest beta I’ve ever known.
I am sure. but anecdotally, beta was (not so much anymore) rewarded in Mormons.
It’s almost hilarious how quickly “Christian” girls lose their virginity in this day and age. Heck “Christian” girls have become just as promiscuous as secular girls. That’s probably why nobody takes Christianity seriously anymore.
Yep. Sorry girls. God may forgive your sluttiness. I won’t
LOL, good one !
Reminds me of a prank someone pulled. Made a fake account on some dating website, a man of the Chad Thundercock variety. Started talking to a woman about having casual sex, and got increasingly extreme until eventually she said she’d love to be pissed on, choked and have his cock shoved so hard up her backside she’d have trouble walking for days.
Turns out she was an active Christian youth worker. Talking about ‘spreading the word of Jesus’ while actually she was looking for a man who’d spread his sperm all over her face. How’s that for chastity?
What a disgusting temple building. I can’t believe the local bishop has allowed it. The congregation should protest it. Loudly!
I agree, boys should be told to go to vocational school and girls to be domestic. Also christian boys should be encouraged to be men, and not to grow up a pussies.
lol soulmate.
no such thing. Destiny, the mate God has for you, etc….. baloney.
I am a Christian through and through, but that soulmate theory is toxic in and of itself. Just about any couple with some self-discipline and character can have a happy life together. The romanticizing of “soulmate” talk only serves to keep these poor souls celibate and lonely even longer.
Just about any couple with some self-discipline and character
And usually man’s job to instill the character and discipline in the woman.
Read the Bible, so many Men will read all kinds of books but when it comes to their faith many neglect reading the Bible and prefer to have another human being at church tell them about it. The church will submit and flex to the pressures of the Times, but God’s word is eternal and unwavering in the Bible, Some of the contrasts are amazing between the church and the Bible. I went into a Progressive liberal church one time and on the wall was a paper that said… let’s help further acceptance of our gay and lesbian and transgender brothers and sister in society,… something along those lines, trust me way different then the bible’s message, yes Jesus loves those people, but he wants to see them leave that life of sin, yet that church was encouraging the sin.Also saving yourself until marriage I believe is another church policy and not a policy of the bible’s , God does say that a virgin woman is a wonderful thing that should receive immense praise but never any mention about waiting until marriage, unless I over-looked something. I recommend Reading the Bible it will liberate you of any question’s regarding your faith and and will strengthen your faith.
Some great points.
Yesterday I was debating an atheist who said it selective exaltation or salvation is unfair. Who are we to judge? I told him some people are better than other people and deserve more. I am tired of the “everyone’s a winner” approach.
I believe everyone took part in the creation of the universe, and that our talents and preferences in life are influenced by what we already achieved. As far as God’s plan, it is totally up to us what we want to do.
The final point I strongly agree with. Marriage is becoming an increasingly losing proposition as churches make sanctity harder to achieve. The problem is careerism is so ingrained in our corrupt society. I wish churches would stand up for marriage at a young age and homemaking for women. The fashions of the world are poisonous, and catering to the latest feel-good message only makes churches appear foolish, as the pope discovered today.
”Yesterday I was debating an atheist who said it selective exaltation or salvation is unfair. Who are we to judge? I told him some people are better than other people and deserve more. I am tired of the “everyone’s a winner” approach.”
If everyone is guilty and God decides to pardon some? How is this unfair? Who deserves to be forgiven?
”I believe everyone took part in the creation of the universe, and that our talents and preferences in life are influenced by what we already achieved. As far as God’s plan, it is totally up to us what we want to do.”
Some people do actually get called on a special mission. But for most its up to them however the way they conduct they work should be according to biblical principles.
Since man is the imago dei the true purpose of man is to act as a prism to the glory of God refracting his glory into a multi-coloured beauty
This article hits close and hard. My first thought was to put up some defense, but I stepped back and thought there’s a lot of good points here. A lot of the rules we set down in churches are man made. They are not called for by the Bible. The man made rules are flawed, and they’re often shortcuts. It’s easier to make rules than to raise people of strong character.
The self-esteem issue has not been a problem in my church.
The love issue is one we have addressed by saying love is not nice, it is just right. You can love a homosexual and welcome them in the church, but that comes along with discouraging a homosexual lifestyle. It’s a sin, and we all sin in different ways, but we are supposed to be helping each other deal with imperfections. Don’t condone the homosexual lifestyle, and encourage them to lead better lives. Use words if you have to.
God does not call most of us to specific careers. He grants us our talents, whatever they may be, and He gave us free will to do with it as we choose. It is in our hands to make the most of what we have been given.
The saving sex for marriage part is spot on. It’s easier to tell people to abstain than it is to instill morals within them that make them select good partners.
Excellent points, Sir, thank you.
Agree with this article. Based on my personal experience, I would say church actually encourages young women to be promiscous by promising them, through grace, that all their sins will be forgiven–right in time for marriage to their beta-provider! So in this way church reinforces female hypergamy. This goes well with your theory that the church does whatever it takes to stay relevant within the society it operates in.
I’ve heard pastors say that God will send the single mom’s a man to be a dad for her kids. It’s sick
Meanwhile, mom is waiting in line to get back on the cock carousel.
Someone should bring that up in church.
sparse, plain churches are part of the conservative Protestant/Calvinist tradition, compared to the ostentatious Catholic cathedrals/churches with the stained glass and crucifixes
Ostentatious? Have you been inside a modern Catholic church recently?
So today Christians push everyone to get a four-year degree, which often turns into a six-and-a-half year degree.
wha? I’ve been to church many times and not once has that come up
What kind of Greek orthodox church is that?? Im Greek orthodox and our churches in Melbourne look nothing like that, they are covered in iconography
I assumed they all looked like the ones we have, I would feel like I am in a Catholic church if I was in there.
I agree, but it looks like a Protestant church
Wait a sec, last I looked the Greek Orthodox church was a distinct part of the Eastern Orthodox church. It’s not representative of the other Orthodox churches that fall into the Eastern Orthodox umbrella. Are you saying all Orthodox churches are moving to a secular mindset, or is this just the americanized Greek Orthodox church doing its own thing?
That tends to make a difference…
This isn’t intended anger the patriarchal types, so don’t get all butt hurt and shoot the messenger.
By far the most unbiblical and ruinous belief promoted in church is that everyone has a duty to marry up and start a family. The over importance assigned to marriage is the reason for all the unbiblical divorce and remarriage nonsense now accepted by churches. It’s also why they think they can fix sluts.
It’s bad theology and creates bad outcomes.
Certainly marriage and family is the best situation for most men and women. However, there are outliers –I would guess 5 to 15 percent -who should stay single. These people are generally the free spirts and adventurous types (and a few miscellaneous crazies). You all know one. They’re just wired different.
Encourage these people to family up wrecks lives. They aren’t suited for it. Some people have the gift for marriage. Some people have the gift for being single.
Pretty good for a youngster.
The world does not want Christ, because the world hates the truth. The world does not want those Christ sends in truth, because the world (people) prefer to aggrandize themselves, and their Holy Opinions, and to silence their betters. Got a zillion rationalizations for doing it, too. Usually they figure getting mad will get them off the hook. LOL
King Jeshua never said to love yourself — that twists the semantic of Matthew 22. He said to love OTHERS in the same manner as one looks after one’s own self-interest. (Yeah it’s a real high-bar, nobody said it was easy, and it ain’t easy.) Christ already knew that we are full of faults, sins, ignorance, and bullshit. As the article points out, He was not encouraging self-esteem, which is mere modernist arrogance. We are to (unflinchingly) KNOW ourselves . . . not LOVE ourselves. Ick.
As for love, none of us adults needs to be ‘told’ what it is. We’re just selfish and don’t want to extend love to others, because yup it’s hard. Only fake Christians need to have ‘love’ defined. It’s already defined in our hearts and we darn well know it, too. Psychopathic feminists inclusive.
Christianity in America (and most other places) is a comprehensive fail. But Christ is not a fail, and he has NOT ‘changed with the times’.
Good effort. Cheers.
The world does not want christ because because christians are self righteous, judgemental, hateful, hypocritical, closed minded, superstitious, bigoted, jackasses.
Did I miss anything ? christianity is the second most evil and destructive thing there is.
In case you are curious, I base my hatred of christianity on something I read in the bible, Matthew 7:16, by their fruits ye shall know them.
The fruit of christianity stinks to high heaven, when I see the antics of christians, it just proves how false the whole thing is.
Jesus lost the battle for the church, the Pharisees won.
I’m a white man living in the 21st century. I have no time for magical zombie jews.
Then lay off the shrooms and you won’t see them anymore
I have to disagree with most of this, perhaps some need to do a more wide scan of Christian community. Spiritual centeredness is like anything, if you rely too much on others you will be doomed for failure. You can support others and (if you believe) spread the Word by your actions, not these crazy slogans ripped from some spiritual psycho-beta-babble.
If you believe in an Almighty you alone must do that walk, and all these crazy slogans are just not just juvenile ideaology. I respect each person to make their own decisions on their moral or spiritual compass.
But anybody grasping for this, or selling these claims as major issues, is thirsty.
I stopped going to church as soon as I was no longer forced to. I’ve never been happier. I think it’s wrong to indoctrinate your children to be scared and guilty all the time worrying about some spook in the sky, and being burned for all eternity if you masturbate.
Synogogue you mean.
Quite so Sir, telling young, impressionable children this kind of rubbish is child abuse.
I stopped going to church. . I got sick of the mangina pastors and beta men and their blaming and shaming attempts. The women are all single mom’s and sluts. No paster dare say a word to them or hold them accountable. In fact Christians think women have zero responsibility and that it’s always a man’s fault. . They rage about men seeing porn and give money to single mom’s who fucked a bad boy. Trad cons use the church to emasculate men and provide for women. A man in a church is attacked for being unemployed, underemployed, not married or not dating one of the Churches single mom’s. A woman who was riding Harley Mc badass and his cock years before she found Jesus. There are more whores in a church than on backpage. Pastors fear offending these sluts. My old church even had Driscoll speak a month after his fall. It just doesn’t get more mangina and beta than these Christians inviting Mr “how dare you” to come and trash men at other churches. mother’s day is a huge deal in churches and fathers day is a call for men to man up and marry single mom’s. Christians are convinced men are causing this, and that women are perfect. They are worse than feminists I now know why 39% of church members are men. Men are leaving the church. I’m not going to give ten percent of my money to some mangina asshole just to then tell me to man up and wife up a fat pig single mom with tats and a blown out Vagina
DAMN, !!!!! You shure know your churches, LOL, good post.
I am hugely dissapointed at my beliefs.
I was raised in the LDS (Mormon) church. After I reached the age of twelve, not a week went by without a church leader or Young Women’s teacher thoroughly explaining to me the importance of “saving myself” until marriage.
Honestly, there’s nothing wrong with that principle at its heart, as this article states–but it does leave young people struggling horribly to deny themselves until that special person comes along, sometimes unsuccessfully. And, as the author states, in our current educational and economical climate, that particular man or woman might not materialize until well into a person’s twenties–a good ten years at least of wasted youth and fertility.
That’s where I’m struggling now. I’m that hopeful little Mormon, waiting for a man who might have (and rightfully so, this is not a criticism) found me attractive at seventeen, but now has to contend with a woman nearly nine years senior to that classic “marryin’” age. And within the current dating culture, we’d have to date for at least a couple of years before we could even consider marriage, less we incur the wrath of all of our family and friends.
When I explain my concerns to my friends, they claim that marrying young is something that only poor, ignorant people do, or indignantly scoff, “only in Utah!” They then go on to say that no one should marry before they’re thirty. Which, to me, seems totally batcrap crazy.
Everything is so backwards today. Why are we not encouraging young couples to marry AND continue to attend school or advance their careers? With the incredible availability of online classes, combined with night courses and flexible schedules, mothers can continue they’re education at home. They can then get advanced degrees as soon as their young ones start preschool or kindergarten. By that time, their husbands (especially if they’re a few years older) are probably well established in their own careers and are better able to aid their wives accomplish their goals. You know, healthy partnerships and all that.
I remember the first time I really felt emotionally, spiritually, and physically drawn to a young man. I was sixteen, and he was twenty, a guide on an extended pioneer-themed church camp trip called a “trek.” We spent the whole week talking, laughing, playing music (he was an excellent guitarist), and just enjoying each other’s company. After the week was over, and I was forced to return to “real” life, I realized how futile the current marriage scene was/still is. If this young man and I had met under similar circumstances one hundred or so years before that week in 2006, our “courtship” would have been encouraged under the watchful gaze of our families and church leaders–not fervently discouraged by them, as it so happened after we were discovered partaking in the risky business of holding hands by a fire. After a lengthy courtship of a few months or half a year, we might have been married. And we would have been lauded and praised for it, not ridiculed.
Now, the idea of a lush young bride of sixteen and a strapping groom of twenty is viewed as a dangerous anomaly, one I was eventually convinced to avoid at all costs–but I confess, I spent many a night dreaming about Jake the trek guide. I knew logically, of course, that we could never be. But, holy smokes, did that boy look good in canvas britches, flannel shirts, and suspenders.
Also, why do so many women fetishize the “Disney” animated film couples while simultaneously denouncing early marriage? Doesn’t Ariel from “The Little Mermaid” marry at sixteen?
And you have hit on the main weakness of our cultural system: The lack of old-school values isn’t just damaging to men. I’m sure some women who are promiscuous can go their whole lives and be fine but when millennials try to start families its a fucking disaster. I’ve seen seemingly normal great families fall to ruins. It’s bad when our own elders don’t have a clue, hence you being discouraged from marriage at a young age. The American church is so wayward that our pastors and rabbi’s, what have you, look like little girls in comparison to organized religion in the rest of the world. I guess at some point we’re considered sexist and backwards because we expect our wives to act like, well, wives. I went foreign though so I’m having a big laugh at the Modern American anyways
I stopped going to churech because I felt that many of my prayers went unanswered.
Yes of course the pastor still keeps taking your money.
Actually I quit a long time ago.
If Christian boys have a much higher rate of abstinence than Christian girls, it might just be because of a differential in ability to get any. The message the boys get at Church about how to be good men significantly betaizes them, making them sexually unattractive to the girls. Which they respond to by hamsterizing that they are choosing to be abstinent as a virtue, rather than face the fact that they are men without options, and double down on their abstinence.
I can understand the call to abstain from sex at a younger age. Chasing sexual partners can be time consuming and addicting. I believed the “save sex for marriage” line until I graduated college, and I think I benefited from it. While all of my friends were spending hours of their day putting up with women, I was working hard in music studios. While I am not a professional musician or producer, I have a legitimate talent that I am happy that I developed. When I got out of college, I soon realized that I wasn’t going to find a virgin that wasn’t ugly as sin, so I began bedding women. The last thing I wanted was to be the sucker that waited and ended up with a girl that had more partners than years of life.
Summary: Get really good at a thing or two then start filling up the ladies.
What blue pill shit is this, Greek Orthodox churches (and Eastern Orthodox) aren’t supposed to look like this, and they don’t anywhere in the world, Greek Orthodox Churches are adorned with beautiful Byzantine icons and gilded decorations all over the place to appeal to your senses and which remind you that Christianity doesn’t make it an offence punishable by death to depict their most holy of holy, as they do in Islam.
If a church appears to be barren, sterile, and ugly, then you can bet a Catholic was involved in its design.
You can add #4 for Indians in India too.
Brilliant, an excellent article. Growing up in the fundamentalist, evangelical church world like I did, I can vouch for the fact that is all true.
The best and most life saving decision I ever made was to leave the church and go my own way.
If the Churches really preached Christianity fearlessly, things would be different today. Yep its really painful not to have sex when your body says otherwise. Waiting for marriage is a wonderful concept, but the fact is with our culture, Churches encouraging women to recieve useless degrees, establish careers, women will obviously marry in late twentys or early thirties. This means that even if men are willing to marry early no woman will marry them, exception is if every teenager marries a thirty something hag, who will waste away her money on fertility treatments then. Marriage till the age of 18 serves humanity best. The traditional sex roles serve humanity best. All this equality bullshit indicates the decline of mankind
The. Church used to be patriarchy, now it is feminism and mangina beta bullshit. Avoid these men. They do not have a man’s best interests in mind.
Though this has been Christian doctrine for centuries, in point of fact there is no such Commandment among the Ten. “Thou shalt not commit adultery” refers to the deliberate violation of the marital vow of fidelity and constancy. More, Christ never condemned sex between unmarried persons.
The danger of sex between the unmarried inheres in fraud and abuse — using the other person as a thing while expressing love one doesn’t feel or making promises one doesn’t intend to keep. Users should be upfront about it, though it’s hardly necessary to say anything quite as blatant as “I only want you for your mucous membranes.” Absent fraudulent and abusive behavior, it can be practiced and should be tolerated, though as with all human indulgences, there’s always the hazard of gluttony.
Surely, there must be an article here which deals with religion in general, and how rubbish it is.
Quiverfull families encourage young marriage and frown on attending college for women. Women are expected to stay home until they have a heavily chaperoned courtship, in which the father decides who his daughter can date. Mormons approach marriage the same way. Interestingly, the divorce rate is higher in southern states where people marry younger.
Completely concur on these, and I’m Eastern Orthodox.
As EO (Antiochian), however, let me say that I’m completely appalled by the barren monstrosity that the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese (which easily is the most liberal and un-Orthodox administration in America at least) has designed (or commissioned) to replace the church in NY, referenced in this article, is painful to even look at, especially when compared to something like the Joy of All Who Sorrow cathedral (ROCOR) in San Francisco. (Reference: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SpnVgnzmubI/TgP5r5Dlb2I/AAAAAAAAB7U/GLDAL0fSV_k/s1600/holyvirgin.jpg)
I hope those white walls get frescoed gloriously, but, knowing the GOA, I highly doubt that will happen.
P.S. The Russian Orthodox Church, including the ROCOR branch, is one of the most man-supporting churches I know. There is just no comparison between it and the GOA, which has bought into the modern zeitgeist quite thoroughly.
Excellent article, especially number 4. Churches provide zero context for abstention in light of the modern post-feminist, post-industrial world and only exacerbate the situation by discouraging early, skill-based income generation and family forming.
Following their rules, a guy should wait until he’s 30-plus years old, done with school/grad school and (ostensibly) gainfully employed, then find a wife and settle down and only THEN start having sex. Problem is by then, he looks around to his left and right and finds nothing but well-worn American sluts who started putting out at age 15 for the basketball team and never stopped. Chances are he’s been doing the beta-rules way of approaching dating, making his situation all the more confusing and frustrating.
Modern Christian churches aren’t doing the youth of America any favors by adopting the same pointless “keeping-up-with the Jones’s” middle class aspirations we’ve all been fed, post-WW2.
Yes, Christians need to marry younger. And they don’t need to have financial stability first *if* their parents would recognize a responsibility to help support them during their first few years of marriage. It was always thus in earlier, more stable societies.
This financial dependency both helps the new couple get started, but also both binds them to their families and also motivates them to get out on their own and achieve independence.
How the fuck do we expect our children to make it as a couple in this world without help? Young men in some cultures would have their father’s help in building their starter house either just before they got married or just after. It wasn’t a sign of weakness, but of the strength of the family.
A family must be part of a community if it is to have any hope of survival. In the past, it was not Laws that kept marriages together, but communities.