Is A Blue Collar Job for You?

Several ROK writers have offered the trades as an alternative to the debt slavery of a college degree. Instead of sending out sixty resumes a week you can walk into a field with two million unfilled jobs. Being willing to work hard, get dirty, able to follow instructions, like money, and be good at what you do are the only requirements for tradesman.

So all this sounds great and it might be the perfect option for you, but what is it really like making the switch? Has anyone really done it? Well gentlemen, I’m currently in the process and since I’ve gotten so much good advice over the years from Roosh and ROK I feel it’s time to give back.

For the last 10 years I have been the typical contracting office drone with all the trimmings. Car payment, mortgage, the annual short vacation. I am currently making the transition from web designer to pipe welding. It’s been one hell of an adjustment, let me tell you.

Weather

 SMAW

 

If you choose to make the change there are some major factors to consider. First is your tolerance for all weather. If you choose pipefitting or pipeline work, be prepared to freeze or fry. On the coldest day on record in my city I was in an open concrete commercial bay for four and a half hours straight.

The welding leathers and hot steel kept my top half warm but my feet were completely frozen. Next week will be in the 80’s here, so now imagine a rawhide leather jacket plus hot steel plus 85 degrees. Yeah. Part of the money you make is compensation for your discomfort. Or hardiness. Whichever you prefer to call it.

No quiet, air conditioned offices and comfortable chairs in the outside fields, although there are a variety of shop jobs if you can’t stand the weather. The big money is in the field though.

Accidents

Pictured: searing hot middle class

Next on the cons list is the constant threat of getting hurt. Accidents do happen, so if you choose this line of work you should know the risks and go into it with your eyes open. You are dealing with sharp objects, heavy machinery, poisonous chemicals, and high temperatures.

A few weeks ago I had my foot in the wrong place and a drop of molten metal burned through my pant leg and rolled into my boot. I couldn’t get it off fast enough. The guys are still laughing about it. Even on your most careful day sparks will find a way to get to you. I’ll tell you as I was told, “You WILL get burned.”

Also be mindful of your co-workers and what is going on around. Don’t let all this scare you, though. With proper training, safety gear, and awareness of your area you should be fine.

The Classroom

classroom

I bet you’ve heard lots of jokes about dumb welders. I’m sure that stereotype got started for a reason and some guys just learned to weld on the job or in prison, but a becoming a fully trained welder will require you to hit the books.

Welding basic things is simple, but depending on what your specialty is, the learning curve will soar. You’ll spend lots of time learning fractions, measurement, conversions, and calculations you’ll need to make things properly. There are special symbols you’ll need to know so you can work from blueprints. Different welding rods have different properties such as how deeply they penetrate, how much weight they’ll hold, and which types of metal they’ll weld.

Certain types of welding require the use of special shielding gases and you need to know their properties. If you don’t like to read you’ll have a hard time getting licensed. There may be some dumb welders out there, but welding is not for the dumb.

Experience One Of The Last Great Strongholds Of Masculinity

men-at-work

I’m a people person and the trades have no shortage of interesting people. The variety of personalities I’ve met is amazing. Ex-cons, guys looking to get ahead, artists, and kids just out of school looking for a first opportunity. The instructors all had stories enough to fill several lifetimes.

Every person I’ve met so far is far and away more interesting, sincere, and real than the average over-caffeinated office drone in the cube next to you. Teamwork means something different when you are connected by a very heavy object you couldn’t move by yourself. Even when there is competition between you, you are all on the same team. We are all responsible for each others’ safety.

The Money You Make Is Largely Up To You

Underwater_welding

As I began looking at jobs, I noticed that the salaries were not the spectacular amounts I had heard about. After talking to my teacher I learned that all the big money is made running your own shop. You’ll be your own boss, but there’s everything that goes with it. Buying the tools and equipment. Learning what to charge. Getting good people. Dealing with whatever your area’s laws and regulations for welding shops are.

But hey, if you were afraid of a little hard work you wouldn’t be reading this article would you? Also welders are needed all over the world so if you do decide to get a job then why not get one in the Poosy Paradise of your choice?

I’ll end this by asking all you tradesmen out there to comment a bit on your experiences and stuff you wish you had known when you started. See you on the jobsite.

Read More: How A Sitcom Shoved The Blue Pill Down Our Throat

 

159 thoughts on “Is A Blue Collar Job for You?”

  1. When I was 18 or 19 and unsure of what I wanted to major in (I settled on Journalism), my dad recommended that I learn welding. As a kid who grew up comfortable and middle-classed, I of course scoffed at the notion, thinking it was beneath me.
    I’m 34 now, older and wiser, and looking back, I wish I had listened to him. I’m doing okay for myself now with a good-paying job with GREAT benefits (a blue-collar one, no less), but had I heeded his advice back then, I would probably be making six-figures with a comfortable nest of fuck-you money, instead of having a fuck-ton of outstanding (but manageable) student loan debt remaining to be paid off.

    1. A buddy of mine is a welder and made shit for years, now he’s running a shop and banking more than me. I have to hand it to him, he stuck it through, and it finally paid off.

  2. back in grade 12 i used to scoff at people who went to techincal schools cause I was brain washed into thinking only smart people get into university. Now almost done my waste of time and money degree, I revere those exact same people haha.

    1. When I was out of HS running my own small sub contracting construction business by 26, I was ahead financially of all my friends, esp the ones who were in the “systemized” fields like education, healthcare, large corporation shit, etc. But now they have all surpassed me because their fields were insulated greatly from economic downturns.They didn’t work harder, and are smarter in their specific fields only, but they made smarter life planning decisions I suppose. It takes balls to be a front-liner, running a B2B business. It’s literally gambling by bucking the “establishment,” attempting to make your own freedom in a country that is making itself less free on every front.
      You can only be as reliable as the people you rely on too. So either learn to rely 100% on yourself or burn. I don’t blame friends who are less reliable nowadays, since they’re surely dealing with unreliable people of their own which makes them by default not reliable to me. Women I will never rely on and only expect a zero-sum, or deficit experience if I entangle myself with them in my life.

    2. Well 30 years ago they didn’t let any moronic idiot into a University. You had to be accepted into each school you applied and they were much more critical of applicants… the school’s credibility depended on the quality of it’s graduates. My last year in college I knew women getting MBAs who couldn’t speak 2 paragraphs of proper English with making mistakes. I knew school was a f-ing joke after experiencing that.

  3. Great article, one side-note about injuries.
    I would say the biggest thing blue-collar guys need is a form of insurance called “own-occupation” or “own-oc” insurance. (NB: I do not sell insurance or get any money from insurance companies or insurance in ANY WAY, btw. This is just my knowledge–learned from Dave Ramsey, who talks about this on his radio show. )
    Basically, it’s a form of insurance that pays you if you ever become too disabled to do your specific career. If that happens (knock on wood), they pay you basically your salary for the rest of your naturally working life, sometimes in lump sum.
    Note that this is not “disability” insurance or workers comp, which are separate–thus is extra money for injured dudes. And you should make sure the insurance you get isn’t “general occupation” insurance–that insurance only pays if you can’t do any job; so if you’re paralyzed but can still type you won’t collect, since there are cashier jobs/web developer jobs you could do—it’s basically a rip.
    If you’re part of a union or trade organization, ask them if they have “own-occupation” insurance, or talk to the insurance guys. It may be expensive, but it’s worth it if you get a reputable company. Shop around, get an independent insurance agent if your union/trade union doesn’t provide one.

  4. I don’t know.
    I think it’s well within the plans of the feminists that they get all the high paid office jobs and we all drag our knuckles on construction sites until we get replaced with immigrants and then what?
    Also there is a bit of a scam with the “labor” jobs. It’s the retirement age. A typical “knowledge” (lol) worker can live to a ripe old age because they didn’t spend their lives taxing their bodies. When I was working construction I was surrounded by guys in their 40s who looked like they were 60. A lot of guys, even my own dad who was a construction worker for over 40 years, didn’t make it to retirement age before being unable to work (and then didn’t live much longer after 65).
    Fact is we do not have control of our retirement. And because of this, men will be paying into retirement they won’t live to collect.
    But the feminists cunts in HR in the nice air conditioned office and the hour lunch breaks – they will get to retirement age and then live 2 decades more at least voting for more socialist cunts in politics and living on the retirement funds that many hapless blue collar men didn’t live long enough to collect.
    So if we could all be in charge of our own retirement funds and put in more at a younger age and retire when it gets harder to do the job, like when middle age starts, it would be better. Right now if we all go to risky life taxing jobs to get away from the cunts the cunts will have the last laugh living to 90 because they worked jobs easier on their bodies while we die in our sixties.
    I say this as one who watched his dad work backbreaking jobs his whole life and then have to retire from being broken down and spend his last years hobbling around unable to enjoy his retirement (and a fishing boat he finally saved up for and bought and could never use – it had 10 hours on it when he died) and now I think about how he should have had every right to retire at 40 and find something else to do.
    So let’s not allow ourselves to get driven off to hard jobs and early graves. We should be driving the cunts out of HR and back into the loony bins where they belong.

    1. More than that, my neighbor told his kids: don’t become a (carpenter, electrician, plumber, et al.) and he was a carpenter. Why?
      Right wingers assume you are a lazy, shiftless, gouging, “union” scumbag.
      Nobody considers what you do as a skill worthy of pay.
      People look down on you because you work with your hands, but especially “right” minded people.
      Your job is under constant threat from illegal labor.
      Your job is under constant threat by the government (local, state, and federal)
      Engineers think you’re an idiot.
      Architects think you’re a moron.
      You are in constant danger of life and limb, often for substandard pay compared to other skilled jobs.
      That’s the short list. His sons becomes doctors and engineers. He retires in 10 years. Yes, he’s physically broken in comparison to a knowledge worker.

      1. My dad warned me early on of the many reasons to avoid the military and the family business machine shop. I ended up becoming a lawyer. My brother got way-laid by the military for a short while, but is now in law school as well. Pops was right and is also a very happy man now with two white collar sons.

      2. Yeah. This is my point. The feminists don’t want men being doctors or engineers. They want to be the doctor and engineer. Even today I saw on some tech website yet another miserable screed on “why not enough women in tech?”.
        It’s part of the destruction of Western men to relegate us to the hard labor.
        As I saw it personally, I come from a family of blue collar men who all worked hard so their sons could “be something better”. My dad used to tell me “A monkey could do this work. Don’t end up like me”.
        So I tried not to end up like him and had a bumpy road since at every step “they” are either trying to outsource my career to a point where I don’t really have one and then using H1B visas to bring in the other-than-western people to take my job.
        So now I’m supposed to go running back to the life that killed my father slowly and was warned against because women are infesting corporate HR offices and because women vote for other assholes who don’t protect American jobs?
        And like I said, when the hordes of illegals come in and take those jobs, or robots (built by Asian companies who did NOT run men out of STEM) replace us, then what?
        Military service? Like the Prussian model? You know, the one where they made women the ruler of the household and families and men were conscripted to serve (The Hessians for example)? It’s no secret that our education and military system is the “Prussian Model”. Note the infantilization of Western men? Note we call it “Infantry”?
        Hello? Anybody?
        Yeah there are good reasons to be in the trades. I knew an underwater/tech diver specialist who retired at age 30 (well, he was a fag from south Florida who never had a family therefore no wife and kids… oh wait… therefore no divorce rape and child support) but if it’s not to your full potential you are cutting yourself too short.

        1. Always love your posts dok…
          I work half in blue-collar and white-collar environments right now and I see the cons of each.
          The white-collar environment is ultra-PC. To the point where working hard is not celebrated but castrated (might be a Canadian thing). The big worry is that you might offend somebody by showing the smallest amount of self-interest… I should probably read Roosh’s book I think he talked about hating this kind of environment. Today the prof mentioned how we shouldn’t use the word “survive” but “thrive” when talking about evolutionary theory to undergraduates. You know… so students don’t have to think about how cruel nature is. So they don’t accuse my professor of something that could get him fired. Can’t wait to fucking leave this retarded place.
          And with the blue-collar environment, although there is some of that camaraderie the author talks about, there is a trade-off. Talking about intellectual topics can be considered “queer” and I can see that the work itself breaks these people down. More work = more physical stress, more physical stress = higher doses to numb the pain and relax. These are great people but I just can’t relate to them fully, and they’ve already figured out that I’m only gonna work there until I have enough cash to ditch. Good people that are getting the rougher side of society, and have to live equally rough to cope.
          Your point about the women wanting all the kushy jobs so they can take their shot at getting pregnant by one of the higher ups rings true. That wouldn’t even be so bad but it’s like you said… society wont think twice about selling out those tradesman… and then what are they gonna do? Survive that’s fucking what.

        2. Feminists don’t wanna be doctors or engineers. That would imply those whores actually want to work.
          I’d say you need a middle road approach. Learn the trade, do the trade… Part-time. You should be a Renaissance Man in the modern age. I’m a former military truck driver, trained as an EMT, cop, and finishing up a computer science degree. As a kid, I was a painter and dry-wall worker. Gotta have backup plans to your backup plans. If possible, work for yourself and start your own business.
          Remember to minimize your life. Never use credit. Don’t drink too much, avoid drugs. Be at the position of “fuck you” at all times. Always build yourself up to where you can burn everything to the ground and walk away when it’s no longer worthwhile.
          All this… Because in the end? Your family fades, your allies stab you in the back, and when you need them most, your friends are nowhere to be found. Let’s not forget how your special snowflake girlfriend was the first to leave when things went tough. In the end, we stand alone.

      3. I know leftists hate people that actually work, sad to hear that you’ve encountered right-wingers that also look down on tradesmen.
        What kind of fucked up society looks down on people that can actually make shit? I’ve worked in offices… those people are mostly useless outside of that environment, and the value of their work is questionable as well.

        1. ,, I’ve worked in offices… those people are mostly useless outside of that environment, and the value of their work is questionable as well. ” that statement is on the fucking nose !

        2. Ironic that the so-called left is made up of so many people that hate the working man. As for the right, well many are status obsessed, materialistic, idolize business men.. very competitive, right? The political right isn’t a true friend of working men.

        3. “What kind of fucked up society looks down on people that can actually make shit?”
          *points to Europeans.*

        4. Really you think so?
          I’m western European 2nd gen Canadian and a solid chunk of my family is tradespeople. There is no stigma that I have noticed within the niche I’m in.
          You think in Europe people look down on the working man? That’s sad.

        5. The stereotype of a brain surgeon who can’t change a car tire is commonly true. I wouldn’t consider myself a man if I couldn’t do all the basic DIY home, car, computer, electronics repairs I have learned. Sure, often you HAVE to pay to have things done, due to your own time limits and availability, but an enormous amount of people have no clue how to do shit. My HS sweetheart married a Nephrologist who is so stupid he put a bar of hand soap in the dishwasher when they ran out of dishwasher soap. Suds city. This guy tells people if they need kidney transplants or not. Yep.
          Also, there’s a fearlessness about someone who isn’t afraid to attempt building and/or fixing anything whatsoever. What’s freaky is more and more single women I meet are attempting their own home repairs etc.. thanks to Google/youtube I suppose.

        6. The stereotype of a brain surgeon who can’t change a car tire is commonly true. I wouldn’t consider myself a man if I couldn’t do all the basic DIY home, car, computer, electronics repairs I have learned. Sure, often you HAVE to pay to have things done, due to your own time limits and availability, but an enormous amount of people have no clue how to do shit. My HS sweetheart married a Nephrologist who is so stupid he put a bar of hand soap in the dishwasher when they ran out of dishwasher soap. Suds city. This guy tells people if they need kidney transplants or not. Yep.
          Also, there’s a fearlessness about someone who isn’t afraid to attempt building and/or fixing anything whatsoever. What’s freaky is more and more single women I meet are attempting their own home repairs etc.. thanks to Google/youtube I suppose.

        7. Leftists don’t look down on blue collar workers. What you are experiencing is how once liberal people become Republican assholes once they own property or get into a higher tax bracket.
          Why would you be surprised that right wingers look down on tradespeople? They hate unions. Right wingers get by kissing their bosses asses and letting the rich make all the rules.

        8. I think I confused the idea that right-wingers see the world the way libertarians see the world.

      4. I’m a Carpenter in the high end market. I don’t bust my ass, get great benefits and love my life. scrubs are gonna be scrubs.

      5. the illegal labor is such a shame. Our country loves foreigners more than its’ citizens…

      6. If you choose not to care what people think of you, that’s five points gone off this list.

    2. The tax that trade labor can put on your body doing strange movements all day, all day on your feet on concrete, your joints. It really exhausts the human body. I’m all for a hard day’s work, and worked construction until the market shit out 10+ years ago. NOT pursuing a white collar job right out of high school was probably my biggest life’s mistake. I have 2 trashed knees worth of full replacements at 40. To go back into a labor-esque position would be the end of the rest of my body. The bitch is the transition out of it puts you way behind, and way older than the more attractive counterparts wiling to fill white collar roles.
      Flip side being you get away from office politics which as stated are increasingly feminized, and I mean in a large part by feminine acting pussy men, not just women. Not everyone can be an internet jockey for cash, nor a programmer or high science major position. What’s left that is insular to the fem-destruction. Not very much. You really have to dig deep.

      1. I have a lot of aches and pains. I didn’t get them from working construction, I got them from racing dirtbikes. My hearing is shot because I didn’t protect my hearing flying antique airplanes when I was young. I still lift weights too. The important thing about physical labor is proper form. I think genes have something to do with it too. Some guys I know are tore up some go to their 60’s in great shape. I have noticed the people who drink their own personal body weight in alcohol every night are usually the ones that have to hang it up in their late 40’s. There are exceptions to the rule. I will say this, physical labor isn’t for everyone, neither is a white collar job.

    3. Who wants to live past 65? Honestly? Except feeble minded men. Go get a job in the trades. You eliminate women immediately….50 percent of the population……And the other 20 percent are lazy men. 70 percent of the population! When you account that the trades attract (basically) the illiterate (another 15 percent)….you’ve now eliminated even more competition to rise above. You have (basically) NO COMPETITION in today’s trades. Infrastructure jobs will always exist. And….if licensed (like HVAC) YOU HAVE NO ILLEGALS TO COMPETE WITH!
      Kids….fuck this article.

    4. They offer these trades jobs in Spanish at my local community college. I asked the student where he from Guatemala illegal.

  5. Roosh was just mentioned over on Breitbart in a Milo article on Joss Wheadon titled “Avengers Director Joss Wheadon is feminism’s battered wife”. If nothing else, I promise you guys will get a kick out of the article. Hilarious.

        1. Thanks! Looks good already… I need popcorn. Joss is very SJW-ish and I love it when they eat their own.

        2. Read. Enjoyed. Shared! Keep sharing this stuff. I love watching cannibals work!

        1. its actually not disqus its site specific. some sites allow links some don’t its basically trial and error.

    1. This is off topic too, but I think shows the danger of the rape culture feminists and the white knights that defend them. lol

    2. BTW. Any chance one of you guys could share this link on the forum? I don’t have a membership. But I think it’s something everybody would enjoy. Plus, the more people who click on that link, the more likely we’ll be to see more content like that posted over there. IMO, Milo (despite being a gay man) is right up there with Roosh and Heartiste when it comes to pissing off SJW’s. We need to support that guy.

  6. About ten years back I took a five-year break from programming and got a job at a machine shop. I started in deburring and polishing but expressed interest in СNС machines and was trained on the job. Three years later I was a CNC operator, working night shifts and going to colledge during the day.
    Used to come home every morning covered in metal chips and coolant, cuts and bruses on my hands etc.
    Now I work as a Senior Developer, in a nice office with AC, getting paid the big bucks but not a week passes by that I don’t miss the machine shop days. I miss the smell of burning metal shavings and coolant, smell of oil and the noise… There’s something about blue collar job that makes you feel more manly or perhaps it fulfills a man’s need to make something with his own hands.

    1. No job is perfect; they all have their benefits and drawbacks. Civilization and its discontents….

    2. I love that smell! I grew up as the errand bitch in my dad’s machine shop so know it well. It never leaves you. I have actually impressed a few people with my ability to smell welding happening.

      1. I’ve worked on several construction projects. I know what you guys mean. Such a fantastic smell. Similar to a campfire but better.

    3. Being proficient at cutting steel, aluminum or plastic is pretty cool. I’ve been doing it for close to 25 years. However, if I could go back in time and choose a different trade, I would in a second. Wages in this field flatlined 15 years ago. As the margins for profit has tightened, the shop floor has gotten very toxic. The kind of person you are matters little, and to the employer, you are only an extension of the machine you pilot.
      I’m not the greatest machinist in the world, but I program and setup production work and do prototypes for medical, aerospace and defense. After a while, a part is just another part, and soon your skills are taken for granted. I’m sure there are exceptions, but I’ve read about and know first hand that machinists as a whole, are not well compensated and treated with ambivalence. The work itself can be challenging and rewarding, it’s the actual workplace and pay that falls short.
      Right now I’m in search of a way out of the trade. I don’t see anything changing for the better anytime soon.
      I would advise any young man thinking of pursuing machining as a career to be sure he knows what he’s getting in to, and to definitely consider other trades before committing.

    4. That’s it, some things are just satisfying to men, and being able to fix things, and fabricate, gives one a sense of control over their environment.

    1. Looks like someone ended up with a truckload of oversized lingerie and made a bet with a marketer.

  7. I have a lot of respect for any man who is passionate about his trade and proud to work a manual job. My uncle is a welder, he makes a really good living, has a huge house, owns several properties and even drives a ferrari. I remember when I was younger, when we were having family meetings with my cousins, he always told us that “studies are overrated” and also that “real men feed their family working with their hands”. Unfortunately considering that nowadays blue collar jobs are frowned upon, most kids prefer to take the regular college degree route. In some way it became a problem because there are way too many graduates for the available jobs on the market.

    1. I have theorized that it is possible to make HR a computer program and after some high profile cases surface of “HR collusion” in this war with the SJWs – and the reverse discrimination lawsuits that are involved, corporations would be willing to try it.
      I have thought of writing such a program and making it open source. I could not think of a way to hurt the HR cabal more.

      1. the computer is not limited by speed,
        the computer is not limited by scope,
        the computer is not limited by energy,
        the computer does not have to eat, sleep, shit,, it can go 1,million times faster with it’s billions of transistors and go for 24 hours
        however the genius’s required for good automation programming are rare
        Virtual reality developers will be the next gods, and the gods after that will be those which can engineer perfect consciousness into our virtual environments and the gods soon after will be those who can add realistic feeling into the virtual world
        we came into this random world, with it’s randon environments randomly, but now with the power of science we will end the randomness and make a controllable more suitable environment for our consciousness to dwell in pure pleasure

    2. And with every blue collar job that is automated, a new blue collar job is created to maintain it.

      1. “a new blue collar job is created to maintain it.”
        You are dumber than a door knob if you believe that.

      2. Automation = 10 (or more) jobs reduced to 1 overseeing job. The market won’t need that much more product. It’s like assuming there’d be 1000% growth in the automated sector you’re considering. Better breed like Genghis Khan.. Oh wait. The world can’t scale to that capacity without scores of death, war, disease, famine, and destruction.

        1. The world cannot scale to any capacity without death, disease, famine, and destruction. These go hand in hand with humanity like a girlfriend at a horror movie.

    3. You can thank the so loved technology advancement for that (morons in this site seem to think tech advancement is good)

  8. I work in a landscaping job. It is kinda blue-collar but unskilled, so it doesn’t pay much. I am surprised a Mexican didn’t steal my job yet.

  9. I now of guys who work in high end manufacturing operating machinery that produce parts for Boeing.
    Six figures plus benefits.

  10. I haven’t read the article, just glanced over it… Everything, and in particular blue collar jobs, between outsourcing and automation, are going to vanish.People better start coming to terms with this..

    1. If you guys are interested in this topic, the video is not entirely an exaggeration.
      We can already simulate human brain computation for perception and action.
      Check out the link below if you’re interested. This brain simulation (2.5 million simulated interconnected neurons) can for example see a visual object through a camera, process the “retinotopic” information, and convert it into arm output to draw the image it recognizes…
      I don’t see why we could not in principle emulate the human brain if we continue to increase the limits of computational hardware. Met these guys at a venture capitalist conference and spent half the time with a furrowed brow in front of their kiosk. Brainiac…
      http://nengo.ca/build-a-brain/spaunvideos

      1. The leap will happen in maybe 20-30 years from now, but tell that to Brigadon.. Quantum computers will become reality..They’re already manipulating several atoms as we speak. Here’s the thing.. Today computers, when it comes to what really matters, can only approximate a solution. Most of the problems we’re trying to solve, are not solvable in a reasonable amount of time regardless of how much hardware we throw at it.. It’s something called exponential running time. Today’s machines can’t do it, but quantum computers will. They will be able to give us the result to any problem, instantly.
        Then we’re talking about super intelligent machines, in other words the quantum leap.
        Add to all these nanotechnology (where the fucking pipes won’t clog or burst, LOL so no need for plumbers) and it’s a different ball game.

        1. To see this as an impossibility only shows a lack of study in this field. These issues are being broken down and solved.
          I studied philosophy of AI in undergrad and major leaps have been made in just the last 5-10 years. Machine-learning, pattern-recognition, visual-processing, behavioural output… once an underlying AI problem is understood and solved, new ideas and applications can grow from that exponentially.
          I want to get a comp.sci degree to get in on the fun (and not get left behind) but I am not ready to go back to school yet. But yeah this shit is gonna happen whether we like it or not.

  11. I’ll tell you what my Dad told me a long time ago. He said that you wanted to have a job that people had to have done. We were repair plumbers, so that made sense. Repair personnel can’t be outsourced. I’ve been a code welder when the Plumbing was slow. Seems to me that a man really needs to evaluate just how necessary a trade is. Look at what’s going to happen to truck drivers. Plumbing, Electricians, Heating and Cooling…..all on the repair side of course. New construction waxes and wanes, so be aware. Whatever you do, don’t expect a counselor to know what he’s talking about. Welding is okay, Pipe fitting is great, but, and here’s the big but……it’s like the oilfield, boom and bust. And here’s the sweetner to the deal…..if you’re handy with your tools, there’s always side work. And, last but not least, minimal feminist presence.
    You’ll notice I didn’t mention the other construction trades. There’s a reason for that. Painting, sheetrock, tile, carpentry are all dependent on outside forces. I’ve seen builders go bankrupt right in the middle of a big job……everyone took it in the shorts. A small enterprise is best. You don’t have to have new tools. Pawn shops can have good deals, as well as ebay. The real objective is to survive the coming civil war. Small towns are best.

    1. I tend to agree with you… for now. Think about modular homes, built by robots and assembled by other robots on site, and all components fitting perfectly. If everything is standardized, it is conceivable sometime in the future having a robot knock at your door, and replacing the broken pipe in 2 minutes.
      And keep in mind, machines can learn from experience… and share the new knowledge with other machines instantly.

        1. I don’t see ‘fixing’ jobs going away, ever. Everything needs maintenance.If one type of fixer becomes obsolete, retrain for the NEW type of fixer that it opens up.
          I spent several years as a repair plumber. There is ALWAYS more work than there are people to complete it.

        2. The one thing about “fixer” jobs is they kind of suck. It’s all set up time, and cramped awkward tweaking your body to fix things, but the customer doesn’t consider that so they feel like:”Holy shit $375 for a sink repair and main line snaking, wtf?” You have drive time, insurance costs, vehicle maintenance. It’s a living for sure, but not easy, and can be inconsistent.

        3. I think market saturation for fixer jobs is location dependent. I’d bet bigger cities are all in demand, where medium and smaller cities can be flooded with small companies.

        4. Oh my god, Life might occasionally contain unpleasantness! I wonder if a tribe of men chasing a mastadon that could kill them a hundred miles through a blizzard just to eat occasionally experienced unpleasantness or inconsistency?

        5. in my experience, for every community that is flooded, there is another one less than ten miles away who’s last competent plumber just retired or died.

    2. That’s why welding repair is great, all refineries, power plants, drill/offshore rigs break down and have continual work being done so there’s always work on that side of the oil field

    3. I owned a sheetrock business and you’re damn right. When the builders went down, they took thousands owed to me in bankruptcies right down with them and buried me. Plus, pick a trade that is least affected by all other trades and weather. Sheetrock is practically the most affected trade by all other trades. And the builders bitch about “nickel diming” them to death for repair costs because a plumber had to move a pipe, a roofer had a leak, a framer can use straight wood or read a tape, an electrician moved 10 outlets. And the unionized tradesmen who work on commercial-only jobs, sure they are more safe, but you have to play politics and buddy-up the food chain to remain first pick with your company, or out of the union hall. So that’s a big-boys ass kissing club filled with politics too. Seems like the iron workers, pipe fitters, and boiler makers, and some tool & die guys are all doing pretty well however.

    4. it’s the difference between an infrastructure and an option trade.
      Infrastructure trades never go belly up. a plumber, welder, carpenter, electrician, or even cement layer, fisherman, roofer, or logger can always find work, even if he has to move to get it. Painters, drywallers, glaziers, cableguys, stereo installers, cabineters, carpetlayers, these trades have periodic dry spells punctuated by rushes of work, and sometimes these dry spells can occasionally last a very long time.
      You can tell the difference between an infrastructure and an option trade by asking yourself, “Is it absolutely neccessary’? If the answer is ‘no’, or if someone playing ‘do it yourself’ can get the same, if far inferior, functionality, then the answer is ‘option’. but if the answer is that someone trying to do it themselves can wind up with less functionality or killing someone, and if it cannot be done without, then the answer is ‘infrastructure’.
      Infrastructure trades are bank. Option trades are a lot like any other industry… they can succeed, or they can fail, based upon market viability.

    5. You’re right about heating and cooling. Was middle of winter and my heater crapped out. Called an HVAC dude . He worked at $100/hr and was glad to pay it. Thinking how useless I was and NECESSARY these dudes are as I woulda froze, my house pipes burst and I woulda been fucked….

  12. One of the perks (or problems, depending on your viewpoint) of welding is that the work you do is literally life or death.
    A weak weld can kill someone.
    To be an independent welder requires a big ol’ welding truck. The truck’s not a monster like a mechanic’s truck, but it’s still an investment.
    I worked with a guy who burned his eyes. He got a tiny crack in the glass of his welding mask and basically got a sunburn on the sclera of his eyes.
    That is a whole other world of pain.

    1. They test your welds tho so that really shouldn’t be a problem unless you are doing favors on the side and the flashburn on the eyes does hurt like hell but only last a day, you basically cry uncontrollably till you run out of tears then eye drop the shit out of your eyes till your tears come back

  13. lol this article: ” Being willing to work hard” “the only requirements”
    …..to make good money and get advanced tickets and be good at your job you need a work ethic and brain like every other profession, you also need years of experience , certification exams are very difficult and set up for you to fail as many times as possible because usually the union pays for your exams and writes them off as “personnel training costs” in their taxes so the certification centers where you go to do your exams know this and make them very difficult so that they can bill you or your company for re-writing as many times as they can get away with, that’s the game, and they also go by “multiple attempt rules”, meaning, you need a brain to get $ just as much as any other profession,
    The dumb “redneck” welder…
    That is all 1950’s unfortunately, while the trades may not be particularly difficult, in an attempt to make meaningless money from certifying you, a whole labyrinth process has been set up to make it painful and costly so that others may parasitically drain your time and $ to give themselves a job, so these days you have a mountain to climb to get “certifications” so you pay , pay pay pay pay pay for their “training” which you have no choice but to get
    You used to be able to pass one test for a driver’s licences, Well now a days you need to get 3 classes to be unrestricted!! That means class 1, class 2, and class 3 all for job creation and paying for unnecessary training,
    Trades have turned into an “education racket” like everything else. There is no advantage and you WILL be breathing in other people’s toxic chemicals all day, and a lot of them are dumb enough to smoke ontop of it
    After this you will need years of hours just to meet the requirements for the advanced tickets you will need for your 6 figure salary (which is very common in these redneck trades)
    There is no such thing as “easy money”
    The way the job market works is this, “skill scarcity” or “qualifications/certification scarcity” The more people with your skill, the more you compete for jobs and the lower the salary becomes, if there is a barrier to entry into a position and a high demand, the barrier to entry being experience, and brain power, than you have an edge on the rest of the market
    there is nothing particularly special about any field
    what makes you think trades people are idiots? Getting advanced tickets is as difficult as any other “universe city” lalaland bullshit degree and that is only half the battle, being sociable and likeable and networking to get on the best gigs is the other half of the game

    1. Getting certs doesn’t cost anything, I’ve never paid for a weld test and it doesn’t matter how many you pass cause you’ll always have to retest for a new company

      1. I think certs are better than a damn degree anymore anyhow. They’re more specific to what ACTUAL specific task needs to be done. I know scores of guys with bachelor’s degrees working the line at production facilities. It’s retarded.

        1. Yea it’s good to have more certs with every company cause every welding rod has a test to get certified or thickness of metal or whatever weld procedure they come up with but those certs are only good for that company and once you leave for a new company you’ll just have to retest all over again, but the more the better cause then you are more valuable than the guy who isn’t certified for whatever metal they need welded

  14. Welding is good choice, I’m gonna be 30 soon and have been welding on the road since 18 and I’ve been making six figures since 20. I’m not trying to boast but I’ve been on here before telling guys to get into welding even if it’s for a short time because for the amount of money you can make its worth it. You can learn the bare minimum in 18 months at a trade school so you can get your foot in the door then you learn the rest as you go. I started off building water towers then flat bottom tanks in refineries to offshore then back to refineries welding specialty alloys and the money keeps going up cause the need for welders keep increasing. Right now the average pay for the nonunion double time companies is around $38 and double so you make $38 the first 8 hours of the shift then double for anything else and you’ll always work at least 10 hours but usuall 12 then double time all day Saturday and Sunday. I’m working prefab in billings Montana now taking home 3k on 50 hours a week. There’s ton of work out there so if anybody is interested here’s my email [email protected]

    1. true i know a welder who made 250,000$ a year but worked his ass off
      for people who are aggressively trying to get ahead it could be a good gig but long road to climb, no such thing as “easy money” no guts no glory no pain no gain,a single man who wants to be rich welding is good, in terms of being able to work as much as you want

      1. True but if you are reasonable with spending you could easily work hard for a few years and get ahead or do contract work like I do so you can pick and choose your jobs once you make a name for yourself or make some contacts. I know guys who only work 6 to 8 months a year then take the rest off to hunt and fuck off and still break 100k or you could take a shop job which usually sucks but still make decent money and be home every night if you aren’t willing to travel

    2. The secret is non union.
      I would pay a man twice as much for the same work if he isn’t union. not having to deal with the union bullshit is worth it.

      1. yea I’m non Union, from what I’ve seen and heard the only way to get ahead in the union is to be family and pretty close to the guys up top otherwise you’ll barely work while they demand their dues being paid on time

  15. Top level auto technicians are in big demand. You can go to a trade school, or find a shop that will hire you with no experience if you can. It takes a few years, but you can make good scratch. It’s a masculine atmosphere and indoors. I wouldn’t suggest a dealership unless you don’t mind office politics. You can get paid by a salary or by job hours completed. I put in my time, and now have my own shop. It’s a highly technical field so replacement with robots won’t happen any time soon.

    1. That’s actually the biggest thing right there. educated but with no experience at the job, blue collar can still find a job to get you the experience.
      White collar? The only way to get ‘in’ is to start out ‘in’. entry-level jobs require 3+ years of experience that you simply cannot get or must lie about.

      1. Yes. Just show the MAN who is interviewing you that you are eager to learn and and will bust your ass. Good chance you will get the job.

  16. Blue collar job is still respectable field in my opinion. I have done blue collar job before and having an experience and skills with hard labor does give you an edge. I know most white collar people who are great with office jobs and are tech savvy with computers but yet do not know simple task like changing oil and rotating tires which is the basic simple automotive skills. It’s a shame because some people look down on blue collar jobs because they require you to sweat and you have to get your hands dirty doing it. Most people think of blue collar job as just slaving but you also have to have knowledge in the field and also require deep thinking and brain.

    1. You’re not going to change the way people think about blue collar jobs just like how people think about short men.

    2. I have a lot of respect for people doing hard work, because I’ve done it too some time ago..
      I just picked on Brigadon on this thread because he should learn how to talk to other people first. We’re trying to exchange ideas not fight and insult each other… Some just never learn the basics..

      1. Yes, but ‘ai taking over the world’, like flying cars, teleportation, automated highways, force fields, and a way to make a really decent french fry without doing it by hand, are so in the realm of Science fantasy that you might as well be lending serious credence to flying saucers and telekinesis.
        It’s a fun idea for a book, movie, or role-playing game, but anyone that seriously expects ai to replace human judgement to the point where humans are irrelevant has got spray paint around his mouth.

        1. You really have no idea what you are talking about. Don’t bring baking cookies into this discussion please.

        2. Hey, how about fucking yourself? I am sure technology will ‘soon exist’ to allow you to do it easily.
          You prattle on about ‘the future’ like every other stupid fucking social justice progressive who thinks all of their problems will ‘go away’ due to technology, socialism, telepathy, whatever.
          let me give you a little clue by four, since you seem to have failed to notice it despite it being in your fucking face for the whole time you have been alive.
          Technology is a thin veneer over the face of the animal that is man. It does not ‘change him’, ‘make him better’, or create a ‘new man’ that is not the same old man that existed 4000 years ago. It can crack with relative ease, and does very very frequently, showing the instinctive animal that is man.
          The only thing that lasts, that has withstood the test of time and continues to be recognized, if oft maligned, are the cardinal virtues: Faith, Integrity, Foresight, Willpower, and Strength.
          As long as one possesses those virtues, there will NEVER be a time when technology will ‘shut you down’. technology is ultimately highly frangible, and every advancement requires literally a host of humans at every step to maintain, build, design, innovate, and use.
          You see technology as ’emptying jobs’ without restoring others, but that is because you have allowed the corporate wool to be pulled over your eyes… Are you aware that virtually every third world economy on earth that has been improving is directly as a result of our shipping all the jobs technology has created overseas?
          In short, tech does not eliminate jobs… it actually CREATES jobs. But WE, the end users of technology, never SEE those jobs. Eliminating 1 American auto worker with a robot employs ten little brown men with bad eyesight that make 30 cents an hour. So in short, improvements in tech are not eliminating jobs, they are simply shifting the work to where it is cheaper.
          THAT is why it will never improve. Libertardians much vaunted ‘free market’ and the technology shift simply opens the world up to exploitation, and destroys nations, both the wealthy and the poor. Your ‘AI revolution’ is an absolutely ludicrous fantasy that, if it ever comes to pass, will exist only to shift more labor overseas.

        3. “Hey, how about fucking yourself? I am sure technology will ‘soon exist’ to allow you to do it easily.”
          Thank you very much. As a matter of fact, it does exist. Look into the virtual/remote sex stuff.
          Did you copy and paste from my other posts on this thread, deep shit? It’s exactly what I said when it comes to jobs being shifted. I’ve also explained when and under what circumstances will you see jobs coming back. Granted, not your plumbing kind… Pipes will be enhanced by nano technology, and there will be no need for you… Pipes will never go bad.

          As to deny the existence of AI and its benefits today, only shows you are dumb as fuck.
          And btw, commie.. The corporations do what they’re supposed to do: make money for their shareholders. They’re not in the charity business. So much your peanut size brain understands, yes? Don’t disappoint me.

        4. Seriously? Your understanding of corporate culture does credit to a mongoloid baboon. Corporations and socialist government are quite literally incapable of existing without each other, so much so that corporate expansion is the greatest reason countries go to war today.
          As far as ‘AI’ is concerned, you frankly have NO idea. the closest thing we have is what is known as ‘expert systems’, and they have the same relation to ai that sticking your tongue on a 9 volt battery has to getting hit by lightning.
          I like how you have managed to embrace the concept of ‘anti-social socialist’, though.
          Hey, the insult fight is fun. I hope you aren’t taking them too seriously? While I do consider broad-scale AI a total pipe dream, I think it’s more a factor of western culture’s burgeoning, slow-motion collapse rather than a complete invalidity of the concept, although again, like the flying car, while I think the technology is possible (although not with current digital systems) there are far too many obstacles to be overcome.
          People are people, and for the same reason the flying car will never truly come to fruition (it technically already exists) decent AI will never become much more than another tool and toy, like smartphones or maglev.

        5. Dude, I’m a software engineer. Not a chop shop programmer that floated ashore on their dead mother’s backs.
          MS in Computer Science, hardest school you can find around. Done in the U.S., so my diploma doesn’t have any snakes and elephants on it.
          Don’t pretend you know this better than I do. I’ve been doing this stuff for longer than you’ve been alive probably. You are out of your league. You’re only talking fairy tales you’ve been reading on blogs like this. Not as serious source of info, if you ask me.

        6. Yeah, big deal, I got my BA in electrical engineering back when that was ‘computer programming’ at BYU. I have seen the coursework for ‘computer science’ by today’s standards, and It’s the kinda crap you would do as nothing more than a Naval RM coursework.
          It’s kind of a wonder that you fall into the same trap as the uninitiated in thinking that computers are ‘smart’. Computers are, literally, incredibly stupid.
          The fact that you even refer to expert systems as ‘AI’ makes me suspect that your programming knowledge comes from coding minecraft mods.
          So don’t try to pull this “I am the expert, I know better than you do” crap on me, child. there’s a reason proof by authority is a logical fallacy.

        7. yeah, whatever.. go back to playing with your daddy razors. BA in EE… LOL. OK. Half of that is general courses BS.
          I never said expert system are the same as AI, btw
          And it’s not about reason proof by authority.. Fuck that. I will talk to anybody who is not close minded. I don’t give a shit. But you are close minded, and you don’t even know what you don’t know.. You can’t tell me the sky is not blue.. WTF?
          I have done all the possible jobs.. low pay/blue collar etc. so I am not biased and no silver spoon here, but I can’t waste my time with you anymore. Seriously..
          All I have said in this thread was trying to make people not delusion themselves and if one can’t clearly see the trend, and what’s going on around them then there is not much I can do about it… And I know you are one who can’t.. You called me an idiot right off the bat. Be that way. Good luck. You’ll need a lot of it.

        8. and I have stated flatly that full judgement AI in our time is a pipe dream. There is no way that all the items in our infrastructure will ever be able to be fully, or even reasonably, serviced by machines alone.
          So yes, stating that we are going to see full AI in our time is as ridiculous as flying cars, automated freeways, or replicants… in fact, replicants are a far more reasonable expectation considering how easily one can trim RNA chains for accelerated aging and a limited lifespan.
          1. It is not cost effective. The amount of wear and tear on automated parts actually leads to higher costs, both for initial installation and for long-term maintenance. The automotive industry is just now discovering that fact.
          2. judgement calls in real-world applications are almost impossible to program for, and even the most talented ‘guessing’ software, once you move it out of the realm of full VR, is almost instantly faced with questions that cause it to spit out an error or choose inappropriate preprogrammed solutions. We are not talking about bots for Unreal tournament here, we are talking about a machine deciding whether a heart vein surgery would be better served by a stint or a full bypass. While I am perfectly willing to admit a ton of things can be automated, and a robot can potentially perform surgeries a thousand times more delicate than a human hand could ever hope for, behind that machine there HAS to be a human mind guiding it, and that human mind is going to be a fully qualified surgeon.
          3. Humans do NOT like dealing with machines the way they do humans. Anyone that has ever been on an automated call center line know full well that an automated response flat-out pisses people off. No one is going to believe an AI that says ‘we are sorry for your inconvenience’. Any job that requires speaking is always going to require a human front end, or people can and will reject it. I understand that you think this country that you grew up in is always going to exist the way it does now, but over the last 40 years I have seen it change ENORMOUSLY. One thing that remains the same is the disdain people hold for ‘talking to a machine’, because a machine is stupid, cannot make decisions, and cannot be swayed from policy even by the best logic.
          5. Your assumption that our highly technological western society will even exist long enough to churn out some sort of frankenthinker. I am not even going to go into the huge variety of reasons why our society, in it’s present state, has a lifespan of less than a decade. What will come after is anyone’s guess, but I can guarantee it will NOT be a technocratic free-market paradise.
          A lot of people think machines are ‘logical’, but you know full well the truth behind that… Machines are only logical when you PROGRAM them to be logical. Policy is often utterly illogical, and policy, when programmed to be dominant, will automatically ignore logic when it conflicts with programmed policy.
          If a ‘robot cop’ were to be programmed to even the best standards of AI today, for example, and it broke into a domestic dispute, it would ignore the fact that the man is naked and handcuffed to the radiator and covered with minor cuts and bruises. It would dutifully haul the male away, despite mountains of logic pointing at the fact that the male was abused, because ‘policy’ dictates that the male, unless unconscious, dead, or injured badly enough to be sent to the hospital, is always the ‘primary aggressor’.
          We deal with SJW shit enough as it is… do you REALLY think that anyone would fail to destroy, sabotage, or otherwise disrupt machines that are (and they would be) designed with politically correct ‘logic’?
          No, ‘true ai’ is indeed a total pipe dream, and it should be, because while many of us would have trouble shooting a cop or killing a manager, there is no such human limitation to destroying a Frankenstein. And as you may have noticed, many groups have been doing that frequently already.
          I am not talking about the indominatable human will, I am talking about bored, pissed off teenagers, who can, and will, prevent any sort of ai-controlled society.

        9. It’s a little more than that.. You think in terms of what we have right now (ANI-this is only the first stage), but the dots point differently. While I agree with you partially this can go two different ways from here… It all depends on who will control it. Read this.. If nothing else, is a very interesting take on things.
          http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html
          http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-2.html
          And the Fermi paradox as a bonus.. Interesting as well..
          http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html

        10. I think in terms of human interaction.
          Let me ask you a question, would you trust a smart system bus driver? I don’t mean something automated on a closed track, I mean in the real world, on real roads.
          I would not. Value weighting is something humans do constantly as easily as breathing, it is what won us the top of the food chain. If there’s a potential accident, would the bus put more weight on the two dozen adult and aged passengers, or the dozen preschoolers that are in the crosswalk? Even if a cat gets in the way, for example… a real bus driver would likely swerve to avoid the cat, inconveniencing the riders, as long as he weighed the risk of harm to be minimal, knowing full well that that cat is someone’s beloved pet.
          There are a thousand factors to be considered constantly in the real world, and while logic should (obviously) be the primary factor, there is still some value in emotionalism as long as you are dealing with real human beings.
          There is also the cost benefit factor. One can certainly go for ultimate production efficiency with an automated system, but in many, most ways, once you leave the mass production line humans become vastly more efficient. They are self-replicating, the better ones require a minimum of training, and they exist on the cheapest of caloric fuels. At what point does one give up the human factor altogether?
          I am not saying that some day Humans may completely automate almost all processes involved in day to day living, but it is not happening HERE or NOW. Call me a luddite if you wish, but the first automated truck, airplane, or bus is going to be the target of as many explosives as I can load in the damned thing… Judgement should be left to humans that can weigh both logic and emotion, including such values as honor, decency, and faith.
          Frankly, I don’t see industrial society continuing at the rate it is continuing… technological progress is slowing down dramatically from the stretch of the 1900’s, the second rennaissance is drawing to a close, and unless a new, brilliant, vibrant culture develops from the ashes of our current one, a third rennaissance is impossible… and that’s what true thinking machines would require, an entirely new developmental rush and quantum leap in computer technology.

        11. At and infinitely granular level, emotions can be broken down to their discreet logical components and their interactions. With enough compute power they could be coded I believe.. As a matter of fact there are already experiments where humans can not distinguish they are talking/interacting with a machine or another human (goes back to your automated call service). Anyway, read those articles. I’ve got to go now.
          Pick up Society of Mind by Marvin Minsky too.

        12. BTW, I don’t like that explanation of the fermi paradox because it completely ignores a host of possible explanations because they are not ‘sciency’ enough, while giving weight to the zoo hypothesis even though it is considerably less likely.
          I am not particularly a believer in the divine or supernatural, but I do not have ‘faith’ that they do NOT exist either. The point being, that while we seem to have a reasonable grasp of some of the laws of physics in our area of space, we know absolutely nothing about anything outside of that area, we do not know if alternate dimansions exist, or alternate universes, we do not know if the mass outside of our solar system is real or ‘shadow matter’, and to be perfectly frank, aside from gravitational anomalies and radiation, we haven’t the slightest clue if the laws of physics as we understand them even operate at all outside of the boundaries of our own solar system.
          Basically we simply do not know, and while I thoroughly appreciate the fact that some theoretical scientists are trying desperately to figure it out, I find the fact that they regard explanations that do not conform to our current knowledge level ‘unscientific’ reprehensible.

        13. “we do not know if alternate dimansions exist,”
          The only thing we have passed a certain point, is the mathematics. And the math suggests that is a possibility. Can we experimentally prove it? No. It’s kind of like this.. In computer science there is this thing called NP complete problems. You can look it up on wikipedia. A lot of info there. Well, one interesting part of this set of problems is.. first of all MOST of the solutions we’re looking to solve are NP complete (i.e. they can not be solved in a polynomial manner, they are exponential.. in other words the running time has the input as the exponent to the formula). So… There is no known algorithm that can solve the NP complete problems down to an exact solution (except for brute force, and that of course is exponential so we didn’t accomplish anything). There is a Nobel price bounty on it too. The reason there is a Nobel price on it is because there is no mathematical proof they can NOT be solved in a polynomial fashion. More over there is a mathematical proof that says if we can solve ONE of these in polynomial running time then we can solve ALL of them. If this doesn’t boggle the mind, then I don’t know what is… So what am I trying to say? Not having proof, it does not mean it doesn’t exist. And it also goes the other way if you will.. When faced with these kind of issues one is somehow forced to turn to faith because there is nothing else there.. I don’t believe in God, but you know what I mean…

        14. yes, I am highly familiar with the turing test. You set a human into a foreign environment, talking or typing through a blank wall, and try to determine if he is capable of distinguishing between an artificial system and another human.
          The only reason the turing test is considered even remotely valid is because it has captured the public imagination… but like designing a bot for a VR environment, the very falsity of the environment is one of the primary factors in promoting versimilitude.
          You want a true turing test? Create a robot that is capable of having a relationship, with a woman, while holding down a job, dealing with his family, his finances, and his friends. When an ai can deal with all of that and convince everyone he is human, then I will believe that the ‘turing test’ has truly been passed. That is not even a requirement for ‘perfect proof’. high-functioning autistics, psychopaths, and really stupid men do it all the time.

        15. Again, you are talking from an ANI stand point, and you are right if all things are equal. However, I am looking at what’s coming and mostly, that’s what I am talking about. I bet you didn’t read those articles.. and that’s fine..
          Also,
          The comparison is not valid. AI is not human (and nobody claimed otherwise) and it doesn’t make sense for IT to have a relationship etc. It maybe could; from an intelligence or emotional intelligence point of view, if you will. .The better question is, if you want to go down that path, would a woman want to have such a relationship? It takes two, so your example does not compute. And yet, another question.. how do you know we’re not running inside an AI simulation? I was reading this guy claims to have discovered error correction computer code embedded in the string theory equations. I don’t quite believe it, but if it’s true then it’s all really fucked up..
          How about this for a mind bent? Imagine, all your senses are severed from the external reality, and bits and bytes are fed into them by a machine after. Your brain would not be able to distinguish the new reality. So theoretically, you would live in a VR but it would seem as real to you as it is you walking outside, seeing the sun, feeling the wind, talking to your friends right now… so yes, the Matrix…What I’m saying, it’s all relative, and it actually raises a bigger question: is there free will?
          On a different mind bending note…If you want to push it further, what is a human then? At the core of it, it’s continuity, and nothing else.. Continuity can not be faked. It either is or it’s not.. Faking a human outside that? with all its issues? I think that’s doable in the near future. Again, this guy took the time to think about and explain this better than I could.
          http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/12/what-makes-you-you.html

    3. Not to mention knowing your shit prevents you from being taken to the cleaners when you get your car worked on at a shop. You may not have the tools to do it yourself, but you would know if that service advisor starts talking bullshit when he recommends you need to change your master cylinder when you’ve replaced and bled the lines yourself on many occasions.

  17. Why have trades always been looked down upon, versus college degrees, when they make great money? Even I stupidly looked down at them while I went to college. I went through 4 years of college to major in chemistry, and at graduation just sat there waiting for my name to be called thinking “what the hell did I even learn in these 4 years?” I didn’t learn a damn thing on how to actually make money. And for over 10 years I had to pay $129/month towards student loans.
    I’m 35 years old now, and I still kick myself at the lost opportunities a trade would have given me. With so much information out there about how much bullshit college is, I still can’t believe so many kids still go. I guess that idea of getting a 4 year degree is so indoctrinated into people’s minds.

    1. Maybe you made the right choice, maybe not, but don’t be hard on yourself. I took chem for one semester before dropping out. Chemistry is no joke. Be proud.

    2. Yeah but on the contrary, if you were a tradesman right now you may have looked back and said “I wish I would have gone to college.”

  18. You guys do know immigrants usually take your jobs because they take less pay?
    Blue collar work in other countries are paid less than in the US as there is no hazard pay you are living the high life.

  19. Just thought I’d mention something else……Artificial Intelligence will really change the basic office structure as we know it now. Once we have A I supervision of our economy, certain things will become obsolete. The government has long used essentially worthless make work jobs for feminists who are otherwise unemployable. That’s why the Democratic party has such a lock on the women’s vote. Point is, and it’s coming, middle management women are going to be laid off in droves.
    Okay, you’re a young guy looking to make your mark in the world. How is this going to affect you? Well, you won’t be able to count on an office career. Take a hard look at the trades. It’s your ass…..choose wisely.

    1. AI will change everything.. As you said, even white collar jobs. That’s for sure. Think about doctors.. People say, nah.. not doctors.. Bull shit. As soon as the technology comes to age we will get surgery done remotely by some guy in China or India or who knows where. Diagnostics, analysis everything will go where it’s cheaper.. It doesn’t mean it’s going to be worse, I don’t know.. But it’ll be cheaper for sure.
      And what are we going to do here? I have no idea. Maybe we’ll all gonna just sit on our ass, do nothing and have everything done for us. Maybe it’s not such a bad deal afterall… it’ll all look very different soon, within this generation.

      1. The government will have to pay a percentage of the population to not work, and to purchase things so some people can work so companies can make a profit to pay taxes so they can pay people to not work and purchase things…………….

        1. Sure.. By taxes made by corporations offshore. The corporations may sell here, or may sell elsewhere. Money is money, it doesn’t matter where it’s coming from.
          A lot of people bitch about outsourcing. I understand the immediate pain this may cause to some. However few bring up the point that if not for outsourcing, the stuff we buy daily had it been manufactured here would cost at least 3 times that if not more. So something’s gotta give and apparently this trend is not reversing. I believe in the near future, hell.. we’re already doing that now.. we’ll only produce 3 things here: information, money and weapons. That’s it. And the 3 are linked together, if you think about it.

        2. The only problem with that is everyone will be on welfare. Welfare usually barely pay the bills. There is no way to improve your position in life if there are no jobs. The wealth gap will be too large.

        3. The gap will be large, I agree. No question about it.. It is my opinion, jobs will not come back here before the world in general will reach our technological level. And the reason is simple.. The corporations will move around to where they can find cheap labor. As soon as the labor costs in that particular location goes up, off they go elsewhere. Look what happened to China and south east Asia They are expensive now.. Move over to India, then next and next until there’s no where to go.. Only then they’ll come back. It’s simple arithmetic.
          But here’s the wrinkle.. Technology came to a point where it’s advancing exponentially. Those countries will not have to go through all the stages we went through.. Look at China.. they jumped for a nation of peasants to where they are now in maybe 15 years..And these required time increments become less and less..Raising everybody to our level might not take that long.

        4. Yea, we will be the ones trying to get into third world countries illegally to find work.

        5. No… I really don’t think so.. Welfare will increase as we make more and more money.. Not welfare as we know it now.. you know what I mean… Kind of like most of the Saudi Arabia population living off their oil.

        6. That’s dangerous. The government or businesses deciding who will get it and how much with no other recourse, things may get ugly fast. If you think the government is corrupt now…..

        7. Yes, the government is corrupt. That’s a different discussion. Maybe we should “uncorrupt” it. Do you know who’s one of the biggest in welfare? Norway is. But over there corruption is non existent, and things work.. Besides they’re getting their money for the oil in the North Sea. Yeah, corruption is a big monkey wrench in all these.

        8. What I meant was, the government will have us performing tricks for their entertainment, just for a chance for a bigger piece of the pie, or maybe to get any piece at all. Way too much control.

        9. I agree with you, I don’t like the current corrupt government.. Maybe we should replace them with robots too and roll off the guillotines in the process.. I’m sure the machines will do a better job than the muppets we have in charge right now.

        10. It was a joke. But hey, you have to admit that the computers would probably have a bigger heart than our current politicians!

        11. No, seriously if she wins, and she might we’re screwed. The U.S. won’t be able to withstand another 8 years of clusterfuck. We already have 16 of those under the belt.

        12. Did I hear correctly that the republicans are nominating a woman to battle Hillary, so she can’t cry sexism? They will actually have to debate real issues.

        13. I don’t know man, I’m not following. I don’t own a TV, so whatever filters to me through the alternate media. That would be really stupid if you ask me, if they do that.. However I was looking at the other republican candidates, and I was holding my nose.. That’s why I’m saying she might win.. Think is all the feminist hysteria certainly has something to do with Hilary. Concentrated effort or not, it doesn’t matter but it seems to me things are converging towards her winning. I hope I’m wrong. That would be a complete disaster for men… Like we’re not being fucked enough as is..

        14. She is repub right? Nvm doesn’t matter.
          If it means anything to you, New Democratic Party (socialist) just took over Alberta. Reading right now how the stock market immediately took a hit as investors are saying to themselves “Invest in oil sands run by far left socialists? Wot?”
          This is going to be interesting to observe… can socialists run an efficient system and maintain economic growth? If these guys fuck up I think Canada is screwed.

        15. She’s democrat, and she’ll fuck men like there is no tomorrow.. We think we have it bad right now.. just wait.. As to running the economy, it doesn’t matter repubs or dems… The Government is the government.. The republicans just fiddle with it less but they’re still a bunch of fuck ups.. Biggest bail outs and market manipulations were done under republican presidents.. Fuck them all!

        16. Well la de da…. too good for tv ? Just kidding. She is pure evil. These last two weeks , she has been getting deeper and deeper in to trouble with her foundation fiasco, but she hasn’t lost any support.

        17. It’s bigger than that.. Ever since Obama, it doesn’t matter anymore. It’s all about Social Justice.. Honestly, I don’t think we will have a white straight man for president. EVER.

        18. At this point I would take a gay black overweight woman, as long as she was honest and at least tried to do the right thing.

        19. The election year will be interesting nonetheless. We will know more about where the society stands when this is set and done. I am not holding my breath though.

        20. Generations of families have been able to live off welfare, while still being able to afford Jordans and rims

        21. Excuse my ignorance…
          Doesn’t matter what she is… she’s already made it obvious she doesn’t give a damn about men with her famous quote.
          To her all men are Bill Clinton getting sucked off by Lewinsky.
          Here’s hoping.

        22. So everybody should sell drugs to make ends meet? That might not even work if nobody has disposable income. The reason welfare recipients might receive more than they need, is because the burden is spread over many tax payers. If taxes are only coming from corporations, they will be taxed out of business. Then no more welfare.

        23. That wouldn’t work anyway. The feminists smeared Sarah Palin pretty good. Any female conservative is not a “real woman” to them

  20. Every man needs to know a little welding, just enough to DIY exhaust, plumbing, framework. I don’t like stick welders, too sloppy. Get a fair mig welder, CO2 wire welder and play with it. You can do exhausts like a pro. It’s like swinging a hammer, mixing concrete or reloading, all necessary for keeping a roof up and keeping your clan dry and soverign. Anything in excess will tax you in other ways, so spend your energies broadly doing many crafts and ventures.
    College educated folks who enter a very narrow field like I.T. for example and who succeed in the field, unless they become quite wealthy will likely end up mortgaging their life just to pay someone else to fix a leaky faucet, build their house for them or prepare their food. For middle income people, auto and home costs are the bulk of expenditures and can be reduced to bare minimum with basic experience in the trade.
    People making a living fixing a leaky faucet know there are pro’s and con’s in every service job. The pro’s are ‘knowing the business’ as well as knowing the tools and the jargon. The con’s are knowing how to milk $100 bucks for a drippy faucet to cover the cost of your service van and jumpsuit. Substantial money can be saved if you can DIY. Auto and home repair are the biggest pro/con cash cow trades that put slop on the table for the tradesman. Home may be bonded/licenced but auto only requires a certified patch on your arm. I’ll do it myself thank you. And my bitch cooks, I taught her to make it the way I LIKE IT 🙂

    1. As far as repairing your own car goes, yes you should know how to jump start, change oil, maybe replace brake pads, but I wouldn’t get to deep into it. You know how many times I’ve had a customer tow their car to my shop with a big box of parts, asking me to fix what they fucked up? Fine for me, the bill will probably be more than if they just brought it to me to begin with!

      1. Still they learned a little something and got ‘knuckle sense’ activated while trying their hand at ‘MUFFLER DIVING’. Always good to protect those piano fingers. You can always buy new snap on sets but no amt money buys new hands. Those are your most prized tools. In addition, a little knuckle bust makes them respect the mechanic all the more. Maybe they should tackle a lawnmower first. You know what they say ”once you know small, you know ’em all”. I worked on big engines for years before I messed with mowers. Then it took me half a day on this new riding mower and a lawnmower man came over and stuck his hand in the hood like worming a large barn animal. His arm was covered with fescue shit and spiders and POOF it ran!! Maybe I should have started small myself. I’ve always been preaching it since then.

        1. What you say is true. You lucked out. You’re mechanically inclined and can eventually figure most things out. I bet you took things apart to see how they worked when you were very young, right? When I was a kid, I thought everyone had this curiosity and talent. It’s surprising how many people have to sing to themselves “lefty loosey, righty tighty”.

        2. True. Right brain is musical, left is sequential & logical. Kids learn ABC song quickly but would take forever to memorize the alphabet in monotone without music. I’ve always said that lengthy math equations, engineering fomulae, torque tables, anything hard core technical could be instantly memorized by anyone if put to music like the ABC song. Left and right brain working in tandem are powerful.

  21. I’m tired of technology and bit twidling.
    I like welding shit together and blowing shit up. Is that blue-collar enough?

    1. If you can find a job where you get to blow shit up and then weld it back together, that sounds rather optimal.

      1. Lol. I’d say such a job has great job security. Them little bitty pieces are a bitch to weld, though.

  22. I worked summers at a paper mill to pay for college and I’d take the lowliest office work over going back to that world.
    I don’t miss: missing out on all sorts of events and screwing up your sleep patterns with rotating shifts, gerontocratic worksites where the old farts get the best hours and more money(thanks, unions), and people with zero social skills bellowing at each other. There’s just no prestige; even if you’re making 100K as a machinist no woman wants to tell her friends about how her husband works in a factory.
    On a final note, I really hate the sentiment that everyone should run off to the nearest Tech School because manufacturing is tentatively dipping a toe in the water again. Nice try, assholes. Anyone who grew up in the Rust Belt in the 70’s/80’s/90’s knows better than to trust you.

    1. you mistake working with your hands for the bullshit inherent in management and union bureaucracy.
      No one is suggesting you work in a factory.

    2. Do you really care about “prestige”? Who gives a shit how other people view your job? They’re not paying your bills.If you make 100K but your woman is ashamed of your job, I suggest you drop her and let her go find someone else in a more prestigious job.

  23. Hey trades are the future, if your a welder an electrician and what not illegal labor is hard to replace you becuase of codes building codes a Mexican can’t fake those credentials. Then let’s say a depression hits which is very likely im a welder he’s a marketing rep.

  24. Bad advise for men. We should demand to see more women on the construction sites not more men. After all, we’re equal now.
    Taking up on a blue collar job today is to become a slave.

      1. Why does it have to be a cubicle? There’s catering, manufacturing, farming. The options are endless.

        1. catering and farming.. you’re gonna need a lot of capital to get started. Manufacturing is all cubicle work

  25. When my nephews graduated from highschool, they both took an electrician’s apprenticeship. The oldest one, he is likely going to stick in the trade (he’s already got his ticket), but the youngest one (he is in his fourth year apprenticeship) has been a bit of a struggle – he’s not sure he wants to do it for the rest of his life.
    It’s been a little difficult, but the extended family has managed to kick him in the pants until he finishes and gets his ticket. The way I tell it to him, finish your ticket first, THEN go to university. You’ll still be young (21/22) and with your ticket, during summers and on weekends you could probably still earn $25-30,000/yr and finish a college degree virtually debt free. Not only that, but you’ll be the older guy on campus who isn’t eating bulk macaroni flavoured with all-spice for dinner, and the women will notice your attitude is much better because of it, and you’ll clean house with all these girls 3 or 4 years younger than you.
    Plus, when you realize, like everyone else with a BA, that your degree is useless, you won’t have to suffer through being turned down for a $10/hr burger flipping job, but instead will be able to fall back on being an electrician for $60-$70,000/yr.

    1. How about you tell the next tradie who comes to fix something in your house, how about you tell him that to his face you coward.

  26. Cool article. I would say “yes” blue collar jobs are a definite way to go career wise.

  27. Good article! I grew up on an airport. I swept hangar floors, cleaned planes and was an airport bum from the time I was 10. Those things got me access to flying. When I got out of high school I fell into a job as an electricians apprentice. I made enough money to rent planes three times a week and was able to pay for all my ratings up through commercial, instrument and multi. I spent my 18th birthday at work, wiring a high-rise. I loved the job. there was comradery among all the crews–this was before the sites had become havens for illegals that couldn’t speak the language. Electricians were in the higher tear among the trades.
    The trades are what you make of them–a lot like the military. You can show up, do what you’re told, maintain a paycheck and expect to be laid off when things get lean. On the other hand, you can kick ass, learn your trade and move up. The bottom line is that performance always gets rewarded and if you’re making the company money, it gets noticed. Sure the job can be dangerous, the work conditions can be extreme but the pay is good and you can learn on the job and there’s always continued education available to help you advance. It’s also nice to know how to do things everyone needs done and not many people know how to do.
    I worked in some amazing places as an electrician. I advanced quickly and became foreman on jobsites in charge of people twice my age. I learned to be respectful to people who’d been around longer but still be able to get them to perform. Those were some of the most loyal people I’ve ever worked for. At a very young age I got my contractors license and to this day it still makes me money. I do jobs for people on my days off and I charge a fair wage which is damn good money. Sure the job can wear your body out but if you’re smart enough, you can move up to where you aren’t the one doing the hard labor.
    Construction taught me many things. It taught me that I was part of a team and that no one was going to do (or could do) my job for me. It taught me the importance of a schedule, integrating with other teams, how to keep from getting killed, where to be and where not to be. For a while I did residential wiring. That taught me a lot of stuff too: how to be a babysitter (having apprentices under me did that too) a marriage counselor, conflict resolution and how to sell ideas.
    I worked with amazing people like war vets and all kinds of people who’d come from many different fields of work. I saw a lot of people get hurt real bad and I learned from every one of them. I also learned to give advice and when to do what I was told when the advice fell on deaf ears.
    One of my most memorable experiences was giving a couple old timers advice on how to do a project we were working on. They told me I just needed to do what I was told and that I didn’t amount to a pimple on their ass as far as experience. Well, I’d just come off two jobs doing nothing but what we were trying to do that day but I kept my mouth shut and (after arguing and realizing they weren’t going to budge) enthusiastically busted my ass to get it done the way they wanted me to do it. After it turned out looking like shit, the site foreman came up and told us all as much. Well, one of them said to the foreman that I had tried to tell them to do it differently. The foreman said “well, Aeronaut just came off two jobs doing the exact same thing, he knows what the hell he’s doing. You should listen to him”. Those old fuckers had the integrity to admit they were wrong and asked me to show them how to do it well. From that point forward, as far as they were concerned I knew my shit. There was no animosity–nothing but respect. They had a great deal of respect that I didn’t have an attitude while I was doing it their way. I was 20 years old and those guys were a couple Vietnam vets and stand-up guys. That is what I loved about construction back in those days, if you knew your shit, no one fucked with you. If you were an idiot or an asshole for no reason, you got fucked with–hard! Old school hazing was the norm and I heard guys say some of the most funny and disgusting stuff I’ve ever heard.
    Contracting was the best of two worlds: business and labor. I learned both. Think what you want of him but Donald Trump once said something very complementary of contractors in an interview. I’m paraphrasing but it went something like this, “contractors are a different breed. They didn’t go to Wharton or Yale but they’re every bit as smart as someone who did. They’re great at what they do and they’ll pick your pocket in the blink of an eye and you’ll never know what happened”.
    After I started flying corporate jets for a living my contracting experience made it easy when I became chief pilot and flight department manager. My bosses had no problem turning the management of their 30 million dollar operation over to me because of my experience in business and having a trade. The finny thing is, being a pilot is more dangerous than being an electrician.
    To this day my license still makes me a lot of money. It also puts me in a position to be able to trade labor with other trades when I need stuff done. I always give other tradesmen a break and they do the same for me.
    Get a trade. No matter what you do in life after, you’ll always be able to make extra cash or keep your self afloat between jobs.

  28. 20 years old
    In trade school or automotive tech.
    Worked a few warehouse jobs then recently worked at an auto salvage yard
    Being able to be around all those engines and some go fast parts , taking apart alternators and ac’s made it out like being a kid in a candy shop
    Plan to go to a gm program through my school , work for them for a few years to pay off loans the. Venture out on my own.
    No kids or wife in my plans either so I’ll try to have my hands in the stock market . Do jobs around town or own a shop, build racing engines and sell those for fun.

  29. I recently got my CDL A and started a dump truck company. Previously i was a commercial fisherman in Alaska and before that wasted many years of my life making too much money trading futures in front of a computer screen in NYC. I dig what the writer of the article is doing.

    1. I was friends with one of the welders at a former company (I am a machinist) and that is true. Jake the welder always bummed a smoke from me at lunch and half the time he tried to borrow some money for gas too, mind you he drove a scooter from the next town over. I don’t know if they didn’t pay welders as well or he had a massive dope habit or what.

  30. It’s been like this in civilization for ages, with of course slavery being the prime example. But today, it’s not much different.
    Why?
    I work as an engineer at a corporation. What I have always realized is the closer to the product you work, the less you are compensated (and yes, I understand there are union laborers that make great wages). But typically, the closer to the product you are, the less you are compensated. The further you are from the product, the more you are compensated (managers, executives, presidents, board members, etc.). But I have always believed that the people working closest to the product (laborers & engineers) are the MOST VALUABLE. For example, the manager of my department makes more $$$ than everyone in the department. He went on vacation for a week recently and the department functioned perfectly fine. Business as usual. So, ironically, the department can still function without the manager, but the manager has no job and cannot function without the engineers & laborers of the department. Again, in my mind, the manager is nothing more than a ‘task organizer’ and a ‘worker evaluator’. To me, he really is less valuable, but his compensation says otherwise.
    In a nutshell, you have the product on one end, and Wall Street on the opposite end. The closer you are to the product, the less you are valued. The closer you are to Wall Street, the more you are valued. A backwards society.
    It’s already been lost, but that’s one of the reason why America was founded…..it was for individual freedom…being your own boss, your own laborer, and reaping the benefits of your own labor. But like Thomas Jefferson said, “if you let Central Banks (Federal Reserve) coin our currency, then corporations will grow up around the central banks (wall street) and deprive the People
    of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the
    continent their Fathers conquered” <——THIS IS WHY LABORERS AREN’T VALUED LIKE THEY SHOULD BE AND THE FEMINIST OFFICE BABYLONIAN WHORES & CUNTS ARE COMPENSATED BETTER FOR DOING NOTHING. THEY WORK CLOSER TO WALL STREET….DOING NOTHING, WHILE THE LABORER WORKS CLOSEST TO THE PRODUCT. In reality the laborer should be compensated 3 times the amount of the office cunt, but unfortunately this isn’t the case today.

    1. Ghostrider, you’ve just said in a few lines what Karl Marx took a whole book to explain.
      I’ve been a worker who clawed his way up to management, so I know what I’m talking about. Here’s the rub: there’s a time for brute force, and a time for brains. The reason that senior executives get paid so much is that decisions they make (on almost a daily basis) can decide the future of not just the workers, but the whole company and its shareholders (who have so kindly invested in the company to keep it going). The guy closest to the product has to do just one thing: make a quality product. The managerial class, on the other hand, has to handle all the rest: production, marketing, distribution, shipping, and all the other gunk which provides revenue to pay everybody. (Please note that I’m specifically excluding non-essential functions such as HR, who are, as so rightly described, leeches.)
      Note too that the managerial class is the most volatile class in terms of job security. Trust me, when the business starts slowing, the managerial class is the first one to be cut by the accountants, precisely because firing one manager is financially the same as firing four of the guys working closest to the product.
      I’m all for young men getting a job in the trades when they leave high school. But it shouldn’t be seen as the end result of your work lifespan, but as a stepping-stone. Use your manual labor experience to build a career — by the way, most engineering companies (mining, construction, manufacturing) insist on field experience before they hire or promote a manager.
      The goal of any trade occupation should be to start your own business, not stick to the same job for 30+ years. That’s bullshit. Any 50-year-old guy still sawing lumber or welding pipes deserves all the crap that happens to him.
      And those idiots who work for six months and then screw around for the rest of the year need to be read the Riot Act. By all means they should take the time off — and go to school to learn stuff like accounting, marketing and management, which they will need when they start their own business.
      “Work” is not just getting your hands dirty, but improving yourself and the package you present to the world. Whether you do that by manual labor or studying is irrelevant.

      1. That the managerial class is somehow necessary due to the complexity of the modern world doesn’t mean they aren’t parasites.
        Its a parasite world.
        Just look at where money, that shit we’re all fighting over, comes from.

    2. You nailed it precisely.
      The fish rots from the head first.
      In a society where money is printed at interest by the chosen for the chosen (and their managerial whore class), this is what you get.

  31. Uncle Bill, the Brian Keith character on the old 60s show A Family Affair, was originally a welder who became a big time architect/engineer.
    One of the episodes involved his position coming under threat from some kind of office political situation. When Mr. French, the butler, asked ‘what will you do?’ Uncle Bill said, with Keith’s trademark deadpan moxie, ‘I’ll just go back to being a perfectly good welder’.
    I’ve never forgotten that-obviously.
    We must all work to re-valorize the trades–beginning with don’t be a fat, unshaven tattooed mope and wear a decent set of matching Dickies every day.

  32. I own my own business in the timber industry. Frigid cold, heat, steep ground,equipment breakdowns, widow makers, swarms of black flies, hornets, rate of pay dictated by production etc. are just a few of the things I contend with. The days are long and the return on investments are not real high. However, this life has made me a very tough (emotionally and physically) resilient guy – who doesn’t suffer fools lightly. It’s a great industry with lots of opportunities for guys who have grit and a desire to work hard. Like farming the average age of guys in my profession is 55-60. Very few under 40 want to work in it and even less want to start or own a business in it.

  33. I have a BA and didn’t owe any long term debt because it was so long ago the cost was reasonable, but I’ve always had blue collar jobs. Back then there were no personal computers and no jobs in the field. All the high paying jobs requiring a degree were full because people were pushed to go to college because of the Russians getting ahead of the US, nobody would hire you because they figured you’d be offered the presidency of GM in a few weeks, and I was finding out that academic persons were arrogant trash. It worked out fine for me.
    Get what education you need and get a real job that maintains and carries society forward — and you can learn anything in libraries and on line except skills requiring specific practice.
    With girls in charge society will deteriorate and you’ll be able to take care of things via the practical knowledge you’ve acquired.

  34. Remind me of a joke:
    A Doctor has called a plumber to fix a leaky water tap in his bathroom.
    The plumber arrive & repair the leaky water tap in 20 minutes. Then he present the bill of $300.00 to the Doctor.
    The Doctor get apoplectic at the amount being charged.
    ” I…I… As a Doctor I couldn’t charge this kind of sum my patients .
    The plumber answer.
    ” I know. When I was a Doctor I couldn’t either !
    LOL !
    Call a plumber & see what it’s going to cost you !

  35. Hi first post here, just found this site. Im a certified welder and journeyman millwright, 55 years old and have kept myself in shape. I have two sons, my oldest went to college and dropped out after 3 years to work in oil/gas fields here in WV. He rebuilds well heads and loves it, makes about 60 G a year, plenty to live on here in WV. my youngest is a geology major at WVU and will also work in the same field. There was a time when “a trade was money in the bank” and that time may be coming back. Its a mans world in these trades. I did the office thing for awhile, as did my oldest son, and couldn’t stand that whole kinda bitch scene.

  36. I can attest to that. I left a soft office job in the Marine Corps (bookeeper) to become a truck driver. The pay sucked at first and the schooling was hard and difficult. Frankly it was harder than the office bullshit job to get qualified.
    My first year I may have taken home 18k dollars. Of course back then I had a greedy loser for a wife. So I was still broke.
    Later on I got into doing dangerous driving jobs. That is where the money was. Strike replacement driver, I took home after taxes 2000 bucks a week plus per diem.
    Middle East and Africa, I alternated between living in 5 star hotels with maid service to tents in the desert. 7500 a month take home, mails and lodging paid for. not a bad gig.
    Finally though I had to leave the profession. Truck driving is hard on ones health. Weight gain is inevitable and lack of exercise the rule.
    I saw the writing on the wall with the automated driving trucks being developed. So I am now learning robotics and machining.

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