Indirect Vs. Direct Game: Which Is Really Better When You Approach A Beautiful Girl?

Last week I wrote an article entitled Why Day Game Is The Secret Sauce You Need to Consistently Meet and Attract Women. In it, I introduced the concept of day game, explained its benefits in comparison with night game, talked about reasonable expectations you should have going in and the kinds of skills you’ll need to get good. This week I go deeper into the topic by discussing “openers”—what you should actually say when talking to a woman you’ve never met for the first time—and tackle the age old question of whether it’s better to go direct or indirect.

What Is An Opener?

hot bae

Picture the scene. It’s 11:30 am and you’ve just snuck out of the office to walk around the block and clear your head after staring at spreadsheets for the last three hours. As you head for the coffee shop on the corner, in your peripheral vision you register a vision of beauty—long hair, slim waist, and tapered legs revealed by a short pencil skirt. You turn to look at the girl. Indeed, her face is as beautiful as you had intuited. You feel a strong biological pull, right down at the level of DNA. Ancient forces are drawing you towards her. But fear roots you to the spot. You could never simply just go and talk to a girl like that. After all, what would you say?

You pause for a second, observing her as she passes. And now the moment has gone, as it always does. Regretful and a little sad, you go to pick up your latte before returning to your desk. I suspect that all of us have encountered something like this at least once in our lives. For me, memories of girls who “got away” can linger for months, sometimes years afterwards. But what causes our reticence in these situations? In my view it is a combination of fear and lack of an opener—that is, something to say to a stranger without coming across as weird or creepy.

Fear

FEAR

First a quick note about fear. Due to ancient bio-evolutionary factors that are of very little relevance in the twenty-first century, the sight of an exceptionally attractive women appears to instill a “fight or flight”-style mentality in most men that prevents them from approaching her. While this is instinctual and beyond our control, it is also completely unnecessary and counterproductive. As Roosh notes in Day Bang, a 100,000-year old impulse designed to protect us from dangerous enemies and predators has little use on today’s dating scene. Think about it—if you go up and talk to that cute girl in the gym, what is the worst that can happen? Probably that you will have a few second’s innocuous chit-chat and then she’ll politely excuse herself and go back to what she was doing before.

It’s hardly armageddon, is it?

Still, approach anxiety can be challenging, and for some completely destabilizing, at least at first. Really the best way through is simply to “feel the fear and do it anyway”, but Roosh has some great visualization tips in Day Bang that have really helped me over the years.

The Opener

She wants you to talk to her.

She wants you to talk to her.

Now we come on to the meat of the topic—the opener. What exactly do you say to an attractive woman you’ve never met before but would like to get to know when she’s walking down the street, picking up her dry cleaning, or browsing the philosophy section of the local book store? In essence there are only two ways you can go, direct or indirect.

A direct approach means that you go up to the girl and make plain your romantic and sexual interest in her. An indirect approach is where you go up and talk about something else—usually something situational—as a means to initiating a conversation and hopefully getting her phone number in the process.

Direct and indirect each have their good and bad points. In the next sections I give you examples of both methods as well as discussing their advantages and disadvantages. Be aware, though, that there is significant debate among men about which approach is better. Only you will know what works best for you depending on your aptitudes and the particular situation in which you find yourself.

Direct 

sexy girl LA

A direct opener is when you walk right up to a girl you’ve never met before and make your intentions plain immediately. Examples of direct openers I’ve used are: “Hey, you’re beautiful. [Holds hand out to shake] I’m Troy”; or “I noticed you walking by—you’re really cute so I had to come over and say hi.”

Advantages: There’s something very masculine about being unashamed and open about your intentions and desires. A man who has the balls to walk right up to a woman sober and tell her he thinks she’s hot is rare, and therefore attractive. Just by making the approach you’ll go up a couple of points in her estimation, particularly if you give the impression that this is something you’ve done before with good results. It also has the benefit of separating the wheat from the chaff—you will very quickly filter out time-wasters and it’s very difficult to get put in the friend zone when you’ve made your interest explicit in this way

Disadvantages: Direct is a high-risk, high-reward strategy. If a girl is even a little favourable to your look or vibe and you approach her directly then it will blow her away, and you’re likely to get a phone number and a date out of it. But other girls may reject you right off the bat, whereas had you gone in a little more “under-the-radar” with indirect you would have had time to build up the attraction over a longer period.

Indirect

pet shop

Approach a girl in whom you are interested and talk about any other topic apart from the fact that you are attracted to her and you’re opening indirectly. In day game encounters, indirect openers tend to be situational. So you might for example ask a passing girl where the nearest pet shop is, or how to get to the train station as a way of initiating a conversation.

In Day Bang Roosh advocates what he calls “elderly openers.” One major difference between day and night game is that during the day you should be a lot lower energy and less cocky-funny. In fact, a better strategy is to err on the side of being a little dull in the early stages of an interaction so as not to “scare the cat.” An elderly opener is where you imagine what an elderly person might say to a stranger while striking up a conversation and using something similar on a girl. So for example if you meet at an airport you might ask her where she got her luggage from, how durable it is, whether she finds it suitable for long and short haul trips and so on.

Please note that such chat is not intended to get her panties wet and will not in itself land you a date with her. What it will do though is begin a conversation and give her the opportunity to demonstrate that she is open to talking. You can then transition on to other topics.

Advantages: Going indirect usually gives you more time time to demonstrate your personality (“deliver your value”) and thus to build attraction and rapport. Phone numbers obtained through solid indirect approaches can often be less flakey than from quick direct approaches. This is because if you’ve talked for longer on neutral topics the girl will be more likely to feel that she “knows” you when you ask her out for a date; whereas the “heroin shot” of a direct approach where you reveal your attraction can wear off quickly, leaving her with the accurate impression that in fact she has no idea who you are.

Disadvantages: Transitioning from a conversation about luggage to something more flirtatious can be tricky. Plus, if you’re not that experienced you might find yourself being put in the “friends” box more often than not.

Roosh has an obvious preference for indirect game and discussed his reasoning here:

Many say direct game is “better,” but unfortunately we’re not able to conduct scientific studies to prove either side. Even my conclusions are based only on experience and anecdotal evidence. The main problem I have with direct game is this: it shows your cards right away and forces the girl to make a decision before you build up any value besides your appearance and confidence. That’s not enough for the majority of Western girls. You’re not giving her the time and information she needs to weigh the pros and cons on sleeping with you. Instead, immediately after the opener, you force her to decide right then and there if she wants to get involved. She’ll bow out (“Sorry I have a boyfriend”), or just be nice to you for the flattering attention.

[…]

The more value you have, in terms of looks and status, the more direct you can go where you can approach girls saying they’re beautiful and bang that night without problems. But if you’re a random guy off the street who needs to study game to get the girls he wants, chance are you don’t have that initial value where you will be rewarded for your direct opener.

Wherever the indirect vs direct argument stands, the truth is that you’ll have to try both and measure your results. Some men, based on their appearance and vibe, will do far better with one than the other. If you’re new to day game, don’t take the experts word for it: try each one 50 times and measure your result.

Look out for next week’s day game article, where I’ll be talking about how to maintain a conversation once you’ve opened, and how to go in for the close.

Roosh has some great tips on how to develop your day game in his classic book Day Bang, home of the “elderly chat” strategy and the now infamous “pet shop” line. Day Bang, which I will be referencing throughout my day game series, is a 201-page book that solely focuses on approaching women during the day. Using dozens of examples, it teaches you how to meet girls in common daytime venues like the coffee shop, retail store, street, bookstore, and grocery store, among others. It’s available on paperback, Kindle, or ebook. Click here to learn more about Roosh’s book.

Read Next: How Clear Should You Announce Your Sexual Intentions With Women You’re Attracted To?

154 thoughts on “Indirect Vs. Direct Game: Which Is Really Better When You Approach A Beautiful Girl?”

  1. There is no better or worse when discussing direct vs indirect openers in the context of day game. It’s all situational and even the safe theory I’m about to mention is not a surefire 100% fit. But that theory is, of course, pick direct or indirect based on your target. If she is conservatively dressed, not showing much skin, run of the mill haircut, not a ton of makeup, indirect is going to be your better bet more often than not. If she displays a lot of slut tells, you might be better served by the old “Hey Baby, I wanna jump your bones.” (Actually, never say that.)
    Bottom line is that, like most opportunities in life, it all comes down to situational awareness…and that can only be developed through repetition.

    1. I’ve only ever done direct and I can honestly say it can be tweeked to the situation. You can turn it down or rack it up after calibrating the situation during the first minute or so. The biology at play is always the same, regardless of how the girl is dressed. If she is ovulating and she likes the look of you, you are in like Flynn. You’ve also pre-empted various shit tests by putting your balls on the line and showing intent.
      It just doesn’t feel right to me by trying to sneak in under the radar by using indirect.

        1. Well I’m handsome and rugged. No point loathing right men! We have gone there and done that so good job.

        2. Do you ever have women blow you off/laugh at you when you approach because you are short? If so, do you just keep on rolling?
          The reason I ask is I’m 5’6 and I had bad experience on a date. She seemed shocked that I was an inch or two shorter than her despite me telling her my height beforehand. Her being taller didn’t bother me and I did my best to roll with it but it was a futile attempt. Since then, there just hasn’t been any desire for me to talk to girls.

        3. Dude, she’s just one OF a million girls, not one in a million girls. Hell with her. Get up, dust yourself off and go talk to girls. When you talk to them on a cold approach, they already know your height so no mystery there. She shit test you about your height, ignore it as if nothing happened. You show any insecurity, you’ll be nexted.

        4. I walked out of it knowing she was no real loss. Like I said, I tried to roll with it and at least have a good time but she was too much of a bitch to even do that. Getting back in that groove has been the hard part.

        5. She sounds like an absolute bitch. She was the problem, not you. Don’t let it get to you. I take it that was a blind date then? I’ve never done that. I’ve always cold approached on the street during the daytime. I filter girls to yes, no and maybe girls. Have an abundance mentaility, there are literally millions of them out there. Don’t let the odd bitch ruin your life. They are the minority.
          Here, this is the best daygame beginner book on the market, get out there son!!:
          http://sigmawolf.com/product/beginners-daygame/

        6. Honey Badger, just accept that you’ll date girls who are 5’3″ or shorter. There’s literally millions of them, and a lot of them are smoking hot. Kim Kardashian, Lucy Liu, Rachel Bilson, Jennifer Love Hewitt. All under 5’3″.
          At 6’2″, BTW, I pretty much ignore most women under 5’5″. The height gap is just too awkward, especially when walking together, trying to hear her in public, holding hands, etc. So we have the same problem essentially.

        7. Honey Badger, just accept that you’ll date girls who are 5’3″ or shorter. There’s literally millions of them, and a lot of them are smoking hot. Kim Kardashian, Lucy Liu, Rachel Bilson, Jennifer Love Hewitt. All under 5’3″.

          His problem might be that most women want the 6 footers. Too bad a guy can’t change his height like a woman can change her weight (if she puts a little effort into it).

        8. What exactly did you say to her after she reacted to your shortness? And I’m guessing you both met online.

        9. Yeah man, you’re probably right. I’m from a very small town out in the country and I think growing up with such a limited pool of talent to draw from greatly influenced our collective game. Even now, living in a smallish city, I realize all the time shit like this has been a limitation and I never knew it. So cheers mang, and good luck to you as well.

        10. We met on Tinder, so yeah. I stole a line I saw on here awhile back and said, “I was planning on wearing heels but I couldn’t find a pair to go with my shirt.” It was met with a forced and uncomfortable laugh.

        11. We met over Tinder. For me, approaching girls on the street is difficult just because of my work schedule and commute so I just use thst to sharpen communication skills. Thanks for the advice and the link though. I’ll check that out.

        12. My dating horror story: A girl was getting out of my car after our unsuccessful third date. (Lemme just say this: This was fifteen years ago, while I was learning game, there ARE no unsuccessful third dates now.) Anyways, she reaches into her purse, throws a 3-pack of condoms at me, and says, “There you go, at least you can say I gave you *something*.” Then she slams my door.
          What stung was that she looked like a Playboy centerfold. About 5’10, blonde, statuesque, huge pillows. I’d met her a month earlier on an airplane and gamed her for three hours.
          Next morning, after the hangover wore off, I found myself feeling confident. I’d encountered the biggest bitch in the world and lived to tell the tale. Nowhere to go from there but up.

        13. I see now. Don’t blame work. You can always stop on the way home and talk to girls. If you want it , and I do mean want it badly enough you will find a way to make it happen. Don’t see y I ur self short. No pun intended. It is a figure of speech.

        14. I saw this one really tall guy with a really short girl once walking hand-in-hand at the mall.
          Turns out he wasn’t her father.

    2. ‘”Hey Baby, I wanna jump your bones.” (Actually, never say that.)’
      ======================
      Why not? You can say it with a smirk like you’re kidding, but you’re really not. It plants the seed in her mind.
      After you go direct, do indirect so she gets to “know” you. She already knows you, so to speak.

      1. Agreed. You’ve set the sexual frame from the outset and she knows your intentions. Although calibration is needed.

      1. Yeah I remember it from an SNL skit when I was a kid, where Eddie Murphy played Michael Jackson. That was the line Eddie/Michael claimed to use.

    3. Fuck it, go direct, make it funny.
      “You know sweety, you remind me of my little toe ’cause I’ve got the feeling that I’m going to be banging you on every piece of furniture in my house!”
      Heh.

      1. That may be an improvement on “you’re little, pink, and I’ll probably bang you on my cofeetable tonight.”

  2. I’m thinking I may have to change mine up . Recently started using tinder again , don’t really care to got out much , and for some reason I keep getting this women that are looking for husbands . I won’t lie , the quality of the women is better but they expect you to chat them up now for a chance at a date . It used to be a simple hey what’s up? Wanna grab a drink type deal but now they’re using it as an actual dating service . Not against dating but tinder is not the place for it , now instead of average girls that want to have a good time , I get boring ass girl, better looking girls , looking for a relationship.

    1. Get a drinking buddy. Recently ran a set of plates with specific roles. One is my girl, one drinking buddy, one keeps me occupied on weekends.
      Having roles for the harem is good. Them wanting to make a hubby out of you gets boring and stale.

      1. I will try , my only thing is I have male friends to drink with . I’m probably neaderthalic but I only really want a woman around for sex. Conversation with them , for the most part is bland , I’m generally bored the entire time .

        1. True that. But as the great Troy Francis says: ” You put 100 percent effort on everything!”

        2. I hear ya’ man. On the other hand, it makes it easy to walk away with no regrets when she can’t even try to be at least somewhat interesting.

    2. I used to laugh when I saw a girl write “not looking for hookups” on tinder. Of course you are darling….you are on fucking tinder.
      I don’t use it anymore and haven’t for a while, but here is my favorite protip. The next time a girl asks you how tall you are (and if my experience is indicative of the norm they will frequently ask them) respond honestly and politely and then ask them how much their weigh. It’s fucking spectacular to watch them get insane.

      1. Done that before , it’s not my height. I’m getting the girls to chat , from there I get the number , I describe some typical setting which makes the panties wet “bonfire , blankets in the bed of a pick up truck” type deal and I still get flakes or the “I’m looking for a relationship” deal . Maybe I shouldn’t be so clear as to my intentions.

        1. i figured. just like asking girls their weight.
          If a girl says “i’m looking for a relationship” you should respond with “ewwwwwwwwww” If she sticks around she is dtf for sure.

        2. Done that , except mine is “good luck with that on here haha ” . It’s odd to because I have the typical shirtless mirror picture and even my bio screams dtf

        3. I might make a spoof tinder and just write things like “swipe left if you don’t want to fuck me no questions asked” and see if I get any takers.

        4. Until this moment I wasn’t even aware that shirts were made for mirrors.

        1. Omg i am totally making an account just to ask girls how many men they banged

      2. That’s beautiful. Another one to compare is age vs weight. If they say you’re above their age limit, reply that they’re above your weight limit. Works even on skinny chicks (it installs afterburners on their hamster.)

        1. Oh I love calling skinny chicks fat. Funny though, despite me aiming much younger no girl has ever called me on age.

    3. On my profile until just today: “anyone hooking up on this hook up app? No, well okay then”

    4. The “looking for a relationship” is just all part of their slut defense. You need to use direct game, initiate physical contact early, and hit it and quit it. Those girls say they’re looking for a relationship to make it seem that they’re not sluts, but I’ve had many hook ups with girls that are “looking for a relationship”. Seriously, they’re on Tinder looking for a relationship? Everyone knows what Tinder is for.

      1. I use direct game , it’s the flaking that’s getting me or the girls that hold tight to the “relationship ” stick . I’ll try being less direct, withing 3 texts I’m going for number or meet up .

  3. I run the idiotic drunken kung fu master game. One where you go in unassuming and make them giggle till they’re wet.

  4. One thing I will point out about the one that got away: She is (they are) always the perfect relationship. You never argue with them. You never are forced to hate yourself for banging her because she is hot when you know she is an insipid retard. She costs you no money at all. I wish about 60% of the girls I have been with in my life were ones that got away….I would have been better off

    1. In my foolish youth I married one of the hot babes that didn’t get away. I would trade a lot of what I have now to have repelled her back then.

    2. That is actually an on point observation. The ones that got away make for the perfect relationship…. with YOURSELF. HAH, love it.

  5. It’s just a convo to me in either case.
    Years ago, I used to be a Mercedes Benz salesman. my manager at the time told me “when people come to a Mercedes dealership they come here to buy. they either have the money or good enough credit, so how do you become a high volume salesman when it seems like a free for all? you have to be the most approachable person they have ever seen. if you make a person comfortable enough to approach you to spend thousands of dollars, you are already ahead of everybody else.”
    the point I’m making here is, if women see you as an approachable person, chicks get the relax factor around you. so a regular conversation of any type with chicks is always one long, flirty process of them opening themselves to you in ways that they usually don’t. and them enjoying it.
    for obvious slut buckets, honestly they are so aggressive with their attraction to me, I dont have to even saybl much at alI. i have literally bagged one nighters just by wiggling my finger for her to come to me.

        1. Yeah, I’ve compared the sensation to surfing. On those occasions, we’re both riding a powerful wave, an ancient one, and the outcome feels almost foretold.

        2. You get it…a wise philosopher once said “she tryna get in the loop, I’ll make her pay to ride the wave” basically — bitch you want in, invest yourself.
          in this case you are both the wave and the surfer, its easy when you get the hang of it

    1. Can you give your 2 cents on being a Mercedes (or any car) salesman? I’ve never been in car sales, but if I was to get into it, I’d like to sell Audi or Mercedes. I saw a job posting the other day for the nearby Mercedes dealership looking for sales reps.

      1. tbh it depends on what you are selling, high end (merc, Audi, porsche, bent) you have to be very well put together, look better than who you sell to. when you’re on, you rake money, when you’re off you hurt. stack up…its a feast or famine biz.
        I did it for over 3 years, and it’s for hard body ppl. but if you have specific. questions I can help. suit and tie always, and be slick. you’ll mainly be dealing with white collars(doctors, lawyers, CEO, etc.) on high end.
        I will say unless you are dealing high end vehicles, you will only get $100 for each new car on bs like Chevy, Ford, Dodge…so used is where your money is at. but if you are dealing high end new (Bentley, s550, s63, s65, Bentley, R8, type sales) you will get $1000 per sale

        1. Even if I went into used car sales, I should wear a suit and tie? I look good in a casual button up and slacks. But damn I’d hate to wear a suit and tie everyday.
          How can I find out which is the right dealership to work for? How much commission can I make? Is it always straight commission, or is there ever any salary? Realistically, how much can a guy make his first year?

        2. Realistically, you can make between 20k – 100k+ after taxes honestly.
          How you dress depends on what you sell. When I first started, I sold Hyundai and Mazda. New cars only got me $100 for each sale.
          Then I got promoted to Porsche/Audi/Bentley and I’m black as 3 am. Those were $1000 for each new one, crazy profit on used whips.
          I left for a Benz dealership, and I started making way more. But it’s all on you man.
          When I sold mid level vehicles I wore polo shirt and khakis everyday, but once I moved up I had to be suited and booted everyday.

        1. Blimey that makes me feel old. I saw them in 1986 in Wolverhampton in England. Fur Dixon (the girl with the mohawk) was the bassist at the time. Cheers.

  6. I made this point on another thread last week, but if you catch her eyeing you or even if her eyes dart away, it makes it a million times easier to go up and talk to her. Or in some cases, she may be feeling bold and come to you.

      1. Had more than several missed chances in years past growing up, but it’s gotten better. You are right; body language is paramount.

        1. I find it easier now that I know it. But yeah if they thought you this in school, we’d all be fvcking and not get shit done.

  7. Direct, indirect, this method, that method…all of it pointless if you don’t sack up, stop getting stars in your eyes and letting fear consume you, and just talk to the damned chick.
    You know the “Game” that most women respect? Confidence. You see her, you are interested and see that she’s interested, you approach and you talk like you would with any other human being, without making it some desperate breathless plea. Using command words instead of questioning or soft words; chuckling at your own jokes/insights as if you just delivered unto the world a gift of unimaginable wealth. You are the Owner of the Bar/Club/Event come out to talk to your patrons, as a gracious leader does come out and mingle with “the little people” from time to time. Think of it as a benevolence that you’re giving her, own the confidence that goes along with this kind of attitude.
    But of all things, get out and approach!

        1. I would join with such a band, but only as lead singer.

        2. This band will have 50 members. All of which will be the lead singer and lead guitar player. There is no backup in the Electro Lites. They turn it up to 11.

        3. “Hello Columbus! I am Kray Tom and these are The Electro Lites!”
          The crowd bursts into orgiastic applause. Cue guitar riff.

        4. all guitar riffs from the electro lites, btw, will be played while standing on an elevated surface and there will be pyrotechnics being shot out from behind

        5. If it’s an outdoor venue then fighter jet flyovers are mandatory at key moments in the songs.

        6. all moments are key for the electro lites. I propose non stop fly overs by bombers breaking the sound barrier. The sonic booms from the constant breaking of the sound barrier will take the place of a rhythm section seeing as how everyone in the band plays lead guitar.

    1. Yes, it is that simple but people don’t want simple, so they buy books, read endless blog articles and the more they read the more they lose their natural confidence.

      1. It’s easy to sperg, no doubt.
        Some guys really do come to sites like this for help though, so there is value to be had, as long as a man doesn’t get too analytical and obsessive about the discussion as opposed to real life.
        Single mothers have really fucked over younger mens ability to even comprehend how to talk to women. A lot of them need a life line.

        1. Single moms do no fathering whatsoever. What they do is they continue henpecking far far past the kid’s potty training age when young men need to begin learning virtue and the divine ways of the patriarch. Divine, that is, in the man’s ‘divine’ rulership over his wom(e)n. But all that the kids of divorce get is continual henpecking and an overflowing can of soiled maxi pads choking the air in the residence. Benadryl for the toddler’s naptime as the whore mudsharks or rides junkie cowboys, whatever the case may be.
          I always told my kids whenever they played with the kids of a single mom that she needs to report back to her master, the kid’s father. If she has issue with it she come to me for a sermon on the mount. It’s difficult though when her kids are all sired by different motherfuckers. I would talk like a wise old wolf when those kids were over but their eyes got big and I know they heard chords of truth.

        2. There were reasons why our forebears advised us not to play with certain kids. The old knowledge, based on experience and proper socializing, is long gone. The last Pope warned the world against “relativism” and people blasted him for it. Wether you’re Catholic or not, he was right: Relativism results in a watering down of common sense and the destruction of values that have kept humans going for thousands of years. Looking at the history of Rome, it was exactly Relativism that brought a great empire down. It was “anything goes” mentality that brought on the Dark Ages of Europe.

        3. Relativism is one factor, but I ponder what would have saved or preserved Rome. Similar to Babylon which became engulfed in whoring, my think tank says CLITERECTOMIES would have saved Rome from its backslide and the dark ages would have been averted.
          Also Rome should have scrapped the roman numeral system which was a dead ‘toe tag’ system only good for sequential numbering and counting. All you can do with roman numerals is assign an I.D. number to every Roman citizen or count the days on the calendar, but you can not perform calculus or even multiply with roman numerals.
          The Empire became beyond massive in spite of the fact that they hadn’t even discovered electricity or the telephone, yet they had their sprawling continental influence without the printing press, without telecom and without rails. It was built upon sheer race and reason. The Roman race with a drop of technology added and the future would have been endless. The dumbing down of their math and science had to have been covert and intentional. They relied on the plumb bob and water level to erect great columns but they could not engineer a piston driven crankshaft with the roman numeral ‘slave’ number system. Locomotive transportation and control of their she beasts would have carried Rome another 1000 years.
          The ‘V’ and ‘I’ number system is not base ‘5’ or ‘1’ or ‘6’ or base anything. It’s so obtuse that it’s clear the Romans had the system imposed on them by mystery religion elites TO KEEP THEM DOWN. We see with the advent of technology loosed upon us today, we now see a hellacious program to feminize our females. We get one step ahead and our women want more creature comforts. We look to space and then our tech is turned inward to spy on men as the women vie for more security and men’s efforts are turned to creating a secure ‘cat box’ sterile culture to quell women’s imaginary fears and their compounding neuroses. ‘Feminine engineering’ is not smart growth. It is the return of a circle, a deconstructive arc negating the drive and works of men. It is the same madness that shut down Babylon.

    2. “You see her, you are interested and see that she’s interested, you approach and you talk like you would with any other human being.”
      That’s really all that needed to be said. If you sense there’s mutual interest and don’t take any further action, it’s your own damn fault.

      1. Eh, I dunno, maybe, maybe not. The approaches I see lots of guys do in real life, when the girl clearly was shooting him goo goo eyes across the room, are cringe inducing most of the time. No confidence, semi-stuttering, looking for one stupid “compliment” after another to the point where I want to intervene (but don’t) and usually they talk themselves right out of a sure thing.

        1. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve talked myself out of sex in exactly this way, for precisely those reasons.
          It wasn’t until I got to my mid 20s or so that I realised that it is ok to treat women like sexual beings that want to be raw dogged. Once I got that, everything else fell in place.

        2. I always go indirect. In my region, women knee-jerk go defensive with direct approaches, unless they’ve already sized you up as a potential market-piece. I guess I don’t have the confidence for it.

        3. to have a strong “goo goo” from a random girl’s eyes, the guy must belong to the 2% of top males (Hypergamy).. but yeah, it’s not enough and I can remember two guys I know who are handsome but with a huge lack of confidence.

    3. So you’ve internalized your own game so much that you don’t even think about its components. But that doesn’t mean those components don’t exist, and can’t be described.
      Just “talking to the damn chick” probably means you’re running indirect game with healthy DHV and cocky-funny attitude. That communication style is very different from the style of a man who, for example, directly states his sexual intention with zero comedy or charm. (See Javier Bardem’s first scene in Vicky Christina Barcelona.)
      tl;dr You’re probably a natural. Most younger guys do it the other way, reverse engineering their game. Especially Roosh; he’s exhibit A of a poosy technician.

      1. Understood, yes. I don’t mind the compartmentalizing of steps, but it all seems pointless when the one giant step most men fear to take is stepping up and starting that “transaction”.

    4. But how does one build confidence? I lost a chance at a decent girl because she said I wasn’t confident enough. She said she wanted a leader. Someone more forward. How??

      1. Leadership is not easy, sometimes a leaders decisions are not welcomed by the group, but are in the groups best interest. What matters as a leader is the one makes decisions and sticks by them, reversing if necessary, once.good leaders are not wishy-washy. Confidence comes from an internal understanding of one’s self. It is a combination of trial and error and success. Without much failure, there will never be success. Confidence is a result of that success. But, never take confidence itself for granted, it is a two-edged sword and can easily be lost. To prevent this it is important to maintain frame. You as a person and your frame are one, but not the other way around. Confidence is the third party and the union between the self and ones frame. One must be ones self, confident and then maintain frame. Btw, confidence is being who you are and not giving a fuck what other people think, yet going back to what I said before, if you are selfish it will bite you in the ass eventually. (This ties into being a leader.)

      2. Confidence is being your best and continuing to improve and not seeking anyone else’s approval. You dress a certain way because you know you look good in them and you like it.
        Girls don’t typically tell you that you have no confidence. You must have asked her or something and she was kind enough to tell you. Why was she kind, you may ask? This is what a guy typically tells another guy to help him out. Point out his flaws so he can improve on it.

        1. She didn’t outright say it like that. She alluded to the confidence thing, but on the phone call where she said she wasn’t interested, she also added that she is timid, she needs a leader and she felt like she would eventually end up wearing the pants in the relationship. That shit burnt. I know I’m not the most confident person but I’m trying to work on it. The dating thing is all new to me so I made a shit ton of stupid mistakes. I sold my self real short. That’s what upset me the most. Ah well.

        1. I know you are not trying to seriously answer his question, but, in my opinion, this is indeed part of the solution.

      3. Confidence is earned through your own self improvement techniques, along with getting a thick skin that just does not give a fuck if she rejects you. Once you don’t care, like really don’t care because there are ten prettier girls lined up behind her, your tone and body language change and convey that.

    5. Indirect or direct is situational in my opinion, and usually it depends on how much time you have and whether you can quickly think of a good opener that doesn’t appear “weird”. Nobody likes weird.
      So if I can’t think of anything else “boom” straight in and “bitch I wanna fuck so give up the nappy dugout”, or something more polite, its your choice.
      One thing I have found works wonders if you are “touring” in a foreign land is to ask a girl to take a “selfie” of you. Chicks love taking photos and they dig guys with cameras. And then you’re in. I tried this on a 10 that I thought was way out of my league and got the draws…
      Indirect works great on a girl who cannot walk away (working in a shop etc.) but you’ve got to use direct on a girl who is busy (on her way to work). I have tried indirect and unless you are perhaps sitting next to her on the train, its a disaster.
      So just use whatever works. Don’t worry about it because in the immortal words of Ronnie Coleman “ain’t nuttin to it but to do it!”

    6. Confidence is key, and it only comes from talking to a lot of girls (many 100s). Once guys realize that most girls aren’t interested, whatever approach they choose, they can continue meeting more until they find what they want.

    7. Hey Jefferson, maybe four months ago we talked about Allkman’s website, with the enormous picture collection. With the same URL, change Allkman to Bestofbeautifulwomen, and you’ll see a collection of the best from Allkman.
      56 pages instead of 1,656. And it’s without tattoos, silicon lips, dyed hair or body piercings, except for one pierced navel.
      So … Merry Belated Christmas!

  8. I want to contribute with my grain of salt on a side topic. I honestly don’t mean to brag; I’d just like to contribute.
    I’m an older guy in his early 40’s. When I was in my prime I was always lucky with women, since young. I never had good game but once in a while I’d approach 9’s and 10’s because my confidence was up.What I learned from that through experience and questioning these women, some of them in a LTR with me, is that they get approached *less* than your average bar slut. Trust me… I even worked part time for a group of former beauty queens that worked on charity. I developed a good relationship with them and some even told me they rarely get approached and they longed for it. So my advice if you do have good game is to approach prime pussy, preferably in day time. I know it sounds bizarre, but just trust me.. they’re easier targets. Some of the women I’m talking about were very secure in themselves (or as much as they could be as women) and they even had massive feedback because they were known actresses or TV hosts.
    One other thing that helped me a lot was focusing in meeting the right people (mostly guys) that would grant access to the best circles, rather than spend too much time chasing tail. In the end it pays off much, much more. I realize it’s not easy, but just talk to a lot of people of both sexes in social situations and ask them what’s their work and so on. Talk to ugly girls and guys in bars, BBQ’s and birthdays. It worked for me more than once. When you’re inside, you will be able to spend your time in bar/club/restaurant openings, avant premieres and such events, which is where prime pussy hang around, and they’re surrounded mostly by gay men, so they’re easy targets.
    Best of luck.

    1. “So my advice if you do have good game is to approach prime pussy, preferably in day time. I know it sounds bizarre, but just trust me.. they’re easier targets.”
      Absolutely correct. When I started practicing daygame, I instant dated less attractive girls believing they would be “easier”. They showed attraction towards me initially, but disappeared off the face of the universe when I wanted things to get physical. Most unattractive women are AWARE that they’re unattractive. This results in low-self esteem. In their worldview, it doesn’t make sense that a decent looking dude wants to sleep with them, so they self-sabotage the situation.
      When I realized this, I started approaching attractive women and got the quickest/easiest lay of my life by telling an HB7 I met at the library that I wanted to fuck the shit out of her. That experience opened my eyes. Attractive women generally don’t have the same emotional baggage that ugly women do. They’ll let you get physical with them within 72 hours or less.
      As you said, hotter women don’t get approached a lot…even less by a guy that’s aggressive and bold enough to take her home THAT day. Direct daygame with intention of going for the same day lay is the IDEAL way for an average joe to sleep with 8s, 9s, and 10s IMO. Guys who have the balls to do this are a RARE commodity. The more rare of a commodity you are, the easier it’ll be to get laid. In most cases, the hot girl will be more nervous than you are because she doesn’t want to fuck up her chances of getting laid.

  9. For me, the best opener ever was always “hi”. That’s it. You’re walking somewhere, say down the street or in the mall, and in your direction comes a girl making eye contact with you. Just say hi. Then she’ll say hi. Then hopefully you can figure out how to carry a conversation while flirting a bit.

    1. ”Hi” would probably be the #1 answer for pua openers if it were on Steve Harvey’s Family Feud show. ”Survey says ”Hi” ding ding.
      I’ve used ”hi” a few times being older. When I was 20, I’d over think the situation and the shit always had to be somewhat funny. The ‘first giggle’ was always my initial cast of the fishing pole. A few times in a club I did this one: ”Hey, I swear I know you from somewhere”. I’d go for deep IOI saying, ”god, I can’t place your face, but help me out, . . somewhere . . but I can’t quite remember . . ”
      Then I’d lay the punch line on her:
      ”holy shit, I remember now, YOU were the girl in my first wet dream . . oh my god I’m so embarrased. . . shit don’t tell me you actually remember me. . (giggles or hysterical laughture, depending on her drunkenness) . . ”so you actually remember me, the spiderman outfit and all? Hey I’ve given that shit up, I’m cool now. Shit I was like 12 then. Whaa it wasn’t you? (lead on to dance) . .
      I think the ‘wet dream’ routine got me a dance or two and I’d always gulp down her drink when she wasn’t looking. I was broke at 20 but fanatically pursuing the study of poosey speak language. I hope roosh isn’t right about the club culture dying. I’m torn. Shit had to get righteous someday.

    2. Best spots in St. Louis for day game: Forest Park ( throw an errant frisbee their way), Galeria Mall (hang at the sunglasses hut, wait for cute chic to try on stupid glasses), any Bread Co. Thoughts?

      1. I’ve been out and about in St.Louis, I go to Bread Co. often, and also to the Galleria a lot….but the girls here are just not attractive at all. I rarely see any girls pretty enough for me to actually want to talk to them.
        Maybe I got spoiled from living in southern California. But the girls here in St.Louis are such a huge downgrade in quality.

        1. Girls in LA are so plastic and fake. They lie out of their teeth and have short attention span. All they care is what brand of car you drive.

  10. Readers need examples, examples, examples – and not catering to the desire for ‘pickup lines’ and ‘canned material’, but just ideas and inspiration for situational openers and casual talking points.
    (I’m sure there are some great resources out there however).

    1. It’s an opener that leads to a conversation. You ask where the nearest pet shop is…she’ll ask what are you looking…you tell her a puppy…she says she loves dogs…and so on and so on.
      The pet shop is just a general example. If you’re not into pets, ask where is the best Chinese restaurant nearby. Or where is the nearest place to get good doughnuts. Anything that starts a conversation.
      Perhaps this is why you’re just an Average Guy

      1. I just thought it was a reference to Roosh’s instructions for the meetup
        plans described back in February, but yeah Roosh made it clear that it’s an opener and so did you, thanks
        maybe now i can strive for “above average”

  11. Some guys can do cold calls and be successful while others cannot. It is all in personal makeup. You have to be good at impromptu speaking and have the confidence to trust your gut. Providing examples would do little for overall success rates amongst men in daygame situations.

  12. The older I get, the more direct I get, subsequently, the higher quality and quantity of girls I get for the same amount of work. She’ll know if you can’t back up that directness within about 10 sec. I’ve learned when I’m having an off day before I even approach now. When I’m on, I’m on good, and that’s more days than off. Refinement.

  13. I miss social cues women are giving me sometimes. In my experience american females only know indirect game. They will try to ask me some pointless question, and I usually take them at face value, answer their question and walk away. Male friends have told me that I rejected her, and I’m like wtf. If that is her idea of flirting, she must be dull. I was even hit on by a hooker at a bar in nevada and I didn’t know it until after the fact. How can a hooker not know how to proposition a man? I do better with foreign women, they just tell you they like you maybe because they are working through a foreign language and they are trying to be understood.

    1. Sounds like maybe time to recalibrate the ol’ radar? I am a little afraid to notice that you did not say vegas…in what city in nevada did a hooker proposition you?

      1. Hard Rock Cafe at Tahoe. American women seem socially defective to me. They act like all they have to do is show up, and the man has to do all the work. I can’t articulate it.

  14. There’s two ways to do confidence. Fake it, or don’t give a shit. You don’t give a shit by earning it through accomplishment.

    1. Or, you get rejected enough that it doesn’t matter anymore. That’s how I stopped giving a shit. it works.

  15. Indirect game has been my choice the vast majority of the time, particularly during the day, since it’s admittedly much less stressful, and there’s less of a chance of being slapped in the face or blown off immediately. Sometimes, though, it can be hard to keep the conversation going when using elderly openers or talking about more simple/uninteresting things, and it often just kind of dies after a few exchanges. There are pluses and minuses to both methods.

  16. “I noticed you walking by—you’re really cute so I had to come over and say hi.” – the american beta game
    add “what’s that supposed to mean?” and you went full retard

  17. “do you have any hereditary diseases that run in your family? any lunatics or arsonists? retards? no ? ok how many children you can give birth to? i need at least six to fix the population equilibrium between christians and islamists. ok. call your parents and say you are getting married.” done.

    1. Can you (cook, sew, juggle three tennis balls). If not she’d need help with her duties on the farm. Any two legged monkey can clean or carry jugs of water, but it’s the aptitude related qualities, the ‘solid bricks’ out there upon whom you wish to shoot your cement on to build a solid house.

      1. I just think that the race and nation that will prevail in the next period of time will have more offspring. While we waste time learning tricks to seduce women who value themselves like they are queens of the world, there are hardworking dedicated women that are doing their womanly duties and perform well. Most of the chicks today do not want kids and guess what are muslim demographics? Off the fuckin chart. Houston we have problem.

        1. What’s going on with the refugee nations? Strong nations recruit the best and the brightest. Prison colonies and plantation slave states bring in cattle cars of the leftovers. This is protracted and worldwide.

        2. i think that basic worker and high scientist should work with same zeal. I have mentioned this a few times on this site==we are part of the machine. every cog has to work perfectly. Like in Japanese corporations. Without vanity, without jealousy , but with purpose. Refugees have deserted the fight for their country, why would anyone give them respect? They are travelling thru my country and I can say 80% are ready to fight but won’t. Shame.

      2. you understand we need stupid people to carry weapons and kill enemies? lets create some no matter if they are needed or not. the purpose is what matters. in my squad more than 10 could only do basic math but they could shoot whatever you want whenever you want it. so equality for retards – yes if they agree to guard country and serve. otherwise- no.

  18. I have success at direct openers, I almost never get blown off, and usually walk away with a phone number. I also find that direct openers are LESS anxiety inducing because you’re certain about what you’re going to say, rather than having to waste precious time and emotional energy thinking about a situational opener, which in turn starts you moving and therefore keeps fear to a minimum.
    But the point about the “heroin shot” was spot on. As loathe as I find it, I’m going to have to add some indirect game into my openers this season to see how they all compare and contrast. I’m still not entirely sure if it’s just the “heroin shot” or the fact that we’re in the smartphone era that causes so much flakiness.

  19. “You feel a strong biological pull, right down at the level of DNA. Ancient forces are drawing you towards her.”
    This is too real haha. I’ve found that keeping it simple and confident works well for me personally.
    “Excuse me, I just noticed you and I wanted to meet you. I’m ____” extend hand, she introduces herself.
    Immediately hit her with a question relevant to the situation, like at the gym for instance: “Are you training for some sort of competition or do you just like staying in shape?”
    I’ve had success with this. I’ve been in sales for 3 years so I apply a lot of those techniques to women. Just my 2 cents.

  20. I must say, I’ve been a victim of this situation many times: you notice a girl, you make eye contact and fail to walk up and spark a conversation. it actually happen to me a couple days ago and now I am kicking myself in the ass for missing a great opportunity.
    Just gotta stop over analyzing and thinking too much. that is what causes me to tense up and retreat. Just gotta sack up and go for the kill. Like Troy said, what is the worst thing that can happen? she says no. if so, you just move on to the next.

    1. Experience. Experience. Experience.
      The more you do it, the better you’ll get. Even when I’m not daygaming, I visualize myself making dozens of approaches from a first person point of view. Do this every day. HELPS a lot.

  21. My opener is some version of “Hey, sweetheart/darling/whatever, how are you doing, how is your day going/whatever/”, with good eye contact.
    Why? Because when you’re talking to a 9, every guy who has ever spoken to her from the time she was 14 has been trying to fuck her. You’re not different. So engage directly, and move from there. Have more skllz than the “but…muh dick” guy. You will succeed more often than you think.

  22. Direct game on hotties because it’s hard enough to get into their space to make a move so you may as well go all out. You need a go hard or go home mentality with very good looking women.

  23. I live in the country with the worst girls in the world (North-Eastern France), just thinking to have sex with them is impossible. They’re too mean, too agressive, refuse to talk, cheat always…And obviously they hate guys like me (white, blonde, with a bit of morals and who don’t talk like a rapper; they wants arabs and blacks only).
    Picking a girl here is the hardest thing to do in town, that’s why the ensemble of guys that I know (with work, good life, etc) are alone and got no sexual life.
    Being alone and disconnected to women is more easy, and it changes nothing. Anyway, all the girls are shit here.

  24. Women really don’t want men that are trying to game them, they just don’t want a sexist arsehole.
    You probably wouldn’t need this guide if you treated women with a bit of respect (Let me know if you need me to explain what that means).

    1. Your trolling of a days old article in a hit and run way is pathetic. If you want to discuss things or make statements, go to recent articles and strike up a conversation. This passive aggressive archive dig shit is cowardly.
      And yes, women adore men who game them even if they think they don’t like them. The reject button is used on men who are not good enough at it yet to use it naturally in a “stealth” manner.

      1. Hmmmm…..no, I’d have to disagree with you. I usually swipe left on guys who aren’t that interesting, have sent a rude comment or I have nothing in common with. I think you’re overthinking it tbh, although I generally find if a man’s a bit of an arse in real life that tends to come across on tinder as well. Contrary to popular belief on here, women aren’t daft and can tell when a man’s trying to ‘game’ them.

      2. And surely the fact that the comment section is still opened on this article means I can comment? My comment was fair and well reasoned, not an attempt at trolling.

  25. for me it’s not really fear, because I’ve done cold approach so many times, sometimes get numbers..
    I would say it’s the beleive that it’s just rarely working.. which is not a surprise cause even the very good guys have a very low ratio in term of numbers (I’ve read once something like 11%). Beside, girls associate guys who talk with them in the street to low quality men : which is kinda logic, if a guy have a social circle with beautiful ladies in it, he will not have any need to approach random women.
    adding to this, the age. street and direct game is for young (white) men (below 30), if you are over 30 you’re supposed to have a real social life.

  26. As someone who looks 10/10 I still need game when it comes to deprogramming her mind. Yes ladder + indirect: you pretend to have just stepped on the evidence of mudslime/kike shenanigans and to be as surprised as her, so she thinks she’s redpilling herself rather than being redpilled. One time I was in a pub with a girl and local arabs started getting close and doing their muslim chants, while giving her angry looks, she was scared as fuck and the subsequent fight finally got her survival instinct to trigger. That is how you get to fuck a girl dressed up in a SS uniform.

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