In the year 987, Vladimir the Great (later St. Vladimir of Kiev), a then pagan ruler of the Kievan Rus’, sent emissaries to various neighboring nations to study their religions. He was especially interested in the Greeks. The Greeks had preached to him about the history of the world from its beginning. They told him of another world, and if he accepted their religion, that he could die and then live forever. But if he accepted the other religions, that he would die and burn in fire.
Of the Bulgars on the Volga, his emissaries described how they worshiped in their temple, called a mosque, in an undisciplined fashion. They described how the Bulgarians stood ungirt, bowed, sat down, and looked all around like men possessed. They went on to report that there was no happiness found among them, but instead only sorrow and a foul stench.
Vladimir rejected Judaism as the Jews had lost Jerusalem. He concluded that their God had forsaken them.
His emissaries then went among the pre-Schism Latin Rite churches of the Germans. They reported to Vladimir that they beheld no glory there, and that their churches were cold and gray, and their services were boring.
They went on to the Greek Byzantine church in Constantinople. There they were taken to Divine Liturgy in the great Hagia Sophia. Then they delivered their report to Vladimir.
The Greeks led us to the edifices where they worship their God, and we knew not whether we were in heaven or on earth. For on earth there is no such splendor or such beauty, and we are at a loss of how to describe it. We know only that God dwells there among men, and their service is fairer than the ceremonies of other nations. For we cannot forget that beauty.
Thus began the Christianization of Vladimir the Great and the Eastern Slavs.
My Journey Begins
Sixty years ago, I was born into Evangelical Protestantism. I grew up in Independent Baptist and Southern Baptist churches. At a young age, I said the sinner’s prayer and accepted Jesus Christ as my personal lord and savior. Later in my teens, I received believer’s baptism and was baptized by immersion. Despite the expository sermons, and the puritanical hymns, I wanted something deeper.
As I grew up, I began to question my faith, tradition, and its teachings. Why did just a simple prayer grant me a get-out-of-hell-free card? Why did the church suddenly disappear after the deaths of the apostles, but then resurfaced in Northern Europe in the sixteenth century? Why was Sola scriptura the battle cry, yet I saw idolatrous book worship, and everyone and anyone interpreting scriptures as they saw fit? Why were there tens of thousands of Johnny-come-lately denominations, all claiming a corner on the truth? The questions went on and on.
The Frozen Chosen
After leaving the Baptists, my journey took me into the Reformed Church tradition. I learned all about the Five Points of Calvinism, or the TULIP, but I still believed in free will. I could choose to accept God’s grace, or reject it. I started to doubt how God could “elect” me, or choose me, while damning others to an eternity separate from him.
Happy Clappy
I decided to look at non-denominations in the form of Mega Churches that consisted of irreverent praise and worship music, rock bands, skits, big screen televisions, endless announcements, watered down seeker sensitive sermons, and altar calls left me with nagging doubts.
I saw Mega Churches springing up like weeds. Their shelf lives were short. Attendees were frequently jumping ship for even more hip pastors, more stylized worship, and better entertainment.
My Journey Concludes
I finally stopped attending church altogether, but as St. Cyprian of Carthage said, “A man cannot have God as his Father if he does not have the Church as his Mother”.
I started to become familiar with the teachings of the early Church Fathers. I began to clearly see that the early Christians believed and worshiped much differently.
Then late in life, I made the decision to “Cross the Bosporus”. I was accepted as a catechumen, and I was eventually Chrismated into the Holy Orthodox Church. I had reached the final stop on my journey at the Church of Peter and Paul.
Today, I am a member of an Antiochian Orthodox Church (Greek Church of Antioch). Liturgy is in English, Arabic, and Greek. The church is Eastern Rite, or Byzantine Rite. The exotic beauty of the ancient liturgy, the iconography, the mysticism, chanting, the permanence of tradition, divine union with an eternal and unchanging God, and worshiping with the eyes of the soul (Nous) are totally different from the worship of emotionalism and teaching of my Evangelical Protestant roots.
Orthodox means right belief. I know that I am not rolling out of bed on Sunday to hear social justice sermons, political correctness, or Heterodox fads.
Conclusion
Despite my rejection of my Evangelical Protestant faith tradition, I am eternally grateful for the moral and Godly upbringing I received from it. In an age of moral relativism, such a heritage is priceless.
I recently entered Minor Orders. I am currently an Acolyte, and I serve at altar. Now an older man, in what years I have remaining, I have resolved to live a pious life and serve the lord. Jobs, materialism, or the endless pursuit of pleasure pale when compared to final judgement before God and eternity. “For what shall it profit a man if he gains the world, and loses his own soul?” (Mark 8:36).
Like the tenth century pagans, I too am “at a loss of how to describe it”. But like them, I saw that “God dwells there among men” in the Church of the Apostles.
Read More: ROK Undercover: What It’s Like To Attend An Eastern Orthodox Church Service
ROK hasn’t talked much about girls raised on Eastern Orthodoxy, but from my experience in Europe, those girls are way harder to bed than girls raised on Catholicism. I’m not sure why this is, but the pattern is too consistent to appear as random. That probably could be why men seek wives in places like Ukraine and Russia instead of, say, Poland.
I met a orthodox Greek-Cypriotic girl in early 2016. She was really beautiful and appeared very conservative. We had a really nice connection and similar interests but she noticed some player elements in me from what I said and did, and chose to leave and did not respond to my messages afterwards. Some aspects of game such as to be well-educated and good looking is always good, but saying to a traditional girl that you do not necessarily want a serious relationship is the wrong choice.
The Bible says that ALL SEXUAL ACTIVITY OUTSIDE OF A MONOGAMOUS MALE+FEMALE MARRIAGE is sin. Only married couples should be having sex. This is for a number of reasons.
1) Sex makes babies.
2) Babies deserve to have both a mother and father as custodial parents.
3) Sex with animals and other things causes disease.
4) Sex is a promise to bond for life. Whether you like it or not, your bodies memorize each other, both mentally and physically! You become ONE FLESH. You become ONE ORGANISM functioning in two places at once! Multiple partners confuse your body and make it difficult to achieve sexual satisfaction over the long term.
5) In the largest study ever done on sexual satisfaction, virgins who married virgins were the most satisfied sexually. No regrets in their pasts, no disease, no fear of being compared to past sexual partners. Just love.
6) Sex is not only a physical act. It is a profound example of the love God has for his people. Just as men are profoundly different from women in every cell of their bodies, and God is profoundly different from humanity, we are to learn to enjoy the differences, and to LOVE THE OTHER, the one we are not like and cannot quite ever fully understand. It requires trust and hope, and all those nice 1 Corinthians 13 aspects.
7) God calls sex outside of marriage FRAUD. Love doesn’t leave the next morning. Taking the most personal parts of a person and tossing them aside as if they were toilet paper is THEFT. Your first times are special and you can never get them back. They are for the one who will love you for a lifetime.
8) What a partner does before they marry you is likely what they will do after they marry you. Let that sink in. Who want’s to waste time on a short-sighted selfish loser?
“ALL SEXUAL ACTIVITY OUTSIDE OF A MONOGAMOUS MALE+FEMALE MARRIAGE”
No actually, it doesn’t. It’s far more complicated that and many early Christians talked about it extensively. See Mary of Egypt for example.
The Bible tells the truth, unvarnished. Just because patriarch after patriarch failed to adhere to God’s clear directions, doesn’t mean the directions aren’t valid. The Bible also mentions the sad consequences for their failures. King David’s unwillingness to stick with one wife ended up in all sorts of horrible consquences for his competing wives and their children. etc. This is a cautionary tale that is being utterly neglected these days.
The first time something in the Bible is mentioned is the starting point for understanding future mentions of the same. The first mention of relationship is Adam and Eve. God didn’t make Adam many wives. He didn’t order them to intermingle with animals or angels. The entire creation story is the repetition of the words “God separated . . .” and “he made them after their own kinds (species were separate consistently reproducing the same kind, not evolution-progression of one thing to another). The main point of Genesis 6 is that angels had bred with humans, and by Noah’s day, they were mixing animal species and animal with human. They had destroyed the perfect ecosystem God intended in the beginning, and all life on the planet would have ended because of the degradation of the ecosystem. To save the creation at all he had to wipe out the degraded DNA with the flood and restart the ecosystem. The advent of all the same tampering in modern day is a strong signal that Jesus will be returning to do the same soon! Monsanto alone could destroy the ecosystem, never mind the transhumanist movement to give us immortality and special powers through both DNA splicing with other species, cloning, and high tech bio-integration.
Jesus warned that he in the “last days” before his second coming to rule the world in person visibly, it would be like in those days of Noah. Here we are!
Homosexuality is biological error. You can’t continue the species by that method. You can’t continue the species by breeding with other species either. No issue results because there is a barrier in DNA coding that prevents interspeciation.
If you assume that because people end up in less than a pure marriage that Biblical standards are no longer valid, you’re simply wrong. Does the law and mercy allow and accept sex outside of marriage, divorce and second marriages? Yes! It makes God angry, but some hard-heartedness is thrust upon us by selfish people, or people who were selfish in the past, and who would be creating more disruptive drama by trying to fix it in the present. In those cases, God says to “strengthen what remains” of relationships. He says “a bent reed he will not break” in his desire to see us live at peace.
It’s right to accept fallen people where they’re at. But it’s not the GOAL or the IDEAL to shoot for. Mary of Egypt is irrelevant. Only God’s opinion matters. If you are careful to read each word-meaning in scripture, you will get what you need from God to make wise choices.
I never said marriage isn’t the highest form of male-female relations.
But the idea that unmarried boyfriend/girlfriend are major sinners is not justified by the teachings of Christ. I have looked into this issue extensively and the subject is far more nuanced than 99% realize.
https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-47972.html
The intent is what counts; do you intend to use someone just for sex (then you are whoring) but if you intend to pursue a relationship sex is not whoring. On the other hand, if she is a virgin then you should respect her and wait if she desires marriage.
Virgins are virgins! You can’t get your first times back! In 1 Timothy, fornication is considered FRAUD (a crime).
The Law of Moses was a good set of laws. If a girl were touched, my understanding is that it was considered rape. It is touching, violent or NOT, a girl you have not committed to a future with. Whether or not family overlooked hand-holding and kissing during the engagement (considered binding, though cohabitation wouldn’t happen until the addition to the boy’s father’s home was made for her and the ceremony was celebrated), I imagine was up to them. For fornicators, there was a fine asserted against the boy who touched, paid by the boy’s father, and the marriage was made if possible. This concept is brilliant. Responsible parents would never let their kids go unchaperoned because they might be out a week’s pay! And kids were better for it! In terms of violent rape, I think everyone feels the justice of capital punishment for sadists. It’s a sad testament to our cowardice that we pay to house and feed violent sociopathic rapists, impoverishing our society, because someone is too squeamish to end the danger to our children.
There is not a virgin girl on the planet who doesn’t think of cottages with white picket fences the first time a boy shows any interest in her. Sexual interaction is naturally imbued with a sense of two people embarking on ONE FUTURE. Only those misused, tossed aside, and abandoned lose this hope. Sex is (and this is a shocker) primarily for making babies! It is NOT for selfish gratification of bodily urges! We are not animals! Nobody is supposed to be engaging in that behavior unless they can keep the family structure together. God didn’t invent orphans, nor abortion!
The hallmark of Baal/Molech worship is the sacrifice of one’s own children for the sake of “a bounteous harvest”. There are exceptions when a gestating baby becomes a physical aggressor against the life of the mother, but these are incredibly rare. That should be left between a doctor and the woman. There is no right to kill babies. Did you know there are almost exactly the number of barren couples out there waiting to adopt as there have been aborted babies? There ARE NO UNWANTED CHILDREN.
American dating is divorce practice. You go on a date and pretend to be wonderful, and you’re out away from family and friends so there’s nobody to call you on your fakery and nobody to protect you if they see your date exhibiting dangerous fakery of their own! There’s nothing good about it.
You want unmarried companionship? Go on group outings. Don’t tie up someone’s heart and then say “Oops! Sorry.” Ending this kind of dating relationship is always personal rejection. This can be devastating to people.
Courting is a deliberate statement up front that you are looking for a spouse. You state at the beginning that you are looking for specific things to confirm a lifetime marriage. If someone wants to explore marriage with you openly, then if you find things that are incompatible, it’s all good. You’ve been honest from the start. It’s not personal. It keeps things at arm’s length until financial and childbearing questions are answered, and if all moves on a practical level as wanted, then the emotional can begin. But not before other important rational needs are met first.
Emotions FOLLOW wise decisions. They should NOT INITIATE ANYTHING. Emotions are not facts.
In general Orthodox countries did not participate in the Enlightenment for different reasons each and as a result lack a secular past. This is also the reason why if one stops being an orthodox, even a troubled one, he seizes de facto to be part of the nation as the church is such a big part of it that nearly nothing can live outside of it. Notice I say this only stands for Orthodox countries and what I just described is something that I have witnessed personally in Greece, both from relatives and acquitances and from a careful study of history.
An another reason for the difficulty of orthodox women to be bedded (of course I am thinking of de facto orthodox secularish in order not to account for de jure believers and fanatics) is because of the clear message on sin that the Church and its teachings give. If one goes for a confession the priest won’t offer an easy way out but guidance for how not to sin again and even how to make amends with the afflicted if there were you might end up saying prayers but they are not an easy ticket, but just a part of something bigger.
Lastly there is something that would be good to be noticed: Everything in the Orthodox Church has a meaning. Everywher there is deep symbolism from the sign of the cross (when you do it with the three conjoined fingers symbolising the parts of the tripartite deity and also the other two closed fingers symbolising the double nature of Christ as stands in for the essences of the God-Man the Human and the Godly) or how the incence dispenser is being built (the four chains with the twelve bells on them stand in for the four evangelists and the twelve apostles, its base symbolizes the human nature of Christ, encases in the womb of His mother, the burning coal is the fire of the deity, which also symbolizes God’s love and the burning but not burning shrub, because it is the unceasing fire in the heart of every believer. I forgot the smoke is the movement of the soul through prayer to the Divine a reminder also that the believers are not meant to be stuck to the material and its smell is belief… there are more even.) and yes this extend to EVERYTHING!!! Orthodoxy is a leaving window to the middle ages that were still connected somewhat to the antiquity it carries both worlds with it a world full of divinity and ripe in meaning even in the most minute details.
*Upvoted for a friend.
Thanks nonetheless!
Excellently put and I concur with you entirely.
Great explanation, thanks. With Catholicism, I get the impression that you can live an entire live of sin, declare Jesus as your savior on your death bed, and all is good.
A catholic should answer that question but still I get the idea that it is more lenient. For what I can be sure though is that some forms of Protestantism (I think Calvinism) there is the belief of pre-ordained salvation: i.e. non-calvinists go to hell while calvinists go to heaven irregarding of their actions.
Nope. That sounds more like Protestantism–at least of the Evangelical style, though they would probably straighten up quite a bit before death. Some require baptism, if the person has never been baptized. Anyone can be baptized–even by a non-Christian, in extreme cases, by a motion of any amount of water and the Trinitarian formula Christ prescribed in one or more Gospels along with the intention of that one becoming Christian. Some “Bible” churches don’t even follow that and it the souls of thousands at risk of not being in Christ’s family. If baptized on the death bed or anywhere one is about to die, one goes to Heaven, I believe. If one is playing God, it might not take hold. God will not be mocked by one planning to live loosely and get baptized by water and the Spirit or seeming to accept Jesus, as some low churches might have it.
The Bible says that baptism is an outward act of obedience to Yeshua, as a public expression of an inward reality. It doesn’t save you. You do it because you have believed and you want to willingly obey the very first command God gives to believers. It is done by full emersion because it symbolizes death, burial, and resurrection to a new life. It cannot save you. The thief on the cross didn’t get baptized. It’s not to get saved. JESUS SAVES YOU. It’s just an act of obedience. It is inappropriate to take someone who gets saved on their death bed and dunk them somewhere, which could precipitate their death! It’s a SYMBOL, as is communion. Communion is a MEMORIAL to the work of Christ on the Cross. It is not magical. Both of these ordinances refer back to ancient Israel. The Mikvah was a ceremonial bath and was full emersion. Communion is the Passover Seder. You eat food, regular food, and it STAYS food. It is to remind us that our SPIRIT needs to feed on the purity of self-sacrificial love and forgiveness.
It doesn’t matter if you say “I baptize you in the name of Jesus” or “I baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit [Ghost].” It just matters that you do it in obedience to the Jesus’s instruction in the Bible, and not out of peer pressure or to make you “feel” more Christian.
Jesus is entirely different from all other religious thought and practice. He tells us that HE DOES THE WORK to save us. In fact, he sees our attempts to “make ourselves good enough” as nothing more valuable than dung and filthy rags. There is literally nothing we have to offer to make up for the bad things we’ve done to hurt each other. You see, even if you decide to do good and suddenly decide you want to please God instead of yourself and you attempt to restitute for your sins in this physical world, it’s impossible to pay for the emotional damage and the bad memories that will live on for as long as your victims are alive. And our victims are going to live forever. It’s like the story of the indian boy who insults his mother’s cooking. His father takes him out to the woods and instructs him to shoot an arrow into a tree. He tells him “now take it out.” Then he says “now take the hole out of the tree.” The boy protests that is impossible. And the father says, “you may apologize to your mother, but the harm you have to her heart cannot be plucked out like an arrow.”
Jesus had to pay for us. We do good works as believers because we want to express our gratitude and to give him pleasure. It’s how we begin to form a relationship with Jesus, and to listen for his direction for our lives and our choices.
It’s not about what we have to offer God. It’s about how he is MORE THAN ENOUGH to carry us.
Having grown up in Catholicism and banging my fair share of nice Catholic girls I would venture it is the present state of the religion and western man woman relationships.
The Catholic church has suffered greatly from the child molestation scandals and the left has used this as a big stick to beat the Catholicism out of its adherents. What used to be strong has now been reduced to a weak, insipid doctrine with weak, insipid leaders.
In my experience it’s the weakening of Catholicism and the western lifestyle of having it all with a dollop of copious amounts of cock.
They do not preach about hell from what I have seen.
Good, because it doesn’t exist.
It can be translated as “Lake of Lightnings” which is pretty much a physics definition of disorganized energy, kind of like what CERN in Switzerland is trying to create – antimatter. Only people who refuse to make friends with God will go there. People choose hell. Hell is final and complete separation from God and all his benefits. We aren’t in hell yet. We live in an orderly universe that obeys the laws of physics. The Bible says someday everything we see will pass away and we’ll move on to eternity if we love God. Why would you want to be trapped in this physical existence? That’s what hell is – this physical existence without any abstract reality that includes love, joy, patience, loyalty, goodness, perseverence, gentleness, truth, beauty . . . I could go on. And why do you want really horrible people to go unpunished for the evil they’ve done? I’m not saying hate them, but that the victims have a right to vengeance from God. Don’t they???
What can be translated as “Lake of Lightnings”? “Hell” doesn’t exist in Greek (at least in the Bible). Modern Greek for Hell is “Kolasi” which implies that you’re “stuck” in a bad place.
I’m agnostic, but understand the Orthodox concept of “Separation from God”. Whatever that is, it’s definitely NOT the fire and brimstone place everyone thinks of.
That concept came from the myths of Hades, and that itself has older origins.
Hades is a Greek word, and it’s NOT a MODERN word in the Bible, so you don’t look for modern definitions of it. Here’s an excellent link to the translation of geber (the grave in the dirt), Hades/Sheol (the place where the soul goes when the body dies), Gehenna/Lake of Fire, and Tartarus, and who goes there and what part of them is in which place and when.
https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/hell-sheol-hades-paradise-and-the-grave/
You want to avoid the idea of permanent punishment for unrepentant people who refuse to admit they were wrong. You apparently don’t put any value on their victims. You believe that the victims of wrongdoing should just suck it up? Get over it? God doesn’t! You get what you work for in God’s economy! If you do bad things, you get bad consequences! If you do good things then he promises reward far beyond what we deserve. That is justice! Mercy is for those who will recognize they did wrong, and ask for forgiveness for the harm they’ve done! There’s no mercy for willfully selfish rotten people who refuse to turn from their cherished sins! That’s not God’s choice!!! That’s THEIR CHOICE! Read John 3, the whole chapter!
Umm, I’m Greek and understand the words thank you.
Hades means “Unseen”, and it was referring to the underworld, where good and bad people would go. It was split between the Elysium Fields (where good people would go), Hades itself (where bad people would go), and Tartarus,(where the gods would sent other gods for punishment).
Tartarus was the only place of real torture. Elysium fields were these prairie like places of pure bliss for those who went there. Hades itself was gloomy and dark, like underground caverns, but no one was tortured.
Tartarus was the place where gods would be actively tortured, like Prometheus, for giving humanity fire. Even then, the torture wasn’t being burned. For him, it was to have a vulture show up and peck out his eyes every day, and then grow back for it to happen again.
Some of this filtered into Christianity, as apparently some of the Apostles believed in these places (Apostle Peter referring to Tartarus once in the Bible for example), and Jesus himself making a mention of Hades in the Greek style mythology, but with the Jewish Pharisee spin (in the Lazarus and the Rich Man parable).
As for what’s justice, does any crime at all deserve eternal torture, to never ever ever end? Even if the torture is not active (like being fried alive forever and ever, which is the modern culmination of the hell mythology), even if it’s just being locked up in jail for eternity, is that a just and fair punishment, even for the most heinous crimes?
I’m not at all convinced that the Bible borrowed anything. I think these ideas were universally understood by the ancients, who in the days of Nimrod, spoke one language and were one human race with no cultural divisions or distinct external identifiers. The oldest manuscript known is a copy of Job, written sometime between the flood and the times of Abraham and Nimrod. The Biblical texts are written by 66 different men and women, over a 1500 yr time period, and the oldest are not borrowing anything. They are telling the most concise and truthful detailed accounts of history, without the ego and self-aggrandizement you see in the histories that were lucky to survive Egypt, India, and Sumer. We can argue about dating ancient texts somewhere else. I would invite you to consider that the Biblical historical account is what is borrowed from, and twisted, in the rest of the world’s “mythology.” Also, all the writings we have today can be traced to only 4600 years ago at the oldest. All cultures have the same basic stories, though the names are changed from place to place because the languages are different from place to place (God confounded the one-speak into many languages at the Tower of Babel). Satan is Set, is Osiris, is Shiva, is any other god with a penchant for playing with humanity. And I don’t think the ancients were writing fairy stories either. I think a very frightening aspect of our world is the existence of very real and very evil entities. They affirm what the Bible says in Genesis 6. I’m saying the Bible posits some pretty amazing things, and the ancients back up a lot of it, though in their own words, and greater or lesser understanding, of what happened to them. “Fee Fie Foe Fum, I smell the blood of an Englishman” is not so funny when you understand that before Noah’s flood, there was deliberate tampering with the human genome to stop the birth of the messiah, and to degrade the perfection of God’s creation. Don’t think for a second that super soldiers with better than normal senses, like an enhanced sense of smell, weren’t done already in the deep past. Where do you think werewolves came from? They’ve been trying to mix wolf and man genes in black ops military programs since the late 50’s. Solomon said that all that was forgotten and that it would be back. Jesus said that as in the days of Noah, so it would be in the last days. And here we are. Transhumanism, cloning, interspecies genetic splicing, and all manner of tampering at corporations like Monsanto, perverting seeds for the almighty dollar.
I don’t think the Bible borrowed anything either. I am fully aware that the likelyhood of similarities in religions at the time, were most likely due to an informal consensus at the time of these ancient people’s beliefs. I agree with that so far.
I disagree that they were relaying eyewitness events of paranormal phenomena, or similar. More likely is that they were trying to understand natural phenomena instead, such as lightning and thunder. To an ancient (who probably had the same level of reasoning we have, but severely lacked the necessary knowledge to properly assess), a lightning bolt, followed by a crackling thunder strike, must have been absolutely terrifying, particularly if it hit someone and killed them, or if it lit a house on fire. These people must have thought that the gods were furious, and the temper tantrums they were having were reflecting in the weather.
Or in the case of hell, it’s likely that, again, ancients who found entrances to deep underground caves, were terrified of what they saw: A place that was dark, gloomy, full of musty foul air, and with literal knives hanging from the ceilings and floor (stalagmites and stalactites). Sometimes even bumping into rivers of lava, or underground magma pools.
They must have thought “why does such a place exist?” “It must be the gods punishing bad people here!”. And that’s most likely how the concept of hell evolved.
As for entities existing, yeah it’s possible. A lot of what’s going on today definitely seems like heavy manipulation of these beings. Who are they and what do they want? If they were evil, we’re all be dead already, or being tortured. Why even bother letting us live? If they are good, then they must have a plan (or him/it, if it’s a central being we can call God?)
If there’s a split between good and evil ones, are they at a stalemate? That is basically the confusion we are dealing with nowadays.
Even with all that said, I do think, based on what I have seen so far, that the God of the Bible exists (but that book badly misinterpreted him). Why he/it hasn’t shown up yet is a mystery.
Evolution violates the laws of physics and statistical probability. Unfortunately, modern academia has over 100 yrs of their pride sunk into this bankrupt idea, and a research system that has rewarded hoaxes and frauds. So I’m not surprised that you assume that humanity was apelike, and in then childlike, and is growing intellectually brighter all the time . But we are not descended from apes.
The high school textbooks for Biology 101 haven’t changed in 50 years! The assumptions in that book are proven wrong by the most recent discoveries. We have more in common genetically with sponges than with apes. Every “missing link” in the human progression from ape to man was a proven exposed fraud, but you never got to see the retractions! Humanity in its original perfection as God designed us was perfect. We used our entire brain. We ran and did not grow weary.
Your appendix is part of your immune system, it is not vestigial. Every plant and animal has a perfect place in the ecosystem. The ancient architecture is far better than what we have now. The two blocks of stone that hold up the base of the Sphinx are so large we don’t have equipment to move them without cutting them into smaller pieces. The ancient Sumerians and Egyptians had surgeons who even did brain surgery, although with different assumptions and tools. The ancients tell of gifted surgeons who actually made Frankenstein monsters that were so well put together that they were used as throw-away assassins. But all this is withheld from us by modern academia.
Every society ever known started at its peak and degraded until it fell. There was no gradual increase in law and manners that took us from cavemen to the princes of Egypt. We became “cave dwellers” through ritualistic drug addiction while performing worship to pagan gods. During the dark ages, I’m sure you can use your assumptions about stupid people trying to come up with ideas for dark places, but there have always been knowledgeable people in ivory towers quietly holding old knowledge.
God made angels first. They are somewhat 2-dimensional when it comes to spiritual things. They are self-conscious, and God-conscious, but they are not a part of a family. They don’t “like” each other, or “need” each other. They are all unique individuals with individual unique gifts. I rather think that in the full range of expression of their individuality, the 1/3 who fell were more gifted in physical attributes, and because they lacked other skills and found the physical more satisfying to stimulate, they fell into rebellion. They could not think relationally, just as our bodies don’t “think” but only feel/emote, and respond to fleshly desires. Some think the rebellion came because they watched God make this beautiful world, and thought it would be theirs.
Since the Bible is about Jesus and his work to create relationship with God for a humanity that has exercised its free will, perhaps this is why the evil ones are so hateful of God and hatefully jealous of us. In comparison to us, I’m sure many angels, the first being Lucifer, were disgusted that God would build such a beautiful world, and then give the world to humanity, who appeared to be no more special than dogs. God gave the dogs the world as a kingdom and a garden and a home!?? That must have burned Lucifer’s pride. Lucifer was smart, but not apparently capable of trust, in God or in anyone else. Lucifer has no relational aspect.
God made us male and female. He made two parts from a whole, and created need and want in both sexes. We need and want each other, and we have the joy of desiring love, conversation and shared memory. This is what God is like. And a committed marriage is a reflection of how we are female to God’s male, part of himself, wanted and loved. When we love God, new human spirits result!
We are NOT robots. We are able to think and choose how we act. We have free will. We were given a simple choice in the Garden. Trust God through obedience to a simple command, a simple test. When Adam and Eve listened to Satan and ate the fruit, empirical reasoning (ie. rationalizing one’s bad behavior) was born. Eve used her own judgment to decide what was good, rather than checking with God, and Adam handed their sovereignty as stewards of the planet to Satan when he obeyed Satan and ate.
Incidentally, it was a serpent in the garden, which is a shortened word for Seraphim, an angelic being that served directly in God’s presence. There weren’t any snakes. He is probably humanoid, or a shape-shifter, able to present himself to our minds as he wants to be seen.
There’s no stalemate. This period of 7000 years described in the Bible is a full display of God’s mercy, compassion, forgiveness, sacrificial giving, everything you wouldn’t be able to see if we were in a place where no disobedience and mean-spirited selfishness could exist. This place is a womb for spirits. We can grow as a baby does physically in the womb, growing in spirit, learning to be merciful, kind, compassionate, forgiving, and self-sacrificing in this temporary physical world. The harder the circumstances, the more we prove our spiritual character when we succeed in seeking God’s leadership.
We who recognize that Yeshua is the Creator, also can recognize that we have an opportunity to respond to the events and circumstances of our lives as God would, rather than selfishly. If we belong to him, all the good we do here will be rewarded exponentially in the next life. The physical body is just a temporary vessel. We should take care of it so that we can use it to bless others, but we shouldn’t act like it’s more important than the people around us.
We’re here to learn and grow. If you reconcile and become friends with God for who he has carefully shown himself to be in his Word, you have everything to live for. I think you have not had good Bible study teaching. You can’t just sit down and read the difficult parts and take your own impressions. You have to apply good scholarship and the rules of language to understand things in context.
Just for fun, look up Dr. Michael Heiser on youtube. He’s using proper scholarship. He didn’t just learn Hebrew/ProtoAramaic. He learned all the other local languages of the middle east to understand the Bible in context. And he’s just a man, so you’ll learn things from him, but where he is heavy on linguistics, you may enjoy Chuck Missler for historical contexts. Ravi Zecharias specializes in the philosophy of Christ, and each diligent Bible teacher has some other aspect to bring. You will never absorb the entirety of what is in the Bible in a short time. Every letter of every word has shades of meaning built into it. It was not written in English, and reading it only in English is to lose much of the folksy homey sense of it.
Just know we are in a real battle for the truth of our origins and our destinies, and we have a strong helper and a family to support us if we want it. But know this, there won’t be anyone in hell saying, “I wish I had made peace with God.” or “I wish I could have done better.” They will all be blaming God for their unhappiness, and none who go there will take any personal responsibility for their choices nor will they be repentant towards God for their sins. These are people who care not for their victims, and demand to run their lives as they please with no quarter given to others.
You seem to know quite a bit of mumbo jumbo that cannot be proven in any way shape or form.
Belief is fine, but don’t pretend that it’s all fact when it barely scratches theory (with no direct evidence to boot, only circumstantial evidence.)
There’s simply not room here to give you a bibliography. My hope is that you will search in new places, and not just swallow other peoples’ opinions, but take the Bible carefully word-for-word. Not a single verse of the Bible is a ramble. Every book of the Bible has carefully laid structure and purpose. Every word is carefully chosen and has embedded meaning in relation to the rest of the texts. You could check out the 5 minute summaries of each book of the Bible to begin to understand, at https://thebibleproject.com/explore/
Don’t be lazy about your eternal soul’s destination. I’m sharing this with you and I am not asking you for money or to make me famous. Make sure your sources for information are also offering you knowledge for the sake of knowledge, and not to line their own pockets.
And god is going to burn you in hell for eternity because he loves you.
What does the bible say about god being better than an earthly father ?
No earthly father would treat his children that way.
This kind of crap is proof that christianity is false.
No one but hateful asshole would burn his ” beloved children ” in hell for eternity, NO ONE but a violent psychopath and his hateful, hypocritical followers would do this.
Try reading something besides the King James version, there are other translations and points of view out there.
I understand the concept of punishment for wrongdoing, but hell for eternity is not only a bad translation, but completely out of character with what the bible says god is like.
Ah, the book of Job, where god and the devil make a bet, and innocent Job pays the price for it all.
The book of Job alone is proof that christianity is false.
“and not just swallow other peoples’ opinions, but take the Bible
carefully word-for-word. Not a single verse of the Bible is a ramble”
You sir, are an incredibly patronizing dolt. You know that I have read the Septuagint ON MY OWN, as well as the 1550 Stephanus NT and the 1880 Wescott-Hort NT (I have the Nestle-Aland 27 version on my phone).
I have not gotten information from ANYWHERE other than the Bible itself.
Case in point. You believe in in the Nephillim. Here’s what the Septuagint says:
Genesis 6:2:
Idontes de oi uioi tou Theou tas thigateras ton anthropon oti kalai esin.
Elabon yinaikas apo pason on ekseleksanto. Kai eipen kirios o Theos: ou mi katameini to pnevma mou en tois anthropis toutis eis to aiona dia to einai aftos sarkas. Esontai de ai imerai aftos ekato ikosi eti.
Oi de gigantes isan epi tis gis en tais imerais ekinais kai met ekeino, os eiseporeionto oi uioi tou Theou pros tas thigateras ton anthropon kai egennosan eautois. Ekeinoi isan oi gigantes oi ap aionos i anthropi oi onomasti.
Translation: Saw the sons of God the daughters of of man (in general) that they were good (pretty). They took wives from all, choosing the best ones. And said the Lord God, my spirit (force) will not stay with these men (which ones?) for ever, because they are flesh (which men?). The number of days they shall have is 120 years.
There were giants on the earth, and their days were from before, and after (from there to there) the sons of God went into the daughters of man and bore children. These were the giants that from forever were men of great name.
Ok, now some points:
1. I didn’t even bother looking at the KJV. I don’t care about the KJV or other translations. I looked at the LXX Septuagint I have on my phone.
I mentally typed in the Greek phonetically so you can read it.
2. God refers to some men as being flesh and blood, the sons of God? It definitely wasn’t the daughters of men. So the Nephillim were flesh and blood?
3. Then it mentions giants. What’s a giant? Well in Greek we say “megas” or “megalo” when something is big, “giga” or “gigantes” when it’s huge, and “teras” or “terastia” when it’s enourmous. Gigantes does not imply anything supernatural. It could have just been really really large men.
4. These giants existed from BEFORE and AFTER the sons of God went into the daughters of man. The text simply makes a point of stating they existed, and have nothing to do with the point of the sons of God sleeping with the daughters of men.
5. It goes to cement this by saying “these were men of great name”. MEN, Anthropi oi onomasti = MEN(Humans) of renounced name.
The text is not implying any supernatural cause to the “giants”. There were simply huge guys walking around, from the perspective of the writer, and also he noticed the men who were followers of God grabbed for themselves a bunch of the hot women, possibly from other tribes (the heathens I guess you could say).
Now if you want to infer extraterrestrial interference, or any other type of supernatural cause, you’re free to do so, but not from a straight reading of the text.
Care to study any other verses?
“This kind of crap is proof that christianity is false.”
I can guarantee you that the concept of eternal torture does not even exist anywhere in the Bible.
You are correct in your other post that the modern translations butcher the concept.
In the OT there isn’t even a concept of immediate punishment. It “seems” that the Jews expected dead people to be “resting” (unconscious) in Sheol, whether they were good or bad. There would be some future judgement, but it was unknown to them what, only that it would most likely be incineration by fire (not torture, but destruction). This eventually got tied to the Valley of Hinnon which in Greek is called Ge-Henna, and this was the beginning of the modern concept of Hell (Ge-Henna and the Greek Tartarus mixed together as one)
“Ah, the book of Job, where god and the devil make a bet, and innocent Job pays the price for it all.
The book of Job alone is proof that christianity is false.”
Innocent Job actually came out on top, with triple the riches, and basically triple of everything else.
The story itself is probably one of the most ancient, and I’m sure it was written by someone who had some horrible disease, and was trying to understand why “God” would let him suffer like that. So obviously there had to be a legitimate reason, and being “tested” by the devil seems like a reasonable one, at least to him.
None of that mean bupkes whether God exists or Christianity is true or false. “Christianity” is simply the belief that Jesus Christ is God. That’s it. It does not give a fuck about anything else.
And I’m agnostic, so I’m not some zealot preacher either, but you stupid atheists think you’re so enlightened, when in reality you’re just a stubborn stump.
Of course, you never go to the KJV for the nitty gritty! It’s a really good Word-For-Word translation, but it’s a translation with at least 12,000 minor errors (nothing doctrinally vital, but irritating small changes that were made to assert the divine right of kings by King James himself). You go to the original languages.
Thought-For-Thought translations are problematic because while they may express one thought, they may hide a multiple meaning intended in the Hebrew/Greek. They are good for what they are, but shouldn’t be the only thing you read. Jesus says whoever adds or takes away from the words of his mouth should be accursed. So we really should be using word for word translations, and studying to learn the thought for thought meaning by knowing the cultures in play at the time of each book we are studying.
You quoted Greek, not Hebrew. The Old Testament is written in Hebrew/Aramaic. I am impressed that you can write the Greek! But that’s just the beginning of your work to understand. Now study it word by word. Compare each word to it’s synonyms, and find what’s being stressed about that word choice. Compare to other passages in scripture (the first time a word is used in the scriptures settles it’s primary meaning), and who and where the speaker is, and who and where his immediate intended audience is. Every word is vital.
I would defer to a real scholar about the meaning of Elohim in various contexts. Elohim is a plural word, but often considered a proof of the trinity because it is used with a SINGULAR verb. This is God in his 3 persons doing something as a single being made of parts. This idea is repeated with the word “Achad” in the affirmation “Hear O Israel, the LORD (Yahweh) our God, the LORD (YHWH) is one (achad).” Achad means “one made of parts.” However, the Divine Counsel is called Elohim as well.
Dr. Michael Heiser picks apart all the places where Elohim is used. I think the only other places “sons of God” is used in the Old Testament as a title for a group always refers to angels, and the text of Gen 6 tells you very clearly that the GIANTS ARE THE HALF-BREED OFFSPRING of this mating between angels and human women. There were not giants until then. Yes, they were flesh and blood. Their bodies have been unearthed literally all over the world. You can’t walk anywhere the U.S. without someone in the last 400 yrs having found some in the ground they excavated for cellar holes and public works. The bones are quietly confiscated by the Smithsonian, and are never returned to their owners. Angels have physical bodies.
You are right to say that the Nephilim were there before the mention in Gen 6. Gen 6 is about the reason for Noah’s flood. If you read the Book of Jashur and the Book of Enoch, which are endorsed by the current Canon of Scripture, but are not included because their theme is not that of the Canon (The theme is the work of Yeshua towards mankind), you will find that this mating was in the days of Jared, and the fallen ones have found ways of accomplishing this after the flood as well. By the days of Noah, they were mixing the DNA of animal species and animals with human DNA. Noah was pure in all his “GENErations”. Noah was still fully human. The text doesn’t say that his wife, sons and daughters-in-law were pure. This pretty much accounts for Canaan’s unfiltered sexual perversion just a few years after the flood. Human DNA creates a being that is weak and sensitive in comparison to angelic beings. This sensitivity is what makes us amazing. Add a little angelic DNA to the mix and the resultant beings are uncompassionate, unempathetic, hedonists, with the emotional IQ of a 3-yr-old. These Nephilim were the Titans and the “gods” of old, the famous ones of folk lore.
Angels are able to move in more dimensions than we are. Their primary job is as messengers, but before humanity was created, it is likely that they had a history in this universe. I’m not claiming to be sure about this statement. I’m open to whatever is true, but not having access to the original source materials, I have to remain fixed on the Bible for my source. It is the only consistently correct source, and intellectually sound source I have found. I appreciate other ancient texts, but always find errors and downright fact twisting in them. Not to mention blatant financial interests promoted by hucksters looking for the cash and status, rather than the truth. Satan is called the destroyer of cities, and in a context that seems to be referencing times before humanity. For whatever reason, bad angels are still moving in the dimensions that allow them to accuse mankind before God. This isn’t odd really. This world in very large part is a courtroom, and a place where God’s sense of justice is being displayed. So for a while, the attorney for the plaintiff (Satan) is allowed on deck.
We are not the same kind as angels. We are made in God’s image. We have been removed from the immediate presence of God by our sin, which cannot exist in the immediate vicinity of God the Father, who is pure light (pure energy). Like hay in fire, we in our fallen physical/fallen spiritual states would burn up in his direct presence. There is something to our makeup that demands this separation. Since the death and resurrection of Yeshua, believers can survive him face-to-face, because they have a new spiritual nature, the Holy Spirit living in them, but not their old physical bodies. If they were to move to a place in his presence, they would be fully changed and redeemed physically into their eternal spiritual bodies. These old broken corrupted bodies don’t fit in a perfect realm.
I don’t think there are any extra terrestrials at all. Their behavior and intentions show that they are evil. There is no physical evidence for interplanetary travel. All the evidence points to interdimensional activity. Interestingly enough, MUFON (Mutual UFO Network), a serious scholarly research group, has found that when people are being harassed by what they perceive to be “aliens”, if they call on the name of Jesus, the attack immediately ceases. No other name does the job. Remember that.
Anyway, see vids by Michael Heiser, who has the education to speak and the guts to speak it publicly.
I am finding that there may be a lot more people here who are sons of Satan, rather than sons of God. God picked the line of Abraham in the midst of half human nations of Nephilim. Can it be that only those who are still human will be saved, while those who are over the tipping point genetically are not?
You still are really rationalizing how serious sin is. You think the victims are not worth an eternity of misery. Okay, well then, remember that Yeshua had to die to pay for that rotten, selfish, molesting behavior. His life is as infinitely precious as that behavior is infinitely evil. You CAN repent! It’s up to YOU! But if you don’t, you are the embodiment of all that is horrid. What help is there for you if your pride keeps you entrenched in self-right-ness? God made you like a clay pot. He invested the opportunity for immortality in you. If you refuse it, that’s on you! By insisting on remaining a wooden puppet instead of a real boy, you are making yourself nothing better than wood for the fire. We are here to see God as he responds to evil, and we can cling to him and admit he’s a right judge, or we can cling to our own judgment. The problem is, we didn’t create ourselves, and we don’t maintain our own existence. We exist at his whim and pleasure. He’s amazing to let us have a choice in the matter.
Your problem with God is that you love your sins, and don’t want them exposed. You can’t believe that anyone might know what you’ve done, and yet still love you fully. When you can come to the recognition that Yeshua LOVES YOU FULLY, and paid for you, and if you can agree with what HE SAYS about the nature of your choices, you can be saved. If you cling to your sin, and think of yourself as a better judge than God ever could be (and that’s a real stretch, buddy) you can’t enter eternity in God’s presence. He can’t look on sin.
“For it is by grace (unmerited favor) you have been saved, and this not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, so that no man can boast (about how good he is). Eph. 2:8,9
We perceive God’s stating of consequences for our actions as curses. In our fallen nature, we transfer our guilt and shame onto God and allow ourselves to think that he hates us. This simply isn’t true. The word curse is a statement of consequences. If you put your hand under falling hammer you will get hurt. That’s not a statement of anger. It’s a statement of fact.
He hates SIN. He hates us putting our hands under falling hammers! He LOVES US. But he gave us free will. SIN separates us from Himself and each other. The whole point of the Bible is Yahweh/Yeshua taking on the problem of free will and sin and making a way of reconciliation that satisfies justice fully. He DID IT. All you need to do is set aside your mental framework and presuppositions about him, and BELIEVE what he says about himself. He’s not angry with you. He didn’t give you a bunch of do’s and don’ts in order to be accepted by him. He DIED for you in your place. And he lives for you to see you turn and love him back. If you reject him, he will not force you to love him.
He didn’t ask YOU to sacrifice your own baby. He explained that the most precious blood sacrifice was necessary, and HE PAID IT once and for all, for all mankind. He gave Abraham a substitute. He gave all of humanity a substitute. Himself. And now the highest expression of love has been made. To die for someone, especially someone who hates you, is the ultimate form of caring. To save someone who has no appreciation for what you’ve done is beyond understanding with the mind. You can only understand with the heart. Do you have a heart?
What you’ve just said about Sheol/Hades and Gehenna are true, and basic Christianity acknowledges what you have written. I don’t understand why you have this attitude that somehow Christian churches are twisting the Bible. The Lake of Fire in Revelation 20 is the final judgment of the unrepentant dead. Especially for Evangelicals, who care to see humanity come to saving faith in Christ before they die and lose the opportunity to go to heaven, is the “big thing” you want to avoid at all costs. That final Hell, and we lazily use “hell”, an English word that is not as specific as Sheol or Gehenna, as a blanket term for separation from God both physically and spiritually at the end of this time/universe. There aren’t many people who would quibble about the dead before the final White Throne Judgment and the dead AFTER it, when both groups are going to be missing from heaven. Don’t you think heaven is far more important?? You talk of the Bible as I would talk of Dante’s Inferno. His fictional account is interesting in terms of understanding crime and punishment, but not really biblical in doctrine.
You’re ascribing/transferring emotional content to something that’s simply a fact of nature. God is fire, we are paper. If we don’t want to be anything more than paper, then we simply cannot exist in his presence as a matter of fact. If we DO want to be with him, he will transform us into gold, into spirit, which cannot burn. There’s no desire in God to inflict pain out of spite.
“Thought-For-Thought translations are problematic because while they may express one thought, they may hide a multiple meaning intended in the Hebrew/Greek. They are good for what they are, but shouldn’t be the only thing you read. Jesus says whoever adds or takes away from the words of his mouth should be accursed”
…………….and you’d be the first person in this conversation doing that, since that verse you quoted was referring SPECIFICALLY to Revelation, and the words that the writer wrote in that book.
Thought for thought translations exist EXACTLY because the meaning the original writer had, was probably based on a culture we no longer understand, and the writing seems to imply something different to us. A clear example is the word “Aionas”, which literally means “of the age”. But depending on context, sometimes it means ancient, sometimes it means forever, and sometimes it means awe inspiring. If you do word for word, aionas always means “of the age”
“You quoted Greek, not Hebrew. The Old Testament is written in Hebrew/Aramaic. I am impressed that you can write the Greek! But that’s just the beginning of your work to understand. Now study it word by word. Compare each word to it’s synonyms, and find what’s being stressed about that word choice.”
Do you speak Greek, or Hebrew? Eisai Ellinas phile? Menis stin Ellada? I USA?.
You’re right I don’t speak Hebrew. I happen to be half Greek and speak fluently. I also am not a scholar. But the 70 men who translated the Septuagint were Jewish Scholars who knew Greek. I’d trust they chose the right words to translate the book.
“I would defer to a real scholar about the meaning of Elohim in various contexts. Elohim is a plural word, but often considered a proof of the trinity because it is used with a SINGULAR verb”
I know even today in Greek, we will use plural words to describe an individual of authority. We say to a friend “Eise kala?” (Are you ok?). We will no say that to someone we haven’t met, it’s rude. We instead say the plural of eise, which is “eiste”. So to an older gentleman we will ask “eiste kala kirie?” (are you ok sir?). And if we are asking a bunch of people, we use the true meaning of the word “eiste kala filoi?” (are you ok friends?). So in Greek, plural also means singular with respect.
Perhaps Hebrew was the same? Elohim could have been singular with respect?
For the record I don’t believe in the “Trinity”. Most likely, Jesus genuinely believed he was Yaweh, and not his “son”.
“Yes, they were flesh and blood. Their bodies have been unearthed literally all over the world. You can’t walk anywhere the U.S. without someone in the last 400 yrs having found some in the ground they excavated for cellar holes and public works. The bones are quietly confiscated by the Smithsonian, and are never returned to their owners. Angels have physical bodies.”
Again, there is evidence that in the past there were really large people. That doesn’t mean they were supernatural. Even today there’s people who are over 7 feet tall, like Shaquille O’Neil. Is he supernatural?
“Book of Enoch, which are endorsed by the current Canon of Scripture, but are not included because their theme is not that of the Canon”
I read a bit of the book. It says that the watchers were 3000 feet tall. That’s taller than the Burf Kalifa, the tallest building in the world. How these giants were supposed to take human women, hmm, their penises must have been enourmous to fit into a human woman’s vagina.
“a serious scholarly research group, has found that when people are being harassed by what they perceive to be “aliens”, if they call on the name of Jesus, the attack immediately ceases. No other name does the job. Remember that.”
I’ve had dreams where I call the name of Jesus to protect me, and nothing happens. I’ve had the reverse also, where the name does protect me. I do however, agree that there definitely is something beyond our senses. Is in interdimensional? Possibly. We don’t even know what another dimension would theoretically be like. What do these beings want?
I do however, believe that the Nephillim were NOT these beings, nor were they in anyway supernatural. But they are certainly using that falsehood to hijack themselves into modern culture’s fascination with them.
What is the lake of fire to you?
Reminds me of both the Republican and Democratic parties. They both are useless.
“it’s the weakening of Catholicism and the western lifestyle of having it all with a dollop of copious amounts of cock that renders most Catholic women cum dumpsters”
and I’m quite certain if you were to call them out for it, the heretics of the church would probably nail you to a piece of wood.
And also don’t forget that the Church structure is rotten at the top and totally in bed with the Globalists. Shit rolls downhill.
This is what Hillary’s 33,000 emails are about – child abuse as a tool for blackmail to allow the Vatican to control world leaders. This is why Ratzinberger stepped down.
A Church is only as good as its clergy.
They have forgotten what a warrior monk means……
Catholicism is more of a club than a life-changing faith to most of its adherents. It makes sense
Being of Greek extraction, in my estimation it is because the religion is very paternalistic and in turn believers/adherents accordingly are paternalistic in their families whereby they run things with a very firm hand. Between that and a culture that is near militant as far as maintaining traditions having been subjugated by the Ottomans for centuries, you can see the effect where women are largely kept in line.
I’m Russian. Ukranian and Russian women just hate sex. They’re cold rude non-feminine bitches
An Italian woman told me that a common debate in Italy these days is wondering why Italy and other Catholic countries tend to be far more corrupt and less efficient than Protestant ones. She said many Italians are beginning to think it comes down to confession. Confession has created a culture that doesn’t require you to be accountable, honest and dependable. Instead, have fun, make money, take bribes and then just confess and everything is OK.
Protestants try, or used to try, to follow scripture and not men’s traditions, especially the paganism the Romans brought artificially onto the followers of Christ from the beginning. The only doctrine the Roman Catholic church gets right is that Jesus is God. The rest of their list of how to get to heaven is all paganism. You can’t PAY God for forgiveness! What an insult to the sacrificial death of Yeshua that covers all our sins! The Confessional RC-style is a blackmail scheme that even Chaucer wrote about a thousand years ago! It goes back to Nimrod’s Chaldean priests, who in an unbroken line, have managed to retain their professional positions of religious leadership from one world dynasty to the next. From Nebudchadnezzar to the Medo-Persians, then the Greeks, then the Romans, and then because of Constantine the Vatican, these mages, maji, pagan cultists control most world politics today. It has nothing to do with the contents of Scripture in its original languages.
The Protestant movement began when Luther realized that the Bible clearly says we are saved by believing and receiving the payment of Christ for our sins by dying on the cross and rising again, and the forgiveness and reconciliation He paid for between us and God the Father. It is less corrupt because each individual is supposed to look to Jesus for direction, not follow a human leader blindly. There are protestant groups, like Episcopalians, that are only a small step from the RCC, and there are churches that might as well be pagan, like Word-Faith Pentacostals. The Evangelicals get the heart of the Bible closest. The purpose of this physical life is to find spiritual friendship and reconciliation with our Maker. This physical reality is all going to end someday, and not worth the time of day if your spirit isn’t first at peace with God. Material goods are a tool to express ideas. They are not the meaning of life. The 10 Commandments express our right attitude towards God, and mankind. God comes first. He teaches us how to be loving to the rest. Mankind is second. People are more important than “stuff”. Stuff comes last, and is given as a way to learn to manage ideas and bless people. We sin when we make “stuff” more important than people.
I don’t think it’s a Catholic v Orthodoxy issue. It’s a cultural positioning one. Recall, Catholicism in Poland for the entire 20th cent was accepted, allowed, and even grew as the primary state religion. Even during the world wars and communism. In fact, one can argue that the rise of St. PopeJP2, as a polish catholic not only proves Catholic primacy in Poland all those years, put led to to the fall of Communist Poland.
I believe when a faith (not a religion) is so commonly accepted, it loses its “saltieness.”
Orthodoxy, OTOH, was suppressed in the Soviet states. Fundamentalist Orthodoxy for sure was suppressed and in its place atheism and statism was promoted. The bloc states were very orthodox and far more repressed by Soviet policy than the bloc nations like Poland. By the time the bloc fell and Communism was overwhelmingly rejected, a bizarre hedonistic and consumerist secularism rose. (I remember arriving in Riga Latvia for work in 1996 and the very first billboard ad I saw was a VERY raunchy strip club ad, on the tarmac!)
The micro remnant of faith (not state) Orthodoxy that remained was incredibly strong. We’re now 1 1/2 generations out from the Soviet fall and the hedonistic secularism has all but burned itself out in those bloc states (imo) and Orthodoxy is about the only competing narrative left (besides Russian nationalism; which btw is why I think Putin has tried to closely align himself with the patriarch.). To be in a family that continued and continues to embrace Orthodoxy in those former bloc states means you take your faith very seriously (again, imo).
That is exactly why. It is also why the west will collapse entirely within the next 10 years. You might think I am nuts, but consider this: Would a common garden variety citizen of the Soviet Union in the year 1979 have been able to foresee the collapse of the Big Country only ten years later? The moguchaya and velikaya, mighty and great Soviet Union, the pinnacle of communism?
No of course not and if you had suggested it, you would have been dismissed and laughed out of the KGB’s offices without even being arrested, because it is too crazy and unthinkable.
But it happened, the country collapsed, tanks drove onto red square and they also took shots at the Parliament, the then Soviet Duma.
Mind you well, the west will collapse because it is obviously the will of the deep state. Perhaps you might try to learn Russian and then some Church Slavonic, it will become useful arguing with Russian border guards to let you in for asylum.
I wish you weren’t right.
What is important with the sinners prayer is the death of the self. We must carry our cross and die to ourselves daily and live in the spirit.
As “Christians” we should more emulate the first church in Acts.
Fyi, We are told to come out of Babylon and John is shocks to see the whore of Babylon because he realized it is what the church had become.
All this to say, “only scripture” and being guided by it is more important than a denomination (i categorize denomination as baptist, Catholic, orthodox ect…).
There is a vast amount more to talk about and i get the author, i would like to add, even in orthodox, if you dont die to your self, Christ cant live in you.
A lot of “Christians” including myself, have not died to ourselves. Im viewing this more in a practical way.
Food for thought. ONLY SCRIPTURE ?
It says if we belive in heart and confess with out mouth we are saved right? Also says narrow is way a few find it. Both are true, i put more weight on the “few find it”
Leads me to believe few really do believe in heart….because the lack of death of ourselves
Hardly any denominations preach on the Old Testament and the Torah, which is righteous living in the Lord’s eyes.
Go convert and become a Jew already.
So God gave Jews his rules to living a righteous life so they could be a light unto the world but he wants Catholics to do whatever they please and change his word to their liking? Maybe that’s why most Catholics aren’t a fan of the recent popes or the direction the church has taken.
With the coming of Christ a new covenant was created and his followers became the New Israel. Circumcision of the flesh was no longer needed but of the heart. Passover is no longer observed as Christ replaced the sacrificed lamb.
The new covenant was that he would put the law on our hearts and give us the Holy Ghost to help us walk it out. Nowhere does the Bible say the law was abolished, Jesus himself said until all was fulfilled and since the end times haven’t happened, it’s still there. That’s what defines sin and that’s the standard everyone will be judged against.
If you want to be saved, you have to repent, be baptized in the Holy Spirit, and sin no more.
The “die to self” repenting is included in that or assumed.
But to clarify, repent and die to self and live in spirit, with belief/faith in who and what Christ did for us.
The architecture of Saint Basil’s Cathedral on Red Square in Moscow was inspired by the Volga Bulgarian cities. The Kremlin is almost a copy of the old Kazan fortress.
http://rusmania.com/perch/resources/stbasil-3.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Kazan_church_edit1.jpg
Those are beautiful. I’ve always loved how colorful and unique Russian architecture is. Too bad Ivan the Douchebag offed the dude(s?) its design could never be replicated…
I’m Russian and prefer Spanish architecture
Reformed doctrines aren’t part of the tradition of “Evangelical Protestantism”, it has only been growing in popularity as a weak reaction to the popularity of heretics in the church, such as the “prosperity doctrines”, which are not a part of the tradition of “Evangelical Protestantism” either.
But, the modern rabbit generations would rather run to safety than to stand and fight for their church. Or their country. Or their family. Or their future.
Always running away and not realizing that their conditioning isn’t for a discernment of truth, but sensitivity to conflict. To keep protecting yourself you get very good at identifying the signs indicating you need to run away again.
It’s the same dynamic in the secular world. Instead of fighting for a country through political, philosophical, and non-violent means, we chose not to fight at all and now the list of viable options to change course grows shorter and shorter.
Eventually there are no more places to run. Eventually every church, every organization, every family, every nation will be threatened by those who would subvert what it stands for.
You can’t grow stronger when you’re running away from resistance instead of facing it.
Being in the right country, marrying the right woman, agreeing with the right philosophies, or going to the right church, none of it will save you, especially if you are willing to abandon them as soon as things get sufficiently difficult.
This is why your choice in life boils down to God or nihilism. Everything else is just a distraction running out the clock.
The early Christians we’re not wearing dresses while hanging out in Golden idolatrous cathedrals teaching about works based salvation.
They weren’t living in giant mansions and having legions of people watch their sermons on TV either.
The Orthodox Christians I know live the Bible, very few Christians do that.
Not defending mega churches, I’m defending the Christians who walked with Christ in poverty and had to go into hiding.
Orthodox mock the Bible as “man made”, they believe their solitary lifestyle and works will save them.
Well knowing many Orthodox Christians, I could easily say they adhere to a good set of morals compared to many Evangelicals I used to know, so that alone is a good thing. We got the Evangelical Churches and the Catholics, and both are highly ineffective at making their followers into functional productive people these days.
Their women don’t sleep around, they rarely divorce, most have good sized families. Lot of good about them.
No Orthodox mock the Bible, nor do they think their works will save them. Lies are unbecoming. Only Jesus the Christ, the Son of the Living God, saves. Orthodox do take the words of St James seriously, however.
The Bible certainly is man-made. But, those who read it through an allegorical lens, will come upon many Divine principles. This is why genuine traditional religions have highly-trained priesthoods who spend years learning how to properly interpret scripture and thus properly guide the masses toward a godly mode of living.
Protestantism is the original modernism of the West. It rejects tradition and hierarchy and allows for any johnny-come-lately dumbass to interpret scripture in any way they see fit. Protestantism, particularly the Low Church variety, manifests as the Dunning-Kruger effect applied toward metaphysical matters.
The Bible is God made. Also protestants brought Christianity back to its roots, and freeing it from the pagan bureaucracy of the Catholics.
Pointing to low hanging fruit like Joel Osteen doesn’t prove anything, anyone can call themselves a Christian and preach BS, just like the Orthodox who ignore the word of god.
To what roots? If you had roots in anything you would have one church , not millions of different ones all preaching Sola Scriptura but all differing on the interpretation of the word. And since when was having lesbian bishops (methodist church), homosexual priests (Anglican church), and millionaire pastors, returning to the roots?
Umm when did I say that? I made it clear in a comment above that I’d rather be more like the early Christians instead of a rock and roll megachurch. I’m just saying its disingenuous to throw independent fundamentalists under the bus with the low hanging fruit, all while praising heretics just because they have a nice looking church, even though they’re spiritually dead.
“The Bible is God made”
Nope, sorry, humans composed every word of it. Multiple humans over the span of several centuries. A serious analysis of the text will reveal many places where redactions of verses from earlier versions and new additions are quite obvious. Scribes and scholars working for “Holy Mother Church” wrote and curated these texts from day 1.
“Also protestants brought Christianity back to its roots”
No they didn’t. A bunch of 16th century iconoclastic rabble rousers didn’t know jack shit about church congregations that existed more than 1,000 years before their time. Where would have they gained such knowledge from? What made their own scriptural interpretations any better than the next guy’s?
Religious bodies with established lineages and ritual structure are a lot more of a reliable source on what the original traditions were like. Johnny-come-latelys making up their own half-baked interpretations based on the currentyear fads of whatever time period in question, tend know fuck all about actual traditions.
Did “God” attend the Council of Nicea?
Lol, Catholics and Orthodox were formed hundreds of years after Christ died, there is no historical evidence proving they were the first churches.
“rabble rousers” lol, nope it was people who simply read the original translation and realized that the bureaucracy that demanded people give their money to be “absolved from their sins” were full of shit. Some of theme did still keep the bs traditions of the Catholic church and formed their own man made religions, but the point is that the original hebrew and greek texts go against the teachings of Catholics and Orthodox, in fact their teachings line up more with the Pharisees, a bunch of men in robes in elaborate churches who demanded that they be worshiped instead.
Again, the tradition is meaningless if the doctrine is wrong.
But what exactly are the roots? The Bible doesn’t explain the order of the church so we have to rely on the early church fathers for that information. I get your point tho but it’s not that simple.
“They weren’t living in giant mansions and having legions of people watch their sermons on TV either.”
You mean…..Cashflow Dollar isn’t a real pastor??? /s
They taught what Jesus taught, that faith and works are linked.
In the account of the judgment Christ makes clear that we can’t claim to love Him and have faith in Him if we fail to help our brothers and sisters here. As James states- faith without works is dead.
Nope, works can’t get you into heaven, otherwise everyone is going to hell since its impossible to be sinless.
john 3:16 made it very clear: “For God so loved the
world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in
him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
James 2:14–26
is sometimes taken out of context in an attempt to create a works-based
system of righteousness, but that is contrary to many other passages of
Scripture. James is not saying that our works make us righteous before
God but that real saving faith is demonstrated by good works. Works are
not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation. Faith
in Christ always results in good works. The person who claims to be a
Christian but lives in willful disobedience to Christ has a false or
dead faith and is not saved. Paul basically says the same thing in 1 Corinthians 6:9–10. James contrasts two different types of faith—true faith that saves and false faith that is dead.
Many profess to be Christians, but their
lives and priorities indicate otherwise. Jesus put it this way: “By
their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thorn
bushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good
fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad
fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not
bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their
fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’
will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of
my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did
we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name?
Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them
solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers’” (Matthew 7:16–23).
The question of faith alone or faith plus works is made difficult by some hard-to-reconcile Bible passages. Compare Romans 3:28, 5:1 and Galatians 3:24 with James 2:24.
Some see a difference between Paul (salvation is by faith alone) and
James (salvation is by faith plus works). Paul dogmatically says that
justification is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9),
while James appears to be saying that justification is by faith plus
works. This apparent problem is answered by examining what exactly James
is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have
faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-18). James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26).
James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but
rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good
works in his/her life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no
good works in his/her life, then he/she likely does not have genuine
faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).
Paul says the same thing in his writings. The good fruit believers should have in their lives is listed in Galatians 5:22-23. Immediately after telling us that we are saved by faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8-9), Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10).
Paul expects just as much of a changed life as James does: “Therefore,
if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new
has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17).
James and Paul do not disagree in their teaching regarding salvation.
They approach the same subject from different perspectives. Paul simply
emphasized that justification is by faith alone while James put emphasis
on the fact that genuine faith in Christ produces good works.
We are in agreement, so not sure why you started with ‘nope’, I did not say we are saved by works and neither does the catholic church. Christ’s sacrifice and our faith in Him are our salvation. Works spring from that faith.
However, depending on which version of the bible you read ‘alone’ isn’t included in the line ‘saved by faith’. That was a translation by Martin Luther, who was the first to add it as he thought it better captured the intent of the passage than a direct translation of the original. He could be right, I can’t read the original language, I just know translations prior to that simply said ‘saved by faith’.
Christ preached an active faith, not a passive one.
Matthew: 23, 31-46
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Great choice.
believe > coins
I must admit….my own total disgust with Churchianity has led me to exploring the Orthodoxy a lot more than I ever have in the past. The feminization of the Protestant sector…..along with the rampant sex scandals surrounding Catholicism…..makes it difficult to take mainstream religion seriously.
“.along with the rampant sex scandals surrounding Catholicism…..”
Indeed – and also the Pope essentially selling out all of christianity by getting on board with the globalists and towing the progressive narrative.
YES!!!!!!! I can’t like this enough! I don’t think there has EVER been as big a disgrace to Catholicism as this Pontiff living and working behind guarded walls (well, I think living….depends on where that apartment of his is) and telling other countries that they need to take in the goat humping rapefugees.
The RCC is 2000 years old, it has survived schisms, anti-popes, wars and prejudice. It will outlast the current Pope, it will take decades if not longer to overcome its sex scandals but it will survive, why – because it still preaches the Word. The Orthodox churches can be a visible example to the RC Church to return it older ways. The RC church is composed of fallible, sinful people just like any bureaucracy. It is a reflection of the human condition. if there are only a few who are truly faithful, then by the grace of God they will be enough. After all there were only twelve original members.
It’s a great thing Russian women and other Orthodox Christian women are not devolving socially, Russia and a few Eastern European countries will be the only white Christian nations left on Earth soon.
I’m Russian and Russia is SHIT
Yeah and I am Santa.
Every country is shit right now. Exceptions are Switzerland, New Zealand, Japan, and Singapore.
UAE is good if you’re a Muslim.
I want to get rich and live in Spain, Italy, Portugal, South America, Thailand
Thailand is great. In South America it’s Argentina and Chile.
I took Spain off my good list after they had Islamic terrorism and Italy as well as Portugal have the same problem with Muslims destroying anything good about them.
Makes you wonder the rich Muslim places like UAE and Saudi Arabia have zero immigration from other Muslim nations, they only allow in rich ones but these stupid idiot European governments let in millions of poor ones into their countries.
I like mulatto women so I like Brazil, Cuba, etc
Brazil’s good.
A McChristian girl I met on a flight tried to “convert” me several weeks ago. Which was funny because I am already a Christian of a much older denomination than hers. She was convinced that her own beliefs, shallow as they were, were the one and only way to go and anything else was a one-way road to sunburn city and Hellboy.
She also tried to convert me to veganism, because she had read a book about it that convinced her that not eating animals is the way, the truth, and the life. She told me that I should read the book but should watch out because it is “highly convincing.”
I began to see a pattern emerging with her. I told her that I loved hunting, and my venison steak too much. And didn’t Jesus fill the nets of fishermen? That was the end of our conversation.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d4011b1dab4804460e0fb1e2115ba16d6f75806725f4569ffcadce4409787405.png
God don’t need no Winchy. He just zaps the critters by hand, fully cooked.
“She was convinced that her own beliefs, simplified as they were, were the one and only way to go and anything else was a one-way road to sunburn city and Hellboy.”
Sounds like one of those Church of Christ doucherags
Yep, that’s Protestantism + typical female solipsism.
Protestantism itself the Dunning-Kruger effect applied to metaphysical matters.
I agree wholeheartedly with your first statement.
Am curious what you mean by the second. To my discredit, I did not know what the Dunning-Kruger effect was prior to your comment. To my cursory understanding, it is the observation that the most inept tend to believe that they are superior to others in their abilities. And the most gifted tend to believe the opposite, that everyone else finds everything they are able to do easily, equally facile.
I was wondering if you could clarify that last statement in regards to Protestantism.
Sure. Protestantism, specifically the Low Church kind, allows people of grossly subpar competence to greatly overestimate their own abilities in terms of understanding metaphysical subject matter, which of course would include interpretation of ancient religious scripture. Any Joe Six Pack could read the Bible and pull their own pet interpretation out of their ass and if they are charismatic enough, gather enough followers who believe his in the horseshit he spews.
The Vatican knows that they can corrupt a large group of people by sending a plant to infiltrate at the top, or compromise someone at the top with blackmail. This has been corrupting national leadership and politics for centuries, and it affects the church in America. They regularly send priests to masquerade as pastors who avoid the Bible and instead preach “feel good” self-focused sermons, and equate American tradition with biblical righteousness. There are actually about 80 questions one is supposed to answer before offering the meaning of a passage, so that it is taken in its linguistic, cultural, and historical context. God says in his Word that there IS NO PRIVATE INTERPRETATION of his Word. Lazy, poor, or no real scholarship in most of America’s leadership is showing. The advent of Evangelical Christianity is likely represented in Rev. 3 as the church of Philadelphia. Only one or two of those old churches was spared criticism. It’s sad, but Yeshua is still merciful. He saves us. We don’t save ourselves through good works.
Which explains why there’s so many Protestant sects and splinter groups. Since Luther, every man can read the Bible for himself (instead of having it read for him) and they also think themselves qualified to interpret it any way they wish (of course under the guidance that voice in their head they mistake for the Holy Spirit).
Wow, you showed you read somewhere about the Dunning-Kruger effect. Enough food for your vanity for the day?
Probably a seven day Adventist. Their founder preached vegetarian diet. As a whole, those guys are usually a good bunch who preach the Bible as the Bible saids. I bet this particular individual probably was just feeling herself a bit too much. A common human error we all are prone to.
I don’t see how people can be against sola scriptura. It’s because of people not sticking to it that we have these churches accepting openly gay pastors, downplaying sin, and not sticking to the word of God.
The Catholic Church is against Luther’s “sola scriptura” claims mainly because scripture alone wasn’t the main way of teaching the faith in the first 1500 years of Christianity. Up until the Guttenberg press, average people didn’t have immediate access to the Bible–which were typically kept in the Church and studied by clergy and taught. This is why many traditionalist Catholics view the Protestant reformation as a refusal to accept traditional and ritual teaching of the Church. Catholics assembled the Bible for the rest of the Christian world, who took it upon themselves to discard the books they didn’t like. It’s important to remember Luther was regretful of his questioning of the Church, for his grievance was mainly with selling indulgences to raise money for St. Peter’s Basilica and not Marian devotion and papal authority.
It’s like saying that everyone in the Christian world had it wrong for a thousand years until a chubby German with a funny hat showed us the light. If you read the writings of the early Church fathers, you’ll see the genesis of the pre-Vatican II church. The closer you get to the spring, the crisper the waters.
You’re assuming everything the early church fathers did was correct and the Catholic Church didn’t get anything wrong. Most early church fathers resented the messianic Jews and changed a lot of things. Jesus spent most of his time arguing with the Pharisees about the doctrine of men which is what the Catholic Church has become. Why don’t Catholics celebrate God’s biblical feast days? Why did they change the sabbath to Sunday? They are no different that the Pharisees and by not supporting sola scriptura they give themselves the authority to change the word of God.
The Sabbath always has been, and remains, Saturday, the last day of the week.
The first day of the week, Sunday, is the day on which the Lord arose from the tomb of His own power, and is therefore called The Lord’s Day. It has never been and is not now, the Sabbath.
So why don’t they stress the importance of the sabbath?
They, who? If you want to know, ask “them.”
Any Catholics or Eastern Orthodox. Most I asked don’t seem to know so I was curious if any in this comment section knew.
If memory serves well then it has been established The Catholic Church organized and compiled The Bible to what we have today even the KJV is based off of the Bible The Church compiled. And if I’m correct the Protestant Bibles are missing a few books. Wisdom,Tobit, sirach, Judith, Baruch, Maccabees, in addition to extra some extra verses of Daniel. Wasn’t it Luther that hated the book of James because of James 2:14-26( faith without works is dead)? Plus he hated Revelations.
Because The new covenant which fulfilled the old convenant was completed when The Lord rose. Just like the animal sacrifice was done away with a better and superior daily sacrifice was instituted with bread and wine which Jesus told us to partake in.
So the 10 commandments have been abolished according to catholic interpretation of the Bible?
Fulfilled not abolished. By that logic you have then Jesus himself abolished the ten commandments.
Jesus did not abolish the law, he came to fulfill prophecy, he himself said nothing would pass till all was fulfilled. If there’s no law then there’s no sin since sin is transgression of the law, and that would mean there’s no need for a savior. Most churches preach against the Torah because they say it’s been abolished yet the Bible states it’s not, even Paul states this.
Apparently friend you are having a hard time reading the English I’m writing. I have said Jesus came to fulfill the old covenant and that he made a new and superior covenant. You need to go to mass then to a Catholic or Orthodox Church. Every mass we have a reading of the old and new testament. Luke 10:25-28 are the two commandments Jesus gave that he says all the law hangs on. Plus since you love the old testament as I do then you will know about Malachi chapter 1:10-11. I advise reading the whole chapter but it does speak of The Lord not accepting animal sacrifice anymore that’s verse ten and in verse eleven it states The Lords Name will be great among gentile nations. In every place incense and pure offerings will be made to Him
I agree the sacrificial system was abolished since Christ was the ultimate sacrifice. What I’m say is that the Torah was giving as instruction for how we are to conduct our daily lives and actually walking out our instructions of loving God and our neighbors. Jesus himself says in the end times he will tell believers to depart from him for practicing lawlessness which means without Torah. Christ was the perfect example of how to walk out the law and we are told to be Christ like.
That’s also why Paul says “do we sin now that grace is abound, God forbid, we establish the law.” How do you establish something that’s been done away with?
The Bible also shows during the millennial reign that everyone will be honoring the Torah, sabbath, and holy feast days. So why wouldn’t every Christian be doing that now?
I’ve been to plenty of catholic mass and an Eastern Orthodox, I don’t get the Mary worship or bowing down to statues. That’s forbidden in scripture.
If I recall correctly, one of Martin Luther’s reasons was the rejection of the Israeli Jews of the apocrypha/deuteron-canonical books as scripture. They were also the only ones written in Greek vice Hebrew at the time. The African Jews did include the books in what constituted scripture– a bit of a division there, if I recall correctly.
It isn’t worship, it is as honoring her as the mother of God, kind of consistent with Mary acknowledging that she was blessed among women to be chose by God to carry her savior.
Although, I will acknowledge that some take a devotion to Mary too far, where it does border on worship. But that isn’t the catholic teaching, worship is reserved to only God.
I don’t know what you mean about bowing to statues. Certainly folks traditionally kneel to pray. Catholics believe that all members of the church living and dead, all parts of the body are one in Christ. Traditionally, we kneel to God when we pray, if we’re asking a fellow to pray with us we may kneel–but it isn’t to our fellow Christian, it is kneeling before God. The statues of saints are kind of good examples of folks who’ve lived good lives to inspire us. You can ask that person to join you in Prayer to Jesus just as you would someone on earth.
A lot of Protestants don’t view the Body as including living and dead. They don’t believe that one should/can pray for the dead, or that they can be joined in prayer by the departed in heaven. Ergo, the kneeling and statues make no sense as it appears to be worship of an individual vice prayer to Jesus.
“The Catholic Church is against Luther’s “sola scriptura” claims mainly
because scripture alone wasn’t the main way of teaching the faith in the
first 1500 years of Christianity.”
Exactly. “Sola Scriptura” was never a Biblical, and never a Christian, teaching, any more than was Luther’s giddy “Sola Fide”. When “the Reformers” broke with Catholicism’s view of scripture and salvation they broke with both Bible and Christianity.
How do you know you’re teaching the correct interpretation? So many churches teaching so many different interpretations of the same book. A lot of folks teaching the wrong interpretation, relying on a man’s opinion. The traditions of man invalidating scripture is a bad thing, right?
How do you know the right books were collected into the Bible? What authority are you relying on to have gotten it right? That the ‘Gospel of Peter’ and ‘Apocalypse of Peter’ shouldn’t have been included? That the letter of James emphasizing that faith and works are inseparable shouldn’t have been included?
The Bible itself at the end of one of the gospels says that not everything that happened was recorded.
Christ said that if you and I have a difference, we could settle the issue by going to the Church? Which Church? Wouldn’t it be one with the authority to consistently rule on doctrine to guide us to salvation?
Then there are things like the beliefs and practices of the early Christians, prior to the declaration of what constituted the canon of scripture. Confession to a priest, belief in the Real Presence in the Eucharist, infant baptism…. Hard to square folks insisting that those were wrong when the earliest Christians practiced the faith that way.
It’s one thing to have a different interpretation to a scripture but to leave out or outright change scripture is against the Bible itself.
Revelation 22:18-19King James Version (KJV)
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Proverbs 30:5-6New International Version (NIV)
5 “Every word of God is flawless;
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
6 Do not add to his words,
or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Deuteronomy 4:2King James Version (KJV)
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
2 Timothy 3:16New International Version (NIV)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
If all scripture is the divine word of God then why would I listen to a man twist the scripture and take his opinion over the Lord’s? How can a Christian use scripture to rebuke someone if they are allowed to change the word of God? The earliest Christians were also messianic Jews and most of the early European church fathers hated Jews even though Jesus was a Jew and a rabbi.
Changing scripture has nothing to do with ‘sola scriptura’.
And if your interpretation is wrong, if you’re relying on Luther’s man made tradition of individual interpretation of the Bible/scripture independent of any authority and you’re getting it wrong– that tradition of man is invalidating it even if you don’t change a word.
Interesting bit in that Martin Luther added the word ‘alone’ after saved by faith as he thought it better captured the spirit of the passage than a direct translation of the Hebrew, or the existing translations at the time. So, was he rejecting every word of God as flawless?
He certainly rejected 7 books which were accepted as constituting scripture, so if he got it wrong based on his own authority it would appear he twisted/rejected/changed quite a bit.
Note the catholic church’s doctrine hasn’t changed about homosexuality, abortion, birth control, or marriage in 2,000 yrs while many Protestant denominations have changed their stances, despite ‘sola scriptura’.
Paul urged the church to adhere to what the apostles passed on via both word of mouth letter. Which seems to be an indication he did not pass on everything by written word.
So, Luther may well have been correct about a lot of things- including what constitutes scripture. Maybe the church really did have it wrong for over a thousand years. But, sola scriptura isn’t a fix to consistent doctrine.
I never said I was a fan of Luther and considering most of the early church fathers hated Jews I have trouble believing they held them in high esteem and kept everything the way they left it. Paul himself honored the biblical feast days after being saved but most Catholics and Protestants don’t and I’m not sure why. Luther didn’t like the book of James cause it involved works along side of faith which I agree on. Why does the Catholic Church pray to Mary when she is incapable of doing anything? The Bible states Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. If the first Christians were Jews who followed Torah while believing in Christ and the Catholic Church is what’s been passed down from them than how can the two be so completely different?
Again- the belief is that all followers of Christ are one body. Why not ask Christ’s mother to join you in prayer? She helped out at the wedding at Cana. He would not have performed the miracle without her pointing out the problem with the wine running out. He’s a good Jewish boy, he’ll at least listen to his mother.
Now, if you accept the protestant position regarding prayers for the dead, and the body of the Church not including the dead than it makes no sense at all.
Why are they different? Christ said He was instituting a new Church, so it was gonna be different. The major one being he gave that Church authorities (hold bound on earth, it’s held bound in heaven; release on earth, released in heaven; whose sins you forgive are forgiven). The new church could forgive sins vice being limited to punish or conduct the sacrifices proscribed for them.
I think some folks do become too devoted to one method of prayer- the Rosary. A of meditating on various things about Christ’s life.( For example, the prayer in Gethsemane and the fact God told His own Son no but sent Him an angel to strengthen Him. Didn’t give what was wanted, He provided what was needed).
They don’t keep perspective and advocate in an almost cult-like way that borders on superstition, lose sight of the purpose of prayer. Prioritize the external performance. Couple of things from the catechism:
2562 Where does prayer come from? Whether prayer is expressed in words or gestures, it is the whole man who prays. But in naming the source of prayer, Scripture speaks sometimes of the soul or the spirit, but most often of the heart (more than a thousand times). According to Scripture, it is the heart
that prays. If our heart is far from God, the words of prayer are in vain
2111 Superstition is the deviation of religious feeling and of the practices
this feeling imposes. It can even affect the worship we offer the true God,
e.g., when one attributes an importance in some way magical to certain
practices otherwise lawful or necessary. To attribute the efficacy of prayers
or of sacramental signs to their external performance, apart from the interior
dispositions that they demand, is to fall into superstition.
I would like to add this ma and I’m sure you heard as well as I have. It’s the argument that Constantine made The Catholic/ Orthodox Church in 325Ad…What is not mentioned is that there was the Council of Neocaesarea in 314Ad and even earlier than that were the council’s of Carthage. Seems to me if you had all these Bishops coming for Council’s that would be the proof of The Church already being established. Maybe our friend needs to read on Saint Polycarp,, Clement, Ignatius.
Thank you. But it gets down, I think, to coming to grips with authority and whether Christ provided that to the orthodox church. Certainly the priests/bishops/popes have acted badly throughout the church. Being people they are sinners even if called to serve.
I have no problem with folks who come to the decision that Luther was right, and Christ did not intend such a structured organization. Or that the canon of scripture was incorrectly decided. Just wanted them to reject it based on al understanding the actual teachings. If they understand the teachings but believe a Protestant church is closer to what Christ intended, then ok. They are still my brother/sister in Christ.
Joel Osteen is a fine example of person using his pulpit for personal gain. He could have opened his church to help flood victims but has done absolutely nothing and only finally gave in now.
If the pics are true, he lives in a mansion fit for an NBA star
Yep. Making money off of weak minded people. I grew up in an Evangelical home. They are just as bad as Catholics.
They are also huge cucks for Israel.
He does, Cashflow Dollar does, Joyce Meyer does, Kenneth Copeland and Rod Parsley does. They’re all nothing but pimps in the pulpit.
Inspiring article. I’ve often wondered about the Orthodox church, and the differences between it and American protestant churches. Maybe something to study up on.
Well worth your time. Orthodoxy is purer and maintains its traditions steadfastly and has avoided temptations to modernise purely for the sake of it.
I hate the evanjellyfish churchianity (borrowed phrase) that I see in my evangelical churches.
Everyhting is run by, and geared towards women and everything masculine is shamed as ungodly. I really hate it.
Jesus was a hairy-ass, manly Jew with strong shoulders and calloused hands. He made a whip and attacked money changers in a manly, righteous fit of anger. He wasn’t the red-bearded waif we see in modern texts who’s voice barely raises above a gentle lilt.
That is why I hate the modern evangelical church; there is no place there for manly men.
I don’t see any difference in the Orthodox church then. I wish men would take some leadership initiative at all! Why do men seem so interested in church building projects and “safe” little Bible studies, instead of missions, outreach and social helps where you actually know the name of the person you’re supporting? You do see the Calvary Chapel movement as projecting a manly man thing to attract people. See, this is just a red herring. There are manly men, and there are men that aren’t so well endowed. All are welcome to follow Christ. It’s not about the outside of a person. Frankly, if you feel you have to develop “traditions” rather than relationship with God, to keep you on target, then you’re not necessarily any better than the RCC. Jesus said, “Don’t pray as the heathen do, with their vain repetitions”. Exterior dress wasn’t important. We are meant to struggle with these issues so that we can learn God’s priorities, and avoid man’s.
Lovely article, thanks for posting.
“Why did the church
suddenly disappear after the deaths of the apostles, but then resurfaced
in Northern Europe in the sixteenth century?”
One essential question that mainstream Protestantism could never successfully answer. I say this as a Buddhist, but as one who spent the first 28 years of his life in Catholicism – which shares “deep historicity” with Latin Christianity.
I have a very similar story. My wife and I were both raised in the Protestant church. I was Southern Baptist, and she was raised in the Lutheran, Episcopal, and Methodist churches. We both disdained the moves by churches we attended to become “contemporary” and we stopped attending. I am of the opinion that the church should be a rock, as God, and not change with the ebb and flow of pop culture.
I began to study the history of the church and, through that, came to Orthodoxy. My wife and I have just begun attending services with the Antiochian Church, three of the Divine Liturgy and one Orthos service.
I have not looked back in regards to Protestantism. And with a baby girl on the way I am glad we have come to The Church.
For those of you interested I would highly recommend the book Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy by Father Damick. It looks at the origins of the different beliefs of the Christian churches and also details some early heresies that have affected the modern churches.
Three years ago I was attending a Baptist church…and walked out for the very same reasons. They brought in a new hip pastor and a BS music minister with his 7-11 songs and holier than thou attitude. Won’t step foot in another Protestant service again……unless, of course, it’s my funeral!
To be fair- there are good and bad priests as well. The difference being there is a hierarchy and authority on doctrine.
Awesome. Glad you found your path. Isn’t genuine traditionalism truly sacred?
Orthodoxy is the Babylonian Mystery religion in eastern form; for the pope, they have the patriarch; for idols, they have icons. And it’s works-centric, like Popery, denying (as it’s Rome-based counterpart does) the sufficiency of Christ as the sole sacrifice for sin, denying Christ as the sole justifier of the righteous (via the imputation of His human righteouesness to the sinner), denying Christ as the sole Mediator between God and man, and denying the sole supremacy of the Word of God as ultimate authority. It also, like Romanism, denies the work of the Holy Spirit in drawing sinners to Christ and it denies the sovereignty of God in the administration of His grace.
Anyone who thinks this abomination is somehow the Lord’s religion will be sorely disappointed – and eternally ruined – come Judgment Day. Stay the hell away from Orthodoxy!!!
HoHum!
If it is Babylonian then how come Islam since its inception as been focused on destroying Catholic/Orthodox Christianity? The Ottomans sacked Constantinople first now they want Rome. And yes the Ottomans are almost fully back, the sick man of Europe, the seventh empire that came after Rome and was dealt a death blow to the head during Ww2. It’s coming back fast now and the Muslim world is looking to Turkey as it’s leader once again. Mecca and Medina is where Islam was born and is the Whore of Babylon. The Bible in Isaiah calls Arabia Babylon and calls out the one who destroys it, Elam(Iran). Most of the Muslim world now hates Arabia with a passion. Now why does Islam hate Catholic/ Orthodox Churches so much? It’s because Islam is the pinnacle of Protestantism(Protesters) to The Churchs Authority which was granted to the apostles by Jesus himself. Peter and Paul found the Roman Church and many more,Jude and Bartholomew founded the Armenian Apostolic Church,Saint Andrew founded the Church in Constantinople,Mark founded the Coptic church in Egypt,Philip founded the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. I could keep going on but I hope you get the idea. And yes all of the Churchs which are universal aka (Catholic) have always had icons, liturgy, confession,The Eucharist all of which are scriptural. Speaking of The Eucharist it is the daily sacrifice that is the bread and wine offering spoken of in Daniel that will be taken away.
The protestants from Germany also side with the Ottomans during the battle of Lepanto maybe we are seeing history repeat with Merkel and Erodogan.
Islam is a curse on continental Europe because of its ungodliness; it was ever thus.
Its chief devil is called Abbaddon or Appollyon (Revelation 9:1-11) and its agents, i.e., the Muslims, are described as voracious locusts in their fanatical aggression.
Orthodoxy and Romanism are two ostensibly warring sides of the same Babylonian coin; yes, the devil is not divided against himself, so it serves his purposes to have the east-west split in his masterpiece counterfeit Christianity. So just because they have been at odds for centuries, it does not follow that they are not quintessentially the same: Babylonian.
[Sigh.] Calumnies and lies. What drivel. I’ve had enough of this infantilism.
Get a grip, nowhere in the Bible does it say that it’s the ultimate authority
Riiiiiiiiiiight. So if it’s the Word of God (which it claims to be) and God, per se, is the Supreme Authority, what more proof do you need for the Bible to be taken as the ultimate authority?
The Bible itself:
2 Thessalonians 2:15 “So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.”
Apostles passed on the teaching both orally and in writing. Not everything taught was written down. According to the Bible. It instructs that what is taught by word of mouth was equally important to that of the written word, if we are to believe the Bible.
John 20, 30-31 “Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”
John 21, 25. “Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.”
Not everything the Apostles knew was committed to writing. If the Bible is to be believed it wasn’t possible to write everything down.
You might want to research what the catholic church actually teaches, because it certainly isn’t what you wrote here. You may also want to look at what the early church believed and practiced. Start with ‘Faith of the Early Fathers’ edited and translated by Jurgens.
From the catechism-
480. Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of His divine person; for this reason He is the one and only mediator between God and men.
15. The second part of the Catechism explains how God’s salvation, accomplished once and for all through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, is made present in the sacred actions of the Church’s liturgy especially in the seven sacraments.
65. In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by a Son. Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one perfect and unsurpassable Word. In Him He has said everything; there will be no other word than this one.
I don’t care if you reject the catholic church and decide on a different path. But it should be based on the reality of its teachings and not the fiction you have been provided.
http://ccc.usccb.org/flipbooks/catechism/index.html
As to works, works without faith is dead. (See the letter of James) Christ told us in His account of the judgment (see Matthew) we will be condemned for sins of omission– i.e. the things we didn’t do. Because if we don’t do things for our brothers on earth then we don’t love Him. Our works do not save us, we are only saved by Christ’s sacrifice, but we don’t love Him if we don’t follow His commandment to love one another. Works and faith are related, because works are a product/result of faith. Otherwise, Christ would not cite a lack of them as reason for condemnation, without them we have not obeyed the greatest commandment- to love God with all our heart, all our soul…
A good book contrasting the catholic and fundamentalist positions is Karl Keatings ‘Catholicism and Fundamentalism’. You may also be interested in ‘Surprised by Truth’, Patrick Madrid, which is a collection of accounts by various fundamentalists who joined the catholic church. You may not agree with their reasons, but they do lay out the actual teachings.
The upshot may be to reinforce your position and allow you to also counter the actual positions and teachings of the church.
I have studied Roman Catholicism for decades and it is plainly, unambiguously antithetical to the Bible.
Baptismal regeneration, transubstantiation, prayers for the dead, “saints” (which in RC parlance is a totally different thing to the biblical definition which is that all believers are automatically saints), Papal infallibility, a celibate priesthood (which Paul the Apostle described as a “doctrine of devils”), and the “holy days” which ape Paganism’s Saturnalia (aka “Christmas”) and the spring feast (aka “Easter”), Mary as “Co-Mediatrix” (despite the Bible saying Christ alone is Mediator), the Mother and child imagery (a classic motif of paganism for millennia) … All of these things have the cloven hoof on them and mark Romanism as Babylonian.
Better check your sources they’re wrong.
– Baptismal regeneration? Not sure what you mean. Biblical basis in that even Christ was baptized, washing away of original sin? A conference of bishops in ~280AD rejected delaying baptism to 8 days after birth as it was seen as so essential to salvation. Earliest Christians seem to differ with you on this.
– Prayers for the dead are biblical. Maccabes 2. Your issue is with authority in determining the canon of scripture, ergo there really is no Bible as scripture. With no authority, scripture can be whatever you wish. If you can’t trust the Church in having determined the canon, you need to go back and individually decide on all the books and writings from around ~300AD the Church rejected and decide about them yourself.
– Transubstantiation is absolutely Biblical. You reject that interpretation of John’s bread of life discourse. What’s your authority for determining which interpretation is correct. We as brothers in Christ have a dispute on this– who do we go to for decision. Christ directed going to the church. Must be an authoritative search somewhere then to go to. Again, if your guide is a tradition of man using individual interpretation and you’re wrong, your tradition is invalidating scripture. Paul warns ‘For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.’ and states one is sinning against the body if he does so. How can you eat just bread ‘unworthily’. The earliest Christians refer to the real presence in the Eucharist, even prior to the canon of scripture being declared. Why would the people taught directly by the Apostles be wrong about this? Even referring to it as ‘the medicine of immortality’? Or is your issue more along the debate of consubstantiation vice transubstantiation?
– Papal infallibility is Biblical. Peter was given the keys to the kingdom, the keys being a traditional symbol of an authority to be passed down. He was given the authority that what is held bound on earth will be held bound in heaven. Was Christ really saying He’d abide by unjust or wrong decisions? Note Christ specifically states that Peter was uniquely guided by the Holy Spirit, hence why he becomes the Rock on which to build Christ’s church.
– Celibacy isn’t a doctrine. It’s a discipline, often debated. It was believed to free men from the distraction of marriage and family so they could better devote themselves to God and their vocation. It is Biblical- ” I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord. But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried or betrothed woman is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit. But the married woman is anxious about worldly things, how to please her husband.” Note, married priests from the orthodox church who convert to RC remain priests.
– Holy days. God Himself directed the people to celebrate special occasions. You don’t like the occasions or the history in picking them. Fine. But folks specifically celebrating the birth of our redeemer are celebrating the birth of our redeemer however the date was chosen.
– Again, the church does not now and never has taught Mary as being a co-mediatrix. Christ is the sole mediator between man and God, as I pointed out from the Catechism.
– Mother and child imagery is a universal human thing. It’s also Biblical. Rachel weeping for her children. The gospels refer to Mary as God’s mother, provide written imagery of His birth, scenes from His childhood. Is that wrong as well?
Not sure where you’re getting your information on the church. Might be worth actually reading the catechism and pointing out fallacies in what the Church actually teaches.
Anyway, Peace be with you always..
This is an excellent expression of how religion turns men into pliant bums:
Now an older man, in what years I have remaining, I have resolved to live a pious life and serve the lord. Jobs, materialism, or the endless pursuit of pleasure pale when compared to final judgement before God and eternity. “For what shall it profit a man if he gains the world, and loses his own soul?” (Mark 8:36).
I am with you. Have been attending 9 years, finally told priest I wanted to join. He gave me a couple of books to read, asks me to attend variety of services. I gennerally only attend Saturday night vespers, he let me know that was not really good enough. Need to go to divine liturgy. I respect the church more, but it is still a pain. I will go through as I am sick of flaky, PC protestantism. Orthodox do not like change, neither do I.
I think the main difference between the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church is that the former is based on authority while the latter is based on authoritarianism. In the Catholic Church, the laity are powerless to do anything if the clergy are obviously behaving badly. In the Orthodox Church, on the other hand, the laity have ways to punish the clergy if required. Also, the Orthodox Church does not have one human being “at the top of everything” unlike the Catholic Church.
The Protestant Reformation was an understandable rebellion against the authoritarianism of the Catholic Church. However, Protestants went too far in the other direction and got rid of authority altogether. As a result, Protestantism became a complete joke.
Agreed; Anglicanism and Lutheranism had the opportunity to become the Western equivalent of Othodoxy (esp Anglicanism) but they blew it.
Soooo…………….Kratom?
Something that Westerners can learn about Orthodox countries as a civilization is that they, like Muslim and Chinese countries, have strong survival-values (in contrast with Western self-expression values), as seen in the Inglehart–Welzel cultural map of the world (image below). Orthodox countries have a much higher level of cultural collectivism, nepotism, as well as fertility and peasantry prior to Communism, – in contrast with countries to the West of the Hajnal line (which generally give more importance to individual merit, the nuclear (rather than extended) family, more K-selected behaviour, etc.). Also, many Eastern Orthodox countries, having been under atheistic Communist rule, are much more secular in their values than either South American Catholics, and than one of the smaller Eastern Christian populations (that live in highly religious Muslim countries) – the Oriental Orthodox. National and religious identity are strongly related, the latter more dependent on the former than vice-versa.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3419d7f4ccfe3087cb731dc8c25193d378a9d0a610652c9ddee50a4d504eaf43.png
Articles like these get all the atheists out of the wood works, with their knickers in a knot.
Which is funny because I just read the headline of a recent article “You become what you fight” which describe almost every atheist I’ve met.
Do I believe in God, no. Do I think believing in God is a waste no. Getting where I am wasn’t easy, to be honest I didn’t set off with an objective, I just ended up here, being who I am. But I’m a single individual, a community needs an ideology that will propel it’s civilization. Religion plays that role when the people are in charge of the religion, If the religion is in charge of the people you end up with Islam, aside from war mongering, they have advanced very little in the last 500+ years. Catholicism which has betrayed the people by not standing up for them.
I’ve studied many aspects of religions and philosophies.
I was into Buddhism, as good and as effective as their philosophy is, I questioned whether people who’s main objective is and the afterlife (if they reincarnate), and to avoid living life by becoming recluses, should be teaching paths to a righteous life. Also I question any religion who’s originate is being the anti-thesis of another religion, that right the obscures it’s true objective.
Theravada, Mahayana and Vajrayana are the main doctrines. Theravada makes the most sense and is the least religion-eque. I got off the Buddhist train after reading the Tao. By far that little book will blow all the Buddhist writing away.
The Russian Orthodox Church defended the Soviet Union as a preserver of Christian morals, while the Greek Orthodox Church is falling apart just as the government there is.
At this rate, even the weakened Catholic Church still looks more uncompromised and dignified than the EO Churches.
not to sound bigoted, (cos in this case i’m really not one), but if you want to truly experience that old, ascetic feel of Christianity – Orthodox is the way to go
You see these little skinny evangelical gringos all over Central America trying to convert the locals like a bunch of jehova witnesses. They walk the cities and rural areas asking people if they wish to serve god “properly” as if the native catholic religion was a load of shit. These guys have absolutely no intellectual baggage apart from the horseshit which these fake charlatan pastors pump into their empty heads. Alot of the locals actually join thinking this will help them enter the US if they bevome part of the missions. One of these little fucks tried to convert me thinking i was a local (i’m mixed btw), i almost threw him off the promenade on the rocks below. These people are parasites, they stay among themselves, only mingle to preach and don’t even contribute to the local economies. I mean they never go out and drink, they shop at the wal marts and eat in their houses among each other. They’re lucky the locals are respectful people and the local gangs don’t touch them because its bad for business.
Picture of Joel Osteen, was thinking of him and realizing why many Evangelicals often rub me the wrong way. Osteen is worth millions, he owns a giant property and Houston, and he initially made the excuse that the flood closed his church and could not accept people from flooded areas. When word of this became public he finally budged and let in people into his building to stay temporarily. Since he is supposed to a be man of the the good Book, I thought he would do this out of the charity of his own heart, not from the shame of being exposed in public and having to save face. Oh well I guess no one is perfect and finally made the right decision.
Actually, there is a lot of incest and child porn stuff amongst the Catholic basher churches that don’t get reported, because they are largely insignificant to our demonic enemy. His legions in “science”, academia, and the media have it out for The Church because of what it is; not what it appears to be. As many times in the past, it will be righted again and it won’t be pretty, but it is the unspotted bride of Christ and it’s doctrines, formally defined, despite the weaknesses of the old, white men, have not changed because of that. Many will fall off the Barque of Peter, The Church. The other churches have either fallen apart or given into pleasing modern senses and sensibilities in a formal way, as the author said. Sometimes, they will corrupt an evangelical televangelist and get it outed by The press, but neither it nor this next Faith tradition is much a stumbling block for Satan. The Orthodox would have been infiltrated, as well, had they made themselves a threat. Well, I guess, in Russia, they had during the Soviet reign. Maybe the secular leaders the Orthodox churches were tied to at that time more or less did so. That was then. We don’t see the Orthodox much at abortion places or in processions or taking a major stand on the major moral issues. I give the Evangelicals credit for that and they will probably be next to be tempted or have a major scandal exposed, if they help the secularists bring us down to the ground in influence in the world. the Orthodox are kind of off the radar. the Orthodox are kind of free from being bothered by Masonic infiltrators, though, I admit, so are Eastern-rite Catholics
It’s fine to this introvert if they have some introverted culture thing, and they have a beautiful thing, though so do the equally beautiful-seeming not-Christ-founded Sedevacantists, but let’s not pretend either is the Faith of the Apostles, because it has less scandals or limpwristed silliness going on at the time. The eastern churches, Catholic or otherwise, just not bothering Satan all that much.
I could be wrong. The Eastern churches did suffer by Islamicists, Soviets and back to Islamicists, but little or no infiltration of the ranks (which still has never redefined Catholic doctrine) or secular religious do-gooders.
Where did my post go? There are lots of anti-Catholic rubbish on here, but I state my disagreements with all of you and it’s gone. Well, continue feeling good about yourselves. Satan only infiltrates a church He fears most. Bells and incense are great for the soul, as is faith in Jesus as necessary for salvation, but who started your churches (that includes who made themselves a dovinely-appointed authority on what God thinks)? Why is contraception allowed in all other churches, when all the churches used to see it as a grave moral evil? The Catholics haven’t changed on that or other doctrines others have changed for their convenience, which is why I chose it, despite its apparent ugliness these days. Jesus looked like a scandal, too, all bloodied up and not looking too divine. Fine. Mock.
Don’t help carry our cross, which would be carrying his, as you’ll be next, if your church even come close to being anywhere like the ontology of The Bride of Christ in purity of practice.
Thanks be to God.
1) a get out of hell free card is exactly what it is. It’s called the Lamb’s book of life. For the spirit; the body on earth is still to walk away from sin. Any transgressions of sin committed on earth will be punished on earth. But if one is *true* believer they are still saved.
2) mega “churches” are addressed exactly the same way the RCC is addressed in the Bible – as Babylon (get out!). Ergo – not representative of biblical evangelism.
3) if pastors preach sj or any heretical teachings, it is not a problem of scripture or evangelism, it is a problem of the pastor.
Dude..every religion on Earth is corrupted. Some more than others and some are complete bullshit. I advise you to use your brain instead of blindly following a religion, because it’s part of your culture or heritage.
I have more knowledge about this and talked to people who know more about this thing called ‘life’. Basically, people have free will and you can do whatever you want. The Earth was originally created for souls who wanted to have a unique learning experience, because Earth is the only physical plane in the universe. All other planes of existence are ether and non-physical.
But somewhere in history people forgot their true purpose of being on Earth and started to corrupt true knowledge or inventing complete new religions. When more souls chose to incarnate on Earth, people started to fight about land and resources. To control people they told them they would go to Hell if they didn’t live by the rules. Yes, there does exist a Hell where demons live, but they are different entities and were never human, so our souls don’t go there.
There only exists something that is called ‘negative karma’. If you do negative things you build up negative karma. The law of the universe is balance, so you always have to pay for your karmic debts. It can be in this life or a future life, but you always have to restore your balance.
From what I know people in the past had build up HUGE negative karma, so it could be that some higher entity chose to incarnate on Earth (like Jesus) and wanted to bring people on the right path, so that they could fix their negative karma. I don’t think he could die for our sins/negative karma, because you have to fix it yourself.
The author gives himself in the text the reason he left the true faith: love for mysticism and empty liturgy.
He seeks emotions, feelings and atmosphere, not TRUTH.
Real men look for truth no matter what. Truth sometimes hurts, sometimes is uncomfortable, but it is worth pursuing.
The Orthodox Church is a caricature of real Christianity, full of superstitions, occultism and (ouch!) total subordination to Fathers (gurus).
Well done mate, evangelicals are fake assholes.
Many protestant/evangelical churches shill for Israel. Pentecostal and Southern Baptists being some of the most egregious of offenders.
How do you become a “metallurgist”? I want to learn a craft that I could turn into a business but it’s hard to find mentors these days.