331 thoughts on “A Man’s Guide To Women Based Purely On Looks”

1. I’d just like to comment on makeup here, as it seems to be the right place. I see many women each day using too much of it, or being completely oblivious to how it should be applied. This way they make themselves actually look worse than they are.
   So my advice here is to either use little makeup so that you don’t fuck it up completely and actually enhance your appearance, or learn how to apply it properly. I’m sure there are thousands of tutorials on the internet about this.

   1. Good point Charles, and this may be worthy of clarification in the article. By “use makeup” I meant as necessary. There are few things worse than a clown-faced girl.

   2. Overcompensation for lack of something perhaps? Or maybe due to lack of craftsmanship. Justifies that last sentence in the article about the Ukrainian girl’s remark.

   3. Some women definitely need to learn the concept of “less is more”.

   4. So many women actually look like clowns, it’s unbelievable

2. I would consider 7.5+ to be one standard deviation above the mean and meet the appearance requirements for an LTR. Of those generously 10% are actually LTR material. This just reinforces the idea notion that 90+% of Americsn women aren’t LTR material. Good luck unicorn hunting gentlemen.

3. I have no problem with dating 6’s and 7’ss.It seems the relationship always starts out perfect and then they let the phisical appearance go.Happens every god damned time.I move on and have not with out fail found a woman yet that can keep herself up.I only have 3 rules as far as appearance:Long hair-Stay fit,slim and no smoking.I’m not hard to please but apparently I must be.I’ve even told one of my exes regaurdless of you’re so called intangibles with out looks the rest doesn’t matter and it still won’t sink in that childish little female brain.You tell them strait away to there face and they just don’t get it.I only date younger women and most of them I dated in there early 20s and they already have hit the wall before 30 lmao.I’ve noticed as of late the default improvement is a boob job to match there fat ass of late.

   1. With all the fit shaming and fat acceptance in the country, it’s no wonder they feel entitled to blow up.

   2. A female body takes a lot to keep together.
      They are biologically designed to attract a man and then become pregnant.
      You can’t get around that.

      1. 10 minutes of resistance training per week.
         A couple hours of walking.
         Not living on chips and cakes and thinking having a single spinach leaf for lunch balances it out.
         It actually takes remarkably little to maintain a female body in an
         attractive and healthy state. That’s what makes the lack of doing it all
         the more distressing.
         It shows they really just don’t give even half a shit.

         1. It’s much easier to get/maintain a good female physique than a male physique. Women like men who are “built” and “thin”. That’s shockingly hard for most men to do. You can be strong as an ox, but you’re going to be flabby around the middle. Or you can a size 30, but have arms the same size as your wrist. Getting the “perfect” male physique takes hours in the gym per week, hours of cardio per week, an incredibly strict diet, and for 90% of men, steroids.
            The perfect female physique requires an hour of cardio every other day and not eating like a fucking pig. That’s a whole different level of difficulty.

         2. That’s why I have no sympathy for a the feminist fat acceptance rhetoric. It only takes a woman 20 minutes of a cardio per day in a spin class to not be obese. Requires much greater effort for men to get built out. First men must do the 20 minutes of cardio to burn the fat layer, then there’s 1.5 hours of weight training.

         3. Steve Reeves had a 29″ waist when he won Mr. America.
            When he won Mr. Universe at the hight of his development he had added an inch.
            Ignore modern body builders. They are caricatures.
            For that matter, Sandow is a better model than Reeves.

         4. It takes controlled calorie consumption to prevent obesity. Normal working out isn’t going to offset the 5000 calories Sally Suckalot consumes.

         5. Lack of willpower…
            Most women find eating healthy food and working out regularly impossible, they do it for a month or two before giving up.
            I spend at least 5 hours lifting every week despite a busy schedule and I don’t eat crap, so doing 1/10 of my effort should be a breeze.
            It may work at 20yo, but you can’t be both beautiful and lazy when you’re 28.

         6. Overtaxed – it’s not that hard to get a good male physique. It doesn’t take any cardio (other than sex and the occasional hike) and less than two hours of gym time per week total. Diet doesn’t have to be that strict either in terms of calories or alcohol if you’re doing everything else right. Here’s the proof: http://themanthemyth.com/what-now/
            No drugs, minimal supplements but no protein, pre-workouts, fat burners, or creatine. 1-2 drinks a night most nights of the week. I totally agree that it doesn’t take a lot for a girl to be bangable in terms of fitness though.

         7. He was over 6′ so a 29″ waist would be freaky looking on a normal grown
            man.At 6’1″ a slim man would have a 34-36″ waist. Of course the waist
            measurement is in an area where no bone impedes it and above the pelvic
            bone about 2″ above navel. At 29″ he would never be able to buy trousers
            and would actually have to buy a 36″ waist (his hips were 38″) and then
            have the waist taken in.
            The taller you are the larger your shoulder
            span. If you compared two men of normal weight and build the guy at
            6’2″ would be broader than the one at 5’8″. You’ll notice that suit
            sizes for shorts(under 5’8″) usually end at about 42 while Longs begin at about 42

         8. Some females are simply genetically heavy and there’s not much they can do about it.You may be able to do something if she’s just a glutton for food but that’s rarely the case and some of these fat girls don’t eat any more than the slim girls. You find this mainly in the lower classes. It’s all genetic like the distribution of fat on a female’s body and her shape. Do you really believe that a Dunham who has that Humpty Dumpty shaped body is going to have a normally shaped body regardless of diet or exercise.Even after losing weight by force she may lose it from all of the wrong places and her butt may just look even bigger and of a bad proportion. No amount of exercise can change these genetic traits.You may see these before and after pics advertising some diet but this is rare and even here you’d have to worry if the female was going to quickly blow up again.Stay away from any female who has ever been overweight unless you’re a chubby chaser because people who lose weight on diets regain all of it in 2 years in 98% of the cases.You like a slim girl then make sure that’s her genetics and not that she starved and exercised for 8 hrs a day just to trap a man.

         9. But what if she’s fat and only consumes 2k a day? Not much leeway there to cut down.The neurotic 5k a day may actually be better and at a normal 2k a day be a normal weight.

         10. No one ever worked out in the past so this current trend is bullshit.If you have to work out and eat special diets then you’ll quickly go to pot if you stop.Females shouldn’t be muscular anyway. Old females like Madonna have to exercise hours a day and try to build unnatural muscles just to keep their skin from drooping while a 20yo is just naturally firm with no exercise.

         11. 2000 calories a day is excessive for any normal activity female of reasonable size.

         12. Nope. In the past an average man ate 3500k if he was more active and perhaps 3k if not. 2k is not a lot of calories for an average sized female who just does normal activity. Every female I know is slim and eats that much and they don’t do a lot of exercise. How your body handles fat is all genetic and even if you can starve yourself and become slimmer it never lasts.If you’re 500lbs you may get down to 200lbs but that’s mostly fluid and 200 ain’t normal for a female. Genetics and bad breeding is why the lower classes are much fatter and it has nothing to do with what you eat, just calories and how the body handles them. People on here don’t like to hear this or accept this because this is one of those ‘self improvement’ blogs where the proles like to delude themselves that they can change and improve. It will never happen and if it does then you were just genetically programmed to be something by a certain age and you have no control over it. Don’t fool yourself into believing it has something to do with willpower because it’s actually the other way around.

         13. 2000 is on the higher end and for most females. Also, Americans are appallingly bad at assessing calorific intake.
             http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/average-calorie-intake-human-per-day-versus-recommendation-1867.html
             Of course genetics plays a role, but you couldn’t be more wrong on the role environments play on obesity. And all evidence refutes your position.
             http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-causes/genes-and-obesity/
             “Don’t fool yourself into believing it has something to do with willpower because it’s actually the other way around.”
             That’s a disturbingly weak mindset. I hope you don’t apply it to all avenues of life.

         14. People worked out in the past, they just used different methods than what’s in modern gyms, do old-school calisthenics if you prefer.
             You don’t have to eat special diets, just eat healthy, like what was normal before all our food became heavily processed. Also, you can take two weeks off working out, you won’t lose your looks right away, but working out isn’t something you should stop indefinitely, don’t be lazy.
             Women won’t become too muscular by working out, they don’t have enough testosterone to do so, those who do take drugs.
             As for Madonna, I don’t get your point, of course she can’t be as firm as a 20yo, it’s just how age works.
             You’re either trolling or looking for excuses.

      2. Yeah, but they aren’t biologically designed to eat themselves to death which is what the obese are doing. Without doing any physical fitness, a person can stay at a healthy weight merely by consuming an appropriate amount of calories. Why can’t Americunts do this?

         1. Because that requires impulse control, and feminism is about eliminating all forms of female impulse control?

         2. I’m of the opinion that feminists are actually worse in Western/Northern Europe and Australia than here. They still don’t have our obesity rates (in fact Northern Euros are very fit). I think it has to do with the American mindset of consuming = utility.

         3. The more liberty-based, less order-based the traditional culture happens to be, the less pressure exists to curb selfishness, one expression of which is laziness.
            That’s why feminism is the worst in America and the rest of the Anglo-Saxon world. As the most individualistic of societies, we lack the pressure of a deeply conformist, well-ordered traditional culture to check our naturally inclined selfish behavior. Not to say we had NO culture check back in the day, only less than other societies. There was an upside to this. It makes for a dynamic society, that allows for invention and novelty, commensurate with a higher level of individual liberty. Also, we tend not to go in for things like communism and national socialism, etc. The downside of course is that we will tend to be more selfish, and therefore more lazy, and more violent (individually) than people from other cultures, when the few restraints that do exist (religious, cultural, social and legal) are removed. Faith in particular, and the focus of Protestant Christianity on self-restraint, was vital in this regard, within the Anglo-Saxon world.
            Therefore, give people the ability to consume without limit (to be selfish) without any check, and you get, what we’ve got. Lazy, fat people.

         4. Very well reasoned argument. Gonna need time to internalize it but I appreciate the feedback.

         5. I wouldn’t agree that Anglo-Saxon culture is a joke. Try to look at it this way. A conservative looks at the world, and unlike the Left, does not see tabula rasa (blank slate). Instead, he sees inequality and a pervasive selfishness, inherently fixed in all people, everywhere, in all times. As a consequence, he doesn’t expect that perfection, or anything approaching it may be achieved; something along the lines of Kant’s (and I hate to reference Kant) “from the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing built.” What’s more, he understands that if any one group of people is to develop a civilization, where we live and act with care and concern for those beyond ourselves, we must have restraint imposed upon the selfishness of human nature. That means limitations, obligations and consequences. In other words, we need “order.”
            Those restraints used to achieve order, usually take one of four or so forms (law, culture, social institutions & religion). Over the years, different societies have learned to use different combinations of these restraints, in different ways to achieve order in society.
            But where greater levels of order are achieved, something else suffers: liberty. Liberty can be a very beneficial thing, both to the individual and society. I can bring out the best in humanity, in all fields of endeavor. Note: it was in the Anglo-Saxon counties that the Industrial Revolution first began, and achieved its greatest heights. Still today, it’s the USA that leads the world in scientific research and technological development. That could not have occurred (and doesn’t) in a society where the individual is not allowed to be different, take risks and to pursue some level of self-interest. The more free a society is, the greater chance the individual person can become whatever he/she wants to become, without being inordinately hindered by the group-think of a more order driven culture/legal system, etc. A strong sense of liberty, also tends to temper the mob mentality required of utopian movements. As I had mentioned, the Anglo-Saxon countries didn’t fall prey to the mass radical movements of the 20th century in the same way other, more traditionally order driven societies did.
            In a society where the balance is shifted more towards liberty, than order, the benefits may be greater but risk of degeneration is also greater. It also means that those pillars of order which a more liberty driven society retains, become more pivotal to retaining balance. When they go, they make a louder crash, than when their equivalents go in more order based societies.
            For instance, faith played a larger, more functional role in maintaining order in England, than it did in Germany. Both countries were, not too long ago deeply religious; both Protestant Christian. Now, both countries are pretty much irreligious at this point, but notice how England pervades a greater degree of degeneration and social breakdown than Germany. On a Saturday night, a city in Germany won’t witness the same level of public drunkenness that a city in England will. In England, faith was more important in restraining the ancestors of people who are now passed out in their own vomit on the street.
            So it’s not a question of one culture necessarily being worse than another. Each takes a common base component (men) and deals with it as it will. Each has advantages and disadvantages; each disposed to its own great heights and depraved lows.
            The focus should be on understanding what made that society possible, and supporting those things which made it work, or at least understanding the real tradeoff that must be made when restraints are removed.

         6. I posted something like this a while ago on here and got heavily criticised for it.
            Anglo Saxon ‘culture’ really is a huge joke.

         7. “When bad economic times hit England & the US, the society suffered
            but didn’t collapse; when they hit Germany and Russia……”
            England and the US have never suffered the way the Russia and Germany did after losing WWI. The US hasn’t been invaded since the war of 1812, and England hasn’t been invaded for centuries. Just look at what losing a minor conflict like Vietnam on the other side of the world did to the US. Now, imagine more killed/crippled than the Civil War, loss of 1/10 or more of its territory (entire states gone), economic collapse and end of the Constitution, crippling treaties meant to prevent you from ever rising again, etc, etc.

         8. “As I had mentioned, the Anglo-Saxon countries didn’t fall prey to the
            mass radical movements of the 20th century in the same way other, more
            traditionally order driven societies did.”
            There is truth to that, but i think there is more to it. The Anglosphere is less taken in by abstract ideas–i.e they are defined more by action than thought—in a way that appears more anti-intellectual than the rest of the West. There is a general suspicion of intellectual authority.
            I find it curious that you reference Kant. Surely Hobbes would be a more appropriate reference point? The Anglosphere seems more influenced by the ideas of Hobbes. I know you weren’t suggesting that Kant was the primary influence, but in regards to human nature and man’s limited potential for altruism etc, I think Hobbes is the primary influence

         9. We were more honestly individualistic AND free fifty years ago. Why not then, what we have now?

         10. The final withdraw of religious belief and faith-influenced culture of restraint that typified our culture until the 20th century. Faith and culture provided a structure of restraint, in which man had freedom, because he knew it had limits. As Burke had it, “ordered liberty,” not just liberty. We forgot about the order bit and that which upheld it.

         11. I think it would be fair to say that it has a distrust of authority in general, but particularly that of authority without defined limitations, which an intellectual authority, by its very nature, must be largely without. The appearance of definition by action, may be more a product of the flexibility afforded the individual in a society unencumbered by the shifting postulations of his betters. At any rate, the intellectual promiscuity of the continent is something no Englishmen has ever envied.
             As for my Kantian inclusion, I think you had it about right; reference rather than reference point. It is also true that in the Anglosphere, Hobbes is somewhat under-emphasized; Locke somewhat over-emphasized.

         12. I think the distinction is fair enough, the difficulties were more severe in Germany and Russia. Though it should be remembered that neither Germany, nor Russia were invaded in the Great War. And both societies had suffered greater (proportional) losses in previous conflicts. The point about that is, from my standpoint, that previous conflicts had not managed to overthrow the existing social/cultural/religious structure, but when they did, the result was quick radicalization. The Anglosphere’s institutions have been more slowly overthrown, and the result has been a slow personal degeneration, rather than complete societal upheaval. Perhaps you could say that therefore it’s all a matter of the immediacy and severity of the shock which determines that degree of radicalization, but like I said, both of those countries had suffered in the past without similar results of that magnitude.
             My contention is that societies which rely on more top-down, order based control (see also, China), when they degenerate, they do so in a collectivist manner. When their counterparts in more liberty based societies loose social structures, degeneracy is more contained within the self. The degenerate in the Anglosphere, becomes an isolated degenerate; while the degenerate on the Continent, joins other degenerates in collective radical madness. The habits of the relinquished culture, linger in both societies. Same human wickedness, different expression.
             Wouldn’t the appropriate cross-reference for Vietnam, be the protracted wars of the French in Algeria and the Soviets in Afghanistan? Did they not have similar consequences in both countries, as in the US?

   3. When the physical appearances goes, so do you.

   4. Just as the last sentence in the article says, “There is no such thing as an ugly girl, just a lazy one.”
      They make themselves look great to bait you into their trap (commitment/marriage). Then they get lazy and let themselves go. No need to work at because they’ve got you snagged in their web.

   5. For some reason I associate a woman’s smoking habit with sluttiness.

      1. How else do you allow for an opportunity to be isolated at the bar? Always be closed on…

      2. “For some reason I associate a woman’s smoking habit with sluttiness.”
         So do I, especially if it’s reefer and she’s generous in offering to share it with you in that dark corner over there.

4. Take no prisoners funny & informative article. I like the layout. Appeals to my visual male mind, hehe.
   Glad the (1-10) scale got a pretty detailed breakdown. Helps account for any bias score weightage applied due to male thirst or drunkenness.
   This is the type of content that needs Dead Sea scroll level of importance preservation for future generations.

5. Good article. The problem, of course, is that there are so many women in the 1-5 category (because they are FAT) as compared to the 6-10. For fun , when you’re out today, just do a quick count of how many women you see that are fuckable (6-10) as compared to those who are not. In my normal day, I see perhaps 1 fuckable for every 9 non-fuckable. Now, granted, some of the 9 in the latter category are there because of nature (terrible genetics or, more often, just too old to pass the boner test), but, even if you narrow it down and only count women 18-40, you’re still going to find that there are FAR MORE 1-5’s than 6-10’s.
   It, of course, did not used to be this way. The obesity situation in 1st world countries has dramatically increased the scarcity of 6-10’s, so much so that a 6 today probably gets more attention from men than a 10 did 50 years ago.
   Women have, in effect, been GTOW (without any idea of what it means) for a long time now; allowing yourself to get fat is effectively saying “I don’t want a man”. Given that something like 60-70% of women fall into that category, you see why things like game are so necessary today; there just aren’t enough women out there that can pass the boner test. Shit, there’s not enough that can pass the boner test with a 12 pack and 25mgs of Cialis onboard!
   And, of course, those who can pass the boner test know that they are a very rare/expensive commodity and, as such, most of them are total narcissists and having a blast riding the carousel. Little do they realize that the wall takes no prisoners, someday, even if they are thin, they too will no longer pass the boner test.

   1. Half of american women are obese. I know some men who say that might be ok if its 2am and the bar is closing and they give good head. But I don’t see the point. This gives the other 50% who aren’t struggling with weight issues excessive attention and inflates their own sense of social market value.

   2. The modern dating market is ruthless, and very real. Men should either grab their balls and improve their chances, or leave it altogether.

   3. Those fatties aren’t saying I don’t want a man , mostly they already got a chump and then let themselves go, they won’t be hitting the treadmill till the break up!

6. So where are some examples of a HB10’s face? The body preferences might differ but I can’t seem to picture a true HB10 face.

   1. By actual measurement:
      http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/EVTPOD/MBDAPFO-EC009.jpg

      1. No such thing as a 10, but a face like that(adjusted for ethnic preference) is the closest you’re going to get to one(hard 9 facially).

7. I think 10’s are more of a myth in terms of natural beauty and more so are subjective depending on the individuals preference for what they find attractive. That being said there are universal characteristics that have been scientifically proven that make a certain individual attractive or not for example symmetry in a face is one of them.
   For LTR or marriage I would go for a girl whose between a 7 – 8. Reason I say this is because 8, 9, 10’s are high value targets and considering the nature of the hypergamous woman the chances of her being loyal are slim to none, especially if she’s self-aware that she’s very attractive and she can drop you whenever she wants. Although that seems to be the odds for most women these days 🙁 , good article none the less.

   1. “8, 9, 10’s are high value targets and considering the nature of the hypergamous woman the chances of her being loyal are slim to none, especially if she’s self-aware that she’s very attractive and she can drop you whenever she wants”
      That’s consistent with what I’ve observed. Only 8+s that I ever see as LTR material are from religious families where she has to date someone of the same background. Almost any normal American girl with options is exercising them in her youth. Meaning she’ll do that later on in life as well.

   2. IMO the 10 is mythical. All women have flaws, even super models.

   3. I read somewhere that a 10 is a 9 that fits your favorite “type” of girl, so its subjective. If you like blondes with a tight body, then the 9 over there will be a 10 to you. Your friends might think shes just a 9.

      1. Heh, I think my comment above, is where you read it.

         1. Nah, get over yourself…..
            http://www.returnofkings.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/pictorialscale.jpg

         2. Chill the snark. I was yanking your chain dude, basically I said the same thing above a few hours ago.

         3. Are all of those real photographs? I’ll be having nightmares tonight.

   4. There is no such thing as a 10. It is a theoretical limit. The asymptote never quite reaches 10 on the y-axis (manscale units)… even if your x-value (attractiveness units) continues ad infinitum, the function can never quite reach it.
      If you ever accidentally meet a 10, try to escape the event horizon before it is too late.

8. Great article. I have the same opinion on almost every point, especially what level of girl is best suited for what type of relationship. What the article didn’t touch on, was the importance of what the girl herself thinks she is on the 1-10 scale. It can be problematic if a 7.5 thinks she’s an 8.5, because she will behave like she’s God’s gift to man. Personally, if a girl thinks she’s significantly hotter than she is, I don’t bother with her.
   As someone who’s new to game, I haven’t banged anything above an 8, which I think is pretty good considering I started taking game seriously last summer. I’m 22, I go to a small post-graduate institution (outside the US) so my demographic has a lot of girls in the 6-8 category. I figure I’ll hunt here (minding not to get too bad a reputation) while looking out for the elusive 9. I figure that as my SMV grows I’ll get better.

   1. It can be problematic if a 7.5 thinks she’s an 8.5, because she will behave like she’s God’s gift to man.

      I have noticed this from golddiggers who hang out at pricey bars. They get used to dating wealthy middle-aged men who basically pay them for sex. Often times they are 6s or 7s with some “work” done, a ton of make-up and sexy clothes. Older men will forgive the vulgarity of their looks to get some young pussy. And so this girl will look down her nose at you, when you approach.

      1. Exactly, a girl will usually measure her attractiveness by the quality of men she attracts. Girls dont know that guys, even alphas, will fuck anything if shes not fat or hideous.
         So a 6 that has fucked several alphas thinks she’s an 8 and will try so hard to behave like one. The authors right about 6’s fooling you into a relationship too because men are also attracted to confidence.

9. I have a friend who deals exclusively with 4s and below. All he cares about is a wet hole.

   1. He has a strong stomach.

      1. He does. He is married and is wife is quite cute so I guess he has his reasons.

         1. I assume he puts out zero effort to smash those 4s. Personally, the effort I’ll put out to smash is directly proportional to her place on the 1-10 scale.

         2. Actually, I have been out with him when he has gone through the whole bar and finally settled on the 4s. I don’t think he puts any effort into the 4s as such but more of the case that he wants to get laid and that’s all that’s available.

         3. He does. He is married and is wife is quite cute so I guess he has his reasons.
            Frigid wife. Guaranteed.

         4. Yep.
            No matter her looks being, say, >7, if a woman puts out easily, she falls, arse down, to step 6 or even 5.
            For me personality is as attractive as looks, despite the obvious fact that it takes more time to appreciate the former. Some men are prouder than others, however a woman’s looks alone won’t compensate for slights on the character department.
            That said, sometimes when I hit the nightclubs, it’s noticeable that a portion of the visually attractive women (around the 8 spot) usually with the boyfriend in tow, exhibit a harsh, aggressive personality.. maybe that’s just apparent in such places, or perhaps a question of “compatibility” – in which case, the only way he can have sex with her is by wearing the strap-on.

         5. I really don’t care much about personality, as long as she’s not sadistic or disrespectful to me, or something along that line. I’m not looking for a wife.

   2. Two pieces of raw liver and a hole in the mattress.

      1. Or a freshly defrosted chicken.

   3. I have a buddy who does that as well. He’s from Puerto Rico, is married, and fucks around with any and every woman who will talk to him. To give him credit, he is consistent and fearless in his own right, and doesn’t give two shits what others say. This has lead to, oddly, him actually getting a hot girl once in a while. And to him, big deal, she’s just a hole…just like that 3 he had last night. Weird guy.

      1. I actually think guys like that are somewhat sociopathic. They will screw you as quickly as they screw a woman.

         1. Actually he seems like a really nice guy, at least to me and other men. Not fake nice, but the kind of guy who buys you a beer, or vice versa, and you shoot the shit about the best type of wood to build a chair out of, or whatever.

         2. Fair enough. I am thinking of a guy who seemed cool and generous but as soon as my back was turned would try to talk to the girl I had just gotten a number from. This after I had paid to get him in the club and have him bus fare to get home. What a bitch!!!

         3. With friends like that, what do enemies have any use for ?

10. The elusive unicorn – the 8-9 girl who thinks she’s a 7 (and who also isn’t a single mom or has extreme emotional baggage).

    1. a single mom does not have to rule them out completely..there are some advantages to it

       1. Raising another man’s child, even temporarily in a LTR or an extended STR, is an awful proposition, both for you AND the child. No good comes of it.

          1. Ghost, from your experience, when would you wager is too late for a man to start a family? Or perhaps better phrased… what do you think is the age sweet spot?
             I’m 28, educated (just finishing my masters right now), and though I have zero debt, it might take me a couple years to get career-momentum and money to my liking.
             We’ve all waxed-poetic-on-and-on about the pitfalls of marriage… and I’m not sure I would marry in the West, and especially not with a mangia-cake western girl… BUT… regardless… what do you think is optimal marrying age for a man assuming he keeps himself healthy and doesn’t waste his years beforehand?

          2. I’m not sure there’s an age, so much as how squared away a man’s situation is.
             Used to be, and I even saw just a bit of this when I was young, that a guy would establish his career and have a bit saved up, along with a plan for moving forward before entertaining even semi-serious dating. A friend of mine in the Army saved for 4 years straight from every paycheque, had a good 30,000 bucks (this was mid 1980’s) when he left the service, and was out to pursue his “real” career. He would not date women during that time (he would do one night stands, but not date), saying “where you see a pretty woman, I see an expense that I don’t want to take at this point in my life”. Also knew a mechanical engineer who held the same view, ended up saving up enough to basically buy a house cash, and did. Once that happened *then* he started actually dating.
             Really that’s about the high and low of it. When I started wife hunting I was out of the military, I had a steady job with good pay and benefits and retirement savings already being put aside, and was gearing up to go to college (which I paid for out of pocket, being thrifty and not wanting debt). At that time I was 22-23.

          3. No no no.
             See it as a test and an opportunity to see the future.
             1. She can have a child.
             2. She raised her child well.
             3. She can have your children.

          4. If you’re seeing a woman who has a child, and doesn’t have the father around, then she has not, by definition, raised her child well. Further, she has proven that she will abandon a father and leave his progeny in the worst possible place for a child to be raise; by a single parent.
             Date who you wish, I find the entire notion of dating a single mother rather repellent however.

          5. How do you know that the father did not die or it was the father who was in the wrong and not the mother? Just because a mother is a single mother it does not necessarily follow she has been a bad parent.

          6. Clark: Wait! It will get better; you are just starting.
             Do you have goals?
             If not – find some.
             Example: If you have a goal to work hard and retire by age 42, then 42 would be the sweet spot to find a girl ~22, live with her for a 3+ years, have a kid with her and THEN if everything is ok and she still looks as hot (or better) than the day you met her, marry her.
             First your goals – the women will follow.
             For women the order is reversed. Family first, kids (plural) young – then you can find yourself some other goals once you are past menopause and bored.

          7. Hehe thanks man.
             I do have goals no worries. I’m just in a transition period at the moment. Completing certain obligations before I move onto the next thing.
             Trust me I’m fully aware of that… since I was a teen, I realized its all about having something I’m passionate about and women tend to show up once I gain traction.
             My question to Jeff was more about issues like… what are the pros cons of having children at different ages.
             If you have your first child at age 40, you’ll be 70 when your child is 30 years old… Think about that…
             I in fact do want to have children at some point… but as a millennial carving out a path, whilst trying to avoid wage slavery, it isn’t so straight forward. Just trying to score some wisdom.

          8. Getting impregnated by a “father who was in the wrong” is wrong.

          9. The absolute ideal in a society at a level of technological complexity like ours, is for a man of 30-35 to start a family with a woman of 16-22. The man will then be 47-55 by the time the last child arrives. Having teenagers around the house when you’re over 75 just strikes me as a bit of a pain. And keeping fertile women around for extended periods non pregnant, simply doesn’t work. They’re hardwired to view long term lack of pregnancy as a defect in their partner, and hence look for better options.
             Which is also why an age difference of more than 15-20 years starts getting a bit less than ideal, no matter how tight your game is in your 50s. For patriarchs with harems, this does not apply.

          10. I agree with your general point. Just for clarity, I have no problem smashing a single mom or engaging in a casual relationship, provided that I don’t have to meet the child or be involved in that department. However, I’m extremely doubtful about entering into a committed relationship with such a woman, even if her single parenthood is mostly the father’s fault. I just don’t know if I would want to get a child, kind of like a 2 for 1 deal, you know?

          11. Goals take time. Children take time. Adding value to yourself takes time. Time is limited and valuable.
              Goals first. Hopefully you have added value to yourself in the process. Then children. This is the best way i found.
              Nothing wrong with having kids 40+ AS A MAN!

          12. Cheers mate.

          13. I see your point, but one of the things I noticed. Most of the time when I met a single mother, even through friend or family in a platonic way. If the kids were pretty good raised and well behaved, it had a lot to do with the fact that the biological father was very involved or possibly even shared custody with the mother. Which in itself is good, but would complicate things for you. As the father would always be in the picture and the kid would never really bond with you. Maybe even resent you.

          14. interesting point

          15. interesting point

          16. I think I’d get along with your friend.

          17. Great woman who was a single mother and a well brought up kid. I wouldn’t even say 1%.

          18. What if the father died? What if he hit her or abused the child? What if he chose to leave her because of his own issues (plenty of fucked up men in the world too) even though she tried her best to make it work? A few of variables other than “She has proven she will abandon a father”

          19. Perhaps she has demonstrated being a victim of karma so negative that the wise man should avoid her presence so as not to eat some of that bad karma from her.

          20. I understand your point. But I have always thought that if you met a great woman who was a single mother and you ended up meeting the kid and you found the kid was well brought up and engaging it could actually raise her value. I know this is probably just 15%-20% of single mums. But you would also know that you’re with someone who would be a great mother to any children you have in the future. That removes much of the risk from when you have a baby with a girl and she turns out to not have a clue about raising a kid.
              On the reverse if I met a great girl and then met her kid and found he/she was badly brought up etc it would turn you off the girl for good.
              With single mums the kid and how they are brought up is like a canary in the cage.

          21. best avoided, and 80% of the time the woman is partly or wholly to blame. But 15-20% maybe they were not.

          22. I’d say you’re in really good shape Clark. When I was between the ages of 28 (when I first married) & about 38, the early 20’s women were really flirty…but maybe that’s if you’re already taken, but I think not, I think that’s the age difference a lot of those peak child bearing age women are seeking.

          23. Widows get their own category and some amount of leniency. However, when I used the active form of “proven” I don’t see how you could extrapolate “father died” out of it, except by perhaps suggesting that she actually killed him.

          24. Because I said “proven herself”. This necessarily negates adding widows to the conversation.

          25. she has proven that she will abandon a father and leave his progeny in the worst possible place for a child to be raised; by a single mother.
              FIFY

          26. i wouldn’t wait to long after 30 to start having kids, especially if you want more then 1. older dads (late 30s-40s) are far more likely to have mentally/physically disabled kids. plus kids are exhausting and the older you are the harder id assume it is. you also should keep in mind what age you’ll be when the kids 1,15, 20, 30 and going through their own milestones.
              my boyfriend and i took an interest in this topic when he knocked me up at 23 (we are the same age, daughter born when we were 24 – we are 24 now)

          27. do you want your kids to be retarded and you die before meeting your grandkids – then go ahead, wait til your 40s!
              wanna have genetically quality kids and enjoy them for decades to come – have them in your prime fertile years (about 20-30 for women, 25-35 for men)

          28. Zombi thread dig out you can. Female you are not. The only red thing your head is. Much too learn you still have.
              WOMEN, you know those humans with long hair, tits and skirts are the ones to have children young. Their prime is from 15 to 25 but can be extended to 30 is some cases. Best time to have kids. Why? Because a woman needs youth and beauty and both is best served young.
              MEN, you know those humans with beard and career are those who have to build something in life (unless they were born a prince, in witch case the may sire children at 12 if they so desire) and this takes time. Also a boy does not become a man by turning 18, it takes much longer than that to get our shit together. Few make it to a grown man before the age of 30. Betweeen 30 and 40 is a good age for a man to start a family with a girl around 20.

          29. im talking purely about genetics and the kids health. old guys sperm is lower quality.

          30. i am a female and a mom btw. sorry biological truths upset you, but 25-35 yr old guys sperm is way higher quality then 35-50 yr old guys sperm

          31. Scientificly untrue. The quality of sperm = his DNA does not change in a mans life. Sperm is constantly produced by the body unlike female eggs. They are there when the baby woman is born and simply get older over time. What you are refering to is the number of “swimmers” in a mans sperm, this number sometimes goes down with age. But one little guy is enough to do the job you know.
              Besides it is an insult to my 3 healthy kids.
              To sum it up:
              WOMEN get problems with their eggs and during pregnancy as they get older. Thats why women are best served hot and young.
              MEN on the other hand have all the time in the world to fist focus on career and goals in life and later on when they are older, wiser and more wealthy are free to take a young bride and produce babies until they are 70+.
              Women do not like this idea and get rabbid mad when thinking about it but so is life. Hot, young women are queens of the world while poor young guys are …expendable cannon fodder. Later in life this picture is turned on its head.
              You dont have to love it and you cant change it. Live with it.

          32. trust me i’m not bitter. my daughter was born when my boyfriend and i were 24 and we’ll have another one around 27. if anyones bitter about the truth its you.
              we all know womens age matters but plenty of studies show that even with a young fertile women, guys over 40 in general have a much harder time getting her pregnant, their women are more likely to miscarry, and their kids are more likely to have mental and physical disabilities/illnesses. older guys immune systems simply aren’t as strong and are less effective at eliminating defective sperm. (they also have more defective sperm with age) your kids apparently turned out fine so no need to get all offended.
              i get that financially and socially most guys today would rather be 35+ but purely physically speaking you’re better off to be a 25-35 yr old guy with a 20-30 yr old girl. nature doesn’t give a fuck about your bank account – kids are meant for younger adults not grey haired oldies

          33. There is a grain of truth in it. All things beeing equal the younger guy has indeed a better body, more stamina. The problem is that things are NOT equal in the real world.
              The older guy has a lot more experience and often resources and unlike men, for most women a mans looks is a very distant 2nd after his social rankings, fame, wealth and strength of character. All these things come with life experience and age. 35 as a prime for a man you did mention above is something i too, do advice guys to aim for. 30-35 is indeed a good age to start a family for a man when his wife is 20-25 years old. We are in the same boat here lady.

          34. Glad we could come to an agreement. Its tricky these days to find the balance between nature and social circumstances. And i will grant you that men do have a longer fertile lifespan then women. But i’ve seen my uncle devastated that he couldn’t get his 20 years younger wife pregnant (and couldnt afford fertility treatments), so i try to point out the benefits of trying for kids younger when i spot an opportunity. Of course plenty of men and women will have no problem having healthy kids at any age, but its better to err on the side of caution, cause the consequences could be horrible.

    2. This would be an ex-fat chick.
       Or the occasional painfully awkward shy “Adrriaaaaannnn!” type girl that is beautiful if you just take a closer look.

       1. I prefer ugly ducklings – girls that were awkward/braces/chubby/or tomboy in high school or even into their first year at college but then got their act together and blossomed into a full blown 8. These are the kinds of girls you see during the day – surprisingly pretty to be hanging out at a used book store or museum etc. Many were forced to form an actual personality and empathy but aren’t acutely aware of their actual SMV just yet.

          1. Right on.

          2. That type of girl sounds very theoretical.
             I think long term growth and change is more on man’s development timeline, Even an ‘ugly duckling’ in highschool is only going to ‘blossom’ for a few years until she inevitably approaches 30.

          3. Small window of time, though. And you have to rely on pure happenstance to run into these girls. Not like there’s a place where former fatties come together to hang out.

          4. I’m not saying the wall doesn’t happen to them. I’m saying that it’s like getting an Eastern European girl in some respects – she formed a personality and has manners and is usually feminine.

          5. It’s like screening – you find the girl that is actually pretty but maybe is dressed down with glasses and her hair pulled back or not a ton of make up – you go to places where those girls might hang out. Like I said, coffee shops, consignment stores, used book stores all in college towns if they’re available.
             You’re right – you never know what you’re getting but at least you can up your odds. And they don’t have to be former fatties haha – I dated a very pretty midwestern girl for a long time. She was “too skinny” and all limbs in HS. Braces, was in band etc. She started hitting her stride at around 19 I swooped her up at 20. The opposite of the wall – it’s amazing what a year can do for a girl’s looks. Sadly we all know it can all crumble just as fast or faster.

       2. You don’t even understand the irony of your comment.

          1. What is the irony?

          2. Lol, I’d compromise my secret identity on this forum if I told you. You should know about that, Mr. Kent.

          3. O_o
             Sylvester Stallone!? Is that really you???

       3. Former fat chicks, for sure. Often she’s a 7, possibly higher, but still feel like the fat girl, especially if she has hot friends. The only risk here is that, if they are formerly fat, they are one donut binge away from returning to their bad habits that made them fat in the first place. I always proceed with caution with this demographic.

          1. Also, their skin is really stretched out where they used to have all their weight.
             They can look damn fine but then you’re like hey what is all that stuff?

    3. This is misuse of the term unicorn. A unicorn is a hot bi-chick who will have a 3 way with a M-F couple.

    4. Hey, stop disrespecting unicorns! 😉

    5. Oh my Allah gentlemen, avoid single moms like they’re a leper carrying plague in their pocket! They are the most emotionally fucked, manipulative, punishment-doling, misandrist trash you can ever curse your existence with! One guy fucked them over (and I’m soooo sure they themselves didn’t push any buttons themselves in the process, of course!) and it’s a Castration Crusade against all men! We all must pay for they one guy who didn’t want to be forcefucked into being a dad’s “transgression”!

       1. If I don’t have to deal with the child I don’t give 1 single fuck.

       2. The one single mum I dated was the most normal chick I’ve dated. Kid was smart, healthy, and she was proven fertile, had no issues with pregnancy or breastfeeding, and was nice and slim too. So hey, one benefit is at least you know those things up front, instead of marrying some unknown quality that could be infertile, have fucked-up genetics, can’t breastfeed, morphs into a huge fattie after having a kid, or whatever.
          Remember, most women have at least one abortion. So you’re judging the ones who actually don’t want to kill the kid harsher than the ones who do.

11. The writer says don’t waste time on something below average when referring to woman who ranks 6. By definition a woman who ranks 6 is slightly above average.

    1. Think he means average in terms of being a good bang. 6 is average in that context. Good would be 7-7.9. 8-8.9 would be very good. 9+ would be absolutely superb.

    2. Not necessarily. 6 could very well be average.

    3. You have to keep in mind, in America the “average” girl is not bangable. So the average bangable girl by necessity sits at least at a six on the 10-point scale.

       1. The “average” American girl is a 2-3. Because, remember, more than 1/2 of them are obese, making them, in most men’s eyes, at best a 2 (and most of them are 1s).

          1. So the scale is relative depending on geography and culture. But numerically speaking 5 is average between 0 and 10. So in America being 5 just means she’s 25 pounds overweight?

          2. I’m honestly not certain that the scale is relative. Don’t know about you, but when I see an American 2-3, I’m disgusted. No amount of ‘but every 1 out of 2 women look as bad as her’ will keep me from choking down the gag reflex.

          3. I’m not sure it’s relative unless you never look at “global” media (television) or any other outside influence. Yes, if you live in a small hut in Africa with no contact at all with the outside world, you can probably say that the women around you will normalize at a “5”.
             Problem is, today, we all know a 10 looks like, we see them every day on TV/movies/porn/magazines/etc. And then we look around us and see drooling fat hippos and know that’s nowhere near what a 10 looks like. It’s the globalization of beauty that makes the 1-10 scale less relative to your individual location.

          4. 0- 4 is not bangable to me. I don’t want to let them in my apartment. It might be difficult to get rid of them. Not worth it. I think ONS could be within consideration for 5.

          5. stay true to a scale of standards & aesthetics…but I have 3 scales.
             1.) World scale…measuring a girl vs. other girls globally
             2.) National scale…measuring a girl vs. other American girls
             3.) Local scale…measuring a girl vs. the pajama/flip-flop wearing poor hygiene having weed smoking creatures that look like they just fell out of an aspen tree here in Colorado.
             An experienced man with self-respect & world travel who is above the age of 25 should only refer to scale # 1

          6. I hear you but world scale is confusing in american. A woman who is a 6 from russia automatically gets becomes 7.5 just by moving to america. Other straight women she doesn’t know will compliment her on her looks, just because she makes an effort to wear a dress on a date.

12. Never do a LTR with a women below a 7. Ever.
    The assumption among average women that you should only date women who are 6-7’s instead of 8-9’s because they have “better personalities” is bogus reasoning that assumes that hot girls can’t have decent personalities and assumes that hot girls are stuck up JUST BECAUSE they are hot and nothing more. In my personal experience the more attractive a women is the nicer she treats men, even when rejecting you.

    1. I’d say that the ‘average’ girls are full of shit too. Usually, due to FB and social media, they have a highly inflated self worth due to getting so many “Likes” from spineless manginas. They are 6’s but literally think that they are 9’s because everybody in the like, omg, whole like, you know, universe tells her she’s hot.
       The 8-10’s already know they’re beautiful and don’t need to have so much validation and are, in my experience, easier to approach and talk to. There is a level of honesty with them and they are masters at schluffing off betas thirsty for their attention. The 6 on the other hand cannot get enough external validation.

       1. Accurate observations

13. Still, I would never give my heart and soul—let alone my worldly possessions—to any woman, no matter how hot she may be.

    1. I have heard that sentence, in paraphrase, from so many men that I’ve talked to over my who are now married.
       Best of luck to you though.

       1. Like most men, I used to idolize certain women. It was only after much pain and disillusionment, I finally came to realize that romantic love was nothing but my own mental projection upon a female’s external form. So now, my de facto assumption about any women is that she is shallow, narcissistic, and devoid of empathy—no matter how physically attractive she may be.

14. This is one of the best breakdowns of the 1-10 attractiveness scale and what type of relationships to have with them I’ve read.
    One issue is women in at least the United States are so lacking in attractiveness that the average has been reduced and reduced. I would say its dropped to about a 3.5-4 instead of the standard 5. Its sad when out of 10 women. There are probably 8/10 a five or below. This leads to the constant pedestalization of women that are nothing special just because the fact that they are average or slightly above. Men can get trapped easier with a less attractive woman just due to the scarcity of an actual average 5.

    1. American standards are in decline. Its obvious when you travel. I went out with a 26 y/o nanny from Thailand who was worried about getting fat, going from 115 to 120 pounds while living in America. She was pretty much horrified by what she saw in american women, and that she might become like that if she stayed in america too long. What’s even more fucked up is that american women actually believe they are the hottest thing on the planet due to hollywood myth making.

       1. I’ve seen it first hand. What women outside the western world recognize is that their value is heavily tied to their attractiveness. Western women don’t until it’s too late.

    2. Was thinking along the same lines…
       European 5 = North American 6.5

    3. Thank you. Living in a ski resort town in USA is a tough go in Spring & Autumn…
       I rely on the tourist snow-bunnies in the Winters & the EE girls that are here in Summer.
       I still stay true to my scale & standards…but I have 3 scales.
       1.) World scale…measuring a girl vs. other girls globally
       2.) National scale…measuring a girl vs. other American girls
       3.) Local scale…measuring a girl vs. the pajama/flip-flop wearing poor hygiene having weed smoking creatures that look like they just fell out of an aspen tree here in Colorado.

15. Everybody says there are no 10’s. I disagree. To me, a 10 is a “9” that has every one of your physical ideals.
    So, for example, a 19 year old Jennifer Aniston would be a 9 to most men, but a 10 to a guy who likes shorter, thin, mousy girls with exactly her hair color and cut, and exactly her eye color and exactly her body type. Nobody would deny she was a 9 in her day, but to a guy who likes the Mediterranean look, or the busty Nordic Goddess look, she wouldn’t hit the 10 marker, whereas with me, she’s a solid 10 (in her day, and hell, still not bad now even in her 40’s).

    1. 9? 10?
       There is no practical difference.

       1. That’s all I’m actually saying. A 10 is a 9 who rings all of my bells. A 10 to you may be a 9 to me because she is, for example, too tall (or whatever).

          1. Agreed

16. I have a friend who needs to be in a relationship at all times (Ha). He goes for 4/5s and they always cheat on him because they are so insecure that any man’s attention is always welcomed.

    1. Thats how it is, the 4-6’s are the most dangerous girls to invest in emotionally. Girls know where they are on the scale and the lower numbers think if they fuck 10 guys this month she’ll feel like a hot girl.
       7’s and up only for relationships.

       1. 7s and ups also go for one night stands with valuable men, only with greater discretion, in order to preserve their reputation with their family/girlfriends.
          That is why daddy’s girl turns into a slut when traveling abroad. Social rules prevent women from going into slut-mode. Take a girl’s social circle away, and she will instinctively became promiscuous with the available Alphas.

          1. Millennial females don’t care about “reputation”. That’s a quaint notion to them. There’s no social penalty to being with a different man every month. Their friends are doing it, and their single mom’s are coming to them for dating advice on how to use tinder.

          2. That’s true in large part, but every girl deep down knows there’s no value in sluttery. That’s why they always play down their number.

          3. True, this is why men cant win nowadays. The odds are stacked against us. You get an average looking girl, shes insecure; you get a beautiful girl and she can drop her panties for any guy at her choosing. Pump and dump is the only way unless you can find a Mormon girl or something.

          4. Mormon < Slavic

          5. I may add that I currently live in latin-america, so for females, reputation is still a factor they [somewhat] take into account. Our social order has not yet devolved to the level of anglosaxon countries, but is rapidly getting there, perhaps within the next 10 years.

17. Good thing that I’ve met with this article. My attention goes to the 7up from now on. Fuck I wish I had this knowledge sooner. Anyway, it’s open season now !

    1. There has been so much time spent on the lower quality women because of the shaming by society (women, white knights).
       A man has to meet all of the check marks on a woman’s list (at least while she’s young and hot) but a woman can “just be herself”….and the man must accept it.
       Everyone love how that equality thing is working out (lol).

       1. ‘A man has to meet all of the check marks on a woman’s list (at least
          while she’s young and hot) but a woman can “just be herself”….and the man must accept it.’
          but of course even if the man meets all the check marks on a woman’s list, she would deny that and simply say “I accept you because you seem like a such nice guy”. the unsaid implication is : ” you’re simply being a nice guy is enough for me to accept you so it is only fair that you look pass my face/height/weight/wealth/hypergamy and accept me for who I am – a nice girl”.

    2. Confused. Why would you be spending time with sub-par women in the first place?

       1. A well educated, well dressed 6 can fool you.
          The message is in rap music :
          ,,What the hell is Ice Cube talkin about
          That’s how you get these nuts parked in you mouth
          Westside ride bitch, the same old spit
          I don’t conversate with pussy I ain’t gon’ get
          I don’t holla at these hoes that sing like Ashanti
          Body like Beyonce, face like Andre (uhhh)
          Bitch, you kinda strange
          But I’m rich so my entree got to be Bombay ”

18. You never decide on the type of a relationship to pursue based on a woman’s looks… NEVER!
    Your article could be summed up to “If you like a woman, have a LTR, if you don’t, just fuck her”. All the rest is just fluff…
    And guess what: You are absolutely wrong.
    Only 2 things matter for LTR’s: Her personality and the way she is treating YOU. If you like her personality and she is treating you right, she is a keeper. Looks don’t enter the equation: If you like her and can get aroused by her consistently (without using alcohol and/or drugs) then she is fine. And if she is fine for some bangs or a STR, why not for a LTR? Looks fade, but they fade harder the more beautiful she is…
    Staying in a LTR with a woman or ignoring her flaws in other areas, just because she is hot, is looking for trouble.
    PS: No true man ever cares what other people think about the women he dates/bangs. Actually, a true man never cares what other people think about anything. He is not apologizing for his choices. It is funny when i see self-proclaimed “Alphas” or “Game-writters” display such a beta-ish behaviour…

    1. You say looks don’t enter in the equation: If you like her and can get aroused by her consistently then she is fine. So how do you get aroused if looks don’t matter? Do you close your eyes and pretend you’re with someone else?

       1. Do you close your eyes and pretend you’re with someone else?
          Heh, and that in itself would still validate that looks matter, n’est-ce pas?

          1. I’ve never used boner pills like viagra. Does that make ugly women appear bangable?

          2. I have no idea, not having used boner pills. Good observation in part however, since so many guys, even younger ones, seem to pop those pills (for reasons I don’t understand). If she can’t give you a natural boner, she shouldn’t be rewarded with sex. Anything else, as you note, encourages bad behavior and attitudes.

          3. “Does that make ugly women appear attractive?”
             Absolutely fucking not. What it does do is allow you to fuck women that your dick normally wouldn’t wake up for. Trust me, if you need Viagra to get it up because she’s so ugly, you should leave that shit in the bottle! Because, man alive are you going to regret it in the morning.
             Your body it telling you something by not getting hard, listen to it! You’re not supposed to sleep with women who look like hippos!

          4. ‘You’re not supposed to sleep with women who look like hippos!’
             fat women don’t look like hippos! hippos are cute!
             
             

       2. He doesn’t say that looks don’t matter at all.
          If you’re aroused by a girl this is partly down to her looks.
          He’s just saying looks ate not everything or even the most important thing and you shouldn’t be looking around to see if the people around you approve of the girl you are seeing.

       3. Maybe use the sense of smell and a blindfold?

    2. Actually I think as long as a girl is decent looking and not fat, if her personality is good, she is fun, interesting, looks after herself, dresses nicely and treats you well I think she adds points for her looks.
       If you’re with a stunner who has a foul personality in the end looks don’t matter and you wont even want to look at her.
       She has got to bring something that is to your benefit and makes your life better for being around her. And you have to add something to her life so that you’re s positive thing that makes her life better.
       There are plenty of amazing 6+’s who make excellent girlfriends and LTRs.
       There are plenty of 8, 9 and 10’s that are not worth the effort and aggro.
       Looks are important, but you cannot ignore the fact that personality can add or take away several points so a 10 can easily end up being a 4 and a four can push her way up to a 7 or 8.

       1. I agree with you completely.
          An 8 with a permanent scowl on her face will get beat by a smiling upbeat 7 any day of the week.

          1. That’s what I was trying to say, maybe not very clearly.
             A 6 or 7 can easily add a few points through personality.
             Many 8 or 9’s lose a few points.

          2. …which is to say, there is female Game just as there is male Game. 😉

          3. Absolutely there is.

          4. Yea…but im still tryen to bang the 8’s & 9’s

       2. A 4 can NEVER push her way up to a 7 or 8. A 4 in my book is ugly. She could be as kind as Mother Theresa, cook like Martha Stewart, I couldn’t give a fuck. Not smashing, not even being a platonic friend.

    3. Agree with the last paragraph. The whole “getting laid to an 7,8,9… is some sort of an achievement” mentality, is a major part of why I like to say casual sex has replaced religion as the Opium of the People. It’s just another waste of a potential revolutionary/freedom fighter/terrorist, who instead of blowing up members of the scumocracy, runs around playing some silly game of “getting girls” to impress his equally inconsequential friends.
       But, ugly girls will almost inevitably treat you “well” if you let them. To them, you’re a catch. The kind of woman you would want based on personality, is the one that will someone much worse than you well. Say, a version of you with both legs and your dick blown off, drooling in a wheelchair……. And women of that caliber, are much more likely to be found amongst 8s (Unicorn alert these days…..) who still treat you well if you are a 6, than amongst 4s that do.
       Men evolved to select based on looks, because looks correlate highly with genetic fitness in women. So, no matter if a fugly clips your toenails with her buck teeth every night, you’re doing your kids a statistical disservice by not picking a fitter mom.
       Moral of the story is to try performing a reasonable-time-and-effort search for a woman based on both aesthetic and behavioral traits (and family/wealth ones as well.) Don’t wife up a heroin addicted whore who happens to be hot, but don’t say I Do to a hippo, either.

    4. I don’t trust any man who is willing to settle for a woman who is obviously not up to his physical standards. He is, in my book, a total loser.

    5. Looks should not be the most important, but saying they don’t matter is just plain stupid. In the long run, unless you are impotent, you do need to be attracted to and sexually aroused by your spouse. If she is hideous, that obviously will not work, no matter how great she treats you.
       I do however agree that forcing a relationship with a girl that is a 8+ in looks, but has a bad personality is a recipe for disaster.

    6. I disagree. If a fat girl is treating you well and has a great personality she’s still not relationship material

19. i found it hard to visualize the 1-10 scale … until now .
    Great read , thank you !

    1. Unfortunately, after seeing the 1 and 2 category I find it hard to unvisualize them. I have to go to Eye Bleach.

       1. 13 minutes was enough.

20. The only real disagreement I would have is something kind of touched on; a lot of times the 8-9s are way more suited to a casual relationship than STR or LTR. Because most guys (and most society) lavish praise, rewards, and low expectations on extremely attractive women, they frequently fail to develop the personality traits that make them interesting for more than drinks conversation or a casual lay. They’re often demonstrably vapid, useless, and entitled; honestly begging to be used and discarded as a way of taking their ego down a notch.
    I’ve had way more fun with 7’s during non-coital time, and a lot of time taking it down even to a 6 rewards a girl who’s more giving and experimental/enthusiastic. While it’s certainly rewarding to plow an 8 who will just lay there and moan, it’s not more satisfying than the 7 who will howl out “ram my ass!” or the 6 who has learned some eastern breathing technique that doesn’t require her throat be unobstructed.
    YMMV I suppose

    1. There’s an old post by Roosh buried somewhere where he says 6 – 7 are more consistent, for purposes of learning game anyway. I think the point being that you don’t need game for 0 – 5, they’ll approach you or all you have to do is talk to them. Charging for the hottest babe in the room requires very developed game.

21. I never understand the high-heals thing… was never a mentionable for me for some reason…
    If anything, when a chick wears heels too often I get annoyed because it limits spontaneity… Can’t climb trees, can’t roam into no-trespassing zones, can’t dance as freely, can’t eat magic mushrooms without fear of personal injury… unless its for a high-heels kinda party I honestly just think it looks dumb most of the time…
    Personal preference I guess.
    But I do like it when a girl wears a dress or skirt. Although dirty jeans can be fun too… meh… Variety is the spice of life my friends…

    1. I rarely am in a social situation where climbing trees is called for, heh.

    2. as long as they know how to dress up sometimes in a dress and heels…if they dress normally in jeans and trainers the rest of the time it’s nice that you don’t have to wait around for makeup to be applied etc. Also when they do dress up you notice it much more than if they do it all the time. You also have to be practical – would you really want to wear a three piece suit every day of the week?

       1. Been there. Done that.
          My only real objection was the cost.

    3. Trick is to find a chick who can go from sweats to jeans/t-shirt to skirt and heels to elegant dress and knows how to make them all work at the appropriate times.

       1. This is NOT a political comment.
          Ok, that said, what you express can be found in women like Sarah Palin. Forget her politics, and her age (for her age, she’s still quite attractive, btw). She can go from hunting camos and sporting a rifle, to dressing like the beauty queen in the blink of an eye, and look great regardless.
          There are younger girls like that still, some chick who caught flack on FB for hunting deer (it was on the manosphere, I think heartiste covered it). She was absolutely cute as a button, and the picture of her with her dead dear, contra-posed with her in an elegant dress, showed that this standard *is* possible for some women.

    4. Heels mimic lordosis one example of this is when she curves her back doggy style

       1. She doesn’t need high-heels to do that 😛

          1. Hahah true. It’s just a man attracting device is all. I too prefer my women more free to follow me around on my monkey adventures and monkey pump them on abandoned bridges n such.

          2. The stuff of great memories 😀

          3. That puts into different perspective!

          4. Although I would reminisce myself, aren’t we too old for that ?

          5. Maybe you are brother. I’m a parkour teacher too though.

    5. High heels are probably the most feminine thing a woman can do. I am a strong man that can think objectively in the presence of a woman I just met…
       But my weaknesses will always be:
       1.) High heels
       2.) Long, silky, straight, pitch-black hair
       3.) Lip stic
       4.) Flowery perfume
       5.) Black yoga pants

    6. Exactly, I commented on that right before seeing your post… it only limits women’s movement and it’s not like I am going to see a hot chick and be like “oh she’s not wearing high heels, 0/10 would not bang!” anyway…

22. Sometimes when you see a guy (like me) with a less than ideal woman, it’s because I was with her long before the wall. She gave me her best, loyally, years ago. Now she is getting my best (her reward for loyalty and faithfulness)

    1. I suspect the statement applied more to the dating/singles scene than to a couple that has been married for 20+ years.

       1. Good point GoJ.

    2. Dump that troglodyte…

       1. What, so I can sit and whine about women like a vacuous pussy? No thanks. I am happy.

23. Whenever one guy says “that one’s a 10,” some other guy will invariably pipe up with something like “she’s an 8.5, tops.” Such endless arguments aren’t typically the result of true disagreement; they’re usally just a reflection of sloppy or inconsistent definitions.
    Here’s my proposal, which is firmly grounded in standard statistical usage. Beauty, like any other characteristic determined by a large number of independent random factors, is almost certainly normally distributed (i.e., it falls on a bell curve). There’s a standard mapping of a 1–9 scale to such a curve called stanines, with a mean of 5 and a standard deviation of 2. Add 0 and 10 symmetrically about 5 and you’ve got your ten-point scale.
    This scale agrees well with typical usage. 5 is average, 7 is noticeably pretty (prettier than around 84% of the population), 9 is exceptionally pretty (top 2.5% or so, the beauty equivalent of a “gifted” IQ). Using this definition, a 10 isn’t mythical, just very rare. 10 is 2.5 SD above the mean, which is approximately top 0.6%. (It’s likely that the distribution has so-called “fat tails,” so this might be more like top 1%, but you get the idea.) This means that, if you do a rank-ordering of a large number of women and a particular hottie is top 0.6%, she’s a 10 by definition—no argument necessary.
    Of course, there are some who use a ten-point scale but insist that “there’s no such thing as a true 10.” In statistics, this is known as a “nine-point scale.”

    1. The photos I posted below to illustrate a 10 face weren’t simply faces I deemed good looking.
       They were found by first constructing a theoretical model of the perfect female head/face and then searching a broad range of women for those that best met the model. In the first case it turned out to be an actress famous for her beauty (many thousands of ‘ordinary’ women were tested as well, however, it wasn’t a celebrity hunt publicity stunt). The second an ‘unknown’ teenage girl who submitted her photo to an open call.
       In other words, they were judged on a nine point scale. Neither was a perfect match, but came closer than anyone else tested. The end point was a Platonic Ideal.
       Those that hold that there actually are tens are operating from a different scale. Rather than taking Platonic Ideals as the end points, they take the best and worst examples. So, by their definition, Catherine Deneuve is a 10 and other women judged by their distance from her standard.
       So, as you say (In effect I’m just repeating you in other words), the argument is one of definitions, not so much of the women, but of the metric.

    2. The Asymptotic 10.

    3. So what something like this? About 7?

       1. http://i.imgur.com/BkZuqzv.jpg

       2. Thin, cute smile, under 30, then that’s like 6.5 in russia, or gets bumped up to 7.5 just relocating to america.

       3. She’s cute. 7+

24. Keep your “How to guide” I like ugly chicks.They are generally more fun and try harder. I’m secure enough in myself to be seen anywhere, anytime with any woman regardless of looks. I’m not intimated by any extremes of your so called 1-10 scale.
    Sounds like the whole statement is based on your own insecurities. Why advertise them to the world?

    1. So essentially you just said:
       1. You don’t turn on pretty girls enough so that they try hard for you or be fun around you.
       2. You’re so secure that you have to make a comment telling us about your security, because otherwise we won’t realize it.
       Um…

       1. 1. Your incorrect assumption and subsequent comment is standard ,predictable and usual on web discussion. You also didn’t read it properly.”Any woman” means precisely that .
          2. I couldn’t give a fuck if you think I’m secure or insecure, you don’t know me,nor me you. The author of this ridiculous post sends out a message. My take on it is this: If he can’t be seen in public with a below par female (looks) who is otherwise a decent person to talk to and party with,is rather insecure and too concerned what others might think.
          This website has many great articles, posts and discussions. Sadly this isn’t one of them and only adds fodder to a growing consensus that the site is full of misogynists that spend days writing articles instead of going out and meeting the women they hold to such high standards.

          1. ‘My take on it is this: If he can’t be seen in public with a below par female (looks) who is otherwise a decent person to talk to and party with,is rather insecure and too concerned what others might think.’
             au contraire, he is so secure in himself that he is willing to challenge and defy all those ‘it is what on the inside that counts’ or ‘fat girls need love too’. in essence, he wears ‘men are shallow’ as a badge of pride.
             ‘This website has many great articles, posts and discussions. Sadly this isn’t one of them and only adds fodder to a growing consensus that the site is full of misogynists that spend days writing articles instead of going out and meeting the women they hold to such high standards.’
             correct me if i’m wrong but you’re no red piller for red pillers don’t give a flying fuck on whatever growing consensus there is amongst the clans feminazi/white-knight/SJW , we are secure and unshakable in our beliefs.

          2. “correct me if i’m wrong but you’re no red piller for red pillers don’t give a flying fuck on whatever growing consensus there is amongst the clans feminazi/white-knight/SJW , we are secure and unshakable in our beliefs.”
             Ah well you see, I can’t correct you if your’re wrong, you are unshakable in your belief.

25. Of course The Devil you should care if you offend them, as you said! They are known for being as shallow and petty as it can get and having ZERO standards themselves when they choose men, so straight to Hell!
    Women truly have no standards at all, they have criteria. Here’s the difference: Criteria is some a person who born with, something coincidental, something they put no effort into (being tall, being black, having a British accent, or other superficial phony bullshit women go shopping for in men without actually understanding that there is an actual person under all that!). Standards are actual what a person worked hard for, takes pride in, and sets them apart from the other sheep (a good job, a killer body, social adeptness, and other actual MERITS the person stands firmly behind).
    No wonder so many of them in our country live such long, miserable lives of disappointment. Well I have no sympathy, as none is deserved!

26. Step Two should include no tattoos, no hair coloring, and no piercings except on the earlobes. Also, learn to play classical music. It demonstrates intelligence and manual dexterity in a traditional, feminine, non-threatening way.
    In short, be *conventionally* attractive. Only a full-blood Scotsman can wear a kilt without looking like a fag, and only a desi woman can pierce her nose without looking like a freak. Don’t try to be exotic, unique, special, shocking, paradigm-breaking, etc. No one wants to marry a narcissist.

27. What is missed in this article is what part of the scale a man must be in order to be this discerning. The lower down the scale he is, the better his game must be to compensate, but I don’t think a man can sink lower than a 4 and expect to capture 8-9 for LTR unless he’s rich, famous or both. In other words, you can’t be obese and expect to bang and date hot models, unless you’re paying outright for it (fair enough) or have super-high value and pay for it a little more indirectly.
    My guidelines are: a man with some confidence and very basic game should be able to score 2 full points above his physicality (for example, a male 5 can capture a female 7 for LTR and anything below), BUT advanced game can add another 1-2 points I believe — such that a red pill 5 with tight game and irrational self-confidence can potentially capture a 9 for a short-term relationship (until his $ runs out…).
    I keep myself in the 8 range (genetics + healthy eating / drinking + physical activity + a sense of style) and despite the fact that I’m not rich, I’ve ever only banged 1 gal in my 44 years who wasn’t a solid 7 on my scale. And my notch count is a little beyond 50.

28. 10’s are a myth…
    Concentrate your efforts on 7s and above only

29. How to deduct points on the scale:
    If she has a kid automatically 2.5 points knocked off no matter what she looks like…
    For every 10 lbs overweight she is 1 point off the scale
    For every abortion she has had 1 point off the scale
    If she is obsessed with Kim Kardashian/Beyonce/Taylor Swift 2 points off
    Any other deductions???

    1. If she has a little dog or a horse, 2 points knocked off. For cats, 1 point.
       Also, I’d be far harsher if she had an abortion, as it suggests she would kill you without thinking twice.

    2. This is ridiculous. What does abortions or her celebrity idols have to do with how physically attractive she is?

       1. Because I strongly suspect that most men find murderers rather unattractive despite physical characteristics?

30. Roosh has apparently launched his new Gaming site. Reaxxion.com. Head over and check it out. It’s already been infested with angry feminists and SJW’s.

    1. The website is a topic of disgust on the SJW gamergate thread on neogaf so it’s no suprise.

31. The advice given here is only valid for alphas. And us alphas do not need this advice because we know it anyways.
    But the 85% of beta (or worse) men out there would do themselfs no favor following your advice law dogger.
    “come right over and fuck, another one will.”
    No they wont. Not if you are a male 6 or worse yourself.
    Yes fake it ’til you make it is good advice. It will get you ONS and some STR.
    If you want more you better bring a lot of value to the table.
    If you DO bring the value you will get the 6s for free in numbers. But ONLY then.

    1. It’s valid with no pre-conditions required.

32. Regarding Secret Internet Fatties, try this funny little game, duders – ask a girl who only has pics of her face/head in her online dating/Tinder profile to send you a pic of her whole body, head to toe. Once the hamster wheel in her skull starts turning about what cop out to impromptu invent, she’ll magically say the camera on her phone is suddenly “broken” or “doesn’t work”.
    To which I suddenly retort with “Oh really? They very second I happened to ask it just suddenly stopped work, eh?” or even more assholish “Interesting, Apple must have singled out your phone from their satellite in space out of all iPhones on the planet to send a malfunction to right when I asked!”

    1. Even better, don’t even waste your time with any kind of response.

33. As men, we should not neglect our own looks. Get a good haircut that accentuates your features (depending on the society you live in). Dress well, mind the fit of your clothes and the look of your shoes. Pay attention to colour. You’re not doing it right if you don’t get compliments from random women you don’t know.

34. And don’t be a fat slob yourself.

35. Awesome article…

36. This article is a breath of fresh air. Recently this site has been overrun with excessive feminism bashing. I hate feminism as much as the next guy but damn, the constant whining about it won’t help shit. Salute to Law Dogger.

37. Lol, its funny, this scale is built in to most men from an early age. I realized I had this scale, although it wasnt as specific, it gets the job done.
    Levels
    Would not even want a blowjob (0-1)
    Would let her blow me and thats it (2+)
    I would smash if i was desperate or in a severe drought (3+)
    I would smash, secretly on the down low at late hours and not be seen in public by anyone (4+)
    I would smash during daylight hours and if someone saw me, I wouldnt trip (5+)
    I might take her out to the movies occasionally or out to eat, nothing more (6+)
    I would take her out more often, even invite her to the gym and meet my friends (7+)
    I would do all of the above, plus she can meet my family and if i accidentally got her pregnant I wouldnt trip (8+)
    I would show her off, get her pregnant with my child, introduce her to my family and tie the knot (9+)

    1. nice…and honest

       1. I wouldn’t do anything sexual with any girl below a 5. Would prefer if I didn’t even have to exchange words with a girl below 5.

38. I’ve actually done that before with friends and the response I received was along the lines of “you don’t understand love like I do.”
    And they’re right. You are the one who loses in the end, and you don’t even get it.

    1. ‘ I’ve actually done that before with friends and the response I
       received was along the lines of “you don’t understand love like I do.” ‘
       so you’re admitting that you don’t understand love?
       ‘And they’re right. You are the one who loses in the end, and you don’t even get it.’
       but if your friends were right that you don’t understand love then how can you say that they’re right about something which you don’t even understand?
       ‘You are the one who loses in the end, and you don’t even get it.’
       what exactly did you lose? when precisely that “end” was? and what specifically that ‘ it ‘ which you didn’t even get?

39. And who says the “8” wants your shallow judgemental ass.
    – A 5’2 120lb 21 year old brunette who worked as head cook in a bakery, is pretty damn fit (swordfights, runs, excercises daily and eats a whole foods plant based diet) and can hold her breath for over a minute but probably falls into an undatable catagory to you because she rarely wears high heels, has short hair and is a feminist.
    Get out in the real world assface.

    1. Because you’re describing a lesbian it appears…

       1. Hmmm funny cause I’m not into girls or feminine boys. Just men who are mature and not angry that it’s no longer 1920 and women are equally valid human beings not breeding stock

          1. i know a mature man, he’ll turn 80 next year and he’s 5’2″ just like you. on top of everything, he views women as equals, you’ll both make a great couple.

          2. To be fair even if I did grow my hair back out I probably wouldn’t be /your/ 8-10 cause everyone has a different ideal and I’m no model. The fact is I don’t care that you want to date someone you find attractive, I care that you’re going out of your way to imply that women are only of value if you find them super sexy and they want to be your slave.
             (My boyfriend says I’m his 10 but I think he’s delusional or trying to score points.)

          3. lol… if you have 10 women on rotation you’re not in a relationship. You’re playing the field.

          4. Sorry I have a man and he’s in his 20s. My list was mostly to prove the point that this article is ridiculous (in my opinion) because even if it matched up with one of you people’s idea of sexy you would just hone in on the fact that I’m a girl who’s not currently bearing your child or making a sandwich. Just curious, how old are you and are you in a relationship? I don’t want to know so I can insult you I’m just trying to understand

          5. Nobody cares what you’re into. This isn’t about you.

          6. ‘Just curious, how old are you and are you in a relationship? I don’t want to know so I can insult you I’m just trying to understand’
             i’m under 30 yo and in a relationship with 10-11 women.

          7. ‘The fact is I don’t care that you want to date someone you find attractive, I care that you’re going out of your way to imply that women are only of value if you find them super sexy and they want to be your slave.’
             the article is here on manosphere and is not even supposed to be read by women. if there’s anyone going out of one’s way then it is you who went out of your way to come here and broadcast that you don’t like the article.
             and so what if men here do think that women are of only value to THEM if those women are super sexy and submissive? those men are not trying to dictate anything to you, heck you’re not even supposed to be here and read the article, you are still absolutely free to hold those women are of value to YOU because of whatever reason that suits YOU.
             ‘My boyfriend says I’m his 10 but I think he’s delusional or trying to score points.’
             in other words, he’s either delusional or a liar, why would you even degrade yourself with a man like that? do you think he is your 10? or are you just waiting for someone better to come along?

       2. Well, at least we know she can cook. It’s a big step up from most women in America, today.
          I still won’t go for it due to the short haircut plus feminist bullshit, though.

          1. A short haired feminist that wields a sword??? Sign me up.

          2. yaw dawg are you suicidal or aspire to be an eunuch? she can hack that sword against your 8″ long schlong faster than you can say “lemaricaus jamal jihad” yaw! nomesayin?

    2. She weilds a sword, has short hair, rarely wears heels & is a feminist?
       Well…she claims she an hold her breath for over a minute so at least we know she can give a blow-job in a hot tub…so…sign me up I guess.

       1. What is the end of the sentence?

    3. ‘A 5’2 120lb 21 year old brunette who worked as head cook in a
       bakery, is pretty damn fit (swordfights, runs, excercises daily and
       eats a whole foods plant based diet) and can hold her breath for over a
       minute but probably falls into an undatable catagory to you because she
       rarely wears high heels, has short hair and is a feminist.’
       sorry bro but you’re really short so that’s perhaps most men are intimidated by you. but for the sake of true equality, i’m sure many men will be more than pleased to introduce you to a 5’2″ friend of them.

    4. Being 5.2 doesn’t make a woman unattractive. But short hair and feminist is an ugly combination. If a woman has short hair she better have a damn cute face, and not be feminist.

    5. My view on LTR
       “Do I look fat in this; tell me the truth!”
       (Shits with the door open, calls me uncouth)
       “We need to talk,” meaning “I need to speak”
       Monthly, she loses her mind for a week
       Tirades that amble in air like a fart
       Tone of a motor from Mario Kart
       Subjects profound as a packet of salt
       Knows no philosophy: “Who is John Galt?”
       Half of her pell grants are squandered on shoes
       Miss independent, until she must choose
       Between two outfits, or purple and pink
       Let’s go out dancing! *Vomits in sink*
       Once, we had one of those pregnancy scares
       Later on she, *ahem* fell down the stairs
       Kids aren’t so awful; divorce court is mean:
       Gavels bisect you, and God saves the queen

40. Law Dogger, great quote at the end from the Ukrainian girl….I agree.
    Actually, some of the most dark & brutally honest comments I’ve ever heard in my life have come from the mouths of Ukrainian girls in heels. Fantastic piece here.
    “Once you realize there is not only a sea of women out there, but a fucking massive ocean’s worth you will understand that if this 6 doesn’t want to come right over and fuck, another one will. Save your time and efforts of dating for a girl that brings you the visual pleasure you require, meeting the minimum aesthetics necessary for a relationship. At that point you can then determine if she has the other qualities sufficient to engage in such a relationship.”
    ^^^^^Words to live by^^^^^

41. There’s a reason that higher-value men are pairing up with 6s (in the US). They’re just easier to be with, especially in this day and age.
    Here in the US, with obesity out of control, any woman who is thin now has an inflated value and sense of self-worth. Even if she is nothing special, simply being thin gives her a huge desirability boost, and she knows it. A thin 7 now sees herself as an 8.5. A thin 8 thinks she is Aphrodite reincarnated.
    The problem with 8s (and even some 7s) is that they are getting hollered at left and right from every man with a pulse, and a lot of these men are high-value. Because of this, the 8 does not truly appreciate her current high-value boyfriend. So the boyfriend has to deal with more high-maintenance and cuntish behavior. Eventually, that shit can wear any man down.
    6s also get hollered at fairly often, but usually by lower-value men, since they seems more approachable & attainable. Thus when the 6 lucks out and lands a decent higher-value man, she appreciates him more, because he is better than the men she gets usually attention from. She is kinder, sweeter, less demanding, more nurturing, and overall easier to be around. Her boyfriend might still lust for 8s, but internet porn and the occasional high-class callgirl can easily satisfy that craving.
    Who enjoys their life more? A guy with an 8 on his arm, stressed about the other men she talks to when he’s not looking, or a mellow guy at home playing Scrabble with his 6 after a nice blowjob?

    1. No way I’m reproducing with a 6, though. Can’t corrupt my gene pool like that.

42. Ok. I just don’t understand this obssession with girls wearing high heels…

    1. Aside from the fact that it’s amazing anyone can actually walk around in those things without severely injuring themselves, they just look damn good.

    2. Agreed.
       High heels are for “dressing up”, Women who wear heels all the time use them as self-pedestals. These women are usually more bitchy and high-maintenance and not LTR material.
       I’m talking about US women here…it’s probably different in EE

    3. me neither.
       if there was a rape culture (fading echo effect here), womyn would not wear shoes that make it hard to run away even in an urban environment.
       but wait… isn’t that victim blaming (another echo effect RIGHT HERE)?
       and they do it for themselves! i know many many many grrrrls who completely cover themselves in makeup, wear supershort skirts and show cleavage for a night of chickflicks alone at home. really. i dont kid you. no, for real! just for themselves…

43. You first need to find that “10”…. -_-
    And when you do O_o….. let me know

    1. Done. Happy?

       1. 7.5 at best

          1. You have high standards. You sound like one of those girls…

          2. Nah. I’m just not into skinny model-type chicks with chicken legs and no ass. Think J.Lo, Vida Guerra, Jessica Beil, Shakira and yes, I can’t leave out Kim Kardashian. Keep your size 0 and size 2 girls.

          3. looking at her breast and her ass I wouldn’t say she is the skinny tipe of model. Anyway there is some subjectivity. everybody has is own 10

          4. Ditto….

       2. BS. For me she is 6.
          Here is MY example of 10.
          https://vk.com/kukla_ko1duna?z=photo56062249_345586369%2Falbum56062249_0%2Frev

       3. Your personal 10 is a solid 8 to me(not that it matters, of course)

       4. She’s not my type them legs are whack

44. All women have something they want to change about themselves. Calling a woman 10 puts her on a pedestal, creating distortions. As others said, men are attracted to different things, one man’s 10 is another man’s 9, and the reverse. You have to position yourself to stand out from other men, that can mean good looks, money, bad ass job without money, over the top personality with irrational self confidence, understanding of female psychology.

    1. Agreed.

45. I’ve still got got some beta walls to climb, one being; if call a girl over for a booty call how do I word it to get her to leave so it doesn’t turn into (for what she hopes for) a STR. I’ve still got the programming in me to avoid being “mean”.

46. Thank you for not posting POF (pics of fugly)
    It’s nice article and the scale is more realistic however I don’t agree with cheat sheets. There are plenty of good looking cunts (9-11) who don’t have what it takes to qualify for LTR or even FB. Their only intended function is fuck and forget.

47. What do you need to have a 10? Do you need to be a CEO or game, muscles and soft skills are enough?

48. I guess farm girls will never get dates from most guys. Some were quite beautiful naturally where I grew up, it’s just that a dress and high heels and make-up aren’t practical when you’re working from dawn to dusk taking care of the animals and caring for the farm.
    And yet they could cook, work at rates that would give city guys heart-attacks, and knew how to use a wrench to fix a tractor and keep the animals in good condition. They could sew and do all those domestic tasks that others on this sight have posted about being ideal in women. They could hunt and get rid of predators that came after their animals.
    They just only had time to doll up for church or for special events. Otherwise, they were too busy running the farm. They were nit and grit women. It’s funny though. A lot of men actually, despite their lack of dolling up, were quite drawn to them.

    1. That’s because they acted like women and knew their place. They weren’t trying to be men.

    2. Being in a dress or heels is not what makes you attractive or beautiful. A 3 in heels is just a ….3 in heels. A 10 in her sweats is still a 10.
       They just only had time to doll up for church or for special events.
       And what did they look like then? I’m guessing the beautiful ones looked beautiful when they cleaned up, meaning they knew how to do their hair, makeup, and could make the dress or heels and skirt work.
       No one said women need to walk around in miniskirts and heels 100% of the time. We do want women who can do it when its called for, and even occasionally when it’s not required (ie, going out to eat or something).
       You don’t give men enough credit. Men will find a beautiful, feminine woman even if she’s covered in mud with her hair plastered down, wrestling a stray piglet to the ground so she can bring it back to the barn.

       1. Yes mud wrestling but preferably with another very beautiful woman.

       2. I agree that most men would. It’s just the writer of this article wrote about women needing to doll up all the time or that’s a sign the women are “lazy”.
          So I’m more of just arguing with his premise. I’m pretty sure a lot of men would love down to earth women. A lot of men did as most of these women are married now and in quite stable relationships. There husbands respect them. I mean what guy wouldn’t like a lady who can change her own tires and knows what it means when the oil light is on.
          I just disagree with the writer’s premise that not dolling up means a woman is lazy. Farm don’t doll up because they’ve got others to take care of. Like that field of hay isn’t going to harvest itself.

49. Really? This is funny and unrealistic. I’m beginning to wonder what is it you guys want? An 8-9-10 stepford wife kewpie doll? I like brass, sass, personality and intelligence. Athleticism is a plus too. Don’t have the notch count some of you guys claim but for me what you guys would consider plain, with a nice body based on individual bone type, above average intelligence but not too bright. The high IQ ones tend to hard core feminism. In addition a positive personality and be a good listener. Good conversation is a major turn on for me. Women like the above have turned out to be the most satisfying in all ways for me. I think that many of the 8-9-10s you guys crave would bore me to tears. Also have little interest in me no doubt.

    1. Most of what the write is contradictory as well..

       1. No one here gives a shit what you think….attention whore…beat it —————————>

          1. After you..If that’s the best you have, I’ll hold the door open.

50. There is a paradigm not discussed enough in the manosphere, that people must bear in mind:
    banging REGULARLY 7+ women is RARE, on a global scale.
    Further, your looks (without taking into account ony game, and not other factors as money) can only get you so much.
    You don’t have to have a harem of 5 8+ girls to have a great life.
    Banging 7- girls if you have a SMV of 5 is nothing to be ashamed of.

    1. Agreed.

51. The majority of men will brag they’ve been fortunate enough to get with at least one nine. An 8 and higher, a guy is willing to put up with a lot more shit than he normally would. She could be a total ass to him and the guy will deal with her (at least for a little while) because he is blinded by her beauty and bangin’ body. I tried out a few dating websites where the majority of the women are 7 and up http://www.tempted.com

    1. Is that a site for high end escorts?

       1. No, it’s a new dating site. There are a lot of good looking women of there, that’s for sure.

52. Coco Chanel famously said that.

53. There is no such thing as an ugly girl, just a lazy one.
    So true. Most girls who are not whales, have hair long enough to put into a pony tail and wear an appropriate amount of makeup are a 6 or higher. If she doesn’t have snaggle teeth (a personal pet peeve) and a bulbous nose in addition to the aforementioned characteristics, she’s probably a 7 and could likely be an 8 based on personal preference. It’s not that hard for women. Sadly half of them can’t get past the first requirement. I make it a point to look at the faces of fatties whenever I see them out – usually grocery stores and other food establishments. Most of them would not be ugly if it weren’t for the chin rolls and Pillsbury cheeks. Such a shame.

    1. It’s much easier to spout this nonsense of “accepting me as I am” feminist narrative versus actually getting in shape, eating right or dressing up once in awhile.
       Women are great at rationalizing any bullshit to fit their needs.

54. Great article. Why in the world would a real man work so hard on his masculinity, by keeping himself fit and secure financially, only to date women of lower standards?

55. One problem with this article: It leaves YOU out. How about an even simpler guide? STOP DEMEANING WOMEN and pick a girl who’s as attractive as YOU. If you’re not attractive yourself, why would a girl want to be with you? Is it because she can’t resist the way you dehumanize women by labeling them with numbers? Also, why do you think that it’s okay to have a sexual relationship with a girl that you don’t think is attractive? To get experience?!?? Really? That’s not as important as people make it out to be. You can “get experience” without someone who you actually respect. Doing anything else simply shows weakness. And it’s really funny that you consider it okay for you to go having one night stands and friends with benefits, but at the same time, you make it a point to say that it’s great if women have only slept with 3 guys in their lives. Extra points. Double standard much? Listen here…none of your relationships are going to last too long if you see the relationship as something that is supposed to be for you for to make you happy. They only work when there’s a mutual effort to serve and to validate another person whom you admire and consider equal to yourself in not only looks but intelligence, attitude, heart, etc. The problem on our culture is that we don’t see that. We never think of what we can do for someone else but what someone else can do for us. It’s this animalistic game in which we are seeking to get what we want and leave when we are no longer getting it. There’s more to humanity than that tho…It would be extremely depressing if that’s all there was. Sorry about the ranting.

    1. Anyone here give a shit what this snowflake thinks?
       Yeah, I didn’t think so…..beat it —————————>

       1. Ah, so I type out a response that’s actually thoughtful, and this is your response, which I am to presume totally trumps my argument on the basis that you demean me by calling me a “snowflake”, use profanity, and that no one actually responded to your rhetorical question.
          Well done.
          Now, I am going to assume that in not responding to my argument in any constructive way, you are subconsciously acknowledging that it’s wrong to strip someone of one’s individuality on the basis on one’s sex.

          1. Beat it, attention whore. I can’t help it if your boyfriend, daddy or other doesn’t pay attention to you.
             Driver is busy driving the bus…and he just left your ass off at the door ————————>

56. In the real word, most guys don’t have much options. Here what I observed:
    – If you are in the top 1% of men (i.e. rich and famous), you will have 8+ girls in rotation;
    – If you have good looks and knows game, you will have a harem of 5-7 and will bang a 8+ from time to time but you won’t keep her;
    – If you are an averadge guy, 8+ will be out of reach, 5-7 will give you a hard time and you can possibly end up with a 1-4.
    – If you are ugly, have low self-esteem and don’ enven understand game, you will be lucky to find a 1-4.

57. Speaking from experience, I should advice against LTR’ing a 9 or a 10. Why? Simple: You will be your whole life with her looking over your shoulder, she will get hit on by rich and famous guys regularly. Do you feel able to cope or compete? Will she be able to resist? It’s like living in Temptation Island for her.

58. Hahahaha I love this.

59. Female recipe for a clichè Tinder profile:
    Start off with a pseudo-intellectual quote that sounds like fortune cookie dialogue.
    Say something worn-out like “I live in the gym!” or “The gym is my drug!” even though you’ve only had a membership for six months.
    Then say you love traveling and travel brag by showcasing pictures of your token White people’s pilgrimage to good ol’ Christian and safe Europe.
    Show your most “flattering” spandexed-out gym selfie followed by a seatbelt selfie.
    Then wait.

60. Leave all the hot chicks to the gym bros like me, fatties like you don’t get anywhere past the 5’s. Think your gonna score once your 40 and established, those 20 years don’t want to date a 300 pound wrinkly ass walrus. Until you’ve got my body stay out of my waters.

61. >A lot of this stems from what I consider one of the biggest realizations a man can make with respect to game and women—and that is the abundance mentality. Once you realize there is not only a sea of women out there, but a fucking massive ocean’s worth you will understand that if this 6 doesn’t want to come right over and fuck, another one will. Save your time and efforts of dating for a girl that brings you the visual pleasure you require, meeting the minimum aesthetics necessary for a relationship. At that point you can then determine if she has the other qualities sufficient to engage in such a relationship.
    remembering this. some days man they get in your head though

62. This is a great article for us females! The last sentence is so true! I have been a six or seven most of my life but I am going to work hard to get to an eight so I can maybe finally land that LTR I have always wanted

63. The major flaw in this ridiculous article is that the men wanting to have a woman in the higher categories need to live up the standards of the women as well…This poses a problem for most of the men on this website considering they are probably in the 1-2 categories, meaning none of you will ever find a woman in the higher categories… Awkward.

64. The problem with this ridiculous article is that even though men may want a woman in the higher categories, the men have to equal the standards of those women as well. Since the all of the men on this website are most likely in the 1-2 category, they probably wouldn’t be able to pull any women in the higher categories..awkward. Sorry men, stuck with your right hand ( ;

    1. How clueless you are about what type of men are on this site….

65. this is seriously hilarious has it ever occurred to you guys that most of you fall on the 1-6 scale? if you’re waiting around for an 8, 9, or 10 you’d better be super hot yourself, as well as financially secure and charming. im laughing my ass off.

    1. Not only am I super hot, but well off financially too. I won’t be marrying you or anyone else so you can stop laughing now.
       You can be my chew toy until I tire of you though….

       1. nah, im gonna keep laughing.

    2. So what

66. Good article, but it seems to overlook one very important part of the equation – a woman’s behavior, personality, energy, etc… which can greatly enhance her overall hotness or take away from it and turn an 8 into a 5. There are 9’s out there who are total feminatzi bitches who will argue and challenge you on everything. Many of the corporate spinster we are complaining about are very fit, attractive and they certainly know how to dress. Law Dogger is a lawyer so I am sure he know exactly what I am talking about. These are the same women who will ruin your experience in bed with them and will make you wish you jerked off while fantasizing about their body and face without ever finding out how shitty their personality is. On the other hand – the are 7’s whose feminine energy, behavior, voice and skills in bed will make you want to come back over and over. I am not saying that a 2 or a 3 can become an 8 or a 9 by virtue of who she is on the inside, but before taking a 9 over a 7.5 or an 8, you better make sure that you are also upgrading or at least not downgrading in the personality and behavior departments.

67. PRICK

68. If I wasn’t so sure you were all dropped as kids I’d be ashamed to be the same gender/race as you. If all you see is girls for their looks good fucking luck because everybody gets old and unattractive, if you lot aren’t already. I’m surprised you can live your life so oblivious and ignorant.

69. As much as I wish every man adhered to this, the reality is so many thirsty men are hitting on 5s and below, the average unattractive woman thinks she’s the sexiest thing on the planet. And is regularly banging 9s and 10s of men. I don’t see this trend in society reverting back to normalcy anytime soon.

70. This was a good old fun article. The feminist, manginas and white knights are going to love it.
    I would openly say I jacked off before having sex with someone I wouldn’t want to be seen with or even known I had sex with. I would just go with out

71. lol at wifing/lonterm GFing 8/9/10’s in today’s world. it’s begging to be cucked hardcore every month (ovulation). smartphones, hookup culture & social media has ruined 99.99999% of any remotely attractive girls.
    Plate but never wife/commit.

72. Hahaha! Well done mr! Well done indeed. I had several laughs during my time reading your witty remarks, all of them rather loud I might add.
    Anyway, before commenting on the contents of the article I should mention that I am not an American, I’m Swedish, I’m not a man, I’m a lady. That being said you should understand that I have no concept of what you guys over there really mean by using the word “fat” person in general. I mean, I’ve been in the states several times and you guys are either so fat you can’t walk, ugly enough to crack a mirror, average in your country but barely that from our standard. Then of course we have the only good looking people of your blessed nation, namely those whom we see on tv, in magazines etc – the 10s. I mean, there are no exceptions?!
    Sure – there are those who aspire to fall into the latter but aren’t quite gifted enough so they end up stalking or cluttering around the 10s (too be seen in city’s such as LA.) My deduction of the American people is of course flawed the same way as your splendid calculations above; there are discrepancies. I must however add that during my time in the states my normal rating of my darlings belonging to the opposite sex started sinking day by day, after a week I was lost. I got home 4 weeks later; ta da! It rose.
    Advice for all manly Americans;
    – STOP!!! And I really mean stop! Wearing too big suits!! It breaks my heart to see that..
    – Get some fashion sense! My God! My old grandmother (bless her soul) had way better fashion state in her late 70s during -98 than most of you guys do today..
    – Get another haircut than a military one…. It’s sad.
    – for all those who can’t shape yourself up by that you are either chubby/overweight/fat/obese/morbidly obese or suffering from some type of bad luck in the genes that built up your facial area.. blame your parents for condemning you to such a fate and have them pay for some plastics!
    Anyway! Loved the article mr attorney. And I might add.. I hope you are as hot as you apparently fancy yourself to be! I can’t find a single picture… either you’re scared for your identity or you’re plain and simply not good looking enough to make any remarks at all and know it! I still hope to find that American guy to swipe me of my feet but 4 months searching different states and cities leaves me thinking they just aren’t out there. That man only exist on the frame!

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