Collectivism has a pretty bad name in certain circles, particularly Libertarians and related currents. Indeed, it’s led to some past excesses, including totalitarianism. Still, it’s really like an implement that can be used either constructively or destructively. Hyper-individualism has its flaws too. To paraphrase an old joke, an anarchist who gets mugged calls the police.
What does collectivism mean?
Toilet paper ration lines – a good indication that they’re doing it wrong
Ayn Rand wrote quite negatively about it, including the following:
Collectivism means the subjugation of the individual to a group—whether to a race, class or state does not matter. Collectivism holds that man must be chained to collective action and collective thought for the sake of what is called “the common good.”
The more neutral dictionary definition is:
1: a political or economic theory advocating collective control especially over production and distribution; also: a system marked by such control
2: emphasis on collective rather than individual action or identity
The related term “statism” specifically pertains to big government. Tribalism relates to ethnic solidarity.
Granted, there’s much to say for rugged individualism, self-sufficiency, and especially pulling one’s own weight in society. Still, tribalism is a natural human instinct. The cavemen who survived the Ice Age weren’t “doing their own thing” and caring nothing for their tribes. Likewise, the cavewomen weren’t constantly touting their own strength and independence. After Rome fell (much more recently), a paradise without statism didn’t emerge. To survive the Dark Ages, individuals had to pull together for their kingdom, city-state, or barbarian tribe.
Rousseau’s utopian notions concerning ancient mankind in the state of nature weren’t grounded in reality. Tribalism served a purpose: survival. It’s mistaken to believe modern easy living made this obsolete.
Going it alone has its limits
Red Dawn was a good movie, but you’re in trouble if it comes to this
Nearly every political philosophy defines active roles for the government, the community, and individuals. The main debate is where to draw the lines. Even Libertarians want collective defense. Although they might dislike neocon foreign adventures and wasteful defense contracts, most still want a competent military. It’s difficult to stop an enemy invasion if you’re alone defending the beach with your Saturday Night Special.
Sometimes joining with others sharing coordination and unity of purpose is absolutely necessary. Imagine playing a basketball game with just you against five opponents. Even a team of eighth graders could defeat the most ruggedly individualistic sportsman. Suppose your team was permitted ten players on the court, but the others neither participated nor cared about the outcome. That wouldn’t help; you’d still lose to five opponents working together.
Taking this further, suppose two of your teammates say they want to win, but mostly complain that you’re playing too aggressively. Four more stand around goofing with their smart phones. The opposing coach (a clever bastard) convinced the last three that winning is dreadfully unfair, so they block you and help the other team. The referee keeps giving you bogus fouls, while your opponents get away with anything. If that happened, your team of ten—in which you’re the only one really trying—could be defeated even by five mentally challenged midgets.
That’s pretty absurd, right? Nobody plays sports that way. Unfortunately, that’s basically today’s political scene. Hopefully everyone’s getting the analogy about lukewarm conservatives, the apathetic, and liberals duped into defeating themselves.
The greatest dispute in the Alt Right / Alt Lite split is ethnic nationalism versus civic nationalism. Most Alt Lites know the score, but have misgivings about collectivism, or fear the “basket of deplorables” label. Thus, they carefully debate only within “acceptable” topics, playing by leftist-approved rules. It’s the same thing that’s hamstrung mainstream conservatism for decades. However, the left certainly has no such fine scruples. Actually, it goes well beyond ethnic nationalism, as other categories got brought into the picture.
Double standards and doubletalk
When political correctness (late-stage cultural Marxism) entered the picture, protected groups were strongly encouraged to think collectively. Feminism seeks to turn women against men, gays became another radicalized class, etc. Now, it’s a bewildering picture, with made-up terms thrown around like cisheteronormativity, ageism, lookism, etc. Meanwhile, everyone else was told that having collective consciousness is unfair, prejudiced, wrong—basically “deplorable”.
Protected groups got new commemorative days, awareness weeks, and even entire months to celebrate their history and “raise consciousness”. By itself, that’s fairly innocuous. However, designated “oppressor” groups have their histories misrepresented and even erased.
Protected groups have countless organizations, from small clubs in schools and offices to well-funded major national outfits. They’re certainly free to organize; nobody’s saying that’s wrong. However, when disfavored “oppressors” try to further their interests, that’s called “hate” or some “-ist” or “-phobic” word. If they get any publicity at all, it’s bitterly negative. Daring to stand up for themselves—even if their long-term survival is threatened—is portrayed as something evil.
Less innocuous are hiring quotas, contract set-asides, and other rent-seeking measures amounting to legalized graft. (The left discusses “privilege” endlessly; those things are real privilege.) Beyond that are special rights, like laws granting extra protections. “Hate crime” legislation doesn’t penalize protected group members; if they commit crimes, either they had rough childhoods, or the “oppressors” deserved it. Many “free” countries even have laws against criticizing protected groups, or disputing their version of history.
Further, heavy pressure to conform is provided by the media, education, institutions, and even big businesses pushing this world view and suppressing dissent. All the hypocrisy is as rotten as a decaying carcass, of course. Encouraging some groups to think collectively, while making it a taboo for others, is like demanding someone to fight with an arm tied behind his back.
It’s hard to imagine anything more absurd, but this is politics since the 1960s. Feminism became the great Shit Test that society failed. The gays should’ve been familiarized with the word “no” by the 1990s. The trannies should’ve been told to grow a pair.
Population replacement policies are the most troublesome. When we’re told “Your DNA is an abomination“, that’s a problem. It’s also a problem when others openly gloat expecting our demise—while not realizing they’re sinking their own ship, or that they’re sadly perpetuating a long tradition of giving their own ethnic group a bad name. Do we need further evidence that those wanting to wreck Western civilization don’t have our best interests at heart? Should we agree to play the game by their rules, which means not at all?
The final word
This is what indoctrination does.
The individualism versus collectivism narrative is a false dichotomy. One definition of justice is the proper balance between individual interests and community interests; it’s not an “either/or” proposition. Regarding statism, there certainly are good arguments for limited government. The greatest one is that it reduces damage by the Deep State and bumbling bureaucrats. The greater problem there is obvious.
Further, the leftist pipe dream of utopian multicultural harmony isn’t attainable, especially since not all groups are expected to reject tribalism. Neither is their dysfunctional global melting pot really desirable, nor their efforts to create a unisex society.
If collectivism means goofy economic policies and sending people to gulags for merely disagreeing, I’m against those things. However, using an instinctive means of survival that everyone else is using (sometimes very militantly) makes sense. It’s time to stop fighting with an arm tied behind our backs.
Read More: 6 Reasons Why I Gave Up On Libertarianism
The only good and necessary collectivisms are those based on religion , common culture and traditions and blood ties . Collectivism based on ideologies like Marxism , Nazism ect is trash , dangerous and leads to the enslavement of men.
Feminism leads to the enslavement of men, not Na-zi-ism. Na-zi-ism was a response from Wiemar Germany to send the Hebrews and Khazars to Is-rael.
You got that right my friend! Gews were sent to Palestine and they temporarily stayed inside work camps, not gas chambers or death chambers!
https://listverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/ten-e1372462725254.jpg
A deal was made between Germany and Britain to ship these imposter Gews to Palestine because like rats and vermin, Gews were welcome into Germany, but they created Wiemar-like conditions and trouble for the Volk of Germany. Look at what these imposter Gews are doing to Palestinians in Palestine.
National Socialism = “based on religion , common culture and traditions and blood ties”
Clark ,
Nazim operates just like Communism , hence the Socialism part they have in common. Same propaganda-censure institutions and tactics. No freedom of speech and thought. You’re still cucked by the supreme leader’s portrait hanging on your wall , whom your wife worships like God. Even if their end goals are different , Nazism is still a leftist ideology in my book. Right-wing = my land , my guns, my house is my castle and I am king and the state should fuck off. The only authority above a man as a patriarch in his family and his lands should be God.
Muh constitution
I agree that Libertarianism is ideal, but it is untenable in the conditions of modern America going forward.
Whether we like it or not, a multinational democracy will lead to competing political blocs divided on ethnic lines.
When whites are 30% of America’s population, you can kiss your libertarian dreams goodbye.
It really doesn’t matter if you call me a cuck or not… this is what’s up now.
If libertarianism is untenable , than nazism has no chance in hell. By pushing for nazism you just provide the left with deadly ammunition. In my humble opinion , a better strategy would be to achieve libertarianism and let the left degenerates dry out. They are just parasites who can’t survive without the deep state on their side.
I just don’t understand why so many American (white) Nationalists worship Nazi Germany , when pre 1950′ America is the superior model. A libertarian society with some good ol’ colonial racial segregation would be ideal.
If 6 million Gews died in Germany, then why are these Gews happy on the day they were being sent to Palestine?
https://www.scrapbookpages.com/OldPhotos/dachau01.jpg
The Holohoax never existed and for a Gew to tell you about the Holohoax is a liar.
What Trump should do on immigration is to say it must be politically balanced. This gets rid of the democrats trying to flood the country to win elections. Have the immigrants tested and require 50% to be Republicans, and 50% to be dems of migrants entering across all visas. That is the minimum that should be done.
I am sure it would be mostly whites who’d enter as the republicans.
Nazism was a gay pagan cult.
thats why its still popular in the ((west))
Nicole Turcotte was a feminist at Humber College who was close friends with Chanty Binx, who lives in Mississauga, Ontario.
A Muslim caused a yuge accident pile up and a truck of peace crushed her from behind. One less femin4zi in Canada:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/qew-crash-arrest-made-1.4525950
If the driver was white instead of arab, the shit would break loose. Everyone would be blaming a non-existent white patriarchy for any road accident.
But, as you can see, everything is pretty quiet.
Not sure why Roosh is afraid of the Gews, but here is a 3rd attempt on my comment.
If the accident victim was a filthy Gew fembot, all hell would break loose. Gews in Canada are aristocracy. If you offend a Gew like Arthur Topham or Dr. James Sears, you end up in litigation and forced to remove your website!
These lowlife Gews are only 2% of our population in America, and why doesn’t the 98% expel these lowlifes to the North Pole?
6 Million?
– 1 actual death from automobile accident?
5,999,999 that needs to be verified as true?
Imagine being so disgusting and repulsive to the rest of humanity that you must legislate laws to stop people from hating you.
there comes a time
when you can’t run
from the truth about
other groups and the
inferiority they infect
the rest of society with.
Even if they make more
shekels than the others.
We’ve seen the end result
before: total destruction.
We’ve seen it on the island
of San Monique (Haiti)
J WRIGHT
Actually these groups punish themselves when whites flee because the GDP sinks and the tax base shrivels like a penis in ice water.
No need for some brave race war Cowboys and Indians or Shaka Zulu-style.
5 years after the last Caucasian leaves, a city or country resembles, well, Haiti.
That’s Poland in the 1980s on the first picture.
Gentleman
The United States has always been too ethnically diverse to possess enough of a common culture to unite Mississippi Blacks and French-Canadians from Vermont and Japanese-Americans from the West Coast under some “Blood and Soil” Collectivism.
There is a strong regional antipathy between West Coasters and East Coasters-the former regarding the latter as a shabby faux Europe and the latter regarding the former as stoned hippies playing hacky-sack outside a granola bar factory.
Only the most base consumerism unites them.
That’s not true at all. Watch a movie from anytime before 1965 and you’ll peer through a window at a self confident nation with a shared, unique culture. Music, poetry, dance, architecture…there were distinctly American modes of thought and expression taking shape. All that started to change after the 1965 Immigration Act. For decades now we’ve been busily importing as many people as we can from cultures as alien to ours as possible. No country in history has voluntarily undergone as rapid a demographic change as we have. It is unsustainable and has gutted our culture.
My view is that racial tensions occur when different different groups like together. Everybody in an enthnostate like Japan or Europe until recently was fairly antiracist. You cannot acquire hatred, distrust, or even begin to accept any form of racial realism if you live in an ethnostate, or an ethnically homogenous part of your nation.You have no reason to doubt the narrative given to you.
Those living in multiracial areas quickly become racist wether i the South or in South Africa.
If anything the issues with Jews in Europe and the rise of Nazism is a critique of multiculturalism because the conflicts over economics, women and power will always create issues. As America gets move diverse the tensions are building hugely and as the groups begin to try to reduce white power they are bound to rise.
Why would any state without all of these issues wish to import them and become a tinder box and filled with racism and the far-right?
I have seen very few white men who didn’t grow up around black people who are racist against them. I have rarely met one who was raised around then who doesn’t hate them.
Socialism in Multi-Racial Societies
I’m not sure that collectivism can work in a multi-racial society because socialism essentially sees the country as a family.
This is well-nigh impossible in multi-racial societies.
Multi-racial societies can exist until their economy is fine.
Once economies are bad, societies split into ethnic gangs which are prepared to viciously massacre each other to get a better access for better sustenance.
Multiracial societies fail far more often than they succeed. History has nasty habit of repeating. Every era is a new paradigm to some and yet history stil repeats.
If you have a multi-ethnic state you have to try and make it work. You should never voluntarily enter into one. When you have one avoiding civil war becomes the governments main objective.
Collectivism and the R/K reproduction strategy
In countries with strong social safety nets there were always a few derelicts, junkies and winos on welfare. But few Finnish or Japanese women wanted to reproduce with obscenely drunk losers on a public charity.
It seems to be different with tropical and subtropical people. Males on welfare in the hood will collect a veritable concubine of women to impregnate, whereas an ethnic Swedish vodka drunk in his filthy bottle-strewn apartment could not.
Since European women are now going into the refugee camps to have sex with African males I can only assume that males with Alpha status like blacks can dramatically affect the sexual behavior of females.
White Americans, in my opinion, are somewhat divergent.
The United States attracted European peasants of the hardiest stock and a few Alpha rogues so genetic Germans in Austin Texas or French in Louisiana seem more masculine and less Beta.
Therefore in New Orleans you will see less minorities impregnating white French-Catholic girls than in Paris. There will be some, of course.
But these girls are often the whales, druggies, low-class coarse sluts.
In America they don’t get with Africans so much because its dog eat dog and nobody will help you if you get abandoned. Socialism gets rid of that. Far more women date Africans in socialist states. Also they have little knowledge of them and their ways so believe that there is no difference other than racism until they find themselves abandoned. America had a red-pilled culture until recently about race and so everybody has some knowledgeable grandparent or father to warn the women about what will likely befall them.
boobya
I am dating Paula Patton. She is pregnant by me.
Collectivism is fine if you live in a country like Finland where 98% of your countrymen are of the same race and culture as you are. But its fucking stupid to talk collectivism in this country. Whites have been beaten down for at least two generations now and by the time my kids are adults they’ll not even be in the majority anymore. We’ll all just be wolves chasing after an increasingly small flock of sheep. Why the hell should my kids or I feel any obligation to look after some orc from Nigeria or a troll from El Salvador. They don’t care about me and I don’t care about them.
When Collectivists finally decide that mandatory birth control and no immigration is necessary for the good of everyone, I’ll listen. Until then, they are my enemy.
May God send wildfire onto this vile Gewish W.H.O.R.E.S memorial. I wouldn’t even piss on this grave if it were set on fire! To hell with these Gewish imposters!!!!!
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Anne_frank_memorial_bergen_belsen.jpg
I don’t give a fu*k what a Gew, Abe F0xm4n or any Internationalische Sionist thinks of me. Once America collapses under Wiemar like conditions, Ernst Zundel’s prophecy will come true. Not even pasty Mu9zies running innocent civilians with Gew1sh owned trucks and cars will stop the backlash against each and every one of you fu$king Gews who are pillaging America while promoting cultural [email protected] to destroy our country.
Edit: Roosh are you scared of that Ratface vermin AbeF0xm4n? God will send these Gews to burn in hell and die spiritually in a real fire for eternity.
The (((elites))) become immensely powerful and solidify their (((tribe))) at the top by convincing their enemies to be individualist dreamers they can manipulate and herd like cattle.
Globalization especially in the West with its multi cult and what-not has all but essentially made sure a strong collective group could ever form to overthrow their dominance.
I’m not a Hitler fan but his views of the Jewish internationalists pervasive power was indeed correct and we are seeing that come to fruition now.
lol my fairly benign point got yanked and then all these holocaust denials got allowed. My view as a non-jew is that to get that many people to lie about it without anybody once admitting it was a lie/conspiracy is unlikely. To get hundreds of thousands to lie isn’t likely. They aren’t as a group that coordinated or even close and any conspiracy of even a thousand would get a few to admit the truth. They then must have all told their children about it and lied to their friends and other family members.
The numbers could be off although I haven’t looked into it but all these suggestions that it was a lie aren’t believably to any rational man and undermine the valid points we have about trying to fight to defend our people and civilization. I speak my mind and many hate that since it can be considered racist but the holocaust is as likely to be true as anything in history. I mean Hitler did discuss these types of killings before he got to power, and they then did try and cover for it as much as possible.
Prove it to me. Count from 1 to 6 million. You will never find 6 million Jooos in concentration camps in the entire Germany-occupied European countries. NEVER! If any Joos did die, it was because of war, and not any policy of genocide. Mein Fuhrer only wanted deportation of these vile scum Jooos out of Germany. Mein Fuhrer never intended to extermine anyone.
Only people capable of succeeding on their own are able to join together and work together as a team. A team or chain is only as strong as its weakest link, if all the links are strong, i.e. they are capable on their own as well as a team, there is no breaking the chain.
Collectivism accepts and rewards weakness. It says some or all need help. If one can’t do their job on a team that means someone else has to help them, leaving that someone else’s responsibilities lacking as well.
Don’t conflate collectivism with being part of a team or a tribe. They are not the same. You can still be an individual as part of a team. You have simply agreed to work together with other people to achieve a common goal. This is not the same as some dictatorship forcing you to work towards their goals on pain of death.
why on earth would my comments on anthony sutton’s view of collectivism have been removed? Are only caricatured criticisms of certain ideas allowed.
Collectivism is fine as long as it is voluntary. Coercion has no place in a free society.
Of course not. It is the soul and ball crushing levels of collectivism that is wrong. Collective effort as in teams of Men doing everything from exploring, hunting, combat, building stuff, destroying stuff, battling opponents is sports etc. etc are glorious and soul uplifting.
To paraphrase an old joke, when Johnny Rotten got sued by one of his drummers, he went to Judge Judy.
The (((empire))) is reliant upon the taxes and hard work of white men. Don’t join any Government agency, don’t race mix and look for ways to bleed the tax and welfare system – legally of course. Death by a thousand cuts.
That may just be the only way the common man can bring this fucker down.
I have bluepilled white friends that actually get upset and stressed about exploiting the system. Boy Scouts.
Sure this is a good quality in a homogenous white country of old but you’re now supporting and carrying the weight of multicultural hell where every non white group is out for themselves, gib me dats and to rob your country dry.
Stop busting your balls for these parasites and let it crumble.
The Internationalist Jooo will still live in fabulous luxury at 5th Avenue, Paris, London, Frankfurt and Barcelona.
These fucking vermin are raping your nation dry! How can you have dual-citizens loyal to occupied Palestine governing your Congress?
Six Million
Lot’s of people are Dual Citizens. I am. If the shit goes downhill I do not want to be stuck like the South African Boers.
Voluntary Collectivism is fine. It’s when the collective demands participation and loyalty on the threat of coercion is where you should go fuck yourself.
One of the reasons the US is collapsing now is that Americans think that decay will be stopped by becoming Fascists and Communists.
Americans think the US will be improved by expanding wars, increasing the debt, and adding more tyranny when the reason the USA is crashing is because the US has wars, is in debt, and has a police state.
Americans say that they love freedom, but then they turn around and say they need the government to give them free Obamacare, build a wall, protect the US from Yemen, wiretap their phones, arrest people for feeding the homeless, stop farmers from plowing fields, force people to get rid of dogs, ban vaping, and torture suspects.
Every country has the government it deserves.
“protect the US from Yemen!”
Sure, Arabs are going to parachute out of helicopters swinging scimitars in Idaho.
Protect Israel’s interests. Merica is a big dumb cuck.
DEXTER
You’d be hard-pressed to find an Asian-American on the West Coast who had a single clue where that country even was.
For all the talk of 1965 Immigration Reforms because the 1925 was enacted to stop the mafia acquiring the power that it possessing Palermo through Southern Italian immigration and the average post-1965 Immigrant is an Asian or Indian who does not give one solitary shit about JOOZE.
They have no interest at all because Asians and Indians and ethnic whites are used to stupid government levies.
when asked about a word of wisdom on the last road,my grandfather say only one thing :
‘never trust women’.
collectivism cant make stupid people to be smart,but cam make smart people to be stupid.
cant make poor people to become rich ,but can transform rich people into poor ones.
collectivism is about equality ,equally poor and stupid.
it cant make people equally rich and smart .
of course the result of collectivism is always dictatorship ,poverty ,torture and hunger.
collectivist want a global north Korea ,when only one person have everything ,while the rest are suffering slaves for sadistic enjoyments of the dictator ,medical experiments ,excessive labor etc.
Yes, I am a woman… but funnily enough, I agree with your other sentiments here!
Collectivism gets results, not the ‘every man for himself’ way.
I am a collectivist to the extent that I understand that we need other people, and that much of life’s satisfaction comes from working with, and for the benefit of the group. I am an individualist to the extent that I believe that the group should not cannibalize its own (and thereby harming itself). The individual should also have as much room as possible to make use of his potential both for his own benefit (so that he has an incentive to put forward effort and take risks) and the benefit of his circle, his family, friends, relatives, community, nation, and so on.
yet many want to be cucked by fictional entities like God, Jesus, etc
“If collectivism means goofy economic policies and sending people to gulags for merely disagreeing, I’m against those things”
No, in collectivism people are sent to gulags or concentration camps for being part of the WRONG identity group. Their individual reality as a person is considered irrelevant or secondary to the ‘crime’ their group is considered to have committed- in the Kulak’s case it was being a part of the ‘dangerous oppressive class system’.
A lot of what you describe in the article is conflating normal human tendencies for social organization and the inevitable tension between personal freedom of action and the demands of keeping a community functioning and in some kind of order.
Collectivism ultimately dispenses with that tension: Individual identity is seen as something of a myth. Your group identity is the only thing that really matters. This frees you from the pain of having to deal the complexities of your individual psyche as well. (why it continues to be so appealing)
As a bonus you also do this to other ‘out groups’. But this time it has the effect of de-humanizing them. This then makes it easier to treat them as ‘abstract categories’- dangerous threatening ones that cause all the problems.
Now you have a complete package for avoiding all the pains of the human condition. No wonder it still proves to be such a perennially popular route.