There is much fear within the manosphere regarding the potential for the spread of American style feminism to other parts of the world. Many have voiced concerns that soon there will be “no escape” from this ideology because it will have taken hold in every society around the globe, “polluting” every culture.
This, I contend, is not a realistic scenario, a fact that becomes clearer when you analyze the reasons for the rise of this ideology.
The Necessary Condition
The primary roadblock to the expansion of American style feminism beyond a trivial level in many cultures is that other men simply do not put up with the kind of things that their American counterparts are willing to tolerate. This is important because men must agree to accept feminist imperatives before they can take hold.
The women who brought about the major shift towards the feminine imperative that we saw here in the USA during the latter half of the 20th century were not able to do this because of their physical strength or social dominance. It was their men (who controlled all major political, economic and social structures in American society) who allowed their aims to come into law and gain social legitimacy, and have largely allowed for this legitimacy to grow in recent decades.
The feminine imperative absolutely requires male acquiescence to start making headway. Put simply, men have to be willing to listen to its proponents and then allow their desires to come to fruition.
The Acquiescence of the American Male
In the USA, this is all a given because men here worship their women and define themselves in the context of their ability to satisfy the feminine imperative. American men allow their women to badmouth them in public with no consequences, flake with no consequences, and cheat/cuckold their men with no consequences.
They emasculate themselves in the media and in their personal lives in order to amuse their women. When women here behave/dress/speak in a more masculine manner or plump up, men here accept it and excuse it. When women here begin shaming men for being men and try to force them to adhere to the feminine imperative (example: talking down a guy in his mid-30’s for seeing a woman in her early-mid 20’s), men here capitulate and accept it, and even occasionally begin shaming one another for failing to do the same.
Women here know they can basically behave in any way they please and still have reasonably decent men willing to get with them and even praise them, while the legal system (still run largely by men while its laws are enforced primarily by men) enables much of that behavior. Men are desperate to please them, and will go to war for the right to white knight for an even moderately attractive woman.
As much as some men here complain about some of the effects of feminism, the reality is that American women are doing only as much as they are allowed. When they are aware of the fact that any complaint they make (no matter how trivial) will be taken seriously on a social level and likely even given some legitimacy in the eyes of the law, what incentive is there for them to be more reasonable? If you could request anything and stand a reasonable chance of getting it, wouldn’t you do so confidently?
When they know they have an army of white knights ready to grant any wish they make, what incentive is there for them not to make the wish?
This is why the Anglosphere is so much worse when it comes to gender dynamics than other parts of the world, at least from a male perspective. It is in these societies that women have the least incentive not to step on male toes, and it is also in these societies that men voluntarily cater the most to the feminine imperative.
Refusal
The rest of the world simply doesn’t have that tolerance. Several Slavic societies are well known for this, but even in parts of Western Europe you do not find the willing acceptance of female obesity and masculinity you see in the USA. In Italy a noted senior-citizen playboy who made little attempt to hide his dalliances with much younger women held onto the Prime Minister’s seat for over a decade. Could you imagine Americans electing a similar character who so openly and shamelessly flaunts his masculinity? A mere blowjob was enough to get Clinton in serious trouble and JFK (probably the closest thing to a modern American Berlusconi we’ve seen) had to keep his affairs under wraps.
Deep down, there isn’t any substantive difference between women here and elsewhere (those who migrate and grow up in the Anglosphere generally prove this by behaving similarly to natives), but in their cultures they simply aren’t allowed to get away with the things their Anglo peers can. Why? Men won’t put up with it. You just rarely see Africans, Caribbeans, many South/West Asians, Slavs, some Mediterraneans or Latinos supplicating en masse in the way that men reliably do in many Anglo nations (particularly the USA). They simply refuse to be shamed and aren’t willing to constantly apologize for being male.
You can’t have American feminism as we know it without extremely apologetic men who are ready to roll over.
The best defense against the kind of anti-male feminism that dominates here in the USA will come from men stepping up, ceasing to roll over and then actually being men, not lap dogs. Women simply won’t respect anything else. Male populations that already do this have little to fear from American feminism so long as they continue. Male populations that fail to do this are their own worst enemy.
Whereas I agree about the attitude of men in America are different then what you find in other non English speaking countries (though its very similar in Scandinavia). I suspect however that feminism’s rise stems from a more sinister entity and agenda: The government.
As more countries become fascists they need to control their population, that is to say the population that matters (read: the male population) so in order to do this they need an excuse, and it the case of the USA powers that be are playing the “protect the women and children” card.
Just look at all the ridiculous laws being passed. Just look at how the judges are allowing paternity fraud to go rampant; an accused man who is proven not the biological father is still required to be financially responsible for a child that is not his. Just look at how the system will make it up as they go along as long as a man is imprisoned. All of these laws are designed to do one thing and one thing only: control men.
The United States still has a lot of power, both militarily and geopolitical, and forces its influence everywhere it goes. As tAmerica becomes a Socialist dictatorship it will prompt other nations to become dictatorship. Feminism is merely one of the tools used to excert tyranny.
So the fate and spread of feminism is really contingent on the liberty of the USA, and as of late, this country is heading down a very ugly path IMHO.
The government is just a PR branch of the corporations.
Some government is good. Would you want to work in s amine without mining inspectors?
I think you are making the situations in far off lands seem better than they really are. If you are in a place with running water and wi-fi you are now dealing with feminism.
Other than that though, I totally agree.
Grest post.
To be fair, major feminist gains came during WWI and Vietnam when men had their minds on more pressing matters, assuming their brains hadn’t been blasted out already
How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb?
Trick questions.
A feminist cannot change a lightbulb because she can’t change dick.
Great post. I have witnessed this firsthand during my travels in South America, Africa and Asia. American men put up with the most BS I have ever seen. It is really sad. There seems to be a social taboo about men dominating women, but frankly most american men are in fear of being locked up, sued, or losing their job and hard earned possessions. If you stand up to a woman, usually nothing will happen because that is the natural order of things. If US Corporations convince men to adapt plastics, contaminated water, BPA, and other toxics, then we may witness similar changes in their behaviors.
http://www.learnvest.com/2012/10/a-guy-confides-i-get-paid-more-than-my-female-coworker/
Yeah that one anecdote really proves a lot. You should write an article on it and submit it to peer-reviewed research journals.
I read it. What does it have to do with this post?
Grown-ups are talking sweetie.
Ta.
That article about some chode admitting he makes more then his female co-worker was made up. It is among many feminist lies that we see everywhere in the mainstream, and unfortunately too the net is rank with feminazi trolls who crosslink and spam on forums of mens issues.
Yeah, I’ve always known it wasn’t lazybones like G. Steinhem or harridans like Kate Millet or whoever that made feminism mainstream. The corporations wanted a cheaper labor force. They got it. Now it takes 2-incomes to do what 1 used to. Lucky us…
no it doesn’t.
my wife has hardly ever worked the whole 14 years I’ve been married. we have a 6bdrm house, 2 kids, 3 cars (1 cost 50k, bought last year) tvs in every room, all the toys my kids can play with and then some, plus a fully furnished house and nearly any trapping of consumerism we could want. all on a average middle class salary. (with NO credit debt except for the house and newest car)
it only takes two incomes when you have no discipline, and a complete inability to use money wisely.
“it only takes two incomes when you have no discipline, and a complete inability to use money wisely.”
There’s 90% of the American population right there…
the necessary conditions for feminism are a democracy and a middle class.
how many parts of the world have you lived in and investigated?
“the necessary conditions for feminism are a democracy and a middle class.”
Yes, but this article is not speaking about feminism in general. Feminism exists in one form or another in every one of the societies I mentioned in that post.
What is at issue here is the spread of a certain kind of feminism, which just happens to be the one most hostile to men and most virulently opposed by the manosphere. To facilitate the rise of American gender feminism, you need to go beyond the creation of democracy and a middle class. There needs to be a certain kind of culture in place to facilitate pedestalization and a mass of men willing to roll over.
This is what makes the difference between Italy (where a shamelessly masculine playboy can become head of state and remain so for decades despite numerous flings) and the USA (where a lone blowjob can be considered grounds for political dismissal and presidents dare not stray from catering to the feminine imperative). Both nations are democracies with a middle class, but you get very different results in each place.
although i agree with your primes, Italy’s doesn’t have a middle class so much as a large ‘government subsidized’ class (or at least it used too).
PREMISE! stupid spell check…
In many ways Feminism is akin to Christianity seeping into diverse pagan cultures and blending in to give rise to varied versions of that same Christianity. What is feminism if not a form of religion like the rest of the Marxist ideology?
From what I could gather from other Manosphere blogs, the wood is rotten. The only thing to do is to learn some Game and let society fall apart.
Interesting take. While I do agree that the average Western guy is a spineless boob who will put up with any manner of abuse if it ensures he gets a satisfactory lay afterwards, I have a different take; Feminism can only thrive in wealthy countries (as wealthy countries are the only ones capable of setting up the broad safety nets and enacting the equalist policies that Feminism requires) and countries with high per-capita GDP (as Feminism is also reliant on the relative purchasing power of women, because if a woman has a lot of money, who needs a man?).
Until every country in the world is a wealthy country with a high per capita GDP, Feminism will not go global; the best we can hope for is that it stays in the West, and as it contributes to the downfall of the anglosphere, it is unable to go beyond a grassroots level in other, rising countries.
This simply isn’t the whole picture. Yes, feminism usually is the strongest in wealthy democracies, but culture constitutes a strong determinant.
If you look in developed Asia (Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, and South Korea), feminism exists in each country but it is not anti-male and hostile. Why? Asian cultures don’t put women on pedestals. In fact, many men see women as inferior (not in a pejorative sense but in a hierarchical sense), and treat women like grown children who don’t require the same responsibilities as men. Moreover, you can see this truth written in the laws of developed Asian countries. In Asian countries, after a divorce, custody usually goes to the father and alimony is only set to let the ex-wife get on her feet (not a lifetime meal ticket). Culture determines law, and the fact is that Asian cultures do not change dramatically and are still patriarchal in nature. China, Japan, and South Korea are some of the oldest continuous civilizations because they did not stray too far from patriarchy for most of their histories. In other words, Asian societies are less dynamic and more traditional at the core.
Look at Japan. It is one of the richest countries in the world with a high gdp per capita, a strong feminist movement that is not anti-male, and some of the luckiest women to have ever lived when it comes to standard of living and opportunities. Feminism hit Japan in the 80’s very quickly and what has the response been? The Herbivore trend of Japanese men refusing to deal with strong, independent women who expect men to still hold traditional roles.
While American men worship women like goddesses and sucker into marriage.
Do you see how important culture plays a role? Feminism arises in rich countries, but its power and influence are shaped by the culture. In other words, despite the fact that Americans tend to laugh and ridicule Asian men for being feminine and submissive, it’s American men who are truly being “feminine” by supplicating to women instead of being leaders.
Latin America, Eastern Europe, the Middle-East, and Africa all are more patriarchal than the West.
I doubt feminism will ever reach America’s gruesome, anti-male rhetoric in other countries. I live in Taiwan where women have equal access to education and jobs, but they do not get fat or spit at men. In fact, a large percentage of the men here are refusing to marry local, modern Taiwanese women and looking to neighboring countries for traditional, feminine women.
totally agree with the both of you
but feminism did ding up asia a lil since the japanese men are becoming herbavore(betas not interested in sex) which is sad…..but i think that weird internet culture too mustve played a role into pussyfiying the younger generation
and taiwan(among other nations) are optin for more traditional woman is gonna stun the fertility rates since theses modern(westernized) women arent worth havin kids with…hence why those nations are greying demographiclly
feminism sure has made lil change cultural but really hurt them demographically
Yeah, the West is greying, developed Asia is greying, and pretty much every rich country is.
At the very least, the experience of men in these rich Asian countries isn’t so terrible and hostile against them.
These countries may have a demographic nightmare just like white countries, but when they do “collapse” they will at least stay mono-racial, mono-cultural, homogenous for the most part. Then, they can rebuild along lines of patriarchy where women aren’t all working jobs.
In other words, they’ll just change dynasties.
Where will the West be?
Islamified…. sadly.
Or maybe Mexicanfied in the US.
In the end, the Chinese will be our masters, and the Muslims and Africans will be the new (and current) Third World.
even in the 3rd world the fertility rates have been declinin as well…like there are campaigns to help only female children and thatll speed up the greyin of their country which isnt good
because the devoloping world needs the people to build the nation(not like immigrants will goto poor countrys)
dont worry the eurabia thing is a myth debunked by bbc….like all immigrants they ted to migrate to main cities(they are never evenly distributed)…uae bahrain singapore malaysia are 1st world muslim nations…saudi will be there in 15 yrs time …western turkey is rich…when thses poor nations become rich they wont migrate…we should stop messin with them
but the west will grow broke…look at the us debt clock…theylll be like italy in 4 yrs
better learn from the isreal its the only country where the birth rates went up…
every country on the planet year be year are havin fewer kids even some of the devoloping world is below 2.11 like exp. iran lebanon(among other) theres like 1.8 or somethin they need the growing workforce since they are not immigrant destination.
you can find all the this on cia world factbook
feminsim has affected every nation on the planet in some way.(thanx to american media politics an influence)….they single handly ruined women across the world
ya the stunned fertility rate in other countrys has happened to brazil(1.82) cuba(1.8 but will be 1st world in 5 yrs),lebanon 1.76, thailand 1.66 , barbados 1.68(newly 1st world),china 1.55,(huge agin popultion but 1 child policy did the trick), albania 1.48 singapore(.78 OMFG)
barhain 1.86 an uzbeistan 1.86(an they are forcibly sterlising women wtf)…qatar 1.93, costa rica an azerbaijian 1.92,,,veitnam 1.89…chile..1.87..tunisa 2.02
these poor countrys are under alot of trouble like us in the west but will face more devasting impact since they are poor….
feminism is really hurting the poor nations…need 2.11
got these from cia world factbook…youll find numerous other nations that are in trouble
true.if it had anything to do with wealth many gulf arab countries/turkey/malaysia would be femenist.
religion/culture makes a huge difference.in Asia Buddhist and confucianist/Daoist culture has a very conservative view on the family,society,and women.
rich islamic countries control their women because of the religion and arab patriarchal culture.
in slavic countries the Orthodox church influenced the culture to be masculine,and patriarchal
Christianity in the west(and also pre-christian Celtic society wich was Matriarchal )has effiminated men.it was Germanic and celtic societies wich made femenism because even in the ancient times they were matriarchal)
“Women here know they can basically behave in any way they please and still have reasonably decent men willing to get with them and even praise them, while the legal system (still run largely by men while its laws are enforced primarily by men) enables much of that behavior. Men are desperate to please them, and will go to war for the right to white knight for an even moderately attractive woman”
America is fast becoming a socialist dictatorship, and in order to put an iron fist down on the population that matters (read: the male population) they need an excuse, hence we see the government playing the “to protect the wymyn and children” card and implements some of the sickest laws out there. Just look at how judges will happily throw a man in jail even on a false accusation made by a female. Just look at how judges entertain false paternity lawsuits; a man will still have to pay to support a child even though he has proven not to be the father. Just look at how these gavel wielding fascist pigs just make it up as they go along simply to ensure an innocent man is sent to prison.
I agree that men have to stopping rolling over and taking it; but they have to be wiling to fight not just the fems, but also the white knights and more importantly the government. The problem here is the majority of the usa has been sold on socialism and men who are unplugged and have dignity and self respect are the vast minority.
“Just look at how judges will happily throw a man in jail even on a false accusation made by a female. Just look at how judges entertain false paternity lawsuits; a man will still have to pay to support a child even though he has proven not to be the father. ”
I had a experience like this during my divorce. My X was having an affair and my divorce lawyer told me point blank that if she conceived a child with the guy while proceedings were going, I would be responsible for it financially. That thought sent shivers down my spine! Luckily the only thing she got from him was the STD’s he had (and thankfully, I ‘m clean!)
Thoughts I previously expressed about the way ultimately men are responsible for bringing about this state of affairs and perpetuating it:
I know I’ve made a few women think about how they were acting. I look in disgust at unfeminine women. I saw a girl my age early 20s go top dog on some poor chump that was busting her table trying to help her, she looked at me to get a rise and I just raised my brow and looked away in pitiful shame knowing this girl just evaporated her mild aesthetics with her nasty attitude. and yes she was cute
The problem is, although I have one full read pill friend, most guys CANNOT carry red pill beliefs be it their intelligence, morals, or inferiority complexes. Even your success cannot sway them into critically looking at a girl and shitty behavior. I don’t see it going away..
I just stopped playing by the rules women tend to expect men to play by long ago. I demand that any woman that I’m seeing work hard at keeping me happy. I don’t tolerate non-sense. They pay their own way on trips – well, the cost of the travel and things since my business picks up the cost of rooms and things of that nature – unless I can work out how to write off her expenses as well. The key is to always mix business and pleasure so the American taxpayers allow me to write off most of my trips and other things.
All you have to do is to simply say, “No”. And live your life accordingly. I own businesses and travel, not for women but for myself. Sure I will invite a sweet young thing along to warm my bed, but she’s there for one thing. It is as simple as that. Now she’ll enjoy herself which is fine, but the key is that I will enjoy her, which is why she is there. Women are for YOUR usage and pleasure – it may not be politically correct to say so, but that is what they want, so use them and move on. Stop playing their games and your life will be a LOT better overall…
jenna marbles here sounds like the ideal girl for any guy here…..feminists hypocripsy
What explains the gains Feminism has made in Scandinavian countries then? The are not “Anglo.” In many ways, these countries have feminist laws that are worse than the USA. The only reason you don’t hear about it is because Scandinavian men are too cowed to speak out about it.
The thesis of this article is not completely wrong, but it seems to ignore how far gone feminism is in Northwestern Europe.
The article is about American Feminism, specifically. You’re talking about a form of feminism found in Scandinavia, which I maintain is not the same thing. I wrote an article about that distinction about a year ago.
That being said, I do also believe that Scandinavian men are too lenient and some of the more damaging aspects of Scandinavian feminism result from this.
The thesis of this article is not completely wrong, but it seems to ignore how far gone feminism is in Northwestern Europe.
Feminism is correlated with high Protestant culture. Feminism’s breeding ground is a culture that values “nice” above good.
“They emasculate themselves in the media and in their personal lives in order to amuse their women. When women here behave/dress/speak in a more masculine manner or plump up, men here accept it and excuse it.”
You’re of Caribbean descent? Then “plumping up” is nothing new to you and “bumbaclot” isn’t exactly unheard of coming from the mouths of your women.
“American men allow their women to badmouth them in public with no consequences, flake with no consequences, and cheat/cuckold their men with no consequences.”
As for “cheating with no consequences” – the men just break up with them.
As far as the “cuckolding” – lets see some stats on cuckoldry rates in North America first.
“A mere blowjob was enough to get Clinton in serious trouble and JFK (probably the closest thing to a modern American Berlusconi we’ve seen) had to keep his affairs under wraps.”
So you want men to be able to cheat without consequences? At least JFK had enough culture, decency and respect for the American people and his wife to attempt to keep his weaknesses and lack of character wraps.
________________________________
SEXUAL MARXISM: the belief that Obama owes me a girlfriend.
From each according to her ability, to each according to his need.
“You’re of Caribbean descent?”
Yes.
“Then “plumping up” is nothing new to you”
“Plumping up” in the american way is quite new to me.
“and “bumbaclot” isn’t exactly unheard of coming from the mouths of your women.”
I don’t see your point here. Is this supposed to show that caribbean women as a whole generally speak in a masculine manner and that the men tolerate it?
If so, then it doesn’t succeed (doesn’t establish male toleration, doesn’t establish correlation between the word and a lack of femininity, attempts to use Jamaican term to create generalization about ALL caribbeans [the vast majority of whom are not Jamaican], doesn’t establish how widespread use of the word is, etc).
If not, then elaboration is needed.
“So you want men to be able to cheat without consequences?”
Not necessarily.
There is NO limits to usa feminism. I get guys to do whatever I want b/c sorry guys, most of you are wussies. Not many REAL men left around and 99% I can boss around. Pics of that dude from mad men don’t do any good. He’s loooooong gone.
Shut up. Your ideal man is a TV character.
your ideal woman is a tv character. go fuck yourself.
You ain’t shit. Wait till your looks are gone, then let’s see how arrogant you are. Even Brigitte Bardot got ugly.
http://claritaslux.com/girls/pakistani-girls-love-marriage/
this pakistani dude sums it up
How do women from feminists countries behave abroad? (videos)
http://mrafront.blogspot.com/2013/04/how-do-women-from-feminists-countries.html
women do not control men in this society. men have the upper hand, men are the privileged, the expected, the norm. it has been this way for centuries. we aren’t oppressed, we aren’t being controlled, we aren’t being abused. women being assertive and knowing what they want and knowing how to ask for it is not oppression of the male gender. that’s fucking stupid. having less power than we used to is what you’re really afraid of here. it’s why poor white boys in the south joined the confederate army in the civil war despite not being slave-owners at all; when your power is threatened, you’ll do whatever it takes to secure it again. because society in general views women as lesser and stupider and all that bullshit, men feel threatened and insecure because if women are equal to us that means we are equal to a group of people that we view as inferior, making us also inferior. this is the wrong way to look at it. we are not being lowered, women are being raised up.
What planet have you been living on? It isn’t Earth.
The male feminist planet it seems. One of the worst planets in the universe.
I think there IS hope! more and more American/Western women (and Men) are realising the fallacies and lies of feminism and feminazis. Feminism is not bringing true happiness to American/Western women, I am certain it will be a slow and painful death for feminism! An ever increasing amount of American/Western women are choosing to stay at home and are happy with the “traditional roles”. More American men/Western men are going foreign and more women are realising the lies of feminism and that ultimately it brings them no real happiness! Its reached it peak about 10-15 years ago, now its in slow decline. Once it has declined sufficiently we need to work on reversing some of these Ani-Male laws!
Hereare some links to back me up:
//www.rooshv.com/why-feminism-in-america-will-die
http://adventuresandjapes.wordpress.com/2012/05/24/why-feminism-is-losing-and-will-probably-lose-altogether/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2380317/Rise-stay-home-mother-Percentage-young-women-workplace-falls-time-generations.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/meghancasserly/2012/09/12/is-opting-out-the-new-american-dream-for-working-women/
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/04/dirty_little_secret_more_women_want_to_stay_home_to_raise_kids.html
By the same token patriarchy only works as long as women are willing to put up with it. Do you really think that a woman, knowing she has the option to not put up with a culture that allows men to abuse women, would really choose to remain in it? Feeding either gender sh** and keeping them in the dark is unsustainable. Truth always emerges in the end. Your website tries to counter negativity that does not exist in a bubble. Remaining extremist and ignoring the lack of said bubble, will not solve the problems you perceive.
Yes, because women could accomplish nothing for themselves were it not for men’s approval. That was a good laugh. My question is how dating a woman decades younger than you emphasizes masculinity? By that logic doesn’t being with any woman make you masculine? Are older women somehow un-feminine? Do us younger women have some magical aura that leaks onto all of the older men that fuck us and makes them younger and more masculine? The possibilities are endless in the world you live in.
😉
Well well well what do we have here?
I wonder if more men take the red pill in the west will things change?
Keep in mind that the feminists cleverly utilize the power of the state and the justice system to punish and ruin men who challenge them. Ask any man who went through a divorce or spoke up at work