Today David Reimer would be 50 years old. He would be at the peak of his career, perhaps with a couple of teenage kids, whom he could look forward to sending off to begin their own lives, and could look forward to retirement, becoming a grandfather, and enjoying the life he built for himself. Only David Reimer is dead, because of an evil sexual experiment that was performed on him years ago.
Crime 1: Male Genital Mutilation
David (originally named Bruce) and his twin brother Brian were born in 1965 in Winnipeg, Canada. His parents, two farm kids barely out of their teens, were concerned about how the boys were urinating, and they were referred for circumcision at 7 months.
The twins were misdiagnosed with phimosis, a failure of the foreskin to fully retract. However, this is perfectly normal for infants, and the foreskin often does not fully retract until age 10. The doctor performing the male genital mutilation experienced a malfunction in his equipment, and David’s penis was almost completely burned off. They left the hospital. David’s brother Brian was not circumcised, and his phimosis naturally resolved itself.
Crime 2: Sexual Experimentation
Mom with David/Bruce and Brian
The parents, deeply concerned about the trauma and pain this would cause David, traveled to Western medicine’s premiere institution: Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, Maryland, where they met with Dr. John Money, a pediatrician and psychologist (I would also credit him as having one of the largest effects in the field of linguistics of anyone in the last century).
Dr. Money had begun working at Johns Hopkins in 1951 and opened a groundbreaking clinic there—the Johns Hopkins Gender Identity Clinic, in 1965, around the time of David’s birth. The parents had seen Money on TV talking about new treatments for people with sexual disorders.
Dr. John Money
Money had a quite extreme suggestion for David’s parents. He told them they should surgically remove what remained of David’s penis and raise him as if he were a girl. Money theorized that sexuality was primarily caused by social learning from early childhood, and that it would be in David’s best interest to simply be raised as a woman, since penile surgery at the time was very limited.
Money was an expert in hermaphrodites (now called intersex), people born with multiple or mismatched sexual organs, and it was far easier to create a vagina for them than a penis, so this is what he recommended for David.
A Brief Bio Of Dr. John Money
Money was born in New Zealand, moving to the USA to earn a PhD at Harvard in 1952, after writing a dissertation on hermaphrodites (Hermaphroditism: An Inquiry into the Nature of a Human Paradox). Money was married briefly in the 1950s, but quickly divorced and would never marry again.
He is almost fully responsible for modern day usage of the word “gender” to refer to sexuality. He focused on abnormally developed sex organs and had a special interest in hermaphrodites. He theorized that gender was a learned trait, of which having a penis or vagina was only one of many factors. In addition to the typical factors of chromosomes, type of genitalia, presence of sex hormones, etc., Money theorized there was an additional factor that decided one’s sex: “Gender role and orientation as male or female, established while growing up.”
At the time, the word gender was not used to refer to human sexuality, and Money explained gender role as:
all those things that a person says or does to disclose himself or herself as having the status of boy or man, girl or woman, respectively. It includes, but is not restricted to sexuality in the sense of eroticism. Gender role is appraised in relation to the following: general mannerisms, deportment and demeanor; play preferences and recreational interests; spontaneous topics of talk in unprompted conversation and casual comment; content of dreams, daydreams and fantasies; replies to oblique inquiries and projective tests; evidence of erotic practices, and, finally, the person’s own replies to direct inquiry.
The first sex change operations were performed at Money’s clinic
For Dr. Money, gender included not only a man-woman decision, but also one’s behavior and attitude that went beyond biology. No longer was a boy who picked up a doll just being curious, expressing interest in the human body, or merely picking up a toy he didn’t understand the sexual and social ramifications of.
No, according to Money, this boy was expressing his feminine side. The John Hopkins Gender Identity Clinic was the first attempt at considering that sex was something that humans had control over.
The Power Of Language
Language is incredibly powerful. As is often said, one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter, and the words used to describe a person, idea, or event, strongly shape how that person or idea is seen by society. Dr. Money has altered the American language more than perhaps anyone else in the latter half of the 20th century. Among his successes:
- Advocating the “nurture” in the nature versus nurture argument regarding sexuality
- Creating the word “gender” and making it something fluid and controllable
- Changing “sexual perversions” to ‘sexual paraphilias”
- Changing “sexual preference” to ‘sexual orientation”
- Stated there were two kinds of pedophilia – one based on love and another on harm
- Suggested the name “fuckology” for the scientific study of having sex (I actually like this one)
- Published Gay, Straight, and In-Between: The Sexology of Erotic Orientation
- Changed the discussion on intersex, trans-sex, and sexual psychology from helping those facing horrible problems such as workplace accidents, genetic defects, and deformities to a discussion on how to help narcissists like Bruce Jenner fulfill their dream of becoming a princess.
Some of these are difficult to accept even today. For example, Money said there was “affectional pedophilia” and “sadistic pedophilia” and that “If I were to see the case of a boy aged 10 or 11 who’s intensely erotically attracted towards a man in his twenties or thirties, if the relationship is totally mutual, and the bonding is genuinely totally mutual… then I would not call it pathological in any way.”
The Treatment
Dr. Money saw a great opportunity to test out his theories on the infant David. Not only would Money have a perfect experiment, an infant not even at his first birthday who had not developed any sexuality yet, but his twin brother provided the perfect control subject. Money insisted that he would personally oversee David’s treatment and counsel and monitor him.
Who else was fascinated with experimenting on twins? Angel of Death Dr. Mengele
At age 22 months, David’s remnant of a penis was surgically castrated, and he was given the name Brenda, and regularly saw Dr. Money, often along with his twin brother Brian, for around 10 years. Keep in mind at all times during treatment the children were prepubescent. Some of the treatment involved David getting on the ground on all fours while his twin brother Brian placed his crotch up against David’s ass and simulated fucking him by making thrusting motions.
Money would also force David to lay down and spread his legs while Brian climbed on top of him. He would make the two twins take off all their clothes and inspect each others genitals, and Money photographed them naked. He showed David graphic photographs of a seven year old girl giving birth.
Money proclaimed his theory was proven correctly, that Brenda acted and behaved as a girl, and that behavior could indeed overcome biology and determine sex. He reported on the case (anonymously, to protect David’s secret) as a success, and said “the child’s behavior is so clearly that of an active little girl and so different from the boyish ways of her twin brother.”
Money’s writings on gender, his new vocabulary, and his theories on nature vs. nurture were celebrated and adopted. He received national awards and honorary degrees, was featured in Time magazine, and included a chapter on the Reimer twins in one of his textbooks.
But the truth was a completely different story. As Money started pressuring the parents around age 10 to have an operation to surgically create a vagina, the parents balked and slowly the truth emerged.
The Reality: You Can’t Alter Sex
David (living as Brenda) was terrified of the visits to Dr. Money. As early as a few months after the initial operation, at age 2, Brenda would angrily tear off her dress, refused to play with dolls, would beat up her twin brother and steal his toy cars and guns. She complained to her teachers and parents that she felt like a boy. She loved running and climbing and fighting and hated playing with dolls. She had no friends, and was constantly teased and ridiculed by classmates for her masculine looks and interests.
Both twins complained they were sexually abused during their treatment sessions with Money. Brenda had to pee through a small hole surgeons had created in her abdomen. She was taking female hormones, but they only caused some physical changes and did not make her feel female.
The mother, overcome with guilt and the pain of hiding this secret, attempted suicide. The father became a serious alcoholic and rarely spoke. Twin brother Brian began using drugs and stealing things. At age 13, Brenda was experiencing suicidal depression, and said she would commit suicide if forced to return to Dr. Money’s office again.
Brenda / David
At age 14, a local psychiatrist convinced the parents they had to tell Brenda the truth. That he was really a man. He decided to take the name David. David later recounted: “Suddenly it all made sense why I felt the way I did. I wasn’t some sort of weirdo. I wasn’t crazy.”
It was a long and difficult road to reclaim his masculinity. David had a double mastectomy to remove his breasts grown by the estrogen. He took regular testosterone injections, and had multiple operations to create an artificial penis. David was relieved to hear the truth, but incredibly hurt and damaged by years of experimentation, and depression at the thought that he would never find a woman. He attempted suicide twice in his early 20s
David, after reclaiming his true sex
The Aftermath
Unbelievably, Dr Money was still taking credit for the experiment as a success. Money’s ideas were just what feminists were looking for–proof that there is no biological reason for boys to be better at math, more productive, or earn more than a woman, and that nurture, not nature, determines whether we feel masculine or feminine.
David’s brother Brian, traumatized by this lie and the sick things he was forced to do to his twin brother, became extremely angry, began using drugs, developed schizophrenia, had two failed marriages and died of an overdose of antidepressants in 2002 at the age of 36.
David, around the age of 30, met Dr. Milton Diamond, a psychologist and critic of Money’s who had followed the case closely in journals until Money mysteriously stopped publishing updates when Brenda became David. Dr. Diamond revealed everything to David, including how Money used the supposed success of David’s operation to legitimize widespread infant sex changes in cases of genital injury. David was horrified and outraged.
In 1997 Dr. Diamond wrote a paper shattering Money’s false story which received national attention, and David was interviewed for Rolling Stone, and the reporter later published a biography of his life “As Nature Made Him.”
David found work as a janitor in a slaughterhouse, married a woman at age 25 and became stepfather to her three children, but was chronically depressed, unemployed, angry, filled with thoughts of his brother’s death, and obsessed with his inability to be a real husband and father. Marital problems spiraled, his wife discussed separating, and two days later David took his shotgun, sawed off the barrel in the garage, drove to the parking lot of a nearby grocery store, and blew his brains out at age 38.
Epilogue
In 1979 the Hopkins clinic closed. It had focused mainly on transsexuals, and this was not the direction Johns Hopkins wanted to go. Dr. Money worked the rest of his career at John’s Hopkins, and died peacefully one day before his 85th birthday in 2006.
He continued to receive international awards for many years, most recently in 2003 when New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark opened a John Money Wing at an art gallery.
New Zealand Prime Minister honored Dr. Money in 2003
It is important to know the history behind feminism, gender, and sexual fluidity. It would be nice to just think that Bruce Jenner is an obscure rare nutball, that feminism is mostly about being nice to women, and that old societal rules and norms, especially concerning sexuality, promiscuity, and marriage, are just outdated bad ideas like slavery, leeching, and believing in a flat earth.
But the truth is, the history behind many of these changes is sickeningly evil. I am personally opposed to male genital mutilation, regardless of horrible tragedies like this. If you are not, I encourage you to think really hard about who advocates for continuing it and why. The history of gender fluidity, third wave feminism, nurture overcoming nature sexually, and pedophilia can be traced back to a horrible story about two twin boys, both of whom died after leading miserable, short lives.
Not all the news is bad. Dr. Paul McHugh, former psychiatrist in chief at Johns Hopkins, and its current Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry, exclaimed earlier this year that “transgenderism is a mental disorder that merits treatment, and that sex change is biologically impossible.”
He referenced studies that the suicide rate among transgendered surgical patients is 20 times higher than normal people, as well as studies that of children who expressed transgendered feelings, 70% to 80% spontaneously lost those feelings. We should echo and amplify such truths, and support brave men like Dr. McHugh who have the courage to speak up.
The next time you hear someone use the word gender, think of Dr. Money, who is directly responsible for its usage. And think of David Reimer.
RIP David, poor, tortured soul
A BBC documentary on David Reimer can be viewed here.
Read More: Why Gender Equality Is So Bothersome
RIP David Meimer. Although he’s not the first victim of a doctor who believed he could play God.
Doctors are horrifically and dangerously arrogant. Have you seen The Knick?
Starring Clive Warren?
Clive Owen. Yes.
cmon limey bob, you know what Im referring to
I haven’t seen this! LOL!
i spent years doing IT work in hospitals in the US. most doctors i worked with seemed to be great people, highly intelligent, generous, and kind. however, there is definitely a significant minority that are terrible, terrible arrogant sociopaths.
Some of them are ok. Others are complete wankers.
And a complete fucking pervert too. Having one kid dry-hump the other naked and taking pictures?
Even if, perhaps due to some other condition (like one kid being born intersexed which does happen sometimes) there is no way I could justify in this hell or the next any reason to make two kids do that.
Anybody else would have gone to prison for doing that.
For this reason, Dr. Money was a child molestor and pervert and everything this empire of tranny-dom is built on was built on the lies and fantasies of a pervert. This explains the tumberinas and their mental conditions very well actually. If you live a lie founded by perverted nutjobs, you become a product of their work.
“everything this empire of tranny-dom is built on was built on the lies and fantasies of a pervert.”
This also applies to Kinsey.
Yup
In a sane society this pedophile would have been hung.
your logic is slightly flawed. anyone that circumcises or rapes and mutilates as it actually is IS A FUCKING PERVERT. this doctor was just honest about it unlike most doctors. the fact is David’s case isnt rare….plenty of infant dicks get completely cut off during circumcision and infants die during them. David just became famous because of one doctors ego and drive.
You care about him so much you spelled his name wrong. Bravo.
This sort of behavior (forcing a sex change op on children) should be called what it is: sexual assault of children. Fuck Dr. Money.
I honestly had to skip the second paragraph describing what he did. Sick, sick son of a bitch.
“Some of the treatment involved David getting on the ground on all fours while his twin brother Brian placed his crotch up against David’s ass and simulated fucking him by making thrusting motions.”
Money was a huge paedophile.
So true. I can’t distinguish that behavior from any of the police reports of arrested sex offenders.
Honestly, I thought the article was going to describe a half-arsed report from a left leaning scientists; what we got was Mr Money’s manual for paedophilia masked as gender research. I share your disgust.
I read this article and was absolutely repulsed, yet understood that something as evil as this must be exposed so we as a society knows that this sickness exists and destroy it.
Can we please resurrect Hitler?
Made them strip and play with each other. With the same results. They grew up with serious emotional disorders.
Thanks a lot Dr. Money.
What was he thinking at the time? Guess he had MONEY on his mind! Ba-dum-tss!!
Ok, I’ll show myself out
Dr Money, Dr Mengele- honestly, whats the difference?
Which is why he insisted there was a type of pedo that existed out of “love.” Seriously, if I could go back in time, this son of a bitch would be near the top of the list.
I think the time machine will be jammed by the number of people trying to go back and kill him.
Yeah. Doc Brown be damned, this motherfucker would have so many bullet holes riddled throughout his body.
Fucking asshole dies peacefully in his sleep, the others kill themselves in horrible fucking fashions. Fucker ruined a family’s life, and he gets an art gallery dedicated to him. God that pisses me off!
He is a paedophile like most gender research doctors and a man of the far-left. Where the covert far-left operates the like of Dr. Money will always be praised at the expense of the locals.
Actually, that’s true for just about any scientist. Take a look at what the Atomic Energy Commission was doing back in the fifties and sixties. All kinds of covert public experiments with radiation on school children and people coming in for colds in hospitals.
I am wondering how many globalist elites have copies of those pictures in their vaults.
They probably have kids, pictures of kids and pictures of your favourite man hating feminists getting the D from their fathers.
P.S. Their fathers are the elites.
Completely Sick, another example of how the Left is harmful to society, every time I see something like this I’m convinced more and more the Left is Satanic as these perversions are in out right Rebellion of God’s Law, and yet the Left Praises it as “Progressive”. Mark my words, within the next 40 years I wouldn’t be surprised if the Left tries to Legitimize Pedophilia in the same way they’ve attempted to legitimize Homosexuality and Transgenderism.
Dr. Money has a similar sounding Ring to it like Captain Howdy. Both are Satanic.
“Left tries to Legitimize Pedophilia” of course… it feelz good, so it must be good. Motherfuckers…
They’re at it as we speak, never mind the “next 40 years” , and its not “the left” as such pushing it but as usual a certain “tribe” behind the media & entertainment industry , proof – http://vigilantcitizen.com/musicbusiness/miley-cyruss-bb-talk-celebrates-child-abuse/
Its not any tribe. The vast majority of these schmucks are christian atheists. Socialism was invented by the same, not any tribe. Get over it
That is not even a speculative thought. if you do enough research you’ll understand exactly why the elites parade around as “liberals” and progressives. These ideologies were created by an elite group that serves the Nephilim and fallen angels. They are not motivated by money or power (in the conventional sense) but by a supernatural force, to reign with their lord Semyasa who was cast out of heaven by YHWH. All the perversions you see and hear are exactly in defiance to nature, which is G-d’s law. Marxism, trangenderism, liberalism, Feminism created by the Rockefeller’s (one of the 13 bloodlines of the illuminati), etc…
Also why do you think they call it “social justice”? It is to replace universal morality. It’s not about whether it’s truly right or wrong, it’s about the right to choose it. Which is an abomination
People don’t realize when they are being manipulated by Satan, only after accepting Christ can a Man be saved.
Hey, there were a few things in your comment I found very on point which almost no one knows. Any chance I could get in contact with you?
Send me your email
[email protected]
Take your pills
Good advice. 20 milligrams of viagra popped. Now I’m omwtfyb
Check out the latest Miley Cyrus video.
This is so disgusting that I blocked out all memories of the images.
Homosexuality has nothing to do here! And it’s got nothing wrong. More than 1,500 species practice homosexual behavior.
And, being transgender is something that one finds, not their doctor. That’s why this is so sick, trying to change ones gender is terrific and wrong. Transgender people commit more suicide attempts because they are not accepted, bullied, forced to undergo conversion therapy, and so on until they can’t.
Nothing wrong? You are on the wrong website if you think so. GTFO
Whatever you say, tinkerbell.
You must not read salon. Theyre already working on it
Excellent article that covers the many aspects of this appalling case. The fact is that gender theory, increasingly one of the hegemonic paradigms in the West and official government policy in countries like Sweden has been built upon this literal and figurative foundational murder, upon practices indistinguishable from abuse, both sexual and psychological and the fact that most people have never heard of this despicable act of professional vainglory and readiness to perform surgical and psychological experiments on kids as though they were lab rats is testament to the complicity of our media and academia which so desperately wants Money and his co-conspirators to be proved right. If in the UK a current commission can be set up to investigate historic establishment child abuse maybe something similar should be established to investigate the abuse of children by gender ideologues. I hope this article receives wide circulation. Lets avenge Reimers death by exposing the true bloody foundations of the gender theory house of cards.
” the complicity of our media and academia which so desperately wants Money and his co-conspirators to be proved right.”
The one good thing that came out of what Money did, is that the academics realised that you can’t change a person’s gender identity – that’s one of the reasons that transition works so well for trans people.
And it’s pretty much what trans people have been saying all along. He should have asked us – we could have told him his experiment was doomed to failure and the likely terrible cost.
Academics haven’t realised anything. They’re simply trying to paper over the cracks in their theories. Once of age people should be free to do whatever they like. Before that they have what is given.
But that would mean putting trans girls through a male puberty with devastating results that will impact the rest of their lives negatively.
A line of argument that results in 5 & 6 year olds being labelled as trans.
Indeed. That’s the term for child who’s gender identity appears to be opposite to the sex they were assigned at birth.
well there may be a great deal that’s ‘packed into’ that “appears to be”. The idea that the self-hood, particularly with regard to gender or sexuality can in any way be settled at the age of 5 or 6 is beyond controversial.
The broad consensus in medical science is that core gender identity is formed by the age of 3. This is not controversial – it’s broadly accepted.
This is the same fallacious argument that doctors use to forcibly reduce the size of a girl’s clitoris that they deem to be too large. The girl’s foreskin is also cut to accommodate the new dimensions of the clitoris.
These surgeries of healthy, living tissue on unconsenting minors are not done for any medical reason whatsoever but to “avoid the grave psychological problems” that will “inevitably” occur during puberty.
Yet there is not a single scientific study to support this “consensus medicine” assertion. Not one.
All children have the right to the body they were born with and to decide what they want to do with it, if anything, when they reach adulthood.
More information on this abuse here:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2010/06/16/female-genital-mutilation-at-cornell-university
Accepted by those doctors whose self interests are being served but not proven scientifically. Where’s the proof?
“This is the same fallacious argument that doctors use to forcibly reduce
the size of a girl’s clitoris that they deem to be too large.”
They don’t do genital surgery on trans kids. That only happens at the age of 18. They use puberty blockade to delay puberty, usually until the age of about 16. Then, if the child still passes all the diagnostic criteria, they are given cross-sex hormones.
The outcome for these kids is really good:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958
And it’s a very different thing to imposing genital alterations on un-consenting children.
It’s an observation made by scientists who have no particular involvement in trans issues – the concept comes from standard developmental psychology..
The evidence is derived from the simple observation that by the age of 3 children can and do make firm statements about their gender.
In other words, if you ask a 3-year-old girl whether she is a girl or boy, she will almost always say “a girl” and she couldn’t do that unless she identified as a girl.
But it all comes back to the surgery, doesn’t it? Meanwhile the body’s natural functions are chemically suppressed. The study you mention only concludes that the surgically altered only have ” the opportunity to develop into well-functioning young adults.” Where is the proof that they actually do develop into well functioning (whatever that means) adults? Where is the proof that their life outcomes are any better than controls who were not led into and underwent the surgery?
Observations and concepts, evidence! Indeed.
Physicians and surgeons were among the researchers in the study you cite.
Which study?
The one that comes up in your link! Short term memory getting sketchy?
“But it all comes back to the surgery, doesn’t it?”
No, some trans people don’t have surgery. The majority either do or want to though.
“Meanwhile the body’s natural functions are chemically suppressed.”
That’s right. They are suppressed because those particular functions will cause deep distress to the child. Bear in mind that gender dysphoria in children is so distressing that more than 50% attempt suicide.
“The study you mention only concludes that the surgically altered only
have ” the opportunity to develop into well-functioning young adults.””
No, it says that puberty suppression etc gives them the opportunity to develop into well functioning adults.
“Where is the proof that they actually do develop into well functioning (whatever that means) adults?”
That is the purpose of the study – they were assessed at an average age of 22.1 – hence “young adults”.
“Where is the proof that their life outcomes are any better than controls who were not led into and underwent the surgery?”
For that you could try the “National Transgender Discrimination Survey” which shows the some of the horrors endured by trans women who went through a male puberty. These include things like a high risk or unemployment, homelessness, suicide, abuse at work, abuse on the streets etc.
The kids who transition with puberty blockers avoid this because there is no way to tell by looking at them, that they are anything other than normal girls and boys.
http://www.transequality.org/issues/resources/national-transgender-discrimination-survey-full-report
However, the kids are not “led into” surgery – that’s a choice they make as adults.
I haven’t posted a link in this thread – perhaps you mean the one about puberty suppression in the other thread? That study was done by the American Academy of Pediatrics:
http://www.aappublications.org/
You will see they study all aspects of children’s health.
You are of course free to disagree with any science you like, but the science is there and will continue despite your beliefs.
If you know of a better treatment for trans kids, please post it along with evidence of it’s efficacy.
What other thread? Your link was posted to me above! Struggling with
trans surgery PTSD?
Hmm, I am following links from emails and that presents me with 2 different threads. No matter though – as long as we both know which study you are referring to.
So, do you know of a better treatment for trans kids? And what is you evidence of its efficacy?
Pants on fire!
Read the full conclusion why don’t you?
They clearly state: “CONCLUSIONS: A clinical protocol of a multidisciplinary team with mental health professionals, PHYSIANS, and SURGEONS, including puberty suppression, followed by cross-sex hormones and GENDER REASSIGNMENT SURGERY, provides gender dysphoric youth who seek gender reassignment from early puberty on, the opportunity to develop into well-functioning young adults.”
Clearly genital surgery is the keystone of their argument. Everything they say and do is preparation for, and leads directly to it. They are just following their “consensus” script in a play that always has the same finale.
I have read the conclusion – as I say, the majority either do have surgery, or want to have surgery and it sounds like all the people in this particular study did – no big surprise there.
It’s nuanced though – for example, far fewer trans men have bottom surgery than trans women, but that’s to do with the current state of the art rather than desire for a penis. Trans men do have top surgery, but trans boys don’t need it because of puberty suppression – do you see?
Certainly surgery is a clear goal for the majority of patients – which is fine – it makes them happy, which is a good thing right?
But as I have said before, if you know of a better treatment, post it, along with evidence of it’s efficacy, otherwise, your argument is futile.
Here’s where some cut happy docs gave the surgery to a 16 month old boy and converted him into a girl. Clearly they had a better solution than to wait. But hold on. Now the boy, deprived of his male genitals, wants to be a boy.
The bastards didn’t even have to lead the kid. They just forced the surgery on him relying on their infallible consensus song and dance. Yep this surgery is only given to 18 yr adults… except when an earlier opportunity arises!
http://www.medicaldaily.com/gender-reassignment-surgery-parents-sue-doctors-making-their-intersex-child-girl-347804
Caitlyn Jenner knew she was a woman at the age of 3? Of course it’s controversial. You are arguing the conservative viewpoint – usually the one taken by the gender is biology faction – because it suits your argument that children should be able to identify as trans or whatever at an early age. But impressive though your command of wikipedia is, the trans / genderqueer lobby will clearly make any argument that advances their position. Consider this quote from the genderqueer site:
“Part of this stems from a body of medically-oriented literature that suggests that, for the majority of people (both cis and trans*), gender identity is fixed at an early age. You can easily find such remarks as “By age four, children’s gender identity is stable, and they know they will always be a boy or a girl” (Healthy Children). There are also more broad, and in my experience, more helpful, articulations, such as that found on Gender Spectrum: “Your child may articulate [their gender] at age 4, 14, or even 24” and Kids’ Health: “Some transgender people know they feel “different” from the time they’re young kids. Others start sensing it around puberty or even
later.“
http://genderqueerid.com/post/64181478092/age-and-gender-identity
So basically the trans / genderqueer position is ‘whenever’.
Gender is all junk science – let people make their own minds up when they are sufficiently mature to do so. That means not as a child
Genital surgery on intersex minors is a completely different subject. Trans people are completely opposed to this kind of thing and fully support intersex people in their efforts to outlaw it.
They used to do this kind of thing to boys born with cloacal exstrophy and time and time again, they would develop gender dysphoria when forced to live as girls.
The kind of suffering those kids go through – having a sex they don’t feel they are imposed on them, is exactly the same suffering that trans kids go through if they are left to go through the puberty of the sex they don’t feel they are.
In both cases – trans kids and intersex kids, you have to follow the child’s gender identity, and not try to impose the sex you think they should be.
“You are arguing the conservative viewpoint – usually the one taken by the gender is biology faction – because it suits your argument that children should be able to identify as trans or whatever at an early age.”
I’m not saying children should or shouldn’t be able to identify as trans – I am merely pointing out that some do, regardless of any shoulds and shouldn’ts.
“So basically the trans / genderqueer position is ‘whenever’.”
That’s right – gender identity can be quite a subtle thing, and even though your gender identity may have already formed, you may not yet know what it is. What you tend to find is that trans woman who work out their gender identity later will still tell you that they felt different to other boys from as early as they can remember. They had constantly struggled to understand the feelings and inclinations they were experiencing.
It’s particularly difficult for trans girls who are tomboys because they know they want to play with the boys and do what the boys are doing and that can make it difficult to unravel the whole thing.
Then of course there is denial – that’s why so many trans women end up in the military, trying to be as macho as possible to prove to themselves and the world that they have a firm male identity, the truth always outs in the end though, and there comes a moment of realising you can’t fight what you have actually been feeling all your life.
So, be sure to differentiate between when a gender identity is formed, when a person recognises their gender identity, and when a person will admit to themselves what their gender identity is. – it’s all very nuanced.
“let people make their own minds up when they are sufficiently mature to do so. That means not as a child”
The kind of children we have been talking about are not making up their minds about anything – they are simply observing their own feelings. You can say that they shouldn’t have those feelings, but they have them none-the-less, and when they do, it has to be dealt with because gender dysphoria is so distressing that it drives more than 50% of trans kids to attempt suicide.
If you know of a better treatment, please post it along with evidence of its efficacy.
I think we’re getting too deep into this. My position is that once we are sufficiently mature we should be free to make our own decisions. Early interventions are a bad idea because interfere with the process of natural development. I don’t really have anything more to say on the matter. Thanks for the discussion
“I think we’re getting too deep into this.”
It’s a very complex subject. You need to understand the subject before you can debate it.
“Early interventions are a bad idea because interfere with the process of natural development.”
However, in the case of trans kids, not intervening at puberty can wreck their lives. Sometimes the consequences are fatal.
that’s just emotional blackmail. ‘trans kids’ have had to survive throughout history without any of that
The point being that many did not survive. The suicide attempt rate for trans kids is over 50%.
You can sit on your hands if you like, but people like me will always be here, trying to find the best was to help these desperate children to a happy, healthy future.
Fortunately, we now have a pretty good idea how to do that.
Too early interventions could esily be regretted at a later date which could easily produced the same kind of despair you’re talking about
Which is why the decision is left as late as possible and is undertaken with the full guidance of specialists in gender dysphoria. And that’s why the outcome for these kids is so good.
If you know of a better treatment – let’s hear it, along with evidence that it works. Until you can do that, you are just whining.
John Money was one of those Specialists
John Money tried to force a child with a male gender identity to believe he was a girl. That’s actually the opposite of what we do now.
John Murcok, the person who were replying to, is a huge troll.!
Well, it’s good to know that the disciples of Dr. Money aren’t burdened with anything resembling rational thought. It must be quite an engaging and exciting fantasy world where Tom Cruise is actually a supernaturally coordinated counter-espionage agent for a clandestine US government agency and Christopher Reeve was actually a strange visitor from another planet. (I think I’ll take up “acting” like a bean and rice burrito).
Luckily for the rest of us realists, we now have “icons” like Bruce to look up to and say: “Now that’s a woman.” And we can finally turn away from our productive, logical lives to be just as unfulfilled and miserable as the mentally unstable in our midst. Thank you Dr. Money, I hope your namesake was worth our collective destruction.
It is also one of my sincerest wishes that wherever men go after we die that there is a special place reserved just for men of your ilk filled with impossibly enormous uncircumcised cock demons to make “thrusting motions against your ass” for eternity.
He’d probably like that though
I’m benevolent…in my own way.
Applause for murderers… buckle up buckaroos’. This is only the beginning of the 21st century freak show.
fantastic article. This story makes me sick. Curious where Dr Money got his influences from.
Based on the article, I’m going to assume Satan
“Curious where Dr Money got his influences from.”
Carl Clauberg, Josef Mengele, Aribert Heim…who knows?
Liberals constantly denying reality. They will change the language, force legislation, media coverage, ruining anybody’s life, lie, cheat and steal to try to force their fantasy world and call it reality. They really are madly insane.
They really are madly insane.
All liberals I know are madly insane not only as a group but as individuals. They are truly certifiable.
As well as unwilling to accept any type of alternative argument. Not even another liberal argument for that matter. These types have never been told off by their parents and if you dare challenge their views they will unleash a plethora of labels to discredit you.
Fighting reality must be a bitch. Of course it fucks with your head…
I’d just say they’re stupid and evil. Period.
This happened because of big government. We should elect Jeb Bush to cut taxes and rebuild the traditional mixed race families who founded the United States. The slippery slope idea is a fallacy. People become gay because of too much regulation and diminished economic opportunity.
Jeb Bush? Fuck that muppet.
Sarcasm detection failure.
?? no sarcasm. simply fuck Jeb Bush!
David, the “Jeb Bush” reference is too much of a non-sequitor. Please hone the old sarcasm skills. Your original message just leaves a reader thinking WTF.
What are you, 99 years old? If you read the entire message and did not sense the lack of seriousness then you’re clearly not attune to modern politics.
Just tryin’ to give you a little constructive criticism. Your lack of seriousness was noted. As I just said, please hone your sarcasm skills.
It’s time to resurrect Hitler.
Prometheus Books, the humanist publisher established by Paul Kurtz, still carries titles by this charlatan:
http://www.prometheusbooks.com/index.php?main_page=index&manufacturers_id=1820&page=1&sort=3a
And this despite what we know about him now. So much for the humanist commitment to skepticism about pseudoscience.
I remember a Law & Order: SVU episode based on this story. In the end, the twins killed the sick doctor.
Too bad that isn’t what happened in real life. That Dr. Money should have died in prison for what he did to those boys.
Executed immediately why suffer this monster to live?
When you send someone to prison, you condemn them to be raped. Especially when they are pedophiles.
Is rape a legitimate punishment?
Homosexual rape is another crime.
I’ve started to collect college textbooks about human sexuality, all published in the past dozen years or so (I buy slightly older editions to save money). So far all the ones I’ve skimmed through or read have the agenda of promoting feminism, normalizing deviancy and spreading propaganda about the fluidity of sex roles and sexual identity, much as this Money degenerate advocated.
And they also don’t deal with adult male virginity and incel. One textbook, Justin Lehmiller’s, has a paragraph on what he calls “involuntary celibacy,” only he thinks it refers to men who can’t get sex because of military service or institutionalization. The free-range male incel with normal desires who experiences consistent sexual eviction by all the women he knows simply doesn’t exist in the world view of sexologists.
Sexology needs a traditionalist reform movement to stop this destructive nonsense and make it serve the priorities of a healthy patriarchal society. We can repurpose the science without denying or suppressing it. For example, we could apply what Lehmiller calls “the laws of attraction” to make gay men less attractive to each other so that they stay abstinent, following the admirable example set by the late Oliver Sacks.
Could you please talk more about Lehmiller and Oliver Sacks for this case?
Oliver Sack had a lover though before he died so I don’t get the point you’re making.
Thanks for this article. I now hate the whole trans-movement even more and I will celebrate their fall when it happens.
This story has nothing to do with transgender people. In fact, the “treatment” failed precisely because David was not “transgender”. He was just a boy.
Money’s error was to mix intersex (a number of biological conditions that reflect on the genitalia, gonads and chromosomes of a baby before they are even born) with transgenderism (a mental condition which may or may not have a biological origin) – and to try to demonstrate his theory using two babies who were neither intersex nor transgender, just because one of them had been a victim of a terribly botched circumcision.
Ok, so what was all that about David taking hormones? Last time I checked, that’s part of the transexual process. Either way, it doesn’t excuse Dr. Money of his inhumane experiments.
Once baby Reimer had his testicles removed (a surgery recommended by Dr. Money before “Brenda” turned 2 years old), the body had no way of producing the hormones needed to develop properly, so they had to administer hormones for the body to continue growing and developing (our bodies need their own produced hormones for our whole life).
They gave the baby feminine hormones (estrogens), so the body took feminine shape, grew breasts, did not develop as much muscle or height.
Once the parents came clean (“Brenda” was 11 or 12 years old at the time), the child had a double mastectomy to remove the breasts that had grown (because of the hormones), and was put on testosterone (because his body could not make testosterone on its own due to the testicles being removed) and this allowed him to grown more and to develop muscle, facial hair, etc.
Yes, transsexuals take hormones to counter their normal hormones and make the body change. Also people who have their gonads removed need to take hormones to compensate. But David didn’t take hormones because of a personal decision, as transsexuals do. David was forced to take hormones being a child because of the forced surgeries, and he had to keep taking them to compensate for the loss of testicles.
This sounds like a Human centipede’s kind of film.
Goes to show, just because you have a degree from harvard or any ivy league for that matter means nothing. Here’s a creature that hypothesizes that sex is meaningless and then commits acts of pedophilia on his lab rat children. Fuck that piece of shit. I’ve had enough with this “trans” movement, we simply cannot change sex, period. And why the fuck do we want too? So what if there is a tiny minority of people that think they’re the other sex? There are people out there that are convinced they’re Napoleon its called crazy.
“There are people out there that are convinced they’re Napoleon its called crazy.”
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-uBD9DW8AMiMw9.jpg
When I was a kid I wished that I was a dog. I was incredibly jealous of my dog for not having to do homework.
Kinda wanna punch that kid but at the same time he’s trolling them pretty effectively with their nonsense rules too.
They were not lab rat children.
“. Dr. Money worked the rest of his career at John’s Hopkins, and died peacefully one day before his 85th birthday in 2006.”
Still think karma is anything but bullshit?
I guess if you believe in Karma he was reincarnated as a cockroach.
It’s hot in that lake of Fire.
I remember once reading an explanation that Karma is a form of immorality, this eastern “wait till Karma catches up with them” crap. It basically amounts to “good men doing nothing”.
Can anybody imagine how things would be now if someone were to challenge Dr. Money publically? Can anybody imagine if there was, even in the 90s, if there was a Roosh V or RoK calling out Money’s bullshit? How would the world be today?
“karma basically amounts to good men doing nothing.” never thought of it that way, but it makes sense.
This guy goes beyond Jimmy Saville in his level of evil. And yet he could commit his crimes in the full public eye. Awful.
A doctor with the surname was “Money”. Ironic. Guess we all know what he was focused on.
The Synagogue of Satan now trying to normalise paedophilia – http://vigilantcitizen.com/musicbusiness/miley-cyruss-bb-talk-celebrates-child-abuse/
That’s some crazy shit.
Complete horror story. An entire family destroyed because of one man and his “gender theory”. On the plus, Paul McHugh has gained one fan. This sickness must be stopped.
Somehow, the moment I read the name “dr. Money” I had a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach. Now I know why.
Dr Money was of Welsh and English parents. The surname ‘Money’ originated from the Norman race which is of Viking origin. ‘Money’ does sound like it fits in with names like ‘Goldsheckel’ or ‘Greenkruger’ or ‘Rubelgrubber’, but it’s not. It’s an old genteel name. Dr Money is a shame to his name.
Jesus Christ have mercy on these poor twins’ souls. The doctor shoud’ve been castrated and made into a “female”. Too bad he’s old and dead. He probably lived a really good life too. Fuck that guy. Lefties living in the clouds think that transgenders kill themselves because of “societal treatment”, but that’s a lie. They do it because they are mentally conflicted.
William F Buckley once said that he’d rather be ruled by 20 people chosen at random from the phonebook than by the faculty of Harvard … this is why. The tyranny of the experts.
Reading this article really makes me sad. Despite how fucked up Dr. Money is for doing this shit, I can’t believe his father allowed it to happen. Yeah I’m sure the father was terrified about his sons life without a penis but why would he allow this to happen? Judging by the father becoming a depressed alcoholic it seems he realized with time he totally failed. This shit is sick
You can’t blame the father for falling victim to the advice from someone recognized as the foremost expert in the subject.
I’m not so sure that both parents of David were concerned about how he was urinating. I think it might have been the mother that was worried. The father, although not knowing much, would’ve had enough sense to not go to that extreme.
New mothers goes through some of the whackiest mental shit with regards to the baby. They perceive just about anything is a direct threat to the baby. You give a baby water, yes water, and she goes into a panic thinking that it will throw the baby’s electrolytes out of balance. This new mom was a doctor, mind you. The kid just sneeze and she thinks the kid is sick and must go to urgent care immediately.
Those of you who have kids know what I’m talking about. Those of you who don’t will discover this one day when you do and say to yourself where have I heard this before? It sounds funny, but ain’t so funny when the woman you marry goes into these bouts of schizophrenia.
I can’t believe how horrified I was while reading this article. This one is a game changer for me, as I am generally of the live and let live opinion, but holy shit. The author is correct in associating this stuff with mengele.
This article should be on the front page of the nytimes. I am really starting to think there is something mentally wrong with modern day liberals. They are nothing like what I believed myself to be when I was younger and identified as such.
Bring back the parriarchy, the church, all of it, now!
I just hope hes not related to Eddie Money- I dig his music
“David’s brother Brian was not circumcised, and his phimosis naturally resolved itself.”
The history of American circumcision is quite barbaric, and points directly to Jewish involvement. Most American boys are circumcized with something called a Gomco Clamp. Note that Gomco is short for the Goldstein Manafacturing Company. The device was was patented in the 1940s by two Jews – Hiram Yellen and Aaron Goldstein (I am not making this up).
Then, they aggrssively advertised the Gomco in American medical journals, telling America’s physicians that the procedure was important. Eventually, the medical profession acquiesced to the scare tactics, and routine infant circumcision became common (simoultaneously increasing the profits for hospitals, who were able to charge for the device). This still is a goldmine for hospitals, who now sell the removed foreskins as well.
Goldstein once bragged that with his Gomco clamp, he would be able to remove 50% of the surface tissue on the penis.
Back in the 1980s I read about this case in psychology class when I was college.
The professor, a woman who specialized in abnormal and development psychology, told an entire class that having a sex change is not a very good idea and people who consider it should get some help.
Nothing happened to her.
When we read about this case, we didn’t know the names of the “subjects” and I remember the professor saying “someday we will know the long term effects of this”.
Well. Now we know.
Here’s a personal history: I had three sisters. They were slightly older and had a lot of friends. So by age 5, I was entirely immune to the presence of those icky annoying girls and their cooties. Thus I was able to be in their midst but tuned them out and did my own thing. This is a skill that would benefit me my entire life. In Kindergarten I used to take “the house” where girls played house and make it my castle. Incidentally, this boy who dared to be King of the girls’ castle won the girls over. I remember getting along with them. I was not playing house with them, but they did so around me but were friendly to me. I remember this. Imagine what a red-pill teacher would have thought?
But back then, the 1970s, this only got me some visits from some “counselors”. I remember them to this day, and some of their questions. Looking back, I know what they are really after. You see this “transexualize/homosexualize the kids” thing didn’t start last year. What this Dr. Money pervert was up to was not entirely his project.
Of course on some inspection, and because the agenda was in its infancy back then, it was obvious that I was no kid tranny.
Now imagine if I were born 20 years later. When “they” would be so bold to fuck kids up for “The Agenda”.
I would probably be some thick-necked twink-haired tumblerina insane from hormone treatments, joining Twitter rage mobs every two seconds, and basically being a stain on my own existence and a waste of air with my own page on Encyclopedia Dramatica.
By the way, this use of the word “Gender” as it’s used today did not pick up until the mid 1990s. I was studying abnormal psych in college in the 1980s. When I went back to night school in the later part of the 90s, taking some extra classes, I saw the use of the word “gender” being used like they use it today and right then and there I knew this was going to be trouble. 20 years ago I saw the way gender was being used and knew the mess we had with the concept today was going to be an issue.
And here’s a funny side note: I came across some old fantasy material that was revised around 10 years ago, but it was actually written in the early 1980s. There was a reference to some sex changing effect of a magic portal (this was a AD&D module – yes I’m a nerd – called “Tomb of Horrors”). The revised version changed that out to “gender”. I bring this up because it seems as if the entire thing about the use and abuse of the concept of “gender” seems orchestrated, like a media talking point. It’s as if every college, every book publisher, every screenwriter, just about every element of media and academia, got a marching order. People say I give the leftoids too much credit, but I really think they have weaponized psychology and think-tank this stuff. This is why the tradcon habit of “exclaiming” to the left the negative effects of what the leftoids are doing is a waste of air, because they know exactly what they are doing and are doing it on purpose. For this, if we ever see a new Pinochet dropping these people into the sea, I’m not going to care.
“Pinochet dropping these people in the sea” LOL, maybe he was trying to test their GENDER FLUIDITY.
“…. the use and abuse of the concept of “gender” seems orchestrated, like a media talking point. It’s as if every college, every book publisher, every screenwriter, just about every element of media and academia, got a marching order.” The whole system pushes it, otherwise the number of sane people would have trampled their views a long time ago.
I’ve heard of this tragedy a few times over the years but this is the first time I’ve read that the boys had phimosis. This condition has been one of the reasons why we in North America have been so hell-bent on continuing to circumcise our boys, whereas in Europe the practice has largely been abandoned.
Keep in mind that circumcising baby boys originally began in our culture as an attempt to prevent masturbation, which was thought to lead to mental illness – and society was so obsessed with this that there were hundreds of patents filed for anti-masturbatory devices a century or more ago, some of which were barbaric. For example, one such device I read about was a sheath that would send an electrical shock into the penis should a boy commit the moral offense of having an erection occur while he was sleeping.
Of course, we all know now that masturbation causes no such mental disorders. However, pro-circumcision advocates in the medical profession have continued to find excuse after excuse to continue the practice – claiming things like cleanliness and medical conditions like phimosis are good enough reasons to keep circumcising boys. In the Middle East they use the same arguments to advocate female genital mutilation… and, btw, they also circumcise boys in the Middle East, but you never hear of that… and I would suspect the feminist’s sensation seeking argument that they do it with a knife to little girls also applies to boys, since even in the Bible, when Abraham made his covenant with God, a knife was used to circumcise all the males in Abraham’s house. Most fgm in the Middle East is actually done in a hospital by a doctor, and not with a rusty razor blade in a mud-hut bathroom.
At any rate, while it is true that male circumcision does significantly reduce – in fact almost 100% eliminate – several diseases of the penis, such as penile cancer, BXO (balanitis xerotica obliterans), lichen schlerosis, and others – all of which can lead to serious complications and sometimes require a partial or full penectomy (amputation of the penis), what the advocates of circumcision do not broadcast is the most reliable factor is not such things as HPV, cleanliness, smoking and the like (although they are still contributing factors – HPV occurring in 2/3 of cases), but rather the condition of phimosis, which is 98% occurring. As in, with virtually all serious diseases of the penis, phimosis has occurred not only in childhood, but continued on into adolescence, when it becomes a problem, causing the foreskin to tear (much as a woman’s hymen does), resulting in the development of scar tissue and further complications. This is why those who are circumcised at birth never experience these diseases, and also why the circumcision of a post-pubescent male has absolutely no effect on eliminating such diseases.
Now, the thing is, phimosis is 100% treatable, and there is absolutely no excuse for circumcision to prevent it.
If you have a son who is uncircumcised, he should have at around the onset of puberty, a simple, one-time, 15 minute examination by a doctor to ensure that the foreskin can properly retract. If it does not, all that needs to be done is to make a small surgical slit in the foreskin and voila, problem solved.
Given that women are encouraged to go for annual pap smears throughout their entire lives in order to prevent many of the female equivalents of these diseases, a one time doctor’s visit for boys at the onset of puberty is ridiculously easy and inexpensive and will prevent these diseases in around 98% of cases, making the argument of circumcision for health reasons a moot point.
Btw, these penile diseases are not something “rare,” as many North American medical professionals claim. It is true that in White Culture it is rare – where circumcision is widely practiced – but in other cultures like South America, Africa, and Asia, penile cancer is the third most common male-specific cancer, after testicular and prostate cancer, and comprises 20% of such male-specific cancers. This is something that is being swept under the rug much the same way that prostate cancer used to be ignored and mocked, causing men to endure such conditions until when they finally do get proper medical attention, it is usually attributed to other cancers that have appeared as a result of not receiving proper treatment for the original cause.
Also, I’ve read studies claiming that those who’ve endured a penectomy, while “curing” penile cancers and other complications in over 83% of cases, also caused such men to fail to re-integrate into society in over 90% of cases and 42% of penectomy victims will eventually end their lives in suicide due to the psychological problems they will suffer… which is quite some “cure,” isn’t it?
All of this insanity could be virtually eliminated with a simple examination by a doctor at the age of 12 or 13.
There’s just something wrong with the way some intellectual-types can rationalize just about anything. I submit to you that the single most pernicious side-effect of a university education, especially the acquisition of multiple and advanced degrees, is what I will generously call ‘overconfidence’. I suppose that all the time, money and effort required to get the appellations creates a real sense of higher knowledge and higher purpose, which manifests as hubris, arrogance, and narcissism to name a mere few observable characteristics. No more heinous wrongs are done than by those who believe they are doing right, whether for the greater good…or their next book, or the grant money.
I can’t finish reading. This is breaking my heart, and I can’t be red-faced when my husband gets home again. It’s time to take his news ban for me seriously. Pax!
This is incredibly relevant to me right now.
Last night I received a message from the school that my 11 year old twin daughters (divorced here, children live thousands of miles away with my ex) attend, letting people know that after the winter break, one of the boys in one of my daughters classes would be returning to school with a different gender identity. The teacher is having an “age appropriate” discussion with the children today, and in January the school is having a “Gender advocate” come in to speak to the parents.
My ex, good lawyer and political specialist that she is, sees nothing wrong at all with this, and thinks that i’m way out of line for even suggesting that it is wrong. As usual, anything I say will be immediately turned into the “you’re a monster” type of thing.
Of course, this boy is a friend of my child in the class, and she says he’s always been more girl than boy. Last year his mom came into the school and asked the children in her kids classes to be nice to them (this indicates to me that the parenting is the issue in the environment). While I completely understanding defending your children and protecting them, at the same time I see this as nothing more than grandstanding and attention seeking on the families part. Remember, this is a 5th grader who will be attending school dressed like a girl, complete with new long hair.
I’m honestly at a loss as to what to do here, but reading this only reinforced my thoughts.
Gee whiz, who is paying for the “gender advocate”?
I have no idea, but this is the person:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aidan_Key
Reminds me of this guy.
I’ll bet the tranny kid’s mom is a divorced independent feminist as well. Hearing that just riles me up to be all the more vigilant defending homeschoolers from state attack.
Would you rather have this boy be the victim of the bullies and the kid that gets raped in the locker room for being a “sissy”?
And having the boy show up in a dress with long hair is going to make it better how?
I was a quiet, shy kid who loved to read, spend time alone and generally not interact with people, especially the kids in my class who only wanted to play sports or do things considered to be the things that “boys” did. I was occasionally picked on for that, but to be honest it stopped pretty quickly when I slugged one of them. The school didn’t even suspend me – it was just kids dealing with things on the playground (not something that happens any longer).
My issue with this is that it’s an 11 year old, and his mom (I don’t know the parent/s at all) has multiple children who have gender identity issues that started more than a year ago. I place the blame for any issues squarely on mom and possibly dad here. Not to mention that society that holds this up as a good thing.
Regardless, the kid is in my kids class, the school is bringing in a specialist to make sure that the parents in the school know that it’s perfectly normal and the way that things should be, and I’ll have to deal with my children’s “indoctrination” in the future as they now have something else to consider “normal” when it’s obviously not.
It may not be “normal” but it is a natural occurrance. Much like dressing a boy who is not trans in female clothes and telling him he is a female would not work.
My best friend’s son is likely trans. He is younger than the kid in your son’s class. He started by showing his parents that he liked things that typical girls liked (I will refer to the child as “he” as for most purposes he lives as a boy): he liked to play with dolls, he liked dresses, cute things, he eventually wanted to wear dresses. The parents sought psychological help. The recommendation is not to encourage but not to discourage either. Let him explore. He will figure out on his own if that’s what he is looking for. He is not “out” in public, although a few close friends know.
How do you force a kid to not like the things he likes, and how do you force a kid to like the things he doesn’t like?
Now… to give you a different example: being born with some congenital defects, i.e. missing a limb, is not normal either. Yet we accept those people. We don’t have to be “indoctrinated” to understand that that’s how they are. You may only see the outside aspects of transgender (a boy with long hair and a dress), but you don’t see what is going on in his mind. So that’s probably why it’s easier for you to accept a person who was born missing a leg (something that is not “normal” but you can see) than a person who was born feeling that he was born with the wrong body (something that is not “normal” -in the sense that not everybody is like that, not even a majority- but you don’t see).
hung there and try to save her fron this idiocy
I remember seeing a CBC documentary on this back when it first broke, around 97; sickening that they’re still celebrating this monster for doing this to these poor boys.
“graphic photographs of a seven year old girl giving birth.”…… ahem…. how can a prepubescent girl get pregnant?
There are cases of tumors of the ovaries and other hormonal dysfunctions causing early puberty.
In third world countries these children have faced early pregnancy when abused. The youngest birth mother ever recorded was a girl in Peru who became pregnant at 5 years and 7 months. Needless to say, almost all cases ended with somebody going to jail for a long, long time.
I wasn’t aware of any of the above…. learn something new every day eh?
Concur with guy below. Not to mention the medical complications and dysfunction that occurs alongside those: “pregnancies”
Growth hormones in meat and especially dairy products in the west affect females. Girls in the west who consume large amounts of gmo and hormone treated animal products have been known to begin having breasts as young as 8. I’m skeptical though if this was likely in the early 60’s when hormones and gmo weren’t mainstream. DDT was more deleterious as a simple toxin and carcinogen then. Perhaps it was a typo. Maybe the girl was 17? I’ll search for the ‘7’ delivery. That has to be a world record.
I’ve been waiting for an article to be done about this. My dad (who is left-leaning) first told me this story BEFORE David killed himself. He knew David had gone back to living as a male, but still told me the story as if it were just part of the “nature vs. nurture debate” with neither side of the argument being cometely wrong.
I then looked into the story myself, and found that there is no debate. David was abused by a narcissistic “doctor” who deserves to be shot. If John Money is not rotting in Hell right now, then there is no God.
There are Dr Mengele’s everywhere today performing both circumcision (killing the man’s dickpower) and abortion (outright killing of the entire body).
That is one sad story.
Damn.
Funny when i used to go to social science classes the failure of David to be a woman happened because he was already socialized as a boy when he was a baby. Social science pseudo scientists will double down on everything.
I remember watching the documentary about him a few years back on the public access channels. It was an extremely sad story of a man who never had a chance to live his life. Instead he had to live with scar for the rest of his life.
Why does Society think that we can change the rules of nature when in reality we cannot. Mortal men playing God always ends up badly for man.
Why do we celebrate this? Why is this acceptable? We have to learn that we cannot entertain every perverted thought that pops in our heads.
May David rest in peace!
And all those sickos, like John Money, run the West today.
Present day “liberals” in america are still performing these mutilating procedures on kids. How can a minor consent to a sex change operation if they can’t even consent to sex?
It tends to be actually extremely conservative people who perform these procedures, such as Dr. Ian Aaronson in South Carolina (in 2006 reassigned a baby who was in custody of the state – currently in courts over this procedure), or Dr. Dix Poppas at Cornell University (surgically shortened the clitoris of more than 50 girls – following up with vibrator testing to assess post-operative sensation).
Who do you think protects circumcision the most? Liberals or conservatives?
Who protects the right of ultraorthodox Jews in NYC to perform “metzitzah b’peh” – literally, oral suction- on the freshly circumcised genitals of babies – as part of their religious freedom?
I am waiting for Bruce TransJenner to commit suicide.
Unlike David Reimer, she was a consenting adult when she opted for the surgeries.
I’m calling it now. This will be the 2016 Australian of the Year.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-30/transgender-military-officer-named-as-qld-australian-of-year/6900878
I looked on wiki and info is correct on Money. It states that thousands of other boys had the procedure done as well before David’s suicide and Dr Money’s silence on the issue. David was more man and he held more to his masculinity, the best he could, compared to the many grown men with perfect intact penises but with damaged minds and psyches.
For any man with an intact undamaged penis who has been raised either ‘fem bashed’, castrated by the intense male-shaming psycho programming in the western schools or simply ‘mother smothered’ at home and emasculated, all I can say is try your hardest to get over it.
This kid David Reimer would have killed to have a working dick, especially after puberty. Without a dick he still married. That takes balls at least, and I’m assuming they took those as well in his early operation. It should be no problem for anyone with a full dick and red pill to go out and slay big time . . . . or harpoon that choice mate. You don’t know what you’ve got until you lose it.
Think of David and how far he got even with his handicap. It would have been different if he was born that way. He’d deal with the hand that God dealt him, but it was a sinister madman that castrated him. I guess that was too much for him.
If I were David, I wouldn’t have taken my own life, no, I would have instead done something fitting to Dr Money. Yes something brutal and awe inspiring for the fodder of slick magazine covers, something violent yet clever and artful, a menagere to grab the world’s attention against the whole population control agenda using ‘transgenderism’. You’d have to do something to blow the lid off the entirety of Dr Money’s work where he went out with a front page bang instead of slithering away quietly and a tearful end to both twins. If only David had claimed his right to consecrating the man who castrated him. Damn, just to think, thousands more boys had this done to them.
Teenage David Reimer tried to kill the doctor who performed the circumcision (not Dr. Money). He couldn’t. He ended up destroying the gun he bought.
I think that even as adult, Reimer couldn’t deal with the idea of ever seeing Money again.
There is a current case in courts in South Carolina, over a child who was sexually reassigned in 2006 while in custody of the state. He was subjected pretty much to the same treatment as David Reimer. Part of the lawsuit was dismissed because defense lawyers successfully argued that doctors weren’t aware when they
operated that they may have violated M.C.’s civil rights.
MC is now 10 or 11 years old, lives as a boy, and has yet to face all the problems David faced.
How about the idiot first doctor as well. It all started with his genius misdiagnosis. Huge problem with the older generation and people in general is this unquestioning reliance on experts. The president, the doctor, the priest. Their words are taken as gospel. Meanwhile, the presidents are all corrupt and/or compromised, the doctors are employees of big pharma, and the priest has got his hands down little Timmy’s trousers. Then of course there’s that bastion of truthfulness and free thinking, the American mainstream media. If those fuckers are telling you, you can almost be certain it’s horse shit.
you my firiend are generalizing everything and doing so you became a pharisee
if a priest is pedo every priest must be thats like saying a older brother raped his litle sister so every older brother must be a rapist too
Maybe this will aid understanding here.
Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35
The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male
direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing
nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this
hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of
belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that
social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or
sexual orientation.
You can’t change a boy into a girl. Or a girl into a boy. Sex is defined in the brain, not the genitals.
However…
Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041
The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions..
So some girls are born looking superficially like boys, some boys born looking superficially like girls. And some girls and boys are born “in between”, but if you surgically “correct” them, you better make sure it’s in the right direction.
This pleases no-one. The Radical Left insists that there’s no difference between male and female brains, the Radical Right insists that genital anatomy, not neural anatomy, defines sex.
Hence the hatred on both sides of politics for Trans and Intersex people. Their existence contradicts both ideological positions, so they have to be labelled freaks, perverts etc.
I see where you’re going with this but you miss the actual point. NO-ONE on the right (radical or otherwise) is stating that transgender-ism, homosexuality, etc is normal. And that’s where the true debate resides. Leftist want to treat sex identity issues as nothing more than a normal occurrence in nature and history. When in fact, it’s anything but.
People dealing with these issues are in no way a significant number of the population. Even the most conservative counts have it in the 2% range. History as well has shown that by and large no-one really cares to single out sex identity issue individuals. Most are just fine tolerating them and letting them be them. It is the left that has this unrelenting need to force everyone to acknowledge and accept it as normal and viable lifestyle alternative for all. It’s not.
Historically and culturally people have always realized that it’s enough of a burden to be dealing with such an affliction. No need to make things worse. Just let them do them. They were accommodated in realms were unique and private to them (relationships, and expressing their sexuality with others who were like-minded) and in public and around children it was understood they were subjected to the same norms as those with no sexual identity issues.
Heterosexuals do not have hetero pride parades where lewd sexual acts and walking around naked in public are except-able? So why does the left think that’s appropriate for gays? There is no special education for children in schools concerning why a man wants to be with a woman. Yet we are forced to have “homosexual and transgender enlightenment” courses for children?
One side is about liberty and freedom to live as you want with basic human rights. The other is about forcing all to except and celebrate the lifestyles of the few, damn the freedoms and rights of the many.
Last I remember that was a core tenant of tyrany.
“Tenet” I think. And “tyranny”. And “accept” not “except”.
And if those typos/mistakes are the worst you ever make, you’ll be doing far better than me, so moving right along from these inconsequential lacunae…
The apparent confusion between sexual orientation and gender identity in your mind is pretty common, especially (but not uniquely) on the right.
They’re two different things though. There are gay, straight, bi and asexual trans people, just like there are gay, straight, bi and asexual southpaws, gay, straight, bi and asexual redheads etc. So let’s leave this irrelevancy of sexual orientation aside, along with the typos.
Regarding “normality” – most humans have dark skin. Is being caucasian “normal”? What about being left-handed? Having red hair?
About 1 in 12 humans have the unusual neuro-anatomy that causes left-handedness. About 1 in 100 have the CCR1 mutation that causes red hair.
About 1 in 60 humans are Intersex, their bodies neither 100% male or 100% female, but if it takes a lab test to detect that are they “normal” nonetheless? You could be one of them.
Natural sex change is pretty rare in your part of the world – yet in some places it’s 1 in 50.
viz
Science 1974 Dec 27; 186 (4170): 1213-5
In an isolated village of the southwestern Dominican Republic, 2% of the live births were in the 1970’s, guevedoces..
These children appeared to be girls at birth, but at puberty these ‘girls’ sprout muscles, testes, and a penis..
—
Even where you live, 1 in 300 men don’t have 46,XY “male” chromosomes. And 1 in 600 women don’t have 46,XX ones.
The only thing “normal” about the human species is our variability.
Now I guess I’ve “forced” you to be exposed to those facts, many many years after you should have been taught them at grade school. That not all people are just like you. Some speak a foreign language, or have different coloured eyes, some spell “Color/Colour” differently.
How have I infringed on your freedoms and rights? Even if some of these facts make you uncomfortable?
Fuck Dr. Money!!
But this is not about being transgender! It’s about a doctor who experimented with children pedophilically and psychologically! I agree, poor David, he was forced to live as other gender. Does that sound familiar?? Transgender people, real transgenders, feel the same. Except for the pedophilia, obviously. This guy suffered a lot and I’m sorry for him.
What a disgusting comment. Most trannies are surrounded by perverted white knight parents who help encourage their transitional behavior in the name of love and tolerance. Back in the day a boy who wanted to dress like a girl would have been beaten by his father until he realized the folly of his ways.
No rational human being is “forced” to cut off their dick and wear a dress by their own natural state; they have to be encouraged or coerced into doing it.
you know I want to thank you for writing this. you told this story accurately. the true politically incorrect version of this story. you called circumcision what it is genitial mutilation which is to say rape. you told the story about how it was a complete failure and how phimosis is bullshit in infants. how davids parents couldnt cope. how david himself never really accepted the fact that he was a girl and of course his eventual suicide.
as a psych major….and before I was wisened up to reality, just know that psych books tell this story very very differently. circumcision is not seen as the problem. his parents unable to cope is never mentioned nor is the abuse by the good doctor covered. david’s suicide is if it is mentioned often blamed on lack of proper treatment or some other bullshit and sometimes david is actually portrayed as happy.
so I thank you for telling this story accurately….much more could be said especially about that unholy thing known as circumcision and how it really is a doorway for pedophile doctors to get their rocks off.
having scrolled through some of the comments I’ll just add that some of you are missing the point badly.
this doctor isnt a pedophile because of the dolls or the naked playing or the videos. he is a pedophile because of circumcision. that was the first act of pedophillia. circumcision is genital mutilation which is a more severe form of rape. that right there is what makes him a pedophile and from that it is not at all shocking to know about the rest of the crap that he did.
David is not a unique case, he is just famous. infants die from circumcision a fair amount, and many do lose their entire dicks. I know people don’t want to put the blame on circumcision but this really is the root of this entire case…the rest of the case is just the natural conclusion.
the problem is most Americans don’t see circumcision as rape and mutilation so it goes on….but feminist they sure as hell made it illegal for it to be done to girls in America….fucking worthless hypocrites.
this doctor just had the drive and ego like Dr Kellog before him who made circumcision common american practice….he had the drive and ego to push his sexual perversions into main stream culture but he’s hardly unique….just merely famous.
heres why no one wants to blame circumcision….including both sexes this means over the past 100-130 years….America has in broad daylight raped and mutilated aka circumcised easily 200 million infants(rates hit 90% or higher during some years….decades even). we don’t want to face this, so circumcision is NOT the root problem here we tell ourselves.
Dr. Money did not circumcise David Reimer. In fact, Dr. Money spoke against circumcision. The book “Circumcision the hidden trauma” (1995) by Dr. Ronald Goldman has a small praising sentence by John Money.
Money’s records regarding the “John/Joan” case are said to be sealed and kept at Kinsey institute. Even David Reimer couldn’t get back his records to prove that those photos existed. Money was a coward.
And I agree that this whole case starts with the circumcision. A totally unnecessary procedure.
Ive read that book and it is a fantastic book, though I have forgotten that that was mentioned in there. that said….this book was written quite a bit of years after the famous David case. perhaps his tune changed.
perhaps Money wasnt the one that actually did it, though I have no doubt at the time he probably was for circumcision. only a small handful of folks during that time period in America were against circumcision. So I am skeptical of Money of being against it(unless you’ve got some hard proof, but since his case files are supposedly sealed, thats unlikely and this is probably all speculation….but its cool if you think that, Im not mad at you for that), though as stated maybe later in life he wisened up, in which case thats at least one good thing that can be said for Money in this whole affair.
Here’s my take. Transgender people are definitely not normal. Yet it is their choice as long as they are conscious of it. In this case, there was no consent. They made thus guy into a girl without bothering to see if he wanted to behave like a girl. Evidently he wanted to express his masculine nature. That’s were I think this is wrong.
*reads about Dr. Money*
*finds out he’s from a former British colony*
The fact I cannot finish this article in its entirety on the first try is a testament of such depravity Dr. Money displayed.
God Save the World…from sexually thirsty deviants.
Brits have always had a kinky streak. It’s not at all surprising depravity like this comes from there.
…and such kink is for ALL the wrong reasons.
And guess what sexual kink America, by virtue of being a former British colony, has. Necrophilia with zombies.
Seriously though, who would trust someone named Dr. Money? And on a more serious note, who would trust someone named Dr. Money who is OBVIOUSLY a twisted fiend? Idiots.
Also, while I’m not suffering any ill effects from it, I wish I had been consulted before they went ahead and circumcised me.
The problem is Dr. Money was supported by a Harvard degree. Who wouldn’t respect an aggressive and assertive Harvard graduate?
This whole story sickened me.
Classic example of junk science. One of the most humbling things you can realize as a man of science is that the world is what it is, and no amount of lying or rationalization can change that. A man is a man, and he should want a woman. A woman is a woman and she should want a man. There’s no “alternative choice,” there’s just illness.
So what happens when a baby is born with XXY chromosomes instead of XX or XY? Or when a baby is born with some parts of the body with XX and some parts with XY chromosomes? Or when a baby has fully female genitalia, but internally has testes instead of uterus and ovaries? How do you deal with those cases – which happen at an estimated rate of 1 in 2000 births?
“The Reality: You Can’t Alter Sex””
The author has completely misunderstood. You can alter sex, but you can’t alter “gender identity” (that’s a person’s own sense of whether they are male or female).
That’s why this case turned out the way it did – Money was trying to force someone with a male gender identity to live as a girl. It’s exactly the same thing that happens to trans kids if you force them to live as the sex opposite to their gender identity.
In other words, forcing David Reimer to live as a girl was just as doomed to failure as it would be to force Jazz Jennings to live as a boy.
In the vast majority of cases, a person’s gender identity matches their body, but in a small number of cases it doesn’t (transsexuals). In either case, the gender identity is fixed. That’s why trans people transition.
The whole of gender feminism is premised on the idea that you can alter gendered performance and therefore gender identity.
Gendered performance and gender identity are 2 completely different things. That’s why some trans women like fixing cars, and some trans men like sewing.
In fact, trans people are no more or less likely to adhere to gender performance stereotypes than cis people.
Arguably you’re reifying gender identity as some kind of essence. Are you sure you’re not just trying to have your cake and eat it?
Are you suggesting that gender identity doesn’t exist? Or that it can be changed?
I’m suggesting there is an inconsistency in gender theory
What is that inconsistency?
gender theory came in to its own in the 90s when the idea of a ‘true self’ separate to how we express or perform that self, with respect to sexuality or anything else was increasingly challenged. The inconsistency involves in exploiting both the ‘gender is a performance’ idea and the idea that gender identity can be isolated in the sense you (and many here) seem to mean. That’s particularly the case if you consider how biology has effectively been removed from the equation by the discourse of gender.
“That’s particularly the case if you consider how biology has effectively
been removed from the equation by the discourse of gender.”
The scientific evidence we have suggests that gender identity is innate and has biological markers. So trans people are certainly not removing biology from the discourse.
Gender is a junk social science term that originates from the corrupt mind of the likes of John Money whose purpose was to dis-establish sexual identity from biological sex. Of course biology plays a part in how we see ourselves sexually. You won’t find anybody here who disagrees. But this whole trans discourse appeals to biology or social constructionism depending on convenience. We need to get rid of gender theory indoctrinated parents and professionals who allow their politics to sway children in every way but the traditional
You are forgetting that trans kids are trans kids even when the parent violently resist and try to force conformity on the child.
Trans kids exist. If you know of a better way treat them. please post it along with evidence of its efficacy.
nobody should be violent resisting anything, but children are not self-determining at age 6 or 7. Parents can be sensitive to their kids, including the possibility that they may not fit the usual mode without trying to settle the matter before the child has had a chance to fully develop. Thanks for the argument, we’re going to have to disagree on everything else
“Thanks for the argument”
You’re welcome.
” Parents can be sensitive to their kids, including the possibility that
they may not fit the usual mode without trying to settle the matter
before the child has had a chance to fully develop.”
In one respect you are right – parents should not try to settle the matter pre-puberty. This is exactly the advice that the gender specialists give them – follow the child’s lead, let them get it out of their system and in the majority of cases it will turn out to be a passing phase.
However, if it doesn’t pass, and your child is becoming more and more distressed as puberty approaches. For example, I know of children self-harming with scissors and trying to kill themselves, then you need to act.
Puberty blockers are reversible – if the child comes off them, they will go through their puberty as normal. What they do is buy time – precisely so that the child is as old as possible before it make its final decisions about what to do.
Unfortunately, the age limit is about 16 – by that time you really need to be putting the kid through puberty. It’s very young to be making such a big decision, but the brutal fact is that there is no other choice for these kids.
As it happens, if your child has gotten all the way to puberty blockade believing they are a girl, they are fairly definitely trans, and will not have wavered at any point during the puberty blockade.
As many checks and balances as possible are put in place. That is why the outcome for these children is so good.
I just don’t buy you’re rationale and I’m not really interested in debating it. This is ROK not the Huff Post. The trans phenomenon reflects powerful forces that are warping our culture and which are currently placing enormous pressure on kids who would otherwise just get on with developing naturally without any kind of hormone / drug interventions to change them into something they are not. Parents need to be sensitive to their kids needs but there are limits – billy elliot shouldn’t be forced to become a coal miner, but equally that doesn’t mean he should be supported to wear a tutu until he’s fully capable of making that important life decision
“I just don’t buy you’re rationale”
It makes no difference to the truth whether you buy it or not.
“This is ROK not the Huff Post.”
The truth is the truth, regardless of the forum it is presented on.
“The trans phenomenon reflects powerful forces that are warping our
culture and which are currently placing enormous pressure on kids who
would otherwise just get on with developing naturally without any kind
of hormone / drug interventions to change them into something they are
not.”
This is a conspiracy theory. I have explained to you what actually happens with trans kids, but no one can force you to listen or to learn.
“billy elliot shouldn’t be forced to become a coal miner, but equally
that doesn’t mean he should be supported to wear a tutu until he’s fully
capable of making that important life decision”
As I have explained, there are some decisions that can only be made in childhood. These kids have no option but to make that choice – male puberty, or puberty blockers?.
You have given me no evidence at all that going through the puberty that feels wrong for them is helpful to trans children. All the evidence points the other way.
Anyone can posture about ‘truth’. The truth is that the discourse of ‘trans’ depends on a post-modern discourse of gender that has dispense with such ‘truth claims’ in favour of a will to power. Until of course its inconvenient, at which point we’re back to good ol’ fashion essentialism.
/The trans phenomenon reflects powerful forces that are warping our
culture / This is conspiracy theory/
So the phrase ‘powerful forces’ necessarily refers to a conspiracy? The gender discourse has indeed been patronised by powerful lobbies and other undemocractic forces, most obviously in the now ubiqituous and well-funded gender studies departments now with the full backing of most western governmets.
“As I have explained, there are some decisions that can only be made in childhood.”
They’re not mature enough to make such decisions.
“Anyone can posture about ‘truth’.
The truth is the truth regardless of who is or isn’t posturing.
“So the phrase ‘powerful forces’ necessarily refers to a conspiracy?’.
If we’re so powerful, why are trans people four times more likely to have a household income of less than $10,000/year compared to the general population? .Why do 55% of trans people lose their jobs? Why are 51% bullied in school? Why are so many of us victims of assault?
“ubiqituous and well-funded gender studies departments.
What’s wrong with studying gender? You sound a little paranoid.
“They’re not mature enough to make such decisions.
Never-the-less, the decision has to be made, and that’s the only chance to make it.
“They’re not mature enough to make such decisions.”
A similar scenario has just happened in the UK – a 9-year-old boy has a brain tumour and the treatment for it was likely to make him infertile, so he needed to decide whether to have an operation on his testicles to try and save some tissue that could return his fertility to him in later life.
It’s no good telling him he is too young to make such a decision – it needs to be made now, there is no other choice.
Patrons not you
So the comparison is a boy with a brain tumour? Ok time to exit
That doesn’t make sense.
The comparison is between 2 children who have to make big medical decisions despite being children.
How’s your research into alternative treatments going?
Jazz Jennings doesn’t have a right to be pregnant and should know it will not be an option in the future because it would be inherently unethical. Nor did David Reimer have a right to be pregnant.
Womb transplants are already happening. I know trans girls who are already in contact with the relevant surgeons. A pregnant trans girl may already have happened, but it is not likely to be long before one of them is willing to go public.
The medical profession regards trans girls as girls in many Western countries, and it is not considered to unethical to give a womb transplant to a girl.
David Reimer would not have wanted to be pregnant – he was a man.
No it hasn’t happened yet. There have been some uterus transplants into women born without wombs, which at least has a claim to be medicine, but is also unnecessary and risky.
It may or may not have happened – you will only know it has happened when a trans girl who has undergone the procedure is either outed or outs herself.
It will happen though – you wait and see.
https://www.yahoo.com/health/surgery-could-give-men-wombs-1302360099545142.html
Hello, civil adults capable of intelligent discussion. I’m a male to female transitioner. Jessica is my legal name, the one on my birth certificate is even more feminine. Ask me anything. I’m not shy, and I’m very patient with people that like using “he” when talking to me for interesting reasons – which I’m sure you’ll share – but I obviously prefer “she”. I am obviously not a fan of what Dr Money did. I am also aware of the nature of the “Return of Kings” website, or at least as aware as I can be after a few minutes of research.
Just here in the interest of clearing up misunderstandings. My aim isn’t for you to walk away agreeing with me. My aim is for you to walk away with facts, and hopefully, to quell common myths presented as facts about people like me.
Please don’t be shy 🙂
And please don’t worry about being offensive. The only thing that will offend me is dishonesty and cowardice. I’ve already solved my problems and played with the hand life dealt me, and I am very happy now. I’ve spent too many years closeted and afraid to want anyone else to suffer through that. If you don’t like trans people, and you are passive aggressive about that, you will offend me. If, on the other hand, you have a backbone, and you are up front about how you feel, you won’t. If you respect me enough to bravely tell me that religion is informing your opinion of me, I will even respect you more.
I’m not very familiar with ROK either, I’m here to drum up support for my proposal: the Natural Marriage and Reproduction Act. The premise is, the right to procreate is as the body’s sex, with someone of the other sex, in marriage. It bans male pregnancy, same sex offspring, protects the reproduction rights of marriage, and voids all same sex marriages.
So my question to you is, do you accept that you don’t have a right to gestate a baby, and that only females do?
Carrying a pregnancy is not a right. It’s an capacity. People born without uterus do not have that capacity. Transgender women do not have that innate capacity.
Transgender men (people who were born females but transition to become males) typically retain their uterus and ovaries, and there have been several instances of transgender men carrying pregnancies. Since they were born females, it is a capacity that their bodies retain -even if they have mustaches. They however need the intervention of a person with penis and testicles to obtain the semen, whether by natural intercourse or in vitro fecundation.
In fact, two cases I have seen were married couples composed of a transgender male and a transgender woman. The transgender woman had the penis and testicles. The transgender man carried the pregnancy. It was an heterosexual marriage, you could say.
How does this fit in your proposal?
Pregnancy is a right that all females have and no males have. There are not any women who do not have a right to be pregnant. There are not any men who do.
People can change their legal sex, and marriage laws go by legal sex. Reproductive rights do not always match legal sex, but in such cases the person is infertile as their legal sex.
Given the state of the art scientifically definitely. My getting a womb transplant would be completely unethical. However, if the technology were perfected – to the point where a baby born to me would be viable – or if stem cell research gave me a natural womb, and there were already proven studies that said any baby I had would be as likely or better to be viable, then it would be a different story. As stands, though, I’m in the same boat any barren woman is.
Great question!
I do want to add though, that while I’m a generally hard to offend person, a lot of AFAB (assigned female at birth) women who are barren would definitely take offense to the suggestion that being able to bear a child is what makes you a woman. Women don’t lose our women’s restroom privileges when we reach menopause.
I want to make it clear finally that I only addressed the question you asked me directly. I appreciate your sharing your motives for asking with me. I obviously don’t share them, and I want to make it clear that I was not implicitly agreeing with them, but they do make it easier to see where you are coming from.
Alright. Let me start with a couple of questions, none of them rhetorical.
-Do you suppose you would be as inclined to believe yourself to be a woman if you were born:
1: in a more “authoritatian” environment (e.g. arab world, deep christian communities, China, etc)
2: an environment where these medical technologies were not availabe (eg. Third world poor, or in the past)
3: or, simply in a world where the left had not achieved cultural domination in the past 50 years?
-Let’s say your um, condition, wasn’t simply a circumstancial fad, and that even in one of the above settings, you could still feel something wrong with yourself. Regardless, do you find it inconceivable that you could still acheive completion as a human being after having that part of you suppressed? Let’s imagine an arab boy, manifesting such tendencies. Will be happier if, a) he insists on such tendencies, eventually becoming a pariah or punished, or b) he learns to suppress such tendencies, allowing him to partake in a collective identity and oneness which would otherwise be closed to him? Obviously you could say, “change the society”, but must the collective change for the sake of the (extreme) individual? Notice that most of what I just said is very much more at home with leftism than rightism at a philosophical level -the collective over the individual, and the pliability of human beings. I don’t really hold such beliefs, I’m just showing that this idea, common among the left, that there’s nothing to be done other than chop your dick off, is in a way very much at odds with leftism at a fundamental level.
Hi 🙂
So to your first three questions, I have the same answer to each. I definitely wouldn’t address my problems the same way. I am the first to admit that I am fortunate to be able to apply a first world solution to my problem. However, there is a way I could have solved my issues in those societies, and in fact, a way people like me have solved them historically.
While I show solidarity with the entire LGBT community, I do need to point out that there are two groups of people with slightly different needs. I’m a transsexual. All transsexuals are transgender as well for reasons I’ll get into in a second, but, for a moment, I would like you to consider each a different group of people.
Transsexuals, like myself, experience something called gender dysphoria, which is definitely related to our hormones and physical sex. I would have a problem if there was no society. For example, if I lived on a desert island.
Transgender people, have problems that relate to our gender presentation to other people. Transgender problems, on their own, would actually go away if there was no society.
The link between the two, and why I mentioned all transsexuals are transgender, is the link between the limbic and endocrine systems. Without going into too much detail – and this is a gross oversimplification – I’ll pick an example that is not controversial, and has nothing to do with gender, so you can see the forces at work here.
Right now, there is a bear behind you.
For the sake of argument, anyway. Pretend there is. How do you react? Chances are, if you are most people, your heart begins to race, you feel an urge to stand up and run away, or if you feel you are doomed no matter what and have some character, maybe you feel like fighting the bear, if for no other reason than so it wastes time with you and others can get to safety.
This is your limbic system and endocrine system working together. Your limbic system recognized something very basic – bear. Threat. Danger. And you have some chemicals that can encourage you to take certain actions, that your endocrine system pumps out. In our case, the hormones adrenaline and cortisol. Those, in turn, set your heart racing and your “fight or flight” response in motion.
So with me, it used to really bother me, before I destroyed my body’s ability to make another hormone – testosterone – and replaced it with the hormone estrogen, when I was misgendered, or treated like a man.
You yourself can trigger an estrous response – in other words, there is something you can do which reliably, there have been studies, makes your body produce estrogen, which in turn encourages you to take different actions. When a woman is crying, you can hold her and comfort her. This tells us a lot. This tells us that your limbic system can recognize “woman”, just the same way it recognizes “danger”, and it tells us sex hormones are not special; they work the way your other hormones do.
Now with transsexuals like me – and not just us, by the way; men who are not transsexuals but who abuse steroid hormones, and go through withdrawal, and experience their bodies being flooded with estrogen – respond to the wrong sex hormones with something called dysphoria. The best way to describe it, is the way you feel when something has been very wrong, for a very long time, and your body, having noticed you not responding in a way that decreases your suffering, has started instead to encourage you to give up. You feel things like despair.
If you can remember the third Christopher Nolan Batman movie, and can imagine what Batman must have been feeling when he was trapped in prison while Bane destroyed gotham and eventually planned to nuke it, and you can imagine for just a sec that you were in that situation with all your limitations instead of being Batman, that is the best description of day to day life for me before hormones. Unless I did things to “breath” such as cross dressing, until those things too stopped working entirely.
I apologize for the length, but all that was necessary for me to be able to address your question. People like me in the third world, and over 50 years ago, before we had options with dignity like those I enjoy, tended to join slave and warrior castes of society, in which they offered castration. I am not saying all castrated people are trans; they are not. But I am saying I would probably become a eunuch of sorts. In some societies like feudal Japan, I’d even enjoy most of the female gender role if I did this.
I would DEFINITELY solve my problems that way if I were a Muslim. I am positive some temple guardians, to this day, are transsexuals like myself.
I feel as though I didn’t address some other parts of your question directly, and I like being thorough. This is not about my being “complete”. This is about me being able to function as an adult. I did, actually, suppress all this about myself for years and years.
If I continued to do so, I would have dropped out of college instead of completing college, I would have married and later divorced my fiancee in response to our three years of celebacy (caused by my suppressing this about myself, by the way) (and while I am attracted to women – more so since HRT – sex did not work with her, at all), instead of admitting to myself and her my problem, breaking the engagement that was completely unfair to both of us, “falling on my sword” so to speak, enduring the most painful year of my life, and dealing with the consequences of the lies I told.
That, respectfully, I would really rather you not encourage other people to tell. The closet is not a solution. It kills people and breaks up families. I realize lies are convenient. I’m sure most marriages have lies and secrets. But not like this. I was wrong to listen to you, and wrong to get in my relationship. No relationship can survive this.
Anyway, she and I are good friends now and date other people.
I would not have been able to get the job I got. I would not be able to start my nonprofit corporation.
I am not saying I would have committed suicide. I may or may not have. I made it 33 years before transitioning. Cait made it 3 more decades than that. I don’t think it should be “transition or die” anyway.
But this life – this more honest life, where I am not causing me and others pain unnecessarily just to make people like yourself more comfortable? Would not have been possible, period, without my owning up to my problems like a grown up.
I don’t know how I missed this. I’ll take it point by point though. It really is a matter of my not checking out Disqus as often as my other feeds.
“Do you suppose you would be as inclined to believe yourself to be a woman…”
So I think the way you started this sentence out, really highlights some misconceptions. I don’t “believe” anything. There are several non-controversial biological facts that combined to make a sex change an attractive choice for me.
I will say I did grow up in a very authoritarian environment. 2 x 4 blocks of wood and electrical shocks were acceptable punishments in my household, and one of my earliest and more traumatic memories involved clay pots being thrown at my mother’s head. Any hint of a challenge to my mom’s 2nd husband’s authority was met with brutal retaliation, regardless whether you were actually in the wrong. Actually, God help you if he actually was wrong.
If my solution wasn’t medically available, I would pursue options that are. Many people in my situation, historically, have gotten ourselves castrated. Having less testosterone, directly, is really the benefit from all this, at least for me; it has very little to do with how I present myself to others or what clothes I wear and very very much to do with not feeling horrible all the time.
And I definitely would have pursued transition in the “bad old days”
Suppressing my tendencies is something I tried for a very long time. It landed me in a relationship that was totally unfair to a woman I was nonetheless attracted to. It very nearly killed both of us, not to mention my hopes of completing college, or ever getting any kind of gainful employment.
Chopping my dick off, as you have so eloquently put it, is not really the priority for me. Being a “real woman” is not important to me. Getting a powerful psychoactive drug out of my system, and on another drug, was life changing. I experienced the exact same symptoms you would experience if you flooded your body with estrogen. Weight lifters experience dysphoria when their bodies flood with estrogen due to testosterone withdrawals when they can’t “juice”. It is a horrible way to live, and I’m glad I no longer have to put up with it.
I really don’t care what the left or the right thing. I’m just glad they don’t have to experience what I did, and I’m glad that I care about as much as sex and gender as most people do now.
I think everyone like me – including that Arab boy you mentioned – we reach a point where suppressing this need has made death preferable to what we experience, as any untreated chronic condition will, especially one that affects the endocrine system and thus the hormones responsible for making you acquiesce to your circumstances directly.
Actually, our limbic systems being hooked right up to our endocrine systems is why I think cross dressing ever worked for me, although it reached a point where my clothes became just clothes. It’s why you, as a man, will experience an estrogen spike when you hold a crying woman. And I think we reach a point, too, including that Arab boy, where our bodies “realize” our half measures are doing no good, that they aren’t actually preventing our bodies from making something that clearly should not be there.
Whether you consider me a woman or not, I really hope at the very least you have a deeper understanding of people like me after reading this.
The article says:
“He [DR Paul McHugh] referenced studies that the suicide rate among transgendered surgical patients is 20 times higher than normal people,”
But Mchugh conveniently forgot to mention that the suicide rate for post-op trans people is VASTLY lower than for pre-op.
You would, of course, expect trans people to be at higher risk of suicide even after transition than the non trans population. This is due to many factors like ongoing family rejection, homelessness, unemployment, verbal and physical abuse etc.
The study McHugh was quoting is a 2011 study by Dhejne et al called:
“Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden”
Here is what the author of the study, Cecilia Dhejne says about the misinterpretation of the study by people like McHugh:
“People who misuse the study always omit the fact that the study clearly states that it is not an evaluation of gender dysphoria treatment. If we look at the literature, we find that several recent studies conclude that WPATH Standards of Care compliant treatment decrease gender dysphoria and improves mental health.
In fact, the study itself contains this paragraph:
“It is therefore important to note that the current study
is only informative with respect to transsexuals persons health after sex
reassignment; no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness
of sex reassignment as a treatment for transsexualism. In other words,
the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se
increases morbidity and mortality. Things might have been even
worse without sex reassignment.”
So is McHugh unable to understand the study? Or is he deliberately misrepresenting it?
So, we should be trying to minimize the number of people who suffer GID, to help all people feel comfortable with their given sex. That is the sex we have a right to reproduce as.
What treatment do you recommend for trans children and what is your evidence that it works?
The best treatment would be a firm, well respected and understood ban on attempting transgender reproduction because it is inherently unethical and is not a right. Knowing this, fewer brains would be confused about what sex they should be.
And what is your evidence for the efficacy of that approach?
And given that gender dysphoria can start by the age of 3 when a child may have no idea at all about reproduction, how will changing reproduction rights alleviate gender dysphoria in those children?
It isn’t changing reproduction rights, males do not have a right to be pregnant as it is. But it is updating the law to educate people that males don’t have a right to be pregnant, and to stop actual attempts before they happen. The law would work on three year olds via emotional communication from the adults, who would know that the child’s reproductive right were as their birth sex and would not be confused about that, and the child would feel that assuredness.
Good luck with your plan. But trans women are women.
no they aren’t
I feel physically sick.
Wycked did an article about this years ago, but this is a detailed follow up.
Ordinarily stuff like this would be horrifying, but I know full well all the history behind this now. This is just a small part of the latest iteration of Year Zero ideologues to deconstruct civilization. Evil as they always were and always will be.
Medicine is another area where the Red Pill is needed. Society has people brainwashed into thinking that M.D. behind someone’s name means their infallible and have the public’s best interests at heart. Check out old movies from the 1940’s and 50’s: Doctors are portrayed as angelic geniouses who could easily build spaceships and cure all diseases. That’s the reason people like this jack-off could get away with what they did.
Dr. Money made one huge mistake, and apparently the author of this article is making the same mistake: to mix intersex conditions with transgenderism.
Dr. Money was supposed to be interested in the topic of intersex (hermaphrodites). Intersex refers to BIOLOGICAL conditions, where a body presents some masculine traits and some feminine traits, either as far as chromosomes, hormones, internal sexual organs or external genitalia.
Transgender is a MENTAL condition where a person believes that they have been born in a body of the wrong sex.
To treat a biological condition in the same way as a mental condition was wrong. Particularly, trans-adults are consenting individuals who could evaluate the evidence and decide to sign up or not for surgeries. Intersex children are just that: children, incapable of providing informed consent or refusing; vulnerable to decisions taken by the parents, often resulting from pressure from the doctors who want to operate.
Children should be allowed to grow with their genitals intact, even if some adults see intersex conditions as an anomaly. Adults should be entitled control over their bodies, and this includes choosing to get surgeries or not, whether it is as result of a mental condition or a biological one.
Paul McHugh was right in shutting down Money’s operation, but he is wrong in making ethical decisions over adults’ bodies which originate from religious thinking.
Way to destroy 4 lives, you fanatical environmentalist
(environmentalist as in the nature vs. nurture debate)
To me, the most shocking thing about this article is: how the hell is there ANYONE who endorses early bodily intervention (hormone treatment etc) to kids who express “transgender” feeling when it has been found that 70%-80% of those kids simply stop doing that? Even if the number was ONE PERCENT, I would find it absurd to do that to a child, on the off chance it was simply a phase.
They only put a child on puberty blockade once it is established that they are on of the 20% who are trans. This is very clear by the onset of puberty which is why the outcome for these kids is so good. For example, look at this 2014 study:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/134/4/696
Which states:
“After gender reassignment, in young adulthood, the GD was alleviated and
psychological functioning had steadily improved. Well-being was similar
to or better than same-age young adults from the general population.
Improvements in psychological functioning were positively correlated
with postsurgical subjective well-being.”
Is ironical that if gender was actually a construct in its entirety trans people wouldn’t exist. And you could be raised as anything and not even care. I bother writing this because the people who write this thing are surprisingly intelligent and most of the times express their points in a clear and concise manner.
Jesus….Even the Romans didn’t go this far off the deep end before their civilization collapsed.
A couple of things to straighten out here. This story is incredibly sad, and Money’s theories that gender is a “blank slate” and learned, rather than inherited by nature, have seemingly been discredited. But at the article notes, Money’s work did work to change the language around gender and it has had radical implications.
But here’s the thing: a few of us really are “obscure rare nutballs” a la Jenner. The media extravaganza around this has made me sick, but from all I’ve read about her, she is indeed what I call a “true” transexual. I should know, I am one of them – tho a ftm.
I’ve always been uncomfortable with the transgender movement and its claims that gender is fluid and performative. I believe that “true” transexuals like myself actually reinforce the gender binary, rather than eradicate it. That I would, from such a young age, experience myself as a boy – despite what my body and the surrounding culture told me – and that this experience persisted throughout adolescence, no matter how hard I tried to make it otherwise, and that since transitioning 15 years ago, and finally feeling like myself and never, even for a minute, regretting it – tells me that gender, our sense of ourselves as man or woman, is a real thing, NOT a social construct. For 99.05 (or something like that) % of the population, their gender more or less lines up with their biological sex in approximately similar ways. And there are a few of us for whom it doesn’t – and this has been true across cultures and throughout history. BUT, and this the crucial part, the feminist and transgender movement has been very successful in parlaying this experience of a very tiny minority into a very radical program for social change that I believe has caused great confusion for vast numbers of people.
Look, I agree with what you’re trying to do here. But I think in order to be credible, you have to stay focused on the science and the facts, and make sure you’re not going too far off the beam with your own form of ideology. There is variety in nature, including human beings. That said, I don’t believe society should be re-engineered to accommodate a tiny minority – and this is what’s happening, and it’s extremely harmful. But it should go without saying, that a tiny minority should be accommodated in terms of getting the treatment they/we need to live with our condition – as any person with a medical condition is given.
This reminds me of Almodovar’s film La piel que habito (“The Skin I Live In”).
Disgusting, this Dr. Money person should have been shot and killed. I’m disgusted that freaks that this even exist.
I agree. The parents were blameless. Everybody should’ve been shot and killed
Lies and twisted information
Dr. Money was clearly a pedophile, and this story is awful but seriously.. When you think of differences between men and women you think of “better at math” and “more productive” ? You couldn’t think of any other possible differences? Just those? I could pull up at least 40 references to research from scientific journals that offer strong evidence to the contrary. I was really supporting this article for exposing a sick quack, but you have lost all credibility with those statements. Clearly you weren’t interested in writing this to expose the injustice done to these victims, but out of disgust for feminism. I don’t exactly consider myself a feminist, but you clearly lack the ability to be impartial.
Although I agree that males and females are biologically different and may have different roles in society, men and women are equals in marriage and should be treated equally in all facets of life although men may have more brawns than women