Over the weekend, the Internet exploded following news that 150 armed militiamen had taken over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in rural Harney County, Oregon, near the border with Nevada. The dispute has its origins in a long-standing conflict between local ranchers and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) over the pending imprisonment of two men accused of arson. Ammon Bundy and two other sons of Cliven Bundy, a Nevada rancher known for leading a standoff against the BLM two years ago, are leading the occupation:
“We’re going to be freeing these lands up, and getting ranchers back to ranching, getting the loggers back to logging, getting the miners back to mining where they could do it under the protection of the people and not be afraid of this tyranny that’s been set upon them,” Ammon Bundy, who appears to be the leader of the group, said in a Facebook video posted by Sarah Dee Spurlock on Saturday.
As of this writing, federal agents are continuing to negotiate with the militia, which is refusing to back down unless their demands are met.
Notably, the incident has sent leftists into a tizzy, with major figures such as Montel Williams calling for President Obama to send in the military to clear out the militiamen with “shoot-to-kill” orders. Other progressives have claimed that the government’s supposedly light treatment of Bundy’s group compared with the supposedly harsh punishments meted out to #BlackLivesMatter protesters and Muslims as indicative of white privilege, mockingly referring to the militia as “Y’all Qaeda” and “Vanilla ISIS.”
While neither I nor Return of Kings condone violence, the Oregon incident is the result of the BLM and other government agencies abusing their power. Unbeknownst to most Americans, the federal government has been waging a war on white ranchers in the American West for the decades, systemically stripping them of their ability to make a living. With their way of life threatened—and attempts to solve the problem peacefully failing—Ammon Bundy and his ilk have been forced to make their point in other ways.
A Brief History Of Environmentalist Tyranny
The genesis of the Oregon standoff involves the federal government’s persecution of two ranchers from the area: Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr. and his son Steven Dwight Hammond. In 2006, the Hammonds were arrested and convicted of arson after setting a fire on their land in order to clear out invasive plant and animal species, a fire that spread to adjacent federal-owned land. (Some have argued that they actually set the fire to cover up illegal hunting; since none of us were there, we can’t say for sure what happened.)
The Hammonds were sentenced to five years in prison, served their time and were released. However, several months ago, Bureau of Land Management Field Manager Rhonda Karges and her husband Chad (the manager of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge) filed an appeal to send the Hammonds back to prison for the same charges.
Last October, the 9th District Federal Court re-sentenced the Hammonds to five more years in prison on domestic terrorism charges, claiming that the two had not served enough time according to minimum mandatory sentencing guidelines for arson. The Hammonds were due to report to prison on January 4, 2016.
It gets worse. The Bureau of Land Management has been waging a campaign against the Hammonds and other ranchers for years, including arbitrarily revoking grazing permits and blocking off access to portions of their property, despite the fact that the Hammonds’ ownership of their ranch predates the creation of the BLM. Since the vast majority of land in the West is owned by the federal government, ranchers have had to utilize federal lands to graze their cattle for generations:
To put it simply, the Hammonds and other ranchers are in a fight for their survival. The federal government’s constant power-grabs and harsh treatment of ranchers has severely crippled their ability to make a living. The Hammonds, Bundys and other ranching families have tried to obey the law and work with the government for years, and the feds have responded by spitting in their faces. A reaction of this kind was inevitable.
The Tree Of Liberty, The Blood Of Tyrants?
While it’s too early to say if the Oregon uprising is evidence of a full-scale revolt against the U.S. government, it shows that American society has reached its breaking point. As Ammon Bundy has repeatedly stated, the takeover of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge was not a spur-of-the-moment incident, but had been planned for years. When law-abiding citizens resort to actions such as this, it’s indicative of deep, abiding rot in our social framework.
Leftists who are howling for the government to put down the Oregon revolt with violent force would do well to remember what happened the last time that happened. The Clinton administration’s horrifying response to the Waco siege in 1993—bombing the Branch Davidians’ compound and killing nearly a hundred people—helped carry the Republicans to a congressional majority in the midterm elections of 1994. Additionally, Cliven Bundy’s successful resistance against federal agents two years ago was a massive embarrassment for the government.
While assisting Ammon Bundy’s forces is illegal, given the massive outpouring of support they’ve received from many ordinary Americans, many readers might be tempted to do so. While we cannot condone or endorse any acts of treason or violence against the government, it’s worth remembering that the United States of America itself was founded as a result of independent citizens resisting a tyrannical government. Take this for what you will.
Read More: Oregon State Government Bankrupts Bar Owner For Refusing To Serve Transsexuals
As of this writing, I refuse to give an opinion. Not enough data. However, this is interesting. After so many years of hearing grievances, maybe this is the year things truly collapse.
It’s funny the way millions of people are up in arms over the Making a Murderer series, but, for most of the public, this armchair outrage changes to derision when it comes to constitutionalist cowboys. What was the major message that one can take from Making a Murderer? A: That using the system to fight a corrupt system is an exercise in futility. Entire lives are wasted fighting the good fight and playing by the rules. Already, those militia types have succeeded in getting the word out about how ridiculous and evil those mandatory minimums are–a decent man in his 70’s is heading for five years in prison, and it is horribly wrong. Were it not for this dramatic action, most of us wouldn’t even have heard about this particular abuse of federal power.
My problem with all of this is that even if things change nothing good will come out of it. So what we fight the “government” what then? Who replaces it? I only see this ending badly regardless.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss
It ends when Jesus returns to rescue the saved.
Your faggot jew couldn’t even save himself.
I hope you repent of that before it is too late.
I mean… there have been changes made over the years. For instance, the only reason we could see all the misconduct in Making a Murderer is because laws were passed requiring that interrogations be taped. I think after Waco, the Feds are less likely to just slaughter a bunch of people. And so on.
Take it from a man in the thick of it. These federal goons take every opportunity to hassle us and make us jump through red tape hoops. If I were supreme overlord, the Forest Service would be the first to go. These clowns waste entirely too much money, and don’t actually DO anything. It takes a certain type of person to take a job that pays $140K a year to be nothing but a gigantic pain in the ass, and I’m certain Mrs. Rhonda Karges is one of them.
http://freedomoutpost.com/2015/11/oregon-rancher-fears-for-his-life-after-feds-threaten-him-through-his-attorney/
Interesting little read here, not sure of credibility of this site.
Not a lawyer but if they were released from prison, can’t they NOT be imprisoned again on the same charge? Sounds similar to double jeopardy.
Tell it to the cops who stopped Rodney King.
I thought the Constitution was dead, but I never realized to what extent until now….
ROK really needs to stop running cannon fodder like this. This is why I do not read mainstream media. Please don’t turn ROK into a cucksynidicate
What are you talking about?
This story has been played out. These people are very wealthy and are doing this for attention. This is a distraction of the worst order which only leads to further curtailing of your liberties. Read a book, do a model, build a shed…
Distraction from what?
This incident (whether “fake” or “real”) is revealing our government and media’s hypocrisy against White Americans. Movements such as Black Lives Matter (and random rioters) will burn down businesses and cause chaos, yet they are often defended within the media and government establishment.
Bucking the anti-White agenda should be priority #1. If we don’t buck the anti-White agenda, we’re finished.
Mass immigration, feminism, the homo agenda, creation of BC and abortion industry, anti-White Hollywood, etc. are all part of this agenda, and events like the one taking place in Oregon are helping to expose the narrative. I’ve read hundreds of comments on boards such as this and many White people are finally being driven to investigate and expose the anti-White agenda.
You’ve made a lot of baseless claims and insults, and exposed yourself as a phony.
While it’s too early to say if the Oregon uprising is evidence of a full-scale revolt against the U.S. government, it shows that American society has reached its breaking point
This will be one of many flashpoints that can erupt into something larger, and its only the fourth day of 2016. Accelerate your personal plans to purchase firearms, train in the gym and come to terms with what you believe in.
Remember Operation Jade Helm? It was made for moments like these as the collapse nears closer and closer.
The outcome and aftermath of this situation will be very interesting.
I sincerely hope these white christian, right-wing terrorists get the conflict they are asking for.
The government’s response hopefully is a squadron of fully armed AH-64 Apaches.
Put those idiots in the ground. Kill them all.
Fuck you
Awww,,, look at the poor butthurt right wing nut jobs,,,Fill this out in triplicate and then shove it up your ass.
Have a nice day!! =)
Are you the same Rod Haney whose mother fucks for bus fare and then walks?
Mom jokes? Really?
Did you think of that all by yourself, or did you have help???
So it is you! Tell your mom Martin says hi 😉
Whatever happened to the leftist belief ” violence is never the answer”?
The tolerance is strong with you.
It’s the liberal way, if they can’t intiintimidate you into following, they’ll kill you.
I have noticed that since all this started that the left has gone from anti-death penalty and violence/war is never the answer to KILL THOSE TERRORISTS IN OREGON!
You must be from Salon.com. There should be a new pedophile sympathy article you haven’t read yet….run along tranny lover.
Sorry, I’ve never seen this web site.
Odd that you appear to be very familiar with it though. Something you want to tell us???
If that’s your retort you have a dull, slow and witless mind. This forum will destroy if you ever come back. Go sip on your soy latte.
That’s rich, coming from someone who hides behind a name out of a comic book!
Just because your boyfriend doesn’t pay attention to you anymore doesn’t mean I’m open to your flirtations. Go homo on your progressive rainbow websites.
Shhheeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiittttt
Oh a “Former Marine” clearly he’s a freedom expert.
As a former commander of an Army Recruiting Company, I can tell you that the vast majority of enlistees only enlist because they have nothing better going on in their lives. They “serve” no one but themselves.
“As a former commander of an Army Recruiting Company, I can tell you that the vast majority of enlistees only enlist because they have nothing better going on in their lives. They “serve” no one but themselves.”
Interesting, thank you for sharing, I would have never known otherwise.
BTW, why you chose to become a commander of an Army Recruiting Company? Were your own situation similar to those enlistees whom you’re denigrating?
I joined the Army because I wanted to “travel to interesting places meet interesting people and kill them” in order to avoid a boring middle class lifelike my engineer father. I started ROTC in 2000 because the Army offered me a scholarship. I was commissioned as a logistics officer because that is what the army assigned me. I took a recruiting command because it was offered to me.
I did not need the Army like the enlistee who walks into the recruiter’s office because he is unemployable elsewhere. But yes, I have benefited from it; paid for my BA, and MS, I still have the Post 911 GI Bill, veteran’s Preference, a much fuller resume than I’d have otherwise.
Liberals think that police and military should be clone troopers.
Wow. I appreciate your candor, and I know that you speak for the vast majority of Progressives too cowardly to admit their hate and bloodlust.
Not to mention he’s created a perfect form for the MRA and MGTOW wings of the manosphere to pass out to feminists when they get their feelings hurt online.
War monger.
Did you get lost?
I sincerely hope these white christian, right-wing terrorists tie this simpering fop to the bumper of a pick-up truck and drive him down a pot-hole infested dirt road like he is asking for…
“The government’s response hopefully is a squadron of fully armed AH-64 Apaches.”
—————-
Libtards don’t have the aptitude to fly helicopters.
Nice to see you think so highly of the military.
Um, Salon is that way ————–>
Come up with better material. Your non-sense is exactly what the liberals say about ‘faux snooze’.
You should know. You’re obviously one of them.
Problem with that is making them martyrs will ignite every militia group nationwide. Better to just send in hundreds of drones with gopro cams and tranquilizer darts. Then have an actual televised trial and we will see who has better lawyers.
I don’t think they will.
If the US military were to be deployed, these dipshits with their AR-15s will quickly figure out they are hopelessly outgunned. Bringing an assault rifle to a tank/helicopter/war-plane/drone fight.
Exposing the Wal-Martyrs as the cowards and idiots they really are is a good thing.
Shhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiittttt
Ask yourself…… why are they here? And what do they hope to achieve? They are here to shed light on government abuse of power. They hope to achieve media attention for this abuse of power that would result in the release of the Hammonds. To that end…… the most serious crime they have committed to date…is trespassing. Do you really want to call in the AH-64’s to gun them down for that? It would only fuel the fire.
So……you want to slaughter a bunch of peacefully protesters for speaking out over government abuse of power….by sending in the government to abuse their power and gun them down?? Wow dude.
I’m just calling for equal treatment.
If these guy were another color or prayed to a different imaginary friend, Fox News and their followers, Tea Baggers, and every other conservative white christian group would be calling for the immediate release of the full might of the US military.
Muslims taking over a US Federal building,,, this would have been over within a few hours.
Peaceful? Please,,,, Show me another example of “peaceful” protesters showing up heavily armed, and openly challenging the government to an armed conflict.
“I’m just calling for equal treatment.” No you’re not……You want them gunned down for being White. If they were Black like the Protesters in Missiouri…..you wouldn’t be calling for blood, just like nobody on the right was calling for blood in Missiouri.
You cherry picked one part of a comment to suit your position.
Nice, that’s a Fox News ploy.
Totally ignored the context of the statement. Sean Hannity would be proud.
There were only two parts to your comment Rod, the part where you wanted to gun them down because they’re protesting and the part where you claimed they were violent because they had guns, even if they hadn’t used them.
Peaceful protest is where you occupy an empty building in the dead of winter in the middle of nowhere so you can get heard on the news… but you bring a few rifles along so idiots (like you )don’t call for SWAT teams to gun you down Ruby Ridge style.
You’ve somehow COMPLETELY ignored, or perhaps you are actually incapable of seeing the entire point of my post.
I’ll spell it out for you.
If they were a different color, or muslim, this would have been handled much differently Most likely resolved on the first day by killing everyone involved.
People like you would have been demanding an immediate response with the full might of the US military to kill them all.
And you know it.
But because they are white christians, they were treated with kid gloves for however long this ridiculous bullshit has dragged on.
One got killed today, and the rest quickly gave up when shit got real.
To the death they said, I guess one death was enough for the rest of them to surrender.
And I’ll say this again, “peaceful” protesters do not show up heavily armed, in body armor, challenging the government to an armed conflict.
Well, except maybe in Fox News right-wing loonie land.
“I’ll spell it out for you.
If they were a different color, or muslim, this would have been handled much differently Most likely resolved on the first day by killing everyone involved.”
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30190224
http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-81047263/
https://disqus.com/home/discussion/returnofkings/will_ammon_bundys_oregon_uprising_herald_a_revolt_against_the_us_government/#comment-2480090093
http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/ferguson-missouri-riots/
Remind me again….how they resolved this on the first day by killing everyone involved.
Now….contrast that with what they did to “White” Protesters in Oregon.
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/video/topvideos/protestor-fatally-shot-in-oregon/vp-BBoLVam
The “covering up illegal hunting” is leftist propaganda. I listened to an entire Mark Levin segment this evening on the subject. The Hammonds were given minimal sentencing by the judge because most people who let a controlled burn get away from them are usually fined (Congressman Henry Brown (R) S.C., was fined $7000 for a similar incident without threat of jail time – http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article24501172.html#! ). The Hammonds served their sentence and after-the-fact prosecuting attorneys appealed the sentence to a higher “liberal” court and won an extended sentence sending the Hammonds back to jail effectively violating the double jeopardy clause. For those who don’t know Mark Levin he is recognized as one of the most knowledgeable, reputed Constitutional scholars alive today and does not make a statement without iron clad sources. I don’t necessarily agree with the methods of the protesters, but if you don’t see the Hammond’s predicament as persecution (not prosecution) by an overbearing and corrupt federal bureaucracy you need to go back and take high school civics again.
I certainly don’t want to ruin my life by doing what those guys are doing–and that’s what the feds bank on. Their attitude is: “The system will always serve our desires, because we ARE the system.” If those guys didn’t take such outlandish steps, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
https://chrislamblog.wordpress.com/2016/01/05/chapter-one-the-smoke-never-stops-3/
“I don’t necessarily agree with the methods of the protesters”
Oh but stop being an apologetic pussy. Force is sometimes necessary, deal with it.
Otherwise great post.
Your post made me laugh. I can see your viewpoint, but it wasn’t “apologetics”. After seven years in the military and four years as a cop in south Florida I might know something about the useful application of “force”.
Not supporting Black Knight’s flamebait, I haven’t made up my mind on this issue. Just would like to hear your insight. If you don’t agree with their methods, what would you do differently in their situation?
Well, they came on in an unorganized rabble. There was not any need for every person in the protest to be armed it’s inflammatory, antagonistic, and sends the wrong message – with the short attention span of a general public who want’s their news in sound bites, they don’t have a lot of support based on appearances alone. They should of had a few armed individuals posted in strategic and conspicuous places without a round in the chamber for safety reasons. Of course, I realize the average individual does not think in these terms but that’s just some of the things I would have done different.
link to the mark levin segment? would be interested to read/listen
They’re protesting peacefully, but with the force to back that peace up. Even Ghandi would support these men as doing the right thing.
Going in guns-blazing would make us all feel better because we all know they’re fucking right and would rather see some corrupt Government officials be bled. They do deserve it, but this isn’t the time.
These men show more restraint and passion for the law than every single one of the #BlackCrimesMatter activists burning down cities and stealing hair weaves till they get their “jusdik…” over a Jewish lie they refuse to fact check.
Agree
The fires were set without permits on Federal land (Wikipedia/BBC Sources,) endangered life and so were subject to statutory minimum sentences, which were not passed due to court bias towards the defendants. The reinstatement of those statutory sentences is merely enforcement of the law as it stands. Nothing to do with bias for or against anyone. If there is a significant groundswell of opinion in favour of the Hammonds (who have disowned the occupation) then it should be directed towards recall of those politicians and other elected officials seen as not serving the Hammonds’ interests fairly. The Constitution is there for a reason, people !
The fire was set on the Hammond’s land and crossed over to the Federal WLP, this was the Hammond’s mistake and they received their judgment and were credited with time served – end of story as far as that court was concerned . Federal prosecuting attorney’s in what appears to be a vengeful act appealed to a higher court not satisfied with the judgment arguably violating “Double Jeopardy” and several case law precedents. But, I unequivocally agree with you that some politicians and bureaucrats should be taken to task for this situation.
“The fires were set without permits on Federal land (Wikipedia/BBC Sources,) ” The first has a permit…the second was in defense of their home…which the Judge agreed with.
“endangered life”
That’s BS.
The Hammond’s are serving 5 years in Prison because the FWS/BLM want their land. How would you feel if you had a campfire in the National Forest that got out of hand…burned a picknick table…you put it out…..and they sent you to jail for half a decade as a Terrorist?
It goes even deeper than that if you look into the history of Abuse they’ve suffered under the BLM at the behest of the FWS
I read up on this yesterday whether it is true or not I don’t know but, this has evidently been ongoing since at least the early seventies. The ranchers in question AREN’T squatters they OWN land next to the wildlife area along with leasing from the Bureau of Land Management. At one time there were several families ranching in the area and all have been forced out by the BLM over the years except Mr Hammond.
Speaking of government tyranny, I’m currently watching Chuck Norris vs. Communism on PBS.
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/chuck-norris-vs-communism/
Meh, nothing is gonna happen.
The article says that “neither I nor Return of Kings endorse violence”. In other words, the article seems to criticize the ranchers for opposing the law with violence.
However, that is a flawed argument, because the law, along with the entire system of government, is fundamentally based on violence.
Whether or not we “endorse violence” is a bad question. Violence is something to be accepted by all. The real question is how we apply it. In this case, the ranchers are defending their rights against an abusive government, which is a proper application of violence.
Most people consciously or subconsciously have decided that a certain amount of governmental abuse is the price society has to pay to maintain their highest value: order.
Well logic would dictate that if you take the government out and only rely on “the people” life would be a living hell. The unfortunate truth is that we do need the government, otherwise without government you might as well kiss any “rights” goodbye.
These ranchers would be on their hands and knees begging the government for assistance if there was another heavily armed militia trying to take THEIR land. While I don’t like it, I understand the value of government, we sit on our asses calling ourselves “the people” not realizing that if we the people truly want change we need to get into government positions and change them ourselves, violence would only tear America apart.
You are citing “logic” by using fallacies.
Typically the need for sovereignty is much lower for people living in the sticks. Their very way of life is self-sovereign, self sustaining. Without a gov’t, they’d ride around with rifles and pistols like cowboys and literally live the exactly same life they live today, without the government getting in their way…. which is what was occurring 50 years ago on the same land, by the same families. Some hooligans come by to drive them off their land, a gun fight ensues, you call the neighbor ranchers with guns and there’s your posse.
Your naivete is almost charming. But our government stopped being “by the people, for the people” a long time ago. Many have tried to enter the modern corporatocracy that is our current government with the intent of changing it from within. They end up bullied out of their positions, sucked in to the rampant corruption that exists across all levels of government, or they walk away disillusioned with a system that is not only incapable of being reformed but structured to actively resist such reform. I’d love to believe that change is possible, and I REALLY hope my vote counts for more than the toilet paper I fear it’s actually worth. But there’s a nagging voice in the back of my mind that suggests otherwise. And that little voice is not without legitemate basis in its suggestion that our government may very well be beyond redemption and in need of complete replacement. While I do not believe Bundy’s stand in Oregon is the catalyst for such dramatic change, it does lend legitemacy to the idea that such change may not be long in coming.
Allow me to explain.. Government don’t care about it you..it never has and it never will..
It’s always been about the governments. Governments exercise their power through the end of a gun barrel, or of the edge of a sword. The less government a people have the better off they are, the more they have the worse for it they are. Now Amerika is literally choking on government that is day by day increasingly violent toward them..
Government only produces problems and created nothing but illusions. Oh sure, they invent stuff, biological weapons, nuclear weapons, tanks, artillery, etc.. but most of it isn’t for the betterment of the world. It’s to insure their power as stated above..Government has no intrinsic value as you stated .. Everything the State has was stolen from somebody “Individuals” . End of story.
This is BFE.. order of what? Out of control race riots? Tumbleweed versus the desert turtle versus rattle snakes?
What are you even talking about? The society judging these events is much larger than the population of this particular bfe.
Which is why this should be a state or local matter, NOT a federal matter. If the feds own 50-70-90% of a state’s land, why even have a fuckin state in the first place? Point being, “disorder” affecting literally NO ONE for hundreds of miles in any direction, to the equivalence of a controlled burn fire that got a little out of control, has virtually bearing on the desired “order” those willing to be sovereign to a socialist gov’t, the the masses even want anyways.
Agreed. Sadly, I’m willing to bet that even the large majority of people in that state have the attitude I discussed in my original post.
I haven’t seen any violence. Just aggressive action.
It’s actually the most logical form of using the 2nd Amendment. They feel the gov’t is unjustly getting away with a form of oppression, which is clearly not in the best interest of it’s citizens. It’s also doubtful, for lack of a more hilarious term and instance to use it, the we know of all the “microaggressions” (tkx sjws lol) that the gov’t has done against them. BLM and DNR officials can be fuck heads if they’re told to push an agenda. Funny how that agenda seems to stop, when the guys you’re pushing are surrounded with armed citizens.
No kidding. A legal system that says “if you break the law you’ll get a mean stare and if you keep doing then we’ll stare some more” isn’t a legal system.
Exactly. To me this is more self-defence in the context that the government enforces “law” at the point of a gun.
kikebart
What the article really says is that “According to our legal dept, Neither I nor the Return of Kings endorse violence”
And its true, they don’t.
What we really need is for a bunch of hippies to cross the line and shield the bundys with a peaceful protest against the government establishment. I’m not holding my breath, but it would constitute a coup de grace if you could convincingly pull it off.
“The real question is how we apply it. In this case, the ranchers are defending their rights against an abusive government, which is a proper application of violence”
When one is convicted (in this case two men) of a crime (that in fact they might not have commited) and then serve their full sentence, are then released only to have the government turn around and re-sentence more jail time – well its about high fucking time the citizens lock and load and get busy. Next up: America’s long over due civil war (hopefully) …
Just reading the posts in this comment thread, it doesn’t seem likely even now. ROK readers are more informed than the average beer guzzling Boob Tube addict, yet there’s probably only 2-3% HERE who are on the same page.
“Just reading the posts in this comment thread, it doesn’t seem likely even now”
I agree. Although the one caveat is that if the economic collapse happens and life becomes über difficult for the majority they will have no choice and have nothing to lose.
However, without preparations, people can simply be starved into submission. I’d almost bet money that 97% are not even attempting to prep.
They admitted to starting both fires….which they were in my opinion, justified in starting in both instances. The Judge took the “severity” of the crime into account and sentenced them to hefty…but not outright cruel sentences of 3 months and a year (more or less) they served their time and were released. What gets to the issue though is the FWS appealing for full 5 year sentences to CRUSH the evil ranchers who dare not sell to the Government when pressured to do so! The Hammonds are the victims of a decade or more of the FWS and the BLM trying to drive them out. THAT is what the Bundy’s are protesting to get heard.
I was going to say nearly the same thing. “neither I nor Return of Kings endorse violence?” How stupid is that. I would certainly endorse violence to put down the Indian Mutiny of 1857. I would have endorsed violence to put down the Third Reich. Or any other tangible, credible threat to America or the Empire.
Return of Kings certainly endorses violence: the article about purchasing a handgun and acquiring the proper training for shooting in self-defense is a tacit endorsement of using violence to protect oneself from the unjustified violence of others.
This is why Matt Forney is, hands down, the worst ROK writer. Granted, being the worst ROK writer is like being the least-badass SAS Paratrooper. But the worst, all the same.
Attacking Germany was a perfect example of a misplaced use of violence. We defeated our own greatest ally.
“We have defeated the wrong enemy.”- George Patton
We didn’t defeat an ally, we defeated the wrong enemy. In reality, both the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany should have been destroyed. In fact, Patton’s proposal to use the Wermacht against the Soviets has some merit, after the genocidal regime under Hitler and subsequently Goring was eliminated and replaced with British or American interim leadership.
You are aware that he is just saying that because he wants to make sure people on RoK don’t get marked as domestic terrorists by some liberal jackass.
by saying that RoK doesn’t endorse violence, he is safeguarding the page , annd us as it’s users from being slandered by the people who oppose everything this site stands for. I usually don’t like Forney, but in this I support him all the way.
It is obvious he was doing CYA. However, he should have said that ROK does not condone the overthrow of the US government or violence used to advance that or any other illegal enterprise.
In other words, the article seems to criticize the ranchers for opposing the law with violence.
So far, neither party has engaged in any violence.
Whether or not we “endorse violence” is a bad question.
It’s a pretty smart question, and anyone who wants to express views in sympathy with these sorts of people is well advised to make it clear that they oppose violence – especially when it involves the federal government and guns.
You express any other view and you’re pretty damned close to coming within the purview of violating any number of statutes, including federal domestic terrorism laws –
Especially if some numbnuts decides to actually engage in violent conduct, and is later shown to have read, and presumably been influenced by, your writing.
Apparently, there have been a series of issues with this family. Since 1993, Cliven Bundy has refused to pay his grazing fees for using public lands. Trying to get something for nothing from the government–does that make him a welfare king?
Now multiple members of this same family have seized an unguarded, publicly-owned facility and have announced plans to basically be squatters (I presume that the taxpayer isn’t going to be reimbursed) for years if necessary to protest . . . to protest . . . what?
Forney writes, “the Oregon incident is the result of the BLM and other government agencies abusing their power.” By collecting fees, or by enforcing laws passed by a Republican-controlled Congress? Forney laments that these people are losing their struggle to earn a living through farming. So what? Because they’ve decided to hitch their fortunes to a bad business model, one that relies upon sponging off the American taxpayer by using resources for which they don’t want to pay? How does that make them freedom fighters?
They claim to love the Constitution with the same reverence with which a televangelist claims to love the Bible as he rides off in a limousine after his telecast, unaware, apparently, of the incongruity of building a gigantic personal fortune by “worshiping” a dude who only had a robe and sandals. The Bundy Constitution thumpers seem to have missed the parts regarding eminent domain and the part in Article One of the Constitution, which allows Congress to suppress insurrections.
Bundys and Hammonds are two different families. The Hammonds OWN land in the area that the BLM has been trying to force them off of for years. Ammon Bundy and his people are protesting, Mr Hammond and his son are on their way back to prison.
Ooops. You’re right. I’ll fix that one.
that’s the part the media isn’t reporting. The family has owned the land and have been forced to retreat for decades due to underhanded federal tactics. They certainly don’t want anybody to know that these people might have had a legitimate complaint of unfair treatment.
eminent domain… certainly not imminent
Sorry; I fixed that.
Enjoy your poisonous monsatan food because that’s all that will be left if we don’t support independent farmers. The reason good farmers go out of business is because Monsanto is creating a monopoly using the government and thereby the use of force to protect its monopoly. Independent farmers don’t have “bad business models”. They are the victims of corporate welfare.
It seems to me that the government has supported big business for decades by getting us all hooked on corporate products, working for big business and giving up providing for ourselves by farming and living off the land. Getting us addicted to corporate products is very profitable. If we all went back to farming( can’t anymore due to the population being out of control) we wouldn’t need all the products big business sells us and they’d be going broke.
There is more than enough land (at least in the USA) for everyone to grow their own food.
Buy it first. You have no rights on land that you do not own.
I like food!
Doesn’t stop ‘refugees’ these days.
Agribusiness isn’t the point; the actions of these protesters ring false in the face of reality. The intellectual foundation of their protest is also questionable, given their tenuous grasp of the document they claim to revere.
If they wanted to have a discussion of the dominance of agribusiness products in the American diet, they’ve chosen a poor rhetorical construct, yes?
Have it been like you pointed out, I shatter to think that anyone would join them, especially armed american citizens.
So to that extent, you are most probably unaware of the true situation.
But you do have a credibility testing point.
“Because they’ve decided to hitch their fortunes to a bad business model, one that relies upon sponging off the American taxpayer”
—————————–
I’d rather my taxes pay for his way of life than yours.
What’s my “way of life”? It’s so comical that you have to resort to an implied ad hominem attack on me because you have no facts. It’s untrained, undisciplined losers like you that pollute the debate on important issues; as a result, you’re also much more susceptible to sound bite responses from candidates. You don’t possess the intellectual rigor to hold these people accountable; you are a member of the lemming herd.
“It’s untrained, undisciplined losers like you that pollute the debate on important issues”
——————
Well, I suppose an implied ad hominem is better than an outright one.
“Untrained, undisciplined” is a correct analysis of someone who addresses facts with cheap, unsubstantiated emotionalism. That’s not an ad hominem–it’s a direct connection between the sender and the message. An ad hominem is an attack directly upon the speaker without any factual basis.
Well from what I know the ranchers want to continue the way of life they’ve had for over a century (the Hammonds and others owned land before the creation of the BLM) – they were always allowed to graze their cattle on federal land, but now there are fees and other restrictions instilled.
With the two in prison it’s a case of double jeopardy.
Not everyone wants to slave away at a 9-5 office job in degenerate cities – some people want to have true freedom and not be forced to work for the corporations (ie. ranchers are pretty much self-sufficient).
Whether or not they want to “slave away at a 9-5 office job” is irrelevant; the taxpayers shouldn’t be obligated to buttress their finances by giving them a pass on legally-collected grazing fees. These are the same people who bitch about “welfare queens,” but they have their hands out for freebies in the same breath. They talk a big game about being self-reliant, but they can’t make their jobs viable without skipping out on grazing fees. That means–according to their own supposed values–that they need to find another way to “true freedom.”
It’s not welfare, they are not receiving any money for not doing anything.
Grazing was always free, the latest tax on grazing is just a way for the socialist government to get more money to spend on its numerous programs and enormous bureaucracy.
It is indeed something for nothing because they (the ranchers) are receiving a benefit without giving anything directly in return. You might say, “oh, they’re working, growing crops, etc.” but at the end of the day, it is all for their own benefit. The fees are legal (approved by a Republican-controlled Congress), but to say that its spent on “numerous programs and enormous bureaucracy” is misleading, given that the revenues represent a microscopic share of the federal budget.
You know what, you and me both have no idea what we’re talking about – we barely know anything about the full story – what we’ve been told basically amounts to “ranchers refuse to pay for grazing fees so they go on strike”.
What I’m seeing is ranchers who have lived on the land for generations are suddenly finding it hard to live and are being kicked off their lands (the Hammonds are the last of seven families in that specific area) as a result of some environmentalists from the Bureau of Land Management (created years after these lands were being used by the ranchers).. If the situation wasn’t drastic these ranchers would not have taken over the reserve and act as they did.
“Grazing was always free . . .” That statement would be incorrect; the DNS has charged fees for various privileges since the 19th century. It’s not a tax because they are not being charged for something that the government had no direct role in providing; charging a fee on income or shopping is a tax. I understand you enjoy using language that suggests these people are like the rebels from the American Revolution, but they are not. They have representation in this government.
Further, it is welfare–whether you want to acknowledge it or not. People get LINK cards to feed their families, yet they don’t directly produce work to receive that benefit. If they work at McDonald’s, they are creating value for the economy and a wage for themselves, but that work is not directly linked to the benefit they receive. The ranchers want to receive welfare, because they expect to receive value from a public asset without paying for it. By your own admission, the receipt of this value is a deciding factor in whether or not they earn a living at their CHOSEN occupation. They work, but they don’t want to pay for a benefit; ergo, it is welfare.
Again, the fact that they’re having a hard time generating sufficient income from their work is irrelevant; the issue is that they want something from the federal government (which they claim to despise) for free. The government is perfectly within its Constitutional rights to charge that fee. You’re allowing the rhetoric that these protesters are spewing to cloud your thinking. The protesters are using an emotional appeal of patriotism in the process of doing something very unpatriotic–sedition. Once you look past the rhetorical nonsense, you’d see that Article One of the Constitution also allows Congress to suppress rebellion. These protesters have created a highly dangerous scenario all because they don’t want to pay what they are LEGALLY obligated to pay. That’s the whole situation, no matter what window dressing they try to throw up to distract us.
And arming/feeding our enemies.
“Again, the fact that they’re having a hard time generating sufficient income from their work is irrelevant;”
>>>>>>>It’s quite relivant actually…… the BLM wanted their land so they revoked their permits to force them out of business.
“the issue is that they want something from the federal government (which they claim to despise) for free.”
>>>>>> No, they just want the BLM to stop harassing them is all.
“These protesters have created a highly dangerous scenario all because they don’t want to pay what they are LEGALLY obligated to pay. That’s the whole situation, no matter what window dressing they try to throw up to distract us.”
>>>>> You sir, are grosely misinforned as to WHY the Bundy’s are in Oregon and what they are protesting.
They aren’t protesting grazing fees…they’re protesting the Hammonds being sent to jail for 5 years so the BLM can sieze their land.
Actually, they DO want something for free–they’ve said repeatedly that they don’t think that they should have to pay to graze on public land.
Not the Bundys….the Hammonds.
Not the Bundys…the Hammonds. The Bundy’s have issues with unpaid grazing fees in Nevada…totally separate from the Hammonds who had their permits revoked without cause, ostensibly to cause them financial hardship to drive them out of business.
I have on good intel that this is a fed organized false flag style operation. Imagine that the day before Obama wants to talk about guns a few dozen white guys with guns “occupy” a federal building (which is just really a shack anyhow). Doesn’t that timing see too convenient to you?
And of course the hypocrisy stinks to high heaven. You can have a few dozen smelly hippies occupy public parks denying the same people that pay for maintenance of those parks access to them for months and the media treats them as with nothing but praise. Why not give these occupiers the same praise as they stand up against “oppression”? (Of course we all know the answer to that).
And, no, this stand off (if you can really call it that) is not going to bring about the revolution. But, if the Feds shoot it up like Waco and Ruby Ridge they are going to have a lot to answer for in the next few years.
You see whats going on. These people are very wealthy. If it were you or me we’d probably be dead already
It wouldn’t necessarily surprise me if what you say is true. I’d have to see your sources on this claim though.
The thing is, even if this is a “false flag”, it may do them more harm than good.
1.) This incident is inspiring many White Americans (just watch the YouTube videos on this and read online comments about it) to take further action. Not violent action, but rather actions that will help to bring about change in a healthy way. People are waking up quickly, very quickly… I almost can’t believe the number of people who are finally starting to “get it”.
2.) Even if they ram through more unconstitutional gun regulations, the next president (Trump or Cruz, hopefully Trump) will likely repeal such laws or amend them to move up the expiration dates on such laws. Also, some states will challenge such executive actions (such as Texas) and will lead to drawn out litigation that will only result in (once again) more gun sales.
It may be a false flag, but it might just backfire against them in 2016.
do you think cruz has a chance? i love the guy, but i don’t see him beating trump, and if he does, i reckon he’ll get steamrolled by clinton.
This cannot possibly end well. There is absolutely no way this is going to end well.
“This cannot possibly end well. There is absolutely no way this is going to end well.”
Depends on your perspective. It will probably achieve several goals for our enemies.
So if the American people revolt against “the government” do they not understand that another most likely more tyrannical power will be put in it’s place? I’m not with or against either side here but I feel like most people are blinded and actually believe that the government is bad when compared to the worst it’s moderate at best, definitely not revolt worthy…yet.
A revolt would only lead to wasteful deaths all in an attempt to gain some kind of psuedo freedom. I’m ashamed to call myself American when we seem to be quick to revolt instead of doing the smart thing. But I guess we’ll have to wait and see what happens next.
“revolt worthy” is a matter of perspective. The government at some level might not have done enough to you, enough to impact your life to point of “no options”. It does not follow that the government has not done enough in terms of “revolt worthy” to the ranchers in the American West.
I would also remind anyone reading that the American revolution against Great Britain was sparked for less. The government that replaced the government of Britain was not “worse” than the crown.
There are two ways to destroy an existing order, a French style revolution and a Roman like collapse. The French revolution was a centralizing force, but the breakup of the Romans happened when the empire could not control its outer provinces. This Oregon situation is more Roman than French-like, so there might not be a greater power that supplants the Federal government, but the price of rapid decentralization is balkanization. Still, city-states beat nation-states in terms of individual freedom.
Wouldn’t break down that far. What would probably happen is that we’d have a rump “United States” consisting of the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic States, Rust-Belt Midwest, and the Pacific Coast & HI (despite the rebellion in OR, it’s still a notoriously liberal state). How these 2 parts would communicate is another issue. Would be like East and West Pakistan, I suppose. The new country would be the Southeast plus TX, and most of the Midwest and Mountain West plus AK. FL is a wild card.
Quick to revolt? If you’re talking about the professional politicians, their revolt (against the law they swear to uphold) began over a century ago. The people have not revolted against our government’s hijackers yet. You have an interesting concept of what “quick” is.
They’re not trying to bring down the government…they’re exercising their First Amendment right to Peacefully assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievance. Sure they brought guns…but they haven’t used them, sure they’re occupying a government building…but they didn’t break in. So far all they’ve really done is trespass.
gotta love the libs yelling KILL THEM KING OBAMA
How about a more down-to-earth: enforce the law as White Conservatives shouldn’t have a free pass either.
They didn’t get a free pass. If you read the article, the group in question paid their debt to society, then were immediately prosecuted again for the same crime. Pretty sure that falls under double jeopardy.
This article sums up the background to this story really well…
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/429214/oregon-rancher-protests-civil-disobedience-justified
They take over a national park in the hope of either the government will give into their demands or risk a violent confrontation? If a group of Black people were to do that they be considered a bunch of no good nippers to be rounded up into jail.
Just like what happened when they rioted in Ferguson and the mayor gave them a free pass to get it all out of their systems, right?
SJW Alert!
“Nippers”? Oh you mean n…….
If there is a revolt, I’m joining it.
It smells like the Whiskey Rebellion. How that worked was DC pretended to be in control of the situation for 15 years and the frontier farmers told them to fuck off at gun point if they ever actually tried to collect the taxes.
well I’d say the shit at the Bundy ranch got out of control:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhJ6H9vlEDA
I’ve also read the feds threatened Dwight Hammond, via his lawyer, to stop talking to Ammon Bundy, or “pain would be brought to his family.” Hmm. Interesting stuff.
– it appears what they’re protesting is the exit of a dump truck and excavator believed to have just been used to bury cattle of Clive Bundy’s that were trapped on federal land, held from the Bundy’s and either killed or starved to death.
Thanks for the video, cool stuff.
“While we cannot condone or endorse any acts of treason or violence against the government”
In my opinion it wouldn’t be anymore treasonous than what your government does to its own people on a daily basis, what none of us should condone is allowing anyone to stoop to their level we are all above them that’s why we are on ROK.
Washington is full of traitors and treason is what the Establishment is all about.
Oh so when White Conservatives want to break the law it’s noble patriotism and how the country was founded but anyone else does it and they’re out of control and need to suppressed?
Notice how no one has been killed? No looting either…oh…also no one has been doused in gasoline and set on fire either. Strange, eh?
It is not because they are white conservatives, it is because they are peaceful. Time to get that through your thick skull.
Nice pseudo.
They’re just politely trespassing?
Loot what? Kill who? There is nothing but grass and weeds out there. According to other comments the nearest “town” is miles away and has a pop of 3,000.
When White people like this protest injustice….. they peacefully take over an empty building and voice their concerns on the news.
When Angry minorities demonstrated in Missouri… they rioted, looted their neighbors, burned down stores and committed FAR more arson than the Hammons ever did.
Do you See the difference?
Boo hoo. Your white butt-buddies did the same thing with the Bundy stand-off, and got away with basically intimidating the federal government to leave Bundy alone. I didn’t know looting is more important than armed upsising to white americans, but oh look white priviledge strikes again :^)
“Oh so when White Conservatives want to break the law it’s noble patriotism and how the country was founded but anyone else does it and they’re out of control and need to suppressed?”
————————–
Oh, so when you leftards make martyrs out of street thugs (thugs that not only do not work for a living but actively poison their own people), disrupt highway commutes (of folks that do work for a living INCLUDING people of color), and instigate riots in those very places where said people of color make a living….
it’s all fighting for
sosh-eeule jus-tee-sh-isthis-isth
but if people that work for a living want the government to leave them be then they’re an outlaw vigilance organization?
I get it.
So Garner who was selling cigarettes was not working for aliving and “poisoned their own people” by selling loose cigs….how?
These ranchers did what they did fully expecting to have to face law enforcement like Garner. But Garner wasn’t making a moral stand against unjust government action. And Garner wasnt killed by violent government police action, he died of a heart attack.
A moral stand? Really, what does that matter. Garner was actively opposing bullshit regulation by ‘doin what you gotta do’ to survive. Why don’t you consider him a hero? Also im pretty sure police tackling someone causes a heart attack. Seems like ‘violent government police action’
Still does’t validate your ‘lol not working for a living and poisoning their own people’
So when White people grabs their guns it “they have just grievances and they can’t take it anymore!” when it’s Black people they’re “out of control ingrates!”
When White people like this protest injustice….. they peacefully take over an empty building and voice their concerns on the news.
When Angry minorities demonstrated in Missouri… they rioted, looted their neighbors, burned down stores and committed FAR more arson than the Hammons ever did.
See the difference?
What’s an example of ‘anyone else’?
Before you give me a concrete example to compare it to I can’t consider your statement.
Ammon Bundy is protesting the treatment of the Hammonds…. I applaud his desire to stand up for what he believes in. This is actually WHY the Founders gave us the Second Amendment….. so that the government couldn’t grow so large and all powerful that it didn’t have to listen and address the concerns of the people.
“Leftists who are howling for the government to put down the Oregon revolt with violent force” Extreme left is called extreme for a reason. They will use everything in their disposal in order to achieve their goals. SJWs are psychopaths and need to be destroyed.
Off topic I apologize but I just read about this incident and thought others here may be interested.
“A Vine star known best for making gun noises and showing off his arsenal has been arrested following an hours-long standoff sparked when his 17-year-old girlfriend called police,”
http://pix11.com/2016/01/04/vine-star-bryan-silva-arrested-after-hours-long-police-standoff/
A social media sensation with more than 460,000 followers on Vine, Silva posted to Facebook as teams of law enforcement surrounded his home. He uploaded a screenshot of a chat in which he wrote, “She betrayed me.”
“While assisting Ammon Bundy’s forces is illegal, given the massive outpouring of support they’ve received from many ordinary Americans, many readers might be tempted to do so. While we cannot condone or endorse any acts of treason or violence against the government…”
Legality does not equal morality. If not, then why are the Nazis and the Communists so villified?
The fact that the government does something doesn’t mean one must obey. The state doesn’t get special exception. There are times when force — properly applied — is legitimate and justified. The final sentence of the article sums it up.
What’s happening here is EXACTLY why the 2nd Amendment exists. The founders explicitly said so.
Slight correction to the article: the Hammonds didn’t serve five years. The elder served a few months and the younger served about a year. What happened is that the federal prosecutors wanted them to serve the minimum 5 years for terrorist-related arson and went to the appeals court to make it happen.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.”
Replace “present King of Britain” with “present U.S. Federal Government and I think we can see the justification for Bundy’s actions.
The founders already created the blueprint for dealing with governments who overstepped their defined powers, hence why that ever so hotly debated 2nd Amendment exist as well.
These people were prosecuted under laws intended for terrorists, yet they were doing a legal burn that got a bit out of control. They burnt about 130 acres which might sound a lot if you are in New York but is virtually nothing if you are 10 miles away from the nearest town, (which only has 3000 population itself.) The Hammonds ranching land was 10,000 acres to put it in perspective.
It was also judged that the government land went up in value after the burn, not down.
I can recommend Stefan Molyneux’s YouTube video, the truth about the Oregon Ranch Stand off for some detail on this.
Thanks for that dose of not-so-common sense.
Like racism, terrorism is now whatever the traitors in government and their media lapdogs say it is. And some of the idiots on this thread.
Why can’t these people run for office and support candidates that better represent their views. If they believe that it should be legal to burn and feed their cattle using federal land then elect someone that will support this.
How cute, someone who still believes in the system.
offer him the red pill
That could be feasible at a town or county level, but this at Federal level. There is no way that issue is big enough to be a deciding factor in a congressional or senate race. And even if a congressperson took up the rancher’s cause they would be going against the wishes of entrenched and well funded Federal agencies and the (misguided) wishes of the environmental lobby. There is no way they would get legislation passed that helped the ranchers.
And you might just say, tough cookies, that’s the way democracies work. BUT… we are a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy and our government is founded on the principle of protecting individual liberties from the government, even if when those liberty depriving ideas are popular.
They have grazing rights for that land, genius. Their rights go back long before the formation of the BLM. Not that facts mean anything to some individuals.
Dude…… they set a back burn to save their home from a fire caused by a lightning strike. They burned one acre of federal and put the fire our themselves. The total “Damage” done was less than 100$ and the burn actually improved the condition of the land. For THAT the BLM branded them terrorists and has shipped them off to prison for 5 years. Meanwhile, their wives are left to pay a $400,000 fine …and are being forced to sell their land to the BLM.
THAT is what Bundy is protesting…the Cruel and Unusual punishment for such a minor ‘crime’
This pretty much describes what’s really happening here.
Serf, slave or drone…pick one!!
Fuck these clowns. The government does not owe you land to graze on any more than a private citizen owes you.
Shamickwa gets $1500 a month for her brood of nigglets and everyone here [rightfully] loses their shit about the welfare parasite. These scum refuse to pay millions of dollars in land usage fees and its supposed to be ok??
Bundy, that scum, owes the government over a million dollars. He’s steal from every single tax payer. He’s stealing from me.
Kill these clowns.
Except:
A. Why is the federal government holding the land in the first place?
B. The ranchers involved in the story were railroaded by Uncle Whiskers simply because they burned some scrub on their own land and one of the fires spread to US occupied–oops, I mean “federally owned” land. Amazingly they were convicted of arson, but a merciful judge gave them light time (lighter than the mandatory minimunm)
C. Another federal judge decided that the ranchers didn’t serve enough time (I kid you not) and sentenced them to 4 more years!
These two ranchers (the Hammonds) are martyrs, not welfare queens. So the occupation makes sense.
A. Don’t know. But it’s still there land. It does not belong to the Hammond scum and they have no rights to it.
B. They where either convicted by a jury of their peers or they plead guilty. Jamal also claims to have been railroaded. Do you believe him? “US Occupied” did you steal that term from a drunken Indian?
C. They are receiving free shit from the government. They are welfare queens by the definition of the erm.
Should you be posting on Salon or Kos?
I believe my IP has been blocked on those sites for obvious reasons:
“Shamickwa”, “brood of nigglets”, ‘welfare parasite”, “drunken Indian”
You never said that stuff.
You’re attempt at street cred has failed.
Only a liberal would think we get banned from sites because of the WORDS we use.
So kindly go back to doing whatever you were doing at the SPHICSM Southern Poverty of Homeland Investigations Center for Shitlib Manginas before you started sock puppeting.
Look two posts up, moron.
“The government does not owe you land to graze on ”
——————
Tell that to a feminist.
I do.
“Fuck these clowns. The government does not owe you land to graze on any more than a private citizen owes you.”
>>>>>Not an issue here….keep up.
“Bundy, that scum, owes the government over a million dollars. He’s steal from every single tax payer. He’s stealing from me.”
>>>>>Not an issue here.
“Kill these clowns.”
>>>So exercising your first ammendment right to assemble is a capitol crime in your eyes huh?
team bundy
lol i kept thinking BLM meant black lives matter movement hahaha. awkward
Pay your taxes, don’t destroy public property, don’t put other people’s lives at risk. I’m tired of these double standards that I see everywhere. If you have a double standard the next time you have a grievance people won’t take you as seriously. Pretty simple stuff, folks.
One only has to look at the issue of illegal immigration to see that the Federal government is, and has been for some time, now a force against the American people and the US Constitution.
Both Republican and Democratic administrations have not tried to do anything to stop so-called sanctuary cities. That is entire cities are allowed to openly break federal law and allow illegal aliens to invade and stay in the US.
And yet the minute one county or sheriff attempt to uphold their oath and actually uphold the laws on illegal immigration then the Federal government will go to war with them. Indeed Clinton and Obama have sided with the UN against American citizens trying to uphold US law.
From the 1950s onward the Far Left began a long march through the institutions and in particular was determined to destroy white society and white civilisation and they know that illegal immigration, and indeed mass legal immigration from the Third World, will achieve this. In this area of law it is crystal clear that the Federal government is the enemy of the people.
Do you recall Charles Manson’s idea of starting a race war where he believed the blacks would win and take over the world BUT would find they weren’t fit to run it and would then turn over the reigns to him and his small clique of remaining white dudes?
Ever wonder if that was originally Manson’s idea or if he got it from some leftist meme floating about in a few places back then?
If the latter then could NWO be the descendant of such a meme?
Lately I’ve wondered if the plan is to eliminate all but a handful of white elites on top.
Then the elites never have to worry about losing power because of the mean IQ differences in the races.
“I’m a white guy and I’m mad because the US government isn’t being fair to me!”
Poor babies. Welcome to life for literally everybody else on the fucking planet for the last 60+ years.
Before, the rest of us were just whiney assholes. Now all of a sudden since it affects you it’s “We gotta fix the system! Down with the tyranny of the state!”
LOL
“Welcome to life for literally everybody else on the fucking planet for the last 60+ years.”
—————————–
Yep, before the 1940’s and 50’s black folks lived like kings and had white folks pickin’ cotton for them just like that old Eddie Murphy SNL skit “Cottonland”.
LOL
Over 600,000 whites died to liberate lazy blacks shits during the Civil War.
Go ahead and post again once blacks make any meaningful sacrifice to oppose tyranny for the sake of other races.
Learn how to read.
Unlike blacks, whites are not of one hive mind.
The difference is, they’re not just whining, they’re actually doing something about it.
And everyone has the right to speak up if they feel something is wrong with the system.
So you’re upset because white people, as usual, are the only ones who’ve bothered to get anything done to help their own situation? And they do so while fighting endlessly for the last few decades to help everyone else too?
Go back to Reddit, faggot.
You obviously haven’t been paying attention.
Y’all Qaeda and Vanilla ISIS. That’s pretty funny.
Not after you realize that there is no difference between the people who coined those sophomoric terms and the ones that are running things. Ordinarily, I’d find this funny too, but, not when we live in a society that will somehow tolerate that, which is clearly aimed towards white people, but if someone coined a similar term for Blacklivesmatters there would be an uproar. And its a stark reminder that apparently some groups can never be racist or sexist even when they do racist and sexist things while only others can.
Amazing to see how the Feds can shit on citizens and wipe their asses with the Constitution.
They just ignored the Fifth (Grand Jury indictment, double jeopardy, and due process), and Eighth (Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted) – in order to shit all over some ranchers.
I don’t condone violence either – if I did, the Karges’ house would be on fire right now.
This will be a touchy subject, comment at your own discretion because they will likely be reading these lol.
I don’t know. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the ‘targeting’ policies of the feds. It seems that the staging of the theater for the false flag ops they run weekly like a TV series takes up most of their resources. ‘Government’ isn’t in control these days as much is it is in the business of making the governed populace ‘feel’ like they’re controlled. Most ‘control’ is self control as a result of intimidation. It’s the impression of being controlled. And security is the ‘illusion’ of safety. When they bust someone and drag their name across the screen, it’s some valedictorian kid that gets busted and expelled for accidentally packing a butter knife in his backpack to school. ‘ZERO TOLERANCE’ is their main stormfront which is why they make examples of the meekest violators. It intimidates the shit out of more sheeple per trial than going after the real heart of the people and the real heart of the resistance. They’d rather co opt the powerhouse of resistance than destroy it.
The rhyme/reason is this: food is a weapon in the feds’ war against the people. That’s why they are doing what they can to squash independent farmers and ranchers. Have you noticed what’s happened to beef prices in the last few years? You ain’t seen nothin’ yet. Armed resistance isn’t feasable when you’re starving to death. When reality finally catches up with the economy, people will be begging to be relocated to internment camps if it means food, medicine and shelter.
The US was never a tribal monarchy. The powers believe they owe nothing to the architects and builders of our culture. From the get go, small hat merchants, traders and finance conglomerates went to work conquering the new economic frontier of the Americas. The plantation system in the south had no racial loyalty, only cheap third world slave labor outsourcing all local jobs. The bottom line. Even the coast to coast rail projects two centuries ago kept the bottom line with the lowest cost Japanese serf labor. The mega agra conquest that today follows the salted pioneers who tilled the virgin land has no feasible use now for the original settlers and homesteaders. The pioneers did their job clearing hostile tribes, tilling virgin ground, laying roadways and now they’re marginalized.
Similar to rural development, urban development also sheds its progenitors. In the mega industrial cities, original Dutch and German craftsmen and carpenters efficiently and quickly laid the plat and built dwellings and infrastructure in the model and tradition of their home countries. They rebuilt a little slice of their old countries. (US mega cities differ from ‘plantation nation’ metropolis cities that have miles of shanty town districts adjacent to the central jewel of skyscrapers like Johannesburg) Upon US cities being laid out and built, three and four generations later the major US industrial cities were all intentionally flooded with cheap third world slave labor. Home prices drop and whites ‘flee’ leaving behind a pristine and solid functioning infrastructure which is vacant and ready for a new economy of wage slave industry. With the bottom line reached again, the money flows toward the center and the mega towers and skyscrapers then sprout in the central financial districts. This same pattern is seen in ‘boom’ after building ‘boom’. (original settlers are outsourced and replaced with invasive group)
Now with open borders, war on masculinity, fluoride, salient education and deconstruction of sexuality for the proleys, free head meds handed out like candy (the great brain screw project) and church chorus of sheeple singing ”baaah”, the plantation system now enters the age of scientific control. Massive groups of people are now deemed as obscolete and slated for slow kill. People need to wake up and realize that when they’ve just been mega brain screw donkey shit kicked in the head, then they need to realize that it’s all orchestrated. It is all prelude to a culling, a purge. When your economic worth is outlived and surpassed and you’re preparing to be flushed, then realize it’s time to get the hell out of Dodge or go one up stir crazy rebel brigade. It’s that desparate now. Money has no tribal loyalty.
It’s difficult to forecast what the new catalyst or life changing addition will be to life here on Earth. An unlimited source of energy perhaps? Before any more great leaps are taken we must first get back control of our females or else we’ll burn on the launchpad. We must also solidify tribal identity. SOLIDIFY!
Hail the patriarchy!
All 150 of these self-styled “militamen” will be dead or in jail by the end of March, guaranteed.
Question: if the government is really that evil and tyrannical, and if it obviously has the means to wipe them out in 15 minutes, why are these men still alive?
all political power comes from the barrel of a gun. seems kind of harsh sending folks to jail over a fire without a permit. Frankly I think this is all theater. So much drama and fake news on the t.v who knows if its really real.
This is beginning to remind me of the 1919-1922 miners strike, rather than the David Koresh issue, which itself, should have been handled to avoid any deaths. Why Janet Reno didn’t go to jail for the Waco Massacre, I don’t know. But anyway, this is not the first labor/government issue and won’t be the last. The government refuses to let the ‘blue collar’ world do their work and continue to be independent of government handouts (government slavery).
If you truly don’t know why, you need the red pill.
It’s priceless to see the leftist degenerates cry war and thirsty for blood simply because the protesters are white. (and independent) Meanwhile the negroes from BLM riot and rob and all we hear is silence.
I like how ROK is trying to justify the brothers. I feel confident that if they were non-whites, this articles title and message would be completely different
Stop reading race baiting MSM.
I don’t read msm
If the Bundys were non-white…. they wouldn’t be sticking their necks out to support a pair of white guys in jail.
So Utah is basically 97% Fed owned? Wow..
I like how the liberals cry about a couple of guys camping out in an abandoned building to protest the judicial system they call it “violence and terrorism….” but when Obama’s sons burn down multiple fucking cities, attack white people, their “activists” kill at least a dozen people in murders throughout the country, and pillage every bottle of malt liquor or pair of Air Jordan’s they can find… that’s a “peaceful and legitimate form of protest.”
What a dumb protest. If the American government couldn’t do anything worse to us than locking up a lot of desert and wilderness to preserve it from development, we would still have it pretty good in this country.
How about protesting a really damaging government policy, namely, opening up our borders to derelicts from the world’s Orckistans? This human trash and its spawn will continue to degrade the quality of life in our country for generations.
They are protesting the BLM flooding 7 familes out of the Valley and then shipping the Hammonds off the Prison for 5 years over a minor offense, so they can sieze their land.
This story also sheds light on the scam that the “survivalist” industry has going for it. These kinds of guys spend way too much money on “survival” equipment that they will never have to use. The ones who don’t wind up in jail from stupidity will probably die in nursing homes of old age, in a society that has stayed functional throughout their lives. The 70’s era survivalist guru Kurt Saxon turns 84 this year, and he has wasted his life prepping for an apocalypse that will never come in his lifetime, when he could have done more rewarding things with his time and money.
We will have to see how the US government’s reaction to this contrasts with the Canadian Governments’ reaction to Indians and their various armed occupations and “protests” (Oka, Caledonia, CN rail tracks, highways, etc.). Let’s just see how much “white privilege” these guys get.
Well “Black Privilege ” was the ability to riot and loot Ferguson Missouri without consequence, over imaginary injustice. “White Privilege” is a bunch of White ranchers peacefully occupying a building ….and the Internet exploding with people branding them terrorists and calling for airstrikes to slaughter them.
I said somewhere else that while i admire and actively support the premise(s) of the ranchers i think the Bundy’s have picked the wrong fight. 50 guys holding an abandoned building in the middle of almost no where is “pissing into a Hurricane”. How about 1 million strong taking a stroll up Pennsylvania ave to the White House, legally armed, and just walk through the gates and toss the half wit into the Potomac … let me know what day I’ll bring 100 of my friends
The government needs to violate peoples rights because it operates from the fundamental premise of coercion. It has a monopoly on violence and force. Taxes aren’t voluntary. A product of your labor gets stolen from you every day. It pays for women, retirees that ransacked the economy, and bankster bailouts among other things. Don’t like it? puck you! What are you gonna do about it? Big government has bigger guns..
The idea of natural law is that humans are qualitatively different from other animals. Specifically, we are capable of building civilizations and advancing our own well-being through peaceful voluntary cooperation.
Our silence is consent to the false ideology of moral relativism. Rights have roots in natural law and exist independent of any government…
The type of world without government would rarely breed “criminals” anyway. Imagine a community where the government doesn’t steal from everyone. Imagine if you could provide goodwill by choice and not at gunpoint. Imagine the excess resources you’d have without paying tax, without inflationary currency, corruption etc. Of course we’d have voluntary central services but the free market would create efficiency we don’t see today.
Obviously there are problems that need to be ironed out, but humans will eventually need to break free from this subversion of free will.
Well lets see how this Y’all – Quaeda situation plays out…
Coming to a community near you.
Here in New England the USFWS just boldly proclaimed that within the next 10 years they plan on acquiring over 200,000 acres of land that currently resides in private hands. This will be done using eminent domain if necessary. No one in the region affected has had any say in the process. The USFWS is the Fed Guv agency of choice for land acquisition because they don’t rely on congressionally approved funding. Instead they get the money they need via royalties paid to the US Gunvernment from Big Oil – for offshore drilling. Known as the LCHIP program the money generated can only be used for land acquisition. And its a lot. We are talking over a billion dollars a year. You can buy a shit ton of private land – every year – with a billion dollars.
Its all part of Agenda 21.
For now we are allowed to drive our cars – but only so long as the government is getting money from fuel being put in the tanks. This money is then used to buy massive amounts of private land which slowly over time forces the population to migrate and live in urban areas, surrounded by people you may not like or agree with. Who says there is no conspiracy?
http://wspa.com/2016/01/09/more-armed-protesters-join-occupation-of-oregon-refuge/
I’d say in the next 7-10 days we’ll be reaching a boiling point with this. More muscle jsut showed up.. multi-state group.
Not sure if such a murky scenario is the best one to spark a revolt. There are plenty of blatant federal abuses that would be a better hill on which to fight.
I also wonder if some agents provacateurs might not be at work behind the scenes.
Some ovine blowhard in this thread keeps insisting that the Hammonds are being persecuted because they are getting something without paying for it. No, this is about a fire, A-D-D Boy.
The picture is getting a little more clarity.
“First, the Hammonds had federal permission to conduct a controlled burn
on their property. The burn did get out of control and drifted onto
vacant federal land. Nobody was hurt, no structures were damaged. Yet,
the federal prosecutors, in a case of prosecutorial abuse, tried the
father-son duo for arson, but under the domestic terrorist statutes.” -TCSS