When men think of the word “game,” there is a lot of confusion when trying to pinpoint which behaviors attract a woman. Men usually break down into two camps.
“He got her because he’s rich/handsome/tall/has an awesome job.”
The first camp believes a man gets women not because of who he is, but what he is. The second camp is exactly the opposite:
“He got her because he has tight game.”
Both camps have valid points. A man who is rich, handsome, tall, and has an awesome job, has clear advantages over the average man. Yet there are plenty of rich/tall/handsome men resorting to hookers or working obscene hours with no vagina to show for it (except an aging gold-digger wife).
Likewise, a man with game would be nothing if he was broke. So which camp has it right?
They both are, but they’re talking past each other. The missing distinction is between passive and active game.
Passive game includes all the ways you can improve oneself over long periods of time, such as earning money, building a career, lifting at the gym, getting a fashion overhaul, learning a new language, and acquiring drugs for use as party favors.
Active game includes your immediate behaviors that directly affect an interaction with a woman, such as being charming, funny, witty, displaying some backbone, remembering to ask to use her bathroom when you drop her off at her house, etc. It’s what most players refer to when speaking of a man’s “game.”
Ideally a man wants to have strong passive and active game. Both are necessary to getting laid at all, but, depending on the man, it can be profitable to focus on your passive or active game.
Passive game will determine the quality of the women a man attracts, while active game will determine the quantity of the women he bangs. Passive game gets a woman’s initial interest, but it takes active game to close the deal. Passive game is the product, active game is the sales pitch.
So if a man wants to bang hotter girls, he needs to increase his value via passive game. But if his dry spells are unacceptably long, he should be spending the majority of his time developing his active game.
Which side of your game needs improvement?
Both, really badly, but I am going to focus on passive game. Improved passive game will no doubt improve my self-confidence, whereas if I focus on active game first, I’m going to have to bullshit in so many ways that it will just blow up in my face.
I think this is a common sentiment. Most guys instinctively work on their passive game first, but my experience tells me it’s best to work on your active game before your passive game.
The reason is simple: Until you’ve developed a successful active game model, you don’t know what type of environment is best for you with acquiring new girls.
But once you do have a model, then you’ll be able to structure the rest of your life to increase your value via passive game.
If you do it the opposite way, and develop your passive game first, then you might find your best gaming spots are at odds with job you picked up.
For example, if you can get laid non-stop at a museum during the day, it would be best to take a night job so you can focus on your day gaming efforts. But if you pick up that 9-5 job first and later discover you’d be best at the museum between the hours of 1-4 pm, then by taking the job you’ve screwed yourself out of a gaming avenue.
Going from active to passive has it’s own challenges as well. It’s like driving a Corvette and then buying a tank. Yeah your vehicle is stronger, but it’s slow as hell.
Also with active it’s generally a straight line to sex (after putting in many attempts). With passive you can wind up in purgatory where you have some attraction but don’t have opportunities to escalate.
Thanks Samseau. What you are saying makes sense. Perhaps it would be best to get a basic level of passive game as a sort of foundation, and then branching out and engaging in some active game experience. Right now I feel like I’m unready, but when I’m at a comfortable enough level of passive (like having some income, skills, and physically presentable), I will be sure to study and practice active game.
However, if things go according to plan, my career will be location-independent, and my game avenues would not be limited.
Don’t necessarily rush into working on the passive side first.
The social skills picked up on the “active game” side of things really helps with stuff like sales, some job interviews, and other aspects of building the structural factors, or what they refer to as “passive game” here, so there’s also a way active can support passive.
Also, as a man who built a strong set of the structural factors and was blessed with height, but beta to his core, I have to tell you that “paper alpha purgatory” is a frustrating and confusing place to be, and at least for me, it messed with my confidence as much as it supported it (compartmentalizing things, asking myself “why, when I have all this going for me, am I such a failure at getting girls?” and thus having my status affect my specific confidence when it came to dealing with women).
Honestly, I think I had to work just as hard to get more sociable, overcome my anti-game, and start to control my beta side as I would’ve before I embarked on my professional journey.
You are 100% right that confidence is the biggest thing, but waiting until you get confidence from a job or from making a lot of money can take a LONG time with only limited benefits (at least in terms of game). Start going to the gym a couple times a week and within a month or so you’ll start noticing results that will have you feeling great about yourself, whether you’re gaining muscle tone or just lost a noticable 5 lbs.
You don’t need to be ripped (and you don’t need to be rich), you just need to be able to smile genuinely.
Hell, I go to the gym, but this is not true for me. For some reason, on my days off from the gym I feel like shit, self doubt creeps in and eats away at me. After doing a shit ton of approaches, I’d say my confidence got worse, because I couldn’t close. I’m finishing my last year of college. and it isn’t helping when all my buddies are bragging about the cuties they banged. My school went to shit together with my self confidence. It would help me a great deal if I could find a dude that would sit down with me, help go over my game, straighten out contrasting ideas, and show me (help me?) get laid at least once. I wouldn’t be able to offer him much in return, but I wish I could….
If I could do it but once, I will have a reference success in my head that I can strive to repeat.
When you are on your own, staggering around having no clue how to do something, getting laid looks daunting….I have no idea how to do it.
need to improve both…22yr old virgin 🙁
why would you need to use the girls bathroom?
It’s a move to get into a girl’s apartment. After using the bathroom, you try to have sex with her.
The girl might want you to come upstairs, but be hesitant to ask…it gives her an excuse for things to happen.
i lol’d at rocko’s comment…after drinking the koolaid for so many years, it’s funny to hear a nice refreshing and honest question.
rocko: you ask to use the bathroom when dropping her off as an excuse to further the interaction, weaseling your way into her house and hopefully onto some more fun activities.
I agree with the general thrust of your distinction, but I don’t know about its wording. Using “passive” to describe a cluster of activities that necessarily require strenuous effort is odd. Phrasing determines mental framing, which is foundational, so carefully crafted terminology is important, especially when you want to underscore and affirm a person’s agency.
Both as well…but I’ve found it’s quicker to learn active game. Passive game intrigues me because it is more challenging but will be the most rewarding if you can achieve it.
So what’s up with the accompanying picture of Mark Zuckerburg and his girl?
My initial thought was that it was to show how having money, as well as an awesome job, don’t play into the quality of women you get.
But by your definition of passive game, shouldn’t Zuckerberg be bagging better looking girls? He is a self-made billionaire, incredibly smart, hard working, probably has a personal trainer, etc. Sure, he dresses like a chump, but by all intents and purposes, he has made successful long-term efforts to become a better person.
However, he isn’t banging college cuties. How do you explain that in terms of active/passive game?
(and yes, I am playing Devil’s Advocate a little bit here)
Zuckerburg has awesome passive value, but he can’t close. It takes a real chump mindset to believe that a woman like Priscilla Chan is your soulmate. How many other women has he had for a relevant comparison? The answer is none, since Chan has been with him since Harvard.
Zuckerburg is just another Petraeus incident waiting to happen.
I think guys like you might have some difficulty understanding guys like zuckerburg or gates. For them the pussy thing is just a check box to mark off the agenda. They really don’t care all that much and are wrapped up in things they find more interesting.
Question: what was the “passive” value of Saint Francis? He walked away from riches to lead a holy life. But thousands, including many, many women, sought him out to follow him. Yet he remained chaste. Beta? I think not. Just wired differently.
Passive game doesn’t directly determine the quality of girls scored, only the potential quality. Active game directly determines what you can pull and how often you can pull.
I’d like to think that most guys learning pickup have decent value (say 6-7s) but score lower because they got no game and wind up dating 5s, or not dating at all since 5s aren’t very worth dating. Pickup skills let them achieve their potential to score 6-7s. This gives much better returns for time/effort than trying to pump up their value only to have the effect that they are hoping for severely undermined and discounted by their lack of game
Only after acquiring basic seduction skills (which one might argue actually adds to passive game as well because base personality improves, experiences enriched etc), will it be more worth it to pursue passive game. E.g. higher status for privileged access to hot girls, money to lubricate things and remove obstacles etc. But really all these things mean very little without game.
I would say it’s better do develop your active game first, it’s faster and will bring you a better understanding into the realities of human nature. Playing with an inferior hand is a better training.
Then once you can pull 6es and 7s with active game rather easily, start working on your passive game to start pulling 8s and above. Learning passive game without active game has a risk that you concentrate on it too much and become a beta.
Passive game will help you attract women but only active game will help you to have a true upper hand in any relationship past ONS.
> Yet there are plenty of rich/tall/handsome men resorting to hookers or working obscene hours with no vagina to show for it (except an aging gold-digger wife).
^ I can’t even begin to comprehend the level of sickness that it would take to think like this.
This is great. I interpreted this analogy as it applies to me personally. Passive is my arsenal and active is my attack plan and specialized tactics. I’ve recently and drastically improved my passive game (grad school, new adventurous event based job in large American city, MMA training) after several months of planning and in that hyper focused state, my active has lagged and I’ve gained a slight sense of entitlement (naturally from bang/confidence/self education) coupled with a pretty short fuse for female’s horseshit.
I’ve taken a huge liking to Roosh’s hard nosed philosophy and the “red pill/16 commandments of poon” lifestyle ever since my buddy sent me to his site this past summer. I’ve always had pimp bones in my body as a big fan of macklessonsradio.com which preaches valuing yourself over women and keeping them accountable. In high school/undergrad my active was highly strong and the passive was shaky so I’m looking to strike that balance.
I’ve hit that “purgatory” like buddy above me mentioned only because of that quicker fuse for bullshitting ass smart mouthed women which helps and hurts at the same time. I’m 25 and want to zero in on the nice selection of upper echelon cougs bc bitches my age want to be a stripper one night and celibate the next week. What you fellas think?
I see Zuckerberg with that mediocre girl and want to puke.
Blargh is wrong about this. Even if guys like Zuckerberg just have a wife as a check mark on an agenda, they still want that check mark to be quality. Guys like Zuckerberg are the competitive types who want a trophy wife and will pay for that trophy wife with money. I think we’ve all seen guys like this, rich guys with a trophy wife who eat whatever shit their trophy wife throws at them.
Zuckerberg just has piss poor game. Even a guy with average game, if he had Zuckerberg’s money, could do much better than Zuckerberg has done with his wife.
this posts reminds me of western game vs eastern game on rooshv blog
I just had a eureka moment from one of the related sites. “Do you want to get laid or make a point?”
http://nexxtlevelup.com/game/do-you-want-to-get-laid-or-make-a-point
That along with the “Are educate women more feminist?” article on that site as well. I haven’t been closing because I’m too busy checking woman on their unwarranted, constant smart ass remark. I try to remain oak tree against the shit tests but there’s a point where you have to set the tone for the remainder of the interaction or night.
It’s like Robert Greene said “seem dumber than your mark” “win the war, not the battles”
All that tit for tat is irrelevant once she’s using your cum as Colgate.
I’ve always looked at Passive and Active game like this…
Active Game is the ‘Foundation’.
Passive Game is the ‘icing on the cake’.
If you can develop a skill set where your personality is attractive enough to score girls without having to display any material possessions. Then having then possessions will simply be a bonus.
It can never be the opposite. I have a friend who’s with a girl who has let him give it up the ass. And she’s never allowed it to anyone but him. And both of her boyfriends are rich business men with class.
Goes to show, the Active Game and having an attractive personality is everything.
I’m confused: what do you consider personality Active Game or Passive Game? I believer Active Game is just the approaching and your talent at closing the deal to get the lay.
Quote: “Passive game includes all the ways you can improve oneself over long periods of time, such as earning money, building a career, lifting at the gym, getting a fashion overhaul, learning a new language, and acquiring drugs for use as party favors.”
You don’t think there is something seriously wrong with the last item listed? Acquiring drugs? Having drugs to get laid is the same as paying for a hooker. Drugs, like money is a tangible resource and has nothing to due with game but rather a transaction between you and the skag spreading her legs for you simply because you got her high.
Quote: “remembering to ask to use her bathroom when you drop her off at her house, etc.”
You actually do this? What does a chick think when you ask to use her shitter? Most likely “OMG he’s probably going to take a huge nasty crap and stink up the place” I never ask to use the bathroom of my date, ever.
Those two suggestions are just plain bizarre.
What’s your methodology when you use to ask a girl out? Perhaps say to her: “Don’t eat anything for three days, because I’m taking you out for a steak the size of a toilet seat.” ?
enlightening post. I now realize I mostly ran passive game, since I started ” enjoying life” by running active game. however I now feel I need to refocus on my passive game, it is like the battery which provides me time and money to enjoy life.
So Passive Game combines two of the 3 elements of being successful with women: Looks, Money and adds personality portion too. The third part was Game or Active Game
http://www.PartyTravelSexLove.com
Very interesting read