How To Make Out With A Girl Without Getting “The Cheek”

One of the key pieces of game advice that most men would do well to internalise is to become more sexual with the women they date. In my experience, the thing that really separates successful seducers from onanistic dilettante entertainers is their ability to move things forward physically on a date or in a club. Key to this is the ability to kiss (i.e. make out with) a girl successfully at the right time.

The truth about makeouts

club

Unfortunately a makeout does not mean that you will sleep with any given girl. Guys new to game can get very excited about kissing new girls in nightclubs, little realising how infrequently such dalliances convert into lays. If the number of girls I’ve slept with is in the hundreds, then the number of makeouts I’ve had sits comfortably in the thousands.

Why should this be the case? My theory is that while girls of course get supremely horny (particularly just prior to their periods), because their requirement for sex is generally less urgent than men’s, they can enjoy the sexual frisson that a makeout can bring without necessarily feeling compelled to follow through to sex. For this reason you should take care not to be the “club makeout guy” — essentially just an entertainer, as unmemorable for her after a night out as the cloakroom staff.

All of that said, makeouts are without a doubt very important in the seduction process. Why? It’s very simple. While you can in theory sleep with a girl without having kissed her first, no girl who won’t kiss you will go to bed with you. Therefore a makeout serves the dual purpose of testing her compliance while simultaneously pumping her state and getting her turned on.

Fear

why-women-reject-men2

For many guys starting out, though, the idea of going in for a kiss is terrifying — principally because they are afraid that the girl will turn her cheek and reject it. In a way, their fear is justifiable, as it speaks to the compliance significance of makeouts we’ve just discussed. As even the most sheltered chode intuits, a kiss separates a friendly, “friend zone”-type interaction from a sexually charged one. So there’s a lot riding on “going in for the kill,” as failure means that you have been rejected as a sexual prospect – a crushing thought for many new guys.

A lot of men — myself included when I started — would rather not risk it and so they keep chatting away about inconsequential nonsense, hopefully that something will happen naturally. But here’s a pro tip: it won’t. Women very rarely if ever initiate physical interactions. As the guy it’s your job to do so, so you must man up and get to work.

How to go in for a kiss

first-kiss

One of the biggest realizations I’ve had in game is just how frequently girls will reject your first attempt at a kiss even when she’s attracted to you. This may sound like small beans in the world’s philosophical insights but it’s actually incredibly freeing. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been on a date with a girl only for her to give me the cheek again and again, sometimes five times or more, before finally acquiescing to the makeout. If only I’d have known this back when I was a teenager, when one rejected kiss would have meant months in my bedroom listening to The Smiths, covered in shame.

In order to set things up as effectively as possible for a successful makeout you first need to ensure you’re physical with her from the off. Little touches count. A kiss on both cheeks when you first meet her, touches to her lower arms and shoulders while you make points, a firm hand on her lower back as you guide her through a busy venue. All of these things, though minor in themselves, will help to build up a sense of physical intimacy between you, ensuring that the kiss, when it does come, won’t seem half as jarring or unexpected.

Now that you are comfortable with one another, you are ready to make out. But when is the “right” time? While there is no exact prescription for this, I can guarantee that you can kiss her sooner than you think. In fact, given what I’ve already said about girls’ tendencies to turn down initial attempts even when they’re attracted, then you might as well start as early as possible.

These days, I will usually go in for a kiss within the first fifteen minutes, sometimes sooner. Why waste time? As a general rule of thumb though, if you’re not confident in being so bold, the girl will signal that she’s ready to be kissed in a very subtle way. Usually there will be a small pause in the conversation and she’ll shoot you a micro-glance, as though she’s expectant of something. This is the point at which you must act – if you don’t then the moment will be lost and you may not recover it.

To kiss her, place your hand confidently but gently on her cheek. If you want, you can caress her face a little or stroke her hair. Then move her face so that she is looking at you. Now move in close, without hesitating, aiming your lips at hers. If you receive no resistance then go for it. After your lips have touched she should open her mouth slightly, allowing you to put your tongue in. You can now move your hand away from her face, perhaps moving it to her leg to sexualise things a little. A good way to spice the kiss up and display dominance is to bite her bottom lip gently. This stops things from getting too vanilla.

Getting “The Cheek”

kiss

What to do if you “get the cheek”? As discussed, in many cases, especially if you’ve gone in early, she will reject your first attempts by turning her head away when you try to kiss her. Many men are so horrified by this eventuality that they are scared even to make an attempt, but you shouldn’t be. Instead, just realise that it happens to everyone and that it’s part of the process.

Smirk, pull back, talk about neutral topics and then try again a little later. Sometimes it takes four or even five attempts before your kiss will be reciprocated – that’s absolutely fine, unless of course she is very angrily telling you to back off, in which case things have gone irrevocably wrong and you should apologize and leave immediately. But if she’s still sitting there then you can be confident that she’s interested and that it’s your job to persist.

In the end you can be confident that, as long as you don’t look fazed or butthurt, this tactic will work and good things will follow.

Read More: Five Reasons Why Skeptics Are Wrong And You Need to Learn Game 

263 thoughts on “How To Make Out With A Girl Without Getting “The Cheek””

  1. “If she won’t kiss you then she certainly won’t have sex with you”
    Well, I can tell you from first hand experience that this is wrong.
    I penetrated a few women who didn’t kiss me before intercourse or even during intercourse. Who the hell needs kissing anyways? It’s disgusting watching all the creeps tongueing each other like dogs. Female spit isn’t on my list of favourite dishes.

    1. I personally enjoy it most about all of what involves lovemaking, kissing is the most intimate thing, and properly kissing women, also across their body, will thieve their hearts away.

        1. Eating pussy and being all tender and shit is submissive chick servicing. A good chick puts your pleasure above her own.

        2. I like to grab random girls asses that I like when I say hello to them and if they react badly then I say ohhhh my bad didn’t know you were a lesbian…works everytime

        3. You have no idea how to “possess” a woman do you, it’s not to just service her, these women will respond to these things by becoming your love slave. Regret rape is the sentiment women get from guys like you, who fuck her, yet are afraid to stick around after the act, beta’s do this because they don’t want women to find out what douches they are the next day, go read the 16th commandment of poon idiot, you gotta own her body, and take possession of her. i’m not doing it against my will purely to service her, i do it because because i genuinely do wanna lick every inch of her, i get lots of enjoyment from it. and she responds to those things with extended BJ’s … totally unannounced, in the train late at night when there’s no other passengers in the cabin.

        4. Who said i was being “tender and submissive” it’s the opposite of being tender and submissive when you TAKE POSSESSION of her … not submission, but taking possessive ownership over her body.
          God you guys are pathetic dweebs… you’re bound to get a regret rape charge at some point.

        1. Eh, I think this almost smacks of “germ phobia” type thinking. Women wash and brush their teeth, at least the ones of better upbringing do. Human beings are petri dishes of all kinds of bizarre thing, if kissing is eschewed due to these kinds of concerns I hate to tell y’all what can happen with vaginal penetration.

        2. It is important to force yourself to remember what filthy animals these beasts are. Otherwise you could get suckered into their game. Next thing you know you are spending sunday with her family and looking for a ring. The correct response to “when are we going to get serious about our relationship” is always “when you invent a time machine, go back in time and take away all your filthy prostitute behavior”

        3. The correct response to “when are we going to get serious about our relationship” is always “when you invent a time machine, go back in time and take away all your filthy prostitute behavior”
          That’s high level pimp game right there, heh.

        4. No, high level pimp game would be me thinking that that was a funny thing for me to say, going out, meeting a girl, spending a few weeks impressing her just to lead her to ask that very question so I can give that answer.
          It is a serious investment in time and resources, but a good line is usually worth it.
          Oh to have a Margret Dumont of my very own.

        5. there is no amount of tooth brushing that can make a girl who was intestines deep on several frat houses for 4 years of college kissable.

        6. she had her moments for sure…still, I like her best as the snooty dowager. Groucho once said that she was perfect for the role she played because she never got any of the jokes. Someone who thought any of it was funny would have failed miserably.

        7. Biologically a penis belongs inside a vagina to make lots of babies.
          Slurping the spit out of another mouth doesn’t make any sense AND it doesn’t feel good. Why would I do it? A kiss on the mouth is fine but that tongue stuff is really weird and looks really weird…especially for people over the age of 20.
          Women love aggressiveness and the unexpected. Bite her neck instead of kissing her mouth, that’s what I’m doing. I’m avoiding her tongue by all means necessary 😉

        8. I was talking from the “gross” factor, which I don’t really accept fwiw. Kissing sure as hell feels good, to me anyway (and most people). Over examining anything can make it out to be “gross”. As they say, if you ever want to give up sausage, go see how it’s made.

        9. don’t need to imagine. I estimate, conservatively, that 114% of women over the age of 21 have had a minimum of 18 different men’s cum dripping off their face at some point. Also, that number grows by 10% a year and that is compounded annually so at 31 the minimum number of semen samples the girl you are kissing has had all over her face is 46 — and I rounded down.

        10. GoJ….the stink is ontological. They can’t brush their soul.. They may get the cum out of their eyes, but that doesn’t mean they can see clearly.
          I think of some of the absolutely vile things women have begged me for and then I smile and imagine the sucker that is kissing them now.

        11. Notice how women back then even looked good with those short flapper haircuts.
          Women these days, if they cut their hair, they are practically men with vaginas, only lacking agency and logic.

        12. It’s the lack of manjaw I think that really helps boost the feminity. Girls now are so high T and aggressive that they look like teenaged boys, so when they crop the hair they basically become the opposite of attractive to normal heterosexual men.

        13. ah ! that was my thought. especially young slim lesbians, they look like small teenages boys. i call them the “small tintins” (reference to a belgium/french cartoon tintin). errk.

        14. The next time you eat in a restaurant, try to estimate how many mouths have been on that fork, how many people have eaten on those plates, and how many snotty noses have been wiped with that nice soft napkin you are now putting on your lips.

        15. Worse than that mate, you spent nine months inside her fucking body and then came out head first through her pussy covered in blood, slime and probably a little urine.
          You gross lil bastard.

        16. Forks can be washed clean. They don’t have souls to tarnish…souls that can never be free of the taint of the….well, taint.

        17. Here’s something that will gross you out. Did you know that bacteria in your body outnumber your body’s cells 10 to 1? Eeeeeeuuuu gross! You can never be clean!
          🙂

        18. I’m not a germaphobe…I can’t stress it enough time…the dirt i am worried about is metaphysical dirt…..look into any strippers eyes…she can be clean as a brand new penny and smell like heaven mixed with body lotion…she is still filthy and dead inside.

        19. I agree that women shouldn’t be judged on past sexual experience. Even women who are virgins are whores

        20. Coitus itself seems “gross” to any child presented with the idea. All sorts of sex acts seem gross to people who are less experienced sexually.

        21. She isn’t confessing—that bitch is bragging.
          Doesn’t need church either. Any beta simp will give a whore absolution

        22. Yes we are, men can’t have children by their own, that’s why we want virgins to raise our genetic children no a bastard. We have been always better in a myriad of ways

        23. I was talking about licking and kissing her body, like running your tongue down her legs, and about rim-jobs, a friend of mine is a porn producer for the german porn marked and i get invited to parties he throws at times, and you don’t even wanna know half of the shit i’ve done with girls who work for him.

        24. are you saying you want women who behave badly in bed, but then you dump them… because they behave badly in bed? So does that mean that you want to eventually settle down with someone who won’t give you good sex? Or do you imagine you will be playing the game till you’re 90 years old?

        25. I don’t dump them, I simply never commit to them. As for getting laid until I am 90, I certainly hope not. I would like to think that my desire to have sex will have long since past by then and I will be on to more spiritual and intellectual endeavors. Your comment assumes I want to settle down with someone which is why it is hard for you to understand why I want to have sex with women who behave badly and never offer them anything but sex until I am bored with them. My question isn’t “what will I do, settle down with someone who doesn’t sexually excite me” it is “what will I do when I am done with this phase of finding pleasure in simple sexual gratification.

        26. I see. Thank you for the clarification. As long as you are up front about the fact that you are only using the lady for sex, and she is OK with that, then I guess that’s fine.

        1. You remind of those fat bastards with your sports-T on on your ikea couch who call dudes like Justin Bieber a faggot, despite him fucking way more women than any of you dweebs ever will before he turned 18.
          Good luck try-hard, you’re all here to learn to fake what i have.

        2. No. So just because I think you’re seduction tactics are fucking lame that makes me a noob? I believe that’s call a straw man.

        3. You clearly didn’t understand, … i’m not gonna argue any further with someone for the MGTOW side who thinks everything is pussy worship.

        4. I’m gonna take the high road here since you seem incapable of doing so. We aren’t really in much of a disagreement, you just took offense at my light hearted retort to your seduction techniques. Sounds like you’re more of a MGTOW based on that level of offense taking. Perhaps something lost in translation?
          I bid you good day sir.

        1. Exactly, they seem to misunderstand that what i mean here is that a man is ought to take possession over a woman’s body, to dominate here physique, and do with her body whatever your impulses compel you to do, they seem to interpret that as being “slavish” to the woman, even though the opposite is the case, also, the seem to misunderstand that making a woman fall for you head-over-heels translates into you receiving the best blowjobs, them being super eager to let you fuck them up her ass, and them being totally willing and happy to fulfill any and all of your sexual fantasies.
          They seem to think i’m talking about eating her pussy for hours and getting nothing in return, i’m just advocating what things a man i ought to do to make a woman want to be your sex doll.

    2. agreed, if a woman just wants to get her rocks off and wants to be slayed in bed she’ll bypass that romance mumbo jumbo for some brazzers action. I’ve been with quite a few women that want instant gratification and without doing the bullshit passion steps. I think if a guy is too focused on ‘first kiss’ and ‘being romantic’ a woman won’t take him seriously and see him as a beta male simp.

      1. It’s not about ‘being romantic’, it’s about building physical compliance.
        That said, I do agree that my fuck buddies are less interested in make-outs than more long-term girlfriends.

        1. Hatsune’s isn’t bad, just turned on the side a little for a bit of butt-buggery. Maybe you’re right and I should get that Moka one I’ve been eyeing. Make the others jelly.

        2. Started a masters in design and i’m building a sensor-input behaviour-output robot with some friends as I write this message 😉
          Just building a super simple robot (go from point A to point B without user control) but ya gotta start somewhere.

        3. Then why bother with us? There already are sex toys, so you don’t actually have to dirty yourself up interacting with real women.

        4. That’s their primary unique value as a woman in a relationship with a heterosexual man. For pretty much anything else they might as well be men.

        5. When they get really good, and feel indistinguishable sensory-wise, I think a lot of women will have big problems in our culture.

        6. Granted, a woman’s only value is her pussy but it is extremely valuable to me. No plastic doll could ever replace it.

        7. We are evolutionary wired to crave it. A doll is just plastic. This is where we differ from women who’d rather use a dildo than a real man.

    3. yeah, but it’s fairly rare. Even in anonymous one-night stands a bit of kissing usually precedes the sex. That said, as I mention below, in general fuck buddies or casual partners require a lot less of it. But most guys reading this will experience quasi-dates where some form of warm-up will be required.
      TF,

      1. The two exceptions where I don’t find it to be that rare is with internet dating where you exchange more than a few casual remarks and then decide to “meet for coffee”. If you have discussed something of reasonable substance (and it doesn’t have to be explicitly sexual) there is a good chance that you first actual meeting will land you at your place or theirs and your first kiss is simply the opening for what is already a done deal.
        .
        The second exception is if you, but more importantly she, is into BDSM or such. After the decision is made to get down to business and you have gone through all the motions and done deliciously horrible things to her, and then are in the cleanup or post-coital cuddling stage it may dawn on your lips and cheeks (the ones on your face that it) never met during the entire process. It was weird the first time I realized that happened but a few times later I didn’t pay it much attention.

        1. Hmmm, I’ve been in both scenarios and this doesn’t tally with my experience.
          Re: the first. I use Tinder a bit. Met a girl a couple of weeks ago on it. We’d been pretty flirty on messages and it was kind of obvious where it was going, but we still made out on the ‘date’ (and she gave me the cheek hahaha) before having sex.
          BDSM: I regularly go to a big BDSM / fetish / sex party event here in London (It’s the most famous one in the city, you’ll easily find it through Google). I’m not into BDSM myself, but there are a lot of hot ‘vanilla’ chicks wandering around in underwear, latex etc. Anyway, a while back I met a girl there and minutes later we were having sex – but we STILL made out first. I also met a girl on this weird BDSM boat party on the Thames who wanted to be spanked hard, and even she made out with me first.
          Perhaps it’s just me – I enjoy making out with girls after all – but I think my experience is fairly normal. In general, the makeout simply means “I like you — it’s on”, even in the case of fast sex. It’s really just a form of foreplay, and has nothing to do with romance etc as some guys here have suggested. Actually my makeouts usually involve some light dominance i.e. hair pulling, thumb in her mouth, ear and neck biting, whispering dirty things, etc.

        2. Tinder and similar swipe apps have a whole different dynamic from what preceded them. All you have is a picture, you might swap a few texts before meeting, and then there you are the same as if you just hit on them in a bar or day gamed them.
          .
          With OKCupid, Match.com, Lavalife or even *cough* Plenty of Fish, you probably have a picture, a “profile” of whatever length, and have exchanged emails back and forth before meeting. Sometimes, not always by any means, there may be no make out session as such: by the time you get around to kissing it is already a foregone conclusion that sex will follow and kissing at that point is part of the foreplay.
          .
          The bigger fetish parties seem to have a more carnival atmosphere, sort of like a Halloween party or something. People dress up and show off and pretend. I went to a few, didn’t really like them, and didn’t hook up with anyone.
          .
          If you meet a girl and there is already this understanding that she is into BDSM – generally through some prior online interaction – it’s different. (Personally, I have not been into that for several years.)
          .
          I suppose what is common is that if you can get inside their head, you can get inside their pants and bypass a lot of other things.

    4. I am so with you here. kissing is fucking disgusting. The last thing I want in my mouth is a tongue which has licked countless balls. Kissing, like having children and voting are some seriously overrated things.

      1. this is one reason i always specialized in shy bookworms and religious girls with low notch counts. many were virgins. i’ve been with total sluts too but yeah, you do start thinking about where that tongue has been.

        1. totally understandable, but kissing also involves breath. I am not saying that in the heat of passion it might not be entertaining but thought of objectively it is just a really filthy thing.

        2. That and catching a glimpse of a nearly free booger in one of her nostrils while she’s straddled on top of you. Something about high comedy booger jokes and sex don’t seem to mix well.

        3. haha! that’s pretty terrible. I’ve tried helping them mask the bad breath with some more alcohol. bad breath was one of the few reasons I broke up with one of my exes.

        4. all breath is a serious turn off. If it wasn’t necessary to keep the vagina support system warm i would suggest breathing itself is bad.

        5. Awful. But worse than that (and that is bad) and worse than the bad breath a posteriori….is the ontologically bad breath. Most girls now a days have sucked so much cock and ass hole that their very souls have bad breath. Can’t scrub it clean. It’s like Lady McBeth standing in the mirror looking at her mouth and seeing all the cock that has violated her throat and yelling “out! out! damn spot!”

        6. kissing is objectively filthy. i’ve thought about that. but yeah, at the moment it feels pretty good.
          speaking of that, i guess objectively filthy but feels good at the moment applies about 100x more to doing a chick in the ass.

        7. correct. Believe it or not, I used to teach this stuff. Why things that are objectively filthy feel so good.
          There is a reason human beings seek out taboo sexuality. When we sit down and think it through, pretty much all body to body contact is fucking disgusting. Watching some woman suck my dick would be thoroughly vomit inducing, like seeing a bum eat shit, but something clicks in the mind and all of a sudden its like the best thing ever.

        8. Thinking about where that tongue has been is irrational unless you think she is fresh from licking the dog’s balls.
          By the time she gets to you, its likely any foreign matter has been destroyed by her immune system.
          Kiss away young man.

        9. slightly. Also, I am having a little fun with it. Can’t begrudge me a little entertainment value.

        10. yeah, you can’t stress about that stuff too much, otherwise you end up like michael jackson, sleeping in a sterile plastic bubble.

      2. Pretty much. Knowing what women do with their mouths these days, might as well be sucking on used rubbers.
        We are going to have the same issues with sex bots. I’d say that a good sexbot design will be that the “orifices” would be easy to swap out. This will make them re-sellable. Just take them into the shop, trade out the used holes, overhaul it, then onto the used sexbot showroom. Easy.

        1. The used sexbot market is screaming to be a ricky gervais skit on Life’s Too Short.
          Actually, a short sci fi story about the used sexbot market would make a great analogy to the current dating scene. Get on that DJ!.

        2. Dude they do worse with their hands. They wipe their butt with their hands. Ewwwww you gonna let her touch your junk with those?

      3. No disrespect here, but I have never met a women that wanted to bypass kissing, unless they were a total slut.
        I would be waaaaay more wary or any chick that wanted to go straight to fucking.

        1. No disagreement here…larger picture, I think, is to always remember what you are getting in to (literally and figuratively)

      4. Women love kissing man… I would say fucking disgusting is perhaps over egging it. You sure you’re OK with putting your dick in her? All that unidentifiable goop all over your precious little soldier? You can catch nasty shit that will kill you but the worst you’ll get from a kiss is a cold sore.

        1. I will admit to some hyperbole. The larger point is that if you stop, sit quietly and think about the whole thing it is foul and disgusting. This doesn’t mean that those thoughts disappear when the evil is upon us. I think it explains why I wish, every time I came, that the goop that comes out of me had the magical property of making the woman disappear…so I can be alone in my own shame. I am not saying I won’t kiss or enjoy sex in every way possible, only that when the heat of the moment is over and I think back on it, I hate myself a little and want to shower forever. No difference from when I pull a huge deadlift and, before I know it, I realize I am stomping and grunting and growling. IN the heat of the moment it makes perfect sense, but the next day when i am sitting at home all calm it would be unseemly and odd.

      1. Maybe not without a single kiss but with her giving you the cheek all the time.
        I think it has a lot to do with shyness. They want you to bang them and kiss them and all that other horny shit but don’t know how to act on it.
        I had one girl who just opened her lips for kissing but refused to open her teeth. That was a weird moment.

        1. weird hangups like that exist. i had a friend who was dating a girl who would only have sex in that one position where she lays on her front and arches up her hips for him to penetrate her from behind. great position, love it myself, but ONLY that position, every single time? he was pretty thirsty though, so he stayed with her a long time.

      1. When you’re horny, your mind tunes that gross factor out so you dive in without question. After the deed is done, you think that was a bit nasty.

    5. “I penetrated a few women who didn’t kiss me before intercourse or even during intercourse”
      prostitutes don’t count, sir. (just kidding)

      1. I’m laughing to myself as I read these comments. I could make these boys weep with the stories of things I’ve done to prostitutes, in third world countries to boot. I’ve never even caught a dose of the clap either. Sometimes I think it must build immunity to fuck around with dirty pussy.

    6. Yep, this is wrong in some cases, but it’s rare.
      Reminds me of one encounter I had here in my homeland, which is in Scandinavia, with an american skank.
      Bitch dropped me a line “You wanna fuck me?” very early in a conversation in a club and when I said “Alright, let’s do it” and proceeded to kiss her, she turned the cheek.
      I wondered what the fuck’s up and she said that she doesn’t kiss in front of alien people (while rubbing her enormous jugs on my face).
      I kinda lost the feeling and walked, shaking my head in awe.

  2. If she won’t kiss you, that means she thinks you’re ugly as shit, and no “game” advice can ever change that.

    1. There is the key word: “thinks”. All men are fucking hideous aesthetically compared to a woman. I’ve seen some nasty cavemen with some hot arm candy. Despite looking like a Yeti, he gave her pussy tingles with his attitude.

      1. All men are fucking hideous aesthetically compared to a woman.
        It is only the man whose intellect is clouded by his sexual instinct that could give that stunted, narrow-shouldered, broad-hipped, and short-legged race the name of the fair sex; for the entire beauty of the sex is based on this instinct. One would be more justified in calling them the unaesthetic sex than the beautiful.

        1. For me, it’s attraction is violating, demeaning, and corrupting an angelic-look thing with my small ding-dong.

        2. Black bikini is ten pounds of hubba in a five pound bag. I added red bikini because a lot of guys here are city folk and that type seems to prefer the more “sophisticated” types.

        3. Oh, without question. I wasn’t implying Red had pointy elbows by any measure. Just gave two examples that cover all the bases – pretty “country girl next door” type for us rural and suburban types, and sophisticated “rich” pretty girl for the city folk.

        4. Those are the exceptions, majority of women don’t look like that (even if they try) unless they are blessed with right genetics. Whereas a man can transform himself completely solely based on his power of will, even if his genetics are not so favorable.
          But what you are doing here is exactly what the quote above hints at. You mix up erotics and aesthetics. The sexual impulse makes it impossible for you to look at a living woman in a nude condition with the purely critical, unemotional eye, which is an essential feature in judging any object of beauty.
          Your judgement is further clouded with fake boobs, make up, high heels shoes, photo manipulation etc.
          Ask yourself, if women are more beautiful than men, why do they have to use so much trickery in disguising their real appearance and men don’t need to?

        5. They’re not nude. Aesthetically they have pleasing lines, symmetry, proper proportions and their clothing and surrounding accent and enhance their natural qualities.
          I’m just not on board with thinking women are somehow the ugly brutish things you’ve proclaimed them to be.

        6. Between him and the guy who thinks kissing girls is gross, I’m starting to wonder about the readership around here.

        7. They are semi-nude, ok. A nude woman may be beautiful in details, but the general effect is not beautiful; she inevitably creates the feeling that she is looking for something and the sense of her purpose in life being derived from something outside herself.

        8. Her purpose in life is to reproduce and care for the offspring while they are too young to move about effectively. Of course her purpose is outside herself. The purpose of a beautiful piece of architecture is also “outside itself” as far as art goes, insofar as it has a highly utilitarian purpose. It is still beautiful nevertheless.
          I worry about that some may take “don’t pedestalize” a bit too far, to the point of “de-humanize”. Women please our aesthetics, and not just sexually but by simply being, by sashaying around a garden or sitting under a tree reading , they’re still be beautiful (the attractive ones of course).

        9. While I’m certainly not one to judge others preferences, I think some people dissect things way too far. A kiss from a pretty girl is a kiss, enjoy it. I get some folks may be germophobes, but that shouldn’t mean that somehow kissing is wrong in general, rather it is just wrong to them in particular.

        10. The whole argument arose form this guy’s rather bold statement – All men are fucking hideous aesthetically compared to a woman. – which is false.
          The argument I put forward here is that woman’s beauty is the love of man; they are not two things, but one and the same thing. It is not exactly driven by the sexual conflict as the otherwise the female genitalia would not be perceived as rather hideous. No classical art depicts the beauty of it, does it?
          In fact, the sexual impulse which seeks for sexual union with woman is a denial of such beauty; the woman who has been possessed and enjoyed, will never again be worshiped for her beauty.

        11. I think “don’t pedastalize” will go far, but your concern is valid on the one hand, but on the other hand, when women eschew their femininity and become tatted rude hambeasts, they pretty much dehumanize themselves.
          I would imagine it would be very difficult if say we were dealing with women of the likes seen 100 years ago – but we would KNOW that their nature is the same as now, so not to pedastalize them. But the women now are empowwwerrrred (NPR voice to program people…) you see.

        12. I have long theorized that alphas like Ginger and betas like Maryanne. The ratios of alpha to beta is almost the same as the ratio of preference of Ginger to Maryanne.

        13. How so? Ginger was a slut (according to the standards of her day), had no actual life skills and was nearly useless on the island. Mary Ann was just as appealing in regards to physical attraction, her character was the ultimate in farm girl homemaker, and she was the antithesis of “liberated feminist”.
          Are you positing that “betas” want hot women who make good wives, and alphas want useless cum buckets with no actual survival or domestic skills? If so, are you speaking of PUA “alpha” (lol) or real alpha like a captain of industry who has women throwing themselves at him?

        14. Men see beauty due to sex and his paternal nature, neoteny and sexual maturity in females. Men is projecting himself.
          Genetically women are ugly, and I see that modern man has no idea how women would look without so much artificiality, including fat distribution. Men have no idea what they are really looking at when they see women through their own masculinity.
          If you see through history, women’s body are amorphous, they adapt to the sexuality of men. The only thing they need is to be stimulus, and then it is the man who sees in them eroticism.
          A ridiculous illusion that makes men blind, even ROK readers.

    2. not necessarily true. Pulling away is just as often a shit test as it is a rejection. Women want you to ignore their weak no and show them you can be aggressive. It lets them know that they are in for a good night and a deep ache in their womb right where those tingles were the next morning.

  3. Another technique that has never failed me after the cheek is simply grabbing her face before the third attempt. They love being manhandled.

  4. how to go in for a kiss:
    watch the scene in blade runner where deckard kisses rachael for the first time. once you’ve built enough attraction, start on the cheek but linger and then move to the mouth, while drawing her body closer to yours. this has served me well many, many times. i actually can’t remember it ever not working.*
    *may not work in nightclubs. i have no idea. i don’t drink and hate night clubs and night game.

    1. For your concept to be fully effective, it requires that Vangelis is playing a smoky, sultry tune as you attempt the kiss.

  5. “unless of course she is very angrily telling you to back off, in which case things have gone irrevocably wrong and you should apologize and leave immediately.”
    I wouldn’t apologize at all for being a guy. Just bid her farewell. Next.

    1. i wouldn’t apologize either. I’d just give her a million dollar smile, thank her for her time and walk away. Done. Next.

      1. Guys here have noted that if you really mess up with a girl in certain US colleges she can complain and you can get thrown out, or worse.
        I mention apologising really only for those guys who may have misread a situation due to poor calibration — better to apologise than risk more serious trouble.
        In most normal scenarios I wouldn’t apologise either, though.

        1. Best not to do anything on your own college campus. Go to a different one or off campus. Your campus in today’s time is a mine field.

        2. Good point. If you’re over the 18-25 range any campus is open. I don’t know if they go after students with seniority like masters or phd or alumni.

        3. I think if you’re enrolled in the school, then you are subject to Title IX and risk expulsion because of the funding the school receives. If you’re an alumni, they can’t really threaten you with expulsion. If you make monetary donations to your alma matter, then they might turn the other cheek on the incident like the girls mentioned in this article.

        4. Gaming in US colleges is in fact risky. I can see how apologizing can diffuse an unwanted situation. Troy, keep up the great work. I enjoy reading your articles.

    2. apologizing for being a man and responding to nature’s call is just a beta move. Don’t apologize. never. Or propose her to give head instead of the cheek.

        1. Yeah, but even natural male instinct, to hold her face so she CAN’T turn her cheek, is ‘creepy’… Civilization sometimes sucks when you’re a guy.

    3. Yeah, this. I might acknowledge the situation with “I seem to have really upset you. I’ll be going now, goodnight.” Then again, depending on my mood, I might not.

  6. Kissing a woman to me is as telling as a handshake is to a
    man. When I shake a man’s hand for the
    first time, I know exactly who he is. If it’s limp and weak no matter what his status is, I regard him as a bitch. If I kiss a girl and it’s poor I know automatically she is rather inexperienced. On the
    other hand, if she knows how to be kissed and in turn kiss back a man properly she’s practiced it often.
    Kissing is something I’ve done since I was in nursery school and I regard it as an important part in the art of seduction. After one kiss, 9 times out of 10 you can drag them out of whatever venue you’re at, and at the very least snag digits to continue the dance at a later time (sometimes months later if they have a boyfriend at home). I don’t waste time with women – there’s just too many out there. Kissing is like a sample of what’s to come; an appetizer if you will. Some of what I’ve read here today is that kissing a girl is akin to getting cooties. Come on boys it’s a proper introduction to the first act and we all here have the exact same ending in mind.

    1. Yeah, because someone who might not feel like squeezing their hand at a certain moment just to impress you must be a bitch, even if they could beat the living shit out of you.

        1. Hand shakes don’t determine dominance. My brother says the same shit but I throw him in a choke hold easily.

  7. Good post.
    If handled correctly, being rejected for a kiss is almost never a bad thing. It’s usually very obvious whether she rejected you because she’s not interested sexually (in which case you can lose the time-wasting attention whore) or because she’s not ready yet (in which case you keep going but tone it back a notch).
    Very much agree with the 15 minute timeline. That’s more than enough time to waste on one girl.
    These days I usually throw in a slightly sexual “what are you up to later?” about 30-45 minutes in as well. I love this because again there is no downside:
    If she responds very negatively (1/10 times) (“There’s no way I’m having sex with you!”) then you have deniability that you were asking her to come back with you and that you were just wondering. Then you can ditch the time-waster.
    If she responds averagely (7/10 times) (“I have to work tomorrow” or “I’m going back to my friend’s place”) then you know that a ONS is usually, but not always, off the table. If it is a big club or you can move on to other clubs, think about getting her number and moving on. You have wasted less time than you would have.
    If she responds well (2/10 times) (“Nothing…” with physical contact and eye contact) then you know it could very well be on. I usually follow up with a “do you wanna come and have a drink at mine later?” You can often get out of there pretty quickly then.

  8. Pro tip:
    You can tell if a woman is into you by doing her from behind.
    You see when a woman wants the Peg D, she’ll stick her ass out, without even thinking about it. That’s why models, or just about anything involving any advertisement with women and/or when women advertise themselves on social media, she sticks her ass out.
    That’s even what high heels are for now (originally they were invented by men in royalty who wanted to be taller, but those were more like elevation shoes than “fuck me heels”). Go ahead and try to stick your ass out and see where the weight shifts on your feet: to the front. So high heels are for making it a little easy to stick that ass out. We are wired to respond to that. And for good reason (she wants the D).
    Now, if you do a woman from behind, regardless of bent over or standing, if you have an easy time getting in and STAYING in, that means she really likes the D, or possibly is even really turned on by you too (don’t mistake it for love, you oneitis-having simp). If you keep slipping out, then that means she’s not really into you (or more like, not really letting you get into her, if you know what I mean).
    Trust me, I’ve seen the differences. I have been in LTRs where she swears love up and down but staying in from behind is like trying to put photon torpedos down the exhaust port of the Death Star. And I have been with other women where doing her from behind standing up in the shower all covered with soap but even a crowbar would not have made me slip out.

    1. “trying to put photon torpedoes down the exhaust port of the Death Star”…holy shit I’m stealing that….^^^^^

  9. So true. The first cheek rejection used to make me flustered and give up immediately, oblivious to the fact that it was me, not her, who was disqualifying my own self. When I was younger, my self-esteem was dependent on whether I was accepted or dismissed by girls. How sad!
    Now if I get cheek, I just say “I was aiming for your cheek anyway” and the following attempt on the lips usually succeeds. As long as she’s still there with you, don’t give up!

    1. I always use the “I was aiming for your cheek” line! It happened to me last night. First couple of times the girl I was out with turned the cheek. I was’t phased and carried on trying. Third time she was all over me getting really carried away in the bar in front of everyone.
      The key takeout here is that you shouldn’t be phased if she initially turns the cheek. A lot of new guys (understandably) are though.

  10. As the guy it’s your job to do so, so you must man up and get to work.
    make sure you do it right or you can get in so much shit like sexual harassment,kicked out o the venue,cops perhaps.
    no pressure right my fellow noobs

    1. You’re bold enough to take that risk is what turns them on. I’d say lead her out of the venue to a secluded place and then kiss her. If she goes along, chances are she digs you and won’t turn the cheek.

  11. As of late, if a girl gives me the cheek then I bite it gently instead of kissing it. It’s completely unexpected and helps you stand out.
    On that note, slight boundary-crossing like nibbling on a girl, pulling on her ponytail, or picking her up and carrying her are all big pluses (Especially picking them up, it shows dominance and strength).

  12. I think its better to linger in that inbetween zone for a while. If she keeps thinking and wondering if you might kiss her soon, pretty soon she actually starts wanting it.

  13. Lol and I’m just here waiting to make out with a chick for the very first time at the age of 22. Sad I know.

  14. If your in a private setting, this is a sure gauge. If you can learn to read body language, get a feel for how your attitude and conversation are being received, or even scent, the number of brush backs should be minimal.
    If your tuned in and all signs are positive, getting a cheek is an indication of going in a bit to early more than anything. If a woman does not have any interest, it’s usually obvious after the initial approach.

  15. YOu know that what you described-trying to kiss a girl without asking permission-could get you thrown of of college now at freedom loving Berkley.
    And I do not think any girl will actually say that you can kiss her if you ask verbally. I am so glad I am 51 and not 18. It was hard enough just having to deal with rejection as a young man. Now you have to deal with fear of getting kicked out of college and a kangaroo court rape tribunal.
    I feel for the generation of my son.

    1. Yup, but the article assumes a reasonable degree of social calibration. I’m talking about girls who are into you but aren’t going to make the first move. Of course, if someone tries this on a girl who isn’t attracted she could take offence and complain etc. But men shouldn’t blame the system for that — rather, they should look at why they aren’t sufficiently attractive to the women they’re dating and what they can do to improve themselves.

      1. I beg to differ. She’s not attracted you, but gives false signals to tease or stroke her own ego or make another woman jealous. You not knowing make your move and you’re kicked out of college. How can you not blame the system?

        1. That happens less than you’re suggesting. While girls might throw out false IOIs, 99.9% of them won’t get into a date situation with a guy they’re not attracted to at least a bit. Why would they bother? It’s not like they don’t have plenty of other options.

    2. That’s right, this is no-means-no thinking, but we’re now living in a yes-means-yes world. Meaning you have to ask permission for anything up front. Modern making out:
      “May I kiss you on the side of the neck?
      May I squeeze your right tit?
      May I stick my hand down the back of your pants?”

  16. Frankly, I’d prefer to fuck an American woman with ever kissing. There is no telling what type of shit she has had in her mouth. Same goes for her vagina, but I wear a condom. Probably the cleanest part of am American woman’s body is her asshole. So no kissing and going straight for an ass fuck is ideal.

    1. Aaaoow, so that’s what black underwear signifies. I get it now, all those chicks that wear all black. Hmm. Swat teams, zoro, pirates . cops . . eek
      (seriously tittie fucking is cleanest)

    2. I genuinely can’t tell if you people making this type of comment are joking? Don’t you realise what a weird thing to say this is? For so many reasons. Not least that you must be equally as dirty as her (probably more since you devote your life to having sex with as many people as you possibly can). So… am I just taking you too literally or is this legit?

    3. A lot of American girls have bad hygiene; Latinas — especially from the better families — have great hygiene from my experience.

  17. 3-4 attempts/fails to get her kiss ? No way. It’s a take it or gtfo situation.
    Girls, if really interested in the guy in front of them, should understand this : When we make such a decisive move (which separates real men from boys) giving a cheek in return is just plain stupid and childish. Real women appreciate bold moves and give a kiss in return. Only disney princesses wannabees dreaming of mr perfect (while they, in return are far from being perfect women) give their stupid cheeks.
    Edit : and by the way, if a girl makes a face like the stupid one wearing big glasses (last image, last chapter), she should get a slap instead.

    1. Yes, they should. But you can’t legislate against nature. Girls are programmed to put up some resistance to weed out betas. You can’t blame them for that. You either learn how to work the system or buy a PornHub subscription and some hand cream.

      1. Well, this behaviour is understandable when women are young. I was given the cheek when i was 14-15 something. Never since that (fortunatly). That’s why I’m surprised when you say that nowadays girls can still act like this despite they dress like bitches and let the guy (who is trying to kiss) touch/caress them (legs, body etc.). But you’re right, that’s the system to weed out betas. outdated, but still effective one.

        1. I got it from a 27 year old, a 21 year old last night, a 22 year old last week. Also from a 35 year old the other month. Of course, I ended up kissing all of them (and sleeping with them). I think they do it when you come on strong quickly and they don’t want to look easy.

        2. seriously ! perhaps it depends on the culture. Are you from the united states or something?
          From France (overrated country of the overrated “french kiss”), girls, i mean women, are not (yet) like this. I should take advantage before it’s too late haha. By the way, you ended kissing all of them, nice work !!!

  18. And what about girls who stare at you, eyes wide open (while yours were closed), during the kiss ? fucking creepy, believe me.

  19. ‘Steal a kiss’
    When the music is loud and deafening, you’re up close and talking into each other’s ears simultaneously. If she’s right for it, during the convo while you have your head turned for her to speak into your ear, quickly turn to her face and give her a surprise peck, no tongue at first but just a peck. She may get wide eyed slightly and be without words, but when you’re close tell her ”I stole a kiss, I stole that. You like??” ”you gonna steal my honor now?” ”I STOLE my first kiss from you don’t you know”. . tweak small talk as necessary. Don’t over analyze anything. Things could accelarate quick from there. Before she backs off she’ll make micros. Hold her hands with your fingers & sway as if to dance. Keep it back and forth like a ‘paddle ball’ (small ball connected to rubber band)

  20. If the number of girls I’ve slept with is in the hundreds, then the
    number of makeouts I’ve had sits comfortably in the thousands.

    I just had to let that marinate for a little bit.

  21. My game is usually to get them to kiss me first. And many times they forget that they initiated and think you did.

  22. Over the years, Ive had many women literally jump me and start making out.
    Charm, confidence, amused mastery and good looks help to pave the way

  23. A big indicator for me that a girl wanted the kiss was if she glanced for a split second at my lips.
    I’d be talking to her and her eyes would shift very quickly down and back up at my eyes. If that happens, do it.
    And like Troy says, if she’s still sticking around, you’re still in the game.

    1. You said “honest question”, that’s the only reason I’m answering.
      Women are not to be hated. They are a fundamental part of a man’s life, and not all women are a disgrace.
      Now, it’s important to say, you have “women” (a group of different women, the women you might know) and “Women, in general”. “Women in general”, in the West of our days, deserve perhaps some contempt from healthy men. In my case, I’d (even) say pitty. Why? The worst thing they can do to us, men, is probably lighter than the harm they are already doing to themselves, being used as they are as puppets by SJWism ->they deny you a job? They emprison themselves (thinking they are “empowered”) in loneliness and self-destruction -> they deny you a family? They’re doing the same to themselves, and it’s harder for them, for biological and cultural reasons. etc etc etc.
      Now, the women of our life… Romantic love is for kids and for Hollywood, sorry. When you grow up, you have desires, which can grow into a full passion (a highly destructive thing, by the way), and companionship, which might allow you a happy marriage and life. Any other than this, you are either not an adult man or someone who truly knows women. Hatred for women is in this category. If you hate women, there’s something wrong with you. You gave them a power over your life they shouldn’t have ever had.
      http://www.hippoquotes.com/img/al-pacino-quotes/7801c8e64373405af51bd591b7a20d18.jpg
      Sex is better than porno, people! Having a girl around, in your house, even when she says dumb things and “invades” your space with her things… beats the hard, metallic reality of loneliness. And more important than that, distance from women makes a man vulnerable. He will become a hateful loner or an insecure lover, in his (likely) “moments of weakness”.

  24. I like the musical reference to the Smiths. Songs like ‘Unlovable’, (“I know i am unlovable, you don’t have to tell me”) and ‘There is a light that never goes out’ (” and in the darkened underpass, I thought ‘ oh God’ my chance has come at last”) spring to mind as I remember my awkward teenager time, especially in relation to the girls that I had a crush on.

    1. “I could have been wild, and I could have been free
      But Nature played this trick on me
      Nature played this trick on me.”

  25. Nah to get girls these days you just have to act like a dumbass aka “be cocky”. “alpha, beta” it doesn’t fucking matter we’re not wolves, human’s are different it’s not so black and white you could be quiet as SHIT and be able to beat the shit out of that dude with the attitude who is just being loud to attract woman and you’d still be called a “beta” just for not talking how people want you to. But that’s just how millennials think. I could be a skinny jean wearing faggot and if I pretend like I have an attitude I have a better chance of getting girls it’s disgusting. Girls don’t want a human they want an act, they want what they saw on the Disney channel when growing up. Then they cry about “deserving better” when things don’t go their way. What makes you deserve better by default? Just because you have a vagina? Let me know when you want to be a decent human being.

  26. “Fear”
    Let’s see…. hmmm maybe fear that the bitch will give you oral herpes or hpv; or maybe tasting some other guy’s cum as you get your tongue in her mouth.

  27. You have to admit this article hilarious given the recent article about avoiding immoral women.
    🙂
    Well that, and it’s just hilarious period. 😀

      1. Now don’t be silly, that’s for the SJWs. 🙂
        You know very well the point was about getting laid. 😛

  28. i just cant get this seriously through my head. Everytime you talk about repeatedly going in for a kiss it conjures up images of 3rd world brown people throwing themselves at tourists for pennies. no thanks lol

  29. Give her the “shocker” that’ll let her know your intentions early on so you can avoid getting the “cheek..”

  30. All “game” is, according to MRAs, is spending time in clubs. Nothing new, just a new slogan. Club hopping is beneath me. I’d just go to the underworld before I’d do that.

  31. PUA garbage…screwing around with all the whores you can get your hands on will never get you anywhere in life.

  32. By not giving off a vibe of not being a creep, lame, or inexperienced.
    Its really not the hard its all about setting the tone from the beginning. Its just like with any TV show or the first time you had a strict teacher in school
    ———————————————————————————–
    They and the TV show set the tone early of what you were getting into. Its why you can’t be a Beta first in the relationship then switch it up out of nowhere and think its going to be easy
    Cut your loses short and set the tone from the beginning. Do that and you won’t have to “Worry” or “Think” about game every second you are with it. It will just flow natural.
    ———————————————————————————–
    Then you will get more than just “The cheek” when you go for a kiss
    https://fakephilosophy.com/

  33. Pro tip: You guys ready? Listen up.


    Put yourself in a position to get laid before the kiss.
    The kissing is just a formality; done out of respect before the big game…like the national anthem.
    I don’t go for the kill when they can say no. They need to be taken somewhere.
    “Hey lets go for a drive”
    “Hey, I’m gonna park here, looks quiet enough”.
    I’ve done this and gone in for the kiss, gotten rejected, and said “what the fuck do you think this is, look where we are..” and just doing that was enough to get laid.
    I would never try to kiss a girl at a bar or a club or a party or anything. You shouldn’t be interested in kissing them. If you’re doing that before you’ve taken her anywhere, she’s probably thinking that’s what you want. Obviously its not…so don’t act like it.
    In fact, I’ve approached girls that were kissing on a guy just a few minutes ago. I come up, laugh and say “I’ll do a whole lot more than just kiss you, my car?”
    Kinda ballsy but it works…sometimes. lol

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