How To Avoid Being Labeled “Creepy” By Beautiful Girls

One of the main things that holds guys back in their pursuit of women—whether for a relationship or a short-term fling—is the fear of awkwardness. Indeed, the prospect of being called “creepy”, a word bandied about far too readily these days by women looking to shame and silence guys that they are not attracted to, is terrifying for many men.

In order to get over this fear, it is important to understand that “awkwardness” is simply a social frame and not to buy into it when you are dealing with girls.

What Is Awkwardness?

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A friend of mine who is getting into back game again after a period out of the market recently expressed his fear of “going in for the kill” on a date. Basically, he is nervous about trying to kiss girls. I told him that as the man he needs to lead the interaction towards sex. In almost all circumstances the girl isn’t going to do it, and dominance is the most attractive trait that a guy can demonstrate to a woman.

But what is he really frightened of? After all, the very worst that could happen as a result of going in for an undesired kiss on a date is a slap around the face, but the chances of even that happening are extremely slim. Far more likely is that the girl will simply pull away and make an excuse about not being ready yet.

So, given that physical repercussions are unlikely, what’s the problem? The answer, of course, is awkwardness. What my friend doesn’t want to face is the aftermath of a failed kiss that produces significant embarrassment. He wonders what he will say and how he will regain his composure after such a crushing occurrence.

But it is this very fear of awkwardness that will cause him to be reticent, ironically making him less attractive to the girl. In the world of dating (as well as the worlds of business, sports, and artistic endeavours) boldness will take you much further than holding back.

Of course, I’m not saying that one should blithely disregard all social conventions in the pursuit of one’s personal goals (although actually that wouldn’t be a bad idea). What I am saying, though, is that you should recognize that awkwardness or creepiness are not real or tangible, but are simply the manifestation of a frame that is stronger than your own—the girl’s.

Once you get this concept down then awkwardness is a lot easier to deal with.

How To Not Be “Creepy”

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The way to not be creepy, then, is to understand that awkwardness is a frame set by someone else and to refuse to buy into it. Obviously this is easier said than done, but bear with me while I explain what I mean.

Back in October I wrote an article about how to make out with girls that included the following paragraphs:

What to do if you “get the cheek”? As discussed, in many cases, especially if you’ve gone in early, she will reject your first attempts by turning her head away when you try to kiss her. Many men are so horrified by this eventuality that they are scared even to make an attempt, but you shouldn’t be. Instead, just realise that it happens to everyone and that it’s part of the process.

Smirk, pull back, talk about neutral topics and then try again a little later. Sometimes it takes four or even five attempts before your kiss will be reciprocated – that’s absolutely fine, unless of course she is very angrily telling you to back off, in which case things have gone irrevocably wrong and you should apologize and leave immediately. But if she’s still sitting there then you can be confident that she’s interested and that it’s your job to persist.

Competing Frames

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When I’m on a first date with a girl, I will often try to kiss her within the first fifteen or twenty minutes. Frequently this initial kiss will be rejected. In these cases, the girl’s frame will be something like: “I just came out for a nice drink and to get to know you and you are violating social convention by trying to kiss me before we know each other well.”

And that’s absolutely fine. But my frame is different and goes like this: “I am a man and you are a woman. I am attracted to you and that is entirely normal. We are on a date together, and so what could be more natural than that I kiss you?”

Now, as we all know, in any given social interaction whoever has the strongest frame usually wins. And my frame in this context is now rock solid through practice. So if a girl attempts to shame me or to otherwise imply that my behaviour was in any way over the top or inappropriate, I simply front it out. “You’re cute—of course I’m going to try to kiss you. Who wouldn’t?”

The same goes for when I cold approach. If a girl asks me whether I’m hitting on her when I go up to talk to her, I simply say that I am. Why say anything else?

Own Your Actions

own it

What this all comes down to is owning one’s actions. If secretly you think there’s something wrong with trying to kiss a girl on a date—or more likely, that you feel deep down that you’re not good enough for her—then of course this is going to be telegraphed in your demeanour. Or if, under whatever bravado you’ve mustered up, you think approaching girls cold is weird, inappropriate, or that you are simply not hot enough then this will also be conveyed in even your tiniest actions.

It is far better to walk out into the world entirely confident in the actions that you take. Those with a strong frame are simply less likely to receive negative feedback about their behaviour. Just think of the school jock who goofs around with the girls and gets away with all kinds of things that betas would be shamed for. Without a doubt, he is afforded a license to pull crazy stunts largely because he doesn’t see anything wrong in doing so.

You must be the same. Next time you feel awkward, or a girl accuses you of being creepy, remember that awkwardness and creepiness are not reality, but rather a frame that has been imposed on you by someone else. Refuse to recognize it, and as if by magic it will melt away.

Read more: How To Make Out With a Girl Without Getting The Cheek

179 thoughts on “How To Avoid Being Labeled “Creepy” By Beautiful Girls”

  1. I wear a trench coat and ask for a pair of used panties within the first 15 minutes of a date. Am I doing it wrong?

    1. YES! It is about the prep work. And nothing says great prep work like springing from behind the bushes. I personally go for rose bushes and fire bushes but for you, you strike me as box bush kind of guy. Wait until you graduate to ornamental and fragrant bushes. You’ll be kicking yourself that you didn’t think of them sooner.

    2. Shit, I’ve been wearing used panties and asking for a trench coat. That’s probably why they think I am awkward.

      1. I have always wondered why the DMV didn’t take all the names of people who had vans registered to them, remove the Hispanics and then go to everyone’s house and immediately save whatever children they are molesting

        1. Maybe it works different in England. Here I think van ownership is strictly Mexican contractor or pediphile

        2. not totally owned until you have shag carpet and a fold down bed. At that point you get to let people know that should you vehicle be a-rockin they ought not come a-knockin

        3. Service trucks use to be popular with white contractors but the Mexicans started stealing stuff off them so they had to move to vans so they could lock their stuff up. People who race dirtbikes and streetbikes also use them to keep would be thieves at bay.

    3. haha best opener for tinder:
      “I bet you smell better than my momma”
      I shit you not…I have a 90% response rate.

      1. Calling them names like cunt, bitch, and slut for not responding has 100% response rate. Although it pisses most of them off, I’ve nailed quite a few after doing just that. Only proves that being nice gets you absolutely nowhere.

        1. They definitely do. All of high school, uni and my early 20s my approach was “nice guy, Rom Com persona” as that was society conditions us. Naturally this means friend zone (although being stuck in the friend zone also gave good field research on what buttons to press and how). At 25 I changed everything, threw out every t-shirt and “trendy jean”, and bought some jackets, polos, dress shirts and made sure they are not emblazoned with others brands. Sneakers were gone for appropriate footwear and I also worked on my frame of mind, my approach and also lost 18kgs.
          One particular evening I was out and approached two ladies, introduced myself and was immediately shot down with “look were are lawyers and not interested”, in the very I just joined a law firm from Uni immature mentality. Old me would of put my tail between my legs and gone all shy. This time I challenged with “It is kind of sad you need to make up your job to feel validated to a stranger trying to talk to you”.
          Swiping at that ego struck a chord because the landscape changed from dismissive to a very engaged and defensive “I am not making it up that’s what I do, what would you know about it?” Unashamedly I then told her ” Well I know…(listed some partners of top 4 law firms in the area (i know that through work)), and the fact you watch How I Met Your Mother and would steal a pickup technique by inventing your fake career, it is not as impressive as you think, especially when someone knows about the industry and can call you on it.” At this point her phone comes out opens the company website to prove to me she is a listed associate.
          We started seeing each other for a bit after that. The advice of calling them / stand your ground, challenging them, dominance (as assertion) and being different really does work, but it has to become who you are and not a gimmick. Need to have the right frame and approach. Other approach techniques I would use in a bar would ask what their favorite type of pizza was, I would either get a response and ad lib or if asked why I would just say “if your answer is vegetarian than I don’t need to keep talking to you”.

        2. Female lawyers are kind of bitchy by nature, no? Probably means they are sexually repressed if you can find the right button to push.

        3. No, they just think their job grants them power. Like somehow being a lawyer is akin to being Wonder Woman, but that couldn’t be further from the truth.

  2. “After all, the very worst that could happen as a result of going in for an undesired kiss on a date is a slap around the face,”
    Nah, the worst would be a sexual assault, sexual harassment, or a rape accusation.

    1. That seems to be way over the top. If you’re out with a girl and you try to kiss her, that’s hardly grounds for sexual assault.

      1. See my comment above. You’d think it would be considered part of the normal give-and-take in the dating ritual, but the SJW’s have made it a crime.

  3. No man need apologize or be “embarrassed” for being masculine or engaging in masculine behaviors. Once, when I was younger, and was taking a girl’s shirt of for the first time (the first time with that girl, not overall) she asked what I was doing, so I replied, “Taking your shirt off” in the type of tone that said, “which should be obvious.” She replied, “Oh”, and I got back to unbuttoning.
    If a man wants to maximize his chances, he should learn to use humor appropriately, both to set up his shot, and to recover from an air ball. There are opportunities for this in everyday life, even if you’re not planning on smashing. As an example, I was talking to a shop girl earlier in the week (she was helping the clueless person who started helping me). She was a knockout, but really tiny. I’m not sure she was even 5 feet tall, but really pretty.
    At some point she cursed under her breath [computer problems, I suspect not the first time], and then excused herself to me, and I replied, “Oh, no worries. Usually getting a girl to swear for you is is $3.99 per minute.” I let that sink in and then, as a broad grin spread over her face, I deadpanned, “Or so I’m told. I could be way wrong.” And then the fun began.
    Later, when the topic of her stature came up, as I am sure it typically does, I interjected, “I’d say that you’re ‘fun’ size”….[one, one thousand, two, one thousand…holds up hand with thumb and forefinger and inch apart] “You know…like those little Snickers” She hadn’t heard that one before (mostly because I came up with it on the spot) and it was another hit.
    Anyway, I’d recommend watching good, masculine comedy and going out into the world an honing your chops. And, as has been said before, “Life is like the Tango…if you get tangled up, you Tango on….”

    1. That’s my modus operandi too. Your first interaction with a woman should be improvisational comedy, essentially trying to make yourself laugh, with her as the material. It should be gentle Jerry Seinfeld observational comedy, though — NOT Sam Kinison or Bernie Mac or Robin Williams insane comedy.
      Scent of a Woman was one of my favorite movies in college. Used to quote it all the time. Good writing.

  4. Awkwardness = unexpressed sexual desire. She wants you to *make* the conversation playfully sexual.
    Doing so, however, doesn’t guarantee that things lead to the bedroom. But it’s still the only way that you’ll possibly get there.

  5. “After all, the very worst that could happen as a result of going in for an undesired kiss on a date is a slap around the face,”
    Um, are you kidding? The worst that can happen is you are charged with sexual assault, shamed for life on Facepalm and Twitspace, possibly lose your job, and go broke trying to defend yourself in court.
    But you go, bro!

    1. Realistically, that’s probably not going to happen.
      False rape accusations are starting to become for men what actual rape is for women: a bogeyman that is vastly blown out of proportion.
      Similarly to rape, it’s not as if it doesn’t happen, but it’s not nearly as prevalent as some are led to believe.
      Similarly to rape, if you take certain precautions, you are less likely to be a victim. These include, but are not limited to:
      1. Not dating fatties
      2. Not dating women with shaved head/off-color dyed hair
      3. Not having sex while heavily intoxicated(easier said than done)
      4. Being alpha as FUUUAAAARRRRKKKK (only half kidding)
      Most girls actually aren’t so feminist that they believe all the bullshit they’re told. The average girl is more worried what YOU think about her than trying to accuse you of rape.
      Even at my college(one of the more liberal state universities), I’ve only ever heard of one rape accusation. It was between a frat boy and a sorority slut. Both were black-out drunk. They fucked. She threatened to press charges. She dropped the charges after he TALKED TO HER and APOLOGIZED.
      Granted, I’m not saying you have NOTHING to worry about. Only you can be the final arbiter of your life decisions. But altering your behavior in fear of something that, in all actuality, isn’t really something that you’re likely to have to deal with, isn’t really the wisest thing to do.
      Just my 2 cents.

  6. Honestly, ROK often doesn’t mention the importance of looks. Most “creepy” guys are just ugly, the other half lacks game.
    The only things you can do to not be creepy :
    1) Look good
    2) Escalate shamelessly, don’t be nervous or backpeddal, if she’s not ready yet, try again later
    3) Find another girl, some girl just won’t be into you.
    I think the game aspect is pretty clear, just have frame, escalate, deflect shit tests.
    However, if you look good, you will probably won’t have problems with being called creepy. Just don’t look like a neckbeard and you will be fine.

    1. Agreed. Women use “creepy” on any male they aren’t attracted to. Do your own social experiment with online dating using fake pics with a male model and send inappropriate messages and the females will be flattered. But it takes much more than just not being a neckbeard. Any male who isn’t in the top 25% is a creep until proven otherwise.

      1. “Any male who isn’t in the top 25%”
        Ha that’s a laugh. In California…you gotta be in the top 5%. Women out here think they are good enough to date and marry Tom Hardy.
        Yes…the overweight, yoga pants and uggs wearing chicks who are a 6 at best will not give you any chance unless you are hott, have tats and a 6 pac.

        1. I just pulled the stat 25% out of the air. The number varies depending on all kinds of things. But generally upon first meeting, women assess males on 2 things he has zero control over, his height and facial attractiveness. Statistically speaking, that is halving the male population two times and leaves 25%. I have little respect for natural alpha males who never had to work for female attention just telling other men to have more confidence.

        2. Bahahahaaaahahahaha I’m spitting out my drink here at how delusional those bitches are. Also Uggs have been out for at least 5 years.

        3. First, stop cussing. Be a lady. Second, quit trying to identify with male problems like you are “one of the boys”. You’re not and never will be.
          Now, quit spewing your thoughts and get back in the kitchen where you belong.

        4. During the day in socal, yes you have to have looks and style, and status. At the bar, its 10,000 bc. … If you can afford the $30 cover and $13 beers haha. Im in San Diego if anybody needs a wingman

        5. Agreed. Stuck up, sunburned faces, spoiled and entitled. Worst women on the planet. The latinas on the other hand…

        6. Area 51 is the place to be after the bars close if you are looking to pull drunk hotties. Get there around 1 because the place gets packed due to it staying open till 4.
          Oh…I mean…I am a nice guy and have never ever ever banged a drunk chick without consent. And no I don’t live in the greatest city on the West Coast, San Diego. Stop following me.

    2. I would say the article is more about how one behaves over how one looks.
      But it’s true. If she don’t get the tingles, you’re creepy. I’ve known fellows who in one night would be deemed creepy by some, “hot” by others.
      Same thing has happened to me, though I look more like Mad Max (from the 3rd movie) these days, and only crazy horse chicks don’t find me creepy. All good and well then, I’m too busy to care about getting laid these days.

      1. “I’m too busy to care about getting laid these days.”
        Right!? Much rather sleep since I am always busy until midnight. Had one of my plates hit me up and ask if she could come over for a quicky…told her she couldn’t because I was gonna take a nap. So strange how when you don’t care about them…they want you more.

        1. I’m being bothered by an exGF for some $$ but she’s going to be working for it. She does have other skills.

    3. I think your premise is incorrect. ROK is constantly mentioning the importance of keeping in good physical shape which translates to looks for many women.
      Obviously fitness for its own sake as well as for the positive benefits to your character….but by working out and building muscle you are increasing your ability to look good. THis article may not mention it, but ROK’s insistence on the idea that men keep themselves physically fit is also tacitly expressing a need to men to be physically attractive.

      1. I was motly thinking of the way people dress and groom. Just today I talked to 2 guys and they smelled weird. Meanwhile I never go out of the house without deodorant or cologne.
        I think fitness is overrated. As long as you are not a twig or fatass you will be fine. It’s the way people groom and dress themselves that I was thinking of.
        I look at 2 yeard old photos and cringe at how stupid I looked. This might not sound much but I got a proper haircut and some nice clothes and now i look better than 80 percent of people I meet.
        There is an absolute epidemic of awful looking people. Back in the 50s it was not custom to go out without looking appropriately, even if you were poor. Just look at this photo of people at a social canteen during the great depression
        https://elsalariado.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/parados-usa.jpg?w=1200
        Meanwhile today it’s hard to find people with an appropriate look at college or in the street. Men dress like teenagers in shirts with stupid sings like “beer getting people laid since…” and other stupid ways, they dont even take care of the way they look and smell. Women aren’t any better with short haircuts, piercings and tattoos. Not to mention the epidemic of obesity today.
        Outside of a pocket of attractiveness in US, like LA, NY, Santa Monica, etc. People mostly look like crap. There was even an article about this on ROK.
        I’m not even talking about hotness, just look like a human being. But it’s funny to think of the PUAs who say “looks dont matter” to a guy that has greasy Cheetos fingers and unwashed hair and tell him shit like he does’nt build anough comfort or something, LOL.
        As for ROK. I agree they overall give good fitness advice. It’s just that the articles are very theoretical and I am more of an action man. I think most men will benefit more from getting a good pair of clothes and fixing their teeth or getting a new haircut. This might seem redundant to ROK readers, but I’m just reminded about a guy who told me that game doesn’t work because he tried. Meanwhile he was overweight aand dressed like crap.
        I am just tired of the whole “looks don’t matter” routine of mainstream PUAs. Game matters, but there is an assumption you have a decent level of looks to begin with. But some PUAs go full autist and say no it doesn’t it’s all just confidence and body language, sure tell that that to Greasy “Euphoric” McCheetos, tell him all he needs to do is work on inner game, LOL
        I agree with ROK articles overall, I just thought this one did not mention the elephant in the room so to say.

        1. I have to say that this is a spectacular post. I couldn’t disagree with you more about fitness and not just for rock hard, gina tingle inducing muscles but for confidence, physical strength, well being and mental stability.
          However, every other word here you wrote ought to be emblazed on stone. I am with you.
          A man needs to get his hair cut on a regular schedule, take care of his skin, smell good, take care to dress well. I was discussing this here the other day, even on a sunday if I go to brunch chances are I will put on a tie…a casual knit tie with a button down collar.
          People think style is effeminate and then talk about the masculine nature of people like Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra.
          I have an immediate leg up on most guys I see because I am dressed well. It shows I take care of myself and that means something.
          The PUA’s that say that just going arrogant and you can smell like sweaty balls and dress like shit may be right if there isn’t competition from anyone else, but I would guess that 10 out of 10 times if they are just relying on pure game while neglecting their bodies, their appearance and their hygiene they will wind up looking like a clown the second a man who is dressed like a man and who takes care of himself walks in the room assuming he doesn’t lay a big egg.
          This is why I have so much luck with women between 19-25 despite being 20 years older. When some guy is ready for beer bong and bathroom blow jobs they will be down until they run into me and I shame them into dressing nicer and take them out to places that most of the frat boys they are sucking off couldn’t find with a map, gps and a Sherpa.
          They aren’t keepers, but I do enjoy playing with them from time to time.
          It also allows me access to a high class of cunty, well groomed arrogant woman who is always in heels that I am always very fond of and who the people you describe couldn’t possible game hard enough to get a lay from.

        2. Plus outside of female attention, being well groomed, clean and healthy just demonstrates basic self respect. You’d do it even if it didn’t help you get laid.
          I can’t believe how many YOUNG men I meet with a beer belly and man boobs who are proud of them like they’re a fucking accomplishment.

        3. that is crazy! I’ve noticed that I see guys in college, early 20’s, and they look like they are on a 50+ bowling team. It’s absurd. Another thing is them being lazy. I have a friend who owns a restaurant and I hang out there some time. He has a soux chef (spelling?) who is like 22. I caught him yawning one day and told him my first yawn wasn’t until I was 35

        4. “I caught him yawning one day and told him my first yawn wasn’t until I was 35”
          Hahaha quote of the week. Yeah I work opposite a mobidly obese Prozac taker and he’s always letting out these big loud 10 second yawns. Constantly seems at death’s door. Oh, and he’s 33.
          Eat clean, exercise, dress well and invest a tiny bit of time each day in grooming, and you’ll be doing better than most guys out there.

        5. My roommate in college used to let out those long, lazy, self-satisfied, old-man “aahhhhhhhh” sounds whenever he would sink back into his chair. I started fining him twenty five cents every time he did it. We were nineteen but he had already lost all his hair and I couldn’t stand to hear him sounding like an AARP member as well.

        6. I agree..and this goes for both men and women. Women used to never leave the house unless they looked their best. Today, they see it as “empowering” to leave the house in slippers and pajamas to go to the store.
          I shake my head when I see so many people who do not have a standard when they dress or leave the house. It’s one of the very reasons why you’ll be seen as a cut above the rest…because you do care about your appearance.
          Have a standard (the way you dress) when you leave the house, always.

        7. I don’t agree,
          I’m a very well groomed man by nature, I had a German mother which might have helped in that, and to me grooming is a BARE MINIMUM. I don’t gain weight well, and look about 1000 times better with diet and exercise. Everyone is different.

        1. That is primary for sure, but when a girl touches my arms or shoulders and then looks like she just won the lotto I can’t deny it feels pretty damn awesome.

        2. Yes, but – if you were a weak man with big muscles, no girl would get a thrill from touching you. If you’re mentally strong, the physical strength reinforces the attraction and the gina goes tingle tingle tingle

        3. absolutely. 100% which is why I never list the attraction side as a primary or even secondary benefit…but it still is kinda cool.

        4. I’ve gone from obese to personal trainer looks over the last few years and I’ve noticed the change in female sexual attraction to be absolutely astronomical. I’ve gone from being gross, to being unable to get some women to even leave me alone. 5 or less, they stop and stare, 6 and 7s are really overbearing and persistent, and 8-10 is no longer out of my league. The difference to me is just utterly mind-boggling. So yeah, I don’t agree.

        5. I believe you. And it’s not meant to imply “think different thoughts and you’ll get chicks”. I know that when I lift, I simply feel different in the world. And I’ll bet anything that feeling projects externally, and is responsible for much of your success.
          Congratulations, by the way; always good to hear a brother finding success.

      1. Unless you are in dire need of cosmetic surgery I was mostly refering to the way people groom and smell.
        There are 3 things to take in account. Dont be too skinny or fat, Be Clean and Dress appropriately.
        There are of course guys whose problems are genetic, some guys are short and some have a really ugly face but for most it’s just that they don’t care of themselves.
        Just go to a ComicCon,see gow the average guy looks there.
        It’s ridiculous how little effort people put into taking care of themselves, just look at the obesity rating and just look how the average guy dresses, awful. But some mainstream PUA charlatans won’t mention it to steal your money. Some fat smelly guy comes and they tell him, it’s confidence, you lack inner game, you don’t have proper body language. It enrages me. For fuck’s sake, take a shower an stop wearing My Little Pony Tshirts
        https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.M010464d3df15a5c56c59ab2ae3050650o0%26pid%3D15.1&f=1
        My only advice is wash yourself, get a good haircut, ok clothes and maybe look into elevator shoes if you are short. Outside of that, you should be fine
        https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-4lm1h6kcmGE%2FULOAFRejXeI%2FAAAAAAAAZ70%2Fis5SmCwBNk0%2Fs1600%2FAsos%2BLeather%2BJacket%2527s%2BCollection%2B2012-13%2BFor%2BWomen%2B-%2B003%2B-%2Bwww.Fashionhuntworld.Blogspot.com.JPG&f=1
        This is basically an average look a male should have IMO. Nice Jeans, tShirt and leather jacket for example. Just don’t be fat, get stupid haircuts or disregard hygiene.

        1. I get the point. Work on improving what you can. But your link just used a male model with above average height and facial attractiveness, and called him average. Women aren’t looking at his clothes and don’t care what he wears. If he’s a fucked up loser that would just make him a degenerate alpha male which also works.

    4. bingo – the definition of ‘creepy’ is completely dependent on the woman’s immediate emotions

      1. Pretty much, just like asshole, bigot, missoginist, racist and all other buzzwords. She doesn’t like you for reason x.y.z and that means you’re bad somehow.

    5. I often tell young men it’s like fishing…you need bait. Nothing is more of a turn on (or interest) to a woman is when you’re in the company of another woman. Many women have no idea if the other woman is a sister, a fellow worker, a girlfriend or wife…they only see competition (another woman).
      When you’re in the company of another woman, it’s the challenge of getting you (to the other woman). I tell many younger men to start with that one because it’s pretty easy plus you’ll have a conversation – makes things easier (it flows).

    6. to quote chris from GLL.
      Just need to be above average in 3 or 4 traits [looks, style, social freedom, killers instinct]

    7. looks help, but i’d say game is far more important. i’ve seen fat, ugly guys with the right alpha jerkboy attitude do pretty well with women. on the other hand, i’m tall, conventionally good-looking, and i’ve always been fit and i still managed to creep women out most of the time by projecting beta weakness until discovering game, at least while living in the US. i did much better in europe and latin america, where my tendency to go for bookworms and religious girls worked out a lot better.

    8. Once you’re on a date with her you can reasonably assume a) she doesn’t think you look creepy and b) she is attracted to you.
      At this point only you can mess it up.

    9. Kind of off topic, but I was reading some comment thread on Facebook about some feminist nonsense, and someone posted a comment (not verbatim): just admit you’re posting this because you think that girl you never knew too well but always wanted to bang will hopefully see this and like it, possibly leading to a conversation..etc” I found that comment humorous and definitely a something most readers here would understand. Someone below responds, “just admit you’re a neckbeardy a-hole blah blah blah…”
      I seen this trend a few more times on other comment treads throughout the Internet. My confusion is: why are manginas neckbeards calling others who reference red pill truths as neckbeards?

      1. They think acting alpha equals being alpha. Plus, in the blue pill world they think we are insecure because we hate girls or something. We just point unpleasant facts about male and female nature, to the mind of a blue pill drone that comes off as insecurity or neediness.

    10. Most “creepy” guys are just ugly
      Dude,I’ve seen male models strike out and go home to spank it. I’ve also seen ugly homeless guys with beautiful girls.

    11. Women have an enormous range of tastes when it comes to attraction. Experience has taught me this. Skinny hipster kid? Some chick thinks he’s hot. Punk rocker with bad fashion sense? Some chick thinks he’s hot. Technoviking? Some chick thinks he’s hot.

    1. The article is aimed at men who do not know this sort of thing and are scared of being labeled “creeps” (aka betas)

        1. That works. My grandfather had a wonderful solution to this issue. He had an office in NYC and a wife in florida. The wife was on a two year pregnancy cycle. He would fly home after work on Friday, have a drink and go to bed. On Saturday he would get up and play gold, take a nap in the afternoon and then take the family for dinner. On Sunday he would have breakfast with his wife and then fly back to NYC.
          Of course, you need to be a solid earner for this and it doesn’t hurt if the woman you are with grew up during the great depression.

  7. My technique for going in for a kiss is slightly unorthodox and a bit authoritative:
    During a conversation I stare deep into their eyes, as if I am piercing their soul. Then, when they are in mid-sentence I say to them ‘come here’ (and motion them to get closer). They are completely caught off guard but follow directions anyway and lean in closer to me. At that point I lean in and give them the best damn kiss they I’ve ever had. I end it prematurely so they have a thirst for more. Immediately after the kiss I quickly continue the conversation like if nothing happened. This turns them on significantly and they have trouble following after what just transpired.
    I highly recommend this technique because you establish your dominance and frame. It’s classical conditioning, when they here the words “come here” they know the reward that’s waiting for them if they listen to the instructions.

  8. When I was 17 a friend of mine who was a player and 10 years older told me once “if you don’t ask, you’ll never know”.
    He was saying basically to cut through the crap and just ask her over for sex.
    This was the 1980s. Back then it had mixed results. Sometimes it was “wing-shot-off” crash and burn, sometimes they would say “OK”.
    I could not help but notice, however, that those who said “OK” had all the appearance and self respect of, well, the kind of woman who knows any cock will do.
    Over the years I find that asking without actually asking worked better. Actions speaking louder than words and all that.
    But now that I’m over 40 I’m dealing with women whose hormones are on a last gasp and they are horny as fuck, but America being a roiling sea of blubber is does not make this a good thing. I’d sooner slam my dick in the door.

    1. Those women aren’t on their hormonal last gasp, their on their SMV and female power last gasp. What you perceive as horny is just them being very aggressive in trying to manipulate a man.

  9. I like to start by showing off that I am up to date on all sorts of interesting statistics…such as the fact that 4 out of 5 people enjoy gang rape.

  10. Upon getting a return hello from any woman I usually tear off their shirt, snort a line of kratom off their tits and then ask, calm as can be, if she would like to know my raw score and my electrolyte count…..

  11. Do women ever get called creepy? If a woman tries to chat up a man and he’s not attracted to her, nobody calls her creepy, that would be misogynist. If a woman tries to kiss a man and he’s not interested, he should feel flattered by her attention. Calling a man creepy is just another way women try to shame beta males, to keep them in their place and pedestalizing women.

    1. I started making it a point to start calling out woman’s creepy behavior no matter who I’m with. Whenever I’m watching a show or movie with my friends, family or girl and there’s a female character pursuing a male character I’ll remark how creepy it is and people around me will invariably agree. Why should women get off easy?
      However, this also has great application in game. I was in a musical with a cute girl who had a crush on me and she sent me an unsolicited email asking what I was wearing. She of course meant for the production but I replied laconically with something along the lines of “I’m wearing clothes,” playfully framing her as a creep. She found that hilarious.
      When a girl I’m with gives me that doey-eyed look and goes in to kiss me I will often turn my head away with a skeptical, out-of-the-corner-of-my-eyes look that you see snotty girls giving guys when they say something “weird.”
      It never fails to put them into the role of pursuer and have them start explaining their behavior.
      Ahhh the fun of game….

        1. If you study game you’ll find that alot of the most effective game tactics (teasing, not responding to texts, busting a girl’s balls and being difficult, making skeptical faces when she says or does something weird) work because alot of alpha male behavior overlaps with “bitch behavior.” Now whether bitchy girls learn this behavior from the asshole boyfriends they date or whether it is something innate or both is a debate for another day.
          I believe even Roosh would agree with me that a high status alpha male man acts not unlike a high maintenance woman in regards to some aspects of his dating life. (Abundance = ZFG on your part whether she’s pissed off or feels challenged by what you do. In other words you show you don’t care whether you lose her or not.)
          Now I’ll assume you’re a man who’s read game and realizes this is true on some level.
          If not, I’ll assume you’re a woman who hates how this behavior works so well.

        2. I see no reason to argue but truth is these game tactics work for me and countless other men. Call it bitch behavior if you want. Makes no difference to me. Best of luck to your game endeavors.

    2. Nah. I’ve got a couple of daughters and there are definitely some creepy guys out there and a good reason to carry a gun and/or a knife where legal. But they aren’t the guys they’d go out with, or even give a polite turn down if asked. It’s the guy coming every day to chat them up at work, and ask co-workers for their schedule, or ‘happen’ to be in the parking lot repeatedly as they’re going to their car. That’s the kind that I’ve heard the girls call creepy. Not guys they meet at social events like concerts etc.

      1. What you’ve defined there is a stalker.
        What’s messed up is if a girl does that same thing to a guy, it’s perfectly ok.

        1. Yep. But that’s the kind of guy my daughters and her friends describe as creepy- not the guy that was pushy and wouldn’t take no for an answer on a date. That guy (and this happened) crosses into creepy if he starts parking on their street for hours, or showing up at their church never having attended there before…when they don’t get the second date.

        2. When females do that they are just doing their “homework” on a guy, and being “friendly” and “checking in” and “keeping the channels of communication open”. They get a pussy pass to get away with behavior that they shame men for.

    3. I’ve known quite a few creepy bitches in my day. The kind nobody wants to fuck because they’re afraid they will wake up missing a kidney.
      The kind I can’t get fucking rid of.

    4. Adele is creepy. “Hello from the other side. I must’ve called a thousand times just to tell you I’m sorry.”
      Let’s put that through the red-pill translator (beep boop beep boop): “I’m the crazy ex who dumped you but keeps stalking/calling you out of the blue to continue discussing our dead relationship because of my feeeeeelz.”

        1. Not if it was sung by Adam Levine. The song “Animal” is about a creepy, obsessed stalker and I’ve had gfs who fell in love with him over that song. In fact, most lyrical content in popular Maroon 5 songs (most girls I know seem to have them all memorized by heart) comes off as needy, hence creepy if articulated to a girl by your average beta. Slightly needy is the new creepy. All the more reason to practice game.

  12. Not sure this article is on point with its intention. If you’re on an actual physical date with a girl, or going for a kiss, you’ve already passed the “creepiness test.” Then you’re dealing with LMR.
    The biggest things to get the creepy label are: being quiet, being out alone, physically isolating yourself in corners, along walls, or at the end of the bar, not talking to anyone, standing at the edge of a dance floor, and not bailing when an approach has failed. Ever see a group of foreign guys try following a group of “nice girls” afraid to tell them off around all night? It is creepy.
    So the solutions are just be loud, be obnoxious, take up a bunch of space, and be seen with a bunch of people. This will just get you labeled as a “dick” which is much better.

    1. Just out of curiosity, why do you say being out alone. I have very good luck being out alone. It might be because I am older and when I go out I tend to go to nice places and dress well….but almost every time that I go out and sit down at one of my regular places I meet someone and it is because they made it a point to meet me.

      1. It’s conditional, dependent on the time and venue but especially on whether or not the other factors I listed are present. I.e.:
        Alone at a happy hour = guy out for a drink after work
        Guy alone at the edge of a dance floor late Saturday night = hemorrhaging social value

        1. Some PUAs say advanced game is going out alone. I’m not PUA but I find I do better alone. I don’t benefit from having a wing man interjecting like a game show host.

        2. That makes sense. I have mentioned before that I like hotel bars. I am not sure about other cities, but they are great in new York for tourist game and meeting upscale locals. (I like a well heeled, fit blonde who is wearing heels that cost the GDP of a small south American country….it’s just what I am in to).
          So when I go to one with a nice jacket and tie on and sit down and wait for the paino player to start playing and order a drink it usually takes all of about 15 minutes before someone starts talking to me. My response, of course, is dependent on if I find them attractive.
          This works for me as close to 100% of the time as is possible. However, I can see what you mean by a guy on the edge of a dance floor on a late Saturday night. I just don’t frequent places with dance floors

        3. Going out alone shows confidence and you couldn’t give 2 shits what other people think. Leaders tend to go alone and others follow.

  13. A clean mouth is key! I offended some women in my younger years with my leftover mexican food breath. I suppose if you’re lucky you might get a gal that’s into that type of thing…

      1. haha, that would be an appropriate comment for The Art of Manliness. “To really impress women, refrain from cussing and act like a well-mannered gentleman. Always hold the door for her and bring her flowers on the first date”.

        1. It’s like they are still in the 50’s. Might as well write an article: “Is your son a communist ? 5 signs your son is a soviet spy”.
          Thnking about it though, it’s kinda sad most realistic game guides would probably sound like “how to finger a hoe on the dancefloor without the bouncer noticing” or “5 ways to remove genital warts with Apple Cider Vinegar” . Times have changed, might be time to catch up.

        2. It remins of all those MGTOWs complaining that tradditionalists are still gynocentric, they exagerarate a lot. Hard to believe that guys that want to remove female voting rights are as bad as progressive faggots.
          But there is some truth to that. Women are not traditional nor liberal, it took me time to figure that out. They will just use the current paradigm to advance their interests. Back in the day, women were the most traditionalist. They demanded the ban on alcohol and banning prostitution. Can’t have the husband have time outside the house, eh. Now they claim to live in rape culture and want more affirmstive action, free tampons and money to single moms.
          The henpecked “traditionalists” will shame men into being obedient betas and keeping their side of the social contract meanwhile they wont ever have the balls to demand women cook, stop swearing and dressing like men, or dare god remove their voting rights.
          It’s sham, gotta call it for what it is. It seems that’s where AoM is heading. Never let women into male spaces, they will just subvert them to their own goals.
          Even wives, daughters, sisters and mothers. ESPECIALLY not them.

        3. “How to purchase a recording for her to play on the gramophone.”
          “How to construct a love letter to be transmitted by telegraphy.”
          “What a man should keep in his icebox.”
          “Why you should not court a sock-dologizing man-trap.”

  14. Just remembered this gem of an article
    http://www.goodlookingloser.com/?view=entry&id=230

    If you are afraid of getting called names, you won’t get laid. Ocassional negative reactions are part of the game. Especially for guys that escalate hard.
    The harder you escalate, the more you will get laid, but also more girls will reject you upfront and the rejections will be harsher as well, some might call you creepy or go crazy, who cares. Do whatever you need to do to get laid (within limits).
    Assuming you make sure your looks are above average there is nothing you can really do to not be called creepy, due to 2 reasons :
    1) It takes 2 to tango. Most girls this days have low social intelligence, confidence, etc. I don’t get it why guys feel insecure when 25 percent of american women are on some kind of medication, there might be nothing wrong with you. She might be the bitch (this is one of the most liberating and enlighting things a man can know)

    2) If you are trying to get laid, you must polarize, which means determine quickly if she is into you and if she is available. This means there will be a lot of girls who are really into you, and a lot that will hate you(and call you names like creep). That’s part of life. Again a girl getting pissed at you is not your problem, unless you are really ugly or have no social calibration this is no fault of your own. Just let it go and stop caring

    1. lol… unfortunately with the lower coffee shop video she is just verbalizing what most american women feel when they get approached by a male they don’t think is hot enough for them. Its the other side of the coin of third wave feminism. Not only should women feel entitled to fuck any man they want without consequences, they should feel entitled to shame any male they don’t want to fuck. I like the way the guy laughed it off and maintained frame.

      1. Yup. He could say nonsense things like, “car, chicken, rub toke.”, and she’ll be like, “You’re so funny. Giggle, heehee.”

    2. Great GLL video – I agree 100% with everything he says. My article doesn’t contradict it. My point is simply that you should own the frame and not accept the frame of ‘creepy’ when you hit on girls.

  15. why does anyone on ROK give a fuck what women think about them? this is blue pill shit. you all should’ve got past this mindset in college at the latest.
    we going to have another article ‘how to hold hands with a girl’ ?
    ‘how to be comfortable around women’
    ‘how to pick out the perfect engagement ring’
    I guess the past 2 weeks the articles have been so solid we were due for a shit one. not a bad batting average I guess, but the title of this makes me cringe.

    1. Holy shit. THIS
      New articles :
      “How to not be called racist. A guide to a perfect cuckservative”
      “How to not be called sexist. Paying for your girlfriends new lover while she pegs you”
      “How to check your privillege 101”
      “Why feelings are the most important thing in the world”
      “Are you true alpha male ? Dressing as a transgender, because alpha males are confident enough to not care about social norms”
      “On being a true alpha father. Teaching your son charity by giving all his piggybank money to Somalians”
      “10 movies for the true sensitive alpha males, inluding Bareback Mountain and Danish girl”

    2. yeah, it’s a very weak article.. exactly wtf? in general, there’s no kissing crap, holding hands with me.. the date ends with “are you coming upstairs?” if it’s a yes we know what happens, if it’s a no, good bye and I’ll call you if I ever remember..

      1. Yep me too. But 99.999% of the time some sort of make-out precludes sex. Put it this way, if she’s not kissing you, she’s not having your D in her V.
        Read my article on make-outs linked at the end of the OP for more.

        1. ” Put it this way, if she’s not kissing you, she’s not having your D in her V.”
          That’s up to a certain age. After that it goes like this: “hey, wanna come upstairs and fuck?” yey/nay..

        2. It can. But I pulled a girl back to my place within ten minutes of meeting her in London a while back. I fucked a girl in a club within 5. Still made out with them. It’s a fairly standard thing to do in the build up to sex.

    3. Walk up to the woman in line (at the store, Starbucks, wherever…), smack her on the ass and ask her “where have you been?” with a smile on your face.
      You’ll either get smacked or you’ll get the big smile.
      There is no “in between”.
      Now, get out there!

  16. nah women call you creepy when they cant get you to get with the program. Its just a roundabout way of trying to force you to conform.

  17. About one year ago i was sitting late at night in a train.Two young women were sitting near to me.They were dressed slutty and seemed to be little drunk and hysterical.Probably they came from a party.They were not able to sit still and all the time they were spreading and lifting their legs.Therefore their slips
    (and cunts) were very easy to see.Actually it was impossible not to see them.I said to them: ” Oh yes, i see everything”
    But they just responded to me ” What a perverted creep!”
    I was a little surprised and disapointed but then i asked:
    “If i pay 20 Euro, is it enough?”
    They were shocked.Then i left the train.
    What idiotic sluts nowadays.Trying to get attention and when they get it then they call guys a creep.
    Actually this was the first time when a woman called me a creep.

    1. You weren’t alpha enough or they would have flirted back. But a bitch shield can sometimes be overcome with bantering. Drunk sluts have been known to wake up the next morning with the man they called creep the night before. If you’re hitting the clubs twice a week in a major metro area you are going to encounter that. Think of it as practice opportunity. Try not to get adversarial. Keep it cocky, witty, funny as long as possible.

      1. Yes thanks.That was probably my mistake.It was late at night, i was tired and not in the best mood.Actually i was irritated by their hysterical behaviour.From my experience its absolutely useless to try to have a intelligent conversation with hysterical women.I guess therefore my voice did sound a little adversarial.

    1. Or written for people with the emotional development and social skills of an 18 year old. Of course, I’ve just described the average follower of this … nope, better stop right now.

  18. There was once an article written on RoK about how “Creep” was the new “nigger” and the young man in me couldnt have agreed more.
    This article was helpful.

    1. So all the time that the word “creep” was being bandied about on “Leave it to Beaver” they really meant “nigger”?! Amazeballs!

      1. Thanks Ace.
        This article really struck a cord with me when I read it, and knowing that someone out there (you and a handful of commenters on that article) made the same observations as me helped me deal with a fear of being labeled a “creep” and handle situations when it comes up.

  19. Troy!!!! You wanna avoid being creepy to women? Do what thsi guy does, he seems be WILDLY successful!!!
    A twitter account I happened to stumble upon:

    This guy’s methods are simple. Go all around twitter looking for the hottest girls, making sure they’re attention whores and thus most likely promiscuous from their account activity. Tell them to send you nudes or GTFO. Tell them to send you nudes holding up your name in the picture. Tell them to send you money. I’d estimate 1 out of 100 actually do. Then you hope some of them live nearby. Then you just tell them to keep sending you nudes with your name in the picture. Then you tell them to keep sending you money. Then eventually you know they’re DTF if they’ve been sending all those goodies so far. And voila. Insta-harem. Last I checked, this guy was at 88, all of them with smokin’ bodies in my opinion.
    THis guy is the next step. This is what the future has in store. Roosh is already obsolete. Game? I’ll bet this guy doesn’t waste any time even talking to them in person.

  20. If you express overt interest to a woman who does not find you attractive, you will labelled as creepy and there is nothing you can do about it
    The author talks about how to act on a date, but if a woman finds you creepy you will never get that first date with her
    Dating is beta behavior anyway

    1. You make good points, but saying ‘dating is beta behaviour’ is splitting semantic hairs. My ‘dates’ are usually one drink in a local bar before a cab back to my place, so I don’t mean dating like in a 1950s sitcom, but you have to meet up with her somewhere.

  21. How not to be creepy to girls: be conventionally attractive, and don’t be a pussy. You can get away with whatever you want if some girl thinks you’re hawt. If they think you’re ugly good luck. The kiss 15 minutes in is next level. If a girl has agreed to go on a date with you they should expect that you would kiss them. Your argument is solid.

  22. I take a balls out approach to the world.
    I never get the cheek. This is because I do one of two things. A) I grab her by the face or back of the neck and pull her towards me as I kiss her. Women always submit to this display of dominance.
    B) I get her to kiss me first. I have achieved this within minutes of meeting a woman. In some cases I have had my hand up her skirt in the same amount of time, in a bar.
    Always display dominance behavior around women. Do not give into the media’s message that you should be nice and respectful. Fuck that shit. That’s for the men who aren’t getting none.

  23. I am creepy. I revel in being creepy. I am a year older than my girlfriend’s father and he wants to kill me, that is how creepy I am. I am a 49 year old man who fucks a 27 year old girl. If she breaks my heart then I will ditch her and chase after my 17 year old former student. That is how creepy I am. Be creepy; embrace it!

  24. Excuse me, but wasn’t it the great student of human relationships, Dr. Ted Nugent, who opined “When in doubt, whip it out.” Now if that’s not “red tablet”, or whatever it’s called on this forum, I don’t know what is.

  25. If you are 20-something and “awkward” then then the first major mind job you have to embrace is to not give a fuck. If you want something in life, then just ask for it. If you want to fuck that supermodel then just ask. If you want to make that million dollar deal then just ask. Never beg on all fours but always say that you have something to bring to the table.

  26. The only thing to fear is fear itself. Approach. I am not a PUA and don’t go in for that shit. If you want pussy then ask for it. The world is moving to “Yes means yes”. You have to be up front with what you want and how you want it.

  27. “I just came out for a nice drink and to get to know you and you are violating social convention by trying to kiss me before we know each other well.”
    “I am a man and you are a woman. I am attracted to you and that is entirely normal. We are on a date together, and so what could be more natural than that I kiss you?”
    This is called “Frame”? Dafuq? Sounds more like negotiation. When negotiating, always go for the extreme position first, even though the other party probably won’t buy it. So here goes:
    “I just came out for a nice drink and to get to know you and you are violating social convention by trying to kiss me before we know each other well.”
    “I am a man and you are a woman. I am attracted to you and that is entirely normal. We are on a date together, and so what could be more natural than we have intercourse?”
    “But we don’t know each other that well for that.”
    “OK, so how about a kiss, then”?
    “Oh, well, OK”
    There. A frame fit for the Mona Lisa.

    1. The two sentences you quote were not a dialogue, they are roughly what the woman and man on the date are thinking.
      Frame is about owning the interaction and this doesn’t usually happen only through speech, if at all through it.

    1. Or even “serial killer”, which, paradoxically, seems to be the exact opposite of “creepy” in women’s minds.

  28. “Smirk, pull back, talk about neutral topics and then try again a little
    later. Sometimes it takes four or even five attempts before your kiss
    will be reciprocated – that’s absolutely fine, unless of course she is
    very angrily telling you to back off, in which case things have gone
    irrevocably wrong and you should apologize and leave immediately. But if
    she’s still sitting there then you can be confident that she’s
    interested and that it’s your job to persist.”
    Great advice. Building on this idea of the kiss, I remember I was courting a girl once in my early days. I tried kissing her and she constantly would resist, I kept pursuing her and wanted to bang her, we became “friends” over time (this went on for a month). I was naive back then and white knighting is what I did, like I said this was my younger days, but I have to say when naturally I started courting other women and totally forgot about her because I did not want to waste time on her; as soon as this happened, the panties dropped. Lesson learned. She wanted what she couldn’t have. I have to say I have used this tactic with other girls and it drives them nuts when another woman finds you attractive.
    Don’t play by her rules, play by your own. Nothing is “wrong”, “creepy”, or “scary” about you. Be confident in your actions, again great advice/article for those feeling “creepy”.
    Apathy to her and her feelings is the best way to get laid.

  29. Just pull out a wad of $100 bills. Magically, you’re no longer a geek – you’re a potential dating candidate.

    1. Yupp………… Win 30 millions in lotto & you will have to fight off lots of bimbos gold diggers, even if you look like Dany de Vito ???

  30. Except if the “Frame” is reality. This is good advice for say, another jock but not for someone who is totally out of his realm. I remember seeing this in an episode of Cheers.
    The postman managed to get a date with the cute blond. She was telling him about how to treat a girl and what they like when he asks “Why doesn’t Sam have to do any of that stuff?” (Sam is the owner of the bar) She answers “Because he’s gorgeous!”
    It works the same for girls. Cute girls quickly find out that they can get away with a LOT more than the not so pretty girls, and they can get away with murder if they are wearing a short skirt.
    This article has some good advice about the frame though. Striking up a conversation is not socially unacceptable and if any girl thinks that it is, just say whatever and move on, it’s her problem.

  31. The label creepy is simply applied to males they are not attracted to. Pure and simple. If you look ugly, but have a refined gentleman’s stature, you will still be called a creep while a tall rich man leering at her ass will be called a “real man”.

  32. The best way to develop a strong frame is by going out and taking action. (in my opinion) It’s like driving, the first time was awkward or even scary, but now its normal and easy. To me being confidence in something is being comfortable in that situation because you have done it so many times, and you know the out come. But that confidence can go away after time. I just got back into cold approaching in the US after months of traveling. It’s like Drake’s song Use to ” ain’t felt the pressure in a little while It’s gonna take some getting used to” I crashed and burn on every set until the last one, but even do I got her number I know I fucked up.

  33. How to be creepy: show your lady friend this website and these Rodger Elliot InCel train wrecks who look want Gisele Bundchen clones when they look like Mr. Eds. Broke, miserable trash who pride themselves on trying to use women for sexual gratification.

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