How To Get Out Of Paying Student Loans

Americans owe over $1 trillion in student loans, an average of $30,000 for every graduate. These loans, unlike any other form of debt, will not be dismissed—even in bankruptcy. Decades ago someone could work summers and put themselves through school. That’s not feasible in modern times because the price of a higher education has risen 500% since 1985, as colleges have been turned into fiefdoms for avaricious administrators.

Ironically, an education system that used to be the gateway to the middle class looks outdated and like a ticket to bondage in the Information Age. It has been manipulated by bankers and politicians in such a way its now designed to turn young men and women into pliable debt slaves, selling them an education that is increasingly worthless as the market becomes saturated with rubber stamps from a magic piece of paper system. Popular media personality Mike Rowe has frequently discussed the insanity of such a system as he pushes the unpopular idea that maybe college education shouldn’t be for everyone.

If we are lending money that ostensibly we don’t have to kids who have no hope of making it back in order to train them for jobs that clearly don’t exist, I might suggest that we’ve gone around the bend a little bit.

Gone around the bend, we have. Nearly half of college graduates are underemployed. According to Rowe, there are 3.9 million blue collar jobs available right now that nobody wants. Jobs in transportation, commerce, and trades. Many of them pay well. The problem is, for generations students have been steered towards a one-size-fits-all idea of what a worthwhile career is while taking on enormous amounts of debt. The brainwashing about the miracles of a college education begins at age five and continues through elementary and high school, when adults pushing these fantasies on kids should know supply and demand economics well enough to figure out not everyone is going to end up with a great job—even if they follow the life plan being pushed on them.

The last couple of years in high school the big topic is college, college, college, pushed by amoral guidance counselors who tell students the only respectable way to make a living is to get a degree and then become a corporate drone for 40 to 50 years. Then, these former students turn 30 years old, deeply in debt and disillusioned before they realize they’ve been had by an education system that only is interested in its own self-aggrandizement.

When trades are looked down on in the education system, everybody wants a magic piece of paper

When trades are looked down on in the education system, everybody wants a magic piece of paper

Market Watch laid out some interesting trends about today’s education system fantasies. According to “journalists” the average college graduate makes about $78,000 a year. Pardon me while I clean up the tea I just spewed while laughing at that statistic….it goes without saying a LOT of students will never earn that much in today’s decaying job market. Here are some numbers that reflect reality a little better:

  • 19% of underemployed college graduates are making about $23,500 a year on average flinging coffee-themed milk shakes at Fivebucks, and in other low-skilled jobs like bartenders and cashiers
  • 26% are making about $37,000 a year working in office and administrative positions, in other words, living life in Office Space hell

And, of course the numbers skew worse for younger college graduates, according to a report entitled Are College Graduates Finding Good Jobs?

In all years, the underemployment rates is higher for recent college graduates than for college graduates as a whole, indicating that underemployment is consistently more widespread for this group.

So, what does the average man who drunk the “go to college” Kool-Aid do when he finds himself either underemployed or unemployed because the Evil White Male™ need not apply, or will be last in line for promotion? Or his company sold its soul at the altar of globalization? He fucks over and sells out a system that has repeatedly fucked him over and sold him out. In other words, he legally manipulates the circumstances to his advantage. He goes Galt. What does Going Galt mean? According to The Atlas Society:

  • “Going Galt” means asking in the face of new taxes and government controls, “Why work at all?” “For whom am I working?” “Am I a slave?”
  • “Going Galt” means recognizing that you’re being punished not for your vices but for your virtues.
  • “Going Galt” means recognizing that you have a moral right to your own life, the pursuit of your own happiness, and thus to the rewards you’ve earned with your labor.
  • “Going Galt” means recognizing that you deserve praise and honor for your achievements rather than damnation as “exploiters.”
  • “Going Galt” means recognizing that you do not need to justify your life or wealth to your neighbors, “society,” or politicians, or bureaucrats. They’re yours, period!
  • “Going Galt” means recognizing that the needs of others do not give them a claim to your time, effort, and achievements.
  • “Going Galt” means shrugging off unearned guilt, refusing to support your own destroyers, refusing to give them what Ayn Rand termed “the sanction of the victim.” It means taking the moral high ground by explicitly rejecting as evil the premise of “self-sacrifice” that they sell to you as a virtue— in fact “self-sacrifice” is an invitation to suicide.

More than a great novel, Atlas Shrugged provides the blueprint for the Red Pill man to escape exploitation.

Action Plan


Didn’t get the memo? White males need not apply

For many of us, the reward promised to us since childhood for time served and good beta male behavior vanished as soon as we went to collect it. It wasn’t through accident that it vanished. The disappearance was by design of cultural Marxists and the corporate-government complex. A decent wife, white picket fence, decent work for decent pay, a new car every decade or so, and a few bucks in the bank for retirement has become a pipe dream as American workers are shamelessly sold out in the 21st century with everything from NAFTA and CAFTA to TPP to other “free trade” agreements, which are really precursors to global government. Not to mention feminism teaching women to hate men.

When “Neo” figuratively wakes up and realizes the reality of the incubator he’s been placed into, who can blame him for just wanting out of a system that sold him out and deceived him? Especially if he just wants his freedom back!

So, I came up with a plan. It’s not without sacrifice. Here are some pros and cons of the plan:

  • Pro: Moves men to a life of minimalism instead of one of consumerism, after all it doesn’t take much for a man to live on.
  • Pro: Stops men from turning themselves into meal tickets for women.
  • Pro: Takes tax dollars and productivity out of a system that exploits and hates men.
  • Pro: Punishes banksters and government officials who caused the price of education to soar beyond reach by inflating an education bubble with taxpayer money.
  • Con: Some will be so enamored of the vision of a life of consumerism they will attack those who promote the plan. As Morpheus warns Neo: You have to understand. Most people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured and so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it.
  • Con: Forces serious lifestyle changes.
  • Con: Cuts down on investment potential. (Can be mitigated through lower cost of living).

A little background on why I developed this plan: I made a solid effort to repay my student loans, making installments on a meager income for years only to see the balance really didn’t go down that much. I didn’t make much money, so even after college I was largely just paying interest on student loans for 10 years. Personally, in my chosen profession of television news I knew I wouldn’t be making much money the first 10 years, but I was assured that after a decade in the business I would have “paid my dues” and earn a decent salary.

But, there is no “paying of dues” anymore as media corporations have sold everyone out. Young, vacuous, just out of college girls now fill positions that required a minimum of 10 years of experience back in the day. HR harridans relentlessly punish disobedience to the female superiority agenda and heresy against Evil White Male™ doxy. TV news is a field has become miserable to work in, spouting Marxism (which I hate) 24/7, and is a revolving door with no sense of security and a higher than average suicide rate.

Suffice it to say I was on the chopping block because I was making “too much money” and they could get a just out of college girl for literally half price. Not to mention I had blonde hair, blue eyes, and a penis, the wrong traits to have in the 21st century. I refused to contribute anymore to broadcasts on which I was regularly being demonized as a white man. I was sold a false bill of goods without the possibility of a refund.

All the reasons I went to college in the first place rather than going straight into employment were stripped away—intentionally—by a collusion of corporate and government interests to sell out the American worker. I needed a way out. So, after paying off all my consumer debt and selling everything I owned, I devised this Going Galt plan to escape student loan debt—playing by the very rules the system made up.

  • Step One: Quit your job and go for a lower paying job, preferably abroad where the cost of living is lower, the women aren’t fatties, and there is still a modicum of freedom. Importantly, the total cost of living for a single man abroad is less than the average child support payment! Failing that, minimalism is an option if you want to stay stateside. As featured in numerous articles about minimalism on my blog, there are even tiny house living options for the fraction of the cost of a new house.
  • Step Two: Call your loan servicer and get a temporary unemployment or economic hardship deferment. (Careful, only three years of these over the life of the loan are allowed.) Other alternatives include getting on a tiered repayment plan with lower payments until you complete a full year of a new, lower income lifestyle for your W-2 forms.
  • Step Three: File taxes with your new, lower income the following year. For Federal student loans, you can earn 1.5x the poverty rate and not be forced to pay a dime—and without ruining your credit as long as you get on an income-based repayment. That’s currently $17,820 annually or $1,485 monthly you can earn (on the books—heh) without paying a dime back. Submit income tax information to your loan servicer to be placed on an IBR. Re-certify your low income status each year.
  • Step Four: If you wish to earn more than $17,820 your repayments will be capped at 10% to 15% of your income above that amount. The goal is to find the right balance between minimalism, investing, and finding a job you can live with.
  • Step Five: For recent grads, the loans are forgiven in 20 years; for older grads they’re forgiven in 25 years. Obama has capped the amount that can be forgiven at just over $59,000.

As alluded to earlier, it is recommended one pay off ALL consumer debt before attempting this plan. This will make the transition to a lower income, simpler life possible. The beauty of this plan is it doesn’t take much for a man to live on once he’s deprogrammed himself of the consumer fantasies put into his mind his entire life. Personally, if a government can’t offer me anything but villainization for being a white man, a society can’t offer a decent woman who is not a whore or a man-hating feminist, it breaks promises of gainful employment and job security through shoddy government and banking policies, it manipulates the supply of college degrees and cost of an education in a way that turns men into debt slaves, and further enslaves men with child support and alimony, why in the hell am I going to kill myself supporting that system?

Who is John Galt? Why, I'm John Galt

Who is John Galt? Why, I’m John Galt

Inspiration to push back against exploitation of male labor and productivity, student loan ball and chains, misandry, discrimination against white men, and other assorted misadventures comes from the classic Ayn Rand novel. In Atlas Shrugged, Francisco d’Anconia, who blew up all the copper mines in the world, said this about John Galt:

He had quit the Twentieth Century. He was living in a garret in a slum neighborhood. He stepped to the window and pointed at the skyscrapers of the city. He said that we had to extinguish the lights of the world, and when we would see the lights of New York go out, we would know that our job was done.

John Galt himself said it best:

There is only one kind of men who have never been on strike in human history … the men who have carried the world on their shoulders, have kept it alive, have endured torture as sole payment … Well, their turn has come. Let the world discover who they are, what they do and what happens when they refuse to function. This is the strike of the men of the mind.

College graduates who get shafted as the system they invested their entire lives in changes the rules, these men of the mind, must stop supporting a system that sees them as nothing more than tax-paying pack mules for women and society. How do we do that? By going on strike and removing ourselves from a system that exploits us. Unless men take real world action, internet frustration is accomplishing nothing but hyperbole. If watching the world go by for over three decades has taught me anything, culminating in Hillary getting her charges dismissed, it’s that rules and laws are for fucking losers. It’s those who break the rules that win.

Or, in this case, those who manipulate a bureaucracy’s own rules and regulations against it to escape a predatory education loan system and its debt slavery.

Read More: How To Know If You Should Take Out Student Loans

450 thoughts on “How To Get Out Of Paying Student Loans”

  1. I would state join the Military and get the GI bill, I get paid to go to college now. Each term the VA pays me $3100.00 for LQA and classes are also payed. however not with the social expertment cluster fuck it has turned into. Glad I got out in 2012.

    1. Even with the social experiment, I would still advise it. Believe it or not, it is still one of the last places that brutal red pill really exists. All this feel good shit doesn’t exist in combat because it can’t. And at the end of the day, college is just as much of a social experiment these days. So pay to get that credential, or have someone pay you.

    2. Did the same myself and worked it to where I only have $10k worth of student debt after ten years. Told the wife no major purchases unless it’s an emergency until we pay off this debt. She agreed and the next car we’ll get well be around tax return time.

  2. It just occurred to me that by pushing college on our kids, it hides the complete and utter failure of public schools.
    If everyone dealt with highschool graduates entering the workforce, we’d all see that public schools fail utterly. Having kids go on to college allows for two things:
    1) Admission to college creates the illusion that their public school education was of a certain quality. (Otherwise, they’d not have been accepted, right?)
    2) It gives kids an extra four years to catch up things they should have known by age 14. I personally had never written more than a paragraph before my junior year of COLLEGE.

    1. Nowhere in the world is there such a disparity in quality between primary/secondary public school education and higher (tertiary) education.
      An American university education is the envy of the world while its public K-12 school system is the laughing stock of the world.

      1. Schools are strictly brainwashing camps. All they teach is social justice and white guilt. Male teachers are fags and losers. Female teachers are bimbo bitches.
        Public school is a form of welfare for unemployable asshats that clean up well.

        1. I will say I would love to be a teacher for gifted youth. But unfortunately, most gifted programs have been cut due to budget constraints. We need more sign language instructors and teaching aides for retarded children. Gifted children? Fuck ’em. If they is smart, they gonna do just fine on their own.

        2. Let’s put it into another perspective. The money spent on public education in one year could re-industrialize the US & return the country to a manufacturing based economy. When I went to grade school in the 1950’s most everything was made in the U.S. including my cowboy themed lunchbox! Two years of that money would re-build the entire US infrastructure & then some!

        3. No shit.
          In my kid’s school, for part of the day 1/2 the class went to a “gifted” class, while the other half went to the “learning disabled” class.
          My kid was one of THREE that went to neither and stayed in the classroom.
          There’s a retarded kid in the class who has a woman come in to “help” him take tests. She reads the questions, explains them, then fills in “his” answers.

      2. “An American university education is the envy of the world”
        Higher edu has become pathetic in the West. Pandering to the lowest common denominator = big bucks $$$. Even die-hard STEM bulwarks like MIT and Caltech are in the process of being subverted.

        1. Yes. I recently was in Cambridge, MA for a workshop: the fact that half of MIT’s student body is female is proof they aren’t a meritocracy. I knew so many male hardcore nerds obsessed with science back in high school. All went to state schools. The girls got good grades but had zero passion or genuine interest in anything STEM related.

        2. They get good grades because they are good at what they are supposed to do: regurgitate the information that was spoon-fed to them by professors. The same professors who punish male students for thinking out of the box. Mindless obedience is rewarded, while creativity and insight are not. That’s modern higher edu in a nutshell.

        3. Lol actually I was never able to get into comics or graphic novels.
          I’d rather blow things up. Or cut someone open.

        4. This is correct. I was “made an example of” by a physics prof because I questioned the validity of the Big Bang theory. I noted that they had to invent something that cannot be observed, measured or proven, Dark Matter and Dark Energy, in order to fudge 95% of the math to make the theory “work”. I also questioned where, precisely did this singularity come from and, lacking a means to measure it due to a lack of time, space and dimension prior to its explosion, how precisely can its explosion be explained in any comprehensible manner, and further, how can it even be proven that there was a “singularity” since there would be no means to measure it? In short, the math is lacking *after* the explosion, and in order to believe in the singularity you have to believe that everything appeared out of nowhere and explodes for no explainable or provable reason.
          Now my thoughts might be debated, they might be corrected if wrong, but I didn’t get that at all. What I got was sneering derision as the prof stood over me and leered with ghastly hatred, informing me of how pedestrian and unenlightened I was to think I even had the *right* to make such observations and ask such questions. A physics professor, acting *exactly* like we hear the Inquisitors of old talked about in history books.
          Meanwhile, nobody else ever, ever questioned anything at a fundamental level. They took notes. They took exams. They asked questions about how to do the math, but never questioned if the math actually bolstered the science.
          Meanwhile I sit here looking for 95% of the invisible “dark matter” in the universe which, being 95%, should be pretty easy to detect. Come up short for some reason.

        5. So much uncertainty and un-provable theories. Yet the disgust in the thought that God exists or could have created the Universe. It always confused me how they could be that way.

        6. And yet “science” has all the answers, so “religion” should be disregarded.
          I am not particularly strongly religious (though I do believe), and I have deep respect for science. But I chuckle at all these people who think that they have adopted a system that asks for less blind faith than religion. There is very much that science cannot now, and will never be able to answer.

        7. What strikes me as funny, today, is that at the time I wasn’t even asking this to bolster religion, they were genuine questions and I figured that there must be competing theories. There are of course, but the prof was apparently married to the Big Bang come hell or high water, and likely thought I was asking in order to inject religion. Huh.

        8. You might get a chuckle out of this…

          Apparently over a decade’s worth of fMRI brain scan data is now in question because some researchers found a bug in a key algorithm. Apparently the stats accumulated while running these very expensive machines can no longer be considered statistically relevant.
          One of the reasons I left academia was because of how easy it was to publish spurious results. And the fact that we HAD TO publish those spurious results, otherwise the money would run out. The other reason was that I was surrounded by back-stabbing manginas and lesbians, but you already knew that.
          When I read this article I enjoyed a good Joker laugh.

        9. That’s what always gets me. Many of these atheists will sneer at someone of the faith, but blindly follow the religion of science even when it comes up lacking. It’s a little sad and ironic at the same time. There was a website that had 44 questions for atheists. I’ve asked some of them to online atheists before and surprise, surprise, none of them had the answers. Really basic questions like:
          What came first? The blood, the heart to pump the blood, or the vessels to carry the blood?
          What came first? The mouth to eat the food, the stomach to digest the food, or the butt to poop it out?
          Carbon 14 is what’s used in carbon dating, but the half life of that specific isotope is under 6000 years. How are scientists carbon dating things as millions of years old?

        10. how do they date things that old if the half life is only 6000 yrs?

        11. The rate of decay slows down as the amount of the carbon 14 decreases. So it can take 5000 years for two ounces of c-14 to vanish, but the remaining 1 ounce will take much much longer to disappear as its rate of decay decreases significantly.
          Still that’s only good for going back, maybe, 62,000 years or so I think.

        12. Well, that depends. If they’re using carbon-14 as the sole marker, then yes.
          There are other ways though, such as thermoluminescence, or estimating approximate age based on what layer of geological strata a thing was dug up from, etc.

        13. I recently read about it on Vox, LOL:

          I also vaguely remember a recent paper about a number of false assumptions possibly invalidating a massive amount of genetic mouse studies. I know out of personal experience that few academics understand anything about statistics, math in general, or even about the difference between causation and correlation. Most of them just coast along on assumptions. But don’t point it out to them, or you can say goodbye to your reference.

        14. It’s like you said, serious and insightful thinkers have a rough go in this scene nowadays. The system is too inflexible for them.
          They’ll get overshadowed by those who are better at playing the game.

        15. “That’s what always gets me. Many of these atheists will sneer at someone of the faith, but blindly follow the religion of science even when it comes up lacking.”
          I have noticed that a lot of these “forward thinking” atheists are also Progtards who have also put their faith in the Higher Power of a Political Messiah. They laugh at the voluntary associations of various religious organizations, while licking the boots of their Big Daddy Government Masters that coercively demand their allegiance. The delicious part is that they do this without the least bit of self-awareness or sense of their own hypocrisy

        16. What came first?
          Bogus question. Theu developed at the same time.

          You have very little understanding of carbon dating.
          Dont ask me to explain it to you.
          You can look it up.

        17. Or maybe they sucked the teacher’s dick during recess…

        18. I thought the decay rate was independent of mass. Guess I’ll have to do some reading!

        19. To be honest, I wouldn’t date any girl over 35.

        20. So I shouldnt ask a 34 y/o if I can carbon date her va-goo? Is that what youre saying?

        21. As a matter of policy, it can’t hurt.

        22. I agree with you completely, and I am less religious than just about anyone.
          Most of “science’s” claims are hubris.

        23. I’m no longer a rabid atheist, and I’m openly hostile to “science” advocates, but those questions are ones we have good ideas regarding.
          I’m disgusted that science fans don’t know this shit.
          Blood, vessels, heart is the likely order.
          Digestion, that question is wrong. These would have codeveloped and the distinctions are not as clear as we think.
          Radiometric dating is based on multiple decay rates, not just carbon. Uranium to lead is what they use for millions of years. There are a lot of assumptions to attack in dating, but not the math and methods.

        24. Different elements decay at different rates. Many assumptions are made, but beyond those assumptions dating is solid science. Question the assumptions they make if you want, but radiometric dating is pretty rational.

        25. For the first two, begin with a simple mechanism for digesting food or carrying oxygen. Allow the organism to improve and specialize. The physiological features develop later, as a result of greater development and specialization. The order does not exist because there is no specific time at which the individual features developed. A liberal won’t know the answer, because they really don’t understand evolution.
          For the second answer, they may use observed levels to set a lower bound, though on average after a million years there won’t be a single atom of carbon-14 in a one mole sample. More likely they used uranium dating, they have a way of oversimplifying their techniques.

        26. Us educations ranks 29th in the world
          Our universities are basically marxist run incubators and designed to fleece the sheep i.e. Goyim

        27. Ask them if A creation requires a Creator…..
          Ask them if nothing from nothing begets nothing
          Freakin joo atheists.

    2. Yikes! That’s, frightening Jay.
      Last month I supervised my son as he did a 5 page report for school.
      He was in 5th grade.

      1. I didn’t care about school but I’ve always excelled at test taking. Teachers loved me because I created virtually no work for them and my test scores made them look great. The one or two papers I couldn’t avoid my mom or aunt wrote for me. The teachers knew I didn’t write it, but it wasn’t worth their time to fight it.
        And I got a gooder education then kid’s today. 😉

      1. That’s pretty comprehensive. Might have liked that test and prepping for it as a child. I remember taking the science high school entry exam and failing. I consistently got high marks in all things science and was up to date on most things in the field while a girl who I trounced academically, and also a C average student, was accepted. If there was ever a turning point in my schooling that was it.

      2. My grandfather graduated from high school in 1910 at the age of 16. He took Latin, studied the Classics & spoke not only English but German & some French. He knew how to use a slide rule & was very proficient at geometry. He also knew how to type & had taken bookkeeping while in school. Not only that, he was very knowledgeable about classical music having attended concerts given by some of the greatest composers, conductors & performers of the 20th century. He was very familiar with architecture, construction science & the building trades. He also was a lifelong subscriber to National Geographic magazine. Instead of going to college, he became a plumbing & pipefitter apprentice. You see, it was very difficult to get into college during that era. When he returned from WW 1 in 1919, he went into business for himself & did quite well over the next 55+ years. He was a hell of lot better educated than most college graduates today.

        1. Uphill? Both ways? In three feet of snow?

        2. Yes, he did walk! He graduated from a Catholic school about three blocks north of his home. That after getting up at 5:00 a.m. to deliver the morning newspaper in his neighborhood.

        3. Or in flip flops, if he’s eccentric.

      1. I never did homework and only showed up for tests. I coasted by taking classes beneath my ability.

    3. My view is that public educations primary purpose is to build compliant mediocrity, not educate.
      Mediocrity because we can’t have people too stupid that they are not useful, and cannot be too smart thatd they question authority.

  3. This has to be one of the best article ever published on ROK: solid actionable advice for young men.
    I think a lot of us get a feeling of growing frustration when we see how stacked the deck is against us and the futility of it all – we need more implementable life advice like this.

  4. Student loan debt can indeed, be very crippling and have huge ramifications on what it is a student can go on to do with his life in regards to his future employment prospects as well as other personal life choices that he makes. I recently took the time to research the many educational systems across the world and without a doubt, the US has perhaps the worst system in the world in regards to repayments of student loans and tuition fees.
    Understand, that with the exceptions of top schools or having personal connections, the idea of investing in higher education is a risk that is now, most likely, not going to pay off in the long run. The entire system in the US is a ponzi scheme, where the youth of America is now losing more of his freedom as a result of the noose that is tied around his neck in regards to higher education.
    Indeed the student loan and education system is a giant bubble that is ready to burst at any moment, but is also indicative and reflective of the fact that America is a nation that dug it’s own grave by living a lifestyle on credit and debt. By offshoring and outsourcing essential manufacturing and industrial factories abroad and by resorting towards an economy that is based on consumption and credit, America has essentially created a debt that will never be able to be paid off in the long run.
    It is insane to think that an average 18 year old, can be given the right to access loans that will never be repaid off as well as charged interest rates that will skyrocket and leave him as indentured servant. The fact is that today’s youth are not taught about interest rates, budgeting and other financial matters as a result of the recklessness of the schooling system and bad parenting. A society that feeds on laziness, consumption, materialism and pure ignorance, has resulted in the epidemic of students being enslaved to a financial debt monster. This is the price you ultimately pay if as a student, you chose to spend your time not researching careers that are realistically achieveable and with degrees that have a strong corrolation with whatever is available in the labor market.
    Instead of building one’s personal credentials and extra curricular activities tied outside the college system such as personal projects, financial portfolios, investments and other forms of internships and work experience which is valued in the eyes of most recruiters, you now have generations of asinine morons who wasted their time buying into the fratboy and jock culture of heavy drinking and partying, just to “experience” the college life. Well, part of that college life that will follow you is the endless phone calls and letters from the debt collection agency. That is known as adulthood and if you have the maturity and responsibility to pay your debts off.
    But make no mistake, even those who were responsible about what to study and making the right choices in life, the absymal and depressing job market will effect them as well. The very limited number of job openings as well as insane competition (eg) 10,000 applicants for one position) in conjunction with HR politics and the disasterous trade agreements which continues to eliminate good paying jobs, will leave even those with the right mindset, to struggle with whatever it is he is going to do with this life.
    So make no mistake, that student loans and the fragile economy will leave you to find yourself in a dark tunnel. But even in times like these, there is sometimes a light at the end of that tunnel, but will require you to find yourself, reinvent yourself and to become more mature by also learning from the mistakes of traditional and conventional wisdom. Life is indeed, full of problems, but that does not mean you should spend the rest of it in misery. We are living in a different world from what was before, but the very fundamental concepts are the same- you are born, you live, you die. End of story.
    So make the most of it.

    1. “But make no mistake, even those who were responsible about what to study and making the right choices in life, the absymal and depressing job market will effect them as well. The very limited number of job openings as well as insane competition (eg) 10,000 applicants for one position) in conjunction with HR politics and the disasterous trade agreements which continues to eliminate good paying jobs, will leave even those with the right mindset, to struggle with whatever it is he is going to do with this life.”
      Absolutely. In fact, I brought up the same issue to Roosh in his recent Q&A:

    2. People will simply stop following the rules. Then, the house of cards crumbles. We are already seeing the first stirrings.

  5. There is an entire academic industrial complex: tuition is driven up by demand and there is an ever-growing demand for an American university education as the middle class of China grows larger and larger (at the same time the American middle class is crushed out of existence), housing (luxurious apartments) complexes, dining halls featuring food courts etc. There is a LOT of money to be made from the academic bubble.

    1. The bubble will explode at some point and a lot of colleges will go under. Many schools today are massive bureaucracies, those schools which choose to add more unnecessary majors, nickle & dime every student, provide every convenience imaginable from luxury dorms, luxury dinning, and luxury classrooms will be the first to go. Colleges that cannot get students into real careers upon graduation will be gone soon too. It is getting easier to compare colleges and what they produce. Match that with the high cost of education and the inability to pay back loans I see a collapse coming.

      1. Completely agree. There is no way the current system can sustain itself for much longer. I think half of college campuses will look like ghost towns in the next 10-20 years. Then all those academics who went from elementary school to PhD will have to learn about the real world the hard way. On the bright side, this will force all those SJWs to reexamine themselves. Oh, who am I kidding? They’ll just bitch and whine and force those who actually work and produce something to pay for them.

  6. From personal experience I can say getting a four year degree was the worst decision of my life. Fourtunatley I was privy to the GI bill and dos not end up with my debt. But I’ve always felt like a wasted my best years pursuing what amounts to a participation certificate. I was so disgusted at how easy it was to get a degree I didn’t even go to my graduation. Shortly thereafter I got a job a bought a house. However I’ve actually just rented my house out, and am now looking to downgrade my living. I mean what do I need a house for anyways if I’m not going to raise a family in it?

    1. Exactly.
      Home “ownership” is the other big lie foisted off on Gen X and Millennials right alongside “go to college.”

      1. Yeah I don’t know why anyone would want that albatross around their neck – you make a bad purchase or the govt decides your neighborhood doesn’t have the right demographics and sets up some section 8 housing deals in your neighborhood, your house becomes a money pit.

      2. Not everyone was meant for college or home ownership, and that is ok. Lowering loan and admiitance standards to allow people to borrow money that they will most likely never be able to pay back (without getting financially raped in the process) isn’t.

      3. Home ownership is working out fine for me, actually. I wouldn’t be able to exist in an apartment surrounded by 100 yahoos on every side of me.
        We of course make extra payments on the principle, don’t take out loans against the home’s equity, and approach it as a place to live and not an “investment”. If I didn’t have assets providing more return for me than the interest I’m paying on the small remainder of my home loan I could pay it off today and never look back.
        Next up is selling it and either moving to Wyoming on a small ranch, or moving out to our tillable acreage out in the middle of Nowhere, Ohio. Either way, the home will be purchased for cash.
        Beats the living shit out of apartment living.

        1. Renting is not synonymous with living in an apartment of course.
          The main thing is that you can exit your property with a minimum of fuss and money.

        2. I understand that, but most people who rent, do so with apartments.
          You can exit your home easily in a good market, but of course there are no guarantees with that.
          I happen to like having the ability to do whatever I wish to my home and my property and being the one who can say “Get the fuck off of my lawn!”

        3. I think that depends on the location. Most people who buy in cities, buy condos (apartments).
          “Easy” is a relative term. I can exit my rented accommodation in a day. Exiting a mortgage is considerably more complicated.
          Btw, even in rented accommodation, you still have the right to say “fuck off”.:-)

        4. I could probably sell my home in 2 weeks, based on the market around this area and how fast houses are snatched after being put on the market. I do recognize that this is an atypical scenario however.
          I’d rather own than count on the good graces of a landlord, end of the day.

        5. I’m going to have to agree with Bob here. Homeownership is so overrated. Especially since we never really own anything.
          But it seems more and more people are finally figuring this out, thank goodness.
          No point in buying a home in my area at 600k+ when they are only worth 350k. Housing market still sucks.

        6. But would you make a profit?
          Our landlord is amazing. He never bothers us and we take care and improve his property. Win/win.
          I wouldn’t mind owning land, but a house? Who cares? I’ve never understood it.

        7. We’re probably going to convert a barn built in 1860, which still has a solid frame (but a suck ass exterior) into a home, cash money, and be done. It’s not only not “overrated”, I can think of no better ways to spend my days than growing hops on the remaining acreage and living without a care or house payment in the middle of nowhere, Flyovercountry. Overrated? Hardly at all.
          Living in a suburb, now that is overrated.

        8. My house has doubled in value since I purchased it (based on the most recent estimate, which came in just a few weeks ago) and we made it a point to pay so much against principle over the years that we won’t see that profit eaten up by previous interest payments. Other than the fact that I’m a selfish sonofabitch who likes the rate of return on certain investments more than the idea of paying it off, it would be paid off already without even flinching and I’d come out way ahead once the bottom line was figured.

        9. This weekend I’m going to start compiling numbers and doing cost/return calculations on getting the hop farm started. We’re already talking to a nice gentleman about converting the old barn to a home, using mostly the source material already on hand on the property. Looks to be good fun.
          A 40 acre hop farm, when I did the numbers last (admittedly, that was around 2010) brings in a pretty lucrative income. And they are easy to grow, I have hop bines all over my yard now and you can’t kill them with a blowtorch.
          My dreams of Wyoming may remain just that, a dream. But the alternative is pretty damned nice too.

        10. Sure, maybe if you can pay cash outright.
          But even tho my husband does ok, we don’t do 600k in cash for a house ok. Lol
          I love my area. Within an hour I can be either in the mountains, DC or the beach!
          And I actually kinda live in bum fuck Virginia. I mean, there are farm animals a mile away from my neighborhood….at least that’s pretty bum fuck when you grow up 5 miles outside of the Nations capital.

        11. Where you live is too expensive to reasonably be able to make home owning plans without figuring in that you’ll be slaves to the mortgage for the rest of your life.
          In the middle of Nowhere, Ohio we don’t have to make those assumptions. I can buy a livable (though not the nicest) house for under $30k if I was so motivated.

        12. I only need about 2-5 ounces, dried, to make a five gallon batch, depending on the type of beer I’m making.
          When talking about 40 acres of hops, and the amount of bines you can grow per acre, I believe the last calculation I ran 6 years ago at the then current price of hops per ounce per type that I was going to grow netted me somewhere around $500k-ish, although I haven’t looked at those spreasheets in years so don’t take that as a rock solid prediction. Production costs plummet after the first few years after you’ve erected all of the required trellises, as you only need to plant it once and it will keep coming back for nearly a century or longer. Basically your job after all of the rhizomes are planted are:
          1. Mowing down April growth to spur stimulated growth later
          2. Trellis maintenance/wiring
          3. Winding the binds to the trellis at the appropriate time
          4. Drink beer
          5. Tend to the sheep that you have wandering the acreage keeping the grass neatly “mowed” for you naturally.
          6. Harvest (a bit of a job, that)
          7. Oasthouse and then bailing
          8. Selling on market
          Which actually isn’t as much work as you’d think on most items, although some of it will require a bit of elbow grease. I don’t mind that though.
          I’ve also considered splitting the acreage into “hops over here, 2 and 6 row barley over there”, buying a small industrial type grain roaster, and going into my own craft beer business. “All ingredients home grown on one farm in Ohio! Be the most Ironic man on your block! Enjoy GhostOfJefferson Pale Ale!”

        13. Fuck “owning” and all the paranoia and never ending paperwork and improvements and touchups. Been there, done that.

        14. Yeah, condos, or somebody else’s house. End of the day, they basically have the same issues, outside of that a rented house at least puts some air between you and neighbors.

        15. Be sure to hire mexicans or equivalent for harvest. Over time people develop really bad sensitivities to inhaling all those lupulins and such on hops farms

        16. Duplex has the apartment problem (neighbors behind a wall), and you won’t catch me living in a double wide, thank you very much. I can buy a real house on real land in Ohio very cheaply, cheaper than I can for a high end Camry sometimes (depends on the day), fuck living in a trailer.

        17. We’re at an impasse and are figuring out which remote “nobody around place” we’re going to choose. That farm land acreage is really calling to me here in Ohio now that my daughter is about to graduate high school this coming year. But Wyoming….man….

        18. I’m really on the fence. If we sell the acreage I suspect it could buy a right pretty piece of land out West. Hm…..

        19. Fuck you. Why not hire one of your victimized white males? Your kind seem to be really hurting for work these days.

        20. 1. It’s amusing that you think me white.
          2. “or equivalent” the point being you want disposable people picking hops not onesownseff, ya unnerstan’

        21. Sure, but then you’re living in Ohio.
          Part bust town, part Somalia, all under the administration of John Kasich, a man as unstable (and leftist) as Joe Biden but without the brain aneurisms to explain it.

        22. Dunno about Wyoming, it sounds solid on paper but the recent primary cycle established that the state is another one of those surprisingly-left “red” states.
          Dunno about anything that touches Utah.

        23. Last bit: Aren’t we supposed to give beer a wide berth as hops are loaded with synthetic estrogen, the “original soy”?

        24. That would be atypical, leaving aside property taxes, and the legal hassle. I understand what you mean about a landlord but the nice thing about landlords is that if its not working out you can easily change landlords. And of course even if you do own, the bank will be the de facto landlord as will the government.
          Also the other advantage with having a landlord is that any problems with the property are his problems to fix, which is nice. There are trade offs of course with any decision.

        25. If that’s the case, then someone like yourself should go pick those hops. I can speak and write English just fine. I don’t see what that last remark was supposed to mean. What a stunad.

        26. Lot to be said for the suburbs IMO – very close to everything including the farms, the city, etc. Now to me an idea of a good size city is 250-750k people. I couldn’t stand being in the burbs of NYC or LA, for example.
          I agree in general on owning a home IF you want to stay put or don’t mind becoming a landlord quickly. For a young single guy, one of the most valuable things they have to move up the corporate ladder is mobility. Given that the cost to purchase and sell a home will be 8-10% of the purchase price, unless you plan on owning the home for at least 5 years, most young men that aren’t married are much better off renting (of any type). Personally, I’ve just converted every home I’ve bought to rentals when I moved out.

      4. Home ownership is the new servage. The home belongs to the bank or the state, not you. You just pay them each month to keep it.

      5. Preach! I never wanted a house and the math just didn’t add up. Over a 30 year mortgage, you pay back double the purchase price. Yet, my mom would hold up one of my peers as a shining example of success for doing nothing more than buying a house. Meanwhile, I had friends telling me it was the best investment I could possibly make. 🙄

        1. I saw my father bounded, like a slave, to the house. He wanted a divorce, he wanted to leave, but he had worked SO HARD for it, he was reticent to do so, even when I, as a 8 yo kid, could understand the best choice was to get rid of the wife. (Yes, my mother).
          Without a home, he would have been free/debt free.

      6. I’m not sure I agree. When you own, you build equity and long term wealth. When you rent, you throw money away monthly.

        1. Yes, assuming you don’t take a 30 year mortgage and you pay down on what you have fast.
          Slog it out for 30 years though and whatever value your house has gained is more than overtaken by the amount of interest you paid up to that point.

    2. What did you major in?
      Getting a degree is currently scam Number 1.
      Scam Number 2 is buying a house.
      Between the two, you are essentially a slave since the combination of the two will keep you locked to a location, paying the government taxes and its cronies interest for pretty much most of your life.
      Scam Number 3 is getting an IRA or 401(K). Now they have you for your entire life.

      1. I got a degree in Concrete industry Management. Which is through the engineering school, but I wouldn’t call it an engineering degree.
        I wouldn’t say home ownership is a scam per se if you can rent your house out for more than your mortgage your doing all right. Also there’s really nowhere you can live for free anyways.

        1. Financially, if the excess rent is greater than the costs of maintenance, dilapidation, taxes and interest then yes you may do OK. But for me, its the liquidity issues and being locked to a location (where the government can easily get your wealth) that I have a problem with.

        2. Not to mention all the utilities you have to pay for. My sewer bill is over 60 a month. Now that’s some expensive shit.

        1. It depends on the IRA (Roth or otherwise). I’ll be honest and tell you that I can’t remember the details but I would stay away from anything that the government has its fingers in. Leaving aside all of the penalties (and I have paid penalties putting money into mine!) the government can change the rules any time (with respect to taxation etc.). You can’t trust an organization that is perennially in debt and perennially stealing peoples money.

    3. I got my undergrad as an adult (nights/weekends/online to complete while working 50+ hrs/wk) and couldn’t believe how easy it was. Ended up with a 4.0 GPA with a BS Economics. Did very little for me. My MBA from a T10 program, however, has paid off quite handsomely – both from business intellect and from income (roughly a 5x increase income over the last 5-6 years)

  7. I can’t find any evidence for a cap on forgiven loans in the IBR program at $59,000. I do see that qualifying for IBR requires an income below $59,000. Perhaps that is what is referred to?

  8. There used to be a chain one followed for a successful life: education –> career –> family.
    One pursued higher education to secure a higher-paying career, which in turn led to a family with several children.
    This chain has been broken: higher education is no longer a guarantee of a lucrative career.
    Additionally, there is actually a negative correlation between a person’s income and the number of offspring he will have.
    We all know the super-educated couple with enough letters after their names to spell out the alphabet who have decided to remain childless or were unable to conceive because their sperm / eggs are defective having given their fertile years in pursuit of their degrees and careers. Very wealthy couples often only have 1 child. It is the poor (of all races) who have the highest birthrates.
    You have a better chance of meeting a woman who wants to have children before she is 25 working stocking shelves at Walmart than at university.

    1. You have a better chance of meeting Bigfoot than a white girl under 30 who wants kids.

      1. I would say they exist but they are what people like to call “white trash.” Definitely not at university.

        1. And even then, it “just happens”, they don’t really want kids. At least that’s the way it seems given how I hear them talk (yell?) to their kids. You can always tell a white trash chick: fat, angry, hostile, voice like 10 grit sand paper, and always yelling at her kids and the Eminem-emulating loser stuck in the orbit of her immense waistline. I grew up White trash, I know my people.

    2. True in almost all cases (I do know a couple of exceptions). But, why should a man want an “educated woman.” I am lucky with my wife that she is educated and tolerable. The majority of her friends though, I would rather stick my dick in a blender than be stuck listening to them. Rich men often marry dumb hot women who are good for breeding and homemaking. It has long been that way. The only reason it is different now is because we have bought into a myth, created by feminists, that the educated career-oriented woman is superior.

      1. Tell a modern woman that you’d rather have a woman who is happy, pleasant, hygienic, feminine yet not terribly bright around, instead of some over-educated modern “career woman” and watch her head explode in rage. It’s great fun.

    3. A friend of mine, who is about ten years older than me, has a 28 year old daughter who is married to some noodle armed hipster type. She has told him, point blank, that he’s never having grandchildren because, and I quote “Ewwww, yuck, the thought of some living thing growing inside of me just grosses me out! How disgusting!”
      Yep, that’s our future, gents. Marry up those girls, fast!

      1. Look at the silver lining. Women like that should not breed and odds are she will be divorcing McHipster anyway in the near future.
        Comare and contrast to other women:
        From a russian woman I know: “A real woman has a husband and children. Without a family she is nothing.”
        One is not like the other. Can you spot the future cat herder?

  9. My dad never went to college so it was real important that I go. So I graduate, I call him up long distance and I say “Dad, now what?” He says “get a job” Now I’m 25, make my yearly call again. I say Dad, “now what?” He says, “I don’t know, get married” But I can’t get married, I’m a 30 year old boy. We’re a generation of men raised by women. I’m wondering if another woman is really the answer we need
    If ever there was a brilliant line in a fucking movie that would be it boys.

    1. If you don’t have a woman who will clean your house, make your sammiches and suck your dick?

    2. Classic movie as it should be mandatory to young boys. Funny how that movie was a premonition of how masculinity was already under attack in the late 90s, and how men were already suffering from this ultra feminized and materialistic society.

      1. When “Friends” rolled out I think a lot of us figured out that the jig was up.

        1. “Friends”…Jesus i hated that show, second only to “Sex and the City”. The 90s did have some horrific shit. lol

      2. yes, Chuck Palahniuk, whether intentionally or accidentally, really stumbled onto the American zeitgeist and, miraculously, when they made the movie they didn’t fuck it up.

        1. Interesting that some of the most well-known manosphere thinkers are homos.
          Chuck Palahniuk, Milo Yianopolois, & Jack Donovan for example have all put out deeply insightful work.

        2. I didn’t know chuck was a homo. For what it is worth, I read his other books and was decidedly unimpressed by all buy about 4. I only know Milo from people talking about him on this site and have no idea who Donovan is.
          There is, to my thinking, a difference between being a faggot and making your life about being a faggot however. In the former they may have an identity outside of their sexuality and that identity may be interesting or intelligent despite deviant homo behavior. In the later, their entire being is defined by their deviance and their thoughts will just be fruit from a poisoned tree.

        3. I’ve dealt with both types.
          Some take on the character of being a faggot and are attention whores, while others are easy enough to get along with and prefer having sexual relationships with men.
          But with these gay intellectual social critics I think it’s interesting how well they articulate the struggles of average modern men. It’s like they have a view of gender relations and social issues that straight guys are too busy dealing with to really see objectively or something.
          Donovan’s biggest contribution is in making the distinction between being a good man, and being good at being a man. He believes the core virtues that men use to measure each other are strength, skill, courage, and honour. Whether you’re a nice person or not is secondary to these more basic virtues. I’ve actually found this to be useful when interpreting social relationships in different contexts. If you can earn respect by demonstrating these traits you can break the rules a little bit.

        4. Right, that’s what really shocked me. He’s this muscled, tatted-up masculine looking dude who talks about violence and tribe building….and he’s gay. He really breaks the mold of what people expect when you think about how a gay guy looks and behaves.

        5. Who would guess that this guy likes dick up his ass?

          Dude is clearly a power bottom.

        6. It’s terrible how looking through today’s lenses, everything looks faggy.
          Take bands of warriors like Arthur of Camelot, Roman legionnaires… They could all be easily turned to being pillow biters.

        7. Well I meant when it came out.
          I have no problem with homosexuality. But the movie had a ton of homosexual undertones.

        8. Men, right here is that ish many have talked anout:
          Women trying to make any kind of male bonding a “gay thing”

          I told everyone this bish is no bueno.

          Go away bitch

        9. I wasn’t even the first one to say that…the guys did.
          And I also never said that “male bonding” was why it was homo erotic . I never said anything like that at all.

        10. I have read his book, The way of Men. Easy read, from the book you can deduct he is gay, admits it in not so many words.
          The message though is quite RED PIL clear, men do not need woman and a man should not seek a woman’s approval for anything, treat them like the petulant children they are.
          The question is, do you want to live in a Bonobo or Chimpanzee society ? If you choose the latter you have to become a modern barbarian and defy the system in every which way possible, you are a man don’t ask take it, claim it as yours. Even Malcolm X is quoted along these lines.
          And then if you just want to be a good man, stay with your blue pill and the agenda that goes with it, if you want to be good at being a man the Red Pil it all the way…

        11. it seems more fascist male-bonding/male brotherhood (a white nationalist website wrote n article on that. “fight club mannerbund” shound make it come up in google

        12. If that’s how you define nice then yeah.
          Nice is a broader term. Being nice can refer to being conscientious, thoughtful of others’ feelings, being pleasant to be around, etc.
          These exemplary aspects of being “nice” are at the end of the day less important than knowing who’s gonna have your back whether you were truly in the right or not. Or who’s gonna save your life when they are offered a million dollars to let you die. Loyalty is more important than being enjoyable to be around when life and death are on the line.
          Beyond this distinction it’s just semantics.

        1. The guy was a natural omega. Confused, he sought solace in the internet (his parents weren’t particularly supporting so he didn’t go to them) and found LGBTQ and -so long as he spouts the party lines- access to sexual release other than the autosexual.
          Poor guy.

    3. One can make all sorts of explosives from common household products…….if one were so inclined.

    4. In project mayhem we have a name, HIS name is Robert Paulson….

  10. Additionally, university is not a place to meet a family-oriented woman. University-educated women will squander their best years developing their careers and cultivating experiences (code for foreign dick).
    By the time, Miss Female Studies is ready to settle down, she’ll begrudgingly push out one autistic / retarded mentally stillborn child. Congrats: the culmination of all your hard work and dedication as a man is a used up post wall woman and an aspie child.
    You would have healthier, more intelligent children if you started a family with an 18 year old girl working at Walmart (so called “white trash”) than with a 36 year old woman with a JD.

  11. This isn’t really a viable plan. Unless you got hit by a truck and had no insurance and am completely disabled there is little chance you can ever discharge any of your student loan debt.
    Sure, you can try to rig the system and under report your income for two decades but then you just spent 20 years of the prime of your life doing just that. And that is just plain dumb.
    If you were stupid enough to sign up for 100,000+ in student loans when you were 18 then just live a minimalist lifestyle and pay them off aggressively. Live in a room in a house in that not nice section of town. Use public transit and eat cheap food. If you can wrangle a decent job and smash down your expenses then you can get out of debt in 5-7 years. The government has made student loan debt so secure there is virtually no other way.

    1. You are equating money with happiness, the mistake of many modern atheistic Westerners. This plan is derived directly from the Federal student loan web site.

      1. There is nothing on that website that says “under report your income”. That is illegal. Sure it might be a common practice in some industries, but it is still illegal. It is not that I care about doing some against the law (our elites just make the law say what they want for loopholes so just not following the law is the same thing). It is that breaking the law is stupid and can get you in real trouble. Odds are you won’t get audited but if you do welcome to real federal prison.
        If you have student loan debt the best tactic is to pay it off as aggressively as your income will allow. Keep your expenses low and huddle down for the 5-7 years it will take. Yes it will suck, but once you are out of debt you will be more free then a lot of older 20 somethings.

        1. You’re exaggerating a quip I made. You act like one of those Morpheus warns about that will do anything to defend the system. What’s it any of the government’s business what your income is especially if you make it in another country? Before 1913, it wasn’t the government’s business. You do know Eritrea is the only other nation in the world to tax income earned abroad?
          Nah, not sacrificing the best years of my life to pay back a matriarchal government that wastes more money in 1 second than the value of that student loan. Just watch the national debt clock tick by and you’ll get it as 70% of the federal government is now a wealth redistribution agent taking money from college grad slaves and giving it to deadbeats and carousel riding single moms.

        2. If you want to abscond the law by all means please try to do so. I just would not tell anyone to knowingly do so.
          We live in an era where your best strategy in life as a man is to “hide in plain sight”. I don’t think men have any duty or country, etc. in this day and age, but I would also caution someone from attracting undue attention to their actions.

        3. Slavery was legal. The Holocaust was legal. Segregation was legal. Legality does not equal morality. And again, that was a quip in parentheses, which means one can take it seriously or not. The rest of the plan is totally legal. It seems to me you hold the government in high regard, rather than looking at it as the soft tyranny it has become.

        4. And did you miss the part where I said I am fine with you not following the law? I would just not advise someone to do so in this circumstance as the risk outweighs the benefits.

  12. But wait isn’t America a “Christian country?” Why does it practice usury? Hmmm …

    1. I am pretty sure that that is just cognitive dissonance. I don’t think Christians, for the most part, have taken anti usury laws seriously in at least 100 years and probably a lot more than that.

  13. I was lucky (or maybe not so) in that I did not pay much for college. I had a lot of undergrad scholarship money…paid some, but nothing that took too long to pay off, and for graduate school between fellowships, TA assignments and work study I didn’t pay a dime. That said, after all my education I wound up hating my job. When I jumped ship it was from philosophy professor to ops director for a real estate development company.
    All in all I find that the teamsters and the other trade locals are, in general, much less crooked than the academics. It all sucks, but at least there is a shred of honesty in my current profession and the money is better.
    I met a guy one day. I was having a drink and started chatting. Nice enough guy. We were asking each other what we do. Cute bartender listening in. He tells me, I tell him. He asks me “do you like your job” and I say “of course not. That’s fucking insane. THey have to give me money just for me to show up”
    So he asks me, “what would you rather be doing.”
    I sat and thought about that question. I finished my whisky, smiled and said “I would rather be on a Caribbean island, laying in the sun, in a hammock, drinking rum out of a coconut getting a blow job from sisters”
    Totally incredulous the guy looked at me. I said “but, I don’t think they are hiring for that and at least I know the way to my current office”
    Bartender bought me a drink.

    1. As a former philosophy professor, would you accept the definition of philosophy as “learning how to die” ?

      1. I guess it depends on who does the defining. Not me though. Socrates was fun and all, but I think he was too narrow. Life is learning to die.
        Philosophy can be a lot of different things I feel depending on how it is tackled. I specialized in a field called Hermeneutics and specifically concentrated on Pre-Socratic, Neo-Platonic and Classical Modern (especially Kant). My field was focused on interpretation.
        So if you ask me, philosophy OUGHT to be learning how to interpret. However, what it has become is “learning how to work at starbucks and bang chicks that don’t wax their cunts”

        1. It seems people were able to observe, think deeply, and actually use logic more 2500 years ago in small city states than today.
          Take a look at this depiction of Eratosthenes.
          He calculated the diameter of the Earth using observations of shadow lengths.
          What is his cranial capacity? I mean look at that vaulted ceiling of a cranium. He must have had what? 50% greater cranial volume than the average person today? He doesn’t even look look like a fucking human.
          And yet we’re all told by the optimists we’re getting smarter, the singularity is right around the bend, we’re living in an intellectual golden age, the amount of knowledge doubles every year, on and on. Looking at the raw material walking around, I’m skeptical.

        2. It is hard to say, smarter, not so smart. Thales predicted a freaking eclipse just by laying on the beach. I mean, I can barely look at two women at the same time without getting dizzy. The idea of observing celestial bodies with enough accuracy that you can predict an eclipse is baffling.
          That said, I will mention a few things. First, the city states, more than likely, had their share of fucking morons. The thing is, idiots don’t make the cut in the eyes of history. Yeah, you hear about Empedocles and Parmenedies. But these were the genusies of the day. You don’t hear about Dumbfuckathes and that time he accidently glued his nuts to his legs.
          Without the internet or even really reliable record keeping in general, we have only the stand outs and as such it is easy to look back and think that there were a ton of brilliant men compared to our idiocy.
          Further, they didn’t have as many distractions.
          I am not willing to say yes or no on intelligence then versus intelligence now. Who are we comparing? I mean, are we comparing my idiot cousin Fred to Anaximander? Or are we comparing Stephen Hawking to Parmenides?

        3. I remember my differential equations professor in college tendered that explanation as to why we don’t see such prodigies (mathematical, musical, literary, or otherwise) today as we did thousands or hundreds of years ago (Newton, Gauss, etc) – that there are too many modern day titillations and distractions. Too many hedonistic pleasures.
          Even if the majority of city state residents were toward the meaty part of the IQ bell curve, it seemed those city states generated a disproportionate number of geniuses considering their population at any time was what? 10,000?
          We don’t seem to be generating a comparable number of true geniuses even given populations thousands of times larger…
          Also, considering the crudeness of technological assists and tools they had at their disposal (compared with the endless mental assists we have today), the ancients pulled off amazing feats. I mean, just imagine calculating the size of the earth from some measurements and using trig and geometry – and no calculator!

        4. Dumbfuckathes
          Oh hell yes! There needs to be an epic saga sung about this, well, unsung hero!

        5. Distractions are def part of it. As for hedonistic pleasures, tough to say. I mean, the greeks weren’t exactly known for their austerity.
          I do agree that having to do calculations by hand and not having computers lead to more mental exercise which lead to stronger minds. I mean, if you take two people with the same raw talent and put one in the gym every day and put one in mcdonalds the other day then you will have two very different specimens. Likewise, back in the 80’s I could have rattled off 100 phone numbers or more, no problem right off the top of my head. Now, maybe 5….maybe. I am sure that if I was in a world like Kant lived in it would be even more intense and if it was Plato’s Athens more so yet. That doesn’t necessarily mean that they had more innate ability. Of course, it also doesn’t mean they don’t. I really can’t tell.
          I do stand by the claim that what we know of the greeks is, for the most part, from Diogenes laertius’ Lives of Eminent Philosophers (I have an entire loeb collection in greek and English…so awesome) and, like I said, he didn’t write about the morons…just the exceptions.
          In my life I have met quite a few people I would consider truly brilliant. 10 thousand? Maybe not. But remember, the time from Thales of Miletus and the Seven Sages to Plotinus was over 700 years. If we catalogued the last 700 years of honest to goodness brilliant men in one large series of books and then burned the records of everyone else, the modern world wouldn’t look so shabby.

        6. Ah yes, the tales of Dumbfuckathes. Why, he was the first person to invent indoor plumbing. It was just a basket filled with plums that you shit in. It never caught on.

        7. Did they tell him that that idea was plumb crazy?

    2. Part of the reason that the education-industrial complex is so pervasive is that the public has been sold on the idea that they are entitled to love their job. What a crock of shit. I love having money and the lifestyle I want. My job is just the tedious shit I do to make it happen.
      There may be a job out there you would love, but most people probably wouldn’t love the wage it pays because it’s basically nothing. But college has sold folks on following their dreams…right into that pit of unemployability.

      1. What a crock of shit. I love having money and the lifestyle I want. My job is just the tedious shit I do to make it happen.
        Believe it or not, my daughter came to that same conclusion recently. She works very good and does a great job, very responsible especially for a Millenial, but she really doesn’t like what she does. She said she does it because she DOES like the pay check and if that’s what it takes to get one, she’ll do it.
        Strange to hear from a teenager these days.

        1. Well, based on you post history and your discussions of your children, she sounds like she was raised in reality, and as a result is well equipped to function in reality. Amazing how that works. For my part, this is what I’m working on with my young kids.

        2. I guess I was just a bit surprised at how frank she was about it. Recalling when I was her age and working, the jobs then ALL sucked universally so I know that she’s right to not praise it up as something great.

        3. You know, jobs do suck, but when I think back, the happiest jobs I have ever had were minimum wage jobs in restaurants. Lots of fun. Lots of chicks. And as my expectations for my lifestyle were minimum, the money was enough. Did it suck washing dishes and cleaning grease traps? Yes. But it was also a lot of fun to go drinking with my co-workers after closing up, and it was very fun to bang the never ending stream of hot waitresses that came and went.

      2. 100% agree. We have been taught we need to do what we love. Instead of understanding that all men must work for their wage, great or small. I am not saying be a professional at getting kicked in the stones, but If I woke up excited to go to work every day they wouldn’t need to pay me near as much.
        I am sure there are some examples…hedge fund manager who is doing edge of his seat moves and is excited, bev hills tit job guy who does a few tits a week and drives his other porche to the beach on different days.
        However, in the end you realize it is a trade off. How much of myself am I willing to sell for how much money. The idea that we are all supposed to be just fucking thrilled every day is a lie.
        The other part of the equation on the grasp of the education-industrial complex is that we are sold that a college degree is necessary. 30-50 years ago it was not a requirement. But if you got one it was something your family would celebrate. It would mean you have put in x amount of real work and your life would be substantially different.
        Now it is just day care for millennials for the most part. But there is a part of the American psyche that is sold on college degree = good no college degree = bad and in order to meet the demand we have been giving insane loans so everyone can “afford” and stocking hundreds, thousands of colleges and universities with sub par faculty and no standards.
        I remember while teaching one of my first intro classes I was basically told “whoever does best in the class gets an A. Grade on a curve from there.” You would have had to. These morons who got through high school were too stupid to pass an intro class with any objective standards period and even the handful that weren’t too dumb were either too lazy or, in the best case scenario, had the motivation and smarts but were totally let down by their secondary education so they didn’t have the tools. Everything needed to be dumbed down.
        Some of those kids are teachers themselves now.
        And the beat goes on.

      3. “Loving your job” is a classic Marxist myth. In other words, they tell you that even only we had a Communist Paradise, you would escape the drudgery of having a job and would instead be happily working away, with blissful smile on your face… just like they do in North Korea.

        1. Ahhh… North Korea. The communist paradise where you can have a job cutting grass with scissors (no shit, look it up).

      4. I loved my job in college working at a Pottery Barn, lifting boxes, and flirting with rich MILFs all day.

    3. Office Space covers that territory magnificently actually.

      1. At least 2 people a month tell me I need to see this movie.

        1. You should, because it covers this territory, which you yourself have waxed poetic about all over this thread, quite magnificently. Very funny too.

        2. you havent seen that or Idiocracy? Big Lebowski? Grandma’s Boy? You need to go to that video store and check them out

        3. I have them all too. I pretty much have downloaded all the movies in the world. God love me some bit torrent.

        4. Your posts are strongly vaginal. Some men are intimidated by that word…”vagina”…

    4. Ah ha. You are a leftoid. Why You want your sisters to blow you? Das groce.

        1. Yeah it is! but hey, why not. I can always dispose of them and have them replaced. This is my fantasy bucko!

  14. But isn’t being a trades-man repulsive to girls? And minimalism is even worse. They’re all gold diggers, unless you’re a handsome thug with top notch game or something. I actually wish to become a helicopter pilot or operator but the barrier of entry is too high.

        1. last time I checked, there arent shoe stores in the middle of a pumpkin patch. This bums women out. Commuting to your city must be heaven, I just read subway ridership here is up 22% since 1996 (and you can see and smell it too)

        2. But doesn’t your wife get allergic smelling hay? Isn’t New York where she’d rather stay? And I was under the impression that she adored that penthouse view?

        3. Oh how I’d love to own a huge ranch and spray my crops with my own helicopter but good luck having 9s or 10s move there…

    1. If I have learned anything from a life of womanizing it is that nothing is truly repulsive to women other than insecurity.

  15. This is all diminishing returns: barring a few outliers like Zuckerberg, we all will end up making about the same amount of money and have more or less the same quality of life.
    You graduate from high school and get a job stocking shelves or something and you make your $25,000 a year.
    Or you get your BS, MS, PhD, spend a decade or more in higher education and make your $100k a year of which half is confiscated as taxes.
    So for pissing away a decade or more of your life and studying and working so hard, you eke out a factor of 2 increase in income potential if you’re lucky?

  16. Kids get pushed into college to stagger entry into the workforce. In nyc, you can stay in HS until age 19. So, if you are born in the second half of any year, thats 5 yrs until they give you the boot. Next up: Community college. 3 years to get an associate’s degree for most. Now youre 22, working at Panera Bread for $10/hr, not sure if youre gonna get a BA, and no closer to getting married because you are pretty much a bum. Its tragic

    1. It goes all the way to the top: there are numerous institutions like the Janelia Farms Research Campus that act as “spillover tanks” or “holding pens” for post-docs vying for that coveted professor position.

  17. Great piece.
    I tell every youngster I know that unless you’re STEM, doctor, or lawyer, avoid college. The only thing it is good for is social networking, and you can do that on your own without going into debt (or in my case, wasting a lot of my parents’ money).
    Minimalism is also sound advice. I lucked into a profitable small business and am doing pretty well financially these days, but prior to that in my early 30s I did exactly what this article describes: became fed up with the Office Space nightmare and quit in favor of a manual labor job that paid half as much. And those were some of the happiest days of my life.

    1. Strike lawyer from that list, too many law schools, too few jobs for lawyers.
      Most other industries look down on you if you try to jump ship (they perceive you to be a failed lawyer).

        1. Plenty of coin to be made dealing arms or drugs. Profit sharing too

        2. Kickstarter campaign fraud: aquaculture raised jelly fish. You heard of prevagen? That drug for enhancing your memory? It’s derived from jellyfish. Well, what’s better than that you ask? Organic aquaculture raised jellyfish. They wriggle a bit as they go down but the after taste is smooth. You jelly brah?

        3. you smoked that entire J since your last post a few minutes ago?

        4. Strike finance too. Everyone seems to major in that these days, and the lower level jobs are being taken by H1Bs from India and China

        5. Pilot friend of mine got laid off a couple of years ago and he became a real estate agent for about a year until he found another flying job. He had no background in it at all, just did a bit of studying and took the license test.
          He’s a natural bullshitter and very charismatic, so I’m sure that has a lot to do with it, but I wouldn’t advise anyone to go to school for real estate.

        6. On my last vacation I met a guy down in the Caribbean. Cool guy. Was at a bar having a beer in the afternoon and I was chatting with him. He had lived there (French St. Martin) for the last 20 years or so.
          Turns out, he was from some land locked state, forget which, and when he turned 18 he joined the Navy. Did his 2 years or whatever. Picked up a little French and some knowhow about boats and saved a little coin.
          He then was discharged, took his stuff and at 21 years old went down to saint martin, went to the docks with his basic knowledge of French and his knowledge of boats and got a job on some boat taking tourists around.
          Anyway, he told me the whole story, but the punch out is…it is 20 years later, he works for a guy who owns several such boats and he captains one with a 3 man crew under him. During season he takes tourists out fishing or tubing or scuba whatever. They are always in a good mood. Then when season is over he hangs out around the island with other locals and has a blast. Once a year he goes and visits his family. Doesn’t cost anything to fly because of the military.
          And I am sitting there thinking to myself….dafuq was my guidance counselor thinking. They never gave me this option. They didn’t tell me about this one. I was strong in humanities and they told me professor, lawyer, etc etc etc no one bothered saying “hey, how about driving a fucking boat around with a bunch of drunk tourists”

        7. “..was my guidance counselor thinking.”
          You presume they think? That’s why they are guidance counselors. I spent 30 seconds with mine my senior year. “My plans after HS? I joined the army last week.” He wished me luck and showed me the door.

        8. I did get a little luck in terms of college scholarships to schools that my family could have never afforded so the relationship was a little different. And, to be honest, my guidance counselor wasn’t a terrible guy. He helped me a lot with the best information he had at hand.
          However “join the navy and then go live in the Caribbean and drive a boat around for the rest of your life” could have been suggested, at least in passing.

        9. Don’t blame you for taking opportunities and running with them.
          My conselor was ok guy as well, but he had other problems at the time (aka. drunk driving, fleeing the cops and taking a swing at a state trooper). Meh. It was the 80’s.

        10. yeah, mine was 80’s too. lol. I am pretty sure those were mandatory for most places.
          I grew up in, essentially, a ghetto. My highschool, which no longer exists, was the worst high school in nyc. It was one of the most dangerous as well. So when a student started showing academic promise they really bent over backwards to help as best they could.
          In the end, I am pretty sure I was keeping that entire school accredited with my grades pulling up the average and, without a doubt, by the time my counselor was done with edging out every possible playing of the system, stuff I would have never known on my own, I wound up going to college for free to a pretty good school. So I have no real complaints other than the boat thing.

        11. I assumed the system is set to pick up guys with potential and not see it squandered, so it appears it functioned as it should. Thanks for sharing that.

      1. Depends on the school. Depends on the type of law. A crim defense lawyer who goes to the kind of school where you make a lot of good connections can still make dough.
        I think you will see a fortune being made in faggot specific divorce law. Child custody will be tricky what with their 3 Asian kids they adopted. Give it 10 years, and people who specialize only in helps fags divorce will be making quite a bit of money.

        1. Basically only go to law school if:
          1. Top 14 law school (in ranking)
          2. Scholarship or minimal student loan debt.
          3. Family member or friend who will employ you after graduation
          4. You’re pathologically inclined to be a lawyer.
          If even one of these conditions isn’t there, don’t do it. The road to debt slavery hell is paved with the hopes and dreams of penniless law school grads over at

        2. I would add pathology towards surgeon but other than that this list seem exhaustive to me. Agreed.

    2. Only the best lawyers become successful lawyers, there are better options with better chances for financial success without as many failures as the legal field.

  18. If I had it to do all over again, Beverly Hills Plastic Surgeon would be the gob for me.
    I think a big problem is that American kids are asked, when they are young, what they want to be when they grow up instead of the much more relevant question “how do you want to live”
    If you know how you want to live you can reverse engineer a life. If you just think about what you want to do then everyone is a short stop astronaut blow job practice dummy.

        1. Do you know why a chicken coup only has two doors?
          Because if it had four doors it would be a chicken sedan!

        2. This was good, but her sitcom “Stacked” was better. She owned a book store. Stacks of books. Stacked. Get it?

  19. I had to take out some student loans to go to law school (only student loan debt that I have), and got extremely lucky in that I have a debt amount in the low 50s.
    I know two girls from my class with over 300k in debt, in a SHRINKING industry.
    If you’re gonna take out loans, you better damn well have an actual plan to pay it off and be going for an industry where you stand a good chance of getting a job.
    In the case of many of my classmates, their plan was to outstudy one another and if they couldn’t get a job in a private firm, to either go for gov’t service or IBR. That was poor planning on their part.
    Higher education is a ponzi scheme/shell game… and the student loans that finance it are a bubble that will burst in the next decade if I had to guess.

    1. 300k in debt for the honor of working 80-plus hours a week. Deal me fuckin in!

      1. What they don’t tell you is that those are the “prestigious jobs”, which get rid of you after a few years when they find a new law school grad who will work for less.
        That grad now has no job… and not enough “experience” to get a similarly situated job elsewhere.
        Most of my classmates are making 35-50k… IF THEY’RE LUCKY. I know a good 20-30 who are still looking for a job… over a year after graduation.

        1. Yeah, it also applies to associate attorneys in private firms that have less than 5 years of experience.
          One of my co workers at my old job told me that his firm’s unwritten policy was that they’d keep you if you had a trial under your belt. If not, they laid you off.

    2. Yes, I knew a few people who were a quarter million in debt from law school. One girl I dated. She graduated with 6 figure debt and went to work for a non profit doing pro bono work for abused women. I tried to explain to her that people who are nearly a quarter million dollars in debt don’t have the luxury to work in a non profit sector. They need to work in the A LOT OF FUCKING PROFIT sector.
      She stopped listening to me after, and I kid you not this is true, she asked me if I would do a charity run to benefit a woman’s shelter. The starting place for this run, I fucking kid you not, was Battery Park. This happened back in the early 90’s. I only stopped laughing like 3 days ago.

      1. Her plan hinges on staying in public service for 10 years to get that forgiven. If her employer gets their funding cut, she’s fucked.
        Because if she misses EVEN ONE PAYMENT in that 20 years, she can’t get any of it forgiven.
        Not to mention the fact she was probably paid horribly, in a high COL area too.

  20. When I asked American University financial aid office “workers” what their degree was worth on the open market, they looked at me as though I was out of my mind…this is one overrated, expensive, manipulative, Marxist university. If your kid ever wants to look at the school, SAVE YOURSELF and THEM the TROUBLE. Ask my daughter what her degree is worth, not much. At least she didn’t turn into a socialist dirtbag, how she survived as a conservative, I’ll never know.

  21. On the one hand, this article hits the nail on the head when speaking about the scam that is modern higher education in America. The reason so many graduates are underemployed, unemployed, or working for a pittance is that they were sold on the bullshit notion of “following their dreams” instead of learning a marketable skill. Selling useless bullshit is great for the bottom line of the education industry, but not so great for students.
    On the other hand, having said all that, I don’t have a ton of sympathy when the average debt is only $30,000. That’s the price of a new car. I don’t see this as catastrophic. If you get scammed by the education industry, that sucks, but you were happy to take the loans to chase tail and drink beer for four years, and now it’s time to pay them back.
    “Going Galt” may have some allure on paper, but the reality is that unless you are going to resign your citizenship, you are never going to achieve it. Why? Because you are always going to pay taxes. Our country is the one of only two on earth that taxes income you earn overseas (China does too). Don’t pay, and you will face extradition and prosecution. I’m not saying this is right, but this is reality.
    Those debts being “forgiven” aren’t gone. They’re sitting on someone’s balance sheet. You may be off the hook directly, but as a taxpayer you will continue to foot the bill for as long as you pay taxes. Sure, your proportional share may be lower in the short term, but maybe not forever. They have to be paid, and you can bet that rich people with political clout are going to see to it that you pay before they do. Plus, by moving overseas, you are subjecting yourself to double taxation, so do a careful cost analysis before assuming you will come out ahead.
    And ultimately, even if this plan succeeds, consider that you are essentially turning yourself into a parasite on the system. There is a lot of lament on ROK about the downfall of our culture, the rise of the welfare state, the perverse incentives it creates, and the negative effects it has on behavior. Just realize that you are playing in to the problem. You are no different than the woman who wants to walk away from tens of thousands of credit card debts after she has kept all the expensive shoes she bought, or from the single moms who want to walk away from their mortgage on a house (but stay in the home) they should never have been approved to buy, after she helped drive up the prices so that you can’t afford to buy.
    If you’re fine with that, go Galt. But remember that the more we foist what should be our personal financial responsibility onto the state, the higher and more permanent the barrier to the middle class becomes. And until you resign that citizenship, you’ll be paying for your own punishment.

    1. Excellent counter arguments. Not many realize what they’ll be giving up should they decide to go Gault.

    2. This right here… is the argument that breaks the back of student loan forgiveness and free college.
      It’s also the point my bankruptcy professor made sure to hammer into our heads. Hence why his classes were the only useful ones I took (secured transactions and bankruptcy) while in LS.

      1. I thought I would hate secured transactions, but I took it because I knew it would be on the bar. Actually ended up being one of the best classes I had, and I have found it very useful in my private life even though I have never used it in professional practice.

      2. Again, when Big Banks and Wall Street lose their debt forgiveness and bailout status, I’ll consider that you have a clue as to what you are saying.

        1. I think debt forgiveness and bailouts for banks are bad things. But their existence is not an argument to create more bad bailouts and debt forgiveness. It’s an argument to stop bad practice, not expand it.

        2. Rolling back Wall Street favoritism? Yes, good luck.
          But stopping bad practice from expanding takes no more than not taking the advice to avoid personal responsibilities.

    3. If you’re cool with giving your life, labor, and tax dollars to a matriarchal system that repeatedly screws you, by all means continue. Your argument amounts to the system knows best, support the system. Some of us disagree.
      P.S. If you live a life of minimalism, especially abroad, you can live on a low enough income to pay zero taxes into the beast. It’s not manly to help finance your own destruction because of the notion of self-sacrifice.

      1. “Your argument amounts to the system knows best, support the system. Some of us disagree.”
        I disagree. That is not my argument at all. My argument is you took the money and you will pay for it one way or the other.
        You MAY escape income tax below a certain threshold, true now, but maybe not in the future (I would submit that if any significant number of people followed your advice, you can bet your ass the tax code would change quickly to make sure they got their money).
        But let’s be clear about what you give up my going to minimalism route – your prime earning years. You are effectively locking yourself into slightly-above-poverty-level living for the rest of your life. You are not building wealth, and you are foregoing jobs that will build experience that would ever allow you to escape this income strata. And, rightly or wrongly, people view a middle aged man trying to enter the workforce and trying to climb the ladder as if there’s something wrong with him, so even if you decide to reverse course later, you have made it much more difficult for yourself.
        It’s not my business to tell people how to live or what choices to make. But let’s be honest about what those choices entail. If you’re fine with this, cool. Good luck to you.
        I just offer my advice, based on personal experience, that what seems ideal to a young 20 something may lose its luster once you become an early forty something and realize that there’s no easy way back up the ladder you got off 20 years ago.
        But I am not saying the system knows best and should be supported. Men should not go to college unless they plan to learn a marketable skill that will quickly pay for itself. Men should not engage in rampant, pointless consumerism. Men should not encumber themselves with debt that they have no reasonable prospect of paying off. All of that is against the current system, and you can do all of those things without condemning yourself to subsistence living just to avoid paying off debts that you legitimately owe. That seems much easier and better from my point of view.

        1. Well, define “current system.” In the U.S.? Worldwide?
          I’m not optimistic that the current system in the U.S. will collapse completely. The reality is that two thirds of our tax dollars are spent on entitlement programs. Throwing seniors under the bus could free up a lot of money that could be used to fix the rest of what ails us.
          The politicians who do it may pay come the next election, but I have noticed over the course of my life that seemingly intractable problems can magically be worked out overnight once we are really at the precipice rather than just caught up in the faux-emergency cycle (which is only used to ratchet up control and ratchet down freedom).
          But you make a point that I was also curious about – you advise a life of minimalism overseas where you avoid taxes here. Presumably your money goes farther there. But where is this and what are the specifics? I’m not trying to be contrarian, legitimately curious as to how this works.
          Every dollar earned here is taxed (tax tables start at $0). The way most lower income folks avoid tax is through standard and personal deductions, exemptions and credits that lower their taxable income to zero. Each situation is different, and so it’s hard to just pick a figure, but let’s go with $20,000. I could see how you could cobble together enough deductions, etc… to pay zero tax on this, and I could agree that in some countries this money would not be poverty level living. But it seems to me that this has the effect of putting you into a higher tax bracket in whatever country that is. So how does it not all end in a wash?

        2. I’ve detailed expenses abroad more on my blog. It’s about $450 a month for me to have Western quality food and shelter and high speed internet abroad. Suffice it to say $6000 a year covers basics. Beyond that it’s investment potential, up to $11,000 a year invested while staying below federal poverty guidelines for student loan and tax purposes. Not to mention I’ve not fucked a bitch outside the 20 to 29 age range since I came here nor below a 7 SMV.

      2. I should also add, life hasn’t screwed me. I have done pretty well for myself, and my prospects are really starting to take off while I am young enough to enjoy the fruits of it.
        Maybe that colors my view of things, but each of us views life through the sum total of his own experience.

      3. I agree: the covenant has been broken. In medieval times, the serfs worked the manor for their lord in exchange for protection. What we see with the current order is a government that openly wages war against its own people, namely White men. The government imports mass numbers of foreigners that depress wages and skew the dating market and then responds with a “Are you afraid of a little competition?” sneer when we voice our objection. The government is openly hostile to its own population.
        White men need to stop being – for lack of a better descriptor – so White. Stop being so reliable, stop being so honest, stop insisting on getting your affairs in order.
        Do you think the Syrian refugee with 10 children or the inner city Baby Daddy even knows what a 401k is?

    4. In a time when the laws favor only the elite, only a sucker plays by the rules.

      1. Perhaps. But the problem is that the laws ALWAYS favor the elite. The elite got to be elite by following your advice. Look at Clinton.

        1. Maybe, but remember, until you are elite, there are sever penalties if you get caught doing it. And unfortunately, the “but the elite are doing it” defense has been soundly rejected.

  22. As long as the current political landscape is allowed to exist, job growth in America will be a distant Reagan Era dream. We’re were lucky, exiting school just before the Reagan economy exploded into job creation ecstasy, where performance was well rewarded, and feminism was just beginning to impact the scene, so that civility could be acceptable. Now, the avarice and corruption of the federal government has DESTROYED the job machine and sucked up much of the economic benefits of living in America.

  23. Here’s my number #1 tip for getting out of student loan debt…ready?…don’t go school to get yourself into student loan debt. See how simple that is?
    On a serious note anyone who is considering post-secondary education should check out Aaron Clarey on Youtube. He’ll break down every degree and school and tell you why you should but most likely SHOULD NOT spend your money there.
    Had I watched his videos before going to college I could have saved myself 3 years and $ 10,000 in a program that taught my nothing related to my current job that I could have done right out of high school.

  24. This article is a scapegoat for not taking responsibility. No one forced you to take a loan out and go to college. YOU chose to do so. It is YOUR fault you didn’t do the research. You were deceived, fine. Deal with it and be smarter next time.
    Focus on paying it off. You are a man of integrity. Teach your kids and guide them so they would not be deceived like you were.
    I can not believe we would promote going against what you promised you would do.

      1. Grandpa Knee used to say “always keep the promises you make when you are drunk. It will teach you not to make promises you can’t or don’t want to keep”
        This is analogous to this. If nothing else, a couple decades paying off a student loan may teach a young man not to take stupid loans he can’t afford.

        1. It’s too bad that you’re childless, because I’d love to hear you talk in earnest about Kid Knee.

      2. Heh…you really are inexperienced in the ways of the world. When Big Business has to do the same, I’ll consider your pearls of wisdom.

        1. You spent too much time at the occupy wall street parties.

        2. So your statement is that because others steal things, you can too without a moral care in the world.
          Sounds exactly like the reasoning I hear from women regarding slutting it up and taking no responsibility for their choices in life.

        3. Wow, so many wrong assumptions. You are still in your 20s I assume? So much self-assured naivety.

        4. All games are rigged. All of them.. There are no non-rigged social systems in the world, at all, anywhere, at any time, period, end of sentence.
          That a system is rigged doesn’t mean that you have to lose your own honor. Honor doesn’t come from the system you live in, it’s something you give as a gift to yourself. Personally I’d rather live my life with my word as my bond, than become a debased mud wriggling corrupt worm like the Left wants me to.
          This doesn’t mean engage in sucker bets against myself, it means that I should however bear full responsibility for my choices. If I took out a student loan without doing a *lick* of research on the relevance of the degree I’m pursuing, that is on *me*, not the school. Most degrees are shit, but nobody is making anybody take them and their relevance and real life value are easily Googled. If you want to be a sucker, be a sucker, but bear responsible for your choices after you’re burned. Pay what you borrowed willingly, learn from your mistake and move forward in life.

    1. I genuinely agree with your sentiment here. However, I don’t see the article as a scapegoat so much as I see it as a cautionary tale for young men who don’t have the correct masculine influence in their lives.
      Yes, I can see how this could be used in the way you suggest and that is not a good thing. That said, I can also see how a 17 year old with a beta dad or no father at all can read this and start thinking about his future plans and, in that respect, this is indispensable.

    2. I agree with everything you said. However I think this article works well as a cautionary take to any among us that are considering taking out 6 figures of debt for a business management or English degree.
      This article isn’t like those VICE articles, which give free press to kids who have fled to Europe to avoid paying, while leaving their parents on the hook for the debt.

        1. Very true, I think this article could have had a better title, maybe something akin to: “the perilous journey of student loan debt” or one with a similar theme.

    3. I can’t believe you’d defend a system that broke all its promises yet expects debt slaves to hold up their end of the bargain. Especially when the plan plays by the system’s own rules. Responsibility comes from knowing what you are getting into, not from being deceived then held accountable.
      I did the research and was more diligent than most. Problem is I like many were sold out and the rules changed against our will. Fuck paying a corrupt government for my own destruction. This is an issue with the manosphere. We complain and complain and complain about what government does to us, then someone comes up with a plan to push back and we all get wobbly and vivisecting.
      “Going Galt” means shrugging off unearned guilt, refusing to support your own destroyers, refusing to give them what Ayn Rand termed “the sanction of the victim.”

      1. To be fair though, Relampago, people going to college willingly accept this burden. In Atlas Shrugged, the government imposed it’s will on the people and it became an authoritarian state. Now if kids were FORCED to go to college and pay for it out of pocket, then I would agree with your premise.

        1. I see his point… the market is such where you basically have to go to college to even ask if they want fries with their big mac.

        2. Yes, accept it with the condition there is a reward. You can’t take the reward away then expect the other side to honor their end of the bargain. How is this different than the government imposing its will on people now by intentionally destroying the middle class and devaluing college education by saturating the market? All with a plan in mind to benefit business with a supply of labor that won’t get sassy because they have a noose around their neck?

        3. It’s a shitty system, no argument here, but at the end of the day, each student is willingly taking on that burden and giving their word to pay back the debt. The college bubble will eventually burst when enough people realize they were mislead and don’t send their kids to college.

        4. Yes and no. I have no sympathy for someone who majors in gender studies, psychology, or some equally worthless degree. They have what’s coming to them.
          I believe the best way to benefit from the system is to either go in for a degree you know you’ll get a good job in (STEM for example) or simply don’t play the game and skip college completely.
          It’s an issue of buyer beware. Any schmuck can get online today and look at the demand for a particular field and the median pay. If they don’t do that before going to college for said job, it’s their own fault.

        5. But…logically speaking, the universities didn’t take away the reward, they are giving you exactly what you paid for.

        6. This is correct. At no point in time is anyone making any promises that your degree in pediatric gynecology or underwater femistry is going to yield you a good return on investment.
          Further, you can find out what the median salary is in any given field pretty easily.
          If I take a big dump and put a pricetag on it that sys $250,000.00 and you come along and say “ILL TAKE IT” don’t look to me for pity when you get home and say “this is shit”

        7. Right, exactly. There’s no excuse with the internet at everybody’s fingertips for people to complain about the useless degrees they obtained and were “promised” would do them well in life. A simple search blows all of those promises away. No excuse at all.

        8. I really thought that my degree in Galgebra was going to make me rich

        9. Education loans aren’t debt with the university, they’re debt with the government. The government created the problem and broke the promises by screwing up the labor market with immigration, free trade agreements, and saturating it with rubber stamps. Not to mention marginalizing men.

        10. Their predatory lending practices would be illegal if it were anybody but the government doing it. Try again, Cuck Everlasting.

        11. What about those that drank the kool-aid before the online era? Your youth and ignorance is showing.

        12. Education loans are owed to the government, not the university. The government sold us out through piss poor policy and misandry. Why would a man pay back a government that performed the equivalent of a bait and switch job?

        13. What about them? For the past decade or longer, no one doesn’t have an excuse for looking online and seeing the reality of their potential job. If you’re in college now, I have no sympathy for you if you choose a shit degree. The resources are there for you to research the information.

        14. right. In the end, they may be a little sneaky in making it seem like no big deal when they lend you the money, but they are fucking money lenders…even Jesus knew not to trust them.
          I am not saying they are nice guys, but I didn’t see a gun to the head of anyone signing up for 6 figures of debt and then, after doing so, majoring in a field which practically guaranteed an inability to pay it off.
          People are always so quick to blame bankers. It’s easy. They have nice suits and fancy cars and boats and shit. They never want to point the blame at the greedy middle class.
          I am sorry, but I knew bankers were crooked since I was 6. If a married couple with a combined income of 80k/year think a 450k mortgage and two brand new cars is a good idea then I say they are fair prey.

        15. But that begs the question, why would a man go to college for a worthless degree to begin with? I see where you’re coming from and I do sympathize with the situation to a degree. However, I believe we are at an impasse on how to handle the situation. If you drank the Kool-Aid, you’re obligated to see it through. No one made you. There’s all the resources in the world to make an informed decision on your degree. My suggestion is going Galt BEFORE college. I believe we must agree to disagree (respectfully, of course).

        16. Opinions vary. Get enough that have had enough and get them to follow this advice and the whole house of cards comes down. Fuck it. I’m ready to let it burn.

        17. On that we can agree. I see the college bubble bursting in the relatively near future and they will have to go back to lower rates and getting rid of the bullshit degrees. My current belief is if you were dumb enough to drink the Kool-Aid, sucks for you. Best to avoid college unless you know the market and median pay for your field.

        18. Heh, ok. This subject does burn me up. You can look at some of my other comments on this thread and figure out why.

        19. So, you have no issue with a government bait and switch and think the system must be supported at any cost. That’s what I gather. How many times do they have to piss down your back before you kick their shins?

        20. “Now if kids were FORCED to go to college and pay for it out of pocket,..”
          Considering how a BA is one of the requirements for many job requirements (as companies cannot require competency tests on applicants), I would say that it is already forced to some degree.

        21. No I’m not ok with it, but in the end, I made the decision to fall for it. Look, I was burned by the bait and switch too. My college debt is paid and I’ve learned my lesson. My job is now to make sure I teach my children so they don’t fall for the same mistake. That is my revenge; not blindly sending my children to college just for the sake of going to college.

        22. I agree with what you’ve said, but why are the bankers crooked? Bankers loan money and expect to be repaid. You take the money and agree to pay it. If the borrower is a dumbass, that doesn’t make the banker evil. And I’d point out that when bankers refuse to loan money to people who obviously can’t pay, they are also villainized as obstacles to progress.

        23. Agreed. And crooked was the wrong word. Allow me to substitute greedy. I know bankers do not give a fuck about me. They care about money. That is why they are bankers. That said, no one tricked anyone into borrowing money. If you borrow more money than you can pay back is it the fault of the lender for driving you into the ground? Fuck that.
          I really wish someone would come out with a movie against all the movies about greedy bankers explaining how the ’08 collapse was due mostly to the greed and stupidity of the American middle class.

        24. One thing I like to point out when the subject occasionally comes up about how greedy bankers caused the financial collapse is that if all those moronic sub-prime home “owners” had simply kept paying their loans, the system would have continued and no collapse would have occurred.

        25. Yes!!!!!
          This is what I like to call the Ghostbusters problem.
          You see, EPA inspector Peck comes into the ghostbusters headquarters and demands that the grid is shut down. The ghostbusters tell him that this will be a very, very bad idea. He does it anyway and all hell breaks loose. Later on, in the Mayor’s office, the mayor wants to know what happened. Bill Murray said “everything was fine until dickless shut down the grid”
          Mayor: Is this True
          Bill Murray: Yes sir, this man has no dick.
          The economy is always a Ponzi scheme. If money keeps going in one way it will keep flowing out the other. Everything was fine until the dickless sub prime home owners turned off the power grid.
          Then Bear, then Lehman, then Madoff….bing bang boom…just pay your fucking bills or do not take the loans…dickless.

        26. “the ’08 collapse was due mostly to the greed and stupidity of the American middle class.”
          This. The people that took out loans and did not fully understand what they were getting into. All of it was disclosed in the loan documents. People just didn’t take the time to read it and understand it. Then they go and blame the lender? Talk about trying to be the most victimized victim like the feminists.

        27. For a few hundred bucks they could have found any accountant to explain the paperwork. They were just all so happy to get their money and buy their American dream. Now we all suffer and have to pretend they are the victims.

        28. The age prior to the internet era had those promises in place mostly fulfilled. If you got a degree in the 80’s and even through the mid 1990’s you got the E Ticket to ride a lot of things kids don’t today. So your question really doesn’t serve your point.

      2. If you have been on this site for some time, you would understand that the world doesn’t owe you a damn thing. Everyone has an equal OPPORTUNITY (not guarantee) to succeed or fail. Getting a degree improves (not promise) your chances of getting a good paying job.
        Investing in a 401K retirement does NOT mean you will retire comfortably.

        1. I never said the world owed me anything, I’ve worked for everything I’ve got. What I did say was I don’t want to be turned into a Beta male bitch paying a corrupt government for a bait and switch job. You think they didn’t know what they were doing when they created a predatory lending system, made it non-bankruptable then flooded the market with cheap, foreign college-educated labor and disincentivized hiring and promoting men? The government has destroyed my equal opportunity. Why pay them for that?

        2. […] media corporations have sold everyone out. […] college girls now fill positions […] punish disobedience to the female superiority […] Evil White Male™ […] spouting Marxism […] higher than average suicide rate.
          I’d like to believe there is room to start a media company of your own. I’d like to believe running a company without these hangups would naturally be more successful and appealing to civilized people. But I can’t honestly say the current culture would support or allow it.
          So, after reading argument and counterargument, I’m pretty much behind you here. The rules have changed over the last ten to fifteen years. The data you used to make your decision to go to college no longer holds true. It’s the other side that breached the social contract first, while you seem to have made a good faith effort to uphold your end.

        3. I will give you an analogy.
          You see a car commercial with a guy and hot women in bikini going to the beach. In your mind you think if you bought this same car, that could be you as well. You take out a loan to buy the car and years later you did not get the hot bitch in the bikini. Now you think you’ve been deceived and the car manufacturer is evil and you won’t pay back the loan on the car.
          Once you earn your degree, you can’t return it to get your money back.

        4. So the best deceiver wins using your logic. As long as you can trick someone into debt bondage their signature makes it okay. And the government was right to sell us all out and we should be good little serfs and pay for the privilege. That’s not how I roll. Deceive, manipulate the market and bait and switch and suffer the consequences. The girl in a bikini argument is a not analagous to this discussion.

        5. You were not tricked. They said you could, not you will. You could land a high paying job without a degree. What they told you was your odds will be better if you have one.
          The Declaration of Independence says you have unalienable right to Life, Liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness. Not guaranteed happiness.
          I don’t seem to be able to get through to you. Maybe when you get older you’ll understand. I had your mindset when I was younger too and now realized how wrong I was.

      3. I often question my modest lifestyle even though my injuries make work slaving too hard on me with thinking like “Is this not what they(social engineers/sjws/government) want? For men to drop out and never amount to any kind of competition for any resources?”.
        Honestly I believe it does aid our enemies when we do not utilize the system at least enough to meet our basic needs in life.
        Yet on the other hand the world needs to slow the fuck down or there will be nothing left to fight over very soon and that is when the true tyranny will begin.
        This juggernaut is unstoppable short of years of violence against the wrong targets with a 100% chance of either being slowly isolated and destroyed or outright nuked.
        So why not do what suits you until the robots come knocking on your door to put an end to you or your freedom.

    4. When our government gives trillions of dollars to every 3rd world shithole in the world. Shitholes full of people who hate us. When Wall Street and Bankers can get Billions forgiven and just walk away. Yet, only these student loans are sacred and can’t be discharged or forgiven? Really? Fuck You. We are now officially in a post-rule-of-law society and playing by the rules is a sucker’s game.

    5. That’s a bit simplistic. Or do you also believe that the American soldiers that died for nothing in Iraq & Afghanistan are to blame because they joined the military.

  25. I am studying in a 7 semester bachelor of science course in germany and will be finished in March 2017. I feel like it was the biggest mistake of my life.
    Yes, I can then name myself an engineer and got a university degree.
    But I wasted the best three years of my life and don’t feel like I learned anything for life. I had to spend my best years in a disgusting turkish dominated german town environment surrounded by cucks wearing ‘Refugees Welcome’-shirts.
    Actually I also wanted to pursue a Master degree but even though it would ‘just be 1.5 more years’ I am not keen to do this anymore. Fuck this shit. Being an engineer was always the safe option my parents wanted me to go for.
    Personally I always wanted to be a photographer, painter and writer and this is what I will try to accomplish when I am done with this stupid university bs. I already produced many acrylic paintings and wrote many essays on philosophical topics (I love to read Kafka, Hesse and Nietzsche since 5 pretty much anything they ever published) and I also recently started a german redpill blog.
    Right when I am done in March I will go to Bangkok for at least two month, just painting, writing and banging. I can hardly wait.

    1. “Personally I always wanted to be a photographer, painter and writer and this is what I will try to accomplish when I am done with this stupid university bs”
      I will say this…from someone who made this mistake, paid dearly for it, and only made it through with a combination of hard work, lucky and the correct events: Do not confuse avocation with vocation.
      I am not one to tell you what is best. Engineer? Doctor? Plumber? Whatever. But you can pursue photography, painting and writing, philosophy, art and science while working a career and saving money for retirement. If you are very good maybe you will get noticed and the career will be all for naught. If you are kind of good, when you do retire with enough money that you no longer need to work, you can then devote your time to your avocation and create what you will.

      1. I never understood the concept of saving for retirement. The current archetype for human life is backward: spend your youngest and most formative years in pensive and deliberate study so you can spend your years as an old man sans hair sans teeth on leisure only to find the ravages of time have left your mind a sluggish dull husk of its former glory…
        I already notice I can’t smell things as vividly as I did as a child. The child-like wonder has also gone.
        Why save for a future that may never come and even if it does, is guaranteed to be at best unpleasant and at worst miserable?
        When I’m 80 years old, I won’t have any sense of taste or smell left. It won’t matter if I eat cat food. And I’m sure the government can spare a couple cans of cat food for ‘Ol Waldemar. I won’t even need Sheba or Fancy Feast. Friskies will do just fine.

        1. you may feel differently at 80. Further, it will be harder to keep yourself from being indigent if you didn’t make enough money when you were able bodied.
          I fully expect to retire by the time I am 60. With my level of fitness and modern medicine I think I can enjoy my life after that in repose, fishing, planting a garden, writing poetry and doing all the stuff I was too busy to do before.

        2. Lake Isle of Innisfree
          I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree,
          And a small cabin build there, of clay and wattles made;
          Nine bean rows will I have there, a hive for the honey bee,
          And live alone in the bee loud glade.

    2. You can come and film bigfoot with me. I have already seen one in the flesh and been in another encounter with a crazy vacalization.
      I believe they are the descendants of Hanuman from the Indian epics.
      When someone finally gets better footage of one up close you will understand.

    3. German universities are nearly free. You got a good deal. I’m sending my kids out of the U.S. and to Europe for university because they are bi-lingual. I noticed any English-based course in Europe charges American rates 99% of the times.

      1. Yeah, you’re right on that. That’s the only reason I still consider to get that Master degree. Because it’s free in germany at the moment.
        Anyway, I will leave this country after graduation. I live like a parasite right now and after this phase is done I will not pay tax money to finance all the idiocracy and refugee welcome culture that is going on right here. Germany is great to get a degree (still pretty secure, high quality research and science, no student loans) but when it comes to demographics it will change dramatically in the next few years. I don’t see any reason to stay in this country permanently. East Asia and East Europe are much better bets. (Especially in my field of air pollution control there is a bright future in those regions)

    4. What’s the name of the German redpill blog that you mentioned in your post?

  26. This kind of strikes as a “don’t get into it in the first place” warning.

  27. The federal government will be bringing hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees into the United States and settling them all over the country. Non-citizens will be given free housing, free medical, and free food while it attempts to strong arm American citizens into paying back usurious student loans.
    The federal government treats foreigners better than it does its own people.
    It has no legitimacy: we have no obligation to honor our contracts with it.

    1. ha. until you want to buy a house and find out that your credit is tanked….also, I am pretty sure that they can just levy your bank account eventually just taking what is theirs.

  28. Also, how many women from S America, Dominican Republic, etc. have already come to the U.S. to birth their Zika babies that will cost the taxpayers a minimum of $10 million over the course of the little miracle’s life?
    LOL’ing at the people here saying American students who studied hard should honor their contracts and pay back their student loans.

    1. I don’t understand. Really. Why would you think it funny to say that if someone borrows money they ought to pay it back?

      1. I think the purpose of the nation state is to promote the interests of its own people ahead of foreigners. By definition, to be exclusive, to be insular, to show preferential treatment to its own. To be tribal. When it starts giving more benefits (more gibs) to random people scraped off the sidewalk, then it ceases to have legitimacy in my eyes.
        As a citizen, there are no perks, no benefits, only obligations: the obligation to sign up for selective service, the obligation to sit for jury duty, etc. A foreigner is given as many if not more perks than a citizen.

        1. I do not take exception to what you say here. It seems perfectly fine. That said, when you willingly borrow money it is your business to pay it back.
          I am not saying people ought to borrow and pay back. I am saying that they ought not borrow, but if they have freely done so then it is their responsibility to remit payment, plus agreed upon interest in full.
          It would see to me that you disagree with that. While I have no problem with what you say above, I don’t know how you get to not making good on loans.

        1. I just did. Maybe I am missing something but the sentence “LOL’ing at the people here saying American students who studied hard should honor their contracts and pay back their student loans.” would seem to me that he feels that American student’s need not honor their contracts and pay back their loans.
          My apologies if I am not reading this right.
          It reads to me like someone saying “things aren’t fair so I don’t need to keep my promises”

        2. In a time when all is corrupt, only a sucker follows the rules. I think that was the point. For what it’s worth, I agree.

        3. If that was the point it was a terrible point an an asinine idea.
          But go ahead, default on your loans.
          You are starting to sound like every hippie cunt who votes for Bernie. Free school. Hold wall street accountable. Either pay your bills or don’t borrow the money. But don’t, for the love of god, bring your liberal cry baby bullshit here and look for sympathy.

        4. This sense of honor and propriety will be the downfall of Western civilization. Every group of people other than Western man wants what is best for him and his people, honor, agreements, rules, covenants be damned. Do you think the woman from Honduras who comes to America with the aim of giving birth to her Zika baby feels any pangs of remorse or guilt that her little miracle will cost the system – into which she never paid a penny – millions of dollars? No, of course not. She wanted what was best for her and her baby: unlimited medical care. And she did what was necessary to get it. Every other group is always conniving and maneuvering and trying to gain an advantage. Only Western man abides by abstract ideals like honoring agreements. This will be his downfall.

        5. I’m a Liberal? No, I’m just not a sucker. Good for you, though. We need your type to prop up the system, serve as cannon fodder in wars, etc.

        6. There will not be canons.
          What there is is you and me. I am a responsible person who has wisely invested and will enjoy the rest of my days and you will one day be fed by the government you are saying to not honor your debts to when you realize that all your hype bought you was an old age of poverty and discomfort.
          Enjoy the revolution dude. In the meantime, don’t lecture me on how the system is crooked and we don’t need to honor our debts.
          Maybe try being a man instead.

        7. Again, I agree with you for about 99% of this. The problem is, if you take a loan and do not pay it back that comes with consequences. Either don’t borrow the money or pay the money back as agreed to. I think the former is a better option.

        8. Honor your obligations and commitments no matter what the time are. Borrowing with the Intention of not paying it back is theft.

        9. But isn’t old age the very definition of poverty and discomfort? I’m not being ageist here -it’s definitely possible to contribute meaningfully into old age (just look at the latest albums from Black Sabbath, David Bowie, etc.), but the quality of life can’t be much improved by money. You may drink the wine of kings and dress in sable and pearl as an old man but you will still find your memories faded, words don’t come as easily as they once did, etc.

        10. Here’s the rub for me – the bank is a private entity. You are a private entity. The position is that the government broke the social contract. OK, but the government is not a party to your agreement with the bank.
          What if your parents had loaned you the money instead of the bank? Would your position really be “sorry, the government lied about my prospects, so I don’t owe you shit.”
          Many don’t realize that they’ll need those banks for lots of other things in their lives – car loans, home loans, business loans, loans to cover you during a period of disability, etc… It might be wise to keep them in your corner by just honoring obligations you made.
          Or don’t. I don’t care. Knowing that someone’s stance on loans is that they don’t have to repay if they get bad feelz just flags them as someone with whom I will never do business.

        11. fuck contribution. I want a back yard, a pool and a boat, a local bar I can go to and talk to some of the other old geezers and a room where I can write my memoires.
          I have an uncle who was a project manager here in new York. He is 76. He goes fishing a few times a week, enjoys DIY projects….this is fine. All men get older and all men die. Nothing to complain about. Why not enjoy those years.
          While it might not work for me right now, I can see a time where building a greenhouse, growing tomatoes and making a little tomato sauce will be nice. And while I am doing this, living off of my wisely invested life savings, I will know that it was possible because I didn’t make dumb decisions like take out huge loans I couldn’t afford.
          Being financially solvent is not a cure for old age. However, you can bet your bottom dollar that not being financially solvent will be much worse.

        12. We are viewing things very differently. You mention the example of parents giving a loan to their children. This is a Western way of thinking. A contract. An abstract.
          In other societies and cultures, the idea of a loan to one’s children would make no sense. Parents do whatever is necessary for their children’s success. The family is a unit.
          It is hard to imagine living in the US. but there are countries where the government actually has the back of the citizens, where there isn’t an adversarial relationship, where the government and the people are part of the same family

        13. Heh, you really are a fucknuts. I’m probably worth five times what you are. That doesn’t mean I don’t see the bullshit of the system. You are either very young or incredibly immature for your age.

        14. This is correct and arguing the point that the government lied about your prospects and therefore your debts are null and void is some Bernie Sanders Occupy Wall Street shit.

        15. I agree about your point on family. But I’m not sure I agree on your point about the government having the back of its citizens. Where is that the case?

        16. I don’t disagree that if I were to default on a loan that I might be denied a loan for a new car. But if I don’t desire a new car and I’m content driving some old used beater, I won’t suffer from said consequences. Likewise, if I don’t desire to own a home, I won’t be affected.

        17. That would work fine if all played by the rules, but they don’t. For instance, if you’re an American Indian, you are allowed to sell reduced price cigarettes. If you’re a Black American selling loose cigarettes, you’ll be choked the fuck out. If you’re an Amer-Indian, you are allowed to hunt and fish as you wish. If you’re Jim Bob from Wisconsin, you better have the right permit to shoot that buck. The rules are not uniform in their application. It would be like trying to play a game of chess when your opponent invents moves and disregards the rules.

        18. I get where you are coming from and can have respect for it while still strenuously disagreeing.
          To the degree that we can be free which, albeit, isn’t great to begin with that freedom begins in possibilities. If you default on your loans you will reduce your possibilities. Having fewer possibilities will in fact take away from your freedoms.

        19. I really have no idea where you are coming from. I won’t play “lets guess the strangers age on the internet with you” nor will I play “lets guess the strangers net worth”
          What I will say is that if you honestly believe you can ramble through life defaulting on loans then you are not a man in my book and have no right to an opinion. Further, you will eventually suffer consequences that, if you can’t see, then you are really blind.

        20. “The rules are not uniform in their application. It would be like trying
          to play a game of chess when your opponent invents moves and disregards
          the rules.”
          Off topic, but it strikes me that this game could actually be very interesting. Suppose the only rule was that you could not invent a rule that resulted in an automatic checkmate. Might be interesting try to play it to see how it works out.

        21. I remember the first time my father showed me en passant pawn capture. I thought for sure he had just made it up.

        22. For all of the problems, I still feel that as an American citizen, a white male (so, as we all know, the most shat upon class), I have been afforded more opportunity here than imaginable.
          At every turn there has been a place for me to get a foothold so long as I was willing to work hard for it.
          And maybe I need a permit to shoot a moose and I can’t just go sell cigarettes, but all in all my experiences have been overwhelmingly positive when it comes to what I get versus what I pay.
          I feel that on the left there is a pathological need to blame failures on the system but not on the right as much. I don’t know. I am not very political.
          I can say that I play by the rules and always have and I have been rewarded greatly for it.

        23. It’s easier to say if a friend borrows money from you and doesn’t pay it back, how would you feel? Thr friend says paying you back is for suckers.
          Now you wouldn’t trust this guy ever again. Society collapses.

        24. Actually I have spent time around natives and lived on reservations in a few states and the natives can hunt and fish the tribal lands but off of them they pay like everyone else.

        25. I agree that the laws are not enforced in uniformity and that is the one thing in this life that I would demand equality… that the application of the laws apply to everyone. It is one of the pillars of the Republic (or whats left of it). No special snowflake groups getting preferences, vagina “pass” nor rich oligarchs or politicians above the law.
          As a man, you uphold you own morals. You don’t lie or steal– no matter if you are living in Sodom or Gemorrah. As you cannot control others people’s behavior, but just your own, and you shouldn’t associate with people who do. For those who do and become basic parasites– f*ck them. They chose. Don’t follow down the same path after them as you know where it leads.

        26. You obviously don’t know much about the US economic system if you think the little guy should tow the “honor your contracts” line so the banks/corporations can exploit it and give everyone the finger. No, it is not just a few of the corps, it’s all of them. The United States is a privately owned, for profit corporation, read USC Title 28 Ch 6 3002 15a, for irrefutable proof. Do some research. Start with fractional reserve banking, how banks create free money for themselves out of thin air, and then maybe get an idea of just how much 1 trillion dollars is, such as how many thousands of shipping containers it takes to hold just 1 trillion and then discover how many dozens of trillions Obongo gave the corps that they have not, and never will, paid back. That might be a good start.

        27. It is always nice to be condescended to on line by someone with subhuman intellect.
          If you read Title 28 as poorly as you read my comment your opinions would make sense. More than likely you didn’t bother reading much of either and/or didn’t understand much of either but rather are just regurgitating some shit from a website that makes you feel like a special snowflake.
          Well, sugarplum, I will give you the quick run down for those with a lack of attention span or IQ points to spare.
          Don’t borrow money you can’t afford to pay back. If you do then it is your own fucking fault.
          That said, if you sign a contract of your own free will and fail to live up to the terms because you think that it is unfair after the fact than you are nothing more than a little whining bitch.

        28. Having your head up your ass, name calling, and not being able to articulate an ACTUAL argument is not a valid substitute for an ACTUAL argument. Please get a rectal decraniotomy and leave the adult topics to the adults.
          “sugarplum” and “snowflake” , you’re a sodomite, obviously.

        29. You’re the “subhuman” who wouldn’t know what a contract was if it was in writing and you signed it. How many signatures are required on a contract for it to be binding? You don’t know, obviously, by your idiotic rhetoric. The answer is AT LEAST 2, one representing each side of the contract. How many signatures are on many of the “contracts”, such as mortgages, student loans, etc ? Once again, moron does not know. The answer is, often or usually only ONE, sometimes multiple signatures for the same side of the contract, such as husband and wife. It is not a “contract” with only one signature. Delude yourself all you want, liberals enjoy delusion to substitute for reality.
          Now shut your pie hole and keep your sanctimonious BS to yourself, useful idiot, godvernment groveler.

        30. You are worse than feminists, worse than Black lives matters. Really man. Reconsider your entire being. You have made so many facially incorrect statements in two comments and did it with so much ego that I have to suspect if you were put into sub Saharan Africa they would take pity on you.

        31. That’s not an argument. By that standard I can say “You are wrong” and it is just as valid. You said nothing and you say it with an egotistical attitude insisting that you are right because you said I am wrong. Your head is bigger than Hitlary’s. No one is as bad as you, it just doesn’t get as nonsensical, unsubstantiated, vacuous, ad hominem, and condescending as you.

        32. I can’t argue with someone who doesn’t have the ability to read, especially online. Figure out why you are wrong about USC and maybe I’ll come back and give you an education. Until then, I don’t argue with pets, clowns or the help

        33. So, you’re incapable of giving a rational substantiated argument, that’s abundantly clear. Just accept that you had your ass handed to you and move on. Don’t be a butt hurt whiny bitch about it.

        34. I’m done with you son. Learn to read before talking to your superiors

        35. You were done when your ass was kicked, boy. Now go name call somewhere else.

        36. Everyone gets it, you can’t stand losing when proven you can’t articulate an argument and resort to name calling/ad hominem. Stop being a butt hurt whiny bitch and move on.

        37. Ok I’ll bite. I will give you a chance. Your original point was an incorrect reading of a USC law and you saying you don’t need to pay your own debts. Go ahead. Explain it to me.

        38. That’s a straw-man argument, I didn’t say that.
          You said :”Your original point was an incorrect reading of a USC law”. I said that stating I am wrong, WITH NO SUBSTANTIATION, is not an argument. It is simple arrogance and condescension. Please explain how I am wrong about USC.

        39. Because you didn’t read the very first line that defined the terms as dealing with the subsections only. It’s just the way they write these. Honestly, I don’t want to argue. If you are on this site than we share opinions. I apologize if I am harsh. If you want I will give you my email address and explain how you were wrong in a polite way. I respect your thoughts but you are simply incorrect and I think you can do better. Really. Let me know. I can’t fight with you but if you want me to teach you how to read this stuff properly I will.

        40. If you go back and read my original comment to you you will see it was not I that took this exchange down the non-polite road, it was you. You chose to be offended by words that were neutral and then you went on the attack. Then you kept insisting I was wrong about my assertions without you giving any substantiation whatsoever, you still have given none. “Because you didn’t read the very first line that defined the terms as dealing with the subsections only.” Is the closest you have come so far but it is still vague and ambiguous. How is “UNITED STATES, a federal corporation” reinterpreted to mean they are not a corporation?
          I believe it is possible that you know more about USC and other law than I do, although I seriously doubt it. Because you have notions regarding debt and contracts that are clearly very naive and simplistic and you seem to be mentally trapped in a purely ignorant concept of what debt and contracts are and a blind obedience to a false concept of honor. You do know that FRN’s are not money, don’t you? Do you know what the elements of a contract are? I sincerely believe you know very little about the economic system of the USA.
          Very importantly, do you file income tax returns? If yes, then your bias, and inability to ask simple questions is in serious doubt and your dedication to truth, honor, and morality is weak. Likely your ability to exclude fear from your decision making is also severely low.
          These are not insults or condescension, simply straightforward conversation. I do not cower to government, its corruption, or tolerate those that apologize or advocate for it. I know what is right and live a very high standard of ethics. Ethics is doing what is right irrespective of the results. Knowing the extreme difference between a natural person and a corporation is key to having consistent ethics regarding interaction with the two. Also, no law that violates the foundation of law, the US Constitution, understood with natural law, is “law” nor is it valid in any way whatsoever. IOW, calling water dry does not make it so, even if you have a big gun to enforce it.
          If you want to share a polite explanation of why you believe I am wrong then please do it here and we can have an exchange that may benefit others.
          Yes, I agree, we likely do share views on other topics, being here on ROK. Likely we will exchange on other issues as well.
          Keep in mind, deceit, by definition, is not detectable. It is wise to see things through this perspective.
          Please continue.

        41. I will continue in the spirit you suggest. I had an interesting weekend and saw my family and have revisited some things in my mind. Growth is a good thing. And while I will still claim you are incorrect, I will try to soften my approach. As Jules say in pulp fiction, “I’m trying to be the Shepherd Ringo, I am trying real hard”
          I certainly do have a certain harsh charm to me and I am sure it comes off like I am a total asshole most of the time…however, I am feeling a little different today. So here goes.
          To answer your first question “How is “UNITED STATES, a federal corporation” reinterpreted to mean they are not a corporation?” I will give a little more detail than just saying read the first line.
          The trick is to know how to read legal writing. It is a learned skill and not to do with inborn intelligence. Like driving manual, you just need to learn how to do it and then it is second nature.
          So you are pointing to 38 USC §3002 where it says
          (15) “United States” means — (a) a federal corporation (b) an agency, department, commission, board, or other entity of the United States; or (c) an instrumentality of the United States
          And you are jumping to a logical conclusion of sorts…”well it says right there that “United States” means “a federal corporation.”
          There is nothing wrong with this at face value but if you read the very first line of Code 3002 it reads “as used in this chapter”
          Those words are very important. In a nutshell, the way legal writing works, is that every time you say something all the terms need to be clearly defined. If there is any ambiguity then there will be problems later on down the road. This is why stuff like USCs are so long. Books and books long. Because all specifics need to be explained.
          As at the very start of 28 USC 3002 it says “as used in this chapter” and then goes on to give 16 definitions such as what is meant be “property” what is meant by “state” or “judgement and even what is meant by “United States” The definitions given in this chapter, however only apply within the confines of the chapter just over 100 sections out of the thousands upon thousands of sections in the USC
          Further, the definitions not only do not apply as definitional of the US in general but only in terms of that single chapter of the USC but also it is further refined to a definition that only is relevant and applicable in federal proceedings. However, something that narrowly defines a particular scope in one section of code cannot override the entire nation. It is only related to questions of Federal Debt. So yes, in terms of federal debt, and only in terms of federal debt, the United States can be defined as a corporation and in no other way is this possible.
          Despite this narrow definition, it was further defined in the case of US v. Bongiorno which you can google. THe relevant section would be footnotes 8 and 9 to that case. I will paste them here
          [8] The FDCPA defines “debt” as:
          (A) an amount that is owing to the United States on account of a direct loan, or loan insured or guaranteed, by the United States; or
          (B) an amount that is owing to the United States on account of a fee, duty, lease, rent, service, sale of real or personal property, over-payment, fine, assessment, penalty, restitution, damages, interest, tax, bail bond forfeiture, reimbursement, recovery of a cost incurred by the United States, or other source of indebtedness to the United States, but that is not owing under the terms of a contract originally entered into by only persons other than the United States;….
          28 U.S.C. § 3002(3). In this connection it defines “United States” as:
          (A) a Federal corporation;
          (B) an agency, department, commission, board, or other entity of the United States; or
          (C) an instrumentality of the United States.
          28 U.S.C. § 3002(15).
          [9] In passing the FDCPA, Congress evinced a clear intent to exclude private transactions — debts created under (and thus governed by) state law, and to which the United States was not an original party — from the grasp of the FDCPA. See H.R.Rep. No. 101-736, supra, at 23, 1990 U.S.C.C.A.N. at 6631. In this vein, a main proponent of the bill emphasized that to warrant inclusion the transaction underlying the debt must be one in which the government was a direct, original participant. See 136 Cong. Rec. H13288, supra. The final version of the FDCPA codifies this legislative intent.
          So despite the very narrow definition in USC the court deemed it necessary to further tighten this to avoid people making the very mistake you are making by definition what federal debt is (an amount that is owning to the US on account of a direct loan….etc” and further stating specifically that Congress had the clear intent to exclude private transaction etc.
          So it is not a reinterpretation to say that the US is not a corporation, such as GE or whatnot, but simply to show some context by which that definition is relevant.
          This is all tied into the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. The US government has a right to recoup monies owed to it by direct loan etc and in order to be able to exercise that quite sensible right to collect on debts codes with incredibly narrow scopes have been created in such a way that they do not conflict with the foundational document (US Constitution).
          You can also, to really put a fine point on it, look at the differences between a Standard Corporation and a federal corporation which has been even more narrowly defined (see Blackstone) in order to make sure that the powers are not abused.
          To just look at 3002 (15) is incredibly misleading. The US is is not nor has it ever be a for profit corporation.
          To go back to your point about mortgages now, we should understand them in a more defined way as well. As with the USC we need to set definitions. A mortgage is, strictly speaking, not a contract. What it is is a promissory note.
          A bank which is for profit and not a federal entity, based on your debt history, has judged that you are an acceptable person to be lended money to for interest. You sign a promisary note, not a contract, giving your word and your fiscal reputation that you will repay that loan according the pre defined conditions (time, interest etc) with specifically laid out penalities for failure to do so. You aren’t in a two party contract, the promissory note is just that….a legally binding promise to repay lent money to what is essentially a company that lends money.
          It is not “cowering” to government to keep your promises. If you borrow money with no intention to pay it back despite making promises to the contrary than you are nothing more than a common thief. It would be no different than walking into a car dealership to test drive a car and then just driving away with it and not returning it. It is, pure and simple, theft and the thief is a criminal. Further, the bank that lends money for mortgage is not a federal company and is not governed by the USC in question. It is a for profit incorporated business which makes its profit by lending money for interest.
          There are ways to borrow money for interest that are smart and ways that are less so. If you borrow more than you can pay back and then do not pay it back you have made some big mistakes and trying to couch that in some kind of Robin Hood ethics is just another way to dodge responsibility.
          You say you know what is right and you live by a high standard of ethics. However, if your assentation is that it is perfectly fine to borrow money, make a promise to pay it back and then not pay it back I name you criminal.
          Doing what is right without thought to the consequences is, as you point out, a noble pursuit. I would suggest it is very much within a noble ethical framework that if you feel that usury is wrong (for whatever reason you might) then you do not borrow money. If the consequence there is that you will never own a home but you are willing to forgo that in order to keep to a principle then wow, you are a good man. However, if you feel that the system of borrowing money is wrong and you borrow it and simply do not intend to pay it back there is absolutely nothing ethical about it.
          I am not seeing where you find that there are laws that are violating the Constitution here. You are, of course, correct that if there is a law that violates the constitution that it is not valid. And if you are held to account for such a law you have an entire legal system to avail yourself of in order to make that claim. But a bank like JP Morgan Chase or Wells Fargo is not the Federal Government.
          What I fail to understand is why you would argue that it is alright not to pay your debts or your taxes.
          The argument that Federal Income tax is unconstitutional is brought up over and over again when someone tries to get out of paying their taxes and it has never been successfully argued.
          People argue that Taxation from federal government violates the 5th amendment because it is the taking of property. And yes, the 5th does protect against unlawful seizure of property but remember the constitution itself grants the federal government the power to tax specifically. So having the 5th amendment prohibit taxation would create a contradiction with the foundational document and therefore taxation would not be a violation of the 5th as has been upheld in multiple decisions. Further, The supreme court upheld the constitutionality of federal income takes in Phillips v Commissioner in 1931
          Another claim that is used is that filing tax return is voluntary. Some people argue that the IRS themselves have said so. This comes from the 1040 form instructions and the 1960 supreme court case FLorida V US where the decision said that the “system of taxation is based on voluntary assessment and payment, not upon distrain” and there have indeed been a lot of cases with this as the argument. However, context, once again, is king and this is all in refrence to the ability of the tax payer to calculate and file the appropriate returns instead of having the feds make that determination from the start. There is absolutely no mention of income tax return being voluntary anywhere in the tax code. Time and time again the courts have deemed this a frivolous argument.
          Then some people will say that taxation is slavery and so violates the 13th amendment. That is a clever argument, but time and time again the courts have denied it. Saying that we are slaves to tax is not the same as saying it is slavery in truth.
          Finally, to your point about FRNs. Some people claim that FRNs (otherwise known as cash) are not real currency because they cannot be exchanged for gold or silver. The argument always sites Article I Section 10 of the constitution which grants the federal government the exclusive power to create and regulate money. People will specifically claim that section 10 limits all legal currency exclusively to gold and silver.
          However, there is nothing in section 10 that either explicitly or implicitly limits the federal government to only gold or silver or disallows them to declare another form of legal tender. The Fed Gov’t has a constitutional right to regulate what is legal tender and they have made FRNs such. To say other wise is wrong. US v Riffen is a definitive case on this.
          There are exactly 0 people who know what they are talking about who deny that FRNs are taxable because they aren’t either gold or silver and as such not legal currency.
          No one.
          I will say that I do get overly frustrated when people make arguments about things that they don’t understand and then act incredulous when they are told they are wrong. However, you are correct. Either rolling my eyes and ignoring you or engaging and explaining were totally valid. However, just being a jerk wasn’t.
          Hope that helps a little.

  29. ‘Lean In’ and contribute to this?? NO WAY. NO.
    My only question: What can I do to actively STOP this involuntary subsidization of a parasitic system that is destroying my freedom and interests: economically,
    racially, personally?
    Fleecing the productive is a sure way to make the productive disappear or at least foster the parasitic mindset to steal, lie, coerce and destroy. Taxed on the money you earn, then taxed on savings, taxed on investments, taxed on tax.
    Government regulation and coercion in Canada is just insane. Why work??? WE have communism. The government control wages and incomes AFTER the fact with taxation. The government takes 50% of everything. If you work hard then it is simply given to someone else by force.

  30. I seriously think recent high school grads should go out and explore the world a bit before plunging in and taking on debt before they figure out what they want to do with their lives. If no other reason is a man reaches the peak of his SMV around 25-30. Women peak about 18-22. I see lots of guys in their early 20’s complain that girls are snobby. The reality is that guy still needs to mature a bit and fill out some. The 18-22 year old woman is looking to marry guys who are getting past the nightclub scene and is getting their life in order.
    Go out and have some adventure for a few years, then hit college at 22-23 when you have a better idea what you want to do. By the time you are finishing college, you will be on top of your game and know what you want, just at the right time to attract the best girls you can.

    1. Men peak at 30? Ouch, what happened to the “men age like wine, women age like milk” argument?

      1. Well, it isn’t so much that you are going downhill, but to the 18-22 year old, you start to appear creepy because of the age difference. A woman in her late 20’s would probably find a guy in his late 30’s, early 40’s most attractive.

        1. There are so many factors at play here that the actual age becomes almost totally insignificant.

        2. If you’re packing, women of all ages will throw themselves at you for sex, no matter how old you are. But the only guys who know this for sure are the guys who are packing…

        3. Forgive me, I was referring to finding a LTR with a unicorn, not sex. Those girls have a very narrow bandwidth in age. The few that are out there get picked up rather quickly and can afford to be picky themselves.

        4. A buddy of mine who is 29 had this 18-year-old hottie on the string. She dumped him. Why? She moved in with a 72-year-old dude who pays her way. Money and big dicks. That’s what most of them want. If you aren’t packing, stack up the cash. Age truly means nothing to women in the face of those twin pillars of attraction – even when it comes to relationships. Money and big dicks. Bind it around your heart. The rest of the things they claim they want the most in a man, are just window-dressing…

        5. Doesn’t sound like she was the high quality that I am talking about, sure, she was the right age, and I presume good looking. But, her morals are in the toilet.

  31. I was fortunate enough to earn and maintain full scholarships for both my bachelors and masters degrees. Honestly, I wouldn’t have gotten my masters if A) Wasn’t free and B) I had any fucking clue what I was going to do after getting my bachelors. I had no idea, no direction. The idea of middle school, high school, college, marriage, house, family was battered into my skull from the moment I was born.
    Once I got my masters, I was still lost–it was just a temporary delay to entering the real world. So then I picked up a shitty paying job that would help pay the bills as I applied to professional jobs. But the professional jobs rarely called back, and even after a few interviews, I was still stuck in a crappy paying job. I had no experience, and in the real world, experience matters more than a degree.
    Although I had accrued zero debt in college, I started depending on credit cards afterwards. I didn’t completely bury myself in debt, but I did rack up enough for it to be a pain in my ass later. Now, it wasn’t all bad. I skied 20-30 days a year, went out and met and banged plenty of hot women, and traveled all around the US. But after three years of idiotic spending habits, I found myself $15k in the hole.
    Since then, I found a better paying job that has absolutely nothing to do with my degree. I got this job because the coworker of my friend knew the owner of a company. I have also created a secondary form of income–it doesn’t bring in much (about $5-10k a year), but it has the potential to grow, and hey, who doesn’t like extra cash? Plus I’m working on another form of income and I’m nearly 100% debt free. I just wish I had learned some of these lessons a few years ago. It would have saved me plenty of heartache. The struggles have made me stronger, and hopefully some of the younger guys reading this will take it to heart and not make the same mistakes as me. Make your money early, treat yourself a little bit (not too much), and don’t get degrees in useless fields.

  32. If you guys could create a mandatory curriculum for college students, what would it be? Im curious as to what the lawyers on this site would start with…thanks.

    1. I would abolish it. If college is supposed to impart career specific skills, why should I have to waste time in core curriculum classes outside my major of study.
      I realize there is a general liberal arts degree that is contrary to this, but for all majors? I think it’s time wasted.
      What you need to know of general knowledge, you should have obtained by high school, and what remains should be easily obtainable these days on the internet for free.

      1. You dont think the student wouldnt benefit from required courses on constitutional law, even if they werent planning on becoming lawyers??

        1. Depends on the student. You can force someone to sit in a class. Can you force them to actually learn or care about the material?
          If I want to be an engineer, what do I care about constitutional law? Maybe I do, but more likely I do not. Hell, most kids probably don’t even care about a lot of their in-major classes

    2. Core curriculum has been corrupted and is now used for indoctrination. We could shorten college by one or two years by eliminating it altogether, the students would be just as skilled and would have less debt.

  33. I think this highlights the fact that NOT ALL DEGREES ARE CREATED EQUALLY. I steered my kids into getting technical degrees, which I paid for. (Hence my ability to steer)
    They are all working at high paying jobs now. I suspect working in TV media is perhaps the very worst place to work.
    Also like to point out that not getting married and having kids is missing out on one of the greatest joys in life. It’s hard but pays a lot of satisfaction at the end if you do it right.

  34. Sounds like a shitty plan. Youd be better off stacking debt towards a mining/oil/engineering field and then bailing to a different country altogether upon graduation. Renounce US citizenship, have good coin to date on, and a free education lol.

  35. I guess while keeping income low, it would be possible to work under the table. This should be possible overseas especially, like if someone taught English in their home.
    But this lifestyle could come back to haunt you as “cashless” becomes more prevalent.

    1. Which is precisely why they’re promoting a cashless system. So every facet of your financial life can be subject to scrutiny and control. That’s what tyrannies do.

      1. We might have to go old school, as in, having to adopt a barter system.

        1. Some of us are already there. I know a few small businessmen in the mid-west who do this. After earning a certain amount they don’t want cash payments, but they will take a week at your condo in Florida or use your NFL football ticket or accept your grandads old M1 rifle or a half hog to fill their freezer or…
          The taxman is a terrorist.

  36. Atlas Shrugged stopped being a novel years ago and became a “future history” instead. It’s impossible to read without seeing SJWs’ voices. Just finished it for the 9th time.

  37. It should go without saying, of course, don’t get an education that you can’t afford in full with no debt, period.

  38. Most people in the states look down on you big time if you don’t follow the script but fuck them and the narrative they push.
    I’ve lived without income for the most part for several years now and I do just fine here in the US.
    I can’t say I live this way to punish the system but only to follow my own dreams literally and they have never steered me wrong being psychic and all.
    The best part is that I radiate this aura of zero fucks given that repels gold diggers and well honestly most all women and that’s no loss here in the states.

  39. Erh…no. If you signed up for a debt you signed up for a debt, you owe it. Especially if you have the means, intellect, and physical capabilities to repay it. I’m of course not disparaging anyone who’s been forced to file for bankruptcy or has some other valid reason. You’re men not mice.
    I do agree with finding a legal loophole or renegotiating interest or reaching some sort of settlement. Quit your job, move overseas or get a low paying job while you build your business or build the skills that will garner a good income, then repay loans or rule the world, whichever comes first.

  40. If I meet someone who, even as an adult, can’t stop talking about the benefits of their education, then I assume they’re a blue pill drone and that I’ll have nothing in common with them. Think of it this way – If the need for diplomas was suddenly removed from job qualifications, would your education have been worth it? Could you have taught yourself everything you needed to know? Were all those mandatory gen eds at all necessary to your development education- and life-wise?
    I went to college for graphic design because I was told I was supposed to go to college for graphic design. And once I got my diploma I never actually needed no. No job I ever applied to ever asked for a transcript or education credentials. I could’ve graduated high school and then said I went to NYU or something and they would’ve believed me. But that’s not the worst part. In the art/graphics department we were barely taught technique, but rather CONCEPTS and putting politics into a work. One painting professor was so full of himself that he’d give you a bad grade if you didn’t paint in his exact style (Since he was my painting professor for my last 2 semesters I ended up devolving as a painter, to the point now where I can’t even paint anymore).
    All in all, I left college as a worse artist and designer and ended up having to re-teach myself everything. Now I make 100% of my income off freelance graphic design based solely on things I taught myself. And 10 years since graduating has proven to me that I use almost nothing I learned in college – 4 years of my life were wasted when I could’ve just taught myself everything. And what do I have to show for it? A diploma (That I can’t find anywhere since I moved) and about $10k left in student debt. And I secretly suspect most people I know have these same feelings.
    However, I’m lucky that I’ve been able to make a career out of my college major, at least I’m not someone who spent tens of thousands of dollars on a degree and is now a bartender or server. And I only got to where I am through hard work (And I’m pretty sure I’m one of the only working designers from my graduating class). Most people just aren’t cut out for “making it”, they just assumed like I did that a college degree will get you anything you want. It’ll also get you fries with that.

    1. Pardon me asking, but what are the long term plans for that kind of industry, how does it play out when you want to retire and still need to generate some income?

      1. It’s pretty much all about making as much as you can, living frugally, and working when you want. Since I’m freelance and not working for one company I can come and go as I please. If I retire but still need income I could always pick up new jobs without committing to a career full-time. And it’s something I enjoy, so I’m not counting down the days to retirement like so many people I know.

  41. The author of this article is a hypocrite! Since when has voluntarily borrowing money from the government and then screwing hardworking taxpayers by refusing to repay it been considered a libertarian position?! It sounds like government enforced wealth redistribution to me! If you want to be a principled libertarian refuse to accept government loans in the first place. There are plenty of private lenders are willing to provide you with loans for college. Or even better don’t borrow any money at all. No one is forcing you to take out loans.

  42. Hope the author enjoys his 3rd world medical care and lifestyle with no hope of a secure retirement. Meanwhile I have two professional degrees and am working on a professional license in a hot field. Because of that I have no debt, a good paying job, good quality of life, and a secure retirement. While the author is begging on the side of the road after he’s too old to work I’ll be enjoying my retirement on the beaches of Miami with margaritas and running Tom Leykis style sugar daddy game on senoritas.

  43. I think the better advice is do Not go into massive debt to fund a lackluster average paying career.
    College branch campuses, junior college or trade schools all are great choices for at least 2 years

  44. This is a cucky article. Perhaps you should have went into a non-faggot field rather than whatever you go to college for to be on television.

  45. If John Galt signed an agreement (that is gave his word) to repay a loan, he would do so.
    If you agree to do something, then renege, you are a liar.
    If you borrow something and don’t repay it, you are a thief.

  46. Put all your earnings into paying student debt. Live off of consumer debt accumulation. Declare bankruptcy to escape consumer debt. Why has no one wrote this?

  47. Is it only current loan takers who have their loans forgiven after 20 or 25 years?

  48. Fake death certificate in old name, then new i.d., name and ss#. Done.

  49. One thing to keep in mind regarding loan forgiveness on SLs on an IBR plan is you will be taxed on the forgiven amount and given a 1099. Don’t think a lot of people can pay $20,000 in taxes due immediately on a $59,000 loan forgiveness. OTOH, people who work approved jobs in teaching or in the public sector are not taxed on any forgiven amount. Maybe they’ll change the tax code in the future regarding this, but I’m not holding my breath.

  50. I know some people with student loans in excess of $150,000 who moved abroad and renounced their citizenship. There were other reasons as well like FATCA.

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