A Story About Why You Should Never Lose Your Frame

In all of your interactions with the female variety of homo sapiens, one thing you must always keep in mind is maintaining your frame. It cannot be jostled, impinged, detracted from, or otherwise monkeyed with if you expect success in your life. The following is an example of how seemingly innocuous circumstances can lead to losing one’s frame, and the undesirable results that you can expect to follow.

Cracks in the facade

Earlier this year, I found myself in a unique position in my adult life; I was helping a girl. Not in the way you help a girl move some large items because you possess a truck and a penis, and a six pack or access to her vagina was implicit in the arrangement. No, I was unwittingly taken in, a moment of lost frame spiraling down into a bitter lesson re-learned.

In my line of work, one is frequently called upon to help certain people. In this case, a girl from a competing business had jumped ship and came to ours in search of career advancement. This was not wholly unexpected, since not only had the aforementioned business lost several people to us, but also because my coworkers and I (almost exclusively male) had fostered an environment of teamwork, camaraderie, quality, and respect that was resulting in prominent, easily identifiable success.

In short, we were winning and she wanted to be on the winning team. I was asked to help her along when she first showed up, which I was happy to do because 1) I enjoy that aspect of my job, and 2) she seemed genuinely grateful for the quality instruction I provided and how much better it was than what she had experienced before. The fact that she was a girl was, at first, a non-issue. This was the first of my mistakes.

About two weeks progressed like this and we were becoming, if not friends, at least teammates in a coach-mentor relationship. One Wednesday afternoon while I was enjoying my mid-day break, she called. At first, all I could understand were sobs. It wouldn’t be a far stretch to say she was hysterical, so immediately I went into protective older brother mode. Mistake #2.

After I calmed her down, she explained that she’d been kicked out of the house she’d be living in. That situation could totally warrant someone being distraught, but given that a lot of her personal property was still in the house she’d been evicted from and she wasn’t the best at problem solving, she was in total freak-out mode. I welcomed her into my home so she could get cleaned up and we then went back to pick up the rest of her belongings, which then went into my storage (once again, having a truck and a penis comes back to haunt me).

I offered several solutions for her living arrangements, and she settled on couch surfing with friends until she was back on her feet…but then she also ended up crashing on my couch. Mistake #3.

Cognitive Dissonance

One might ask how I could let this happen. A reasonable question, since I definitely knew better. But in my defense, I let my considerate nature and sense of duty to others get the better of me. Strangely, this might be the result of my military training.

Before I turned to my current profession, I had spent my entire adult life in uniform. Being a naval officer has been a big part of my identity since just after my 18th birthday. I did 5 deployments in 6 1/2 years, put off grad school, my family, marriage, and children because I believed focusing on my personal development as a leader was more important. I have noticed one commonality between myself and my peers is that when we see a wrong, we want to right it.  If we cannot, we do the best we can for those in the circumstance. When we see someone who needs help, especially someone we are responsible for, we want to help them and will go to great lengths to do so.


This old instinct is what led me to lose my frame when dealing with this particular girl. I knew better than to do anything white knight-ish, but I saw a damsel in distress and my inculcation as a military leader kicked in, and there I was with my Captain Save-a-Ho cape flapping in the breeze. It’s pretty elementary what happens from there: Expending time and effort to help someone who should be a fucking grown-up, punctuated by enthusiastic sex. Mistake #4.  I played it straight, cleaned out most of my harem, was not dishonest with her, provided shelter, food, and companionship. And then got friendzoned.

I honestly could not remember the last time this had happened to me as an adult. I was beside myself, incredulous. I thoroughly examined the circumstances and realized that I’d fucked up, fair and square. Instead of maintaining my frame as an alpha, I took on the role of orgasm-giver AND beta provider. I couldn’t even be mad at her, since I’ve known the fickle nature of women for so long, yet still let myself fall into this trap. Needless to say, after I shook off the few weeks I’d wasted I saw the extent to which a seemingly capable, worthwhile human being could let their hamster run wild.


Once it became abundantly clear that AWALT, including in this case, I stopped talking to her. We were still in the same space on an almost daily basis and in the same social circle, but I did not communicate with her in any way and barely acknowledged her presence. But I could still observe her, and all the old truths were there.

Do not listen to what a woman says, watch what she does. She’d said she didn’t want to fuck me anymore because she didn’t want to be intimate with someone she worked with who was a coach-type figure. A few months later, I saw her making out with one of my coworkers off the side of the parking lot. I think she may be crashing at his place now. This caused no butthurt with me, since I’m pretty sure he and I were already Eskimo Brothers, but the embarrassment she exuded after that was priceless.

She had also mentioned somewhere along the way that she’d been molested as a child by a family member. This was another red flag I chose to ignore, and she’s since displayed the classic signs of attention-whoring, it leads me to believe that she was full of shit. Without listing all of the red pill truths that were on prominent display after that, I will say that herc oup-de-grace was ruining one of the most feminine qualities she had by shaving the side of her head.

It was like observing a hypothetical situation someone would pose to a fledgling red-piller about how bat shit insane even the most normal-seeming girls can end up being.

Frame = Success

I provide the above anecdote not in vain self-flagellation, but as a cautionary tale to players old and new. I let circumstances rattle my frame for just a moment, and paid the expected price. Luckily I’m a man: I’ve since replaced my harem with a whole new stable of fillies, and I’m content in my knowledge that this is one lesson I won’t have to re-learn. If there’s one truth that a man can’t forget, it’s to ALWAYS maintain your frame. If you do, you can expect success with women, and in life.

175 thoughts on “A Story About Why You Should Never Lose Your Frame”

  1. I think your biggest mistake was getting involved personally with someone in your professional circle.

  2. Sometimes mistakes are made….slip ups happen. It can be how you handle it.
    Cutting it off is the best thing you could do in this situation.

  3. Biggest mistake was dealing with a woman in such a way. Mistakes happen, we’ve all been there. It’s important to read experiences like this and make sure your frame is always tight. Keep improving yourself, and leave these asset using cunts to live with their cats or useless mangina hipsters.

    1. About two weeks of my time (irreplaceable), most of my harem (replaceable), and 10-12 oz of semen (replaceable). But that’s about it.

      1. I think there’s more to this. I think there are feelings here that you are not admitting or are glossing over.
        I feel like this chick could still cause you damage at work. The fact that she is messing around with another coworker means she is big trouble. She is an unprofessional liability to your workplace. The sooner you are rid of her the better. I wouldn’t doubt that she pulled something similar at her other job and wore out her welcome there. Good luck and keep one eye on this bitch.

        1. Nope. He and I were already eskimo brothers, doesn’t really matter. She left town since her life was imploding, mostly due to her being unstable and irresponsible. Good looking out, though.

  4. Some thoughts:
    1. In the future, you’re helping the *company* (and yourself) by mentoring. But try to mentor someone who understands that loyalty is NOT a character flaw. Y’know, a MAN.
    2. Why is it that the military is apparently blue-pill heaven? I tend to think it’s b/c there are too many Congress-twats interfering with shit. Anybody with a vagina needs to be kept the hell OFF the Armed Services committee.
    Ex. Barbara Boxer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrpFSfpXD50
    3. At work, I would keep it Professional, but not “Silent Treatment”, lest you (a) appear to be “Joe Butthurt” and/or (b) someone decides to whine to HR, the Agony Aunt for the Talentless Female.
    À bientôt,

    1. 1) I was asked to help this individual, it wasn’t really a choice.
      2) Umm, how many days have you spent in the military? I assure you it is not a blue-pill haven, at least in combat units.
      3) The idea of HR where I work is a laughable concept. It is a small business run and staffed exclusively by men. In this case, the silent treatment was professional. I don’t think anyone really noticed, anyways.

      1. Your Old Uncle Mistral is simply here to help, and nudge you (the “general” you) in the right direction; don’t take anything I say personally, unless it’s clearly intended that way. Also, my commentary is usually formulated with the idea that other folks may be reading–and hopefully profit from–it.
        That said, in the order presented.
        1. I’m fairly certain that what you did went well above and beyond what you were obligated to do b/c your boss (or whomever) asked you to show her the ropes. File–as it apparently has been–under “Lessons Learned”.
        2. I just call balls and strikes. In fact, you yourself referred to your military background (thank you for your service), when you said, “…I saw a damsel in distress and my inculcation as a military leader kicked in, and there I was with my Captain Save-a-Ho cape flapping in the breeze.” I’m not trying to break your balls, but I see what I see.
        3. I only know what you tell me. I have no idea if your company’s revenue is $5K or $5B. People are going to see how you carry yourself, and better to be the guy who keeps it professional.
        À bientôt,

        1. Mistake No1. No control over your-self due to a piece of pussy.
          Mistake No2. Getting involved with a co-worker.
          Mistake No3. Trying to be captain save-a-hoe. No bitch deserves that unless she’s family.
          You always must maintain control over yourself in every single situation. Learn to read social situations more , women thrive on them and exploit them to the max.
          & remember gentlemen, the 3 C’s :

      2. He said he was an officer in the navy. I would actually believe that it is more blue pill than you think. Comisioned officers tend to work in a more “office” type enviroment.

        1. While most of the time you’d be spot on in your estimation, I spent the majority of my career in all-male units. I spent more time sleeping in open-bay barracks and tents than I did in offices.

        2. I have noticed a slight disdain for officers amongst the enlisted. I mentioned to a former female private that my father was a commissioned officer and she pulled a face. (btw this same woman pulled the race card and the female card, sued her former employer and then became a stripper). I didn’t go into details but my father started out enlisted at the age of 18 and got his commission about 10 years later.

        3. Good thing you didn’t go into details,she sounds like the type who would’ve ended up stalking your dad if she could.

  5. I too slipped up recently, this is definitely something I needed to read. Just dusted myself off, and made plans to see two fresh girls today. Thank you goyo for putting me back in an alpha mood. Will definitely internalize this

    1. It does (and can) happen to any man.
      Just be thankful (younger guys especially) that ROK is here for you.
      At any time, you can always “right the ship”.

      1. Your completely right, found the red pill at 19 going on 20, haven’t looked back since. Went from being a virgin until 20, to working towards my 8th notch, 21 now. Sometimes you have to hit these rough waters to remind yourself the basics of “sailing”. I am grateful for Roosh, ROK, and the whole manosphere community.

        1. Glad we are here to help. Many of us didn’t have it years ago to help us (we just knew something was off).
          It’s why, today, I spend so much time on here helping out. I try to share my experience with other guys to help avoid the bullshit that I went through in the past. Anyone can be “knocked off their game” for the short term – even Alphas – because our society has been infected with the feminist plague.
          Balance needs to be restored in order for us to progress.

  6. Do you think if you’d maintained frame, and been more aloof with her, she wouldn’t have friendzoned you? Or are you just annoyed with yourself for not realising earlier that she wasn’t worth your time, and was just using you?

    1. Mostly annoyed at letting my kind nature get the better of my judgement. Shouldn’t have let her crash at my place, shouldn’t have fucked her. The friend-zoning didn’t cause butthurt as much as it did disbelief. Plus, the delicious schadenfreude that’s happened while watching as her life inevitably imploded in on itself pretty much negated any bad feelings I had.

      1. Living Well, while not popular as an opera plot, really is the best revenge.
        À bientôt,

      2. Thanks for writing that up. A good reminder to never let one’s guard down and maintain frame always.
        I’ve messed up much more than that in the past, like a lot of guys here. I’m going to be sticking to it from here on out.

  7. but I saw a damsel in distress
    Everyone screws up once in a while when they see that. Aside from the fact that being their protector is built into our genetic code, it was also taught to us by the men before us who taught us how to live that you help a woman when she needs it.
    That’s a lot to overcome to start letting the women flounder without helping them. Everyone’s bound to screw up once in a while.
    We learn wisdom from failure much more than from success. We often discover what will do, by finding out what will not do; and probably he who never made a mistake never made a discovery.
    – Samuel Smiles

    1. So, about this ‘damsel in distress’ thing…the gist of what I am getting from this site is that a woman who behaves like a man is unattractive, but some men react to the damsel in distress thing. So, as a woman, I have roadside assistance & always hire movers. Does this mean I am being too “man like” or is the real issue here that she “friend zoned” him? Plus, if he already had sex with her, what was the problem? Did he want her for a relationship? He dropped all his other women so what did he want? Surely, the boss only expected him to help her in a work-related capacity, so did he want her sexually from the beginning but just wasn’t honest with himself? Would he have been so helpful to her if she hadn’t been a potential piece of ass? Enquiring minds want to know.

      1. I started reading, but it was a giant single paragraph so I stopped.
        However, I am wondering how having road assistance would make you man like?

    1. Note the dude with the clipboard in the above video, meatgazing the guy in the skivvies. Just an observation. Even his mouth is open a little.

  8. Thank goodness you did not get slapped with a sexual harassment suit! Glad you learned your lesson. You sound like a nice guy.

  9. I’ve noticed this about military people too. In the military, everything is regimented. They want you to kill without thinking, so they break you of all critical thinking.
    If you go military, you better go career and serve your 20, because once you leave, the real world will eat you alive.
    I made the mistake of hiring someone with a military background once. Sadly, I had to show him the door a few months later. He just didn’t know how to handle complex situations, and he was a little like a union worker doing “work to rule”. I should have known better. I’ll be more careful next time.

    1. I’ve seen this time and time again. The biggest dolts ( along with betas) I’ve ever met were in the army. There was nothing the neo-cons could do wrong, nothing their fat wives couldn’t demand, and the insignificant posturing was constant. Bunch of lemmings fighting over who is the most ” high speed,” completely ignoring that a quarter of the platoon is suicidal. And they still accept it. VA fucks em over, and that seems to just increase their fervor. I was talking online to an old buddy about the pilot who was suspended due to breaking up an obscene make out between two lesbo soldiers. And even in this repugnant case, my old friend still backed the army policy. Shame.
      What a clusterfuck. Every day I’m happy I’m not back there lol.

    2. I don’t think that’s true if you enter with an already formed personality. My father was a Marine, and then in the Navy, and he’s about as easy going, sane and happy as a man can be at his age. I’m former military, and pretty sure my critical thinking faculties and self-direction survived intact, in fact I’m pretty sure they sharped up by noting the crap life of a soldier and wanting to not continue in that career.

    3. Sorry to disagree with the generalisation, but what military? Every military guy I ever encountered/worked with/hired (who wasn’t a slackmaster in the service) was superior to the softer civilian versions.

  10. Sorry, man. But more of us here are still active in the service than you think. I’m calling bullshit on the “my naval officer leadership instinct training kicked in…”. No, it didn’t. Your testicles kicked in and ‘strongly suggested’ that you do what you did for the hopeful exchange of sex with this woman, otherwise you wouldn’t have been so stupid. The Navy isn’t to blame, your training isn’t to blame. Your bad game is to blame. We’ve all been there. Just own up to it, like a man. Plenty of articles written on this site sharing the exact same sentiment WITHOUT blaming something/someone else (what women do, btw)

    1. I’m guessing you and I have a different experience of service. I also expect our respective indoctrination was quite different. I was never ‘trained’ to feel responsible for people; it happened after years of having sailors put in my charge and taking them to dangerous places. I feel like I made it clear that in the beginning, my testicles weren’t involved. But I do appreciate your concern, and thanks for your service.

      1. I learned as a teen not to try to be a hero.
        I tried to help a male friend out in a tight spot, wound up on the floor being baseball batted (by this same friend) and kicked in the head by numerous others. Point being, never try to help anyone unless its your children.
        I also learned not to go to the ground in a street fight.

        1. I’m not certain that one bad experience (mind you, a fucked up one by the way you explain it) justifies a complete withdrawal from friendly actions towards *male friends*. I have helped friends and family many times and only been screwed over hard once that I can remember. Just an observation, obviously your life, your choice.

        2. What I’ve observed is that some of these guys can be bitches too. Advice is freely given (and half these guys disregard it after asking for it) but that’s my limit. It seems a lot of these “guys” want you to solve their problem for them.

        3. that’s what ayn rand advised. a lot of people think she said you should never help, but she buried “help people if you feel like it” somewhere in the 70-page john galt monologue that almost no one actually reads.

      2. Btw the picture of Don Draper is instructive. He is a guy who constantly loses his frame to women.

        1. Yes he does. interestingly enough he owns in the male sphere, yet as you pointed out, he is owned in the feminine sphere. While fictitious he is a good example of what not to do.

      3. Goyo I agree with you – as a Marine Corps veteran I absolutely understand what you mean. It’s taken a conscious effort on my part and a lot of time, to alter my thinking just a little bit to be more selfish (maintain frame), for lack of a better word.

      1. Our mistakes are more instructive than our successes. This story and stories like these help to illustrate truths better than vague hypotheticals about human behavior.

    2. I agree. We all make mistakes. But as Umbra suggested, you need to own up to them. No “Oh, my military training kicked in”-type excuses. Don’t puss out and go 50 percent toward the fault line. Go the distance. Just admit you wanted some vagina and thought, regardless of whatever training/schooling you may possess, that this would be the way to do it. No doubt going the distance is harder, and hurts more, and requires a brutal evaluation of self most people don’t want to even come close to, but the payoff is worth it.

    3. To be fair to Goyo, my experience as an infantryman in the army is that they encourage heavily blue pill thinking among men, and also early marriage, to keep guys needy for pay.
      The navy might be different. But the biggest white knights I’ve ever met were in the army. I’m talking Sir Ivanhoe and Robin Hood types. And it seemed to be encouraged. I do think that to a certain extent ” alpha” can be problematic, especially with all the hurry up and wait/ate up bs coming down the careerist chain of command.

      1. I do agree that the military incentivizes marriage to the detriment of everyone. My rule was no one that worked for me was allowed to get married before they were 30.

        1. Could you not argue that it makes sense to get married and have children early on if you are in the military? After all, you stand a good chance of dying or being seriously incapacitated young.

        2. Absolutely not. He is probably NSW and consequently inaccessible 3/4ths of the time. Divorce rates are astronomical is those units. Marriage is extremely burdensome on both family and unit as there isn’t enough time to adequately commit to both so generally at least one suffers. There is also the issue of compartmentalizing job (especially the dangerous variant) from family that men had difficulties with. Single, young, and unattached is by far the preferred status.

        3. Haha, while I agree with your sentiment, there isn’t any authority to prevent service members from getting married.

        4. Hardly ever pans out. Every guy I knew who got married while enlisted ended up divorced within 2 years, no exceptions. The few guys I knew who came in pre-married ended up having horrible marriage problems, especially if they were deployed off base for any length of time. Army wives cheating like nobody’s business, even more than the female norm, is not a stereotype but rather an observed fact.
          Maybe it’s the age most guys enlist (18-ish) that’s to blame, but it’s difficult to see how the circumstances of the military and multiple deployments make a young marriage have a decent chance of survival.

        5. “Army wives cheating like nobody’s business, even more than the female norm, is not a stereotype but rather an observed fact.”
          I can’t tell you how distressing it was to me to find this out, and I wasn’t even married at the time! But yeah, young women surrounded by young, (mostly) fit young men who have been conditioned to get their blood up, and then factor in that the husbands are away for extended periods and, well…

        6. It sounds to me like the issue is joining the military rather than being married. If you join the army then it is really important to have kids before you get dead or completely fucked up. Clearly, joining the military screws up your ability to make good choices. Quite why someone would volunteer for four years of slavery is beyond me.

        7. Include being unattached to the military in that. I’d rather be divorced paying child support than sat in a chair missing two legs and an arm.

        8. The military, today, is very different vs. the military 20 to 25 years ago.
          So much stupid shit is now acceptable in it where as years ago you wouldn’t have had that shit (there wouldn’t even have been a discussion about it).
          SOPs and just about everything else had to change to cater to this new “fighting force” – women.
          And that’s the problem….there was nothing wrong with the old one.

        9. No, you can’t. It makes no sense at all considering the number of men in uniform who end up divorced due to being away from their families for extended periods of time.

        10. There’s a reason I got out and have avoided the defense industry. It’s because the work is completely pointless and loses its appeal when you aren’t young anymore.

        11. I wouldn’t say that at all. The problem is joining an institution which is going to send you away for long periods of time, and expecting your family to pull through. During war time, ok, what can you do, but coming into the military at age 18 and hitched, or hitching while in the military, is a noob mistake.
          The military didn’t cause me to make a decision to get married while hitched, nor to consider it, it was clear as a bell that this was a bad idea. In fact, it was an openly discussed topic during many a road march or patrol, namely, “Why da fuq would Sanders get married to that bitch, damn man, she was doing half the regiment just last year!” Most of us knew the score, only a few hopeless pathetic types took the plunge. And paid.

        12. The rule used to be that if the Marines wanted you to have a wife – they would have issued you one. I have been out for quite some time and don’t know if that’s still the case.

        13. “Single, young, and unattached is by far the preferred status.”
          True.. Until it comes time to re-enlist, which almost no bachelor (at least in the Marines) ever does. To keep the turnover rate from being so high they can’t fill senior enlisted positions, they need people to get married and have kids so that they have no choice but to reenlist. To further this agenda they constantly drill in the fear that “you’ll never make it in the civilian world!”

        14. Here’s what it comes down to. Four years of bullshit, then four years of tuition free college, along with living stipends.

        15. I don’t think most careerists make the best combatants. Not to say only one-and-done guys are the most ideal. More that those who are more concerned with their careers than anything else tend to be too risk-averse to accomplish missions.

      2. But the biggest white knights I’ve ever met were in the army. I’m talking Sir Ivanhoe and Robin Hood types. And it seemed to be encouraged.

        Absolute, 100% truth right there. The Army is hands down the worst when it comes to clueless men.

        1. Glad to have someone agree for once. Usually all I get are soldiers throwing a fit and deflecting, not realizing that I’m a former infantryman AND recovering bitch beta myself, and that I’m actually trying to help these fools.
          Thanks again.

    4. I would add to it the military is HIGHLY discouraging of fraternization within the same units so that should have led him to avoiding a personal connection with this woman.

    5. In all fairness do not discount military training, it is a type of brainwashing. Soldiers are not taught to think but to act mindlessly in a selfless way. He will probably react to certain situations without thinking for the rest of his life.

  11. I think there are two concepts here. One is about women. And another is helping people in general.
    Personally, and within my circle of friends I have seen a lot of these: “I am in trouble and have no place to stay” situations. (Especially when I was college age, as half of my friends had their shit together, and the other half did not.) There is nothing wrong with helping people out of kindness, and giving them a place to stay: man or woman. The ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY thing is you must negotiate HARD limits as soon as they move in. This means, either they are required to pay rent after a month or so. Or better yet, they are only allowed to crash for a predetermined reasonable time. After that they have to move out no matter what. If you don’t put a deadline, it is easy for these people to slack off, especially since they are usually the type that does not have their shit together. Eventually, this will end in a fight and a loss of friendship. A hard deadline is better for them in the long term, and better for the friendship.

  12. 1. Never help a woman move unless she’s a relative or you’re having sex with her.
    2. If you two are “friends” and not having sex, ask yourself if her behavior would be excusable if she was a man. If you’d call out a guy friend for the same shit, then call her out, too.
    3. Learn to detach from your emotions. You are not your feelings. The way you feel about 90% of stimuli is preconditioned. It’s all in your upbringing. If someone pisses you off, irritates you, etc…recognize the response and be aware of it from a third-party perspective and watch it pass by.
    These are all things that you have to walk through fire to learn. That third one, though…it’s saved me from flying off the handle or being manipulated. I haven’t gotten mad at anyone for years because of it.

  13. Is there an rok article on the classic signs of attention whoring? The best definitions I get I don’t think cover the spectrum.

  14. We are all betas here. We are merely learning “alpha” behavior because beta behavior is no longer rewarded by Western society. Your slip up is expected, but your regrouping is what sets you apart: you realized your mistake and are learning from it. Good job, my friend.

  15. So you’re mad that a woman paid you with sex so she could stay at your place. You really must be new to this.

    1. Paid him with sex then immediately friendzoned him. I think you missed the “friendzoned” part, mate. That was the real mistake he was lamenting, that he displayed all of the behaviors that changed his frame from being the man in charge to being a “guy” who orbits the poor damsel in distress.

      1. That is usually how it goes though… I enjoy a lot of articles, i actually lurk daily, but as much as you guys get on here and comment about humping and dumping and all that i thought you would be glad to get paid in sex. You really had to put no work into and you basically caught feelings over nothing. I’ve had plenty of girls pay with sexual favors for giving them a ride somewhere or a place to crash and that was the only exchange we had ever had. Yall need to stop being such wimps

        1. I don’t go on about pump and dump, thanks. I’m the married guy most take issue with.

        2. But yall preach an “alpha” vibe and this article is probably the most un “alpha” thing i have read. If you’re catching feelings for a girl who’s life is so messed up she’s crashing on your couch and her only form of reparation is to pay you with sex you need to get out more.

        3. Your blanket is cast wide and far, padewah.
          If you’re catching feelings for a girl who’s life is so messed up she’s crashing on your couch and her only form of reparation is to pay you with sex you need to get out more.
          Which is saying the same thing as reacting to being “friendzoned”. Which is, scroll up and look, exactly what I said. Which is precisely what he said was *his* mistake.
          You’re so busy trying to pick a fight that you’re not paying attention to detail.

        4. I’m not picking a fight, i’m wondering why an article like this would end up on a website entitled “return of kings”. You are comforting him on a mistake that i have known not to make since i was 16, i’m 26 now. That’s cool he realized what he did and is attempting to correct it but you should have figured that stuff out before you got out of your teens. I would apply this logic to anyone not just a female. People in desperate times do desperate things. The way it sounds to me, the man got her a job, gave her a place to crash, and then she gave him sex as payment. That is pretty clear cut and if you didnt see that coming from a mile away then damn

        5. Also if she’s already hooking up with another co worker she’s doing 1 of, if not all of 3 things. Homie hopping, finding a better lay, or finding a guy she thought was a step up.

        6. This site is written for more than you and I, it is also written for men, even young men, who have not in fact figured this out yet. There is no shortage of teenaged young men on this site and young 20 somethings who are just waking up.
          The way it sounds to me, the man got her a job, gave her a place to crash, and then she gave him sex as payment.
          And none of that was the problem, the problem was dropping his harem and getting cheesed that she friendzoned him. And hence the warning tone of the article.
          That is pretty clear cut and if you didnt see that coming from a mile away then damn
          Absolutely agree, and that’s the warning in the article, basically.

        7. Or, she’s just a shameless horndog – shameless because she rides the office carousel.

        8. To women, the guy they’re currently fucking is the “best lay.” It’s part of their inherent narcissism. They say the guy they’re fucking now is the best, and tell all their friends to make out she has the best guy in the universe. It’s never about the guy, it’s always about her. So again who gives a fuck what women say.
          Anyway seems like you’ve taken the red pill a long time ago, which is good. But this article is aimed at men who haven’t quite got there yet and are still struggling with the whole “Captain save a ho” thing.

        9. There is much to take away from this article and all of the comments, agree.
          Younger guys (who still have much life to live) are always going to spout “how they would have done things” or “how someone else fucked up”.
          Ever try to tell a younger guy something (drop a little wisdom on them) – the result – they know better (and I laugh).
          Sometimes, you just have to let them learn the hard way.
          That “right” woman who hits all of the right buttons comes along and any man can steer off course.

        10. Yeah, trying to offer any advice, even if they ask for it, to most young men is a trial at best.

  16. God. I remember my beta days. I allowed a female friend (shut up…I know) to stay at my apartment (shut up….I know) for free (goddammit, I know!). I even slept in the same bed with her and got NO action, barely even a “Thank you”. Jesus, I have a disgusting taste in my mouth right now. Oh well, sometimes you gotta learn the hard way and ROK wasn’t around 10 years ago.

    1. All i can do is laugh to myself when i think back to those days.. but it’s the only way you really learn.

    2. Who knows, look at the bright side, you learned a lesson and maybe you’re the only guy she “slept with” who didn’t get that nasty STD she’s sporting?

  17. “After I calmed her down, she explained that she’d been kicked out of the house she’d be living in.”
    Bam. Right there is a major red flag. People don’t evict housemates who are at least tolerable, because there are so many nutbars out there. The devil you know is better than the devil you dont, unless that devil is very devilish indeed.
    The situation is: people who live with this person on a day-to-day basis, who know her about as well as anybody can know another in today’s atomised world, have said “screw it – we’ll take a chance on a stranger rather than continue to live with you.”
    Don’t ignore the red flags.

    1. That is a good point and a good flag: kicked out of house, apt, etc…
      Younger guys need to look for this one at all times. You never know the truth because you’re only hearing her side of it. She may have been kicked out of many homes (on a regular basis) for many different reasons.
      Besides the obvious flags (tats and shaved head) this one flag could save you much time and money. Always look (and listen) for it.

      1. Back when I was younger, I moved into a house where a chick held the lease. She mentioned that for some mysterious, completely inexplicable reason, no-one ever stayed there very long. “This place has a revolving door on it!”
        Wish I had a Tardis.
        Never do business with a chick.
        Never rent off a chick.
        Never move into a group house where a chick holds the lease.

  18. You lost only little time and money on that little hoe. The 7 Army Values are only to be used when dealing with men and some women who are complete strangers. That’s the trap that a whole generation of GIs are falling into only to realize that for female minds the 7 Army Values might just as well read as the 7 Beta Tells.
    Women have to be dealt with a different set of Values: Heartiste’s 16 Commandments of Poon and Rollo Tomassi’s Bible “The Rational Male”. It’s not even women’s fault – we as men have just been lied about on how to deal with them. As a soldier your relationship with your woman should rather look like this – then both of you will be happy:

    1. Indeed. Learning from mistakes and applying the lessons learned is one of the marks of a man.

  19. What an obvious “beta”…
    Guys, you cannot fake “alphaness”. You either are an Alpha or you are not. And most of those writting these articles are NOT.

    1. Very few men are natural alphas, of those that are a good percentage are sociopaths/psychos, and a small sliver otherwise are decent men (not in a female “good” way, I mean they won’t fuck over man and woman alike for thrills).
      This entire movement is teaching men to learn how to actually start being men again. Walking in and snarking like a little bitch at men who are in the process of self improvement makes you out to be a nihilistic dork. Get a better perspective on life and learn how to celebrate the fact that men are waking up from the Matrix, and try to contribute something other than sneers.

      1. True Alphas are rare… especially nowadays…
        A true alpha in my mind is someone like Conan the Barbarian. Life and opportunity just flows out of this man. Betas join him in his quest because he has purpose and the blood of a king.
        Conan is not a psychopath. Sure he can be brash and arrogant at times. But he also has a sense of loyalty to his men who stick by him. He rules through leadership not through tyranny.
        An alpha has within him the means to spark a civilization.
        I see no shame in being loyal to an alpha. His genetics are superior, best to breed with his daughters and create genetic diversity with an honourable creature.
        A psychopath/sociopath, while having some characteristics similar to alphas, does not have this quality within him. Psychopaths can only really exist when civilization has already come together. They prey on the necessary community sense of humans, they are not on their own the birthplace of man.

        1. An alpha has within him the means to spark a civilization.
          Yes. There’s more to being an alpha than just banging a barslut in the bathroom and not returning her text the next day.
          Alphas are leaders of men.

        2. I absolutely agree. The problem is that some of the manosphere seem to insist that alpha is defined solely by the number of vaginas that a man has put his penis into. They place the outcomes of being an actual alpha into the only entry in the requirements slot. That’s a mistake. An alpha gets pussy because he exemplifies the best of being a man, in a masculine sense. The pussy is one of the rewards, not the only qualification.
          And this is why skeezy sleazeballs with “douchebag game” ain’t alpha. They get pussy, but couldn’t lead the blind if they had the only working set of eyes in the building, have very little control over their own lives outside of pussy, and generally come off as somewhat pathetic.

        3. True Alphas are very rare. It’s a product of the post world war era. The majority of “educators” in our school system are women, are fathers work long hours and we are raised by mothers, the rise of feminism and social change all conspire to suppress masculinity, resulting in very few true alpha men. We are conditioned from birth to believe that being male is wrong. This is where this site and these articles are so important to us regaining our masculinity. It’s a long road

        4. Bingo. You shouldn’t judge your worth, happiness, or “alphaness” on another person, least of all how many sluts you bang.

  20. I would not beat myself up over this. Yes you felt like you lost frame but you learned your lesson and got some good sex out of the equation. Yeah you had to pay for it by giving her transport and lodging but isn’t that what whores and prostitutes do?: exchange sex for pennies/goods.
    Listen: all women are whores.
    You best get used to this brother. Every arrangement you have with these women is gonna amount to this on some level. The difference is they don’t see anything wrong with it.
    But you are right about another thing, just keep your frame and act on your own whims not hers

    1. Even the best of marriages come down to this. If a husband can’t provide for his wife/kids, then in her eyes, he’s worthless.

      1. True, long term. A wife will tolerate a momentary lapse in employment, if it isn’t frequent or terribly wrong. For example, losing a job on a Friday and having interviews lined up by Monday or Tuesday the next week; they tend to go with the flow. Sit on the couch for months scratching your crotch though, without a generous amount of savings and investments which gives you the opportunity to enjoy a bit of off time leisure however, and suddenly she’s out the door mumbling something about feeewings and not being haaaaaapy. Guaranteed.

  21. I’ve read what I’m about to say in a few comments, but I want to say it again so the message gets through:

  22. Thanks for sharing this all too common blunder. It’s true you can’t be angry at people who screw you over when you have allowed it to happen every step of the way anymore than you can be angry at a jellyfish when it stings you.
    For all the rage the feminist media spews at straight white males we are the prime target for professional victims of all stripes because of our sense of decency, honesty, and charity towards others.

    1. Agreed. The last 100 years or so we’ve had our general kindness and culturally instilled goodness weaponized against us.

      1. Agreed too. Those values are still worthwhile but we must be selective about their application lest we grant kindness to those who would waste it.

        1. As harsh as it may seem, being cunning, physically appealing, social, of influence, and being tall are all key features of an attractive male. Kindness, while appreciated, without the coldness gotten from being cunning, persistent, and shrewd, can be made appealing on its own, or with the added spice of kindness.
          If you are kind or operate out of kindness without displaying any of the other features of an attractive man, she will look down on you, work to exploit your kindness, and soon as she sees you aren’t cunning, persistent, shrewd, in a way that protects yourself first, she will use you and ditch for a better product. Thanks to other mangina, there isn’t a shortage of free resources.
          EDIT: Be kind only after you learn the power of being cunning, shrewd and persistent.

        2. Unlike a man, a girl will forgive you for practically anything as long as you don’t show weakness.

        3. Don’t bitch about shit. Just do shit. Do what you do righteously. Deal with your pain on your own.
          I hope I’m wrong but I think this is the truth.

  23. Friend of mine married while back. Only after he split up with his hose bag wife did he tell me all the damage this woman had going on up in her head…. familial abuse, abortion (with a guy in our sphere of friends), etc, etc. The thing about my friend is he is a “good guy”, held up women on a pedestal, all the typical beta stuff but then could turn alpha given the right circumstances.
    His line of work (hospitality) led him to believe that he could make a difference to the sick persons life. He was a problem solver but unfortunately some of these women are so damaged there is no way on earth of “curing” them…. there will always be something else.
    The best thing for men to do is to quarantine these sickos or GET THE FUCK out of these harpies lives. Live life for YOU not for her borderline personality disorder. The split second she shows any bad behaviour leave or throw her out, make sure you are covered, accommodation, job, etc.
    Believe me I know… took me 6 years….. and thousands…. you don’t get it back…

    1. “Live life for YOU not for her borderline personality disorder.”
      Aw fuck yeah man! That’s an awesome quote. And it’s what I’ve found to be mostly true of women these days. The media (controlled by women these days) holds up examples of Borderline’s, and everyday little girls are exposed to their shitty, slutty behaviour. I 100% agree with you, GET THE FUCK OUT!!

    2. That’s the real problem we have today with “good guys”. They’ve been programmed through society, MSM, parents, etc…to do “the right thing”.
      Well, many times that “right thing” doesn’t always equal a man’s “best interest”.
      That is truly where the rubber meets the road, guys. Realize it and you’ll be better off in the future.

  24. Not 15 minutes before I read this article I stopped at the 7-Eleven right down the street from my place for my early morning cup of coffee. I cordially struck up conversation with the cashier (6 in her work clothes, maybe a 7 with makeup, skirt, and heels, she might be in her early to mid 20s) as I do every morning. I decided to go off road and ask another question aside from the regular pleasantries to break up the monotony of making my coffee:
    Me: So you’re here all night, eh?
    Her: Yeah, 11 to 7 almost every day, but I like it.
    Me: I’ve worked graveyard before…didn’t like it.
    Her: I would probably like this shift more if I didn’t have to walk an hour to get here.
    I drew a bead on that beta bait the second it came from her mouth and didn’t acknowledge it in the least. I simply slid my card, wished her a good day as I did every morning, and bounced.
    5 years ago I would have been compelled to go into Captain Save-A-Ho mode and offered some sort of help. And why wouldn’t I? My male hamster would have thought “I’ve seen this chick just about every day for the past 6 months. We seem to have a solid patron/retailer relationship. What would the harm have been to give her a lift now and again?” We all know the laundry list of reasons why and that’s why sites like this exist.
    You slipped, recognized that you fucked up and (luckily) got out of the situation relatively clean. Good for you because the situation you got yourself in could have gone sideways in a hurry. You’re still playing with fire by allowing her to remain employed there but then again, you did strike the match when you lost frame. Keep your head on a swivel because you never know when this could potentially blow up in your face.

    1. We need to make “Captain Save-A-Ho ” an actual character, with a little suit and everything…..a whole comic strip…..I see him kinda scrawny, but not too much so, white suit?, buck teeth, glasses most likely, I dunno. He comes to a ho’s aid for silly little everyday inconveniences such as your ho above, lifts to a fro, picking up groceries, buying her call credit when she doesn’t have any small change, etc, etc…..

      1. Im thinking the whiny Arthur character from the Tick cartoon. Thats a good starting pt.
        maybe add a beard and a tattoo sleeve to make him current??

      2. That is a great idea…
        I imagine something like the Road Runner and Wiley Coyote.. Where the white-knight gets completely fucked over every episode but just keeps on trying.
        I bet RoK would be willing to host such animated shorts.

  25. Without listing all of the red pill truths that were on prominent display after that, I will say that her coup-de-grace was ruining one of the most feminine qualities she had by shaving the side of her head.
    What the fuck is with that anyhow? Tatts and shaved heads, like they’re all trying to emulate male Marines. And many think it is attractive and is conducive to attracting men. My god how awful that shaved head thing looks, I openly laugh at and treat women who do that like inferiors. Screw them and their mangina orbiters, somebody has to deliver the message.

    1. It is my frequent observation, as I meander through life, that people who disfigure themselves with tats and non-standard piercings (or “shrapnel”, as I call it), or excessively short hair (for women) are doing so b/c they want to “share” their pain with others, and cannot (or will not) verbalize it.
      As an example, I know a 22 y.o. woman who keeps adding to her tattoo collection. Why? Any guesses? Shitty relationship with daddy. She’s bright enough to understand this, so I told her, “I’m going to tell your dad to hug you and tell you he loves you every day for a month so you can stop getting these awful tattoos”….
      À bientôt,

    2. I like the shaved head thing. Not only does it look hideous, it’s like a giant neon warning sign, “Woman with issues ahead”.
      Same with tats.
      I appreciate warning signs.

      1. Right, yeah, I understand that it’s a Jim dandy warning sign. I just don’t get the mindset, and I don’t mean logic driven, I mean the feminine emotional side. What sane woman would “Feeeeeel” that any sane man would find her looking like a dwarf Marine was attractive?
        But yeah, warning sign, definitely.

        1. I think it’s just a continuation of their rebellion against their feminine nature. They’ve convinced themselves in every other way that the old feminine ways were oppressive and that acting like men is what they should be doing. Deep down they know it’s stupid, but they want to prove they won’t be oppressed.
          Of course, men don’t like short hair which is why strippers, escorts and strippers above the streetwalker level, and some porn stars have some of the sexiest hair in the entire world, but that’s just patriarchy…or something.
          If men really found short hair and/or shaved heads attractive, strippers would all be sporting pixie cuts with parts of their heads shaved.

        2. They’ve convinced themselves in every other way that the old feminine ways were oppressive and that acting like men is what they should be doing. Deep down they know it’s stupid, but they want to prove they won’t be oppressed.
          Do you honestly think that they put that much thought into it? Seems way too logical, based on the dwarf Marines I have encountered. Most just seem to be extreme followers and when quizzed about their choices usually give some dopey inane answer “Because this tattoo represents my first child!” and “And this one represents that one time I took a trip to Cancun, just for me me me!” or “Betty got a nose piercing and it looked so cool I figured fuck it and got one too!” and other such drivel. Hair usually falls into “But you don’t think it’s cute?” to which a chorus of women (usually with longer hair) chime in on how it is in fact, so cute (culling the competition I suspect, women will be women).
          To be fair I have met a few ugly, shaved headed corporate bitches that curse like sailors and have the manners of a shit throwing chimpanzee who feel it is “empowering”. They are walked away from mid-sentence, to great effect, heh.

        3. Do you honestly think that they put that much thought into it?
          I think some do, most don’t. Most are extreme followers like you said. That thinking is not consciously being thought by everyone who gets their dopey pixie cut.
          The early adopters, yes…it was one of their first forms of outward rebellion against their inner natures.
          Collectively for feminism, yes, I think it’s a continuing form of their collective rebellion against their genetics. The leaders do it with the purpose of showing they won’t be feminine, so the followers do it but they don’t necessarily know why it’s being done.
          For many (probably most) individuals, no. It’s generally the stupid reasons you listed, but it’s foundations lay somewhere up the line in the leaders showing it was okay to want to be unfeminine.
          If that makes sense. Maybe it doesn’t. I don’t think your wrong about all the stupid, lemming reasons in most individual cases, but I don’t think that explains the behavior overall.

        4. Agree. It’s more of a “herd” mentality.
          “April shaved her head so I figured I would get it done, too”.
          And then they wonder why so many men aren’t attracted to them or don’t want to be seen with them.

        5. I wonder if they wonder though? There is no shortage of pussy whipped betas who will take even a midget Marine covered in tats, as long as (s)he has tits. We really need to work on these men and get their heads right with reality. But the fucking smell of pussy throws them totally out of control and reason most of the time, even when the pussy belongs to a dwarf Marine.

        6. Yes. Female covert competition.
          One of the most amusing comments I have ever seen from a girl, when asked why women are not honest with female friends:
          “why would I be honest with my friends? All that would do is encourage competition. I tell my fat friends they look good because I want them to stay fat.”
          Damn. NEVER believe a word from a woman.

    3. Shaved heads and tats on a woman should be the biggest “flag” to any man out there looking for a decent woman.
      These types of women either have something wrong with them (now), have had a fucked up past and (or) have become “attention seekers”.
      In the end, getting involved with this type of woman may be fun (short term) but it will cost you much time and money.

    4. Chicks with fleas shave their head, why would any guy take a woman who has shaved her head serious? And if she shaved her head because of fleas, she’s feral.

  26. “Instead of maintaining my frame as an alpha, I took on the role of orgasm-giver AND beta provider. ” – maybe because you are a beta by default and a wannabe alpha by frame? There is a misconception in this community, Being an alpha can’t be achieved by frame, it’s who you are inherently.

    1. BS. Part of every man’s inherent nature is to go ” special forces” to protect the weak. It’s there to ensure survival of his own offspring and chosen mate. Women know this and some have no hesitation trying to trigger this behaviour at the drop of a hat. This is about consciousness of your own self… even life long stoic men can fall for it occasionally. Live consciouslly at all times. Always ask yourself why you’re acting, and to what end. If there’s a silver lining to this, thank her for the reminder.

      1. Agree and good point. It’s the same as with any disaster or emergency.
        An example is a plane crash with survivors – how many women do you see lining up or designing a game plane to survivor until help arrives or find help?
        None. Women are not programmed in that manner. I’ve seen it time and time, again, with “mini” disasters at work or in life. I even had a female manager come to me asking “what should we do?” when things went a little south at work (funny, she’s the boss but she needs me to tell her how to fix it).

  27. It’s the same thing that I imagine happens with most readers on here and other manosphere sites. When it comes to chatting in the comments section they love going on about how Alpha they are and can maintain frame, when the reality is they are just starved of female attention at that moment in time so its easier to shout out about all these things they say they know. It’s like the weakling who says he could knock out the MMA dude when he isn’t around but shuts up the moment he walks in the room.
    I love the lessons about what a lot of these things stand for, but the sad reality is most men are one blowjob away from reverting back to their natural gamma selves.

    1. And you have what to back this up with? No doubt there is no shortage of paper tigers in the manosphere, but “most”? Gonna need hard evidence of that instead of a simple assertion.
      I suspect that most were beta at one time (or still are), but Gamma takes it to a whole new level of pathetic. Gonna need actual proof of that too Dimitri, since assertion just isn’t going to cut the mustard.

      1. I don’t really, considering I said it was something I imagine happens. Whether that holds true for the individual is for themselves to say, but you know you’ve seen it multiple times in the real world, haven’t you? It’s the same thing here.
        What everyone does here in their personal lives isn’t really any of my business, it was just a personal observation.

    2. “Starved of female attention”??
      Who gives a fuck? Females are the worst of humanity. I seriously don’t even pursue them anymore. I still head out with my mates, and I always get some slut grinding up against me. If I’m in the mood, then I’ll waste minimal time and impale the slut, then promptly get back to doing what I want. I don’t have time to waste on women, or lying around in some sluts filth all night.
      I was in the military as well, and the amount of cheating I saw from sluts as soon as their husband was sent away was astounding. There was even a slut who knocked on the doors of every male living on base who wanted as many cocks as she could.
      Anyway, this shit makes me angry. You do make a good point though, and if there are people on these sites who chase after women, then we need to educate them. Think of women generally as below you (which they are), and the irony is they will beg for your cock.

  28. Waaaaaaay too hard on yourself here. You saw someone in need and you helped them out. It’s one thing to be able to take a step back from that instinct and ask yourself if everything is above board here, but if you ever reach the point where you’ve become so cold and dead-eyed that your automatic response is indifference you’ll know you’ve sacrificed too much of yourself in order to remain in control all the time.

  29. He got used. What a tool. He gave her a job and free rent, and she’s sucking some other guys cock.

  30. Frame is one thing….. rules are another. You need to make a list and have it printed out and put into a picture frame. There are reasons why rules exist. Although you got a tad burned, you have once again re-established your reasons and logic and come out relatively unscathed.

  31. Good lesson. I’ve made the same mistake of asking myself, “why not lend a hand? You’d do it for a dude, after all.”
    It becomes apparent that what you would do to help another man has nothing to do with it. Women seem to inherently view good deeds as a sign of weakness….fuck ’em!

  32. @disqus_ejMKmVnzpd:disqus

    I did 5 deployments in 6 1/2 years, put off grad school, my family, marriage, and children because I believed focusing on my personal development as a leader was more important.

    Sounds like you didn’t really have a choice in the matter.

    1. Sure I did. Lots of young guys in the military get married (usually to their detriment) despite the constraints and difficulties therein. I have a good number of friends and peers that had a similar experience in the service, but some of them got married somewhere along the way. I’d say a little more than half of those dudes now have the added bonus of a divorce under their belt.

        1. I agree, which is why I didn’t do them. I could’ve snuck grad school in there, but decided doing another operational tour was a better use of my time.
          Yet plenty of guys opted to go the other way, and that’s cool too. My last operational tour was about 2 1/2 years long, and I spent probably 30% of that time actually sleeping in my own bed. Yet, in that wardroom of about 2 dozen dudes, only myself and 2 others weren’t married or engaged (the other 2 have since gotten married, so I stand alone).
          For a lot of guys, they want something to come home to besides and empty apartment. For others, they’re stuck in the Matrix and get caught up with some chick who seems like “The One”. It works out kinda ok for some of them, not so much for others.

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