Life

Your Internet Friends Can’t Duplicate Real-Life Human Connection

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Most of the knowledge you have is due to the internet. Public education in the West has failed to give you a proper understanding of the world or skills that would be useful for navigating through life, forcing you to educate yourself at your own pace and on your own terms. Through that, you have created bonds with other men in ad-hoc communities online. While the knowledge you have will be forever useful to you, the communities that sprout from these knowledge centers pale in comparison to real communities of the past. We can instantly access the minds of men through the internet, but we’re losing the ability to connect with them in person.

I came to understand how pervasive the internet is in my life when I imagined it going offline. What would happen if there were no more web pages, social networking, connected smartphones, or video-on-demand? Back to the “stone age” of programmed television and paper books. Perhaps more severe is that I’d lose touch with nearly every man I know. Outside of a couple dozen men whose phone numbers I have, my social world would collapse, and it would only be replaced by men who live in my city. No more trading advice, knowledge, and tips with men halfway around the world on a daily basis.

If the internet went offline, which thought leader would I follow to make me feel like I’m gaining critical value? How would I participate in online activism and meme wars with fellow e-warriors? How would I bathe in the glory of liberal tears with my online friends after angering feminists with a viral article? Where would I share a crazy piece of news with hundreds of men who share a similar belief system as I do? An audience of potentially tens of thousands would be reduced to three or four in my town, and it’s this realization that tells me it’s not friendships I’m developing online as much as the gratification that I’m a somebody who is making a difference, when really I’m just a communications node, a replaceable unit in a messenger chain.

I have used an app called Periscope, which allows me to broadcast live video from my smartphone. The biggest broadcast I’ve done had over 1,000 simultaneous viewers. Here’s what a room of 1,000 people look like.

During that broadcast, I was in my room, alone, talking at an screen to a faceless mass of people who I couldn’t see or touch. There was no genuine human connection, and if I wanted it at that moment, I would have found it easier to knock on my neighbor’s door, a man who I’ve seen but never properly met. If there was an external camera in the room filming me without sound, it would reveal a strange man talking to himself in front of a rectangle of plastic and glass.

Return Of Kings regularly gets 1 million unique visitors a month, a number that is greater than than the population of several dozen countries, but I don’t know exactly who those people are, and if you told me there was a mistake in the statistics, and that the site actually receives 1 billion unique visitors a month, I can’t fathom what difference that would make besides more advertising revenue.

No matter how many followers you have, how far your meme spreads, how many upvotes your comment gets, or how many pats on the back you get from the internet mob, you will remain deeply unsatisfied that these huge numbers—this powerful influence—is not human connection but merely a simulation of connection. Ultimately, you’re interacting with pixels and avatars, mere representations of real community, but never real itself. I’ll give you a million followers tomorrow, and within one month you will feel as disconnected as ever, because your true need is not a simulation of community but real community. A group of real friends in your town, who care about your safety and interests as deeply as you care about theirs, is worth more than millions of simulated friends, fans, or admirers on the internet.

Maintaining real communities and friends in person is hard. You can’t just “log off” when you want. You can’t shitpost or troll without repercussions. You have to sacrifice and accommodate to their needs. You have to be respectful to their feelings and particular insecurities, because you’d expect the same from them. One genuine friendship is harder to maintain than satisfying one thousand followers online where expectations and standards are lower, and where little is asked of you but to provide entertainment and sporadic insight.

The internet has given us much, but also made us reluctant to put in the work for real-life connections and to adapt to another person’s flaws and weaknesses, but we must try. As a man who has amassed thousands of internet followers, it’s the face-to-face interactions with those followers I love the most, because it transcends from the simulated to the real. Without them, I’m afraid I’d slowly lose my humanity in an online sea of a billions avatars that are human-like, but still far from it.

This article was originally published on Roosh V.

Read More: Are We Living In A Computer Simulation?

339 thoughts on “Your Internet Friends Can’t Duplicate Real-Life Human Connection”

    1. Consider yourself and your corn hole lucky as I was told by my SJW internet frends that Roosh rapes people, causes riots and doesn’t wash his hands before dinner. LMAO

  2. Unsettling that we have come to a point where this can be seriously pointed out in any capacity, much less necessary (the idea of internet “friends” is still alien to me).
    To paraphrase Nietzsche: The internet is an abyss, start worrying if you look into it and see it reflected back.

    1. ha. yup. next think you will be telling me is that the phoomy goonies can’t really take over the government by attacking the post office (ok…anyone who picks up this reference wins a kneeman gold star)

  3. For those of you who are tech savvy and can get a copy on line or who have access to either jstore or a college Library I think everyone should read an article by the brilliant and truly lovely Hubert Dreyfus called Kierkegaard on the Internet: Anonymity vs. Commitment in the Present Age.
    This article will be particularly wonderful if you already know anything about Kierkegaard, his ideas (even a basic outline) and the pseudonym project he conducted with his writing. Kierkegaard, in the kneeman’s opinion, is a top 5 guy when it comes to being smart on a time line dating back to the wheel and his authorship was nothing short of amazing considering the time and place especially.
    Dreyfus, who was the professor who was run out of MIT for telling the cog sci eggheads that computers will never think is a professor at Berkley (don’t let that sour you on him) and is both one of the brightest guys talking about the internet philosophically since there was an internet and a genuinely good person who I have met a few times over the years and instantly was impressed with.

    1. I used to agree with this until I bit the bullet and just admitted to myself that the world is markedly better if I treat people as means-to-an-ends rather than ends-in-themselves. Our whole lives we are told that all people have intrinsic value, but once you get past that and see people only as what value they bring to you interaction with them becomes a) more honest b) more fruitful c) less annoying and d) overall better

      2. Every human life begins with some inherent value. That value can be compounded or subtracted by the choices of that life. The same baby can become either the world’s greatest leech or a truly amazing person.
        But how in the hell am I supposed to know your value before we interact? If our interaction brings me benefit, I’ll consider you valuable, but if it costs me more than it gains me I’ll consider you toxic.
        Surprisingly few get these basic ideas.

        1. I don’t believe that human life begins with inherent value. A baby is only inherently valuable to their parents who have a biological imperative to value it. But let’s leave that to this side. I get we will disagree on it and that is ok with me because I can make my point allowing for the hypothetical (and imo incorrect) situation where you are right.
          Even if you are right that people have some kind of intrinsic value to them, this wasn’t what I was commenting on. I merely stated that human interaction becomes easier, more honest, more fruitful and generally better if we act as if the person we are talking to only has a value as regards its place in your world and how it helps you achieve your goal. Just because something has intrinsic value doesn’t mean you have to reaffirm it. Everyone in this world has a role to play. That role will either be helpful, neutral or contrary to your interests. Treat people accordingly and forget that intrinsic value.
          That said, as I mentioned above, I simply don’t believe in this notion of the sanctity of human life and that by virtue of breathing and shitting a person has any worth. Worth is derived from action. Let me know what a person achieves and I will let you know what his value was — in hindsight.

        2. I take a similar view on others. When I socialize its with people I get something from in return, whether it be a laugh or something more tangible. Just keeps things easier. Life is too short to befriend people who not only have nothing to offer you in return (and I mean not even a good chuckle now and then) but who will generally just drag you down with their bullshit. A real friend who gives me value(s) may have a bad spell in life (relative dies, loses a job, whatever) but he doesn’t let that define him and while he may get drunk with you one night toasting “Fuck that fucker who fired me!” he’ll bounce back.
          In the end, it’s always rational self interest that I come back to for major values that I follow in life.

        3. yeah, exactly. Look, if a guy builds up a good account balance and has an off couple of weeks when his dog dies that is one thing but to let someone drain your fucking soul and get nothing in return…..nfw.
          Rational self interest and individuals adhering to it is what has made the world go ’round. Any priest who tells you otherwise is looking for a handout.

        4. I didn’t say it was a high intrinsic value 🙂
          Well said, though. I wanted to make the point that intrinsic value is a fluctuating thing, which one can raise and lower by their actions. But, regardless of your intrinsic value, your value to me is measured by our interaction.
          Usually, one would say copper has more intrinsic value than water (conducts current, good for production, etc). However, in the desert, I’d trade millions of dollars of copper for enough water to stay alive. The same principle applies here: you can be the genius of the age, but if you’re a colossal tool around me I’m going to hate your guts.

        5. right. I think we essentially agree on the pragmatic reality just not on the ontological one. For the prior, yes, value shifts with action and interaction. We agree. For the former I would say that there simply is no value that a human has over a rock or over a dog turd until that value, positive or negative, is added by the individual.

        6. Simply asking yourself: “What am I getting out of my interactions with this person?” and being able to assess their value to you — which is completely at your own discretion; it can be frivolous and trite so long as you’re okay with it — is all that is really necessary.
          And also understanding that it doesn’t make you an asshole because you don’t want anything to do with some enervating, time-suck of a human being. Kicking dead weight to the curb is the quintessence of self-respect as far as I’m concerned — the feelings of the other party don’t mean shit. Their feelings would mean shit if they were worth a shit, but they’re not, so fuck ’em.

        8. as a corollary story note, I know a guy who is dating a girl he is just so fucking done with. She is out of work and looking for a job. He says every time he speaks to her he can feel the wind leave his chest. She is just such a drain on his soul. He says she is a good person but he just wants nothing to do with her but he is staying until she finds a job because he doesn’t want to be an asshole. This is a guy in his late 30’s and I keep trying to get him to realize the immense value of the currency he is wasting in spending time with this person. Being a decent human being doesn’t mean we are required to take the weight of people on us for nothing in return.

        9. Being a decent human being doesn’t mean we are required to take the weight of people on us for nothing in return.

          QFT

        12. “Being a decent human being doesn’t mean we are required to take the weight of people on us for nothing in return.”
          Echoing GOF — exactly.
          On another note, what the fuck does this even mean: “He says she is a good person.”
          Most people, generally speaking, are “good people.” I don’t know anyone off the top of my head that goes around tipping over baby strollers and calling octogenarians cunts as they walk down the street. Most people pay their bills; most people are respectful to others in the most standard sense; most people do enough to not be considered a “bad person” by society’s standards.
          Just because someone might be a “good person” doesn’t make them the “right person.” Someone who hits all the requirements required to become an integral part of a discerning individual’s life is a “right person.” There are “right people” and “wrong people” — “good” doesn’t have a fucking thing to do with it because good is the baseline of what a person should be.

        13. It’s an excuse he’s telling himself because he’s too much of a coward at that particular moment in time to do what he knows in his soul he needs to do. It’s not about her, or you, it’s about him not having the courage to just fucking shoot the round and get off of the target range.

        14. you stole these words right out of my soul. “oh he is a good man” more often than not translates to “he is a fucking sucker”

        15. O I knew a guy once….
          we’re at a stop light. he rolls down the window and flips off the old lady next to us, just starts yelling “fuck you!” at her.
          He was NOT a good person.

        20. right. I was watching a family guy the other day where brian and stewie are looking for meg
          Who gave you that hat?
          I don’t know some girl
          Describe her
          She had a great personality
          Yeah, that’s her.

        21. Or…….
          Maybe he’d seen her hit a mother with a baby carriage crossing the street and then drive off.

      3. Y’know my first reaction to this was: “that is by far the bleakest shit you’ve ever said”
        But reading further through the conversation I have to agree; simply by working through the inverse, that is, considering interactions with those who not only offer nothing but take incessantly, that your conclusions are sound, honest, and well, ‘good’ even.

        1. Thus always the red pill. It begins with instinctive revulsion, and ends with the conclusion that the premise was actually pretty obvious in hindsight.

        2. I am a lot like the far side.
          Remember reading the far side and you would not find it funny, but you knew it was funny because it was the far side there was just something you weren’t getting.
          See, I am always right…it is just a matter of looking at it from the right angle.

        6. I been having a hell of a time locating places to download old mixtapes of ’98-’08 rap music. And yes I have spent hours on Youtube but that chunk of rap history seems to be missing from there.

      4. the kingdom of ends is the foundation of our culture. It does not matter if the ends in question are all knob ends, they are ends in themselves nonetheless. How can the world be better for those people who are treated, ultimately, as no more than a means to an end, unless they are therein excluded from that world? Of course we are all mean to others’ designs but our whole civilisation is premised on the idea that in the final reckoning we are our own purpose, each and every one of us, without exception.

        2. But you don’t have to buy it. You just have to print it, so to speak. We are a value creating society

        3. The fact that society, in its formative state, is built on a foundation of people pretending that life has intrinsic value and that people are part of a kingdom of ends is true. However, that the noble lie that life matters was helpful in a time when life was cruel, short and brutish doesn’t mean it’s true

        4. well perhaps the noble lie should be buried once and for all, not least because there is rarely anything noble about it, but don’t we ‘will’ truth these days? An imperative is not a state of affairs it is a project

        5. An imperative implies a “must” and isn’t merely a project
          And yes, we do, “will” a truth and sometimes that truth is a value but the idea of an intrinsic value basic solely on being human is what I don’t buy.
          Human beings have always suffered being part of an abject particularity which them must will themselves above if they want to be one with some notion of an absolute…
          The fact is that most people are canon fodder and feces machines and those people are only valuable insofar as they are used by better men to good purposes like any tool

        6. well obviously people may have a use-value according to a particular purpose, which may or may not be their own particular purpose. I think you’re getting hung up though on the word ‘intrinsic’ , possibly because of the religious origins of the notion. I agree that an imperative implies a ‘must’ but there is no reason a project should not reflect such a ‘must’, that is be considered a morally necessary project (although I appreciate the difficulties in attempting to establish any kind of objective moral value as with the categorical imperative / universal maxims etc). If we are talking about willing some kind of truth or value then it would be of the same kind of necessity as one might find in those kinds of revolutionary pamphlets that tend to be entitled ‘What is to be Done’. The notion of moral necessity is well established. It’s just the content that tends to be controversial

        7. It seems, mobs, that once again we have got around to where we agree. However, the question of intrinsic value of the human subject isn’t a hang up, it was the very starting point of the discussion.
          We essentially have wondered onto the very awesome question of whether a necessary simulacra ceases to be a simulacra.
          This is a question I’ve pondered for years and still don’t have a satisfying answer to

        8. If I understand what you mean that’s not a bad way of putting it. If the question of the intrinsic value of the human subject is the starting point, one might wonder whether it will also become the end point. Perhaps that depends on the force of what we understand by ‘necessary’. In other words can moral necessity have the same force as causal necessity for instance?

        9. Can it? Sure. Does it? I doubt it. I like what Kant does when he talks about moral necessity as directing the will only towards that which won’t contradict with the necessary conditions on which the possibility of human consciousness is predicated.
          Of course, Kant doesn’t believe in willing oneself above the universalizable because that means to will oneself as an exception. I understand why he does this, he is able to make Christian ethics absolute without an appeal to god or government. However, I tend to modify with Kierkegaard and Nietzsche and suggest that exceptional people are not just allowed but ought to will themselves as an exception.
          The question of course because who is truly exceptional and who is merely acting on hubris, but that is a whole other can of worms.
          In the meantime, if society requires a lie that human life has inherent value and if we find ourselves in a society, is that lie false simply because it doesn’t align with the truth or is that lie made true through the casual necessity (in the hypothetical where we live in a society) that is already-always existing?

        10. Sure, Kant’s is a valiant but flawed attempt to ground Christian ethics in a universal reason. When you say though “I tend to modify with Kierkegaard and Nietzsche and suggest that exceptional people are not just allowed but ought to will themselves as an exception” I think immediately of Dostoyevsky’s rationally murderous Raskolnikov (in C&P). Morever ‘exceptional’ is a social value judgement, not just the individual’s self-legislating. Raskolnikov’s rationalisation (against universality) is that the (social) end justifies the means. The social here, as with communism, progressivism etc when end justifies the means thinking is employed ultimately makes a claim to a kind of universal (one that excludes the murdered / exploited as individuals but potentially includes them as part of a greater whole) but it seems to me that in doing so it falsifies or conceals the function of the ego. At the best the egoist, who wills the satisfaction of his hungers and desires, can argue that society would be better (utility wise) if all were true to themselves in that way. At worst, though, this is just window dressing. Stripped to the bone all that is left, is raw naked id.

        11. Fair enough…but Raskolnikov is there to serve Dostoyevsky’s own political purpose. And, even abstracted from that, his motivation wasn’t pure even if he tried to convince himself of that in retrospect. Take a different example, like Kierkegaard does in Fear and Trembling, the biblical Abraham. Here is a real fucking lunatic. Infanticide is about as naughty as naughty gets. Yet Abrham’s transgression is seen as a teleological suspension of the ethical. For the man of faith, the realm of human morality has no power. This is why I often say that God is the ultimate nihilist. The being which exists in the vacuum and needs to create a value system. Nihilism isn’t the absence of god, it is the recognition of oneself as god.
          So of course you are right about the egoist and then who is to saw who has pure motives and who has earthly motives…well, history is a good judge. Everything makes a claim to the universal, some things pan out. The solution isn’t to say that nothing ought to make a claim to the universal, nor is the solution to come up with some kind of static set of criteria by which a claim to the universal is seen as valid. Mortal judgment has no place here and there can never be static rules. What we are doing is right. We do what we do and let history shake things out. In the end each of us, each civilization and, indeed, the whole species is on a crash course with its own demise…extend the timeline out long enough and you will find nothingness. IN the meantime all we can do is try. I am fond of saying that my seeming transgressions of the status quo morality are justified in that I am right with God and I do truly believe that. I am exceptional and as such am an exception and refuse to cow tow to those who say I am not. History may prove me right or wrong or, more likely, not bother with my inconsequential ass in the first place but when it comes to action I can chose to do what I think is right for me or what you think it right for me and the choice seems fairly obvious between the two. I would never universalize my particular decisions in such a way that I believe they hold for all subjects even if I think the abstract pattern is one that does and as such I tend not to moralize to others. The people who bug me are the insecure people who demand the universalization of their personal moral system as justification of their life–I am not in the business of setting myself on fire to keep lesser men warm.
          As for Kant….make no mistake that his attempt to ground Christian ethics in universal reason was not just brilliant, timely and revolutionary but not only didn’t fail, succeeded perfectly. Kant missed the why because he was barely human and as such couldn’t understand humans, but he pinned the how down perfectly.

        12. Dostoyevsky does have a political purpose, both universal Christian and particularist Russian but in C & P I would say the political angle is mainly a critique of the idea of philosophical and revolutionary nihilism. I’m not arguing in favour of the latter part of the book – the Christian (re)solution – but just maintaining that his take on men who would be God is solid.
          When you consider that ‘nihilism isn’t the absence of god, it is the recognition of oneself as god’ I think I (and probably Dostoyevsky) would agree, but merely insist that that is why nihilism ultimately fails: man is not God, God is God, and the error eventually reveals itself.
          Traditionally we understand man as created in the image of God, so if God is a nihilist then perhaps man should imitate him? However if the above is so then it is also the case that not only the individual subject but all men are created in God’s image. The universalising maxim – towards universal nihilism fails – all men cannot be nihilists without chaos except isn’t that precisely what crowleyians, thelemists and other assorted nihilists preach: that all men can be their own Gods?
          In terms of maxims what is the difference between teaching that we are all Gods or that we are not but nonetheless as humans partake of the kingdom of ends? I think the difference lies in the exceptionalism you refer to. In the Kantian scheme we are all ends in ourselves unconditionally, and inalienably – even if we are as thick as a plank or as evil as Hitler. In the case of exceptionalism, only some of us will “discover who we are”; discover that we are Gods, free to legislate as our will, or higher self, or inner daemon or whatever, dictates. There can be something liberatory about this perhaps – we can break taboos, throw off superstitious or outmoded constraints on our freedom etc. – but there is a necessary tension here between doing so and recognising the will and rights of others. Exceptionalism is necessarily a two tier system. The Kantian universalist may well seek to impose moral prescriptions on others – and I agree there may be difficulties in this regard – but equally exceptionalism in denying universal values may deny to some, or to the many what it takes through the exercise of will or the capriciousness of self-deity.
          There is one thing though I think we might perhaps agree upon, at least formula-wise: one could see both Kantian / Dostoyevskian ethics and nihilistic / thelemic ethics as ultimately different responses to the injunction to ‘know thyself’. The thelemist in seeking self-knowledge discovers only libido and appetite within a universe of chaos: the ascent to self-deity is ultimately the discovery that one is alone in the universe, that others exist only as a function of the self, and indeed of the appetites of the self. For the Kantian though this is solipsism; a failure both of imagination and indeed of the injunction to know oneself itself, which is also, by this reading, an injunction to know ones limits as a mere mortal human being. You are right that Kant does not know human beings, being exceptional even as he legislates his commonality, but Dostoyevsky though does know human beings and their frailties and I think that’s why Dostoyevsky puts what you might call a big short on self-deity. Hubris always leads to failure, and a reminder of one’s mortality. Ultimately it is we who require that it is so.

    2. Disagree almost entirely. A lack of outside real life connections breeds a certain level of apathy to outside connections, which also breeds familiarity and comfort in not having outside connections. Get you out for 6 months without internet, going to real life parties, going to real life social events, meeting new and interesting people, forming bonds and you’ll find that the internet is a very pale comparison.

      1. That’s why I was looking forward to those meetups last year. You guys have been great online, but I vastly prefer offline interactions.

        1. Same. I’ve done/am doing one on one meetups since that time though, with some handles you might recognize (or not) from here over the last two years. Real life always surprises, many times in a pleasant way.

        2. I’ve got a good friend that comes over every two weeks to mix red wine and gun powder. There’s nothing like the camaraderie of spending the afternoon comparing notes on handloads, shooting the shit and putting some lead down range. Sometimes we slaughter and butcher sheep or rabbits together. There’s always food and this time of year we’re out on the deck, music playing, grill going. You cannot get that online.

      2. Wasn’t stumping for the internet, but those real life events sound incredibly draining and painful.

        1. That’s because you’re so used to what is comfortable that any kind of change seems like a net negative.
          Ever have a buddy or girl want to go out and do something and you’re telling him/her “Man, that just sounds stupid, I don’t want to do that shit, I have other things to do” but then you go, and by the end of the day you’ve had a great time and really enjoyed yourself. That’s the impulse you’re fighting, that “This is stupid, I got better things to do”. Because you’ve conditioned yourself to only receive pleasure from non-social interactions.
          Free will exists, but the real exercise of it is painful and difficult. The rewards area almost always worth it though.

        2. I’ve had too many of the opposite, I go, with an open mind, and end up having a shit time. AND I have to conceal it and pretend or risk being that asshole who speaks his mind.
          I see where you’re coming from, just we have different viewpoints and experiences.

        3. That’s why Nassim Taleb in Antifragile recommends going to parties.
          Here is the part I’m talking about:
          Ich mag das Überraschungsmoment, das Partys an sich haben (der Besuch von Partys bringt Optionen mit sich; vielleicht der beste Rat für jemanden, der von Ungewissheit mit geringen Nachteilen profitieren möchte: Partys besuchen).
          Google Translation (it’s scarily good!):
          I like the moment of surprise that parties have (the visit of parties brings options, perhaps the best advice for someone who wants to profit from uncertainty with minor disadvantages: visiting parties).

        4. So have you considered that the places you go for socialization in real life are not really for you, but maybe some others are? Some guys do awful in clubs, or bars, but can really enjoy riding motorcycles with a “pack” (or whatever).

        6. Been doing a lot of self-analysis of late, just not seeing a lot of value in most (not all, most) of the relationships foisted upon the average person.

        7. If you’re out looking for decent people to associate with, then that’s hardly something being foisted on you. You get to pick and choose. If somebody annoys you, excuse yourself and go talk to somebody who seems more interesting.
          Introversion, I think, has been taken to extremes by the Internet. Meaning, it’s made being an introvert so easy and painless that it becomes the only real way for people to get pleasure. Used to be, introverts had to walk out of the house now and again, and generally got isolated enough that they would start to crave at least some level of social contact. With social media providing a faux “social contact” now they really can let the introversion turn into something of a mind cancer. Not saying this about you, it sounds like you’re at least trying to go out, but a lot of guys strike me as utterly enslaved to living in a small room alone.

        8. I like the local cigar lounge. Nothing but a bunch of older guys (well, older than I am) pontificating on life behind a cigar or a pipe.
          The bars depress me. On any given night, you’re lucky to have 10% of the girls be vaguely bangable, and they’ve got a half-dozen orbiters apiece. Much rather enjoy a good whiskey with my mates.

        9. I’m in full “Daniel Plainview” mode (without the alcoholism):
          “I look at people and I see nothing worth liking. I want to earn enough money I can get away from everyone. … I can’t keep doing this… with these, umm… people.”

        10. I honestly can’t even relate to that mindset.
          There’s something in (almost) everyone that is worth getting to know, or get to know about I’ve found. Even the stupidest person can teach me something, if nothing else how not to be, by his example. And if you’re a really good story teller you’ll find that you draw people way out of their comfort zone in a good way and can come to some really fun conversations.
          That attitude you quote is along the lines of the toxic introversion that is facilitated by the internet/social media. Without that, with just having to sit alone for a long while with no social-crutch, you’d probably come to value a friendly conversation while out and about now and then. People really aren’t as cumbersome and burdensome as that quote suggests. Outside of ditching social media, I think the trick is to let go of a bit of the ol’ Ivory Tower conceit that we call fall into now and again. So what if Bob Countryboy is a hick, hey, maybe he has some funny stories about life on the farm. Or whatever. Ya’ know?

        11. I was mostly making a joke, but nowadays (esp. in this political climate) the number of non-superficial conversations you can have that also don’t offend everyone has narrowed considerably. And to see “compassionate” people pontificate constantly and smell the bullshit coming out as they do, it’s more than a rational man can bear.

        12. Wait….you worry about offending people?
          No wonder you aren’t having fun!
          People *love* the non-PC talker. It’s almost no work to charm what you’d think of as a PC crowd into laughing with you as you “agree and amplify” regarding topics of race and sex.
          A buddy of mine a week or two ago went on a big ol’ rant about feminism and when an attending female tried to get “offended” he smiled a cool country smile and gave her the most charming, sweet look and said “Hush purty, baby girl, men are talking” then burst out laughing. She started laughing too. Then she hushed. Purty even.
          PC is a chain we put on ourselves, nothing more. Fuck what people think that they want to hear, be charming enough, crack enough jokes, do it with a casual charm and you can say *any freaking thing you like* and get applause for it.

        13. That “joking around” thing might fly in the Buckeye state, but where I live you’ll get screamed at and still YOU’LL be the asshole. 🙂

        14. Where are you, 1934 Soviet Russia?
          The trick is to be charming and getting people to laugh. I’ve started conversations, and then a girl will get to yapping about “women’s rights/women’s issues” and give me a dare like snarl “SO what do you think about that?!?” and I’ll answer, without fail, “I dunno sweety, I was too busy staring at your tits to pay attention to what you were saying”.
          Smiles. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

        16. Nah, central Ohio, just north of Columbus.
          To put it in “tolerance context”, imagine going to a hipster art gala that goes up and down a city street. You’ve probably seen them, most cities have them. Now imagine open carrying a sidearm from artist to artist up and down the streets, and not having a single person give you shit about it. That’s the mood here. If anything, we’re borderline too nice at times.

        17. Careful Krampus!
          Excluding 2am bar hags (that I probably shouldn’t exclude) there are maybe a dozen men here with the confidence to make that work.
          it’s a cute line though.

        18. Well I’m just north of Boston, so yes, pretty much Soviet Russia or Cultural Revolution China.

        19. “Nothing but a bunch of older guys”… this is a great thing also! All too often, people discount older folks and it’s a damn shame. Some of the best friendships I’ve ever had were those formed over the years from going to Car Shows, mostly with older guys. These were some of the most interesting people with very diverse backgrounds and always willing to share fascinating life stories – all without pretense, just guys and cars. I always look forward to detailing my car and heading out on an early weekend morning to meet for coffee or for a big show… it’s a beautiful thing!

        21. Yeah, me too actually. I was referring more to the hilljack kind who ain’t fond of cipherin’ and shit. Heh.

        22. Works great for me. The things I get by saying to women in public sometimes surprises even me.

        23. Cipherin’? Wot in hell is that? Now shit…I know shit. Shoveled some outa th’ sheep barn jess las’ night. So don’t tell me I don’t know shit! 😉

        24. You gotta cipher the numbers together to get an answer man! 2+2 ciphers to 4.

        25. Day-ummm! Ya’ shure are purdy smart Mr. Jefferson. Hell yeah! An’ ta’ think I bin takin’ my shoes off to count above ten…

        26. Can’t decide between “walk before you can run” or “it’s not what you say it’s how you say it.”

  5. Roosh is right about most things here. The solution is to just log off. Get out and go someplace new that features “human beings”. And when you do so, choke off that *trained reflex* you’ll have for “I hate peoplez! This is stoopidz!” Just go out and if nothing else, people watch. Walk up and talk to somebody (doesn’t have to be a girl). Buy a drink for somebody that says something you found funny at the bar. It’s really not that hard (I think Roosh, being more a child of the Internet than I am has a good 10-15 years less of real life socializtion than a normal GenX’er would who was born before the WWW). The hardest part honestly is fighting the “this is new, I hate it!” gag reflex.

    1. I always considered myself a loner until I realized how much enjoyment I get sitting and watching people. I like the small town life but I also enjoy walking through a crowded city and seeing people live their lives. We NEED human interaction

      1. People watching is great fun, especially if you form little games around to share with a friend.
        For example, if I’m with a buddy or female, I’ll start the “What would happen if this room suddenly was transported to an inhabitable alien world” game. Figure out who would be who in the hierarchy, who would do what, etc., just by observing them from a distance at a restaurant, bar or park.

        1. I always think, “what would happen if someone pulled a gun or knife here?”
          or
          “How would I take them down if they went psycho?”

        2. Heh, to me, that’s not a game, that’s just basic situational awareness.

        3. I like to try to figure out the dynamics of the relationships I see playing out too
          Louis L’Amour had a quote that went something like this: “Always be aware of what’s around you. There’s always something that can be used as a weapon”
          Since I read that I’m constantly thinking about what I could use if my gun messed up or whatever.

      2. People watching is Great. Depending on where you are, it can be both fascinating and hilarious!

    2. Sometimes I tell people at work to “log off” as a substitute for “fuck off”.

  6. Maybe I need to get in contact with the Identitarian movement in germany. Probably the only community with uncucked guys in my homeland.
    Oh, did I tell you that last week a video of my cousin (female) was leaked and passed around were she is seen sucking an afroamerican dick? At least not a somalian refugee.
    What will happen next?
    Will my mother move to a refugee camp?
    Will my father come out as a tranny?
    These questions will be answered in the next episode of: Total cuckening.

  7. I cant imagine meeting any of you guys in the real world. 30 or 40 guys fighting for the conch shell(once obtained, it ensures maximum/mandatory upvotes)

    1. It’s not a bad thing man. A big room full of guys might be a bit shallow and you won’t get any real connections, but one on one or a small group and it’s great fun.

      1. No, youre right, one on one would work, but the nature of the site(and the web) is you are talking to dozens of people who may chime in at any given moment- not the same experience, which is why folks hang out here in the first place

        1. Well sure, no question. But I’ve found that you get to know the person below the internet millimeter thin facade. Dunno, I just enjoy it (or, have thus far).
          I do tend to forget that many on this site are natural introverts. That being said, I think any man can train himself against “natural” anything and become what he wants to be.

        2. Totally agree.
          I am a natural introvert – because I’m mildly autistic.
          But if you get me out of my usual environment I can be the center of the party.
          Happened last time on a three day scholarship seminar in march 2015 where I was confronted with a completely new group of people that I had never seen before.
          At the end of day 2 I had made out with 2 chicas and the whole group was talking about me like the MSM is talking about Trump (like literally – same topic: overt sexism).

        3. If a group of snots is going to criticize you, that’s the best thing you can be criticized of in front of others, especially females. Heh.

  8. Thanks for this. It’s sad to see people replacing real human interaction with technology. Nothing can replace standing talking face to face with someone. I can’t see your eyes or body language over a phone call or email. I can’t enjoy the feel of someone over a data connection.

    1. I was looking at the picture of a room full of people and it made me think about the difference in playing music live versus studio. I hate recording music. The multiple takes until it’s “perfect”. No Audience feedback. But when it’s live and you feel the groove and the people are jamming and you look out and see smiles and people singing along. Gives me chills just typing it.

      1. I get both sides of the music thing. Well produced music can be amazingly wonderful and “airbrushed” to the point of perfection. On the other hand, going to see David Allen Coe live means you’re going to see him be way more “David Allen Coe” than you’ll ever hear on even the most polished vinyl.

        1. I was speaking from the musicians’ perspective. It’s a lot more rewarding shredding that solo or playing those intro notes and hearing the roar than sitting on a stool with headphones on playing the same chorus for the fifth time.

      2. That’s one of the reasons the older rock is so good. Some of those early albums from the 60’s were cut on the cheap, and the band didn’t have time or money to keep recording, so you get these amazingly real moments.
        Guitarist forgets his progression, ad libs something that works, and the work is forever changed. It’s a powerful thing.

    2. Try talking to an Americunt. Due to their reliance on technology and preferential treatment in society they have the social skills of a newborn baby. It’s fucking pathetic.

      2. Learn to lead the conversation and be a charming person and she’ll come out of that iZombie shell pretty quickly. The ones that don’t, well who cares, but it’s not something restricted to “America”.

        1. I do take the lead. They simply don’t possess the social skills to converse. It’s not their conversation I’m after. However, it is a necessary evil to get what I want.

        2. Whereabout in the nation are you (if you’re in the States I mean)? While there are some truly lost souls, more often than not I’ve never had a problem getting a girls eyes off the phone and getting her being pleasant.

        4. I had to restrain myself from popping this little noodle of a guy who said “LOL” like a word in person the other day. I mean, my arm actually flinched, as if it wanted to punch him of its own accord.

        8. I’m confused on what the issue is then?
          Also, if you’re up for a meet up/drink, drop me a line, my email is in my profile.

        9. It’s just the nature of women in America. Even though I’ve known it for years sometimes I still gotta slap myself to escape my disillusionment.
          I’ll let you know if I ever have some free time in Columbus.

    1. LOL, that’s funny. Everyone knows they don’t have no damned internet in Mississippi yet.

      1. Shoot, the Appalachian Electrification Committee hasn’t even made it down to those parts yet!

  11. It’s also worth pointing out to anybody who thinks that this is either or….
    I work from home and can (and do) spend way more time loafing and posting than I should as a decent human being. But when I log off, this is a normal schedule you’ll find me doing. Keep this in mind, looking at my post count.
    Monday – Lift weights at gym, go meet a buddy for darts afterward
    Tuesday – Euchre night with the wife (leagues)
    Wednesday – Lift weights at gym then Bike Night (Motorcycles)
    Thursday – Lift weights, and then Sitting at home talking to wife, kids, neighbors (my night off, really)
    Friday – Hit either the karaoke bar, or the country western bar, or the biker bar of choice with my buddies who on…
    Saturday – I will do a 50 to 200 mile ride with across various places in and around Ohio
    Sunday – Lift weights, maybe ping a few friends to go riding, or go out to my farm and tend to my barn and socialize with the neighbors there (who always come over).
    Normal week, right there. Sometimes there’s a lot more stacked on top of that. All while still keeping in touch on the internet.
    The hard part, to me, would be to give up the real life stuff. Once you’re really into the groove of it, you kind of feed on it and it becomes something you look forward to doing.

        1. If by “ten hour stretch conversations” then no. But wife, kids, neighbors and cookouts, it’s not bad. Besides, my wife is a pleasant, happy person to be around, and I enjoy her company.

      3. No, you actually probably won’t know what it is.
        Euchre is a card game that originated in Germany, I think perhaps Bavaria (but I might have that wrong). It’s played mainly in Ohio, western Indiana, parts of Michigan and maybe a bit of western Pennsylvania. In other words, it’s an Ohio card game.
        Great, great fun when you get experienced players (2 teams of 2 players face off) who can go fast and furious.

        1. Bavaria? so its an Illuminati card game? I thought you guys played miniature golf in Ohio, not cards

        2. Like I said, I might have that part wrong.
          Euchre is huge here. It was played almost every weekend when I was growing up, by nearly the entire town I grew up in. Now it’s played both at home, and in leagues that last 6 weeks (generally) and there are countless leagues.
          In the military the card game of choice was Spades, but you could immediately home in on people from Ohio by offering a game of Euchre. Made socializing easier, since we had things in common back home.

        6. I played a lot of bridge in graduate school and when I first started teaching. One of our group specific rules was that the dummy poured drinks and cut the blow

        7. I did note that it’s played in Indiana.
          It’s played state wide in Ohio, but I’ve only ever found it in the segments listed in other states. I strongly suspect it has a direct relationship to the wave of Germans who came into the region of Ohio and spread outward in all directions for a bit.

        8. So long as that never got turned around it should work out, but who can say after so many drinks? Hopefully game night was co-ed.

        10. good to know the USA isnt completely homogenized yet. only euchre I know is this guy(nsfw)

        11. It has that “this is *our* game” feel to it, certainly.

        12. In all honesty, I’ve never played bridge or pinochle. Real Ohio men play Euchre (said with an Arnold voice)!

        14. Bridge “night” was indeed coed. There were 4 teams of two and games generally lasted from Friday night until sunday afternoon. Ahhhh the good old days.

        15. When I was deployed the guys from Ohio and Michigan were doing euchre tournaments in the desert. No one else heard of it. Then we started setting up the horse shoe pitches.
          We made some converts.

    2. I think I let my schedule get the better of me for the last few years to the point where it was an excuse for me to not go out and socialize. The meetups last year was a goodnight test for me to break out of my comfort zone. Been trying to work on that more and more.
      Also, seeing your discussion euchre reminds me of this girl I knew from an Amish community in southern Ohio. She used to go on about corn hole tournaments over there. Is that a big thing too in Ohio?

      1. Cornhole was invented here actually, the general consensus is the west side of Cincinatti. It’s a big thing at cookouts and outdoor social events.

        1. (insert at least a dozen jokes with “cornhole” in them)

        3. It is one of the most utterly stupid names for a game on planet earth.
          As a fun event at a picnic or in a park or at a family bbq, on the other hand, it’s great fun.

        4. My family plays at picnics along with horseshoes. I am sure Memorial Day will include plenty of cornholing

      2. Oh, I lift. I also put them back down. I find both motions as part of an exercise routine somewhat essential.
        Couple of guys here know what I look like, ask around.

  12. I get social withdrawal anxiety after having a weekend of extreme fun socially, or family get-togethers, etc. It’s like coming down from a drug.

  13. In my experience, sometimes you need to step away to get back to reality, where nothing is as serious as the internet makes it sound.

  14. I congratulate mr. Roosh Valizadzeh for this much needed article. But at the same time I feel bad that it was needed to be written… i.e. that people believe that internet relationships can substitute real human connection .

  15. But it can be awesome to meet one of those internet friends in person. I’ve done it once.

  16. Is it just me, or does it seem like developing friendships with men more difficult than getting a girlfriend? Especially after everyone is married off, nobody has the time for themselves. Yet, they have time for the TV.

    1. For me, both depend on the environment. When I was in the Army I had a large group of close friends because we all had similar interests. Now that I’m out with the longhairs (civilians) I share a lot fewer interests and find it more difficult. With women, when I was in non-westernized countries I had no issue holding down a gf. Here in the US I’ve dated one girl, a Honduran, this decade.

      1. I am married with children, so I have little “me” time. I go home, eat dinner, play with the kids for 1-2 hours, then do the bedtime routine. Rinse, repeat. On the weekends is usually some repairs, taking the whole family out to something, or doing a date with the wife. The time for myself is sparse, so it make it difficult to develop friendships outside of family.

        1. I know precisely where you’re at.
          When they get to be 15 or so, they go almost ghost. You’re still going to football/lacross/band events, but they more or less rig for silent running. Once you get most of them out of the house, you’ll be amazed at how many hours you have free, to the point that you’ll start to get really bored if you don’t find some trouble to get into. My youngest graduates high school in a few months, that finish line has my hand about four inches from it and coming down fast. I have so much freaking free time now that it’s shocking. But ten years ago, I was exactly where you are now.

        3. Buy a motorcycle.
          Do a web search in your local area for things like bowling and card leagues.
          Look into deer camps.
          Fishing tournaments are also still common.
          Really there’s a whole mess to do out there socially, if you’re looking for it.

        4. Nice to hear that it gets better (not sure if I want THAT much free time) The oldest girl turned 10, so we let her baby sit on occasion this past couple months. Been over 12 years of needing to hire a babysitter if we wanted to do anything on our own.

        5. I know, I know…..gotta make some course adjustments. Things go a certain way for so long it takes some effort.
          and whats a deer camp?

        6. Telling ya’ Jim, you may not want that much free time, but you’ll get it. My advice, and take it for as much as it cost you to receive, is to start trying to do some kind of social event, just one, on one night a week once most or all of them are past the age of 12. Something to get your feet wet and create social networks in real life. Once your last one is a senior in high school I’m not kidding when I say it’s nearly silent and you can hear a pin drop in the house and you could, if you want, spend all day sitting on the couch watching television without hearing another human being except for your wife the entire day.

        7. I saw my parents go through that. They would just leave the TV on for the background noise.
          Now I come home, and it is a crazy house, crap all over the floors, stuff is broken, loud, fighting, someone is hurt….etc. I have to tell myself that I will miss this.

        9. To be as painfully honest as I can, you’ll miss some of it, but not all of it. Some parts, like the flying around like a bat out of hell 22 hours a day, you really probably won’t miss at all. What you’ll miss are the major events that all of that stumbling around in chaos provided, or at least, I do. The 5 night a week “be here, do this!” I have zero nostalgia about. It sucked. I really, was not fond of it, but I did it because it was my duty as a father. But the weekend band shows where they made the stands erupt into standing ovations? The day you pick up your kids from band camp and they’re going on about what a great time they had and you’re just genuinely glad to see them? The camp outs with your son in Scouts where you have nights around the fire where everybody is making marshmallows melt and telling stories? Pure gold. I miss that already.

        10. Same here. Just sitting in my parents basement writing my bachelor thesis but that’s exactly how it is here now.
          I can here them screaming all the time when they are not silent watching the TV. It’s sad af.

        11. Considering my oldest is doing regular camp outs and my youngest was born this year, I have awhile before I can hang up my scout uniform. I just hope I am still able to do decent backpack trips when the youngest is a teenager.

        13. Yeah, that shit can rip you up. It’s why I think it’s important to start getting out doing social things *before* the kids are all the way out of the house. Fuck if I’m going sit here, night after night, going over photo albums and USB picture shows and getting all misty eyed. There’s a big world out there that is smack dab full of fun.

        14. True, it isn’t like you can just suddenly jump into a new social life and be on top of your game. Takes time to build friendships and learn the local activities.

        15. You stand in the woods all day with your nose in the dirt while counselors take turns shooting at you.

        17. Fuckin’ eh. I’m tucking this one in my top pocket for when the time comes.

        19. Thanks. It’s helped me out immensely.

    3. Yeah once you’re ensconced in suburbia or its equivalent, finding a bloke to have a beer with in your garage and shoot the shit with can be difficult. I blame the decline of men’s organizations and sports like bowling leagues, poker clubs, and the general inwards-orientation of society now. I’ve asked a few colleagues over for a brew, a game, this or that and they always look at me like I’m from Mars and scamper off. Maybe I should switch deoderant?

      1. Tried going to a “Eagles Lodge” meeting a couple months ago. It was a bar with as many women as men there. Not interested.

      2. I don’t know where you are, but we have bowling leagues, card leagues and other activities still. I think most people just assume that they no longer exist, but do a search in your area and you might come away surprised.

        1. Southern PA. I think they might still exist around here somewhere off the beaten path. You go about 5 miles from the interstate and it’s like stepping back in time 50 years.

        2. I’ve stayed in PA for work events for a few weeks at a time. I will admit, it’s a really strange social environment. Y’all don’t even have many normal bars (at least not in Harrisburg) and the few I found didn’t know what live music was except “Something I heard that they used to do back in the 80’s” (I was actually told that once).

        5. There’s one good irish bar I know of in Harrisburg. Usually each town has at least one halfway decent one. Then a lot of the small towns have these old roadhouse type establishments that are about 95% locals that turn around and look at you when you walk in.

        8. Philly.
          But I almost moved to Chambersburg once. Thought better of it and scurried back east.

        9. I am based in Philly for work (pilot). Yeah I know what you mean, I am a transplant here from New England and it’s Pennsyltucky out here.

        10. ‘Best star-pilot in the galaxy’
          Sorry I just cant stop…..
          I have to go to PHL from time to time for work, maybe we can put back a few before you fly a plane somewhere!

        11. Hehe. Yeah my screen name has a bunch of weird coincidentals with me, some are career/other interests and some are family related. Getting buzzed sometime before I go fly a large passenger aircraft sounds like a great idea. Ha but seriously I’m there for a lot of down time too.

        12. I found one of those in Harrisburg. Or rather, about 10 miles outside of Harrisburg, give or take? The in-Harrisburg places left me wanting, only one of them was an actual real bar that I didn’t mind going into, forget the name but it was something dopey and non-Irish. Asked around and got directed to “old roadhouse” that was a notorious place where bikers went, so I figured, I’m in.
          Drive up, walk inside, and the first thing that struck me was the enormous Confederate flag hanging behind the bar. The next thing that struck me was everybody turning to look at me nearly in unison. And the third thing that struck me was this clearly smashed mid 30’s broad walking over and slurring to me “I’m so gonna-sh sssuck your dick tonight baby”. I politely declined.
          Fun place though. Once I sat down, started talking and bought a few drinks it was like I was a regular.

        13. Yeah Pennsyltucky folks tend to try a bit too hard with the Confederate thing. I think you could be a real rebel by flying a Union Jack. But you described a typical biker bar in this state perfectly.
          The one in Harrisburg I was thinking of is called ceoltas or something like that. It’s probably not real Irish, but usually acceptable. It’s right downtown, can hardly miss it.

        17. Cant mistake them for hell’s angel biker gang though although the broad might be their (property) so better not mess this up then.

        18. Played *everywhere*. The leagues in central Ohio for it are numerous and very active.

        19. They weren’t red, white and black, not Hell’s Angels. She was just divorced and super drunk and wanted a rebound fuck in the parking lot. Wasn’t going to happen because she was *truly* too drunk to give consent (and that’s against my sense of right and wrong) PLUS she was mediocre at best in the looks department. Nope.

      3. these guys have diapers to change, dishes to wash and wives that give them shit for a beer once in a while.

        1. As I’m listening to the sound of Barney in the other room…yeah I hear that. My wife is of the same sentiment, “Why can’t we find any friends?” I suggested joining a church, and that brought about 500 old ladies (and one really good babysitter) bringing baby blankets and cookies to the door. Which is fine, but I would like to drink crappy beer and talk about bass fishing with someone once in a while.

        2. Well, you’re only in PA, maybe we could meet half way in Youngstown for a drink this summer?

        3. AMEN…..I know I’m going to hell for this, but the church we joined is like a slow-motion funeral…..

        4. Hey, you should have clued off by the name of the sect. Lethargitarians, I mean, how would you not get that?

        5. pretty good, pretty good….
          Nah, more just a dying congregation of a dying religion in a dying Neighborhood….

        6. Sounds great. Youngstown is only a couple hours from here. Good hunting out that way too if you can avoid the CWD. Do you get that in Ohio yet?

        7. Yeah a lot of them seem like that these days. It’s really pretty sad. We went to about six different ones looking for one to call home and picked the one with the largest attendance and lowest mean age. Then they got a woman pastor and I stopped going.

        10. That’s a good thing. Chronic Wasting Disease, it’s like dementia for deer, might have transferred from cattle. Prion disease like Creuzfeldt Jackobs that turns their brains to swiss cheese.

        11. Oh shit, ok. Y’all have too many deer in too cramped a space is what helps it spread fast right? Deer out here are hale and healthy still, we’re nowhere near as densely packed as y’all.

        12. Yep, and all the nervous system parts are possibly contaminated. Yes a lot of deer in too close an area. Now it hasn’t jumped to humans…yet. If it does I’m probably done with deer hunting in PA.

        13. give the priest some shit about it.
          The priest should be God’s spark in your soul!

        14. The content serves that purpose.
          The priest, well he can’t control the dwindling, aging demographics.

        16. The further south of Youngstown you go the more CWD you get in my experience. Pretty sure it already jumped to humans in steuben(stupid)ville.

        17. Just checked my email this morning, will send a response soon!

      5. “I blame the decline of men’s organizations…”
        But which is cause and which is effect? Those are in decline because too many men are not “allowed” to hang out anymore. No wonder marriages have the friction they do anymore. Women want to isolate men, then men have nowhere to vent.

      1. Seconded. The only other guys in their forties that I’ve been able to socialize with are either single or divorced.

        2. Same. I think it is simply after career and family, you have littlte time to yourself let alone meeting new friends. Just doesn’t happen.
          I have a friend who went through a nasty divorce. We knew his wife and I won’t lie… she was unsufferable cheating bitch. We had him for dinner a few times and let him vent. I suggested he come over one Friday night for grub and a few drinks and he could crash in the guestroom. He agreed. After dinner he was covering old ground and then it got wierd. He got queit and watched my wife pick up our daughter who was 2 at the time. He pardoned himself and said he had to go. He didn’t contact me for two years.
          I understand why.

        3. A wife doesn’t want her man to have any male friends she can’t control. It isn’t that you don’t have time, it’s because your wife won’t allow it. She will allow you to see husbands of her friends as she has control of them. IF she can’t break your male friendship any other way, she’ll fuck him.
          This is one of the things that most men never realize, women are very good at this process. Alienation and assimilation.
          Interesting that Jim Johnson is in the same (cucked) position as every other married man.

        4. And yet, I’m not. But you blocked me. So interesting.

        7. I have all of my pre-marriage friends at least in some contact, and my real life friends are the kind whose visage scares horses and little children. She doesn’t say a word.

        8. I think this is more a big city thing.
          It describes exactly how things ended up between me and most of my male friends.
          The other problem is the men are completely blind to it and sometimes do it of their own volition. They think it means their women really need them.
          Men who come from healthy families that didn’t have a rough time with women are immune to this, but that’s a rarity. All the men I knew who struggled with women latched on like a vice grip to the first one that allowed them to.
          Scheduling a day to hang out, even once a year, is like pulling teeth so I completely gave up.
          I know other men from work who live in more rural parts of my state and their lives are much different. They still find time to hang out with their friends, even prioritize it. They all have kids as well.

      2. That’s for sure, most of my married guys frends have to do family shit all the time. Never get to hang out.

        2. When a guy had time for his friends, the wife always has to find ways to occupy it to have him do shit for her.

    5. Developing solid friendships with men depends on the depth of philosophical agreement and shared experiences amongst them. You can friends you watch the game with, that root for the same team, and consider them “friends,” but only at the sports bar, tv watching level. It would be unwise to confide in such friends intimate details of your life or discuss your inner issues with them, as they are most likely to respond as a coach would the team with manly rhetoric such as “man up you pussy.” Those kinds of friends I label as acquaintances, although that’s to formal for the modern venacular, so “buddies” comes to mind as a more appropriate label. We all can say similar things about the people we work with, go to church with, participate in clubs and activities with, etc.
      Friends, however, is reserved for those who have a deeper connecting in truth and understanding, sharing common philosophies and values. You can even go further and say true friends have even shared in the same struggles and experiences you have.
      So, @Jim Johnson, YES! It’s more difficult to find friends than getting a girlfriend. A girlfriend, or dare I say any female, is incapable of being a friend as she cannot relate to the male psyche and our way of thinking toward anything. You can share intimacy with a female, but never connect at the male level in a friendship relationship. So yes, it’s more difficult. It’ hard to find men with the shared values and ideas, much less bonding over shared experiences and struggles over time. Getting a girlfriend is simple in comparison.
      Even Jesus only had 12 followers, 3 of which he considered close friends. And that dude was righteous in every way! So, how hard is it for mere mortal man to find true friends? Difficult, to say the least.

      1. You are spot on about the close connection. That takes time to develop, time that I do not have at this point in my life, neither does most of the guys my age. They are juggling work and family as well. It hasn’t been since high school that I have had that kind of time. It probably won’t be until the kids are in their late teens before that will happen.

        1. I had to pull the local tribe together by searching long and hard through the the RVForums. I now have guys in my life that are real friends — red pill men to the core, who can rely on each other.

      2. after taking the red pill, your close friends must be red pill…or you’re faking it.

    6. About 27 years ago, I remarried. My best friend that I hunted, fished and partied with when I was married to my ex, took me out for one final night of partying. He stood beside me as my best man at the ceremony and we both knew the relationship we’d had was over. My first wife was more than happy to have me out of her hair. Not so with my current wife. She actually wants to spend time with me, talk about things, do things together even after 29 years (Yeah, I know, it’s weird). I think he could sense the difference in those two women. We were still good friends, but dropping everything to go out shooting or fishing stopped. I moved half way across the country and we still stay in touch, but everything changed that day. I’ve had numerous GFs along the way, they’re easy to find, but never loyal or dependable like a true male friend. It’s taken me a long time to find a couple of men I can truly call friends (I’ve had more “acquaintances” than I can count). I’m talking about the kind of guys you can call at 2:00 AM and say “Dude my truck’s in the ditch, I’ve had a few, can you come pull me out?” and they’ll be there, and never say a word. True friendships like that are rarer than hen’s teeth.

      1. Women will always separate you from any friend who knew your previous wife/gf. That’s their first social rule.
        Bro’s before Ho’s man.

        1. Well P.J. I see your point. But in this case he didn’t really know my first wife. He was always telling me I needed to be home with my ex, not out running around with him. He really loves the girl I’m married to now and was happy about my situation (he’s a hopeless romantic). She didn’t separate us, we separated ourselves because I was really married this time.

    7. It truly is crazy.
      For 3 years in my mid-late 20’s, I lived with an old friend of mine from uni. In this time, we had mutual friends who ghosted out of our life for no clear reason and we didn’t understand it. I moved out on perfectly good terms and if I was in town, I’d drop in and usually stay the night. We’d get baked, play video games or tunes and watch movies like the old times. He’d stick close to home most of the time and (outside of his brother and his new flatmates) as far as I’m aware his regular social circles didn’t extend much further than that. I invited him to come an hour south to my place for the weekend, but he never took up on the offer.
      I moved interstate late last year and it’s been 6 months since I’ve spoken to him. I’ve made the effort a couple of times to keep the communication going…but it’s been a one way street. And this was a guy who was once that impulsive, fun-loving, out-going party guy who people loved and had little problem pulling decent birds. We saw each other practically every day for 3 years at the old bachelor pad. I never saw it coming to this…
      If you’d told me at 13 that there’d come a day where making friends with new guys would be a bigger task than getting regular dates, I wouldn’t have believed it.

    8. Roosh is a wealthy man….1 million visitors, maybe coming 7 times each, 7,000,000 x 10p a visit – £700,000 of revenue a month..

      1. More power to him. He is good at his writing trade and keeps on top of his website. Ain’t capitalism great?

      1. I think that is a common complaint throughout western society. Procrastination first, then honeydo’s, then family, then friends. Need to re-prioritize to family, then friends, then honeydo’s, then procrastination.

  17. I think I have a pretty good balance between online and offline activities. Have about 10 friends (and one girlfriend) and 30 acquaintances who I meet during a year. However, I would definitely want to meet more like minded people.

  18. As silly as it sounds, I have hangups and attachments with ROK at this point.
    When I write a passionate and insightful comment and no one upvotes it, I genuinely get annoyed.

    2. …..waits….doesn’t upvote yet…..waits……..

    3. I don’t want to hurt you, but… well, it’s only fair that you know. I’ve been visiting other forums behind your back.

        1. Anyone who upvotes Clark Kent from now on immediately gets kicked out of the club.

        3. It might look like no one upvoted you, but actually the counter just broke from too many upvotes.

        4. I’m out of the club too. Shit…I was never in the club. Who gives a rat’s ass anyway…

        5. If you aren’t in the club, you’re not entitled to our standard 2% discount at Bob Evans or Cracker Barrel. It pays to be in the club.

        6. Well I’ll just boycott Bob Evans and Cracker Barrel then. Come to think of it I don’t recall ever having been to either one, so I guess that won’t work. Dammit! Foiled again…

    4. That’s when the delete option comes in handy.
      You can act like nothing ever happened and slowly walk away…..

      2. Yeah, but we’ve all already seen it. If he deletes it, he’ll get it 100 times worse.

    5. you realize that no one is going to upvote this comment….like ever…right

    6. I preferred the old days of forums, when there was no such thing as upvoting. You had to actually respond. It’s facebook taking over everything, social gratification, and very chick-like ways we’re being programmed into.

    8. I have that too, why should I care if I get an upvote or not? I like to think I am changing hearts and minds with my comments, but really, I feel that status “boost” from the number on the side of the up-arrow. crazy. Like that comment a couple weeks ago where I told the world I used to jerk off to porn (137 upvotes so far) makes me a better person.

        3. Sorry man, no upvotes for you. Think of it as friends intervening in your addiction. You should thank us.

        5. Yeah, that’s motivation here on ROK. I think it will cause people to go back and take upvotes off of your comments on other threads, man.

        6. So all those Obamaphones were for nothing?
          Ok I think I’m done for the day… Thanks for the laughs fellas.

        8. there are so many kids in Africa you should donate three kids for one upvote

        11. I really almost upvoted this one and had to hold myself in check. You are cut off today clark. Normal upvoting will resume tomorrow.

        12. To up vote or not to up vote, that is the question. Well it’s quitting time. Sorry Clark, no more up votes for you today.

        14. Now in the original, if I recall correctly, Hamlet questioned whether or not to take up arms against a sea of troubles. But according to Mr. Galt, Clark already has this situation firmly in hand…

        5. Clark is a hands on sort of guy, so I’m sure he has a firm grip on his situation.

        6. Well if anyone can pull it off, it’ll be Clark. Of course someone will probably come along & tell him to beat it.

        8. From what I know about Clark, if the problem is a stiff one, he’ll slap the snot out of it.

        10. Maybe not, but I heard that Clark can step into a phone booth, come out as superman, switch hands & gain a stroke!

        11. Clark is a man of religion and has been known to shake hands with the bishop on occassion.

        12. Okay, I give! This has gone far enough! ROFLMAO! Mickey & John I can’t remember when I laughed this hard. Either one of you guys around the KC area by chance?

      2. There goes Psquare. Right out of the club. Damned traitors. They probably still like Trump and shit, too.

        6. I thought he just poked his head in to gloat and say “toldja so”. But I hope he’s back for good.

        7. I imagine Tom roaming the Caucus Mountains, wearing a bear pelt, digging into the carcass of a dead stag with his bare hands and chomping down on the raw flesh.

    11. Like minded individuals are hard and sometimes impossible to find in real life, so we have to substitute it being here. Its not the ideal, but hey we have to work with what we have…..
      I don’t have a single one, NOT a single one ‘friend’ in real life who shares my positions. In fact, most of my ‘friends’ or acquaintances would not talking to me (a couple would kill me, no kidding) if they knew who I really am.

      1. I know that feeling.
        I can talk to my friends about some pretty red-pill stuff, but if they knew what I really thought about things at large, it would probably freak them out.
        At the same time… I bet there are hidden secrets they have themselves that I would find completely unacceptable.

  19. That feeling when you run into a college buddy after 30 years and he’s still a leftist. I know I couldn’t get past the first beer.

    1. “And dude, what do you think about the status of women these days!? That Hillary didn’t get elected shows they are STILL treated like SECOND-CLASS Citizens!!”
      It’s when you wish your beard had a fist hidden in it.

  20. Kratom is the perfect substitute for friends. In fact Kratom is the only friend you need.

    1. For fuck’s sake, Willie. Kratom jokes are for sponsored posts only. Straighten your shit out.

      1. I know. Couldn’t help myself. (((K*****))) made me do it. He is very persuasive.

  23. I’d rather deal with people online than in person unless it’s someone close to me

  24. I have two friends, I’ve always had two friends, never found the time for more than two. If I make a third friend, I inevitably allow one of the original two to drift off. Stop confusing online chat with friends.

    1. Better to have 4 quarters than 100 pennies. The quality of friendship will always hold more value than the number of followers on Twitter.

  25. Roosh is a wealthy man….1 million visitors, maybe coming 7 times each, 7,000,000 x 10p a visit – £700,000 of revenue a month

  27. “Maintaining real communities and friends in person is hard. You can’t
    just “log off” when you want. You can’t shitpost or troll without
    repercussions. You have to sacrifice and accommodate to their needs. You
    have to be respectful to their feelings and particular insecurities,
    because you’d expect the same from them”
    real life connexions can be exhausting for that reason, that’s why perhaps online presence is so appreciated nowadays (more liberty, no heavy repercussions, opinions expressed without consequences, some devil may care attitudes etc…).
    as a misanthropist irl, most of people i appreciate to “hear” news from are people posting on ROK. Damn, that’s a bit pathetic lol

  28. This post rings true. Only problem is finding good real life friends. I once went without internet for 3 months to see if it was possible. Besides my buddies at work, I literally could not talk to anyone, outside of work, and a proto-player I know.
    I realized finding friends in these dark times is futile after I tried to turn my brother onto ROK and he lost his damn mind. Mind you he has a notch count of 70+ so I thought hed be sympathetic, but nope hes a mindless feminist drone, and attempted to assault me.
    In one notable incident some gammas who I thought were my friends turned on me and I ended up turning the local vicinity into basically a warzone. They tried to act like it never happened too. Stay vigilant bros.

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