A few months ago I was gaming with one of my friends in my favorite bar. Shortly after last call I was ready to start heading home empty-handed. We are lining up for our coats and suddenly I hear a familiar language: it wasn’t mine, but still pretty close. The guy in question was surrounded by three blond nurses and I casually struck up a conversation with him. He seemed like an okay dude and introduced me to the nurses. Outside of the bar, we are discussing with the girls what the afterparty will be like when finally they invite us over to their place to get a ‘glass of wine.’
Nothing happened that night (believe me it wasn’t for a lack of trying) besides getting drunk for free, but I discovered that the new guy and I shared the same musical tastes and general sense of humor. We decided to hang out again and game some girls. Not that I would have suspected it when I met him, but this guy turns chicks crazy. They literally throw themselves at him, stop at their tracks to try and gain his attention, give him the look—you know the drill. The first time we went to game together I thought it was going to be majestic. He would attract the hounds and I would reap whichever crops were left for the picking.
This wasn’t an especially noble idea, but regardless I thought I might have struck gold. While we had great chemistry with perfectly complimenting skill sets—he was at ease with direct approaches on the dancefloor and I was more comfortable with indirect at the bar—something didn’t feel right. Somehow, most times that we would approach a set of two girls, I wasn’t getting any attention whatsoever. I couldn’t pinpoint doing anything different than usual, so I assumed my new wingman had something to do with it.
After some time I realized what was happening: the girls were getting greedy. They would try to ‘fight’ each other over him, leaving me none of the scraps I thought I’d be getting. Approaching by myself held much greater success —several orders of magnitude above—than with him as a wingman. In short:
Be wary of a wingman that drives women crazy just by seeing him. You might see your ability to swoop women significantly impaired.
Instead of giving up, I persevered and continued our outings together. And while ‘notch-wise’ it was a very dry period in my life, what I learned was priceless: I got to see firsthand how a natural behaves in the field, how slutty women can be and why I should be ashamed to have ever had them up in a pedestal.
My wingman didn’t value girls when we went out. Sure, he would approach and dance with a couple of them, but he was perspiring with the energy of knowing he could practically get laid any night with any of at least three girls who would eventually throw themselves at him. The girls acted like betas by default: acting as if they owed him something. They would go out of their way to make themselves available, invite him to drinks, hand their number out to him, or ask him to go outside have a smoke with them. After some time he would just look at me and say “Bitches mean nothing to me, brother, let’s just have a great time and hit on some other girls.”
Some of you might be thinking by now: well, didn’t you get depressed to see after all your hard work that a natural was effortlessly above your level? There will always be people above and below you. We have a set of cards we have been dealt, but it’s what we do with them that matters. Will ever reach that level of success? Maybe, maybe not, but the fact remains: if you’re not a natural and have not been dealt the uber-good looking card, your chances of getting some pussy are exponentially higher if you are out there gaming and improving yourself.
If there is a single lesson that I got from my wingman is to be playful. Smile, joke around, and don’t take yourself too seriously. Never get pissed off for a girl being flakey or rejecting you. Don’t let it faze you because women can be irrational, childish and downright stupid. Think of it like the game it is: push forward till you can’t anymore. Didn’t work? Chalk it up and move on to to the next one.
Read More: 12 Essentials To Being A Great Wingman
Very valid point . I’ve experienced this first hand on several occasion and have come to the follow in conclusions :
– wingman only help when you are both red pill and on the same page
– don’t expect others to follow your code of honour and conduct as regards cockblocking etc .
– never assume an easy ride
My particular example is a case were I’ve done all the hard word of the open and running game on chicks only to have a blue pill ‘wing ‘ come in at the end and ‘accidentally ‘ piss on my parade . I’ve noticed it’s like good cop bad cop .. If u game chicks red pill style ie aggressive and then a blue pill wing comes in later the contrast is so great they nearly always are drawn to the blue pill guy as you’ve already softened them up . It’s annoying . Also I call it ‘grey knighting ‘.. Blue pill wingman that never admit they are Gaming and come across as ‘not that type’ but you KNOW they are running game just a very beta version that seems to slip in under chicks radar .
Solution : go it alone
It wasn’t that your wingman was good/better looking than you. He has naturally adopted a red pill mind frame and attitude which women sense and find attractive. His body language and demeanor oozed what he said to you, ” bitches mean nothing to me….”
Or, even though we like to deny it, maybe a lot of it had to do with his looks, and his abundance mentality came with it. Chicken and egg, whatever. But looks do have an effect.
It is a re-enforcing efffect. Looks will deliver results, results deliver confidence and confidence will enhance looks. Virtuous cycle.
Back in the day they used to teach posture:
http://www.perkinsmuseum.org/images/gallery/large/sports_9.jpg
http://www.chasecollegiate.org/uploaded/photos/About_Us/Chase%28ing%29_History/SMS_posture_in_gym_class.jpg
And yes, they did so because they considered it necessary for virtue.
I think looks mabye help out the top 2-3% of men close without anything else. Women in the last few years have gotten so tough, that even good looking guys must have other stuff going for them, though they just have to not be needy, if not have any game. The rest of men need game for dating and for keeping women around in monogamous/polygamous relationships.
I had noticed in the last few years in Europe and especially the UK, some really physicially unattractive men consistently get attractive women as girlfriends. The problem is though that the men play second fiddle to the men and in a normal society wouldn’t even exist. The insecure women choose such men as they know the men cannot do any better. So essentially, western dating over here has become almost purely based on the women’s choices/solipsism, without male choice being a part of the equation. And of course, never mind the decreasing quality of women, in addition to never ending BS shit-testing; essentially if you’re not good looking or ‘chosen’ by the women, you are plain out of luck.
This is why I am not a fan of game, as it improves men without improving the women. And game is not as important for me as you could do everything right and still not get laid. Just being an approach machine and one works out every one in a while just because ‘she was in the mood’, seems to be the key, and that’s not game, that’s unrestrained female choice. In fact, the quality in the UK has gone down so much in the last few years, that I am thinking of moving abroad, as I preferred Hungary and the like when I lived in Europe. Western women’s choices are f*cked up, because they are f*cked up – its no wonder we are seeing so many problems in recent years as a consequence of this.
google for youtube, tyler, RSD… he’s cold approaching girls, he literally grabs one that’s getting into a taxi to go home and makes out with her on the spot… the guy is the zen warrior of pickup, he takes it to a whole other level… and he’s far from attractive like Brad Pitt….
Read both your comments. Very solid in my opinion. I would like to point out this:
“So essentially, western dating over here has become almost purely based on the women’s choices/solipsism, without male choice being a part of the equation.”
and this:
“Just being an approach machine and one works out every one in a while just because ‘she was in the mood’, seems to be the key, and that’s not game, that’s unrestrained female choice.
”
You’ve just described the end-goal of feminism. Unrestrained female sexuality and choice with maximally restrained male sexuality and choice (i.e. it can be construed as “harassment” if you try to hit on a girl and you’re not who she wants to fuck).
Remember the 80/20 rule. While that number may not be exact, the point is the “natural order” is for most men to sexually starve. I read some of the comments on this site and it becomes apparent to me that a lot of the “red-pill” crowd are really the “purple-pill” crowd as one commenter aptly put it. They accept some of the harsh realities of the red pill but only in the context that they think everything will be ok in the end assuming they tweak a few things. Or that there will be some sort of Karmic force that gets even on women. The real red pill, real truth, is harsher, and some guys will go without no matter how hard they try, and some will get a lot with relative ease. And that women, although they might not get EVERYTHING they want, will on average get a lot more of what they want in life then most men.
Tyler Durden is creepy as fuck, RSD is a commercial product and the videos are promotional material. Infomercials.
If you want to learn something watch people in the wild. And cats.
Like ’em or not, you can learn a shit ton about life just from watching cats.
You do realize those RSD promo video’s are fake right? Paid actors.
Don’t forget the strikeouts not shown and the beatings not delivered by angry boyfriends. In my club days, I saved countless guys like that from a trip to the hospital for trying that with the wrong guy’s girl. Most doormen will watch a sidewalk beating and laugh while calling play by play for comedy. In my opinion, guys that operate like this are taking huge risk for a very low % reward. I mean, come on. If the average guy were to try that with 100 hot women and get back to ROK, how many bangs do you think it would lead to? On what % would you bet, I’ll take 0-3%. You can have 4-100%. Even odds on that? You’re off yer rocker if you take that bet.
They do have an effect but when it comes to closing, the 20/80 rule applies. Looks help you close 20% of the time but game helps you close 80% of the time. There’s no point in looking like george clooney and being an omega around girls. In fact Brad Pitt couldn’t land a date in his early years of being in Hollywood
If it was 80% game, black men or short men would get laid in asia and by attractive women more often. It’s looks and status that matter for 95%. The remaining 5% might be novelty or something.
That’s a bunch of BS. Once she’s hooked on your looks, there’s no game required. I don’t call saying “I want to fuck you now”, and taking her back to your place ‘game’. Been there, done that, many times.
Short white men do get laid in Asia though. Depends on the country.
Game in Asia is way different than game in the US.
Read up on some of Roosh Vs stuff. Try some subtle status, wealth, and intelligence displays.
When you are black you have already lost.
Yes, true. Black men do not though.
Where in Asia are you talking about ? Have you tried Thailand ?
Thai chicks are ugly and have dicks. I’m talking China, Taiwan, Klorea, and Japland.
If your a dick to others calling them all ugly then dont bitch when they do the same to you.
Exactly. That’s why I do it.
Im home free because im white. I dont goto africa because black chicks are ugly and have weird afro hair
Exactly. He’s not trying to get girls to like them while you are. He has demonstrated much higher value than you by looking better and not giving a fuck. And I question your definition of “game”. Do you mean inner game? Or spewing a bunch of canned material a la Mystery?
fucking delusional
Food for thought:
Such an empirical study innit.
i think you should check out goodlookingloser.com
no joke they cover the bases pretty well and identify the main components of what gets a woman fuck ready.
in short, yes looks are hugely important, yes how a person dresses, how socially free /[where they are in the hierarchy] they are, how good you are [killer instinct/game], and how sexually available the women they are trying to get is at the time [exclusivity has nothing to do with, just talking about how down to fuck they are at that moment].
its a nice site, because rather than red pill theory/a holistic take on the manosphere [which i love and which is why i come here] there it is all about action, and thats good sometimes. it helps stop alpha keyboard jockeyness.
true true
game, set, and match, that. wow.
I’m increasingly of the opinion that looks are (OK, nearly) as important for guys as they are for girls.
this kind of case study just serves to reinforce that belief.
This is on point. His frame was superior.
“I got to see firsthand how a natural behaves in the field, how slutty women can be and why I should be ashamed to have ever had them up in a pedestal.”
And that’s why you never marry them.
There’s always going to be a better looking guy approaching your “special” girl, always.
And she will give in, eventually. Especially in this day and age where looks is what gets you laid.
Just to add to my last comment. You can buy the cow(marry her) but you will not be the only one drinking her milk.
Two Wolves can split a kill, but *two men can’t split a woman.
*Technically you can split her, but both of you better have good balance and a set of ground rules longer than the Magna Carta. Having a referee present to call fouls isn’t a bad idea either.
Maybe if a guy is extremely good looking things are different, but… If your wingman is better looking than you, all he needs to do to stop stealing your thunder is isolate his girl ASAP. If it’s two on two, break up into two one on one conversations ASAP, even if you’re still two feet from each other. If you stay in group conversation and his presence is stronger, you’ll lose.
I covered this here:
Missing link
Oh come on. I mean, sure, he’s a bit rough around the edges, but don’t you think you’re exaggerating just a bit?
That’s terrible, man…
I can resist everything but temptation.
The thing that makes Big Trouble in Little China work is something that most of its original reviewers missed completely.
Kurt Russell plays a character who is the comedy sidekick, but thinks he is the protagonist.
The key to a good wingman is making sure you have different taste in women. I am tall and I like tall (5′ 9+) girls. My best wing men have been short and like short girls. Easy. But, then, I rarely use wingmen. Day game has become my focus.
Being a wingman is tough because hardly ever do women accept being passed off to another man. They are usually set on you, and it is kind of insulting to passively say through your actions “I’m not interested, but my friend is”.
What is supposed to happen is what the author described in the lesson. The friend is supposed to watch and learn from the wingman. However, the majority of men don’t do this. They would rather just try their chances of a girl accepting being laterally tossed to them. I’ve never had a friend reach any sort of success on any girls that I have wing-manned for them at bars and parties.
Exactly. The act of passing a woman on to another man is inadvertent gamesmanship, even if all you’re doing is being a good friend and paving the way for your buddy with her. Of course she’s going to be fixated on the man who shows so little interest in her as to send her to another guy.
Looks are 90%, game is 10% when you are an average Joe. If you happen to be a celebrity than you dont need game or looks.
I think this is more true these days than perhaps a decade ago. It truly is turning into as Roosh said, game + fame/social status + looks.
I still think guys can ‘discover a niche’ and niche game is the future, as cold approaching to only convert 2-3% like the best top gurus, is too hard a grind for many, as these gurus do not have regular day job commitments.
I think a last point to be made is that even red pill men may subconsciously want you to fail, even if they get laid a lot. Its an ego boost to some of them and people get locked into their ‘social roles’. Daygaming alone or niche gaming will get better results for you as opposed to the BS society says we should do which often doesn’t work (go out at nights and spend a lot of money to often not get laid). At least when you do things your way, you are looking out for number 1, because other guys and girls don’t give two sh1ts about checking their solipsism and helping you out – we all have to be ruthless emotional-state-controlled mercenaries these days, at work and at play.
Great point about the time tradeoff. I have long argued with friends that once a guy has a high income earning profession, trade, gig or whatever, PUA stuff is not worth the time. This is the unsaid ‘big lie’ that guys selling PUA stuff never want to discuss, albeit from what I’ve seen Roosh is remarkably honest in his take on things. Personally, I can’t see how a guy making 100+k a year can afford to spend his time chasing women. If they come to you with no effort and they are actually what you want, good on you. Those two conditions do not occur, and likely never will, for the vast majority of men. So where does that leave an intelligent man? Take what you can get for no effort, rent the good stuff and spend all of your physical and mental effort doing the things that matter…..like getting rich, bodybuilding, MMA, snowboarding, mountaineering, motorcycles, etc.
Oh yea, I’m old. Like 40 old so my perspective may not exactly resonate with the just turned 20 crowd. No matter, just my thoughts. Incorporate them or wipe yer arse with em, it doesn’t matter.
I agree with you. 10,000 hours of self-improvement and work or 10,000 hours of PUA/’gaming’? Only one will permanently improve a man’s value, sexual or otherwise. Not that you oughtn’t understand basic precepts of game to avoid being a beta cashcow, but at some point it’s better to spend time on yourself.
You need both. I think the red pill community has a lot of “late-bloomers” so a lot of them aren’t aware of the fact that they’re better looking than they think, so when they start trying with women later in their 20s they think it’s simply “game” and underestimate their own looks. In essence, a lot of the guys who are successful and highly emphasize game are guys who already had the right pieces in areas a man can’t change (height, facial looks) and simply had to make changes to the more malleable parts (muscularity, personality/game, style). For them, their success blew up, as they had most the puzzle and were just missing the final piece, one which they had control over at that. Just my take on it.
I agree, many men don’t realize that when they swallow the red pill in their late twenties their value is on the rise and the girls who never looked at them when they were 18 are starting to panic and are still on the shelf about to hit the wall.
I actually find it insulting when these girls use the ‘man up’ tactic on men they wouldn’t have looked twice at ten years ago, thinking the imbalance of power that once existed is still in their favor; I don’t think so somehow…
I’ve seen a guy with 99% looks and 0 game strike out. Sure he can get random girls number, get attractions, get invited to things, hell even facebook messages from friend of a friend of a friend asking him to coffee or movie, but soon as he opens his mouth it’s all foul balls.
If he just had an ounce of game he could go from 7 month dry spells and 0 girlfriend to laid every weekend with a harem.
Bro, sounds like me. I understand how fucked up modern women are and can’t even bring myself to deal with them anymore. I literally ignore every chick who I don’t have to talk to. I cringe whenever I hear anything remotely feminist. Yet, my dick needs to be fed, and my new knowledge is making me wonder whether this is a path to even consider. You know where I can go to learn game and deal with both my approach anxiety and my utter disgust? Give me someone with a better track record than Roosh (no offense dude).
Why do guys like you write statements like this under every single post? As if this is some sort of concrete knowledge that you with all of your credibility has to share with people. Seems like you’re trying to provoke some sort of emotional retaliation or you’re just downright whining.
Maybe it’s Daniel Craig.
Just trying to get the point across. What would you suggest instead?
I also have a friend who is always drowning in female attention. As a college freshman in a fraternity, I’m not even sure if he has gotten laid because he never makes moves or closes. He has trouble continuing and building attraction but he always has girls desiring him. On the other hand, one of the hardest pulling guys in my house has acne, never works out, and is on the short side. He is just a fun guy and after he pushes a few times, women realize how cool he is and go with it.
Anyone who is a detractor of game just hasn’t seen the benefits yet. Can everyone sleep with 10’s every night? No way. Can everyone be sleeping with a largER number of MORE attractive chicks than they are now? Yes. This is the point of game, improvement should always be the goal.
An average Joe can still improve his looks a great deal by improving his body and style. He’ll never achieve male model status but he’ll rise well above where he may be today.
Agree. Realistically speaking, game is just self improvement, and for most people any kind of self improvement will work in their favour.
A lot of men out there are decent looking but don’t wear clothes that highlight their physique or have terrible haircuts etc. Haircuts are a big thing for women nowadays. I noticed a huge difference in female attention years ago when i had clean and a somewhat fashionable looking haircut as opposed to the mess i was sporting before. Some women find the ‘messy-unmade-bed’ look appealing, but most do not, especially in America. It gets you further in some parts of Europe though.
I sport long hair and a beard myself but I keep it all in good condition as well as being physically fit and a sharp dresser, so I avoid being mistaken for a hobo. I’m based in England too so I’d be very interested to see how the look worked in America.
Don’t hate me because I’m pretty.
It comes down to contrast game, you don’t have to be the best looking option just the best one in the room or at that moment. A better looking/taller wingman can definitely steal your thunder, or
even value leech implicitly.
If you are the one opening chicks and jumpstarting conversation, while the better looking guy stands behind, being aloof and mysterious or simply not saying anything, and only joining the conversation after you’ve done all the leg work, he’s got the advantage over you.
I’ve had the experience of taking a friend under my wing and introducing him to game, after he got depressed after being dumped by a chick. I’m 5’10 he’s about 6’2, with a cute face apparently. (Random drunk chicks have mentioned it frequently).
He has fucked chicks that I’ve made out with or pre-gamed days previous, before I got a chance too, or cock-blocked implicitly, I could be a bitch and complain: hey! She was my target! The game equivalent of a beta saying: You knew I liked her!
But what’s the point. It’s weak, bitch attitude to have.
I’ve out gamed taller friends, easily in the past, that I used to actively hang out with in clubs, and that were game aware (I’ve moved city’s since then) but they were just tall, not tall and facially attractive. And there lies the difference.
A wingman that outranks you in SMV means a change in tactics, I don’t know what tactics could be used against someone game aware with natural born assets, yet. But solo game may be used exclusively in my future.
Because at this stage, I’m feeding him, while disadvantaging myself: If I want the night to go anywhere I have to take the lead, he will simply wait around for mediocre girls to open him. Or value leech from the sets I open.
A good quote, that I feel reflects this is;
Go up close to your friend, but do not go
over to him! We should also respect the enemy in our friend.
~Friedrich Nietzsche
Respect the enemy in our friend… They may even
be a great friend, but ultimately life is a competition.
Let me tell you as the good looking guy (i.e. I’ve had girls leave me notes on my car saying I was “hot” and with their numbers), the reason your wingman was getting attention was because of his good looks but the reason the bitches were in heat for him is because of his energy. Another thing is when you’re good-looking, girls’ insecurity levels tend to rise (why they were fighting for his attention – only insecure people feel the need to do that nonsense). What I’ve noticed is some will be sweet and submissive because of this but some will turn resentful/jealous when other girls or their girlfriends look at you. Ask your new friend and I’m sure he’ll have stories of the bullshit he’s had to deal with – that’s why he has that cool attitude and doesn’t depend on his good-looks to get girls. Trust me, good looks are a tremendous asset but doesn’t mean shit without masculine energy and learning the art of seduction.
What I’ve noticed is some will be sweet and submissive because of this
but some will turn resentful/jealous when other girls or their
girlfriends look at you.
Resentment and jealousy seems to be a particular problem if a girl’s hotness is 2 points or more below her girlfriend’s. Probably one big reason girls usually form friendships with girls who are about as hot as they are. A fat 4 can’t hang around with a 9 for long before she gets tired of her 9 friend getting all the attention.
you just needed more confidence bro… that guy could have been tall, masculine looking, full hairline, tanned, ripped and with great facial proportions perfectly fitting the ideal standards of male beauty, but it’s obvious that he had more confidence than you..
incelrage.com
hehe this… more than most here would care to admit.
Hmm… sounds like you were a male 7 and he was a 9. I guess if you want a wingman, get one who’s equal or slightly lower than you.
Looks and height seem to be factors for men to an extent — tall good-looking guys can get away with much more beta behavior than short ugly ones. But I also expect that favorable height and looks increase a man’s confidence.
I contend that even needing a wingman is blue pill.
Needing a wingman may be, but having one because it’s fun isn’t. Of course, the main problem there is even finding a fellow red-piller…
I would love to find a fellow red-piller to wingman with.
It would be a useful resource to have wouldn’t it.
Fuck. No kidding. My blue pill buddies are totally useless. Their way of “picking up chicks” is to run after a pretty girl and say something like “I just wanted to tell you, you’re really pretty.”.. It’s so fucking awkward, I actually APOLOGIZED to the girl on his behalf once.
…. of course he comes back to join me at the table, and when he catches his breath, he says: “She has a boyfriend”.
I look at him with a blank stare:
“And you believed her.”
Then I just go back to eating and let it fester in his mind for a while. I can’t be hanging out with people who are so out of it anymore. It cramps my style.
Please be sure to invite me to the next Red Pill convention. Wherever that may be.
Achilles may have faced Hector in single combat, but Thermopylae would have fallen in minutes if every man on the line didn’t have a right hand man whose shield side could cover his spear side.
Agreed but the breeding stock Achilles had to choose his wingmen from was of much higher quality than that available to the modern warrior.
Bingo. It doesn’t take more than one man to talk to a woman.
—-
I’ve also noticed that when two guys are out, as soon as you add ONE female into the mix, the dynamic changes. No matter who the “wingman” is, you can feel friction and competition. One-upping, as it were. It’s subtle but it’s there.
A dog is a GREAT Wingman.
Use your imagination here.
Define ‘need’. True, but strawman on this post’s comment thread if you define it narrowly enough to be true. Patriarchy and ladyship and just civilization require ‘wingmen’. “Bitches mean nothing to me, brother, let’s just have a great time and hit on some other girls.” That is the start of a rival patriarchy, a rival social order, and that is why red pill is with a bullet toward cultural enemy #1.
I have close friends and I would never have them be a wingman if I understand the duties of a wingman correctly. A wingman is a tool and I dont use my friends as tools.
However, I am of the older set who has achieved what he wants. Mid forties, making good bank, married for 25 years to a ultra-loyal, ultra-traditional 7, good kids, and a nice side piece or two. I may be a bit out of touch with what our younger brothers face.
i think looks only make girls below throw themselves at you. game is about getting girls 1 or 2 points above you 3 if youre lucky.
in other words if your face is an 8; 7s and below will throw themselves at you. but youll need some game to get the 8 n 9.
keep in mind some women are intimidated by handsome cause they might cheat they get more attention then her
Agree. I know a good looking guy that mostly bangs 5’s and 6’s because he lacks game and confidence unless he is drunk. I always tell him off but he doesn’t want to listen. I have only seen him hook up with two good looking women in my entire life and he thinks he got lucky on both occasions. He is right of course but not necessarily in the way he thinks.
He thinks women mostly care about ‘witty banter’ and ‘money’. It’s true they are important, and it annoyed him greatly when his old gf dumped him for a short bald man with a decent job, but the dude’s main problem is lack of game – bottom line!
This is the dark side of having a wingman that has a superior frame to you. Don’t use looks to rationalise the root of the problem.
The truth is looks isn’t the only source of that mindset, other factors such as intelligence and social standing can play a part.
.
.
The secret key with having the good looking wingman who getting one who also happens to be a chubby chaser.
One of my roommates in college was a abercrombie-model type. Words cannot describe the shock/awe look on these hot bitches faces after a big group of chicks comes over to a party at our place expecting to compete over him, and he immediately ignores the cute ones and takes down the fat friend of the group!! It made the good looking ones fairly easy pickings. Sure they initially wanted him, but after seeing him just bang their fat friend it did something to their minds and made them easy prey. You never had to worry about him taking your target, as he would always go for the fatty of the group every single time. We were supposed to make a trophy of him falling on a grenade and title it “Wingman of the Centruy” and hand it to him for his 100th bang party, but we never followed through on that idea. I definitely regret it as he at least doubled my bang count in college.
I cannot emphasize this enough. Looks don’t mean a thing to women. Their attraction is triggered by confidence dominance and an aloof ” I don’t give a luck ” attitude . Often times these qualities are paired with good looks in men, but not always.
A man with solid frame and tight game will steal women from pretty boys everytime.
I loathe the day I have a blogger observing, evaluating, and writing about my game unknowingly and not minding his own girls/business.
The day is coming, I know it. There are too many of you around and you’re too nosy.
You sound soft to be honest.
In the late 90s/early 00s wingmen were helpful. I have noticed though if the man is better looking he gets more attention. When i returned to study in my early 30s i was hanging out this guy that was an oddball but apparently women found him attractive. In the first year women didn’t pay much attention, but in the final year whenever we were talking to women they would generally ignore me and used closed body language. They would literally turn away from me. One on one i could get attention but the reality is that no matter where the woman was on a scale of 1-10, she was more interested in talking to the better looking man. In almost every case the women in question were less attractive than women i’ve personally dated too.
Game does help but only if the better looking man you roll with is a complete dunce.
I have been in the author’s situation. It has been demonstrated that being judged on looks while standing next to a great looking guy makes you look worse, not better. The guy I go out with gets stared at by girls, approached by girls, and gets girls orbiting around me all night as an excuse to latch onto him at the end of the night. I also get approached by girls giving me their numbers for him, and asking for his number. I can also verify that girls will approach me and flirt in order to get to him, just like we do to get the hot chicks. I can also assure you girls flirt badly with him and make clumsy drunken passes too.
I am pretty mediocre, so this can be quite disheartening at times, I wont lie.
What I have learned to take advantage of is all of the extra exposure to women that I wouldn’t get without him being there. While it is disheartening the ‘overflow’ is usually better and easier than having to put in the work I would have to on my own. Also, if I have a few extra drinks and lower my standards slightly, there’s plenty of 6’s in the form of less attractive friends (me being the other less attractive friend) that don’t require much work. He also provides lots of networking opportunities.
This a good article with a good point. Your wingman needs to match and compliment you. I have had the exact same experience. Better game can overcome this, but do you really want to be competing with your buddy?
Looks, particularly height and then mediterranean features, matter and matter a lot. Yes, game can be used to overcome this, but if you are in cities like Toronto or Copenhagen, your game has to be perfect. Slip on one shit-test and you’re done. Adding a wingman who is significantly better looking than you only makes your job harder, not easier, thus defeating the purpose of having one.
There is way too much over analysis of the male/female dynamic on this site. Whether we like it or not the genetic elite rule every sphere of human activity, however every man should remember that FORTUNE IS STRONGER THAN REASON. What this means in practice is no matter who you are, your circumstances or what you look like there will ALWAYS be women who are interested in you – in every city in the world. Sure only a tiny percentage of men naturally have continuous access to the top girls on the planet, but as a man improves himself so his options will improve. We need to deal with this reality, focus on self improvement mechanisms and stop obsessing over the obvious.
Great article. It is the great man, that finds a means to rise above his station in life to greater avenues of wealth and power
Looks matter – but fortunately for men, what women consider good looking encompasses such a wide variance on the spectrum that in the end they matter very little. Unless the man can back up that initial attraction with strong inner game underpinned by healthy self esteem and self belief then it’s game over. That’s me in my avatar, and I’m just coming off a one year drought where I couldn’t even get laid in a brothel because of some serious confidence issues resulting from a bad breakup.
As a girl I find myself more attracted to guys who are persistent but are clearly just out to have a good time without any expectations. Nonchalance is the root of good game!
Who writes these articles?
This is nonsense.
You could have a Brad Pitt as your wingman, yet if he’s an emasculated pussy who won’t say anything, then you have nothing to worry about. Because women don’t respond to looks, that’s a masculine thing.
Women respond to courage, and in that regard the initiator ALWAYS has an advantage over the vulture-like wingman who hovers around the periphery. I’ve never seen a woman respect that sort of behaviour. Wingmen never get laid.
Drop your wingman, and go it alone.
You didn’t have a wingman, darjohanson… you WERE the wingman, you just didn’t realise!
Looks and game are not so easy to separate in two distinct things: good looks (especially being tall) give u better game already:
– your target automatically perceive your value as higher;
– in a society where women in clubs often wear 12-15 cm heels (I live in eastern Europe) approaching them at least on their same level or above is already a good start compared to “coming form below”;
– you are probably getting laid more than the average guy, so you have a way better than average natural inner game (and not based on NLP or some other trickery);
– for the same above reason you will not make any neediness-related mistakes that the regular guy could do, even if he has some game;
– even if you are not an approach machine or your openers are weak, if you are good looking you often get more chances to have a conversation with a potential target than the regular guy and so on…
Said that, studying (and practicing) GAME DOES HELP. I am an average short (1.70) 30-smth guy, and basically all my latest notches where a practical application of game and not the hit-or-miss shit I used to do before knowing about it. It didn’t totally change my sexual life beacuse I still see most good looking TALL guys that don’t know shit about game getting a lot more notches than me, and with apparently minimal efforts, but I am actually doing somehow better now than I was before… knoweldge is power in any field after all.
Did I really just sit here and read all 94 comments?! What the fuck is wrong with me…
I think this all depends on the attractiveness/status gap between the guys. My buddy and I clean up even though I know he’s better looking than me but not by much. Since neither of us treats the other like a subordinate, chicks will still flock to us usually having already decided which one they want the attention of.
I’m on the other end, I’ve been helping a friend out and of the two of us he’s the beta and I’m the “natural.” For me I have significantly more success when I’m going solo than when I’m helping him out with the approaches. Girls judge. Period. And if you’re with a less good looking person (male or female) your value drops.
I can concur with this..I have a mate that sucks all females around him in like he is a black hole.Get caught up in his vortex and you get nothing..He’s actually wing man is better looking and taller than him..When I mentioned what it’s like to go out with this guy he’s wing man actually high 5’d me as no one would believe that it wasn’t him that was bringing in the women.It was pissing him off that everyone thought it was him.He even went as far as taking photos to prove it wasn’t him.The natural brings them in all the time every time.
He has not studied game he knows nothing of pick up..Yet women come up to him and compete they offer themselves and every hole they have got…I’ve witnessed this first hand,I’ve heard it and watched it as it goes down.I watch as they buy him drink upon drink .I laugh as they turn around and try to give me advice on picking up women.All the time observing their behavior as the scrape and claw for his attention.
I have to move away but have to overwatch as men do get jealous and a fight can break out when he goes out.He is pretty handy in a fight…and has 100 % confidence .I would rate his looks as a 7 though..he is the one that showed me it isn’t all about looks.
I have gone out with him and scored but only because I kept waving shy women over when I caught their IOIs.Once he’s swamped I walk off but with momentum on my side after talking to so many babes which means more women know me in the venue that is the upside..again he does not read IOIs as the aggressive one’s approach him ,basically within 10 minutes them or their best friend actually tell him they want to fuck…this his lawyers, strippers, doctors, teachers from 18 to 50.
Walking down the street with him is an IOI fest..But he does not notice.
I like the guy because he flips the script but won’t take game advice off him except on position..he never approaches which is what I have to do.He has no concept of guys that are not blessed with he’s gift.
He has been to the States and picked up a the airport when he landed at LAX..well he got picked up within 10 minutes of landing he’s wing man says.