The contemporary Western prison system is a disaster. It is overcrowded, especially in the US, where more than two million adults are incarcerated—more than in China, which has thrice the American population. It is expensive: the incarceration of an inmate costs, on the average, between $20,000 and $60,000 per year, resulting in no less than $212 billion spent in 2011 (that is, in one year) to cover the judicial, police, and correction costs. And, perhaps the worst thing, it is inefficient at protecting the good people from the violent and the insane. These grow in “no-go” zones and pour from unprotected borders.
Recognizing the inefficiency of the prison system, some governments in Europe tried to change it rather oddly. It has been especially true in France, where a living leftist symbol, the former Guiana separatist Christiane Taubira, was appointed Minister of Justice to conduct an absurd reform. Under the pretense of jail overcrowding, and of a leftoid totem pole called “prevention,” the sentences turned lighter: house arrest with an electronic bracelet in lieu of incarceration; non-application of conditioned sentences for the recidivists; no minimum penalty; no more searches at the parlor; early releases. As a result, chronic offenders were released and were not long to assault innocent people again.
Here I would like to consider a forgotten type of sentence: flogging. Deemed as “barbaric” and “old” by the progressive—who prefer letting free rein to the worst crimes as long as they can turn a blind eye on them—flogging has been used for ages. It has been practiced by a variety of cultures. When one goes beyond the haughty “but it’s the current year” prejudice, one can see that flogging criminals could actually be an efficient solution to a host of chronic problems.
1. Flogging is a real deterrent
No matter how powerful a gang leader is, flogging is the same to him
Individuals answer to incentives. Rewards and punishments are an important guide in daily life. Today, prison is a deterrent for normal, civilized persons, but it has long ceased to be for those who dwell in a thug culture. Thugs boast about their condemnations as if they were something to be proud of. In jail, they are surrounded with inmates who are just like them—in stark contrast with more civilized types who, to them, will appear as frail.
In France, prisons have become directed by gang leaders. These have enough influence on other inmates to have them rioting or pressuring a particular prison guard or inmate. Guards, whose testimonies make hair stand on end, have been forsaken by a bureaucracy that wants no fuss. They turn a blind eye on bloody settlements of accounts, on drug and cell phone trafficking. (In 2015, 30.000 cellphones have been confiscated, and that is but the tip of the iceberg.) Gang leaders keep communicating with their (anti)social networks from inside the prison. Islam has become prevalent to the point that 80% inmates are practicing Muslims: young Frenchmen, hopeless in such an environment, often convert, while Muslims and thugs feel at home.
Prison is still a deterrent for normal people. It ceased to be so for delinquents. Delinquents must be duly punished in order to be deterred. No more assaulted guards, no more gang leaders exerting underground power over jails and beyond, no more inmates feeling at home: just flog them.
2. Flogging avoids the “crime school” effect
In January 2015, these inmates from the Baumettes (south of France) published photos of themselves living like in a vacation camp
It is often said on the left that prison is a school for crime. Someone early in his twenties goes to jail for a petty crime, say, a nonviolent theft. Before jail, he may have been unruly, but the universe of crime was still something foreign to him. In jail, he meets with hardened criminals, chronic offenders, guys who have a lot of experience of crime and constantly talk about it. In jail, he hardens himself in order to survive, both physically and mentally. Once he is out, far from being cured of his criminal tendencies, he will often still be part of a gang or thug network and live in a culture of crime.
This is a valid point. But what do we do then? If we remain inside the left’s usual walls, we face a dilemma: either those who commit unlawful—and especially violent—acts are let free, which allows them to reoffend, or they go to jail, where they harden as criminals.
Neither of these solutions is ultimately satisfying. On the other hand, being sentenced to whipping avoids both disadvantages. If you receive ten or twenty whiplashes, you will not learn to commit crimes, to scheme, or be pressured to convert to Salafi Islam. Flogging sentences safely avoid teaching how to be a criminal and merely teach not to be one.
3. Flogging is cheap and consequently fairer to the taxpayers
Rikers Island, the prison complex where one can find New York’s most expensive apartments (Business Insider, “New York’s Most Expensive Apartments Are Jail Cells,” August 23, 2013)
The prison system is very expensive. Some inmates work, but what they produce is far from paying even a small part of the cost of the system they live in. The burden falls on the taxpayers’ shoulders and contributes to the ever-growing public debt. Both ways, the average worker is ultimately the one who has to pay for it, even when he is a victim of the delinquents he isn’t even really protected from.
Having the victims paying for their assaulters is unfair. Having them paying for a system that fails to reform the criminals is even worse. A cheaper sentence would be fairer to those who have to pay for it—and it would benefit the nation’s economy in the long run.
4. Delinquents could keep their place inside society
Flogging allows for a punishment without stigma and without uprooting: that guy may have committed a crime, he paid for it, won’t do it again, and you do not need to know
If you get sentenced to years of jail, you will be separated from where you are used to live. These years will be a blank part of your CV. When you get out, if you evolve in a normal culture, you may have a stigma from your stay in prison and difficulties finding employment again. (If you evolve in a thug culture, your return will be celebrated as if you were a hero, but then you are unlikely to have anything good to offer.)
Flogging only takes a moment. It can be done discretely. Instead of spending, say, five years in jail, you could simply take some days off, then be back at work and resume with your daily life. No occupational de-integration, less space for thug culture, a system that punishes without destroying the social fabric.
5. No more corporations outsourcing their work to inmates
“Inmates’ labor is a very good thing, it helps them being rehabilitated, especially if they spend many years working for me… I mean, working for society and their own improvement, eh eh”
According to Wikipedia,
About 18% of eligible prisoners held in federal prisons are employed by UNICOR and are paid less than $1.25 an hour. Prisons have gradually become a source of low-wage labor for corporations seeking to outsource work to inmates. Corporations that utilize prison labor include Walmart, Eddie Bauer, Victoria’s Secret, Microsoft, Starbucks, McDonald’s, Nintendo, Chevron Corporation, Bank of America, Koch Industries, Boeing and Costco Wholesale.
A more precise article adds:
Under current law, all physically able inmates who are not a security risk or have a health exception are required to work, either for UNICOR or at some other prison job. Inmates earn from US$0.23 per hour up to a maximum of US$1.15 per hour, and all inmates with court-ordered financial obligations must use at least 50% of this UNICOR income to satisfy those debts.
And though UNICOR was basically owned by government, allowing it to be the sole beneficiary of inmates’ labor, the company became gradually privatized. Corporate fat cats, always prowling for cheap labor and legal tax evasion—while the middle class is collapsing under the weight of high taxes, debt, and precarious work—became able to benefit from a very cheap labor. This is one of the “secrets” behind Walmart’s unbeatably small prices, which have driven more than a small business to bankruptcy whereas the average Joe was blissfully happy to consume cheaply.
“Nationalize losses, privatize profits”: this is what happened with UNICOR and the inmates required to work. Now, if there were less prisoners due to the commutation of prison sentences into flogging sentences, the flogged could keep working for a fair wage—thus benefiting themselves and other small-scale businesses as well—instead of being used as near-slaves for the global elite.
6. A Manly Punishment
Indeed.
Prussian officers used to fight each other in traditional sword plays. When their duels resulted in them being scarred, they were usually proud of it, as scars were considered as marks of bravery.
In the same fashion, someone having chosen to be flogged instead of going to jail, if one could choose, would likely have a healthier pride of his experience. Today, those who are proud of having been jailed are usually the kind of individuals who propagate a toxic thug culture. Instead, having been flogged would be a healthier source of pride: one would not boast about frequenting the aforementioned “crime school,” but of having survived moments of intense pain.
Said pride would be fully compatible with the drive to behave well, as the proud flogged would also be efficiently deterred from straying again.
Conclusion
Due to the hegemonic progressive culture, flogging has been either deemed a “barbarian” thing of the past or is thought about as the prerogative of “backward” governments, like North Korea or Iran. Yet, this good old punishment has a variety of advantages which make it worthwhile to reassess. It is efficient, straightforward, and beneficial to the social fabric and to the economy as a whole.
If the delinquents and criminals were given a choice between jail and the flog, or if some of them were sentenced to mandatory flogging, they might be really deterred and would go back to work honestly; the jail system would be freed from its continuous overpopulation, and various breeds of corrupts or exploiters—gang leaders, corrupt prison guards, corporate fat cats—would lose some of their grip on society.
When we manage to get in power, we should really consider reinstating flogging.
Read next: 5 Best Countries Where It’s Great To Be A Criminal
I’m generally not one to support cops or government in any capacity, but I have to say, this video always brings a big cheshire cat smile to my face. Wrong? Probably. But still, a guilty pleasure. Cops flogging and macing stupid feminist bitches. Classic.
Could you imagine this happening in the USA? I’d send the cops some fresh donuts and coffee.
I want to emigrate to Russia even more after seeing this.
I don’t know, brother. They seem a little too inclined to do it in the US as it is. And here, they’re far more inclined to do it against us. Still, that said, I would happily participate in a Pussy Riot Beatdown, if the opportunity presented itself.
The cops here have no restraint once they decide that you need a beat down. They’re really savages. I get having to use violence sometimes, but this paramilitary sunglasses thug shit is no better than the ghetto gangs in my view.
Worse, I would say. In my experience, a single man of firm will can hold his own, and more, against a poorly armed group of thugs. Not so, the police. They are organized, better armed, and, even if one was to successfully defend oneself against them, more numerous. The so-called law is on there side.
I can hold off three thugs with knives.
I can’t hold off fifty thugs with assault rifles, helicopters, sniper rifles and tanks.
In my experience, it’s worse in states with gun control. Cops in LA and NY are a nightmarish 180 from the cops in gun happy cities like Houston. Guns keep the government in check so to speak.
Exactly! Out of sheer nature I have had no interactions with cops but from my experience they are idiotic thugs with guns. Was pulled over, while walking once with friends, because someone robbed a local Carvel Ice cream store. They stole a whale cake no less. Now this cop sees me with a Subway’s sandwich on my person and we all had backpacks which could feasible house a cake, but the material was so cheap the cake would have melted through it. If it weren’t for friends, I might have been one less guy posting and there would have been one less cop walking the beat.
Fudgie the Whale has much value on the street son!
There’s nothing more lucrative than pinching whale cake. That shit has supa bank potential on the streets.
Have to agree.
Damn straight- its value is time-sensitive- blow doesnt melt
Have you had the Kratom Whale Cake? It’ll make you more rigid than rebar.
In my city feminists go dressed as Pussy Riot and beat people with bats, every year. Then these feminists accused a guy that didnt even defend himself, and won the trial. All local newspapers celebrated it… its just incredible.
Meanwhile in Russia…
What city is this? Can’t imagine that happening around here as one of them would likely get shot.
http://djd9pi028g05f.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/23125320/miedo-cambiar-bando-870×580.jpg
The city is Vitoria. A total fucked up leftist and feminist shithole.
Spain? Ah that explains it. The USA isn’t so fucked up that a mob of women can bludgeon a man, then sue him for it and win (at least I hope not).
You’re spanish ? I would love to hear your opinion on Franco, since I don’t know his history that much.
Its not an isolated case. They attack random men, accuse them, and get payed. A simple criticism to feminism makes you get fired. Worse than Sweden.
Welp, mark Spain off my list of countries to visit.
Well, he was a genocidal fascist, since he was a dictator and made genocide. He forbade languages, tortured and executed hundreds of thousands of people, forbade names he didnt like… My parents and grandparents lived in fear all their life.
Anyhow you better just read about that yourself, I am not much into debating online.
Okay thanks, that’s all I needed, just asked to get a grasp on how he’s perceived by the locals. Read I will.
Try this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Franco-Biographical-History-brian-crozier/dp/0413267709
Franco was not perfect, but he was not as bad as they say. In fact he did not commit genocide, as the uninformed commenter said above.
He tortured and executed some reds, so what?
He forbade some names, so what?
He did not forbade languages, he only encouraged the use of spanish as the official language of the country, so what?
Are you a leftist?
Thank you, I’ll look into it.
Keep calm dude. I dont have to be leftist to call murderer a murderer. He prohibited with death penalty the use of Catalonian and Basque languages. It is a historical fact and something my parents suffered, so dont bullshit me with some of your nazi conspiracy theories.
He asked my opinion and I gave it. I didnt ask yours and I stated clearly that I will not use ROK for debate so keep your “so what” and “are you this or that” out my comments.
Here’s the great irony , though – had the Republicans won, Germany invades Spain right after it defeats France. The British then would lose Gibraltar. At a minimum, this delays the liberation of Algeria, Tunisia, and Sicily for a year, may be longer. Hitler failed getting Franco to join his coalition without success.
Wow, “I didnt ask yours and I stated clearly that I will not use ROK for debate so keep your “so what” and “are you this or that” out my comments.”
You are trying to keep my mouth shut? You are trying to silence me? FYI marxist scum, there is still a thing called freedom of speech, so I can say whatever the fuck I want, to whoever the fuck I want.
If you have a problem with that, I’m going to be in Spain in November, so we can make a hot date and go a few rounds.
Well now it seems Spanish women are doing it instead of Franco. 😛
I wouldn’t hold my breath on that one, if I were you.
You’re probably right. I just haven’t heard of a case in the USA where roaming gangs of feminists have been attacking men…yet.
thanks for pointing that out man. What bugs me about fascists it’s not their views but the extent to which they’re willing to go in order to alter history.
[email protected]
I could watch it all day.
Damn GhostofJefferson, I wanted to post that vid but you beat me to it lol.
I did the Youtube bounce the moment I saw the title, heh.
I fucking hate cops.
Can you make an exception for this one case?
Not at all. While I get the joke, I still find it disgusting.
It’s the most beautiful thing I ever saw.
I thought this was the most beautiful thing you ever saw:
You are German. Germans never get jokes.
Back off demon !
https://imgflip.com/readImage?iid=28604674
I do not really identify as German. Both my parents are from Czech.
It’s noteworthy how quickly a woman responds to a whip. But it is not at all surprising. Man has evolved with a sword in one hand and a whip in the other.
In fact, knowing what Indian women are like, I can totally understand now why India banned the use of beef as a food.
You may have taken control of Unabashed but you won’t get me, spawn of Satan !
Unabashed, if you hear me, you may think you’re using him, but he’s using you ! This feeling of power, of anger is consuming your soul and will eventually destroy you !
The cops actually show some restraint. They are using appropriate levels of force to subdue these little cunts, but not to torture or seriously harm them.
Agreed.
It’s all about the diet. Something about the soil conditions of the west-central European plain makes Germans humourless motherfuckers.
Fucking hysterical.
They’re too scared about the joke having a hidden antisemitic meaning.
No, I swear, I hate Jews.
That must come from your slavic blood.
…
I like how the first whiplash has a reality check effect on her.
You could almost see the feminism jumping out of her body. It wasn’t even a hard hit, and she went insta-submissive for a few seconds.
I always thought you needed a crucifix for an exorcism.
It’s beautiful. Her mind instantly switched from feminist endoctrinment to “why am I not in the kitchen ?”
Heh. Times have changed and new methods are required.
It sure shut the protest down quick. Before they were even going full-bore SJW chanting and ranting, a spray to the face, a slap with the flog and it was essentially over.
And throwing her to the ground and throwing her coat over her with contempt.
You … you won’t break me ! I may see your face on my toilet paper when I make myself to eat or in my oven when I take a shit , but I will NOT lose my sanity !!!
Germans don’t get jokes…they vote them into office.
Much of Eastern Germany (former Prussia) has sandy soil requiring alot of chemical fertilizer. Indeed, the Germans invented the stuff. The only thing that actually grows well on its own is Asparagus. I have read that Berlin has an annual Asparagus festival. Well, when all you’ve got is Asparagus, I guess you make Cream of Asparagus soup.
Reminds me of what Will Rogers said about the US Congress: “every time they make a law, it’s a joke. And every time they make a joke – it’s a law”.
I’ve had a hard time thinking of a more satisfying video than that one.
Guess you never assimilated into the land of Fritz and sour kraut! You SAVAGE!
Yeah, me too most of the time. That’s why this is a guilty pleasure. In theory I object firmly to this kind of thing. But then, I watch, and I smile. That “pussy riot” crew are hate filled feminists SJW’s in Russia. The grin I wear is a guilty one, but I wear it nevertheless.
Fair enough.
My wife and I are on really good terms with the cops in my area. I can’t really say I like or dislike them, but I figure being in good graces with the law can’t hurt. A little power play, if you will.
Not a bad idea. I do the same around here. I may hate them, but they are still human and, around my area, are more misguided than maleficent.
Not that that excuses it, of course.
I used to think like that. Untill I realized there are more crazies out there than there are corrupt cops. At least the cops have got to do their duty and protect civilians. Shit works for me.
Some of these freaks will need to be flogged twice because they’ll enjoy it the first time.
Come time, I’m of the mind to be efficient more than I am to be the Shade of Vengeance. The guilty pleasure of browbeating a Leftist senseless is tempting, but there are too many of them to take special time like that.
Work. Of. Art.
Yes this was great. Only the bitches need to be tied to a pole like the men had to suffer back in the day. These cunts would never do this again I assure you.
Good ol’ Russia!
Their mistake was keeping their clothes on.
God bless those shitlord Cossacks.
I bet they secretly love being man-handled.
I would not take that bet against you. They go insta-submissive from just a few *very light* lashes. I mean lashes that if done to me I’d point and laugh at the person doing it, but the girls transition from “Strong Empowered Wymynz!”(tm) to docile and submissive within half a second.
Plus the whole 50 Shades thing, rather demonstrates how much women really eat this shit up. I wouldn’t be surprised if later that evening most of them were rubbing one out in their homes and having multiple orgasms.
I’m slav living in Canada. I wish something like this to happen here. I could be one of these cops whiping them. Ahh so good to see russians not giving a fuck and dealing properly with degenerates.
activists
Right on. I’m not a big fan of cops or government either, but it’s good to see someone stand up for the right side.
Spot on. This echoes my thoughts on another forum so much that I have to question if it was lifted in it’s entirety. 😜 No such thing as intellectual property of social ideas, though.
Glad to see RoK embrace this idea. Many aspects of Muslim culture, like this, are simply superior to Western culture. It is unfortunate that Islam is an expansionist ideology that views beta males as expendable pawns, because otherwise it really has a lot of good qualities as far as traditional systems go.
I do feel that I should point out that the majority of ‘good’ aspects of muslim culture (and they are definitely there) were initially taken from the West. What depresses me, today, is that the Muslims are essentially more Christian (in many ways) than the Western Christians.
If we fight hard enough, maybe we can get a few more Brother Moners to help balance us out.
Does the west view beta males as anything other than expendable pawns?
Ok, I can’t really imagine a worse article than one suggesting torture.
Flogging, torture?
Yes it is torture.
In a dungeon applied mercilessly without regard to life, sure. A cop carrying a flog and smacking the sense into some idiot now and then, not so much. Beats the current trend of cops just up and shooting people for sport.
Beating a person is not torture. But letting cops flog people will become torture, just as in any other dictatorial system.
You might read Larsen Halleck’s comment further up. Flogging seems like a better option than our current system for certain crimes.
See the video I posted below. A few relatively minor hits, the girls go submissive, and a Leftist protest is shut down before it starts. Not torture at all.
Over here in the States, I’ll grant that you may be right. The cops are usually ex military and thugs, I really don’t trust them to have restraint.
Man, I live in a country where the police torturing the inocent is a daily thing. Anyway I dont want to make a big deal from this article, I just gave my opinion.
OK.
In the US, we have the highest incarceration rate in the world. 716 per 100,000. We house 22% of the world’s prisoners, while we are about 4% of the world’s population. Taking a man’s liberty and putting him in a cage is far more savage than hitting him with a cane. And most of our “crimes” are victimless crimes that should not be prosecuted in the first place. Meanwhile, you can catch a thief red-handed and the police will refuse to prosecute.
Why not just use a European crime fighting system? It has low crime rates, not one country that still has corporal punishment as a part of the justice system has low crime rates. Would you say Nigeria is a good model of a peaceful nation?
Maybe cops need some self fucking restraint? Ever thought of that? Actually, I now think it would be a good idea to use flogging on cops who abuse power. Anyways, it’s not the jobs of cops to give out punishment, go read the constitution.
Hey, dillweed, maybe you can’t tell, but I’m against cops having no self restraint, and as it turns out, I’m a huge fan of rule of law, as well as a limited government, and individual rights. Of course cops need restraint, that’s why when I said “shooting people for sport” it didn’t sound like a hearty endorsement.
Cops can use violence to break up activities though, that’s always been legal in strictly defined situations. It’s why they carry batons.
“Cops can use violence to break up activities though, that’s always been legal in strictly defined situations. It’s why they carry batons.” What kind of activities do you mean?
Cops should not be allowed to carry out the punishment on the street. Once the person is tried and convicted, the courts can have an independent, 3rd party administer the punishment.
Because it’s more than the system. People do really vary wildly from culture to culture. Part of the reason European crime rates are low is because of Europeans.
It’s not a racial thing either. Germans and Danes are more orderly than even Austrians. Albanians will still cut throats over honor, etc.
Every system must be formed to fit the people it will be applied to.
Great comment.
Oh for petes sake, they go to arrest some mugger and they’re supposed to use harsh language? You know what he means.
If it was a voluntary alternative to prison would you still consider it torture?
But so many people genuinely need to be tortured
An Iranian classmate told me once of a friend of him who got caught driving drunk in Teheran. He was sentenced to 20 slashes; it is usually 10 but he insulted the police officers and resisted arrest. He spent 2 week of barelly being able to walk because of his injuries. After that, he almost became a nondrinker.
Interesting proposal. Recall Michael Fay. I seem to remember many people being in favor of the punishment that was visited upon him.
For those not inclined to support corporal punishment, may I suggest at a minimum, we turn over all the jails and prisons to Joe Arpaio? That would address a certain subset of the issues trying to be solved by the flogging approach, anyway.
I’m all for public shaming sentences such as suggested in this article, this and adultery wives being paraded naked in the street. It’s way more civilised than locking people up in rape cages.
Flogging can be hidden from public views and remain out of the employer’s visibility, too.
When I was in the nuthouse, there was a guy from Afghanistan. He had slashes over his back, said they were from the Taliban.
Prisons should be turned into militant Christian fundamentalist indoctrination camps. The entire criminal justice system should be geared toward getting criminals to be “born again” and then re-entering society as soldiers willing to fight in Christian gangs to institute Christian values in America.
They may get so sick of the fundy lectures that they’d do anything to avoid prison.
Didn’t the Japs invent Bukkake to help keep law & order: behave or we’ll all gang up on you and come on your face!
No speeding tickets in tokyo
Yuck.
It changes the complexion of things somewhat
What, cum?
some see it as an anti-wrinkle cream. Not me personally though
https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/ay_105317379.jpg
and hair gel too.
Some PR genius needs to market it better.
This will make the male sex popular again.
Women love a pamper day
My Jap ex girlfriend is going to visit me. I’ve already saved up my occasional wank cum in the freezer to make her eat it. I might do this instead. Good idea!
She will surely be touched by your respect for her culture and the traditions of her people.
I think so, she loved it when I shoved my model of the Enola Gay into her pussy.
she’d probably appreciate a pearl harbour necklace too
You can also play her the sweet melodious tones of The Gap Band’s “You Dropped A Bomb On Me.”
Don’t you culturllly appropriate Japaneeeeze cultr you cis gendeed muh-soe-gu-neest!
the japs have a lot they can teach us. Like hard-hitting news progammes where random men jerk off onto newsreaders faces. That’s media you can trust
“The Weekly Digest”
The Tokyo subway Spray and Prayer? Oh my he’s the pocket hanker chief guys now!
Didn’t Tokyo lay on special trains so that jap men can molest women without interference
Yep, InterCity upskirt gang bang in the Disabled WC. Need a hoist and a handle if you’re getting banged from Kyoto to Sapporo.
I’ve actually toyed with this idea myself:
Namely, the 8th amendment of the US Constitution forbids “cruel and unusual punishment”. I have to ask, in prison, you’re thrown into a cage with a bunch of savages, where you’ll spend a long period of time being taunted, beaten, and raped, until you get released. Upon release, your criminal record will most likely forbid you from getting a decent job, which will, combined with the psychological trauma of the joint, most likely lead to you committing more crimes and getting sent back to prison.
Speaking strictly in terms of “Cruel and unusual punishment”, is getting 10 lashes worse than that?
Yeah, it’s amazing how economical, and fair, the old justice systems seemed to be. Did you do something REALLY stupid that you regret and could still be a functional member of society? Ten lashes.
Oops, that guy murdered somebody? Cap to the head.
You again? Straighten out, guy. Ten lashes.
Another murderer…cap to the head.
You stole again?! What is this, the third time? Sorry, guy…cap to the head.
Oh, look. No more crime. The trick would be consistency. Fair is fair, after all.
Several problems with your idea. 1) Criminals almost always judge based of fear of being caught, not fear of potential punishment. 2) What happens if you catch the wrong person? Well you now have someone really fucking pissed off and with a flogged back who didn’t do anything, that is what happens.
I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be rude, but I’m not going to give you a break down of those two questions. You really need to think them through and do a little more research. I would ask these questions to get you started:
Why would anybody fear getting caught if there was no associated punishment?
How often, even in today’s extremely broken system, are men actually convicted of lesser crimes (like petty theft, B&E, etc.), where they have later been vindicated? How strong was the case against them? How often is there any doubt as to their guilt? Remember, theoretical questions are only good in theory.
The real questions concerning corporal and capital punishment are sociological and economical. What effect would it have on society, as a whole? How much would it cost? Compared to the current system? How much room is there for corruption (this is the question that people usually mean when they ask about innocent men being sent to the gallows)?
And, of course, what checks are there on the system to ensure that corruption bears a just punishment of it’s own?
There are questions that need to be asked. But first, we have to be able to approach the topic as thoughtful men, nor merely in a reactionary way.
Now, my first comment was pretty silly (intentionally so), so take all this with a grain of salt. I certainly don’t type any of it with any ill-will; quite the opposite, in fact.
While I enjoy being silly (and spouting off sometimes, I admit it) on ROK, the thing that I have come to value about this website is the ability that it offers for men to truly better themselves around other MEN. So it is not my intention to be insulting. But you do need to think through your hypothesis and question the assumptions you have made in making your points.
Then, I’ll be happy to debate through the issues with you.
And this has run on far longer than I meant it to. Sorry about that. I’ve had to leave the computer several times while typing and it made this run on longer than I meant it to. Pax.
“I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be rude” I don’t worry, I like criticism because I prefer people to understand my ideas rather than silently disagree with them.
“Why would anybody fear getting caught if there was no associated punishment?” Even in the weakest systems, you are still having punishment. You are restriction of travel, you loose basically all privacy, you loose the right to vote, you can’t own a weapon, . At the least, you would be considered to live in an Authoritarian Autocratic state if you were any person other than someone who was accused of a crime in a court. If you live in Canada you loose the right to operate a motor vehicle on a public highway. It’s pretty shitty.
“How often, even in today’s extremely broken system, are men actually convicted of lesser crimes (like petty theft, B&E, etc.), where they have later been vindicated?” This is a complicated one. The thing is, if they were wrongly accused, we really don’t know if they were, otherwise they generally wouldn’t have been accused in the first place. This is why I am against extreme or harsh punishment.
“And this has run on far longer than I meant it to. Sorry about that. I’ve had to leave the computer several times while typing and it made this run on longer than I meant it to. Pax.” Oh its fine. It’s better to have a long comment with a solid argument than a short one without much substance.
Good argument – Criminals do not fear the justice system ergo there is no deterrent.
The “justice system” is the best place to become a better criminal. I spent a couple of hours in a jail once on a traffic offense. I came out knowing where to buy several illegal drugs, some techniques for knife fighting, names of several other criminals and their places of business, and some other stuff I’ve forgotten. It made me really fear a guy who has been in prison for weeks, not to mention months or years.
The entire thing needs reform. If only there was a reset button.
Been saying this for years! It’s also less life ruining for the inmate. We also need civic forgiveness, the current system means being convicted of any crime means you’ll never be hired for any job that isn’t awful again.
Flogging means punishment without ruining someone’s life, enough pain to deter, not so much that it truly brutalizes the inmate. Funny how flogging is barbaric, but a hyper violent rape farm is perfectly fine, huh?
I’m all for flogging. I also say bring back stockades as well. If we must have prisons, run them like Japanese prisons. In those prisons, work is mandatory and silence is golden.
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/08/world/prisons-in-japan-are-safe-but-harsh.html
And for capital punishment, I’m all for good old fashioned Roman crucifixions. And feeding the condemned to a den of wolves or lions. The problem is that we are too concerned with everyone’s “rights”. Andi think that this is a direct result of women voting. Women love their bad boys and don’t want them punished too harshly. After all, when a woman is attracted to a bad boy, she can rationalize away anything he does. He shot 3 people and set their kitten on fire, in her mind, he has a heart of gold and maybe should just be given community service. Also, what the hell ever happened to chain gangs???
I’ve had some vague ideas supporting corporal punishment but this article expresses them far more clearly and succinctly than I could ever hope to. Didn’t convince me so much as entrench my previously-held views.
However, I can’t agree with you about capital punishment. Not saying that we shouldn’t have capital punishment – some cases definitely warrant it – but I do believe that the condemned should be killed in a fairly (not completely, mind) quick and painless way. Firstly, killing them in gratuitously gruesome ways would be sinking to their level and secondly there’s always the tiny chance that someone might be wrongly convicted. Now, I would only advocate capital punishment in cases where there is literally no doubt whatsoever of the convict’s guilt (so an even higher standard than ‘beyond all reasonable doubt’) but killing the convict in a humane way would provide that extra layer of protection so that in the (hopefully very unlikely) event that an innocent person is executed at least they won’t have suffered needlessly.
No, it shouldn’t be. I used to think that the writers at ROK were the sane ones.
Sometimes it’s hard to tell the satire from the real. Like this article. I’m not sure where it falls on that spectrum. I put the Pussy Riot video below, but mainly for entertainment value. I really don’t trust the cops in the U.S. to do the right thing any longer.
I think it’s a little tongue in cheek, personally.
why is it insane ???????????//
Because, given the number of SJWs in our government and their views on what constitutes a crime, people like you and I would be the first on the whipping post.
Between SJW’s prison and whipping, give me whipping anyday. I will not get “re-educated” with daily “sensitivity trainings” for the rest of my life.
Omg I hate muslims. Why don’t we just deport them all. And give them a good flogging on the way out.
Can’t do that without dealing with the globalist scum first.
We will have different equipment for them. Flogging is OK for the muslims because they just need a good whupping..the GE needs something else..
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519CD2RB8HL.jpg
Btw, anyone know what happened to manosphere.com?
I’d be all for it if we first reformed our police forces and justice system. There are too many slimy cops, DAs and judges right now to trust them with that power. Studies show that judges increase punishments near election years (one of many reasons not to elect judges). I can only imagine the amount the fallout if flogging was an option.
Remember a decade or more back that American teenage kid in Singapore spray painted someone’s BMW and got sentenced to 10 cane lashes? Clinton tried to intervene but the law is the law in that country. You do the crime you pay.
I bet he never did vandalism again.
He probably did. Just not in Singapore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut2H2UKV0No&list=RDut2H2UKV0No
This is what we need for false rape accusing women.
Wasn’t there an ancient or medieval culture in which false witness meant having your tong cut off and your eyes taken out ?
Not sure. Today, it is known as perjury.
This.^
There seems to be a contradiction between #1 and #6. I doubt a punishment perceived as “manly” would deter delinquants who commit crimes precisely because they want to be perceived as “manly”. It’s a win-win situation for them.
But the virtues of flogging shouldn’t be dismissed too quickly :
http://siberiantimes.com/other/others/features/beating-addiction-out-of-you-literally/
Therefore a good cure for addicts (including sex addicts…), not so much for anybody else.
What about crime addicts?
Ok, done being snarky.
I’ve thought about this problem, and hear me out.
Paddling by little old ladies. It can still be made painful enough to have an effect and they’re is no way to make it cool. I can hear rappers spitting now, “For all the brothas on lock, gettin’ ya ass beat by grandma, I feel you dawg! One struggle!”
Great idea.
Ironic that the french penal system, once among the harshest in the world, has degenerated into being among the most corrupt and lenient.
Yeah, and they still have low crime rates. Punishment has pretty much no effect on crime.
Concealed handguns across the nation, on the other hand, has put a huge dent in the ol’ crime stats.
Exactly, Criminals typically dislike higher chances of being caught/being stood up to, so everyone having guns is a nightmare for them.
We have found common ground. Right on.
Not true. While it’s far from Salvador, physical aggressions are at an all time high.
http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2015/01/29/01016-20150129ARTFIG00400-delinquance-le-nombre-d-agressions-et-d-escroqueries-n-a-jamais-ete-aussi-eleve.php
What is the exact definition of physical aggression’s in French Law?
Attacks meant to inflict bodily harm, as well as sexual aggressions.
Oh, so basically assault. Well that is because of Muslims. Even in middle eastern countries where they still have flogging, crime rates are still high.
Can’t disagree with that.
Wrong. The recividism rate in France was MUCH lower when they had a harsh and demanding system.
http://violentdeathproject.com/charts/UK%20compared%20to%20US%2020th%20century%20homicide%20rates-small.jpg
As you can see with this chart, crime rates have gone down in the US (for 20 years or so) and have stayed low in the UK.
France alone is irrelevant to the conversation, that is just cherry picking. The fact is, countries with corporal punishment not only don’t have lower crime rates, they actually have it higher.
The phenomenon has many factors it’s not a straight one to one comparison. For all we know the crime rate in flogging countries would be much higher without it.
The best argument is that it’s fundamentally more humane and humanizing than so called “rehabilitation”.
UK may not be a great example. They have had numerous reporting scandals, where more serious crimes get reclassified, or in the case of Rotherham(far, far from just one bad apple) just ignored for a variety of reasons.
Too many variables.
I hate these kinds of comparisons attempting to draw a “conclusion” or worse, “fact”.
Well you’re side has given jack and shit for evidence to show that flogging has any effectiveness, and Quod Gratis Asseritur, Gratis Negatur, AKA, don’t complain about shitty evidence if you don’t have any.
The point is, if europe already has a function system, why try to fix it? They have low crime, and 2 birds in the bush is worth one in the hand.
So you admit that your evidence is shitty? You science folk really are a neat bunch. Almost as neat as you liawyer folk.
Because Europe is changing. A system that works for Europeans is having zero impact on the imported Muslim minions. Great article on the Berlin underworld in Breitbart today, middle eastern imports are running total roughshod over the cops and native criminals. Kind of like how when the mob in the US got largely replaced by feral street gangs of varying size and strength.
This is all theoretical anyway, migrants are gang raping anyone who isn’t nailed down and the cops are all watching the “far right”. If we can’t address that, flogging isn’t going to come back anytime soon.
“A system that works for Europeans is having zero impact on the imported Muslim minions.” Well then we need to introduce a mass European cultural/ethnic clensing program, not unfairly punish Europeans (who do respond to traditional jail/reduction) for these stupid sand people.
“You science folk really are a neat bunch.” Science folk? What is this? Are you calling me a scientist or are you denying science?
Funny to see this article today. I took a tour of my local Catholic private school yesterday (I’m unmarried and without kids but was invited socially). In one of the classrooms with an amazing beautiful view out the windows, I made a joke to the sister that “it must be hard for these students to concentrate with such a view. I bet there is much rapping of knuckles!”
She laughed and then quickly became somber and said “oh, gosh, no!” I’m not terribly in favor of corporal punishment, but it’s sad that authority figures are so afraid to enforce their authority and maintain discipline. It sounded more like the woman was *afraid* to use any punishment rather than she was simply opposed to it. If you can’t get paddled in Catholic school, what kind of discipline do we have anymore!?
I went to a private Christian school and got paddled when I was a kid. Wasn’t even a Catholic school.
My public middle school had one. I was never paddled, but had friends who were.
My school was fond of the rack.
The biggest problems in schools in the late 1940s? Chewing gum, cutting the line and speaking out of turn. Fifty years later, it was gang violence, drug use, and teen pregnancy. Good only knows what it is in 2016
I always said that the way to reduce violence and keep order in urban schools is to A. Hire a mle staff or mostly male staff 40 years of age or younger, but no younger than 21 who are at least 5’10 175 pounds or better in good shape proficient in the use of full contact karate or may Thai and have demonstrated this proficiency in live sparring and train them in and give them the use of tasers and/or cattle prods. As an added option, have the use of attack German shepherds at the ready.
Option B is to have a security staff with the same qualifications. Also, the use of physical force should be quite liberal but well regulated in order to be effective. With smaller children you may not need to beas harsh, but in a high school where you have 6 ‘ 200 lb “children” walking around, this is how you get them to behave.
No one will like this, but…
Make teachers from the best example of the culture of the student population as far as possible. No lie, but black kids don’t test black male teachers as much, and hell young men in general instinctively respect older men more than women as well.
Men used to be taught by men. After the little kid stage anyway.
Anybody married to an American woman has already been whipped enough.
ooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhh
This article won me over to flogging, if I can add the reinstatement of public executions by firing squad to the mix.
Also, the release of all first time, victimless crimes such as marijuana possession, etc. These people form the bulk of the prison population and pose no threat to society.
I think it’s rather a disappointment that we don’t have public hangings any longer. That shit deterred the hell out of crime.
That would end thug culture overnight. 100% in favor of public execution for capital offense and bringing back the pillary for lower offences like larceny.
Release all the non violent first time offenders and work the dog shit out of the few that remain. Free labor for the state and they’ll learn a trade as opposed to sitting idle in the country club style prison system.
Problem is that as Americans, we have the 8th Amendment, which prohibits that.
Didn’t until the 20th century. Last check, Founders, 18th century.
Cruel and Unusual is such a subjective measure.
I figure that if “whatever” wasn’t cruel and unusual to them, when they wrote the document, then that is not what they meant.
I agree. Executing someone because they steal is cruel and unusual. Chopping someone’s hand off for stealing, I’d say more C/U than not. Lashes for stealing, not really that bad.
Plus you may say flogging is cruel but it for certain isn’t unusual.
Whatever punishments taught in the Bible which is the foundation for all law is fair game imo
do you have anything solid data to back that up? i’m asking because the conventional wisdom is that capital punishment doesn’t deter crime. of course, that might be as true as the idea that more girls are getting raped at US universities than in african civil wars.
Problem is that the US has the 8th Amendment against cruel and unusual punishment.
I’ve given more thought and I’m back in limbo because I wouldn’t want Hillary or Obama with the power to flog.
I do stand by my statement about reinstituting public firing squad for capital crimes. Along with releasing all first time non violent offenders from prison.
I’m all for Roman style crucifixions and death by wild animal. Say putting the condemned in a cage with a grizzly bear or something like that. If we rounded up every gang banger in Chicago and crucified half and fed the other half to bears, wolves and lions, I trust that the lesson will not be lost on the other thugs in Cleveland, Detroit or New Orleans. Coming to a city near you…..
No, of course flogging shouldn’t be used as punishment. Crime rates are at an all time low in America and in Europe the crime rates are even lower. What happens if you have the wrong person? Well you just really fucked up and now have someone who hates the justice system.
If crime rates get too low, Governments pass new criminal laws so that you fall into it. They need to create jobs for police and prison industries as well as lawyers, prosecutors, and judges.
Ummm… That isn’t how crime or police work. Crime rates are lowered by increased police activity. Countries with a larger number of police officers per capita UNIVERSALLY have lower crime rates.
Crime rates can go down to zero simply by decriminalizing every crime.
Possession of marijuana in New York is a crime while in Colorado, it’s perfectly fine.
Are you fucking retarded? That isn’t even relevant in anyway to what we are talking about.
Not relevant? That’s the whole point about crime. Any act is a crime if the government says it is and have thugs (police) enforce it.
Killing is a crime, but if you kill in battle, then it’s not.
Crime is a social construct.
Ok, but what happens today when the police have to use force and it turns out to be the wrong person? I’m pretty sure being maced and beaten with a night stick is essentially the same thing with a different weapon of choice.
I’m not arguing for flogging, I’m just noting the holes in your logic.
Well as for police brutality, I am against that two. You basically used a straw man, I never said I condone police beating people with batons.
No, I asked what happens when the same scenario plays out, as it does every day, except with different weapons.
Andrew, the chances of being wrongfully accused are increasingly low due to DNA analysis and forensics. Most of the examples that support your theory occured before Chromosome matching became a standard technique during the 1980’s and 1990’s.
“Andrew, the chances of being wrongfully accused are increasingly low due to DNA analysis and forensics.” I find this really ironic coming from a ROK reader. DNA is only useful for brand new hot cases. DNA evidence can wash away or become to mixed up over the years, and it’s not some sort of magic bullet as many people think. Just look at what is happening with Bill Cosby and the “sexual assault” case against him.
RFLP analysis has exonerated wrongfully accused death row prisoners because of its reliability.
The anecdotal cases will become increasingly marginalized as the technology is improved.
I’d hate the justice system more if I get sent in prison than if I get flogged for something I didn’t do. In prison I possibily get raped and the most important ressource in the world gets stolen from me : time.
Yep, flog me and I’ll be fine within a few days. Send me to jail and I’ll be flipping burgers for the rest of my life while I struggle to support my wife and kids.
“I’d hate the justice system more if I get sent in prison than if I get flogged for something I didn’t do.” Have you ever actually been flogged or looked at someone get flogged? I think you perceive yourself as tougher than you actually are (unless you are superman or something). “the most important ressource in the world gets stolen from me : time.” Yeah, and that is a lot more of a punishment than a lot of people think. This is exactly why we have jail over, you know, flogging.
Lock criminals away all you want, but you’ll pay for their food, security, “re-education” and health problems with your own money, not with my taxes, thank you.
Jail only scare honest people who don’t have connections in it. For criminals, European prisons are, and I quote one of our local black muslim terrorist Coulibaly : “best fucking crime school”.
“Yeah, and that is a lot more of a punishment than a lot of people think. This is exactly why we have jail over, you know, flogging.”
Wasn’t your first point that flogging is worse than prison for the convicted ?
Flogging is bad but I’m still choosing getting flogged over sodomised by ten arabs in rusty prison showers or be forced to convert to islam, or spend years getting “reeducated” by the modern socialist state (because that’s what happens in the ideal european countries you’re citing as examples), thank you very much.
Reducing crime is not worth a tolitarian state that locks people away and, most of the time, makes them even worse.
Also correlation doesn’t implie causation, and the fact that our countries have low crime rates is not necessarely related to our prison system nor to the absence of bodily punishment.
1) The issue here seems to not be of punishment, but of Islam. 2) I know correlation isn’t causation, but you still haven’t provided ANY evidence of the effectiveness of corporal punishment.
Because I never intended to prove the effectiveness of corporal punishment. I believe in the uneffectiveness of most punishment on most evil persons.
My point was rather that I find it less barbaric and absurd than prisons, and also : more fair. (by the way rape in prison happens with or without islam in it)
For example I think a cold blooded murderer in my opinion should be sentenced to death, and a death as close as the one he inflicted on his victime, because justice is about balance and retribution. I also believe that someone who slapped his neighbour too hard should not be jailed with hardened criminals, nor should he be mutilated.
I think prison doesn’t work as a punishment neither and I think they’re awful and degrade us as a society. I also think that the only way to reduce crime drastically would be to build a tolitarian system as it is happening right now using concern for security as a pretext and I don’t want that to happen.
“on most evil persons.” Showing that most crime is committed either in under the influence of intoxicants, in rage, or because of mental illness, I think Evil people are pretty much irrelevant.
“For example I think a cold blooded murderer in my opinion should be sentenced to death” And what if you have the WRONG FUCKING PERSON?
“because justice is about balance and retribution.” No it isn’t. Police/Justice departments are made to create a peaceful environment for the people of a nation, not “get retribution”. Based off the way you supposedly handle flogging better than jail and the way you want “retribution”, you must be from the planet krypton.
“I also believe that someone who slapped his neighbour too hard should not be jailed with hardened criminals, nor should he be mutilated.” So let me get this straight, as for murder, you want an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but for assault you don’t seem to even want them go to jail?
My son, at 2, was all about pulling the curtains down on himself, including the oak rod they were hung from. He was 2, this could have seriously injured him. When I finally caught him in the act, I (lightly) smacked his hands and gave him a no, and he stopped.
Criminals are, if anything, less than a 2 year old in reasoning. It works.
Besides the received wisdom of all mankind? Whenever an institution is that universal, it ought to be at least considered.
Look, we already get the wrong “fucking” person all the time. It’s a separate issue and I’m sure you would agree that no system can be perfect.
Evil people are often the ones taking intoxicants, going into “rage” and mental ill people actually rarely commit crimes : http://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_violence.php
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/04/mental-illness-crime.aspx
I don’t like the way you argue, throwing f-words like a SJW, and using condescending or snarky ad hominems like a woman.
My take on the subject is similar to the one of CS Lewis, I posted a video of his essay a few comments above, if you want to educate yourself.
Wish you all the best.
“Evil people are often the ones taking intoxicants, going into “rage” and mental ill people actually rarely commit crimes : http://depts.washington.edu/mh… ” 50% of people in jail have a mental illness. http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/prevalence/inmate-mental-health.shtml Do you have an explanation for why this is so high?
“I don’t like the way you argue” *sarcasm* Why, because I am right?
“throwing f-words like a SJW” I don’t know about you, but killing or whipping the wrong person seems like a pretty big deal to me, like REALLY BIG DEAL.
“and using condescending or snarky ad hominems like a woman. ” You are the person like an SJW, you have no sense of humor or sarcasm.
Yeah, no shit. And in other news you don’t understand how to connect arguments. If we are getting the wrong people all the time, we shouldn’t be doing harsh punishments dipstick. You need to learn how to do basic systematic thinking.
Umm no, because at no point did any of those cultures ever scientifically test to see if it’s effective, now that it has been tested, it’s been shown it’s ineffective. Under your logic, shouldn’t we used the combined wisdom that an autocracy ruled by one person with complete power is the most effective system? No, because democratic parliamentary republics have been shown to be much much much more effective.
Well, no they haven’t and no autocracy wasn’t the standard, and no the past isn’t what you think.
Last things first, most democratic republics in history collapse into something else pretty damn quickly. It’s a system of government that only works for European cultures (don’t think of Japan or India as counter examples either, Japan was a “democratic” one party state for half a century, and Indian elections are rigged like you wouldn’t believe). Hell it doesn’t even work in Europe half the time.
The received wisdom of mankind has produced an incredibly diverse set of systems of varying quality all uniquely fitted to the time, place, and culture. Mixed regimes seem to work best and Aristotle pointed that out millennia ago without “scientifically” testing anything, beyond observation,, which leads to my third point.
You can’t “scientifically” test these things because you can’t control the variables you need to, or at least no ones willing to try. Until you control for cultural and social economic factors you can’t prove it one way or another since big of those factors have an enormous influence on crime rates.
So ummmm, no, yourself, just because someone says its “science” doesn’t mean it is. Real science and study controls the testing environment and the accounts for confounding variables. “Science” outside of this context is shorthand for “the point of view currently fashionable plus jargon”.
Alright then, hear this “dipstick”.
Basic systematic thinking is pointing out when an argument is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. If you had said, “flogging is not the big issue, we need to fix the system of trial and conviction first”, you might have had a point, but you didn’t so you don’t. The article is about punishment. I’m sure OP wouldn’t support flogging the mentally ill either, but he didn’t bring it up because it is “no shit” irrelevant.
Saying systematic doesn’t mean you’re being systematic. The same way logic has to be logical not code for “I think this way”. It’s not a flag you fly it’s a system of thought seeking to show coherency.
“Why, because I’m right?”
No because you’re acting like an asshole and you weren’t a few comments ago. My sense of humors broken too, because you’re friendly firing like a mad man.
We’re probably 90% on the same side and yet you’re showing a lot of contempt for lines of reasoning that are clean and intelligible from people of good will; as far as I can tell because we can’t produce better evidence than centuries of accumulated human experience (doesn’t count because no ones wearing a white coat I guess).
To drop an f bomb of my own WTF?
“no autocracy wasn’t the standard” What was then?
One further argument: I believe that flogging is less cruel to the falsely accused, but also more effective to the rightfully convicted.
Then what? Capital punishment or Prison?
As an innocent man, would you rather be stuck surrounded by monsters for six months – or receive a dozen lashes? For the creature who doesn’t know the difference between freedom and imprisonment, the sentence will carry no threat.
Also, if the person is later found to be falsely accused, he can be financially compensated for his flogging. A thousand dollars per 5 lashes or something like that.
Considering the fact that SJWs permeate every facet of our government and hold increasingly more bizzare views on what constitutes a crime, I think flogging is a terrible idea. The less power the government has, the less damage it can do. Give them the privilege of flogging and it won’t be long before you and I are tied to the post for such awful crimes as manspreading or mansplaining.
Put them in the iron maiden. Its excellent. no wait, its bogus.
Your post made me smile. Be excellent to each other.
One night only: The Electro-lites with special guests Wyld Stallions!
Electro-lites are what plants crave!
Cheese, you’ve never lived the high life until you’ve been tarred and feathered!
My reputation has been tarred before; no one has ever tickled me however
Or just use traditional beating of the soles of the feet while tied up. It’s apparently unbearable.
Not sure if it’s already been mentioned in the comments, but Singapore still uses caning as a punishment. Singapore isn’t exactly overrun with government-sponsored criminal trash like Western societies are, but it seems to be working out fine for them.
I remember that kid who, back in the 1990s, spray painted some cars in Singapore and the Singaporean authorities flogged his bare ass with a rattan cane.
The 1st President Bush got the little punk’s sentence reduced from 50 lashes to 5. The kid was going to get 50 lashes otherwise.
I’m already in power. I spank my girlfriends, and it really helps to maintain order.
Do you use the spanking as a punishment or a reward?
It all depends. It’s an all-terrain vehicle.
I like CS Lewis take on the matter :
Powerful. Listened to it all.
Good concept. They could make the punishment voluntary. The thug could choose flogging or jail.
Also, this kind of punishments works better in a rural society, in which your reputation is important, since everyone knows you and knows where you live. Crime mostly comes with urbanization ; in big cities you can rob someone and disappear into the crowd.
Robert A Heinlein, in his novel Starship Troopers posed the situation of flogging being used as a punishment and the deterrent effect, as well as the non-permanency of the punishment, unlike what our prison system does to people. (Not those excruciatingly awful movies which bastardized the whole novel
and whose lib writers and producers should be flogged!) His arguments were no doubt influenced by not only his strong libertarian leanings but also reflect what CS Lewis said about punishment (several posts down).
Uncountable studies have proven that not having a father at home has incredibly negative consequences on their sons and thus society as a whole. Flogging instead of breaking up the family would be much more humane.
I’m fine with it as long as it doesn’t apply to only men and women are equally given just as many lashes and just as hard too when they commit the same crimes. But we all know it will only be applied to men. It always is.
I think it would be ok so long as women are put under men’s authority. Either under her father or her husband.
Agree. Flogging should be considered.
Absolutely, Bring back the Cat and caning for juveniles, my old man thought flogging a drunk driver Fifty lashes or more would be the best way to get them to behave just as it should be used on abusive husbands. It is low cost punishment that leaves the delinquents a strong sting they will never forget. Jail time costs money, probation and fines really don’t get the message across.
We should bring back gallows too. It is cheap and a painful death.
Hanging is most likely painless when done correctly. In colonial times it was pertinent to bribe your axeman or hangman so they do a good job and don’t need to strike twice or misplace a knot.
“Your brother brought me silver. Your sister warmed my soul. But now I laugh and pull so hard see you swinging on the gallows pole.”
I believe flogging people for petty crimes is an excellent idea. Petty theft, destruction of public property fit this punishment very well. Stockades should also make a comeback for simple battery and DUI. All drugs should be made legal with certain ones limited by daily dosing and identification. Every other serious criminal charge should be subject to long term incarceration or execution. I favor the electric chair for executions.
why not firing squad or hanging? they seem like the most humane and dignified methods to me. there have been some pretty ghastly botched executions with the chair. lethal injection is probably the worst method ever used in the US though. seems specifically designed to make everyone feel good, while actually being a pretty inhumane method.
I am lukewarm to the idea of firing squad since it is so quick. Hanging is for treason in my book. The electric chair has that bit of unpredictability which serves as a strong deterrent in my opinion. Electricity is a cruel invisible mistress. I am with you on lethal injection. It is a fucking shame they over anesthetize people as a form of execution. Whats worse is they cannot even extract organs for donation after a lethal injection.
i’m actually in the “torture doesn’t work” camp. i’m OK with executing those who deserve it, but think it should be as quick and humane as possible. if you like the chair because you believe the potential for increased suffering is a deterrent, why not bring back the brazen bull, flaying alive, or drawing, hanging, and quartering? way worse than the chair.
I am also in that camp so to speak. I do not condone obvious torture or barbarity but appreciate the uncertainty of such a device as a good way to set an example. Being a human resistor is not a good way to go but it is quick usually
One of the best ways to “reduce crime”, is to quit making so many fucking laws, and then start repealing a whole shit load more. It is literally impossible to count how many laws are just in the federal penal code, much less State, County, and Municipal codes. Everyone in america commits an average of 3 felonies a day without knowing it. Land of thfree, my ass.
If the judicial system was scaled back to a simple code based on natural law, it would solve a lot of problems…
Who is the victim, what is their loss, who is the perpetrator, and what is a just punishment/recompense? No, victim? Get outta my jail.
But yeah….if they’re a real criminal, I would say flogging would be suitable. Let the victim do it though if they are capable.
Wish I had more upvotes, the Feds really could jack up any citizen they wanted to, we’re all guilty of something.
Agreed, victim-less “crime” is nonsense.
We should also bring back public executions. Nothing like a heathly reminder of consequences.
I guess the only problem I see with this I that in the olden days part of the punishment was the enduring pain one would go through to think about their crimes. Now with modern medicine and painkillers that part of the punisher is substantially reduced. Other than that I’d probably be for something like this.
Perhaps a 1-2 day detention for ‘medical observation.’
Flogging doesn’t work on feminists. Fifty Shades of Grey have made them into perverse nymphomaniacs. Just deny them sex. That might put them in line. Also, to get a page from the Nazi SS, make them walk on heels for eight hours.
And for masculine men, the establishment might construct a Tolerance Death Camp.
There’s an idea, men say the hate all the fat, tattooed, rainbow-haired feminist sluts but SOMEONE keeps having sex with these creatures, else they wouldn’t be sluts. Granted the promise/threat of sexual satisfaction/denial doesn’t affect women as strongly as it does men, but maybe if women were denied everything the stronger sex has to offer (marriage, sperm to impregnate them, financial support AND sex) unless they make themselves desirable, it would encourage females to shape up.
That said, women are guilty of this “banging what you say you hate” too, and could probably shape male behavior by ceasing it even faster than the reverse. In fact, if all of womankind stopped having any sexual contact with criminals, that might be an even better deterrent than flogging. The problem is our (by this I mean all people, male and female) genitals and our brains often want completely different things, and too often we make decisions “with the wrong head” and wind up unconsciously rewarding what we consciously don’t want.
Flogging, no.
Public hanging, yes. A woman who humiliates her husband with another man should be hanged beside her bull, and the corpses denied a Christian burial. Just for example.
The point of public execution or corporal punishment is not to make criminals learn from their mistakes (they very rarely do). It is to serve as a warning to others, so others will learn from the criminal’s mistakes.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa130/valeycreek/mrburns.jpg
I assume that flogging should be reinstated only after the corrupt West collapses. Today, we could all be canned for “hate speech” or other Left-made up crime, but once the globalists are overrun and we get in their place, flogging would be used only on real delinquents and criminals.
#5 is the reaspn why it will not be done.
The corporations pay the academics, both in turn influence government.
But a great idea. If offered the choice I would happily take flogging over even half a year of imprisonment, for all the reasons you stated above.
Yes, it might work. Starship Troopers has a viewpoint that is similar to the author’s view.
1. Corporal punishment should definitely be reinstated. There is no argument against it.
2. A much heavier financial burden should be placed on real criminals (i.e. not drug users, alimony-refusers etc.). Burglars, thieves etc. should be stripped of all finances and possessions, including the clothes on their backs, prior to corporal punishment.
3. Real criminals should be used for slave labor, in addition to flogging.
4. The truly dangerous/undesirables ought to be used for experimentation, organ harvesting and “terminal” missions.
If it’s good enough for starship troopers, it’s good enough for me. At least for any crime that would get less than two years in jail under the current system. Women would probably get a pussy pass and be flogged with a feather or something though.
TL;DR – yes
Same reasoning applies to spanking in schools. Given the choice between losing precious hours of one’s finite life (and potentially developing a criminal record) and taking a hard thwock or five on the ass, I’d always go with the spanking. Especially if spanking kept the sentence off of your records.
Yeah… good luck with that…
I happen to think most thugs would just take their beats and carry on. For me, the best way to deal with criminals is two-fold. Allow the population to arm and defend itself (instant deterrent). Return to the practice of ostracization… You commit a crime, your face is everywhere and you cannot transact for food and shelter until you repay your debt. M&S does this to some effect.
He could be given a choice. This or bannishment. With flogging he goes through it and is forgiven in his communauty, if he chooses bannishment he gets hurt less but he can never come back.
I like that. And I practice half of it in real life.
Personally I would rather be flogged than sent to prison, since as the author says it is over in a moment and doesn’t disrupt one’s place in society. But this is coming from someone who has never been flogged and has no idea what it’s actually like, so ask me after my first flogging if I’m willing to take a second. I think it might help if we went back to biblical parenting and started spanking our kids again, then maybe they would learn while their minds were still young and impressionable and we wouldn’t have to flog them as adults.
I quite agree. Last time I heard this argument was years ago, in the Economist’s review of In Defence of Flogging by Peter Moskos. I haven’t read the book myself, but it could be a good candidate for an RoK book review.
http://www.amazon.com/In-Defense-Flogging-Peter-Moskos/dp/0465032419
A 2nd to light flogging (spanking) of children who disobey parents. It is commanded in scripture to not spare the rod. A successful parent who erred as a child was punished by a responsible grandparent, not the state. I knew a runaway single mother who had unruly and delinquent kids. She’d threaten them with calling ‘juvie’ constantly until she wore it out. Her daughters all turned out to become crazy runaway carousel single mothers just like her. A wise parent knows when and how to discipline without needless excess. They mold and shape the character of their children. A parent who is undeveloped and without character may stew in their own shortcomings and not have the wisdom to prudently apply discipline but the parent who is mature and knows it, who is proud of their achievements can communicate that they are successful and disciplined can vet out the appropriate discipline to shape their own kids to follow the path of their parents.
A parent who says ”the reason you’re getting a whooping is so you don’t turn out to be like me” seems oxymoronic and is an admission that the parent is somewhat fucked up. Conversely, the state wages war on natural blood parents controlling the discipline of their own kids. This is where a parent needs to really communicate that the social marxist state is the real enemy and the children are to become proud reflections of their parents and remain vigilant and wise warriors against the encroachment of the nanny state. In that case the parent can declare to their kids that ”yes, you kids DO want to be just like me when you grow up.” But punishing them for not blindly following the rules and towing the nanny state line will result in the kids respecting the state and doing their brainwashed duty to snitch and turncoat on their own parents.
Children should report to their parents any suspected state snitches they come across in the community. Kids should honor their family and home like it was a fortress. If a kid has some neighbor asking them ”do your parents have any guns or do they believe people should defend themselves?” that kid needs to learn to identify the sumbooger as someone to report to DADDY. Daddy is always ready with a sermon on the mount. Sermons are always refreshing with pizza afterwards. Same with ”do you get along in your household” or ”has anyone in your household ever tried happy pills, they make you love the nanny state” REPORT REPORT it to daddy. Good boy, you get the 22 LR with scope for Christmas.
Overview: don’t discipline your kids so they DON’T turn out like you. Be proud, discipline them so they DO turn out to be like you.
Read about the “designated person” in Scotland. It’s a Orwellian policy to get kids to rat on their parents, it’s the creepiest damn thing you ever read.
Manly punishment? Please.
Why eschew a behavior modification system that has been fine tuned over millions of years of human evolution?
You learned as a kid, real fucking fast, that touching a hot pan was a bad idea.
I really don’t see how the crack of a whip is any more cruel or unusual than being raped and beaten in jail while guards look on.
But the progressive pearl clutchers will have none of it. The problem isn’t the “cruelty” they don’t care about that.
They’re fine with torture so long as it’s hidden away behind the brick and mortar of a prison in a rural area far beyond their quiet gated communities.
The human body is sovereign, period.
Yes. Bring it back. Along with the stocks, the pillory, breaking on the wheel, etc.
But, at the same time, do away with the stupid, costly “war on drugs”, do away with victimless crimes, violating some petty bureaucratic diktat, and hold cops to the same standards as anyone else – no more “investigating themselves and finding out they did nothing wrong”…
Also, stop punishing people who are square with the house.
Once upon a time, a man got crossways with the law in this country, he was given his day in court and – if found guilty – was sent to the Stoney Lonesome.
Once he did his time, he was considered square with the house and his rights – suspended during his tenure in the Greybar Hotel – were reinstated. ALL of them.
Permanently stripping a man of his rights – in effect, “after-prison” perpetual punishment – would have been anathema to the Framers.
Just abolish the sentences for drug related crimes the prison population would be halved over night, in addition to all the other benefits. Overcrowding problem solved.
So now a jilted bitch can have some creep flogged with the fake abuse claims we have now.
This is in Aceh Indonesia, whipped for adultery.
Women who do the same crimes must get the same treatment.
Most criminals know that the most they have to worry about is a court date or probation, so they do whatever they want. It’s the people who’ve got a vested interest in being normal citizens that get the shaft.
I wrote an article on this very issue some time ago, and am glad to see we both raise similar points concerning the merits of this ancient practice.
http://citadelfoundations.blogspot.com/2014/10/a-case-for-corporal.html
At the same time as prison serves the role of an unintimidating detterant, it is also a devastating punishment concerning those around the incarcerated who lose so much, especially children. I am very much in favor of Singapore’s caning system. This is definitely an issue that ought to be investigated on the redpill right.
Yes because we already see how well it is worling in Saudi Arabia. Sarcasm may occpur.:D