I write this with a heavy heart because I’ve privately corresponded with Mark and enjoyed his passionate diatribes, which I’ve published on this very blog not once, but twice. I’ve even invited him to contribute an article. But all is not what it seems to be.
In case you’re not familiar with Mark, he’s a prolific manosphere commenter who over the past year has hammered into our brains how destructive marriage in America is, wisdom learned from his own bitter divorce. Here is a sample of his previous writing:
Fine, marriage might work out for you. It probably won’t and you will fuck yourself bad. It happens to 1 in 2 men. 1 in fucking 2.
[…]
And when I die, the fact I got to live elsewhere for a time, will dwarf what I feel about here. It is the basis of my rants about marriage and this American life as a married man being insipid, stupid, and a waste of the life of man. Because it ties you to here, it chains you, it removes your option, your hope, that you might leave, and seals your fate as a slave.
[…]
Given the way women are, and the way most of you are, your odds of being in a marriage forever and not getting a divorce is about zilch.point.shit. 0.0000%. Enough zeros? Any of you that are married are probably on the way to divorce if you are not divorced already. Any of you that do get married surely will be divorced.
A man must avoid marriage, whether you are alpha as fuck or beta as a hell.
[…]
The reality is that after a few years of marriage you will probably prefer porn to your wife. And the reality is that porn IS better than your wife.
And as for growing old with her. You’ll be sleeping in different bedrooms and no fucking way will you be wanting to fuck that old beast. You’ll be thinking “If I have to watch her fucking chew like a cow one more time I am surely going to choke her and shoot myself”.
One enjoyable feature of his writing is a powerful voice that comes from being direct and unambiguous. You know exactly where he stands. There is no doubt he has been influential in causing young men to think about what the marriage institution has morphed into. I even sympathized with his preference of Colombian women, and envisioned him soaking up the eternal summer of Medellin to enjoy the company of feminine, more traditional women. And in spite of all that comes the bombshell announcement that he is re-marrying in America… to a single mom. He is signing into a legal contract where he will soon provide for another man’s spawn.
This revelation has shocked many, and while some understand his need for companionship as he advances into elderly age, he is getting eviscerated for not living up to his own principles.
Here is his response:
I practiced what I learned here. I am 58 year old man. None of you know what that truly entails until you get to that point in your life. Kate is an attractive 34 year old woman, with options galore if she chose to take them.
And in following what I learned here, following the suggestions, the psychology, the mandates, I have an attractive woman 24 years younger than me that is ready to commit to me.
Top that motherfuckers.
The criticisms against him have not been kind:
I’ve seen photos of her before because she used to have them linked to her profile on Rollo’s blog and to me the woman isn’t hideous but that’s about the nicest thing I can say. At least she isn’t fat. Supposedly she’s a single mother, but I guess that matters less as you advance in years. Most late middle-aged American men certainly do worse but at the same time, feeling lucky about marrying a not-fugly single mother whose neurosis has drawn her into the heartiste/rollo/roosh world of relationship dynamics, is like getting jacked that you hit a single cherry on the nickle slot machine.
Normally two people coming together is a cause for celebration and we congratulate the couple while privately hoping for the best against the odds. I can’t feel those sentiments given this context – an oscillating man waving a farcical anti-marriage banner and his shrill insistence on the deleterious effect of having a woman in your life. Suddenly a woman appears in his life, hardly a temptress, and he reflexively puts a fucking ring on it. This is after everything we all know about women and the common misery and drudgery of marriage. This is after everything he knows- that women can and will divorce you on a whim. I don’t even think it’s been a year since Mark Minter ‘entered’ this part of the web guns-a-blazin’. Well that fire went out quick!
I understand the desire for companionship, and maybe these things are more important as you get older. But please remind me: what are the benefits of a 58 year old guy going to the courthouse and getting married instead of committing to a serious long term and loving relationship? Did something about the inherent risks of marriage change? Did something about women change? Why put yourself in this situation? (Source)
[…]
Like most on the Internet, he was a paper alpha.
Like I’ve said time and again, men who get divorce raped were white knights in a previous life. Once a white night, always a white knight. A 58 year old leopard does not lost its spots.
Minter wrote well because he wrote out of bitterness and anger. His writing did not reflect deeply held philosophical beliefs. He wrote to process his anger.
Just as there aren’t many atheists in fox holes, there aren’t many MGTOW when hot snatch is in their face.
Who is that morbidly obese radio host that so many guys look up to? The fat fuck can’t control his eating and has been married 4 times. Yet guys look up to him because he TALKS a good game.
Best of luck to Minter. Since he is a beta male to his core, the cycle of his previous relationship will repeat itself. But maybe he’ll have a nice, if short, run. (Source)
[…]
Seeing one of the biggest pillars of the dark manosphere self-destruct voluntarily is incredibly repulsive.
In the manosphere’s early history books Mark Minter’s name will now forever be associated with fraud. The guy took a dump on everything he has learned in his 58 years on this earth. And pissed on everything he supposedly stood for in his divorced life. All that for an officially-sanctioned state-sponsored union with a second-hand internet slut who is about to hit a wall while handing in another man’s child to this old cuckold to raise. That would be really funny if it wasn’t so fucked up.
As horrible as that act is, the biggest insult is in the ego-driven rationale he has given for it:
“Top that motherfuckers!” taunts Mark Minter the manosphere community where he has found nothing but love, support and understanding audience in his darkest, loneliest days.
This is from an internet swordsman who was self-reportedly a sworn archenemy of the institution of marriage. Someone who has guided other men with his unsolicited diatribes as much as he sought support from that same community of men. Only to turn around with “top that motherfuckers!” the minute he was comfortable enough to believe some used internet broken female fairy who pinky-promised to submit and commit to his ego.
This is disgusting also because the one thing that separates us/men from women is the principle of our beliefs. Women are whores because they have no concept of ‘self’. Men are different from women in that once we believe in something, once we have that steadfast, unwavering faith we will never break that promise, that commitment, that belief. The real men are like bulldog locking its jaw unto a victim. The true men of history, the Jesuses, the Genghis Khans, the Hitlers, the Gandhis, the Che Guevara’s of this world, all died for their beliefs and principles (even if those beliefs were fucked up), rather than let go of them.
And now we have Mark Minter.
The first internet groupie who wiggled her tail in his direction wins him over.
A man instantly vaporized.
It’s that easy with men who are not real men.
Let that be a lesson to careless fools.
In hindsight Mark Minter’s change of heart comes as no surprise at all. Any amateur psychologist will tell you that a person who calls himself “narcissistic and Machiavellian” (like Mark has called himself) has an inherent capability to completely change his tune on a dime. But the way Mark Minter’s ego has rationalized it (“top that motherfuckers!”) is in really poor taste and is the biggest slap in the face to all real men in the manosphere. We all know that the weak-willed men will do anything for a pussy, including selling out their brothers for it. That’s exactly why the phrase ‘bros before hoes’ was coined. But to have this guy who was supposedly a walking, breathing epitome of that maxim turn around and with straight face tell us: ‘was just fucking with you, it was hoes before bros all along’ – is actually a temporary defeat for the manosphere. The manosphere can not afford to have its biggest anti-marriage spokesman run off to get married the first chance he gets. Because it leaves the system looking like a joke. I see this and I know that his shallow, self-serving ‘do as I say, not as I do’ example will more than likely lead other doubting men to eventually go on that same certifiably wrong path. (Source)
He is like the conservative politician who espouses family values while diddling young boys on the side. He is the PUA who sells products on how to get laid but can’t even approach a single woman, someone who creates a false character to gain either money or—in this case—praise, at the expense of everyone’s trust. For that reason, he has lost all respect from me. If he were to knock on my door, starving, begging for food and drink, I would only place the sustenance on my front step. He would not be permitted to enter my home so that the foul odor of hypocrisy that now trails him does not infect my place of sleep.
I hope his name will forever be synonymous with a man who doesn’t live by his own code. He deserves to be permanently exiled from the manosphere community. No more praise or compliments should be directed his way.
Read Next: The Future Of The Manopshere
The only person who is a fraud here is you, Roosh. You are a false friend; you made him a hero so you think you have the right to vilify him now without even getting the facts straight. You have bought the feminine imperative hook, line, and sinker. He’s a loser now because he doesn’t have any money? Since when was loved based on that kind of wealth. My understanding has been that he is against the feminist version of marriage, one that we will certainly not have.
Check yourself before you take this too far. You are spinning. I don’t like posting here as I know its for men, but I confess to having made a few comments before using the name Clark Clinter. Nobody seemed to have any problem with me then. So maybe you’d like to think before you shoot?
Which facts is he not getting straight?
Yesterday there was a tweet that Mark had married a single mom. First of all, we are not married yet. We are engaged. That is the traditional sign of commitment to marry where I come from.
Second, my definition of a single mom is a woman who has never been married and has a child, maybe even more than one. Perhaps even by different fathers.
I was in a long relationship (dated three- married seven) with my ex-husband. We have been divorced five years and have a six and a half year old daughter.
While I know that is not the ideal for men around here, there is a big distinction, in my eyes, between women who can get men to commit and who wait to have children versus women who can’t get men to commit or who will have children outside of marriage.
Well I am not going to speak for Roosh, I think it is pretty well accepted that it is “beta” to provide for another man’s offspring. I am not familiar enough with Mr. Minter’s work to know how he is delineating between to two. Personally, it wouldn’t make a difference to me one way or the other. If the girl has children, Im not interested. And I wouldn’t encourage anyone else to get seriously involved either.
a single mother is a single mother
I understand that sentiment. But my ex-husband is not some deadbeat. He and I provide for our daughter and Mark’s money is his own to do with as he pleases.
It is not just providing resources that is the problem. The girl has proven that she makes unsound decisions and her first priority will always be the child/children.
Mark has no money. He lives with his sister and has no job. If anything Kate and her ex husband will be providing for him. LOL!!!
You are basing that info. on something you heard from his ex-wife, correct? This is my whole beef. Mark never proclaimed he was rich. In fact, he described very difficult times a close reader would have detected. But as soon as you heard something from a woman, you immediately discredited a man and chose to believe her side of the story. Am I the only person around here who actually will defend a man’s right to have his side of the story believed? Things she has written are false and she does not seem to be very personable. So, why are you automatically taking her side of the story? Is this the Manosphere or what?
Kate, I wish you the best. Take good care of your daughter and do what’s best for her.
Thank you.
I don’t believe them because they come from a woman. I believe them because they are true.
No, she’s right in this case. The media throws around “single mom” for political reasons: 1). To “erase” men from the lives of women and kids and 2). To make fashionable for women to go it alone by making it an umbrella phrase that includes every unmarried woman with a child, including war widows.
But the phrase should only refer to women who haven’t been married but had a child. A divorced women with a child is not a single mom, but just that: a divorced woman with a child. There is a difference. I’ve complained about this before in these parts.
Few things infuriate me more than reading an online dating profile of a woman who calls herself a “single mom,” only to find out her kids have a very involved father and she was once married. See how this phrase slyly eradicates the role men once played in the lives of their own families? This is deliberate. The media knows this. Feminists know this.
Disagree with Kate all you want, but she’s right about the terminology. She is not technically a “single mom.” The phrase is pure feminist media propaganda.
Divorced moms and never married moms are both single mothers. Widows are the exception.
Well put, DoBA
KATEY taking Child Support from Ex husband as evidenced by her comments above. Well done, whoever you are Minter. You’re a great candidate for gene-culling ;D
I have to ask, Kate. Why did your last marriage end?
Let us dare be precise as the ladies would like. Tis true that a mother might be divorced with child from wedlock. The issue is: BAGGAGE IS BAGGAGE. Other guy’s kids are baggage. Other guy’s mere sexual usage is baggage on the female’s imprint gland. Ladies, we don’t give a fuck how you depreciated and lack sexual and reproductive promise any more than you give a fuck how we lack dominance and lack sexual and reproductive promise. B is B.
What am I missing here? I thought this was the alpha ideal: to finagle a way for women and beta males to provide for their lifestyle.
I disagree. Kate is a “single mom”. “Unwed mother”, “divorcee with custody”, and “widow with a child” are all subsets of “single mom”.
You’re correct, however, in your judgment that “the media throws around ‘single mom’ for political reasons”, DoBA. Lumping the sluts and frivorcees in with “war widows” gives the media arm of feminism the opportunity to steal from widows their deserved sympathy and spread the stolen goods around to the undeserving sluts and frivorcees.
Kate,what is going on here? Why would you marry a guy who has no job, is unemployable and has not had a job in several years? No wonder your parents made you go to therapy. You are not helping your child by adding someone to your household who will depend on your contributions. Why would someone who has not seen his own children in years be a good role model for your child?
I don’t blame Roosh for what he has said. Mark was posing as someone who was against marriage, but meanwhile all he was was some broke old loser who couldn’t get someone attractive. Kate, you are really attractive. Not physically an exceptional beauty, but you have a great personality that is funny and warm and a lot of guys liked you. You don’t have to settle for this guy. I don’t know why you think he is so dashing and charming, but a broke mealymouthed dude who doesn’t have enough integrity to stick to his guns can’t possibly be a good father figure for your child.
Are your parents well off, as they say? Maybe Mark is using you for access to funds (or a house of his own or something).
There are no such shenanigans going on.
Its rare than anyone outside a relationship ever understands why two people are together. I do not believe things are as dire as they *appear*. I don’t consider myself settling at all. I consider Mark to be the most intelligent, interesting, caring, and constant (when he isn’t using dread game on me) person I’ve ever known.
How can you even insinuate he wouldn’t want to see his children? It is my ardent hope that the relationship between him and his children can be repaired. It is all too common for an ex-husband to be shunted out of the family and social circle. And a situation such as what we are discussing might give him that very opportunity- to have them in his life again.
He is wonderful with my daughter already and will be such a blessing to us.
The man is a delusional, paranoid, sub-human monster. He wasn’t shunted out of his family. Good luck being married to that. I pity your poor daughter.
Mark Minter is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.
Banned. This isn’t high school. We’re talking about honor here, not if someone is a “loser”.
Wah!!!! Roosh you are a dickwad.
Mark’s financial situation is irrelevant to me. You are probably confusing me with other critics.
Whether you are 18 years old or 40, beautiful or ugly, the fact is he went against his writings. It would be like me getting engaged to an American feminist. His hypocrisy must be publicly displayed so people can make a decision on whether to follow his advice in the future. I believe they shouldn’t.
His advice to men not to marry is still valid for average circumstances. I believe we are discussing some very unusual circumstances here: a crossing of two people who have incorporated red pill/game teaching into their lives. A man and a woman who know their roles and plan to live a simple, Buddhist life together.
You don’t get it. I don’t care if any 58 year old American man marries a 34 year old. This is Mark Minter, whose work is primarily known for NOT GETTING MARRIED. It’s like the president of PETA taking secret vacations to go club seals.
Fine. We can disagree, but it is not in my nature to allow those I love to be attacked without speaking up for them.
I think this is a dilemma many a manospherian will face. And it is probably the reason so many commentors drop out of the scene. They move on. They might marry and have children. They just don’t tell anyone about it. So this image that you have of this or that poster could also be disingenuous; you just don’t know it.
And as the astute gentleman above pointed you, you too might find yourself in a position of retracting some of your earlier held beliefs as we cannot predict how we will act or think in the future. The only things set in stone is the past.
Kate’s a snowflake.
Kate. can you clear something up? Have you and Mark met in person, or has this all taken place over the internet and phone?
It’s closer to a priest who doesn’t believe in god anymore. Is his message less valid if he himself doesn’t believe?
A woman can’t be red pill because women aren’t able forge belief systems based on principles and logical reasoning.
You parrot red pill beliefs in the manosphere because you get positive attention from lots of men. Just like a small child will parrot his parents beliefs back to them in order to receive praise.
Wait, you guys are Buddhists? Which school, might I ask?
lol @ the idea of someone from PETA clubbing seals while downing a fucking burger.
The problem isn’t that he’s getting married. You can be in the manosphere and get married, provided you are smart about it.
The problem is that he turned around and betrayed his own principles. I think Roosh spelled that out pretty clearly.
I anticipate a lot of people are going to use this as evidence that everyone in the manosphere is just a bitter mra, and that is simply not true.
No, it isn’t. But the only alternative is to believe that there is something special about me, personally, and some people seem pretty determined to think that due to the “single mom” thing a woman is henceforth worthless.
You will always find a lot of half-baked opinions being thrown around in the comment section. Still, what OP said largely stands.
I’m a married guy but still find your fiance’s action indefensible. All a man has in this world is his word and integrity; it’s the bar by wich we men measure each other credibility.this is not about you it’s about him, so it’s irrelevant you are “different”. I personallywould caution men to marry carefully because stating otherwise would be disingenuous . Your man is in hot water for the same reason Anthony Weiner is; hypocrisy.
Oh, the drama. *popcorns*
http://i.imgur.com/2JuBwrQ.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSPtSEIlp8A
Mark Minter six months ago: “This article pisses me off because this Manosphere is struggling for credibility and this type of idea demeans us as thinkers.”
So, Minter is a phony who demeans us as thinkers, and a hypocrite.
Next week, we discover that “Kate” is a dude (top that motherfuckers!). It’s the new gay marriage so no worries.
So, what’s the over/under on the duration of this marriage?
Good point. I too got suspicious at that remark on The Quiet Rebel’s article.
Alright, this is fn funny. Thanks for the comic relief. Its desperately needed.
Man, what is that bride-to-be thinking marrying a vitriolic old man? Run, girl!
She’s a single mom. This is who you single moms get. Very few of you thieves get to rob more than 1 guy. Female thieves are half the population. It’s called math, dummy. Pretty much all female complaints are a variation of “WHY DO MY ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES?!”
Ohhhh shiiiiiiiiit.
But sorry, I don’t really care. This feels like the ideological puritanism and inter-bitch drama you’d see on feminist sites. Some people want to marry, some don’t. Big whoop. Whoever this Mark Minter is, anyone that’s against the feminist establishment is good enough for me.
*Every* fucking site is talking about this today. Feels like a bunch of church ladies clutching their fucking pearls as they cluck their tongues to me. Are we men or not?
Here’s a frightening thought.
Every man is beta to his core…that’s why no man has an empire that lasts forever.
You have to delude yourself into thinking otherwise.
Maybe you have the methodology at hand to prove or disprove that statement? A resulting essay might be an interesting read. Otherwise it’s just “blabla” from some guy.
Men have to submit to something.
The best thing to submit to is God…most guys choose something else.
Submitting to any religion is tantamount to forfeiting independent thought.
Well, I submit to the IRS. Because they can fuck me all kinds of ways. 😉
I agree…anything that has a set of rules and a way of living life is a religion.
The only God to submit to is the Flying Spaghetti Monster. No other God has a shred of scientific evidence supporting their existence.
I submit to imagination too.
Obviously since you believe in a God.
And you believe in levitating pasta.
It’s good to believe in something.
You know what, dude? Sometimes I meet these really serene, happy, open-faced and glowing Christian people and I think, “Wow, they really have something going.”
Then there’s the opposite: pedantic, lecturing, hectoring, slippery-slidey, negative nancy little bitches, dripping with hate and resentment and yet posing and pretending to be all calm in that ‘gotcha’ internet fake-calm way. And I think, “Wow, keep that crap a million miles from my doorstep.”
No man has to submit to anything or anyone. You submit because you want control, because you want to feel safe.
God serves to justify unnatural hierarchies, rooted in ignorance and fear.
Men don’t have to submit to something.
And God is an imaginary friend(in your head – ie it’s you) you pretend to talk to when you beg him(you) for nebulous shit and thank him(you) for fulfilling a minority of the needs he(you) created in you(even though he[you] didn’t really create you.)
Gospel. Alpha status is my favorite blog of all time, by the way.
You enjoy the Christians that don’t say anything…and hate the ones who talk about God.
That’s your problem.
You submitted to my statement.
What you just wrote is one of the most well-known logical fallacies. I will leave it to you to figure out which one it is.
Dude you’re really trolling and spamming too much. Do you have a life outside this site?
“He is like the conservative politician who espouses family values
while diddling young boys on the side. He is the PUA who sells products
on how to get laid but can’t even approach a single woman, someone who
creates a false character to gain either money or—in this case—praise,
at the expense of everyone’s trust. For that reason, he has lost all
respect from me. If he were to knock on my door, starving, begging for
food and drink, I would only place the sustenance on my front step. He
would not be permitted to enter my home so that the foul odor of
hypocrisy that now trails him does not infect my place of sleep.
I hope his name will forever be synonymous with a man who doesn’t
live by his own code. He deserves to be permanently exiled from the
manosphere community. No more praise or compliments should be directed
his way.”
You better keep these words engraved…Roosh. They might be used against you someday.
I practice what I preach. I’ve met over 200 guys in real life from my sites. I challenge you to point to one instance where it’s asserted I was not who I claim to be.
I never said you didn’t. But I also can see the possibility of it happening in the future. Keep yourself in check.
Agreed. Be humble enough to know you just don’t know.
Fact is an opinion has a time and place. And his opinions will remain just his positions at a point in time in his life.
There are no absolute truths and one should wait and see what happens to him. Maybe he’ll regret it maybe not.
This article is interesting in showing the turns life take us through, but it is also dangerously close to a personal attack.
I hope for his sake Roosh’s tombstone says…
Here lies a world traveler and poosy slayer. He stayed true to all his beliefs and never wavered from them.
I want mine to say…”he was a man”.
…as defined in the Bible as you interpret it. You mean “he was a Christian (man).” So not a ‘man’ per The Word revealed by the Flying Spaghetti Monster. That God got some dope calligraphy, all rubric.
I want mine to say “lolololollololzolzolozlozlozlo1010101010101”
Seriously, you’re dead, who gives a shit.
Can’t argue with that.
Can’t argue with that.
“I challenge you to point to one instance where it’s asserted I was not who I claim to be.”
What about that charm bracelet you wear with the engraved name “Lindy?” Hahahahahahaahaha. Admit it – that was funny.
You have to be the worst commenter on any of these blogs. Pure negative drivel. Always.
I didn’t know pointing out possible traps for people is negative.
Should I be his friend and just let him fall blindly?
“If he were to knock on my door, starving, begging for food and drink, I would only place the sustenance on my front step.”
lol
Found out about this on Heartiste today, read a large proportion of the comments.
Was wondering how you felt about it.
Congrats Mark and Kate!
Thank you very, very much.
The moral of the story is….don’t be a hypocrite.
The first one of you that isn’t one raise your hand. I’m keeping mine down…BTW.
bitch fight.
Roosh is correct of course. Minter is a hypocrite.
I personally am not as passionately outraged as some because to be honest I never bought stock in Minter’s comments, I took them as entertainment: a mixture of hate, anger, truth and sour grapes.
He dropped some great quotes, but I always thought it was obvious he was just a bitter guy. That’s what made his comments cool.
Turns out that when he said “don’t marry” he really just meant “don’t marry my ex-wife”.
Sorry, Mark. AWALT. See you in a few years.
Could Minter be a feminist psyop?
if there was an action of that type, i would guess it was her targeting him , not his previous comments being disinformation.
I don’t care that much either. His rage and bitterness never struck me as a red-pill wisdom, just anger at a situation that we could learn from. The fact that his explanation for his decision to remarry was that he found “The One” (eloquently debunked by Rollo Tomassi: http://therationalmale.com/2011/08/30/there-is-no-one/) shows how little he learned from the manosphere over the past year. Get into a serious relationship? Sure, we all like companionship, but getting married again? Cui bono?
Here’s the reality:
An average, intelligent, 58-year old non-rich single man’s best option IS a 34-year old single mom.
Never forget that a man’s value declines too. It just happens later. Marriage makes perfect sense for a man and woman when neither expects a better option in the future. I sincerely wish Mike and Kate well. Do what makes you happy.
I can even forgive MM’s hypocritical vitriol towards the institution of marriage. It appears that was just a coping mechanism for him. Life IS hard and it’s difficult to be honest with ourselves. No problem.
The traitorous part is the absurd suggestion that a 34-year old single mom has “options galore”. That’s beyond hypocrisy; it’s blue pill rationalization at its finest. Such nonsense absolutely deserves the penalty of excommunication. It is in direct opposition to our core beliefs.
“An average, intelligent, 58-year old non-rich single man’s best option IS a 34-year old single mom.”
…in the United States, Canada, Australia, and a few other pockets of the West. This does not hold true in many other parts of the world.
An average 58-year old non-rich single man can expect to do better in other parts of the world? I disagree.
It’s ironic that sometimes the sphere gets very close to putting second- and third-world women on a pedestal.
“I disagree”
Really? Why?
Yes, an average 58 year old non-rich single man can expect to do better than a 34 year old single mom in other parts of the world. Take a trip to SE Asia, Eastern Europe, Africa or any part of Latin America and see for yourself. It isn’t that hard for men with Minters profile (or worse) to go to these places and, at a bare minimum, manage to date a 30-33 year old woman who does not have children. In some parts of the world it is quite common for westerners in that age range to find women in their 20s.
I also don’t understand how my pointing out the obvious realities above amounts of pedestalization of women in developing countries.
In an effort to bash American(-influenced) women we attribute too much value to women in developing countries. It looks like putting them on a pedestal, yes. In truth it’s not that the women are all that much better, despite their increased submissiveness and femininity. It’s that we’re viewed as rich and exotic guys over there. Perceived cultural and material wealth is what primarily accounts for a Western man’s improved access to sex.
Here’s why I disagree with your assessment of a 58-year old Western man’s prospects abroad: I think of ‘prospects’ differently. I doubt Minter is getting *married* because he can’t get a BJ from a Vietnamese chic. There’s more to a woman’s value than her willingness to allow access to her vagina.
Having interesting conversations with a non-vapid woman from a similar cultural background is worth something. Women in SE Asia can’t provide it.
Having sex with someone who I can be reasonably assured has received a lifetime of vaccinations and is not carrying an unusual communicable disease is worth something. Women in Brazil or Africa, for example, can’t provide it.
A Minter type man could go on dates in developing countries and have sex there, even with a 32-year old single woman as you say. But he’s not likely to find a more satisfying relationship abroad than he can find at home. His prospects of that are at least as good in the US, especially at his age.
American women may be flaky and entitled, but at least they’re American. I think the sphere often fails to see the beneficial aspects of this fact.
“American women may be flaky and entitled, but at least” they can’t take your kids, house, income, retirement, sanity… right?
“In truth it’s not that the women are all that much better, despite their
increased submissiveness and femininity. It’s that we’re viewed as rich
and exotic guys over there. Perceived cultural and material wealth is
what primarily accounts for a Western man’s improved access to sex.”
And where did I deny the notion that exoticism and wealth play significant roles in the better outcomes men experience in these areas?
I do believe that women elsewhere outpace western women qualitatively in some respects and cultural differences do play a role (some societies are more open to age gaps than ours). That being said, I’m not delusional enough to deny the impact that wealth and exoticism have in romantic outcomes for guys who travel.
I simply said that an average 58-year old non-rich single man can expect to do better (on average) in parts of the world outside of the western anglosphere, and I think that this point stands.
Is this difference due to his wealth/exoticism in other places? Certainly so in large part, but at the end of the day he is still doing better, which is my point.
“Having interesting conversations with a non-vapid woman from a similar
cultural background is worth something. Women in SE Asia can’t provide
it.”
Plenty of women in Latin America, Europe, Africa, and Asia (including SE Asia) are capable of having interesting conversations and behaving in a non-vapid manner. They also offer a level of femininity rarely provided (and often derided) by women in the west. If you’re someone into a more ‘traditional’ kind of relationship, the benefits of a relationship overseas are likely to be even greater given the sheer lack of respect that “traditionalism” gets here in the west.
I’m not convinced that “non-vapid” women are somehow more common here in the US than they are elsewhere. This is to say nothing of concerns relating to obesity, family law and other issues that are bigger concerns here in the US than they are elsewhere.
“A Minter type man could go on dates in developing countries and have sex there, even with a 32-year old single woman as you say. But he’s not likely to find a more satisfying relationship abroad than he can find at home.”
He’s more likely to find a “non-vapid”, young, single, childless, feminine, traditional woman overseas than he is here. His wealth and relative exotic status also increase the quality of what he would get (read: the woman would probably be more attractive than what he would get here and more willing to deal with the larger age gap that dating him would require).
I think that all of those things could lead to a “more satisfying relationship” than he could have at home with a woman who is almost certainly going to be older, fatter, less feminine, probably no less vapid (and possibly more so), and backed by a much more powerful and anti-male cultural feminine imperative and legal/family law system.
This on top of the fact that he won’t have any powerful multipliers for his sexual market value (not exotic, not rich by western standards), thus further impacting the quality of what he would get.
“American women may be flaky and entitled, but at least they’re American.
I think the sphere often fails to see the beneficial aspects of this
fact.”
The sphere doesn’t harp on those “beneficial aspects” because they are outweighed by their negative counterparts.
You seem to be engaging in the same kind of pedestalization with respect to American women that you claim the sphere to be engaging in with respect to women in other parts of the world.
You are correct in noting that American women are, on average, overly flaky and entitled. You’re illustrating a big reason why: too many men are willing to brush these faults under the rug (“at least they’re American!”) and put them on a pedestal anyway.
“Having interesting conversations with a non-vapid woman from a similar cultural background is worth something. Women in SE Asia can’t provide it.”
Lol, most alpha males don’t give a fuck about conversations with the women they are with. In fact it’s the last thing most of us care about.
The best relationship I’ve ever had was with a woman who just kept her mouth shut most of the time.
Talking to women is pretty damn boring and they all say the same things.
“Having interesting conversations with a non-vapid woman from a similar cultural background is worth something. Women in SE Asia can’t provide it.”
And you know this because…?
What a keyboard jockey.
This is a great comment. Cogent, detailed, and well written.
We don’t overvalue foreign women. All value is relative, and in relation to American women, their value is quite high, due to their humanity, femininity, and generally better physical qualities. Are foreign women perfect? No, of course not, and no one has ever said otherwise.
It is true that there is something to be said for coming from a similar culture, and that a foreign woman is not going to be able to reminisce with you about Seinfeld episodes or be able to quote lines from movies with you. But big deal.
Guys who are looking for a wife or long term girlfriend want a woman, not a guy with a vagina. We don’t want a pal.
The truth is, as Samseau so astutely notes, that you’re almost never going to have a decent intellectual discussion with a woman. They’re not capable of it. This is why men need to seek out other men for intellectual stimulation.
I say that not out of spite or anger, but simply out of my experience. It is not in a sexy woman’s skill set to be an erudite scholar.
“It is not in a sexy woman’s skill set to be an erudite scholar.”
Bingo! Still some blue-pill if you want to NOT be lonely at the top of your castle domicile. That’s how you know you’re doing it right and deserve respect from other such men.
Break out the Game 101 syllabus, and let’s begin…
lmfao
>> “Is this difference due to his wealth/exoticism in other places? Certainly so in large part, but at the end of the day he is still doing better, which is my point.”
I can concede this. Point earned.
>> “You seem to be engaging in the same kind of pedestalization with respect to American women that you claim the sphere to be engaging in with respect to women in other parts of the world.”
Please. I’ve never suggested American women are great. I’m just looking for a more realistic depiction of the merits and drawbacks of women in every culture.
No one in our discussion today has acknowledged a single positive characteristic about American women without immediately dismissing it as valueless. That’s my point.
The sphere’s hostility toward American women is taken to its most extreme; over-generalized and reflexive, with no nuance. I don’t think it’s a useful stance for someone trying to get laid. There are sexual opportunities in the West, albeit with admittedly worse odds.
The red pill is about accepting reality, not about painting a deluded picture of American women to counter their own deluded pictures.
I’m just getting tired of the hyperbole about American women. It’s not helpful. Game would be more useful if it told men how to pan for gold in America. Third world countries come with their own problems, not least of them being disease and the language barrier.
Minter shows us that excessive rage against something probably isn’t credible. But that’s what I’m seeing too much of.
In any case my original statement still stands largely intact – a 34yo mom is a good option for a 58yo average guy. Five years from now he’ll be collecting social security checks and she’ll still look like a wise choice.
None of this justifies Minter’s hypocrisy.
>> “Lol, most alpha males don’t give a fuck about conversations with the women they are with.”
Well, I do give a fuck. Talking to women isn’t inherently boring. And they don’t all say the same things. I have yet to meet a person I couldn’t learn something from. Talking is also an important element of building sexual tension, so a woman’s ability to converse actually does matter to me.
My mind is not so narrow that I’d be perfectly happy only hearing from dudes.
>> “What a keyboard jockey.”
I feel particularly comfortable around guys who resort to calling someone a name. They are most definitely not alphas.
“Talking to women isn’t inherently boring. And they don’t all say the same things.”
Go approach 500 women and get back to me on this.
Quintus,
You bring up an interesting point and one that often plays upon my mind. I think that a lot of the bitterness and contempt I and other men feel towards women is due to the fact that modern society and feminism has taught us to judge women as men and hold them to the same standards as men.
In Otto Weininger’s book “Sex and Character” he presents the idea of man being spirit and woman soul in regards to the Platonic tripartite being. This was later adopted in Evola’s “Metaphysics of Sex” where he explains the archetypes and role of women as both Demetarian and Aphroditic.
I think this ties into the idea of women being complementary to man rather than in competition as the modern age has taught us.
Here is an article that talks roughly about what I mean
http://www.gornahoor.net/?p=6685
. It is the idea of marriage as alchemical, organic and spiritual rather than corporeal as we have today with state sanctioned marriage.
Of course I don’t really pretend to understand the link between man and women in Tradition but I think it would be a good idea to research it, if only so that we can understand ourselves and our role in the world as men.
Well, I know you won’t want to believe it, but its true. I’ve dated PhDs, medical doctors, men who made and lost millions, etc., but for none of them did I have the attraction and respect I do for Mark. Neither did they have the COURAGE that he does.
OK, so carousel days are over. What a bargain! Man up Minter, man up and show some COURAGE.
Hahaha, so true.
That’s telling.
I don’t know of this guy’s preachings so I’m an outsider (clearly evident after some comments). It just strikes me as odd how someone can be so against marriage, particularly to American women, but then goes and marries (or sets out to) an American female.
Some men just can’t be taken at their word. You need to be in control of your emotions, particularly if you blog (which I assume this man did). I prefer to be a man of my word. If my theories and beliefs change over the years it is gradual and communicated. I think this is what sets a lot of men and women apart. I don’t meet a lot (any actually) women who’s words and actions move in sync.
He is not a blogger. He is a commentor. And comments that he wrote were reposted by admiring bloggers. It was never his intention, in my opinion, to gain this kind of notoriety.
I live in a small, quiet town that is like the America of yesteryear. It is preferable to live in an antiquated American town than a foreign one. He’s not an exile who must be banished from his own country.
Commenter? You mean like what I’m doing but with regularity? I think I’ll just watch this from the sidelines. I don’t know who this guy is.
Yes, he makes comments, just like you. He does not have a blog. He wrote some rather long and inflammatory comments that gained admiration. It was not for quite some time after they had been reposted that he even knew that had been done. I am sure it was both flattering and alarming to have all that out there so popular under your real name.
I see. I have to respect you standing up for him. I may not agree with the apparent hypocrisy, but I am an outsider so think of how it appears. The internet. Can be sticky.
I didn’t select the links at the start. I remember those posts. Now I get it. Always late to the party. Now I can move on.
Wait….so they met via commenting on men’s blogs?
Many of these phonies running around N.A. at this present time, saying that they’re done with American girls and totally into foreign women– until a white girl starts being to them and all of sudden the interest for culture is lost. These false statements are not a man in a reformed state of mind, just a high degree of sexual frustration. Betas will always settle for women that resemble their moms in some way, probably a subconscious urge to redeem themselves in a similar woman’s eyes. What the manosphere doesn’t specify is that foreign women desire real men since they are twice as feminine as the women in the states. Enjoy a shitty American life with “Kate”, Mark Minter, and let this be a lesson to all that the only way to avoiding the hypocrisy route is to practice what you preach.
The problem with the Manosphere is that many in it, contrary to their delusions, have no understanding of history.
There is a very old archetype known as the Wanderer, who can be considered the immature form of the Prince, aka the Hero on a Quest. Think Han Solo.
Now when the Prince meets his Princess….he grows up and gives up that MGTOW. Just as Solo did.
All those foolish, immature MGTOW types will always give it up as soon as they meet their Princess.
And people wonder why I call so many of the fools in the Manosphere, The Lost Boys.
For that matter, those who devote their lives to seducing women as traditionally know as Cads…and they always poison their souls.
“The worst thing is that if you go and read Roissy’s comments he’s
crowing about the whole thing as if it’s something to be proud of.”
SRS pls go
Many of these phonies running around N.A. at this present time, saying that they’re done with American girls and totally into foreign women– until a white girl starts being all into them and all of sudden the interest for culture is lost. These false statements are not a man in a reformed state of mind, just a high degree of sexual frustration. Betas will always settle for women that resemble their moms in some way, probably a subconscious urge to redeem themselves in a similar woman’s eyes. What the manosphere doesn’t specify is that foreign women desire real men since they are twice as feminine as the women in the states. Enjoy a shitty American life with “Kate”, Mark Minter, and let this be a lesson to all that the only way to avoiding the hypocrisy route is to practice what you preach.
Whoa man. My mother is very traditional and an anomaly among today’s western society. Some people have these mothers. Wouldn’t marry anyone who didn’t resemble most of her traits, for she was a great mother. This alpha / beta labelling goes too far sometimes.
Careful with that. While I love my mom I’d never date a girl with her behaviour
Congratulations Mark and Kate!
Just wondering y’all planning to have more kiddies?
Thank you, Mike.
Roosh, and the rest of ya, c’mon, Really. This is like a friend of yours who got married, got bitterly divorced, had some views and expressed those views to ‘never get married again’ (etc. etc.) and then found happiness witha woman and changed his tune. Love conquers all man. Smile and wish him the best. A man can change his mind and he’s happy. So what if he ‘went against’ his previous writings on the institution of marriage?’ SO WHAT ? Oh, and she’s a single mom ? Well maybe it will not only be good for the kid but for him as well – does that not strike you all as another possibly beautiful new relationship ? What if you were that young boy with a single Mom and she married a good man that you liked and liked you and could bring a lot to your life ? What about that kid ? What if Mark Minter benefits a lot from that boy-stepfather relationship too ? Is that in violation of some other ‘manosphere rules ‘ ? A lot of y’all are becoming Taliban like anti-marriage extremists. No no, you’ll say, “he wrote his views and went against them !!” so fu%&ing what ! He fell in love. Lighten up, really – you’re waaaaaay to invested in this.
“Manosphere Taliban” is what I hereby dub y’all 🙂
Roosh deserves much credit for posting this article. It certainly was not easy for him, and I can tell it pained him greatly to do it.
But at some point we must be held to account for our words and actions. I think Roosh is absolutely correct in everything he says. How do I know?
The revelation come in Mr. Minter’s own words. He says, “I’m 58 years old. None of you know what that truly means until you get to that point in your life.”
This sounds to me very much like he is saying, in effect, I’m old, I’m lonely, I’m infirm, and I need to be taken care of. If so, then he is making his decision to get married on fear, not on genuine conviction. No one ever said that getting married is wrong. What is wrong is hypocrisy.
And a truly wise man, a truly whole man, will not make decisions based on fear. Fear is a disease of the mind, a disorder of the soul. Wisdom is a sound condition of the soul.
Viewed in this light, Mr. Minter’s strongly stated opinions now, in retrospect, look more like empty tantrums than wisdom coming from genuine conviction. And Roosh is calling him out on it. Harsh? I don’t think so.
This is the wake up call, if one was ever needed, that we take these things very, very seriously. This is not a summer camp, this is not a fucking bitch session.
And someone who is out there in the field, risking his ass by living in foreign countries and, has no patience or tolerance for a poser or a faker. And neither do I.
What is one man’s life worth? If a 58 year old man were truly wise, he would not fear death, loneliness, or isolation. He would have spent his years in acquiring wisdom, physical fitness, and a philosophic outlook, which would have shielded him from the terrors of old age. Note that I did not say money. Money is a cop-out, used by people who lack the hardness and iron will to fight it out to the last.
A brave post by Roosh, and a necessary one.
He’s saying that marriage has more upside than downside at his age. Not marrying out of principle would be silly.
Yeah, NOW hes saying that marriage has more upsides than downsides for a man at his age. I dont recall him making any such qualifications during his rants against marriage a few short months ago. Back then he was saying that marriage is bad, and if you do it youre an idiot – period.
As for not marrying out of principle being “silly”, well, for some men, their principles actually mean something to them. Its traditional old school masculinity, you say what you think, and abide by your word, earning you the respect of other men. Its a little dated now, you cant realistically expect people to abide by this code, which is why Im not particularly upset or surprised by this. Some of the readers here are though, because they are trying to bring these traditional standards back. A noble goal, which I am unfortunately far too cynical to think is possible to achieve, but I hope it works out. The fact that you think abiding by ones own stated principles is “silly” though, likely means you dont have the proper frame of reference to understand why people here are so pissed off.
If you don’t want to be a hypocrite…speak less and speak truthful.
I’d suggest looking up how Calvin Coolidge spoke as a guide.
I’d go one step farther – if you don’t want to be a hypocrite, don’t speak about your personal opinions. ever.
Opinions change over time, but the internet is timeless. At some point, you’re going to realize you were wrong about something and no matter how much you try to explain, people are going to call you a hypocrite. That’s the beauty and the tragedy of the internet – it allows you to converse with people you’d never get a chance to meet in person and it lets you judge people you’ve never met without consequence.
I do not believe he is motivated by fear at all. I consider him quite fearless. And he makes it known he has alternatives to our proposed life together, which he does.
It’s called game.
and
There’s always an alternative to anything. Sometimes it’s just more difficult to take.
If a 60 year old, broke, unemployable, thrice divorced, basement dwelling paper alpha has alternatives then it speaks very lowly of you, frankly. I think hanging around the manosphere has really gutted your self-esteem and value, Kate, if you think this guy is the best you can do;
I sincerely mean it when I say, you can much better.
” She puts 100% of the blame on the guy. She talked about herself like she’s a pure victim. Her main quibble? She wanted to quit working entirely and he had a problem with being her slave and eventually paying her alimony for life. LOL. She’ll talk trash about you, one day. Soon.”
Guilty until proven otherwise. We’ll see how this pans out.
Well fucking said.
Thanks, Chris. (By the way, man: You and I often get pummeled for doing our thing, and taking risks. But like recognizes like, and I dig your style). Don’t change, man.
I’ll hold the video camera while you two faggots suck each other off.
” No one ever said that getting married is wrong.”
Actually, Minter did. Laughs.
The worst thing is that if you go and read Roissy’s comments he’s crowing about the whole thing as if it’s something to be proud of.
Worse, Roissy’s female readers are giggling in excited anticipation about the new couple and a lot of them are “hoping” that they can find a man in a similar way. It’s hard to believe that Chateau Heartise is actually supposed to be a game blog, it’s sickening and cringeworthy and Roissy plays up to his female fans.
I hate it how every serious male movement gets undermined and subverted by females to the point that any higher(particularly spiritual or ethical) goals are ridden roughshod over and forgotten as soon as the first woman gives her inane opinion on something.
The conversation then tends to regress towards a sort of “mah dick” one upmanship and competition for the attention of the females to their narcissistic and shallow minded delight.
All women should be banned from game blogs and serious male movements. It’s the only way we’ll achieve anything of value.
Heartiste is basically the Onion meets Jezebel, for AFCs.
Really?
How can Roissy be compared to Jezebel?
By far the most gifted blogger in the manosphere, MAYBE barring Rollo.
you just exposed yourself as an omega
By all means, investigate the term “semi-erudite.”
I agree with all of your sentiments except this one:
“All women should be banned from game blogs and serious male movements. It’s the only way we’ll achieve anything of value.”
This is a form of pedestalization and is to be avoided. Excluding women because you cannot stand them is as bad including them because you love them so much.
Whether or not women should be included is not a decision to be made based on feelings. Instead, before the organization is created, it’s leader must decide what kind of organization it is and whether or not women belong there.
A game blog that excludes women? For what point? Who fucking cares? A forum that excludes women? Sure. It serves a purpose – only male perspectives allowed.
Even RoK is not against women writing here, instead we try to hold high standards for writing and craftsmanship of ideas. Whether the author is male or female is immaterial. That said, I can’t imagine women contributing much of value here. The average woman is a pitiful thinker.
I agree with you. My statement was probably a little hasty and emotionally driven, not entirely rational. I think that you’re right in that the line must be drawn for free speech to be a possibility.
I am however tired of seeing guys that I know being constantly thrown under the bus at the whim of women. I feel that men have little to nowhere left to go and not many places left to truly speak their mind.
It seems that when men get together a lot of truly frank, philosophical and thought provoking discussions can take place. I mean talking about anything from space travel, mechanical engineering to big game hunting without fear of social judgement or condemnation.
When women get together it seems the entire conversation is about other people, childish babble about who likes who or who is “hot” at the moment.
“It seems that when men get together a lot of truly frank, philosophical and thought provoking discussions can take place. I mean talking about anything from space travel, mechanical engineering to big game hunting without fear of social judgement or condemnation.”
Not necessarily. Most men are almost as worthless as women are. They contribute little of value and instead talk about dumb shit like TV, sports, or video games all day long.
I’ve found that when I meet men who can have interesting and rational conversations for extended periods of time, then you should cherish the moment because it is the exception and not the norm. It’s part of the reason why I enjoy the RooshV Forums so much, because most guys on there are all about rationality and deep discussion.
That said, I find the average conversations women have are so mind numbing it puts me to sleep.
I think that most men originally come to the manosphere as a place to try and make sense of their lives after going through the hell that is modern dating/marriage and relationships.
Slowly the reality dawns on us that we’re not just refugees from a system designed to enslave us, that suffers no dissidence but that we’re actually fighting a holy war for our very sense of self.
That’s what makes what Mark Minter did so biting and hurtful, he betrayed his own after knowing better.
Quintus Curtius is right, this is a warriors journey that only the bravest and strongest deserve to survive and achieve immortality in Elysium/Valhalla, whatever metaphor you want to use for the sense of absolute freedom and mastery over self.
“We are the ghosts of a war that we have not fought. … Having opened our eyes on a disenchanted world, we are more than any others the children of the absurd. On certain days, the senselessness of the world weighs on us like a deformity. It seems to us that God has died of old age, and we exist without a goal. … We are not embittered; we start from zero. We were born among the ruins. When we were born, the gold was already transmuted into lead.”
– Paul van den Bosch.
I’m glad someone is listening, John. You have heard me well.
There is freedom to be gained when we realize that we are all, fundamentally, alone. A woman cannot complete you. A woman cannot soothe the terrors and fears of old age and infirmity. You have to do that yourself. And your weapons are your iron will, your philosophy, and the soul of a mystic.
The soul of the mystic who sees the unity of all things. And who knows that there is a higher good outside the prison of this material world. Only in this way can we arm ourselves from the tribulations of age and fate.
A true seeker, a true mystic, will laugh at fear, and will know that a price will always be paid for being enslaved by it. When you have seen death up close you will be liberated from the fear of dying.
I find the average conversations women have are so mind numbing it puts me to sleep.
—————
spoken like a true undercover feminist
Thank you, Quintus. It’s good to be here and speaking with you and Samseau. I’ll leave one more quote.
Whence this lifeless dejection, Arjuna, in this hour, the hour of
trial? Strong men know not despair, Arjuna, for this wins neither heaven nor Earth. Fall not into degrading weakness, for this becomes not a man who is a man. Throw off this ignoble discouragement, and arise like a fire that burns all before it.
— II.2–3 Bhagavad Gita
I like.
absolutely correct
“The worst thing is that if you go and read Roissy’s comments he’s
crowing about the whole thing as if it’s something to be proud of.”
Come on, this was more being amused about people accusing game of being about promiscuity nd nothing else.
I’m not even sure if he knew about her kid.
I stopped taking Roissy seriously when he started dialing up his racism
That’s when I started taking him seriously. It’s the best thing about his blog.
spoken like a true splc plant
I’m a plant. A gardenia.
Exactly. Heartiste is good for the adults, Roosh is good for the children. Like this idiotic and childish post.
The Beta of plants.
Precisely. I’ve always felt like Roosh was the equivalent of Roissy’s kid brother tag-along. He kind of gets it, but he’s still way too immature to tackle the big boy stuff. His readers fit the same profile.
I disagree. While they both write about same subject, Roosh is respectful and humble while Heartiste is self-absorbed and douchy.
Roissy or Heartiste is more the Angry White Man, butt hurt Beta type. His racism reveals he is weak. Will say that he is a good game writer in hiding.
Roissy it’s commenting on his own blog very differently as he used to comment: he sed to post his responses to the comments in an bolded (black) edit and now he’s answering directly with his/her wordpress account to praise a marriage between two internet characters.
Roissy’s self aggrandizing has become unbearable.
Of interest: Raex Patriarch – “Is heartiste actually a chick?” http://rexpatriarch.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/is-heartiste-actually-chick.html
Gawd !!!! It re-enforces my (yes hard to believe) belief that women get on these forums to find men ! Yuk yuk and double yuk !
How can you tell which posters are women unless you demand identification on subscription ? Oh wait a minute you can tell from the number of “I”s in the blather.
John,
“I hate it how every serious male movement gets undermined and subverted by females to the point that any higher(particularly spiritual or ethical) goals are ridden roughshod over and forgotten as soon as the first woman gives her inane opinion on something.”
Exactly. As we have seen with GWW the men are falling all over her to praise her. When I point out that she has done NONE of the things I have done do men say “Gee, Peter is right, he has done MUCH more for us than GWW, we men should judge people base on merit and not sex”?
Nope…that is not what men say…they say “Hey, don’t attack GWW, she’s great, she’s the sort of woman all us men want, she’s speaking out for us.”
Yea, right…and I have some beach front property in Arizona to sell you. Here is my recent video on this very topic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIwp_-yfIPM
An excellent comment. The point about getting married based on fear is a good one. Minter’s actions help to validate the tired “but you’ll be lonely when you’re old!” canard levied at men who openly question the wisdom of the institution.
If you find me a hypocrite then that it your choice. You all are searching for some path.
I am 58, and I promise all of you, things will change for you dramatically once you do cross 50.
My financial situation has become most public. Divorce took me from a prosperous upper middle class suburbanite to my bottom some one year ago when I found this manosphere. Yes, you can go and find my ex-wife jumping up and down over money, and lack of my ability to pay. Economic forces, my age, and some of the actions I took under the cloud of depression in the first years after divorce caused jobs that I could get with a snap of a finger before 2001 to become few and far between. Interviews that were mere formalities before become inquisitions. And I aggravated my situation by trying to leave the country without guidance, to find how to do it own my own.
And also, unlike almost all of you I never hid behind a pen name, And I have paid the price for my participation. I have been ostracized by family and anyone that searched by name before, particularly any woman, immediately leaped to conclusions about me that preclude from any corporate job for the rest of my life.
I would say this, “this internet groupie” is not what you say she is. She is a woman that has questioned what she was told by the culture as well as any of you. She has been a part of this manosphere well before many of you. Few of you will have discussions as we have had. Few of you will ever meet a woman that wishes to know herself. She commented to me that “For women hypergamy is hard to accept”. I said “Why, the whole story, the studies, the anecdotes and study of men is a cogent and consistent”. She said “It’s not that. It is that it is hard to accept that women have such a negative and dark to their personality”
Rollo once responded to a question “Can a woman overcome her hypergamy?”
I feel this woman has. And rather than celebrate her for her efforts. The very things you value in women, low N count, placing family over career, seeking a relationship where the man is the man and the woman is the woman, she has adopted and understands those are the things that make women happy. You shame her.
The whole point of the “Top that, motherfuckers” was no so much a gloat, but rather an affirmation that if you follow the teachings, that you can reach your relationship goals whatever they may be. That the teachings work. That they can help a beaten down, near suicidal old man, get up, find himself, know himself, and achieve something. In dealings with this woman, and all women, since I have learned them, have been what I have learned from this community. If you think a 58 year old man is going to go out and work Day Game, you better think again. And in this particular relationship I worked the concepts and even with a woman that knows them, that sees them coming, they still work.
No, three months ago, the idea of marriage was far, far, far from my mind. And even before all of this I had issues with it, not only with the institution, but with the statement I would make to all of you. I had these visions of Shoeless Joe Jackson coming out the courthouse after the Blacks Sox Trials and the little kid saying “Say, it ain’t so Joe.”
But I agreed to it because this woman wished to give this example to her daughter, that the path to happiness for a woman is not “leaning in”, is not “you go gurl”, is not “strong and independent”, but rather in knowing herself, knowing those things that make women happy, in accepting the institution as it is meant to be and not as women think of it today.
And frankly, I didn’t think I had a lot to lose, and quite a lot to gain. And quite a lot to gain.
And I can see that many of you struggling with finding PostModern meaning, even the sponsor and prime author of this blog, and I would assume, my greatest denouncer, are struggling with meaning in life after established institutions and accepted paths have broken down. I do to, as much as anyone. I don’t have years to find the right path.
I wouldn’t recommend this path to 99.9% of you because hopefully you are not in my situation. And you have the years ahead of you that I do not have.
My writing has been a cautionary tale of what can happen to men if they adopt marriage 2.0, of what can happen to you. Everything and I mean Everything I ever wrote was 100% truthful. Everything happened as I said it happened.
I don’t think I ever positioned myself as some sort of mighty alpha at this point in my life. And I thought it was assumed that I was a story of warning. And the success I had with women since the divorce has come in Colombia where there is entirely different set of rules.
I resisted having a blog, I never tried to commercialize or gain on anything I wrote and assumed myself to be just one more contributor of experience to this community.
And yes, though great rantings were near a year ago and it has been a trip through the last year. And in the intervening time, my research and writing was about discovering how to be better, do better, and particularly involved in the endocrine system and the effect of testosterone on men and that effect on women.
To be “Branded” like this, to have ensigns of rank ripped of my shoulders, to be drummed out like this, for marrying a manosphere woman, is going to be quite a shock. And frankly I don’t think the relationship will withstand so public a humiliation.
I had one consolation before, and that was someday when my son searched for my name he would find that writing, that would show him the path to be a better man, to learn to defend himself against this culture, and to know I was part of the good fight.
And now even the most heinous enemy of you has not been shamed in the way I have. And I have not been your enemy.
As I type this I see all these new comments coming in probably to pile on.
What I learned here had an effect on my life. I have a project I probably would not have had without the inspiration to seek a way outside of the “grid” and I have found that. I had found a way to understand what happened to me, a way to prevent it from happening in the future.
And surely the days ahead will test all of that and certainly test me.
I wish you all the best of luck.
Now I feel bad cause you write so well. =/
falling for his
feminine ragingeloquence is why everyone’s all pissed at him now. so don’t feel bad.not too long ago he was spitting out nuggets like this one:
‘But realistically, I find women to be like razors. The quality ones cost more. All can cause irritation no matter the quality. And they all get dull with time and are best changed regularly.’
so i ask of mark, how often are you going to change this razor?
falling for his
feminine ragingeloquence is why everyone’s all pissed at him now. so don’t feel bad.not too long ago he was spitting out nuggets like this one:
‘But realistically, I find women to be like razors. The quality ones cost more. All can cause irritation no matter the quality. And they all get dull with time and are best changed regularly.’
so i ask of mark, how often are you going to change this razor?
you better be playing all the holes on that golf course at least.
You and Kate should start your own blog.
I think it’s right that they burn you on the stake for your hypocrisy. You have disrespected the manosphere and what we believe in. You should have just disappeared, but now anyone that had something against us and criticized the sphere will point at you.
you should be made an example of. I suggest you take it ….like a man.
Now, Kate is a decent contributor as well. She should have known better. You both should have kept your shit IRL. Now it affects all of us.
Another thing, the only issue i have with kate is that she refuses to accept that she chose wrong, married wrong. She always wants to play the woe is me card about her status as single mother.
“if you find me a hypocrite…”
If? Can you possibly be serious?
You should have just disappeared, but now anyone that had something against us and criticized the sphere will point at you.
———–
fatrelly’s gonna have a field day with this one
Unless Mark Minter IS Futrelle? It’s all a conspiracy, man.
“I feel this woman has. And rather than celebrate her for her efforts. The very things you value in women, low N count, placing family over career, seeking a relationship where the man is the man and the woman is the woman, she has adopted and understands those are the things that make women happy. You shame her.”
Thank you for pointing this out, Mark. I can understand why you’re being criticized by some, given your previous writings, but the personal attacks on Kate are unwarranted and surprising to me. Maybe there are people who need to believe all women are cruel by nature, rotten to the core, and unworthy of long term commitment? They refuse to believe you have found a good, loyal woman because they’ve convinced themselves they don’t exist. But there are some of us who have those values and practice them in our lives daily, and are always working to improve ourselves. Trying to be the ideal women that men say they want, and lament they can’t find. Kate sounds like such a woman… yet she is insulted and ridiculed by men who have never met her. I like alpha men, but that’s not alpha to me.
Good luck and best wishes to both of you.
As if we really want to hear from a hormonal driven animal on this topic. Bitch, go make us a sandwich!
How about you finish puberty, first? Asswipe.
What is this shit degenerating into? fucking hell.
“Kate sounds like such a woman… yet she is insulted and ridiculed by men who have never met her. ”
They ridicule Mark, not her.
Hey white knight, shut the fuck up!
“Rollo once responded to a question “Can a woman overcome her hypergamy?”
I feel this woman has. And rather than celebrate her for her efforts. The very things you value in women, low N count, placing family over career, seeking a relationship where the man is the man and the woman is the woman, she has adopted and understands those are the things that make women happy. You shame her.”
Your limerent rationalizations are ridiculous, I do hope you understand this. When things between you and Kate are over, hopefully you can come back to this post and understand how weak you are.
It’s too bad – you’ve got a mind that understands, but your mind is basically a slave to your dick and other emotions. This will not end well for you. You will get burned, and you will beat yourself up afterwards for not taking your own advice written in your rant, “Marriage is for Pussies.” Because right now, you are acting like a huge pussy.
Although you are poor and have nothing left to lose, there is no reason why you should get engaged, let alone marry, Kate instead of dating her for an extended period of time first (at LEAST 2 years). You think you have something to gain but instead you are rushing back to the same prison you once escaped.
“… Toynbee has shown that the challenge to mankind of
environmentally and spiritually harsh and problematic conditions is often the incentive that awakens the creative energies of civilization. … It is commonplace that all the higher virtues attenuate and atrophy under easy conditions, when man is not forced to prove himself in some way.”
– Julius Evola
She’s only being nice to you because she’s a single mother and in need of a useful idiot, and thus taking advantage of a man who is scared to grow old alone ( that man is you, moron) – I can understand the idea of going to SA and having a latina gf to help you for companionship, but to legally shackle yourself to an american female, in the usa where the laws are stacked against you, to a single mother, probably laced with incurable STD’s, all of this grates against all logic, period. Like was posted before by someone else, see you after the bitch finds someone else and decides to move on.
He doesn’t have any money or a job or children.
He can still play the role of a utilitarian dink and ass wiper to her – all slaves have a use regardless of resources http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072000/?ref_=sr_2
Choosing marriage from a place of fear and despair can only have one result: Slavery of your mind and soul.
End the engagement, get back on YOUR feet, and cut this nonsensical bullshit out.
The fact that you’re entering this relationship as though you have no choice simply shows the manosphere who wears the pants already: Kate.
I agree, Christian.
So true what you said about choosing marriage from a place of fear and despair. Historically only women did that. Are the roles of the sexes reveresed to such a point ?
Why don’t you guys get off of the internet and delete your blogs? That will keep everybody sane. Take a vacation.
Look you write well, and you have my empathy as a fellow human who’s trying to make it through this dirty shit storm we call life.
But you still don’t get it.
Did you somehow forget that this community is composed of people who understand the FACT that the things valuable in a marriage- love, trust, companionship, support, monogamy, commitment- can be obtained …you know…without getting married?
Sir, you’re not getting skewered for hooking up with a manosphere woman, although that’s questionable in it’s own right. You’re being raked over the coals because you’re going against emphatically stated convictions and MARRYING one. And this is after eliciting a degree sympathy, respect, and praise – the noblest things that a man can bestow on another man. By definition, these things are hard for men to earn. You took something of value while giving us something counterfeit.
You may not have positioned yourself as an alpha, but you did position yourself as an authority. What adds insult to injury was that you played very well to our mythos. In a society that’s hostile to our beliefs, you were living proof of what all of us believe based on our collective experiences and observations: that for most men, marriage is a bad decision and poisonous to their well being. But now you’re off the team.
The humiliation coming your way is merited, but a life of misery is not. Wish you the best, from one person to another. Life’s hard and I hope you get it sorted.
What you’re saying would be all well and good… if you had someone with a gun to your head, forcing you to marry before you die.
There is no such person, and there is no such gun.
As I’ve said before, and I’m saying again, there’s nothing wrong with getting married. In fact, you can be part of the manosphere and get married, if you’re smart about it.
But you yourself said that marriage is wrong and to be avoided. And now you’re justifying it by “I’m old, you guys just don’t understand!” Well, maybe you should have mentioned that little “Marriage is wrong EXCEPT when you’re 58” detail in your blog posts.
Here’s a funny story. Before Islam, Arabs had a tradition of having many many wives. Muhammad did not have many wives, and decreed that the maximum amount of allowed wives is four. God does not permit men to have more than four wives, he said.
So what did he do? Several years later, when he found himself ruler of Medina and had girls falling over him, he claimed to have recieved revelation from God that the prophet (himself) is the only exception to the wife rule. He can have as many wives as he wants. Muhammad winded up having no less than eleven simultaneous wives.
His youngest wife, Aisha (who was a bit of a smartass), quipped, “It seems your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire!”
She was punished (not too severely though, Muhammad really liked her).
hah
tbf, if one is special, I can imagine that God would make exceptions for the guy who literally fought wars for you 😛
“If you find me a hypocrite then that is your choice”
I cant NOT find you a hypocrite Mark. This is one of the most clear cut cases of hypocrisy I have seen in recent memory. You passionately advocated against marriage without reservation for months on end, and then went and got engaged. How else would you expect people to interpret that?
That being said, Im not going to join the mob here that seems to want to burn you as an effigy. When it comes to marriage, society already punishes men who make bad choices to a sufficient extent that I dont feel a need to pile on. If this decision turns out to be a bad one, Im sure youre quite aware what you will be in for. I hope things dont go bad, no man deserves what our society does to men who do the “right thing” by marrying. But you know what they say…. Deserve aint got nothin to do with it…
This whole comment makes me really sad. Just withdraw from the stage quickly, quietly and shortly, please Mark.
The first half is explaining your hardships for taking the red pill. well no shit, thats why its called the red pill. A man with mastery over his self, his wants and needs, and shortens them to the primal and necessary as and when requires, is free no matter how shit the world gets. Economic hardship [as has been the case for most if not all living history] is never an excuse to sacrifice one’s values.
The second half is explaining how your new women is ‘not all women are like that’ level of special. How she got the man that said “never marry” to remarry. After a messy divorce no less. She won even despite all your counters about her red pill bona fides. She uses reflected glory from your success in the manosphere to built up her self image. She’s won man. And whats more she’s got you boasting about it.
You’ve been manipulated yet again Mark, if you two did both decide to marry and she was truly red pill, why boast about it?
Why? because she wanted the attention of manosphere readers, she wanted to boast about her marriage to the few female red pill readers out there, that she landed the ‘no marriage whale’.
she’s like a vampire groupy sucking the life from someone more interesting and with more status than her and she wanted to tame you. If you two really were ‘meant for each other’ than she should have been quite happy with a long term cohabiting relationship rather than wanting the marriage bomb. If you self detonated [i.e. you proposed marriage first] then she [as a red pill reader] should have declined out of principle. YOUR FUCKING PRINCIPLE.
And now you have nothing. not even credibility.
Mark,
I don’t begrudge you for getting married. Truthfully I don’t care what you do in your personal life. The fact is you got on a very very loud soapbox and called marrying men pussies and claimed marriage to be the greatest evil on earth. Then you went and got married. I do begrudge you for both of those things.
Call a spade a spade, and accept that it’s hypocritical. As I’ve said before, while I sympathize with your life predicament, the fact is you are a major factor in what your life has become. You chose your first wife, no one did that for you, and you shirked all responsibility for your role in your fate in your rants. I and Donlak both pointed this out at the time, but for the most part it fell on deaf ears. You won the hearts of the commentariat. You told many what they wanted to hear and believe.
Speaking of, why is so much hay being made over his wife being a single mom? If he married a nubile, virgin 18 year old who was God’s gift to erections, would it matter? Also, I don’t think people understand the meaning of the word cuckold. Unless his wife is actively sleeping with other men, I don’t think the term applies.
“Unless his wife is actively sleeping with other men, I don’t think the term applies.”
methinks there will be plenty of time left for that.
“Unless his wife is actively sleeping with other men, I don’t think the term applies.”
methinks there will be plenty of time left for that.
My comment should have read,
“The fact is you got on a very very loud soapbox and called marrying men pussies and claimed marriage to be the greatest evil on earth. Then you went and got married and don’t acknowledge the inherent hypocrisy of that. I do begrudge you for both of those things.”
One final thought: We all make mistakes. Minter is just a man, like any of us. No one should light him afire. Time to settle down and move on.
Also, go read these two posts if you haven’t already:
http://mattforney.com/2013/07/29/kill-yr-manosphere-idols/
http://donlak.wordpress.com/2013/07/29/whats-happening-with-the-manosphere/
Uhhhh, Mark ? Your son knows all about this. We discussed it. Did you notice he chose to not come visit you this summer?
Your daughter on the other hand has not yet found it. You want to share it with her?
Hang on Mark – I am done on the web – just starting at the justice center.
Have a great week.
I love that you’re posting here. Welcome!
Gloating that you’ve trained your son to be another pussy-boy slave to the feminine imperative? Probably brainwashed him into hating his father too, so you could get “one up”. Sick.
Let me clarify, you’re probably a terrible person, but since this couple have chosen to attention whore themselves around this corner of thie internet, it seems cosmic justice that you’ve found them here and are raining on their parade.
Yep, I am a terrible person
Seriously, you have the nerve to call a 15 yr old boy who was raised by his mother a pussy? I would ask what is wrong with you but the list is too long.
For the record, I paid for my son to fly to Austin to visit his father several times since he moved there 4 yrs ago. I didn’t have to say anything about this crap for him to opt out this summer, he made that decision several months ago before I even knew you freaks existed. When I did tell him what is going on he was furious and wanted to post to Mark. I think enough is enough.
Uhhhh, Mark ? Your son knows all about this. We discussed it. Did you notice he chose to not come visit you this summer?
Your daughter on the other hand has not yet found it. You want to share it with her?
Hang on Mark – I am done on the web – just starting at the justice center.
Have a great week.
Don’t let these stupid haters get you down. Most of them, especially on this site, are young keyboard jockeys just barely beginning to understand women and the world. Their lack of experience bleeds through in everything they write. They want to puff out their chest and pretend to be an uber alpha on the internet, because in real life they are still getting AMOGed everywhere they go.
This site really attracts the most immature and uninitiated members of the so-called manosphere.
There is nothing wrong with what you are doing, and I think most people who have read comments by both you and Kate over the years will be supportive of the both of you.
to clarify: if you are a young 30-something beta at the height of your earning potential, NEVER marry a single mother.
However, Mark’s case is clearly very different from that. Exceptions can be made.
Kate is probably fairly normal. However, I will say that I think she was looking for a man in the Manosphere. This does not in any way impugn her comments or expressed thoughts here, but I’ve always gotten the sense that she was here to hunt more than think.
Frankly, as long as you’re not advocating marriage as a wise course for young men (since you’re not really in a comparable position as young men), how you choose to pursue happiness is your business. I hope you find it.
“If you find me a hypocrite then that it your choice. You all are searching for some path.”
A single mother. You’re marrying a single mother. Single. Mother. All of the gods of all times(including the future) find you a hypocrite. Single mother.
Why not just be with her without marrying her? Hmmmmmmmm?
You are a beta chump mark. Go hang out with Elliot Rodger.
“And also, unlike almost all of you I never hid behind a pen name, And I have paid the price for my participation.”
The whole point of an online Manosphere is the freedom anonymity affords. Why on earth would you use your actual name of your own volition ?
worded that perfectly. especially the part about ‘fear’
i’m pretty sure the ‘top that motherfuckers’ line was a throwaway he said because deep inside he felt insecure that he had been a closet beta all along, just waiting for the first girl who was a fan to come and let himself revert to beta ways. it’s like the son who’s broken their dads porche and instead of mea culpa decides to half heartedly boast as he prepares for the welting of his life.
it would have been better for Mark if he just left quietly, rather than revealing himself as a hypocrite. He will now get eviscerated justly as he had not been true to his own words.
That’s a lesson to any closet beta’s in here. Either undergo those processes to really take the red pill, or if you do decide to go full retard, simply and quietly withdraw from the stage. We dont need your like here.
quintus i normally enjoy your writings but this is completely redundant. firstly, hypocrisy is not wrong in absolute terms. he posted angry comments on some manosphere blogs, big fucking deal. he didn’t start a revolution. most people discover the manosphere through a process of hypocrisy anyway (going from blue pill to red). hypocrisy is often necessary to improve oneself.
secondly, the red pill and its associated philosophies is only relevant to readers and contributors because it improves peoples lives. this is the only comparable measure for those who have taken it. if mark believes he is improving his life and you disagree, let him suffer. why care at all? your philosophy still holds.
no doubt minter is a fool for having barked so loudly before getting his tail stuck between his legs, but this post and your comment are neither brave nor necessary. if anything it is inane. all it has done has drawn attention to a member of an online community that has changed his mind. if the point is that he has misled his readers, i would say he has far less of an obligation to his readers than yourself or roosh, given that his platform is commentary.
also, ‘this is not a fucking bitch session’? there is an underlying sentiment coming across from the writers here that you are not prone to hypocrisy and are all honourable upstanding seducers. calm down.
having said that, i enjoy your writings and hope to see more of your posts soon. good luck to mark and kate as well.
Shab:
Thanks for you comment, which I read with interest. But I must respectfully dissent from some points you’ve made.
I hold no animus towards any one person.
The frustration expressed in my earlier comment, while inartfully expressed, was genuine. It was a frustration which comes from seeing in this little drama a metaphor for much of what ails modern America.
And this is the huge gap between words and deeds. As I look around, all I see is the older generation, the leadership generation, mouthing fine words but then doing something else.
And I expressed the same generational resentment against Paul Elam in my comment, some months ago, to Emmanuel Goldstein’s article “The Men’s Rights Movement is No Place For Men”. I feel like the older generation is very good at whipping us up into a frenzy and sending us off the battle, and then when the time comes to lead from the front, they are nowhere to be found.
The older generation has led us to this present predicament. All they do is talk a good game, and then run off to Florida to collect Social Security while Rome burns.
The gentleman who is the subject of this post held himself out as an authority. He held himself out as a senior statesman. And in the end, it was just as empty as all the other words of the older generation.
thanks for the gracious reply. i empathise with the frustration, especially given the regard many manosphere members held him in.
the question then is: is the frustration worth a public shaming such as this? to me the answer is no; especially since there seems to be some pretty screwed up history that has been resurfaced. i don’t think his comments are worth the ire of the entire manosphere, his 20 ex wives and the future resentment of his children. not to mention his fiancee being bitched about by people who should be out approaching. in my opinion, it should be seen as another disappointing mismatch of words and deeds, but nothing more.
the elders in the community i come from are notoriously disappointing – in fact they started a civil war. as such i have always been skeptical of ‘role models’. if anything, i use people only as inverse role models, if i cared about mark (which i don’t) i would just try to use my disappointment to match my words and deeds with even greater resolve.
caveat: i just finished the only modern biography of the younger cato, who is the only person i have read about whose words almost always matched his deeds. thought you might appreciate as a classicist. it is by rob goodman and jimmy soni, and is perfect for curing (temporarily) this particular frustration.
Shab:
Thanks for you comment, which I read with interest. But I must respectfully dissent from some points you’ve made.
I hold no animus towards any one person.
The frustration expressed in my earlier comment, while inartfully expressed, was genuine. It was a frustration which comes from seeing in this little drama a metaphor for much of what ails modern America.
And this is the huge gap between words and deeds. As I look around, all I see is the older generation, the leadership generation, mouthing fine words but then doing something else.
And I expressed the same generational resentment against Paul Elam in my comment, some months ago, to Emmanuel Goldstein’s article “The Men’s Rights Movement is No Place For Men”. I feel like the older generation is very good at whipping us up into a frenzy and sending us off the battle, and then when the time comes to lead from the front, they are nowhere to be found.
The older generation has led us to this present predicament. All they do is talk a good game, and then run off to Florida to collect Social Security while Rome burns.
The gentleman who is the subject of this post held himself out as an authority. He held himself out as a senior statesman. And in the end, it was just as empty as all the other words of the older generation.
Quintus wrote:
Call it what you will, but the post was neither “brave” nor strictly “necessary.” It appears more reactive and personally cathartic for Roosh, rather than truth-telling, which is his normal mode. And that’s the real disappointment in this l’affaire Minter.
A real-talking, experience driven, and brave pioneer of this community just had an uncharacteristic fit over a betrayal to which he contributed at least as much as the scapegoat. What mano-blogger beyond Roosh better exemplifies the practice of regarding men as they truly are — warts and all? The temptation is the opposite: the tendency to apotheosize mortals for their pretty speaking. It is easier to regard flesh-and-blood men as embodiments of an idea instead of the cracked earthen vessels they truly are.
This is not an esoteric war of ideals. Ideals and perfections are meant to inspire us, not rival themselves with reality. Our ideals have to be promoted by flawed men, Roosh included. Before this episode, Roosh seemed to be the leader closest to understanding this crucial principle, which has allowed him the kind of success and cooperation among men that eluded other pretenders and false exemplars. Now he is excommunicating earnest men to avoid owning up to his own credulity and culpability.
Who can follow you now, Roosh, given your mercurial temperament? Now we all think on our flaws, now we will be too paranoid to be honest, seeing that your judgment allows little room to be human.
Let’s concede that what Minter did was a mistake (though it would be profitable to have a real discussion about this). What is your process for dealing with the inevitable foibles and flaws of men going forward? Do you think this is the last time you will be duped or betrayed? You are setting yourself up for even more betrayal by behaving this way. You need to display magnanimity in judgment! You need to give confidence to those who follow you that they will not be victims of caprice. There must be a clear way to recover your good graces after succumbing to weakness.
Because, as Earl has already pointed out: you too will find yourself rejected by the men you look up to (or by your peers, your followers, or the irrational mob), and you will want some method of reconciliation — especially if it is over a simple misunderstanding and is not substantive. And even you can keep avoiding the consequence of precipitate condemnation — as you have done against other thirsty mobs; even if your feet of clay are never exposed; you will lead men better and with more loyalty when you demonstrate magnanimity over shortcomings, rather than the petulant wrath that too often follows a snap judgment.
Matt
we said the same thing, although you said it more eloquently. nice one.
Beautifully said, as always.
Isn’t it ironic that Matt, who was one of the few to call out Minter’s emoting rants for what they were, is now (correctly) one of his staunchest defenders? And all those who were so steadfast in their support of said irrational emoting have quickly turned on their false idol?
The manosphere: poster children for the phrase “A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing”.
On a related note – nobody, anywhere, needs anything more than Matthew King needs his own damn blog (or fullblown website). It would become the manosphere/alt-right/HBDsphere/what-have-you’s crown jewel. The measuring stick. The point of reference. The cream of the fucking crop.
Dude, what is holding you back? Do yourself justice. The manosphere throne is yours for the taking. There is literally no competition.
I think Mark Minter has already taught us that you just don’t take anyone too seriously. Don’t put people on pedestals, especially if you don’t know whether or not they practice what they preach. A bunch of rants that are found to be from a place of sexual frustration don’t cut it.
Maybe Matt does practice what he preaches but I’m not holding my breath on him taking the “throne” of the manosphere – People have to understand what he’s saying first.
Poor command of the english language is on you, kid.
I understand this reaction, but
1. Marrying a younger woman when you’re old seems kosher enough, maybe even recommended. (Assets are no longer being built, sex drive has calmed down, prospects are dwindling)
2. Therefore Minter’s advice to younger guys not to marry could still be consistent…though it seems a key part of “old battered dog Game” might be to have been divorced, since it signals experience and pre-selection, but there is no reason why a mean old crotchety “confirmed bachelor” couldn’t pull it off
Not one of you has ever changed or modified an opinion… even a strongly held one? He had an opinion that men should never marry American women… until he met an American woman that was worth marrying. I’m sure he still feels that marriage is high risk for men and the vast majority of American women are not worth the risk.
Thank you. And believe me, there was rigorous screening. All of the teachings he had acquired and all of the research he had done went into it. He looked at my age, my past, my hair color (blondes cheat less, apparently), my level of education (master’s degree- not that anyone is supposed to care about that), and location.
“blondes cheat less, apparently”
hang on now, this actually makes sense. i used to think women dyed their hair blonde because men generally found blondes more attractive, but it’s also because it makes men think they’re less likely to be cheating whores!
sheeeit, i learn something new every day.
Mrs. Minter #2 is a blonde…
Hang on a second. Don’t you have to fashion a man into an idol before he can fall off the pedestal? Who is really to blame here?
I, for one, have always found Minter’s prolix MGTOW bitterness unsustainable, and I called him out on it from the beginning. He had a platform here because his philosophy was congruent with the mission of the site, not because he was a perfect example in his personal life. Given his age, his bad experiences, and his victim status — why would you expect him to be?
This one is on you.
I have no idea why the kids around here hate you Matthew.
You seem to be one of the more saner voices of reason.
His writings look like a bunch of emotional ‘maditude’ now.
“No
matter how much Athol Kay you read, eventually all this back-stabbing
and offers from other men and women is going to take its toll. You will
get divorce raped if you are stupid enough to marry.”
“Even if that women sits home 29 nights a month, that 1 night that she
steps out to shake that ass, then she is looking for dick and the
motherfucker with game is the one that is going to be the one she
chooses.”
I’m sorry but it’d be poetic justice if some PUA stole his wife.
“Feminism is good for you. It is freeing you from the stupidity of being
some bitch’s husband. You get to live as a free man. It allows women to
stay
single so you can fuck them. Whatever negatives it has brought into
society is trivial compared to the benefit of you not marrying anymore.”
“Get
it through your head, Men are from mars; women are FUCKING IDIOTS.
Never marry. Duh. Plate Theory. Duh. Game. Duh. Pump them, dump them,
next them. Duh. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO WIN. Duh!!!!!”
All of this shit seems empty to me now.
nah, it’s actually mysoginist game. and its like fucking chickcracknip to women.
field tested and proven right here!
nah, it’s actually mysoginist game. and its like fucking chickcracknip to women.
field tested and proven right here!
I have seen it before with my best friend no less. I have known him forever
Harsh break up, then goes on a player bad boy binge. Not giving a fuck, talked the talk, banging mad females left and right etc. etc.
But the key to it all, was it was only brought forth as a result of something he really wanted to have in his life, and not having it anymore. He was in love, and would not admit being heart broken. What he was if temporarily was not who he truly is deep down. He is just not that kind of guy.
Reminds me of MM in a similar fashion.
I definitely see the POV of practice what you preach. It’s not a good look to be someone who is somewhat of an internet mentor of sorts, suddenly go against everything he has ever said. Granted people change, and I won’ t hold it against him if that is what makes him happy. I’m sure a lot of great bloggers who suddenly vanish or bow out do so for the same reason yet they don’t mention it or announce it. Which in my opinion is what he should have done. The same way that Bonecracker, and Ferdinand BArdamu have done before him.
You killed the legacy Mark. And that is too bad. But, whatever.
while i still wish him the best because no man deserves to go through a second divorce (or a first one, really), i wont bother reading any of his comments again, if he makes them.
there are certain rules in the manosphere that usually go unstated. one of them is that your word is everything. you might fly to a different city every week, wear custom suits, and fuck a hundred women per day, or maybe you havent left your moms basement in a year. from this side of the screen, its impossible to tell. we have to assume you must know what you are talking about unless your conduct reveals otherwise.
thats why marks actions are so troubling. he revealed that he wasnt who he said he was, in a corner of the web where that means everything. not only does that hurt his image, it hurts all of us. many of us are more anonymous than mark. from an outsiders perspective, incidents like this can make our entire belief system seem like a lie. heck, ive been floating around the manosphere 5 times as long as mark. im an insider, and things like this make me wonder how many people around here truly practice what they preach.
Mark has done all he says he has. Is that what this is about? He’s lived the high life; he’s lived the low life. He’s worn the suits and slept with eighty women. He’s been divorced and out of work. That is why he can teach you things. He has seen and been through it ALL. If you think he has been making up his life stories, that would be an incorrect belief.
I’ve seen pictures of this lady and she is very ugly. Why everyone says this girl even looks normal is a joke, she doesn’t look sub-human but she does not look human,something in between? maybe this?
What makes me angry the most is how this ugly bitch is parading it around like she is worth something. Disgusting.
I’m disgusted by the totally unnecessary and disrespectful personal attack on her. She really has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
In any case, she’s been promised the ultimate validation by a noteworthy member of the sphere. Being surprised or angry that any woman is proud of this fact suggests you don’t understand women.
Control your emotions and use your intellect, man.
No doubt man. What is behind the hate in some of these comments? So harsh.
Banned. Again, high school name calling is not the purpose of my post today.
Nothing makes me more sick than a man that leaves the pack for a women, When you come back (you will) we wont forgive you and what you’ve done to us. you betrayed us for her, disgusting.
Betrayed ‘us’? How?
If you agree with his previously-stated objections to marriage, then he betrayed himself.
His choice has no impact on my beliefs or my sex life.
He he. This comment sums up what I believe is the issue for a lot of guys.
Mark betrayed the He-Man-Woman-Haters-Club.
He he. What a joke.
Get a life. He’s just trying to be happy. I wish him all the best.
And your woman haters club is a farce.
” WE wont forgive you and what you’ve done to US. you betrayed US for her…”
You need to tone it down a notch fella. Are you writing this from a room full of recently trashed portraits you loving painted of his gravatar? Are you gently stroking a lock of his hair you stole from his pillow? Did Minter promise you his hand in marriage, only to elope with Kate? Seeing this as some sort of personal betrayal is both telling and disturbing. He’s just a random commenter on the Internet who made some good points.
*lovingly*
Mark Minter is a Judas to the manosphere. He deserves the collective, unrelenting shame, and ridicule, of manhood proper. He should serve only as a cautionary tale to the uninitiated.
He is not unlike manosphere contributors who acknowledge and amplify the innate differences between men and women, but who regress to bluepill stupidity when confronted with the innate differences between the biological categories of humankind.
Observe:
One curses marriage then impotently, and without shame, embraces its ugliness, the other curses a manifestation of liberalism (read: feminism) then ensconces himself in politically correct platitudes and flaccid bromides, numbing himself, and readers, to the ugly truth about race.
Minter fights marriage, then finds comfort in that same legally binding maelstrom where men’s nutsacks, wallets and souls perish.
Some manosphere contributors fight feminism, then slither into the fetid womb from which it was birthed(read: liberalism) to find safety from an all too inconvenient, fact laden reality, which, upon any honest survey, punctures every lie they find so pretty.
Both species of coward should be ridiculed and mocked without apology.
Slow down cowboy…I haven’t seen the manosphere get crucified because of his actions yet.
Until I see the photo of them in wedded matrimony, I’ll just take this as a pleasant fairy tale for us to bark about. For all we know they could be actually be double agents from Jezebel posing as people with the elaborate plot of trying to take down the place.
Mark who?
Hopefully none of Mark’s anger, hatred and bitterness does not rub off on the youngster.
The last thing this world needs another member of Mark’s generation fucking up another kid.
The end game of the manosphere is not going to be getting rid of marriage, it’s going to be returning the institution of marriage to it’s Marriage 1.0 roots.
What Mark Minter has been railing against all along has not been marriage as such, but the current feminist-driven Marriage 2.0…if he’s managed to find a redpilled wife who can go along with Marriage 1.0, more power to him (and to Kate)
Thank you. I would like to think we would have some valuable input to share in the future as other married couples around the sphere do now. The reason marriage has been thrown out was because it didn’t work. If it works, there is no reason to throw it out.
“I would like to think bla bla bla look at me I love the attention I’m trying to think of reasons to keep you all interested so I can keep getting the attention”
No, you don’t have anything to offer and nobody cares about you. People cared about Mark. He was a minor celebrity in a little corner of the internet and that doesn’t make you important or interesting. You planted your ass over in the chateau, posting sycophant messages and seem to think that this makes you ‘red pill’. Look at you marking you territory, pissing all over a half dozen internet forums, reveling in what you imagine to be your celebrity status, no different from any other woman in any other setting. Red pill for you is like being the most holy acting woman at a church, or the biggest slut in a club, it is just your way to establish social position. If you had an inkling of red pill, you would be aware of this and shut up.
Get off on this internet drama while you can. your moment is passing quickly.
I forgive him. It’s not such a big deal after all. I think problem is he had wrong reasons why he hated marriage back then. Emotional, or something like that.
My reasons are purely scientific, that’s why my belief is strong.
This is a good lesson for us all. Always judge a man by his actions, never his words. This man is nothing short of a mother fucker (pun intended) who is self cuckolding. The manosphere has its own Benedict Arnold after all.
Now if only the US court system would do the same…Marriage 2.0 would go down in flames.
Butthurt much. Did the guy take money off any of you? Get over it. Life goes on. Good luck to him.
We were always at war with Oceania.
“Brevity is the soul of wit.” To wit, well done. For the back of the class, proclamations of the Ministry of Truth are always 20/20. At least if our man Orwell meant “We’ve always been at war with Eastasia” since the MofT is Oceania. I only know cause I just looked it up. If it is intensionally modified, well done, as I can guess it is to be illustrative of expedient stances.
There are two things that separate men from women. Our balls and our word. He has neither
Wait, so he met her in manosphere blog comments?
The first guy to ever actually get the real-world appreciation of a female from arguing on the Internet, and it’s not one of the white-knight denialists… “Game”, set, match.
Alright, guys. Well, I’ve spoken my bit and still feel like this is something you might regret in the future, but I gotta go on with my day.
Guys, you had to see this one coming right? Any guy that spews that much vitriol must be a hater because he hadn’t found a good and proper woman that fit him. He was super heart broken and mad and justifiably so. If you didn’t see it coming, shame on you.
So…which guys from the manosphere will get an invitation to the wedding? I prefer beef over chicken or fish.
Well at least Roosh’s fascist true colors are coming out. Funny, this is a mens RIGHTS movement, and yet fascists like Roosh and Paul Elam and WF Price are intent on SUPPRESING MEN’s FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
The stench of hypocrisy is quite strong in you as well, Roosh.
This is a site about men’s lifestyle, not the MRM. If you don’t like it, leave.
fuck you you goddamn faggot. you don’t fucking tell me to leave, you stupid fuck. i’ll pound your fucking head in, faggot.,
Sure you will. I live in NZ it’s a long flight.
“Frank Henderson” has a comment email of a female. 0/10 troll
Attention all manospherians: Minter’s betrayal provides you the perfect opportunity to take stock of yourself.
When I was a teenager, fully engorged on the usual blue pill pabulum, I worked a shitty fast food job. I was three months away from going to college, and all I wanted to do was lay low, burn time, and save a little extra money before peeling out of the shitcan city I grew up in. During a lull in the business, my coworkers turned the conversation toward relationships.
“Hey Dack, you got a girlfriend?” “Nah, I’m about to move, I’m not looking to date right now.” A totally unexceptional exchange. Except it was overheard by a female coworker.
Despite having never even talked to this coworker besides exchanging hellos, it was at that moment that she marked me for destruction.
The next day, she flirted with me incessantly. I was taken aback – we had barely spoken before, and now a prom queen type was all over me? At work? It seemed too good to be true. And it was. At the end of the day she handed me a napkin with an elaborate drawing on it that said “Dack, will you be my boyfriend?”
I had no idea what to say. I was sincere in my beliefs that I shouldn’t be getting involved with a hometown girl mere months before I moved away. But I wavered from my beliefs. I said yes. In that split second, I rationalized that maybe it wouldn’t be so bad, maybe I should just give it a try and see where it goes.
It was a joke, of course, designed to humiliate me for breaking the blue pill orthodoxy that placed her at the top of the pedestal and me at the bottom as a perpetual supplicant. All it took was a casual mention of “I’m not looking for a girlfriend right now” to send her id into overdrive. All it did was make me the laughingstock of my workplace. At that point it became crystal clear to me that if you choose to break the mold, you had better be prepared to stick to your fucking guns when push comes to shove. Words are cheap.
Minter’s a fraud, of course. He’s 58, divorced, and despite his celebrated invective, he clearly still hasn’t learned what I learned at 18. I’d be disappointed if I hadn’t realized long ago that most “heroes” are just cowards with a good PR campaign. No disrespect to Kate – I don’t know her and I won’t make assumptions about her – but I would not be surprised if this was another female scheme to humiliate a man who vocally disagreed with the blue pill status quo. Don’t be surprised if that ring comes off her finger within a week, once the damage has already been done. Don’t think a woman would fake a relationship just to get in close to a man and destroy his credibility? Sorry, but experience tells me otherwise.
Good story. The evil of women can be mind blowing. and they say no men no wars ?
I am curious. What ever happened to this chick and you?
I was momentarily embarrassed, she was momentarily chewed out by our boss. I ignored her until I left for college and never gave her another thought. She probably stayed behind and squirted out a couple of kids like everyone else. As painful as it was at the time, I partially credit her for my red pill transformation (as well as a college girlfriend who was a Tesla-esque innovator of shit tests). That was my rock bottom, the moment where a blue pill guy has been embarrassed by a woman so badly that he has no choice but to reexamine everything he thought he knew about masculinity, contradictory female demands and expectations, and life in general. There was no manosphere back then, so I had to discover game concepts on my own. Had I not experienced it at a young age, I might have ended up like some of the gents in the manosphere who had their families and livelihoods wrecked before they understood the reality of how men and women are meant to interact. I’m grateful for that and I try to pay it forward by attacking blue pill fantasy wherever I find it.
Too harsh. Are we building a rival Cathedral patriarchy? If he is a fool, he will give us more ammunition than ever before of the same variety. If he is a trailblazer, he will give us a new ammuntion: real community, viable culture. This is really a good sign. The Manosphere is maturing. This is a good sign. The Manosphere is a distributed system, a free market, an ecology testing many avenues by which we may regain our political balls.
Sure, one can individually decide to de-friend the man, but keep it in perspective. You are not infallible. The only absolutes are laws of nature, and most principles are not laws of nature but context-sensitive and context-dependent truths. He may be better off taking the shoot even if he looses. Some of us actually prefer monogamy and intimacy and no need for a 3ply condom, if a viable woman could be found and kept in place. He will still need Game. His arguments are not invalid because of his hypocracy of action.
We can’t be petty, can’t follow emotional strawman arguments, and be the future. It’s his life. I wish him well, and eagerly await the updates, if you id wounded types haven’t scared him away. At worst he crossed the no-marriage picket line. He is a brother politically who wants to put women in their place, maybe more than you out of desperation and fear, but if he leans with his political value to patriarchy, he is in fact an allie. We need all hands on deck. The sting will subside, or the hoax will become known.
No need to feel personally betrayed when you were not. Can you stand on your principles without Mark Minter and let life decide? Will it give you cooties to know Mark agrees with some of your principles. Where the fuck is the outcome independence I keep hearing about? Just play your hand the best you can and remember evolution is perverted genius fucking us all in a cosmic drama for laughs and progress we don’t control. Philosophically, life means everything, and life means nothing, simultaneously. No need to cry for mortal greatness lost, it was always lost yet ripe for greatness.
Dear Benedict Minter and his blushing bride,
I’ve read your challenge about how I should ‘top that’. To no one’s surprise, it took me less than 24 hours. I woke up today as a free man with no woman having to go around the interwebz and defend my hypocrisy. I topped you. I didn’t fall for some woman who claims she took the Red Pill. Women don’t take the Red Pill. They just hold it under their tongues long enough to ensnare you and spit it out at the earliest convenience. I topped you. I’ve consistently put the collective bros before any ho! I topped you. I’ve not endured the most soul draining experience of my life and then volunteered to do it again. I topped you.
And Kate, please stop defending this situation. There’s nothing special or different about it. You two need to just go off into the sunset together and don’t come back. You’re not really wanted in these parts anymore.
Men of the manosphere, take this betrayal as an opportunity to take inventory of your own weakness. If you know what modern marriage is and decide to willingly enter it in this country because of some poosy, then you aren’t a man. You’re a slave to your dick. And all the authors of the GBFM laugh at you from their graves.
It is important to remember that principles must always come before personalities.
Truthfully, I tend to skim over writer’s accounts of their exploits and focus more on their philosophies and principles. That way I never become disillusioned when “heroes” fall.
Just because a man can’t live up to his own principles does not negate the principles themselves.
Keyboard alpha behavior is the single greatest threat among red-pill men. The only greater threat is the white-knighting pussery of the blue-pill man.
Infighting of this sort must certainly warm the black hearts of the jezebel set.
Nothing can warm their hearts. It’s like the reverse of the fires of Mount Doom, like the frost off an Ice Giant’s testicles.
I agree with QC. It is a harsh post by Roosh, but necessary to highlight how serious it is to walk other people down a path you yourself doubt/don’t believe in. Let us not wish him ill, rather good luck… He’s gonna need it.
“Married 4 times.” The odds are not in his favour. What is the Manosphere going to do if the predictable happens and Mark strikes out for the fifth time? Leave him to the dogs, or reaccept him (albeit at a lower level)?
The Manosphere should allow Mark back into the fold if it wants to be seen as a viable alternative to a society that ostracises those who break from orthodoxy. Mark has tarnished his name; he has fucked up his reputation all on his own. That should be punishment enough – especially for a narcissist. I am just a nobody in the Manosphere, but, I think, reacceptance with a good dressing down should be the course of action should the predictable happen.
Holy crap you people take the comments too seriously.
“I MGTOW hard bro until I meet a girl that likes me.” –Mark Minter
Most MGTOWs are a BJ away from changing their beliefs.
Most MGTOWs are a BJ away from changing their beliefs.
Kate, are you emotionally invested in Mark Minter the flesh and blood man, or in the Manosphere via the Mark Minter reputation?
Do not protest too much when a simple step off to the haters will do. This story will drop from the news cycle soon enough. I mean who gives a fuck about Bengazi when Mark and Kate are getting married. Quick, don’t send in the calvalry and get shrill testimony from a pompous hag whose looks we could scrutinize after buying pepto bizmo in bulk.
I don’t know about marriage, but becoming a father is like smoking cannabis and taking MDMA for the first time.
You feel very hiGH and you dance to the music. And nothing else matters.
And the people that you hate are still the people that you hate. But you come to understand that they are destroying themselves by deciding not to have children or by having them while their bodies are still weak and unhealthy.
So fuck all the social institutions and rites of passage (e.g. Marriage) that concentrate power in the hands of the government.
Let us make healthy children and educate them at home in the ways of anarchism. God gave us a soldier in each son and the resistance movements are here to stay.
Write bitter rants against marriage. DUH! Write more bitter rants against marriage. DUH! Marry the first single mom you meet on Skype. DUH!
While not calling into question the authenticity of his views, Donlak and I both called bullshit on his rants generally. Here’s my post which links to Donlak’s (where Minter ranted in the comments):
http://taoofdirt.wordpress.com/2012/10/09/on-marriage/
And here’s a direct link to Donlak’s post (click older comments to get to Mark’s rants):
http://donlak.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/get-married/
If it’s any consolation I am still banging ForeignBride every night, and I am only 56.
Now I can sleep tonight. My faith in humanity has been restored.
What are your thoughts on this Uncle Elmer? Be interested to know.
Getting married is a big risk. Mark vocalized the worst aspects of it. But alas, most men need the comforts of a woman. For men in our age group, chasing females is problematic with the low return on effort and poor selection. I am paying a big price for ForeignBride but she takes good care of me, cooks fine food every day, and generally follows traditional expectations of how a wife should act. She could take me to the cleaners easily though and that could turn on a dime if her hormones become unhinged.
Mark wrote his thoughts while absent a female companion. I get pretty irrascible when my wife is gone for even a few weeks. When it is years for some guys and they post comments, the bile really spews out. Contact with a good woman can make all that evaporate. Problem is the cycle can (and probably will) repeat itself.
None of you should be afraid to change your stance on something given new data and opportunities. It’s not like we are seeing a stampede back to feminism, as some might suggest. Mark changing his mind is not like proof that women can be combat soldiers because a former Navy SEAL got a sex-change operation.
Another thing is that commentary in the “manosphere” is deliberately over the top. It’s an inside joke with men and a reaction to decades of attempted thought control by feminists.
Many professional trolls strive to say something outrageous while pretending to be uninformed and earnest. Drives femrags nuts.
Thank god for a finally sane and wise couple of comments from an older man with wisdom.
Roosh will probably look back twenty years from now — married or not — on his reaction to the Minter Marriage, and want to crawl under the nearest chair with embarassment.
Roosh, I kept telling you to read Herodotus. The key passage which is relevant to this situation, and your attitude, is the story of Solon’s visit to King Croesus. Pity you didn’t read it before you went off on Minter:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/herodotus-creususandsolon.asp
Thanks UncleElmer, always appreciate your perspective.
I look forward to seeing how his “relationship” works out. This could be a tale equal to biblical tales such as adam and eve, abraham, and moses to educate future generations. This man should know the chances of failure and its consequences, so if it goes up in smoke and he finds himself exploited, poor, and/or in a jail cell, he has no one to blame but himself.
also the transformation of the comment section on roissy into cheezy congratulations and bitch flattery makes me want to shoot the computer screen. lol
I’m so confused by it. Technically, I assume, none of these people have met in real life. But the congratulations, internet high-fives and thank-yous seem so over the top attention whorish. With her commenting incessantly on this story to “defend” her man/his decisions…why? She’s not going to change anyone’s opinion, no matter how much she tries. Maybe they’ll start a new blog and everyone in the manosphere will read it and be jealous at how awesome their life is and those naysayers will understand the error of their ways…kind of like facebook but a much grander audience. High five gaiz!
I remember coming across Mark Minter’s writings on Rollo’s blog and thinking to myself, “wow this cat gets it…”. Unfortunately, like some others, he has turned out to be a hypocrite.
This is too bad and now his name is forever stained. However, the core ideas still stand. Marriage sucks for modern western men. A man in his right mind will avoid marriage and cohabiting with women in feminist ruled countries (most Western countries).
Tbh, seems like you boosted Mark up just to rip him down, Roosh.
One could get the impression that you care more about writing articles, just to produce content on your site, rather than your quality and the effect it could have on the manosphere once we start attacking each other 🙁
Roosh will be following Minter down the same path in the next 5-10 years. You can see the (warning) signs in his blog entries. He’ll wife up or he will go gay. Wait and see. Preferably the former and not the latter, lest we end up with an ebook called “My dead bat in Barry’s bunghole”, though of course we hope he chooses neither path.
There is no doubt he will wife up. The only question is will he face his readers like a man and admit it (nawalting like it’s going out of style) or will he slink away like a wounded weasel and just kind of disappear.
I would have respected Mark Minter’s decision more if he married a younger woman with no kids. That’s kind of what many of us from the traditionalist wing of the manosphere want. But marrying a 30-something single mom just makes me scratch my head.
This is a topic for another blog entry but I have trouble reconciling the manosphere’s emphasis on childless women with my personal stance on abortion. I am strongly opposed to abortion, so how can I cast a judgement against a woman with a child? Which is better, in the opinion of the manosphere, a 30-something single mom of 3 children or a 30-something single woman who’s had 3 abortions?
The first is better.
But you can still cast judgement on the first lady too. Very impulsive…did she have those kids for welfare, did she get divorced, did she not figure out that pregnancy is one of the side effects of sex? Judgement is not a bad thing…unless you think your judgement is always true and the best.
Murder on top of fornication is not a good combo…or path to be trodden down. That takes a lot of cold blood to murder your own kid…and a lifetime to get over that. In that case I wouldn’t touch her with my 10 foot pole.
A good point, although I think traditionalists in the manosphere would argue that a 30-something childless woman is past her fertile years and thus isn’t worth marrying. But I think in the case of abortion it’s legitimate for men to be uncomfortable with women who have had abortions. After all, if they’ve done it before, what would stop them from aborting your own progeny?
It would be interesting to come up with techniques on how to find out if a prospective mother of your future children has had abortions. I’m not sure how open women are on that subject.
That’s expecting way too much, he’s closer to 60 than to 40, and he’s not rich. You “traditionalists” aren’t being very realistic about how many prospects are available in a culture that rewards single moms, tells women to wait until they are past 30 to get married, shuns women who marry men more than a few years older, and of course is strongly hypergamous.
Also he’s had a kid, and probably doesn’t want any more (and risk going through another round of child support), so a woman who’s got that out of the way is actually the only choice.
Fair enough.
All this time…the cats around here still don’t get it.
Do you really think insults are going to affect me? Or that they are helping you feel better?
Keep insulting me about God, fellas.
So some guy who bans freedom of speech on his forum which is full of talks about how bad women are and how racism is such a devil. Then writes books on “game” yet talks about how looks, race, status, and location are more important is now calling people phonies?
Strong credibility Roosh.
You are the IRT
Iranian Race Troll
Epic gayness. See Don Cheadle in Traitor. #roflmfao
Wow, you guys are geniuses! I told you all 2 months ago (when I 1st stumbled upon your worship of mark) that he was a fraud. He lives in his sister’s spare bedroom as he is penniless. He has not worked in 5 years because amazingly, despite his charming personality, no one will hire him. (Note though, he is brilliant, just insane)
Mark lied and ranted to you all and you all believed him! We have been divorced for over 10 yrs and he has NEVER paid a dollar of child support. No where did he ever mention to you that I earned him dollar for dollar if not more and that I didn’t sit on my ass eating Bon bons while he worked to support me and the kids. This. Year it is fair to say I out earned him 200,000 to 1 (yes, literal, do the math)
Mark has 2 kids, 19 and 15 that he has blown off since the beginning. They were 3 and 7 when we divorced. He whines how they don’t appreciate him? WTF?! he never has been around for them. It is not th take care of him. He is the adult.
You all followed his rantings as if he were the messiah. (I’m a Jew so I don’t believe in the messiah). Maybe you should have done some fact checking.
This whole engagement is a joke. He met some moron who apparently sent Him pictures on the Internet. He is PENNILESS he does not own a working vehicle to get to even meet her in person. Maybe she has the money to support him. Hope so, because if she does marry him, he owns the IRS over 30k in back taxes and fees. And oh yeah, did I mention this would be his FOURTH marriage? I was 2, we were together for 17 yrs. he briefly married a columbian woman he met on the Internet which was later annulled.
For some reason I can not correct typos on my iPad on this post. Sorry about that as my IQ is significantly over 100.
I just can not believe you all believed him and that you even cared! Have a great week.
Hello Mrs. Minter, and welcome to the “manosphere.”
You’d be best off dialing it down a notch. You are confirming the worst impressions men have of women in these parts. There’s little doubt that your marriage, split, and divorce was a complicated thing, and your attempt to adjudicate it in the comboxes only exaggerates your disagreements in a game of one-upmanship.
“I just can not believe you all believed him and that you even cared!” We did not all believe him, not all cared. But your attempt to fashion him into an abject loser does nothing for your credibility. Not only is that what we would expect from a divorcee, it is the very issue we are trying to address on websites like these. This is a place where we suspend disbelief a bit and invite men to express the difficulties we have in common in the modern sexual marketplace. From there we make judgments about applicability to our own lives.
You could contribute greatly to the resolution of this situation. Piling on the frenzy is useless. What is it about Mark that once convinced you to have his children? What kind of life would you like the father of your children to have for the rest of his days? I know Kate from this community, and she would be your best friend if circumstances were different.
What happened between you and Mark was unfortunate. What do you gain from stomping all over the father of your child in public at this point?
Matt
Great comment.
Like she gives a shit what you keyboard jockeys think of her. The woman has a life, career, children, and a marriage that no doubt brings her far greater joy than your pathetic manosphere circle jerking brings to you. Some people have a life OFF line.
But she’s old, has an ugly spirit, and is sexually worthless.
But she’s old, has an ugly spirit, and is sexually worthless.
But she’s old, has an ugly spirit, and is sexually worthless.
Have you noticed that no one is questioning his decision to divorce you?
No one HERE is questioning it, because you are all a bunch of psychotic woman haters. In the real world we hold not one doubt as to why SHE would have wanted to divorce HIM. Are you so blinded by your personal agenda that you cannot see what a failure this man has been as a husband, father, and all around human being? Now you recognize him for the hypocritical phony that he is, yet you still hold out on your fantasy that he was injured party in his marriage. GROW up and WAKE up!
now that we’ve heard both sides of the story…
where’s the truth?
now that we’ve heard both sides of the story…
where’s the truth?
Somewhere in the middle.
If you are making $200,000 then you should easily be able to support two kids. It’s not like you have been left homeless. Also, Mark isn’t your husband anymore, therefore he can marry another woman if he wishes to. In fact, I think divorced men should make it a priority to find someone else.
Bragging about being a jew and about making over $200k, bragging in another post about marrying a Beta six years younger than her. Behaving like a high school drama queen as if she relishes trying to ruin an ex. That’s what deeply unhappy people do.
Fellas either this is the troll of the year or this horrid ball-busting harpie is enough to make any man MGTOW like Minter did.
Bragging about being a jew and about making over $200k, bragging in another post about marrying a Beta six years younger than her. Behaving like a high school drama queen as if she relishes trying to ruin an ex. That’s what deeply unhappy people do.
Fellas either this is the troll of the year or this horrid ball-busting harpie is enough to make any man MGTOW like Minter did.
Bragging about being a jew and about making over $200k, bragging in another post about marrying a Beta six years younger than her. Behaving like a high school drama queen as if she relishes trying to ruin an ex. That’s what deeply unhappy people do.
Fellas either this is the troll of the year or this horrid ball-busting harpie is enough to make any man MGTOW like Minter did.
Most of you guys don’t count as anything more than adolescents.
If the manosphere is just about banging chicks ‘dude’ then it’s nothing more than the male version of the female problem.
And since women are largely a reflection of the men around them, all the PUAs and men that can’t handle an LTR are nothing more than mommies boys hiding from their own insecurities.
Roosh, who has wandered the world like a drifter, who proclaims he’s free because he has no commitments…
the guy sleeping in a cardboard box has no commitments either.
Women are a challenge, they always have been, always will be.
Sadly there’s few real men left any more, I don’t mean a guy whose nearly 40 that can pick up a chick at a disco, I mean one who can handle her after he’s taken the condom off on the first night.
Pathetic.
lol @ those last 2 lines. The real “boy” here’s you – all mad because you lived with a woman for a few years who had a child by you and it DIDN’T WORK OUT. haha
actually Love Battery, you are wrong…
imagine trying to game someone, that has known you for years, has decided to actively shun you and literally hates your guts, (partly due to your own mistakes and partly because she’s activated turbo bitch mode), who mocks you in front of your friends, and who literally goes out of her way to hurt you and make you feel like crap.
it was a hell of a lot more interesting, rewarding and challenging than any of your teeny weeanie hookups…….
It was real game and 7 years in, I’m more of a man than I would have been if I’d had a disco lay every night of those 7 years.
the thing is – who gives a shit? if you were blue pill before becoming red pill, then you are a hypocrite. and when you choose to take the red pill, you do so because it makes more sense to you. if it makes more sense for minter, that’s the only relevant metric. i don’t really see it making sense, but whatever.
sad to see some of my favourite writers here spinning bullshit about honour and hypocrisy. this is petty crap. now ex wife appears to be involved. maybe kids will be involved. all because you guys are butthurt about an internet presence. but at least you have pointed out the dishonour of this internet presence. oh shame!
roissy’s reaction made much more sense: raise an inquisitive eyebrow, but toast to their luck nonetheless. minter’s predicament is obviously foolish, but this reaction is equally so.
the red pill is a philosophy, not a religion. good luck to the couple
I bet he failed The Ultimate Shit Test
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/11/10/the-ultimate-shit-test-marriage/
“Like most on the Internet, he was a paper alpha.”
“Just as there aren’t many atheists in fox holes, there aren’t many MGTOW when hot snatch is in their face.”
Quoted for truth! Too many phonies laying around.
Am I the only one loving this drama?? I LOVE when heroes fall. So many people built this dude up into something he never was and then the fantasy crumbled. Hilarious.
It should have been expected too. When in the history of anything has the person standing in most staunch opposition to something not been secretly guilty of it?
The best part is, they are doomed for failure. Minter’s throngs of adoring fans were what gave him value and that all disappeared. Now his new bride to be is on the message boards trying to save his last bits of dignity and fame (and respect she had for him). Soooooo pathetic (and hillarious!!!).
All that hatred wasn’t sustainable. Remember that whenever one of your male friends complains about women. Most MGTOW’s are a good BJ away from not being MGTOW anymore.
All that hatred wasn’t sustainable. Remember that whenever one of your male friends complains about women. Most MGTOW’s are a good BJ away from not being MGTOW anymore.
I’d say from the 250+ comments…no.
I’d say from the 250+ comments…no.
Leftist ignoramus. The equivalent of “You don’t like gay people because you’re secretly gay.” A tiresome repetition of a tenet of Alinskyite faith (which he didn’t even believe in). All you do is expose how shallow is your ability to analyze, how readily and unconsciously you puppet the conclusions of other men.
Haha, trying to left-shame me? Not a liberal here, son. But go on and keep defending your fallen idol.
Roosh, if you are clever, you’ll pull out some of his harsher writings, and say “See boys? Thinking, believing, and behaving in such a way that women are nothing more than a plaything gets you pussy.”
(Hell, some of the incels might just be happy to get some 34 year old with a kid.)
Roosh, if you are clever, you’ll pull out some of his harsher writings, and say “See boys? Thinking, believing, and behaving in such a way that women are nothing more than a plaything gets you pussy.”
(Hell, some of the incels might just be happy to get some 34 year old with a kid.)
“Most of the angry men in this corner of the internet are one blowjob away from being a white knight.”
That insightful observation on a long forgotten blog stuck with me for years. The weak will always be weak, the strong are always alone.
“Most of the angry men in this corner of the internet are one blowjob away from being a white knight.”
That insightful observation on a long forgotten blog stuck with me for years. The weak will always be weak, the strong are always alone.
> men who get divorce raped were white knights in a previous life
As someone who was not divorce raped, I agree 🙂
> men who get divorce raped were white knights in a previous life
As someone who was not divorce raped, I agree 🙂
Next up: Barbarossaaaa
The real hypocrites are the people who bitch and moan about feminism, yet spend their lives training to be a dancing monkey for every drunken party whore that stumbles into a night club.
This is what extremism will get you. When you preach an absolute, it’s liable to bite you in the ass, big time. Alas, you can only “blame the system” so much before you have to take a long look in the mirror. Expensive divorce? Sucks. Ranting about it ad nauseum? At some point you have to put your hand to the plow and not look back.
I’ve now read a bunch of the man’s comments, before and after, and the one thing they have in common is solipsism. The approach is always “this is what happened to me, therefore it’s universal.” Incidentally, a lot of men turn 58 without learning jack shit. It is evidence of nothing.
As for the new bride, I don’t get it. If she’s red pill, why is the legal contract necessary?
Damn that guy is a total puss! It’s easy to be MGTOW but when a decent woman is throwing themselves at you things change.
A lot of MGTOWs just use that as a crutch as to why they can’t get laid – but then a cupcake gives him head the right way and it’s a change of heart. Most guys around us are straight bitches like that brah.
A lot of MGTOWs just use that as a crutch as to why they can’t get laid – but then a cupcake gives him head the right way and it’s a change of heart. Most guys around us are straight bitches like that brah.
I feel betrayed. What I’ve feared for a while now has been proven true: we’ve all been following the advice of bitter losers.
Learn from this and never put anyone in the ‘manosphere’ on a pedestal. We all should’ve known that Minter was saying shit out of hate and that it wasn’t gonna last. You can’t sustain that type of hate ’til the end.
Of course! I thought it was pretty transparent with Minter. I even called him out on it last year. A lot of guys in the manosphere are bitter losers, some aren’t. It’s not very hard to tell. Take everything you read here with a grain of salt.
looooooool
I knew a guy at work. He got divorce-raped. He publicly proclaimed in the office that he would _*NEVER*_ marry again. I felt sorry for him. He was in mid-40s, nice guy, at times lacking self-composure and being overly sucked into things such as twitter (very annoying).
I walked up to him in the bathroom and started talking to him. I sympathized with him and the shit that he was going through (and it sounded like his wife was a serious bitch and he was pretty decent). That’s when he told me that he was a sucker for marriage, since this is his second. His first ended, but he didn’t owe her neither alimony nor child support (she had a job, so he lost only $700 to pay the lawyer).
At this point, I would have thought he figured he got lucky and learned his lesson. No, the dumbass did it again. I didn’t probe for details, but I figure that she cheated on him. Now, he owes her alimony… yeah…
He was dating a fat chick that had two kids (yay single moms) and some other girl, but wisely, after all that misery, decided that wifing either one up would be a disaster.
Another words, he didn’t learn his lesson until he was very fucked over.
I cut back on how much we talked after that.
Suckers tend to stay suckers for life. Drop in a bit of truth from time to time and if they’re not receptive, fuck ’em. They’re making their bed so they can lay on it later.
Suckers tend to stay suckers for life. Drop in a bit of truth from time to time and if they’re not receptive, fuck ’em. They’re making their bed so they can lay on it later.
Hey, fellas! Can a fat old feminist interest any of you manosphereans in a friendly wager? Cuz I am ready to put real money on the likelihood that this marriage will NEVER take place.
It’s funny how people feel betrayed by Mark changing strategies. As if it was a team sport of men versus the women, and he’s joined the other side.
It was never a team sport. Mark didn’t betray you. He owed you nothing.
That anyone believed his extremist anti-intimacy rants was only testimony to their own identification with failure as a philosophy.
Now Mark will have to actually work on LTR skills, instead of just blaming women for his LTR inadequacy. Hopefully he’ll put as much effort into building those skills as he had into his writing.
And for the He-Man-Woman-Haters-Club members, grow up. It is natural human nature to want to bond with a woman. It happens to nearly all of us. We want that. Some of us actually get that, and are happier for it. Yes, it’s not easy, and takes more than just skill – it takes an entire architecture of maintaining 3 points of value over your woman long term, but it’s something a guy can do.
Anyway, you guys who feel betrayed have your allegiences all fucked up. Best wishes to the both of you. Your allegience should be to personal happiness, not to us and them team.
Quoting Supramax:
I agree and just don’t understand those who are put off by the guy not
sticking to his principles. What the fuck good are principles if they
get in the way of improving your happiness and station in life and the
happiness of those around you?
And those who feel betrayed, as if he was on your team and now joined
the other side. What’s up with that? Is it the men versus the women?
Is that what’s going on?
Seriously, there is some fucked up sense of allegiences and principles
gripping the manosphere. It is NOT men versus women. It’s each man for
himself. And principles be damned.
Just be happy, the best you can.
That’s all we are doing here.
He probably made a good move. Good on him. He didn’t betray you, and his principles were not worth holding on to.
The greater lengths you go to explain your situation to others, the less sure you are of your own decisions.
Aren’t all PUA’s closet Homosexuals, pedophiles, Sociopathic, Autistic, ugly, out of shape, too bald, too hairy, tiny penis, tiny everything…?
It’s inevitable that the manosphere will have casualties of war along the way. MM is just one of them.
Being an older man myself and having gotten out of a 25yr marriage and 32 yr relationship, I know the temptations to “run back to mama,” so to speak.
However, the more I bang away at the Femisphere (correct term?), the more I realize that I can never be reinserted back into the Matrix. Not only are women a huge issue, but many things in our culture, economy and body politic are so out of wack that they are beyond repair.
Maybe Mark is the Cipher of our sphere of influence. He’s gone back for the paltry rewards and false sense of security that the marriage matrix brings. It’s not real, it’s not deep, and it’s not lasting. He know it, but he’s old, tired, and has given up. He’d rather enjoy the illusion of love and relationship again than continue to good fight.
More power to MM. I just hope his #2 doesn’t shit on him the way #1 pissed all over him–pun intended.
Great comparison of Minter to Cypher from The Matrix.
“You know, I know this steak doesn’t exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize? [Takes a bite of steak]. Ignorance is bliss.”
As Omar once said “Every man’s got to have a code.”
ahh…leave’im alone, already!
oh grow up you guys, like you`ve never encountered a hypocrite before. we are all hypocrites if the situation calls for it. i`ll never understand the bile and the hatred. boohoo fcuking hoo, my idol is a phony. well maybe now you`ll learn to grow up and idolise NOONE. sure you may like and aprove of his ideas, but a man is never to be worshiped, cause we`re all selfish individuals who`ll fuck anyone over for our perceived happiness. deal with it, that`s how the world works.
now, i won`t begin to suggest i comprehend his actions. as a man pushing towards 30, i`ll never know what a guy pushing 60 feels. maybe he became aware of his mortality and the breakdown of his body, and wanted somebody to be there for him when he croaks. maybe he realised that a man his age can`t possibly chase tail around anymore, since nobody would want a “creepy” old guy – so he chose whatever was available to him – roadkill.
naturally this doesn`t change the fact that that same woman will probably leave his ass within a year or two and he`ll be right back to square one, minus the respect from his brethren. it is the path he chose and even though you and me and most everyone around here agrees it`s a betrayal and a stupid fucking thing to do, mark has a right to fuck up his life just like any other poor sod who marries in this day and age. get it? it`s his life, it`s his life to fuck up.
hell, you wanna be a better man? walk the walk that mark never could. in the meantime, stop bitching like those annoying femicunts we hate. just remember that game gets old(see roosh`s case), you won`t always have the energy/means to be chasing pussy like you have now, and you can`t empathise with a guy turning 60 who`s realising his time on this planet may be up pretty goddamn soon.
in closing, seriously guys: you are free to hate the man, but at least remember his ideas. hypocrite or not, his voice helped many of you when you needed it. peace out.
you know what? upon re-reading, that roadkill remark wasn`t cool. got caught up in the heat of the moment. let her prove her worth like everybody else.
Roosh please see my response to Uncle Elmer somewhere down below
…And I was suddenly reminded of a family of musicians I knew from my home town, I knew them for many years until the children were all adults. Mother had 3 kids by 3 different men, married and stayed with father of youngest kid. Final daddy (who raised this brood) was a fine, stable fellow, mother was reasonably together in the head, all the young adult offspring were well adjusted and doing well, and continue to do well many more years later.
Of course I’m not recommending becoming a stepdaddy. But it sometimes works out just fine in the real world, and that’s nothing more than a simple empirical observation. Make of it what you will; I have no opinion one way or the other.
The only problem I have is the “top that motherfuckers” line. It betrays shame and cowardice.
It would have been far far better if he gave a sheepish grin and said “yeah, you’re right roosh. What can I say? At heart Im a sucker.”
I think that would have endeared him to the rest of us, and at the same time allowed him to continue speaking his mind. But this kind of disrespect, its childish, shows he cant be taken seriously.
“If you find me a hypocrite then that it your choice. You all are searching for some path.”
A single mother. You’re marrying a single mother. Single. Mother. All
of the gods of all times(including the future) find you a hypocrite.
Single mother.
Why not just be with her without marrying her? Hmmmmmmmm? The
nonsense she sells you about setting a good example to her daughter(what
good example?!) is about .000001% as compelling an argument for
marriage as are your arguments against marriage.
This so called red-pill chick you’re marrying talked openly on
heart+artist+french about her divorce. She puts 100% of the blame on the
guy. She talked about herself like she’s a pure victim. Her main
quibble? She wanted to quit working entirely and he had a problem with
being her slave and eventually paying her alimony for life. LOL. She’ll
talk trash about you, one day. Soon.
When I read this, there was a moment of terror as I thought that some woman may con me into marriage after all. Eeek!!! Then I thought about it for awhile and remembered that usually when someone is as “loud” as this guy was in opposition to something, they’re usually trying to protect themselves from their most secret desires by convincing themselves (and anyone near to them) that their deepest desire is “unholy”. Kind of like those pastors that bash homosexuals, and later it’s discovered that they are homosexuals. By externalizing the conflict, they wish to gain control over their desires. Ironically, the internal battle is the only battle that counts towards freedom. What’s worse is that his new wife is probably “mirroring” him, the first phase of a narcissistic relationship. Women will always be beautiful to men because of our sexual impulses. It’s best to understand these impulses and how they influence our behaviour. Women (and castrated men) will always seek to shore-up their will by “charming” or otherwise dominating the will of others. It’s best to understand these processes so as to not lose one’s self.
These are my thoughts and feelings but perhaps they are yours as well. Men here and perhaps elsewhere, are trying to rid themselves of the influence of the female mind. Women always and everywhere are trying to get men to share their mental state (they call this “emotional intimacy” but this is incorrect). Minter’s discretion represents an intrusion of sorts; Minter’s discretion represents a loss of ground. Minter out of his own weakness, has made room in his mind and body for the feminine sacrificing (repressing) his own feelings, expressions, movements etc., in the process. To those of us that are in the process or have managed to wrench free and remove the parasitic plants and weeds that have taken up residence in our soil, nothing could be more terrifying than to have our garden play host to yet another parasitic plant. Marriage seems unbearable, yes because of divorce etc., but also because we all know secretly that a woman’s love for anything other than herself is weakness (even as she never truly loves herself), and that weakness will eventually result in the repression of your deepest thoughts and desires, the very things that give our life meaning.
I see the manosphere as, among other things, an attempt for men to rediscover and reclaim their deepest thoughts and feelings after having been encouraged for centuries to share their minds and bodies with women and authority: after having been encouraged for centuries to find meaning in a woman or a leader. Minter became an ideal/leader that we identified with. His failure is our failure: or makes possible our failure. But their is a positive side to all of this. Minter’s failure exposes the flaw in identifying with our ideals. Minter’s failure exposes the flaw of leaving uncut the umbilical cord that ties us to our fellow man. Hell is other people and unless the umbilical cord is cut, how can one be born again?
I’m new here, but in my opinion you guys should have seen it coming. Why? Because his writing was too spiteful. He was nothing more than a bitter man. I have this perception whenever I read angry bitter comments in the manosphere. Men who really have committed to their choices have a relaxed attitude. They smile at enemies. I had written this comment right after having read your quote from Minter and then read about this commenter nailing it down too:
“Minter wrote well because he wrote out of bitterness and anger. His writing did not reflect deeply held philosophical beliefs. He wrote to process his anger.”
She had a galore of options? At 34, with a child? Only in his eyes. The eyes of a man without options. I remember my mail exchanges with single mothers who lamented how men with options eschewed them.
A 58 years old man with a woman 25 years old his junior… I understand that he couldn’t believe his luck. How could we top that? No problem, mate: either work on your game or move to a country that is less ageist than the USA and – provided that you are worth something – you’ll have women 25 years old your junior throwing themselves at you. Next.
Here is another wise commenter:
“Let that be a lesson to careless fools.”
Let’s really let that be a lesson to us and let’s not allow the emotional outbursts of some manosphere writers fool us again.
Peace.
It’s his life. Why bother caring about what he does with it? Plus,
it’s idiotic, and can be rather dangerous, to look up to anyone. There
is nothing special about you, me, or anyone else.
Since women aren’t to be put on pedestals, why put some man up there? No one rates being elevated like that.
Hi Roosh,
good article. I too am one that can not abide hypocrisy and cowardice. I do not want such in my life. I even went to the extend of disowning my own cowardly father. I am in the process of changing my name back to the name of my german ancestors, Boehm, so that I do not have to live with “Nolan” any more. I do not want that mans name associated with me.
When a few more men do what I have done? Tell our fathers we are disgusted in their cowardice and weakness and hypocrisy? They might take a little more notice.
As I have talked to younger men about what I have done? How I despise such hypocrisy and cowardice? The young men are starting to “get” just how badly the older generations have betrayed them and how weak the older generations are.
I am 49…and the men I thought were my peers are very weak men in the main in the west…..and the men my fathers age? 75. Men whose fathers generations fought WW II so their children might have a better life? They are the worlds most disgusting cowards.
More needs to be said about the cowardice, weakness, and hypocrisy of my generation and my fathers generation. And it needs to be said by the few who are from those generations who have not folded like deck chairs on the titanic.
‘Sup, unlettered drunk geezer.
You went to the extend(z) of being in the process of changing your name?
Your Titanic metaphor is a train wreck.
There are no women in your post or your life. Detox first, then fix that.
well if there is one thing we’ve learned its that all you bitch niggas flips the instant something smells like cunt.
Men born before 1960 (basically 55-years-old and older) have been brain washed to believe that their life is fulfilled only if they are married. They can rail against marriage but ultimately they get married. I have seen this numerous times; successful men who remarry, only to regret it. Really, if you have the money, why would you get married and raise another man’s child or have a second family. But, it happens to successful men in the over 55-years-of-age group over and over again.
The desire to remarry or be married is buried in an older gentleman’s social DNA in a way that younger men can’t understand. The social pressure against men in this age range in the U.S. to marry and raise another man’s progeny is strong. Many men in the over 55 group feel a like a pariah if they don’t have a wife by their side.
one of the sources quoted above wrote:
“Who is that morbidly obese radio host that so many guys look up to? The fat fuck can’t control his eating and has been married 4 times. Yet guys look up to him because he TALKS a good game…”
sounds like leykis. i like him, but good point nevertheless.
Hi I am fat, ugly faced and nasty feminist. I have 4 children, all have different dads. So I guess I can find a hubby among you guys, since you are so in love with single moms? And P.S: I don’t work.
I created an alter-ego to examine if I’ll ever be capable of monogamy again. Acknowledging your own “red pill” behavior or whatever you want to call it puts you on a path of nihilism which I’ve fully explored. How would I go back even if I wanted to? The truth is intoxicating, the falsities of “real” dating are designed to numb and placate
I despise people like this. Its just engrained into me. Sure nobody is a
saint, least of all me, but throughout my life I’ve known so many
people who should have known better, who say one thing and then do the
complete opposite, and it doesn’t matter if its a larger issue like this
or a much smaller one, it still shows that a person is essentially
lacking a spine. Next they’ll get into a relationship and sell out to
the whims of their girlfriend, even if it means disrespectfully
discarding interests or hobbies that you took part in with them as part
of becoming friends. There’s a part of me inside that is just absolutely
revolted by actions like this.
Minter looks like he used to fuck niggas up.
Just goes to show how deep the social programming goes. The abused go back to the abuser over and over because that’s all they know, it’s what they think is normal. The older a guy is, the harder it is to reset his own software.
I read as many of these older articles that I can. By the time I comment, no one else is reading. Such is the modern day attention span, even on an above average site like ROK. As for Minter, yes he could not live up to his credo. So what? How many of us keyboard warriors can? That is why even though none of you know me I try to avoid the bullshit bravado as much as possible. Minter’s pre marriage posts speak of his bitterness, the result of being bitch slapped literally and figuratively many times I suspect. Now he’s 58. I have no idea what he looks like or what his 34 year old paramour looks like but I’m sure he had years of pent up sexual desire. You expected him to be a gnostic aesthete type of guy and continue the misery of his existence? I sure don’t. Some of you who claim to be so worldly and with your super high notch counts want to vilify this man who found his way out of the sexual desert he was in. Even though, as in all relationships these days, the chances it will last are less than half. So shame on Minter for his tough talk that he couldn’t back up . Even more shame on you for criticizing him for succeeding in bedding a woman 24 years his junior. This is one year later. I wonder if they are still together.