The Epidemic Of Flaking

As men take the red pill, and begin to learn game, most go through several road bumps on their path from basement-dwelling nerd to panty-moistening Lothario.  It is certainly not an overnight process to become one.

From my own experience, and reading the stories of others, most men have issues even talking to girls – whether it be day game or night game.  There is a period when one must endure mostly, if not outright, rejection.  If the man survives this time, he eventually moves into the realm of having more substantial conversations when talking to women.  While maybe those conversations go somewhere, most are dead leads.

Eventually, the man starts to generate real leads and gets legitimate phone numbers.  Some of the women text back, some don’t.  However, if a man can persevere through learning to approach, leading a conversation, and number closing, he will eventually start to get some good leads with girls that are willing to go on a date with him.  Then, the next bump in the road hits.

The flake.


The flake is simply another tool in a woman’s arsenal to get the validation she craves from men without having to give anything in return.  Much like American courtship in general, the phrase “give and take” simply does not apply – with the female taking 100% of the benefits and giving 0% of them in return to the male suitor.

Recently I wrote an article on my personal blog about how a woman’s own sexual marketplace value is directly dictated by her ability to get a man.

In the animal kingdom that we live in, status is king.  The value of the man she obtains directly impacts the female, and dictates her own worth in society.  Naturally, everyone wants to be at the top of the hierarchy, looking down upon everyone else.  Females are naturally incredibly competitive creatures, especially amongst themselves. They want to show off, stab each other in the back for personal gain, and be more valuable to male’s than all of their friends.  This is exactly why you see the hot chicks with ugly friends.

A woman’s sexual value will directly impact her self esteem.  When a woman flakes, she was essentially using the man as a way to prop up her value, or at least confirm it to her inner self.  If you think about it, it actually makes good sense.  A woman is able to keep her value, therefore, her self esteem stays high.  It is a vicious cycle in which thirsty men are feeding into it.  This creates an epidemic – a disease spreading far and wide with no real cure.

Actually though, there is a cure.  And it’s quite simple.

Men, play the field and flake back.


To combat flaking, you simply cannot care.  While you might not get your notch, perhaps the next guy to come across a girl will not have to deal with her flaking on him.  Flaking is so bad, that it’s not uncommon for seasoned players to set up 2-3 dates within a few hours of each other, so that if one falls through, you have someone to fall back on.  This promotes outcome independence, which is catnip for a woman.

When I was dating consistently, if I planned a date for a Saturday, I would set up no less than two dates.  I noticed that the flakes became less, simply because when I was making these plans, I came across as not giving a shit – because I didn’t.  Why would I, knowing that I would be seeing a minimum of two different girls that day?  It never occurred to them to flake on me because they could sense I wouldn’t care.  Therefore, the entire self-esteem boost I talked about earlier is essentially taken away from them.  Without “getting” 100% of the benefits (my attention), the desire to flake dropped significantly.

Granted, there are many other ways to combat flaking – if you poke around sites like this and the manosphere in general, you will find enough content written on flakes to make your eyes bleed.  However, the key to remember is this: whoever cares less in a relationship has all the power.

The lesson is, then, to care less than she does.  Setting up multiple dates is an easy way to accomplish just that.  Plus, if you get laid on the first date and reek of sex on the second, it is completely in your advantage. The second girl will smell another woman on you, and she will be putty in your hands, waiting to spread her legs for you. Yup, welcome to American dating.

Read More: Do Girls Flake Because Your Value Is Too Low?

254 thoughts on “The Epidemic Of Flaking”

  1. I wish that guy I try to shake off since March would start not giving a damn. Or at least find someone else to harass. How is “no, sorry, thanks, I am not interested in you” not enough? He keeps calling. He’s a nuisance!

    1. And then Ellida hits the wall and she becomes the very same nisance to Men with options.The circle of life.

        1. Responding ‘at’ not ‘to’.Nobody gives a fuck about her opinion,but just wanted to point out that what goes around comes around,

    2. I blame modern Hollywood movies with bullshit messages like “you gotta fight for her!”

  2. My favorite flake combat is to leave the moment a woman is late. I demand punctuality, and will not ‘wait’ on a date.
    Message them later with ‘oops, looks like I missed our date.” No excuse.
    If they say ‘I missed it too’ it’s a great time to drop a ‘welp, looks like our schedules are incompatible. good luck.”
    About three quarters of the time it leads to a date, with her paying. And being on time.
    (Then again, haven’t played the field since the 90’s… things may be different now)

    1. They are very different. Flaking is out of control now, and not just with 20 something women either.

      1. not texting, messaging.
        Not to go into too many details, but uhh…the group I was into in the late 90’s spent way way more time on ICQ, telnet, and IRC than was probably healthy.
        My standards were considerably lower immediately post-divorce than they are today.

  3. This is good. Ironically enough this happened to me last night and that is the exact thought I had. Who cares? My time is valuable. If she does not see that then oh well. I barely even ask for numbers anymore, I just say meet me here at “x” time. I go there, enjoy myself, and it does not matter if she does or does not show up.

    1. I used to care about flaking a few years ago. No my thought process is, “If this girl thinks she is better than me then she is not worth any of my time.” Now I am completely indifferent when a flaking happens. I still collect numbers because I always set dates a couple blocks from my residence so I don’t have to leave until I get the “you here?” text.

  4. Fuck I hate this. I’m sorry for the dudes who still live in the West especially if they’re not naturally physical alphas. Fuck, I dislike religious people but god I wish Christ was real.

      1. A second flood. Only this time with sharks having laser beams on their heads for good measure.

      2. He’d offer repentance and salvation from sin.
        Which most women would ignore, choosing to fuck alpha men instead, and most men would ignore, choosing to worship and venerate pussy instead.
        Hey, that sounds a lot like reality, doesn’t it?

  5. Did anyone see the Jezebel article on Janes Franco? man this guy got flaked the the fucking maximum. Long story short. This girl follows him on Instagram. He asks if she wants to meet up on text and sends a photo as proof. He asks if she has a bf. she says not for you I don’t. Then boom the kicker she says she is 17 after leading him on. Published the entire conversation and makes him out as a pedophile. The girl in the text says the moment I’m 18 I’m yours. Wtf that’s psychotic abuse on a whole new level.and finally now The girl (who looks) 21 now has 70k followers overnight. Famous all to put herself over other girls. Who tell her how lucky she was but how he’s such a creep. That’s not a paradox I can’t solve.

    1. Lucy Clode is her name and check it out on Instagram. Facebook has been bashing him but if you look at her Instagram that is one hell of a solid trap that even Chris Hansen would want to put his name to it.

    2. I’m glad this happens so publicly – that way people can’t deny that it happens less privately.

      1. It was honestly the most disgusting piece of human behaviour. All these girls are saying how at least she wasn’t a slut for just having sex with someone who is famous… If alphas and especially betas can’t have sex with young hotties after getting famous then we as a civilisation are done. That is the only thing motivating society to not fall into the great abyss.

        1. Something very similar happened to me on a very small scale back in school days. She accused me (probably one of the most shy and most harmless guys that time) of stalking in order to boost her popularity.
          What annoys me isn’t that it happened – you always have assholes around – but that societies’ narrative wouldn’t allow for “abusive women” to be contemplated, thus slanting the playing field. That time, there was no defense against such women.
          This is changing rapidly, just look at the comments under the articles about that Franco incident.
          Soon, he can just shrug and say “don’t you guys pursue what *you* want, too?”, and be done with it.

        2. I told a white guy just recently my dad’s uncle, a migrant worker, got LYNCHED at the age of 28 or 29, in 1938, for a FALSE RAPE ACCUSATION by a white woman of the time.
          His only response was, “Oh shit!”, while giving him the hint to “KEEP YOUR WOMEN IN CHECK!”
          No wonder it’s becoming justified to call the Ku Klux Klan what they literally are: whipped white knights.

        3. White nationalists are indeed white knights.
          The bond of brotherhood between a black man and a white man should be infinitely stronger than any misguided desire to “protect” white women.
          Chances are every white woman who got a black guy lynched for sleeping with her… just regretted it the next day, or didn’t want to explain the half-black baby.

        4. Its a big risk. I’ve had a few girls on the internet dating claim to be 18yo, and only after engaging in further conversations do you realize that they are still in school, 15-17yo, and just attention whoring on cupid.
          I have no truck with these girls. I screenshoot their conversations and then send them off to the site to get them booted off.

        5. you guys are suckers… it was a publicity stunt…. nothing more than James Franco attention whoring for his new movie.

        6. Fuck, you should move the middle east where they beat these worthless bitches to a pulp and kill the sluts (literally!).

        7. Ray wolfson does not it beg the question about his new movie on the same topic that men are targeted by such behaviour and society at large defends the female who is persisting the male. I did basic research on the the movie and he plays a teacher where a female student is infatuated with. Yet the female teachers with make students are always seen to be the victims of an abusive relationship, depressed or alcohol. A clear case for societies double standard.

        8. Yet another reason not to talk to girls on OKC more than a message or two.

        9. Are you black? Just curious.
          You know how white nationalists bark about the 30,000 a year rapes by black men on white women? How many do you think are women crying rape after they get caught with the black dude because they don’t want daddy / boyfriend / society to find out? Fucking insane whores.

        10. The leaders don’t really believe that bullshit. It’s just there to recruit chumps.

        11. Remember, most of these guys are basement dwelling virgins/nerds who have so little time out in the real world that they are unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality.

        12. There is a lot of consensual black-on-white sex in America. But the black-on-white rape figure you mention derives from the Dept. of Justice’ annual National Crime Victimization Survey, which is anonymous. These are not To-Kill-A-Mockingbird stories of a white girl caught in the act. Interestingly, the same Survey finds white-on-black rape to be almost non-existent.

        13. And how do these black-on-white rapes happen, hmm?
          Most likely because a young lady chooses to spend her time in the presence of alpha males.
          I know plenty of Tyrones and they ain’t rapin’ anyone.

    3. James Franco’s text game sucks balls, he needs to come to ROK and learn a thing or two about gender dynamics.

    4. I’ll never understand a woman’s satisfaction out of humiliating nice guys who come on too beta.
      They love to brag about how they got a man to show weakness.

      1. Only humans with low self-confidence enjoy humiliating other humans to give themselves an ego boost..
        In other words, that would include pretty much all women.

      2. Last time a girl flaked on me she texted the next day.. which i ignored and she kept texting… Flaky women lol

    5. He doesn’t need game as much as the rest of us because he is James Franco. He has the star power behind him. I’m sure he had the next lined up after this one. The girl learned that, being underage, how to make the most of the situation by getting the attention high that she was seeking. Unfortunate for her, it’s all downhill from here.

      1. The girl learned that, being underage […]
        I’m not so sure she was underage. Isn’t 17 the age of consent in many states? Be that as it may, plenty of people out there will crucify him for the “creepiness” factor.

        1. Women hurl the “creep” at men who are openly attracted to or dating younger women. The “creep” term is the nuclear bomb they can drop on a guy, next to “your dick is small”.
          Women are so insulted by men wanting younger tighter women because it hits on their deepest insecurity, that of hitting the wall and becoming invisible. God damn attention whores, all of them.

        2. 16 is legal in UK. And the girl was Scottish from what I have heard. So it would not have made much headlines except for media who like to spin this shit out of control.

        3. To neutralize that one, introduce yourself as Uncle Creepy, who works for the CPS….

        4. Yes, on Wikipedia is said that having sex above 12-16 is not rape but a lesser crime.( in Scotland) very weird that she just blew him off with the age card.

        5. Honestly they need to hang all the logicians in the is it that you can put a 14 year old on an electric chair for having the mental capacity to murder but by the same token not for the mental capacity to have sex?

        6. the way women use “creep” is highly subjective. A fat, unhygenic, disheviled nerd who walks up and tells them that they’re hot is “creepy”. If a famous actor were to do the same thing it would be “sweet”.
          Most of women’s behavior depends on how attracted she feels to a given man rather than logic.

        7. The age of consent is mostly 16 in the US except for some States where it may be 17 and even 18 in a few. In some of the weirder States there’s an absolute age of18. But in the more normal places the age can be as low as 13 if the guy is no more than 4 years older. For example, if the girl was 13 1/2 and the guy was 17 then it would be legal. In the States where the age is 16 the guy could be a 100 and it’s legal. The only time the age is 18 in a 16 aoc state is if one of the parties is in a position of authority over the other eg. teacher, step parent, foster parent, cop etc etc

        8. In NJ and Conn. next door it’s 16. But even that 17 is not absolute because if the guy was 18 and the girl 14 it would be legal in NY etc(4 yr age difference exception)
          Paedophilia is more of a psychiatric term (not legal) and it applies to a child which medically is someone between the ages of 3 and puberty.Once you are over the age of puberty it’s not paedophilia. In fact, even if a girl were 12 but had not yet reached puberty and the guy was a very immature 20 psychiatrists would not consider that paedophilia (the law is another matter)
          You’re right though, stupid females use this “pedo” nonsense when an older man is with a younger female because they are jealous. I once had to severely chastise a female for doing this. It concerned one of the Olsen twins whose bf is like 40 something(she’s like 26 for god’s sake!) I warned her that she could be sued for defamation for using this “pedo” term.And then to just insult her more I said that she probably doesn’t have a pot to piss in which is why she’s not more careful about what she says and obviously just some lower class trash who believes that she could shoot off her mouth with impunity. You could hear a pin drop and you can be sure that no bitch or “white knight” said a word.

        9. I find females pretending to be males using the name Hell Biker to be pretty damn creepy.

        10. I’ve realized this also. It’s really older women who started the whole “creepy” when a man dates a younger woman, and some younger women buy it. It’s a manipulation technique to control the man’s dating options by limiting his access to younger women through shame. I used to participate on a dating board, and every single day, multiple times a day, young girls would ask if it’s weird that she’s attracted to men 10, 20, even 30 years old than she. No, it’s that natural female hypergamy.

    6. This is known as “Rape-O”, and was elucidated 40 years ago in the classic book “Games People Play”.
      It’s time to #bancreepy.

      1. I fully support starting a #bancreepy campaign simply in spite of #banbossy. We should start an “American Females are Socially Inept” week or something… I think I feel an article coming on.

    7. A 35 year old man asks a 17 year old student on holiday with her mother whether he should book a room at her hotel. The text messages get leaked and published all over the web. I’m not sure, what has this whole exchange to do with ‘flaking’? What was she supposed to do, exactly?

      1. Btw: Franco was aware of her age. He told her to follow him on Instagram and tag him in the photos she had taken, added her, initiated contact and IMMEDIATELY requested to know her age.

      1. Not as ridiculous as having an age restriction of 21 to purchase alcohol (I don’t even drink and find it hilarious!)
        I am currently living in West of Scotland and this bird resembles a typical 18 year old; look physically too old for their age and slightly too childish mentally.

    8. Yep saw it on reddit. Their rationalisation hamsters went into overdrive. He was stupid as shit to go for a British girl. Not least one that is open to as much attention seeking as that one was. There was comments by schoolmates, her boyfriend etc all getting a kick that Franco wanted to rail her. For her its all win, for him it was all risk. What the fuck was he thinking

    9. I just outed a girl in real life who pulled that off on me, and she did it complete with a Colorado angle, playing the rape victim card to the point she claimed she can’t tell the difference between sex, lust, and love, and a fake suicide note; she lost her job for it, to the point she even started stalking me at one point. Yes, the same girl I outed in front of her co-workers.
      Seriously, WTF? She even OFFERED me a pic of herself, topless, and I even rejected it out of disgust. Classless.

    10. And 17 isn’t illegal in most jurisdictions.
      Nonetheless I still check ID if things seem suspicious.

    11. that was bullshit… publicity stunt for his new movie… entertainment business is so fickle the attention whores will do anything for a hit.

    12. I’m too cynical to believe this is anything other than a staged publicity stunt.
      His personal minders probably have minders. Apparently he is working on a new film about a high-school soccer player who falls in love with her coach who is older, so could be a promotion for that.

  6. How the hell is it possible that since Women today are easier than ever,the slut factor is historically high,are more than willing to be fucked by numerous guys,BUT at the same time the number of guys in search of Game or Pickup skills is at an all time high too???
    If more women are having sex with multiple men,how is that most men are having a hard time getting laid?Makes no sense.That’s like saying there are more cars but ewer drivers.

    1. Men are simple and straightforward, thus are eternally mystified by female psychology. To make matters worse, today’s young men have been fed a steady diet of feminist propaganda that flies in the face of actual female behavior. They just need some pointers on how to navigate the landscape, which boils down to Costanza’s epiphany to do the exact opposite of their programming when confronted with a heroic crisis.

      1. They just need some pointers on how to navigate the landscape, which boils down to Costanza’s epiphany to do the exact opposite

        That bit from Seinfeld may well be the single greatest piece of “advice” I’ve ever come across, in regard to breaking free from learned behavior and the straitjacket of my personal comfort zone. It’s never failed me and I heartily endorse it.
        On a flight and notice that the girl next to me is in the solid 7-8 range? Don’t doze off under the sanctity of your headphones as you normally would, Writer With A Dick, say something to her… start a conversation.
        At a packed lounge and notice a pair of hotties posted up at the bar with their appletinis? Don’t drift over to the most passable 6 you can find and take refuge under the pleasant drone of conversation about some fucking band that you both like. Get your pussy ass over to those two hotties and ask ’em what they’re drinking. Say something — fucking anything.
        And so on. Rinse and repeat and all that, until this shit becomes second nature; until it becomes such an automatic reflex that the time between your initial notice of a potential new cock puppet and your first words to her is so minute as to be negligible.

        Also some instruction such as wearing clean, matching shoes and belt, a fine pair of masculine slacks, a fitted shirt, shiny but simple watch, appropriate hair grooming

        This is indisputable. But the state of your average slampig passing herself off as a Western female these days is one of slovenliness without shame; of unwashed hair thrown back in some careless approximation of a ponytail that’s trying to transform itself into a bun; of sweatpants and of chronic flip flop-sporting. And this sorry business has far too many young men convinced that:
        a) lack of care put into one’s appearance is the “new style”
        b) they shouldn’t bother if all they’re getting for their efforts is some piece of shit that looks as if she just rolled out of bed with streaks of man chowder from last night’s hookup still caked and dried across her flabby, frappuchino-filled stomach.

    2. The resolution to the paradox is as follows: Women are more promiscuous than ever, but they are also more hypergamous than ever. So men that are perceived as having the highest status are having ever more sexual encounters, while men that are perceived as having lower status are having ever fewer.
      The end result is that ~10% of the men are having sex with ~60% of the women, but having lots of it. So the need to demonstrate high status is paramount.

      1. what kinda 9-10 guy would do a 4? I wouldnt even do a 6, I would rather watch porn
        More like top 10% do top 30%, the other ten percent do the top 50% and the rest are fatties

        1. After a 4 month dry spell or with enough alcohol impairing his neurocortex, most alphas would fuck a 6 if no other options are immediately available.

        2. He got the wording slightly wrong.
          10% of the men are having 60% of the sex (with decent looking women).
          Everyone (men and women) want to fuck with top 20% of the opposite sex.

        3. Because it’s easy. Takes no effort. It’s laziness.
          And it’s more 8-9/10 guys swooping the 6/10 chicks. Passes the boner test and the girl does ALL the seducing for you.

        4. All of us have banged a slumpbuster or too.
          I used to not mind fatties so I would bang them on the side for the sheer convenience of it. I mean there’s literally no work at all. She pulls your pants down, gets your dick out, gets you off, cleans up, then has a meal waiting, etc.
          Sex cartels don’t work when a few percent of men are willing to break them.

    3. Because women are primarily having sex with the same 20 to 30 percent of the male population. It’s a feast for the guys at the top of the social ladder. But it’s famine for the social retard.

    4. Go take a walk outside and meet people. You will meet a large number of awkward, normal people. You then will meet an occasional very good looking man. This is who is having all the sex, since women throw themselves aggressively to these men, because they know they don’t have to settle for an average man and they can easily find these natural alphas just by walking out on the street for a given amount of time.
      Saying that maybe 10% of the male population “has got it” and these men have to put in very little effort to bedding women, and especially if it is a promiscuous society, then 60%-70% of women that he meets will be attracted to him enough to fuck him. They don’t care about the 90% of other men enough to even bother with them, hence the flaking, since they know that with a vagina they can magically pull the top guys, since guys generally have little to no standards. Women also care little about STDs or consequences (or lord forbid, a sexy son as a result) as long as the guy is attractive.

      1. Of course the hilarious irony is that their real goal is to get these alphas to commit – which they almost always fail at.

        1. there’s always a simp or a herb waiting to pick up the pieces…. AND they know that too…. the random nature of women is not exactly deliberate, but in many cases it’s subconsciously calculated… like a cat stalking a mouse just knows what to do….. women just know what games to play when it comes to both mating and provisioning.

        2. Just as there is a friend zone for men, there’s a friend zone for women. For men, the friend zone is ‘no sex’, for women, it’s ‘sex but no commitment’. And just as there is a red pill for men, there is a red pill for women: realizing that those alphas you covet have no interest in having a permanent relationship with you. And just as very few men take the red pill, very few women take the red pill.
          Unlike men, though, it’s hard to imagine how a female red pill movement could arise, since women are constantly undermining each other.

        3. The women in my life are doing an amazing job of mating, but a terrible job of provisioning.
          They really all honestly think they have a decent shot at marriage based on a history of random hookups. It’s puzzling and bizarre.

      2. Correct. It’s hypergamy über alles.
        However, the manosphere in general does do itself a great disservice by propagating the myth that the majority of women are sluttier than ever. As I’ve said before, the truth is that the number of cock carousel riders is grossly overstated – the number of cock carousel watchers is grossly understated. These women want an alpha to commit, and they will not settle for anything less (at least not while in their prime). They won’t put out until they’re reasonably sure that commitment is forthcoming, and they sure as hell won’t give any man who’s less than the top 5% the time of day (her own rank be damned). So she waits.
        I’ve known several attractive girls of year long dry spells. Obviously, it’s not that they cannot ride the carousel, it’s that they won’t. But they’re always watching it.

        1. This is also correct.
          Dudes online acting like every girl out there is fucking like it’s the end of the world.
          Most are just waiting on the high status guys.

        2. yes, girls are very good at ‘playing’ dirty and being all seductive and suggestive, but many are in fact not even fiddling with themselves more than once or twice a month….. but you get those panties off and behave in the correct fashion – you’ll have her hooked… .like a wild animal eating out of your hand.

        3. The dynamic for men and women is different. Men have to go out and seek women and actively seduce them. Women don’t have to do much other than show their face. If you are a hot girl (i.e. top 10%) you could far far more male attention than you could ever possibly hope to answer, and there’s just so much happening to you that it’s hard to keep it under control. If you’re such a girl and you’re not mormon or muslim or something, you’re having a bunch of sex, even if you’re really picky about who you bed. The consequence of this is that those girls you’re talking about DO exist, but they are the uglies and fatties. There are absolutely plenty of young girls around who haven’t had sex for months/years. Because no guy wants them.

        4. Yep. That’s it. It’s that black and white. Above a certain threshold, a girl is having a bunch of sex, and below it she isn’t. No shades of gray, no other factors worthy of consideration.
          Wait, you’re that same clown from the other thread. No wonder lol. Carry on.

        5. And you’re that same idiot who lacks reading comprehension. I never said or implied, even vaguely, that it’s a black and white line. How the fuck do you come up with this shit?

        6. “If you are a hot girl […] and you’re not mormon or muslim […] you’re having a bunch of sex, even if you’re really picky about who you bed”.
          Dude, are you fucking stoned?

        7. I’m willing to go out on a limb and say that in the absence of available outlets for hypergamy, other things take its place like exogamy.

        8. Exactly! My buddy and I were debating the other day and what we figure is that, much like the gap between rich and poor is large, the gap between high n and low n women is large. The idea is that, more than ever, there are large numbers of say 40 n women out there but there are a great number of 4 n women as well. Put some different numbers in fron t of the n but you get the idea, its the middle ground that is more rare.

        9. I can’t believe I’m saying this though….but go a bit easy on the readers. It’s not entirely their fault. If all the girls I met were the ones out at the clubs I’d feel the same way about the average American female.
          While there are a lot of good ones out there, they are located in places this crowd wouldn’t think to look. In complete honesty it’s also going to require sacrifices this crowd isn’t willing to make.
          Better explained here:

        10. This is absolutely correct. Most girls are waiting on high status guys.
          A drunken mistake or two might happen.

        11. I know plenty of good girls and they aren’t very responsive to pickup artistry, and sex generally isn’t on offer without commitment/marriage.
          Otherwise they wouldn’t be good girls.
          Personally, I’m glad there’s an abundance of sluts out there. But it’s reassuring to know “good girls” do exist. I’m just not interested in marrying ’em, you know?

      3. This myth is simply not true. All of the top shelf guys I know are happily married one woman men who paired up young with the hottest, or near hottest, women in high school. This over-focus on low status men who have sex with a ton of low status women is nothing more than a mirage perpetuated by social media. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing but it is what it is.

        1. The pattern I see is top shelf guys who married the high school hottie… but are in a horrible marriage now or on their way to getting divorced.
          The typical guy’s attitude is “thank God that’s over”.

    5. If the woman is even slightly above average she is bombarded with constant validation through social media and text messaging.
      It’s nearly impossible for an average guy to get with her unless you play the game so to speak.

    6. True, but women don’t just f*ck every guy they f*ck – perceived – alpha’s. Popular pickup is an acting technic for beta’s wanting to play the alpha role…in the hopes of making themselves more sexually desirable to women.

    7. All decent looking women only fuck the alpha males at the apex. They ignore the rest. The apex is getting smaller and smaller thanks to smart phones and Tinder since women only want to fuck the highest value male they believe they deserve.

      1. You’re missing another factor. It’s also about social competition with other females. The women want to snag the male who will do the best job of making their friends(and enemies) jealous.

        1. Yeah – all this talk about percentages is kind of silly. Women want to be fucking the absolute one single best man possible. And the main motivation for doing so is to prove to their female friends they got that man.
          The only reason more than one guy is getting laid is because different women have different perceptions of who the apex alpha is.

    8. If more women are having sex with multiple men,how is that most men are having a hard time getting laid?Makes no sense.That’s like saying there are more cars but ewer drivers.
      Because they’re all having sex with the same subset of men. You have 20% of the guys getting laid by a different girl every week and 80% who go years between sex. Anybody in that 80% is going to be interested in game.

  7. “… whoever cares less in a relationship has all the power.”
    Absolutely true.

  8. It is almost identical to salesmanship. I find prospects, make contacts, sometimes get a chance to present, it goes well, then they flake and don’t return my calls. The old pros make a lot of contacts and can pick up the phone and work them. Rejection and loss are part of the game. Occaisonally they bring in the big fish and everyone feasts. Key is to maximize your game so this happens more often. Understand your industry and the money streams, then fish there. Keep in mind everyone wants to take advantage of you anyway they can. Many relish the chance to humiliate you. When you win you are a hero, when you lose you are a zero. A tough hide and a place to go lick your wounds helps here. But what you are saying applies to sales : you must project that you are a winner and have a stable of clients; you don’t need this prospect to survive.

    1. Not bad. Your mentality is one that I’ve found to be a good foundation, and the one that I credit with making my game successful.
      When it comes to girls, treat as if it’s a business and the product you are selling is yourself. Operate from that mentality and you can’t go wrong.

  9. This is also why women can’t successfully run small businesses, invent things, or really contribute to society.
    Don’t worry about flaking from a hot girl. In a few years she won’t be hot anymore anyways.

    1. really? not contribute to society? as an occupation i will be a Child Psychiatrist and as for my contribution to society I co-founded my own charity for children with special needs. what have you done?

      1. You WILL BE? So why are you asking others what they have done, when you haven’t actually done anything YOURSELF. You can’t even capitalize or punctuate a sentence properly. And you’re gonna pretend to help children? Stay the fuck away from pretending to “teach” or “help” children.
        You have a “special need” to go back to grade school and learn to form a fucking sentence first. Jesus Christ.

      2. You have ultimately demonstrated typical female thinking. You take everything personally, such is your self absorption and solipsism.
        The GENERAL trend of history (even recently) OVERWHELMINGLY demonstrates that men produce, women don’t.
        For every Marie Curie, there are 100 Isaac Newtons. For every Margaret Thatcher, there is JFK, Reagan and Ghandi etc etc. Even today when commerce and economic forces are more democraticised and accessible than ever before, women are not innovators and pioneers, men are (Zuckerberg, Gates etc.).
        You may very well be a child psychiatrist and that is admirable.
        However YOU are not the general overall trend. The overall trend is man achieving more than woman.
        It’s not about YOU.

        1. Ain’t just females. There’s a lot of DUDES on here that I see taking generalized comments personally. It’s extremely feminine behavior and says more about them then their comments say about the objects of their outrage.
          Then these dudes(I refuse to call them “men”) turn around and wonder why they can’t get laid.

    2. >Don’t worry about flaking from a hot girl. In a few years she won’t be hot anymore anyways.
      Thanks for the consolation, but it’s still ME who wasted time and didn’t get laid. Seeing her self-destruct doesn’t make up for me not getting laid.

      1. (1) It’s annoying but one can cope with not getting laid for a night or two
        (2) It is best to not waste any resources on things like dates or meeting up – arrange your life so women have to accommodate your schedule not the other way around.

  10. I hate flakes because I’m a man and I’m forced to make sense.
    Also I don’t see it as a good idea to have multiple dates just for dating, if I get stood up then I just take my laptop and do some work instead. I’m not as primitive as a woman in that mentality.
    Offtopic: Why the fuck are men on ROK replying to comments started off by women it’s against the rules here. Also, why don’t moderators ban the bitches and betas replying to women?

    1. “Offtopic: Why the fuck are men on ROK replying to comments started off
      by women it’s against the rules here. Also, why don’t moderators ban the
      bitches and betas replying to women?”
      **Because a lot of guys here are beta faggots that jump to reply to any cunt that posts a message.
      **The mods try the best they can and have been doing an amazing job.

    2. This is what I do. When I was younger I tried the multiple line up thing but deemed it way too much work after only a few tries. Much easier to have work, school, or a business venture that you are always plugging away at. Then the girl becomes a distraction, nothing more. I set up meets at an SBUX near my place and if she doesn’t show I make the 2 minute walk home and make a French press coffee and get back to work. I won’t even buy a coffee before the girl gets to SBUX anymore. When they do show, I randomly flop between buying coffee for myself only and buying for both.

      1. I like that! Great time management.
        I used to have multiple dates on the same time but it’s kind of beta to have, shows too much neediness to get laid. Besides if you flake girls, they might start flaking back and it’s a bad circle. Better to stay more dominant.

  11. “To combat flaking, you simply cannot care.”
    Flaking is just another variation of the shit test. When dealing with women, always make alternate plans, even if that plan is nothing more than riding your motorcycle over to your favorite bar and hanging with your friends.
    Don’t get upset when she flakes on you. She may be all apologizes after her flake, don’t be fooled, it’s part of the shit test. She may ask you what you did after her flake, don’t go into big details here. Say something like, “No big deal. I got on my bike and went to see some friends.” Don’t tell her if those friends are male or female, and don’t give her any other details. She may press you for more details, just ignore her.
    Should you give her a second chance? Go ahead, she may have learned her lesson. If she flakes again, ignore her. It’s just not worth your time, money, or emotional health….move on.

    1. I did that with a girl two months ago. She flaked one me, and we met for drinks on a different night. She sees me walk in and her jaw drops. First thing she said was, “you are wayyy hotter than I remembered.” Gee no shit? I ended up dropping contact. She wanted to bang but I blew her off. Moral of the story, always try to retain some power if you can.

    2. yes exactly… she has to fit into your world….. you invite her to join you doing something you want to do… don’t take her on a fucking date, just invite her to the bar you’re going to anyway.

      1. All well and good, but I’ve personally always had trouble with this line of thinking. Who the fuck just “goes out to the bar” anyways? You guys actually like going out to these kinds of venues to sit around on a bar stool, drinking nasty, overpriced beer? Kind of violates the ethos promoted by this community (improve yourself, stack money, etc), don’t you think?
        Flakes piss me off because I have better things to do than getting ready to go out or even being “out and about” for no discernible purpose. But maybe that’s just me.

        1. if you don’t like going out, then your not working hard enough…. it’s nice to go out, especially if they have good food… find yourself a classy place…… if you take the ‘over priced beer’ attitude then your not appreciating the venue and or need to find a better place …. that’s what you are paying for, not the beer….
          if it’s not normal to cruise about town on your own steam, then girls will sense that it’s a special ‘date’ just for them….

        2. Maybe. I just find that it’s a waste of time and money. To each their own though.

        3. Additionally, it doesn’t help that the food/drinks they serve in these establishments are downright unhealthy, no matter where you go. Do that shit too often and say bye bye abs.

  12. “Dating” (if you can even call it that anymore) in the West has devolved into total warfare. There really are no holes barred anymore. So yes, set up multiple dates for the same day and then turn the flaking back around onto them. Lie about your profession, lie about your height, lie about anything you have to. Women don’t care anymore, so neither should men. It’s by any means necessary these days.

    1. Hear hear. Whatever it takes has become my motto as well. I once pretended I was Aaron Ramsey (Arsenal footballer, we look a little alike) on vacation. Little british accent and everything. It worked.
      Heck, I should probably do that again soon.

      1. Admirable (for you) and sad (as a commentary on women) that pretending to be someone famous works.

    2. I’ll buy into that – but only half way.
      Another way of looking at it: Women do not give a shit, and you let her set the rules, and do exactly the same?
      Why not show her some disrespect by showing something superior?

    3. I even lie about my name.
      Girls actually buy it if you say you’re “Rusty Shackleford”.

      1. It’s a game with me and my friends.
        We give each other fake names and then seduce girls.
        One of my buddies even had to change his name on Facebook……

        1. Haha, good on you.
          There’s no rule you can’t have more than one Facebook.

    4. There really are no holes barred anymore.
      Especially not when today’s sluts are so used to taking it in their ass, in their mouth — pretty much any hole you can fit it in. If we could fit it in their nostrils, there’d be a whole slew of booger-dick motherfuckers walking around.

      turn the flaking back around onto them

      Exactly. Nothing connotes high value like a guy who has too much else going on to waste his time or sit still for too long. Plus, turning the tables and giving females a spoonful of their own cuntitude is always a satisfying thing to do.

    5. Bang on. To a blue-pill guy, flaking seems totally random and mysterious. They can’t understand why a girl who was so totally interested in them suddenly cuts of all communication. “Maybe it was something I said.” “Maybe I didn’t show her enough affection.” This is one of the sources of the ‘women are complicated’ myth.
      Now I just flake girls randomly, and the best part is that I don’t even do it to ‘get back at them’. I just do it cause I have self worth, a lot of girls in rotation, and I don’t feel like hanging out with that particular girl at the moment so I don’t reply. Easy as that. It’s done wonders for my self-confidence (and I actually understand why women do it).

      1. I end up flaking on girls simply because I’m busy, or my phone I use for non-important communications runs out of battery and I can’t be arsed to plug it in.

    6. You know why that is?
      I’ve described it before but basically it’s because we don’t value people for people anymore. They’re not in it because they generally care about the man they’re involved with, they usually just care about their relationship for how it can advance their social status.

      1. Nearly everyone I choose to spend time around (including my job) values people.
        You need to find better people to be around.

  13. Ultimately this is why women refuse to give up the antiquated notion of waiting for the man to approach. It gives them options to leverage maximum value – validation, attention and maximising the value of the sex/relationship partner they get. By framing the interaction essentially as man chasing woman (please spare me the PUA guff about how PUAs don’t chase), it puts them in pole position. With so many options, it does contribute to indecision, I will admit, but it also contributes to arrogance and lack of social grace (i.e., I’ll just blow him off, another one will be around the corner).
    The thing I still have to internalise is that women get off just on the validation. For a long time this just didn’t make sense to me. The shitty thing is that the nature of man chasing woman is backed up by numerous acceptable cultural excuses:
    “I want to make sure he’s really interested in me”
    “I’m not easy/don’t want to look like a slut”
    “Men are so lazy these days”
    “I like a man who goes after what he wants”
    Whilst this is difficult to change, I would say compliance is important. For every step you make, get one from her. Force them to show their hand fast. Those that know the game will have to reveal themselves. Harden and become calloused.

    1. Can anyone please explain the high women get from attention? I get it logically but can’t grok it internally. I’ve had situations where drunk and just looking for action, been knocked back by a 5, who clearly got off on denying me after encouraging all the way to the brink.
      Descriptive imagery and clever metaphor would help.

      1. I see it from both sides – as a “guy” who is approaching cold I experience “normal” life, as the guy on stage that women come to, I get to pick or choose. It feels good to have really hot, young women that you know are there to have sex with you come up. Women get the same high from the guys that hit on them. You are there because you want to bang them.
        It’s really eye-opening. It’s why I stopped doing “on-line” stuff – I had a profile due to a advertising thing set up for us and you could “chat with the band”, and I got thousands of messages from women – photos of tits, shaved snatch, you name it on the “types of offers”, I stopped paying attention.
        One of my friends doing the same thing said, “Wow. So this is why women don’t respond.” He was right – there were too many so I might read one out of 50 and respond to one out of 100 if it seemed like someone was real. Sure I would scan the photos – to either laugh or see if someone was “normal” – but it was VERY useful to gain insight into a “woman’s” world…

        1. OK, so flipping the script helps.
          For those not in music scene or football stars, do you have thoughts on managing the interaction to get more compliance, as I struggle with this in practice.
          I suppose that validation via attention for them is what sex is for us, so how does one steer away from giving them validation? The fact that we have to approach already signals our interest and thus gives validation.
          Should you just focus on showing your value? I get stuck because I like to show some acknowledgement of their value, but how much is too much? Or do you show none at all?

        2. “Should you just focus on showing your value? I get stuck because I like to show some acknowledgement of their value, but how much is too much? Or do you show none at all?”
          Yes, focus on your value. Dont forget that your own value can be directly tied to the compliments you give. Always best to give too little than to give too much. Once the ltr is established you can give them more freely as long as its not overdone.
          “I suppose that validation via attention for them is what sex is for us, so how does one steer away from giving them validation?”
          Just dont do it. If you you must give them validation, don’t compliment their looks.

      2. There’s a lot to it. A few things:
        1. Women are judged by, and find confidence in, their desirability and not their conquests. A 5 can actually find more affirmation of her sexual appeal in rejecting a man than in accepting his advances. (“I’m better than him because I rejected him.”)
        2. Gaining attention is a low-cost endeavor for a female, and perhaps that’s why it’s so effective. A decent looking woman can simply put on some makeup and some heels, or putting on yoga pants and going to the gym, and soak up confidence-boosting attention. She only has to do very little to get what she wants, and that makes her feel good about herself.
        3. Female competition is biological.

        1. Interesting. I admit, I still find it hard to internalise. Guys typically do not need attention for its sake. Yes, its nice, but unless you are a narcissist, its not essential. I myself can’t see the value of it, but then again i’m an introvert. Being male, we derive our own sense of worth and esteem.
          So to go a bit deeper to a biological level, what is the point of this affirmation if they don’t capitalise it?
          Does the attention reflect an assurance to her that if needs be, resources are available (emotional and what not) to ensure her survival?
          It’s a pity, because the 5 I mentioned above happened when on holiday. A couple of nights later, a different girl (in retrospect) was looking to hook up and for a woman, was very direct in her approach. However, irritated by the 5 (she deliberately shot me down in a very public way) and wary, I left her hanging, because I didn’t want to give her free validation
          Flaking really does spoil it for those who don’t and just leave men with their guards up.

        2. “So to go a bit deeper to a biological level, what is the point of this affirmation if they don’t capitalise it?”
          It’s pretty simple: that simple affirmation is all they need to feel good about themselves. If there’s a biological trigger for that, perhaps it’s that competition amongst females is based on looks. She knows where she stands – obtains security, however fleeting – when she knows she’s attractive enough to pick up a man.
          “Does the attention reflect an assurance to her that if needs be,
          resources are available (emotional and what not) to ensure her survival?”
          Probably… men want respect and women want security. But I think on a more basic level women enjoy the attention because it’s an ego boost.
          “It’s a pity, because the 5 I mentioned above happened when on holiday. A
          couple of nights later, a different girl (in retrospect) was looking to
          hook up and for a woman, was very direct in her approach. However,
          irritated by the 5 (she deliberately shot me down in a very public way)
          and wary, I left her hanging, because I didn’t want to give her free
          It happens. A woman with such a direct approach can actually be a turnoff. But the fun thing is this: she’s expecting you to jump at the chance to hook up with her. Since she’s already pot-committed, make her work a little harder for it. Easy money.

      1. Dude, the comments section is not designed to be a pissing contest, but to expand understanding and help each other out.
        I’m observing market dynamics and pointing out the hypocrisy that despite all the empowered womyn you-go-grrl talk, women still have the courage of a mouse.

      2. Women approach and attempt to seduce men they perceive as high value.
        I know. I’ve been the victim of this multiple times. You’d think I’d have wised up by now.

  14. This is why I’ve found that cold approaches or even clubs and the like are too hit or miss for me. If I meet a woman in that setting, I will have several set up to meet at the same time/place figuring that maybe one or two will show. And since I tell them (a couple of us are getting together) they expect a group. If more than one shows, I tell them (yeah, so-and-so will meet us there) then call a couple of guys that are always willing to come along. Of course that ONLY occurs when two show up at almost the same time – if one shows, and we’ve taken off, I’ll text the others telling them, “something came up and I couldn’t make it”. Just like they may if they are very nice. Most don’t text, and just don’t show… But then, I’m nicer than most women, although women might argue that point…
    Mostly I put zero expectations that a woman will show until after I’ve bedded her a couple of times. It used to be that after I nailed her once I could expect them to show – these days it seems to have gotten worse. Of course, my usually approach is to have women approach me after we’ve played a set at a gig or at one of my other hobbies where the women come to hook-up. Sure they may not admit it – but that is why they wait, or want to see me or one of the other guys. Then it’s a completely different dynamic where you can pick a couple and take them, and they compete with each other to see who gets you as their prize. You ALWAYS want women competing for you if you can arrange it.
    Women are competitive creatures, and if they don’t have to compete for you, they figure you aren’t worth their time. So if you want the best selection, you have to set things up to benefit you. And that is all that matters isn’t it? But it takes preparations – and most guys don’t have that infrastructure available to them. I’ve developed it over the years so it’s set up to maximally benefit me, or those of us “in” on the deal. 🙂

    1. “You ALWAYS want women competing for you if you can arrange it.”
      So true. I find it’s much easier to seal the deal if there are other girls that she sees vying for your affection. that’s why I always try to work the room first and gain value before talking to the girl I most want.

      1. To follow on from your other comment, this is the equivalent of flipping the script for a job interview – imagine if you switched the market so that at career fairs you had your own little stall and companies filed by competing for your services.

  15. I’ve lost track of the amount of flaking ive received, but ive also lost track of the girls as well. Its funny, they rarely call/text/email me back after I go silent or ignore them. It used to bother me, but now I expect it and always have alternative plans just in case. No harm, no foul.

  16. But lets also be realistic – while it sucks, it happens during our work lives and the job market specifically – who hasn’t gotten a call back from a recruiter or employer after promising lead up?

    1. It’s more like the interview being canceled on the same day as agreed upon-which rarely happens.

      1. More referring to the nature of the interaction generally – a company has the power, resources etc., advertises a position (fuckbuddy/boyfriend), has many applicants (i.e. potential suitors) and it is the companies (woman’s) decision if you get hired (i.e. fuckbuddy/boyfriend) unless you are rare, elite, highly sought after expert (i.e. George Clooney).

  17. Epidemic. I approached this girl after work in-line at the market, got her number, talked for 20 minutes. Set a date for drinks the next week. positive reciprocation. Txt messages me a full day before the actual date asking if the weather would be causing us not to go? I told her she had the wrong day. A BS “sorry i forgot what day it was” is her response. I didn’t respond to that, I sensed the flake coming and wanted to see what she would say next. The day of date I call her and she says she “cant go because she is dog sitting for her friend who broke her arm”. I laughed at her called her a flake and called plan B..

  18. the only problem with this logic is you’re doing all this work to still chase around used flakey pussy. if you can control your libido that’s when women notice and it drives them nuts because if you can control if you want to screw or not, then you control them. it’s the only power they have over males. that’s it. imagine if they didn’t have a vagina…we freaking wouldn’t give them the time of day! that’s the key, care less she does have one

  19. That’s why I always prefer MILF’s and Cougars to these 20 something year old entitled princesses(sluts in their prime), they’re more eager to please since they’ve already hit the wall. I never ask if they’re married or not either, not my problem.

    1. I’ve dated a few and none of them ever flaked on me. In fact, they were worried I’d flake on them.

    2. yes, older women will definitely bang harder and more easily…. just dim the lights a little and you won’t notice the cellulite…and leave her bra on so you don’t have a soggy pair bounding in your face….

  20. The last time I got flaked on was in college. I asked a girl to lunch the next day and she said yes, text her. The next day came and she came into the computer lab where i was, waved to me. I had to go to class and texted her that I’d be available after 70 minutes. In a five minute span of me seeing her and sending that text, she replies back saying that she already left.
    Later that day I texted her saying “If you didn’t want to have lunch with me, you should have just said so.” She says “Well I have a boyfriend but I could use a friend.” But at this point I’m still kind of a mangina, though this moment was clearly helping me out of it. So I just said “sure.” But it was only because we sat together in class and I didn’t want to feel uncomfortable. I deleted her number after that text. Later on she tells me to write my number down and give it to her because she lost my number. I still said “ok,” but I never actually gave it to her. Since she not only agreed to go on a date she never intended to go on, but never bothered to mention a boyfriend until after she flaked, I was slowly waking up to the reality of how women in college were.
    Edit: Wow. This happened when I was 20 (24 now), but it was only in this moment writing this post that I realized she never actually apologized for this. How did I miss something like that?! Is it easy to miss because of how it’s just so natural to most women today?

      1. unfortunately, they don’t like what they see. and it’s also not pleasant to have to feel suspicious, but after one has been dogged so many times…

  21. The flaking does not even stop in an LTR. I told my gf that my battery for putting up with crap is long depleted and my response to any of it will be to rent a U-haul and start packing up my crap.

  22. Flaking is just a result of hypergamy, Something they perceived as better came along. Many women don’t really have much honor so just because she made plans doesn’t mean she’ll follow through. Add in tons of thirsty men willing to put up with this behavior and you have yourself the epidemic.

    1. Exactly, they have them lined up for days and give each one a number and go down the line in preference. Some get the VIP pass, otherwise it’s when your number is up or an in the moment easy access deal (why you must always be closing). Stupid internet validation…

      1. There is no ‘close’ in the dating scene other than sex. If your penis is fully inside her vagina, you have closed the deal. Otherwise she could flake at any point. She could even flake while lying on your bed naked.

  23. How about the fact that while this has always existed to some degree the internet has taken the phenomenon and injected it with fucking Hulk serum. Now, instead of only having a finite number of beta oribiters in real life she can get all the validation she needs just by posting some semi-slutty pictures on social media – and the thirsty fools predictably come moaning like zombies.
    Years ago before I began ingesting the red pill I went through the most beta phase of my entire life. I did everything wrong and got all the predictable results. When the little bitch decided we should be just friends I said “fine.” A week or two later we’re in a group setting and I started dancing and making out with a significantly hotter chick in the group who gave me her number and everything. Surprise, surprise- snowflake doesn’t like that. Now she wants me. Oh, and she wants me to stay away from that “slutty” girl. Go. Fucking. Figure.

    1. “When the little bitch decided we should be just friends I said “fine.” A
      week or two later we’re in a group setting and I started dancing and
      making out with a significantly hotter chick in the group who gave me
      her number and everything.”
      I do this to every woman who “friendzones” me and it pisses them off to no end. They will text, flirt, and do the same thing infront of me with other men, but when I do the same thing with another woman it’s like I broke one of the ten commandments or something.

  24. It’s pretty much become a war of attrition, especially if you are not a traditionally attractive fellow. Makes it worse for me because I’ve always preferred “sniping” to “carpet bombing”.
    This makes it far worse for those that live in an area where they find few women appealing too.

  25. Good post and don’r care about her and play the numbers game – strive to get 50 times more numbers thereby increasing your chances if getting laid.

  26. If you meet a girl, get her number, text her, and she never texts you back..
    That’s not “flaking”.
    That’s just a rejection.
    Girls are sometimes unsure of how to reject you to your face so they will give you their number, just so they can tell their friends they got hit on, then they will not respond to you because they don’t want to see you. Again, that is not “flaking”, its simple rejection.
    Bottomline: If a girl wants to see you she will. If she doesn’t, she wont.

  27. Flaking, like most of the problem with women’s behavior these days, is an economic problem. The supply simply cannot keep up with the demand.
    It’s the most hopelessly lopsided market on Earth at present. I cannot think of another market that even comes close. It puts to shame virtually every other oligopoly out there.

    1. Very true. The modern sexual market is the most brutally honest market there is. There’s really no way to manipulate it.

    2. If you are in America legalized prostitution might be a good start. Men pay for sex either directly or indirectly anyway so why not make it legal. Plus, it would piss off feminists which I like.

      1. Countries where prostitution is legal, the women are forced to act like women otherwise men will just go out and get a root from a hoe.
        It’s just another way to control men by making prostitution illegal cause a man has to put up with her shit to get pussy, just like in America.

  28. I’m glad you figured out a way not to take it personally when someone doesn’t want to see you. But the bottom line is, you should never take it personally. Your philosophy of “value” prevents you from seeing how this is true, though.

  29. Another reason why I do not like to hire women. They are just as flaky in the workplace too, especially these young 20 somethings. Political correctness and sexism be damned.

    1. Women in the workplace have turned the American office into a snakepit of backbiting and ceaseless running-to-HR-to-whine-about-something-someone-said drama.
      And let’s not forget the endless discussion of their myriad health issues or constant complaining about their husbands and boyfriends. Or using their cunt-turds at home as a keeping-up-with-the-Joneses badge of honor and bringing the little fuckers up ad nauseam. (You know, the kids they love so much that they’d rather yak about bullshit for ten hours a day in a cubicle while Hubby’s actually the one chauffeuring the kids to and from school and feeding them dinner and checking their homework.)

      1. [email protected]”cunt-turds. Thats hilarious. Their shitty degrees and their paper pushing job and their cunt-turds and their yoga pants.
        Pretty much sums up todays average American cunt

      2. Don’t forget feminized men who would rather deal with their issues by running and crying to mommy(the boss, HR, SHARP, etc) than tell it to you directly like an old school man would have.

        1. In the feminised workplace, it’s often best to deal with things like a woman would, not a man.
          Especially when dealing with personnel issues involving women misbehaving. I once had to deal with a woman who kept trying to promote her relatives and engaging in illegal discrimination to do so. I became a frequent visitor over at HR.
          Nobody says you can’t find the enemy using their own tactics.

  30. Guys, never take numbers. Do what I do, go to clubs and get BJ from sluts or pull straight form the club to my small cheap pad and fuck her vag or throat.

    1. Brilliant. Reminds me of this guy that told me the best way to win in Vegas is to get ahead, then stop betting before you lose it back.

  31. Having lived in a major metropolitan city, I will say that men let the females win by trying analyze what type of “game” that the woman is trying to play. I mean they honestly waste time wondering about the context of the texts, the lengths between phonecalls, the day she wants to hang out. It’s simply madness and it really does empower women.

    1. Not to mention the fact that it positively reeks of feminine behavior.
      Females over-analyze every breath that comes out of a man’s mouth because plain, direct communication comes about as naturally to them as sprouting antennae and receiving signals from the cosmos does to your fucking dog. Imprisoned as they are within the dank, cobwebbed recesses of their solipsistic little brains, women can only interpret their interactions with us through the narrow filter of what they would say or do. So naturally, it never occurs to them that a man might be saying precisely what it is that he means to say.
      For men to now drive themselves nuts trying to “assess” a woman’s behavior in this fashion is but one of many examples of how thoroughly pussified the male gender has become.

      1. Depends. If you wanna catch fish, you don’t put a sweatsock on the hook and insist that you won’t have your behavior (or manhood) dictated by a fish.
        Dudes who take the time to develop Game techniques are just telling you what the fish are biting on. How you bait your hook doesn’t say shit about your manhood, but ignoring good information does make you look like a dunce.

        1. Yes. But, when taken to an extreme, it’s downright counter-productive and indicative of a feminine preoccupation with games and “signals,” as opposed to what should be on a man’s mind: tangible results and moving onto the next prospect.
          Sitting around and asking oneself, “What did she mean when she said this? How long will it be until her next text response and what will the duration say about her interest in me?” has very little to do with actually getting down to the river and catching fish.

        2. Can’t argue with that. Seems like instead of focusing on Game, a lot of men would benefit from just learning some self-respect.

  32. I’m at the point where I wish I’d get more flakes because I feel like I spend too much time with women.
    Strangely enough, as I hit this point, women just plain stopped flaking.
    Outcome independence, guys.
    When I want to set up a meeting with a girl I usually either just say I’m coming by her house, or tell her to meet me at a place I’m going to anyway. (I like going interesting places.)
    I do miss the joy of setting up fun dates with girls, but that era has passed.

    1. You know I’m in your boat I’m 27 and feel like I need to spend more time on myself and less time with woman (focusing on self improvement, career moves, etc). I still have a few girls in my rotation, with a main one which could be a possible LTR. (that’ll come after at least 6 months of hanging with her). I’ve got girls hitting me up, but I’d rather do things I want, like go to shows, hangout with my boys, scheming ways to make money.

      1. Yep. Give me my boys anyday.
        Stay out of LTRs. They are soul destroying and exist only to serve feminine imperatives. If a girl wants commitment, let her prove she is worthy of marriage. I’d marry a girl who proved herself worthy. (Like that’s ever gonna happen.)
        There is literally no difference between an LTR and a plate other than that it feels less emotionally destructive when a plate cheats you/stops seeing you.

  33. Then these same women have the audacity to turn around and whine, “where are all the good men?!”
    Women (especially feminists) are constantly telling men that they are NEVER entitled to sex, dates, or even attention from women. Believe me, we get it. Sites like Return of Kings are predicated on the notion that men must change their ways and improve themselves if they want to achieve more success with women (not to mention life in general). Whether it’s articles on good lifting techniques, game, lifestyle, travel, or whatnot, the message is that men have to bring at least something to the table.
    Women, on the other hand, seem to believe that they deserve Mr. Right just because they exist. Then, once they begin to age and they can no longer get by on their looks, you begin to hear them whine about not finding good men who are willing to commit. It’s why more of them are also promoting “fat acceptance/body positivity,” as well as shaming older successful men for liking younger women.
    (think of Hugo Schwyzer’s article in The Atlantic where he condemned Johnny Depp for dating a 27 year old)
    Well, tough luck. Just like men, women are not entitled to squat either. They are not entitled to any relationships, commitment, or even positive attention from “good men.”
    As many ROK articles have pointed out, women in their teens and twenties have the world on a platter, and could get sex and dates just by batting their eyelashes.
    Here’s the thing. If these women want to spend their 20s flaking, partying it up, and having very picky standards, that is entirely their right. I’m not going to moan about “hypergamy” or anything of the sort. BUT, they then have no right to complain about not being able to find a man if they’re single during their 30s and beyond. If they weren’t able to utilize their immense and unearned sexual power during their prime years to find a man, they forfeit their right to deserve a “good man.”

        1. Yhup, agree. Just saying it gets a little boring when we keep paraphrasing the same old shit over and over again.
          Didnt mean anything by it.

        2. Some of the new readers (like myself) might not have seen this yet so repetition is alright every now and again.

    1. My Grandfather was nearly 50 when he married a 20 year old virgin. To think that if lived today they would call him creepy or that he have manginas writing articles about him sickens me because he was a great man.

      1. I wouldn’t be surprised if today they would have run him out of town with pitchforks & torches ala Frankenstein’s monster style. 🙁

    2. ‘Entitled’ is a meaningless word. But anyway, those women you talk about ride the carousel as much as they want and always find a beta simp to settle down with them? *gasp*, say it ain’t true!
      The fact is, they know how to play the game. They’ve been playing it for decades and men are hilariously behind in understanding it. Once you understand the game you have no need for silly little ‘improvements’ to your life to get want you want.

      1. Ya know what’s more pathetic? That their game is so dumb but that we as men(collectively as a country) still fall for that.
        I still don’t understand how a man can be so tricked out by society that these guys put land-whales up on a pedestal.

    3. that entitlement complex goes into their whole “friend zone” spiel too. “You are not entitled to sex (all he wants is sex? all she can offer is sex?) just because you’re a nice guy, creep! You will be my friend and like it!” But when he decided to just cut her off instead of keeping the consolation prize of being friends, it’s “He just wanted my panties! Friends are good too!” She’s right. He’s not entitled to sex. But she’s not entitled to have an emotional tampon either.

    4. Actually…I don’t believe ANYONE is entitled to anything other than equality under the law, free speech, and the right to bear arms.
      I believe this because I’m not a communist. This belief in entitlement results in the kind of white trash women that now seem to be all the rage in reality TV shows, and I’ll be damned if I take the first step towards being like them by assuming that the world owes me anything.

  34. So is it pointless to approach these days? Three things come to mind reading these comments and the article:
    A) If a girl is genuinely into you, she’ll initiate the interaction
    B) If you approach, it signals ‘low-value’ to them
    C) If you approach, the validation is already fed
    Digesting all these ideas, doesn’t it make approaching seem almost pointless sometimes?

    1. Women don’t usually “approach”, they just show interest. In their pea-brains, that’s the same as an approach. Its up to you to make the approach in a way that gives her a non-sexual “excuse” to talk to you.

      1. I agree they don’t approach, that’s why I phrased it “initiate the interaction”. They have more subtle ways of showing interest, but even then, it’s still somewhat apparent.

        1. it’s always been my experience that they do approach… my first girlfriends as a teenager all came after me…. girls in the crowd at concerts and clubs came after me, kissed me …. i walk down the street and chicks turn their heads and do that flick of the hair and back of the wrist… “come and fuck me” signal…. it’s all in your attitude and posture….
          guys are too busy drooling at her tits, and eying her up… as soon as you are on her radar as ‘that guy’ the panties are staying on…..
          i see women as monkeys or farm animals… bags of meat for breeding with…. it’s a shame because women are actually quite lovely, but you have to lose that attitude and just see farm animals and think of yourself as the farmer…..
          suddenly it’s feeding time and the whole herd is interested….
          cluck cluck cluck…. moooooo

        2. I experienced the same. When I see women only as a prey, something to fuck and throw away, they go crazy and wet.
          But this is just plain disgusting for me, all the magic is gone. There are only a handful of real women who can flirt right, the majority of them sucks at it big time. I usually only go after the ones who act like this, the others are just super boring.

        3. “When I see women only as a prey, something to fuck and throw away, they go crazy and wet.
          But this is just plain disgusting for me, all the magic is gone.”
          You say what I think. After resolving the ongoing contradictions that are reminiscent of George Orwell’s 1984, I felt a greasiness associated with approaching women. It definitely loses its magic. I am glad I at least had a pretty memorable innocent first love experience, where we were both idealistic.

        4. yes there is a certain disgusting reality to it….. but when you are fucking a girl…. if you get her to open up about her experience…. she wants to feel used and abused…. she likes it when you take her… make her cum and then basically masturbate yourself inside her juicy sloppy cunt…. she wants to feel taken…..
          this is largely because she’s hard wired to think like this, because nature makes her give herself away… to the male that impregnates her, to the baby that forces it’s way out of her…. she’s an animal….. that is how it is….
          you can love her and shine light on her and lift her up, but it’s such a delicate and tricky process…. and basically quite filthy….. the labors of Hercules cleaning the stables and catching cerebus from hades, is what you are doing…. you steal the fire from the devil… the devil being the female existence.

        5. it’s the man’s role to both see the filthy reality AND mold the experience to be what he wants it to be….. if you want her all slushy and madly in love with you, it is possible to achieve that… when she’s enough in love with you that she dotes on you… THEN you can love her back and in that (dare i say it) ‘romantic’ ideal there is the beauty, the art, the cosmic wonder etc. etc. etc.
          it is still there to be had….. but you are basically walking along the edge of a razor… if you don’t fall off, you may will slice yourself open….

        6. I see what you say. For me I then again come full circle in running the logic of it all – I lead, I make most of the effort to create the experience AND her. She is not really magical ceteris paribus, but is due to me and my efforts.
          To sum – I assume most risk, make most effort, have less options (statistically speaking) and get the same return as someone who assumes less risk, makes less effort, has more options. If it fails, society and the family and divorce courts are on her side.
          You can call it spergy to think like this, but I think for far too long men’s problem has been a failure to do this and be swept along by societal conditioning, peer pressure and shaming.

        7. I agree that they approach “some”. What I was getting at is that the majority of women attracted to you won’t do this directly, even though they’re attracted.

    2. Exactly. For most of us its pointless. And if you are the kind of alpha male that the female will initiate an interaction with – then more than likely you have enough bitches that you dont even care one way or the other.
      Those fuckers ruin everything for every other man.

      1. Don’t hate the apex alpha. Become him.
        The most important property of alpha males is how unimportant women are to them. (Alpha males are the heaviest consumers of prostitutes and escorts.)
        And we’ll all be better off the more men figure out life isn’t a Disney movie.

  35. I feel like an infomercial saying it but when I first learned Game, this all seemed so counter-intuitive. Get more women by pushing them away? Get more interest by showing indifference?
    It sounds like hype, it sounds like snake oil, but you could set your watch by it. Short a woman on attention and she will hunt you down. I no shit just met a go-go dancer 10 years younger than me. We hung out once, and I told her that I was seeing 4 other girls, but only once in a while, so maybe i’d see her again. She just sent me a text: “…add my name to the line-up, I’d kinda like to stick around a little longer.” …fish. in. a barrel.

  36. To state the obvious perhaps the major part of female sexuality is narcissism, something which tends to be glossed over when we focus on the actual pleasure they may take from sex, or being dominated or whatever it is they may take from an interaction that for men denotes success. As feminism designs ever more ingenious methods whereby consent may be withheld, sexual potency shifts from male appetite (as something that can be seen as more or less efficient, as in the case of the alpha who only has to ‘want’ in order to ‘get’, to a disguised (and plausibly denied) female desire to be desired, that is the ability of women to demonstrate that such men are thirsty for her, but that she does not reciprocate that thirst, where such sexual potency can be measured in terms of the distance between male desire and female indifference (it works the other way round as well of course)
    Obviously to be thirsty is to demonstrate weakness, but only if that thirst cannot be reliably quenched. To be a thirsty alpha should translate into a nice cool drink, but in this age, while women may desire the alpha, there is an alternate route for her to demonstrate her sexual potency, that is obviously to frustrate his desire. As such she becomes divided between her desire to pair or hook up with a high value male (hypergamy) and the attendant narcissistic value of denying that same HVM. Under normal sexuality, this is part of the dance. Under the warped consent wars of feminist culture, her own sexual goals become increasingly separated from her narcissistic goals (as an alternate but celibate means to establish SMV). The latter path may also incentivise inauthentic displays of bisexuality or lesbianism, where the actual sexual goal is sacrificed in favour of the power of sexual denial.
    In other words the politics of flaking etc has always been around but now it is part of a newly ascendant politics of sexuality.

  37. …and worst/best case scenario, you invite several women to the same place figuring only one will show….and miracle of miracles, three show up. And your chances off ass go right thru the roof!!!

  38. take it into the bedroom…. i learned this from a buddy of mine i shared a condo with…….. have one too many beers, lose the urge to fuck, take her home, get her clothes off so she’s horny, and then chill… crack a beer, watch tv and she’ll be spinning….. even better offer her a dildo and sit back and watch the show for a while…..
    he took it so far that he’d pass out drunk and i’d end up with his frustrated girl hanging around… i’m too decent to fuck his girlfriends but they were up for it….. having been left high and dry they’d fuck a lamp post to try and re-validate themselves.

    1. That’s both hilarious and smart, but look out. Most instances of girls throwing objects at me involved me turning them down for sex.

  39. Alpha game is great for getting laid, that is all. The problem is that in treating her like a cum dumpster, she will treat you like a walking dildo. Pure animal lust gets old fast…and it’s the same with every woman. An intelligent man will carefully adjust his game accordingly, depending on what he is looking for.

  40. Sorry. I’ll say this again. How often would chicks flake on you if you were Channing Tatum? Would chicks flake on you if you were Shaun White or Chris Phelps?
    Do you think girls would flake on Robert Patterson?
    Can ANYONE correctly identify the point I’m trying to make here?

  41. ‘As men take the red pill, and begin to learn game, most go through
    several road bumps on their path from basement-dwelling nerd to
    panty-moistening Lothario’
    That will never happen with you pyjama boys. The only pants you’ll be wetting are your own haha
    “This is exactly why you see the hot chicks with ugly friends.”
    More stupid nonsense from an inexperienced pyjama boy who apparently never gets out of the cellar. The good looking girls all have good looking friends as the fugly ones have fugly friends. What planet are you from boy where you don’t see this every day?
    ” I came across as not giving a shit – because I didn’t.”
    Sure you do you pussy beggar you just won’t admit it to yourself. And you’re the type who will have 3 flakes if you made 3 “dates lol
    “It never occurred to them to flake on me because they could sense I wouldn’t care”
    You’re full of shit and nerd pyjama boys like you who keep saying you don’t care really do care. It’s only experienced sophisticated older men like myself who Really don’t care and would just pick up some girl at the bar if the flako didn’t show up if I wanted. It’s never actually happened to me in my entire life though, but if it ever had I would just send her a message saying that I’m sorry but I couldn’t make it due to an important call I had received from an aged aunt’s lawyer and had to discuss some important financial matter. It seems that she had died and left me her estate of $100m and we have to work out the probate details. Then I would never return any texts the flako sends me permanently :o)
    “whoever cares less in a relationship has all the power.”
    That’s going to hard for you pussy begging pyjama boys to do but by a certain age you are no longer pretending to not care. You really don’t care. You don’t care about anything people say or do either. It all becomes just boring trivial kiddiecrap that has no effect on you since you’ve heard it all a gazillion times before. That’s something that’s hard for some 20 something to understand who thinks every little minor thing is the end of the world. You may know on some level that that sweet good looking girl will get older and less sweet and hot some day but you really don’t know that from actually witnessing it. All you’ve seen is the beginning when she’s in her prime. While at a certain age you’ve seen the beginning, the middle and the end a thousands times. You haven’t seen her when she’s middle aged and just looks like every other middle aged female who would be invisible to you if you saw her on the street no matter how hot she was at 20. Just being an experienced older man and having experienced this makes you pretty jaded when dealing with the young ones that may interest you.You become very aware of every defect the young girl has right down to her taste in clothes and can sort of see how she’ll turn out, sooner then you can ever imagine.It really keeps things in a proper perspective. Unfortunately 20 somethings are suffering from testosterone poisoning(it’s sort of like beer goggles) where you believe the female is of a lot higher quality and value than she really is. Stop worrying about getting a “10” and all of that bullshit because a slim young nice average girl is just as good for fucking as the most beautiful woman on earth;you develop a tolerance to a beautiful female’s looks very quickly anyway and the next time you see a beautiful woman just remember that some guy got tired of fucking her.

    1. A man starts by pretending not to care.
      Then one day he realises he doesn’t care.

  42. Another way to deal with flaking, and far more Alpha when combined with the multiple dates tactic, is to dress her down after she has flaked. Call her out, tell her you’re looking for someone more mature and serious, and respectful of others, then move on.
    Do humanity a favor. Treat these “women” for what they are: immature, emotionally stunted girls who disrespect their own word and promises and disrespect the time and lives of others.
    A simple fact I have finally realized and accepted is this: As a man, you WILL have to speak directly to and re-program those areas in a woman’s character, personality, or habits where she is still a litte 8 year-old girl. Her father, her brothers, her uncles, and society at large failed her. If you want to get along with her for more than a date or two, you must be willing to recognize and correct immature behavior, excuse-making, petty lies, or poor behavior or choices without flinching, and at the same time demand maturity and respect, offer one or more more mature options, and immediately end the date or perform a ballsy backturn (which will floor her) when she shows resistance or rebellion against perfectly normal and acceptable expectations.
    Do the entire world a favor. Bitch them out. Ditch them. Maybe they’ll learn something.

    1. I totally agree… I put a forum up on but most people replied saying don’t reply and wait a week and try again. FUCK THAT… she will have no respect in you and u might get your dick wet but self respect and being assertive = self respect for you and her. Yes she might not give a shut but if u bump into her again, she knows your a man and not a beta like most men today.
      Just don’t act like a child, just tell her behaviour is unacceptable cause…
      “I have no time for games, cya” wait 4-7 days
      Sure if she gives you enough notice, try again or reschedule but if you know she is playing you, put the bitch in her spot and be blunt and direct!

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