When I was at school, Karate was by far the nerdiest “sport,” though even at the time I could understand its appeal to the pimply-faced, skinny-fat loser. It “teaches you to fight,” something every nerd is told to learn for their own safety. It is not a team sport, meaning there is not the competitive grading, team to beat every week, or physical requirements to perform a specific role. It is a parallel outlet, an anti-sport that ticks the co-curricular box but cultivates few, if any, of the virtues of other sports.
Replete with its own history, traditions and philosophy, eastern martial arts as practiced in the west is a scam. What with their air-punching pirouettes, bowing and scraping servile Orientalism, these “art-forms” bear little resemblance to any real physical combat. For westerners consumed by modernism, tapping in to a foreign tradition inevitably appeals to the outcasts, who don’t feel powerful or connected to their own history and martial culture.
I’ve always found something odd about white men who became eastern martial arts enthusiasts. It seemed they were play acting, that they were little boys that were allowed to put on a costume and learn their philosophy.
I understood wanting to learn how to fight, but the eastern religious message of emptiness, Tao, and relinquishing the “self” seemed so at-odds with the passionate, aggressive Teutonic Christianity that characterized my vision of the valiant knight, Roman legionnaire or champion. The servile, self-effacing submission seemed as foreign to my sense of strength, courage and manliness.
After much reflection on this, I have come to conclude that karate and similar eastern martial arts as practiced in the west have become exhibitionist LARPing for hand-flapping retards whose technique and methods are of little use in a real fight.
How could this be tested? Find examples of fighting without all the rules: MMA. Pure karate (or any narrow other code) is hopeless in these scenarios. Over the last few decades, codifying rules, points systems, and insurance regulation has repurposed these styles from skills used in actual hand-to-hand military combat to Chinese fighting-yoga. Here’s what a pure karate bout looks like:
While some of these girls exhibit some impressive flexibility and vocal range, what is inspired in me wouldn’t accurately be described as fear. Perfectly choreographed, pure Karate is to fighting what WWF is to wrestling, minus the fold-up chairs, big-titted blondes, and multi-color spandex outfits.
Any time I have spoken to someone who teaches or practices Karate, they give the same excuses as to why their students don’t engage in contact or win MMA competitions. As a defense, they claim that their “punches could kill” so they don’t do them because its unethical. Could their kiddy punches “kill” Wladimir Klitschko? What a joke.
When asked why don’t they clean up in mixed styles with multimillion dollar prizes and contracts, they use the safe defense of “this is an art,” or “it’s not for money or fame or glory,” despite the inordinate amount of purist snobbery and rivalry within and between codes and styles. McDojos abound, yet they hide from any objective standard of combat effectiveness by the false moral high ground of their token eastern “philosophy.”
“Someone with only a year of training in boxing and wrestling could easily defeat a martial artist of twenty years experience.”
–Bruce Lee
The truth is that boxing and wrestling are the two most useful skills to learn in a real life situation. What makes mixed styles realistic is that when a fight goes to the ground, if you are weak and don’t know how to grapple, it’s game over. As soon as an Asian martial artist gets too close or too far, they have no more skills in their set and skull crushing ensues.
If you want to practice discipline, co-ordination, and stretching exercises, then Karate may be for you. I’ve heard of great health benefits from Tai Chi, a slowed-down version of Karate which is a series of stretching and balance exercises for the elderly. Just don’t think that you are learning to fight or be a warrior. It could be very dangerous for you to assume your techniques can protect you from a brawling thug. For everyone else who wants to learn to fight, stay away from the dojo. Learn boxing, wrestling, or a mixed style like Krav-Maga.
Read More: Where Beta Males Are Polished To Perfection
What brand of ‘karate’ are you talking about? Kyokushin Karate is far from a ‘beta’ fighting art
I started out with Kyokushin overseas ,but back in the states it’s total garbage. A lot of Muay Thai schools in the U.S are crap too. Jiu jitsu has always been crap ,but modified Judo is solid. America is so feminized that it can’t help ,but neuter hard style martial arts, they’re even trying to do it to wrestling and boxing.
I’m an old Shorin-Ryu guy who cross trained in Lau Win Pai, Tan Su Do as well as boxing. I also had a LOT of real fights when I was a kid and a young man. I’ve even been stabbed (multiple times) in a couple of fights.
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I never wrestled, but I’ve practiced a lot of ground fighting.
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I’ve taken two knives and one revolver from attackers. Boxing (and probably wrestling) don’t prepare you for that.
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Boxing was helpful, with a lot of positive transfer to Shorin-Ryu, but Shorin-Ryu was hands down superior when i was stroking it out for real.
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The author seems to think MMA is the equivalent of a street fight. He is wrong.
Do those karate girls have a male or female Sensei? Hopefully the “oppressive patriarchy” mentality hasn’t infected Eastern martial arts when based in western countries.
“How could this be tested? Find examples of fighting without all the rules: MMA. Pure karate (or any narrow other code) is hopeless in these scenarios. ”
Tell that to Lyoto Machida, GSP or Chuck Liddell among others.
Machida, GSP, and Liddel all are excellent boxers, wrestlers, grapplers, etc. No pure karate person has done well in MMA in more than a decade, hell, they don’t even really exist anymore since they get that ass beat so hard.
You can say the same thing about pure grapplers. No pure grapplers have done well in MMA in more than a decade. You have to be a complete fighter to be a champ these days. And I think that’s a good thing.
But that doesn’t mean that “pure” karate or “pure” jiu-jitsu is useless. Far from it!
If Lyoto Machida, GSP, Van Damme or any world karate champion used “only” karate in a street fight – they would easily kill their opponents.
If any of the Gracie brothers used “only” jiu-jitsu in a street fight – they would easily kill their opponents.
And when I say kill, I mean that literally. That’s what these arts were designed for.
The only* place that pure karate or pure jiu-jitsu won’t work is in a top-level MMA match. But that’s only because your opponent is skilled in ALL areas.
* Okay, wouldn’t work either against a velociraptor or an Abrams tank but you know what I mean…
It might work against a velociraptor. They are smaller than the jurassic park implied, about 3 feet tall, and a good right cross would crush all the bones in their head.
Scratch the velociraptor then.
I stand by my final statement that neither Karate nor Jiu-Jitsu would work against a (fully armed) Abrams tank.
“No pure grapplers have done well in MMA in more than a decade.”
–Because they changed the rules. Previously, grapplers dominated, but that made for less-exciting TV. So they instituted the round system and greatly encouraged refs to stand guys up from grappling when there wasn’t any immediate action. Again, when you need more rules for your self-defense technique, it does not bode well for you.
“The only* place that pure karate…won’t work is in a top-level MMA match.”
—um, no. Your Karate and judo won’t work against any dude who regularly boxes, wrestles, or works out with better technques. If you took two identical fighters, trained one in Karate or judo, and the other in one of the other MMA techniques mentioned, Karate/judo dude would lose in a fight.
Just face it: karate and judo are way less valuable than other forms of self-defense.
Hard to argue with that!
MMA tried bringing in karate guys at the beginning, but they all were destroyed very early in the matches.Especially by grapplers. Grapplers owned early MMA in the U.S., but the promoters thought that wasn’t crowd friendly enough, so altered the rules to include rounds and more frequent standups from grapples.
But Karate simply doesn’t win. Muy Thai has emerged as the standout striking technique to learn, while BJJ and American wrestling have emerged as the dominant ground techniques.
Hmmm seems like you should define usefulness. Useful in MMA combat? Absolutely. Useful in one on one combat? Yep. Useful in actual street fight scenarios? Nope. Take a dude down onto the pavement and skilfully pass guard into mount…and get kicked in the face by his mate hiding somewhere. Skilfully slap a fully sick jumping armbar on a dude and wait for the tapout….and get kicked in the face by his mate hiding somewhere.
Real combat isn’t pretty. Eye jabs/gouges and plenty of good ol’ fashioned groin kicks and knees, then get the fuck outta there. Job done. You can pay me hundreds a month if you like.
Yeah that multiple opponent ground fighting business was rough. Back in my underground dojo days I’ve been bloodied from making assumptions. Basically an attack on one opponent must be brutal enough to take him out of the picture, this means no arm locks: use arm breaks instead. Rough stuff.
I prefer the Eddie Guerrero method of fighting:
“Cheat to win.”
Or Jessie Ventura’s motto:
“Win if you can. Lose if you must. But always cheat.”
Yep, basically I just do whatever it takes to win and walk away alive. Plus it doesn’t take years and thousands of dollars to know how to jab someone in the eye or kick their balls.
I already paid when the other guy kicked me in the balls and/or tried to stick his knife in my face.
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You are absolutely right.
Karate does have dirty tricks, like eye-pulling attacks. I’m not kidding.
keep in mind machida cross trained in muay thai to get more “full contact fighting” out of it. The only good karate styles have been ashira,shotokan and kyojushin just cuz they actually spar, and had success in k1.
Ewerton Teixera is the best karateka and he was floored by the reem.
GSP and Lidell hardly used karate to fight like machida. Everything they throw is boxing or muay thai, unless its a roundhouse kick.
MOre maybe coming like Kikuno or those 3 prospects that recently came to the ufc from japan, but I dont see them being world beaters.
Little tid bit for ya. Kickboxing was in invented in japan when Ishii and 2 other karatekas went to thailand to fight thais. 2 of them cross trained muay thai and won. The one that didnt lost.
To follow up alot of karates moves like hand traps,small joint manipulation grion strikes,etc. Are simple easy foulling moves that an untrained person can do. THis is why im not big on krav maga either. SInce its just womens self defense (nothin but groin strikes) with guns.
Hey Gustav? Please don’t hurt me…k?
I would not say that martial arts is “beta”.
It’s the way it’s handled in the west that makes it so beta.
As is typical in the “American way of handling things”, we stripped the “martial” out of it like adult-sized children and made a sport of it.
Kind of like these guys who are hunting fanatics and totally distracted from the real reason to have a gun. And liberty is falling down around their ears and as long as they can get that deer tag they are OK.
Or how about fighter aircraft formations over sports events. Anybody actually work with this equipment? I have. You know what? This shit is designed to really fuck people up yet there’s that formation of death machines and it’s all around a game and candy and little flags.
And I’m not asking that everybody be like all vaginal about everything and shy away from it. Far from it actually. I’m saying DO NOT forget what this stuff is really all about. Martial arts is about breaking collar bones, orbital bones, and knocking teeth out. Having a gun is all about force multiplication and standing up for your rights. And military equipment is all about raining death on an enemy. We need to stop being adult sized children.
When you train martial arts, it’s beta to be all sports about it. No you maintain the mindset around and involved with putting people into the hospital if not the grave.
When you pick up a gun you need to foster the intent that you are going to shoot someone, even when you might be merely putting it away, you need to switch your mind into that mode that never lets you forget it’s a a weapon.
And when you deal with the military, whether it be joining or of voting to send it somewhere, you keep in mind the horror on the other end, how the use of it requires no remorse (or there is no victory) and whether or not those on the receiving end deserve it.
So no it’s not beta, none of it is. This stuff was conceptualized centuries ago by men who would not hesitate to mess you up even for smirking at them. It’s only us, the adult sized mangina cuntocracies of the west, that beta-ize EVERTHING.
I don’t think he said martial arts was “beta” just Karate. MMA is a martial art.
Karate is just fine as a pastime sport/exercise. But if you find yourself back against the wall and need to live, you would need something else. MMA is not just one branch but more often a mix like Judo/boxing etc. Kickboxing would probably be the best layman self defence. One hard kick to the femur will almost always end fights without you going to prison. If you want or need to be a thug look into krav maga.
No best layman defense is MMA. The constant sparring, wrestling etc prepares you better than anything else. If you couple it with some training in pure self defense(how to avoid conflict in the first place, how to surprise the other guy, how to utilize the environment etc) you’re pretty well off. I’m more of a boxing guy myself because I just like that sport, but it’s not as effective as MMA. That doesnt mean it’s not effective of course.
I totally agree. Avoid conflict, always. But sometimes it’s inevitable. Who’s gonna end up on the floor? What damage are you willing to inflict? You want to risk 10 years in prison for some stupid broad? NO! So stick to the non leathal stuff like i said. Give the other guy a couple of low kicks, firm under the knee and that’s it. Job done!
If the matter isn’t serious enough to give all you’ve got, it isn’t serious enough to give low-kicks.
Never been impressed by MMA guys, cauliflower ears and fighting for what?
Kickboxing originated from Kyokushin Karate.
Really good comment, thanks.
Karate in the US is mostly a sport and as a sport it’s as useful as basketball or baseball. But it does have it’s roots in useful combat arts. Karate will teach you to generate power and to increase speed. Both are good.
you have to marry that to a warrior mindset for self defense. Practice full contact fighting at the very least, wearing pads/armor. Karate isn’t Beta. Like you said, it’s the people who beta-ize everything who’ve made it such.
Here is what I learned from several years of karate: how to deal with a punch to the head. It was good exercise and I met some great people, but it really didn’t approach fighting in a realistic manner. Now, I didn’t figure that out until I went through CQC in the armed forces, because I just didn’t have the perspective (remember how much you thought you knew when you were 21?).
By the way, spot on about the Western world beta-izing everything. That’s one of the reasons so many soldiers coming home from Afghanistan are having such a hard time of it. These guys grew up in a world that was, effectively, bubble wrapped lest it offend anyones sensibilities, then they get sent off to places that have REAL problems and they see REAL shit. They spend the better part of a year internalizing the crazy, then come back home and have to learn how to relate to a society that has it’s head shoved firmly up its own ass. The feminist powers-that-be tell them that looking at a woman the wrong (?) way is rape, but these guys have seen actual rape and murder and horror, and the disconnect they experience is proving to much for some.
My apologies for the rant, gentlemen.
The 1994 movie “Demolition Man” describes the American society you’re ranting against so perfectly that it’s frightening.
Yes!! I’ve been thinking that way for a number of years. Exactly the type of society we are headed to and I enjoy the fact that the story line was taking place in futuristic California. How fitting. I’m a big fan of Classic Hollywood but I just really get into Demolition Man.
Excellent points, man. I think the word “perspective” puts it all into…perspective. That’s the only issue with, say, McDojos, really. Because if you take ineffective-looking karate exercise, and clean it up, and pull out the accomplishment that is supposed to be there, you can kill somebody with Kara-Te. That wasn’t my school, but it helps to know some of their striking basics.
And yeah, the thing is that the Jewishness of our governments has the “goyim” (the cattle) at home, but you can’t be prey in any combat arms of any military.
The contrast is mind-boggling. And I think it’s a big part of maintaining this bullshit System we live under.
Methinks that in most Asian countries which practice martial arts don’t hand out black belts to six year olds either.
Every time I see a bunch of young betas in training come out of a shitty strip-mall McDojo in the Valley, I cringe.
My dad forced me to go to Tae-Kwon-Do when I was young. Didn’t learn a damn thing. As far as I can remember, the instructors were not guys I would ever care to emulate. They bragged about their black belts but looked like they hadn’t been laid in their lives.
If you want to learn how to fight, join a gym that actually grooms you for competitions. Shit, just get a bunch of guys together and start a fight club and start kicking each others’ asses. In addition, learn how to shoot and handle a gun safely.
The Bruce Lee quote is absolutely true.
One thing we can all agree on is there is never enough Bruce Lee.
Agreed. He was, IMHO, the true greatest of all time. A physical genius if there ever was one.
It’s true that he didn’t have much of a grappling game but that was way back in the 70s when BJJ had yet to prove itself on the world stage. If Bruce was still alive, he would be training BJJ for sure, like his protege Dan Inosanto who started training BJJ in his 60s and was the oldest person to ever earn a black belt under Jean Jacques Machado.
I don’t believe that Bruce would have had to learn any of these new martial arts that are out today. Why? Because his art would crush them. Easily. And BJJ is a Japanese variant medial art. Old school Chinese practitioners had bones of contention about adopting Japanese fighting styles.
Bruce did do grappling, and thought it was essential to training. Ain’t ya watched Fist of Fury (Chinese Connection)_ and Enter the Dragon?? Not to mention some grappling in Game of Death.
But I wouldn’t call him the ‘father of MMA’ as some folks have stated. He would have scoffed at that.
But Bruce broke the mold (Chinese traditions) by training in those systems.
What’s a ‘new’ martial art by the way?
“Someone with only a year of training in boxing and wrestling could easily defeat a martial artist of twenty years experience.”
–Bruce Lee
He didn’t need BJJ to be an accomplished grappler. Catch wrestling and Freestyle/Greco wrestling have everything you need (combined) to be an accomplished grappler. Not that I’m dissing BJJ, I’m just saying it’s not the end all be all of grappling.
“Boards… don’t hit back!”
Tae-Kwon-Do – is that the one where you stick one leg out in front of you and hop at your opponent to score a touch?
pretty much. sadly its the most practiced martial art.
THink its all the flashy kicks and music they do on stage to get kids enticed to do it. But really they just mix up acrobatics into it.
Plus most parents know nothing about martial arts and think they are all the same so they pick whatever
Fighting for people afraid to fight.
Don’t diss Tae Kwon Do! The ‘sport’ part of it is watered down here in the states, and the degree of skill is also watered down here.
I knew a Tae Kwon Do 7th dan (korean) who kicked a 200lb hog and cracked it’s ribs, killed it.
The art depends on the person!
Yes it’s called the chicken dance or some shit. It’s all just a big scam in the U.S. You have to pay tons of money every time you get to the next belt. They barely even teach you any punches or kicks until you’ve already wasted years of time and money on them, and even when they teach you how to punch and kick, it’s nothing you couldn’t have learned on youtube. It’s basically just a place for parents to send their bratty spoiled kids to thinking they’ll be disciplined.
lol
ha ha!
Karate is like dancing. Teenage girls are routinely churned out of American McDojos as black belts. Much of the instruction focuses on memorizing endless form routines punching and kicking the air, like in the video posted in this article. I don’t think anybody really takes karate seriously. Especially when a girl brags about how she could kick some guys ass because she has a black belt in karate, everybody kind of just chuckles and disregards it.
I can’t help but laugh at anything physical a woman does because you know deep down they believe they’re more than capable of taking a man.
Might be true, but this particular dojo is the most kickass, alpha and plain out mysoginist dojo I’ve ever seen !
http://www.dealerknows.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/dojo.png
John Kreese, FTW.
Did he act as the pilot in Rambo III?
Rex-Qwon-Do
misogynist? are you kidding? I bet those dudes got laid regularly.
And your point is ?
Misogyny means you ‘hate women’.
You don’t fuck something you hate. you may disregard them, disrespect them, ignore them, harass them, abuse them, use them, silence them, or even harm them… but unless actual hatred of women is expressed, it is not ‘misogyny’
But nice attempt at entryism, you feminist fuckstick. Your language gives you away.
Do you see any women there ? No women and I like it. That’s why I said that. This dojo would never be accepted in a movie today. And for me being feminist ? lol. You must be new here.
Yea thats the correct definition of misogyny but the factual usage of the term is anything that denies women access to male spaces or anything that criticize women, no matter how justified it is.
No, that’s your feminist, warped version of the word that you use to attempt to belittle men.
No women except you, cunt.
Im done with you Mr Simpleton
You were done two posts ago, jackass.
No one cares, faggot.
U did since you replied..welcome to my harem, bitch !
Now sweep the leg Tom. You have a problem with that?
But..I can beat that guy !..
Y’all are just bad at karate. The real karate masters:
HAIDOUKEN! SHORYUUUKEN! TATSUMAKI SENPUUUUU KYAKU!
and the ultimate….
SHUN GOKU SATSU…
All those fuckers combined don’t have a prayer against just one of your run-off-the-mill strong agile dexterous beautiful intelligent confident woman
She looks like she’s getting ready to do a take-down!
Shit… Not going to lie, I wouldn’t want to wrestle that behemoth!
Damn. Y’all gonna need a Big Game Elephant Gun to take that thing down. Bring extra rounds.
12 gauge solid slug. 🙂
?? How the heck does one triangle choke a no necked beast?
Looks like someone planted a head on a pile of shit
Woof
All those fuckers combined don’t have a prayer against just one of your run-off-the-mill strong agile dexterous beautiful intelligent confident woman.
muh triggers!
Ha ha. Loved Cobra Kai as a kid. “Sweep the leg.”
A wrestler goes up to a Krav Maga practioner and says “How’s your ground work?” to which he replies “Oh it’s great, my landscaper just worked on it today!”
Straight out of a Grazie affiliate’s mouth haha.
Anyone got an opinion on pros and cons of Greco-Roman Wrestling vs. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu vs. Japanese Jiu Jitsu???
I like Mauy Thai (and eventually I’ll look into boxing) as a standing base for myself as a novice, but obviously without any ground skills I know I’d get my ass kicked if someone just straight up tackles me.
Go with BJJ. Submission wrestling is also great and most grappling schools also cross train wrestling.
JJJ is unfortunately impractical due to their watered-down randori. They don’t spar with any aliveness whatsoever. The moves are legit (after all BJJ was derived from JJJ) but the lack of proper sparring means you won’t be able to use those same moves on the street against a resisting opponent.
There may be a handful of JJJ schools in the US and Europe that now mimic BJJ with serious sparring. But they might be tough to find. With most BJJ schools, you can’t go wrong. The standards, for now at least, are all top notch and you will do serious fighting every single day.
First, MMA is a sport also, just like karate. It just has a few less rules. I couldn’t do 70 percent of the moves in my martial art if I were in a MMA competition. However, my Master only teaches MMA fighters because they usually have the dedication to really follow through with the art. Second, I can understand some of the authors sentiments, even though I think he is generalizing a whole lot based on his own narrow experiences. However, many of the karate dojos now Are Terrible. I would never take my child to one. Western Karate is 100 percent commercialized, its all about selling belts and other karate equipment. However, a Master in any martial art, who has reached the level of true artist, of true martial inspiration and creativity, will be hard to deal with. I
No. I beat the crap out of a former Taewkondo Olympian in less than 60 seconds and several other “masters of their art”….The saddest experience being the Tai chi guy. “Artist” is the problem, they are all trash. Unless your a master of violence and have the power to back it up, then all the fancy moves don’t mean dick.
Ok. I guess I must be a little more specific in what I meant by “Master in any martial art”. I’m not talking about random students of these arts that most people come across. I’m not talking about so called Master’s who have created their own titles and certifications. I am talking about a Master in the sense of someone who has truly come to embody the principles of their respective martial art, which takes many years. Even Boxers know that it takes 10 years After turning pro for a boxer to truly reach the peak of their development in the sport. A master is someone through their actions can answer the famous Bruce Lee questions- “What is the best technique? No technique” “What is the best form? No form”.
Krav Maga on the other hand:
I am unsure whether Krav Maga is a legit martial art or whether it is just a faddish form as Karate was in the 80s-90s.
I’ve always been interested in learning to fight. I suppose the best bet is a tried and true simple and effective approach.
Agreed.
I would also, sadly, put judo in this area of “beta” martial arts, but several notches above.
At first, it does not seem so. Judo is, essentially, a form of wrestling.
So it would seem to be based on ability and usefulness, and therefore
not attract or cause betaness. The best fighter wins, right?
Except that’s not the case of judo.
If you ever take judo (and please don’t), and you have non-judo experience (as I did, as a high school wrestler), you will often attempt a technique you learned
in another style.
And you will hear a phrase: “That’s not judo.”
So you will naturally ask,”Oh, it’s illegal?” And they will say, “No, it’s
just not judo.” When you try to parse this meaning, the instructor will
get mad at you for questioning the idea. There are things in judo that
are “illegal” and then there things that are “not judo.” The two are not the same.
The meaning is that while it may not be illegal, it isn’t “meant” to be in
the grand “philosophy” of judo, and therefore you can’t do it. Like it’s
fucking figure skating.
That doesn’t make sense to anyone with a functioning brain. We understand
“rules” of sports, but if something isn’t against the rules, it is ok to
do. For example, Notre Dame’s football team in the early 20th Century
had a “backfield shift” formation pre-snap that confused opponents and
gave Notre Dame an advantage. So what did college football do? It
outlawed moving pre-snap by certain players. It outlawed the play. It
didn’t make some rule that “it’s not illegal, it’s just not football.” It said it’s illegal.
Having rules that are clear when something’s illegal makes innovation easier.
And if a rule is bad, you work to change it. Not in judo; everything is
static by some mystical “it’s not judo” philosophy. In short, it’s a
static artform, not true grappling.
Judo prides itself on working totally off throwing other people off balance. It strongly discourages as “not judo” people using their strength and body weight in judo. This attracts yahoos, betas, and feminists, who all think “finally, I don’t have to orry about basic physics and body size and strength when in a rough situation!” It fools people into thinking those things don’t matter in a real world fight.
In judo, you will also run into an overwhelming number of what I can
call “beta bullies.” Feminists, beta boys who gave up LARPing, old
dudes with chips on their shoulders because they never got promoted out
of low management—-basically losers who use their superiority on the
judo mat to bully others to make up for their own shortcomings. It’s
pathetic—you’ll ask a higher belt/instructor for assistance on a
technique, and instead of showing you, they’ll start mocking you for not doing it like them, and when they show you once, and you still don’t
get it, walk away. This wasn’t a one-time incident; I went to judo
schools off and on for 3 years, thinking that I kept running into exceptional assholes; it turns out the exceptions were the rules.
I had one black belt scream at me for refusing to continue to spar one day because my leg was injured. He screamed at me like he was a drill sergeant in the army and I was a private conscript from the hinterlands of Russia.
I reminded him that I was a dude paying a $60/month for this and not
his slave, and I walked (or rather hobbled out) and never came back.
(His school disappeared about a year later).
The women black belt judokas are the worst. Feminists all, they get all cocky about beating up men, and indeed they can in a strictly-enforced judo match—-unless you use a “non-judo” but totally legal move on them that involves using your body weight. Then they get mad and pissy and tell you that if you did that in real life—e.g. a double leg takedown taught as a basic to MMA fighters/wrestlers—that they could have “broken your neck.” In other words, little Feminist judoka could take out a large MMA fighter/NCAA wrestler if he tried
that.
The mind boggles at such ridiculousness.
Now, to be fair, judo techniques DO work when you do use them, and judo matches DO offer some sort of useful training in grappling/self-defense —it’s still more useful than modern karate— but it’s limited by the fact of this mysterious “non-judo” philosophy and the fact that practitioners aren’t learning how to combat body weight/strength differences. Most of the techniques, furthermore, that ARE useful are taught in jiu-jitsu and wrestling and MMA schools, so you don’t have to waste your time in judo school with beta bullies.
I’d say to anyone considering a martial art, steer clear of judo. Jiujitsu, wrestling, and MMA classes are much better for grappling. I have yet to hear yet of MMA fighters winning championships based on their judo techniques.
Sorry but that’s just retarded. Completely and utterly retarded. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
I’ve trained jiu-jitsu and various arts for decades, including a few years at one of the top UFC feeder schools in the US, boasting several famous past and current champs. And I can tell you without a doubt that judo is DEVASTATING at the top levels. Some of the most brutal champs of all time have judo backgrounds (Fedor Emelianenko for e.g.).
The toughest guys I ever fought had a judo base, with cross training in wrestling, jiu-jitsu and boxing. But it was their judo that got me.
After you’ve been slammed to the ground at 50 miles and hour, I can guarantee that your opinion of judo will change instantaneously (if you wake up).
Ask this girl to show you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronda_Rousey
People like Fedor and Rousey are freaks and Fedor had devastating punching combinations. Judo in general is sketch. I won a judo tournament on a lark after I found out you were allowed a little bit of time to try to submit your opponent in Judo tournament if you pulled guard.
Fedor and Rousey are not freaks, unless by that you mean supremely athletic specimens who are world-class judoka.
Yes, Fedor has great striking ability but both he and Rousey win primarily with their judo.
You won a judo tournament. What level? White belt?
Don’t make me laugh. Even when the Gracies were doing their famous challenges, they LOST to judokas in judo tournaments. They did win in NHB matches against those same opponents but NOT in judo matches.
So if the top BJJ masters of the 80s and 90s couldn’t beat Judo guys at their own game, I will take your Judo tournament win with a huge grain of salt (or make that a 50 lb bag of salt)
“Even when the Gracie’s were doing their famous challenges, they LOST to
judokas in judo tournaments. They did win in NHB matches against those
same opponents but NOT in judo matches.”
Thank you for proving my point. As I stated, judo is only the most efficient in when judo rules are enforced. When there is no holds barred, however, pure judo loses, and loses badly. You might as well argue hockey fighting is just as valuable as boxing training for self defense because professional hockey player can beat professional boxers when they fight on the ice in skates. Everyone can see the holes in that argument, as in yours when you claim that judo is equal to BJJ because the BJJ’s can’t win judo tournaments.
I never said that judo is equal to BJJ, only that in a judo tournament BJJ will not generally win, as was at least implied by BlutEhren.
“judo is only the most efficient in when judo rules are enforced”
Of course. But the same can be said of any martial art, including tournament BJJ.
And I train BJJ, so I am not propping up Judo as a practitioner of that art; Only stating that Judo is way underrated.
“Of course. But the same can be said of any martial art, including tournament BJJ.”
–We’re talking for self-defense. BJJ has proven that outside of BJJ tourneys—i.e. in no holds barred or MMA—it wins. It’s effective. judo does not.
judo is very OVERrated as a self-defense technique, much like karate; every so often a hollywood TV show or movie will have a “lethal weapon” type character who’s got a black belt in “judo” or “karate” because those are houshold names. (Austin Powers’ movies made fun of this, when Ausin’s go-to attack technique was called (nonsensically) the “judo chop!”).
Bottom line: if it doesn’t win in MMA, it aint worth years of your life to learn it. Your life is short; concentrate on the most efficient ways to protect yourself, not the ones you see in Hollywood movies.
(rofl) right. I still remember going up against a Marine ‘Judo master’ (actual instructor, 30 years experience) with me having barely 3 months of boxing experience (and asome wrestling in high school)
During our little ‘exhibition’ he had to keep making up new rules because I was beating his ass. no face punches, no knees, no pins, no joint control…
Judo always has been a joke, and all of your apologism and posturing about a judo ‘base’ (just incidentally layering it with actually useful martial arts) doesn’t change the fact that it’s a feel-good excercise for fat bankers and soccer moms who want to feel ‘powerful’.
Okay Brigadon. Whatever you say.
You beat a “Judo Master” using 3 months of boxing experience.
Right, keyboard warrior.
Go visit Gene Lebell, an actual Judo Master. Use your boxing and whatever else you think you know. He’s 82 now and he will still slam you to the ground and choke you unconscious. I’ve seen him do that live to professional fighters in their 20s and 30s. He’s been choking out boxers since 1963, in the first ever sanctioned MMA fight in the US.
Or better yet, just go back to your PS3 or wherever else you get your fight experience from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_LeBell
I wouldn’t say a joke, but it definitely has a lot less value in terms of self-defense than the BJJ/wrestling/boxing/Muy Thai disciplines. Those 4 have proven in MMA boughts to win, whilst no one has one using pure judo.
Yes, and we’re all sure the world’s greatest black belt karate champion
could beat us all up. That doesn’t mean that it’s the best value for
martial artists, self-defense, or the like. The purest test is MMA, and
in MMA, no karate experts or judo experts win; guys who concentrate on
the other martial arts do.
Gosh you’re an angry autistic dude.
I’ve run into guys like you in my practice—you’re the type who gets
into fight with another dude because you’re a know it all who demands
everyone agree with you or else. One one of your brothers get kicked out
a casino because he “knew” casinos had to give him a tax form “under
the law” for his wins/losses, but the floor staff, pit bosses, and
eventual manager told him he was wrong and that no such law existed in
the state. He became so irate with staff for contradicting him he
threatened them, at which point he was escorted out (bonus: dude talked
all night before hand about how he was a “professional gambler” with
“years of experience.”)
in fact, you sound exactly like the type
of beta bully in judo that I was talking about—napoleons of the dojo,
petty tyrant types. Do you have a belt in judo? It would explain your defensiveness a lot.
Do you even watch MMA? You don’t know what the heck you’re talking about.
I’m angry and autistic?
My brother got kicked out of a casino and….pit bosses, taxes, manager….WTF?!
I’m a Napolean of the dojo?
Yeesh. Whatever.
And no, I don’t have a belt in Judo. I have belts in BJJ, TKD, Karate and Muay Thai, with cross training in Judo and wrestling, tournament experience in all arts and several amateur MMA matches under my (non judo) belt.
The Navy son, ’93. But please, make it personal, since you have so much more anecdotal authority than I do (laugh).
In my personal, admittedly anecdotal experience, I have yet to conflict or spar with a single experienced ‘Judoperson’ who has any real ability to defend themselves under any sort of real-world and most sorts of semi-regulated combat.
Don’t get me wrong, any sort of combat training can help tone your body and focus your mind, and being in shape and ‘ready’ for a fight is half the fight right there. Unfortunately, The other half is reality, and that reality is that the winner is almost always the person that strikes ‘firstest’ and hardest… Something Judo is specifically ill-equipped to encourage.
Most real world altercations are puffery and blustering, two people egging each other on until one of them finally throws a blow or grapple. When you strike first, and strike hard, before you opponent has nerved himself or herself up for the fight to come, it is generally over and dealt with before Judo would even have a chance to be considered.
This is the best form of self-defense.
I hear you Navy boys dock at every port… 😉
Belts in Muay Thai? Are you sure?
When possible. Some places are just not very friendly to spreading the breed around, I am afraid…. when that happens, frustrated sailors fight each other.
“Yes, and we’re all sure the world’s greatest black belt karate champion could beat us all up. That doesn’t mean that it’s the best value for martial artists, self-defense, or the like.”
Exactly this. The true value of a martial arts isn’t assessed by asking “can the world’s best champion of martial art X beat most people up?” but by asking “can the AVERAGE practitioner of X properly defend himself?”, and karate is woefully lacking in that regard. Most people won’t (be able to) invest 20 years in some martial art just to protect themselves, but you make someone practice boxing+BJJ/some grappling art for 1 year and he’ll already be nicely equipped to deal with many fighting situations that’ll be thrown at him.
Why do people insist on repeating this dogma? This is simply not true.
Everyone on the internet is a badass.
Everyone on ROTC is a trained MMA fighter than could kill Fedor or Anderson Silva without a problem.
What do you think would be the purest test then?
I agree that MMA has gotten less pure with the round system and constant stand-ups, but it still remains in my mind. I would not mind if they removed ALL rules—including eye gouging, ball kickling, alloiwing guys to continue with broken bones, etc. —leaving but one for humanity’s sake—having the ref stop the fight when a guy is helpless/out.
But why do you think it’s not the purest test today? I’m curious as to what you would think is the purest.now.
Blinko, you sound less and less believable. You’re claiming a huge
variety of belts in a variety of disciplines, but even getting good in
one is difficult without being a full timer. You’re apparently billy
badass with a bug up his ass because I said judo is pretty beta. .
And
you keep moving the goal poasts on judo. I first stated it wasn’t very
useful/efficient as a self-defense technique, and it’s culture is beta. I
also noted that while it did have some self-defense value, that value
could be had for a lot less hassle and with a lot better context in
other grappling. You flipped out and said I was insane, and that once I
got “thrown at 50 miles per hour” I’d see how bad ass judo was.
Well,
I’ve been thrown in judo any times, and its pretty obvious that it
still sucks for most self defense–I would not have been thrown 80-90%
of the time had I been allowed to do the most protective thing—get low
and defensive.. I’ve also been body checked hockey games and beach
volleyball games (the latter illegally), but I wouldn’t recommend either
sport for self-defense. Nor would I recommend baseball, though I ended
up in collisions and knocked catchers over a few times, knocking the
ball loose. None of these sports offer efficient self-defense training.
Nor does judo. The rules of all 4 sports limit the self-defense
capabilities.
What’s more, judo creates a false reality that
many beta types buy into—that “all you need” is the techniques and
your self-defense is ok, that “size matters not”,. That’s dangerous and
very bad self-defense philosophy to teach people—size and strength
always matter, and once someone uses them, your judo techniques become
extremely limited. The feminazi black belts I ran into were in the most
danger, as they had the most “i’m a tough grrrl whose never actually
been hit” attitude I’ve seen on a woman in real life. All these women
needed for a lifetime of pain was one too many drinks and some FOB dude
whose not letting a woman talk disrespectfully to him. Bad, bad
self-defense philosophy, and thus a bad value.
Then you tried to
say that Gracie’s couldn’t win judo tournaments, which “proves” judo is
worth it. Again, that’s like claiming that because Mike Tyson can’t
play hockey well or fight well on skates, that proves that hockey
fighting is just as valuable as boxing training for self-defense.
Absolutely no relation; Gracie also can’t win a chess match against Deep
Blue, but that doesn’t mean anything about chess’s self-defense
capabilities.
Then you’re either deliberately pretending not to
understand my arguments or are flat out too stupid to get them and
metaphors. And also making wild claims about your martial arts training
in so many disciplines you sound like a dude from a movie.
So, in light of all that….lighten up, Francis. 😉
No kidding, right? I once beat up 3 bouncers at the most exclusive nightclub in New York (at the same time!), and then Taylor Swift blew me on the street corner right in front of them!
Somehow MMA has gotten this reputation as being the most “realistic” martial art. Essentially, this was how it was sold back in the day (when only biting and eye gouging were outlawed) but the main reason people think it is realistic is because they “go to the ground”. You do not want to go to the ground in a street fight and you do not want to wrestle anyone in the street. Most street fights I have seen involved groups of people and the guys who “went to the ground” got stomped by the guys standing up.
Wrestling is not a good test for how well you would do in a street-fight and lets be honest, MMA is mostly wrestling. I think you are better off with arts that keep you on your feet and teach you how to get out of holds rather than try to put you in them.
Not entirely true. A great many mma fighters have Kyokushin karate experience.
The “take it to the ground” stuff only works in MMA because there’s no biting, eye gouging, or testicle grabbing.
The instant you start controlling a street thug in close quarters with grappling, guess what: he’s going to bite a chunk out of you, maybe bight off a finger. Or stick a thumb in your eye.
Well said. That’s what I tell people. Someone grabs hold of me in the street I’m biting chunks out of them.
“judo backgrounds” is misleading. Judo techniques can be useful—as I stated originally–but most are taught in other grappling disciplines as well. And judo’s techniques are borrowed from jiu-jitsu—judo as a sport was a developed from it. Except jiu-jitsu–especially brazilian JJ—does have this retarded “not judo” philosophy. In short, an expert judo practitioner (i.e. a black belt) is going to lose against an expert BJJ/JJJ/College-elite wrestler–as MMA has proven.
In short, judo teaches you too limited a technique range in too poor an environment. Not worth it; better self-defense techniques are available.
“In short, an expert judo practitioner (i.e. a black belt) is going to lose against an expert BJJ/JJJ/College-elite wrestler–as MMA has proven.”
Uh. No. MMA has not proven that.
Firstly:
MMA did prove (consistently), that when opponents are utilizing their “pure” art, e.g. pure Judo or pure karate, with no cross-training in other arts – that BJJ *generally* comes out on top, at least if the first 7 or so UFC events could be considered the final word. That’s one reason why I primarily train BJJ.
Secondly:
In the most famous Judo vs BJJ match of all time, between Masahiko Kimura and BJJ co-founder Helio Gracie, Judo won decisively:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masahiko_Kimura
Thirdly:
No JJJ master has ever fought in MMA as far as I know. If they did, they would lose. They don’t spar in JJJ. They only practice a watered-down, unrealistic version of Randori.
Fourthly:
In pure Judo vs pure collegiate wrestling (again no-cross training, just the pure art) Judo comes out on top due to submissions (arm bars, chokes). I’ve seen these matches with my own eyes, training at one of the top UFC training camps in the country. Olympic wrestlers typically got the take down against Judo black belts. But those judo black belts *always* won the matches by using submissions – often choking the wrestlers unconscious. Of course they were all there to cross train, so no one got butt hurt over it. Everyone exchanged techniques.
So finally – It is your arguments, coupled with lack of real-world experience, which are invalid. Sorry. But dats the facts.
lol! Now we have the following arguments from internet tough guy:
1. What top judokas didn’t participate, and why haven’t they come to dominate since? Since we have an abundance of leagues now, you would think Gracie couldn’t keep them all out now. But BJJ still is the major art form people learn.
2. one match proves nothing; cumulative does. BJJ has proven its worth in MMA; judo has not. Furthermore, you’re talking about 1940s BJJ v. 1940s judo. BJJ has evolved since then, while judo has devolved—it has lost some of the JJJ techniques and viciousness of the time.
3. JJJ? I didn’t argue JJJ was good today for self-defense, but BJJ.
4. This is laughable. “I’ve seen these matches with my own eyes, training at one of the top UFC training camps in the country.”
Yeah, sure, you (billy master bad ass) were at a top UFC training camp where all these judo dudes are just whipping the crap out of college wrestlers based on pure judo technique, and yet NONE of these pure judo dudes ever start dominating IRL UFC, while the wrestlers go on to become money makers. Yup, sure, all these judo dudes are just hiding in the wings, secretly This is like the Rolling stone article about the gang rape—you’ve got this secret insider info that magically has been covered up too well by the TPTB.
Every time you start trying to defend your position on judo you’re making yourself less believable as an authority. You get that, right? Next you’ll be claiming you bench 400lbs and beat Brock Lesner in a sparring match which actually caused his injury that made him retire from MMA. You quite frankly sound exactly like one of those beta bully dudes from my judo days, except they would tell stories about they were in the special forces or beat up a bouncer twice their size or work as hired body guards for celebrities when they come into town. The stories were hilarious as definite attempts to sooth their ego and puff up their authority while only proving just how much they were NOT the men they claimed they were. Kinda like some of my clients now—guys who brag about street tough they are, then you get witnesses to the fight who talk about your client getting his ass (rightfully) beat in self-defense.
To say an art is useless is ….useless. It has a use to someone who has truly mastered themselves in that art. You’re all comparing judo to Jiu Jitsu and to MMA (yeesh!). If a boxer fought an MMA person with only boxing ‘rules’…with equal skills levels in both…..who would win?
Case closed.
Being thrown, being taken off your feet, no longer being in control of your body, is terrifying.
Article written by an obvious ‘expert’, Eastern martial arts a joke? I’ve been doing both Muay Thai and Wing Chun for 8 years now really couldn’t help but giggle at the content. I think what you meant was karate is a beta sport in the west. Some of the sparring partners I get at my city hall gym here in Japan do karate, I definitely wouldn’t call them beta.
Look your either a grappler or a puncher. Its like the endo and ecto of fighting. Few people can combine wrestling and boxing in an effective way. I picked grappling and can say for sure half the people in BJJ are straight up psycho alpha.Like theres an actual chance you could die at a practice. Punching a guy is less personal, than a choke. They call it submission for a reason.
This is so messed up.
Karate, Judo, Kung fu, etc. are martial “arts”. Big focus on ARTS. They were created in other times, were people would dedicate themselves to it like a good pro to his career.
Krav maga, Systema, Tae Kwon Do (ITF) are all millitary systems. they were designed just a few years ago. (compared to the other martial arts)
I’m not mentioning Capoeira because I don’t know much about it.
And MMA is just about a mix of the moves of martial arts.
I don’t live in USA, so I don’t know exactly how this things are going on there, but I heard a lot about this mcdojos. They exist, and they don’t teach the art, they just have karate written somewhere. If you don’t feel like your instructor could leave someone bigger than him cold in the ground, then you should get the hell out of that dojo.
If you want fast results in self-defense, go with the fighting systems. If you want something more complex, deep and spiritual, go with the martial arts.
Martial arts are not just about “knowing how to fight”
Finally, that’s not a karate bout, that’s a kata. It’s like comparing caligraphy with writing a book.
And keep the alpha-beta concept out of this. Doesn’t matter the path you take, if you can beat an average guy’s ass/protect yourself or the people around you using the knowledge you learned in a dojo, you have higher value than the guy who can’t
(Sorry for my english, i’ts not my native language)
your english is decent. easy to understand what you’re saying. i hope my writing looks as good in any of the foreign languages i know.
What? Your English is better than a number of people who only speak/write English. You write well enough.
There’s a pretty big difference between “hippie”/old people tai chi, and the real shit in chen village.
As for karate, check out kyokushin or enshin.
Exactly.
Article needs way more qualifiers.
I would hardly call this beta:
Granted the vast majority of karate and Tae Kwon Do schools in the west are utter junk. But in every major western city you can find at least a half-dozen serious karate dojos. A true Karateka could easily maim or even kill an average “thug” with his bare hands and feet. Of course if you put that same Karateka against a professional MMA fighter then he wouldn’t win *unless* he has also seriously cross trained in jiu-jitsu or submission wrestling (like Lyoto Machida).
In the early days of MMA it’s true that karate guys didn’t do too well. But once they cross trained in ground, they do fine. By the same token, all those pure grapplers who did amazing in the 90s would fail in today’s UFC. At the top level these days your skills have to be complete in all areas.
I’ve trained for twenty plus years in various forms of karate, tae kwon do, kickboxing and jiu-jitsu. None of them are “beta” forms of combat unless YOU are a limp wristed beta and bring that mind set to your training.
Again, there are a TON of terrible McDojos out there. This article was probably written with those in mind, as they unfortunately represent the majority of the combat arts in the west. But not all schools are like that. And each art, even without cross training, could be a lethal form of self defense if (a) you train at the right school and (b) bring the correct mindset
Neither one of these guys used any sort of defence such as arm blocks and leg checks. Nothing to see here, put either one of these ‘martial artists’ in their respective weight-classes in the UFC or Bellator and even the lowest of low ranked fighters would eat them for breakfast.
And if you want to cuddle with the babes in the last photo then take up Ballroom Dance. The tough guys will watch plaintively as you throw them around the dance floor. At least that was my experience.
I would say the litmus test for a fighting style is to look at the practitioners. Go to a standard dojo and chances the black belts look as though they’re also the part of the school’s chess team. Sure there’s the rare karate dojo that take their style seriously and could probably easily kick the crap out of you but they’re hard to find.
On the other hand, go to places where boxer and kickboxers are trained and chances are you’ll see their best students as the type who could beat the crap out of you without breaking a sweat.
I never forget the first time I fought a cousin of mine with my learned Martial Arts know-how, that I had acquired the years before as a teen. The fight lasted 10 seconds, because my cousin was a football hooligan street-fighter and had been in street battles since 13 with roughly several hundred fights behind him. He just caught my leg moves and punched hard.
Also a good friend of mine was something like a combat wunderkind. He took part in mixed combat competitions and easily beat black belts of various fighting styles as an 18 year old.
“my cousin was a football hooligan street-fighter and had been in street
battles since 13 with roughly several hundred fights behind him”
—there’s an expression in wrestling that all you need is 1 take down, 1 escape, and 1 pin.
My h.s. wrestling coach would annually recruit the biggest senior football players who’d never wrestled before to fill out our roster, and teach them to just football tackle the guy (1 take down), stand up (1 escape), and then a basic pin. Nothing else. Literally nothing; he would send them out for water when he went over more complex moves for the rest of us. These dudes weren’t league champs, but they were all around .500 by the end of the year, got an extra varsity letter, had some fun, and got our team some points.
In a no holds barred fight, you can add 1 good strike combo on your feet and 1 stance/blocking technique, but that’s about it. Everything else is point scoring and/or stuff only the super-advanced should bother with; it’s just for show and the movies. In short, your cousin knew the instinctive right way to win a 1-on-1 fight while you were unfortunately taught a lot of garbage that looks good on video but doesn’t do squat.
I used to do karate and got black belt, but I was/am weak as fuck. I’m thinking of doing BJJ Brazillian Jiu Jitsu now is this a legit martial art or beta like karate?
BJJ is very legit. I would also advise a good striking art, since it’s just not true that “every fight goes to the ground”. Good stand up guys train not to go to the ground, and good grapplers always go to the ground. You really want a good mix of both, and then specialize in one.
A lot of people who train in today’s Japanese martial arts don’t train for self defence or MMA style kind of competition. In fact, the primary aim of all the modern Budo arts like Karate, Judo and Aikido is not to actually focus on combat but to focus on discipline and morals along with asthetics. This was probably due to the post WW2 mentality which attempted to remove any form of nationalistic and combative elements from these arts. So yes in many ways, the author of this article is right. Training in Karate isn’t going to turn you into a warrior that can beat the crap out of any attacker coming at you.
However, calling Karate a beta art is ridiculous as well. I’ve met Kyokushinkai and even Shotokan Karate practitioners whom I definitely do not want to antagonize or fuck around with. There are elements in Karate that can make someone a dangerous person to mess with. And kata training is not all useless. If supplimented with free or even limited sparring, its quite useful. It does take time and patience to learn and apply the movements though and if your intention is to fight in MMA style competition and win prizes, then Karate definitely isn’t your starting point. Boxing and BJJ would be the most ideal.
Karate has rich history that originates from Okinawa and in fact, some writers and practitioners have said that Karate shouldnt be called a martial art. It should be classified as a “mingei” which means folk’s art in Okinawan. Meaning that its heritage is a similar to traditional arts like pottery or weaving. Studying the history of these arts isn’t beta and what separates long time Karate practitioners from the vulgar masses out there.
Morals, aesthetics, the chi flowing and all that bullshit in a word is… useless. When a Kimbo Slice looking motherfucker emerges from a dark alley, the last thing I’m thinking is how the aesthetics of my stance or pose looks, or the ‘moral’ thing to do, anyone with a pulse is thinking ‘self-preservation’ by any means. Karate is pretty fucking beta. I’d even take an amateur Greco-Roman wrestler in a constant against a Karate guy anyday. I mean if you can’t get a guy off you, you have no means of getting back up and eventually he can position himself in a way to wail on you with fists or snap something. Not all useful in real life situations, there’s always the chance you may get lucky by facing someone who can’t fight and weighs 140 Ibs, a lucky KO or just carrying a gun. Other than that, Karate along with its cousin Kung Fu is a sure way of getting your face rearranged.
Don’t forget: NASCAR is a Martial Art too!
Tai Chi and Karate aren’t related systems. I did Tai Chi for several years. Tai Chi Chuan loosely translates into the humble “Supreme Ultimate Fist”.
It’s sad because you’re absolutely right about 99.99% of what is taught in the west. Even within China, since the revolution, Tai chi has been turned into a dance.
However I was lucky enough to find a pre-revolution line of teachers who, in fact are adept fighters. Ironically, they call themselves “boxers” and refer to sparring as “boxing”. It can be the real deal but unless you’re sparring regularly, it’s airy-fairy artsy shit exactly as the author said.
My teacher will spar anyone and tell them to do anything they want to do – but sadly, cadet branches of the family have begun the choreography. Hey, it’s easier to look impressive than be impressive and the West is all about that isn’t it?
umm…no Karate is not beta at all. Certain sub-arts in Karate are beta as you describe but usually those involve the art not the fighting/defense. The dance, the females waving their hands as you describe yes but not Karate in general.
It can also be a good general sport to practice as a beginner before you get (because you want to) into the badass shit…the Korean martial arts.
“How could this be tested? Find examples of fighting without all the rules: MMA. Pure karate (or any narrow other code) is hopeless in these scenarios.”
MMA is highly regulated, hence why (as far as I know) not many people have died participating in the sport.
Karate does not take into account the RULE that you have to wear gloves.
Karate does not take into account the RULE that you cannot poke, prod, jab or the opponent in the eye.
Karate does not take into the RULE that you may not low blow your opponent.
Karate is the east’s version of Krav Maga, there are no holds barred in Karate, the ritualistic version of it being pushed in the west may be beta to some extent, but the true spirit of the martial art is certainly not.
True Karate teaches you the tools to win a street fight, it’s a dirty martial art, punch your opponent in the nose, break his trachea, poke his eyeballs out, kick him in the testicles, break his joints, and leave him lying in a pool of his own blood.
The only thing more beta than Karate in its truest form is MMA with its rules.
Have you heard of GSP or Machida? Both those guys have karate base and they kick ass in MMA. It teaches angles, counter striking and is actually a legit base for learning other arts.
GSP left Karate behind ages ago. Like any man of greatness, no system of rules and bounds was going to contain him. Breaking free of Karate is precisely why he’s so good.
Yea but it gave him a striking base to work off of. Striking in Karate is all about angles, misdirection, feints etc… all effective in MMA. Just look at Machida for a higher level practitioner of Karate.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, any martial art that doesn’t use live sparring sessions against other martial arts because theirs is purportedly ‘too dangerous’ is bullshit. The absolute beautiful thing about MMA and street fighting is that it will quickly show you in the heat of combat, what works and what doesn’t work, harshly. Out of all the bullshit martial arts there are a few which have proven there mettle time and time again, amongst these are Greco-Roman wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai, Judo, Russian Sambo aka Combat Sambo and Brazilian Jiu Jit Su (which is not advised in a street fight). On a side note I’d love to see a guy pull guard in a street fight, I’d die of laughter.
Anyways from my own training, I do regret that I didn’t wrestle growing up but for the money Boxing, Muay Thai and Russian Sambo are gold. Also keep in my mind any art that teaches you size doesn’t matter is bullshit, not just height but weight also. Most street fights end very quickly and brutally, don’t think you’re going to be a hero, just be the guy with a very skilled repertoire. Also, the quickest sign to tell if a guy can’t fight is 1.) If that guy talks way too much and more importantly 2.) If a guy gets in your face with his hands down. Usually unskilled high schoolers, loud all talk ghetto types and guidos do this. No skilled fighter from the UFC to the dirtiest shit promotion tournaments will ever get in anyone’s face with his hands down.
A skilled fighter has an invisible radius which could be called the kill-range, a guy steps into your kill range with his hands down and you lay him the fuck out. So when defending yourself, I can say with near absolute certainty if you are fighting someone who is stronger and/or even slightly skilled than you with Karate, Krav Maga or Systema you will get laid out. Leave these garbage ‘martial arts’ for the beta simps with over hanging bellies thinking that a few classes at McDojo will turn them into the Jon Jones. Stick with what’s tried and true.
There is nothing without live sparring.
Back in my day, I was in an underground dojo. Think “fight club”. Every week I went home beat up and bloodied.
The key thing, I found, is that you have to be able to get the crap knocked out of you and get used to being able to operate like that. I’ve seen black belts who never get decked find out the hard way how it feels to really take a roundhouse and down they go.
Sometimes my crew would drink all night and then we’d hit the training “spot” (was anywhere basically) while still drunk or hung over or ready to pass out, then train for three hours. Because it’s folly to expect that you will be in top condition when someone decides they want to stomp on your head and make your eye pop out.
Don’t know if your story is true or not, but reminds me of an old boxing expression once:
“Everyone’s got a plan until they first get hit.”
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2014/7/31/5854816/muay-thai-mma-martial-arts-history-ufc
check it back in the day when they did kung fu vs muay thai and the chinese team repeatdly got deafeated they said muay thai is too dangerous to be a marital art lol……thats when you know you got a legit art
Lance, Krav and Systema are nothing like Karate and not something done for show. Unless I’ve misunderstood you and you weren’t suggesting that.
But MMA doesn’t allow 80% of fighting because it’s “too dangerous” to their ratings.
what I love is the line “Size does not matter in karate”
That may be true, if you are a karate master and the guy you are fighting has no clue which end of his hand he pushes into you.
But in reality, between people of even vastly differing skill levels, if they have skill at all size matters ENORMOUSLY.
Big American mixed martial artists will NEVER have a problem taking down little yellow monkeys despite all their fancy flashes and moves. why? because rapid-fire punches have almost no effect on someone over 6 feet, and one of MY punches will rip a little gook’s fucking head off.
In a real fight, size matters. Carry a gun.
Heh, Lance and I were clearly typing at the same time 😛
Yeah, but said it better than your ‘yellow monkeys’ and ‘gooks’….where are you from….S. Carolina????
SMH
Oh no, did I offend your delicate feminine sensibilities?
Has nothing to do with ‘feminist sensibilities’, just your racist remarks. I notice in this string that anytime you say something stupid and someone comments on your stupidity you come back with a ‘feminist’ retort….so you have issues with women on top of being a racist? Didn’t breast feed I take it? Not cuddled enough in your thirties while living with your grandma? Wazzup wit dat?
At last an actual question! Actually, It’s fueled, not by any sort of hatred for asians , but by my disgust for the whole yellow fever thing that seems to be going on constantly among internet subcultures.
No, I have NO problem with you porking asian chicks. I could care less, hell, it might even improve the human species.
But culturally? Asian culture is CRAP. Their video games suck. Naruto is a crappy TV show, as was dragonball, and just about every series that comes out of Japan. Once I asked a friend who knew Japanse to translate directly an anime for me, because I couldn’t believe that the dialogue was really as bad as the subtitles, and you know what? It is WORSE. Professional subtitlers bust their balls trying to make the commentary less stupid.
‘asian martial artists’ are not imbued with any mystical powers. they cannot fart fireballs or walk on top of bamboo. that 90 year old zen Tai Chi master can NOT beat down a 6’2″ marine, and a karate expert that tries to disarm a professional thug with a gun gets shot. There’s no magic, and the ‘ninjas’ use guns, just like other assassins. there’s no mystical series of pressure points they can tap to make a guy die instantly, and chinese ‘traditional medicine’ like acupuncture is dramatically LESS effective than your average 19 year old creep’s strip-mall massage training.
I enjoy shocking sensibilities with terms like ‘little yellow bastards’. get over it.
Forget martial arts, just carry a knife or a gun.
Unless you live in England, in which case you can’t.
I would say this is very valid because wrestling and boxing training involves strength and endurance plus technique I don’t think karate or tai Kwan do really prepares you for a high intensity combative situation I know first hand I wrestled competitively for 4 years and it requires more than just technique its very explosive and I would assume boxing is the same thing
I was fortunate enough, while I was young, to have spent some time in Hawaii due to a military father, and was able to learn a small amount of the martial art called Kapu Lua, or “The Hawaiian Bone-breaker Art”. I really wish that I had been able to learn more of it while I was there. Unfortunately, it isn’t a martial art that seems to be popular in the continental US. Perhaps that is because it works?
Funny I don’t see Travis Browne (top ranked Heavyweight UFC fighter) who’s Hawaiian touting this martial art. Didn’t seem to stop the Gatling guns and rifles of those ‘pale-face’ American colonisers either. It does however train you in small weapons fighting, but if you are looking for a pure hand-to-hand combat style, the last place I’d look would be in Hawaii with some pudgy Hawaiian instructor who’s never seen a real fight in his life.
Sort of related, but The Foot Fist Way, with Danny McBride playing a delusional strip mall dojo owner, is the funniest movie ever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjji2srrIeg
Can’t believe I’ve not seen this. Jesus I’m in tears…
Forms are not fighting. You clearly know nothing about martial arts. I will concede that it had become commercialized garbage for white swpls in the US. But there are always degrees in any craft
1) There are too many McDojos
2) Martial Arts (the sparing kind) might not allow you to step into an MMA ring, but it will give you a decisive advantage over anybody that doesn’t know what they are doing which is roughly 95% of the population.
Kung fu (in b4 “but not REAL kung-fu111111!”) and aikido are way worse.
I watched akido live and on YouTube and it looked like choreographed dancing. The cool moves you see the masters do require the cooperation of the opponent.
Gustav, I don’t entirely agree with your statement. Many dojos offer full contact sparring. I belonged to one for some time.
I do agree that if you aren’t actually using it
That it becomes theoretical at best. However, karate is a martial art and not a sport. It was designed to resemble a dance and used as means to defend oneself. I’ve seen bouts where brown belts dispatched opponents with minimal effort. This was Kenpo.
The idea of martial arts is to end a conflict successfully without wasting a lot of time. It’s not about being alpha. I’ve seen MMA matches where it was ten minutes of what looked like one dude trying to screw another dude in the octagon. Against a seasoned practitioner of kung fu, they would hand an MMA fighter their ass. Guaranteed. Regardless of how much muscles and tattoos the MMA fighter had.
But this sounds like not so much what is beta more so as what could be percieved as beta. And that is subject to personal interpretation or another’s interpretation projected onto you.
Would I take karate, kung fu our muai thai again? Absolutely. Because it teaches discipline, first and foremost. Discipline is alpha, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
Would I take any if these hodgepodge made up martial arts that your seeing in fighting tournaments nowadays? Not on a dare. Because if you gotta get jacked, learn a couple moves and try to psych out your opponent—that’s all bullshit. Plus you run the risk of looking like a jackass trying to pull that grappling shit in a real street fight, if you don’t get laid out first.
You’re missing the point, Karate is a striking discipline and is pretty shitty at striking compared to oh let’s say Muay Thai and Boxing. Furthermore, the reason why MMA is an excellent barometre of how a real life fight would be, is because it combines grappling techniques and striking. For instance, a 6,6 NCAA Div I champ and Olympic champion wrestler would be stupid to allow some 5,10 guy to strike at him with impunity before he took you down. Now someone who primarily trains in striking or only in striking has NO DEFENCE against this, there is nothing he can to get up because he can’t, and at that point advantage wrestler, bone snaps, choke holds etc. If you believe size doesn’t matter in a situation like that or whatever Mr. McDojo sold you, then I fully urge you to pick a fight with someone of this same size possessing the same technique. Let us know that goes.
I’ve watched and participated in street and bar fights. Many don’t last past five minutes tops. Grappling will get your ass kicked, you may be lucky to pull a muay thai knee to the side. That’s about it. A well placed kenpo reversal could pop a wrist or elbow in a couple seconds.
But most rely on fists.
A well placed cross or uppercut sometimes is impressive
Yeah ok, ‘grappling will get your ass kicked’. Sure, I’m not talking about drunk nobodies tugging and pulling on each other because they’re afraid to get hit. If that’s what you’ve seen that yeah that’s not grappling, but plenty a seasoned Judo practitioner or Sambist would make you eat those words. In fact I’d take an amateur Russian Sambist over a ‘skilled’ Karate guy any day. Secondly, strength has a lot to do with it, some killer jacked Sambist is not going to let you pop his joints if you can barely bench your own weight, he’s going to crush you and so would a wrestler. Fact is, bar fights are fought most of the time like 99% of the time between unskilled combatants. Saying grappling doesn’t work in a street fight from watching unskilled plebeians brawl in a bar joint or parking lot hardly qualifies as a quality judgement.
If strength is the deciding factor, the martial arts argument becomes moot. Especially if that becomes a deciding factor between winning and losing. I don’t buy it, Lance.
I also don’t buy the grappling thing. Sun Tsu once quoted that no one benefits from a protracted battle, but i believe this is simply a difference of opinions.
If strength wasn’t a fucking factor then why do we have WEIGHTCLASSES in MMA and Boxing? Surely weight and strength doesn’t matter right? Let’s go ahead and throw Manny Pacquiao in there against Klitschko! Manny’s hand speed is enough. Let’s throw Demetrious Johnson in there against Jon Jones or Cain Velasquez, his BJJ is amazing! Joe Rogan who may be the most well known voice of MMA and student of MMA said the best base for MMA is wrestling! That’s right wrestling. The Greeks all those centuries ago probably put smaller guys in there against bigger guys and found out the smaller guys were getting killed. Weightclasses exist for all the reasons you fail to comprehend.
Rousey v. Lesnar 2014!!!!!
State sanctioned murder…..BE THERE!!!!
Well spoken!!! Thank you!!!
My daughter can whoop Rousey….believe it!!
Everything else being equal, bet on the stronger man to prevail.
The ugly truth is that if you are not going full force against opponents that are at least as big as you and/or stronger and more skilled, you have no idea what real fighting is about. That’s why boxing, wrestling, BJJ and muay thai are the best.. You don’t know what you are capable of until you have been punched in the face, kicked, and choked. I boxed and wrestled in HS, and nothing will make you tougher than getting hit in the face everyday. I got to the point that unless a punch to my face was really hard, I wouldn’t even blink. I did Muay Thai later in life, and if they have you spar with decent opponents it will toughen you up quick.
If all you ever do is pull your punches short, how are you sure you are not going to do that in the street? What happens if you do tee off on someone in the street and realize only then hitting them in the head feels like you punched a brick wall as hard as you could?
if you have proper training in a martial art you have been conditioning your hands. If your instructor has not had you conditioning your hands, go to a different instructor
You obviously haven’t seen kyokushin karate. Not saying it is the most dominant of arts, but it is far from beta.
well its the alpha of the karate styles like shotokan and ashira. Guys in k1 have actually had success with those styles such as semmy shilt,ewerton teixra andy hug and glaube feistosa.
But end of the day, the gloved striking styles are best so far, like boxing muay thai sanshou and kickboxing. Like to see burmese and cambodian boxing too.
But im curious how capoeira kalari will do when they start doing competition and build its shit
I did Karate back in the day for 10 years, and I agree with this article 100%. Apparently it takes huge balls for me to say that because every karate fucking retard I’ve talked to about this topic gets super butthurt and claims that katas are useful past white belt.
Karate is a religion. Just like people argue about which God is better, they will argue endlessly about which fighting style is better. Same with fucking guns. .45 vs 9mm, glock vs 1911, etc. If you can get past this type of thinking then there is actually some value to be taken from karate in terms of actual fighting techniques.
Turning side kick is a legit technique in my mind as is the question mark kick. Look them up as they are both actually effective in MMA.
Being a black belt means jack shit in terms of being able to fight. Know how many black belts I knew that were completely out of shape, not flexible, or women? A lot.
Another great quote by Mr. Bruce Lee:
“I do not fear the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks. I fear the man who has practiced 1 kick, 10,000 times”
In other words, if you’re a karate master….great. Let’s see it.
Meanwhile, the lowly boxer who has thrown 10,000 jabs every week for the last 5-10 years might have your number. The cauliflower eared wrestler who has shot 10,000 take-downs every year for the last 10yrs might your number. The BJJ fighter who has attempted 10,000 chokes might have your number.
Diversify your skills. Be as good on the ground as you are standing up. Be as good on defense as you are on offense, Assume your opponent is better in every way and train assuming you will lose without further training. Devote yourself to one art all day everyday and you are preparing to lose. The martial arts is like a museum. If you limit yourself to the painting, your competitors will surpass you in sculpting, sketching, mixed media and craft. Gather what you can from where you can.
“I do not fear the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks. I fear the man who has practiced 1 kick, 10,000 times”
Sort of related to this are some of Josh Waitzkin’s thoughts in his book “The Art of Learning” — remembering Waitzkin’s chosen art was Tai Chi Chuan, at which he became a national champion and then a shared world champion over in Hong Kong some years ago, against Chinese nationals who’d been training in the art from their youth.
I can’t speak for his veracity, but one point he added was that mastery of a martial art didn’t necessarily come down to knowing a hundred different strikes or kicks, it often came down to absolute, terrifying mastery of a basic set of skills, i.e. depth beats breadth every day of the week. Thus Bruce Lee’s comment — don’t worry about the guy who’s collected half a hundred different kicks, worry about the guy who knows how to clean your clock with one or two strikes he’s perfected.
Indeed. And in truth, the more elaborate or complex your strikes, holds, throws or techniques are to complete…the harder they will be to practice & master.
The jab & cross, the single leg shoot, the right side 4 count = all simple fundamentals to their respective art. Under stress this is what you will fall back on. If you’ve practiced each 10,000 times your muscles will remember. Training your body to react when your mind hesitates.
Above all else though…keep your chin down and your hands up!
“”I do not fear the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks. I fear the man who has practiced 1 kick, 10,000 times””
No. the actual meaning of that quote is that if a “practitioner” has been practiced a kick *improperly* 10,000 times. then his (or her) kick will be as ineffective as if he or she had never practiced 10,0000 times. Yet if that same practitioner had only been taught one kick and practiced THAT kick PROPERLY 10,000 such that it was something they did PROPERLY without thought, that person is better trained.
No, my interpretation was correct. In fact I have no clue what in the hell your interpretation was supposed to mean. Or what “if a practitioner has been practiced a kick” means.
Bruce meant: he who has “practiced” one particular kick 10,000 times is more to be feared than he who has “practiced” 10,000 different kicks only once.
It wasn’t a Chinese riddle or anything bud.
No, my interpretation was correct. The practicing practitioner who is both practiced and practicing kicks is presumed in Bruce’s quote to be doing it PROPERLY.
His meaning was; he feared the man who had practiced one kick 10,000 times more so than the man who practiced 10,000 different kicks only once. One cannot be a master of anything attempted once. Properly or not.
Oh. I see. Yes I did in fact get that wrong. Mistook it for a very similar saying. So my commentary stands but NOT, i repeat, NOT for the quoted text.
Wow, thank you for the irrelevant but beautiful picture at the bottom of your article.
What about judo ?
I prefer Ludo myself. Far more fun.
English bastard !
What about Brazilian Jujitsu? The first UFC won by Royce Gracie proves that people with no ground game would lose. Having some wrestling background helps, but does it really compare to Brazilian Jujitsu?
Years ago in the Canadian Army, we learned the ins and outs of bayonet and knife fighting. There was no dancing around here as we all knew that when the ammo runs out, the radio is knocked out and you’re cut off then this would be our last alternative.
Sadly this article is replete with errors. I studied Karate for years as a youth. When I was a teenager I knocked out another kid with one blow using Karate. I have also been knocked out with one blow as an adult by another man using Karate. Underestimate martial arts of any kind at your peril.
The point is that the usefulness of the martial art itself depends on how it is taught not necessarily accordingly to which martial art it is.
I do not agree that boxing and wrestling are your best choices for real life situations. They will help but frankly if you go to the ground in a street fight you are in big trouble. I have been to the ground in street fights and trust me it is not where you want to be.
As someone who who was a student of Karate way back in my early (heh) youth, i’m inclined to agree. Were there benefits found in my training?
Sure.
Would i trust whatever skills i picked up from that to stand up in a real world confrontation? Probably not.
There were female black belts i had to spar with who i could have taken down or struck down but i had to stick to a specific ‘script’ of how i was allowed to attack.
I’m not gonna knock anyone from other Karate schools but that experience sticks out for me.
There’s ample evidence for the effectiveness of Western boxing (all those YouTube knockouts & CCTV captures. True that Bruce Lee was purported to be a fan. He liked that it wasn’t locked in a rigid form of kata or style. Boxing employs the kind of gross motor movements that would function under pressure.
The American college amateur wrestlers are world class fighters in my book. The amount of ‘feel’ time spent actually locked in close quarters with an opponent transfers very well into real world scenarios. I’m not American & i am jealous that there is a highly developed core of wrestling nous in that part of the world.
Any martial arts which doesn’t involve sparring or contact against other people is worthless. You can train some kind of perfect punch for years to its visual perfection in a controlled environment all you want, but once an actual fight starts and the adrenaline surges up, you become dumb and don’t remember anything. If you’ve never sparred with someone, you will have never learned how to deal with this adrenaline rush, that anger that makes you want to just swing wildly at someone. You’ll simply have no discipline during a normal fight. You NEED to experience what it means to take a punch, experience the weight of the other body when you do a punch and everything inbetween. If you don’t might as well do yoga indeed, it’d have more health benefits.
Are you expressing your feminine side on your profile picture ?
LOL!!!! I wondered too!
Please no shaming, I am a beautiful butterfly
I never fight with anger and never want to swing wildly at someone when sparring.
Cool story bro but that’s what comes after you’ve done some sparring, in the beginning every beginner just wildly swings haymakers or clams up
No they don’t.
Hand gunning is the most useful martial art. If you have to go to places that might be dangerous, pack heat.
Church Lady: Sheriff, I see you are wearing your pistol. Are you expecting trouble?
Sheriff: No Ma’am. If I were expecting trouble I would have brought my rifle.
It’s not the art. It’s the practitioner, and how he was trained.
School-yard level, my dad can beat up your dad article. Not impressed.
No real “beta” MA. Just beta players.
Karate can be good for some, but I agree it’s mostly impractical unless you get in a fight with a board or a point style street fight. IMO the same goes with TKD (taekwonduck).
Ultimately the viability of any MA doesn’t stand alone. It has a lot to do with testing the man and his art against another man and his art. Both men have a hell of a lot to do with it.
Then again, Master Ken proves your art is bullshit:
Correction.
BJJ and Thai Boxing is the best styles for fighting.
Pure boxing isn’t good in the clinch or at close distances when standing up. Boxing can be neutralized at close ranged with elbows, knees and the clinch.
Boxing teaches “bobbing and weaving” which wouldn’t work if someone gets close.
Also, Boxing’s footwork is bad for takedown defense.
Yup. But be careful about relying on wrestling or ground fighting skills to win a fight IRL. It’s true that most street fights end up on the ground. But its also true that most street fights are NOT one-on-one, and knowing how to execute a triangle choke from a guard position WONT keep your victim’s buddys from kicking your face in while you’re preoccupied executing ground grappling combos like King from Tekken.
You want to win a one-on-one, learn serious martial arts. But if you want to survive a multi-on-one, learn how to be a ninja. Distraction, misdirection, throw a smoke bomb and run away real quick.
I hope we don’t have a bunch of fake tough guy internet warriors flooding this article.
Please don’t give us stories about how you “beat this one up” or “beat up some karate kid” etc.
Don’t want to hear your bullshit.
Thanks in advance.
BJJ and Thai Boxing is the best styles for fighting.
Pure boxing isn’t good in the clinch or at close distances when standing up. Boxing can be neutralized at close ranged with elbows, knees and the clinch.
Boxing teaches “bobbing and weaving” which wouldn’t work if someone gets close.
Also, Boxing’s footwork is bad for takedown defense.
Pankration destroys ALL. The original. Gooks did not invent martial arts. White men did.
Great article. Back when I was a teenager I went with a friend of mine to a black belt test. His girlfriend’s brother who was 10 or 11, was the one testing for the belt. This was in a small town in southwest Oklahoma so you can imagine what a joke this “Dojo” was what with pictures on the salmon colored walls of tournaments, trophy cases and the like. The instructor looked like someone who was wanted for child molestation complete with the long hair pulled back in a pony tail and the male pattern baldness.
Anyway, during this test the kid had to break boards with his fists and feet and a number of other parlor tricks designed to wow the onlooking crowd. He did one kata the instructor pronounced “see-jack” which I later learned was pronounced sajak. Aye yai yai…
At the end of his test the kid had to engage in one on one matches. He easily won those (which I’m sure were as authentic as the WWF) but then he had to fight a bunch of other kids. He had to be outnumbered at least 6 to 1. They ganged up on him and beat the shit out of him (what else would you expect in a 6 on 1 match).
At the end of round one the kid was crying his eyes out. His parents and instructor came over to console him, tell him he’s the best and all the other feel good shit they taught there. He fared a little better in the last 2 rounds (on a count of the 6 other kids sandbagging it…likely at the instruction of their “sensei”) and was eventually given his belt. As young and stupid as I was I still knew something about that fiasco wasn’t right.
To the kid’s credit he dominated the 1 on 1 matches without much effort. He showed pretty good resolve after being jumped, his technique looked solid during his katas. I’d also never seen a kid break boards before so it wasn’t as though he was completely devoid of some sort of martial arts talent.
But this kid wasn’t a black belt and neither was his joke of a sensei. Nothing about that experience seemed authentic or real to me. Hopefully this dropped karate and decided to take up a martial art with practical application that would be effective in a street fight.
What about Muay Thai, San da (Chinese MMA), Jeet Kun Do, Wing Chun, ninjutsu, and all the eastern martial arts you failed to mention? You’ve shown examples of poorly performed karate but like you said, those are poor examples, doesn’t make the art shitty as a whole, though.
My friend just returned from infantry in afghan. He said before he left he was told to forget all his prior combatives training, just tackle the guy and your buddy will come and shoot or stab him. That’s real martial art.
Elite sf train in sok-p to macp or seal cqc. All rely on the most brutally quick and effective maneuvers, ie: tackle the guy and let your buddy shoot or stab him. I mean I have seen some very impressive “skill” work from those guys too. I guess they call them best of the best for a reason.
Eastern martial arts are designed for small guys to compensate their lack of power.
My wife, who is Japanese, says that even in Japan karate is considered dorky. I believe she used the words “lame” and “old-fashioned.”
Japan loves Pride and K-1.
Just a fyi, k-1 features many practitioners from different Karate disciplines.
Those krav-maga guys will chew your dick off. shit is cray. I’ll stick to Muay Thai thx
Watch out, we got some badasses in the comments. Contrary to what the internet tough guys always say, no, not every fight goes to the ground. If it does, his buddies will likely come over to stomp and kick you.
I did Karate in my youth, and the author is mostly correct. Fortunately, we did full contact sparring so it wasn’t completely useless.
MMA is indeed very exciting and technical. What I don’t like is the continued punching of downed and clearly unconscious opponents right until the referee (who conveniantly hangs around the other side of the octagon) jumps in.
Reminds me of street scum…
Here in Brazil we have a way to deal with cocky karate “fighters”: A fucking Mata-Leão to their soft necks
I started martial arts at age five. Tried several styles and each had something useful to offer. the problem with ppls opinions is that they judge based on a couple mcdojos they’ve seen and really have no clue what they’re talking about. probably the most beta thing I’ve seen in my lifetime is the childish arguements of which style is better. reminds me of the nerds who used to argue over whether batman could beat up superman.
Agree besides boxing wrestling some fighting arts like Muay Thai kickboxing and Brazilian jujitsu are useful. I found Shaolin Kung fu helpful with the different joint lock takedowns and strikes.
Omg….You’re all missing the point!
This guy who wrote the article is an idiot.
To say one ‘art’ is better than the other is ludicrous. It is not the art that makes the man, it’s the man who makes the art.
Martial arts (karate, jiu jitsu, judo, boxing, wrestling, MMA etc.) are a base, a window to improving YOURSELF. As Bruce used to say, “Honestly expressing yourself”. There is no one way, best way, worst way…there is only YOUR way! What works for YOU as an individual! You are the master of yourself!
As a martial artist, you are always evolving, adjusting, changing, IMPROVING your skills. It’s a neverending cycle. Once you get pidgeonholed into thinking, “Ok, I’ve studied Muay Thai, BJJ, and some boxing, I’m ready for anything!” is BS!! Same as saying I’ve studied karate, TKD, Judo or anything, and after a year or two say, “Yeah, I’m ready!” is BS. It takes YEARS to know yourself well enough to feel ready and confident that you can face all challenges. And even then you have doubts.
People in this string brought up multiple attackers – YOU CANNOT BEAT MULTIPLE ATTACKERS NO MATTER WHAT YOU KNOW!!
Unless you are extremely lucky.
Best bet is to train cardio so you can run like hell!!
YOU CANNOT FACE A SKILLED PERSON WHO HAS A KNIFE WITHOUT GETTING CUT. Or even an unskilled person who has a knife. YOU WILL GET CUT. PERIOD. Set your mind to that fact, and you may survive.
I hate the term ‘MMA’ because, again, people pidgeonhole themselves into a mindset that this is all you need to study to become a bad ass. BS!! People have mentioned the usefulness or uselessness of karate, tae kwon do, judo, or whatever. EVERY fighter has a BASE knowledge of SOMETHING. Every GREAT FIGHTER is an EXPERT in ONE or MORE of these ‘arts’. Machida (karate), St. Pierre (karate), Silva (BJJ Muay Thai). SOMETHING.
But the key is making it your OWN. The key is getting to the point where you are comfortable with yourself and YOUR style of fightinh.
Bottom line is WE ARE ALL MASTERS OF OURSELVES.
“Take what is useful (to YOU), discard what is useless (TO YOU!)”.
OUT.
And katas are just as useful as punching the heavy bag and speed bag. Just as useful as running six miles (if you do a thousand in a row like I know some people did back in the day)
Don’t be knocking katas!!
IDIOT
Katas are for 8 year olds to preform for their mommies. because the McDojo does not allow contact sparing.
True story: I once saw a kid land a crane kick. He was an exchange student. Gitai. Bullies had been bothering him, so one day when Gitai saw his tormentors coming he assumed the crane kick position. They advanced on him, never thinking he’d do it. But he did. He kicked the guy right in the bread basket, knocking the wind out of him. It was hilarious, and the previously picked-on Gitai became a kind of celebrity in the school.
A powerful article indeed. For some reason I always assumed that martial arts could not compete with boxing in the real world. After reading this article, my assumptions have now been confirmed.
If your boxer guy goes for the eyes and kicks you in the nuts you may be on the right track. If not he has lost already.
this was really painful for me to read. it was like listening to a feminist explain issues that men face.
cherry picking a few bad aspects of americanized martials arts, misusing a bruce lee quote, and never actually training at a decent martials arts dojo yourself gives you zero authority to say martial arts in general is not worthwhile. go back to something you actually know about.
omg OMG this is a terrible article. What a waste of paper it was never printed on.
“Could their kiddy punches “kill” Wladimir Klitschko? What a joke.”
-> Yes a joke. Kara-te punches are intended to hit a samurai IN FULL ARMOR.
So a punch to an un-armored chest, does indead one-shot kill a guy like vladimir if it connects. Sorry dude but have you ever been to a fight in your life?
That said. Karate is not very useful in a real fight. You need a certain distance and you can only hit hard and kinda slow. Once you are a true master (higher black belt with 10+ years of experience) many karate styles become very similar to more practical self defense systems like krav magna.
The best is still WT Kung-fu. The style Mr. Bruce Lee did learn back in the day. It is also Kung-fu who wins quite a lot of MMA so not everything from asia is “useless”.
From my experience the average boxer or wrestler is no match for equaly trained Kung-fu fighter in self-defense/life or a fight to the death.
And that is not taking into consideration that you could use a club or knife to improve your odds 10 fold. Bare-handed styles are great but again no match for an equaly trained guy with a weapon. Never leave home without a good knife.
I think what you said is the general gist on here. Karate is good for exercise and such but in a bar brawl you would get glassed or worse before you could even get into stance. So for the everyday male it’s better to do something useful like staying out of fights but if and when pick a style like boxing or kickboxing to defend yourself. But always remember every action has a reaction, wheter it be a counter punch or 5-10 years in prison. So always keep your wits about.
Karate and TKD are for 8 year olds to get a little bit of cardio and learn how to count to 10 in Korean/Japanese.
You probably have a wrong idea of what karate is. What you show is Kata, or a choreographed display of the techniques one uses. I’ll agree that karate might not be as cutthroat as other martial arts, but in real karate you fight. There are tournaments. You have Ippon Kumite, which is close quarters combat. You train grapples and ground fighting, although not as much as in other martial arts. There is not so much focus on physical strength, which is probably why a karateka might be at a disadvantage against, say, a boxer. A well placed blow to the knee might solve that issue, however…
You’ve obviously never seen Kyokushin karate.
Anyone here try Systema? Is it legit?
Definitely hurts if that’s what you’re asking…
That’s basically all I’m after i.e. learning how to hit hard and hit rapidly, which Systema seems to emphasize. Contemporary boxing/kickboxing seems too rigid to me. I’d like to be able to just throw powerful punches from any position and direction without having to think about specific punches and combos.
why would you want to do powerful punches?
Chances are you will break your hand if you hit bones.
Thats why boxers have gloves. Do you?
Not necessarily punches, but powerful and versatile strikes.
Note that open hand strikes do come with their own risks. You can hyperextend your wrist and break your fingers. Palms strikes also have less range than punches.
Systema is bullshit. I’ll save you the time and money.
Most people totally miss the point of kata, or have turned it into something else.
The point of kata is not technique. Its a means by which to practice body mechanics to retrain the body to move in a rather non-intuitive way (“internal” body mechanics aka neijia) like in really good yoga. Now you can say, “go hit a heavy bag” or “go spar instead” which is better in the short term if you just want to learn to fight, but if you want to get into the “higher level” of physical skill over the course of a 20-40 year period, kata is one way to develop that because it is a lot easier to feel what is going on within the body after you have moved on from static postures.
Its like the point of doing a horse stance is not to build up the quads, without realizing it teaches you how to use ilipsoas with the hamstrings which are really weak on most people by learning to load those muscles instead of the quadraceps. If you can figure out that combo, your usable leg strength increases through additional muscle fibre recruitment, much the same as learning how to properly squat in the weight room.
The problem is that 99% of the teachers out there don’t even know the above basic mechanics or were never taught them and thus miss the entire point. Thus kata gets transformed synchronized swimming…
I’m glad I did wrestling in high school, I have no doubt in my ability to handle myself in a fight. Its interesting how other guys react when their threats inspire no fear, or when someone goes after you and you put them on the ground so fast they don’t even know what you did. Our society discourages fighting, and its something the average guy really needs to know.
Our society discourages fighting because the elites do not want men who can fight back. The Progressives on the Left especially want this because it cements their control over the masses, which starts with brainwashing early in a young boy’s life in the public schools to erase any traces of masculinity he may have.
Now now, don’t just blame the progressives. Any elite that has cemented its position will discourage all forms of martial elan if that martial character is not used to serve them. Example, Colonial Brazil, the Africans slaves brought with them from Africa, Capoeira and started using amongst themselves and eventually against their Portuguese overlords. Needless to say, this was banned, illegalised, not just amongst the Africans but lower caste whites as well. Example 2, Mao illegalised Kung Fu and other martial arts upon amalgamation of power. Masculinity is still needed by the state for defence but only when it serves the state. Even during the ‘golden’ years (Jim Crow) of the White South, whites were fully allowed to own guns but of course illegalised them for blacks and Native Americans. I’m not here to preach or criticise any power group, but you’re naive if you think that this just started with the current regime.
Add Escrima and Arnis to the Colonial Banlist; after all, Spain did ban those two during their reign in the Philippines.
Case in point.
It’s actually true, to the point even this is evident in the UK. Yes, it is illegal to defend for yourself in the UK.
leave daniel larusso out of this
Oh this was a silly post. Wing Chun practitioner here. Look lets be real. Belator is not a street fight. In a street fight there are no rules. No octagons. Only live or get dead. A lof of blows you would deliver in a life or death struggle simply are not allowed in competition so those comparisons simply do not make sense.
Secondly lets get real about the public. People who practice any kind of skilled fighting are a small percentage of the population. 10% would probably be too high.
The odds of any of THOSE skilled persons being the person who will try to “fight” with you are extremely slim.
And that Bruce quote: All respect to Lee but he’s said a lot of asinine things in his day. If he believed that quote he would have made boxing not JKD.
JKD incorporates boxing as well as other styles.
Operative word being “incorporates”.
Exactly, that’s why it’s best to study reality-based approaches to street warfare–even MMA has rules, and a lot of people study MMA now, which makes things like anti-MMA training extremely practical and formidable.
This article is appalling, both in its ignorant snobbery and the damage that it does to our efforts to help men, especially young men, to be masculine.
I speak as a 61 year old Englishman, ex-Shotokan Karate instructor, veteran of two street fights (1 win, 1 draw) and long-time researcher/writer/practitioner of Japanese and Chinese Martial Arts.
Firstly the idea that any oriental Martial Art does not “work” is the height of stupidity and completely misunderstands what Martial Arts are. All Japanese and Chinese All Martial Arts “work”. Here’s why:
All Japanese and Chinese Martial Arts are combat systems that start in the Mind, then the Spirit, then the Body. They strive to build a Martial Spirit, not a street fighter. This is something every man needs, to tap into a key part of his masculine self.
Men today are confused about their masculinity, their attraction to violence and the true meaning of courage. So many of the young men who come to the Dojo
are afraid that they are unmanly. Their greatest fear is that they will be unable to take a punch, that they will show fear. The classical Martial Arts teach them how to
find their fighting spirit. This is the greatest gift. This and the self-discipline and self-discovery that comes with the commitment to gruelling exercise.
The ONLY key to winning is conviction in the fight, the moment, and Karate teaches this, as long as our students stay long enough to discover that first critical
understanding of THEMSELVES.
Yes, the mainstream Martial Arts have the more deadly moves banned, hidden away. If street fighting is your goal, there is nothing more deadly than Ju-Jitsu, though you are going to need to seek out some very elite instructors and prepare to be vetted very hard before they teach you. When I was starting out I had a few training sessions with an Israeli Defence Force instructor, who was in London for a summer. He taught me some very deadly strikes. I once used one of them in training at another club and got hauled off the floor by the Sensei, for illegal dangerous combat (which is kind of crazy when you consider it).
Any Martial Art that teaches fighting spirit and martial virtues (and they all do) “works”. In our weak Western society, the Martial Arts are the ONLY place that a man can exercise his Martial Spirit. The key point is to get men to practice a Martial Art. Any Martial Art.
This article raises excellent points. I don’t think it takes anything away from what you’ve done.
Well said Kildar.
For the “streetfighters” in the audience I would like to make one thing very, VERY clear.
A real fight, as in fight for your life, as in you get mugged in the favelas of rio/brazil at 2am. You are not sure if they will just take your money or are after your organs too, or just rape and kill you for fun. In such a situation you strike to kill.
You never punch in the face, or go to the ground. If you do, you are dead.
You go for the eye, use your thumb and then the thumb-in-eye leverage to break his neck while using the body as a shield. It sounds un-real but this is what you do if you have multiple attackers.
All the while you are on 1000% adrenaline and try to get away as fast as possible. Expect to get shot, stabbed everything. If you leave a corpse or two behind you dont care and no one else ever will.
If the same thing happens in the US or in europe you better hand over all your money and your phone. Let them kick you or hit you, even if you could fight. Chances are they wont kill you and if there is a lot of violence the police will find YOU. You are the one who has something to loose (like a job, house) and the goverment will get you.
This is why you can not learn real self-defense in the west. You can not have 20yo idiots run around killing people. Only the police is allowed to do that and the goverment is rich enough to enforce it.
In poor, 3rd world countries the situation is different.
In 3rd world countries people die all the time. There is no CSI like investigation or something. They are just dead. Same with crime victims – if you are stupid enough to enter a favela in the first place and you happen to not get out again, nobody will give a shit.
THESE are the places where you learn how to fight, because these guys fight for their lives frequently. And when they do this, they do it in packs. The lone wolf badass who wins against 10 or 100 and does not take a scratch (movie: phoenix rising and others) is just that. A movie but not reality.
Real fighting is not about beeing good or winning. It is about survival.
I can relate to this comment. Well put and thank you for this excellent comment.
I learned how to fight by getting wasted and shooting my mouth off, liberally. Hell of learning curve, but it worked pretty well.
Martial arts are gay.
Boxing and wrestling are excellent, but reality-based fighting techniques (and there are much better approaches than Krav Maga) are the best training. Don’t fight unless you absolutely have to, and in those situations, know how to absolutely devastate your attacker.
You can try Win Chung Kun Fu too. A very good Martial art, and very good in closed situation. As a Krav Maga student, I fought against a friend (training) on Wing Chun, and they have very good close-combat training too!
I had no idea there were so many internet tough guys here. An unparallelled collection of hand to hand combat experts!
Can we add you to the list Señor or would identify as the internet pansy?
Or perhaps you are the real life tough guy and ostensibly an expert in something. You’re just here to call out the pretenders, right?
buzz off if you have nothing of value to add in the discussion.
First, any “pure” martial art, wrestling, BJJ, boxing, muay thai, is not going to be useful in MMA anymore.
(Combat sambo may be an exception, but this is based on a number of styles)
Current MMA champions put all the arts together.
Lyoto Machida, Stephen Thompson and Michael “Venom” Page disagree with your argument that Karate-based MMA styles are useless.
Re: TKD, Anthony Pettis began in TKD.
Your argument is beta.
shaolin is in no way beta. Also, if you want to talk about practicality you should watch Man of Tai Chi by keanu reeves
So a Keanu Reeves movie is you’re example of how it’s not beta? That’s reality to you? You must be high as a motherfucker right now!
I’ve been training in Wing Chun for almost 10 years and it’s a great Martial Art for self-defense, dealing with normal everyday attackers or people ‘who can’t fight’.
End of the day, Martial Arts has always been about self-defense and learning to get out of physically dangerous situations.
Being a Wing Chun Practitioner, it would be silly to assume that that style alone would be enough to get in the ring with. You’ll need other attributes like wrestling, grappling, timing, coordination etc.
You have to essentially decide why you’re learning to fight and who you want to fight against. If it’s to defend yourself, then any Martial Art is ideal. But for competition and comparing yourself to the best MMA fighters and Boxers, then be prepared to train hard, do loads of sparring and cross train.
The rising forearm block is the worst why are people still using that ?
Don’t be fooled by the authors Perception of tai chi , it is not just some exercise for the old.the paradox of tai chi is you move slow to become faster . It is not rigid like karate or other hard styles ,tai chi has a deadly side to it. It is difficult to move or hit effectively if the body is full of tension , it’s like tai chi re- programs the body to not have tension or tightness . Finding a credible teacher is my only gripe with tai chi. ” forget about yourself and follow your opponent ” and you can take that quote any way you like.
He was my hillbilly friend I used to hang out with back in the day in Uptown and Edgewater on the north side of Chicago. He was maybe 5-8 165 or so. Rock hard, the best player on our school’s lousy football team. I could outlift him but not his older brother. He didn’t box or wrestle but in a steet fight he was pure animal destruction. Impervious to pain he’s wade in and chop a guy down with a flurry of hard punches. Us maligned baby boomers, we fought a lot. It was just part of life in the rust belt north. The point I’m trying to make is its not always the biggest and strongest guy that wins the fight. Marius Pudzianowski, crazy strong has been just a so so MMA fighter. I’ve found the guys that throw the hardest concussive punches are often thin rangy guys with big fists and broader shoulders. I’m thinking of boxers like Panama Al Brown, Alexis Arguello and Thomas Hearns as a welterweight. As others have stated here, street fights can be sudden and brutal. I’ve found the key is not to get taken out by the big punch and to be strong enough to take your opponent down. Especially if you’re a shorter guy. That and this was a very enjoyable article, a big plus for ROK.
There is no such thing as a great martial art. Only great practitioners. Simply owning a super duper tricked out AR doesn’t mean the person is an adequate shot. Nor does owning a special belt. Mas Oyama killed bulls with his bare hands using karate. Sounds like his punches were effective.
Wow some truth and a lot of bullshit in this article. First, I have never practised karate so I do not have a stake in this but the author is completely ignorant about the state of MMA and probably never trains. Guaranteed the author has never sparred with a kyoshin karate practitioner and would get his ass handed to him.
First lets start with the what is correct about karate:
-yes katas are pointless and will not help you in a fight
-yes there are numerous mcdojos that don’t teach you legit fighting skills
-karate is an incomplete martial art
-if you use strictly karate in a street fight you will get your ass handed to you
What the author doesn’t point out is that karate principles, strategy, footwork, timing and distance is making its way into MMA.
Connor McGregor, GSP, Lyoto Machida, Chinzo Machida, and Chuck Liddell have all claimed that karate has helped them develop the stand up base needed to win in MMA. The greatest striker in K-1 is semy shchilt who is an ashihara karate practioner. Vitor Belfort has also started learning karate in his training and he is next in line to fight for the title.
Since MMA fights are fought with tiny 4 ounce gloves, one clean strike is all this needed to win in a MMA fight (See Lyoto Machida) which proves the validity of karate theory. If you ever seen a karate point fighting tournament, they are separated after 1 blow (very unrealistic) but teaches you to strike and not get hit which is the secret to Lyoto’s success.
Also wrestling is also incomplete as it teaches no defence against submissions, no guard techniques, and teaches you to give up “your back” to avoid the pin. Boxing is also limited as it doesn’t teach about clinches, throws, knees, etc.
Most martial arts are useless in a street fight (who wants to test their skills against a guy with a knife and his friends?) and the best self defence is street smarts and a CCW permit.
Question: When I was practising an instrument 8 hours a day I would do everything I could to simulate an actual performnce, and usually overtrain so that a paying gig was easy by comparison. If you’re learning Krav Maga or BJJ how can you actually know your eye gauge or choke or arm break is actually going to work when you need it? You cant actually practise it on someone and be 100% sure its going to work is intended.
Can someone clear this up for me?
If you are a soldier and you practise shooting and you hit that target well – how can you be sure you will hit the enemy in a war?
Well you cant. Plenty of soldiers will miss the enemy with their gun when they go to war. Not because they cant hit a dummy, it is because they cant kill a human.
You can make sure the gun bullet hits that dummy and if that dummy was a human he would most certainly be dead.
But you can never be sure every soldier will be able to shoot and kill another human. Never. However the chances go up with training. Professional soldiers tend to have way less problems with this than new recruits who go to war after boot camp.
Same applies for martial arts. You never know who is a killer inside. But you DO know that a certain move used by a trained fighter who wants to kill WILL work.
Certainly, on the psychological level.
But on the more prosaic level, I wouldn’t feel confident performing a “killing move” unless I was sure it would kill, and I can’t practice that. How many pounds of pressure doesn’t it really, truly take to smash a windpipe? Would I be able to do it fast enough or would my opponent tuck their chin in too quickly?
I took karate as a kid, but the school certainly seemed to take it seriously. The teacher was fanatical about instilling the basics in us- firm stance that doesn’t sacrifice mobility, making every attack deal real damage, controlling space, using tactics to beat a larger/stronger opponent, lots of stuff you could really use.
If your stance was weak the teacher would knock you over until it was solid. If you threw a pointless-looking punch you went to the heavy bag and learned to punch through it. If you couldn’t control space you’d get hit in the ribs until you learned to hold an opponent back.
It was all very practical, and I never lost a fight against another kid when I was forced to use what I learned.
I’m sure there’s a lot of shitty karate out there, but some people learn the fundamentals of fighting that way.
“Any time I have spoken to someone who teaches or practices Karate, they give the same excuses as to why their students don’t engage in contact or win MMA competitions. As a defense, they claim that their “punches could kill” so they don’t do them because its unethical. Could their kiddy punches “kill” Wladimir Klitschko? What a joke.”
Well, Karate maximizes the force of the impact using the whole body as a lever for a single strike.
Some years ago my short and old karate teacher broke a heavy door lock with a, like you said, “kiddy punch”.
Read this:
http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/karate2.htm
and especially this:
http://www.thebrotherhoodofveteranwarriors.com/articles/Karate%20Punch%20Physics.html
(obs: sorry for my english)
Be really careful in your wording. American, Mcdojo Karate is beta. Okinawan, 100-man kumite, authentic Karate is not. Lyoto Machida, Francisco Filho, Andy Hug and many others would easily dispel your stupid rant. The best karatekas may not be able to defeat a monster who spars day in day out in MMA, but they can definitely uphold the purpose of self-defense against many.
“Tai Chi, a slowed-down version of Karate.” This sentence reflects your complete lack of understand and ignorance of traditional martial arts. I know you feel compelled to comment on martial arts and unarmed combat because it is “masculine”, but seriously, please stop scandalising. You are sitting at the bottom of the well and pretend the world is as small as you perceive it.
MMA ties strikers hands behind their backs. If MMA allowed strikers to hit the way they wanted to, many of these wrestlers, who charge in mindlessly, would be dead. Not allowed to use elbows, open palms, or strikes to the back of the head? How about you tell wrestlers they can’t perform standing takedowns or takedowns from behind and see how fast wrestlers lose. MMA has been just as pussified because the atmosphere of political correctness in the west has made the owners perpetually afraid of a dead body or gruesome injury putting them off the air. In other words, MMA is just as beta as westernized karate.
MMA is for drunk college students who have never been in a serious fight that wasn’t flailing their arms around mindlessly to watch and then pretend they know a lot about fighting without putting any effort in themselves whatsoever. Just another manifestation of entitlement culture women love so much.
Damn, you make me miss the original anything goes format of the UFC.
First and foremost, is it me, or those chicks in the video (Serbia) were very attractive?
Anyhow, I guess it is prudent to first become the proverbial “internet black belt” by giving a brief dossier on personal ma experience, so please pardon me. Spent 6 years competitively wrestling, over 10 years practicing San shou (full contact Chinese kickboxing with Greco-roman wrestling), college judo and boxing team. With that being addressed, I agree 100% with this article, especially when discussing the beta male attitude in finding solace in a even more beta nurturing activity such as the American McDojo kara-te. From my experience, I even met those same “weaker western beta males” who recently had a revelation that they were being manipulated into the so called eastern philosophical ideologies of pacifism whilst it really is just nurturing a lazy and comfort hugging free for all.
Sorry, you lost me at Krav Maga, the bullshido of the 21st century. Boxing and Wrestling are great though.
You may also want to consider broadening your horizons and checking out Kyukushin full contact Karate and Traditional Taekwondo (not the olympic flavour nor the American variant). They’re both pretty effective and useful in real life. I once had the pleasure of witnessing a Kyukushin practitioner wreck the shit of no less than 5 thugs at once.
This is an insult to someone who practices martial arts, sir. Karate techniques are not that easy.
Machida is probably the best counter-striker in MMA and his background was originally karate. Pettis has some insane kicks from his taekwondo background.
Actually, karate is a huge component in the repertoires of some of the top MMA fighters, BOXING is what has been made totally obsolete by MMA.
Bruce Lee said that not because boxing is a superior skill, but rather because boxers tend to take boxing more seriously than people take other martial arts IN THE WEST.
On the street, grappling rules, full stop. Anybody who only knows strikes and can’t grapple is in big trouble on the street.
What my Sergeants always said when I was in the Marine Corps was “tools for your toolbox, gents.”
Martial arts of any kind ought to be a tool that goes in your toolbox. Most of the arts in dojos are not standalone. That said, some of that stuff sure was great to add to my 03-reportoire. I did, and still will, take good combative tips from anyone, because I can use it in certain situations. Tools for your toolbox, indeed.
As for me, I never looked at it in the “nerd” way described in the article. I was always thinking about how I could apply McDojo principles to combatives, and to this day I’m still coming up with my own stuff, using principles I have learned.
It’s a good way to be, if you want to do combatives.
Get in on the HEMA (Historic European Martial Arts) scene I’d say.
Working from old codexes and manuals of arms, a bunch of experimental historians have recreated the old martial skills of Europe. It’s still a work in progress overall but pretty dam fun. Plus as it is based off material that was designed to teach people who would be going to war, it’s more martially sound than the modern castrated versions of eastern martial arts.
You are aware ther’s still some actual fighting Karate styles? Sure, they can’t hit faces with fists, but it’s still not to be taken too lightly.
Also, both Machida and GSP – UFC Champions – prided themselves with being Karateka.
Sure, MOST karate is bullshit, and the video you showed of Katas is more like a dance.
But there’s also ‘Fitness boxing’.
It’s like saying ‘some are bad, all are bad.’
Well played, moron.
It’s not Karate it’s the man.
Ehhh….yes and no. Go to your local Kyokushin dojo and ask them to spar. You’ll find not all karate is the same. And some of the greats have kyokushin background….Andy Hug, Fancisco Filho, GSP, Guy Metzger, Bas Rutten, Semmy Schilt, just to name a few. I’m not comparing it to anything else, I’m just saying that obviously, specifically Kyokushin, has proven it’s stripes pretty well. It’s a tough as nails Karate style that does full contact sparring, and despite the tournaments that don’t allow punches to the head, the Kyokushin dojos I’ve personally seen have sparred full contact to the head as well as tournament style.
Also there are many really stupid things in this article. First, you say “As soon as an Asian martial artist gets too close or too far, they have no more skills in their set and skull crushing ensues.” You mean Judo isn’t an Asian martial art? Weird.
Also you claim that, “Learn boxing, wrestling, or a mixed style like Krav-Maga.” And I’d agree with the first two (being a long time boxer and having grown up as a wrestler, I disagree with the second one. Krav-Maga, outside of Israel, is complete and utter shit most of the time. Yes, you’ll find exceptions, but the Krav Maga schools I’ve seen are….a mix of bullshit.
And in the end tactical hand gun training will trump everything else. In a situation with a trained guy with a hand gun, it makes MMA and the rest as useless as any McDojo.
I messed around with kenpo for a little while. I do have a background in boxing and wrestling, though, but I felt like I should see how the other half lives. Despite being a form of karate, it was fairly hardcore. My old white belt is grey with sweat and has blood stains on it. We would regularly punch oak planks wrapped in rope (called makawari, I think. The rope was replaced often, because of the blood from the beginners). We would fight each other regularly, and the owner (who is a Filipino man but trained in Japan) insisted that we only wear mouth guards; all other padding was optional. A few people got injured. Even more quit.
Depends, I learned karate from a guy who ended up teaching the senior students actual skills like grappling, knife defense and stuff that will actually help you. But most places are just Mcdojo’s that want your money and don’t teach you anything useful.
Tai Chi is called Supreme Ultimate Fist. It takes longer to learn than Krav Maga but Chinese history shows it is the superior art. Check out a movie called Tai Chi Master. Based on history.We practice that along with 7 Star Preying Mantis and have easily defeated all comers including, Karate, Akido, jui-jitsu, judo, Muay Tai, Tai Kwon Do, MMA, boxers, and Caporeia. Both of my sons are undefeated mostly using Tai Chi because people like you have bought into the myth that its for old people and not a true fighting art. So not a few big egos have found out that, they don’t get hit or kicked, cannot be taken to the ground and their power is way more than they thought. I don’t put down any martial art. What matters is dedication. The difference is whether it is a sport art for trophies or a combat art for killing or maiming.
Say that to a kyokushin karateka they would kill you.
more like America fucked Karate into being beta.
You were saying….