229 thoughts on “3 Reasons Why Men Do Not Belong In The Delivery Room”

1. I missed my x wives delivery of my daughter who was premee. Crazy b had to go to counciling over it. I am not a doc; so why should I care…. I agree but I think the mindset of a relationship has to be set before marriage.

2. Horseshit on points 1, 2, and 3. Is the author a father?
   I delivered both my sons through natural childbirth. #1 was at the local university hospital. One hour after he was born we got in a cab and took him home.
   #2 was delivered at home with the aid of a midwife.
   Their mother did not want to submit to the medical industry and took control of her pregnancies and childbirths.
   I am not one to advocate any method of childbirth because it is a serious matter. But if you are planning to have children you should educate yourself on what methods are available. We used the Bradley method and were pleased with the outcome. Childbirth does not have to be a medical emergency and the husband very much can help his wife deliver and recover from the event. Or you can just turn her over to the medical industry and await your results like a fucking beta.
   see Husband-Coached Childbirth : The Bradley Method of Natural Childbirth
   And to think ROK rejected my essay on work-life balance tactics for young women :
   http://wp.me/p6QFjS-3B

   1. I concur with you Mr. Jones….I have seen this meme several times on ROK, and it always seems to come from a guy without kids. I was present for the birth of both of my children, and would not have missed it for the world. My hands were the first physical contact my son had with this world…how was that a bad thing? Neither my wife nor I experienced anything like what was presented here. And for you naysayers, I am no fucking beta!

      1. Word. Nice post

      2. “I am no fucking beta!”
         >spotted the beta.

         1. Nice thing about the internet….it allows folks to rest securely on their own unfounded assumptions. I wish dueling were still legal!

   2. I also have to respectfully disagree with the author of this post. I was in the delivery room for the birth of all of my children and I, nor my wife, have experienced any of these issues. Now I know I know…the exception doesn’t disprove the rule and yada, yada, yada, but I would also point out that all this theory-crafting is coming from just one doctor. Are there any other doctors in different areas of the world who have done similar studies?

   3. Yeah, I’m with you. But not the author of this article. Being there is something that can’t be duplicated yet can’t be taken from you either. I’ve done it for both of my kids. I’m glad I did.

   4. The “medical industry.” 100% right on.
      With our first child my wife and I ended up getting pressured by the OB to get a completely unnecessary C-section. It was a HUGELY frustrating experience. They push you around like you’re a beta pawn, which you are. The information asymmetry means they know exactly what to say to scare you. They like C-sections because, hey, more money for them and less risk of malpractice. Nevermind C-sections are NOT as good for the baby or the mother (google it).
      We got educated before our second was born. We hired a doula (midwife) to be on OUR side during the process. She was an ex OB nurse herself, and was awesome. We had a birth plan (100% natural) and found an OB who was chill and respected our wishes. I wouldn’t even have gone to the hospital this time except for the fact that a natural birth after a C-section carries a low risk of uterine rupture. We decided a hospital was best. But we controlled the hospital, they didn’t controll us.
      I learned that a LOT of conventional “wisdom” about childbirth is total bullshit. Like the mother needs an IV to pump her unnaturally full of unnecessary fluid. I found this site to be an awesome source of good knowledge: http://evidencebasedbirth.com/
      A doula is a must-have in my opinion. Entering a hospital without a doula who understands what you want and is experienced in childbirth is like walking into a courtroom without a lawyer. The doctors don’t give a shit about you.

      1. Stock Photo #1 says it all. She is lying on her back during labor, the worst possible position for moving a 10-lb mass out of her vaginal canal.
         If you submit to the medical industry they will make you an obedient beta while they ass-rape your bank account. Go sit in the waiting room and look at your smarty phone. Maybe Oprah will be blasting out of the large screen TV. Or you could catch up on a 5 year old copy of “People” magazine.
         Your wife? They will pump her full of drugs so she won’t have to do the work of…labor. Instead of you gently massaging her pussy and inducing contractions she will be given a spinal block and “petosin” to induce contractions. Here’s what happens : she will be in a drugged-out coma and will awaken during the peak contractions, then fall back into narcotic sleep. Sounds pretty miserable. Imagine being drunk and getting woke up every 10 minutes by someone pinching your nuts with pliers.
         After she manages to push that kid out while lying flat on her back (damaging her insides from the trauma) and they clean up the mess you may be allowed in to see the aftermath. Since you are supplicant to Medical, Inc. they will soon harvest your son’s foreskin to sell to the cosmetic industry for use in ladies facial creme.
         Or you could have the balls to be with her throughout the experience, giving her a shoulder to hold on to while you time and anticipate the contractions. Instead of her being in a drugged out delirium she is awake and cheerful. She has orgasms when you massage her pussy and nipples, further pushing the child down the canal and enlarging her cervix for easier delivery. Then you see your child coming into the world, an unforgettable experience. The midwife, who crochets for a hobby, expertly sews up her vagina after the birth. From the beginning of that child’s life you and your wife are holding it in your arms instead of it being isolated into an “incubator” sensory deprivation tank.
         For some of you though maybe Dr.Odent’s advice is ok. You are timid and squeamish. Might pass out at the sight of blood. You need the experts to tell you what to do. Better to allow the doctors to pump her full of drugs and instruments than for you to provide her companionship and intimacy.Those poor doctors have a dozen other screaming women they have to process on the day of your child’s birth and can’t be bothered comforting your wife.

         1. You describe exactly our first childbirth experience. It was a dehumanizing process where they ripped our son away as soon as he was out. She was so drugged an exhausted she said “I don’t feel anything” (emotionally) when our son was “born.” What should have been a wonderful family moment was irrevocably lost.
            Doctors/hospitals treat childbirth as some medical problem instead of the natural process it is. And experts? Yes, at doing the wrong things. Seriously. They often do the exact opposite of what is right for the mother and baby (but it’s “right” for them due to perverted incentives).
            Our second experience was totally opposite. Our daughter was born at midnight. We went home the next morning.
            I generally am all for aggressive medical treatment when warranted. But childbirth does not require “treatment.” Do yourself a favor and get yourself a midwife. If you go to the hospital bring her with you.

         2. Since you are supplicant to Medical, Inc. they will soon harvest your
            son’s foreskin to sell to the cosmetic industry for use in ladies facial
            creme.

            How very “Fight Club” of you. Sounds like you’re one of those anti-circumcision zealots, so I ask that you ease up because those types make everyone look bad 😉
            A significant percentage of foreskins are used for skin grafts, which I have what I’ll call significant second-hand experience with.

         3. I am not a zealot. I am circumcised and my sons are not. You are advocating circumcision because the foreskins are used in skin grafts? For equality’s sake we should harvest female tissue as well.
            Off-topic but I told my son I was thinking of converting to Judaism for the business contacts and that he would have to be circumcised. He said “No thanks.”

         4. Do you have baby dick skin on your face?

         5. Converting to judaism for the business contacts”
            …
            .LMAO.
            …
            Hahaha

         6. AMD_Afficionado
            learn the truth….circumcision is utterly and totally pure evil. stop spouting lies.
            i sincerely hope you are merely ignorant of the truth….but far too often I’ve learned pro-mutilation/rape folks just love that thing they adorably call circumcision to the point of pure insanity and no amount of logic will convince them it is anything but the best thing since sliced bread.
            go to drmomma.org for a good place to start learning the truth.
            if you arent interested in the truth….then i hope you never have sons are sterile.

         7. What would that “significant percentage” of foreskins used for skin grafts be? Link?

      2. C sections = higher profit margin from your kid’s birth

      3. You’re judging an entire class of professionals based on your bad experience. That’s both unfair and narrowminded. I know you are right when you say most doctors are pushing for unnecessary c-sections. Do you know why? Because they are more expensive and most hospitals receive more insurance or state funding if they have a higher c-sections/natural births ratio. Then, more guidelines are written to enforce the “c-section culture”, and we enter a nonsense spiral.
         When you hire a doula, you’re hiring someone with empirical, non-scientific training. In a risky pregnancy, that can end the worst way possible: double murder, charges of negligent homicide, and a family destroyed.
         Hire a doctor, for God’s sake! If you explain him how determined is your option for a natural birth, you’ll have at least the advantage of having someone in the room who can save lives, beyond acting as a catching net for the baby and a mood coach for the mother. A hired doctor would be less biased towards c-section than one working with the above explained constraints.
         *disclaimer: I am a MD, but not in OB.

      4. I couldn’t agree more with this post!! So unexpected to read it here of all places though. Doctors do give a shit but they are trained to fix problems whereas midwives are trained to maintain normality. I’m a midwife and watching deliveries in America is a shocking experience. I am very pleased that I get to practice in uk

         1. Yes Kerry you nailed it. Doctors are trained to solve problems. They treat labor and birth like a “problem” instead of a natural process. Huge difference.
            I stand behind my statement that doctors don’t give a shit about you. Sure, they might kinda sorta care. But that’s entirely beside the point. Their incentives are not aligned with yours, and that leads them to push decisions that are best for them (e.g. C-section for less birth risk (for them) and more money, labor induction to save their time) and not for you or your child. The outcome is the same as if they don’t give at shit at all. Hence, they don’t give a shit.

   5. Fuckin A. Doctors are some of the most arrogant and close-minded people I have come across.
      They are a bit like police. Police think they are the only one who can deal with force. Doctors think they are the only ones who can deal with health.
      Facepalm.

   6. i just posted my own comment saying this article is horseshit….so yeah we agree on that.
      ROK is a accurate a lot of times…but now and then they produce a turd.

      1. Don’t we all.

3. Better to not get any babies at all. “But what about fucking for the sake of your race” (typical RoK comment)
   Well, I’m glad to shoot some more to even out my share of not reproducing in the coming civil war.

   1. Let’s say this in a pleasurable way:

      1. ah, the classics…I miss my high school reading list

         1. Yes, i think this one came up right after “Rumblefish” (by SE Hinton) for most of us in 9th grade.
            “Stay gold, Pony Boy” prepares us for everything that follows!
            (I hope someone gets that YA literary reference)

         2. Ralph Macchio died, reincarnated as the Karate Kid. I think I got a “D” for that analysis of the book back in high school

      2. Not too hard to fap to.

   2. You win the internets today

   3. You’re goddamn right.

   4. That works

   5. I thought about serving my race by donating sperm, but since anonymity is no longer something they value, fuck it.

      1. What do you owe your race for? You won’t be around forever

   6. Lol. Very nice.

4. I’d prefer to be in the delivery room, because I’d sure as hell be getting a DNA test done ASAP, after first collecting swab samples from the baby (the early bird vets the sperm).

   1. The nappy head and mocha skin wouldn’t need a DNA test…..

5. Serios ..I dont have a child …I dont think have one ,,,for me in this moment is the slavery and i cant do that .. I respect people to like But i see almost friends with serious problems just for one child and i dont need that problems in my life …In this times for me is imposible think in cum inside a women ,,,just the idea of can be pregnant scared me …Life is GREAT in the SINGLE life without any CHILD.

6. Why would you even want to see that, it’s probably the most disgusting and disturbing thing about being human.

   1. I suppose one could view it that way…or, as I view it, as a front row seat to the creation of new life. It is indeed an intense experience, one that requires every ounce of masculine control that one can muster. A man must truly be a man on that occasion. An added benefit, is to see an accurate depiction of the power of a woman to deliver life, as God intended, rather than the bullshit SJW version of female empowerment.
      My wife had both births naturally, without the use of pain drugs (for the benefit of the baby). If that isn’t the true strength of a mother, then what is? I had only increased my respect for my wife and her true femininity after the experience.
      As I feel that ROK celebrates true masculinity, there must be some appreciation for an “accurate femininity”, and for me that view and appreciation came from being an integral part of both of my children’s births.

      1. It’s not something beautiful nor very spiritual to see. It’s sad, it’s a punishment. Men used to be forbidden to enter this room in the Middle Ages, and as the author points out, this trend of the dad watching started with feminism.
         Men worshipping the life giving vaggie is a regression to prehistorical matriarchies.

         1. Oh come on! Appreciating a woman’s ability to give birth is not the same as woman-worship.
            I have not experienced it, but I think it is very spiritual. It may be disturbing, but if you ask me, spirituality is not “lying in the grass and adoring flowers”. Real spirituality deals with our existential angst, fear of death and explores the abysses in our own nature.
            Ironically, I think the fact that we even think of it as disturbing has to do with how much we are divorced from and in denial of our real nature.

      2. Haha there is such an obvious gap between men who’ve had kids and those who haven’t on this thread. I’ve watch both my kids being born and it bonded me to them in a way I would never have missed. Another one due in three weeks. I think more highly of my wife each time and it hasn’t put me off fucking her. It’s the monotony of monogamy generally that does that. Her having my kids makes me less likely to shag someone else.

         1. I’m with you all the way…my wife and I have not slowed down at all in the sex department, even compared to our childless friends and relatives. Makes me think some of these guys are losing the wood for their wives for different reasons. Seems like an awful lot of cowardice being expressed here….many “manly men” who would saber rattle about going to battle in a civil war if Trump is assassinated, but can’t stand to support the mother of their child in the process of giving birth. Fucking pussies.
            You think a man with his guts laying on the ground doesn’t have a foul smell? At least with a child birth the outcome is beautiful, and not the end of a human life. During my two kids birth, I was the only thing standing between the woman I love, and some cold, arrogant medical professional that will do whatever will make them the most money, regardless of the outcome for my child. Man up fellas, not all instances of modern male/female interaction were created by feminism.

         2. Also, congrats on the impending birth!

   2. As a man who watched hundreds of births for professional reasons, I’d tell you: the worst about it, is the smell. Try something like snot, iron, rubber and fishy vomit entering your nose at the same time.

      1. Lol, ok, i’ll grant you that one:)

      2. I wish we were oviparous.

   3. Thank you. I thought I was the only person here who thought this way.

7. I used to work on a farm. Was everyday part of life. Ok it was animals but basically same process, although pulling a calf out of its mothers vagina would probably be a little extreme for humans. Seeing my woman in the process would impact on my view of her sexually I would imagine……

8. Ewww, my wife gave birth and I accidentally saw it! Now my feelings are hurt and I have lost all desire for sex ever again! You urbanites had best come out and live on a farm for a month or two.

   1. It’s not like you fuck your own farm animals…. or do you?

      1. Big cities insulate folks from real life, causing one to be squeamish about real physical things. They also put humans in an unnaturally high population density leading too all sorts of mental problems and intensifying dysfunctional social arrangements such as rampant faggotry. As a species we are not meant to live at 20,000 people a square mile and buy all our meat in neat little plastic wrapped bubbles. Once you have helped a cow give birth or hell even worked yourself hard building a giant garden, cleaning an animal you hunted, or just getting shit on your boots feeding the chickens it’s hard to be so prissy about just another fact of life.

10. It’s obvious the author is not a father.
    I was concerned about seeing the business end of childbirth. I thought I’d never look at my wife’s vaj the same way.
    I was wrong.
    Being beside my wife and witnessing our daughter’s birth was an incredible experience I’ll remember for the rest of my life. No exaggeration.
    Yes it’s freaky to see a crumpled up human head exit her vaj. But that faded rapidly. It is nothing compared to witnessing the miracle of childbirth, especially your own child.
    I know that sounds hokey but it’s totally true.

    1. I too have fears of seeing that. And I cannot ask even my closest friends how their wives’ snatch recovers after a small cabbage head passes through it. So perhaps the anonymity of the internet will allow some of you fathers to tell us, is there any chance of the vag snapping back close to what it was before?

       1. Of course not
          ..
          How do you not know this???
          …
          Kegels and general fitness can help bit its never the same as it was before..

          1. Seconded. There is definitely a distinct difference between a nulliparous and a parous vag

       2. It’s not the same.
          If you’re rich get a surrogate, dealing with a pregnant wife sucks too.

    2. It’s funny. Before reading this article, it did not enter my mind that it could destroy the intimacy. Must be some sexual shame thing going around…
       I would not want to make the whole thing harder on my woman than it needs to be, but otherwise, I would love to witness it, too.

    3. As a father who was present in the delivery room, I agree with you. Points 1 and 2 of the author are conjecture. I can understand why some OB-GYN prefer to have the father wait outside, especially if they behave like chicken with their head cut off. Mildly agree with his point 3, but this lasts only for a few weeks or months, which is ok. You’re not supposed to be humping her sore pussy the days after delivery anyway 😉 and also not for a few weeks if she had a episiotomy.
       As a prospective father you have 8 months to learn the medical details about birth and this makes you a calm, rational supporter of the mother in the delivery room. This helps her and the baby, as well as the medical staff. One thing I realized was that your managerial shrewdness or motivation is misplaced in this room. Go with the flow, stay calm and supportive. Biology is taking it’s course and you have the privilege to see it live. Enjoy it.

    4. You are assuming that all men have equal tolerances and that is where you (and the author, for the opposite reason) are wrong.
       Some men (like you) don’t care; others (like the author) do. Both of you are both right and wrong in your responses.
       Each man needs to decide for themselves if they can stomach the site of something as big as a baby being expelled from their wife’s crotch. Followed by the snake-like umbilical cord and a disgusting looking placenta. Not to talk of the gush of amniotic fluid coming before and after the baby has been expelled.
       Again, all men do not have equal tolerances.

    5. Sounds similar to smoking KRATOM.

11. Well- from a practical aspect seeing the first two being born in the hospital made it a lot easier to deliver the third at home when he decided he was in a bit of a hurry to get out.
    Funny– got into an argument with the guy on 911 over whether in fact the head was crowning or not. He seemed to be in disbelief this was going to be over prior to the paramedics getting there.

12. Just stay outside and don’t worry : they have the machine that goes “ping !”

    1. ….

13. I am guilty of all of this shit. I went through Lamaz training and attended the birth. I was cussed out by wife. I was useless in there. The only positive is that the doctor wanted to perform an emergency C Section. I said no. Good thing because the baby popped out 10 minutes later. Yeah, better to wait in the waiting room.

    1. Of course you were useless. Lamaz is a scam perpetrated by the medical industry to make the husbands feel as though they have some control by being in the delivery room when the real point of it is to keep them out of the way so the doctors can do their job.

    2. The Doc could have had valid reasons. Maybe odds were higher for something bad to happen and he didn’t want to take any chances.

14. Practical advice for new fathers: if you must watch the birth, at least, behave like a man when you do it. This means:
    1. Let the woman be the most nervous person in the room, she is the one in possible medical danger;
    2. Don’t faint;
    3. Don’t look like you were cornered in a dark alley by a gang;
    4. Smile: you accomplished your biological function number 1;
    5. Remember you are the «pater familiae» now, you are an authority, and that is YOUR family; assume power, demand respect, show rational behaviour (there is already a mother for the sentimental role).
    Remember, there are relatives, nurses and doctors watching you. You’ve just built a family, avoid starting the pile of mistakes.

    1. …and don’t cry like a girl.

    2. What man does those things? Have you been watching too much tv?

       1. “What man does those things?” In Europe, I’d say 80% of them. As I said, I have professional experience in the field (it’s part of our training as doctors, before specializing; in my case, I further volunteered to work in a developing country, and as a result, had a lot more experience in OB than usual).

          1. Ahh, ok. Gotcha.

          2. I’m a midwife in UK and I have never seen anything other than disposal into medical waste (although some keep it attached to baby until it naturally falls off). Animals eat it to hide the scent of the new born from predators. Unless there’s some raging baby eating predators on delivery suite we just bin that slimey sucker

    3. But what do you do with the placenta?

       1. Dry it, chop it up and smoke it.

          1. Obviously it is a Kratom equivalent.

       2. I honestly don’t care about that… there are those who eat it, ubercautious parents who freeze it for future self transplantation and cell cloning, but in most cases, it’s medical waste.

    4. Great. Now when I will be starting a family, I will be anxious about not starting a pile of mistakes. Way to go.

       1. I guess.
          The same applies when starting a new job, meeting a girl, writing or creating something of your own, etc. Facing those challenges, 3 alternatives are given: do them; have feelings about them (anxious is a feeling); retreat into nothingness. Curiously, the 2nd, if taken for too long, is a straight shot to the 3rd one.
          An adult man doesn’t run away from responsabilities, especially if they are in the path to success (and each one is free to say how to get there).

          1. I guess my point is that fear of failure is not necessary.
             Nobody’s perfect and everybody fucks up here and then. Better to accept it than to fear it. Fear either paralyzes or drives you into irrational impulsive actions.

          2. I didn’t bring fear into this on the first place, but we can fully agree on that.

          3. I assumed it, based on “avoid starting the pile of mistakes”. If that was incorrect, nevermind.

15. When I was being delivered, my father went out to get food because he was hungry.

    1. I did that right after my twins were delivered this past December. Hardee’s makes a mean burger for fast food crap.

    2. I was a bit harsh in my commentary. Early morning coffee plus keyboard is a bad combination. I have been fired from jobs because of that. Trolling has a downside.
       You need to have kids and be with your woman when she delivers.
       All of you would make great dads.
       The one thing I have realized in my old age and why I love children is this : they live in the now.

       1. Elmer!!!!!!

          1. That’s what the ladies be sayin’ when old Elmer comes around. The white support socks and crisp new hat complete the ensemble.

       2. It’s funny that we adore children for living in the now, yet work to our fullest effort to destroy their capability to do this. And once we have broken them, they become old and nostalgic like us, thinking back to a confidence they may have once possessed.
          If you people think kids are great, then don’t fucking ruin them. Because living in the now is not something that is exclusive to kids. It’s the fucking normal way to live.

          1. <<o. ★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★:::::::!!bt706p:….,…

       3. morning coffee and keyboard is a bad combo LOL

       4. This is a weak article and trolling it is logical.
          How about this for a solution. Do what YOU want to do and what YOU believe makes best sense for the birth of the child. You want to stay in the delivery room fine, you want to leave fine. A man who is about to become a father can decide for himself.

       5. i have never, ever, ever, ever heard of a civilization collapsing because men weren’t “in the delivery room”. I have never, ever, ever, ever heard of or seen ANY sort of psychosis, mental, spiritual or emotional disorder, lack of maturity later in life, or physical infirmity because the father wasn’t “in the delivery room.”
          You’re pimping sentimental hogwash.
          Hang out in the living room. Go for a walk. Wait in the hospital waiting room or the hospital cafeteria. If you have a good relationship, she knows you’re “there” for her, because you’ve shown that up to that point anyway. You don’t need to be sticking your face in her two-foot wide gash while she’s screaming bloody murder. Let her mother, aunts, the wet nurse get her through that, see that. It does you NO good to do so.
          No woman in her right mind would really want you to see her like that anyway.

          1. Where did I imply that civilization would collapse if men weren’t in the delivery room? Your anecdotal observations on psychology are equally useless.
             I delivered both my sons and it was a great experience.
             If the sight of a woman’s vagina frightens you then stay in the waiting groom. A female-empowerment show will be on the big screen and you can peruse some tattered copies of “People” magazine. And there’s always your smarty phone to provide comfort and reassurance.

          2. Now you’re obfuscating. Here’s your quote: “You need to have kids and be with your woman when she delivers.”
             Need. Need. Not, “I recommend it, it worked well for me.” Not, “it’s a valid option for those who have thought it through.” Not, “hey, it’s one of many good options, including not being in the delivery room if you feel it’s not wise to do so.”
             Nope, you said “need.” As in, if you don’t, then you’re a bad father and bad husband. As in, it’s your duty as a husband and father to be in the delivery room.
             Apparently you do not understand the meaning of the word “need.” It suggests that NOT doing so will result in damage. See, when we “need” things, then NOT getting them will actually cause serious problems. Like, for example, we “need” water and food. If not, loss of energy, sickness, possibly death.
             So yes, Mr. Fudd, you were implying dire consequences. My argumentation included showing how faulty your logic was by showing that there is NO correlation to ANY dire consequences, short or long-term, to ANYONE, if the husband or father is absent from the delivery room.
             You might want to look up “need” in the dictionary old-timer. And either change that word, or change it to “a doctor or trained professional” needs to be in the room. Because yes, the likelihood of bad things happening that are detrimental to mother and child are raised considerably if a trained professional is not in that room.
             Is there an increase in potential damage if the father is not in that room? No, none. Hence, no “need.”
             You may advise it, by all means, go for it. But don’t sit there and say you didn’t say what you actually did say.

          3. You are damn right.

    3. Some soft-ass may say that’s a detached/neglectful thing for a dad to do, because that’s the way it is “these days.” Instead, I’m going to take a wild guess that you have a terrific relationship with your father, and that you two bond by laughing about stuff like this.

       1. I’d say that neither follows from his statement.

          1. Randomly assuming things are positive as a means to connect to the author.
             My dad and sister went down to the hospital cafe for breakfast. This is in the 1970s, BTW. When they came back up to the room, I was already delivered. Whether that was intentional or not doesn’t matter — he was heeding some sort of instinct.
             Corey’s story reminded me of my own birth day (as told by both parents). There are several genuinely wry and funny family in-jokes linked to that event, mostly to remind me I was more important than bacon and eggs — or am I? ;^)

          2. Heh. I was being too “scientifiic” in my analysis, I suppose!

          3. I usually think the same way…instead came winging in from some abstract angle.
             I’ve just embarked on a phase that includes being more engaged and productive in my online replies this year. I previously gave it less attention (like most people, I’m super busy elsewhere). ROK knows a thing or two about the brightest/darkest corners of modern mankind’s SOP and I respect the “art” in the analyses here, in general. I think Corey and some of the other writers/posters here attempt to get to the heart of the matter, they share themselves in candid and relate-able ways, and deserve complimentary replies IMO.

          4. Heh. You put a lot of thought into that. I usually just write whatever comes to my mind. Sometimes it’s rubbish. I don’t mind. 🙂

    4. I went home and took a nap…..I was tired. Bitch was in labor FOREVER!

       1. YOU were tired? You weren’t the one trying to deliver a baby!

          1. I wouldn’t be tired IF I WAS IN PAIN! I wasn’t in pain! I was TIRED! Boo Hoo. You carry us for 9 months….we carry you for a lifetime.

          2. Way to go big man. Bitch probably had her eye on that alpha doctor anyway.

       2. Probably wasn’t yours anyway

    5. The choices for the modern married man whose wife gets pregnant are total jerk asshole mode, tell her to go it alone… and literally you are leaving your treasured wife and unborn child to the hands of the medical system and complete strangers. She’s highly unlikely to have an adequate family support system in place to handle the next 3-5 years. Or you can use clown mode and opt out of basic baby tasks on the grounds that you are too stupid. Or on some level you become surrogate mid wife and nanny, simply because there is no one else to fill that roll without walloping out $20-30 an hour for a 24/7 team of professionals. Before you criticize men for helping their wives, put your money where your mouth is and pony up 20k a month for paid help.
       A woman having a baby is a huge work that she cannot do alone. Back in the day her mother, your mother, her sister, your sister and or various cousins, aunts and other trusted female family members would become involved, not just in the pregnancy and birth but in the next 10+ years of childcare. The first 5+ years being extremely demanding, far more than 1 single human being can manage on their own.
       Roll forwards to 2000+ and most women have not been educated in this field at all. They get important sounding educational titles, even more important sounding corporate careers, but all of them are clueless about under taking a basic biological function that even a sewer rat can manage.
       It amazed me to see how the British healthcare system literally spams pregnant women and their baby daddies with information, advice and free classes on breast feeding. Meanwhile down on the farm, daisy seems to have no such difficulty getting the calf to suckle her udder. What does this mean ? Are human females more stupid than bovine females ?
       The reason that men are more and more involved and more and more families fail, is because the family unit was dead before it even started… A couple cannot go it alone….. A woman can’t just get pregnant, take 6-12 months of maternity leave like it’s a sabbatical to visit the local library and write a second thesis…. and then run back to work. It’s a massively demanding undertaking and the reason that many well intentioned men get sucked into helping out is BECAUSE THERE IS NO ONE ELSE.
       The choices for the modern married man whose wife gets pregnant are total jerk asshole mode, go it alone… and literally you are leaving your treasured wife and unborn child to the hands of the medical system and complete strangers. She’s highly unlikely to have an adequate family support system in place to handle the next 3-5 years. Or you can use clown mode and opt out of basic baby tasks on the grounds that you are too stupid. Or on some level you become surrogate mid wife and nanny, simply because there is no one else to fill that roll without walloping out $20-30 an hour for a 24/7 team of professionals. Before you criticize men for helping their wives, put your money where your mouth is and pony up 20k a month for paid help.
       It’s mainly the selfish, divorced, baby boomer generation that broke the family unit, because they’d rather go play golf than help their own children when it’s their turn to have children of their own. The family unit is broken… no one stands a chance. The modern idea of a grand parent, uncle or aunt is to take all the fun side, the odd trip to the beach or fill in a bored Christmas day, and none of the hard yards when the chicken pox hits, or the wifey needs a C-section.

       1. Just send her out into a field and let her poop it out.

          1. Ah yes, just like in the good ol’ days when 20% of babies would die before they turned 1, and the majority of those deaths would occur during or shortly after birth.

          2. making a joke, friend.

          3. Well, in that case, allow me to continue your theme (the following is best read in a thick Yorkshire accent):
             A FIELD? LUXURY! Back in my day, t’womenfolk’d ‘aff t’give birth down t’pit while dragging t’cart full o’t’coal – uphill both ways, mind! They wouldn’a stopped workin’ for such a minor complaint a labour neither; they woulda carried on pullin’ t’cart 25 hours a day 8 days a week for tuppence a year. same as always. The nipper woulda grabbed a pickaxe and stated digging soon as he took his first breath too; none of this modern ‘being a baby’ nonsense back in our day!
             Aye, we ‘ad it tough! Kids these days don’t know they’re born!

          4. Northern bastard.

          5. Southern Softie.

          6. How very dare you!

    6. “When I was born, I come out sideways.” points to anyone who know this movie reference

       1. Planes, Trains and Automobiles

    7. Delivered? Like a slice of pizza?

    8. He sounds like the greatest.

16. So, the article quotes a British doctor. My first child was born in a British hospital, you know who wasn’t in the room?
    A doctor.
    It’s mostly mid-wives that actually deliver the kid. Not a Dr, there’s one on call but our guy never even stepped into the room. Just a nurse and a mid-wife and me. So I’m wondering in this guys career how many of those births was he the ‘dr of record’ without actually having done anything other than get reports from the mid-wife and nurse?

    1. For an uneventful pregnancy, that might be right in some hospitals.
       Risky pregnancies are always assisted by an obstetrician, in the UK.
       Source: me, a british doctor (presently working somewhere in the EU).

       1. We were at Dorset and that was explained to us as being the standard practice from the beginning of the pregnancy. Exactly what we saw being done for all the women while we we there. You’re correct in that there were no complication at all to the pregnancy. Had a friend in London, can’t remember the hospital but he/his wife received the same care. Mid-wife for pre-natal and the delivery. Dr in the ward but didn’t participate- but in his case the Dr. popped in a couple times.
          ETA: Obviously, there could have been some emergency with another woman that the Dr. was focused on and a better use of his time. No way for me to know.

17. I recently saw some documentary footage of a birth with the father in the room. As soon as the baby was born and the cord was cut the doctor held it up so the father could take a photo of it. I guess you can’t start them on social media attention whoring too early.

    1. I had that very discussion with my wife who’s in her fourth month. Told her flat out not to post pics of the fetus until after it’s born, washed and brought home. She listened, but unfortunately my sister didn’t.

       1. The posting of pics on facebook is such poor taste. Again, the taking of photos, especially of a newborn child is completely taboo and off limits in many primitive cultures. Apparently, it’s akin to robing/stealing their souls?

          1. risking your newborn’s soul in exchange for upvotes…
             satan was clearly an “angel” investor in most social media stocks…

          2. According to American Indian tribes yes, especially the ones from the great plains to answer your question.
             The simple reason I don’t want any photos that I don’t approve of, is Zuckerburg’s ability to sell any image he deems fit to the highest bidder. Additionally Google is storing a huge amount of images for whatever reason. I don’t want any child of mine to be a part of that.

          3. agreed. all, and I mean all, of your uploads/posts are belong to Zuck; why would you agree to such a thing? What they wanted to do, a few years ago(although Ive yet to see it on fb) was sell your image to an advertiser(eg, youre holding a Heineken in your hand in a picture). Think like seeing an an ad, targeted only to your friend list(“Bourbonman drinks Heineken! click here for more info.”)

          4. Yeah I haven’t seen anything like that yet either, but that doesn’t mean it hasn’t been published in some other country. For all I know, there’s a pic of my friends and I at a bar that was sold to some magazine that targets 20 something’s. I’ve never been a tinfoil hat type, but the whole bit of all your pics belong to us is a great way for the feds to gather information about you.

          5. Bourbonman drives a ford focus. nothing turns a woman on like a 4 cylinder engine. click here to be more like Bourbonman.”

          6. Taking photos takes you out of the moment. I think it’s unnecessary. I deleted and threw away most photos from my life and did not regret it ever since. Fuck those “memories”.

          7. I hate the way people destroy important moments by “capturing” them on their phones, especially in places that are scared like in a church or in front of a great picture in a gallery. It was standing in front of a Rembrandt picture in the Rijk museum in Amsterdam last year and enjoying the moment when some dickhead with a camera phone on a stick told me to move because he want to take a selfie of himself and his chick in front of it. I told him to fuck off which really surprised him, but, what else could I say about this intrusion and lack of consideration? I hope he learned a lesson from my reaction.

          8. Heh. Well, on a deeper level, the man with the selfie-stick was as sacred as that picture. I don’t think anything can be “more sacred” than anything else. That said, I think that while it may not have disturbed me as much as it has disturbed you, I think that the man personally robbed himself of a deeper experience.

          9. I don’t agree that all people and things in this world are sacred. It completely neutralise’s what that term denotes. We don’t live in a value free universe where we can apply the magic wand of numinosity onto everyone we meet. Ignorant, crude and cruel people for example can never be described as holy, besides the sacred belongs more to objects and places than people. So I don’t agree on a few different levels with what you say, and perhaps some people cannot experience anything more deeply than the given projected through the screen of their phones?

          10. Alright, then we disagree on this one. 🙂

          11. I wrnt to the nederlands a few years ago for 3 weeks. Didnt take a single picture.

       2. Reminds me of this stupid old hag on Facebook. She basically got into an argument with someone about whose kids are disabled (check your privilege kind of thing). So, to strengthen her argumentative position, she posted a photography of her disabled daughter in that comment section.
          Best to never even take pictures. A baby can not protest and say no its mother, when she takes a picture. A baby is not the property of its mother and if the mother is to have pictures of it, the baby (or later, person) should be aware of this and agree.

    2. He must of wandered in there to catch a Pokemon

18. In many cultures it’s still completely taboo as it brings bad luck to all concerned if the husband enters the woman’s space during childbirth. Apparently, the entrance outside the tent is guarded by the oldest crones in tribal villages who’ll hiss and even spit at any male who attempts to enter.
    I think it’s a taboo we should re-introduce.

    1. After reading the other comments on here, I must conclude that it is a moronic tradition.

19. “And, given that the key to eroticism is a degree of mystery, I am left believing they had a point.” Good for you Doc, acknowledging that the accumulated wisdom of ten thousand years of experience and interaction could carry more weight then the indignant screeching of women and children shows real progress. Nothing quite like a modern male.

20. I remember an article on this site about a guy who actually delivered the baby himself. I can’t remember the title but the idea was that it’s a masculine thing to do.
    Leave the young kids to the woman and here’s another advise from a father of three – sleep in a separate room, let the woman come to you for sex.

21. Wtf!!! Men actually watch a baby being borned!!!! What’s next, men inserting and removing tampons!?!?!

    1. Black women want their husbands to help take their weave on amd off

22. “Once you realize this, you will understand why so many women want their beta-provider husbands in the delivery room. They are trying to destroy the intimacy of the marriage. What better way to do this than to have her beta provider (a man she has no passion for anyway) watch her vagina open bigger than the Holland Tunnel?”
    LOL so true. I find your hypothesis that females to to make themselves repusive to their beta schlub husbands very interesting.

23. ” The United States is filled with postpartum centers, meant to assuage female grief. But we never hear that men can—and do—suffer a postpartum depression.”
    I think that is the moment when he knows he’s done. Say goodbye to her once nice, firm, cock hugging gong. Say goodbye to her beautiful figure (though some women manage to get it back after childbirth). Say goodbye to being able to have regular sleep, say hello to financial slavery in a dystopia. Say goodbye to whatever freedoms you once had.

24. ATTENTION:
    My wife is unironically a 9.5/10. She wanted me to watch her give birth and ever since the images have been burned into my mind.
    Blood, a little bit of poop. Her grunts and seeing her sweat.Her vagina being opened up.
    MEN, listen to the old wisdom – DO NOT be in the room while your wife is giving birth!
    It is a “miracle” but not one you need to witness every gory detail of!
    It has destroyed our once flourishing sex life.

    1. Good god…… you mean she also lost control of her bowels in the process? I think you make a strong argument not to be there while the miracle takes place.

       1. http://www.parents.com/pregnancy/giving-birth/labor-and-delivery/pooping-during-labor/

       2. It’s just shit …

          1. Pretty foul though.
             

          2. I think it’s beautiful. The turd is like … a minor annoyance, but hardly important.
             The only thing that bugs me about it is the thought that I was once in my mother … shudder.

          3. Aye-muddahfuggin-carumba.

    2. If my husband and I wanted children, I would not want him to be present during the deliveries. I’m old school so I believe in preserving some mystery.
       I don’t even let my husband see my used menstrual products in the garbage. Why on earth would I allow my husband to see my dilated vagina and possibly watch me poop? Not every natural process needs to be shared with others…especially the disgusting parts of being human.
       We choose not to have children because of the high incidence of disabilities in our respective families. My husband and I have escaped the awful genetic curses but we don’t want to take the chance of bringing disabled children into the world.

       1. As long as you ensure you’re taking in enough high quality fats, b-vitamins, amino acids and minerals your baby should be fine. Most diseases are caused by nutritional imbalances. Seems like a simple premise, but it’s true. Send away a hair sample to find your nutritional deficiencies and good a battery of blood tests done. Adjust accordingly.
          A baby is like a plant. If the soil is rich, the plant will flourish.
          Good on you though, for wanting to stay traditional. My hat’s off to you.

          1. A healthy diet cannot stave off strong genetics. I understand and appreciate your advice though.
             I find that having traditional beliefs makes my marriage much better. Clearly defined roles leave no room for confusion. That’s why the world is so topsy turvy just now; we have women being told to behave like men and men being punished for being male.

25. I was coming into this article thinking this would be some nutty bollocks that is digging looking into things to much, but this was actually a really good article, kudos to your for changing my opinion.

26. ” The United States is filled with postpartum centers, meant to assuage female grief. But we never hear that men can—and do—suffer a postpartum depression.”
    Postpartum depression for men is the moment when he knows he’s done. Say goodbye to her once nice, firm, cock hugging gong. Say goodbye to her beautiful figure (though a small percentage of women manage to get it back after childbirth). Say goodbye to being able to have regular sleep, say hello to financial slavery in a globalist dystopia. Say goodbye to whatever freedoms you once had.

    1. The Donald was able to rack up quite a gaggle of kids and yet still has the time, money and energy to run a successful company and a Presidential campaign.
       Having kids only “betafies” men if they let it happen.

       1. Isn’t his wife not his first?

27. Another thing that I hear from men who are fathers – is that when the wife is in so much pain as she is giving birth, she’ll start screaming harsh insults at her husband, calling him names, teling him what a horrible man he is etc etc. And though she may not mean it (one hopes given this day and age) it is still the kinda thing that sticks like luggage to the psyche of him.

    1. Heck I don’t blame her, I cuss like crazy at far less. Its just the pain, I would laugh it off.

28. When the time comes I’m gonna say, welp, nothing left to do but get drunk

29. If your wife is undergoing an extremely traumatic experience in an impersonal environment such as a hospital, don’t you think she would benefit from your presence? Don’t give me that horseshit about the woman being less stressed if the husband is absent; she already has complete strangers looking at her lady parts while she writhes in agony. You think she’s suddenly going to get all stressed out cause you’re in the delivery room? Don’t you want to keep an eye her? See your child come into the world? And I would think if watching childbirth makes you lose interest in sex, there probably something wrong with you anyway. My dad made 7 children, and he watched every one being born. I’m not a father yet, but I don’t plan on washing my hands of the whole affair and waiting for my wife to deliver like I’m waiting for soup to heat up.

30. I think the honorable thing for our species to do is to deny our programming.
    Stop reproducing, walk hand in hand into extinction – one last midnight, brothers and sisters opting out of a raw deal.

    1. An appeal to a collective hara-kiri? Too eschatological for my taste, my good Monsieur. This life still has some light in it and hope in the future is a strange amalgamation of personal value and youth. I urge you to resort to both. Humanity needs your legacy in a variety of ways, my friend.

       1. It was a quote from True detective.
          Still, it would be a happy ending. The victory of the soul over our animal programming.
          I really don’t care about humanity, as a biological entity. I only care about what is above it.

          1. If you care about what is above Humanity, you’ll care about perenniality and purpose. Perenniality is impossible for the individual, but not for the family (the closest biological entity). Purpose… if God created us as His, he wanted us to exist. To break the chain would be in opposition of the Will of the Maker (there are equivalents of this idea for almost all religions).
             Moreover, to make a child can be a victory of the soul by itself, if you find your right female counterpart…

          2. Nah, people just rationalize their instinct, and it’s always funny and depressing at the same time to hear.
             In the Catholic tradition it’s clearly established that celibacy is superior to marriage and children. I’m not the one breaking the spiritual chain with my ancesters, quite the contray, I feel I’m doing more to perpetuate it through my deeds, than are doing most Christian families nowaday.
             Each and every one of your action has an irreversible effect on this world, and if you act virtuously, you’ll left a virtuous legacy through your deeds. It doesn’t matter if you’re forgotten : He will remember. And virtuous actions are a good in itself if Aristotle is to be believed.
             Biological perenniality is the lowest kind of perenniality. Most people take confort in the idea that they’ll live after death through their children. It’s quite pathetic. I seem to be the only one with the balls to face oblivion.

          3. Disagree. I don’t think anything that has ever happened or will ever happen is in opposition of the will of the maker.

          4. “In the Catholic tradition it’s clearly established that celibacy is superior to marriage and children” can’t argue with that, however, it’s profoundly anti-Christian (remember Gen 1:28 and 9:1), and probably evidence of early apostasy.
             The Aristotelic argument is valid, however, Aristotle always pushed for the individuals to achieve their full potential (usually on the field of education, but the greek ideal saw body and spirit as mutual reflexes, even those arguing the separation through metempsychosis). In such terms, to restrict your legacy makes you less you, or makes you less to the Universe.
             Your considerations about biological perenniality are subjective and personal, and I take a stance on its atipodes.
             “people just rationalize their instinct”- c’est vrai. But aren’t you also rationalizing your individualistic perspective or the circumstances in time and space which allow these considerations to be appropriate? Far from wanting to insult you, I know how hard can be social life for a man of intellect. And how we are always tempted to adorn pure limitations as monumenta gloriae. I hope I’m the one using a Post hoc ergo propter hoc here, and not you with your inner self…

          5. You are a compatibilist. I was always an incompatibilist. Once a libertarian, I have now entered in a hard indeterminist position, and not by lack of faith.

          6. I Googled compatibilism. It appears to say that free will and determinism are compatible. I would agree, although I am not sure if I would agree on basis of the arguments compatibilists make, because I have not read them.
             What I really just meant to say was: If God’s law does not prohibit something from happening, such a law does not exist.
             Consider, for a comparison, physical laws: We do not call something a physical law unless it is undoubtedly and in every case true. For instance gravity. There is no bloody way to disable the force of gravity. It is always there. It is a law that cannot be broken.
             Now, typically, Christianity seems to see God’s law as something akin to human authority: A law that can be obeyed or disobeyed. I think that this is an anthropomorphism and illogical.

          7. “The Aristotelic argument is valid, however, Aristotle always pushed for the individuals to achieve their full potential (usually on the field of education, but the greek ideal saw body and spirit as mutual reflexes, even those arguing the separation through metempsychosis). In
             such terms, to restrict your legacy makes you less you, or makes you less to the Universe.”
             Yes, true, and this is perhaps here that the Christian philosophy differs from the Aristotelian one.
             The spiritual legacy is deemed superior to the natural one. If I remember well, you can find that idea in Saint Paul’s writings, and then in Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas of Aquinas :
             “Virginity is more excellent than marriage, which can be seen by both
             faith and reason. Faith sees virginity as imitating the example of
             Christ and the counsel of St. Paul. Reason sees virginity as rightly
             ordering goods, preferring a Divine good to human goods, the good of the
             soul to the good of the body, and the good of the contemplative life
             to that of the active life.”
             So my considerations on biological perenniality are mostly rooted in that, and perhaps in my personal character as you stated :
             “But aren’t you also rationalizing your individualistic perspective or the circumstances in time and space which allow these considerations to
             be appropriate?”
             Maybe, maybe not. This idea, that I’m just rationalizing my character, crossed my mind many times. But I can’t really prove or disprove that I am or not rationalizing some innate and irrational part of my character.

          8. What is so bad about animals? I’ve seen animals with more personality and insight than most people… I think I need to get out of the woods now…

          9. Deep conversation we’ll have here and probably in misnomers if we don’t know each other very well. But I like a challenge.
             Let’s take your propostion: ” If God’s law does not prohibit something from happening, such a law does not exist.” And apply your example, of gravity. We can conclude that if your proposition is ALWAYS true, then, gravity doesn’t exist (remember “physical law unless it is undoubtedly and in every case true”). Why? The origin of Universe currently compatible with our knowledge in Physics, which includes the law of Gravity, states that the Universe expanded from its begining, and still is, in clear violation of the law of gravity, which declares that every 2 different bodies exert on the other a force of equal direction and converging vector, in proportion of their total mass. And we know the total mass of the Universe expands, in violation of gravity, with no known opposing force to maintain this course. This process applies to the whole Universe, for the whole existance of time itself. Gravity, a universal law that can be verified to act at any circumstances, is not observed by the vast amount of the Universe itself. So, we have an universal law of non macro-scale jurisdiction. And this has scientific implications, the biggest of them that there is no unifying theory of Physics and Quantum Physics (or of the fundamental forces of the universe, in another perspective; you might like to read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction ).
             So, your point is valid in the sense that we are not compelled by divine right to be subject of a law’s jurisdiction (as the Earth is not being functionally subject to Deneb’s gravity). However, if we accept one determined scale of human existance (in accordance to a message, a divine covenant), we are putting ourselves under that jurisdiction, and we’ll be subject to the consequences of our obedience. As a comet is not subject to Earth’s gravity UNLESS it approaches our planet enough to impact or have his route diverted.

          10. Heh. Maybe I should not have brought up gravity in particular, as I am aware of its problems. I believe the phenomenon you describe is currently attributed to the placeholder thing called “Dark Energy”.
              But my point did not really rely on the fact that gravity – as we know it – is a perfect law. Rather, my attempted proposition was that we can safely assume that the universe IS indeed governed by unbreakable laws, even if those have not yet been discovered.
              In physics, say, if our current “laws” do not predict accurately what we see, we do not say that the law has been broken. Rather, we say that the law was false from the get-go. Like in this example, we would say that our law of gravity was flawed.
              Apply this to morality. A moral law, if you want to be rational and if you accept my analogy to physics, should be a perfect observation of the laws that govern morality, not normative statements about what “should be”.
              Let me apply that physics approach to morality: We assume that God’s law is “Murder is forbidden.” But then we observe that murder does happen. Well, we say that the murderer has broken God’s law. I say: He has not. We simply have put up a faulty law and need to adapt it to reality.
              Another part of my belief here is that everything that exists basically IS God. All matter, all feelings, all thoughts, everything is God. And something that is made out of God can not create something that is Not-God. Because there would be nothing to create it out of.
              I would reject the concept jurisdiction as you propose it (anthropomorphism) and I apologize for having not further clarified my use of the gravity analogy.
              Moral laws as we know them, I consider to be a power instrument. Basically, it comes down to: If I can convince everybody that that which I am is “good”, everything that is NOT me, is “not good”. “Not good” basically means: Repressed, shamed away.
              The person most in accordance with the current/localized idea of “good” is the person with the most power in the hierarchy.
              You can clearly observe this in leftists as well as in patriarchys. Leftists say “victimhood is GOOD”, hence “victims”, however ironical that is, have the most power in today’s world. In a patriarchal system, the opposite is the case.
              Now, observe various cults and sects with strict and rigid rules about what is “good”. Sometimes they use different words than “good”. But even if superficially, some parts of the rules seem to usually stay the same (do not murder), a lot of it varies strongly. The most extreme case being the whole matriarchy-vs-patriarchy mind war.
              This strong variation and lack of coherency on a universal scale, to me, is a proof that even among humans, it is all merely a psychological power play.
              Now, Buddhism for instance makes more sense to me. It says: It is not “wrong” to murder, but Karma will come to bite you in the ass. And from my personal experience, this is kinda true and a valid observation of actual reality. In other words, it says: “You CAN do this, but you will have to deal with the consequences.”

          11. A retort would be impracticable, your arguments are completely valid.
              I see you in my former shoes, and maybe that’s why your perspective seems at the same time so familiar and disturbing. Ultimately, understand my (or any other’s) words as a permanent call from the Universe to reconsider your decision, if possible, in a future occasion. And hell, if you’re going straight for the big prize, at least build yourself a worthy legacy, a cathedral. This vast sea of human misery deserves exception from the gifted. May destiny give you the eggs for those omelettes!

          12. Season 1 — I’ll never forget this series. Every once in a while, a movie or tv program has the power to slightly alter the way I look at life itself, and this was one of them.

          13. I see…
              In a way, we are discussing semantics, here. There is a horrible tendency in the Western post-Ancient World to equate morals to ethics. My good man, since I read Nietzsche, Morals were down to what they are in my view of the world: a pavlovian social scheme of behavioural mass engineeiring. So, in that, we can agree. Morals are imposed by a majority, or a “kratos” of a dictator or a theocrat. Most of what they force you to do, even if based in “wrong” and “right” notions, are none other than “we all do this, do it yourself; otherwise, we’ll punish you”. You can thank the very popularity of the concept of democracy to a historically engineeered morality, as there are no logical ways of concluding a mob of politically, economically, financially and militarily illiterate people would decide their nation’s future more reasonably than a board of specialists (Plato’s proposal, which would make a lot more sense as a rival to democracy than Socialism or Fascism in our days).
              The ethical discussion of good and bad is too long to put in a few words. However, even if you reject it, there are no other ways to put this to words: if you follow a certain system, you are putting yourself under that “jurisdiction”. Even if it results in a somewhat solipsistic view, as you are somehow “creating” your Universe, you know any other than a personal ethic system would result of either a moral standard (originating in other humans) or a disperse, non systematic arrangement of precepts.
              I am a Neoplatonist in the way I understand the Universe. The Henosis, or as you call it, God, embraces the entire creation and all the behaviours and ideas are part of it, as it is above judgement. The Maker didn’t judge, simply created. But then, you have life (non-death) in the Universe, which is defined by different entities separated from the Whole, struggling, regenerating, dying, rebirthing in the Universe. In the Taoist cosmogony, you have Yin and Yang (which later influenced both Confucianism and Oriental Buddhism). In Hinduism and the Indo-European tradition, you have the Trimurti or the whole plethora of gods, as interacting forces.
              What the semitic dualistic “school of thought” did was to reduce the multiplicity of forces in the Universe to a dual system of antagonists (a gross mistake, to me), and then identify one of these duals (the “good”) with the Henosis (“God” of the monotheists) -> an even bigger mistake, as it makes the Universe unable to be understood. Why would a good Maker generate evil in the First place?
              I still have a sense of right and wrong, but not as a derivate from the absolute Good or the absolute Evil. They are simply the fitting way of me doing what is supposed in an Universe of multiple coexhisting, interacting forces and entities (of divine or human nature).

          14. Heh. Great comment. I think I can quite agree with the way you put things forward.

    2. I could go fo ra happy ending by a hot Asian masseuse. You know, one of those short ones with a nice thick native bush.

       1. Ah yes, the Bermuda Triangle bush. Anything that goes in disappears without a trace.

          1. Ha! The hell you been fuckin?

31. I want to know what lolknee think about all this.

32. I enjoy reading a lot of the things here on ROK but this one is just silly.
    I was proudly present for all 3 of our children’s births (the first by C-section and yes, I was in the theatre (worked in HC for 25 years so very little grosses me out).
    If you follow this advise you’ll be missing one of the most amazing things you’ll ever experience, that’s my 2 cents worth.

33. The chhaupadi hut is dual purpose and is not only used as a retreat for women isolating themselves from the community while menstruating, but the structure is also used as a ‘birthing shed’. If women ever claimed a reservation of their own, the humble Hindus got it right.
    https://images.justgiving.com/image/b1007b85-dff8-4d10-99ef-51b2c3f308e9.jpg?template=size1200x630face
    http://marieclaire.media.ipcdigital.co.uk/11116/000080fe9/3b06_orh100000w646/WaterAid-L4.jpg
    I’m sure they keep the place squeaky clean in there and fresh with cedar chips. When a prego woman enters the shed in labor, the mensing women clear the way curling up on the back bench and giving their support to the bullet biting sister as she grunts and pushes. They all do their slinky choo choo chhaupadi togetherness woman thing when a new one slides out. I’ve never been in there but that’s what I’ve heard. I’d want to be ANYWHERE else but in there. I’d be far and away, somewhere I can grab my dick and my balls in my own hand and howl to the glorious moon. At least I’VE got my balls in MY hand and not HER!! She’ll NEVER control my balls.
    And it’s squeaky clean in there I’ve heard. As spit clean as any whirlwind woman that knows her place can keep it. There may not be fluorescent lights in there and hot running water, but it preserves a culture that will outlive any civilized ‘utopia’ that smells like open douche pail.
    WHITE WESTERNERS NEED CHHAUPADI. Isn’t it high time WE WESTERNERS put our women where they belong? We’re westerners and we can do better than rock and stick huts for sure. Let’s build our own chhaupadi huts for our women and do it up to western code. We’ll put a little of that rennaisance flair that I guess passed over the mongol invasions due to geography and the clashes of dicks every different color and stripe with pussies of every other color and creed. It’s not enough to spit your culture out of your balls and run to the next village. We’re westerners by golly and we’ve always had the grandest architectural plans in our bones. Let’s get to work boys and do these chhaupadi sheds right. We’ve all watched enough Home & Gardening network so lets get the job done. WE MUST put our women in their place and we must continue to breed.
    The ‘plop n wash’ paddy – nice lines
    http://assets.dwell.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_photo/public/2014/03/06/studio-shed-palo-alto_1.jpg?itok=Zq-auX36
    ”You in there marge?” (yelling from the roof) ”It’s your sister. She’s bringing you some chocolates.”
    http://st.hzcdn.com/fimgs/f921af5901e59b29_7025-w400-h560-b0-p0–tradxtional-shed.jpg
    Or how about this one cupcake? You can take your poodle in there with you. Thank god they can have this one in there by January.
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c3/0a/9e/c30a9e998c6bc34ada0c1891ddffda70.jpg
    No one messes with the preacher’s wife.
    http://www.homegoods.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/4-101009283.jpg.rendition.largest.jpg
    I’ll run to walmart and get you some curtains for that thing before she blows babe. Hang in there and you’ll make till friday toots.
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/1a/70/51/1a7051857a74094db4a8e7c60d461c67.jpg
    Ooh la la. An art deco Bauhaus style frump for the frau. Guy’s got bucks. I bet this guy has his own helicopter pad on the place. Rag face feminists will get jealous when they see this one so feast your eyes you dumb bloody legged marathon running cunts. This one takes the cake.
    http://assets.inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2012/12/Shoffice-Platform-5-Architecture-1.jpg

34. Interesting. Good points.
    I think it should be a carefully weighed decision of the couple.
    Nothing more to say, really.

35. Interesting, from all the eastern movies i have seen ( aka non-Hollywood), if there was ever a birth scene, all men including the father would be sitting outside waiting for the news of someone coming out and saying “its a boy/girl” ” you are a dad”

36. My mother had her labor induced because her doctor was going on vacation. Turns out I was a little premature and almost died from breathing problems. So it isn’t too surprising that as a tot I was closer to my father, much to my mother’s jealousy. Probably helps that I looked him right in the eye about 10 second out of the womb.

    1. “My mother had her labor induced because her doctor was going on vacation.”
       You’re lucky she let you live at least. The modern, feminist, career woman would have had you aborted because you were going to “inconvenience” her vacation or career plans.

       1. I almost didn’t. Subconsciously I suppose I was conditioned to consider life a struggle. It would explain my angry youth.
          My parents were introduced to each other by their parents as a lark. They married young (around 21) and my mother was a stay-at-home until my brothers and I were all in school, and her job had her home shortly after we were.
          I’d like to think I was raised quite well, except my father is clueless with women. He just does what he does and it works. Oh, during arguments my mother will occasionally spout feminist nonsense (more so since facebook), but my father either laughs it off or ignores it. Quite spectacular, really.

37. No over-sharing — put down the iPhone camera and keep
    it off the Internet. The birthing should be more of an “inner sanctum”
    experience and not for public consumption.

    1. I thought #aftersexselfies were bad. But this is one another level of narcissism.

38. Don’t let your woman drive. It’s like the woman taking your lead. She’s not the pilot. Let her drive you around and she becomes like your mommy.
    http://www.arf.com.co/images/old-woman-driving-a-car-so-fast-thumb.jpg
    Men whose mommies cart them around lose their masculinity. The first sign that the masculine part of your brain is being eaten away is when you get carsick with the woman driving. LOOK WHO’S DRIVING.
    https://cdn.meme.am/images/300x/11477774.jpg
    Tell your woman (mommy) to pull over and switch. Put her in the back or in the passenger seat. If you observe young men being driven around by their mommies, you notice the men take on the characteristics of the one in the lead (driver). They’re long past the bouts of queaziness and car sickness and as a survival mechanism, their bodies have compensated by morphing to resemble the lead figure (driver).
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxA1WMRIUAEALfE.jpg
    They bounce along the ride with mommy all pookie faced now but sadly it’s too late to tell the bitch to pull over and switch. Listen to your body when it tells you to put that bitch in her place. No shit talk, just switch it bitch. ”You’re making me sick” tell her. I see some grown men shopping with their mommies also and if they’re not clinically autistic, they look very compromised and sickly. They don’t hit on girls in the store or anything. They just cow tow around with their mommy.

39. Interesting opinion and perhaps correct, but your argument is not convincing. First you cite a single source. Your source is offering his opinion, based on his observations, not on scientifically obtained evidence. While he is an authority on child birth, given his experience, his opinion is not supported with any research. It could simply be confirmation bias. He may only be recalling or stating cases that support his pre-existing opinion that men should not be in the delivery room.
    Examine his statements. Does stimulation of the neo-cortex prevent a woman from relaxing during childbirth? Even if it does, do words of encouragement, advice, and/or questions cause sufficient stimulation to create a problem? Do men produce more adrenaline when in the delivery room and does an increase in adrenaline production in the father elevate anxiety levels in the mother? Is there any evidence at all to support the statement that “interference” causes difficult delivery of the placenta?
    Point #2: The symptoms mentioned by Dr. Odent “men often take to their bed in the week following the birth, complaining of everything from a stomach ache or migraine to a 24-hour bug.” do not sound as much like depression as anxiety and increased stress. they also sound an awful lot like symptoms that might occur in any new father dealing with the sleepless nights and extra work involved in caring for a newborn. If these symptoms are in fact more common in men who attend the delivery, it could simply mean that these men are more likely to be more involved in direct childcare once the child returns home. Again, Dr. Odent offers no support for his observations.
    Point #3: Dr. Odent’s conclusion regarding sexual intimacy is not based on his experience (as you state), it is based on an old wives tale related to him by his mother. Again he offers no evidence to support his claim.
    I am certain that Dr. Odent has seen everything he claims to have seen. I am not calling him a liar. Each of his observations are likely to have occurred in at least some cases. However, he offers now evidence in support, nor does he discuss and refute any evidence to the contrary (and I’m sure there is at least some). To use this to make broad-sweeping generalizations that men should not be permitted in delivery rooms is foolhardy. At most, Dr. Odent makes a case that some men should not be allowed in delivery rooms.

    1. Well reasoned and argued. I had some of the same misgivings while reading this article.. even if I probably agree that fathers shouldn’t be forced or coerced by the current feminist culture into being present and witnessing the frankly quite gory and disgusting act of childbirth. Yes, it’s “miraculous” and all that.. but everything about life and the human body is “miraculous.” One doesn’t have to be present and witness every gory detail of childbirth to be considered a good father.

40. It’s the same that women will find it difficult to defecate with the husband in the bathroom. She’s so self conscious about how terrible her shit stinks and all the funny noises that comes out of her orifices.

    1. Truly. Whoever told us that women shit rainbows and unicorns and piss freshly squeezed lemonade is a lying sack of shit.

41. I deliver the babies myself. I put the thing in there. I mean business, and I’ll be there to ensure somebody else doesn’t fuck things up.
    You guys are really soft. All afraid of getting your hands dirty. Man the fuck up.

    1. But , but, vaginas are so icky! 🙂

       1. So why do you put your penis in there?

          1. It’s called biology. Either that or my seed goes on the ground.

          2. Well, I don’t know about you, but I have less qualms touching something icky with my hands than with the tip of my dick.

          3. Meh, I suppose you have a good point. Of course, with feminists running around, I can see why.

    2. Delivering dirties up the man bun, can’t have that. “The man who spears the animal should get its blood on his hands.”

42. I watched all three of my children’s birth.

43. I’m no expert on this as I don’t have or want kids so it will never be an issue I feel personally strongly about. However I have read articles on this before and think you are wrong to blame feminists, whatever you think of them many feminists believe the birthing room should be a female only zone. Your reasons for this may be different but basically you’ve no argument with many feminists on this score.

    1. Feminists believe the whole planet Earth should be a female only zone. Get with the program. These feminists should be like the Amazon women warriors and amputate their right tit. In fact, some women have done the double mastectomy because they believe they have the breast cancer gene.

       1. I’m sure some very radical feminist might do but I don’t think either of these things are part of the main stream movement!

44. I just want to point out that one reason why men use to be absent from delivery rooms back before the 70s is also because there was a higher percentage of mother and infant deaths than there is now.
    My grandmother was a midwife in the 50s-60s. She told me many times that men were kept out of the room because in the event of the mother dying some doctors would pronounce the infant stillborn, when it was in fact a live birth, with the opinion a man couldn’t raise a baby alone. The doctor would either turn the infant over to an orphanage, or they already knew of a couple that was barren and wanted a baby, or they disposed of the baby 🙁
    If you read more from Dr. Michel Odent, you find he begrudges and dismisses the technology used in hospital rooms…the same technology that has actually been used to save mother and babies lives over time. I read quite a few articles from him and part of a book. He comes across as a bit of a misandrist- almost a full blown feminist, pretty much hating other men in his profession while seeing himself as the last true general surgeon and practitioner of his field. His belief is that it’s in fact “mans” fault for all the difficulty that comes with birthing and its “mans” fault for the introduction of technology into delivery rooms.

    1. Wearing jeans keeps the woman’s thighs constricted and strapped. She should be able to do a split by time of delivery. Women in pants should be shamed. Fashion promoters push tight jeans onto tween school kids on up to college ho’s. Country western dress code requires women to lift drop themselves into bungee tight wranglers and shit kicking boots. These majority white C&W culture women are then instructed by the country pop music to break achey hearts, go on psycho pills, have kids by some cowboy, divorce rape him and make silhouettes of fucking some bastard behind the curtains as the cowboy dad cries like a beta at his dog in his front yard. . JFK (jeezus friggin kryyze)
       Firstly the jeans are for men. Let’s put our women back into dresses.

45. All valid points but nothing will keep me from being present at my children’s birth, should I get to have some one day.
    If seeing the vagina is such a big deal, just sit at your woman’s side and don’t look down there. It seems like most babies are cut out nowadays anyway.

46. I was raised in the 50’s/60’s. I had my first kid in 1982. I had always lived a free life and, as men of my day, I was not involved nor concerned about other peoples child bearing experiences and I was shocked to find out that it was damn near mandatory for me to be in the delivery room for ten hours. I had always envisioned it being like a 50’s movie where the nurse comes out and announces “it’s a boy!”. So, I went in there and accomplished zero. But I fulfilled my obligation of being a new age, hippie father. My next kid, with my second wife, was in’89. In order to be an obedient, modern, new age, father I had to pay to attend these worthless Lamaze classes, while tired during a work night, for twelve weeks. All we did was hold hands while the men told the women to breathe a couple of dozen times. Lot of good that did when the real event happened. “Sure, Hon, just breathe, that’ll do it for you”. What a joke! My wife had decided to have natural child birth and chose to have “wise, old Midwives” for the child birth. These idiots had a high school education with some community college certificates. All they did was repeatedly say “push, push”. And all I did was say, “breathe, breathe”. After 23 hours of that shit I demanded a real Doctor, who told us immediately that she was too small and would never pass a child naturally! So we had to have a C-Section! What a rediculous, wasted 23 hour experience of excruciating pain that was! Next kid, in ’93, we just waltzed in and had it C Sectioned in under an hour. Best experience of all of them.
    During all three of these births, except for demanding to see a “real Doctor”, my presence was superfluous and of little value. As the above article points out, my presence was mostly distracting at best and counter productive at worst. Granted it IS a big deal bearing a child and truly a wonderful thing. But in todays gynocentric world it has become big business and an obsession for todays pampered female, instead of an important, noble event and contribution to society. In olden days, pregnancy was considered a normal, natural and oft recurring condition for women, who as a community banded together to assure the successful birty of a new important addition to society. While men assured that the women and chikdren were

    1. I was having trouble with my Ipad and was unable to edit the end of the above comment. It should have ended with “while men assured that women and children were provided for”.

47. I plan to show up drunk as fuck after the kid is born and get escorted out of the ward.

48. It’s funny.. I was watching the new Roots series on TV (the one that’s been predictably PC-ified with “whitey men b evil” and nothing close to historical accuracy as far as West African slavery is concerned). Anyhow they showed the scene of Kunta Kinte’s birth.. his father tried to enter their house upon hearing his wife’s labor pains, only to be turned away by the village women at the door. He was finally let in when the baby was born. It was a rather quaint and touching scene.
    As the author points out, for most of human history, and still today in most non-Western societies, childbirth is strictly women’s business. Men’s only place at the birth was the start (i.e. 9 months earlier), and at the end when the baby started squawking. That’s why I find it curious that feminists would demand new fathers be present at the birth of their children, while at the same time demanding women’s male-free space. I suppose we’ll expect 3rd wave feminists to start kicking men out of maternity wards sometime soon.

    1. They want to rub mens faces in it. The old crones among them know of the pheromones that are emitted by the woman at childbirth which block certain receptors in the male brain. That’s the best way I can describe the emasculation we’re experiencing in the west.

49. I was there for the delivery of my 2 kids.
    I stayed out of everyone’s way and really did not need to be there. My wife wanted me there, but I don’t get why.
    I don’t recommend it in the least.

50. The only guy that I know that went into the delivery room said his “loving” wife abused him the entire time she went through delivery – to this day I fail to see why the man needs to be there.

    1. Yeah they bitch at you and scream ”why did you fuc%ing do this to me. You sonofa biiiitch. I fuc%ing hate yoooou”. . . on and on. That was my first wife for you. I said ” nooo, it’s not fuck me, it’s FUCK YOOO” I told her ”be happy with tears. It’s happy pain you’re experiencing. Daddy’s home is his roost pumpkin, and you’re coming home to it now. Isn’t it wonderful? Glory be God”. Women need to lick their chops and savor the excruciating moment because THAT’S what their life here on Earth is all about.

51. Solid points however you can count on the doctors to take advantage of the situation should there be a lack of an educated father in the room. Uneccesary and harmful procedures will be taken on the newborn such as circumcision. If the effects on the child aren’t enough motivation, the higher bill mat well keep you within earshot. Ideally you’d want all decisions made in advance to get the best of both worlds however this denies doctors theit opurtubism preying on the stressed new mom & dad.

52. The point about it causing depression in men is well taken. I’ve noticed this too with my buds who were there for the deliveries of their children, and always they go through a funk about it. At first, I thought it was because they were suddenly busy getting up, changing diapers, feeding and watching them in that first week or so, but then I realized it wasn’t all that because they were working and had no time to do all of that as their wives wanted. In this funk, which might last as long as a month or so, And I think this has to do with the mother’s attention being squarely focused on the newborn child, with the father not getting enough attention from her.

53. ” Remember that most women do not fight for male causes—they couldn’t care less.”
    I have been saying the same for years. Given the above, no man should ever give to female causes. If any idiot woman dares shame him for it, said man should point out that what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

54. This
    “Wait…who am I kidding? The average woman is indifferent to male suffering. Notice how silent she is regarding the high rate of male suicides, incarceration, or prostate cancer. Remember that most women do not fight for male causes—they couldn’t care less.”
    I had to learn this the hard way. In my last and only long-term relationship I had to use dread game, but as soon as I opened up a bit to my ex girlfriend, it all went south. She couldn’t care less about my tribulations at the time, let alone help me get through it. Thank you ROK writers, readers and contributors. I was blind, but now I see.

55. When it comes to the modern practice of childbirth in the US, husbands are the woman’s only advocate in the labor room. That is a fact. Watching a vagina part like the Red sea may be troubling. Risking her being crippled by an unnecessary C-section or an episiotomy which can affect the well-being of the family for a very long time. That includes financial issues, as well as sexual health.

56. Men belong wherever they want, the problem being only when mother’s and father’s wishes are different.

57. I do not agree. I would make it out in the room to be able to supervise the work of doctors , to see if they are being responsible . Also I take with me some kind of pen with special ink and an identification bracelet to mark so the child as soon as she was born.

    1. I strongly agree with both of your points.

58. Just let me know when its done
    “Don’t you want to be there and share the magical moment with your wi…”
    No. I’ll be in here waiting. Just get me when its done
    ………………………………
    Yeah. I’ll get shit for it but whatever. I wouldn’t want to be in there. I did my part and will have my whole life to help raise him or her to be a strong individual. I’m VERY sure me missing that won’t make me win “Worse Father of the Year” award.
    She’ll call me a asshole as will her family but, whatever. My Parenting skills will erase that easily.
    Do as you please or else you are at the mercy of someone else’s emotional hostage
    https://associationofchronos.com/

59. Primary reason – The man should be out working.

60. I was born just around when this transition was happening in society. My dad wasn’t in the delivery room when I was born. Heck, according to him he wasn’t even in the hospital. He took my Mom to the hospital, she was in labor for 12 hours, he went back to work and later to dinner only to get a phone call that I had been born. He didn’t even visit until the next morning. (Back then they cared about the health of the mother and not making a birth a social spectacle with endless streams of friends and family coming in and out of the hospital. So naturally they would tell people to let the mother and baby rest for at least 8 hours before visitors showed up).

61. Finally someone hits this topic. It is a disgusting idea that a father can take part in the birth. If the child is being delivered at home. That is another story.
    My child was delivered by nurses and brought out into the hall to introduce her to me the way it was done many years ago. That was beautiful and traditional.

62. Hmm, my son is being born in December if all goes well, so this is well timed for me.
    I have to say I hadn’t really thought about this much, but I have the idea that my wife would probably not be able to relax much if I were present.

63. Was there for birth of both my daughters. I was first one to hold them after the catcher. Have seen them now for less then ten hours in last four years after divorce. Not sure if participation made a difference. But it certainly didn’t help.

64. I think I would like to witness the birth of my child. Though I don’t want children if I did have one by some reason I would like to watch it.
    But all these points are gold information, it broke the brainwashing part of being present at one’s child birth need of me. And actually the woman feeling less pain sounds good.

65. Actually just about 20 years ago didn’t husbands stay in the waiting room?

66. I agree with most of this website….but this article is total bullshit.
    that child is yours too….I’d wager the ideal method is to have the father deliver the child especially if one wants to get technical end of the world about it….if it was just you two in the middle of bumfuck nowhere like it has been for countless centuries worth of couples, it’s the father pulling out the baby.
    hospitals are also complete bullshit and know literally all of jackshit about newborn babies….they cut the cord entirely too soon, often have the woman pushing up and fighting gravity, recommending c-sections and scheduling births, abortions, circumcision, not always pro-breastfeeding, they poke prod and test the baby as soon as it’s born when all a baby really wants is some mommy and daddy time and some milk from mom and a good nap, etc.
    i really could go on….hospitals are terrible places in this area.
    all that said….a father can stress out the mother if he is going to faint at the sight of blood or otherwise be an emotional wreck. if that is you, then well you arent much good. but then again as the man and father of your child, you should be more stable than that.
    get a midwife or two, do a homebirth, and keep a doctor on standby in case shit hits the fan(it usually doesnt)
    a lot of problems like postpartum depression exist because the father wasnt there, or the mom did breastfeed and thus the bond between mother and child got messed up, or mom was on drugs, or they circumcised(raped and mutilated their child) and other factors. it’s rather depression just because a child was born….thats also a bullshit myth.

67. I agree with the sentiment the article makes in that men shouldn’t allow others to pressure them into a level of involvement in their wives pregnancy they’re not best prepared and ready to handle, but let’s be honest here. If you’re a married man in our “modern” times, the odds are very good that you’re a man still deep in the psychological quagmire of blue pill thinking. Beyond that, I’m not in much agreement with the article. The writer isn’t experienced with child birth or marriage and not particularly qualified to advise on this matter. I always took advice on sex, marriage, and relationships better from the older men who had personal experience to retell than other single guys.
    In this instance, you have a man who’s family is expecting a new arrival. Blue pill or not, he will need help getting prepared
    mentally for the event of the birth. If he’s being pressured to be in
    the delivery room, then we men should put our weariness aside and provide that man with the support needed to enter that room best prepared for what will occur. When the child is born, we celebrate by giving the father a Cuban cigar and a mail away DNA test kit. If he finds the kid is indeed his, we buy a package of diapers to give the family as part of the baby shower and pool some money together to help start the kids college fund. We should be focusing on supporting the father in being better than he is on his own.
    Women are unashamed in working together, they even openly boast about working against the interests of children, their men, and family. It’s long overdue that men start rebuilding their pack mentality too. If you’re being pressured to be in the delivery room for your kids arrival, don’t panic. I’ve got your back.

68. It depends on the man. My wife wanted me there, gripping my hand the whole way, so I had no problem with it. However I would not recommend any guy who has a problem with blood. Picking you up off the floor doesn’t do anyone any good.

69. Disagree with this 100%. All three of our children were born in water at home, under the guidance of a midwife, into their father’s hands, and it was a powerful experience for all of us – me, him, our baby.
    While women grossly overstate how strenuous and painful labor can be, it IS a painful and strenuous process. My labors took 12, 36 and 8 hrs, and those were some physically challenging hours, let me tell you. They were also a bit frightening. The pain can be intense, especially near the end, although it was never unmanageable. Still, my husband’s calm presence was critical. He remained calm, and so did I. Quite frankly, I think he kept the two midwives calm, too.
    My husband describes catching the babies, bringing them up from under the water and being the first to speak to them as transformative. All three of our children were absolutely mesmerized by their father’s voice. They just stared at him. None cried or seemed upset or distressed when they were born. I put that down to their father.
    And as for having a sexual impact? Lol. Nope. If you pay attention to your Kegels, and maintain a healthy body weight both during and after pregnancy, give birth to a normal size baby (I’ll bet those 15 lb babies do some damage!), there is no reason for birth to have negative impact on intimacy whatsoever. For me, it’s rather the opposite. Makes me sad to think of not sharing those experiences with the man who played such a big role in creating them for me in the first place.

70. If you’re a man you are wrong according to everybody.

71. Here you go.

72. great article. everyone in their right mind knows that lasting and healthy relationships require certain amounts of space, of room for the individuals to breathe, think, as individuals, even as they are creating and living a life with a partner.
    The man being in the delivery room is too close. It is quite literally not giving the other person enough space. That is a woman’s world. Her man should not enter it. He can do nothing there, offers her nothing in that situation. And the risk of complications during and after that situation are great. Great risk, no reward. She can know he is supporting her by being somewhere in the hospital, in a room nearby, etc. The only man who should enter there is a trained professional, who is married already, who has no emotional connection to the situation. Better if everything is done with only women. They will know far better how to help her through the delivery than any man could.
    To be quite honest, not having any children myself, I cannot imagine, as a man, being able to actually stay, wait, patiently in a single room while such a momentous occasion was going down. I’d want to be outside or where I could pace around, get the nervous energy out, or just distract myself, settle myself, while being patient. Being in that room, for me, would be a nightmare. No thanks.

73. It isn’t about men when a child is being born. All that matters at that point is the woman and the child. If she wants him in the delivery room, he has a duty to be there. End of story. Also, that conspiracy theory at the end? You really ought to make a stand-up comedy show out of that.

74. Dafuq did I just skim through?
    The real problem here is two words: “Delivery Room”
    The next problem is that “Doctor” is the wrong person to be there. In a woman’s mind in this situation the doc is the alpha, not the husband.
    Solve both of these problems by using a midwife with a homebirth, and then be the fucking rock. That means shutting your trap and be silent, and anticipate needs. That’s what a fucking man does. He is prepared for what can happen (including transport. BTDT.), and has everything needed.
    His woman will see him as her leader, provider, and protector. That chemically imprinted memory will stay with her for a long time.
    Next, sex life? I’ve heard this canard from buddies of mine, and I laugh in their face. I fucking put that baby in there in the first place, I’ve gone down on it, etc. It does not bother me in the least. HTFU.
    Any natural birth position will not have you watching the baby come out, as a birth on the back is damn hard, and usually only happens in the Delivery Room.
    Last, as to the 20 years of baby jail:
    If you don’t want to procreate you accept that when you die, alone, there will remain NOTHING of what you did. It will be as if you never existed. You had no lasting purpose, no reason for existence, as you failed even the most basic biological imperative.
    Yes, kids are risky. AWALT too. Being a man is hard mode. But when you have a purpose beyond yourself, you are grasping at immortality. I seek to leave a genetic, material, and philosophic legacy, so that some part of my body, mind, and effort in life remains and grows. My offspring are going to show up to the fight, and they will walk off with the spoils if they survive. That’s risky too.
    In the meantime, the rest of you slacking purposeless meatbags enjoy the decline and get off my planet.

75. I guess I could be described as a ‘feminist’ but I always come to read this site because I’m fascinated by the view points. Often I even agree with some of them. I’m a midwife and have been to seminars with Michele odent and he argues a good case. However, I’ve seen many men in the delivery room and I strongly believe them witnessing birth creates a unique bond with their child which encourages stronger family units. Isn’t that what you kings want? I’ve seen couples come back time again, so I assume they’re not ‘disgusted’ by seeing their wives vagina stretched out like a bat wing? You know we do a pretty good job of tidying that area up afterwards. I pride myself on my suturing skills 🙂 As for postpartum depression in the male, of course we care about that, that’s our husband. Why would women not care? I spent my labour worried that my partner was bored, I would never want to damage him. Some men love the blood and gore. I’m not here to bash views or argue the toss. Just a little insight for what it’s worth. I like this site…although it often makes me chuckle how evil you all think women are. You all came from women, I’m sure some of your mums are just devine.

76. It comes down to your decision in my opinion. Decide for yourself on this. If you want your child delivered as safe and well don’t interfere, but if you want to witness a miracle and create a bond with your child treasuring the memory then by all means go there. Also weigh in health and psychology of your wife as well as her relationship with you. Being a man is about making decisions and taking responsibility anyway.

77. THIS IS SO TRUE!

78. You never see pictures of families anymore, just single mothers with their bastard children.

79. Well,if were”going back to the olde days” WOMEN mostly gavebirth at home. And if you wanna go back to the natural part of the old days_women gave birth by THEMSELVES with no epidural,No utlrasounds (which is harmful for pregnancy) and labor WASNT rushed and the baby came out when it wanted too, and wuz mostly painless and non traumatizing.Assisting its muvva in bir th. Im a white girl from africa-thats how I gave birth, even my cousins back in Norway thats how they gave birth. Which isnt hard if YOU and your baby(s) are healthy. So-i find it STRANGE that you first world niqqas have created,emabled and support the weak bitch mentality and exclusively pursue weak hoes over and other type of woman & wanna complain later. Lol-have you ever heard the saying ‘you reap what you sow’ YOU niggas created these hefers and “like literally” sowed(oops)/created these sickly ass children that needed a hospital birthing. Which even in “the olde days” your mother in Britain and USA only went to give BIRTH in the hospital if there was something wrong with the pregnancy,I.e.life risking severe complication. Anyway wha type of ‘broke hoes’ iz yall getting knocked up?!? Because what I heard all the real ones in the first world BEEN had their own health insurance,or is with a wealthy niqqa so MONEY isnt a problem for their child. They CAN afford it,lol. Hence,you reap what you sow hoes.hehehe

80. Add a wombmans perspective,I could NEVAR fvck with niqqa like yall. BROKE(cant afford you infant childs health bill,or take care of you pregant wife/significant other-Why are you in the relationship), dumb (created the weak hoes and it for you inyour asshole-unnecessary af and knocked them up tehhe) and SILLY. Dramatic bishes XD

81. Wow, a bunch of thin skinned faggots in the comments section making fun of the author because he offended them. Insulting him because they feel differently about something.
    Bunch of women. Keep your offence to yourself. And if you have to resort to teasing because of a difference in opinion, you’re not a man, you’re a bitch.

82. I just gave birth two weeks ago and can honestly say I couldn’t have done it without my husband. I did not pressure him to be in the delivery room, in fact at first I didn’t want him there because I was afraid it would affect our sex life like number 3 claims. With my husband in the room I was able to focus on the delivery and he handled the doctors. We wanted things done a certain way and our doctor and nurses were pressuring us to use more drugs etc. I was so out of it that I would have gave in to anything they wanted but thankfully my husband was there to make sure they didn’t take advantage of my weakened state. We are also anti vaccinations and made sure to take vitamin k during the pregnancy so that we wouldn’t have to give our baby the vitamin k shot (which is full of synthetics). One of the nurses took the baby and was about to administer the shot without my knowledge. My husband caught her and forced her to stop. Having my husband in the room was a huge blessing. He wasn’t distracting, had no symptoms of depression, and I can honestly say it hasn’t affected his sex drive at all. Again, I couldn’t have done it without him.

83. good article but long
    http://www.happymothersdaysquotes.com/happy-mothers-day-quotes-for-friends-everyone-2017/
    http://www.fourthofjuly4th.com/2017/03/fourth-of-july-patriotic-quotes.html

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