Why Cisgendered Straight Men Kill Themselves

The following article was sponsored by Tim Patten

Men struggling with issues of identity, purpose and societal expectations have a hard time getting the help they need. Unlike females, who have various resources at their disposal–many of them free–including women’s studies initiatives, government outreach efforts and nonprofit support programs, males have few places to turn. In most cases, the only assistance available is what they glean from certain publications or at websites where individuals who have been similarly affected offer support and insights.

For men who feel overwhelmed, being able to learn from and interact with those who are knowledgeable about or who experienced tragedies of their own can be a true lifesaver–literally. In fact, the lack of understanding regarding issues that have spurred an ever-growing rate of male suicide are one reason why millions of men are connecting with movements like the Red Pill, Herbivore Men and Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW).

Unfortunate, the fact that so many men are reaching like this hasn’t led to more widespread awareness about the immense struggles they face. Around the world, men are killing themselves, and yet there are plenty of people, such as Huffington Post writer Jane Powel, who don’t know why. According to Powel, “There are speculations on why men commit suicide, theories but no actual nuggets.” However, if she took the time to look carefully, she might understand why things have gotten to where they are. Sadly, her ignorance exemplifies that of society in regard to men and their place in today’s society.

There are, of course, many reasons why young men take their own lives. In some cases, it reflects the fact that they can’t come to terms with a gay or transsexual identity. Some are veterans who faithfully served their country but who were left scarred by mental or physical health issues or simply left out in the cold when they exited the military. Others are the downtrodden and the homeless, unfortunate souls whose feelings of hopelessness and despair have forced them to give up on life.

But while these are the rationales that many are familiar with, they are not the only ones. They don’t reflect the pain that tears at the hearts of a great many men–cisgendered straight males, in particular–who have been experiencing the dark realities of relationships with women, raising families, and playing roles imposed on them. By learning about the issues that have contributed to the suicide epidemic and using that knowledge in a positive way, we may be able to help save someone we care about from their own demise.

Four Life Events That Can Lead Men to Kill Themselves

For the most part, the circumstances that have fostered this disturbing state of affairs can be broken down as follows:

1. When men get married

Temple-Marriage

Men and women tend to assume different roles when adjusting to life as a couple. Men are expected to work and do whatever is necessary to make partners happy. Women have various duties they are responsible for, which may involve going to work, overseeing the home, or both. Typically, women negotiate relationships within the family, largely through verbal communication. However, that role often devolves into something harmful, where the goal is not to communicate but to control and manipulate. Experts say that toxic communications, such as when one person repeatedly nags another, can sink a relationship–or worse.

In fact, evidence suggests verbal aggression, bickering and daily arguments can have a seriously detrimental effect on men, perhaps because they tend to be results-oriented, and don’t benefit from venting their feelings through social interaction in the way that women do. Because men are preoccupied with others’ needs and are not communicative by nature, they often bottle things up and don’t share feelings with close friends or family, which can have adverse consequences.

In one study, Dr. Rikke Lund and colleagues from the University of Copenhagen followed 9,875 Danish men and women, aged 36 to 52, for 11 years. Over that period, 196 of the adults died from causes that ranged from heart disease and cancer to alcohol abuse-related liver disease and suicide. Men who said they faced “endless” demands from partners or who said things like “she won’t stop talking” with respect to partners were more than twice as likely to become ill and resort to suicide as the group overall.

2. When married men lose their job or a career

bad-job-interview-recover

Reports indicate that age discrimination, downsizing and outsourcing have had an outsized impact on middle-aged white men. The experience can be a dark, shameful and traumatic, engendering despair, depression and suicide. This stems from the fact that in many families, men are seen as a disposable utility whose primary mission is to cover bills, food, shelter and basic survival. Males are also assigned a Mr. Fixit role, responsible for repairing leaky pipes and attending to their partner’s emotional grievances–they are the shoulder to cry on.

But with this perspective comes the damage caused when that role disappears. The loss of a job can destroy a man’s self-worth because it is closely tied to his work identity. Regardless of how or why it occurs, it can lead to a situation where family roles are reversed. When that happens, he needs a soft, supportive shoulder and not to be told to “man up.” Without the coping skills necessary to adjust, males can fall into a dark place and contemplate ending it all.

3. When men divorce from their wives

divorce-decree

Every year, almost 800,000 American men are divorced; since no-fault divorce laws were enacted in 1970, over 50 million have endured oppressive splits initiated by their wives. Many husbands willingly put noses to the grindstone and dedicate themselves to providing for the home, cars, clothing and vacations. But wives are often quite willing to give that up, claiming they are unhappy, and seek custody of the children, half his assets, and child support payments.

When dropped into this bleak, dark vacuum, alone and often without any warning, many men find no one to turn to for support. Research indicates that they are four times more likely to kill themselves if they don’t get help.

4. When men fight for child custody

Novastock. The joy of a father's love in a family moment. father, son, child, silhouette,

When there is a divorce, it is not uncommon for a horrendous child custody mêlée to ensue. Up to 70 percent of soon-to-be-ex-husbands will be accused of having engaged in physical or sexual abuse, including molesting and raping their own children. While almost all of these sordid charges will be false, men must endure a painful and humiliating adjudication process or risk losing their parental rights. Even actor Brad Pitt was left feeling dumbstruck and anguished when accused of abusing his children amid a bitter split with his famous actress wife.

Unfortunately, even when husbands persevere and are proven right, it doesn’t necessarily mean much. Data indicates that women gain custody 60% of the time, which suggests the system is inherently biased against them. Needless to say, men who lose access to their children experience hopelessness and despair. For many, the final straw comes when somebody they don’t know is allowed to raise their sons and daughters with their ex-wives, leaving many believing that taking their own lives is the only option.

Help Your Man And Prevent Him From Killing Himself

Fortunately, things don’t have to end badly. Being aware of the issues and the potential consequences can go some way toward preventing something tragic from happening–before it’s too late. To ensure such a fate doesn’t befall a man you care about, consider the following steps:

Be aware of his situational demeanor. Is he giving away prized possessions, increasing drug or alcohol abuse, or withdrawing from relationships with friends, hobbies and social activities? Has he lost interest in his personal appearance? If he is trying to make such a heavy decision, his thoughts may spin as though moving through different channels. He may dwell or communicate about death, uselessness or suicide in various creative forms, including poetry, music, art, or writing.

Avoid certain natural reactions. Do not panic, criticize or react with drama or anger in the face of such circumstances. Avoid your own self-chastisement and don’t get caught up in the crosscurrents that can swirl through our minds, including:

  • “How could he do this to me (or us)?”
  • “I have to keep this secret.”
  • “Didn’t I love/watch/listen to him enough?”
  • “Will they try again?”
  • “If I pretend this didn’t happen, it will go away.”
  • “He is just trying to get attention.”
  • “This is not my problem – someone else can deal with it.”

Secure the environment. Remove all knives, weapons, pills and guns, as these are the means by which people commonly kill themselves.

Establish a connection. Prepare yourself to speak with him and consider what actions you might need to take. Communicate with him on his terms: if he is a problem-solver, athletic coach-type, or a Mister Fix-it, he may not respond or react well to touchy-feely questions and statements emanating from the feminine side of the brain, including:

  • “How are you feeling?”
  • “Share your emotions.”
  • “You look moody.”
  • “Why won’t you open up to me?”
  • “Can we talk about you?”
  • “How you doing?”

Instead, take into account how the masculine brain works and consider moving in a different direction. Among the things you might want to ask or say are:

  • “When did you start seeing an end?”
  • “Have you figured a way out?”
  • “Are there alternatives you’re considering?”
  • “What are you trying to solve?”
  • “Is there a way out of this situation?”
  • “Where is the end of the rope?”
  • “You’re not alone let me help decide what to do.”
  • “Tell me when you’re ready to give up.”
  • “Have you had enough?”

Hopefully, he will open up, and maybe even admit, “Yes, my life is over.” But that doesn’t mean you should tell him he is wrong or flip into caring and supportive mode. Instead, just keep talking. Probe him with questions such as “When will you do it?” and “What’s the plan for ending it?” Allow him to experience the full impact of his thoughts and words. Eventually, as the gravity of what he has in mind sets in, his mood should change.

At that point, ask him if he needs help.

Getting Help

Remember, time heals most, if not all wounds. Situations change and when they do, so will his mood. If the issues are largely financial, there will almost certainly be some sort of safety net available–staying with a friend or relative, working things out with those who can supply critical necessities, or even applying for welfare and food stamps.

Of course, as long as he appears vulnerable, don’t leave him floundering on his own. Stay in contact, keep tabs on what he is up to and, most important, talk to him. If you sense that things have reached a more troubled state, take action and encourage him to seek professional help. If he has a therapist, put in a call–on an emergency basis, if possible. Otherwise, encourage him to see a qualified male psychologist who can assist him with life decisions, rather than a psychiatrist who may only be interested in giving him medications. While it can be difficult to intervene, try to discourage him from taking anything but anti-depressants.

Should there be any sign at all that his situation is becoming critical, have him contact a local suicide line; alternatively, he can try the national suicide hotline number at 1-800-273-TALK (8255). If that doesn’t work, contact 911 and ask for immediate assistance. Medical professionals may decide he needs to be in a secure setting for his own protection. While he may not be happy about this, which might even involve a hold of three days or longer, it is certainly better to see him upset than gone for good.

Find more information here. After such disturbing events, some men have tapped the online MGTOW community for ongoing support, healing and comradery. Encourage him to do the same.

About the Author

Tim Patten has published the handy investment guide: MGTOW, Building Wealth and Power. He also wrote WHY I CHEAT11 campfire stories for men’s ears only. Both books are a celebration of masculinity and pay homage to the modern men’s liberation movement. Patten previously published a novel about establishing gender equality in professional sports, Roller Babes: 1950s Women of Roller Derby. His coming out biography is titled My Razzle Dazzle and published under the pen name Todd Peterson.

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299 thoughts on “Why Cisgendered Straight Men Kill Themselves”

  1. Hard rock/metal makes wonders for me exorcising my inner demons and frustrations. Its highly therapeutic to me. Start with Pantera.

    1. Kind of related… Did you see Avenged Sevenfold’s new music video they leaked this morning? It features a nice segment of Hillary, Merkle, and company as puppets to the NWO. The music video ends in nuclear winter.

      1. Every type of art as a goof effect on a mans soul. It can be opera, hard rock or simply reading or look at a painting from a famous artist.

        1. Indeed. In this regard, “The Origin of Tragedy” by Nietzsche, had a deep impact on me and how is see Art.

        2. Nietzsche makes a deep study of Greek Tragedy and, in the process, blows your mind on human condition and what makes us click regarding Art and Beauty…Mind blowing book. Read it when you can!

        3. When I say ‘someday-maybe-read’ list, I admit I am partly doing it out of politeness. I do have such a list, but I mostly just write on it, almost never really dig out stuff from it.
          I am sure it is a great book, but when it comes to reading, I tend to follow my gut. I rarely read books and when I do, it’s because I have a very strong intuition that I need to read this particular book. An example of this is the book ‘Language in Thought and Action’, which I just felt I must read to follow through on my life path. I did and it was absolutely necessary for me to do it, as I see now.
          Maybe it’s just a quirk about who I am. I don’t know. When I don’t feel I absolutely need to read a particular book, I don’t.
          Other times, I feel I need to take a look into a book. Then I glance over a few pages. And it’s absolutely necessary that I do, but no need to read the whole thing.
          Other times, it’s enough for me to simply hear that a particular book exists. I can imagine what it’s about and although reading it may provide further insight, I feel I do not really need that deeper insight, because I am on the right path anyway.
          If that makes sense.

      1. Thanks. I don’t think it’s a titanically important piece, but hopefully it cuts some ice with a few people…

        1. Woah, did you come up with that icebreaker stuff on-the-fly? That’s funny, because the Titanic is not actually an icebreaker. Omg. You must be so good with the guuuurls.

        2. Here’s a great pun I came up with today:
          “If you believe motivational posts can make you happy, you probably also believe that a car can drive after listening to a TED talk about fuel.”
          (Can’t just let you win this)

  2. Another possibility: men commit suicide when their ideas of reality and reality come into intense conflict.
    I have come to an idea that the root of many mental ills is contradiction. I, myself, suffered from the contradiction between my masculine nature and those lessons I learned in school, my home, and my church. My nature said, “lead, become stronger, protect what you love, oppose what you hate, mate”, but the lessons I heard were “don’t make waves, you’re best when you’re a weak victim, hate and love are evil, heterosexuality is abhorrent.” It became so I would harm myself to try to suppress my nature, and on at least one occasion I stuck a loaded gun in my mouth.
    But, in the end, I studied reality. I came to understand that my nature was my nature, and humans had a nature, and all of this was fine. What was not fine were the lies and contradictions that I allowed to sit in my head.

    1. “I have come to an idea that the root of many mental ills is contradiction. I, myself, suffered from the contradiction between my masculine nature and those lessons I learned in school, my home, and my church. My nature said, “lead, become stronger, protect what you love, oppose what you hate, mate”, but the lessons I heard were “don’t make waves, you’re best when you’re a weak victim, ”
      I think that sums it up well.
      Men are conflicted. Fight Club touched on this 17 years ago

      1. Speaking of fight club: one was exposed at a HS here in NYC. Its shocking to me bc it was at one of the best public schools in the city- Bronx HS of Science. The kids proceeded to threaten the reporter, also doxxed him, published his home address and phone number. Does this guy need to worry about getting jumped by kids from one of the “best” high schools in the city?
        Its getting darker out there, especially among the younger kids…woulda been unheard of 15-20 yrs ago at this school

    2. Yeah. I think psychosomatic illnesses are much more common than we think. In fact, I dare argue almost every physical illness can be reduced to a psychological issue.
      But that goes beyond the heads of modern psychiatry. It’s not ‘measurable’, heh. It’s easier to just say ‘your brain is malfunctioning’ (as if that was any less mystic and vague) and give you pills to keep you functioning and working for society.

      1. I would stop short of “all illness is psychological”, but only because physical factors can affect the body and mind as surely as the mind can. For example, vegetable oils (particularly oxidized veggie oils, but that’s largely redundant) are poor material for brain fat, and the resulting damage is largely the result of the physical factor (good news: it can be reversed if caught early enough – just replace PUFAs with Saturated fats and in a month you can be right as rain).
        As another example, soy has estrogenic effects in men, producing effeminate character traits and physical indicators (read: manboobs).
        And we all know what bacteria and viruses are. A combination of solid mindset (producing valuable habits) and general physical health is required to prevent these from becoming lasting illness.
        But, when it comes to the mind in particular, we are too hesitant to look at psychology (ironically).

        1. Well, this is statistical data. And yet there are people out there who consume the things you write about yet they are fit and healthy. The immune system plays a role. And the mind plays a role in the immune system.

        2. True enough. I argue for mind and body – a duality that is bound together yet distinct.
          We are both beast and angel. It is dangerous to deny one or the other.

      2. Psychiatry is like psychology, but with magic pills instead of actual personal growth.
        Psychology is much, much better, yet rarely used because it requires more effort: more abstraction into the mechanics of thought which contradict the SJW party slogans.

        1. Agreed, although not all psychological branches are really helpful. Maybe it depends on your personal story.
          When I was in psychiatry, they said it was bout ‘helping me’. Guess how many people actually ‘talked to me’. Every week, there was one session where everyone got 5 minutes in a room with 3 staff members. That was it. There was no talk, no introspection, no mindfulness. Nothing. Just pills.

    3. Being taught by family to replace and negate the rest of the environment is crucial. Support groups for those who don’t is the next best thing for those who don’t have a supportive family.
      In school, I was taught “tell bullies that they’re hurting you.” I always thought it was one of the most ridiculous things I ever heard, even at the age of 6. I was a quiet kid in a bad neighborhood, and people used to pick on me because I didn’t seem threatening and was polite. So naturally, I got into a lot of fights and they stopped. My dad was always proud of me when I fought.

    4. Indeed. Long term happiness can only be found by realizing ones nature.
      Depression is a way of the body to tell you that you are doing something horribly wrong and it should help to reconsider ones actions.
      As soon as I got rid of my broken outlook on life and craved masculinity for myself my depressive phase, that had been going on for months, ended.

      1. Yes! Pain, physical or psychic, is a healthy reaction of an organism to alert the organism to the need to change something about the environment, the body, and the mind.

    5. our primal natures, our inner spirit, guides us to evolve and grow beyond the bullshit society feeds us. I experienced the same thing as you. Thankfully I got through that phase. I hate the saying ‘what doesnt kill you makes you stronger’ because there are scars, wounds, loss of time and energy, loss of health, and others . I prefer ‘what doesnt kill me makes me tougher and wiser’.

  3. Nice piece, but you misspelled the last name of the Huffington Post writer. It’s POWELL not POWEL.

  4. I read right to the end thinking this would be sponsored post selling kratom
    But kratom’s dead.
    As good as murdered

  5. Please, do NOT use “SJW” vocabulary. If we use their own words, we acknowledge their own concepts. Therefore, we’ll never win this cultural war.
    PS: I have said this many times on ROK articles. This is far more important that it seems…

    1. I catch myself doing that all the time…it’s a great point you are making. Hope somebody bitch-slaps me whenever I do it here. Thanks in advance.

      1. You missed the big picture of concept creation. Check the history of “transexualism” for example.

        1. That’s an individual solution, but it fails on a larger conceptual level. What you say is true – you can’t prevent the birds from flying over your head, but you can prevent them from building a nest in your hair.
          By employing, in this case, “cisgendered”, you are tacitly buying into their worldview. Cisgender implies non-cisgender, which should be a near-impossibility (given that there are XX and XY chromosomes – exception could be made for the few thousand exceptions to this rule). So long as we continue to use such words, the larger conceptual issues will loom.
          This is the reason we should avoid such nonsense words. In the same way we don’t have a word for a bed which nobody can lie down upon, we shouldn’t have words implying similarly nonsensical concepts.

        2. Fighting a word is also a form of attachment to the word. It’s like building an anti-nest in your hair.
          Are chromsomes enough of an explanation? If there is a soul, it could carry varying amounts of female / male energy. Maybe unresolved female issues from previous lives bleed into a male life. Maybe that creates a conflict inside that person, between soul and biology.

        3. In this particular instance, the call is for US to stop using nonsense words.
          Regardless of any possible Jungian or Hindu male/female psyche issues, you are born one way or the other (with, admittedly, extremely rare exceptions). The “gender” argument seeks to minimize the physical and psychological realities of this truth. The fact that we can castrate and inject hormones does not change the fundamental truth of two sexes and two genders (which, to my thinking, are the same thing).
          To get mystical, we have yin and yang. A man can have female psyche aspects (in fact, we do), and a woman can have male psyche aspects (in fact, they do), but there are only the two. The gender argument is like saying “yin and yang are false – there’s a whole rainbow of loosely-connected, overlapping, and self-contradictory forces, and there’s the total lack of either yin or yang or anything else.” You and I might rather say that there is balance and various mixtures of the two forces, and in absolutely perfect balance it can seem like there’s nothing.

        4. I’d say it’s not wrong to assume a kind of ‘rainbow’. I’d say the problem is how this kind of concept gets used and interpreted for the interests of the elite. Put those in a better context, a more … detached, realistic one, and it may actually do ‘good’.

        5. This might well be as close to the truth as we’ll get.
          It’s like the idea of relativism. In the hands of the wise, it has value (because it raises interesting questions, like why relative moralities are largely consistent), but in the hands of the fools of this world it’s dangerous (because it liberates them from those restraining ideas that kept them safe and productive members of society).
          Or, for example, we don’t have to use the scientific method to come to physical truths. In the hands of the wise, it can be a tool for study and hypothesizing, but in the hands of a feminist “researcher” it means “objective truths” and “Science” are patriarchal structures of oppression that keep women from becoming famous scientists or engineers.

        6. ” but in the hands of a feminist “researcher” it means “objective truths” and “Science” are patriarchal structures of oppression that keep women from becoming famous scientists or engineers.”
          As if women were actually, as a collective, interested in that for any other reason than the ‘status’ that comes along with it.
          Hey, here’s a thing. I regularly play a video game called Jedi Knight 2. Multiplayer. Guess how many women you find on the online servers. Maybe 1 in 100. Are they getting disciminated against? I didn’t notice anything like it. And if there is some banter relating to gender, it’s probably mutual.

        7. Bed of nails, where the nails are placed far enough apart that it isn’t just a prop for a phony magic show

      2. Actually, the opposite. In real life when you reject their new terminology they freeze like deer in headlights.

        1. Reminds me of when I confronted a former friend who is now a Scientologist with the bullshit he spewed along with his buddies at a ‘Say No To Drugs’ stand. He had no answers. He had no clue. Yet there he stood, giving out advice about something he didn’t know shit about.

        2. FACT.
          Once I shut down a gun-control ‘discussion’ (actually more like a one-way pissing match) by interrupting the Orator with a simple question:
          “OK”, I says – “what’s an assault rifle?”
          He couldn’t answer….

        3. Or make them define it, and then give it a common synonym.
          “You’re a XYZ”
          “What’s an XYZ?”
          “It means you’re ”
          “Oh you mean “normal”. Odd term you have there, are you off your meds?”
          They might poop their pants with bloody loose stool in indignation.

    2. I fucking cringed when I saw that title. What you say is absolutely critical though.
      Its far more important than a healthy disgust reflex to not use this kind of terminology.
      What is difficult is trying to keep up with the terminology they invent on a regular basis, in order to label sane and sexually healthy people as ignorant or uneducated.
      This is a critical tactic for them in the culture war. It helps them deflect a lot and avoid actually thinking for themselves.

      1. That’s what I said! We need to start changing the language everyone
        uses! That will change the course of the culture and make the SJW’s go nutz! I remember when people started to use gender-inclusive language and I noted how no one objected to the change in language that occurred and or even questioned why anyone should have to be compelled to change the way they should talk or even think! I AM TRIGGERED AND NOW WATCH ME GO NARK ON THESE $*%&#(#&%(#&%^Y#($&%&^#(%^Y#&#()$%&.

    3. I completely agree. “SJW” itself needs to be re-labeled, for starters. It’s in desperate need of cuckification.

        1. From what I hear, they did. People like us thought it was ridiculous, and we used it as a pejorative (because they are no warriors, they hate justice, and they are frequently anti-social).

        2. I’m guessing some teenage gamergater co-opted it but man, what a fail. They wear it like a badge of honor.

        3. it sounds nice right next to their participation certificates and trophies….SJWs are the worst sort of petulant losers, trying desperately to “belong” to anything because they ascribe to nothing that is real or of society. it is counter culture in its most evolved form and can never rise above profoundly disturbing and disgusting.

      1. I agree. The concept of “social justice” itself is potentially positive, and I hate that so many shitty people have corrupted it.

    4. Very good point, i don’t know how many times i lost my temper with so called conservatives who use terms likes “people of color” or “Kaitlyn Jenner”.

    5. Maybe we should put our heads together and come up with a new lexicon for all of these phrases. Social Justice Warrior = Free Speech Destroyer (FSD), etc. We should be able to come up with a complete freaking dictionary if we work it all out among ourselves. I say fire back, and fire at will.

        1. right – remember your Orwell:
          in “1984” they had a whole department dedicated to renaming shit and removing words from vocabulary.

    6. I don’t understand the big deal. Transgendered is a spectrum of people who don’t conform to normal gender ice city and cisgender is those who do. Zero problem with this vocab.

    7. I don’t think the use of the technical term “cisgendered” does harm in and of itself, although I understand the trepidation. Including info alongside this term would be helpful

  6. This article reads like it is written for a female audience. (And not just because it uses ‘talk to your man).
    Frankly, I am surprised the article got published, given that it talks positively about gay and transsexual stuff. Not that I personally care, but still interesting … Money must be driving Roosh crazy. 🙂

  7. What a horrible advice given article. Obviously written by a beta. You are going to call a suicide prevention line staff by Betas? Omg. Get the shovel – its digging time.

    1. when it comes to suicide, it would be irresponsible not to direct a vulnerable individual to seek professional help. That doesn’t mean they will give helpful advice, but they are trained to provide such advice

    2. I think coming to the manosphere for help, and conferring with people you trust and on whose personal experience you can rely, whenever you have depression/suicidal thoughts, is a much higher-percentage play, at least in terms of a starting point, than immediately consulting the proponents of Rockefeller/NWO mental health care. But that’s only because I believe Big Pharma and the AMA medical cartels are all about killing people off and thinning the herd (see Obamacare). They’re all serial killers in white lab coats, pretty much.

      1. Granted if they are at the point of playing roulette with a gun; I can see calling the hot line. but for most; its a bad idea to trust your future to people who put you in the matrix and trained you in society.

        1. Yep. Because even if those people have good intentions, they are still trained to disseminate medical advice that might be really bad for the recipient. And in most cases, in my experience, that is exactly how it plays out.

        2. well that’s the issue. The manosphere / ROK etc provides some excellent practical advice for avoiding the kind of thinking patterns that can make men depressed or suicidal – particularly the focus on taking responsibility for oneself, being resilient / anti-fragile etc. Once things get to a certain point though, it may be irresponsible not to refer people to professional services, even if they may be part of the system. It is rarely a good thing to get into the mental health system, unless you clearly need help.

        3. my theory is if most people were trained as red pill from 15 on. we would have 1/20 th of the deaths. I was blue pill for a lot of years. never got to the point of killing myself but I could certainly understand why when things don’t work out – the plausible next step. We live in a blue pill society so this is going to continue. Everyone has to fend for themselves…

        4. That makes total sense. I mean if people were red-pill oriented, or exposed to red-pill concepts early on, they would be more self-reliant. Since Marxism/NWO-ism is about making people rely on the state for all their needs and beliefs…well…yes, you hit the nail on the head there. Out with the old, in with the new. Fuck conformity. It’s a death sentence. (Wow, that got me riled up there.)

        5. I am with you in part. The mental health system is part of the psy-complex and despite the good intentions of many of its workers its in bed with big pharma. The issue though is about when people get to the point when they may be suicidal. I think at that point you have to be quite careful about any help or advice you give, including for your own self, as people with suicidal thoughts often do follow through – and not necessarily because of the advice they’ve received. I would certainly concede that some of the advice you might get from within established support structures might for instance be feminist / touchy feely etc (e.g. getting in touch with feelings etc as though men were simply women who won’t talk). Because there is a lot wrong with the system though doesn’t mean one can ignore it any more than would be the case if there were a regular medical emergency

        6. I am too much of a coward to kill myself unfortunately. Sometimes I feel like my body doesn’t even belong to me. I once felt so bad I had the mere thought of killing myself. I shared it with someone on the internet. That person called the cops on me and I was forced to spend another 2 months at psychiatry. I fucking hate these people. I’d love to do the same to them they did to me. Wait till they are at their weakest points in life, and then kick them in the teeth.

        7. Agreed. Thus, my suggestion about using the manosphere as a starting point…if you’re about to blow your brains out, any distraction or one-on-one help is probably going to be of benefit.

        8. I am biased, but: Fuck their good intentions. They do so much fucking harm with their good intentions, I wish they’d just put those good intentions up their fucking asses and leave other people alone.

        9. Wow, Tom. That’s a good example of how people have been unwittingly programmed to harm others, while thinking they are doing them some good (just like most medical practitioners). I have a buddy who has a friend who had a mental breakdown. This friend of his begged him to let him stay with him for a while. Instead of complying, my buddy took him to a psych clinic and dumped him there. I feel your pain. Most people are subhuman, I think. You got through it, and that speaks volumes. Volumes. Many people don’t. So thumb your nose at ’em, neener-neener-neener. You survived. “Next.”

        10. definitely. Mental health used to be line of work. I’ve often thought how much wisdom there is in the manosphere that is superior to what you would learn in mainstream psychology etc

        11. Have to say it feels good to have someone understand this.
          There’s no heroics in my survival, tho. As I said, I am too much of a coward to kill myself.

        12. Yep, so they fucked up your life because you opened up. I can certainly understand that. Been there, but not on that scale of yours. This isn’t red pill – but the moral of the story for you is to divide people into 2 categories and give small amounts of information. The people that use it against you; are enemies-aka dead to you -and the others are your friends. usually, I find its about 80-20 against you. Just the math. A cop pulling you over is not your friend. Just like these folks – They are not your friend.

        13. Hey. But maybe that’s your rational mind talking there…maybe your infinite mind was looking out for you, and actually calls the shots, and knows why you do the things you do, while it looks out for you. (I’m taking a page out of your devil’s advocate playbook here, because I like the look-at-it-from-different-perspectives notion, just like you do.)

        14. I was naive. They guy who called the cops on me was actually a seeming ‘nice guy’. It was some kind of narcissist recovery forum. He wrote me a message and said: ‘Hey, if you ever need to talk, I’m here for you.’ And when I took him seriously, he did that shit. Spineless rat.
          So part of the lesson is: If someone seems to nice, they probably aren’t and are just doing it to satisfy their self-image as ‘helping and caring’.

        15. Sure, that’s possible, but I think that heroism is quite an egoic thing. So if my infinite mind did it, I can hardly claim the honor for myself. In fact, can we ever do that? Can we ever take credit for the things we do? Something to think about…

        16. some of the most vengeful,. hateful disgusting people on the planet come out front as saying – I am here to help you and we work together as a team… I am sorry you went through it ; but take my advice x10. It works because I killed a lot enemies over the years- fired etc.. I survive all killers.

        17. Dual world. Dual notions. Hot/cold. Good/bad. Always pinned down somewhere between opposite extremes. Maybe there’s a Third Way…and maybe that way engenders freedom from the prison of mind/body/spirit (human existence). Maybe. Good word.

        18. So you realize most people aren’t human, then. I thought it was just me…that’s comforting. Damn I love the manosphere.

        19. Indeed. It’s difficult for me to get to terms with it … a part of my head just can’t wrap itself around the fact that the apperance may be completely reversed to what a thing really is.

        20. Reptilian style.
          To be ‘fair’, I was a nice guy too and did the same kind of pretense. In fact, I once called the ambulance to get my own mother to the psych ward when she was doing REALLY strange stuff. Come think of it, maybe this was karma.

        21. Gals are like that as well but 1000 times worse. The reason they say “hi” and chat a lot of times is because it fits into their security model within hypergamy. Not because they want to be “friends’. Its a red pill truth that applies to a lot of people.

        22. I think one problem is that the system is often (despite itself, or because of its nature?) adversarial, and when you are non-compliant, don’t agree or have ‘insight’ into your ‘condition’ then it becomes an arm-wrestle that you as the patient (or whatever) are sure to lose.
          One of my big bugbears about the mental health system is that it often ends up battering people into compliance (treatment) and in the process exacerbates paranoia. Paranoia is often a major (co-morbid) factor in psychotic illness. As far as I am concerned people’s choices and self-determination should be respected wherever possible. However, there’s always a risk management side of things, which means the moment anyone hears ‘suicide’, ‘self-harm’ or whatever they are going to take action. It’s unfortunate you had to experience that intervention in that way. People have different resources available to them though. It’s always better if someone can work through something, but some people work through the issue, and then top themselves, and the system is designed to prevent that from happening

        23. I had this discussion with a liberal guy on Facebok. Some girl snowed in. Her profile was full of pictures of her smiling and doing yoga poses on sunny beaches etc. She was like: “Newsflash to Tom: There is no gender war in the Western world”. I was like: “Go take your witty cuntiness and annoy someone else with it” And she was like: “OMG I was just honestly inquiring to the reasons of your anger and you throw insults at me. Oh me so enlightened”. Guess who the guy sided with.

        24. My karma ran over my dogma. You are more than 99 cents’ worth of items from the Periodic Table of the Elements, my friend. We all are. You have untapped abilities and potentials that the Matrix (for lack of a better term) does not want you to grab hold of…and you have a natural propensity for seeing those things, and gravitating toward those things, and for thinking outside the box. So that makes you dangerous to the Control System. Consider it a merit badge.

        25. they are not honestly inquiring. They are playing a hypergamy security game and your one of the orbiters in the trap. If you really really take the red pill – it becomes clear in all encounter. You become your own master- as it should be.

        26. “Just because you’re paranoid, that doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.” My elitist father used to tell me that, when I was a wee lad of about five years old. Believing in conspiracy theories (a subclassification of paranoia) is now considered an illness by the AMA, an other elitist-run outfits. So it’s easier than one might think, to do the requisite underlying math there….

        27. Yes. In fact, I told them I was afraid of psychiatry (because I saw what it did to my mother years back). They took my fear of psychiatry and the fact that I told them my mother was schizophrenic and used it to diagnose me with paranoid schizophrenia. DESPITE the fact that I didn’t manifest a SINGLE of the acute ‘symptoms’ of schizophrenia. They basically said: You are schizophrenic, because it’s convenient for us to assume that.
          I was devastated. I kept arguing against them, but it was like … I don’t know, being back at school again, just worse. Having people tell you stuff and you are not to speak back.
          After some 3 months, I convinced them that they may be wrong and that I have ‘just’ Borderline Disorder or something like that.
          Fast forward 2 months and an independent assessment guy came to my flat to make up his own picture for a court thing. He said flat into my face: “I have seen many schizophrenic people. You are not one of them. It’s just not what you are. You’re probably a little bipolar with ADSD (or whatever)”

        28. Oh, btw, regarding this suicide prevention bullshit, there is a sentiment expressed by a former school shooter in Germany. He published a final letter, which I read back then and which I actually, as I was programmed, judged strongly. Now I read this letter and I can identify with it very much. The guys name was Bastian Bosse. A relevant part of the letter:
          “Gebt jedem eine Waffe und die Probleme unter den Menschen lösen sich ohne jedliche Einmischung Dritter. Wenn jemand stirbt, dann ist er halt tot. Und? Der Tod gehört zum Leben! Kommen die Angehörigen mit dem Verlust nicht klar, können sie Selbstmord begehen, niemand hindert sie daran!”
          Translated:
          “Give everyone a weapon and the problems under the people solve themselves without any intervention of third parties. If someone dies, well, then he’s dead. So what? Death belongs to life! If the relatives of the deceased can’t cope with the loss, they can commit suicide, nobody stops them from doing so.”

        29. I was not always like it. I was always smart, but I was not always as awake as I am not. And even now, I am not sure how much that is. When I see those conspiracy videos, there’s still a strong voice in my head saying: This is all bullshit. Look away.
          The fact that a lot of it IS bullshit does not make it any easier. As doesn’t the fact that those videos in themselves are typically very manipulative.
          Have you read my article about conspiracy theorists?
          manwithoutfather.com/2016/07/15/braindead-sect-conspiracy-theorists/
          I’d love to hear your opinion on that one.

        30. How am I an orbiter? I saw through her bullshit. I told her to fuck off. She interfered in a discussion I had with someone else, I wasn’t actively pursuing her.

        31. One question, which I think I asked you earlier, but didn’t get a response from you about…are you a Gemini, by chance.

        32. that’s changing. The elite are out of luck if they think they can keep on arguing that line. One of the most extraordinary things about the last year or two is how the ‘paranoid style’ or in layman’s terms conspiracy theory talk has entered into the mainstream discourse, usually (nearly always) to be de-bunked but increasingly to be absorbed and re-directed (i.e. de-potentiated). They’ve worked out or at least are in the process of working out that paranoia is now NORMAL – at least it is normal depending on how you do it. People will still be diagnosed with paranoid personality disorders etc where they can’t keep a handle on their paranoid thoughts, but for the most part it will be indulged. Infowars, Wikileaks, Snowden, mass surveillance etc, all of that is now mainstream, and acknowledged. Conspiracy theory is everywhere. We now live in a paranoi-genic society to some extent. There are some mental health implications to this though, and that relates to the whole ‘out to get you’ aspect of conspiracy theory. What distinguishes the clinically paranoid patient is the assumption, often without sufficient evidence, that ‘they are out to get you’. They probably are out to get you, or at least scam you, or direct you or otherwise bamboozle you but you can still give them the benefit of the doubt. I.e. if someone shoots at you, and you can see the rage and hatred in their eyes, just assume they were aiming for a duck and their aim was slightly off. On the other if it can be evidenced otherwise …..

        33. That’s what can be so appalling about psychiatry (when its done wrong at least). Schizophrenia is the go-to diagnosis. It’s rare to the best of my knowledge for anyone to get an acknowledgement that a wrong diagnosis has been made, or that if you have once been diagnosed as schizohrenic that that can ever make a full recovery (recovery is a special word used in special way for the most part). Schizophrenia is supposed to be for life (beyond a few young-uns who have one admission and then make a full recovery) – it’s supposed to be chronic and typically to get worse over time. Consultant psychiatrists (or whatever the german equivalent is) are influential people – they aren’t supposed to get it wrong – but they do. You just have to read people’s case notes to see contradictions in psychiatric notes between admissions etc.
          I am really glad for you that you managed to find someone with an open mind, who was prepared to acknowledge an error was made. Many aren’t so lucky.
          Actually someone on these boards mentioned a famous study back in the 70s where some researchers without any mental health issues managed to get themselves institutionalised in a mental health hospital with a diagnosis of schizophrenia. It’s better than that now, but certainly not a 100% so

        34. well he made his case, and I can appreciate some will think along those lines. Obviously euthanasia is legal in some places, and there is certainly an argument for it. Personally I think the situation as it stands is a bit of a fudge. It’s difficult to actually prevent suicide if an individual is determined, but if it were simply legal, and there were facilities for helping people to take their life, it’s inevitable people would end their life, many of them at a very young age, who would not do so with a bit more life-experience to put their woes into context. There is certainly an argument for adults making their own decisions though, but at present I’d say we’re better off just fudging the whole thing – it’s not like you can’t get buried in a churchyard any more (if you know what I mean)

        35. Tom – if your not fucking her; your an orbiter.. someone to be used for her. not you. You want a friend…get a dog. you saw through her bullshit buy why does this little twit matter to you? you want to fuck her . admit it. be a man.

        36. I didn’t want a friend. Are you blind? I wrote that she jumped into a conversation that had nothing to do with her. By your logic, I am an orbiter of any woman I am not sleeping with – which means I am an orbiter of around 3.5 billion women.

        37. yes. you are Tom. Women and men are not “friends” because at some point either she needs to move on with a “man” or you want more. That doesnt happen between men.make sense? …I don’t understand your need to talk with this gal. Are you glorifying in your own mind that you told some stupid cunt to fuck off? or do you plan on being her girly friend?

        38. I didn’t say I was her friend… she was a woman who was totally unrelated to me, mate. I never heard of her or communicated with her before. I seriously don’t see your point here, although your general points I agree with.

        39. That was a different guy. This one had some antique weapons and just killed 1 or 2 and hurt a few others, if even so much.
          What did he solve? What is there to ‘solve’? Sometimes a statement needs to be made. You may judge school shooters for what they do … but they are a symptom of something that is brooding under the surface. Society needs to stop looking away and blindly judging.
          If I was not too much of a coward, I might have become one of those shooters myself. I can certainly empathize with the emotional world that many of them describe.

        40. “Sometimes a statement needs to be made. You may judge school shooters for what they do … ”
          Statement? Killing students? They are losers and should get over themselves and are the archetype of “mega-pussy.”
          You want to kill? Join the Marines.

        41. Yes, they are losers. That’s the point. They lost. They have fucking nothing. And they see no way out. And there is nobody there to offer them a solution. That’s the whole fucking point, my friend.
          What’s better about killing in the military than killing out of revenge?

        42. Well…in terms of psychiatry, being bipolar, that pretty much “coincidentally” describes the state of being a Gemini. Gemini is designated by the Twins. Two personalities, basically. I know a lot of Geminis, and they all have the same general characteristics. They can blow hot or cold at a moment’s notice, because that’s just how they are.
          Astrology used to be a science. Maybe the most important of all sciences. Kings and generals consulted astrologers prior to every major decision. Somehow, that was all swept aside.
          I used to be a hard-core skeptic about astrology. One day my sister, after I laughed at her “crazy notions”, said this to me – “Okay, wise guy. Think about all the women with whom you’ve ever had a serious relatioship. If you can remember their birthdays, make a list of their Zodiac signs. Then get back to me, smarty pants.”
          So I did it, very skeptically. I’ll be damned. Every single women I ever lived with, or was in love with at one point, was either a Capricorn, a Scorpio, a Taurus or a Virgo (all of them compatible with my Zodiac sign). That shut me up really quick.
          I was in a bar about a year ago. There were six of us sitting around the bar. Plus the female bartender, who is a friend of mine. I already knew she was Capricorn. She knew I was, too. So on a whim, she asked the other five people what their Zodiac signs were. There was nobody else in the bar. I’ll be damned if all of us weren’t Capricorns.
          Now the odds of that, are the following –
          Seven people. Twelve possible Zodiac signs for each. The odds of one person being a Capricorn are 12-1. So the odds of seven random people being in the same room, with nobody else present, and all of them are Capricorns, is 12 to the 7th power. Or 12 x 12 x 12 x 12 x 12 x 12 x 12 = 35,831,808 to 1. She and I still talk about that, whenever I go into that bar.
          Now if that doesn’t get a person’s attention and hold it for a really long time, well, they might just be, oh, I don’t know…a Gemini? Heh.

        43. Haha.
          A girl I was deeply in love with … was born the same day as me, a year earlier. One of my longest-time friends, was born the same day and year. Another friend was born two days before me.
          But I didn’t make a complete list, heh.
          “Kings and generals consulted astrologers prior to every major decision. Somehow, that was all swept aside.”
          They also forbade astrology to the layman, as they knew that if someone predicted a bad outcome, it may actually manifest one.

        44. I don’t think it’s a buzzword exactly. It wouldn’t surprise me if at some point they retire the concept and update it with something less ‘stigmatic’ as it has a pretty horrible and controversial history. The biological model still dominates, but in fairness there still seem to be twin studies etc that demonstrate some kind of genetic component. I’m not up to speed on schizophrenia research, but even if there is an ‘organic’ aspect which is triggered somehow on account of life stresses etc, I do think its time to look very hard at whether there is an iatrogenic aspect to the course of schizophrenia which might be having an adverse affect on outcomes – that would include both diagnostic issues and treatment issues from contact with mental health services to medications that may sedate people’s natural capacity for self-recovery. Schizophrenia certainly describes something, although I sometimes I wonder whether it describes a single thing. Leaving aside (DSM) diagnostic criteria what seems to be common in most cases is a deficiency in the sense of (and integration) of the self, including perhaps with regard to the kind of meta-cognitive skills we’ve been discussing recently (re. mindfullness, being aware of thoughts as just thoughts, cognitive flexibility etc).

        45. Revenge for what? Your personal circumstances and failings? Your “feeeellllinggggs”? So kill the kid next to you in math class?
          Pussy to the core.

        46. Sure, I don’t deny DNA. But who says that mindfulness and meditation can not in fact rewrite DNA? Jon Anthony posted an article in that direction. Rats inherit conditioning and memories from their parents. Does that mean it’s unalterable? Or does it just mean that it is a memory written in DNA that can be processed just as much as if it wasn’t? What if DNA is more of a hard drive with information than ‘fixed code’?

        47. Exactly. There’s more to the universe than meets the eye, and if those in control can convince you that they know best, and everything else is “conspiracy crap”, they have you by the balls. I read what you write, and I think, now there’s a Gemini who has his eyes open more often than not, and because of it, he’s a target for those who want him to conform. Nothing more. You are not unusual, or mentally ill, or any of that. You’re just trying to wake up, find a way out of this bullshit. That’s my perspective. A shrink will have a whole different outlook, that’s for damned sure. Because he’s a pointman for the elitists who run the world (the very people who want us to conform). I wish I had another life to burn, I’d burn it studying astrology…but I’m too busy trying to pay the rent, jumping from one foot to the other, etc., just like pretty much everybody else who isn’t living off of a trust fund or in an elitist-built ivory tower. Part of the clusterfuck, I think…part of the overall plan.

        48. I mean yeah, it’s pussy. As I said, they don’t see another way out. If red pill was more common, who knows, they may find a way out instead of doing this. Maybe that’s the point. The information is not out there easily accessible for everyone. I mean, yeah, it is on the internet. But there is so much programming that prevents people from using it that it’s not surprising to me this stuff happens.
          Just saying ‘its pussy’ is not a solution. It’s a judgment that doesn’t solve problems, no matter how much I can understand it.

        49. are you mocking my use of parentheses? By fudging, I mean suicide is still illegal, but it is not punished, and the social stigma attached to the deed is not as great as used to be the case when a suicide would not be allowed a burial in a churchyard

        50. Being kept in a psych ward is not a punishment? I met a guy recently on the street. He was diagnosed with schizophrenia and is not allowed to work, despite being a talented composed (he said that, anyway).

        51. Oh, believe me, I am fucked up in ways you wouldn’t want to be… the stuff that’s in my soul that I get a glimpse on sometimes … if I uttered all those things here, I’d no longer be welcome.

        52. And do you think that makes you different than anybody else, or do most people just hide that sort of psychological commonality better than others…

        53. Soldiers are not school shooters Tom. NIce try at moral equivelancy though.
          I am going to cease this conversation. Good luck

        54. well that would represent a paradigm shift, but I think there would have to be strong evidence that such a thing were possible before it would merit serious attention (however open I am to such possibilities). It seems to me though that it probably isn’t necessary to go that far. If something organic (but if you are correct potentially alterable) can be triggered, why can it not be un-triggered (maybe schizophrenia trigger warnings might become the norm) so that the disease course (if that is the correct word, and many think it isn’t) can be reversed. There are many potential points of intervention.

        55. I don’t know. How can I? Those are things that few dare to say out loud… and when they do, the reaction is predictable. That leads one to believe … there is 0.1 % of the population which has these thoughts and I am one of them. I am shit.

        56. Well, here’s a thing. My mother was diagnosed with schizophrenia. And I’ve seen her act out. She fits all the symptoms. But does that mean it’s “just DNA”? Or is there something beyond it? I believe that the cause of her problems is rooted in the relationship I have had with her – in this life and the past. Some things are just so terrible that we bury them deep inside and that drives us mad. Literally.

        57. it’s not intended as a punishment is it? As for the guy you met, there has been a massive push – at least in the west I would be surprised if it were any different in Germany – to encourage people with mental health difficulties to seek regular or more likely sheltered employment. There is a strong economic rationale for this as well – so if he was telling the truth, there must be some other factor that would account for such a restriction

        58. Well you are what you think, brother. If you don’t like what you are, think of what you want to be. And don’t let go of it until you are there. My philosophy is basically fuck what everybody else thinks. They think other people’s thoughts and do not know it. Life’s a bitch for everyone. You wake up the next day, you endure. And change is inevitable. Speaking of which I gotta change things in my own world and get this proposal out to a client. Hang tough and I look forward to our next philosophical interaction, my friend…

        59. My ideas about who I think who I want to be may be false. There are conflicting voices inside of me. (Yeah yeah gemini blah blah)
          I currently just try to go with the flow and see where it leads.
          So do I. Take care.

        60. Relationships with significant others are probably more likely to influence outcome than organic factors. Safest thing is to allow for the possibility that there might be some organic aspect, while assuming that the interpersonal factors are the most important things – which are probably a safe bet. There used to be a theory that schizophrenia was down to mothers – the schizophrenogenic mother – but the idea has been discredited, I think with good reason. No doubt mothers, fathers and any significant / attachment relationships are hugely important, but the tendency of research I think is away from single factors. I don’t think it’s possible to solve things over the internet or anything, but while the problem might well relate to ‘deep’ and unresolved issues etc, a lot of the time exacerbating factors may simply have to do with established communication style, including things like ‘expressed emotions’ which end contributing towards negative interactions, or scripts / narratives that can played out again or again to reproduce negative outcomes. There are a lot of different therapies that attempt to address such factors, including things like transactional analysis and possibly narrative therapy. I’m not sure talking therapies are very popular here and probably not your thing either, but sometimes they can have something to say (though they’re rarely made available to people with a diagnosis of schizophrenia anyway because of the supposed difficulty with reflecting on matters).

        61. Say bye bye to any of your rights once you have been in the psych ward.
          The first thing cops do when they show up to call is ask you if you have psychiatric problems now, so they can violate your basic rights “for your own good”.
          Clearly any self respecting man with a spine who doesn’t submissively roll over for those fascist pigs “must be insane”.
          http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/canadian-woman-refused-u-s-entry-because-of-depression-1.2444960

        62. At least the kid sitting next to him in math class might have stuffed him in a locker. The brown fig farmer on the other side of the world never did shit to him

        1. If you need some mushrooms to get started on that, well…never mind. I’d like to read it. Whenever you have a mind to put it together.

        2. You’re publishing in a public forum. Your posts can be used as evidence regarding future assements about you.
          When is your court date?

        3. That’s actually a good argument. Although I frankly doubt the cops in Germland here are smart enough to make the connection between Tom Arrow and me.
          I don’t have one yet. The mills grind slowly here.

        4. I know, but German beaucracy is the closest thing to eternal life that we’ll see on this earth.
          PS: Don’ t tell people what your thinking. Ever.

        5. I hate to say it, but my experience tells me you’re right. If you tell people too much too honestly, they will use it against you. Actually, this site is one of the places where this rarely happens, which I guess is why I stayed.

        6. Maybe I can get away with ‘he’s too extreme to be taken serious’. Ever notice how the biggest ‘bad boys’ actually don’t get judged for who they are, because people say ‘Oh well, that’s Jack’

        7. It’s basically, as the video suggests, a little ‘we are atonomous thinkers and fuck all of you fucked up hypocrites, wankers, smooth fake people, politicians, etc’
          I tried to find an English translation, but to no avail. It’s a prett cool test, but too long for me to translate for you.

        8. might not do you any favours when interacting with ‘the system’ but if on the other hand it comes across as a product so to speak…maybe

      2. And sadists who derive sexual pleasure from seeing patients suffer when they could give them a shot of morphine.

  8. Add to this: When they get out of the military.
    Veterans suicide is alarming at 22 per day. When men leave a strongly masculine patriarchy like the military and are thrust into the beta-male culture of the civilian world, it is difficult. Going from a place where honor, duty and loyalty are the strongest values (and not just some jingo-istic punchline in a politicians speech!) to the civilian world sucks.
    I think a lot of depression after getting out isn’t because of horrible shit seen during the war, but it’s leaving the organization that has a strong masculine culture and being forced to deal with post-war emotions in an environment ill-suited to it: modern civilian life.

      1. Agreed. But GWOT veterans have to deal with a very degenerate western culture that WWII, Vietnam and even Desert Storm (to a certain extent) veterans did not have to deal with.

        1. Come on. Most people back then were likely just as asleep as they are today. Else they wouldn’t have fallen under Hitler’s spell so easily. Only that today, the ideology is more fucked up.
          Hm. All this talk makes me wonder if the military is not such a bad place after all…

        2. In defense of the Germans, Hitler wove a mean spell.

          I know a few recent vets, and the hardest shift is from a rigid hierarchy with established rules and strong intra-unit comradery to a society where nobody has your back, rules are only loosely enforced (or, occasionally, opposite enforcement), and no trust.
          Not to downplay the horrors of war, especially a war we’re doing our best to lose (radio in an ambush, wait for paperwork and approval to fire back, account for every single round, punishment for collateral damage), but from what I’ve heard not a few wish they were back in the fray instead of in the “Land of the Free.”

        3. I am not judging (or trying not to?). There’s always more perspectives to things and even asleep people act as they do because at some level, they believe it’s “good”, which leads us back to our recent debate, heh.

        4. He’s actually quite compelling when the video doesn’t have him sounding like he’s shouting through a bullhorn.
          I despise socialism. I’m an American, of British stock, it’s in my blood, my DNA, my soul, to hate this kind of thing. But I can see how people will follow it.

        5. “Fallen under Hitler’s spell”? You really do belong in a loony bin. You can write anything you want now without having to worry about the (((German government))) going after you, because you are a good little goy

    1. TPTB are too deeply invested the anti-white agenda to allow these men to meet up with civilians who would look up to their lives. I would much rather have been mentored by a soldier than the panty-wastes that is the Canadian man.
      Notice as well how mosques seem to be given a free pass. Not suspicious at all. Male-only gathering of followers of a fanatic pedophile with a long history of extreme violence and intolerance.

  9. I don’t mean to sound needlessly cruel (as I have been there), but if a man is so incapable of improving his own lot that he takes his own life, it would be an improvement to the breeding stock. This mess was caused by weak men, after all.

    1. I agree to an extent. I liken it to people living in haiti- 10 million living on a postage stamp starving. How do you get out of something born into of not your own making? …In haiti’s case, you send them aid if they cut the tubes and their nuts off. Eventually, they don’t starve and can live like humans. In the manosphers case- you direct them to rollo or someone like that

    2. I would tend to agree, if I didn’t believe in reincarnation. (Which amounts to a form of energy conservation law). If a person dies, that doesn’t mean the energy they carry in themselves stops to exist. It may get reborn and just continue the cycle.

      1. Much of a person’s personality is dependent on the environment and genetic base, and even then varies with the same genetic base (identical twins). Not sure what sort of data exists on the quantum level. Perhaps environmental awareness (eg predilection towards counter-culture) or general human-ness, which explains why some people seem sub-human…

        1. Well, my belief is obviously not based on proven measurable data. But what if there is a soul and this carries all the pain and simply goes on in another life? Say, as an additional factor besides DNA etc.

        2. With the advent of quantum computers it has been proven that data can be stored within an atom by itself. The interplay of atoms that comprise a human body could contain… well… anything. It could be your additional factor.
          The Lord certainly works in mysterious ways.

        3. Digging this back and forth. What if there is no escape?? People kill themselves to escape pain, self consciousness, whatever, but what if there is no escape. What if the problems have to be faced sooner or later. What a mindfuck existence is. And on a related note, have either of you ever left your body?

        4. Exactly. Exactly.
          But from another perspective, this is a good one. It means we can’t escape. But it implies almost necessarily that we can indeed heal, no matter what.
          No, I never left my body in this life. I have experienced really weird trippy shit, but never that. You?

  10. Really good advice, I like the specific questions around what he’s feeling/thinking rather than whining questions around why he’s “moody”. I read somewhere that depression in men can often manifest as agitation and anger.

  11. Mention should be made here of a vast resource of pro-male psychological material in the blog “A Shrink for Men”. Hearing stories of other men dealing with the same b.s. helps you immensely.

    1. Absolutely.
      I went to shrinks who had never dealt with any of the things I experienced. This and similar communities provided me with men who had struggled and overcome, with guidance and support.

  12. What’s with the pc sjw psychobabble in the title???
    Cisgendered?
    You are aware of narrative control and ceding an inch gives the progressive a signal to advance further I hope.
    Normal or straight would do just fine.

  13. avoid being useless…………
    Short story, In 8th grade I was near the bottom of the social ladder, a lanky, weird kid with acne. I was at a point where I held a shotgun to my head, but luckily chickened out. My parents ran a dairy and we would help out. Not long after, we had some of the coldest weather ever. 30-40 below and blowing. With only two milking the cows, the hoses would freeze in the time you turned one batch out and got the new ones started. Conseqently, my mom and dad pulled us home so we could help out, It sucked, but it pulled me out of that funk.

    1. One of the great things about men is that if you give them something to do (it could be anything) it can turn their whole life around.

        1. Part of the reason I’m frustrated career-wise. My current job is a dead-end, and while I’m well compensated, you could seriously train a chimp to carry it out.
          Almost on to bigger and better things.

        2. Naw dude. If you’re getting paid for an easy job then stick with it for as long as you can. Listen to books on tape or learn a language on the job if possible.

        3. I don’t really have a choice. Looking to parlay into a specific job with six figures before too much longer. Less hours and less stress too.

    2. 40 below, damn you must have been in Canada. Homeschooling would have solved that issue especially when there’s an available <<-extra mommy with free time to homeschool. A farm clan that’s homeschooled never gets bullied in school and the kids love their parents. A homeschooled kid will likely go into business with their dad whereas a public educated kid begins to rebel around the 6th or 7th grade and some public schooled kids strangely begin hating their parents even earlier. Homeschooled kids rarely hate their folks like the ones who are indoctrinated with social marxism in public schools. In the classrooms, the kids are instructed to become gay and sterile and by doing so they all become ‘equal’. What a load of shit. It’s no wonder kids start feeling guilty for living.

      1. They hate their parents for sending them to that prison for children even though the children are innnocent of any crime

        1. In early education, the first think kids learn is that the female with the nametag is above your parents. Many public schools lock parents out and only allow vetted parents in to observe or volunteer. Think back if yoor public school teacher ever said “Ok class, who are the two most important and respected people in your life?” The answer being “YOUR BLOOD PARENTS” or “YOUR TRIBAL/CLAN ELDERS”. Of course no public school teaches that anymore. The fat government lady with the nacetag is the authority to whom children must answer in so many public school settings. Most public schools are fairly parent friendly as far as the PTA heirarchy, but an overwhelming red pill consensus is lacking in the more feminized schools. Most assuredly Trump won’t send swat goon squads like Hitlery would when the swelling of trad reformers sweeping the land begins to pack the local school auditoriums and commence a trust busting on the social marxism being injected into the public schools. ‘Make America Great Again’ will include schools as sure as clockwork.

  14. Getting pretty tired of seeing the word “cisgendered” getting thrown about. I’ll stick with fucking “normal” thank you very much!

    1. Cisgender is some newfangled word that means ‘normal heterosexual male’. The shitlib anti-culture language-facist goons are trying to make normal heterosexuality into an obscure and seldom known or understood word. That word being ‘cisgender’. I’m surprised no men with balls have yet treatened to riot and punch motherfuckers that say the ‘c’ word. The BLM and every other group are walking triggers but normal men are told to keep their tails between their legs and be sheep.
      Frankly it’s offensive to traditional culture to try to relegate ‘normalcy’ to some linguistic obscurity and then spew out a bunch of crazy new words for a bunch of naturally false sexualities. For a normal, traditional man, it’s like if some motherfucker walks up behind you and tried to kick you in the balls simply for having balls. Being offended when someone insults yo mama is one thing, but now there’s zombots attacking our balls? The war is on motherfuckers.

  15. How much Kratom will it cost me to make sure that the editorial staff at ROK just fucking replace “cisgender” with the correct word “normal”
    Unless it is being used to mock people just use the word “normal” please.
    This is in bad fucking taste

  16. “Reports indicate that age discrimination, downsizing and outsourcing have had an outsized impact on middle-aged white men.”
    I can tell you first hand those reports are 100% correct. Especially the part about outsourcing. Throw H1B visas and offshoring in there, and you have a national disgrace going on here. Hopefully Trump gets in and does something to fix it.

    1. We’re more valuable than women. Fuck “disposable”. Sperm is disposable since we can spurt out an entire planet’s worth of kids after 20 minutes of pumping a chick. But men? Christ, we’re the least disposable sex on the planet.

      1. This is the sexist reality, it is everywhere. One woman all women. Everyman for himself. Family and friends may help. The culture will shout down any real help for men.


  17. Cisgendered

    You’re new here. Do not ever, ever, use that term here again except in jest.

  18. Why the fuck is the term “cisgendered” being used?
    That’s fucking pathetic.
    As is “article sponsoring.”
    In the end return of kings succumbs to the two poisons that have killed the Western media: Sponsorship (selling journalism), and lunatic language and thought control.

  19. I don’t know what the hell cis-whatever is, nor am I looking it up. The entire article fails by use of crap, made-up genders.
    Too harsh? Not when crazies are telling normal people that there are more than two genders. Using any of their inane terminology is in a way surrendering. Which, I do believe…. is a “beta” characteristic, yes? 🙂

    1. Gender is a fake word in its current use. Sex, is the correct term.
      What sex are you, male or female?
      That’s the only actual question and implied answer.

      1. Yes. The word gender has become confusing in the general cultural discourse. Are you aware of the words history? Specifically, I am referring to the Dr. John Money and david reimer incident. The case is very important regarding what is going on with all this sjw gender nonsense. In short, twin babies, botched circumcision on one, dr. John money experiment: make him a female, the poor guy Reimer becomes mega fucked in the head more so when he eventually discovers the truth, ends up killing himself. Not enough people have read the book, As Nature Made Him: https://www.amazon.com/As-Nature-Made-Him-Raised/dp/0061120561?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=0061120561

  20. “3. When men divorce from their wives” is plain wrong.
    Change that to “3. When men end up divorced by their wives” FFS.
    It IS a one sided thing in 80% of cases, so be precise.
    Also concur with the critique about using “gender” and that bullshit. Stop it.
    Other than that this may be informative to some people, although it seems written for a female audience if one looks at the advice given, so since this is a male centric site I doubt it has a large target audience here.

    1. 80% initiated by female and probably 10% mutual, though they likely don’t tally that as a statistic. Men rarely bail and fuck up their families though the hivemind narrative is that single mom’s were ‘abandoned’.

  21. I disagree about contacting authorities if things get really bad. Bringing the cops into a man’s life can easily have unintended life-long consequences for the man.
    In fact, in the context of a long term relationoship, the only thing a woman could do (besides cheating) that would be an automatic deal-breaker and would be reason for me to dump her immediately. In fact, for a woman to go behind her man’s back, undermining his supposed authority, and reach out to government officials, who have never met him, to come take him away, is in many ways just as disrespectful as cheating.
    It’s one thing if a man is being abusive or suicidal and his woman talks to his family, her own family, friends of his, or people in his community that know him. These are people you trust and you know aren’t going to fuck him over. With the cops, though, that’s not true. The cops have no loyalty to the man in this situation. For a woman to call the cops on her man is literally treasonous.
    When a woman calls the cops for domestic violence, for example, cops are REQUIRED to make an arrest, regardless of whether the woman has marks on her body or not. In the case of a man who is suicidal, in many cases the cops are required to hospitalize the man involuntarily.
    Both having a domestic violence conviction (even if it is NOT a felony), and having been involuntarily hospitalized at ANY point in your life for ANY reason, are both grounds for a lifetime ban on firearm ownership. In fact, the recent court case Tyler v. Hillsdale County deals with this issue, and the decision is likely to be appealed to the Supreme Court in 2017.
    Think about that before calling the cops thinking they will help.
    Sorry for the somewhat off-topic rant.

    1. Fuck the police.
      Also protip, the suicide hotlines job is to determine if you’re depressed enough to call the cops on you.
      If you really want to help someone who’s suicidal, just actually fucking LISTEN to them, and do not argue. Offer actual support and compassion. It’s not rocket science, people.

    2. What in the world makes you think her family (even his own realtives actually) and people in the community won’t fuck him over by calling the pigs?

  22. Affirmative Action, Title IX, VAWA, No-Fault Divorce, alimony, asset division, child support (alimony++), WIC, SNAP, De Facto Relationships, Committed Intimate Relationships, The Cohabitation Rights Bill and various other female-friendly forced wealth transfer laws and policies abound. Wait until Affirmative Consent is finally made federal law and becomes official criminal law. Feminist activist judges are already using it in some courts. You’ll go to jail and be stripped of wealth in civil court on an accusation alone with just a preponderance of evidence (i.e, you had sex and then broke up with her).
    This is serious stuff folks. The danger is that far too many men are vastly underestimating how this impacts their lives. Anti-male programming starts from a young age and increases in intensity as the years pass. Much of it is covert and hidden in plain sight. This is why pro-male sites are so deeply shamed in mainstream media. The PTB know that if the social shaming of men stops working, it’s all over for them and those like them. Women despise pro-male groups because they know it threatens their privilege over men.
    The good thing is that men are waking up to the above – globally – thanks to the decentralization of information through the internet and the rejection of social brainwashing and programming.

    1. Nice work (cough, cough Tebow). All that shit you listed has set us free. I feel bad for the men who’ve fallen to it but personally I am glad that the traditional life is no longer an option. EVEN if I wanted the traditional life (I don’t and never have) it still wouldn’t be remotely feasible. Identity politics has grown into an out of control monster of its own creator, a la Frankenstein, and the machinations of identity politics have taken on a momentum that no one can stop. Get out of its way.

  23. Fuck suicide. If you’re that depressed then you are totally set free. Do easy work (assembly line, temping) for 7 days a week, live in trailer, eat beans then travel the third world for three months a year if not more. Give tongue baths to teenage girls (18+ or check local regs), smoke stogies, drink whiskey, swim the ocean. If you’re emotions are that bad then just quit the emotional world and dive into the physical world. Kill yourself at 80 when your money runs out. Commit socio-cultural suicide but not physical suicide.

  24. When men can’t express their inner masculinity and the society shames a man for being who they are
    by nature, then men will either opt out of the system or be helpless and feel emotionally wrecked
    It could lead to suicide or absolute bottled up bat shit type violence.
    Men have to be in tune with their nature. Masculinity. When men cannot understand and cannot
    fully and properly develop it healthy way, then they will try to overcompensate that by being
    ultra violent or by being extremely passive aggressive.
    They will feel defeated and hopeless and have nothing worth to fight for.
    Men have their kids taken away by the system and have him at the mercy of the wife, then this will
    reach a boiling point where he might go absolute nuts and go mass shooting or killing.
    West is far gone up creek shit for any one lone man to fix it. It takes wide masses of men to change it.
    It’s not going to change anytime soon or for the better since western corruption spreads like wildfire.
    You can escape to Eastern Europe or SouthEast Asia thinking that west won’t follow you but it will.
    You can see McDonalds everywhere from USA to China. You try to escape from modern day matrix style
    simulated life and you find it even in third world country coming near you where girls will develop
    cold and brash attitude and you will just be another statistics in tinder.
    Good luck with that.
    They say… You can run but you can’t hide.

  25. Finding Red Pill sites like ROK actually prevented me from taking my life. Prior to that I spent my entire adult firmly cocooned in the Blue Pill world. I knew in my gut something’s were very very wrong and that all the things I grew up learning (how to be a success with women, with marriage, in life) just weren’t working. It wasn’t until I came across these sites that I learned they were all lies. Not necessarily malicious lies, but lies nonetheless.

    1. Me too. Red pill sites saved me after 10 years of incel life and a serious smack addiction. Now I am getting clean, with a girl already in the bag thanks to game. And I am looking forward to winning in the next 10 years. I just wish these sites were around when I was 20-something, because it is like I wasted my youth…

    2. Sometines, you have something brewing inside you for a long time, you have a tacit and felt awareness, but not words yet. When you are able to verbalize often with the help of other, like this site does,, the awareness grows from a tacit awareness to an explicit awareness. Being able to communicate about what is going on, even if it is just in your own head or journal is immensely powerful. I was Red Pill the whole time growing up, grew up in a sea of blue pill, but didnt explicitly know it. Now, after much reading, introspection, and growth, I have a developed a more explicit understanding. with that the ability to cI second what you said, i knew something was wrong. Very wrong. And i trust my own head, heart and gut more than what anyone told me. The red pill really is the perfect metaphor

  26. Men kill themselves because they aren’t as skilled at dissociation as Women are. Cognitive Dissonance will either destroy you or cause you to search out greater truths to live by thus enhancing your life. Good riddance to those who didn’t step it up.

  27. Do you want to help men? Use the vocabulary that was in use before 1990 A.D. That was the turning point when “-person” and other inclusive language concepts were incorporated in to the English language. That is the way to stop this madness.

  28. Marriage/fired/divorce/kids is all? Really? Nothing about false accusations smearing a reputation or harassment ?

  29. Even before I got to the link to the Razzle Dazzle book it was obvious the writer was a knob smuggler.
    There are only two reason why men kill themselves.
    1) Mental illness (manic depression/bipolar)
    2) Fanatic martyrdom for an ideology.
    There is a huge difference between wishing you were dead (or never born, or even opting for/not resisting painless euthanasia if available) and actually offing yourself. Every living creature has this annoying thing called a survival instinct which even overrides the natural aversion to pain, which explains how an animal with it’s leg caught in a trap will gnaw it off or that hiker who cut his own arm off when it was trapped between some boulders. And churchy people say humans aren’t animals,lol.
    It is one thing to realize the pointlessness of life, realize it is unpleasant, boring, painful and mostly consists of frustrating wasted effort leading to disappointment/suffering, to not enjoy the very few things that don’t completely suck and know you would be better off dead. It is quite another to kill yourself.
    Even a single cell organism like a worm that does nothing but compost organic plant matter, fertilise the soil by defecating and provide food for skunks and birds tries to crawl back underground after the rain.

  30. This fucking place is turning so Blue Pill, it’s sickening. Get your house in order, RoK, or we will find another place to gather.

  31. If you give just two astounding benefits for men their journey to success with good male mentors men would become so great that women will feel like they’re suffering even though the would still be leagues better than a third world citizen

  32. I have a very good friend who killed himself a couple of years ago, and a lot of what contributed to his decision was his feelings of inadequacy as a man. I really wish that I could have known he was so close to the edge, as I could have tailored some psychological assistance to his situation more specifically. Nobody likes to admit how many pressures men face!

  33. “3. When men divorce from their wives” really ought to read:
    “When wives decide to get a divorce from their men” This would cause men to slip into a downward spiral, especially if they didn’t have any reason to see it coming.
    If it goes the other way though, that is if a guy decides to leave the marriage, he’s probably doing it because he’s trying to get away from whatever it is that’s bringing him down, and therefore should be less likely to want to end it all.

  34. Guys, ROK is a doppleganger pretending to be for masculinity but uses the enemy’s vocabulary; all along prostituting your mind with bullshit “sponsored content” like this. Jump ship!!

  35. Social Justice Warriors like their labels pulled from their own a55, nice right next to their participation certificates and trophies….SJWs are the worst sort of petulant losers, trying desperately to “belong” to anything because they ascribe to nothing that is real or of society. It is counter culture in its most evolved form and can never rise above profoundly disturbing and disgusting.
    See the ANTIFA label, anecdotal evidence that my description is accurate and the proof that SJW are nothing more than the lowest dregs of “beta” class in modern society. Case closed.

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