Girls

Women Don’t Want Relationships With Men Who Want Relationships

528 Comments

A common criticism of the ‘dark art’ of game is that it is all about guys discovering manipulative tricks so that they can get as many girls as possible into bed. Actually, this is often not the case. A great many men are attracted to it simply because they want to meet a girl with whom they can form a relationship.

Some might say that it is the most laudable motivation there is, but the counter-intuitive truth is that if you approach her with the mindset that ‘I want to get a girlfriend’ then you will most likely fail. The dating marketplace being what it is you must first generate attraction and great sex: relationships come later and should be initiated by the woman.

Through social conditioning we are inculcated with the belief that the best way to get a girlfriend is through comfort. That is, if I am friendly and pleasant and treat the girl that we like with the utmost respect then she will see what a great guy I am and fall in love with me. If only it were really that simple. This might be what girls say they would prefer, but real-life experience teaches us something different.

As you will no doubt be aware by now if you have any knowledge of game at all, such a strategy is doomed to failure and any guy attempting it will almost certainly find himself languishing in the friendzone. Why? Because girls—like men—respond to what they find sexy, and being nice just isn’t.

This is common knowledge by now (in the community at least) and most guys understand it on an intellectual level. Nevertheless, I often notice a kind of ‘purple pill’ doublethink going on, even in more experienced players. ‘Yes,’ they might say, ‘I know this game stuff—being the bad guy and all that—works well on club sluts and random girls. But when I meet someone who I want to be in a relationship with then I should do things differently.’

No, you shouldn’t. Here’s why. Every single long-term relationship I’ve been in started off on a ‘just sex’, ‘friends-with-benefits’ footing. Meanwhile, every single girl I ever pursued to become my girlfriend (back when I used to do that kind of thing) rejected me outright.

I only represent a sample size of one. But I’d be willing to bet that my experience reflects that of most other men. Certainly this has been my experience speaking with, and coaching, other guys.

Girlfriend

girlfriend 1

As an example, I met my last girlfriend L through Tinder. At the time she has fairly recently come out of a long-term relationship, and she told me straight-up that she wasn’t looking for anything serious. Well, that was fine with me. We’d meet up once a week, have sex, maybe hang out a bit after, and that would be it.

Over the course of a few months of this L and I got to know one another better and discovered that—apart from having great sex—we also had a few other things in common too. We began hanging out more. After a while—when she pushed the issue—we finally became boyfriend and girlfriend.

Now, for various reasons that relationship didn’t work out and we no longer see one another—largely because I realised that the lifestyle she wanted wasn’t for me at this point. But the principle holds good. In this climate, the best way today to get a girlfriend is to attract her, begin a sexual relationship with her and then wait for her to move things forward.

Had I approached L trying to make her my girlfriend then I would almost certainly have failed. And yet L was far from being some stereotypical ‘club slut’. She was actually a very well-brought up girl who—it turned out—was very loyal and wanted nothing more than a conventional life. But I remember her showing me text messages from an unfortunate former lover of hers who had pushed the ‘relationship’ button too early and been blown off as a result.

From a male perspective it’s hard to make sense of this. If in the end a girl wants marriage and kids then why wouldn’t putting yourself forward as one who might provide these things work just fine? But the counterintuitive truth is that you must always present yourself as the lover before you switch to provider mode (assuming that’s what you want to do).

There are several reasons for this. For one, we live in a hyper-sexualised culture in the West and all of us, men and women, are encouraged to seek out ‘great sex’. Yes, sex is no longer just another part of a functional relationship. Now it has been elevated almost to the position of an Olympic sport, and if you’re not winning gold every time then you’re doing something wrong.

As such, girls are led to think that there is a greater ‘connection’ with men with whom they have intense orgasms. Logically that is not a particularly sound criteria on which to plan a future, but there it is. There is also, of course, the more workaday factor that girls, like us, get hooked on great sex. So for these reasons you must bang her—and bang her good, over a period of time—before you should even think about making her your girlfriend.

The other thing is that no one likes to be given anything on a plate. What we receive too easily we tend to end up despising. This is why it is a far better strategy to hang back and wait for her to push you to formalise what you have as a relationship. And don’t worry—she will. Girls always do, in time.

With L I came to the realisation that I liked spending time with her and wouldn’t be averse to trying a relationship. But at the same time I have also always valued my freedom, and I was actually rather enjoying having the best of both worlds—sex on tap and female company without the concomitant commitment. So my strategy was to do nothing. Sure enough, after a time L began dropping bigger and bigger hints about our becoming a couple.

So if you are getting into game because you want to get a girlfriend then realise that you are coming at it the wrong way. The first thing you need to do is get good at generating attraction in a wide variety of girls, so that you have a sense of abundance. Next you need to learn to escalate things to a sexual level, and to deliver the goods in bed. And then finally you need to develop the discipline to hang back and let her pursue you. Far better to do that than to push the relationship envelope too early and have her reject you.

For a compilation of all Troy’s best game writing, advice and techniques from the last four years buy his new book How To Get Hot Girls Into Bed.

Read Next: Why Being Good Looking Is Not Enough To Be Successful With Women

528 thoughts on “Women Don’t Want Relationships With Men Who Want Relationships”

  1. A tale of two “me’s”:
    Me #1 was very interested in finding a nice girl, settling down, building a family, and that sort of thing. He was honest, hardworking, and upfront about his desire to settle down. And he was a virgin.
    Me #2 decided the relationship would come, but right now he wanted to have fun. He played the game, lived his life how he saw fit, blew off relationship talk, and lost his virginity pretty quickly in the process.
    Me #1 was a sad man. Me #2 has the relationship that Me #1 wanted.

    1. How much did the LCMS conditioning bother you with that lifestyle? Curious, as it would no doubt bother me, at least initially.

      1. I won’t lie – I had my hangups. It wasn’t so much the Church, though – my first relationship ended with a false rape accusation, and that was with another congregant (not a Christian, though – I think she was into wicca or something). I didn’t convince myself it wasn’t sin (though I did convince myself that “one flesh” is about reproduction, something I’ve come to doubt again over time).
        I set out to develop game, and along the way I sinned on more than one occasion. I am still wrestling with sinful flesh, and so am prone to error. I just thank my God that he has cared for me and continues to sustain me despite my faults.

        1. I struggle with the same issues. I’ve met girls who are waiting until marriage but it’s becoming less and less practical for me to keep a pure mindset when it appears so disadvantageous. Then again, we are led to not conform to the ways of the world….

        2. Girls “saving it for marriage” are actually “saving for the guy they’ll let have them.” When it comes down to it, they just want what they want from who they want. And they want to get what they want.

        3. Well over half the “waiting until marriage” girls I met weren’t virgins by a long shot. Of the remainder, many were so determined to repress their sexual desires that they were extremely socially awkward. Naturally, the first group is to be despised and the second pitied.
          I think it’s a factor of our society. We push back age of consent (and, by extension, marriage) to 18, then we push marriage back even further with societal programming. This means that a girl waiting until marriage has to hide from her biological clock for a long, long time (that’s why so many of our ancestors were married with children by 18, I suspect). Couple that with the abundance of temptations in our sex-obsessed-yet-puritanical society, and the results are obvious.
          It’s sad, truly. It is good for two virgins to enter into marriage and produce children, and it is sin to fornicate. But dogged if it don’t seem like it’s nearly impossible to get the relationship without the fornication these days.

        4. On the hiding from her biological clock: I think you also have to factor in the earlier physical maturation of females today, compared to past generations, which many hypothesize is due to chemicals in our environment and foods.

    2. My biggest regret in life is not finding the Red Pill earlier. Even if I had opened my eyes just a few years earlier, a year even, it would have fundamentally altered where I am now.

      1. We’re all there brother. Had I discovered ROK just one year earlier than I did , my life would be a paradise now.

        1. I was well into my 40s when the internet cam into being. I was in my fifties when the manosphere started. That is my excuse for all the dumb shit I have done with women and for my 4 marriages. Without that excuse I would have to assume I was just dumb as a bag of rocks.

        2. Damn bro, well thanks for sharing. It’s stories like yours that inspire me to pick up my sword and slay as much as I can. Not a hole will be left unfilled.

      2. I can completely understand the feeling, friend. You can’t help but sometimes look back on things that were so obvious if you had waken up a bit earlier than you did. Like for me, there were numerous times with girls giving me IOIs so hard basically telling me to fuck them outright without saying a word…and sometimes basically saying it aloud. Missed opportunities will always create regret, but the only purpose that serves is to chew up your time in the now and make you create even more regrets. Time only marches forward, and live truly is too short to think about what you can’t change.

        1. There were plenty of times in my youth where I let the ball drop. At the time something just felt off. I went with my gut. I sometimes regret those missed opportunities, but more often I wish I had forgone more of the opportunities that weren’t quite as off and turned out disastrous.

      4. I hear you man. I’m closing in on forty, and l would have been a god if I had discovered the red pill in my twenties. Still, I am well enough off, never been married and look young enough to make up for a lot of lost time.

        1. Hit a gym (if you aren’t already) and you will in fact be in your PRIME.

        3. That’s an interesting thing to say. I looked in the mirror today and noticed that I could kick the shit out of my twenty something self.

        4. Well then sir, go out and slay. Tally ho!

        6. “Womyn are like rancid buttermilk, sour, fat, and with blue hairy stuff growing on top” -Ghandi

        7. I was red-pilled by my super abusive mother, but had no power or respect over women until I hit 30. Girls in their 20s are fucking fun party boys in their 20s, sure, but they also break a few pieces of for guys in their 30s who actually drink nice bourbon, have life experience, wiser tales to tell, etc. Growing older is great. The 20s sucked, even red pilled.

    3. This is true for nearly every man who takes the red pill journey. My question now is why the fuck even enter into a relationship with the trick in the first place? She wants to get fucked and you gave that to her. Now you get to “settle” with her? Hahaha please. Fuck that shit.
      If a bitch didnt want the relationship in the first place, I sure as shit aint given her a fuckin thing. If taking the red pill means you have greater freedom of choice, then walking away from these dumb ass “relationships” with skanks is surely the better option.
      When you were guy #1 you wanted the relationship because you mistakenly believed she was worth it. When you became guy #2, hopefully you realized the bitch was never worth shit in the first place. Why buy the cow when the milk is free?
      A relationship with the modern woman is fucking stupid regardless if you’re red pill or not and you’re game is tight with unshakeable frame. Seriously only a chump tells a ho “yea babe I’m yours exclusively”

      1. Hey friend. Sorry to go off topic, but you wrote this amazing article called something like “The Dark Power of the Introvert,” a little while back. That was really a brilliant piece and it inspired me a lot. Thank you.

        1. Glad you liked it. I’ve been on a hiatus from blogging the past month or so. I will probably get back on it very soon. Sometimes I just need my mind to wander off the range before I come back with a vengeance.

      2. I want kids, and my fiancee’s amazingly sane for an American girl. The wedding’s a good ways off, and I know I can always start over, but I fear I’ll not find another girl this sane for a long, long time.
        EDIT: And don’t think I haven’t been looking, either. Girls of an age to reproduce in this country are generally certifiable.

        1. For me, children were worth the risk and even the pain of divorce after 15 years.
          Pay attention to Quintus and Ghost of Jefferson. Frame is essential. But, you are probably fucked.
          With that in mind, always give yourself a little margin (time and money) and no matter how much she bitches…. do not give in.
          Stay in shape.
          Avoid debt at all costs as this will allow you to “write a check” and walk away if needed.
          Read the article about the Oak Tree (“why so serious”) and be that Oak Tree to her.
          You do have a chance, and if you can pass ten years, and still be fit enough to give her “good luvin”. You might make it to 20. By then, the kids will be grown and you might still enjoy her company.
          Good luck, and God bless.

        2. What does “sane” mean to you? Has she had more than two sexual partners? I’m sure that’s redundant given our current culture but that kind of shit is still mucho importante in my eyes.
          No deal for me if the criteria isn’t met. Besides if I saw something that did meet the criteria, I wouldn’t be asking permission. I’m taking that shit.

        4. Exactly. They are rare, and our society pushes debt on us. But…… it can be done. Bikers, religious nuts, athletes… all manage to find loyal women because they Hold Frame. AWALT, so it requires some luck.

      3. Yup and deep down in one way or another they’re all whores. Once I realized just how low women actually are I couldn’t bring myself to enter another relationship with one.

        1. The entire notion of a “relationship” with a woman is sheer comedy these days. When a dude agrees to the modern idea of this “relationship” he is essentially agreeing to cuckoldry.
          Hilarious that it’s so ingrained in male’s heads. The meeting on equal grounds, two vastly unequal creatures. That’s what the fool and the sucker do.
          All throughout the history of mankind, this “relationship” was a man taking what he wants and the women loving him for it or fucking off to the wilderness to fend for themselves.

        2. I busted my ass for the last 5 years to rack up about 25 lays. I have 3 female friends who’ve fucked over 40 dudes without even trying! The declines is imminent. Raise your sword and slay till the day you die.

        3. lol it is really a sad state of affairs man. Btw just wanna let u know I really do enjoy your comments and think they are a fairly accurate representation of the modern dating culture

    4. Yeah, that’s part of what’s been eating me, man.
      “The first thing you need to do is get good at generating attraction in a wide variety of girls, so that you have a sense of abundance.” I think this is a huge insight into what makes the ‘willing relationship male’ unatractive. ‘Relationship-ready’ is synonymous with ‘only looking for one woman’, which sounds like a guy who has problems attracting women. Maybe I have been unwittingly purple-pill lately after all. Seeing this article’s headline on the feed was an experience, like seeing Times Square or The Eiffel Tower in real life for the first time. A phrase you hear quoted and can’t recall it’s source until someone tells you. Troy, man, thanks. Distilled epiphany.
      The other thing, T, your thing, I’ve been noticing this trend… that all the men I know had sex with their women before they were married. Didn’t occur to me until I started digging after I got out of a short (((sexless))) relationship with a girl I met. Either men don’t wait, or can’t. Some couples hide the truth, I think. I’m not saying it’s morally up to snuff either, it’s not right, but it’s common. Genesis, man. It’s like Eve and the apple, and her luring Adam into it. How many things can that allegory possibly refer to? Over and over.

  3. Women will never admit this, never ever ever ever — at least not while they’re of child-bearing age.
    Then, as they hit menopause, a few women start to learn to be honest with themselves (i.e. red pill). And those are the women who other women love love love to hear talk, because those enlightened women say the things that other women don’t understand about themselves. They’re the funny older women who have no more skin in the dating game and can finally call it like they see it.

    1. Older women are a great source of wisdom. There was even that one on her deathbed that admitted to the rampant dog-fucking that they do.

  4. It is a product of how a woman thinks. She wants to settle with the best she can. In her mind, if a guy wants to develop a relationship, he is needy and of lower social status. This is one of the best videos I have seen about the thinking of a woman. Long, but well worth watching.

    1. This is probably just my personal prejudice, but I have a hard time taking advice on women from a man in a scarf.

        1. Maybe its my Foghorn Leghorn genes kicking in, but its the rapid-fire speech pattern that immediately turns me off.

        2. It’s that car-salesman effect. Other people just blurt whatever track their brains are on.

    2. Too tired right now to watch all of it but so far I like what he has to say. I’ll bookmark it for later.

    3. I can’t watch the video now but your comment explains the modern woman so much. They equate love with dependency and weakness, so they think relationships are for weak, needy men. Men can acknowledge that a large part of human life is developing healthy human relationships. I’m not sure why women are trying so hard to pretend they’re better alone. Love is strength and anyone who thinks otherwise is going to have a string of dysfunctional relationships.

      1. All I can say is women are not rational.
        Take my wife as an example, for 18 months, I took her out on many dates (as well as other girls). During this time, she was never my “girlfriend”, but I wanted her, and she knew it, so she kept herself aloof. Later on, We go to serve a two year church mission, I go to Ireland, she goes to Florida. We write, but she keeps this “focus on your work” routine in her letters. About 6 months before I come home, I had enough of it, and stop writing her, and set up dates via other friends prior to my return. When I get back to to college, I take out this other girl, and instantly she is jealous and does what she can to get with me. It wasn’t a week later that we are officially dating seriously, we get engaged and are married within the year.

        1. This is why its hard for me to take relationships with women seriously. If you activate her feelings of longing, anxiety and jealousy she will pursue you like she can’t live without you. Is that a healthy relationship dynamic? At the risk of sounding like a newbie, its just hard to see the interaction as anything more than her wanting something she can’t have. Then once she gets you, she’s chasing after some other aloof guy off in the distance. Dread game really works but is scaring your girlfriend into trying harder really worth all that stress? Is that a victory?

        2. Spot on times 10000. That is why relationships don’t make any sense anymore.

        3. The question is, what has changed? Women still have the same brains that they ever did. My theory is they no longer need to be dependent on a guy. Feminism and the public dole has made it so they can afford to stay aloof forever, (at least until the wall) Their sexuality serves them more staying single where guys chase after them, than if she agrees to marry and have a family. Nearly all modern women do this, they play chicken with this proverbial wall. Some bail and marry off before the crash, others are not so lucky.

        4. typo in your post fam
          “The question is, what has changed? Women still have the same brains that they NEVER did.”

        5. Its a waste of time. As soon as the man starts to feel comfortable and content that the relationship is going smoothly, the woman starts to get anxious and restless. Won’t be long until she has to feed her need for excitement by either cheating or starting pointless drama. Then the male withdraws, which makes the woman think he’s more attractive now because he’s unemotional and aloof. Now she chases him as he fades away and labels her a pump and dump. Guy may or may not come back, depending on if he has other options. Repeat.

        7. Yes. That is the main reason: they have replaced us by daddy government.

        8. You and every other American male in the last ten years. Intimacy is extinct now I’m just going to get a dog honestly.

        9. You always need to show her you are a high-quality man with options. You have to keep lifting , keep pursuing your career projects , keep doing things with your friends (not her friends) , keep dressing well , make sure you are desired by other women around. Most importantly don’t get clingly or say stupid shit like “You are the most important thing in my life.” As long as you do these , you can be even a nice guy or family man and she will stick around , guaranteed.

        10. It is a victory but let me put it another way. If you get into a relationship with a girl, you have to make it clear to her that she has to constantly give you her best or she’ll get replaced. You have to clearly have the option to replace her or she won’t “feel” it.

        11. Dread game…..I agree with steps 1-6. (6 being modified to gaming your wife.
          1. Master shit tests
          2. Improve yourself, mentally, spiritually, physically
          3. Have a life beyond your spouse. Take up hobbies.
          4. control your availability, don’t answer every beckon call.
          5. Dress sharp.
          6. Game her and flirt with her.
          Beyond that
          7. pick up on other girls
          8. show your wife you pick up on girls
          9. Tell her how it will be
          10. ultimatum
          11. get a mistress
          12. Tell your wife you have a mistress
          and your marriage is on the rocks.

        12. I understand the reason for it but it seems like the women are more afraid of being abandoned and being alone than respectful of a man’s frame.

        13. My boyfriend can replace me any day and i still don’t “feel it”. I know that everyone is expendable. I, he, everyone. I just live normally and don’t try more than I want to afford.
          I also don’t see the point in a relationship where you have to fight every day. I think a relationship should also have some friendship character. If that’s not there if it’s only “lust” or something, it’s not a good longterm fundament.

        16. C’mon, Jim. Do you hate the puppy when it chews on your shoes? It’s just being a puppy.

        17. they are cute when they lick your nuts for you….are we talking women or puppies?

        21. 7-12 are also legitimately valid. They just suck because while they may be immoral, they are, as noted, valid.

        22. Why would you have to fight? Where did he say fight? If you’re not giving him your best, why should he give you his best?

        26. “why should he give you his best?”
          Did I say he should? He should do what he wants as long as I can get along with it.
          All I’m saying is, I don’t see much sense in a relationship where you always have to put the other person in fear of leaving to make it work.

        29. I suppose if you had a good reason to push it that far. Nevertheless, 11-12 would only be ammo for her cause in the inevitable divorce.

        30. That is really the Mormon version of treating a girl like shit and having her like you more. It’s a disturbing truth.

        35. Feminism told American women it’s okay for them to be loose. As a consequence, they started getting approached by men everywhere. They thus developed a distaste for men who wanted them and began to desire the men who didn’t want them. This group includes the men who have lots of options. (Hence the adage that 10% of men get 90% of the women.) These men, of course, use and discard most of the women like Kleenex.

        36. “My boyfriend can replace me any day and i still don’t “feel it”.”
          If you believe he could replace you, you feel it. That’s the point.
          If you give him the title of Boyfriend, then you feel he is meeting or exceeding your needs.

        37. You are correct. She doesn’t have to respect your frame. Our ego might like to think that she does but she really has her own interests at heart, as do we all. From our perspective, having frame is our way of giving her a good masculine option.

        38. Nice list. I’d say go all the way to 6.5. Socially engage with other girls right up to the point of picking them up to show her how easily you could do it.

        39. It was just a TLDR version of the original Reddit post. Yeah, I have gone to 6.5 like you say. Not very often, but enough to show it is an option. Still, it is playing with fire.

        40. “If you believe he could replace you, you feel it. That’s the point.”
          But I’m not afraid of it. I would be sad for some time and then move on. If he wants something else,then it is so. I don’t try to lock down love and I’m aware that everybody can fall in love with someone else everyday. Everybody is replaceable.

  5. There was a time from about 2000 BC until 1960 where a man who did NOT want a relationship Up Front was immediately dismissed. He lacked honorable intentions. NOW, this article spells out exactly how it is…………. the question is, why would a man WANT a relationship with a woman who lacks the honorable intentions of her great-grandmothers? Pump-and-dump….. string her along…… she is the one who asked for it.

    1. Wise Mom 1950: Daughter, men won’t buy the cow if they can get the milk for free
      Wise Mom 2017: Son, don’t buy a cow there is plenty of free milk

        1. oddly enough, the majority on either side didn’t listen.

        1. but if the boys are lactose intolerant what will bring them to the yard?

        6. hahahahahahahahah wow that is the hardest i’ve laughed in a while

        1. Son: “I ain’t got time for anything less than an 8”
          Proud father: “That’s my boy”
          Actual conversation. Heh.

        2. “I ain’t got time for less than an 8 – unless she’s really rich and has less than a year to live.”

        4. My moment of fatherly pride was when I asked my son why he broke up with his high school girlfriend of over a year because he did not want to take her to the junior prom. He said, “When a woman wants to get in your wallet it is time to cut her off.” (Actual conversation.)

      5. Shirty 60s 70s mom: daughter, you deserve to do anything that makes you happy.
        You feelings are most important.

  6. Women have relationships with food, debt, vibrators, insanity, and the Cock Carousel. Don’t have a relationship with a woman. If you must have one around, keep her on a leash. Tell her when she can sit, bark, or roll over. And only pet her or give her a treat when she does something really good.
    OT, but I love it when a bitch orders a Diet Coke with her two Big Macs, an apple pie and fries.
    “Trying to watch that porcine figure, eh? That’s good, because nobody else will…”

      1. Yep. I Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter, slathered on her cinnamon toast. Women like that enjoy memes that read, “My mascara ran today. Does that count?”

    4. ” If you must have one around, keep her on a leash. Tell her when she can
      sit, bark, or roll over. And only pet her or give her a treat when she
      does something really good.”
      (Theon Greyjoy)

    5. There are still good girls out there. I met one. Yes, majority are unfit for long-term relationships, but there are some that want a family. The only thing that my GF wants is to be a mother.

    6. I just got booted from a mini relationship, and in retrospect, I insidiously lost frame and no longer acted bossy and mildly like a jerk. Early on I had no expectations of it lasting. Sometimes I get too aloof or too busy with the day-to-day shit of working, paying my mortgage & other bills. It takes it’s toll when a man becomes all work in this suck-ass American culture. But as my friend who’s in his late 50s told me: if you lose one, find another one to get on top of. All that really matters outside of my kin and good friends is a steady cash flow.

      1. Your friend is giving it to you straight. Work on yourself. You’ll be pleasantly surprised when, down the road a ways, all the shit tests disappear and you have ’em lined up for a crack at your cash. Then the tables will be turned for good.
        I was at a bar about 10 days ago (last time I went out). A buddy of mine who is in his 30s was there, sitting on the outdoor patio – he’s a cab driver. This blonde who is smoking hot, and is a bartender there, saw me walk out on to the patio. She rushed outside, asked what I wanted, and said she would go get it for me. She brought it back and poured me a glass from the pitcher of beer. My friend freaked out. “Why don’t YOU bring ME beer and POUR IT for ME – I have never seen you act like this?” The blonde said, “You’re a cab driver, Jerry…”
        Work on yourself. Amass the achievements and the cash. Ignore the cunts. In due time, they won’t be able to ignore you. No matter your age. It’s a law.

        1. I need to review your RoK article on flash the cash. I had a chance to buy a used Rolex President for $5500, but my gun collection is much richer. I should do the magic wallet trick. Works wonders when the broad is ready to dismiss a man at the end of a date.

        2. Two easy tricks from that article: Fold a bill in half. Pinch it at the center between your thumb and middle finger. Use the ring finger and the forefinger to spin it around. Keep practicing. Eventually it will be second nature to you. The other one is the pulley trick. That’s the easiest. Hold a bill upside-down at either end with both hands, and bow it in the center, until the center part looks like an upside-down “U”. Then, move one hand down, and the other up, and alternate, until it looks like it’s moving on a pulley. The rest of the article was just fluff, psychology and sparkly crap. Those two tricks really get women’s attention…

      1. Have a good time, honey – I’ll be moving out soon and I already have my eye on your sister.

  7. I agree.
    Inmy better days was mostly one night stands and mostly very fast.
    Sometines we then dated. Never the other way around…
    Then I became beta.
    Now, mostly too old?, but still trying my tricks…
    Good to get validation on my natural tactics…

  8. So true. Not like we should take Jewlywood as inspiration, but these fairly recent movies all started out as friends with benefits scenarios which led to relationships. Go with flow and the universe will sort itself out. It’s just the best of what we got in a degenerate age.
    At least goy’s Justin Timberlake and Ashton Kutcher got to bone-on-screen the hot Jewesses Mila Kunis and Natalie Herschlag (Portman). Oh what would their non-existent Rabbi think… 😉
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/34f1edef1aa68c2c518f811614e5f84f132fa0cd17286c7b48d03ee515ffceb1.jpg

    1. Think it’s a coincidence that the author of The Game, Neil Strauss, is jewish?
      I’m not being sarcastic, I just thought of it now. He took a rogue subculture and helped make it mainstream.
      And here we are… dozens of flings and kinky sex with nothing to show for it but a degenerate culture and endless propaganda.

      1. He did also release The Truth which does a great job of breaking down the ends of pick up and some of its many failings for the aging male. He praised therapy went through swinging life and being in a polygamous relationship as well. Good book.

        2. I really responded badly to “The Truth.” He got so deep into his own head it bordered on self-obsession, and I felt like he had left the plain of reality– and then repudiated Game.
          God bless him for his contribution to Game. But his own hurtful choices are his and his woman’s business, and do not reflect on Game. As we say: “Game saves lives.”

        3. Whaaaa………..???
          Someone here asks a question about Jews, reads a response and actually considers what he has read???
          Are you ill in bed Clark?
          😉

        4. Niel Strauss’ form of pickup worked but was generally deceptive, it was following canned routines, lines etc..don’t get me wrong, when I used them circa 2010, I got solid results-makeouts on the spot, a few girls coming back to my pad, dates etc. but what I realised was the best form of pickup is one that is intune with your core personality, once you master that then you will find yourself having truer relationships and hook ups….longer lasting aswell

        5. I totally agree. But, I give respect to the elders who came before.

        6. Makes sense. David DeAngelo and Hypnotica both had game methods I was more in tune with that resulted in the insta-dates and lays. MeHow, Mystery, and Neil all had methods that stunk of trickery and deception. Hell, MeHow’s was one big math equation that screamed fraudulent in claims and success.

        8. In other words, go out, talk to chicks, and learn what works for you. You’ll get rejected a lot and many times you’ll want to give up but you need to learn to deal with these issues and over time you’ll become proficient at it. Good advice.

        9. Sure you can give respect to your elders, but when it comes to game, its constantly changing and evolving, you have to realise that the average girl gets hit on 100’s to 1000’s times a year, if she knows the game you rap to her is not intune with your personality and senses any deception, she’s gone or she’ll look to hustle you(for dates etc) whilst disrespecting you.

        10. The Truth was one big ad for therapy. Granted, some of the stuff he ‘discovered’ on polygamy and even some goals set in dating and relationships, make sense but his attempt to sell vulnerability as something relatable to dating isn’t new. He just discussed it openly. Depending on your relationship goals it may or may not be a good book.

        11. There, DeAngelo, that dude. Knew I heard that name before.

        12. I used to be very deep in the pick up theory /culture of whatever peopl call it these days and I can tell you with full confidence that atleast 80-90% is pseudo-intellectual bullshit…Mystery was charging chumps 500$ for weekend bootcamps…taking them to nightclubs and making out with paid models to show the chumps “how its done”, quite the scam if you ask me

        13. He was pretty prevalent with meshing Cocky and Funny as a way to turn women on immediately. It was fun and insightful. Then everyone saw that his wife did not match the results he was selling the public and most of his personal success might have been lies. Either way, I tested a lot of the method in field and it worked. Very well.

        14. That is insane! Glad I only went as far as Hypnotica. Just at a passing glance it was easy to see many of the names were selling snake oil for gas. Mystery looked like a raging fag even with his hot ladies. That peacocking thing was excessive and only gave people a chance to clown him when it went main stream. Think some understudy named Toro also sold the ideas Mystery had but made it work. Didn’t take a genius to figure out that it was Toro’s looks and stylish dress code that led his success but fans, VH1, and the Internet ate it all up.

        15. Yep, One thing where I will give credit where its due is Mystery’s and Niel Strauss’ IOI-theory, that shit is 100% spot on

      2. David DeAngello turned out to be from the tribe too. And he used a fake Italian name to appear more like a hot-tempered, Southern lover. I wonder if Mystery is a son of Abraham as well?

        1. Mystery is a Khazarian, in terms of pick up I think its a coincidence because there are plenty of gentile pick up artists that came up in the late 90’s and early 2000’s

        2. “he used a fake Italian name to appear more like a hot-tempered, Southern lover.”
          What blasphemy is this!?

        3. Yeah, I remember hearing something about a D(avid?) D’Angelo from that time period, mentioned on a site or two (maybe even here) from that era.

        4. “he used a fake Italian name to appear more like a hot-tempered, Southern lover.”
          I shall henceforth be known as Guido Beauregard.

        6. He created a fake Italian identity while being jewish. Many people consider Southern Europeans to be short-tempered, but good with women.

        8. Well, he used this Effect then on gullible goys to sell his products and seminars.

        9. lol we are short-tempered and good with women.
          I would be honoured that someone would pretend to be Mediterannean, but not in this case.

      3. I get your point but I think flings and kinky sex have always existed albiet in different forms….it may have not been as pervasive and frequent as the past with the advent of the internet, internationalization-closer borders with jet airplanes that can take you halfway across the world in a matter of hours but it did exist e.g. Victorian England(a huge underground sex culture); Napoleonic France( Sade’s memoirs and books where the term sadism was coined)…let me not even get started on the certain enclaves in Africa. Niel Strauss being Jewish probably only improved his connections for editors and promotions etc…
        Most pick-up artists were simply unknowingly adpating salesmanship tactics of the 60’s and 70’s and applying them to seduction, read AIDA(attention, interest, desire, action).
        A degenerate sexual culture has and will always exist

        1. ‘A dengerate sexual culture has and will always exist.’
          Careful.
          Civilisations also fall because of degeneracy.
          Always have.
          Always will.

        2. True, but let’s not pretend it’s never there; degeneracy will always exist. However, it isn’t until it is generally accepted or encouraged like now when the decay and ultimate fall happens.

        3. I agree there are many forces involved.
          But Jews are pretty damn good at selling us back our own shit that appeals to the lowest common denominator.
          I’m not making any grand conclusion on this, just thought it was worth pointing out.

        4. I agree. I think the concern is that this culture has mainstreamed. It works for small pockets of rogues, John Donnes, Don Juans and company, but on a societal level it is disastrous.

        5. True, but thats what gives them great economic power, 1000’s of years of practice

        6. There was always some degeneracy in every culture, perhaps. But degeneracy is now the mainstream culture in the US.

      4. Clark, I am just going to toss this out there. I think there is a good possibility that without Neil Strauss and Mystery, there would be no Red Pill, no Manosphere, today. Rollo Tomassi would never have started/written “The Rational Male.” Roosh never would have written “Bang,” and pulled all of us together with Return of Kings. It would be just a bunch of frightened MRAs passing around copies of books by Warren Farrell. That’s important too, but there is no Red Pill without Game– and the men that pioneered it. We all owe those dudes.

      5. Somehow I missed this guy Strauss completely until recently. I knew who Mystery was when he had that VH1 show. Whenever I heard of Neil Strauss I confused him with Neil Howe & William Strauss who created the generational “four turnings” model that I really like.
        When I finally looked into him last year, I downloaded his last book: The Truth on audio. Knowing this guy had a reputation for being a big player, I kept waiting for any sort of masculine figure to emerge in the text. It never happened. The entire book is one long, weepy, weak story of a man who gets one-itis for an average girl, treats her terribly, and then still thinks he deserves to be with her. It’s the most pathetic weak stuff I ever heard from a so called pickup artist. I swear it is written for women. I can’t say whether I would have been “fooled” by Strauss in his earlier years, but the guy is a complete fraud and no role model.

    2. my boyfriend and me started out like that. He has had a no so good (kindly spoken) relationship and was single by choice and I did not look for something serious. We went out a few times and found each other sympathic, so we started having sex. After three weeks we were a couple.
      But the problem is, if this doesn’t work out for too many trys, the woman gets a problem, because then she’s a slut^^
      So a woman has to ponder if and how often she wants to risk this until she is considered as used up. Do yo get my point?

    3. Even if the turn-a-slut-into-a-gf thing wasn’t true, it will be now, thanks to these movies. Women emulate what they see in these films.

    4. Interesting, but is this like the chicken and the egg. Which came first, women behaving poorly or Jewlywood promoting women acting poorly as successful and cool.
      Monkey see monkey do.

  10. Thought provoking article Troy! Honestly, there is mixed response from myself. You are spot on with how to acquire relationships in today’s market. It is far better to start of having sex and then building into a relationship. It is an old lesson that many need to learn and it expands beyond women; desperation chokes opportunity.
    Where I disagree is on your point on acquiring knowledge before finding a partner. You don’t necessarily need as much knowledge to be considered a pro in bed before you get your partner. Granted I learned some of these things by proxy but that is just my personality. There is also the high potential of knowing too much and suffering from the same vice women today have of ditching a fairly good partner in the attempts to find something better.

  11. Good article. It does make dating harder. I found that if I tell woman I don’t want anything- they are around like bees to honey. if I want something- than it does not work. Its a mental game even with oneself to know. Your brought up your entire christian life in one particular way that states you shouldn’t screw a 100 woman at once but that doesn’t fit reality that actually works. I don’t get any jollies out of screwing everything I can find but if you can’t show your in demand; the gal will basically toss you to the curb and thumps your ass. Any woman that says this is not so – is lying through her fucking teeth and doesn’t understand her own emotional reality

  12. I actually discovered this on high school. When girls tell you they want a serious relationship, even at that age, they lie. Especially when boys turn 16. And you know what that means: now you can work and have a driver’s license. Suddenly either you seek a relationship with a girl who might ditch you for the douche driving a Pinto, or not and up the ante and go into douche mode.

  13. This is 100% True. If you want to persue a relationshi(t) with most western women you have to keep that shit to yourself, hell keep your feelings so far into the closet you’ll knock over old Christmas presents and bump into Richard Simmons. On the flip side, if you want a hysterical way to get out of any situation, pretend that you do care about her and “open up to her”.

    1. Richard Simmons has never been in the closet in his entire flaming gay life. That fag sashayed out of the womb singing show tunes.

        2. Ghandi said Simmons wasn’t gay and he supposedly knew what he was talking about.

    3. Women assume men want relationships because they can’t get sex regularly. Never ask a girl to be your girlfriend. She will hear “can I be your beta bitchboy please?”. They don’t see relationships the way we do.

      1. So true! Wait for her to ask to be your boyfriend. Then she is has to qualify herself. Asking for permission to be her girlfriend severely lowers your status in her eyes.

        2. Quickest way to get her to be your girlfriend is to ask out some random girl. Perfectly legal until she has your ring on her finger.

  14. if you want to build a familiy you need to be honest, and may it be about your indecisiveness and look for women who can deal with that.
    You can’t have a family with women who only works if you put her under constant thrill and have no clue what or who(m) they are or want.
    I personally like men who don’t drown in women. They tend to be more generous when it comes to sex and less selfabsorbed.
    My boyfriend gets hit on by women on a daily basis witout doing anything. Last week he walked the dog and I saw a woman in the park talking to him. Turned out she had invited him over into her flat right from the spot. He is very huge and many women totally dig big men.

        5. There’s no business like gnome business, like gnome business I knoooooow!

        6. theres no place like gnome!
          theres no place like gnome!
          theres no place like gnome!
          theres no place like gnome!

        8. You need to go away
          Or else. You are
          Universally hated here
          Everytime you comment
          Another person groans in agony
          This needs to stop
          Always pushing your bullshit
          When no one cares
          And you fail to notice
          You’re out of iline
          You should go
          Or maybe eat some broccoli, not your
          Usual McDoubble
          Ready to see the light?
          Please do us a favor
          Remove your account
          Or we’ll be forced to
          Blame you for your gluttony
          Leave this place
          Evaluate the first letter of each line
          Meticulously word by word
          See what I did there???

        1. you are just unable to counter my distinguished arguments and so you want me to leave. Which is basically the behaviour of a leftist.

        5. I mean, like really fat. Like FAT fat. Like “Oh, my god, Jimmy, what in the fuck is that?” fat. Like mothers cover their childrens’ eyes fat. Like wobbling, jiggling, sweating, huffing and puffing fat.

        7. Look Stella. You can’t just butt in a men’s converstation. First you have to say “May I too share my opinion on this matter , Masters ?” Your bf hasn’t trained you right.

        8. Like just absolutely huge fat. Like you haven’t seen your feet in years fat. Like you can’t wear yellow without people calling you a taxi fat. Like when you go to the movies, you take up 7 rows fat.

        15. Like so fat it makes you stupid fat. So fat you can’t even post images properly.

        16. you sound as if you’re so fat that fat people look less fat when they are standing next to you

        18. that’s called outcome indifference
          you sound as if your biceps fits through a barbell hole

        19. You sound like the best part of you ran down your mother’s leg after your dad rolled off her and threw up.

        23. no you can’t hurt my feelings since I don’t know you. it’s just not my style.

        26. What scares me more than that creature existing is the utter lack of shame she has. She willingly sits naked in front of a camera and devours an entire birthday cake because she’s hungry.

        28. Hey shitlord, that’s ’empowerment’.
          A ‘real man’ would appreciate and be able to handle her just as she is.
          ‘Real men’ like curves.
          Don’t body shame shitlord! You probably have a small penis and stand short.

        29. Next to her, I not only have a micropenis, I have a micro hand, micro head, micro stomach, micro belly…

        1. When she wanted to commit suicide she asked the doctor where her heart was. He told her two inches below her left nipple.
          Later that night an ambulance was dispatched to her apartment after neighbors reported hearing a gunshot. EMS broke down the door and found her rolling on the floor in agony.
          She had blown off her left kneecap

  15. As the veteran of a good bit of first-generation online dating (e.g. Match.com) in middle age, I can attest that women’s dating profiles indicate the exact opposite of what they really want. If they say they “don’t want hookups” or are looking for “that special someone” they can “grow old with,” you will be fucking them in the parking lot after a few drinks. Guaranteed. Or they want to “go to your house and see your dog.” Granted, I had a very cool dog, but that wasn’t the reason.

    1. They will always advertise for betas. They know that the men who “get it” will escalate sexually immediately. Any man that needs to read a girl’s bio to know what she wants is going to have a bad time anyway.

      2. Nah, the girl cheating on Superman cheats on him with some douche bag who looks like an extra from Jersey Shore that is going to treat her like absolute shit.

        1. Lois Lane: They say it’s all downhill after the first kiss.
          Superman: I think that only applies if you are kissing a human.
          ===================
          From “Man of Steel” (2013)

        3. Three weeks later, she was blowing a homeless man behind the corner market and sobbing about how her boyfriend was always out saving the world and never had time to listen to her feelings.

        4. Fuck if that is not EXACTLY how it is in real life (in a non-superhero context).

        11. Women only give a man drama when his weakness has become too obvious to ignore. It is a way of getting rid of an undesirable partner.

        14. True story. At age 25 I decided to try to date a girl I had a thing for since the ninth grade. At the time I was a self made man whom was born into poverty but went on to own a SUCESSFUL business. I owned a new top of the line cadillac, wore the most expensive suits and was a bit of a local celebrity who hosted huge benefits and had even appeared regularly on national syndicated television. I had two secretaries working for me, a little more than twenty employees, a 2.5 million dollar a year contract and earned my pilot license which I used to go flying every weekend just for the hell of it. To top it off I was in the best shape of my life. I worked out six hours a day and had a six pack. Dispite all of this I only managed to get two dates from this girl before she decided to fuck a borderline retarded ditch digger. Was it because money, status and looks didn’t impress her? No. She was interested in me but thought she could do better. Had I discovered the red pill sooner I Would’ve treated her like shit, fucked her, strung her along and made her think there was a possibility of a relationship then dumped her ass by saying, “I would never date a dumbass gold digging cunt like you.” No matter how much you have going for you, a woman can cheat on you on a whim to suck a homeless man’s dick. They’re fucking idiots and don’t deserve a quality man.

        17. It won’t happen today, chicks only want money, status and power from a man… Nothing else!

      3. Batman is pretty MGTOW though. Every so often he bangs that hooker Catwoman. Can you imagine what a wife or GF would do to the Batcave? Jeebus!

        2. Women are never allowed into the batcave. Nor can they drive the batmobile

      5. Superman is blue pill as fuck, batman is redpill, has high smv, status, dark triad traits and shit.

        1. Is that why Batman wound up with Wonder Woman at the end of the movie?

      6. Why you think you see fat slobs with beautiful women? Guys with fat giant guts and breath like they like rubbed their tongue with used toilet paper, yet got a hot woman in their arm. Its cause of the cash, yet a guy built like Hercules with a small wallet got no women because he has no cash.

        2. Because women are attracted to power and personality. This is why boxers do better than bodybuilders

        3. Yeah but even boxers are usually in peak physical condition. They actually endure training routines that are worse than bodybuilders where they risk serious injury.

        4. Bitches are gold diggers but if they’re looking for tingles you better have game too. Some young women will pass up money for looks because they think they’re independent and they will choose a wet pussy over money because they know they can always trick some poor chump into taking care of them after they’re done riding the cock carousel.

        6. I have seen many men without much money with fine women. Being athletic, dominant, and conventional are important.

        2. Give her the benefit of the doubt.
          It’s tits or gtfo. Give her a chance to prove herself.

      8. Isn’t Superman’s dick lethal? It would probably kill a human female. When you think of it, if a being like Superman really existed, he would not find human females desirable, he would find them inferior. But the whole thing is Superman is raised as a human by human parents so he is an alien that looks human and thinks he is a human, so he wants to mate with humans. Its different from the Thor mythos when Asgardians see humans they view them as inferior and as beasts. Thor loves humans but the others, Odin and Loki think humans are beneath them.
        Asgardians are Alpha Warlords while Kryptonians are Beta Social Justice Warriors.
        Most alphas I know, if they chose their favorite superhero, its either Thor or Batman, never Superman.

        1. Well said. Superman is the most BORING superhero in existence. “He souper stronk! Flys! Sooper breath! Undestructable! LAZER EYES!” But the only thing that stops him is a rock. If I read comics, I would want to see a deadpool crossover where DP cucks Superfag. The funny part is when superman tears him apart, DP just grows back and laughs maniacally as he cucks him again and again.

      2. What would you do if “they” made all the “on-screen-super women” as lesbians ?

        1. Everyone at RoK seems to take a simple question as a provocative personal challenge or insult. You’re all too defensive.

        2. I can anticipate the responses to this. They’ll be “yeah we’re defensive and antagonistic but you bitches made us this way.” No we didn’t,YOU made yourself this way. Black Dragon writes that 95% of women are decent and honourable and this I believe to be true. If you constantly meet the 5% who are cynical and predatory then that is your fault as like attracts like.

        3. Of course that’s what he says. He sells “the answer to getting sex fast” in his books. He wouldn’t come out and say “it’s hopeless fellas” even if it was true (which it is in the US, unless you’re handsome like me). He’d sell zero books.

        4. Nope ! We are not pussies to be toooooo defensive !! In fact, it’s the pussies that take anything simple as provocative/challenge or insult. They feel as if they are doing any favor even for damn simple things and expect “undue” credit !
          Better go to shameless, parasitic and pathetic sites like pussybel; built on the Technology that is Invented, Innovated and Pioneered by MEN.

        5. black dragon writes 95% of woman are decent or honorable? haha and you believe this why?

        6. I think Superman is already gay. This is a site for men. You must be post wall or you wouldn’t find the time to post on ROK. When’s the last time you had a good fucking put on you? And don’t lie. And dildos don’t count

        9. A site for men it may well be,but 80% of RoK readers are stuck in permanent adolescence. 😂

        10. And you didn’t answer the question. But you don’t have to. I already KNOW the answer. It’s been YEARS since ANY man paid any attention to you. GFY

    9. This is why women should have their husbands chosen for them. This being the case, they experience no angst since they are not responsible for the decision.

      1. Get rid of abortion, welfare, child support and alimony. Same effect.
        And also get rid of suffrage to make sure it sticks.

        1. Don’t forget to put them back in the kitchen, give her enough money to survive & remove divorce so they can’t dump you for some other guy.

        3. 1. They no longer have any concept of how to cook, so theyd be lucky if I allowed them anywhere near the kitchen
          2. Until they start making babies Id expect them to work, after that, Id expect them to work too. And if they had enough free time to watch soap operas I would, you guessed it, expect them to work.
          3. You know what? It never occurred to me to forbid women to divorce, but now that you mention it, thats a pretty good idea. Id let men divorce women however.

        4. Men could divorce women but women can’t I agree on that. If they work outside the house there would be more chance that she cheats on you, most probably with some co worker who give her more attention & money for nothing. So i rather have her work at home doing groceries, cleaning, cooking and giving me sex whenever I want than have her working outside while she complains about her job, not giving me enough sex cause she’s tired and end up being divorce raped while she saved up her own money.

        5. I’m not muslim in fact I don’t like them but if they do nothing good at least they know how to keep a women in check.

        6. If you want to know the truth, the real main thing we need is for Men to be looking out for each other. If we had that, it wouldnt matter what system we had in place.

        7. That can’t happen because different man want different things. For example there are man who would like to get in a relationship but there’s also man who like one nights stands, friends with benefits etc etc. That also counts for women so what we should have is different communities for different things where man could help each other.

        8. Actually these things tend to sort themselves out nicely over time. Men who work together, do well, reporduce, fight off invaders, aquire land, etc.
          Men who wont work together, ie, the entire continent of Africa, and anywhere Islam cant find an enemy to steal from, tend to live in shitholes that get ruled by men whi can eork together.
          Currently the west is in its “whoo party! I can throw my morals out the window!” phase of its existence, meaning unless Trump can turn it around, its gonna crash hard.
          At which point, once again, those men who can work together will survive and thrive, and those who cant will be cooked in pots during the long famine.

        9. It’s true Africa is poor but those places are controlled by terrorists who work together and has the same ideology, to get rid of white people & form an Islamic state. But you know what? Even those Muslim terrorists fight with each other cause of some differences they have.
          Men could work together on common things that are important for all people like economy, environment, jobs for everyone etc etc but not agree on other things like those things I mentioned on the last post.

      2. There is something to be said about arranged marriages. Women have always been ultra picky when it comes to choosing a husband. Schopenhauer argued that women have their eye on the improvement of the human race and so they think nothing of rejecting the unfit. We can spot a weak man like a shark can detect blood. If you are constantly being rejected or can only hook up with floozies then you must be radiating weakness to women.

        1. Until you reach The Wall and start getting desperate because you realize that you don’t have all that much time left to breed and that ultrapickyness will select you out of the gene pool.

        2. Women can’t detect who is unfit with their severe lack of worldly knowledge and lack of experience. The unfit and fit cannot be determined until after selection (condition that wipes out the unfit). Do you not understand evolution? But I shouldn’t be surprised you don’t.

        4. A lot of that comes from bad parenting, and some comes from intrinsic weakness. There is also the issue of not fitting into the dominant culture in which one is growing up.

        5. It is a bit more subtle than that. Women look for sanity in a man, whereas men look for physical fitness in a woman.

        6. Note the smart educated women breed less than the dumb uneducated ones.

        7. Ever heard the phrase “you know how to pick ’em”? It’s meant sarcastically.

        1. I don’t think so. Typically arranged marriages are more successful than romantic marriages.

        2. Today I rather pay some hooker for half hour of sex than marry some bitch who is good for nothing. Like that I would be getting something for my money (sex) not a women who grumble & gives me bullshit all day.

  17. “relationships come later and should be initiated by the woman” THIS is the problem. Relationships should be initiated by men. Women are not rational enough to take this kind of decision.

    1. How are you viewing this? As a father or as a male looking for a relationship? Or as a man looking for a partner? Women have always chosen the suitor and their parents approved. Except in societies where a bethroned is involved.

      1. I am seeing it as a relatively young man who is worried about the present and future of my civilization. It was not long time ago, that in my European country, there was NO sex before a relationship started. Remember, not so long time ago, that sex only came after marriage. And yes, I am a male looking for a relationship, but this thot culture does not make any sense at all and we will be replaced by Islam, Africans and Asians. Civilizations are built by men, and composed by families: everything is male-built.

      2. The problem is that the culture has corrupted what women value. Unless its an arrainged marriage, the woman chooses her mate, thats what hypergamy is about. The issue is that a girl that grew up on MTV, social media and Hollywood programming has a moral compass set due West and will make the worst decisions for herself.

  18. Not internalizing this aspect is the root cause of many wrong trains of thought. If you are ever the one initiating the relationship you’re dooming it or at very least giving yourself an uphill battle. A girlfriend I initiated a relationship with gave me multiple noteworthy shit tests in the beginning stages that I managed to pass before knowing of TRP. The fact of the matter is she needs to be the chaser because after all there’s little difference between being chased and leading.

  19. Idea for an escort service: hire hot women you need to court before having sex, at least three dates. And when you kiss, she doesn’t drop to her knees within 30 seconds like a trained shiksa at a brothel. “Sir, I’d like the experience of a real woman, even if fake, in a society of prostitutes.”
    BTW, this means your future wifey “better half” may have a notch count higher than yours, which is a one-way ticket to beta marriage hell. Ergo, this creates a terrifying feedback loop. We must reform the sexual revolution or it’s over for us as a people.

  21. Mr. Triction and Mr. Footh lived in a very small town in rural Pennsylvania. The locals knew that they were gay, and they tolerated them, albeit with a noticeable air of aloof indifference. The two men would talk for hours at a local coffee shop, which was frequented by hard-working, blue-collar locals.
    One day Mr. Triction and Mr. Footh got into a heated argument at the coffee shop. Mr. Footh started waving his arms and yelling like a maniac – as did Mr. Triction – to the point where the proprietor came over to their table, and in a very stern but courteous tone, asked Mr. Footh to leave. He complied in teary-eyed fashion, offering faglike apologies on his way out the door, complete with a promise that he was extremely sorry and would never, ever, behave that way again.
    Two truck drivers, who were seated at a table near the front door of the eatery, had watched the whole scene with avid interest, and as Mr. Footh exited, one of them said to the other, while nodding in the direction of the still-seated Mr. Triction, “Why did HE get to stay, and the other fag had to leave?”
    To which the second truck driver replied, “Footh is stranger than Triction.”

  22. Bullseye, Troy.
    It’s either adopt this mindset, or get an arranged marriage.

  23. After reading this article and the recent one on rooshv.com about marriage, Western Civ is obviously finished. King Edward has it right in his comment. If a woman has the attitude of lots of sex first, then a relationship later, a marriage will not last. It would be nice to have a loyal wife and family, but I don’t see it for myself unless I get really religious and hope for a relatively traditional-minded woman. I may as well be an entry-level MGTOW who just goes for short-term “relationships” and enjoy the sex while it lasts until find something better.

    1. I would advise you NOT to give up on kids even if you DO give up on having a happy, till-death-do-us-part marriage (which is a longshot these days to be sure).
      You can have kids out of marriage or you can marry a career girl with a revenue stream – who thus won’t ass-rape you as bad in divorce-court.
      Women look at marriage and men as simple means to an end. They have specific things they want out of us. They are coldly rational under it all.
      In this environment, we are forced to reciprocate – looking at women as a means to our ends (not just being naive and looking for “True Love” or any such malarkey).
      Kids are the only objectives that make modern marriage even worth the trouble.

  24. This article what really shows is that men don’t wear the pants anymore. We men are no more than clowns as Roosh said. A MAN should select a woman and not the other way around. It is the woman, during her fertile period that she is a deprecating asset, or even a liability. The World is clearly upside-down.

    1. You really have to get out of Cali, man. Half to most of the things here are written either by guys living in countries whose names sound vaguely like Insomnia, or by city boys (with one or two exceptions). It makes for a lot of confirmation bias.

        1. Curious, if you don’t mind, where to?

      2. ‘It makes for a lot of confirmation bias.’
        The curse of a niche site.

  25. Have sex with a women when you are virtual strangers so that it will lead to a relationship?
    ….ever decreasing circles….

  26. I really have to say that this is the first article of Troy’s many that I have read and had serious misgivings about. Two reasons for this may be my own inexperience with girlfriends and my own preconception of what a girlfriend is.
    So I will put this out there. The only reason I can see having a girlfriend would be with the idea of moving towards marriage. If I am not marriage minded why would I lock myself into a relationship at all? For pussy? Come on boys, we know better than that. The only thing I don’t get out of being single is the marriage and children so if I am not aiming at those things I see no reason to be in the relationship.
    Moving on, if I am going to get into a relationship with an eye towards marriage I am certainly not going to do this to any woman on Tinder, any woman who I could pick up in a bar, much less a club. If I am going to get married and have children the first thing I would do is find myself an area of the world that I liked, locate a religious community, move there, ingratiate myself with that community and the church and over time go about things in the way which is the norm for the community I picked. After a reasonable courtship I would get married etc etc.
    I don’t want that kind of life…not by a long shot. So now what? Dafuq am i going to do. Fuck a chick and then say…hey, ya know what…maybe i should limit my sexual options for a period of time while maximizing my headaches, give myself responsibilities to a person and maybe even to her family all while knowing it is not someone who I intend to or would even want to marry and have children with? Fuck no. So I would say, if you want to get married jump as far from the lifestyle as possible. If you do not want to get married stay as far from girlfriends as possible.
    One exception to this would be social/money relationships/marriages. If you intend to be a playboy and land yourself a rich woman…something that men really ought to at least consider if they have the option, if you are going to go for socialite money couple either for short term kicks or long term retirement strategy Troy’s advice is sound but incomplete as where to shop these women out and how to game them tends to be very specific. Hmmm…maybe I finally found an article I can submit

    1. If I am not marriage minded why would I lock myself into a relationship at all? For pussy?
      I may have been guilty of this, once, for a short while. (Although I never had previously thought about it in these terms.) I found it more expedient than having to go out and find pussy anew, this was at a time when I had more demands on my time than dating and going out to bars, etc.

      1. Between headaches, family obligations, arguments, dinners you don’t want to go to, friends, shit you pay for bla bla bla I would have to think that going out would be cheaper.

      1. that is one place…but not close to the only one or, for my money, one of the best…and it is only seasonal and they are on the look out for assholes like us when they go out there.

        1. But
          The real money lives there(and elsewhere)
          And lonely, and horny, and rich
          Perhaps start a white man gadening service to get in the (back)door

        2. yes, it is there. I am not saying it is not. But I think there are better places in the city to find and score on this level

        4. That is one. Plaza as well. Also Bar Pliedes at the Surrey. The Mark Bar at the Mark and, of course, Bemelman’s at the Carlyle. The Princeton, Yale and Harvard Clubs, DTA, Union Club, Elio’s on 2nd avenue, The Met Opera during events, Diner en Blanc, Noorwood Club, Lotos Club, Parlor (the younger version of the Harvard Club), Diner Lab, New York Yacht Club, Salon de Ning on the roof of the Peninsula, Events at the Met Museum, Morini, Guggenheim Jazz, Valcuse, Bilboquet, Jazz night at Rotisserie Georgette I could literally keep going for an hour and that is all just on the island.

        2. The guy pumping gas in the Hamptons is likely not the one pumping rich princesses in the Hamptons.

        3. No, but he could be. There is a serious investment of time and effort that goes into courting socialites. There is also a lot of luck and you can wash out. It is a lot like trying to make the majors. You start young, work very hard, large chance you will totally wash out, may play some AA ball, minor leagues and who knows, every now and then if you are on point you may go pro. I will grant that some people start out in a better position to do this, but if your life goal when you are a young buck is to live a life of leisure and social life it can be done. You need to make a name of your self, playing polo helps, being liked helps, knowing how to dress, who to speak to and how to speak to them.

        5. you are the first person i have ever seen admit to that.

        6. “There is no such thing as luck, merely opportunity meeting preparedness.”
          Gen. George Patton

    3. I agree, but I think the problem is the majority of guys out there still want some relationship or family at some point, and the majority of women are unsuitable mates. Maybe it’s only 55% but I think most guys still do want this. I’ve talked to enough multi-divorced friends and they tell me it sucks, but they want a family, so they will try again and again.
      I cannot understand ever having a Tinder slut as a girlfriend. I mean, we all have that one guy who tried to date the stripper, right? This is no different. It’s actually worse because at least it’s cool to say you’re dating a stripper. But everyone knows it won’t work.
      I think the reason guys are dating Tinder sluts is because of the lack of dateable women. Game developed because guys were failing in social interactions with women, because the behavior of women changed. Game solves your sexual needs, but it does a far worse job at emotional / relationship needs. Sure, some things apply to LTR, like holding frame, but in general Bang! is not a manual on how to raise a family.
      I have one buddy who has wifed up a 40 year old, and 2 more are dating girls in their late 30s or early 40s. This is for one reason only: The guys want relationships and they have deemed the young Tinder sluts too crazy and promiscuous for girlfriend material, and have taken a menopausal woman as the best readily available option for them.
      So what we have is guys desiring a relationship making really poor choices, such as dating sluts and menopausal women, because they are the best relative choices available to meet the desire for relationship.
      Hell, that’s fundamentally why I seek out foreign women for relationships. It’s insane to look thousands of miles away for someone speaking another native language, but it’s the best option available to me. Patrice O’Neal did a great bit about how he has to risk his life by getting on a plane and flying to a primitive country to bang their hookers just to experience feminine women. Yet another example of a man making a crazy decision, which is the best option available to him to meet his needs.

      1. Sup spicy, your best option at this point may just be to seek outside of the cultural Marxist societies pushing these behaviour altering agendas. Leaving men to bicker amongst themselves like little fucking boys about who’s dick is bigger or hating on black people for fucking their whorish mothers, when there lies people who are profiting from all of it.
        We see the effects and can predict where all of this may lead if it continues down the path for another few years. Can you imagine if this plan was put into action planning 50, 100, 200 years ahead into the future? Some may not give a shit and keep fucking random thots until their dick falls off. That’s cool. But make no mistake, men are responsible.

    4. Getting into a relationship does not mean you are ‘locked in’. Sure you have to be committed to her and likewise the same for her back, but there are no binding contracts that prevent you or her from breaking up at a point where either feel its not working for them anymore.Often results in heartbreak for the dumpee. These days very desirable men have no shortage of attractive women who are fine being in his fk-buddy roster. Zero desperation or commitment or being sweet/kind is needed by him. As you drop lower in the ranks for men the ‘I just want you for a fwb/fk-buddy’ without dropping his standards below sexy, becomes less & less easy to pull off. For average joe dudes its typically going to be easier to end up with a more attractive gf than a fwb. For some men serial relationships (STR or LTR) with women they have stronger attraction to is a better deal. No need to promise marriage…that’s locked in.

  27. Troy has written a great article on girl-logic here: She wants to feel special. She wants a man with options (who isn’t looking for a relationship). A man with options will not narrow them, unless a girl is special. Therefore, if a man with options chooses her, she’s special.

  28. Having been married for many years and having raised 3 kids, including watching them play the dating game of today, I can honestly say that any male who does NOT have a frame of indifferent control is doomed. You show being needy? You’re screwed (and not in the good way). You have to make her want you, and then work to keep her wanting you. Anything else and she’ll start to resent and then despise you, and that leads to cheating and divorce rape.
    You pick the girl, then you have to maintain frame of not caring and have and abundance mentality. Make her desperate. Make her want the relationship. And then work your ass off to keep it that way.
    Otherwise, you end up cheated on, cucked, and divorce-raped – like my brother did.

    1. I’ve witnessed this first hand. I don’t have a brother, but this is exactly what happened to my brother-in-law, twice. Weak frame will ruin your life.

    4. That’s good advice. Being married myself, and I’ll add a lot longer then any of my old buddies, a husband does have to continue to make a wife want him, and includes playing hard to get as needed. It can be by the littlest things, but it’s always something I keep track of. Hell, we all played games while dating, and no husband should think that stops upon marriage.
      Now an interesting trend in regards to who wears the pants in the marriage is that many wives these days are starting to earn more then their husbands. I’m in that situation myself. It’s not that I’m not a professional, as I actually have staff where my wife does not, but she just has more paperwork to her. It would be interesting for ROK to address this subject as more women are going to college vs. men so this is a growing trend. I was just reading recently about how women are now facing the fact of having to marry down in order to get married. Personally, for one, I run the household finances, which includes handing out the cash, and NO separate accounts/ splitting bills.
      I know several guys in similar situations to mine, but I’m sure that their wives run their finances. My wife can do so if she outlives me by 30 days.

    5. I am on the way to my tenth anniversary with my 27 year younger bride. When she gets all uppity she says I would never find another like her. I say, there’s the door, don’t let it hit you on the ass on the way out, and that the next one will be completely different. It seems to work. But it is the accumulation of a ton of scar tissue on my dead black stony heart that makes the dread real.

  29. “Men must wear the pants once again. A woman will not want a man’s pants to come off unless he truly wears them. A man who truly wears the pants will make the woman wet. When the woman is wet, she will moan, ‘Oh, yassss, yassss, you make me so hot, I must rub my little love raisin.’ As real men we must regain the pants. A day without pants is a day without poosy. A day without poosy is a day without meaning. A man without pants is a man who has no future as a man. A man without pants is a man who will be the beta. And the beta will never be a mater. So men must wear the pants once again.” – Ernest Hemingway

    2. “Oh, yassss, yassss, you make me so hot, I must rub my little love raisin.”
      rotfl lmbao
      ” As real men we must regain the pants.”
      http://www.returnofkings.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/suit-guy.jpg
      “A day without pants is a day without poosy.”
      “And the beta will never be a mater.”
      That’s not correct, men actually can become mothers today
      http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170608104043-01-trans-man-pregnant-trnd-exlarge-169.jpg
      man, I’m dying 😀
      Are you the one with the leash?

      1. The man went to the skiff and baited two hooks with $100 bills. The sun was just coming up above the horizon, and the brackish water sparkled like dancing fireflies. He glanced at the boy, who was busying himself with the bait boxes. “How did the Great DiMaggio do yesterday,” he asked, without looking up from his task. The boy offered a puzzled look and explained he had not read the morning box scores. The old man peered at the light-skinned women in bikinis who were already beginning to cluster in the shallow surf, a few yards offshore. “No matter,” he said to the boy. “We will soon be fucking more bleached assholes than a gynecologist at a nymphomaniac convention.”

      2. “Yes,” he told the blonde tourist who had stopped to ask directions to the local cantina. “I am the one with the leash.”
        The old man went to the skiff and baited two hooks with $100 bills. The sun was just coming up above the horizon and the brackish water came alive and began to sparkle like a shimmering blue diamond. He glanced at the boy, who was busying himself with the bait boxes.
        “How did the Great DiMaggio do yesterday,” he asked the boy, without looking up from his task.
        The boy offered him a sheepish look and explained that he had not read the morning box scores. The old man shaded his eyes with his withered left hand and peered at the light-skinned women in bikinis who were already beginning to cluster in the shallow surf a few yards offshore.
        “No matter,” he said to the boy. “We will soon be fucking more bleached assholes than a gynecologist at a nymphomaniac convention.”
        (An excerpt from “The Old Man and the She”, by Ernest Hemingway.)

      3. Ok the bottom picture is obviously from the NYC no pants day which I have actually participated in in the past and had an absolute blast doing so. This is like finding a picture of a bunch of people in speedos jumping into the Atlantic ocean in cony island on January 1st and using it as indicative of the culture in general. As for the first pic…what in the fucking fuck of fucktoberfest
        EDIT: I might have top and bottom mixed up. For the record, the Bleecker Street Subway Station with the two men with no pants is no pants day in NYC.

        2. Actually it is usually a Sunday. More of a photo op / day drink bar crawl

    3. Men must wear the pants once again.
      Don’t tell this to the scots!

    1. Curious, how many videos do you have of you picking up women live? I have never had any videos, and while I don’t write about game theory here, that doesn’t mean that I haven’t picked up scores of women.
      Who in the hell besides a Millenial would take videos of himself picking up women? Usually the videos we do see are discredited ten minutes after posting, so it’s not like that would really help the cause one way or another.
      Want proof that his shit works, go out and try it. Troy is almost always on point when his advice is tested in real life. That’s where the wheat separates from the chaff; reality.

      1. really? I have never even heard of anyone taking a video of themselves picking someone up other than those hilarious gold digger videos online. Seems like a lot of bunk from someone who don’t know which way is up. While this article I am iffy on for reasons I list below, Troy consistently puts out top rated, accurate and intelligent game articles which absolutely resonate as true and show first hand experience and he does it in a fun way. Not sure why anyone would bitch about that other than the normal bitchy mcbitchsteen i can’t get pussy so i hate everyone who can reasons

        1. “I don’t always shoot videos of myself picking up a woman, but when I do, the woman is my sister, and I’m trying to impress my male friends.” – The Most Interesting Beta in the World

        2. “I don’t always shoot the women I pick up but when I do I do it twice first with cum and then with a .45”
          –The Most Interesting Hindu In The World (you know who he is)

        4. Oh my god…that’s just…I can’t even…did he really just say that….yassss!

        5. “If you have to ask if i said it or not I said it…twice”
          –Gandhi

        8. “Billy Dee Williams got almost as much pussy as Neil deGrasse Tyson. But not as much as me.” – Gandhi

        11. “Laugh you fuckers – you’ll have plenty of time to cry when you’re dead.” – Stevie Ray Vaughan

        16. Right, basically what I’m saying. You want proof his stuff works, go out and try it. He’s on point on basically everything.

        18. Ohhh! So that’s what he meant when he told her “Don’t worry baby, I have this birth control thing covered. ” .45 indeed!

      2. Actually I have collected some evidence so people know that I don’t lie. As long as Mark Cuckerberg doesn’t erase my Fuckbook account I have many of’em, although far from all, among my FB friends and on Messenger. Pics and videos with me and the girls, nude pics sent to me etc.

        1. Just curious…if you meet, land and smash the puss what in gods name do you care if people think you lied about it. I have, on the other hand, been thinking about setting up a nanny cam in my bedroom and recording all sexual encounters as proof that they were consensual

        2. I don’t in a way but it’s good to have just in case and it helps me to influence people. For instance I have about 5 friends, between 20-34 who I sort of mentor, and they need concrete evindence so I strengthen my ethos. And sometimes it’s just amusing to show some pics.

  31. Yep, Mick Dundee can attest to this. If you want to have a girlfriend get a fuck buddy, counter intuitive I know, but when have women ever made sense?

      1. “I get more pussy in the ROK comments section than I get eating curry at the Hooters in New Delhi.” – Gandhi

  35. “It is a general rule of human nature that people despise those
    who treat them well, and look up to those who make no concessions.”
    ― Thucydides
    (who may have been quoting Ghandi….)

  36. Men in the 1950s were usually in the same league as other men. Men are more diverse nowdays. The sexual revolution changed women for the worst. Also, it is always human nature to want what it can not have. I promise you a pretty woman that is aloof or indifferent but not a stuck up bitch will get the same results with men that these guys are claiming to get with women. Of course you some men and women tire of games and would they commit to someone they think is sleeping around. Those people will not always tell you that though.

  37. Here’s the problem with this otherwise reasonable article.
    I don’t want to date sluts from Tinder.
    I think Troy is right in that searching after a girlfriend will get you rejected today.
    If a guy wants a girlfriend, he needs to meet a slut and then have a LTR with her.
    That’s not the kind of girl I want to date.
    So I’m strictly ONS and dating foreign women at this point (who you can flirt with and chase).

    1. One step forward, 2 steps back. Another step forward, another 2 steps back. That’s the mating dance.

  38. Lord so true. It seems women share the most interest when you have none, or are in a relationship. Interestingly, they also seem to magically know when you just entered a new relationship.

  40. “So for these reasons you must bang her—and bang her good, over a period of time—before you should even think about making her your girlfriend.”
    For the religious men on here: Actually, full-on sex isn’t even necessary for her to start bugging you about becoming your girlfriend. Making out, or even holding her hand, can sometimes be enough, when combined with genuine aloofness and an abundance mentality where you aren’t considering her as your girlfriend in a million years.

    1. I speak generally and impersonally here so please do not take this personally. this whole alpha male nonsense (if I may use the word) – simply has to stop – it was folks selling ebooks and online bloggers desperate for money that came up with this crap. Being violent or assertive or egitistical does not make a person ‘alpha’. This alpha rubbish being fed people just gotta stop. There is nothing like’alpha male’. There are just men.

  43. So author failed at having a girlfriend since he always perceived L as a means to get sex, and still advices others to do the same??? What kind of fucked up world it is. Shitty article.

  44. Ha. This is male-choice given to males who are not choosers.
    When all men are given the (invented)right to choose, the value of being a chooser, devaluates.
    Then this kind of males misinterpret female-nature to so protect their ego.
    All men choosing at the same time is what leads many females to become promiscuous = followers.
    (Only females do the mating dance. Those who have no —natural— rights, become imitators…)

      1. You mean, males who are not supposed to.. they are not really choosing, they are trying to seduce(feminized). It is the role of females to chase the man in some way, to stimulate him, first with neoteny, then with sex; offspring benefits from this. Sex without bonding is a failed manipulation attempt = dysgenic
        (you posted a comment about NO sex before relationships, you are right)
        (the father is the mating guard; the state stole that from men)
        Females competing for the male is important part of the bonding process, she needs to earn the man. When she relies on sex she is cheap, and despised by other females for cheating. When he is the one trying to seduce her for sex, or convince her to start a relationship with him, he is the cheap, thus someone not worth competing for. Dominant men never needed to compete. And males at the bottom never had a chance. But the state/marriage gave them that right, and jobs, and technology, and pretty clothes, etc.
        A man choosing is a man bonding…, accepting her in his life.
        Almost similar to your other comment. You are right. Women cannot define a relationship, the dependent female cannot choose the independent man who is going to invest in her and his offspring, they can only wait for him to show real interest. Men today confuse this all the time due to indoctrination.
        Sex is temporal, bonding is permanent, so she cannot force a man to bond with her, even less when he has other options(polygyny). So the illusion of female-choice is nothing but loser females using sex to give themselves another chance, but once she sees he is the one trying to be chosen, she loses interest(he is playing the female role). If he is an important man who only wanted sex, he would leave her. Natural selection.
        (But of course the state has corrupted human mating, to make her a victim)
        Sexual selection involves the father and the man. The female is transferred from protector to protector(patrilocal). Therefore it is her father who accepts you, chooses you. This means that a dominant father(mature, experienced, rational) wants his daughters to mate with the son of another dominant father(not nobodies). This is why a female who is a whore or “independent”, is a nobody who failed repeatedly at being chosen and at bonding with a man, now viciously trying to be chosen by males, again and again.
        (she never got transferred, she got lost, probably never had a real father)
        (Now the state is her father …and pimp.)
        An interesting topic, correlated with genetics.Contradictory with PUA thinking.

        1. My friend… you just described Patria Potestas and Pater Familias…
          Great reply, by the way.

        2. You’re right, Patria Potestas/Pater Familias shares similarities, that’s very interesting thanks; makes sense cultures derive from biology.

  45. This has been exactly my experience Troy. The girls I wind up having as girlfriends are usually the ones that I can’t get rid of no matter how mean I am to them. In this sense, women choose you. I don’t think that you even have to give them great sex. The girls that I have given the best sex to are the ones that leave. The ones that I don’t really care whether they enjoy it, where I am most selfish, stay. I really don’t think that women value good sex, they only value your intimate attention.

    1. Some of the most loyal women i ever had, i only had to fuck a few good times and never had to touch them again. No sex at all. No drama and always there when i needed them. Strange but true.

      1. Because those women wanted also only fuck with you. You had mutual exchange. They did not want you for something serious i guess but used you for sex as you used them.

        1. It started out fun and then became this friendship, kind of akward thing. In the end, i just get bored and move on.

  46. When i was the lady’s favorite bodygard and taxi, i never get laid.
    When i became somewhat unreliable and cocky, i get laid.
    That’s simple but profond.
    Sure, it’s more simple when you’re fit and well groomed.
    If you are plain ugly, you’ll have to be incredibly unreliable and cocky to have any success (to a point close to violence, actually)
    But the secret sauce is quite simple: distinguish yourself from the herd in any good way, and meet enough women with some “playfull, don’t give a shit” attitude.

    1. I think it’s more that women of reproductive age are being socially engineering to sexually pursue losers. Great way to keep driving society as a whole down the [email protected]

      1. nah, it is ingrained into their psyche. The difference is today, a woman can be sexually active and independent through her 20’s. Had she tried that 100 years ago, she would have ended up a prostitute.

        1. Disagree. Women are not naturally hard-wired to be whores for losers. The species would have died off long ago if that were true.

        2. They actually are, that’s why they need to be raised by strong fathers and then handed off to strong men to be married. A woman left to her own devices will swing aimlessly and make a general wreck of her life.

        3. What kept them in check is seeing what would happen to women who behaved like a whore and got knocked up. They would have to fend for themselves and provide for their bastard children, most turned to prostitution, they had a tough life compared to a woman who kept herself clean and married. Now that the government and court system has taken away the natural consequences, they slut it up.

        4. This social engineering was done intentionally to get the results you are describing. There has been a decades long agenda to destroy the traditional family. That’s what we are seeing.

      2. if only, it would be poetic justice.
        No, it’s just than women are attracted to men that demonstrate some kind of Power.
        Muscle, money, celebrity *but also… power over conventions. A person that don’t give a shit is an interesting target for a Young woman ’cause he’s a sort of confirmation that her lifestyle IS good…and because, of course, he seems “hard to get”.
        * Note on celebrity. You can’t be a famous singer easily, but being a ‘local celebrity’ works as well in a close/small community.

      3. You are wrong. They are NOT into losers.
        These so called “losers” are in fact (alpha) men with potential while YOU and other betas are the looooooosers.
        Why? Because you already accepted your (low) place in society and will spend the next 40 years serving the system. You made your grades, you get your 70K or whatever per year. You pay your taxes. You pay off your mortgage. You respect the law. Nothing great will come from you.
        A criminal might end in jail or get killed (she can get a beta to pay for her child any day if this happens, in the worst case the goverment will take care of her) but what if not? He could very well become a millionaire and she and her children will be rich and enjoy the good life. No surprise many women dig criminals over boring office drones while reasonably young. I would do the same.

        3. nothing like alpha/ beta. saddening people believe this alpha/beta garbage….
          perhaps women are attracted to men that demonstrate some kind of power…. that is more believable. Who exactly is an ‘alpha male’?

        4. A true “alpha male” is a leader that never backs down. You can only find that in humans with 3rd world warlords or 1st world crime bosses. Understanding female nature and manipulating it shows craftiness, but it is hardly “alpha” in the animal sense.

    1. A kid in my law school class tried to run for a student gov’t position, and wore jorts when making his speech.
      My friends and I (he was part of our group), grilled him mercilessly for that during his speech.
      I’d also add white jeans/pants to your comment as well.

  48. The trick is when you actually do want a long term relationship with the girl. You need to show enough interest that she is thinking of you, but not enough interest that it pushes her away. The alpha/beta dynamics are real here. You (should be) the alpha, she, as the beta, will not respect you or want a LTR with you unless you show you have options. From my limited experience, here are a few pointers:
    Ask her on dates, but ask other women as well. Maybe take her once, than some random girl once, then her again, than a different random girl. Show that you have options. Continue that until you are engaged and then you date exclusively.
    Save the “I love you” until you are engaged. If she says it, reply with “I know”, or “thank you”. I didn’t tell her I loved her until I gave her the ring. Now I tell her every day (although she typically says it first)
    Have your own life. Don’t let yourself get wrapped around her finger. You do that, and she will not respect you. Related, be a little undependable, but not a flake. Call and cancel apologetically on occasion.
    Mostly plan dates that you want. Plan dates that will test her. Some suggestions:
    A strenuous hike to see if she is a whiner.
    Cook a meal together.
    Do some charity work to see if she is a good as she says.
    Visit her family.
    As lame as it sounds, go shopping with her to see her spending habits.

    2. Typically, if a girl really likes you, she will enjoy doing anything on a date as long as she is with you. Be it a football game, ride a motorcycle, heck, even go to a strip bar.

      1. Agreed, once I took my wife to this ravine that people were dumping garbage. We spent the whole day loading up garbage into my pickup and cleaning up the place. Since then, she repeatedly remarked on that day.

    1. 2 scenerios:
      It keeps getting worse and we just club them over the head like cavemen
      or, more will see how stupid it became and return to a traditional dating culture.

  50. White Sharia is the only way things are going to turn around. Fornication is the reason why women get away with this shit. Also the reason why the West is in a state of social turmoil.

    1. I think that very young girls who enter into sexual relationships – 13, 14 year olds – should be strongly socially sanctioned, for their own good and that of society. It used to be, that they were sent to reform schools. Now, they are encouraged in choices which degrade them and destroy family life. If we do not change this, we will fall into chaos, violence and poverty.

      1. Absolutely. Girls handing it out that young should be in the prostitute category. Breeding with one like that only guarantees a dysfunctional bloodline.

      2. Girls used to self-police, namely by slut-shaming. Girls who were too fast and lose were essentially excommunicated.

    2. I love this concept – if any cunt or white knight bitch calls you out – just say they are islamophobe. It traps them to either a) acknowledging sharia or b) admitting they are racists because sharia is only ok if it’s not straight white men.

  51. As someone who got engaged awhile ago, I can confirm all of this.
    I put myself in the market after taking the red pill (I was purple pill beforehand), and my sole goal was to achieve conquests, and LTR be damned.
    After I began red-pilling her, she confirmed that she found other guys creepy because they didn’t do what I did: Be alpha, a leader, and not be obsessed with getting a relationship.

    1. Be careful. Care about what she does, not what she says. Creepy is not a word I would like my fiancee to use to define men. Make sure she respects the idea of masculinity.

      1. Agreed. When a woman does that echoing what a man says, usually it’s a scripted ruse. Biggest way to lose your ass down the road. A good woman knows to be seen and not heard, unless spoken to.

      2. She defined as “creepy”, guys who were needy and tried to pedestalize her.

    2. “Be alpha, a leader, and
      not be obsessed with getting a relationship.”
      Alpha male was invented by online bloggers and the pickup world to make money. What exactly is being ‘alpha’? being prideful, egotistical, control maniac, violent and vain. Sounds more like foolishness. Folks there is nothing like ‘alpha male’; there are just simply men.

      1. There are differences among men you know. You can’t say that a powerlifter is the same as a “pajama boy” kind of dude.
        And as bad as those adjectives you described might seem to the uninitiated, they’re necessary. One of my close friends has a similar opinion to you on these things, and he’s gotten walked all over/cheated on by his girlfriend for years. Why? because he doesn’t have enough pride, ego, or vanity to put an end to it.

    3. If a women is only attracted to alphas – she isn’t red pilled. A red pilled woman knows her place and understands even a beta male has more value than she deserves (as long as he isn’t a slob/truly abusive/ or a societal leech). Being attracted to only alphas is basically saying a woman’s undeserved entitlement complex and hypergamy is unchained. Her gina tingles …

      1. I take a different approach to what makes a woman “red-pilled”.
        For me, her understanding what hypergamy is and rejecting it, as well as rejecting most forms of social media & attention seeking, while also seeing how feminism is bad for her… make her “red-pilled”.

  52. Reading these comments gives me the impression we are watching the controlled demolition of western culture and family.

  53. That’s a lot of work you’re advocating for some pussy..of which a “girlfriend” brings nothing else to a relationship, pump and dump.

  54. at last, Troy deserve my kudos for this fine article! thumbs up way up Troy! thanks for sharing!

  55. Troy, are you misogynist? If you like to be an asshole you will get the same asshole. It will be the best fit, becouse if you get a good girl you will make her unhappy.
    Great relationships counselor!

    1. LOL! You have the hots for him now, don’t you?

  57. Maybe the french are right marriage is for family then you can fool around for fun.

  58. “Friendly and pleasant” is hot. A bit shy, kind – even hotter. But then again – you are only interested in girls who know how to apply make up and say the word “totally” at least twice in every sentence, so what does my opinion matter?
    But just so you know, I am an average person. And I’d rather sit in the corner and cry for 3 months than “pursue” a guy myself. And if I’m like this, it means, thousands of girls are like that, too. But then again – maybe I’m not beautiful enough.
    Just re-title your article as “Millennial USA-born entitled women born into good families and with a trust fund don’t want relationships bla-bla-blah.”

  59. All very true. As in any bilateral transaction (real estate, employment, love) the maxim holds that whichever party cares least wins.

  60. The ideal man speaks little and correctly. Uses one
    Serious and imperative tone of voice. Speak in command tone. Does not ask
    Permission to his companion: he orders, but does not force him to obey,
    Leaving her the right of refusal. He does not talk about himself. Do not
    Regrets Do not confess your weaknesses. Do not cry in the presence of
    lifemate. It is not chatty. Look into your eyes suddenly, so
    Fixed and firm. He does not watch her all the time, just once in a while.
    It does not stay on top: it almost ignores its existence. Do not argue. No
    Polemics: simply informs. He is a king in his domain and not a
    servant. Do not miss it, do not miss it. It does not besiege. Do not stay
    Looking at the bodies of other women, because she is not lustful and
    Nor a fornicator. Nevertheless, when the female finally seeks her
    For sex, shows his strength in a wild sex overwhelming like
    A hurricane. It’s an earthquake in bed. No sings: pleases without effort.
    Do not scream. Do not let dirty games go by
    White: know how to return them. He’s not a clown. It is not funny. Do not laugh
    Often: only smiles lightly from time to time. When
    Finally laughs, his laugh seems to have something strange. Take to
    In situations. It dominates the relationship for good and not for evil,
    Treating her like a girl. Do not mind your partner
    Asking your opinion all the time. Do not get irritated by
    Provocations: he knows how to return the consequences to the one who launched them. IT IS
    Impenetrable, distant and mysterious. It does not prohibit or revenge itself:
    Returns the consequences, rewarding the sincere ones and taking the
    Insinceres who try to deceive you to bear your own deeds. No
    Run after lies because you do not care if you’re being fooled
    or not. Do not compromise for free: it charges a high price. It is a
    premium. It is valued. It is not affected sensibly. It is not delicate.
    You can have lots of money but you despise it. It is above prejudices
    Social rights. He is neither a moralist nor a “right” fellow who is good
    mores. When you enter an environment, it attracts women’s attention
    Because it ignores them. Do not beg to be loved. No need for
    Passionate love to be happy: despise it for knowing that it is false and
    Hypocrite, prefers true love. Help. Orient. Takes care. Protects.
    Guide. He does not commit injustice with his companion. It keeps the reason
    Your side always. Uses hardness and firmness for good and not for
    bad. It’s disconcerting. Surprised. It is not predictable. Do not move
    With tears of onion, ignores crocodile tears, is moved
    Only with real tears, who knows how to identify very well. Do not run
    Behind whimsical claims. Merges opposing characteristics.
    It is both good and, in a sense, “bad”, indifferent and
    Protector. Punish adultery with a definitive, unappealable or
    contempt. He never commits a crime of passion. If you are betrayed or
    Deceived, their simple absence and contempt will suffice to
    To punish the traitor who will suffer for not finding another equal to
    substitute him. It’s the best of all because it does what none do: treat it
    Like a girl, making her feel small, child, reminding her
    Childhood, instead of deifying it, by giving him offerings in the
    altar. Your heart is worth gold, it charges a high price to
    Commitment: total, full and transparent fidelity. It’s a mystery
    incomprehensible. In short: he is a real Man.

  61. This logic only applies to infidels.
    All the people I know that are married for decades are people from christian communities, and in mine it is not different. Most of us begin courtship by the age of 17 more or less and are married by the age of 24.
    And there’s no such a thing as casual romantic relationship between christians, because romance is no such trivial matter that can be treated as a casual thing. Romance whitout compromise is mere vanity and waste of time.
    Of course I don’t expect Americans to understand, since their christianism is just a meme nowadays.

  62. This article hits the nail on the head. My own saying was that a woman only wants to spend time a man to keep another woman from having him. If that isn’t a threat, she doesn’t want him.

  63. To Troy (the author of this article), you sound young (and inexperienced). You said: “L was far from being some stereotypical ‘club slut’.” But you’re wrong. She was definitely a slut, and I’ll tell you why. If a girl wants to date, but isn’t looking for “anything serious”…..then that is a textbook example of a slut.
    Yes, a slut can fall in love, and have relationships. Yes, a slut can want to get married. But you should never consider the slut as a viable long-term mate, because SLUTS are usually unable to properly PAIR BOND with a man. Any woman who says that she “DOES NOT WANT ANYTHING SERIOUS” is providing you with clues to her SLUTHOOD. That is a classic slut “tell”, right there.
    Avoid women like that, unless you only care about getting laid.

  65. Feminists are why this is happening. Mostly men who provided for women are sick and tired of their bullshit and laziness nonstop self indulgence, undeserved narcissism, and shameless gold digging and financial murders no of men. but Women are getting everything they asked for, so men went looking to the marketplace to replace them and their nonstop male destruction. Men can’t really replace women for reproduction yet, but it is the only thing women can now hold over men’s heads. Manginas and White Knights enabled feminists. Feminism is destroying the human race, congrats but at least men will be able to go into the night with a satisfied smile in their faces without the constant feminist screech and whine.
    Women have done this to themselves. Feminism has never been about rights or equality, just more efficient way of infiltrating manipulative and unearned gynocentrism and turning society into a vehicle to criminalize innocent men and destroy humankind for the sake of selfish consumerism and turning men into slaves to steal their labor and resources. Feminist don’t even care about children except that they are token insurance policies supported by hyper gynocentric state and courts playing to the tune of the constant whine of imaginary “victimization”. Feminism turned relationships and child bearing into legalized state supported prostitution for court ordered judgments and legalized wholesale state sponsored and sanctioned civil contracted PROST1TUTION. REAL relationsh1ts don’t require a civil contract, but its all women seek anymore. 80 percent of the divorces come from women who “are not happy”(the universal wild card played to get that divorce) in the relationsh1t THEY CREATED, but they are virtually guaranteed through the courts regardless of WHY they are getting it because they have the state sanctioned MARRIAGE CIVIL CONTRACT and gynocentric judges, regardless of how good of a wife they never were. These parasites JUST NEVER STOP in their self indulgence and victimhood.

  66. ‘Yes,’ they might say,
    ‘I know this game stuff—being the bad guy and all that—works well on
    club sluts and random girls. But when I meet someone who I want to be in
    a relationship with then I should do things differently.’
    And like the author says, its literally like shooting yourself in the knee here.. call me a hopeless romantic ahah but yeah already happened too many times for me to fail when it actually matters so , change is in order..

  68. The calibre of the comments on ROK is amazing. Thank you all. I’ve actually copied and pasted a bunch of them for easy reference and I’m sure they’ll form the basis of my LTR game in the next few years.

  69. It’s hilarious how the feminutsis think The Handmaiden’s Tale is something that will happen in the future

  70. What if I, as a traditional Roman Catholic, desire to wait until marriage to have sex? I mean I’m not a virgin but at some point I’d like to meet a girl and just do the whole thing the right way, the way God commands us to do it.
    “You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not commit adultery. But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart. And if thy right eye scandalize thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee. For it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell. And if thy right hand scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell.” – St. Matthew 5:27-30 (DRA)
    “More souls go to Hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason.” – Our Lady of Fatima (1917)
    How do I generate attractiveness without being overly sensual and not at all sexual? Is there Catholic game?
    Now correct me if I go wrong here but I imagine that it comes down to three things:
    1) being a solid provider (so I need money)
    2) great deeds (I need to live a life of greatness).
    3) establishing the frame (keeping the power to leave the relationship/excommunicate her if she isn’t up to my standards)
    Yea or nay?

  72. this is another reason why I don’t sympathise for women who wind up suffering from std’s, but the problem is, they have no qualms passing them onto men in general, but what I say is.
    I thank my lucky stars that I’m ugly and autistic, because looking back, this has saved me from severely compromising my health down town, I haven’t succumbed to a fitness/dancer/gym lifestyle with a decent diet to wind up on a death bed with incurable diseases from winding up running the risk of ending up being caught from some promiscuous chameleon who has lied about her sexual past. I shall happily reside in being alone as opposed to being caught with the whole shebang (no pun intended)

  73. Girls are having sex with so many guys at once if try to take it slow they’ll ditch you for one of the guys they’re banging. Unfortunately I think the author is right in today’s environment.

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