192 thoughts on “How Human Resources Departments Are Ruining STEM Jobs For Men”

1. simple … if you are a skilled person , refuse to go into HR point blank … tell them that if you’re going to apply for the job it has to be with the hiring manager or just walk. It also shows them you aren’t a pushover

   1. That actually works. I’ve done it for my current job. Talked to the manager directly, he did the HR paperwork shuffle, and I never saw an HR person until I was in the door and on company time.

      1. I worked in Nuclear engineering for 20+ years and have been a quant in financial services for 15+ years now. I have never gotten a job when I had to go through HR. I am a old white guy now, but even as a young engineer it became obvious that if I was talking to HR then I was lost. One time I even was asked by an HR maven if I was married. I said I was aobut to be. She said good, as they didn’t hire single men. If they had this policy against single women it would have been illegal. I checked with an administrative law judge (female) that I knew later and she said it sucks but it is completely legal as I was not in a protected group. Do you know the only people in the US that are not in a protected group? White, native born, heterosexual men. If you are in that group they can discriminate agaisnt you openly and you can do nothing.

2. Inhuman Resources is a more accurate description.

3. Next thing you know they’re gonna make the Mexican guys at Home Depot take girls to do off the books landscaping.

   1. The one thing you can count on oppressive government creating is a vibrant black market of skills and products tax free and under the table. That’s the first thing I learned in the Peoples Republic of California.

      1. Ever see anyone in the trades work under the table? Yeah like all of them.

4. I’m not in the STEM field, but I remember going for an interview once, and I thought the questions they asked were stupid and meaningless for an office job — name an instance when you encountered a problem and handled it (or something like that). I thought it was vague and irrelevant. It wasn’t rocket science or management, and they were all women interviewers. I gave an honest answer to them that I couldn’t think of one, and I really didn’t care about working for them. HR is useless. When did they start to make their appearances in businesses, anyway? Used to be you talked to the person that you were going to work for, right?

   1. HR is a legal shield between you and the management/owners. If the state reduced its intervention into employment matters you would see these HR departments evaporate in a few years.

   2. name an instance when you encountered a problem and handled it
      Was there never a time you went to print something only to encounter the problem of the printer being out of paper and you handled it by putting some paper in the printer?

   3. An engineering company sent me an email telling me to fill out their test. It included story problems like, “If Robert has seven fish today, and gets nine more tomorrow. ..”
      I sent an email to a company exec, the theme being, “REALLY?” Never heard back.

      1. In my first job interview out of the Navy I got handed one of these tests from some secretary. I looked at it for a while then took it back to her and told her I wan’t going to fill it out, that everything they needed was on my resume. She sneered but said you’ll get hired, they always hire guys like you. And she was right.

5. Oddly I seem to do better in HR interviews than the technical interviews. Not sure why this is.

   1. You must have good game.

6. I don’t work in STEM and fortunately our HR department is very small. They serve a useful purpose in that when they conduct preliminary interviews they usually weed out the crazies. They do lean heavily toward other women though and then minorities. I have been in second interviews with someone cleared by HR looking at the guy’s resume wonder why he was even at the table. When you advertise 3-5 years of experience and the guy barely has one you know he is sitting at the table not because of any kind of merit.
   More then one time have the HR gals been caught trying to slip a loser BF into a part time job or contractor gig without going through the process. But because they run the onboarding process they usually just get a slap on the wrist and told not to do that again. I object to this more on principle then anything else. Frankly I couldn’t care who is emptying my trash or running the office errand which those guys tend to end up doing.

7. I won’t mention where I work, but this isn’t even half of what I have to deal with. Years ago, a minority school was heavily recruited in my company because the government contract wanted ‘diversity’. Most of the kids brought in couldn’t code “hello, world” in C, but they were hired for skin color and/or vaginas. Hundreds of man-years of effort were wasted trying to teach them how to program real-time systems – and all left as soon as they could find work elsewhere. Now that I’m on the other side (the dark side, some would say), minority status counts for more than anything in promotions, assignments, rewards, favorable evaluations, etc. HR is worthless unless you’re one of those minorities. Job requirements have been loosened in the name of ‘equality’, leaving men to pick up the hard tasks that the so-called equal people can’t do. Straight white male? You can almost totally forget about a promotion or plum job opportunity.

8. Human = from humus, earth, soil, shit.
   Resources = re-sourced = recycled from elsewhere
   Most HR personnel are shit recycled from elsewhere.

9. From my own observations in both academia and the corporate world, I can say it’s usually white women who benefit the most from those “diversity and inclusion” programs, followed by minority women. A couple of rungs down the affirmative action ladder, you have the minority men, while white men -even those with a disability – aren’t on the ladder at all and are left to fend for themselves on the job market.
   Diversity, in essence, boils down to a massive bailout program for women without skills or talent to the detriment of men with skills and talent.

   1. well said. Only thing you left out is fags. Fags are HUGE winners with all this.

   2. The word is out that East Indians are out to take over these fields via fake degrees and resumes and nepotism. Once a department is taken over by them, and they put their caste members into managerial positions, they conduct a sweep to replace everyone, including women and non-Indian minorities, out of the place.
      It’s even a running joke that when HR has a person tour the company in an attempt to generate some paperwork trail to show that non-Indians have a chance, they take them around the “whitest” section of the company in an attempt to keep them around long enough so that their candidancy appears to have been taken seriously. They needn’t worry (the government will rarely sue a company for discrimination unless it’s by a white against a non-white) but they run through the routine anyway.

      1. Happened to me. Right after I got out, I took an interview for a technician job making electronic components for shits n giggles after I could not reenlist.
         My interviewers were a Indian female lead engineer, a African male lead engineer, a Latina female HR cunt, and seriously blue pill factorum skinny nerd beta male engineer. He was obviously the only one pulling for me. The white female HR cunt somehow forgot that my interview was that day. So it started 40 minutes late. I was fuckeeeeedddddedddd!
         Anyway, I got asked something like four or five times if I had “Any issue with a highly diverse environment?”
         I responded the first time stating that in the service I worked with military members from all over the world. Malaysia, PI, China, Africa, Jamaica, and Pacific Islander to name a few. My first son was half black, my wife was South Asian and came in with me. The African guy gave me a look of displeasure when I said the race of the females I banged children into. LOLOL
         They asked three or four more times. And then proceeded to take me around the shop floor. The white guys seemed gay, and highly annoyed with their minority peers assembly methods. LOL
         They were going to pay me 14.50/hour for a job that requires a two year AA Electronic Engineering degree worth at least 30k in investment, and two years at least of your time.
         All they were hiring was minorities, and white gay guys. Obviously, because I was a vet, they had to entertain me.
         Fuck them. I hope they go under.

         1. The last place I worked for I was told by my (semi-rational) female manager that I was the wrong sex for advancement in the company. She said it straight out when I asked about growth opportunities, and didn’t say it with glee, she was simply stating a truth and asked that I not share it outside of the confines of the office.
            The company used to be nearly all male management, they get one female appointed director of HR and within 5 years all of the male managers except one were replaced with lunch-lady women who only hire their own kind. My manager was actually not cut out in that mold (she predated the HR Director) and wasn’t particularly pleased with most of the choices being made, and was direct about it.
            That’s the modern world workforce.

         2. These businesses will fail or be the first to be automated. Nothing can stop the market.

         3. I was laughing my head off that STEM supposedly is a “merit” environment. In some ways, it is but even a few decades ago, there’s an unwritten law that if you piss off management, it doesn’t matter if you crap gold eggs, they WILL fire you or harass you away. In one case, they brought me in obstensibly to cover for a guy for a month while he went on vacation but instead, it was to look over his shoulder and then replace him. What a bunch of ***bags but I took it because I was flat broke at the time and had relocated. Just to punish me, they didn’t want me either so they wound up cobbling someone in house to try to keep things going.
            On the contrary, STEM is about as corrupt as other fields and this is why there are such scandals as the Target data breach where millions of cardholder’s records were leaked to Russia because upper management got bribed to hand outsource the work. Pet favorites often mismanage accounts. IT is so efficient that when money is wasted by corrupt managers, it goes unnoticed.
            It’s not just white women and non-Indian minorities now in the game but Indians have taken the race nepotism game to a whole new level. Google “Apex bribery indictment”. They get fake diplomas and resumes printed up and then bribe managers to get them hired. It’s a funny kind of racist free-for-all taking place and now white women and non-Indian women are being thrown under the bus. Pardon me, but I am more amused than outraged that anti-white male race hustlers are being outhustled.

         4. In some, strange, way there is more work being generated by bad workers. The stuff from affirmative action recipients is so badly written that it takes 5 white guys to clean up the mess. Old time mainframe COBOL programmers are in especially hot demand to reinstate 1990’s infrastructure that had been replaced by newly written JAVA platforms, but since the JAVA stuff crashed they went back to the mainframe. Better to spend a few extra minutes filling in an old upper-case form than a JAVA based application that doesn’t work at all.
            That’s what happened with the obamacare website.

         5. On a societal level, forced continuation of such inefficient processes through government diktat will mean an economic collapse. Notwithstanding technological revolution. But we are on the cusp of exactly that.
            Either these companies will fail, non PC businesses will replace them, or automated businesses will replace them. The wastage of resources are effectively Keynesian demand creation and without a real economy to sustain it, it will lead to inflation and depression. Notwithstanding a technological revolution.
            However, contrary to most times in history, now there is, or will be in a few decades, a very real economy that can replace most of these workers.
            The workers that will be needed are the technicians and specialists that can maintain the robots and design the economy.
            I think either it will become really clear cut at that point, because competition for these jobs will be so fierce and corporate or service jobs so unnecessary that the waste jobs will be totally unnecessary and unjustifiable.
            Or, the wage needed to be paid to keep the waste job people unemployed will be so low due to the fall in cost of consumption that we will enter near full employment.
            Either way, in material terms it should not make much difference. In the first case, there will be a large population decline, notwithstanding government funded basic incomes, or massive Islamic immigration, or something like that. In such a situation, most of the lazy or subpar people will be happy to get their monthly check and print off something on their 3d printer. Meritocracy will remain because only the truly talented will be demanded.
            In the second case, corporations will become little more than social clubs and the real workers may have to deal with the buffoons, but be paid spectacularly more. But I still think that companies that are too bothered with diversity to compete with Amazon’s
            drones or Google’s cars will fail. Politics may delay it, but
            ultimately, nothing can stop it. At worst, like in the case of the USSR and USA, the competition will become one of governments – automated, elitist societies competing against egalitarian, backward ones.
            The number of people that are intellectually capable of doing the kind of work which will be demanded in the future is small, and no amount of education can change that. These people are almost exclusively men. We could take a stupid man, and feed him the right diet and supplements, and after a decade he would be 120-140 IQ. But we could never do that with a woman. These women doing PhDs in social sciences will be totally useless to the real economy, and the profits paid to elite workers will be so great that they will become untouchable. If the automated economy expands enough, we may see high demand for intelligent workers. The more the automated economy expands, the less demand we would see for the stupid ones. Career women might be smart and well educated, but they are not intelligent, and mostly they are not effectively creative. They will be at a strong disadvantage, regardless of their education.
            Thus in either situation I think the best thing to do for Men is to bide our time and upskill as much as we can, and increase our intelligence where possible as much as we can. The future economy will be automated and if we want to be the Men running the robots, we ought not to concern ourselves with who is serving us food.

         6. Government tries to. It will bail them out if necessary.

         7. It used to be a career where people were promoted on merit. Not any longer. It’s been political for a long time now.

         8. Ironically, back in the 80’s, I think women were more represented in computer science than today. Men entered the field as opportunities exploded in programming and administration due to more people having personal computers and therefore a greater need for programmers to provide tools for that huge market. Consider an email ad I got for turbotax recently. That program requires hundreds of talented programmers for it to work as compared to the old days of someone filling out the paperwork by hand (which I remember doing back in the 90’s.)
            The men didn’t intentionally knock women out the field. Sadly, much of the reason why women left was due to oligarch scum such as Zuckerman and Gates who wanted programmers to work 16 hour days on push releases. Many young men who were talented and committed, like in other fields of the past (oil extraction, exploration, etc.) worked under the slave conditions hoping to strike it rich. Some did. Most did not. I sadly was one of the latter. There’s a scene in a biography of Steve Jobs in Pirates of Silicon Alley where he berates and abuses a family man because he doesn’t appear to be a nerd who hasn’t gotten laid who won’t work for 16 hours a day. Ironically, he mocks the guy for refusing to say whether he’s a “virgin” or not while, ironically, it was the virgins that had no social life he wanted to work to death.
            Nonetheless, despite the harsh conditions it still provided opportunities for men (and sometimes still does as much as anything that hasn’t been effed up yet in this feminist/socialist Soviet paradise we live in now.) Management is constantly pretending to make things more efficient by laying people off and then later having to pay people more to fix the messes created. Until the next market crash which appears to be coming up now.

         9. i used to work in hospitals and think i wanted to be a doctor. i mentioned this to one of the doctors who taught at the local medical school and he straight up told me that i was going to have a hard time getting into medical school because i’m a white male.

         10. Even the Office of Personnel Management screwed the pooch on data security. Let’s hear it for competency! Question some officer that has been pronounced “CIO” for his two year stint before moving on and see. My last govt “CIO” was a Major from the Rangers. Smart guy, but not IT smart.

   3. Exactly. The only reason that blacks and other non-asian-minorities are included is so that white women can scream “RAAAAAYYYYYSSSIIIISSST!!!” if you argue against it to immediately put you on the defense.

10. A very timely article for me. Just last night and this morning I had to deal with this bullshit. I am 3 months into a project which is on schedule to be completed on the 2nd. My team has handled things really well and worked well together. Now, a particularly toxic cunt, feels like she isn’t being “included” like this is 6th grade and everyone needs to get to play.
    20 emails later I walked away form the project. Fuck it. I have 20 other things on my plate. This is a 300k project with a projected 1m cost over 10 years after and I am going to sit back and watch it explode or require quite a lot of ass kissing from my bosses to get back involved…or get fired but fuck it….I just can’t deal.
    This article points to one very important thing in all of these….men need to remember their value and leverage it at all times.
    I would remind the men here, when dealing with work, or women or life in general, the words of Shakespeare from Julius Caesar “A coward dies a thousand times before his death, but the valiant taste of death but once. It seems to me most strange that men should fear, seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come.”

    1. From my own experience whilst working on projects, women love to be and feel included into the work even though they might not bring anything to the table. I vividly remember the day when I made it clear that the Starbuck sipping and multi-seed thin crackers eating during my project design briefing would stop. They’re response? You’re good with computers aren’t you honey? *INTERNAL RAGE* Not really!! I said.
       The other guy that was with me who was a fat Blue Pill moron IT geek was more than happy to accept everything they fed him. He was so proud of himself that a bunch of average chicks were relying on him that he was blushing.
       This was an university project/course so I could’t walk away.

       1. I totally understand. You should know though, you always have the option to walk away. There may be repercussions, but there is always the option.

          1. Yes lolknee, but I wasn’t gonna be shunned away from a project which ate days of my life for some dickhead to take credit for merely writing some shit on marketing.
             Hehehe, I had to correct a female writing on the buyer’s behaviour as she didn’t do any research on the subject after I mentioned the usefulness of it.
             I got a good job reference from it anyway.

          2. At least you got something out of it.

          3. If I bail the ship I might as well take two barrels of rum with me. Arrrrrr

    2. “Now, a particularly toxic cunt, feels like she isn’t being “included” like this is 6th grade and everyone needs to get to play.”
       I’ve never heard, let alone experienced that a woman protested because she wasn’t included in sharing the bill.
       Wonder how that cunt would’ve reacted had you told her “we’ll let you to rightfully take 90% of the credit despite your erronously inscrutable notion of being left out.”

       1. yup. This one is particularly toxic. She blows up and has tantrums and the owners are too rich to be bothered so they just let her have her way and everyone suffers. This time the work is not going to get done because of it. I am sure I will eat some shit, but I am just not playing ball anymore.

          1. That sort of troublesome good-fer-nuttin cunt is quite ubiquitous, it would seem. Had my share of an office cunt whom I surely wanted to make loose some teeth but then my sorry ass would be busted in no time flat so I just played it cool and dipped my cock in the espresso I made for her.

          2. espresso cock sounds good, but I am going to play hard ball. Let the company suffer for her imput. I have spent too long working my ass off picking up the pieces she has dropped only for her to have the time to take credit for the good and push what is wrong onto my plate.
             I am going to stand my ground. Even in the worse case scenario, I will be fine.

          3. Sounds like it is time to start looking for a new job.

          4. Nobody can take advantage of you without your permission.

          5. Only if I want to. Job security is pretty tight here. The idea is crossing my mind depending on how this latest gambit plays out.

          6. Actually, the detestable taxmen can take advantage of people’s possessions sans permission.

          7. It’s sad when women don’t know which old women are the one’s they ought to listen to.

          8. If you will be fine even in worst case scenario, you have a lot of leverage

          9. if you’re unattached and you have f-you $$$ (which it sounds like you do) why not chill in eastern europe for a year or two? wake up when you feel like it, spend a few hours a day working out, studying the local language, reading, cooking, etc. obviously clubbing too, if you’re into that kind of thing (i’m not). meet thin, feminine women and only associate with people you actually like. that was my plan a few years ago before i met and married my unicorn and decided to attempt having a family.

          10. It isn’t a bad plan.
              I also thought about walking away and going to some other place in the US and doing that or, possibly, just walking away and staying in New York and finding the next thing.
              Truthfully, if I walk I know I will be ok but it is still a big decision. I have been with this company for nearly 2 decades, the last 4 as a senior exec. I don’t want to waste time with indecision, but also don’t want to jump in to something without thinking it through.
              I want to see how my latest gambit plays out first.

          11. one of the big advantages of EE is that you can live very cheaply there. a comfortable life on 1k a month or so should be possible in many places, so a year there without working is within reach for many guys. however, if you’ve been an exec for decades and been saving wisely, maybe you could pull off a year off in the US just as easily.
              a lot of guys have the need to have a formal job to provide structure, but i’m just not one of them. i once spent six months in ukraine not working, living the life i described above, and it was one of the happiest times of my life.

          12. It is an interesting thought. I got a part time job when I was 12 and have not spent a single day unemployed ever since. Maybe it is time.

          13. you might give it a try at least. if you don’t like it, doesn’t seem like you’d have much trouble finding employment again. as long as you have goals and projects and work on them (rather than falling into the trap of doing nothing but beer, TV, and video games as lesser men tend to do) taking a long term break from employment can be incredibly rewarding.
              when i did my half year off in ukraine, i enjoyed not having a set schedule but instead of that, i set an amount of time i’d work on each project each day. two hours of studying russian, two hours of programming, and one workout every day, for example. seemed like i actually accomplished a lot more working on things by myself without the distraction of having other people around all the time.

          14. Ouch. You might want to consider in the future making her a latte or if you’re really skilled a cappuccino.

          15. I think I’d stick to cold-brew espresso which is her fav and add some cum & spit the next time.

          16. True but Uncle Scam isn’t a “somebody” it’s a collection of collectivists who abuse their power with impunity.

          17. You’ve got to keep us updated. We are all rooting for you and for her to get fired.

          18. “and staying in New York”
              There’s your mistake lol.

          19. I’m not getting fired. The question is if I walk or not. I had a small victory today and then it’s off to Florida for me to attend a family wedding. I will see the landscape on Tuesday

          20. Maybe. I am a New Yorker through and through though. I understand this city and the city understands me.

          21. Yes indeed, it is ludicruously absurd that traitors in high places keep blathering bout Islam being “hijacked” by “militants” as opposed to – it is actually 90% Muslims who are shirking from what Allah & Moe want them to do i.e. actively subjugating infidels the way ISIS is doing. Islam’s being hijacked, my ass, it is the government of the people by the people for the people which is being hijacked by collection of collectivists .

          22. I used to feel that way myself. I lived in NY for thirty years.
              I’m much happier now that I’ve left that lib hell hole.

          23. No I meant her. Hopefully she gets fired.

          24. Cities tend to be more liberal than the countryside, even here in Canada. I’m not sure if it’s because people in the cities are disconnected from the rest of the world (busy with the rush hour and whatnot).
              I live in the country, but I visit relatives in Toronto (two hours from where I live), and you’ll notice the city is where a lot of the progressives concentrate to wreak havoc, as that’s the only area they’ll get much attention in.
              Cities obstruct knowledge of what happens outside the city, I guess.

          25. I’ve quit the last two places over females causing trouble, both technical fields, and in both cases these ladies were utterly useless, but it is not worth the fight. Once they zero in on you, it seems, the game is over. We’re at the point of no return, folks. And no, I am not working for anyone ever again. May the roads and bridges crumble. In short, you can zig, you can zag, but if they want you gone, gone you will be. The thing to do is quit strategically, in the middle of a huge project, maximum fallout. It’s the only way to end this shit. And do not go back even if they beg you.

    3. Make sure you keep all emails in hard copy form and make sure they know you are bailing them out and that they need to make it worth your while.

       1. I do that always, but this time I am taking the tactic of my not being involved will show how much I do and fuck everyone who gets hurt by it. It might be shooting myself in the foot, but nothing ventured nothing gained or something.

    4. Hahaha so you do know exactly how I felt this week dealing with psycho-cunts at work.
       Glad to know I’m not the only one willing to walk out on sadistic and insufferable idiots.
       It’s one thing if I looked up to my bosses… but in this case they are truly not worthy masters.
       “20 emails later I walked away form the project. Fuck it. I have 20 other things on my plate. This is a 300k project with a projected 1m cost over 10 years after and I am going to sit back and watch it explode or require quite a lot of ass kissing from my bosses to get back involved…or get fired but fuck it….I just can’t deal.”
       This is exactly where I’m sitting right now. What’s funny is everyone around me is so worked up and upset about this situation, and I’m just like… “Whatever happens, happens”.

    5. And in case you misunderstood me I didn’t laugh at your situation, but rather at the absurd it all is.

       1. no, I get it.

11. Oh man, I am dealing with this crap right now and it’s pissing me off. I’m a big-time STEM guy with 20 years experience doing all kinds of tech. I’m attempting to re-enter industry after a sabbatical to do some writing—and it is a complete nightmare.
    I had a recent interview that I crushed. But here’s the deal: my boss would have been Indian, his boss was Indian, and the team was Indian (5 out of the 6 people who interviewed me were Indian; this was in San Diego, USA). Well they liked me and when HR then asked me about my salary expectations and I told them what I had made before, that was the end of things, poof, done, gone, passed by with extreme prejudice. The H1B visa situation has to be stopped. These visa holders come here and do our tech jobs for what, 60-80% pay? I know this to be fact.

    1. The shitter is that they bring *nothing* of any real value to the table. Yes, they work for less, but they do shitty work almost universally. Additionally, the communication barrier for many Indian/Pakis is unbelievable, they talk like they have a mouthful of cotton balls, I really can’t make out what they’re saying most of the time. This is not restricted to me, it’s true of basically everybody they talk to.
       So we get managers who can’t communicate requirements to the Hindus because the Hindus don’t communicate for shit, the project is then put together using *God knows what* as requirements, using crap code that somebody with a 21-days book can do better than, which is handed in as the Hindus walk away feeling superior. Eventually after the project fails long enough and becomes a drain, they bring in us white dudes to fix it (aka write the project from scratch using actual requirement documentation).
       In what universe is this efficient or cost effective?

       1. I quit my job because I couldn’t stand dealing with this crap, and two years later it seems to have only gotten worse. Most times I cannot even understand these fuckers. Yes, a garbled mouth full of cotton. But they do know how to play their scam. They are willing to work 10-16 hour days and never complain. They go to all the meetings and agree with everything. They look like they are working hard, and for significantly less pay. But they are sloppy and the communication barrier causes issues. I’d prefer 6 hours of clear competence to 16 hours of slop any day. Oh, if only I was a policy maker!

          1. “I’d prefer 6 hours of clear competence to 16 hours of slop any day. ”
             Could not agree more. And, those 16 hours of “slop” are going to take 24 hours for your “clearly competent” IT guy to unravel/fix. Again, the savings is simply an illusion. The really good IT guys in India come to the US and make US wages. The 2nd string stays in India and commands a “near-US” wage for work that’s not anywhere close to the same standard.

       2. From article I read a about two years ago about outsourcing in Chemical Engineering to the India, the primary reason for outsource is its easier to shift the blame to Indians and so called cheaper cost. Any screw up occur by Middle Management, blame the brown guys the problem. In the long run its going to screw the brownies from the US.

          1. That doesn’t comport with reality. Management never blames the Hindus, because by extension that blames them for bringing them on board. I’ve never, not once, seen a Hindu held accountable for bad work, in fact, you can’t even bring up their highly sub-par skills at all, ever.
             And to top it off these people have this *huge* superiority complex that is off putting.

          2. It comes from their culture. Many are from the Shudras caste and are attempting to subordinate you as they were subordinated in India. Best way to deal with this is to adopt English mannerisms when they are around. You should always speak directly at them and never treat them as equals.
             That shit will stop in under a week and you will have gained a bitch. Think of yourself as the viceroy of them

          3. Right, I actually figured out the Imperial English thing pretty quickly, and given my family, is not hard for me to pull off as it can come nearly naturally to me once I shift into that gear. I still loath their pretense though.

          4. That’s pretty interesting. I’ll keep that in mind.

          5. I made comment on an assumption based on that article I read, my limited experience, and assuming management is not intune with reality. My comment reminds me that false narrative that Indian are intelligent and capable workers.
             The success of previous generation of Indian coming to the US has
             created false belief that Indian are super capable and know what they
             are doing Before the flood of H1B visas, you have to be the cream of the crop of your chosen field to get into the US on visa. In today’s environment, you can pick up any Tom, DIck, or Harry from the numerous technical colleges with variety of skill.

          6. I’m in Canada and about a decade ago I worked in a call center supporting the repair centers for a line of printers. The American company we were indirectly working for had off-shored all their call support, but in two places: Canada and India. Canadian minimum wage support is functionally the same as American. At least the tech probably owns and uses a computer.
             I frequently had encounters with the India call center. My god. They couldn’t do anything. They certainly didn’t know anything about the product. I’d think they didn’t know how to use a computer if not for their uncanny ability to steal solved cases for their metrics. (Redirect the customer to Canadian support, mute the mic, stay on the line, keep the case open on their PC then mark it solved before you could.)
             I could have handled it if not for the constant reminders from management that India’s support was “every bit as capable as ours.”

          7. It’s funny, but I kind of stumbled onto this.
             I treated Indians like I treat human beings at a previous job and they backstabbed me as “weak”. So at my present position, I didn’t give them ammunition to talk behind my back but I didn’t help them either. So if they mumbled to me to help them do their job, I’d say I didn’t understand and be obtuse and they’d leave me alone and try to find some other sucker to help them.
             And they seemed to love me for it. I was behaving like an upper caste Indian or British Imperial.

       3. I’ve had HR double the engineering department overnight without any mention to the working engineers. One day I went to work and there were 30 people standing around like it was the first day of elementary school. Of the 30, 4 were able to do the work. Had two others that circumvented their responsibilities to get things checked by someone who knows what they are doing. They had actually designed components which would have failed catastrophically. They are never going to work in engineering again. The rest are either gone or under the yoke at this point

       4. This is so true. I work with countless companies as a consultant that have “off shored” their tech support. The only thing that I can tell you with any degree of certainty is that the people now doing the work are universally HORRIBLE at it. And yes, their English is terrible, which I can deal with if the skills are there. Problem is, the skills simply aren’t there.
          So, I spend a lot of time (and make a lot of money) bringing these operations back “in house”. Simple fact of the matter, if you’re a big company, off shoring your tech to Tata is NOT going to end well. The “savings” aren’t typically there and the level of service is dramatically lower than you’d get from a good onshore firm.

    2. Worked for a vicious America-hating Indian. Completely worthless. All kinds of degrees and certifications (U.S., believe it or not), but I did his work while he went to meetings and traveled. No ethics as we understand the word. Total racist douche. Treated me like dirt, but I couldn’t get another job to save my life–there is savage prejudice against white male vets.
       Finally escaped him after a realignment, so he had to start doing his own work. That pissed him off, so he brutalized me every chance he got. The area manager was a spineless beta fink white guy who once helped the Indian punish me for something they told me they knew I didn’tdo –but the weekly counseling was”good training.”
       I was ecstatic when I got laid off. My health didn’t recover for a year. Took 3+years to get a new job. That company? BIG outfit. Went under, bought out. Female CEO.

12. HR is basically a form of toxic socialization – allowing the inferior into positions they don’t deserve
    Even the people who make up HR are mostly people with worthless backgrounds, doing a job that hardly requires an entire department
    It’s kinda like the corporate equivalent of a Walmart greeter

13. What is funny are the people protesting to get paid $15 an hour for warming up food and poking at pictures. I guess basic economics is not taught in SJW school.
    I for one would rather poke the pictures myself, swipe my own card, and not have any human hands involved in the preparation.

14. I realize this is RoK, so HR has to take an obligatory beating, but the author doesn’t realize (or it doesn’t fit his narrative?) that it’s not HR that’s ruining science, tech and engineering jobs for American men (and maybe a few American women, too) it’s H-1B’s being shipped in from South Asia, and willing to work for peanuts, that are making life miserable for sci/tech* grads in the USA.
    *Hate the term STEM

    1. I hate the term STEM as well. The H1Bs are more of an issue in computer science and IT with some gains in chemical engineering. The issue is they learn everything using a rote method. This does not work at all in the design industry.

    2. Yeah, I didn’t know what to call it other than STEM. I wrote the article from a production engineering perspective, but wanted to have it cover a wider scope.
       I’m a guest contributor here at RoK and I mainly write gun articles at the moment. I’m not paid, and the editor vets every article going through, and the opinions in this one are mine. I don’t have a narrative, although I do agree with your point of the visas being bad for us as well.

    3. No no no the Jewluminati has addressed this time in again.
       “Americans don’t have the math skillz”. That’s why companies have no choice but to import labor from the 3rd world. Only those who bathe, shit in and drink from the Ganges River are capable of programming a computer.

       1. Americans have the math skills to work at Goldman Sachs.

          1. Which as a person who has worked both sides of this divide can tell you requires considerable math skills. I had to not only be able to use Laplace transforms but derive new ones when I got into this end of the business.

          2. Yep. That’s my point. Anyone smart enough to be an engineer can have a more monetarily rewarding career in another field. One this society has decided deserves reward.

    4. “*Hate the term STEM”
       Oh that f’ing term needs to go the fuck away. And yes, it’s the H1B visas and the fundamental unwillingness to pay for talent that is most everywhere. This bullshit trying to recruit american kids into engineering and science fields. Why? Other areas of the economy will pay them much much more over the course of a career if they have the brains to be an engineer. Pay appropriate to the bottom line contribution and they won’t have trouble getting kids into the fields.

    5. Two myths about H1b’s: One is that they’re better than Americans and 2, they’re cheaper.
       Largely wrong on both counts.
       Sometimes H1B’s are paid slightly less, but the big reason why Indians are in such high demand is that… Indians who rise to the level of management are super racist and hire only Indians. Not all of them, of course, but in general a department with a few Indians winds up being managed by an Indian and in a few years, everyone is Indian with maybe a token white to blame for how awful things are run. Whenever a department is run entirely by Indians, nothing but total crap comes out of it like the Gange river.
       Indians bribe each other to get hired with a fake resume (even if they are related which is most of them.) With the bribes and nepotism, they charge just as much or more for shoddy work. HR loves them because white males are sub-human and an Indian is as good as a black male (or even black female) in hiring quotas. If an entire department is run by Indians, then it’s “diverse.” ALL Indian H1bs get married (even a fake marriage) and their wives get a fake resume/diploma and then bribe a manager to hire them in IT.

15. As a mechanical engineer I can attest to most of what the author has written. The push for diversity is downright dangerous in mechanical engineering positions. I’d advise the author to get your PE license and get the fuck out of the auto industry.

    1. It’s good advice. I need to check with the PE boards and see if my decade in automaking with some grad school is enough to cover the five years of “work under a PE” you need to do to be able to sit for the PE test.

       1. Works that way here in NJ. Except you have to take the FE (fundamentals of engineering) exam first. I took mine 20+ years ago and passed. Unfortunately, it expired after 10 years. I spent most of my 20s and 30s working in places that had no PEs on site. The one place that did.. well.. he quit two weeks after I was hired.
          Now I work in a place that has a bunch of PEs. I just loath the idea of having to retake the FE. I would have to re-learn a lot of math (the horror of Laplace transforms) that I haven’t used since leaving college.

16. One thing that wasn’t mentioned in the article is to keep yourself fit, dress well, and be able to socialize. Keeping yourself in shape not only makes you feel good, it gives you confidence and you’ll be able to get the approval from the female HR interviewer without even saying a word.
    You’ll also need to know your shit for the job you’re applying for, of course.

    1. This is huge. When I sit down with HR I am not thinking about her signing off on me, I am gaming her from minute one. As long as she wants to see me again, things will work out fine.

       1. Correct. This is the first obstacle to overcome. It really has nothing to do with what you know (which is sad, but that’s reality).

    2. Keep yourself fit, dress well, and be able to socialize…while your female peers do none of it and have dedicated feeders at home.

    3. Good point. Perhaps a followup article of how to present yourself and behave at work should be done in the future. My particular place of work involves some floor time, so I do steel boots, jeans, and a company collared shirt.

       1. Good point. One thing I would add is even though you’re not in an office environment, do keep your boots clean from dirt or mud, company shirt ironed and sharp, and jeans clean…always. It will make you stand above the rest. It shows discipline and confidence that you pay attention to the minute details. Don’t brag about it, but just do it. Others will notice and it shows leadership and you don’t care what others think.

17. You have to be good; average people won’t cut it. You have to prove you are worth more than those indians willing to do your job for 10 USD/hour. Mastering foreign languages, comm skills, sales and business understanding will put you ahead of the monkey coders pack.
    Try to blend and dress in a way similar to others around; do not express political, religion, game or feminist opinions. As for HR and women this is simple: only talk to them when necessary and when not just ‘hi’ and ‘good bye’ is more than enough. Trying to get authorized to work from home is good if environment gets too poisonous; I did and HR had to shut up because my client loves the work I do to them. Aiming to become independent someday and killing the middle man is something worth considering. If it happens that confrontation could not be avoided and HR is after your ass then get Vox Day’s book “SJW Always Lie” and be prepared to deal with them.

18. I loathe HR with white hot heat. My utter contempt for the department was part of the reason I had to leave the corporate asylums. After much soul searching I made a career change into an industry that cannot be off-shored and if a female wants to work next to me she must pass the same standards as everyone else (for now).
    I recommended to my younger male acquaintances and family members to give heavy consideration to the trade fields such as plumbing, welding, masonry. They don’t require college, or much of it, and many of the guys that got into those trades at a younger age end up with their own businesses later in life.
    There are web designers and IT techs that will be paying off college loans for decades while their trade oriented contemporaries will own a house and 2 trucks in the same time frame.
    Also consider that most of these white collar office workers have no idea how stuff works. So when their pipes break at 3 AM they will pay you anything to make it go away.

    1. I agree 100%. Don’t do yourself a disservice by racking up debt to get into a career you probably won’t be any good at. If you aren’t very strong in mathematics don’t go into engineering. If you can’t write complete sentences or speak properly, you aren’t going to be a lawyer. The analogy holds for most professional positions. If you have a buddy who is lying to themselves, reach out to them without bullshit. They will thank you later

       1. Yeah, but my GI Bill is paying for it, and I’m sociable. So for me no biggie. Will be doing trades anyways. LOL

          1. Trades are really desperate for non-illegal-immigrant help these days.

          2. Could not get hired. When I was trying.

          3. My best advice would be to seek out people in whatever trade you are leaning towards. The schools are often teaching to the lowest common denominator. Learn to do everything the “right” way and not just the bare minimum.
             I’d gladly pay double for a master tradesman that knows what the hell they are doing beyond a manual carrying apprentice

          4. Couldn’t get hired in trades? Come to Ohio, apparently we’re scavenging for any competent “native” types under the age of 40.

    2. I got an HR email today that reads, “with the approach of MLK day, our individual and collective work for social justice is certainly on our minds”. This in an email about upcoming “bias training”. I will be unavailable that day.

       1. They just changed our policy to give us MLK day as a holiday. No matter that the plant I am based at (I’m in a satellite office) is working MLK day. Oh well, I’ll take the holiday pay and the time and a half. Lose one vacation day, though.

       2. I always managed to “become ill” when sensitivity training and group building exercises were scheduled. Fucking corporate brainwashing.

       3. My company just instituted “sensitivity training” which I have to take sometime at the end of this month. If someone starts lecturing me about my “white privilege”, it will take a mighty effort on my part to not repeatedly punch that someone in the throat.

    3. So true. The fields you mention involve real work as opposed to nebulous b.s. work that is the norm in the corporations.

19. Honestly HR seems like it’s not a real job, despite the four years of college that they participate in.

    1. Those four years of college cannot be considered real education, either. It’s nothing but glorified kindergarten.

    2. At my undergrad, you flunked out of engineering school, and went to A&S. Once you flunked the sciences, you went to arts like sociology. Then, once you bombed that, you went to the College of Education. The bottom degree there is Human and Organizational Development, which is….an HR degree.

20. Human resources has, best I can tell, ruined most every job. Except their own, where we find them immune to being fired for being so utterly and pointlessly idiotic as they are.

21. In Eastern Europe companies are dying to find IT specialists. You can’t imagine how desperate they are. I’m constantly hearing about free courses. And even then the government is trying to introduce gender quotas. I heard about a company that was seeking a female programmer, because the rule said there has to be one female programmer. Guess what – there weren’t any women willing to work that. They can’t even find enough men to work that.
    Many people leave the field, seeing it’s not worth the effort (we know what Roosh’s education is). What if some of them were meant to make great scientific discoveries that would change human history? We can never know for sure.
    So have the confidence to tell all those cock-sucking bitches and faggots to fuck off, if you must. All those bureaucratic job positions produce nothing. We don’t need them, they need us.

    1. Curious, if you have an American with good language skills show up, or who can catch up on the language quickly, who has top shelf senior level American programming skills (.NET [C#, VB, ASP], C++, Java, Objective C, etc), how easy is it to a) get a work permit and then b) emigrate from the States and apply for citizenship? Thinking places like Polan, Czech Republic, Russia, etc.

       1. Good luck with catching up on polish quickly.

          1. I was a linguist in the military and have some relevant background that others may not in this area.

       2. With those qualifications anyone could easily find a very well-paid job for the local standards. Just to give you a better perspective, when I was attending a Java programming course one of the lecturers (who was very, very familiar with that stuff) told me: “In most fields there are, say, 4 workers contesting for a job position. In our field there are 4 job positions contesting for a worker.” After that he proceeded to tell me about a 30 year-old programming enthusiast with no background in the field (he majored in something entirely different). He acquired some basic knowledge in home, then applied for the job. They hired him and the lecturer explained how quickly that man advanced. So someone who has never done that before got hired, I think everybody with some experience can get hired.
          About the work permits and the citizenship, I have only indirect observations (I live in Bulgaria). Firstly, if, by some chance, you have a dual American-British citizenship, that will help a lot. As for countries outside of the EU, one of my friends is from Ukraine. Third year here as a student, still no citizenship. He said he is “in process of obtaining”. The information I found says that every candidate has to live here for 5 before having the right to apply for a citizenship. He has no apparent problems finding a job though, even with jobs that don’t require a specific education, like a waiter. The last time we talked about that, he told me that he worked a job with SQL.
          Many people who want to obtain an EU citizenship choose Romania or Bulgaria. The rumor says those are the easiest countries to obtain citizenship in the EU (so it shouldn’t be as difficult as it looks like). But those countries are very poor economically.The lecturer also told me that the salary of most programmers compared to the local standard of living are amongst the highest in the world (if not the highest) but still, if I was an American, I wouldn’t pick them, unless I was a retiree maybe.
          Here are some links with more information:
          http://bulgaria.angloinfo.com/moving/residency/residence-permits/
          http://bulgaria.angloinfo.com/working/work-permits/
          I’m not entirely sure about it’s accuracy though. Theory and practice are different things.
          So it looks like it won’t get easier than that. But still, it would be better if you asked the local embassy of the country in question for more information.
          And one more thing to keep in mind is that most (if not all) Slavic languages are not that easy to learn.

22. My workplace has actually outsourced the racial guilt element of HR. There’s this “diversity consultant” who dresses like a pimp and shows up at the office for quarterly meetings with management. His main concern is the hiring and treatment of Black employees(never Hispanic, Asian, et al) of course. He assures us that we’re not racist and sends up a hefty bill for his time.
    The inmates really are running the asylum these days.

23. What firm only allows HR people to interview candidates for technical positions? This never happens; you will usually be pre-screened by HR then interviewed by the person who will be your supervisor manager. I’m calling bullshit.

    1. My specific situation is that I was hired into a engineer training program for new college grads ten years ago. HR hired us, then we went for two years of training, and were placed in our final assignments without any more interviews. As for which firm, chances are you drive one of our products.

       1. Chances are your general engineering skills are eroding and your growth has all been very one company/system oriented. Diversify if this is the case. I’ve had friends get into that rut at GM and Chrysler.

          1. Those type of jobs don’t involve innovation or development. They are script following jobs. They have a technical requirement that requires you make auto cad drawing edits and program the robots and list the hardware requirements. the floor technicians that actually produce the product or set up the machine tools are actually better at finding solutions.

          2. Somebody is doing the designing… I respect the men on the floor but there is no chance they could walk into a mechanical engineering position and be successful without formal training. The tasks you describe fall under industrial engineering which is a suspect discipline at best. Jobs with automakers and their parts industry tend to be dumping grounds for low-talent low-esteem engineers.

    2. Not accurate. Even if the eventual supervisor says “Hire them!” the HR supervisor can claim they don’t have enough diversity.
       Happened to me at one job. I even knew the HR director. Went to school together. She did not like me then. I was told I would not get the job. Not sure if it was her, or the supervisor.

    3. It’s not bullshit my last promotion as a mechanic was an all HR affair with no questions involving being a mechanic. It was a bizarre process that was simply amazing. It felt like an interview for a dating service. I already had been working there for 9 years so technical ability was a nonissue.

    4. Had an HR woman announce that security was going to remove me for “fraud”–the idiot didn’t recognize a common certification in the industry she worked in, that appeared on my resume. As I was counting my money from the upcoming defamation lawsuit, she stormed back in and growled that I could stay. Someone musta set her straight. So close…

24. This article can’t be right. After all, the Jewluminati has addressed this time in again.
    “Americans don’t have the math skillz”. That’s why companies have no choice but to import labor from the 3rd world. Only those who bathe, shit in and drink from the Ganges River are capable of programming a computer.

25. All the engineering innovation is by men. the ‘staff engineers’ they figure can be women since it’s a less important role of following drafting instructions and whatnot.
    kind of like a ‘staff accountant’ job. it’s almost like a fancier assembly line type job that’s less important so they figure they can fill it with women.
    this is ignoring the societal cost of having a bunch of unsatisfied women who can’t find a husband who makes more than them. these women end up (rightfully) miserable.

26. BTW this is one of the advantages of small businesses and self employment.
    No HR. No performance reviews, personality tests, and other assorted bullshit.
    if you think you want to work for a large, well-known corporation, the HR you’ll have to put up with is getting worse every year.

27. Too much white nationalism in this article. As a minority myself, I can tell you from first hand experience, that HR and affirmative action excludes men of all skin colors, not just white.
    HR is a cancer to the employment sector and I believe, is responsible for the displacement of men in the employment sector. When I scored FULL MARKS on all my aptitude tests, face to face interviews done to an excellent standard, I was still rejected only to find out that the positions which I applied for, were given to women (white and ethnic.)
    Without a doubt, HR is a affirmative action drive to hire more women and replace meritocracy. It is the reason why men cannot find work and are driving to commit suicide and become stay at home husbands. But that being said, karma is a bitch- what goes around comes back around.
    The corporate world is falling apart and the economy is about to crash yet again. Millions of layoffs and redundancies (including HR and managment) are happening and I will enjoy every second of it. Forget HR, but the very fact that men are still working in the corporate sector means you should expect the worst: diversity training, HR, sexual harassment lawsuits, office politics, office gossip, office drama etc.
    Fuck that shit. I would rather run a small business and make just about enough money to live a good life, rather that stay in that hell environment known as corporate America. Good riddance. Learn to be self sustainable, understand that life is short and live your own life. Fuck the corporate world.

    1. Good response. Nothing wrong with nationalism of any kind though.

    2. women think they’re going to rise up the corporate ladder and make the big money, but like you said the economy is sliding off a cliff. companies are slashing and cutting back. stocks have been tanking, etc… it’s not the 80s and 90s anymore.
       Their assumptions about society are based on the success of USA 1950-1990s. well shit changes.

       1. Women will never rise up if their numbers are too high. The corporation was built and maintained by men. The women and diversity types don’t have skin in the game and see no obligation to maintain the corporation all they see is titles power and compensation. They want nothing to do or have the slightest concern about keeping the lights on. The more women you have the weaker the host becomes.

    3. bravo

    4. Yup, black men are only slightly higher on the totem pole than white men in large corporations and probably below in small companies at least in my experience.
       BTW – a bit of nationalism is a good thing.

    5. I respect what you’re saying but black men are kind of like “white knights” (pardon the pun) in politics. Even as feminists and the Democratic party hates men, black men often vote Democrat because they think that affirmative action will guarantee them “front of the bus” treatment with white males in the back.
       That’s what you get when you “collaborate” with the enemy.
       Black women are notoriously awful towards their men. Black men tell me this and heck, we all see it. They’re at the endgame of feminism and more black men are in jail now than the height of Jim Crow.
       So why is this conservative white men’s fault that black men (as an electorate) sold out to reverse racism and feminism and got underfoot?

    6. As a third generation Mexican-American, I agree that it is indeed more of a problem of gynocentric attitudes and policy. If you are a “minority” male, you will still have to deal with gynocentric b.s. It seems to have really intensified within the 15-20 years.

28. Prepare to laugh your ass off. In countries like Bangladesh, there are job descriptions like this and they work well:
    https://www.everjobs.com.bd/en/employer/fast-group/software-engineer-oracle.html
    Here is a brief description of a STEM JOB. I have posted the link above:
    Position Requirements
    Educational Requirements:
    Graduate in Computer Science.
    Software Engineering or a related subject.
    Educational Qualification may be relaxed for experienced and highly skilled candidates.
    Experience Requirements: 1 to 2 years. The applicants should have
    experience in the following areas: Database Engineer/Database
    Programmer, IT System Management, Programmer/Software Engineer,
    Manufacturing (FMCG).
    Additional Job Requirements:
    Age 25 to 35 years.
    Only males are allowed to apply.
    Knowledge on PHP.
    Network & Good communication skills.

    1. Right the hell on!

    2. One of my wife’s earlier employers required her to take an IQ test (not in the USA of course). She was hired in part based on the fact the test indicated she would be a fast learner (she was!).

    3. That’s ok.. Bangladeshi women can work in garment factories, where they earn $2 per day making “I need feminism” t-shirts. Jokes aside, think of how many wanted ads in Western universities specify “no males/no whites”.

29. Be very wary of #4. Although it’s difficult for them to fire you, you can be “downsized”, and as the non-token non-Diversity employee it’ll be your face in the crosshairs. Also, I don’t need to mention to dangers of false harrassment charges.
    Also be very wary of what you do on social media. If you’re a red-piller and frequent site like this one, it’ll count as a huge red flag to prospective employers. Remember, the fat HR chick does not care about the difference between PUA, MGTOW, MRA, or whatever.. you’re just “unhirable”.

    1. any man has got to get rid of all social media. no facebook, twitter, or anything. it’s all bullshit to collect data. I don’t see how any man can like that shit

       1. It’s not that we like it but they’re tools to use to stay informed and communicate.

       2. You’re on social media right now, Steve.. and I hope that’s a fake name 😉

          1. If his name realy is Steve, and he looks like a roman Emperor, then he’s fucked.
             I have multiple email addresses. The one I use for official government stuff and employers links to a nearly blank facebook page, and a resume on LinkdIn, and I use it for nothing else but employers and government crap.
             Learn to lie to nosey parkers on the internet. Make up a birthdate and an address or phone number.

    2. The fat chick is very scent sensitive. Please don’t wear cologne or perfume. Of course this NEVER applies to the smell of food.

    3. Do they check your disqus account? I’m a 12th grader planning on entering STEM, and I’m not sure how well they can keep track of me.

       1. As long as you don’t have any personally identifiable info in your profile (name, email, etc) you should be fine. Have separate social media accounts for different things, i.e. one for manosphere browsing, one for school/college, etc. Don’t make a habit of revealing your location, school, etc in your posts, and don’t accept friend/circle requests from people you don’t know well. A determined hacker can always get your info (just like a determined thief can break into the most secure house), the trick is to remain under the radar so you don’t draw attention to yourself. As a rule feminists/SJWs are stupid but vindictive.

          1. Thanks! I do have my email here, but I’ll probably get a different one when I’m older.
             As for feminists/SJWs, you’re on point!
             However, I keep my account private. Does this help?

30. Lots of great tips, although I got to get hired first.

31. Example:

32. It’s been bad for a long time and its going to get worse.
    Companies view engineers not as unique individual talent that can come together and make a complex product but as fungible human resources. It’s been that way for my entire career and isn’t changing any time soon.
    When people are viewed as fungible human resources it is very destructive for the profession and being promoted on merit. They see engineering as a cost, not as where the product that makes the money comes from. So it doesn’t matter how much an engineer makes them, how many patents he earns that the company gets. It doesn’t matter because they see it as a cost, not a profit center.
    Anyway… yes companies want to make numbers and that lets in a lot of incompetent people under the fungible thinking. But I’ve seen men and women just as incompetent. They knew how to get good grades in school so they became engineers but they have no talent, no knack for it. I’ve known women with the knack (yes I borrowed that from Dilbert), but they are fairly rare.
    Anyway the idea is to get engineers in every way but the best way, Higher salaries and advancement. That’s why there are commercials on TV and other nonsense to get kids into engineering fields. Start paying the way finance jobs do, and they’ll have more kids going into engineering than they can deal with just like wall street does. But see the corporate boards will never find it in their cold dark hearts to pay an engineer even a fraction of one percent of the money he made the company. In finance, banking, wall street, etc they’ll do that for professional’s bonus. If he made the company 20 million dollars he’ll get a six figure bonus or something. An engineer? Well maybe he gets to keep his job.
    I’ve got my stories but the real problem is this society doesn’t value engineering and it hasn’t since 1969. Everything else is just a symptom of that core problem. From the H1B visas to making numbers by having enough women. Nobody complains (or if some do they aren’t taken seriously) there aren’t enough women playing in the NFL. Why? Because americans value professional football.

    1. Funny stories about the H1b’s. Management at Freddie Mac proposed to replace the aging mainframe being run by white males (a double negative there: old hardware and old white guys) with a new Java based infrastructure. Better yet, have it built by non-whites (indians) on the cheap! Heck, for management signing off, it’s like that scene in Robocop where the executive is snorting coke off of a model’s tits.
       The numbers: The project was supposed to cost about 40 million or so total to replace a mainframe that cost about 5 million or so annually (something like that). The amortization rate came out reasonable so it was signed off. About 5000 applications needed to be ported.
       TATA consulting negotiated lots of “gotchas” in the contract to get overtime money and penalties at the expense of Freddie Mac. It was so bad, that it appeared that management signing off had to get kickbacks for such a bad deal. The “expert” programmers barely knew how to use a web browser much less program in Java. In the end, the $100K consultants (probably paid a tenth of that), produced… _5_ working applications out of the total of 5000 promised.
       Management, of course, signed this off as a “success”, threw a party for themselves to celebrate, and then quietly killed the program but still outsourced the mainframe to another chopshop. They NEVER admit when a program fails. Bad for the stock price (at a half dollar or so by then, but still…)
       So how did the company survive? Bailout, baby. Target also had a CEO/CTO that prided themselves on getting all IT in their shop to India. Until everyone’s (including my wife’s credit card) info was stolen by Russian hackers. The CEO/CTO at least got fired (with a half million or so reward for their incompetence.) It makes the Ukrainian oligarchy seem comparable. Blagojavech went to prison for such shenanigans.

       1. Sounds like SOP for government work with a few new outsourcing tricks. Freddie’s separation from government was never actually real.
          Blago went to prison because people who could put him there didn’t like him. It’s all selectively enforced.

       2. Ah, you were victim of the primary rule of consulting work: “Create more consulting work.”

33. After this article, put your hand up, those who still deny that America is turning in to a third world shit hole ???

34. In a past life while I was getting my PhD, I interviewed in several EE departments at several colleges. One guy had enough balls to tell me – privately (he had balls, but he wasn’t stupid!) – that even though my research was a perfect fit for their department’s focus, there was no way I was going to get the job. He joked that the ideal candidate was a black female with a surname of Gomez or Sanchez who was disabled due to military service. Being a lesbian on top of all that would have been bonus points. Even 26 years ago, they were ticking off diversity boxes, regardless of qualifications.
    That was in academia in 1988. It’s only gotten worse since then as they’ve spread their toxic bilge out of the classroom and into corporations nationwide..

    1. This sums it up quite neatly:
       http://patriotupdate.com/democrats-to-the-white-working-class-we-hate-you-please-vote-for-us/

35. I was with you with most of what you say,but your implication that non white men are also the problem is bull. I rarely see Latino men in these pussy positions.If anything I’ve at least one or two white guys in h&r offices dominated by mostly lazy entitled black and Latina women.
    It’s never a good idea to alienate non white men, whether blatantly,or passive aggressively,when I thought the purpose of this site is to unite ALL men,not just wasp men.
    Whatever changes you hope to accomplish,the race baiting, white nation shit will ensure that nothing will get done.
    Cut back on the only wasp men are victims mentality,cause you’ve become a parody of the very people you complain about.
    In other words quit your bitching.

    1. Your mileage may vary. In my experience, diversity at my company includes race, religion, gender, and whatever you want to call preference/identity/fetish as. I have heard the exact phrase “do you have a candidate that is not white?” used when discussing whether or not they would award a position to the candidate that was deemed the best. HR discriminates on more fields than just gender.
       As far as I understand it, simply being a guest writer, the purpose of this site is to share information to help men. Not all men will like, or find useful, all articles. The intent is to provide real world experiences and actionable items and advice to the readership.
       It is unfortunate when opposition to a racist policy is, itself, viewed as racism.

       1. Luke, there is also age discrimination to go with it, particularly in Information Tech. As if those of us who wrote the frameworks that the kids are using have lost our ability to “keep up”. It’s still economic and diversity to a CEO appears as an opportunity to reduce salary.
          It’s still one of the bottom line accounting operations; reduce payroll.

          1. Good point. The scary thing is that, in our anti-harrassment training, we learn about ageism, sexism, racism, marital status, handicap, military experience, gender preference, religious, and pretty much any other sort of demographic discrimination there is. I call them protected demographics. We can’t discriminate against them, but the company sure can.

          2. More to the point? You can’t openly discriminate against them as it can result in a lawsuit. This is where terms such as “overqualified” or phrases such as “you would become bored with this position” come into play.

36. Best way to solve it? Automate them out of jobs. I’m studying Computer Engineering and plan to do my Masters in Computer Science. It will be possible in the future to essentially have all the paperwork jobs automated by AI so that there will be nothing left for women and minorities to parasite off of.

37. I run a small recruitment consultancy and was recently invited in for a diversity discussion by a FTSE 250 investment company. To summarise; we definitely want the best candidates but diversity is important to us and we should hire more women and have women on the shortlist but we want the best possible shortlist but we should have more women on the shortlists despite the fact that the industry is overwhelmingly male as women aren’t really interested in analysing company accounts for 15 hours a day.

38. HR should only be concerned with payroll and the paper work involved in hiring, not the hiring itself.

    1. amen

39. It is becoming increasingly difficult for talented,smart men to get into good,high paying tech jobs. The HR departments of most companies are headed by women and they are just making the hiring process a nightmare.Once you are in,you realize that you are paid same/less than a data entry clerk.As an engineer I’m being asked more behavioral questions than technical ones. It sucks.Part of the problem is because of sugar daddy managers who just want to sleep around. Only solution is to legalize prostitution.Seriously, workplaces would be more productive/less drama.

    1. Most men in the workplace are just a bunch of pathetic losers. A lot of men prefer to hire good looking young women, instead of a man that can do the job better. The men are responsible for putting those stupid women in that position.

40. I was chatting to a girl who was an engineering student last week and she explained how it was really easy to get a job because firms can’t find enough women to hire.
    It didn’t seem to bother her that she might be taking the job of a more qualified man or that no one would respect her for getting the job on her own merit.

    1. If I’m not mistaken, most entry level engineering work is a lot of following instructions, kind of like an accountant. so it’s not much consequence for them to stock the lower levels with affirmative action hires cause it doesn’t particularly matter.
       Senior engineers and scientists are the ones who pull the weight.

41. Go into a field where you can be self-employed. Skip ALL of this soul-destroying crap. Working for a large corporation is pure misery, and at the end nobody gives a crap about you and you own nothing when you leave.
    Start on your own when you are young and have lots of energy, don’t waste your life building someone else’s dream and legacy.

42. We had this happen on an implementation team, for a new software product. Women with no college education, not a single class beyond high school, were hired into system analyst positions, paying 70k/year. Meanwhile, many men, with bachelor degrees in computer science or information systems, were not even granted interviews.
    Pathetic.

43. I could write a book about time wasting HR idiots. The worst is being called for a “pre-screening” interview and the moron is an HR co-op students. Brain damaged specimens that should have been born in a toilet and then flushed.

44. The notion that starting early is better than working late is disappointing. Night owls have higher average IQs than do early risers.
    Basically, they’re discriminating against smart people.

    1. haha you have a link to your ‘night owls are smarter’ theory?
       sounds interesting

       1. I just found a bunch, but here’s one: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201005/why-night-owls-are-more-intelligent-morning-larks

       2. At this particular moment, no. I go through an absolutely insane amount of reading material so sometimes it’s difficult to document on demand.

45. As a 12th grade science fanatic, I’m going into STEM, and the infiltration of political correctness is something I don’t want going in much further. Hell, less of it than we seem to currently have would be even better!

46. If you want to get a job as a white male, you have to go through a pimp(agency) that takes a big cut. HR department are 100% female or persons of color. The don’t know anything about the actual needs of the company to get any work done. Hiring managers have to go through the pimps to hire any white males as contractors to get any real work done.
    The pimps are either women/minorities so the main corporation can claim they use minority owned business. Or they are Indians getting H1-B visa slaves to import more cheap labor and drive down wages.

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