The Importance Of Standing Your Ground

A recent experience last week and a thread over at the forum prompted this article.

In most aspects of life, the rules you set in the beginning of the interaction or relationship end up becoming the rules for the duration of it. If you are a boss and allow your employees to constantly come in late, guess what they will think that behavior is acceptable and it will be harder to retrain them later on. On the other hand, should you admonish them on their first late appearance, they are put on notice that this behavior is unacceptable. At that point they can choose to abide by your rules (maintain employment) or not (quit).

Of utmost importance is that you must hold your ground. To threaten and not follow through is a sign of weakness.

Women are no different. How you set the tone of the relationship is how it will likely proceed from then on. Note however this is not some trick for you to get what you want, but rather a mentality and a frame you should keep. Moreover, you have to be prepared for losing the girl. But here is the great part…in losing the girl you will be better off because you are not compromising on something that you do not want and do not enjoy. A few examples:

The Ukrainian Gamble

Last year I was living in Kiev and I met a rather attractive girl at some bar and went out with her a few times that week with no bang. My buddy and I were soon coming to the end of our time in Kiev. Our next destination was Odessa and we were in a gambling mood, so we thought we would tell this girl and one of her friends to come with us for a few days of partying and hopefully banging.

Now I was more than aware of the risks – these girls coming for just a free trip and us becoming sexless innkeepers. However, she had slept over before with some tit play and her friend stated she was interested in my buddy. Admittedly he was taking a bigger risk than me.

But to minimize our risk, I made certain to establish some things up front and stand my ground. So when the conversations escalated between my girl and I on how the logistics would work for a such a trip, they went a little like this (note – yes this is how I dumb down my English when communicating with foreign girls):

Her: Ok we come, we get two bedroom apartment and me and my friend sleep in one bed, and you and your friend sleep in the other bed.

Me: No.

Her: No? Why?

Me: If you want to come with us and stay with us, you sleep in my bed and your friend sleep in my friend’s bed. If not ok, get own place.

Her: (Angry and confused face). I don’t think so.

Me: Ok, get your own place and we can meet for dinner one night.

After a few minutes of her huffing and puffing, asking why and so on, she went and called her friend, they chatted in Ukrainian for a few minutes and she came back.

Her: Ok, but I cannot promise sex.

Me: Are you saying NO sex, or that you just cannot guarantee sex?

Her: I cannot guarantee it, we will see what happens.

Me: Ok, that’s fine.

We went on the trip, both of us banged on the first night and it was an absolutely awesome few days. Nothing but sex, them cooking and cleaning for us, and they even paid for the first night and transportation there since we couldn’t figure out how to do it. In the end, we actually saved money by having them along.

There is no doubt in my mind that had I not stood my ground and held the line with regards to them sleeping in our beds, there would have been a much less chance for sex. I set the rules and was not willing to move from it.  And had they not agreed? I still would have been better off. There would be no point in sharing an apartment with girls that were sleeping in separate beds.

Delusional Demand Girl

The above demonstrates holding your ground and you get the girl in the end. But as I mentioned, this is not always the case.

I met a girl a few months ago. Typical American girl that was delusional as to her self worth, but cute, great body and incredibly rich. Nonetheless my investment was minimal as we would just meet for sex and the occasional drink out.

Last week she texted me to ask if I wanted to come to some party and when she told me the location of the apartment I said yes because, well, it’s one of those areas that only the truly rich can afford. I’m never one to turn down an opportunity to further integrate myself into social circles like this.

I arrive and the place is stacked with talent, free drinks and catered food. I try to get my buddy over because I fully believe in Banging it Forward, but he is on a date. I stick around, have a few drinks and we head back with the girl to my place.

Upon arrival, she refuses to have sex stating that “all we do is have sex.” Well no shit. At that point I was tired and just fine with passing out, but then she continued on:

Her: The next few times we hang out, we are not having sex.

Me: (Laugh loudly)

Her: What are you laughing at?

Me: No.

Her: No what?

Me: I have zero interest in you if we are not having sex.

Her: What! Are you saying you only want me for sex??

Me: No, I’m cool with hanging out too but not if there is no sex. Like I said, I have zero interest in you if we are not having sex.

She got off the bed, grabbed her stuff and left. Happily I went to bed. She texted me the next morning asking how I could be so rude and that she was incredibly pissed off, and to not throw out her bra that she left behind. I never responded. Did I lose the girl? Probably… But I’d rather lose her then go out with her on a nonsexual basis, even once. At this point in my life and given her value to me, this was my preferred outcome.

Do Not Listen To Others’ Characterization Of Your Actions

She (or whatever third party) may claim that you are an asshole, that you are selfish, that you are giving an ultimatum etc. As to the first two things, congrats yes you are. Be selfish and be an asshole—it is your life and if you do not want to tolerate something, then don’t. Same thing with the supposed ultimatum—you are just stating your rules and she has the option to comply or not. If not, no harm.

Here’s one of my favorite things to say if this comes up. Tell her that “there are plenty of guys that are ok with seeing you and not having sex. I’m not one of them.” Then encourage her to go have sex with other men.

Your Ground Is Completely Subjective

There is no person other than yourself who can decide where to draw the line, and what ground to stand upon. Had the above example been another girl in my rotation, I maybe would have been fine with a few nonsexual dates. Perhaps the girl was enjoyable to be around whereas this one was not, or perhaps she was bisexual and there is added value to sticking out a boring date or two.

The point is that your ground is your ground. It can change based on the girl, or based on your situation. If you are having sex with 10 different girls and one of them wants to just go to a museum with you, sure why not maybe you would go. If you have a large work deadline and just want to bang one out, your tune may be different.

Since sex is a big part of all of our lives, we can conclude by speaking about sex again. If the first time she denies you sex and you protest but then give in, it will become a practice. She knows you will break and she will use it as a manipulative tool in the future.

To borrow my fellow ROK writer’s response to the thread above (credit: Tuthmosis), if she denies you sex and you tell her something along these lines:

She may walk. Or she may stay realize that she will never see you again and rescind her demand. Either way, if you have actually decided upon that line in the sand you want to take, then no matter her decision you will be better off.

Read Next: How Male Dominance Creates Better Sex

103 thoughts on “The Importance Of Standing Your Ground”

  1. That gif made my day! There is no better feeling in the world than putting a haughty, pretentious cunt in her place by telling her to fuck off.
    This is how you humble them. We need women off their extremely high horses if we seek to diminish or mitigate their power over us.
    Excellent article.

    1. I have zero interest in American women. The only ones worth engaging with (meaning they actually care what they look like) are so self absorbed they are a complete nightmare to deal with. Why go through that when places like EE have tons and tons of women who look like models, have excellent taste, know how to keep a home nicely, expect a man to ACT LIKE ONE…. half the battle doesnt even have to be fought. Been married to one for 10 years now… and loving it!

  2. The no-sex thing is such a transparent power play.
    1) Voluntary relationship exists.
    Person A is giving X to Person B
    Person B is giving Y to Person A
    2) Person B suggests that at next interaction, NO Y will be given, but they will expect X.
    How do women honestly think that is supposed to go?

    1. I have been in this situation in more than one occasion, and in my experience the girl will always have sex with you even though she says in advance that she won’t. She just wants to be told that she has some value beyond being a fuckbuddy. Once reassured, sex is on again.

  3. The biggest mistake men make while dealing with women is assuming that women are rational adults.
    They are not.
    Women are children. Big children. If you want to have success in relationships with women, here is the greatest mantra –
    Think of women as children. When you see women as children, you will completely understand how to handle them. Their behaviour would be precisely that of an overgrown child, and you’ll always know the right thing to do.
    One of man’s worst mistakes, and one he makes over and over again, is to assume that woman is his equal, that is, a human being of equal mental and emotional capacity – Esther Vilar (A woman) – The Manipulated Man
    Women are suited to being the nurses and teachers of our earliest childhood precisely because they themselves are childish, silly and short-sighted, in 2 words – big children. – Arthur Schopenhauer

    1. I think it’s best not only keep his spine, but to detach himself. Detach himself from women in general.Don’t let reality slap you in the head. Just see how things are and detach. Become indifferent. You will find so much peace and become much more confident in addition to being able to focus on more important things.
      I would say slap or spank a woman like you would a child but that will land you in jail. Sometimes I like to act like a troll (in person) just being a smartass rather than trying to debate or engage a woman. Putin was correct when he said its best not to argue with women. And speaking of Putin, in Russia men already behave like this. They are red pill.
      Sometimes i wonder if certain civilizations in the past (Japan, Rome, etc) along with forms of Islam already know this. Hence, why it is so strict

      1. Yes, debate is the worst thing a man can do with a woman – just make smartass remarks and don’t engage in real argument – even when you win an argument with a woman you actually lose because you appear to be bullying them (one of the many instances in which women don’t actually believe in “equality”).
        Go-to move: Fart noise then walk away. They lose their shit and it is funny as fuck. If you can fart on command that would be even better.

        1. I actually farted in a woman’s face recently. It was so disrespectful and funny… but talk about not putting them on a pedestal!

        2. Haha, I hope she deserved it. I’m not saying go fart on women for no reason but if she is getting aggressive with you it isn’t like you are gonna hit her or something, you know? Self-defense without the criminal charges (hopefully – I have heard of men getting some kind of charge for farting on women… seriously).

        3. Nah, she really didn’t. It was just about playfully reminding her of her place in the pecking order.

        4. I have been farting on women since my first babysitter when I was 3 or 4. Convinced her to let me ride on her shoulders then let one rip Texas Flatulence Massacre style. My mom and I laugh about it to this day, damned near 4 decades later. She thought I was a little rascal, personally I felt it was the move of a child prodigy!

        5. Haha you don’t need a reason just a sick sense of humor. I love farting on young women in Asia on the crowded trains and subways. You can drop a nuclear blast and they won’t even move. Cracks me up every time! Asian airplanes are excellent for this as well. Attention passengers, a Caucasian passenger has clogged the toilet.

      2. sexist bullshit.
        Detach from arguments and debates in general – sometimes we are banging our heads against brickwalls, I feel like I might be doing that here, but one must try for the evolution of our fraternal consciousness.
        Stop being sexist, and accept that we have problems with people we share things alike with, but don’t accept about ourselves.
        You act like a troll because you know you cannot win, so you act like a child instead to piss them off.

        1. Calling me a sexist and a child eh? Such a stupid thing to say. Stupid because you are drawing conjectures based off a single comment.
          “Detach from arguments and debates in general”
          I already do this
          “sometimes we are banging our heads against brickwalls, I feel like I
          might be doing that here, but one must try for the evolution of our
          fraternal consciousness.”
          Yes you are banging your head against the wall for preaching to a man you do not know.
          “You act like a troll because you know you cannot win, so you act like a child instead to piss them off.”
          No. I act like a troll due to all of the illogical arguments thrown my way combined with the inability to actually listen to what I have to say.

    2. Things that will never happen to omega pyjama boys:

      Ok I’ll translate this for you boys. She finally gets Travolta to shag her and he asks her if she using birth control. When she says no he stops and says well just give me a bj then. His friends come along and he says ok just forget it lol

    3. The way a lot of men act nowadays could be described as childish. It drives me crazy. I can’t even talk to them like adults because of their feminist conditioning.
      Regardless, your point still stands

    4. Women are more suited as nurse and teachers because they act like big children? That doesn’t even make any sense. What is the correlation?
      How are men who whine for paragraphs like a bitch about not getting pussy and being oppressed by women not like children?
      To be fair, I am a man and I admit to being more childish than the average woman because if I was your childhood teacher I would have unzipped my pants and pissed on you in front of class.

    5. I draw similar comparisons to dogs as well (then again, dogs have the same mindset as young children)!

  4. A nice article! I had a great (non-sexual) stand this last weekend, and it made my day.
    I was at a bar playing pool with a group of friends and acquaintances, when one of them, a real communist know-it-all cunt started to question me about my most recent book. I didn’t feel like entertaining her or explaining things, so when she asked what it was about, I replied as derisively as I could, “You wouldn’t understand.” I knew this would drive her berserk, because she fancies herself as an intellectual (she has a Ph.D. in psychology that she flaunts every six minutes), and boy did it ever. I provoked this for no other reason than to alleviate my own boredom.
    She went into shock at my dismissal, and she got in my face and repeated her questions in an attempt to back me down, but I held my ground, and even ratcheted up the tension. It was quite amusing for me. “So, I wouldn’t understand it?” she said. “That’s right, you wouldn’t understand it,” I replied, stone cold and without a trace of a smile. “You know that I have a Ph.D. right? So, you’re telling me that anyone with less than or equal to a Ph.D. wouldn’t understand your book?” “That’s not what I said. I said that ‘you’ wouldn’t understand it… and that credentials matter not,” I replied. She was furious. She pointed to another woman in our group (a drunk dolt of highest order) and asked if she might understand it. I replied, “Yes, she probably would.” I thought this woman was going to snap and punch me, but I was prepared to block her feeble fist and break her wrist if she tried. Oh man, was she pissed. She was my doubles partner at the time, but refused to keep playing… so I took her turn and won the game of course. My friend in the group came over to see what I had said to provoke her, and it was all quite satisfying. All the people in our vacinity noticed that I was the target of this woman’s rage, and I think a tall blond was impressed from across the room.
    So yeah, I fully endorse standing one’s ground. I have to say, my interchange was silly and really without solid purpose, but it felt good. She got in my face and was fully intent on making me back down, but I was not having that sort of thing.
    My latest book, btw: BAR POOL

    1. You should have told her the title after she made a big scene like that, she would have looked like a jackass in front of her friends.

    2. “You know that I have a Ph.D. right?
      This applies to so many things. Many idiots think that having a degree makes them an expert in what they are talking about. It does not.

      1. Not even close. In fact, this would make a good Youtube channel.. PhD’s doing stupid shit. Believe me, people with that Dr. in their name can be even dumber than everyone else, because many of them have an undeserved sense of mental superiority.

        1. They also fail to realize that learning is a continuous process. I don’t care how long you’ve been in school. It shouldn’t stop because you have a degree.

        2. They have focused on one very narrow and highly specialized area. It doesn’t mean they know much about anything else, even extending to parts of their area in which they have not specialized.

      2. People instead of actually actively using their academic qualifications to better themselves often use it as a conversation stopper/free passport to being called right and knowledgeable about everything.
        Wise people are humble. Fakers and credentialists are not

        1. Well said. My dad’s a professor, but he never brings up anything about his degree, and he’s very humble. He wins his arguments by pure reason and evidence, and gives no fucks about anyone’s pedigree.

    3. I doubt if you have a GED. Any moron can write some 50 page e-book. When you have a REAL publisher behind you with editors and all of the other things involved in writing a real book and you have to go out in person to promote that book then I’ll consider you a real writer. I didn’t say a good writer but at least someone who a publisher believed was good enough to invest money in and maybe make a profit from.It doesn’t matter if the publisher later puts a copyrighted book on Kindle.
      E-books are for poor no talent kids who believe they’re going to make some money. There are a million of these things.
      And Roosh, be honest, how many e-books have you sold. I doubt very many because you’re readers are all poor schmucks.When McQueer wrote an article he mentioned that he was homeless at one time but what was amazing were the number of commenters who also said they were.Roosh, if you want to make money you have to go where the money is. These pyjama boys barely get an allowance from their unwed mommy’s welfare cheque.And don’t call you books BANG either, it’s stupid and no one with any brains is going to want to let anyone else see them reading it. Call it a travel guide for the single man or something like that.Your audience will know it’s for them the same way something published by AARP is for geezers looking for travel discounts and ‘deals’.

      1. Just thought of a good title. Remember that film the Accidental Tourist which was also the name of the travel guides written by John Hurt in the film? Call yours The Accidental Pussy :o) J/K

      2. Criticize this guy all you want, but do you even have a book? Or a website? Or business? No? You don’t know what it’s like to be a writer or entrepreneur? Then piss off, loser.

        1. You must be a ‘tween or pimply teenager if you believe some e-book or a website (there are a million of them) means anything.It just means that he has a computer like a billion other people on earth.This guy is no entrepreneur or real writer. The guy who runs a hot dog wagon is more of a businessman than he.

  5. I think you screwed up w/ the Americunt. Since she was offering something of value to you besides her pussy (access to higher social circles), you should have recognized that and turned down the alpha a notch. Something like this
    Her: The next few times we hang out, we are not having sex.
    You: (Laugh loudly)
    Her: What are you laughing at?
    You: No.
    Her: No what?
    You: You’re silly
    Her: I mean it, we’re taking a sex break
    You: Sounds good to me…we can keep it strictly blowjob
    Her: That’s not what I mean!
    You: Yeah whatever, lets go get tacos.
    This was a shit test, and you failed by going to nuclear on a high-value chick. Had you just laughed her off, she probably would have forgotten about the whole thing.

    1. I think you may have a point but in my experience women get tired of only being wanted around for sex pretty quickly. It’s pretty obvious to them if you hang out for 2 to 4 hours and always attempt to have sex.

      1. Flip the script. If a woman doesn’t want to only be wanted for sex, she needs to bring something else to the table. And the sex should still always be on the table. You fulfill each others’ desires in some way or don’t waste time.

      2. They do huh? Personally I haven’t found that. No disrespect but you may want to examine your approach my man.
        “I’m not a monster… I’m just ahead of the curve”.

      3. Then you do what I do. Don’t make it just about sex, but make it clear that sex is part of the deal. I’m a man. I like having sex. It’s important to me. I don’t do 8th grade style dating.

    2. You have a good point. It comes down to a decision.
      1) Do you let yourself be talked to in that way, and just humor her enough to keep the relationship as-is? You’ll deal with her “tantrums” by simply holding frame, but letting her vent. You’ll likely never stop having to deal with her saying things like this if this is how things go.
      2) Do you not let yourself be talked to in such a manner? After all, she’s insulting your intelligence by suggesting that sex is somehow no longer a valid part of the voluntary relationship. So by holding a strong frame up front and directly telling her that it was non-negotiable, so get out… she gets a very very clear message.
      Either option works, but I think the latter option is better overall because it is in line with abudance mentality, not scarcity.

      1. Maybe, I just think he went to far. They were coming back from a party w/ free booze, so they were both most likely pretty drunk. When women drink, their filter goes down and they say dumb shit, especially with rich entitled women like this one.
        He should have just shrugged it off as drunken idiocy and went to sleep. In the morning he should have tried to initiate sex and plow through any token resistance. If she was not willing, he could have just called her a cab.

    3. Whilst I agree with you that she held value we don’t know whether or not his networking was fruitful in getting to that society. Also by sheer numbers game alone the probability is he can get back into a similar circle again. The time that will take we can’t predict without knowing his current social standing.

  6. Curbing my desire to pick-up & bang everything that moved no doubt added years to my life. Once I took the one thing that women had over me (my once insatiable lust for pussy) off the table, I reclaimed a power I didn’t realized I missed.

      1. It’s like they say; the more personal something is, the more universal it is.
        We’re in this fight together my man, good things.

    1. You can hold your ground when it finally hits you that women are NOT the fair sex. You find them beautiful because you’ve been told so.
      Arthur Schopenhauer said it:
      It is only the man whose intellect is clouded by his sexual instinct that could give that stunted, narrow-shouldered, broad-hipped, and short-legged race the name of the fair sex; for the entire beauty of the sex is based on this instinct.
      And Esther Vilar said it too:
      Aesthetic standards are necessarily subjective and each aesthetic judgment one makes is an act of personal choice. But subjectivity easily turns into an excuse, and man is only too pleased to allow himself to become a slave. A man assumes that, since woman adorns herself with the obvious intention of drawing all eyes toward her, she must have some reason for her action. So man finds woman beautiful because she thinks she is beautiful. Indeed, he is very grateful for being allowed to share this opinion.
      Man, unlike woman, is beautiful, because man, unlike woman, is a thinking creature.

        1. The Manipulated Man.
          A book which more or less covers everything you need to know about women.

        2. Thanks man, will be checking it out!
          edit:had no idea it was written by a women, am skeptical but will still check it out.

      1. That was the perfect reply, well done chief.
        Call me crazy, but I feel like some real healing is going on here.
        Props to a Dogger for the thought provoking post.

  7. The behavior displayed in this article is pure alpha. Unfortunately the vast majority of guys that “think” they are alpha are nothing more than pussy worshippers.

    1. Women crave passion. When they see any man evoke passion from any woman, regardless of what kind of interaction it is, they will desire to experience it. It is because of this that men who get a reputation among women are usually the men the women are most curious about. The simple fact that passion was aroused in one woman, means the man is capable of doing it for them.

  8. I think I read the Ukrainian story on the forum but it was gaily called “the ukrainian gambit” and it sounded like it was written while you were sucking someone off. Queerest damn story ever.
    This format is more palatable.

    1. Actually I think it was aphelion who wrote that shit. Law Logger, you’re legitimus maximus

  9. I find women respect you more if you stand your ground. Most of the time its just a test to see what you are made of. I am a fairly easy going guy so most little things are negotiable, I am not a complete dictator who rules with an iron fist. However, when I draw the line in the sand she damn well knows im serious and wont back down come hell or high water.
    Case in point, I had a job offer several years ago to work overseas for a few months, being only 22 at the time I accepted. She went ballistic and said it was stay home or it was done. I calmly said , “Its only a few months, I am going wether you support me or not. If you want to leave that is your choice, but its not going to change my decision.” She backed down not 8 hours after I told her that.
    Few years later same thing happens where I have to move. once again I stated I was going and after a brief temper tantrum she was packing her bags right alongside me.
    She likes to be led, (I think all women do) When they throw temper tantrums and try to make you angry she is just trying to see what kind of man you are. If you back down I think they lose respect for you and we all know what happens after that happens.
    A man is only as good as his word. That statement is of the utmost importance with women. You lose that and its game over.
    Just my two cents.

    1. “A man is only as good as his word”
      If you make a stand and then back down, she’ll walk all over you next time you try to make a stand. To be able to be in control of yourself and the relationship you can’t be afraid to lose her. That much is true from the first approach to the married couple.

    2. Of course. If you’ll let a woman walk all over you you’ll certainly let another male walk all over both of you. Women know this, even if it’s just instinctively.

  10. With women, children, and dogs, absolute consistency is the rule… They can not be trained without consisistency, and inconsistency is simply cruel.

  11. The fact that the American gal “accidentally” left her bra behind shows that you played your cards right. No woman accidentally leaves anything as intimate as her bra in a place, unless she is silently requesting re-entry into that place at a later date.
    If you would have been an effeminate beta male, I guarantee that she would have packed up that bra ASAP, never to be seen again.

    1. If he was an effeminate beta, the bra never would have come off in the first place.
      À bientôt,

    2. No because the beta male would have caved and agreed to not having sex with her.
      It was a power play on her part. At some point she began to fear/think/believe that she couldn’t control you and pulled out the weapon they always use… Sex. She dropped what she thought was the trump card assuming you’d cave like every other guy before her had. You didnt it pissed her off, she threatened to leave and you didnt stop her….

  12. SPOT ON Law Dogger. You set the tone, the rules of the relationship. You go with what is good for you. Stand your ground. If you draw a line in the sand and then cross it, you lose! At that point you are toast…’re a man with balls of oatmeal, not balls of steel. Be true yourself and good things will follow.

  13. Happened to me one night. I called a cab for her and went drinking with my cousins. Next week she came back for a facial. TRUE STORY!

    1. I had a similar instance with a girl I was seeing at the time getting all emotional in a nightclub. She said I didn’t treat her right and all that bullshit. I gave her cab money home and went walking home by myself. She spent the cab money getting to my place.

  14. I told the exact same thing to a girl last week but I couldn’t hear her reply through the PVC.

  15. While I agree with the article, I must say that a fellow should be more careful over what he says to a woman. These days saying something like “if there’s no sex GTFO” is taken as “rape” of sorts – or at least that’s the word she’s going to use when she calls the cops and files a false charge on you. I would just let her go, be silent, and then pretend she fell off the earth. It’s easy that way. If we are going to be up front as described in the article, then do it ONLY with your own surveillance! I would LOVE to catch a filthy rich girl filing a false rape charge on me that I can prove with video evidence was false and then after that, take her to court. I’d be set for life.

    1. Wait, so it’s rape now if you *don’t* have sex? This is getting surreal.

      1. What the Herr Doktor is referring to sometimes comes up on college campuses and other irrational places where saying something like “Look, we’re either going to bang or we’re not, but if we’re not, then I’m going to go bang Heather, who is DTF”, is ‘coercion’, so if the girl to whom this is directed relents, well, she must have done it b/c you ‘forced’ her by threatening to bail and go bang a chick who’s down.
        This is crazy, of course, but I don’t write the news, I just report it.
        À bientôt,

  16. Superb article.
    This is precisely the game I use to fuck Russian, Ukrainian and Filipina girls.
    It’s called asshole game.
    It’s real, women will absolutely not give you sex, UNLESS YOU TAKE IT.
    And to take it, you have to stand your ground. I don’t waste my time on women who waste my time. Russian and Ukrainian women are very similar – AND WILL WASTE YOUR TIME AND RESOURCES, if you start pedestalizing them for their beauty.
    So be an asshole and stand your ground. Get her to provide sexual favors for you. She may curse you, but in the end you got what you wanted. That’s all what counts. And don’t think too much, once she’s let you inside her, a Russian or Ukrainian girl will inevitably let you inside her – again, and again, and again….
    This game is the ONLY WAY to use with them.

  17. Russian/Ukrainian bitches are transactional bitches. Gaming them to have sex with them is like trying to win your house from your divorced American wife, without losing it to her in a messy divorce settlement.
    Thus, you must act tough and tell them what you want – sex. Even it appears crass.
    Russian and Ukrainian women are the world leaders in stringing men along when it comes to sex. Don’t ever let them do that to you.

  18. Conquer your own thirst, know that you can do without sex. Master your own desires.

  19. Everyone knows all Russian/Ukrainian girls are prostitutes.
    And as with prostitutes, you must negotiate/state your terms with them, before even doing something with them. A lot of readers here might be thinking these girls are the docile, care-taking, marrying types who will provide sex on demand for you. No they won’t, even more than American girls. Everything with a Russian or Ukrainian girl is a transaction. Her time with you, her ’emotions’ and ‘sex’ with you are all transactions. Understand that. So you must stand your ground to get the sex from these creatures. Never invest feelings for these chicks. But make sure to get the sex from them. And since there are so many beautiful russian chicks, rinse and repeat after you’ve fucked them.

  20. I have transformed. I used to ask women out, try to be polite, socially acceptable, etc, etc. The hope that she likes me and I give her “the feeling”, and somehow something would happen, blah, blah, blah.
    I’m sure I’m not the only one. But I discovered something I would like to share.
    I changed my approach.
    Now, if I want to ask a woman out, I do the following.
    “hey, (insert anything here) is coming to town, you like them right?”
    (You should try to find some common thing that appeals to many, like an craft fair, live music, whatever. it doesn’t really matter, as long as it fills a void. A) It’s a happenening event, in your town. B) It may be a place where you’ll run into others, so women can talk about it later. C) it should interest her. Don’t choose the annual Farm Trade show, over live music where alcohol is served)
    ” I love ( whatever), I thought you would too. We should go out there and hang out.” (so at this point, you’ve kind of asked her out, but also premeditated that she WILL go, so if she denies you fine, but that almost never happens.)
    “The band is great, I heard, we can have some drinks and have fun”
    (Technically, I guess you have actually asked her out, but it’s in such an innocous, friend like way, it’s rarely denied)
    Most women will say yes. If you’re a dude that can string together a few words into some type of intelligent sentence, have a good job, can chew your food without drooling and don’t have a rep as a drunken fool, most women will date you. That’s not the issue.
    I remember a scene from Glenn Gary Glenn Ross; (great movie, btw)
    ABC= always be closing.
    Here’s the kicker, after she agrees, you slip this statement in;
    “cool, it should be fun, the show ends around 10, so we can go back to my place and fool around”. NOTHING MORE. Don’t say “have sex”, don’t say “Make out”, say fool around.
    Why? There are many reason, all probably steeped in how womens minds work, so I’ll pass on that. Because it works.
    “fool around” is a pretty general term, it could be widely interpreted, but it lays the ground work. You have said in a casual way, that you want her.
    You haven’t promised your class ring or lettermans jacket or made ANY promise of ANYTHING beyond Date night. But the wierd thing is, it seems to lay down a challenge to women.
    I had a gal semi-challenge me recently, by saying “Fool around?” What do you mean by that?”
    I responded with a wry smile, kind of mockingly, “I just meant that if we went go to my place, you might understand me a little more, if I show you my bottlecap collection”.
    It was the first time any woman had actually responded that way. Most just smile and you can (literally) see the gears turning in their head. Typically, they’ll bring an overnight bag, lingerie, whatever, because you’ve planted the idea in their head , that the date isn’t over when the show ends, it’s when you bust your nut.
    So this girl challenged me, and it was the first time. I figure OK, 7 wins, 1 loss thats not too bad. But I wanted to go see the show and I did take her, even though she didn’t really give me a positive response to that statement.
    So after the show, I started back to her place (which was the opposite direction from my house) She said, “Hey where are you going?”
    I looked at her and said, “I’m taking you home, the date’s over” (all the while thinking to myself, It’s still early enough, I can go to the bar and get a little toasted)
    She said, “I though you wanted to go to your place?”
    I replied, “I wanted to go to the show and thought you’re enjoy going with me. I like you and thought you might like getting to know me more, so it seemed like a natural thing to say. You never responded back, so I figured you just weren’t it me. And while I’m disapointed that there isn’t some mutual attraction, I’m not mad. I still like you and it was a good show, so ,……………..”
    She had a confused look on her face and immediately went into apology mode.
    You see, it was true, I was going to drop her off and go to the bar. I was being honest, but it swayed her.
    We did go back to my place and she proceded to impress me with her “value”.
    My takeaway, was how “off track”, I have been for most of my adult life.
    I now don’t have an issue , stating my intentions. I try to do it tactfully, or in an offhand way, but the message should be clear.
    If I pay for your social outing, you must give up the goods.
    No alternative. No other option. Give it up.
    It works for me. Not saying all will need it, but give it a try. Just be polite and still firm. I seem to do better when I clearly state my intent.
    And if there not interested, you know immediately.

    1. But you didn’t state your intent clearly? You asked her to visit your place to “fool around” which you admitted was vague? Which is it?

  21. Saying to women flat out that you will only see them if there is sex involved is a big mistake in my opinion. Most women need to feel that they have at least a shred of deniability as far as sex is involved. She needs to be able to say to herself that it “just happened”, or else she is a slut. And being a slut is the biggest fear of all women. If you invite her over to “watch a movie” you both know that you are going to have sex, but the vast majority of girls will still respond better to that than an invitiation to come over to suck your dick. Women are simply not logical creatures.

  22. Her: The next few times we hang out, we are not having sex.
    Me: (Laugh loudly)
    Her: What are you laughing at?
    Me: No.
    Her: No what?
    Me: You`re not getting any money.

  23. The story about the Ukrainian girls is good, but I’m not so sure about the second one. It’s good to stand by your principles, but sometimes it’s worth making the more intelligent move.
    There’s a difference between complying to her demands and coming to a reasonable agreement. Saying ‘ok fine,’ would be a poor answer, but saying ‘I agree. This is getting kind of ridiculous,’ allows you to go along with it on your own terms. You won’t lose her respect if it’s clear that you’re not bothered by it. The no sex thing would have gone on for maybe a week at the most, and after that you still have the girl.
    More importantly though, you mentioned that she was wealthy and got you in to a high value social circle. The social connections you could have made through her would have been more valuable than the sex you could have had with her (or anyone else really). The connections you make while you’re young will define your entire life. It’s always worth staying a few steps ahead and seeing the bigger picture, and I think you handled her proposal poorly.

  24. This was a supremely interesting article. I think holding the frame works better with women who are from traditional cultures but they will still shit test if and wherever they can.
    Most western women are so entitled they often break rather than bend to a strong man, but I can see by setting clear your intentions you filter hours of bullshit and drama, I respect that

  25. OHHH SHIT AHNB you are a totaly pig brother – total pig. “women are children” – listen to yourself you stone age motherfucker, even stone age dudes would have had more respect for smart ferocious women than you. YOU are the child, who sees women as emotional creatures and men as rational creatures – we all contain both emotional intuition and rationale and analytical skills, what an ignoramus!
    OP – dude seriously, you also are a pig speaking of a woman not having value to you other than sex. I bet you blow your load every time too, not realizing you are literally pissing your life away. Sexual energy is creative energy – obviously this woman who is delusional saw something that you could not because she is smarter than you. Unfortunately she was also naive.
    This poster is unfortunately someone I would not wanna hang out as a bro with because he seems to only think with his dick.

  26. The problem with is approach is that you are selecting for women without principle. If you just want to get laid, fine, get sluts without self respect who bow to the “asshole” technique.
    I am at an age where I am looking for mother of my future sons. I have no interest in allowing women with bad character into my life. If she responds to the “asshole” technique, I automatically lose all respect for her. That is a Woman without character. A woman raised by strong parents on strong principles is not going to have sex with you just because you pull a trick.
    But I am at a different phase in life.

    1. The woman you’re looking for does not exist. You are simply looking for an excuse to enslave yourself.

      1. I would rather wait for the rare woman of principle and character to raise my sons. Then allow one of these easy sluts to touch my future children.

    2. It’s not being an asshole, it’s Being Firm, but when a princess Doesn’t Get Her Way, then you get called “ASSHOLE!”, hence the derogatory moniker.
      From an evolutionary biology perspective, a woman will shit-test a man to see if he will stand up to her, b/c if he can’t stand up to a woman, how will he be able to protect her and any future offspring from potential enemies?
      Sure, every so often you find a woman on whom logic* will be the best course, but when you find one that you can actually reason with–e.g. one who is intelligent and had four brothers or something and had to learn to live in a masculine environment–that only illustrates how rare that is.
      À bientôt,
      *Often derided as a Coercive Tool of the Oppressive Patriarchy *roll eyes*

  27. Situation #1 is usually a straight out Shit Test. “Are you a Man? Or are you a pussy who is going to going to let me push you around?” The only thing I’d have changed in that conversation is Law Dogger’s last line:
    Her: I cannot guarantee it, we will see what happens.
    Me: I can guarantee it, because [Heavy Russian Accent] there are plenty of devushkas in Odessa who like to make the fuck sex. [/Heavy Russian Accent]
    Translation: “I see your shit test, Yulia, and it’s Not Gonna Work.”
    Situation #2 is a form of ASD. When something like this happens, it’s b/c she’s got some Fat, Opinionated, No Man Having Bitch Friend who is running you down. Why? B/C Her Friends = Your Enemies, all too often. Women hate seeing their friends being happily boned when they ain’t gettin’ none, and Interfering With Other People’s Relationships is the Female National Sport.
    À bientôt,

  28. No offense here, but Russian or Soviet women are all manipulative and cunning whores and sluts. They slut it around more than American women, but they are not dumb like American women to do it openly and crassly. Russian men, on the other hand, make loyal friends and worthy comrades.
    Russian women have a strange mentality. Within Russia, they often act like prudes with foreigners. Once they get out of Russia, the whore hamster in them comes to life. In Russian, most of the time, their whore hamster is usually suppressed involuntarily (due to the patriarchal nature of the society there) or voluntarily (to fool foreign men into believing that these women are marriage material).
    Russian women are not afraid to slut it around (inspite of being bred in a non-feminist society which ironically supports prostitution), which just shows the possible horrors of dealing with such women if they were ever afforded the rights of feminism. They would easily win by a mile over their American slutty sisters in manipulation, evilness and whoring if they were afforded the same rights as American women enjoy today. These women are not dumb as American women, and overestimate themselves on their intelligence- which they use to manipulate and enchant men, using a toxic dose of their beauty. A lot of stupid Anglo men get ripped off by Russian women, because Anglo men are born pussy worshippers and manginas. Any sexy woman with an ass and a little homely skills is immediately elevated to the position of an ideal ‘Goddess’. A man’s sexual fetish is often the cause of his own undoing, and this does not exclude the fetish with Russian women. They are not Goddesses or sex kittens as you would believe.
    This is the fucking problem with American men today. They are just plain fucking stupid and retarded when it comes to rationality when it comes to women, sexual discretion and self-control. The blame is not on them though; the blame is on the fucked up American gyno-centric society which teaches American men to live a life of female worship. If American men have been fucked by shitty American women, they seek wives from even worse manipulative Russian women who are even worse in the loyalty and mind game department.
    This Russian invasion of America will begin through ‘sexy’ Russian women. And Russia will achieve through its women on America, what it couldn’t achieve through nuclear weapons or propaganda during the Cold War. And what is sad to see is American men, instead of doing something to fight back against the evils in American society, are willing to submit to the sexy docile coy Russian opponent, who precisely know the weakness of American men: beautiful pussy. Russia is a shit hole when it comes to American standards. And American men will never get total acceptance in Russian society. But an American man’s fetish for Russian bitches will blind him to these realities. No wonder Russian men are alpha, they don’t care a shit for their bitches.
    RoK should remain as Return of Kings, and not ‘Russian Obsessed Klutzes’.
    10 years from now, if RoK still exists, I wonder whether the context of articles would feature “Why Russian girls suck”, “Why Russian girls are bitches”, and all Russian women bashing articles (which would be actually true) , much like how RoK justifiably bashes American women today. Let’s not lead innocent stupid lambs of American men to slaughter (who think more with their dicks than their brains), instead educate them on how to obtain pleasure with these manipulative whores, and yet avoid being destroyed by them. If American women are dangerous, Russian women are pure EVIL wolves-masked in sheep’s clothing.

  29. Agree totally women are big children, which is why they love dictators because they are like adults

  30. One of the things women respect men for, is for men to hold and retain frame. If she pulls a shit test just say “That shit doesn’t work on me doll, I’m not one of your beta orbiters” and leave.

    1. She’ll have no idea what “beta orbiter” means, but otherwise, yeah, that’s about right. I’d rephrase as “That shit doesn’t work on me doll, I’m not one of your pussywhipped “friend zone” guys”. Keep it simple and in terms she’ll grasp. “Beta orbiter” is hard vernacular particular to the manosphere.

  31. I’ve always found one thing to be true…men win in reality, women win in fantasy. You can only let a girl beat you If you yourself are weak. Stay strong men the big child that is women can’t win unless you let them.

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