The Ugly Divorce Between The Alt Right And The Alt Lite

The end of the year is usually a quiet time for news, but it wasn’t quiet for some of Donald Trump’s most ardent supporters. The political movement known as the Alt Right saw a giant rift open over some important ideological questions. The fracture resulted in two different camps: the Alt Right and the Alt Lite with the latter carrying most of the big name internet celebrities. Given that the Alt Right played such a big role in the election of Donald Trump, how does the split figure into the future of politics?

The DeploraBall—Ground Zero of the split


The split started due to a disagreement between the organizers of the DeploraBall, a party for Trump supporters to celebrate his victory. The organizers of DeploraBall are some of the best known names on social media, including Mike Cernovich, Gavin McInnes, Jack Posobiec, and Bill Mitchell. One of the other organizers, who goes by the Twitter handle “Baked Alaska” had apparently started tweeting about Jewish control of the media.

Prior to this, Baked Alaska’s tweets had been pretty mainstream Trumpian—build the wall, deport illegals, and bring back jobs. But with his foray into the Jewish Question (JQ), the question of whether Jews as a group sometimes act against the interests of their host societies, Baked Alaska was treading outside standard Trump policy. Apparently, it also provoked the DeploraBall organizers because he was called out on it by Cernovich. Baked Alaska posted the following private conversation with Mike on his Twitter account:


Baked Alaska obviously decided not to stop talking about the JQ because shortly after that, his name was removed from DeploraBall. Baked Alaska went public with what happened. With that, the battle lines were drawn. The Alt Right was divided into roughly two camps. There was the camp that sided with Cernovich that espoused mainstream Trumpian civic nationalism. This camp, now known as the Alt Lite, included most of the big name Trump supporters: Milo Yiannopolous, Cernovich, and Paul Joseph Watson. The other camp is the traditional Alt Right which viewed the ousting of Baked Alaska as a betrayal.


The dust up quickly became a conflagration when Bill Mitchell, the highly popular host of the pro-Trump radio show “Your Voice,” went on the offensive against the Alt Right calling them racists, anti-Semites, and Nazis. Mitchell even went so far as to threaten a fellow Trump-supporter that he would notify her boss that she was associating with “Neo-Nazis” simply because she followed people on Twitter who were critical of Mitchell.

The split between the Alt Right and the Alt Lite was planned


As dramatic as this plot is, it only gets more convoluted. The DeploraBall was not solely planned by Trump-supporting internet personalities like Cernovich and Baked Alaska—the chief organizer is Jeff Giesea, a long-time Peter Thiel associate and start-up veteran. A Buzzfeed article on Giesea describes his unique background:

Among the men’s rights alumni, opportunistic culture warriors, outright white nationalists, and self-made digital media impresarios who compose the leadership of the pro-Trump internet, Jeff Giesea is unique. First, he’s not public: He hardly tweets, he doesn’t have his own video channel, and he doesn’t pick fights online. Second, while much of the pro-Trump internet lambastes out-of-touch, Ivy League–educated city dwellers, Giesea is a gay Stanford graduate who lives in Washington, DC. He is precisely what people mean when they talk about the coastal elite.

Reading between the lines, Giesea was the agent who helped turn the DeploraBall from an Alt Right event (named after Hillary’s basket of deplorables) into a big tent event that emphasized Trump’s civic nationalism. This makes sense when you consider Giesea’s own position: “I’m gay, why would I support a movement that wants to turn me into a lampshade?”

Thus, the clash with the Alt Right appears deliberate. It was only a matter of time before the Alt Right was “purged” from the mainstream Trump movement. It just happened very conveniently that the unpleasant task of firing Baked Alaska fell to Cernovich, who up until then was a very popular Alt Right figure. Did Giesea orchestrate the rift? I don’t know, but if he did my hat is off to him. He is clearly a master of the 48 Laws of Power.

My take: We can’t move backwards


What are we to make of the split between the Alt Right and the Alt Lite? First, we have to continue to fight for the victory both groups achieved in the election of Donald Trump. If Trump is able to accomplish half of what he has promised, he will be the greatest president of modern times. But Trump’s agenda will face heavy opposition from the Democrats and cuckservative Republicans, both of whom are beholden to big money interests. For example, Trump promised to replace Obamacare, yet the Republican leadership is already dragging its feet. We are going to need everyone to put their elected representatives under pressure to hew to Trump’s mandate. In this regard, at least, the Alt Right and Alt Lite are allies, not enemies.

The bigger issue is what we are going to do going forward. Trump’s civic nationalism is now the new right. It is natural for the civic nationalists to want to define the boundaries of their new movement but it is unwise to do this by calling people to the right racists. After all, Trump’s platform is still deemed to be racist by the Democrats and establishment Republicans. When Trump called for deporting illegals, the establishment rose in unison to express their outrage. And when Trump called to stop immigration from Islamic countries, Paul Ryan made a speech explicitly disavowing Trump’s proposal saying it was “not our values.” Up until November 9th, Trump was the person the establishment was trying to purge by calling him racist and misogynist.

One of the things the 2016 election revealed was that the real battle is not between small-government conservatives and big-government liberals, but between globalists and nationalists. Up until Trump’s run, it was the globalist elite that ran everything, including education, Hollywood, the media, and both political parties. I’ve gradually come to the conclusion that words like “racist,” “anti-Semite,” “misogynist,” homophobe,” “Nazi,” and “white supremacist” are terms the globalist elite has formulated over time to set the boundaries of what Americans (and Europeans) can discuss. Through their control of institutions, the elite have trained us to immediately reject a person who is branded as being an “ist” of some sort without considering whether his ideas hold any merit.

The genius of the Alt Right lies precisely in the realization that all of these terms are empty so they are able to discuss “forbidden” issues. For example, Richard Spencer’s ideal of an all-white ethnostate may seem farfetched in the US, but there is nothing wrong with recognizing that other ethnostates, such as Israel and Japan, exist. If they can have one, why can’t whites? Or why can’t they at least maintain a majority status? Similarly, a sovereign country has the right determine if it will allow immigration and, if it does, who will be allowed to immigrate. There is nothing inherently racist about questioning the Immigration Act that only came into being in 1965.

In other words, the Alt Right serves a valid function in moving the discussion forward. Ideally, the Alt Right will help shape the future Republican Party to ensure that it doesn’t fall back into mainstream cuckservatism after Trump’s presidency ends. We’ve only started to extricate ourselves from the thought-stopping terms of “racist” and “Nazi.” We can’t go backward and let the elite dictate what we can discuss when it comes to the health of our nation.


I expect the rocky relationship between the Alt Right and the Alt Lite to continue for the duration of Trump’s presidency but either group is better than the cuckservatives who used to run the show. One thing is certain: the genie that was unleashed during Trump’s run and the rise of the Alt Right is not going back in the bottle. The next few years are going to be exciting.

Read More: The Political Nature of Man

624 thoughts on “The Ugly Divorce Between The Alt Right And The Alt Lite”

  1. Alt-Lite sucks donkey dick!
    Alt-Right is a reactionary and masculine movement, it’s identity politics for straight, white, Christian males, and it is Anti-Semitic (aka. PRO-WHITE) by default.
    We take no prisoners and we are not hunting for likes. If you don’t like this, fuck off!

    1. But the Jews will never disappear. They will always be BAAAAAAAACCKK! Causing general annoyance and disarray in Goy society.

      1. I do not want Jews to go extinct (though I would not mind it), what I want is they should not have power over us, that instead of them, we should rule our countries. Let them all fuck off to Israel, or let them stay with a mouth shut.

    2. This is exactly the division they have sought. I sympathize with WN’s, I don’t like that whites are declining and I don’t see a future in any western white country at the moment- but at the same time, the alt-light have all of the big guns. Partially because in not naming the JQ, they have been able to appeal to a wider audience, to put up arguments that aren’t so quickly shut down by emotion.
      The movement splitting is bad for the end goals of nationalism and fighting progressivism. This is not a good direction.

      1. Yes, I understand your concern.
        However, it is only so far that for example people like Milo, or any Jewish people, are with us. Soon as the JQ comes up, they will side with the Tribe.
        Also, you can not enter the mainstream with Anti-Semitism today, but going mainstream more people can be reached. However the end-goal is a new mainstream, in which Anti-Semitism is default, and for that goal we have to get rid of the present mainstream altogether, because the present mainstream can only be used only so far.
        I do not think the break happened early. It happened after a great victory. Some people want to use this victory for themselves, but the rest of us got high on winning and want to repeat till we conquered the world. And it is not just an American thing, either: I am typing from Eastern Europe, never been to the USA, and I consider myself Alt-Right. And I hope you American straight white guys will think big, global, because white people are suffering everywhere under Cultural Marxist and Jewish power.

        1. That’s interesting. Anti-semitism has definitely been mainstream an many societies over the centuries, so it’s not inconceivable that it could happen in the west. That said- I side more with nationalism than WN, and I think that although Jews are disproportionately tribal to the detriment of their host countries- other groups are as well. There will always be various tribal identities within our countries, some not as recognizable as such.
          I think nationalism is an ideal to push- and any member of any group that steps out on us need to be viciously beaten back in to line.
          Either way- you and I are examples of people who can discuss this, and perhaps even work together towards similar goals, all without the drama that the Alt schism has seen.
          Although not as sexy, we should push this kind of unity and keep working together.

        2. I agree. For me, nationalism is the default setting. White Nationalism, or a Christian Renaissance for example, would be a basis to work together with people who are not members of my closest group, but with whom we share common interests, common culture, historical past, and religious or racial similarities.

    3. You realize semantic people fall under the same racial category as “whites” right?

      1. No I definitely don’t. They are of the Semitic race for me.
        But mind, I do not use the phrase “race” totally scientifically. Still, I am sure everybody is aware what I am on about.
        That is why if I want to express myself 100% clearly, I use the term “white people of Christian origin”.

        1. I am real. And Christians prefer the New Testament. The one written by Christians. For real.

  2. Here’s our unofficial troll anthem for ripping on cuckservatives and libtards. Sufficient for both the Alt-Right and Alt-Lite. Work together in shitlording 2017!

  3. Yes,the new political opposition should and must be able to discuss anything. Now they have the challenge of figuring out the *right thing.*
    Turning energy against anything other than the left at this time is the height of stupidity, short sightedness, vanity, and self-sabotage.

    1. Exactly. There are not nearly enough of us yet to start splintering off into various factions. It’s classic divide and conquer. And it started over an issue that is fundamental to why the alt-right exists – the JQ. Without questions on race, sex, and ethnicity, there is nothing left but cuckservativism.

    2. This happens to right-affiliated groups with depressing regularity.
      We saw it in the Tea Party (primarily when a PAC was formed and people like Ryan and Cruz got to power). We saw it with GamerGate to a limited degree (which was limited because GamerGate never became an identity and the “leaders” never merged into a faction).
      The Alt-Right can survive if and only if the foot soldier types deny and reject drama. The Left is full of people who privately hate the LGBT… nonsense, but they don’t say it publicly because they don’t shoot their allies and don’t let drama kill their progress (as a rule).
      I will not disavow anyone because my enemies tell me to. I will not disavow any tested allies because questionable allies tell me to. If I am not alone, we will continue to make progress toward Making America Great Again.

  4. No enemies to the right! Alt-lite and alt-right need to come together. There is nothing wrong with the JQ or asking for (at a minimum) a white super majority in the US. Very good article.

    1. I wasn’t even aware that there was a split. The fuck, I don’t recall attending any official meetings or participating in any kind of discussions, fuck, I didn’t even know that there was such a thing as the alt-light.
      Seems to me like the typical power grab by parties with more interest in the game than simply seeing the original desired outcome. In other words, some doofuses setting themselves up as “official representatives” who will then deign to censor “their own” and “be respectable”. For, of course, the new end goal of their own self enrichment and power. As always. Heh.

      1. Agreed. While ‘nazi’ and ‘racist’ have lost a lot of meaning, so too has ‘cuckservative’, which now means ‘any non-liberal who doesnt agree with me 100%’
        Not once before Trump got the nomination did Roosh declare red pill Trump skeptics ‘out of the manosphere’ and start banning RoK accounts.
        FFS, Jews control a lot of money and media. The only Jewish question I have is this: how to make the US as nationalist as Israel, where even their left-wing politicians are combat veterans (Ehud Barak)

        1. That’s a legit stance. Miscegenation is illegal in Israel, they have a massive border wall, they launch regular airstrikes on their neighbors, and they proudly claim their birthright to an apartheid ethno-state. Bully for them. We want that too, but in order to get it we first have to deal with the deleterious Jewish influence in the USA.

        2. Oh yeah they scream no enemies to the right but will figuratively flay you for being anything other than a Wotan worshipping Hitler fanboy. When they say “no enemies to the right” = “I can hit you you can’t hit back”.
          Sieg Fail, amirite?

        3. You are right. Generally speaking, if you are against SJWs/Feminism/Progressives I can get along with you politically. I even have a friend who is a bona fide Socialist who wants a universal basic income but hates the SJW’s, Feminists and safe spaces. And I’m a card-carrying, pro-capitalist Tory.

        4. No shit. Meanwhile our kids are learning about butt-sex in school and miscegenation every time they leave the house or turn on the TV.
          The JQ is unpalatable to the general public, but I wonder if that could ever change. It’s not about hate, it’s just about fairness.

      2. Nicely summed up. I wasn’t aware of the rift either. As I stated previously – no enemies to the right!
        I guess I consider myself in the middle between alt right and alt lite. I am also just a casual internet commenter with a regular job etc. I’m not an anti-Semite but I think the JQ is a good discussion. Generally speaking I am skeptical of Jews as well. People belonging to ethno-states tend to be happier and more harmonious countries/societies as well.
        Silencing or ousting any form of speech is counterproductive imo.

        1. Basically, either EVERYBODY is on the table to be dissected and criticized, or NOBODY is. The double standard that has been made for Jews has driven a lot of people to dig deeper and learn why exactly that is.

        2. First time I heard of any split was here as well, or the existence of something called the “Alt-lite”. Is that what’s written on the sign that’s going to be hanging on the entrance of the new cattle enclosure?

  5. The alt-right realized their political relevance when Hillary felt threatened enough to name and chastise them during one of her speeches.
    The only reason they got this public attention is because they chose not to water themselves down, and had the guts to tease and question the establishment openly.
    Anything less can come across as using the momentum of this political movement for personal gain or subversion. Those who put skin in the game and ask the difficult questions will be the most respected.

    1. The ability to ignore being called a racist or sexist, or respond with: “so what?” is what allowed any kind of movement to operate. To see the mainstream, alt-light, turn on the rest of the movement and use the exact same shaming is disturbing.

    2. I believe that alt-right comment was part of a strategy to demonize Trump supporters. Clinton or whoever put the bitch up to it were attempting to exploit the overlap between White nationalism and the Alt-right. She was specifically targeting Alex Jones – who never identified as alt right before – and Bannon.The public was supposed to link Alex Jones and Bannon with “raycist” and “white supremacist”
      It blew up in her face.

    3. “The alt-right realized their political relevance when Hillary felt threatened enough to name and chastise them during one of her speeches.”
      Bingo, also by calling them out and mentioning Breirbart as well, if I recall correctly, she drove traffic and voters sitting on the fence to the movment and the site. People were curious..
      Calling Trump suppoters “deplorables” two weeks later really sealled her fate IMO..
      To win an ellection you never totally dismiss or insult you’re opponents voters. This burns the possible bridges of on the fence or crossover voters…
      The Lizzard couldn’t help herself and now shes a dying cunt for the “trash bin of history.”
      Even if Trump turns out to be a total douche just watching Hillary go down in flames and snowflakes crying vids has been very satisfying!

  6. I’m glad Trump won because it is a setback to the feminazi agenda, but if you believe he is going to do much of what he claimed then you are naive. Politicians lie to get elected.

    1. You are the one who is naive. Trump has an entire life history of saying what he’s going to do, and then doing it. Yes, there will be plenty of obstructionists standing in his way, but he is a master negotiator. I believe that he will fulfill a much higher percentage of his campaign promises than any other President we’ve seen in our lifetimes.

      1. You can ease up on the cult of personality already. He got elected. Trump contradicts himself all the time and rarely takes firm positions on anything. Nor does he provide methods for how it will be accomplished. Also some things he claims he will accomplish aren’t within executive, or even governmental, powers.

    2. He doesn’t have to get much. He just needs to enforce immigration law, punish those that violate the law, and put originalists on the SCOTUS. Everything past that is icing on the cake.

      1. Yeah, I doubt he’ll do any of those things. He won’t enforce immigration law or put Constitutionalists on the SC because it won’t correspond to GOP wishes. He talks a good game about it because it appeals to voters.
        He won’t “drain the swamp” in the least. Plenty of his cabinet picks are Washington insiders. So thinking he’ll “punish those that violate the law” is laughable. Like I said, all he has to do is prevent further descent into the PC abyss and I’m satisfied.

        1. I predict you will be very wrong. He’s already trying to get the wall built this year (and I bet he deports record #s), he will appoint conservative judges and I bet we get corporate tax reform and if we’re lucky a 5-10% tariff on imports. That alone will make him the best president in 50+ years. The Media, GOPe and Neo-cons wouldn’t have fought him so much if they thought he wasn’t serious about it.

  7. “This is not a discussion by the way. This is an ultimatum. Handle your business.”
    LOL! Keyboard warrior is poised ready to launch an entire Division of virtual pain!
    Me: “Dude, seriously, go get laid or something. You take shit *way* too seriously lol”
    I may be wrong (seriously, I may well be), but isn’t Cernovic gay? Or am I thinking of somebody else (this might be the case, I’m not accusing him, I’m asking)?
    In any event, he sounds like an Internet Drama Queen and really seems to need to find himself a good blowjob, or at least progress emotionally past the 7th grade.

    1. Heh, I was thinking the same thing. In just going to sit back and enjoy the flame wars.

    2. Ding Ding Ding give that ghost a cigar. Jeez louise…people acting like they are at the continental congress when in reality they are just a bunch of people on the interwebs

    3. I don’t get the appeal of Cernovich, either. His stuff comes off to me as general marketing schemes, rather than anything else. He isn’t gay (you are probably thinking of Milo), and he does seem to have a legit, dedicated following. There is no doubt that he is filling a niche that loves him, but I guess I am just not part of that particular audience.

      1. No, I knew Milo. There’s some other dude who was all Captain Macho, all jacked out, shaved head I think, tats, the whole nine yards, who turned out to be a fag. I do not even vaguely remember his name, I just slipped Cernovic’s name into that memory slot, clearly accidentally.

        1. Yup. He is beloved of the Richard Spencer/NPI crowd. He explores the whole camaraderie of warriors fucking each other, among other things.
          Do with that little chestnut what you will.

        2. You’re thinking of Jack Donovan. But I’m not sure what you mean by “turned out to be a fag”; he was always a fag, openly talking about it in forums. In his books He advocates for a masculinity independent of what sex you’re attracted to (not that I agree with that, but he has interesting points on gangs, tribes and nationalism)

        3. Well perhaps it was only that me and my group only found out about it recently. I know quite a few names in the movement, but don’t read all of their stuff.

    4. He has a high-pitched voice and a lisp, but he’s not gay. Married with new baby. His main problem is his relentless quest for fame and mainstream acceptance.

      1. Thanks. I know very little about the man, other than what I’ve heard from others second hand. More or less “He used to write some decent articles, but the last year or so has become full of himself and seems to be angling for a commercial success with his books and little else”. I’d though I’d heard “gay” too but apparently I was mistaken on that, so thanks for the correction.

      2. I followed Cernovich on Twitter for a while, but I started to realize this guy was just trying to sell books when he approached an anti-Trump protestor, and the protestor lashed out emotionally at him and Cernovich said something along the lines of: “Did you see how this man lashed out at me, and how I held my composure? This is Gorilla Mindset©!”
        He also claimed to be a leader of the “alt-right” and then promptly abandoned it after Trump was elected, my guess is in order to appeal to more people …and sell more books.

    5. Cerno is a doppelganger for this backstabbing Judas I cut out of my life several years back. His face is very similar, as well as his voice. I was taken aback the first time I watched one of Cerno’s videos because he looked and sounded just like him. To put it plainly, it didn’t make a good first impression, so I’ve largely ignored Cerno’s stuff as a result. But from the sound of it, it seems like he now finds himself in quite the conundrum. I wouldn’t be shocked if he fully sells out in the next couple of years. Maybe he could take Megyn Kelly’s spot on Fox News.

    6. That’s what I fought too… It seems like an EXTREME overreaction and kind of like he HAD to do it. So somebody says something in a tweet, what the hell ?

  8. To think that this is some kind of damaging split is to fail to fully understand the alt-right and how it operates.
    In a way this is good. Let the left think the alt-right has been denounced and kicked out, and let the squeamish cuckservatives think this as well so they divert their efforts leftward, while the alt-right does what it does best: memetic warfare and culture jamming.
    And the autists as well will spend a lot of energy going nowhere with this, which is good. The snack-pack throwing autists will implode with this stuff without doing real damage. Funny thing is the autists have perfectly delivered on this ruse. They are like machines who don’t know they are machines.
    If there was “orchestration” going on, I don’t think there are dupes here. Trump is in charge, and Trump is a genius with this stuff. If Cernovich and associates were following any order, it came from the top. This split is all show. The left just lost their “Trump is alt-right Nazi!” boogey man.
    For once, on the right, there are men who are truly good at what they do, and this is a war of culture, information, memetic tactics, disinformation, and black propaganda. Good men are on the case and the leftist snowflake brigades don’t even know what hit them and are not going to get a chance to figure it out.
    Wild ride ahead. Stick to your guns, no retreat, no surrender. Never forget what is best in life:
    Crush the left.
    See the illegal aliens driven before you.
    Hear the lamentations of the SJWs.

    1. Trump with his twittering has in one fell swoop disenfranchised the JQ controlled media. They are saying “Its dangerous” ….yes, dangerous to their mindwarp control disinfo techniques! Good for Trump!

    2. Hell, 99% of what Alt-Right people do we do as individuals. We’ll join onto a hashtag if we feel like it, we’ll create a meme if we think it’s worth it, and we’ll shit on whoever we feel deserves it.
      As individuals.
      Alt-Right is leaderless in a way those trapped in the establishment can never comprehend.

    3. “Crush the left.
      See the illegal aliens driven before you.
      Hear the lamentations of the SJWs.” this is going on my grave

  9. The Alt-Lite is the Alt-Kike. The Alt Kike consists of (((Kike Cernovich))), (((Stefan Molyjew))), (((Kikeblow Jewcuckolous))) and (((Paul Jewseph Watson))).
    Jews are jewing.
    They use their typical tactic of subversion.
    Throw the Alt-Kike in the oven:

    1. Pretty much nailed it. Notice how every one of those turds depends on the internet to make their living, and they are wealthy. Simple formula = lie and cover up for the jews, and they will legitimize you and allow you to make money…until it’s time to sacrifice you.

    2. (((Roissy/Heartiste?)))
      I believe Jared Taylor is married to a Jewish woman…

  10. Cuckovich really screwed up big on this one. He’s going to learn that everything you do in life acts as a boomerang. He spent the last couple years viciously trolling people, being an arrogant dickhead, throwing all kinds of people under the bus, and pretending like he was the leading voice of the alt-right (while simultaneously trying to deny that he was associated with the alt-right).
    Now he has drawn the ire of a dedicated army of trolls who will follow him around and torment him for at least a year.
    He’s painted into a corner. He staked his reputation on the issue of free speech, but now he’ll be forced to constantly delete comments and ban people for trolling him.
    It’s been obvious for a long time that Cerno is trying to become famous in the mainstream and is willing to sacrifice anything (including truth) to get there. I’m glad he exposed himself for what he is.
    I know that I’m not welcome on sites like this because I dare to address the JQ, and that’s fine. This is NOT an alt-right site, and in my opinion it’s only purple pill, not red. But it is wise of the moderators not to ban people like me. Once you do that, you expose your double standard and you expose what you are truly afraid of. Then more people take notice.

      1. I know I won’t get banned unless I go really far, because Roosh is a pretty good man. But I don’t like hanging out in places where everyone dislikes me and my ideas get no traction.

        1. Whether true or not, hanging out with people who dislike you can be good for everyone.
          Echo chambers help no one.

        2. lame, dude. it’s a waste of time to try and persuade people who aren’t receptive to your views at all. I’d rather tackle more advanced questions with other minds that are in tune with what I believe. It’s more productive.

        3. That’s exactly something a black guy on a Stormfront forum would say. Except his accusations would probably hold shit tons more merit than the ones you are representing now.

        4. Never thought this would be the comment that people would pounce on.
          I was just saying that I found it to be more productive to discuss complex issues with people who share a common underlying foundation. Not that I like echo chambers, but I’ve been in this game for years and years, and it’s boring and tiresome trying to talk sense with noobs who haven’t done their homework.
          By contrast, on other sites I feel like I’m an idiot because all the other guys are so much smarter than me. That’s where I am able to grow my ideas.

        5. “it’s a waste of time to try and persuade people who aren’t receptive to your views at all.”
          I know what you mean. Don’t give up though man. I was once unreceptive to the uncomfortable truth even opposing it until someone like you got me thinking enough to research for myself. Without that I may never awakened to true redpill.
          Don’t let the shills and their multiple accounts/sycophants break or deter you. When they attack it just reaffirms to me that I must be doing something right for them to act so fearfully hostile. Don’t worry about forum cred either, leave that to egotists, ass kissers and cowards.
          I enjoy reading your take on shit that actually matters. Its rare to come across someone so aware and articulate on the JQ and brave enough to speak it.

        6. Thanks brotha, and I’ve always appreciated your comments as well. I used to be as blue pill as they come and some thought leaders in this movement helped me see clearly, so I do feel like I owe it to the next group coming into this to help explain what’s going on. I do need to always remember to stow the ego and let insults bounce off. Learning this stuff is a progression that takes years.
          It’s funny though, when I was coming up through the red-pill knowledge, I didn’t try to gainsay people all the time. I lurked a lot until I had a grasp on the ideas. I didn’t pipe up unless I had something important to add. I wish some of these younger fools would do the same ! haha

      2. I was mutilated and now am missing a lot of nerve endings…I chose NOT to do this to our son….(in the hospital they made it seem so NORMAL and ROUTINE to circumcise….we had to OPT OUT it seems!)…

        1. Thats because your hospitals are controlled by jew filth, why else would they push untested vaccines & useless pills & chemo on the public
          Jews hate the people they leech off, the fact is the jews are the real nazi’s
          The atrocities, the child mutilation & animal sacrifices they commit on a daily basis, is what makes jews an evil religion & an evil people, their evil religion is what makes the jews the real nazi’s
          Everything the jews falsely accused the innocent germans of, the jews committed a thousand times worse on the 60+millions of europeans & russians the jews butchered & genocided
          The jews are the real nazi’s, fact

      1. Thanks for that, but to clarify I was more referring to fellow commenters, many of whom profess to hate the alt-right or WNs (which I’m not really sure that I am ). I’ve always appreciated the loose mod hand here.

    1. Paul Watson is another alt-liter. He’s a good source for newly awakened blue pills but a massive cuck when it comes to calling out less mainstream issues (transgenders, Jewish influence, etc).

    2. I fought at the Battle of Stormfront when ROK was ambushed. I was the first to confront the leader of the army of “black lipstick clad” trolls before the ensuing fight. I littered the battlefield with the bodies of your brothers. We fought valiantly but we were outnumbered. I willingly took a bullet for one of our generals in the ensuing battle and was wounded. We were assaulted on many fronts and even ROKs leader was wounded from the barrage of volleys. We took many losses but managed to beat back the assault. I was banned shortly thereafter due to an internal dispute (which I won’t get into here now) so you may not recognize this moniker.
      It is one thing to have open discussions about serious topics and it is another to go around assaulting people for having opposing opinions. Do you truly think that laying blame as resolutions then vaulting hate as motivation and inspiration will lead towards anything of value? The whole cause is under closer scrutiny now to the point that some even ask themselves whether it is the J themselves who are prodding these movements towards illogical, emotional actions and responses. But that’s just conjecture. Divide and conquer, as you say.
      ROK has always been open to question the JQ. Nobody was ever banned for speaking about it here during my time. Hell, even Roosh wrote an article that shed light on the JQ a year or so ago. Scour the comments section of any article and you will see memes galore of the Jews. People are just tired of it and everybody has gotten the message loud and clear by now.
      Now is the time for answers. There is no more hiding. No escape. All will be revealed through a scorching light and everybody will be held accountable in blinding Truth and Justice.

      1. haha.
        well, I never really participated in any of these raids or attacks. I’ve always respected Roosh and held him in high esteem no matter what, so I never wanted to shit up his board too badly. That said, I can admit to leaving some pretty hostile comments a few times.

        1. That was the past and squirmeshes come with the territory. It was pretty impressive seeing the coordination and a few of the posts were fucking lethal. I’m convinced Roosh is an elephant or is being protected by one.
          I know why you’re here. Must suck to see your party in such disarray. You would never think of staying here so I wish you the best on your ventures. Beers are on me.

    3. If I’m not mistaken, this was one of the first places I came face to face with the Happy Merchant memes. It was funny, we had a laugh, and we wound up discussing whatever we’d come here for.
      You are correct that this is not an Alt-Right site, but not a few of us are Alt-Right. We have good conversations here, and if you’ve got something interesting to add we’d love to have you around more.
      Just remember that this is not explicitly a site for discussing the JQ, and you’ll fit right in here. It’s also not a site for shit-talking each other over chess games, posting video links, or talking about the many alternatives to a college degree, but it happens.

      1. thanks for that. I tend to comment a lot on the JQ because it’s the most fascinating to me, but you’re right there is plenty more to discuss.

      2. The beauty of ROK is that it accepts everybody regardless of color or creed, just follow the Declarations and abide by the laws of the land. Kinda what being American is all about.

        1. And the comments section, even at its nastiest is really nothing more than men busting balls; sparring even.

        2. Yeah it has this vibe like a night out with your buddies at a bar. On rare occasions you beat the shit outta each other but the next day your back to tag-teaming the next hot camel-toe in yoga pants that walks by.

    4. What the hell are you talking about? This site is red-pilled on the JQ. Maybe you advocated mass murder of a particular (((ethnic group)))? Just speculating. That’s the only reason I could see you getting banned.

      1. Nope, never done that. I got banned under a different moniker but could never figure out why.
        The site is purple pilled on the JQ. Willing to go there, but not willing to go all the way there.
        It’s okay, I’ve made peace with it. lol

        1. I’m afraid I’m unable to enlighten you, friend. It’s a tremendously complicated question, and any answer I have would only be my opinion. I haven’t reached any firm conclusions yet, I just want more people to discuss the issue.

        2. “I got banned under a different moniker but could never figure out why”
          *cough* ASSHOLE *cough*

        3. Referencing what I mentioned above, the alt-right could go further with its case if you guys could rebrand the argument with modern terminology.. ROK discusses similar topics but in different words see Roosh’s post.

  11. To claim that you are red pilled, alt-right, conservative, whatever…and then avoid the issue of Jews and their role in shaping our culture, paints you as a coward and a hypocrite. It’s that simple. You don’t have to go full 1488 but if you deny that Jews deserve a whole lot of criticism, then you are a total fag and a normie.

      1. Why take it personally? I’ve been commenting here since day one, and been attacked for my views on numerous occasions. It’s no big deal, really. But if I make a comment about Jews, get a bunch of people calling me a basement-dwelling homo virgin, and get no support or upvotes, why would I hang around? Life’s too short.

        1. Can’t even afford me one example? You can be a goat-fucking Neanderthal nationalist from the 88th degree z plane and nobody would give a shit here. Yeah you get your balls busted. Everybody does. You were just probably a big fuckin’ asshole that’s all.
          Enough with the ‘feels brah bring some facts.

    1. Yes they do deserve criticism, although in line with some other comments, it is also up to whites to grow a pair and influence the culture back in their favour, the legal system, immigration, banking..

    1. Ah….the purple helmeted avenger. Too bad he didn’t make the screening on the Marvel series.

      1. on fire today jim…..must have had some kratom in your corn flakes.

        1. I am sure the streak won’t last forever, someone is bound to get sick or crimson tide or something.

        2. Don’t be squeamish! If Moses can part the red sea…well so can you. Or you can always use my response….”you don’t seem to be bleeding out of your mouth”

  12. Does this business project require me to speak in disjointed sentences that make little sense, or is that your own special little twist on the whole ordeal?

  13. I don’t think anybody is against some sort of ethnic quotas, I mean even Mexico has it written on their immigration laws but the decision behind the so called “break” were well thought out. It doesn’t make any sense to make those type of statements you got to know the media will use against the movement (not particularly against the person that said it)
    Still the movement is young ideas will be brought up and dismissed while others will grow or mutate

    1. But the whole point of this movement is Fuck the Media. They are lying snakes and always have been. They will always hate us no matter what. So fuck them and their platform. We are building our own parallel system. That Cernovich fails to grasp this basic concept is stunning. He thinks they are going to make him a legitimate media figure. It’s a joke.

        1. 1) Don’t call me son
          2) I never said I hate Jews – that’s your projection talking.
          3) All the people you mentioned have Jewish bosses who dictate the content of the programming. Or are you going to pretend that Wolf Blitzer isn’t one of the most prominent Zionists in the world?

      1. Cernovich isn’t altruistic- this is a business for him. Same as all of the big names. (Exception being someone like Stefan Molyneux- because he is a philosopher and seeks truth.) Cerno sees that the JQ will restrict his ability to sell to a wider audience. I don’t blame him for it, necessarily. I also don’t have an answer on what to do about it.

        1. I don’t blame him for it either. His mistake, though, was to claim that he is alt-right, and to claim credit for spreading the term ‘cuckservative’. Naturally when he is shown to be an alt-lite cuck, people are going to feel used and betrayed – especially if they paid for his books. He misrepresented himself for profit.

  14. I’ve never understood why pointing out that Jews control the media is “racist.” It’s simply a fact. Jews themselves admit it, lol. Whether it’s good or bad is another discussion, but no rational person can deny the truth of it.
    As for the “split,” I don’t think it’s anything to get worked up about. At the end of day, all of these people will be fighting leftists and that’s as it should be.

    1. I was of the same mind reading his post. Ok, so the Jews do in fact control a lot of the media. And Germanic types control most of the agribusiness/farms/livestock. Big whoop. There’s no harm at all in making a factual observation, so when people get hypersensitive about normal facts, I’m bound to think that they either have an agenda or that they are utter fools. Or both.

      1. “Ok, so the Jews do in fact control a lot of the media.”
        Except under the new international definition of antisemitism that would be classified as perpetuating an antisemitic meme (I haven’t checked, but that’s the impression I get). You said control (bad) but then qualified that with ‘a lot of’, so you might be ok.

        1. My general response towards “international definitions” is a hearty middle finger proudly thrust into the air.

    2. It’s because it doesn’t matter.
      I would be happy if 100% OF THE MEDIA were controlled by the Jews, or as the alt right thinks of them – Da Jooooooze, if they were all like Milo and other Jewish conservatives.
      We all know, because they’re generally very high IQ, that Da Joooooze tend to rise very high in society and media is no exception.

      1. So you believe that degenerate homosexuals who constantly brag of their negro fetishism are the ideal people to run our national media? Says it all.

        1. Yeah, we got that, Einstein.
          Like 6.66 YEARS ago. baha
          We punk out ALL liberals.
          But, many are NOT those Pesky Joooooooooze that you HATE so passionately! haha

    3. It’s part of the “war on noticing”. But I think Jews get really touchy when ppl point out that they ‘control the media’ because they have a guilty conscience. Deep down they KNOW that the media they’ve been pushing is degenerate garbage. They know it was designed to harm its viewers. They fully understand that they have weaponized the mass media and that ppl are catching on. So when you call them out on it, they freak the fuck out. Media isn’t just like any other industry. It’s arguably the single most crucial control matrix in all of humanity.

      1. what that overlooks is the fact that many jews, particularly progressives jews, are often highly idealistic, and believe that their influence is important and necessary – a part of making the world a better place (repairing the world) or at least moving it on in the direction of ‘progress’. If you believe your influence is for the best you may be less than inclined to do act in such a way to permits its constraint.

        1. Actually that is a very good, and important point. Many, perhaps most Jews involved in progressivism believe they are trying to make the world a better place (tikkun olam). Yet they are still aware that it will be perceived by goys as being bad, so they are sensitive to that.
          However, I was mostly talking about the true garbage in the media. It’s not even really progressive anymore. Promoting miscegenation? How does that help anyone? Promoting vapid materialism, sex, porn, twerking, drug abuse, transgenderism, violence, etc. None of that crap is any good, and many Jews are pushing it into our society….but of course not in Israel.
          How could that stuff be seen as anything but intentional poison foisted onto the public consciousness?

        2. the most generous thing you could say about it is they do it solely for the profit, with no regard to damaging the society. I personally do not believe that though. I think it is intentional, based on deep-seated hatred, rivalry, and revenge.

        3. what people on the right / conservatives etc might see as ‘garbage’ might be seen very differently from a ‘progressive’ position. That’s why free and open debate is important, so that each side can argue it’s case. If you believe patriarchy / heterosexuality and rigid gender roles are bad then you may well think that porn, transgenderism and Miley Cyrus twerking is just super. I think the problem is that people’s positions and perspectives need to be discussed openly but that at the moment that doesn’t happen because we have to be so careful about speech codes etc.
          I have a lot of interest in what progressive Jews have to say, but I also find too often their influence isn’t sufficiently upfront for it to be truly democratic. I want all the arguments and all the positions on the table

        4. If you study Jewish ‘progressivism’ it is essentially all self serving and always has been.
          The great con is in selling it to the goyim and possibly their own guilty conscience that what they do is in the interest of humanity.

          “Since the Jews are the highest and most cultured people on earth, the Jews have a right to subordinate to themselves the rest of mankind and to be the masters over the whole earth . . . The Jews will become the masters over the whole earth and they will subordinate to themselves all nations, not by material power, not by brute force, but by light, knowledge, understanding, humanity, peace, justice and progress.
          Judaism is communism, internationalism, the universal brotherhood of man, the emancipation of the working class and the human society. It is with these spiritual weapons that the Jews will conquer the world and the human race. The races and the nations will cheerfully submit to the spiritual power of Judaism, and all will become Jews”
          Harry Waton ‘A program for Jews: An answer to all anti semites, a program for humanity’

        5. I suspect the same.
          Their insatiable thirst for power over others and lack of compassion and acknowledgement for the trauma they have inflicted upon their various hosts makes any idea of globalist Jewry as an act of altruism laughable.
          I have pondered a theological perspective. Perhaps they had fallen at some point in history and now serve the lord of lies and deception. Satan’s chosen people to corrupt and condemn mankind.

        6. I’ve read some of the Waton. As far as I can tell the guy’s political programme is sincere rather than self-serving. If it is self-serving it is because he believes jews have an historical mission. His vision of judaism is of some kind of liberation theology / emancipatory politics for all people, in line with that mission. Like Marx he seems to think in terms of historical forces at work, except what he calls fascism / state capitalism (?as I remember) has to precede true communism. It’s a very long and repetitive work and I didn’t get through that much of it, but Waton seemed to believe – probably quite mistakenly – that if people (the goyim….the angry goy in that race war game below?) understood what the aim was they would themselves sign up to the whole programme.
          Waton is making a case for a particular vision at a critical juncture in history (the rise of fascism – he was writing in the early 1930s I think). It’s a very instructive book, but I don’t think that quote (which I didn’t actually read) gives you a full sense of what it is about – although it is somewhat troubling

        7. I wouldn’t try to justify that. Its obscene, and many jews have pointed that out. I think Israel Shahak was one of the sharpest critics of jewish fundamentalism like Ovadia’s.
          Maybe that kind of thinking isn’t entirely absent from what Waton says, but I’d say the latter is very, very different. Waton is coming from a very different tradition, even if there may be some common roots. I’m not saying what Waton wanted was good, but he thought it was. He thought it was good for everybody in the long run, including non-jews. Even if you assume he was mistaken, and arrogant (or supremacist) you still need to understand where he’s coming from: it doesn’t seem to easily boil down to self-interest in the way that is often alleged.

      2. Well it has less influence than it used to so we can relax a bit people are turning to non-mainstream newspapers and youtube etc

    4. The only thing we need to focus on regarding the split is who’s perpetrating it and who benefits. Many a great movement has been crippled by Trojan horses, flatterers, and infiltrators, and many a great man has taken such albatrosses into his confidence to his long-term detriment. Caesar had Pompey (and a host of others). Dr. Martin Luther King had Bayard Rustin. Trump has Peter Thiel and a few other “colorful characters” who remind me of the wealthy elite business-owners who backed gay marriage and Planned Parenthood to the hilt. Everybody’s trying to straddle the fence. I personally don’t think there’s any such thing as gay conservatives, as their mindset and behavior in the bedroom are the exact polar opposite of what the majority of us would call “conservative.” What better ploy could you have than to get your Rosie O’Donnells shouting “throw him out” at the top of their lungs on the outside, distracting us while liberal agents work on eroding the conservative power-base from the inside. THAT’S what we need to take from this article, and be on our guard against it.

    5. ‘I’ve never understood why pointing out that Jews control the media is “racist.” ‘
      It’s partly because of the Scofield / Dispensationalist / ‘Left Behind’ morons in the US Christian Church (most evangelical Protestants) who take a few Bible verses out of context and
      1) think Catholic and Orthodox are not even Christians
      2) think if you are ethnically or religiously Jewish, you get a ‘Get Out of Hell Free’ card.
      3) Think they have the End Times sequence nailed down exactly
      4) Think you are a heretic if you dare question 1,2 or 3.

      1. I would say the question your post answers would relate more to why the christian right tends to support israel / zionism.

        1. 1) Hence my word ‘partly’.
          2) I comment on a number of conservative websites (Breitbart, PJ Media), and any criticism of the Jews, no matter how legitimate, gets labeled as ‘anti-Semite’ (unless you phrase it very precisely).
          3) I would probably add that the Holocaust card still matters to the ‘Right’, despite the Hitler killed fewer people than say Stalin, Mao, or the amount of aborted babies in America
          4) I have posted a comment on Breitbart (to the effect of point 3 in this comment) and I was labeled (among other things)
          a) a Nazi apologist
          b) a traitor to America

        2. 2) if one’s commenting on any sensitive matter it’s always advisable to do so with sensitively and precision is a part of that. There are antisemitic memes out there and it’s always important to check sources, make sure any evidence is sound – for instance I’m fairly confident Hollywood has a lot of jewish influence, but I doubt it would be easy to evidence more than that
          3) re. the holocaust, I think the norman finkelstein line is at least a legitimate line of inquiry – beyond that I’d just stay away from the issue – a lot of people died that’s all that really matters.

        3. Here’s my ultimate view:
          I could honestly care less about the Jews (beyond my duty to pray for their conversion).
          I could be persuaded to support Israel on the basis they are a semi-friendly democratic power, but that’s it.
          I do care about twisting passages of Scripture to support a kooky theory ( I grew up in a cult where they did the same), and ignoring the basic stuff like repentance and self-righteousness while asking God to bless America (a phrase I am convinced hurts His ears), and proclaiming ‘one nation under God’ and standing on the promises while stomping on the premises (which is why I’m not sanguine about the ultimate end of MAGA).
          But I am done (edit: trying) to convince these morons.
          May they either come to repentance or may God break them beyond ruin.

        4. fair enough. It doesn’t do obsess over single factor issues / explanations. Very effective way of losing perspective. As I’ve said here, the only thing I think we should insist upon is the right and the ability to talk about and examine everything that might impact on a fairness / justice / democracy etc. There’s no need to anticipate any conclusions, but there is a need to avoid the kind of idiocy of the hard-core 1488ers, who would happily lead all of us to perdition once more

        5. actually what’s interesting, isn’t the question of whether it’s true – it may or may not be, sometimes people want to project power beyond what they have – but rather why he thinks its right. I don’t think it’s about fear. I think it’s about what he believes (progressive) jews can achieve with the right tools.

    6. People tend to inject a lot of butthurt into such inquiries. Looking at data and asking questions was once called “science” and “investigation,” but no longer.
      I think the key is that the left has pushed a rhetoric that suggests all questions are only asked by undesirables.
      If you look into the IQ statistics, you must be racist, because only a racist would look at that.
      If you observe that Jews as a people are overwhelmingly overrepresented in the judicial system, the legal profession, or media, you must be racist because only a racist would ever look at that.
      If you observe that there’s no evidence that Russia did anything to directly influence the election, you must be a sexist and a traitor to America, because only a sexist would suggest Hillary wasn’t cheated out of the election and only a traitor would say we don’t know Russia did anything wrong.
      Value judgment or no, the very question is wrong. 1984 has gone from dystopian prophecy to dystopian reality.

  15. There are two things going on here – people wanting to separate themselves from Nazi cosplayers (what Mike did) and people tempting to try and control private behavior (what Bill Mitchell did).
    Roosh is also right when he says on the forum that the 1488 mob is going to turn on each other eventually. Watching the spat between pol and TRS, it’s already started.
    This is why you ultimately don’t want to join movements as a man, I think. You get embroiled in petty purity fights eventually, and make yourself vulnerable (law 20 – do not commit to anyone).
    If your identity is too trapped in some “movement” it probably means you’re a loser, and that always happens with these kinds of edgy movements too – when they go mainstream, losers come in and make it a clusterfuck.

    1. Thanks for this bit of sensibility in a comments section that is bound to get all nut ball with people on all sides of what amounts to a nonsense issue in the first place.
      I would think that as a site for “red pill” men that we would see more people suggesting not to get involved in “movements” however what I am finding more and more is that on all sides of every argument there are people who just need the helpful echoes of the likeminded. Like BLM, Feminists, Leftists in general the 1488 nerds and stormcuks amount to no more than a group of chubby kids who play dungeons and dragons who sit around together talking about why the jocks are such jerkfaces.
      Individuality is really key and while people may agree with different aspects of different groups, maintaining autonomy from those groups and becoming a complete person is really the way to go. The group think that I see in some factions on this and other websites is really pathetic and disheartening.

      1. You’re welcome. That’s because a lot of the comments section now consists of people who base their lives on a “movement” and consequently get puritanical about it.
        Shame because when ROK started the comment section was always gold.
        But ROK basically went mainstream. In a way, it almost felt better when we were constantly losing and Tuthmosis put out an article that caused a mass triggering every few months.

        1. I have been feeling much the same lately. Where it is not mainstream it is so reactionary that it is not really different in the same way that the stormfags aren’t really different from BLM when it comes down to it. Just a different shade of weak. When I first started commenting here I really saw the vast majority of commenters were strong minded individuals who all had beliefs, but also curiosity and independence. It sadly has looked less and less like than over the last 4-6 months.

        2. Why not start your own blog, where you can discuss nihilism, cartoons, pop culture, and how all race realists are fat and play D&D? Then you can amass your own group of commenters who agree with you. You certainly appear to have the time to do it.
          That’s what I’m doing, anyway. Instead of trying to force this site to be what I want it to be, I’m running my own thing.

        3. because I don’t need an echo chamber of people who agree with everything I say to insulate me from the opinions of those who disagree. I am a man and not a sniveling coward. That’s the answer that first comes to my head I guess.

        4. Here here(hear hear?)! lolknee is an asshole, but hes our asshole. I respect his candor- he is what he is, and he makes no bones about it

        5. I’ve noticed the same thing here lately. I stumbled upon this site less than a year ago, and it quickly became a guilty pleasure… The commentary was insightful and absolutely hilarious in many cases… I can’t count the amount of times that I experienced fits of laughter from reading people’s posts (especially the ones about Crossfit) only to have my wife ask me what I’m laughing at and I would just tell her “ahh, it’s nothing.”
          As you pointed out in your above post… “Individually is key.” – 100% Correct. People have a tendency to join this Mob Mentality and they typically lose their sense of identity. You see it with almost anything that creates emotional excitement (politics, sports, religion, etc.). There is nothing wrong with sharing similar opinions, seeking out self-improvement, having fun with a group or even voicing your frustrations, but you should never set aside individual thought and allow some “group or crowd” to influence your personal behaviors – that shit can turn sour real quick! You can easily alienate yourself from the people in your life that really matter.
          Sometimes, people should just step back, have a drink and chill the fuck out. Life is too short to waste your time getting wound up over things that may not truly impact the “Quality” your life.

        6. Do you have a little bit of CHILD porn mixed into your regular stash too, son.
          Do tell!
          Too easy.

        7. yup, and unfortunately what that means for the western world is that non-whites will outcompete whites unless if whites become race realists

        8. More specifically it denotes how Jews work collectively like a hivemind with hyper ethnocentrism undermining and dividing all competitor groups. This is why they push ‘individuality’ relentlessly on gentiles. It gives them supreme advantage and handicaps those they wish to subjugate.

        9. That is true and unfortunately the truth is so fucked up that very few people will ever be willing to consider it.

      2. You have to be careful not to run into libertarian “atomic individuality” meaning, you end up in a place where you just want to be left alone, which is OK, but there is a leftist movement that will leave you alone on purpose….
        until you are outnumbered.
        Then you discover that politics is downstream of culture and all that “It’s OK as long as nobody is getting hurt” does not work when degenerates who despise you can hide in a voting booth and anonymously cast a ballot in favor of your enslavement or even death.
        We don’t need individuality. Individuality is a sop, a diversion. It’s watching the world burn while those burning it get no resistance. Sure sure “But we can’t be communists!” yes indeed but if men are too busy being individuals, they have no unified front against these mentally ill communists who are religious in their ideals and statism.
        That is, if we don’t get together intentionally and save civilization from the leftists, then you as an individual will someday be individually persecuted and be all alone in it.

        1. Individuality is not the same as atomism. They are different. An individualist can and usually does take an interest in his friends, family and community. Think the “John Wayne” rugged individualists who created America. An atomist is an almost uniquely socialist invention, which was outlined quite well by how Winston Smith was isolated to the point of solipsism by O’Brian in Room 101 in order to break him and then rebuild him according to the ideals of Ingsoc in George Orwell’s novel 1984.

        2. I get what you are saying. However, there is a difference, a marked difference, between individual men of good faith who stand together because there is strength in numbers and because men are social animals and people who adhere to the dogma and doctrine of a group (usually because that group is saying things that make them feel all warm and fuzzy). I think individualism is exactly what we need to be honest. In turn, when individual men contemplate what is in their own best interest with open minds and good information they will make choices that will have them naturally aligned rather than artificially pulled together under the general rubric of a group or movement.

        3. I agree 100%- and this is why the alt split is so disturbing. How can the movement continue if it just dissolves in to the mainstream?

        4. Maybe if John Wayne had stayed in town in the first place things wouldn’t have gone to shit, but he just had to ride off into the sunset.
          America wasn’t built by individuals, it was built by families, churches, ethnicities and idealists. Do communities sometimes have infighting, of course. If however you don’t share common cause with others, you will find yourself alone when you most need allies.

      3. That’s why most of these movements eventually implode.
        “Either you think like us or you’re just another cuck.” They end up becoming everything that they hate, and after a while, only the most ardent and extreme members remain. And they’re usually a bunch of losers who never get laid and have zero friends.

        1. liberals get your concept. At college, I noticed the LGBTV conglomeration was hosted in “the women’s building” (Why didn’t I see a man’s building?) they consolidate, even though there are minor differences in opinion. (Which is more important, environmentalism or stopping mink farmers?) Meanwhile, their media does all it can to separate conservative factions.

        2. Man, when I was at uni in the early 2000s there was a womyn’s room so now they get a whole building?!

      4. And what kind of society so you want to be an individual in?
        I’m not of an “either you’re with or against us” mindset, but most self-styled opponents of the alt-right who aren’t of the liberal/SJW bent seem to have a cafeteria outlook on which aspects of the current lefty, multicultural, feminist, LBGQT alphabet soup people society that’s pushed on us. Perhaps you want contemporary liberalism, minus a couple of elements you deem particularly distasteful; some of us see the different manifestations as related parts of a comprehensive whole.
        Acting the edgy, nihilistic proponent of individualism isn’t a luxury likely to be permitted under the endgame the liberals and their cuckservative enablers have planned, which is to say a probable hybrid of contemporary South Africa and Glasnot-era Soviet Union.

        1. I actually like the society I live in currently. There are some things I’d like to see change but all things being equal I’m pretty happy with things

        2. If you like America in 2017, well, you’re welcome to it.
          But if you think that the party is sustainable as is, good luck with that. You’re feasting as Babylon falls. But perhaps that’s how you want it.

        3. If you think so. I see people generating wealth, building a society and doing their level best to ignore people on the left and right who have a hugely inflated sense of how important they are. There is a ton of opportunity for growth, there is a wonderful word out there. You guys are such Debbie downers. I suspect it is because you want to feel you are involved in something important. The alt right is a hobby. The world is really doing alright. Of course there are problems, there are always problems. Some will get fixed, some new ones will come up and the wheel keeps turning. I never understand the mentality that says we are in such a horrible position

        4. One thing I’ll never be accused of being is an optimist. But politics is really not a major factor in my life, though I’ll make no bones about where my sympathies fall. I’m really a nondescript white-collar guy with a side passion for art and history, but for the politics I espouse. There was a time when my views were more or less something like classical liberalism (though I’d never have called myself a libertarian or an “anarcho-capitalist”), but then there was also a time when going outside didn’t mean I was encountering a microcosm of the 3rd World. You seem like reasonably enough fellow personality-wise, but if your views barring feminism would earn you a pat on the head at Huffington Post or if you think the liberals are “the real racists”, we’re certainly not treading down the same path.

        5. You and I mostly likely dislike the same things. I can’t stand feminism. However, i don’t encounter it in my life. There are always going to be nasty little shits out there: third world gangs, harridans screaming about something or another, fags in Hollywood whatevever. But I honestly believe that the threat is being blown out of proportion because people enjoy participating in a revolution. Here i am in on of the most liberal cities in the country and if I want to encounter annoying feminists or homos or people protesting this or that I have to go out of my way. The world is what you make of it. I really believe that. I was given a world and did my best to figure out how to live in it in a way that I am genuinely happy and, to be honest, it wasn’t all that hard. The things we obsess over tend to seem a lot more pressing than they are — like when you buy new shoes and it feels like everyone is stepping on them the first day you wear them.
          The vast majority of the stuff about the modern world that really annoys me I had no idea about until reading it on ROK and still, even now that my “eyes are open to it” simply do not see it in my day to day life.
          I do see, however, people who work hard, enjoy the arts, enjoy good food and booze, enjoy beautiful women, enjoy their families.
          No, the world isn’t perfect. It has never been perfect. But I like things as they are today. Do I wish all the cunty feminists and lisping homos would fall off a cliff? Sure. Am I going to make a point about caring about it….? No way Jose

        6. I guess that caring about it is our main difference; as they say, living well is the best revenge, and I’m a fairly amiable and happy sort of person. But ignoring the problems, and I consider them very serious problems indeed, won’t make them disappear.
          Being relatively affluent can shield people from the worst of it, in certain ways and to certain degrees, but even that won’t last forever. About a dozen years ago, I was living in what would have been an area populated by upper-middle class professionals, but it was not uncommon to see dozens of illegal Hispanics sharing a single house. I can understand how having essentially an entire village of people would allow them to afford it, but God knows how they managed to get mortgages or which among the veritable clan of residents’ names they were in.

        7. I never understand the mentality that says we are in such a horrible position
          ^^^^ This struck me hard man. You do have a way with words. Rest being said, I wholeheartedly concur. I like your optimistic outlook and others may misinterpret it as nihilistic. You’re right when you said the word is doing alright. I hate it when my old relatives reminisce about so called ‘good old days’.

        8. Thanks bud.
          The good days are today if you chose to live them. Wallowing in the negative is essentially just a hobby for people incapable or unwilling to go out and be a success. Negativity breeds negativity. It’s a difficult but beautiful world out there.

        9. Exactly. This is why I am not exactly worried about the alt light as any sort of political force. It is basically neocon libertarianism at this point. We have all seen how well those two things have turned out.

      5. The need to belong to a group is natural, there’s nothing wrong with it. There’s no such a person who doesn’t belong to something. Even if you consider yourself a lone wolf, if you don’t live in a cave without internet you end up contribuiting to something between your actions and your lifestyle.
        Therefore, it is better to embrace a movement whose logic works.
        Men with strong mind will not bind themselves to any movements beyond a healthy point, but you have to remember that wisdom is not something you born with, it’s something you aquire. The unwise and the young men needs guidance, something convidative, and that’s exacly why these movements are a necessity. It provides them an easier door.
        Yes, the risks of puritanical bullshit is real, but this is a risk we can afford given the necessity of such movements.
        What we can’t afford rith now is being divided in our own fronts.

      6. I find it telling when people who claim/portray neutrality or nihilism have zero nuance when it comes to the JQ.
        They always need to defend, misdirect, steer the discussion away and compel others that the JQ is a myth or simply irrelevant.
        The JQ deserves serious investigation. Labelling those who do as ‘stormcucks’ ‘nazi’s’ and ‘losers’ like a feminist banshee afraid of the truth go’s against everything red pill stands for.

        1. You are right, the JQ is VERY important.
          It’s just that you guys are posing the WRONG Q.
          The only one that needs to be asked is –
          Why do you HATE Da Jooooooooooooooooze!

        2. bahahaha
          What takes you 6,666,666 words (someone else’s, natch!) I can TRUMP in ONE (my own)

        3. I supported Trump unlike the large majority of jews and the vast majority of jews with major wealth and power.

        4. Your “JQ” is no different than BLMs White question of feminists toxic masculinity question. Just your hobby and one you picked up because of mental and psychological inferiority. Honestly, I pity you

        5. The problem is the JQ is too often boiled down to Jew,jew,jew like a mantra. Making them supermen whilst robbing europeans of all agency as if europeans did not have hand in allowing Jews such power in the 1st place.
          As the saying goes.
          The Merchant sells and the Goyim buys.

        6. Jews the Omnipotent. And Goyim the helpless.
          Meanwhile Arabs and the like manage to keep the Jews suppressed until now.

        7. The BLM and feminism has Jewish promoters, agitators and backers.
          The Jewish question is suppressed and enveloped in a shroud of secrecy that is aggressively protected.
          You zealously defend the indefensible. Your kin.

        8. Yeah you sound like a sad and pathetic faggot. But it’s an new year and I’m not trying to get into discussions with people who are more than 50 iq points lower than I am. I wish you all the luck in the world and hope that you find happiness while cowering in the shadows pretending that the reason you are a failure is because some secret cabal has it in for you–this way you can feel special and not admit that the reason you are a failure is because you are weak, pathetic and inferior

        9. Standard projection. Nothing offends a corrupt Jew more than the truth and their exposure.
          If the afterlife exists, I pity you. You’ve made your bed with the devil. I suspect his pawns will not be greeted with the after party they expected. A sad irony of loyal servitude to the lord of lies and deceit.

        10. How do you know that he is a “failure”? Not an argument.
          Yea, let’s not question the motives of a group of people that funded half of Hillary’s campaign…. This is why if there is anything left of Western civilization it will be based on ideals similar to the Alt Right. They actually “get it”, and act accordingly.

        11. This is ultimately why I am not really worried about the ‘Alt light’ phenomenon in the long run, you folks have no answers, and the left is better at being snarky.

        12. “Toxic masculinity” is a nebulous & inane concept with no basis in fact or data.
          That all groups have biases against out-group members is supported by an infinite cache of data. This claim is no less true when applied to white people. The problem is that whites don’t have a state or a party that represents them. Whereas jews & blacks have interest groups, lobbyist groups, laws, politicians, etc. specifically committed to furthering their own group interests. The problem with the Cultural Marxist left is that they like to imagine themselves entirely innocent of the crimes they routinely accuse whites of, despite whites having by & large disarmed themselves decades ago. The ugly reality is exactly the opposite. They are more guilty of those crimes in the modern era, in every meaningful respect. And they are susceptible to the same psychological shortcomings & built-in prejudices as whites. These claims have particular relevance to Jewish political activity, since Jews are vastly disproportionately wealthy & influential. It is not anti-semitism to say “jews are exactly like the rest of us” to anyone except jewish supremacists.

        13. No one is handing anyone any money. Want to build an empire…get on it and stop thinking about how unfair life is.

        14. No one is handing anyone money: except for the 12 billion in welfare aid to Isreal paid by the U.S. taxpayer, and this is without getting into the demographics of the private central banking perpetrators…

        15. Indeed it’s a nuanced topic… About 1 in 5 Jews are the best allies white people can have (then another 1 in 5 are so radically right Jewish supremacist they often don’t consider Gentiles fully human, with the remaining 3 in 5 being too liberal for healthy western societies.) These 1 in 5 are where we get the American JPFO groups etc and are why even when a group is identifiably harmful there is always a need to look at each individual.

        16. I always wonder about comments like these. Do you just cut and paste this stuff from or do you ever actually try to think about it? My guess is the prior, but my ability to get into the mind of numbskulls is not great

        17. Are you denying that the US sends billions of dollars of foreign aid per year to the Jewish ethno-state???
          … No of course not because that would actually be debating on-topic rather than resorting to lazy vague-ish ad hominem attacks.

        18. Your numbers are incorrect but yes. The US agreed to 38b over 10 years I think. Quite a lot of money. How much of I think is required to be spent on US manufactured goods? How many military bases does the US keep? Is your anti-semitism so powerful that you don’t realize we are in a war with Islam? Could go on but why bother.
          BTW ad hominem is when you base your argument against someone on a personal attack deflecting from the issue. I, however, am not engaging in a debate with you. I am just mocking you and your ignorance.
          So yeah, not ad hominem…I’m just insulting you. And your mom is a whore

        19. Don’t bother with frodo here. We are talking bottom 10% IQ. There are questions worth asking and there are definitely things which are not as they ought to be, but discussing them with people who have a baseline intelligence closer to a squirrel than a human isn’t going to help anything

        20. That’s what he does to everyone who mentions anything race realist/JQ. They’re all basement dwellers/losers who don’t get laid every night like he does.

        21. I don’t know if he is the one who made that documentary or not, but it is actually a pretty good analysis of the Jewish question. It doesn’t glorify nazis or slander them.

        22. The 3 billion a year is only direct aide to Israel (yes they get OUR free shit instead of spending the money elsewhere, but free government cheese is still welfare,) but the amount is WAY higher when you look at the indirect military assistance we spend being Israel’s ‘big brother with a stick’ (that serves nobodies interests but Israel’s.) That’s a type of welfare too.
          We’re in a war with Islam almost entirely BECAUSE OF our support of Israel, and supporting a dependent little apartheid state in the Middle East doesn’t remotely serve America’s interests.

        23. It doesn’t analyse anything. It portrays the ‘Jewish question’ as whacky conspiracy theory and bombards you with false account of worldwide Jewish victimhood.
          The evil music and dark images overlayed with edited Hitler speeches are ridiculous.

        24. Did you watch it? I didn’t get that impression. The latest episode was pro-holocaust revision

        25. The problem is solely fingering jews is that it removes agency and responsibility for the victim as if he cannot do anything about the omnipotent jews. But in truth what he can control is what he is responsible for. He cannot control others but he can certainly control how he reacts.
          As the saying goes “The Merchant sells and the Goyim buys”

        26. Frodo is weak. National socialism has always appealed to the weak who can’t fend for themselves

        27. Simply being aware of the threat is half the battle. There’s also the outright criminality and corruption that’s sometimes involved, which makes it more than us just ‘buying what they’re selling’. You are correct though that they only do what we let them get away with. A certain amount of outgroup distrust needs to be brought back in a big way, especially with Jews who can blend in.

        28. Jew are nepotistic and have a strong in-group preference. They thrive and rise to the top in individualist societies due to their more collectivist nature as well as strong selection for IQ due to their only means of survival being as merchants and bankers. However the Middle East in history with their more collectivist societies manage to keep Jews from gaining disproportionate influence.

        29. Those things are all true, however the Jew IQ selection is highly exaggerated (just look at the mean IQ in Israel…) The mean IQ of Ashkenazikm is maybe 1-2 IQ points above that of certain comparably sized Caucasian sub populations. Almost all of their rising to the top can be attributed to the aristocracy’s historical decision to put them in charge of money changing, Nepotism, and in-group preference, the later of which they need to be looked down upon and lightly shunned in our truly individualist societies and the former of which should be outright corrected.

      7. But, but…how will I know who I am without a convenient label tacked to my ass? It’s sooo hard to make competent decisions and go through life if I can’t just be pulled along with the school of fish. So, I’m not a trout, but a guppy, I self-identify as a clownfish and how dare anyone doubt me before the big luau.
        (btw, Happy New Year)

    2. When people talk of “movement” I imagine the failed attempts at making MGTOW a “movement”.
      Hence the question: how does a man going his own way be in any movement?
      To think of the alt-right as a movement in the first place is to fail at understanding it. If the alt-right was truly a movement, like the Tea Party for example, it would be coopted – like the Tea Party for example.
      The term “alt” is based on what?
      Heh – these people all make my head hurt.

      1. So what is it if not a movement? It’s a bunch of people who have similar ideas and desires from what I can tell.
        You mean because it is not official and organized?

      2. surely the suggestion is that the alt-lite is in part a co-opting (through fragmentation) of the alt-right. I love Milo, but the hard-core alt-righters are all convinced he’s a gay black-cock loving half-jew who’s intent on diverting them from the issues which matter to them (be that the JQ, muslims, immigrants, miscegenation etc).

    3. Exactly, none of the “nazi’s” understand that they crying about the jews or “JQ” (they afraid to even say it hahah” is the same as SJWs crying about white privilege.

      1. Good point. Those haters of D Joooooze actually do talk about Jewish Supremacy!
        Again, they are not fooling anyone.
        They are OB–SS–E–SS–ED (see what I did there! haha) just like Blacks are of whites. Well the blacks that whine about White Privilege.
        Not Black GOP of course, which are great.
        Do you think these guys would be fans of white privilege –

      2. Are you even aware that “white privilige” and all of the SJW-ideologies are pushed on white people by Jews and shabos-goyim?

        1. shabos-goyim! hahahahahahaahahah
          Folks, these haters of Da Jooooooooos
          use more YI-DDISh than the Rabbi at your local CHABAD house!
          They see JOOOOS behind doorknobs.
          Never have seen ANY group MORE obsessed and JELLY than these
          Joooooooooooooooooooooo haters.
          Even nutty SJW’s.
          The Christian haters are probably a close second.
          But, it’s the SAME spirit for those who have ears!

        2. Why do white people buy into it?
          You can’t force someone to believe something he doesn’t want to believe, or is inherently incompatible with.

        3. I can’t recall every buying into it. In fact, I see it as something of a joke that I look forward to confronting.
          “Check your white privilege”
          *I grab my dick through my pants* “Feeling good!”

        4. Exactly.
          My whole life I’ve been told being a male is inherently bad and feminism is good. Never believed it.
          If we could force people to believe things, then the middle east should be filled with functional, western style democracies.
          Of course, what we have is the complete opposite.

        5. Maybe on your acridge you can be that tough. Most of us, city dwellers, would face serious consequences for speaking up against SJWs lies

        6. so let me get this straight…you expressed anger about Bolsheviks slaughtering slavs as a reason for your white nationalism and hatred of Jews but you are afraid to grab your dick in public for fear of being reprimanded?

        7. Well have you ever actually heard anybody say it to you in real life? I haven’t? If I were to hear it, it wouldn’t be at work, so I presume it would be out at an event or a pub. What can they do, tell the bartender (likely a good friend of mine) not to serve me?

        8. I used to say direct shit to SJWs at some social events, but then I pissed off many people and was called all kind of names. Now I keep my believes to myself by the exception of a few people I trust

        9. I was talking about work mainly. Also I dont like the idea of grabbing my dick in public. Here, in Canada we have more serious punishments for behaviours that you could get away with in the States for example (like anti-free speech laws)

        10. No. Trump never said he will be the next Adolf. He never even addressed the JQ.
          I do not look for Trump to solve my, or our, problems. I am not even an American, for me, Trump is just a sign that America may return to relative normalcy sooner than I have ever expected.

        11. Good question, the most important question. Glad you asked, Sir.
          The answer is simple: Jews, because of their skin color and language, are able to pass as one of us. When they preach “white privilege”, they pass it off as a valid self-criticism of our own in-group. As if one of us noticed that we are doing something wrong, and it is our shared, common interest to correct it.
          It is only after you realise that this shit is peddled by someone of an out-group, that you realise you were taken for a sucker.

        12. Sorry, but I still find this to be a weak explanation.
          This sort of behavior is only found amongst western European whites. As far as I’m aware, Russians have no guilt for their dominance over the other Slavic peoples. The Chinese sure don’t seem to give a damn about their colonial ambitions and the ramifications of those ambitions. The Zulus aren’t apologizing for being the most ruthless warrior tribe in Africa.
          Even if Jews “pose as white” (and if we’re really getting into this level, you do know that the Ashkenazi are genetically European-Semitic hybrids, right?) and peddle white guilt in attempts to weaken “white in-group preference,” whatever that may be, the fact remains that western whites BOUGHT INTO IT OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL.

        13. I have never been told anything like this. I was taught that being a man meant you get up in the morning and go to work and try not to complain too much and that feminism is something college age girls are into between bouts of binge drinking and cock sucking

        14. But we’re yiu just going around randomly saying shut to sjw types to troll them? If so, no wonder they retaliated.
          I have a general rule that politics and religion stay out of bars. If someone is in a bar just rambling about politics I’ll mock them silent and if that fails tell them to shit the fuck up. Why can’t people just go out and enjoy themselves?

        15. You certainly can force people to believe things.
          Many billions have been spent on propaganda and various means to form the public opinion and control the discourse.

        16. Own free will?
          Decades of shaping public thought is only the beginning.
          Crap in food.
          Brainwash education

        17. And that’s why the alt-right is relevant. It is the inevitable response to just that.

        18. Because Goebbels showed if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

        19. So all of the european nations would have to some how recover the wealth they acquired over 1000 years or so and then we would have to create another world war for that to happen

        20. Trump is restoring America culturally back to the 90s.
          I do agree with your statement of ‘normalcy what’ otherwise.

        21. And Its always misquoted out of context as he had written it in an article on how the Jews manipulate the public.

        22. All that does is coerce people who were already inclined to believe them. Someone who is inherently incompatible with an ideology can never really believe it. He can outwardly signal in order to fit in, but he can never really believe it.

        23. I don’t disagree. The narrative has been so far to the left for so long that a pushback was going to happen.

        24. Ever wondered why Jews have been hated for the past five thousand years? It’s not a coincidence. Jews have been kicked out of nearly every nation they’ve been welcomed into for practicing usury and committing genocide against the native peoples.
          Jews are always in conflict with the society they live in and as long as they endeavor to subvert and control each and every country there will always be hostility towards organized Jewry.

        25. Of course there are rank and file Jews, that live according to decent values. However, the Jewish elites, in a tribal sense, have been the force behind global Usury, Bolshevism, Neoconservatism and now the central banking system as well as the IMF.

        26. We already know why Jews, at least in some quarters, have been hated for thousands of years. It’s the same reasons why CHRISTIANS are hated.
          Son, you’re just possessed by those LOW LEVEL DEVILS that pick on Da Jooooooooooooze
          because they don’t have the MIGHTY MANTLE that US wonderful born again believers do.
          But, you’re WAY out of your league here.
          Keep in mind, I’m not here to debate you, son.
          If I wanted your opinion, I’d watch a Hitler PARODY video.
          I am here to make sure you get the BLANK out of the Trump Movement.
          Happy to say I’ve succeeded beyond my wildest expectations!
          Whoooooo! Hoooooo!

        27. So many DEVILS behind doorknobs.
          How DO you sleep at night.
          PS None of them stopped……………TRUMP.

        28. A lot of elements of the 50’s NEVER left. If you go to the right neighborhoods!
          Whoooo! Hooo!

        29. OK, fair enough. But, even with having to blame ourselves, too, now our free will is for them to fuck off, period.

        30. Considering most of europes wealth and resources were squandered in the first two world wars i some how doubt that.

        31. There was rampant feminism, degeneracy, and all the bad stuff we complain about today back in the 90’s? I guess you seem to forget the grunge movement

        32. The 90s was a period when everything looked good on the surface, but there was the undercurrent of degeneracy and feminism.
          Hence the same with Trump: we’ll have a MAGA-fest for the next 4-8 years (which will satisfy the Churchians and the casual), but no fundamentals will really change that much.

        33. Enough years have elapsed now since WW2 that western whites can now stop buying into it so much and ruthlessly attack anyone who calls out white privilege and forced multiculturalism.

        34. I have a strong suspicion that you can’t tolerate facts which contradict your emotional beliefs.

        35. Because white in America people stupidly considered Jewish people to just be equivalent other white people and never treated them as a potentially hostile outgroup or took any measures to control concentration of Jewish influence at cultural focal points like arts, education, and media. Identifying the threat late is better than never at all.

        36. No, tens of millions of ethnically white Russians had to learn about Jewish treachery in a much more brutal and direct way when they were outright genocided under Jewish Bolshevik rule… As a result of suffering under this for the better part of a century Russian survivors now carry some resistance to the Jewish cultural disease (as well as a low level latent infection.)

        37. Yeah the Jewish influence can be addressed more appropriately by attacking and reforming the institutions they’ve coopted rather than targeting them as a group… This is not to say we shouldn’t get rid of things like dual citizens in trusted positions or be more mindful of divided loyalties and disproportionate concentration of influence but tackling them as a group is just going to put their well developed victim reflexes into overdrive which would be counterproductive (plus would lose us the 20% of Jews who are natural allies.)

      3. Some obsessed only with JQ, others see it as an important part of a bigger picture. Regardless, JQ is of utmost importance.
        As a Russian you want me to overlooke the fact that millions of Slavs were butcheted by a small minority (over %80 of early Bolsheviks were from the tribe)?

        1. As you know Germany attacked USSR, and millions died as a consequence. Not sure if it was a genuine question or sarcasm

        2. Hitler also lumped slavs in with jews and gypsy….from what i remember during that time period most of europe did not like slavs

        3. Things havent changed much since, Russians are the West’s main boogeyman. The tensions between Russians and Westerners will always exist. Mentalities are too different.
          The only thing that might make Europeans and Anglos warm up to Russians are racial and religious tensions brought about by mass 3d world immigration and ensuing realization that the enemy is within

      4. I seem to remember 19th century russian novels were replete with references to the ‘woman question’. The phrase the jewish question” keeps reminding me of that

        1. I don’t care if you call it that. Just have the balls to say…don’t abbreviate it like you’re 12 and you’re going to get grounded if you say it

        2. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen the abbreviation before. You’re saying that abbreviation is cowardly. I’m saying the phrase ‘the jewish question’ sounds a bit 19th century.

        3. I apologize I misinterpreted what you wrote. Most of that type of conspiracy stuff will sound ancient because it hasn’t evolved since it was conjured up.

        4. “conspiracy theory” doesn’t cover everything. There are real questions that can and should be fairly asked with respect to influence and representation, same as with any other group, but perhaps more so, as jews, or at least many jewish groups are enormously influential, something which it should be possible to discuss openly as long as it’s done responsibly. My personal interest is in the influence of tikkun olam as a driving force for progressivism.

        5. Ok then lets talk about how most civilizations repeat the same cycle regardless of who’s in power.

        6. I wasn’t aware I had one. I pointed to questions that within a genuinely transparent society might need to be asked about influence / representation that might (or might not be) excessive.
          I can’t see how exploring some cyclical theory of history or whatever would have any bearing on that.

        7. Socrates had the same question, so did Tacitus of Rome, Mansur Al-hallaj of Persian, and many more. You act like you’ve stumbled across some great mystery and see jews are your answer to it when all that is happening is merely a repeat of history.

        8. I’ve said 2 things pretty much:
          1) there are issues of democracy that may need to be addressed with respect to influence / (over-)representation – exactly the kind of thing that has been addressed with other groups in fact and which should simply be a routine matter for any functioning democracy
          2) I’m interested in the influence of tikkun olam on progressives / progressive jews. The modern idea of tikkun olam probably wasn’t around in the age of Tacitus etc. It’s a fairly modern conceit

        9. 1) Tacitus talks about “real” romans not running rome in the later periods and Mansur talks about I believe the sunni ruling over the shiite if i’m not mistaken.
          2) I had to tikkun olam and Rome had a welfare system

        10. so Tactitus was an antisemite. Or he wasn’t. I don’t know enough about the issue to comment.
          But issues of representation / influence don’t have to be approached as conspiracy. We don’t necessarily need to worry about how 4 jews / 5 catholics ended up on the supreme court if simply are free to discuss and assess the situation, including with regard to the possibility that it might be unfair – an over-representation. The same could be said of the finance / federal reserve perhaps – I don’t know – it might be just an impression – I have no figures to back it up, but it seems jews are pretty influential in an extremely critical area. If that’s so, is that an issue for democracy? It might be that without their expertise, the economy would suffer, or as critics suggests that the opposite is true – that isn’t the issue, what is that we are free to examine and address issues that may have a bearing on whether the US (or wherever) can be seen to be fully democratic i.e. representative of the will of the people.
          Not sure I understand point 2.

        11. Lol.
          Can you not think?

          If the “real” romans were not running things in the later periods, then who was?
          Not “real” romans.
          And then it collapsed.
          Because of the influence of others.

        12. not really, it’s collapse was mainly due to immigration and the welfare state that was created through early policies made when “real” romans were running it. What was meant buy “real” romans was those of roman blood. “Real” romans had grown lazy and stopped reproducing so those of other origins stepped in.

        13. Tactius was not not an anti semite, however the romans actually went to war with the jews alot haha. Why do you keep talking about over representation? The higher tier government seats are all held by career politicians who will most likely birth more career politicians. Joe schmo will never make it into any of these seats so representation of the average america will never be. tikkun olam when googled came up with ” A jewish concept defined by acts of kindness performed to perfect or repair the world. The phrase is found in the Mishnah, a body of classical rabbinic teachings. It is often used when discussing issues of social policy, insuring a safeguard to those who may be at a disadvantage.” or basically welfare

        14. the issue of representation is arguably the fundamental problem of democracy. Are the people sovereign and if so what is the will of the people? How can that will, if there is such a thing, be represented at the level of government / leadership? That problem appears to the very last thing anyone in Washington (or equivalent) is worrying about (prior to Trump perhaps), except with regard to ‘identity groups’ where there is an expectation that if you are a woman, gay, a particular colour etc some attempt will be made to keep things fair and ‘representative’ even to the extent of having quotas. So in the former sense the question of representation is about whether the will of the people can be fairly represented at the highest levels within the status quo, and secondly whether that ‘identity group’ approach with regard to representation as ‘inclusion’ should include all groups rather than just some.
          Re tikkun olam – I believe the concept has evolved quite a bit, particularly within kabbalistic based messianic judaism, and the kind of reform judaism etc that followed on from it

        15. Equal representation will never be achievable in a democracy unless the population is homogeneous and even then it will be split between the rich and the poor. You’ll have to elaborate on what the concept of tikkun olam is considered now because i have no jewish elite to consult only google.

        16. That’s where identity politics fits in. We don’t live in a meritocracy but a society where key industries are supposed to reflect i.e represent social inclusion / diverse group identity ( whatever you think of that). The will of the people is now as fragmentary as ‘the nation’ is diverse but it must still be represented democratically.
          As for tikkun olam it may mean different things within different traditions e.g. repairing the soul, spiritual world rather than the material I think, or the former through repairing the latter. It’s a complex, varied and sometimes arcane notion.
          You use Google internet search? Cant you just call Larry and Sergei directly?

        17. If you wanted our democracy to truely reflect it’s population you would have to get rid of the electoral college (the one that voted trump in) even if you went back to the founding of america or even athens the every day joe was not represented in the highest tiers of government. I used to think this was unfair but there have been many examples were the majority do not know whats good for them. I’m not saying I agree with all the governments decisions but I think they have a better idea of global politics than we do.
          Sadly I don’t have larry or sergei’s number. Zionism is a hard club to get in to. Alas I do not have the nose or the wealth to be let in.

        18. Agree or 1930s.. If someone wants to make a case (and it should be discussed not censored) the terminology needs to be updated for 2017

        19. I would say the electoral college does a better job of reflecting the will of the people than a result determined by the popular vote. I’m not an expert on the subject – I’m from the UK – but as I understand it the popular vote on its own is always likely to reflect excessive strength in particularl states just as it did this time round in California / New York with respect to the democrats. Representative democracy may not mean Joe Bloggs gets to govern himself (that would be closer to anarcho-libertarianism or something) but if he elects someone from the governing class to do it for him then there has to be – in theory – some kind of translation of his will – albeit it in the aggregate – into how that someone votes / governs. The modern world has introduced a new element on top of that, namely the issue of identity politics – an all white or all black society may not consider themselves adequately represented in government if everybody in that government is of the opposite colour. Obviously gender, sexuality, race, eligion etc are also factors to consider in that respect – or whatever identity characteristic is salient in terms of inclusion / exclusion. Obviously that can include whites, males etc, but it can also includes jews, or catholics or any other group.
          When you get a goverrnment or elite caste that seems particularly out of touch with either of those two types of democratic ‘representativeness’ (or any other that might seem relevent) then you get what I referred to previously as a potential ‘issue of democracy’. The populism that we are seeing on either of the side of the atlantic at the moment, is partly about that. The elites aren’t representing. They don’t seem to be representive. It’s not just jew elites, it’s all elites, but jewish elites are certainly apart of that, and the jewish part of that may or may not be salient.
          That same popular feeling speaks of a perception that even if the majority may not know what is good for them (is Trump good for the US? Is Brexit good for the UK?) the elites may not not know either, or worse they might be saying they know what’s good for everybody but actually working for their own interests rather than selflessly for the common man. In fact would anyone wonder if elite self-interest wasn’t a priority over the common good of the people….and if that’s the case then you’re left with a ‘crumbs from the table’ justification for maintaining the system as it is. Moreover when you talk of global politics, isn’t that precisely the issue in question – populism, tends to be more insular, less globalist / internationalist. Many people who are anti-globalist recognise that the world economy may suffer in some ways if global connectedness slows but believe that it might be worth it anyway. It all goes back to which will is sovereign. Modern governments are technocratic, and will resist any kind of real subservience to the ignorant unwashed masses – so it isn’t necessarily a question of either / or
          Re. larry & sergei, I wasn’t aware that they were zionists?
          And seriously, you don’t have ‘the nose’? Careful now!

        20. Re. 1930s, I’m not sure what terminology was used by the Nazis etc. It’s probably not a helpful term. If there is an issue to be discussed it should relate to the specifics of the matter.

      5. My thoughts exactly. It really is pathetic, isn’t it? Sure, Jews are disproportionately represented in power centers that often seem to act against the best interest of the people, but the way they crow about it is little better and requires about as much thinking as “whitey tryin’a keep me down” from the Black Lives Matter people.
        They also will never, ever mention that white liberals are far and away the chief instigator of these problems. Nor will they take responsibility for it. It’s always something along the lines of “the Jews hypnotized us.”
        But most pathetic of all is the way they bring these issues up. “Jewish Question” or “JQ” is sacrosanct among them, and if you don’t “talk about it” you’re purged like people who deny white privilege on the left. But phrasing it that way…what imagery does it bring up? What does it sound like?
        They’ve pre-suaded themselves out of making any headway before they even started, then wonder why people are against them.
        They idolize Trump but have obviously learned nothing from him.

        1. The fact that your comment got 7 upvotes tells a story about how utterly bluepilled and cucked the ROK community really is.

        2. Sure. Go ahead. Keep chasing “da JQ” while signaling how “un-cucked” and “red pilled” you are. I won’t wait for you to do something worth celebrating in your life because it’ll be too long a wait.
          The fact that you admitted to being a regressive leftist until 2014 is significant. You’re using the same feminist hystrionics against another imaginary omnipotent boogeyman, but don’t see it. Sad!
          (This is the kind of person I warned about.)

      6. So let’s just ignore a group of people that funded 50% of Hillary’s campaign? In fact let us actively shill for them? Either you are Jewish yourself, or very naive.

        1. You are confusing me with a member of the_donald. If you are expecting me to defend shabbos goy behavior you’re barking up the wrong tree. Trumps’, and indeed White America’s misplaced, un-reciprocated affection for Israel and Jews has been and continues to be its biggest downfall.
          It is the single biggest reason I am skeptical of Trumps ability to make America great again, and also why I know civic nationalism will never work.

        2. so you’re niether for trump of hillary? then why didn’t you criticize them first initially? What are you going to do, clone hitler?

        3. There are more choices than Hitler. I would take Patton, Franklin, Washington, Hamilton, Ford or any of the thousands of high profile White Americans throughout history that made America the White Super Power that is once was.

        4. Name one time in history any nation ever united itself under the idea that the color of it’s peoples skin made it superior to another nation

        5. Just because ‘white’ is used as shorthand for ‘caucasian’ doesn’t make matters of race only skin deep. There are thousands of genes with racially aligned distributions including many involving things as disparate as the central nervous system, endocrine system, musculature, and skeletal system. In fact having common ancestry has been the single greatest unifying atttribute in human history, with race simply being the next widest kinship grouping after family, clan, tribe. Japanese most certainly have a unified ethnostate and it makes no difference whether they call themselves ‘Japanese’ or ‘down slant eyed ones’ just as it makes no difference whether we call ourselves ‘white’ or ‘Caucasian’ (either way we’re talking about the subspecies of humans that evolved in Europe after the admixture with the Neanderthals and not just a skin color.)

    4. I always liked that GamerGate and Alt-Right were, by and large, full of people with a common interest and goal. I’ve seen hundreds of divisions and fights in both communities, and most of the participants still hate each other for some reason, but most of their “followers” still follow and laugh about both sides.
      Centralization is destructive. Infighting is destructive. Both are inherent when a “movement” decides it’s a group.

    5. I said this early and often, members of RoK should not call themselves Alt. Right members. If you agree with everything they say great. If you don’t all the more reason to separate yourselves. The minute all movements get big, all sorts of cowards and faggots show up to stake claim to the new strength of said group. These same people exclaiming the strength of the group will sell you out for a line of coke and a few nickels if the opportunity arises.

        1. but we need labels, we need a movement, and we need some sort of branding if we are going to ever spearhead into anything close to mainstream discourse

        2. That’s intentional for an offensive campaign of persuasion.
          The point is that you should try to separate yourself from them personally.

        3. The way I perceive it is the alt right represents the only ideology that can save the west. So I won’t separate myself from them.

    6. “Nazi cosplayers”, what a convenient slur to avoid mentioning what’s really going on.
      Mike Cernovich is an opportunist hoping to make money from Trump’s rise. He was doxxed as the writer of is Danger & Play website and probably hasn’t been able to work as a lawyer since. He’s been selling juicers online and his two self-help books – but his main income comes from taking alimony from his ex-wife. He won’t marry his new Iranian girlfriend with whom he has a baby, because then he’d lose his alimony. Some “conservative leader”.
      Mike Cernovich called himself alt-Right when it was more popular. Now he smears the alt-Right and claims he never called himself part of it. Sorry Mike, your tweets remain. He is a very nasty person who has no trouble using lies to promote whatever he is selling for the moment.
      Bill Mitchell is a cuckservative, except that he attached himself to Trump early on. He tweeted against Mexican immigration but then deleted the tweets, and now smears those who criticize Mexicans as “racists” and “Nazis”. His style on Twitter is extremely feminine, constantly gushing over every single thing Trump does and adding smileys to everything – it’s really cringe-worthy. He made himself a name by claiming to have been a local Trump operative, in charge of his state’s media. This was a lie. He was never part of the campaign. He gets donations from followers, and uses it to buy rings for other men – they have shown this by thanking him online. He has had plastic surgery and dyes his hair, and has no children. So you figure out what he is.
      As a Trump campaigner has said, to the extent anyone in the Trump campaign knows about Bill Mitchell, they know him as a clown. He is really embarrassing, just go read his tweets. Now he has fanatically tweeted smears against the alt-Right every day for two weeks straight, dozens of tweets a day. This is not normal behavior. He uses the Left’s talking points. He pretends that Trump’s avoidance of talking race (which he can’t do in politics) means a “true Trump supporter is anti-racist!” You get the idea.
      Paul Joseph Watson runs Alex Jones’ website Infowars, where he has pushed ideas like the universe being a computer similation (several times), and ancient Egyptian conspiracies shaping the world. Like Mike Cernovich and Bill Mitchell he never spoke out against immigration before Trump’s rise made it profitable. They are all opportunists. And now they find it convenient to attack “racists” in order to ingratiate themselves with the media. The media function as their allies – they are praised by The Daily Beast and The Hill.
      With Mike Cernovich getting money from homosexual Peter Thiel, through his operative Jeff Giesea, it is clear what is going on: These two homosexuals want to control the Trump following online and corral them in a “safe” direction, the way neocons did with conservatives before Trump. With all the media demonization Trump couldn’t win without mainstream allies, like Thiel, and Thiel exploits this. We will see if they will succeed. Of course, they have an ally in the left-wing extremist Jack who took over Twitter and is running it into the ground financially. He has banned all the major alt-Right names with huge followings, so that fake leaders like Cernovich will be able to control the discourse. It is no coincidence that individuals like Cernovich are allowed to remain on Twitter.

    7. TRS and 8cham having a “split” is a meme. 8chan has been completely compromised by antifa, and leftists. I recommend no one on the right having anything to do with that board.
      As for the rest of your post, the alt light are a bunch of pockets of cults of personalities. Failure to point this out means you are debating on bad faith. I also cringe at the advice of “not joining” anything. That is why the right has up until very recently absolutely failed at everything and the left has gobbled up power. Muh individuality always loses to collectivism and pooling of resources.
      In the end, people like Cernovich and PJW are useful in certain situations. However, ultimately they do not have the answers for the big questions, like the continued existence of the West, especially for White people. At best they are decent sources for information, at worst, they are simply ego driven ebook merchants.

    8. I agree you shouldn’t let your identity become too trapped in any movement, but joining up with like-minded individuals in movements is good. And I think RVF is a movement. You and I are stronger and more effective by virtue of our membership in the “RVF tribe” as AnonymousBosch put it. My participation in RVF helped me to define my own online identity as separate and distinct from the 1488 mob, particularly by debating (in public and in private) with RVF members who “lean” 1488. And sometimes the ban-hammer falls on members because they just don’t fit in and eventually lash out at the rest of us. I’ve seen this happen to at least one member I will decline to name here.

    9. Sure, but that’s true of any organized political entity. Any organized political entity is marked by infighting, acrimony & strategizing. Even a nation first starts out as a movement. I see your point philosophically but conflict often hardens a person’s identity & position. Being able to straddle the middle is a luxury & a luxury fleeting rapidly given the political climate.

  16. The so-called “alt-lite” consists mainly of posers and joiners.
    If they come to their senses, cool. If not, good riddance.

  17. Marxism is like the stinky goat in the tale that is put in the room, so people beg for any alternative in order to get rid of it.
    Marxism is only a tool to destroy traditional values and individual freedoms. After it is removed, you have a giant State and billionaires profiting from it. That’s the China model of the new world order.
    Trump and his Chabad Lubavitch family and Goldman Sachs cabinet will advance this agenda: libertarian crony capitalism for the elites and cultural Marxism to control the masses.
    It is better than pure Marxism, but this animal still stinks.
    The elite is behind both Marxism and libertarians, they only exchange pieces when it suits them. Cernovich is obviously a gatekeeper paid to cause agitation and inflame emotions. A con artist.
    What is important is that people stay distracted with these small issues so they never see the big picture.

    1. “libertarian crony capitalism for the elites and cultural Marxism to control the masses.”
      meet the new boss, same as the old boss

    2. Crony capitalism is by definition not libertarian. It’s like saying “atheist theist”. It makes no sense.
      But yes, crony capitalism for the elites and cultural Marxism to control the masses, that sounds about right.

    1. You know what it reminds me of:
      When I was young (maybe 14) I remember my sister (at the time 11) had some of her girlfirneds over. Like a lot of girls back then, and if you have sisters you might recall this, my sister and all her friends had photo albums filled with stickers that they collected. I clearly recall my sister and two of her friends getting into the most blood curdling, hair pulling, screaming fight over something regarding these stickers. The level of intensity was off the charts……I asked my sister a year or two ago what the fight was about. She has no recollection. That is, for the most part, how these two factions (and for that matter most factions) seem to me — a bunch of little girls fighting over stickers.

      1. Yes, which is a function of who they are to begin with.
        But, the politics are legit.
        Let me ask you a question. Not a JQ but a BQ.
        I wouldn’t ask anyone in here a GQ but at least NOW we know what THAT mag stands for! haha
        BQ- Black Question
        Did the Dems hurt their brand overall by at least not renouncing more fully #BLM
        If Bernie DID get the nomination, how BEATEN TO A PULP would he have been by Trump showing him ceding the stage to those 2….TWO!! #BLM beeches.
        Same here. The haters of da Joooooooze will always exist. We just don’t want ANYTHING to do with them.
        We have been PURGIN those VIRGINS and will continue.
        Enjoy Trump from the outside….WAY outside! We’ll USE you for your VOTE in 4 years. haha

        1. For some reason I am in the mood for Dairy Queen. I think you are barking up the wrong tree asking me these questions. I honestly don’t care enough about either side to spit on them if they were on fire.

        2. Just out of curiosity, are you capable of making 84,000/year doing this? Cause that would be excellent. Can you tell me how?

  18. You’re trying too hard. I’m guessing troll account because you’re either bored or you’re jobless.

    1. You’re trying too hard!!
      ….He says in his 666th comment to me! haha
      Too easy.

      1. I’ve made 666 comments to you?
        I haven’t even seen you until today.
        Drama much, troll?

        1. I think you were insinuating something. 666 isn’t really a number that suggests ‘many’, unless you mean ‘legion’.

        2. Don’t worry son. Those devils that oppress you don’t really exist!
          Someone get the exorcist.
          This place is CRAWLING with Demonic activity!

        3. You’re projecting. You said something which makes no sense, and now you can’t or won’t explain it. It’s possible thought that everything you say is simply random, beyond a few running themes

        4. Well, if demons were lemons you’d be perfect in new improved…wait for it…PLEDGE.

      1. Wait….it likes to troll, it’s doing a 180 on every meme possible in a way that’s meant to discredit the 180…
        Is it….
        Could it be….?
        Can we possible be seeing FatherofThree in drag?

  19. Vox Day, Milo, Cernovitch….a self-described Indian / Mexican who lives in Italy, a degenerate homo, and a mixed race married, profit-maximizing self-help guru….
    It’s a bit much to expect this group to be patriotic defenders of Americans (actual Americans, not propositional Americans). I’m a long time VD reader so it saddens me to say that this looks very much like a co-opt in the making.

    1. Milo was always an obvious co-opt, brought to us by staunchly zionist Breitbart. The others took a little longer to figure out, but if you have high awareness, it was obvious years ago.

      1. Vox Day has been saying for years that he is part Mexican and Indian.
        How much more obvious can you get?

    1. Gayness stems from men not knowing how to deal with a woman. It is no surprise that the number of gays has risen along with feminism.

      1. Interesting. So taking that point to it’s logical origin, would it be fair to conjecture that gays are likely caused by their own inability to deal with the first woman in their lives, their mother, in a rational sense?
        The one tried and true “been gay since elementary school” dude I’ve known since I was in 3rd grade had *huge* issues with a very strange, almost absentee at times yet physically abusive at other times mother.

        1. I never could buy the idea that they find men attractive over a woman. I knew a kid just like you described. Abusive mother, no father. Through grade school, we all wondered about him, then when he went to college, our doubts were confirmed. I think a lot of guys just give up trying to deal with women in a sexual way, but still have the drive. Others try the MGTOW path.

      1. It’s not surprising, he is a cryptokike.
        Every kike is either pedophilic, a sodomite or gay.

    2. ewwww
      I don’t even want to imagine what THAT guys beard looked like on the way back to the hotel.

      1. And that strategy is fully nullified. There are no closets big enough for people to hide in any longer.

    3. (((Paul Jewseph Cockson)))
      Wow, with Jewnopolous and Jewseph Cockson being gay 50% of Alt-Kike leaders are gay.
      Very disgusting.

  20. I never understood nazism in this day and age. There is no way you could muster up enough nationalism to come remotely close to what they did in Europe so why do you think it would work in the states? Hitler took a leap and tried to see what it was like to be the Roman empire for 4 years and failed

    1. Correct. Further, the United States has no ethnic tie between citizens to even give it a go if they wanted to. We are held together by common values not by ethnic heritage. Fight for the values….great. But the idea of making the US an ethno state is just plain dumb

      1. So what do you do with other people who DO act as a solid ethnic group in order to continually undermine the majority? What do you do with ethic enclaves who refuse to assimilate into the dominant culture? You just live and let live, and allow them to slowly usurp your country by exploiting pathological altruism of Whites? I’m genuinely curious if you have a sensible answer to this.

        1. I don’t think non assimilation ought to be an option in this country and I am fine if you want to say that people who try to recreate Pakistan in a 6 block radius need to either get the fuck over their culture or go back to it. I have no issue with that. You simply can’t have religious assimilation or ethnic assimilation. What you can have is value assimilation. I won’t go out and say I have the answer. It is a really difficult question with a million nuances of which I understand only a small part. But if you imagine that “whites” actually means something in America than I do believe you are misguided.

        2. “pathological altruism of Whites”
          It’s insane how self destructive we are. Thanks for pointing this out. Your comment was spot-on in all regards.

        3. Well, thanks for the answer. I agree with the most part, except for your last sentence of course. I believe that values/culture and race/religion are intrinsically linked, and that one follows from the other. But hey we all have different ideas.

        4. They may very well be, but there is no ethnic or religious grounding in the united states. That is kind of the whole point right? We are grounded by the beliefs found in our formative documents like the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. If a muslim or a jew or a norweigen or a Mexican wants to come to this country (legally) and adopt an American, capitalistic value system based on the core ideals of the founding of this nation then where they come from and how they worship privately is no one’s business — least of all the government’s.

        5. I really like the “melting pot” analogy. We are American first. What is happening, however is not that. Through “celebrate diversity” our nation has been splitting into different factions, each proud of their own heritage, faults and all. Take the Mexicans for instance, liberals want them to come here and live among us, but keep all of their culture. That is where the conflict arises. They are not forced to learn English, their crime rates are excused, they are allowed to live on the dole, etc…. To hell with that. Let SOME come in but not the flood that is too much to incorporate like we presently have. Do serious background checks and testing. Only let the best in. I enjoy some of their culture (food, goofy wrestling, strong families), but not all of it. If they come in small numbers and we only let the best in, they will assimilate, and we can take some from them.

        6. well said. Celebrate Diversity was “look at these Italians/Pakistanis/Russians whatever who want to come here and be an American, speak English and be part of our culture. we must be really great!” and not “hey look at those pakis who don’t speak a word of English, live in a small enclave and are hostile and even violent to anyone who comes near them! Isn’t it awesome the way they pray for our death”

        7. I think that you’re both right in a sense. We are a nation of ideas, that’s the forge we were made upon. It’s what keeps us together. But we do have sizable ethnic enclaves all over the land. Appalachia is basically half of Ireland and Scotland plopped onto North America, and their language is still antique to the point that linguists now flock there to study them. A central swath of the midwest is predominantly German (or Germanic if you want to include Minnesota and the Dakotas, where they’re mostly of Scandi descent). I mean we still celebrate Oktoberfest here where I’m at, and have since Columbus was a small mud hole with no roads and had only horse traffic (in other words, since last week). It’s not hard to build a case that one could raise a rather sizable amount of ethnic-pride thing in white people if one appeals to the particular area’s unique “white demographic”.
          That being said, I’d much prefer the “make them American” idea you have, and which America had until the 1960’s. You want to come here from anywhere in the world, great, but you have to adapt to our system, you have to be tested on our values and our Constitution and you best damned well not try to invent a whole new country inside of us (as some Muslims are trying to do).

        8. This seems exactly right to me. BTW we celebrate octoberfest here too and I am pretty sure Columbus still is a…..nah, day one of IF I will troll tomorrow.
          Really though, even later than the 1960’s and in fact some are still doing this today. I’ve mentioned my paki receptionist. She came here young. Zero accent. Went to school, got herself a husband, got a job, secular muslim (she would sell Mohamed down the river for a 5 dollar an hour raise). She (and her whole family whom I have met) are the embodiment of what it means to be a good immigrant. Come here legally, assimilate, work your ass off, contribute and make a life for yourself a million times better than where you came from. That my family at some point 200 years ago was either in german or Italy and that her family only 35 years ago was in Lahore doesn’t make a difference.

        9. Right – and ‘melting pot’ doesn’t mean ‘average of all the parts’. In any melting pot, some things will rise, some will fall some will evaporate.

        10. Sure but where the disagreement usually comes in is between people who recognize that the founders set out to create an explicit White Christian nation (it’s talked about throughout those documents you mention) versus ppl who say fuck the founders, this piece of dirt belongs to everyone and no one at the same time, because…muh feelz.
          Predictably, people like me who come from White Protestant families that have been forging their way in this country since the 1600s, take issue with being told that everything Whites built needs to be handed over to newcomers.
          I don’t go to Japan and expect to benefit from all the work they did to build their country. They wouldn’t allow me to anyway.
          Do I want to purge all non-Whites and force everyone to be Christians? Of course not.
          But do I need to tolerate people who are openly hostile, openly hate Whites, and openly brag about taking everything they can get from naive Whites? Nope. If it were up to me I’d let them stay but I would cut off all government assistance to them. And Castle Doctrine/Stand Your Ground would be the law of the land.
          Go ahead and be a fuckup, go ahead and hate Whites, and the second you step to me and try to take what’s mine, you get a bullet.
          Not very complicated, to me anyway.

        11. Yeah, I almost balked at putting Oktoberfest in, since I know it’s around in a lot of states. I should have mentioned the small towns in Ohio that spoke German as the official language of business and government up to and past World War 2 instead to make that specific point. Heh.

        12. It sounds nice, but in practice, look what happened. We have White Nationalists, La Raza, Radical Islam, and Black Lives Matter all competing to destroy the others and emerge as dominant. Multiculturalism has failed everywhere it’s been tried, because of men’s natural urge to compete rather than cooperate.
          Diversity + Proximity = War (eventually)

        13. Some things here we agree on too. The White Christian values of the founders is not something I would put up for debate. Even the deists were products of white Christian values. That said, they made it very clear that the government needs to stay the hell out of an individuals right to worship as they chose. Yes, you can argue that they probably thought of this as various types of Protestantism and maybe Catholicism and maybe even the jews but the idea that there would be religions openly hostile the the nation probably didn’t cross there mind. This is the first part I find difficulty and complication. I will say right off I don’t have an answer. I like living in a nation where the government doesn’t get to say shit about what goes on in a persons head and how or even if he worships god. That is a very, very, very, very good thing. But there are issues which are obvious and don’t even need laying out. I don’t know a sensible way to deal with the problems while retaining value of keeping the government out of our heads. If you have a workable, sensible way to resolve this problem that is great.
          As for the issue about people saying everything white has to come down we can leave that to the side. We both agree that that is bullshit. I don’t need some indian (dots or feathers) telling me that they have a moral superiority based on their being a minority. That is total fucking bullshit. So lets just say with this we agree and move on.
          You have a white protestant family that has been here since the 1600’s. I have a white catholic family which has been here since the 1800’s. I am very fair skin, brown/blonde hair with blue eyes. Do we have some kind of continuity, you and I, as being white? We share no blood the way that two Irishmen, regardless of where in the world they are, do. We don’t share a religion (even if I was religious). What we have is that we are American. If we piss on what it means to be American because it has been abused we will break the one link we have to one another. We will throw the baby out with the bathwater. We both agree there is a problem though and that is a start. I spoke to @ghostofjefferson about this the other day. The world was better when the left and the right both agreed on what the problems were and simply had different ideas on how to solve them. Whether they were right or wrong, everyone was on the same team. That is a very good thing.
          Again, I agree. Tolerating people who are openly anti-American or openly anti-white is not something that anyone should do. That is a load of bs. But lets assume that dumping them in a ditch and murdering them all is both impractical and immoral….how do we deal with the problem? You want to cut off GOV’T assistance. I have never voted in my life, but put that on a ballot and I will register. I am all for it. Fuck, with very minor exceptions I am pretty much for cutting all government assistance to everyone but you want to line up non assimilating cunts and people who are openly hostile to America first…sure…lets do it.
          I am also fine with stand your ground. It is more difficult in a place like where I live because population density is such that you are really relying on a lot of people, I mean a lot of people, I mean nearly 200 thousand people per square mile, to not be fucking insane. I am all for stand your ground, but someone would need to explain how that works in a densely populated and ethnically diverse city where there is a massive gulf between the haves and the have nots.
          I believe you…it really isn’t that complicated conceptually…all of it…and we agree on a lot of things which I am glad to see. That said, putting everything into practice without trampling on the very rights and values that hold us together in a workable and doable (not a how I wish the world was perfect) way is kind of complicated…too complicated for me, but I am willing to listen.

        14. I agree, but it has to be in moderation. Once you tip past the 15% mark of minorities, things start rapidly deteriorating. If we could have a country that was 85% White, and the rest were ‘best and brightest’ from all over the world, I’d be ecstatic.

        15. Agreed, the flood of immigration is the cause. If foreigners are allowed to come in at a rate that they don’t have to assimilate, La Raza happens. In the 1800’s, we had race riots with the Irish. 150 years later, we cant even tell if they are Irish, unless they go to Catholic church.

        16. Quite right. It’s time to restrict, if not completely cut off immigration. There are too many people coming in and there hasn’t been enough time for things to adjust.

        17. Well, look, we both tend to be dicks sometimes, but I can’t find anything in that which I disagree with. I guess something has been accomplished here today, ironically in a thread about the breakup of the ‘sphere. Lol.

        18. ” Once you tip past the 15% mark of minorities”
          Let me ask you one question. Am I a minority? I am 5th gen on my mothers side but if you dig far enough back her family is from northern Italy. I am 5th gen on my fathers side and if you dig back his family is from the border of Germany and France near Alcase though too many generations of no one giving a shit has made it so we don’t remember.
          I am much closer to my mothers family and do holidays etc with them. There was a time, right here in new York, where they found it hard to get jobs outside of brick laying and sanitation because they were seen as WOPS so they moved upstate ny to what were then grape farms and what are now apple farms.
          So am I white?

        19. One problem I have-Muslims who come in AND THEN institute Sharia courts in their neighborhoods. That should should be controlled and rooted out and exposed and shut the fuck down.

        20. Well said. The question remaining is how do we deal with people who are knowingly hostile to American ideology? On the one hand, if you do the tyrant thing and run them out, you are stepping on the rights of citizens. If you just lay over and just let them do whatever, then disasters happen like 9/11. Our government decided to take the half-assed approach. Step on the rights of citizens and go to war, yet still allow nearly unhampered immigration.
          How about build the fence, investigate suspects, but not impose restrictions on the bulk of the people? Personally, I value freedom over safety.

        21. I really don’t know the answer to the question. I know that any power we give the government to do things like build a fence, even if it is for the right reasons, will be something that some future government will eventually use to fuck us in the ass.

        22. Wasn’t it Reagan that signed the amnesty bill that had a provision to install a fence along the southern border? Seems like they forgot someting

        23. I have no idea. GOJ would be better equipped to answer this one.

        24. Yes. It was Amnesty Version 1.0, and naturally, the amnesty happened “immediately” and of course, the Dems cooed, the Fence would come “afterward” with no real definition of Afterward. Reagan took it in the shorts hard for that, and is still called out on it by even far right types. And did those new Dreamers line up at the poll and say “Gosh, let’s vote American values! Let’s vote right wing, instead of for these hippies who hate us”? Nope. They went rank and file to the Democrats, like all good little pet minorities do. It was a serious piece of fuck up on Reagan’s part.

        25. The notion of “white” as a single identity is a very new thing. Even when the KKK was out acting fools, their version of “white” was WASP, German and maybe, some Scots (but not Irish, oh no, not them).
          By today’s standards you are definitely white. No question. Unassailable. In 1943? You would be a WOP with some Kraut in him, and likely shifty, oily and not to be trusted.

        26. That was the world I more or less grew up in. It didn’t suck.
          I’m for a full moratorium on immigration for a solid fifty years. No hordes of people “yearning to be free”, fuck, not even the “best and brightest”. A full dead stop in the middle of the tracks. Then we sort things out, get the Muslim thing controlled or, frankly, “dealt with”, and then have a few decades of recovery. Personally I’d also repeal that 1965 monstrosity that Ted Kennedy was the front man for (but interestingly enough, not the actual writer/sponsor). I don’t want hordes of uneducated idiots flooding in and voting socialist and saying “Fuck you Gringo! Fuck you! Somos La Raza! Si se puede!”
          If and when we go back to immigration, it should be tightly controlled, with a means test like used to exist (so you won’t be a burden on the public weal) and with a sponsor who will cover for you if you go out of a job. And you have to be willing to be literate in English within 5 years of arrival and by 10 if you haven’t gotten your citizenship papers (with test on the Constitution mandated), then kick your ass out and your kids too, fuck if they were born here.

        27. That is what I figured. I really think that if there is going to be a national identity for americans it has to be value based and not race or religion based or we will never get to first base.

        28. I would answer “of course” while acknowledging that some other screwballs like to debate this. I consider all Europeans to be “white” including Italians and my own Scots-Irish stock, who were also seen as lessers in early NY. I love Italians, they are awesome. I am not into fine details about who is White and who is not. If you look White, act Whitish, and don’t hate on Whites, you are White in my book. If you are a minority but you are supportive of White culture, and an active participant in improving our nation, I have no problem as well. It’s all these hostiles who get me pissed off.
          When people start talking about haplogroups and genetics I tune out. Purism is retarded.
          However I will make an exception as you well know: I don’t consider Jews to be White. The primary reason for this is that I believe they act in their own group interests rather than in the interests of Whites as a whole.
          Edit: Also most Jews I know do not consider themselves White, and get offended at the suggestion. So, fine, I don’t consider them White.

        29. “not. If you look White, act Whitish, and don’t hate on Whites, you are White in my book. ”
          Oddly enough, I agree with this. If it looks white and acts white it is white. This is simple to you and to me, but when trying to codify it as policy it gets trickier which is why the US can’t be an ethnic derived nation but rather a value derived nation. The trick is to get from your statement which I quoted, a statement that does make sense, to general and codified policy is almost impossible without fucking it up somehow ya know. Again, I don’t have a solution, but recognizing that there is a problem is the start.
          You and I don’t share the same feelings on Jews. That said, its been a nice day and no one agrees on everything so lets just leave that one to the side for the nonce.

        30. You’re right, it is a tricky problem. Many good minds are debating this issue right now because there’s no easy answer. Honestly, like I said earlier, I don’t object to sharing the country with other groups. But if they hate the dominant group and/or demand financial support from them, that’s where my charity ends.

        31. In this thread you’ve been mentioning that many in the comments section are essentially “following the herd” on the alt-right thing. For some reason I’m wondering if you’re throwing me into that group.
          Keep in mind two things. (1) I’m Canadian, and there is currently no Canadian identity/values (other than tolerance and multiculturalism) that newcomers are expected to assimilate to. And (2) I am mostly concerned with Europe having control over itself. I don’t think it is the place of bureaucrats and bankers to push Europeans to drop their borders out of a sense of historical guilt. I don’t want to have to look at my kids someday and tell them that they don’t have a homeland because it was politically incorrect.
          I disagree with the academy and media legitimizing the idea that Europeans are expendable while all other ethnic groups deserve to have countries and racial identities without question.
          It would bother me a bit if you think I’m just following trends so I’d rather just know. But I don’t claim to have all the answers, and I do think I’m trying to follow my own thought process.

        32. Actually Clark I wouldn’t put you in that category based on our back and forth over the last year or so. Not everyone who believes x is following the herd even if the herd does believe x.
          My issue isn’t with “x” it is with the underlying mentality that requires one to hide in a crowd if that makes any sense

        33. Makes sense to me.
          Reminds me of earlier this year when I went to a BLM rally to ask questions, and a few of the protestors had no idea what the rally was even about.

        34. I feel that your experience at a BLM rally would be inductive of most rally’s be they alt right, feminism, white nationalism. People have some pathelogical weakness where they need to belong to a group. The fact that some of them happen to be in a group which has principles you agree with shouldn’t give them a free pass. I can recognize a persons opinion if it is sincere even where I disagree and at the same time find knee jerk reactionaries who are succumbing to herd mentality pathetic even if I wind up agreeing with them

        35. You certainly don’t buckle to their wishes and remove pork from restaurants etc. Stop the enclave spreading? It’s not just pathological altruism, it’s also that these groups have each got their own strong ideologies they are following, but whites nowadays have somehow had theirs dissolved, although something new might be reforming with Trump etc.

        36. The alt-right will have success in its goals and bring this problem under control if it can initially work within the current zeitgeist and be a bit smarter about it..

        37. I agree.
          And I find the alt-right thing interesting from a broader sociological point of view, but it’s the results that I ultimately care about.
          I’m still trying to make sense of my opinions about race to be honest. Right now it’s a gut reaction that I’m still formulating into words because who I associate with in the real world is based on character and common interests more than anything. I actually have very few true blood Italian friends outside of family. But I’m still attached to my heritage for some reason.

      2. That’s true on the macro scale. On the regional scale it could happen, but we’d devolve back into city states more or less. A thousand little city states, with maybe Wyoming and Idaho remaining “large states” since they’re all basically the same people with almost no “diversity” outside of a few beat tired Injuns.

        1. Right, no doubt you are right. But so long as we see ourselves as a United States of America we should, I think, look to see ourselves as connected by ideology rather than ethnicity. The ideology found in the Bill of Rights is a good place to start. The idea that we could be a united states of America tied together by some ethnic connection is just wrong and silly even if you could have smaller city states than are.

        2. Nothing wrong with that. Wyoming is where I want Heaven to be located when I pass away.

        3. Agreed ideology is much stronger than ethnicity. My ethnicity is nearly all German, my Grandpa fought against them in WW2.

        4. Well sure, clearly.
          The fly in the ointment is that the Left has deconstructed the ideals of the Enlightenment and Age of Reason, and by proxy the Founding ideals of these united States, to such a degree that I honestly wonder if many people even have more than a vague understanding of what it even means to be an American any longer.
          This is why ethnic appeals are gaining ground more and more I think. The Left has nearly eviscerated our entire ideological heritage and replaced it with atomist navel gazing and self hatred.

        5. I am predisposed to agree with you and in many ways it looks that way. But I wonder: They seem to have done this amongst themselves but do you personally know anyone like this? I don’t. Not a single person. Like the way gays are over represented in the movies, I wonder if people who actually buy into this bullshit are massively over represented in the media. If so, it is a good thing. The extremists, like they always do, will eventually implode and eat one another (for the homos maybe literally) and people who are reasonable will triumph. I think. Maybe Trump winning (though I think he is a total buffoon) is a good start as it signals something good about the American people. Look at you and I. We are ideologically different in more ways than I can count, but at the same time have very similar core values. This isn’t an accident. This is what ties us together and makes us americans. I really would like to think there is more of that out there than there is of the other stuff. If I am wrong then I hope I am long dead before I have to see it.

        6. btw wouldn’t a fly in ointment be easy to get rid of? Wouldn’t it be worse to be a fly in the car or a fly in the bedroom?

        7. There’s also the factor that identity politics and in-group preferencing, like warfare, is a game that only one side has to play to gain advantage, and if no-one else plays, they lose.

        1. I don’t know if that is true. I think that Americans share certain common values. There are the whackadoodles who are totally nuts of course but on average I think there is a bond

        2. We share no common values. America is a cautionary tale that makes it quite clear egalitarianism, and multiculturalism is a failure. Wen it was White and a patriarchy it was strong, now it is running on fumes.
          If it wasn’t a mess neither of us would be posting on a site like this. It wouldn’t exist….

        3. I honestly don’t think it is as much of a mess as you do. Certainly there are problems but everything has problems. The insanity going on now seems to me to be something that happens in very small amounts and then is obsessed over on the internet. All in all I think we are doing just fine with s very small, single digit, percentage of absolute lunatics which seems more than it is because people chose to obsess over it.

        4. Haha, yea right. The US was, and I use the word was, on purpose, the single greatest power in human history. The decline is apparent and pronounced. The reasons are very obvious. The lessons learned will be easy to catalog.

        5. It’s a great world out there filled with opportunity and wonder. Your pessimism is as big or bigger of a problem than anything else facing the United States

        6. it is a wonderful world out there filled with opportunity and beauty. I really believe your pessimism is as great a problem, probably greater, than anything else out there

        7. You are naive then. The purpose of our very existence is a struggle for survival. How you can visit this blog and not understand that is unfathomable.

        8. The things you assume you know are really something. The Essence of mankind, the well being of the nation, the problems facing the world, where these problems will lead, the solutions to them, the reasons behind them…this is all stuff you picked up from blogs. Do you realize that that is totally fucking insane?
          If you are seriously able to look out at the US today and see nothing but doom and gloom then I would suggest you have serious issues which you ought to address before you wind up as a self fulfilling prophecy, bereft of joy and missing all the great things the world has to offer.
          Your definition of “naive” is that I don’t believe the same things you do. That is dangerously close to the pathology that leads to feminism. It is literally one step away from you saying “you don’t agree with me and with all the blogs I like so you are an evil, patriarchical, toxic masculine, cis scum”

        9. Yea, I am the one who has a problem for pointing out the obvious problems of the modern US. Problems that are easily understandable through basic statistics and polling. Does every Jew think they are a psychologist?

        10. You are the one with a problem because you read some blogs, they speak to you and then you see the world filtered through them.
          I don’t know what Jews think. I don’t know what psychologists think. I do know, however, that group think and the idea what whites or blacks or Jews or eskimos speak with one voice along with the need to be categorized into a representivie group is a sad weakness what you find in people who can’t muster the courage and strength to fend for themselves — like SJWs or Feminists.
          I have considered your view point. I have thought long and hard about it. I have found it, ultimately, wrong. I wonder why so many people ascribe to such wrong ideas, make so many bad assumptions, think with such poisoned minds and I can only answer that they do it from pathological fear and weakness.
          Look at how many assumptions you are making. You assume the world is bad. You assume you know the reason why. You assume your superiority based on factors you had nothing to do with. You assume you have the solution. You assume you know who is causing the problems. You assume I am a Jew. You assume all Jews think, speak and act alike.
          You are wrong about every single thing you think.
          I am not a psychologist but I know fear and trembling when I see it. You can’t imagine a world in which you are wrong about all of this, it terrifies you. You would be so lost and alone. Because of this impotence and fear you double down.
          I am telling you now that this is sad, pathetic and effeminate behavior. Your behavior is the reason this country is in such a mess. The blacks have it (BLM) women have it (feminists) the faggots and the creeps have it (SJWs) and just like them, you have it.
          I hope for your sake and for the sake of this country you and people like you eventually grow up. Fortunately you are enough of a minority not to do any real damage and mostly just sit around and cosplay meaningful people while the rest of us build world. But for your own sake you should try being a man.

        11. The US is declining economically, socially, and academically. I do not have a problem for pointing this out, lol. Your ideals are going to lose.

        12. Ok buck. You just stick to the winning side then and keep reading the blogs that agree with you. I’ll just be out here living a terrific life, being happy, successful and fulfilled — you know “losing”
          I hope for your sake that one day you find it in you to grow out of this little phase your in and come and participate in the world.
          Have a great day friend

    2. Nazism was about *way* more than nationalism of course. Something a lot of Europeans seemed to have forgotten. Now if you hoist your nations flag on your porch you’re basically shouted down as a Nazi. It’s silly.

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