The Underreported Epidemic Of Firefighter Suicide

Every now and then you come across a story that cries out for more recognition.  I recently had that feeling when I began to read more about the epidemic of firefighter suicides, which is part of the larger problem of untreated firefighter PTSD and depression nationwide.  Like many traditionally masculine professions, firefighters and their health problems do not get the same level of attention from the media that is devoted to female, child, and reproductive health issues.

But by any standard, there is a serious problem with untreated depression and suicide among firefighters.  The public does not often realize that firefighters deal with the absolute worst kinds of situations every day:  the job is not just about putting out fires.  They deal with gruesome car accidents, shootings, drownings, and all manner of human catastrophes.  Former firefighter Jeff Dill, who runs the Firefighter Behavioral Health Alliance, believes that in 2014 alone, the total number of firefighters who committed suicide nationwide stood at about 350.

They are three times more likely to die by suicide than in the performance of their jobs.  The problem is somewhat similar to the issues facing military veterans.  But where the military has a relatively extensive and established support system to deal with PTSD issues (the Veterans’ Administration has gotten much better since the 1990s), firefighters have little or nothing.

When I say “stood at about” I mean that we actually don’t know what the real number is.  At the time of writing, there is no national database to track firefighter suicides.  Why?  Because—and I was not that surprised to find this out—the federal government is not interested in keeping track of this data.  It is not important enough for them to make the effort.  What other explanation could possibly suffice?  The National Fallen Firefighters Foundation (NFFF) was created in the 1990s, and one would think that this would be the organization to track this sort of information.  But it is just another one of Congress’s unfunded mandates; they do not have a budget.  The NFFF handles public relations issues like memorials for fallen firefighters, but they do not recognize firefighter suicides.  According to Jeff Dill, only about 30 percent of such suicides are even reported to any agency.

What does this tell us?  It tells us that society does not consider such information important.  We can see it as part of the current social trends that seek to devalue, denigrate, or ignore legitimate male health issues.  Firefighters, policemen, factory workers, fishermen, lumberjacks, cooks, cab drivers, and a hundred other traditionally male occupations suffer in silence, their legitimate voices ignored or suppressed in favor of other “health priorities.”  There still is a pervasive stigma in talking about the depression and mental health issues of firemen (am I even allowed to use the word “fireman” any more?).  Many such deaths are classified by their own departments as “deaths in the line of duty” or put into the “other” category.

Part of the problem may also be due to the tight nature of the firefighter profession.  Even when they do try to get help from mental health professionals, they quickly realize that the “counselor” may not be familiar (or want to become familiar) with their terminology, occupational hazards, or organizational culture.  So they may abandon treatment after a few sessions.  Many firefighters may not wish to talk to their peers about their anxiety and depression, for fear of appearing unstable and not “up to the job.” So problems fester without resolution.  Problems are “treated” with a combination of alcohol, gambling, or other forms of high-risk behavior.  Guilt can also factor into the equation.  Some commanders simply cannot deal with losing men on the job.  Jeff Dill, in one of his interviews, talked about an incident where an officer left behind a suicide note explaining that he could not deal with the loss of two men that happened under his command.

What can be done to solve the problem?  The first step needs to be governmental recognition of the problem.  Just as reproductive health and women’s health issues are given lavish attention by the media, there need to be at least some financial resources focused on the firefighter suicide problem.  Firemen don’t ask for much, but they do deserve recognition for their sacrifices.  Of all the billions of dollars doled out by the federal government to big business, defense contractors, and hundreds of other special interest groups, could it not find a tiny bit of funding for those who protect local communities?

It all comes down to priorities.  And by deciding who to fund and who to defund, governments tell their people what they value and who they value.  With some funding, local firefighters could establish better employee assistance programs, set up psychological counseling networks, look into chaplaincy programs.  Firefighting schools could also devote more time to teaching students how to deal with the psychological pressures of the job.  For too long, the public has been led to believe that “supporting” firefighters consists of watching myth-making movies about them, wearing their t-shirts, and then walking away and doing nothing else.  Such token public relations gestures do nothing to solve the real problems of mental health and suicide prevention:  what is needed is allocation of governmental resources and the taking of real action.

Read More: The Rising Epidemic Of Men Falsely Claiming To Be Veterans

133 thoughts on “The Underreported Epidemic Of Firefighter Suicide”

  1. I’m starting to think there’s just no way we’ll ever have any kind of corporate support. Even though International Men’s Day is/was ostensibly about male suicide, it inevitably becomes about how male suffering doesn’t matter by comparison to the suffering of X.
    So, screw it, I’ll do what I can and ask you to do the same.

      1. That’s actually correct, that is the term for the guy shoveling the coal.

  2. “Of all the billions of dollars doled out by the federal government to big business, defense contractors, and hundreds of other special interest groups, could it not find a tiny bit of funding for those who protect local communities?”
    No. And most of those other things shouldn’t be funded either. You can’t be for small government except when it’s one of your pet causes.

    1. This reminds me of the crude Soviet style propagandistic film “Capitalism: A Love Story” by Michael Moore where he went on and on about how regional airlines paid their pilots peanuts.
      Aside from a safety issue, this is a legitimate (local) free market supply and demand situation. A lot of men want to be pilots so the regional airlines get away with paying them little. Same with stewardesses. Ironically, as the airlines started to retain older stewardesses their rates shot down since there was a greater supply of them (after all, they would want them to quit so they can hire a prettier, younger woman.)
      Another field that’s full of talent that can be paid less: actors. In the film: “That guy who was in that thing”, the numbers are run: several thousands of men (and even more women) chasing after a few hundred castable parts per year and it keeps getting worse.
      Anyhoo, where was I? About 1 out of 10 boys dream of growing up to be a firefighter and are into the thrills. Chicks dig ’em. Some regions don’t even pay them and simply rely upon a volunteer brigade. It’s awful, but true.

      1. That would be my region, lol. My township has a volunteer fire department, as does my mother’s in the next township over. I have no complaints.

      2. In my yoot, I had a very strong desire to become a forest ranger. Being quite serious, and I still have these little fleeting moments where I think “What if”. But at a certain age, I think 17 or so, my grandfather asked me “So son, how are you going to pay your way through life? Rangers make $17,000 a year and not much more for the rest of their lives. You think you can live on that? You think you can raise a family on that? How will you pay for your schooling to become one?”
        At the time, it was what they made, and even then (circa 230 B.C.) it wasn’t a respectable salary. I was so caught up in the romanticism of living out in the woods, driving a 4×4 (back when they were actually rugged and masculine), doing fire watch on a tower as the first line of defense against a forest fire and generally spending my days in a blissful, warm, always sunny nature and having my days off spent hunting with my buddies, that I’d completely not given the actual earning potential a thought.
        So you know what I did? I said “I think that I probably am not looking at this rationally” and I made life adjustments away from that career path.
        Perhaps then, before becoming any kind of high risk, or low pay profession, people should instead look at the full picture, fuck the notion of “Do what you love” which is bullshit on every front except for the few exceptionally talented people in the world, and get a realistic grip on life, the universe and everything.

        1. I tell my Ukrainian wife that it’s a tragedy that the Ukrainians don’t take advantage of the significant tourism and hunting money they could make from creating firearms rights and hunting. There are vast forests in Ukraine filled with wild boar and deer that would be a paradise for adventure starved Brits and Germans to reconnect with their masculinity. She retorted: “Well, then the mafia would have guns!” to which I said: “Er, they already have them, don’t they??!?” 🙂
          My wife loves Life Below Zero where alternative Alaskan lifestyles are explored such as a former New Yorker who decided to become a hermit for the rest of his natural life. I’m thinking that there’s also entrepreneurial money to be made there: Set up a cabin with one of those guys as groundskeeper and fly in tourists to go hunting and fishing. Of course, they’re already doing this. I wonder if folks in red stater Alabama, Arkansas, etc. have figured out how to make websites in German to get folks to come from there to go deer hunting.
          I do believe in doing “what you love” makes sense provided there’s a living in it because otherwise one can burn out fast. My wife complains I’m “addicted” to computers, but it’s my living. So that’s not a bad thing. Same with auto repair, construction, etc. Those guys are into their craft and it helps pay off.

        2. Great idea …get gun deprived Euros to get their gun fix by coming to the USA…

        3. *yoof. Even college is misguiding people to a degree. It is grooming you to work for someone else. Big picture is to see money as a tool to freedom & then set forth with goal of attaining it in amounts to free your time. To then drink beer, 4×4 around shootin’ stuff, rail cabin wenches, & fish all day.

        4. The more I think about it, the more I think there’s a great opportunity for a red piller who wants to travel between Eastern and Western Europe and the USA and also get into some red pill wilderness living and adventure.

      3. Nothing like a 270 pound black blob of shit squeezing her way down the aisle of a 50 seater.

    2. I’m pretty hardcore in favor of smaller government, but even I think firefighters should be given more resources. I’d like to see that happen primarily at the local and state level, but I’d much rather the federal government allocate a few hundred million to helping firefighters than waste that same amount of money buying 23 toilet seat lids or funding some survey about the number of one-eyed purple tree frogs inhabiting Random Valley, USA.

      1. We pay tons of money in state and local taxes. Why isn’t that money being used to deal with this.

  3. In this decadent world a man who dresses as a woman, chops off his balls and takes hormones to ‘be a woman’ is a hero; but men who risk their lives saving the lives of people they don’t even know kill themselves, and no one gives a shit about it.
    The only honorable choice for an honest man is to declare this world his enemy.

    1. The Western world, at least. I hold out hope that their remain refuges of tradition out there.

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      2. actually the western world (at least the u.s) is starting to become more conservative again. Feminism has almost ran its entire course and people in general are fed up with it. Eastern europe from what i hear is starting to pick up on feminism now that they are gaining more prosperity.

        1. I’m starting to see the ridiculous thick rimmed glasses in Kyiv. Goodbye Ukraine.

        2. oh i didnt know hence why i emphasize the U.S. Man it sucks for our bros in the U.K

        3. This
          I travel to Russia a lot and I’ve noticed in the major cities that feminism is affecting the women there and I hear the same thing from my friend in Poland.

        4. Meh, Ukraine has always been a lost cause, it’s just some people are slow to see things.

    2. 80% of suicidals are by men where 2/5 are due to divorce rape!! Has anyone heard of these statistics by the media, of course not!! A man wanting to use the female toilets cause he identifies as a female is more important!

    3. I wonder what the male – female hiring stats look like in the fire depts. Definitely time for some equal opportunity hiring policies and mandated ethic gay and female quotas in this area. We might even solve the trans gender problem by having whole squads of tranny fire fighters top themselves. After all they love a bit of hose.

    4. That’s true, but I still hope that all this garbage of “gender ideology” will pass and everything will return to normal.
      I have hope…

  4. Gotta say it but firefighting is largely a huge scam. In Chico California (population approximately 100,000) a few years ago there were 20 city employees making over $200,000 15 of them I believe were firefighters. The fire chief made over 300,000 and claimed to have been out on every single call that year even though there are several different stations. Firefighting is no where near as hazardous as it used to be since our fire codes are 100x better than they were 100 years ago. (I think the amount of buildings that caught on fire one year in the same town was 4)
    I chalk up firefighter suicide more to a cultural phenomenon, that is that it is more a microcosm of the suicide of the west in general.

    1. Goddamn Russian anti-firefighter propaganda! Don’t believe these damn Russian infiltrators! They want us to let our firefighting guard down, so they can sneak in and burn the whole country down when we ain’t looking!

      1. Firemen are Russian infiltrators:
        Firemen drive firetrucks
        Fire trucks are red
        Red was the color of the communists
        The communists first took over Russia in 1917
        1917 was the year the first fire truck was made
        And fire trucks are always Russian around.

        1. I have never seen a Stalin and a Firetruck in the same room at the same time…just sayin’

    2. While it is MUCH safer now to be a fire fighter than it was, say, when buckets were involved it is still more dangerous that….let’s say….accounting or fixing typewriters. That people who are generally more prone to suicide would also be more prone to jobs which have higher risks of danger is not even remotely surprising.

      1. True, but I think the suicide rates for firemen have more to do with washing the same truck 50 times a week and working a graveyard shift than anything. In fact I would say the lack of action drives it as much as the action itself, spending tons of time doing bs menial work and getting screwed with by jackass superiors grinds a man down.

        1. Sounds perfectly logical to me. Also, at some point those mustaches must get bothersome.

        2. That’s actually a very good observation. I know that guys would get all suicide-y when they spent too much time in garrison and weren’t out in the field doing real work, in the military. Same theory. Sitting there, sweeping dirt on the sidewalk in the blazing sun, and your Dear John letter arrives to let you know that she is leaving you to hook up with Jody back home…gets to a guy.

        3. There’s a lot of pole sliding and we know those people have high suicide rates too! I’m not drawing parallels but sliding down a pole without a pair of perky tits and a pretty face is mega gay!

        4. I do too, that’s why 29 palms has the highest suicide rate of any military base last time I heard.

        5. The feeling of uselessness/helplessness can lead a man to suicide! My bet is that the dude needed to keep busy in order to forget about problems!

        6. It probably doesn’t help that DI’s and merciless NCO’s rub that whole “Jody gonna take your girl!” shit in hard just for kicks. I don’t mind too much, hell it weeds out the weaker men through natural attrition (we’re assuming that a gunshot to the head is natural here…work with me…) so in the end you have a more fit fighting force.

        7. Agreed. I think a large driver behind military suicides are precisely this. Getting paid to sit on your ass doing nothing can make depression fester.

    3. Same in Benicia CA, there’s a Valero refinery there that pays a lot of taxes to the city and years ago I saw local fireman on a cheesy commercial recommending who to vote mayor so I asked locals and they said they were making 200-300k and the mayor they were backing wasn’t gonna cut their wages. Benicia is a tiny town too and all they did was get cats out of trees and help old people with groceries from time to time.

        1. I’m sure, they all had nice classic muscle cars parked out front. One local told me it was all family and close friends so it was impossible to get in.

    4. These days if an old building catches fire it’s pretty much going to be a total loss because the fire fighters will simply prevent the fire from spreading. There won’t be any effort made to save the building for safety reasons.
      On the other hand the fire department sends a rather significant response to every little call. (those not involving a fire) Good for justifying a bigger budget.

      1. From an insurance standpoint it is actually better if it’s total loss because they won’t pay for everything that still stands (even if it’s still totally useless)

    5. They all gotta have the red Dodge diesel truck too, theyre like little boys

  5. H.R.321 – Inspiring the Next Space Pioneers, Innovators, Researchers, and Explorers (INSPIRE) Women Act
    H.R.255 – Promoting Women in Entrepreneurship Act
    Won’t someone think of the firewomens?

        1. She’s kinda cute. Shame women generally don’t dress like that any longer.

        2. Mormon and Amish broads, yeah, there are those. I’m more particular to the kind of woman that doesn’t mind a bottle of wine in the house though.

        3. Love it, there are so many old pin ups that are just delightfully insane. Back when seeing a naked woman was rare and memorable the male imagination just went apeshit.

        4. Who says you have to abide by them. They are to abide by you. The creed here on ROK is more powerful than any other I see out there. Like Roosh’s recent article about women not voting. Amish and mormons vote. The Pennsylvania Amish vote was critical. But women shouldn’t vote period. There are many more important things for a woman to do like cooking. Especially when my woman cooks my hot dog.

        5. The leaders use those women to control everyone in their communities. Those people are fucked.

        6. Mainstream LDS began advocating male circumcision to ‘fit in’ more with the national trend. It was a bit too kosher thing for them to do. They need to get over their guilt complex from past persecutions already and proudly commence once again pounding it away with more than one wife without the divorce court cabal regulating their affairs. The price for fitting in is your soul. Renegade and loosely affiliated FLDS and polys out in the hills living independtly allow drinking.

    1. And remember kids, this comes from a GOP Congress and is being signed by a GOP President. The power of reason falls completely apart when vaginas, emotions and titties enter the scene.

      1. I don’t know, sending these stupid twats to the moon seems like an excellent plan. Jackie Gleason pioneered is very early on.

  6. Yea, I had a high school teacher who was a firefighter and the stories he told me about what the firefighters did when they werent on duty were crazier than what they did on duty.
    High-risk behavior should be read as very dangerous thrill seeking.

  7. If your employer allows women to become firefighters even when they fail the physical test but expects you to treat them as equals who might be your only backup, suicide might seem appealing.

  8. Troops are Federal, which is the justification for the Feds setting up assistance centers. Firefighters still belong to our system of Local Rule and are thus financed at the local level, as is proper. I can kinda sorta get behind helping troops IF they were drafted against their will and got maimed in a battle that they’d have no desire to be in if not for the force of government. The FedGov basically crippled them for life, so the FedGov better damned well pick up the tab for their treatment(s). But generally I’m of the mind that if you voluntarily pick your career as an adult then you are assumed to know the risks, or at least have had ample resources to discover them if you had even an iota of curiosity about what impacts your choices can have on your life.
    I have no beef with firefighters at all, and if they are in need of help then we should focus on setting up regional resources that draw on the communities in which they work, or an umbrella charity nationwide, unattached and unsupported by Federal dollars, in order to help them. But nationalizing their profession’s risks is not a good solution, and will come with a lot of very bad strings attached, as does all Federal money. Additionally there are no Constitutional provisions that allow for this whatsoever, none, not one.
    I’ll stick with the 10th Amendment for now, thanks.

    1. “lets help the firemen” is exactly the kind of shenanigans that always comes with “oh and by the way, here is a new tax, the entire country must wear blue arm bands and on alternate Thursdays all citizens must line up to be sodomized”

      1. So true and anytime you try to cut local taxes it’s the police and the firemen that are going to be fired. (Trust me they go door to door to let you know). The city will still have the funds to keep the queer homeless shelter open, sit on 50 acres of undeveloped land (to drive housing prices up) and 750,000 dollars for the new piece of modern art being installed in downtown plaza whether all our homes are burnt down or not.

        1. For temporary quarters before we can get them out into the fields to be used as prey for some jolly grand hunts. I can sense great profit potential here.
          Release the Genderqueers! Tally ho men, have at them! Bugle blows, horses light off, shots are fired as the freaks scramble for cover. Ah……

        2. Sounds good to me but I do not look forward the remake of Free Willie

        3. Btw it’s hard to follow is “genderqueers” what they call themselves or is it a perjorative. We have actually got to the point where I don’t know if it is self identification or slur

        4. Likely both. Just so they can have an exclusive term and still claim victimhood.

        5. So crazy. I remember many many years (decades) ago only first bachelor party (first attended–the kneeman didn’t go down that road) there was a gay guy and he ordered a whisky st a a bar and I started yelling “oh no! I’m old fashioned. I like my faggots drinking cosmos” and would not let it go until he ordered a cosmo. This is back when that was considered funny and when gays were tolerable. Funny, I haven’t thought of that in years.

        6. Nice Joke Man! Times have 180’d since the 90’s tremendously! Fags used to be called queens and you could all get a good laugh and they kept a lot of their lives to themselves. Now all the okay ones are outflanked by the queens who some how have avoided AIDS long enough to share their many issues on being gay, you not appreciated their gayness, and how their right to tell you they’re gay needs to be respected. Damn Faggots!

        7. It really was great. The idea that he would take it as offensive that I demanded he drink a cosmo never would have crossed anyone’s mind. I guess you are right, the fags got old and as their bodies turned to mush they decided to get political

        8. Around here, they call them “homeless women’s shelters.” Don’t dress up discrimination as chivalry. It’s fucking insulting.

        9. Yeah, but those guys aren’t going to mention that the $10 000 slushie machine that they needed for morale. Fuck hero squad, they are proud to sit on daddies lap when it suits them but bitch and moan when it doesn’t.

        10. That’s how all local government operates. They always threaten to cut things like schools, fire, police, paramedics. That is, the “good stuff,” unless yet another tax hike gets approved.
          They never cut any of the crap that doesn’t need funding, and they almost never resolve any of the structural issues that cause taxes to be so high in the first place (mainly the funding of pensions, which should be replaced by 401ks and other retirement programs).
          (Though I wouldn’t care if most such things did get cut, there’s no reason why paramedics and firefighters can’t be funded with subscription fees, and schools? Heh)

        11. You know there’d be that one ripped, 190 lb tranny that would go all Xena & be a pita to put down.

        12. Exactly. Firefighters/police are versed like an old black woman in scamming the system. Then have the balls to act like the shepherds of us mere sheep.

        13. it wasn’t “bashing” people were just less fucking sensitive. If no one was bleeding afterwards then you just laughed a little.

        14. Sounds like a kind of modern day fox hunting – pickup truck, night sights and 50 cal.

      2. Do not be surprised if the female firefighters end up getting public notice if they start committing suicide too.

        1. Oh, that will rate at least a hashtag campaign, a federal investigation and, of course, legislation to fund numerous programs to #SaveOurFieryCunts (or whatever). Guaranteed.

      3. Watch out, some will probably like wearing blue arm bands while being sodomized.

    2. I tend to think that the man who volunteers his services and possibly his life in service to our armed forces deserves no less treatment or support than the man who is forced into it through conscription.
      Simply put, the volunteer system we have in place now is a better alternative than mandatory conscription. I don’t have to go to war because someone else willingly took my place. That, to me, is something worth supporting.

      1. That wasn’t my point. If a person volunteers (which I agree is the preferred way) then he’s assumed to know the risks. I don’t think the government on any level should be financing much of anything with regards to “compassion”, except the things that they compelled by force and then get the guy fucked up.

    3. Next they’ll be rallying for their own GI Bill. I thinks cops years ago kept much more law & order. The type that got away with the dirty work of beating a douche bag up when no one was looking & could care less if you drove after two beers on the way home from work. Nowadays they are simply adept at $ extraction from average joe & really dont fight much crime. I wouldnt call them if I truly needed help. Between my pistol, insurance company, & fire department…there isnt much in life a cop will do for me that truly affects things. Someone could burglarize my home, they arent catching them.

    4. Not entirely correct since low income and low education communities are targeted by military recuiters accompanied by glossy hollywood military glamor porn.

  9. Slide in our local theater’s ads: “90% (or whatever it was) of our calls WEREN’T fires.”
    Yeah, I don’t care. Firemen are much like our military. They’re paid to sit around and work out most of the time. They’re overpaid for what they actually GIVE the community.
    And when I see three firetrucks show up and pollute my neighborhood with diesel fumes (literally making me ill INSIDE my house) for an old lady needing medical assistance, the whole fucking system can fuck off. The three pig cars and ONE ambulance top it off. Fucking brilliance. And a massive waste of my tax dollars. No fucking wonder my county income tax doubled in two years.

    1. “They’re paid to sit around and work out most of the time. They’re overpaid for what they actually GIVE the community.”
      Urban areas perhaps, but the majority of firemen in the US are volunteers. They don’t get paid squat.

    2. The majority of time I see one of those big fire engines at the side of the road the crew is usually tending to some homeless drunk or junkie passed out at a bus stop. They don’t send the ladder truck but it’s still a pretty damn big vehicle for the job, and they still have to wait for an ambulance if the guy is to be transported. I don’t know why they don’t use smaller vehicles more often for calls that are non-fire related.

  10. But the antics of Station 51 look like so much fun. How can you get depressed hanging with DeSoto and Gage all day? Hey, remember the one where Gage blew up the station’s TV set?

  11. Here’s an unusual little upper for this site:
    As I was sitting with a bunch of work mates at the breakfast table in a hotel in North Carolina today, the black lady who cleans the tables said, “I just love to see men settin at this table.”
    One of us asked, “Why?”
    Her reply: “Because I know y’all work hard and get the job done.”

    1. Recently at work, I was sitting with a guy and an old, divorced, washed up slut. She was upset and complaining about her job. She said she wanted to quit and pursue something else. Then she went on, “you guys are on top of your game, men get better with age, not us girls.” Instead of consoling her, I just smirked and said, “a lot of women haven’t figured that out yet.”

    2. Cool….^^ working people can recognize other working people that do real work…Good on that lady…

  12. now ptsd in firemen? get out your liberal wallet for the next handout. The string after that is anyone working.- any woman that is. Males need to apply for that check …..
    I can understand combat if actually shot at but a fireman?
    Not. what about my ptsd from marrying as a blue piller and getting my financial nuts cracked when she took it all. Don’t I get a check?

    1. Dude, they see a lot of dead kids. Doctors get similar problems.
      I don’t care how tough a guy thinks he is, there are limits to everything.

    2. Lol no shit. Plus just saying youre a fireman could get a mongoloid laid. Poor guys.

  13. An honest question, but how much is feminism and feminization a part of this? One woman bitches and moans and gets added to the NYFD and its fire fighter not Fireman.
    I’ll admit it, I struggle with women in the military. It’s so unnatural, so self serving, so for all the wrong reasons. And, let’s face it. It diminishes the accomplishment. After all if a woman can do it, then, well, guess anyone can and its just not that significant. Should have tried harder at something else, if you only knew.
    It tugs at something very deep inside. The men who join the fire department and military for the most part are alpha protectors. Women seem to see such occupations as an accessory and, worse, extension of thier ego. And, moreover, disregard the incredible human expression on display, which is a man’s compulsion to protect her. A truly one of a kind selfless gesture. You can call it evolution, evo-psychology, I call it God, whatever you like, but this is deep in a man, at the gut. It’s who he is. And woman, today, and therefore society, does what? Literally shits on that and says its oppression and evil. Meanwhile the rest of society over accommodates women and other weaker types screaming for thier right to “self actualize”, when a man is self actualized as a alpha protector and ostracized for it.
    The mind fuck for me is I went to war for a society that has taken all my legitimate accomplishments, from football to Marines to work, and diminshed them. The reason? Because of feelings, but of course, not mine. I can see where MGTOW comes from. Should I have never tried? Well, that’s not me. What kills me is this – I should have tried harder. If I could go back in time to do it all over I would have gone triple balls out! And accomplished a thing even less men can do. And then you face the surreality of society, where my debutant anorexic model cousin of 98 lbs is seen by society as just as much of a bare knuckles fighter as I am? All my fist fights, all the brawls can people not see the extensive lifelong process of becoming and staying tough? It’s like these women think they can just buy toughness like a pair of shoes?
    And that’s the hook of it, feeling unaccomplished even though I’m actually quite accomplished. Even worse, the bullshit of it all. The reduced standards, the preferential treatment, the quotas, the fucking TV shows and movies…the privilege. Worst of all is the real knowledge of feminism and how conniving and sinister it truly is. Degenerate monsters like dworkin want to take men down. That fat shit would whack off knowing that men feel this way. Not only do they write about it they scream about it. And this condition you find yourself in, you realize, is because of these fucking deranged individuals who are, at the core, simply jealous and envious.

    1. In the good old days, alpha protectors would have been firemen. Now everything is politics. You’re either an opposed minority or your family is politically connected to get a job.

  14. Society would be much better off spending on automatic fire suppression equipment than paying for full-time firefighters that retire young and draw a pension for many decades onward.
    They also spend almost all of their time sitting around, training, answering false alarms, etc… Almost no time being a hero. I suspect this why they are so disappointed.
    Just as with police and paramedics, young men should volunteer or be drafted into part time service. They can be sent a message on their cell phones when services are required. No waiting half an hour for the fire department to drive around traffic. Getting rid of volunteer fire departments is another scam of the nanny state to collect more money and take away local autonomy.
    It could also be privatized where property owners would be required to pay for fire protection based upon their need and risk.
    My fire department is now proudly doing “girl empowerment” training. They train teenage girls but not boys. Time to cut those bastards off.

    1. I’ve always wondered that… with advances in automatic fire suppression technology, as well as building codes which require sprinklers, do we really need to have increased spending on firefighters?
      And you’re absolutely right about the pensions… in some cities retired city workers get paid far more than they earned in their total salary over time. It is as if we’re paying to have 2 sets of police, firefighters, paramedics, teachers, etc., but we only have one that is working.

  15. there is a strong push to get strong empowered grrls into firefighting where i am
    “everything a man can do a woman can do better”
    its going to be interesting.

  16. Firefighters & police are now trying to get the same benefits & public eye as miitary. You hear, “First responders & miitary” discount all the time. Another group trying to get special buttercup status. Suck it up, you vounteered for it.

  17. No…. Standing around while some junkie dies isn’t the same as serving. These guys get paid a fortune with big benefits and social standing to do a relatively cushy job. I’ve had enough of their attention whoring. Lots of people work far more dangerous jobs for far less. There is very, very little “life risking”. Worshipping these guys is for secretaries and teachers. Just my opinion.

  18. I agree with the premise of the article but the conclusion is off the mark. The last thing we need is yet another federal government program, at any level, dedicated to “solving” this.
    I’ll throw out another reason as to why though… look at the problems listed that get federal attention, things like primary education, women’s reproductive health, breast cancer, violence against women, etc. Have any of these issues been “solved” by having federal funding? Of course not. Every year we hear more and more about how these problems are “worse than ever” and even more federal money has to be dropped into what is essentially a slush fund.

  19. I had the fortune of growing up in a firefighters house. I say that for a couple reasons. When I was growing up the whole family was part of the department. The fire personnel and their family was also our family. Our moms were members of the firefighters auxiliary. The older women in the auxiliary actually did their best keep the younger wives inline and made them understand the nature of the job.
    My father had a very hard edge in his personality. Firefighters back then were a different breed. Hardly any of them were college educated. Most of them completed at least an AS in night school once they were on the job. They did this to help them move into captain and battalion chief positions and to be chief. The classes they took were usually in fire science.
    When those guys were off duty at the station, they lived like men. There were no women firefighters. When they were at home, the family did fun stuff. My dad, my brothers and I went camping, shooting, fishing, we worked on cars… Most of them had a construction trade under their belts and knew how to work with their hands. All the firefighters were like that.
    My old man saw some nasty stuff and did some dangerous rescues. There was a couple traditions back then that discouraged firefighters from trying to get their face on the news. As far as critical stress, my fathers attitude could be summed up in something he once told me–and I quote “it’s your job to deal with the worst and the best that happens to society, if it bothers you either suck it up and live with it or find a new line of work”. My father was raised dirt poor, was a military man and did very well in the fire department.
    My dads been gone for a while. After reading this article I asked my mom about firefighter suicides back in the day. She said “hell no we didn’t have that problem, back then men were men and not a bunch of pussies”. Got to love an old lady that tells it like she sees it.
    This article makes me wonder what’s changed since the days of my father’s department and now. Back then, firefighters were all male, they were high school educated, most of them worked construction while trying to get on with the department, there was no critical stress debriefing. Back then firefighters would talk among themselves about issues but the underlying mandate was to find a way to cope and they kept it in-house. Pussies were either changed to men or shown the door.
    What’s happening now. ALL firefighters have to be college graduates. Most of them have to have paramedic credentials. Now you have women in the fire house which has brought more problems than anyone either is able to talk about or wants to go on record with.
    I have a flying buddy who’s a (fire) engineer currently studying for the captains exam. He said before women in the station, the station was a fun, highly alpha environment. Enter women with the sexual-protected status and everyone is afraid to step out of line for fear of loosing their job and having their reputation destroyed. Women who fail the physical requirements are being pushed into management. Guys are afraid that the one person who might be in a position to save their ass doesn’t pack the gear to be able to do so, they know they’re on their own in such cases.
    It has been said right here that guys that hang out with women too much can start to take on the mannerisms of the women they hang out with. They can become moody and depressed and nower days they get to go home to a woman that’s probably screwing the pool-boy on his four-days and isn’t there to give him a heaven at home. They’re a bunch of college pussies that are no longer being told they need to look within for solutions to their problems. They have no outlet for their frustrations and no heaven at home. Now, this isn’t a blanket statement but not every firefighter is suicidal.

  20. I was a fire fighter for 9+ years, interesting topic. The biggest causes of death for us are heart disease and traffic accidents, so this is news to me, but perhaps not unbelievable.
    That being said, FFing is a really weird thing were it is super macho to the point of detriment where you can’t talk about being sad, destroyed etc. I saw a LOT of bad stuff, and only once was there a crisis counselor for us. There was always some of the older guys ‘if you need to talk’ but no one ever did.
    You just had to suck it up. I mean that in a bad way. I grew up and had a lot of deaths in my family, and video games both desensitized me to violence (sadly, I admit) but you could tell it got to some of the guys.

  21. A subject that provoked me to sign-in and comment after lurking for a year or two.
    Won’t speak to full-timers, not my gig, but I volunteer in two different houses – the two communities that I spend the most time in. Both are fairly remote, and the only help within 30 minutes, or at ALL, are volunteers.
    I took a call this morning that turned into a Life Flight. I have rolled out @ 0300 for a structure fire, and worked that fire for 7 hours. I have done multi-vehicles, roll-overs. In one House, I get nothing, the other one a stipend of $10 per call. Obviously don’t so it for the $, it is a productive way to give back to the community. I spend more $ per year on personal protective equipment than what I get.
    I haven’t taken a call where we lost the patient, but it will only be a matter of time. I have seen guys, especially the EMTs, have a hard time rolling out on calls after that. NO ONE likes to loose, especially a life.
    I suspect that more communities will turn back to volunteers as the pensions are destroyed by multiple factors, and there will be a need for men again.
    I’m in my 50s, I lift, and am probably among the 3 strongest in the house, so when a bad call is dispatched, I’m almost the always the first or second firefighter an engine officer picks, because when the going is rough, you want seasoned, capable men next to you. Actual emergency response is the domain of real men, SJW BS is ignored.
    The payoff for me is unscheduled adrenaline rushes, an environment where being physical, aggressive, cocky, and skilled is welcomed, you get to do dangerous work, and it is practical service to your local community.
    So tuck this way unless you are in a community that have responding volunteers, but eventually fire-fighting will be the domain of men again, and you may find it rewarding then.

  22. Those men risk their lives all the time. They certainly deserve better than an ignomious death (at their own hands no less).
    An Army buddy became an airport firefighter. Some of those guys eventually end up with bizarre health issues after sucking in a bunch of toxic fumes. When he became a senior trainer, he took me into their concrete training tower during an exercise. Suited me up in a heavy outfit made by 3M. Helmet and oxygen. Probably against OSHA or some other thing.
    They soaked a bunch of wood pallets with diesel and torched them on the ground floor. Following my buddy through that shit with full firefighter mask/oxygen was claustrophobic as hell. Crawling on the ground, you can visibly perceive a layer just above your head where the very hot air sits above the (still hot) cooler air. Scarier than jumping from planes . . .

  23. Funny how PTSD is mainly from occupations that are heavily male dominated but women double men 20% to 9% on reported cases. Once they found out they can claim a mental illness for a tragic event in life they went to the doctors in droves for “traumatic births” “sexual harassment” “abusive relationships” etc.

  24. This is harrowing, and we need to get firefighters the services they need.
    I think it’s extremely important to ask the question – why is it so prevalent now, vs. the past?
    Why is suicide rate so high for current veterans than veterans of past conflicts?
    We need to figure this out to get to the root of the problem.
    If I had to call it, I’d say the trail leads to the societal forces identified in Charles Murray’s “Coming Apart”. The atheistic, atomized society where neighbors don’t talk to each other, decline in marriage, family, prevalence of divorce, feminism, etc.
    The firefighters, cops, veterans of the past had a families they came home to, had church, etc. I’d bet money if you looked into these suicides it would go hand-in-hand with divorce.

  25. Did I miss something? I like Mr. Curtis’ writings usually. I do not see any links or any data here at all. All I see is one unsupported claim that firemen die by suicide 3x as much as by dangers directly associated to their job.
    But what are the numbers for each? How do we know we even have an epidemic of fire fighter suicide? If the problem is that we don’t have numbers because there is no funding for numbers, what is the estimate? 350? Where does that come from? What percentage of firefighters is that and how does that compare to men in the population at large and to the population at large.
    I will forego assuming this is a real problem until I see proof that it is a real problem.

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