The Sexes

Should You “Man Up” And Get Married?

639 Comments

It’s a question that I still often see on social media: Should men, given the degenerate state of modern society, get married? Let’s start with the case against getting marriage, which seems to be getting stronger by the day.

The case against marriage

Those who argue that men should avoid marriage generally make the following points:

1. Women are hypergamous

Hypergamy is the concept of marrying someone with a higher social status. This has always been the case. In the Middle Ages, the nobility tried to marry their daughters to nobles who were equal or higher in rank. In the Mad Men era, secretaries would marry their bosses. Men are also hypergamous but it manifests differently. While women tend to look for wealthier or higher class men, men gravitate toward the most attractive girl they are able date and marry.

There is a good reason why women are hypergamous: When it works it enables women to secure the best provider for their future children. The offspring of a handsome, wealthy man will start life with a leg up over their competitors while the children of poor men are going to face more adversity. Hypergamy is a built-in feature of women. Some of them may not even be aware that they are being hypergamous. They are just fulfilling their natural inclination. As such, hypergamy is a good thing. A hypergamous woman has higher standards. Would you really want to marry someone who has low standards?

The problem arises when hypergamy doesn’t end when a couple pronounces their marriage vows. At that point, hypergamy should end because the couple has vowed to be faithful to one another but modern divorce laws make it easy for women to divorce their husbands to fulfill the fantasy of marrying up. However, it is rare that a divorcee will truly find her Prince Charming, which explains why there are so many bitter women out there.

2. Easy divorce

While hypergamy isn’t new, easy divorce is. The first no-fault divorce law was signed by cuckservative icon Ronald Reagan back in 1969. It was introduced on the premise that it would make divorce more merciful on the parties. Instead, it has caused the divorce rate to skyrocket, weakened society, and helped lead us into the colossal mess we are in.  No-fault divorce means that there doesn’t have to be adultery, physical abuse, or abandonment for a couple to get a divorce. All you need is the desire to not be together anymore.

The problem is exacerbated because pop culture has instilled in us that a marriage is only valid so long as you are “in love.” But any marriage is going to have points where you might not have warm feelings about your spouse. Our ancestors understood this and so they made the vows the foundation of the marriage, but modern day women, raised on degenerate Hollywood movies and D grade chick-lit, are trained to think the marriage is over the moment they learn their husband is not as exciting as Christian Grey of the 50 Shades series.

3. Divorce rape

Courts used to award alimony in the cases where there is a big income disparity between the earning power of the spouses. This happens a lot less now that women have earning power just about equal to men, but if you are in the NBA and divorce your wife, you might find out that you’ll need to pay your ex for several years. However, I don’t think most men need to worry about this scenario.

The whole game changes if you have kids. Courts put the needs of the children first. That usually means the mother will get custody of the children along with child support payments. These can be quite steep. And if you fail to pay your child support, you will find yourself in jail until you manage to cough up the funds. The divorced men I’ve talked to tell me that they don’t have a problem spending money for the good of their children but they don’t want to benefit the woman who ultimately destroyed the marriage. Women know this and actually rub salt in their ex-husband’s wounds. I’ve seen women on Instagram boast about how they spent their child support check on new shoes.

Child support can be an onerous and, at times, an unfair burden on men. But you don’t need to get married to feel the pain of child support. You only need to father a child, so this is not really an argument against marriage.

4. Not enough high quality women remain

Now we come to what I consider the most compelling reason to avoid getting married: You lack choice. This has become a real problem in the modern age.

There have always been men and women who are unmarriageable. Perhaps they are ugly, stupid, or have a grating personality. For the sake of argument, let’s assume that in the 1950s, 10% of men and women were unmarriageable. That left about 90% of men chasing the same number of women—as a man your odds were pretty good.

The situation has changed. The immoral climate has lowered the standards for both men and women, but quality of women has been hit disproportionally through obesity, adopting SJW beliefs, and becoming sluts. It’s obviously not scientific, but we now have more men chasing fewer women.

Because women are hypergamous, they will seek out the highest quality males. This means that the men who have a lower sexual market value will have to choose: Wife up a fat carousel rider or stay unmarried. As in the animal kingdom, alpha males win this game while the lower betas end up being losers.

Reasons in favor of marriage

While there are some reasons why you might avoid marriage in our post-modern age, there are still lots of reasons why getting hitched still makes good sense.

1. It is the best environment for raising children

Bruce Lee teaching his son martial arts.

Yes, you could have children out of wedlock with your live-in girlfriend but you’ll eventually have to explain to your children why you didn’t think highly enough of their mother to put a ring on it. Simply living together also makes it easier to leave when the going gets tough—and it inevitably does in every relationship. But if the couple splits, you are back to single motherhood which all research indicates is terrible for the children’s future.

2. It’s the only way to build a dynasty

Throughout history, dynastic succession was counted only through legitimate heirs. Bastard sons were excluded. This is because men have a low standard for who they will bang, but a high standard for who they will marry. The children you father with your wife will bear your name. More importantly, they will be raised by you and your wife, allowing you to make the greatest impression on your kids. You don’t have the same effect with the various bastards you might sire.

3. Being married is good for men

Despite what you may have heard, married men usually have more sex than single men. It’s always easier to have sex with the woman you sleep next to every night than to go out to the bar a few nights a week in search of a one-night stand. And sex aside, good wives genuinely love and care for their husbands. The love a good woman is a thing to be cherished.

Conclusion

Marriage is the foundation of civilization. Without it, chaos will eventually overcome society. Therefore, men should still aim to get married even though modern society has made that difficult by corrupting our women. The trick to winning in this difficult marriage market is to be a high quality man. The best way to do that is to commit to ongoing self-improvement and by holding yourself to high standards.

Read More: Why Would A PUA Get Married? An Interview With Paul Janka

639 thoughts on “Should You “Man Up” And Get Married?”

  1. Don’t get married in the west if you are a man, the risks are far too great and there really is no way a man can win.
    In the rest of the world it’s mostly OK.

  2. mmhh interesting… now just waiting for all bitter commenters to come here explaining that marriage is doom, useless and so on..

    2. Thank you feminist. Always good to hear the Right and Left sound exactly alike with the pathetic shaming language. smh

  3. The propagation of the welfare state, the ability to create children and have them survive old enough to reproduce has short-circuited the ‘survival of the fittest’ progress of the human species. No longer are the Genghis khans sowing the land with humanity’s most virulent DNA combinations. The few of us who pull more than our own weight are forced to provide for a world of drug addicts, Islamic rape gangs, and sub 80- I.Q. mud people that reproduce as soon as they are able.

    1. So true! Spend a couple hours if you can stand it watching the dumbasses on Judge Judy, Paternity Court, etc. Some people should not have not used the ‘front hole’ together. And sorry shit I’ve gotten from women who have these high demands but aging. Decriminalize prostitution would be a good start.

      1. “Decriminalize prostitution would be a good start”, I think the same thing because it takes power from the other women and gold diggers and strippers, it also gives power back to men in the dating world, they will not start chasing pussy ever again
        prostitutes must look very beautiful and be very sexy and must be cheap to fuck one and they must have health care and be tested regularly for H.I.V and other STD’s

        3. It’s legal in Australia and the women here as just as spoiled an entitled as anywhere else…

        4. Oregon is aflood with immigrants too and the state seems to only crack down on white families, especially sovereign ones residing in the mountainous eastern part of the state. Not a day goes by when you don’t read about the state child protection racket snatching some white kids from another bungalow in the hills. But dirty Asian and negroid refugee kids sitting on the hood of a car in Portland get overlooked because they’re not ‘high dollar’ kids.
          Hookers are legal and licenced in oregon but that’s the state again failing to solve a problem. Why not just screw some unmarriagable ho bag and pass it to your buddy without the auspices, control or radar of the state? No money exchanged, maybe your buddies owe you for some work so barter to them the ho bag like a bitcoin, untracable and none of the government’s fucking business?
          Pass around ho bags are everywhere else; in high schools, bars, carnivals, churches – they’re everywhere. A pass around dumb bitch ho bag friend is likely cleaner than a hooker too. You never know with a hooker, regardless if she’s state licenced or back alley, you never know how much donkey dick and garbage man she’s had.
          But narrow her dick intake down to a few buddies and that’s basically the ‘pass around’ life of your typical dumb ho anyway. Every HS football team has some failed cheerleader that gets passed around like the ball. She’s a ho and she knows it. Players have girls flinging themselves at them so the team ho bag has to be pretty hypergamous and offer a good enough fuck that a player will give his nut some time on her. She’s no different than a prostitute only she gets paid in car rides and invitations to parties.
          Forget prostitutes. They’re the dirtiest and have the strangest history. Paid prostitutes are for people with no friends or buddies and primarily very beta people who can only converse with other betas. Lower tier Jews and mamas boys also fall into this category. No alpha or guy with social clout would pass one of his ho bag dumb fuck bitches over to some beta friend because the beta would fall in love with it and want to marry it.

        5. Yes NZ and AU have some of the worst butch jailbird type females on the planet – and the best legal prostitution setup – so much for that theory – i recall reading an article about a female traffic cop in NZ who worked evenings in the whorehouse and loved the power (and extra income) it gave her. Imagine trying to marry that…. she’d probably install a parking meter in the bedroom and write you a ticket for each kiss.

        6. Aussie women are like Sydney house prices- even if you can afford them, why would you when you can get a WAY better deal elsewhere?
          A Latina or Eastern European 9 is so much easier than an Aussie 7 it’s ridiculous…and I know what I’d rather go for.

      2. There is an add i saw on TV the other day where the hapless husband arrives home from work, briefcase in hand and accidentally lets the pet rabbit escape… and he’s running all over the neighbourhood chasing the stupid pet which would be better strangled and eaten for dinner. Much to the amusement of the wife and kids…. no matter he might be tired from a busy day, no matter his work documents and probable need to settle and clear his head from a busy day — nope — knee deep in BS before he even gets through the front door… he might as well live in the monkey enclosure at the local zoo.
        This picture tells you everything you need to know about the hostile environment that is the modern family home. Never a minute of peace – your profession is an inconvenience – your demanded to act as nanny, child minder, nurse maid and wife home help at a moments notice and basically no matter how well organised and professional you start out – you’ll soon be emotionally blackmailed into chasing the pet bunny all over the neighbourhood instead of getting a good meal and a restful evening in your own home.
        It doesnt matter if you are a viking warrior or Napoleon himself…. masculinity stands for sweet zero in the current cultural environment – you bend or it bends you – or you tell it to F off.
        There was a good reason why kings had their children brought up by a governess and barely saw them once a month. Wife and kids are for the very rich or the very poor who have nothing to lose – if you not in the first category you will soon land in the latter if you venture into family / marriageland.

        1. Everything you say here is spot on. All the subtleties are right.
          The issue at hand is then this: if men don’t take over physical care for the kids and home, who will? I see a generation of kids out there right now mostly reared by dads and grandmothers– not because their mothers simply refuse to engage the job, but because they seem genuinely emotionally/psychologically unable to carry the weight. They’re lost. All they seem able to do is throw retail purchases at their kids, and hope that it fulfills the job of parenting.
          This really is at the root of so many of the things that we express frustration about around here in these comments: the psychospiritual degradation of men and women.

    2. Let the world burn. Hope for collapse. Laugh at the starving useless losers.

    3. Don’t forget paying for costly wars that produce terrorists and drug markets.
      “The few of us who pull more than our own weight” are also the ones that put such leaders in power that make these things happen. Many people voted for Trump, thinking it would actually change something. War, afghan poppy fields, swamps, etc will continue to thrive.

      1. Many more of us voted for Trump to keep the bitch out of the office. Trump could accomplish nothing in all 4 or 8 years and it would be a huge win as far as I am concerned. He has put in one good Supreme Court Justice, and may put in a few more. That is just gravy over the main point of avoiding the murder incorporated bitch that would have had us in WWIII being POTUS.

        1. He also added to the swamp. And he may be adding to the war too, we’ll know in time.
          Incidentally, that was ISIS’s rationale to attack voters and candidates in the French elections: the lesser of the 2 evils is still too bad, and the voters are sheep who allow those kinds to get into power, so kill them too. As long as people continue to legitimize the red vs blue team, it’ll be the same old.

        2. The swamp has been growing since 1792, maybe earlier. If you voted for Trump thinking the swamp would be drained, you were naïve. If Trump survives the swamp, and reduces it at all, then I will count that as a major victory.

        4. Long as hes quickly impeached since he served his purpose of keeping Shillary out

  4. What’s the point? Men have to compete with women for the same jobs which lowers wages in addition to the swarms of H-1’s also lowering wages. Even if you make a decent salary it is ravaged by taxes and inflation. Housing and other needs are going up faster than take home pay regardless of education. The women of all ages are mostly children in thought and deed.

    1. And even if you’re making a lot after tax and inflation, she will divorce you and take half of it.

      1. Oh she can do much worse than that:
        www. youtube. com/ watch?v=RGiJpKpYtaw
        www. youtube. com/ watch?v=PVQrmbwpEps
        www. youtube. com/ watch?v=hCAczGZcXPk
        www. youtube. com/ watch?v=yGp9IfdhrCY
        www. youtube. com/ watch?v=1XH1C444nmI

  5. One benefit to having children that I realize in my old age is how much I enjoy seeing kids when I go out. They live in the now and aren’t carrying all the angst and stress that accumulates in your soul as you progress through life. I think they also remind me a lot of the good times I had with my sons when they were toddlers so seeing happy children always blows away the egocentric crud of trying to survive. It really is an immediate response and I feel lighter and more cheerful. Goes for seeing young people in general also. This would be a function of grandchildren but doesn’t look like my sons will produce in the near future. As for marriage yes it is fraught with peril for today’s men. I penned an essay on this problem aimed at young women that continues to get a lot of hits on my blog :
    Girls! The Work-Life Balance Plan the Feminists Don’t Want You to Know
    http://wp.me/p6QFjS-3B

  7. Good article. This reminds me of that scene in Karate Kid when Mr. Myagi tells Daniel, (paraphrasing) “Either Karate yes, or Karate no. You do Karate guess so, and you get squished like bug in middle of road”
    Either you jump in with both feet and have a traditional marriage with a traditional wife. (Virgin, attend church, no TV, home school, wife stays home, etc.) or you opt out completely and ride the decline. The 1970’s-2000 model with a two income marriage, you come home, watch football, kids go to public school is not a safe arrangement.

    1. I agree with you whole heartedly Jim (as we have had this conversation before) but I would caution against thinking that “riding the decline” is the (only) natural alternative to the traditional (and proper) family life.
      The most important thing to realize here is that men need meaning in their lives. Family is a great source of meaning for some men and that is great. The alternative, however, isn’t simply “riding the decline.” Some man may find comfort in a solitary life, in the celibate life of a cleric, in creating a business and dedicating their life to that, in dedicating their life to politics — hell, some men may find meaning in writing novels and want to live a quiet life of repose while doing so. For me, I find value and meaning in several things. I am, to no small degree, a lover of the sensual in women. I date a lot, I sleep with many beautiful women…its one of my many hobbies. That said, I find that since leaving academia where I tried to make a vocation out of philosophy, I can now enjoy making an avocation of it. I enjoy fitness…not just being in the gym, but designing programs, thinking through the science of it, being an advocate and even writing about it form the stand point of my philosophical training.
      So while I think you are dead on here both with your view on family as well as your analogy to the Karate Kid with both feet in, I think breaking it up into the binary of “family life” vs. “riding decline” does a disservice to the power of masculinity that can find a higher cause whosesoever it looks

      1. I can accept that. I suppose there are other ways a man can contribute to society and find meaning in life. It just seems to me that the MGTOW movement has little to offer society and consequently, find little meaning to life. The guys like PJ Clark that work a crap job, hire prostitutes, and are typically bitter are very depressing to me.

        1. MGTOW movement stinks worse than bowel movement and your analysis of Clark and the rest of them is dead one. That said, someone like me who simply doesn’t find comfort in a partner or joy in the idea of raising a family can and will find other things to devote their lives to. What the MGTOW people are doing is just rank cowardice and emo depression.
          Look at a guy like Beethoven. He simply had things to do that precluded married life. As you know first hand, raising a family and tending to a marriage is a great deal of work. One must chose his work as time and energy are finite resources. Hopefully men will chose what they do in life based on what makes them feel fulfilled and not due to societal pressure. If I would have listened to people who told me I should get married and have children I would be, I swear to you, so freaking miserable. Instead, I feel happy, fulfilled and like I have purpose in my life.
          Not every man is cut out for every job. Division of labor and a health respect for other men who do their jobs and fill their roles admirably is really key.

        2. I’ve come to the same conclusion. My interest in my work and career and all that it entails is pretty overwhelming. It’s more important than a woman. If she can fit herself into my plans, I’m willing to share; otherwise, I’m equally happy just dating around.

        3. right. and hey, you will miss out on a few things in the same way that a guy with a wife and kids will miss out on other things…as long as you are honest with yourself about the pros and cons and accept them I see no reason to suggest there is any higher value to one way of life over the other.

        4. We can’t have everything. We have to make big life choices, the same big life choices that women are faced with. The difference is that when men make a decision, we stick with it, and we force ourselves to feel happy. Women often doubt doubt doubt (“ohmygod, am I doing the right thing?”) and then get depressed because of uncertainty and end up on a therapist’s couch and swallowing antidepressants.

        5. Your Beethoven description is what MGTOW is about. Dont let a few low hanging fruit define the movement as some nihilistic/cynical cult, that kind of thinking is what lead a lot of outsiders to think sites like this are “pro rape”.

        6. I think you give nihilism a bad rap here.
          I agree that that is what MGTOW ought to be about and what I had thought it was about, but looking out I don’t see it….all the MGTOWs I see are comic book guy. I have abandoned the term altogether

        7. I mostly meant the negative perception of nihilism. I’ve seen the comic book guys too, heck I used to be one in high school, but their problems mostly stem from a lack of guidance from a proper father figure, best to just ignore them and hope for the best.

        8. I must admit that I MGTOW sparked an interest in me when I was most vulnerable (having just gone through a “major breakup”), but overtime it wasn’t difficult to discern that those men who truly go there own way need no such label or affirmation from other men to live out meaningful, fulfilling lives. Such men have always existed and never needed to make something of it. That said, I do believe it to be useful for young men in terms of spreading information on female nature…unfortunately, it seems that too many fellows become obsessed with the concepts themselves rather than going on to improve their lives.

        9. I must admit that MGTOW sparked an interest in me when I was most vulnerable (having just gone through a “major breakup”), but over time it wasn’t difficult to discern that those men who truly go there own way need no such label or affirmation from other men to live out meaningful, fulfilling lives. Such men have always existed and never needed to make something of it. That said, I do believe it to be useful for young dudes in terms of spreading information on female nature…unfortunately, it seems that too many fellows become obsessed with the concepts themselves rather than going on to improve their lives.

        10. MGTOW is a realization that there is no reason to chain yourself to a wagon and pull it like a plow horse. Women are just part of MGTOW. The main component is realizing that working for the sake of working is not a virtue. Slaving away in a cubicle is good for the American economy and what should we as men care about the greater good (in such a sick culture and sick society)?

        11. Feeling like you have a purpose in life is not the same thing as actually having a purpose in life.
          A newborn chicken can think a roomba is its mother if it’s the first thing the chick sees.

        12. I agree with what you say here and think that that is what MGTOW ought to be but increasingly I am finding it a bunch of women hating chin beard losers and closet faggots complaining about women because they can’t get laid.

        13. Feeling like you have a purpose in life is important whether you actually do or not. When the thrill is gone then there is a real problem. What is the difference between the lightening you see and the lightening that is? We are talking about fulfilment and feeling happy in life. I don’t care if a man is thrilled with his Roomba…is he happy? is he fulfilled? yes? great. is he hurting anyone? no. Perfect. Let him be.

        14. There is a good deal of merit to the “not being able to get laid or get into a relationship” claim:
          1. Gender imbalance: more men than women due to mass migration, refugee influx (almost exclusively male), selective sex abortion (there was a recent article about how the Indians / Pakis in Canada abort female babies in favor of sons).
          2. Cultural gender roles that mean Black / Indian / Arab men can date white women but white men cannot date Black / Indian / Arab women.
          Fact is some men (regardless of how handsome or fit or charming they are) will be going without. The numbers are simply skewed against them. It’s foolish not to accept that.

        15. I will grant you that it may be more important to FEEL you have a purpose in life than to actually have one.
          For instance, I design medical devices. Most people would claim such a field is purposeful and should be fulfilling (as you are improving or extending peoples’ lives); however, I do not feel that way.

        17. Absolutely. Now if you, lets say, worked on a widget assembly line doing a job that the whole world told you is meaningless and FELT a great sense of meaning and happiness you would be so much further ahead of the game I think.

        18. 1) Is true in some places not in others. Where it is true I grant the point. In the city we live in, however, quite the opposite is true. There are far more single women than single men.
          2) Is total fucking nonsense.

        19. urban areas like nyc – regardless of actual numbers (which may favor men on paper) present the illusion of unlimited options for women

        20. they more than favor men on paper. Come with me to any bar I go to and just look around. There simply are more single women than single men out. I don’t know about other urban areas. LA, for instance, it seemed the other way around. But you live in my area…walk up to Mark Bar on 77th and Madison on a Friday night, walk in and order a drink. Look around. Discount couples and only look at singles and do a head count. I will go with you. You pick a random weekend night. Winner buys the first 2 drinks. Bring cash. I will be right.

        21. Here’s the dirty little Irony about the MGTOW movement:
          Being on the internet trying to make it a “movement” is the exact opposite of “going their own way”.
          If you want a good example for real, no shit, “MGTOW” type that I respect just watch any of those documentaries about mountain men. There’s a world of difference between the rugged and independent masculinity that those men ooze and a MGTOW internet type.

        22. I may have to try going out with you the next time I’m in Manhattan.

        23. 3’s a crowd brah
          this is a lolknee / Waldemar bonding thing so little space ok brah?

        24. “As you know first hand, raising a family and tending to a marriage is a great deal of work. One must chose his work as time and energy are finite resources. ”
          Yep, that’s the only aspect of marriage that I find problematic. My wife is awesome, a true joy to be with, devoted and decidedly anti-feminist/anti-PC. The amount of time and energy that has to go into a marriage does indeed detract from that available for use in other endeavours (in my case, research, hobbies, starting companies). Every day that passes makes me more aware of how true your observations are about time and energy.

        25. “Indians / Pakis in Canada abort female babies in favor of sons”
          sex selective abortion is a major trend in a lot of cultures. It is funny how the left wing idiots in Canada and Sweden have suddenly discovered this problem. Feminists in sweden are now bemoaning the preponderance of males in the younger age cohorts.
          Hmm, I wonder what importing millions of misogynistic people prone to aborting females will do to the demographics of a country. Math is hard.

        26. That’s highly localized, though. NYC is loaded with single women, just like DC and Ottawa. For every place like that there are ten cities with decidedly terrible prospects for men. Seattle (my home) is one of them. Silicon Valley (where I lived before) is another.

        27. yup, very few true MGTOW. My brother divorced last year, has sworn off women, and is spending his time traveling up and down the Rockies, rock climbing. He will work odd jobs here and there for a couple weeks and do photography for gas and food money. Otherwise, he just lives in his pickup/camper. How long he will do this? I don’t know. Maybe just until he can clear his head. Whenever I talk to him on the phone, he has stories to tell, but none of them involve women. There are some living completely off the grid like that, but not that many.

        28. My experience is localized to NYC for the most part and I have never suggested otherwise. I struck out both times I was in LA. I was actually happy not to get laid when I was in Seattle…as far as I could tell there is no one in that entire city over a 5. I’ve never been to Sil Valley and I am not sure what Ottawa is so yes, YMMV and my comment is based specifically in my own market.

        29. That is news to me. I have seen more white men with ethnic women than the other way around. I have even met Canadians dating Muslims.

        30. Ottawa-another thick rimmed glasses wearing feminist hellhole. Nice city in terms of QOL, though.

        31. When I first discovered the ‘Sphere, “Sandman’s” MGTOW vids were a big part of me crossing some of the tough emotional bridges into the clear light of day. I’d listen to them on headphones while lifting at the gym all the time. It helped me leave a lot of pain behind, in a way that few things have. But at no time did I ever consider that lifestyle for myself.
          I think what gets lost is leadership and service. Going one’s “own way” feels far more Sigma than it does Alpha. If the best of us men would all go MGTOW, it would represent an extraordinary loss of potential, and a reduction of the amount of good in the world.

      2. I think that’s part of the Protestant artificial dichotomy when it comes to a man’s lifestyle: Either you are married, no matter how, or you are a dissolute man (or a gay in the worst case scenario).
        However the other paths you mentioned (that of the hermit, the cleric, the man devoted to a lifelong project/journey) require a great amount of self-discipline and motivation as well as a cheerful attitude towards ones condition ie. Involuntary celibacy != chastity. That kind of self-discipline is hard to come by.

      3. Marriage is no longer important or even analogous to having a stable family in this country (unless, perhaps, you are in the upper crust – doubtful Mitt Romney’s wife will find a better option to hypergamously trade up to, for a somewhat extreme example). You have to assume that ANY woman can, and will blow up a marriage at any time in America, so if you want to have kids, you can always live with your kids’ mother and have at least a simulacrum of the nuclear family. If (or more likely, when) she capriciously breaks up your family in this situation, at worst a man will have to pay child support and it is effectively the same thing anyway.

        1. I think you are wrong but I am not married, don’t have kids and want neither. I will leave you to debate the fellas here with first hand knowledge that your opinion here, while common, is not ubiquitous and is avoidable if you take care to make the right choices.

        2. Just speaking from hardfought experience here and to a lesser extent, many friends (and even hearing about ex-husbands of some of my past bangs and what happened to those poor (literally as well as figuratively) dudes. I respect your opinion and outlook and I know you live a pretty awesome lifestyle while not wanting offspring. I also know that kids, even today, want their parents to be married, but nowadays it is really not in anyone’s best interests in most cases, except for the woman’s and the state’s.

        3. I get it….which I why I tend to abstain from this conversation. There are guys here who have had success and guys here who have had failure in this particular arena…I’ve had neither so my opinions are purely academic.

        4. “if you want to have kids, you can always live with your kids’ mother”
          Save for the fact that common law marriage is not all that rare in a lot of states or provinces. They basically toss most of the obligations of a married person onto you, without some of the benefits (e.g., applying for foreign citizenship for your kids can be hard).

        5. “I got a mom but I ain’t got a dad
          My dad’s got a wife but she ain’t my mom
          Mom’s looking for a man to be my dad
          But I want my mom and dad to be my real
          mom and dad
          Is that so bad”

      4. Anyone that wants to have a family and raise kids and a wife has to specialize in it, in other words thats the person’ career choice, being a father would bbehis career choice

      1. “Honey, what do you want on your sandwich?”
        “No squished bugs, didn’t you get the memo?”

      1. Well, he couldn’t be if he didn’t know Karate very well, could he?

      3. Don’t be silly we all know the real bullies were those stubborn beer bottles and whoever decided Elizabeth Shue should be in a one-piece.

        1. Those guys, and I am sure they were guys, should have been taken to the nearest wall and shot.

    5. public school in a rural area of a red state is not the worst, when combined with strong home teaching. Fuck public schools in big cities though. liveleak will show you what zoos those are

    6. As usual, Jim, you have good insight into this. But I’d like to elaborate more on the “two income marriage” thing. The “marriage as a partnership” meme is something that was sold to so many of us growing up that we have come to believe it as a truth.
      The “marriage partnership” theme is something like a man and a woman, both equals and alike in every way, fall and love, get married and become a “50/50” partnership where they “share everything” equally. You both share income, chores, decision-making, responsibilities, problems, etc. You both have careers and both of you pursue them, while sharing a home and a home-life.
      To a rational man who has never been in a marriage or a marriage-like LTR, this all seems entirely reasonable on its face. That’s because we’ve been in quasi-partnerships in short terms arrangements before, and have seen that those things work out. The thing is, those other partnerships were usually with other guys, and primarily in work or school settings, and often they were short-term and/or limited in scope.
      Because you are a guy, and you think like a guy, this whole “partnership marriage” model seems pretty fantastic… its like partnering up with your best friend and roommate to share expenses and upkeep around your house, except that she’s also a hot chick who likes to fuck a lot. You see the “partnership” as a division of labor: she’ll dust, I’ll vacuum; she’ll do the laundry, I’ll wash the dishes; she’ll weed the flower beds, I’ll mow the lawn.
      Vaguely, this idea transfers over to finances and other things as well: her salary is X and mine is Y, so she’ll cover X% of the mortgage and I’ll cover Y%. Or, maybe you don’t plan it out that much. More likely, you’re secretly an evil sexist and you think of her contribution as much less significant on the financial front while her contribution on the home front will be more significant. Regardless, you are still thinking: division of labor, sharing of costs, etc.
      What you don’t understand, however, if that you aren’t marrying your best friend with a hot body who likes to fuck. You are marrying a rationalization hamster. You are marrying a woman who does not think or feel like you do at all. In the pre-marriage stage, she may tell you al the right things, and echo back to you all your plans for a true partnership and a division of labor, but consciously or unconsciously, she isn’t really on the same page at all. All these “plans for the future” you are discussing are not real things to her. They are abstract concepts about things that are totally unimportant to her.
      Compare it to her talking to you about the wedding plans. She is focused on all the details of who will sit where at what dinner and what color flowers will be matched with what color table clothes and how they will accent the bridesmaids dresses. You basically nod along and say “Sounds great, babe” because these are abstract things you don’t give a fuck about. They aren’t real to you in any material or significant way. Guess what? That’s exactly how she feels about all you 50/50 partnership plans. Even if she earnestly desires in her heart, at that moment, to live up to each and every one of you little plans and ideas… none of them are real to her because they haven’t happened yet.
      Yes, she fervently wants the “equality” part of the “partnership marriage” meaning she wants to be able to keep working and doing whatever she wants to do. She also wants to be able to control the choices that are made, such as where you will vacation, what house you will buy, etc. But her motivations for making those choices are going to be, in many cases, very different from yours.
      Also, she doesn’t really want any of the responsibility for anything. She may want to control the checking account and “do the finances” so she can make sure she can buy what she wants when she wants to buy it, but — way back in her hindbrain — she will expect you to make sure there is always enough money in that checking account for her to do what she wants. That’s because, despite all the feminism in the world, there is a part of her that believes you are her husband and you are supposed to take care of things. You are the one who is supposed to make things go right when they go wrong. And if you don’t, she will resent you.
      Take the checking account for example. Suppose you let her take it over because she is a strong, independent woman who wants to feel empowered. Maybe she is a gender studies graduate who took one math class in her entire college career. Maybe she is a CPA who is great with numbers. It doesn’t matter. When something gets screwed up with the checking account, even if you had nothing to do with it, her hamster will be telling her that it is your fault and you need to fix it.
      I could go through a 100 more examples but I’ve already written way too much already. The point is that, as rational and reasonable as that “marriage as a partnership” thing seems to us as men, its a total magic-land fairy tale to women. All that division of labor stuff is completely meaningless because, when Sunday afternoon rolls around and you have mowed the lawn, clipped the hedges and folded all the laundry, when you sit down to watch the football game and she still have a mound of dishes to do and there’s a layer of dust on everything… her hamster is going to be aggravated. You have rationally and reasonably fulfilled your part of the bargain, but none of that means anything to her emotions, and she is going to be pissed.
      Yes, you may have worked a 50-hour work week… but she had to work 30 *whole* hours, and her work is *really hard*. That business dinner you had to go to was long, and boring and you had to actually work making connections, and the rubber chicken dinner was awful… but you got to go out and “hang out with your work buddies at a nice restaurant” while she had to sit at home *alone* and dust the furniture.
      Sure, you had to write a big check to put a down payment on the vacation she wants, and money is a little tight because you just had to fix the bumper on the car she smashed into a telephone poll (because she can’t drive it like that!) while talking on the phone, but she works all day and she *deserves* nice things like a new pair of $500 shoes *for work* and a pedicure and she wants you to make sure you get the suite at beach, not just a regular room, because she really wants to be able to enjoy it and have a good time…
      Again, I’ve rambled on way too long and no one is reading this anymore, but its a really important point. The “partnership marriage” thing seems like a rational, great deal to a guy in theory… but in practice, it never, ever really works like that because a girl is not a guy, and she doesn’t (and really can’t) think or behave like a guy. You cannot reason with the hamster. It cannot be done. If you expect the hamster to be rational and reasonable, you will drive yourself crazy.

      1. Well said, the 50/50 marriage idea is crap. What it comes down to is you have your areas of expertise, she has hers. You earn the money, she feeds the baby at 2 AM. The major decisions fall on your shoulders, she handles the meaningless details. You fix the car, she folds the laundry. Frankly, there are many household things that she does better than me. She is more patient with the kids when it comes to home schooling them, but I have the ability to make some lessons more interesting. She excels in remembering the mundane tasks, where I will forget, or pawn off. With all of this, comes a responsibility for your own niche. In the past 30 years, women as a whole have been neglecting their own responsibilities.

        1. Agreed, it is supposed to be a complementary relationship, not a partnership. But, as a man, you have to understand that, when the shit hits the fan, she will look to you to solve the problems and take care of her. No matter how liberated she is, no matter how much of a feminist she is… even if she hates herself for it. It’s hard-wired into her biological composition. If she has to be the one to fix it — even if it is her fault and you warned her about it — deep down, she will resent you for not fixing it, for not taking care of her like you are supposed to.

        2. That is the thing about feminists, they threw away any redeeming qualities women have, leaving only the crappy parts.

        3. True. Its so ironic that modern “feminists” essentially want to turn women into men. They don’t want women to be the best women they can be, they don’t want them to be “free” or happy, they just want them to be men.

        4. That’s because basically, feminism is founded on envy and jealousy:
          — the universal human envy and jealousy of someone who has what you don’t, or has more of what you have (which also explains how women are attracted to Leftist political systems);
          — the universal female envy of men’s strength and abilities (both physical and mental);
          — ugly women’s envy and jealousy of women who are better-looking.

      3. I’m a married woman and while I may very well be the exception, your description of womens’ financial ineptitude certainly doesn’t apply to me. My husband and I don’t share finances, and all household expenses are split 50/50. When it comes to the larger financial picture, taxes etc…. the responsibility falls on me and I happily oblige. My husband isn’t bad with money—I’d never marry someone who was—but I came into the marriage with significantly more financial acumen– (and the larger portfolio)—thanks to my father teaching me investing principles starting in my teens. I also don’t like to shop; not all women are mindless consumers. As for the rest of the so called marriage partnership: you are correct in that men and women simply don’t think alike and it causes friction. My husband and I are happily married and while I enjoy my financial autonomy et al within my relationship, i can certainly see where the prescripted roles in marriages of the past made day to day life easier (in some ways) for both parties.

        1. Great, I’m really glad that is working out for you and your husband. (And I don’t mean that sarcastically, I really think its awesome when two people can find a way to be happy together.)
          However, I think you have made the very mistake I was trying to illuminate… you have read something written by a man for other men, crafted in the way men speak to one another without women around, and interpreted that as a woman. In doing so, you have misunderstood what I meant by the “marriage as a partnership” concept. More importantly, you have missed my entire point.
          The point was not too say that all women are bad with money or that women shop too much or whatever. I even acknowledged that it doesn’t matter if the woman is a CPA and great with money. I was not advocating for or against “the prescripted roles in marriages of the past” at all, and just because certain of the general examples I used do not apply specifically to you and your husband does not negate the underlying point I was trying to make.
          The point is an underlying biological reality about men and women in relationships. The point is about how a man tends to think through and understand a certain thing versus how a woman tends to view that same thing. There isn’t much reason for me to really dig into it and try to unpack it for you, because while we may be using the same words, we are essentially speaking different languages here. Also, it sounds like you have your shit together and your marriage is fine; assuming that is all true, than there is no reason for us to belabor this point. (In other words, what I was discussing just isn’t for you.)
          If you and your husband are the one-in-a-million couple that works differently than everyone else, great for you. If you happen to have significant enough financial resources and emotional health that you can avoid those basic biological realities that many others face, great for you. If you happen to have been raised in a situation where you were taught ways of thinking and behaving that override the biological imperatives that would otherwise create conflicts in this area in your marriage, great for you.
          None of the specifics about your own personal situation disprove or discount the general underlying rule.

        2. I agree my situation amounts to nothing more than anecdotal evidence. I also don’t disagree with you that men and women do think differently. Hell, watch two opposite sex toddlers and you’ll observe the male/female approach to most situations is fairly different (and innate). I also acknowledged in my last post that theses differences can cause friction between spouses. But to suggest my husband and I are a complete statistical rarity is a bit of a stretch. Male and female differences have always existed and marriage has been a longstanding institution in our and almost every other culture. Clearly these differences can be overcome. I certainly don’t think anyone is under any obligation to get married these days, but suggesting biological imperatives are an impediment to a happy union is a specious argument. History has proven otherwise. As for shopping addictions, poor money management and general laziness: well that’s a disaster in the making either way (and yes I realize those examples were not your overarching argument-but those specific behaviours aren’t biologically driven either).

        3. Biological imperatives are a HUGE impediment to a happy union. They are perhaps the biggest impediment to a happy union that both men and women face in maintaining a happy relationship. History has proven this time and time again. Cultural and societal controls have developed to try to curb our biological imperatives and foster healthy monogamous unions for raising children. The entire concept of marriage itself was basically created as a social counter to men’s and women’s different, baser biological imperatives and to foster lasting unions between them.
          My point, which remains elusive to you, is not about marriage, or partnership, it is that the modern “marriage as a partnership” concept sold to men is a fallacy because the way men think about a partnership and the way women think about a partnership is totally different (generally speaking). As I said before, this is not something you will be able to understand because it is not for you. You do not think of “partnership” the way I am using it, so you interpret my comments about “partnership” into your way of thinking, which negates the underlying truth that I am conveying to other men. This is not because you are stupid, this is not because you are irrational, this is not because of some fault of yours, it is because it is not how you think about it. If I explained how men think about it, you would say that is wrong or try to argue that “partnership” really means something else, because that’s not how you, as a woman, think about it.
          Again, as I said, we are using the same words, but speaking different languages. It’s like we are discussing scoring points in football but you are talking about soccer and I am talking about American football. Its a different game with different rules, concepts and strategies, so your arguments just don’t apply.

        4. You have interesting points. Frankly it’s always bemused me that marriage is the only legally binding contract wherein there are no real defined terms. You wouldn’t by a car, or a house, or enter a business partnership under vague promises of “loyalty” or “support”. In addition to this, the contract itself doesn’t include any opt out clauses, despite either party having this available. Those are determined and enforced by the state. A comparable scenario would be for an individual to a lease a car, with no defined contractual terms, but when said lessee fails to fulfil the lease (as loosely defined), the government steps in. A terrible deal for everyone involved when looked at with this lense.

        5. That’s an interesting way of looking at it. This is actually venturing away from the point I was originally trying to make, but it is interesting.
          If you know anything about law, you can actually have a binding contract with out any written or even express terms. Using the car lease example, if all car leases in a legal jurisdiction are understood by the parties to have the same terms (i.e., everyone knows you pay $x dollars every month, the lessee is responsible for all damage while driving the car, whatever, etc.), then when you enter into a car lease without written or express terms, then you are legally bound to follow those kind of usual-and-customary terms.
          Marriage, at one time, had a lot of these usual-and-customary kind of terms… defined roles and obligations, customary norms of behavior. These terms were not so much enforced by the court (although they could be in some circumstances) as they were enforced by society, culture, family, community, etc. Over time, that deal changed. I would argue that the terms changed much more for one side of the marriage, the female side, than the male side. I’d also argue that, to the extent there are still legal and social/cultural obligations and expectations attached to marriage, they are much more likely to be enforced against the male than the female… especially the legal obligations, obviously.

        6. Well I don’t disagree with your points, but the jurisdiction I live in (and I actually work in this area) has no implied terms in a contract such as a car lease. Everything must be in writing and any ambiguities within the contract are actually read in favor of the least educated party (in the case of a car lease it would be in favor of the lessee rather than the dealer). You are correct though that marriage at one time had customary and universally accepted terms. However, the very laws/customs that were created to protect women (during a time when women did need protection—in so much as they didn’t work and there was a stigma attached to being divorced) are no longer necessary. Moreover they leave women with the opportunity to abuse said protections. Not all women abuse this power, but I agree the deal is fairly one sided these days. In the event our divorce, legally my husband could take me to the cleaners to some extent. Socially though, that move on his part would be frowned upon. If the roles were reversed however, me pulling the same move would be far more socially acceptable. It’s not right or fair, and I don’t have the solution. In the absence of 2 people sitting down with their lawyers and hashing out the agreement (I’m a romantic at heart lol!)—here’s hoping cultural norms catch up to the realities of the current climate.

    7. >Either you jump in with both feet and have a traditional marriage with a traditional wife. (Virgin, attend church, no TV, home school, wife stays home, etc.)
      I would not do that beginning with church since religion is bullshit but even worse then that is religion is full of manginas nowadays the church is on the level of feminism.
      Letting women speak, preach, lead, telling them telling them about empowerment bullshit, encourage divorce all sorts of shit churches tell you.
      Also fuck no TV and fuck homeschooling since the kids would need to see the world for what it is (shit).

    8. Yep basically you got to dedicate your whole life raising kids or half ass it and get financially raped by the court.
      Either way not worth it.

      1. What is the point of life? That may need to be a question you need to answer for yourself.

  8. Having boys is a good investment but nowadays more girls are being born. Even the male spermatozoons end up like “girls”. The world does not need more self-entitled little princesses, does it?
    Are Toxic Chemicals Turning Boys Into Girls?
    Male births have been in decline for decades, while researchers say developmental genital damage from chemical exposure can become hereditable. Endocrine Disruptors Sabotage the Male Fetus.
    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/are-toxic-chemicals-turning-boys-girls-0

    1. I would agree that a father’s work is harder than ever these days. Raising a young man goes very much against the tides of popular culture/education….

      1. I mean not to take away from the difficulty of it all but the whole wrestling of saber tooth tigers also seemed kinda rough.

      2. I am not sure it is harder, but I think the problems begin around puberty when fathers start distancing themselves from their sons or stop being as active with their future as they were during their childhood. That seems to happen regardless if the father is a single father or in a marriage. But society doesn’t help with it’s consistent message of the uselessness of men and all the equality messages for women.

  9. Here is a very cool article!
    A nice and clean exposition of some of the pros and some of the cons to getting married. This is something we sorely needed here and I congratulate the author on it. In a time when articles on this theme are either butt hurt MGTOW faggots complaining that women are shit or alpha signaling douche bags talking about how all real men need to have families, understanding that there are ups and downs to both choices is really key.
    The truth is that every choice we make as men will come with ups and downs and the important thing is to understand them to the best of our ability, make our choice, accept the negatives and relish in the positives. Is getting married “good for men?” No. It is, however, good for some men. Men who desire the positive aspects of married life and are willing to accept the downsides will find that marriage is good for them. Men predisposed to married life who don’t get married will find they feel something in life is lacking. ON the other hand, men for whom the downsides out weight the upsides or men, like myself, who simply do not like the idea of marriage would be miserable if placed in that situation and will find other things to give their life meaning and fulfillment.
    Again, way to go on a much needed article. I hope this signals a change from the standard “the way I live my life is right and everyone else is Hitler” tenor that this topic tends to bring out of people.

    1. There’s a downside to everything.
      Modern western culture imposes a difficult onus on men to stay faithful to their wives over decades. Older societies recognized how difficult this is and tolerated men having mistresses while maintaining the legal construct of their marriage. Marriage was seen as an important political and societal institution. In the modern west women will demolish a marriage if their husband seeks another woman and the gyno-centric culture advocates this. Other cultures simply accept it as normal behavior and the wife maintains her status and power in the family structure.

      1. I have no disagreement with what you are saying, but fail to see the point. You see the downside and you either accept it and, as Jim said above, jump in with both feet or you don’t. What you don’t do is jump in with one foot, jump in with both feet and do nothing but complain about it or avoid doing something you want because you are afraid.

      3. That “status and power” is a hollow victory. Women, as said here so often, need attention. Yes, monogamy is impossibly difficult for men and when they maintain it for any real length of time they tend to become miserable, resentful creatures. But if you cheat, you transfer your attention from wife to mistress. Now the wife becomes a miserable witch. That’s why they divorce you. Inevitably, someone will be unhappy. Just a question of which one. Is there a way around this?

        1. “…monogamy is impossibly difficult for men and when they maintain it for any real length of time they tend to become miserable, resentful creatures”
          I disagree, saying it is impossible is to lower people to the level of animals, unable to understand and control their behavior and uphold their vows. A denial of responsibility for decisions they make.

        2. “a denial of responsibility for decisions they make” Like, oops I’m accidentally pregnant? Or, oops I cheated on you?
          No, not impossible, m a. Just impossibly difficult. 🙂 A burden. I know some men are capable of enormous self discipline – often more so than the average woman. But while it can be done, it’s such a lot to ask of a man, especially a man surrounded by options, and it leaves them frustrated and unsatisfied. (Numerous RoK posts attest to that). I accept men require variety above all. I could cry over that all day, and have, but it would be unfair to beat them up for it.
          Either way, “status and power in the family structure” isn’t much consolation.

        3. When women age they could care less about the “attention” of their paunchy, boring, nice guy husbands. They would much rather boss around the servants, or children, and spend money like water, while the husband is gone as much as possible (major holidays, birthdays, and anniversaries excepted). As long as they don’t get embarrassed with their circle of women friends, they don’t care where his dick goes. The one place it isn’t going is into her pussy.

        4. You’ve endured quite a lot, Mr Diver.
          You’re saying a typical older wife in a longterm marriage will grow as bored and disinterested in her husband as he will in her?

    2. MGTOW used to be what you, me and others on this website do.
      Nowadays, MGTOW is just involuntary celibacy.

      1. I noticed that. I started by saying MGTOW was a good thing. Men ought to go their own way. Then I used MGTOW+ to separate what I felt “going your own way” meant from what a bunch of closet fags and chin beards did. Now I have abandoned the term altogether as it is just a shibboleth by which absurd losers can identify one another.

        1. Like a true gentleman is a guy that can run over someone and kick their ass (James Bond) but doesn’t due to self restraint, is often hijacked by the pretty boy simp who is weak and non confrontational (polite). The MGTOW term should be reserved to the guys who can get all the women they want, but choose not to, has been hijacked by the omegas who can’t score other than with prostitutes.

        2. This is one way of looking at it. I originally looked at MGTOW as men who simply opted out of committed relationships and were honest about it upfront with women they dated. “this is about having fun and not about you and I being partners because I am a man that goes his own way” when the virgin aspect of things crept in as necessary rather than by choice I have no idea.

        3. That’s what I thought when I first heard about MGTOW a few years ago.
          I can see the pragmatist approach of cost/benefit analysis or even the “it’s my nature that I’m following,” but I don’t get being ruled by fear. One of several reasons I dislike labels is that they are almost always short of fully descriptive or all-encompassing.
          Something some married guys have done is to succeed in a form of masculinity test wherein they have overridden all the forces against their success with their grit, wit, and determination to stay master of their home, self, and family and that’s worthy by any metric. It may or may not turn out to be for me in the end, but I can respect that pretty easily.

        4. As was said of Teddy Roosevelt by his contempories, “The nicest gentleman ever to slit a throat.”

      2. I think of mgtow as a spectrum of unwed men:
        INCEL on the bad end, PUA on the good end.

      3. Nonsense. Some still fuck others don’t. Just know the risks going in and be willing to pay the price if the consequences hit.
        Some ill take that some won’t. Some have money, some don’t. Some have been married some haven’t. Some were even PUAs once and some weren’t. I’ve known all kinds.

    3. ” A man is a thing of many divisions, not a pure, clear flame such as you once were. His intellect often wars with his emotions, his will with his desires . . . his ideals are at odds with his environment, and if he follows them, he knows keenly the loss of that which was old, but if he does not follow them, he feels the pain of having forsaken a new and noble dream.
      Whatever he does represents both a gain and a loss, an arrival and a departure. Always he mourns that which is gone and fears some part of that which is new. Reason opposes tradition. Emotions oppose the restrictions his fellow men lay upon him.”
      – Roger Zelazny, ‘Lord of Light’

  10. The pro marriage arguments are pretty weak. As long as we have gynocentric laws like no fault divorce or women winning most of the custody battles, then marriage remains as emotional and financial suicide for men, the problem is a lot deeper than women acting like sluts. We need to completely separate women from politics, education, and most importantly the workforce, the nuclear family cannot coexist under egalitarianism.
    Raising kids is also getting a lot worse. Besides the obvious poison the education system has become by teaching kids to accept Islam or anal sex as normal on top of communism, governments in most places are either tightening their grip on private education, or getting rid of it all together, not to mention that most people I know who have kids can barely spend time with them due to having to work like a horse just to feed them. So I’m going to work my ass off just so the government can raise my kids? No thanks.
    Marriage and family is very important, but as long as the government keeps it as the minefield they’ve turned it into with almost a hundred years of (((feminism))), then most guys will keep choosing not to get blown up.

  11. Been married only once to the same woman for over 17 years now. Here is my take on it.
    1. It is the best environment for raising children – Kinda a no brainer retarded response. In this Kali Yuga called post-modern globalism to thrust an innocent soul into this thresher is an act of egotistical pride and a willful denial of Reality. I would view it as a sadistic act based solely on Pride…
    2. It’s the only way to build a dynasty – You build a dynasty with money and power. Sorry asshole but Today the corporations rule. Big powerful families are not something that can be reasonably done anymore. DFACS will take your children away in an instant for practically no reason, your children ARE property of the State. Walton Mountain has been strip-mined by Conglomo…
    3. Being married is good for men – This asshole is obviously not married or if he is his marriage is not more than 2 years old. Getting sex from the same woman gets OLD real FAST!!! Piss her off? One call to 911 and you WILL be arrested and not allowed on your own property…
    All in all I view marriage as a desperate act by a lonely man who romantically seeks his “soul-mate” whom he thinks he will be able to share his life with, have companionship and regular satisfying sex. Maybe 100 years ago it was awesome but Today it is just an alternative to a forced work camp – gulag…

    1. You have obviously not been true to yourself and have made a terrible mistake. Abort and try another path.

      1. That’s the problem with modernity;
        Things Not Going Your Way?
        Abort, Divorce, Scrape Off The Barnacles and Move On!
        I view these modern trends as purely selfish acts of narcissism…

        1. Like my stepdad used to say when a child got tired of a toy, “Throw it away and get a new one.” (Sarcasm.)

        3. his screenname would make for a great cartoon series, 10 yr old gunslingin kid fights crime in modern day NYC

        4. Life is NOT about happiness. This is an illusion, a bag of rotten lies that has been sold to us. Life is not about happiness, security and contentment but one of constant striving, grappling, overcoming and being overcome. I can’t remember the last time I met a truly happy person; plenty of bury your head in the sand – over the top optimistic people living on Fantasy Island (Boss! Boss! The Plane! The Plane!) But just like sand through the hourglass, so are the days/happiness of our lives. Happiness is a very temporal and fleeting emotion, nothing more. As a matter of fact just look at how many of our emotions are negative rather than positive – list off internet, don’t exactly agree with everything that is classified as emotions here but you should get my point; Affection, Anger, Angst, Anguish, Annoyance, Anticipation, Anxiety, Apathy, Arousal, Awe, Boredom, Confidence, Contempt, Contentment, Courage, Curiosity, Depression, Desire, Despair, Disappointment, Disgust, Distrust, Ecstasy, Embarrassment, Empathy, Envy, Euphoria, Fear, Frustration, Gratitude, Grief, Guilt, Happiness, Hatred, Hope, Horror, Hostility, Humiliation, Interest, Jealousy, Joy, Loneliness, Love, Lust, Outrage, Panic, Passion, Pity, Pleasure, Pride, Rage, Regret, Remorse, Resentment, Sadness, Saudade, Schadenfreude, Self-confidence, Shame, Shock, Shyness, Sorrow, Suffering, Surprise, Trust, Wonder, Worry.
          Our “HAPPINESS” which we demand as if it were a right is little more than narcissism in disguise IMHO…

        6. Thanks for the helping hand though. All the best to you and yourn…

    2. Best and most accurate response I’ve seen on ROK in a while. Well done, gent!!

  12. Just remember: no hymen, no diamond. Women are designed to adapt to the first man that they are with- all part of the plan. You marry a woman who isn’t virtuous, you get what’s coming to you. Also, this ensures more of what you wanted anyway- easy and frequent sex. Fewer hang-ups about intimacy and you can mold her to your desires. Far less likely to run off with the local bad boy after a few years, as well.

      1. “I’d give have a mil to be able to take a leak without it hurting…”

      3. Interesting, OT factoid:
        Meyer Lansky himself called up that guy after the movie premier to congratulate him.

        1. Interesting factoid: Meyer Lansky founded Resorts International, the casino company Trump “bought” back in the late 1980s.

      4. Nay, you’re confusing this with the other saying I use to warn my bride about the dangers of the knee-man: “no hymie two-timey!”

        5. What’s the definition of a virgin. A 15-year-old girl who can outrun her 16-year-old brother.

        7. well then women ought to get themselves to a star trek convention or comic con and find themselves a quality man.

    2. You are partially correct. I knew a girl with her hymen intact, but the amount of cock that passed through her mouth and ass would make a professional hooker vomit. While its a positive signal, an intact hymen itself is not enough.

      1. absolutely. I knew two girls in my life, both Christians, who would suck a train load of cock and get their asses piped out on the regular just to remain virgins.

        1. This one was a ‘very Catholic’ girl. She even argue (showing her skills in ‘hermeneutics’) that the Bible doesn’t say a thing about blowjobs….lol

        2. one of my two was a catholic as well…the bible also doesn’t mention not fucking penguins tho….the other had some hippy born again parents who went all fire and brimstone in the late 70’s

  13. No fault divorce would not be such a big problem if child support laws and alimony were reformed to the point of being effectively eliminated. If one parent cannot support a child without outside help then that parent should be disqualified from having physical custody.

  14. The decision is difficult in our time. Finding a non degenerate woman to have a family with in the west is hard but not impossible. For any men who are married/fathers and have taken the red pill, or any guys looking to save their marriage, check out our blog
    https://www.akingscastle.com

    1. I endorse this advertisement. They know what they are talking about there.

        1. I endorse bem’s endorsement of jim’s endorsement of akingscastle’s advertisement

        3. You are like the fro-yo of endorsements….self-serve

        6. Not sure if you are or were a Weird Al Fan but he had a great song called One More Minute with the lyric
          I guess I might seem kinda bitter
          you’ve got me feeling down in the dumps
          ’cause I’m stranded alone at the gas station of love
          and I have to use the self-service pumps

        7. That takes me back, my pickup ate that tape, so I hadn’t heard it in decades.

        8. If I am not mistaken that album was Dare to Be Stupid

        9. Thats right, along side “Girls just want to have lunch”, I want a new duck, and Yoda….

        11. His odd genius grows with every passing year. There was a petition to get him to play the Super Bowl halftime show.

        12. I endorse bem’s endorsement, but disavow lolknee and Jim’s endorsements completely.

        13. …. Ralph the Wonder Llama has just completed the interview process and will be taking over …

        16. please edit the “U” in duck with an “I” as I originally read it. It will increase the comedic value by about 525%.

        17. Actually, he’d almost be obligated to parody prior half-time performances. The nipple slip, being hoisted from the rafters, ….

    2. I have yet to hear practical advice on how to find a noble woman to start a family with in the States. If anyone knows, and has anything better to offer than going to church or volunteering, please advise.

      1. 1) Find a good-looking woman of prime child-bearing age.
        2) Marry her.
        3) Have her vocal cords cut.
        4) Get her a lobotomy.

        1. The lobotomy is redundant these days. The schools, and especially the colleges, have pre-lobotomized the women of the west.

        1. Can you recommend a specific section or article of this site? I checked it out, but only saw good advice for men who are already married.

      3. Lots of it goes into recognizing red flags and heeding the warnings. You see a bunch of slut tells? drop her like the slut she is. Wasting money? same thing.

        1. Yes, that’s great advice for weeding out the unsuitable but does nothing for finding/targeting the suitable. Every girl I see is raising red flags indicating deal breakers. Which leaves the original puzzle of how to find a good girl in the States without going to a more conservative country.

        1. I don’t understand what you mean by this, could you be more specific?

        2. Approach every non-horrendous girl you see. Date many. Clues and signs will abound, allowing you to weed out the flakes.

        3. I’m going to go Deppak Chopra on you for this one so be ready.
          What you seek will not be found. Sometimes the harder you search for something, the more elusive it becomes, all the while it was there sitting right under your nose the whole time.
          Be that which you want to have. Have that which you want. You won’t have to move a square mile if you know what I am getting at. This is a journey all men must make. Just being who you are will be enough.
          Nobody can tell you to go here or there or do this or that. If the fear of ending up with a slut is your underlying subconscious desire, you will find that. So give up your search now. Be that which you want to have, have that which you want, and let the world work for you.

        4. I appreciate your good intentions, but you’ve grossly misread the scenario. I already am everything I desire. I’ve accomplished every goal I’ve set for myself professionally, physically, financially and spiritually. I’m a happy man, but I want to create a family and dynasty; I simply need a good woman to do so and am reaching out to like minded men to network a solution. There is no “subconscious desire to end up with a slut” as you say.

      5. How about we fathers start networking as we raise decent daughters? Seems a sensible solution, since you’re getting an “product” that you know was raised right by a red pill father. Not talking selling daughters here (although, hey….why not? heh) but rather much like high society used to do introductions between good matches back in the day, for maximum benefit of both families.
        Just tossing that out there.

        1. Great idea. Like minded men grouping together building like minded societies. Exactly what the establishment dreads.

        2. It used to work like this not long time ago. Before all that romanticism crap + feminist degeneration. The idea of randomly finding your “true one” is ridiculous.

        3. Yup, bullshit.
          Before all the flowery stuff about marriage, it was conducted like a merging of two corporations. As it should be. And then that person would become your true one.

  15. It’s a catch 22. If you get married, you’re screwed by the state and if you don’t, you become a genetic dead end and grow old bitter and twisted. Either way you lose!

        1. Do you know this as first hand information because I have totally had you pegged as a virgin who gets fucked in the ass for a while now.

    3. Because, after all, there simply are NO successful, happy, fulfilling marriages, ever.

      2. Nothing is ever completely happy and fulfilling, That is part of living in a fallen world. For the most part, I think it has the potential to be more fulfilling and bringing more happiness than the alternative.

        1. THis is another thing: people who think that they should bail out because something isn’t perfectly happy and fulfilling are f’n nuts. What kind of shangrila do these fucking morons want to live in?

        2. The same world of lollipops and unicorns and glitter that the feminists want to.

        6. Thornton Melon: Oh, you left out a bunch of stuff.
          Dr. Phillip Barbay: Oh really? Like what for instance?
          Thornton Melon: First of all you’re going to have to grease the local politicians for the sudden zoning problems that always come up. Then there’s the kickbacks to the carpenters, and if you plan on using any cement in this building I’m sure the teamsters would like to have a little chat with ya, and that’ll cost ya. Oh and don’t forget a little something for the building inspectors. Then there’s long term costs such as waste disposal. I don’t know if you’re familiar with who runs that business but I assure you it’s not the boyscouts.
          Dr. Phillip Barbay: That will be quite enough, Mr. Melon! Maybe bribes, kickbacks and Mafia payoffs are how YOU do business! But they are NOT part of the legitimate business world! And they are certainly not part of anything I am doing in this class. Do I make myself clear, Mr. Melon!
          Dr. Phillip Barbay: …now, not withstanding Mr. Mellon’s input. The next question for us is where to build our factory?
          Thornton Melon: how ’bout fantasyland?

        7. Good part of that scene was the other students perking up and taking notes….
          That was a solid movie. Loved the scene where they come back to the dorm rooms and they’ve been converted into a massive suite.

    4. Whether you become twisted and bitter is completely up to you. It is a choice, and if that is not who you want to be, don’t become that person.

  16. I said it before: the problem is not marriage as institution, the problem is the lack of marriage material; sadly there are no unicorns out there.

  18. The article nails exactly why marriage is a tightrope for guys, especially with respect to divorce, alimony and child support. For those of you who don’t know much about divorce laws, check out the documentary Divorce Corp on Netflix (assuming it’s still there)… I’d say it does a good job explaining it.
    I remember every older law student/lawyer I ever met while in law school telling me NEVER to do family law. It burns people out the quickest when seeing the ugliest side of human nature, which is yet another reason I went to compliance.
    As for marriage itself, I would say it’s a good thing if she meets 3 criteria:
    1. Center-right politics (the further right the better): my fiancee is very receptive to the lessons taught here at ROK and other places.
    2. Still part of a nuclear family: By this I mean, if she’s still connected to her family, respects them, and actually takes their advice on tough issues.
    3. Has self respect: if she hates instagram, cooks for herself, and eats right/works out consistently, that’s usually a good sign.
    Granted, these are all tough to find…. but if men collectively decided not to marry toxic women…. maybe future generations would see that and begin to question feminism’s values, especially if the result is an overabundance of cat ladies.

    1. May I add, 4. a strong moral code: A girl has to be self disciplined to avoid the temptation of cock, wasting money, or lying to you.

      1. Of course, consider that phase 2 of the process. The three that I listed, are good “anti-red flags”, I suppose

      2. Sounds good in theory but no girl will ever resist any of these, if she thinks that she won’t be caught doing it. At least she will be like this in front of her parents and when she tries to bait a guy to marry her.

    2. Future is here. The current younger ladies are already questioning feminism and mainly the hideous girls are still biting the bullet. I am meeting far more feminists that are not talking any of their points publicly or are just as eager to get in on a good sexist joke.
      Know someone in compliance law as well. Seems to be a fairly lucrative, safe field, especially in metropolis’ like New York.

      2. Feminism has jumped the shark long ago, it is about time the public realized this.

      3. Just in the past month I’ve seen a local truck go by (and I know this guy is still in his teens) and his license plate said “Redpill” and I was at the grocer talking to a girl that graduated high school last year who said to me: “I like men who act like men.” before grabbing my hand and writing her number on it. (That was a first in many ways). No political conversation so far (other than she voted Trump), likes to be blindfolded, wears cowboy boots, and is in to Dutch oven cooking.

        1. There you go. Heard the same thing from a girl in her early twenties from the South. She said she voted Trump too. And the feminist in my office goes back and forth with me on sexist jokes all the times. If she is lucky, we might accidentally have sex one day but for now, she knows how to crack a good joke and likes real men. The times are changing.

        2. As far as women are concerned words are for romance and deception.

        3. Esther Villar much? Doesn’t matter the words If her actions please me.

        4. Yep, and y’all read my posts the other day about more girls “virtue signaling” for right wing men in a positive way.

        5. Watch your back on that feminist. She might crack a sexist joke with you today, but tomorrow her hamster might decide its offended and turn you in to HR.

        7. Or go the black knight route— turn her into HR for having offended you with the jokes. You put up with it this long out of fear but now consider it be creating a hostile work environment.

        8. Nice thought, but you always have to consider that you are dealing with a feminist. You pull a stunt like that, the next day the cops show up to arrest you for raping her.

        9. If need be I’ll just fuck HR too. Done it before. Can be decent job security.

        10. It’s one of those – first one to the chalk board wins, her attempt will come off as a blatant attempt at retaliation.

      4. Two girls from my law school class consider themselves feminists, but when you look at their habits… it’s obvious that they call themselves that to justify their sleeping around. One of them had a notch count of “25” that doubled by the time we graduated 3 years later. The other is a single mom who went thru 5 guys by the time we graduated.
        I think that’s the feminist divide these days… old shriveled up cat ladies who can’t ride the carousel/young ones on the carousel (both of whom need a way to rationalize their behavior)… the rest are fat and have blue hair.

        1. I’ve been saying for years that every action has an equal opposite reaction. The youngest girls (16, 17) are looking at the insanity that leftist feminism has become, at their thirtysomething aunt who spouts feminist platitudes but drinks a bottle of wine every night and got fat bitches about the world and has the glassy-eyed stare of the heavily medicated.
          Many of them will be turning in the opposite direction.
          For us? That could mean a new generation of non-tatted, non-hypersexualized, healthy eating, compliant young women. Prepare.

        2. imagine if people told the truth in their dating profiles?
          “over the hill, ball busting lawyer whore ready to settle down”

        3. “guy”
          “guy”
          “dude”
          “fat” x 10 million
          “cat lady”
          “fatal attraction is my bible”
          “guy”
          “someone pay my rent”
          “petri dish”
          “this is what I looked like once”
          “I will cut you”
          “Look at me” x 5million
          “I think I’m a guy”
          “I think I’m a wombat”
          That idea would single-handedly bring comedy back while using the other to masturbate.

        4. I often compose profiles for myself in my head:
          “overweight, immature guy seeks obedient 19 yo nympho into dressing like a slut. Must like “Family Guy””

        6. this reminded me of one of my favorite Martin and Lewis routines

        7. Artists and Models is a personal favorite.
          I really like Jerry’s Vincent the Vulture ramblings in his sleep, the stairwell phone call where Dean’s character is invited to the Stork Club, and the Lucky Song number down the sidewalk that Dean does.

        8. same here on artists and models.
          One of the things that truly makes me sad in life is that I will never go to the Stork Club when it was in its prime.

        10. Copa as well. There are a few places in NYC that really capture, as best as is possible in 2017, that Copa/Stork Club kind of vibe. They are very expensive, they will ask you to leave if you aren’t properly attired and they are just absolutely wonderful.

        11. Very close to what has happened with my daughters evaluating their mother’s life choices, and being exposed to the insanity of the feminist/gender identity folks at college. Their values have turned more conservative on social issues and personal conduct.

    3. Those are excellent guide-posts. On the surface they seem superficial, but they are suggestive of much deeper values and ideals.

    5. Unfortunately those qualities are not enough. My ex-wife had all of them — close to family, called her mother every day, cooked like a maniac, exercised, and had no politics whatsoever. However, she was still a raging narcissistic whore who frivorced me simply because she got bored.
      Lesson: There is no bulletproof marriage.

      1. That’s unfortunate. Sure, there’s no guarantee, but these ‘clues’ are generally sound ones. You might just be “lucky”….

      2. Of course, that’s why picking up on that early and maintaining frame are always important.
        In my case, I guess I’m lucky because my fiancee is ultra shy, thus removing the hypergamous element… AND she’s ultra religious/addicted to my dick.
        I think that’s a solid combo… that and she was raised in an ultra traditional bubble that she hasn’t fully ventured out of.

        1. I like shy women too. They seem vulnerable and feminine.
          But I wouldn’t take it to mean she’s any less risky. When she comes out of her shell, you don’t really know what may emerge.

        2. Women are the queens of fashion and what “seems” to be true. Shyness seems vulnerable, but most women practice the appearance as such as passive aggressiveness. They get the men to make all the moves while she critiques to demand he conform to her demands.
          There’s also a factor common in men and women both (including here): laziness. Going out for “day game” and making approaches is amazingly emotionally painful. There’s also significant social risk in that failed approaches or proposals can mark the person as a loser to other prospects.

      3. Bingo! It’s a crapshoot. Women get bored easily. And the system lures her away with Cash and Prizes and promises of adventure and excitement. You know…YOLO and stuff.
        No man should feel like he _has_ to get married. You can have kids without getting married.
        But if you do, have an exit strategy that doesn’t leave you a penniless serf.

        1. “an exit strategy that doesn’t leave you a penniless serf”
          Sum total, when the hammer came down, my bank account had about $25,000 more than it did a year earlier. Zero money from her; it was a combination of secret personal stash, hard work, a generous employer gift, and some luck.
          I took the money and went on a six-month sabbatical and banged spectacular women. Now I jokingly tell men to get divorced if they want to improve their bottom line lol.

    6. Being a family law lawyer is also the most dangerous. It is much more dangerous than being a mob lawyer.

  19. People lack understanding of what marriage is today and it’s an interesting muse to wonder what exactly will take place before it gets back on track.
    Marriage is the transfer of property rights of a woman from her father to the man he chooses to be her husband. If a man becomes “one flesh” with another man’s daughter, without the father’s consent, the two are still “married”. The father can take his daughter back and get restitution from the man for the theft if he chooses or the father can bless the union.
    So, there is no such thing as “sleeping with a woman but not marrying her” except in the minds of contemporary people who’ve never studied the Bible and the Author’s definition of marriage.
    Also, without the death penalty judgment for marital infidelity put rightly back in place, men will always disregard societies half ass replacement “deterrent” and sleep with other men’s women given the opportunity. God’s law is perfect, just like the Bible says, and holds the answers to fix society.
    Also, while I’m on my rant on this, somewhat related is a point that comes to mind regarding something I see said from time to time (not related to the article but the topic somewhat) that is mistaken. There is no such thing as a male “virgin”. Men don’t have hymens to pop, thus they cannot be virgins.

    1. Death penalty might be a little harsh, there, Rabbi….’cuz while God’s law may be perfect, we sure as fuk aint.

      1. we are still stoning people to death for wearing clothing with blended fabrics or growing different crops in the same field though right?

        2. Seems like you’re confusing some of the added and fulfilled Mosaic covenant ordinances with the everlasting moral law contained in the commandments, statutes, and judgments.
          Doth God take care for blended fabrics? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written.
          “Growing different crops in the same field” is alive and well, just like all unrestrained lawlessness is and ever will be with humans. Just ask Monsanto. I’m sure they’re especially grateful we observe no laws against hybrid seeds
          Mocking God’s morality, whether you believe it has been abolished or not, is of course every person’s prerogative.

        3. actually, I wasn’t mocking gods morality….just your moralizing.

        4. Study Jewish law: the ritual laws were never intended for the entire world, just the ethical ones (non Jews may wear, eat and to certain extent, do whatever they please)
          Judaism never had a vision of everybody being Jewish
          Second, not every single violation carries the death penalty
          Punishments can range from lashes, fines, or servitude
          The prohibited of mixing wool and linen in particular (other fabrics are fine) is to teach us a symbolic idea of not clashing the animal drives of humanity with the spiritual realm
          No-one has ever been put to death for not observing this rule!

        5. “Judaism never had a vision of everybody being Jewish”
          which is why I think it’s primitive and can’t accept it.

        6. It’s rather interesting me that you would regard the idea that Jews do not try to convert the world to as primitive
          We do want the whole world to accept monotheism as the origin of ethics and morality
          We as a group recognise that Christianity spread this idea throughout the world
          If it wasn’t for Abraham, western culture probably wouldn’t exist

        7. No birthright.
          No ‘chosen people’.
          No one is born closer to God than anyone else.

      2. Rabbis endorse Talmudic “law” not God’s law.
        If a man is so “imperfect” he can’t keep his member out of another man’s woman, and if a wife is so “imperfect” she can’t seem to keep men besides her husband from between her legs, the righteous thing to do according to God is to eliminate such people from their family and ultimately society destroying behavior. The problem in Western countries is too many such “imperfect” people.
        The death penalty is “harsh” and it is supposed to be. Humans with no regard for their neighbor only regard their own skin. I guarantee you all it would take is a few examples to be made for any given capital crime and you’d find wicked behavior, such as marital infidelity, all but dry up in a nation. Ultimately, that is God’s prerogative to deem what is and is not a capital crime. Men trust God and believe in His wisdom and righteousness. Societies built on those principles are successful as history witnesses.
        “For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.” – Deuteronomy 30

        4. Exactly why the jews needed (yet unfortunately rejected) Christ so badly….
          Humans are fallen and imperfect, so no amount of punishment and ‘weeding out’ of the nogoodniks is going to get us back to Eden. The only Way (back) is through acceptance of Christ’s sacrifice and earnest repentance. And as you say -“it is God’s prerogative to deem what is and is not a capital crime”, so He alone judges when a sinner is truly repentant.

        5. yerp
          From Paul’s letter to the Hebrews (and Shebrews)
          Look, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will complete a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 9 “It will not be like the covenant that I made with their fathers, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not continue in my covenant and I had no regard for them, says the Lord. 10 “For this is the covenant that I will establish with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and I will inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God and they will be my people. 11 “And there will be no need at all for each one to teach his countryman or each one to teach his brother saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ since they will all know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 “For I will be merciful toward their evil deeds, and their sins I will remember no longer.”
          Translation: no more stoning and enjoy the pork/

        6. If a man is so “imperfect” he can’t keep his member out of another man’s woman, and if a wife is so “imperfect” she can’t seem to keep men besides her husband from between her legs, the righteous thing to do according to God is to eliminate such people from their family and ultimately society destroying behavior.

          You might want to read 2 Samuel 12.

        7. Well done as usual Brother Lolknee.
          I’m no biblical scholar, but I have come across a few subtle and not so subtle cases of Jesus pulling a ‘V.L. Gambini Esq.’ on the old testament:
          “evry-ting that guy said is BULLshit…thank you”
          In short, one can drone on about ‘God’s Law’ and the ‘Law of Moses’ being synonymous, but it just aint so – the second Moses or Aaron or whomever took it upon themselves to deliver or translate ‘God’s Word’s’ the words became human and therefore imperfect and corrupted.
          Which is why Christ basically said ‘dont sweat the Fine Print.’

        8. bingo. with Christ there is a new covenant and the law is love. If you want to break this down in the philosophical jargon the morality shift was from legalistic to deontological.
          Prior to Christ there was the law. This is the whole shebang. It is a simple religion really….here are 613 commandments…don’t break any and you are good.
          The Sermon on the Mount changed that shit. Christ says that it is what is in a mans heart that matters, not what he does. It is my favorite bit. It is where Jesus straight up shows what was and then what is now. You have heard it said unto you before that thou shalt not commit murder (commandment) but I say unto you now that he amongst you who has ever been stuck in traffic has already committed the sin of murder. You have heard it said that thou shalt not commit adultery, but he amongst you whom hath spanked it whilst thinking of Instagram whores has already committed adultery.
          This is big. This is why Christianity is so interesting. This is the first time when people are told that simply following the rules ain’t gonna cut it but rather what they feel in their heart matters. Oh and guess what, literally everyone already fucked up always. Then Matthew 5:40 et al when he starts going on about love those who persecute you….its like ok ok so we can never get angry, never get horny and now we have to love the people p[persecuting us great. This leads to my favorite line in the entire NT. Matthew 5:48. Noticing that everyone is rolling their eyes and thinking “dafuq he want from us” Jesus lays down the new law: “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”
          Great Jesus…and also I guess I should have a 16 inch cock, be 17 feet tall and be able to cartwheel through lava. But there ya have it, the 613 commandments are done and replaced with one simple rule…be perfect.
          This is the birth of deontological ethics…an ethics system based entirely on intentions (over the legal ethics of the jews which was based on actions or utilitarian ethics based on consequences).
          There is no difference between the murderer and the person who gets passingly angry to Christ and people want to make a big deal out of the oddball rules in Deuteronomy? Get over yourself douchenoggins. The point is that we are all always-already sinners and that in the infinite compassion and sacrifice of the Christ we can be forgiven. Why the fuck is this so difficult. I swear, watching these fucking bible thumpers try to parse out a religion to fit their own idiotic, close minded paradigm is like watching a woman try to use the remote control. Just look at the fucking instructions dickface.

        9. Very interesting indeed. Deontological ethics….this is new to me and especially challenging because I’m always one to say that intentions are worth dik and that actions are what matters.
          I have a hard time forgiving a child molester who’s “real broke up about it inside” but then again I’m not God. not THE God anyway….

        10. see the neat thing about Christianity using intentions is that they aren’t, as in your example, letting a sinner off the hook because of their feelz….rather they are saying that the little old lady who has never done anything wrong is a rapist and murderer.

        11. A simpler explanation is- Jesus changed the rules. He established a church and gave that church an authority which the Rabbi’s had not been given. He gave His church the authority to forgive sins vice punish. Jews only had the authority to carry out the punishments God had proscribed- not forgive.
          Jesus provided the example in forgiving the adulterous woman– go forth and sin no more.

        12. that would be more simple, but ultimately incorrect. Jesus doesn’t just tell the adulterous woman to go forth and sin no more, but also tell all people not only to never sin but to never have any form of bad thought in their head.

        13. Yes, and He understood that people would sin, hence establishing the Church with the authority to forgive.
          Christ said
          – The greatest commandment is to love God with all one’s being.
          – If we love Him we will keep His commandments, which include loving even our enemies.
          – In his account of the judgment in Matthew He indicates that the things we do for others, we do for Him and are a sign of our love for Him. When we fail to do things for others, we are denying Him. It is an indication of being condemned not for sins of commission, but for sins of omission.
          – He also said we will be forgiven in the same measure we forgive. If we can only punish, and if His church was confined to the Old Testament rules of only being able to punish- there is no opportunity to demonstrate forgiveness.
          As you stated- Christ’s message was about love and what that truly means. A truly new covenant— and a new church being required to fulfill it. Which is why folks trying to tie Old Testament punishments to the Church Christ establishes in the New Testament are going down the wrong path.
          It comforts me to think, lolknee, that you will gain heaven through treating people honorably in your way without malice, and love you show to others.

        14. nicely said. As for me gaining heaven, I’ve always said that I am right with the lord. The kneeman goes with god…..and cums with the ladies.

        15. Oddly, I who adhere to a more traditional Christian morality, may instead descend into the darkness on that final day for my failures in taking care of my fellow man when opportunities have arisen. Even when I have assisted others– have I done it with the love that Paul insists is essential?

        16. there can be no light without the dark….in the end, the system is rigged so that you fail…failure is the very point…who needs a deity who sacrifices himself for your sins if we aren’t going to have moral failures?

        17. Guy in my office has a poster-
          ‘God died for your sins. If you don’t sin, He died for nothing!”

        18. Similarly, He condemned the Pharisees for doing acts of charity as showmanship, to be seen by and gain the respect of the community and the approval of others.

        19. indeed. and not just the Pharisees, but Paul’s letter to the Hebrews is pretty clear in 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

        20. I guess to bring the thread back on topic, I am somewhat torn between my religious beliefs on marriage and the practical issues surrounding it in the modern world. I had a somewhat unrealistically elevated opinion of women given a fantastic mother as the archetype for them. Part of what draws me to sites like this is I have a son– how best to advise him? How to weigh concern for his soul against keeping him from being taken advantage of, abused legally. His best path in weighing the pros/cons and protecting his, his kids, and his wife’s best interests should he choose to marry and have an intact family.

        21. The Biblical death penalty is a civil judgment based on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 2 Samuel 12 is God addressing the civil ruler (David) via the prophet Samuel. It was a supernatural revelation.
          “On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness.” – Deuteronomy 17
          Joab was the only person that could have been a witness against David, but Joab was part of the conspiracy himself so just as guilty, and regardless never came forward against David for murder or adultery.

        22. Even if no witnesses came forward, it was none other than God himself who called out David through Nathan, and expected that he be held to account.
          God forgave David, but it came at a great cost to him. Should God have destroyed David on the spot instead?

  20. “Should You Man Up and Live with a Rattlesnake?” (God, I’m so cynical…)

      1. I don’t think so, personally, but I’m considerate – actually, I threw in that caveat in an attempt to defuse any married men here who might take offense. Because it’s all about feelings. And safe spaces.

    2. Hey I rode around the town’n use a rattlesnake whip, take it easy Bob Smith don’t give me no lip

      1. That was really, really good…Thorogood, in fact…but it don’t mean Diddley…

    1. put some spice in your life (spice is the plural of spouse right?)

  22. There is really no reason for a man in America to get married anymore. Marriage is now a contract that codifies moral hazard into law and steals wealth from individual men to give to women and the state.
    Regarding numbers 1 and 2 on the “Pros” list, a man does not need marriage to do either one of those things. What is important is actually being a patriarch and living in a patriarchy that encourages male authority. Of course, marriage did help men with numbers 1 and 2 in the past, but it is quite clearly a detriment now.
    Number 3 is a load of bullshit. All of the studies showing married men as “happier” and “more fulfilled” manipulate their data. Usually, this is done by counting divorced men as “unmarried.”

    2. Someone else on this site pointed out to me that marriage is not a contract. They described it as an ‘illusory promise’, there is an implication of things to be provided in exchange for financial obligations– but no guarantee.
      It is certainly a legal entanglement- but if one party is in breach there is no penalty/consideration which must be provided for that breach of the arrangement.

      1. That might have been me. An illusory promise is something like, IF you give me $100 today I will give you $150 next week, if I feel like it. That is the bait and switch of marriage today. The woman promises to love and honor you, but only if and when she feels like it. Your obligations are set in concrete and will be enforced. She is promising nothing.

  24. Chico: I need a hair cut.
    Groucho: Which one.
    Chico: All of them.
    Groucho: I’ll need to use my lawnmower to cut through that mess.
    Chico: You touch me with that lawnmower, I’ll sue you for grass-ault.
    Groucho: I’m not the Lawn Ranger. If you want that mess scalped, go find Tonto.
    Chico: Who’s Tonto?
    Groucho: He’s an Injun.
    Chico: Injuns can’t cut hair – all they do is pull trains.
    Groucho: So does your wife – and she can’t cut hair either.


    1. …The other scene where Harpo hits the guy with the mallet, then wakes him up so he can knock him out again makes me laugh every time I see it.

        1. Sometimes instead of listening to music while reading the comments here I go to Old Time Radio and listen to You Bet Your Life episodes. It’s like a playful little wine that goes with anything.

        2. I’ve been known to watch some of those “You Bet Your Life” episodes on YouTube myself…really classic stuff. They wouldn’t be able to get away with that stuff today – thank goodness for recording media.

  25. A few random thoughts while reading the article:
    Adoption. That sweet young thing working her way through college likely needs textbooks. Aspirin bottles under the pillow. Sex with a girl you might not otherwise choose to have sex with were there a choice.
    Fulfillment is important as is contentment. Survival of the fittest is not a great factor in first-world modern life. Perhaps marriage away from marriage law, as we know it at least, is viable. Medical screening has to be worth something. The government should never be involved in marriage on any level. Children are game changers.

  26. Wife has taught me everything I know.
    Wisdom is gained through the experience of wife itself.
    Enlightenment is beyond wife and death.
    Wife is a long, hard road.
    Wife is an unbroken succession of false situations.
    Wife was not meant to be easy.

        1. God… I fuckin’ hope not. Reminds me of a joke. A man’s wife dies. The funeral procession begins. The pallbearers grip the casket and proceed to walk toward the burial site. They walk by a beautiful lake with swans swimming. They walk down a beautiful path with glorious trees and flowers. They start to walk downhill towards the gravesite, and one of the guys loses his grip on the casket. Soon, the others lose their grips and they drop the casket. The casket crashes to the pavement of the walkway, the lid opens, and the wife rolls out and opens her eyes. She’s alive! She lives another 10 years.
          Finally the man’s wife dies again. The funeral procession begins. The pallbearers grip the casket and proceed to walk toward the burial site. They walk by a beautiful lake with swans swimming. They walk down a beautiful path with glorious trees and flowers. They start to walk downhill towards the gravesite, and the husband says, “Easy, boys, easy…”

        2. My own Old Man (in the non-biker parlance) used to say: “death is a long time, but marriage is FOREVER”
          divorced since ’95…

        4. You reminded me of this one:
          A woman awakes during the night, and her husband isn’t in bed with her. She goes downstairs to look for him. She finds him sitting at the kitchen table with a cup of coffee in front of him. He appears to be in deep thought, just staring at the wall. She watches as he wipes a tear from his eye and takes a sip of his coffee. “What’s the matter, dear?” she asks. “Why are you down here at this time of night?”
          The husband looks up from his coffee, “Do you remember 20 years ago when we were dating, and you were only 16?” he asks solemnly.
          “Yes, I do,” she replies.
          “Do you remember when your father caught us in the back seat of my car making love?”
          “Yes, I remember,” says the wife, lowering herself into a chair beside him.
          The husband continues, “Do you remember when he shoved the shotgun in my face and said, ‘Either you marry my daughter, or I’ll send you to jail for 20 years?’”
          “I remember that, too,” she replies softly.
          He wipes another tear from his cheek and says, “I would have gotten out today.”

  27. Good article. There’s no right answer for all of us, but as a 47-year-old man, divorced, with three kids here are some thoughts:
    1) Marry young woman if you are to marry.
    Even if your marriage fails, you got some good years with a young woman.
    Women, on the other hand, increasingly want to sell late marriage to us. That way they get to deploy gina power longer in their life – to be courted for a decade or two – and still stick you paying the bill for old and used up. I don’t blame them for this strategy, but it’s *not* in your interest.
    2) Put her womb to work!
    The goal of marriage is kids. If you don’t want kids, you need to really step back and question your objectives.
    A ‘failed’ marriage that gives you kids is not really a failed marriage. You got something tangible, something awesome, out of it.
    3) Plan for your marriage NOT to work
    That’s right. It can actually can be healthy for your relationship – make divorce less likely – if you go in knowing it might blow up. You will retain more of your balls with this mindset. And it prepares you emotionally in case of frivorce.
    Even in the best of eras, marriage was a very difficult burden for men. But at least the law and culture were on our side. And we usually got a young, beautiful, fertile, somewhat virtuous virgin. Now? Yeah, not so much…

    1. Marry a virgin or don’t get married at all. Our lives are meaningless. Chumps think having kids will give it meaning, but that is silly.

      1. I don’t know George. My kids give me a crap-ton of satisfaction and joy. Weaving fatherhood in with a vital spiritual life can keep you out of that existential ennui you describe.

        1. Me too
          And at my age im looking to grand kids…
          My parents have 8 grandchildren, and 3 great grandkids.
          Old, finacially poor, but wealthy with what matters

        4. Teaching them to respond to parental questioning with:
          “On the advice of counsel, I plead the fifth”
          Brought me joy…

        5. Yea chicks can come and go.
          And kids can ultimately be permenantly taken, but mostly not and its all good…

        6. I have 7 grand children. If I had know how good having grand kids is versus having kids, I would have skipped the having kids and went straight to the grand kids.

      2. If you don’t have kids don’t pretend to be any kind of authority on the matter.
        Also your life has whatever meaning you make for it. The fact that you choose none speaks to your character. Leave the nihilism to the professionals like Lolknee.

        1. i’m very good with children*
          *Children, for purposes of this comment, are considered 18-25

        3. Jak must have kids who turned out to be losers. Is your daughter a mudshark?

        6. Right. So lots of psychiatrists have never been insane so they shouldn’t have any authority talking about the mentally handicapped

        8. “I’m very fond of children…girl children…about eighteen to twenty.” — W.C. Fields

        9. So according to your logic, a woman who’s pregnant has no authority on the matter. The next day she gives birth, and now suddenly has authority on the matter. That’s fucking stupid. Either you are educated about them, know how the brain works, how to rear them so they develop properly, or you’re shit at parenting (which most people are by the way, in spite of having them).

      3. Sounds like somebody who has zero experience talking out of his ass here.

    2. never undertood getting married and not having kids. I know plenty of couples who claim they didnt want kids- so you want a 40 yr old roommate who doesnt have the same interests as you? Sign me up for that!

      1. “so you want a 40 yr old roommate who doesnt have the same interests as you? Sign me up for that!”
        CBCB you really know how to turn a phrase!

        1. My close friend and his wife waited too long to have a kid. She is a foreigner whose English is so-so. I honestly have no idea what they talk about. They are looking at adopting a kid(the two dogs aint cutting it anymore)

        2. Well at least they can’t bicker and fight!!!
          The language of love is universal

      2. Well I will tell you this:
        People always say ‘children test the marriage’. Crap. Try holding it together without that level of distraction.

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      3. Sometimes couples can’t have children because of illness or other complications. It’s much more respectable to say we chose not to have kids.

        1. I tell people my kid died in the Viet Nam war.
          It ended before I was born by the way.

        2. I tell people my kid died in the War of 1812. They always ask what year it was.

        3. I don’t see how it’s more respectable to say “We didn’t want kids,” than “Sadly, we’ve been unable to have children.” If anything, I respect the latter more. In the latter case, the couple can always adopt.

        6. First thing that’ll pop into people’s minds – “We can’t have children” = “My Dick don’t work”.

        8. Oh. Guess my mind is cleaner than the average monk’s; the first thing that comes to my mind is various women’s problems (Polycystic ovaries, numerous miscarriages/ectopic pregnancies and suchlike). Low sperm count is the first thing that comes to my mind that some might consider less respectable to admit than they would to claim they didn’t want children, but these days I don’t think most believe that low sperm count = effeminate metrosexual, at least not where the man’s problem exists in spite of a generally healthy lifestyle.

        10. I meant sterility but thanks for the comment. (not sarcastic) It’s good to see you posting a little bit now.

        12. Thanks brother. Yeah I’m having some personal challenges that are affecting my ability to get on here these days. In the future though I hope to contribute a bit more fully – maybe write some articles of my own.

      4. For a lot of women marriage is finally getting a room mate who pays all the bills.

        1. This is what so many women – even “traditional” Christian women – have been taught since childhood: that their greatest calling as a woman is to get a “great job” so they can contribute to half the mortgage. Of course, even though women today say they want to marry their “equal”, they aren’t, at least while they’re young & attractive enough to have options.

      5. Agreed-kind of pointless. I love my space and have no desire for a damn roommate at age 39.

      6. Yeah that’s bizarre. Why open yourself up to that liability without good reason?

    3. Excellent.
      If you want peace, prepare for war.
      Im divorced with one kid. Have full time, close relationship with mother.
      And 20 year younger gf.
      However gf has been hassling me for kids and i stalled. Now regret because she has moved on…
      I want more kids and will do it…
      I have some tactics in place to ameliorate frivorce…

      1. If you don’t mind my asking, what is the upside of being divorced if you keep a “full time, close relationship” with the ex-wife?

        1. So much better than animosity, PAS, cunty, capricous and malicous behavior.
          And half the time im single

        2. True. But only possible with a reasonable, focused, intelligent woman, which is not even close to guaranteed…

    4. Yep yep, 100% agree. I’d add just a bit under number 3 to set aside some cash money in an envelope or strong box and store it in a place she doesn’t have access to or know about, under lock and key. Every week just toss a 20 into the envelope. Do this for the frigging entire length of your marriage. If you never spend it, great, you can buy a G5, but if you’re forced into a divorce against your will (or even if you want out personally) you’ll have a huge amount of cash “off the radar” to fall back on so that you don’t end up broke and living in a flop house or with your parents when it’s all said and done. Do not EVER…EVER…tell her about this, no matter how perfect she may seem, no matter how much you’ve had to drink, no matter how much she’s sacrificed for you and/or the family. NEVER. And needless to say, to not disclose this during the divorce proceedings or anytime afterward either.

      1. Yeah, good idea.
        Likewise, a stay-at-home-mom is what many men want, but damn! That’s risky. Alimony for a woman who can’t support herself would be back-breaking.
        Our current, sick system greatly incentivizes men to pick CareerGirls with all the crap they bring to the table.

        1. Inflation won’t but the manipulations played in the silver market can.
          However a cache of gold and silver coins buried somewhere will last thousands of years. Unlike buried cash which will rot away in a few years or less once the container begins to leak.

      3. My standard advise to young men contemplating marriage…hide some assets.

        1. My standard advise to men contemplating marriage is to have their heads examined.

        2. Also tell them to get at least an afternoon’s counseling on divorce law from a reputable divorce lawyer (a ‘man-friendly’ one recommended via the grapevine is ideal), and to spend at least three days to a week as a public observer in his local ‘Family’ Court (if they even permit it anymore, considering the increasing lack of men wanting to marry nowadays).
          If THAT wouldn’t turn a man off of marriage, very little else would; they’d have to learn the hard way.
          “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” — Will Rogers

      4. Ah the “fuck off” fund. Every man needs to have this and tell NO ONE.

      5. It’s like being a pirate again, hiding the booty and recovering it when you’re off the radar of the imperials

      6. After the first $1000 or so for emergency use, silver coin would be a better buy, after the first $5000 (nearly 20lb coin) then gold. And don’t store it in the house, you may be banned from the house under the contingency you’re preparing for.

    5. I would add this one as well:
      4) Have a long courtship. Not for more than a year or two, but don’t put a ring on it until you’ve seen how she handles being told “no” and you have arguments and how she reacts.
      5) Test to see if she stops walking.
      Tied to 4, the default shit test from women when they receive a “no” is to walk. This is the most powerful tool in their arsenal since most of them are used to be approached by men and making demands. If she continues slamming the door on you after you’ve called that bluff a few times, keep in mind that she’s not capable of learning anything and is a good candidate for divorcing you. Eventually, she will walk out the door and not come back.
      6) See how she treats her relatives. Does she care about the men and women in her family? Does she get into lots of fights with the women and caught up with drama? Does she disrespect male relatives and in particular, her exes?

    6. Kids.. awesome? Ughh…
      Signing a contract with a 50%+ chance of getting divorce raped? Nope nope nope

      1. I don’t actually recommend marriage. As constructed today, it’s an ungodly joke compared to what it was meant to be.
        For various reasons though, men still undertake this endeavor, so I was offering some thoughts for them based on my foray.
        If you don’t want kids. Great. Marriage would be like needlessly picking a fight with a 20ft croc. All risk, no gain.

        1. I agree, 30 years earlier and I would marry too, but times changed.
          I think the reason why so many guys marry today is that they don’t inform themselves enough, ignore the warning signs and think “well every 2nd marriage ends in divorce but our love is SPECIAL.”
          Add social pressure from friends , her family , your own family…

        2. Glad to have guys like you out there spreading the word to the younger lads who are thinking about legal marriage. We need more honesty from guys “in the field” so to speak.

      2. Aren’t you the homosexual troll that was banned a few weeks ago for being just that a homosexual troll. Hope another mod bans you soon enough. You are nothing but annoying.

    7. I don’t agree with point 3. One thing is having in mind that marriage can fail, another is to plan it to fail. This doesn’t make sense at all.
      Also, It doesn’t matter if you had kids or not, if you divorce your marriage failed.
      My father is married for almost 30 years, my grandfather is married for almost 50 years, and I know many men who are married for about 15/20 years. They have some divergences, but what they all agree is that:
      1) You must be capable to provide, to protect and to lead. You must be knowledgeable on female behavior and be dominant. You must require of your woman to be submissive and skillful on household chores. Never accept your woman to have a job other than being a wife and mother. Isntead, let her have a hobby that makes money. This is very different. The point is, you must make clear which roles each of you will play. This may seem basic, but most men nowadays aren’t really aware of the implications of these requirements. In the past even beta males were able to do that.
      2) You have to understand the nature of love. First of all, you have to believe it exists! I know it may seem obvious, but the thruth is that most men nowdays are either utopical romanticists or skepticals of love. Most red pilled men doesn’t really believe a woman can trully love, the behavior of the modern woman made them skeptical of a woman’s capacity to be loyal and loving, and that’s the main source of their fears of marriage. Women can love for real. Unless you’re able to believe it, don’t marry. Once you believe women can love, you have to understand what is love. Love is not what most people think. Love isn’t a feeling. Love is a choice. The choice of puting someone else’s happiness before yours. When the problems come, you must chose to keep loving your wife, even if it leads you to unhappyness. You must also be able to believe your wife can makie this choice. Think about it, can you really do that? Once you’re married, there’s no turning back.
      3) Then it leads us to the 3 point. You must always keep your word. This is something I don’t see american men saying. A man must always keep his word, specially when they make vows such as the vows of marriage. This means you should prefer die than breaking a vow. Your wife must knows she can always trust what you say. If you say you gonna do something, do it. If you won’t do it, don’t say you will. You should never give a reason for your wife to say things like “you said you would fix the rooftop, but you never did it”. Your wife must knows she can always trust your word. Never lie to her. Maybe you will have to keep secrets from her, but secrets of others. You must not have a secret about yourself that you wife doesn’t know. I have readed some comments here on ROK of people saying you should not trust in women. This is bullshit. You can’t expect your woman to trust you if you don’t trust her. She is a person that must know you more than your mother. And if you happen to keep a secre from someone else, just say “I have a secret from X person that I can’t tell you for Y reasons”. Women make a big deal of anything. If she discovers you are keeping secrets, even if it isn’t related to you or her, she will get mad. Secrets and lies can destroy marriages. Marriage is built on trust and loyalyt. To be able to do that, you have to fully understand point 2. If you aren’t able to do that, you aren’t ready for marriage.
      A king must be prepared for war, but must never seek it. As a husband, you’re the king of your house. If you can’t make your kingdom prosper, no one will. Therefore, you should plan your marriage to be a sucess. And it begins by chosing a woman.
      When you look for a woman, you must think if she is able to be at your side for the goals YOU have in mind. You must set the goals, and woman must follow. A good wife is the one who not only is able to follow her husband’s goals, but she aspires it, she desires to see your sucess. Your sucess is her sucess. Always remember that no woman will be able to do that if don’t love her to the point of being able to die for her. That’s the requirement for her submission. Your life. Think about it.

      2. I don’t really disagree with your main points. But you act as though women are potted plants who do what is right (and what we say).
        To the contrary, they are in rank rebellion against their husbands, against God, against our culture. To use your metaphor, They keep blowing up our little kingdoms.
        So, men are getting a little tired of long sermons from people like you about the hundred more things men ‘must do’ to make marriage work.
        Tradcons heap abuse on their own heads because they won’t speak truth to women. They are cowards. It’s easier to lecture men like you have.

        1. I understand you, I know men are tired of being lectured and being blamed for everything. It may not seem like this, but I’m not trying to find someone to blame. My only goal is to fix the problem.
          “But you act as though women are potted plants who do what is right (and what we say)”
          That’s why I said that getting a good marriage begins by chosing the right woman. A woman who want to follow your goals is the only one suitable to marry. These are the women who will literaly do what we say. The thing is, even in a conservative society, women will have some resistence in that regard. The submission of a woman is not easily earned. Submissive women are not plants, they are like flower pots, the recipient. It starts with modeling, which is done by her parents. Parents today are not modeling their daughters to be good wives, so WE have to do this process. Nowadays you will hardly find a modeled woman. That’s why we should lower our standards and set that a good woman is the one who can still be modeled. You can know this from the moment you start dating a girl, you just have to know how to make the modeling.
          “So, men are getting a little tired of long sermons from people like you about the hundred more things men ‘must do’ to make marriage work.”
          It is in the nature of women to follow and be submissive to men. Women do what they’ve received permission to do. The fact is, we are doomed to fix the mistakes of our ancestors, which was the mistake of giving women too much freedom and puting them on a pedestal. Because of their lack of logical thinking, they’ve used their freedom to engaged in degenerate behaviors.
          Do you really expect women to acknowledge this and take responsability for their actions? They won’t. You and I know that women won’t fix themselves. They don’t act that way. The way women acts is through shit tests. They test us because they unconsciously know they can’t solve their own problems, that’s why they have to test us to makes us stronger.
          All that is happening nowadays is a big shit test from women. This is their way to correct the weak mentality of the weak men who gave them the freedom they don’t need and don’t want. What women really want is strong men to lead them.
          That’s why when I write things like my previous comment I’m merely urging men to be not what women deserve, but what they need. I’m merely urging men to be strong.

        2. We agree on a lot.
          But, I would say that it is NOT the nature of women to submit to husbands. To submit sexually to alpha studs? You betcha. To obey husbands over the long term? No way. Never has been and never will be.
          That is why (successful) civilizations have had to coerce that submission through laws and cultural mores.
          So this problem of modern marriage is not solvable at the individual level. Not without supporting laws and cultural restrictions.
          And you say that men have to work hard to ‘earn’ that submission….which of course just makes the wife the boss. Big mistake.
          I don’t know your faith background but the Bible says wives must submit to their husbands in all things. Full stop. There are no conditions. No ‘if she feels like it’. We like to water that down and immediately point out the husbands responsibilities as if we can’t examine the wife’s duties by themselves.
          So yes, by all means, be strong and grow as an individual man. But don’t think for a minute it will solve the problem of unrestricted hypergamy.
          Marriage today is disarmament for men. That has to be corrected or men will continue to cohabitate instead. And cohabitation is a reasonable response because in it men retain some of their rightful power.

        3. Well, I think maybe I have expressed myself poorly. I can’t express myself properly on english yet. When I said you must earn the submission of woman, I was refering to the fact that it will be harder for a woman to submit to a unworthy man, to a man who doesn’t keep his responsabilities in check.
          A woman unconciously want to submitt to a man, but she needs garantee this man is worthy her submission, that’s why she will shit test you. If you disagree, then we have different notions of female nature. In my opinion, It indeed is in the nature of women to be submissive, but that’s not something that flowrishes on its own. It needs incentive, it needs crafting. This situation is similar to a man’s desire to better himself. It is the nature of men to want to be strong and capable, but to actually accomplish these things men needs incentive. This incentive is pussy, most of the times.
          The fact that these natural traits can be subverted into degeneracy, or simply ignored, doesn’t mean they aren’t there.
          To say that it’s not in the nature of women to be submissive is the same to say that it’s not in the nature of men to be dominant. Being submissive logicaly means to obey.
          Things like nowadays hypergamy are a result of the said degeneracy. I agree with you in regard to cultural regulations must exist, but these cultural regulations were born as a product of natural aspects of the sexes with the goal to set a self-correcting enviroment in order to decrease the chances of degeneration. You know, chaos is a natural trait of manking too. That’s why we have to creat systems to protect even our natural traits.
          The Bible says wifes must submit to their husbands in all things, you’re right on that regard. But God also gave a duty to men, to love their wives as Christ loved the church. In other words, a sacrificial love. This is two sides of the same coin.
          The fact that women need to submit to their husbands regardless of the conditions doesn’t mean men are justified if they don’t love their wives properly. Similarly, the fact that a man must love his wife and give his life for her regardless of how she behaves also doesn’t justify a women to behave unproperly.
          If you take just one side of this text you will be talking the text out of context, which is a classical error for misconcepting of a text.

        4. It’s perfectly acceptable to examine one side of a coin by itself, to contemplate it, to deeply ingest its purpose and application.
          Every Christian man I talk to may sheepishly mention Biblical submission of wives but then *immediately* and reflexively proclaim loudly, ‘but only because men must do a, b, and c!…and be worthy! …and provide guarantees!’ And earn it!’
          To me it shows the great fear and yes weakness Christian men have on this central topic. They immediately give women a thousand excuses to rebel.
          Try it for yourself. Talk to a man – or a women for that matter – about wifely submission *and only wifely submission* and let us know how it goes.

        5. “It’s perfectly acceptable to examine one side of a coin by itself”
          I agree. What is not acceptable however is to ignore the other side or deny its message, because its purporse and application is not isolated on itself, it is a message of complementarity, and there can’t be complementarity if there aren’t two sides.
          As long as you don’t forget that this is a message of complementarity, there’s no problem in discussing just one side.
          But will you never bring the other side to the table? Or will you ignore it exists, and that it is as much important?
          Saying that you also have a role to play before God as a husband is not giving exuses for women to rebel, by any means. If women use this as an excuse to rebel, they’re acting wrong. Just because women can act wrong about this doesn’t mean this point is invalid.

      3. I am a 23 yo girl who reads ROK here and there and you are spot on. This is perhaps the most powerful comment I have seen on this page. My parents have been together for 32 years, married for 27 and my father does exactly everything you mention. My mother knows that when he says he will do something, he will do it no matter what obstacle he has to face. In return, she always offers her support even though she doesn’t always agree with his decision. My boyfriend and I also have this dynamic and to know that he will always try makes me respect and in turn love him even more.
        Women need to believe that their husband is a good leader.
        You must go into a marriage optimistically if you want it to last, and you must establish leadership early on in the relationship.
        Men have to learn how to lead, and learn to pick women. There are many great women out there as there are great men.

    8. We expect women to be hypergamous but in my experience, women marry down! They will divorce the guy with the money but the divorce settlement allows her to keep his money while dating some loser.

      1. They go to a loser that has something money cant buy like a guy with tall genes. Money is movable

      3. Most women just want consistent good sex. Once she has the money (beta bux) secured through marriage (divorce) she can now pursue alpha tux without worrying about resources. The only purpose of beta bux is resources.

        1. The way some of these guys are going on this site (focus on education and job and not talking to girls until their career is in full swing) they will be the ones providing the bux.

    9. Solid advice, also a divorcee with one kid, married young. If I knew what I know today I would not get married, but my son was and is the greatest thing to come out of that mess, so completely agree that I got something positive out of it!

  28. I can’t match you tit for tat on scripture. Though it does seem that:
    “”Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” – Romans 3:31″
    supports my argument. And:
    “”. . .So you shall purge the evil from your midst.” – Deuteronomy 17″ is an example of early hebrew misguided.
    Regarding Eden, I might have used the wrong term – I was trying to suggest a communion with God which existed before the fall, not some earthy place.

    1. I’ve done my homework. I make it a point to avoid putting myself out there unless I’ve studied a matter in great detail, most especially issues of Christian morality.
      “Establishing the law by faith” speaks to the moral law. That is the commandments, statutes, and judgments including the death penalty. Wicked people like murderers only care about their own skin, so the only way to motivate them to abstain from wickedness is to put them down. It was God who said the death penalty was to “purge evil from your midst”. How do you think that God is misguided in that? Do you believe God is perfect?
      I propose even to non-Christians that an academic study into God’s law is all that’s needed to prove it is perfect. Take for example wicked murders. There is a finite, quantifiable number of these people. If they are convicted and swiftly executed, they are no longer a problem. That can be expressed mathematically no faith required. Also under God’s law, the “blood avenger” or witnesses dispense the judgment. Have you ever seen one of those court videos where an obviously guilty pervert or cowardly murder is suddenly attacked in court by a loved one of his victim who can’t contain themselves any more? That anger is a frightening thing to behold. That’s the kind of anger that makes the wicked afraid of the righteous which is the way things should be. Instead, our corrupt system emboldens the wicked and burdens the righteous.
      Also, the apostle Paul practiced the death penalty according to God’s law. Running long be happy to point it out, though.
      Fair enough on the Eden. Different topic, anyway.

  29. One advise for those who want to marry a woman: make sure she’s healthy. The health of your future marriage and offspring depends mainly on the health of the WOMAN (and to a lesser degree on the health of the father).
    Most young women today are sick. I don’t care how good they look, they are all nutritionally deficient and some even completely depleted, loaded with toxic metals and hormonally out of balance.
    This is due to a poor quality food supply, improper diet, stress, poor eating habits, use of medical drugs and other reasons.
    When the mother becomes malnourished, which is almost universal today, the body absorb more toxic metals from the air, food and water. This is how nature works. The toxic metals such as lead, cadmium, arsenic, mercury, aluminum, nickel, and certain forms of copper, iron, manganese and others act as substitutes for the vital minerals that are in short supply.
    The paradox is that some of the wealthy people in America and Europe have some of the most ill babies. Those born to farming families are often better because the mothers’ nutrition and lifestyle habits are much better. Often the wealthy people have had more vaccines and medical drugs, and sometimes more alcohol and recreational drugs, all of which contribute to burnout babies.

    1. We now have the newest members of the society. The obese, malnourished individual. I have to disagree with your comment about wealth and ill babies. The most premature “ill” babies are born to the lower socio-economic class due to lack of education, medical care, nutrition, smoking and higher incident of substance abuse.

      1. this is such a huge bag of correct I don’t even know where to start. The class of obese, malnourished individuals is an amazing thing. The fact of the matter is that it is much cheaper to feed a family on mcdonalds than it is to feed them proper food and this (as well as laziness, sloth and a few other shitty things) has lead to this group which is frightful….this is not, generally, an issue amongst people in high socio-economic classes who are better educated on nutrition,, less likely to smoke and can afford to opt out of the frankenfood diet which is being pushed.

      2. Babies from well-off families might be both sick and looking good whereas those from poor family look and feel sick.

        1. Sick babies do not look good. A baby can become ill, critically ill, very rapidly. That is, in a matter of hours.

  30. Just get an iron clad pre-nup and the first 3 cons go away.

    1. Don’t marry quickly and DO NOT have a quick pregnancy to lock you down.

        1. You are either a woman or oblivious to reality. Of course if you are a woman then it is obvious why you are both. Hard to convince a man of facts when his paycheck depends on not accepting those facts.

        2. “Nope, they dont.”
          Dont see a fact there, you stupid nigggggger.

    3. I put “iron clad pre-nups” in the same category as Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster. They may exist, but I haven’t seen one yet.

    4. Even the best of iron-clad prenups will cost you. You can’t just make a prenup that says “I’m paying you absolutely nothing and kicking you out of my house.” Even if she signs it, a judge will toss it as unconscionable.
      Bill Murray, for example, had an “iron-clad prenup” in the sense that it wasn’t tossed by a judge and it still cost him $7 million in cash and property, on top of child support payments.

  31. The median age of first marriage is now 27 for women.
    They’re playing a high-stakes game of Chicken with us. Will we still wife up women with rapidly deteriorating SMV as they approach The Wall?
    Either that median age comes down, or marriage rates plummet further still.

    1. Agreed, it is an individual endeavor I know several women who played too long and either ended up single, or married a beta with a SMV far below what they could have gotten had they played their cards right in their early 20’s.

      1. Yes, the old regime – Marriage 1.0 – forced women to play their hand way earlier than was ‘in their interest’.
        It’d be like forcing a 22-year-old NFL quarterback to marry now instead of playing his strong hand till his early forties. I’m sympathetic as to why women do what they do.
        Still, women are often their own worst enemies and are mostly incapable of seeking their LONG-TERM self interest.
        Given the choice between being a 1) respected family matriarch in their old age or 2) a popular bar slut in their youth and single cat lady in their later years. …well, they’re choosing popularity now.

        1. I was at a restaurant/bar in middle class/extreme wealthy area last week.
          The 50 year olds were dressed and acting like the 20 year olds.
          And they were not too bad!!!
          However, i do know many women that stayed at bat too long and have cats instead of kids.

        2. Problem is, a woman waiting is like the NFL quarterback getting on meth. The carousel lifestyle is very damaging to women and ruins their future prospects. If the women remained single, but held onto a virtuous lifestyle, that would be one thing, but they don’t, outside the rare exception.

        3. Very true.
          I am just not attracted to women who have obviously slept around a lot. Lord knows I wish I could be. I’d be getting laid left and right.
          So for me, at 47, divorced women are a better play. At least there is the hope they were faithful to heir husbands and don’t have an N-count in the 50-100 range.
          But, as for the typical 40 year-old never marrieds? To me, they are a petri dish of other men’s sperm and an accumulation of decades of emotional baggage.
          (And holy sh!t…you wouldn’t believe how many 42, 44, 45 year old women still ‘definitely want kids’. WTF?!)

        4. If things were to go south with me and my wife, I would probably go for divorced as well, (preferably widowed). With a solid prenup (if that is possible), and we would have no kids together.
          Those 42 YO that “definitely want kids” are mental cases. They probably aborted the only offspring they had the chance of having, and know it. They killed their children, and have no recourse.

        6. When I was in my late 30’s, I found several women in that age range who had N counts in the 2 or 3 range. Professional women especially are lazy when it comes to romance: They went out to clubs with friends and cockblocked each other and went straight from work to home and hanging out with their small circle of friends. I even had sex with a 30 year old virgin. It was NOT fun.

        7. How can sex with a virgin NOT be fun? Or at least funny?
          Yeah, sometimes the red pill cynicism of all women being complete sluts is just…well, wrong. It’s the right default assumption of course. But sometimes women just aren’t sluts for whatever reason.
          These days it’s like coming across a vegan lion.

        8. If I were to end up single for whatever reason I’d do the following:
          1. Get a vasectomy.
          2. Talk to some lawyers and restructure my assets so everything belongs to my kids when I croak.
          3. Never marry again, but continue to see other women who do not have minor children for the sake of companionship.
          Even under the most ideal of circumstances, marriage is only useful if a husband and wife are raising children. Outside of that, there’s really no point to it.

        9. I see your point, but since I have a full brood at home, I think it would be necessary for me.

        10. Understood… when I look at that scenario I see myself as not having enough years left in me to give any possible children from such a union a proper upbringing.

        11. Granted, this was 25 years ago when most of us were raised by people who came of age in the 1950’s. The vast majority of people I know were the product of two parent homes and divorce wasn’t common. It happened, but it was comparatively rare to today.
          There was no facebook or online personals to meet women so the vast majority of women met men at work, “daygame” or through friends. Bars were not unheard of but less common because normal women rarely went out to bars or nightclubs after their college years. (This is why “ladies’ night was so popular with bars to try to bring in women.)

        12. I have deflowered two women in my life, one when we were both teenagers and the other my current wife when we got married. Neither time was beer and skittles. It is a long uncomfortable process only worth going through if you are going to be together for a long time (or think you will).
          For all those guys out there sport fucking, why the hell would you want to go through that crap just for a ONS?

    3. My dumbass friend just married a 40 year old woman, and he’s 38. Spoiler alert, it would seem she’s unable to conceive and he really wants kids. Now they have to try all these expensive fertility treatments. Did I mention he’s a dumbass?

      1. Yeah, there’s a reason we like younger, hotter, tighter…
        Will he divorce her and try with a younger woman? That’s harsh, but kids were apparently his goal ….

        1. No idea what he’ll do. He needs to decide soon though and not drag out this pointless situation. This girl brings nothing to the table at all. She’s not that attractive, has tons of debt (used to be a big gambler) and now add infertile to the shit pile

  33. No, marriage is not good for most men due to the corrupt legal system that is against men.

  34. I have objections to each of the 5 points:
    1) Women’s hypergamy isn’t necessarily rational or logical. Case in point: a friend of mine has a daughter who is marrying the first guy who asked her out and paid for dinner. He’s not particularly handsome or successful but was the first to go through her mating ritual that appears to sort for hypergamous behavior (displaying the ability to pay for a meal.)
    Another aspect of feminine hypergamy is height: Height is associated with wealth since wealthy people eat better and tend to be taller but this isn’t necessarily a good trait to pass on to daughters. Daughters who are tall have a harder time finding a mate. There are tons of short doctors out there.
    2) Easy divorce by itself wasn’t a bad thing. Even now, with no-fault divorce, false rape and abuse accusations are common in “liar’s court” for women to try to up their child-support payments and for child custody battles. If someone wants to divorce you, they can find a reason. There are cases of young couples making amicable splits (yes, it happens quite a bit) and no fault divorce is a godsend to them. Imagine having to make up allegations of abusing someone to get rid of them.
    3) Author concedes that this is largely moot but I add this caveat: The courts reward STUPID women for divorcing because smart women know that a man around the house works hard to bring in money and help keep things going (fixes the cars, house, etc.) If you sleep around with women on one night stands in your local region, you face a different kind of divorce rape in that one of them might go crazy on you and make a false accusation or become a stalker.
    4) Author makes a good point here about how there’s a seeming shortage of good women but note that the supply of betas while it satisfies attention whores, it doesn’t help most women paying the rent or raising a child to not be a gang banger.
    I would add this one for thought:
    5) Marriage can be a financial liability in taxes if the couple both earn about the same due to a tax penalty and also financial aid will be denied if one parent has a lot of money. It may be best to put the lower income one on welfare as a single mother and “shack up” with the father.

    1. RE: No Fault Divorce
      The main historical reason why it became a burgeoning trend in the late 60’s and 70’s was partially because courts were treating the at-fault laws like no-fault laws at that point but it was making the entire process expensive, time consuming, and causing further damage to kids. I talked to a lawyer who practiced during the at-fault days and it was common for one party to hire and get “caught” with a hooker just to trigger cause. Or remember when Dad used to go out to buy a pack of cigarettes, but disappear for two years? The reason that happened because it was cause for a divorce back then. The man “abandoned” his family. So it was all a farce by the time the 80’s came around and legislatures put an end to it.
      The problem with no-fault divorce is when at-fault ended the carry-ons like alimony and child custody favoring women also did not end. Those carried on through till today although there has been significant rollback of this in many states in the last five years. Many have banned lifetime alimony and reformulated child support formulas that used to also be defacto alimony.

      1. I remember feminists snarkily playing the Lucy and the Football game by claiming: “Well, we can’t be blamed for sexism in family court since that was implemented by the Patriarchy so that’s YOUR problem! Tee hee!”
        I pointed out to them at the time they were supposed to be against all sexism as they claimed and weren’t just a man hating gimme movement and that usually shut them up, but in addition to that, it turns out that the pro-female divorce laws and customs date back to 1st wave feminism.
        The suffragettes when not swimming on lifeboats away from sinking ships were also busy with their grand ideas of alcohol prohibition which would end crime in the USA and also to get women custody of their children upon divorce. Back in the bad old days, the children stayed with the father because logically, he was going to need to support them so why play this game of punishing a breadwinner for providing for his children by taking away his children AND this income?

  35. I have thought about this and if my young sons ever ask why I never “put a ring on it” regarding their mother, I will use it as a gentle learning opportunity for them so as to try and impress on them NEVER to sign a marriage contract. Of course, this may very well be completely unnecessary as when my boys reach legal adulthood (about 11 and 15 years from now, respectively), marriage in the US may be completely relegated to the history books.

    1. You are probably de facto married if you have been living together and have kids together. She has claim on your stuff.

  36. The crux of the problem legally is that Marriage is a:
    – Non-Binding contract for women
    – Binding contract for men. (child support, alimony)
    This asymmetry offers her complete security and you complete insecurity.
    Marriage therefor renders men SITUATIONALLY BETA. She KNOWS she has you by the balls.
    In contrast, can you imagine a time when men were backed up by the State? When women were accountable as wives – legally and culturally? It’s hard. But at that time, marriage made men SITUATIONALLY ALPHA.

    1. Marriage is a binding contract for both parties. If the wife earns more than the husband, she’ll end up paying him alimony and/or child support. The worksheets you have to submit to the court during a divorce only take into account your incomes, childcare costs, and percentage of custody. There aren’t extra points for being a woman.

      1. It isn’t a contract, it’s a legal entanglement based on an ‘illusory promise’. You can’t hold your spouse to fulfilling the obligations of marriage- if they’re in breach, you don’t receive any consideration as consequence of the breach. Your only options are, put up with it or divorce– and the legal entanglements.

        1. Isn’t divorce the end result of enforcement of the breach of contract?

        2. Well I’m thinking in terms of no-fault divorce which is the most prevalent. Divorce is just a decision to dissolve the contract. With no-fault it’s treated as a mutual decision by both parties. Neither is a seeking a consideration due to the other party’s breach. Under the law though, there are financial obligations on the higher income spouse. Hence the ridiculousness of a lower income spouse cheating, filing for divorce requesting to be released from all obligations of marriage but simultaneously requesting (and the law supporting) them continuing to receive the financial benefits. Even insisting they’re entitled to financial support to maintain the lifestyle they’d been accustomed to in the marriage while shedding the responsibilities of the marriage.
          If the divorce is based on fault, it would be different in that the party seeking divorce due to breach could then insist on receiving some type of consideration. That is, a greater portion of the assets and no alimony/child support to the other party. Or financial consideration even from the lower income spouse.

      2. In a small minority of cases this is true. But so what?
        Back in the real world, hypergamy leads most women to marry richer men…and thus the asymmetry.

        1. It is true in 100% of cases. Equal income + equal custody = no alimony or child support for either party. Back in the real world, if you take advantage of a woman’s youth to get babies and keep house for you, you can’t throw her away when she’s old and expect not to pay damages. Thus the asymmetry.

        2. Well Sugar, with no-fault-divorce, women and men throw each other away for frivolous reasons. I agree it’s no way to run a civilization. But the cultural Marxists who created feminism didn’t push it to help women or men…but to undermine us all.
          It’s sad that you think having babies is being ‘used’. It’s shows another way Feminism has alienated women from themselves – alienated them from the natural – and beautiful – purpose of their own bodies.

        3. Having babies isn’t being used. Keeping a woman only as long as she is giving you those babies is using her.

        4. I wouldn’t personally encourage anyone to use a woman like that.
          Still, the converse happens often enough. Even I, your humble interlocutor, was used by a wife to lustfully inseminate her with my superior DNA before being frivorced.
          In hindsight, the end-effect feels very much like you described: using her for babies and then tossing her. Perhaps my subconscious deviously orchestrated events to get babies and my precious freedom back?

        5. Know of two cases where lesbians got guys to marry them to have a kid, then subsequently divorced them for their lesbian partners. One case- the lesbian couple married; in the other they just lived together so the ex-husband had to pay alimony for a while. In both cases the lesbians make it difficult
          for the dads to have time with the kids.

        6. It just isn’t true, the judge is required (by law) to believe the woman. So she just claims he sexually abuses the children (currently claimed in 50% of US divorce cases) to get 100% custody and child maintenance, and the house.
          Who the fuck ‘keeps house’ these days, and if anyone were to do that, I would want it to be me because it’s a far nicer life than working for a living.

        7. Almost every divorced woman makes it difficult for dad to see the kids. It’s part of the game of eternal vindictiveness that women love to play. Hurt the dad, damage you kids, but win the game.

        8. I’m sorry to hear about your frivorce. As you said before, it’s no way to run a civilization. No one deserves to be tossed aside after being used for their superior DNA.

        9. Back to it is men throwing away dutiful wives to get younger tighter pussy. We all know, and have ironclad statistics to prove it, that it is overwhelmingly women frivorcing for cash and prizes. In the few cases of men divorcing their wives it is usually forced on the men, as they will lose everything. I was one of those. My first bit… wife had had multiple affairs and was rubbing my face in her final affair. She was no longer married, except for the part where she got 100% of my money.

        10. And yet when divorce was much more in favor of the man, what was the divorce rate? 5%? Maybe 10%? And after women got the big stick, and walk away with everything, 50%.

        11. Number 1 reason women file for divorce in longer marriages– he doesn’t make me happy.
          Number 1 reason men file- he couldn’t make her happy. He gives up trying.

        12. I got the kids, swore I wouldn’t pull the same crap. Their mom was able to come over whenever the kids were willing to have her there. She’d come over in the morning after I left for work to see the kids off to school, brought dinner once a week.
          No matter what you think of your ex, that’s the kids’ parent and they want/need the best relationship the kid is willing to have with them.

        13. I am currently married. I went into the marriage (and told her so) with this one thought. Nothing any man does can ever make any woman happy. So, I will do what makes me happy, and that way at least one of us will be happy. If she wants to go along for the ride, great, if not that is her problem.

        14. Give me an idea of what time period you’re talking about here. I’d like to look it up.

        15. That minority is increasing. Women are aping men in all ways, so I suppose this is inevitable. As you might prefer a stay at mom, high earning professional women are seeing the benefit of keeping low earning house husbands – often considerably younger husbands. And they are paying out when it ends. Maybe as more women find themselves on the wrong end of the alimony check, they will find a way to eliminate those divorce laws no longer in their favor? https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSBRE9BN0AW20131224

        16. You appear to be a man, men don’t deny access. That’s a woman’s game.

      4. If the wife earns more than the husband, she’ll end up paying him alimony and/or child support.

        LOL! That was funny. It happens in so few cases that it’s almost a statistical anomaly.

        1. You’re right, of course; women still largely make less money and choose to stay home and raise the children more often so they get $$ after divorce. I just think a lot of folks aren’t aware that child support and alimony are determined solely by numbers on worksheets and not by feelz.

  37. “Despite what you may have heard, married men usually have more sex than single men.”
    Prager U called – they want their talking points back.

    1. Yeah, that little ‘factoid’ is utter bs.
      Whatever reasons you have for getting married, a good sex life should NOT be among them.

      1. Wish I could credit the right person, but on another thread someone said something along the lines of
        ‘Getting married for sex is like taking an airplane flight to London for the peanuts.’

        2. That was me but it is a quote from Garrison Keillor of Prairie home companion NPR fame.

      2. Getting married because you enjoy sex, is like buying a Jumbo jet because you like eating peanuts.

  38. Got to disagree that marriage is “good for men” these days. Maybe many years back but not now. And the more sex thing in marriage is horseshit. Not to mention you’re using the 2 polar opposites here and not mentioning the middle ground. This says that you have to get married or keep trolling the bars for ONS. There are other options in the middle which do not require a legal marriage. Also, the stats on this are skewed because in the first years of marriage, especially with younger people, there is a lot of sex but after a few years and/or kids, it drops like a rock. Ask anyone married for more than 5 years. I’m not selling a life of freedom for a few years of regular sex which I’m already getting without being married.

    1. I agree on your skepticism on ‘more sex in marriage’. First few years, we were like bunnies. Lately? Well, after some health issues for me and wife’s menopause, sex life doesn’t exist. If I weren’t married? I doubt it would have cut off. I wonder if it’s time to find a younger woman for some casual sex.

      2. Sorry to hear of your situation-It’s time my friend! Is it really cheating if you’re not having sex with your primary partner anymore??? I personally do not promise exclusivity to women so it takes cheating off the table. They don’t like it but they don’t leave either. Or they “break up” with you only to come back a short time later.
        Not sure of your age bu I’m 39 and am still able to pull girls in their 20’s. I do way better now than I did as a younger lad.

    2. The sex stops after the breeding. Biffault’s Law, she has everything, so no longer any need to provide sex.

      1. That’s why it drops off after any “milestone” they achieve such as cohabiting, marriage, kids…. No need to play nice or play with your dick anymore. Hence why I keep them all at arms length and never cave to the big wants and demands. Sure they pout but the attraction remains.

  39. “…let’s assume that in the 1950s, 10% of men and women were unmarriageable.”
    You people are idiots if you think the 1950s were really the traditional, patriarchal times many people seem to think they were.
    The cancer of feminism and progressivism started way before the 1950s. As soon as the Industrial Revolution happened and mass media (newspapers, mass-produced books, etc.) became a thing, the ideas of feminism and progressivism began to spreaed. Just look at the whole concept of the “new woman” in the early 20th century
    Sure, the whole “sexual revolution” didn’t become full-blown until the late 1960s, but the seeds had been sown decades earlier. Sex outside of marriage was becoming more and more acceptable in the decades leading up to the 1960s. All of the famous first-wave feminist authoresses (yes, that’s the grammatically correct term for a female author) got published in the late 19th/early 20th century, and were taken seriously. Margaret Mead released her bullshit book “Coming of Age in Samoa” in 1928, and it became very influential among leftists.
    I get why people think the 1950s were patriarchal and traditional (they certainly were compared to modern times), but the cancer of leftism had already spread throughout society. We just didn’t see the full-blown effects of it until a decade later.

    1. Sure they were – but only because most woman lived on farms and didn’t have an Iphone in their hand with 900 symps saying “go girl”… Look at the raw numbers. .97% lived on farms.. now, its 1%. its shifted. TV played into it.It was risky to divorce. ..I wonder if my own mother would have traded up if she had the same access. Now, she chose the nursing home over my dad (its easy to not rehabilitate if someone doesn’t want to).

      1. You’re proving my point.
        Women in the 1800s (and earlier) were more traditional and less slutty because they grew up and lived in an environment that encouraged them to be that way.

    2. It didn’t start until the courts transferred male assets to females in divorce.
      Which was effectively 1970+

      1. So you think if the courts got rid of no-fault divorce, that would solve the whole problem and women would become traditional and marriageable again?

        1. Get rid of automatic child custody to the woman, get rid of alimony completely, and eliminate CS, and yes, I think divorce would stop in its tracks. Women would look at it and see that they would walk away as naked as the day they were born, and would not be able to have the benefits of marriage while not having to actually be married. Women love having their cake and eating it too. They now can have the full financial support of an ex husband, while playing the field a fucking the hunky billionaire handyman.

        2. If there is going to be CS, then providing a detailed accounting with receipts on how the money was actually spent should be required.

        3. I think if courts didn’t give the divorced women the men’s assets, children, and future earnings, women wouldn’t be keen to be single, homeless and broke.

        4. True. But do you really want to be married to a woman that would leave you and take your shit just because some judge says she can?
          I would not want to be married to a woman who would even consider leaving me and using the court system (i.e. other men) to take all my shit and/or throw me in jail.

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