Women—and feminists, in particular—love to make social hay over a class of men dubbed “Nice Guys” (hereafter, referred to as NG’s). When the term is used positively, NG’s are perceived as non-confrontational, cooperative, and sensitive to other’s emotional needs. NG’s, here, are praised for their enlightened masculinity. When used pejoratively, it is used to describe a class of men who fake being nice in order to manipulate others into doing what NG’s want. Here, NG’s are perceived as sexist, manipulative, and full of repressed rage.
Truthfully, nice guys are not so nice.
Dr. Robert Glover observed as such in his seminal work No More Mister Nice Guy. In his practice as a psychotherapist, Glover noticed many of his male clients shared a disturbing number of unhealthy thought patterns. He also noted that women shared similar complaints about their husbands who seemed nice most of the time, but occasionally had meltdowns about their sex lives, threw temper tantrums over seemingly insignificant issues, and randomly displayed a level of outright hostility towards their wives.
After noticing this, Glover began to piece together his theory about what NG’s are and what makes them tick. He noted that all NG’s have a core belief that who they are is not enough to get their wants and needs met—Glover refers to this as “toxic shame.” This toxic shame refers to NG’s belief that they need to prove to others constantly why they deserve love, affection, and sex. They don’t understand that friends and lovers care about one another by definition and that one doesn’t need to constantly prove why you are worthy of love and attention.
In order to fully grasp why NG’s are the way they are, one must consider the state of children existing as children. Children are born completely helpless and 100% reliant on their parents. As such, a child’s greatest fear is abandonment. The omnipotence that fetuses think they have leads to children having an ego-centered mindset that causes them to think what happens to them and around them is caused by them or is their fault. When parenting goes wrong, the child blames themselves. NG’s, in response to this, develop similar patterns of thought and actions that allow them to cope.
Nice Guys have many similar characteristics: shame-based hiding of perceived flaws, the relentless pursuit of other’s approval and distancing themselves from other men and masculinity. They put other’s needs and wants before their own and expect others to reciprocate their generosity. They purposefully sacrifice personal power and autonomy in order they pretend they are a grand victim of society.
These sorts of behaviors lead to what we refer to as “Nice Guys.” Since they couldn’t get their needs met in a timely fashion as a child, they had to develop strategies to get those wants and needs met. As an adult, this leads to seemingly pleasant and thoughtful men who reveal themselves to be duplicitous individuals who believe they must manipulate other people in order to be happy. They refuse to live up their potential so they can maintain their childish view that they are the world’s biggest victims.
Dr. Glover notes that these sorts of thoughts and behaviors are entirely socially created. He notes four major social changes that have forced boys to take on NG behavior: the loss of fathers in families, an educational system dominated by women, the Vietnam War, and second-wave feminism.
He noted that the twin forces of urbanization and single motherhood presented boys with either a father working outside the home or not around at all. He noted that second-wave feminists incessantly proclaimed that men were not relevant to a woman’s life and that all men had to prove they were more than a stereotypical misogynistic pig.
The backlash against the Vietnam War had created a class of males who based their masculinity an non-assertiveness, empathy, and avoiding conflict. Finally, the female-dominated educational system—coupled with single motherhood—created men that only understood women as authority figures. Instead of being people whom men could expect love and kindness, women became tyrants who had to be pleased at all costs.
Over the next seven chapters, Dr. Glover presents several strategies aimed at helping NG’s reclaim personal power and autonomy. He outlines how a NG can prioritize his needs in a psychologically healthy fashion. He has chapters on how a NG can transform their sex lives for the better and how they can achieve more contentment and success in their profession. His suggested activities to change harmful thought patterns are thoughtful and useful if a NG follows through with them.
In the epilogue, he seems to say that a man can be happy if he simply chooses to be happy. Once a man can realize the unhealthy thought patterns that plague their minds—and the attendant unhealthy behaviors—then that man can start to slowly cobble together more healthy thought patterns that will lead to personal happiness and contentment. The freedom that comes from learning how to overcome personal issues might seem fearsome at first, but once a man realizes the happiness that flow from said personal betterment, then he can leave the fear of the unknown behind.
No More Mister Nice Guy is a very good read and he provides many, many tips for men who are depressed, feel they are frauds, or who feel they have no stable sense of self. He doesn’t present any politically correct nonsense about male privilege or sexism—he simply calls American society as he sees it and provides the necessary advice for men to overcome their Nice Guy-ish ways.
Don’t Miss: The 5 Stages Of Nice Guy Grief
Nice guys= men who are
-Are pussy whipped
-Allow women to walk all over them
-No real experience with today’s women
-Allow themselves to be a target of financial extortion
-Most likely raised by single mothers
The “nice guy” IMO is often misconstrued for the pussy whipped sucker. A nice guy knows when to call women out for their shit and or drops their ass when they get outta pocket, a sucker doesn’t.
Nice guy is a political term. It’s not misconstrued at all, but very deliberate.
It’s how women keep a pussy whipped sucker in line. Women lie to him and say he’s being nice. And then lie again and say they want a nice guy. This reinforces his behavior. But the truth is said women will never spread their legs for nice. If he gets mad that they have been lying all along… then they simply chastise him for not being nice.
You’re right.
And then 100 years later, no more society.
More like this.
http://sorryiamnotsorrydotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/x.jpg
You know it is true.
i agree; “nice guy” is just another label put onto men to control them. If you ARE actually a nice guy, (and like those attributes about yourself) don’t fucking change…that’s just doing what women want. If you’re not a nice guy (and are happy putting up boundaries to help keep you protected from shit) don’t fucking change either! for that’s what women want. They want us all really nice one minute and bad boys the next.
I agree with most of this article but I feel it kinda blames the victim a little bit…… men lashing out on their wives might be because the wife is a dickhead and NOT because the guy is ‘nice’
Most nice guys are very soft, often pussy whipped and cater to women even if they are in the wrong! I was a nice guy once until I did my research on women’s sexual behavior towards men!
So true bruh, I was just like that until about last yr when I discovered ROK and Roosh’s blog.
I have found that you can never cater to women even when they are in the right. It sucks that we can’t be rational in our relationships with women, but you can’t be rational with an irrational opponent (and to think of women as anything but opponents is a mistake.)
If you want a sweet an innocent woman…you will not find it in the usa ok. I now have 2 wives and daughter. I did my research and refuse to date used and corrupted women who are not educated! So I traveled to Ethiopia East Africa to find my of age wives.
Are your wives ok with you giving them aids? This comment helped me realize what a monster you really are.
My wives are pure and innocent such as myself. Why would you call me a monster if my desire is for purity? You are now a Cursed Feminist! The voices of Lucifer and demons told me so! Why you may ask? Because you have offended a holy man such as myself that’s why! You should have asked more questions, but you choose the path of suffering and reincarnation! Toodles on your next life! No Jesus juice will save you now!
http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Buy+one+get+one+free+.+Really+love+the+sheeeit_2d5a1b_3880210.jpg
Huh?
Except you forgot the most important bullet….
– never complain about any the above
See the moment some beta steps out of line the feminists label him a “nice guy” ie a guy who really wasn’t nice to begin with.
Bottom line: Women’s intuition know when they are dealing with a weak nice guy and if the women are not pure or innocent like him they will take advantage of him! I was like this…i got pussy-whipped with her, and thought she would never leave me, but in the end she was evil! Lucky for me I did not suicide myself! Becareful nice guys! They still exist…i know!
Yep, blame it on your mom. That’s right.
When the fuck was he blaming his or any other mother?
Hmm re-read his comment sport. Now, apply critical thinking skills and… Oh you know what I’ll give you a hint. Wait, no, you figure it out.
if you have a minimum of critical thinking, you would be able to understand he wasn’t telling about himself. Damn you’re a joke
Damn, Idgaf what he was saying. So meh.
Ugh, yew shur r ugly. Face onlee a muthr cud luv. Most femznzts r, tho.
Lol k
https://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaupload/tmp/8414a6476d1632155edfcd63bfb5c1e24eb486efe3fc239a395d769e/original.jpg?w=128&h=128
I wud bee mad at life 2, if I wur az uglee az yew.
https://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaupload/tmp/8414a6476d1632155edfcd63bfb5c1e24eb486efe3fc239a395d769e/original.jpg?w=128&h=128
I wud bee mad at life 2, if I wur az uglee az yew r.
So. Why teh long face? Lolz
Or, uh, perhaps you are drawing conclusions to feed your line of criticism?
Single parent homes, which are almost, but not quite, exclusively single mother homes, can have a bad impact on children. Even politically correct sociologists and psychiatrists admit this rather openly.
And your point?
Most rational men don’t blame their own mothers, but blame the mothers or father’s who raised the little she-devils who are on the streets at night!
She-devil? All men are saints? Wow, mkay. What kind of world is that where you don’t think men should be held accountable and women are the bad ones? It goes both ways. You make no sense.
Them lips, eeesh!
She-devils = Prostitutes, half naked and half brained girls who don’t know how to cook or to please a good man, pornography women and materialistic women also!
Men are only accountable because the women started it. Men no longer seek women of quality because they don’t carry themselves like a lady…it also started with Eve in the garden and feminism!
It makes perfect sense! But if you also studied the history of what men’s needs are it is far more simpler than the needs of women.
Men’s needs = Beautiful Sex, variation of sex (straight), competitiveness, serving and activities. Women’s needs = Materials, security, affection, emotional, passion, attraction (highly), keeping up with the jones and seduction…
You’re insane. Job security for corrections officers.
You’re a delusional schizophrenic, believing in fairy tails and talking snakes, you use it as an excuse to think you’re above women. You’re only above the bottom of a cock roach.
Well, though since I have been called that Iam a schizophrenic person. I get paid for it! You my friend have no idea who your chatting with! Your tag name says you love Lucifer, but i know him personally! If you do not hear the voices you are irrelevant! For all those who hear them are 10x more wiser than average men: Lincoln, Ghandi, Nicholas Tesla, Socrates…to name a few! If you cannot speak positive about the truth of my words you will be cursed by My written magical words of power! Don’t worry you are Cursed now…give it time… and you will wonder…
I’m not afraid of your voodoo monkey ass make no mistake about that. You do not possess any power, furthering the legitimacy of my statement that you’re insane. What’s an almighty all knowing witch doing on this website, if you really had anything to prove you wouldn’t trouble yourself with blogging on illegitimate comments section. For your information the I Love Lucifer bs is merely satire, a cyber alter ego.
-are asians
Are you into writing summaries for the less literate?
Very good article, raises a lot of realities about the plight of the Nice Guy.
“Dr. Glover notes that these sorts of thoughts and behaviors are entirely socially created. He notes four major social changes that have forced boys to take on NG behavior: the loss of fathers in families, an educational system dominated by women, the Vietnam War, and second-wave feminism.”
These are the reasons why Nice Guys are born here. But the irony is that Nice Guys somewhat have a better success rate in non-Anglo countries. For eg. in
EE, confident nice guy game or confident beta guy game supposedly gets more
chicks than the standard asshole game of the west.
The real reason why nice guys suffer in the west is because the women are not traditional, and are often complete cunts. In non-feminist societies, the chicks actually prefer nice guys (or betas who have provider capability). The creation of the Nice Guy in the west, and the subsequent duping of him by feminazi cunts in the west who’d still fuck alphas first, is why the Nice guy loses out. The Nice guy in the west has very little confidence, as he is constantly belittled for his masculinity by the emasculating feminist social model in the west. Talk about feminazi cunt hypocrisy.
Anyway, it’s always better to be the alpha. You eat the meat first, and leave the leftover bones to the nice guys. They’re so nice they’d even eat your leftovers.
Interesting take. I up voted that. Women find themselves till they are 33 then settle down with the nice guy , and cheat on him or divorce him later.
I warned an ex friend about moving in with a twice divorced, 33 year old, single mom of TWO, but he left his wife & kid & did it anyway. I don’t care what happens to him now after he didn’t heed my warning.
He’s bought his own misfortune. Should be a good time watching that marriage crash though
It says “domestic partnership” on her FB page. I noticed she’s still posting “selfies” on Instagram, FB, etc. I told him we’re at the age where we can date chix half our age. He wrote some dumb shit like, “Oh, I’m looking for a more mature gal at this point.” He also told me he’s bipolar, bisexual, & on meds. What kind of bitch wants someone like that around her kids!
The guy’s a Ladies’ Man and a homewrecker. He deserves whatever comes to him.
“Ladies’ Man” seems like too much of a compliment.
It sounds like he has even more issues than her. I almost wish I was there to see it haha
Lol, we got back in touch 9 years ago on MySpace & he didn’t want to meet up 1 time. Then suddenly he wants to completely relocate from 2 states away. I had to quit talking to him cuz that’s basically saying, “Well, now that I can get my rocks off in your town, you’re good enuf to hang out with.”
What the!? Why? i just don’t get it…
Lol, I didn’t either, that’s why I had to let him go, especially after they tried to hook me up with her single mom sister.
Oh, god no!
Looks like someone didn’t check the HoFacts.
Considering his decision showed signs of borderline mental retardation, I’m not sure he cares, lol.
There are so any generalizations here that it is laughable. People tend to bring their thoughts to realization. If this is your rationale, it is so for you.
The Alpha almost always ends up eating leftovers, too, mate.
This sounds the behaviors in minorities that people call self-loathing.
Nice guys were mislead and are unaware of the the scam they have been sold. It is like when a child believes in Santa Clause, except in Nice Guys case the parents are not in on it and society reinforces they fable but there are never gifts under the tree…
Love that analogy!
There are gifts under the tree all right but none of them have the nice guy’s name on them.
Nice guys pretty much just female ass kissers. Male feminist are an example.
Being nice to the opposite gender is ass kissing? Wow, you just learn something new every single day eh?
You’re so intent on being snarky that you miss the context of his point. He’s not saying that going out and preventing a puppy from running into traffic is “kissing a female ass”. He’s using the NG as defined in the work this article commented on (e.g. – No More Mr. Nice Guy).
His comment is still a grand overreaction to the situation. Treating a human being with kindness and respect is not weak or beta or whatever you want to call it. We are dealing with twitsted minds in these women and men cant abandon ethics and virtue to cater to women.
I understand that the red pill is about adaptation but it should always be remembered that you are behaving this way to appeal to a women that has no sense of self and hates the pieces she thinks she knows.
Most men that are nice to women, are nice to everyone. Women with no self-respect have no interest in being respected by a man. So is a man that believes in respecting other humans weak because he chooses to believe in virtues?
No I got the point quite clear.
Treating a woman with unmitigated respect and kindness without making her earn it constantly will get you nothing but contempt from her. So, no matter how nice your nature, you just cannot be nice to a woman that you are sexually interested in. Do you finally get the point?
Well said that last paragraph. Many of these guys exaggerate on this site lol. Their just as foolish as the women.
Great read, but NG isn’t an accurate term. 2wycked describes “people pleasers”. Some people have more noble motivations for being nice and don’t allow themselves to get walked on. Thoughts anyone?
grout and stone of flourishing society?..maybe? Thoughts anyone?
There is a difference between a masculine, yet socially oriented, man, and one who suffers from Nice Guy Syndrome.
Nice Guy Syndrome is well defined in No More Mr. Nice Guy and its motivation is to help men who suffer from it to move on to be a Real Men (which is not the same thing as a Good Man. See Jack Donovan. Run away from the Good Man Project), who are perfectly capable of being nice, but without slipping into being obsequious.
Nice Guy, as opposed to a guy who can be nice, is a synonym for Simp.
In the feminist colloquial the term for a guy who can be nice, but is not a simp, is Jerk. Take it as a compliment.
I find it hilarious how women always say that they want a “nice guy for once”. In reality, we all know that they don’t. I sometimes almost believe it, but then I remember that its a complete lie. As a “nice guy”, you will suffer until you hit your 30s, and even then, you’ll just be stuck with a girl who’s ridden the cock carousel for a dozen years. Its a shame, but it also feels good to have swallowed the red pill.
I hear ya. It’s never too late to wake up and take what’s yours. I tried the nice guy/do what society wants life for over 3 decades. If I hadn’t manned up and changed, it probably would have been the early death of me.
I dont see the situation changing next 100 year or so. for the next 100 of men in the west will be subservant pussybeggars dominated by female tyrants…
Only men who are very rich or celebrities will have any perceived worth. Rest will be garbage and treated as such. It’s not worth it. Either expat or suicide and no im not suicidal but really, who wants to live in a world like that ?
“I dont see the situation changing next 100 year or so.”
And yet, society is rather unlike the one I remember a mere 50 years ago.
Well ok then lets say it doesnt change nextt 20 years ? Does that make it any better for us ? not really.
I have seen American society change 3 times, so I’ve lived in 4. That doesn’t hold a candle to what Eastern Europe has gone through.
Here’s a picture of Tokyo in 1945:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Tokyo_kush_1945-5.jpg
And here in 1965:
http://tseveragaar.mn/en/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/japan-smog.jpg
You’re right, if you don’t start building now, nothing will change in the next 20 years, but every brick laid and slab poured is an improvement.
your pictorial evidence is appallingly irrelevant to the times.
we’re not talking about a time when all property was annihilated, society was at a resource bottom, women were forced upon death to rely on and pay men or starve, and men were kept down backstabbing each other over aged barren pussy. even back then, the men who lost the war were still praised and rewarded intensely to get them to work. culture was not what it is now, excluding communism’s civil warfare.
now is a very different event, one that civilizations don’t actually survive -without- starting a war. this pattern: pussy given everything while selfishly repaying no one while men are simultaneously excluded from society without even land or ownership, is not one that you have seen before in your lifetime. every brick laid, every slab poured, brings no life, no prosperity, nothing. the serfs own no buildings, the manufacturing all done outside the feudal walls, the women rewarded for intense unending self-serving two-faced lying. no, this isn’t a society you’ve witnessed until now.
tell me, how does it end, if you’ve seen it before?
“tell me, how does it end, if you’ve seen it before?”
I didn’t claim I’ve seen it before. I claimed I’ve seen change 3 times to unique cultures in America and even more dramatic change in Eastern Europe.
I don’t know exactly what’s next, never mind how it ends. History does not repeat itself. It does, however, rhyme; as the 60s and Oughts rhymed with the 20s.
My suggestion would be that if you desire peace, prepare for war.
Being a celebrity doenst save you from divorce rape. Look at what happened to Robin Williams.
Yep all women do that. Got it.
don’t you love the rampant generalizations these idiots make?
It’s lazy, is what it is. Just like blanketing a whole race as “thugs” because of a handful of bad apples. And then they have the nerve to act as if they are perfect. IFL profiling these bastards.
A handful?
Crime statistics are fascinating things. You should read them sometime.
Ok all blacks are thugs. All whites are angels. Does that satisfy your smug shrek self?
You realize women and faggots are not welcome here, right?
Then why are you? Cry about it, he-man woman hater.
Because I am neither.
Right..
Fuck the West.
Seriously. Make your money there and then go play around In Asia. You owe this broken society and its fat inhuman femonsters nothing.
No More Mr. Nice Guy was a really important book on my journey to red pill. I would probably not be as capable a man as I am today without it. The phrase “no one else was put on this earth to fulfill your needs” is what allowed me to stop letting others walk all over me and set boundaries as a man. Highly recommend this book.
Hear, hear. It was the first book I read on my path to red pill-dom and a text I encourage others to read.
Very interesting analysis. I’ve heard of the idea of “toxic shame” before on Therawness blog. Reading through the examples I recognized some of the traits within myself though I don’t consider myself a nice guy. I’ll check out the book. 2wycked always puts out thought-provoking content.
Yeah well fuck this beta-shaming shit, if it is such a drag to find a lack of alpha behaviour in modern society for some circles you can move to fucking Congo. From there you can find an abundance of alpha shit.
The rest of us will continue on supporting society even on our own expense, just to spite you.
“Alphas” are just betas bending on societal pressure. Gymrats and all, weak pussies, the last persons to say “no” to a woman. Just bunch of former betas posing.
I can almost picture the author saying something like:
“Those brothas in da libeeeria who attaqued da eeebola house an free da brothas ar soo alpha, nomesayin’?”
Are you serious? Being nice and behaving is rebellious? Am I reading you correctly? Do you have eyes and ears that see and hear things around you? These united States are filled to the utter brim with soft, pasty, pastel wearing nice guys, almost all of whom are dominated by women in all aspects of their lives, and you consider this somehow, inexplicably, rebellion?
Looks like you learned a lot in Room 101, bro.
I’m not from the United States, and there is a golden rule in investing: “Read the analyst recommendations, and do the opposite.”
I’m not claiming though that niceness and behaving scores more, just saying that it is more rebellious in sense that everyone wants to red pill now and alpha in the sense that you must have spine to continue doing that while everybody opt for something else.
In 10 years, there are no nerds anymore, only alpha-posing red pillers.
Red pill men don’t want to be rebels. Red pill men wan’t to be the best person they can be to enjoy the best things in life, and to avoid being involved with femcunt as much as possible
“In 10 years, there are no nerds anymore, only alpha-posing red pillers.”
1 how ?
2 even if you’re right, is it wrong that nerds disappear ? They have a hard time to fit anyway.
1: They are like Ricky Martins, if you know what I mean.
2: Economy will collapse if they do.
Furthermore, have to go on with this, beta males are what make western countries succesful compared to B-countries. Beta males secure the survival of the species. Talk all the shit you want, but nature need no bouncers.
The last sentence is GOLD! The ultimate rebellion. Shows a lot of strength in these times.
This article completely skipped over the “implied contract” phase of nice guys where the man thinks “If I am nice enough to her, she will give me what I want (sex) out of gratitude”
Be a good man, screw being a nice guy.
And your comment completely skips over the fact that women do the implying where they repeat ad nauseum “When I find a nice guy I will want to have sex with him”
And your comment completely skips over the fact that women do the implying where they repeat ad nauseum “When I find a nice guy I will want to have sex with him”
Great write-up. I think his point about female teachers is especially relevant. Let me add a bit to that: the female dominated educational system not only convinces men to view women as authority figures, but it allows women to grow up believing they’re the ultimate authority figures.
I think this is why we see so much dysfunction in marriages, with women treating husbands like boys, etc. Anyone know how female-dominated schools are in other countries?
I attended an all female-school outside of the United States. It was female dominated, and I love this site! We were encouraged to be graceful, wore uniforms and I often heard the quote “girls must be seen and not heard” growing up, and great importance was based on how we looked, even though the school was one of the top three in the country (you had to score at least 97 percent in an exam to be permitted, unless your parents were filthy rich; incidentally, there was a LOT of emphasis on science and math in the school, also). We did have classes like Food and Nutrition (Home economics), and the girls in my class, though highly educated, did eventually all become married or are in long term relationships and are happy. We can all cook and clean, some are chemical engineers, mechanical engineers, etc. I’m in a LTR also and happy, but I am constantly approached by guys in the US because they find me classy compared to the girls in the US. I don’t have a single tattoo and in college did not stray from my LTR, even though we were miles away at the time. My parents met when they were 14, married at 21 and are still together, also. Of course, I don’t plan to stay in the US; my b/friend and I eventually plan to move; he owns his own business and is pretty wealthy; raising my child here would be a death sentence, especially for a son. It’s sad how badly things are; I was constantly attacked in college for ‘siding with patriarchy’. At least I’m happy! These girls in the US are mean, b!tchy, and don’t smile. Have a great day!
Beautiful story. You are living testimony to men and women. Those young women hate you because your not brainwashed by the feminist gospel.
so basically when men think like women, they are seriously mentally ill.
Yup, always said that.
A man that is ‘in touch with his feelings’ is a man that learned how to manipulate other people emotionally.
Is the argument that this “NG” syndrome is specific to American society?
No, his claim is that it is endemic to American society. It can be endemic to other societies, that have similar environments, as well.
“Truthfully nice guys are not so nice”
This statement is very true. Nice guys can be very socially awkward and have no confidence. They will then often resent men that have success with women, careers and socially. Then they will hate the women that won’t give them the time of the day. Remember Elliot Rodgers was a NG.
I actually believe that some men just have a natural predisposition to niceness. If not ugly ugly, these guys will often date, but only in long term relationships with women equal or lower to them in looks, and won’t sleep around even if they could. They do not get fought over as high status, even with some looks and money to help, but they always seem to land a girl, a girl who is rather a plain jane, or girls along for the free room and board who don’t mind having a pet beta. This ‘pretend to be nice to get girls to like me’ is far rarer than I think it is portrayed, or at least less note worthy. Guys put on all types of personas as part of developing their eventual self during a significant chunk of their prime mating years, it’s only natural that being nice will be tried out by many, and noted to have failed in landing anything but boringly average plain janes.
I think that almost every guy ‘wants’ to be the nice guy. They think of themselves as ‘I am a pretty decent guy’. Aside from the narrative, It is the ‘definition’ of niceness that has changed.
Nice used to mean “You protect your family, you honor your leige, you ar honest and own up to your own mistakes, You fight when you must, you attempt to protect those those to whom you are responsible, you honor the upright, you dedicate your success to your faith, and you give credit where credit is due’.
This standard, the original code of chivalry, was, in fact, nearly the definition of niceness. But that code was changed during the renaissance to meet the ‘new, progressive’ terms of being nice. “You honor ALL women (even the ones that do not deserve it), You fight to impress girls, you protect those thrust upon you, you honor the meek, you dedicate your success to yourself and blame your failures on others, and you give credit to those who ’emotionally supported’ you rather than those that actually assisted in any way.”
And each year, and each day, the world grows progressively more neurotic. The new code of chivalry says “You become a throw rug for women and weaklings.” Thus, today’s code of chivalry is not worthy to wipe your ass.
The few true users would exist in any day and age. But most men? it takes getting their souls crushed to realize that they can be a nice guy and follow the code of chivalry without paying attention to it’s new, utterly corrupted form.
You wanna be a hero? Be Ulysses, not Galahad.
Great observations Brigadon. The “used to mean” definition of nice is a fantastic standard to live up to, actually. Whatever the new nice is, and I think you laid it out rather accurately, it should and must be rejected as the bullshit it is. But in rejecting it, do not go nihilist, as nihilism is just another form of eschewing responsibility for your own life and your choices in life.
Most men judge themselves as men by the “kind of person they are”. We men value kindness, respect, honor, admiration, and other noble virtues. A man feels a sense of accomplishment for doing a good deedabd making someone else’s life better.
Women do not; they dont stand for anything other than selfish, hedonistic pleasure seaking. There is a very uncomfortable moment in man’s life when he realizes that all the things he thought were important mean nothing to women. Not only that but they will be mocked and degraded for trying to help her live her life better and more efficiently.
I doubt that 99% of men are being nice for some manipulative reason. Most think “who would want to spend their time with an asshole that doesnt care about their needs?”, so he tries to be someone that he would respect.
“When used pejoratively,
it is used to describe a class of men who fake being nice in order to
manipulate others into doing what NG’s want. Here, NG’s are perceived as
sexist, manipulative, and full of repressed rage.”
Hmm. Never thought I’d see Return of Kings spouting Feminist narratives like “Nice Guy Syndrome.” The above passage even links to a Jezebel article for crying out loud.
There are two problems with the Nice Guy Syndrome theory:
1. It’s female/feminist hamstering.
2. It’s appealing to nature.
1. Nice guy syndrome is mostly used by women to rationalize their desire for alpha bad boys and contempt for beta nice guys.
Nice guy: “But you said you like nice guys. Why won’t you go out with me?”
Hamster: “Pfft. You have Nice Guy Syndrome. You’re just pretending to be a nice guy to get into my pants. I like real nice guys who don’t expect anything in return.” [hops onto back of alpha’s motorcycle.]
2. Nice Guy Syndrome assumes that because it’s unnatural for guys to be nice to women, that there must be something immoral about nice guys. This is the Appeal to Nature fallacy i.e. that natural = moral and unnatural = immoral.
Yes, the nice guy is trying to fulfill a selfish goal (sex and/or affection), but the same is true for everybody, male and female alike. The difference is that the nice guy is trying to be fair about it e.g. “I’ll give her what she wants, and she’ll give me what I want.” Of course, he doesn’t realize what she truly wants, but that doesn’t make him psychopathic, just clueless.
I agree. While there are some NG’s out there that are truly scary, there are plenty of people of all personality types that are just as dangerous.
What we’re seeing in the West is a gradual shift towards favoring degeneracy, narcissism, and violence above all positive traits. Now that women control the cultural narrative, they’re moving us away from civilization and regressing back to something more primitive and violent. This is why spree killers, terrorists, and neck tattoos are “OMG soo hawt tee-hee-hee!” while the decent and stable but unaware man, who does not break into houses to fund his drug habit, is an object of derision and scorn.
The West is simply becoming the homeland of evil. Evil women, and evil men.
It’s a shame when NOT being an absolute scumbag sets you apart as some sort of pariah.
Pay the working whores straight cash and ignore the rest of the women. do this en masse and all the bullshit will be neatly contained within a generation.
Hookers are fun, albeit fake. STDs are the big problem.
I agree with Corey’s main point.
Personally, my natural default has always been to date as a nice guy. I’ve always had a predilection for the idea that I could let a woman know I am attracted to her, we’d gradually get to know each other, learn to appreciate each other’s character and strengths, and a romance would blossom.
Its through trial and error and lots of disappointments that I’ve realized you pretty much have to be playfully arrogant, show dominance over other males (in whatever way… even being the centre of attention on-stage as a musician can do this), keep rock hard frame, make them jealous, tease them, not value them that much… I’d like to say that gaming is by definition more fun than traditional romance but I’ve just never experienced a successful traditional romance so I can’t compare.
Its a bit of a bummer kuz even while I’m spinning plates I’m still being the nice guy to at least some girl that I find a cut above the rest. Mock me if you want maybe I deserve it I’m just saying that I don’t think being a “nice guy” should be treated with such derision a priori.
I don’t think the chick OWES me sex… in the same way that I don’t think I OWE her resources just because we’re friends. This character of the “evil nice guy” doesn’t register in my experience.
And regardless of whether or not he’s being “creepy”… doesn’t he deserve SOME fucking help… he is after all doing exactly what he’s being told to do to get the one thing in life (after food, water, and shelter) that makes life worth living… love, affection, and community.
The reason you have never experienced a traditional romance is because they do not exist, and never have existed. I am old. I remember dating in the leading edge of the first feminist wave. Traditional romance didn’t work then either.
Yeah I think I’m coming to realize that.
Well said. The nice guy shaming is merely rationalization on the part of the usual suspects for their preference for degeneracy, narcissism, and violence – ie: No, we’re not the bad guys, those nice guys are the real bad guys! Really!
Well said. This article is absolute drivel. You’d think having to link to Jezebel to make your point would force a man to reconsider his position, but the author appears to be just as clueless as the nice guys.
You mean my point that feminists use the term “nice guy” in a pejorative sense, not a positive one?
Except YOU too use the term “nice guy” in a pejorative sense.
That’s the issue that Corey, sharp et al. have with your post.
Did you read past the first paragraph?
How is so many men suffering from similar psychological issues a female “hamstering” issue? How is men rocked with high levels of shame and a lack of a strong sense of self a feminist talking point?
Read the fucking article, Corey Graham. Glover points out feminism has played a great role in the creation of these men. You know, when boys hear messages how women don’t need men, etc., it hurts their self esteem and inhibits their ability to grow into healthy, happy men.
The fact you have 29 likes means at least 29 people came to my article not to read it and consider it, but just to crow about women and nice guys. Christ.
Like you, I’ve actually read the book and found it enlightening to say the least. What it wasn’t was a rehash of feminist narratives.
Unfortunately, many males who would greatly benefit from reading the book and putting some of the strategies into practice won’t read it.
Your last point is very salient. While the book can’t replace a good therapist, it can lift a struggling man out of the muck of low self-esteem and depression and set him on a path towards personal balance and happiness.
You mad, bro? (just kidding)
Your goal of discouraging nice guy behavior is laudable, but what I take issue with is the demonization of it; the implication that nice guys are being unethical and/or psychopathic. This has the opposite effect of actually encouraging supplicating behavior in nice guys.
When they read that they’re not truly being nice, that the reason they’re not getting laid is because they’re secretly jerks, they then try to be “genuinely” nice. And what’s genuine niceness according to Feminists? A: Serving people without expecting anything in return. Hence, the nice guy becomes something worse, a White Knight.
It’s no coincidence that the majority of articles criticizing nice guy behavior as a “syndrome” are written by Feminists; it plays right into their hands. It shames nice guys into being even more slavish for daring to question why their female masters aren’t rewarding them.
For a more detailed explanation of the hamstering aspect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9XDb0nxSO4
I should also note that I see nice guy syndrome hamstering from PUAS and dating coaches as well, not just women. I suspect that’s because they’re not entirely comfortable admitting that they’re techniques help men adopt jerk behavior (probably due to a fear of feminist backlash and/or they themselves haven’t fully swallowed the redpill), hence they claim that what they’re really doing is helping nice guys become “genuinely nice.” Perhaps this is why Dr. Glover touts Nice Guy Syndrome theory.
Youre exactly correct about everything you said. The vilifying kf the nice guy is female hamster 101. They fuck with alphas get abandoned, so they get with nice guys and feel no satisfaction. Their frustration with the nice guy gets misinterpreted as haye and anger and we all know that women dont deal well with these emotions.
Being “nice” is not the same as being weak. Being kind, compassionate, unselfish, and loving are virtuous, favourable characteristics of an emotionally healthy human being. Women are not kind and loving, do why would they want a partner who is?
Society will not function without kindness and love, and this is exactly why women cant control anything important. Do you see women helping old ladies across the street? Letting someone change lanes in front of them? Never. Men cant begin to change their entire ethical belief system to appease women. If you believe in respect, love, and compassion, then live your life that way. Let the women take antidepressants to feel something inside.
Wow, Brock! I couldn’t have said it better myself. Bravo!
Girls ask to be treated preferentailly, and say they want prince charming who will act as if she was a princess or queen –
then ignores the prince and goes and fucks 3 other people instead, quickly settling for a meth-head roidmonkey biker.
Nice guys need to learn to ignore what women say. Benevolence, Politeness and selflessness are very admirable traits, but most women have barely evolved.
Make a subconscious effort to be a leader; to be dominant. Reward them for good behavior, make them reliant on you. That is the only way to get anywhere with them 95% of the time.
In the even that you find a real woman (which is very uncommon in america) then hold onto her and never let her go.
Good points. Never take dating advice or pointers from a woman. They always say they want one type of man but time and time, again, you’ll find the woman ends up with the just the opposite (until she hits the wall).
That is the very problem with many men in today’s society. They’ve taken ‘outdated’ advice or advice from women growing up (many from mothers) and they’ve tried to apply it.
It just doesn’t work that way….as many of us have experienced over the years.
I never trust a man that women say is a “nice guy.” I’m only slightly less suspicious of men that other men say is a “nice guy.”
I measure a man by whether he does what he tells me he is going to do, whether he can be trusted with confidential information, and whether he sees through the bull shit in society that I see through (or at least try to see through).
I don’t give a fuck what American women like. They are unnatural creatures of pathological socialization. I treat them like I do retards and social misfits. When looking for a woman, I look to countries that do not have the time and resources to waste on feminist bull shit.
I understand the need to avoid being the nice guy, particularly the requirement to learn your own style of leadership as part of your journey to becoming a better man and your version of what an “alpha” is. At the same time I think its a measure of a society that’s succumbed to the feminine imperative that being a nice guy is something that’s so commonly seen as something that’s to be derided and laughed at, some kind of pathology to be diagnosed and corrected. Being gentle and kind to women at this time in history is not something to be respected, and I think that’s kind of crazy, but then again no one said the red pill would be easy to swallow.
So real nice guys are weak. Fake nice guys are deceptive. Non-nice guys are jerks. Looks like women have hamstered their way into complaining about every single type of man. That’s their goal anyway as it is what keeps the fantasy of feminist indignation alive. The article is good and it sounds like this guy is fighting the good fight but there are just too many hamsters crawling around here to have any comfort.
Yep…good points. You’ll notice how every time a “feminist” gets what she wants (or complains about) it’s on to something else.
Women, now, are complaining about unfair wages in the work place. It’s other women who are screwing up the pay scale (not men, not corporate America).
I don’t blame ‘Bob’ because I’m a shitty negotiator.
Dumbest article I’ve ever read. He’s talking about insecure shlubs not “Nice” guys. Nice guys may or may not fall into that category.
Look, the distinction of “niceness” is actually pretty simple. There are two schools of thought- opportunism and mutualism. In the former, you take the most advantage of others that you can. It’s only logical to opportunistic people to talk down to those who are lower status, and placate those with higher status/means. An opportunistic man would exploit another’s insecurity for his own benefit. Nice guys fall into the mutualistic camp. They reward good favor with good favor. It’s not surprising this personality doesn’t fare well with women; who are ENTIRELY opportunistic. See: Briffault’s Law. As women have regressed to pre-civilization mating instincts, they expressly seek out opportunistic men, because those men gave them the best chance of survival in the wild. (someone needs to give the female subconscious the memo that it’s 2014 AD, but of course that won’t happen)
That’s it. There’s not something to uncover about nice guys. Twats and alphas have put out the meme that nice guys are somehow fundamentally bad as a self-serving narrative; for women, it justifies why they instead pursue alphas (even though they get pumped and dumped). For alphas, it justifes all their roguish qualities as “honest”.
I truly hope the pursuit of pussy doesn’t lead us away from decency. You can be Nice without being a doormat. Several girls I’ve hooked up with asked me “You’re bad, aren’t you?” with a look of expectation. That’s the only thing that turns them on these days; and they are desperately hoping you’re a bad boy. That’s how women are today. But it would be unfortunate if we regress right along with women, in pursuit of becoming amoral dark triad neanderthal pussy-seekers, all to be a little more “alpha, bro”.
Well said Rob.
Great response I was thinking of something along these lines. In nihilized America where women’s sexual preferences and worth are not checked by morals, religion or anything else they do in fact regress to the lowest common denominator.
Yeah the “alpha” stuff is overrated.
Sure is.
This isn’t in response to the article, which was solid, imo. And Dr. Glover is fighting the good fight. It’s a comment about how women have hamstered their way to this;
–Real nice guys are weak and contemptible.
—“Fake” nice guys are sneaks who are just trying to get what they want through phony niceness.
—Non-nice guys are jerks, by definition.
Therefore, ALL men are to be criticized. This is the ultimate goal of feminism and its fantasy of righteous indignation anyway. Hamster city.
So what’s the anwer? Go to a country where there are so many attractive women that they have nowhere near the leverage to actually start complaining that men treat them well. Think of what is happening; women are complaining about men being good to them. The whole PUA community is based on projecting sociopathy in order to be attractive. Just leave for the love of God, if you can, that is.
Lol if being nice is manipulative technique used by guys to get sex then it is a very poor form of manipulation indeed.
The dearth of male initation rites is what makes those men failed men:
http://no-maam.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/rites-of-passage-boys-to-men.html
I have to second this statement. When I was in my Senior year in High School almost a decade ago now, I was very close with my counselor, he was a mentor of sorts for a few months before I graduated. One day we were having a conversation and he told me about a book that he was reading about the rites of passage in many cultures. He described one tribe: To become men the males would have to hold a mouthful of water and run many miles through extremely mountainous terrain, at the end of their run they would have to spit the water out. Swallowing the water was disqualifying.
At the time I accepted it academically, but I did not internalize it. I wish I had. I would have realized as I do now that the rite of passage represents three fundamentals that a man needs to grow into a stable individual: Physical toughness and stamina, mental toughness including delaying gratification, and the self assurance that comes with accomplishing an extremely difficult goal. If you can run a mountain and push aside the desire to drink the water in your mouth, then you could do just about anything couldn’t you?
My biggest goal now is to develop those three fundamentals, even at 28, I believe developing these three will set me up for life. Maybe I’ll even give what they do a shot.
In regards to the article: Nice Guys are failed men because they have been taught to ignore their fundamental natures as men and only by first recognizing those fundamentals and then building on those fundamentals do nice guy blue pill betas become Red Pill aware Men.
Nice guys exists because guys care too much what women think of them
And worse, women hate nice guys
So what the author of the book is saying is that the lack of fatherhood and female dominant environment in schools is the cause of nice guys? What about guys who are born on being nice?
I think most people want to be nice. Unfortunately women are responsible for forcing most men off the deep end. I was talking to my Chinese friend the other day and he said, most men are born good men, but women change them into bad men.
Since women are actually sexually repelled by beta / nice / qualities.
Proposition 1. Females cannot tolerate naked masculinity.
Corollary 1. Females oblige males to be dishonest to obtain sex.
Corollary 2. The more powerful the female, the more dishonest the male must be.
http://www.heretical.com/sexsci/theorems.html
I believe if more men started to identify ‘wants’ and ‘needs’ then they would be a lot better off in the long run.
A ‘need’ is defined as: oxygen, food, water, etc…
A ‘want’ is defined as: a relationship with a woman, etc…
You need the first one (needs) to survive. The want is just that…a want.
Once a man identifies the difference between the two, I believe a man’s life can be more fulfilling (plus he’ll spend more time with self improvement, hobbies, etc…).
I learned this one awhile back (it took life experience to realize it).
This is the shit my father never taught me, the beta that he is
Wish it were that simple.
It’s worse really when you find that “being bad” is not so much a vehicle to get laid as it is to defend yourself.
It’s not as if you can decide “OK I don’t want to get laid anymore, I’ll be Mr. Nice Guy now”. Funny as that is. No, you’ll do more than “not get laid”. You’ll get used and fucked over.
And at a certain point, it’s not about sex any more. Suddenly life feels like a Mad Max installment.
Men, for the most part, at least intra-ethnically, can work together and treat each other with respect. Maybe. I’ll go out on a limb and say that most boys are born kind and that might extend into their teenage years. Abuse at the hands of females and / or men who are desperate for poosy makes good men into bad.
Only if said men measure their value as a human by how much pussy they can score.
They dont wanna hear that. They think their “Alpha” because of the women they lay with. These guys are playing their hand the same way the elite wants them to play it.
You can be nice without being a doormat. The word “no” works, it really does. If someone stops being your friend because you refuse to be used, they were not your friend to begin with.
‘Nice guy’ is actually a man whore or the equivalent of ‘slut’ for men.
A man who gives up his time and resource without any sex payment from the women in the same way a slut gives up her sex without receiving commitment payment from the man.
‘male prostitute’
Male prostitute
Even if I am aloof and douchy and sometimes act asshole, my girls always keep telling I am nice.
Either they can sense my “caring guy” side either they just can’t admit they crave for “assholes”.
Fetal omnipotence? Really? Psudeo-mystical Freudian babble?
The problem is here:
“They don’t understand that friends and lovers care about one another by
definition and that one doesn’t need to constantly prove why you are
worthy of love and attention.”
Anyone starting from as flawed a premise as this is going to wind up spouting nonsense. Earth to Dr Glover: the only people who will ever love you unconditionally are your Mother and Father. And even that has a limit. Everyone else, you need to add value to their lives. Have you considered that the root of Nice Guy anger might be an outraged sense of entitlement?
Naw.
The root of nice guy anger is the nice guy discovering that women have been lying to his face and using him. In business when you set expectations for a partner and then don’t meet those expectations, you don’t get to call the now pissed off partner “entitled”…
Yet somehow when a vagina is involved…feminists feel entitled.
Yeah – I’ll go along with this. Not just women, but pretty much everyone has been lying to him. For engineering and mathy types, it comes as a shock to discover that in social situations people lie all the time and expect to be lied to.
Except you aren’t going along…
It’s specifically the lies women express that are the source of nice guy anger. Men don’t tell other men that being nice will make you a chick magnet. Women however not only do this, but also exploit favors from the very people they convinced that being nice to women = sex.
How men haven’t realized how bad things are and how bad feminism has been for them is beyond me. But, that said, much of me concludes that it has to be just a matter of time. Nice guys…its not within a man’s interest today to be a “nice guy”.
” . . .its not within a man’s interest today to be a “nice guy”.”
Within the context of No More Mr. Nice Guy, it is never within a man’s interest to be a Nice Guy, as Nice Guy is defined as a man who pathologically acts against his own interests, debasing himself in the belief that this somehow elevates him.
This behaviour does not make him a decent human being worthy of community respect, it makes him a doormat.
There is no virtue in obsequious weakness.
Too bad that this article was published before the next article, on autistic men.
Clearly there do exist many men who are natural nice guys and whose major failing is merely trusting the bad advice of their woman teachers and mothers.
I doubt these pinko clowns would want to see masculinity unrestrained. They are true evil perverts for attempting to subvert the natural inclinations of generations of men-all so we can have a happy commie lifestyle-the people who dreamed up such anti human socialist crap to subvert nature are the biggest losers in the Universe. Scum!
“The backlash against the Vietnam War had created a class of males who based their masculinity an non-assertiveness, empathy, and avoiding conflict.”
The diggers tried to exorcise the pentagon for a few days. Thats not conflict avoidant.
Meanwhile the manopsherists just twitter bomb feminists. Itd be cool to see you nice guys have some real life confrontations with them.
No More Mr Nice Guy was my baby step into the world of Red Pill thinking
Viewed in this way, virtually all PUA suffers from a fundamental flaw: the notion that men somehow have to trick women into having sex… as if women don’t want it already. They may or may not fuck a “magic trick” jerk, but the good ones you want to keep will never stay as you are the clown who entertains them between their legit relationships. A jerk is every bit as much of a turn off as a pushover doormat who can’t assert himself in social situations with other men. If you are the guy who is strong (i.e. makes a woman feel safe and backs down ruthless competitors) AND kind (are not a heartless narcissist) you will never be single long. I’m not 🙂 She will fall for you hard and will beg to stay. it’s simple supply and demand. Food for thought.