MBTI and Keirsey and others are mostly post-Jungians who distorted his psychology into something more “pop” by reducing it to a marketable version made up of four letters that are supposed to show your functions. After that, they made some empirical observations about types’ behaviours and then came up with generalised patterns of each type (e.g. INTJ the aloof, unfriendly mastermind; ESFP the careless butterfly who just wants fun, etc.).
True Jungian psychology, however, combined with more Jungian-minded versions of the MBTI, can provide valuable tools to improve one’s life and also to understand oneself and the other people much better.
Understand that this system explains human cognition, not behavior
While no system is perfect and none will ever be able to fully explain the behaviours of all humans, Jungian typology can accurately describe and categorise ways of acquiring knowledge. While this may have implications for behaviour, it doesn’t imply that Jung set out to explain that; this result is merely a branch of a tree planted for a wholly different purpose.
This is an important first step in understanding Jung: he didn’t set out to conclude psychology but merely to point out observations from his dealings with patients (and other people).
Thus, the purpose of Jungian typology is to show the ways in which humans understand the world around them and how they process information and what they do with it.
Also, understand that ENTP, ISFJ etc. are just abbreviations, not compendia of humans. They only represent a modern, post-Jungian way to shorten descriptions, for example extraverted intuition with auxiliary introverted thinking is known as ENTP.
Additionally, ignore the P-J dimension of the four letters (Perception vs Judgement). This was a thing invented after Jung without Jung approving of it or thinking about it. In MBTI, it refers to orderliness (J) vs being disorderly (P) but that’s bullshit because there are disorderly, procrastinating INTJs and there can be orderly, hardworking, time-efficient ESFPs.
Finally, the extraversion and introversion things can be ignored regarding behaviour. Jung used them to refer to where we direct our mental energy (inwards or outwards; towards our own thoughts and feelings or towards things in the outer world) rather than how much we can socialize.
Some widely-proliferated “shortcuts” to types
How to use this knowledge for self-improvement
Once you understand your main function and your inferior one, you will be able to do two things: tailor studying (reading, learning, reflecting on experience etc.) to suit your style better (thus maximizing output), and dealing with bad habits more easily. The former also applies to your whole life. Once you understand how your brain works and why you take decisions (or what makes you desire certain things or want to have stuff done in a certain way) you will be able to make everything around you more suitable rather than having it tailored to the general population.
For example, if you have introverted thinking, you may want to break a thing into its parts and analyze it (in your own head, by yourself) and then formulate your discovery in a brief, understandable way (or a harsh way, as Simon Cowell does). If you have extraverted feeling you may, however, want to work with a group and try to understand the emotions transmitted by the other persons and to ensure harmony throughout.
They’re all thinking differently but they could all agree they need a life boat
Another very important tool derived from this is changing your life to renounce bad habits. Once you understand why you behave in a certain way when stressed or why you tend to think a certain way when under pressure, you are able to change. The first step in solving a problem is acknowledging it.
As an example, I was able to cut down on alcohol after finding out inferior extraverted sensing is the reason I crave bodily sensations and various substances when stressed. Knowing what affects you when stressed can have a significant and positive impact on your life, even if it is negative thoughts, binges, emotional outbursts, obsessiveness with details, or a sudden need for argumentativeness and logic in everything.
Einstein knew we need to change our thinking in order to change our habits
Of course, the above does not contradict the fact that Jungian psychology is about cognition not behavior; however, the brain reacts by sending signals to the body (and to the mind for other functions) and then physical sensations are also a form of knowing (through touch, smell etc.).
This can help you in your business life and in game as well
Once you understand the cognitive functions better, you are better able to deal with people in both a social (friendly) environment and in a more formal one (a workplace). Understanding the source of the differences in the approaches of several persons to the same task can help reduce disagreement.
This results in gaining valuable time that would otherwise have been wasted on arguing why person A goes to point X by quickly categorizing all the facts in front of them, formulating a conclusion and then executing a plan of action while person B brainstorms interminably and gives interesting yet unconnected ideas before eventually settling on the same conclusion.
As Aristotle said, “many a dispute could have been settled in a single paragraph if the disputants defined their terms.” To give a concrete example, I no longer have disagreements with a few people in my life because I now know that one of them takes decisions only after gathering copious amounts of information (unlike me who formulates a conclusion almost immediately and then attempts to have it executed) while another relies on traditions and concrete information from the past and from experience rather than unproven abstract ideas.
Think of Jungian typology as the red guy; you can invoke him anytime like a genie
In game, this translates to understanding what makes a girl respond to and what she is interested in and why. While most girls will want the same thing (an alpha that is confident and dominant, i.e. a masculine man), they will prefer conversations to go differently or laugh at different things. Their hobbies and passions and interests will also differ; some may prefer a direct man that talks straight and doesn’t bullshit or fantasize (Te) while others may prefer a more artistic man that can show he is different from the others (Fi).
While some may want to talk exclusively about the extremely boring interesting activities of her friends or relatives and their Facebook statuses and their Twitter feeds, others may prefer a more playful exchange of ideas and even things with a slight intellectual twist.
Start from Scratch
The best start would be Jung’s book, Psychological Types, published 1921. A good website for beginners (with information similar to that of Jung) is celebritytypes.com (tip: on that site you can also find interesting quotes from famous people of all types; there are also some Pierce Presents series on that site from a guy who did a video with a brief intro for each type and a helpful infographic that shows how the MBTI developed and changed from Jung.
So, what are you waiting for? Learn Jungian psychology and start influencing life.
Read More: How Myers Briggs Can Elevate Your Game
Great post.
I have found out the hard way that the most effective advice for the man wanting to push pass the limits of his surroundings or DNA is to be searched and found. The world isn’t always going to give you advice to help you do better. Especially the system that wants to keep you dumb down and not truly go beyond limitations and reach beyond the pink matter inside of our brains.
I have found out that sense getting rid of the clutter I once cared deeply about, my mind is a lot more free than it has been in years. Why in the blue fuck did I waste countless hours trying to convince a girlfriend how much I cared about her when she asked as I fell right into a shit test? Why did I care about the reaction I got from certain people in conversation if I said something that wasn’t quite right and didn’t properly fit in to what was being talked about? Why was I so concerned about trying to keep up with the latest phones instead of buying some more books from Amazon or visiting the closes Goodwill store that has hundreds of books people have thrown away for some reason? All of this and more as I have gotten older has made me understand myself a lot more, and made me also see that in order to grow sometimes you have to go on a journey alone that most people just couldn’t go through or understand.
In this journey I realized its always going to be about self and self alone. Groups and connecting with others is always there if you aim your energy in the right direction, but overall if you want to grow seriously the time alone within yourself is needed to truly let the knowledge sink it.
“Once you understand your main function and your inferior one, you will be able to do two things: tailor studying (reading, learning, reflecting on experience etc.) to suit your style better (thus maximizing output), and dealing with bad habits more easily. The former also applies to your whole life. Once you understand how your brain works and why you take decisions (or what makes you desire certain things or want to have stuff done in a certain way) you will be able to make everything around you more suitable rather than having it tailored to the general population.”
So true. Trying to fit in with the rest of the world will have you living out a plan already here before you were even born, or even if you were never going to be born. We are the lucky sperm that made it. But that doesn’t change the fact that a couple seconds off and we would of not been here. The world despite that would still go on and not give a damn if you ever come into it or not. Its just nature. It just is. In this limited time on this pale blue dot we have to make the best of it and write our own books, after finding the knowledge that will be a guide in a path made for only one. Only made for you.
http://associationofchronos.com/2015/01/25/freedom-for-sale/
As the hot-dog vendor said to the Dalai Lama, “Change comes from within.”
Beautiful post…So much in it.. Observe your mind my friend. Observe your mind..
“Great post.”
Thanks!
One thing I find annoying about Myers-briggs in there are many sites which purport to detail how each type works so it can be a pain to gather a complete picture
MB is only a loose approximation of Jung.
Ive written a book on early psychology from other centuries, these systems are found very early. The four elements, the tarot court cards- one needs to look at them with a sceptical eye, whatever era – to sort out the gloss of that particular time.
Do you visit the gym? If you do you will realise what physical exertion can do to your will…gym….proper food…good habits make you alpha by default….i also restrain on masturbation.The free energy i channel to what am fkin doin.Nice post man.
I work in a environment that requires pushing myself (Or, at least I do) so, when I start to REALLY get in that mindset of trying to finish my tasks for the day, I get in this zone that makes me understand why people say “Working out is fun”. I used to think these people were crazy but, once I really started to get my head right and find a great path to follow on, I understood why working out was fun. I really lose myself in pushing past my limits at work. Any BS I deal with just vanishes for that amount of time. I just get in a zone and black out.
As far as holding back from masturbation, man, it does wonders. When I do, I feel a sense of growing animal in me. My focus is sharp and I am able to work magic in my thoughts and focus. Problem is when it comes to women I am too worried and hyped up at the same time to try and get some that in a weird way I lose some confidence when I withheld myself from jerking one out.
But yeah, working out and holding back on masturbation helps A LOT.
It seems like the INTP people are wired for success in today’s economy
You might be surprised.
INTPs have the brains to figure everything out… they just usually don’t really give a shit about money or success…
Look at Einstein for example… quintessential genius… but he cared more about physics than money.
Most INTPs that I know are more curious than they are power hungry.
I know another INTP who was super ambitious. They are power hungry but I daresay, abhor the spotlight. So maybe overly ambitious characterizes them best.
I was wondering if you would weigh in as we had a discussion, albeit a small one, on this topic a few articles back.
You might find this interesting.
http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/11/06/this-is-how-much-money-youll-make-based-on-your-personality/
Now that is fascinating. Guess my wallet correlates perfectly.
lol if it makes you feel better I’m an INFP. And I really do believe that everyone measures success differently.
A close friend of mine is an ENTP and he works 24/7 on his projects. Thing is, his projects aren’t earning him money.
He is trying to start an organized social movement that promotes community self-reliance. He is hung-up on the idea that we simply should not need to buy so much shit from companies (that often only care about the bottom line) when we can make a lot of our own stuff ourselves. He is by far the most off-the-grid person I know.
I can see that. If something peaks my interest, my natural inclination is to dissect it, find it’s core parts, and then re-assemble them to form something new. Or more correctly, something more useful. Whatever that is, ends up being a slight bit chaotic, but if the zeal hits, I don’t rest until whatever it is is resolved. I curbed this habit tremendously as most things get shut out of my perception in the process. It is funny but for an extroverted type, I find as an ENTP, I display a bunch of introverted traits.
BTW, that is a remarkable goal he is taking on. I guess we relate well in the sense that, any goal I undertake, must have a meaning behind it. I also have no problem being off the grid as that is how my existence is now. My social reasonings might be different but the core appreciations are probably the same. Funny.
ENTJs I’d think would get the most because they are extroverts combined with the NTJ. Compared to the INTJs, they would have more social connections and that might have accounted for a higher income compared to their introverted counterpart.
ENTJs would get the most because all their main function does is view everything as a challenge/problem to be solved, then gathers facts about it, then formulates a conclusion and immediately starts acting on the solution and then also backs it up with a plan, using the auxiliary introverted intuition and bam you wake up one week later with your company’s profits increasing 20%. Two years and 20 promotions later, your ENTJ is a CEO or vice-CEO who just works continuously to improve everything.
True. INTJs on the other hand would rather be independent but an ENTJ is an extrovert and good with working with people. Extroverts find it easier to be in the crowds and talking to people.
True, some people don’t care much for the money.
Personally, I care more about freedom than money.
I see money as a way to get freedom.
So if I can get freedom without having to get money, than I’m getting freedom for free.
Ah, you freedom loving Canadians. When are you coming to the land of the free something or other, Kal, errr, Supe errr, Clark? That’s what you’re going by right, Clark?
I’m getting applications together to move to Asia for later this year actually.
There is a small chance I might fly over… Er… walk over… fuck nvm… grab a plane and fly over to the home of the brave to check out Vegas though.
Depending on how things go I’ll be down to split a pint with you. Not really tied to any location these days.
U mean if I head to Vegas?
Why not? If I could head back to NY for one friend from Canada why not a repeat? Finances willing and all that
I don’t know… a lot of introverts, like myself, are extremely good at working with people… on the surface we LOOK like extroverts, and like extroverts, we go out of our way to talk to people… but it’s balanced by a similar need to be by ourselves, and a basic desire to avoid the arbitrary conversational rules imposed by the more socially oriented.
Basically, it’s a swingline… sometimes we NEED to be social, and other times we NEED to be alone. I think the best job is one where you work mostly alone but with the occasional interactions where you can be truly social (Not restrained by subject) something which is often impossible nowadays because extroverts, with their constant socializing, have set up stupid and arbitrary ‘rules’ of discussion (political correctness) which forces introverts to either avoid socializing or scandalize the vast majority of more ‘normal’ people by conversing in a style which is more normal to them.
Nothing is crazier than an introvert that is forced to act even more introverted than natural.
Ok kool man. If I head to the States I’ll give you a shout. If you’re in Toronto at any point in the next few months message me.
What country? It often helps a lot to be here already for the job hunt. Teaching? I can help you a lot if you need.
Seems South Korea has a nice balance of culture and high-wages.
From my research so far SKorea seems to best fit my goals for the next year. I want to save a decent amount of money and have a comfortable enough lifestyle that I can focus on hobbies and take a series of online courses.
Any info or advice you’ve got I’d really appreciate thanks.
It seems you’re being pretty careful about your decision and that’s. ‘ESLcafe(dot com) is loaded with stuff. Korea is decent. There’s so much to say. It depends on what you want. If your focus will be on work then hobbies and courses then I think Korea is a good bet for you. If you’re coming to Korea for wild nights, one night stands and crazy nights then you will be very disappointed. It’s very conservative and don’t let the girls high heels, hair etc fool you. They’re just mimicking K-pop stars and it is false advertising. If you want craziness and fun then China is much better. Think of what I just said. When China seems like the Caribbean in comparison then you know you’re talking about a pretty buttoned down place. Anyway, you seem clear about work-hobbies-courses. I think you’re Canadian, right? So there are all kinds of agencies recruiting and streamlining it all. That’s nice. Steady system and no start-up costs but if you can afford to fly out yourself, stay in cheap hotels, hostel bunks etc then it might work even better. The agents will put you into full-time work. Often 9-6 for about 2000k a month after taxes, free housing. If you are willing to go to extremely dull, minor cities and towns you will probably find 1-8 pm schedules for the same rate. That gives you all morning for your stuff plus evenings. With some online courses this will allow you to double-time it somehow. You can knock out a lesson in the morning and evening too due to the time difference. It’s can be a unique set up that way. I doubt you’ll find that nice 1-8 gig in Seoul. I would avoid the 9-6 full-time, agent provided gig in Seoul. It’s just not that great, frankly. 2k plus another 300-400 from Saturday work doesn’t go that far in Seoul and you’re left without much free time. So the other, more risky, but doable option is to come to Seoul, find a sponsor who offers part-time work while sponsoring your visa. It’s not easy but it’s there. Then you can pick up some other bits of work for a higher hourly rate. All of this requires that you find your own housing (dumpy motel) and payout more at the beginning. The agents don’t like this and haven’t told you about it because they miss their cut. There are after-school programs that only have you work 1-5 or so, sponsor you, and pay 2600-2700, no housing. Then you can knock out a 50 dollar morning lesson for some executive, do some Saturday work and get up around 4k (minus 400 for rent, 100 for subway) Don’t get too excited. By the end of the year it’s nearly a wash for savings though it doesn’t seem like it would be. The longer job hunt, no airfare, no bonus etc. But you will simply be getting much more per hour and that seems to be one of your concerns. The typical 9-6 gig doesn’t pay you that much per hour. Bottom line; If you’re here there are a lot more options. Just having an agent patch you through to the typical full-time gig is not so great anymore. Though in a smaller city it would be pretty chill.
Other option is Japan (I haven’t been in 15 years, don’t want to speculate)
China ( way more fun, way more hellishly annoying, much more strategic language to start learning. Way more conducive to freelancing and paying for your stay while having tons of free time. The pay is quickly catching up to Korea. The nightlife is ten times better. It’s real nightlife, Korea is just a show. Hard to explain. China is where the true expats are. Korea is kind of over the hill there. But a comfy 1-8 gig in a small town in korea might be cool for your needs. )
Keep researching.
Damn… thanks for all the info… Really I appreciate it…
I’ll definitely see what kind of offers I can get in China then… You made a pretty good case for it being a wild ride and comparably work efficient…
Interesting to hear that Korea is so-so culturally. Everyone I’ve spoken to (including men) has said that it is a very friendly and accommodating place with nice people. On the flip-side I’ve heard from more than one source that it isn’t the greatest for PUA types. I’m not obsessed with notch-counts or anything but if China has more excited, down-to-earth, and/or sexable women that definitely sounds about right to me.
I’m from Canada yes.
I’ve heard Japan is a great fun place to live but the salary is less since the market has been more or less saturated. That was what appealed to me Korea initially. I have a financial goal I want to hit by the time I hit 30 (I’m 28) and teaching English overseas seems like the most fulfilling way for me to do it.
I totally agree with you though that learning Mandarin would be the ideal language to become familiar with. What Chinese cities would you suggest?
Btw I’m curious why you have so much background on this. What is your story? I suppose you’ve done something similar in the past? Are you an expat?
Thanks again.
I’ve been in ESL off an on for 20 years. Went home in my early thirties because it was time ‘to grow up’ and quickly realized it was stupid to ‘grow up’ whatever the hell that even means. So I’ve been all over Asia and one stint in South America. I read one guy’s quote on a forum once. “Chinese girls are 20,000 times easier than Korean girls” and readily agreed. Man, if you have any priority placed on real fun with women then avoid Korea. You could date here but the stakes will be extremely high and the girl will not be some fun, casual party girl at all. Otherwise, Seoul is a very decent place, sophisticated with a very decent attitude towards foreigners. I wonder about Japan these days myself. The problem there is that it can lead you to being a hermit. Go out for the afternoon in Tokyo;
(trains all day and maybe a taxi)
-cafe
-lunch and a bit of shopping with the GF
-movie
-dinner
-drinks
-end the night in a love hotel
and you’re looking at a 200-300 dollar day. No kidding.
You should go to Dave’s Esl cafe online and read all the forums. I think you’ll find endless debates on these kinds of topics.
I suggest Shenzhen in China because it borders Hong Kong for one thing. Near Macau too though that isn’t a cheap visit. If you teach on a tourist visa in China (illegal but very common) then you’ll want to be in SHenzhen as you will have to leave China once a month (Hong Kong) and if you have to do that from Shanghai or Beijing it’s obviously quite expensive. Hong Kong is very fun. China is CRAZY and it will drive you insane but the money is coming up there and with the language you can maybe shift out of ESL if it’s not your thing. Just rest assured that Korean and Chinese girls are a totally different thing. A lot of dudes who spent their one year in Korea will come home and try to rave about all the hot Korean sexfest but it is total BS. They are extremely conservative girls and the idea of landing in some random club in Korea, doing PUA stuff and dazzling a girl, taking her out of the club in front of her friends and having a night of fun in a hotel room is not going to happen much at all. It’s actually kind of a laughable scenario for anyone who has been in Korea and is honest about it. Yeah, I’ve had some fun in that way but you’ll find that it is just a handful of damaged girls in Pusan and Seoul that will get down like that. It’s not anywhere near mainstream behavior. There really isn’t hardly any kind of casual pick up culture at all. I know some guys will chime in and say, “No way dude. I fucked my balls off in Korea!” But guys tell stories. I’ve been with Korean girls. It happens but it is not a light, fun thing and it certainly isn’t very easy. You can date a lot. You can have a girlfriend but it won’t be very casual. Just so you know I’m not some kind of cyber-cockblocker I will say that China is quite fun in that way especially for younger dudes like you. I used to run around in CHina with a cool English kid twenty years younger than me nearly. We were real buds actually and he was turning away T & A as if he were Johnny Depp. He had a girlfriend already and could hardly be bothered to go home with unbelievable young tail. It was a given for young men to hook up. I had enough fun myself, early forties, middling to short, some receding hair and I could pick up dates with early twenties babes that were 8’s and one 9. I wasn’t even going out that much or trying that hard. Chinese girls are very fun. Koreans are not. Case closed.China has girls streaming in to the big cities from who knows what shitty place. Korea doesn’t really have that kind of big-city first world/third world mix like that.. If you do go to Korea, land there in the summer, I know you will go, “What in the hell was that dude on ROK talking about? This is heaven!” But just wait. The false advertising of heels and cut-offs will drive you insane. Korean girls are tough nuts to crack and by the time you do, you are talking about a very serious relationship. Not fun. Japan is much more liberal too and with all the young men just checking out as grass-eaters then you could clean up there I think. One group you could focus on in Korea is the substantial amount of young expat girls. They are surrounded by more attractive Koreans and you could really game them hard. Stare at every Korean that walked by until your white girlfriend is just desperate to keep you. I can’t wait for Roosh to try Korea and hear all the shit he will say. Actually it would be an enormous waste of time. Korean girls are quite good girls, beautiful and give off a very clean, innocent vibe. I actually just like being in their presence. That gets more important with age. THey are good, conservative women but if you want a blur of T and A then go to CHina.
I’m an INTP – tested “positive” multiple times.
Some of this is correct. I sometimes go a month without having a shave or 2 months without cutting my hair. I just lose track of things like that and I have to be elbowed by wife to remember. Then I remember all over again why I should care about appearance, because appearance is the leading reason why people respect you.
The simplest way I can put it is that I – or we – completely block out the things that are not on our mind.
If we’re not currently thinking of money, sex, cars or whatever at a given time, then it’s off the radar completely. Tunnel vision is how I’d describe it
They do but they are not necessarily very good with social things due to them being introverts, however, many times it’s their mind that makes up for it. Many of the ones I know are pretty smart and can think outside the box.
I only discovered this test a few weeks ago, turns out Im a INTJ.
I found it quite disturbing when it describes your personality, as it struck me as fairly accurate, not all of it is positive, yet I found it hard to dispute.
I think Jung was really onto something
Watch out for that inferior feeling or sensing function, bro…
As a rare female INTJ, I have no need for self-improvement because I am already perfect 🙂
watching that video I can only think of two things…
“Braces”
and *GLITTER!*
:).. You think…
It is a rare personality type for both genders.
if you were INTJ, You would realize that, realistically, Perfect is unachievable, and a goal to always constantly strive towards rather than a preexisting condition. And that everything you do, on reflection, could be done better.
On that note: consider the Amygdala, the brain’s APU (anxiety processing unit). This is an important part of the brain, as you can rewire your irrational fears (e.g approaching a hottie) through understanding the process of becoming anxious.
Interesting sub-topic: search “Amygdala Hijack”
The amygdala has to do with memory control, emotional processing, and decision-making. It can really mess with your thinking when triggered, as it has the potential to restrict access to frontal lobes (long-term memory), trigger powerful emotional responses, and consequently turn you into a retard. However, it is possible to minimize the effect. Here is my method:
1 – Logically deconstruct the fear, and determine WHAT about a given scenario frightens you. (Approaching a hottie -> social rejection)
2 – Acknowledge the irrational nature of the fear. (Social rejection -> “I decided not to talk to that cutie because I was scared of people thinking bad thoughts about me. If they thought bad things about me, then my life goes on exactly the same. In other words, there are no significant repercussions)
3 – Determine the correct path of action when encountering such scenarios in the future. (I should have talked to the hottie, instead of bitching out.) Visualize yourself making the correct decision. (In this case, visualize calmly approaching the girl, and applying game in a collected manner)
4 – Anticipate such scenarios in the future. When you encounter the scenario, remind yourself of the irrationality of your fear, take a few deep breaths, and execute the correct response which you preemptively determined in step 3. (Next time you see a hottie, think: “I bitched out last time like a faggot. I don’t give a fuck what anyone thinks of me, I’m going to talk to her this time. Not fucking this one up again.” *Deep breath* & *Execute*)
By anticipating the irrational fear before it occurs, you have the ability to bypass the state of fear altogether. Once your amygdala is triggered, it is too late. Your brain has initiated the fight or flight response, reduced memory function, and diminished thinking capacity; by keeping a cool, calm, collected manner while you carry out the proper response, your amygdala will stay nice and chill, just how you like it.
I highly recommend further investigation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdala#Function
Bypassing fear is overcomed FORCING a man to take out fear….here in Africa men force boys to fight…when you act suddenly out of control you gain a sense of power that you never knew existed.
Leary’s 8 Circuit system. Lots of esoteric books on how to understand and game the manipulations of that system. ” Gorilla Ontology.” Good fun too.
As a carry over from another conversation I had here, I am an ENTP. Many of the attributes noted are easily true. What was curious then is the percentage aspect. As a type that was stated to be the least likely to encounter many people are revealing themselves as one type of Rational or another. Very peculiar and radical how true some of the characteristics are to measuring a person but should a measurement be done again? If the population has shifted to mind power from man power, do we have an evolutionary basis to create certain personalities geared to survive? Asked another way, if the next wave of society demanded we needed highly adventurous and physically daring people would more people be born as an MBTI classified Artisan?
Either way, solid article addressing one of many personality assessment methods. Unlike the other sciences, this has a strong application and can help with choosing careers, propensities, and better partners, in work and play.
“solid article” – Thanks!
1.many people are revealing themselves as one type of Rational or another
-this may be either because people on the internet lie about their type (“NTs” are presented by Kiersey and the MBTI and others very favourably) or because there are certain websites where people of a certain type seem to flock to
2. do we have an evolutionary basis to create certain personalities geared to survive?
-there’s no such thing as people with a sensing or with a feeling preference being useless or less evolved; all types are necessary to some degree as without sensors, few concrete things would be implemented and without introverted sensing there wouldnt be followers, only leaders (where would that lead?); without extraverted feeling, there wouldnt be anyone to communicate ideas to people and rally them together for a cause etc.
Tl;dr we need all types
3. if the next wave of society demanded we needed highly adventurous and
physically daring people would more people be born as an MBTI classified
Artisan?
-i dont think it depends on evolution alone; for example (if i am correct and recall this properly) Jung said that people in ancient times (romans, greeks) had no dominant function and had their functions balanced out without excessive preference for one over the others
-as such I think there might have been a shift but this would have taken hundreds of years and would have dependended on us still struggling to survive, which today is irrelevant since everyone has a fair shot at reproducing and living 70/80 years; also, people don’t inherit the function (you can have sensing parents and be an intuitive or have feeling parents and be a thinking type) so I dont think it would matter
To your first point I’d agree normally. I first took the test when I entered college. I came pretty close to three types, ENFP was third, INTP was second, and ENTP was first. This cross I believe came about due to my upbringing. I often had to adopt unnatural traits to appeal to some people and not expose myself to pain. The one of the three that has appeared most often was ENTP and that was after I settled more on who I was and what I was about. I’m not sure what social factors went into the results of any of the other test takers but wouldn’t be surprised if there as a bandwagon affect.
I would hope no one is useless as life has many entertaining spots and most of all, what gets me, is the how and why people come to their decisions. I doubt personalities are inherited as well and am leaning towards the simple concept of like attracts like for bringing “Rationals” together.
One of the biggest draws and I guess this is where leg work comes into play, is the career choices in relation to profile assessment. My profile struck a chord as I naturally love seeing chaos and creating a structure from it. I’ve applied this to a hobby or two of mine, and in effect, have weaponized how I perform. So as, if someone chooses to compete with me in something I’m good at they will experience a good bit of frustration as I lose when I choose to at anything I’m good at. That said, careers have been a sense of frustration as choice careers that I longed for as a child, seem like a search for the poor house has an adult. Journalism, editorial work, career fiction writer, as it were. It goes back to my chaos fascination. The order of it all eludes me so I’ve dabbled in several careers.
I’m guessing most on here are INTJ’s, a very rare type of person that is actually very common in certain circles on the internet. They are anti-authoritarian and allergic to bullshit, they pursue the truth at all costs, even to their own detriment. They used to be quite successful in spite of their introversion due to their inherent talents, however, due to the rise of political correctness and the use of social media as a barrier to just about everything they are not faring all too well these days.
Well, according to the internet I am INTJ. Good observation. I am starting to wonder if the majority of members of the dark enlightenment, red-pill men, are in fact INTJ types.
Brigadon…i simply like your posts…even though am in Africa…i see lots of sense in your posts
Despite my unending disgust and disdain for public assistance programs, affirmative action, and every lying, bigoted word spoken by Doctor King? (I am a huge fan of Malcolm X instead… he was often wrong, but he was wrong for the right reasons… unlike doctor king, who drank sellout with his mother’s milk)
I Have a dream… That one day men will rise and fall of their own strengths and weaknesses, and will be permitted the freedom to fail even if they are a beloved victim class…
BTW- resolutely, relentlessly Fighting Irish. and proud we got over OUR slavery.
BTW- Mombasa and gold coast girls are smokin’ hot. A million times better than the gorillas we americans got saddled with. Your continent was well rid of them.
I see smart people…
Mombasa is the hallmark of prime pussy at minimum cost.Here in Africa men are the stronghold, the male imperative is desired strongly.
Wow, very interesting. I am also an INTJ. According to the chart above, we represent only 1.4% of the general population, yet seem to be well represented here. A close friend who was very red pill before me, and had talked a conservative girl into being in an open polyamorous relationship with him, and also very bright, was also an INTJ.
The real question is how to become successful again given the challenges we face in current society. Should we adapt? Should we simply move to a more traditional and honest culture? I feel lost.
One thing that troubled me for years, is that in the States, introversion is portrayed as “anti-social” or odd or loner type. Then one day I heard it described as how you prefer to “recharge your batteries”. It doesn’t mean you don’t enjoy people or socializing. But if you are tired and want to relax, an extrovert will do so by hanging around others, whereas an introvert will prefer to be alone, read a book, go to the gym, etc. in solitude in order to relax. This made me feel proud to be an introvert from then on.
England is the opposite of USA. I find the English, for most part value keeping to yourself.
become a supreme introvert. Trust in our personal talents to make money and achieve rather than attempting to work with others or a corporate environment. Learn where money making opportunities exist, and work to fill those, even if it never means you will be ‘rich’.
Make handmade furniture or xbox controller mods and sell them on the internet. Create a rant stream with advertizing. work as a professional handyman, mastering as much of various trade skills as possible. Start your own motorcycle detailing business, or master a musical instrument and play in the subways. Keep as far off the grid as possible, while still having enough interaction with mastery of game skills to ensure a constant stream of supplies (or money) and pussy… Otherwise, exist in your own life and only surface occasionally to take potshots at the stupid for fun and profit.
You do realise intellects care less about notches
I have decided to live as cheaply as possible while doing things I enjoy. In my case, that means buying a boat, add a windmill and filter for turning sea water into drinking water, save up a bit of cash and then spending most of my time at sea. Maybe travel around Europe or something.
Yearly upkeep and misc. expenses should add up to less than rent for a small apartment.
I have given up on the west. Unless I somehow manage to make a lot of money all that’s left is to wait for the inevitable economic and social collapse.
Adapt.
I’m being serious; as an INTJ myself, I found that the best thing to do is to practice dissimulation and to behave unnaturally (for lack of a better term) in social scenarios. As such, don’t argue with people when they are wrong, ignore them and carry on the conversation; don’t espouse un-pc ideas; be talkative and seem (if you can then be, otherwise seem) sociable and friendly and tolerant, etc.
Sometimes, it’s acceptable to show someone how wrong they are and throw a red-pill or another un-pc idea into the conversation but only if you dress it nicely; for example, don’t just say “she dumped him because women are hypergamous and they’ll always go for the higher value guy if possible” but say “maybe the other guy was more valuable in terms of wealth/personality/fun etc.”
tl;dr adapt and be as good and savvy socially as possible
I hope that helps!
I am an INTJ as well.
On two separate occasions I tested INTJ. And upon reflection, I pretty much fit the description you supplied.
I have worked with technical stuff in applied statistics, due to my background. But I have also studied the humanities.
I have been intellectually involved with radical politics in the last 10 years or so, so have actually been a red pill guy in this domain for quite some time.
I am terrible with social media however. Dont like them at all. Dont have a Facebook or Twitter account. And prefer not to work with women professionally.
Being un-PC and outspoken has cost me alot in recent years, and has to some degree probably harmed my access to some social circles in the process. Until I actually started to become much more strategic about these issues.
In the outside World you really need to lay low if you are very un-PC. Or else it might cost you both in your professional and private dealings with other people.
Yeah don’t give opinions if you can avoid it.
Jannik – also you realize how sensitive most people are. It’s very easy to offend people, that’s why your normal extraverted person is socially friendly to everyone. They placate eachother. It feels very fake to me so it’s hard for me to be social when it’s just a veneer of group-think.
Ive been gifted by men, like you – thru trust, many observations on the state of things- which at the time, I’d not come to know thru my own blindness.
Zen master rather than Tao, beyond value.
Another INTJ here. “Allergic to bullshit”, indeed.
I know for sure that I am an INTJ, who is doing everything possible to be more extroverted.
I remember reading that it’s only 2-3% of the population but sites like 4chan and this one are about 50%
Funny thing about being introverted is how you offend people without even knowing it.
If people start small talk with me Id almost always say very little back. I just dont see the need to talk about random shit.
Im in the same boat, Ive realized people are just being friendly and talking is normal for them. I have to really force myself to be social.
Alot of people perceive me as an asshole but the truth is I just dont like to fucking talk alot. Ive blown chances with quality girls simply because I wasn’t showing them enough interest.
That’s why ‘game’ is so effective – the female brain only really perceives social cues….it’s all bullshit.
But yea, unfortunately if you dont learn to run your mouth more you will end up alone 🙁
I’m INTP, which is pretty close to INTJ.
I’m an ENTJ, which has landed me in some hot water before. The essential parts of the article are good. When I meet people I try to figure out their personality, if only to get them to leave me alone. Lol, but on a serious note, the point is understanding people insomuch as making one’s life more interesting.
Interesting. I am innately INTP but after my military and legal experience I score as INTJ.
Likewise, but for men it was simply getting older that caused the change. We absorb stuff in our youth (P), and have an urge to teach what we have learned when we get older (J).
Maybe. I don’t know how scores drift over time like, say, political views. I do know that soldiers and lawyers have to hone their judging aspects to do their jobs. I might also add that my Thinking score was lowered after 3 years at a left coast law school.
I subscribe to this, men who seek to know all truths, at all costs, as i have.
ENTP. Pretty clear since they have a love for arguing
Hah! You too eh?
Of COURSE! Although I’ve been too deflated recently. Just too much bullshit to put up with
While Myers-Briggs may have bastardized the Jungian method of psychology…I still find the identifiable personality types informative and palatable for the layperson. Which may also be its weakness.
Nevertheless, the post cites the INTJ as the aloof unfriendly mastermind. I’ve taken the Myers Briggs test in 5 different forms and overall– it’s 90-95% INTJ. Admittedly, I’ve become more sociable but the INTJ personality type does describe me accurately. Both in how I view myself and how others have described my personality.
For what its worth, the realization of my personality has enabled me to identify how and why I view the world as it is and how/why my personality is either in accord or at odds with others. Before, I would have just written those people off as crazy or stupid. At the very least, I’ve moved past that mindset.
Good article and I appreciate this discussion. It gets those synapses firing where pop culture doesn’t care to touch. Thanks Titus.
I am INTJ and Ive realized Im going to end up alone if I dont learn to be more socially outgoing. Normal people enjoy small talk and social interaction WAY more than I do.
It’s very clear women are not turned on by quiet guys, either.
She will not be entertained by your introvertedness.
I am in awe of how much people run their mouths and seem to never stop talking. I think of them as dumb but at the end of the day they have more friends and dating options than I do.
I think being INTJ is pretty bad unless your intelligence can get you rich
I hope you don’t mind me saying, but to you and all the other INTJs out there—your personality traits are very attractive because they are typically masculine characteristics. The type is rare, but even rarer is a female INTJ. My husband is one and I appreciate his brutal honesty, logical approach/problem solving capabilities, and depth of character. I also love his quiet demeanor and his shyness at first was quite endearing. Maybe I’m the odd ball, but I love quiet/shy guys—if they’re smart and have good character! Usually INTJs leave a woman intrigued as if they are a puzzle to be decoded as they don’t open up easily or often. Quite a tough nut to crack, but that’s ok as it’s quite masculine…and after 18 years of being married, I’m still interested.
By-the-way, I’m an INFJ, so we are both quiet and seem to “get” each other. He helps me make more “sense” and I help him become a bit “warmer” in relationships with others, balancing each other out.
The biggest challenge I see would be in an INTJs initial approach. So once you become more at ease with approaching, there isn’t much else you need to do to be quite attractive to the right girl out there!
I know exactly how you feel. In my head I’m laughing at how fake the whole act is when I interact with the over the top guy who is working in sales in the break room. (I work in a technical field but we still have marketing people here too).
“Oh for sure man!!!! That sounds Awesome!!!!”
Seeing through all the BS is a great skill to have. Sometimes you just have to play along and find a way to work up the energy to deal with these superficial personalities. Living in complete isolation is definitely no fun.
“Good article and I appreciate this discussion”
Thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed reading it 🙂
Interesting article. I seem to be an ISTP but leaning more & more towards INTJ in recent months.
I can say being INTJ is a depressing existence. Introversion gets you nowhere in life. Unless your extra brain power results in making big $$$ youre better off being one of the other more talkative types.
I don’t see the value in small talk, most conversations etc. It just doesn’t do anything for me.
Obviously, this is the polar opposite of what is required to have game and entertain girls. Energetic guys who run their mouths get laid. Girls dont like quiet guys, even if they themselves are shy. The female brain just responds more to socially outgoing guys.
Being naturally outgoing and enjoying social interaction is the best way to live.
If youre INTJ you better do something major in business or science otherwise your quietness and introversion is pretty pointless. I force myself to be more talkative and care what other people say but it’s very difficult for me.
It blows my mind how many people just never stop talking, it’s constant chatter. Ive learned to develop a social circle I need to talk more otherwise they think Im weird for not talking as much
I disagree. I have been on both sides of this issue too. I know that might sound impossible but I really have, due to frequent relocations throughout life. I’ve lived in isolation and I’ve lived in a state of nearly constant social engagement. I’ve been an outright yakker and a guy who keeps his mouth shut. If your emotional paradigms are all kinds of intertwined with approval and acceptance then you will get more rewards through interaction. If you move away from approval-based emotions then you will get more reward through deep involvement with challenging hobbies/projects. A very deep state of concentration on a difficult creative project is far closer to real life (imo) than just wagging my tail when I found a way to please people through this or that talking point that they were wanting to hear. If constant smiles of approval are what you are setup for then you are getting into some very tricky footing. You will be building up co-dependence. You will be likely overestimating the social gestures of others and you will likely start developing some very contrived behavioral patterns, meaning you will be acting in accordance with other peoples’ terms and possibly getting quite far removed from your true interests/nature. You will be putting yourself in other peoples’ hands, giving them more power over you.
I think as you get older you will see that a lot of the glories of social interaction either never were what they seemed to be or simply change as people get more and more invested with their own lives. People will (and always have) judge you based on their own self-image needs. Sometimes it works in your favor, sometimes it doesn’t. If you never get out of the normal paradigms, you will never get a glimpse of how superficial most of this whole game is. Once you step out of line (choose an obscure career, go minimalist, forego marriage) then get ready to find out who is a real, true friend and who isn’t. Once your life-course doesn’t flatter, bolster, agree with or at least gibe with their own, most people will downgrade your validity to…surprise!…enhance their own. That’s not as bitter as it sounds, just a fact for you to use in making your own life better.
There is all kinds of projection, confirmation bias, selfishness, political maneuvering, phoniness, etc going on with social interaction with a lot of people. There are reasons that most people, both introverts and extroverts, will often grow towards the maxim; “You can count your real friends on one hand”
If introversion/isolation depresses you then you are in a state of living for others, imo, The saddest part of all is the girl factor. That’s true. They don’t like quiet, unless it’s some quiet 6’6″ dude who looks like a young Tom Selleck. If you’re physically normal and quiet then you are dismissed. Remember that there about 100 healthy, attractive young men for every healthy, attractive 8+ in the USA.
I partially agree…
We are wired to be social animals, our survival wiring knows we are safer in groups than alone. If you are alone alot, your animal instincts want you to seek a group.
Logically, I really dont care what anyone else thinks, but deep down I have a yearning for more social interaction and to not be isolated all the time.
This is my evolutionary programming (wanting safety in a group) conflicting with my logical disregard of most social stuff
So, yes, it is social status and bullshit ‘whats in it for me’ friendships, but nonetheless as an introvert I feel a drive and desire to be around other people.I just have a very hard time communicating in small talk the way most people do.
What makes it hard is females pretty much entirely operate on the social status level. If you aren’t outgoing and socially relavent on their eyes then they wont be attracted to you.
Any idiot who runs his mouth will get laid more, because that’s what the female brain responds to.
I know what you mean. The wiring to be social is strong but your awareness of that can help you. Just the fact that you know that can work in your favor. Downplay those high-strung reactions you seem to get in regards to social interactions. I’ve been there myself. It goes away.
You ought to pursue more organized groups if you can. I know you weren’t here looking for advice but maybe that could be a good bet for you. Then you’re automatically with people that you have meaningful stuff to talk about with and don’t have to keep up with the twitterheads.
I assume you’re in your twenties and you’re having a hard time interacting with fellow twenty-somethings? If that’s the case then I think you need to realize that the problem is not with you. I worked with 10 batshit millenial females (and two gay guys and one femme and ONE cool dude) and right away I was flummoxed trying to interact with them. I just couldn’t seem to get any traction with them at all. Anything I said was not responded to. I’ve developed the ability to interact and chat quite easily and I could not do it with this crowd at all. I was quickly alienated and basically shut out of their inane conversations. I basically never talked. Every once in awhile I cracked a joke and they were almost resentful of my ability to say something funny since they never could. But there was no exchange. I’d say 90% of my social comments just got goose-egged. No response. I then realized that it is because 95% of the time they are NOT interacting anyway. It was just a round-robin of people talking about themselves, their plans, their purchases, their daily irritations. No one was ever interacting on a topic. They just traded off on spoken interior monologues. Everyone once in awhile I made an observation about an event or showed some interest in an actual topic and they would look at me like I was a lamp or something that just said something. Not in surprise but in total disinterest. Nothing was ever interesting to them. Then they would get back to showing off their new phone or alternate in a ‘discussion’ previewing their dull evening routines. I worked with them for a year and observed all of this. They couldn’t crack jokes, make astute observations or ever say anything unique. EVER. Not in an entire year of constant chatter. If you can’t interact with these platinum level narcissists in your generation then you shouldn’t beat yourself up over it.
Im 28 I feel like Im on a very different wavelength than most people. I also suspect millennials are abnormally shitty people compared to other generations. These unusual factors have made it very difficult for me to form normal relationships with anyone.
I dont take pleasure in small talk and random bullshit the way 90% of people seem to.
I definitely have a ‘game’ mode where I realize I have to run my mouth and I can get laid from time to time, but it’s a veneer and girls who hang around me longer realize Im pretty reserved.
I think the unique safety of modern life and ‘liberation’ of women has made dating extremely difficult for quiet guys in the U.S. girls have too many entertainment options, you have to be a loud clown to hold their attention.
I can force myself to be more talkative but it’s not really genuine.
Unless you can make big money I think introversion is almost a curse
You’re already nearly leaving that age of socialization anyway. You’ll soon be very happy that you didn’t dive into too much bs. Yeah, you made a few runs at women but mostly you knew you didn’t like shallow interaction and you were loyal to your self. Don’t worry about it. You did the right thing. I regret every single moment that I put pressure on myself to ‘figure out’ what other people wanted from me. It’s gross and it’s a huge regret. To think that some real cunts and assholes could have sensed that I was worried about their approval is a sickening regret You didn’t do much of it so you should be feeling fine. If you don’t yet feel that way you will in a few years.
Melmoth,
This is a solid post.
Existing at both ends of the spectrum always seemed like a strange phenomenon, but that’s what’s occurred for a majority of my 20s.
Working as a bouncer in the past (I’m 30 now and worked in the bar scene from 24-27) at the gigantic scandal-laden state school smack-dab in the middle of Pennsylvania where YOLO-culture rules the party scene, there’s been times where I was just so mentally removed from the whole scene that I couldn’t have given less of a fuck regarding all the social maneuvering and nonsense. Being in the mix all of the time got viciously tiring. It was basically being in isolation mode mentally while being physically among others in a highly-social and volatile environment.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, I could yak successfully if being around tons of people didn’t faze me that day. Sometimes its very possible (for both of us, it seems) to just get the energy up and charm on for constant social engagements. At those times it comes naturally. God damn it, it’s true; if your energy is there and you can be naturally entertaining, you will get laid, especially in that above-mentioned environment. Good luck finding a stimulating conversation though.
Perhaps depression lies at the core of this huge disparity between social moods. It’s certainly something I’ve struggled with before. Depression and lack of confidence, especially social confidence, seem to go hand-in-hand.
When it comes to phoniness and social maneuvering, believe me brother, I’ve seen enough of it to last me a lifetime. The things people do to stay relevant in the social scene are laughable. The “I know the owner” game, the free drink entitlement and the other random forms of social posturing all reared their heads many a time. However, participating in these behaviors is not putting anyone on a path to really improve their life in any quantifiable way. I swear, if people put as much energy into a craft, skill or real talent as they did into feeling relevant, validated and popular through surface behaviors, then America might have a chance.
When it comes to true friends, you’re absolutely right. They exist on one hand.
People who go their own way, forego social media, or pursue their own interests passionately make people nervous and provide them with a convenient opportunity to pass judgement, as you said. Falling in line is safe, warm and a good baseline for comparing yourself to other people socially, sadly.
What do you mean by ‘If introversion/isolation depresses you then you are in a state of living for others, imo?’ Are you saying that if you’re depressed by not interacting with others consistently, you’re putting too much importance on that very act of interaction?
I’m curious how these ideas specifically apply to your life too. What type of life and living situations were you in that warranted both isolation and social savvy? Were your periods of isolation due to social exhaustion, the need to unplug, or just lack of a social scene in general? The relocations presumably had a lot to do with it. Again, great post–it speaks volumes in its honesty.
Ha. I went to a similar, rural party school. I know where you were without doubt and I know those beer-soaked whirlwinds of absolutely constant chatter, displays of charm/coolness, posturing, whatever. It’s a weird game because when you win it then it kind of dawns on you that it’s just another person that you had pedestalized. Women naturally, is what I’m talking about, but you could say the same for people in general. You wonder why you needed approval once you get it. Then it’s kind of icky in some way, especially reminiscing about it 20 years later. Why in the hell did I need to be approved of anyway? Amazing how much you change. A lot of this has to do with age. If that original poster who brought this up is early twenties then you could hardly expect that he head off into the woods every weekend to ponder shit alone. That is pretty heavily depressing. When you’re in your twenties then you just can’t miss that party so it’s almost like people of disparate age can’t really have this discussion.
I meant that isolation shouldn’t depress someone in that you shouldn’t be wired to need constant injections of approval. A solitary camping trip shouldn’t do your head in at all. Weeks of isolation would probably clobber anyone. I’ve been isolated overseas, I’ve been at party schools, I’ve been the new kid on the block several times. I guess my point isn’t isolation vs. interaction as much as it’s what you’re in it for. People should be a bonus because they’re simply fun and interesting, not because they are holders of the great amulet of approval that you’re pursuing. It’s like a pet dog. You can love a dog so much you would kill for it but if it turned on you then you wouldn’t go into a tailspin of depression and esteem problems. You like the dog but it’s approval of you isn’t some kind of Jenga piece for your emotional mind. That’s laughable. People and their approval/disapproval of you should be the same way. It shouldn’t factor in. Act right and let the chips fall. No one’s opinion of you should matter. If you’re not pursuing approval then 98% of your mistakes will/would have been eliminated anyway, ironically.
I have a friend who’s basically a sociopath, I think. He’s highly moral and never hurts people though. Not at all. We’ve been friends for 25 years. If I called him tomorrow and said that I no longer considered him a friend then he would just hang up without a cross word and I seriously think he wouldn’t give it a thought. That’s an extreme example but he’s actually in the right place.
It’s all balance really. Some good people sometimes mixed with easy stretches of isolation is probably ideal. I think celebrities go insane so often because they never leave their approval/disapproval mental sets because they’ve never needed to.
You just need to isolate girls and get them talking one on one. Us INTPs are no good in groups but would destroy a hamster rationalisation given the chance.
Bingo. In a group I am non existent, but 1on1..
I had that problem as well but being talkative is something you can learn and practice not something that you can’t change. One thing I found (at least for INTJs like me) is to stop thinking when talking in social events and just say whatever comes out; this helped me a lot.
Being bright has held me up bigtime….all the people around are daft but dominant.
In the early days this is definitely true
ISTJ with INTJ leanings. Both MBTI and Jungian Cognitive Functions – I examined both.
It seems that a good number of men in the Manosphere are Introverts. As I recall, introversion is strongly associated with intellect.
One thing I find amusing is the author stating that social environments are “friendly”. If that is so, then why are we men here learning how to “game” the sexual marketplace? AMOGing, persuasion, building attraction – a cold manipulation of a remorseless system by which sexuality is shared out amongst the most “deserving” of men.
Jung was German, one of the more feminised societies in Europe. Is his system of describing thinking really trustable? I find myself wondering as to its validity – in fact was thinking about that over three years ago.
By “friendly” i meant the opposite of formal and yes, when you game a girl you try to create rapport and make her comfortable with you, which is a type of friendship (because it isn’t enmity).
I don’t see Germany as feminised at all and I certainly don’t think it was feminised in 1921 when Psychological Types was published or after that (after that it most surely wasn’t). So I would say Germany isn’t and wasn’t feminised.
Yes, his system is trustable; MBTI and Keirsey aren’t trustable but Jung is as many people report that descriptions of types that arose from post-Jungians are eerily accurate (I can attest to that) and his descriptions of cognitive functions is also valid and trustable but it’s not concrete information; it’s hard to digest and to get the true meaning of and it can get easily misinterpreted.
Which part of mbti do u disagree with? I think the 16 archetypes are quite handy in understanding people.
There is clearly a difference between an intp and a intj for instance.
I disagree with the things about behaviour and with the shift from focusing on the cognitive function (the dominant one especially) towards talking about the type itself more broadly which I believe loses the essence and presents the dialectical relationship between the functions in a simplified manner.
As an example, I disagree that an INTJ is most of the time an anti-social (un-sociable) mastermind, as I managed to become a sociable, talkative and occasionally seemingly extraverted INTJ.
Also, the thing I disagree with MOST is the P-J dimension which is based on just a few fleeting mentions in Jung’s Psychological Types where he said that intuition and sensing are perceptive functions whereas thinking and feeling are judging functions; this unfortunately gave rise to the P-J dimension in MBTI which is nonsense because there are disorderly INTJs and orderly ESTPs. Another problem is that it shifts from the functions themselves towards behaviour and how we would “arrange items on our workplaces”, for example. As an INTJ I am very orderly but my order is very subjective so anyone who walks into my room has a 50% chance of disagreeing that I am orderly which doesn’t make me an INTP. Granted, I understand that J-P are to be ignored and just used to show the abbreviation of the type but it still is annoying.
Since reading your article I went and picked up Psychological Types at the library. I’ve gotten half-way through Chapter 10 so far.
I’ve read up on the 16Types previously so it is kinda biasing my reading a little bit. This text is more in-depth in terms of how the person thinks it seems.
Also Jung isn’t writing in a self-help kinda way… he writes very matter of factly, and talks a lot about the pitfalls of each function/attitude. His discussion on the conscious vs. unconscious processes is also pretty interesting.
🙂 I’m glad you’re finding it interesting.
Yeah Jung mostly wrote his observations of people after a life time of being a psychotherapist with rich/upper-class/elite people of his time and he considered himself some sort of a scientist; he (wrongly) said about himself that he had introverted thinking as his dominant so he viewed himself as a theorist who made observations.
Cheers for the clarification, Titus.
I also made a mistake: Jung is Swiss, not German (I was thinking of Freud who was Austrian).
INTP – I did this test 2 or 3 times a few years ago.
Being Introvert by nature presents hurdles as the world is full of loud, witless gobshites.
But once you get your shit together it’s actually the best way to be. Being an introvert by nature gives you perspective into the minds of others, and it also allows me to plan, even scheme and play different roles as and when the situation demands.
It’s just tough in those earlier years. But I find introverts to be stronger people when it comes to the crunch
The problem is women are attracted to loud, witless gobshits. That’s what makes it frustrating
Haha you don’t have to tell me, pal!
The worst situation is when a woman says, “you’re different to everyone else aren’t you”. I used to get that a hell of a lot before I put up a bit of an arrogant asshole front to shake it off in my early 20s.
If you read History and can play chess they assume you’re a savant of some kind.
how did you Respond to “you’re different to everyone else aren’t you”
With shame
Hence the asshole front I adopted
Not necessarily; that happens mostly when they are young but if you can be a super-confident quiet masculine introverted guy then they’ll be much more attracted to you.
The trick is to think that being loud doesn’t make them any better; if you do, you automatically behave/think that you’re lower value whereas if you are perfectly happy with whom and how you are then they’ll gravitate towards you like planets around the sun.
Also, I’ve read a study that out of all NTs, INTPs have the most successful marriages (or biggest number of married people, whatever).
I hope it helps
Not necessarily. If you are the quiet type but always thinking about something in your own internal universe, many women find that air of mystery very intriguing. Cultivate an engaging conversational style with wit and sense of humour where necessary, and you can be far more interesting that the loud mouths full of hot air. You might not talk a lot all the time, but when you do talk, it has that much more gravitas than someone who’s always flapping his lips about all sorts of bullshit. You become multi dimensional – able to show poise and quiet strength, *and* engaging enthusiasm as you desire. I’m INTP too so I play to my strengths 🙂
I think introverts have to develop solid inner game.
Faking it just won’t do if underneath everything is all messed up.
Absolutely. Although I have to say there is this misconception that every ‘introvert’ is some shy, messed up, socially inept loner who fears human interaction. That’s not true. Of course there are people like that, but there’s also a huge spectrum.
What introversion really means is that someone needs a certain amount of time alone to recharge. Think of introversion as an inclination to introspection. So it doesn’t mean an introvert is not capable of social interaction or incapable of enjoying it. It just means they also need their personal space for some time, since too much interaction becomes draining for them. So as long as an introvert is able to balance things out, he can do just as well as anyone in social situations.
By contrast, a true extrovert is someone who derives energy from constant interaction. The downside is that these kind of people are more likely to feel lost and lonely or even depressed if they don’t get enough of it. Probably we all have met that type of person who always needs to have buddies around in everything they do. In any case, all personality types have their strengths and weaknesses, but whatever those are it doesn’t mean it’s some unavoidable destiny. Man is infinitely adaptable as well.
I’m an INTP, my subtype is NIPT “the social hacker” the kind that can easily put his ideas in people minds.
http://wambly.weebly.com/the-24-intp-subtypes.html
INTP high five, Brother! 😉
Looking at your link I’d fall under the Specialist niche, with more than a few elements of Armchair General
Looks like I’m the reset button (ITPN). Seems about right.
On the P-J dimension… I’ve been familiar with the model for a few years now and have trouble integrating how J types (whose first extroverted function is rational) are necessarily more orderly and scheduled than P types: is this dimension what determines the preferred functions or, as one would expect, are your functions what determine if you are a P/J type, irrespective of your tendency to plan things ahead or improvise as per most of the tests out there ?
For instance, I’m pretty sure I’m an irrational introvert (MBTI IxxJ) because I fit Jung’s description of these better than any other, and because there’s no way I lead with Fi or Ti. Yet, MBTI assumes than since my outward visible function is either Fe or Te, I am orderly, scheduled, etc. while it’s absolutely not the case. In fact, by tests I tend to score P !
What do you think of the criticism these theories and systems have received, ranging from flaws like the one I’ve mentioned to other important issues like theoretical foundations (boy, does not Jung read like mumbo-jumbo a lot of the time), etc ? The types and dynamics are out there, as anyone not too deep on the unfortunate side of the autistic spectrum can attest, but are MBTI and other similar systems reliable enough, or are we just too eager to buy into it ?
Cheers !
Tested ISTJ. I feel like a minority here. Same personality as Guderian, Frederick the Great and Dönitz, among other generals. Pretty cool. Always been attracted to the officer profession, and gonna try to become one. I got the mind for it at least.
I prefer socionics over Myers Briggs, it’s far more concrete and goes out of its way to be very logically sound and preventing you from making mistaken intuitive leaps. It’s more complicated and harder to understand, but far better developed. The way in which they see and analyze relationships is also superior to Myers Briggs.
w w w.the16types . info/info/typesview.htm
Read the types, and see which one of these resonates with you the most. I’m an ENTP, and I’m sure that most of us in the manosphere will be of the NT or “intellectual” type.
Born a loner, raised a loner, walk a loner, risen as a warrior. If people want to be at my side then good and if not still good but even better for me. I can study in my own time and focus on my preferred ambition without ANYONE trying to tell me what I can’t do and what I can.
I’am the master of my fate and destiny. I’am N3UR0G3N and will NEVER comprimise my stead for no religion and for NO ‘Omen.
Bless to ROK writers and commentators, you are saving lives for you gentlemen have saved mine. Ta Ka ji Ka Nei!
Intp
I’m an INTJ. Reading through the comments, it doesn’t seem like there are any Fs in this community. That’s a pretty dangerous echo chamber…
The S/N axis makes more sense when you understand that it’s basically about class. The sensate types are those crude, lower-class, “living in the now because they aren’t able to aspire to anything better” folks; and the the intuitive types are we finer, more sensitive, attuned to a higher reality and quite a bit wealthier people.
Nothing that comes from Europe makes any sense unless you consider how it interacts with class. It’s kinda like race in America.
As for P/J, that’s about whether libido mainly flows in (via the S/N perceptive faculties) or flows out (via the T/F judging faculties). Scientific evidence for these ideas? Zero.
I/E was tacked on later by Messrs Myers/Briggs.
The Myers-briggs test and jungian psychology are meaningless, and they resemble personality categorizations of horoscopes.