Culture

4 Steps For Fighting Divorce Rape

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This article assumes that you face a breakup, see signs of a breakup in the future, or have realized that you wish to break up with a girl who has the opportunity to legally pursue asset settlements, child support, or child custody processes against you.

Every situation is different, of course, and requires different tactics. Different jurisdictions, family structures, financial circumstances and personal preferences lead to different issues and different outcomes. The point of this article is not to detail specific tactics to use but to set the tone and mentally prepare for what may be a coming battle.

Just to make it clear, I am not a qualified lawyer, this is not official legal advice, just a guide. I have to advise you to consult a lawyer, even though it probably won’t help much anyway.

1. Get the right paradigm

divorce 2

Switch to a business-like approach

Understand that this should not be treated as an emotional crisis or a crisis of love. Once that hammer falls and it’s over, this is a business process and a legal process—treat it that way. One reason divorce rape is so devastating for men is that they are still playing with their hearts and not with their heads.

Instead try to imagine it as a game you want to win. The rules of games are not always sensible or fair, but they exist and have to be dealt with. Maybe you have lawyers chasing you, lies are being told, and unfair laws being used against you. That’s a setback and it’s sad, but don’t take it personally. Think rationally about what is the best chance of getting back in the game on the best terms that are available to you.

The rules are stacked against men, but that’s no excuse for sitting down and crying. Cool off, fight back, win, then it will seem quite satisfying to consider it a personal matter, not before.

2. Moral armament

Many men feel paralyzed in the face of the law. They can’t quite bring themselves to fight to the limit because they don’t feel morally empowered to do so. Don’t take that attitude. Just because it’s law doesn’t mean it is just. If the laws are being used against you are immoral there is no reason to feel bound by morality. It’s called the principal of self defense.

When attacked it is acceptable to respond in kind. If you are mugged by a man with a knife it’s probably not a good idea to fight back physically, but there is no moral obligation to mention the cash in your back pocket either. Take the same attitude to the government in this situation. They are trying to steal your hard-won assets as a property settlement, your hard earned income as child support, and take your children away from you.

They will not give you the things a man should be rightfully entitled to in return. Don’t feel obliged to be open, generous, reasonable or honorable in the face of straight out theft.

3. Learn the rules

Family law is a labyrinth of rules, regulations and precedents. The more you personally know, the better the chances of coming out in a good position. Lawyers can help, but don’t rely on them. If you put yourself in the hands of a lawyer fully, that will usually just mean waiting passively for the system to grind expensively to its conclusion. It won’t be presented that way, but that is what will happen.

That will be just fine for the lawyer, but not for you. Many of the best tactics will be outside their sphere of interest or not acceptable for them to mention, so they won’t mention them. Start learning the rules of the game, personally. Think of it as a second job or a night course, it’s that important. Legal systems are usually hopelessly slow, clumsy, and imprecise. Know when, where, and how you can take advantage of those weaknesses.

4. Think outside the box and hit the ground running

Passivity, despair and fatalism are great enemies in this fight. The law will assume that most circumstances are fixed, but they don’t have to be. Don’t sit and wait for things to happen, make them happen. In many jurisdictions matters take a long time to be settled, so hustle while you wait.

Start drawing money out of accounts as soon as it’s certain to be over. Change your apparent family structure, work and living arrangements to your advantage. Possession is most of the law, so get as many assets and family members into your possession as possible.

Starve her of funds. Find ways to reduce your legal income. Make payments in advance to hide assets. Arrange to have or claim to have other dependents you have to support. Escape to another jurisdiction along with your money. Never agree to any request without getting something in return, even if it seems reasonable in isolation. Don’t overlook small gains, they add up. The specific tactics are not the point here. The point is to do something. There are many ways to improve your position, so start doing them right now and don’t stop.

This doesn’t have to be the end—learn to adapt

dicorce 3

The end of one era is just the beginning of another

Men who feel that their lives are over after a divorce are usually those whose lives were over before their divorce. People who thought that they shouldn’t need to adapt to circumstances and that their future was just going to be more of the same.

There are other jobs. There are other towns. There are other girls. There are other opportunities. There are even other countries. Some of these options will lead to a good life after a divorce. Work out which ones those are, then go and get some.

Read More: Why The U.S. Divorce Rate Is Not Important

352 thoughts on “4 Steps For Fighting Divorce Rape”

  1. Don’t get married in the US. Government has no right to dictate terms of matrimony in the first place.

    1. Laws can always change dude, that’s why always stay on top of the latest legal news in the area that you reside in. Not only family law but other types of laws as well like: taxation, criminal, corporate… etc.

        2. You can choose to ignore reality, but you can’t choose to ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.

        3. I’m not ignoring anything. The problem is caused by government involvement in this it should not be involved in. Removing government in personal affairs is the solution.

      2. I know I wont sell untaxed cigarettes on the streets of NYC since the cops will kill you for it.

    2. That is what I thought when I read the title; what other than don’t get married do you need to do?

        3. It makes you wonder when exactly men are going to wake up and realize what kind of game is being played. I suspect it’s going to get a lot worse.

        4. Men are just like that Energizer bunny.. They keep going and going: pussy, pussy, pussy, pussy.. They will only wake up when we are all completely out financially, emotionally etc.. It’ll take some time..

        6. “Intervention by aliens”
          Looking at the state of affairs on Earth, who can blame them from staying away?

        7. the Swiss laws are also quite fair to the man… automatic joint custody, she can’t leave the country with the kids without the father’s permission… and the husband is only obligated to maintain living standards she is used to…. even if he is loaded wealthy, provided they lived in a modest apartment… that’s all she gets….. and if she’s of working age, she’s obligated to work and they only look at the monthly / annual living costs of the family to decide the financial support requirement…… income is not considered…..

        8. they’re loading up the death ray to vape the entire planet, before we develop better spaceships and pollute the entire cosmos…..

        9. I’ve come to the blessed realization that I’ve been asexual for all of my adult life.
          The libidos of millions of Japanese men have mysteriously vanished over the last few years. Here’s to hoping.

        10. Damn that’s scary especially the part where dating can make you a common-law spouse in canada(except in Quebec), So if you have assets than move to Quebec then if your Canadian???

        12. I hope that happens.
          That will aid MGTOW.
          And we’ll be entertained by choruses of “where have all the good men gone? ” forever! Lol
          Something like that will save men money.
          And separate the utmost white knights from the men.

        13. And to think, none of these things happened in Switzerland until they gave women the right to vote in the 1970’s. Coincidence? I laugh at the notion.

        14. They are probably looking for signs of intelligent life and deemed that this did not exist on Earth.

        15. And to think, none of these things happened in Switzerland until they
          gave women the right to vote in the 1970’s. Coincidence? I laugh at
          the notion.

          80% of female parliamentarians voted YES on this law.

        16. Figures. What’s surprising is that apparently 20% didn’t.
          Switzerland had such potential, they were one of the few countries upon which the model of the U.S. was meant to follow, more or less. And they turned to shit just like us, it just took longer. But shit is shit.

        17. Damn that’s scary especially the part where dating can make you a common-law spouse

          As a general rule: The better you treat your woman during your relationship, the more money the courts will grant her. Had you treated her bad (i.e. made her work, never gave her anything, never shared your money with her) the less money the courts will award her.

        19. So…if we don’t have to actually live together anymore, if we just have to ‘present ourselves as a couple in public’, does that mean if I carry on an extended affair my mistress/girlfriend could eventually sue me for divorce…even though I am married to someone else??

        25. In a way, that kinda makes sense. It’s like in some twisted jacked up way they are trying to train men to become Alpha again and stop babying these women.
          Whatever. Note to self. Make my girlfriend support me, never move in or claim her, and keep all my finances private and separate.

        27. Liv in a state … like TN … that doesn’t hav common-law. She can liv with you for 20 years and still not be your legal wife (already tested in the courts).

        29. The only aliens willing to show up in the US are bringing in measles, EV-68 , & leeching off benefits.

      2. If I were in charge, there’d be pictures of men crying with their assholes gaping open on the cover page of every prenuptial agreement (just like you have pictures of diseased lungs on packs of cigarettes). Should make men think twice about signing them.

    3. The Christian churches, to try and solidify their place, used pious politicians to enshrine marriage in the state’s hands. That’s why they are losing their collective shiat right now, they never thought they’d be on the short end of the stick. This is why you don’t invite government into personal matters. The governments of the world, but especially in the West, took the concept of marriage and solidified it into a government sanctioned contract.
      Arguably, marriage was a contract before this happened. That’s another reason people “let” this happen. You want to merge finances, et al., the government provided a “standardized” contract form and enforcement. What was appealing is now thoroughly dangerous to men in Hetero marriages. The state owns you the moment you sign that marriage certificate far more thoroughly than it could if you didn’t.

      1. Well said. Governments support causes to take rights away, not expand them. The history of it is disturbing. Eugenicist groups first lobbied to have the State involved in marriage so whites and blacks would be forbidden to marry, which is also when blood tests were instituted. This didn’t happen because the State is benevolent and wanted to do good, it happened because busybodies wanted to use the power of the State to impose their will on others; As SJWs do today.
        State power is always used for this reason but I digress. I’m a strong advocate of stripping all marriages from the government [straight, gay or otherwise]. They didn’t have that power until the 20th Century, so there’s no reason they should have it now.

        1. Unfortunately, they did have that power before the 20th century. Massachusetts came out with that crap in 1639 as a protest to leaving it up to the churches.
          “…in the Massachusetts Bay Colony, the dissenters from the Church of England objected to the regulation of marriage by canon law, and as early as 1639 adopted statutes and regulations governing marriage in that colony.”
          https://www.legis.iowa.gov/DOCS/Central/Guides/marriage.pdf
          So…. the earliest “separation of church and state” wannabe libertarian busybodies actually helped INCREASE the power of the state. Hard to imagine what those fools thought would happen by giving that kind of power to government.

      2. Ironically I had heard this exact same argument coming from a Libertarian gay lawyer who had penned an op-ed arguing that gay marriage should not be that important of an issue for “his community”

      3. The state stepped into the role of regulating marriage when the church’s role in civic affairs regressed, and the line between the two became more clear. The institution was always important to society.

      4. People didn’t just “let” it happen, it was the whole point of marriage 1.0. It was an economic contract. All this business about love and matrimony was created in the 60s to sell nylons.

    4. Glad someone said it. Also, a good way to tell a Statist apart from an actual Liberal is to inquire about their views of marriage.
      Classical liberals believe in a strict separation of church and state. Which is why the Bill of Rights never mentions marriage. Why? It’s a religious rite, not a civil right. It’s something churches did, not governments. Statists do not hold the principles of classical liberals and anyone who truly believes in a separation of church and state, would want the government out of the marriage business.

        1. Thank you sir. I prefer to use Statists vs non-Statists to avoid any confusion. The Left vs Right aka Liberal vs. Conservative aka Democrat vs. GOP farce is a false dichotomy. One I wish we could conquer as those labels obfuscate the truth. Conservatives are much more “Liberal” than Liberals, who are essentially neo-Marxists now. Which is the true irony; The former gave the world its first modern democracies, whereas the later is rooted in totalitarianism but parades itself as “equality.”

        2. The Left vs Right aka Liberal vs. Conservative aka Democrat vs. GOP farce is a false dichotomy.

          Exactly. The real rift runs between statists and non-statists. Because it doesn’t matter whether the government kills you and taxes you to death for leftist or for rightist reasons.

      2. Stunning, sir. An excellent observation. Eliminate the legal status of marriage and a whole lot of things would be different.

      4. Well said. As a classical liberal myself aka “libertarian” (with strong misgivings about immigration of course) you make a point many of us have been making for most of our lives.

        1. And we can include education, healthcare and policing. Hell you can’t even trust the government to deliver the mail on time!

        2. Absolutely.
          Education – that’s the job of the parents or private institutions
          Healthcare – that’s a private matter between me and my doctor, paid for with my funds.
          Policing – the police are only there, at best, to take the report. Self defense is always everybody’s first priority as individuals. No exceptions.

        3. Have you heard about the child abuse being conducted in American schools by the police? Preparing our children for life in a totalitarian state.
          In Britain self defense is virtually a crime. Only the police are allowed to beat and criminals.

        4. Not really, no.
          Self defense – my kid’s high school has mandatory archery classes, their mascot is pioneer guy with a rifle in hand, and their lunchroom is called “The Powder Keg”.

        5. Archery huh? One of my friends was a member of the “elite” in Britain. While guns were denied to the plebs he and his classmates were training in how to military grade rifles, pistols and shotguns. He was a certified marksman by 11 years old.
          Whatever it takes to keep the scum in line.
          Look into the treatment of kids today. Its pretty awful.

      5. Great points made and mentioned.
        Although, I have to admit that I enjoyed the picture of the cake that was leaning more for the man to escape his fate.

      7. Ironically enough I first heard this exact argument from a gay guy while the debate for gay marriage was raging a few years back. As a Libertarian he argued the same points – didn’t feel gay marriage was that important

    5. If you do get married, even if you are wealthy, maintain only modest living standards, and keep the money in a business you owned before the marriage.. it takes 10 years before it’s true 50/50….. most states these days recognize only her right to live as she is accustomed to…. that middle class 2 bedroom apartment will be just fine…… keep that 10,000sqft penthouse as a business premises you wine and dine her at occasionally….

        1. the one who wins, is the one who has the least to lose….. it’s hard not to give a fuck when the 20,000sqft mansion and $10M in stock options are at stake…
          women love divorce because it means they get to fuck a new man and potentially have more kids with him…… thus spreading their genes around….. and creating an additional support system…

        2. It really pisses you of at times (if you’re a man). Those “strong” and “independent” women out there (with the help of daddy government) getting half, moving out and in with another man. At that point the woman has her income, a new income and half of your income (with the kids) while the ex-husband lives on half of his income.
          Yes, it’s all about equality.

      2. Your comment is based on the assumption that the divorce courts are based in law and have rules which you can use to advantage the man. There are no rules. This is not considered as a contract when it comes to dissolution. It is considered a court of equity. That means the judge can do anything he wants; whatever he thinks is “equitable”. That man (usually) in black robes is a thief (always) with only one goal; to stick it to the man so this woman suffers no loss when she trashes her marriage. No matter what you do they will hunt down every cent you have and give it to her if they have to throw you in jail and rape you.

      1. If someone wants to have children, it’s proven that a two parent household is beneficial to the child’s upbringing. There are plenty of countries where women aren’t given carte blanche in the divorce.

    7. Marriage is now effectively partnership (unevenly slanted towards females).
      But marriage, and by that I mean – genuine old school pre-Late-19th century reforms, husband as legal head of household – traditional marriage, served a ABSOLUTE necessary civic function.
      To children, it provided economic support (w/o taxing the rest of us), it gave stability in the home with 2 parents, it gave a sense of connection to the one’s ancestors with 2 biological parents, and it provided strong male influence to both sons and daughters, the most important part of which was a respect for legitimate authority and the tempering of selfish instinct.
      To women, it provided a provider and proctector (w/o taxing the rest of us) and long term compensation for choosing one man young in life, having sex exclusively with him and bearing his children.
      To men, it provided exclusive sex and spouse to bear and raise his children.
      To society, it minimized our tax burden, kept men incentivized to produce more than they needed, kept women from turning into whores and kept children orderly as they grew into adults, and gave all an interest in the community as a whole.
      It was necessary. It is necessary.
      We’ve decided none of that was true, but that doesn’t make it so.
      Society, by way of government, has every right and obligation to create, regulate and incentivize marriage. It’s just that they don’t anymore.
      Because marriage doesn’t exist. What we have are formalized egalitarian partnerships, which are wholly meaningless.
      Now we’ll just have to wait and see how bad things can get when we ignore our holy book, our collective past experience/wisdom and our own eyes.

    9. Sure, but the article was aimed at men who have already been married off, or at least are under some legal obligations with regards to children or ‘common law’ marriage aka – the state marrying you against your will and wishes.
      I do echo your sentiment, although I myself am married and have kids. My day is not the modern young man’s day, so don’t think that because I handled my shit that you will be able to, because things have changed. Even men my age who think about marrying in this day and age are beyond hope. If you didn’t lock her down in the 1980’s and don’t have a long history that even she is loathe to destroy, you have no chance.

  3. For anyone curious – or in need of a reminder – as to what divorce rape entails: watch “The War of the Roses”, 1989, with Michael Douglas, Danny DeVito, and Kathleen Turner.
    It’s listed as a black comedy, but it’s actually a brilliant red pill documentary on the subject of divorce rape. As usual, Michael Douglas’s character is the one getting raped.
    http://oi62.tinypic.com/whog0n.jpg

    1. The more Michael showed his wife how much he cared for her the more she despised him! To a woman the only thing worst than a white knight is a white knight who is “too available.”

      1. Oliver Rose (Douglas): “I think you owe me a solid reason. I worked my ass off for you and the kids to have a nice life and you owe me a reason that makes sense. I want to hear it.”
        Barbara Rose (Turner): “Because. When I watch you eat. When I see you asleep. When I look at you lately, I just want to smash your face in.“

        1. Then the expression on her face was saying “is that “sense” enough for you, Oliver?” LOL!

    2. A movie even worse than this was Last Tango in Paris. Brando is cruel, indifferent to a younger woman. Treats her like garbage. She cant get enough. When he finally confides in her, it all goes to shit (and I wont spoil the shocking ending, this came out in the early 70s, before things were so bad, so it implied to me women were always like this).

    3. Actually I like Douglas’ character in that movie. He saw the rapin’ a comin’, so he fought back like a true asshole, to the point of taking the broad (and himself of course) out totally.
      Her reason for leaving? “I was thinking about what it would be like if he died, and I realized I didn’t care, time to divorce”. A prelude to Eat, Pray, Love if ever one existed.

  4. “Men who feel that their lives are over after a divorce are usually those whose lives were over before their divorce” is a great line from this article. Many people discontinue their own personal desires and goals once married and just fill a role that’s expected. If you keep up with your passions, friends, hobbies, etc.. during any relationship, you’ll be in a far better position if it ends.

    1. What if you find a woman who shares and supports your personal desires and goals? I’m considering having children at some point in the future and the current LTR (dating 3 years, co-habitation 1) seems to fit most standard advised criteria – feminine, loyal, supportive, conservative/traditional, helps train the dog, etc. Only problem is that she wants to get married. Granted, I’m still going to try to work around that, but just curious as to when you find a good one.

      1. LOLZ.. Man, wake up.. You are being played big time..
        If you marry she wins and you lose.. You are already half way there with the cohabitation..Oh, well…

        1. Dude, I’m fully on the look out for that. I don’t think I am. In three years our biggest fight was over whether to go camping on vacation and that latest 5 minutes with no raised voices. I don’t get lip. I don’t get scolded or shamed for anything I choose to do (even the daily pot smoking and love of comic books and model building). Nothing in three years has hinted at “bitch gonna turn crazy with a ring/kids.”
          What am I missing or not seeing?

        2. You are putting her on a pedestal… That’s one.. And the rest will flow from there.. I wish you good luck, in the true sense. There is no sarcasm. I really do wish you good luck.

        3. “What am I missing or not seeing?”
          The potential of your relationship to turn nasty. Given the odds against you, don’t think for a second you are going to live happily ever after with her.

        4. Don’t confuse objective assessment based on first hand observation as a pedestal. Unless your plan is to pump and dump over and over and over, you have to at some point come to the conclusion that some point the broad is worth seeing again. Unless you are setting up a Catch-22 in order to support your viewpoint.

        5. I was in a LTR for 8.5 years and convinced myself she was “the one”. She was the one alright, the one to break my heart with no warning. Always be on alert!

        6. I am not confusing anything man. Been married twice.. That should do for experience… or stupidity.. you can look at it either way..

        7. Well, the odds are that marriages don’t end in divorce 50-60% of the time. My theory is that based on what “red pill” knowledge of women and relationships, I have largely stacked the deck in my favor. The odds are against an average frustrated chump the same way they are against some pimply face teen sitting at a poker table for his first time. Not saying I’m right, I just like putting my thoughts to words.

        8. Here’s something for you.. An idea… Do this. Don’t work for about 6 months to 1 year.. THAT’S the test.. But you have to make it look like you really don’t want to work, not interested to provide, you want to “find yourself” and shit.. See how that goes for her..
          If you get married, and she turns into a land whale, I am sure you would not leave her. See if she does the same if you don’t bring the bacon home.

        9. “the odds are that marriages don’t end in divorce 50-60% of the time.”
          They may not end in divorce, but in misery.

        10. So if marriage is unworkable, how do we keep the population going? No marriage and just knock up girls? Or don’t we keep it going?

        11. Haha. I already tested the waters with two months of fun-employment last summer. I’m 35 with advanced degrees, finding myself would be a pathetic mid-life crisis and any woman should rightfully leave me.
          I already made her promise not to get fat before we moved in together (and to get rid of her cat), but I get your point. Cheers.

        12. Here’s something for you.. And idea…Do this. Don’t work for about 6 months to 1 year

          LOL! Right on. It does sound like someone has forgotten Briffault’s Law, doesn’t it? Women escape faster than Houdini from a relationship with no benefit. I imagine it would look something like this:

        13. Do you mind expanding? What did she do? Do you know why (other than she’s a woman/crazy)? What signs should somebody be looking for? This is the practical knowledge I need.

        16. Rollo IS the authority.. I think one day there will be a federal Rollo holiday just as we have the MLK one.

        17. I just read his new “loyalty and hypergamy” post. The featured story of the veteran got to me.

        18. “finding myself would be a pathetic mid-life crisis and any woman should rightfully leave me.”
          Wait, wut? Aren’t we equal?

        19. From one day to the next she just ended the relationship. It’s like if she woke up that day and decided to end it. Based on what I could gather at the time, she stopped loving me. That was pretty much it. I didn’t bother asking for more because what is done, is done. I moved on and started working on things that made me happy. Mind you, SHE was the one that kept talking about marriage and kids. she even wanted to live with me and share a bank account. I said no to all except marriage (I was planning on asking her within several months. Dodged that bullet). She was traditional and nothing like the women we talk about here. However, she is still a woman.

        20. I’ve said it before and I’ll say again: Never wed for love or without the prospect of direct benefit, i.e. increase in money, power and or social status.
          Women control marriage in the West and our options are slavery within the confines of marriage or indentured servitude via an emasculating, soul-crushing divorce. Thus are the horns of marriage; We are gored wherever we turn.

        21. i haven’t read it. But I will now. He was right, the red pill is hard to swallow. And once you do, there is no turning back–you’ll never see life the same.

        23. Well said. Just seen some poor bastard walk into Subways two days ago. Family of four. Father, two daughters of no older than 6, and a chubster of a wife. The man could have been ripped right out of a CBS sitcom the buffoonery was that strong. He smiled as his wife barked at him. His little stared straight faced as if it was business as usual. He looked at me with a smile on his face. I couldn’t even look him in the eye as I bolted with my sandwich. He should have bolted before marriage.

        24. Good luck soldier. Maybe it will be as simple as keeping her needling in check. Don’t get comfortable either. Many a great man has fallen to a woman.

        25. I’m not going to pretend this will work for everyone, but for me it was: I committed when I was confident that I had control over her psyche.
          It’s not a simple thing, unfortunately. Women are intrinsically wired to abuse the pair bond, because the pair bond evolved as a beta male mating strategy, and the males involved therein did not have alternatives.
          Thus your only defense is to leave her forever feeling that she has barely managed to convert an alpha to the pair bond. If she isn’t sacrificing extensively for you, she isn’t under your control, and sooner or later she will abuse her privilege.
          Or just sink into beta male complacency and let her fuck around on you. Oddly, that isn’t actually all that bad of an outcome.

        26. See if you can get GhostOfJefferson to chime in.
          He’s the only one I know on here (could be others, he’s the only one I know for sure) who’s been married 20something years, had children which he raised successfully with his wife, kept his balls the whole way through, and is still happily married.
          If you’re seriously considering marriage, i think he’ll be able to give a slightly different perspective on what to look for and what you need to do to keep things running smoothly than most people.
          Pretty sure the first thing he will tell you is he doesn’t recommend marriage in today’s world, but after that you’ll get some good advice.

        27. Are you referring to “dread game”? Because, yeah, that’s what I’m doing. Also, I have the added bonus of having worked in the estate planning legal field for a few years and am friends with all the best divorce lawyers in town. And she knows that…

        28. Thanks, man. Not to toot my own horn, but I’ve never been one to rest on my laurels and I’m so distrusting that I can’t even sit with my back to a restaurant. I’ve gotten older and like the idea of raising kids. Little did I know my past 35 years going through a string of sluts and retards would be training for keeping one in line. If ever there was one to cautiously take on the endeavor of children/marriage, that would be me. Like I said, still just sounding this out in my head and on here.

        29. I was hoping he would chime in. I’ve heard his disclaimer too, but some of us red pillers need to have kids and keep society moving forward.

        30. Basically, yes. To keep her committed you have to simultaneously project high value and constantly be drifting away.
          I took it a bit deeper. I was stunned when I later read up on the pimp-whore relationship, and I realized I had unwittingly been pimping. It’s near impossible to internalize that the whores want to give the pimps money, they need to give them money; it fulfills them to give money to the pimp. It’s terribly difficult to wrap your mind around, but it is real. For the right man, they find joy in sacrifice, but you have to be the right man and let them sacrifice.
          To be honest, I didn’t get there before marrying and having kids. In hindsight, I unconsciously push-pulled throughout, but I really went deep later on, and achieved remarkable control. I was utterly secure and comfortable.
          Most player game doesn’t address achieving that kind of control within a relationship; it’s oriented around acquiring (not keeping) the woman.
          For a bit of non game perspective, I recommend Rosebudd “American Pimp” and “Brothel”, which is a peek inside the life in the Mustang Ranch. The psychology of the prostitutes is eye opening. Not what you might expect.

        31. Men want to be treated like pimps, but they don’t do pimping. It’s the converse of how women want to be treated like ladies, but they don’t act ladylike.
          Keep your game tight, keep your options open, don’t be afraid to demand from her, let her give to you, and you will be astonished by how loyal she can be.
          Like Red Hood’s Assault pointed out, many a great man has fallen. That is most simply explained by the notion that pair bonding is a beta game and elicits weakness in men. One way to avoid that is to view the relationship as a game unto itself.
          It’s horribly tempting to view the relationship as a partnership. It is, but most definitely not one of equals. You’ll give security and completion to her; it’s almost impossible to understand how important those things are to women, and in return you should expect her to give tremendously. She’ll thank you for the comfort you give her, and will be gratified to sacrifice herself in return.

        32. Hey, what about me, hombre? Ten years, three kids. It can work, but you have to have an almost pathological need for autonomy.
          Or, like I said, just relax and let your inner beta take over. Sure, your wife will fuck other guys, but once you get past that particular issue, it ain’t so bad.
          The only real problem is if you act beta but expect to be treated as alpha. To be honest, I don’t blame lots of women for cracking up.

        33. Duly noted. 😉
          Like I said he was the only one I could confirm before. Now there’s two.
          EDIT: btw, I don’t think that’s necessarily pathological…it’s just way the men all used to be. Men led the household, and that meant maintaining part of their autonomy to do things by themselves or just with other men. All those male clubs (Elks, Rotary, Moose, etc) were all parts of that. Women hate them, but men needed their male time without kids or wife.

        34. One more thought and I’ll shut up: You should start a thread on Roosh V Forum to collect the wisdom of men who made it work.

        35. Witnessing a man like the one you just described is like seeing your mother in a bukkake video; It’s a hard to watch. I doubt I would have looked him in the eye either, though I can understand how it happened. How much do you want to bet she was sweet as honey during their betrothal? She no doubt cooked, cleaned and stayed in shape; He was probably getting fucked on the reg, sucked the reg; He was still hanging with his boys on the reg…but that’s the candy they use to lure you into the sketchy Chevrolet Astro with “marriage” written on the side. Little did the poor schlub know he would wander out with a sore ass and no candy. LOL!

        36. Yah, I was being a little bit facetious. It’s only pathological in the context of pair bonds that are fundamentally driven by beta dependency.
          You can’t exclude women from male spaces, but it’s not hard to make them sufficiently unappealing so they self exclude.

        37. Wander out?? His daily visits to work, car, garage, and chance to view his home from the outside are all visitation rights. He should be happy she grants him that much.
          The guy you just posted though? Did he get tricked with a Ben and Jerry’s truck? That poor bastard might need to find his penis again. Hopefully long before divorce ever does.

        38. There is no victory in marriage, except hers. I dated my ex-wife for over 7 years, no signs no symptoms. Less than 1 month into the marriage, the wheels came off the bus. She assaulted me and called the cops. Only her temper that had suddenly manifested kept her honest and from giving into the cop’s pleas to give any reason to arrest me instead. Our divorce was finalized just a couple months after our first anniversary, but not until after she totaled my vehicle and drained the 40K in the only account she knew about. So I guess what I am saying is the 1st sign of trouble is saying “I do”

        39. That guy took a tour of Willy Wonka’s Factory and brought out Violet Beauregarde.

        40. Wow. This is important real world research you have done. I have heard from a large number of friends that “things literally changed radically THE DAY AFTER THE HONEYMOON”. And I went through almost 3 years of dating and almost married an ex gf that would have made me ABSOLUTELY MISERABLE but I could not see it at the time. But wow, 7 years, and still no warning signs? This is terrifying stuff. I already feel very apprehensive about ever marrying, even to a foreign woman, because they have the POTENTIAL to flip 180 degrees on any given day without warning. But to know even a 7 year screening process is not good enough? That is shocking.

        41. I agree that he’s a trustful source for good advice. But also, there is a large amount of luck involved, and you have to consider perspective bias. Marriage is simply not a good prospect for most men today. If I won money every time I played roulette, I would tell you how it was far superior to every other game in the casino. But the facts do not bear that out for the average person.

        42. The only advice I can give is think back to the SMALLEST THINGS you can remember, preferably from the beginning of the relationship before you were emotionally attached and were more rational and discerning of this potential girlfriend, and think about ANYTHING that gave you pause. I dated a girl for almost 3 years, was engaged, she suddenly ended the relationship over the telephone with no warning, no discussion, not even ever telling me she was unhappy or that there were problems we should discuss. She mentioned she had gone to a therapist and I could come to a meeting, and then the next day she backed out and said no, she really just never wanted to see me again. She is/was not seeing anyone else, just flipped off her emotions like a switch.
          In my case, the first time I planned to visit her as a couple (she lived hours away) she was completely controlling and did not like the day I planned to arrive and wanted me there on a specific day (which was a more expensive flight for me). I actually hung up the phone and sat there and pondered whether I should go or not, as this was a big turnoff. Only in hindsight was it clear that this was a sign she was selfish and stubborn.
          She had a happily married family (no father is a HUGE red flag) but she was also in her late 20s and had not had a serious relationship before. So she really didn’t know how to behave and communicate. At the time I thought this was a plus as it meant she had less mileage. But no, it meant she never learned how to behave in a 2 person relationship and there is no teaching them at that age.
          She had no pets (no responsibility, no loving of another creature) and was an independent career woman in a large city (she truly does not “need” a man the way women have for centuries). She has not remained in contact with any former boyfriends (sounds good at first, but shows the ability to completely shut off emotions and pretend this person never meant anything to you).
          It took me a while to discover this, but she literally could not apologize. The closest I got was when she said I’m sorry you felt upset when I did x. She could not actually apologize for doing something wrong. I don’t think she could even see that she could do wrong. That blew my mind.
          The scary thing is that unless you are hypercritical (in which case 99.99% of American woman are unsuitable for your standards) then it is extremely difficult to rule out women based on observation. Is it possible that a girl without a cat is still a good match? Of course. Can a girl who hasn’t dated many guys make a good parter? Certainly. Can a girl with a stable income be beneficial? Sure. So even though I can now point to the above signs as red flags in my case, It is extremely hard to spot issues with women unless you are so critical of them that you meet one less than once a year that passes your standards.
          A lot of what I say parallels what Mr. H says here. I was very much in love and had NEVER EVEN CONSIDERED MARRIAGE before I dated her but really saw something different and pleasant and special in her, but I was completely missing all the warning signs. She absolutely just decided to end the relationship one day, for no discernible reason. This is the scariest part to me, because I believe the ability to suddenly turn off emotions is possible in the vast majority of, if not all women. So I can’t see myself investing in a LTR again. I have seen grown men friends cry because the woman they loved and started a family with suddenly left. I am so lucky to have found out before marriage.

        43. I am a regular commenter who has been married for 20 years. However, I married 1980s woman, not the vile trash holes available to men today

        44. Yeah, basically “Don’t get married in the West today. Ever. Period”.
          That said, if you do move to Chechnya or Russia or Malaysia and get married:
          1. Don’t bring her over here. Ever. Never, ever, ever. The disease is highly contagious and you don’t want to risk infecting her with third wave cuntism.
          2. You have to be a natural alpha. Not a guy who learned game. Not a white knight who thinks standing up to other guys on behalf of some woman in a bar is alpha. Real alpha. From soup to nuts. The reason isn’t machismo, the reason is that you need to maintain congruency full time. If you’re a natural, it just happens, but if you’re “faking it until you make it” or you had to learn “alpha” from the manosphere you WILL lower your guard at some point. Then you’re a goner. Period. Full stop.
          3. Your life, your rules. If you do not start dating with this mindeset, don’t marry her, ever. If you do, she will shit test you quite a bit at first to see how serious you are. When you pass the test (and you better) then she will decrease frequency of shit tests BUT she will never fully stop. Mrs. Jefferson occasionally floats a test now and then, but they are so easy to swat down that I think she does it just to keep me in fighting trim.
          4. Be the one who does the finances. Yes, she may be good at it and want to “help” but that will turn into her doing it all the time, over time. You control the money, you balance the chequebook, you are the one sitting down in front of your Excel spreadsheet every week keeping your investments in order.
          5. It’s fine to ask for her opinion, and sometimes she may well contribute good advice or observations that you can take in stride, but *always* be the one who makes the final decision. If she’s uncomfortable with this from the get go, do not put a ring on that finger. Even if she aquiesces and “lets you” take charge when dating, if she’s uncomfortable with it, she will immediately try to change that situation once the state has you in its vice on her behalf.
          6. Keep male friends and activities that she is not invited to nor welcome to attend. Vital thing, this. Don’t become the pastel shirt wearing buffoon who hovers around her.
          7. Did I mention, don’t marry in the West? If not, here’s your sign.
          8. Even the best woman, hell even Mrs. Jefferson, can and will likely leave you eventually once she figures out the legal odds. Always be prepared for this, never be caught flat footed. Expect every night when you come home from work to find your door locks changed and a smirking lawyer standing on the front porch informing you that you no longer have any rights to the property you earned or the children that you fathered. Any other expectation, no matter how “special” you think she is, is and will be lethal to you. If she never leaves, fantastic, but don’t count on it.
          9. Dread is a wonderful thing. A truly wonderful thing.

        45. Duly noted. There’s now three of you. 😉
          That’s definitely part of the trick. Marrying a woman back in the 1980’s or 1990’s. They were much different and gave much better odds than the women today.

        46. I actually respect Rollo as a man, he’s done what I’m doing and seems to have done it on the same terms. Difference is that he’s *much* better at delving into the complex psychology of everything and explaining it in an accessible way.
          All men can profit from this site and other manosphere sites, but if you want to go deep red pill and get to the underlying truths, Rollo is the man you go to.

        47. No disagreement with you. Luck definitley plays a part. And the timing…women back in the 80’s and early 90’s were much different than today.
          Even the men who did it successfully years ago would say that in today’s world it’s not worth doing.

        48. Agree completely spicynujac. Hence my advice of always consider her as one foot out the door and ready to destroy your life. Any other mindset is lethal to you in the long run.

        49. I think the cutoff is around 02 or 03, right around the time dating sites debuted. then 05/06 it was facebook.com…then smartphones in 08…now Tinder..lol, I dont know how you keep tabs on your woman anymore…glad Im out of it.

        51. I have been married for over 25 years; spread over 4 wives. I am married now and for the longest of any of the 4 marriages. The differences is marrying an Asian 25 year old virgin. The culture that she learned was what makes the difference. Not a week goes by that she doesn’t ask if she is making me happy, and if she is being a good wife. Good luck finding that in any western woman.
          And more on point, it still requires luck. I knew a man that won a couple of million dollars on one of the progressive slot machines in Vegas. I knew a couple that won the lottery. Just because I know these things can happen does not make me plan my life around winning against similar odds.

        53. I can take only one exception to this fine comment; you can become an alpha. I was far from a natural. Over time I had my ass handed to me so many times by women that I toughened up. I don’t have to fake being detached and aloof. I don’t have to fake a “my way or the highway” attitude. I learned that you keep all the money in your hands and make all the decisions, all the time. I don’t fake my willingness to show her to the door at a moment’s notice. The most important thing I don’t have to fake is the absolute certainty that I can live just fine without her, or any other woman, and that if I want I could replace her in a short period of time; and I am old fat and bald.
          I look at it like blacksmithing. You take a piece of iron filled with occlusions and slag. If you shaped it into a tool it would fail the first time you used it. Instead you put it in the hottest part of the furnace and then you beat the crap out of it. Then you put it back in the hottest part of the furnace and repeat the beating. You do this enough times and eventually the piece of iron is tough and suitable for making a sharp and durable tool. No one asks how the piece of iron feels about the process.

        54. Fair enough. Sounds like quite a crucible to have to go through though to get to that state. If a man has the balls to live through that kind of thing, then more power to him.

        55. Wow..thats a hell of a test..but some men have been brainwashed into thinking we should go the long mile for their significant other and most women will bitch and complain and initiate the divorce

        56. So realistically speaking then, men have to go out to broken down ski lodges and find a working hot tub, in order to marry well!
          That movie is one of my favorite guilty pleasures, heh.

        57. No one chooses this path. For most of us non-naturals who fail to win the lottery, this is the crap life hands us. You can either toughen up or fail.

        58. Hell, in my case, after shelling out nearly $100k so that she has a Master’s Degree free and clear and then ask her to allow you to go to college just for two years to try and complete a Bachelor’s Degree. It was amazing how fast, “I’m doing this for us!” became “I’m traditional, men should provide for their family!”

        59. You’re putting her on a pedestal because you’re making it sound (to yourself) as if this is some rare specimen of a woman ‘worthy’ of attention and commitment.
          Reality is, women like you describe are PLENTIFUL. They are everywhere. In fact, aside from permanently-broken western femcunts, most women are like that.
          I’m not yet 30 and I’ve been in no less than 5 long-term (more than a year) relationships, and all of them were like that. Kind, friendly, doing what I tell them, never saying no to sex, taking care of their body, doing the laundry, cooking amazing food, what have you. I’m no stud or rich playboy, I’m just a normal guy. I’m actually shorter than average and I don’t have much money. If I can net women like that imagine what a good-looking, well-to-do guy could do.
          Not saying you should dump her. Not at all. Just enjoy it as long as the good times last, and end it when appropriate. I don’t support the ‘pump and dump’ philosophy either, if it makes you feel better. I really do think being in a relationship with a woman is important for health and well-being. But don’t fool yourself, nothing is permanent. Marriage is the worst thing you could do at this point.

        60. Why do you want to keep the population going? The population is a bunch of entitled, spoiled, antisocial bastards who pass on their disgusting habits more and more each generation. Why should we give a flying fuck how many degenerate assholes are going to be alive in 100 years?
          Look, humans aren’t going to die out. Even at the fertility rate of Japan, there’s still going to be plenty of humans around for the foreseeable future. By then, either people would have pulled their heads out of their asses and renounced feminism, in which case the population will return to stable levels, or feminism will have won, in which case I say let no one breed and end it all.

        62. You sound like you want kids. The real question is, are kids worth putting up with her for? Is she good genetic material? If so, then keep your ducks in a row, do your best, have kids and if it craters you fight tooth and nail for the kids. Its not about her. Many Men throughout history have always only wanted offspring. Its the only reason they put up with a woman longterm. And rightly so. With the right attitude kids are a blast. Having children is the only real vote you have on the future. Cheers to you and the best of luck on a fucking awesome family, and on keeping your eyes open. It’s not IF she will have problems. Its WHEN.

        63. Return of Kings is not the site you need for your lifestyle with your woman. Check out http://therationalmale.com/ The writer, Rollo Tomassi, has been married for 17 years I think and he goes in depth with the mechanics of such a relationship and LTRs in general. Really enlightening stuff. Return of Kings will not help you in this regard. I too share your opinion, because I think my current gf should be worth keeping around but I’m still being cautious, and I’ve told her she’s great *so far*. I’m trying to keep her in a mindset where she has to prove herself to me.

        64. The woman I married in 1971 lied about being pregnant. A shotgun marriage followed. Eleven months after being married a son was born. My young wife decided she wanted to party now. She left with my son, went on welfare and slept with half the guys in town while I was harassed by the welfare dept. for child support. I get divorced. A few years later I start living with a girl. She gets accidentally pregnant even though she is on the pill. I decide to do the right thing and marry her in 1976. Four years and another child later she decides she is bored and starts sleeping around. I get divorced. Years later I meet a seemingly nice girl. we enjoy each others company and decide to live together. I play it safe and live with her for 8 years. She is sweet and loyal. I think there is no way anyone can fake their personality for 8 years so we get married in 1988. We rarely fought before and now we fight a lot. Ten years go by and she gets accidently pregnant despite being on the pill. Two years later she decides she is bored and many girls nights out follow. I overhear stories when her friends are talking about how much drinking she does when I am not around. She talks about how she got married too young (27). I can’t prove it but I am sure she has cheated. I am now 61 years old with a 16 year old son and a wife I can’t trust. Been married 27 years. I spoke with a lawyer about divorce. He said at the stage of life I am at it would be financial suicide to get a divorce. He encouraged me to make it work. It doesn’t matter which era women come from. They will use whatever resources are available to them at the time to further their agenda. I grew up in the ’50s and ’60s and was taught to marry young, get a house, have kids and live happily ever after. Discovered the red pill about 2 years ago. Too late. I pass my story on to young men as a warning.

      2. I found myself in a similar situation-I was with an LTR for a few years. Good luck trying to work around it though-once they get that bug, it doesn’t go away and the shaming will begin. You’ll see a huge change in her behavior, she may use sex as a weapon, have occasional outbursts, etc… I’d be very curious to hear about your progress with it and give you advice on the subject since I recently have been through it.
        I guess one thing to remember if this girl doesn’t work out, there will always be others. It’s a much bigger blow to the self worth of a woman after a breakup she doesn’t want. They place a lot of their worth and self esteem in their relationships(or lack thereof) no matter how “strong and independent” they claim to be. The biological urge never goes away for them. That being said, a breakup for a man(who doesn’t have the oneitis which sounds like you don’t have) is simply a fresh start and opportunity to pursue new women and new goals for himself.

      3. She’s just playing nice so you marry her. Once you marry her the pretense will drop after a while.
        I know this may be hard to accept. You could easily dismiss us as just ‘random people on the internet’ who know nothing about your relationship and your woman. Well, we may not know about your woman, but we do know about women.
        Your woman isn’t evil. She’s just playing a game, maybe even subconsciously. Don’t ruin the good times by marrying. If you don’t give in and don’t marry, what’s the worst that could happen? She’s not going to leave you unless she finds someone else, in which case she’s a whore and not deserving of your feelings. And if she leaves, just find another one.
        Point is, you lose nothing and gain everything by not marrying. And if she has any sense, she knows that by keeping you happy she’ll be happy, and she won’t leave.

      4. Here is the general blueprint of the scam women run on men in the pre-marriage phase :
        i feel bad for naive men who believe this shit, they are such charmers aren’t they…. they will tell you they love you, they will buy you gifts, they will write long love letters expressing their utmost passion and go over specific fun memories written in romantic stylistic fashion, they will dress sexy for you and bang, they will do whatever you tell them you like in bed, they will make nice meals, they will make you feel like your the fucking MAN, and the entire act will be convincing and you will assume that all this is proof that she is legit, oh yes, and of course she will discuss the lovely future you will have together = )
        She will complete you, Oh let me rephrase that with red-pill lenses, she will complete…ly DESTROY YOU
        😉
        Unfortunately, in life things are always TOO good to be true, the party doesn’t last,
        Sorry to say.
        Before the marriage they are on excellent behavior, because they know men are intelligent and aware they are taking a huge risk, and women are conscious of your anxiety so they work extra hard to appeal to it

      5. My wife was a sweet, nice girl for 8 years of living together. After marriage and especially after a child she changed for the worse. The more power (marriage, children) a woman gets in the relationship the more you will see her true character.

      6. Gundog, I failed to adequately address your initial question of the woman when I brought up kids. I have experience with your initial question, as well as children. The challenge is, you are attempting to project a woman’s current and past actions as your thirsty loyal girlfriend onto your version of her as your potential future wife. This can’t be done. Once the ring goes on, or once the baby comes out, only then will you see who she is THEN, and by then, she will have the government hammer on her side. You might be able to look at her ancenstry, mother, grandmother, sisters, friends and get some evidence, but NONE of that will be truth till the deed is done. You can test her a bit with joint monies for purchases to see how she handles having leverage over you, tell her how you prefer a room decorated and then give her money to do it and tell her to do it the way she feels is best and see if she remembers or cares to incorporate your desires. If she can’t be bothered to remember your blood red or royal blue color choice or desires of german pointer artwork, what does that say? You can test her loyalty in various ways as well. And this is very reasonable to do in light of what you are considering putting on the line.

        1. Thanks. Trust me, I have been testing (and not keeping it a secret that it is all a test). So far so good. I send her grocery shopping, she brings home what I like (without telling her) and usually an assortment of beers I didn’t ask for either, she’s the one who pushed for a GWP when we were looking for a joint dog (and encourages me to go hunting and goes to our gun dog group), etc. All good signs (which is why I am considering this one), but you are right. That ring and that kid are game changers.

        2. Those are good signs. If she’s always aiming to please with a smile and generous desire to do it b/c it makes you happy she’s a rare find. I got married at 38. My wife was tested all along during the dating phase ( she didn’t know it). One of the things she did every morning while we were dating was to bring me a fresh cup of coffee while I was still in bed. We’ve been married for 2 years now and she continues to do that – to this day. She’s a good one. They are out there

    1. Never get married or let a female move in with you, ever. You’re probably (check your state’s support laws) better off if she’s knocked up and you’re both still unmarried. The most, in many cases, you can be stuck with is the CS and insurance payments. Incidentals will come in there as well, but they would anyway.
      Contrast that with half the debt of a marriage, losing your house, a car, CS, insurance, life insurance paid to her, et al. Plus you likely won’t get VAWA’d if you weren’t married.
      I don’t even suggest kids, but if you really want them staying single (and never inviting the biatch into your home to live) is probably the safest way. CS in most states is a set percentage per child, and that’s far cheaper than paying for the woman’s lifestyle.

  7. I enjoy reading the comments with people who are saying don’t get married and are yet advocates for white culture and having a father in home. Let’s get this straight. No children= losing war to the cultural marxists. yes there’s a cost, but have 40 children and put them in some christian missionary school. or leave them as an issue for the welfare state. i’m not saying that i practice everything that i preach but having progeny which usually means getting married at least means you can preach to a willing audience.

    1. Exactly. This is a fight to restore the family structure and men;s rights to build a family

    2. Thigh actually the government wants you to have kids.
      More people to indoctrinate and tax.
      What makes you think your children are actually yours?

    3. The only way to change this system is to starve the beast. Women will not call for change until they feel the pain. The politicians will do nothing that the women don’t want. Only by forcing women into the childless spinster cat lady mode in large numbers will women start to feel the pain. So, you a-holes saying just fight the system by getting married and having kids (under present conditions) are useful fools for the divorce industry.

    1. This made me flash back to last year when a bride of 8 days pushed her husband off a cliff at Glacier National Park. Her friends said “she wanted to GET married, not BE married.” Her poor husband was a real fall guy! Gives a whole new meaning to “pushy women”

      2. I have thought this for a long time Ray.
        I always assumed that Actors had no soul which is why they can take on different characters so well. Have you ever heard Al Paccino or Keifer Southerland talk without having a script, motive and drive prearranged? They are literally tabula rasa without a script.
        I have started to suspect women are like this (maybe this is why they have such an obsession with entertainment news and award shoes etc). Toward the beginning a woman simply dons a mask playing the role of being everything you want her to be. This lures you into a sense that she is just right for you.
        Then, as time and familiarity take their toll, she becomes someone else. Many men think that this is their “true self.” I am starting to think it is simply that they are wearing another guise for another reason and you no longer fit into their script.
        When, in their mind, the script was Casablanca they were Ilsa and you were Rick and everything was perfect.
        Unlike them, you are a person with a sense of self. So as they change into their next character you remain who you were and all of a sudden, in their head, their is a dissonant character in their new movie. That would be you. So you get treated as an outsider because, in the little narrative they have created in their mind, you are a dissonant chord.
        I am not sure what leads to this. My initial thought is that our modern world, in removing women from the responsibility of actually being women they have their prime motivator removed. They can’t be nurturing, caring helpers to strong men any more so they just flit in and out of different characters.

        1. really great comment about the emptiness of actors.
          How do you feel about comedians though? I mean the best of them? arent they the antithesis of actors?
          Hard to imagine only a few hundred years ago, the best a guy like george carlin could achieve was to be a court jester, dressed in motley for the royal court…

        2. The key is to keep them in that ‘cute angel’ phase as long as you can. Dangle the carrot in front of her but always keep her running. As long as there is a fear in her mind that you could leave any time you want without any consequences for you, she’ll play nice.
          Unfortunately, a lot of men do the exact opposite of this by marrying. Once you marry you’re basically telling her she does not need to invest any more effort into keeping you around. So she doesn’t. Women aren’t evil for the sake of being evil, they’re just ruthlessly pragmatic.

        3. George Carlin as jester? Nope, he would have been a philosopher. A damned good one too.
          The only reason someone like GC had to be a comedian in this day and age is because people don’t read philosophy anymore.

  9. I will speak from experience on this issue as its been my world since 2008. GET A SECOND PASSPORT. If children are involved and you smell a breakup coming start the process NOW. There will never be a better friend in the world then another country with laws that are not as draconian as the U.S. family and federal court system. If you are based in the U.S. do know that ANY other country will be a better deal as the U.S. has the WORST system on planet Earth. I know of no other country that can legally jail you forever for non-payment of child support no matter the reason for failing to pay it. Yes the maximum is 6 months for contempt – look up the term “recycled” to find out what happens at the end of those six months.
    With a second passport you can hide funds abroad and have an escape if you need it. The passport today is basically a slave masters permission for travel and massa can revoke that privilege at any time for any reason. Revocation actually takes quite a bit of effort. It is not automatic yet but the passport denial program is automatic and if you are abroad with a U.S. passport and you lose it or need more pages you are screwed. You will be issued a one way travel document that is only good for entering the U.S. This travel document might as well say “ARREST ME NOW!!!” which is exactly what is going to happen to you if you go through customs wielding it.
    With a second passport you can put a new level of difficulty and obfuscation between you and the cruelest massa on Earth. Coming after you through a different country – even a Western country – is difficult and will take effort and a lot of work. Governments hate work that’s why they automate tyranny. Stopping you working with a new 2nd passport in a 3rd country is really a lot of work and they won’t bother unless millions are involved. This is the freedom chit you can pull out if all else fails. As your second passport is the property of your new host country the U.S. family courts can’t legally seize it to prevent you from leaving as they can a U.S. passport (they’ll try it but go ahead and report it stolen at the embassy and you’ll get another – f.u. family court!)

    1. And how exactly does a US citizen get a second passport from another country? And if you’re talking 2 US passports, that’s still useless as the gubment can cancel them both.

      1. You look it up. You use google and do the research. You find out what countries *do* grant second citizenship and how it can be obtained. You start the process before the breakup happens and ideally before you are married with children in the first place.

      3. Typically through living and contributing to another country for a specified period of time (ie 2 years), investing a substantial amount of money or starting a business in said company, proving ancestry to that country, religious affiliation (I think all Jews can become Israeli citizens), or by simply applying for a long term residency and then later applying for citizenship.

  10. I have been married and divorced. I’m older than most here. I made a good 6 figure salary and provided a great deal of talent to our society. I’m divorced and do not provide my talents anymore. I’m a broken man as far as tax collection goes. Marriage is nothing more than a contract between you and the state to support a women for the rest of her life. Men, young men, do not do this. I could go on, but I will only add, that the pain and economic loss is not worth any of the benefits.

    1. If you feel like sharing, how’d your kids turn out dealing with the whole divorce thing? I’ve heard anecdotes about kids that turn against the money grubbing wife and kids that support it.

      1. If you have a boy, he will understand when he grows up and will be faced with the same situation. If you have a girl.. well, girls will be women and if you can give her money then, you’re good. So I think overall it’ll be OK.

    2. Good luck brother – I feel for you. I had to leave the country to be free and lost everything (friends, family, house, children, heck she even shot my dog – true story!). I understand. If you have any way of getting out of the U.S. and staying abroad do it. You will be happier literally anywhere else.

    3. Marriage: A contract between a man and the state to support a women for ever.
      Well said. Never thought of it that way but it is now true. Must be changed.
      I can at least a little now imagine what this is like for you. Very sorry. And really ticked off too.

    4. “Marriage is nothing more than a contract between you and the state to support a women for the rest of her life.”
      This is the money quote. Men should tell this to any woman demanding marriage.

  11. Where is the user “truth.”
    I love his comments on marriage and women. Its hilarious because he tells the truth on so many issues. Like the article on the decimation of western women.

  12. To the guys with the “don’t get married” comments. Some of us get married because we actually want families and that was the only way to find a normal girl to do it with. Or we are religious and have important cultural ties to our communities, or we are already married by the time we heard your wisdom.
    This article is for those men, not the brilliant geniuses such as yourselves who realized the truth long before the rest of us.

  13. That’s fine if you are, and I do wish you the best of luck. The thing to remember is that you should guard yourself. For those that are unmarried, it means don’t do it if you can avoid it.
    I have friends, statistical anomalies, that have been married for a couple decades. It is possible, if unlikely, to have a successful marriage. However, warning younger men that avoiding it is the safer option is something that should be done.

    1. If the divorce rate is 40-50%, doesn’t that mean a 50-60% success rate? A majority is not be definition a statistical anomaly.

        1. Very true. So let’s assume that bumps the number up to 70-75%. The question becomes can a man give himself enough knowledge, strength and wisdom to beat 1 in 4 odds or is it all just a crap shoot.

        2. AWALT.
          You have much better odds playing Russian roulette – only 1 bullet in 8 chambers.

        3. So how have people made it work in the past? Obviously somebody has figured it out along the way.

        4. The present realities are vastly different from those of the past. Laws aren’t static, incentives aren’t static, economies aren’t static, technology isn’t static.

        5. In the past there was social shaming of divorce. In my grandmothers era, a divorced woman *could* remarry, but she had better have a good story about what went wrong with #1 or she will be shunned in social circles.
          In the past, our shallow, materialistic culture had not devolved as far as it has today. I am a liberal open minded person, but the level of filth in music, film, art, etc. today disgusts me. Would you really be comfortable with your child listening to Miley Cyrus and rap music and being around promiscuous friends who lose their virginity in middle school? And then there is the perverse immoral government. There are simply too many factors working against you to make marriage work in almost all cases in the US.

        8. It’s all just a cohencidence. This is all happening by accident. Go back to sleep.
          We’re from the government, we’re here to help.

        9. your happiness level returns to that of when you were single within 2 years of an exciting new relationship, in a really good case, other than the sex there is no further benefit afterwards, these results are confirmed with neuroscience brain scans, and overall happiness tests
          in terms of life satisfaction… marriage is poor value for the amount of energy , time and risk it takes

  14. People (especially men) need to realise this now more than ever:
    THE WORLD DOES NOT CATER TO MARRIAGE OR HAVING CHILDREN.
    I mean fuck, when are you guys gonna wake up? You see all the crazy shit happening with divorces and women fucking up the lives of guys. You see the number of jobs disappearing everyday, where your kids have no future.
    What will it take?

        1. Not sure. I’d start with uphold your values, find a decent woman to make babies with, be a leader in your community and profession and share your wisdom and knowledge.
          Very sure “stop propagating the species” is not going to work though.

        2. ” I’d start with uphold your values, find a decent woman to make babies with, be a leader in your community and profession and share your wisdom and knowledge.”
          Assassins’ bullets tend to start looking for you when you do that sort of thing. 😀

        3. You got PLENTY of sensible advise from the RedPills guys here…..
          1.DON’T GET MARRIED
          2.DON’T COHABITATE
          Some people will simply not listen to advise and need to make the mistake themselves….some not even then!
          So go ahead and do as you wish and get married to a western woman……I can GUARANTEE that you will be back to this website soon….broke, bitter and divorced.

        4. Great another gallant white knight unicorn hunter here to save the human race.
          Hey genius. When your woman takes your kids hell become another single mom statistic. So unless you’re able to give me tomorrow’s lottery numbers you have no idea whether or not your unicorn will stay a unicorn

        7. How about live on a boat. Bitches sometimes run off with the pool boy. Sometimes they fall overboard with a cinder block. Who can tell?

    2. “THE WORLD DOES NOT CATER TO MARRIAGE OR HAVING CHILDREN.”
      in the United States or in any country affiliated with the United States.
      fixed it for you.

      1. “THE WORLD DOES NOT CATER TO MARRIAGE OR HAVING CHILDREN.”
        “THE WORLD DOES NOT CATER TO MARRIAGE OR HAVING CHILDREN….IF YOU ARE A MAN”
        fixed it for you.

  15. Okay. Nice and 2 good points in 4, but 2 bad points.
    I am not familiar with US divorce law, but let me try an alternative:
    [I assume she left him, and my advice is for men. If otherwise: Keep your shit together, dickhead. If you feel offended by any of the points, stop reading. It’s not meant for you]
    (1) Paradigm
    (a) It’s a fucking divorce, it IS personal. It’s as personal as it can get. You did love that woman, right? Ok, she obviously DID NOT. No, not “does not any more”, she never did. But “you changed”? She changed too, right? No excuse available. She lied when she
    said “yes”, no discussion necessary. So turn that deep feeling of
    love you still have into hate. Just hate her. She deserves it – you basically still love her, right? Well, she doesn’t, and (as shown) never did. So – fuck her (not literally).
    (b) It’s not a game, it’s your life on the table. And the game being played is the game of your life, which, if it goes to court, you only have the options to lose badly or really badly.
    2. Morals
    Morals dictate that you keep your word. Like in “ever after”. She obviously did not. So fuck morals.
    3. Learn the rules
    If you have children, and you are willing to sacrifice literally everything to still see your children, stop reading here. Even with the nicest ex-wife (and her lawyer) that will be your end result. So, if you do, do not listen to me. For your children. Otherwise: You’ll get fucked over hard. Your children will be used against you. You can
    arrange weekend visits and generous alimony payments, but if your ex tells you to go fuck yourself instead of standing up to that agreement (with her not having a history of standing up to agreements with you) exacly NOTHING will happen. If you enjoy spending billions on lawyers, go ahead, but the end result you will not like.
    4. Do something
    If you want to continue living where you do, “starve her of her funds” is very difficult. It’s a better idea to leave anyway, because you’ll be better off elsewhere anyway. So, do prepare for that.
    So, what really to do not to get divorce raped?
    a. Avoid children. You love them, but they are just a weapon against you. A man would sacrifice himself for his children, a woman would just expect her man to do so. If that’s too late or not
    in your life plan, prepare to either sacrifice yourself on her whims or
    alienating your children (you can fairly blame that on the state and her).
    b. Have one bank account she does not know about. It should contain some money, if you have money. If you don’t, change
    that.
    c. If you learn of divorce plans, immediately change all other banking arrangements to “nonexistent”. I.e., cancel credit cards (report stolen if necessary, but avoid legal consequences), wife’s acccess to bank account etc. Withdraw any existent assets
    in cash. Put cash somewhere safe (like your old friend you haven’t seen in years because she thought he hated her (and was right)).
    d. Quit your job for psychological reasons. I.e., see a psychologist. He – and even more probably she – will give you a reason to get fired. It’s a long time till the hearings in court, and you cannot expect an unemployed, psycho fuck to pay alimony, right?
    e. Leave for someplace nice and 3rd world. Hopefully, you still have some money to start with and do have skills that are worth something to someone elsewhere. If you don’t, consider
    yourself fucked.
    Bonus tip: To prepare for this situation, read this list to your future wife. If she does not think you are for real, do not marry. If you are already married, and she is objecting, start with (a). I am married 8 years with my teenage gf of another 7 years, and she did not even look shocked.
    [If you do have children ad read to this point anyway: Mommy will have taught the children to hate you (her having nothing better to do). But you’ll probably have enogh money to fund their college eductation, so that will be your chance to reunite with the kids. Tell them the truth. They are adults, too, then. You can only hope they do understand. If they don’t, blame the state and mommy. You did what was best for you, and if they didn’t even learn to be nice for personal advantage, you could as well burn the college money.]
    Btw: Same problem with leftists: I’d rather light a cigarette with a 100€-Bill once a week intead of giving the same amount to state-mandated healthcare, which is spending the money telling me smoking is bad for my health, which I already know. If I did need the money for healthcare, I could just use my lighter. Or – even better – save the money and get the best healthcare available if I need it (which, fairly, would probably be in Germany and my mandatory payments are contributing to this fact/assumption).

    1. Withdraw all the available cash, as you said, load up the credit cards to the hilt, get as many loans as possible (if you can have her on the loans even better) and while still married declare bankruptcy and then skip town. Let HER deal with the mess…
      Drag the divorce as long as you can, and in the mean time pay her nothing (the courts can’t do shit until it’s all final). Starve her of money, etc.
      Quit your job too so you’ll show up as an unemployed bum in court.. A mental certificate will help too.

  16. These stories and the injustice to men makes me bloody livid.
    It is so disgusting, this is enslavement and exploitation.

    1. Ever wondered why there is no jury in Family Court?.. And since when, based on WHAT data does the child go to the mother by default? Who the fuck came up with this?

      1. moms historically get the kids bc the dad made more; court gets a cut of alimony/child support(think of it like that 2-3% merchant fee on a credit card). If dad got the kids, the courts wouldnt get the skim. imagine how much skim has added up over the past 40 yrs? The mob would be proud.

        2. Actually for most of human history the father got custody by default. This changed in the US in the late 1800s with the “Tender Years” doctrine. My grandmother got divorced in 1912 and lost complete custody of her daughter. My mother only learned she had an older sister when she was going through her mother’s papers after her death. This was the norm until after WWII. So, no, default mother custody was not the historic norm and has only been put in place fairly recently.
          However, this does not invalidate your statement that this is all a scam. The bureaucracies that run the CS scam make a good profit off every dime of CS they can squeeze from men. There are a lot of female office workers, social workers, and other court ordered facilitators that make a tidy living off the divorce industry. It isn’t only the lawyers. If it were just the lawyers there would be some hope of change. The government is in it for the money and up to their elbows. Gundog is loco if he thinks any of us have a ghost of a chance of changing anything short of total financial collapse of the country (which is likely in the not too distant future).

        4. You mean since 1969, which I count as recent not historical, but then I am old and remember 1969.

      2. They give custody to the women because it will fuck the kids up. That’s more alcohol and antidepressant sales.

  17. She’s got her online dating profile up several months before the divorce is “finalized”. Pre-marketing herself for riding the cock carousel.

  18. 1. empty bank accounts and keep everything as cash
    2. talk about moving house but suggest renting between moves, once the house is sold empty the account and take it as cash
    3. take out joint loans and get the money out as cash
    4. sell the car and any other assets and then take the cash out the bank
    5. claim you lost all the money gambling
    6. leave the country and move out of reach
    7. If when you meet you already both own your own properties, keep your own properties. The biggest problem with divorce and separation is when the man has to leave at at the age of 50 finds himself renting a room, while if he kept his original property that he had when he met his partner he could have just moved back there instead.

  19. As everybody else has already pointed out:
    1. Don’t get married
    2. Don’t get married
    3. Don’t get married
    4. Don’t get married
    But some men will never learn. I have a buddy that’s on his fifth marriage. He thinks he has found the unicorn. That was 4 months ago. The cracks are already showing.

    1. “I have a buddy that’s on his fifth marriage”
      He must be using some industrial grade baby powder to keep his ass manageable after all the divorce rape he went through.

      1. Lmao! He has that Ass-tro Glide. When he gets raped it’s like he feels nothing at all!

        1. Twice divorced and currently married for the fourth time (one wife died). Once you have been raped enough times, there is little left to take from you. I have had a vasectomy, and my six kids are all grown adults. So, my future is child support free. My retirement funds are from accounts put in place long before this last marriage, and secure with specific clauses in the prior divorce settlements. The divorce settlements are meaningless if the woman wants to reopen the can of worms, but that would make their retirements subject to seizure as well. At this point that uncertainty on their part makes my retirement fairly out of bounds. So, the cost benefits analysis of marriage changes. Besides, those cute 25 year old virgin Filipinas are hard to turn down.

        2. Sounds like you have placed a solid security plan for yourself. You’re a brave soul for trying marriage as often as you did. Odds are high if I do the marriage thing, and since I want kids at some point it is an option, I’ll have to access far more Dark Triad tendencies than I have thus far. And on those 25 year old Filipinas? I am right there with you. And they treat you nice all the time. Nothing like being with a feminine woman.

        1. Perhaps two if you really want a family. For the life of me though, I never understood how people convince themselves, let alone the other person, “hey, I know I’ve been married 2,3,4 times but really think YOU’RE THE ONE”. You’d think they would realize they were a horrible judge of character.

        2. Statistically, people who divorce are MORE likely to marry than average. It makes no sense, but those are the stats.

        6. Yep, sounds correct. I couldn’t attribute nor quite remember the exact wording, so I went with the paraphrase and let’er rip!

        7. I decided to look it up. You are actually correct. The quote is of Samuel Johnson via Boswell;
          “On second marriages: “The triumph of hope over experience.”

    3. We have to look at this fight as a David vs Goliath situation. Too many men are just gone. Totally feminized and have zero ability to live without vaginal attention. Never mind them, let them sink with the ship.

    4. Eh, but to be fair, the common element in all five marriages was *him*. Some guys are simply their own worst enemy.

      1. As someone on his fourth marriage, let me propose that there is the possibility, no matter how remote, of having learned from past mistakes.

      2. He is simply one of those “I always have someone in my life. I wouldn’t know what to do without one.” Two cheated on him. But may be you are right. How do you stop these kind of guys?
        I have another buddy that got butt rape in divorce court. Now he is getting ready to propose to another woman. He has two kids with two different women.–Tried to talk him out of it, but to no avail. Cut my loss, and let him be? Some of us just never learn.

        1. There is no point in trying to move an immovable object. When they finally have enough, if that happens, they’ll find you again and then you can instruct them. Until then it’s a pointless endevour. I spent almost 2 years trying to talk a very upright alpha type of guy out of marriage, who was strictly anti-marriage, but then became convinced he found “the one”. It was like trying to make the wind blow in a different direction. He will learn, or he won’t, but nothing I say will make a difference at this point, so I cut my losses.

  20. 1. Make sure you have an alibi for the night of her disapperance.
    2. Make sure you have an alibi for the night of her disapperance.
    3. Make sure you have an alibi for the night of her disapperance.

  21. “Men who feel that their lives are over after a divorce are usually those whose lives were over before their divorce.”
    10/10 would quote.

  22. 5. Prepare to fight dirty. Don’t assume that acting honorably will help curry favor with family law judges or the ex. This can be tricky with kids because ideally you want to keep them out of it. But make no mistake, that bitch will use every dirty trick she can to fuck you over. Whatever nuclear option you have, you had better prepare to use it.

    2. “Whatever nuclear option you have, you had better prepare to use it.”
      A thousand times seconded

    3. Indeed. Lawyers make it a point to weaponize the female against you, even if she initially was fine with an amicable settlement and a no-fight divorce. If anybody has seen “Liar, Liar!” with Jim Carey, the scene near the beginning where he convinces a cheating whore that she’s the victim and should sue the living shit out of her real-victim, good father husband has seen a glimpse into how the process actually works. It seems like fiction, but it’s not, and many of us have seen many men destroyed by women who go full legal psycho the moment she gets in contact with her lawyer.
      And most of these lawyers are men. I hope that their testicles are seared off with burning chemicals that leave a permanent painful lesion.

  23. Governments has to get out of the Marriage and divorce business, let couples marry based upon their own contracts and if necessary end it without bias. Governments and Religions are destroying mating calls designed by nature.

    1. A simple and true statement. They have no business in the romantic lives of the population. A contract of marriage isn’t even really between man and woman. It’s a contract with the state-it’s called a marriage LICENSE which tells you a lot. Hell they even subsidize it in many ways. I’m waiting for the “bachelor tax” you hear about as a way to further penalize and shame people into marrying even if they’re not interested.

    1. Ain’t seen my wife in two or three years, I’m a happily married man.
      Since she left I’ve been running wild, jumping all the women I can
      Well it gave me a problem for a little while, but now I’m back to my old style
      Yes I ain’t seen my wife in two or three years, I’m a happily married man

      1. You need to become a happily divorced man ASAP. You are living with a ticking time bomb. My recommendation is to get it defused now. Just one example of the downside of your situation is what happens if she gets pregnant in the interim? Guess what, you are on the hook for CS because any child born in wedlock is legally presumed to be the financial responsibility of the husband. The fact that you are not the father will make zero legal difference. There are so many cases of this kind of crap that I just ask you to google it.

        1. I think these are lyrics from some honkytonk roadhouse country song or something…

  25. Cut through the bullshit. Give that cunt whatever she wants property-wise and seek liberal visitation with your kids, if any, if not full residential-custodian status. Then, move on with your life. You’ll be fine. After all, you’re a man. (And hopefully one who has now ingested the red pill.) You will be better and “fly higher” than you ever did before.
    She, on the other hand (parasite that she is), will find another host to glom onto and suck dry until the cycle repeats itself with the next poor bastard in line.

    1. Extensive research has shown that men do better (health, emotional, financially,societal, etc) after divorce compared to women.

    2. I wouldn’t say whatever she wants property wise, because that’s what her lawyers are counting on, your easy folding. However, putting up a battle over a set of Jarts or something equally as trivial is stupid and a waste of money and resources as well.
      Pick your battles.

      1. Your point is well taken. But, while I agree that it’s better to pick your battles in theory, in practice, it’s been my experience that it costs so much to fight over whether and the proportion by which marital assets are divided between the parties that it just isn’t worth it. That cost either comes in the form of money for your attorney (and possibly hers), or your time and money if you give it a go pro se as you’ll likely be losing wages by taking time off of work to appear in court .
        Either way, I think if the man is resilient enough, whatever he gives up in the short term can be a mere drop in the bucket depending on how quickly he pulls himself up off the canvas and prepares for round 2 of his life.

  26. This article deals with what to do once divorce is imminent. The best 2 ways to avoid this are 1) as everyone on here has said don’t get married or 2) choose very very carefully who you get married to.
    Some % of marriages work out. I believe some women are simply better than the majority of whores and bitches out there. By better I don’t mean hotter, likes your type of movies, watches sport, or is a gourmet cook. I mean genuinely kind, loyal, feminine, empathetic and selfless. If you can find one of these type of women then you have a good chance of being one of the % who stay married.
    And I say that because I’m planning on getting married one day.

    1. “And I say that because I’m planning on getting married one day….”
      You will simply become ANOTHER poor, divorced and bitter man.
      “I believe some women are simply better than the majority of whores and bitches out there….”
      NAWALT anyone?
      “If you can find one of these type of women then you have a good chance of being one of the % who stay married…”
      The West has changed a LOT since the 50’s dude….unconstrained hypergamy has changed the rules…..and if you refuse to listen then you will simply become that guy that pays the alimony to the bitch every month.

      1. Yeah man. I’ve got that response on here before. Thanks for the warning, but it still don’t put me off.
        I’m 25, I’m well aware how the West has changed. So the odds are against me, so what. I want to have kids, I want to raise my kids in a marriage.
        I’m not running scared because feminism made it harder for me to do stuff that’s important to me. I’m not giving up on marriage and kids, why should I, my genetic material is awesome. Feminists would love guys like me to listen to your advice and not breed. Then they can take over the future with their IVF eggs and donated sperm from some pathetic wanker.
        I want my kids out there calling them on their bullshit, otherwise how else does anything get better? Not by stepping down and saying hey let’s not breed at all. Sounds like surrender to me.
        As for NAWALT, well I don’t plan to be banging sluts my whole life. Maybe the decent girls really don’t exist. Maybe they do. But if you don’t even believe in the possibility of them, then you’ll never find one will you.

        1. Yeah have fun living out of your car while your humanity saving offspring becomes another product of a single mother.
          By the way, the government and feminists want you to breed. Another serf to indoctrinate and tax.

        2. I wasn’t indoctrinated, neither will my kids be. Weak personalities are indoctrinated, that shit’s mostly genetic. And my kids might be the government of the future. At the very least they’ll be in the running. Yours won’t, they won’t exist.

        3. Prove that your future wife won’t ever divorce you and I’ll believe the rest of your fantasy.

        4. I’m with you. I’m 35 and finally thinking about settling down. I like raising and training creatures so I think children would be fun, but I’m being very cautious and evaluating the potential wife/mother carefully (going on three years now).
          I fucking hate the whole government/legal ramifications of marriage, but I may give it whirl regardless.

        6. You can’t prove anything will happen to you in your life, but this shouldn’t stop you going after what you really want. Just have your eyes open, plan carefully and be aware of pitfalls.

        7. Well all the best to you. And I mean that. You have all the info and the escape plans should anything go wrong.

        8. Last famous words. Protip: You lose all your power in a relationship when you marry in the U.S. Move in together, have pets, kids, vacations, etc, but you become beta-through-government the second you marry.

    1. Agreed, but the cancer is spreading in most countries. Now just living together for more than 2 years under one roof gives a woman automatic rights as a de facto wife. Things have got that shitty. Rent don’t buy, you’ll end up with the Mortgage and out on the street….

        1. That’s fucking insane. Common law marriage used to be somewhere around 7 to 10 years, back in my day. Of course I don’t live in Canada, but the whole concept of common law marriage is common amongst all British colonies since it was a part of English common law for centuries.

        2. Insane indeed. My brother woke up last March to find out he now fell under marriage law with his live in gf. Oops? Funny how the state can change these things literally overnight with little discussion with the public.

        3. I had a co-worker that had lived with a woman in Louisiana for 6 months before breaking up with her and moving to Alabama. He got hauled into divorce court and had to spend about $20,000 to get out from under. There were no kids and she wasn’t pregnant. The significance is that Louisiana law is the only state law not based on English common law; it is based on the Napoleonic code.

        4. Yeah, Lou-san is fucked up in a lot of ways. Great with regards to gun laws, and fun parties at certain times of the year, but you couldn’t pay me to live there.

    1. All the articles are great here. And even on the really bad ones, the comment sections make them good. I love ROK

      1. Disagree. The “really bad ones” are nothing more than clickbait, and are just as deplorable as that of any other site.

  29. There is still a staggeringly high number of foreign men who perceive US as a free land of opportunity, only to find out too late that as soon as they walk into that toxic continent they become a helpless instrument of the oppressive state that sucks their blood like a vampire. Please understand that if as a man you are dumb enough to set foot into America, you will have no friends but a plethora of enemies from whistle blowing neighbors and cyber surveillance to false accusation psycho females and anti male work place politics. The entire continent is designed as hunting grounds where a masculine and productive man is forced to come to terms with the fact that he will be treated and hunted down as a most prized prey in every aspect of life every single day.
    The salvation and true liberty in the world can only begin if the highest quality men simply choose to immigrate away from (if they are Americans in the first place) and absolutely refuse to even show up in that poisonous continent called America, and just let the toxic wasteland rot like an abandoned insane asylum, although it’s almost guaranteed the rotten United States will make one last desperate stand by kindling a Third World War in that case…

    1. I see where you’re coming from, but moving away won’t help. The U.S. IS toxic, but it’s also the most heavily armed military force in human history backed by a feminist government which has no problems bombing places to shit simply because the leadership here is bored.
      If you flee to Somewhereistan, and the U.S. starts strong arming the country (and it will, eventually) you change from “friendly expat we all enjoy talking to” into “the foreigner from the land that is killing our sons and daughters”. You become the outsider, “Them”, the alien presence.
      End game, I think, has to be secession. All of the decent, high quality men who are not leftists move out West where the political climate favors them heavily, and then vote themselves out of the involuntary “union”. If voting fails, well, at least you’ll be fighting for something meaningful.
      Dunno man.

      1. I think the end game is just not playing. I hate to say this as a man who will be hitting the eject button shortly, but for the young men (my sons included) the only way to win the game is not to play. When the majority of the men, and almost all men with assets, simple have no marriage, no cohabitation, and no children (Gandarusa anyone) then what will the women want next? They will double down on their misandry and try more and more draconian laws to force men to knuckle under. They will become so transparently tyrannical that their fig leaf of “it is all about equality” will be shorn away. More and more women will start to see that feminism and the 100% bias in favor of women actually destroys their lives.
        If this doesn’t work on its own then the next step is just barely work. Get on the gravy train of handouts or work only under the table. Refuse to participate in a game that plays you for the sucker eternally. When the women are busy leaning in and paying the taxes that support Suzy “the
        Slut” Singlemom, then their collective attitudes will change.
        Essentially the entire country will become what the black ghetto is today. Men will be shiftless and criminal to survive and women will all be single and feral and dependent on the government (BDG). Who will be paying the bills?

        1. The thing is, lots of us, even non-alphas, are well aware that the inner city black community was the testing grounds for all of this bullshit, and know the steps that got them where they are today.
          Hearing a lot more secession talk, openly, out in real life now than I ever have in my life prior, and I was stationed in Texas at one time which is *rife* with secessionists with a burr under their saddle.

        1. One hopes. My money is on the West in general following suit if that happens. The corridor between Texas and North Dakota, west to Idaho.

        2. Texas is too big to secede first. Vermont is a good bet, or New Hampshire with the Free State project, or one of the less populous western states, maybe Utah so they can have plural marriage. But any state with 10s of millions is gonna be way deep up the asshole of the feds. The best Texas could hope for is part of the state splitting off.

      3. Climate wise, the USA is fairly uncomfortable to me. California is nice, but come on, there is no changing California and its 40 million residents. I much prefer the climate of Latin / South America, the great fresh food you can get, and the women there. There are rather large expat communities where you can live a life very similar to the USA if you want that, or you can live like the locals.
        I’m in the US due to inertia, but I think it is a waste of time to fight for secession, a new politician, a new law, etc. Just move somewhere that is freer and live your life there. There is always the risk of America killing you, but usually you can get a whiff of that in time to do something about it. IE I would stay away from Mexico, El Salvador, Honduras and Argentina at the moment but anywhere else in the Americas is very safe. I used to believe in secession but if I were starting an ideal country from scratch it would not be geographically located in the USA. Plus I have this dream of being like the Sean Connery / Michael Caine team of The Men Who Would Be King and reorganizing my own society down there. A heck of a lot easier than educating and organizing Americans.

  30. Don’t marry a party girl
    Don’t marry a girl with more than 1 sexual partner. You don’t want to be the first. Just infinately better than the first.
    Marry a girl from a richer family than yours
    Don’t just marry the hottest girl you can. That never ends well

    2. 1. Married a non-party girl – check
      2. Married an inexperienced farm girl – check
      3. Married a girl from a family that was poorer than mine, which actually was a benefit given as I myself at the time was on my own and scraping by. She didn’t come in with financial expectations, which actually is the same point as marrying a rich girl, so it’s a wash.
      4. Married an extremely hot girl – but this was back before social media from the ancient times of the late 1980’s, so hot chicks, especially farmer’s daughter F1 generation new arrival Americans were still modest and pleasant.

      1. I bet since this was a rural area in the 80s, she did not have MTV either- another positive.

        1. A safe bet since I’ve mentioned it many times.
          An Ohio farmer’s daughter, who actually lived on the farm, with family originally from Germany. Grandparents were fluent in German, and very old school strict Lutheran.
          Girl can cook like you would not believe. And her pastry baking is second to none.

        3. She’s not big on it actually. She does have a FB page that she looks at once or twice a week for a few minutes, and the posts are nearly all either direct family (aunts, cousins) or former “bff’s” chicks from high school that post to her maybe once a year, tops.
          Her iPhone is for texting the kids, checking the weather and getting directions. It lay on the kitchen isle most of the time when she’s home and off doing something else.
          There are still people who are not sucked into the mind void of social media, thankfully.

        4. If what you are saying is true, I have to admire her restraint. Have you ever asked her where this strength comes from? And if Im asking too personal a request, I apologize…

        5. What I’m saying is true. She’s just more focused on real life than fantasy. I suspect it comes from her no nonsense, practical upbringing where fluff was belittled and mocked as idiotic and unnecessary by her father, mother and grandparents. You normally never really outgrow your upbringing and experiences from youth, I figure.

      2. Good stuff
        A lot of guys make the mistake of proposing to a girl just because she’s the hottest girl they’ve had.
        I call thinking like this by a certain name – suicide.
        Marry a hot girl, yes. But don’t marry just because she’s the hottest you’ve had by a slim margin.

  31. Seriously consider moving to a non extradition country. Don’t let her get one cent. Save up enough money so that you can leave asap when she files.

    1. Not many of those left though, and the few that remain are basically hellholes. After 9/11, the U.S. went out to the international community and strong armed all of the former tax havens and non-extraditing safe countries into mutual “agreements” whereby the small country will extradite and the U.S. promises not to invade or cut them off from world trade (depending on the nation).
      Lots of things have changed for the expat since 9/11, none of it for the better I’m afraid.

      1. True but it’s better than being a slave and subsidizing kids you’ll never see again anyway and funding the ex wifes future cocks. Besides the money you saved will help you in those countries. Russia has no treaty. And they’ll probably take over the USA soon lol.

      2. I think Bolivia has no deal with the US yet. Maybe venezuela too haha

        1. I’m pretty sure Cuba has a no extradite policy there are over 300 wanted felons in Cuba.

    2. Vanuatu is a South Pacific island micro nation which has the worlds lowest incarceration rate per capita. Less than 10 per 100k population. (US has nearly 900) So basically NO LEGAL SYSTEM. It is not a member of interpol and does not have extradition to US. It is a group of several large volcanic islands with many smaller atolls and is inhabited by western expats mostly and the aboriginal ‘Vanu’ island tribe. It was formerly New Hebrides – old territory of New Zealand. Many old shipwrecks and fine scuba. It’s as close to Gilligan’s Island as one can find these days. I’ve posted before that this is the perfect place to raise a family. No family court or divorce rape industry there.

  32. Feeling the need to contribute some recent second hand experiences. A (female) friend of mine recently got divorced; they had been married twenty years. The husband had it all figured out in his mind how things SHOULD work out in a FAIR way. He even found a female lawyer to represent him in the divorce proceedings that agreed with him. The wife found a much better lawyer that was able to play the system. Result? The husband got absolutely raped: lost his kid, paying huge alimony, paying child support, lost his house, and lost half his pension.
    Moral of this story?
    It doesn’t matter who is ‘right’, just who has the better lawyer.

    2. Some of the reason’s women choose to divorce are ridiculous as well. I know of a woman who divorced because she felt she missed out on her party days because she got married and had kids young. So she divorced her husband to get back some of those missed years… I think the husband actually came out on top in this divorce , i’m pretty sure the judge looked at the wife’s reason for divorcing her husband and thought it an immature excuse. The divorce was from a family no one would have expected it from…She just got the bug to go and that was that .

    3. My major cock-up was marrying a lawyer. I picked a winner, and she won, hands down, when she hit the road.
      *********
      I married an artist the second time. That is working out well even after 19 years.

  34. “Don’t feel obliged to be open, generous, reasonable or honorable in the face of straight out theft.”
    I disagree with you insofar as I think a man should always be reasonable and honorable. But there is neither anything irrational nor dishonorable in obstructing an egregious mockery and miscarriage of justice.

    1. The only reason to be open, generous, reasonable and honorable is that you have integrity and decency. You have been slighted, but this too will pass. Best to make the best of a horrible situation and take it like a man.

  35. “4 Steps for Fighting Divorce Rape”
    Step 1: don’t get married
    Step 2: don’t get married
    Step 3: don’t get married
    Step 4: for the love of god don’t get fucking married
    She’s not the one, she’s not your soulmate, idc who the bitch is, at the first sign of trouble the cunt will hand you divorce papers and take as much shit as she can from you.

  36. Here’s the best thing to do: sell everything you own, clean out your bank account, convert it all to bitcoin, and fly to Thailand. You get to keep everything because they won’t extradite you, and you can use the dark webs to get a new US citizen identity if you ever want to come back. It doesn’t have to be Thailand though. Check the rules for the country you want- some give a shit about USA extradition, others don’t. If you don’t want to leave for some reason, either sell or mortgage all your assets and give all the money to trusted family members. Legally, your wife can’t get that money. The biggest problem, however, is alimony/child support. To get around this, you *must* leave the country. Do it. Your kids will be fine. Either the bitch will provide for them, or you’ll be able to blackmail her into giving them to you so they don’t starve to death. Frame it as if she’s fucking them over by keeping them away from you, and that she’s being the government backed asshole. Whatever you do, don’t let the bitch touch a dime of your hard earned money: she broke the law. Nearly every religion has a strict no divorce unless caught fucking someone else’s wife law. To hell with USA’s ‘law’. She fucked with God.

  37. In Canada, never co mingle inheritance. It is statistical that women plan and implement divorce over a 30 month period, here are the signs. She calls you on night shift around 10 pm, so you wont call back to bother her. Your best male friend, will seem to be around more than he ought to be. She will start to diminish her income, make vague small complaints about you, and start to squirrel the children to herself. She will become dismissive of all that is you, family, relatives, work, and friends. Be aware, dont make any moves, except to reduce your own income, spend more time with your children, even see your doctor, pre separation, about your depression, even get a note to go part-time. If you do this before she falsely charges you with domestic abuse and before she runs off with your best friend, you stand a chance. In canada, a whore can do what she wants, the law is crafted to absolve her of any responsibility. So you have move quietly, smartly, and to legally reduce your liabilities. Remember, she has already topped out her credit card and may have forged your name on another one and taken 50,000 cash and buried in a whole in pago pago. Always check your mail, and exit email, except for her accounts and hire a hacker to run through her like shit through a goose. Just dont get caught doing it. See all the problems you are going to have. This is just the start.

      1. Nope, good news, AIDS test was negative and in 1998 I became the first man to win his divorce outright in the Dominion of Canada. I got the house, the kids, my pension, investments, all future government benefits. I write from time to time what you need to do, in order to have the same out come. I know of only 4 other men since 1998 who have had the same outcome as me before Miglin v. Miglin from the supreme court. I was a trail blazer, if you want the full details, let me know. I am always around. But no Herpes, that was a 1980’s thing, or so I am told.

        1. You’re absolutely right about how the system is stacked in their favour .Good for you and God bless !

  38. I am going to post advice I gave someone a while back:
    *Time: The best and most valuable currency of all. You will need time to enact your plans. To not have planned and done this rashly and quickly will only cause you more harm than good.
    First-
    You need to get a PO box or another place for your mail to be sent. Stop the influx of mail for you and have it directed there- pay checks, tax stuff, pay stubs, credit card bills, bills and other items that are personal and revolve around money, assets and personal stuff.
    Second-
    Get a lawyer. You may be getting divorced but laws are laws and what was once written by man, is determined and manipulated by women. Get a lawyer (male) who specializes in men divorcing. And remember- you pay for what you get… go cheaply and well see the results.
    Three-
    start hiding your assets and actions. If she catches you on these
    websites, your in for it. If she even begins to suspect that you are
    escaping her clutches, before you hit the save button or pull the eject handle- your toast. You have one shot at your mission and escape, you better make it a kill shot and have multiple routes out of town.
    Four-
    You’ve got male friends? See if any of them have some storage space for some clothes, and some personal items and tell them what is going in small language at the moment- do not give them too much ammo, as all it takes is her blowing the friend and he squeals like a stuck pig.
    Five-
    Do not give her any idea of anything going on. And by God, get those finances settled or cleared up before the big bang!
    Six-
    use her jealousy against her. That is your greatest weapon and her down fall. Use a counseling session to end it. Say
    that your sorry and everything and all that in front of the counselor. After that, you have a witness and by law they could have to testify on both your behalf’s to keep their license. But consult the lawyer first, cause you want this to be air tight and able to get you out.
    Seven-
    scope out places to be able to go to in a jiff. A home of a good friend or another wise bachelor who could care less about your life as long as the room is paid for.
    Eight- construct a plan B, C and D. You need to come up with some contingencies. Hell, James Bond and every other spy does it. You do it too.
    Nine- once you plan begins and is
    engaged- DON’T CALL, TEXT, WRITE OR HAVE ANY FUCKING CONTACT!!!!!! Anything you say and do from that point on can be used against you. Change your phone, have a burn phone, have cash located somewhere safe where she can’t find it.
    Ten- move. I mean like several cities and maybe get a new job somewhere else. That will really change the scenery. Remember this if nothing else, your paying for your misery. Every dollar you make goes to this wench and her offspring. You are the one enabling her and her lifestyle. If you were to quit your job and
    have to move home with mom and dad for a few weeks (in theory or what you tell her you have to do…well….). Basically, don’t be afraid to lie and leave. Your paying for this now, but if you stay longer, you will be paying even more. Is your health, wealth, life and happiness worth it?
    Eleven-
    In the words of someone far wiser than I, ” You’ve never truly seen a woman, till you’ve seen her in court!”

    1. I never realized it until I read the last half of #6, but she had that counseling session all set up for similar purposes. She had me there on the pretense of working things out, otherwise I would never have agreed to go.
      **********
      There were two counselors present, a man and his wife. I could tell by their reactions that I was the only one in the room not in on what was happening.
      **********
      As soon as I realized that they had planned this session in collusion with my then-wife, I announced, “This is a set-up. I will not participate in this. I will be writing a letter to complain about your (the counselors’) behavior.”
      **********
      I stood up and walked out, stone cold. No door slamming, no screaming, no nothing.
      **********
      I did write a letter to the state, pointing out what were apparent violations of the code of ethics. I remember that one of the violations was failing to disclose the roles the counselors would play with respect to multiple clients, in short, they had a prior understanding with my then-wife that the break-up would occur during the session. They had ample opportunity at the start of the session, and they failed to disclose. There were at least two other failures to comply on their part as well.
      **********
      The counselors made numerous attempts to contact me for two months (also a violation), and the state called me for a phone interview regarding the session. I never knew the final outcome. I hope I made their deceitful lives miserable for at least a while.
      **********
      It is shit like that which keeps people who really need help from trusting therapists.

  39. The scariest class you will ever take is a course in Family Law in law school. Every man should own a Horn (text) Book with Cases on Family Law. The cases of men’s passports being confiscated and wages garnished alone will keep you up at night, shaking under your bed. Know the laws and statutes of your state jurisdiction. Honestly, the debt I incurred from attending law school was WORTH IT from the knowledge I gained about my rights.

    1. I like your posts- you should do so more often. Care to expand on your above post??

  40. I think all women read a book with a chapter dealing with this topic.
    ***********
    I know my first wife did. Of course she was an attorney. She probably taught the damned class.
    ***********
    This article is good advice to young men. In many ways I felt I ‘lost’ my divorce. I felt that way because she had a plan and I did not.
    ************
    Always have a plan. Hope you never need it. If things get rocky, begin quietly implementing the plan. Be a good husband, but don’t be a stupid sap in the face of your marriage breaking up.

  41. These are not steps to fighting divorce, these are ways in how you should approach life itself.

  42. When you are in a divorce (especially with custody involved) fight like there is no tomorrow. There will be loss and compromise but make that whore pay for every inch of territory the courts award to her.
    Then never get married again and start living your damn life. Remember they are the enemy and should only exist for your enjoyment.
    I’ve devoted the rest of my life to getting what I want out of women. 100% on my terms. Ya’ll should all do the same.

  43. It is a very difficult situation to be sure. Stare right down the gun barrel like a man, don’t flinch, get it over with, and get on with your living. It is not fair. You are playing against the house. But do not get angry or seek revenge other than living a better life.

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